Sympathy For Ron?

[firstfallen]

ok i know this isn't a predicition thread i would just like to make all those in favour of h/hr to be a little more sensetive to ron's emotions!
We are all aware of Ron's feelings towards Hr and also his resentment to H for being better than him at everything!
Something tells me a H/Hr coupling would be a major blow to his confidence. Hr sees herself Ron's superior in every sense and would never consider going out with Ron (not only becuase hes ginger [joke]) but as she has already noted his undeveloped emotions and insensitivity. Ron has his heart set on Hr and thats why the only other interest in a girl hes shown is a veela. Ron probably feels a little overshadowed by the fact harry has had a girlfriend-thing (Cho) and he still hasn't. I think Harry is going to have a lot more girlfriends before he finds the key to the door in the ministry, and i doubt he would go near Hr for Ron's sake at least.
Oh yea, and i think the kisses from Hr was just a way of JK showing that Hr and the other two are maturing into a adult friendship. (hope this made sense) :huh:

[Griff_Ndor]

Jkr actually indicated that Ron and Hermione will get together at some point.
I dont think that Harry will get with anyone just yet. I think he is going to be far too busy fighting Voldie and his DE.
If he doesnt get out of the mood he has been in nthrough OotP, nobody would want to be with him anyway! Everyone else has caught the sharp edge of his tongue of late. I certainly think Ron gettineg with Hermione would be a huge boost to his confidence. I wouldn't want to be the one to tell Harry though if he was in the afore-
mentioned mood still!!

[Padfoot127]

Ron wasn't upset about Harry having a girlfriend before he did, he was happy for him, especially after that DA meeting before Christmas...

[MalfoyIsMINE]

Yeah, I agree with Padfoot127, Ron wasn't upset when Harry came back saying he had kissed Cho, he was happy and maybe a bit amused...

[RedCape]

I agree, I didn't notice Ron being hurt, upset, jealous or overshadowed about Harry and Cho. He was happy for Harry.

---------------

I believe Ron has feelings for Hermoine and Hermoine has feelings for Ron. She's waiting for him to mature. I think we'll see him get there in the next book. This is not a thread on that, but I'm just saying it because I think it will be a moot point about Ron's self-esteem. Harry and Hermoine won't be more than friends.

Friends do kiss each other from time to time. I saw nothing more than that in Hermoine kissing Harry on the cheek.

-----------------
Harry and Hermoine
Since I don't know for sure what will happen in the books, I'll take a stab at your idea.

IF Harry and Hermoine got together as boyfriend and girlfriend, Ron would be hurt and feel left out. Harry and Hermoine would NEVER date casually though. One, because they wouldn't want to hurt Ron and two, because they wouldn't want to ruin their own friendship. They would both have to be sure it was the real deal.

Ron and Hermoine
IF Ron and Hermoine get together as boyfriend and girlfriend then Harry will be a bit hurt as well even if he doesn't think of Hermoine as a potential girlfriend for himself.

It is a three-way friendship and if two get together then the third is bound to feel left out. The couple won't want the third person around ALL the time anymore.

[Sirius83]

Sorry, but i have to say. Why not sympathy for Harry? Ron has a family that loves him. Ron doesn't get people staring at him everywhere he goes. Ron doesn't get to watch a schoolmate and his godfather get murdered in cold blood. Ron didn't have to get his parents killed when he was a baby and be brought up with an abusive family. Ron may not be rich but his parents are still able to give him the things he needs, including a new broom and were lucky enough to be able to take him on a holiday to Egypt. Ron got to be a prefect and he got to play on the Quidditch team and be heralded as the saviour of the team. Ron doesn't have to put up with people he thought were his friends turning their backs on him.

I can't understand why Ron always has to get the sympathy when it's actually Harry who needs it. Ron may be in the shadow a little, but look at what Harry has to be put through because he's in the spotlight.

Shipwise, it all depends how JKR plays the scenarios out. But as there is already a shipping thread, if this is going to remain the main topic of this thread, it will probably be closed.

[WeasleyIsOurKing]

I don't think Harry would mind much if Ron and Hermione did get together. Well, maybe a little, but he's already used to their leaving him out of things and discussing things without him, and yeah, dating is different, but he would get used to it eventually. He would have other things to deal with - Voldemort, perhaps?

In case this gets closed, here's the link to the shipper thread: Who Will Fall In Love With Whom (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=16181)

[Sirius83]

Actually, look at OOTP, namely when Harry first arrives at Grimmauld. I think if R/Hr got together, the effect on Harry would be the same as the effect on Ron if H/Hr got together. Its a tight trio and you can't avoid a sticky situation. But now Harry needs his friends more than ever and if they go off together someplace, things are really going to be bad for him.

[Fairydust]

Ron doesn't need sympathy. He's a cool character and seems pretty secure. At least, secure enough. Ron's going to rise up in the next books. He's got to. Go Ron! and gor R/H. sorry, the shipper in me just had to come out. :p

[Madame Raden]

In Defense of a Sidekick


As the next installment of the Harry Potter series looms and amidst the speculation of where the plot will twist and turn, we find that so many people overlook one of the most important characters in the septology, Ron Weasley. Admittedly, there are so many shippers, arm chair quarterbacks who can quote chapter and verse, talking about what JKR has in store for us that we find something lacking…who really looks at this person?

Lately, it’s all about who hooks up with who, how dies, and how does Harry fare in the end. Speculation can be a healthy thing, I am guilty of it too. More than once I read the books and hoped beyond hope that Ron, who more than once is slammed by God knows who, gets the girl. He’s earned it, more than once.

I do feel, as many do, that he is emotionally immature and kind of boorish, but I can also tell you that Han Solo was just as bad or worse and look who he ended up with, the object of his rantings, ravings and scandalously biting repartee. I Don’t see Princess Leia feeling the strain. She hated him, fought with him and railed against his liking her right off. (Incidentally it took three movies to fix that. And they were adults!)

If you will, for a moment, take a look at the youngest Weasley brother, you can tell a lot. Being from a big family, he has a lot to deal with, four older brothers, a humble financial situation, low self esteem, and yes, the role of the sidekick.

To explain what I mean, lets start off at the beginning in The Sorcerer’s Stone. There, we meet a 11 year old Ronald on his first train ride to Hogwarts. Having been exposed to the Weasley family legacy, he already had a lot to live up to (namely his older brothers. Bill, a Gringot’s Curse Breaker, Charlie, a dragon trainer, and the twins, Fred and George both outgoing rule breaking Quidditch players and Percy, prefect and headboy) All of these different men of the Weasley family in their way, are quite a lot to follow. Look at what they represent, Bill (his coolness and approachability) then Charlie, his achievements in his choice of employment as a wizard (his parents going to visit him one Christmas) Percy (ambitious and hard working) and the twins (standout Quidditch players that have a knack for getting attention).

The Weasley men are not pushovers by any means and it takes a strong person to withstand the ridicule of the other more financially set purebloods. (Name any Slytherin, and their Head of House to be precise) Ron, when he appears for the first time at Hogwarts, has not only the stigma of being another Weasley, but that of being the smallest (Percy a notable second). Almost at once he has to fend off verbal attacks from other students.

Draco starts right off making him feel lower than he should. I guess you can chalk that up to the environment he was brought up in (Don’t get me started!). We see immediately, his lack of self esteem and his need for acceptance. But any of us, at that age, were in need of that. But as we reach the end of the first book, Ron steps out of the shadow and exhibits true courage (he wouldn’t have made it in Gryffindor if he didn’t have it in him). When, at the end of Sorcerer’s Stone, he makes the sacrifice so that Harry can go on to get the stone, we see his true colors come out. He shows, courage, strength and smarts.

Those qualities are not in short supply when we meet him again in Chamber of Secrets. He speaks his mind and has no problem telling it like it is, even when he jokes. Hermione knows this best. He has a big mouth and has no trouble using it. He even shows courage under fire when Malfoy goes continuously after Hermione, much to his gastric discontent. That never stops. His mission is to be Harry’s best friend. His other mission is to protect those who are getting the raw end, Hermione in particular. (Those shippers rejoice)

Then in the Prisoner of Azkaban we see a different side of Ron, his boorish immature “boy” side. As a woman, I can tell you at that age boys are nothing like we want them to be. Ron, who though he isn’t too quick on the girl thing, shouldn’t be penalized for it, though many shippers tend to slam him.

Hey all, I just want to let everyone know that no matter what happens in the HPverse we all are in agreement, teen love is never a perfect thing. What we need to consider is that JKR is writing with a simple plan in mind, giving us clues, and yes, tiny sparkles of hope to our own personal shipping dreams.

Personally, having read all v15 I have come to the conclusion that while Ron is clueless, he is far from stupid. In past books, starting at POA, we notice a partiality, even as JKR insists is not known to him. What we fail to see is that as teenagers we are the least likely to recognize something that profound until its too late to avert our eyes.

Case in point: Ron defends Hermione, so does Harry. But who is most affected, who gets the most repercussions? Ron does decidedly. Malfoy who I believe has a morbid obsession with her (are there other muggle born girls at Hogwarts, what's his deal? Always her but I digress.) Yet, to his credit Ron continues to defend her. In GOF he's being a typical teenager. He's lived with 4 older brothers and knows perfectly well about girlfriends, and that they are just (according to Fred and George) reasons to get on him. Plus at that tender age he has a lot to deal with. First of all he's the SIDEKICK, and also a Weasley.

Draco pounds him, Crab and Goyle echo anything Draco says, and then there's Snape who doesn't help. Try and cultivate feelings under the microscope of two rowdy brothers, and see how you do. When he does come into contact with feelings that may be welling up for her or any one else he's conflicted.

I do honestly believe that Hermione has definite and tangible feelings for him but she doesn't want to oust Harry. He's alone enough and it seems no matter who gets close to him has the potential to get hurt. What I also believe is that in the G12 house when Harry comes in, they are innocently being around one another.

In the next book there is going to definite awkward, oogles in the pit of the stomach instances, like perhaps as prefects (Harry in the invisibility cloak) they are walking around and have to hide because they are going to over hear something plot thicky, and then the inevitable "first kiss" could happen while they are hiding.

Then I believe if that is how they will take up a notch they will spend a lot of time avoiding the subject while all those 16 year old hormones are raging on. And if you remember they are always on. I think that besides something either happening or almost happening, Harry will notice. He is not stupid either. He's also not going to be as preoccupied with it. R/Hr will be I assure you. Once Ron realizes she's more than just one of the guys, as will Draco I fear, he will not deal with it well. Think if you will of Han Solo and Princess Leia, how long did it take before their angry sparks turned into tender moments we all rewound the tape for. (Who’s scruffy looking????)

I personally think that with Lucious Malfoy looming as a just back from the brink wanna be MOM things could get very sticky at Hogwarts, giving us many different occasions to see the fur fly. Now, onto a point that I need to make about Ron. Immature he is, but that was exactly how James was if you all will remember. It took Lily until 7th year to take notice he had changed. Ron’s under the gun. That doesn’t mean that he isn’t as strong, if not stronger than the rest. And now I would like to get to the two kisses that are so debated lately. Even though I do hold out for the hope that the perfume and the looks and the awkward almosts, I believe that her kisses were SELFLESS. They were to help her best friends know that someone cares, although I do believe that it started in motion feelings Ron is going to be dealing with. She is the catalyst for so much. She’s the voice of reason, she’s the glue that keeps the trio together and also the nitro that could pull them apart. But true friends never burst at the seems as we have seen in the last 5 books.

After looking at the excerpts from Mugglenet on why Hr-R could happen I firmly believe he a jealous teenager. Victor Krum for example. Possessive, yes, I think so. And with the next book someone will notice (my bet is on Draco)

He spends time with her, she knows him and he also knows her. Of you guys out there didn’t you have a girl that you know that would have given kittens to have you notice her? And when you noticed her how long did it take? The first move is always the hardest as I think will be for Ron.

As girls go, she’s smart, which Ron finds “brilliant, scary but brilliant.” She’s loyal which they both admire, as well as staff. She’s level headed, most of the time (to her credit and praise from Prof McGonagall.) But she’s also a teenager as well with feelings and conflicts inside. I remember being at that age and not understanding the feelings I had. I do know that she once her choice is made will never falter.

I saw that immediately in the first book. Her immediate alarm for Ron. His sticking up for her again and again through the series, more ardently each book,.

In the Great hall in COS her awkward hug.

In POA when she looks at him and reacts awkwardly. In GOF when she kisses his cheek and fights with him. (aka Han solo princess Leia.)

Come on, the tension is there. The stage is set. Clues, both in print and also by word of mouth from herself JKR.

I know that all of you have your opinions, and hopes for who will be with who but I believe, that in the end it will be Ron who finally captures the heart of the fair Hermione. Luke didn’t get a lady in the end. His mission was bigger than that.

Countdown to Azkaban is two days and I can’t wait. The tension is so thick you can slice it RUPERT you were made for Ron’s character and WEASLEY is our KING.

And Hermione will be your Queen.

[MagicianGirl]

Ron doesn't need sympathy and I mean it in a nice way. Ron is becoming a character of his own. He accomplished something without Harry and Hermione's help and that is to triumph (winning the Cup) when there was an overwhelming obstacles in front of him. He becomes more mature as the series continues. He may have his bad moments but nobody's perfect.

[Claireyellen]

I think it's hard not to feel sorry for Ron in some parts of the stories. One particular moment was when he came down to see if Harry was ok in GoF and Harry threw the badge at Ron's head and 'thought' that he hated everything about Ron to the gap between his ankle and PJ leg.

