DA, Sorting Hat's New Song, Slytherin

[Starrlight]

O.K., for my first post, I didn't do a search and ended up repeating a topic--I searched for Slytherin and came up with 535, but with the DA, too, I came up with nothing--so here's hoping this is new! All those threads, how are you to know if it's new?

I'm disappointed in the way Rowling portrays Slytherin. In the first book, Ron says all wizards who've gone bad were Slytherin--now clearly that's prejudice and Ron's view rather than Rowling's, and we don't know about Wormtail, a Gryffindor, yet, or that Snape might be on the good side.

But Rowling's gotten no better--why give the sorting hat a new song in Book V, and not show any attempts to find good in any of the Slytherins? There should have been a Slytherin in Dumbledore's Army. I thought she would do something with the Slytherin who could see the Thestrals--do you think she will later? Will she ever have the four houses united in any way? Ambition can be a good thing, and bravery can lead to foolishness. In some threads I've seen folks refer to the problem as Gryffindors being "too cool for the school" and all Slytherins as evil. I love the books and think that they are wonderful--but I think that is a very serious weakness.

[Robin]

Maybe Hermione didn't ask any Slytherins to join the DA.

[Starrlight]

Good point, Robin--but she didn't ask Ginny's male friends either, they heard it being discussed.

[I LoVe pAdFoOt]

I agree it would've been great to see a couple Slytherings joine Dumbledore's army, but as you mentioned, Rowling has already predispositioned the readers to believe that all Slytherins are against Gryffindors for that matter. I haven't seen one Gryffindor befriend a Slythering. Maybe it's just the school competition in which the House Cup is either Gryffindor's or Slytherin's as well as the Quidditch Cup, or maybe it's because of Malfoy's influence that maybe IF a Slytherin had agreed to join DA then by what Rowling has made us belive they would've ratted about the secret organization to Umbridge or would've taken the oppourtinity to use the Dark arts learned in the lessons against the other members. something of that sort. I do agree that it is generalization and that it's not right, I seem to have some sort of liking for the Slytherin crew, even though Rowling portrays them all as snobs and mean kids.

[Siriusly]

I think the point of the song was to show that Salazar wanted things a certain way and it ended up costing him the frienship of the others. I thought the song was about making choices. As far as Ron being prejudice, no one knew about Wormtail when he said that, and maybe up until then every witch or wizard that went bad was from slytherin. That is to say- not all slytherins are bad but all peolple who are bad went to slytherin. All stereotypes are based in some sort of truth.
As far as the DA is concerned it really seems that the school is divided. Even in the beginning books the other houses supported the Gryffindor quidditch team against Slytherin. This is clearly not a good situation and I bet JKR is going somewhere with it since the situation is escalating.

Correction- I just realized that it was Hagrid who said the line about not a witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't from Slytherin. It was Ron in the movie but Hagrid told Harry the day they went to Diagon Alley, which I think further validates the idea that up until Peter Pettigrew, it may have been truth, and not a stereotype.

[Starrlight]

Siriusly:
Really good points, I never thought about the DA from the point of view of the school divided as a plot point rather than in the abstract.
Any opinions about the Slytherin who could see thestrals, though--could he be the one who crosses the line between houses?
Will she ever unite the school, or will the Slytherins be out until the very end?

[Inkwolf]

I'm quite sure that JKR IS going somewhere with this, indeed. She would hardly keep telling us the school must be unified, and then keep it divided for no reason. Someone has to reach out to Slytherin House, and some Slytherin has to reach back.

My bets are on Hermione trying to make some sort of overture next book.

I'm sure that plenty of decent people in Slytherin are never going to be given a chance by the rest of the school, who see spoiled bully Draco, and bitter, angry Snape as the Slytherin poster boys....

[Prof.Aze]

If the Slytherins knew the DA would they join? I mean those lot hates the Gryffindors a lot and remembering that it's the Gryffindors who started it. Maybe JKR sees it in a better perpective. Maybe if she lets a Slytherin join maybe it would be a spy for Umbridge and all that stuff so JKR never let a slytherin join so that it would be a peaceful club.

