Second Chances

[BuddyBoy]

Hey folks, Im currently Re-re-reading Book four, and I noticed that Hagrid had mentioned to Harry that his own father had died while Hagrid was in his second year.

Any speculation as to who killed him?

Also, in that same chapter (this is after the Yule Ball, and after the "expose" in the Prophet), Hargid goes on to say how Dumbledore always gives people second chances..

These are the ones I can think of..

Hagrid: Dumbledore took him in as game keeper, and let him teach, even after Hagrid was expelled, and even after Hagrid got sent to Azkaban.

Sybil Trelawney: He hired her becuase of her one true prophecy, and kept her even though her gift of sight is uhm.. inconsistent

Lupin: He took him into Hogwarts as a werewolf student, and even as a teacher

Snape: He took him back even though he was affiliated with Dark Wizards.

I wonder what the significance of these are besides indications of DD's character.

[Cat]

I think it's possible that Hagrid's dad died naturally.

I don't see how those actions could be significant as anything but a show of Dumbledore's character.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

DD gave Sirius a second chance after trying to kill Snape 6th year.

Other second chances in the future:

Almost certainly Fudge will get a second chance.
When it's all said and done, possibly Bane and others will get a second chance.

[eruriel]

I wonder if he would give someone a third chance.

[HannahStarr]

All these sceond chances just give insight into DD's personality, nothing else. I don't think there's anything significant about it. And, Hagrid's father most likely died naturally - I doubt he was murdered or anything like that.

[phoenix_gurl]

Hey folks, Im currently Re-re-reading Book four, and I noticed that Hagrid had mentioned to Harry that his own father had died while Hagrid was in his second year.

Any speculation as to who killed him?

Also, in that same chapter (this is after the Yule Ball, and after the "expose" in the Prophet), Hargid goes on to say how Dumbledore always gives people second chances..

These are the ones I can think of..

Hagrid: Dumbledore took him in as game keeper, and let him teach, even after Hagrid was expelled, and even after Hagrid got sent to Azkaban.

Sybil Trelawney: He hired her becuase of her one true prophecy, and kept her even though her gift of sight is uhm.. inconsistent

Lupin: He took him into Hogwarts as a werewolf student, and even as a teacher

Snape: He took him back even though he was affiliated with Dark Wizards.

I wonder what the significance of these are besides indications of DD's character.

Yeah, they maybe an indication of Dumbledore's character, but i don't think he gave Lupin a secon chage did he? i mean he never did anything bad.

[SnowyOwl]

I agree that Hagrid's father died by natural causes. I think that Hagrid would have spoken about it differently.

There is no need to give Lupin a second chance. Lupin resigned.

I have often wondered if Dumbledore himself was the recipient of a second chance.

[Tirwen Lupin]

Snowy Owl, that's an interesting idea. Maybe Dumbledore gives so many people second chances because he had recieved one himself.
And yes, I think all these second chances aren't really significant to te plot (I mean, that they're not all tied together by some hidden connection), but they do go to show what a great, compassionate character Dumbledore is.
And as for Hagrid's dad, he could quite probably have died from natural causes. Or...perhaps he was murdered by giant-haters (like Umbridge) because he had been married to a giant?

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Or...perhaps he was murdered by giant-haters (like Umbridge) because he had been married to a giant?
I really doubt it - if so then everybody would already know that Hagrid was a halfgiant, most likely.

[Tirwen Lupin]

I really doubt it - if so then everybody would already know that Hagrid was a halfgiant, most likely.
Doh! :banghead: Why did I say that in the first place? :lol: Still, there could have been a few people who knew...I don't really think so, though. A death by natural causes is more likely.

[Fairydust]

I'm thinking Hagrid's dad died of natural causes. If he was like an elf (Legolas :drool: ) then he could have died of a broken heart. :elaugh:

[Hammi]

I think it's a bit rash of us to jump to the conclusion that Hagrid's father was murdered. But on the other hand, we can't rule it out can we. Hm..maybe he was murdered though mby a deatheater or something for one reason or another.Can't be sure can we. I do think though that it is unlikely that he was murdered.

[Animagi rock!]

I don't think Hagrid's dad was murdered. When he talks about it, he seems sad, but doesn't show any emotions that would make me believe that anything out of the ordinary happened. And Hagrid isn't very good at hiding his feelings. Harry would surely have noticed if Hagrid felt uncomfortable with the subject.

As for the second chances ... that just shows that Dumbledore understands that people can change in the course of time and just because they made a mistake once doesn't mean they're bad people. I like the theory about him having been given a second chance himself. Any theories on what he could have done wrong to need a second chance?

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I can't imagine a situation where DD would need a second chance. The only thing I could think of him doing that would be wrong would be something of the romantic nature; DD seems like such a good person that only if he was young and, um, madly in love with someone would he actually do something wrong. DD will break the rules, but he never does anythan truly BAD.

[Doggy]

Well, hesdead-dealwithit, Dumbledore could have been a horrible person when he was young, and then someone gave him a second chance, and he changed his whole personality. Like Snape or something.

Please note: I do not agree with what I wrote above, I'm just stating it as an idea.

Anyway, he didn't exactly give Lupin a second chance, more of a first chance when he accepted him to Hogwarts, which noone had done with a werewolf before (and a second chance I guess when Lupin unwillingly almost attacked Snape, and a third one when he just as unknowingly almost attacked Harry and Hermione and Ron and the rest of them).

Same with Trellawny, I don't agree that he gave her a second chance. It was more that he realised he was useful to have around with prophesies and stuff - and of course he wanted to make it up to her, but she hadn't exactly done something to loose her first chance.

[Ellen]

Wizards are supposed to be so long lived but they all die so young.

Hagrid's dad seems to have died well under his natural life expectancy of 150 years. Still, if WW II was going on and if there was also fighting led by Grindelwald, there must have been lots of ways he could have died without Hagrid feeling there was an individual who needed to pay.

[Liselle]

Technically Hagrid wasn't given a second chance as he never did anything wrong in the first place. Dumbledore saw this and was only trying to be fair. But I agree with the theme of this thread that many people have got a second chance from DD and it could be a sign that he himself got one from someone...hmm I have never thought of that before!

Liselle

[Tirwen Lupin]

Here's something about DD possibly needing a second chance:
A few weeks ago, in one of the Gryffindor Tower columns at mugglenet.com, one of Dumbledore's middle names was mentioned:
For Wulfric, here's what I got: Patron Saint. At first, Wulfric was a priest who liked to hunt and party more than tend to his flock. Apparently he saw the error in his ways, and repented, but no one knows why. One is that he encountered a beggar, another is that he repeated the verse "I will wash my hands among the innocent." He also had the gift of prophecy, and he was a counselor to two kings. I didn't find much on Percival, but it doesn't matter. The Wulfric stuff I find very interesting. For instance, it always seems like Dumbledore can see the future. During Fudge's early years as Minister of Magic, it was often Dumbledore from whom Fudge sought advice. Also, what do we know about Dumbledore? How do we know that he was never a Dark Wizard? He's old, and this Wulfric dude converted long before he was old. Then again, could be coincidence.
It's hard to imagine DD as anything other than the wise, caring wizard that we've all come to know, but his history goes back further than what Harry knows...I personally don't think him being a Dark wizard in the past is likely at all (certainly not likeable!) but it's still an idea...

[The Quibbler]

I think it is possible that Hagrid's dad died of natural reason's, just by the way he talked about it. Hagrid said he died, not that he was killed.

Umm, oh ya, second chances, well i think that the fact that Dumbledore gives second chances shows that he is a trusting man and someone who believes that mistakes do happen, and that everyone has some good in them (yes, even Snape), whether they choose to show it or not.

[noddwyd]

I can definitely see where Dumbledore might have needed a second chance once upon a time. Remember when he said 'I forgot what it was like to be young' or something similar when he was talking to Harry at the end of book five? He could be remembering some old mistakes of his own when he says this, and those are never very fond memories. Yes, I think he was a very different person at one point. But he obviously changed, whatever he had been like before. I don't think he was ever into the dark arts much though, although he probably studied them at some point so he would know what the enemy can do to you, and all. And later on he defeated Grindewald, so...

[chop]

Here's something about DD possibly needing a second chance:
A few weeks ago, in one of the Gryffindor Tower columns at mugglenet.com, one of Dumbledore's middle names was mentioned:

It's hard to imagine DD as anything other than the wise, caring wizard that we've all come to know, but his history goes back further than what Harry knows...I personally don't think him being a Dark wizard in the past is likely at all (certainly not likeable!) but it's still an idea...

Sir Percival was one ot the knights of the round table, being the herald of King Arthur and in close relation with Merlin, just to add up to your names theory.

[Tirwen Lupin]

LOL, chop, thanks. I don't exactly have a middle-names theory, that was just something that I came across by chance. And as to Percival, well, I don't know what that could mean.

[Gabi Potter]

Yes, it would be very interesting to know anything about Dumbledore when he was young. Do we know if he went to Hogwarts or what house he was in? I may be being completely stupid in asking these but I must have forgotten. If he is 150 years old, that gave him alot of time to do something bad and then change his ways.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

He was probably in Gryffindor; remember, he was Transfiguration teacher, and he has Godric's sword in his office (although it's not clear if every head has that sword in their office).

[Katy Kedevra]

Yes, it would be very interesting to know anything about Dumbledore when he was young. Do we know if he went to Hogwarts or what house he was in? I may be being completely stupid in asking these but I must have forgotten. If he is 150 years old, that gave him alot of time to do something bad and then change his ways.

Yes, he went to Hogwarts. In the first book, somewhere it is said that Dumbledore himself was in Gryffindor. Something that gets me is that Professor Marchbanks tested Dumbledore at NEWT level and (was it Professor Tofty?) who was the oldest looking wizard there? If they're older than Dumbledore and Dumbledore's 150+....... :huh:

[morgan le fay]

in theory, isnt DD currently giving tom riddle a second chance?? it is my personal opinion that the only reason DD cannot kill voldie is because his mind would never be able to command his body to do so; DD will never murder someone. he keeps saying that tom was foolish to think that there is nothing worse than death. and now, i dunno. this is sort of going nowhere. does ne one get what i mean? lol

i wonder if percy will be given a second chance ;)

[des06]

Technically Hagrid wasn't given a second chance as he never did anything wrong in the first place. Dumbledore saw this and was only trying to be fair.

Well he kind of was giving Hagrid a second chance. Everyone thought that Hagrid was Eeeevil and DD let him redeem himself in the eyes of others. Yeah that made more sense in my head.

I do think that DD was "bad" at some point. I think it would be interesting if he had studied the Dark Arts and was a Dark Wizard. Not necessarily one that was against all non-purebloods just one who enjoyed hexing random people for no reason. What I'm saying is that I don't think DD would have been racist, I think he would have been an equal-oppurtunity evil guy. That could just be my bias though.

On DD not being able to command his body to kill Voldie: I think that's very possiable. It reminds me of the part in Ender's Game where Mazar explains that only an innocent child can be the general because only they don't know how bad war is.

[Cat]

Yeah, they maybe an indication of Dumbledore's character, but i don't think he gave Lupin a secon chage did he? i mean he never did anything bad.

He did! He didn't tell Dumbledore that Sirius was an Animagus, even though he knew it must have been how Sirius had been getting into the castle. He didn't tell, even though he thought at the time that Sirius was out to kill a thirteen year old boy.

But Dumbledore still trusts Lupin and even wanted him to stay on as a teacher.

***

I think Dumbledore's persistant desire to give people another chance is emphasised in the series. Not just by the amount of people that he forgives. The phoenix, which is closesly associated with Dumbledore in the form of Fawkes and the Order, in symbolic of second chances. The bird smoulders and turns to dust, but that's alright because it can start a new life once more.

Going down the vein of Dumbledore being given a second chance, he needn't necessarily have done anything wrong. A person can be condemned while being innocent (think of Sirius! He only got a brief glimpse at another chance). I'm not suggesting that I don't believe Dumbledore could ever do anything wrong, I'm just going through the alternatives.

[Liselle]

He was probably in Gryffindor; remember, he was Transfiguration teacher, and he has Godric's sword in his office (although it's not clear if every head has that sword in their office).

was the sword in DD's office before Harry took it from the sorting hat though? I was trying to remember where I saw the bit about DD middle names too yesterday Tirewn Lupin....cool

Liselle

[Katy Kedevra]

I really do like the idea of Dumbledore being given a second chance once, but we may never find out his past. Although possible evidence to him once being a dark wiazard could be that in the second book, when Hermione asked Professor Binns about the Chamber of Secrets, at one point Professor Binns states that 'just because a wizard doesn't use dark magic doesn't mean he can't' or something along those lines. Maybe, once, Dumbledore did use dark magic, and Professor Binns was alive and heard about it (or he could have been dead and heard about it too, but he doesn't seem to care for news of the outside world now that he is dead).

[GryffindorSeeker]

Well, Dumbledore does certainly believe in second chances, doesn't he. It would make sense if he himself was given one. I've always wished to know more about Dumbledore's past. Haven't you?

[Doggy]

in theory, isnt DD currently giving tom riddle a second chance?? it is my personal opinion that the only reason DD cannot kill voldie is because his mind would never be able to command his body to do so; DD will never murder someone.

I don't think so, because he knows that Harry has to kill him - he told him in the end of OotP and it seems a bit jerky to say "I don't believe in killing so I'll let a 16/17 year old boy do it for me." If Dumbledore's that much against killing, he wouldn't let Harry do it either.

Absolutely beside the topic of the thread, but I believe Harry and Harry only can (as in: is able to) kill Voldemort.

[SnowyOwl]

I don't think it is necessary that we picture Dumbledore doing something cruel or lawless in order to receive his second chance. It can be something as simple as not being there for someone when they really need you, or a failure to act quickly enough in a given situation. A simple mess-up is all that is required for a second chance to become an option.

[Katy Kedevra]

I don't think it is necessary that we picture Dumbledore doing something cruel or lawless in order to receive his second chance. It can be something as simple as not being there for someone when they really need you, or a failure to act quickly enough in a given situation. A simple mess-up is all that is required for a second chance to become an option.

It's true that there are probably too many situations that Dumbledore could have been given a second chance in. In fact, probably everyone has had a number of second chances. Taking a make-up test for one thing is a second chance. But of course here we are talking about second chances for greater things. I think it would just be interesting if Dumbledore, once had strayed from his 'ultimate good self'. As everyone has good in them- including Snape- everyone has bad as well and possibly Dumbledore explored his own evil once and was given a second chance for that, if he was given one at all. ;)

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I don't think so, because he knows that Harry has to kill him - he told him in the end of OotP and it seems a bit jerky to say "I don't believe in killing so I'll let a 16/17 year old boy do it for me." If Dumbledore's that much against killing, he wouldn't let Harry do it either.

Absolutely beside the topic of the thread, but I believe Harry and Harry only can (as in: is able to) kill Voldemort.

I totally agree - only Harry CAN kill Voldemort.

Back on topic - DD also gave Filch a second chance. Okay, maybe it was his first chance, but very few people would hire a squib. And DD will almost definitely take Filch back in Book 6, and that will be giving him his second chance if you don't count hiring him in the first place his second chance.

[Tirwen Lupin]

Absolutely right--Harry is the ONLY person who can kill LV. He might not be the best in conventional magic, but he has to kill LV one way or the other.

But I think hiring Filch was a first chance--DD is not biased against non-magical people. But if he indeed allows Filch to stay at Hogwarts in book 6, that would be a HUGE second chance.

[SeekerLynch]

Dumbledore wouldn't be giving Filch a second chance by hiring him again after he didn't oppose Umbridge, and actually agreed with her. He didn't do anything to harm or hinder Dumbledore in any way, and Dumbledore knows everyone is entiteled to their opinion, so it wouldn't count as a second chance.