Also his early faliers with Quiddich. It must have been hard for him to have Harry, a boy who before Howarts had never known of the sport and never ridden a broom, as an excellent Quiddich player and then for Ron to 'fail'.

And the big one, must be hard to have a best friend who's one of the most famous wizards in the world and also be 1 of 7 children. 1 of whom has been Quiddich captain and 2 have been head boy. To be honest I was extreamly happy when Ron got prefect, was his turn to have something nice happen. Pity it was because Dumbledore just thought Harry had enough to deal with.

But hey in the end, I believe, Ron will shine (and get the girl :))

[Marisa]

I really don't mind whether its r/hr or h/hr... but I think that they're friends, and tho one may be hurt if the other one is w/ hr, they'll understand, b/c friendship is far more important... Just using a bit of my own logic LOL

[lady_celestine]

lovely topic! i'm quite a ron supporter myself! :tu:
i think that if ron and hermione get together, harry will be weirded out, but it won't be too bad, since he probably knows something is going on between them (see GoF) and will be glad they tone down on the bickering. plus, if he gets a girl of his own *coughginnycough* all will be fine.
if harry and hermione get together, though, it's a completely different story. why? because ron loves hermione. yeah, he's bad at showing it, but i really think he does. if his best friend swoops the girl from under his nose, how will that make him feel? and how will harry and ron's friendship survive to that? unnecessary angst if you ask me... it doesn't belong to the HP universe.

[Marie Lexis]

Um...I don't understand this thread exactly but anyway...didn't JKR practically say straight out that Ron and Hermione are going to be dating by the end of the series. And I know for sure she said that Harry and Hermione have just a platonic relationship. That neither of them have feelings that way towards each other at all.

[rhtruluv]

Yay

[Marie Lexis]

Yay


Well that's the smallest post I've seen so far.

[Frankie Inkblot]

I've never really committed myself to a ship in particular, but after reading that thread-starter/rant about Ron, I think I might actually be R/Hr. I think it will be those two as a sort of default:
Harry just seems to be in a different league, and not very comfortable with dating his friends. Harry also seems to like more mysterious, elusive types (A la Cho). Which is why I think he and Hermione will never be anything more than friends. No matter what happens to sway Hermione.

Ron and Hermione are somewhat bonded in the fact that they are both very slight henchmen to Harry. Don't get angry; just think about it.

Ron has had his bouts with jealousy and stubbornness, but he's just like any other guy whose crush doesn't see him the way he'd like her to. Picture yourself, secretly in love with someone who you can't really openly date - now picture that person moving on and dating someone else, totally disregarding you?

I think Hermione and Ron are much closer than they let on, and I think what lies beneath is that they are not sure how to approach the situation because of Harry. Were there no Harry, adn these two just had adventures on their own, they'd already be together, in my opinion.

[Northcott]

Case in point: Ron defends Hermione, so does Harry. But who is most affected, who gets the most repercussions? Ron does decidedly. Malfoy who I believe has a morbid obsession with her (are there other muggle born girls at Hogwarts, what's his deal? Always her but I digress.)

I'd say a large part of that obsession of Draco's is because someone he despises due to his remarkably racist/bigotted world-view has proven to be superior to him in every magical capacity. Not only has Hermione utter trumped this proud pure-blood in every subject in school (which, given practical applications in their lives, basically makes her far more adept at the things his "pure blood" should be superior at), but worse for the little brat, his father has taken notice of it. I would imagine that every time Draco starts to throw a temper-tantrum at home about not getting what he wants, old Lucius reminds Draco that he didn't get the son he wanted... so it's all fair.

As for Ron, I agree. I feel bad for him now and again during the story -- he does bear an awful load at times -- but overall he's got a pretty good life. Loving family, happy childhood (minus some pranks), a wonderful home, good friends, and he's starting to come into his own... becoming a man, and doing so with panache (and some growing pains).

All in all, I'd say he's one of the luckiest characters in the series.

[Stephie]

Ron wasn't upset about Harry having a girlfriend before he did, he was happy for him, especially after that DA meeting before Christmas...

How do we know for sure the
Ron wasn't being sarcatically "hearty"

[dobydoo]

I put this on the love thread already, but it looks like it is more appropriate here.

RON DESERVES IT

Sorry if I step on someone's feet here, but I do not buy the "Ron-should-get-Hermione-because-he-deserves-it" line of thinking. Seriously, how bad does Ron have it. Ron has a a loving family, and has had it his entire life. And as it come from teasing from your family, well, that goes hand in hand. But does anyone believe that the twins would not be there if someone attakced Ron?

Now honestly, has Ron had it worse than Harry, or better yet, Neville?

By using the "deserves it" logic, shouldn't we all want Neville to get the girl he likes before anyone else gets a girl? Harry even stated that not having parents is probably better than having parents who do not know who you are (during the visit to Hospital). And the one thing that both Harry and Ron have, really good close friends (the trio), does Nevelle even truly have this?

No one is picked on more than Neville; heck, even McGonnagal warned him before all the foreign students came in GoF. And as for courage, it is Neville who first goes after Malfoy and the clan in PS/SS (@ the quidditch game), and his preformance in the MoM was awesome - he was fighting until the end. I mean, thats my dog, thats Neville.

And as for Harry, does he have it better than Ron? Harry did not receive a loving childhood. Harry was viewed as a second class citizen, he was a Dobby to the Dursley's. Not only that, he has been percieved by the rest of the students at different times as a crack-pot, and as the heir of Slytherin. He has had his parents murdered (never knew them), and saw his god father killed in front of his own eyes. And now he knows that he has to murder someone. All that and he's not even 16 (of course he will be by the next book, but technically speak, he is not, yet).

So once agan, do people truly believe that Ron has it worse than Hary or Neville.

[Silver Stag]

my answer is the same as redcape's..hermiones waiting on ron to mature

[sone]

:lol: No one is that patient.....

[FredRocksMySocks]

Shouldn't this belong in the Love Thread? Or, perahaps Is Ron THAT Bad? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=18566&highlight=ron)? I don't mean to nitpick, but I'm sure that I've seen this discussion elsehwere on the forums, and not clogging the forums with duplicate threads is a good way to help out the mods.

[Da_Chinkster]

Ron wasn't upset about Harry having a girlfriend before he did, he was happy for him, especially after that DA meeting before Christmas...

But Ron has no feelings for Cho. Im sure he'd feel different if there was a H/Hr ship. He would at the very least feel as though he would become detached from his two best friends if not some sort of jealousy regardless of whether or not he has feelings for hr

[Madame Raden]

Ron is just realizing that girls are girls, we need to cut him a bit of slack. Don Juan he is not, nor is he the most suave. Watch out, Quidditch, growing stronger, and more manly. Betcha he'll get notice.

[dobydoo]

Madame RadenRon is just realizing that girls are girls, we need to cut him a bit of slack. Don Juan he is not, nor is he the most suave. Watch out, Quidditch, growing stronger, and more manly. Betcha he'll get notice.

That's fine and al, but what does it has to do w/ sympathy for Ron. I think Ron gets more sympathy than any other character in the book. Like I said before, there are two other Gryffindor boys who deserve sympathy more than Ron; Harry and Neville.

My question is this; wouldn't we all rather have Ron grow up and realize that he doesn't have it that bad instead of feeling sorry for himself?

[sone]

Ron is just realizing that girls are girls, we need to cut him a bit of slack.

I'll cut him some slack when he cuts Hermione some slack. Doesn't anybody recognize that he is only irritating her? If he really wants to know what Hermione sees in Krum, he can start with how Viktor treats her. Even as a teenager, girls do not respond to be vexed by a fool.

[Madame Raden]

Case in point Sone, James was an irritating little twerp. It took Lily to bring him out of that and what year was that???? 7th. My point is made. You cannot really expect male teenage boys to be wonderful sensitive caring youths they must be molded, or rather induced by something they want. Even Lupin said that it took him a while to get the picture... thoughts??

[sone]

Case in point Sone, James was an irritating little twerp. It took Lily to bring him out of that and what year was that???? 7th. My point is made.

Yes, but you are missing mine. Even as a teenager, girls do not respond to be vexed by a fool. If you want to use Lily and James as an example, Lily did not start going out with James until after not before he grew out of it. If he didn't grow out of it (like Snape) then Lily would not go out with him. But as Snape also proved along with Harry just because many are idiots at fifteen does not mean they all make the same mistakes or that they grow out of them. Hermione is already around boys who are willing to be the guy or who are already the guy that James was in his seventh year. James wanted Lily enough that he was willing to make changes within himself. Ron has not shown that yet. When or if he does, I will change my mind but I have to see change first.

You cannot really expect male teenage boys to be wonderful sensitive caring youths they must be molded, or rather induced by something they want.

Yes I can. At least in some anyway, the fact that Ron is fifteen is no excuse.Not everyone who is fifteen is an idiot in the exact same way. Like I said, I'll cut him some slack when he cuts Hermione some slack.

[Codemastar]

Wow, this starts out with Ron sympathy and turns into a romance debate. At most cases I would jump in, but that's what the love thread is for. I'll say very clearly that I have NO sympathy for Ron. I mean, come on, he had DIRT on his nose! But seriously, the only reason he immediately befriends Harry is because he's the boy who lived. (see train ride: "Do you really have the- you know- scar?") Ron doesn't seem to realise how good his life is when compared to Harry's. Ron has a mom he could go to when something was wrong and he has a dad he can share quality time with.

Harry has none of that. Ron has obvious jealousy, we all know that. Ron gets made prefect (should have been Harry), he gets a spot on the quidditch team, he becomes Gryfindor king, and I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes Quidditch captian (should be Harry). Ron is constantly not showing any sign of maturing, and doesn't seem to realise that war HAS started. So no, I have no sympathy for Ron. However, I do have sympathy for Harry, but this is not the 'Sympathy for Harry' thread, so I won't go to far into detail.

[Da_Chinkster]

I wouldnt expect Ron to be wonderful and caring, but the way he treats Hr sometimes is downright rude and offensive. I mean some of the stuff he says is no way to treat a human being (err I mean wizard/witch) and at his age he should know that

[lady_celestine]

oh come on, i thought that james potter at 15 was a lot more offensive than ron ever was... in "Snape's Worse Memory", he doesn't even call lily by her name, he tries to blackmail her into dating him, and he's obviously an arrogant show-off who hexes people just for fun, as lily well remarked! she yells at him and tells him she wouldn't chose him over the giant squid (if that's not irritation, i don't know what is)...
yet, they end up married in the end. oh, the irony. ron and hermione's romantic relationship isn't any more improbable than that, don't you think?

[Loyce]

I think I do feel sorry for Ron at times, but not always. Yes, he does take for granted that he has such a great family, but he does love them.
It is hard for him b/c H is so famous and great at Quidditch and has all that money, but H is more than willing to share. I don't like the way he treats Hr sometimes, but everyone says stuff that hurts people. Ron is still young, and hopefully he'll grow out of it. H/Hr/R have made their friendship last this long, I think it will endure, and I think we all can remember how horrid life could be at that age!

[sone]

oh come on, i thought that james potter at 15 was a lot more offensive than ron ever was... in "Snape's Worse Memory", he doesn't even call lily by her name, he tries to blackmail her into dating him, and he's obviously an arrogant show-off who hexes people just for fun, as lily well remarked! she yells at him and tells him she wouldn't chose him over the giant squid (if that's not irritation, i don't know what is)...
yet, they end up married in the end. oh, the irony. ron and hermione's romantic relationship isn't any more improbable than that, don't you think?

James Potter was more offensive at fifteen in general than Ron ever was to Hermione but not by much. But you noticed, Lily only started dating James after he made changes to not be the boy that Harry saw in that pensieve. If he did not make those changes, Lily would not be going out with him. If you want to parallel Lily/James relationship to Ron/Hermione then the same lessons should be applied as well. Ron with his current attitude is not winning Hermione over. Also the Yule Ball showed that Hermione waits for nobody. You either come first or not at all. There is no exceptions, just like there wasn't with James. So far, Ron has not done so. I'm sure some will be saying give him time, but like I said, Hermione waits for nobody.

[Da_Chinkster]

hmmm good point. But just because James did it doesnt make it right and if James had got shot down I would have no sympathy for him

[Madame Raden]

People can change, James did and for the better. It takes a push here and there. I feel sorry for Ron in the sense that he needs someone to guide him. Ginny for instance. She's very strong. He might look to her for answers when he seems to get no where. And a confidence boost would definitely be Quidditch. Once he realizes that he's not the lowly guy that Malfoy protrays him as I feel that all that angst and sarcasm towards others just might mellow out.

[FalseFaith]

For me, i don't have sympathy for Ron, I love him and feel sorry for him at times, but no sympathy. Ron doesn't have it bad, I relate to the guy, Family of 6 in a small house, and some of my best friends have two houses (rich area). But i dont want someone's sympathy, i actually have it good. My family loves me and trust me. My siblings may get on my nerves but they are my true friends. Ron has a good life, taking some handmedowns isn't deserveing of sympathy. I have sympathy for Harry losing your parents, growing up in a horrid environment, and losing more love ones in your life. That has to be hard. Harry's life is messed up. No person should go through that. If your gonna play the sympathy card, it goes to harry. JMO

[Puffskein]

James wanted Lily enough that he was willing to make changes within himself. Ron has not shown that yet. When or if he does, I will change my mind but I have to see change first.

Just by the way, we don't know that James changed himself in order to win Lily over. He did offer to lay off Snape if she'd go out with him, but her criticism didn't exactly make him see sense, did it? The other day I read an article by someone who was a bully aged 12 who said that he wasn't sure whether he gave it up in order to appeal to girls, or simply because he grew up.

