Greek historical allusion to future house unity?

[morgan le fay]

mods, as always, i performed a search and didn't find anything i was looking for, but if you find something i didnt feel free to close/merge. thanks! :)

in our humanities class today, we began learning about early arcaic greece.......

2 things struck me:

1. the athenian leader pisistratus created 4 tribes in his city state. each tribe gradually became factionalist, meaning that they each became very clique-ish and exclusive in terms of who was truly a member of each tribe and there was a lot of competition and dissention between certain tribes.
....... after pisistratus's death, a new leader, cleisthenes, decided to put an end to the separation and he made 10 tribes, forcing each group to find others who had more in common with them. it brought about cooperation and athens had its first democracy.

2. Draco was the first tyrant of Athens. he was known for his severe punishments and unrelenting cruelty and that is where the term "draconian" comes from.

now, i thought it was interesting that there are 4 houses and that they are quite separate and that the sorting hat and DD have stressed that all the houses need to come together. but i dont know..... 10 houses would be a lot.... but maybe 10 groups will be dedicated to the vanquishing of the dark lord after DD dies (if he does die in book 6, that is)?? i dont know :rolleyes: . and that draco stuff just adds to his characterization.........

what do you guys think???? :whistle:

[silver ink pot]

Great Post! And a great idea for a thread - I'm going to go searching for these Ancient Greeks.

Obviously, the Draco connection makes perfect sense.

What fascinates me is the idea of making 4 groups into 10. I suppose that would make smaller groups who would be more dependent on eachother. I wonder how the dormitory situation would be solved? Something has to happen though, if the Slytherins are to have any part in the school at all!

It all comes back to the question that has to be resolved in the next two books. What happens to the children of the Death Eaters, and the Slytherins who are friends and family of Death Eaters? They are nasty to all the other houses, and Slytherin was the only house without a member in the DA. Snape has to play a part in this, because he is in the Order, yet he is in charge of Slytherin. How tricky is that?

In my heart, I truly hope that Harry makes at least one Slytherin friend. Please, JKR, Snape can't be the only Slytherin who doesn't want to kill Harry!

[morgan le fay]

Great Post! And a great idea for a thread - I'm going to go searching for these Ancient Greeks.

thanks! :D


What fascinates me is the idea of making 4 groups into 10. I suppose that would make smaller groups who would be more dependent on eachother. I wonder how the dormitory situation would be solved? Something has to happen though, if the Slytherins are to have any part in the school at all!

well, i know, the house thing would be crazy..... the possibility that i was pondering is that maybe the houses arent necessarily disbanded, but students from every house are put into one of another 10 groups. not only would ppl from diff houses be interacting in the 10 new groups but then ppl from different groups would be interacting in the house system..... i really have no idea how i was thinking it would work, thats why i asked u guys lol. but it just seems like such a similar situation. under pisistratus, the athenians were beginning to prosper and they were having good times. then things got a little rocky, pisistratus died, and they got a new guy, who made a lot of political reforms and put athens back on track. so what if DD dies and a new headmaster makes them all come together? like the beatles song! :agree:

also, i think its worth mentioning that in greece, the ultimate ambition was to be an active and involved member of your community or city-state because it promoted the common good as well as a lot of unity; to be doing something positive, making some sort of contribution. to just sit back and complain labeled you as an idiot, and you were then eligible to be elected OUT of the city because of your negative influence!

In my heart, I truly hope that Harry makes at least one Slytherin friend. Please, JKR, Snape can't be the only Slytherin who doesn't want to kill Harry!

:lol: i hope so too

[NiCk RiDdLe]

it is all possible. the dd dieing thing... i don't think so. it's going to ruin everything. have no time ta post dat is y dis is short. will post 2morrow.

[Liselle]

I was thinking earlier about something like this alright, with the sorting hats warning can we suppose that the students from the different houses need to "unite" so to speak and avoid dischord and disharmony....

our main characters (in my view) after the ootp are
*Gryffindor: Harry, Ron, Hermionie, Ginny and Neville
*Ravenclaw: Luna and Cho
*Slytherin: Draco
*Hufflepuff:???

I think that we need to be introduced to a major hufflepuff character and that one or two students from each house will have some sort of alliance....if this means the breaking of the houses as we know it from 4 to 10 then so be it!

(what are the chances of a house called after dd?!)

Liselle

[dianaP]

exelent tread...