[Mutant for Hire]

The Houses are a bad idea in general. I think that the Sorting Hat was pretty much saying that in his opening song. It openly questioned what it was doing, whether it was right to quarter the students. The fact of the matter is that not all Slytherins may be that bad going in, but after spending seven years with the Slytherins, and seven years of everyone assuming that they were a certain way because they were Slytherins, they might well go over to the dark side, just because. If you're constantly accused of being something, then sooner or later you might as well just do it. And there is the fact that having four Houses set in competition against each other like that does not breed good will in general. You also wonder what happens to those poor students who have a change of heart in midstream. Or undergo some profoundly changing experience.

I also tend to wonder how exactly one quarter of the students could be best suited for each House. Of course there could be the idea that the Houses vary in size, in which case I'd expect possibly Hufflepuff to be the largest and possibly Slytherin to be the smallest. Of course in this series I could wonder a whole lot of things really. Trying to impose too much reality on it is a bad idea.

[Ecthelion]

Also, about being in the Slytherin house....The other houses, as we know, do not hold the Slytherins in high regard or trust, therefore not associating with them. This has another consequence however, on the slytherins. I think that once they join, and feel this tension and exclusion from the other houses, they turn to their own house and what it holds.....kids like Draco. And draco being the "persuasive" person he is would probably convey and pursue the profile of the slytherin house, in other words, making the slytherin house the way we know it to be now. With people like him, the atmosphere is changed and first years or potentially good kids are defiled by people like Draco turning into "followers" eager to impress Draco-likes by doing the evil and betraying deeds Slytherin is known for. It's a deadly cycle and probably continues year after year because once draco leaves, some admirer of his will want to take up his spot....and it starts all over again.

About Hermione....I am sure that she thought of asking a Slytherin, and probably looked for a decent one. But for some reason, did not choose to say something/or did not find one that was totally trustworth. After all, this was a highly dangerous plan she was going through and one person could ruin it all. She probably just played it safe as she could and picked the people she knew to be trustworthy. Unfortunetly, there weren't any slytherins.

Oh, and one more thing, we have to keep in mind that we are learning a lot of our "facts" from ron, who is not a very insightful and thoughtful person. Take the giant remarks for example. What about Grawp? He wasn't that murderous after all. Plus, there are always exceptions, which I am sure there are for all the houses. So we really shouldn't take Ron to seriously....keeping his comments in mind, of course, but not follow it so blindly. He has a rather consistant habit of "twisting" his "facts" :)

[Inkwolf]

Okay, things vaguely like this have been said before, but now we have Hermione's comment to add to it.


We know the Sorting Hat told Harry he'd do well in Slytherin...

We now know that the Sorting Hat wanted to put Hermione in Ravenclaw.

Ron is probably a natural Gryffindor, as all his family were.

What about Neville? The hat took forever to place him, could it have wanted to put him in Hufflepuff, but Neville begged for Gryffindor?

So, in a way...all four houses ARE united, but they are all united inside Gryffindor.

Do you think this may be important or have plot possibilities? Maybe Harry is the one who will have to bring Slytherin House online with the program?

[Starrlight]

In thinking more about Siriusly's post, everything in the books are Harry's point of view. Maybe the problem is that we have to wait for Harry to realize that not all Slytherins are bad. I loved Sirius's "world not divided into Death Eaters and good people" line. I would be very happy if unifying the houses proves to be a big theme for book #6. What if the boy who saw Thestrals saw a Death Eater kill someone? Maybe he will seek out the Gryffindors. I will be very disappointed if we have to wait for book 7--this is an important theme.
I posted something like this on another thread--probably a no-no to repeat myself--this is my first day on a bb, though, so have patience!

[FredRocksMySocks]

I think that it's not a weakness so much as it is enlightening to the way things are at hogwarts. how 'bad' people tend to stick together in groups, where they can be stronger, and how divided the wizarding world is with the whole blood issue.

