M-13 - Rush Limbaugh -- Too Far?

[LuvCreevey]

I was just wondering what you all thought about Rush Limbaugh's recent comments and his leaving ESPN and the backlash that is occurring now.

His Comments:
I think what we've had here is a little social concern in the NFL. The media has been very desirous that a black quarterback do well,''
``There is a little hope invested in McNabb, and he got a lot of credit for the performance of this team that he didn't deserve. The defense carried this team.''

I was just wondering what your opinions are;
Is what he said wrong morally
If so why?
Is there a conflict because he is already controversial, or are just the comments themselves the cause of the conflict?
Does he have a right to say what he wants because of freedom of speech? Or should he keep such comments to himself when featured in main stream media?

I think that he has the right to say what he likes. I don't think that he was saying anything against the quarterback, I feel it was more against the media. I can see why so people would not like the singling out of a player just because of his race. I also believe that so many people are so worried about being politically correct that they are interfering with freedom as speech. Then again I don't watch any sports so what do I know??

My first thread, please be gentle :blush:

[Midnightsfire]

Story can be found here (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/football/nfl/09/30/bc.fbn.mcnabb.limbaugh.ap/index.html) and a followup story with his resignation is [url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/football/nfl/10/02/limbaugh.resigns.ap/index.html]here.

Had he issued such commentary on his radio program, little would have been made of it. But he threw it in on ESPN, a media outlet, that focuses on sports, and the fact that "race" is vigorously ignored.

Is what he said wrong morally?

The words by themselves? No. I didn't view them as wrong. I don't really see them as negatively racist per se either. He had an opinion and he stated it.


Does he have a right to say what he wants because of freedom of speech? Or should he keep such comments to himself when featured in main stream media?

He has the right to say what he wishes. Unfortunately, that doesn't apply to when you're at your job/place of business. Oh yes, you can still say what you wish, but if you start bad-mouthing your employer, you probably won't be working there for much longer.

He could critique Mcnabb as often as he wanted as long as it was in the context of his playing the game. Interjecting "race" into his critique, at a place of business that has an unofficial policy to ignore "race"....not very smart.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I don't think it was wrong to say morally, I don't think it was racist, he definitely has the right to express that view, but it was a downright stupid comment. Of course Donovan McNabb is overrated - everyone who follows football knows that. But it's not because he's black - it's because he used to pretty good, his skill was magnified unwarrantedly by the Eagle's great defense, and now is a little worse than he used to be (anyone watch him last week) but his defense is mostly gone, bringing him down with it. It has nothing to do with race - quarterbacks rise and fall all the time - look at Kurt Warner or Jake Plummer.

[PrtVeela]

Definatley a stupid comment on his part, but then again that shouldn't suprise me.

He didn't have to bring in his color to make the point that he isn't that good. Of course he was hired to controversial so I don't really know what ESPN was expecting.

[Bhodi]

But he threw it in on ESPN, a media outlet, that focuses on sports, and the fact that "race" is vigorously ignored.

Sorry, Midnight, but I beg to differ... Race is not "vigorously ignored" on ESPN or in any other major news outlet covering sports, simply because race is still such a big issue in major sports today... They certainly didn't ignore the "Rooney Rule" and the interesting and controversial situations that has created already during its infancy...

They have also, like many other media outlets, not hesitated to identify athletes like McNabb, Vick, Culpeper, etc. as "black" or "African American" QBs, or Tiger as an "African American" golfer... In Tiger's case in particular, race was a big issue early on in his pro career, and when he began to win [and dominate] on the tour the media comparisons to Jackie Robinson flowed like tap water...

Limbaugh said something unsavory, but he just might have a logical basis for his criticism of the media (not McNabb, whom he didn't criticize, by the way...). His argument was basically that the media has built McNabb up to be something he isn't, primarily because he is black and they would like to see him succeed as a black QB in the league... Clearly, this point is debatable, and many obviously disagree with Rush on it... However, it would be interesting if someone were to do a content analysis of news stories (print, radio, and t.v.) in the Philadelphia area over the past couple of years to see if the data might actually bear this theory out...

Frankly, I think Limbaugh wasn't too bright to say what he did, knowing that there would be a backlash... But ESPN's gutless reaction is completely ridiculous, for two main reasons: (1) they knew Rush would be controversial when they hired him... Something like this happening was inevitable, yet at the very first sign of controversy, they fold up the tents and run for cover... (2) the cast and producers of the show knew what was coming--it's not like Limbaugh comes out of left field with a diatribe like this completely unrehearsed... The producers and talent had already heard it and approved it, otherwise it wouldn't have aired on the show... To then leave Limbaugh out in the cold is spineless and inexcusable...

IMHO, the backlash (which didn't begin until more than a day after the show had aired) in this situation derives primarily from the fact that Limbaugh is so despised by liberals and democrats for being an outspoken and quite successful conservative radio talk show host... And the reaction of democratic presidential candidates was perhaps one of the most ridiculous chapters in this whole affair--using this [non]issue to gain political capital with black constituents? Ridiculous... 'Tis a good example of how politics is such a filthy business lacking in any real substance these days...

Perhaps the silliest, most uninformed reaction, however, came from Donovan McNabb himself, who said something to the effect of 'I kinda thought we were past all that race stuff [in the NFL]...' Ummm... Donovan? Did you happen to crack open a newspaper at all this past spring or summer? Newsflash, baby--the NFL is not 'past all that race stuff', and won't be for quite awhile... Please review the Rooney Rule for starters on this subject, pal...

Did Limbaugh have a right to say what he did? Of course... Was it wise to do so? Of course not... Do major sports journalists "vigorously ignore" race issues in their reporting and commentary on the games they cover? Absolutely not... They'd be negligent in their failure to cover a variety of salient issues in the world of sports today if they did so...

I'll add a couple of questions to the list already presented...

In light of the events of this week, should we simply shout a big "everybody out of the pool" and prohibit any discussion of race in sports journalism from now on, for fear that it might be 'controversial'?

Could someone please explain to me why ESPN hired Limbaugh in the first place? (Clearly, it wasn't for ratings or money, given the fact that, in allowing Rush to resign, they've pissed away what would be a guaranteed ratings bonanza for their Sunday NFL show this week, and probably a larger increase than they were currently experiencing over the course of the remainder of the season (and I believe their ratings had already increased somewhere in the neighborhood of 10-12 percent thus far compared to last season))

Does anyone at ESPN feel like an @$$ right now? (because they should, for either (a) abandoning Limbaugh or (b) initiating the Limbaugh experiment in the first place or (c) both)

Anywho... Just my $.15 and change on the subject, FWIW... ;)

[Auror Williamson]

I fully support Rush Limbaugh's comments.

Anyone, both conservative and liberal alike is entitled to their own personal opinions, no matter how controversial they may be.

I sense this to be a large and elaborate campaign to denigrate El Rushbo's good name and position of power.

Why do you think this, you ask?

It's extremely obvious that this is a campaign against him when a day or two after his comments on ESPN are made, news comes out that Rush has bought thousands of prescription druges illegally through the black market.

Gimme a break here. If the whole drug allegation thing was factual, the authorites would be looking into this and would be prohibiting the release of allegations so serious as this from a rediculous tabloid as the National Enquirer.

Democrats saw the comments made by Rush as an opportunity to launch the first phase of their schmeere (sp?) campaign against El Rushbo.

El Rushbo is an extremely intelligent and wise man. I have very, very serious doubts at to him being so stupid as to but thousands of dollars worth of illegal black market pain killers.

The mighty El Rushbo has at least one supporter who won't defect from, who is sitting behind this computer with a Rush Limbaugh mouse pad with the caption "America's Truth Detector" written on the bottom.

I'm sure that if Limbaugh did commit the groundless and dastardly accusations, he would come out and admit to them. He has already said that if the government wants to launch and investigation into it, he is fully willing to cooperate.


NEW YORK — Political commentator Rush Limbaugh returned to his popular radio program Friday and said he was "frustrated" about allegations that he was involved in the sale and use of illegal drugs.
Limbaugh was back on the air one day after his name surfaced as the possible target of a criminal probe into the sale and use of illegal drugs in south Florida.

On the national program, which is carried by about 650 stations across the country, Limbaugh spoke briefly about the allegations of his drug use but avoided going into specifics. He said he was "a little frustrated" that he had not "gotten to the bottom" of what was happening.

"The story in Florida really is an emerging situation ... I don't really know the full scope of what I'm dealing with," he said. Limbaugh said he'd been humbled by all the supportive e-mails he'd received from fans, estimating he'd received about 25,000.

As for all the media stories that have emerged about the drug investigation, Limbaugh said that he was "tempted" to respond to them but "I'm not going to go there."

But he vowed to discuss the case in detail in the future.

"Rest assured, I will discuss this with you and tell you how it is ... maybe more than you really want to know about this," he said.

Limbaugh's official Web site, RushLimbaugh.com, broadcast his national radio show beginning at noon EDT Friday.

In a statement issued Thursday, Limbaugh said he was unaware of any investigation involving him. "No government representative has contacted me directly or indirectly. If my assistance is required, I will, of course, cooperate fully," he said.

Limbaugh has hired noted defense lawyer Roy Black, sources told Fox News. Black defended William Kennedy Smith, who was acquitted of rape charges in 1991.

The drug claims were only part of the scandal surrounding the controversial radio host that broke this week. Late on Wednesday, Limbaugh quit his job as a football analyst for ESPN after he came under fire for making comments about Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb, the media and race.

Limbaugh, who was criticized for suggesting that sports reporters were building up McNabb simply because he was a black quarterback, said during his radio show that he had nothing to apologize for.

"I know I'm right about this. I'm not going to retract anything," Limbaugh said Friday.

Drug Allegations Began With Former Housekeeper

Limbaugh apparently had multiple sources from whom he could illegally obtain the prescription drugs, namely OxyContin and two other painkillers, law enforcement sources told Fox News on Thursday.

