On Ron in Book Six

[Mutant for Hire]

I would like to disagree with the statement in another thread that Ron is the "normal kid" with no place in the future books, or only a place as Harry's sidekick. I think that the detractors of Ron are completely missing the point as to why Ron was such a distant presence in this book, cut off from the rest of the trio. The fact of the matter was Ron needed time away from Harry for his own growth.

If Harry had not been yanked off the team, then for the rest of the season, Ron would have been depending on Harry to get the Snitch fast enough to cover for Ron's abysmal goalkeeping abilities. With Harry off the team, Ron was forced to develop on his own and get over depending on Harry. It was a long miserable year but in the end he had that one breakthrough, the moment where he thought I can do it and all of a sudden he became an amazing Keeper, to the point where he was a hero to his House despite his abysmal performance the rest of the year.

And for those who comment its only Quidditch, I should point out that a lot of Harry's confidence at the start of the series came out of his finding out he was good at something, Quidditch. He was able to move on from that obviously, but it was a way for Harry to start to grow in confidence. And now Ron has broken through his mental block of despair that was crippling him.

The rest of Ron's life has also come together. With Fred and George out the amount of money for him and Ginny has just doubled. Of course at this point the only thing left for Ron to upgrade is his cauldron, which I don't think ranks nearly as high on the list of things that mattered to him as much as his wand, owl, broomstick and robes. I suspect more of the money will go to Ginny, but the quality of his gear is no longer an issue.

Then there is Draco Malfoy, who used to torment him about his family's poverty, his father being a low ranking member of the Ministry ridiculed by his peers, and how Draco's own dad was well connected and mixing with high members of the Ministry. And this last year, Ron's poor Quidditch skills. All Draco has over Ron now is money, and Ron can easily retort that he'd rather have his father a low ranking member of the Ministry than a prisoner in Azkaban. And Draco is in no position to talk about whose dad is a disgrace to the wizarding community.

In short, Ron's life has come together. Pretty much most of the things that made Ron miserable or insecure about himself have been more or less dealt with. He's still got a few sore spots, but for the most part I think his ego is going to start healing over the summer.

Something to remember is that JKR herself had experiences with poverty, and so I think she wrote something of that into Ron, and just as she has been blessed with riches, I hardly think that she is not going to do something to reward Ron's loyalty and dedication despite all of the handicaps he has struggled with for four years. Ron is certainly the underdog of humble origins, struggling with hardship. I like to think his perserverence will be rewarded.

What Ron's role upcoming is going to be is not clear, but things are changing. The trio has now become a sextet, and so the old dynamic of the trio is going to start shifting as now we have Harry, Ron and Neville, who likewise has had his own breakthrough and is barely going to be recognizable next year (this is the guy who learned a charm faster than everyone but Hermione). There is no reason to assume that Ron is going to continue to be the weak third of the trio the way he has for the last five books.

I do expect Ron to show more of a spine when dealing with Harry and Hermione, and they are going to have to get used to Ron being more assertive. Of course book five is also the book where Ron started to become more of the tiebreaker in the arguments between Harry and Hermione, but with three more people added in, it's not clear if that role is still needed.

Hermione next year is going to learn that she actually was wrong in an argument with Ron the previous year, over SPEW. Ron and Hermione came down on opposite sides, and it wasn't Ron who was wrong about what Hermione was doing. The only reason Hermione's efforts didn't cause trouble that year was because Dobby was covering for her. If that changes, Hermione is going to find out that she really should have been listening to Ron the previous year.

I also suspect this is the year where Ron is going to finally work up the nerve to perform the supreme act of courage and ask Hermione out. How that will go is a matter of much debate. Certainly Ron becoming more self-confident and having greater self-respect and self-esteem isn't going to hurt his chances. I think now that Ron is respecting himself more, other people will respect him more, including Hermione.

People should remember the Harry of book five is not the Harry of book four, who is not the Harry of book three and so on. That Ron has not changed much for five books does not mean that Rowling is not going to have him change in books six and seven. That was one of the lessons of the pensive. So Ron was a bit of an idiot in his fifth year, he wasn't as bad as James Potter, who grew up enough over book sixth to be made Head Boy his seventh. There is every reason to think we're going to see Ron making great progress next book.

[haycheng]

SPEW has it reason. I do not expect Hermione to drop the topic. Fine turn it may be but to listen to Ron and drop the whole thing is out of question. SPEW will become part of the important storyline eventually.
Ron will definely be more confident and I agree we should not view him as weak. However, I do not expect that much progress. The progress you have make Ron no longer Ron. I hate you replace one of my favor character...

[Mad Eye Mike]

What's also important to remember is that the books are called 'Harry Potter and the...' and NOT 'Ron Weasley and the...'. Ron is a supporting character and any growth he experiences won't be as great as Harry's nor should it be as ultimately it's Harry's story, not Ron's.

[GilyAnn]

:bigtu: :bow: Excellent post!

Ron is bound to become a trully great character. I really think that he is on his way to become Head Boy and Prefect. Ron display a lot of diplomacy in dealing with people and while many others could have been picked for Prefect. Ron display a sense of maturity that will help him a lot.

We are hearing Ron advice Hermione on the SPEW stuff for a long time and I do think you are right. It wasn't a bigger issue because Dobby was covering. Hermione really should start to consider the house elves feelings because this could be a very big problem.

Excellent post!
Gily Ann

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by Ecthelion (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=477004#post477004))
Gilyann:


Gilyann, just wondering but where did you see Ron being Diplomatic and showing signs of Maturity? You've added that a lot in your posts lately and I could help but notice...Also, I'm being sincere, not goading you so I can just cut you down. It's kind of hard to interpret people's tones when the words are typed, obviously, so I don't want you to take this the wrong way.

Thanks :)


Ron's maturity has yet to be seen, but we have seen flashes of better people skills than Hermione at the least (who is the girl that nearly got Harry and herself killed in the forest by centaurs due to a near fatal case of foot in mouth disease). Ron, when he bothers to apply himself, does not lack a certain grace of words, or a certain degree of perceptiveness.

As I stated before, he understood what was going to happen with Hermione's plans to free the House Elves better than Hermione did. Dobby pretty much confirmed how correct Ron was right later. The House Elves stopped cleaning Gryffindor Tower. If Ron hadn't uncovered the clothes, who knows what might have happened, but it could have been worse.

Ron is capable of using soothing words. He mollified Hermione in class at one point, when she threatened to withhold her History of Magic Notes. He knew exactly the right words to say to her. And later on when Hermione offered to correct their astrology essays, he did do a very nice job of thanking her, and his words did seem to put her in a good humor then.

Next, it was Ron who noticed that Harry had reservations about dating Cho. Hermione wasn't bothering to pay attention to Harry. She just assumed without bothering to see if his feelings had shifted.

And lastly, whether or not it was really warranted, he did keep Hermione from bringing up the topic of Sirius after the disasterous raid on the Ministry. He kept her quiet and let Harry be. And for that matter, she was heeding his advice to simply leave Harry be then, so he must have been doing something right to persuade her.

I will say that there are plenty of other times where he needed to improve a lot, but the fact of the matter is that when Ron does bother to apply himself, he is not without a certain degree of charm or perceptiveness. His main issue is bothering to apply himself, and quite possibly recognizing those traits as something he should work on and apply himself in.

[reenyun]

I also don't see how Ron is diplomatic. In fact, Ron shows signs of being immature. After his quidditch victory, when Harry and Hermione were trying to tell him about Grawp, Ron had trouble listening at first because he was going on and on about his Quidditch skills. Ron also ruffled his hair much like the way James did to show off. Of course, he has reason to be excited, but it still shows that Ron's focus is on his own fame. This goes back to when Ron looked into the mirror of Erised and saw that his greatest desire was fame/popularity. Such a desire is hardly mature and altruistic.

Ron lack of maturity could be the reason that he continues to misunderstand Hermione's quest to free the house elves. The house elves are being exploited. They have also been brainwashed. They believe that their place in the world is fine. It's like the situation in some 3rd world countries where workers are being paid barely enough to survive, but the workers don't realize that there is a better life. To say Hermione is wrong with SPEW, is to advocate exploitation.

I think Ron will grow in books 6 and 7. The level of maturity that he is showing is typical for a boy his age, so he has plenty of time to mature. He's already showing many positive qualities. He is loyal, brave, and trustworthy. That's a great start.


EDIT: I agree, haycheng. :clappy: I think SPEW will be important in future books. :clappy: Wonderful post, Mad Eye Mike!

[sone]

Originally posted by Mad Eye Mike (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=476944#post476944))
What's also important to remember is that the books are called 'Harry Potter and the...' and NOT 'Ron Weasley and the...'. Ron is a supporting character and any growth he experiences won't be as great as Harry's nor should it be as ultimately it's Harry's story, not Ron's.


:elaugh: :rotfl: How true...

[Ecthelion]

mutant for hire, thank you, I'll reply with a long post on that particular subject and Ron maturing tomorrow. As of now, I've got to go.

Also, my post that you quoted, it's gone, and I really don't know where it went :??: Oh well.

[Mutant for Hire]

Originally posted by reenyun (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=477069#post477069))
I also don't see how Ron is diplomatic. In fact, Ron shows signs of being immature. After his quidditch victory, when Harry and Hermione were trying to tell him about Grawp, Ron had trouble listening at first because he was going on and on about his Quidditch skills.

In Ron's defense, how did he know that Harry and Hermione had anything to say about giants? He didn't even know that they hadn't attended the match. His assumption was that they had sat through the match and why shouldn't he babble about his first real victory? I expect if Hagrid hadn't dragged them off, Harry would have been more than happy to talk about Ron's playing.

Ron also ruffled his hair much like the way James did to show off. Of course, he has reason to be excited, but it still shows that Ron's focus is on his own fame. This goes back to when Ron looked into the mirror of Erised and saw that his greatest desire was fame/popularity. Such a desire is hardly mature and altruistic.

Well, James grew up and became Head Boy and got Lily Evans to go out with him. As Sirius and Lupin said, sometimes you can be stupid when you were fifteen. I've never said that Ron was particularly mature in this book. Others have said that, but not me. I expect that like James, Ron will do some growing up in his sixth year.

Ron lack of maturity could be the reason that he continues to misunderstand Hermione's quest to free the house elves. The house elves are being exploited. They have also been brainwashed. They believe that their place in the world is fine. It's like the situation in some 3rd world countries where workers are being paid barely enough to survive, but the workers don't realize that there is a better life. To say Hermione is wrong with SPEW, is to advocate exploitation.

It's complicated. As I've said in another thread, it is entirely possible that the House Elves do not view themselves as in an employer/employee relationship. My personal feeling is that they view themselves as a member of the family. Yes, sometimes your family treats you horribly but you still care and love them and being handed clothes is the equivalent of being given a divorce.

Hermione works very hard on behalf of Harry and Ron. Is she being exploited? No, because she does this of her own free will. The question really becomes why the House Elves are doing it. To assume their brainwashed is to put a human interpretation on the behavior of alien people. It may be true, but it is entirely possible that Hermione does not really understand the House Elf position.

Lastly, what gives her the right to decide what is best for the House Elves over the House Elves own wishes? She is exhibiting the exact same sort of arrogance that other wizards exihibit towards other non-human races. Hermione's behavior could be considered merely a continuation of "the white man's burden" and all that wonderful thinking that led to British Imperialism and the imposing of British beliefs on native cultures. In the end, I think the House Elves have the right to decide what they want.

Ron actually shows more respect to the House Elves than Hermione does. He uncovers the hats, and doesn't remove them. He gives them the choice to take the hats and go or not as they choose. Ron gives them a choice where Hermione tries to deny the choice and trick them into doing what she wants whether or not its what they want.

I think Ron will grow in books 6 and 7. The level of maturity that he is showing is typical for a boy his age, so he has plenty of time to mature. He's already showing many positive qualities. He is loyal, brave, and trustworthy. That's a great start.

Indeed. All I was saying in my original essay is that he's got a massive boost in confidence and most of his traditional reasons for being insecure have gone away. And in a followup post I indicate that he can be tactful and even good with words when he bothers, which in some ways makes his typical rude and insensitive behavior even worse because he can do better when he applies himself.

[reenyun]

Mutant for Hire, you bring up good points. James did grow up and become Head Boy, and Ron could as well. I was commenting on his current state of maturity as background information, and I wasn't addressing you directly about Ron's maturity issue.

On the SPEW and Hermione topic:
Originally posted by Mutant for Hire (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=477137#post477137))

Hermione works very hard on behalf of Harry and Ron. Is she being exploited? No, because she does this of her own free will. The question really becomes why the House Elves are doing it. To assume their brainwashed is to put a human interpretation on the behavior of alien people. It may be true, but it is entirely possible that Hermione does not really understand the House Elf position.

Lastly, what gives her the right to decide what is best for the House Elves over the House Elves own wishes? She is exhibiting the exact same sort of arrogance that other wizards exihibit towards other non-human races. Hermione's behavior could be considered merely a continuation of "the white man's burden" and all that wonderful thinking that led to British Imperialism and the imposing of British beliefs on native cultures. In the end, I think the House Elves have the right to decide what they want.

Ron actually shows more respect to the House Elves than Hermione does. He uncovers the hats, and doesn't remove them. He gives them the choice to take the hats and go or not as they choose. Ron gives them a choice where Hermione tries to deny the choice and trick them into doing what she wants whether or not its what they want.



It's really unrealistic to compare Hermione's work for Harry and Ron with the work that the house elves do for wizarding families. Hermione, Harry, and Ron are equals. We know that Hermione have the CHOICE to be friends with Harry and Ron. House elves DO NOT have that CHOICE. They are expected to serve, and they are not free to CHOOSE. You are right to write that it's a complicated issue. The only way to tackle a complicated issue is to bring attention to it. Hermione is the only person who tries to bring attention to this issue. The other wizards are comfortable with the status quo. They are not willing to discuss it. Hermione's methods are not perfect, but she at least wants to do something about the house elf situation. She did rush things by putting out clothing. It wasn't a great idea. She's not perfect, and she's young. Even Dumbledore makes mistakes.

We can see with Dobby that house elves could be happy as free individuals. Perhaps with education and choices, the other house elves would also choose to be free.

Since Ron saw less action in book 5, I hope he will play a bigger role in book 6.

[Ame]

Let me first start off by saying that Mutant for Hire and Gily Ann... lovely wonderful post. :clappy: I couldn't agree more...

I am extremely fond of the point you made Mutant for Hire that when Ron applies himself he can be quite the young man. Like when he even "mollifies" Hermione after she threatened to with hold her notes. (In all honestly it's one of my favorite little scenes in the book)...

I have always felt that Ron's character has been greatly underestimated by many people, mostly because people tend to compare him to Hermione or Harry, when that's not very fair to any of the three at all.

There isn't a doubt in my mind that Ron will continue to grow and surprise us as the series comes to close...

Anyway, great posts again Mutant for Hire and Gily Ann it's nice to see that in a thread that supports Ron there are those who defend him and not flock to put his character down.

Have nice day everybody!!! ;)

[schwarzendrache]

Originally posted by Mutant for Hire (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=477137#post477137))
Lastly, what gives her the right to decide what is best for the House Elves over the House Elves own wishes? She is exhibiting the exact same sort of arrogance that other wizards exihibit towards other non-human races. Hermione's behavior could be considered merely a continuation of "the white man's burden" and all that wonderful thinking that led to British Imperialism and the imposing of British beliefs on native cultures. In the end, I think the House Elves have the right to decide what they want.


Seriously, I think what Hermione is doing is right.
Sure, the idea of freedom sounds absurd and heretic to those whose ancestors have all been slaves. Now, most people have become free. Lots of blacks didn't want to leave their households when the civil war ended. Talk about it now?
Of course, the wizarding world could continue doing this forever. No-one would complain, other than a few mis-treated house-elfs. But this is a form of slavery. Absolutely no excuse for it. Would you like to be the peasant-farmer in feudal Europe? No. Why? Because you've experienced freedom and democracy. Why not educate the house-elfs about this, if you consider them intelligent beings?
Not to add that DD, always a force of reason in this book, also supports SPEW.

EDIT: Of the part about imperialism: Yeah, she has no right to impose her will on the house-elves. Yeah, Lincoln had no right to free the blacks [against some of their wills]. Yeah, Locke was a crackpot old fool. Come on, what is wrong must be changed. It's not like the house-elves were BORN to serve humans.

[reenyun]

Originally posted by schwarzendrache (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=477431#post477431))
Seriously, I think what Hermione is doing is right.
Sure, the idea of freedom sounds absurd and heretic to those whose ancestors have all been slaves. Now, most people have become free. Lots of blacks didn't want to leave their households when the civil war ended. Talk about it now?
Of course, the wizarding world could continue doing this forever. No-one would complain, other than a few mis-treated house-elfs. But this is a form of slavery. Absolutely no excuse for it. Would you like to be the peasant-farmer in feudal Europe? No. Why? Because you've experienced freedom and democracy. Why not educate the house-elfs about this, if you consider them intelligent beings?
Not to add that DD, always a force of reason in this book, also supports SPEW.


:clappy: I agree.

The house elves are obviously intelligent beings, and they should be given equal treatment. Ron is still blind to this problem. Of course, he does have the disadvantage of growing up with house elf slavery as the norm. However, he can be blamed for not giving SPEW more thought. I hope he will mature enough to regard SPEW seriously.

EDIT: Originally posted by schwarzendrache (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=477431#post477431))

EDIT: Of the part about imperialism: Yeah, she has no right to impose her will on the house-elves. Yeah, Lincoln had no right to free the blacks [against some of their wills]. Yeah, Locke was a crackpot old fool. Come on, what is wrong must be changed. It's not like the house-elves were BORN to serve humans.


Great point again! It takes a great person to stand up for what's right against the popular opinion. Hermione is taking a stand and she won't back down even with all the discouragements. She will find a way to get through.

[Mutant for Hire]

Okay, I've created a new thread for the House Elf issue since I'd rather keep this thread on topic.

[reenyun]

Sorry, I got carried away :o

[Dark Fallen Pride]

So, back to Ron then,
I do think that Ron should change up a bit, the least he could do is ask Hermione out, and also Ron is a great character who needs to be seen some more in the book, I love the kind of books that go into the other characters a bit, I would love to see Ron make his mark in the wizarding world.

[Hpmons]

I do agree that Ron is more than simply Harry's sidekick: Harry himself was pondering over this when he found out Ron had been made a prefect, and not him (because he thought he was better than Ron at first).

Ron does have quite low self-esteem, but I think it will increase whilst he is on the Quidditch team, and after he has asked someone out. It is understandable that he has low self-esteem as he said himself in the first book that if he achieved something it would never be that great, as all his older siblings had achieved it first. He saw in the Mirror of Erised that he was Quidditch Captain and Head boy: Something he had always wanted to be. And of course, as explained in the fourth book, he is also best friends with Harry, who also overshadows him.

P.S: Mutant for Hire, I have read several of your threads and theories, and I have come to the conclusion that you are JKR in disguise. I worship you!

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Mutant, where is your house elf thread? I can't find it.

On to Ron. I really can't see how Ron would not change immensely in the next two books. For one, he almost certainly will go out with Hermione in the next two books, which will change him. Also, going along with JKR's tolerance theme, the House elves will gradually start to agree with Hermione and Ron will realize she was right (although I agree that Ron did the right thing in taking the litter off the hats). For three, like someone said, Quidditch will be a catalyst for Ron, giving him more confidence that he needs. Four, Fred and George will eliminate any money problems. Five, he already gets as good grades as Harry, the best wizard in the world, so shouldn't that count for something?

[Dragonfly the 2nd]

In my opinion, Hermione has no right to do what's against the house-elves will. And they DO exist to serve humans (sort of), because there's a magic on them so that they can't disobey. I don't know if this is man-made magic or not, but apparently it's been around for a while.And most house-elves are happy to have masters. It's not just that wizards and witches are lazy. I mean, can't they bewitch the work to do itself? That's what the Weasleys do, isn't it? House elves are willing to work for their masters. The only problem is that their masters often mistreat them. Not by overworking then, but by kicking them around. And the Hogwarts house-elves are probably free to quit whenever they want. SPEW will most likely end up being a theme in the next 2 books, but that doesn't mean Hermione's doing the right thing. In my opinion, Ron is correct in saying she's insulting the house-elevs. And I think this is the one time Ron will be right and Hermione will be wrong...

[Sirius83]

Now, most of the other posters here have stated reasons why they disagree and i agree with them - but i'd like to throw something else out.

There is a pattern where from books 1-5, Ron gets a smaller and smaller role each time. In other words, his role was at its highest in PS/SS and has degraded by the book until it was at its lowest point in OOTP. Now i do believe that Ron will come out in a big way in book 7 as we approach the final showdown(probably his death, but that's for antoher thread), but - i believe this diminishing role will continue into book 6. If it is not diminished in book 6, i expect it to be something around what it was in GOF(fallout and all).

I do see Ron getting a better role than he has now towards the end, i disagree that he's going to have a big turnaround in book 6. It's going to either start getting slightly better to where it was in OOTP, or continue the path of books 1-5 and decrease even more.

[wahsup86]

I agree with Mutant For Hire almost entirley, except for one thing. I don't believe Ron will ask out Hermione in book six, only becasue I feel JKR wants to keep the pairings (at least the final ones) undecided until book seven.

[tree guardian]

Great origianal post Mutant For Hire. :clap:

I agree :agree: Ron should be filled with a new self-confidence and outlook. All of what you said is pretty much on point. Draco has nothing to boast about and nothing to rag on. Ron came leaps and bounds with Quidditch and his confiedence, and Ron was right about the SPEW thing. He was right that Hermione was insulting them. She was. SPEW is important and will have a role in the last books, but just as Hermione insulted the Centars by accident she is insulting the HouseElves. Perhaps Ron will help Hermione find a better way to get her point accross to the HouseElves. :)

Ron has no reason to be depressed in Book 6. At least no reason as far as his inferior complex is concerned. WHo knows what his relationship with Percy will be when we see them next.

Ron was in some ways the "tie breaker" between Harry and Hermione arguments but mostly he just kept his mouth shut. I am still uneasy about the whole silence thing and Harry's view of it. Ron hasn't shown much maturity as of yet, but I'm sure he will in the next books. It's either grow up or screw up.

:) Nice posting with ya'.

[Goldie]

This topic reminds me of threads where people state that Ron was Dumbledore's second choice for Prefect, and that Harry was his first choice. And yet, at the end of OotP, we hear Dumbledore clearly state that, essentially, Harry was never in the running for Prefect, as he had other things more pressing.

What I see in OotP is Ron finally coming into his own - and about time! He's doing stuff as an individual and is beginning to be seen by others as more than just the sidekick. He's no longer Harry's shadow.

I also think we're seeing the Mirror of Erised vision in PS/SS starting to come true - to become Quidditch Captain you've first got to make the team, and to become Head Boy, you may have to be a Prefect first.

Consider this - Dumbledore knows what Ron saw in the mirror, and while he couldn't do anything to get him on the team, he certainly is in a position to see to it that Ron becomes Head Boy if he has what it takes. I haven't seen anything that would make Dumbledore rule out this possibility for Ron, so I'm willing to bet he does become Head Boy, much to Gred and Forge's eternal shame!

And besides, Harry's just one person. He can't go to class, do his homework, run the Quidditch team, be Head Boy and get rid of Voldie all at the same time.

[Mutant for Hire]

You know, that is a very interesting point, that Dumbledore saw Ron's heart's desire.

In any case, thinking about Ron's situation a bit more, I expect that book six is going to be an uncomfortable year for Ron, for the opposite reason than many people think. Far from growing increasingly marginal, I think Ron's real headache next year is dealing with everyone's expectations rising for him.

Everyone is going to expect the brilliant playing he showed in the last game of the last season all during this season. If he gets a lot of O.W.L.s, there's going to be the expectation for him to get a lot of N.E.W.T.s. And then there's the fact that if he wants to be Head Boy he has to do well as Prefect and so on.

Ron is going to find that the price of success is that everyone expects you to succeed again.

[Fairydust]

i can totally see Ron stressed out in the next book. He'll be reaching for an aspirin in no time. :D

[rons-lover]

Mutant for Hire, I agree with much of what you have said. With the exception of the Hermione thing. I'm not so sure about Ron/Hermione. And I wouldn't call James Potter an idiot. Maybe he got carried away with things sometimes, but the important thing is that he grew out of it eventually.! :D

But I've been saying that Ron will grow alot in the books to come, he did have some revelations in this book with Quiddich and Prefect(despite him not doing much with it this year, I see promise for the coming year.! :D). And I really think we wont see him as Harry's sidekick anymore. He's had a bit of growth and I think we'll see alot more.!

I actually used to hate Ron, but now I don't, after think about the book for a month and 1/2 have I've gained alot of respect for many characters I never really cared about.!: Lupin, Ginny, McGonnagol, just to name a few.

Though he's had some MAJOR breakthroughs I think Ron will truely come even more into his own in book 6. Remember some people take longer to grow up then others. We all go at our own pace, despite the pressures of society. :p

[Sirius83]

Oh, i don't know. I'll take this point by point.

Good theory about Dumbledore finding out what Ron wanted, but let's face facts here - Ron was not Dumbledore's first choice. Harry was. But, Dumbledore felt Harry had too much on his plate and gave it to Ron. It is right there in the book. Dumbledore regretted not doing this, he even shed a tear when telling it to Harry. Look at the words. "I must confess...that I rather thought...you had enough responsibility to be going on with." He was wrong, Harry had enough left over to go forming the D.A. and what not. In any case, the point is - Ron was not Dumbledore's first choice, but rather his second. Now, Ron did not live up to expectations. Yes, you heard me.

