The Secrets of Malfoy Manor

[Isaiah]

I, like many others, have been re-reading the first four books in eager anticipation of OotP. I decided to read CoS after finding the interview with JK where she says many subtle hints are hidden in it. And of course, something stuck out to me that I never noticed before. This could be some JK subtlety or it could be me reading way to much into it. Anyways, here goes:

When Harry accidentally floo powders himself into Knockturn alley, he overhears a conversation between a shopkeeper and Lucius Malfoy. After Malfoy and son leave the shop, the shopkeeper mutters under his breath about Lucius selling him not even half of the things that are rumored to be hidden in his house. Now we find out later that Lucius put the Tom Riddle's diary into Jenny's Cauldron at Flourish and Blots. So the assumption I made is that most if not all of the stuff has something to do with Voldemort.

Two things I'm wondering are what kind of stuff could Lucius still be hiding, and do you think the cover of OotP could be Harry sneaking through a dark and creepy Malfoy Mannor? We know from JK that Harry will be visiting some new places in the magical world, what if he has to search Malfoy Mannor for some key to Voldemort's past?

Disclaimer: I hope this isn't already a topic in another thread, I did searches but came up empty.

[Inkwolf]

That sounds like a cool scenario! :) Dang, I don;t even want to know what Lucius keeps in his basement. But Dobby would be able to guide Harry, he must know the place inside-out, having probably served there for many generations.

[hermiones mum]

Malfoy manors secrets must come out soon, will all the "treasures" stored there be handed over to Voldemort or kept for personal use!

What would a muggle house breaker make of the Manor?

[familiar]

I'm sure most of what is in the manor is inherited from past generations. Probably brought out of mothballs by Lucious to assist Voldemort, then hidden again. Although I'm sure he kept some of Voldemorts magical items as well.

[Jessica]

Maybe Snape's mission is to raid Malfoy manor.

(I subscribe to the Dumbledore's office theory of the OotP cover)

It would be great to see him get busted. . .

[Mireille]

It's hard to say what the Malfoy's have hidden in their house. Maybe they don't even know what they have. But it's possible that more artifacts of Voldi's days will come out of the basement with his new rise to power.

I don't think Rowling would reuse the diary senario again. However, the Malfoy's may have some documents of Voldimort's. Could be some old meeting notes or something of use to get into the mind of him. Although I always thought the shop keeper was looking for things, like the hand Draco was wanting.

[Isaiah]

Yeah, I just noticed this because it was so subtle. The shopkeeper seemed unhappy, like Malfoy was disappointing him by not including a lot of things that he was rumored to be keeping, Maybe it was just documents, but I wonder what kind of unusual and horrible things he could be keeping that would get him in trouble with the MoM. Perhaps Lucius is keeping some of the things that Voldemort used to try to gain immortality, like rare artifacts and potion ingredients and things. We know that was Voldemorts ultimate goal.

[DRaGoNoFiLlFaItH]

good insight, I read that before and I never noticed. Maybe the picture on the cover is Malfoys house and Harry discovers some secrets in there

[aiko amaya]

oh this is verychallenging. Umm boggles mind. Theorie thoeries. Nah all I can come up with this is rubbish. I wanna come up with a theory but can't :'9 so sad I dunno what to do. THANK YOU FOR STUMPING ME. All I can think of is really evil dark magic stuff in no way helping with voldie.

[Isaiah]

Ok, so the more I look at it, the more I agree with Adamslove. It isn't really any way to come up with a theory for this one. Guess it was a bad idea.... oh well back to the drawing boards!

[Hpmons]

I think its quite a good and intriging thread myself. What lies in the manor? Well, this is an extract from CoS, afterRon and Harry have taken the polyjuice potion:

Luckily they didnt find much. Father's got some very valuable Dark Arts stuff. But luckily we've got our own secret chamber under the drawing room floor"

Im sure we will find out some other Dark Arts objects, apart from Riddles diary. Voldermort must have had a good reason to give the diary to Lucius Malfoy; he must have trusted him a lot, and hope he would give it to some person o the chamber of secrets could be opened once more.

[Guardian Angel]

I suppose the Malfoy Mannor is full of objects that are very powerfull and dangerous. Just imagine going to the Malfoys' basement - you would find so many things that contain dark magic...Do you think that Draco could bring some of them to Hogwarts ? But if he would do that , Dumbledore wouldn probably catch him....

[Snowangel]

It is possible that Draco would get more and more into Dark Arts as he gets older. He might try to bring such stuff to Hogwarts and he clearly doesn't care much for rules.

It's hard to say what the Malfoys have but I like the idea that Harry might end up someday in their manor. I dont' know if that's what will happen but it's as good a theory as any.

[Hpmons]

Well, JKR did say that we would see him in new places...

I dont think Draco would bring many Dark Arts thinks into Hogwarts; not because he wouldnt want to, but becuase his father wouldnt want him to be linked with Voldermort, and if he was found with Dark Arts things, he would be in an awkward situation.

[Camo]

Hopefully Mr Weasley will get his turn to raid the Malfoy manor for all of the artifacts and evil junk. Perhaps Harry will tip him off if he goes there.

[HbAznKyootie]

Yes, I've been wondering about the Malfoy's Drawing Room for some time now: Did Ron ever send his dad a letter telling him to raid under the Malfoy's drawing room?

[hermiones mum]

Is it possible that the Deatheaters have their own chamber of secrets under their houses? Could they be linked - all doors leading to a deatheater?

That could then mean that Snapes office has a hidden chamber! after all he spends 9 months at Hogwarts - WHERE DO THE TEACHERS GO IN THE SUMMER HOLIDAYS, do they have their own houses

[Hpmons]

Yes; they probably have their own houses.

I doubt all the Death Eaters would all have linked chambers, since they can apparate; but it is likely a few others do.

My guess is that Voldermort gives money, Dark Arts things and other special things to his special DEs. This would explain why the Malfoys are so rich. A school governer wouldnt get that much money would they?

[Isaiah]

Yeah HPmons that is a good idea. I kinda figured that the governor job was kinda a volunteer thing, like being on your kid's PTA here in the US, I don't know what Malfoy does for a living, I figured he's got such "old blood" (from a long line of wizards) that he's got old money too, but that is another thing to wonder about. Does JK ever mention Lucius or Narcissia's occupations?

[HbAznKyootie]

It must be really hard for the teachers to be away from their home and family 9 out of 12 monthes in the year.

Back on Topic, I imagine Lucious having a job in the ministry, since he and Fudge seems buddy-buddy with each other, and Narcissa staying at home, like a typical housewife/trophy wife.

[kellybellybuton]

i don't know if someone already said this but in the second book, once harry and ron had taken the polyjuice potion, they hear malfoy say that people raided their manor but thankfully they didn't look under the drawing room floor. Dobby also mentioned that he know secrets about they Malfoys that are very mysterious and dark. Could this be another clue, like when Dobby told harry that Voldi wasn't envolved with the end of the second book

[fuzzi95]

I don't understand!? I mean, did Ron ever tell his Dad to look there in the first place!!!

[Hpmons]

I think its just one of those things that JKR forgot to expand upon. I do think, though, in the future, there will be a raid on Malfoys house (perhaps if there is an eighth book - after Voldemort has been defeated), but it wont be to do with what happened in the 2nd book.

