CoSForums Archive - U - Fad Diets & Weight Obsession - Opinions on Atkins, Raw food diet, and the like

Zee

April 6th, 2004, 11:37 pm

The idea behind the raw food diet is that, back when humans were young, we lived off the earth and what was provided naturally. We didn't process our food. Therefore, the theory is that our bodies have not yet evolved to be able to properly deal with processed food, such as bread. People don't eat wheat, because wheat is not edible on its own, and bread is processed wheat and therefore off-limits. Cooking is also putting your food through a process, so it's also off limits, hence the name of the diet.

Surprisingly, I've seen some raw food "recipies" that looked rather tasty, and there have been a lot of health benefits reported by those who go on the raw food diet. People claim just about every improvement, from increased energy to the complete disappearance of major diseases and sicknesses, like cancer, anemia, and even just arthritis. There actually seems to be some truth in this. The increase in energy, for example, has a justifiable reason for it. When you cook food, heat and acid can alter much of it to become unmetabolizable, so it becomes fat. Raw food, however, usually breaks down neatly into compounds that can be directly metabolized, giving you more energy, faster.

As for the miracle cures, however, I have my own theory. There have been many reports over the years of people who get something like cancer, and afraid they're going to die, change their lifestyle drastically. One man started rock climbing constantly, another moved to Tibet, etc. and so on. Their cancers suddenly disappeared, and they were cured. This seems very similar to what happens to people on the raw food diet who report the disappearance of cancer and other diseases. So my theory is that it isn't the diet itself that cured them, but a drastic change in lifestyle that required their body to go into an adjustment stage, which corrected various errors (mutated cells) found throughout the body that inhibited such an adjustment. Just my two cents on that one, but I think it's a fairly sound theory. Moreso than cooked food causing cancer, anyway. ;)

Back to the subject at hand, though...

what do you all think about raw foodism?
I think it can have some benefits for certain people, but is definitely not for everybody. For myself, I wouldn't go on the raw food diet because despite reported improvements in health, you can't eat meat on the raw food diet. This means that you're not getting vitamin B12, which is an essential vitamin. If a diet does not provide you with all your vitamins naturally and you have to take suppliments, I don't consider it a complete diet and therefore unacceptable for my personal lifestyle. This is also why I'll never become a vegetarian or a vegan.

However, I think this is an excellent diet for both anorexics and the obese, oddly enough. Because raw foods have near-complete nutrition, but won't produce fat, it's a very comforting way for an anorexic to recover, both physically and psychologically. She can eat, but she won't get fat. For the same reasons, it's also good for the obese, because they can eat as much as they want without putting on more fat. Also, because raw foods produce a lot of energy, they'll be more inclined to go for a walk and get exercise.

So it has its ups and downs, like all diets, and like all diets, is good for some people and wrong for others. It's wrong for me, but for someone with certain health problems, it might be just right.

do u think the media influences or discourages RF?
I think the media influences fads, and yes, I think this diet is a fad. Most diets tend to be. However, I've seen less of this diet on TV or in ads than I have of the Atkins diet, and though Atkins works well for weight loss, I have some major issues with it. That's for another debate, however.

are u a raw fooder or know someone who is?
Nope, and no. Although it might be interesting to meet someone who is.

pasalita

April 7th, 2004, 12:36 am

Zee

April 7th, 2004, 12:57 am

Hm. I don't necessarily believe that the habit of eating raw food is a fad. I was very much under the impression that some individuals have practiced it for a while. Perhaps the introduction of a few restaurants garnered towards the preparation of raw food is the reason why so many more people know about it, but I don't think it's a fad in the same way the "Atkins" diet is being eaten up (excuse the pun) by corporations.
There are definitely people who have been eating raw foods far before it ever became fashionable and popular to do so. To them, it's not a fad, it's a lifestyle. But most people picking up on the raw food diet today are simply participating in the popularity of it, and will most likely move on to something else when something new comes along claiming to be the healthiest diet.

You can apply this to most diets, even veganism is a fad. Which is not to say that there are not people who have grown up being vegan and enjoy it as a permanent lifestyle, but simply look at the evidence. Twenty years ago, how many people were vegan as compared to how many people are vegan today? I don't even think the word "vegan" was well known until very recently, and all of a sudden there are all these people who ask if there's anything suitable for vegans on the menu.

It's a fad, whether people like to admit to the fact or not, and it's very likely that in another twenty years, we'll be back to the way it used to be. There will be plenty of people who don't eat meat or dairy, but they won't tell people they're "vegan" because 1) no one will know what it means anymore because it will no longer be a popular thing, and 2) those people will be the ones more concerned about living the lifestyle than the label of being "vegan," or "animal friendly."

This can be said for most diets. There are always people who believe in certain diets and live their lives according to them, but that doesn't mean that it can't become a popular way to eat for a certain length of time. And that is the very meaning of a fad.

crookshanksmom

April 28th, 2004, 4:14 pm

I've thought alot about diets, especially fad diets such as Atkins, South Beach Diet, Cabbage Soup Diet (among many), over the years. Yesterday I read in an old magazine that around 50% of Fourth Grade girls feel that they are too fat and should go on a diet (for those not in the US, fourth graders are between the ages of 9 and 10). This concerns me, because a girl's body generally starts changing around that time to prepare for puberty. Instead of rejoicing over the womanly changes (breast buds, hips spreading, more interesting distribution of fat), they find it fat and gross-I believe because fashion models don't have any curves. So, for the questions:

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?

HollywoodBob

April 28th, 2004, 4:50 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
Nope. Dieting doesn't work, weight lost is almost always gained back, and then some. To lose weight you have to change your lifestyle, that means eating right and exercising. I'm really against any no/low carb diets, they make your skin sag like a wet sock. I've found the best way to maintaing a healthy weight is to keep enough muscle mass to burn your caloric intake.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
That statistic comes from using the BMI (body mass index), and it's just wrong. Using the BMI Brad Pitt is overweight, and George Clooney is obese. As for the obviously overwieght people, the ones with big bellies and backsides, there are too many variables to explain it, from poor diet to a sedentary lifestyle to side effects of medication. I've even heard that encouraging your children to clean their plate reinforces bad eating habits, like eating until you're full, when naturally you should just eat until you aren't hungry anymore.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
I don't have any idea. I'm sure pop culture has an effect on their self image, but I don't think that sheltering them from that influence will change anything, plus it's not really fair.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Goes back to that media induced negative self image.

-HollywoodBob

PadfootBlack

April 28th, 2004, 6:00 pm

1. Never have and never will. And I mean that. Remember when that was the slogan for 7-UP (No caffeine -- Never had it, never will.)? They came out with 7-UP Gold, which had caffeine, and they went back on their word. I will never go on any fad diet.

As for all the people that are on fad diets, especially the Atkins diet, I hope they all get fatter. They're ruining our hamburgers. What's up with all that "NO BUN" stuff? The Atkins diet is evil and it's ruining our culture!!!

2. We're all lazy. Isn't it great?

3. Get a bunch of fat ladies famous. Then little girls won't think they have to be tiny toothpicks. When I say make some ladies famous, I don't mean Rosie O'Donell or Oprah Winfrey.

I like a little bit of meat on a girl's bones. I think really thin girls are absolutely disgusting. They need to eat more, not less.

4. It's called "low self-esteem" and it needs to stop. All these silly little anorexics need to realize that they look fine.

Animagi rock!

April 28th, 2004, 7:10 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?

I've never been on a diet and probably never will be. I've always been really thin even though I eat like a horse. I guess something's wrong with my metabolism :p . I always wished I had more curves when I was a teen. I got over it after puberty, though. Why make a big fuss about something you can't change?

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?

People always say that they'd like to be thin and need to loose weight, but most people don't have the strength of will to permanently change their lifestyle and dieting for a few weeks won't help in the long term. Also many people are fat because of genes and can't change it whatever they try.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?

Not much. Most teens feel insecure about their bodies because they're not used to the curves. They usually get over it. It might help if you could improve their self-esteem.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat

You get it shoved in your face from a very early age that you're supposed to be really thin or you won't be popular, find a boyfriend, etc. It becomes an obsession after a while (which can be dangerous). All those stick-thin models walking around in clothes that any normal-weight girl would look fat in don't help much either.

crookshanksmom

April 28th, 2004, 8:55 pm

I realized I had not even answered my own questions!

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
I have not, and I never will. Any nutritionist will tell you that fad diets are dangerous 99% of the time. Atkins is one of the worst, especially for women. It raises cholestorol in both sexes, and it also does something to your body which makes you body leech calcium from your bones to correct the imbalance "no carbs" causes. Anyone up for some early osteoperosis? Also, cutting out any one food group sets you up for not getting the proper ammount of nutrients (vatamins and minerals) in your body to function at peak effecinency. Plus, 95% of people who diet gain back the weight they lost within a year because they don't do something more important than cutting calories-EXERCISE!

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
I blame dieting, believe it or not. Everyone's looking for a quick fix to lose some weight, so they starve, try a new diet, lose the weight, binge, gain it back, and do the same thing all over again in a few months. All that yo-yoing is bound to scew with your matabolism in a negitive way. Also, people don't exercise. Anyone can exercise, even if you're out of shape. Just start out slow, like a walk around the block until you build up your endurance. Having muscles on you helps burn calories so you can eat more and still stay thin.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
The number one thing starts with the women in a girl's life. If a girl hears from her mom from day one "Oh, I'm so fat, I need to diet" or "Look how big that woman is!", the girl is going to think dieting is a normal part of life and to gain acceptance from her mom, start to diet. This is worsened when mom (or other important women-aunts, grandmothers, baby sitters) praise her for dieting and/or losing weight. Media does play a small part, but if a girl hears her mom saying that women, no matter their size are beautiful and actually MEAN it, that will be offset some.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Once again, it has to do with the women in their lives, usually their mom. Moms are to blame, saying to their daughters stuff like "Why, you gained 5 lbs since your last doctor visit! You better lay off the cookies!" Of course when you are 12, that's going to sting when you're already so unsure about your changing body and life in general. Another thing is girls in Junior High and High School are VICIOUS and if you're even an ounce overweight, you will be teased something fierce, and today, being anything over 115 lbs, regardless of height is FAT to young girls.

pasalita

April 28th, 2004, 9:46 pm

FYI: I've merged crookshanksmom's thread to an already existing one discussing the raw food diet/lifestyle since both exist on the same wavelength (ie. are they eating lifestyle changes or fad diets?)

Thanks!

HollywoodBob

April 28th, 2004, 10:02 pm

Mostly on topic: The Big Fat Con Story (http://www.guardian.co.uk/weekend/story/0,3605,1200549,00.html)

-HollywoodBob

crookshanksmom

April 28th, 2004, 10:14 pm

Sorry for not putting my original post in the right spot :sad: I did a search and thought my ideas were different.

Hufflepuffy

April 29th, 2004, 5:35 am

I haven't seen too much mention of the Atkins diet here...

Let me start by saying that Atkins is not a good diet. Sure people lose weight on it. Sure you get to eat all the meat and cheese you want. But that kind of food is just not good for your heart.

I'm sure if I could convice myself that eating as much bacon and fried eggs every day was good for me, but i'm guess i'm just smarter than that. so i'll stick with my carb laden fruits and vegetables (silly me!)

And it's really sick to see what a big impact it's making on everyday things. My grocery store now has half an aisle of low carb foods, and a lot of restaurants like Ruby Tuesdays are coming out with new low carb menu items.

Fad diets are never the way to go. Weight loss is all about calories in and calories out. It's really not so hard, if people just had some willpower and motivation. But I suppose sitting on the couch eating steak is easier than eating a banana and going to the gym.

rotsiepots

April 29th, 2004, 5:47 am

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
No, I've actually never dieted. I try to eat well and be healthy -- this for me means eating a balanced diet that I think is right for me. I try to avoid eating too much of the same thing (eg I don't just eat carrots all day), so diets where you cut out one or two of the main food groups have never mad sense to me.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
America is an interesting case. Technically speaking, the US is the fattest country in the world (I'm sorry, but it's true!), but the image the US likes to project of itself is of wafer thin and barely there. I think the "thin" image is the desirable image, which is why there's a focus on it.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
I think parents should teach their children responsible eating. I think it's ridiculous for anyone to diet, unless they're overweight. Even so, "dieting" isn't really the word I would use -- "adjusting" their lifestyle is my preferable terminology.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
I went to school with a few girls who just sought attention by bemoaning the fact that they were supposedly "fat". I think some people do have a distorted self body image, but that's quite rare. Most people just want reassurance that they're not fat, I suppose.

Sineed

April 29th, 2004, 2:48 pm

Last year, my family went on vacation to Niagara Falls, a town on the Canada/US border. We had my husband's English cousins with us, so we had to stay on the Canadian side. Even so, the local restaurants catered to American tourists.

Well, the British cousins and I couldn't believe the serving sizes in these restaurants catering to Americans. Each of the individual plates was the size of a serving platter I would use to bring food to a group of people. I couldn't finish half of any of my dinners. So I started ordering appetizers as the main course. But the Americans around us were tucking in, cleaning their plates, and then ordering dessert.

Other Canadians have noticed this as well when they go to border towns, or into the States.

I don't mean to imply that Americans are gluttons or anything. But there seems to be a lot of pressure on them to eat lots. My father, an American, believes it comes from a time not so long ago when most Americans had to work very hard, doing manual labour, like on a farm, and had to eat accordingly. And now, with all the technology, they don't have to do physical labour any more, but haven't scaled back on the eating.