I'm not Ron's number one fan, but I wish his detractors would spare their bile for the really evil people. Of course he's better off than Harry, but can you blame him for coveting what he spent his childhood lacking? He's a typical teenage boy with plenty of emotional development to do, and I'm sure Hermione knows it.

[Tane]

Why does Ron need sympathy as he seems to be coping very well with life and stuff like that? Ron is only bossy at times because he feels the need to compete all the time, he comes from a very large family and a poor one at that so Ron fights a little more for the things in his life. Ron would not go through all this if he didn't want to anyway so I don't really feel any sympathy for him but more a sense of pride for what he tries to achieve in life.

[mevam]

Yes, I agree. Having his two best friends going out and leaving him on the sidelines as always would be a major blow to Ron's ego, as though it weren't deflated enough as it is. I think that for Ron to gain some confidence, he needs BOTH his friends to be available to him, which makes a Ron/Hr ship all the more likely.

[dobydoo]

I still do not understand that H/Hr would hurt Ron's ego. In fact, who cares. It would be a great time for Ron to show some maturity and get over it (if he even likes Hermione in a romantic way, which I do not believe).

Once again, why does Ron get all the sympathy when both Harry and Neville have it worse than Ron?

Is it b/c Ron feels sorry for himself?

Is it b/c he is funny? Well, you do not see Harry and Ron put down others as much as Ron.

Why should Ron get sympathy before Hary and/or Neville.

[Stephie]

I'm not that much of a Ron fan, but sometimes, it's hard to not feel bad for him. Though he seems content without money around his friends most of the time.

[dobydoo]

but he has friends, family, he got his wish to be prefect and win the quidditch cup

[sirius'swife]

well sympathy is for characters like alice and frank longbottom not for ron
but i have to wonder why all the harry/hermoine shippers are so caustic towards ronald? its almost too desperate- sort of like we must shoot him down...we MUST! a h/hr inclined mate forces me to read all these essays pertaining to why harry and hermoine are suited to each other(ok i'll admit it, i lost a bet) and in an essay of abt 6-7 paragraphs(roughly), at least 3-4 paras are on slagging ron off. now as huge ron-fan i found it annoying at first but i actually find it amusing now
anyways getting back to the actual topic- ron doesnt need pity. he's a perfectly normal 15-year-old. and yeah he doesnt try hermoine like a lady but you know i have to say, hermoine is dismissive of ron too when he doesnt agree with her- i need hardly count the number times she's like 'oh dont be silly ron' 'oh shut up ron'
no matter what the circumstance that is disrespect- so nobody's a saint here and i cant understand the need for one either!! they're kids- and great mates. its a common phenomenon that occurs in society when mates tend to slack off on their manners and take each other for granted. some even consider it a sign of the trust that is in place- for one to be off guard long enough to be themselves. im sure if ron treated hermoine gracefully someone would have made the time to come out and say- well look at how he treats her, its so impersonal!! its like he's deliberately snubbing her out of the trio.... and id give them full marks for creativity
and as for the self-pitying thing. look we all feel sorry for ourselves some days yeah? and take the hp characters themselves. much of harry's anger at the start of book 5 was born out of righteous indignation and self-pity. and hermoine's done the moaning thing too(in poa when harry tries to gently make her see that it is most likely that crookshanks has eaten scabbers, she bursts into tears and says something abt, i knew you'd take his side, harry, go away!!- that is in a way self-pitying). basically my point is- it is but normal. why is it that anyone and everyone can have a fault(or a million) but not ron? i find it most amazing and all these anti-ron rantings made for a most amusing reading for a while now....

[Kimmetje]

I agree that ron shouldn't be sympathized with as he has got family, friends and a lot of other things that he doesn't have to bother with Harry does that(like being insulted by the Daily Prophet once a week) have to... :p

[v@sh]

I think there is a great misconception amongst HP fans that H/Hr shippers don't have sympathy for Ron, or that they dislike him merely because he is "in the way" of a H/Hr relationship. There is a distinction between Ron the character when is is Ronald, and the Ron when he acts around the opposite sex. As this seems like its turning into the love thread, I'll vear back on course.

The question is why we sympathise with Ron? and not the other characters because really...Ron has got everything, and whilst he is only a 15 year old, he will mature later on to learn that fame and money isn't everything. Ron has the love of his family - as much as Fred and George do bag him - they do care for him, love from his friends, a home to look forward to, and as much as his burdens are in trying to live up to his brothers, there are other people with greater burdens than him and much more better reasons to sympathise with them than Ron. Sure we sympathise with Ron when he isn't going well at Quidditch, or because he is Harry's "sidekick", or he doesn't get the recognition Harry does because he isn't famous but much of that is because of his attitude towards them and his own doing and a part of his character. If he was enthusiastic towards his ambitions, his friendship with Harry and a will to be optimistic then Ron would be different right now and discussion wouldn't be taking place. He'll eventually mature into that Ron, but hes lagging behind his friends, even though Hermione is an exception because she is light years ahead of both of them.

Then comes Harry, a wizard who has fame, money, recognition and the Quidditch skills to go along with them. But with fame and recognition, there are downfalls of that as seen in OOTP and GOF. Being the centre of attention, the talk of the school, being called names and made out what he really isn't, is a lot more to deal with than being bad at Quidditch. Not only does Harry has to deal with this and stares, glares, and scarying people about he has no parents, relatives that treat him like a slave, and basically no childhood. If there is anything to sympathise then you should be sympathising with Harry more than Ron. Harry has lost a decade of valuable childhood, he feels no love towards him during those 10 years, no friends to have fun with, a decade of ridiculing and demands. You learn an awful lot in a decade, particularly the first 10 years and its a great surprise Harry actually turned out the way he did. Now Harry adds to his burdens already given to him, the greatest one of all - to defeat the Dark Lord or all will be lost.

Then comes Neville, we should be sympathising with him IMO more than Ron also. Also like Harry he has "no parents", but its even worst than having his parents dead - because they are alive and not alive - 10 years of that is as bad as Harry. Not to mention Neville gets picked on every week at school, from mates to teachers.

Ask yourself this simple question, would you prefer to have a normal life with love from friends and family whilst a little poor, or would you prefer an early childhood being in isolation from the world with no parents for 10 years locked up in a little cupboard?

[nrogara]

I've seen this touched upon in other areas and it seems many people always come back to comparing Ron to another character and then judging him based off that other person's woes. If the other person is found to have it worse in some way then they deserve sympathy and Ron doesn't. Do people really dole out sympathy like that? Do they compare everyone against everyone else and when they find someone more 'deserving' they no longer have sympathy or other feelings for the first person? Why does Ron have to be a more tragic figure than anyone else for him to deserve any sympathy or whatever? I would find that exhausting to have to constantly compare people.

Do I have any sympathy for Ron? Sure. I have sympathy for things that hurt or effect him negatively in his life. Emphasis being his life - not anyone elses. I mean all in all I think he's got a great life for the most part, but hardly perfect. I don't think anyone could ever have the perfect life that would never be touched by adversity, hardships or pressure. Especially viewed from the eyes of a teenager that he is. Let's see, there's his self-consciousness of his being poor. Hardly something to call out the Red Cross for but a very real thing and anyone who has faced the same would probably know. I'm sorry that his family has had a rift in it now. His OOC reaction to Percy's letter shows how much that really got to him. I could go on and list things but what would be the point? There are different things I can and do have sympathy for Ron. But that doesn't I don't have sympathy for other characters as well. But I find it absurd to compare his life to anyone elses and base judgement off that. What's the point?

I guess the thing is I don't think feelings like sympathy and compassion are limited emotions and if one person takes up more, because they are more tragic or something, than someone else shouldn't get any. Sympathy and compassion should be limitless and there is enough to go around for everyone.

[sone]

Just by the way, we don't know that James changed himself in order to win Lily over. Well that is my opinion on the subject based on what we saw in the pensieve especially as people think it is more than enough to prove Ron and Hermione. Either way, James head deflated and he stopped bullying people before he went out with Lily. He made changes in his behavior and whether he did it for Lily or not, I suspect that she noticed nevertheless.

I'm not Ron's number one fan, but I wish his detractors would spare their bile for the really evil people. Of course he's better off than Harry, but can you blame him for coveting what he spent his childhood lacking? Yes, I can because he is not willing to work for what he wants. That typical boy argument is an insult and a excuse more than anything. Ron is not the only one who had to compete with brothers, he is not the only one that is poor. Ron accepted from the beginning that if he accomplished anything, no one would care or notice, but that is simply not true. Harry and Hermione cared. They noticed. The whole of Gryffindor sure as hell cared and noticed when he won the Quidditch Cup. Charlie, Percy, the twins all had to make their mark too and they didn't do it by complaining all the time about what they do not have as far as we know. They took what they had and did the best they can with it. Ron would of never had the game of his life if Angelina had let him resign. Thank goodness she didn't. Ron wants fame, popularity and all that but as soon as he spots trouble, he wants to give up and whenever he is given a little bit of glory he overindulges himself.

[stormcat_5000]

UM..... I am new here so plz forgive me if i do somethong wrong!

the only sympathy i have for Ron is that in every year his role seems to be diminishing! :sad: and there is need for improvement in his character, meaning he need confidence and charm! :shrug: .he seems to be left out by his friends too often lately i just think he needs to be more active more often

[anstar]

I expect to see Ron mature drastically over the course of the sixth year. He will now be the only Weasley boy at Hogwarts. No more twins to dog his every movement and make him feel insecure. He craves their approval and fears being made fun of by them and consequently, is very unsure of himself with them around. I think they were his biggest roadblock to maturity and self confidence. Percy was not that big a factor in his mind because Percy wasn't "cool" and "popular" and something he wanted to live up to. Recall how he was able to eventually relax and become a better and more confident Quidditch player after the twins (and Harry) were banned? He just needs a chance to "grow into his own". Once he builds some confidence, he'll be less of a prat. (I hope.) :)

I also think that Harry could handle a Ron/Hermione relationship and keep the trio intact, but Ron would not be able to handle a Harry/Hermione relationship. That would break the trio apart, and no matter how many people say, "Who cares", or "So be it", the story is about the three of them. Ron leaving and leaving the "hero/heroine" to conquer the world is not what the story is about.

[_spongebob_]

The thing is though, yes you say all this stuff about oh, Ron deserves it, but thats not really the question in hand, is it? If Hermione can notice that Ron is a real person and potentially more than a friend instead of Silly Old Ron, then I'm sure they'll make a great couple. I fully agree with your comments about Neville as well, because all though maybe it is 100% relevant, Neville plays an important part in the book I don't think even he realizes. I think he's really really important to the story because he might still be the one in the prophecy though perhaps JK would have revealed it by now. Dumbledore must have told both sets of parents because as a result, the Potters went into hiding. I think that the reason the Longbottom's didn't was because they were aurors and Voldemorte was in power, Death Eaters were everywhere. Perhaps they felt they needed to stay and do their job. Instead, they thought to protect baby Neville by putting him under a very strong memory charm, so he couldn’t tap into or ‘remember’ his magic. They didn’t tell anyone, that we know of. The Grandmother certainly doesn’t know – I don’t think I would have told her either. But, there’s always a ‘but’, Mr. & Mrs. Longbottom didn’t count on how powerful a wizard Neville was going to be. The charm worked for years, until he was about to become part of the pavement under a tall window – then he bounced. Think about it, Neville was born at the same time as Harry, so his stars were calling for a powerful wizard and his parents were both very powerful wizards or they wouldn’t have gotten their job. Neville’s power goes haywire because it overflows, after being cooped up with the charm that is still on him. Think of book 1 when the children are being given flying lessons. Neville doesn’t do anything but mount his broom and the thing takes off. We all get side tracked because of his injury and Draco’s antics that we don’t pay to much attention to the fact that the boy soared around like that without so much as one lesson before. And did you notice that the next thing Harry is doing is saving Neville’s remembrall?
Now, looking at book 5, when Neville visits his parents, his mother make an effort to give Neville a bubble gum wrapper. JKR likes gum, just check out her website, so this is a good thing she is giving Neville. She also gives him these often, so she must think they are important. I feel this is part of the clue. After all, she would need to continue to keep up the memory charm, if she hadn’t been cursed herself. Maybe Neville’s candy had a little spell on it? She’s a mother, trying to make sure her child doesn’t fall into Voldemort’s hands. Curse or no curse, she is still trying to help Neville.
That was kind of random but I think Ginny and Neville would make a nice couple. Perhaps it's just the Yule ball thing, but you know.

[HPChuffy]

Ron has a nice family, 2 best friends who stick up for him and help him whenever and wherever. And even if there will be a h/hr (I don't think so though...), I still don't have sympathy for him, he should be happy for them. Yes, sometimes I have sympathy for him, who hasn't, but in general... no.
I do have sympathy for Neville, like a lot of you have. That poor guy, he really needs some friends :sad: .

[dobydoo]

Why do we (H/Hr shippers) compare Ron to other characters for sympathy here? Well, let's look at the very first post on this thread.

ok i know this isn't a predicition thread i would just like to make all those in favour of h/hr to be a little more sensetive to ron's emotions!
We are all aware of Ron's feelings towards Hr and also his resentment to H for being better than him at everything[I]!

First of all, not everyone agrees that Ron likes Hermione in a romantic way. There have been some good essays written about this.

And we also get the first comparison, about Ron not being as good at stuff as Harry. Did a H/Hr shipper make this, nope. And isn't Ron better at chess?


