The REAL Petunia Dursley and Prof Snape!

[traveltj]

Book 5 gave me two items that I believe will be revealed in Book 6.
One thing that has always been curious is WHY did the Dursleys take Harry in? They could have put him in an orphanage. It is pure and simple guilt! I think Petunia had to because she was an indirect participant to Lily and James' death.

One thing I think we will find out is that Lily was a witch that attended Hogwarts. I think we will find out that when Lily came to the school she was prettier, more popular and a better witch than her sister. And to add insult to injury the boy she had a crush on (James Potter) was in love with her sister and did not even give her the time of day.

I think Prof Snape was secretly in love with Lily (halfblood though she was). I think he played on Petunia's jealousy of her sister and his hatred for James and enticed Petunia to become a Death Eater. He probably made it sound very cool to join "You-Know-Who". He probaly told Petunia they could get even with James and Lily for snubbing them and thinking they were better than anyone else by joining "You-Know Who". Petunia and Prof Snape had no idea of what the real plans of "You-Know-Who" was for James and Lily. The Dark Lord used them to set up the murder of James and Lily.

When Petunia and Prof Snape realized that they had been used as pawns in the murder of Lily and James they wanted out of the Death Eaters. The Dark Lord threatned their painful death if they betrayed him.
So they went to Prof Dumbledore for help. Dumbeldore promised to protect them both for a price. The price Snape had to pay was his allegiance to The Order of the Phoenix and Dumbledore. Dumbledore felt that Petunia was more at fault and told her for that for protection she had to denounce being a witch, turn in her wand and care for Harry until he turned 18.

This is why Petunia new about the Dementors. This is also why she was so angry and bitter against the wizarding world. She will always feel responsible for her sister's death but at the same time still holds a grudge of jealousy. She probaly did not want to marry Vernon but had no other choices. She probably sees so much of Lily and James in Harry that it is a constant reminder of her betrayal. Also, Dudley is probaly an embarrasment to her but she wants to use Dudley to make Harry miserable. It is the only way she can release the frustration she has for her life as a Muggle.

Can't wait to read the responses!

[lupe]

hmm that's a reasonable theory.i do think that petunia use to be a witch but she got expelled or something but your theory sounds better.I like it.it makes sense.

[ViperGuy]

I really like your theory, mine was similar, but not that good.

[The_5th_Marauder]

"One thing I think we will find out is that Lily was a witch that attended Hogwarts."

Assuming you meant Petunia, this is a good point. It could be possible... However, I seem to dub this possibility unlikely. It wouldn't fit the story. JK is good at this kind of twist.. But.. It just would take something away from the fun of Harry's summer if he knew his Aunt, whom so whole-heartidly hated him, was a witch.

Again, good theory, possibly, but... unlikely.

[Rane]

One of the problems with assuming Petunia went to Hogwarts is that I would assume McGonegal would have known her then. But, in book 1, she talks to Dumbledore about having watched "the people who live here". She said you couldn't find two people who are less like us. She didn't sound like she knew Petunia.

[Arissya_00]

:welcome: to the boards!!! Now let me put my 2 cents in.
I'm sorry, but I do not support this theory. JK just does not include things that are too far-fetched in her books. First of all, I believe that the most important clue is that on the night of Voldemort's return, he walks around the Death Eaters, and he passes some in silence, but the ones that are either pivotal to the plot or are well-know (i.e. Malfoy, Lestranges, etc.) he acknowledges them. Now, out of all the Death Eaters, six are dead, one has fleed, and another has left him forever. Unless I am mistaken, Voldemort says, " HE will be killed, of course". He, not she. Notice that, Voldemort acknowledges EVERY Death Eater not present and gives the cause.
Next of all, you say that Dumbledore took away Petunia's wand because she was so ashamed. This is highly unlikely; a wizard/witch's wand is only confiscated if they have committed some terrible crime. Furthermore, I believe, considering the personality of Dumbledore, he is fairly unlikely to do something like this.
Third of all, the books have made it clear the reason of Lily and James's death has NOTHING to do with Petunia or Snape. Peter Pettigrew betrayed them.
Fourth of all, is the way Petunia and Snape treats him. If Petunia so regretted it and thought it was her fault, why does she treat him like dirt? She obviously still remembers the attention her sister got and never forgot.Furthermore, sometimes, without intending to, and perhaps it is possible, witches and wizards have done wandless magic. We don't see any thing fishy going on with her. And what about Snape? Have we ever seen him be fair to Harry? No. He, too, did not let go of the grudge.
Fifth of all, Dumbledore referes to the Dursleys as Muggles. In Book 5, he told Harry the whole truth about the prophecy and stuff, and if Petunia was a witch Harry would be informed, and there is no need to keep any other things from him, considering now Dumbledore regards Harry mature enough to learn the truth about things about his past and more.
Sixth of all, why did the Dursleys take Harry in? If you have read Book 5, it is mentioned absolutely clearly and plainly it is because it would keep Harry alive. As spiteful Petunia Dursley is, she does have some sense. Whatever grudges she had against Lily or however she dislike Harry, she is not cruel enough to let him die.

[Sniffles4Snuffles]

I think your theory is possible, but I don't think Snape chose to be a Death Eater freely. I think Dumbledore may have asked him to be one, which might explain his extreme trust in Snape. But who knows with JKR anyway?

[lorna]

I have to admit for a minute I thought this was going to be a Snape/Petunia snog behind the greenhouse thing.
I think Arissya hit it on the head -- the Dursleys
have been described by everyone as muggles. Not
muggle/squib or muggle/witch.

[silver ink pot]

Um, if Petunia had ever been to Hogwarts, Professor McGonagall would be familiar with her. In the first book, she doesn't seem to know Petunia at all. :no:

Petunia, indeed, knows something about the Wizarding World, but we don't know how much yet. Even before the howler scene in OotP, Harry tells Petunia that Voldemort is back, and she seems to understand what he is talking about. It says something like, "for the first time Harry realized that Petunia really was his aunt." Something like that. She understands that Harry is in danger as well as Dudders. :scared:

Even thought they treat Harry so terribly, Petunia has taken care of him since he was a baby, after all. You can't take care of a child that long and not care at all what happens to him. Even if you are Petunia. And maybe she may yet redeem herself by saving him some other way that we can't even imagine. Or maybe she save Harry in order to save Dudley. ;)

I also don't think Snape was ever romantically involved with Petunia or Lily. The fact that his name is an anagram of Perseus Evans makes me think there is a step-brother/brother/ or cousin relationship. I have no real theory about it, except that Snape is somehow involved in protecting Harry. :agree:

[Fuchsia]

Arissya_00 got to what I was thinking when reading the first post.

The Dursleys took Harry in both to keep him alive and because they like to guilt trip people. What better way to think better of themselves than to be put upon by others? They constantly remind him of all that they do for him so they can feel good about themselves. As for showing him real kindness? Not at all.

Snape and Petunia are not at all the sort that would fraternise. Snape doesn't like dunderheads and Petunia is a visual person. She'd distrust his hook nose and greasy hair on the spot.

[Black Dog]

Book 5 gave me two items that I believe will be revealed in Book 6.
One thing that has always been curious is WHY did the Dursleys take Harry in? They could have put him in an orphanage. It is pure and simple guilt! I think Petunia had to because she was an indirect participant to Lily and James' death.

One thing I think we will find out is that Lily was a witch that attended Hogwarts. I think we will find out that when Lily came to the school she was prettier, more popular and a better witch than her sister. And to add insult to injury the boy she had a crush on (James Potter) was in love with her sister and did not even give her the time of day.

I think Prof Snape was secretly in love with Lily (halfblood though she was). I think he played on Petunia's jealousy of her sister and his hatred for James and enticed Petunia to become a Death Eater. He probably made it sound very cool to join "You-Know-Who". He probaly told Petunia they could get even with James and Lily for snubbing them and thinking they were better than anyone else by joining "You-Know Who". Petunia and Prof Snape had no idea of what the real plans of "You-Know-Who" was for James and Lily. The Dark Lord used them to set up the murder of James and Lily.

When Petunia and Prof Snape realized that they had been used as pawns in the murder of Lily and James they wanted out of the Death Eaters. The Dark Lord threatned their painful death if they betrayed him.
So they went to Prof Dumbledore for help. Dumbeldore promised to protect them both for a price. The price Snape had to pay was his allegiance to The Order of the Phoenix and Dumbledore. Dumbledore felt that Petunia was more at fault and told her for that for protection she had to denounce being a witch, turn in her wand and care for Harry until he turned 18.

This is why Petunia new about the Dementors. This is also why she was so angry and bitter against the wizarding world. She will always feel responsible for her sister's death but at the same time still holds a grudge of jealousy. She probaly did not want to marry Vernon but had no other choices. She probably sees so much of Lily and James in Harry that it is a constant reminder of her betrayal. Also, Dudley is probaly an embarrasment to her but she wants to use Dudley to make Harry miserable. It is the only way she can release the frustration she has for her life as a Muggle.

Can't wait to read the responses!



all i can say is....wow i'd have never thought of that :wow:

[Mumford Oxter]

Book 5 gave me two items that I believe will be revealed in Book 6.
One thing that has always been curious is WHY did the Dursleys take Harry in? They could have put him in an orphanage. It is pure and simple guilt! I think Petunia had to because she was an indirect participant to Lily and James' death.

