CoSForums Archive - Lucius Malfoy's secret life!

Inkwolf

June 25th, 2003, 11:43 pm

Lestrange

June 26th, 2003, 12:35 am

That is one of the strangest theories I've ever heard, yet it's based on something. *in awe* ....As much as I love it, I can't help but think Blood traitors!, towards the Malfoys, since they were the ones had Harry lured to Voldemort in the first place....

.......*Hurries off to write it in with the Riccotta Cheese theory*

Inkwolf

June 26th, 2003, 12:50 am

But they want Haryy dead as well. (Remember, they don't know the prophecy!) Apart from which, they're still serving Voldemort while they have to.

Has it occurred to anyone that Lucius is building himself up in hopes of becoming the next Minister of Magic? All those donations and sucking ups, and hanging out at the ministry.

He won't get it, though, with people like Dumbledore and the famous Harry Potter opposing him, will he? There's nothing Lucius wouldn't do to get rid of Dumbles, Harry and the Weasleys....except spend his life serving Voldytoes.

Weatherby

June 26th, 2003, 1:35 am

I agree Lucius Malfoy has designs of his own. He always had his foot inbetween respectibilty and Voldemort.
But now that he's gone to prison his plans to be Minister of Magic may not happen. I agree that's occured to Lucius. Why else would he spend so much time working with Fudge. He didn't know Voldemort was coming back.

Endangered

June 26th, 2003, 8:17 am

DocHollidaywe

June 28th, 2003, 9:25 am

Im not sure Lucius is a spy for Dumbledore

Bexfizz

June 28th, 2003, 11:21 am

Remember it was Lucius who gave Voldemorts diary to Ginny hoping that he would return by becoming Tom Riddle again.

remus81

June 28th, 2003, 1:24 pm

That's right Bexfizz, and Lucious tried to attack Harry in CoS. He tried to attack Harry in OoTP. He put the order member under the imperius curse to make him try and steal the prophecy. MOST convincing however, is that he went to jail at the end of OoTP. Snape was saved from jail because he was a spy, one must assume that the same would be true for Lucius.

Veritaserum

June 28th, 2003, 1:42 pm

I don't know about that, Lucius is very close with Fudge. Maybe his money will save him again? I can't understand why Lucius doesn't HATE Snape if he was a spy for Dumbledore! I mean wouldn't you be PO'd if one of your fellow death eaters turned on you. There is definately something wierd going on between Snape and Lucius

Veritaserum

amy460

June 28th, 2003, 1:49 pm

Snape had the ability to block his mind so anyone trying to read it would only see what he wanted which is how he is spying. Voldermort probably thinks he has a spy stationed at Hogwarts and is gloating at that fact.

Voldermort just recently realized the link between he and Harry and I think that he could not yet see through Harry's mind but could plant things there when he was relaxed (sleeping) Dumbledore was afraid that even the slightest hint of Voldermort trying to get into his mind would be set off by looking into Dumbledore's eyes.

ChaliceInnana

June 28th, 2003, 2:34 pm

I like that theory! It makes sense, because I am pretty sure Voldemort would kill Snape on sight.

remus81

June 28th, 2003, 3:05 pm

Lucius doesn't know Snape is a spy and I doubt Voldie does either. Snape emptied his mind before Occulancy lessons so that Voldie couldn't get in through Harry and find out Snape was a spy. It wasn't his worst memory that was important to take out, it was the fact that he is a spy.

Inkwolf

June 28th, 2003, 3:46 pm

Okay, on Lucius and Riddle's diary: I don't think Lucius WAS trying to bring Voldemort back, just to discredit the Weaselys, as Dumbledore said. I think Lucius didn't realize the diary might have enough power to actually bring him back....and if he DID come back, he would have been a 16-year-old punk who Lucius wouldn't have much trouble dealing with.

As to attacking Harry....like I said, Lucius isn't a good guy. He isn;t on their side. He doesn't want the good guys to win. He doesn't want Voldemort to win, though, either.

Lucius wants Lucius to win, and the rest of the world can go to heck, as fast and as quietly as possible.

As to occulancy, and Voldemort knowing Snape is a spy--I don't care how empty Snape's mind is, if Voldemort looks out Harry's eyes and sees Snape teaching Harry to protect his mind from Voldemort, he's going to realize something's screwy!

remus81

June 28th, 2003, 4:17 pm

I don't know Inkwolf.... Snape is a teacher, and Dumbledore is his boss. He has to do what DD says. That could be his excuse.

Not to mention... Harry thought Snape was softening him up for Voldie. Snape could tell Voldie that he was. He didn't tell Harry how to block his mind, he just said, don't let me in. He made it clear that he wasn't being very helpful much at all.