JKR made it a point to show Ron not living up to expectations. I know some of you are going to say i'm being hard on Ron, but hey - sorry, i'm pulling all of these directly out of the book.

Look at this one here. He's thinking of getting people for things already, just because he doesn't like them. Not to mention he seems to be taking a certain joy in it already. Is this really how someone deserving of the position would start off his first moments of prefecthood? I'm sorry, but he's got the wrong idea of the job.

We're supposed to patrol the corridors every so often," he told Harry and Neville, "and we can give out punishments if people are misbehaving. I can't wait to get Crabbe and Goyle for something..."
"You're not supposed to abuse your position, Ron!" said Hermione sharply.
"Yeah, right, because Malfoy won't abuse it at all," said Ron sarcastically.
"So you're going to descend to his level?"
"No, i'm just going to make sure I get his mates before he gets mine."
"For heaven's sake, Ron -"
"I'll make Goyle do lines, it'll kill him, he hates writing," said Ron happily. He lowered his voice to Goyle's low grunt and, screwing up his face in a look of pained concentration, mimed writing in midair. "I...must...not...look...like...a...baboon's...backside...."

Also not exactly great at taking charge:

"Ron, we're supposed to show the first years where to go!"
"Oh yeah," said Ron, who had obviously forgotten. "Hey - hey - you lot! Midgets!"
"Ron!"
"Well, they are, they're titchy...."
"I know, but you can't call them midgets....First years!" Hermione called commandingly along the table. "This way, please!"

What about when Fred and George are doing the testing on the new students? When they first put up the notice, we get this:

"Says who?" said George, looking astonished.
"Says me," said Hermione. "And Ron."
"Leave me out of it," said Ron hastily.

Sorry, but part of being a prefect is being able to do the right thing, even fi it means you have to step in front of a friend or family member. You've been given a responsibility, and the point i'm making is Ron is not living up to that responsibility. When we see them actually testing the sweets on the students, we get lines like: "I - what?" said Ron, plainly playing for time. or Ron rose halfway out of his chair, hovered uncertainly for a moment or two, then muttered to Harry, "She's got it under control," before sinking as low in his chair as his lanky frame permitted. It's too much to type out the entire scene, but if you wish to check it for yourself, it's in chapter 13 - "Detention with Dolores".

There was also that time in the Hog's Head.

"You know what?" Ron murmured, looking over at the bar with enthusiasm. "We could order anything we liked in here, I bet that bloke would sell us anything, he wouldn't care. I've always wanted to try firewhisky -"
"You - are - a - prefect," snarled Hermione.
"Oh," said Ron, the smile fading from his face. "Yeah..."

Come on now. Ron should know better than this, he's supposed to be a role model now, he shouldn't need someone else to remind him he's a prefect and shouldn't be doing that.

Think it was only at the start? Nope. Before O.W.L.s, Ron was among those wanting those black-market "aids" to help concentration and the like. You know why it's called black-market right? It's wrong, hence Hermione confiscating them. Yet prefect Ron was one of those trying to buy the things. A prefect should know better and should be the one trying to get rid of them not obtain them for his own use.

Now this is just prefect. We also still have a bit of a problem from Ron as far as maturity(granted, it's better than last time!) and his insecurities. Despite his good luck in this book, i'm afraid Ron just has not been up to scratch. I fail to see this highly mature, secure in his abilities Ron that people speak of.

"I meant the idea Ron and I had" - Ron cast her an alarmed, threatening kind of look; she frowned at him - "oh, all right, the idea I had, then - about you teaching us."

"I thought it was a good idea from the start," said Ron, who seemed keener to join in this conversation now that he was sure that Harry was not going to start shouting again.

Ron seemed determined to give neither his opinion nor his advice.

Not exactly secure in giving an opinion and standing by it...also still seems afraid of rekindling old flames with Harry. Now what about after his first Quidditch game? Now i didn't expect the boy to be confident after what happened at the game, but this scene shows his self confidence nicely. I'm talking about when he was saying he should never have thought he could play Quidditch, that he should resign, how everything was his fault. It's at the end of chapter 19, "The Lion and the Serpent". Now, when he does win the final game, it goes to his head! He wants to stick around the common room to bask in glory, goes ruffling his hair, checking to see if people heard him describe his moves at the match...sorry folks, but someone confident in themselves does not need to do this.

He also seems insecure about his finances, although mind you - his parents are still able to provide for him.

"Fat chance," said Ron, who was examining his own fake Galleon with a slightly mournful air. "I haven't got any real Galleons to confuse it with."

Also, in general, it seems Ron does not seem very grateful for the good luck that has come his way. He has not shown any real appreciation for it. He's gotten a change of luck and you know what? He has not been shown to appreciate it or strive to live up to what he got the chances for. Now i'm not trying to bring down Ron's character. Yes, i agree he's improved from GOF. Yes i think he's going to get a bigger role come book 7. No, i do not agree Ron has had this big turnaround. No, i do not agree he has really changed that much. No, i don't think he has proved himself. In fact, i think some of these things are going to turn around and slap him in the face for book 6. He's going to realise he did not live up to what was given to him. He's probably not going to get the Quidditch Captain position he may now be expecting after winning the cup. He may find Harry, now over his book 5 rage, upset at him for not speaking his mind when he should have. He may find people do not listen to him as a prefect because they believe he's not going to do anything anyway.

[gilgalad]

You know, that is a very interesting point, that Dumbledore saw Ron's heart's desire.


While Dumbledore knows Ron's heart desire, there might be another reason for him to appoint him as prefect, namely, Ron as one of Harry's best friend would be in the best position to protect Harry if he is a prefect.

[FlyingPhoenix]

This is interesting we gonna say that Ron is more as simply a sidekick but Hermione is only the sidekick. Sorry but if Ron is more than is Hermione more, too.

The trio has now become a sextet, and so the old dynamic of the trio is going to start shifting as now we have Harry, Ron and Neville, who likewise has had his own breakthrough and is barely going to be recognizable next year (this is the guy who learned a charm faster than everyone but Hermione).

I disagree the trio is still a trio. The possition of the sextet is simple the one of the DA. The trio will still be that was it is.

I do expect Ron to show more of a spine when dealing with Harry and Hermione, and they are going to have to get used to Ron being more assertive. Of course book five is also the book where Ron started to become more of the tiebreaker in the arguments between Harry and Hermione, but with three more people added in, it's not clear if that role is still needed.


A tiebreaker because Ron is dipolmatic? I disagree if to be quiet or to simply agree is diplomatic than I don't know what my gouverment dos. I really doubt that Ron will be that. There is another path than that its like he start his own seperate life from Harry and that can mean this two crash against each other.

Certainly Ron becoming more self-confident and having greater self-respect and self-esteem isn't going to hurt his chances. I think now that Ron is respecting himself more, other people will respect him more, including Hermione.


Could be but not neccassery. I don't bring Hermione in this so I shut down now.

But I do think Ron will grow and change maybe in that way that he shows more respect to people who aren't hip or pretty. Just like loony Luna.

[Mutant for Hire]

I don't think anyone is going to disagree that Ron wasn't living up to expectations most of this book, Sirius83. Your citing of example after example doesn't change just about anything I've posted as its all based on changes in him after the Quiddich Cup, and I expect that it's going to take the summer for some of these things to sink in.

There are two main points that I would like to base my feeling for change during book six on:

1. James Potter was *worse* than Ron Weasley in his fifth year in terms of maturity, and yet managed to turn around and become Head Boy despite not being named Prefect.
2. One of the things that's been crippling Ron for most of the series is a massive inferiority complex that pretty much makes Ron his worst enemy.

Yes, Ron had maturity issues this book. On the other hand, James grew up during his sixth year. I fail to see why Ron won't be doing the same during his sixth year.

As for his inferiority complex, he finally broke through it in book five. I suspect that at least some of Ron's spinelessness was due to that. Also there are other points that need to be taken into account.

Of course that is going to run into mental inertia as well, as well as new problems. Ron is going to be having to deal with the expectations of success. And even if he does think more of himself, that may make some of his behavior worse in the short term, more like James Potter. But I also think that Ron is going to be growing up. He is not like Fred and George. He has buckled down and done the right thing in the past. He volunteered to be Harry's punching bag in book four, and he was the one who took over for Hermione in Buckbeak's defense in book three.

And FlyingPhoenix, whenever have I said that Hermione was nothing more than a sidekick? Can you cite a reference where I said that please? Please do not put words in my mouth. My discussion of Ron not being a sidekick was to indicate that he was more important than people thought he was. The issue never came up with respect to Hermione.

And I disagree about the trio still being the trio. At worst it has expanded into a quartet with Ginny, but its more likely to be a quintet and it's going to be hard to justify keeping Luna on the outside loop given how much she knows already about them. But I can use Hermione's actions herself to indicate the trio is over. When Harry followed her down to his room in 12 Grimmauld place, it wasn't just Ron waiting there, but Ron and Ginny.

[Elric]

I think that OOTP was a good scene setter for Ron, and now we have to wait for book six to see how he handles the opportunities he' been given.

Firstly the prefect role. Looking at OOTP it seems that much of Ron's reticence was down to him not wanting to get into conflict with Fred & George, but with the twins no longer at Hogwarts this is no longer an impediment.

Let's face it even Percy when he was head boy/prefect couldn't keep much of a rein on the twins, and Percy took his prefect's duties very seriously. So I think that the juries still out on whether Ron is going to be a 'good' prefect or not.

Secondly the quidditch role. I suppose this could go one of three ways. Firstly Ron could get the, incorrect, impression that he's god's gift to quidditch and have a really inflated opinion of himself. You could suggest that this has been foreshadowed by Ron's unconscious imitation of James by ruffling his hair etc. I hope this isn't the case, as if Ron became too overbearing it would take away from the characters basic likeability.

As has been suggested by other posters, the pressure of expectation could get to Ron, and he'd fall back into his insecure mode, and as soon as he made a mistake, and everyone's going to make mistakes somewhere, his confidence falls to pieces. Again I hope that Ron hasn't been built up, just so that he can be knocked down. I can see how this could be woven into the story, but it wouldn't be good news for Ron's character overall.

The final option, and the best one that I can see for him, is Ron just realising that he's an accepted and important member of the team. winning isn't all down to him, but the game won't be won unless he's on form.

Finally, I think that Ron won't be made captain for the team, basically due to team seniority. I believe that one of the Chasers is still at Hogwarts, I think it's Katie Bell but I could be wrong, so both she and Harry have more seniority than Ron, so unless both of them were found to be unwilling or unable to perform the role of captain, I can't see it being offered to Ron.

[Mad I]

I think that Ron will take the Prefect role seriously but that doesn't mean that he will keep everything under control (as evidenced by your Percy example). I think that once Harry is back on the team that they will share a major role on the team (with Ron possibly being lifted up by a role as Captain??). I do agree that he probably won't be, but you never know.

[wahsup86]

So far Ron so far has been the character who never gets what he deserves, despite being a nice person and an even better friend. Now people have disagreed with me on this and made the *correction* that this is Harry's role, while I can see why they would say this, I disagree for a few reasons.

Yes Harry has had a miserable life, no parents, Sirius gone, and living with the Dursleys. But while Harry does to some extent fill this role, Ron has been doing it for five books in a different sense. He is poor, over-shadowed, and has low confidence. He constantly complains about being poor because he can't find another way of dealing with it. And there are many contrasts in where things happen for Harry that haven't for Ron. Harry is famous, he has his VERY expensive firebolt, and the one that points out most in my mind, he got the girl he was after (ignoring this was brief and on and off, but still more sucess than Ron has had).

I would love to see Ron catch a break finally, because he DESERVES it. Ron is a very down-trodded person, and although Harry is worse off (in a different sense though) I feel more for Ron. And finally JKR seems to be giving Ron a break toward the end of OoTp.

Many people are arguing that Ron gloated and talked too much when he won the Quidditch cup and that he as arrogant as James. The only reason he did this is because he didn't know how to deal with his moment in the spotlight, he has never been in that situation before. All his life he has played second fiddle to his siblings, and even Harry and Hermione, and for once hen was the one who stood out. He was just overwhelmed and didn't know what to do, becasue essentially, this was what Ron had wanted, a chance to break free and shine on his own. Ron's somewhat arrogant behavior is perfectly understandable to me.

And I do hope he is given more time to shine individualy in book six. And I would really like to seem him have some success with everything he has been unsuccesful in so far (namely his Hermione situation).

[Sirius83]

What i'm saying is, there has not been enough of a turnaround for Ron to suddenly be this whole new person in book 6, over his insecurities and what not. By the way, about Percy and the twins - difference here is Ron refused to even try to do anything, he stayed away from having to put his foot down - i see that as a problem. As for James Potter - he's a completely different person to Ron, really. Ron isn't a jerk. Ron's no bully, Ron doesn't need a massive personality change. In any case, let me see if i can say it this way. I'm not saying i don't expect changes in Ron for the better. I'm just saying i don't see it happening in book 6, but rather in 7. I think some of his actions in OOTP that i have shown in my last post will come back to haunt him in book 6. It is then because of this that we'll see the change in book 7. I think this far more likely than Ron sitting down and thinking things over the summer then coming back in book 6 all changed.

EDIT: Getting everything you want isn't always the best course of action. However, Ron did get lucky breaks in this book, but he didn't really show any real appreciation for it, and i thik this will be back to haunt him in book 6. But why is Ron so unfortunate? Ron has things much better than Harry - wouldn't you say it's time Harry got a break instead? I've said this before and i'll say it again: Ron's not the one who had his parents killed and grew up with an abusive family. Ron's not the one who has lived years without friends. Ron's not the one who grew up without love. Ron's not the one who has to deal with people staring at him and discussing him everywhere he goes. Ron's not the one who had to watch a schoolmate and his godfather murdered in cold blood. Ron's not the one who got betrayed by the ones he thought he could trust, Ron's not the one who had to deal with his entire school against him. Ron's not the one who is either going to have to die or be the murderer and kill Voldemort. Sorry guys, but a bit of financial problems and not always being in the spotlight isn't enough for me to have pity on Ron. Ron's got it quite good compared to Harry.

[Mutant for Hire]

Actually, there are reasons to expect a difference in Ron between the end of book five and the start of book six, in a reverse fashion for the change in Harry between the end of book four and the start of book five.

1. He became a good Quidditch player and won the cup, which have Ron's self-esteem a massive shot for the better. And remember, exactly what was it that really gave Harry's self-esteem a jolt in book one? Harry was finally more than just the boy with the famous scar. He had done something on his own for once. Now Ron has his own small victory without Harry, proving to himself that he can do something on his own.
2. Fred and George are either out of the house or at least paying their own way now, leaving twice as much money to spend on Ron and Ginny. Next book it is entirely possible that none of his stuff will be junk.
3. The fall of the Malfoy family. Draco Malfoy has been a persistant pain, and is really more truly Ron's nemesis than Harry's. Malfoy has been a constant pain in Ron, pouring salt in Ron's emotional wounds about his family's poverty, his father's low rank in the Ministry, and this year his lousy Quidditch playing.

I am hoping that Ron will get a good number of O.W.L.s this summer, so that he has an accomplishment to match Bill and Percy. The Quidditch season proved that Ron had natural ability, but the fact of the matter is that his insecurities always gave him problems. Fred and George leaving the school gave him some breathing room and he finally had that mental breaktrhough and became the Keeper he always had the potential to be.

I do expect Ron to have more growing pains next year, but then I expect the same of Harry and Hermione as well. I have shifted from my initial position. Ron is going to be even more insecure next year. Ron's going to have to deal with increased expectations of him next year, in Quidditch and quite possibly in academics as well. If he scores a lot of O.W.L.s he's going to be expected to get a lot of N.E.W.T.s as well. And as he's a prefect now, his parents are going to expect him to do well enough to become Head Boy the following year as well.

And yes, Harry has had it worse in many ways than Ron. On the flip side, Ron never got the special breaks that Harry did, all the way from the first book. Remember how Harry got on the Quidditch team in the first place? And Harry was just given a top of the line broomstick. After it broke he was given another top of the line broomstick. And the rules have been bent for Harry more than once. I'm not sure that it balances out, but don't think that Harry hasn't gotten anything.

And Ron's childhood wasn't precisely free of care either. Remember how Ron got his fear of spiders. Growing up with Fred and George as brothers was not a significant improvement over Dudley and his gang. And then his mother was probably always holding Percy up as an example to Ron of what he should be. As the youngest of the boys, I expect that Ron got more than a little smothered as well at times, more than was good for him. Look at how Molly treated Harry this book. That's not entirely healthy for a boy.

And then there is the fact that in all the family games, Ron was always trying to catch up to his older brothers. I think that's where he got the complex about never being good at anything. He was at least two years behind the rest of his family and so constantly being outdone by the rest of his older brothers and it's left him a complex. For all Dudley was treated better than Harry, Harry knew it was sheer favoratism. Harry knew that Dudley was a stupid spoiled git who didn't deserve what he got. Ron grew up constantly bested by his brothers in skill and experience, which in some ways was worse.

I am not saying that Harry hasn't had it worse, overall, but Ron has had his own problems and I think that Ron deserves some sympathy. Not much, because his life is finally improving to the point where all the traditional reasons for his feeling terrible are going away. Just because Harry has serious problems doesn't mean that Ron's problems are trivial and can be treated with contempt.

[tree guardian]

Good theory about Dumbledore finding out what Ron wanted, but let's face facts here - Ron was not Dumbledore's first choice. Harry was. But, Dumbledore felt Harry had too much on his plate and gave it to Ron. It is right there in the book. Dumbledore regretted not doing this, he even shed a tear when telling it to Harry. Look at the words. "I must confess...that I rather thought...you had enough responsibility to be going on with." He was wrong, Harry had enough left over to go forming the D.A. and what not.

I agree. I don't think Ron was Dumbledore's first choice, and Harry was obviously a choice Dumbledore considered, but decided against. Dumbledore decided against Harry being prefect because he thought Harry had enough responsibilty (I also think DD was referring to the "prophetic" responsibility that Harry didn't even know about).

JKR made it a point to show Ron not living up to expectations. I know some of you are going to say i'm being hard on Ron, but hey - sorry, i'm pulling all of these directly out of the book.[QUote]

That's what I was thinking too, when I read OotP. I was kinda disappointed in Ron, as far as his method of carrying out his prefectual duties.


[QUOTE]Sorry, but part of being a prefect is being able to do the right thing, even fi it means you have to step in front of a friend or family member. You've been given a responsibility, and the point i'm making is Ron is not living up to that responsibility. When we see them actually testing the sweets on the students, we get lines like: "I - what?" said Ron, plainly playing for time. or Ron rose halfway out of his chair, hovered uncertainly for a moment or two, then muttered to Harry, "She's got it under control," before sinking as low in his chair as his lanky frame permitted. It's too much to type out the entire scene, but if you wish to check it for yourself, it's in chapter 13 - "Detention with Dolores".

Come on now. Ron should know better than this, he's supposed to be a role model now, he shouldn't need someone else to remind him he's a prefect and shouldn't be doing that.

As far as Ron being a role model, I don't think Ron really wanted to be a role model. I'm sure he didn't view himself in that way yet, when he found out he was a prefect. I think Ron liked the title and the fact that it made some members of his family very happy as well as earned him the respect of some of his peers, but I don't think Ron was too concerned with the responsiblity part of being prefect. It seemed a burden to ROn. It took away from time he could have spent practicing Quidditch too. (I think that was apart of a statement ROn made in OotP too.)

Also, in general, it seems Ron does not seem very grateful for the good luck that has come his way. He has not shown any real appreciation for it. He's gotten a change of luck and you know what? He has not been shown to appreciate it or strive to live up to what he got the chances for. Now i'm not trying to bring down Ron's character. Yes, i agree he's improved from GOF. Yes i think he's going to get a bigger role come book 7. No, i do not agree Ron has had this big turnaround. No, i do not agree he has really changed that much. No, i don't think he has proved himself. In fact, i think some of these things are going to turn around and slap him in the face for book 6. He's going to realise he did not live up to what was given to him. He's probably not going to get the Quidditch Captain position he may now be expecting after winning the cup. He may find Harry, now over his book 5 rage, upset at him for not speaking his mind when he should have. He may find people do not listen to him as a prefect because they believe he's not going to do anything anyway.

Hmm, interesting take on how Ron's behavior and actions or lack thereof may affect him in book 6. I see your point(s). :agree:

:)

[Sirius83]

Good post. You make some good points, but i can't ignore the things i mentioned previously. I still tend to think book 6 will be what makes him start changing, although hey - at least we can agree it's going to be a hard year for him, heh. On a side note, i seriously doubt he's going to be made head boy...but we'll have to see how book 6 shapes up before seriously discussing that.

Now i'm not saying forget Ron's problems because they're worse than Harry. I do see Ron's problems but i think he should be a little more appreciative when he's able to see first hand what Harry's been through, know what i mean? Additionally, how shall i say - Ron's attitude starting from POA over the broomstick into GOF with the fallout really made me lose a lot of respect for him. I was hoping to see a much improved Ron in book 5, but i didn't see it. I had a bad feeling about the way JKR left that fallout somewhat unresolved and the little things like Ron not wanting to put his foot down in OOTP and not showing any real appreciation for the strokes of good luck he was given in this book didn't sit well with me at all.

I'm of the belief that if just a few little things had been different, the feel of Ron's character in this book would have been much more positive. For instance with Fred and George, if he had just at least accompanied Hermione when she went to speak to the twins or something rather than just sink low into his seat. If he hadn't started planning to catch Crabbe and Goyle for something upon becoming prefect, tried to be a little better with the first years, speak his mind with Harry even when Harry may not have been in the best of moods, been a bit humble after winning Quidditch...you know, just the little things like that...it would have said volumes about him. However, the lack of these things is disturbing and is why i think some things may be back to haunt him in book 6.

[Mutant for Hire]

Let's see what Ron did after winning the cup: 1) talked about the game, reliving his victory, 2) ruffled his hair. Now admittedly that is isn't exactly the epitomy of humility, but do we have any reason to think that Harry was better than that after his Quidditch victory, where he was described as glowing over it for a week in book three? And Harry was pretty excited after he did well in his first Quidditch game. I think you're being extremely harsh on Ron for being excited about his first real accomplishment on his own, away from Harry. There is very little that could be construed as being arrogant.

As for Fred and George, I think that's a special case. Remember that Ron got his phobia of spiders because of something the twins did to him. On some level, I think that Ron is afraid of Fred and George. They've been taking the mickey out of him his whole life. Remember at one point they comment that he's so depressed there's no point in tormenting him, which gives you an idea of how they've been treating him his whole life whenever he made mistakes. Ron needs to build up a lot more self-esteem before he's ready to confront Fred and George.

As for the rest of his Prefect behavior, he could do with a lot of improvement. However I still stand by the fact that Ron never jinxed people because he was feeling bored, even Malfoy. Frankly I think that Ron is no worse than James Potter, and on average I think he's a little better. And if Ron isn't looking like Head Boy material, do you really think that James Potter was the likeliest candidate for Head Boy given his behavior, coupled to Lupin's testamony about why James wasn't made Prefect?

[FlyingPhoenix]

And FlyingPhoenix, whenever have I said that Hermione was nothing more than a sidekick? Can you cite a reference where I said that please? Please do not put words in my mouth. My discussion of Ron not being a sidekick was to indicate that he was more important than people thought he was. The issue never came up with respect to Hermione.

For your information in my statement as I said or write if we going to say Ron is more as a sidekick than we need to say this about Hermione too there was nowhere your name, there was nowhere said that you did say that. So I didn't put your things in your mouth.

[Sirius83]

On the Quidditch ordeal - i'm not trying to be harsh on Ron for being excited about winning. I'm showing where he's not as mature or self confident as being made out in this thread. He can be excited all he wants, but if he's going to be shown to be now confident and mature, he didn't act it. Confident people don't need to boast and see if people are hearing what they're saying about themselves, simple as that/ nor do mature people, that's all i'm saying. Don't hold Ron to a standard he's not.

As for Fred and George, I think that's a special case. Remember that Ron got his phobia of spiders because of something the twins did to him. On some level, I think that Ron is afraid of Fred and George. They've been taking the mickey out of him his whole life. Remember at one point they comment that he's so depressed there's no point in tormenting him, which gives you an idea of how they've been treating him his whole life whenever he made mistakes. Ron needs to build up a lot more self-esteem before he's ready to confront Fred and George.

That's my point right there. Ron isn't anywhere near the level of self esteem being made out he'll have in book 6. That isn't going to just flood him over the summer.

As for the rest of his Prefect behavior, he could do with a lot of improvement. However I still stand by the fact that Ron never jinxed people because he was feeling bored, even Malfoy. Frankly I think that Ron is no worse than James Potter, and on average I think he's a little better. And if Ron isn't looking like Head Boy material, do you really think that James Potter was the likeliest candidate for Head Boy given his behavior, coupled to Lupin's testamony about why James wasn't made Prefect?

Again, exactly my point. He needs to improve a lot. While i can see things happening in book 6 to make him improve - he's not going to just turn up in book 6 changed from book 5. Things could happen in book 6 that will change him in book 7. No, Ron didn't go jinxing out of boredom, but that does not mean that he did not live up to expectations.

I wouldn't compare Ron to James. Ron is leaps and bounds ahead of James really. James was a bully, plain and simple. Yes he changed and was made prefect. However, this is no basis to assume the same of Ron. We don't know what happened to James in sixth year to change him. We also know that James was so full of self confidence that he was arrogant and needed to control that. Ron lacks this self confidence. A Head Boy is going to need to be confident, very much so.

