The Triwizard Cup Portkey in GoF

[TheShadow]

Well I just think it's a bit weird how Voldermort made the portkey in the trophy. They could have put it in anything and then put it in Harry's bed, then when Harry went in and saw the object he'd take it out, making him touch it and get transported to the place. What you guys think?

[Manyasha]

Yeah, but how could they put that portkey in Harry's bed without knowing the password to enter the common room?

[TheShadow]

Well Sirius got in didn't he and we're talking about Voldermort here.

[Sarah]

Well, perhaps Voldemort wanted to play it out. He said the Triwizard Tournament was the perfect opportunity. In order to get Harry into the tournament he had to add his name to the GoF. Since there were only supposed to be 3 wizards did you notice how everyone shunned Harry...so to speak. I think Voldemort wanted to toy with him and make him look bad. Harry was to young to be in th tournament and if he won the trophy it would be even worse.


Okay, that really makes no sense at all...especially when you consider that Voldemort was going to kill him anyways so having him win the trophy shouldn't matter. :sigh:

[Divi]

I agree, it could have been anything and saved a lot of effort. It could have been a pen, or Harry's pillow, or fake Moody could have asked Harry to come to his office, thrown him a baseball and said "Hey, catch!" But the whole plot of the book wouldn't have turned out the same way, so who am I to complain.

[TheShadow]

The books wouldn't have been exciting really.. but I still think there is a better reason why is what in the cup. :blank:

Originally posted by Sarah
Okay, that really makes no sense at all...especially when you consider that Voldemort was going to kill him anyways so having him win the trophy shouldn't matter. :sigh:

It made perfect sence. :yup:

[Divi]

Well, the whole stunt could have been done for show, to prove that Voldemort's back. But since the ministry tried to cover it up after it happened, it didn't have the same effect.

[TheShadow]

True.. I felt sorry for Cedric.

[Peter]

J.K. Rowling wrote the book that way.
And I think its good just as it is.

[TheShadow]

Yeah I know it is, I was just suggesting.. :(

[Ferrik]

Voldemort's a meglomaniac who obviously hasn't read the "Guidelines for Evil Overlords".;D Not only was he toying with Harry, he was also toying with Dumbledore. He wanted to make DD look incompetent. By using his convoluted plan, he could reveal later on that he had been behind it all, and people with perfect hindight would have said, "Of course. Why didn't Dumbledore realize this? The old man must be losing it." He gets rid of a threat and discredits an old enemy all at the same time.

[TheShadow]

wow! you certainly have put some thought into that! :tu::tu::tu::tu:

[Da da da da da86]

He wanted to hide the fact that he was going to kill him. IIRC, the poeople could not see inside the hedge maze (I found the bleachers to be really stupid). The students had to send up sparks to let the teachers know they were in trouble. Since no one could see that Harry was whisked away to another place, killed, and whisked back, they'd assume he died from one of the monsters or something. In any other situation, they'd suspect foul play.

[Sarah]

Oh dang, that was good! I didn't think of Voldemort sending the body back. I figured he would kill Harry and then leave the body. If he sent Harry back it would really look bad on Hogwarts...
Especially when in the end Cedric died as well. Nice theory there...I like it.

[TheShadow]

Excellentey!

[Da da da da da86]

They didn't count on Harry escaping and blabbing, especially when Voldemort was there, surrounded by nearly all his death eaters.

Also, because I have a feeling that it might come up later in the thread, I think this it is possible for Voldemort to use the trophy as a portkey in that fashion. I believe that portkeys are simply a method to transport underage wizards. Whether it's the sort that transports any number at a certain time (like buses on a shedule) or ones that simply transport people at any time (like our cars), portkeys just move people.

[Kneazle]

I saw a pretty funny quote a while ago, which is related to this on some level Something like "Voldemort could have easily poisoned Harry's toothbrush and killed him, but Voldie needs drama."

I agree with the above points, but I think it was partly for the show of it. He could have used anyone, remember. It was a huge save-face performance. I don't think he would have kept quiet about the return. Has his plan worked, he could have transported Harry's body back and blasted the Dark Mark above him. . . wouldn't it have been a 'wonderful' way to end the Tournament?

[Ron.Weasleys.Girl]

I liked what JKR did with the story I mean..if Harry got sucked into the grave yard any earlier then when she did. I would think the TWT would be cancelled and it would cause soo much stress waaayy to soon. I dunno....I dont wanna think about how things would be different. I really like where the story is goin.

[Dobby and Winky]

I agree with Kneazle that it was for show, in front of all those spectators, but I think it was also to gain time. The third task wasn't until the end of July, and that gave Voldemort plenty of time to gain power he needed to beat Harry. I also think Voldemort was being a bit sarcastic. Harry had just beat his three competetors but now Voldemort was going to beat him once and for all.

[Da da da da da86]

I don't think it would have been for show... Voldemort's not stupid. I think he was biding his time so that he could gain power and strike without warning. I imagined he would have slowly convinced the demontors and giants. I would have slowly weaned the Death Eaters back and kill the reluctant ones... quietly, then I'd attack full force and plungethe community back into fear... :devil:

[Alex]

I think it is simply because the story would not have been as exciting otherwise. You know, it is a book after all... it is not real. *Ducks fruit being thrown from all directions.*

[Cat]

Mad-Eye Crouch could have turned a schoolbook into a Portkey... and then what? Harry would have touched the schoolbook at any old time and been transported to the graveyard in Little Hangleton. Then he'd wander away again, feeling very confused.