I think he had some excuse.... but I digress, this is about Lucius, and I doubt he has anyone else in mind but himself, and he has proven himself to be the right hand man of Voldie, which makes him #2 instead of 1 in a million. I think that is his goal for now....

vickygirl4

June 28th, 2003, 7:40 pm

I think Lucius is not helping Snape or Dumbledore. But I don't think he's completely loyal to Voldemort either. The Malfoy's do what's best for themselves, they don't care about anything or anyone else. So if betraying Voldemort will be better for Lucius, I think he will do it.

IThinkNot

June 28th, 2003, 8:42 pm

I don't think Lucius is a spy. I think he is the (oblivious) person through which Snape is getting information. There is no way Snape could become a Death Eater once more, Voldemort is far too intelligent for that. Snape has abandoned that life and Voldemort knows this. Even so, Snape is somehow getting important information, and I think he is manipulating Lucius into telling him what he wants to know. Through Legimency, I think--- but also through psychology. To learn Occlumency Snape must have learned the human mind. I bet he would know all the right buttons to push, the best words to say, the exact way to make Lucius tell him what he shouldn't. For some people it's getting them drunk... for a few people it is the threat of exposure... for others, it is the promise of power. That's where Lucius comes in. I think Snape is giving Lucius subtle hints about how to become the Headmaster of Hogwarts, or the Minister of Magic. Lucius being the dealer he is, he thinks he is playing Snape, when Snape is actually playing him. See where this is going?

That was, officially, my first real theory.

rikuownsyou

June 28th, 2003, 9:07 pm

I think I could kinda see where he could be but it really is hard to say right now. I haven't really paid much attention to Malfoys dad becuase I hated him in the second book because..well just because. Know I have no attention on saying it but I don't but I don't think that he would be..why would he?

Inkwolf

June 28th, 2003, 9:45 pm

Why would Lucius want to be Headmaster of Hogwarts, though? His own kid graduates in two years. Being head of the school isn't that much a position of power, except in the eyes of students: see how easy it was for the Ministry to force out someone as powerful and popular as Dumbledore....

animagus1369

June 28th, 2003, 10:43 pm

Originally posted by Veritaserum (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=398708#post398708))
I don't know about that, Lucius is very close with Fudge. Maybe his money will save him again? I can't understand why Lucius doesn't HATE Snape if he was a spy for Dumbledore! I mean wouldn't you be PO'd if one of your fellow death eaters turned on you. There is definately something wierd going on between Snape and Lucius

Veritaserum

I think it's possible that Lucius and Fudge were getting together to plan the Ministry takeover of the whole Wizarding World. Come on, do you think a total git like Fudge would have thought of putting MoM teacher/inquisitor at Hogwarts on his own? I think Lucius is a kind of double-agent (okay, maybe one-and-a-half agent) who was positioning himself to get the Ministry onto Hogwarts and interfere with Dumbledore, then once DD was out of the way, he would knock Fudge off his little throne and hand over the MoM to Voldemort.

Demona Snape

June 29th, 2003, 4:47 am

I could see Lucious having his own power trip but for the theory to suceed we would have to assume that he isn't afraid of backlash from Voldemort should he find out that Malfoy has his own agenda going.

Other than that I love the theory.

bwaybound83

June 29th, 2003, 4:53 am

The Malfoy's as a whole strike me as odd. For some reason I have a strange feeling Draco will save Harry's life. I feel he may see that he has been brought up wrong and eventually help Harry/Ron/hermione ect.. in some way shape or form. I am not saying he will ever really like them but I think he may turn a new leaf.

Veritaserum

June 29th, 2003, 4:57 am

Well I have to say that we can establish that Snape is not using Occlumency on Voldemort, why I hear you ask! Well we know that for occlumency to work, you have to be face to face, so unless Snape is finding someway of being face to face with Voldy (which I doubt cos I think Voldie would just blow Snape to smitherines if he saw him) then we can't believe that Snape is practicing occlumeny on Voldie. Harry can because they are connected through the scar but otherwise no. I think that that's why Snape got so excited when Harry told him it was his job to spy on Voldemort and Snape grabbed the opportunity because it so hard for him to do!

Veritaserum

Inkwolf

June 29th, 2003, 10:41 am

Originally posted by Veritaserum (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=401223#post401223))
Well I have to say that we can establish that Snape is not using Occlumency on Voldemort, .....Harry can because they are connected through the scar but otherwise no.

Actually, Snape is connected to Voldemort throguh the dark mark, so it is possible he's using that....

Not to tear down my own theories, but..gotta admit the possibility. After all, I was the most rabid defender of the Snape Doesn't Want DADA theory....

And I think he was pleased when Harry said that because he was proud of his spy work and wanted a bit of glory and public recognition for it, and having it all kept top secret didn't allow him to brag about it himself.