Trouble with that theory is, we have a parallel history here in Canada, and there are lots of fat people here, too. But not like the US.

Wab

April 29th, 2004, 2:58 pm

If the theory held, the same would be true of all post-industrial societies.

Part of the problem is not just the food but the type of food. Highly processed foods have higher calorie counts than most unprocessed and lack the bulk which kills the appetite.

Similiarly "low/no fat" foods tend to replace the flavour lost through fat with sugars which defeats the purpose.

Sineed

April 29th, 2004, 3:12 pm

I think you might have something there, Wab, with respect to the processed foods.

Americans apparently work longer hours per year than most (if not all) other countries in the industrialized world. So maybe they don't have the time to cook meals from scratch, and tend to grab processed foods, which are high in sugars and/or fats. And since the US is the richest country in the world, I would guess that there is a greater availability of these processed foods than in other countries.

There's the whole "super-sized" thing, though, that I don't get. Why on earth is a single-serving 64-ounce bucket of pop a marketable thing?

JofpGallagher

April 29th, 2004, 3:43 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?

Never. Most of my life I have been in the right weight except in a period of time where I got into a bad eating habit, and I gained weight. Then I decided to eat the right amount and healthier, and my weight came back in normal figures. My brother did the Herbalife diet, and he really lost lots of weight. It seems to be some kinda efficient, but I really don’t believe in diets.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?

In my opinion, the reason is simple: Laziness! And I put laziness as a twofold issue: American is lazy (or don’t “have” time) to cook good and healthy food, so they frequently end eating fast food, lots of carbohydrates (Bread), Sodas, etc. Some buy “healthy” food already cooked, but I have seen many people eating healthy food in company of a soda and a twinkie.
The other side of laziness is the lack of physical activity (even in small things like using the stairways). Where I work, I rarely use the elevator since I work in the fourth floor. The times I have used the elevator, it surprises me the amount of people (Normally with some extra pounds) using the elevator to go to the first floor!!!!. In addition, you can always see people in the parking lots “waiting” to find the closest spot possible to the entrance of the store or mall. I always park immediately where I find a free spot not matter if it’s near or not. The other day I saw a guy in a supermarket pushing the store cart to his car. The cart had one….yes….ONE bag!!! I was like….er…that’s being lazy! In addition, with all the paranoia in the U.S. (I have never met a more paranoid society in the world than Americans), parents rarely allow their children to play outdoors, so they are in house playing videogames or watching TV (I guess) and that promotes laziness in my opinion. I had the luck of having a childhood completely in the outdoors!

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?

Eating well. That’s it. If a person or children eats a very well balanced meals, they will rarely have weight problems. In addition, some kind of body activity (playing sports, etc) will not hurt anyone.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?

I think that thin people notice more if they gain 1 pound than a person who already has 25 extra pounds. That’s one of the reason they can go and say “I have put on some weight, I need to diet”

Chrysalis

April 29th, 2004, 3:49 pm

crookshanksmom

April 29th, 2004, 4:20 pm

I'd like to address a few issues here. One, carbs in themselves aren't bad. It's the highly processed carbs you have to look out for, such as white bread, white rice, and simple, refined sugars. Carbs that are found in whole wheat products, oats, and fruits and vegetables are very good for you.
Second, the reason why an American can polish off a HUGE plate of food is because from early childhood, their bodies have been trained to ignore the fullness signals we are given. Children here are ordered to "clean their plates" and if they do, they get desert. I was never forced to eat more than I could handle as a kid, and as a result, when I go to a restaraunt, my meal there is really 2 meals-I eat half that night, then take the rest home for my lunch the following day. Even when I eat at a fast food place, I order a kid's meal because the adult meals have just too much food for me.
Third, I think parents are partly to blame for the increasing size of children in the US. Instead of saying "Why don't you play outside, it's beautiful out!" like my mom did as soon as spring hit, kids are sitting indoors in front of the TV or computer. Also, their parents don't monotor their eating habits until healthy habits are established. I could not drink soda unless I asked for it until I was 11. I wasn't allowed sweets before lunch. I wouldn't be allowed ANY sweets if I didn't at least eat SOME vegetables. As a result, I grew up loving fruits and vegetables and disliking the starchy grossness of processed foods. I make a point of making foods from scratch. And if you don't have time, fruits and vegetables are the ultimate convience food. Most don't even need to be cooked, and if you prefer them cooked, a few minutes in the microwave will get the job done.

HollywoodBob

April 29th, 2004, 4:35 pm

Yeah, I never get that too. In the USA if I want a small size coke I get one that is the same size as the largest one in Europe! What's up with that? And the biggest sizes are HUGE! It baffles me how people can eat and drink that much. When we were in Chicago I ordered pancakes for breakfast at a restaurant. I got two the size of dinner plates and I couldn't even finish one. No offence meant, but why do people eat so much there? I haven't seen this trend anywhere else.I honestly think it's habitual. We eat a too much because we always have. From the time we're little kids we are told to "eat up", "clean our plates" and my favorite "there are kids starving in China..." but science has proven that ends up distroying our natural appetites that tell us when we're full to stop eating. I have a friend, my best friend. He's close to 400lbs (~28 stone). And I used to think it was what he was eating, because he eats a lot of really high fat foods that if I even looked at I'd feel my arteries cloggin' up. But as I got to know him more I realized it wasn't what he was eating it was how he was eating. He'd eat until he was full, then keep eating until he was so stuffed that his stomach hurt. This kind of eating behavior is common, and it must be a habit from years of eating everything in front of you.

I try to avoid the gluttony that's common to Americans, though I will occasionally go to MickyD's and get a supersized BigMac meal. I love the fries, and usually nurse the drink all day long. McDonalds has said they are phasing out the SuperSize option in the near future.

I've been to several, restaurants that use the european style portions and I find it perfectly acceptable to have the small portions, it's how I cook, and normally when I go out I have to take home a "doggy bag" because my meal is more than I want to eat.

-HollywoodBob

JofpGallagher

April 29th, 2004, 5:28 pm

Regarding to the "clean our plates" philosophy, well, I lived with that too. My mother always told us to eat everything and that throwing food away was a sin because there are people hungry and bla bla. The difference with our "clean our plates" was that our plates never contained more food than what we really need. So I wouldn't blame to the "clean our plates" philosophy for kids to tend to gain weight.

Chrysalis

April 29th, 2004, 5:34 pm

You're right jofp, I don't think it's that. My mum always told me to clean my plate to, but I'm far from overweight. Although it's probably true that most people over there will eat till there stomachs are stuffed to burst, it probably has different causes.

HollywoodBob

April 29th, 2004, 5:37 pm

The "clean our plates" thing has less to do with the amount of food given, as it does with the habit of eating everything that's in front of you. Even if they have little more than they need, if a child develops the habit of eating everything on their plate, then when the plate gets bigger and the portions larger, they'll still try to eat it all, even if their hunger isn't there. The habit of eating everything overrides the natural behavior to only eat until your hunger has subsided.

-HollywoodBob

crookshanksmom

April 29th, 2004, 5:42 pm

I was never told to clean my plate. With my parents, it was always "Well, just eat your vegetables." I know I did frustrate them when I had braces, because I would almost always refuse to eat meat. The meat would be stuck in my braces, and cleaning it out was a real pain. During that time, my parents would bribe me to eat just a few bites of meat, offering little treats like an extra half-hour of TV or taking me to the movies. But even then it wasn't eat till you're stuffed, they just wanted me to eat a wide variety of foods to stay healthy.

Hufflepuffy

April 29th, 2004, 11:42 pm

I had the same kind of "clean your plate" kinda parents. We even had a plaque in the kitchen that said "Take all you want, but eat all you take". Plus, the kinds of food my parents cooked a lot were not especially healthy, a lot of fish sticks and tater tots, mac and cheese, spagetti, that sort of thing. I think a lot of the problem with Americans is we're lazy. I'll say it. When I was not a young kid, but maybe 10-16 or so, my parents would get us McDonalds 2 or 3 times a week. Just because they were always working late, and didn't really have time to cook. But now, I'm in charge of cooking and groceries, so we're eating a lot healthier.

Another thing about Americans being so fat, is we really like instant gratification, and losing weight takes a really long time. Like, I've been running 5 miles a day for a few months now, and have only lost 15 pounds. So I think people get discouraged really fast and just give up.

Also, bad food is so easy to get around here. McDonalds and fast food restaraunts are everywhere, and all of them have drive-thrus. You can get sodas and chips and candy in vending machines in almost any building you go in. Most gas stations have a little store where you can buy food and soda. It's just always there, in your face.

rotsiepots

April 30th, 2004, 1:31 am

I don't think children being told to "clean their plates" is a phenomenon exclusive to America. I know my parents tried to induce me to eat everything in front of me by telling my stories about starving children in Africa.

Besides, this concept wouldn't be a problem if there wasn't already so much food on the plate in the first place. Small serving sizes are the way to go.

crookshanksmom

April 30th, 2004, 2:26 am

One part of the problem is people honestly think convience foods (such as those boxed meals you bake in the oven) are faster than anything else. They really are not. You can throw a few chicken breasts in some marinade in the morning, pick up a bag of pre-made salad on your way home from work, and eat the salad while you bake/broil/BBQ the chicken. It takes no more than about 40 minutes-the same ammount of time one of those dinner bakes takes, it's less processed, no harder, and is MUCH healthier. If you want, throw some veggies in the microwave to round out the dinner and have some dried fruit for dessert. Dried fruit is very sweet and takes no prep other than opening up the box. You can make healthy versions of almost any packaged meal. Yesterday I made mac & cheese with some whole wheat noodles and a brick of low-fat cheese, MUCH healthier and tastier than store-bought. Another thing-EAT BREAKFAST! When you eat a healthy breakfast (not pancakes, bacon, and eggs), you are much less likely to binge at lunch or have an unhealthy morning snack. I started making my husband eat breakfast, and he lost 20 lbs after marrying me and nothing else changed!

Sineed

April 30th, 2004, 3:30 am

I think you have the right idea, Crookshanksmom. Maybe kids need to be educated about food in school. And they need to get rid of pop machines in schools because pop is a major contributor to overweight.

I gained 80 pounds with my first pregnancy. I was working in a busy drugstore, eating pre-packaged foods like microwaveable TV dinners, and lots of Haagen Datz ice cream (which is extremely tasty when you're pregnant). After the baby was born, I still had 55 pounds to lose. So I shopped at the supermarket and made meals from scratch, and went for long walks with the baby. And I lost all the extra weight, and it's been nine years. Oh, and it's high carbs all the way!

crookshanksmom

April 30th, 2004, 4:09 pm

What concerns me about diets is almost every one stresses the need to take a multivitamin every day. This concerns me because you are supposed to be getting your nutrients from your food. If you NEED a multivitamin, it means you aren't eating properly. Humans aren't meant to get our nutrion in a tiny capsule, we're meant to get it from our food. And you don't have to get 100% of EVERY SINGLE vitamin/mineral every day, as long as you get enough throughout the week.

FirefightingMuggle

April 30th, 2004, 5:04 pm

I'm going to weigh in :rotfl: on the "clean your plate" issue. I think that this might come from the Depression days. When food was put in front of you, you didn't waste it. You ate what was there, and then if there were left-overs, you had those for lunch the next day. Nothing was wasted, because nobody had the money to waste anything.

Now look at how people ate say even 80 years ago. People cooked with Lard, they ate eggs, sausage, bacon for breakfast. The had fatty foods for dinner. They ate bread with every meal. But the difference between then and now....people worked. A guy would go out in the morning, before breakfast, feed the animals, milk the cows, then go in and eat. Then he would go out and plow, or harvest, or work the fields, then came lunch. Then back out to work. After the sun went down, he quit working and came in for supper. And again the next day. Women would get up, make breakfast, do chores around the house, make lunch, do more housework, make supper...and do it all again the next day. Most people didn't have cars, they walked. People worked harder than they do now, because to survive you had to. Even coal miners, factory workers, people like that had to work harder. More stuff was done by hand, rather than with a machine. It was harder work.
The problems came when the way that we work changed and our eating habits didn't. How many of us can say that we work before breakfast, all morning, all afternoon, until the sun goes down? That's like a 12-14 hour day. How many of us have ever mined coal with a pick and a bucket? How many of us have to walk everywhere, grow our own food, milk our own cows, gather our own eggs? But we still eat like we do.
See back in the day, people were working off all of the calories that they ate. They needed the fat, the carbs, the calories to get them through a hard day at work. Now, we don't do as much manual labor, so we shouldn't need as much food. But we still eat it.

Another thing that bugs me is ALL YOU CAN EAT for $??.?? People go to these places and stuff themselves because they want to make sure they get their money's worth. They want to make sure they have 15.95 worth of peel and eat shrimp, or steak, or salad or whatever. Too much of anything is not good for you. You go to an AUCE place, stuff yourself, and then get overfull. But more and more of the AUCE places are showing up.

