Harry- not the only survivor of Avada anymore!

[McKinnon02]

I did a search on Tonks, and didn't find this anywhere, so someone point me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

During the ministry of magic scene at the end, something very interesting happened. I think Tonks got hit with an Avada Kedavra curse, but the wierd thing is, she survived. Here's how the whole thing is written:

"Nice one!" shouted Sirius, forcing Harry's head down as a pair of stunning spells flew toward them. "Now I want you to get out of-" They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius, across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

Okay. Assuming the worst, she was hit with two Stunners AND an Avada curse. Why on earth didn't she die?

[lexi]

could there be another spell with a green spark? i dunno...that whole fighting scene was really action packed and it was hard to catch everything.

[McKinnon02]

That's part of why I reread it. It was so packed most people missed the fact that Luna blew up Pluto in a Death Eater's face (they were in some sort of wierd room with revolving planets.)

[DaN+EmMa]

it's just another spell with green sparks because if it's something important Jo would put the name of the spell and stuff

[Phoenix_Fawkes]

Yea, im sure theres lots of spell that have the sae color. But Mabye not.... I don think Tonks was hit with AK cause she would have died.. she had no protection..... and theres no way to bloch AK with out someone takin the hit for you like the Fountion of magiacal brethren for ex.

[lexi]

i caught the whole pluto thing and was like uh oh....what does that mean....

[McKinnon02]

I don't know about that, Dan + Emma. She didn't put the color of the second spell Bellatrix fired at Sirius in front, and as a result we don't know whether or not it was the Veil or her spell that killed him. You'd think she'd have done that, at least.

[Runes]

There are plenty of other spells that have green light. I think its mentioned in earlier books o.O

[rotsiepots]

As Tonks didn't die (which is the primary result of being hit by Avada Kedavra, except in special circumstances) we can assume that she was hit by another spell characterised by green light.

I think it's highly unlikely that she was hit by Avada Kedavra.

[Pwk2k3]

my guess is she was hit by the two stunners, went down, and AK missed her as she fell. Though I started to REally panic when I saw that part, I thought Tonks was dead, I nearly put the book down and stopped reading it, but I had to see how the fight turned out, thankfully Tonks was still alive!

[ilovedan112389]

I agree with you all. There are surely many green coloured spells, not only AV..

[Euthrel]

Yes.. There are probably quite many spells with a green flash..?

[Euthrel]

Because we have never read what colours the stun curse is?

[DWeasley]

I agree that there is probably several spells that have a green spark. Maybe we will learn about some of them later.

[Pwk2k3]

I thought Stunners were Red!

[Evilrabbit]

Stunners are red, Euthrel.

1. The spell could have been another besides AK
2. It never actually says that the spells Sirius, Harry and Neville duck are the same ones that hit Tonks. It just said she fell at the same time that Sirius ducked a spell. It could have been another spell fired by someone else.

But anybody notice that Fawkes "survived" the AK curse? Well, ok, he didn't exactly survive, considering he "died", but technically he was alive afterwards so you could say he survived.

[psychofan]

i just assumed that Tonks dodged the curse. i mean, it can't kill you if it doesn't connect, right?

[Pwk2k3]

I'd like to think she got Zapped with two stunners, rather than oops she fell and knocked her self sensless :banghead: :rasp: :D

[Virtuousdream]

I actually thought Tonks was dead from reading that, it sounded like AK to me, then I was surprised she was alive but I forgot about it as I had other things to think about!

I agree with the others, it was probably a stunner that got her and so she missed it. Or it's another spell.

[Pwk2k3]

Yup I say she was pelted with the stunners, fell, and missed getting AK'd by a hair!!!

Or she could have just tripped and knocked herself out, but I dont really like that.:grumble: So I'll stand by the two stunners!:rasp:

[Nick]

You're all forgetting the other guy who survived AK.

Just because Voldemort's the "bad guy" doesn't mean you shouldn't give credit when credit's due. His curse bounced off Harry and hit him. He should have died, but he didn't. Therefore not one but two people survived the curse.

[Max]

It was never mentioned that Tonks was even hit by the curse.

"Nice one!" shouted Sirius, forcing Harry's head down as a pair of stunning spells flew towards them. "Now I want you to get out of-" They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius, across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

I think that this is just misinterpreted. It was mentioned that the pair of stunning spells flew towards them, not necessarily in the direction of Tonks (I don't think that people try to attack others from the other side of the room). Also, since the "jet of green light" is said to "narrowly miss Sirius", it was most likely fired at him (Sirius). It is a bit of a coincidence for it to miss Sirius and hit Tonks, isn't it, especially when they are at opposite sides of a rather large room. Tonks was duelling with Bellatrix, so, judging from the "triuphant" look on her (Bellatrix's) face, we can safely assume that she was hit by one of Bellatrix's stunners.

[Mireille]

Originally posted by Evilrabbit (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=433867#post433867))
But anybody notice that Fawkes "survived" the AK curse? Well, ok, he didn't exactly survive, considering he "died", but technically he was alive afterwards so you could say he survived.


I may be wrong, but I don't think pheonixes ever die. They are reborn making their cycle of life ever lasting. We know that Fawkes burns up when he is ready to start a new cycle, so is he dying or just starting over? I don't really think that Fawkes died because he ate the curse. It was just something a loyal pet would do for its owner and saved Dumbledore by starting over his life cycle a little early.

[Sinistra]

The legend of the Phoenix states that the phoenix dies in flames and is reborn from the ashes. So Fawkes does die each time he burns, but is reborn again as a chick from the ashes. Of course Fawkes has to "grow up" again before he can do his flying and fancy stuff.