[EvilMeghan]

Was anyone else disappointed that the MoM did not raid the Malfoy mansion yet? After Harry found out they had a secret room in CoS and he told Ron, I thought for sure by the next book they will get busted. But nothing has happened yet!! What do you guys think?

(I searched and couldn't find anything, sorry if there's a thread already.)

[1MelissaPotter]

Are you talking about the letter Ron sent to his Dad after he and Harry were Crabbe and Goyle- if so- I wonder if the letter even got to his father. Dobby was incepting Harry's mail, so maybe he could incept mail about the Malfoy family? It would be hard, but it is possible.
If he got the letter, the Minister of Magic would have had to approve of the raid. Maybe he didn't want to take Weasley's word for it, find nothing and look stupid? OR could he be closer to Malfoy- like friends.
Its annoying and very fishy.

[Mireille]

You also have to remember the letter was from kids. Even after they have proven the professers wrong, the adults don't tend to take them seriously when they know that they have been right in the past. It's not a nice possibility, but it is highly possible they haven't raided yet is because the tip off was from a 13 or 14 year old.

[EvilMeghan]

Even so, there wasn't even a mention later on in any of the books. :(

[rotsiepots]

I'm going to send this off to the Great Hall.

If another admin/mod thinks this thread should remain in the Books 1 - 4 Discussion Corner, please move it back. :)

[Spitf1re]

Maybe Ron had second thaughts about sending the letter. Maybe he thought that his dad would ask about how he got the info. The Dobby theory is a possibility too, because at the tme he was still loyal to he Malfoys.

[Alastor D]

Obviously there hasn't been a need for that raid in the plot. Not yet.
And, as already said, Arthur can't raid the Malfoy manor only because his son says they hide something. He needs a reason good enough for the MoM.

[Weatherby]

Perhaps Ron forgot to tell his father?
Lucius has clout enough that he could have time to hide his 'goods' before Arthur had permission to do a raid.
Do they need search warrants in the MoM? I imagine for an "old family" they would need one.

[Yadiami]

I don't think Ron forgot to tell his father, and if he thought it could get them in trouble if Arthur ask him how he know it, he would have told Harry.
I think Arthur ignored the letter or just kept it as a clue but he didn't ask the MoM for a raid until he had more clues.
But I guess the Dobby-factor can be important too.

[Barbara Kennedy]

It is possible that the raid is still being carefully co-ordinated by the MoM and just hasn't occurred yet. They would have to very carefull entering a known Dark Wizard's home. Think of all the death-traps they could encounter.

[dorcasderr]

To come against Lucius Malfoy, Arthur Weasley,or ANYONE for that matter, would have to have an airtight case just to be allowed to enter the Malfoy mansion. Arthur is unlikely to be INVITED there for any reason, so he would have no opportunity for...um...extracurricular snooping. So, until an irrefutable MASS of evidence is collected against Lucius Malfoy, I doubt we will see a raid on the house of so powerful a wizard.

[tabby]

I agree with Dorcasderr. I don't think it's a simple manner of just walking into a wizards house and deciding to have a look around. There is probably some wizarding equilevant of a search warrant. The simple knowledge that a secret room exists wouldn't be enough to grant one. Arthur Weasley has probably filed the information away until he can use it.

[Alastor D]

Yes, and Fudge wouldn't listen to anyone suggesting a search of the house of anyone who gives donations for excellent purposes. He wouldn't endorse that search warrant.

[MadMagic]

I don't think Fudge would permit the raid without hard evidence from someone besides 12 year old kids. And now the evidence is probably even more in doubt with Fudge now that he questions Harry's sanity.

I think Lucious does too good a job pulling to wool over everyone's eyes for Fudge to allow Malfor Manor to be raided.

[Buttercup]

I think that room is going to be very important somehow in future books. I am not sure how or why but I think that JKR mentioned this for a reason. I always wondered about that room.

[Isaiah]

All this argument about MoM permission and Fudge not approving a raid doesn't make sense. The reason Harry and Ron find out about the secret chamber under the drawing room floor is because MoM already raided the Malfoy house and found nothing. It doesn't seem odd to me that Arthur could say he had some inside info and that he knew right where to look. I started a thread about the room under Malfoy Mannor throwing out the idea that maybe that's where Harry is snooping on the OotP cover. What do you guys think about that?

[Alastor D]

We don't know when that first raid happened. Perhaps it was before Lucius was cleared abt 11 years ago and started giving donations.
There is in the Common room a thread abt OotP covers. It has been made clear that the artist was not allowed to read the manuscript. Which means the artist has no better clues than we have.

[eos]

Remember, Ron and Harry found out about the secret room on the same day that Arthur was fined and reprimanded for the car incident. Lucius called for his resignation and the scrapping of his Muggle Protection Act (which we also haven't heard anything about since book 2).

My guess is that if Ron did remember to tell his dad (which I'm not entirely convinced of), Arthur, hurting from the affair with the Ford Anglia, had to choose his battles, and decided to continue pushing the Muggle Protection Act, knowing that there was no way he could get help on both projects with his current status. Besides anything done to Malfoy, Sr. at that point would be automatically discredited as an immature backlashing.

Also, when Ron and Harry returned the shoes outside the closet where Crabbe and Goyle were locked, it's evident that C&G were awake. At some point, they must have broken free from the closet and ran to tell Malfoy (and possibly Snape).

Now Malfoy's no dummy. He finds out that inspite of having just spoken with them, they say that the last thing they remember was eating a couple of cakes left on the stairs, then waking up shoeless, locked in a closet.

What's Draco going to think? He's Snape's star potions student, enticed by all the dark stuff-- surely he's read Most Potente Potions as well. And there's no reason to think that Hermione's the only one to remember Snape talking about polyjuice in class.

Having just been indiscrete about his dad's chamber, wouldn't he warn his dad to move everything? And why was there no confrontation between Snape and Harry? Surely Snape (who if not informed of the incident directly from C&G, would certainly be told by Malfoy) would suspect Harry before anyone else, as would Malfoy.

It is indeed odd that the whole thing was dropped.

[Alastor D]

Good points,eos!
But what if Draco didn't dare tell his father he had slipped a family secret? And perhaps he wouldn't listen to Crabbe and Goyle. He doesn't seem to think they are clever enough to be listened to. But, yes, Lucius may have emptied the chamber.
And we don't know the whole thing is dropped. There are still 3 books coming.

[Sndreamer]

Originally posted by Isaiah (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=248876#post248876))
All this argument about MoM permission and Fudge not approving a raid doesn't make sense. The reason Harry and Ron find out about the secret chamber under the drawing room floor is because MoM already raided the Malfoy house and found nothing. It doesn't seem odd to me that Arthur could say he had some inside info and that he knew right where to look. I started a thread about the room under Malfoy Mannor throwing out the idea that maybe that's where Harry is snooping on the OotP cover. What do you guys think about that?



You are right. i never thought of harry being in the malfoy manor. And Jk did say that there are somethings in COS that may be important in the future books.

[DragonslayerX]

Alastor, the artist for the American cover did read the book, and I believe this is the cover being referred to here.

[eos]

Quote:

But what if Draco didn't dare tell his father he had slipped a family secret? And perhaps he wouldn't listen to Crabbe and Goyle. He doesn't seem to think they are clever enough to be listened to. But, yes, Lucius may have emptied the chamber.
And we don't know the whole thing is dropped. There are still 3 books coming.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
right you are alastor D!