[tree guardian]

So far Ron so far has been the character who never gets what he deserves, despite being a nice person and an even better friend. Now people have disagreed with me on this and made the *correction* that this is Harry's role, while I can see why they would say this, I disagree for a few reasons.

When has Ron never gotten what he's deserved?

Yes Harry has had a miserable life, no parents, Sirius gone, and living with the Dursleys. But while Harry does to some extent fill this role, Ron has been doing it for five books in a different sense. He is poor, over-shadowed, and has low confidence. He constantly complains about being poor because he can't find another way of dealing with it.

How are you comparing the loss of one's parents, the loss of one's godparent/friend/father figure and 10 miseralbe years with the Dursleys to some financial difficulty (that would have certainly effected the parents and older children more, because they are faced with the responsibility of such a state--not Ron), lack of confidence, and being over shadowed?

Harry grew up without knowing a parents love, feeling loved, being the outcast everywhere, including his own home. He has been dealt problems that he cannot do anything about. ROn's one problem that he can't do anything about until he is older--fiancial problems--really is not as bad for him as it may seem. Because Ron is the fifth boy and child of the family, he could never have been without toys, flying brooms (shabby as they may have been-he still had them), clothes, and such becuase of all his male siblings that have come before him. Ron's biggest issue seems to be embarrassment.

I don't find Ron's problem comparable to any Harry has had, but if we were to compare both their "poor" issues, Harry didn't grow up with money either. He never had toys. He served his family and lived in cupboard under the stairs. They told lies about him and he was forced to live with these lies. (This is why Harry had no friends. NOt only did Dudley scare them away but the Mr. and Mrs. Dudley told lies about Harry around the neighborhood). He followed orders and tried his best to stay out of people's way. Harry was a human house elf. NOt until he turned 11 and the Hogwarts letter showed up was he moved. He still doesn't have any possessions of entertainment or sport from the Dursleys. Harry had to wear hand me downs that were too big for him always. He didn't have magic parents to make the clothes handed to him fit. And so on and so forth.

ROn's issues of being overshadowed and unconfident are problems that he has always had the power to overcome. These are issues that Ron has developed from within, and I'm gonna guess they come from him being the youngest boy and his financial embarrassement issue. But Ron wasn't belittled by his family (adult figures included), and peers, constantly, as Harry was.

Everyone deserves happiness equally, but there is nothing in the HP books to even suggest Ron would deserve a "break" over Harry. Infact Ron was sure enough, given a break in OotP. He was made Quidditch Keeper [I]even though others flew better than him at tryouts--he was given the benefit of the doubt. Ron was made Prefect, too. (Perfect opportunity to take charge and really prove oneself at being a leader)

And there are many contrasts in where things happen for Harry that haven't for Ron. Harry is famous, he has his VERY expensive firebolt, and the one that points out most in my mind, he got the girl he was after (ignoring this was brief and on and off, but still more sucess than Ron has had).

I would love to see Ron catch a break finally, because he DESERVES it. Ron is a very down-trodded person, and although Harry is worse off (in a different sense though) I feel more for Ron. And finally JKR seems to be giving Ron a break toward the end of OoTp.

Harry never knew he was famous never got to "benefit" from it until 11 years old. Why would Ron have needed a really expensive broom anyway. He never tried out for the team before book five. And besides a long lost godfather, whom Harry needed very badly for 10 years of his life was trying to make up for lost time by splurging. I'm sure Harry would trade the fire bolt in for those lost 10 years which he will now never get. Ron could get a girl if he really wanted to, but as of yet, having a "girlfriend" doesn't seem to be a goal he has been striving for. Granted he may really like Hermione, but has he pursued a relationship with her--no. That's his own fault. Ron needs to give himself a break from not taking responsiblity for his own lack of action. So far 4 of the reasons you think Ron 'deserves' a break are things Ron has always had the power to do something about. --He gets no pity from me.

Ron is only "a down trodden person" because he lies in the road.

Many people are arguing that Ron gloated and talked too much when he won the Quidditch cup and that he as arrogant as James. The only reason he did this is because he didn't know how to deal with his moment in the spotlight, he has never been in that situation before. All his life he has played second fiddle to his siblings, and even Harry and Hermione, and for once hen was the one who stood out. He was just overwhelmed and didn't know what to do, becasue essentially, this was what Ron had wanted, a chance to break free and shine on his own. Ron's somewhat arrogant behavior is perfectly understandable to me.

I don't think Ron gloated too much. I think his reaction was normal and especially normal Ron behavior. He likes attention and has always taken given opportunities to bask. :agree:

Still if Ron has been playing second fiddle to Harry and Hermione its his own fault for feeling that way. Hermione is not famous but she is smart and makes good grades. She has earned this compliement. She is a very hard worker and very caring. She has been friends with Harry, equal if not less time than ROn, and she never seems to feel (as far as we can tell) overshadowed. Why? Because she doesn't let herself be overshadowed. She knows she has plenty to be proud of, and she takes advantage of opportunities given her, such as prefect, and she does her best. She doesn't lay in the street and let herself confidence and person be torn down by Malfoyic ridicule and wizarding biases. IF ROn is playing second fiddle he purchased the fiddle and music himself. :agree:

I'm sure Ron will grow up in book six, but he does have a ways to go before his hightened maturity level is proven. Ron has already been given the break, but he has yet to "prove" he was deserving. (Not including Quidditch. He has proved he can do that.)

Ron is a good person and so are his friends. They have been equally if not better friends. They all have done things for each other and looked the other way when a friend was behaving less than par.

:) Have a nice day!

[Sirius83]

Nice post tree guardian! :clap:

[gilgalad]

Let's see what Ron did after winning the cup: 1) talked about the game, reliving his victory, 2) ruffled his hair. Now admittedly that is isn't exactly the epitomy of humility, but do we have any reason to think that Harry was better than that after his Quidditch victory, where he was described as glowing over it for a week in book three? And Harry was pretty excited after he did well in his first Quidditch game. I think you're being extremely harsh on Ron for being excited about his first real accomplishment on his own, away from Harry. There is very little that could be construed as being arrogant.


The difference between Ron's action in the aftermath of his quidditch victory in OotP and Harry's in PoA is that Ron was bragging about his victory to everyone that would listen to him while the text in PoA only says "Harry's euphoria (a feeling) at finally winning the Quidditch Cup lasted at least a week" indicating that he was feeling happy about finally winning the cup after three years and the feeling lasted for at least a week. Unlike Ron in OotP, nothing in the text of PoA suggests that Harry was reliving his moment of trimuph by bragging about it to everyone that would listen to him.

Also, can you point me to the text where Harry was excited after he did well in his first quidditch game in PS/SS. I cannot find that in the text. In the first game, Harry first swallowed the snitch. Afterwhich, he coughed it up and shouted that he got the snitch. Harry was quickly wisked to Hagrid's hut with Ron and Hermione and was having a strong cup of tea. The scene then switched to a discussion of Fluffy. (PS/SS scholastic version p.191-193).

[Mutant for Hire]

Harry's childhood was probably on the whole worse, but in some ways it left him with more problems but more easily corrected ones. The fact of the matter is that most of the problems Harry had due to his childhood were more or less fixed by the start of the second book, or at least as well mended as they could be.

Harry doesn't remember the loss of his parents. His childhood was miserable due to his guardians not spending a penny more than they absolutely had to, Dudley and his friends tormenting him and his guardians favoring Dudley, a git who obviously didn't deserve it, with far more than they deserved. Harry had the moral high ground for most of his childhood, even if he had precious little else. He knew it was unfair and undeserved.

After he gets his letter, he gets friends. Hagrid followed by Ron in short order. and then Hermione later on. Ron writes to his own family and he starts getting Christmas presents, and later on at the start of book two, the Weasleys take him in. His poverty was easily corrected. Harry has never had to worry about money and clearly he was worried about going to that other secondary school in Dudley's things dyed gray. Harry doesn't complain about money because he never had to.

Harry never had the issue of being overshadowed in accomplishment by Dudley, except possibly in the area of gaining weight and making friends. When he gets to Hogwarts, he makes friends easily enough, but he never had to deal with anyone overshadowing him. And his lack of popularity before was overcompensated by his celebrity. And he gets a chance to play Quidditch and manage some individual accomplishment, without anyone comparing him to a brother who went on before him.

In the early books, a lot of the problems of Harry's life if not perfectly mended are mostly mended. He's got a surrogate family with the Weasleys, he's not worried about friends anymore, or money. It's not a perfect healing experience, but Harry doesn't expect much.

Now as for Ron. Ron's childhood was better in some ways and worse in others. Yes, he had loving parents. He also had Fred and George Weasley to deal with. And remember the younger they were the less mature they were. Remember how Ron got his phobia of spiders? Frankly, Dudley was unimaginative as a bully.

Then there is how they reacted to the one time he made dog paddling motions trying to block the Quaffle. The only reason they didn't torment him was that it was no fun taking the mickey out of someone that depressed. And when he got the prefect badge they mocked him for that as well. Ron grew up with Fred and George mocking his mistakes and whenever he did something well in any respectable area, they mocked him for that as well.

And there's the fact that his brothers were always more experienced, more skilled than him and anything he managed, they had already done. That was not something that Harry ever had to face. Harry never had to deal with any of his accomplishments being overshadowed by someone doing something better than him. If anything, he did things better than Dudley and he knew it as well. Harry never had to face an older brother who obsessively studied or two older brothers who mocked his mistakes and mocked his accomplishments.

Remember that Ron kept his own attempt to try out for Keeper secret from Harry. Why should he do that from his own best friend? Because he had an irrational fear that Harry would make fun of him for trying to accomplish anything. I think on some level Ron knew it wasn't rational but he couldn't help himself. And he asked Harry to keep it secret from Fred and George, which tell you a lot about his relationship with them. He didn't expect anything remotely like support from them. His first real accomplishment on his own takes place after they've left school.

And to his credit, Ron did make every effort with Harry when he got the prefect badge, and when he had to go to the prefect compartment on the train ride to Hogwarts. Ron may not have handled the position very well on average, but he did as well as he could with respect to Harry.

Ron has a deep rooted problem with accomplishment, but he's finally starting to move forward in that area, Drilling with Ginny over the summer might help drill in that he is not hopeless and he can be talented in one thing. I'm also hoping that he does manage to pull off twelve O.W.L.s, the way that Bill and Percy did. And for those who wish to belittle his academic accomplishments, remember that Harry admits to himself that he doesn't get any better grades than Ron, and we'd all like Hary to do well himself. Fred and George won't be around to make fun of him at school, and Malfoy can't taunt him the way that he used to.

I'm changing my position to think that the battle with his insecurities is going to be a bit slower. And in fact this summer he might even be more depressed that people actually expect things out of him now that he's proven himself, but with the support of those around him I expect him to really gain in self-esteem over the course of book six. But he did make a breakthrough with winning the Quidditch Cup and now he is moving foward at last.

[Elric]

As I said in my original post, I think OOTP was a good starting point for Ron, and we'll have to wait for books 6 & 7 to see how he progresses. Remember he's now the eldest Weasley at Hogwarts, it may be interesting if Ginny tries to assume some of Fred & George's mantle of mischief maker extraordinaire to see how Ron handles it.

I think that we may be overplaying the Ron's had a rough life card. Yes he's had successful older brothers, and yes Fred & George picked on him to an extent. By the way I don't see any evidence that this was a concerted, malicious campaign by the twins against Ron, as I don't believe that F&G have that kind of character, and as soon as Molly had caught hint of anything she'd have dropped on them like a ton of bricks.

I also don't think that Ron was overlooked generally by the family. As soon as he was made prefect Molly was delighted, and even Percy congratulated him, so there doesn't seem to be a culture of whatever Ron does it's never good enough. I got the impression that it was the twins who were always being lectured about not measuring up to the achievements of Charlie, Bill & Percy.

In short Ron has only suffered to the extent that he's one of the youngest in a family where his elder siblings have been successful. I'm sure if Harry had the chance to have no greater worries than that of measuring up to his older brothers, he'd count himself lucky indeed.

[tree guardian]

I think that we may be overplaying the Ron's had a rough life card. Yes he's had successful older brothers, and yes Fred & George picked on him to an extent. By the way I don't see any evidence that this was a concerted, malicious campaign by the twins against Ron, as I don't believe that F&G have that kind of character, and as soon as Molly had caught hint of anything she'd have dropped on them like a ton of bricks.

I also don't think that Ron was overlooked generally by the family. As soon as he was made prefect Molly was delighted, and even Percy congratulated him, so there doesn't seem to be a culture of whatever Ron does it's never good enough. I got the impression that it was the twins who were always being lectured about not measuring up to the achievements of Charlie, Bill & Percy.

In short Ron has only suffered to the extent that he's one of the youngest in a family where his elder siblings have been successful. I'm sure if Harry had the chance to have no greater worries than that of measuring up to his older brothers, he'd count himself lucky indeed.

Well said. :)

Ron's childhood was better in some ways and worse in others. Yes, he had loving parents. He also had Fred and George Weasley to deal with. And remember the younger they were the less mature they were. Remember how Ron got his phobia of spiders? Frankly, Dudley was unimaginative as a bully.

Then there is how they reacted to the one time he made dog paddling motions trying to block the Quaffle. The only reason they didn't torment him was that it was no fun taking the mickey out of someone that depressed. And when he got the prefect badge they mocked him for that as well. Ron grew up with Fred and George mocking his mistakes and whenever he did something well in any respectable area, they mocked him for that as well.

I did certainly get the feeling that Fred and George must have been awful to Ron as a kid. But Ron has let this cripple him?

And there's the fact that his brothers were always more experienced, more skilled than him and anything he managed, they had already done. That was not something that Harry ever had to face. Harry never had to deal with any of his accomplishments being overshadowed by someone doing something better than him. If anything, he did things better than Dudley and he knew it as well. Harry never had to face an older brother who obsessively studied or two older brothers who mocked his mistakes and mocked his accomplishments.

Ron's brothers were older than him. They had more experience because they were sent to school first due to age. There is nothing spectacularly different about Charlie and Bill or Percy at Hogwarts in comparison to Ron except they did well in school and played some Quidditch. They found their niche and did well at it. They all had the same opportunity to succeed as Ron does. Ron at least knows ahead of time the things he can accomplish, as he has had tons of role models. But Ron skives off his homework, doesn't study or take notes, doesn't read, and for 4 years he never tried to try out for the Quidditch team, and he was handed a leadership position, as prefect, and does a shabby job. If Ron feels that he has nothing to be proud of who can he blame beside himself?

However, Ron has plenty to be proud of.

Remember that Ron kept his own attempt to try out for Keeper secret from Harry. Why should he do that from his own best friend? Because he had an irrational fear that Harry would make fun of him for trying to accomplish anything. I think on some level Ron knew it wasn't rational but he couldn't help himself. And he asked Harry to keep it secret from Fred and George, which tell you a lot about his relationship with them. He didn't expect anything remotely like support from them. His first real accomplishment on his own takes place after they've left school.

True, but like you said it was irrational fear.


Ron has a deep rooted problem with accomplishment, but he's finally starting to move forward in that area, Drilling with Ginny over the summer might help drill in that he is not hopeless and he can be talented in one thing. I'm also hoping that he does manage to pull off twelve O.W.L.s, the way that Bill and Percy did. And for those who wish to belittle his academic accomplishments, remember that Harry admits to himself that he doesn't get any better grades than Ron, and we'd all like Hary to do well himself. Fred and George won't be around to make fun of him at school, and Malfoy can't taunt him the way that he used to.

Ron has never failed at anything he has really tried to accomplish that we know of. Ron feels burden to make accomplishments, but we never really knows what he wants to accomplish. Being a prefect doesn't seem to have been a goal of Ron's but just some position he wouldn't mind getting because it is a honor and it would please his parents as well as make him a good comparison to his older brothers.

Ron is already good at Quidditch and I think his confidence in that area is sealed.

:)

And I really think that Harry and Ron's childhoods are uncomparable.

[humongoratdropping]

hooray for Mutant for Hire!! You always make excellent points and really good, thorough posts....

I agree with you completely in the long run. However, in the short term, once Ron gets a little bit more confident than is healthy; I think he will be slightly egotistical for a while. Hermione will be a bit pissed about this, but eventually all will be well once Ron deflates his head a little. King Weasely. I think your original view was more accurate. Harry will probably look at him in disgust and remember his dad, there will be a row, and I think Ron will deflate his head a little. Maybe Ginny will be moderator, who knows....
Either that, or Hermione is going to be the one with the needle to puncture his nice ego...
Now, wasn't there a quote somewhere that went:
"Egotism is the anasthetic that dulls the pain of stupidity."
Just can't remember who said it.
Anyway, great posts, Mutant for Hire. Your threads are always interesting.

[Mutant for Hire]

Remember that during book two, Fred and George practically drove Ginny into hysterics with their practical jokes until Percy threatened to write home to their mother about giving Ginny nightmares. The twins have a very rough sense of humor and I don't think they're always aware of the damage that they're doing in the process.

[wahsup86]

No they don't, they have gone too far many times with their jokes (remember they tried testing out there candies on the first years?). And thanks for defending my position on Ron had a more difficult life in a different sense post, Mutant For Hire.

[FlyingPhoenix]

If we wanna see how Ron will be in book6 we need to look back. I do it now and look at his background. Its like that Ron is one of the last childs of a big family. He grow up with a big shadow about his life. Everything he will do someone has already done. By the first orportunity to escape this shadows he runs in another even bigger shadow with the name Harry Potter. If you thought it can't come worst you are wrong. I mean Ron could in his friendship with Harry be the smart one but no at Halloween the last member of the trio comes in and guess what? She take this possition. Again another shadow about Rons life.

Its not only that his life has everywhere shadows its even that he isn't rich and born in a proudly family. This make it worst for Ron. Now Ron have to accept that he never will be in something the first or the best its looks at this time like that. We know his deepest desire which say he seeks to be rich and famous.

Now there comes the problem its Ron choice to be that. Its his own will to be overshadowed and to be second choice. He want this. Now you say thats not true. Lets look at it. Isn't it true that nobody on this planet will do something first? But still Ron do as if its only his problem because the shadow of his brothers are to big.

He don't want be smart, dos he? But why want he be prefect in the first place? Its because he starts to jump out of the shadow of someone. To be exactly Ron dos nothing to change this that he is overshadowed. That say he want it because if you steps out you have to stand up. Look at his brothers. Percy he gos his own way even we don't like it. He dos since the first day in PS/SS at Hogwarts. He is different smart and gos his way even it means the Twins and Ron laugh about him. He do it anyway. Or Bill he runs around how he want it even his mother don't like it. The Twins do decide self what they want. They don't work hard for great NEWTs. They rebell against they mother. They go there own way no matter what.

But what is with Ron? Dos he this? No. All what he dos is to agree and to be someone who gos the easy way. His brothers choice the right, they own right way. Thats Rons problem and that you see in OotP more as clear that he don't stand up, that he don't say his opinion. To be exactly he make it in book5 worst as it ever was. On the one side he greatly dislike to be overshadowed and on the other side he like it because its so much easier for him. But this anger to be overshadowed will come back.

Thats why I don't see that he will solve any problems for Hermione if he didn't even solve his own problems thats kinda stupid to do. He can't judge her if he who has always choice the easy way critisim her because she choice the right way, her own right way.

In book6 Ron have to face his own issuse and I do expect that to this he need a major fight with Harry. He need such a fight with both of his friends because in Ron is still this anger. Still that he don't know how he can step out of this shadows which are so comfortable. He did in OotP some steps around this issuse but still didn't change it.

He is now a keeper and if Harry comes back into the team Ron has to face for real this shadow and there might start what keeps unsolved in GoF. Its like a cloud over this friendship what need to be solved for Ron. He need to get some pressure. That what he had in GoF wasn't enough. In GoF he had still Hermione who understood him. But in book6 will he be alone and he need this. In book6 need to be sloved all this issuse before in book7 comes to the showdown.

Ron didn't solve his issuse till now but he have to face them in book6. Thats how I see Ron. Some people did dislike Ron in book4 I do expect that Ron will have another fall out in book6. This one because he need to solve his own issuse.

[jasper]

Sigh. I thought I was going to be able to jump into this thread. But I must admit to myself that I am not doing the high level of analysis that's going on here. Isn't it great that JKR writes characters with enough depth that they can be debated this way? Ron is certainly beyond one dimensional.

Here's my low level analysis. Ron did not start out as a sidekick, he started as a "guide" to the wizarding world. This role in his friendship with Harry works for him through book 2, but eventually Harry gets enough knowledge of the wizard world that he know more about some things than Ron. Now Ron slips into the sidekick role, which is not a good place for him (because of being the little brother his whole life), and he starts to struggle with his relationship with Harry. He got over the jealousy thing, and managed to play the role of support/sidekick well enough. And in OotP, he's separated from Harry half the time, so he has to have a role that's not defined by his relatoinship to Harry.

Going forward, I predict that Harry gets bitter about Ron. Things are working out for Ron and getting tougher for Harry. Ron's role in his relationship with Harry will be to keep him on track and not let him go off the deep end under all his burdens. This is not going to be easy because Harry will be shutting him out.

Now, about the Ron Herione thing. Hermione is just waiting for Ron to get a clue. When he does, I would think it won't even be much of a story line. They can come to a mutual understanding without Ron going through nerves and angst about it- just as soon as he gets a clue. The thing is, it will make Harry jealous. That's where the story is with that.

[danfan89]

I like the opinion on how it's Harry Potter and the...And not Ron and the...Ron is the sidekick, whether he likes it or not, but its clear that he's been branching out to develop himself. He still has the same old traits like getting mad about Victor Krum, but he also has new confidence after quidditch, and he's able to stand on his own more and fight.

Think of the department of mysteries. Harry separated from Ron, but this time both had to fight instead of Ron hanging back and keeping others safe. We did also notice the lack of maturity, how he let his curiosity get the best of him and touched the brains. That's where we separate main, and secondary character.

He's still developing, but Harry will always be the best one for the job, so to speak, and they will all grow together as a group.

[murgs]

Has anyone thought about the following?

Ron felt reallly bad about his performance in quidditch. He knew he was letting his house down through his own fault and he struggled to overcome his failures. When Ron actually succeeded he was amazed. In talking to people about it maybe he was "replaying" the event in an attempt to

1. reconfirm to himself that it actually happened
2. reinforce for himself the lesson of what it takes to win
3. make up to his housemates in a way, by letting them know (in not so many words) he now understands the kinds of risks it takes to win, and they can now rely on him to do better.

Ron is a person of good character. Like all of us, he has his weaknesses, but he has exhibited his strengths over and over and over again.

Has anyone else considered that the reason he hasn't asked Hermione out is because she's with Krum and he won't ask her until he knows they're "on the outs"? - Why? Because he doesn't want another guy's girl, because he knows Hermione likes Krum. (and like it or not he really believes people have the right to do what they want) Because he's a "one-woman" guy. Look at how appalled he is at Ginny going through all those guys. In Ron's mind, Ginny and Harry should be together and that's it.

What makes a good person is not the outer trappings of whether they make prefect or not or whether they have good breaks or bad. It's what they do with the life they're presented with. Granted, Ron hasn't been very assertive about pursuing his dreams, but maybe he wasn't sure if they were what he really wanted. He's a very thoughtful person, and although JKR constantly has him spouting off in some kind of rigid diatribe about one thing or the other, Ron's usually the one who is the most flexible, and the most sensitive to other people's feelings, and the most likely to let people do what they want.

As for his role as prefect - Leadership is not always about precisely following rules. The best leaders teach people how to behave by teaching them to think for themselves.

Ron is more than a sidekick. He's a resource for Harry. A window to learn what it's like to have a present, loving family; what it's like to be a member of an established society; what it's like to be a guy who doesn't have all of the situational problems Harry does have. Ron is as vital part of Harry's maturity, as Harry is a vital part of Ron's maturity. It's an important alliance that will make good men of both of them.

One of the brilliant things about JKR's writing is that she shows people learning from their mistakes. Harry's a pig through the early part of V, but Ron doesn't turn away from him. He gives Harry the space, and the respectful remonstrance he needs to put himself back on the right track.

While Ginny and Hermione seem to be the ones telling Harry to straighten up, it's Ron that provides the forum. (guys don't like to be corrected by other guys, that's why they let women do it) And Ron never lets the girls go too far. When a real take charge situation arises, it's Ron that diffuses the fight with Seamus in the dorm. He may joke about it, but he knows when to pull the prefect card.

As far as what's going to happen- yes Ron will mess up in the next books. Yes he'll learn from it because that, more than any other lesson in the series, is the strongest. "People aren't perfect. They do really really dumb things. And if they're good people, they own up to their mistakes, do what they can about correcting them, and go on to make better choices in the future.

[v@sh]

And there's the fact that his brothers were always more experienced, more skilled than him and anything he managed, they had already done. That was not something that Harry ever had to face. Harry never had to deal with any of his accomplishments being overshadowed by someone doing something better than him. If anything, he did things better than Dudley and he knew it as well. Harry never had to face an older brother who obsessively studied or two older brothers who mocked his mistakes and mocked his accomplishments.


Ron did have older brothers to contend with, not just George and Fred but Percy and Bill. They all have greater experience than Ron in different areas, and mocked Ron because of his mistakes and accomplishments because they are all talented in different areas as well. But Ron is himself to blame to be being mocked for his mistakes and accomplishments because he doesn't have the self-esteem and confidence to rise above this. If he overcame that and started saving goals in Quidditch then it would be quite the reverse from his brothers, that of praise and not mockery.