[Ecthelion]

A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius, across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat....

The way I interpreted this particular spot was that there were two seperate spells going on. One, the Avada Kedavra Curse or just another green spell in general that narrowly misses Sirius. And two, the one which we did not see, that caused Tonks to fall and be out of the fight. Plus, though there are some circumstances in which she could get hit, she was above Sirius on the stairs, so if the spell narrowly missed Sirius, then it is highly possible that it was too low to hit Tonks.

[Cat]

It's not a stretch of the imagination to presume that Tonks fell over before then. Tonks could fall over while standing still, she wouldn't even need to be stunned first.

There are three possibilities.

1. The green spell missed Tonks (likely).
2. The green spell was not the Avada Kedavra spell (likely).
3. The green spell WAS the Avada Kedavra spell and it hit Tonks (unlikely, but probably possible).

[danwilkie]

I agree, Tonks was on the other side of the room, I'm pretty sure the AK didn't go anywhere near her. Also, I'd like to think that the AK is the only green spell. Would just be better IMO.

[Cat]

Originally posted by danwilkie (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=434258#post434258))
Also, I'd like to think that the AK is the only green spell. Would just be better IMO.


But there's only so many colours you can use before you get into 'mauve' and 'pale tan'.

[Maychilde]

i don't see why the spell that hit tonks(or at least missed)couldn't be an avada kedavra.i mean,death eaters don't mind murdering people and they definitely wouldn't mind if an ak that was sent towards sirius or harry hit tonks instead.the more dumbledore supporters they eliminate,the better for them.so they'd be sending aks all over the place.and if i remember right,the stun spells were red,not green.but then again,i could be wrong...

[firebolt2000]

I think that the spell Tonks got hit with was not the killing curse. There are a lot of spells that have the same color. Like, for example, Expelliarmus and Stupefy are both red. But, going back to Harry being the only one to survive Avada Kedavra, didn't Dumbledore survive it too? He managed to escape it every time Voldemort tried to kill him with it.

[danwilkie]

Yeah but DD didn't get a direct hit with it. Its unblockable, but not undodgeable. I seem to remember Harry dodging it in the graveyard possibly.

I agree that many spells can share colours, but still I'd like to think AK is the only green spell. Makes it unique. And green for Slytherin.

[Pwk2k3]

The stunner missed Sirius, we dont know WHAT spell hit him as it simply states something like "the second spell hit him squarly in the chest" I dont remember it word for word, but it didn't tell us what exactly the second spell was. As for the spells that hit Tonks, Its probably a pretty good assumption that it wasn't AK that hit her. Tho The stunners are still a good suspect, Sirius and harry ducked them, or they flew over their heads, meaning they missed and hit other things, like Tonks across the room.

[JenJen]

I don't think Tonks was hit with AK...she would have died. Like someone said before, she doesn't have the protections that Harry does. Also, it mentions that Sirius was hit with a red curse (probably the stunning spell), which knocked him into the veil.

[Mad-I Moody]

I am almost positive that there is another spell, mentioned somewhere in the series, that emits a green light. I don't have all 5 books with me (I loaned them to my parents), but I know I marked a lot of the pages that mention certain colors (like green, red, and purple), and I'm almost certain that a spell besides Avada Kedavra that emits a green light is mentioned somewhere. If I get my books back this weekend, I'll come back and edit this post with what I find (if I find anything)!

If I don't find anything, however, I think it is most likely that Tonks was hit with a spell that we haven't yet heard about, and NOT hit with AK.

[marauder's mapper]

I don't know whether this is true or in approved of J.K, but in my Harry Potter Gameboy game, there is a spell called Verdimillious which is green. It's probably not the spell because most games take the mickey out of the REAL THING. P.s. Wingardium Leviosa is shown green as well, but as you know, trying to make 40 kilos of Tonks float would be quite a challenge!!!

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by lexi (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=433695#post433695))
i caught the whole pluto thing and was like uh oh....what does that mean....


In some Magic Kingdoms, Pluto is the dog star. May as well use ALL the allegory you can.:)

But this is an intersting premise. What if it was the death curse?

[Riku]

It never even occured to me that the two stunners, and the green spell were the ones that hit Tonks. It just didn't seem right, I thought the person who fired them were aiming for Harry and Sirius, and tonks was knocked out from another spell...

Or maybe Tonks was fighting with the person firing the spells, the spells went passed her and just happened to nearly hit Harry and sirius ;). I did think the green curse was AK though.


In some Magic Kingdoms, Pluto is the dog star. May as well use ALL the allegory you can.

Never knew that, seems likely J.k done that on purpose :rolleyes:.

[sfaist]

I never thought the spells that Sirrus and Harry dodged hit Tonks. She was in a duel with Bellatrix across the room. I still think Bellatrix just took her out and we have no idea what spells she used to do it.

[Pucko]

Originally posted by McKinnon02 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=433700#post433700))
She didn't put the color of the second spell Bellatrix fired at Sirius in front, and as a result we don't know whether or not it was the Veil or her spell that killed him. You'd think she'd have done that, at least.


i though it said sirius was stunned??? that's what i precieved anyways...either way bellatrix was responsible for the death

[Pr0nGs]

You guys, what makes you think the spell that flew past Sirius hit Tonks. One probably just missed him and at about the same time Tonks was hit and fell down the stairs. It even said later that Moody was reviving her meaning she was hit with a stunner. And look at it logically, Sirius and Harry were at the very bottom, and Tonks was at the top, so if the spell that missed Sirius did hit Tonks, it would have had to been shot from like ground-level.