It's not like Voldemort set up a sleeping bag in the cemetary. He had to actually arrange a time to meet with Harry. The Cup is something they knew he would only touch at one time. And the Cup is also something they knew Harry would definately get his hands on.

[Dobby and Winky]

Throws fruit at Alex.

No, actually, that's the best explanation so far. I mean, what kind of book would it be if Harry got to Hogwarts the first night and went to bed and touched his pillow and BAM! off to the graveyard. Very short book. Besides, aren't evil dark wizards entitled to a little fun? (Better ask Matt!)

[LewsTherin]

I agree with what's been said, especially Kneazle's view.

Voldemort is a showman, a prefectionist, and proud on top of it. He could have set up a way to whisk Harry away from Hogwarts at any time during the year, but he wanted a challenge. He wanted to show his brilliance, show Dumbledore how superior he is, and thus, he devised the most intricate plan possible. What better slap in the face for the man who everybody adores, than to steal the hero away from right under his nose? And this Voldy did, with all the guards on the maze, he stunned everybody by getting both students out while everybody was watching (think about it - people were watching the task and probably saw the boys dissapear. Why else did everybody come running if they didn't know?). But of course, the hero beat him.

But my point is. Voldemort is the consumate proffesional; devious, smart, and daring, and he will never take a simple plan over one where he can stun and demoralize his foes. That's why he only turned the trophey into a portkey, and waited so long. To show his brilliance.

Think about it - that action will have Hogwart's looking over their shoulder, wondering what will happen next. It also undermined DD's power to protect the students, and that will fester in people's minds (if DD can't protect my child, who can?). So, it was a act of war as much physically as psychologicaly. And if he gains a psychological advantage - he wins.

[Thayet]

They couldn't have gotten the password. The only reason Sirius got in with the password was because crookshanks got the list of passwords Neville wrote down from his room. I think it was done like that for a reason. It was the right time and place, and made the book more dramatic. It helped him have more protection: the love in harrys veins that protect him from his mothers sacrifice now protect voldemort too. So Voldemort has 2 protections, and it was suppose to prove to the death eaters voldemorts power, and to annoy dumbledore by taking harry right out of his grasp.
Thats what I think, anyway.

[cristalfairy]

Yes I agree with everyone who said, that Voldemort likes the drama and the show, also with the fact that most of it probably was, perfectly planed by Voldemort to annoy DD.

[Fleur]

Originally posted by LewsTherin
But my point is. Voldemort is the consumate proffesional; devious, smart, and daring, and he will never take a simple plan over one where he can stun and demoralize his foes. That's why he only turned the trophey into a portkey, and waited so long. To show his brilliance. Think about it - that action will have Hogwart's looking over their shoulder, wondering what will happen next. It also undermined DD's power to protect the students, and that will fester in people's minds (if DD can't protect my child, who can?). So, it was a act of war as much physically as psychologicaly. And if he gains a psychological advantage - he wins.

Couldn't have said it better. In this way, they would not have to worry about anyone touching the cup. (Cedric wasn't supposed to.) By June, Voldemort was much stronger, strong enough to survive the potion.
Also, can Portkeys be used indoors? It would seem like you would hit your head.

[Alorra Spinnet]

Originally posted by Fleur


Also, can Portkeys be used indoors? It would seem like you would hit your head. [/COLOR]

I've been thinking that too. So far, we have only seen them used outdoors.

[Elangomatt]

Originally posted by Alex
I think it is simply because the story would not have been as exciting otherwise. You know, it is a book after all... it is not real. *Ducks fruit being thrown from all directions.*

Something along these same lines (but off topic).....

Dumbledore could have almost left the Mirror of Erised out in the middle of the great hall and the Philosopher's Stone would have been in very little danger. All he would have had to do was to tell everyone in the school what the stone can be used for and the stone never would have been in any danger since everyone would want to use the stone. Keeping closer to the real story, if the trio had just minded their own business and not gone down the forbidden corridor, the stone never would have been in danger either. Quirrel would never have been able to get the stone out himself because of dumbledore's charm on the mirror. Dumbledore would have gotten back from the Ministry, gone down to the mirror room and blasted quirrel (and maybe Voldemort as well) to smitherenes. Harry would have won the Quiddich match, and Gryffindor would have won the quiddich cup. Only thing is Gryffindor probably would not have gotten the House cup without the 170 point bonus that Dumbledore gave Gryffindor.

Sorry again about my babbling

[Tinkie]

Originally posted by Da da da da da86
He wanted to hide the fact that he was going to kill him. IIRC, the poeople could not see inside the hedge maze (I found the bleachers to be really stupid). The students had to send up sparks to let the teachers know they were in trouble. Since no one could see that Harry was whisked away to another place, killed, and whisked back, they'd assume he died from one of the monsters or something. In any other situation, they'd suspect foul play.

well said!no one would suspect foul play and Hogwarts would still look bad , because two students had died in the Tournament.
Plus maybe Voldie wanted to make it more dramatic, or complicated to show that he can do anything, because he is The Dark Lord isnt he? just putting something in the room would be sneaky, not clever enough for a wizard as powerful as him **sarcastic**

[Romulus Lupin]

I agree that it's a tiny bit bogus that they had to set up the whole thing with the cup as a portkey... just as the supposed 'challenges' leading up through to the Stone in Book 1.

One thing puzzles me, though. In the beginning of Book 4, when Voldemort and Wormtail are discussing their plan (shortly before they discover and kill Frank Bryce), Wormtail asks how long they will remain in the Riddle House. Voldemort answers "A week, perhaps longer." They were there when the third task was played, because they needed to be near Voldemort's father's grave. So... the question remains: Did they end up staying in the Riddle House for 10-11 months rather than the week or two as advertised, or did they go somewhere else for the bulk of the school year that we don't know about? The latter seems unlikely to me - travel was difficult for Voldemort at that time, and he wasn't in a position where he could afford to be seen.