Something tells me a H/Hr coupling would be a major blow to his confidence. Hr sees herself Ron's superior in every sense and would never consider going out with Ron (not only becuase hes ginger [joke]) but as she has already noted his undeveloped emotions and insensitivity.

This is about Ron getting what Ron wants, which he already has. Look at what he saw in the Mirror of Erised, he got it.

And then this post compares Hermione to Ron. Once again, not done by a H/Hr shipper.

Ron has his heart set on Hr and thats why the only other interest in a girl hes shown is a veela. Ron probably feels a little overshadowed by the fact harry has had a girlfriend-thing (Cho) and he still hasn't.

Once again, a comparison is made to Harry and how Ron has it so bad.

I think Harry is going to have a lot more girlfriends before he finds the key to the door in the ministry, and i doubt he would go near Hr for Ron's sake at least.

Because Ron has it worse than Harry?

So basically, why is anyone complaining about comparisons being made about Ron to show that he does not have it as bad as he thinks, when the initial post was comparing how bad Ron has it compared to Harry?

Of course the person never mentioned Ron's loving family, a normal and healthy childhood, knowing his parents, lack of the most evil wizard in the world is bound and determined to kill him.

So once again, why should we have sympathy for Ron when compared to other characters (just basing this idea off of the inital post)?

[nrogara]

Well first of all I wouldn't consider what I wrote a complaint. More of an observation based on what people wrote here and as I said what I've read in other threads/forums. As this does still deal with Ron and sympathy consider what I wrote an extension of the those ideas - a slight tangent if you will. Especially as if I started a new topic with the thoughts I put forth it probably would have been closed with a notice that this was being discussed in this thread. Many threads start with something and evolve into a further discussion than just the idea brought out by the first post. That's what I was trying to do. See if people can look at Ron's life, and his alone, and see if there is anything that people might feel sympathy or compassion for him. Because it seems that many people cannot look at his life without comparing it to someone else's. But Ron isn't living their life and they aren't living his.

[faded264]

I also think that Harry could handle a Ron/Hermione relationship and keep the trio intact, but Ron would not be able to handle a Harry/Hermione relationship. That would break the trio apart, and no matter how many people say, "Who cares", or "So be it", the story is about the three of them. Ron leaving and leaving the "hero/heroine" to conquer the world is not what the story is about.
Sorry this is off topic.

The story is not entirely about the trio. The story is about Harry's road to conquering Voldemort. Harry could have other friends, but it would not change the purpose of the story: to show the struggles a hero faces in war. Friends affect some aspects of the story, but ultimately this is Harry's story.

[Danluver182]

Hm. Yes he is the main character but it's about so much more than just him.
I'm a huge R/Hr shipper. I'm sure they will get together but maybe not until their 7th year. Harry will be able to handle it...and if he can't at first he will learn. It's just a part of growing up and as we saw in the last book that's exactly what he's having to do.

[Katarzyna]

But with fame and recognition, there are downfalls of that as seen in OOTP and GOF.
I'm really surprised that Ron, after having spent so much time with Harry, still hasn't really picked up on that. One would think Ron would realize just how difficult it is to be Famous Harry Potter, and begin to count his own blessings.

But then, he is only 15 years old.

[dobydoo]

Well first of all I wouldn't consider what I wrote a complaint. More of an observation based on what people wrote here and as I said what I've read in other threads/forums. As this does still deal with Ron and sympathy consider what I wrote an extension of the those ideas - a slight tangent if you will. Especially as if I started a new topic with the thoughts I put forth it probably would have been closed with a notice that this was being discussed in this thread. Many threads start with something and evolve into a further discussion than just the idea brought out by the first post. That's what I was trying to do. See if people can look at Ron's life, and his alone, and see if there is anything that people might feel sympathy or compassion for him. Because it seems that many people cannot look at his life without comparing it to someone else's. But Ron isn't living their life and they aren't living his.

I understand what you were saying, but I just think you should put it into context with how the thread was started, and how many people respond to it. It is pointed out time and time again that Ron is not as good as Harry in quidditch, and he's not rich or famous. So if those are the basis of sympathy for Ron, I think you should take a full look at his situation.

I mean, how bad does Ron truly have it. Yes, he has hand me downs, but he has a family. His family is well off enough to send their children to Hogwarts. Ron has many friends and is the best chess player (or so it seemed after PS/SS. He also had a great and loving upbringing.

If the original posters were comparing Ron to Harry and using that why Ron should get sympathy, I think they should take a full look. I would say Harry has it worse (I think most people logically would), and Neville also has it worse.

So by using their standards, I would say that Ron would deserve the least amount of sympathy.

[bethp]

I don't think Ron needs our sympathy.

First I don't see ANY indication that HP and HG will get together...point:
1. Cos: when HG returns from the hospital she runs in, gives Harry a big hug and then in an awkward moment both HG and RW get a bit embarassed and instead of hug shake hands.

2. Bickering...no one bickers more than RW and HG....they also pick on each other constantly...these are sure signs of romantic interest when you are talking about kids 11-15 or so...

3. Harry KNOWS that Ron like Hermione and vice versa....in GoF when they all return from the ball, RW and HG are arguing about her going to the ball with Krum and in the end HG storms out, RW says something like "she missed the whole point" and Harry thinks to himslef the HG got the point better than RW did....he knows that the only reason HG went out with Krum was because RW NEVER even thought to ask her out...she was trying to make him jealous. Harry will be fine if they get together - he is expecting it.

Ron has also come into his own - he has the making of being an excellent Quidditch keeper, and he was made a prefect. He also is a bit older now and realizes what it means to have Harry's "fame"...the downside of it.

All in all Ron is a nice, well adjusted adolescent with a great family and the normal problems facing any kid from a large family. The most I would wish for Ron was a few more galleons:-) other than that his life is pretty perfect.

[dobydoo]

Is this supposed to be a love thread for only R/Hr? I thought this was supposed to be about Ron deserving sympathy.

Why does the sympathy Ron "deserves" have to be in the form of a R/Hr relationship. Ron can only find happiness in Hermione?

Anywhoo, we should realy stick to what this thread is supposed to be about, and not an exclusive love thread for R/Hr.

[v@sh]

I've seen this touched upon in other areas and it seems many people always come back to comparing Ron to another character and then judging him based off that other person's woes. If the other person is found to have it worse in some way then they deserve sympathy and Ron doesn't. Do people really dole out sympathy like that? Do they compare everyone against everyone else and when they find someone more 'deserving' they no longer have sympathy or other feelings for the first person? Why does Ron have to be a more tragic figure than anyone else for him to deserve any sympathy or whatever? I would find that exhausting to have to constantly compare people.

Do I have any sympathy for Ron? Sure. I have sympathy for things that hurt or effect him negatively in his life. Emphasis being his life - not anyone elses. I mean all in all I think he's got a great life for the most part, but hardly perfect. I don't think anyone could ever have the perfect life that would never be touched by adversity, hardships or pressure. Especially viewed from the eyes of a teenager that he is. Let's see, there's his self-consciousness of his being poor. Hardly something to call out the Red Cross for but a very real thing and anyone who has faced the same would probably know. I'm sorry that his family has had a rift in it now. His OOC reaction to Percy's letter shows how much that really got to him. I could go on and list things but what would be the point? There are different things I can and do have sympathy for Ron. But that doesn't I don't have sympathy for other characters as well. But I find it absurd to compare his life to anyone elses and base judgement off that. What's the point?

I guess the thing is I don't think feelings like sympathy and compassion are limited emotions and if one person takes up more, because they are more tragic or something, than someone else shouldn't get any. Sympathy and compassion should be limitless and there is enough to go around for everyone.


Part of that is true, because we compare to justify our reasons. But what your implying here is that we are saying that Ron doesn't deserve sympathy at all when looked at the other characters. Which is not the case. On a greater level of things i.e. looking at their lives as a whole, and you compare the characters then you can easily see why Ron is less "deserving" of sympathy than other characters - not as in day-to-day basis, but life but as a whole. That is the point of comparing the lives of other characters, to illustrate why one deserves more sympathy on the whole scheme of things. Sure we sympathise with them daily over their failures or let downs - no one will argue that unless they just hate Ron full stop. We show enough sympathy of the characters on a day-to-day basis but less when you see the bigger things.

Given the example where you showed that the whole Percy thing has gotten to Ron - as well as the other Weasleys, there is no doubt I give sympathy to Ron and his family, but if you compare it to Harry for e.g. Would you give greater sympathy go Ron whos brother deserts the family because of the love of his job or greater sympathy for Harry because he has lost his godfather? Surely there'll be sympathy for Ron, but you would give greater sympathy to Harry wouldn't you?

We give sympathy to all the characters, no matter how good their life is or isn't, but there are some others that deserve greater sympathy than Ron because of the experiences they have had to go through in life.

[dobydoo]

Exactly Vosh. But how this thread has been started (by R/Hr shippers none-the-less) was comparing "poor" Ron to Harry. How Harry gets everything and Ron would have nothing if R/Hr didn't happen.

[darklordspal]

Hello,

To Sone,

My impression is that Ron insults your sensibilties more than he insults Hermoine's. Hermoine seems to have forgiven him, but apparently you can't. They seem to be friends in OoTP. She doesn't seem to be avoiding him. Maybe she is planning to feed him to the Giant Squid when he least expects it.

Hermoine:"Hey Ronnikins, why don't we go for a stroll down by the lake; just by ourselves...?"

Ron:"Glub..Glub...."

To other posters,

I really don't want to feel sympathy for Ron. He is to proud to want it anyway.

I admire his character b\c he seems to want to be more than the "sidekick", which is way out of stereotype. He also seems to be a brave and noble fellow with just enough human frailties to make him interesting. I guess some ppl have no patience with that.

I have noticed that when any one mentions that Ron is on the Good side and might be an alright guy certain posters show up to take their shots for whatever reasons they may have at Ron. I have a feeling that if Hermoine could hear you talking like that you would be spitting up slugs for awhile;).

[dobydoo]

I would say that people bring up some of Ron's bad aspects is b/c when someone brings up his good ones, he still needs sympathy. I don't buy it. I just think once Ron realizes that he actually has it pretty good, he will be much better off.

I would say the biggest problem is that some people get hooked into feeling bad for Ron when there really is not that much to feel bad about. He has family and really good friends. He got what he wanted by being prefect and winning the house cup.

Ron has got almost everything he ever wanted, but yet people still seem to pity him. How does this make sense?

[Heatherhobbit]

Well, he won't have any older siblings around, he'll most likely stay prefect, and is now on the Quidditch team. And I think Luna will be crushing on him a little. It will all make him more confident. I think he will probably get good owl scores too. He'll realize he's not as dumb as he thought. I don't want this to turn into another love thread, but I have to mention. Confidence is one of the main reasons he hasn't made a move on Hermione yet.

[darklordspal]

I just remembered that at the end of OoTP while the Crew is recovering in the hospital (from Harry's less than effective attempt at Heroism at the DOM) that the text says something about Ron's wounds being the worse b\c "thoughts cause the most pain", or something like that. I wonder if JKR wasn't making a sly remark about some of the Ron-bashers out there. Maybe its a way of saying readers are missing out on some of the fun of the series with their dislike of Ron.

To Dobydoo,

Spoken like my favorite Drill Instructor.

[dobydoo]

I just remembered that at the end of OoTP while the Crew is recovering in the hospital (from Harry's less than effective attempt at Heroism at the DOM) that the text says something about Ron's wounds being the worse b\c "thoughts cause the most pain", or something like that. I wonder if JKR wasn't making a sly remark about some of the Ron-bashers out there. Maybe its a way of saying readers are missing out on some of the fun of the series with their dislike of Ron.

To Dobydoo,

Spoken like my favorite Drill Instructor.

Is this whole thing to me? If so, I do not get it. I like Ron's character, just not the idea of R/Hr together. I think R/L would be great and funny.

[darklordspal]

To Dobydoo,

No, just the remark at the bottom. I know certain DI's that, if you came to them with your arm cut off and your leg broken, they would tell you to stop being a whinner. It was just a joke. I figure that is what you are saying about Ron.

The other was just thrown out as a thought to ponder at anyone's convenience.

I have no Problem with R|L either. But I also have no problem with R\Hr. I think that could be funny and cute also.

[nrogara]

Given the example where you showed that the whole Percy thing has gotten to Ron - as well as the other Weasleys, there is no doubt I give sympathy to Ron and his family, but if you compare it to Harry for e.g. Would you give greater sympathy go Ron whos brother deserts the family because of the love of his job or greater sympathy for Harry because he has lost his godfather? Surely there'll be sympathy for Ron, but you would give greater sympathy to Harry wouldn't you?

We give sympathy to all the characters, no matter how good their life is or isn't, but there are some others that deserve greater sympathy than Ron because of the experiences they have had to go through in life.


The thing is, that's just now how I think. I guess it's just something different in me that I never realized other people might not be the same. I obviously have sympathy for both. But I would never think to compare sympathy and judge who deserves it more and who should get more of it. I don't think if sympathy in terms of degrees or levels or anything that measures it. It's just there and boundless to whomever I feel it for for whatever reasons.

[Carina]

I feel sorry for Ron abit. Yes, the hand-me-downs, expectations etc that he has experienced his whole life...but it's human nature to think that the grass is greener on the other side.
I don't think Ron befriended Harry because he was "the boy who lived". Even if Harry wasn't Harry Potter, a friendship would have evolved between the kids.