[rons-lover]

Agree with PrOnGs

She was dueling someone, obviously she wasn't hit by whatever spell missed Harry and Sirius. I think y'all are reading a bit much into it. lol That's okay, I don't read enough into things, I'm HORRIBLE at annalyzing.!

Anyways *enjoy* you're argument.!

[Aziraphale]

About Tonks tripping over, I am sure it were two stunners and not the AK spell, and remember, she's as clumsy as one can get, right? ;) So she could have just tripped but I don't think that's the case. Especially since Moody was reviving her later.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Well, its never written that any spell hits Tonk. Its more likely she just fall we know she is like that and Bellatrix just thought she hit her with the AK but didn´t know that Tonk is that clumsy. See its interpreting thing and after that no spell hit Tonk but Bellatrix thought she had.

[Pwk2k3]

You're prolly Right Flying. But I dont like it :rasp: ;) I'd rather her have been hit by the stunners, then to have tripped over her cloak or something. Poor Tonks :(

[Euthrel]

Yes exactly..
So she just thought Tonks got hit?
cool.. Missed that part..

Hey! I am Mcgonogall as well! =)

[Omi]

I was rereading cos, and the slug spell ron uses on Drao is Green. Im not saying they were casting slug-belching spells at each other, but AK isnt the only green spell.

[Amylou]

Yeah, this goes along with something said in an earlier post...what exaclty does it mean when Luna blew up Pluto? It wasn't the actual planet...wasn't it just an orb representing the planet? I got confused...help if you know...

[FredRocksMySocks]

heh, maybe bella tried to make him burp slugs ;)
nah, I don't think tonks survived ak, there is no counter curse..nobody but hary survives. i don't think we're going to get aorund that one because nobody died for her, and that's the only protection known to work against it. and i am sure greater wizards have tried protection and failed, so...yeah
oh, and Amy, there is a thread on that already if you want to check it out. if you search luna or pluto or something it should come up, and you might find you answers there istead of here. it's a bit off topic.
*EDIT*
the location is here (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13112&highlight=pluto)

[Alastor D]

As many of you already said, we don't know what, if anything, hit Tonks.

And Voldemort's surviving AK. The curse ricochetted from Harry's forehead and obviously lost part of it's power. Remember the basilisk? It didn't kill anyone in CoS because they saw its yeys either reflected or through Nick. And didn't Dumbledore wonder if Voldemort was human enough to die?
So Harry is still the only one who have survived a direct hit of that curse.

[jordmundt6]

As has been previously stated in detail often

1. Tonks did not survive an AK blast. The AK that Harry and Sirius ducked is not what knocked her out. What knocked her out was a curse of undetermined type (but not an AK) My guess, and it's just a guess because we have NOTHING in the text is that it's either Bella's version of the Dolohov special that nearly killed Hermone, or one of those silver arrow explosive curses.

2. Voldemort survived a weakened form of the AK mixed with Harry's gut reaction to being attacked. It's like surviving a reflected basilisk glare as Alastor D so nicely put it.

That's it, and that's all.

[FredRocksMySocks]

here here

[Pr0nGs]

Originally posted by Omi (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=450755#post450755))
I was rereading cos, and the slug spell ron uses on Drao is Green. Im not saying they were casting slug-belching spells at each other...

I wouldn't be too surprised if they were because some death eater was messing around enough to set a severe cheering charm on Ron, lol.

[FredRocksMySocks]

was it a spell that ron got hit with that made him so loopy? i don't remember lol that's a funny choice of weapons. anybody know? hahah DE's doing cheering charms...

[Rahvin54]

I always got the impression that AK was a very unique spell and had a very unique color affect, so that you could always tell when it was being used. I felt that AK was like almost a blinding flash of green light, while the curse used on Tonks was just something like a laser from starwars.

[Pr0nGs]

Harry said he heard Ron scream and later Luna said she blew up Pluto in his face, who knows what else happened. I think he finally cracked, too much pressure from being keeper lol.

[FredRocksMySocks]

lol pr0ngs! thanks for the info. oh, and rahvin, i always thought that too...like, lit up the room, had to shield your eyes bright green light was AK, and that anyother curse was like a laser or something. at least, that's how jk has described it, so i really don't think this tonks being a surviver of AK holds up at ALL...she didn't even have anybody to die for her (that's nearly humorous....nearly)

[jordmundt6]

Okay This thread has been bugging me. Tonks didn't get hit with the AK that Sirius and Harry ducked. She and Bella were having a totally seperate duel and Bella knocked her out of commission.

[DaManDan521]

tonks is a new character for all we know it coulda been AK maybe she does have sum protection against it? i doubt it but u never know! I AM SO SAD THE BOOK WONT BOUT OUT FOR BOT TWO MORE YEARS!!!! :grumble:

[RedCape]

Escaping doesn't mean surviving. By surviving AK, they mean being hit by the spell and living.

I don't know if Voldemort would qualify either. He didn't have the spell shot at him, it rebounded. Interesting idea though. Hmmm. Might have to think about that one.

As someone mentioned, Tonks could have fallen down on her own. She was very clumsy as we saw at the headquarters. She knocked over things and Mrs. Weasley didn't want her helping cook fearing an accident.

[Fortescue]

I don't know about that, Dan + Emma. She didn't put the color of the second spell Bellatrix fired at Sirius in front, and as a result we don't know whether or not it was the Veil or her spell that killed him. You'd think she'd have done that, at least.

I dunno. I think it was implied that it was red, simply based on context and the wording of the sentence itself. But you're right; we can't be too sure, although I personally believe it was the veil, judging by Lupin's remarks immediately afterwards.

[clista]

also voldy took so many precautions in becoming immortal right...ill look it up and get back to ya

[MadMagic]

I don' tthink that the green jet went anywhere near Tonks. I think that it is just a confusing sentence. I think that the green jet probably hit a wall or something. And at that time, Harry looks across the room at Tonks and sees that she is hit by a stunning spell, causing her to fall. I don't think the green jet is the thing that actually hit her.

[sophieke]

There are other spells that shoots off green sparks, methinks. However, if that is really the case, then we better look into Tonk much more deeper.

[McKinnon02]

Metamorphmagi are really rare. And in the magical world, rare usually means very powerful. Look at things like the Sorceror's Stone and Moody's vivid blue eye for proof. It's possible she did survive an AK curse. But I do think it's more likely she got hit by a stunner, or some other green spell. That whole scene in the D.O.M. was confusing, and went by at a very fast pace.

[Mander]

green sparks don't necessarily mean the adavra kedavra curse.

[McKinnon02]

But they weren't sparks. It was a green jet of light which was narrowly avoided by Sirius and Harry.

[MY_SIRIUS]

I agree with those who said it was another spell with a green spark. & let's see, dumbledore took avada! actualy Fawks did, it was a trick though, magic1 harry had survived without anything to defence himslef!

[WeasleyIsOurKing]

The only reason Harry survived is because of his mother, and the main reason he is so famous is because he caused Voldemort's downfall. Even if it was Avada Kedavra that Tonks survived, she would be famous, sure, but not on the level that Harry is.

[Pr0nGs]

I thought I had cleared it up, but now you guys are back to it. Harry and Sirius avoided a curse and about the same time Tonks was hit up at the top of the stadium-arena thingy and rolled down the benches. Unless somebody was shooting from ground-level, there was no way that spell could have hit Tonks way up there.

[Amadeus]

I believe that green sparks/lights/rays are not reserved for Avada Kedavra...

[sydleparr]

it had to have been another spell! Even if it really did happen it woulnt have been as important as harry's case. His parents had just been killed and the darkest wizard in their world had put the avada curse on him. But it propbably would have made the daily prophet. (?) :(

[sydleparr]

it couldnt be the avada curse. it wouldnt be that big of a deal compared to harry. yes it is very important but look at harry! his parents were killed when he was right there!then the darkest wizard tried to kill him. big enough news to make a front page artivle in the daily prophet.

[imfnoa]

i think there are more spells that emit green sparks(i'm not sure but i thint the dark mark does) and to be reasonable with all the different spells out there there couldn't be a color for each one. Right?

[Silverfox02]

Tonks might be able to be hit by Avada Kedavra and survive. She might be able too but I'm not positive. We all know that Fawkes is a pheniox so when he dies he's reborn from the ashes. I don't know that being a metamorphigus(or however you spell it) allows you to transform entirely into something else but if it does she would be able to become a pheniox before the spell hit her. Now when they were in the department of mysteries that did not happen. I'm just saying it could later.

[DigitalHeadache]

i agree

[Morgan LeFay]

Yeah, but it was said, that she nearly died, maybe metamorphomagi have some strange features we don't know yet.

[jordmundt6]

Oh Criminy--She wasn't even hit with an AK. The problem is we don't get a real good look at her "fight" with Bella. We see Harry and Sirius ducking an AK and then they look over Bella has totaled Tonks with a spell that can't be determined, but definitely isn't an AK, it wasn't green. Geez. She did nearly die, but she survived. It's quite possible she could have been hit with Bella's version of the Antonin special we didn't see wand movements or spell color or incantation or anything.

[HOPE]

there is a medical techneque (sp?) called CPR, you know, it's also know as reveiving someone.... perhaps she did get hit, but how do we know you can't restart someones heart which has been stopped using the killing curse by using CPR? it's possible....

[Jill]

Are you sure it wasn't just an anti-gravity spell as she went up the steps rather than just fall down. She fell upwards?

[Gabi Potter]

But, going back to Harry being the only one to survive Avada Kedavra, didn't Dumbledore survive it too? He managed to escape it every time Voldemort tried to kill him with it.

No, I don't think Dumbledore was ever hit by the Avada Kedavra spell. Maybe Voldemort used it on him and he ducked out of the way or something. But Dumbledore is such a powerful wizard and the only one Voldemort was ever afraid of so maybe Voldemort never even tried to use it on him at all. We don't really know I guess.

About Tonks. I don't think she was hit by the AK curse because she is not that powerful of a witch to not have died. I think the stunners and the green light were somewhat to show how chaotic the fight was becoming. And I'm pretty sure Tonks was probably hit by one or both of the stunners, but not the AK.

[SnorkackCatcher]

"They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius, across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

I think if you parse this (and I know that at this point it was easy to not pick up details, I was reading fast too!) it's pretty much the following sequence:

(1) Someone shoots an AK (or whatever) at Sirius

(2) Harry looking in the other direction, not behind him where the spell was going, sees Tonks fall

(3) Bellatrix cries triumphantly at her victory and comes back towards the main fight where Sirius and Harry are

So no reason to suppose the spell that hit Tonks was AK.

Couple of other comments: it's surely not the only green light spell, and it does seem to be blockable physically (e.g. the statue that deflects the curse from Harry). Perhaps the "no counter-curse, no blocking" bit from Crouch/Moody means that there's no counter (e.g. like Enervate for Stupefy) if actually hit by it, and normal hex-deflection or Shield Charms aren't powerful enough to block it? Of course, he could just have been lying ...