I've thought about your counter-points. I don't think Lucius would be mad that Draco was talking to Crabbe and Goyle (but heck, what do I know of middle-aged ficticious characters!), still he might be a bit ticked that Draco was discussing it openly in the common room.

And yeah, Malfoy might listen just long enough to C&G's story to let them get to the part where their shoes were missing, before he wrote them off entirely as being delusional from too many sweets. ;-)

Sometimes it can be maddening to be restricted to Harry's POV.

[Alastor D]

Originally posted by DragonslayerX (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=250816#post250816))
Alastor, the artist for the American cover did read the book, and I believe this is the cover being referred to here.


Thats really odd. Bloomsbury's artist was not allowed to read the manuscript. Neither have translators to other languages. (Inspired by rotzies mention abt creepy Finnish covers I checked that publishers website. It was clearly stated that their translator has no chance to start working before June 21.) How could that strict secrecy not be valid in the US????? What reliable source told you that the US artist was allowed to read it??
But this is of cource off topic..............

[hermiones mum]

As we know that Voldemort is a descendant of Slytherin, who created the chamber of secrets and that Lucius has a hidden chamber at Malfoy Manor.
Can we assume that most deatheaters have hidden areas within their houses. Could Voldemort have a hidden chamber within the Riddle Manor, this is then another way of going furtively to anothers house (the evil equivalent of Floo powder)...flush powder :wow:

[eos]

[quote]:

"Can we assume that most deatheaters have hidden areas within their houses. Could Voldemort have a hidden chamber within the Riddle Manor, this is then another way of going furtively to anothers house (the evil equivalent of Floo powder)...flush powder "

I don't know about the Riddle House. As far as we know, Voldemort's return to the Riddle House in GOF is the first time he's been there since the one and only time he set foot there after graduating from Hogwarts to kill his father, step-mother, and half-brother.

I like the idea though of all the Death Eaters having secret chambers that they use for communitcating and traveling. Very handy since supposedly the MOM keeps track of apparation (though that still doesn't totally give for me).

Reminds me of a Madeleine L'Engle book where she talks about druids creating subterranean chambers over or near lei-lines(sp?) (usually near underground springs). The idea is that they were built over or near places that were inherently magical in an "old magic" sort of way, and that druids used the places to communicate to each other (and even travel) over space as well as time.

Now that was DEFINITELY off topic, but still kinda relevant, I think.

[EvilMeghan]

When he went to the Riddle House, eos, he killed his father, grandfather, and grandmother. His father had already left the family, to go live with his parents, and his mother was already dead.

It would be smart of Voldy to have another way besides apparating for his most trusted Death Eaters to travel.

[eos]

"When he went to the Riddle House, eos, he killed his father, grandfather, and grandmother. His father had already left the family, to go live with his parents, and his mother was already dead."

Really?! When the townspeople talk about the good-for-nothing young Tom Riddle, I just assumed that Voldemort's father had done what so many deadbeat dads do-- remarry, and give another son your name. Hmm... I'm curious as to what other people interpreted in that line. Did anyone else get caught by the "young son, Tom" descrption and think it was Tom Riddles half-brother through a remarriage?

Really, now that you mention it, EvilMeghan (it's hard to write that without laughing), your take is much simpler, and makes a lot more sense than mine...

Thanks!

[EvilMeghan]

No problem. That screwed me up so much on my 5th re-read of GoF, I had to stop reading on like the fifth page! Then I came here, and found an entire thread on it. :lol:

Now, back on topic.
Do you think the MoM still has "spies" on the former "Dark Side" who they could employ to search this secret room? What about the guy in the Dark Arts store (Borgin or Bukes - I don't really remember)?

[eos]

Borgin & Burkes??? (I'm not sure either)

That's a great idea! The store owner certainly didn't seem to like Malfoy much, and had access to part of his stash! The problem is that Lucius is a classist. Anyone that he deems beneath his own status is simply not going to be taken into confidence about where the secret room is or how to get into it.

Remember, it's probably protected by all sorts of charms and needs passwords and incantations and goodness knows what-else. It might have wizard-repelling charms like the muggle-reppelling charms for used for the World Cup. There might also be a disillusion charm (?) to make the entrance look like something else. Whatever is protecting it, it's going to be a lot more complicated than a trap door behind a tapestry.

So for the MOM to break into it they'd need a spy who was at the top level of wizard social status, for Lucius to confide any informaiton at all. Remember, the guy at B & B, just mentioned rumours, not first-hand knowledge.

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by eos (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=253009#post253009))
Whatever is protecting it, it's going to be a lot more complicated than a trap door behind a tapestry.

So for the MOM to break into it they'd need a spy who was at the top level of wizard social status, for Lucius to confide any informaiton at all.


Dobby may play an important part here. He must know the house better than anybody and could help the MoM efficiently. At the end of Book 4 he still had difficulties in telling Malfoys secrets but this situation I think is about to change soon.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Just a random thought to throw out.
[picks it out of head and lobs it into post]
Could the secret room in Malfoy Manor be one of Voldemort's hiding places? If it is, then everything in it is Voldemort's belongings.

[Alastor D]

Yes, it could. But do we know he used to have hiding places?

[Barbara Kennedy]

I don't think we know, but it hasn't stopped any of us from theorizing before.......lol

[eos]

oooo... Good posts everyone!

It sounds about right that all of Voldemort's old artefacts must be somewhere, and Dumbledore obviously seems to think that Lucius has more of Tom riddles school things.

And the idea of Dobby helping out--- that's brilliant! Yes! he's just the one! It also clarifies a little bit the importance of Poppy helping Winky when DD's giving everyone assignments. Before, I just thought he was trying to get rid of Poppy, but now... maybe he's trying to make steps to winning Winky over. Voldie and Wormtail were hiding out at Crouch's house for quite a while. Who knows what they've left/planted there? And who knows what Winky's learned about Voldemort and his supporters through listening to Crouch Jr.?

But that's a bit off-topic...

[Alastor D]

Good idea, eos. But Winky was already dismissed when Voldie and Wormtail were there. So she can't know very much abt that.

[matahari toad]

To be honest I just thought J.K. had forgotten about it. I just don't see why there wouldn't be ANY consequences to Ron's letter. Even if it's only Mr. Weasley saying "sorry Ron, but we can't search the Malfoys' Mansion because...". On the other hand this room opens up nice new possibilities...strange things bursting out of the Malfoy Mansion,-)

[Barbara Kennedy]

Strange, scary vision comes to mind *runs away screaming*

[Barbara Kennedy]

I don't think JK forgot, she just hadn't got to it ....yet. Now we have book 5 [almost here!]. Hopefully with scads of answers to all these questions.

[raeredeyes]

yeah, there is so much that needs to be answered in book 5...

oh well, not too long to go :D

[eos]

I forgot about Winky, Barabara-- you're right.

After all this talk, I'll be really disappointed now if nothing comes of the Malfoy room and we never hear about it again.

[Weatherby]

We may not find out directly.
We know Lucius has dark materials but Rowling may not need to give us any more information.
I'd love for Arthur to bust him once for all..

[raeredeyes]

yeah! Its a possiblility as the room has been alluded to.