OxyContin is a pain reliever that contains a very strong narcotic similar to morphine and is only intended for moderate to severe daily pain, according to the Food and Drug Administration. The two other painkillers Limbaugh allegedly obtained were Lorcet and Hydrocone, two medications that can damage hearing, sources told Fox News.

In 2001, Limbaugh discovered that his hearing was quickly disappearing. At one point, he used an elaborate setup at his South Florida studio involving transcribers and computer screens to read listeners' calls. He had an electronic device placed in his skull to help restore his hearing.

Reports in the New York Daily News and the National Enquirer alleged Limbaugh got the drugs from his housekeeper, Wilma Cline, who in some cases hid the drugs under Limbaugh's bed.

Cline told authorities that some of the drug handoffs took place at a gas station in West Palm Beach, Fla. Limbaugh allegedly would pull up in his car and Cline would hand over a cigar box full of pills in exchange for cash, sources told Fox News.

But sources close to the investigation told Fox News that Limbaugh had other drug suppliers and said the popular conservative personality could face a criminal inquiry by the Palm Beach County state attorney's office.

Cline's attorney, Ed Shohat, told Fox News that "my client stands behind her story." Cline has been granted immunity from prosecution in exchange for her cooperation, a source told Fox News.

The investigation apparently began as a probe into the illegal sale of prescription painkillers in South Florida that targeted dealers. But later investigators came across Limbaugh through clues gathered in a bust in Palm Beach County in May, revealing him as a buyer.

One source told Fox News that Limbaugh was implicated by Cline and her husband David, and also by “other suppliers” whom the source did not name. The Enquirer paid the Clines a six-figure fee for their story, according to the source.

Asked about the culpability of Limbaugh, the source said that he could still face charges for having a large quantity of prescription painkillers without a prescription, but the source added that no charges are imminent.


This sounds extremely fishy to me. A lot like a set up if you ask me.

[jasper]

His opinion, right or wrong, is not a moral issue.

He wasn't a good fit for that show anyway.

As far as it being a set up. . . I heard someone spouting the theory that he knew his drug accusation was on the way, so he went out and caused this sports scandle first, hoping it would be the bigger story. I doubt it.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

As far as it being a set up. . . I heard someone spounting the theory that he knew his drug accusation was on the way, so he went out and caused this scandle first, hoping it would be the bigger story. I doubt it.
Well, if it's true, it definitely worked!

But there's no way its true. People just get crazy sometimes, thinking conspiracy theories up.

After all, the reason why the drug thing blew is because he made the comment - a greater spotlight was put on him by the media after he made it.

Another thing - notice how the pther anchors of ESPN reacted when he said the comment - they said nothing, none of them, including the black members, thought it was at all out of the ordinary. In fact, the whole thing only blew open much later, well after Limbaugh said it. If he deliberately said the comment to hide other scandals, don't you think he would make a comment bad enough to really get everyone excited?

[Auror Williamson]

Taken from the Drudge Report, which is a very credible news website. If you would like to listen to the Matt Drudge, who runs the website, check you local radio's pogram schedule for tonight. Matt has a radio program every Sunday.

President Bush expressed support of radio star Rush Limbaugh in conversations with top staff on Thursday, a senior administration source told the DRUDGE REPORT.

"Rush is a great American," the president said of the beleaguered host, who has championed the conservative movement for decades. "I am confident he can overcome any obstacles he faces right now."

Meanwhile, the NATIONAL ENQUIRER is contemplating releasing on to the Internet audio tapes of Limbaugh made by his former housekeeper. The ENQUIRER carried allegations made by the housekeeper claiming Limbaugh bought prescription painkillers off the blackmarket.

I love President Bush even more....

[LuvCreevey]

I asked my husband what he thought on the topic, below is his reply. He almost had tears in his eyes, because I mentioned something to do with sports, hehehe


"First and foremost we should look at Mcnabb's track record. He kept an average syracuse team in the top 20 when we was there. And he was at the front of the Philly comeback. Yes he had a great defense but last time I checked you cannot win a game unless you score more than the other team. McNabb was able to lead a middle of the pack offense to the nfc title game not once but twice. As far as ESPN not standing behind Rush, they are owned by Disney. Does anyone think Disney would ever take a stand in this issuse. Nope. But as Dan Patrick, ESPN anchor, said on his radio show" rush was hired to create conterversy, he did that and I don't think he should have quit". Of course he added he thought the comments made were way out there and unjustified. That being said ask any football fan if they wanted Mcnabb on their team and at least 25 teams would. I'm a giants fan and would think long and hard about replacing Kery Collins with him."

[PrtVeela]

I fully support Rush Limbaugh's comments.

Anyone, both conservative and liberal alike is entitled to their own personal opinions, no matter how controversial they may be.

I sense this to be a large and elaborate campaign to denigrate El Rushbo's good name and position of power.

Why do you think this, you ask?

It's extremely obvious that this is a campaign against him when a day or two after his comments on ESPN are made, news comes out that Rush has bought thousands of prescription druges illegally through the black market.

Gimme a break here. If the whole drug allegation thing was factual, the authorites would be looking into this and would be prohibiting the release of allegations so serious as this from a rediculous tabloid as the National Enquirer.

Democrats saw the comments made by Rush as an opportunity to launch the first phase of their schmeere (sp?) campaign against El Rushbo.

El Rushbo is an extremely intelligent and wise man. I have very, very serious doubts at to him being so stupid as to but thousands of dollars worth of illegal black market pain killers.

The mighty El Rushbo has at least one supporter who won't defect from, who is sitting behind this computer with a Rush Limbaugh mouse pad with the caption "America's Truth Detector" written on the bottom.

Limbaugh, who was criticized for suggesting that sports reporters were building up McNabb simply because he was a black quarterback, said during his radio show that he had nothing to apologize for.

"I know I'm right about this. I'm not going to retract anything," Limbaugh said Friday.

Drug Allegations Began With Former Housekeeper

Limbaugh apparently had multiple sources from whom he could illegally obtain the prescription drugs, namely OxyContin and two other painkillers, law enforcement sources told Fox News on Thursday.

OxyContin is a pain reliever that contains a very strong narcotic similar to morphine and is only intended for moderate to severe daily pain, according to the Food and Drug Administration. The two other painkillers Limbaugh allegedly obtained were Lorcet and Hydrocone, two medications that can damage hearing, sources told Fox News.

In 2001, Limbaugh discovered that his hearing was quickly disappearing. At one point, he used an elaborate setup at his South Florida studio involving transcribers and computer screens to read listeners' calls. He had an electronic device placed in his skull to help restore his hearing.

Reports in the New York Daily News and the National Enquirer alleged Limbaugh got the drugs from his housekeeper, Wilma Cline, who in some cases hid the drugs under Limbaugh's bed.

Cline told authorities that some of the drug handoffs took place at a gas station in West Palm Beach, Fla. Limbaugh allegedly would pull up in his car and Cline would hand over a cigar box full of pills in exchange for cash, sources told Fox News.

But sources close to the investigation told Fox News that Limbaugh had other drug suppliers and said the popular conservative personality could face a criminal inquiry by the Palm Beach County state attorney's office.

Cline's attorney, Ed Shohat, told Fox News that "my client stands behind her story." Cline has been granted immunity from prosecution in exchange for her cooperation, a source told Fox News.

One source told Fox News that Limbaugh was implicated by Cline and her husband David, and also by “other suppliers” whom the source did not name. The Enquirer paid the Clines a six-figure fee for their story, according to the source.


This sounds extremely fishy to me. A lot like a set up if you ask me.


Yes, his good name :huh: wouldn't want to tarnish that, although he's doing a pretty good job of it himself

A set up because clearly people don't have anything better to do then to set up Radio talk show hosts about abusing perscription pain killers, oh and we can always trust the FNC for "fair and balanced reporting". I especially like how they poke fun at the leak investigation, I mean goodness knows that the "liberal media" is blowing this leak investigation way out of proportion, I mean just because a persons life was on the line, p-shaw. Darn you, you "liberal media" you.

P.S. OxyContin is actually similar to heroin not morphine.

[bungo mungo]

I'm not a big Rush fan (his style just grates against me...) but seriously, this has gotten blown so out of proportion.

Where was the uproar when Dusty Baker said "blacks and latinos can play baseball much better than white boys because they have darker skin." (That is roughly what he said, can't find what he exactly said..)

In both cases, the statement was unwise, but there is no need, IMO, for the outcry that is occurring over Rush's comments.

btw...i feel like i've come back from the dead :lol: i've been so busy lately with college and studying physics and organic chemistry :wow:

[Auror Williamson]

As bungo mungo, said, where is the outcry from the Liberal left when their own make racist statements? In your views, it's acceptable for a democrat to say something racist and insensitive, but it is unacceptable for a Republican to do the same, even if it done for the purpose of exposing the truth!

Unfortunately, PrtVeela has fallen into the foul hands of the drug accusations, and I fear she may never see the truth, :)

[LuvCreevey]

What Dusty Baker said:
"It's easier for most Latin guys and it's easier for most minority people because most of us come from heat," Baker said. "You don't find too many brothers in New Hampshire and Maine and the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. ... We were brought over here for the heat, right? Isn't that history? Weren't we brought over because we could take the heat?"

His comment on his comment:

"What I meant is that blacks and Latins take the heat better than most whites, and whites take the cold better than most blacks and Latins. That's it, pure and simple. Nothing deeper than that."

IMO I think what Dusty Baker said was way more racially intense that what Rush said. I think people just love to hate Rush. I wonder what would have happend if a white manager had made those coments.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

P.S. OxyContin is actually similar to heroin not morphine.
Actually, both heroin and morphine are opium derivatives (both were derived from opium to originally make a non-addictive painkiller. Of course, both were very addictive.)