[jordmundt6]

There's a reason it's blockable physically, in its pure form it wipes out life but is supposed to leave physical matter unmarked. If you put more pepper on it it can act like a jazzed up stunner and cause damage to the physical surroundings when it misses or blast through things in its path (like Dumbledore's Stunner in GoF that blasted the door apart or Voldy's blast at the statue). What unblockable means is that, absent a Priori Incantatem effect (like GoF) there is no countercurse. If you get hit with it and it was done properly, you die. End of story. The Tonks-Bella thing is a totally different battle and no reason to think she got hit with an AK, that's true. Now, the intersting question would be, if Harry did his best ever shield charm, could it block one of Tom's AK's. Maybe by the end of book 7, but not now.

[Hufflepuffy]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Tonks didn't get hit by the AK. If she did, she would be dead. End of story. Yes, Harry survived it, but that was under a very very very special circumstance. And yes, Fawkes may have been hit by the AK (it's not really clear) but he's a phoenix, I'm pretty sure he can't die.

[Jena Evans]

This scene was so action packed that pretty much any of the scenerios suggested could conceivably taken place. There is so much going on that the first time I read through it I had a hard time picturing what was actually happening, but after re-reading it I think it unlikely that Tonks was actually hit by the AK curse but I would not rule it out altogether. JKR has a way of writing and composing stories where anything and everything has the potential for deeper meaning later on.

[Sinistra]

It seemes Fawkes swallowed the AK curse aimed at Dumbledore, and then died in a burst of flame, only to be reborn from the ashes. So Fawkes did die, as phoenixes do, but was reborn, as phoenixes also do.

That whole fight scene was quite confusing, and each read-through brings different pictures/placements to mind.

But when Tonks blew up Pluto, it may have granted her some protection. Pluto is the Ancient Greek/Roman God of the Underworld and King of the Dead. So maybe she gave herself some sort of immortality by "destroying" the King of the Underworld. Or more of a curse, i.e. never able to die.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

But when Tonks blew up Pluto, it may have granted her some protection. Pluto is the Ancient Greek/Roman God of the Underworld and King of the Dead. So maybe she gave herself some sort of immortality by "destroying" the King of the Underworld. Or more of a curse, i.e. never able to die.
Just to jut in - Luna blew up Pluto.

[Sinistra]

Oops, my bad. Not a good day for me. Sorry.

So it's not Tonks but Luna. Hmmm. Still makes an interesting idea.

[jordmundt6]

Yeah, I think Tonks spent her whole time in that Chamber with the dais. And right now we have no clue what kind of curse even hit her. Did it strike anyone else as strange that no one went for the kill during the fights except for Voldemort? Of course, leaving behind dead Order members would sort of be a giveaway that Hey, Voldemort's back. But still..well, that's not entirely true either, there was a lot of ducking and dodging going on down there. Sorry about that.

[SnorkackCatcher]

Did it strike anyone else as strange that no one went for the kill during the fights except for Voldemort? Of course, leaving behind dead Order members would sort of be a giveaway that Hey, Voldemort's back. But still..well, that's not entirely true either, there was a lot of ducking and dodging going on down there. Sorry about that.

There were a few AK's flying about (e.g. the one a DE tried to cast on Hermione, the one Sirius/Harry ducked) but it did seem a bit odd that the DE's at least didn't use them more often. After all, they can't really risk leaving any witnesses behind, can they?

Of course, AK is a curse that requires "a powerful bit of magic behind it", so maybe your averagely talented dark wizard needs to concentrate hard to do it? In which case, in battle conditions requiring split-second decisions, they might prefer to use a less powerful but easier spell to stun, impede or whatever.

[jordmundt6]

That could be it, the average DE has to concentrate quite hard to muster up the power necessary to fire a full fledged AK and in a normal firefight they don't have enough power or reflex timing to use it and block whatever the Order might throw at them, a sign that Voldemort is more advanced than his minions.

[Masterfroggy]

That could be it, the average DE has to concentrate quite hard to muster up the power necessary to fire a full fledged AK and in a normal firefight they don't have enough power or reflex timing to use it and block whatever the Order might throw at them, a sign that Voldemort is more advanced than his minions.

Why would anyone throw a AK at the only person to survive one, and in the process distroy a house/cottage, and turning a powerful wizard into a snakes nightmare for 11 years, at the others yes, but Harry :shrug: as for using it on the others, spells must take lots of energy out of the people who use them, as my old science teacher would say "nothing for nothing" conservation of energy and all that, so the more powerful the wizard the more power they use in their spells the more it drains them, perhaps thats why the Dark lord wants to become immortal so he can use really big spells without it draining him, unless of course magic doesn't follow the rules of the known universe, and "TANSTAAFL" is not applied

Masterfroggy

All new and Impoved
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[jordmundt6]

They figure he was lucky and he only survived because his mother died to save him. TINSTAAFL--There's no such thing as a free lunch? Hah--yeah, there's a limit to every power, but Voldy is so far above his minions that he can use it as his standard attack.

[viktorija_hp]

The truth is that Harry survived Avada Kedavra because his mother protected him with her love, and I really don't think that Tonks was hit by AK, it waasn't death curse. It was something "softer". She would die. Everyone hitten by AK dies.

[KeyserSoze]

I'd be willing to bet that there are a bunch of other curses that are green, and even if not, I don't recall anyone actually seeing Tonks get hit with the green on, just her falling over. And if I'm not mistaken there were a couple of stunners that went past just before she fell.