It is unrealistic to say that because Harry have never faced a brother that mocked his achievements and such because Harry himself is a different person and would probably react differently. I think, however, if Harry did have brothers he would do what Ron doesn't do i.e. overcome the confidence barrier and prove himself. We have already seen that Harry wants to prove himself to the wizarding world that he has accomplished something by himself rather just based on his name and he has done that. It is also known that when Harry concentrates on something he can do it. This is the difference between Ron and Harry in terms of abilities in some areas of magical ability and talent. Ron can definately be a great keeper as seen in OOTP where Harry mentions that Ron isn't bad.

Also while Harry may have not any older brothers to make a mockery of him, I think it is even worst to have family to make a mockery of you rather than your siblings. Siblings, like Fred and George they mock Ron, they most certainly do, though they way they go about mocking Ron is more on a fun level by cracking jokes. They don't purposely try to put Ron down whereas Harry's uncle, aunt and cousin do so. This is much far worst than what Ron has to do with. Ron can easily just wave off his brother's mocking jokes towards him but due to his character's personality he doesn't. Harry is dealing it as it is, the only way you could probably do so. Would you rather be a called a freak by your own family who actually mean it or told by your brothers that your **** at a sport that everyone cares about?

I find it unbelievable that others say that Ron deserves better and should receive some recognition rather than staying behind Harry's shadow. The fact he made friends with Harry in PS was already a step in that direction, it was based on what Ron did the following years in which he would of stepped out of Harry's shadow or not and this is becoming more apparent in OOTP. Hermione, on the other hand, is different. She is a girl (not being sexist here or anything so I apologise in advance if I offend anyone) and does not have the competitiveness that guys normally do (she does have competitiveness in her studies though :) ) and rather has her own reputation because of her abilities in the academic area. Also the fact that she does not do the same things as Harry it is hard to compare her to him. We already know that she is superior to both Ron and Harry in the studies department but I doubt that many people in the wizarding world really care about this too much rather than something more extravagent and meaningful to them.

Ron, I believe, has basically got all the things Harry has and more. Yes Harry is more financially secure than Ron, but that is not Harry's fault that he has more money than Ron. He is much worst off than Ron when he lives with his muggle family, but it is only when in the wizarding world that he can spend and has more finance. Ron has the love of a great family, whether rich or poor, this doesn't matter but the fact is that all the Weasleys are caring for their own family. Ron has something Harry doesn't and that is the proper love of a caring family. Yes Harry is lets say inducted into the Weasley family as one of their own, that is true he is treated how he should be treated by his aunt and uncle. However, it will never be the same to having proper parents or figures that have some direct connection (on a more blood line basis) to him as a form of parental love.

Ron also deserves part of what Harry has seen in the mirror, he got a place of the quidditch team and got prefect for his 5th year. Both steps towards his chosen ambitions of becoming quidditch captain and head boy. And what did Harry get? Nothing. Zilch. Rather he had something taken away from him which could of delivered what he wanted from what he saw in the mirror. Some may say that he already got what in saw in the mirror because Sirius was in OOTP, but there wasn't much time to spend together as a godfather figure because of the circumstances in which events happen so Harry really hasn't had an opportunity to fufill what he desires in the mirror.

When I think you look further in about Harry's life in comparison to Ron's, Harry is much worst off than Ron. The majority of Harry's life is based on what Harry cannot control but rather what is forced i.e. living and treatment of his aunt and uncle, being famous and well known (which he does not like), financial stability from his parents and then theres the smaller things in which he can control i.e. his ability on the quidditch pitch, academic studies etc. Harry has dealt things much better than Ron and has had much more greater things to deal with. Ron can control basically most of the things in his life, yes he does have his brothers to live up to, but that doesn't necessarily he has to fulfill up to their accomplishments. Ron can simply forget about it and go his own way, but his self-esteem, confidence and personality create the way he is and as such a major part of the way he is. This can all change of course as the books go by and is already becoming to come true especially I think now that the Weasley twins have left Hogwarts. As mentioned in the above posts with Ron and Hermione involved in the DoM duel (though Ron was loony most of the time) they have a better understanding of Harry's situtation and I think this will dawn on Ron and see what kind of life Harry has had to deal with, and even more so if Harry reveals the prophecy. That is where Ron will begin to mature IMO and overcome the jealously he had of Harry and his posessions, fame etc.

Ron is an excellent character, but the majority of what has happened to him is his decisions, likewise Harry and all the other characters and ourselves. That is a main theme in the book, decisions & choices. What was the line DD used in the books? It is not who we are that determines how we are judged, but it is the decisons and choices we make that decide whom we become. This is exactly an example of the different choices that Ron, Harry, and Hermione have made in their lives to become what they are now. It could of being heaps different, but that is the fact IMO of how Ron chose to live his life i.e. try and live up and surpass his brothers achievements and abilities. IMO he has already done some of it just in different ways.

Anyway I'm not bashing Ron here in anyway. He is a great character but does not hold the importance of the same stature as Harry. He is a lead character and has many reasons to why he is playing a 'second fiddle' to Harry. He is also there for comic relief, but most important is that he is one of the many support bases for Harry and being one of the most significant ones this in itself IMO is significant enough than Ron being Harry's sidekick.

[Cish_hp92]

Good post,murgs. and excellent thread, mutant for hire:)

Quote:
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Yes Harry has had a miserable life, no parents, Sirius gone, and living with the Dursleys. But while Harry does to some extent fill this role, Ron has been doing it for five books in a different sense. He is poor, over-shadowed, and has low confidence. He constantly complains about being poor because he can't find another way of dealing with it.

I disagree to some extent. Although Ron is my fav. character in HP books, (dunno why, i find him really loveable), I'm not being biased here. Harry and Ron's problems are, as mentioned earlier, INCOMPARABLE. You can't compare the absence of parents and parental love from one's life for 10 years to inferiority complexes. And now, with Sirius gone :sniff: Harry has even more pressing matters to deal with. He has to cope with the loss of not having a parental figure for themajor part of his life. And look how the Dursleys treated him - like filth. Hand me down oversize clothes, constant bullying by Dudley and his gang - still, he got through it all through sheer faith and optimism. And when he ends up at Hogwarts, look what he does - in a whole new world, he gets the better out of the most feared dark wizard ever 5 times, becomes Seeker, gets the fame, recognition, etc. that he never asked for.

ALL THIS GIVES HIM A SLIGHTLY LARGER THAN LIFE IMAGE, WHEREAS RON IS A VERY REALISTIC CHARACTER, ONE WE CAN MORE EASILY RELATE TO.

Ron's ego, if unnaturally bottled up for many years, can be unhealthy for him. That is why he needs to get out and carve his niche in the wizarding world. True, he has not been very gracious to what he has been given, compared to Harry(who has), but look here. We are,after all, talking about Ron Weasely - best friend of The Boy Who Lived, younger brother of GenNow magical mischief-makers Gred and Forge Weasely, younger brother of Gringotts employee Bill Weasely, younger brother of dragon-keeper Charlie Weasely, younger brother to the secretary of the Minister For Magic, Percy Weasely, et all. WHERE IS RON WEASELY HERE? He seems to be lost - Where is his own identity. Hence IMHO JKR made Ron keeper and PRefect - to show that if he TRIES, if he BELIEVES in himself, he can do wonders....this is the reason why i believe thatRon will have a huge boost of self-esteem in future books. True, this is HARRY POTTER and the....., not RON WEASELY and the.,.....but character development has always been a major theme in the HP books and I don't think this will change. Ron HAS to be potrayed slightly differently. Though he takes responsibility lightly, doesn't do a good job of being prefect, gets slightly arrogant at winning theQuidditch Cup - it is essential if his character has to develop further. These flaws must be brought into light if they are to be corrected further. JKR puts quite a lot of emphasis on Ron's character development, or rather, lack of maturity - and if she puts emphasis on something, it will definately play up in later books.

thats my2 cents:)

Ohand yes, RON AND HERMY ALL THE WAY!!! to hell with viktor krum!go to Durmstrang

[Siriusly_Addicted]

I think each of the trio has a basic lesson to learn before they make a major step forward on the road to maturity, and it is a different lesson for each. In each case, I think the character need to learn something another character already knows. It's this difference in strengths and weakness that offset each other and make the trio stronger than the individuals would be. Since this thread is about Ron, I'll focus on him. This is NOT to say that Ron is the only one who needs to change, but Harry and Hermione are not the subjects of this thread and I want to stay on topic as much as possible.

Ron is a good person, but he has, as so many people have mentioned, lacked self-confidence up to now. The Quidditch may help his situation a bit, but it will not actually solve much. He has strong values, I think, but he (unwittingly) sometimes values the wrong things, and he needs to realize that. Ron needs to learn what Harry already knows: his wealth is in his family and friends, not in the contents of a Gringotts vault. Ron tends to take his family for granted, entirely unintentionally IMO, because they've always been there. Yes, they have the normal family quarrels, but the family dynamic was solid and unthreatened until OotP (the attack on Mr. Weasley and the estrangement with Percy). Because Ron has his family, he tends to focus on what he doesn't have: money. Harry would cheerfully give up his money, his Firebolt, and everything else he owns to have his parents and Sirius back. Ron still doesn't fully comprehend this, I think. Worse, I don't think he'll really get it until a Weasley dies.

As for the others, Hermione is a good person with a good heart, and she means well. Her problem is that she has sympathy for others, but she's low on empathy. She can analyze other peoples actions and work out how they may be feeling (Cho), but she sometimes has trouble understanding their hearts and minds. She also doesn't realize that there isn't always ONE answer to a problem. I think she'll have a setback with S.P.E.W. to show her that there are other ways to tackle an issue.

Harry has done some "life isn't fair" moping, especially in OotP, but I think Harry's real problem is that he has trouble accepting the fact that he cannot save everyone, and he will be more conflicted now that he knows that's exactly what he must try to do (the Prophecy). Many of his "heroics" have been driven by his emotions at the moment of action: going after Ginny in CoS, going after Ron and Sirius in PoA, his promise to Cedric and his duel with LV in GoF, his rush to the Ministry in OotP. He didn't stop to think it out and go for help (to be fair, he couldn't in GoF), he just dove in and tried to save whoever was in trouble. I suspect this was a lesson Dumbledore had to learn in his youth, and I think Harry got his first real slap from reality with Sirius' demise. If Harry had just stopped to think at some point along the way, things might have been different.

[morgan le fay]

awesome post, Siriusly Addicted :clap: ! you sum up pretty much exactly how i feel about ron

I think each of the trio has a basic lesson to learn before they make a major step forward on the road to maturity, and it is a different lesson for each. In each case, I think the character need to learn something another character already knows. It's this difference in strengths and weakness that offset each other and make the trio stronger than the individuals would be. Since this thread is about Ron, I'll focus on him. This is NOT to say that Ron is the only one who needs to change, but Harry and Hermione are not the subjects of this thread and I want to stay on topic as much as possible.

Ron is a good person, but he has, as so many people have mentioned, lacked self-confidence up to now. The Quidditch may help his situation a bit, but it will not actually solve much. He has strong values, I think, but he (unwittingly) sometimes values the wrong things, and he needs to realize that. Ron needs to learn what Harry already knows: his wealth is in his family and friends, not in the contents of a Gringotts vault. Ron tends to take his family for granted, entirely unintentionally IMO, because they've always been there. Yes, they have the normal family quarrels, but the family dynamic was solid and unthreatened until OotP (the attack on Mr. Weasley and the estrangement with Percy). Because Ron has his family, he tends to focus on what he doesn't have: money. Harry would cheerfully give up his money, his Firebolt, and everything else he owns to have his parents and Sirius back. Ron still doesn't fully comprehend this, I think. Worse, I don't think he'll really get it until a Weasley dies.

...

i agree. ron i think will lose a family member in the next book (really, its quite likely. there are NINE weasleys and only so many pivotal characters. the odds are against them) and i am really not sure if he will react to it in the way that you described and how i hope he will. i hope if someone dies from his family, he WILL learn that he takes his fam for granted and that money isnt everything. unfortunately, ron tends to act rashly and sometimes acts rather quickly and without thinking. so if someone dies, i dont want to see him go nuts and do something irrational too fast. :shrug:

on a somewhat different note, i think it would be sort of helpful if ron began and ended his first dating-type relationship. he might learn how to be more careful about what he says and does and also may learn a major lesson that both ron and harry could tackle: patience. :agree:

[Laufa]

In the first book, we learn how hard Ron finds it being the youngest, and no matter what he does, it's either not as good as *insert older brother here* or equal. He has to work very hard to be acknowledged, and then he becomes best friend with world famous world saver Harry Potter. Well, obviously he doesn't get the limelight there, but he loves Harry despite that, and has only once let that get in the way of their friendship.
His other best friend is also famous throughout school, for being the smartest witch there. Ron has only average grades (the same as Harry, we can except from OotP). What is Ron known for? His red hair. People realizr who he is because of his hair-colour.
He has been bullied by the Twins probably all his life. We can only assume that much, since it is because of them he has a phobia of spiders, it was because of them he didn't do all his stuff as a prefect, it was because of them leaving he finally got confidence, Fred even burnt a hole through his tounge (heehee).

Then, finally, in the 5th book, he becomes Prefect. Not famous Harry Potter, but him, normal Ron Weasley. Immiediatly, the Twins start harrassing him. Making his victory seem something to be ashamed of.
Then, woohoo, he gets a place on the Quidditch team. He can play fairly well, but is so afraid of others reactions he hides it from everyone - even his best friend - that he wants to make the team. Who would belive Ron Weasley could make the team? He's no Charlie. He never will be.
Obviously, Ron starts roughly. The Slytherins always present to taunt him, he loses his barely-there confidence, and is very nervous for the first match of the season. Well, Weasley is our King was first sung there, and I don't think I have to state the consequences. The second game is equalant disaster.
Finally, they win a game. And they win the game thanks to him. And because they won the game thanks to him, they win the cup. And because they won the game and cup thanks to him, he feels very happy. It wasn't Harry who saved him now. He feels very good about this, and talks about the game.
Harry and Hermione do not object to this. They thought it was harsh to bring so shockingly back to reality, but sooner or later, they have to do it.
Ron's reaction?
Well, first his hair wilts with disapointment that they weren't there to see him. However, he doesn't get mad or angry - just dissapointed.
When he hears the full story, not another word about the game is uttered and he understands that they missed the game because of that reason.
How does that show arrogance?

While reading OotP, I thought to myself that PoA was the book where Hermione grew up, GoF was Ron's chance of growing up and in OotP, Harry grew up.

Ron isn't immature, he has a lousy sense of humour that has though yet not failed to crack me up. He wants to try the Firewhisky, and seeing that he is 15 that is understandable.
He is poor. He feels bad about being poor, yet he doesn't talk about it very often. However, as soon he mentions it, he is feeling too sorry for himself, being conceited etc.

Harry felt sorry for himself, letting that anger out on Ron and Hermione, because they couldn't communicate with him like he wanted them to.
They did their best.
Yet, Harry's temper is accepted with "Well, he was just being a teenager!"

Love,
Eyrún

[lemondrop]

I posted this in the book 6 facts but it seems like it goes better here.

I noticed that March 1st is Ron's birthday. So I think that means the Ron will be turning 17 in March during book 6. Maybe he will take his apparation test over Easter break? (Harry born July 31, 1980; Ron born March 1, 1980)

[Discordia]

Then there is Draco Malfoy, who used to torment him about his family's poverty, his father being a low ranking member of the Ministry ridiculed by his peers, and how Draco's own dad was well connected and mixing with high members of the Ministry. And this last year, Ron's poor Quidditch skills. All Draco has over Ron now is money, and Ron can easily retort that he'd rather have his father a low ranking member of the Ministry than a prisoner in Azkaban. And Draco is in no position to talk about whose dad is a disgrace to the wizarding community.

lol! So true. Draco can no longer make any real cracks about Ron unless he wants to risk getting a bite taken out his ego also. Draco's reign as prince of Hogwarts is over.

About Ron's maturity he is 15. Compared to James at 15 he doesn't even come close to seeming immature. Look at Fred and George. They are the most rambuntious pranksters around yet everyone calls them funny. Ron wasn't acting with maturity but he hasn't been as bad as others that's all I'm saying. It all depends on what you consider to be immature.

Yes, we know the title is "Harry Potter and the..." not "Ron and the..." but there are several threads that discuss the characters of the people in the books and this thread is just focusing one one character in particular. The books may be focused on Harry but Ron is his best friend and he is important and there has been some focus on his development in the books which may or may not affect his friendship with Harry and his own future.

[ravenclaw02]

Cheers to Mutant for creating such an interesting thread, and to everyone who's posted in here, there's some really thought-provoking stuff going on. Ron is one of my favorite characters, and I do think that he has a much more important function than just "Harry's sidekick." I think that we've seen him grow a lot from the course of PS/SS to OOTP, and I do agree that OOTP was sort of Ron's "turning point", and that we can expect much more from him in Books 6 & 7. We see Ron's emerging confidence in both his Quidditch abilities and his scholastic skills, and he has often been crucial in the fight against LV. I look forward to Ron's emergence in the final two books!

[murgs]

I tend to disagree with all of you in a way. Ron has shown consistant character throughout the books. Here's how:

No matter how hard he might try to underplay things, Ron always lets us know exactly what he's feeling - Even if it's not so nice. He doesn't/can't hide what he thinks. Contrary to what people may think, it takes alot of courage to live your life this way because you risk losing people with every interaction. Ron respects people enough to let them know what he's about so they can walk away if they don't like him.

He also respects other people's freedom to make choices. If you look closely you'll notice that Hermione is usually trying to get people to behave in a proscribed way. She does it to the students and the teachers. Granted, her heart is almost always in the right place, but people do have the right to say, think and act in the way they see fit. Realizing and honoring this fact is the height of maturity. Put bluntly, people don't have to do what you want them to. Where some people think Ron is backing down or not being assertive, he's actually following his own beliefs: that people have a right to decide for themselves. He even does this at the expense of his comfort.

And I think Harry, actually is more self-involved than Ron. (Ron's post-quidditch hair fling nothwithstanding) Not that Harry doesn't have enormous challenges to meet of course. But I do have to ask myself, would Harry support Ron the way Ron supports Harry if the tables were turned?

On a practical level, Ron is probably the best drawn character. His humanity, what he thinks is funny, scary, challenging, admirable and despicable is written so beautifully by JKR that the more archetypal, enigmatic characters like Harry, Hermione & Dumbledore seem "realer" because of Ron's occasional asides about them. I think Ron is us. The readers of the books. Warts and all - some of what we do is brilliant, and some dopey. But that doesn't make us imature, subordinate, or unimportant in life. It just makes us human.

I think, like Mutant for Hire (whose observations I always enjoy) Ron will continue to develop. He will succeed and fail, but his core (even if for some horrific plot point JKR turns him evil) will remain what it is: sensitive, honest, loyal and brave.

[fawkes5]

I think Ron will have his moment in book 6 or 7. He is not the weakest of the three characters.

Ron is a likable sociable guy who knows how things go in the wizarding world and whose significant hang-ups include an insecurity about being poor and a deep desire to distinguish himself like his brothers did. I don't even think he has low self-esteem. I see his abysmal performance as Keeper as a sort of block he had to get past and not as a sign of low self-esteem.

He is a very loyal friend. That loyalty got tried in GoF but in the end he managed to come to terms with his jealousy.

OotP was a book about Harry. Massive character development for Harry. Nothing much about Ron. Not even about how he did his prefect duties (as Hawkwood observed in another thread). I think Ron is going to come into his own in the future books.

[Discordia]

I tend to disagree with all of you in a way. Ron has shown consistant character throughout the books. I agree but I think Ron was always the "stable" one in the group. Despite his own insecuirites he's always had a real family and brothers and he's not afriad to let people see him for himself. Harry's always lived unfer the burden as the boy who lived and Hermione I get the feeling was always one of the studious students who never really let themselves have a life outsoud of school work until she got Hogwarts. Ron'skind of been the only one of the group who knows how to breathe. He allows himself to just live life a little more than Harry or Hermione but he's always had that luxury more so than his friends.

[MnMbabe]

I think Ron will grow up alot in the next book. As Tane said, he will be the oldest Weasley at Hogwarts, which i think will make him step up his performance and will change his outlook on different events. He will also have to watch out for Ginny, as Fred and George are no longer there to keep tabs on them. Quidditch will put more responisbility on his part, and may lead to his judgement of what is more important; School, or quidditch. This is just my guessing, though.:)

[Alci]

I think Ron... He is not the weakest of the three characters.
Hmm..well to quote Blackadder "I'd advise you to make the explanation your are about to give phenominally good"

[angrypenguin]

I do think that Ron will be a bit more mature in the next book, but I don't think it's going to be much more. And despite people saying that Ron was second choice for being made prefect, I disagree. There is more than just one prefect after all. True Hermoine is a stickler for the rules, like Ron, she is also not the perfect prefect. Better in some ways, worse in other ways. I also think that the only reason Ron also wants to become head boy and quidditch captain, is so that he can best his brothers As has been basically stated in book one. Ginny of course is a girl so she won't be compared to the Weaely brothers. I also want to throw this in, but coming from a large family myself, I can see how Ron can have such low self esteem. It takes awhile to get over it, even then it's never completely over, and the only person that can get you out of it is with oneself.Now with that being said. I know it's Harry potter and the......... it dosen't mean that Ron can't have more of a role in the books. As for Ron being the weakest of the trio, I have my suspicions about that, and once I straighten it out in my head, I shall share that theory.

[sirius'swife]

gee am i glad to have found a place where ron isnt considered a waste of space. gosh i have so points to make and so many posts to respond to!
first of all, mutant- i agree with almost everything uve said. except the trio expanding to accomodating the the other three(nev, luna and ginny). i dont think that the trio will expand in the sense that these 6 will go everywhere together and do everything together, the same way the trio have done. nev is always lurking around, luna will be at the ravenclaw table and ginny will be with her boyfriend and 5th year mates. but i do agree that maybe this is the time when harry begins to realize that he has mates outside the circle of ron and hermoine. he has already been intrigued by luna's last words. and ginny seems like she wants to stick around and find out abt stuff. and neville and harry have a strange(dare i say it?) bond that is difficult to explain.
and ron. gawd do i love him or what! ive always thought believed that loyalty is the greatest thing you can offer as a mate- and ron has that in spades. so does hermoine but this isnt abt her is it?
and to comment on sirius83's post- well whoever said that ron was going to morph into a mini-hermoine the moment he got his prefect badge? its hermoine who is a stickler for rules and regulations, hermoine went after the twins cuz she,like molly, is dismissive of their joke-shop idea and also the fact that it is illegal. perhaps ron is more 'free' when it comes to weilding power. maybe he reckons that schools are always making rules and the students are always trying to disobey them. so why go against ur personal belief? he would only pick and chose what rules has to be enforced. and if we know anything, jk(therefore harry) and dumbledore are of the 'rules are meant to be broken' school of thought. and remember when ron stands up for harry during the seamus confrontation? right at the beginning of the book where you would think that ron would still be uncomfortable with his newfound power? but no, he sounds perfectly sure of himself, perfectly at home while weilding his prefectship over seamus as seamus was insulting a fellow gryffindor and by extension, the Head, a man ron trusts immensely.
and the house elves issue. i know its not the thread to do so, but if i can just comment on it- i agree with those who say that the elves dont see they're being enslaved and it is the duty of a wizard/witch to help them see the situation. but i also agree that hermoine has no right to enforce her idea of equality over others. see the elves liberation is a very important issue. but im afraid hermoine isnt being clever abt it(runs for cover). jk herself has said, that hermoine is more carried away with the idea of her leading the elves to glorious realisation and rebellion than she is abt the idea that these elves should be free. i say(like ron i might add) that these elves should be free to decide what they want. and im sure there are many more dobby's out there. hermoine would do well to seek these elves out and encourage them to chose freedom. what she tried to do with the hidden clothes was well stupid and it backfired on her own cause.
and what exactly do you mean by ron's role getting smaller and smaller each time? do you mean his importance? or do u mean that he is occupying smaller and smaller page-space? cuz on both accounts i reckon ur wrong. first of all, ron is the one who accompanies harry to the forest( i know hermoine was petrified then but thats not the point) and goes along with harry to the chamber in the second book. in the third book, he goes with harry as far as he can, until his leg is broken, even then, he stands up and dares a till-then-believed-to-be deranged killer to go through him before getting to harry. and in the fourth book, well he is the thing that harry will miss most and even with the fall-out, their making up is easy and not forced. at that point, it seems harry just needed someone to bring it up so they could go back to being best mates- theirs is a very easy and relaxed mateship. and ron did apologise. need i say that it takes a big man to say sorry, even if he believes that it is entirely his fault. a boy of 14 could be forgiven for clinging to his stubborn pride, no matter how foolish it is.
and what precisely do you mean he's not grateful? do you know he's not grateful? do you know that perhaps he hasnt begun to fervently thank the fact that he is just ron from a normal family, who doesnt have everyone trying to kill him?
and moreover, who is, at their age, grateful? is harry grateful to the fact that he is surrounded by all these wonderful ppl who would die protecting him? is he grateful that he has escaped voldemort so many times? no!
granted that there are things in his life that are more weighty than ron's and he is entitled to a little bitterness but by the same token, it can be argued that everyone is entitled to a little bitterness as noone else can fully comprehend ur experiences and feelings. but i wont. i feel enough's been said.
on to the prefect, i confess i thought harry would get it, not because i think he is anymore prefect material or would have been any better at it than ron(being a natural leader is very different to being a good prefect as ive found out) but because he is the one that dumbledore favours and as the central character, it makes sense that he get it. but on whether ron was the first choice or not, can i just say...what does it matter? first choice or not, ron got it cuz dumbledore reckons ron can handle most curses(moody's words, not mine, and coming from the great ex-auror id say it is high praise indeed)
all in all, i think ron is already a great character. he doesnt need to become anything to be thoroughly important to the story and to harry. he doesnt need anything else to become a willing frontline warrior.
but i hope we will see characters like ron, neville and lupin get their due. get a chance to fully reach their potential.
but of course someone else made that excellent point abt this being Harry Potter books and not Ron Weasley books.....