Or, possibly, he took it as an actual admission by Harry that there were some things Snape could do which he couldn't.

IThinkNot

June 30th, 2003, 1:28 am

My theory has been blown out of the water, I think... oh well, if it sucks it sucks. ;)

Ollivander

June 30th, 2003, 1:55 am

that was a brillant theory inkwolf... i do think you caught everything too... i do agree that something is fishy... we will have to see..

Veritaserum

June 30th, 2003, 2:00 am

Yeh I forgot about the Dark Mark Inkwolf! I dunno though, does it work the same way as Haryy's scar. I mean if it did that would mean that like Harry, Voldemort passed some of his powers into Snape wouldn't it. Oh maybe this is why Dumbledore won't let Snape teach DADA because he might remember he has these and harness them! Ok I bit side tracked there...

Veritaserum

IThinkNot

June 30th, 2003, 2:13 am

That may very well be closer to the truth than you realize... sounds good to me.

gryffindordude

June 30th, 2003, 2:33 am

original quote: "The Malfoy's as a whole strike me as odd. For some reason I have a strange feeling Draco will save Harry's life. I feel he may see that he has been brought up wrong and eventually help Harry/Ron/hermione ect.. in some way shape or form. I am not saying he will ever really like them but I think he may turn a new leaf."

This is very unlikely. I mean Draco is following in his father's footsteps. At the end of OOtP he confronts Harry and says something like he's gonna pay for getting his daddy in prison. Draco knows what his father is up to and will probably join up with Voldemort. I find it very unlikely that he will save Harry's life, but knowing JKR anything could happen...

PrtVeela

June 30th, 2003, 2:55 am

I believe that ultimatley the only thing Lucius in concerned about is himself, and the betterment of himself. This means he may have to do things he doesn't like to do i.e. help both sides, or appear to helping both sides, (as a theroy in here suggested).

good good theroies i must say!! i was going to try and disprove it, but the more i tried the more i questioned myself...what fun! :)

Inkwolf

June 30th, 2003, 2:56 am

Originally posted by Veritaserum (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=403989#post403989))
Yeh I forgot about the Dark Mark Inkwolf! I dunno though, does it work the same way as Haryy's scar. I mean if it did that would mean that like Harry, Voldemort passed some of his powers into Snape wouldn't it. Oh maybe this is why Dumbledore won't let Snape teach DADA because he might remember he has these and harness them! Ok I bit side tracked there...

Veritaserum

Oooooh! I like that thinking! The reason Dumbledore is afraid to let Snape teach DADA is the link to Voldemort, not any fear of Snape's own behavior! And JKR couldn't say it, because she's still keeping up a bit of mystery about how Snape is using the Mark to spy! (Inky hugs Veritaserum for providing Snivvy a valid alibi.)

Eruanna

June 30th, 2003, 3:18 pm

wow! i love the theory...can;t help feeling that lucius isn;t on any specific side thugh...its well known that slytherins will use any means to get the end result they want and i think all lucius wants is his own power and stuff....i love him...but i think that he isnt really attahced to any side as such....

Lestrange

June 30th, 2003, 10:10 pm

....I've thought about this theory for quite a while after I posted that comment about it, and I was thinking.... Would Lucius want to be the new Voldemort, or Minister of Magic.....? If he got what he wanted, would he start his tyranny under the "evil" classification (new Dark Lord, obviously), or under the guise of a good person (yes, I know, good politician sounds like an oxymoron..), under the Minister of Magic?

dorcasderr

June 30th, 2003, 10:41 pm

Snivvy, Inkwolf? Snivvy? Well, I must say I've always thought Lucius was out for himself and definitely would like nothing better than to be the next Dark Lord. He's waiting in the wings...He's also seen, with his own eyes, Harry defeat Voldemort yet again, and although he knows that Voldemort is still way too powerful to try to overthrow, he knows there is a weakness there and that it is connected to Harry. Getting rid of Harry would be part of his plan too, even though he has not heard the prophecy. I think serving Lord Voldemort serves Lucius's purposes for the time being but that Voldemort ought to keep an eye on him (probably is).

ali_jane

July 1st, 2003, 1:10 am

I think there's still a slim possibility that Draco might change sides (in a Snape way -- I don't suddenly see him being best friends with Harry and company). Possibly Lucious and Draco are close, but it didn't really seem that way when you heard them in the skeezy Nocturn Alley. If Lucious on a power trip does something that really endangers his son it might suddenly come to Draco that he'll never be able to please his father and then he might turn to the other side for support. Actually we hear that his mum cares about him a lot so it might be more likely if Lucious does something to Draco's mum. Maybe something to do with blood magic trying to track down Tonks, or as some weird spell that has to do with Sirius since she's related to them?