[miri]

If Cruccio only works properly of it's fully meant, who's to say that AK isn't similar? It could be that, had it hit Sirius, he'd have died, but the person who fired it saw s/he'd missed and stopped focussing the hate, so when it hit Tonks moments later it acted more like a stunner than anything (after all, Harry's Cruccio hurt Bellatrix a little, for a short while).

[SnorkackCatcher]

If Cruccio only works properly of it's fully meant, who's to say that AK isn't similar? It could be that, had it hit Sirius, he'd have died, but the person who fired it saw s/he'd missed and stopped focussing the hate, so when it hit Tonks moments later it acted more like a stunner than anything (after all, Harry's Cruccio hurt Bellatrix a little, for a short while).

**** good point that - the effects of magic in HP does often seem to depend on how strong the possessor of the magic powers is.

For example, Crouch/Moody to the class about AK just after the "powerful bit of magic" bit - (rough quote) "you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nose-bleed". The Mandrakes spring to mind as well - the cry of fully grown ones kills, the cry of seedlings just knocks you out. And Transfiguration in general seems to be much easier the more powerful you are - once at the level of Dumbledore or McGonagall, you just have to flick your wand and stuff appears or disappears.

I still don't think the actual passage that's the topic of this thread implies that Tonks was hit with an AK. It would though be interesting if somebody not very good at it tried it and didn't manage to actually kill (Draco, maybe?).

[SnorkackCatcher]

unless of course magic doesn't follow the rules of the known universe, and "TANSTAAFL" is not applied

I think the whole point of magic in the HP books is that it doesn't follow the rules of physics, and people seem to conjure up free lunches quite regularly. :)

[Masterfroggy]

I think the whole point of magic in the HP books is that it doesn't follow the rules of physics, and people seem to conjure up free lunches quite regularly. :)

What I was trying to say was, the way I see the "magic" element of the books was that wizards expend energy when they use magic, so the free lunches are not free, just energy converted into mass, or other forms of energy, and that is why when in PoA the Dementors sucked out all of Harry's happy thoughts, both at the Quidditch game and when they attacked Harry and Hermione, after Wormtails escape, he was too weak to fight them. Chocolate contains a fairly high amount of sugar and fats for energy, all the people in the books eat a massive amount of food, when you consider that only a few people play any sports, (Quidditch although it's not really a sport it's a game) JKR hasn't mentioned many with weight problems. :D Ymmv

MasterFroggy

All new and Improved
Harry Potter Encyclopaedia
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[Hufflepuffy]

That could be it, the average DE has to concentrate quite hard to muster up the power necessary to fire a full fledged AK and in a normal firefight they don't have enough power or reflex timing to use it and block whatever the Order might throw at them, a sign that Voldemort is more advanced than his minions.


Oooh, good point! Like when Harry tried to do Crucio, but it didn't work 'cause he didn't really mean it. Maybe whoever sent the AK just wasn't concentrating right, I'm sure during a battle, it could be hard to direct you energy completely at one thing.

Although I'm still pretty sure Tonks didn't get hit by AK, this is a good point!

[jordmundt6]

That might hold true except that Tonk's was NOT hit with an AK. The green jet didn't hit her. She was on the other side of the room getting whupped by Bella and whatever Bella threw at her wasn't an AK.

[story]

There is ideed another green curse. In CoS when Ron tries to attack Draco, causing his slug problem, there is a green flash. I have always woundered if this may have a connection to Voldemort's original downfall? Perhpas Ron's broken wand?

[Tirwen Lupin]

If Cruccio only works properly of it's fully meant, who's to say that AK isn't similar? It could be that, had it hit Sirius, he'd have died, but the person who fired it saw s/he'd missed and stopped focussing the hate, so when it hit Tonks moments later it acted more like a stunner than anything (after all, Harry's Cruccio hurt Bellatrix a little, for a short while).
I like that idea. It's not the kind of spell that just needs the words and a wave of the wand (though I think all spells need some feeling behind them, to a degree), it would need powerful hate and desire to kill behind it as welltoo. If Crucio would, Avada would as well.
Though I'm not convinced that it was AK that hit Tonks, it's possible that it was a less poweful version that wasn't fully focused. It's still very possible that it was some sort of stunning spell--I'm sure AK can't be the only spell with green light/sparks.

[rotsiepots]

Avada Kedavra does follow the same principle as Crucio and the other Unforgiveables.

To quote Pseudo-Moody in GoF:

"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nose-bleed..."

Taken from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, page 192 Bloomsbury Edition.

[CentaurFirenze]

Avada Kedavra does follow the same principle as Crucio and the other Unforgiveables.

To quote Pseudo-Moody in GoF:

"Avada Kedavra's a curse that needs a powerful bit of magic behind it -- you could all get your wands out now and point them at me and say the words, and I doubt I'd get so much as a nose-bleed..."

Taken from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, page 192 Bloomsbury Edition.

I think Lestrange is powerful enough to kill someone with AK seeing as how she turned an auror incurably insane.

[story]

Perhaps there is more to the willingness behind certain spells. If Avada Kedavra did not work on Harry maybe Voldemort didn't really want to kill Harry, but was afraid not too. This would also fit into the idea of Voldemort being unwilling to kill Lily, but why?

The other green spell, is the Ron's slug attempt on Malfoy in CoS

[Jill]

I think Voldermort was perhaps too pre-occupied into why a boy so young could be responcible for defeating the greatest wizard of all time (actually he calls himself a sorcerer so whats the difference between this a warlock and a wizard, thats on another thread).