A big time bust by Arthur would be awesome :smile:

[Weatherby]

This thread is a bit similar to another thread (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7566) about the Malfoy manor and the raids. :)

I'm sure there's many secrets dating back centuries in the Malfoy manor. Lucius probably inherited most of his collection.

[Weatherby]

Maybe Lucius will recieve his justice at the end of Voldemort's reign? Arthur can personally raid his manor and dismantle the Malfoy name..

[rotsiepots]

I'm merging this thread with a similar topic entitled Secrets of Malfoy Manor (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7566).

If another admin/mod thinks these threads should remain separate, please split the threads. :)

[Barbara Kennedy]

Really expect that Lucius will meet his end by the hands of Voldemort, but when?

[eos]

Quote:
"Really expect that Lucius will meet his end by the hands of Voldemort, but when?"

Good question. I have a feeling that it'll involved Draco and possibly Snape, so it might not be until the last book, after Draco's been through the mill.

[Weatherby]

Lucius is most likely using Voldemort. He didn't try and help him come back but he used his diary and fear of his name for his own purposes.
Voldemort will use Lucius because he appears to be more intelligent than his other slaves but if he tries to usurp him he'll have him killed.

Lucius will leave him once he no longer aids his goals.

They will try and rid the other one when they've used each other up.

[eos]

Hey Weatherby-- I like your points.

I never really thought of it before, but you're right, Lucius does seem to be using Voldemort for his own aims. Always. I would totally buy into you hypothesis:

"Lucius will leave him once he no longer aids his goals."

if these were just two knights or whatever, duking it out. It's the whole magic part that phases me. Somehow, I'm not totally convinced that Voldemort could be thrown down several stairs by Dobby.

I'm not saying that Lucius is a bad wizard mind you, just not anywhere near Voldemort's level. So it's hard for me to picture Lucius braving that kind of power by leaving Voldie now that he's returned. I mean, Malfoy Sr.'s arrogant, but he also likes to keep his face and figure intact, ya' know?

[Mayerlin]

When I read this thread, there's something that puzzles me. I hope I can make my point clear...

We know for sure that Lucius Malfoy had kept Voldemort's diary and gave it to Ginny.

My question is: How did he get the diary first?

Some of you suggested that Voldemort gave the diary to Malfoy along with other Dark Arts items. He would have done the same with other faithful DEs, giving them some of his possessions, like a king dividing his realm to his heirs.

Why would he have done that? To reward them?

It's a possibility but I doubt it...

He has other (perverse) ways of rewarding his servants than sharing his own goods as if he was going to die.

When he attacked the Potters, he obviously hadn't planned that he would be defeated by baby Harry. He thought and still thinks that he is the most powerful wizard of all times. He thought (and was almost right) that he was immortal so he certainly had no need to hide his precious collection of dark material in his trustworthy servants' houses.

I really don't envision Voldemort rewarding his servants with his old school things, it would be like:

Voldemort gives Lucius an old diary and says: "Open it!!" Lucius obeys and then :

"Master has given socks" said Lucius in wonderment "Master gave Lucius his old smelly socks"

Malfoy then kneels and kisses the bottom of Voldemort's robes

As for potion ingredients and more precious items, I doubt Voldie would have allowed one of his servants to reach immortality. He doesn't really like rivalry.

My opinion is that if Lucius possesses some of his master's belongings, it's because he stole them.

He didn't try to find his master after his defeat but he either knew or discovered his hideout and took everything that could be useful to him.

Now, I'm wondering what will be Voldemort's reaction if Lucius robbed him indeed.

Any thought?

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by Mayerlin (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=257457#post257457))
Now, I'm wondering what will be Voldemort's reaction if Lucius robbed him indeed.

Any thought?

If Lucius is discovered he may argue that he only intended to keep those valuable properties away from the hands of Aurors and other unwelcome people.

[Mayerlin]

Yes...He could say that...

Voldemort seems to guess when people lie, though...

[Barbara Kennedy]

It is very likely that the Death Eaters gathered Voldemort's things after he fell to the Death Curse Gone Awry.
Some may have kept them for their own use, as I think Malfoy did.
He seems to be the type.

[eos]

Quote:

"My opinion is that if Lucius possesses some of his master's belongings, it's because he stole them."

I don't know, I think I'm more in favor of the other theory brought up on this thread which was something to the effect that Voldemort had been using Lucius' room as his hideout. I don't know, there's not a lot of proof either way and they could both be argued against...

Still, your theory gives a better image of what might have happened to Voldemort's wand. Picture it-- Voldemort no longer in human, bodily form, and all the DE's make a looting scramble for his things, kept... ??? ...somewhere hidden at the old Riddle place??? ...in a cave?? Who knows?

And... well, ...you know what? I'm not really getting anywhere with this. Even if there had been a mad dash and Lucius just proved to be the fastest, it still had to have been Pettigrew who took the wand and hid it. So never mind... Sorry. :-p

[Barbara Kennedy]

Couldn't Malfoy have used his status and influence to get the lion's share of the spoils, either by fair means or foul?

[Weatherby]

I love these points. :)
Lucius may have stolen Voldemort's old belongings. But perhaps he didn't steal them. Riddle may have left the diary in Hogwarts and a teenage Lucius discovered it in the Slytherin house.

Interesting though eos. Where did Voldemort live? Most likely not at the Malfoy manor. Someone may have seen him there. Lucius would've had a harder time claiming he didn't mean anything.
Voldemort has squatted at the old Riddle house. He could've done this?

[Hpmons]

If he stole some of Voldermorts things Vol would be really annoyed with him at the re-birth ceromony, so i doubt he did. He probabyl just "took his things for safe keeping"

Vol may have lived in a variety of places, he may not have stayed in one spot; and I doubt he stayed at Malfoys, becuase he had many more closer DEs than him. (eg Crouch Jr).

He may be a spy for Vol, and once Vol is defeated, just go back to saying that he was under the Imperius curse, or Vol forced him. And, of course, he could always bribe lots of people to not put him in Azkaban; or he may just end up in their anyway (which will stop Draco from walking around like he owns the place...).

But i do think that he is using Vol a bit for his own personal gains. And Vol probably knows that as well; but since Lucius is willing to do anything, it probably doesnt really matter at the moment...

[EvilMeghan]

If Voldy had stayed at the Riddle House during his first reign of terror, I think Frank Bryce would have noticed him. And weren't there Muggles living there sporadically in the past however many years since the Riddles were murdered?

[harp230]

Do we know the people living in the old Riddle house were muggles? I also wonder who owns it now? And how long? And why Would Voldie go there early in GOF? Why would he think he could be safe there? I am guessing the current owner is magical... If not Voldie than someone (Malfoy)connected to him. i'm not sure if they were aware he was there though... Would Frank Bryce be know/ be bothered by the identity of the person living there in the past?

[Barbara Kennedy]

Back to subject.
There are potentially more mysteries in the Malfoy manor than the one room that has been mentioned. Lucius has probably been acquiring Dark Magic objects for years.

[Filius Flitwick]

Not only has Lucius been acquiring them over the years, most likely the Malfoy family line has been acquiring them for generations. I'd be surprised if there was ever a good Malfoy, and if there was then he was most likely either killed or maimed in a way that landed him in St. Mungo's.

