M-13 - Sportsmen and their behaviour away from their sport

[dumbleedore]

I thought that a thread was warrented on this, seeing as though it's all we've been hearing about in the news.

Mods- if you can think of a smaller title feel free to change it. And if the thread isn't suited/already here, just close it :D.

Here in Australia at the moment there is quite a lot of scandel going on with our footballer's off the field. 5 of the Canterbury Bulldog's are under investigation in regards to a gang rape, more and more rape allegations are coming up against the team and other teams in the NRL and the AFL. Rugby Union is the only code not yet affected. There is also claims that Willie Mason tested positive to cocaine use and it was hushed up by the club. After the main rape allegations, a second claim was made, but this claim was a year old.

Sportsmen are well respected by all and loved and admired by children. We might think children are innocent, but by listening to adults and hearing the news and listening to the radio they would have picked up on what's been happening. How would their opinions of their hero's been affected by these scandels? Should the clubs report all occurances such as Willie's drug test to the authorities? Should the police be involved in the scandel's or should they be sorted out privatly by the club? The second rape claim was reportedly sorted out by the woman within the club- but why didn't she go to the police? Any rape or attempt of rape should be reported to the police- why did she go to the club first?

Thoughts?

[Wab]

Should the clubs report all occurances such as Willie's drug test to the authorities?

In the case of big Willie's alleged coke use, the testing carried out by the club's has a much lower threshold of proof than a police investigation.

Should the police be involved in the scandel's or should they be sorted out privatly by the club?

If there is a possibility of a crime being committed the police the club has a duty to report it to the police although this isn't always carried through.

The second rape claim was reportedly sorted out by the woman within the club- but why didn't she go to the police? Any rape or attempt of rape should be reported to the police- why did she go to the club first?

Which one? The allegations relating to the Dogs at Coffs Harbour last year, the ones relting to the Storm earlier this year or the one regarding St Kilda.

Rape cases are very hard to try and often out of court settlements are sealed to escape having to relive the experience over and over in court.

[dumbleedore]

Which one? The allegations relating to the Dogs at Coffs Harbour last year, the ones relting to the Storm earlier this year or the one regarding St Kilda.

That's the second woman who came forward about the Bulldog's claiming that the club begged her not to go to the police. That's what I mean with all should be reported to the police- she's now come forward a year later, but all evidence is gone of the rape- it's now her word against theirs.

[Wab]

That's the second woman who came forward about the Bulldog's claiming that the club begged her not to go to the police. That's what I mean with all should be reported to the police- she's now come forward a year later, but all evidence is gone of the rape- it's now her word against theirs.

She did go to the police but:

"The Director of Public Prosecutions dropped the case last year because it was the woman's word against the players and there was insufficient corroborating evidence."

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/03/07/1078594239735.html

[dumbleedore]

Would you be able to copy and paste the article for me, please Wab? My browser goes nuts whenever I open the page.

[Wab]

Fresh rape claim hits league club
By Jacquelin Magnay
March 8, 2004

'Kate' tells her story on 60 Minutes.

A woman has alleged she was raped by a Bulldogs rugby league player in Coffs Harbour a year ago and that the club tried to blame her for the incident.

The woman, known only as "Kate", alleges the rape took place after she had consensual sex with another Bulldogs player.

She told 60 Minutes last night that the club fined three players for their involvement although the club accepted the players' insistence that any sexual activity was consensual.

Kate said that on March 3 last year she had been introduced to visiting league players who were in Coffs Harbour for a trial game.

She had agreed to have sex with a player at the Pacific Bay Resort. "I consented to that and I had no problems there," she said. "I didn't sort of have face-to-face contact with him... as we were having sex on the bed (a second time) I saw a flash or a shadow from the side of me and as I've looked up there was another footballer... standing there masturbating. So I've quickly turned around and moved what I thought was (name deleted) away from me and it wasn't (him)."

Kate said the player she is accusing had pleaded with her not to go to the police and club officials had tried to blame her.

"He was putting all the blame on me from the time he has opened his mouth, he was putting me down, like I asked for it, calling me more or less the slut because I went out there and I took one back and I consented to going back with one," she said.

The Director of Public Prosecutions dropped the case last year because it was the woman's word against the players and there was insufficient corroborating evidence.

Bulldog chief executive Steve Mortimer said it would not be appropriate to divulge what action the club took. "No charges were laid, we took matters into our own hand and acted accordingly, it is confidential to the club what we did," Mortimer said.

Police last week interviewed 23 Bulldogs players over the alleged gang rape of a woman last month and coach Steve Folkes will be questioned today.

[Liselle]

I think that this is a tangled issue, alot of the pro sports people (Expecially soccer) turned pro when they were quite young and didn't finish school/education. They have gone from having nothing to having people throwing themselves at them and clubs throwing crazy sums of money at them. They can't cope and it goes to their heads. Course this isn't justifying it at all, I just think that there should be some sort of infrastructure in place where young players can get counsilling and training in what do to with themselves off the pitch.

I dont' think that anyone of them turned pro with being a role model in mind, it was thrust on them. Most of them deal with the pressures well, keep quiet and a low profile etc but there are always exceptions who make life difficult on themselves.

Fame being a double edged sword

[dumbleedore]

Thanks Wab.

"No charges were laid, we took matters into our own hand and acted accordingly, it is confidential to the club what we did,"

Should it be confidental what they did? If it was anything other than a sporting team, it would have been reported to the police and proper action taken- that's what makes me mad.

Liselle: recently, through work, I've had dealings with a sporting club and they actually put all the players in a course, which deals with pretty much anything. I've seen the course program and it deals with finding managers, dealing with sponsers, how to find sponsers, etc and also has units on health and nutrition and other things. They can't play unless they do this course and when they finish that, they put them on another one. Basically this teams enitre life revolves around the team- they train for around four hours a day, with this course fitted in around the training.

[Wab]

Thanks Wab.



Should it be confidental what they did? If it was anything other than a sporting team, it would have been reported to the police and proper action taken- that's what makes me mad.

What was confidential was the settlement. As the story said, the issue was reported to the police and the DPP didn't lay charges as it deemed that without corroboration, the woman's story would have been outweighed by testimony by the three players.

[Liselle]

Liselle: recently, through work, I've had dealings with a sporting club and they actually put all the players in a course, which deals with pretty much anything. I've seen the course program and it deals with finding managers, dealing with sponsers, how to find sponsers, etc and also has units on health and nutrition and other things. They can't play unless they do this course and when they finish that, they put them on another one. Basically this teams enitre life revolves around the team- they train for around four hours a day, with this course fitted in around the training.

Thats cool :tu:, question for you though, is this the norm or the exception to the rule? I ask as I've no idea.....

[dumbleedore]

I don't know if it's the norm- we should hopefully be dealing with a few other teams soon, so we'll see what happens.

[Liselle]

I don't think that its the norm in the uk (I use the uk as an example as there are very few fully professional teams in Ireland but that is a whole other story!), recently there have been cases where pro soccer players have been accused of sexual assault, gang rape etc. Unfortunately these cases seem to be getting more frequent.

[Wab]

I don't think that its the norm in the uk (I use the uk as an example as there are very few fully professional teams in Ireland but that is a whole other story!), recently there have been cases where pro soccer players have been accused of sexual assault, gang rape etc. Unfortunately these cases seem to be getting more frequent.

From a some reports that sort of behaviour is becoming less common and less acceptable so more reports are coming out. It has been a pattern that as sexual abuse laws have been altered to protect the victim from the assailant in court more victims have been willing to come forward.

[dumbleedore]

To be quite honest, I see that it's becoming a case of one comes forward, then about 10 others because they can get money out of it. You see it everytime something happens in the media- people come crawling out of the woodwork. And it's slowly getting to the stage where you don't know whether to believe it or not, because they just seem to be flinging money out everywhere to shut people up.

[Nys]

To be quite honest, I see that it's becoming a case of one comes forward, then about 10 others because they can get money out of it. You see it everytime something happens in the media- people come crawling out of the woodwork. And it's slowly getting to the stage where you don't know whether to believe it or not, because they just seem to be flinging money out everywhere to shut people up.

Exactly! One woman comes out and alleges she's been raped, and all of a sudden they're coming out of the woodwork, and the public gets desensitised to a point where they start blaming the women.

It also doesn't help when clubs start slandering the first of the women to come forward. I can't believe that the Bulldogs put out a statement like the one they did just before the police had their press conference saying that they were dropping their charges.

But my opinion of the topic of this thread is simple, the sportsmen are representing their particular football code at all times. They may not like this, but surely they get paid enough money to put up with it. I don't know how this problem is going to be solved, 'cause forcing them to go to seminars about how they should treat women isn't really going to do much. They'll sit through them because they have to, and not take any of it in.

[dumbleedore]

I watched an episode of Four Corners with my dad on Monday night- it was about the rape of a woman in London by a Brisbane Lion's AFL player. Transcript here (http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/content/2003/transcripts/s1100551.htm).

[Nys]

I caught the end of that episode, I think I was channel surfing :)

TICKY FULLERTON: As the season continues, all eyes are on the game. What happens off the field is less scrutinised. Yet the fact remains that in the past 20 years not one of the cases of alleged rape in AFL and rugby league has led to successful prosecution.

There's definately something going on with this! I am one person who does not think that someone is a god and can do anything just because they're good at kicking a ball!

[dumbleedore]

There's definately something going on with this! I am one person who does not think that someone is a god and can do anything just because they're good at kicking a ball!

Sports stars seem quick to get a big head and think they can get away with anything- and this is proving it even more. They can be violent towards women, do ungodly deeds, and they can hide behind their club. Am I the only one who thinks the clubs need to stop protecting players?

[Tane]

Some sports men and women do get a little big headed but then so do ordinary non-sporting people. I feel that they should be treated the same way as everyone else when it regards breaking the laws. Then again I also believe that famous sports women and men need there privacy and should be allowed to go out for a good night in town like every other ordinary person without being judged upon what happens to them in there private life. Perhaps the papers and news should concentrate on the good they do every now and then rather than always the bad side of there lives which they spend more time hunting for.

[Wab]

It also doesn't help when clubs start slandering the first of the women to come forward. I can't believe that the Bulldogs put out a statement like the one they did just before the police had their press conference saying that they were dropping their charges.

What really ticked off the NSW Police was Noad's "now let's believe nothing happened" comment.

They went so far as to make the unusual comment that something did happen but the DPP concluded they didn't have enough evidence to prove it in court.

[Hagrid442]

Welcome to America, the Land of myriad bad examples.

-Kobe Bryant
-A St. Louis Blues hockey player hiring someone to kill his agent.
-A St. Louis Rams football player getting pulled over for a DWI. This happens fairly often, but.... this guy has a record. Few years ago, he killed a woman while driving drunk.
-Baseball steroid scandal. Well... this is both inside and outside the sport.
-University of Colorado football players accused by several women, including a female place-kicker, for harrassment and rape.

[Nys]

I'd agree that sportspeople should be treated the same as normal people, but given some privacy. I guess it's hard to judge though, I mean they are more in the public eye (obviously) and thereby more likely to have someone try to scam them for money.

But all the same, they shouldn't be able to get away with these sorts of crimes, and their clubs should stop having the whole 'boys club' where they cover for one another constantly.

The problem is, how do you go about stopping them getting away with so much?!

How do you stop women making false claims? This is only fueled by 'bad news sells more papers' mentality of the public.

I think in the end the preasure is going to have to fall back on women to simply not be put in the situation, harsh as this seems (and stupid I might add). But not talking to footy players is nearly the only answer....

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Two words - Pat Tillman.

[HollywoodBob]

What about him? What makes him any more special than any other soldier that has died in the line of duty? Because he gave up a lucrative career to join the army? I know 3 people that dropped out of college to join the army, they gave up lucrative careers to put their life on the line. Pat Tillman could have done more for the country if he had stayed playing football and given his earnings to charity.

-HollywoodBob

[FirefightingMuggle]

This thread almost ties in with one I started a while back about role models. Kind of.
People who are in the public eye, like athletes, movie stars, Musicians...someone is always watching them. Things that they do that are illegal or immoral impact their fans, especially kid fans. I think these people need to realize the impact that they do have. When athletes drive drunk and get a slap on the wrist, it almost makes it seem Ok to do what they did. It's not. If celebrities and athletes used their money to do good things, instead of get drunk, buy drugs, or whatever else they do with it, I think that it could influence more people to get involved with positive things as well.
A lot of people are followers. Look at how many girls wanted to dress like Madonna in the 80's, Britney Spears or Gwen Stefani in the 90's. People in the spot light have to be leaders, and leaders have to lead by example. When the rich and famous do the right thing, it does have an influence. When they commit crimes, and do drugs, and drink and drive, that influences people too.

Fame has a price. You are always in the public eye. You should try to do things that are good and legal, and give people the best impression of you.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I said nothing about him being superior to other soldiers. I said something about him being superior to other athletes.