I don't necessarily think that we need to cut out any one thing from our diets, I just think that we need to start balancing our diets better and eating smaller portions. I mean, dinner doesn't need to be a 16 oz steak, french fries, green beans, salad, and bread. Have an 8oz steak, a small baked potato, green beans or a salad and skip the bread. You just cut down the fat, by eating a smaller steak, the carbs by skipping bread, and greasy stuff by substituting a baked potato for fries, and your meal is smaller because instead of having a salad and a veggie, you have one or the other. It's still a good meal, just a better portion size.
I think the key to overcoming obesity is more exercise, less food. Don't starve yourself, just limit how much you eat in a single sitting. You can always have a healthy snack later, like carrot sticks, or yogurt.

crookshanksmom

April 30th, 2004, 6:57 pm

I eat a lot more than alot of my female friends, but the difference between me and them is that I exercise alot, so I work it off. I'm also very tall so I need more calories than your average 5'5" 125 lb woman just to maintain my weight. I was a bit heavy when I was around 8 or 9 years old, but around 10 I had a growth spurt and grew into the extra 10 lbs I was carrying around. There are plenty of things you can do for portion control. Instead of eating chips straight out of a bag (unless it's the single-serving kind), put a handful in a bowl and put away the bag. When you go to a restaraunt, cut the portions in half, eat one half and take the second half home in a doggie bag for your lunch or dinner the next day. Put your healthier snacks toward the front of the fridge or cabinets so they are the first thing you see. If you want a piece of candy, have ONE-if you deny yourself now, you're more likely to binge later. And for exercise, simple things can be done. Take the stairs instead of the escalator/elevator. Walk to to corner store to buy milk instead of driving. Park farther away from stores (also, this prevents your car from getting scratched/dinged). If you have an exercise bike/treadmill, put it in your living room and use it while you're watching your favorite evening program. Little things can make all the difference in shedding unwanted pounds. Also, don't compare yourself to models. It'll only erode your self-esteem and make you think "why am I doing this, I'll never look like them". If you had millions of dollars at your disposal, a personal trainer, a personal nutrionist, a health-food cook, and a plastic surgon on speed dial, you'd like them too-but you would also be nothing more than a life-sized barbie doll.

Tane

April 30th, 2004, 7:10 pm

The Atkins diet is definitely something I will never try as it might help you loose weight over a short period but it just does not work in the long term and you also give yourself a higher risk of heart disease or heart attacks. As for the clean your plate, yep I had to do that too, so it's not just an American thing.

Pegasus

April 30th, 2004, 7:19 pm

I'd like to add that there are people who have actually gained weight on the Atkins diet. I tried a milder form of a low-carb, high-protein diet once, and it got me nowhere, except starving--I did much better when I went back to my sensible food-pyramid diet and hit the treadmill and weights more consistently. Keep in mind, I only wanted to lose about 10 pounds.

FirefightingMuggle

April 30th, 2004, 8:00 pm

I actually tried the Atkins thing too. But the first time I had to go to a structure fire, I found that I didn't have as much energy as what I had before I started the diet. Needless to say, I came home and ate a big plate of spaghetti.
It just didn't seem to work for me. I need the carbs to keep my energy level up. Fighting fires isn't a real sedentary thing. You're constatnly doing something, carrying something, moving something....it's hard to do that kind of work without energy. Maybe it's psychological, I don't know, associating less carbs with less energy, but that's why I quit the Atkins thing.
Now, I am also trying to balance out what I eat, and eat smaller portions.

crookshanksmom

April 30th, 2004, 8:28 pm

Atkins has also been associated with high cholestorol, which can lead to a whole slew of health problems. Seriously, how long can you keep eating fried pork rinds, bacon, fatburgers, steak, etc. and keep your body healthy?

Sineed

May 1st, 2004, 3:19 am

My father-in-law went on the Atkins and his cholesterol level went to about 4 times normal. He went off the diet, and his cholesterol level went back down to sort of high-normal. (He was also prescribed a cholesterol-lowering drug, but he told me he refused to take it because he was afraid of side effects.)

What firefightingmuggle said was right, I think; you need carbs for energy.

A friend of my husband said he noticed that an inordinate number of people he knew who went on the Atkins were later diagnosed with cancer. He believed that carbs had some sort of protective effect, perhaps anti-oxidant.

crookshanksmom

May 2nd, 2004, 7:33 pm

The good carbs found in fruits and vegetables definately DO have antioxidents. Steak, pork chops, and eggs don't. The whole carb-phobe thing came about because Americans were eating the WRONG kinds of carbs, such as white bread, white rice, and other foods containing refined sugar and white flour. You can change each of those things very easily-buy whole-wheat bread, brown and/or wild rice, whole-wheat flour, and use honey instead of sugar for sweetening.

Chrysalis

May 3rd, 2004, 9:14 am

I think it's partly also in people's minds. I mean, people on Atkins diet expect to lose weight and they do. Of course the products they eat also have an effect on their health.But it's probably the same kind of thing as people being cured by placebo's.

crookshanksmom

May 3rd, 2004, 4:29 pm

The very sad thing about weight obsession in the US is that people are losing weight only to look better, not because they are concerned about possible health problems due to obesity, such as high blood pressure, high cholestorol, and type2 diabetes. They don't realize that yo-yoing from 150 lbs to 190 lbs every year and trying diet after diet but not exercising or changing the way they eat permanately puts almost as much of a strain on your body as being overweight does, not to mention the mental side effects of constantly failing can put on your psyche!

CRH_Ravenclaw

May 8th, 2004, 12:48 am

Well, no matter how much I eat, I'm still really thin. I have a really high metabilism, so if I eat a lot, I'm jumping off the walls as hyper as a monkey who just drank a lot of caffeine.

Hufflepuffy

May 8th, 2004, 5:37 pm

My friends and I were discussing Atkins at dinner last night. Basically on Atkins bananas and carrots are really bad 'cause they have a lot of sugar, but all you can eat bacon and butter? That's alright. On a new jar of mayo I bought, there was a sticker that said (0 carbs!). Great. Only about a billion grams of fat, but no carbs, so it's ok!

Wab

May 8th, 2004, 6:09 pm

Eat moderately and walk a bit. It ain't rocket science.

crookshanksmom

May 9th, 2004, 6:43 pm

I'd like people to discuss what they think about the fact that weight obsession is all about looking better but not one whit about being healthier. Do you think it's good or bad?

fiorenza

May 9th, 2004, 6:59 pm

I'd like people to discuss what they think about the fact that weight obsession is all about looking better but not one whit about being healthier. Do you think it's good or bad?

Well, where I live at least, it seems like people do obsess about eating because they actually want to be healthier. So many people do yoga/jazzercise/avoid mcdonald's and fast food these days. But yes, there are still many people I know who want to look better AND be healthier (but looking is still a little more important). It's bad, but human. For some people, the urge to please others is the road to pleasing oneself - even though it should be the other way around.

And to comment about Atkins. As the super funny comedians on Vh1 said: People go on the Atkins diet so that when the paramedics come to pick up their bodies after they die from a heart attack, there will be less weight to lift. Diet fads are silly.

Liselle

May 9th, 2004, 10:31 pm

Raw Foodisim~ As has been said, raw fruit and veggies are grand, in fact it is realised that they are better for you than cooked for the most part. I don't claim to know much about Raw Foodisim in general though but if its advocating raw meat/fish/poultry etc then its dangerous and disgusting. Thumbs down to raw foodisim

Atkins: You will die of a heart attack if you consume that amount of animal fat I think. Thumbs down to that

Basically I think that people are better off sticking to the general food pyramid, ok alot of people cut down on the carbs but its just dangerous to cut them all out. Basically moderation is key (and a bit of will power to stay away from the bad stuff :lol: that helps too) as does cutting back on alcohol consumption and drinking more water and exercise.

Diets are fads as far as I can see

crookshanksmom

May 10th, 2004, 2:53 pm

The problem with carbs is Atkins and other low-carb diets have made ALL carbs seem the enemy instead of making refined carbs such as white breads and refined sugar the enemy. With raw foods-I need my meat dead and cooked or I'll get sick. However, I love raw fruits and veggies-to me, they are the ultimate convience food. You open the fridge and grab something and go-no heating up required!

Midnightsfire

June 7th, 2004, 9:44 am

I saw this so I thought I'd toss it in here:

Christians Preach Bible-inspired Diet (http://www.mlive.com/newsflash/health/index.ssf?/base/national-2/1086543857131100.xml)

SHELBY, N.C. (AP) — The Rev. George Malkmus often preaches about how he believes the world of proper eating began — or, in his opinion, vegan.

"The Lord gave us everything we need in the Garden of Eden: fruits, vegetables, nuts and seeds," the preacher-turned-diet adviser said in an interview at Hallelujah Acres, his North Carolina headquarters. "That's why we call the way we eat the 'Hallelujah Diet.' We celebrate its true creator." Malkmus's diet is one of a batch of Bible-based eating plans flooding bookstores and health food stores. Last summer's "What Would Jesus Eat?" by Dr. Don Colbert, encourages eating non-animal-derived "living foods" and eschewing most "dead" or processed foods.

"The Weigh Down Diet" by Gwen Shamblin offers few food restrictions but encourages following "God's perfect boundaries of hunger and fullness."

Malkmus's diet — which draws, he says, from Genesis 1:29 — bans all animal products except for honey and promotes an 80 percent raw diet.

And there's the newest addition to the growing Christian health genre, Jordan S. Rubin's "The Maker's Diet." Drawn from the book of Leviticus, Rubin's diet encourages eating certain meat and dairy products and warns against an all-raw, vegan regimen.

"The healthiest diet is to consume meats, poultry, dairy, fruits and vegetables and to consume them in a form the body was designed for," Rubin said. He advises eating foods in their most organic and least-processed forms. Dairy, for instance, should not be pasteurized and defatted and pumped with hormones but rather taken as a yogurt drink derived from raw, fermented milk.

Meat or vegan? Raw or cooked? The abundance of allegedly godly guidance is enough to make the would-be dieter pray for divine intervention.

Elisabetta Politi, nutrition manager at Duke University's Diet and Fitness Center in Durham, hopes people don't take the proposed diets too seriously.

"I am just thinking of the safety of having unprocessed dairy products. From a public health perspective, it's undoable," Politi said of Rubin's push for raw milk. "It's an extreme going back to an agriculture society that we are no longer."

There's nothing new about religious beliefs dictating what people put in their mouths. Some Jews keep kosher, while observant Muslims adhere to dietary requirements called halal. Generations of Catholics grew up not eating meat on Fridays.

But the new God-based diets target two specific audiences not generally thought of as compatible — evangelical Christians and what Politi calls the "back to nature" health buffs who gravitate toward an organic way of eating.

Rubin, a Messianic Jew, says he is a member of both clans. He peddles supplements and lifestyle products to the health food industry through his Garden of Life company. At the same time, he describes himself as a "biblical health coach."

"My ministry is to help change the health of this world one life at a time," he said.

Similar claims by Malkmus, Shamblin and others rankle those who see spinning the $40 billion diet industry to a Christian audience as just another way of using God as a gimmick.

"It's not just cashing in," said Stephen Barrett, a Columbia University-trained psychologist and founder of the Internet site "Quackwatch."

"I think that the people who promote these things, they're here to save the world and they preach and they're the Messiah (of health). Their personalities and characters have all sorts of grandiosity" and little scientific basis, Barrett said.

Politi applauds the focus on healthy eating, but adds, "I don't think it has to be confused with God."

Mainstream nutritional or medical credentials are hard to come by in this crowd. Rubin says he holds degrees in naturopathic medicine and nutrition, but both involved unaccredited programs and his degrees couldn't be verified.

Malkmus, who said he is not currently affiliated with a specific church, has no formal scientific training. But he does employ a researcher who determined that the Hallelujah diet was deficient in vitamin B-12.

"This shocked me, that God's perfect eating plan could have a flaw," Malkmus said. "But we realized that fruits and vegetables back then were more nutritious because of the topsoil."

Barrett sees the 70-year-old Malkmus — who claims he healed his own colon cancer through diet but doesn't furnish medical records — as the best of a bad lot.

"Malkmus has a little more ethics than (others)," he said.

Malkmus's argument that people who ate a raw diet in biblical times lived an average of 912 years gets little more than a laugh from Barrett and Politi.

"It can't be scientifically tested or proven," Barrett said of the contention.

Rubin claims his diet cured his Crohn's disease and sells dietary supplements under the Garden of Life label

Politi says she is "just very, very wary of the supplement industry" because it's not regulated, the claims aren't scientifically proven and it's expensive.

Rubin also recently launched a line of "advanced hygiene" soaps and argues that The Maker's Diet is about more than just eating — it's a whole way of life.

"When God gave me this health message I knew it would have a major impact on the world," he said. "Just as the Bible is the best selling book in history, I see no reason why 'The Maker's Diet' can't be the best selling health book in history."

crookshanksmom

June 7th, 2004, 4:44 pm

That's scary, although I'm wary of any diet that requests that you cut out entire basic food groups. Veganism, in particular, is disturbing, because they're always saying how we aren't "made" to eat meat. Excuse me, but we have the teeth for it-we have tearing teeth (like those found in carnivores), biting teeth (like those found in horses), and grinding teeth (like those found in grazers who graze on corser grasses and herbs).

I recently read in the June Glamour magazine that Atkins will only work as long as you are reducing calories. HUH?? Won't reducing calories but having carbs in your diet also work??

rotsiepots

June 8th, 2004, 1:48 am

I think the Atkins diet is only an enormous fad in the US. I don't know anyone here on the Atkins diet and no one I know discusses or contemplates "carbs" when they buy food. I try not to eat bread 10 times a day, but I eat wheat and bread for breakfast without so much as a guilty conscience.