I think if they were 2 split up in 10 groups the houses in general wouldnt be banned, maybe a new house will be added so one can have 2 groups in every house.

as for DD, I hope he doesnt die.. but thats just wishfull hoping, he's eighter going to die before the end of 7 of he's going to step back as headmaster.( if thats possible )

As for Slytherin I dont think they are all "bad" but if any of them can get friends with harry, I dont know..

[EndlessDreamer]

I like this post especially cuse i'm going out as a Greek Goddess for Halloween lol.

Anyways, maybe for the 4 to 10 thing they wont break up the houses, but just have like rotating groups of people on weekends you have to sit with and do activities with to meet ppl from other houses, and years.

Just a thought.

[HannahStarr]

Good point, morgan le fay. I learned about Draco and Pisistratus a few weeks ago in my World History class, but nothing was mentioned about those tribes.

Liselle: for Hufflepuff, don't forget Ernie MacMillan and Justin Finch-Fletchly and Hannah Abbot! :D And for Ravenclaw, Cho should be in there, too.

[Liselle]

Liselle: for Hufflepuff, don't forget Ernie MacMillan and Justin Finch-Fletchly and Hannah Abbot! And for Ravenclaw, Cho should be in there, too.
Thanks Hannahstar, I meant to put Cho in but I for some reason forgot...woops! I don't know how much more of her though we will see in the last two books.....I think that the Hufflepuffs mentioned their characters need to be developed a bit more than they have been...we don't know too much about them, thats just my feeling!

Liselle

[morgan le fay]

house unity as called for by the sorting hat does not necessarily mean that all the houses will need to be dismembered. if my prediction comes to life in the books, then i think that ppl from each house will come together in 10 different groups, each with a different purpose for putting an end to the darklord. or maybe there will just be 10 pivotal characters from every house who help harry in his quest?

i just think that the similarities between the athens and hogwarts community are striking. and i have been a believer that DD will die in book 6, even before i learned about pisistratus.

[roberto]

Quality thread, it could be the case that people in Slytherin say they support LV, but when his time of terror is at its zenith (Book 7), they could shy away, like the Blacks.

Another example from Greek history would be when the Greek city-states joined together to fight the Persians. While Sparta and Athens hated each other, they realized there was a greater threat about to invade their homeland, and they had to band together or they would all fall.

[marrapessa]

But the three houses did come together, in "Dumbledore's Army". They were all friends and kept talking to each other, etc, visiting at the others tables and such. But as always, Slytherin isn't included. I think that if Harry "kills" LV, the man underneath, Tom Riddle, will be responsible for Slytherin house becoming more sociable and involved, united with the others. Because Tom is Slytherin's decendant and he can finish what was begun, when Slytherin left, he could be like Slytherin returning and patch things up. yeah.
OH and don't forget Susan Bones!! from hufflepuff she is.

[vagos]

Quality thread, it could be the case that people in Slytherin say they support LV, but when his time of terror is at its zenith (Book 7), they could shy away, like the Blacks.

Another example from Greek history would be when the Greek city-states joined together to fight the Persians. While Sparta and Athens hated each other, they realized there was a greater threat about to invade their homeland, and they had to band together or they would all fall.
Yeah,but after that there were the Peloponnessean war between Athens,Sparta and the allies of each...would that mean that after the threat of Voldemort Gryffindor and Slytherin would hate each other even more?

[EndlessDreamer]

If Slytherin and Gryfinndor hated each other even more, I think Hogwarts would cease to exist, too much animosity

[hesdead-dealwithit]

If Slytherin and Gryfinndor hated each other even more, I think Hogwarts would cease to exist, too much animosity
Umm, can they hate each other more?

[Katy Kedevra]

Interesting thread...

For a Slytherin student to befriend Harry, it could be the kid from the Care of Magical Creatures class who could see Thestrals. He has seen death, although we don't know how it came to be... whether the person was murdered or an accident killed them or something like that, and maybe that would give him a sense of how valuable life is and how much it can hurt when someone close to you dies. Maybe then he would be against Voldemort and sort of go further away from the Slytherins (those who support the Dark Lord) and end up becoming friends with Harry. As we learned in the fifth book, it's never too late to introduce new characters and develop their personalities enormously *cough*Luna*cough*

Anyway, I was thinking that maybe this whole thing might go with ten people who will unite their powers to help stop the threat of being overtaken by a huge power (Voldemort) and a new leader replacing an old one (Harry replacing Dumbledore). Dumbledore is the leader in the fight against Voldemort now but, as I believe he will die during the seventh book, Harry would be the next leader in the fight against Voldemort. The four houses could mean that the ten people who do unite may in a way cause the unification of Hogwarts to fight the battle. It doesn't necessarily have to be all kids though. For example, Snape could be one of the ten.

