How Powerful is Harry?

[joelaughing]

Is Harry some ALL-powerful wizard or just a regular one with some extra abilities like quidditch and being able to overcome the imperious curse? What about Ron, Hermione, and the rest of the hogwarts students. Who do you think is the most powerful? I dont think Hermione is, but she is really smart. Maybe Ron will turn out to be good at divination.

[MakTB]

I think he is a powerful wizard. It's looks like he is the decendant of Godric, his father was powerful, he has some of Voldemort in him who was powerful.

I think he could be as powerful as Voldie and Dumbledore.

[Alorra Spinnet]

I don't think of Harry as being ALL powerfull. More powerfull than most, yes. His Patronus is just one example of that. Once he finally mastered the spell, even Hermione was impressed. ;)

[Knight]

Harry does have a lot of hidden talent. The Sorting Hat recognized this in the first book. As for being a POWERFUL wizard, that's a bit more of a stretch. His good nature and honorable personality add as much if not more to his wizarding abilites than his inate power.

[Tarawyn]

I don't think that he's an all-powerful wizard, but he does have quite a few special abilities and a rather strong source of raw power. He can drag up enough of this to do what is needed, and probably more of it because of his will--I was under the impression that it was his willpower, rather than his magical ones, that assisted him in defying Imperius--but he probably doesn't have supernatural amounts of power.

In the science fiction and fantasy world, main characters rarely are just ordinary. The problem with an "ordinary" character is that, in a fantastical world, it's difficult to dig into the depth to create an ordinary character with ordinary problems and an ordinary life, just drawing an experience of sorts out of it. The problem with something of that sort is that the author not only has to create a world, but create every single aspect of it, and moreso of the people who live there, with their simplicity. It's hard, and it's why such series revolve around difficulties and characters that are far from ordinary. Creating an ordinary character for such a world really would be an amazing feat.

[Katze]

I think that Harry is mostly a normal wizard tending to powerful.

He's definitely extremley powerful when it comes to DADA, and I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be extremely powerful in the Dark Arts (they both go together in my book).

Flying is an inherited trait.

I'm a firm beleiver that his parseltonggue is natural and not from V, despite what Dumbledore says. No one really knows if it's a natural talent or if he received it from V, because he was probably barely even talking when Voldemort attacked. We'll never know.

[MakTB]

Originally posted by Katze
I think that Harry is mostly a normal wizard tending to powerful.

He's definitely extremley powerful when it comes to DADA, and I wouldn't be surprised if he turns out to be extremely powerful in the Dark Arts (they both go together in my book).

Flying is an inherited trait.

I'm a firm beleiver that his parseltonggue is natural and not from V, despite what Dumbledore says. No one really knows if it's a natural talent or if he received it from V, because he was probably barely even talking when Voldemort attacked. We'll never know.

You maybe right, but with him being too young, I don't think that matters. Harry didn't know he could speak it. He didn't even know when he was speaking it. I do think he got that from V aswell as other traits which hasn't come up yet.

IMO Harry will be powerful, but not untill Book 7

[Tinkie]

i think that Harry is or will be an all powerful wizard. As Ollivander had said, they can expect great things from him. I think that Harry will be great like Voldie and DDore. i believe that it is still early. he still has to face hisown fears, he is not fully mature and grown up... but i think that in the end he will really be powerful...

[Kneazle]

I don't think he's all-powerful. Harry's a gifted lad with immense magical ability and strength of will and he's got a good head and an honorable character to govern him. I believe that by the end of the series he will be the most powerful living wizard-- he's got the potential and will be called on to exert himself.

[Ali]

Originally posted by Knight
Harry does have a lot of hidden talent. The Sorting Hat recognized this in the first book. As for being a POWERFUL wizard, that's a bit more of a stretch. His good nature and honorable personality add as much if not more to his wizarding abilites than his inate power.

I agree, he has some hidden powers which he does not know about... we might see some of them revealed sooner or later(in future books).

[samwitch]

i think that harry is powerful... but only made so by what he gained that halloween night when he "defeated" voldemort, from voldemort. other then that i believe harry is just a regular wizard, maybe one of the brighter ones, just like hermione.

i think what's going to happen and surprise us all, is neville. could he be he most powerful we will be seeing?

[mrs_fawkes]

there is your environment and there is hereditary.

there have been studies on what affects people most as they grow. with the environment harry grew up in, i'am very glad he turned out to not be vindictive ( at least to his friends). and harry did have two brilliant parents (i think i read that they were at the top of their class).
so i wouldn't be surprised if harry did turn out to ba a very powerful wizard (he has already learned more than the other students in his class, especially after being entered in the triwizard tourny).

[Sinistra]

I think Harry is powerful. He inherited a lot of potential, but unless he stretches himself and learns the peoper spells etc. he will not realize that potential.

Look at GoF, Harry starts out as a "normal" level wizard kid, he nearly muffs the first task, he only does well because Moody helps him. But by the third task, he is really working hard on his own and learning lots of great hexes. That book is where Harry really starts coming into his own. Up to then his actions are in response to what happens to him. In GoF, the last third of the book, Harry decides to take things into his own hands and starts being pro-active instead of merely re-active.

I think Harry will try being a bit more active in the next books, and maybe that will backfire on him. He is still a 16-year-old, after all. He needs to learn patience (though he does have loads of that) and maturity and judgment.

As to who is more powerful I would guess Malfoy could give Harry a run for his money, but Draco hasn't been stretched or tested as Harry has. Hermione is bright which will take her a long way. Ron comes from a talented family, but he hasn't been tested or come into his own yet. But I would guess Ron has a couple of talents we haven't expected. They may show up later on.

I want the next book.:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[MakTB]

Originally posted by Sinistra
I think Harry will try being a bit more active in the next books, and maybe that will backfire on him. He is still a 16-year-old, after all. He needs to learn patience (though he does have loads of that) and maturity and judgment.

I thought he was only 15 years old.

But your right with the rest, the way he produced the Patronus in the 3rd trial. It's a difficult spell, but his is now quite strong. When he puts his mind to it, he can accomplish anything. That is a powerful wizard.

[dorcasderr]

Yes, Harry should be only 15 in Book 5. I also think he is a powerful, but still developinmg wizard. His growth in Goblet of Fire is just a promise of what will develop in him uder even greater pressure in the future. It's that pressure that turns carbon into a diamond and will refine Harry, and his friends as well, in the future.

[Sinistra]

OK, 15, my bad. But the thing is he is still a young person and not a fully mature adult. Not that all adults are fully mature. *cough* Fudge *cough*

[Springy]

hmm... I think that Harry is probably one of the most powerful wizards in Hogwatts. For a start, his wand. The wand he got is like the same a voldermort. Ollivander said that Voldermort wand is an all mightly wand with some much power that got into the wrong hands can do extraordinary damage, which did happen. Since Harry's wand is nearly the same as his, he will be power, hence Lily being good at charms because of her wand and James being good at tranfiguration because of the wand. Remember, the wand chooses its master and that decides how a wizard will perform!!!

[Katze]

Originally posted by Springy
hmm... I think that Harry is probably one of the most powerful wizards in Hogwatts. For a start, his wand. The wand he got is like the same a voldermort. Ollivander said that Voldermort wand is an all mightly wand with some much power that got into the wrong hands can do extraordinary damage, which did happen. Since Harry's wand is nearly the same as his, he will be power, hence Lily being good at charms because of her wand and James being good at tranfiguration because of the wand. Remember, the wand chooses its master and that decides how a wizard will perform!!!

The wand only directs the magic, it doesn't say anything about the wizard's/witch's strength. The wood/core might say something about the personality/characteristics of the person, but I don't remember anything that eluded to the strength of the wizard.

When did extraordinary damage happen when V's wand fell into another's hand? When did anyone else actually have his wand besides Peter?

It would be interesting to find out the core of Dumbledore's wand, as well as Grindelwald. I wonder if they were the same as well.

[FRED ASTAIRE]

Hi everyone!!!!!!!

I am a newbie here, so don't kill me, okay? :lol:

Have a question and a statement to put to you guys.

First off; Harry Potter is suppose to be a "GREAT WIZARD" right??

Will I have not seen ANY evidence to that effect yet! Please don't get me wrong, I LOVE THE BOOKS AND MOVIE! I am so hooked, you could hurt me by pulling me off said hook, heheh.

It's just that if he was so "GREAT" why haven't we seen it?? Shouldn't he have a little some thing special (other than the scar or defeating the Dark Lord--well, come to think of it, HE did not defeat him without help, ie. his mum) other than what the other kids have?

If it was not for Hermione he would not figure out any thing!!!!! I want to see some of that "greatness". you know? I would like to see him to some magic that (he was not thought ) would shock (even Dumbledore) every one! Some thing to make them (Drago and Snape) take notice!

I feel some times that I am watching "Murder She Wrote" OR "Perry Mason" (not that I have anything against them, those are some of my favourite mysteries

I would like for him to stand on his own merit, know what I mean?