[Reverie]

I wouldn't feel as much sympthy for Ron like I do with other characters like Harry or Neville because to me Ron doesn't have much of a problem. Just the fact that he needs to appriciate what he has, his friends and family, and be confident about his abilities. Thats all he needs really if he works hard he could also find himself in a pile of galleons that way he wouldn't have to wish for it. I think he does deserve his share sympathy though but not for long, at least not for these reasons, because he'll eventually grow out of it.

[faded264]

I just remembered that at the end of OoTP while the Crew is recovering in the hospital (from Harry's less than effective attempt at Heroism at the DOM) that the text says something about Ron's wounds being the worse b\c "thoughts cause the most pain", or something like that. I wonder if JKR wasn't making a sly remark about some of the Ron-bashers out there. Maybe its a way of saying readers are missing out on some of the fun of the series with their dislike of Ron.
Actually she said that "thoughts could leave deeper scarring than almost anything else". I really don't think that Rowling writes remarks into the books to teach us that bashing characters makes us miss out on the fun. Besides, no one in here is bashing Ron's character; we were just deciding if he deserved sympathy or not.

[RyuKid]

I wouldn't feel as much sympthy for Ron like I do with other characters like Harry or Neville because to me Ron doesn't have much of a problem. Just the fact that he needs to appriciate what he has, his friends and family, and be confident about his abilities. Thats all he needs really if he works hard he could also find himself in a pile of galleons that way he wouldn't have to wish for it. I think he does deserve his share sympathy though but not for long, at least not for these reasons, because he'll eventually grow out of it.

Exactly, there are much more people in the book who have bigger problems then him (Like Neville, whose parents are in St. Mungo, and Harry who has no parents at all). Also Hermoine has her own share of problems of being muggle born, and being ridiculed about it (being called a mud-blood).
But I guess a little sympathy for Ron is needed because he does get made fun of seeing how hes from a big family with little money

[SaraLoony]

I find it really hard to compare situations and feel sympathy for only those who have bigger problems. It's like , "oh sure Ron has some problems, but Neville and Harry have bigger problems, so Ron doesn't deserve sympathy." Why does it have to be sympathy for one or the other? Why not both? I don't know about everyone else, but when I feel sorry for a person, I don't instantly compare them with other situations and think about which one is more sad. Sympathy is a human emotion that can't be controlled according to who has bigger problems or who "deserves" it the most. Nobody has a chart in their head about "who deserves my sympathy and why." You either feel sorry for someone or you don't, regardless of how big or small or silly their problems are. So yeah, I do feel sorry for Ron sometimes and I also feel sorry for Neville and Harry and Luna too. And, I don't ever really think about whether they deserve sympathy or not, before I feel sorry for them, it just happens. Yes, Neville and Harry have much more to deal with than Ron or Luna, but that doesn't mean that Ron and Luna don't deserve sympathy. Another thing is, and I know somebody mentioned this before, but, self pity is completely normal, especially for teenagers. Everyone goes through a "nobody understands" or "the world is against me" stage.

[sone]

My impression is that Ron insults your sensibilties more than he insults Hermoine's. Hermoine seems to have forgiven him, but apparently you can't. :huh: :huh: My most recent post about Ron really had little to nothing to do with Hermione. I was talking about Ron only. If you have a problem with how I criticize Ron in regards to Hermione then let me know through an owl or something, but I have no idea where you got the Hermione bit from.

[~Tonks~]

I feel some sympathy for ron. It must be hard being in the shadows of 5 kids. As well as being that poor. But at the same time I think he has it better than he realizes. He's got a family who loves him dearly. I think he worries too much about how poor he is. I also really don't feel sympathetic for him in terms of being in Harry's shadow. I don't think Harry exactly relishes his notoriety...

[v@sh]

The thing is, that's just now how I think. I guess it's just something different in me that I never realized other people might not be the same. I obviously have sympathy for both. But I would never think to compare sympathy and judge who deserves it more and who should get more of it. I don't think if sympathy in terms of degrees or levels or anything that measures it. It's just there and boundless to whomever I feel it for for whatever reasons.


Its not that I actually think like that when I read the books. I only look at this analytical stuff afterwards, cos really at the time of reading I don't take notice that Harry deserves more sympathy than Ron or whichever. I'm too immersed in the book to even think about it, which is why its fun afterwards to look at things in greater detail. I think there are some things you can compare in the series, its just a matter of the fine line between comparing what is realistic and what is not.

[Toltec_7]

Sympathy For Ron?

No not at all, Ron has it in his power to change his situation for the better. Harry & Neville on the other hand do not have this advantage.


That would break the trio apart, and no matter how many people say, "Who cares", or "So be it", the story is about the three of them. Ron leaving and leaving the "hero/heroine" to conquer the world is not what the story is about.
No it's not, the story is about "Harry just Harry" every other charactor is just there to either help or try to prevent Harrys progress in life. This story is a coming of age story about Harry Potter, not Ron Weasley or Hermione Granger.


Hm. Yes he is the main character but it's about so much more than just him.
Once again no it's not, it's about "Harry just Harry"

I think people love Ron to much and seem to forget that this is not about him at all. If I was big Ron fan I would be a bit worried right now about "poor ickle ronnie kins". Did you not notice how much went his way in OOTP, very unlike J.K.R if you ask me. I can see the low coming after the high.

[dobydoo]

I find it really hard to compare situations and feel sympathy for only those who have bigger problems. It's like , "oh sure Ron has some problems, but Neville and Harry have bigger problems, so Ron doesn't deserve sympathy." Why does it have to be sympathy for one or the other? Why not both? I don't know about everyone else, but when I feel sorry for a person, I don't instantly compare them with other situations and think about which one is more sad. Sympathy is a human emotion that can't be controlled according to who has bigger problems or who "deserves" it the most. Nobody has a chart in their head about "who deserves my sympathy and why." You either feel sorry for someone or you don't, regardless of how big or small or silly their problems are. So yeah, I do feel sorry for Ron sometimes and I also feel sorry for Neville and Harry and Luna too. And, I don't ever really think about whether they deserve sympathy or not, before I feel sorry for them, it just happens. Yes, Neville and Harry have much more to deal with than Ron or Luna, but that doesn't mean that Ron and Luna don't deserve sympathy. Another thing is, and I know somebody mentioned this before, but, self pity is completely normal, especially for teenagers. Everyone goes through a "nobody understands" or "the world is against me" stage.

I agree its stupid to compare people's places to see if they deserve sympathy. But this entire thread was started by stating how Ron has it worse than Harry, and therefore deserves sympathy. So I think it is very fair to point out that Ron has it better than Harry. And by using that same thinking, then Harry would deserve it. I (and others who point this out) did not start the comparison aspect, people claiming that Ron as it sooooo bad did.

[RemusLupinFan]

While I do not believe that Ron has it worse than Harry, I do feel a bit bad for him in certain situations. But then again, I have felt bad for nearly every character at some point or another throughout the series. The main parts where I felt sympathy for Ron were:
-where he was overshadowed by Harry's fame (through it was no fault of Harry's)
-because he comes from a family that isn't very well off and is teased about it by Malfoy/Slytherins
-because he is overshadowed at times by his older siblings and feels the need to prove himself

[nrogara]

I find it really hard to compare situations and feel sympathy for only those who have bigger problems. It's like , "oh sure Ron has some problems, but Neville and Harry have bigger problems, so Ron doesn't deserve sympathy." Why does it have to be sympathy for one or the other? Why not both? I don't know about everyone else, but when I feel sorry for a person, I don't instantly compare them with other situations and think about which one is more sad. Sympathy is a human emotion that can't be controlled according to who has bigger problems or who "deserves" it the most. Nobody has a chart in their head about "who deserves my sympathy and why." You either feel sorry for someone or you don't, regardless of how big or small or silly their problems are. So yeah, I do feel sorry for Ron sometimes and I also feel sorry for Neville and Harry and Luna too. And, I don't ever really think about whether they deserve sympathy or not, before I feel sorry for them, it just happens. Yes, Neville and Harry have much more to deal with than Ron or Luna, but that doesn't mean that Ron and Luna don't deserve sympathy. Another thing is, and I know somebody mentioned this before, but, self pity is completely normal, especially for teenagers. Everyone goes through a "nobody understands" or "the world is against me" stage.


Excellent post. I feel much the same way.

[v@sh]

Originally Posted by SaraLoony
I find it really hard to compare situations and feel sympathy for only those who have bigger problems. It's like , "oh sure Ron has some problems, but Neville and Harry have bigger problems, so Ron doesn't deserve sympathy." Why does it have to be sympathy for one or the other? Why not both? I don't know about everyone else, but when I feel sorry for a person, I don't instantly compare them with other situations and think about which one is more sad. Sympathy is a human emotion that can't be controlled according to who has bigger problems or who "deserves" it the most. Nobody has a chart in their head about "who deserves my sympathy and why." You either feel sorry for someone or you don't, regardless of how big or small or silly their problems are. So yeah, I do feel sorry for Ron sometimes and I also feel sorry for Neville and Harry and Luna too. And, I don't ever really think about whether they deserve sympathy or not, before I feel sorry for them, it just happens. Yes, Neville and Harry have much more to deal with than Ron or Luna, but that doesn't mean that Ron and Luna don't deserve sympathy. Another thing is, and I know somebody mentioned this before, but, self pity is completely normal, especially for teenagers. Everyone goes through a "nobody understands" or "the world is against me" stage.


Well said. But like I've mentioned before that because of the comparisons doesn't mean you can't have sympathy for both, as I explained to nrogara my reasoning for comparing. But we don't compare at the time of reading the books.

[Liv4Sirius]

I've avoided posting on this thread because I kept thinking the Mods would delete because it didn't belong here,but I can't resist now! I don't think anyone needs to have any sympathy for ron, or anyone in HP books because i'm more than positive that if JK decides to pair Ron/Hermione or Harry/Hermione i'm sure she'll give Ron or Harry someone else.

[v@sh]

I've avoided posting on this thread because I kept thinking the Mods would delete because it didn't belong here,but I can't resist now! I don't think anyone needs to have any sympathy for ron, or anyone in HP books because i'm more than positive that if JK decides to pair Ron/Hermione or Harry/Hermione i'm sure she'll give Ron or Harry someone else.


I personally don't think that this has much to do with the romantic pairings at all. Even though there are some who can't resist to put it up.

[Neon]

I personally don't think that this has much to do with the romantic pairings at all. Even though there are some who can't resist to put it up.
Yeah; well some individuals are bound to bring up shipping the discussion, as the accusation in the first post brought it into the discussion. I'm not suggesting all, but some people do use it as a way to sympathize with Ron, or be specifically hard on him, depending on the ship, so its bound to be brought up.

As to sympathizing with Ron... I have trouble doing so, and not necessarily because there isn't enough pity to go around, but because i don't happen to believe Ron has many legitimate reasons to need others sympathy. I don't think having a lot of brothers is a reason to feel sorry for him, nor do i believe his insecurities over Harry getting everything warrant sympathy on my part. [Shrugs]

I'm probably just insensitive :p

[stormcat_5000]

I think everyone deserves some form of sympathy! i mean all the character's have some kind of sadness inside of them.Harry wants family and he cant have it, hermione wants social acceptance she does not get it , ron wants fame,he does not get it ,neville wants happiness, he does not get it.Luna wants true friendsb she does not get them.Ginny wants to be taken seriously she does not get it!

Ron in particular is different from other characters as he has everything but not the thing he wants most, fame or recognition elude him. sure some characters have it harder than him, but individualy ron is picture of minimalism, I mean he is a nothing
It is true if you read the books in random order .then you realise he really is not needed most of the time. the story could have gone on without him. Except in PS/SS where he actually does something for Harry.

[Epiphany]

I personally don't think Ron deserves to be pitied - much because I'm not inclined to pity anyone without a very good reason; and also because I don't think it's good for that person.

Ron's deepest desire in PS was to be the best of all his brothers put together. He always has to compare himself to the others about money and fame. But never does he think, hey, I have a great family, we all love each other very much - and I have great friends, who will always be there for me and will never let me down.

He goes too often on his Jealousy mode. For things that aren't that important in life. How much it eats him is easy to see. He let's the one he calls his best friend down in GoF because he is jealous of his 'fame'. He couldn't understand that this friend didn't want it at all - and that it made him unhappy.

He says he isn't good at school - when does he make an effort? A real one? He often calls what he learns "rubbish", and copies notes from others. You can't expect to attain the top if you do that.

IMO, he has to work on his jealousy problem. He really has to realise that to be happy, he has to stop comparing himself to the others, and see what he has - and cherish it, because it is worth more than money or fame.

Ron is a good guy. He has flaws, and this is his biggest one. I certainly don't hate the character. But I will never pity him.

[dobydoo]

Amen epiphany.