One thing I think we will find out is that Lily was a witch that attended Hogwarts. I think we will find out that when Lily came to the school she was prettier, more popular and a better witch than her sister. And to add insult to injury the boy she had a crush on (James Potter) was in love with her sister and did not even give her the time of day.

I think Prof Snape was secretly in love with Lily (halfblood though she was). I think he played on Petunia's jealousy of her sister and his hatred for James and enticed Petunia to become a Death Eater. He probably made it sound very cool to join "You-Know-Who". He probaly told Petunia they could get even with James and Lily for snubbing them and thinking they were better than anyone else by joining "You-Know Who". Petunia and Prof Snape had no idea of what the real plans of "You-Know-Who" was for James and Lily. The Dark Lord used them to set up the murder of James and Lily.

When Petunia and Prof Snape realized that they had been used as pawns in the murder of Lily and James they wanted out of the Death Eaters. The Dark Lord threatned their painful death if they betrayed him.
So they went to Prof Dumbledore for help. Dumbeldore promised to protect them both for a price. The price Snape had to pay was his allegiance to The Order of the Phoenix and Dumbledore. Dumbledore felt that Petunia was more at fault and told her for that for protection she had to denounce being a witch, turn in her wand and care for Harry until he turned 18.

This is why Petunia new about the Dementors. This is also why she was so angry and bitter against the wizarding world. She will always feel responsible for her sister's death but at the same time still holds a grudge of jealousy. She probaly did not want to marry Vernon but had no other choices. She probably sees so much of Lily and James in Harry that it is a constant reminder of her betrayal. Also, Dudley is probaly an embarrasment to her but she wants to use Dudley to make Harry miserable. It is the only way she can release the frustration she has for her life as a Muggle.

Can't wait to read the responses!

Hagrid said, "They should throw me out of Hogwarts and make me live as a muggle." Do you suppose they do such things? Would the Ministry of Magic be able to take away a witch's powers. Oh yes, I suppose they could. But surely they couldn't modify ppl's memories--oh, wait they do that all the time. And if a witch or wizard either was forced or chose not to live in the wizarding world, wouldn't that person be, defacto a muggle. I mean, you can't have untrained wizards walking about using magic. of course, there was that glass that exploded in Aunt Marge's hand when she was insulting Petunia's family. Funny no one mentioned that as a violation of the decree for reasonable restriction of underage magic. Perhaps she has a firm grip.

Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus

[RedCape]

Also, Dudley is probaly an embarrasment to her but she wants to use Dudley to make Harry miserable. It is the only way she can release the frustration she has for her life as a Muggle.

Can't wait to read the responses!

Well, your whole idea is out there, but I suppose possible. Until you mention Dudley that is!

No way is she faking how she feels about Dudley! We've seen no hint of that. Children can tell these things. Harry would have sensed something at a young age and thus we would have known.

No, sorry to say, ickle Dudleykins is loved by his mother.

[pttrfanatic]

"I'm sorry, but I do not support this theory. JK just does not include things that are too far-fetched in her books. First of all, I believe that the most important clue is that on the night of Voldemort's return, he walks around the Death Eaters, and he passes some in silence, but the ones that are either pivotal to the plot or are well-know (i.e. Malfoy, Lestranges, etc.) he acknowledges them. Now, out of all the Death Eaters, six are dead, one has fleed, and another has left him forever. Unless I am mistaken, Voldemort says, " HE will be killed, of course". He, not she. Notice that, Voldemort acknowledges EVERY Death Eater not present and gives the cause.
Next of all, you say that Dumbledore took away Petunia's wand because she was so ashamed. This is highly unlikely; a wizard/witch's wand is only confiscated if they have committed some terrible crime. Furthermore, I believe, considering the personality of Dumbledore, he is fairly unlikely to do something like this.
Third of all, the books have made it clear the reason of Lily and James's death has NOTHING to do with Petunia or Snape. Peter Pettigrew betrayed them.
Fourth of all, is the way Petunia and Snape treats him. If Petunia so regretted it and thought it was her fault, why does she treat him like dirt? She obviously still remembers the attention her sister got and never forgot.Furthermore, sometimes, without intending to, and perhaps it is possible, witches and wizards have done wandless magic. We don't see any thing fishy going on with her. And what about Snape? Have we ever seen him be fair to Harry? No. He, too, did not let go of the grudge.
Fifth of all, Dumbledore referes to the Dursleys as Muggles. In Book 5, he told Harry the whole truth about the prophecy and stuff, and if Petunia was a witch Harry would be informed, and there is no need to keep any other things from him, considering now Dumbledore regards Harry mature enough to learn the truth about things about his past and more.
Sixth of all, why did the Dursleys take Harry in? If you have read Book 5, it is mentioned absolutely clearly and plainly it is because it would keep Harry alive. As spiteful Petunia Dursley is, she does have some sense. Whatever grudges she had against Lily or however she dislike Harry, she is not cruel enough to let him die."

i would just like to refute all this
first the death eaters with voldemort were only his most close and trusted there were many more than just that, and petunia may have been one of them
second DD may not have taken her wand away but the MoM may have broken it since she was a death eater
third The books have not made clear that Snape and Petunia had nothing to do with the potters deaths ur really really slow if u think that
all the books said was pettigrew betrayed them, there may have been others involved
fourth Petunia may treat him like that because he is a constant reminder of the magical world while she is stuck in the muggle world
fifrth DD didnt tell harry the whole prophecy everyone realized that
its obvious there is more to it, i cant believe anyone is dum enough to think he told him the whole prophecy
and even if he did, that doesnt mean hes going to immediately tell him about every other secret of the wizarding world

there im finish i proved everything that u said wrong u should really think more before u speak

i think ur theory is very good and creative by the way traveltj
there is a good possibility that may have touched on what is going to happen

[Arissya_00]

i would just like to refute all this
first the death eaters with voldemort were only his most close and trusted there were many more than just that, and petunia may have been one of them
Well, actually, this is wrong. This is a passage from GoF, American Version:
" The air was suddenly full of swishing cloaks... All of them hooded and masked. And one by one they moved foward...." Welcome Death Eaters, " said Voldemort quietly. " Thirteen years...Thirteen years since we last met... " I see you ALL, whole and healthy,.....
One of the men suddenly flung himself forward.... " Master!! Forgive me! Forgive us ALL!
Then Voldemort goes around this large circle of Death Eaters. Enough in this passage have proved that it was all the Death Eaters.
second DD may not have taken her wand away but the MoM may have broken it since she was a death eater
Good point there.
third The books have not made clear that Snape and Petunia had nothing to do with the potters deaths ur really really slow if u think that
Oh really? If you can't even give a good reason why Snape and Petunia were involved, better listen to the book. The books have made it clear that Lily and James were in hiding, made Pettigrew their secret-keeper, and got betrayed. Are you suggesting that maybe Petunia or Snape was their Secret-Keeper? Highly unlikely.
fourth Petunia may treat him like that because he is a constant reminder of the magical world while she is stuck in the muggle world
Then why does everyone refer to Petunia as "Muggle"?
fifrth DD didnt tell harry the whole prophecy everyone realized that
its obvious there is more to it, i cant believe anyone is dum enough to think he told him the whole prophecy
and even if he did, that doesnt mean hes going to immediately tell him about every other secret of the wizarding world
What is your proof that Dumbledore didn't tell Harry the whole prophecy? Did you even read Book 5? Dumbledore said that one of his biggest mistakes was NOT telling Harry the truth earlier, therefore causing much deaths. I never even said that Dumbledore would tell Harry all the secrets of the wizarding world, I merely said that Dumbledore would tell Harry things that were RELATED to the prophecy and him.

there im finish i proved everything that u said wrong u should really think more before u speak

I believe that the book states specifically WHY the Dursleys took Harry in. Its in the book, you can find it there.
And now, I present my arguments against you. Why do you emphasize I am wrong? You are not the author, therefore do not have evidence that I am wrong. I am not trying to be rude, but if you are familiar with the rules of this forum, its not really nice to call other people "slow" and dumb. So watch what you're typing next time.

[Oo bUMbLE bEE oO]

I truly think the Dursleys are Muggles. They never showed any interest in the paranormal. What I'm wondering is why they are so hostile to wizardry. It's hard to think that Petunia hates wizardry just cause she resents and was jealous of her sister.

[Fairydust]

Nice theory and all, but I don't think that's correct. For one thing, Petunia isn't and wasn't a witch. I can buy the whole Snape had a thing for Lily thing but I don't see Snape and Petunia in cahoots or anything or whatnot. I don't see how Snape could be thrown into the mix. it's a very nice theory though. :agree:

[voldies_counsellor]

I agree with Ayrissa. I think this theory is unlikely, although it was interesting to read.
There is no evidence as yet that Dumbledore did not reveal the full prophecy. People have questioned the "..." in the prophecy but it could well be general punctuation rather than an indication that there are words missing. We don't know either way for sure.
I'd also add that that I agree it's not very civil to refer to someone as slow or dumb because they disagree with your opinion.

[gred&forge4ever]

Well, the theory that is proposed does have some good points. I think that is is possilbe that Petunia was a witch at one point, but a DE? I can't imagine DD sending Harry to live witha DE, even if she is his aunt.

[Arissya_00]

Ok. Well, you know, the theory does really make sense, because I am rereading OotP for the third time, it does really fit in. However, like gred&forge said, I cannot imagine Dumbledore sending Harry to live with a former Death Eater. Hey, maybe Petunia is a squib or was a witch expelled or something, but I do not think she was a Death Eater.