Personally, I think in 20 years we'll see an increase in the rate of bowel cancer and people are going to wonder why.

Ragdrazi

June 8th, 2004, 5:16 am

la_ginny

June 8th, 2004, 5:31 am

Oh, its worst then that. We’re going to start seeing heart disease. The thing about Atkins is that you do loose weight quickly, because you’re eating so much protein, and protein keeps you from feeling hungry. Without hunger you don’t eat, so you don’t gain weight. But the problem is, you’re blood is just full of animal fat all the time. Most animal fat is bad for your heart. More then that, low fat diets work more slowly, but they’re better on your heart, and end up in the long run loosing you more weight.

But low fat is dieing. America has found a diet completely congruent with its ideals. Its fast, cheap, dirty, and ultimately harmful. We like to buy now and pay. . . ahhhhh. . . whenever. . .
So true. I HATE the Atkins diet. Can I say that? I'm not saying that I hate its creator, or anyone who is on it. But I agree with so many dieticians who say Atkins is unhealthy, especially long-term. The sad thing is that so many in the food and restaurant industry are ignoring this and jumping on the low-carb bandwagon. I swear, if I go to one more restaurant with it's new "all meat" Atkins menu, I could scream. The latest is low-carb milk. MILK?!!? Whatever happened to the old-fashioned stuff our moms told us -- Drink your (regular) milk because it will make you grow up big and strong.

I don't know where the success stories are on this diet, either. I have lots of friends trying to lose weight, but they're all making lifestyle changes. One has joined a gym, and another has started Weight Watchers (a generally sensible diet). But I feel like the nation's carbs are being sucked into the Black Hole of Atkins.

To top it off, I'm a dancer, so I need carbs. AND, I'm a vegetarian, so all this meat-only junk in stores and restaurants just makes it that much more difficult for me to find something I can eat.

Ok, I'll get off my soapbox now. *grins sheepishly*

ETA: Oh, and :welcome: to the boards, Ragdrazi!!

crookshanksmom

June 8th, 2004, 6:01 am

I'm actually against vegetarianism too. Humans are meant to eat meat as part of our diet. If we were not, we would not have the teeth for tearing and grinding meat.

Elocin4684

June 8th, 2004, 10:05 am

Ugg... I am so tired of hearing about Atkins. My roommate last semester was on the Atkins and she was the same size as me (which would be really tiny). All her friends were on it, too, and none of them probably weighed more that 130 pounds. Also, all that red meat that the diet calls for can't be that healthy. It's kind of funny. People have been saying red meat clogs your arteries and you shouldn't consume too much of it but now that it can help you loose weight, we all should eat 20 pounds of it a day! Also, I think people on the Atkins don't worry about wether the food is healthy or not; all they worry about is how many carbs it has. Low carbs does not equal healthy food. I say Down With Atkins! (I'm so tired of hearing about it!)

rotsiepots

June 8th, 2004, 12:46 pm

Haven't people on the Atkins diet worked out that carbs are actually rather tasty? I think food is one of life's great pleasures, and to deny yourself pasta, or bread, or whatever the heck else is classified as a "carb" these days is just insanity! If I was hungry, I wouldn't turn down a bowl of spinach and ricotta filled tortellini, or pumpernickel for the world.

And yes, la_ginny, you're quite entitled to hate the Atkins diet. We can hate it together, although as I said earlier, it's more or less unheard of over here. :)

Neon Phoenix

June 8th, 2004, 3:05 pm

I also hate the low-carb craze.

A diet should consist of at least 60% carbohydrates, especially for athletes and active people, as they are the main source for energy metabolism and the only source of energy for the brain. I guess people are getting so lazy and stupid that they no longer need to fuel their bodies and brains.

A good point was made earlier about bowel cancer....foods rich in carbs are often great sources of fiber as well, which is something many people overlook in their diet.

There are other low-carb diets that don't prescribe eating more red meat. Theoretically, since carbohydrates make up so much of your diet, if you cut carbs you will be cutting calories as well, and the ultimate healthy dieting goal should be, simply, to burn more calories than you put in. However, now that everything is being processed and produced to have as few carbs as possible, the "carb-cutting" philosophy will backfire because people, thinking "hey, this has no carbs, therefore it's good for me," will pack themselves with food that has no nutritional benefit, essentially increasing their intake of empty calories.

A better dieting philosophy, yet still appealing to fast-paced people, would simply be to eat smaller servings. It takes less time and money to prepare smaller meal portions, and it also takes less time to eat.

crookshanksmom

June 8th, 2004, 5:42 pm

I went food shopping today and found a shocking number of items marked "low carb" that any sane person would realize are not healthy. For example, Hellman's mayonaise (Best Foods for west-coast Americans) advertises itself as a "low carb" food, while failing to mention how high in fat it is.

A reason why so many people like the Atkin's diet. It promises quick results, and we live in a "I want it now" society. Also, it doesn't call for alot of fresh fruits and vegetables, and as Americans generally get only 10% of their nutrition from fruits and veggies, it's especially appealing.

pasalita

June 8th, 2004, 6:00 pm

Is that true about the Atkins diet?

My boyfriend and myself have taken to the Zone diet which, above all else, simply asks that one eats healthy food in moderate proportions three times a day. It's a diet that identifies good fats as necessary to any diet and, in truth, lets one eat whatever they want so long as it is balanced accordingly. In the Zone diet, there are 3 categories under which food falls: Protein, Carbohydrates, and Fats. It's a diet that, yes, acknowledges that low carb is more beneficial, but also submits that it is essential to balance low carb with healthy protein and good fats. "Low carbs", thus, really translates into cutting out eating habits that consistently revolve around pastas, breads, and the like, and, instead, concentrates on fresh fruits and vegies as one's source of carbohydrates.

It's great because, since it asks that one eats a lot of fresh fruits and vegetables, I'm also able to contribute directly back to local farms in that I'm to stock my produce by going to local farmers' markets.

But, again, that is not to say that one can't have yummy pasta or a PB&J on the Zone - one just has to know how to balance the meal out with the appropriate portion of protein and good fats.

It's a great eating lifestyle, but it acknowledges that people like to break from discipline now and again.

crookshanksmom

June 8th, 2004, 6:05 pm

I honestly think people don't really understand the difference between "bad" carbs and "good" carbs. "Bad" carbs which should be limited include white bread made with bleached flour, refined sugars (white, brown, powdered, and corn syrup), and white rice (all nutrients bleached out). No one discusses good carbs, which include whole grains (found in whole-wheat or cracked wheat bread), wild and/or brown rice, oats (oatmeal is only one), and high-fiber fruits and vegetables. People hear "carb" and automatically think "oh my god, it's bad for me" which is untrue. People should hear "refined" and think "that's not that healthy".

pasalita

June 8th, 2004, 6:19 pm

That would be the best diet evah - Zone plus organic conscientiousness. I'll have to apply that more often.

crookshanksmom

June 8th, 2004, 10:16 pm

That would be the best diet evah - Zone plus organic conscientiousness. I'll have to apply that more often.

The Zone is not all that healthy. It's just Atkins revisited. Any diet that limits any form of nutrient-packed food (like carbs) is unhealthy. The best diets recommend following a healthy eating plan, lowering calorie and fat intake, and limiting the ammount of highly processed and/or sugary foods. Any certified dietician or nutritionist who would make a meal plan for you would tell you the exact same thing.

Ragdrazi

June 8th, 2004, 10:54 pm

I'm actually against vegetarianism too. Humans are meant to eat meat as part of our diet. If we were not, we would not have the teeth for tearing and grinding meat.Well, no, the flat teeth are for grinding plants. It’s the incisors that people point to when they say we need meat. But the truth is we aren’t predestined to be meat eaters. We are however, predestined to need a certain amount of protein, in addition to other things, to keep going. How you get it is really up to you. You could get your protein from meat or from peanuts. It’s really all the same.

Oh, and, um. . . thanks for the welcome. :)

pasalita

June 8th, 2004, 10:56 pm

The Zone is not all that healthy. It's just Atkins revisited. Any diet that limits any form of nutrient-packed food (like carbs) is unhealthy. The best diets recommend following a healthy eating plan, lowering calorie and fat intake, and limiting the ammount of highly processed and/or sugary foods. Any certified dietician or nutritionist who would make a meal plan for you would tell you the exact same thing.

Hm. That's sounds like a judgement call depending on the person and clearly, I beg to differ. For me, I always thought that the Atkins came after the Zone (the Zone diet, as I understand it, has been written about for the past 8-10 years, but implemented naturally in certain cultures.)

In any case, as I had mentioned in my previous post, it doesn't ask one to limit anything. It asks that one simply eat food in moderation. Hence, I don't necessarily regard it as a "diet" because it doesn't ask one to limit what one eats. I almost wish they would call it the "Zone eating lifestyle" instead of "Zone diet" because "diet", again, gives the impression that one has to limit what type of food they should eat (i.e. eating less = loosing weight.)

To tell you the truth, since I've been on the Zone, I eat more than I did when I wasn't on a "diet", and I've been eating almost nothing but non-processed foods/fresh foods more now than ever in my life. (Of course, I allow myself to have disgusting, yummy goodies once in a while. I'm only human.) I've been on the Zone for about 2 years now and it's helped me maintain my current weight (i.e. I've neither gained weight nor lost a large amount of weight).

If we're looking at this discussion from the carb side of the prism, then the Zone "diet" simply states that if you're going to have a type of carb, no matter what the carb, it should be balanced with an appropriate protein and good fat. Ideally, one should look to create a well-balanced Zone meal, and measuring the meal is based on eating equal amounts of carb, protein, and fat blocks. As for me, I don't necessarily take into account my calorie intake simply because I don't know how cooking what I cook converts natural fats, sugars, and the like into caloric heat that we count as "calories" (i.e. I don't eat from packages, so I wouldn't necessarily know.)

Fat intake isn't necessarily bad because it is required for the digestive process, i.e the intake of good fats helps slow down the digestive process, thereby helping a person stay "full" for a longer amount of time. If one feels full longer, they're less likely to snack between meals or even gorde themselves at a successive meal. The importance is in identifying good fats. Almonds. Oils that are essentially monosaturated fats, ideally "cold-pressed". Avocados.

The problem is in cholesterol levels, not fat. Cholesterol is a by-product of, for one, eating heavily fatty meats like steaks and the like. Hence, those on the Atkins, in which "high protein, low carb," is the motto, can be prone to higher cholesterol levels.

To me, the Zone diet is one of the best "diets" out there because it does exactly what you describe, and it was created by a nutritionist: It recommends following a healthy eating plan (eat 3 times a day, i.e. don't skip breakfast) and limiting the amount of highly processed and/or sugary foods. However, since most people start out undisciplined to a diet, or it's sometimes difficult to make sure every meal is a zone meal when travelling or what not, it gives a good basis for understanding how one can still strive to eat healthily if not in "control" of the cooking.

As not everyone can afford to visit a dietician or nutritionist, I would recommend the Zone diet. You don't drop weight or inches quickly, so it doesn't fool with your metabolism. It asks to up one's intake of fresh fruits and vegies, as well as stick to non-high-fatty meats for proteins (and even suggests good alternatives to "meat" for protein), and it alerts one to good fats. :tu:

crookshanksmom

June 9th, 2004, 4:32 am

I aplogize-I mixed up the Zone with the new "South Beach Diet", which is similiar to Atkins. Your mentioning breakfast was a real big point for me :tu: . Too many americans skip breakfast, a big weight-loss, weight-maintenence no-no. If you skip breakfast, you're more likely to either snack on unhealthy foods before lunch for the "sugar rush" they'll give you or gorge at your lunchtime, both of which are unhealthy, for both your body and your figure. Another thing: Limiting your intake of highly processed foods is a great idea for everyone. Most of us eat alot of packaged, over-processed foods. It's kind of understandable-you spent 9 hours in the office and another hour battling traffic coming home. You, your spouse, and the kids are hungry but you're tired and want to relax with a cup of tea and some music. So you open that box, pop it in the oven, and with under 10 minute prep time, you've got a meal cooking. Strong allue, unfortunately, bad for the body. Once in a while, it's OK. It's when 90% of your meals come from a box that it's bad. So go ahead and have that chocolate bar with almonds-today. Tomorrow, eat some extra veggies and fruits to make up for it!

Sweetie

June 10th, 2004, 5:47 pm

i know this thread is horribly like the vegetarian/vegan one but i want to ask somthin.

How so? Vegetarianism/veganism and the animal rights movement is not a fad diet in the least.

No offence meant, but why do people eat so much there?

We don't ;) Well, I'm sure that there are some people who do, but I hardly know anyone who actually eats portions that large. It's just how much they serve, not how much people actually eat ;)

crookshanksmom

June 11th, 2004, 7:48 pm

One reason why restaraunts serve so much food is that people really want to "get their money's worth". Don't ask me why people think they are getting their money's worth if half their meal is going in the garbage, but some people do. I personally take home half or more of any restaraunt meal and make it my lucn the following day. I do think they should close down buffets though. Those places really do encourage over eating. Seriously, who wants to stuff their faces with 10 plates of food for $9.95?