I think he was not fully commited for that very reason. It was a bit of a shock for him to be standing infrount of a baby that one day may bring his downfall. He might of not even been sure that he was doing the write thing by killing him because he did not here the complete prophecy. I mean he might have thought that killing Harry while only 1 years of age was what might bring his downfall.

There could have been a lot of doubt in his mind as to why and whether he was doing the write thing that night. So if that was the case then perhaps he was not committed.

[jordmundt6]

His fear and incredulity would have intensified his hatred and anger. A magnifier for his power like DD. His AK should have been more powerful, not less.

[Hpmons]

I personally dont think that the green jet of light was the AK, as there are many spells that produce green light, just they are not described much in the books. Also, the DE were not very keen on using the AK, as it would have seemed suspicious, and would alert the MoM that there was something wrong.
Tonks, although probably quite strong, could not have survived the AK curse. Even Harry would not have survived it if his mother hadnt protected him, and died for him.

[Abhishek]

Hell, i am not even sure now whether AK is the only killing curse. Just what was that purple one that Hit Hermione again?

[Vigilance]

IF Tonks was hit with the spell, it wasn't AK. Not only are there other "green" spells, but we didn't hear the all-important rushing sound of impending death. The AK is accompanied by that sound, which was not present in the MoM.

[jordmundt6]

The thing is, in a full battle scene, you can't hear that. It's a rushing wind and it would get drowned out by the flashes and bangs of the half-dozen other duels going on.

[truegryffingirl]

hmmm then i guess theres another spell with green light or the mix of two stunners formed a green light?

[Raven_Girly]

There must be some other spell with green light. if something this significant had really happened, i think they would have made more of a big deal out of it. Tonks is pretty strong, but maybe not that strong...

[SnorkackCatcher]

It's been so long since anyone posted on this thread that I'm not surprised it's been forgotten - but if you read the appropriate part of the MoM fight scene, it says:

They both [Harry and Sirius] ducked again; a jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius. Across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back towards the fray.In other words, these are incidents from two separate fights - the one with Harry and Sirius at ground level, and the one with Tonks and Bellatrix up the steps on the other side of the room. Bellatrix at this point has been fighting Tonks for a while and clearly didn't have time to spare to atteck Harry or Sirius until she'd won. They're conflated into one paragraph because they happen to occur at the same time

[Asrana]

I just assumed Tonks fell. It says in the book she was clumsy, right? So running up a flight of steps she trips and falls

[SnorkackCatcher]

I just assumed Tonks fell. It says in the book she was clumsy, right? So running up a flight of steps she trips and fallsActually, she was standing at the top of the steps "raining spells" on Bellatrix Lestrange. I think the natural interpretation of the bit I quoted is that she was hit in the fight by something nasty (she had to spend time in St Mungos after all) but not an AK.

[McKinnon02]

That might hold true except that Tonk's was NOT hit with an AK. The green jet didn't hit her. She was on the other side of the room getting whupped by Bella and whatever Bella threw at her wasn't an AK.

There's a problem with this. Remember "Morsmordre", which was cast in book 4 to create the image of a skull which scared the pants off everyone at the Quidditch World Cup? Granted the skull didn't do anything, but it did float up for quite a bit and we don't know how long it remained there. I think it's reasonable to assume that some spells last longer and actually target their opponents. AK, if fired right, might have less power behind it- but still be really lethal!

[AbundantFear]

I think that if Tonks had been hit with the Avada Kedavra curse it would have been said. It would be pretty significant, that someone else survived it. It would probably have been in The Daily Prophet.

Perhaps those that are confused about it should read that particular part again. It doesn't say anywhere that she was hit with Avada Kedavra.

[LuvHP_001]

I guess there has to be another spell with the same green spark. People should just except that there is no way to escape AK no matter what but the mystery lies within Harry.

[Artermis_Hoou]

it's just another spell with green sparks because if it's something important Jo would put the name of the spell and stuff
I'm sure if Tonks did get hit with it, she would have mentioned it, not just swept it under the rug, she probably got stunned and missed it. Dumbledore would have mentioned it to Harry if Tonks survived it.

[Stayce]

Nice one!" shouted Sirius, forcing Harry's head down as a pair of stunning spells flew toward them. "Now I want you to get out of-" They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius, across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

The comma after misses Sirius means a change in who or what the subjust is addressing. It could also read misses Sirius and accross the room Harry saw Tonks.....

[SquibOnline]

I imagine that many spells have green lights. But Harry is not the opnyl survivor of the avada spell. Voldemort also was hit by it when it rebounded off of Harry and he is back

[satnitesadnesss]

I did a search on Tonks, and didn't find this anywhere, so someone point me in the right direction if I'm wrong.

During the ministry of magic scene at the end, something very interesting happened. I think Tonks got hit with an Avada Kedavra curse, but the wierd thing is, she survived. Here's how the whole thing is written:

"Nice one!" shouted Sirius, forcing Harry's head down as a pair of stunning spells flew toward them. "Now I want you to get out of-" They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius, across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

Okay. Assuming the worst, she was hit with two Stunners AND an Avada curse. Why on earth didn't she die?