IThinkNot

July 1st, 2003, 1:18 am

Draco won't change sides. The bad guy (aside from V'Mort, of course) is Snape and he HAS switched sides. You can do any more switching-siding with this. Or at least in my opinion.

medboy76

July 1st, 2003, 7:40 am

I think Inkwolf is onto something here. It probably won't go down exactly like this, but I wouldn't be surprised if Lucius is playing both sides for his own purposes. When you align yourself with scummy people (as Voldemort has), you shouldn't be surprised when they are in the game for themselves only and end up turning on you. This seems to be one of the valued characteristics of a good Slytherin. Lucius is best off when both Voldermort/the Death Eater and Dumbledore/the Order are around fighting each other. All of the turmoil probably helps him move up in the world.

I wonder if JKR will look at this site (and others) and change her book as she writes based on the theories. This will be the first book that she'll write where a site like this will be up and so active for the entire time she writes the book. She could get ideas here... or she could change things a bit to insure that we are all wrong.

IThinkNot

July 1st, 2003, 5:14 pm

I thought she had written all the books already??

JenJen

July 2nd, 2003, 12:03 am

I'm getting the feeling that Lucius is all for supporting one person - himself (like medboy76 said). Right now he feels that it's to his benefit to support Voldie, but also wants to be on the good side of people like Snape so he can fall back on "I wasn't supporting him! I was spying on him to get info for the good side!" - of course, that was sorta screwed up when he was caught at the Ministry...oh well.

I LoVe pAdFoOt

July 3rd, 2003, 3:05 am

I've always wondered why Malfoy's favorite teacher is Snape, when Snape is fighting against Voldermort and left the Death Eaters. Aparently Draco listens to his father a lot, but his father shouldn't be too happy with Snape because he would be considered a traitor to the Dark Lord for leaving the Death Eaters... why would Malfoy like Snape? I mean Snape does give him special treatment, but to Draco and Lucius, there's nothing more important than serving Lord Voldermort, so why is it that Lucius remains friendly with Snape? Also, why does Draco still go to Howarts if hsi father despises Dumbledore so much? Howarts is not the only school of Witchcraft and Wizardry. I mean he's there as Harry's enemy, but it makes no sense if Dumbledore and Harry are Lord Voldermorts largest enemies... any thoughts?

Cheetah

July 3rd, 2003, 3:12 am

Thought. Lucius doesn't know Snape left the death eaters. Sev was spying on them and continued to do so, which means no one but Harry, DD, and the order knew he wasnt a DE any more.

Kerbox

July 3rd, 2003, 3:14 am

Thats right. Snape is still a Deatheater, and obviously only the Order know he is spying. And considering how Snape is treating Harry, Malfoy have no clue at all.

Lord Aoshi

July 3rd, 2003, 3:19 am

Snape is just asking for trouble :/ He has one of, if not, the most dangerous job.

KeLiSiTing

July 3rd, 2003, 5:17 am

I don't know why Lucius likes Snape but he does. Umbridge says in her office that Lucius speaks very highly of Snape. Which means maybe Voldemort isn't aware of Snape being against him.

Klob6

July 3rd, 2003, 5:24 am

Draco isn't stupid. Daddy dearest has taught him that it is WHO YOU KNOW in the Wizarding world that will take you places and get you what you want. I think he uses Snape as a stepping stone to get what he wants at Hogwarts and I am sure his dad doesn't object.

Kenshin

July 3rd, 2003, 5:26 am

I'd be surprised if Tom doesn't know Snape is spying. Snape may be good at Occlumency but someone must have told him that Snape was a spy. In GF he said he was going to kill him. Also, when Harry was in Dumbledore's memory in the Pensieve, Dumbledore said that Snape was spying for him in front of a couple of the DEs I think. I'd also be surprised if Lucious doesn't like Snape because in GF, when Tom was revived, Snape didn't show up. Snape could have ran off of Hogwarts grounds and apparated to Tom.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 5:34 am

Didn't it say in one of the books that he was supposed to go to Durmstrang but Narcissa thought it would be too far away??? Or am i just imagining things?

Alastor D

July 3rd, 2003, 5:46 am

It's hard to imagine Lucius not knowing about Snape. Lucius may have his own agenda. Voldemort called him 'my slippery friend', didn't he?
And he is probably not letting her son know every detail. Speaking highly of Snape to Fudge may also be a part of keeping Fudge away from the truth.

DaN+EmMa

July 3rd, 2003, 7:10 am

well if everyone knows he's still a DE then hasn't it occured to them how come he hasn't been to any DE meetings or tried to kill harry or anything? he hasn't had contact with any of the DE that we know of

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 7:21 am

Well wouldn't it be pretty obvious why he hasn't tried to kill Harry, I mean if he did it, it would be right under DD's nose pretty much. And that would not be a smart move.

Cheetah

July 3rd, 2003, 7:22 am

Originally posted by heirofslytherin_dm (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=416768#post416768))
Didn't it say in one of the books that he was supposed to go to Durmstrang but Narcissa thought it would be too far away??? Or am i just imagining things?

That's why Draco didn't go to durmstrang.:rolleyes:

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 7:25 am

I was just asking cuz I couldn't remember. You didn't have to jump on my case lol.

Cheetah

July 3rd, 2003, 7:26 am

Sorry, didn't mean too. I just saw the message and remembered that.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 7:26 am

Oh ok. It's all good.

Blah

July 3rd, 2003, 8:02 am

Snape is a gun at occlumency, so I gather nobody would know he is a spy. It is said that Voldemort is particularly talented at reading people's minds, so no doubt he has tried to do so on Snape to see if he is still siding with Dumbledore.

Snape may well be one of the only wizards who could lie to Voldemort's face and get away with it. In Philiosophers Stone, he realises Harry is lieing when he looks in the mirror of erised. In Book 4, he knows when Wormtail is lieing. But maybe Snape can get away with it, as he is well trained.

That's what I reckon anyway.

Unopened Letter

July 3rd, 2003, 8:15 am

For Draco, I think he likes Snape because Snape likes him. I mean, when you're a kid, no matter what anyone tells you about someone else, if they show you that they obviously favourite you, you don't question it. You play along and take the attention and the advantages that come with it.
For Lucius, no one is actually supposed to know who the Death Eaters are. I mean, maybe they know if they're a group amongst themselves but even then, I recall somewhere in the series (too late to look for exact book) that no one knew for sure who was in and who was out. Lucius was supposed to be looken upon by the Ministry of Magic, so any signs that points him out to be a DE would be an obvious No No, and I guess that means being mean to Snape.

PeterDB204

July 3rd, 2003, 10:00 am

Originally posted by Kenshin (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=416741#post416741))
In GF he said he was going to kill him.

No he didn't, he said one death eater had left him forever and would die. There is no strong link identifying that is actually Snape, we can only make a guess at that because of what we know but we know very little of Snape, his secret work and why Dumbledore trusts him which will all come together in the next 2 books.

rotsiepots

July 3rd, 2003, 1:20 pm

There's a very interesting thread addressing this issue. You can find it here (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11592).

I'll merge your general query with this thread. :)

Severely Snapped

July 5th, 2003, 4:58 am

Originally posted by IThinkNot (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=399780#post399780))
I don't think Lucius is a spy. I think he is the (oblivious) person through which Snape is getting information. There is no way Snape could become a Death Eater once more, Voldemort is far too intelligent for that. Snape has abandoned that life and Voldemort knows this. Even so, Snape is somehow getting important information, and I think he is manipulating Lucius into telling him what he wants to know. Through Legimency, I think--- but also through psychology. To learn Occlumency Snape must have learned the human mind. I bet he would know all the right buttons to push, the best words to say, the exact way to make Lucius tell him what he shouldn't. For some people it's getting them drunk... for a few people it is the threat of exposure... for others, it is the promise of power. That's where Lucius comes in. I think Snape is giving Lucius subtle hints about how to become the Headmaster of Hogwarts, or the Minister of Magic. Lucius being the dealer he is, he thinks he is playing Snape, when Snape is actually playing him. See where this is going?

That was, officially, my first real theory.

I think this is a GREAT theory! And not all that far from Inkwolf's; only with regard to Lucius's intentions. I think Snape is very good at psychology--when the guy on the couch is not Severus Snape, that is--and someone as arrogant as Malfoy would be very easy to stroke and flatter and use for information.

dudemanthing

July 6th, 2003, 6:18 pm

Well, after book 4 i would've thought that Malfoy was in fact in leugue with Snape in the hopes of becoming the next minister of Magic, maybe even trying to overthrow Voldemort himself in the hopes of "glorifying" himself....

But know, after he has been so defamed and has been "found out", i think he has no choice but to stay with Voldemort. Voldemort undoubtedly knows that Malfoy was a go between but Volde cannot kill him off, Malfoy's influence is still pretty HUGE. Know i think we'll finally see Malfoy in despair!

HAHAHAHAHA! Take some of your own medicine Malfoy!

I LoVe pAdFoOt

July 6th, 2003, 10:07 pm

Okay i just realized that not even the Death Eaters know who each other are, except for maybe the ones who they know were imprisoned for doing Dark Magic for Voldermort and all. But if that's so, then why is it that in OoTP the DE showed up aqt the Ministry of Magic and they were showing their faces. I mean if they didn't know Snape wasn't a death eater then why didn't they invite Snape to go with them to the Ministry of Magic, Department of Misteries to attack Harry and force him to get the Prophecy?