[tonks181]

sympathy for ron? d-uh why? i know i'm being obstinately dense but i really don't feel the need to pity ron when there're other people around who deserve sympathy more than him? i mean, why would i waste my reserves of sympathy on ron of all people?
yeah i know i've really explanatory and extremely logical so far, but i'll blubber from now on.
first, i agree it really doesn't sit healthy on ron to play sidekick to a boy wonder and the dumb guy for miss know-it-all's repartees. but i don't think that makes him overly tragic. nor does his being the last in a line of some very smart kids who've carved a niche for themselves. if the rest can find their groove, it's just a matter of time before ron gets his. seems like he's already getting the limelight he desired so much(quidditch hero and all)

these are just adoloscent problems and i reckon ron's made of stronger stuff than he thinks and will come through it fine.about ron deserving hermione, well, i'm baffled about that statement. relationships just don't work out that way. if hermione ever got drawn towards ron just because he deserved it or just because she felt sorry for him, that relationship just wouldn't last long. and come to think of it hermione wouldn't exactly be a tonic to ron's often hurt ego, would she?

i came across a piece of writing in one of the love threads which discussed luna's chances with ron. and described luna as a morale booster to ron. that makes a lot of sense if you really want to endorse this 'poor ron' theory.

as loads of posts've stated ron has all that a child could possibly hope for; a loving family, a roof over the head, and sufficient food in the mouth. if you've noticed, for all that ron complains of his poverty, the weasleys have been able to afford all the necessities and some extras too. they just don't stack away much. that's all.

and so what if he's got brothers who're all remarkable in some way? it should only give him more confidence in his innate abilities and inspire him on to better heights.

if you argue that he's buckling under the weight of expectations, still someday he'll come to know his limits and know what's beyond him and what's not. hardly a serious problem considering his close friends and his brothers always pull him up when the chips are down. don't conclude that i don't like ron , but if he could be so sensitive about his feelings, he should also learn to be a bit more considerate towards other people's feelings.if you'd call fred and george cruel just because they're generally witty and tad sharp tongued, then ron's comments on hermione/krum, eloise midgeon etc, don't really dance upto the brim with milk of kindness. if he can't take a few derisive comments he should also cease to make them himself.


in fact i consider him really fortunate as opposed to lot of other people . harry, as befitting the role of a tragic hero's suffered immensely right from the day he lost his parents.
and then come hogwarts, here we all know what he's been through, and most recently losing sirius which was the last straw that broke him down completely. he's been through a lot and till his fifth year when circumstances became too damning, he never uttered a word of complaint.

neville, well harry himself feels neville's life's sorrier than his own.

and if you really want to feel sorry for the underdogs, then you might do better channelising your sympathies towards luna. but i daresay she does she does not need them because she seems to respond to any kind of taunt ever so blissfully and any amount of sarcasm and jeering seems lost on her. i guess she's happy with her lot. but i have a feeling, underneath the composed exterior , somewhere in the depths of her heart she's aware she's an oddball who's the joke of the day and i'm hazarding a guess that it might hurt too, how much,i can't fathom. i can't help feeling sorry for her, anyway.


and another person who i think deserves all sympathy in the world is tom riddle. no, i'm not the devil's advocate, i said tom riddle, not lord voldemort. i know it's your choices that make what you are, but his childhood does seem really tragic. what he went on to become later is another issue altogether, but his childhood does evoke copious amount of pity in me.

i know i've over reacted to the thread, i knowit's not a question of who's to be pitied more, but i thought it a waste of time to shed tears over ron's ordinary teen life when there're so many 'deserving' people around to carry the mantle of ' poor kid'.

[sirius'swife]

i agree with tonks....to have sympathy for someone is to mean that they are somehow...unsatisfactory and i dont think ron is unsatisfactory at all.
all the weasleys have sharp tongues( i reckon you do need it if you need to make urself heard over the din of a large family) and if the twins have hurt ron with their teasing im sure ron can cope....that doesnt mean he cant let it get to him sometimes. that is but human. especially comments abt something like quidditch, abt which he is so sensitive. and the twins are also a bit of quidditch heroes in the gryffindor house arent they? and the thing is- the twins never mean any harm by what they say. they're just ur typical older brothers. and i didnt really see him overact to the extent some ppl say he did. he has complained abt his money problem, only a handful of times in the entire series so far- i think it is only when harry feels guilty around them that the point is emphasized. ron is too proud to talk abt it all the time
and i agree with whole ron deserving hermoine comment- that is just plain ridiculous. hermoine isnt a prize to go to the winner. she will chose whomever she likes. and so will ron and harry for that matter. and while i like the idea of luna/ron....i dont know if it'll happen. usually, if jk introduces the vague feeling that some character fancies the other- she takes it to its end.
i mean with harry and cho- id all but written them off after the events at the end of gof. id even thought that harry wouldnt want to think abt cho at all. but look what happened. however ill-fated it was, it ran its course and now harry is over her. i can see something of the sort happening with ron and luna(luna is certainly the type to casually pop by the gryffindor table and bamboozle ron into a date with her- and id cheer her on) but i guess this isnt a romance thread is it?
ultimately ron doesnt warrant any sympathy cuz there is nothing wrong with him. he is simply stellar the way he is. he has his issues, but then again who doesnt. and he is showing progress, he is working through those issues. he is maturing with age. and i think that is all we can ask for.

[Apathy]

I think that you can wish Ron luck, and hope that fate and JKR is kind to him, but in the end I think that the world will be lucky if the Trio survives intact. I will be unhappy in the end, but I think one of the three will be the sacrificial lamb.

[Remus Black]

I hope R/HR end up together. I think Harry should be with someone more similiar to him.

[dobydoo]

I hope R/HR end up together. I think Harry should be with someone more similiar to him.

This is a perfect example of why I do not understand this thread. Is it supposed to be about the merits of Ron deserving sympathy, does Ron have it worse than Harry, or a just a R/Hr shipping thread?

What the heck is going on in this thread?

[MoodyMania]

I hope R/HR end up together. I think Harry should be with someone more similiar to him.
There is a Love Thread and these sentiments (hopefully with some canon facts to back up your wishes) should be posted there.

I don't think Ron deserves sympathy. What is so bad about his life to be deserving of it?

1. He says he is poor. But I notice they have a house to live in. They always eat well. He has clothes and needed school supplies. Even some extras like a new broom. They don't sounf rich but they definately don't sound poor.

2. He comes from a large family. So, just how is that a bad thing? He has a lot of people to love him and support him when needed. His biggest problem seems to be his being teased by the twins. But this would happen even if it was only him and them.

Ron's problem seems to be that he is a pretty average person like most others are. But he wants to be something he isn't...Rich and famous. There is nothing bad about this as long as he doesn't let it go to far like Percy has.

Deserving of sympathy? No, I don't think so.

[moon781]

I am not really sure what this thread is all about but I will say this, I love Ron and I do fell sympathy for him because he is always overlooked and blends into the background. He never gets the attention and sometimes u just need to paid attention to.

However if we are putting things in perspective then Ron doesnt need sympathy because he has a family that loves him and good friends where as everything catastrophic seems to happen to Harry

[Shauna]

I honestly don't think that Ron needs anyone's sympathy, as much as he would like it. He just doesn't get enough attention as he would like from his family, but that happens to a lot of people. What he needs to do is learn to suck it up, honestly. He has friends that would do anything for him, and a family that loves him. Harry doesn't mean to put him in his shadow, and Fred and Geroge do love him as much as they tease him. If that is the worst that he has to deal with, then he needs to get a grip and stop wallowing in self-pity.

Shauna

[dobydoo]

Exactly moon781. and let's not forget Neville who has only recieved positive attention once during Hogwarts (getting the winning 10 points in PS/SS -- I think the best thing DD has done so far), and more than anyone else when it comes to negative attention. When taking the three main boys (good ones, so not Draco), Ron has it better than the other 2.

[darklordspal]

To Sone,

I was responding to post #35 where you argue that Ron was much meaner to Hermy than James was to Lilly; and I inferred you were trying to say that Ron's behavior was unforgivable.

To Dobydoo,

Since we are talking about a member of the Trio and it is obvious that Ron has a "thing" for Hermy; of course R\Hr is going to come up on occasion. But it doesn't seem to be taking over as the main topic. Why are some ppl upset by the mere mention of R\Hr even in passing as part of a different discussion?

To Shauna,

I don't think Ron "wallows in self pity" any more than Harry tends to let his immaturity get in the way at times. I think they both have noble attributes as well as the outlook of teenage boys. I don't think there is much sympathy shown for Ron by the characters in the book and I don't think he expects it. I don't see Ron complaining more than Harry in OoTP.

This thread about is about whether the readers have any sympathy for Ron. I think some of the posters have applied their lack of sympathy for Ron into a dislike for the character, as though Ron was the one who asked for sympathy. You may find Ron sympathetic, but I really don't see him begging for sympathy from the other characters.

[randomfan86]

I don't think Ron "wallows in self pity" any more than Harry tends to let his immaturity get in the way at times. I think they both have noble attributes as well as the outlook of teenage boys. I don't think there is much sympathy shown for Ron by the characters in the book and I don't think he expects it. I don't see Ron complaining more than Harry in OoTP.



Harry's "immaturity" (if you can even call it that)...is to be expected if you have to deal with the following: crazy dark lord after you....witness the death of someone from said dark lord ....your supposed allies at the ministry calling you a liar.....a headmaster who keeps you in the dark about what's going on while having you do things like spending time with Snape....and no real family for support......

so his self-pitying and bitterness is to be expected...it's less complaining and self-pitying than anyone else would rightfully do...thus, it should be overlooked....at least in my book.

Ron on the otherhand was really immature in book 4...he did fail to realize many things...and I do beleive he has learned his lesson....if you were to ask him by the end of book 5 or 4 for that matter, if he deserved any sympathy...it would be an emphatic NO.

So he won't get any from me.

On the otherhand, if you asked him at by the end of book 5 if Harry deserves sympathy...it would be an emphatic YES

I think Harry is relativly very mature considering the circumstances. He has had to face much adversity from the Dursleys to the crazy dark lord...so he has matured a lot due to these experiences...and has come out a decent person.

[phoenix49]

I think Harry is relativly very mature considering the circumstances. He has had to face much adversity from the Dursleys to the crazy dark lord...so he has matured a lot due to these experiences...and has come out a decent person.

Yea he doesn't hesitate to try to *save* Sirius thinking that Voldemort might kill him. He never thought about the fact that even if his dream was true going alone and challenging Voldemort would get himself killed. Err that's not maturity that is stupidity. Also he didn't seem to realise that his friends were supporting him in book five and he kept suspecting them of thinking he is crazy. I didn't like harry In Book five although he deserved sympathy in the first books.

[dobydoo]

To Dobydoo,

Since we are talking about a member of the Trio and it is obvious that Ron has a "thing" for Hermy; of course R\Hr is going to come up on occasion.

I do not think it is obvious at all. I think Ron has more of brotherly over-protecting relationship w/ Hermione.

But it doesn't seem to be taking over as the main topic. Why are some ppl upset by the mere mention of R\Hr even in passing as part of a different discussion?

Its not the mention, but it seems to boil down to "Ron deserves Hermione b/c he has it worse than Harry" which I find

a) ludicruous (any sne person would rather have Ron's problems than Harry's - the most powerful evil person in the world wants you dead and will stop at nothing to do it, no family. . . .); and

b) demeaning to both Ron (b/c his happiness depends on his "getting" Hermione) and Hermione (b/c she is made a prize).

I don't think Ron "wallows in self pity" any more than Harry tends to let his immaturity get in the way at times.

I think (and I am guessing you would agree) that Harry's problems are far worse than Ron's.

I think they both have noble attributes as well as the outlook of teenage boys. I don't think there is much sympathy shown for Ron by the characters in the book and I don't think he expects it. I don't see Ron complaining more than Harry in OoTP.

First of all, ron does not have it that bad. He has a loving family, he made the team and he has become a prefect. Its what he wanted when he looked into the Mirror of Erised.

And in OotP, I agree that Hary was complaining more (but don't forget, we also do so Hary all the time, not so for Ron).

This thread about is about whether the readers have any sympathy for Ron. I think some of the posters have applied their lack of sympathy for Ron into a dislike for the character, as though Ron was the one who asked for sympathy.

I like Ron's character. I also think that he has to realize just how good he has it.

I think some people take their love of Ron's character and make out his "problems" to be much more than what they are.

[sone]

To Sone,

I was responding to post #35 where you argue that Ron was much meaner to Hermy than James was to Lilly; and I inferred you were trying to say that Ron's behavior was unforgivable. I said that James Potter was more offensive at fifteen in general than Ron ever was to Hermione but not by much.

[randomfan86]

Yea he doesn't hesitate to try to *save* Sirius thinking that Voldemort might kill him. He never thought about the fact that even if his dream was true going alone and challenging Voldemort would get himself killed. Err that's not maturity that is stupidity. Also he didn't seem to realise that his friends were supporting him in book five and he kept suspecting them of thinking he is crazy. I didn't like harry In Book five although he deserved sympathy in the first books.

If you read my quote more carefully....I said "considering the circumstances"....and considering the circumstances that I listed....you would expect him to be bitter, self-pitying, etc. in book 5...and that's how he is, neverthless, he does deserve sympathy regardless of his actions in book 5 because his actions are EXPECTED.....it would've been a pretty dull book if he was all happy and normal in book 5...God knows most everyone else would have reacted much worse in his circumstances..

With regard to challenging Voldemort to save Sirius, it has nothing to do with maturity....many adults out of pure emotion would do the same thing.....it would've taken great self-restraint and prudence to hold back and think clearly especially considering his circumstances...and hopefully he'll gain some wisdom from that experience.

Besides, it was this "stupidity," as you call it, that led him to go in and face a Basilisk alone and save Ginny, to go and face what he thought would be a dark wizard in Snape alone and save the Sorceror's stone from Voldemort, and his "stupidity" that led him to confront Sirius Black (who at that time he thought was Voldemort's leutinent) in book 3 while trying to save his best friend's life.

In all these circumstances going into it, the odds were very much against him and could've easily wound up in him dying....he does have a certain carelessness for his own life....it's just his nature.

[RChou]

In Defense of a Sidekick


As the next installment of the Harry Potter series looms and amidst the speculation of where the plot will twist and turn, we find that so many people overlook one of the most important characters in the septology, Ron Weasley. Admittedly, there are so many shippers, arm chair quarterbacks who can quote chapter and verse, talking about what JKR has in store for us that we find something lacking…who really looks at this person?