[CaseyAlthea]

Now, Ron did not live up to expectations. Yes, you heard me.

JKR made it a point to show Ron not living up to expectations. I know some of you are going to say i'm being hard on Ron, but hey - sorry, i'm pulling all of these directly out of the book.

I think what your post has shown, Sirius83, is not Ron's "failure" but the way in which Ron and Hermione BOTH have a lot to learn. Hermione is obsessive, desperate to act like a grown-up, desperate to control others under her charge. She's powerful, she's a mature young lady, and she means well! But, like with the House Elves (who desperately do need to be freed, but through their own efforts and in their own time and in the way they deem right), she thinks she knows what is best for everyone. She's bossy! She does know how people *should* be, but she takes no consideration of how people are, and the bridges one burns when one attempts to control them.

Ron, on the other hand, knows his brothers are breaking rules and feels that it is useless to try to stop them, that they will get around "his" rules, just as they've gotten around Percy and other prefects and the professors of Hogwarts. He sees the situation as hopeless. He's casual with his responsibilities -- indeed too casual, but he balances Hermione, who wants to tell everyone what to do all the time.

Hermione knows what people should do; Ron knows how people are.

It's only Harry (as shown in the DA classes) who knows how to use a position of authority successfully ... without dominating, without slacking off.

I think that's part of the reson why Hr and R are prefects -- they both are learning what it means to be a leader. Harry's already got it down. He's ready for something bigger than Prefect -- he's ready to be a teacher.

PS I think it's cute when Ron calls the first-year's "midgets" -- it's rather affectionate, really.

PPS Murgs, I love your posts. So insightful and articulate!

FINAL EDIT:

I think Ron will suffer from the effects of those brains (more than social circumstances) next year. Has he, like Harry, experienced (if only briefly) what it means to have an alien force invade his thoughts? As I see Ron as a supporter of the individual's right to choose his/her own path, I think this sort of experience might have been especially traumatic for him.

[HermioneLuvsRon]

Ron is growing up. He played Quidditch to find out that he isn't bad at everything. These words are coming out of my mouth and I don't know where they are coming from so stick with me until I'm done. He will find the courage to ask Hermione out, don't they make the cutest couple?? Ron isn't the weakest of the group, but not the strongest either. I'd say that Hermione is the strongest. She holds them together. Harry could be but he has outbursts of anger all the time. Back to Ron...the post is about him. Ron has to discover who he really is and what power he holds inside.


I have a question for you people in England...did you ever try to make those guards that like don't blink laugh?? Hehe, I want to try. It's kind of hard to imagine little kids running around with a British accent. (Sorry, I didn't know where I could put the question.)

[GodricHollow]

sorry if this has been said already but the posts are way too long to pay proper attention to...

With Ron I feel that we'll have another case of the Maruders, in that, like Lupin Ron and Hermione were made Prefects in order to try and keep Harry under wraps. Now that it's Head Boy and Girl time I think that Ron and Hermione will be Head Boy and Girl respectivley, with Cho as Hermione's Deputy (if they have them, I think they do...) and one of the Hufflepuffs as Ron's Deputy (I was thinking of maybe Malfoy but I don't really think so) The idea of this is that Harry has to get used to not having his friends around him so much now, so starts getting really friendly with Neville, and then something happens like normal at the end of the year, (by the time bookx seven comes round it could be in the summer holidays).

The point of Cho being Hermione's Deputy if they have them is that formerly Hermione has been acting really jealous of her when it comes to Harry, so now that she's her Deputy she'll get to know her better and something may happen there, maybe Cho or Hermione asking Harry out?

Ron being Head Boy may bring Percy back into the story as Percy feels that Ron has grown up and so feels that maybe his mum and dad are right in what they were feeling in book five.

With Hermione going out with Harry (possibly Ron, but not very likely, unless we get a Leila/Solo type thing) What's Krum going to think? He and Hermione have been in contact all the way through five, so maybe he'll side with Voldemort now he's left school and Hermione will see the other side of him.

All of that could put pressure on Ron, as with all of the above he's probably going to get some of the blame for what happened with Fred and George in five, and he's got to look out for Ginny, being her older brother and that. So maybe, as Voldemort can't really attack Harry, maybe Voldemort will go for someone such as Ron, Neville, Cho or Hermione and all of these bonds that have been made will decide it all. (And it also links in with what the Hat said about making friendships between houses.)

[Katarzyna]

What a fascinating thread--excellent posts all around, and definitely worth reading.

Now that it's Head Boy and Girl time I think that Ron and Hermione will be Head Boy and Girl respectivley, with Cho as Hermione's Deputy
I thought Head Boy and Head Girl were 7th years. The Trio will only be in their 6th year in book 6; Cho will be in her 7th year, and may well be Head Girl. By the time Hermione has the chance to be Head Girl, Cho will already have graduated.

Or am I completely mistaken about the whole Head Girl/Head Boy thing?

I'd also like to add that I think it's dangerous for Ron to base too much of his self-esteem on winning Quiddich. What if he loses the next game, or lets in a bunch of goals and the team relies on Harry's seeker abilities to win Gryffindor the game?

Of course, everyone dislikes losing, but I think the other players (Harry, Ginny, Katie, etc) who feel bad will say something to the effect of, "That was terrible!" Ron, on the other hand, might internalize it into, "I was terrible!", and that may collapse into "I am terrible."

I think Ron's attitude toward being Prefect was similar. He was very proud of the badge and the recognition he received from everyone. But he didn't take it to heart, or change his behaviour. We never saw him change into someone who thought, "Dumbledore made me a prefect, he thinks I can be a leader and a good example; maybe he's right, and I should try to become a leader and a good example."

I think Ron's self esteem has a ways to go, and needs to develop beyond external trappings. Ron needs to feel good about himself for who he is, not for having a shiny badge, or saving x number of goals in a Quiddich match.

[GodricHollow]

very good point there Kat, i've GOT to pay attention to the books more, I was working on the presumtion of Head Boy and Girl being sixth year, and may I just add that Katie left at the end of book five, so it's basically Harry, Ron and Ginny left of the team, (one Keeper, one Chaser potentially and one/two seekers.)

Didn't Ron act like that at book five a\ny way, I remember Bell saying that he was probably the best there but wasn't very good and that he was Harry's mate and that, and then after one match Ron said himself that he was crazy to apply and all the way through the year tries to resign...

[Katarzyna]

very good point there Kat, i've GOT to pay attention to the books more, I was working on the presumtion of Head Boy and Girl being sixth year,
I honestly don't know. It doesn't make sense to me that prefects are picked in their 5th year, the year everyone has to take the OWLs. I don't know if the prefects chosen in 5th year are still prefects in 6th year, or if they lose that title, and become Head Boy/Girl, or what. I'd love to have that cleared up. :)

and may I just add that Katie left at the end of book five,
Do we know that for certain? I thought Ginny only mentioned two seekers were graduating, though I can't find the passage in OotP where she said that, and I'm not sure if Katie or Alicia was mentioned. The HP Lexicon Who's Who (http://www.hp-lexicon.org/wizards/wizards_list.html) lists Angelina, Katie and Alicia as all graduating in 1996, but I'm not sure if they're basing that on solid information.

Clearly, I am spending too much time thinking about Harry Potter. ;)

Didn't Ron act like that at book five a\ny way, I remember Bell saying that he was probably the best there but wasn't very good and that he was Harry's mate and that, and then after one match Ron said himself that he was crazy to apply and all the way through the year tries to resign...
Yes, he did, but his opinion of himself seemed to improve after that final game.

I also want to add that I think it's a good thing to feel good about accomplishments you've worked for. Neville should feel good about working hard and achieving good DADA skills. And if you screw up, it's not wrong to admit that you've screwed up, or to feel bad about it. But basing your self-esteem on your individual performances can be very bad.

And now I'll stop babbling like a wannabe therapist.

[Gwenog Jones]

great thread everyone..



I think Ron's attitude toward being Prefect was similar. He was very proud of the badge and the recognition he received from everyone. But he didn't take it to heart, or change his behaviour. We never saw him change into someone who thought, "Dumbledore made me a prefect, he thinks I can be a leader and a good example; maybe he's right, and I should try to become a leader and a good example."

I think Ron's self esteem has a ways to go, and needs to develop beyond external trappings. Ron needs to feel good about himself for who he is, not for having a shiny badge, or saving x number of goals in a Quiddich match.

I agree with you Kat. In Ron's 5th year, he became a prefect, and a better Quidditch player. Both of these things are enough to inflat a kid's head, but I do not think at any point did Ron become immature about this. Yes, he did talk extensively after his winning Quidditch match, but I do not think he was as immature as James was in his 5th year. I think in the 6th book, Ron will keep his same qualities, but I believe he will become much more confident.

[LuvRed]

I agree with everyone that said Ron will be more confident. However, I do think Ron has more at stake than Harry. Ron comes from a big family that is involved in the Order. He could loose his parents or brothers. Harry lost his parents as a baby. He never knew them. His parents are strangers that he longs for because it is human nature to want a parents' love. Ron has so much emotional connections with his family that if he lost them it would turn his life around by 360 degrees. The conflict with Percy is a tiny rip in their close knit family, and that affected everyone including Harry and Hermione. However, Harry's only ties to his parents are the Dursley's, Lupin, and Sirius. Harry and Ron life experiences to vary in greatly. Ron is very open and gracious to bring Harry into his familly, and give Harry a childhood, and a strong friendship. In many ways, Ron is James and Harry is Sirius. I hope history doesn't repeat itself word-for-word.

[darklordspal]

Hello to one and all,

What an excellent discussion! Good points all around.

It is nice to find a thread that gives some thought to Ron's character as something other than Harry's buddy or Hermoine's possible husband. I think I have grown to like Ron more simply b\c of all the abuse heaped on him by others. Not only does he seem to have low expectations for himself, but many readers (you know who you are) feel the same way about him. I guess I have a soft spot for the under-dog.

I think Ron is the most "real" of the characters in the series. He is a bit of a slacker but doesn't really fit into any strong stereotype the way the other characters do. He is not the angst-ridden Hero like Harry or the driven over-achiever that Hermoine is. He is not the wise grandfatherly figure like DD or the scared-of -his-own-shadow that Neville once was before the battle at the DOM.

What I really like about Ron is that he brings humor and humanity to the series. I think the stories would be quite a dull read without Ron's little side comments about Hermoine's seriousness or his jokes to lighten Harry's mood.

I have to say that this thread spent alot of time discusssing who has the most to complain about-Harry or Ron. I'm sorry, but I don't think the characters are going to deal with the dire situations in the future by dwelling on who has the most miserable life. They certainly didn't seem to be considering that when they worked together in the past...squabbles not withstanding.

The entire trio draw strength from each other...Harry most especially. I don't think Harry or Hermoine see Ron as a weak person and I don't think JKR intended the readers to see him as that. Each of the trio has their flaws, and I don't see that Ron's are any worse.

[Demetri]

I am still strongly believing that Ron will break apart the Trio in this book.

I stand strongly by my theory that him leaving the trio (because of H/Hr reaction breaking up the R/Hr couple..Hermione you SCARlet woman you..) and this becoming a turning point in Harry's life. I think Ron will die with Harry and himself officially fighting and this will haunt him. He will then show compassion to Voldemort and this love (compassion is a far stronger love because it is unconditional) despite the murder of his best friend will cast the final blow.

I think at this point we will learn that magic is strengthened by emotions, and that love is far deeper than hatred though hatred looks flashier in the spells.

I think JKR has been making us think Harry will die but it wont happen in the least because Ron's death and how he will purge himself of hatred to win will become an issue.

[Darby]

I think Ron will suffer from the effects of those brains (more than social circumstances) next year. Has he, like Harry, experienced (if only briefly) what it means to have an alien force invade his thoughts? As I see Ron as a supporter of the individual's right to choose his/her own path, I think this sort of experience might have been especially traumatic for him.

Just finished rereading OotP last night, and I agree with you CaseyAlthea. I think Ron may play a far more important role in the next book due to the influence of the brain and what it has imparted to him. Whether for good or ill remains to be seen (I'm inclined to believe for good). Still, I think the experience will change him greatly.

[minerva_mcG]

Being a Ron-Fan, I am really appreciating this thread. Great arguments everyone!

I agree must with those of you who say that Ron's role as part of the trio, but also as an individual, will evolve and grow in the two final books.

Ron is changing the way every teenager changes, he's (finally!) growing more confident, he finds out what he's good and so on. I find it unsurprising that he has some serious confidence issues. Growing up in a big family like that with older brothers who exceed at everything they do and who are adored by their parents, it must have been hard for him. When he came to Hogwarts and became Harry's friend, he again spend years being (in) his shadow, which is an easy role to assume and one he's very used to.
I can definitely see changes in Ron over the last books. He might not be right in most arguments he has with Hermione, but he seems unafraid to say what he thinks and argue a point (even though he's wrong more often then not...)
Most of the times he takes a backseat and is unafraid to take a stand one or more of his brothers are involved (testing the Skiving Snackboxes anyone?) and that alone says a lot about how he must have felt growing up as the youngest brother, with no great deeds to his name and a younger sister who was probably adored by everyone (being the only girl)
Add to that the Malfoy's taunts and general horrid-ness towards him, about being a Weasley in general and poor in particular, I am not at all surprised at how long it is taking him to finally show what's in him more often.
Oh, and he is a great friend to have, if he is willing to give his life to protect you, especially when Harry knows exactly how scared he really is... I wouldn't follow a trail of spiders through a dark creepy forest for just anyone!!!

[DayVirgo]

I like all this discussion here but I think we all need to remember something about Harry and Ron. Many of you are trying to say one is more hard done by but I think there should not be a comparison of either. Both have their own problems and come from radically different situations. Also, both have their own unique advantages. I think, considering what both Harry and Ron have to deal with, they both come out equal as what they have is stressful for any child.

As for Ron in particular, I think that he has been protrayed as an underdog for far too long. Yes, I agree he was a sort of aid to Harry in the wizarding world, but I think that's he's been in Harry and Hermione's shadows for far too long (I include Hermione as well as she is well known for her intelligence).

I also see great things happening to Ron and that he will embrace them, not shy away. Look at how he reacted when he found out he could be good at quidditch. It could be preceived as being full of himself, but would you said that about the Olympic athlete who worked for 14 years to win a gold metal? Ron works hard for things from time to time.

[mevam]

Ron has been portrayed as being a bumbling idiot in the books, and I really can't see him suited for being anything but the overly jealous somewhat courageous sidekick of Harry's. Ron's problem is not only his lack of confidence, it is also how he tries to boost his ego by playing Quidditch, getting the honour of becoming Prefect, and somewhat stepping out of Harry's shadow. Ron seems to have this illusion that the only way he will develop and like himself is if he wins all these grand honours and awards, and thus Ron is basing his self confidence on what other people think of him, which is not something any strong character does.

In the Mirror of Erised, Ron has a truly selfish wish shown to the readers. Instead of wanting happiness and health for himself and his family, he craves power and status by seeing himself surrounded by Quidditch Cups, Head Boy Badges, School Awards for Special Services and other prizes. Ron is somewhat confused as to how to develop his character, and as OOTP showed us, his path to success is hampered by his own expectations.

When Ron becomes Prefect, he is ecstatic, yet he fails miserably in upholding the basic duties assigned to Prefects. Hermione is a perfect example of someone who is capable of holding a position of power when she acts as a proper Prefect, yet Ron is constantly shunted aside from his duties by worrying what others will think of him if he acts like a Prefect should. Thus, Ron doesn't crave the duties that persons with power have, he just wants the title. Same goes for Ron's position as Quidditch Keeper, although yes, Gryffindor does ultimately scrape the Quidditch Cup, it did so through a series of lucky circumstances that saw the Gryffindor team depending far too much on different teams losing certain matches. Ron's lacklustre playing abilities doomed the Gryffindor team to not relying on their talents, but to rely on pure luck, showcasing to us readers the great incompetance of Ron at holding any position of responsibility.

Ron will never develop as a mature character unless he looks at what niche he needs to fill and what niche he wants to fill. There is a difference, because Ron craving for the titles and power that he saw in the mirror of Erised will not make him a more accomplished individual if once he holds those titles, he fails miserably. For Ron to be a strong personality, he needs to give up trying to upstage his brothers' and sister's shadows and instead grow into his own person, even if that person is not the type to go after crazy honours and prizes.

[FarhanaK]

I would like to disagree with the statement in another thread that Ron is the "normal kid" with no place in the future books, or only a place as Harry's sidekick. I think that the detractors of Ron are completely missing the point as to why Ron was such a distant presence in this book, cut off from the rest of the trio. The fact of the matter was Ron needed time away from Harry for his own growth.

If Harry had not been yanked off the team, then for the rest of the season, Ron would have been depending on Harry to get the Snitch fast enough to cover for Ron's abysmal goalkeeping abilities. With Harry off the team, Ron was forced to develop on his own and get over depending on Harry. It was a long miserable year but in the end he had that one breakthrough, the moment where he thought I can do it and all of a sudden he became an amazing Keeper, to the point where he was a hero to his House despite his abysmal performance the rest of the year.

And for those who comment its only Quidditch, I should point out that a lot of Harry's confidence at the start of the series came out of his finding out he was good at something, Quidditch. He was able to move on from that obviously, but it was a way for Harry to start to grow in confidence. And now Ron has broken through his mental block of despair that was crippling him.

The rest of Ron's life has also come together. With Fred and George out the amount of money for him and Ginny has just doubled. Of course at this point the only thing left for Ron to upgrade is his cauldron, which I don't think ranks nearly as high on the list of things that mattered to him as much as his wand, owl, broomstick and robes. I suspect more of the money will go to Ginny, but the quality of his gear is no longer an issue.

Then there is Draco Malfoy, who used to torment him about his family's poverty, his father being a low ranking member of the Ministry ridiculed by his peers, and how Draco's own dad was well connected and mixing with high members of the Ministry. And this last year, Ron's poor Quidditch skills. All Draco has over Ron now is money, and Ron can easily retort that he'd rather have his father a low ranking member of the Ministry than a prisoner in Azkaban. And Draco is in no position to talk about whose dad is a disgrace to the wizarding community.

In short, Ron's life has come together. Pretty much most of the things that made Ron miserable or insecure about himself have been more or less dealt with. He's still got a few sore spots, but for the most part I think his ego is going to start healing over the summer.

Something to remember is that JKR herself had experiences with poverty, and so I think she wrote something of that into Ron, and just as she has been blessed with riches, I hardly think that she is not going to do something to reward Ron's loyalty and dedication despite all of the handicaps he has struggled with for four years. Ron is certainly the underdog of humble origins, struggling with hardship. I like to think his perserverence will be rewarded.

What Ron's role upcoming is going to be is not clear, but things are changing. The trio has now become a sextet, and so the old dynamic of the trio is going to start shifting as now we have Harry, Ron and Neville, who likewise has had his own breakthrough and is barely going to be recognizable next year (this is the guy who learned a charm faster than everyone but Hermione). There is no reason to assume that Ron is going to continue to be the weak third of the trio the way he has for the last five books.

I do expect Ron to show more of a spine when dealing with Harry and Hermione, and they are going to have to get used to Ron being more assertive. Of course book five is also the book where Ron started to become more of the tiebreaker in the arguments between Harry and Hermione, but with three more people added in, it's not clear if that role is still needed.

Hermione next year is going to learn that she actually was wrong in an argument with Ron the previous year, over SPEW. Ron and Hermione came down on opposite sides, and it wasn't Ron who was wrong about what Hermione was doing. The only reason Hermione's efforts didn't cause trouble that year was because Dobby was covering for her. If that changes, Hermione is going to find out that she really should have been listening to Ron the previous year.

I also suspect this is the year where Ron is going to finally work up the nerve to perform the supreme act of courage and ask Hermione out. How that will go is a matter of much debate. Certainly Ron becoming more self-confident and having greater self-respect and self-esteem isn't going to hurt his chances. I think now that Ron is respecting himself more, other people will respect him more, including Hermione.

People should remember the Harry of book five is not the Harry of book four, who is not the Harry of book three and so on. That Ron has not changed much for five books does not mean that Rowling is not going to have him change in books six and seven. That was one of the lessons of the pensive. So Ron was a bit of an idiot in his fifth year, he wasn't as bad as James Potter, who grew up enough over book sixth to be made Head Boy his seventh. There is every reason to think we're going to see Ron making great progress next book.
I sort of agree...

[PatrickvD]

I think what makes Ron different from Harry and Hermione is the fact that he's always been in the shadow of his brothers. I believe Dumbledore even said so. That is why he might seem immature at times, but it's really his struggle for finding his place as an individual, not just another red haired weasley. His achievement in quidditch in book 5 is in my opinion an example of this. I think along with Harry and Hermione he will become a great wizard... That is, if nothing happens to him. I only just joined this forum and all the clues you posted in one thread that might suggest Rons death freaked me out, he's one of my favourite characters in the books. I'd hate to see that happen. :upset:

[jordmundt6]

Okay Mutant--you make some good points but the biggest mark against you is from your own post--Ron's maturity is "yet to be seen." I will be very happy if we do see it, but it looks like it'll take a Ginny-esque coming out party that Ron just hasn't had yet. Hermione's plan was a good one, her reasons were good--and if she'd thought for a split second longer she would have come up with the perfect excuse "This hag [meaning Umbridge of course] works for the Ministry. She's got the authority to have the Giant removed. We tried to tell her about it but she didn't believe us. So, we decided to show her." Hermione was, at worst, naive because she believed that the centaurs would respect their own laws.

As to the freedom of House Elves--No, Hermione has it right. She's just going about it the wrong way. The core of the house-elf--wizard relationship is brainwashing, conditioning, and domination. Only when the mistreatment is severe enough to break through this conditioning do the house elves consider their own wants, but at their core they want to help and be respected as helpers. True respect for Dobby means freedom. Those who have been treated well for several generations (like the Hogwarts house elves) are perfectly content with a benign despotism because, especially in Dumbledore's hands--it amounts to their freedom. They could have wages if they only asked for them.

Hermione is the one who's taking on the Prefect responsibilities with appropriate commitment and zeal and her ideas produced the most effective and important things that Harry did during his fifth year (form the DA, give the Skeeter interview) and she wasn't above chipping away at her own ideas when she saw the negative side to them. She stood up to Harry in the heat of his rage and panic, trying to make him see the possibility of a Voldemort trap and also continually warning him about Occlumency. He badly needed her influence. It should also be noted that when push came to shove Hermione stood by Harry valiantly and was his most effective ally among the sextet (completely debilitating two of the twelve, Nott and Baby-Head and fighting at Harry's side against another pair). Only Luna even comes close to this, taking on four DEs and getting enough breathing space to get herself and the two Weasleys momentarily out of danger.

As for Ron's ego--It doesn't need healing. It needs shrinking. Hopefully his abysmal performance in the MoM skirmish and his awful advice that contributed to it will chasten him so that he is realistic. I don't want him as ridiculously down on himself as he was when he made a terrible show at Quidditch, but his preening after his one good performance was just as much of an overreaction as his depression over the other two games had been. There is potential but its still buried. Neville did have a breakthrough year and he's not done yet. I have a feeling that with his very own wand, newfound confidence from OWLs and his bravery at the MoM along with his continued sense of purpose, he will be a force to be reckoned with. I agree that Ron does have charm, percpetiveness and a certain straightforward outlook on things that is appealing at times. Unfortunately, the zenith for this type of behavior was back in PS, the only time the Trio behaved as a seamless unit.

[Rita Skeeter]

even though noone probably cares about my opinion [how very moaning myrtle of me .. sorry, its been a long day], i think [hope, as many of my predictions] that ron will stand out more, as he's such a great character .. i mean, harry is this brave, courageous guy and hermione is brilliant, but ron is sort of out there .. i mean, it shows it perfectly well in OotP when ron gets his prefect badge and while what harry thought was cruel, it was partly true .. harry has done more than ron, and so is hermione .. he's just kind of there to be harry's best friend, and is more fun than hermione [GoF] .. so now that we have that covered, as i said before, i think that he will play a bigger role; he no longer has any of his family to over shadow him, now that fred and george are gone [:-(] so he'll probably feel more confident, and perhaps more aware .. I also think that harry is going to realize how important ron is to him, not just because hermione is all about books, but really important, because now that sirius is gone, the mixture of "brother and father"[OotP] is gone aswell, so harry is going to need something like a brother, which since he certainly can't find in Dudley, he will find in Ron .. and also, even though im not really a Ron and Hermione fan, just again Hermione and Harry cause thats too much of a cliche and leaves poor ron as the third wheel, i have a gut feeling there will be more chemistry between them in the upcomming books .. there im done, and moaning myrtyle has died [again .. within me .. see what writing about my favorite series can do to me?]

[Etcetera]

Hello everyone, I'm a long time lurker but a total newbie at posting so work with me.

I love this post. I love Ron too (obviously). I hate it when I hear people saying he's going to die or that he's a dimwitted, insensitive prat. I believe Ron will surprise us all (even those of us who already love him). Ron acts like most teenage boys I've known in my lifetime. There is hope for him yet, trust me. :cool:

[fleur822]

i agree with EVERYONE who has said that ron is just a typical kid. everyone acts like ron was this inferior kid with no real point to him. in reality, he is us. we are him. everyone has their bad days, where youre blunt and just flat-out rude. however, normally we are well-behaved, but slightly immature. as a 15 year old girl, i totally relate to ron. he is a male version of me. there is nothing wrong or inferior about the way he acts, he just acts like that because thats who he is. a 15 year old kid.
now about the future...i think ron will really surprise us in book 6 and 7. i think he'll be the same, but a big more grown up, and a lot more confident. i think he will be an important character in deciding lord voldemorts end (or new beginning? i like to keep fans on their toes haha)

your american friend...

[Morgause]

What a good discussion! I absolutely love Ron and hate to see people badmouthing him! :upset: As far as his role in the future, here are my thoughts:

He will, of course, change in future - come on, everyone changes from 15 to 18 (and he will be by the very end). I don't think he's particularly mature or immature for his age in OotP - he's just Ron, age 15/16. :)

One thing I'd like to throw in regarding a moment in OotP. It's when Harry wants to use Umbridge's fire & Hermione is saying no & she turns to Ron for support. Harry is "reminded irresistably of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband". Aside from making me laugh ;) (and I won't talk about Hermione here, because the thread is about Ron :p ), this made me realize just how much like his Dad Ron is starting to become. His involvement in this situation ("Harry can make up his own mind") was very Mr. Weasleyish to me (as compared to the way he used to egg Harry on a lot).

One more point - while I don't think that the trio has become a sextet (R, H and Hr are still closer to each other than anyone else), I think that as they grow into individuals and learn from each other they get less and less dependent on one another, which allows them to expand a little.

[DayVirgo]

As for Ron's ego--It doesn't need healing. It needs shrinking. Hopefully his abysmal performance in the MoM skirmish and his awful advice that contributed to it will chasten him so that he is realistic. I don't want him as ridiculously down on himself as he was when he made a terrible show at Quidditch, but his preening after his one good performance was just as much of an overreaction as his depression over the other two games had been. There is potential but its still buried. . . I agree that Ron does have charm, percpetiveness and a certain straightforward outlook on things that is appealing at times. Unfortunately, the zenith for this type of behavior was back in PS, the only time the Trio behaved as a seamless unit.

Okay, nice ripping into Ron but you need to consider something else . . . he's fifteen. For most of the time, he's always putting himself down and when something good happens to him (like winning in quidditch or wizard chess), he has every right to be excited. There are some shades of Harry's father there, so he definately has room to grow. He also doesn't have Fred, George etc. to compete with anymore so he might calm down and become a great wizard.

[jacEjen]

Ron has been portrayed as being a bumbling idiot in the books, and I really can't see him suited for being anything but the overly jealous somewhat courageous sidekick of Harry's. Ron's problem is not only his lack of confidence, it is also how he tries to boost his ego by playing Quidditch, getting the honour of becoming Prefect, and somewhat stepping out of Harry's shadow. Ron seems to have this illusion that the only way he will develop and like himself is if he wins all these grand honours and awards, and thus Ron is basing his self confidence on what other people think of him, which is not something any strong character does.

In the Mirror of Erised, Ron has a truly selfish wish shown to the readers. Instead of wanting happiness and health for himself and his family, he craves power and status by seeing himself surrounded by Quidditch Cups, Head Boy Badges, School Awards for Special Services and other prizes. Ron is somewhat confused as to how to develop his character, and as OOTP showed us, his path to success is hampered by his own expectations.

When Ron becomes Prefect, he is ecstatic, yet he fails miserably in upholding the basic duties assigned to Prefects. Hermione is a perfect example of someone who is capable of holding a position of power when she acts as a proper Prefect, yet Ron is constantly shunted aside from his duties by worrying what others will think of him if he acts like a Prefect should. Thus, Ron doesn't crave the duties that persons with power have, he just wants the title. Same goes for Ron's position as Quidditch Keeper, although yes, Gryffindor does ultimately scrape the Quidditch Cup, it did so through a series of lucky circumstances that saw the Gryffindor team depending far too much on different teams losing certain matches. Ron's lacklustre playing abilities doomed the Gryffindor team to not relying on their talents, but to rely on pure luck, showcasing to us readers the great incompetance of Ron at holding any position of responsibility.

Ron will never develop as a mature character unless he looks at what niche he needs to fill and what niche he wants to fill. There is a difference, because Ron craving for the titles and power that he saw in the mirror of Erised will not make him a more accomplished individual if once he holds those titles, he fails miserably. For Ron to be a strong personality, he needs to give up trying to upstage his brothers' and sister's shadows and instead grow into his own person, even if that person is not the type to go after crazy honours and prizes.

Ron was 11 when he look in the mirror of Erised. In OotP he was only 15. If he's not totally mature yet I think that is pretty normal. Look at James at that age, at least Ron wouldn't jinx someone because he's bored. Ron also didn't ask for to be prefect, in fact he was shocked by getting it. He never puffed out his chest with his perfectly shined prefect badge like Percy did.

Plus the fact that before he tried out for Quidditch he asked for Harry's help. Not exactly something that an overly proud person could do.

But I think that in the up coming years (only 2 left :sad: ) we will see Ron gain more confidence and mature.

Ron isn't the main character but he a main character and I think that watching him evolve will be truely interesting.:)

[starxgazer]

:bigtu: :bow: Excellent post!

Ron is bound to become a trully great character. I really think that he is on his way to become Head Boy and Prefect. Ron display a lot of diplomacy in dealing with people and while many others could have been picked for Prefect. Ron display a sense of maturity that will help him a lot.


But, Ron wouldn't want that would he? He makes fun of his brother. I don't think that Ron would want to be Headboy or Prefect. Allthough I bet he could, and Harry and Hermione would most definatly support him, but I don't like the idea of Ron being a Headboy or Prefect. :huh:

[Lincoln]

I just want to say that I think it's high time for Ron to grow up and I think when he does he'll become a strong character.

[sirius'swife]

me again
to someone who commented upon ron's vision of himself in the mirror being completely selfish, i'll just say- how then, do you describe harry's? he saw his parents. how did that help anybody else? dont give me blarney abt 'if he saw his parents that means they are alive which is good for them'(sorry if that was a bit strong but ive had that thrown at me before and i dont think i need to go on abt its ridiculousness). what harry saw indicated his wish for family- which he doesnt have. its for HIM. purely for HIM. he doesnt wish for fame as he already has it(more than he understood at that point) and ron wishes for individuality cuz while he has a family, he doesnt fame and success. its simple. and perhaps in the future, we should all analyse things a bit more before jumping to the most obvious conclusion.
and to someone else- hermoine isnt the perfect model of how to handle power- she is over-eager. ron isnt like her cuz he himself did all those things(rule-breaking) and is a lot more realistic abt these issues.
and abt the 'brains' affecting him.....ive wondered abt it on and off and for the life of me, cant come up with what can happen with that. im not entirely sure if something will happen with that either....it maybe too late in the series to give him a new power/dimension cuz she wont be able to explore it justifiably.
and as for basing his self-worth on quidditch matches- i wonder what else has he got to base it on? we all base our self-confidence on the things we achieve or the effort we put it into it. and as for someone else(sorry the quote thing mysteriously stuffs up on me all the time) who said his reaction was overblown, id like to say....WHA....???
he savoured his win for the next day- but immediately snapped back to attention when he was told abt grawp. he never once mentions his Cup victory after that. clearly now he has other bigger(excuse the pun) issues on his mind. until then, he rejoices. that is perfectly acceptable.
and for the hair-flick thing. he's getting used to ppl paying attention to him and he likes that- who wouldnt? at the beginning at least? and dont use that play him down in comparison with harry(first of all, why are we pitting the trio against each other? that'd be disastrous if it actually happened in the book) cuz need i remind us all of harry considering showing his umbridge scar(on his hand) to cho, 'accidentally-on-purpose' after she calls him brave? they're 15-year old boys. and with the war coming, i for one am grateful that JK lets them be silly like that. i think its wonderful.

[minerva_mcG]

Couldn't agree, sirius'swife!
At first reading one might think: oh look at harry his parents are dead and the deepest desire of his heart is to be with them and that they are alive. Compared to Ron's wish that he has position (headboy etc...) and the power that comes with them that seems selfish. But we cannot compare these two to each other, that is completely unfair.
Harry lived a horrible life with the Dursleys and never really had a loving family, of course he wishes to be with his parents who love him. He had really only just found out that they died for him!
Ron on the other hand grew up in aloving family, he does not need to wish for them. Isn't it only natural for a boy of 11, who is feels inferior to all his older brothers and never had attention focused just on him to wish that he had attention and position that got his brothers praise from his parents and attention from his peers?
I can understand Ron all to well, and his behaviour in OotP is only normal for a 15 year old, as is Harry's! Especially with all the unusual things that go on in their lives, we should cut them, and Ron in particular, some slack...

[mozinha]

The only problem Ron has is just too much pressure. His brothers did everything they could, won almost everything. They made their parents so proud. Now what's left for Ron to do?

[PhineasNigellus]

i agree with EVERYONE who has said that ron is just a typical kid. everyone acts like ron was this inferior kid with no real point to him. in reality, he is us. we are him. everyone has their bad days, where youre blunt and just flat-out rude. however, normally we are well-behaved, but slightly immature.... there is nothing wrong or inferior about the way he acts, he just acts like that because thats who he is. a 15 year old kid.
I completely agree. He's a 15 year old boy, he's going to be selfish and immature and impulsive at times. Nobody's perfect, particuarly not when they're teenagers.
I think that now he's the eldest Weasley at Hogwarts, and he's a bit older and has had more responsibility (as a prefect and as keeper) he'll start to mature a lot more, and I can't wait to see how JKR writes him in the next book. I'm sick of him being a sidekick though. I think Ron has the potential to be a leader, moreso than Harry. He's more rational, he doesn't allow his emotions to cloud his judgement like Harry does. It depends on the events of book 6, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ron were to become Head Boy.

[Morgause]

I completely agree, sirius'swife! Ron's vision in the mirror wasn't selfish or shallow. His heart's desire was to surpass the high standards that his older brothers have set for him. I can certainly identify. Ron wants his family to be proud of him - who doesn't want that?

I also just don't understand how anyone could call Ron's behaviour after the quiddich match arrogant. He was just excited! And why shouldn't he be pleased with himself? The whole of Griffindor walked off the pitch singing his praise and carrying him on thier shoulders! Yay Ron!

[Jordan]

Ron is a very real character. I say this because his two best friends have somewhat "unnatural" problems: Harry has problems nobody else has, (like competing in a contest with and age limit of three years more than your count…) and Hermione is just way to obsessed with studying for a normal teenager.

Ron, on the other hand, deals with issues most of us readers can agree and relate ourselves to. He has to live up to family standards, he has a friend who always gets better grades than him (no matter what…), and he has a famous friend, whom next to him he is always shadowed.

Being made Prefect was a huge step for Ron. He not only lived up to his family's standards, he showed everyone he is capable. And to top it all, he for once was put in a better place than his best friend.
Ron's fifth year in general was good. He had a few downfalls (just to show that nobody's perfect), and yet his year turned out better than the years before.

In Ron's 5th year, he became a prefect, and a better Quidditch player. Both of these things are enough to inflat a kid's head, but I do not think at any point did Ron become immature about this. Yes, he did talk extensively after his winning Quidditch match, but I do not think he was as immature as James was in his 5th year. I think in the 6th book, Ron will keep his same qualities, but I believe he will become much more confident.

I totally agree, yet I don't think Ron's head inflated at all. For the first time, he felt good for himself: He got what he wanted (like being on the Quidditch team) and he's proud for it. All his pride was put aside in a heartbeat when Harry's troubles came up, which shows that Ron wasn't totally obsessed with success (he knew when to let go).

I also believe Ron will become more confident. He is a uniqe character: brave, cute, sarcastic (my favorite quality!!!), and smart in his own fashion.

[burningphoenix]

Ron is a very real character. I say this because his two best friends have somewhat "unnatural" problems: Harry has problems nobody else has, (like competing in a contest with and age limit of three years more than your count…) and Hermione is just way to obsessed with studying for a normal teenager.

Ron, on the other hand, deals with issues most of us readers can agree and relate ourselves to. He has to live up to family standards, he has a friend who always gets better grades than him (no matter what…), and he has a famous friend, whom next to him he is always shadowed.

Being made Prefect was a huge step for Ron. He not only lived up to his family's standards, he showed everyone he is capable. And to top it all, he for once was put in a better place than his best friend.
Ron's fifth year in general was good. He had a few downfalls (just to show that nobody's perfect), and yet his year turned out better than the years before.

I totally agree with you Jordan :).
I don't understand how so many people can hate Ron! Would the books be as funny without Ron's immaturity and comic relief?
And honestly, isn't every person immature at one point of their life or another?

[Morgause]

Agreed, burningphoenix!

And not only would the books be less funny without Ron, but Harry and Hermione's lives would be too. They both have a tendency to take things too seriously and Ron helps them to lighten up!

[Alnick1]

Don't no why all of you are going with Tom Riddle "Voldemort is my past, present, and future. Go with Hagrid!

[tao]

While I think Alnick1 is right and Tom Riddle is not the HBP, that is not exactly the point of this discussion, is it. :p

So on Ron: A lot theories and posts here are really good.
It has been mentioned before, but as so many posts stated the opposite in the beginning of this thread I wanted to bring it up again:
Ron doesn´t really have a low self esteem. He values himself quite a lot. He is a typical kid that dit grow up with loving parents, he was never rejected, maybe treated harsh by his two years older brothers and maybe Ginny was the cutest one as being the only girl and youngest child but I think there was enough love left for him. We see it nowadays that Molly has enough love for her family AND Harry and I think she could manage 20 or 30 grandchildren. Arthur is almost the same.
Also Bill and Charlie are really nice guys, aren´t they. I imagine they were quite kind to little Ron when they were (?)17 and older and taught him stuff like chess and flying without making fun of him. That was the twins job. Also Ron played Quidditsh with his brothers, Ginny wasn´t allowed. And Percy was a favourite victim to the twins too, so Ron was never an outcast in the family, or something.

Everything you wrote about how hard it is to be the youngest brother and the last in everything, and how hard it must be growing up with the twins is true, I just wanted to add the other side.

That was about the family background. Back to the point that I think Ron has high self esteem. He likes himself. He expects that other people like him just for what he is. He is not thankfull to have friends or something. He just chooses the people he likes and is a good friend for them. Not thinking for a second that they could dislike him. And of course they don´t.
You see when he is mad with Harry in GoF (also if unjustified) he just hangs out with Seamus, Dean and Neville. Independent and proud. Then he sees he is wrong and makes up with Harry.

Still he has some issues. Its not easy for everyone to do any kind of performance in front of the whole school. And in sports sombody will loose. And if you are keeper you are the only keeper. Then add the less than supportive brothers ... He is insecure about his Quidditch performance, but that does not mean he has low self esteem.
Neville, that was a charakter with low self esteem. (I really hope it´ll be better in book 6.)

Another thing some poeple got wrong - in my opinion. He isn´t complaining about being poor very often. When does he do that. If you have to wear truly ugly dress robes for a ball in school that IS just horrible. I would have stayed at home to be honest (I´m of course a girl) Its just a bad situation. Of course he is not happy about things like this, but he has neither an inferiority complex about it nor complaines a lot. Draco talks about it much more than Ron. Also Fred and George get just as angry about it as Ron does, if you remember the scene after the match in OotP.

So what am I saying about book 6 ... Ahm... He has self esteem, the only problem with poverty is that he hasn´t got enough money (that could easily change with Mr W as minister o M, for example) so how will he change? He will hopefully be less insecure.
I also fear that some very bad things will happen to Ron before the happy ending. I would hope he´d get a break next book after the hard 5th year but I think he won´t.

[darklordspal]

To tao,

I agree with everything you said. I also share your forboding for Ron.

Harry is going to have a very tough time before all this is over, but Ron and Hermy may catch some of it as well.

[DayVirgo]

So what am I saying about book 6 ... Ahm... He has self esteem, the only problem with poverty is that he hasn´t got enough money (that could easily change with Mr W as minister o M, for example) so how will he change? He will hopefully be less insecure.
I also fear that some very bad things will happen to Ron before the happy ending. I would hope he´d get a break next book after the hard 5th year but I think he won´t.

Money, I don't think, is Ron's self esteem problem. Its a bit of a shallow reason, if you ask me. Others may disagree with this point. However, I work at a day camp and some of the children who are subsidized do not appear to have such self esteem problems. I do not claim to be an expert with children, but I have been working with children for a long time and this is a trend I have noticed.

And fingers crossed for nothing happening to Ron in the book. I like his character and would like to see him progress into a fine adult.

[MorgaineLaFay]

The books would most definetly be a lot more serious with out Ron....Harry and Hermione take everything very serious, (Hermione ALWAYS does-which is good thing) but also Harry lives and enjoys life a little with Ron there......imagon how aweful hearing about that proffacy with out having a best friend who could cheer you up.-even if they dont know about it. I really hope that Ron isn;t the next charecter JKR cuts, I kinda hope there is no death in the HBP though. well TTYL! :)

[WickedWitch21]

I think that there are many facts in OotP that might be considered as turning points regarding Ron.
Having fought the Death Eaters himself, his brothers' no longer being at school, having being named prefect... I think all these things might trigger his self-esteem, so that he will play a more active role on the upcoming books, not being so dependant on Harry.

[bethp]

I think Ron is a normal teenager...he has moments of immaturity, anger etc...

I think he has always wanted to prove himself, let's face it he as 5 older brothers - 3 were prefects, 2 were both prefects and head boys, 3 or 4 played on quidditch team (not sure did Bill play?) ... Charlie and Bill have great jobs they like and he has a lot to prove himself against. Fred and George had each other, rather than feeling alone or left out they could rely on each other and have a totally different personality from the rest of the brothers. The closest brother that would be "available" was Percy and well let's face it even before he turned his back on his family he was pretty much a prat. I think he idolized Charlie and Bill and wanted to be like them - that's why he saw what he did in the mirror.

I don't think it was selfish to brag about winning the last quidditch match let's face it he went thru hell with the slytherans.

Also his relationship with hermione is a perfect example of a boys way to get a girls attention - picking on them, teasing them - its classic.

Ron is a great source of humor for the trio as well as a help...he sometimes looks at things completely different.

I think what Ron has lacked along the way was confidence and he gained a bit in PS/SS but really made the leap in Ootp. I think we will finally even hear him say Voldemort!

[jordmundt6]

DayVirgo--I thought I'd address this belatedly. "He's always putting himself down"--really? When? He only berates his own skills when it comes to Quidditch and, as I said before, he reacts just as badly to success as he does to failure. He needs a reality check. Yes he is fifteen. But somehow he's behind BOTH Hermione AND Harry (Harry's rage notwithstanding) in maturity. Age is--at best--a partial defense. You bring up James. That's true, there is one similarity--Ron does try to impress girls when he's done something (or, more often, had something happen to him) to make him the center of attention. Harry at 11 was more mature about Quidditch than Ron is now. I simply find that odd. I would be surprised but thrilled, THRILLED, if Ron's bout with the escaped brain forced him to become more mature. He'd become an integral part of the trio and sextet in ALL phases then.

[angrypenguin]

Ron not have self esteem issues? I'm sure he has bouts of it. It's really hard not to when you live in the shadows.

[rock_ally]

I DO NOT see ron and hermione together. NO NO NO!! it would wreck the mood of the book, make IT the big deal, and take away from the magic of it all. (forgive the pun)

[MorgaineLaFay]

I also hope that Ron becomes more mature, he does seem a lot like Harry's dad in some senses, but the way he takes things is kinda a turn down to him as a charecter.
If he does become more mature, I at least hope he keeps his sense of humor......
What does everyone reading this think that the whole brain thing might have done to him???????

why not Hermione and ron?

[tao]

DayVirgo
I was saying he has not got a self esteem problem with being poor. He hasn´t got enough money but he has got a high self esteem.
You read my post to quickly.

jordmundt6
Harry and Hermione are not that mature and I can´t see that Ron is behind his age. When do you expect people to behave immature then´. They are really young. 19 year olds are also pretty young and immature from my point of view, as I´m older than 19 years. And I don´t know a lot of 25 year olds that I would call grown up. Thank god the HP charakters are not grown up at the age of 15, because that would be a really stupid book.
Harry wasn´t mature about Quidditch at the age of 11. He was fantastic, a nature talent, who had nothing to prove and still proved everything.
If life is that easy, you don´t have to be mature, you can just enjoy it.

[DayVirgo]

He needs a reality check. Yes he is fifteen. But somehow he's behind BOTH Hermione AND Harry (Harry's rage notwithstanding) in maturity. Age is--at best--a partial defense. You bring up James. That's true, there is one similarity--Ron does try to impress girls when he's done something (or, more often, had something happen to him) to make him the center of attention. Harry at 11 was more mature about Quidditch than Ron is now. I simply find that odd. I would be surprised but thrilled, THRILLED, if Ron's bout with the escaped brain forced him to become more mature. He'd become an integral part of the trio and sextet in ALL phases then.

So Ron may need a reality check and Harry was more matuure at 11 then Ron is at 15. Although I agree that Ron is immature, I wouldn't compair is maturity level to that of Hermione and Harry, as both have been very mature since the beginning. Ron I find is your typical 15 year old . . . gets nervous about doing things without help (like trying out for quidditch), and when he fails he goes down hard (e.g. wanting to quit the team). And Ron, I find, has only recently started paying attention to girls (and by recent I mean GoF recent . . . its just more noticable in OotP). Also, just one more note about the maturity difference. Take a look at what Harry had to grow up with. He was depressed for all his life, untill he found out he was a wizard. Hermione seems like she also had a hard time (possibly at school). Ron was at home, yes with horrible brothers sometimes, but much more sheltered environment than most children.

Also, the part you wrote in about Ron's escape from the brain. Think about what happend to him . . . they way he was responding was very non-Ron like; he was laughing instead of freaking out. Maybe when the brain was removed he couldn't remember it or they placed a memory charm on him (maybe an excellent reason as to why Dumbledore whisked Harry out of the MoM so fast . .. far fetched but whatever. Meant to be a joke).

[Morgause]

You made lots of good points, tao. I agree for the most part, but I wouldn't say that Ron has no self-esteem problems. Sure, he's not as bad as Neville, but he does struggle, which is normal. What teenager doesn't have self-esteem issues? Everyone just has a different way of dealing with it. Some, (Hermione) overcompensate, while others (Harry) bottle it up inside. Ron prefers to complain.

Rock Ally, I suggest you visit the love thread. :)

[hermyweasly]

Ron is a good character. I can say that Ron is a simple one. No one can hate Ron. He makes the books more enjoyable. if there isn't Ron, Most people wouldn't read it. Harry always shouting and Hermione is always in the library.

[stormcat_5000]

I think ron is afraid he will turn out like percy.He too likes good things in life ,and that scares him that he may turn out like percy "he says i am not percy".he was bad as a prefect because of percy ,percy was a strict prefect and ron did not want to emulate him specialy in front of the twins. he feels that he is needed by Harry to provide him a family in hogwarts.if you look closely ron and harry are more like brothers than friends. but ron has to be more than a loyal friend to harry now.the war has broken out and since Ron is protective of Harry,Ron has to grow as a person and as a wizard because being hopelessly loyal does not mean that he would be able to help harry in times of peril.he may have the heart of a knight ,but he needs to have the skills of a knight to save Harry

[Morgause]

On Ron not wanting to be like Percy:

'"You're starting to sound a bit like our dear older brother, you are, Ron. Carry on like this and you'll be made a Prefect." [(Fred)]
"No, I won't!" said Ron hotly.' GoF, 493

I thought this was pretty funny when I reread GoF recently. It kind of explains Ron's attitude with the twins about the whole Prefect thing. :)

[sirius'swife]

i know! and he even goes out and says it in ootp(in hogwarts express) when he has to tell harry that he has to go to the prefect meeting first- i found it oddly touching.....he sounded confused, like he is enjoying this prefectship business but is worried that it makes him like percy. it shows what he thinks of percy and the idea of betraying the family(but i must mention, that i can understand why percy did what he did...not sympathize but just understand)
and that is why he didnt fully exercise his power as prefect...i think thats an issue he needs to resolve. of course the entire weasley clan needs to resolve that issue.
here's hoping that, one way or another, things work themselves out, in the 6th book.
but even with that, i dont expect ron to be as feverishly dutiful as hermoine is....ever.

[DayVirgo]

Sirius' Wife, I don't think that Ron has a big issue with his older brothers. I think he has a typical relationship that one would have with siblings. They make him nervous as they have already obtained some sort of success as now he has to be able to live up to that. As soon as the last of the elder Weaslies left, he calmned down a lot as it wasn't a constant reminder for him.

[LadyDeathEater]

Ron is a good character. I can say that Ron is a simple one. No one can hate Ron. He makes the books more enjoyable. if there isn't Ron, Most people wouldn't read it. Harry always shouting and Hermione is always in the library.
Haha, yea

[sirius'swife]

oh i know. i was just saying elsewhere that even the twins(who are regarded as the 'cruelest' to ron) are just ur garden-variety older brothers. i grew up the youngest of a million cousins and i was teased something awful. every chance they got, they ripped into me but i was always secure in the knowledge that if someone outside the family tried it with me, my brothers and sisters would be there in a flash, fighting that person down. i expect its the same with the weasleys. i was just on abt ron reacting to the thought that someone might think he is like percy with respect to the whole prefect thing. i speculated that perhaps that might be one of the reasons he never came into himself as a prefect in ootp, cuz he consciously held himself back...fearing that he might tread into 'percy' territory if he admonished the twins abt their jokeshop carrying on and stuff. i think he might have overcompensated.
and when i said that the weasley clan need to resolve that issue, i meant their falling-out with percy.

[jactay]

Hi all,

Ron makes the books so nice to read, but so did Peeves and Moaning Murtle. No offence to those who loves Peeves and Moaning Murtle, I love them too. But to see Ron grow up, no way ..... he is a sidekick to Harry and he will still be.

Look at the way he handle his authority as a prefect, how he hadn't exert his authority or book anyone in his fifth year ? Look at his school work, how he had kept asking Hermione to let him copy hers ? Look at his handling Ginny and Hermione's dating, it likes he totally can't get a grip and he's not the one dating, mind you. Look at his Quiditch matches, how he played all season? Ok he may be a Gryfindor hero now, but how can his confidence in a sport suddenly and overnight spill over to cause him to want to buck up in his school work, suddenly not procrastinating, be upright in his prefect authority and at the same time mature in the area of dating?

We are talking about Harry fighting LV as an equal, its a demanding job. Harry needs to have lots of bravery, leadership and character strength. And he has. Ron just can't measure up. Where is he going to get more character and moral strength overnight to set him apart from Harry? Let's accept it, Harry is the great wizard. Hermione is the brillant one. Ron ? He is the average student, the regular guy, and it will be so in Book 6. :evil:

[stormcat_5000]

Hmm I can't see Ron as a average regular guy any more .why you ask?. Because average regular guys dont win wars,they are the ones,who die two minutes into a war! its the truth.If you look at Ron in that way then he will die dueling some random death eater! his existence so far into the story will be useless!then he would have been killed off before rather than sirius.(Hey ron is faithful and he would have been able to help the way sirius would help harry in the future!).so the question is why does Ron still exist if he is the regular average guy with nothing to do?

[Ecthelion]

Hmm I can't see Ron as a average regular guy any more .why you ask?. Because average regular guys dont win wars,they are the ones,who die two minutes into a war! its the truth.

Actually....if the regular guy didn't win the war....were those millions of normal guys in World War Two insignificant? Were the Founding Fathers just as well off in their war against Britian without their thousands of regular minute-men? And what about the French Revolution? Those "peasants" can easily be seen as normal and "regular" people. Quite honestly I'd like to differ on your opinion of "average regular guys dont win wars"....

You ask what Ron's purpose is because he's supposably a regular guy.

So basically, you're saying that for Ron to stay so long and important in the book, he has to be something "special''?

The thing is, is that these books are taken from Harry's point of view. And from Harry's point of view, "regular" is "special". Ron, though he could be the most normal of kids in the wizarding world, gives Harry things that he could never attain.....normalcy. Harry is absolutely filled to the brim with peculiarities and special powers/characteristics yet does not have the normal kid-things that Ron has. You ask what his purpose is....Although the Second War is probably the biggest plot device in the whole series, Harry's personal life is a very close second. And Ron is inevitably a part of that. I do not think that either Harry or Ron sees their importance to one another. After all, their connection is very subtle and liable to be broken.

With Harry's thin temper fluctuating with the horrors he has to face, and Ron's all-but-dormant jealousy just below the surface, tensions between them are extremely high. Their friendship, in my opinion, has been on the wane the last two years and is in desperate need of a rejuvination. The only way this can come about is if they realize just how their important to one another. Ron has access to stardom and firm protection and trust from Harry and Harry, through Ron, acquires the daily and family life he's never had before. Although they may think otherwise, this is quite a fair trade.

The problem is, is that this reliance on each other ranks within the catagory of "feelings"....and we all know just how inept Harry and Ron are at recognizing those....

*sigh*

Hopefully they'll at least subconsciously work out their mutual friendship to where it was a couple years ago. :)

[Morgause]

I don't think Harry and Ron's friendship is on the wane. Their bond is as strong as ever, although they are becoming more independent of one another. When they started becoming friends they clung to one another because each had everything the other wanted, yet as they grow and become independent adults they don't need to rely on each other as much in that sense. However, with all they've been through together I don't think you could have two closer friends (apart from Hermione, of course!)

[SnowyOwl]

Interesting interpretation, Ecthelion, but I just don't see the "dormant jealousy" or the lack of understanding of Ron's and Harry's importance to each other by the end of OoTP.
Ron walked a tightrope with an understandably emotional Harry this past year and did very well. He has been and will always be extremely loyal. Ron was very aware of the horrors Harry faced at night. He has a best friend who is seeing things through Voldemort's eyes--if that isn't enough to freak out the average friend, I don't know what is. Yet Ron did not abandon Harry. He helped him and kept his silence even when Harry changed the story of the snake attack.
Ron calmly gave his opinion when it was needed (i.e. backing up Hermione's feeling that Harry should stop jumping down their throats, etc.) and pulled back when he felt Harry should make up his own mind.
I, like some poster back a few pages, agree that Ron resembles his father. Some would argue that Arthur is ruled by Molly, but he asserts himself when it is an area of importance.
Yes, Ron is bothered by the lack of funds at times, yet he never bad-mouths his parents for it. Unlike Percy, Ron does not feel that his father is to blame. He was as indignant as the rest of his siblings when Percy lit into his dad.
Those who keep posting about Ron's "abysmal" job as a prefect love to quote any "bad" thing that happens and conveniently skip over anything positive. Truth be told, we have a rough start (mostly having to do with the twins), a listing given by Ron before Christmas of the Prefect duties that he has to do, and then we only have the odd comment thrown in here and there after that. It's just not that important to the story. It has been said that prefect Ron should be a good example at all times yet Percy was meeting Penelope all over the school to make out--I don't hear the mob yelling, "Turn the badge in!" My point is that it is silly. They're still 15 year olds. Each of the trio definitely has their moments of immaturity, just as each of them has their moments of maturity.

[Da_Chinkster]

I don't think you could have two closer friends (apart from Hermione, of course!)

I have to say I think Ron and Harry's friendship is stronger and always has been than either of theirs with Hermione. Of course they still have a very close bond with Hermione but it just isnt the same as Ron and Hermione.

As a character Ron is great. Ron is the lighter side of the book. A lot of the amusing parts of the series tend to happen around him. And above all he is the most loyal friend. There is no way anyone can say that Harry's and Ron's friendship is waning because although they have their disagreements (that's inevitable) in the end their friendship will prevail over everything else

[Ecthelion]

Well said SnowyOwl :)

Here's my take on some of the things you pointed out.

I just don't see the "dormant jealousy" or the lack of understanding of Ron's and Harry's importance to each other by the end of OoTP.


Hmm...the Dormant Jealousy that I"m speaking of is one that everyone besides Harry has. Like it or not, Ron, to one length or another, is jealous of Harry and his fame, money, popularity, and other such things. He is not alone. However, what makes it so different then the others is that it is much more palpable considering he is Harry's best friend.

I'm not really questioning Ron's inner feelings, though I do see a distinct possibility for them flaring up again, but merely observing them. As you do, I have no doubt in my mind that Ron will continue to be Harry's best friend throughout their time together. However, I also see another fallout as a possibility as well. I myself do not think that the fourth year brawl is fully reconciled. A mutual agreement was sort of reached, but a discussion was never initiated. To me, they still need to talk about their relationship. A bit lame and corny, I know, but they really need to do so. With Ron being a bit inflated with his Quidditch success, and Harry, who is seen as some sort of quidditch legend, there tempers and egos might just reach spearpoint. But we'll see.

Ron calmly gave his opinion when it was needed (i.e. backing up Hermione's feeling that Harry should stop jumping down their throats, etc.) and pulled back when he felt Harry should make up his own mind.


Ahh....See, I felt as if Ron only backed up hermione when he saw that Harry wasn't going to get angry. Although this may be for the good temporarily, it is not for the greater good. People need to tell Harry things despite his formidable temper. As it is....I saw it as Ron only backing up Harry when he seemed inclined to the idea, even though it may not have been the best one.

As for his likeness to his father and mother, and also his prefect jobs....that'll have to wait for another post. I've got to go at the moment. :)

[sirius'swife]

aah dear the quote thing spectacularly stuffed up on me......but this is my response to ecthelion(i sincerely hope ive got ur name right)

a bit inflated? i see no evidence of it at all. the only time ron talks abt the victory is the day after the cup and he is relishing the fact that he backed himself and came up trumps. he is enjoying the fact that he isnt rubbish at the sport he loves. and then hermoine brings up grawp and we see him immediately snap back to attention. he is now more interested in the grawp issue. i think calling his pleasure at winning the cup as an inflated head is unrealistic as we only get the james-esque hair ruffling, and everyone does that at his age(harry was even abt to show off his umbridge scars to cho to impress her). perhaps im reading something else but he doesnt have an inflated head regarding the quidditch victory. he is overjoyed by it but he moves on. and thats fact.
and the disagreement in gof- ron was ready to grovel, cuz he accepts he is wrong but harry finds that he doesnt need to hear it. he's just finished the first task, remarkably well and the school doesnt hate him anymore and his best mate is back and believes him once again. i actually thought that this is when harry and ron's mateship moved from a very immature 'we-do everything-together-thats-why we're-mates' level to a level where they do everything together cuz they're mates. get the difference? honestly, just cuz they have some disagreements, it would be unwise on our part to think that their mateship is declining. need i remind anyone that after the fight during the 1st task, ron is still the thing that harry would miss most in the 2nd task(i found it oddly spooky)

well of course ron agreed when HE thought it was a good idea. its admirable. you cant force something on ur mate when u dont believe in it urself. ron understood harry in ootp- he was willing to ignore the rules for his mate. he knows that harry needs to make up his own mind regarding talking to sirius, and i think it is cuz he is also like that. ron knows that had the tables been reversed, he would've also gone and done exactly as he pleased. and that noone, not even hermoine's logic will hold him back. that said, you'll notice that he didnt give his advice or opinion when hermoine is trying to dissuade harry from using umbridge's fire to contact sirius? so maybe he understood harry's pov but also quietly agreed that the danger was there? taht would mean that ron had a better and broader understanding of the situation that either we or hermoine gave him credit for.
and the mild telling off to harry in divination- how can you say that ron only speaks up when he thinks harry wont blow up? he had just blown up very rudely to both hermoine and harry a few moments ago...and he's still in a strop...agreed its class but harry couldve quietly told him to *** off and moved away- but u'll notice that he didnt? he is contrite when ron calmly overrides him and gives his opinion, which isnt high-strung like someone else we know....i dont understand how that didnt require a certain amount of gryffindor courage?
yeah true that. it would be off topic- besides jk hs put him on notice(on the world book day chat, she said something along the lines of keeping his proffession a secret, that is of course assuming that ron will live which of course she wont talk further abt)

[stormcat_5000]

if in a war that is not a revolution, the solders get training and those who are not able to keep up ,are thrown out!. In a revolution people dont care about their life, its a do or die situation. A whole lot of average regular people die ,those who are lucky live . In a war soldiers are trained to be above average people, but on the battlefield these special people also die.
what I am saying is that Ron has to grow into something strong otherwise the way things are going for him he will be killed dueling some random death eater

why are people so worried he will die? its because they know he is not good in a battle situations, but he is exteremely protective and the only way people see him saving Harry is taking a Avada Kedavra spell for Harry
Ron needs to be strong to be successfuly defend Harry against Death Eaters,otherwise he is reduced to an appendage (remember the Brains at D.O.M?).

[Lupin_Lady]

People shouldn't be worried about the death of a character. We know JKR's style... everything is linked to something else... so DD saying "Death is but the next big adventure" is only a hint that dying in the magic world is not dying at all...

[sirius'swife]

why are people so worried he will die? its because they know he is not good in a battle situations, but he is exteremely protective and the only way people see him saving Harry is taking a Avada Kedavra spell for Harry
Ron needs to be strong to be successfuly defend Harry against Death Eaters,otherwise he is reduced to an appendage (remember the Brains at D.O.M?).

well actually none of the trio are ready for serious battle. both ron and hermoine were knocked out early. and harry was manipulated into the whole messy situation in the first place. so it can be argued quite rightly that none of them are ready for it- if anything, the DoM highlighted problem areas for the trio....
ron's got heart and willingness- thats really half the battle won(in a metaphorical sense of course). magic-wise, harry's got all these special abilities courtesy tom riddle, but otherwise- jk's made it out that both ron and harry are almost the same academically(except DADA) so i see no reason why with a bit of training or experience or both, ron and hermoine cant be battle ready

[DayVirgo]

hmm...the Dormant Jealousy that I"m speaking of is one that everyone besides Harry has. Like it or not, Ron, to one length or another, is jealous of Harry and his fame, money, popularity, and other such things. He is not alone. However, what makes it so different then the others is that it is much more palpable considering he is Harry's best friend.

I could be reading this wrong, but it felt like you placed this Dormant Jealousy very one-sided. I think Harry has plenty to be jealous of Ron. He has a loving family and is very connected to the Wizarding world, whereas Harry spends his summers at home in almost isolation with the occasional owl from his friends.

I'm not really questioning Ron's inner feelings, though I do see a distinct possibility for them flaring up again, but merely observing them. As you do, I have no doubt in my mind that Ron will continue to be Harry's best friend throughout their time together. However, I also see another fallout as a possibility as well. I myself do not think that the fourth year brawl is fully reconciled. A mutual agreement was sort of reached, but a discussion was never initiated. To me, they still need to talk about their relationship. A bit lame and corny, I know, but they really need to do so. With Ron being a bit inflated with his Quidditch success, and Harry, who is seen as some sort of quidditch legend, there tempers and egos might just reach spearpoint. But we'll see.

This is interesting. I don't think that Ron and Harry would really talk about their feelings to one another yet. They are still pretty immature to get into that much depth. A good example of this would be when Harry would become uncomfortable when Cho was crying. He also was not sure about how to respond to make her feel comfortable. I, too, can see them having another argument, however not over quidditch and not in the sixith book.

[Morgause]

Ahh....See, I felt as if Ron only backed up hermione when he saw that Harry wasn't going to get angry. Although this may be for the good temporarily, it is not for the greater good. People need to tell Harry things despite his formidable temper. As it is....I saw it as Ron only backing up Harry when he seemed inclined to the idea, even though it may not have been the best one.

I really don't see the problem with this. Ron is the type of person who is able to put his feelings aside when dealing with his friends' problems. He understands that Harry needs space and needs to make up his own mind. I would also like to point out the change in him from earlier books when he was always egging Harry on to be reckless (I'm thinking of PoA).

[Lavender Brown]

Ron is not going to die out in these stories, but he will not play a starring role either. When the final battle roles around Ron will stand beside his best friend but he will not be the one who fights. Perhaps he will be dealing with his own bad guys (Malfoy?) or just helping Harry from the side lines, and while he is not defined as a sidekick, it is, in the end a pretty good adjective.

[SiriusBlack22]

Ron will be the same as he always has been. Scared some, but willing to help Harry. He's the funny guy in the book and I don't think that JK will kill em off...

[stormcat_5000]

So he wont die ,and he wont fight big battles, what a waste tof time!!.Even Robin helped Batman in big battles!

[I <3 Ron]

Why say he won't die? What better way to destroy Harry than kill one of his best friends?

And all signs point to Ron (I swear, there's a lot of subtle, and not so subtle, clues for his death).

[Tane]

Why say he won't die? What better way to destroy Harry than kill one of his best friends?

And all signs point to Ron (I swear, there's a lot of subtle, and not so subtle, clues for his death).

That is something I fear too as he has countless times shown us his ability to sacrifice himself for the good, the chess set the quidditch matches where he felt embarrassed and yet still went on. Ron does not give up easily and that says something about Harry and Ron’s friendship, Ron will fight to keep that alive, keep it going and will not allow little set backs get to him as much as we think.

To say that Ron will not partake in any future battles can not be true as he has already been in a number of personal battles with Harry, the last being in OotP at the very end of the book. Ron was willing to go with Harry to the Ministry of Magic and face Voldemort there and then if he had to, so I do not see him ever leaving Harry's side in battle even though there friendship might get a little more rocky before it becomes back on track again. Sirius's death might even bring back there friendship as Ron new Sirius too and probably feels some of the loss Harry went through after finding out about the death, not all of course but a little.

I think we might see a completely different Ron in the next book, braver, less whiny and he might even start to understand other people more around him.

[wachtourak]

ron is the dumb charachter hes just a harry poter wannabe *** lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[I <3 Ron]

ron is the dumb charachter hes just a harry poter wannabe *** lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
*suppresses anger*
Please take that back.

[sirius'swife]

ron is the dumb charachter hes just a harry poter wannabe *** lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
umm....your proof for that is?
but never fear- its things like this that make my day. honestly everyone needs a laugh every now and then

[Prof.Blink]

wow... this is a great thread, some really great discussions! Keep up the good work!

I have to completely agree with those of you who feel Ron is Harry's greatest companion and will continue to be just that. He has shown on countless occasions that he will accompany Harry to the end. Despite a few bouts of jealousy, Ron has remained as one of the few people who Harry can rely on day after day. Ron was there for him in every book so far and has on numerous occasions been the one to rescue Harry from the Dursleys.

Ron has matured over the years. Ok, so he's not the most mature person there but he certainly is improving with age. As soon as he finds out about the prophecy and Harry's destiny, i think we will see an immediate change. He will be devastated. I think at that point it will hit Ron just how serious this whole situation is and that there is a possibility that Harry will not always win the battle and survive to tell the tale. I can see Ron taking on a role that constantly reassures Harry but at the same time worries for him. The fact that Dumbledore will not be able to come to the rescue everytime Harry and LV meet is a scary one. Ron as a result of that simple fact, will be watching harry's back more than ever.

That, coupled with the fact that there is a very good chance that a member of the wealsey family could indeed be killed as a result of the coming war, will cause Ron to mature further beyond anything we have seen so far.

[Princeofdragons]

She's said in a few interviews sutaly that he won't die.

[RChou]

You rock dude! I've already given a lot of my opinion of Ron, and bias as it may be (Ron is my favorite character if you haven't figured it out by now) I still think a a lot of it holds true.

The quintessential Ron, IMO, was when he warned Hermione about freeing elves when they not might want to be free. (diplomat/equality) He then proceeded to remove the junk hiding the clothes so the house elves wouldn't be free against their will. (choice) And then the next day he proceeded to make a cutting remark to Hermione about the quality of her sewing. (immaturity) :rotfl:


It's complicated. As I've said in another thread, it is entirely possible that the House Elves do not view themselves as in an employer/employee relationship. My personal feeling is that they view themselves as a member of the family. Yes, sometimes your family treats you horribly but you still care and love them and being handed clothes is the equivalent of being given a divorce.

Hermione works very hard on behalf of Harry and Ron. Is she being exploited? No, because she does this of her own free will. The question really becomes why the House Elves are doing it. To assume their brainwashed is to put a human interpretation on the behavior of alien people. It may be true, but it is entirely possible that Hermione does not really understand the House Elf position.

Lastly, what gives her the right to decide what is best for the House Elves over the House Elves own wishes? She is exhibiting the exact same sort of arrogance that other wizards exihibit towards other non-human races. Hermione's behavior could be considered merely a continuation of "the white man's burden" and all that wonderful thinking that led to British Imperialism and the imposing of British beliefs on native cultures. In the end, I think the House Elves have the right to decide what they want.

Ron actually shows more respect to the House Elves than Hermione does. He uncovers the hats, and doesn't remove them. He gives them the choice to take the hats and go or not as they choose. Ron gives them a choice where Hermione tries to deny the choice and trick them into doing what she wants whether or not its what they want.




:upset: Its so beautiful. And how right you are.

[WeasleyIsOurKing]

ron is the dumb charachter hes just a harry poter wannabe *** lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Honestly, you can't be serious. :rotfl:

I've always loved Ron and I'm going to love him even more now as his character grows and matures. I definitely agree that OotP allowed him to develop into his own person and get out of Harry's (The Boy Who Lived) and Hermione's (The All-Knowing One) shadows.

[RChou]

He also respects other people's freedom to make choices. If you look closely you'll notice that Hermione is usually trying to get people to behave in a proscribed way. She does it to the students and the teachers. Granted, her heart is almost always in the right place, but people do have the right to say, think and act in the way they see fit. Realizing and honoring this fact is the height of maturity. Put bluntly, people don't have to do what you want them to. Where some people think Ron is backing down or not being assertive, he's actually following his own beliefs: that people have a right to decide for themselves. He even does this at the expense of his comfort.
.


Amen. If I could put a finger on why Ron is my favorite character, that would be it.

Here's a new way to look at things:

Instead of Hermione keeping Ron's duties in check as a prefect, d'you think maybe Ron was made prefect to keep Hermione in check? Hermione does have sort of a fanaticism on things she thinks are right, including rules and SPEW.

[Tonks04]

You have a point there

[WeasleyIsOurKing]

Instead of Hermione keeping Ron's duties in check as a prefect, d'you think maybe Ron was made prefect to keep Hermione in check? Hermione does have sort of a fanaticism on things she thinks are right, including rules and SPEW.Hmmm... never thought of that! It's a workable theory - perhaps another one of Dumbledore's reasons for making Ron a prefect was the fact that he can distract Hermione from going overboard. :)

[Morgause]

Instead of Hermione keeping Ron's duties in check as a prefect, d'you think maybe Ron was made prefect to keep Hermione in check? Hermione does have sort of a fanaticism on things she thinks are right, including rules and SPEW.

Good point! I think Dumbledore definetly saw that they make a good team. :tu: They really do keep each other in check, being the opposite extremes as far as thier leadership skills are concerned. Ron is able to remind Hermione that sometimes you have to just let people learn from thier mistakes, just as Hermione is able to remind Ron that sometimes you just have to put your foot down! :)

[stormcat_5000]

Did anyone get an odd feeling when reading PS/SS about the circumstances Ron first meets Harry? Harry is All alone in an compartment, while all others are full. Ron comes in and asks If he could Sit with Harry as there is no room anywhere else,and then they become friends forever.

While Reading this Part I felt that it was almost too perfect! Ron enters Harry's life and Harry's life changes.
I felt that it was Harry's destiny to meet Ron.
Ron is very very Important ,Otherwise Harry would have met Hermione first and then Ron.

[stormcat_5000]

Also here is one very amusing thing I must share with you all .I was reading Fanfics and most of them avoid mentioning Ron's Owl results ,They discuss Harry's Results ,they discuss Hermiones Results but they dont mention Ron's results If there are some which do they Believe poor Ron Will just About Scape through ie he Will Have an extremly dismal Result!!

[tao]

I don´t know. He never had bad results before so why now. I hope he and Harry have managed their 7(?) OWLs OK.
I think they all, including Neville, must continue Potions! What´s life without potions? So they all must have done well in the potions OWL.

[sirius'swife]

oh aye
i wonder why everyone thinks ron will do dismally on his O.W.L's. he and harry usually do the same on all subjects- except DADA but that is to be expected really.
and im sure ron'll do fine. all that nagging from hermoine(bless her) will have paid off and both harry and ron will have done better than they have hoped. even in potions. cuz snape wasnt around to torture them into doing badly. but whether harry and co will get into N.E.W.T level Potions....legitimately, i dont know
i have my doubts regarding an O but we do have harry's extra point for the patronus to regard(and once again, however indirectly, james[prongs] ruins snape's perverse enjoyment of harry's failure...how enjoyable) but whether that will affect his Potions marks remains to be seen.
i reckon if someone asked her for a little hint regarding harry's O.W.L prospects on august 15th, she might be willing to tell us....a bit.

[stormcat_5000]

Hmm... just because Harry is suppose to be better than Ron in D.A.D.A ,Ron IS suppose to get an E? I mean Yes Harry is the best but does it really mean no one else will get an O?
Ron Will GET an O? He Is not of Harry's Level,But he is Good.

[burningphoenix]

I think Ron will get an O for his Defense Against the Dark Arts Owl.
In fact, I think all the members of the D.A. should get O's. After what Harry taught them, it's almost be hard not to :lol:.

And I agree. In book five (don't have it with me so I don't know the exact quote... but it's near the chapter [or in it] where Ron becomes prefect) doesn't Harry think to himself 'Was he expecting this... Ron being prefect... they got about the same marks... but Harry had done more... blah, blah'

So yes, Ron does get generally good marks, doesn't he? :)

[SeekerLynch]

Not nessesarily good marks; Harry only gets average marks.

[sirius'swife]

true that
my point was just that if harry can be expected to ace his exams then there is no reason why ron shouldnt
after all, ron is shown as being as good/bad/mediocre as harry at academics but for DADA
and stormcat_5000, no offence, but i had no idea what u were talking abt so if u could clear that up....

[Jessica6541]

Thats very good observation. I think that Ron might have to team up with Hary and Neville in order ot defeat the dark lord.

[stormcat_5000]

true that
my point was just that if harry can be expected to ace his exams then there is no reason why ron shouldnt
after all, ron is shown as being as good/bad/mediocre as harry at academics but for DADA
and stormcat_5000, no offence, but i had no idea what u were talking abt so if u could clear that up....


I had earlier mentoned that in most of the Fanfics Ron's OWL Results are Either not mentioned OR they are Highly Dismal.

So I was refering to the dismal Marks Expected

I Also read in a post that Ron will not get same marks as Harry as Ron is Not of the same Power level as Harry. so I was Reffering to that also

[Kimmetje]

I think that Ron will not get as many OWLs as Harry indeed as Harry is way higher in the magical HP revolution. Harry knows more magic than he himself knows about. I do think that Ron's OWLs will pass and he'd still be following the same classes as Harry.

I wonder how Harry did on his History of Magic OWL as he sort of bailed on that one...

[MagicianGirl]

I think that Ron will not get as many OWLs as Harry indeed as Harry is way higher in the magical HP revolution. Harry knows more magic than he himself knows about. I do think that Ron's OWLs will pass and he'd still be following the same classes as Harry.

I think that Harry and Ron will get almost the same number of OWLS. Their intelligence level are almost equal and Harry himself said that his marks are in the level of Ron's. The difference would be the practical test in DADA since Harry is in a league of his own in that subject but the others, I think that Ron and Harry's score will almost be similar.

[Morgause]

Well, Ron didn't seem too confident about the exams but that doesn't really say anything. I seem to remember that in PS Harry and Ron were both afraid that they'd fail everything but they ended up getting good marks! He certainly won't do as well as Hermione, but I think he'll do better than he expected. ;)

[sirius'swife]

I had earlier mentoned that in most of the Fanfics Ron's OWL Results are Either not mentioned OR they are Highly Dismal.

So I was refering to the dismal Marks Expected

I Also read in a post that Ron will not get same marks as Harry as Ron is Not of the same Power level as Harry. so I was Reffering to that also


well i dont read fanfics but im not at all surprised. but i will say that its not true.

[Flee From Death]

I actually think that Ron might get one more OWL than Harry: I don't think Harry passed his History of Magic exam.

Did anyone get an odd feeling when reading PS/SS about the circumstances Ron first meets Harry? Harry is All alone in an compartment, while all others are full. Ron comes in and asks If he could Sit with Harry as there is no room anywhere else,and then they become friends forever.

While Reading this Part I felt that it was almost too perfect! Ron enters Harry's life and Harry's life changes.
I felt that it was Harry's destiny to meet Ron.
Ron is very very Important ,Otherwise Harry would have met Hermione first and then Ron.

I hadn't actually thought of that before, stormcat, but after reading what you said I think you have a definite point. Harry needs Ron to calm him down, to stop him taking life to seriously and to stick by him in battle.

In many ways I think Ron is like Samwise in the LOTR: he's not the the brightest character, nor the most important but he's always there for Harry when he needs him. I could see Ron being exactly the kind of person who would never leave Harry's side and who would give up everything for him; he's the most loyal character in the book in my opinion. And I think that in time Ron will mature as Sam matured in LOTR.

Going back to the person who said that Ron had to be special to be in the battle (sorry I can't remember who you are) I don't think that's true. I've heard it said a lot that the soldiers who fought in WW2 were extraordinary; a very special generation. However I don't think that they were born any different to any other people, they were just forced through circumstances to become that way. What I mean is they weren't born special, they became special.

In the same way I think Ron is the "ordinary" character in the books; the everyman. But he's going to mature past that into Harry's strongest ally. He's beginning to develop tact and diplomacy and confidence and I think that come the final battle he'll be a huge help to Harry.

[stormcat_5000]

Going back to the person who said that Ron had to be special to be in the battle (sorry I can't remember who you are) I don't think that's true. I've heard it said a lot that the soldiers who fought in WW2 were extraordinary; a very special generation. However I don't think that they were born any different to any other people, they were just forced through circumstances to become that way. What I mean is they weren't born special, they became special.


The Person Was me!

I do believe that In a battle it is the survival of the fittest, and it is true! Ron is not exactly very fit magicaly.Look! people go to war for the sake of their country, their beliefs.but people also go blindly to war ,People go to war With a firm belief in their values & their belief, but they forget that the people against them also treasure their values wether they are right or wrong. So on the level of Loyalty and bavery war is fought amongst equals.Ron is Fiercely Loyal and extremly brave true, but the D.E's are loyal to Voldemort too.In a war to survive each Soldier finds something within himself that makes him special,that is the reason why Soldiers who come home are changed men due to war!
In a war one has to be clever and cautious to survive .When you are ambushed you fight!, but you dont go looking for the enemy when the enemy is not looking for you.

[sirius'swife]

and when has ron gone looking for his enemies when they arent looking for him? thats harry's speciality althogether
and yeah ur correct abt the survival of the fittest. but on that i have a few comments to make....
the loyalty of ron/hermoine and the DA and the order to harry is quite different from the loyalty(if u can call it that at all) that riddle commands from his DE.
harry's mates would willingly die for him, he neednt ask it of them, there neednt be a price to pay for not doing so and yet they would all die for harry- they'd die for the cause actually. the ppl on the good side, they'll die fighting for what they believe. but the DE are loyal to riddle out of a fear for him. they know that if they dont go all the way, there'll be hel* to pay so they carry out his wishes, due to fear. there is that difference, jk plays it out clearly. i wonder how it'll make a difference?
and while you do need to be clever and quick and agile to live through a war, it is great in itself to fight for what is right in the first place. if you chose not to slink away into a corner and wait for it all to blow over(of course with voldemort for terrible and powerful than ever, i doubt anyone can escape the war....but that is besides the point) but to fight and be willing to give up your life for what you think is right- that shows your bravery(a quality that jk places immense value on) and we've seen that bravery- a certain stoutness of heart, is what carries harry through. cuz magically there is no way harry can ever match upto riddle(even though harry'll grow more powerful) unless he's willing to go through all the transformations that LV has gone through. in the end, it was harry's heart, his ability to feel acutely, that rescued him in DoM and will coem to his aid always.
anywho, getting back to the point, ron's got plenty of heart(all the weasleys do- even percy) and he's willing to go the distance- i feel that is half the battle won. because, what is the point if you are clever and talented if you're a ninny and arent brave enough to risk anything?
post-ootp, i feel, is the coming of age for harry and his mates. he and ron will have to become mature men and hermoine and ginny and whoever else will be forced into becoming mature women. the war will force them to grow up. but purely for the story's sake....i think everyone, along with ron, will grow.
whether this means that they learn more hexes or whether they will learn what is truly important remains to be seen.
but there is more proof regarding one than the other.

[Flee From Death]

Sorry Stormcat, I should have checked to see who it was.

I do believe that In a battle it is the survival of the fittest, and it is true! Ron is not exactly very fit magicaly.

No, Ron isn't the best magically. But in war it isn't always survival of the fittest. Dumb luck comes into play, for example the death of Sirius. Ron was in that battle, as was Harry, and Sirius was much more experienced than either of them. Yet he was the one who died. It's sad, but in a war there is a lot of dumb luck. Thre were many many wizards who weren't as smart or as skilled as Lily and James, yet they were the one's to die. Why? Lily happenned to give birth to Harry. It could have been Neville, but luck was against them.

There's also the fact that the unfit aren't the ones who are systematically hunted down and killed, as Voldemort was doing with all the members of the old OotP.

In war being careful and cautious will help you survive, yes. But what helps you survive even more is not getting involved in the fighting in the first place. Yes, Ron will fight if Harry is, but no-one's going to be sending Harry to battle anytime soon (well in the next book, anyway). They'll be guarding him like crazy to keep him fit for the final battle. Ron may end up in that, but I don't think he'll be doing anything dangerous unless Harry is as well.

And when he is in a battle who knows if he'll survive. Yes you're much more likely to survive if you're special (think Dumbledore). And Ron isn't really. He's an adequate wizard but no more, not to mention young and inexperienced. If it comes down to strict Darwinism he won't survive. But there is such a thing as dumb luck, and as siriu'swife says he has plenty of courage. Whether or not he'll survive remains to be seen, but I think by the time the final battle rolls around he'll have at least been taught a few more hexes, etc. to help. He'll be nowhere as good as Dumbledore but we can hope that he'll be better than he was at the end of OotP. If he matures some more he might at least get better at staying out of trouble (ie not accioing a brain), and as you say, storcat, being more cautious would not hurt his chances.

Also sometimes you do have to go on the offensive; go looking for the enemy when he's not looking for you. At some point in every war you have to confront the enemy directly, and it's better to do it on your own terms than to wait for an ambush. You don't do it unnecessarily, but at some point you do have to do it. And that will probably be how the final battle takes place.

[stormcat_5000]

Hmm ok!

But what will happen if Ron has to duel an experienced Death Eater?How lucky will he get?Will Ron's Friends Keep Jumping In front of him to Shield him against curses?

Ron will have to Face atleast one D.E, what will he Do? will he Run? Will he take cover while his friends fight? NO he would fight! He would Duel! and he would have to be extremely lucky to come out it fine!

And if too much of Good fortune Shines upon a Character it ruins the Character as you associate the outcome, on basis of luck than valor or courage.

P.S It was Herbert Spencer who put forth the saying "Survival of the Fittest" in his theory of evolution of Society or social organism of the Functionalists AKA Evolutionism.
Charles Darwin used it to explain Evolution in Biologial Organism

[phoenix49]

But what will happen if Ron has to duel an experienced Death Eater?How lucky will he get?Will Ron's Friends Keep Jumping In front of him to Shield him against curses?

What will happen if Harry has to duel an experienced death eater? Same question to me.

You are giving too much credits to "Ron's Friends". Actually, Ron is not worse than his friends. Like them, he needs luck to survive. Neither Harry nor Ron can face a skilled D.E. What will save them and saved them already (including Harry, no matter how most people are overestimating him) is luck and skills (luck mostly :tu: ). Anyway I think that Ron might have already faced a D.E. in OoP. I'm not sure how good he was but we know he got hit by some weird curse that made him act like if he had smoked a bit too much.

[Alci]

Ron is not worse than his friends.You seem to be forgetting (Bk3) Ron did worse than Hr in the DADA exam, just as he kept failing to use a disarming spell against her in DA (Bk5). Unless Ron intends to trip up and knock DEs wands out of their hands. :) As other members of DA seem to have similar or better success at this task, it suggests Ron is at best average in skills let alone able.

is luck and skills (luck mostly :tu: )Often it's been instinct, which is different from skill and luck. Harry has an innate ability that none of his friends have or more crucially can learn.

cuz magically there is no way harry can ever match upto riddle(even though harry'll grow more powerful) unless he's willing to go through all the transformations that LV has gone through.There is no basis for this claim. We know Dumbledore is of similar ability yet has not had to go through the changes you describe.

I think that Harry and Ron will get almost the same number of OWLS. Their intelligence level are almost equal and Harry himself said that his marks are in the level of Ron's.IIRC, Ron's charms are mentioned more than once as being poor. (See bk1,bk5) Its may be that JR gives them similar marks - bar DADA - though I'm bound to say that with the distractions in Harry's life I hardly think they will be a fair reflection on his ability.

[destructo girl]

My boyfriend is convinced that Ron will, at some point, turn on Harry. He thinks it's obvious. I am not sure however I would not be surprised if he does. I do think Hermoine and Ron will hook up in the future, how can they not? They have soooo much chemistry now.

[Morgause]

You seem to be forgetting (Bk3) Ron did worse than Hr in the DADA exam, just as he kept failing to use a disarming spell against her in DA (Bk5). Unless Ron intends to trip up and knock DEs wands out of their hands. :) As other members of DA seem to have similar or better success at this task, it suggests Ron is at best average in skills let alone able

I don't think you can really use the characters' performance in class as an indication of how they'd match up in a duel against a DE. First of all, any kid who's still in school would be no match for an experienced dark wizard (as we saw in OotP). Second of all, the skills involved aren't quite the same. Look at Hermione - she's really smart and is an asset in some situations, but she's not so good when it comes to thinking quickly and acting on instinct. While we haven't really seen Ron do any fighting, we know that he's good at chess and quidditch, both of which involve strategy and quick thinking.

[RChou]

IIRC, Ron's charms are mentioned more than once as being poor. (See bk1,bk5) Its may be that JR gives them similar marks - bar DADA - though I'm bound to say that with the distractions in Harry's life I hardly think they will be a fair reflection on his ability.


OotP when Harry and Ron were trying to summon up legs for their teacups. Both were equally abysmal. Ron did conjure the levitation spell against the troll, perhaps a little fortitude under pressure? I agree with the above post about Hermione being much more academically talented but a little less practical. Remember she was knocked out pretty quickly in PoA.

[tao]

:rotfl: RChou, you´re sig kills me! I don´t think you´re an H/H shipper, eh. :evil:

Would be good to say something on topic as well, hm.
I think Ron is good in fights, although we haven´t seen him very often. A good example is the Troll in PS.
We have to remember, even if Harry is the best fighter and Hermione is the cleverest student, Ron could still be the second best in both = very good. (I really don´t think he is the second best student)
Even if Ron is the funniest of the 3, Harry still has a great sense of humor, if you know what I mean.

[Alci]

First of all, any kid who's still in school would be no match for an experienced dark wizard (as we saw in OotP). Have we though? Harry (and JKR made quite a lot of this in the final chapter BK5) has escaped Voldy more times than either his parents or Neviles'. At some point it can't all be explained away as just 'luck' or 'help'.

Look at Hermione - she's really smart and is an asset in some situations, but she's not so good when it comes to thinking quickly and acting on instinct. While we haven't really seen Ron do any fighting, we know that he's good at chess and quidditch, both of which involve strategy and quick thinking. I totally agree with you on Hr's skills, though by your own logic Ron has already failed. His disasters in Quidditch have been his nerves, when being watched, not his actual ability. Now of course Ron may yet prove himself. That said I tend to dislike events when everyone gets to triumph. Everyone can't be a winner; it makes lousy fiction!

OotP when Harry and Ron were trying to summon up legs for their teacups. Both were equally abysmal. I was thinking of:

On the whole, Harry thought it went rather well. His Levitation Charm was certainly much better than Malfoy's had been, though he wished he had not mixed up the incantations for Colour Change and Growth Charms, so that the rat he was supposed to be turning orange swelled shockingly and was the size of a badger before Harry could rectify his mistake...Ron had caused a dinner plate to mutate into a large mushroom and had no idea how it had happened. Harry makes a mistake but corrects himself, Ron doesn't even know what he did wrong.

P.S., I don't buy into Destructo Girl's conclusion, re: betrayal, nevertheless it's interesting how similar the relationship between wormtail/james/sirius and Ron/Harry/hermione. Both Ron/wormtail want the success and skills of their friends.

[illtakethesubwa]

Why shouldn't Ron get as many OWLS as Harry? Sure, Harry may get a better DADA then Ron, but, Ron surprised us by becoming a prefect, so...who knows (oh, right, JK does...)
I have faith in Ron...after all, he at least finished his History of Magic exam. Maybe Hermione's urging him to study paid off.

[Alci]

Ron surprised us by becoming a prefect, so...who knows (oh, right, JK does...)Your mean apart from the obvious literary device of making Ron a prefect just to show Harry's jealousy and later his revulsion of his own behaviour?

Ignoring the above, I'm not sure its a helpful pro-Ron point that he achieves only by the enforced absence of a better (?) rival.

[sirius'swife]

well dumbledore would've given the prefectship to harry, yes. but why ron? why not dean or seamus or whoever? harry'd still have felt hard done by. maybe not as much as perhaps seeing ur best mate get it,yes but he could've felt jealousy with anyone else too.
moody said dumbledore reckons ron can handle most curses as authority figures always attract trouble. whether dumbledore believes this or not, moody reckons this to be the case, and his opinion is nothing to be sneezed at. and just cuz he wasnt the first choice, doesnt mean that he isnt the better choice.

[DayVirgo]

Why shouldn't Ron get as many OWLS as Harry? Sure, Harry may get a better DADA then Ron, but, Ron surprised us by becoming a prefect, so...who knows (oh, right, JK does...)
I have faith in Ron...after all, he at least finished his History of Magic exam. Maybe Hermione's urging him to study paid off.

I agree. We are also always reminded that Ron and Harry are pretty much equal in terms of their academic skill. I also have faith in Ron. I don't see him become Head Boy or anything (that seems more like a role for Harry . . . or maybe even Nevile if he develops more of a backbone). I can definately see him being Quidditch captain.

[Morgause]

Have we though? Harry (and JKR made quite a lot of this in the final chapter BK5) has escaped Voldy more times than either his parents or Neviles'. At some point it can't all be explained away as just 'luck' or 'help'.

Harry has never fought Voldemort or a DE without help. In every book thus far Dumbledore has come to his aid at the last minute, except for GoF when he had his parents help (and the luck of the whole wand connection). Yeah, Harry is better than any of his classmates, but he's not yet up to the standard of a fully qualified wizard.

I totally agree with you on Hr's skills, though by your own logic Ron has already failed. His disasters in Quidditch have been his nerves, when being watched, not his actual ability. Now of course Ron may yet prove himself. That said I tend to dislike events when everyone gets to triumph. Everyone can't be a winner; it makes lousy fiction!

Yes, but there's a big difference between getting nervous because people are watching you and getting nervous because of a dangerous situation.

[Sirius Black]

This thread is not totally on topic, anyways, I think he'll be a good quidditch player and perhaps even captain. I think he'll get Hermione and maybe in book seven, he might die because Jkr's been granting him soo many things, seems like she's fulfilling his wishes before he dies.

[Picko]

moody said dumbledore reckons ron can handle most curses as authority figures always attract trouble. whether dumbledore believes this or not, moody reckons this to be the case, and his opinion is nothing to be sneezed at. and just cuz he wasnt the first choice, doesnt mean that he isnt the better choice.

As much as I like Moody some of the things he says has to be taken with a small grain of salt and one of those is that comment he made about Ron being a Prefect :D

[sirius'swife]

As much as I like Moody some of the things he says has to be taken with a small grain of salt and one of those is that comment he made about Ron being a Prefect :D
and why would that be?
not trying to be offensive but moody is paranoid cuz he's seen what he's seen and so far, he's never said one thing that is questionable. and he is seasoned in war and catching dark wizards and by the looks of him, he is also seasoned in copping quite a few curses himself- so he knows what he's talking abt. and if he reckons ron can handle it, then we should trust him

[Picko]

and why would that be?
not trying to be offensive but moody is paranoid cuz he's seen what he's seen and so far, he's never said one thing that is questionable. and he is seasoned in war and catching dark wizards and by the looks of him, he is also seasoned in copping quite a few curses himself- so he knows what he's talking abt. and if he reckons ron can handle it, then we should trust him

Because what he was saying is largely irrelevant. Prefects don't get randomly attacked in their position - they don't appear to attract trouble or have to deal with surviving most curses. It quite simply rarely if ever happens - can you really imagine Dumbledore sitting down and thinking "Well we can't have Harry but it looks like Ron can handle the inevitable barrage of curses that'll come his way as an authority figure"?

[sirius'swife]

Because what he was saying is largely irrelevant. Prefects don't get randomly attacked in their position - they don't appear to attract trouble or have to deal with surviving most curses. It quite simply rarely if ever happens - can you really imagine Dumbledore sitting down and thinking "Well we can't have Harry but it looks like Ron can handle the inevitable barrage of curses that'll come his way as an authority figure"?
yes actually i can imagine it. its wartime mate, they need ppl in authority positions that can handle themselves- but in the larger scheme of things, a prefect's power is really nothing.
BUT, so dumbledore decides not to give it to harry, but he simply can't let the gryffindor prefectship slide by giving it to an incompetent blundering fool. if pity and absence of the first choice was all dumbledore had on his mind, neville would have been gryffindor prefect.
and yes, usually prefects wouldnt get attacked, but dumbledore knew umbridge, with full ministry backing was coming to hogwarts, so he would have with all his wisdom, foreseen that she was likely to start something.
and besides, moody didnt mean it literally, he meant that ron was chosen cuz dumbledore reckons he can handle himself.

[Alci]

Yes, but there's a big difference between getting nervous because people are watching you and getting nervous because of a dangerous situation.
Really? Both are the ability to respond to stressful situations, with a clear and calm head, without becoming overwhelmed by the distractions around you.

There are some very interesting studies, which are not really appropriate here, looking at why some people respond well to a disaster (fire,car crash etc) where others freeze. In many respects it would be interesting to hear more about Luna's skills, as she seems to have an almost ideal detachment from events.

As to prefects. I find the idea that DD really sees them as some first line of defence against the MoM a little far fetched.

[sirius'swife]

As to prefects. I find the idea that DD really sees them as some first line of defence against the MoM a little far fetched.
i suppose i had better respond to this. i dont know who ur talking to, but let me just say that noone suggested(least of all me) that prefects were going to save the world. i did suggest however that moody's statements, what you would call his way of saying- 'you're okay kid' to ron, isnt something to be ignored. there's no 'grain of salt' abt it. i feel that moody's one of the hp ppl that you can take at face-value when he says something. he has no reason to say that, at that point, noone asked him for his opinion, and he hasnt shown any bias towards ron at all. so when he says that he thinks dumbledore reckons ron can handle himself, im going to be happy for ron. once again dumbledore wasnt planning on disbanding the Order and handing over the reigns to the prefects, BUT at times like these(love that song btw) he wouldnt have chosen an idiot who can't....if push comes to shove....deal.

[DragonBlk17]

Harry has never fought Voldemort or a DE without help. In every book thus far Dumbledore has come to his aid at the last minute, except for GoF when he had his parents help (and the luck of the whole wand connection). Yeah, Harry is better than any of his classmates, but he's not yet up to the standard of a fully qualified wizard.



Yes, but there's a big difference between getting nervous because people are watching you and getting nervous because of a dangerous situation.

Morgause is right Harry has been helped in all the books.

SS: Ron and Hermione
CoS:Sorting Hat/Fawkes
PoA:James as the patronus
GoF: someone help me out on this one and
OotP:The DA

[siriusdenial924]

i definetly think ron will end up with hermione all the constant bickering you just kno that they will end up with each other

[DayVirgo]

GoF: someone help me out on this one

I think the best would be Cedric and all of the dead people that came out of Voldemort's wand.

[tao]

Yes, he only survived because of the brother wand thing. That was not winning a fight. That was luck or rather destiny.
But in PoA he had no help for the patronus. That was not really Prongs that was just Harrys Patronus. Or did I miss something?

What has that to do with Ron in book 6? Erm... Ron will help Harry in book 6???
I actually think Ron will be more important in the fight in book7. Next book we will see more privat life stuff about Ron like Quittich, Hermione, a fall out with Harry and loosing a family member. The last is of course also war related.

[JDR237]

i definetly think ron will end up with hermione all the constant bickering you just kno that they will end up with each other


It's more than just the bickering; Harry has noted how they remind him of MR and Mrs Weasley, and remember Hermoine telling Harry he was worse than Ron (when it came to girls, they were discussing Cho) then she said "well your not"; and remember the Yule Ball, Ron was jeolous, and Hermoine told him he should know what to do the next time...I never have seen anything but these two will get together.

Yes, he only survived because of the brother wand thing. That was not winning a fight. That was luck or rather destiny.
But in PoA he had no help for the patronus. That was not really Prongs that was just Harrys Patronus. Or did I miss something?

What has that to do with Ron in book 6? Erm... Ron will help Harry in book 6???
I actually think Ron will be more important in the fight in book7. Next book we will see more privat life stuff about Ron like Quittich, Hermione, a fall out with Harry and loosing a family member. The last is of course also war related.


Do you think Harry and Ron will have anotehr fallout? Maybe over who will be team captain, but I don't know if JKR will have them fallout again...but I do think Ron will be made Captain b/c of their winning ofthe Cup, and how he saw himself in the mirror of erised.

[Lord Nicholai]

Rons been there a year...hed never be made captain!

[lumosmaximas]

This thread is not totally on topic, anyways, I think he'll be a good quidditch player and perhaps even captain. I think he'll get Hermione and maybe in book seven, he might die because Jkr's been granting him soo many things, seems like she's fulfilling his wishes before he dies.
i think ur right because that does make sense, but then that probably means hermione is going to die to.

[tao]

Do you think Harry and Ron will have anotehr fallout? Maybe over who will be team captain, but I don't know if JKR will have them fallout again...but I do think Ron will be made Captain b/c of their winning ofthe Cup, and how he saw himself in the mirror of erised.
I´m not sure(was just a possibility), but I agree if they had a fallout it would probably be about Quittich. I also think he will be captain.
Harry and this chaser (if she is still in Hogwarts) would have the older rights but maybe they both don´t want the job. Harry would be a bad choice anyway. All he wants to do is seeking his snitch, I don´t think he knows as much about the other positions as Ron. The chaser would be a little boring, wouldn´t she. Another unimportant girl as new captain, we had that last year. (And we knew Angelina better from GoF for example)
So I think Ron has to be the new captain and I´m looking forward to it.

[sirius'swife]

i kind of agree tao(and i love ur name). i think this book- with all the things that has been dealt to harry, i think this book will be about building new relationships(im not on abt romance) and consolidating existing ones. and if that means harry letting it rip at ron and ron coming back just as strongly, driving hermoine batty and finally realizing that they are stronger and better together then yes perhaps they will have another misunderstanding.
i dont think its abt quidditch or girls though- its going to be something more meaningful. like ron doesnt like how harry's dealing with things or ron makes a comment(without having the information abt the prophecy) that harry takes exception to.
in this book, harry is new to the stunning kind of grief he's feeling. he doesnt know how to react and the prophecy is a big secret he's had to hide, so i think harry's going to highly strung and that might result in him yelling at possibly ron- funny thing is, i can see ron letting him do just that, hoping it'll make him feel better. it does- but not in the long run.
even after saying what ive said, i think harry will be a lot more sedate this year, he'll mope a lot. but his loss of sirius has quietened him- his rants last year, were maybe justified, but to a small degree immature, and in this book, i dont think he'll care much to make a fuss
but still- harry will contemplate all his relationships in this book i think( i hope rather) and for ron and everyone else, the war will truly hit home, so they will all have to question the reason they are there and why they will continue to stay
should be a fascinating read.

[no1 potter fan]

Harry is the Main character though Ron is just help.

[sirius'swife]

Harry is the Main character though Ron is just help.
NO! really?
sorry i had to say that
i will just say to this....so is everyone else mate. dumbledore, lupin, hermoine, ron, every single person is just a character in harry's world that jk's created. we're simply discussing abt these characters in depth cuz while harry is undoubtedly the centre of things,the other characters are also well developed...enough for us to have passionate convictions abt them.