Elocin4684

June 12th, 2004, 5:15 am

I agree that people have just jumped on Atkins because it's a fad. It's come to the attention of the FDA that a lot of products boasting that they are low carb are actually living out key ingredients when counting carbs. And I know a lot of skinny people on the diet, too. That can't be healthy. How can one not eat bread and pasta? I almost live off those!

la_ginny

June 12th, 2004, 9:15 am

More thoughts on the Atkins craze:

A friend went to the store the other day to get an alfredo sauce for a dinner I was cooking. The store only had two kinds -- low-carb and regular. The low-carb alfredo sauce had TWICE the fat as the regular sauce. Ick! I just can't understand that.

Also, at least here in the U.S., I'm starting to feel like there's a giant conspiracy of commerce to suck all the carbs (and thus the goodness!) out of our lives. Well, maybe I'm being overdramatic, but really, I've been seeing tons of commercials for the Atkins diet itself. One commercial showed some guy talking about how the low-carb life was so great for him that he met a beautiful girlfriend because he was buying some low-carb food item that he would not normally have bought. The pitch was essentially, "You should try the Atkins diet, because then you'll get a beautiful girlfriend too!". *Too bad you'll spend only half your adult life with her because you'll likely both keel over from heart disease before you can celebrate your 15th anniversary.*

Chrysalis

June 12th, 2004, 10:53 am

Well, no, the flat teeth are for grinding plants. It’s the incisors that people point to when they say we need meat. But the truth is we aren’t predestined to be meat eaters. We are however, predestined to need a certain amount of protein, in addition to other things, to keep going. How you get it is really up to you. You could get your protein from meat or from peanuts. It’s really all the same.

Oh, and, um. . . thanks for the welcome. :)

Yeah, you're right, also if you(I'm not specifically referring to you here) compare our incisors to those of omnivores such as chimps you'll notice that they're quite blunt. So I don't buy that argument that human's teeth are mean to tear flesh, on the contrary, they are meant for grinding plants.

I don't quite understand why people are so against vegetarianism. It's not a fad diet, and it's not bad for health. It doesn't endorse high fat or low carbs. You don't need special products to prepare veggie food. So really, even if you think it's unhealthy, well it's not hurting anyone else.

HollywoodBob

June 12th, 2004, 3:38 pm

Incisors are for cutting foliage, canines are for tearing meat, and molars are for grinding it all up. Don't believe me? Look at the incisors of a sheep, they're razor sharp for snipping grasses.

The reason humans are meant to be OMNIvores is because we need the essential fatty acids and other nutrients in meats. Sure they can be gotten from vitamin supplements, but when was the last time you saw a vitamin supplement bush/tree?

I've got no problem with vegetarions, but considering that vegan/and veggie diets haven't been around that long (considering the course of human history) they are just a fad that stuck. Macrobiotic diets have been around for ages, but they always contained small amounts of meat, people need some of the things in meat to maintain proper functioning of their bodies.

-HollywoodBob

Chrysalis

June 12th, 2004, 3:51 pm

Actually veggie diets have been around much longer, only not in the West. There were plenty of orthodox vegetarians in India, much before the advent of flower-power. Don't try to refute me, I should know.:D My family has a long history of them.

There are even certain tribes that don't eat meat. Scientific studies have shown that their intestines have evolved and become much longer than say the ones of Inuit(not Eskimo's!) who survive on a diet consisting mainly of raw meat.

Unless you say that vegetarianism is wrong because it didn't start in the West.

Tane

June 12th, 2004, 3:54 pm

HollywoodBob

June 12th, 2004, 4:28 pm

Sweetie

June 12th, 2004, 5:45 pm

See, when I think of a "fad diet" I tend to think of things such as Atkins and the "grapefruit diet" and such. When I think of all the vegetarians and vegans I know, most are motivated either by environmental or ethical reasons (and for some, their concerns about the hormones and antibiotics found in many animal products), not the "lose weight quick" motivation that I see as part of a fad diet.

Wab

June 12th, 2004, 5:57 pm

It's far better to demostrate a bit of common sense and restraint and not get overweight in the first place.

ndn189

June 12th, 2004, 6:45 pm

I agree! an indian vegetarian diet is the best! I know this first hand ! No one in my family ever has to diet. we fast when its an important day. like on mondays..i eat one meal..like one meal means no grains unitl that one meal...its does the body good..my mom says it gives your tummy rest...
oh and if you go on some other diet..make sure to eat plenty of dairy products..you become fat from the loss of those fat cells..this makes your body produce more..so it takes you longer to lose weight..just some tips..
also make sure to eat small portions..and not over stuff your self..that makes you gain weight quickly..

Chrysalis

June 12th, 2004, 7:44 pm

Well see, you're talking about vegetarianism as a cultural/social behavior. I'm talking about it from an anthropological standpoint. The vegetarian culture has been around for a few millennia, where as people have been around for roughly a hundred thousand years. And most of the religious/ethical basis for vegetarianism is the concept that you shouldn't kill/harm another living creature, or with many in India, it's an economical concern since maintaining a vegetarian diet is cheaper than buying meat.

You might check out this link: Vegetarianism in India (http://www.sscnet.ucla.edu/southasia/Culture/Cuisine/vegetar.html) I found it rather interesting.

But my points still remain true: that vegetarianism is a relatively new concept to humans; that people need animal products for amino acids, essential fatty acids, calcium; and that our teeth are designed for eating a variety of food types; and there aren't vitamin supplement bushes. :D

A vegetarian diet has no more drawbacks/benefits than and diet that restricts the types of foods you can eat. We've all been told since we were little that a balanced diet, one with meats, veggies, fruits, grains, and fats is the healthiest way to eat. And if you want to stay fit and thin, you should eat enough (not too much), eat the right things, and exercise regularly.

-HollywoodBob

You can get the right amino acids without having to eat meat. You just need to balance your intake of vegetables differently.

I eat a balanced diet, although I do not really get enough excercise(I hate sports!), and do not have the time for it furthermore, I am healthy and slim. I have been so since I was born. I eat a healthy, balanced diet, I just don't eat meat. It's perfectly possible. All proteins from meat can be gained from eating other things. Unlike fad diets such as Atkins, one is not completely cutting off an...energy source(sorry, I have forgotten the word, I don't live in an English speaking country). Becoming a vegetarian does not mean that one completely cuts proteins or iron out from one's diet.

Besides, what we eat depends on where we live. Inuit are forced to eat raw meat because they live in the poles, where starting a fire is not possible. In a country like the Netherlands, there are not as many vegetables and fruits as in a tropical country. Of course religion also plays a role. I believe that traditionally Christians aren't supposed to eat certain animals also and/or not supposed to eat them at a certain time of the year. Hindus don't eat beef, and most also don't eat pork. Only brahmins don't eat meat at all, although it varies. I know some brahmins who eat chicken and all and some eat fish. Although this is a fairly recent phenomenon I think. And muslims are of course not allowed to pork, and neither are Jews, I think. Anyhoo, the point is, culture plays an important role in what we eat, and vegetarianism also can't be called a fad diet because:
1. Fad diets are about losing weight and most people chose to become a vegetarian because of ethical reasons.
2. Vegetarianism might not have been around long enough compared to the history of humanity, but it has certainly lasted much longer than fad diets, since it reaches back thousands of years, and therefore calling it a 'fad' is almost offensive to those who practice it.

Besides, even though you seem to present so many advantages to eating meat, I will never do so. In the same way that most people feel they can't stay away from meat, I can't bear to touch it. I once accidentally ate chicken(the airline got their catering mixed up) and I didn't like the taste and texture. Besides, I was repulsed by the thought of eating something that was so close to a human being. Yes, I consider any animal close to human. On the one hand people will say that one needs to eat animals to obtain the essential amino acids, and on the other hand they claim that 'animals are far removed from humans'. But anyway, I dare not think of eating red meat.*shudders* Imagine the taste of blood...

Moreover, it's every person's right to eat what they want. I don't try to convert you to vegetarianism. So no need for you to do the opposite.

This post is veering dangerously off-topic, but anyway...

ndn189

June 13th, 2004, 12:03 am

Im a brahmin and my dad..he travels everywhere..so he doesn't mind eating meat..and i used to eat meat as well..i just recently stopped..i decided to follow to some of the rules..my grandmother still doesn't eat meat..not even eggs..she hasn't touched meat ever..same with my mom..so yea..its pretty strict..and i don't think you really need much exercise after eating such a healthy meal..but personally..home made indian food is wayy better than that in restarants..at least here in the U.S...i don't know about UK..haven't been there..my parents have though..and they said the restaurant food is pretty good..

Chrysalis

June 13th, 2004, 8:00 am

My dad used to eat meat when he went to college in the USA. He said he stopped when he had a car accident and he had been in a coma for a week, I think. He said that from then on he felt he had no right to kill other animals.

The Indian food in the restaurants here is pretty tasty, and it's good in the UK too.

Although an Indian vegetarian diet is no guarantee that you'll stay slim. Rice and vegetables and roti and dahl may be low in calories, but using too much ghee and snacking too much in between meals can still contribute to obesity.

tizzy weasley

June 14th, 2004, 12:40 am

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
Actually yes. My parents got everyone in the house on the South Beach diet. My parents thing we are all overweight and want to loose weight to stay healty. Btw- lost 8 pounds in 4 days...no sugar or carbs.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
I believe its the fast food and the mass media. People follow trends set by media. Or they see a commercial for a fast food place and think "mm...sounds good" and keeps ordering the same thing. I'm not saying everyone American does this, but its just my opinion.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
Self Confidence. As a young girl, I know and saw how others treated each other. I saw girls , and still do btw, talk about another girl being fat and somehow that girl has heard it...and will feel sorry and eat more. All girls just need self confidence and self control.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Because of what they see. They see a picture in a magazine and see how skinny the models are. They don't think about how the photographer touched up everything to make the picture look perfect. Its once again the mass media. The radios, magazines, newspapers,and especially the television give what the girls/audience want.

crookshanksmom

June 14th, 2004, 1:01 am

Loosing weight can be important to some people especially if it prevents them from doing what they use to be capable of achieving in sport for example or daily routine. When weight becomes such a problem then dieting is important but not in the form of these fad diets out there. If you eat sensibly and cut out the in-between meals, you will find out that the weight comes off. If you want to loose weight stick to three meals evenly spaced out in one day and it will fall off as your giving your digestion system enough time to distribute the nutrients efficiently. The problem comes when you want to keep the weight off all the time because it is maintaining the three meals a day thing that some find difficult. Exercise is the key to loosing weight to, no point in dieting if you’re not going to exercise really. Personally I would not entertain such fad diets as Atkins.

Actually, the "three square meal" thing is not healthy. All it does is cause your blood sugar to rise, then plummet before your next meal time hits, which leads to craving unhealthy things and binging at the next meal. Nutritionists will tell you that it is much healthier to either eat 5 or 6 small meals a day, every 2 or 3 hours or so, or eat 3 small meals and 2 healthy snacks. This prevents a plummet in your blood sugar, prevents cravings, revs up your metabolism, gives you more energy so you burn more calories even at rest. The problem is most people think "snack" and instead of thinking apples or toast with a bit of peanut butter, they think chips and candy bars, which can also cause a sugar high then "crashing". An ideal meal will contain a fruit or vegetable to give you the quick burst of energy from the fructose (natural sugar), a complex carbohydrate (whole grain) to keep your blood sugar level after the quick burst of energy wears out (it takes the intestines longer to digest complex carbs), and a meat or legume with a bit of fat for a full feeling that will last a bit longer. Guess what? A very simple meal can accomplish this-a peanut butter and all-fruit spread (not jelly, contains too much refined sugar) on whole wheat bread. Takes 5 minutes to make, you can steam some veggies to round it off for fiber if you wish, and as a bonus, if you are a vegan, even you can eat this!

About fasting: Not healthy one bit. All it does is mess up your metabolism, making you more prone to unhealthy weight gain.

And about not exercising: You cannot claim to be healthy when you don't bother to exercise, no matter how slender you are. Exercise does good things for the body. It gets your heart pumping, lowers your cholestorol, keeps your heart healthy, releases endorphines ("feel-good" chemicals) in your brain which can help stave off depression, and honestly-a thin person who exercises is always more attractive than a thin person who doesn't. They just have a healthier look about them, a kind of "glow" that a lazy thin person does not have.

haycheng

June 18th, 2004, 2:44 am

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
No. I do want to be more stick about my diet such as lower fat, lower sodium. I just want to live longer. A diet is part of the way to achieve long, health life.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
May be. Americans are extreme people. I would be surprise that 50% overweight. Most of the people who go through so call diet can not stick to it anyway.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
I really can not understand women mental. I can understand people want to be health but go through painful diet to look good is beyond my understanding.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
I have not met such a person yet.

mevam

June 18th, 2004, 8:26 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
No, I don't have the desire to starve my body, thankyouverymuch. It's very unhealthy to go on the fad diets because they all end up giving you the yo-yo effect where your weight fluctuates dangerously, and that can seriously mess up your metabolism. They've just published a study where a group of researchers found that the more fad diets people went on when they were teens, the more likely they were to be obese.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
It's a combination of lifestyle and diet, and the fact that people would rather drive to the nearest shopping mart than cart their butts off and walk a little. The North American diet consists of far too many high-calorie high-fat ready made foods, which only contribute to the rising obesity rates. It's an epidemic.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
We need to stop buying them the stupid teen magazines with 5'11 115lb models, and give them some hobbies besides looking pretty for boys. This is an issue about confidence, and about being strong enough to dispel any myths the media teaches us about what the "right" body type is.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Probably for most of them its to get attention, because they have such little confidence, they need someone else to constantly reassure them that they're actually thin. Some of them, however, probably do believe that they are overweight, and so for them its also a measure of their confidence.

hermionefan20

June 19th, 2004, 8:02 am

crookshanksmom

June 19th, 2004, 4:46 pm

I think the whole raw food thing, and the diet industry in general, is pretty much a joke. Healthy food and exercise, that's the only real way to do it... every other way seems to have some horrible side affect.