[Starrlight]

So Fredrocks, does that mean that you think all Slytherins are bad? That someone with a pureblood prejudice because of the way they were raised couldn't change their mind thanks to a good education? It is a weakness-it's a vast oversimplification of the world. It might not matter so much if Rowling hadn't explicitly stated on occassion that the issue of prejudice is important to her. I will willingly go along, as I said, if she really tackles it in the next book and the sorting hat's new song really means something. I willing to accept that there's a "Harry's point of view" issue keeping us from really seeing into the Slytherin world--but that we will see into it once Harry does. That's what I'm hoping for anyway.

[ChaliceInnana]

Speaking of that sorting hat song...could Hufflepuff have been placed any lower on the house totem pole?

Slytherin, ambitious, pure bloods
Gryffindor, courageous and heroic
Ravenclaw, brilliant

And Hufflepuff gets the rejects! She doesn't care! She'll teach anybody! The wizarding world needs ditchdiggers too!

[Perdita]

Okay, first of all, will you people relax? There’s still two books to go.

In OOTP, we saw the DA, which consists of students from Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw and Gryffindor. Why didn’t we see any Slytherins in it? What where the Slytherin students doing? They chose to side with Umbridge and work as her officers in the Inquisitorial Squad.

Plotwise, how could a Slytherin student join DA, even secretly, when most of the others had joined the IS? If you were a Slytherin student, would you join the DA when all your housemates have joined the IS? Would you be willing to be the odd man out? Remember, many believed that Harry is a liar in OOTP. They didn’t believe that Voldemort was truly back. Why would they risk so much for a guy who could be lying about everything?

As for the HP series, the Slytherin students have always been portrayed as the bullies and the meanies. If, all of a sudden, Rowling portrayed a couple of Slytherins who go against the party line, would it be believable to the reader? Why would these students all of a sudden choose to help Harry and go against their housemates? Wouldn’t that seem contrived to you?

Perhaps what happened to the IS in OOTP is what will drive a few Slytherin students to start considering helping Harry in the next two books? For one, they see first hand the horrors of following the likes of Malfoy instead of helping Harry. Two, the entire Wizarding world now acknowledges that Harry was right, and that Voldemort has returned.

That is my guess. It’s what I’m hoping to see. But I will not make criticism of Rowling’s values and storytelling technique until the end of book 7.

[Starrlight]

So you don't think it's contrived that every single Slytherin is a bully or a meany? You don't think it's contrived that every single Gryffindor, Ravenclaw, and Hufflepuff is good? Hmmm, sound like the definition of contrived to me!
Though come to think of it, all Republicans are evil....hmmm, maybe the house of Slytherin isn't so far fetched!
Just kidding--I'm a lone democrat in a family of Republicans, all my sibs married Republicans, they're raising little Repbulicans...you get my drift.
I agree though, Perdita, that Rowling will be tackling this in the next two books. She needs to get a move on, though, book 7 would be too late.

[Jessica]

FYI I did a search using "good" and "Slytherin" and found a couple of similar threads

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11233&highlight=good+slytherin

and

http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11559&highlight=good+slytherin

[a1waysthedreamer]

something i've been wondering about slytherin: we know that salazar slytherin only wanted pure-bloods to attend hogwarts. presumably, he only allows pure-bloods into his house as well. in book 5, sirius mentions how few pure-bloods there are left. so each year during the sorting, does that mean very few students become slytherins?

any thoughts? or i just rambling...

[FredRocksMySocks]

no, i wondered that too... i dunno, i started a post about that somewhere, and discussed it with a few people and they said that it must be like your WHOLE family doesn't have to be all wizards, just the most recent generations, or that halfbloods are alright, because they're against further 'unpure' blood. you get? I dunno. makes sense, and given the figures, i think we'll have to accept it.

[Starrlight]

Alwaysthe--and along the same lines, how did Tom Riddle get in? He wasn't a pure blood!
Is Riddle/Voldemort a pure blood? Gosh, it seems like I should know that!