So what accounts for this discrepancy?

[cristalfairy]

I could be wrong but I thought he was staying in Mr. Crouch's home and Mr. Crouch was his prisoner.

[daniel4hp]

Here's what I think about the Portkey:

Imagine everything went well like Voldemort expected. Harry turns up, Woldemort is reborn, he battles with Harry, easily wins, leaves Harry dead, and, with he death eaters, takes the Portkey back to Hogwarts. Everyone is together, is a state of semi-panic, Dumbledore and the teachers are there, as is Crouch. Remember how Crouch didn't take his potion? He would have timed it so that he would transform during the fight. He would start out on Dumbledore's side, not do any real harm, then, once transfigured, he could join Voldemort's side. This way, Voldemort could easily take over the school.

Idea originally from the Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon).

[Puffskein]

That's a good point. We don't know what Voldemort's whole plot was. Harry foiled it by getting out alive.

[Justin Etre]

he didnt want to bodge it up, did he?

[Yoshi]

Well, Voldemort's plan was sort of successful, I mean he's back isn't he?

[ninny]

ok i have a few questions abt portkeys.

when they were going for the world cup, the portkey worked only at the definite time.

but the cup transported them as soon as they touched it.

how's that?

[gred&forge4ever]

I am bumping this thread up. I have the same questions as niiny. Arthur clearly states on the way to th World Cup that a Portkey only works at a prearranged time. I mean can you imagin ethe Muggle dustmen picking up the portkey and being sucked into the wizarding world? It makes sense that portkeys would have to be prearranged. Remember that they all had to hold the boot until a certain time before it worked. How did Barty Crouch kknow the exact time that Cedric and Harry would touch the cup?

Also, At the World Cup portkeys only had a one time use. remember that Basil tossed the used ones into a pile? I was left with the impresssion that a portkey only travlled one way. Yet Harry was able to use it again to retunr to Hogwarts, could the figures of Voldie's vitcims used some sort of magic to reactivate the portkey?

[Leda]

I was wondering about that too. But when I read it again I imagined that there are different spells to use on a portkey. Just like buying a one-way ticket or a return ticket maybe.

[Mirabella]

Those are interesting points about the Trophy being a two-way Portkey, and that the QWC Portkeys only being used at certain times...I hadn't pondered those before now.

Maybe Portkeys do work both ways, depending on circumstances. At the QWC, the main objective was to keep Muggles from finding out about it. The arrival and departure of everyone had to be carefully orchestrated to not draw attention, so the Portkeys were assigned times. The MoM couldn't chance a Muggle accidentally picking up a Portkey, so they could only be used once.

As for Voldemort using the Triwizard Cup as a Portkey, rather than just any old object, we need to remember that it was Harry he wanted. Anyone in Hogwarts could have picked up a Portkey like that. What better way to ensure that Harry touched the Portkey and no one else than to (a) make sure Harry was made school champion and (b) make sure Harry won the tournament. Remember, Barty Jr was in the maze, taking out Fleur, using Krum to attack Cedric, removing obstacles from Harry's path. He just didn't count on Harry coming to Cedric's aid or being generous enough at the end to let Cedric claim the Cup with him.

[gred&forge4ever]

However, The question still remains...why was athe triwizard cup a two way portkey? Surely Crouch Jr. did not set it up that way.

[Yadiami]

Originally posted by gred&forge4ever
However, The question still remains...why was athe triwizard cup a two way portkey? Surely Crouch Jr. did not set it up that way.

Why not? Crouch Jr. is quite powerful (he fouled the goblet). I think he could have make it a two-way. It could have been a more difficult spell (we don't know) but probably is something he could achieve.

Then, Voldemort and his Death Eaters could come back and cause that fight at Hogwarts.

/mode Hermione on:
In Hogwarts you can't Aparate, so maybe you need a portkey to enter the grounds.

[JoFaye]

I think Voldemort wanted a dramatic announcement "He's baaaaaaack!"
Also, show that his power was supior to Harry's.

Besides, J.K. knows what she's doing. It was just darn good reading.

[EvilMeghan]

There's a reason to everything in the HP books. Perhaps this will become more clear in the next three books? Hmmm...

(Just my thinking): I remember one of the evil people saying they wanted it to look like an accident (or am I just making things up?). Obviously, Voldie has a plan that we do not know, and it was important things happened this way - maybe he wasn't ready for the spell until close to the time of the last task and then he figured he'd wait a little more to get Harry to him.

[jamie_leah]

I think Voldemort used the trophy as a portkey rather than any other object because he wasn't strong enough yet. He had to regain some strength before transforming back to his former body and since he needed time and Harry's blood why not wait until the end of the TWT when he knew Barty Jr would make sure it was Harry who won and grabbed the trophy. But then things didn't go as planned obviously when Cedric showed up with Harry :( and when Harry survived and came back to Hogwarts. The idea of the portkey being used so the DE and Voldemort could come to Hogwarts sounds feasible to me. Good thinking!

[Halo Demornay]

It seems that the characters of the Harry Potter series put much emphasis on symbolism. It would be an insult to the writing if an unimportant item had been used as a portkey.

But it also could have been that they wanted to use something that would transport Harry when and only when Voldemort was ready. Assuming that the potion used to bring Voldemort back was complex, it would have taken a while to gather the ingredients. It would have been pointless to abduct Harry before then, because we all know how people would react to Harry being abducted. THey would have gone looking for him in an instant. Not a good position for the weakened Voldy to be in. It most likely came down to timing.