[NiCk RiDdLe]

We really don't know much about any Hufflepuffs. Maybe in the end they play a major role but who knows. Its sort of obivious that Draco is going to play a big part. Definitely Nevile too. I hope he comes out of his shell if you know what I mean. I hope he gets his own wand since he's using his fathers at the time. Maybe it's not the right wand and for his full potential to come out he needs his own special wand. It's very possible since everyone is made for one wand. Imagine how Harry would be with any other wand.

[Katy Kedevra]

Definitely Nevile too. I hope he comes out of his shell if you know what I mean. I hope he gets his own wand since he's using his fathers at the time. Maybe it's not the right wand and for his full potential to come out he needs his own special wand. It's very possible since everyone is made for one wand. Imagine how Harry would be with any other wand.
He will get his own wand next year unless he stays wandless because his father's wand broke at the DoM.

[EndlessDreamer]

But what if someones old wand broke? they would get another one. That wand would still choose them.

[Katy Kedevra]

But what if someones old wand broke? they would get another one. That wand would still choose them.
Yes, but in Neville's case the wand never chose him -- it chose his father.
One thing I don't completely get is how no two wands will ever be the same. Let's say you use the same tree's wood and a hair or feather or whatever from the same creature, wouldn't that be a fairly close replicate? Maybe the fact that it would have different marks in different areas, well who knows but wouldn't it give a close enough wand that it would have the exact same powers and so someone who's wand broke could replace it and wouldn't have to get used to a different wand? :whistle:

[Tirwen Lupin]

Very interesting theory! For the school to be divided into ten groups, it would be interesting to see some sort of teams developed, each with a certain contribution to fighting the Dark Lord. Might they specialize in particular subjects? I'll need to check to see how many have been mentioned so far.
For a Slytherin student to befriend Harry, it could be the kid from the Care of Magical Creatures class who could see Thestrals.
That's a possibility, but if I remember right, he's the son of a Death Eater. He seemed to be hanging out quite a bit with Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle (chapter 26). I dont' know if it explicitly says that the boy who saw thestrals and Nott was the same person, but they're both described as "weedy". I have a hunch that he'll become important, and he might become a friend of Harry's, but I'm not so sure...
Or there might be a new student introduced, the way Luna was. It might be a Slytherin that has so far been mentioned only in passing, or not at all. But I really would like there to be one. It's a bit unrealistic for them all to be evil.

[Katy Kedevra]

That's a possibility, but if I remember right, he's the son of a Death Eater. He seemed to be hanging out quite a bit with Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle (chapter 26). I dont' know if it explicitly says that the boy who saw thestrals and Nott was the same person, but they're both described as "weedy". I have a hunch that he'll become important, and he might become a friend of Harry's, but I'm not so sure...
Or there might be a new student introduced, the way Luna was. It might be a Slytherin that has so far been mentioned only in passing, or not at all. But I really would like there to be one. It's a bit unrealistic for them all to be evil.
But then wouldn't it mention that the boy in the library was 'the Slytherin who could see Thestrals" and then have Hermione whisper that he's Nott?

About them all being evil, I can hardly see that being possible either. Just because you'll do whatever it takes to reach your goal (i.e. you're very ambitious) doesn't mean you're evil but could place you in Slytherin... Come to think of it, why wasn't Percy in Slytherin? He would have done well in Slytherin (Katy says in a creepy voice immatating the talking hat :elaugh: )

[EndlessDreamer]

I know Neville's wand never chose him, just like Ron's first wand never chose him either, but even if a choosing wand did get broken then another new wand could match with that person again.

[Liselle]

I know Neville's wand never chose him, just like Ron's first wand never chose him either, but even if a choosing wand did get broken then another new wand could match with that person again.
think our Anti-hero is getting a new wand for himself, hopefully his gran won't be too mad! I'd love to see more of Neville especially as he was so kick-*** in the ootp!

Liselle

[KeyserSoze]

While the idea of 10 groups is intriguing, it should be remembered, per Dumbledore's speech at the end of GoF, that one of Voldemort's greatest strengths is to spread disunity or something along those lines, I don't have the book with me for the exact quote. While 10 groups formed a new democracy in Athens, the splitting into 10 groups could be another way for Voldemort to spread disharmony.