[theboywholived77]

yeah, riddle is a HALF-BLOOD! it is out choices, that show who we truly are. he was in slytherin, b/c he chose to be. just as harry could have been in slytherin, but chose gryffindor. everyone needs to understand that what really matters is what a wizard or witch considers the values of a house to be. harry chose griffindor b/c he chose to be a good wizard. even though being in slytherin wouldn't make him evil, he thought that it was evil, thus causing him to choose gryffindor. whether or not slytherin was an evil house or not is irrelevent. harry thought it was, and we see his character through his decsision that he wants to be a good wizard. like someone said, gryfindor is like a unity of the houses. people who are ambitious and cunning (harry), intelligent (hermione) and possibly none of the above (neville), CHOOSE to be in gryffindor b/c to them it represents good. so basically, gryffindor is filled with students who choose to fight to good fight, and naturally brave students. this isn't to say that ravenclaw's and hufflepuffs and slytherins are bad. they all have there own seperate characteristics, none of which are evil. ambition or intelligence aren't evil, but if one chooses to be evil, ambition and intelligence could surely help them become this. a house doesn't define somone, just shows someof their characteristics. they are still what they choose to be. the reasons gryffindors are held in a high regard is b/c the have a particular hunger to do what it right and be as far away from evil as possible. this shows that no matter what their characteristics (ambition, intelligence , etc) they have a specific desire to be brave and stand up for what they believe in. ravenclaws and hufflepuffs and slytherins may what this too, but when being sorted dont choose what they want then, but just allow themselves to be sorted by their characteristics. this isn't to say that they have less desire to do good then gryffindors. the gryffindors may be heroic, but jsut b/c you aren't heroic doesn't mean that you wont fight the good fight.

also, how could anyone question JKR's values? have you not seen the huge messages of unity in these books? jeese, the sorting hat song was all about unity, and dumbledore always has messages or unity and co-operation. even with other school like durmstrang (sp?). JKR is definitly going somewhere with this, the sorting song wouldn't be about unity for nothing. slytherins are definetly not all bad, if they were evil, why would dumbledore allow them in the school? some may be (hem hem draco) but only b/c he chooses to. the reason why they are percieved to be bad is b/c it is a known fact that most evil wizards are from slytherin. that is a fact, not a stereotype. thus far in the books, it is clear that no slytherin has openly seperated themself from the stereotypes that are placed on them. it is up to a slytherin to seperate themselves from the stereotype, then up to a non-slytherin to in effect embrace them. also, all the house are generally in freindly competition against eachother. a big reason why wizards from other houses may not like slytherin house is simply b/c they have a habit of almost always winning everything.but for my final point, just think of it from a point of view of a hufflepuff for example. the onl slytherins that speak up are ones like malfoy, who is genuinely evil. the head of slytherin is mean to all those not in his house, and favors the slytherins. a giant monster was set on the school in the name of slytherin and voldemort himself is the heir. you cannot blame a student for somewhat sterotyping slytherins. but all that matters is that if a slythering seperates himself, then other students must embrace them. and dont forget, gryffindor and ravenclaw are not prejeduce for only wanting brave people or intelligent people in their house, they are more just showing favoritism. thats not evil, escpecially when they co-exist and co-operate. it is slytherin who is prejeduce, only believing that pure-bloods should be allowed in TO THE ENTIRE SCHOOL, and refusing to respect any kids who were not pureblood. slytherin discriminated, gryffindor had nothing against the intelligent or the pureblood. slytherin himself was evil, gryffindor was noble.

[theboywholived77]

EEP! sorry about all the spelling errors...

[Omi]

erm, werent most of the slytherins heloing Umbridge? Part of the inqusturial (sp?) squad? Even if the few who werent went, wouldnt the rest notcie something? I dont think it is trying to make Slytherin look bad, it just wouldnt be right to help AND go againstUmbridge at the same time?

[nox]

Hermione wouldn't have asked a Slytherin to join the DA, probably because she is predjudice against them; and, lets face it, all of the Slytherins THAT WE HAVE MET are rotten and would've tattled unless there was something in it for them to stop them.