Also, I would like to see him get outstanding marks for school work then just passing. I wonder how many "O" and "A" levels he's got or do they grade by that system?


I know you guys are going to let me have it, after reading my post. :oops: :oops: :)

[JoFaye]

Originally posted by Knight
Harry does have a lot of hidden talent. The Sorting Hat recognized this in the first book. As for being a POWERFUL wizard, that's a bit more of a stretch. His good nature and honorable personality add as much if not more to his wizarding abilites than his inate power.

I think Knight pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Although, I do believe the wizards have talked amoung themselves
about very powerful wizards, which I believe Harry will prove to be.

[Potterjohn]

I think Harry will become a very powerful wizard.



:o :devil: my sis wanted to post sum

[Kneazle]

Originally posted by FRED ASTAIRE
First off; Harry Potter is suppose to be a "GREAT WIZARD" right??

Will I have not seen ANY evidence to that effect yet!
Well, the thing that convinces me of his power is his duel with Voldie in GoF. When the wands connected, he had no real advantage (... except for the phoenix song; but, come to think of it, that played a significant role, since it encourages the pure heart and strikes fear into the wicked. Ah well ...), but he still overpowered Voldemort, who is one of the greatest wizards of all time.

We still have three books in which talent or greater magic can be revealed in Harry. He does rely a lot on the help of Hermione and others, but by the time the series concludes I believe he will have grown much in independence and power.

[mrs_fawkes]

he is powerful with his friends.
his friends help him to greatness. people with friends feel better about themsevles. we saw this in GoF, when ron refused to believe that harry didn't put his name in to the goblet. harry was devestated about this. til they made up after the first task, harry seemed to be overwhelmed by everything. he had wished that if ron was still on his side then it wouldn't have been so bad.

friends make people great.

[Qeomash]

I don't think that Harry is the most powerfull wizard ever. He is, however, uncommonly powerful. Just the fact that he mastered "Expecto Partonium" (or whatever it was) in his THIRD YEAR, that is saying something.

I think that at the height of his power, Harry will be very compareable to Dumbles.

[joelaughing]

I would like to see Harry really be tested, like a friendly duel with Dumbledore or something. Harry has to be powerful to a certain extent otherwise he wouldnt be the main character in the book.
Coming back to the duel with dumbledore I think it would be cool if Dumbledore were to train Harry for a showdown with Volemort in his 7th year.

[FRED ASTAIRE]

joelaughing, that's the ticket!

That's what I am talking about! They know that Voldomort is after Harry, right? They need to take great care in teaching (or find out what he can do--not just in class, know what I mean??) him things that can help combat Voldie, because they will not always be there to protect (GoF tournament) him!

They need to train him separate from the other kids, found out his strength and weaknesses!!!

[Puffskein]

Harry seems quite powerful right now...he may have potential for more..who knows?

Yet I think we're being shown that maybe power isn't everything. Harry is learning where his strengths lie and about the power of friendship and being a good person.

I'd prefer it if he doesn't become all-powerful. Perfect people annoy me!

[Sinistra]

It's not just power, but the cunning and skill that goes with the power. Like in PS/SS when the logic puzzle would have defeated most wizards. So there needs to be brains and common sense (a commodity which seems to be sometimes lacking in the wizarding world) to be really effective with great power.

[lanifiel]

Ahh now heres the real question: Is Harry a more powerful wizard than Dumbledore, not right now, because he hasnt finished he learning, but rather will he be as powerful or more so thatn Dumbledore? Because Dumbledore is the only one who could face down Voldemort, but Harry at such a young age has hurt Voldemort, maybe not through actions of his own, but he has priven that he is smart and cunning enough to take any chance that comes up and twist it so he gets some help from it...

[Fuchsia]

I hate perfect people too. *coughs* Dawsons Creek characters who are suddenly perfect at stuff they never did before *coughs*

I think that Harry does have a great deal of power within him.
If this is what he can do when he isn't really focused what would he be able to do if he applied himself?

[joelaughing]

heres another thought on the Dumbledore training harry thing. Maybe Dumbledore is using some kind of magic to keep him alive just long enough to train Harry. Maybe he has some of the elixer of life or something.

Off subject: Back when Flamel was taking the elixer, if he was hit with the killing curse, would he have died?

[lanifiel]

Originally posted by Fuchsia
I hate perfect people too. *coughs* Dawsons Creek characters who are suddenly perfect at stuff they never did before *coughs*

I think that Harry does have a great deal of power within him.
If this is what he can do when he isn't really focused what would he be able to do if he applied himself?

Hahaha exactly, Dumbledore more than likely knows that the best bet for defeating the Death Eaters and Voldemort, rests on Harry and his friends. That is why he is given such free rein, because to make someone live by rules is to also limit their growth and ability...

[joelaughing]

so if harry finally defeats Voldemort, which he most likely will, do you think he will do it with his own power or with the help of his friends?

[lanifiel]

Friends, fully and no contest, with his friends, he might be the one with the power but Herimone is the one with the way to do it...

[Fuchsia]

You have to have your friends. Buffy the Vampire Slayer doesn't go it along either. Everytime she thought she didn't need them or it was too dangerous she learned otherwise.
There is no way Harry is going to go this alone.
Why should he? This is *everyones* battle.

[lanifiel]

Exactly, I mean you dont think Dumbledore would actully let Harry face Voldemort alone if he had a choice? For that matter neither would Herimone, Ron or anyone else, they would all be there willing and ready to go toe-to-toe with the baddest beasties in the wizarding world!

^_^

[Fuchsia]

He couldn't stop them from helping even if he wanted to.

[JoFaye]

I think Harry is very powerful. But not as powerful as Dd.
Age, experience and wisdom matter.

[joelaughing]

oh, i have no doubt that his friends will help him on the way but i think in the very end it will be a duel between harry and voldemort, no one else.

[LewsTherin]

Would Harry allow Ron or Hermione to face Voldemort? I doubt it. He would not be able to focus on protecting his friends and fighting Voldemort at the same time, and he'd be vulnerable. Also, neither Ron, nor Hermione have faced Voldemort, and Ron's clearly terrified of Voldy, which poses a problem. If Ron freezes like he did with the spiders, he will get killed. That might send Harry into a towering rage which would overwhelm Voldy, but what a way to do it. So, I doubt those two will be there. It has to be a pure fight between Harry and Voldemort. Anyway, your friends are not your source of power, but a source of support.

As for Harry's power. I would not say all-powerful, but I will say that he is most powerful wizard to ever walk the earth. I think he has a well of raw power that surpasses Dumbledore (who I believe is weaker than Voldy), and Voldemort. The Priori Incantatem bit proves that - Harry overwhelmed Voldemort by sheer weight of power and will. Consider also what he's accomplished for his age. He's mastered things most wizards struggle with, I mean, he conjured a Patronus that drove of 100 Dementors! I don't think Harry knows his potential yet, but when he does, Voldemort will not stand a chance.

Harry is special. DD knows that, and Voldy knows that (trying to kill Harry when he was a baby).

[lanifiel]

I think Harry will come to the realisation that he cannot always protect his friends and that his friends dont always need to be protected. They are tough enough and dedicated enough to help him in every way. like Fuchsia said he couldnt stop them if they were truely wanting to help...

[timmay]

is this heading towards "there is a secret power inside of you accept your detinay" sort of thing?

you are whatn you make of yourself, he is only 15? 16 ?
still got alot to lewarn if hes gonna live up to his potential, harry's sitting in as mr joe average at the moment.

[joelaughing]

i agree with LewsTherin, this is what i think will happen or what i want to happen

[Katze]

Originally posted by FRED ASTAIRE
First off; Harry Potter is suppose to be a "GREAT WIZARD" right?
I'm not sure it was actually stated in any seriousness that he was a "great wizard". If V said it, he was patronizing Harry in doing so.

I believe the actual comment was that we can expect "great things" from Harry Potter.

Greatness does not mean powerful. Greatness is often associated with Noble. Harry already is a Noble character. One main example is that he's accepting of people in all situations/backgrounds. He also never flaunts his money - especially when Ron is around.

His discretion when using his powers are going to make him great - just like Dumbledore's discretion when it comes to his powers/stature/position in society.

[joelaughing]

In Harry's third year when he drives off the 100 dementors he only could do it because he knew he could because in a way he did it before. This leads me to believe that if Harry were to believe he could do anything he actually could do anything. With some boundries of course.

[Puffskein]

I agree with Katze. Harry's achieved a lot so far and he's become more and more active rather than passive.

PS - He was rescued by Dumbledore
COS - He was rescued by Fawkes, Dumbledore's agent
POA - He saved himself after going by Dumbledore's suggestion
GOF - He was on his own (But saved by his wand being Voldemort's wand's brother)

So it follows that he will have to go it alone more in the future books.

[JoFaye]

Prof. Lupin and Hermione were both impressed with Harry's ability to
summon Prongs. They said it was very advanced magic. I'd be inclined to take their word that Harry will become very powerful, indeed.