[EndlessDreamer]

aww Neville! He has to get a new wand, its required for Hoggy's. *sigh* I think gran will have been pretty perturbed though

[morgan le fay]

KeyserSoze, that is a good point. however, i was pondering not the disbandment of the houses but the creation of 10 groups which bring together ppl from every house in the quest to vanquish the dark lord. but alas, it seems to be a far fetched idea. :sigh: anyway, all u ppl talking on neville and his wand, i believe there is a thread for that, as well as for the evolution of neville, if u just do a search. :D

[Tirwen Lupin]

i was pondering not the disbandment of the houses but the creation of 10 groups which bring together ppl from every house in the quest to vanquish the dark lord. but alas, it seems to be a far fetched idea.
Not so fast.
Subjects taught at Hogwarts as best as I can remember:
1) Transfiguration
2) Charms
3) Care of Magical Creatures
4) DADA
5) Potions
6) Herbology
7) Arithmancy
8) Diviniation
9) History of Magic
10) Astronomy

I may have missed some, but that's not quite the point.
The classes in each subject might be reformed, with people from each house in them. There's already some classes with two houses in them, but this would be different. It might be done in such a way that the students would have to work together in the class. Not just split into two groups. That way, they'd make friends with members of other houses, while still having friends in their own house. It might not really be for fighting Voldemort, but it would foster a greater unity between all four houses, since students on their own might not be so keen on doing so. The DA was something like this, only Slytherin was left out. But that was because they weren't asked; Hermione didn't trust them.
I have to say that Slytherins, from the qualities valued in the house (amibiton, slyness, slef-preservation, purity of blood) have the largest likelihood for nasty personalities and potential for evil, but there must be some decent ones on there. One that could befriend Harry.
I don't see the animosity with Draco going away any time soon, but that doesn't mean that Harry couldn't meet a good Slytherin.

[EndlessDreamer]

I think that that theory with the 10 classes and having to work with other houses makes a lot of sense and could totally work!

[Katy Kedevra]

Not so fast.
Subjects taught at Hogwarts as best as I can remember:
1) Transfiguration
2) Charms
3) Care of Magical Creatures
4) DADA
5) Potions
6) Herbology
7) Arithmancy
8) Diviniation
9) History of Magic
10) Astronomy

I may have missed some, but that's not quite the point.
The classes in each subject might be reformed, with people from each house in them. There's already some classes with two houses in them, but this would be different. It might be done in such a way that the students would have to work together in the class. Not just split into two groups. That way, they'd make friends with members of other houses, while still having friends in their own house. It might not really be for fighting Voldemort, but it would foster a greater unity between all four houses, since students on their own might not be so keen on doing so. The DA was something like this, only Slytherin was left out. But that was because they weren't asked; Hermione didn't trust them.
I have to say that Slytherins, from the qualities valued in the house (amibiton, slyness, slef-preservation, purity of blood) have the largest likelihood for nasty personalities and potential for evil, but there must be some decent ones on there. One that could befriend Harry.
I don't see the animosity with Draco going away any time soon, but that doesn't mean that Harry couldn't meet a good Slytherin.
There's also Runes and probably others too. But I think that something will happen in the school next year that will at least start the unification of every house, not saying that the school will be totally unified by the end of book six but that it will set up for unification in book seven. Of course most likely Draco'll stay his usual self in the next book unless an old theory of mine comes true... but I'm not going to get into that. ;)

[chop]

Not so fast.
Subjects taught at Hogwarts as best as I can remember:
1) Transfiguration
2) Charms
3) Care of Magical Creatures
4) DADA
5) Potions
6) Herbology
7) Arithmancy
8) Diviniation
9) History of Magic
10) Astronomy

I may have missed some, but that's not quite the point.
The classes in each subject might be reformed, with people from each house in them. There's already some classes with two houses in them, but this would be different. It might be done in such a way that the students would have to work together in the class. Not just split into two groups. That way, they'd make friends with members of other houses, while still having friends in their own house. It might not really be for fighting Voldemort, but it would foster a greater unity between all four houses, since students on their own might not be so keen on doing so. The DA was something like this, only Slytherin was left out. But that was because they weren't asked; Hermione didn't trust them.
I have to say that Slytherins, from the qualities valued in the house (amibiton, slyness, slef-preservation, purity of blood) have the largest likelihood for nasty personalities and potential for evil, but there must be some decent ones on there. One that could befriend Harry.
I don't see the animosity with Draco going away any time soon, but that doesn't mean that Harry couldn't meet a good Slytherin.