[Weatherby]

I agree Barbara.
I think the entire Malfoy family may have been collecting these items for years. Before the rest of the wizarding world made them illegal (as Crouch Sr. venhemently declared about his family's magic carpet).

[Barbara Kennedy]

The owner of the shop on Knock Turn Alley certainly knew Lucius well, that is certain.

[Fleur du mal]

I have never started a thread and I'm not even sure if this topic isn't already discussed somewhere else, but I couldn't find it. Please correct me if I missed it. So:
In CoS, Harry and Ron get to know where Lucius Malfoy hides his stuff, don't know about the English expression, but it was a secret place under his living room, right? I always wondered about this place, because usually, you don't get information like this for no reason. But as far as I know, nobody ever used this information. So my questions are:

1) is it just said to make the whole conversation a little more plastic?
2) if not, when could it be important?
3) what could you find there?

sorry, but as an old whodunnit fan, I just can't get over stuff like that. :rolleyes:

[owl post 1992]

Well I suppose it will come up in book 6 I think Harry and Ron forgot it before they could tell because Hermione got attacked. I think we might find Lord Voldemorts other personal persessions other dark stuff LV invented most likely to look like muggle items so it can kill more efficiently.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I'm not sure it will come up. Malfoy is already in jail and I have a feeling DD won't let the ministry put him and the other DE's under the dementors. What's inside is probably also not as juicy as you're expecting - my guess is it would be assorted Dark objects, like the hand of glory, etc, and not as much of LV's stuff as you owuld expect.

[Dedalus Diggle]

I think it was a collection of camisoles Tom Riddle wore under his robes while at Hogwarts. :p

[Laura Patil]

Maybe it's Lucius's dirty magazines. :p

Er...Anyway, I forgot all about the stuff under the Malfoys' living room. I'll have to reread that part.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Maybe it's Lucius's dirty magazines. :p


hee hee. lol

I'm sure the slash writers could have field day with Lucius.

[Fleur du mal]

it rather started as a joke, but do you think that place is big enough to hide a person?

[Fleur du mal]

To explain myself: not the thread started as a joke but the idea if someone could hide himself there. I asked a friend about that place and he said: maybe he is keeping the corpses of the people he kills there. But after book 5 I could imagine a person like Bellatrix hiding there, IF it was possible.

[Hamish D]

To explain myself: not the thread started as a joke but the idea if someone could hide himself there. I asked a friend about that place and he said: maybe he is keeping the corpses of the people he kills there. But after book 5 I could imagine a person like Bellatrix hiding there, IF it was possible.

if he kept corpses down there i dont think malfoy would be talking about it. i think the dirty magazine thing was amusing :lol: but he probably like he said keeps mementoes from his Death eater days.

[Black Dog]

i dont exactly remember which part yall are talking about.....so i guess im no help here

[Hamish D]

i dont exactly remember which part yall are talking about.....so i guess im no help here

i might be wrong but i thought he was talking to the shop keeper in Knockturn Alley, i dont have my copy of CoS handy so i cant check.

Can anybody help?.....


:nc:

[TheBoss]

yeah.. if any of you have the DVD, check the bonus scenes.. theres actually quite a long scene of harry/draco/lucius in the knockturn alley shop, i dont have the movie with me, so i dont remember what actually happened, i just remember it was there..

darn spelling... okay okay i left out a few pivotal words, shadup ;)

[Fleur du mal]

In the movie as well as in the book Lucius and Draco go to see Mr. Borgin in Knockturn Alley to sell stuff that "might be embarrassing if the ministry would find it" or so. But if I remember right, Draco tells Crabbe & Goyle // Harry & Ron that there are still some hidden things in that place under his parents living room, that the ministry would never find out about. The thing with the corpses was a joke anyway - heaven, THAT would be a nasty smell if there would really be corpses rottening under the floor of Malfoys living room... oh got an idea - maybe this is the reason why Narcissa wears that disgusted facial expression all the time :elaugh: ?
No, but after hearing that corpsething I was wondering if somebody might hide themselves there, in case of another raid - which is very likely, sure the MoM will search Malfoy Manor after arresting Lucius. Where is Bellatrix? She is the sister of Narcissa, maybe Narcissa hides her?

[dncrgrrl]

Maybe this will come up again later, you never know, Dobby may have some idea of what or who is in there.

[Fleur du mal]

Sorry, I forgot who suggested it that Lucius could have stolen the diary after Voldemorts downfall. What about the Riddle house? I think, there is a thread somewhere about it, and someone said it could be Lucius who looked after it for all the years when Voldemort was out of order. Where would you keep your old school stuff if not in the attic of your parents house?
Oh, and the other idea of Lucius finding it in the Slytherin common room: that's great, never guessed it, but it sounds very plausible. On the other hand: if you were an arrogant brat like Malfoy surely was in his schooltime, wouldn't you want to be the heir of Slytherin YOURSELF? At least try it for one time? I'm certain that his son would have tried it.

[tanis]

I think it would be a great direction to go to Malfoy's house. It would give us a lot of insight into how truely terrible they are and some of what they have been up to.
Also I think it would be quite interesting for Dobby to play an important role in this and show us how magical he truely is. And I think this is a great possibility, just look at the fountain in the MoM showing the different races of magical beings fighting alongside one another, including a elf.
All in all, Malfoy's house would definately be a wicked environment for the story to take a twist in.

[Fleur du mal]

I think it would be a great direction to go to Malfoy's house. It would give us a lot of insight into how truely terrible they are and some of what they have been up to.
Also I think it would be quite interesting for Dobby to play an important role in this and show us how magical he truely is. And I think this is a great possibility, just look at the fountain in the MoM showing the different races of magical beings fighting alongside one another, including a elf.
All in all, Malfoy's house would definately be a wicked environment for the story to take a twist in.

I definetely agree. I imagine their house to be wicked. And I understood the meaning of the fountain exactly the same; it would be marvellous to see how Lucius reacts when his former slave stands up to him and is succesful. I'd really love that.

[Chrissy_Weasley]

I'm currently rereading CoS and I happened across this:

Chamber of Secrets, Scholastic, Ch. 4 "Flourish and Blotts" p. 53 (paperback)

"Good day to you, Mr. Borgin. I'll expect you at the manor tomorrow to pick up the goods." (Lucius)

The moment the door had closed, Mr. Borgin dropped his oily manner.

"Good day yourself Mister Malfoy, and if the stories are true, you haven't sold me half of what's hidden in your manor...



My thought is, that either Borgin is just mocking Lucius, or he's being sarcastic, as if there is rumor that the Malfoys don't live as well as they make themselves out to. I think I see Harry visiting Malfoy manor sometime in the next couple books and maybe showing a different side to Malfoy. Perhaps not enough to make Malfoy stop messing with HP and Co. but perhaps Harry won't react so angrily.

Another reason I say a possible visit is in the future is because when Ron and Harry are under Polyjuice as Crabbe and Goyle, Draco told them that the rest of the stuff that the ministry didn't raid is under the Drawing room floor. I know it'd make Arthur's day if he was able to press charges on the Malfoys.

[ginnybatbogeysyou]

I think Borgin was mocking Malfoy, but it would be a great surprise if the malfoys turned out to live in a house smaller than the Weasley's. :)

And I hope Arthur gets to raid the Malfoy's drawing room cellar. That would be a laugh.