[Ankou]

I think that your theory could hold some water. One thing I noticed after I went back and read the books again is that almost every year at Christmas, Harry recieves something from the Dursleys. Hogwarts, we know, is protected from muggles by magic. No postman would be able to deliver Harry his 50p (book 1), toothpick (book 2) or tissue (book 4) from the Dursleys. In CoS, Hedwig delivers Harry his toothpick. Even if it is just a toothpick, someone in that family is taking the time to acknowledge Hedwigs presence for Harry's sake. Someone in that family is giving Hedwig food and rest for the long journey from Hogwarts and back. I think that someone is Petunia.

[whizbang121]

Snape left Voldemort before the Potters were killed.

This may be good fanfic.
Please read the rules of the board concerning manners and spelling.

[Hammi]

Hmm...I've been reading a lot of theories like this, and I'm having a hard time accepting them. I really just don't think Petunia is/was a witch. I just think there is something there with her, but not that she is a witch. VERY VERY good point about Hedwig though, I never gave that a thought.

[schwarzendrache]

Hmm...I've been reading a lot of theories like this, and I'm having a hard time accepting them. I really just don't think Petunia is/was a witch. I just think there is something there with her, but not that she is a witch. VERY VERY good point about Hedwig though, I never gave that a thought.
Yeah, I think the theory could be possible, but Rane's counter-evidence (McGonagal) is too strong. If Petunia had enrolled in Hogwarts McGonagol would probably refer to it.
As for the Hedwig thing, perhaps she catches her own food when she's out in the wild- think, she'd once flew to England and back! I wouldn't be surprised if Petunia had some so far unmentioned tie to the wizarding world though.

[brian44]

Well Petunia can't be a Witch. Because that would make Dudley a Squib or Wizard, and since dudley can't see dementors, he can't be a Squib or Wizard.

[whizbang121]

And if Petunia had more that passing knowledge of dementors, she would have known to give Dudley chocolate to ease his symptoms.
===========-===============-===========


Originally Posted by Ankou
I think that your theory could hold some water. One thing I noticed after I went back and read the books again is that almost every year at Christmas, Harry recieves something from the Dursleys. Hogwarts, we know, is protected from muggles by magic. No postman would be able to deliver Harry his 50p (book 1), toothpick (book 2) or tissue (book 4) from the Dursleys. In CoS, Hedwig delivers Harry his toothpick. Even if it is just a toothpick, someone in that family is taking the time to acknowledge Hedwigs presence for Harry's sake. Someone in that family is giving Hedwig food and rest for the long journey from Hogwarts and back. I think that someone is Petunia.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't muggleborn students ever hear from home? There must be some kind of exception for this situation or kids like the Creavys and Hermione wouldn't have any contact with their families while they were in school.

This theory doesn't hold water. Remember Petunia's rant in book one when Hagrid came to get Harry on the island? About how pleased her parents were to have a witch in the family? Well, why was that a big deal if she was one, too? And on and on about Lily transforming stuff and what a freak she was.

From that speech I can't rule out that Petunia wasn't a squib, but it seems pretty clear she never was a witch.

[Fortescue]

From Petunia's rant in the Sorcerer's Stone, I think it's pretty clear that she wasn't a witch. That sounded pure and from the heart; I don't think she could have created such a convincing lie. Also, Petunia can't be a Squib because her parents were muggles. Lily was a muggle-born, so Petunia has to be a muggle-born. I know there are theories that Petunia was adopted, but then her blood wouldn't be of any refuge for Harry, and she would not have cared sending Harry out in the world after the dementor attack. Also, it's pretty obvious Petunia loves Dudley. She practically loves him to death. We've seen how she just waves away reports of him bullying people, how she mandates that he needs more food, not less, how she thinks he going for tea at his friends' houses. Voldemort hates muggles, and muggle-borns. He wouldn't accept Petunia as a Death Eater even if she was his last hope to conquering the world (well, maybe if she was his ONLY hope). He kills muggles for fun; why would he accept a muggle into the ranks of his Death Eaters. And even if Petunia was a witch, she would still be a "mudblood" by his terms. It's an interesting theory, but I doubt it is true because we would have had more clues by now.

[traveltj]

Well, actually, this is wrong. This is a passage from GoF, American Version:
" The air was suddenly full of swishing cloaks... All of them hooded and masked. And one by one they moved foward...." Welcome Death Eaters, " said Voldemort quietly. " Thirteen years...Thirteen years since we last met... " I see you ALL, whole and healthy,.....
One of the men suddenly flung himself forward.... " Master!! Forgive me! Forgive us ALL!
Then Voldemort goes around this large circle of Death Eaters. Enough in this passage have proved that it was all the Death Eaters.

Good point there.

Oh really? If you can't even give a good reason why Snape and Petunia were involved, better listen to the book. The books have made it clear that Lily and James were in hiding, made Pettigrew their secret-keeper, and got betrayed. Are you suggesting that maybe Petunia or Snape was their Secret-Keeper? Highly unlikely.

Then why does everyone refer to Petunia as "Muggle"?

What is your proof that Dumbledore didn't tell Harry the whole prophecy? Did you even read Book 5? Dumbledore said that one of his biggest mistakes was NOT telling Harry the truth earlier, therefore causing much deaths. I never even said that Dumbledore would tell Harry all the secrets of the wizarding world, I merely said that Dumbledore would tell Harry things that were RELATED to the prophecy and him.

I believe that the book states specifically WHY the Dursleys took Harry in. Its in the book, you can find it there.
And now, I present my arguments against you. Why do you emphasize I am wrong? You are not the author, therefore do not have evidence that I am wrong. I am not trying to be rude, but if you are familiar with the rules of this forum, its not really nice to call other people "slow" and dumb. So watch what you're typing next time.


You know the old saying? I may be dumb, but I'm not stupid! I appreciate you sticking up for me. This was my very 1st post anywhere! It took Harry Potter to get me to want to join in. Call me a rookie, but I am only a 1st year after all. I do not take any of the negative comments personally. They could have been only 5 years old and have not been taught manners yet. I will try and do better on any new submissions in the future. You remind me of Dumbeldore who is my hero. Thanks again! :)

[Floria]

I think that Petunia being forced to renounce being a witch is an interesting idea. It brings up the question of why she is not mentioned by anyone (as a witch) and how two sisters are muggle-born witches. If, in fact they are not muggle born (which would facilitate the other sibling theory, which leads to the Mark Evans theory) then why does Snape call Lilly a mudblood?

I also think that the collaboration thing is way off the mark, but very creative!

[mdoggy89]

Please, this is a nice theory, and as was said before, would make a good fanfic, but i think there is not enough evidence for it, and too much evidence against it, alot of which was said already and i don't want to waste your time. I also think this is not really JKR's "style."

[Gibs]

nice try on the theory :cool:

If Petunia was a wizard and a DE she would have a DE mark on her arm and Harry would have seen it by now.

[lilducky04]

This seems interesting except

in book 5 Lilly CLEARLY tell's James she doesn't like him as she sticks up for Snape

Lily doesn't look upset when Snape calls her a mudblood but more...surprised.

Petunia doesn't have the death eater's scar

Up until GoF Voldy didn't know snape wasn't going to join him. He didn't realize it unil he hadn't shown up to the graveyard.

I think there is something going on between Lilly and Snape though...some sort of close relationship. She retorted to him the way I do to my brother per say.
She blinked...said fine...and then added why don't you clean your pants snivellus. Obviously this was his WORST moment not because of James teasing him...we knew this was done WAY more often than that...but because it was the falling out between Snape and Lilly...we should look more into that...maybe she in turn accepted james's date offer as a way to spite Snape.

Maybe Petunia knows about wizard magic because she grew up around it her whole childhood life. Maybe she was born muggle unlike her sister. Whether you ARE something or not...if you life around it your whole life, you're going to know a lot about it. Also, things must have been explain in that letter that Dumbledore gave her...

[FawkesBox]

Interesting thoughts, but I am not sure that we have proof that Petunia does not have the dark mark on her arm- or another place for that matter. Just because we do not see it does not mean that it is not there!

[Marcy]

I can tell that you put a lot of thought into your theory...but as others have said, the evidence against it far outweighs any support. But then again I would have said you were crazy if you had suggested that Ron's pet murdered Harry's parents...so I guess you never really know!

[dorcasderr]

One thought: if Petunia had been found to be a Death Eater, she would be in Azkaban, not married to Vernon. I suppose from a readers point of view one might be as bad as the other, but Petunia actually seems not to MIND being married to Vernon...

[Floria]

One thought: if Petunia had been found to be a Death Eater, she would be in Azkaban, not married to Vernon. I suppose from a readers point of view one might be as bad as the other, but Petunia actually seems not to MIND being married to Vernon...

It's possible that she wouldn't have been sent to Azkaban on the condition that she take care of Harry....That is Dumbledore's "last" and what he reminded her of in the howler....

maybe not, but just a thought...

I'm all for Petunia being the person who manages to do magic late in life, who JK mentioned....I think Petunia is a squib....but that's just me....

[Kaonashi]

I think there is a possibility that Snape and Petunia may have met before thru Lily but I don't believe that she was ever a witch or a deatheater. i don'tthink that Dumbledore would ahve sent Harry to her house if she were an ex-Death Eater, renounced witch or not. She is a Muggle, plain and simple, until we find out otherwise.

[lilducky04]

i always thought Petunia might be a squib--but now im thinking, isn't that impossible? To be a squib you have to be non magic born to two magical parents, and considering that one of Lilly's parents was a muggle, wouldn't that make it impossible??

If that's not right...then what is the correct deffinition of a squib?

[Morgan LeFay]

I still think she's a squib and that's why she was so jealous about Lily being such a good witch.

[Kaonashi]

Weren't both Lilly's parents Muggles?

Ah, I guess we don't have that much information on them to tell. Bu tthen again, Hagrid mentions in SS that "some of the best witches and wizards are from a long line of muggles. Look at your Mum!" There's a possibility that the Evans family were magical at some point, but for some reason future generations were Squibs that were made aware of their magical heritage and who waited, generation after generation for the "witch" gene to come back. Which it did, with Lily. That would explain why her parents were so pleased, and why she got the lion's share of attention.

[rotsiepots]

It's impossible for Petunia to be a squib because both of her parents were Muggles. There's always the conspiracy theory that JKR is misleading us, but I don't really believe it.

I think it's quite obvious that Petunia didn't attend Hogwarts going by the sheer loathing and jealousy she displayed towards her parents' affection for Lily's "gift". Petunia also said her parents were so proud to have "a witch" in the family. Note the singular case.

I've never really been convinced by this theory and probably won't be...unless JKR starts doing some major backpedalling.

[padfootgrim]

its very plausible... and it would go with how jk rowling was surprised when a kid asked if snape would fall in love... :)

[herbertsandbach]

Maybe its simpler than that maybe Snape and Petunia did snog behind the Herbology sheds and it didn't work out thats why Petunia hates wizards.

[Grimsqueaker]

I think it would be really hard to not use magic at all if you were capable of doing so (it's so much easier), I really can't imagine Petunia being able to do magic all along and still marrying Vernon and living the way she does :sad:
even if she was jealous of Lillies' popularity.
Also if both sisters were magical than she wouln't have said 'my parents were so proud, we had a witch in the family' .Any clues as to who's older? I get the feeling Petunia is even though they don't say it. If that is true than Petunias' magical abilities would've manifested themselves by the time Lily got her hogwarts letter, but they obviously didn't :upset:
We do know, however, that it's very possible for 2 muggles to have more than one magical child (from Colin and Dennis Creavey), so it's a possibility.. probably not a very realistic one though.
I really, really think that there was a very large connection between Snape and Lily, (Most likely Mark Evans will answer a few questions on that front :scared:) But i doubt it's Petunia, i have no doubt she harbours some guilt but i don't think even she'd stoop to killing her own sister. She probably feels bad for treating Harry so horribly all these years. Hopefully.

[tk_ravenprime]

hi fellow fans
This has been the most interesting thread I have read today and since joining.
Ifind interesting is your theory of Dd having taken Petunia's wand. Some people in this thread have correctly stated that ONLY MoM could confiscate the wand (and breaking it) However, If Dd only "took" it, that doesnt mean "confiscated". In order to provide the protection around harry and dursely family he would take the wand (IF she actually received one) in order to avoid the temptation of doing magic and attract attention. That is why I think in Phx Fudge states "we have always monitored closely..." and when Mrs figg testifies "we have no record of a witch" and asks her to leave record of her parentage. It is clear that whatever Dd did to protect privet drive acts as a block against magical searches done by the ministry, to a point. Mr fletcher apparates into mrs figgs house and the neighborhood but no record of that is seen, and mrs figg clearly states that she is in contact with Dd. It might be possible that why the ministry clearly knows when harry does magic, or has magic done around him...he might be "lojacked"....hahaha.
Also, and slightly offf topic, From the show "charmed" we know witches can have their powers "bound". In LotR and HP that is why they break the wands and staff.
So I am left with agreeing about how Dd may have taken her wand. As for Snape and Petunia.....JKR will resolve that one.
Ps>>

[thinkpink38]

Book 5 gave me two items that I believe will be revealed in Book 6.
One thing that has always been curious is WHY did the Dursleys take Harry in? They could have put him in an orphanage. It is pure and simple guilt! I think Petunia had to because she was an indirect participant to Lily and James' death.

I thought the reason why the Dursleys took Harry, is because they had to. Because they are the only faimly he has, did'nt Dumbledore say something about their house being protected with power, and as long as Harry stays their he would be safe, Voldy wont be able to find him.

[codswallop]

the creevy brother are muggle born and both magical. persues evans and i usualy pretend (anagrams), a bit of misspelling but severus snape and petunia dursley make sense to me. The reason why McGonnagal did not recognize Petunia is the Fidelius charm as discribed in book three. "you could not even see them if you were peering through their drawing room window"?

[doge_elphias]

Book 5 gave me two items that I believe will be revealed in Book 6.
One thing that has always been curious is WHY did the Dursleys take Harry in? They could have put him in an orphanage. It is pure and simple guilt! I think Petunia had to because she was an indirect participant to Lily and James' death.

One thing I think we will find out is that Lily was a witch that attended Hogwarts. I think we will find out that when Lily came to the school she was prettier, more popular and a better witch than her sister. And to add insult to injury the boy she had a crush on (James Potter) was in love with her sister and did not even give her the time of day.

I think Prof Snape was secretly in love with Lily (halfblood though she was). I think he played on Petunia's jealousy of her sister and his hatred for James and enticed Petunia to become a Death Eater. He probably made it sound very cool to join "You-Know-Who". He probaly told Petunia they could get even with James and Lily for snubbing them and thinking they were better than anyone else by joining "You-Know Who". Petunia and Prof Snape had no idea of what the real plans of "You-Know-Who" was for James and Lily. The Dark Lord used them to set up the murder of James and Lily.

When Petunia and Prof Snape realized that they had been used as pawns in the murder of Lily and James they wanted out of the Death Eaters. The Dark Lord threatned their painful death if they betrayed him.
So they went to Prof Dumbledore for help. Dumbeldore promised to protect them both for a price. The price Snape had to pay was his allegiance to The Order of the Phoenix and Dumbledore. Dumbledore felt that Petunia was more at fault and told her for that for protection she had to denounce being a witch, turn in her wand and care for Harry until he turned 18.

This is why Petunia new about the Dementors. This is also why she was so angry and bitter against the wizarding world. She will always feel responsible for her sister's death but at the same time still holds a grudge of jealousy. She probaly did not want to marry Vernon but had no other choices. She probably sees so much of Lily and James in Harry that it is a constant reminder of her betrayal. Also, Dudley is probaly an embarrasment to her but she wants to use Dudley to make Harry miserable. It is the only way she can release the frustration she has for her life as a Muggle.

Can't wait to read the responses!

Well said. I do agree with you. But like somebody or two had said is it possible for Dumbledore to force Petunia to give up her magical abilities and wand. I think the wand part is possible but not the magical abilities. Also, how come Prof. McGonagall did not notice about Petunia if Petunia had attended Hogwarts together with her sister? Prof. McGonagall is watching the Dursely's house for the whole day.

I think Prof. Dumbledore might have pretend to force Petunia to drop her witch status. Prof. Dumbledore might have give her a fake wand to turn in. In this case, she could be an unregistered witch in disguise like Mrs Figg, the next door neighbour and a squib. Since Vernon hates wizards and witches, Petunia could not tell him. I doubt Lily, her sister, would have told her what dementors are since no one wants to talk about those dreadful things. The only way is she is witch and knew about the wizarding world. The rest of theory do make sense.

[Tane]

Good theory but no I can't see it happening that way, I feel Snape's induction with the Order had something to do with James because if James was responsible for saving Snape's life and at a cost to his own then Snape probably would take up James position within the Order due to a debt.

Dumbledore could have just intimidated Petunia into taking on Harry or offered whole protection and no doubt financial assistance as I doubt Vernon’s drill company could provide for Dudley let alone the whole family.

[Selkie]

One thing I think we will find out is that Lily was a witch that attended Hogwarts. I think we will find out that when Lily came to the school she was prettier, more popular and a better witch than her sister. And to add insult to injury the boy she had a crush on (James Potter) was in love with her sister and did not even give her the time of day.

Do you mean Petunia was a witch? I think Petunia was always a muggle, but I do agree that she was jealous of Lily being a witch, pretty and popular.

I think Prof Snape was secretly in love with Lily (halfblood though she was). I think he played on Petunia's jealousy of her sister and his hatred for James and enticed Petunia to become a Death Eater. He probably made it sound very cool to join "You-Know-Who". He probaly told Petunia they could get even with James and Lily for snubbing them and thinking they were better than anyone else by joining "You-Know Who". Petunia and Prof Snape had no idea of what the real plans of "You-Know-Who" was for James and Lily. The Dark Lord used them to set up the murder of James and Lily.

Peter Pettigrew was responsible for letting Voldemort murder James and Lily. He was their secret-keeper and he went to Voldemort with the information, I see no evidence that Petunia or Snape was involved



This is why Petunia new about the Dementors. This is also why she was so angry and bitter against the wizarding world. She will always feel responsible for her sister's death but at the same time still holds a grudge of jealousy.

Petunia probably knew about the wizarding world from Lily. I suspect she is angry and bitter because Lily was endowed with magical skills and she wasn't. I think that is why she is so vehemently against wizards - a sort of overcompensation or "the lady doth potest too much"

She probaly did not want to marry Vernon but had no other choices. She probably sees so much of Lily and James in Harry that it is a constant reminder of her betrayal. Also, Dudley is probaly an embarrasment to her but she wants to use Dudley to make Harry miserable. It is the only way she can release the frustration she has for her life as a Muggle.

Why would she marry Vernon against her will? Dudley and Harry are of an age so she would have been married before her sister and brother-in-law were killed. She didn't have to marry Vernon because of Harry. I agree she probably sees her sister and B-I-L in Harry and that probably sets of mixed emotions. He is a constant reminder of everything she isn't and wishes she could be, but on the other hand, Harry is her family and she is "upright" enough to know that she has a responsibility to him.

Can't wait to read the responses!

There you go! (for what it's worth) :)

[linzee4life]

Wow. You're theory is really creative and well thought out. I think that we are going to find out more about Pettunia and how she knows about the Magic World in the sixth book. I think that there is some reason for her knowing all that she knows and that we have barly hit the tip of the iceburg.

[Da_Chinkster]

I like the theory, however Petunia a death eater I can not see feasible as she would have had a mark on her arm which must have been picked up by HArry at some point. Petunia a witch isnt a bad idea, however a squib may be slightly more likely. Apart from that I reckon the rest of the theory could very well be true

[Fool]

I think Petunia is merely a case of terrible sibling rivalry. She felt pushed to the side by her parents, that Lily was the favored. And she was probably right. Lily was pretty, Petunia clearly wasn't. Lily had a gift that she never would. And from the sounds of things, Lily wasn't exactly trying to share the spotlight.

Petunia grew up knowing about the magic world through Lily. Lily would have been home for the summers, talking about and remaining in contact with the wizarding world. We know Petunia is a terrible gossip, and she would've listened to every little detail (that's how she knew what dementors were after all).

When she was older, she tried to block out the world she had grown to dispise through her jealous notions about Lily. I think when Harry was left on her door she had mixed feelings from both of her worlds. On the one hand she knew about Voldemort and that the boy would die without her, and on the other she worried what the neighbors would think when they found out they had abandoned their nephew. Furthermore if she and Vernon were successful in "squashing the magic out of him" it would be a sort of revenge for Petunia against the sister she always envied.

[saturdayschild]

Hello, I'm new to this. But I would like to respond to Traveltj and others here.

First, with the fact that it was mentioned from Book 1 when the Dursleys & Harry are with Hagrid on the island, Lily was the one who attended Hogwarts. I think it's clear that Petunia is a muggle to the full and she's proud of it. This is not a fact to be established since it has already been established. As Petunia says this she says this with such resentment. She resented Lily being so favored by the school and their parents, the Evans. She resented Lily coming home every summer, telling and showing what she had learned & accomplished. I think it would be quite logical that Lily must have mentioned things like the dementors & Azkaban, of which Petunia didn't forget for all those subsequent years. But for all the favoritism that their parents showed Lily that would have made Petunia quite bitter. I will agree that Petunia might have felt guilt eventually but for a different reason. I think that Petunia felt guilt because afterall Lily is a close blood relative and after she graduated from Hogwarts and got married, maybe she might have been able to feel that she should let bygones be bygones. She might have still hated the wizarding community but she still could have possibly forgave Lily since they're sisters, making blood thicker than water. And then upon hearing that Lily & James got killed by one of the most evil lords in the wizarding community, who has no regards for ordinary muggles, Petunia might have realized that everybody could be in trouble which strengthen her hatred of the wizarding community. Even though she may have forgiven her sister, she might have longed to tell her sister "I told you so!" But since she was unable to do this, she has taken it all out on Harry by trying to stamp out whatever wizarding tendencies he could potentially have.

Second: Professor Snape & Petunia have nothing to do with each other.
I think I sort of agree in that he may have had a secret crush on Lily despite the fact that she was a mudblood. He may have even have been ashamed of himself for feeling that way. On top of that there was the frustration of seeing Lily at first put James down and being critical of the things he & his gang did, then to see her become romantically involved with James. You add all of this to the fact that Snape hated James' arrogance and his sure-footedness, popular and was great athletically--everything that Snape could never hope to achieve for himself---jealousy to the core!! Now what exactly drove Snape to eventually become a Death Eater, I'm not sure about. I suspect that since it has been said that he was always into the dark arts and that he knew all of these curses, that might have been something to lure him to the dark lord. I guess also the fact that once Lily started going more and more to James and then those two joining the order of the Phoenix, out of sheer opposition, Snape went for the Death Eaters. The Death Eaters were full of people who were basically like him. They couldn't stand muggles or half-bloods which with Lily going the way she did, might have fueled that hatred of muggles all the more in Snape. Additionally, since Snape was always so unpopular, people thinking he was weird, it was probably a relief that he finally found people who were so like-minded. But I don't think he wanted to go into the killing and destruction that Voldemort wanted, so he eventually found his way out. He found Dumbledore, spilled his guts out to him and Dumbledore let him in, feeling fairly certain that Snape would not betray him. Personally I think Snape is a very pivotal character since there are many instances in which he vehemently disagrees with the decisions that Dumbledore makes. So it might be a matter of time before Snape could prove Dumbledore wrong. And just think, if he goes back to Voldemort, the latter would not so readily kill Snape since he would have so much information about Dumbledore and his practices. But like so many things about this fascinating series, this remains to be seen.

Third: Speaking of Dumbledore, I don't think Dumbledore is one to be so double-dealing as Traveltj has suggested. It's just not him. Dumbledore is much more honorable than that. There are too many things within the 5 books that demonstrates over and over again as to how honorable Dumbledore is. Again if you look at the very beginning of Book 1, McGonagall makes reference to the fact that Dumbledore knows about the dark arts but he is too noble to use them. There are lots of other things throughout the whole series.

Fourth: I am going to add something to this. I think that Sirius is not dead. I don't know what it was he went through when he went through that portal but it's the fact that both Harry & Luna have said that they were able to hear voices beyond that threshold. If whoever is behind there, in addition to Sirius, were really dead would anyone standing outside of that portal be able to hear any voices or anything else? I should think not. I don't know. Maybe I'm crazy or I 'm a wishful thinker, but I think that somehow Sirius is coming back. Also what else bolsters my argument is the fact that Nearly Headless Nick tells Harry that Sirius is not a ghost, Harry can't come in contact with him as he is able to do with Nick. Oh sure, he explains to Harry that many dead people accept being dead and move on to whatever destiny lies for them once being dead, for those who can't accept their death like Nick, they hang around to haught places. Well that could be one of two things, either Sirius's spirit has truly accept his fate or he isn't dead yet. I think Dumbledore is deliberately holding something back about Sirius since he doesn't want to get Harry's hopes to be too high. I think Dumbledore wants Harry to eventually discover this for himself and he'll supply the information as it becomes necessary.

Fifth and last: Beware of Umbridge. She might have been handily defeated by Hermione & Harry by making her get captured by the centaurs. At the end of book 5, she's all jittery and what-not. But eventually, I suspect, she will regain her mind and when she does, watch out!! I suspect she might join the Death Eaters this time because she will be determined to get even with Harry, Hermione, Dumbledore, McGonagall. So to put it shortly, Umbridge is down but she's not out.

As for Petunia being a witch, a squib, a Death Eater or anything magical, I think that's ridiculous. I think it's demonstrated that Petunia, like Lily, is a muggle--no magical blood in her. Lily learned how to become a witch and accepted their abilities. Petunia didn't. I think Harry's ability to do wandless magic had to be due to the wizard blood he got from James Potter who was of a wizard family. I wish j.k. rowling would give more information about the Potters.

[lupislune]

I don't see any evidence to support this theory.

The only thing that I buy is that I believe something more exists on the Snape / Lily relationship. I am not sure if it is love, though.

I also believe that there is more to Petunia, but I don't think Petunia and Snape are tied togehter.

[aggiefan1206]

I dont see how Petunia and Snape can really know each other unless Petunia is actually a witch. That is the only way i see it possible

[saturdayschild]

In response to Ankou about Hedwig. I think it's something to think about in regards to how Hedwig or any of the owls would get the message about going home to then bring Christmas gifts back to those students remaining at Hogwarts for the holidays. Is there some sort of telepathy that could be used to summon the birds to their respective homes? I'm not sure that's possible, not even in the wizarding community. As in my response to Traveltj, I feel absolutely sure that Petunia is not a witch in any form. But she knows what she knows from her sister since she has had to hear all the things Lily spoke of when she came home for the summer vacations. Now since she & Vernon don't allow Harry to speak of such things, she can't really hear anything further from Harry.

Here's what I think it is. Either in Book 1 or 2, it is mentioned that Prof. McGonagall goes around before the X-mas holidays to see who's staying versus who's going home. As a matter of fact it's in the beginning of chap. 12 of book 1 that it's mentioned. McGonagall goes around taking a list of those students who are staying at Hogwarts for X-mas. What I'm not clear on is whether she only does this for her Gryffindor students and the other house heads do the same thing for their respective students? Or being that McGonagall is the deputy headmistress, she goes to the whole school?
But I suspect that once she and/or the other house heads collects the names of those students planning to stay at Hogwarts for the Christmas season, she might send the owls for those students to their respective homes with notes explaining that these students are staying for Christmas and if there are any gifts to be sent, send them with the owls so they can be sorted out and then distributed on Christmas eve/day.

True, this is not really mentioned or stressed in the subsequent books but maybe jkr didn't feel that it was necessary to do so.

[Taelia]

This theory is wrong because JKR said that Petunia WASN'T a witch but there was more to ehr then meets the eye. She is not a whitch, and she cant be a DE because she's muggle-born.

[mynameisrene]

I think that this theory makes some sense, but it has a few holes in it. Firstly, why wouldn't DD have told Harry that Petunia was a witch if she ever had been? I think that he would have been up-front and honest with Harry and told him the truth.
Secondly, as many people have already said, Professor McGonagall didn't seem to have a clue who either of the Dursleys were in the first book.
Thirdly, do you really think that Snape and Petunia would create a conspiracy to kill the Potters? I don't believe that Petunia was ever a DE, which is proven in some of the passages in the books.
I like your theory, though, and I think that it would make a nice twist. However, some of the items mentioned are rather far-fetched. Good idea, though! :)

Pottrfanatic~ I respect your opinion as much as the next person, but I agree with what everyone else is saying about what you said. Calling someone dumb just because they disagree with you isn't the right way to go. You seem really passionate about your theories, and that's cool. However, sometimes we have to make room for other peoples' views and opinions and take our own down a few notches. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, but I just wanted to let you know about this.

[winter snow]

Book 5 gave me two items that I believe will be revealed in Book 6.
One thing that has always been curious is WHY did the Dursleys take Harry in? They could have put him in an orphanage. It is pure and simple guilt! I think Petunia had to because she was an indirect participant to Lily and James' death.

One thing I think we will find out is that Lily was a witch that attended Hogwarts. I think we will find out that when Lily came to the school she was prettier, more popular and a better witch than her sister. And to add insult to injury the boy she had a crush on (James Potter) was in love with her sister and did not even give her the time of day.

I think Prof Snape was secretly in love with Lily (halfblood though she was). I think he played on Petunia's jealousy of her sister and his hatred for James and enticed Petunia to become a Death Eater. He probably made it sound very cool to join "You-Know-Who". He probaly told Petunia they could get even with James and Lily for snubbing them and thinking they were better than anyone else by joining "You-Know Who". Petunia and Prof Snape had no idea of what the real plans of "You-Know-Who" was for James and Lily. The Dark Lord used them to set up the murder of James and Lily.

When Petunia and Prof Snape realized that they had been used as pawns in the murder of Lily and James they wanted out of the Death Eaters. The Dark Lord threatned their painful death if they betrayed him.
So they went to Prof Dumbledore for help. Dumbeldore promised to protect them both for a price. The price Snape had to pay was his allegiance to The Order of the Phoenix and Dumbledore. Dumbledore felt that Petunia was more at fault and told her for that for protection she had to denounce being a witch, turn in her wand and care for Harry until he turned 18.

This is why Petunia new about the Dementors. This is also why she was so angry and bitter against the wizarding world. She will always feel responsible for her sister's death but at the same time still holds a grudge of jealousy. She probaly did not want to marry Vernon but had no other choices. She probably sees so much of Lily and James in Harry that it is a constant reminder of her betrayal. Also, Dudley is probaly an embarrasment to her but she wants to use Dudley to make Harry miserable. It is the only way she can release the frustration she has for her life as a Muggle.

Can't wait to read the responses!

Okay, here's my take. The Dursley's took Harry in because he needed the blood protection of Aunt Petunia. It's stated in the books quite clearly. :)

Jo has stated that Petunia is a muggle but...; I propose that Petunia is actually the one who "comes into magic late in life". Petunia was jealous of Lily because of all the attention Lily got from their parents. This was a simple case of sibling rivalry.

I'm not sure Snape was in love with Lily. He did call her a mudblood. If you care about someone, you wouldn't call them such a horrible name. Of course, he could have just been covering up his embarassment at being defended by a girl by snapping at her. I'm just not sure about this scenario.

As for Lily being a Death Eater, I don't believe so. First of all, Dumbledore wouldn't put Harry in the care of a former Death Eater.
Petunia knows about Dementors because she overheard James and Lily talking about them on one of their vacations from Hogwarts.

I have a theory that Voldermort killed all of Harry's grandparents (on both sides) and that Petunia is afraid of him for this reason. The reaction she gave Harry when he told her that Voldermort was back seems to support this idea.

Petunia loves Dudley in a wholly abusive way, (why else would she allow him everything his heart desires? She's never taught self discipline which a loving mother would).

I think you put a lot of effort into this theory, I just don't think it's plausible. =)

[Marcy]

Very interesting theory...but Petunia was at home the day Harry was brought to her...she and Vernon had already had Dudley, who was one already. If this were the case, Petunia wouldn't have had time to denounce being a witch, and begin a normal life. Very creative, but also very unlikely!
Keep speculating! :tu:

[HermioneLuna]

Book 5 gave me two items that I believe will be revealed in Book 6.
One thing that has always been curious is WHY did the Dursleys take Harry in? They could have put him in an orphanage. It is pure and simple guilt! I think Petunia had to because she was an indirect participant to Lily and James' death.

One thing I think we will find out is that Lily was a witch that attended Hogwarts. I think we will find out that when Lily came to the school she was prettier, more popular and a better witch than her sister. And to add insult to injury the boy she had a crush on (James Potter) was in love with her sister and did not even give her the time of day.

Assuming you meant Petunia, there are some glaring faults in this theory. J.K. Rowling herself said that Petunia is a muggle. Not a witch, not a squib, a muggle. Muggles don't attend Hogwarts.

I think Prof Snape was secretly in love with Lily (halfblood though she was). I think he played on Petunia's jealousy of her sister and his hatred for James and enticed Petunia to become a Death Eater. He probably made it sound very cool to join "You-Know-Who". He probaly told Petunia they could get even with James and Lily for snubbing them and thinking they were better than anyone else by joining "You-Know Who". Petunia and Prof Snape had no idea of what the real plans of "You-Know-Who" was for James and Lily. The Dark Lord used them to set up the murder of James and Lily.

Lily was not a half-blood. She was a muggle-born. The rest of this portion of your theory rests on the assumption that Petunia is a witch, and she isn't.

When Petunia and Prof Snape realized that they had been used as pawns in the murder of Lily and James they wanted out of the Death Eaters. The Dark Lord threatned their painful death if they betrayed him.
So they went to Prof Dumbledore for help. Dumbeldore promised to protect them both for a price. The price Snape had to pay was his allegiance to The Order of the Phoenix and Dumbledore. Dumbledore felt that Petunia was more at fault and told her for that for protection she had to denounce being a witch, turn in her wand and care for Harry until he turned 18.

That is completely out of character for Dumbledore. He wouldn't just say "You have to be loyal to me or I'll hand you over to the ministry of magic." Dumbledore just doesn't work that way. He doesn't force people onto his side. And, as I've said, Petunia is just a muggle.

This is why Petunia new about the Dementors. This is also why she was so angry and bitter against the wizarding world. She will always feel responsible for her sister's death but at the same time still holds a grudge of jealousy. She probaly did not want to marry Vernon but had no other choices. She probably sees so much of Lily and James in Harry that it is a constant reminder of her betrayal. Also, Dudley is probaly an embarrasment to her but she wants to use Dudley to make Harry miserable. It is the only way she can release the frustration she has for her life as a Muggle.

Petunia knew about the dementors because she heard "that awful boy telling her about them" years before. If Petunia were constantly reminded of her betrayal and if she felt truly guilty she would treat Harry much better than she does. And I think it's clear that Petunia loves Dudley much more than Harry. I don't think she thinks of him as an embarrassment at all.

And also, Petuina is a muggle. That destroys your entire theory.

[saturdayschild]

to winter snow: i like your responses. but i have one question to ask you: don't you think it's possible to fall in love with someone, unwillingly? there might be a person that you can't stand for any number of reasons but you still feel yourself drawn to that person? well when you look at the young snape, i think it's possible that he could have unwillingly developed a crush for lily despite the fact that she's a muggle/mudblood. afterall, she was very good looking, lovely dark red hair/bright green eyes. despite being a wizard, that doesn't exactly remove him from being a human with the typical desires. so as i stated, he might have been ashamed of this crush toward her; even a bit disgusted with it which might have led him to calling her a mudblood the way he did.

maybe it might have been a bit of an immature side to snape in that point in his life. you know how it is with young boys when they might be attracted to girls. instead of showing affection a boy might say derogatory things to a girl or do some crazy, dumb things to her only to confess later on that it was his idiotic way for trying show the girl that he really liked her. perhaps that was one of snape's problems as well. he didn't really know how to deal with his affection or attraction to lily, plus his prejudice against muggles. so it became an easy out for him to insult her instead.

everything else you wrote, i agree with though. can't wait for book 6 to finally come out.

[winter snow]

to winter snow: i like your responses. but i have one question to ask you: don't you think it's possible to fall in love with someone, unwillingly? there might be a person that you can't stand for any number of reasons but you still feel yourself drawn to that person? well when you look at the young snape, i think it's possible that he could have unwillingly developed a crush for lily despite the fact that she's a muggle/mudblood. afterall, she was very good looking, lovely dark red hair/bright green eyes. despite being a wizard, that doesn't exactly remove him from being a human with the typical desires. so as i stated, he might have been ashamed of this crush toward her; even a bit disgusted with it which might have led him to calling her a mudblood the way he did.

maybe it might have been a bit of an immature side to snape in that point in his life. you know how it is with young boys when they might be attracted to girls. instead of showing affection a boy might say derogatory things to a girl or do some crazy, dumb things to her only to confess later on that it was his idiotic way for trying show the girl that he really liked her. perhaps that was one of snape's problems as well. he didn't really know how to deal with his affection or attraction to lily, plus his prejudice against muggles. so it became an easy out for him to insult her instead.

everything else you wrote, i agree with though. can't wait for book 6 to finally come out.