[bungo mungo]

Thanks LuvCreevey for clearing that up...

that is alot worse than what i thought he originally said....

[LuvCreevey]

Bungo, No Problem
The Funny thing is I never even heard about it until you mentioned it. The only think that I knew about Dusty Baker, is that he let his lil kid on the field durring a baseball game, and he almost got run over.
There were several articals on it and the lack of back lash, I thought they would be too much for this thread.

[Auror Williamson]

Dusty Baker said those "heat" things back in June, I recollect. I remember listening to El Rushbo's radio program the day after he made the statements, and fondly remember him saying, "Where is the outcry from the Liberals about this?!"

Good ol' Rushie, he's got a supporter in me.

[PrtVeela]

As bungo mungo, said, where is the outcry from the Liberal left when their own make racist statements? In your views, it's acceptable for a democrat to say something racist and insensitive, but it is unacceptable for a Republican to do the same, even if it done for the purpose of exposing the truth!

Unfortunately, PrtVeela has fallen into the foul hands of the drug accusations, and I fear she may never see the truth, :)

Hes dead deal with it & Auror
Your right I now see the light, darn you drug accusations. I was just making a point that oxi-contin is more similar to herion which is hes-dead is different to morphine despite the fact that they come from the same plant.

The actual drug is called oxycodone hydrochloride, oxycotin is its trade name, which is usually perscriped to people w/ Chronic pain, usually cancer related. Unless Limbaugh is hiding this illness.

Out of morhpine or heroin, heroin is the most dangerous. "After heroin, morphine has the greatest dependence liability of the narcotic analgesics in common use." http://www.chamisamesa.net/morphine.html
Now hopefully u see why I made the distinction b/w the two.

OxyContin is a prescription painkiller used to control mild to moderate pain, chronic pain, and pain related to cancer and other debilitating conditions. OxyContin contains oxycodone, the medication's active ingredient, in a timed-release tablet. Oxycodone products have been illicitly abused for the past 30 years.1 http://www.whitehousedrugpolicy.gov/drugfact/oxycontin/


OVERVIEW

Abuse and diversion of the prescription pain reliever OxyContin are serious problems in certain areas of the United States, particularly in the East. In 1996, OxyContin was introduced as a longer lasting dosage of oxycodone, which is prescribed for the treatment of moderate to severe pain. Since 1996, Drug Abuse Warning Network (DAWN) data indicate an increasing number of emergency department mentions and deaths associated with oxycodone. The growing abuse of OxyContin, commonly known as Oxy’s, OC’s, Killers, Poor Man’s Heroin, and Hillbilly Heroin, is leading to an increase in burglaries, thefts, and robberies of residences and pharmacies. http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/intel/02017/02017.html

[DsX Phoenix]

I fully support Rush Limbaugh's comments.

Anyone, both conservative and liberal alike is entitled to their own personal opinions, no matter how controversial they may be.

I sense this to be a large and elaborate campaign to denigrate El Rushbo's good name and position of power.

Why do you think this, you ask?

It's extremely obvious that this is a campaign against him when a day or two after his comments on ESPN are made, news comes out that Rush has bought thousands of prescription druges illegally through the black market.

Gimme a break here. If the whole drug allegation thing was factual, the authorites would be looking into this and would be prohibiting the release of allegations so serious as this from a rediculous tabloid as the [I]National Enquirer

Well, first of all, this is the same tabloid that posts stories about government dealing with aliens and such...this is not a news source anyone with 1/2 a brain would ever take seriously.

As far as this being a ploy by the "Left" to tarnish his name? I think that's a crock, frankly. I mean, yes, this is absolutely a huge overreaction by the media, but this is not because Rush is conservative, it is because he made a "racial" statement (I put racial in quotes because I do not believe he was being racist, but the comment could and was manipulated enough to have the same effect). You simply do not make statements like this on national television without some major backlash, conservative or liberal alike.

Did he have a right to say what he wanted to? Yes. Was it racist? Probably not. Was it absolutely stupid? Defininately. And finally, to someone less educated than Rush, could this be translated as racist? Absolutely.

Oh, and for the record, I think the Democrats who were trying to use this for election votes, are, well, not worth voting for...

[PrtVeela]

The media is calling it "racially motivated" and/or "racially charged" (which they were as race played an issue in them) comments, I don't believe the media is accusing him of being a racist. What they are saying that this comment was in poor taste, which it was.

[DsX Phoenix]

Yes, but people who see this played on the media will believe the comments were racist. I mean, McNabb believed they were (As an example).

And when the media portrays something as "racially charged" they pretty much portray it as a racist action.

[Bhodi]

As far as this being a ploy by the "Left" to tarnish his name? I think that's a crock, frankly. I mean, yes, this is absolutely a huge overreaction by the media, but this is not because Rush is conservative, it is because he made a "racial" statement (I put racial in quotes because I do not believe he was being racist, but the comment could and was manipulated enough to have the same effect). You simply do not make statements like this on national television without some major backlash, conservative or liberal alike.


I slightly disagree in that I think the overreaction is precisely because Rush is a well-known, popular conservative media personality... I wouldn't call it a "ploy" or "conspiracy", but do think that folks who dislike Limbaugh and his politics are maximizing this opportunity to knock him down, blowing the supposed controversy well out of proportion in the process...

I still haven't seen anyone advance an argument in the media that completely disproves or debunks Rush's argument with solid data... Of course, on the flip side, Rush didn't provide any data to support his argument either, so technically I suppose the onus really falls on him to present some data that supports his argument first... The hypothesis is certainly valid, but he presented no actual data to support his conclusion...

I'm not sure I agree with your statement on "backlash", either... I think conservatives are virtually guaranteed to suffer backlash when making any statement touching upon race, whereas liberals are sometimes able to get away unscathed... There is a documented liberal, democratic bias among reporters and editors in America's newsrooms... As human beings (i.e. imperfect, emotional, subjective creatures), eventually this bias finds its way into reporting, despite efforts to control it... (Truth be known, there is also a documented conservative bias among media owners, but these folks are rarely involved in making day-to-day editorial decisions in the newsroom)...

[DsX Phoenix]

I slightly disagree in that I think the overreaction is precisely because Rush is a well-known, popular conservative media personality... I wouldn't call it a "ploy" or "conspiracy", but do think that folks who dislike Limbaugh and his politics are maximizing this opportunity to knock him down, blowing the supposed controversy well out of proportion in the process...

I'm not sure I agree with your statement on "backlash", either... I think conservatives are virtually guaranteed to suffer backlash when making any statement touching upon race, whereas liberals are sometimes able to get away unscathed... There is a documented liberal, democratic bias among reporters and editors in America's newsrooms... As human beings (i.e. imperfect, emotional, subjective creatures), eventually this bias finds its way into reporting, despite efforts to control it... (Truth be known, there is also a documented conservative bias among media owners, but these folks are rarely involved in making day-to-day editorial decisions in the newsroom)...

OK, well, yes, I do believe certain liberals have used this as an opportunity to advance their views, which I really disdain. But the controversy got media attention because it was "racially charged" comments made on national television.

As far as your comments about the media being liberally biased, this isn't exactly true. Yes, certain media groups (CNN, New York Times) are liberally biased, but there are others (Fox News, Washington Post) which are equally conservatively biased.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I still haven't seen anyone advance an argument in the media that completely disproves or debunks Rush's argument with solid data... Of course, on the flip side, Rush didn't provide any data to support his argument either, so technically I suppose the onus really falls on him to present some data that supports his argument first... The hypothesis is certainly valid, but he presented no actual data to support his conclusion...

Well, this won't completely debunk it, but it helped shape my opinion:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2003/writers/peter_king/09/30/mcnabb_limbaugh/index.html
As I said before - Rush was wrong. McNabb is overrated because he used to be very good, not because of the media. But at the same time, the remark was not in any way, shape, or form racist, and the public lynching of Rush was terrible.





(Oh, and BTW, don't take the word "lynching" the wrong way. It's called a pun.)

[jasper]

The media "over reacted" to Rush making racial statements?? Just because the statements were about race?

Hmmm.

I think the media reaction is fueled by the face that Rush's statement was directed at the media.

[Midnightsfire]

Soo...Does any Rush Limbaugh fan here remember how he said drug users should be punished.

I am addicted to prescription pain medication (http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031010/laf041_1.html).

*shrugs* Yeah....I'm just stirring the pot, so to speak.

[LuvCreevey]

Wow I am really surprised that he came foward! I am really interested to see how this plays out!

[Auror Williamson]

Bad news: The drug allegations are true.

NEW YORK (Oct. 10) - Conservative commentator Rush Limbaugh announced during his radio program Friday that he is addicted to painkillers and is checking into a rehab center to ''break the hold this highly addictive medication has on me.''

''You know I have always tried to be honest with you and open about my life,'' Limbaugh said during a stunning admission aired nationwide. ''So I need to tell you today that part of what you have heard and read is correct. I am addicted to prescription pain medication.''

''Immediately following this broadcast, I am checking myself into a treatment center for the next 30 days to once and for all break the hold this highly addictive medication has on me,'' he added.

Limbaugh gave up his job as an ESPN sports analyst Oct. 1, three days after saying on the sports network's ''Sunday NFL Countdown'' that Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb was overrated because the media wanted to see a black quarterback succeed.

The reports of possible drug abuse surfaced at about the same time, first in the National Enquirer. The tabloid had interviewed Wilma Cline, who said she became Limbaugh's drug connection after working as his maid. She said Limbaugh had abused OxyContin and other painkillers.

Law enforcement sources who spoke on condition of anonymity confirmed to The Associated Press that Limbaugh was being investigated by the Palm Beach County, Fla., state attorney's office.

''At the present time, the authorities are conducting an investigation, and I have been asked to limit my public comments until this investigation is complete,'' Limbaugh said Friday.

Mike Edmondson, a spokesman for the Palm Beach County state attorney's office, said Friday his office could neither confirm nor deny that an investigation was under way. Limbaugh's attorney, Roy Black, did not return a message seeking comment.

Limbaugh said he started taking painkillers ''some years ago'' after a doctor prescribed them following a spinal surgery. His back pain stemming from the surgery persisted, so Limbaugh said he started taking pills and became hooked.

''Over the past several years I have tried to break my dependence on pain pills and, in fact, twice checked myself into medical facilities in an attempt to do so. I have recently agreed with my physician about the next steps.''


One must give credit to El Rushbo for being up front and honest about this whole ordeal, and his new efforts to get help for his addiction.

I still support you Rush.

[Midnightsfire]

A few quotes:

"We're going to let you destroy your life. We're going to make it easy and then all of us who accept the responsibilities of life and don't destroy our lives on drugs, we'll pay for whatever messes you get into."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec. 9, 1993

"I'm appalled at people who simply want to look at all this abhorrent behavior and say people are going to do drugs anyway let's legalize it. It's a dumb idea. It's a rotten idea and those who are for it are purely 100 percent selfish."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec 9, 1993

"If (Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders) wants to legalize drugs, send the people who want to do drugs to London and Zurich, and let's be rid of them.
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec 9, 1993

"There's nothing good about drug use. We know it. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. Drug use destroys societies. Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up.

"What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Oct. 5, 1995

[Auror Williamson]

Please take notice that all of those comments before his spinal surgery which lead to him become addicted to painkillers.

Millions of people are addicted to oxycontin.

The below is taken from www.oxycontin-addiction-help.com

OxyContin, marketed by Purdue Pharma L.P., has been linked to addiction, suffering and death of patients using this prescription painkiller. Addiction and abuse of the drug, crime and fatal overdoses have all been reported as a result of OxyContin use.

OxyContin, approved by the FDA in 1995, is a time-released form of oxycodone, an opium derivative, which is the same active ingredient in Percodan and Percocet. OxyContin is intended for use by terminal cancer patients and chronic pain sufferers. It has been linked to at least 120 overdose deaths nationwide.

It has been alleged that Purdue Pharma L.P. has marketed the drug excessively without stressing its addictive nature. Doctors and pharmacists say the manufacturer of OxyContin promoted the benefits of the drug without providing enough warning about the serious side effects of addiction. It has also been alleged Purdue Pharma L.P. made misrepresentations and failed to sufficiently warn individuals regarding the appropriate use and risks of OxyContin.

It has been reported that OxyContin's sales exceeded $1 billion in the United States in the year 2000.

Health organizations, have launched a national initiative to educate the public about the dangers of the use of prescription drugs, and the potential for abuse and addiction. With psychological addiction, there is a preoccupation with obtaining and using drugs that persists despite the consequences.

Physical dependence, which is sometimes unavoidable, develops when an individual is exposed to a drug at a high enough dose for long enough that the body adapts and develops a tolerance for the drug. This means that higher doses are needed to achieve a drug's original effects. If the patient stops taking the drug, withdrawal will occur.

But the development of physical dependence doesn't necessarily lead to addiction in all cases; the individual can't just stop taking the drug; the dose has to be tapered, a method to gradually decrease a drug's amount over time to prevent withdrawal reactions.

Physician supervision and appropriate use is critical for all prescription drugs. Doctors consider a patient's diagnosis and whether non-addictive treatments should be considered first. Very strong opiate drugs play a critical role in pain management.

Complicating matters is the fact that some physicians are vastly undertrained in identifying drug abuse. The average physician gets little training in drug abuse, mainly because drug abuse has only been recently recognized as a health problem.

One recent survey from the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University in New York City indicated that nearly half of primary care physicians report having difficulty talking about substance abuse with patients. To educate health-care providers about the risks of OxyContin, Purdue Pharma of Stamford, Conn., manufacturer of the product, has issued a warning in the form of a "Dear Health Care Professional" letter, which will be distributed to physicians, pharmacists, and other health-care professionals. The letter highlights the problems associated with OxyContin abuse and explains the changes to the labeling, including proper prescribing information.

[bungo mungo]

Thanks for the info AW...

Addiction is such a hard thing to overcome. Good luck to him on getting that treated.

[Auror Williamson]

Here's some more info on OxyContin addiction from www.oxycontin-addiction.net

OxyContin addiction has come to the attention of drug abuse watchdog groups nationwide as OxyContin addiction has increased many times over in recent years. OxyContin addiction is a new phenomenon in that OxyContin was approved by the Food and Drug Administration(FDA) only 7 years ago in 1995. OxyContin addiction is as severe as heroin addiction because they are both derived from opium. Although man-made by the pharmaceutical company Purdue Pharma, OxyContin addiction is no less severe just because it is a synthetic drug. Like heroin, Percodan or Percocet, OxyContin addiction must be treated in a facility like Spencer Recovery Center where doctors can aide withdrawal with medications and licensed counselors can address new behavioral skills.

OxyContin is the brand name for oxycodone hydrochloride which is used as a mild to severe pain reliever for patients with chronic pain. Individuals with a legitimate need for OxyContin include cancer patients and the drug has been praised for it's long lasting pain reliving qualities. However, the manufacturer has been criticised for not properly informing doctors and patients of the high potential of OxyContin addiction. Thousands of prescriptions are handed out every year and abuse, crime and fatal overdoses have since all been linked to OxyContin addiction. Though formulated as a 12 hour time release pill, OxyContin addiction becomes more likely as individuals abuse the drug. This is done by disabeling the time release structure of the pill by chewing, crushing or dissolving the pill into liquid form and then eating, snorting or injecting the solution.

When taken orally or injected in this powder form, the time-release structure is by-passed and the user experiences a rush similar to heroin. The mind and body easily become obsessed with this pleasurable rush and a physical craving can develop causing addiction. OxyContin addiction manifests through chronic use and increasing tolerance so that more of the drug is needed to feel the same effects smaller doses once provided.

Opioids like OxyContin and heroin block pain messengers to the brain and central nervous system. They also increase the amount of dopamine in the brain which causes increased feelings of pleasure and euphoria. Consequences result as the body seeks a balance and compensates for the increased dopamine and increased pleasure. Tolerance develops when the body compensates and the individual soon needs more and more OxyContin to get the same pleasurable feelings that one or two doses used to provide. OxyContin addiction creeps up on the individual until acquiring the drug becomes a full time obsession affecting friends, family, career, kids, finances and possibly involving the police.

[DsX Phoenix]

Please take notice that all of those comments before his spinal surgery which lead to him become addicted to painkillers.


LOL. Now, I am not saying Rush should be hanged for his drug addiction, nor do I believe he is a bad guy simply because he was against drugs and yet was succombed to a drug addiction of his own. But surely, everyone here can see the humor in trying to defend his "hypocrisy" with the statement, "Notice these anti-drug comments were made before he himself became a drug addict."

Anyways, no, Rush is not a bad man, he just got a prescription for something he couldn't control. Of course, I do believe this kind of hurts the whole democratic conspiracy theory, doesn't it?

[PrtVeela]

Hope "El Rushbo" is planning on longer than a 30 day stay, because addiction to opium is one of the hardest to overcome, and if its not something that he wants to do, then there's no way he'll make it.

(Despite what he says none of us truly know what he feels) Hopefully though he will get the help he needs, and the time he needs to defeat the addiction.

[iolair]

A few quotes:

"We're going to let you destroy your life. We're going to make it easy and then all of us who accept the responsibilities of life and don't destroy our lives on drugs, we'll pay for whatever messes you get into."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec. 9, 1993

"I'm appalled at people who simply want to look at all this abhorrent behavior and say people are going to do drugs anyway let's legalize it. It's a dumb idea. It's a rotten idea and those who are for it are purely 100 percent selfish."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec 9, 1993

"If (Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders) wants to legalize drugs, send the people who want to do drugs to London and Zurich, and let's be rid of them.
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Dec 9, 1993

"There's nothing good about drug use. We know it. It destroys individuals. It destroys families. Drug use destroys societies. Drug use, some might say, is destroying this country. And we have laws against selling drugs, pushing drugs, using drugs, importing drugs. And the laws are good because we know what happens to people in societies and neighborhoods which become consumed by them. And so if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up.

"What this says to me is that too many whites are getting away with drug use. Too many whites are getting away with drug sales. Too many whites are getting away with trafficking in this stuff. The answer to this disparity is not to start letting people out of jail because we're not putting others in jail who are breaking the law. The answer is to go out and find the ones who are getting away with it, convict them and send them up the river, too."
-- Rush Limbaugh show, Oct. 5, 1995




Well, he's right, isn't he? I mean, come on, we often say things we don't mean, we all give advice we can't take ourselves, and we all, at one point or another, are hypocritical for the benefit of others. And how many people here can argue with these and more statements made by him? The fact that he admitted to being a drug abuser does not sway his credibility a bit; in fact, it might be one-up for him. He knows it's wrong, and, as the saying goes, knowing it's wrong is the first step to righting it.

[Auror Williamson]

Limbaugh to Resume Hosting Radio Show

WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (Nov. 12) - Rush Limbaugh will return to his radio talk show Monday after completing a five-week treatment program for his addiction to painkillers, his brother said Wednesday.

David Limbaugh made the announcement to Internet personality Matt Drudge, who was sitting in Wednesday for the conservative commentator.

Limbaugh left the air Oct. 10 after acknowledging that he had been abusing prescription painkillers.

Limbaugh plans to resume his regular schedule, hosting his three-hour show on weekdays for his audience of 20 million, his brother said.

"He's obviously chomping at the bit to get back to doing what he does best," David Limbaugh said.

Rush Limbaugh said last month that he was checking himself into a treatment center to "once and for all break the hold this highly addictive medication has on me."

His brother said the host successfully completed the first phase of his treatment. He did not say what the next step is.

[Kaonashi]

Just 5 weeks? Umm...okay Rush. There's been people in methodone clinics that have been getting treatment for far longer than that, and Oxy-Contin is very addicting. Here's hoping that he doesn't send his maid out to score for him anymore.

[jasper]

time flies, eh? I hope he's on the right track.

[Hagrid442]

Hmmm... perusing over this thread. Yes, I'm a fairly liberal Democrat, and actually I believe looking back on it all, his ESPN comments were overblown as long as one looks merely at that context. However, he does have a history. For instance, he once told a black caller to his show to "take that bone of your nose." I'm sure there are many other instances. But yeah, what he said on ESPN actually had a kernel of truth. McNabb is overhyped by the media. His stats really aren't all that great. He's a middling QB that just happens to be able to run. Limbaugh was wrong to bring race into the equation. It's incidental that most running QB's are black, just not incidental that they're often overrated. LOL. Kinda convoluted, but all I mean is that a QB is supposed to pass the ball and run the offense, not be another running back. Ironically, one of McNabb's finest games was when he broke his leg, and couldn't run anymore, yet still played. It forced him to concentrate on being a 1/4 back, instead of trying to be what I call a 3/8ths back (in between QB and Halfback). Anyway, I wasn't quite sure if Rush should have resigned, but then again what the hell was ESPN hiring such a fool in the first place?

On Dusty Baker's remarks, I was outraged. What right does he have in making a gross generalization? It makes me wonder how good a manager he really is. He's been thoroughly out-managed two playoffs in a row, because he's not the best in-game tactician. But yeah, if a white manager said something like that, he'd be out on his can the next day. Double-standard? You betcha.

I also thought the National Enquirer story on Rush's addiction was pure tripe at first. How credible is the National Enquirer? It is only when real news outlets like the New York Times started reporting it, and then his confession that I had to admit it was true. It's funny how Rush Limbaugh talks about giving drug-users harsh sentences, yet this wasn't the first time he has had to go into treatment. If his theory was applied on him, he'd be in jail for a couple years now. Can someone say hypocrite? Oh well, I will be more compassionate to him in this case. I really hope he breaks his addiction, and maybe in the future he'll consider softening his views a bit. It might be false hope, but as loathsome as I find him, he deserves that consideration.

[Auror Williamson]

Rush Limbaugh Returns From Rehab

Conservative Commentator Back on the Air After 'Five Intense Weeks'

NEW YORK (Nov. 17) - Rush Limbaugh returned to radio Monday after what he called ''five intense weeks'' of rehab for an addiction to painkillers, promising listeners ''even more honesty to come.''

The conservative commentator thanked his listeners for their concern, and assured them that his ordeal would not affect his radio program.

"I've not been phony here, I've not been artificial on the program,'' he said. ''I was all of that elsewhere.'' He did not elaborate.

Limbaugh had not appeared on the air since Oct. 10, before going into a rehabilitation program in Arizona.

''I spent five intense weeks, probably the most educational and intense five weeks on myself that I have ever spent. I would have had no idea how to do this myself,'' Limbaugh said at the start of his syndicated radio program.

He also said ''there is a whole lot of stuff I can tell you that I can't tell you yet.'' He said it's not because he's afraid, adding, ''There's even more honesty to come.''

Limbaugh had said he started taking prescription painkillers ''some years ago'' when a doctor prescribed them following spinal surgery. Back pain stemming from the surgery persisted, Limbaugh said, so he kept taking pills and became hooked.

Admitting he was powerless over his addiction, Limbaugh said he learned more about himself during rehab than he ever had. He called it as important as the first grade.

''I am no longer trying to live my life by making other people happy,'' he said, broadcasting from a Manhattan studio. ''I can no longer turn the power of my feelings over to other people.''

He admitted he had to study up to see what has gone on while he was away, and quickly returned to familiar topics - attacking Sen. Edward Kennedy, the Massachusetts Democrat.

Limbaugh's show reaches some 600 markets and about 20 million listeners a week, but WABC radio in New Yorksaid Monday it expected to attract a larger than usual audience on Limbaugh's first day back.

Since Limbaugh left the show, his spot has been filled by several guest hosts, including Tony Snow, Walter Williams and Matt Drudge.

His brother, David Limbaugh, had announced on the show last week that the commentator was returning, saying he was ''champing at the bit to get back to doing what he does best.''

Limbaugh gave up his job as an ESPN sports analyst Oct. 1, three days after saying on the sports network's ''Sunday NFL Countdown'' that Philadelphia Eagles quarterback Donovan McNabb was overrated because the media wanted to see a black quarterback succeed. The drug allegations surfaced around the same time.

In the past, Limbaugh had decried drug use and abuse on his bluntly conservative show, arguing that drug crimes deserve punishment.

A law enforcement source in Palm Beach County, where Limbaugh owns a $24 million oceanfront mansion, said last week that Limbaugh's drug use is still under investigation by the state attorney's office.

Reports of possible drug abuse first appeared in the National Enquirer, which quoted his maid as saying she was his drug connection. She said Limbaugh had abused OxyContin and other drugs.

[NYCwitch920]

When they were showing local news here, the cameras were waiting for him outside of his building in the city. I know he doesn't exactly have the greatest reputation but you would think that he could at least leave work in peace after being in rehab for five weeks... :shrug:

[Midnightsfire]

*blinks at last post*

Umm...Check the title of thread....

[Hagrid442]

Hmmm... is he calling a session to call for raising property taxes? That'll help more than anything.

But yeah, that's misplaced. :P

[Auror Williamson]

Whoops, sorry Midnightsfire and everyone else. That was meant for the Recall thread, obviously.


*goes to delete post*

[Adalbert Waffling]

I think there is nothing wrong with what Rush said. It is a general Stateent, and the truth. I have nothing against african-americans, but some people overreact when anyone who is not african american says anything that is derogatory to them and uses the word "black", even if says nothing insulting on their behalf. Rush's comment could be taken the wrong way, but people need to hear what he is saying, and not tone out everything but the 5 words surrounding the word "black". What he said was true. Everyone knows it but no one said it. He did. Thats what happened.

[Hagrid442]

Whoops... looks like ol' Rushy is in big time trouble. (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/rush_limbaugh_031118-1.html)

[Midnightsfire]

Whoops... looks like ol' Rushy is in big time trouble. (http://abcnews.go.com/sections/WNT/US/rush_limbaugh_031118-1.html)
Radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh may have violated state money-laundering laws in the way he handled the money he used to buy the prescription drugs to which he was addicted, law enforcement officials in Florida and New York told ABCNEWS.

Yeah...I read about that yesterday. For someone who had held himself up as being representative of a very moral person, I'd say he is more of an example of a hypocrite. He'd go a long way to being a bit more credible if he insisted on going to jail for a few years.

[Bhodi]

Radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh may have violated state money-laundering laws in the way he handled the money he used to buy the prescription drugs to which he was addicted, law enforcement officials in Florida and New York told ABCNEWS.

Yeah...I read about that yesterday. For someone who had held himself up as being representative of a very moral person, I'd say he is more of an example of a hypocrite. He'd go a long way to being a bit more credible if he insisted on going to jail for a few years.

So is it safe to assume that you are suggesting Limbaugh should be convicted for money-laundering before facing any formal charges or having the opportunity to defend himself in a court of law before a jury of his peers? C'mon, Midnight... You're much too intelligent to allow your dislike of Rush Limbaugh to toss the cart before the horse here...

[Auror Williamson]

Such hatred of a moral and intelligent man is not necessary. You can't simply point and shout, "I don't like Rush Limbaugh! He needs to be in prison for a few years!" You've got to give the man a chance in court then a full trail in a court of law before labeling him a criminal.

[Kaonashi]

I think there is nothing wrong with what Rush said. It is a general Stateent, and the truth. I have nothing against african-americans, but some people overreact when anyone who is not african american says anything that is derogatory to them and uses the word "black", even if says nothing insulting on their behalf. Rush's comment could be taken the wrong way, but people need to hear what he is saying, and not tone out everything but the 5 words surrounding the word "black". What he said was true. Everyone knows it but no one said it. He did. Thats what happened.

Nothing wrong except it has absolutely NOTHING to do with what was being discussed at hand. The discusson was about McNabb being a bit off this season. Throwing his race in it was silly. All sports figures are overhyped, if you ask me, regardless of race, and ESPN was NOT the place to express his feelings about McNabb. It would be just as silly as if Mark McGuire was being a bit off and he said "Oh, but you know, we want those Irish to SUCCEED! And oh, by the way, the Irish are overhyped." If McNabb was Hispanic, Asian, Native American, etc I have a feeling that Rush would have found a way to work that angle in. ESPN is NOT a extension of his show.

As for Dusty Baker.... :banghead: why isn't that man fired? It was a ridiculous thing he said. I felt embarrassed for that man.

I wish Rush well on his continued recovery, but I find it disgusting that on his show he talked about minorities and drugs and yet he sends out his minority maid to score drugs for him so he wouldn't get his hands dirty. The irony in this would be delicious if it wasn't so sad.

edit: Moral people do NOT send others out to cop their drugs for them. I would have had more respect for him if he had gotten his own drugs, decided he had a problem, announced it on his show and went into treatment without being outed by the Enquirer first.

[Midnightsfire]

So is it safe to assume that you are suggesting Limbaugh should be convicted for money-laundering before facing any formal charges or having the opportunity to defend himself in a court of law before a jury of his peers? C'mon, Midnight... You're much too intelligent to allow your dislike of Rush Limbaugh to toss the cart before the horse here...
No...I am judging him (and convicting him) by his own words (http://www.fair.org/extra/0311/limbaugh-drugs.html) in regards to his drug use. He believes that drug-users should be jailed...soo...and since he's always right, :rolleyes: he should insist on doing a stretch. Of course, it's always easy to mouth off beliefs without truly believing in them. Now the shoe is on the other foot and in his mouth. He can either put up or shut up.

If nothing else, maybe that taste of leather or shoe polish will make him think twice.

[DsX Phoenix]

Such hatred of a moral and intelligent man is not necessary. You can't simply point and shout, "I don't like Rush Limbaugh! He needs to be in prison for a few years!" You've got to give the man a chance in court then a full trail in a court of law before labeling him a criminal.

From dictionary.com, criminal - One that has committed or been legally convicted of a crime.

From what I know, taking prescription drugs without a prescription is a crime.

moral - Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous

Lying about taking drugs, or deliberately misleading people is not a virtuous act.

Therefor, Rush is a criminal, but he is not moral.

[Hagrid442]

I know what Williamson and Bhodi are saying, Midnightsfire. He's innocent until proven guilty. And they're right. He shouldn't be convicted just yet.

However, if proven guilty, then he should be "sent up the river" since he obviously "made the choice" over and over to send his maid to find him more and more of those blue pills. And he used shady bank withdrawals to help pay for this addiction. I'll let a court decide if those were illegal.

Limbaugh is not a moral, upright person. Sounds to me he's a hypocrite.

[DsX Phoenix]

Just to defend Midnight, he is not saying Rush is guilty of the money laundering and should be sent away. He is saying that Rush is a drug addict (which is proven), and based on Rush's comments on his radio show about other drug addicts, he should be sent to jail to using drugs illegally.

[Hagrid442]

:agree: Ah yes... you are right, of course, DsX. Exactly, going by his statements, that's what should be done. However, since I'm more of a compassionate type (i.e. moderate-liberal), I think he should be extended something of a break. However, I don't think this is his first time going to rehab for drug use. Hmmmm... after a while, my compassion runs out.

I guess a little jail time wouldn't hurt after all.

[Adalbert Waffling]

MSX, Rush did not start pain-killers to get high. He started them for pain. The doctors prescribed them and Rush got addicted. It wasn't his fault he got addicted. He wanted more and more, but was to ashamed to let the public know about it and go to rehab. He is a major figure, which, many people respect and admire. He had to think "I can't let them down." You might think the respectful thing would be to come on out and say he had an addiction, but think. Example: Some little kid out on the playground is respected because he is smart. He makes an F on his test. When some other kid asks him what he made, some kid that's not as bright but got a B on the test, don't you think the smart little kid would feel ashamed and lie about it or not answer?
That's what happened to Rush.

[Auror Williamson]

Limbaugh Says Agents Seized Medical Records


WEST PALM BEACH, Fla. (Dec. 4) - Rush Limbaugh told listeners on his radio show Thursday that prosecutors in Palm Beach County have seized medical records from four of his doctors, but he called the investigation a "fishing expedition.''
Limbaugh, reading from a statement prepared by his attorney, denied any wrongdoing and said the medical records will clear him.

"What these records show is that Mr. Limbaugh suffered extreme pain and had legitimate reasons for taking pain medication,'' Limbaugh said, reading from the statement by attorney Roy Black. "Unfortunately, because of Mr. Limbaugh's prominence and well-known political opinions, he is being subjected to an invasion of privacy no citizen of this republic should endure.''

The statement also said: "Let us make our position clear: Rush Limbaugh is not part of a drug ring. He was never a target of a drug investigation.''

The conservative commentator was absent from his show for five weeks recently while spending time at a drug rehabilitation program because of his addiction to prescription painkillers.

Previously, law enforcement sources in Palm Beach County, where Limbaugh owns a $24 million oceanfront mansion, confirmed that a criminal investigation into a prescription drug ring involved Limbaugh. His former maid, Wilma Cline, reported supplying him with OxyContin and other painkillers.

Mike Edmondson, a spokesman for the state attorney's office, declined comment.

Last month, a law enforcement source who spoke on condition of anonymity said authorities also were investigating whether Limbaugh illegally funneled money to buy prescription painkillers. The radio host responded with a blanket denial of the allegations during his third day back on the air.

[Hagrid442]

Hmmmm....

I'd have to get more information before I judge. I don't like the old blowhard, but he deserves to be treated fairly.

[DsX Phoenix]

MSX, Rush did not start pain-killers to get high. He started them for pain. The doctors prescribed them and Rush got addicted. It wasn't his fault he got addicted. He wanted more and more, but was to ashamed to let the public know about it and go to rehab. He is a major figure, which, many people respect and admire. He had to think "I can't let them down." You might think the respectful thing would be to come on out and say he had an addiction, but think. Example: Some little kid out on the playground is respected because he is smart. He makes an F on his test. When some other kid asks him what he made, some kid that's not as bright but got a B on the test, don't you think the smart little kid would feel ashamed and lie about it or not answer?
That's what happened to Rush.

No one ever means to get addicted. And when you are addicted to medication, you take it to get high - which is what he did. He may have started taking them legitimately at first, but it doesn't matter.

And, the difference between your analogy is this: the kid is a child, who is not mature enough to face responsibility for his actions. Rush is an adult. If he wanted to keep people's respect, he should have faced up to his problem. And, while I can never prove this, I am sure that the reason he did not face up to his problem before wasn't to save face, but rather because he didn't want to stop. But, that's my belief, something that only Rush himself, and maybe a few of his friends know.

By the way...it's DsX, not MsX :D

[jasper]

No one ever means to get addicted. And when you are addicted to medication, you take it to get high - which is what he did. He may have started taking them legitimately at first, but it doesn't matter.


really? I didn't think addiction was always about getting high. Thise people who get addicted to nasal spray- that was only about getting to breather through your nose, was't it? And the longer they used it, the more they depended on it? And with some addiction, it's about avoiding the low, not seeking the high. With this pain thing, isn't it about blocking the pain?

[Hagrid442]

He was routinely taking way, way, way more than what would have been needed for pain. There are allegations that he illegally withdrew large sums of money to buy huge amounts of Oxycontin pills on the black market. It's pretty much established that he did send out his housekeeper to acquire these pills. Anyone that goes through all that trouble is addicted, not merely in pain.

[DsX Phoenix]

really? I didn't think addiction was always about getting high. Thise people who get addicted to nasal spray- that was only about getting to breather through your nose, was't it? And the longer they used it, the more they depended on it? And with some addiction, it's about avoiding the low, not seeking the high. With this pain thing, isn't it about blocking the pain?

When people become addicted to a drug, any drug, their body feels like they need the drug, even if they don't. So, while he may have started taking the pills at first for legitimate pain issues, once he was addicted, it wouldn't matter if he had the pain or not, he felt as though he still needed the pain medication.

And, this is what I refer to as a high. He got pleasure from taking these pills, because his body was "happy". This does not mean he saw hallucinations or felt like he was floating.

Also, the term "avoiding the low" is getting high. Someone has become so addicted to a drug that the only time they feel normal is when they are high. Thus, when someone is sobering up, the "low" effect sets in, and they feel they need more drugs to feel normal again, but this is still getting high.

[Celestine_Adams]

What they are saying that this comment was in poor taste, which it was.

Thank you, PrtVeela. Exactly what I was thinking.

I don't think the media's overreacting to it. I think it's repressed anger coming out against all the OTHER "racial" comments Rush has made. This is a guy who thinks that every minority who is successful did so because of affirmative action and every successful white guy made it on his own. Give me a break, please.

Yes, Rush is certainly entitled to say whatever the hell he wants under his First Amendment Rights, but said-attitude above, quite frankly, sucks. You want to forgo political correctness and call a spade a spade? Fine. But don't claim you're doing so while making obviously controversial comments that belie your true feelings.

And yes, his comments were racist. He basically said the media was overhyping a black quarterback just because he was black. He said nothing about McNabb's achievements in the NFL because, being a black guy, he obviously thought they were "irrelevant". And would he have said the same about a white quarterback being overhyped by the media? I think not.

Furthermore, I think people were also disgusted by the sheer stupidity of it all. Why the hell was Rush hired in the first place? He had no previous experience in sports commentary and ESPN *HAD* to know the man was bound to show his foot-in-mouth disease symptoms eventually...did they think this would raise ratings (a la MSNBC and Michael Savage)? Good grief! About the only thing he did right was quitting the position he'd proven so unfit for.

[Celestine_Adams]

MSX, Rush did not start pain-killers to get high. He started them for pain. The doctors prescribed them and Rush got addicted. It wasn't his fault he got addicted. He wanted more and more, but was to ashamed to let the public know about it and go to rehab. He is a major figure, which, many people respect and admire. He had to think "I can't let them down." You might think the respectful thing would be to come on out and say he had an addiction, but think. Example: Some little kid out on the playground is respected because he is smart. He makes an F on his test. When some other kid asks him what he made, some kid that's not as bright but got a B on the test, don't you think the smart little kid would feel ashamed and lie about it or not answer?
That's what happened to Rush.

This is ridiculous. The fact that he started them for pain doesn't matter. This is how a *lot* of drug abusers begin -- the very same drug abusers that Limbaugh came down so hard on. The fact that he's a public figure means that he should at least practice what he preaches, which in this case, is compassion for drug users.

As for the kid metaphor, I certainly hope you'd teach your kid to tell the truth instead of lying to impress little minds. Whatever the case, lying about your grades simply does not compare to A) lying about your drug use, B) sending your employees out to get said drugs and verbally abusing them when they refuse to do so, C) jumping from doctor to doctor in order to obtain said narcotics, and D) using illegal funds to purchase them. No matter how you look at it, Rush is in hot water and has a *LOT* of explaining to do.

[Hagrid442]

Celestine, dear, don't double post. Edit your post if you have something to add.

I don't want you getting in trouble. :)

[Celestine_Adams]

Celestine, dear, don't double post. Edit your post if you have something to add.

I don't want you getting in trouble. :)

Um, I was responding to two different quotes. Surely, that's allowed....?
:huh:

[DsX Phoenix]

Well, no, it's really not allowed. One way to reply to two different posts is by replying to one, then go to reply to the other, but instead of posting your reply and the quote, simply copy it all, and then edit your first post, and paste it in there. Yes, it is a lot of hassle, but it does keep the forums a little bit neater.

If you have anymore questions about the forum rules, just PM me, or one of the mods, and any of us would be glad to help you out.

Thank you, PrtVeela. Exactly what I was thinking.
And yes, his comments were racist. He basically said the media was overhyping a black quarterback just because he was black. He said nothing about McNabb's achievements in the NFL because, being a black guy, he obviously thought they were "irrelevant". And would he have said the same about a white quarterback being overhyped by the media? I think not.

Furthermore, I think people were also disgusted by the sheer stupidity of it all. Why the hell was Rush hired in the first place? He had no previous experience in sports commentary and ESPN *HAD* to know the man was bound to show his foot-in-mouth disease symptoms eventually...did they think this would raise ratings (a la MSNBC and Michael Savage)? Good grief! About the only thing he did right was quitting the position he'd proven so unfit for.

On to this...while his comments were racially motivated, I do not think he believed McNabb's achievements were irrelevant because he was black. I think that Rush believed McNabb was no better than average, but, because he is black, the media over-represented him, in order to show the NFL in a more, "multi-ethnic" league. Which I think could be a good point (I personally don't really believe it, but I also do think McNabb is overrated), but it was still a stupid comment to make, and one in poor taste, as was said.

Also, bringing in Rush did raise ratings, which indeed was what ESPN was trying to do. Their ratings rose significantly, in fact, it is my understanding.

[DrummerboyDT]

Here are my quick opinions.

Quarterback. Bret Farve, took painkillers for his injury because he was in so much pain. Soon he wound up overdosing. I don't think Rush or Bret were purposely looking to become addicted. If they really wanted to have drugs, they could both afford to find some.

In regards to the NFL player. Sometimes the majority hires people of different races to avoid confrontation. I don't think he's racist because I've read that he likes Jerome Bettis and some other players of different race.

Sometimes the media likes to hurt people. That's where I step in.

Another deep thought of the day:
As the light changed from red to green to yellow and back to red again, I sat there thinking about life. Was it nothing more than a bunch of honking and yelling? Sometimes it seemed that way.

[Auror Williamson]

Judge Opens Limbaugh's Medical Records

Prosecutors Seek Evidence of Possible 'Doctor Shopping'


Dec. 23) -- Prosecutors can examine Rush Limbaugh's medical records to determine whether he should be charged with ''doctor shopping'' for prescription painkillers, a judge ruled Tuesday.

Palm Beach Circuit Judge Jeffrey A. Winikoff denied the conservative commentator's request to keep the records sealed.

Limbaugh's attorneys had argued that the seizure of the records from doctors in Florida and California violated the radio host's privacy. Investigators had obtained the records last month after discovering that Limbaugh received more than 2,000 painkillers, prescribed by four doctors, at a pharmacy near his $24 million Palm Beach mansion.

Doctor shopping refers to looking for a doctor willing to prescribe drugs illegally, or getting prescriptions for a single drug from more than one doctor at the same time.

The Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office began investigating Limbaugh last year, after his former maid told them she had been supplying him prescription painkillers for years.

Limbaugh recently admitted his addiction, stemming from severe back pain, and took a five-week leave from his afternoon radio show to enter a rehabilitation program. He returned to the show in mid-November.

Roy Black, Limbaugh's lawyer, said his client suffered from a degenerative disc disease with ''pain so great at one point doctors thought he had bone cancer,'' and that Limbaugh chose to take addictive painkillers rather than have surgery.

Surgery would have meant doctors would have gone through Limbaugh's throat to operate on his spine, which could threaten his career as a commentator, Black said during a Monday hearing.

Limbaugh's former maid, Wilma Cline, learned of his addiction and threatened to sell the story to The National Enquirer. She and her husband, David Cline, demanded millions and were ''paid substantial amounts of money,'' the lawyer said.

Limbaugh allegedly withdrew cash 30 to 40 times at amounts just under the $10,000 limit that requires a bank to report the transaction to the federal government.

The action drew suspicion because it can be a federal crime to structure financial transactions below the $10,000 limit.

Black said Limbaugh paid money to the Clines because they were blackmailing him - not because he was laundering money.

He said Limbaugh could not complain to authorities about the maid's demand because they would use the information against him, though the maid and her husband eventually went public anyway.

Ed Shohat, the attorney for the Clines, denied Black's allegation.

''Rush Limbaugh confessed and admitted that he bought the pills. ... I know of no facts that my clients demanded money from Rush Limbaugh in any way,'' he said.

[Kaonashi]

No way he was getting all of those pills legally without doctor shopping or having a very unscrupulous doc. Poor Rush. He's being treated just like any other drug addict off the streets...*sniff*

[Tarot Dude]

The drugs rush used were perfectly legal. The way he was using them was perfectly legal. There was nothing illegal he did. If he was in Mexico, that is. Or the Netherlands, India, any Southern Pacific Islands, anywhere more than 10 miles off the coast of any country, and many other places.

Say, why are opiates illegal w/o a perscription, anyways?

I'll just stop there. I don't want people harrassing me with private messages.

Also, the comment he made was targeted towards one person, (since i dont like football to any degree whatsoever, i dont nkow who) johnothan mcnabb?? if thats who he was, then thta's who he was talking about. He has a right to say what he said. He said soemthign that was not racist. was it true? I don't care.

[Tarot Dude]

One last thing...

Oxy Contin is an opiate that replicates
Oxytocin, the NATURAL chemical made in EVERY human being, released during sexual release.

Say, why are opiates illegal if all they do is basically replicate sexual release?

And again, I shall stop there so no one harrasses me.

The reason why rush was addicted to them was that it made him comfortably numb. it had nothing to do with the physical action of swallowing the pills.

[jasper]

I thought I heard him say he was getting more scrutiny because of who he is- that they were looking into medical records that would normally be private, and this was only motivated by his celebrity and his issue positions and things of that nature.

Huh? I thought it sounded more like he was using his celebrity to ask for a pass to get less scrutiny than others might get.

[Kaonashi]

Looking into someone's medical records is completely legal if one is busted abusing perscription drugs. If proven that a doctor gives people perscriptions that are more than what they should be given, they could lose their license for that. For certain perscriptions (like Adderall, Dexedrin, Oxycontin, etc) because of people's tendencies to abuse them, close records are kept. So if you have a legit perscription for say...60 adderall pills from your doctor that you have filled at Walgreens and they find out that you also had a script filled at CVS for 60 pills, and Oscos for 60 pills...all in the same month by the same doctor, that proves that a) doctor is crooked and needs to be dealt with or b) you forged his sig and got your hands on blank script forms, which means that you have to be dealt with. Also, if you have multiple doctors who don't know anything about each other and they are ALL giving you the same perscription and you are paying cash at the differnt pharmacies so it won't show up on your insurance (something not difficult to do in Rush's shoes since he has money to shell out) that points to you having a big-time problem with said substance and you're deliberately working the system to get your drug on. They are not treating Rush any differently than anyone else under the circumstances.

[lupinlover]

I didn't find Rush Limbaugh's statements to be racist or morally wrong. He was hired by ESPN to be a sports commentator, and he did his job; he opined on the quality of an athlete's performance. He shouldn't have been fired.

By the way, coming from Philly (and a huge Eagles fan) Donovan McNabb was not doing well in the first few games. If you know how Philly fans are, the city wasn't thrilled either with his performance in the beginning of the season. Hey, we're not the loyal fans who will stick by the team through the bad times, we'll boo you off the field.

[Kaonashi]

He did more than just give a comment on someone's performance. If someone's doing a sucky job as a quarterback, that's all it should be...just someone doing a sucky job. Their nationality, race, or creed should have nothing to do with it. If Rush had left it at that, that would have been one thing. He mistakenly thought that ESPN was an extension of his show. It was uncalled for.

[Auror Williamson]

Limbaugh Targeted When Others Are Not (http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/3/162755.shtml)

Data unearthed by the Palm Beach Post supports the conclusion made by Rush Limbaugh and his attorney, Roy Black, that the famed talk show host is being targeted by local prosecutors for political reasons.
According to Saturday's Post, not one case has been fully prosecuted for doctor-shopping related to presciption drugs in the past five years.

The Post combed through records in the County's Clerk of Courts Office.

The investigation of similar cases "revealed only one case [of alleged 'doctor-shopping'] in the past five years in which Palm Beach County prosecutors charged a defendant with illegally acquiring overlapping prescriptions. And that case, which involved entirely different circumstances, was dropped because the defendant, who was charged because he wouldn't cooperate with prosecutors in a related matter, died."

The Post's independent inquiry is good news for Rush Limbaugh.

In October, Rush admitted to a prescription drug addiction that began as a result of a surgical procedure he had in the late 1990s. After acknowledging his addiction, Rush entered a rehab facility in Arizona and remains under medical treatment, though he returned to the airwaves in November.

At first, it appeared the local state prosecutor in Palm Beach County, state's attorney Barry Krischer, would treat Limbaugh as others who had a prescription drug addiction, but that soom changed after an avalanche of media attention fell upon the conservative radio host.

Soon after, the prosecution began what Limbaugh called a "fishing expedition" -- subpoeaning his medical and financial records to apparently bolster a case against the radio star.

Limbaugh and his attorney Roy Black went public with complaints that he was a target of a political witchhunt.

"The Post's research confirms what we have been saying all along," Black said in a written statement. "Rush Limbaugh has been singled out for special prosecution because of who he is. We believe the state attorney's office is applying a double standard."

Angry Limbaugh

Echoing Black, an angry Limbaugh told his listeners in a December 23 broadcast, "The Democrats in this country still cannot defeat me in the arena of political ideas, and so now they are trying to do so in the court of public opinion and the legal system. I guess it's payback time. And since I'm not running for office, can't get to me that way. They're going to seek the occasion of this event in my life to see, to find out if they can do any damage."

Press accounts have noted that state's attorney Krischer is a Democrat and former associate of Janet Reno, the one-time state's attorney in Miami.

According to the Post, doctor-shopping is a third-degree felony punishable by up to five years in prison. It requires that the defendant be shown to have conned at least two doctors into prescribing the same controlled substance in a 30-day period.

The paper reported that finding similar cases in the records was anything but easy. Even Krischer's office said it could not provide a list of previous cases because its database can't be searched for that specific crime.

The Post adds, "Records from a pharmacy near Limbaugh's $24 million Palm Beach mansion showed the radio show host obtained more than 2,000 pain and anti-anxiety pills in a five-month period in 2003 from four doctors."

But Black has countered that the four doctors who records concerning Limbaugh were seized by Krischer's office, were all treating him for different complaints including severe and intractable back pain and his hearing loss, which was corrected by implant surgery.

Doctors From Same Office

The Post reported that at a court hearing Dec. 22, Black revealed that Limbaugh got pills from doctors in the same office and was being treated for a spinal condition as well as for ear surgery.

"This was legitimate treatment by legitimate physicians for major medical reasons," Black said.

Even a local judge questions the possibility of the charge being filed. County Judge Nelson Bailey told the Post that doctor shopping is prevalent among the case histories of addicts who show up in front of him in drug court. But, he said, such defendants usually are charged with other drug crimes -- such as possession.

"I don't see that as a charge. I see the end product of the doctor shopping," Nelson said. "I don't see anybody out there trying to prosecute those types of cases. We can't even get the state legislature to pass a statute to monitor multiple pharmacies in order to catch people who doctor-shop."

The Post search of county court records revealed the case of the late Michael Schlosman of West Palm Beach, who died. Schlosman, the paper recalled, received painkillers from one of the same doctors who treated Limbaugh. The case never went to trial because Schlosman died.

Schlosman's lawyer agreed with Judge Nelson that doctor-shopping charges are rare.

Single Use of Statute

"I think that was the only time the statute had been used -- that is what I was told -- and I haven't heard of any cases since then," said defense attorney John Tierney.

Schlosman's ex-wife, Jamie Massey, died of an overdose after being prescribed more than 20,000 prescription pills in a three-month period from West Palm Beach psychiatrist Dr. George Kubski. The post reported that Kubski was sentenced to a year in jail for manslaughter by culpable negligence.

Significantly Schlosman was only charged after failing to give any helpful information in the case against Kubski, Tierney said.

The only other cases of doctor shopping the Post unearthed was one transferred from St. Lucie County this year, while another was transferred from Martin County, according to records.

According to the Post, Krischer has said his office has scrupulously protected Limbaugh's rights.

"Whether Mr. Limbaugh is subject to prosecution for any crimes is still under investigation. Mr. Limbaugh is presumed innocent at this time," Krischer said, after it became public that investigators seized the syndicated radio star's medical records in late November.

[Hagrid442]

Hmmm... if that's true, that's not right. No matter what I think of Limbaugh, he deserves fair treatment.

But, seeing as that article came from Newsmax, I'm a bit skeptical....

[Kaonashi]

Well, doctor shopping IS illegal; it doesn't matter whether or not they haven't prosecuted a lot of cases under the law. If he is innocent of this, it's easy enough to prove; he should just let them open the records, and then laugh when the allegations are unfounded if he has nothing to hide. His reluctance tells me that maybe there is something.

[Flagg]

Charge in Limbaugh drug case rarely used, court records show

SEE RUSH SQUIRM! SQUIRM, RUSH, SQUIRM!

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/content/auto/epaper/editions/saturday/news_f36f5467153060d100b9.html[HTML]

Charge in Limbaugh drug case rarely used, court records show


By John Pacenti, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Saturday, January 3, 2004



WEST PALM BEACH -- Radio commentator Rush Limbaugh says prosecutors are unfairly targeting him with a prescription fraud charge known as "doctor shopping" because he is a famous political conservative.

In fact, a records search by the Clerk of Courts Office revealed only one case in the past five years in which Palm Beach County prosecutors charged a defendant with illegally acquiring overlapping prescriptions.

That case never went to trial because the defendant, Michael Schlosman of West Palm Beach, died. Schlosman received painkillers from one of the same doctors who treated Limbaugh.

<snip>

One of the doctors who prescribed the powerful and addictive painkiller OxyContin to Schlosman was Dr. Lawrence Deziel, according to court records.
Deziel also prescribed Limbaugh hundreds of painkillers, including OxyContin and Norco, a combination of acetaminophen (Tylenol) and hydrocodone, according to a Nov. 25 search warrant.
<snip>

But Tierney doesn't believe Limbaugh is being singled out.

"The statute exists," Tierney said. "The legislature enacted it for a reason."




Rush is a rare bird. Who else has the money to buy 20,000 pills?


Who else can afford to go to so many different doctors?

Upper class drug dealers and people like Rush.

Duh!

Why's the media ingnoring this obvious fact.


The Law is The Law is The Law, no exceptions, right El Rushbo?


You did the crime...

[Hagrid442]

The Philadelphia Inquirer (a real newspaper! not a tabloid!) (http://www.philly.com/multimedia/philly/news/rant10.pdf) has a hilarious little graphic comparing Rush and McNabb from then to now.

*WARNING* It's a PDF file, so you'll need Acrobat to view it.

[Hagrid442]

Go here (http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/to_sao.guest.html) to offer feedback on Rush's trial, and what his sentencing should be if found guilty. Here's what I wrote:

I am left of center, however, I hope Rush Limbaugh gets a fair trial. I do not want lies spread just to get him put in jail. If he is innocent, then I want him exonerated. If guilty, his sentence should be whatever sentence is given to other people for these crimes. He should not get special treatment. That might mean years in prison. So be it! If it were up to me, the typical sentencing would be more lenient. However, Rush himself advocates tough sentencing. It's only fair that Rush does the same time he believes everyone else should do. To do any less would be hypocritical.

[Wab]

Rush deserves as much sympathy as he had for addicts before he was outed...none.

[Auror Williamson]

Limbaugh attorneys unearth precedent (http://palmbeachpost.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Limbaugh+attorneys+unearth+precedent&expire=&urlID=9653923&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.palmbeachpost.com%2Flocalnews%2Fcontent%2Fauto%2Fepaper%2Feditions%2Ffriday%2Flocal_news_04a5d6dc747e80660026.html&partnerID=491)


WEST PALM BEACH -- Rush Limbaugh's lawyers pulled a "gotcha!" out of their hat Thursday, pointing an appeals court to one of its own decisions forbidding the seizure of medical information without due process.

Attorneys for the conservative talk-show icon wrote in a brief before the 4th District Court of Appeal that the same court ruled two years ago that a DUI suspects' blood test could not be used in a criminal case against him because a state consent law had not been followed.

Prosecutors have argued before the court that the federal Fourth Amendment guaranteed their right to seize Limbaugh's records and that they did not have to follow state law procedures.

Prosecutors made that same argument in the DUI case -- and were flatly rejected, wrote Limbaugh's attorneys Roy Black and Jackie Perczek in Thursday's response. Prosecutors omitted that fact in their current argument before the appeals court, Limbaugh's attorneys wrote.

Prosecutors seized Limbaugh's medical records from four doctors late last year, saying they had valid reason to believe Limbaugh had "doctor-shopped." Doctor shopping -- seeking overlapping prescriptions for drugs from multiple doctors -- is a third-degree felony in Florida.

The office of State Attorney Barry Krischer maintains that it has scrupulously protected Limbaugh's rights, including not viewing his seized medical records until a judge gave permission to do so. In those medical records and other pharmacy records is evidence to support at least 10 counts of doctor-shopping, prosecutors have said.

The appeals court eventually will rule whether Krischer's office can use the medical records. One of Limbaugh's most unlikely allies, the ACLU, and doctors groups have joined Limbaugh in the fight to keep them private.

On his radio show Thursday, Limbaugh, saying he had shown restraint from doing so for five months, poked fun at Krischer. Limbaugh though, has constantly complained on his show that the investigation is a political witch-hunt conducted by Krischer, a Democrat.

"Let him charge me with making fun of him," Limbaugh said on his show. "I'm sure he can find a statute."

A spokesman for the state attorney's office, Mike Edmondson, declined comment. "We don't respond to what suspects say," Edmondson said.

[Sineed]

I work in Corrections health care, and a few months ago, I phoned American corrections (state level; I'm not saying what state), and the person who talked to me said, "We have over 2 million people incarcerated in this country. It's a disgrace."

As an aside, I'd like to say, whenever I have to phone the US as a part of my job, Americans on the whole have been congenial, helpful, and just plain nice. (The one exception was Florida. They were kinda shirty with me. But they are probably pretty sick of Canadians in Florida.)

Anyway, according to some statistics that crossed my desk, the US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world, about 5 to 6 times higher than any other industrialized nation. The reason for this? There's the "Three strikes you're out," and "Zero Tolerance" laws, but it's mostly the war on drugs. The reason the US incarcerates so many people for what is basically a medical problem? People like Rush Limbaugh.

I liked seeing Rush getting humiliated in the media as much as the next person, but even a lefty like me has to concede that he should get treatment rather than incarceration. And all the street addicts who can't afford Rush's lawyers deserve the same.

Incidently, Oxycontin has nothing to do with oxytocin. But it's wickedly addictive. Maybe Rush needs methadone to help get himself cleaned up.