Slytherins are not all bad people, just ambitious and willing to do what it takes. Not only pure-bloods are in Slytherin, Tom Riddle was not a pure-blood. The Sorting Hat didn't say that Slytherins are all bad people, it said that they are ambitious, etc. It didn't say that Salazar was a bad person, just that his ideas didn't jive with other three.

[theboywholived77]

but lets face it, slytherin (not the house) was a bad person. he was prejeduce, and considered the students that didn't meet what he thought should be the house requirements inferior. the other 3 did not. and he thought that only purebloods should be in the school, while the other 3 had no objection to who was in the school, they just preffered to teach students who were like themselves.

[nox]

but there are lots of things that could've made him think that way that do not make him (Salazar Slytherin) a bad person. He lived a hundred-something years ago, they burned witches at the stake back then! If another race burnt your race at the stake for no more reason then race, wouldn't you hate them or be prejudice against them? Would YOU want to teach them??

[Starrlight]

I'm starting to think that some of you think these people actually exist and that worries me a little...
The point is that real world DOES NOT WORK THIS WAY and when Rowling writes as if it does, she's letting folks get away with thinking that everything's black and white. That's a dangerous idea. Every writer is in some ways a teacher--if only about what's in her head--and I'm saying that the lesson worries me a little. Don't talk about Slytherin as if they are real people--separate it out and talk about Rowling as a writer!

[Perdita]

She lets everyone think the world is black and white? Does she really?

We had believed all along that the Maruaders were cool dudes, with the exception of Pettigrew.

Now, we see that James and Sirius were not always as honourable as we thought. We find out that Snape actually has a good reason to hate them beyond one prank that almost got Snape killed.

Snape himself continues to be a mystery.

That's a whole lot of gray, if you ask me.

[Cat]

I don't think it's Rowling's fault that the Slytherins are seen as bad, I think it's a fault of the fans. You're all allowing yourselves to agree with Harry that 'power=bad'. Why do you think driving towards power is a bad thing? It's actually a wonderful trait to have, and it's a trait associated with Slytherins. Slytherin characters are natural born leaders. How can 'power' be a bad word and 'empowering' be a good word?

Some people would also argue that there's also nothing wrong in having pride of lineage.

[Perdita]

Originally posted by Starrlight (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=439544#post439544))
So you don't think it's contrived that every single Slytherin is a bully or a meany? You don't think it's contrived that every single Gryffindor, Ravenclaw, and Hufflepuff is good? Hmmm, sound like the definition of contrived to me!


No, I don't think it's contrived because they all have a reason to act the way they do. Rowling has laid out the groundwork to show us the motives behind the things that Malfoy, Crabbe, Goyle and Pansy do (excuse me if i don't list all the Slytherin students in my memory).

If any of them were to all of a sudden turn good, that would be contrived because there is no groundwork for what motivated that change.

Re: Book 7 Redemption

Why would it be too late? In many stories, it is usually the ending where the villains realize their error in judgement and they either start to seek redemption or they don't, for whatever reason. The question now is, do you simply want to see them seek redemption? Or do you want to see Malfoy and his friends to seek redemption earlier? And why earlier?

[Cat]

I agree with Perdita, but I also want to add that it's absurd to say that every single Gryffindor, Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw is portrayed as good. Because, frankly, they're not. Peter Pettigrew was probably a Gryffindor and J. K. Rowling has introduced several characters who are not Slytherins that we all absolutely abhor once that character starts slagging off Harry (like Ernie whatsit in COS).

And, personally, I thought that the former Slytherin Phineas Nigellus seemed like a great character.

It's also absurd to suggest that Ms Rowling's world is black and white. One of the first reasons that people give for liking this series is that it isn't.

EDIT: just another point... Draco Malfoy is not, as of yet, a bad person. He is a horrible boy, but being horrible doesn't equate to being bad. Sirius Black could be pretty horrible, Ron can be horrible, even Harry can be really horrible, but these are not bad characters. It's easy to feel emphatic towards Draco's rotten personality because a) he's always like that and b) Harry hates him.