Welcome to the forums saturdayschild! I look forward t reading more of you posts!

I have to admit that I've never thought about it like that before. You've explained it beautifully and I can see your point. I can actually see it happening as a matter of fact. While I was reading your post, a thought occured to me. Given the horrible conditions that Snape grew up with, I doubt if he could express his emotions properly. Add to that the awkwardness of interacting with the opposite sex, and you have someone who can't express emotions in a positive way.

Snape is a pretty wounded character at times; look at how he deals with Harry. He can't move on from past transgressions against himself (the Marauders stupid prank).

So, yes I can see your point and you've given me a whole new way to think of Snape. I keep thinking of him as he is now, I keep forgetting he was once a frightened little boy cowering in the corner. He was also an inept teenager, just like a lot of us were. Thanks for opening my mind.

I can't wait for the 6th book either.

[leopardanimagus]

from jkr's site...
Is Aunt Petunia a Squib?

Good question. No, she is not, but—[Laughter]. No, she is not a Squib. She is a Muggle, but—[Laughter]. You will have to read the other books. You might have got the impression that there is a little bit more to Aunt Petunia than meets the eye, and you will find out what it is. She is not a squib, although that is a very good guess. Oh, I am giving a lot away here. I am being shockingly indiscreet.

If Petunia is not a witch, not a squib then what? almightily jealous?

Is there any kind of muggle equivalant of a squib?

Or, what would happen if a muggle did have magic but was repressing it..

[Manwë]

Petunia a witch? I don't think this can be posible, but talking about JK's writing, you never know... Anyway, Petunia wouldn't need to be a witch to be jealous from Lily... I would be really jealous if my sister (stupid theory: I'm an only child) suddenly had magic powers.
Why did she take Harry? because, after all, Lily was her sister and Petunia is human; I don't think anybody enjoys hateing someone, and Patunia must have felt awfully when she discovered that her sister was death (are these verb tenses all right? I'm not very good at English), imagine that you get jealous because your sister has magic powers and you don't, you pretend are angry at her and once you leave home, you don't ever hear from her, and suddenly, she dies when she's like 25. I would feel awfully guilty because I had been all those years being rude to her.
So when she found out lily's death at the same time she found Harry at her doorstep... Petunia must have felt quite bad, so she kept Harry just to feel allright with herself again, I guess she felt like she owed something at Lily.

[Stayce]

from jkr's site...


If Petunia is not a witch, not a squib then what? almightily jealous?

Is there any kind of muggle equivalant of a squib?
Or, what would happen if a muggle did have magic but was repressing it..

Isn't Hermoine the equivelent of a muggle squib? a squib is a non magicall person from an all magical family so the opposite or equivelent would be a magical person from an all muggle family, right?

After that JK has said Petunia is not a squib, that her parents were non magical, but has not said wether Petunia is a witch or not. My question is she older or younger? if she is younger was she exposed to a magical boy maybe who hurt her? is she denying her magic because she is scared or resentful. Or is she just extremely jealous and does not know she is magical? DD's note definitely makes me think it is her who will learn magic late in life. Vernon seems to be the stright laced safe guy to run to after a magical boy scared and hurt you. LOL just my theory to stop from going crazy having to wait for JK to tell us how it is.

[HermioneLuna]

And a crucial question would be if Petunia were a Death Eater, where's her Dark Mark? I don't think she wears long sleeves all the time and Vernon would have noticed any tatoo on Petunia, especially one that was a skull with a snake protruding out of its mouth. Does that really sound like something Petunia of all people would have?

Also, Petunia didn't know that Voldemort had returned. If she were a Death Eater, she would have felt his return. She would have noticed the Dark Mark becoming clearer and she would have felt the burn when Voldemort signaled his followers. She would have seen it glowing. In reality though, she had no idea that Voldemort was back until Harry told her.

Voldemort never mentions that Petunia was his follower in the graveyard. Seems like something he would mention considering everything he was saying at that time.

Also, Petunia is still a muggle. I know I've said that before, but it's worth repeating.

[Stayce]

I wasn't going to address the snape theory till you mentioned Petunia not having the dark mark. It may be that she just dated a DE and never was inducted into the folds. It was also my thought that the mark was not visable till touched by VM then it flaired red when he touched it and black when the DE's saw it. My final thought was that Petunia was the DE he mentioned he thought would never return to his numbers. He said one was faithfully serving him, one was gone forever, and one was probably too scared to return. Anyway not all into the theory yet but it is just a point. Going to read more to see if there is any more to it.

[HermioneLuna]

I wasn't going to address the snape theory till you mentioned Petunia not having the dark mark. It may be that she just dated a DE and never was inducted into the folds. It was also my thought that the mark was not visable till touched by VM then it flaired red when he touched it and black when the DE's saw it. My final thought was that Petunia was the DE he mentioned he thought would never return to his numbers. He said one was faithfully serving him, one was gone forever, and one was probably too scared to return. Anyway not all into the theory yet but it is just a point. Going to read more to see if there is any more to it.

When Harry pretended to spill his potion in Goblet of Fire, he saw Karkaroff show Snape the mark on his arm. We also see a memory of Dumbledore's where Snape is saying that the mark is getting clearer and so is Karkaroff's. So I think that the mark is always there, it just glows and probably sends some sensation out to the Death Eaters. Voldemort said "How many will be brave enough to return when they feel it" or something to that effect, so it might burn as well. I think it can be seen at all times, but glows and burns or something when Voldemort is signaling his Death Eaters.

I can't see Petunia dating a Death Eater. Lily didn't associate with those kind of people and neither did James, Sirius, or Lupin. Peter wouldn't have openly been friends with Death Eaters because he was supposed to be a spy. I don't think Peter and Petunia were ever a couple. Those five were Petunia's only real connection with the magical world. Where would she have met a Death Eater? And with Petunia's personality she wouldn't have dated one even if she found one.

[Stayce]

See I took the comment to mean that the mark is getting clearer like it was not there before but is reappearing because VM is gaining strength. That's all.
And I too think it unlikely that she dated a DE but that was the only reasonalbe way I could connect her to Snape. Like I said it is just my version till I get to read HBP. All for fun don'ttake me serious. My biggest question is what is the deal with Petunia so there you go.

[Denyse]

I don't think Petunia was ever a witch. I think at most she is perhaps a squib or someone who once had magical abilities but denied them. (Refused to go to Hogwarts, etc) But even that doesn't hold much water because what 10 year old wouldn't want to be magical? If she was a squib, there would have been a lot of jealousy and that could explain some things.

I think the Dursley's took Harry in to save his life. As DD said, they did it begrudgingly but they did it. Didn't he explain the way the protective spell would work in the letter to them?

I definitely think there's some merit to the idea that Snape was attracted to/in love with Lily. I mean, talk about a slap in the face for the woman he loves to be in love with James, who once treated Snape so badly.

[Stayce]

Petunia is not a squib. JKRwoling.com it is in the facts section. What I meant is that while She was exposed to the wizarding world because of Lily. Sisters would Write to each other and have friends over during summer and all. Like Harry visiting The Burrow. I did not mean to imply she was a witch....yet....

[The Black Adder]

I think it's very possible that "that awful boy" was a young Severus Snape. If you think about it, since Lily's parents were delighted that Lily was a witch, they would have allowed, even encouraged her to have some of her friends from Hogwarts over during the Summer break. I think Lily may have felt sorry for Severus and tried to befriend him in their early years when she was still quite inexperienced in the wizarding world. So she may have had him over to the house during the summer.

I don't think that Petunia is an ex-witch, but I do think she knows a lot more about the wizarding world than she lets on.

[winter snow]

[QUOTE=The Black Adder]I think it's very possible that "that awful boy" was a young Severus Snape. If you think about it, since Lily's parents were delighted that Lily was a witch, they would have allowed, even encouraged her to have some of her friends from Hogwarts over during the Summer break. I think Lily may have felt sorry for Severus and tried to befriend him in their early years when she was still quite inexperienced in the wizarding world. So she may have had him over to the house during the summer. [Quote]

I actually think that "that awful boy" Petunia was referring to was in fact James Potter. I think Lily and James were together by their 6th year at Hogwarts. It makes sense that Lily would have invited James to her house to meet her parents over summer vacation. It may have been during this visit that Lily and James were discussing Dementors and Petunia was either listening in on the conversation or she was sitting and talking with Lily and James. I've been thinking that Perhaps Petunia holds James responsible for Lily's death. I realize she seems to blame Lily as well,but I can't get it out of my head that Petunia blames James more. Lily was her sister after all. Even when you're jealous of a sibling, deep down you still love them. Petunia is not a one-dimensional character. She is intriguingly interesting on many levels.

However, I will never support the theory that Petunia was ever a Death Eater. She seemed absolutely terrified at the mention of Voldermort's name. I'm thinking that has something to do with the way her parents were killed. I think Voldemort may have killed them while looking for James and Lily.

[SquibOnline]

I've always thought that there is a reason why they took harry in, but I can't see that happening

[Marcy]

I actually think that "that awful boy" Petunia was referring to was in fact James Potter. I think Lily and James were together by their 6th year at Hogwarts. It makes sense that Lily would have invited James to her house to meet her parents over summer vacation. It may have been during this visit that Lily and James were discussing Dementors and Petunia was either listening in on the conversation or she was sitting and talking with Lily and James.