So true. But we all want a quick and easy way to "fix" problems. Exercising and eating a blanced diet is hard.

HollywoodBob

June 20th, 2004, 3:37 pm

I think this says it all
Today's UserFriendly(site doesn't support remote linking) (http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20040620)

-HollywoodBob

crookshanksmom

June 20th, 2004, 4:07 pm

Actually, HollywoodBob, that explained nothing. I'm more confused now than when I opened this thread.

HollywoodBob

June 20th, 2004, 4:28 pm

Sorry about that, the site doesn't support remote linking of images.

I fixed it with just a link.

-HollywoodBob

crookshanksmom

June 20th, 2004, 10:17 pm

Funny, but it still doesn't solve the problem of Americans eating too many refined carbs (sugars and white flours and such). But at least some places are showing how insane it is to structure your life around no carbs.

Another reason why I am basically against vegetarianism is because our brains are the size they are because pre-man started eating meat. If we had remained nomadic herbavores, our brains would never have progressed beyond the size of Homo Habalis. We wouldn't have the creature comforts we do now. I am particularly against a vegetarian and low-fat diet in children, because kid's brains need fat to develop to their full potential. If kids don't get the fat and protein they need to develop their brains, they will basically be stupid for no reason at all.

Chrysalis

July 24th, 2004, 6:45 am

LOL about that last post. Till my 5th(11th grade?) year I was one of the best students of every year. Our family is mostly vegetarian and yet is full of doctors and engineers. My mother's uncle is a world famous neurophysician. Besides, a veggie diet is not necessarily low fat. Not to brag, but just to demonstrate that a vegetarian diet has nothing to do with intelligence.

I am against Atkins diet because it is unbalanced. Too much fat and too little carbs. Too much of anything is not good.

Pegasus

July 24th, 2004, 9:19 pm

If kids don't get the fat and protein they need to develop their brains, they will basically be stupid for no reason at all.
Which is why baby formula has plenty of fat in it (like mother's milk) and after the first birthday they tell you to feed your kids whole milk until they're about three.
However, I've also heard that 2% is better, because the whole milk push has helped to contribute to overweight kids. My oldest daughter drank 2% until I noticed she was getting a little chunky and was eating a lot of peanut butter. I started feeding her skim along with the rest of us but kept the peanut butter. She's nearly six now and one of the smartest kids I've ever seen.
Fats are essential, but getting enough fat isn't exactly a problem in today's society. If you just eat wisely (lean meats (or the substitutes vegetarians seem to have mastered), whole grains, dairy, lots of fruit and veg) get your exercise, and watch the sweets, you'll get all your nutrients and stay plenty healthy. (I'm sure there are exceptions, but this is in general.)

Firebolt_2007

July 24th, 2004, 10:29 pm

All diets work if you have enough will power and strength to stick with them and do them right. The problem is, people who are overweight don't stick to them.

Rising Phoenix

July 25th, 2004, 2:59 am

All diets work if you have enough will power and strength to stick with them and do them right. The problem is, people who are overweight don't stick to them.
Not necessarily true. In all honesty, simple eating right and regular exercise will work for the vast majority of people. Fad diets like the Atkins Plan et. al. are just that...fads. Look at them down the line, and it is quite clear that many of them simply cannot work long term. The unbalanced nature of such diets, as has been stated, is what may ultimately make you less healthy in the future, but who cares, you're thin right? :p
<mindless rant>Let me stick to Atkins as an example (the only one I have a true problem with). It seems that people's ignorance will make them blindly follow anything. Ask a Atkins-er what "carb" stands for, and they probably won't respond "carbohydrate." In addition ask them what carbs do, and it's "make you fat." Buzz...wrong. Carbs, calories, etc. are necessary for everyday life. They provide energy and IF NOT UTILIZED turn to fat. It comes down to eating in moderation, and making the most of the nutrients and energy provided. </mindless rant>

crookshanksmom

July 25th, 2004, 5:30 am

Which is why baby formula has plenty of fat in it (like mother's milk) and after the first birthday they tell you to feed your kids whole milk until they're about three.
However, I've also heard that 2% is better, because the whole milk push has helped to contribute to overweight kids. My oldest daughter drank 2% until I noticed she was getting a little chunky and was eating a lot of peanut butter. I started feeding her skim along with the rest of us but kept the peanut butter. She's nearly six now and one of the smartest kids I've ever seen.
Fats are essential, but getting enough fat isn't exactly a problem in today's society. If you just eat wisely (lean meats (or the substitutes vegetarians seem to have mastered), whole grains, dairy, lots of fruit and veg) get your exercise, and watch the sweets, you'll get all your nutrients and stay plenty healthy. (I'm sure there are exceptions, but this is in general.)

Infant formulas are hardly the proper nutrition for babies under a year. The vast majority of infant formulas are made out of 2 things-cow's milk with additives, or soy with additives. Cow's milk is for cow babies, the balance of fats, protiens, vitamins, and trace minerals is everything a cow baby needs to grow properly. It is not designed for consumption by human babies. Soy does even less than formula designed around cow's milk. If you want a smart, THIN, and healthy baby, feed them the food nature designed to fit their every need-your own breast milk. If you, for whatever reason, see breasts as men's sexual playthings instead of tools to feed children, pump your milk and give it to your baby in a bottle.

Dedalus Diggle

July 25th, 2004, 6:46 am

If you, for whatever reason, see breasts as men's sexual playthings instead of tools to feed children, pump your milk and give it to your baby in a bottle.
It is not an either/or matter - both roles are good, proper and part of the plan for our kind.

Spikey

July 25th, 2004, 10:46 pm

All Diets are evil :p There is just one letter between diet and DIE think about it :)

Nickel

July 26th, 2004, 1:33 am

If you want a smart, THIN, and healthy baby, feed them the food nature designed to fit their every need-your own breast milk. If you, for whatever reason, see breasts as men's sexual playthings instead of tools to feed children, pump your milk and give it to your baby in a bottle.

Hem hem, not all children who are fed formula are unintelligent. I know of many children (or now adults) who are very intelligent and were fed formula.

Pegasus

July 26th, 2004, 5:26 pm

Infant formulas are hardly the proper nutrition for babies under a year. The vast majority of infant formulas are made out of 2 things-cow's milk with additives, or soy with additives. Cow's milk is for cow babies, the balance of fats, protiens, vitamins, and trace minerals is everything a cow baby needs to grow properly. It is not designed for consumption by human babies. Soy does even less than formula designed around cow's milk. If you want a smart, THIN, and healthy baby, feed them the food nature designed to fit their every need-your own breast milk. If you, for whatever reason, see breasts as men's sexual playthings instead of tools to feed children, pump your milk and give it to your baby in a bottle.
Do you know how many babies would starve if they didn't have infant formula? Like the slogan goes, breast is best, but it's not for everyone. My oldest daughter nearly starved to death before my doctor handed me a bottle and a can of formula and said "Use it." She is one of the most intelligent 5-year-olds I know--the one I talked about in the homeschooling thread. My cousin was as militant as you, but she simply wasn't producing enough milk, and they threatened social services on her before she finally "stooped" to a bottle. Her little baby is now thriving and healthy.
Not every mother produces enough milk, not every baby can nurse, and the guilt militants cause in some very good mothers is the last thing they need.

Kimmetje

July 26th, 2004, 7:00 pm

what do you all think about raw foodism?
I think people shouldn't do it, because when you eat healthy you don't have to eat raw food. We always eat vegetables and I'm not too heavy or anything of that kind.

do u think the media influences or discurages RF?
I think that the commercial world is enjoying it as they make a lot of money, like the Atkins thing it probably works, but how much weight will you lose? I don't think that it all works.

are u a raw fooder or know someone who is?
No.

codswallop

July 26th, 2004, 7:12 pm

Aramina

July 26th, 2004, 9:50 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
None; I know people who're on the Atkins (one in specific) who lost weight, and then promptly gained it back
2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
Not enough exercise, not eating right, etc. They take away recess for young kids in school and wonder why the kids get fat. Never mind that the kids eat sugar and all that **** whenever they get the chance and spend almost eight full hours a day sitting at a desk. Oh no, inactivity and eating fatty, sugary foods doesn't make those kids fat. (note the sarcasm here)
3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
well, for one thing, show them healthy people who aren't stick thin and are still beautiful
4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Some are, compared to how they usually are. One of my friends eats like a horse (she's been known eat an entire box of Poptarts in one afternoon) and is still very tall and lean. When she gains weight, she starts to consider herself fat, because to her, weighing any more than she normally does is becoming, well, fat. However, most of the time they think they're fat because of what other people (parents, friends, etc.) say about them.

Let me start by saying that Atkins is not a good diet. Sure people lose weight on it. Sure you get to eat all the meat and cheese you want. But that kind of food is just not good for your heart.

I'm sure if I could convice myself that eating as much bacon and fried eggs every day was good for me, but i'm guess i'm just smarter than that. so i'll stick with my carb laden fruits and vegetables (silly me!)

I wish I could convince my dad that we need to eat more fruits and veggies as opposed to meat. We have meat *every* night and only have veggies maybe every other night. Fruit is virtually nonexistant. And we're not on Atkins, he just thinks we need 'lots of protein', never mind that what we really need is lots of healthy food. And he wonders why he's overweight and having health problems...At least I weight-train and do a bit of cardio instead of laying around and watching tv all day; and I drink water instead of Coke and Dr.Pepper like my dad and brother do (only for dinner, but I just don't understand why anyone would want to drink carbonated sugar-water; eww)

I'd like people to discuss what they think about the fact that weight obsession is all about looking better but not one whit about being healthier. Do you think it's good or bad?
I've just recently decided to go on a 'diet' as I know I'm overweight (see above about the kind of junk my dad insists my family eat). I've decided to eat less (Dad can get over it) and do weight-training and cardio. Cardio one day, weight-train the next, etc.

I can't do much about the kind of food we get, though, but I try to eat fairly healthy stuff (like Honey-Nut Cheerios for breakfast) because I'm starting to get sick of meat. I'm probably gonna start eating meat like once a week once I graduate and move out; my body does not seem to be appreciating the overabundance of it I'm getting now. Besides, one of the healthiest and happiest people I know is a vegan. She eats everything but meat and exercises daily and she (at 29) looks like she's still a teenager.

Just to weigh in on the breastfeeding thing: mother's milk is still best for a baby, but only if she can provide enough of it and only if she's eating the right foods (ie. those that actually make it the way it is supposed to be). I personally would not give my kids anything other than breast milk unless mine wasn't giving the baby all the nutrients he/she is supposed to be getting or if I couldn't provide enough of it.

red_fairy

July 26th, 2004, 9:54 pm

All I can say is that if one more restaurant comes out with another Atkins approved meal, I'm going to scream!

~Tonks~

July 29th, 2004, 9:03 pm

Do you know how many babies would starve if they didn't have infant formula? Like the slogan goes, breast is best, but it's not for everyone. My oldest daughter nearly starved to death before my doctor handed me a bottle and a can of formula and said "Use it." She is one of the most intelligent 5-year-olds I know--the one I talked about in the homeschooling thread. My cousin was as militant as you, but she simply wasn't producing enough milk, and they threatened social services on her before she finally "stooped" to a bottle. Her little baby is now thriving and healthy.
Not every mother produces enough milk, not every baby can nurse, and the guilt militants cause in some very good mothers is the last thing they need.

Amen sister. My mom tried for weeks to breast feed me like a "good" mother should and I was becoming more and more sickly. I kept spitting it all up and she couldn't produce enough. After she put me on formula my health quickly recovered and then some.

Last time I checked, I didn't have any diseases, I've never been overweight, and I've always excelled in my studies and ventures.

I'm sick of crazy militants from the LaLeche League badgering young mothers and making them feel insecure and worthless if they can't breast feed or don't want to, for whatever reason. There's a lot more to creating a bond with your baby and making sure it's healthy than sticking your nipple in its mouth.

crookshanksmom

August 1st, 2004, 8:09 pm

Most women can breast feed, at least a little bit. If you're not producing enough, supplement, don't just give formula.

Let's get into this a little more: Cows eat grass. They do not have a varied diet. Grass is what they need to eat, other things could make them sick. Humans are designed to eat a much more varied diet. Those nutrients you consume get passed throughout your body-even into your milk. And those vitamins and trace minerals are much more readily absorbed in your infant that additives in formula. You can even see and smell it in the stools of infants-a breast-fed's baby's stools tend to have very little odor (until he/she starts solids). A bottle-fed's baby's stools tend to be harder and more smelly, meaning there is more "waste" in those stools. Why buy expensive formulas if most of it is going to wind up in the diaper? And while formula-fed infants can be smart, long-term studies have shown that on average, a breast-fed baby's IQ is up to 5 points higher. Those 5 points could make a world of difference in classifying a child as mentally retarded or "normal". The women I don't like are the ones who never even try to give their kids the best. If you try and you just don't produce enough, it's one thing. If you never even tried in the first place, why did you have that baby at all?

Pegasus

August 4th, 2004, 2:33 am

I don't think you get it. With many mothers, it is milk production, but sometimes it's the babies. While my second baby got right into nursing and wouldn't take a bottle (I weaned her to a cup when it was time), my first baby nearly starved to death because SHE WOULDN'T NURSE. She was born with a severe tongue thrust and it was just too much work. I fought it for months. I also tried pumping, but it was one of the most painful, unproductive experiences of my life. I have learned that IT'S OKAY to give formula, and DOES NOT make you a bad mom!
I've known lots of women with similar problems, so it's hardly isolated. For example, my nephew was born before he developed a sucking reflex, and my sister has as much trouble pumping as I do.
I would also add that by the time you figure out the problem, your milk can already be nearly dried up. It's just not that cut and dry.
Edit:I just caught this part: If you never even tried in the first place, why did you have that baby at all?
I know a very good mother who simply does not want to breastfeed. She has several well-adjusted, well-loved children. Why have the baby at all? Are you saying women who choose not to breastfeed have no right to be a mother? That's just ridiculous. To breastfeed or not is a highly personal matter.
SO ANYWAY. Since this is not a breastfeeding thread...My original point was that it's dangerous to take dairy products out of your diet, and a great way to get osteoporosis.

Kirsten

August 4th, 2004, 8:50 am

It's better for babies to be breastfed, but it's not always possible. No big deal.

Someone mentioned above about lack of exercise contributing to the US obesity problem. I read yesterday that the average American walks only 350 yards a day - less than 75 miles per year. (That's from a study by the University of California into walking habits - I don't have time to find a link). 350 yards? No wonder there's an obesity crisis.

Pegasus

August 4th, 2004, 5:11 pm

Exactly. Bike riding, etc. are much more common in Europe and Asia than in America. It seems that Americans don't want to exercise, so they're looking for that magic pill. The most ridiculous "magic pill" blurbs I've heard are people saying, "I don't like to exercise, I like to sit and watch sports and eat, and with this (insert magic potion), I can do what I like and still lose weight! It's amazing!"

loopdeedoo123

August 4th, 2004, 5:30 pm

crookshanksmom

August 4th, 2004, 5:52 pm

(I don't know if this is off-topic, I didn't really read what everyone else said.)

I think that there are three main reasons for obesity and fatness:

1. No exercise. People need exercise to burn off fat and also just to keep healthy.
2. Too big servings. Restaurants need to stop serving so much food. Big servings are then perceived as normal, and people eat that at home.
3. What your diet includes. Of course you're not going to be healthy if you eat McDonald's every day, even if it is in small proportions. Stick to your green vegetables!!

I think that people need to stay off of fad diets and just stick to these three things. They're simple, but true.

While your post is true, there is one thing that disturbs me, and that is saying stick to the green. You'd be missing out on many nutrients if you ate only green vegetables. Don't forget the reds, yellows, oranges, and the various colors of fruits also! And about raw foods, some veggies are much better raw than cooked because cooking can cook the nutrients right out of the veggies. But some are actually better cooked. For example, cooking tomatoes and tomato products brings out the best in a certain nutrient (I've forgotten the name) that can help prevent prostate cancer in men. Meats should always be cooked thoughly before eating simply to prevent food poisining, which can kill you.

loopdeedoo123

August 4th, 2004, 5:58 pm

crookshanksmom

August 4th, 2004, 6:08 pm

When I said stick to the green, I just meant have a vegetable every day. I don't think that we should only eat green vegetables. It's just that's what mothers always say :-)
Sorry I didn't make that clearer. I think it's important that we eat a well-balanced diet. Thanks for your concern.

hey, i'm the first one on page 5!!

Sorry I misunderstood. It is true that Americans don't eat enough vegetables. Even a greasy pizza-fest can be made slightly healthier by getting a veggie pizza. And we got to get moving. I think these stupid pills have nothing more than a placebo effect. People believe they work, so therefore they do. If you want to get thinner, the only way to do it is to eat right and exercise. Just becoming boarderline anorexic isn't going to make you any healthier.

FreyaCrescent

August 4th, 2004, 6:16 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
I've never followed a fad diet, like Atkins or the cabbage soup diet or what have you, but I have dieted by cutting down on junk and eating more healthily, and of course exercising. I don't like fad diets, and from what I've seen, once you lose the weight and go back to eating your normal diet, the weight seems to creep back on. I also don't trust them because of health issues - to me, the Atkins diet seems like a heart attack waiting to happen.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
Well we have a similar problem in the UK, I remember when a report came out saying a large majority of people were obese. I think, like almost everyone here has said, that it's down to laziness. Not just laziness as in not exercising, but laziness in how we eat. We rely too heavily on 'fast' food. Like Pegasus said, people are waiting for the magic pill that will make all the weight disappear without us putting in the effort.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
I think it's a matter of improving people's self confidence, and showing that you don't have to be super skinny to be beautiful. Also, the media projects the image that you should be slim - a lot of magazines are always ready to poke fun if a celebrity shows signs of gaining a little weight. I think I first starting becoming insecure about my weight when I was about 8 - I remember crying to my mum and being really depressed that 'no-one would ever like me because I was too fat.'. I had such low self confidence. Now I'm older (and hopefully a little wiser), so I'm just cutting back on the junk food, eating more healthily, and exercising. And it works much better than any fad diet.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Sometimes it might be for attention. But often it might just be for reassurance - like I said above, a matter of self confidence. It also might be because of what they see all around them, in magazine photographs and the like. Like tizzy weasley said, people don't realise that images are touched up and air brushed and what have you so the models look perfect.

Athina

August 4th, 2004, 6:58 pm

Not all diets are bad for you or are fad diets. Look at weightwatchers, they advocate making lifestyle changes. You can eat whatever you want as long as you include 5 servings of veggies, milk products, and lots of water. I think if people stopped looking for a quick fix to their weight problems and followed a healthy lifestyle it would help.
The problem is, it's not as easy as it sounds. It takes 21 consecutive days for a person to make a habit, losing weight is a lot of the time as hard as quitting smoking because your behaviour that made you fat is a hardwired habit.
My two cents

loopdeedoo123

August 4th, 2004, 7:01 pm

I agree. I don't think that all diets are bad, but i think that it's also good to exercise. People should eat healthier, too. But, like you said, is a hard habit to break.

DragonBlk17

August 4th, 2004, 7:03 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
No,I don't like taking diet...but I exercise alot and eat fruits and vegetables.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
Some people may get it from there parents, or others may just get hungry all the time.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
Tell them to do activities outside, do better in gym and eat healthy fruits and veggies.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Because they see actresses and singers who look skinnier then that person, so they want to be exactly like the actress or singer

PrtVeela

August 4th, 2004, 7:23 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
When I was in my early teens (13 and 14) I wanted to follow the fad diets, but I always failed. I was absolutley obsessed with how I looked at that age.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
Because people beleive that if they excersise, they can eat whatever they want, or if they follow certain rules of a diet then if they eat something bad, one will cancel out the other. It also has a lot, at least I believe, to do with all of the processed food we eat. In many other countries (well I know in France anyway? :lol) some stores are with in walking distance and many people pick up the things they need from day to day, thus letting them eat fresher and more healthier foods. Well here in the great old U.S. of A, we like to buy in bulk and weeks in advance, so the word "fresh" is only used on special occasions ;). But in all honesty I believe that if our over processed over preservative laden food obsession was lessened somewhat things would be different.

That, however, would only curve the problem slightly, it also is dependent on our views of exersising, that you shouldn't exersise for anyone else, or to look like anyone else, or to be like anyone else it should be a personal thing.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
That beauty and self image are completley subjective, that being 'beautiful' is not dependent on what size/shape you are. That your self-worth should never be based on how you look on the outside.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat? I think a lot of it is attention, and 'fishing for compliments'. Which generally also means they feel really insecure about themselves and need reassurance from their peers at all times.

RemusLupinFan

August 4th, 2004, 7:41 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
I have never followed a fad diet, and I probably never will.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
I think a lot of it has to do with lifestyle and genetics. There are many people who don't get enough daily exercise and there are lots of people who don't eat right. A good diet that includes variety and a daily exercise regimine could probably help a lot of people. In the way of genetics, it has been shown that there are certain genes that predispose or contribute to obesity. Furthermore, these genes tend to run in families. In this case, it's not the individual's fault and there may be little they can do to lose weight.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
I believe the media is largely responsible for showing girls images of extremely thin supermodels and such. But I believe the parents and families of young girls can do a lot to prevent them from needing to diet and from feeling negatively about their self image.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
It has a lot to do with a person's self image. Many times girls have a distorted image of themselves, which leads them to believe they are fat when, in truth, they are thin.

crookshanksmom

August 4th, 2004, 8:37 pm

I don't really think that lifestyle changes can be called "diets". To me (and most people) a diet is a short-term thing. Something to make you lose weight right now, and once you are at your desired weight, you can go back to your previous habits. A lifestyle change, on the other hand, means you will continue to eat this new way, long after you have reached your goal.

And about the processed food thing: I do think Americans eat far too many processed foods. I mean, come on we have entire meals in box form now! What happened to a nice home-cooked meal? Or turkey sandwiches with some steamed broccoli when you get home too late to cook? But buying in bulk isn't that bad, if you buy good stuff. We have an extra freezer, and when they have sales on meats and frozen veggies, we tend to stock up, vacuum pack the excess, and put it away for later. We're on a pretty tight budget, and buying in bulk is one of the ways we have learned to save. Although we're thinking of expanding our veggie garden next summer for more fresh produce.

Scarlet Tears

August 7th, 2004, 5:12 am

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
I've never followed a fad diet. However, I have also been blessed with a fast metabolism, so I am one of the few fortunate ones who doesn't have to worry too much about my weight.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
I believe that there are a combination of factors that have made our population so overweight. These include lifestyle choices, large portion sizes, laziness/lack of exercise, reliance on fad diets, fast food addictions, genetics, etc. Also the issue of processed food, as PrtVeela and Crookshanksmom mentioned.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
It is a shame that so much emphasis is placed on weight in our society, and I think that the majority of it stems from the media's portrayal of beauty. It is unfair to classify all overweight people as unattractive simply because of the ideal that is portrayed in the media. I think that if more young people are made aware of this, as well as being taught from a young age to have a more positive self-image by their parents/peers, it will help alleviate the situation.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Most of it is probably just for the attention, a sort of fishing-for-compliments type of thing. Other times it could be for reassurance or to boost confidence. In rare cases, it is caused a more serious problem that could lead to anorexia or similar diseases. The problem with this is that it makes overweight girls even more self-conscious because they think that if their thinner friend sees herself as fat, then they must be seriously overweight. I've seen the effect that this has on people, and it saddens me to think how hurtful such seemingly innocent statements really are.

gred&forge4ever

August 7th, 2004, 11:44 pm

[QUOTE=Scarlet Tears]1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?

Yes, Atkins, I went on it 2 years ago lost 30 pounds when from a size 12 to an 8 and have maintained. I chose Atkins becasue I hate rice and pasta, so those are 2 or the 4 big carb groups. I think that many people who do Atkins chose to do it badly. I ate and still eat only LEAN meats and I ate more veggies(green) on Atkins than I ever did before. Plus I ate lots of fish. After the intial weight lost, I s-l-o-w-l-y reintrouduced healty carbs into my life. I eat low-carb whole wheat tortilla wraps instead of bread( I will have a piece of Italian bread or a piece of pizza once in a while). I eat soy and flaxseed chips when I wan to junk out. I basically buy the low-carb version of things that I like yougurt for example. In terms of fruit I eat all the lower sugar fruits like berries and melon. I eat 2 oranges a week as well, as those are good carbs. I do eat couscous about once a week, and when I do opt for higher carb food, it is in small portions. I do eat carrots mixed in a veggie medley and I eat lots of spinich. I do take vitiamans as I eat very little potassium. Things that I have NEVER gone back to eating are apples and bananas and I eat potatos maybe once a month. Ironcially however, I rarely ate what I gave up while on Atkins anyway. :). Energy lose was never a problem, but I did and do exercise 4 times a week. :)

B]2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight? [/B]
1. Lack of time, people work way too much and have too little family time to encourage everyone to get out and bike or walk or cook healty meals. It takes time.
2. Computer and TV
3. Being overweight is becoming socially acceptable as it along with many other bad habits are being labelled diseases.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?

-moms and other female role models showing a healty relationship with food and their bodies
-limiting media exposure to kids
4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
See above. :0. However, what I have noticed in my area is that girls who are fat in terms of having layers are rolls of fats think NOTHING of wearing a belly-shirt. I would not wear one until my abs were toned,

crookshanksmom

August 15th, 2004, 4:37 pm

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?[/B]
See above. :0. However, what I have noticed in my area is that girls who are fat in terms of having layers are rolls of fats think NOTHING of wearing a belly-shirt. I would not wear one until my abs were toned,

The sad thing is, I have a very toned body and feel frankly frightened for my life if I was to step outside wearing a shirt revealing my stomach. I'm not anorexic, and instead of being scrawny, I am strong. People are so very against people who weigh anything above 120 lbs that I'd be afraid that people would beat me up if I wore anything more revealing that a shirt that shows a little bit a cleavage and a skirt that is more than 3 inches above the knee.

gred&forge4ever

August 15th, 2004, 7:00 pm

The sad thing is, I have a very toned body and feel frankly frightened for my life if I was to step outside wearing a shirt revealing my stomach. I'm not anorexic, and instead of being scrawny, I am strong. People are so very against people who weigh anything above 120 lbs that I'd be afraid that people would beat me up if I wore anything more revealing that a shirt that shows a little bit a cleavage and a skirt that is more than 3 inches above the knee.