I think Tonks' purpose in the books was to show us readers what a metemorphagus (sp?) is. We havent met it before, and now we have. my belief is that, in the series, theres going to be another metamorpagus and she/he is going to be vastly important. Maybe that was a clue..metemorphagus cannot be affected by avada kedavra? if thats true..wow..then, that opens up loads of new posibilities..can be VERY significant in books 6 +7

[Yrraine]

from post 121
Nice one!" shouted Sirius, forcing Harry's head down as a pair of stunning spells flew toward them. "Now I want you to get out of-"
They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius; across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

In my copy it's a semicolon after "Sirius," which even more strongly suggests that the action switches here; a colon would suggest the green hit Tonks. (Sorry; I'm an editor.)

It was suggested in another thread that the reason DEs are using spells other than AK is that AK takes an incredible amount of focus and power to do right (per Moody and the spiders in GoF), it's just too hard to use in a dueling situation, where you're likely to be hit while you're still trying to get centered and focused.

I think there are more spells than colors, so the colors are somewhat random. I think she was hit by something else. Mine's a boring theory, but there it is.

[LengMui]

i highly doubt that AK is the only spell that is green. plus if avada kavadra is so strong, harry or sirius would have felt the power. when dumbledore did his little spell in his office when fudge was trying to arrest him for "Dumbledore's Army", it was mentioned that the spell was so powerful that harry's hair was standing on end or something like that. there was no mention of anything of the sort.

[OliveINDUSTRIES]

okie soo:

-if it WAS realli the AK curse Tonks prolly dodged it sumhow..

- but other than that theres prolly other dangerous spells with green flashes besides
the AK one

[no1 potter fan]

i caught the whole pluto thing and was like uh oh....what does that mean....

lol me too!!

[Tane]

Nice one!" shouted Sirius, forcing Harry's head down as a pair of stunning spells flew toward them. "Now I want you to get out of-" They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius, across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

The comma after misses Sirius means a change in who or what the subjust is addressing. It could also read misses Sirius and accross the room Harry saw Tonks.....I think that is a good point about the comma use, the time incidents though can still be connected as JKR would have started a new sentence if they where completely separate incidents though. I would say that it was probably not the Avada killing curse if it did hit Tonks but then again it is interesting to see how JKR brought that incident to our attention. What if the protection that Harry had for the Avada curses extends beyond him to those he is also associated to, what if Harry is still protected but even more strongly now from that curse after what happened at the end of GoF. I do not have much proof to this but then again Tonks was hit by some magic to bring her down and the fact that Harry turned probably to see where the spell was heading too does suggest that Tonks was hit by that green curse.

Then again as some have already stated, there are probably many spells that leave a green trail.

[Elf]

"Nice one!" shouted Sirius, forcing Harry's head down as a pair of stunning spells flew toward them. "Now I want you to get out of-" They both ducked again. A jet of green light had narrowly missed Sirius, across the room Harry saw Tonks fall from halfway up the stone steps, her limp form toppling from stone seat to stone seat, and Bellatrix, triumphant, running back toward the fray.

Forgive me if someone has already pointed this out but the logistics of this scene make it impossible that Tonks was hit with the same green spell Sirius ducked. Harry sees Tonks across the room, meaning she has to be somewhere in front of him and Sirius in order to be in their line of vision. Sirius ducks then Tonks gets hit with the green spell. This means that for Tonks to have been hit with the spell after Sirius ducked, she would have to be behind Harry and Sirius, in which case they would not have witnessed her being hit. This means that she was hit with an entirely different spell and we have no way of determining its colour.

Likely she was somewhere in the direction Harry and Sirius were facing (thus they saw her fall), but she was off to the side. Obviously she would not be directly in front of them or she would have been hit with the spell first and there would have been no reason for Sirius to duck.


Tonks (in front where Harry can see her) Spell Caster
l
l
l
V


^ ^
Sirius & Harry


This is my funny little diagram of how I picture the scene. I've drawn arrows to show which way the spell is coming from and which way Harry and Sirius are facing, with Tonks off to the side.



Below is what the scene would have to look like if Tonks was hit with the same spell Sirius ducked. According to the description Harry and Sirius duck simultaneously when the green spell narrowly misses Sirius, which shows they are facing the same direction, as they both saw the spell coming. As I said above, Tonks would have to be behind them if she was hit with the spell after Sirius ducks, meaning she is out of their line of vision.


Spell Caster
l
l
l
l
V

^ ^
Sirius & Harry
(duck)
l
l
l
V
Tonks

Sorry about the goofy diagrams, but I thought it might help understand what I was trying to say as it was perhaps rather confusing. Besides, the diagrams were fun to make :D

[Credo Buffa]

Excellent analysis, Elf. I like the visuals :)

I think JKR's point here with putting these two actions in the same sentence is just to reflect on the flurry of activity that is going on in this scene. You are forced as a reader to put both of these images in quick succession, thus making the scene feel more hurried and frantic, and thus more realistically battle-like.

[Kimmetje]

Aren't there other spells that are green and make you see a bit dissy? I think it was a harmfull spell though I do not believe that it was a Avada Kedavra. There is no proof that there is not another spell that is green. For Tonks to survive there would also have to be a big story behind it like someon sacrificing thought that didn't happen either so I don't think this is true. Still HP is the only survivor.

[Nephel]

Aren't there other spells that are green and make you see a bit dissy? I think it was a harmfull spell though I do not believe that it was a Avada Kedavra. There is no proof that there is not another spell that is green. For Tonks to survive there would also have to be a big story behind it like someon sacrificing thought that didn't happen either so I don't think this is true. Still HP is the only survivor.

I don't think the spell Bellatrix used was an "Avada Kedavra", evidence being it hit Tonks and she survived. I think Bellatrix wanted to toy with Sirius and thus didn't want the end the duel quickly.