[joelaughing]

I am confident that Harry will and already is a very powrful wizard. I think he has the potential to become the most powerful wizard in the world. The thing that bothers me thought is if J.K is setting up history to repeat itself. i can see Harry having to choose the path of Tom Riddle or a new one. Probaly the new path, or i should say almost definatly the new path.

[harryton]

well just like us, they have their own abilities, some are gifted and talented and some are not. If people try hard then the will most likel be above avarage people. I think Harry has talent, its just that he doesnt show it Yet.

[DragonslayerX]

Originally posted by Puffskein
I agree with Katze. Harry's achieved a lot so far and he's become more and more active rather than passive.

PS - He was rescued by Dumbledore
COS - He was rescued by Fawkes, Dumbledore's agent
POA - He saved himself after going by Dumbledore's suggestion
GOF - He was on his own (But saved by his wand being Voldemort's wand's brother)

So it follows that he will have to go it alone more in the future books.

yes, when it comes to the final battle, harry has been more alone. but as far as the plot, harry has been getting more and more help. he is making more friends who r willing to help in anyway possible to protect harry. in the military, it is emphasized that you can accomplish nothing without your "buds". well, i think harry will not accomplish anything if it weren't for his friends like ron, hermione, and dobby.

also, dumbledore didn't rescue harry in SS...he was saved because voldemort couldn't touch him because of his mother's love.

[SeniorFishy]

As to while in GoF and harry getting help and still barely succeding, well as Moody says that cheating has always been part of the Triwizard Tournament. Even Harry is sure that Fluer and Krum got help on the first assignment when he tips of Cedric. I'm sure the other Champions had as much help as Harry did.

I think Harry is a dangeriously powerful wizard. And my reasons are because:

Voldemort came to Godric House to kill Harry as an infant. He knew something which we dont know yet. But we can assume that Voldemort thought Harry was going to challenge his power some day and decided to get rid of him as soon as possible.

The sorting hat was intrigued by Harry's power when it was put on him. And im not just talking about it being confused to which house he was to be put in.

Harry has an amazing ability to keep cool and concentrate when needed. Like when he gets put under the (controling curse) curse he is able to break it off.

And of course when his wand locked with Voldemorts in GoF, He was able to 'win' in a matter of sense when he forced the beads to come extremely close to Voldemorts hands.

There are other instances of Harrys potential, but I believe Harry will become as powerful as DumbleyDore

[joelaughing]

i think SeniorFishy hit the nail on the head about what i am trying to say, the only thing is i believe that harry will be more powerful than dumbledore, but not all-powerful

[daniel4hp]

I too totally agree with SeniorFishy. I certainly think Harry is a very powerful wizard who's power will, someday, be equal to that of Dumbledore.

[Emma]

Originally posted by Knight
Harry does have a lot of hidden talent. The Sorting Hat recognized this in the first book. As for being a POWERFUL wizard, that's a bit more of a stretch. His good nature and honorable personality add as much if not more to his wizarding abilites than his inate power.

I second that.

[DragonslayerX]

i too think harry will become a VERY powerful wizard, but i still believe it will be becua of not so magical characteristics, which will help him develope his magical powers. for example, his ability to keep cool and concentrat, like u said, has nothing to do with magic...it is part of his personality. he is also very studeous when he needs to be, again, not a magical characteristic. also, he is very friendly, noble, and brave...all of these, r normal strengths of many people...

so, i believe harry will use THESE strengths to become one of the most powerful wizards, not a natural amount of supernatural wizarding skills.

[Ashkins]

Harry is a powerful wizard.. but he still needs training.. he himself in PoA says he needs to control his anger.. Look at what he did just because he was angry.. without a wand. Imagine if he can control that and use it at whim. I haven't seen any of the other wizards do something like that besides DD..

In order to succeed he needs his friends.. he needs the team work. Its not a one person show.

[SeniorFishy]

But Harry has been left alone for a lot of things. In SS/PS he was alone for the final part. In CoS he was alone with Riddle. In PoA he was in company for a lot of the parts but also had bits of time where he defended himself while everyone else passed out. In GoF he was completely alone against Voldemort.

(im not counting DD or fawkes helping Harry).

[Ashkins]

Yes he always does final battle alone.. although in GoF he had help from the 'ghosts' of those who he had killed last.. His father telling him what to do at the end.

I see it like this... If Harry didn't have the friends he has helping him learn... then he wouldn't and wont be prepared when he does meet Volt.

[DragonslayerX]

yes, senior, but he never could have made it to any of those parts without the help of his friends. in SS, he could never have made it to the room with the mirror without ron and hermione's help. in CoS, harry wouldnt have figured out what slytherin's monster was, and how it killed. in PoA, it was hermione who helped harry save black. and in GoF, ron, hermione, and dobby helped harry to complete each task.

(also, i think you really should count Fawkes helping harry, because without the bird's help, harry wouldn't have been able to defeat the vasilisk)

so, you see, harry is the main character, and probably will be the greatest wizard of the three, but he still will get no one without the help of his friends.

[JoFaye]

I think that Harry's good nature says more for Harry than it does about his abilities. Harry will be come a wizard as/or more powerful than Dumbledore, but he will also have Dumbledore's good heart. I think that J.K. is once again saying the choices you make say more about who you are than your family history does. Draco would not make the same choices that Harry does because he is not a white-lighter.

[SeniorFishy]

I wonder how much Ron is behind because he didn't have a working Wand in the second year. He must have slipped a little due to the lack of practice and not being able to do some of his class lectures.

[lanifiel]

I agree with fairy girl, its Harrys good heart that makes the difference, he doesnt feel the need to showoff his power or use it to make himself better off, he might be strong in power but hes big of heart...

[Myrddin]

Assuming that Harry will be pivotal in Voldermort's downfall how will he accomplish it? Surely 'Avada Kedavera' is beneath Harry? (One of the themes in GoF relating Crouch Snr)

[lanifiel]

hmmm godd topic Myrddin, maybe it should have its own thread?

[joelaughing]

i think harry is better than AK, plus i dont think it would kill voldemort

[lanifiel]

Hmmm I dunno, we've already seen that Harry wont kill from the way he treats Wormtail, when he finds out that he was responsible for his parents...

[JoFaye]

I hadn't thought of that. Maybe a combination of a lot of magic from different people will accomplish it.

[Myrddin]

I'm going to add my -2 pence worth here as well. I think Harry is extraordinarily powerful, he just doesn't know it yet. At the end of CoS we are told that Harry is getting quite good at blocking curses. I believe that's very important, he's aleady survived (with a lot of help from his Mam) a fatal curse. The Patronus Charm is also an important indicator, as is the Summoning Charm used to get the Firebolt. Thinking about it Harry, much to his surprise, was rather good with that Charm used to banish cushions. Think I'm spotting a trend here, those spells are all charms. Maybe Harry takes after Lily in some respects and is good at charms.

[jensMAN]

I think great wizards are judge by what their actions accomplish and the amount of wizdom they display.

The most powerful spells that can be preformed to accomplish one's own selfish desires are Dark Magic. However the magic that counters Dark Magic (like Harry's mother dying for him) seem to rely on decisions of the heart that test the true character of the person summoning them (the phoenix was summoned because of Harry's loyalty to Dumbledore).

What makes someone powerful is different from what makes someone great. Many characters acknowledge Voldemort's power, but do not see him as great. The books declare DD as the "greatest" wizard, but that does not make him the most powerful.

Harry is probably not the most powerful wizard, but he may prove to be the "greatest".

[JoFaye]

Very good distinction and I agree. I keep thinking about SS where Dd's card says he defeated Grindenwald. I wonder how bad Grindenwald was and how he was defeated. Maybe J.K. will provide futher details in OotP.

[lilhpwitch]

Harry has got to be really powerful or why would voldmort want to kill him? Voldmort wasn't after Harry's mum and dad he was after Harry.

[lanifiel]

Nah theres some kind of thing going on we havnt learnt which is the reason Voldemort wants to Kill Harry. Now more than ever I think its because hes lived through to many attempts and Voldemort must kill him to save face. But there is another issue going on there as well...

[DogStar87]

Originally posted by lanifiel
Hmmm I dunno, we've already seen that Harry wont kill from the way he treats Wormtail, when he finds out that he was responsible for his parents...
Harry wouldn't kill Wormtail. If he faced Voldemort, I believe he'd want to disarm him and escape, rather than kill him, but if he had no choice, I don't know what he'd do. Voldemort is *much* different from Wormtail.

[mrs_fawkes]

Harry has the potential, but he needs the training. The more he learns the better and greater he will be.

[Picko]

I find it interesting that the dementor's kiss is considered a fate worse than death. Does Voldemort deserve death? I think there has to be a reason why JK set up this kiss as the worse thing that can happen to you.

[MWPPforever]

hmm, however, the dementors wont kiss Voldemort as they are naturally Dark Creatures so he will control them! Also i think he might be immune to this death.