I think you miss Ancient Runes and Muggle Studies, but your proposal seems very attractive.

[Tirwen Lupin]

Thanks, Katy and Chop! I had a feeling I'd missed some of Hermione's subjects. :grumble:
Katy, you're right, the school probably won't be have some sort of instant unification in book six.That sort of thing takes time, even in situations like that. But hopefully there will be the start of something in the next book. Well, there's already been a start in OotP--DA. There just needs to be a way for the Slytherins (at least some of them) to be unified with the other three houses.

[morgan le fay]

i wonder if there will be divisions within slytherin house in book 6. :shrug: i mean, we mostly agree that they cant alllllll be "bad." so what if some of the better ones, the ones who are cunning and sly but not in a dark way, want to join the DA. could u imagine what the other slytherins would do to them if they know, how they would treat them? i wonder if "better" slytherins are a minority in slytherin house or if ppl like draco are actually fewer in number.

[Liselle]

tierwan Lupin, thats an excellent suggestion, that students from the same year would be in classes together but split randomly (if I get your meaning!) like the four houses could be in Datda...This would lead to a pretty big class which could be split into a number of smaller classes with members from all the houses.....


interesting idea...with the repetition of certain numbers (like 12) maybe it would be split into 12 groups.....

Liselle

[silver ink pot]

i wonder if there will be divisions within slytherin house in book 6. :shrug: i mean, we mostly agree that they cant alllllll be "bad." so what if some of the better ones, the ones who are cunning and sly but not in a dark way, want to join the DA. could u imagine what the other slytherins would do to them if they know, how they would treat them? i wonder if "better" slytherins are a minority in slytherin house or if ppl like draco are actually fewer in number.
morgan le fay: I like your way of thinking!

There was a scene in OotP that mentions Draco, Crabbe, Goyle, and Theodore(?) Nott, all huddled together. Didn't all of their parents get arrested? So the other Slytherins now know that those four have fathers who are Death Eaters. It will be interesting to see if these four become isolated within Slytherin. Although, there may be other children of Death Eaters still to be revealed. I wonder about these childrens' mothers? Will Narcissa Malfoy step in to take her husband's place with Voldemort? And will Snape still treat the children of DE's with deference? I wish we knew more about what is going on within Slytherin!

At the end of OotP, the DA turns Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle into giant slugs, lol. I'm sure the other Slytherins saw that! Mostly it was the Hufflepuffs in the DA who did it, too. That will open some eyes!

[Katy Kedevra]

tierwan Lupin, thats an excellent suggestion, that students from the same year would be in classes together but split randomly (if I get your meaning!) like the four houses could be in Datda...This would lead to a pretty big class which could be split into a number of smaller classes with members from all the houses.....


interesting idea...with the repetition of certain numbers (like 12) maybe it would be split into 12 groups.....

Liselle
Actually, I was thinking that probably in Newt classes, all the houses are put together because not everyone will be taking the same classes and with classes like Snape's, who doesn't except anyone under Outstanding in OWLs, there will be less students taking it and possibly have one class for all the houses together.

[Tirwen Lupin]

tierwan Lupin, thats an excellent suggestion, that students from the same year would be in classes together but split randomly (if I get your meaning!) like the four houses could be in Datda...This would lead to a pretty big class which could be split into a number of smaller classes with members from all the houses.....


interesting idea...with the repetition of certain numbers (like 12) maybe it would be split into 12 groups.....
Basically... Rather than classes being of students of the same year and house, it would be of the same year but with different houses. So one class could have Harry, Lavender, Ernie, and Dean in it; another could have Seamus, Draco, Parvati, and Hannah. So basically there would be a big reshuffling of classes to encourage more unity.
Also, it's interesting that there seems to be twelve subjects that we know of. Yet anothere instance of that number...
But Katy's idea is also possible, that in the NEWT year houses would be put together because of the smaller class size.

And morgan le fay, that's a really interesting thought! I'm sure there are people in Slytherin who'd have no interest in cooperating with other houses (probably the ones Silver Ink Pot mentioned are among them--Draco, Crabbe, Goyle, and Nott). So there could quite possibly be a division within the house. As you said, we don't know if the evil ones or the decent ones are the majority. The good ones might be more withdrawn, so they're not noticed by Harry. So that's why it seems that there aren't many of them.