[Nephel]

I think the Malfoys live or used to live in Riddle Manor that we hear about at the start of GoF, and I think the room beneath the drawing room will contain a dark artefact that somebody will need to use, maybe Harry, so he will have to go and get it.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I think it's more likely that the rumors are that there is a lot of other Dark Arts stuff at the Malfoy manor. He was known to be a Death Eater at one time, remember.

Anyway, this is discussed in The Secrets of Malfoy Manor, and this thread will probably get merged. :)

[lxs234]

I really don't think, unfortuanatley, that J.K. can have anyone go to Malfoy Manor now, because of all the fanfics. How could she come up with anything without someone saying they had that idea? of course, since it is only fanfic, they couldn't sue, but readers of the fanfics and internet browsers might not think of her as higly as before.



I really, really, really hope the malfoys DON'T live in a small house. I like the idea that they are really rich.
What did j.k. mean by putting manor in italics though?



Someone had put up a link to "mysteries of malfoy manor" and i clicked on it and said there wasn't a link?

[GryffindorGr]

I really don't think, unfortuanatley, that J.K. can have anyone go to Malfoy Manor now, because of all the fanfics. How could she come up with anything without someone saying they had that idea? of course, since it is only fanfic, they couldn't sue, but readers of the fanfics and internet browsers might not think of her as higly as before.



I really, really, really hope the malfoys DON'T live in a small house. I like the idea that they are really rich.
What did j.k. mean by putting manor in italics though?



Someone had put up a link to "mysteries of malfoy manor" and i clicked on it and said there wasn't a link?


No they don't live in a Weasley house, or else all the suggestions in the book are false.
Draco's constant reminder of the Weasley's being poor, Neville's lack of brain, and Harry's lack of parents, try to make Draco look like he's got all of which the three don't have. But unfortunately for him, he doesn't have friendship, loyalty and bravery, which he does lack for the most part. Not everything in material wealth nor brains can give you what you can't get for money. So everyone has a loss but who loses out more? I think Draco does.

As for the italics on the "manor", I think it's just something the store keeper wanted to emphasize. He knows about all the secrets and maybe we'll find out in the next books what they are all talking about.
If Riddle owned the house before and he came from Salazar's line, then that manor probably has a lot of dark arts secrets. I'm really curious too.

About the comments on fanfics. It is still JKR's storyline and those who write fanfics are borrowing her characters. A lot of fanfics had Ron as a quidditch and prefect before OotP but that didn't stop JKR from continuing her storyline. I think that makes no difference. :)

[Jane Granger]

As we know that Voldemort is a descendant of Slytherin, who created the chamber of secrets and that Lucius has a hidden chamber at Malfoy Manor.
Can we assume that most deatheaters have hidden areas within their houses. Could Voldemort have a hidden chamber within the Riddle Manor, this is then another way of going furtively to anothers house (the evil equivalent of Floo powder)...flush powder :wow:

While we are talking about Riddle Manor and Malfoy, I don't know if anyone
asked this before:

Who's the current rich man who owns Riddle Manor ("for tax reason")?
Could it be....Malfoy?

Another question I have concerning L.M. and the Chamber of Secrets is,
how much did Lucius Malfoy know about Tom Riddle's Diary, did he
know, that it is possible for Tom to raise from the memory if he can
have enough diet of whoever communicate with him via the dairy?
Did L.M. expect that to happen or was he only tring to cause trouble
to Arthur and Dumbledore? What about the timing, why now after
so many years, was it because Harry is now in Hogwarts?

Had Harry got to the CoS a few minutes later than he did, then Ginny
would have died, and Tom came out of memory alive again, suppose
he somehow escaped, found his current self...Hmmm, another way for
the Dark Lord to return!

[lxs234]

Who's the current rich man who owns Riddle Manor ("for tax reason")?
Could it be....Malfoy?



I'm almost 100% certain it's Malfoy who owns the Riddle Manor. I doubt they live there though.

[SnorkackCatcher]

I'm almost 100% certain it's Malfoy who owns the Riddle Manor. I doubt they live there though.

Well, it was abandoned empty for years except for Frank Bryce the caretaker looking after it, so I shouldn't think the Malfoys lived there. :) Malfoy currently havng title to the manor is a pretty good bet though.

[lemondrop]

...And I hope Arthur gets to raid the Malfoy's drawing room cellar. That would be a laugh.
It does seem like now that Malfoy has been arrested it would be the perfect time for Arthur to use the information Ron gave him. It might make things worse for Malfoy. Although Narcissa may have cleaned house when Lucius was arrested.

[MoodyMania]

It does seem like now that Malfoy has been arrested it would be the perfect time for Arthur to use the information Ron gave him. It might make things worse for Malfoy. Although Narcissa may have cleaned house when Lucius was arrested.
What information did Ron give him? I only remember the info Harry gave him in CoS.

[lemondrop]

What information did Ron give him? I only remember the info Harry gave him in CoS.
I do mean the info from CoS. The raid on Malfoy Manor took place before Ron and Harry took the Polyjuice and got the info from Draco. We never heard that Arthur used the information. Or that there were additional raids on the manor.

[MoodyMania]

I do mean the info from CoS. The raid on Malfoy Manor took place before Ron and Harry took the Polyjuice and got the info from Draco. We never heard that Arthur used the information. Or that there were additional raids on the manor.
In Knockturn alley Harry had heard Mr Malfoy telling that he still had plenty of illegal things. I thought that was what you were talking about. I forgot about the polyjuice potion scene. :sad:

[Gwenog Jones]

Because of Malfoy's arrest, there should definitely be a search of the Malfoy Manor. Arthur Weasley knows that he is hiding stuff under his living room, so that should be pretty interesting. If Narcissa was smart, she would get rid of everything though..

[MonicaG]

IF you look on JK's sight she talks about a scene she deleted from the books where we learned more about Theodore Knott becuase he and draco were talking at Draco's house. I wouldn;t be at all surprised if it was additional information about the malfoy family and there manor that was part of the information that JK originally put in CoS and then realized should really go in book 6.

[alpha_hazard]

It was the Drawing room Floor, and yes, I'm almost Certain there will be a raid in the near future...however, it may not turn up very much, because of Voldemort's return to power, as many of his possesions would be returned to him.

I always remembered thinking what a shame it was that Harry did not buy the Hand of glory in Kockturn Alley...It could have been very useful to him...of course, for the most part he seems to have been lucky enough to not be in a situation that merits the need for it.

I also find the idea of riddle's home being owned by The Malfoy's to be a little bit hard to swallow. If he did own it, why was he not doing something more productive thoughout the whole of GoF, it seems he would have known Voldemort was there. Furthermore, it may appear a little more than suspicious if Malfoy owned a run down house For tax reasons, when he is contributing money to St. Mungo's, a much better tax shelter as it has no affiliation with the dark arts. It stands to reason that the owner of the Riddle estate is probably a muggle, because its original owner was a muggle, due to the fact that nobody lives there because of it's rumors of being haunted and what not.

Now, clearly The malfoy estate still holds many dark artifacts. These are probably most likely associated with information gathering, whether they be spying devices or torture devices. I'm sure malfoy has turned his share fair of people to his way off seeing things not by physical threats, but by threats of character. Gathering dirt on ministry officials and school governors. Other things could include nasty items that bound the user heavily to certain agreements...perhaps Quills or parchment. Things of that sort. Malfoy hardly seems like the type to waste his time making foolish threats upon someone's life, knowing that brutality is much more likely to be exposed.

[Shauna]

To explain myself: not the thread started as a joke but the idea if someone could hide himself there. I asked a friend about that place and he said: maybe he is keeping the corpses of the people he kills there. But after book 5 I could imagine a person like Bellatrix hiding there, IF it was possible.

I think it would indeed be possible, but remember, the Ministry is doing raids. So if Malfoy thinks he's going to get in trouble for having certain potions in his house, I think he would definitely be in hot water for having an escaped Askaban Death Eater in his house. :)

Shauna

[Strange_Divine]

Wow, I didn't even think to consider who's owning Riddle Manor for "tax purposes". The Malfoys would be an interesting twist.

[filius]

I think that the ministry will definetely be raided since now everyone knows that malfoy is a Death Eater. This will probably happen in book 6! That would really be great! They will have to raid his house to get rid of all voldemorts old things so as to "lessen" his power.

[Remus Black]

Say goodbye to Malfoy's evil artifacts-I bet the MoM will raid his house and confiscate them. :)

[Tane]

No doubt the ministry of magic will raid the Malfoy's house, I who wouldn't if he was known dark lord sympathy. The one issue here for me is, will Draco take or steal I should say one of Voldemort's or Tom's old school things and try and get Harry himself with such an item.

I can't help but think that this line spoken by Dumbledore to Lucious is significant:

'if any more of Voldemort's things where to find there way into innocent hands'So I know Draco is not innocent by far but it does sound as though another student could obtain another item of Voldemort's before the end the series.

[morgan le fay]

oooo if the ministry raids the malfoy home, id really love for them to find something, ANYTHING, to further incriminate him. some DE documentation (a contract for voldemort signed in blood?), some DE attire (DE mask? DE socks?), or even a "PROUD DE" keychain or something! :lol: think their house has a ghost or poltergeist? a poltergeist would really make raiding a bit difficult. finding some DE-circle communication devices would be good, too.

id really be interested in the location of malfoy manor in relation to other magical buildings and places of significance. is it built on something old? does it make any ley lines with other magical places on a map? :huh:

[drifting.shadow]

i think that the malfoy house will be just as hard to raid as, for example grimmalud place. if the ministry were ever to want to raid them that is. we must remember that lucius malfoy knows lots of people in high places, such as the minister of magic and im sure if malfoy had anything ' interesting' or 'worthwile' that may serve the dark lord then i think he wil be able to move it into differant places very quickly. that is of courseif he doesnt keep them away from his house already as it would be foolish for people to know where all of his illegal artifacts were hidden.

[Lough Gabhra]

[QUOTE: Isaiah: Now we find out later that Lucius put the Tom Riddle's diary into Jenny's Cauldron at Flourish and Blots]

I think I have missed something really important because I have now idea who Jenny is. Is she Ginny’s twin sister or something? Hum… interesting how new characters jump into books without me noticing. (No hard feelings Isaiah:))

[no1 potter fan]

Dobby should be aloud to say now since he is no longer there house-elf and he should know the place inside out.

[Dementor Dave]

i think that the malfoy house will be just as hard to raid as, for example grimmalud place.
If I'm not mistaken, the Malfoy's Manor has already been raided once. It was of no consequence as the really incriminating and obscenely obvious Dark Arts artifacts were hidden in the secret chamber below the drawing room. I'd quote CoS, but I don't have it handy, anyway, it's the scene in which Harry and Ron pose as Crabbe and Goyle with Polyjuice Potion.
-Dementor Dave

[HermioneLuna]

Ok. Lucius Malfoy gives Ginny Tom Riddle's diary in Chamber of Secrets, but where did he get it from? Did Voldemort hand it over just in case something happened to him? In Goblet of Fire, Voldemort said that the Death Eaters knew the measures he had taken in order to guard himself against mortal death. Was this diary one of those measures? I think Voldemort might have trusted Lucius and therefore entrusted him with the task of giving his diary to someone who would put their trust into an unseen friend. I know there is a thread about why Lucius would give Ginny the diary, but this is different. This is how and why did Lucius get the diary in the first place?

[Flaming Phoenix]

Hmmm...yes, I wondered this too. I can't really say, except that maybe Lucius found it after Voldemort lost his power and held on to it, or Voldemort gave it to him specifically. I'm thinking since Lucius collects so much Dark objects in his house, the diary was just one of the things that was just laying around his house. Or maybe the diary magically appeared at Lucius's place because Tom Riddle wanted Lucius to figure out a way to get it into hogwarts. I don't know, just guessing. Or hey, who knows, maybe JKR will explain that in book 6! :shrug:

[FluffyMundungus]

Hmm, very intersting question. My theory is was that Lord Voldemort had given the diary to Malfoy for safe keeping. As HermioneLuna said before, Voldemort took many measure to guard against mortal death. This was probably one of them.

[DougJohnston]

Why did Lucius Malfoy give Tom Riddle's diary to Ginny?
Ginny and the Diary (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=32448&highlight=diary%2A)
Possibly this thread?

[Rhanebeaux]

Hmm, very intersting question. My theory is was that Lord Voldemort had given the diary to Malfoy for safe keeping. As HermioneLuna said before, Voldemort took many measure to guard against mortal death. This was probably one of them.

My thoughs exactly. I think that Lucius has possibly been in some kind of contact w/ Voldemort, or that all of this was planned years and years ago as a percaution, incase something happened to him. On the other had he was very cocky, and prolly thought he was inviniable, but he did say in CoS that he put himself in the diary on purpose.

[Sorcha]

I wonder what other measures, if any, he took that we haven't found out about yet.

[atherella]

Well, seems as though Malfoy had a lot of LV's old possessions. Remember in CoS when he tried to sell stuff in that dark wizarding store because the Ministry was conducting raids on houses.

[FluffyMundungus]

Wow I've never even thought about other measures Sorcha. That would make an interseting new thread :p.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Check out what other items Malfoy may have had here.
The Secrets of Malfoy Manor (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=23014)

[QuidditchChaser]

Lucius and Tom went to school together and Tom said he created it so that someone in his stead could open the CoS. Maybe when Lucius had Malfoy Voldemort gave it to Lucius thinking to open the chambers and give Dumbledore grief. Or as FlamingPheonix said that it was probably some dark object in his that he needed to get rid of before they raided his house. If the MoM found that diary that would show he was a supporter eventually. When they found out Tom Riddle = I am Lord Voldemort...

[HermioneLuna]

That's a good point, but if it was simply a matter of getting it out of his house before the raid, why not give it to that shopkeeper in Knockturn Alley? Lucius didn't exactly make it a secret that he had dark magic-type objects that he needed to get rid of, an empty seemingly harmless diary wouldn't raise many eyebrows, would it? He also could have just tossed it away somewhere. But he gave it to Ginny. It's kind of suspicious that he gives it to someone who will be at Hogwarts where the Chamber of Secrets happens to be hidden. It would kind of seem like Voldemort told him that he needed the diary to be at Hogwarts at a certain time in order to both open the chamber and bring him (Voldemort) back into existence.

[Magi]

I think Malfoy has a lot of Voldemort's old items in his manor. At the end of CoS, Dumbledore seemed to guess it.

[SiruisSarah]

Remember in the beginning of the Chamber of Secrets? Harry was taken to the wrong gate when he traveled by Floo Powder. He saw that Lucius was giving away things he had stored in his manor that he didn't want the ministry to find? What if those things where the "precautions" that Voldemort took just in case. I mean, Harry did witness that, so it therefore must have some meaning behind, if not just prove how wicked the Malfoy's are, but what if another one of Voldemorts "precautions" turns up again?

I also distinctly remember Dumbledore staring directly at Lucius and saying that if Voldemorts old school things were ever to turn up again, the conquenses would be . . . totally don't remember the rest of the quote but i think it was like terrible or something.

So what if the things that Lucius wanted to get rid of where really Voldemort's own school things, his "precautions"? Maybe Lucius gave the diary to Ginny because he disliked Arthur Weasly so much that if the life was sucked out of Ginny and into Tom Riddle, that he wouldn't mind at all (but his being a death eater would make you assume he wouldn't mind either way but anyways . . .). Also, when Dumbledore said that to Lucius, wasn't he EXTREMELY angry when he left the room? Or did he just get angry after Harry tricked him into setting Dobby free?

[Grimoire]

The consequence of Lucius Malfoy having Tom Riddle's diary is that he knows that Voldemort and Tom Riddle are the same person and therefore he knows that Voldemort is a half-blood. It doesn't seem to bother him or to have changed his prejudice against non-purebloods. Which is interesting, because Bellatrix Lestrange was shocked when Harry told her.

[HermioneLuna]

I don't think that Bellatrix is shocked that Voldemort is a half-blood, because I get the impression that's common knowledge. I think she's still reeling from the fact that Harry called Voldemort by his name. She said that Harry besmirched Voldemort's name.

[Nikki_Star]

The question is why does Lucius have Voldormorts things? Maybe he trusts Lucius...the next question is why? Barty and Bellatrix are/were his most loyal no doubt...but why is Lucius so trusted? I have a theory...not sure if this where to post it...but I think that Voldemort knows something we don't about Mr. Malfoy. I know I know....The Malfoy family is a pure blood family. How do we know for sure? I think Lucius is a half blood just like Voldemort. This is only speculation of course and it's open for argument. It just boggle's my mind why he would trust Lucius over Barty or Bella. They are his most loyal and most trustworthy. Why not trust Lucius when he has the same qualities the dark lord has? Again, it's speculation. In the next books we will be learning more about the Malfoy family. It's possible that not even Narcissa knows about this, just as Voldemorts loyal supporters don't know about him...

[HermioneLuna]

The question is why does Lucius have Voldormorts things? Maybe he trusts Lucius...the next question is why? Barty and Bellatrix are/were his most loyal no doubt...but why is Lucius so trusted? I have a theory...not sure if this where to post it...but I think that Voldemort knows something we don't about Mr. Malfoy. I know I know....The Malfoy family is a pure blood family. How do we know for sure? I think Lucius is a half blood just like Voldemort. This is only speculation of course and it's open for argument. It just boggle's my mind why he would trust Lucius over Barty or Bella. They are his most loyal and most trustworthy. Why not trust Lucius when he has the same qualities the dark lord has? Again, it's speculation. In the next books we will be learning more about the Malfoy family. It's possible that not even Narcissa knows about this, just as Voldemorts loyal supporters don't know about him...

That's actually a good theory. It does fall under this thread because it provides an answer to the question, kind of. I say "kind of" because we don't really know the answer yet. I'm not sure if it's because Lucius is a half-blood, but there definately is something going on with him that we don't know. Personally, I really want to know what Mr. I'm-better-than-you-are-because-my-blood-is-pure-and-even-if-you're-a-pureblood-I'm-still-better-than-you-are-because-I'm-Lucius Malfoy has hidden in his chamber of secrets.

[Alastor D]

I'm very much afraid that Sirius blew the 'Lucius is half-blood' theory in OotP, chapter 6 when he told Harry that Bellatrix and Narcissa were still on the tapestry because they made "lovely, respectable pure-blood marriages".
It's possible that Voldemort considered Lucius the most clever and cunning of his lot. Perhaps it's more a question of trusting his abilities than trusting his loyalty.

[Nikki_Star]

Yes that was said by Sirius, but just about everyone in the wizarding community, with the exception of those who know, have been lied to. They believe that Voldemort is pureblood. Lucius defintintely knows he is not because he knows he is Tom Riddle. Why wouldn't he be disgusted? Why wouldn't he denounce his master, call him a phony and take the reins? He seems to be the only one of the deather eaters(besides Snape...) that knows about this. Maybe Luicus lied to make himself him look better? Maybe he is just like Voldemort and despises his halfblood postion? I just don't see why JK would write "Voldemorts old school things" and not Tom Riddles...

[Alastor D]

It was Sirius who said it, yes. But it was his mother who let Narcissa's and Bellatrix's names stay on the tapestry while wiping out Andromeda's. As all pure-blood families are interrelated and know each other she couldn't have missed such a horrible thing as Lucius not being pure.

[pasalita]

There is detailed discussion regarding the Malfoys' connection to Voldemort in the thread linked above, mainly regarding speculation about how the Malfoys came to obtain Voldemorts old possessions.

HermoineLuna, please let me know if you'd like this thread merged into the one linked by Barbara Kennedy. If not, it will remained closed for deletion.

Thanks!

[lemondrop]

No doubt the ministry of magic will raid the Malfoy's house, I who wouldn't if he was known dark lord sympathy. The one issue here for me is, will Draco take or steal I should say one of Voldemort's or Tom's old school things and try and get Harry himself with such an item.

I can't help but think that this line spoken by Dumbledore to Lucious is significant:

So I know Draco is not innocent by far but it does sound as though another student could obtain another item of Voldemort's before the end the series.

That does seem like possible foreshadowing.
I suppose either Draco himself could wind up with something of Voldemort's
or
if Narcissa tries to unload things before the Ministry raids Malfoy Manor these things could find there way to Borgin and Burkes or someone else.

[LexiBlack]

I hope we see some more of the secret items that Lucius Malfoy has. But I don't think that Draco will try to unload something on Harry in hopes of getting him caught with it. I think enough people know that Harry is not in with Voldemort. If anything I see Draco or one of his friends getting caught with the item.

[meghana]

Isaiah stated:
When Harry accidentally floo powders himself into Knockturn alley, he overhears a conversation between a shopkeeper and Lucius Malfoy. After Malfoy and son leave the shop, the shopkeeper mutters under his breath about Lucius selling him not even half of the things that are rumored to be hidden in his house.
I thought this as well. I noticed it. I don't think he told Ron...however, I wondered why no one ever mentioned it again.

Hopefully, we will see more things like Grindelwands XXX or LVs possessions or some cool potions and gadgets.

Yes, Lucius is a pureblood. Draco states that in the first book (I think the first meeting in Madam Malkin's shop).

Meghana

[dinkime]

Maybe if/when the MOM raids Malfoy Manor, Arthur Weasley will be along (or know about it in advance) and will be able to inform them of the "hidden room" under the drawing room that Ron & Harry learned about in COS (Ron stated he was going to let his father know to check under the drawing room after Draco told them about it thinking they were Crabbe & Goyle).