[Mirabella]

This whole debate made me go back and reread "The Portkey" in GoF again. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see where it is ever explicitly stated that portkeys can only be one way.

I don't think Voldemort ever intended using the portkey to transport Harry's body back to Hogwarts. He in fact told Harry that he would become snake chow for Nagini.

So did Voldemort intend to use the portkey to transport himself and/or Death Eaters to Hogwarts? Maybe...or maybe not. Somehow, I think Voldemort will still be hiding, slowly rebuilding his strength and gathering followers at least until the end of OotP.

[Yadiami]

Originally posted by Mirabella
I don't think Voldemort ever intended using the portkey to transport Harry's body back to Hogwarts. He in fact told Harry that he would become snake chow for Nagini.

So did Voldemort intend to use the portkey to transport himself and/or Death Eaters to Hogwarts? Maybe...or maybe not. Somehow, I think Voldemort will still be hiding, slowly rebuilding his strength and gathering followers at least until the end of OotP.

Yes! I forgot he wanted to feed Nagini with Scar-meat.
I also think he wants to be stronger before he strikes; but, if he didn't want to go to Hogwarts then, why the Portkey was a two-way one? It's quite weird.
Or maybe he's just a megalomaniac who though that a quick battle at Hogwarts would be good to be feared again.

[rotsiepots]

Presumably there are different types of spells one can use to turn an object into a Portkey. The more complex spell seems to be the one utilised at the Quidditch World Cup, whereby ordinary Muggle objects were enchanted for a single use (Basil throws the Weasleys' Portkey onto a pile of "used" ones) at a prearranged time. Thus to arrange this sort of Portkey, the spell cast when enchanting the object must specify both direction (eg unidirectional/bidirectional/indefinite) and a particular time for use (eg 8am/12pm/indefinite). It's quite likely, therefore, that when Barty Crouch Jr enchanted the Triwizard Cup he specified an indefinite time for use. Afterall, he didn't know the precise time when Harry would arrive at the Portkey.

Presumably he specified a birectional Portkey so that the Death Eaters could travel en masse to Hogwarts. Apparating is all very well and good, but certainly any hypothetical attack on Hogwarts would be best executed if the Death Eaters and Voldemort arrived together simultaneously. Harry was never intended to use that return trip.

[harryton]

Originally posted by TheShadow (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=3107#post3107))
Well Sirius got in didn't he and we're talking about Voldermort here.


i belive he found a list of passwords, that neville had droped.

[gred&forge4ever]

This whole debate made me go back and reread "The Portkey" in GoF again. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't see where it is ever explicitly stated that portkeys can only be one way.


Arthur does state that portkeys are one way at the beginning of the GoF.

Why not? Crouch Jr. is quite powerful (he fouled the goblet). I think he could have make it a two-way. It could have been a more difficult spell (we don't know) but probably is something he could achieve.

What I MEANT is why would Barty make the portkey 2-way, when Harry could use it to escape. My thought was that maybe the things that came out of the wands somehow made the portkey work as a return to Hogwarts

[pegoheart144]

Originally posted by Ferrik (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=3138#post3138))
Voldemort's a meglomaniac who obviously hasn't read the "Guidelines for Evil Overlords".;D Not only was he toying with Harry, he was also toying with Dumbledore. He wanted to make DD look incompetent. By using his convoluted plan, he could reveal later on that he had been behind it all, and people with perfect hindight would have said, "Of course. Why didn't Dumbledore realize this? The old man must be losing it." He gets rid of a threat and discredits an old enemy all at the same time.
I definitely think you've got something there. Part of Voldemort's plan was to snatch Harry with a crowd watching, right from under Dumbledore's nose.

[crookshanks76]

Yeah, JKR could have made the portkey Harry's bed, shoes, toothbrush, or school books but what fun would that be? Where would the challenge be for the reader? A good writer makes her/his readers "work"for the story.

[cedric]

i was thinking maybe he could have put someone under the imperio curse and make someone do it for him.

[pegoheart144]

Voldemort didn't have to put the Imperius Curse on anybody to have the portkey made and put in the maze. Moody/Crouch was his willing supporter at Hogwarts.

[cedric]

i was talking about mad eye moody. but that where JKR creativity comes in. yes it could have been VERY easy to make his pillow a portkey but where the excitement and adventure. honestly i would have been disappointed if she did .

[Alorra Spinnet]

I'm not so sure they could have made Harry's pillow into a portkey. The only time we have seen Portkeys used (so far at least) is outside. I'm not sure they would work indoors. They needed something outdoors that they could be sure that only Harry would get too, by whatever means. Harry better be real carefull of the snitch in up-coming Quidditch matches. :(

[franke]

I have a question. If the Triwizard Cup was a portkey, couldn't Harry and Cedric just transported back the minute they arrived in the cemetary. Or even after Cedric was killed why didn't Harry just grab the cup?
Just curious

[I heart Sirius]

Well I'm sure he could have (and for obvious plot reasons didn't) I was thinking bout that too the other day. But at first they didn't know if that was sposed to happen or what was going on. Then I think after Cedric died it was just too late. Like, Harry was in shock I'm sure and then you know what happened after that. He just didn't have time to react I think.

[Sorting Hat's Songwriter]

I agree, they thought it was part of the task, so started walkin, before they knew it, they were too far away from the cup, and in deep trouble, ie cedric was dead and harry bein dragged away. Theres loads of places in GoF where easier and more obvious things should have happened, but it just wouldnt be as exciting!!!!