Severely Snapped

July 7th, 2003, 4:21 am

I'm sorry, pAdFoOt, but I'm confused. Are you saying you think the other DEs know Snape's a spy because they didn't ask him to come along?

Liselle

September 17th, 2003, 8:14 pm

It is known that not all Death Eaters knew who all the other Death Eaters were. Voldemort is probably keeping mum about who the traitors are, he probably wants to hunt them down and kill them off for himself.

Snape is talented, and I'm sure he has weasled himself into the DE without everybody knowing who he is. Don't you find it facinating that Snape is skilled at Occulemcy (or how ever it is spelt) it highlights the fact that he is indeed a spy and is his hiding identity from Voldemort.

...which could all point to why Persues Evans changed his name to Severus Snape....which could mean that Snape is related to Lily and this is why Harry ended up with the Durlseys and not him instead....Brilliant...I love it. This makes alot of things fit together

Jessica

September 18th, 2003, 7:07 pm

FACT: Dumbleodre wouldn't look in Harry's eyes for fear of Voldemort looking out.

FACT: Dumbledore assigned Snape to teach Harry Occlumency.

FACT: Snape's job is to find out what Voldemort tells the Death Eaters.

CONCLUSION: Snape is not in personal contact with Voldemort. Otherwise he could hardly risk being seen helping Harry block Voldemort out!

FACT: Lucius Malfoy is a Death Eater.

PROBABLE FACT: Voldemort has declared that Snape must die.

FACT: Snape is hand in glove with the Malfoy family and in regular contact with them.

FACT: Lucius Malfoy has not killed the traitor. Go figure...

FACT: It was said that those who would fear the Dark Lord's return the most are his former followers.

PROBABLE FACT: In the twenty or so years since Lucius became a Death Eater, he has found better things to do than running errands for the Dark Lord.

FACT: Being a Death Eater means a lifetime of servitude.

FACT: The Malfoys aren't into doing 'servant stuff.'

THEORY: Is Lucius Malfoy spying for Snape? Don't get me wrong, I do NOT believe he has joined the forces of good. But I think he'd rather be evil and important on his own than follow the orders of Voldemort! He could be loyally serving by day, but feeding Snape whatever info might help demolish the demanding pest of a Dark Lord.

Draco might even act as an unwitting go-between, carrying messages without knowing it.

In which case, expect Lucius to get out of prison on his wealth and connections surprisingly quickly! ;)

Okay I agree with everything you have here except the probable fact I put in bold.

Here's my theory. Lucuis Malfoy is too conceited to recognize that Snape is a Leglimens.

Snape has convinced Malfoy that he (Snape) can be trusted. Via bribes (special priveleges for Draco) and carefully chosen information about the order.

(Perhaps Snape is the one who led Malfoy to recognize Sirius. This would be a relatively harmless show of good faith and it would serve Dumbledore's purpose of discouraging Sirius from leaving 12 Grimmauld Place)

At any rate, Malfoy is convinced that he has more to gain from his friendship with Snape than he has to lose. Meanwhile, without Malfoy's knowledge, Snape is infiltating his mind to find out what the Dark Lord is up to. He may be doing the same thing on the Slytherin children and other parents to make sure the information matches.

Anyway, that's my interpretation.

Baron_G

September 19th, 2003, 10:58 am

Lucius Malfoy used Riddle's diary to exert pressure on the school governors, get rid of Dumbledore, discredit Arthur Weasley and get rid of that Muggle Protection Act but didn't put effort into actually locating LV.

I think Malfoy is an Occlumens/Legilimens as well. This is why he can plot his own little schemes to get power while serving LV at the same time. Lucius and DD had somewhat of a staring contest in McGonagall's office at the end of CoS which leads me to believe this. Don't get me wrong, Malfoy must look up to LV (The Dark Lord always knows- "Always") and think he has the right ideas about pure-blood wizard superiority, so he would never truly betray him. But that doesn't mean he can't earn some power on the side, while piggybacking on LV's own designs. I think Lucius uses other Dark Wizards, perhaps valuing non-DEs for his purposes, because they won't tell on him. Maintaining a network of independant wizards also allows him to impress LV when/if he is asked to perform certain tasks on his own, which he'd then do in record time. I think that Snape is one of those wizards because it puts him close enough to Malfoy to guess LV's schemes. Snape being an occlumens himself, is safe and perhaps Malfoy trusts this school-friend lackey so much, he doesn't suspect him of being a spy. Of course, all this hinges on LV not declaring Snape to be a traitor who should be killed off. Either that or Malfoy might choose to disregard such a declaration completely for some reason.

Jessica

September 19th, 2003, 10:12 pm

Joined: 03.11.03
(This is a fan fic I wrote in the Snape's POV thread exploring my theory above. I hope this is okay to put here. I think it explains my idea better than I did above.)

Calm.

Deep breath.

"Hello, Lucius."

"Severus, we need to talk about Draco" Heaven forbid we go five minutes without dragging his snivelling brat into the conversation.

"Of course, Lucius. He is doing very well in Potions these days. Why just last week. . ."

"I don't care what he did last week! That filthy mudblood girl is continuing to best him in every subject! I can't stand for this!"

Good, he's getting very emotional. I should be able to sneak into his mind and find out what I need to know without attracting his notice. Let's see what the Dark Lord is up to these days. . .Oh drat, he's stopped speaking"

"I agree with you wholeheartedly Lucius. It is a disgrace to the name of wizard for a no-name, muggle-born little know-it-all like her to show up the heir of one of the most respected wizarding families in England. Tell me what you propose that we do . . ."

"I don't know what to do. That's the problem. I offered that crackpot Dumbledore that I would build a new wing for the library but . . ." Good, good. Keep talking. Now where was I?

The Dark Lord is gathering followers. I suspected that already. The Dark Lord is angry about that catastrophe at the Ministry. I could have told you that without examining Malfoy's mind. The Dark Lord has a new plan? Really now what is it? Come to me, little thoughts of Malfoy.

"Yes Lucius. I think that is a wonderful idea. I will tell the headmaster that I believe all the teachers should give young Draco extra tutoring sessions. A young mind like his must be constantly challenged. Why don't you come by next week so we can discuss this some more?"

Just wait till I tell the headmaster what I have learned. . .

Liselle

September 20th, 2003, 12:57 pm

At any rate, Malfoy is convinced that he has more to gain from his friendship with Snape than he has to lose. Meanwhile, without Malfoy's knowledge, Snape is infiltating his mind to find out what the Dark Lord is up to. He may be doing the same thing on the Slytherin children and other parents to make sure the information matches.

excellent point. By the way...does anyone else think that its Lucius Malfoy who owns the old riddle house? (it says in the book that a rich man from London owns it for "tax purposes") to me it fits that its Malfoy, after all he has some of Tom Riddle's old school things.

Liselle

hesdead-dealwithit

September 21st, 2003, 4:40 am

I had wondered about that. It could be, but I don't really see the point of him buying it. Remember, Voldemort grew up in an orphanage - he probably was in that house about five times tops, if ever. I see no reason for their being anything inside that would make Malfoy want to buy it. Plus, Voldemort might have mentioned the owner of the house if it was Malfoy. Not only that, Frank Bryce was still getting paid for gardening even when there was no one living there. Why would the Malfoys do something nice to a Muggle?

Liselle

September 21st, 2003, 3:44 pm

Why would the Malfoys do something nice to a Muggle?

not saying that they definetly own the house or that they were paying a muggle to maintain it (no matter how badly!) but it seems to be alot about keeping up appearences with the Malfoys...being better than everyone else....what better to boast to their DE friends or Dark wizard friends that they own Lord Voldemorts Paternal abode.....and have a muggle doing their dirty work (maintain it!)

just something that crossed my mind :)

Liselle

Jessica

September 23rd, 2003, 12:48 am

FYI: Who owns the riddle house is being discussed here (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=8529) (I've always thought it was Voldemort himself, but off topic)

Anyway, back to our previously scheduled topic.

whizbang121

July 6th, 2004, 4:40 pm

Wow. Interesting perspective.
FACT: Dumbleodre wouldn't look in Harry's eyes for fear of Voldemort looking out.

FACT: Dumbledore assigned Snape to teach Harry Occlumency.

FACT: Snape's job is to find out what Voldemort tells the Death Eaters.

CONCLUSION: Snape is not in personal contact with Voldemort. Otherwise he could hardly risk being seen helping Harry block Voldemort out!

FACT: Lucius Malfoy is a Death Eater.

PROBABLE FACT: Voldemort has declared that Snape must die.

FACT: Snape is hand in glove with the Malfoy family and in regular contact with them.

FACT: Lucius Malfoy has not killed the traitor. Go figure...

FACT: It was said that those who would fear the Dark Lord's return the most are his former followers.

PROBABLE FACT: In the twenty or so years since Lucius became a Death Eater, he has found better things to do than running errands for the Dark Lord.

FACT: Being a Death Eater means a lifetime of servitude.

FACT: The Malfoys aren't into doing 'servant stuff.'

THEORY: Is Lucius Malfoy spying for Snape? Don't get me wrong, I do NOT believe he has joined the forces of good. But I think he'd rather be evil and important on his own than follow the orders of Voldemort! He could be loyally serving by day, but feeding Snape whatever info might help demolish the demanding pest of a Dark Lord.

Draco might even act as an unwitting go-between, carrying messages without knowing it.