And yet another additional point. The characters are not real, but the personalities are. They are not metaphors for J. K. Rowling's idea of good and evil, they are the epitome of everybody you meet who is like that. We have all met a Draco Malfoy or a Pansy Parkinson. Therefore, it is correct to talk about them as though they exist in this case.

[sfaist]

There could not have been any Slytherins in DA this time. To our knowledge, no one in Slytherin thought Voldemort was back. Heck, they only got 25 others out of Hufflepuff, Ravenclaw, and gryffindor. I think the houses will, if not unite, at least work together. For this to happen though, I think Draco will have to witness something horrible or will have to be saved by Harry. I think another important point was at the end of the book when Snape comes out of his office and sees Harry with his wand drawn on Draco and Harry tells Snape he was deciding what curse to put on Malfoy. There was also a thought Harry had that his dislike for Malfoy was nowhere near as intense as his hatred for Snape.

EDIT: There is also a problem with the comment that Ron in the movie or Hagrid said that only wizards put into Slytherin had gone bad. What about Sirrus???? At that time, he was in Azakaban and everyone assumed he sold out Harry's parents and killed those people. I need to go back and re-read PoA but I don't remember anyone having much doubt about Sirrus's guilt.

[Cat]

Maybe Draco is too stubborn but he's not the only Slytherin. Even if he and Harry can never be friends (Harry is also stubborn), the rest might manage to work it out somehow :D

[whizbang121]

Well, here's Sorting Hat's Song from OotP. Any ideas what the hat is telling us?

In times of old when I was new And Hogwarts barely started The founders of our noble school Thought never to be parted: United by a common goal,

They had the selfsame yearning,

To make the world's best magic school

And pass along their learning.

"Together we will build and teach!"

The four good friends decided

And never did they dream that they

Might some day be divided,

For were there such friends anywhere

As Slytherin and Gryffindor?

Unless it was the second pair

Of Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw?

So how could it have gone so wrong?

How could such friendships fail?

Why, I was there and so can tell

The whole sad, sorry tale.

Said Slytherin, "We'll teach just those

Whose ancestry is purest."

Said Ravenclaw, "We'll teach those whose

Intelligence is surest."

Said Gryffindor, "We'll teach all those

With brave deeds to their name,"

Said Hufflepuff, Til teach the lot,

And treat them just the same."

These differences caused little strife

When first they came to light,

For each of the four founders had

A house in which they might

Take only those they wanted, so,

For instance, Slytherin

Took only pure-blood wizards

Of great cunning, just like him,

And only those of sharpest mind

Were taught by Ravenclaw

While the bravest and the boldest

Went to daring Gryffindor.

Good Hufflepuff, she took the rest,

And taught them all she knew,

Thus the houses and their founders

Retained friendships firm and true.

So Hogwarts worked in harmony

For several happy years,

But then discord crept among us

Feeding on our faults and fears.

The houses that, like pillars four,

Had once held up our school,

Now turned upon each other and,

Divided, sought to rule.

And for a while it seemed the school

Must meet an early end,

What with duelling and with jighting

And the clash of friend on friend

And at last there came a morning

When old Slytherin departed

And though the fighting then died out

He left us quite downhearted.

And never since the founders four

Were whittled down to three

Have the houses been united

As they once were meant to be.

And now the Sorting Hat is here

And you all know the score:

I sort you into houses

Because that is what I'm for,

But this year I'll go further,

Listen closely to my song:

Though condemned I am to split you

Still I worry that it's wrong,

Though must fulfil my duty

And must quarter everv year

Still I wonder whether Sorting

May not bring the end I fear.

Oh, know the perils, read the signs,

The warning history shows,

For our Hogwarts is in danger

From external, deadly foes

And we must unite inside her

Or we'll crumble from within

I have told you, I have warned you...

Let the Sorting now begin.

[Huntingdon]

It's interesting that G, R and S all say 'we'll' whereas Hufflepuff says 'I'll'.

The selective three were trying to assert their personality over the others while Hufflepuff was an individual willing to go her own way and let the others do as they wished.

That sounds like a very valuable lesson - and possibly an indication that the Hufflepuffs will be the ones that keep the world going while it falls apart for everyone else.

[the kryle]

i think they were all scared of being cuaght by malfoy, he would be ****** to see slytherins siding with harry.

[FredWeasleyJr]

i think the reason JKR left out any slytherins is because Hermione went trhough the trouble of contacting people she thought would be interested...obviously he wouldnt want to ask any slytherins, because she doesnt trust them...even more to the point once draco n his cronies were made inquistorial squad members...wht if a slytherin let it slip in front of one...it just would be too risky

[Northcott]

Something to bear in mind: Ms. Rowling seems to ground the fantastic nature of the stories with a high degree of emotional realism. To that end, it's not inconceivable that we would see the social dynamic change in the wizarding community over years -- and since Hogwarts is a part of that community, the dynamic there would change as well.

Consider the possibility that, perhaps, the houses were similar to, but not the same as, the way we see them portrayed in Harry's time. Perhaps "pure blood" was not a restriction in Tom Riddle's time, but ironically the elitist policies he spawns in the wizarding world end up having a very real effect in Hogwarts.

There are remarkable circumstances afoot, with Harry, Malfoy, and the Weasleys all being in school at once. Draco is a rich, popular kid (in his own house) and as younger children tend to follow older, no doubt that his presence is having an increasingly dramatic effect on Slytherin house. The Malfoy family has a similar effect in the community at large. Younger Slytherins will look to him as an example and so, because of his prejudices, Slytherin does shift closer to being "the bad guys".

I attended a semi-private Catholic high school when I was younger... silly uniforms and all. There was a fellow who went there who, in hindsight, reminds me a great deal of the character of Draco Malfoy; remarkably self-important, ego-driven, and stunningly elitist. Had I not experiences with this individual, I'd have thought such characters to be exaggerations.

The old saying holds true: "birds of a feather flock together". There are exceptions to the rule, of course, but it stands that if you lock groups of young people in dormatories together, eventually politics will take seed and a certain personality will grow among groups rather than individuals. This personality is often determined by the most influential people in these groups. That's bad news for Slytherin.

If Slytherin house is being portrayed in an increasingly bad light, perhaps that is because the house is becoming increasingly bad?

[Steffie01]

*I did do a search - don't eat me*

I was thinking about the Sorting Hat's message about inter-house unity and I think that it has already happened - through the DA, even though Slytherin was not involved the unity to fight "external deadly foes" is definitly shown through the DA, but will this be enough unity?

What does everyone think?

[DougJohnston]

I think that its a good start but the DA only consisted of like 28 memebers wasnt it? I think things will be a lot better between ravenclaw hufflepuff and gryffindor in the next book now that everyone believes Harry. But I think there will be a lot of problems with the slytherins....

[Barbara Kennedy]

DA, Sorting Hats Song, Slytherin (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=12900)
The Sorting Hat and House Relations (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11233)
I think these threads cover your question.

[Sharpturn]

Thats because Slytherins are too important for inter house co-op. Naw.

Most of the Slytherins, or the ones demonstrated so far, are probably not gonna go for inter house thing because of what their supposed to be joining up against. I mean, quite a few of their parents are Death Eaters (w00t) right?

[tantrix]

I think a lot of the Slytherins would join the DA. After all, they are the next generation of wizards and I don't think that Rowling would leave the series at a pessimistic note concerning the Slytherins. I'm not sure about Malfoy and his gang of looneys.. but I'm positive that if DA is still continued, we will see some slytherin members.

[Sharpturn]

I think a lot of the Slytherins would join the DA. After all, they are the next generation of wizards and I don't think that Rowling would leave the series at a pessimistic note concerning the Slytherins. I'm not sure about Malfoy and his gang of looneys.. but I'm positive that if DA is still continued, we will see some slytherin members.


It's not a question of whether or not the /want/ to join, but it's the reputation behind it. I'm sure that there are plenty of perfectly nice Slytherins *cough hack cough* but, as long as there are people like Malfoy, they would probably be scared about what those people would say if they joined a group with HARRY POTTER. Not biased about Slytherin at all no, I'm just saying, it's unlikely.