Even if he wasnt i think it wouldn't be a very good ending to the book- i think it could be a bit more dramatic...

[joelaughing]

i can see the dementors kissing volemort if he was to weak to protect him

[Myrddin]

To bring things back on topic a little.

Harry's definitely becoming a better wizard and I think it's because he's actually starting to think like one by the end of the GoF. I've recently been embroiled in a debate over the Maurader's Map's role in the GoF, so I re-read some of the parts in question and noticed something else that's probably worth mentioning.

I would like to draw your attention to the Summoning Charm, it plays a major part throughout the book and it can also be used to track Harry's thought processes and Wizardly development.

(a) Harry has difficulty mastering the charm, practices lots and finally gets it.
(b) He uses it 'perfectly' (Flitwick) in the tournament against the dragon.
(c) He drops the Marauder's Map during his night time wanderings, and, still thinking like a Muggle, can't quite 'reach' it to pick it up. He doesn't think to say 'Accio Map' and just to hammer the point home, Snape does.
(d) When escaping from LV, he can't quite reach the portkey in the graveyard, and so he Summons it. Hooray!!!! Harry is starting to think let's do Magic first and then try things the Muggle way. So he's begining to think like Ron does (PS/SS Devil's snare).

Now add all the hexes and jinxes he learnt at the end. Harry's [finally] going to bloom as a Wizard in the OotP.

He He. Who says two points don't make a straight line? Sorry I know some of this has been said before but I just wanted to improve the argument with point (c).

[Sinistra]

Good analysis Myrddin! That is subtle and complex but really neat. This just goes to say again that JKR must have really thought all this out thoroughly if it al can stand up after months and years of nit picking. Just think what fun we all will have with book 5!

Of course Harry matures in his study habits in GoF, too. First task, he needs help and a big hint. Second task, he tries a bit, but waits too long, and then desperately tries to work it out himself, and still needs help. Third task, he goes right in and works hard from the start and really achieves a lot. Of course, so do Hermione and Ron. I wonder if all that traiing they all did will come in handy later. (What an obvious comment--D'oh!)

[JoFaye]

Myrddin, WOW. Love the analysis. Great Points. And you're right, too,
Sinistra. Book 5 will be a joy to analyze.

[Myrddin]

Originally posted by Sinistra
Good analysis Myrddin! That is subtle and complex but really neat.

Originally posted by JoFaye
Myrddin, WOW. Love the analysis. Great Points.

Thank you, *blushes* dunno what to say.

I actually used to actively dislike the GoF, and used to dismiss it as too long and slow paced. But I've been re-reading it lately and discussing what I've found here and my opinion of it has done a complete 180. It's brilliant. There is so much depth and subtlety in that book and half the time you miss it all. [My favoutite the Summoning Charm, Mrs Weasley uses it and then Hermione (surprise, surprise) reads up on it at the Burrow - it's used all the way through and is so important but you simply don't notice.]

[JoFaye]

GoF was never one of my favorites either. I use to skip the whole World Cup Quiddich part when I re-read it. PoA is my favorite and one of the reasons is the beginning when he is staying at Diagon Alley. But, like you I find more reason to like GoF as time goes on.

[SeniorFishy]

if Harry summoned the map to him, Snape would have been able to tell what was going on. You don't just see a map flying across the room for no particular reason.

[Myrddin]

Actually SeniorFishy if you read the passage again, you'll find that Filch was first on the scene and he wasn't alerted until after the Egg had hit the bottom of the staircase and burst open. So he had time [not a lot] to summon it. [He says flicking through the passage in question.]

[Myrddin]

OK, Senior. Some quotes to clear this up.

Chapter 25 - 'and the Marauder's Map fluttered out if his hand, and slid down six stairs, where, sunk in the step to above his knee, he couldn't reach it'.....'Harry pulled out his wand and struggled to touch the Marauder's Map, to wipe it blank, but it was too far away to reach..' [Filch et al have NOT arrived at this point]

Hello? Job for a Summoning Charm?


Chapter 34 - 'but Cedric was too heavy and the Cup was out of Reach'....'"Accio!" Harry yelled'

Finally. He gets it.

[JoFaye]

Point won.

[Myrddin]

Anyhoo. Back on topic:

Potentially. I think Harry is an A++ student, but he hasn't woken up to the fact yet. Half of the reason is that he thinks like a Muggle most of the time but he's slowly realising his potential.

Allow me to use music as an example. The drummer in my old band is a fantastic musician, he just naturally knew what to play and do. The guitarist on the otherhand studied really hard and also knew what to play, but for him it was hard graft. In magical terms, Hermione is the latter, Harry the former and Ron is in between.

Now imagine you were a natural musician like my drummer, but you'd never picked up a musical instument in your life until one day you were given an opportunity to. One day you'd be really good, it would take lots of practice, you wouldn't be instantly good like someone who'd been playing from the outset (eg Ron). You'd have to spend a lot of time building up your technical skill and it would be a very frustrating experience simply because you aren't nimble enough to play what you want to. [Hand-ear coordination]. BTW I was the 'Neville' in the band I was hopeless. If you transfer this argument to Harry, lots of talent just hasn't quite got it all together yet.

There seems to be a split between the power/greatness in the thread. LV is a very powerful wizard but not a great one, in fact he's terrible. LOL [Ollivander]. Harry is a very powerful wizard and a great one. He's principled.

[JoFaye]

When you say student do you just mean his magic? He doesn't seem all that keen on some of his classes and he and Ron don't take homework very seriously. (I'm beginning to see why I got Hermione on one of those personality tests.)

[Myrddin]

I mean magicwise, look at what he's accomplished (Patronus etc) and what he might accomplish. I have a strong suspicion that Harry has come on leaps and bounds with Charms during year 4 and had the exams taken place, I'd wager 37 Galleons, 15 Sickles and 13 knuts that he would have done rather well. The thing with Harry is this, if a given teacher takes a positive interest in him, he does better in the subject, and a lot better at that. This is true of (almost) every student/teacher relationship. Plus, Harry gets a lot of outside tutition from DD. Who cares about potions anyway, I'm only interested in silly wand waving. :)

[My private theory is that Harry has a hitherto supressed flair for charm work, read the Charms lessons in GoF to see what I mean]

In short what I am trying to say is this: Harry is potentially one of those naturals who gets good grades without really trying and not doing their homework, but he doesn't know this yet.

[JoFaye]

I like wand waving and I would fling my wand around like Ron trying to do Wingardium Leviosa. But potions are kind of sexy. I love that speech Snape makes the first day of class. I agree about Harry's magical ability and I find the charm point very interesting as Olivander pointed out that Harry's mother's wand was very good for charm work. I never really thought about the difference between charms, magic and curses, but you make a good point. I just thought of it all as magic. Maybe I'll go back through #4 and look for that.

[joelaughing]

Myrddin! i like your thought process, i Never noticed the whole harry realizing to use magic thing with the summuning charm and i have read GOF like 10 times because it is my favorite book. Yeah im convinced that if harry were to realize his potential and study more he WILL be the greatest wizard.

[daniel4hp]

Yes, I totally agree with Myrddin! Well thought out and well said.

[Myrddin]

Originally posted by JoFaye
I like wand waving and I would fling my wand around like Ron trying to do Wingardium Leviosa. But potions are kind of sexy. I love that speech Snape makes the first day of class.

Potions are important too. But they're never going to be Harry's forte unless he either resolves his issues with Snape or they get a different teacher. I too adore that speech, it's really a magnificent opening statement don't you think? Right then, I'm all thought out.

[hott_guy_1989]

I think Harry or any wizard for that matter is all-powerful. What I am trying to say is that it is not having a powerful wand or powerful magic inside it is the strength you put into it. The only thing that made Voldermort and Dumbldore powerful is they believed they could do it and praticed and then when it came down to it, instead of just casting the spell and stuff they foucesed all there strength to it. I think that if everybody in HP reached there full power it would all be the same. It is just how much you believe in yourself and you believing that you can make it stronger. Just sort of rest on this and tell me what you think.

[Mave]

i think one day, that harry will be the most powerful wizard ever.

[cherion_lee]

I believe Harry will one day match Voldermort's power and he will be the only one powerful enough to defeat Voldermort. But of course Harry will always have his friends to help him too. One's power is measurable not only from personaly abilities but from teamwork too.

[joelaughing]

well harrry must have something about him that is powerful, why else would voldemort want him dead? I do agree his friends are important but he didnt have friends then and voldemort knew something about him and wanted him dead for it. The only reasons i can see him targeting harry for is if he is meant to be a powerful wizard or like if he was the heir of slytherin or something and Voldemort wanted to be the only one.

[Sinistra]

There are many different facets to magic. There is wand waving (charms and transfiguration) there is the alchemical side of it (herbology and potions) there is the divinatory side (Arithmancy, runes and divination--yes, all are forms of divination), and then there is the "natural" side (magical creatures and animagi). So far the charms vs. potions seems to be the biggest "rivalry. However, the other two "classes" may become more important. Hagrid is often overlooked, but he is a master at magical creatures. He has gotten so far into it, that he's bored with the average stuff, and is on to breeding his own new creatures. That's quite an accomplishment.