I had personally believed that the reason Petunia has retained so much knowlege about the wizarding world was that she was so jealous of Lily that initially she would sneak peeks at her books etc. However, your post brought me to another (unintended) solution. Have we ever learned if Petunia was the oldest or youngest child? If Petunia was the youngest, it is entirely possible that she formed a huge crush (not love) on her big Sis's boyfriend. This happens quite frequently with my friends and their little sisters. If Petunia had a crush on James, this would explain why she was hanging on every word that he said.

[HermioneLuna]

I had personally believed that the reason Petunia has retained so much knowlege about the wizarding world was that she was so jealous of Lily that initially she would sneak peeks at her books etc. However, your post brought me to another (unintended) solution. Have we ever learned if Petunia was the oldest or youngest child? If Petunia was the youngest, it is entirely possible that she formed a huge crush (not love) on her big Sis's boyfriend. This happens quite frequently with my friends and their little sisters. If Petunia had a crush on James, this would explain why she was hanging on every word that he said.

Petunia is older, I think. Lily and James were in their early twenties when they died. If Petunia is younger she would have had to have married Vernon when she was very young in order to have Dudley who is about the same age as Harry.

Also, winter snow, Sirius said Lily and James started dating in 7th year, not 6th.

[Marcy]

Petunia is older, I think. Lily and James were in their early twenties when they died. If Petunia is younger she would have had to have married Vernon when she was very young in order to have Dudley who is about the same age as Harry.

Also, winter snow, Sirius said Lily and James started dating in 7th year, not 6th.


Excellent point HermioneLuna! I suppose it is still possible that Petunia had a crush on James, but it doesn't seem as likely if she were the big sister herself.

[winter snow]

I had personally believed that the reason Petunia has retained so much knowlege about the wizarding world was that she was so jealous of Lily that initially she would sneak peeks at her books etc. However, your post brought me to another (unintended) solution. Have we ever learned if Petunia was the oldest or youngest child? If Petunia was the youngest, it is entirely possible that she formed a huge crush (not love) on her big Sis's boyfriend. This happens quite frequently with my friends and their little sisters. If Petunia had a crush on James, this would explain why she was hanging on every word that he said.

Ooooh! I had never thought of that. I don't think we know which sister is older. Good point about jealousy and the possible crush on Lily's boyfriend. I can picture Petunia hanging on every word being said. I have long suspected that Petunia even though jealous of Lily longed to be in her sister's world, though she would never admit it out loud.

I can also see Petunia looking through Lily's books when Lily was out with friends on a visit home. I can pick up intense jealousy from Petunia in the first book. That little speech she gives about how her parents were so proud. "We have a witch in the family!" "I was the only one who saw her for what she was, a freak" Sometimes when people are jealous of someone they say hateful things about them. We also don't know if Petunia was treated differently than Lily because Lily had magical ability. If so, that would also explain her jealousy. I believe it was an extreme case of sibling rivalry. In some families, getting the parents attention is of great importance. Petunia may have felt as though she wasn't good enough to make her parents proud of her. You definitely gave us some more to think about! Good thoughts!

[Meiko]

Just a thought. Snape may not have been named by Voldemort as a traitor because of a Fidelius Charm (probably held by DD).

[Kobila]

One of the problems with assuming Petunia went to Hogwarts is that I would assume McGonegal would have known her then. But, in book 1, she talks to Dumbledore about having watched "the people who live here". She said you couldn't find two people who are less like us. She didn't sound like she knew Petunia.



well that seems to disprove the theory but i was a really creative take on things.. keep thinking guys!

[Wep]

I agree jealousy would be a huge part and motivation for Petunia learning about the Wizarding world...As for her having a crush on James (even if she was younger or older) that wouldn't be too much of a hard ask (weighs up Vernon and James...:D)...But I would assume by that stage (cause Petunia wouldn't be more than a year or two younger, or older for that matter) Petunia's negative opinions were probably firmly in place by then...

[Buckbeak2004]

That is a well thought out theory but i don't agree with some of it. Sorry, but I don't. Petunia as a witch doesn't really sound right. Could you imagine her prancing about in her uniform? :rotfl:

One bit I do agree with though is Snape. Voldemort tricking snape sounds likely, this would explain why snape is very suspicious and un-trusting around people.

[marylovesharry]

I didn't have time to go through and read all the posts on here but I read a lot of them and I wanted to let you know about the thread on Petunia Dursley: Petunia Dursley aka There's Something About Aunt Petunia (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=20243) I think you should check it out, there's some very interesting stuff in there. Happy posting!

[BloodyBlackRose]

Eugh. A love triangle. I don't know about that. I mean it just seems to I dunno... you know??

[winter snow]

Excellent point HermioneLuna! I suppose it is still possible that Petunia had a crush on James, but it doesn't seem as likely if she were the big sister herself.

Even if Petunia s the older sister, why does that discount the theory of her having a crush on James? Since it has been pointed out to me that Lily and James were in their 7th year when they started dating, then we know that James and Lily were about 17 or 18 at the time. Say Petunia is a couple years older than Lily. Petunia may have already met Vernon, say in school. Lily comes home for Christmas vacation with James in tow. Now James is much better looking than Vernon. Just because Petunia may have been involved with Vernon at the time, that doesn't mean she's not going to "look" at James. She would have had another reason to be jealous of Lily. I mean Vernon is nothing to look at!

I don't think age has anything to do with crushes. I had a couple high school teachers who used to make passes at the boys if they thought noone was looking. Older sisters can have a crush on a younger sister's boyfriend. It's not as common, I'm sure, but it happens. I think it's could happen in this case because of Petunia's personality. Her parents held Lily in high regard because of her magical ability. Petunia probably had to listen to Lily this and Lily that while Lily was away at school. When Lily was home, they probably dropped everything to listen to the happenings and goings-on at Hogwarts. Sometimes when one sibling is denied attention over another sibling, there is a great deal of resentment borne against the favored child.

Then one day Lily brings James home. I can picture Petunia eavesdropping on their conversations and developing a crush on James before a couple of days had gone by. I just think it's possible Petunia could have developed a crush on James. =)

[xXangelXx]

The Dursley took Harry in because dumboldore wanted harry to become stronger sheesh

[winter snow]

The Dursley took Harry in because dumboldore wanted harry to become stronger sheesh

Welcome to the forums!

In regards to your comment, it goes much further than that. We'll find out more in the future books. The fact the Harry has to go home to the Dursley's every summer has more to do with the blood protection from Petunia than with Harry becoming stronger. Harry becomes stronger at Hogwarts through his studies. He goes home to the Dursley's for life protection...in other words so he can live long enough to vanquish Voldermort.

[Dreath]

What if Petunia and Lily were twins?

[Selene Sedai]

One problem, if Petunia was and/or had been a death eater, Harry would have noticed the death eater sign on her forearm. Unless he has noticed it and never realized what it meant. But he found out what it meant in Gof, so it would've been mentioned in the beggining of Ootp if Petunia had the sign of a death eater branded on her. Then again, it may only be visible once Voldemort is back in power, but he came back in Gof and that also means that Harry would have noticed it in the beggining of Ootp. The only way Harry could not have noticed the sign of a death eater is if Petunia always wore long sleeve sweaters that covered her forearm. I don't think JKR has described Petunia's clothing in the books, or if she did, i'm not remembering it. Still, I like the theory anyhow. :)

Well Petunia can't be a Witch. Because that would make Dudley a Squib or Wizard, and since dudley can't see dementors, he can't be a Squib or Wizard.
squibs can't see dementors. beginning of Ootp Mrs. Figg in the hearing was making up stuff when she was describing the dementors. page 144 Ootp the american version "I saw dementors running-". if muggles can't see them then it means only a magical person can, and squibs aren't magical, they just have magical parentage. I highly doubt that squibs can see dementors.

[GrangerGal]

One problem, if Petunia was and/or had been a death eater, Harry would have noticed the death eater sign on her forearm.
I thought it only came out as Voldemort gained power (his body) in the 4th book...

[HermioneLuna]

If Petunia were ever a member of the magical community, why would she have been indoors all day on the day that Voldemort fell? If she were a death eater, she would have been out looking for him, or avoiding the Aurors. If she weren't a death eater, she would have been out celebrating Voldemort's fall.

[ChiChi]

If Petunia were ever a member of the magical community, why would she have been indoors all day on the day that Voldemort fell? If she were a death eater, she would have been out looking for him, or avoiding the Aurors. If she weren't a death eater, she would have been out celebrating Voldemort's fall.
Well she had a son to take care of, and she has to keep her appearence Vernon (if it's true) doesn't know she's a witch. Or maybe she didn't know about his fall!
If she was a death eater, what better way to hide from the aurors than staying indoors with her Duddikins. :scared:

[Darynthe]

I think Petunia took Harry in because Dumbledore is blackmailing her with some secret. Which is that? I don't know.

[Floor_Pie]

Is blackmail the right word? Dumbledore seems to be such a gentle person.

[melusinafairy]

she (jo) did say petunia is more than a muggle (when someone asked if she was a squib, she said no but close) but i dont think Voldemort would support having a muggle or muggle born as a death eater. i think that would be very un-voldemort like.
This is just my theory though :)