[onetruegryffindor]

sorting hats songwriter is probably right
thats what i thought when i read it

[rusk]

Well they were still unsure as to whether it was part of the task or not. So they didn't grab the cup right away and go back.

Then when Voldemort got near, Harry fell to the ground in pain because of his scar, and Cedric was killed.

They never had a chance to grab it.

[mrscoach]

You know what I always wondered, is that for the Quidditch World Cup when they use the portkeys, they're set to transport you at a specific time - remember how Arthur Weasley is saying they have like, 4 minutes or something, and then at a specific time they're transported to the World Cup? And the same for returning - they get up early to get an earlier portkey home because of the whole Dark Mark thing. So with the Triwizard Cup, why is it that Harry can transport himself back at all? With the Quidditch World Cup, once they use the portkey once, they're done with it. Did I miss something there, or is it odd that the Triwizard Cup works to transport Harry back to Hogwarts "on demand," so to speak?

[Sorting Hat's Songwriter]

My thoughts exactly, mrs coach. It seems GoF has a lot of things that are small inconsistancies, but we're just gonna have to let JK off, after all, theyre hardly massive plot holes.

[Girl]

Maybe there was a timer on the port key ment to transport Voldermort back to Hogworts after he killed Harry. It could have been the plan for Voldermort to reapear at Hogworts with a dead Harry. This would cause a great fear. Or maybe it was to transport a daed Harry back. Remember it was Harry's dad who told him to get to the port key. Maybe his father knew that it was time for the port key to leave.

[I heart Sirius]

Ooh I hadn't thought of that! I was also wondering how he'd be able to just go back. Maybe we just don't know that it can work like that yet.

[franke]

That is how I thought too. Why can Harry go back at any time? But if you think about it, at the beginning of GoF, He said they had to transport at a specific time because there were so many transporting. Maybe, the MoM just designed those portkeys with that specific feature. Then, when Crouch changed the cup to a portkey, he just did it to get Harry there at any time because he didn't know when the tournament would end.

Or maybe they can only transport you AFTER a specific time, you know, like after five o'clock you can use it but not before. Then anytime afterwards you can get home.

However, didn't they use a different portkey to get home from the World Cup than they took to get there?

[Michelle]

Maybe there are different kinds of portkeys e.g. some work only at a specific time & some just by touching them. I was also wondering about that since the first time I read GoF.

[rusk]

They did use a different one to get back then they took to get there. I think it was a boot to get there, a tire to go back.

I just think the portkey can be setup either way you want. They were on set schedules at the World Cup because of the number of people trying to reach the same spot. They didn't want them all arriving at the same time. People might get "splinched" into each other (or whatever that word was).

This wasn't the case in the Third Task. That portkey only needed to take the first person who touched it to the graveyard.

The fact that the cup could go back to Hogwarts might have been set up for another purpose. I like to think that Voldemort planned on sending Harry's dead body back to Hogwarts as sort of a message to Dumbledore saying "I'm back." Seems like something he would do to put terror back into the magical community. It just didn't work out that way.

[franke]

Exactly, there must have been some reason why Harry could get back with the same portkey. JKR would not just leave it to coincidence! Interesting!
Wonder what Voldemort was up to? Maybe he was planning on sending someone back for Crouch?

I can't wait to find out!

[Lestrange]

Originally posted by Girl (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=328444#post328444))
Maybe there was a timer on the port key ment to transport Voldermort back to Hogworts after he killed Harry. It could have been the plan for Voldermort to reapear at Hogworts with a dead Harry. This would cause a great fear. Or maybe it was to transport a daed Harry back.


It can't be that, though. I just finished reading Goblet of Fire, and it says that Voldemort was planning to give the body of Harry to his snake, Nagini. Maybe they were going to send the bones back, or something of his, like his wand.....

[ArabellaBlack]

I think franke said that a portkey might be set to be able to work at or after a specific time, just not before. That's likely, because then you'd have a lot of portkeys just turning up everywhere, with no people. Plus, the ministry makes them unobtrusive for the Quiiditch World Cup because they don't want muggles to go around playing with it, which would be odd if the chances of them being transported at just that time were so small. That argument made a lot more sense in my head, though. Sorry.

Maybe Portkeys can be used to get back, but then why didn't the ministry just do that...? And why would Voldemort bother with a portkey? Couldn't he just Apparate?

Who's gonna say it, who's gonna say it? :)

[Barbara Kennedy]

Not me, this time. <big grin>

[mrscoach]

Originally posted by ArabellaBlack (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=328756#post328756))

Maybe Portkeys can be used to get back, but then why didn't the ministry just do that...? And why would Voldemort bother with a portkey? Couldn't he just Apparate?




But he couldn't onto the Hogwarts grounds, remember? I'm re-reading GOF right now, and I just read the part where Durmstrang was about to arrive, and Ron suggests that maybe they'll apparate, and Hermione reminds him again that you can't apparate in Hogwarts.
But then again, if Voldemort himself just appeared at Hogwarts, with this huge crowd there, wouldn't he have to expect at least somewhat of a fight? I mean, it's not like everyone would just freak out and scatter, like in a horror movie. There would be a good number of witches and wizards (like Dumbledore, McGonagall, etc) who would try something to halt him or something, right?

[Kneazle]

I am going to merge this with a previous thread titled "The portkey on the trophy in book 4". It is not about this specific question, but nevertheless it can cover all inquiries about the Portkey. :)

[Magi]

Upon re-reading GoF, I have come to the conclusion that Barty Crouch Jr. (fake Moody) displayed very poor espionage skills.