So anyhow (meandering back to the topic), Harry seems to have talents in all those areas, with perhaps potions and Herbology the weakest. Partly because of Snape, but I think also because he just isn't into that stuff. But maybe also because that seems to be one of the main ways Voldemort accomplished what he did. That "spell" Wormtail used was some sort of a complicated potion, No wand-waving there. Maybe also with some spoken charm (which I absolutely love!!!!). But it was mainly a potion,and I imagine most of his transformations were accomplished through potions.

And hott_guy_99 is right. Belief is a big factor in powerful magic. You have to know it will work for you. That's why those evil wizards seem to be real egotists, because that massive self-confidence helps translate to powerful wizardry.

[lanifiel]

I think Harry is powerful because he has no concept of what he can and cannot do. He has lived without magical guidance and thus doesnt know there are any real limits to his power. Ron knows because hes lived in the magical family. Herimone has limited herself by reading what is and is not possible in books, never thinking to put them down and try something else :D

[joelaughing]

yeah, i think Ianifiel is right, harry has no idea what is possible and what is not. If noboby told him that he couldnt do something then he would have no reason to think he cant do anything. If he doesnt know what is possible he will probably be able to achieve anything he tries.
Am i making any sense?

[girl_wizardry]

Harry would no doubt, be the most powerful wizard ever one day. But...will he be more powerful than Dumbledore? hmmm....

[Sinistra]

Eventually, after he is 100+ Harry will be more powerful than Dumbledore. But it will take time, for sure. But after he defeats Voldemort he will probably be more powerful that 90%+ of all the rest of the wizards.

[revz]

nice point there, lanifiel.

Harry's purity might be his greatest strenght.... allowing him to surpass the other wizards...

[sparkle]

U lot have probably already mentioned it but is anyone else really impressed at how well Harry can fight off the Imperius Curse, i mean it only took him 4 or 5 attempts when imposter Moody did it, and when he face Voldie. Look how long it took both the Crouches to attempt to throw off the curse as well, i think that really shows alot of will power.

[Ashkins]

Yes sparkle I noticed that as well. and it wasn't just against the professor he was able to fight it off of Vold himself. (took a time a two but he did it)

[Sinistra]

Harry's ability to fight off the Imperius Curse and his ability to master a Patronus are two examples of just how powerful a wizard Harry is. It seems, if he puts his mind to it, he can do it.

[revz]

the patronus alone is impressive enough.... having to master it when fully grown wizards have difficulty in producing even only one.... Harry, like DD, can drive off a whole group of dementors, not just one... so that makes him very powerful for his age indeed....

[joelaughing]

THE IMPERIUS CURSE! I cant believe we never thought of that! Didnt it only take harry one try to fend off v's? I am convinced now that harry will be very powerful indeed. But that just screws up my whole, if he has no idea whats possible he can do it thing. In DADA harry watched everyone else screw up royally but he still beat it.

[nimbus2006]

this is my favorite thread, so im posting on it to move it back to page 1. :p

[lanifiel]

Its called a 'bump' :)

I'll start off again by saying he is as powerful as he needs to be in any situation, but his strength comes from his humility and knowledge that he does not everything about the world he lives in...

[Phoenix_Fawkes]

He is will be as powerful or more than Dumbledore I think I dono Hes very resourcefull and talented admirble couragous ect hes got my vote for all powerfull not till book 6 or 7 though like ppl have been sayin.

[Camo]

Yeah, i also believe that Harry is a very powerful wizard who is naturally talented like his father. I would like to see where he is in his grade, like what rank he is because Hermione is Dux, Harry should be up there somewhere.

[Marina]

I'm not quite certain about Harry being a 'all powerful wizard'. Yes, he does manage a lot of things (like getting the philosopher's stone-though with a bit of help from Ron and Hermione), but he is still human....:typing:

[Marina]

Er...hope I didn't offend anyone :( (we should have a biting-nails-in-fear emoticon).

[Alorra Spinnet]

Originally posted by Camo
Yeah, i also believe that Harry is a very powerful wizard who is naturally talented like his father. I would like to see where he is in his grade, like what rank he is because Hermione is Dux, Harry should be up there somewhere.

I've wondered about Harry's grades too. It usually states that he passed with good marks. He mentions to Dobby that he "isn't even tops in his year, that's Hermione" but, he doesn't mention how well he does do.If Hermione is tops in the year is Harry close to the top? Rita Skeeter's article claiming he is one of the top students in the school? ( not that she's much to go by. :rasp: )

[hermeeownninny]

It is my belief that Harry is not only powerful, but the most powerful wizard ever, more so than Dumbledore and Voldemort. In book 3, when Harry tells Dumbledore about Trelawney's prediction, Dumbledore says it brings her total of real predictions up to two. If that is her second, what was her first? I believe that her first prediction was that Harry will be the most powerful wizard ever. Sort of like the prophecy that foretold the coming of Jesus. That would explain why James & Lily had to go into hiding, and why Voldemort didn't want to kill Lily. He was never after Lily and James. He was after Harry all the time. James tells Lily to take Harry and run- he knew why Voldie was really there. Voldemort wanted to eliminate Harry while he was still a baby, seemingly defenseless. Other people know about Harry's abilities too- Ollivander, Dumbledore, even Ron and Hermione seem to know what Harry's capable of; it seems Harry is the only one who has not yet caught on. When Harry is angry (like the inflation of Aunt Marge), you can feel magic coming from him, the same as with Dumbledore. Harry can resist the Imperius Curse, meaning he's got a strong character. Harry can do the Patronus charm, a spell even Hermione admits she can't do. Harry shows his amazing powers when he's angry, and he will definitely need that in the end. Futhermore, Dumbledore tells Harry in book 1 that he can't tell him why Voldemort wanted to kill him, and when he is ready, he will know. Wouldn't telling an 11 year old boy that he is the most powerful wizard ever inflate his head a bit? Or confuse the heck out of him. . finding out he was the "boy who lived" was overwhelming enough. Maybe Harry is not all-powerful right now, but by the time he is 17 and is ready to kill Voldemort, he will be.

[Picko]

Well I think that it is important that Harry has no idea what his limitation might be. That said the only limitation we know of is that you can't bring the dead back to life. If that is the only true limitation (and I suspect it will be) then a wizards power relates only to how much time and effort they are willing to put into it.

The Magic in HP is very much like the Force in SW. There are no real limitations to it only the person who practices it. If Harry learns that there are no limitations on his magical ability I think we'll see him become real powerful really, really quick.

[gillyweed_sensation]

I agree, I think magic is something that you can be good at if you dedicate yourself to it. Maybe Harry will realise his potential after reflecting on his ability to do the patronus and fight the imperius curse, and resign himself this year to practice fighting the dark arts more. Maybe take extra lessons with the new DADA teacher, incase Voldemort attacks again.

[joelaughing]

I think there are a couple different types of "power" how much of these do you think Harry, Dumbledore, and Voldermort have?
1. Pure raw power
2. Intelligance
3. Book smart intelligance
4. Overall power

If you guys can think of any others feel free.

[Picko]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Harry get extra classes from various people this year in an attempt to have him a bit stronger incase Voldemort gets him again. I wouldn't be surprised if Harry absolutely aces the O.W.L's, after all his abilities have always been far more remarkable than ordinary.

[joelaughing]

I dont think Harry can ace his owls without studying. But I would also like to see Harry take some extra classes.

[nimbus2006]

I believe that what makes a wizard powerful is his will-power. Harry seems to be able to do anything he puts his mind to, and that is because he has a very strong will. -holding off quirrell in SS/PS.. -mustering all of his strength to finish off voldy in CoS even though he was poisoned.. -never giving up on the patronus and finally conquring it.. -throwing off voldemort's and crouch Jr.'s imperius curses.. -PROVING HIS POWER AGAINST VOLDEMORT DURING PRIORI INCANTATEM.
This last example is why i believe harry is a very powerful wizard. If voldemort was one of if not the most powerful wizard of his time, why was harry able to force the "Beads" back into voldemorts wand? You would think that if Voldemort had a stronger will than harry, he would be able to push the beads back towards harry and finish him off?

No, he cannot beat harry's purity of heart, greatness, and will-power. He may have more knowledge of the wizarding world and of darks arts and of spells altogether, but when harry learns what he needs to know and comes into his full potential... Voldemort is going to be very hard pressed indeed.

[JoFaye]

I think Harry is more powerful than the average wizard, because he was able to throw off the Imperius (?) spell the first or second time Barty Crouch, Jr. (Mad Eye) put it on him. That spell could not be thrown off for a long time by Crouch Sr., or Junior, or the real Mad Eye Moody. It couldn't be easy to throw off, yet Harry did it almost immediately.

[damcdono]

This may have been mentioned, but I think the real basis for magical power is will power, A wand and a saying help focus a persons will on doing what their mind wills to happen....If that is the basis for magical power than I think Harry is an extremely powerful wizard, all-powerful wizard, I don't think that exists...but take Voldie's temptation of Harry at the end of book 1, even with the prospect of having his parents back Harry forces himself to do good......So I think it is his tremendous will that makes him strong...the Patronus in Book 3 was another good example!

[nimbus2006]

i agree 100000% damcdono :p

[HagridsGrandmother]

u know i honestly dont think that harry is the most powerfulest i think that like if ron wanted to he could bust out some mad skills and own harry along with the rest of the women! especially draco....hes a chicken s%@* becuz the fact that he cries everytime harry gets something or does something better and i dont think harry should get all that credit just becuz he survived voldys little attack....ron owns em all!! haha laterz;) ;) ;)

[Bilbo]

Harry is not all powerful.

However, he is an above average wizard. He speaks parseltongue, is an excellent Quidditch player, shows bavery and is quick witted. He also fights the Imperius curse with a strong will.

[hippogryph]

Yes Harry is Powerful.

He is very brave. Brave enough to face down Voldemort more than once and win. You may argue that even Neville was brave when he tried to stop Ron, Harry and Hermione in the first book, but Neville ended up on his face in a full body lock, so bravery is not enough. Harry must have something more than your normal wizard to survive.

I think that it is wrong to assume that his poor grades reflect a poor ability to perform magic. I see that Harry's attitudes and pride get in the way alot at school. For example, can Harry make good potions? Our first impulse is no, but since Snape is so against Harry, I think that we may never learn how good Harry could be at potions. He isn't gonna waste his time trying to suck up to snape enough to get a good grade.

As for Herbology and Divination, Harry rarely seems to pay attention in class. He spends most of his time joking with Ron. The only class were Harry pays attention is Defense against the Dark Arts, and he always does well in it. Whether it is resisting the imperious curse with Moody, or passing the obstacle course with Lupin, he does well because he thinks that it is important.

I think that being raised by muggles gives Harry a rather different view of magic than most of the other students. He was taught that magic was frivolous and abnormal. I think that Harry doesn't like to play with magic. Harry wants to use magic to achieve his ends. This seriousness in itself would be enough for the sorting hat to suggest that he go to Slytherin house. He wants to use magic for the power, not just to make nice charms or to play exploding snap.

The sorting hat said that he had a wide variety of talents. Olivander said that his wand was a powerful wand. Harry was able to push the beads back into Voldemort's wand, and Harry can make an amazingly strong petronis.

Everything points to Harry having amazing potential as a wizard if only he can live long enough.

[arabella_black]

I believe he is very powerful. 1st of all his will power. 2nd his ability to pick up spells quickly and when he copletes them they are very powerful. 3rd throw off the imperius curse. 4th his eyes. we are not sure what so great about them but every1 goes on just how like his mums they look. jk said there is importance in this. 5th parselmouth. 6th even Dumbledore said after his duel with voldy that he had lived up to expectations.

And my fav part i think he is pyscic. I think this because of his dreams in the fourth book and his dream in the 3rd book about the silver deer which was b4 he knewhis father was a animagus or what his patronus could lok like. Also he could remember things from the attack which was when he was only one yr. I dont mean when the dementors were aroud but he could remb a greenlight.

Also Harry is very good at magic without wand (even though it only shows through when he is scared or angry he could learn to control it. This is probably also connected to his eyes)

[TheLostWeasley]

ok i think that harry is very powerful, i mean
1. to survive voldys attack (as a baby)
2. to get that patronus to protect him (i doubt anyone else in hogwarts could have done that)
3. hes not afraid of voldemort and has defeated him numerous times now
4. the triwizard tourney i definately think he did not need his firebolt to get past the hungarian horntail (even though it was a good plan) i think he could have defeated/killed it much faster and easier than anyone else could TRY to

[Picko]

4. the triwizard tourney i definately think he did not need his firebolt to get past the hungarian horntail (even though it was a good plan) i think he could have defeated/killed it much faster and easier than anyone else could TRY to

Don't get too ahead of yourself yet. Harry isn't powerful enough to kill a dragon, at least not yet. Remember how many wizards it took just to stun the dragons in GoF?

[nfh_aftran]

he's not all powerful. But maybe when he gets older, he'll probably be as powerful as Dumbledore.

[joelaughing]

Okay I want to bump this up again because I like all of the ideas everyone here can come up with and this topic really intrigues me.
As said before I dont think Harry will be able to KILL a dragon. I wonder if Harry will come into his own more in book 5 and really show us what he can do.

[Riomaran]

I highly doubt that Harry is all-powerful, because he's only fifteen. Fifteen-year-old boys get acne, right? So he probably has blemishes to go with his messy hair... And all-powerful wizard would certainly be able to cure acne, so... :eyebrows:

But truly, he's too young to be all-powerful yet, even if he will be someday. Which I highly doubt, and hope against, because even (if* he's Griffindor's heir, even *if* he defeats Voldemort, he doesn't necessarily have to be all-powerful. Just clever, resourceful and brave. It'd be a shame to have him have a happy ending due to heredity...

[miri]

Lots of ppl argue he could be Godric's heir without being his descendant, as Godric would feel the qualities he posess are more important. In this light, an argument i'm not sure I quite get (if Godrics' line died out, he would be happy for Harry to take over?), I'd be happy for him to be the Griffindor heir.

I reckon Harry is very powerful. Whether he will reach DD's level - remember the years of experience and wisdom he has behind him too - remains to be seen. Also, DD will have a far greater knowledge of spells, charms etc.

I dont think Harry doesnt apply himself in lessons, so much as wondering when the next attempt on his life will be! Or what danger he's up against. Details like these. I think he still has a lot of way to go before he's knowledgable enough to defeat Voldy, and needs to practice and perfect a lot of techniques. Remember his first attempts at the patronus? enough to make the Slytherins fall over, not enough to really materialise.

I do agree with the suggestions he has some sort of 2nd sight. His dreams, about the silver deer and the more or less blow-by-blow Voldy one would indicate this. Also, he's pretty quick on quite a few occasions. I do think that if he has this ability, it isnt refined. It could be a very weak power, compared to say his Transfiguration abilities. Remember Divination though, when he decided he could just about make out a living hipogrif? And was right? He wanted it to happen, thought the eagerness of Prof Trelawney for bloody images were sickening but... i think he actually DID see it. He probably has no more faith in the class than Hermione, so didnt see it as clearly as he could have done but...

Also -his scar burning when he's in danger - nice warning if it didnt come with a crippling headache! I want to know if Voldy still does that to him.

[Animagi Girl]

I think Harry is really powerful. I agree with Miri.

[RonFan24]

I agree Harry is very powerful, but I think he is more so than anyone knows or expects. And no, Harry doesn't really take his lessons serious. It could be to undercut his fame, or maybe he's just lazy. lol :)

[joelaughing]

I think Harry tries in his classes, just not as much as Hermione. But he really should start learning more handy spells.

[Picko]

I think that Harry needs motivation in order to be powerful, he isn't a self-motivator like Hermione. If given the chance Harry would do absolutely nothing to improve his magical power. That said is the threat of the dark lord enough to get Harry to want to be powerful?

[Lauradriel]

I think Harry has more power than he has yet shown. I know Dumbldore said it was his mother's love that protected him from Voldemort, but I think there's more to it. I think Harry was born with gifts and strengths that he is not aware of. Dumbledore perhaps knows what he is capable of, but maybe even he will be surprised by what Harry can accomplish. Since Harry grew up in a muggle household (and a very restrictive, unloving one at that) I know he has much to learn. If he has accomplished so much already, with so little knowledge of the wizarding world, imagine what he will be able to do when he is fully trained!!

[Picko]

Lauradriel, I've thought for a long time that there was more to Harry's survival than his mothers sacrifice because I've always wondered why the same sort of events haven't occured before.

[Fuchsia]

I don't know if he does have any special gifts other than what he already has. Isn't Harry supposed to be able to stand on his own in the future books? His mothers love was like the aid he recieved from Dumbledore, etc. Now Harry is on his own. Why just give him special gifts then? He's not a super hero. I don't want to read about someone who can see through walls or something fighting Voldie but a boy fighting the odds using his wits.

[MadMagic]

I agree with the point Fuchsia made. I don't think it would be nearly as fun to read if Harry was some super being with all kinds of strange powers. It is fun becasue he is normal (or as normal a a wizard can be). He has survived so far by being brave and also with the help of his friends. I think his bravery and the great friendships that he has is what is finally going to help him win.

[Andora]

I agree with people here in that I think Harry has the talent and the potential to become a really powerful wizard. Already he's demonstrated that he's able to complete very difficult spells just with a force of mind. He also does a lot of extra things that most other kids in his classes don't do, and I think it will teach him discipline and he'll probably an incredibly fast learner later on in the series. Already he shows a lot of talent for things.

He also shows a lot of integrity and I think that's going to help bring down Voldemort. Since Harry doesn't believe in killing, which we did see with Wormtail, maybe something like Harry will spare Voldemort in the end, and Voldemort will do something nasty back, but since he would have been in Harry's life-debt than maybe it'll bounce back and finally just kill him off, although it rings a little too much of the very beginning of the series, I think JKR said something about wizard bonding being very key and essential.

Someone else was mentioning Flamel and the Elixir of Life, and just to quickly answer that I think that it really just prolonged natural life and if he was hit by lightning he would still die. I don't think it made people invincible or anything.

[lanifiel]

I dont think its a matter of power, rather it is luck and well timed addition to his arsenal that has let him triumph over evil at every turn...

[Andora]

I definitely disagree, that he must have a really great force of mind to be able to do some of the things that he's done. He basically can will himself to do things that a lot of people were never able to do, like fight off the impervius curse, turn the bead back towards Voldemort during Priori Incantatem. And I think that Harry does try, he tries to learn and do things that will help him out, like Expecto Patronus, and all the practicing he did for the TriWizard Tournament.

Granted he isn't as self motivated as Hermione is in school, but magic isn't all about books and learning, I think it has a lot to do with heart and the want, and I think Harry is able to make himself want things badly enough most of the time.

[Fuchsia]

On the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Buffy lived because she got help from her friends while the other slayers acted alone and died young.
I definitly think Harry is the same as Buffy. He knows it is okay to get help.

Harry doesn't have to be super strong in any one area. It might be better to have a toe in everything than one foot in one thing.
Does that make any sense?

[JoFaye]

Of course it makes sense. And I agree if Harry was so powerful that he vanquished Voldemort without any degree of will, determination, and effort; it wouldn't make a very good story. His greatness will be found inside his heart and strengthened by the love of his friends.

[Fuchsia]

Thanks JoFaye :)

Greatness doesn't mean anything unless you have someone to share it with.
And the wizarding world wouldn't be better off if one person single handedly destroyed Voldie. What if Harry died? They'd be right back where they started.
They need to work together to get this solved.

These struggles don't really have anything to do with power anyhow.
It has even been said I think that Voldie's greatest strength was in convincing others.
Voldie rose to power with followers and his cleverness.
Harry will have to the same way.

[joelaughing]

I guess that is kinda like when Dumbledore said something like we are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided.

[miri]

To be honest, I cant see half the wizarding world or so marching behind Harry, rising up against Voldy. I can see the trio, DD and the rest of the old crowd, and probably an extra Weasley or so, maybe 20 miscellanious Hogwarts students (Neville! Neville! And I cant see Cho not being there), and possibly up to 50 other grown-ups (ie, Cedric's parents). I reckon the group will be small enough for each person's merits to shine, for everyone to know each other and trust each other and i reckon it really will be a battle fought against incredible odds. Fought, and won. But not without losses.

[Fuchsia]

I don't see half the wizarding world behind Harry but there has to be more than just the old crowd and his friends.
The wizarding world would fall to pieces if they were *all* dunderheads.

Good call on the losses.

[aiko amaya]

I think Harry has the potential to being a very powerful wizard, that is proved by the triwizarding tournament, and each time he has face Voldermort, and plus he shows such bravery, as well as being able to produce a patronus (very advanced magic) he definetly has alot of power, maybe a futur dumbledore or something cuz he could defeat Voldie Just like dumble dore defeated that other guy gilwald or something

[pegoheart144]

Originally posted by joelaughing (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=62852#post62852))
so if harry finally defeats Voldemort, which he most likely will, do you think he will do it with his own power or with the help of his friends?
Harry will ultimately put the final nail in Voldemort's coffin, but his friends will help him get to that point.

I'm waiting to find out what kind of power Harry has inherited from his mother. My feeling is it's connected to his eyes and everyone mentions that he has his mother's eyes.

[miri]

Originally posted by Fuchsia (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=200295#post200295))
I don't see half the wizarding world behind Harry but there has to be more than just the old crowd and his friends.
The wizarding world would fall to pieces if they were *all* dunderheads.

Good call on the losses.


I dont think it will be a case of most of the wizarding world being dunderheads; more that quite simply, when is Harry going to find the time to canvas? Especially when the official line is Voldermort is dead. He's going to be taking his O.W.L.S. in book 5; almost definitely doing extra advanced stuff, possibly under DD's personal supervision; we've been warned hormones are going to play up; we know at least one important person's going to die... this is without whatever plot-twists/ mortal danger situations JKR's gonna put him through/ in, and with nothing pertaining to anything that could BE TOotP!

I know he'll have another 2 books to gather support, and I cant see Fudge sticking to the story that Voldy's still out of commission for all of them (I expect something in TOotP's going to force him to wake up and smell the coffee), but...

Do you see my point?

I know that maybe *the old gang* can help raise awareness but how many people will be willing to put their lives and complete faith in a boy still at/ just finishing school, based on the say-so of a bunch of eccentric olds? I know the whole Boy Who Lived thing will help a bit but I reckon a lot of people would dismiss *the old gang* as just that - a group of wizards and witches who were important in the past and are now redundant coz the world's happy happy. And Rita provided a very good reason to ignore Harry too - the guy sees things!

Obviously, at some point they'll HAVE to notice that Voldy's back, but will they really seek out people they ridiculed, apologise, and ask to be trained for battle? Maybe a FEW will... but will they ever be able to gain that level of trust?

Mabe after reading OotP my viewpoint will change, but I do reckon that the active good side will be kinda diddy compared to all the DEs.

[joelaughing]

I think that the good side will prove to be very formidable. They have a lot of talented witches and wizards. Plus if the giants join them they count for a lot. I also think that Harry is very powerful, not ALL powerfull but he can help out the good side a lot.

[Fuchsia]

Sometimes when people are desperate they can suck it up.
They can't fool themselves into thinking things will be easy with Voldie this time.

And Harry will be going to new areas of the wizarding world we know. He *could* find time to canvas there.

I'm not saying it will happen just that it is possible.

But come on guys with a little help from my friends they can make it!

[joelaughing]

It won't be easy for them at all. Both sides are in for a long fight. I just think that the good side is evenly matched.

[HPviolinist85]

I think Harry is deffinitely much more powerfull than Voldemort and doesn't know it yet. He was able to beat Voldemort when they were doing battle at the end of GoF. He is able to throw off the imperius curse even when the supposed most powerfull wizard in the last century puts it on him. And he is only fourteen years old!

[pegoheart144]

I do believe that Harry will eventually be as powerful as Dumbledore, perhaps moreso. Perhaps he is even showing development similar to Dumbledore's when he was young.

[Picko]

I think Harry is deffinitely much more powerfull than Voldemort and doesn't know it yet. He was able to beat Voldemort when they were doing battle at the end of GoF. He is able to throw off the imperius curse even when the supposed most powerfull wizard in the last century puts it on him. And he is only fourteen years old!

Well Harry did get away on a technicality, give Voldemort a different wand and it's "Bye, Bye Harry". But I agree that his ability to resist the Imperius curse foreshadows how powerful he will become, not even great wizards like Barty Crouch could do this regularly.

[miri]

Picko, he had the advantage in the wand duel with Voldy coz of the phoenix music, but facing down the darkest wizard of the time isnt something to be scoffed at!

[Bilbo]

Originally posted by miri (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=202614#post202614))
but facing down the darkest wizard of the time isnt something to be scoffed at!


No it isn't. However, Harry only escaped because of luck. Is Harry excellent at Quidditch? Yes. Can he perform some complicated magic and think quickly? Yes. However, for the most part, Harry is an average wizard in training. As he grows older, as Picko wrote, he will become a powerful wizard. For right now, he is just an average wizard who does some extraordinary feats.

The above statement assumes Harry will survive.

[Fuchsia]

Harry is a different sort of powerful than Dumbledore.
He isn't concerned with others so much either while Dumbledore is.
Does he have a vision of the "big picture?" No.
He's normal and that is what is great about him. Dumbledore wanted him to be normal too. Voldemort was never normal.

[Bilbo]

Voldemort wasn't normal per se. However, he had every opportunity that Harry did. The problem is that Tom Riddle couldn't cope with his surroundings. Instead of trying to make his situation better, he plotted revenge.

[Fuchsia]

That's a good point about Tom. He didn't make things any easier for himself with such a bad attitude.
Plus the delusions of grandeur made him quite odd.

[MadMagic]

I think Harry has the potential to be a great wizard. And Tom's dilusions of grandure did ruin him. He had the whole Percy quest for power thing going on.

[Fuchsia]

Wanting too much can lead people to bad judgement. Harry is pretty cool with just being Harry power or not.

[MadMagic]

Yeah, I think Harry is content to just be a normal Wizard. But people are really eager for him to be the most powerful wizard ever...or at least one of them.

[Fuchsia]

It would be comforting for them to have someone else to put the trouble on.

[MadMagic]

But Harry is only a kid. People shouldn't rely on him to save them all.

[Fuchsia]

But they still lay all of those enormous expectations on him. There are those like Dumbledore and Lupin who want to help but he is looked on as a hero for the house-elves and Colin Creevey's. They grew up hearing about how wonderful Harry is. They will expect him to be wonderful again.
The poor kid.

[MadMagic]

I know. People are just setting him up to fail them. That is a terrible situation to be in. But there are so many people around him to help him, that he probably will live up to expectations in the end.

[Guardian Angel]

I see Harry as a potential powerfull wizard. If he would duel Draco he would win. Draco probably knows more spells for hexing than Harry does, but Harry could use the environment. He is ingenious. Draco is not. And Harry will become more and more influential with ages.

[Fuchsia]

He just needs to stick by what is important to him and not lose his head.
He's been good at that so far.

[MadMagic]

Harry is shockingly level headed. And I don't really see it changing, although I do hope that it doesn't change with the horrible death that should effect him in his 5th year. Sometimes I think he tends to keep things in, maybe he should start letting them out more.

[Fuchsia]

He is never allowed to just let it all out is he? The Dursleys won't let him and he has to concentrate on classes when he's in school.
The poor kid. Something has to give.

[MadMagic]

He just needs to run around Hogwarts screaming all the time. Then maybe the stories about him being crazy would be warranted.

[Fuchsia]

He shouldn't have to have a big Ned Flanders outburst in the middle of the school.

[pegoheart144]

Originally posted by Fuchsia (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=205483#post205483))
He is never allowed to just let it all out is he? The Dursleys won't let him and he has to concentrate on classes when he's in school.
The poor kid. Something has to give.
That's true. He was told not to ask questions and had to bottle in his emotions. That kind of conditioning does not disappear overnight.

He also is unusually self-reliant for a boy his age. He's had to take care of himself from the time he was very small. He's not used to having someone care about him.

[Picko]

I'm thinking that Harry could be awfully close to a nervous breakdown, just have a look at him at the end of GoF. So much pressure and stress but nobody to really let it all out to. He is so independent that he refuses to share his life with anyone, which at times is a very good thing but at other times it's a bad decision.

[Fuchsia]

If he does have a breakdown would it effect any unforseen powers he has? Like Carrie?

[Ava]

That would be terrible. Do you mean, he'll start cursing everyone in sight?:no: He should really open up more to Hermione and Ron.

[lanifiel]

Thats why I'm saying that he might accidently kill off one of the good guys. Can you imagine teh soul anguish he would have to face then!?

[Fuchsia]

The poor kid. He's going to go Carrie on the whole school.

[Picko]

Well we've seen the type of uncontrolled magic he was able to produce when Aunt Marge made him angry. It seems to occur whenever he gets very emotional. If he has a nervous breakdown I'd be getting out of there :D

[miri]

If you saw the sequel to Carrie... the actual science was all wrong (both girls inheritted the telekenisis from their shared father, on their Y chromosome, apparently) but there... little sis refuses to accept she can make stuff happen with her mind til she kills everyone in far more varied ways than big sis did... to be fair she did think the guy who loved her had been using her for scoring points in a game her best friend had killed herself over, and the people who were being nice to her were laughing about it but...

I dont know if I see Harry going mad. He does bottle stuff up an awful lot, and of course, we've never seen him deal with a death before now but he's also got his god-father who he can confide in back in his life; and he even opened up to Lupin... I think he realises these 2 are the closest people he has to parents.

Also, I dont think DD or the Order will pin everything on him. I think they will probably feel he has a right to know what's going on, and possibly give him extra training in order to help him develop those wonderful powers, but I think the attitude will be more MIB-ish than anything - "you're part of the team. You're special, yeah, but you're the most inexperienced one here. We are your role models, not the other way round." And I think that will be good for him

[Bilbo]

I don't think he'll go "Carrie" on the school. Harry is really good with handling the bad situations. He missed Ron and lost his temper in a few places, but he still coped.

He may, however, go "Carrie" on Voldemort.

[Picko]

I dont know if I see Harry going mad. He does bottle stuff up an awful lot, and of course, we've never seen him deal with a death before

He didn't handle Cedric's death very well. I wonder how he'll handle the death of his special "fan".

[She's Crafty]

I agree with all those who said Harry is not all-powerful, but he certainly has a good degree of power that is beyond most of his peers (maybe even Hermione).

Going back to the Voldemort transferring powers to him - i think there will be consequences to this later in the books. He's a powerful evil wizard - there's bound to be consequences and i think Parseltongue is the least of them.

All IMHO of course! :)

[go_anna40]

Well, I say Harry Potter is very powerful, "defeating" Voldermort various times, being talented at Quidditch etc.
He even has uncontrolable power.

But I wouldn't say that he is the most powerful wizard- that's taking it too far.

[Weatherby]

That's possible She's Crafty.
Harry might find some defects from Voldemort in the future. At least more things to make the wizarding world suspicious of him again.
Perhaps Ginny as well.

[miri]

We know it hasnt affected him personality-wise so I dont see how extra powers and tallents can be defects...

[joelaughing]

I dont like the idea that Harry got all of his extra talents from Voldemort. I would like to think that he did a lot on his own.

[i wish i knew]

Sorry if someone has posted this, I haven't read all 7 pages but:

In GoF pge 699
...."You have shown bravery equal to those who died fighting Voldermort at the height of his powers. You have shouldered a grown wizard's burden and found yourself equal to it-......." (Dumbledore talking to HArry after the 3rd task)

Basically, he survived Voldermort when many full grown wizards died facing him, and Harry is only a 4th year. He survived Voldermort whe he was only a baby (although he had a bit of helpp from his mother). He defeated Tom riddle (Voldermort again), and a basilisk when he was only a 2nd year. He defeated Professor Quirrel(Voldermort too) when he was a 1st year. In his 3rd year he overcame the dementors, Lupin said that many adult wizards can't go up against even 1 of them, and Harry had a patronous that went against alot more than 1!

Not all of these were "powers from Voldermort". Voldermort had to torture people to get his way and all that. Harry isn't "evil". Do you think that if Tom Riddle was in Harry's place in PoA (in the shreiking shack) he would havve given Lupin and Sirius the chance to explain themselves? (mostlikely not). Harry has alot of ailities on his own, things voldermort would never have.Important things, like friendship and bravery. Voldermort doesn;;t need either. He doesn't have to be brave! The death eaters all protect him! I think that Harry is a very strong wizard.

[dark_dreamer44]

I think it's the Choices that Harry makes which determine how "poweful" he is. He COULD have let Lupin and Sirius kill Wormtail who, in all honesty, deserved it. But he didn't. And all those times in GoF when he had to chance to win, or even sabatoge another persons winning, he put other people first.
I'd like to see the septology (a word completely stolen, my mistake) end with Harry dueling with Voldemort, but all of his [Harry's] friends, and supporters coming to help finish him off.

[i wish i knew]

That is somthing Harry has that Voldermort never will! A few things actually. Standing up to what is right,understanding(not just judging all by one person), and friends, not folowers or people who you are with to make you stronger, just plain old friends! He has these things on his own not from Voldermort! He has the ability of parselmouth (I know I speltthat wrong!) from Voldermort, but not everything else!

[She's Crafty]

I wasn't actually trying to suggest that all of Harry's power is because of the Voldemort transferrence thing - Harry has a lot of power that is simply natural (or perhaps inherited if you hold with the Godric Gryffindor's heir theory, which i remain on the fence on), there is no denying that, but somehow i doubt parseltongue is the only trait he inherited. JK did say that Harry would never be tempted to the Dark Side, so if there is anything else we have yet to find out about, Harry obviously will not ever think of using it for evil (as he doesn't with parseltogue).

[pegoheart144]

I believe that Harry would have been an above average wizard powerwise without the encounter with Voldemort. His parents were both powerful in their own rights. Add the encounter with Voldemort complete with the power or essence transfer and you will have an extremely powerful wizard. All he has to do is learn to harness and control that power.

I also think that some of a wizard's power does not show right away. I think some of them don't manifest themselves until he/she is older, perhaps fifteen or sixteen. It will be interesting to see what happens in these last three years of schooling. We might see any number of them show skills that weren't apparent in the earlier years.

Neville in particular is one to watch.

[miri]

Neville's gonna come to terms with what happened to his parents, develop his strong magical ability (which he's been blocking as a result of his parents being in St Mungos), and then he's gonna kick Voldie from here to kingdom come with a giant boot :)

Harry's gonna watch on, in understanding, and lend him a supportive hand if and when he needs it. Harry will no longer be forced into the hero role and will be able to be himself. Harry will help Neville deal with all the acclaim he will get.

Harry's powerful but *Hell hath no fury like a [young man who's grown up with parents left empty, heart-breaking shells in a menstal institute, when he gets the chance to let the evil person who did it know how much he disaproves]* :)

And I know Harry's got the whole *You killed my parents* rage, but he hasnt had to see the people who cared for him in his first year or so of life left so mentally scarred that they dont even recognise him.

Besides, most people dont see my version coming!