[Maydeleat Greenly]

I dont want to be rude at all because Im all up for the greek backgrounds and star constellations that are connected to the book, but I don't think it the 4 houses will ever be separated into 10 different ones or any of the classes (if they do Im sorry)..... I just dont think that Jk would stay totally true to greek stories because there's always going to be people like us analyzing it. If that's the way she wrote her books, then the truth about what would happen in all 7 books would have come out long long before with all those history buffs out there. No... I think jk just likes to make references to things like names and places, but I don't think she'll ever make certain actions take place to keep it true to mythology (it would be cool though if it did!) Great thread..... sorry If I sounded harsh or anything, but I don't think it'll happen with the 10 groups unless it's mentioning a group of people or something or different races maybe?

[morgan le fay]

*sigh* i guess i should have said this in the first post..... ive said it since, but few people seem to have read it.......

Although I think that the 10-tribe creation from 4 may be a foreshadowing of unity at Hogwarts, I, like many of you, doubt that it will come with the END of all of the houses and the creation of 10 new houses or something like that. I just think that 10 new groups (new clubs? new organizations? new something else?) MAY be created and these would bring together the 4 existing houses.

also, i agree very much that such a division of 4 houses into 10 would actually cause more trouble, as DD warned that unity is what makes us strong and what the DE's want to do is make us crumble and fail to work together. i cant remember who posted this, im sorry. :blush: but i totally agree with you.

Maydeleat Greenly, dont worry, i dont take offense at all. im just a greek mythology nut and i love all these references. a lot of the theories around these forums can be traced to something in ancient history, and i just think that jrk put a lot more thought into these books (the names, places, numbers, symbols, relationships, etc) than we may have originally thought. your suggestion of 10 different races is interesting to me, though. there are purebloods, muggleborns/halfbloods, and several other human-like magical creatures, including giants, merpeople, elves, and centaurs.

[Liselle]

on the topic of NEWTS I wonder will there be anyone who won't come back for 6th and 7th years.....or will they move school.....after all the NEWTS aren't complusory, the twins showed that

Liselle

[EndlessDreamer]

I hope most of the characters come back. But Liselle brings up a good point about moving schools, are their exchange programs in the wizarding world?? Well their must be because wasnt it Charlie who had a pen pal who wanted him to do the exchange?

And that got me thinking is there a program withing Hogwarts kind of like Co-op (where you go and work at say a lawyers office, if you were thinking of becoming a lawyer, you just help out) So that the kids can get a first hand look at what the jobs are really like?

[Maydeleat Greenly]

lol it's a wild thought but maybe there are 10 different wizarding schools or something? Im not sure who mentioned the different schools (sorry) but thanx maybe that might be it. Or the races but I have no clue, really.


And to Morgan le fey... sorry I only read the first couple of posts cause I like to think that my ideas are original lol :S... but anyway... I totally understand about being a mythology nut. I just love it too. I won't go out of my way to find books on it, but when a book is presented to me, I wont put it down. I just love the depth of jk's books! They leave you guessing on everything ! Now I want to go read a mythology book lol

[morgan le fay]

lol, May. Green., i know what you mean. JKs books are so much more complex and historical and classic than most people think they are. "oh its just a stupid book about a boy wizard who saves the day." :no:

i dont think 10 schools would do much for house unity, but how many do we know of anyway?? hogwarts, beauxbatons, durmstrang, .....?

hmm.... maybe i should go to that numerology thread and check out references on the number 10. if u havent seen it before, i highly recommend it (and the runes thread). :agree:

[thatbrickwall]

2. Draco was the first tyrant of Athens. he was known for his severe punishments and unrelenting cruelty and that is where the term "draconian" comes from.


Actually, I was pretty sure that Draco was not so much the first tyrant (not in the Greek sense of the word, at least) as a member of the council of nobles that seized control of Athens afer the king was marginalized. He was chosen to write up some harsh laws to keep the common people in check. To my knowledge, tyrant has a specific meaning in Greek history, and refers exclusively to the various leaders who took advantage of the common people's unrest and rose to power by rousing the rabble, as it were, against the ruling nobles.

[esmereldacat]

*Hufflepuff:???

Liselle: for Hufflepuff, don't forget Ernie MacMillan and Justin Finch-Fletchly and Hannah Abbot!

OMG! Come on everybody! "Remember Cedric Diggory"!!!! :wow: