CoSForums Archive - Snape and Harry regarding Sirius

Lestrange

July 3rd, 2003, 5:56 am

I remember Snape doing something like this before in Prisoner of Azkaban, "...You would have died like your father, too arrogant to believe you might have been mistaken in Black."

He's done it before to Harry, trying to provoke him. Even though Sirius' death is so recent, I can see Snape calling Sirius arrogant or something, and Harry blowing up and trying to beat the poo out of Snape. ...It would be an excellent plot device for Harry to be given a detention, or for Snape to take away 50 points from Gryffindor.

I <3 Ron

July 3rd, 2003, 6:03 am

I don't think Snape was as... thouroughly depressed.... about Sirius as everyone else, but I don't think he's stoop as low as that. He must have some idea of how much Harry cared for him. Even if he was once a DE and had no heart, betraying Voldy definitely gave him some heart.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 6:05 am

I am not so sure..........I think since Harry now knows all of that **** about Snape and how he was treated by James and Sirius. I don't think he would give a second thought about taunting Harry about Sirius.

I <3 Ron

July 3rd, 2003, 6:08 am

True, hopefully Harry won't get himself landed in Azkaban for trying to perform and illegal curse on a professor.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 6:10 am

Yeah, wouldn't that be an excellent end to the book. But I think he will show a little more self-control than you'd think. I mean especially if he taunts him about Sirius. Sirius' words will pop into his head. "Don't do anything rash", "Keep your nose clean." Although it will give him something to yell at Ron and Hermione about lol.

Oddfellow

July 3rd, 2003, 6:13 am

I just can't see Snape insulting Sirius.
Although there is hatred, there is, too, respect. Dumbledore demanded them of it. And if Snape respected Sirius and vice versa, I cannot see an insult from him. Snape was not demanded to respect the Potters, therefore that may be why we have seen some jabs at them.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 6:16 am

Demanding respect from them didn't do very good considering they almost got into a fight (over insults thrown at one another) in OotP headquarters. Snape knows why Sirius can't help DD as much as he would like to, yet he continues to throw it back in his face as being lazy.

Oddfellow

July 3rd, 2003, 6:22 am

Remember that may be why the only "almost got into a fight" instead of "got into a fight". Respect did not wash away their hatred as I said before.

I <3 Ron

July 3rd, 2003, 6:23 am

As much as Snape dislikes Harry, Do you think he would take his hatred for Sirius out on him?

Oddfellow

July 3rd, 2003, 6:28 am

It's quite possible, yes.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 6:28 am

Yes, he took it out on him over James. He sees James in him.

Nightwing

July 3rd, 2003, 6:49 am

Interesting issue...

Firstly a bit about Snape, initially I didn't like him much, but upon re-reading the first few books I realised his bitterness and nastiness were not without some justification. If we're to believe DD that he can be trusted (and I believe that) then he walks a fine line when it comes to his role in OotP (the organisation, not the book). He must know about the prophecy, and the role Harry is going to play. He must also be aware that taunting Harry about Sirius is going to result in an exposive response, to put things mildly.

Depends on a lot of things....IF Snape is a double agent of sorts, he might taunt Harry to destabilise him, and just cos he's malignant. He might taunt Harry cos he reminds him of James. He might NOT however taunt Harry, and that could be one of the most telling indications that Snape is actually not evil (I won't call him good just yet :).

Point is I don't know what Snape will do about this. He has to know how important Sirius was in Harry's life, and I'm thinking he'll look at the big picture and decide....

I think the issue might come up between them, but I don't think it'll be taunting.

Lestrange

July 3rd, 2003, 6:53 am

Sirius' words will pop into his head. "Don't do anything rash", "Keep your nose clean."

More likely, I see Sirius' other words popping into his mind: Excellent. Snivellus.

On second, thought, I doubt that Snape will say anything, with the possible blackmail info that out dear Potter has.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 6:54 am

I am still unsure if he will think to look at the big picture. True he could surprise us all, but from what I've seen he'll want to give as much **** to Harry as possible. And of course bringing up the death of Sirius (whether he taunts or not) will do that. And considering most of the interactions between the two happen in potions and in front of Malfoy. I doubt that he will hold back on it, simply because of Malfoy. I can't see that happening. Malfoy would simply find it weird that Snape wasn't taking advantage of something like that, and run to tell daddy. Just my opinion though.

Nightwing

July 3rd, 2003, 6:58 am

That's a point...if the issue comes up in Potions with Malfoy and his gang around it'll be nasty to say the least :) Also you're right in that it will look suspicious to Malfoy if Snape doesn't take the opportunity to grind Harry a bit.

Snape might still end up teaching Harry Occlumency....and it could happen there, and I think Harry has a few things to say to Snape regarding James and what he saw in the pensieve....so whatever happens it'll be interesting :)

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 7:01 am

Yes but Snape suspects that he will bring up the stuff he saw in the pensieve. Why else do you think he threw him out so quickly? And you are right, if he starts teaching Harry Occlumency again it could happen there, but with what Harry already saw I am not sure Snape will be very willing. He is already risking his neck for the order so it isn't like it is a call of duty. I still think he will bring it up. As nasty as it may be, it is what I have come to expect it from Snape.

Nightwing

July 3rd, 2003, 7:09 am

I've wondered about Snape teaching Occlumency.....yeah he doesn't want to and has enough on his plate, but DD insisted, and I think he'll pressure Snape in book6. Harry's also been told (from a number of quarters) how important it is, so look for him approaching Snape about it.....

There's more to these lessons than Harry learning to defend himself against Voldemort's intrusions...I think Snape is going to get more glimpses into Harry's mind and memories....he might look like James but he is NOT James. Harry being bullied by Dudley and his gang as well as other childhood memories *might* just cause Snape to see him differently. Whether it overrides his contempt for James (and by extension, Harry) remains to be seen.

I hope it will, I still think Snape has a bigger role to play...

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 7:15 am

Yeah, you bring up a good point about the whole seeing in to his memories and finding out he isn't like James but I am not so sure it will be easy to convince Snape. DD insisted last time. But it isn't exactly like Snape put in 110% in to teaching him. Whenever Harry couldn't get it right it was Snape constantly saying "You aren't trying", "You aren't putting any effort in to it" I mean he just jumped right in when he wasn't ready and started. There have been rumors flying around that he was just opening up his mind for LV but if so wouldn't he have gone ahead and kept opening it up, instead of stopping it after only a glimpse? I am not so sure Snape will ever see him any differently. He will (IMO) always see Harry as an attention seeking little celebrity. A little bit of bullying from people to Harry will mean nothing to Snape. Snape was bullied because the Marauders were bored. He will find it hard to believe that he should have pity on someone like Harry. Especially now that Harry knows exactly what happened to Snape years ago.

Sorry if that makes absolutely no sense.

Nightwing

July 3rd, 2003, 7:28 am

You make perfect sense :)

Yes indeed Snape might have been opening Harry up to Voldemort, and he might have done more damage (if you go with this theory) had Harry not defended himself with a few unexpected hexes of his own. JKR is keeping it open-ended, which makes a great platform for discussion :)

I think my problem is I like Snape, and I sympathise with him. I don't know if he will get over his dislike of Harry, but he might just realise that Harry is not the attention-seeking celebrity he (snape) always imagined.

Roll on book 6 :)

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 7:36 am

It's gonna be hard for him to get over that though. If you look at his father, he's perfect. Then look at how he got his fame. And since he has been at Hogwarts, Snape has always made the point that fame isn't everything and then Harry got away from Voldemort 3 times....and then in PoA Snape assumed it was his fault that Black got away. He has always tried to lessen everyone's opinion of him and of course with the Slytherins he has succeeded, not that it was hard to do or anything. I too like Snape, and sympathise with him but it is simply because of that, that I can't see him ever getting over his hatred. And now he has more ammunition for going after Harry. And let's think about it. Let's say Snape does taunt Harry over Sirius, that would be just another reason for Harry to lash out (if he does), and that would just make everyone believe that he can't control his temper, he's crazy for sticking up for a murderer, and has no respect for authority. There would be so many things Snape could use this taunting for, that it would simply be against his character not to do.

Nightwing

July 3rd, 2003, 9:01 am

hah this is fun :)

Good points again heirofslytherin....another thing to bear in mind, Snape maintains his apparent hatred, scorn etc because he has to. If there's a hint of a change in his attitude it would blow his cover, so to speak. (we've both touched on this). Remember Snape's role in book1 with Quirrel....in the quiddich match and at the end.

Not taunting Harry would be against his character, and it would also blow his cover, so I guess I'm coming round to thinking he might just do that (taunt harry publically), but privately (occlumency lessons perhaps) things might just change somewhat between them?

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 9:24 am

I don't think so. If he stopped taunting him in private that would be a weird thing. Harry wouldn't really know how to handle it. Then maybe thinking that he was done doing it, maybe he wouldn't expect it in class. And of course we know that he gets taunted and brought down in class. Well if there is a weird reaction from Harry/Ron/Hermione (cuz he tells them everything) might trigger something in Malfoy. Malfoy may be evil but he is not stupid.

Nightwing

July 3rd, 2003, 9:36 am

hah we'll have to wait and see I guess :)

Slightly O/T, do you think Malfoy is evil? (Draco I mean). He's elitist yes, and his upbringing accounts for much of his attitude, but imho he's been nasty, petty, even vindictive but not downright evil.......yet.

I think he's going to be put in a position where he'll go either way. At the moment he can't see the wood for the trees, but as others have speculated in other threads, he might end up surprising a lot of people.

Going back to the Snape/harry/sirius issue...the slytherins expect Snape to behave a certain way, and I'm sure he'll "keep up appearances", but something just tells me he's had some insight into Harry (as Harry has had into snape himself) that'll change things somewhat...not saying they'll become friendly or anything, just that a grudging sort of understanding may develop.....I really don't know :)

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 9:45 am

No, in a way I don't think Draco is "evil". His father has made him see one way and one way only but if there were contradicting issues i am not exactly sure he would take his father's way. I agree I think his "evilness" or lack-there-of will be put to the test. Snape issue- I don't think he wants any insight into Harry. He has got it into his head that he is exactly like his father and he is afraid/or reluctant rather to find out that he is right. I am not sure they will really come to an understanding. Snape already has this idea that Harry is this snot nosed little attention seeking brat and has voiced this, with other choice words mind you. How often do you think Snape is gonna admit he was wrong? I don't think he ever will. He (IMO) won't admit this to Harry. If he does then Harry has an advantage not only does he know about the Snape issue when he was in school but now he knows that Snape really doesn't hate him. And if that happened and Snape continued to taunt or ridicule him in class it would have no effect on him, and it would take all the fun out of it for Malfoy. Hence, making Malfoy suspicious as to what is going on, and Snape would no longer be "keeping up appearances".

Wild Rose

July 3rd, 2003, 11:11 am

Originally posted by heirofslytherin_dm (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=417046#post417046))
Yeah, you bring up a good point about the whole seeing in to his memories and finding out he isn't like James but I am not so sure it will be easy to convince Snape. DD insisted last time. But it isn't exactly like Snape put in 110% in to teaching him. Whenever Harry couldn't get it right it was Snape constantly saying "You aren't trying", "You aren't putting any effort in to it" I mean he just jumped right in when he wasn't ready and started

But this could just be the way he teaches. It seems to work with some people, goading them into proving themselves. It seemed to work with Harry. He improved, didn't he?

But I do not think that Snape will taunt Harry over what happened to Sirius. Snape seems like he would understand honour, and Black had an honourable death. I just don't think he would be that needlessly cruel.

@-'-,---------------

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 11:19 am

He has always been "needlessly" cruel. He hates Harry because of who his father is. I am not so sure he will consider Sirius' death as honorable. He was forever criticizing Sirius for sitting on his butt doin nothin and now that he did get up and do something he got himself killed and Snape would say if he had been there he could have done better. Yeah he improved but Snape got worse as he improved. And only to Malfoy's satisfaction. I think he will taunt him just so Malfoy doesn't get suspicious and run to daddy.

Wild Rose

July 3rd, 2003, 11:24 am

Originally posted by heirofslytherin_dm (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=417378#post417378))
He has always been "needlessly" cruel

But has he? I believe that pretty much everything he does can be traced back to a reason.
And Sirius died defending what he believed in, and fighting for what was right. I believe Snape would respect that.

@-'-,------------------

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 11:27 am

Ok, just because Harry's dad was a jerk when he was 15 does not give Snape a reason to be cruel to Harry. Harry had no control over what his dad was doing. Yes but Snape had been risking his neck every single day and Sirius never gave him the recognition Snape thought he deserved. What makes you think Snape would do the same back to him?

Inkwolf

July 3rd, 2003, 4:43 pm

I don't think Snape would taunt Harry about Sirius....left on his own.

But Snape never misses a chance to hit back, does he? I think Harry is going to be more aggressive toward him in the future, and if the name 'Snivellus' passes Harry's lips in conversation with Snape, then I won't really be surprised at any reaction Harry might get. If Harry picks a fight with Snape, Snape will hit back with whatever he thinks will hurt the most.

On a couple of other points: I don;t think Snape really objected to teaching Harry Occlumency: in fact, I think he was interested, until Sirius made a big stink over it.

As to 'softening Harry up' it's ridiculous. Harry wasn't practicing or working at it seriously. Of COURSE the dreams were worse after his lessons. It's like being on the track team, and never running a step except when you're actually at practice being forced to. If you're a couch-potato all week, yes, you're going to be an aching, weak mess after the coach makes you run ten miles!

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 4:49 pm

Ya know, I think that Snape will make a comment to him in class, and Harry will pull the Snivellus thing out of left field. And as angry as Snape got when he found out what Harry saw, he will hit back with the worst thing he can think of......Sirius. I didn't say that I believed that he was softening him up, I said there had been rumors. I myself do not believe them. There isn't enough to back that up thoughrouly. As much as I like Snape, I do think he will use what means necessary to get his point across.

Nightwing

July 3rd, 2003, 4:57 pm

Couple of comments...

Originally posted by Inkwolf
I don't think Snape would taunt Harry about Sirius....left on his own.

Do you mean as long as it's not in potions and in front of Draco? Heh, in that case we agree.

On a couple of other points: I don;t think Snape really objected to teaching Harry Occlumency: in fact, I think he was interested, until Sirius made a big stink over it.

I'm reading the book a 2nd time and haven't reached this point yet.....didn't he (Snape) lose the plot when he realised Harry had peeked into his memories and throw him out of his office....refusing any future occlumency lessons? He might not have initially objected, but he did it grudgingly because DD had asked him to....perhaps he derived a perverse sort of pleasure out of Harry's struggles though.

As to 'softening Harry up' it's ridiculous. Harry wasn't practicing or working at it seriously. Of COURSE the dreams were worse after his lessons. It's like being on the track team

I understand the point you're making, but it's not quite the same thing :). For what it's worth I don't think Snape was "softening him up", but only JKR knows the rules of occlumency (she made em).....but I'm not discounting the possibility that the sessions might have made Harry more vulnerable, for whatever reason. I DO know he's gotta work at it some more in book 6 :)

Now I better get cracking and finish my re-read.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 5:09 pm

I still don't agree with you that he won't do it during Occlumency if in fact he ends up teaching him in the next book. He will probly bring up the memory of Harry reaching for the veil and Snape will make some rude comment and that will completely set Harry off. I am not so sure that Snape will teach him again simply because of how nosy Harry was. Now that he knows that stuff it will be hard for Snape to face him again. I mean taking points from Gryffindor won't matter to Harry as long as he has the Snivellus thing going for him. It is true that Harry should have tried harder but I do think Snape was pushing too hard at first. I mean I understand that he had to hurry and build up his occlumency skills but he could've been a little more helpful to Harry.

Catwalkk

July 3rd, 2003, 6:09 pm

Snape has spent five years teaching Harry to hate him. This is the biggest thing that Harry has learned, and the main thing that would cause Harry to slip over to the Dark Side. The way that Harry hates Snape is TOTALLY Snape's fault!!! Harry came to the wizarding world with no knowledge and no preconceptions, and Snape jumped into him immediately.

It might be too late for Snape to realize that Harry is not James, and to try to make amends, because HE has already poisoned Harry toward him. I think Harry crossed a line in book five, in that now it would take a heroic effort to ever forgive Snape. That, I believe, is what that line in the last chapter means: "Whatever Dumbedore said, he would never forgive Snape... never..." Snape finally did one thing too many, and the total accumulated nastiness reached a critical point. It's not going to matter much what Snape says or does, because Harry's feelings toward Snape have crystallized into utter enmity. And it's all Snape's doing.

**ADD** This, however, might work out to the ultimate good... remember when Harry hit Bellatrix with the Cruciatus Curse and all it did was hurt her a little and stunned her for a second or two? She said to him: "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, Have you boy? You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it -- righteous anger won't hurt me for long --" Harry is really learning how to hate, and this may help him in his battle against Voldemort. If we can only get his hatred for Snape transferred over to Voldemort...

However, JKR hints that Voldemort will not be defeated by hate, but by love. So my thoughts are that in the next book, Harry will be struggling with his hate, his love, and his temper. In order to defeat the Dark Lord, Harry will have to learn how and when to release all three of those.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 6:43 pm

No, Harry's hate towards Snape is not all Snape's fault. True he did come into the wizarding world with no preconceptions but that wasn't Snape's fault. Yes he is taking out anger he had in James against Harry but that is just what he will have to deal with. Over the years Harry has realized this and he has found out that Snape's hate towards him is deeply rooted in his father. Which he found out wasn't that perfect anyway. I am not sure that the thing we need to worry about is Harry channeling his hate for Snape to Voldemort he needs to learn how to control it and figure out what it is he needs that will help him.

Pucko

July 3rd, 2003, 7:06 pm

i can't see snape being that cruel...harry would probbaly try to strangle him or whatever...maybe defenestrate him....

harryton

July 3rd, 2003, 7:09 pm

i dont think Snape will taunt harry in book 6. Cuase he is in the Order and i think he respects someones death.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 3rd, 2003, 7:47 pm

If he respected Sirius that much.....he would have never accused him of sitting on his butt while everyone else was doing the work. He, if respecting the order, would have understood that he couldn't get out there and do any work, and just accepted it without criticizing.

Moonstone

July 3rd, 2003, 8:32 pm

But it isn't exactly like Snape put in 110% in to teaching him. Whenever Harry couldn't get it right it was Snape constantly saying "You aren't trying", "You aren't putting any effort in to it" I mean he just jumped right in when he wasn't ready and started.

But Harry wasn't trying as hard as he should have been and put very little effort into improving. As for starting before Harry was ready, Harry needs to be alert and prepared to defend himself at all times, not just on the count of three. Will Voldemort play fair when they meet again?

But getting back on topic, I do not think Snape will taunt Harry about Sirius any more than Harry will want to provoke Snape about the Pensieve memory. That doesn't mean that they will treat each other any differently (though one could hope so), but they understand certain boundaries apply.

NeedAM!nT

July 3rd, 2003, 8:35 pm

Snape isn't that mean. He wouldn't hurt Harry like that and he knows that if he did, Harry would choke him.

Eruanna

July 3rd, 2003, 10:26 pm

i think it'll be quite awkward for them to be around each other for a while...i mean...seeing someones worst memories is somewhat personal...

PrtVeela

July 3rd, 2003, 10:52 pm

I think that Snape would tread very latley on any subject matter regarding Sirius. I agree with moonstone, there are certain unspoken rules.
While I don't think that Snape and Harry will ever truly like each other, I do think that they can, in a sense, understand these lines and will not cross them, because there is a leval of respect there, no matter how small it may be.
I think whether or not Snape taunts Harry about Sirius's death depends on Harry's actions (Like Inkwolf has stated), But I do believe it would take a lot for Snape to do this, because there is always a level of respect for the dead.
I don't think Harry would honestly say anything about the Snivellus thing in class, because wouldn't that make people suspicious? It may be true that only Snape may understand what it means, but if his reaction was that of losing self-control wouldn't the students wonder about how Harry found out about something so personal...surely Snape wouldn't be confiding in him.
I don't even think that Harry is capable of hating someone, really hating someone, I believe he dislikes him, but after the Penseive I believe that Harry understood things that he never did before. And Harry truly doesn't know Snape at all.
If you ask me there is very little Snape can do to taunt Harry about the death of his godfather, he was valiant and died fighting for a cause that Snape and Sirius both are apart of.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:13 pm

Snape may tread lightly regarding Sirius around any of the Order and DD and all that, but do you really think he is gonna hold back when it concerns Harry?? Especially after all that he saw in the Pensieve. And everyone here saying Snape isn't that mean. There have been thread after thread saying how cruel he is, and that that pensieve only showed what he deserved. Why now do you think he will be this decent guy who won't take an obvious shot at Harry???

evil_by_nature_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:18 pm

heir of slytherin, dont you have anything better to do??????

heirofslytherin_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:20 pm

Absolutely not!!!!

evil_by_nature_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:22 pm

lol. u should!!! ur only the best friend of the most fun, sexy, intelligent being on this here earth!!!!

heirofslytherin_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:26 pm

Ok were you planning on contributing (arguing) with me on this thread????

evil_by_nature_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:28 pm

lol.....well im not sure. i'd rather you come over!!!!!! come on!!! then we can argue!

heirofslytherin_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:30 pm

Or you could call me and then we can argue lol.........

evil_by_nature_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:31 pm

lol..COME OVER!!! PUH_ LEAZ!

heirofslytherin_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:33 pm

i now don't have a car, my mom took it to Wichita so unless you can pick me up then I can't

Arissya_00

July 4th, 2003, 10:35 pm

Snape may really hate Sirius, but he wouldn't taunt Harry about his death; I think it would really hurt Harry deeply, Snape maybe really mean and unreasonable, but wouldn't want to hurt people so deep.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 4th, 2003, 10:37 pm

Ok, I am sure that the comments about Harry's father would've hurt Harry deeply....had he known him better. The fact that Snape won't even think about how deeply he is hurting him could play in. I'm not sure Snape would give it a second thought. I think Snape will bring it up, maybe not intentionally but it will play in to their potion fights. I'm almost sure of it.

Chalice

July 6th, 2003, 2:46 pm

I don't think anyone but a (current) Deatheater would taunt Harry like that. That would be sheer evil, and Snape just wouldn't. I couldn't handle it if Snape taunted Harry over Sirius, it would make his character completely different and I would be very upset.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 7th, 2003, 1:33 am

You never know. Rowling loves to surprise us. Take the pensieve scene for instance. I lot of people hated James for what he did there and I see it as the same thing. There are characters.....that (face it) will change. And not always for the better. I think you might be surprised at what Snape would do.

Ms.Sirius

July 7th, 2003, 1:39 am

OOohh boy! Well, if Snape DOES try to tease Harry about it, which I dont think he will, I know Harry will probably be able to release some of that teen rage that is bottled up inside!
:devil:

Mander

July 7th, 2003, 1:43 am

snape wouldn't. it would be devil-worthy. He never would, even if he did hate Sirius and harry too.

Siriusly

July 7th, 2003, 1:49 am

Originally posted by heirofslytherin_dm (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=417378#post417378))
He has always been "needlessly" cruel. He hates Harry because of who his father is. I am not so sure he will consider Sirius' death as honorable. He was forever criticizing Sirius for sitting on his butt doin nothin and now that he did get up and do something he got himself killed and Snape would say if he had been there he could have done better. Yeah he improved but Snape got worse as he improved. And only to Malfoy's satisfaction. I think he will taunt him just so Malfoy doesn't get suspicious and run to daddy.

Snape has absolutely been needlessly cruel and I could see this playing out two ways. Snape could continue to be horrible to Harry about his potions and quidditch and friends, or he could be horrible to Harry about his father and Sirius. I don't think either really depends on Malfoy becuase Lucius is in jail and whatever the deal is with Snape, how will Malfoy report to Daddy? I think that Snape crossed the line many times while degrading Harry's father in the past, Harry did nothing to Snape and I bet Snape is not beneath making subtle snide comments to Harry despite everything people have said about Snape and honour. I keep thinking back to how many times Snape wanted to expell Harry and tried to interfere with his education- what purpose would this serve except to possibly risk Voldemort coming to power permanently? Anyway before this really turns into a rant (sorry if you think it has) the only thing I see as possibly being a deterent to Snape making comments to Harry is what Harry saw in the pensieve. I would just love to see Harry stand up on his desk and yell out that Snape has dirty grey underwear!:clappy:

Severely Snapped

July 7th, 2003, 2:07 am

It is amazing to me how all some of the "Sirius-and-James-were-wonderful" brigade got out of that gut-wrenching scene in the Pensieve was more ammunition against Snape. :rolleyes: I'd rather have dirty grey underwear than a vicious need to publicly humiliate another human being because I have nothing better to do.

As someone said a ways back, Snape knows where to draw the line. Although he has made many deragatory comments about James in the past (all quite accurate, as it turns out), he has made only one reference to James's actual death. And that was not a gloating reference at all; it sounded more like a warning: "You would have died like your father, too arrogant to believe you might have been mistaken in Black."
(I think Snape is the spy who warned Dumbledore that the Potters would be killed.)

And finally, Harry would never retaliate with anything he saw in Snape's memory because it would incriminate his father. Remember, he was so ashamed of his dad's behavior, he wouldn't even tell Ron and Hermione why he needed to speak with Lupin and Sirius so urgently.

Catwalkk

July 7th, 2003, 2:12 am

I'm not saying that James was a saint, or that he treated Snape right. He didn't. James was absolutely in the wrong, the way he treated Snape. That being said... Snape has been absolutely in the wrong, from the very FIRST day Harry got to school, in the way he treated Harry. Snape taught Harry to despise him, and if Snape had actually been able to control his feelings the way he urged Harry to during their Occlumency lessons, Snape would not have transferred his feeling for James to Harry. Their relationship, while I don't ever see it as having the possibility of being chummy, could have been more like Harry's relationship with Professor McGonagall. But Snape was unable to allow it to be this way.

I think the ONLY reason that Snape will hold his tongue about Sirius' death is because of the memories that Harry saw in the Pensieve. Looking into the Pensieve wasn't an honorable thing for Harry to do, but I think that having this information is going to allow him to keep Snape to his usual petty harangue instead of a more insensitive and nastier attack.

Siriusly

July 7th, 2003, 2:14 am

The problem I have Severely Snapped, isn't ammunition against Snape because of what Harry saw in the pensieve, it is that Severus uses those memories as ammunition against Harry- doesn't anyone else see how wrong that is? Snape transferred all of his hatred toward James to Harry and it has hindered Harry from learning potions properly and from learning occlumency which could have ended even worse than in Sirius' death.

Addition- oh thanks Catwalkk- we posted at the same time- You know I am not a Snape fan, and if someone wants to try and convince me I will consider it, but Snape needs to act like an adult not a teen in angst, especially considering the seriousness of the situation.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 7th, 2003, 2:21 am

Originally posted by Siriusly (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=429243#post429243))
I don't think either really depends on Malfoy becuase Lucius is in jail and whatever the deal is with Snape, how will Malfoy report to Daddy?

Malfoy even said in the 5th book that his father won't be in Azkaban long, the dementors have left. So it very well could depend on Malfoy, Snape has to keep up appearances. As for Snape using the pensieve against Harry, as far as I'm concerned he already has. With what he saw in the pensieve he can now see how Snape sees him. Snape has always viewed Harry to be exactly like his father, and Harry knows this. Know that Harry knows how his father was.....he will see that it will be much harder to get along with Snape. And I can definately see Snape taunting. It is what I have become to see his character resorting to.

Severely Snapped

July 7th, 2003, 2:30 am

Oh, I totally agree with both of you that Snape is absolutely wrong in his treatment of Harry. The sins of the father and all that. While I UNDERSTAND why Snape behaves the way he does, I am not trying to justify it, and I'm sorry if that's what it sounded like. And I didn't mean to jump to conclusions about your intentions, Siriusly; I guess I've just been reading too many posts of people defending James's actions simply because they hate Snape.

I just think there's two sides to the coin, so to speak. Just because Snape is a big butthead most of the time, for example, doesn't excuse Harry looking at his intimate thoughts in the Pensieve. Or blaming Snape for Sirius's death. Again, I UNDERSTAND why Harry does/did these things, but I don't condone them.

Who knows? Maybe there's hope for them yet. JK herself has said that Snape doesn't really HATE Harry, that he RESENTS Harry and thinks it's hate...I guess she would know. And as for Harry thinking he'll "never" forgive Snape, well, what's the old saying? "God loves to make fools of people who say 'never'."

heirofslytherin_dm

July 7th, 2003, 2:34 am

Yes but J.K. also said that we should keep an eye on old Severus Snape. Ya know, I'm not trying to argue with anyone here I'm just sayin it wouldn't surprise me in the least what Snape could bring up to taunt Harry. And if he did bring up Sirius death it would bring up a very interesting conflict between Snape and Harry.

eVaNeScEnCe

July 7th, 2003, 3:09 am

I can definitely imagine Snape saying something along the lines of "If your beloved godfather had just followed orders for once, but of course, he didn't. He always was a mindless, impulsive fool just like your father," but not anything like, "Ha Ha, your stupid godfather is dead and he deserved to die, etc, etc." That would just be spiteful and evil and Snapey is not like that. :D

But I seriously hope those two start working out their differences by next book, time's running out! :sorry:

heirofslytherin_dm

July 7th, 2003, 3:15 am

Well I didn't exactly say he had to rub the death in his face in an extremely cruel way.......I just said taunt. So I definately agree with you. And to say "Snapey" is not like that isn't right. We do not yet know enough about Snape to truely tell what or what he isn't like. You are among I'm sure many who want them to work out their differences I just don't see it happening.

Prosperine

July 7th, 2003, 4:46 am

Originally posted by Catwalkk (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=429321#post429321))

I think the ONLY reason that Snape will hold his tongue about Sirius' death is because of the memories that Harry saw in the Pensieve. Looking into the Pensieve wasn't an honorable thing for Harry to do, but I think that having this information is going to allow him to keep Snape to his usual petty harangue instead of a more insensitive and nastier attack.

I agree- the one thing we learn about snape is that this memory, not any of the things he experienced at home, during his time as a death eater, etc., was the one he chose to pull out of his head. Like the chapter said, it's his worst memory, the one that shames him the most. And one of the first things he says to Harry is "You will tell no one what you saw here" I think it shows that when Snape goes to taunt Harry, there will now always be the nagging fear of Harry telling somewhat what he saw in the pensieve, which may change where snape draws the line on his taunting of Harry... not that he will stop taunting Harry, but he may leave the whole Sirius incident alone.

Also, if he taunts about Sirius, he has to be careful as well because his taunting (if he were to loose his temper) could tip Draco off to the fact that he knew Sirius (in the present, not just his days at Hogwarts) and blow his cover.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 7th, 2003, 12:30 pm

Ok, you make good points but just because Harry saw that in the pensieve doesn't mean he won't give cr-p to him about other things. Knowing how Harry's temper was in Book 5 anything could tick him off. Not to mention that he get's cr-p from Snape everyday in potions. Well one of these times it could set him off, and Harry isn't exactly one to keep Snape's wishes on the top of his priority list. He could let it slip, and that could bring about the Sirius thing. I think we can expect something nasty from Snape. Especially from what we saw in the pensieve. We can't expect him to just be this misunderstood character. He, IMO, will show that he is cruel and not to be taken lightly.

DogStar87

July 7th, 2003, 5:47 pm

Originally posted by Nightwing (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=417073#post417073))
I don't know if he will get over his dislike of Harry, but he might just realise that Harry is not the attention-seeking celebrity he (snape) always imagined.

Very true...Snape's got to come to his senses and realize that Harry is NOT James.

I reckon Snape regrets Sirius's death on some level, no matter how much he detested Sirius. Not in any way matey or intimate of course, but he and Sirius are on the same side, and any good member of the Order wouldn't exactly be too happy about the death of another member.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 8th, 2003, 2:28 am

He dosen't have to realize that Harry isn't James.

"How touching," Snape sneered. "But surely you have noticed that Potter is very like his father?"
"Yes, I have," said Sirius proudly.
"Well then, you'll know he's so arrogant that criticism simply bounces off him," Snape said sleekly.

And then later on Sirius calls him Snivellus. That has got to show the hate between them. They may be on the same side but then again so are Gryffindor and Slytherin, in a way. But you don't see them watching what they say in case they hurt each others feelings. I just don't see that Snape will ever get over the Snivellus thing, and I don't see anything stopping him from bringing up the death. And I am also not sure that he would not be happy, or atleast satisfied in a cruel way about his death.

a1waysthedreamer

July 8th, 2003, 2:40 am

http://www.behindthemasks.com/dawnatello/harrypotter/quiz/padfoot.jpg

Amanalcariel

July 8th, 2003, 3:06 am

I honestly dont think Snape is *that* horrible. But if he is, Harry would probably do something really crazy. Like Klob said, with that temper he's got lately, there is no knowing what he would do.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 8th, 2003, 5:51 am

Yes, I agree, that he is capable of anything at this point. Which I think makes for a better story. He is now this boy who doesn't take cr-p like he used to. I can identify with this, and while I am too chicken to stand up to a teacher like Snape, I know he isn't. And I however do believe Snape is that "horrible". It seems out of character for him not to be.

saffron

July 8th, 2003, 7:23 am

I doubt he would taunt harry. he's not that bad and it is kinda snapes fault that sirius is dead. If he kept on with the occulemerary or whatever lessons harry would have possibly mastered it and voldermort would not have been able to give him that vision of sirius being tortured.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 8th, 2003, 10:56 am

Even still. Snape is never gonna accept responsibility. So it won't affect him one bit to taunt Harry. And as far as Occlumency goes. Harry wasn't trying. He probably would have progressed much farther had he put forth any effort.

Wild Rose

July 8th, 2003, 12:04 pm

I think Harry was trying. After all, he didn't exactly want to have Snape in his head, did he?

@-'-,----------

heirofslytherin_dm

July 8th, 2003, 2:58 pm

Ok, there were plenty of times that he didn't try and clear his mind before going to sleep. And that is what he was told to do so he could get better. No, he didn't want Snape in his head, but he also wanted to see what was behind the door.

sscourtney

July 8th, 2003, 3:31 pm

well i can imagine is hard to release all your emotions and thoughts and snape didn't try *too* hard either but i don't think snape would actually go to potter and start giving snide comments of how stupid sirius was,well maybe if harry do something to upset him i could just imagine him he would end ap as black did

sscourtney

July 8th, 2003, 3:33 pm

of course my statement didn't sound confusing :rolleyes:

Wild Rose

July 8th, 2003, 3:40 pm

I understood it pretty well.

@-'-,------------

padfoots_luv

July 8th, 2003, 3:42 pm

i cant see snape doing that im sure if he could he would but dumbledore probably made him be quite and not taunt harry

tree guardian

July 8th, 2003, 3:48 pm

I doubt Snape would taunt Harry about Sirius's death. That would be ridiculously cruel.

However, I wouldn't be surprised if Snape hinted that Harry be more careful and clearheaded when making future decisions, and (here's the biggy) to listen and respect Snape more.

Thus fulfilling that Need-complex aforementioned by a prefect on a different thread (Inkwolfe, I believe it was).

That would be creepy (but cool and past due) because I think Harry might actually consider buckling down and paying attention and giving credit to where credit is due to Snape and his past efforts to be on the DA side. This s a perfect opportunity for Snape to be a decent guy or at least make his Hardhanded ways toward Harry known, cause we all know Harry is going to be in Snapes Potions class in his 6th year. :)

Besides all that, I am sure the Order will have had a chat about this or something similar without stating the obvious, that such remarks would be inappropriate and not to even go there. Yes, I think Dumbledore would be highly peeved at Snape for making light and mean with Sirius's death and using it as a weapon to "get" at Harry.

poke: :angel:

sscourtney

July 8th, 2003, 4:04 pm

well i think that JK just might do this to Snape.That he will in a moment of outmost rage say something about sirius,but i'm sure he wouldn't mean it.

siriusblack84

July 8th, 2003, 6:38 pm

oh come on!He can't be that cruel!!!!Or can he?I think he might hint it...might...depending on the situation!I don't think that Snape is that happy about Sirius's death....and all their fights(Sirius's and Snape's) were so childish!They just didn't want to let go of that grudge...!Can't really explain what I mean...!I hope that if he says something it won't be that bad because Snape is definetely between my fave. characters but Sirius was,is and WILL be my absolutely favourite forever....AND EVER.......

(just how pathetic is to have a crush in a fictional character who also happened to die recently?????)

Shermia

July 29th, 2003, 10:04 pm

I dont think he would, cause that would just be crossing the line, and Dumbledor would most definatly get on his case then. He did kinda tell Harry that his dad's "sticky fate" was deserved of James... but he never went too far. I consider myself Sirius' widow cause I luved him like a husband. And Gary Oldman plays him nicely, even though I was a little scepticle about him, he is rather hansome as Sirius. Thats all I have to say..... :p :upset: :sad: my poor baby Sirius.

he was
2 cute
2 be
---------
4 gotten

heirofslytherin_dm

July 31st, 2003, 12:55 am

Ok....as I have stated previously. While Snape watches his tongue in front of Dumbledore (cuz let's face it..he isn't stupid enough to make a remark like that in front of him) he doesn't exactly watch what he says in private with him. I mean had he taken into consideration Dumbledore's feelings in every instance, I don't think we would have seen any taunting between them. The thing is though that Snape does what he feels he must. He has to put this little "hero" in his place. And what better way to do that. If he says it like "You best be careful. You don't want the same thing that happened to Sirius happen to you." it may tick Harry off. But Snape can play it off as looking out for him. And he would still keep that cruel image that I have come to expect. I didn't exactly say he had to take it to extremes. I merely stated that he would bring it up at some point.

Loz

July 31st, 2003, 1:06 am

Severus always does what he thinks is right - unless it involves Harry. This is my perception, anyway. He seems to me to be very moralistic... his morals just differ from everyone else's. Snape projects his hatred of the Marauders onto Harry, there's no doubt of that, and this occasionally makes him lose his head, his control *one other reason he hates Harry*.

Snape has been known to say hateful comments before, and I could see him doing it again... but less out of hatred for Harry, and more for keeping up appearances, if he is still pretending to work for the dark lord. Somehow I think Snape would probably hold his tongue, though. He has seen Harry's memories of being bullied. He has shown curiosity and confusion towards Harry.

It'll be a cold day in hell before Snape ever compliments Harry, but I can't see him taunting him just for the sake of taunting. He is cruel to an extent, but unless he felt he had to I don't think he would go that far.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 31st, 2003, 1:12 am

I never said it would be for the sake of taunting. But yes he will do it (i think) so as to keep up his image. I mean what would you deduce being Malfoy (that's a kewl thought). Your dad might be out of Azkaban already. You now know what happened to Sirius. Your dad is really close to Snape. Well wouldn't you almost expect Snape to say something. Even if it was just a tiny little mention. I think if he didn't he would do one of two things. 1) take it upon himself to say something (which would be far worse because Harry would think twice about cursing them if it were a teacher, but with Malfoy that is a different story.) or 2) he would run to daddy dearest and that would evoke questioning from Lucius to Snape. And I don't think Snape would want to be in that particular situation.

shelly_potter

July 31st, 2003, 3:32 am

no snape wouldn't do anything like that.
i think during the course of time harry and snape will begin liking each other and snape will be a second godfather to harry.

cloud_9_83

July 31st, 2003, 4:22 am

I don't think that Snape would do that...I think that a lot of the reason that Snape has a problem with harry is because he feels like harry has lived this charmed life but after the occlumency lessons i would hope that snape would realize that harrys life has been far from perfect and even though snape didn't like sirius...harry has just lost his father figure...

writer007

July 31st, 2003, 11:16 am

Snape taunts Harry about his dead father all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if he mentions Sirius too.

STUPID SNAPE, YET SUCH A FUNNY CHARACTER! sigh.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 31st, 2003, 11:22 am

I don't think that they will ever like each other very much and I highly doubt that he will ever be a second godfather. The feud between them is just too strong. He knows for a fact that Harry hasn't led a charmed life. His parents were killed when he was 1. He lived with muggles for 10 years. He came in to the wizarding not knowing anything, no preconceptions at all. He has faced Voldemort a total of 5 times. He has heard his parents screams and deaths in his mind in the face of Dementors. His only father-like figure (Sirius) is now dead helping out the cause for the Order, and protecting Harry in the process. And let's face it, Snape wasn't exactly a friend of Sirius' and was always blaming Sirius for sittin on his butt doin nothing. Do you actually call that a charmed life? I mean yeah, Snape has faced his share of difficulties but Harry hasn't exactly had an easy time in life either. I think Snape is afraid to get to close to him. Or actually he is afraid that he will find out how different Harry is from James. I'm not sure he's ready to admit that he was wrong about him.

Ellen

July 31st, 2003, 8:55 pm

Snape has rules. He has to know the truth about Neville's parents, yet he's never once used that against him. This is on the same lines.

As for the lessons, Snape was also getting burned and having assorted curses thrown at him by a kid who had a limited ability to choose how he reacted, a kid who may suddenly mentally link with Voldemort at any moment. I don't know how much we can blame him for being unpleasant Occlumency.

Also, although Snape threw Harry out after he used the pensieve, Dd and other people knew about this (Dd is familiar with the event when he talks to Harry). I think Dd decided this was something Harry couldn't learn from Snape.

However, it could be argued that Snape did try to signal Harry to restart lessons. The cover was that Harry was taking 'remedial potions.' Not making one snide comment during an entire class and then breaking his bottle to give him a zero could have been considered a heavy handed hint that the remedial lessons needed to be continued.

Siriusly

July 31st, 2003, 9:07 pm

However, it could be argued that Snape did try to signal Harry to restart lessons. The cover was that Harry was taking 'remedial potions.' Not making one snide comment during an entire class and then breaking his bottle to give him a zero could have been considered a heavy handed hint that the remedial lessons needed to be continued.

I really don't think Snape would have any problem with just telling Harry in front of the class that his potion was terrible and to report for remedial lessons if he wanted to continue occlumency. I think this is just another perfect example of Snapes complete inability to let go of his teenage hatred of James, and vindictiveness to take it out on Harry. Dumbledore knew about Snape stopping the lessons but he was gone and couldn't do anything about it. I hope that Snape must be doing something really important in order for Dumbledore to put up with his treatment of students.

Black's_Widow

July 31st, 2003, 9:22 pm

Snape has rules. He has to know the truth about Neville's parents, yet he's never once used that against him. This is on the same lines..
I don't know, Snape nevered hated Neville's parents. That would be to cruel even for Snape to use against Neville. Snape hated James and Sirius, so he really has no problems insulting both of them . I hope that Harry and Snape can learn to control their tempers.

Siriusly

July 31st, 2003, 9:26 pm

Black's Widow- I just love that name!

I feel like although Harry should learn to control his temper, it is not Harry's resposibility to make peace with Snape. I don't even think it can happen. Snape has to come to terms with his bad memories on his own. I'm not saying they will ever be friends but before Snape even met Harry, he hated him.

Black's_Widow

July 31st, 2003, 9:46 pm

Black's Widow- I just love that name!

Thanks about the name!! :clap:

I feel like although Harry should learn to control his temper, it is not Harry's resposibility to make peace with Snape. I don't even think it can happen. Snape has to come to terms with his bad memories on his own. I'm not saying they will ever be friends but before Snape even met Harry, he hated him.
I agree with you, it is not HArry resposibility to make peace with Snape. Snape has to realize that he is speaking to a boy not an adult. Snape speaks to Harry, like he spoke to Sirius, and he really shouldn't.

Shibi

July 31st, 2003, 9:54 pm

I will choose to be optimistic towards the enmity brewing between Snape and Harry. Several posters are bringing up Harry's comment about his absolute refusal to forgive Snape. I believe that this exclamation was purely emotional with no thought put into the long-term consequences. Harry will consider all that has happened to him over his 5th year and hopefully gain large doses of maturity during his stay at Privet Drive. Perhaps next year he will be more capable of handling his emotions around Snape. Maybe I am expecting too much but I think it would be dreadful to have such bitter emotions between the two lay unresolved. As for any snide Sirius remarks, I'm leaning more towards the belief that Snape will refrain from such biting comments-- unless, strongly provoked.

heirofslytherin_dm

July 31st, 2003, 10:22 pm

Any little thing could provoke Snape when it comes to Gryffindors, specificly Harry. It wouldn't take much to set him off. The way Harry's temper went in Book 5 anything could set him off. Snape poking fun in Potions could bring about a Snivellus comment and you know what Snape's reaction might be. Something about Sirius perhaps?

vickygirl4

August 1st, 2003, 1:36 am

I think Snape is capable of taunting Harry about Sirius, afterall, he always makes fun of James in front of Harry. But I think that comments about Sirius will hurt Harry more, because he actually knew Sirius! THis might cause some real tension between Snape and HArry, but then again, it might also bring them closer together . . .

WeasleyIsOurKing

August 1st, 2003, 11:20 am

Jebus Christ... if I were Harry I don't know what I would do to Snape. Probably put all the curses and jinxes that I know on him. Or convince Peeves to wreck his office or something. :rasp:

WeasleyIsOurKing

August 1st, 2003, 11:22 am

MY_SIRIUS

August 1st, 2003, 2:00 pm

I read a fanfic from snape's point of view when dumbledore tells him that sirius is dead, he had some diferent thoughts but then said something at last that made me cry 'how tauntless the grimmauld place be wtihout him?' but can he really think so? maybe after sirius' death he realizes that all that hatred towards hames & sirius was a 'school boy's grudge' & regrets his previous behaveiour, but he didn't think so when james died! so that's not very likely &what's more is that JKr did mention that we should keep an on eye on old severus, it seems he's not really that trustworthy as dumbledore thinks. after all, from Ootp we have learned that that dumbledore can mistake mistakes too!

Girl

August 1st, 2003, 4:52 pm

MY_SIRIUS- I feel the same way about Snape, in that he can't be trusted all that much. I do however think that Snape is loyal to Dumbledore BUT only Dumbledore. I don't think he would think twice about betraying any other member of the Order. From what I've seen in PoA Snape only cares about himself and fame and if he had to betray anyone for fame he would.

I don't think that Snape cares that much that Sirius died. To him Sirius's death was just 'Oh he's dead? Too bad.' However Snape won't taunt Harry over Sirius death at least not stright away (I hope). If Snape did then I'm sure that Dumbledore would be very mad and not forgive Snape for it. After all Dumbledore knows what Harry is going through and wouldn't want Snape to add to Harry's stress.

heirofslytherin_dm

August 1st, 2003, 9:10 pm

Dumbledore may not want him to do it, or add any stress. But if you think about it, him keeping all of that stuff away from Harry is enough to cause stress. And he admitted that it was a mistake. If Snape says anything and Dumbledore hears about it Snape can play it off as a mistake. Dumbledore more than anyone should know how mistakes can sometimes happen. Snape will do it and get away with it I'm sure.

Shibi

August 1st, 2003, 9:24 pm

heirofslytherin_dm

August 2nd, 2003, 12:46 am

Maybe it's not exactly fame he means. I think they meant fame as in recognition. There are people who have their doubts whether he truly switched sides or not. So by doing something to gain "fame"/recognition. He can prove where his loyalties lie.

Siriusly

August 2nd, 2003, 8:49 am

Remember in PoA Snape only wanted to capture Sirius and also place blame on Lupin. He would not hear them out at all. No doubt he thought there was no way he thought they could be innocent (although I still wonder why if Snape was a DE he didn't know about Pettigrew) Anyway Snape was happy as all get out about earning himself an order of Merlin, and furious when he lost it. I think Snape does crave attention or recognition. Also remember how smug he was when Malfoy suggested that Snape become the new Headmaster?

vickygirl4

August 2nd, 2003, 9:21 am

I don't think Snape wants fame, just respect. I trully believe that he is good and I think he wants people to realize that he is good. Everyone (Ron, Harry, Sirius, etc.) keep accusing him of still working for Voldemort, even though he has saved Harry's life on numerous occosaions and has done a lot for the order. He probably feels guilty about his short time as a death eater and it hurts him that people think he is still evil, so he just wants people to realize that he is good.

heirofslytherin_dm

August 2nd, 2003, 9:27 am

I don't think it is just for reasons of good intentions or rather making people find out that he's good. He could do that without doing something unbelieveably extraordinary. But I mean in PoA he was expecting Order of Merlin for his capture of Black. Someone just in it to make people realize who he really is and what side he is really on. Would not be so keen on getting an award for doing a good deed.