In which case, expect Lucius to get out of prison on his wealth and connections surprisingly quickly! ;)

Remus Black

July 19th, 2004, 9:56 pm

I admire your creativity, but if he was a spy, why did he try to take the prophecy from Harry?

Voldie_Mort

July 19th, 2004, 10:06 pm

From Inkwolfs first post, there is a possiblity that I haven't thought of before. Or maybe it's just because Dumbledore told Snape to be chummy with Lucius. But it is a very good point, and like Inkwolf said, "Their not into the servent thing" :agree:

whizbang121

December 17th, 2004, 2:29 am

FACT: Dumbleodre wouldn't look in Harry's eyes for fear of Voldemort looking out.

FACT: Dumbledore assigned Snape to teach Harry Occlumency.

FACT: Snape's job is to find out what Voldemort tells the Death Eaters.

CONCLUSION: Snape is not in personal contact with Voldemort. Otherwise he could hardly risk being seen helping Harry block Voldemort out!

FACT: Lucius Malfoy is a Death Eater.

PROBABLE FACT: Voldemort has declared that Snape must die.

FACT: Snape is hand in glove with the Malfoy family and in regular contact with them.

FACT: Lucius Malfoy has not killed the traitor. Go figure...

FACT: It was said that those who would fear the Dark Lord's return the most are his former followers.

PROBABLE FACT: In the twenty or so years since Lucius became a Death Eater, he has found better things to do than running errands for the Dark Lord.

FACT: Being a Death Eater means a lifetime of servitude.

FACT: The Malfoys aren't into doing 'servant stuff.'

THEORY: Is Lucius Malfoy spying for Snape? Don't get me wrong, I do NOT believe he has joined the forces of good. But I think he'd rather be evil and important on his own than follow the orders of Voldemort! He could be loyally serving by day, but feeding Snape whatever info might help demolish the demanding pest of a Dark Lord.

Draco might even act as an unwitting go-between, carrying messages without knowing it.

In which case, expect Lucius to get out of prison on his wealth and connections surprisingly quickly! ;)
Draco's Detour?

This anticipated the Pureblood Surpremacist Agenda (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=37286) nicely.
What is Malfoy's secret? Is Draco the heir to the Black family estate?

suze

December 24th, 2004, 1:12 pm

I agree with Inkwolf's first post - I have thought for some time that Snape is not the spy we are all assuming him to be. Voldemort must know from his time possessing quirrell that snape is not on his side any longer. However who could the spy be - the logical answer would be Malfoy just going on canon and the amount of opportunities he has had to hurt and kill Harry but has not done so. Now I'm not saying I like the idea of Malfoy being vaguely on our side and I have no canon to give you any reasons why he would want to be but will keep looking!!!!
Great theory - I am just a bit gutted because I thought I had thought of it first!!!!! Should have known better really!!!!!!

aggiefan1206

December 24th, 2004, 6:34 pm

Lucius is 100 percent death eater. I highly doubt that he is helping anyone having to do with the order unless he though Snape was still serving voldemort. Plus he hates Dumbldore more then anyone except harry. He is no good and he is serving voldemort and not trying to get out of his service. I think Dumbldore would know if he had good in him which i dont see him having.

Allemande

December 24th, 2004, 11:47 pm

perhaps the whole Lucius situation is similar to the Peter Pettigrew one...when Voldemort isn't really in the picture, Lucius prefers to be on the MoM side (remember the running away from the dark mark, and not trying to find Voldemort), but when Voldemort has his full powers back, only then will Lucius once again take on the role of a death eater. Remember in POA when either Sirius/Lupin says that Peter wouldn't risk anything for Voldemort unless he was strong again? I personally see a big parallel between these two people.

lightinthedark

December 24th, 2004, 11:51 pm

well now he's in azkaban for being a death eater so i don't think there much chance of going to the mom side now lol

Discordia

December 25th, 2004, 4:06 am

THEORY: Is Lucius Malfoy spying for Snape? Don't get me wrong, I do NOT believe he has joined the forces of good. But I think he'd rather be evil and important on his own than follow the orders of Voldemort! He could be loyally serving by day, but feeding Snape whatever info might help demolish the demanding pest of a Dark Lord.

Ok, I know a lot of people love Snape and Lucius, hell even one of my good friends adores Snape so I guess..*sigh*...so many people love them nonetheless. I think that you give too much credit to Lucius. I think it's pretty obvious what Lucius's motives are and what side he's on. He tried to get Dumbledore sacked, he abused his house elf, he tried to kill/harm/curse Harry, he called for the execution of Buckbeak, he's Deatheater not to mention if he had his way muggles would be exterminated and most likely totured them for fun. The man is rotten to the core. Lucius will choose the side that benefits him the most. Lucius is not the one acting as a spy, Snape is.