[tantrix]

Malfoy will lose his credibility once everyone knows that his dad is a DE. Same with Crabbe and Goyle.. who don't have a voice anyway. It's time that Sytherins look past the shallow views of Malfoy and develop an attitude of their own. Remember that Malfoy is the only loud-mouthed Slytherin-ian. I think that theres a reason behind the development of Slytherins in the minds of the readers. The books simply state that Slytherins are not good. Well, they might prove to be a great help in defeating Vold. - The heir of Sytherin.

[rock_ally]

I think that now that Umbridge is gone, and Voldy is outed, the DA will have regular meetings with alot more people. It would be cool to see it as a regular club.

[GodricHollow]

Hmm, going by Dumbledore's speech to DU in OotP the DA will continue ( :p :cool: :angel: :huh: :blush: :tu: )

so that will be a good thing, maybe not with Harry as leader, but Dumbledore, so maybe those (very few) Slytherins that like Dumbledore will jion, maybe not.

[Sharpturn]

Well, I've known Mr Malfoy was a Death Eater all along, and that didn't stop me from loving him to the absolute. I don't see why that should happen to Draco either.

[Sharpturn]

Good point, Robin--but she didn't ask Ginny's male friends either, they heard it being discussed.

hah.. I love how you put that.. GHinny's Male friends.. anyways. They heard it being discussed and they went.. so what's to debate. The Slytherins may have heard it but they never thought of joining. We don't really know for sure.

[aggiefan1206]

I think the DA dose show how most of the houses are coming togather. If it continues it will no longer be illigal so the more they get to join the better. Mabe they can ever persuade some slytherins. Mabe they can get dumbledore to teach them that would help and if they can unite it will help. Its just a matter of how they can work it out. A lot of people want vodlemort gone.

[Da_Chinkster]

the DA will have regular meetings with alot more people

The only reason the DA met was to learn DADA because Umbridge wasnt teaching them. If they get a good teacher in for next year then there will be no need for Harry to teach them.

As for the topic I believe that Malfoy has a big say in it. I agree that most of the house arent that bad and could learn to get on with each other. Its just that Malfoy bullies/bribes people into hating Harry and eventually everyone else. Im sure someone from Slytherin will show that good come of the house and attempt to make friends with all the other houses and maybe a unification of the houses can begin. Alternatively I reckon Malfoy (snr) will get killed by LV and then attempt to kill Malfoy(jnr) but Harry saves him and they will learn to live with each other

[GodricHollow]

Okay, things vaguely like this have been said before, but now we have Hermione's comment to add to it.


We know the Sorting Hat told Harry he'd do well in Slytherin...

We now know that the Sorting Hat wanted to put Hermione in Ravenclaw.

Ron is probably a natural Gryffindor, as all his family were.

What about Neville? The hat took forever to place him, could it have wanted to put him in Hufflepuff, but Neville begged for Gryffindor?

So, in a way...all four houses ARE united, but they are all united inside Gryffindor.

Do you think this may be important or have plot possibilities? Maybe Harry is the one who will have to bring Slytherin House online with the program?

That's it! They don't have to be united physically house by house, but in each individual house, I mean, just cause your pure blood dosn't mean your automatically a Slytherin right?

[Kimmetje]

I think that there is a lot of House competition and that Slytherin might have a good reputation with that, being competitive.

1. I don't think Hermione asked any Slytherin's as they liked Umbridge (some going to the Inquistirial Squad later on) and would so totally tell Umbridge about something illegal.

2. Most Gryffindor's and other houses don't like Slytherin's as they are mean and also mean during Quidditch, which a lot of people love and that love could just go too far from reality...

3. The bonding hasn't been too well as most Slytherin's wouldn't do anything that Huffelpuf's and others do as they think they are too good, so they maybe don't even want to be in the DA.

4. Some of the Slytherin's parents think VL does the right thing and maybe don't want to fight against them as they are the new generation and have to follow up their parents in the end as they want to be respected in the pureblood community.

So that's why I don't think there are Slytherin's in the DA!