Lately, it’s all about who hooks up with who, how dies, and how does Harry fare in the end. Speculation can be a healthy thing, I am guilty of it too. More than once I read the books and hoped beyond hope that Ron, who more than once is slammed by God knows who, gets the girl. He’s earned it, more than once.

I do feel, as many do, that he is emotionally immature and kind of boorish, but I can also tell you that Han Solo was just as bad or worse and look who he ended up with, the object of his rantings, ravings and scandalously biting repartee. I Don’t see Princess Leia feeling the strain. She hated him, fought with him and railed against his liking her right off. (Incidentally it took three movies to fix that. And they were adults!)

If you will, for a moment, take a look at the youngest Weasley brother, you can tell a lot. Being from a big family, he has a lot to deal with, four older brothers, a humble financial situation, low self esteem, and yes, the role of the sidekick.

To explain what I mean, lets start off at the beginning in The Sorcerer’s Stone. There, we meet a 11 year old Ronald on his first train ride to Hogwarts. Having been exposed to the Weasley family legacy, he already had a lot to live up to (namely his older brothers. Bill, a Gringot’s Curse Breaker, Charlie, a dragon trainer, and the twins, Fred and George both outgoing rule breaking Quidditch players and Percy, prefect and headboy) All of these different men of the Weasley family in their way, are quite a lot to follow. Look at what they represent, Bill (his coolness and approachability) then Charlie, his achievements in his choice of employment as a wizard (his parents going to visit him one Christmas) Percy (ambitious and hard working) and the twins (standout Quidditch players that have a knack for getting attention).

The Weasley men are not pushovers by any means and it takes a strong person to withstand the ridicule of the other more financially set purebloods. (Name any Slytherin, and their Head of House to be precise) Ron, when he appears for the first time at Hogwarts, has not only the stigma of being another Weasley, but that of being the smallest (Percy a notable second). Almost at once he has to fend off verbal attacks from other students.

Draco starts right off making him feel lower than he should. I guess you can chalk that up to the environment he was brought up in (Don’t get me started!). We see immediately, his lack of self esteem and his need for acceptance. But any of us, at that age, were in need of that. But as we reach the end of the first book, Ron steps out of the shadow and exhibits true courage (he wouldn’t have made it in Gryffindor if he didn’t have it in him). When, at the end of Sorcerer’s Stone, he makes the sacrifice so that Harry can go on to get the stone, we see his true colors come out. He shows, courage, strength and smarts.

Those qualities are not in short supply when we meet him again in Chamber of Secrets. He speaks his mind and has no problem telling it like it is, even when he jokes. Hermione knows this best. He has a big mouth and has no trouble using it. He even shows courage under fire when Malfoy goes continuously after Hermione, much to his gastric discontent. That never stops. His mission is to be Harry’s best friend. His other mission is to protect those who are getting the raw end, Hermione in particular. (Those shippers rejoice)

Then in the Prisoner of Azkaban we see a different side of Ron, his boorish immature “boy” side. As a woman, I can tell you at that age boys are nothing like we want them to be. Ron, who though he isn’t too quick on the girl thing, shouldn’t be penalized for it, though many shippers tend to slam him.

Hey all, I just want to let everyone know that no matter what happens in the HPverse we all are in agreement, teen love is never a perfect thing. What we need to consider is that JKR is writing with a simple plan in mind, giving us clues, and yes, tiny sparkles of hope to our own personal shipping dreams.

Personally, having read all v15 I have come to the conclusion that while Ron is clueless, he is far from stupid. In past books, starting at POA, we notice a partiality, even as JKR insists is not known to him. What we fail to see is that as teenagers we are the least likely to recognize something that profound until its too late to avert our eyes.

Case in point: Ron defends Hermione, so does Harry. But who is most affected, who gets the most repercussions? Ron does decidedly. Malfoy who I believe has a morbid obsession with her (are there other muggle born girls at Hogwarts, what's his deal? Always her but I digress.) Yet, to his credit Ron continues to defend her. In GOF he's being a typical teenager. He's lived with 4 older brothers and knows perfectly well about girlfriends, and that they are just (according to Fred and George) reasons to get on him. Plus at that tender age he has a lot to deal with. First of all he's the SIDEKICK, and also a Weasley.

Draco pounds him, Crab and Goyle echo anything Draco says, and then there's Snape who doesn't help. Try and cultivate feelings under the microscope of two rowdy brothers, and see how you do. When he does come into contact with feelings that may be welling up for her or any one else he's conflicted.

I do honestly believe that Hermione has definite and tangible feelings for him but she doesn't want to oust Harry. He's alone enough and it seems no matter who gets close to him has the potential to get hurt. What I also believe is that in the G12 house when Harry comes in, they are innocently being around one another.

In the next book there is going to definite awkward, oogles in the pit of the stomach instances, like perhaps as prefects (Harry in the invisibility cloak) they are walking around and have to hide because they are going to over hear something plot thicky, and then the inevitable "first kiss" could happen while they are hiding.

Then I believe if that is how they will take up a notch they will spend a lot of time avoiding the subject while all those 16 year old hormones are raging on. And if you remember they are always on. I think that besides something either happening or almost happening, Harry will notice. He is not stupid either. He's also not going to be as preoccupied with it. R/Hr will be I assure you. Once Ron realizes she's more than just one of the guys, as will Draco I fear, he will not deal with it well. Think if you will of Han Solo and Princess Leia, how long did it take before their angry sparks turned into tender moments we all rewound the tape for. (Who’s scruffy looking????)

I personally think that with Lucious Malfoy looming as a just back from the brink wanna be MOM things could get very sticky at Hogwarts, giving us many different occasions to see the fur fly. Now, onto a point that I need to make about Ron. Immature he is, but that was exactly how James was if you all will remember. It took Lily until 7th year to take notice he had changed. Ron’s under the gun. That doesn’t mean that he isn’t as strong, if not stronger than the rest. And now I would like to get to the two kisses that are so debated lately. Even though I do hold out for the hope that the perfume and the looks and the awkward almosts, I believe that her kisses were SELFLESS. They were to help her best friends know that someone cares, although I do believe that it started in motion feelings Ron is going to be dealing with. She is the catalyst for so much. She’s the voice of reason, she’s the glue that keeps the trio together and also the nitro that could pull them apart. But true friends never burst at the seems as we have seen in the last 5 books.

After looking at the excerpts from Mugglenet on why Hr-R could happen I firmly believe he a jealous teenager. Victor Krum for example. Possessive, yes, I think so. And with the next book someone will notice (my bet is on Draco)

He spends time with her, she knows him and he also knows her. Of you guys out there didn’t you have a girl that you know that would have given kittens to have you notice her? And when you noticed her how long did it take? The first move is always the hardest as I think will be for Ron.

As girls go, she’s smart, which Ron finds “brilliant, scary but brilliant.” She’s loyal which they both admire, as well as staff. She’s level headed, most of the time (to her credit and praise from Prof McGonagall.) But she’s also a teenager as well with feelings and conflicts inside. I remember being at that age and not understanding the feelings I had. I do know that she once her choice is made will never falter.

I saw that immediately in the first book. Her immediate alarm for Ron. His sticking up for her again and again through the series, more ardently each book,.

In the Great hall in COS her awkward hug.

In POA when she looks at him and reacts awkwardly. In GOF when she kisses his cheek and fights with him. (aka Han solo princess Leia.)

Come on, the tension is there. The stage is set. Clues, both in print and also by word of mouth from herself JKR.

I know that all of you have your opinions, and hopes for who will be with who but I believe, that in the end it will be Ron who finally captures the heart of the fair Hermione. Luke didn’t get a lady in the end. His mission was bigger than that.

Countdown to Azkaban is two days and I can’t wait. The tension is so thick you can slice it RUPERT you were made for Ron’s character and WEASLEY is our KING.

And Hermione will be your Queen.


Wow. That was well said. Took the words from right under my mouth.

I strongly feel that Ron's best and worst character trait is his ability to be the great equalizer; he doesn't stand for injustice of any kind. Perhaps thats why he is so good at chess, where both teams are equal and it truly is a battle of wills.

In CoS, he was motivated by Hermione's petrification to solve the mystery at any cost. In PoA he took up the burden of defending Buckbeak when others (Hermione and Harry) could not. In GoF he was hurt deeply by Harry's "unjust" Triwizard entry. In OotP he's the one who stops Hermione from being a Malcolm X liberator of the house elves, and instead gives them a fair chance to see what theyre getting themselves into. Also in OotP Ron urged Harry to tell someone about the unfair (and probably illegal) punishments Harry was recieving at the hands of the Umb!@#.

But again, this also is one of his greatest flaws. He constantly feels the stigma of being friends of the great Harry Potter, and having to live up to the great legacy of the Weasley family. Although he composes himself well most of the time, sometimes it irks him about how unfair it is that Harry gets all the attention, and how unfair it is having to get everything second handed. That's why he revels in the little shots of glory he gains.

With Fred and George gone, Ron will most definitely develop in character and maturity. Fred and George continously chastize Ron about a number of things, including his abysmal Quidditch performance and his selection as a Prefect. Without a doubt the main reasons for Ron's failure as a Prefect was due to the Weasley twins. His failure on the Quidditch pitch is mostly due to not wanting to let anyone down, but certainly the Weasley twins also contributed to this as well. Hell, Ron was able to save goals in the final game of the season when he failed to do it all year, with George and Fred gone.

In conclusion, Ron is going to be the baddest mother trucker in all of Europe when all's said and done.

While I do not believe that Ron has it worse than Harry, I do feel a bit bad for him in certain situations. But then again, I have felt bad for nearly every character at some point or another throughout the series. The main parts where I felt sympathy for Ron were:
-where he was overshadowed by Harry's fame (through it was no fault of Harry's)
-because he comes from a family that isn't very well off and is teased about it by Malfoy/Slytherins
-because he is overshadowed at times by his older siblings and feels the need to prove himself


Don't you see? Its time like things I think J.K. Rowling is a master of the craft of character development.

Right now, most of the people on this forum are comparing Ron's harships to Harry's hardships. This in itself IS one of Ron's hardship; even his failings are overshadowed by Harry's. In reality, theres no point in comparing the two and seeing which one has it harder; if Harry were in Ron's shoes, well, he'd be Ron, and if Ron were in Harry's shoes, well, he'd be Harry! Both of them are the only one's with full consummate of their own hardships; to look from an outsider's view and deride them achieves nothing.

Haven't any of you had one of your hardships compared to another's by a friend, and then get angry at said friend?

[phoenix49]

Besides, it was this "stupidity," as you call it, that led him to go in and face a Basilisk alone and save Ginny, to go and face what he thought would be a dark wizard in Snape alone and save the Sorceror's stone from Voldemort, and his "stupidity" that led him to confront Sirius Black (who at that time he thought was Voldemort's leutinent) in book 3 while trying to save his best friend's life.

And he's pretty lucky to not be dead atm. It's fiction and not necessarly realist at all.

[dobydoo]

Al of Ron's "problems" is that he compares himself to others. These are on his own doing. One, he might be poor, but he is not that poor. Their family seems to always have food and to be able to go to afford Hogwarts.

As for comparisons with his brothers, it wouldn't be a bother if didn't allow it to be one (I'm from a large family, I know how it works). And about the twins picking on him, that is what his entire family does. I se Ron picking on Percy and Ginny every so often. Ron looks like one of those guys who can dish it out, but can't take it.

Yes, every decent character in this series deserves sypathy for something, but the initial post said he did b/c they compared Ron to Harry. But they didn't use what bad things Harry has going for him (no parents, the only family he has known -Sirius- was killed in front of his own eyes, the most evil wizard wants him dead, he has to become a killer to save the world. . . ).

And not only Hary, what about comparing Ron to Neville. That's not even close. So if the question and the subject was truly "does Ron deserve sympathy," then yes, I would agree. But the way it was framed, I would give my answer as no.

[faded264]

Although he composes himself well most of the time, sometimes it irks him about how unfair it is that Harry gets all the attention, and how unfair it is having to get everything second handed. That's why he revels in the little shots of glory he gains.


Right now, most of the people on this forum are comparing Ron's harships to Harry's hardships. This in itself IS one of Ron's hardship; even his failings are overshadowed by Harry's. In reality, theres no point in comparing the two and seeing which one has it harder; if Harry were in Ron's shoes, well, he'd be Ron, and if Ron were in Harry's shoes, well, he'd be Harry! Both of them are the only one's with full consummate of their own hardships; to look from an outsider's view and deride them achieves nothing.

It's ok to revel in a moment of glory, but one of Ron's faults is that he can't seem to realise that he actually has it pretty good. As you said, he gets mad that he has second- hand items while there are people who are in far worse situations than him. Like Neville, who's parents don't even recognize him. I'm sure Neville would rather have second-hand possessions and have parents who recognize him than be in the situation he is in now.

As far as people comparing Ron's hardships to Harry's, what else do you expect? While reading the books we feel flashes of sympathy for Ron, but after you are done reading you start to look back over the books and analyze them. You're going to compare the characters situations and decide who has it worse, it's enevitable.

[RChou]

As far as people comparing Ron's hardships to Harry's, what else do you expect? While reading the books we feel flashes of sympathy for Ron, but after you are done reading you start to look back over the books and analyze them. You're going to compare the characters situations and decide who has it worse, it's enevitable.

What do I expect? Well, that is what I expect, people to compare Harry's troubles with Ron's. And I suspect thats what J.K. Rowling expects, as well. I was just commenting on how brilliant it was to even have Ron's hardships compared to Harry's by the readers of the actual book. Its like a sort of super-meta character development.

[missem]

Of course I feel sorry for Ron.

He had to spend the whole summer trapped in a house with Hermione. I feel immense pity for anyone who has to live with her.

[sone]

Of course I feel sorry for Ron.

He had to spend the whole summer trapped in a house with Hermione. I feel immense pity for anyone who has to live with her. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Toltec_7]

In CoS, he was motivated by Hermione's petrification to solve the mystery at any cost. In PoA he took up the burden of defending Buckbeak when others (Hermione and Harry) could not. In GoF he was hurt deeply by Harry's "unjust" Triwizard entry. In OotP he's the one who stops Hermione from being a Malcolm X liberator of the house elves, and instead gives them a fair chance to see what theyre getting themselves into. Also in OotP Ron urged Harry to tell someone about the unfair (and probably illegal) punishments Harry was recieving at the hands of the Umb!@#. Wow where can I get my hands on those books, Ron sounds like the hero, they must be called Ron Weasley and the......

Seriously Ron deserves some of the credit for a few of those things but come on:
"In CoS, he was motivated by Hermione's petrification to solve the mystery at any cost"and Harry wasn't? she is both of their friends right?
In GoF he was hurt deeply by Harry's "unjust" Triwizard entry. I don't see what you are getting at here, was this a good thing? He behaved like an immature kid (which he is), this is a negative for Ron not a positive. Jealousy is NOT a good thing.
In OotP he's the one who stops Hermione from being a Malcolm X liberator of the house elves, and instead gives them a fair chance to see what theyre getting themselves intoI dont understand this one either, do you believe slavery is a good thing? do you believe that nothing should be done about it?, ok so maybe Hermione is not going about it the right way, but at least she is trying to do something about, Ron on the other hand likes it the way it is. Hermione will learn from her mistakes, but if she didn't do anything to begin with, there would be nothing to learn from.

I'm all for giving Ron credit when credit is due, but lets not make him out to be something he is not, i.e the hero of the story.

[FoxyDoxy]

I don't feel sorry for Ron.
Ron does live in Harrys shadow but I think Harry envies him and would swap in an instant. I'm sure he'd rather have a family around him and not have to live in fear of the most evil wizard alive. Ron sometimes dosen't see how lucky he is so we see him as the downtrodden poor ron.
When something bad happens to Ron I'll feel sympathy for him (because despite what it may seem I like his character) but as yet he is just one of those people who has everything a person could want but is still asking for more.

[stormcat_5000]

Wow where can I get my hands on those books, Ron sounds like the hero, they must be called Ron Weasley and the......

Seriously Ron deserves some of the credit for a few of those things but come on

I'm all for giving Ron credit when credit is due, but lets not make him out to be something he is not, i.e the hero of the story.

Ok! Ron did not sound Like a hero, he sounded to be more of a very good friend and person to me.

Ron does Deserve Credit but When did you see him get any by us the Readers? we always look at Harry dont we? Ron just seems to dissapear.
Agreed he is not the Hero and hence does not Really need our admiration but then the same should be true for Hermione, but it is not!

It is as Tough for Ron to Confront his Demons as it is For Harry.But since Harry is the Hero he is Special. Ron on the other hand has nothing special about him at all.So he is brave and Loyal, but Bravery and loyalty are not what wins Wars(They really dont!).Its by cleverness one wins Wars.and Lets Face it Ron is anything but clever.

He does not need Sympathy! He needs to grow for the sake of his lived ones!

[phoenix49]

Bravery and loyalty are not what wins Wars(They really dont!)
*Cough* German vs Russia *cough* Loyalty? Germany betrayed Russia and that 's the main reason why they lost. Bravery ? Surely the things you most need in wars...

[stormcat_5000]

*Cough* German vs Russia *cough* Loyalty? Germany betrayed Russia and that 's the main reason why they lost. Bravery ? Surely the things you most need in wars...

You have False beliefs About wars !. True Germany betryed Russia you think the Russians did not know they will be betrayed!. Hello! Russia was Communist country ,Germany was Anti communist it was one of their agendas that Communist countries will be destroyed. Russia Made friends With Germany to Buy themselves Some time to prepare themselves for the war on side of the allies. trust me they were well prepared!.All countries exagerate their fight for Freedom. Take my country India for example You have no clue How Much they have Exagerated Gandhi :shakes head: specialy when the movie came out!

War is another situation when the "theory of survival of the fittest" comes into focus.

Bravery and Loyalty are things that get You killed instantly. You need to be smart, clever and able to defend themselves in order to survive in a battle field. Ron is smart but not clever and we are not sure if he would be able to defend himself.

[phoenix49]

You have False beliefs About wars honey.True Germany betryed Russia you think the Russians did not know they will be betrayed!.Hello! Russia was Communist country ,Germany was Anti communist it was one of their agendas that Communist countries will be destroyed. Russia Made friends With Germany to Buy themselves Some time to prepare themselves for the war on side of the allies. trust me they were well prepared!.All countries exagerate their fight for Freedom. Take my country India for example You have no clue How Much they have Exagerated Gandhi :shakes head: specialy when the movie came out!

Communist vs anti communist always been a pretext . Germany betrayed Russia to take his oil mainly. And when Staline learned Germany were attacking them he didn't want to believe it. So I doubt he was excepting Hitler to attack, in 42 at least. Anyway saying Loyalty and Bravery is not important shows you don't know much about war. I don't see how you can win a war if soldiers betray their nation or if they become deserter.

[MoodyMania]

Communist vs anti communist always been a pretext . Germany betrayed Russia to take his oil mainly. And when Staline learned Germany were attacking them he didn't want to believe it. So I doubt he was excepting Hitler to attack, in 42 at least. Anyway saying Loyalty and Bravery is not important shows you don't know much about war. I don't see how you can win a war if soldiers betray their nation or if they become deserter.
And this shows why we should or should not have sympathy for Ron how? :eyebrows:

[phoenix49]

It only shows that Ron loyalty and bravery is important :tu: But we are kinda off topic sorry :rotfl:

Bravery and Loyalty are things that get You killed instantly. You need to be smart, clever and able to defend themselves in order to survive in a battle field. Ron is smart but not clever and we are not sure if he would be able to defend himself.

But lol intelligence won't save you if you are in front of 5 vietnamese pointing their AK 47 on your head. Surviving to war mostly depends on chance I fear. And Ron shows how clever he was when he won the chess game in SS anyway. Chess game is a bit like a battlefield you know. And this chess game also shows you need courageous people that are ready to give their life in order to "win the game".

[anheru17]

Short answer "NO I don't feel any sympathy at all for Ron"

Long answer I am a very cynic male and I believe that pity for someone as pathetic as Ron is uncalled.

Now, before the Ron fans start giving me the axe I will explain.
Yeah Ron has some problems, and even if Harry and Neville have worse problems that is not my main argument for judging Ron.
My arguments are

1) Yes Ron is poor, but even if he has Roof and Food he is still poor. What does he do about it? He sat and sulks about it endlessly. What does the twin do about it? They started joke shop in school even when no one, except Harry, take them seriously; even more, their own mother kept destroying their jokes. Even then, they kept going and now they have a sucesfull bussines. They started they shop at 15; what has done Ron at 15? Nothing.

2) He wants to be a Quidditch star, like Harry; but he is TERRIBLE at it, and he tried to quit many times in Fifth year. So why? Why? He didnt try to improve his skills? I mean, He could have trained in his free time; skiping Hogsmeade so he could train, waking up at dawn on weekends or something; instead of that he kept sulking about Quidditch and being terrible at it.

3)He wants to be Head Boy. Well considering what a lousy Prefect he was I don't think It would come to happen. I mean, he failed at all his duties during fifth year. And is not me the one who said this. One the World Book Day interview JKR said that Ron hasn't been a very good Prefect when asked about the "Prefect Points" thing

4) If he likes Hermione, "ASK HER OUT"

So, No I dont feel sympathy for those who have problems and instead of trying to fix them, decide to sat and sulk about it. If it is beyond them, I feel sympathy, like Neville and his parents. If they are like Ron, well I become angry.

Now, I am going and hide because someone is going to give me the axe. I know

[RChou]

Theres a difference between pity and sympathy.


I believe everyone in some point their lives have deserved sympathy. I don't think anybody deserves pity.

Wow where can I get my hands on those books, Ron sounds like the hero, they must be called Ron Weasley and the......

Seriously Ron deserves some of the credit for a few of those things but come on:
and Harry wasn't? she is both of their friends right?
I don't see what you are getting at here, was this a good thing? He behaved like an immature kid (which he is), this is a negative for Ron not a positive. Jealousy is NOT a good thing.
I dont understand this one either, do you believe slavery is a good thing? do you believe that nothing should be done about it?, ok so maybe Hermione is not going about it the right way, but at least she is trying to do something about, Ron on the other hand likes it the way it is. Hermione will learn from her mistakes, but if she didn't do anything to begin with, there would be nothing to learn from.

I'm all for giving Ron credit when credit is due, but lets not make him out to be something he is not, i.e the hero of the story.


And this thread is called is Sympathy for Ron.

In CoS J.K. Rowling specifically describes Ron's push for solving the mystery after Hermione got petrified. It wasn't diminishing Harry's role one bit, thats just how the author told it.

The Triwizard comment was meant to point out how his greatest strength can also be his greatest weakness. Maybe you should read more carefully next time.

Ron, unlike Hermione, gives the House-Elves the choice themself about whether to be liberated or not. His comments were something like "They should know what they're getting into at the very least." Maybe the house elves deserve to be free, maybe not. From what I gather its an extremely nebulous issue that doesn't have one specific ansewr. Either way, Ron lets the house-elves have a choice in the matter, instead of being freed against their will.


Isn't slavery bad because it takes away the slave's rights and free will? So, aren't Hermione's actions equally as bad by trying to free the house-elves against their will?

[Padfoot_001]

OKay, who ever said anything about Hermione and Harry getting together. I know the movies are great and all, but you've got to remember, the books are on their own, as are the movies. The Hermione, Ron and Harry in the movies are not the Hermione, Ron and Harry in the books. Nevertheless, I think it is Ron and Hermione and why shouldn't it be ... I mean, its the obvious choice. Anyways, Harry and Hermione, I dunno, I can't see it, sorry. :td:

[stormcat_5000]

Anyway saying Loyalty and Bravery is not important shows you don't know much about war. I don't see how you can win a war if soldiers betray their nation or if they become deserter.

I am not saying that Loyalty and Bravery are not needed I am saying that you dont win Wars on basis of just loyalty and bravery!!.You need to have brains to survive A war!. loyalty and bravery without a sound mind gives Rise to recklessness.And Ron is Reckless!
I would have given the name of the book I read in school I dont remember the name.. it was something about a solder carrying chocolates instead of Rifles.Taking shelter in enemy house.... I will give you the name as soon as I remember it. It changed My mind About wara

Have you ever been In a war like situation? It is crazy! and let me tell you some soldiers do defect in war, only their defection is never known,but thats besides the point.

A perfect example is Harry being loyal and brave,went to save Sirius But because of his Recklessness, He endangered the Life of his friends and it is Really because of him Sirius Died (even though we may blame Dumbledore)

[phoenix49]

There are situation you can't avoid no matter how clever you are. And then you can just hope to be lucky. And by the way, to be able to think in a dangerous situation, you need bravery. Intelligence won't help if fear prevent you from thinking normaly. You need bravery first, then intelligence is a plus :tu:

A perfect example is Harry being loyal and brave,went to save Sirius But because of his Recklessness, He endangered the Life of his friends and it is Really because of him Sirius Died (even though we may blame Dumbledore)
He was too afraid to lose Sirius to think properly :cool: He has not been brave enough to face this situation. He should have calm down and analyze the situation.

[Mumps]

There are situation you can't avoid no matter how clever you are. And then you can just hope to be lucky. And by the way, to be able to think in a dangerous situation, you need bravery. Intelligence won't help if fear prevent you from thinking normaly. You need bravery first, then intelligence is a plus
Well said. In PS/SS Hermione can't think what to do. Harry suggests the fire, and Ron has to remind her that she's a witch when she looks for wood.
Hermione panics in this situation and can't think straight, so all that intelligence counts for nothing.

[Heatherhobbit]

Well said. In PS/SS Hermione can't think what to do. Harry suggests the fire, and Ron has to remind her that she's a witch when she looks for wood.
Hermione panics in this situation and can't think straight, so all that intelligence counts for nothing.


Wizard of Oz parallel...

Harry-Heart
Ron-Courage
Hermione-Brains

[faded264]

Wizard of Oz parallel...

Harry-Heart
Ron-Courage
Hermione-Brains
I wouldn't exactly say that Ron has courage. I would think that he would more likely have the heart. Anyway, we're kinda off topic.

[Adual]

my answer is the same as redcape's..hermiones waiting on ron to mature


Uff I hope it will be in the next book...

[flipfloputz]

I think Hermione is waiting for Ron to mature, also.

I don't think Harry and Hermione could really happen. The movies are one thing, but the books are an entirely different ballpark. Ron glanced at Harry while he was telling Ginny to pick someone better next time. Maybe that ment something. And in the movies and the books, the most tension is between Hermione and Ron. The arguing is probably important.

I do give Ron sympathy when sympathy is required. When he belched out slugs, yeah I did. But, when he was jealous of Harry, no I didn't. JKR wanted us to feel a certain way when we read that part of GoF, and that way was not to be sympathetic towards Ron. It was to be angry at Ron for going along with the crowd, and not believing his friend.