Siriusly

August 2nd, 2003, 10:40 am

If Snape wanted people to believe he was good, then he should act that way all the time and stop tormenting students

Girl

August 2nd, 2003, 12:17 pm

I don't think that Snape is 100% good. I'm sure that in the next 2 books he will do something that will shock us all. Snape is someone we need to keep an eye on and we should not be to sure that he won't turn on the good side.

eVaNeScEnCe

August 2nd, 2003, 1:02 pm

I too would be absolutely distraught(not to mention really ticked off) if Harry and Snape's hateful relationship lays unresolved by the end of the series. And it would be completely silly if there isn't at least a truce or acknowledgement of peace betwee them because I believe that the ONLY reason(and I mean the ONLY, REAL reason) Snape DISLIKES(not hates) Harry is simply because he sees Harry as arrogant and conceited as his father was. Snape has to come to a point where he sees Harry as a completely different entity and accepts him for who he truly is (think of it as a spur-of-the-moment epiphany). That doesn't necessarily mean a budding father/son friendship should spring up between the two of them, but there should at least be a level of respect and acceptance built from each of the two characters. I mean, J.K. can't end the series with those two still on unfriendly terms can she? If she is, then what was the point on building so much animosity between them in the first place if it wasn't going to be resolved by the end? Kind of pointless if you ask me.

~Proud FANatic of Severus "Slytherin" Snape since June2003~ :nc:

Siriusly

August 2nd, 2003, 1:14 pm

I don't think Snape and Harry have to reconcile at the end of the series. I think their relationship is just one of those things that will never be. I don't think the end of the series is going to be this happily ever after, I mean Harry may not even survive, or Snape may not survive, or both. I think they may have to work together, but I doubt they will ever be friends, and judging by the way Snape taunted Sirius I think that Snape and Harry will always have an adversarial relationship, you know only on the same side when true evil is afoot. Even if they each help each other or do something to shine, I can imagine it leaving a bitter taste in the other ones mouth. Almost like, "how dare you help me when I hate you so much!"

Feye

November 19th, 2003, 11:53 am

Snape hates harry, because he sees James in him, but remember, he saved Harry a few times too. Remember Quirrel said: Yes, he hates you, but he doesn't want you dead.
And when Harry shouted: "He's got Padfoot at the place where it's hidden!" he did checked for Sirius and later when Harry didn't come back he became WORRIED and called up the other members of the Order, right?
Snape still has a heart, or Dumbledore wouldn't trust him. Dumbledore's no fool. (well, except for trusting Quirrel... but he wasn't bad YET when he was employed)

RonnyBoy

November 19th, 2003, 1:11 pm

I don't think Snape will do this at all - I think for once we will see a more gentle side of him, and he will be sorry for Harry's loss.

Vigilance

November 19th, 2003, 10:19 pm

I think if we are going to see Snape try, it will be in the 6th book, but i don't think Harry will allow him to sympathize or understand what he's going through. On the other hand, it would be a lovely escalation of their enmity; Snape glad Sirius is gone, Harry blaming Snape for it (nstead of himself).

Jill

November 19th, 2003, 10:43 pm

Yes Snape should, if he wants to, start to show a sign of letting Harry off in book 6 but I do have a feeling that it will not be by much if any. As I just can not see them getting on due to what has happened to Sirius. The change will come from Harry not Snape though as Snapey is too stuck in a rut.

hesdead-dealwithit

November 19th, 2003, 11:28 pm

Remember Hary swearing that he would never forgive Snape? That is just a sign of things to come. Harry may still holds Snape partly to blame for what happened with Sirius, even though Snape did everything right. Regardless, they will never get along. The final watershed moment was when Harry said that he would never forgive Snape.

GryffindorSeeker

November 19th, 2003, 11:33 pm

I don't think that Snape will act sorry for Harry. He will probably act mostly the same, but if he acts any different there may be less snide comments, but they won't be gone.

rotsiepots

November 19th, 2003, 11:50 pm

Snape can't act sorry for Harry; he has to maintain certain pretences if he wants to fool Death Eaters' children, most notably Malfoy, that he's still the same malevolent prat.

Snape didn't like Sirius, so I doubt he's particularly sorry he's dead. Perhaps somewhere in his shrivelled heart he can recognise that Harry has had a really terrible life and that Sirius's death was the icing on the cake, but he wouldn't show it.

Magi

November 20th, 2003, 8:01 am

I don't think Snape would dig into Harry about Sirius' death.

Hate is one thing, respect for the dead is another.

Jill

November 20th, 2003, 5:19 pm

I can see Snape and Harry getting a little heated over Siriuses death due to the fact that Harry tried to pin the blame on Snape.

I have a feeling that this heated discussion is going to end up with another back in time chat about the maurders again and how Sirius was the really bully and not the good man Harry thinks he was.

Perhaps this discussion might resolve something between them as it is obvious that Snape needs to get the past events off his chest.

muggleguest

November 20th, 2003, 5:52 pm

I can see Snape and Harry getting a little heated over Siriuses death due to the fact that Harry tried to pin the blame on Snape.

Yes, I can see Snape coming back at him with a comment about whose bright idea was it to go haring off to the MoM in the middle of the night thereby requiring an Order rescue team, hmmm?

I don't think Snape will even mention Sirius to Harry, unless Harry brings his name up first.

[Pretty]_[Unicorn]

November 20th, 2003, 8:26 pm

If Snape does I hope Harry gives him a beat down. I can't find it in Snape to comment about Sirius especially after Sirius' death but there's always a chance from good o'le Snapey.

deadlocked

November 20th, 2003, 8:41 pm

If Snape does I hope Harry gives him a beat down. I can't find it in Snape to comment about Sirius especially after Sirius' death but there's always a chance from good o'le Snapey.

That is extremly possible but i dont think snapes that dumb!!

UselessCharmMaster

December 20th, 2003, 12:26 pm

Yes, I can see Snape coming back at him with a comment about whose bright idea was it to go haring off to the MoM in the middle of the night thereby requiring an Order rescue team, hmmm?

I don't think Snape will even mention Sirius to Harry, unless Harry brings his name up first.

Neither do I. But maybe Harry will start a confrontation; and that could be goot for both of them.

Celestine_Adams

December 23rd, 2003, 4:00 am

I mean he was criticizing Sirius for sitting on his butt doing nothing. There is nothing to stop him from taunting Harry about his death.

Amen, heir! I totally agree, especially if Harry does something that rubs Snape the wrong way.

If Snape does I hope Harry gives him a beat down.

Me too, Pretty Unicorn. :agree:

Nys

December 24th, 2003, 12:10 am

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Amen, heir! I totally agree, especially if Harry does something that rubs Snape the wrong way.

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Me too, Pretty Unicorn. :agree:

But seriously how can Harry really say that much to Snape, it was after all Harry's stupidity that caused Sirius too be killed. If only he'd remember that that horrible little creature didn't have to tell him the truth or even if he'd remembered that stupid mirror!!!!! Ultimately if anyone is to blame (and I'm not laying any blame) its Harry's. Although I agree with Dumbledore, and Sirius would have wanted to go that way and it was sending him stir crazy sitting in that house all of the time. I'm actually starting to think that it way have been suicide on Sirius's part.