Two lingering questions:

1. Why didn't Crouch Jr. create a portkey to transport Harry before the 3rd Triwizard task? It would not have made any difference in terms of discretion - Harry disappears anyway regardless. As an example, Crouch Jr could have made a portkey out of Harry's Firebolt, on the evening of the first task (he knew Harry would summon the Firebolt thanks to his hint), or perhaps Harry's pillow? No more risky than the original plan.

2. Why did Crouch Jr. risk exposing himself by blasting stuff through the "outer hedges" of the maze, and cursing Fleur and Krum? The event was being watched by the entire school, and someone is bound to notice that "Moody" is tampering with various creatures and obstacles. This leads back to my first question - it would have been easier to transport Harry some other time.

[dorcasderr]

Perhaps the timing was not up to him and he was following Voldemort's orders. Voldemort's sense of the dramatic may have demanded this dramatic climax.

[Ecthelion]

1. Why didn't Crouch Jr. create a portkey to transport Harry before the 3rd Triwizard task? It would not have made any difference in terms of discretion - Harry disappears anyway regardless. As an example, Crouch Jr could have made a portkey out of Harry's Firebolt, on the evening of the first task (he knew Harry would summon the Firebolt thanks to his hint)? No more risky than the original plan.

Ok, this is a horribly genaric answer but.... I seem to remember Voldemort saying that the plan could not be accomplished yet until one more death had occured. This happened at the end of the book. I believe that this one more death was Crouch but I am not sure. Anyways, that is my answer and I hope it helps a bit. It doesn't really answer the question but it does tell why:)

2. Why did Crouch Jr. risk exposing himself by blasting stuff through the "outer hedges" of the maze, and cursing Fleur and Krum?

Because he had to do what he could to make sure that the plan worked. And that meant going to the extremes. He HAD to get this part of the plan for his master. I am sure that he used some sort of invisibility or cameoflage technique to not be seen.

[DocHollidaywe]

Perhaps it was Voldermorts plan, who was he to go against them

[fanatic_j]

It's obvious that Barty, Jr. wasn't as bright at the end of the book as he was before his identity was revealed. Not knowing about the existence of the Marauder's Map could have lead to his downfall much sooner.

I too wondered what the onlooking crowd must think seeing Victor attacking Cedric, even if they didn't see Barty (as Moody) curse Fleur. He goes on to mention cursing other obstacles out of Harry's way. I am interested in finding out how he did that without the crowd noticing and without drawing attention to himself.

When I read (and re-read) the third task, I pictured stands rising above the hedges looking down upon the maze. How else could they view the events?

[Lily Black]

Maybe JKR just got carried away..and she knew she had to finish Harry's year at Hogwarts but she didnt want half of the 4th book to have Voldemort already around. I think she just did it to have that master plan thing and that whole 'explaination at the end thing'. Crouch Jr. could've probably gotten Harry's blood and gotten it to Voldemort at the begining of the school year. He could've used a memory charm. Sometimes fully trained wizards never use the easiest way out..4 some reason.
But I'm pretty sure JKR just had it drawn out like that to be dramatic.
~L

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

Originally posted by dorcasderr (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=373234#post373234))
Perhaps the timing was not up to him and he was following Voldemort's orders. Voldemort's sense of the dramatic may have demanded this dramatic climax.

I agree. Maybe there were other timing issues as well: the spell required the anniversary of the death of Riddle's father, or a certain phase of the moon, or something else that wouldn't have worked until that particular night.

[velvet goldmine]

hey i'm new here and i am a bit confused....somebody please talk to me cause i feel lost...:(:(:(:(

[Evilrabbit]

If you ask me, this is just one of JKR's very rare blunders. I know she's a genius but hey we're all human. I know it doesn't make sense that Moody had to do all that stuff when there's a million other small thing he could have transformed into a portkey, but let's bear with JKR, we owe her for writing such great books!;)

[velvet goldmine]

JK rowling is the best.the plot of her books is great and the end of each book is totally unexpected.she is the best writer in the universe!:)

[Fuchsia]

Your question is also covered in the thread The Triwizard Cup Portkey in GoF (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=164).
:) :)

[velvet goldmine]

your siggy is funny!heh:D

[Fidelius]

I always assumed that it had to be done on the anniversary of the death of Tom Riddle Snr or something like that.

[aragog]

Voldie has a love for the dramatic, that's all :)

But really, Voldemort needed time to nurse himself back up to health to survive the journey back to his father's grave, he needed time to prepare whatever the heck it was in that cauldron, he needed time to set everything in order with Crouch Jr. "Moody" had to be able to fool everyone and blowing his cover by transporting Harry away at the first task wouldn't have done him much good regardless of whether the plan worked or not.

Causing mayhem at the pinnacle of the Tri-Wizard Tournament seems like a Voldemort thing to do, doesn't it?

[Cat]

I don't think it was a blunder at all. For Crouch or for JKR.

Maybe Voldemort wasn't ready until the end of the year? Maybe the potion wouldn't be ready for the final ingredients until around that time? Remember how long it took to brew the Polyjuice Potion? This one was even more complex than that.

[Pucko]

we can come up with as many explanations as we want, but the truth is, how much fun would the book have been if voldie came back at the beginning???
JK might explain it in a later book, u never know...
I would like to know how "moody" was able to curse things out of the way for Harry without being seen...

[Carbito]

JKR just would not write it that way.
Although that would be the sensible thing to do it would mean that the fourth book would be over so much quicker. If it happened any earlier there would be no story!

[Pucko]

Originally posted by Da da da da da86 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=3147#post3147))
He wanted to hide the fact that he was going to kill him. IIRC, the poeople could not see inside the hedge maze (I found the bleachers to be really stupid). The students had to send up sparks to let the teachers know they were in trouble. Since no one could see that Harry was whisked away to another place, killed, and whisked back, they'd assume he died from one of the monsters or something. In any other situation, they'd suspect foul play.


Harry was gone for quite some time, so your theory doesn't quite hold. Somebody would have noticed him being gone, plus the cup didn't bring him back to the middle of the maze.
Also, VOldie want people to know he killed Harry Potter, he wants people to know he's back and powerful, he doesn't care about foul play anymore

[Cat]

Originally posted by Pucko (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=374002#post374002))
we can come up with as many explanations as we want, but the truth is, how much fun would the book have been if voldie came back at the beginning???
JK might explain it in a later book, u never know...
I would like to know how "moody" was able to curse things out of the way for Harry without being seen...


Yeah, but that's the lazy answer. And Ms Rowling herself probably had more in mind than that.

And... er... Moody was in a maze. How much more hidden can you be?

[Moonstone]

Perhaps the Triwizard Cup portkey was always set up to transport the tournament winner out of the maze. After getting through all the obstacles, the winner touches the cup and is teleported to the waiting crowd instead of having to find his way out. Crouch, Jr. may have just magically programmed the extra trip to the graveyard as part of Voldemort's master plan, much like he tricked the Goblet of Fire into accepting another champion.

[Moonstone]

Why would it be a blunder? If Harry disappeared at an international event right under Dumbledore's nose, it would be a shock to the wizarding world and a major blow against Dumbledore. Harry also had to be transported at a specific time so that Voldemort and Peter would be in the vicinity to meet him.

The crowd's attention was also on the champions, not the teachers guarding the maze. Crouch, Jr. probably chose his moments to interfere with the other champions with care.

[devoweirdman]

OK, so Voldemort/"Moody" couldn't change anything in Gryffindor into a portkey without the password. Imagine if he turned, say, one of Harry's books or his broom into a portkey. Harry would most likely be around a lot of people and not by himself when he touched it. He touches something and disappears in front of a crowd of people, somebody would notice and say, "Hey where the heck did Harry just go". Soon there would be scores of people looking for him and Voldemort wouldn't have any time to do what he wanted to do. Since he was in the maze, when he touched the portkey nobody noticed he was missing. In addition, at least with the triwizard cup Voldemort knew approximately when Harry would arrive, instead of waiting around for days on end for him to get there. I think it makes much more sense the way JK did it, and not just because of the whole "the book wouldn't have been the same" theory.

[FredRocksMySocks]

I'm not sure if this was said, but isn't the main reason for doing the whole TriWizard dealie because it was an inconspicuous way to make Harry die without arising any great suspicions. It's easier to believe that he died in a tast then to be like, "Hey, I haven't seen Harry in a few days....." It's much more plausible if he were to "die" in something life-threatening then to disappear with no reason.

[MicheleLovegood]

Maybe part of the reason Voldemort wanted Harry to be transported by portkey at the end of the contest and not earlier was the date. JKR notes the date of the third task as June 24. (I don't think she states the specific dates in the earlier tasks...that's how I noted it). June 24 is one the tradtional dates for celebrating Midsummer in the Celtic calendar (that and the 21st we are used to...). At Midsummer, natural waters are suppossed to have addtional powers. Maybe Voldemort needed Harry to be in the cemetary on that particular day because the water in the cauldron would be more magical on that day....or maybe even Harry's blood is more powerful on that day. Just a thought.

I have never ever posted on anything ever in my life before, so I am sorry if I have done anything wrong.

[Magi]

I have never ever posted on anything ever in my life before, so I am sorry if I have done anything wrong.No worries. You haven't done anything wrong. In fact, your post was an excellent one! :)

[emma madison]

Maybe part of the reason Voldemort wanted Harry to be transported by portkey at the end of the contest and not earlier was the date. JKR notes the date of the third task as June 24. (I don't think she states the specific dates in the earlier tasks...that's how I noted it).
Actually, she does.:blush: The first task was November 24th, the second February 24th, and the third is indeed June 24th.

the main reason for doing the whole TriWizard dealie because it was an inconspicuous way to make Harry die without arising any great suspicions. It's easier to believe that he died in a tast
^ is right, it was stated somewhere in GoF.


The portkey used for the Quidditch World Cup was an old boot; they used a different one for going back. So the Triwizard Cup... why did it work both ways? Did James somehow enable it to be a portkey going back as well? He was the one who told Harry it would take him back to Hogwarts...

[Silkeng]

The portkey used for the Quidditch World Cup was an old boot; they used a different one for going back. So the Triwizard Cup... why did it work both ways? Did James somehow enabled it to be a portkey going back as well? He was the one who told Harry it would take him back to Hogwarts...

Actually I read a quite good essay on this off the Lexicon. The theory was that Voldemort planned on killing Harry then he and the DE's would use the cup to return and take over Hogwarts. Barty Crouch Jr. didn't need his polyjuice potion anymore because he expected the return, and to fight at Voldemort's side. Anyway a great theory I liked it and it made since with the facts.

[free_girl]

Well Sirius got in didn't he and we're talking about Voldermort here.
But I think I remember that Sirius only got in because Neville drop the list of passwords in one of the hallways.

[red_fairy]

I think it was partly because for Voldemort to get back at the begining would be boring. However, I think there is another reason.

Someone earlier had the brilliant idea that the cup was always a portkey that would take the winner out to the crowd.

Following that theory, the cup carries him to the graveyard. Let's say that Voldemort's plans are work and Harry dies. His body is then carried to the crowd. For him to die not only under Dumbledore, but the minister of magic and the (really Barty Crouch, who can disappear after this and get rid of the real Moody) famous auror mad eye moody, it would be a major blow to the credibility of not only Dumbledore, but the government and aurors.

[Shauna]

I love your ideas, red_fairy, especially the idea that the Cup was always a Portkey and that LV needs drama to discredit all the good guys. These seem most in character.

Shauna

[PunkRockGoddess]

I think the main reason for the Trophy being the port key was because it made the story more interesting. I always wondered why they would go through the trouble of putting the trophy there when all they would have to do is throw something that Harry would pick up in the yard or something. It could of been alot easier I think.

[zveron]

I was thinking that casting the portus spell will trigger a alarm at the ministry of magic (transportion control) and if fake Moody cast portus (seem to be one of the few things that can transport someone out of Hogwarts) on other things it will cause a alarm at the ministry (fudge say "...it is not authorized.." to DD when he change the head to a portkey. ootp.). As someone had pointed out, the Cup must have been a portkey to bring the champion out of the Maze (if not fake Moody would have suggested it for dramatic conclusion). Fake Moody must also 'volunteer' for the task and inserted a 'detour' to the cemetry. That would certainly not cause any alarm at the ministry as the destination is authorized.

Making an object a portkey must have also leave a 'magical' mark on it (possibily stating the destination). Else how did Amos know it was the old boot? That make the above hypothesis strong as then DD and the rest will just see the cup as a portkey to back to the Hogwarts ground. And that must be why James know that the cup is a portkey back to Hogwarts.

[HermioneLuna]

Voldemort didn't want anyone to know he had returned. If Harry had just vanished from Hogwarts, it would draw to much suspicion onto the situation and Voldemort wanted to make sure that didn't happen. By waiting until the final task of the Triwizard Tournament, Voldemort could take Harry, get his blood, and kill him and have people think it happened as a result of the task. Then Voldemort would have risen again, with Peter and Crouch Jr.'s assistance of course, and only his Death Eaters would know.

[Durandal]

Here's what I think about the Portkey:

Imagine everything went well like Voldemort expected. Harry turns up, Woldemort is reborn, he battles with Harry, easily wins, leaves Harry dead, and, with he death eaters, takes the Portkey back to Hogwarts. Everyone is together, is a state of semi-panic, Dumbledore and the teachers are there, as is Crouch. Remember how Crouch didn't take his potion? He would have timed it so that he would transform during the fight. He would start out on Dumbledore's side, not do any real harm, then, once transfigured, he could join Voldemort's side. This way, Voldemort could easily take over the school.

Idea originally from the Harry Potter Lexicon (http://www.i2k.com/~svderark/lexicon).

That is my favourite editorial of all time. Not only does it fit with all the facts, but it also fits Voldy's style (at that point he would be "immortal", because no one would have the power to vanquish him) so he would feel free warping in with his followers and start randomly killing people, including important people Dumbledore and Fudge, then leaving a few hundred survivors to spread to story and terrorize the rest of the population.

[Fawkesified]

That is my favourite editorial of all time. Not only does it fit with all the facts, but it also fits Voldy's style (at that point he would be "immortal", because no one would have the power to vanquish him) so he would feel free warping in with his followers and start randomly killing people, including important people Dumbledore and Fudge, then leaving a few hundred survivors to spread to story and terrorize the rest of the population.
I thought he wanted to keep his return secret. I assumed he would have dumped Harry's body in the maze to make it look like an accident.

[chrisbll85]

we can come up with as many explanations as we want, but the truth is, how much fun would the book have been if voldie came back at the beginning???
JK might explain it in a later book, u never know...
I would like to know how "moody" was able to curse things out of the way for Harry without being seen...
because moody as that magical i so he knew when to use his wand and when not to

[Dawn_Potter]

I thought he wanted to keep his return secret. I assumed he would have dumped Harry's body in the maze to make it look like an accident.

This would make perfect sense as I believe it has been said that people died in the triwizard tournament before.
So Harry would be taken to the graveyard, "help" getting Voldemort's body back, have a quick death and be back again for people to mourn over him without knowing how it happened.
Specially when you think they had Victor under the Imperius spell at some point this would make perfect sense if you ask me.

[Paintball]

I started a new thread and it was closed and I was referred to this thread, so here is my post:

Why did the Triwizard Portkey return to Hogwarts. At the start of GOF the Portkeys were thrown in a barrel. They weren't set aside for the return trip. We found out in OOTP that they are created by saying the word portus and I guess thinking of the portkey's destination. I have no doubt that even if a roundtrip portkey can be created, that Crouch, Jr. would not have done so when he turned the cup into a portkey. There are no doubt more possibities then these listed, so please add to this list or pick your favorite possibility from this list:

(1) Portkeys always return to their original place of origin on their own. I can't buy this because of the way they were discarded at the start of the book.

(2) Snape was at the Graveyard and saved Harry's life

(3) James was able to create the portkey when he came out of Voldemort's wand

(4) Wormtail created the portkey when he went and got Harry's wand. This is my favorite theory. When the wands locked maybe James was able to know the spells created by Harry's wand and therefore knew about the portkey

(5) someone invisible or wearing a cloak was in the graveyard and created the portkey

[Magnetic_123]

Well the most possible explanation is that the portkey was used to return to the outside of the maze. The plan was that Crouch Jr. altered it to go to the graveyard first and then go to the outside of the maze.