I wear belly shirts If it is really hot out. You have a toned body crookshanksmom. Flaunt it! :lol

crookshanksmom

August 15th, 2004, 7:04 pm

I wear belly shirts If it is really hot out. You have a toned body crookshanksmom. Flaunt it! :lol

I do at the beach. But if I'm going to a party or something, I don't want to get dirty looks for not being anorexic, so I tone it down. I'd LOVE to be able to wear cute & sexy clothes without fearing personal or mental injury.

Chrysalis

August 16th, 2004, 8:57 am

Nah, who cares if they give you dirty looks. You know you look good.:)

Sorcha

August 17th, 2004, 4:59 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?

South Beach, honestly because my parents were on it. They lost alot of weight too, about 100 lbs between the two of them.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?

Because people are too lazy or don't have enough willpower to lose the weight and keep it off. Also because of fast food. I have a problem with all three, but luckily I have a pretty fast metabolism. My mom says that won't last long.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?

Well, some do need to, but most just need to eat healthy. It's starting to get better, it seems to me. Celebrities aren't incredibly skinny, they look healthy. Excluding Lara Flynn Boyle of course...and Calista Flockhart, but they both gained a bit of weight.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?

Because they may have fat on them, instead of muscle. So that's what they focus on, is that little bit.

Aquaria

August 17th, 2004, 5:12 pm

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?

Actually, it's a very big spoof when you look into the supermarkets. Americans have everything fat reduced and so on. But fat reduced doesn't automatically mean little calories. And fat reduced chips are still very fat. So if you just see fat reduced and eat twice as much because you don't need to feel guilty about it...

Also: If you go into an american restaurant, one portion is about one and a half to two times as big as one in europe. (Just think super-size. We don't even have something like that in our McDonald's restaurants)
Your stomach adjusts to that and you need more and more to fill it. That's why these stomach-operations are so popular. You actually could do the same by just reducing your food intake for a day or two until your stomach shrinks. It works I've tried it.
the only problem is, it enlarges even faster. You need a lot of discipline that I sadly don't really have.

And the last point: Coke, Sprite, Dr. Pepper's, Pepsi...
Sugar, sugar, sugar, calories, calories, calories.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?
Either it's all about fishing for compliments. "no, you're not fat, you look georgeous!"

Or they just notice even tiny little changes in their body fat because they are really seriously into keeping their weight at exactly the same level.

Or they're aneurexic. Aneurexia is a serious sickness that mainly involves a completely currupt feeling for your own body.

I've only lately read a very interesting article about it.
There is this one scientist that apparently found out that aneurexic people have kind of "deactivated" parts of their brain that are responsible for handling visuals.
This means: If the skinniest, boniest girl looks into the mirror, she might actually have no chance to see her the way others do because her mind cannot see her as being skinny.
This is a very big part in therapy. To make the girls see themselves and not the "fat monster" that's buned into their brain.

Wab

August 17th, 2004, 5:28 pm

Americans have everything fat reduced and so on. But fat reduced doesn't automatically mean little calories. And fat reduced chips are still very fat. So if you just see fat reduced and eat twice as much because you don't need to feel guilty about it...

Fat and flavour often go together so when the fat is removed the flavour is usually augmented by sugar which packs as many, or more, kilojoules.

Aquaria

August 17th, 2004, 6:40 pm

Fat and flavour often go together so when the fat is removed the flavour is usually augmented by sugar which packs as many, or more, kilojoules.

That explains it...

And for all those who would like to lose weight:
I'd suggest strawberries. Fat free, natural, healthy and yummy!

megan amelia

August 17th, 2004, 7:19 pm

1. Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why? I can honestly say that I have tried the Atkins diet once just to lose a quick 15 pounds. But it was the worst thing I ever did. When a diet is a fad diet and is pumped up so much by the media, those who start on it expect to the awesome results right away just because all those people in the books and on TV had those results. But the reality of the issue is that every body is made completely differently starting on the inside. So just becuase one person lost a lot of weight one way, a different person may gain weight that same way.

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight? I believe that a huge number of our population is overweight because of all the commercialized and industrialized food that is eaten by our society today. So many people today think that just because something is labeled "low fat," it's completely healthy. And this is DEFINITELY not the case. So many of those so called hidden things have horrible and VERY unhealthy ingredients in them. Just look at labels today and see how many items have hydrogenated oils or high fructose corn syrup which have both been proven to be harmful.

3. What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age? That's a very hard question becuase healthy and fit in our culture is looked to be fat according to media standards.

4. Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat? Only becuase that's what they've been told since they were young by magazines, TY, movies, and even sometimes they're own families.

crookshanksmom

August 21st, 2004, 9:22 pm

2. With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight? I believe that a huge number of our population is overweight because of all the commercialized and industrialized food that is eaten by our society today. So many people today think that just because something is labeled "low fat," it's completely healthy. And this is DEFINITELY not the case. So many of those so called hidden things have horrible and VERY unhealthy ingredients in them. Just look at labels today and see how many items have hydrogenated oils or high fructose corn syrup which have both been proven to be harmful.

I personally think hydroginated oil should be banned from all foods. That stuff is like a death sentance, raising your bad cholestorl and lowering your good cholestorol. Eating lard is better for you than that junk! Seriously, when people eat, they should think "Is this what humans were intended to eat? Would my ancestors have eaten like this?" If they thought like that, they might very well put alot less junk in their bodies, and snack more on fruits, veggies, cheeses, and the like rather than chip, candies, and cookies. Add that to the fact that I read in the September issue of Cosmo (American) that Americans get 30% of their nutrtition daily from things like chips, pastries, and colas! No wonder we have not only an obesity problem, but health problems like type 2 diabetes, heart disease, and hardening of the arteries even in thin people!

gred&forge4ever

August 21st, 2004, 10:30 pm

BTW- We went to Ruby Tuesday last ngiht for dinner and they had nice normal sized portions. :)

crookshanksmom

August 21st, 2004, 10:38 pm

BTW- We went to Ruby Tuesday last ngiht for dinner and they had nice normal sized portions. :)

In some ways, I like the larger-sized portions at most restaraunts. I can make 2 or 3 meals out of it, so I don't have to worry about cooking for a couple of days!

jo schmo

August 21st, 2004, 10:39 pm

diets are a load of **. people should eat what they want. if they are unhappy about how they look the only way to lose weight is to exercise and or have less carbohydrates.

crookshanksmom

August 21st, 2004, 10:48 pm

diets are a load of **. people should eat what they want. if they are unhappy about how they look the only way to lose weight is to exercise and or have less carbohydrates.

Why exactly do you think carbohydrate is a dirty word? It's not, you know. Good for you things like fruits and veggies have carbs in them. Are you suggesting people should become complete carnivores and stop eating all fruits and vegetables? Oh, and what about whole grains and oats, who told you they are bad for you and make you fat? If they did, that person is seriously stupid, because the only carbs you have to watch out for are refined WHITE flours and sugars-white bread, pastries and stuff like that. Whole grain breads, oat meals and other stuff like that is good for you-it helps absorb fat and pass it out of your body in your stools (great for keeping a good cholestorol) and scrubs your arteries.

HollywoodBob

August 21st, 2004, 10:51 pm

Carbs are not the problem with people being overweight. **** that Atkins guy!

It's about eating too much, and not exercising enough.

I recently started working construction, and since then I've lost quite a bit of weight even though I eat tons of carbs, enough to make Atkins roll over in his grave yet I'm not a morbidly obese person like all the anti-carb weirdos claim I should be. Sure there are some carbs you should try to avoid, refined sugars and flours, but the key to maintaining a healthy weight is to stop stuffing yourself until you're ready to pop, and get your behemoth backside off the couch. Do that you'll stay a healthy weight. You don't have to follow some fad diet that could seriously damage your body. And more importantly you don't have to adhere to some idealistic vision of beauty marketed by fashion magazines and reinforced by a society dumb enough to believe that beauty only appears on the cover of a magazine. That being said, I'm gonna go eat a sandwich, with BREAD!! :D

-HollywoodBob

crookshanksmom

August 21st, 2004, 10:55 pm

LOL HollywoodBob. At the moment, I'm cooking an old-fashioned pot roast for dinner with <gasp> white potatoes. Niether me nor my husband are obese. We are not even overweight. We both eat normal-sized portions, stay away from unhealthy snack foods like chips, cookies, pastries, and candies, and exercise daily. And know what? We actually look better than most chronic dieters out there, because we're healthy rather than thin-obsessed, which is what "dieting" should be about-making your body healthy, not looking like some anorexic magazine model.

HollywoodBob

October 22nd, 2004, 7:14 am

busy91

October 22nd, 2004, 3:09 pm

What do you all think about raw foodism?
Like everything else, it is a lifestyle. I have no problem with whatever people want to do.

Do u think the media influences or discurages RF?
It mostly discourages it, it surely doesn't influence it. Not with all the fast food and beef commercials.

are u a raw fooder or know someone who is?
Nope and Nope

Have you ever followed a fad diet? Which one and why?
Well Raw Foodism isn't a fad diet. I did do it for a month for a detox. I was also a vegetarian for about 2 years, not that that is a fad diet either. I tried to Sommersize, but gave up quickly as the food combining was beyond me.

With all the obsession over thinness in the US, why do you believe over 50% of the population is overweight?
Because when it comes down to it, people really would rather eat than be thin. Either way you are going to be unhealthy, too thin, or too heavy. People should find a happy median. Easier said than done.

Another problem is lack of excersise. We all say we are going to, but it is hard to find time in a busy lifestyle.

What do you believe you can do to prevent little girls and young women from feeling the need to diet at such a young age?
Make them feel good about the way they look. Show them that women come in all different sizes. Show them role models who aren't super thin, but successful and pretty (ie Queen Latifah, Star Jones).

Why do you believe girls who are thin are always saying they are fat?

Peer pressure and Media I say cause this. I never said I was fat when I was young. I was 5 11 and weighed 125 lbs, so there was no way I was getting away with that one. But back in the 80s, many of us did not follow the Kate Moss' of the world, we were happy with the way we looked.

Spew Member

October 22nd, 2004, 4:14 pm

Did anyone get a chance to see "The Biggest Loser" (http://www.nbc.com/The_Biggest_Loser/) the new weight loss reality show on NBC?

Basically 14 overweight people get a chance to win $250,000 if they are the one to loose the most weight.

If you got a chance to see it what'd you think of it?

-HollywoodBob

I haven't seen it, but it looked interesting. I was wondering, how long do they give them to loose weight, and do they take into account that everyone looses weight at different rates? I didn't get to watch it so I don't know what it was like, but I hope they teach them healthy habits for loosing weight so that people can learn from it, and not bad crash diet kind of habits.

HollywoodBob

October 22nd, 2004, 4:18 pm

I haven't seen it, but it looked interesting. I was wondering, how long do they give them to loose weight, and do they take into account that everyone looses weight at different rates? I didn't get to watch it so I don't know what it was like, but I hope they teach them healthy habits for loosing weight so that people can learn from it, and not bad crash diet kind of habits.They weighed them after a week of dieting and exercise, I'm assuming it'll continue that way. Some people lost just a few pounds (the girl that got voted out only lost 5) and some people lost over 20 pounds. But they had them of strict diets and exercising constantly.

-HollywoodBob

Spew Member

October 22nd, 2004, 4:32 pm

Kirsten

October 22nd, 2004, 4:37 pm

As I said on the obesity thread, why would anyone trust the Atkins diet when it lets you eat pork scratchings and limits broccoli?

Spew Member

October 22nd, 2004, 4:58 pm

As I said on the obesity thread, why would anyone trust the Atkins diet when it lets you eat pork scratchings and limits broccoli?

I don't know why people would think that. When I worked at a coffee shop, every other person was counting carbs it seemed like. I was constantly having to pull out the half and half and the non fat milk so that they could compare the carbs. So many people requested half and half instead of the non-fat milk. I don't drink milk, but if I had to choose between that and half and half I think the milk would be a better option. I guess it didn't really matter all that much in the end though, because they were ordering the half and half with caramel syrup or chocolate syrup and what not. Go figure. :shrug:

Kirsten

October 22nd, 2004, 7:11 pm

For the Brits, please explain what half-and-half is! I have no idea!

HollywoodBob

October 22nd, 2004, 7:21 pm

For the Brits, please explain what half-and-half is! I have no idea!Half Milk and Half Cream in one container.

-HollywoodBob

Kirsten

October 22nd, 2004, 10:23 pm

Mixed together, or does the cream float on top?

rotsiepots

October 22nd, 2004, 11:06 pm

I'm not positive, Kirsten, but I think "half and half" would be what we would call "reduced fat", or "semi-skimmed" milk, and "non fat" would be skimmed milk. :)

Kirsten

October 23rd, 2004, 12:47 am

Spew Member

October 23rd, 2004, 2:21 am

Sorry Kirsten, half and half is whole milk and cream mixed together. I don't know how it is in Europe, but here we use half and half for cream in our coffee, tea, or Italian sodas. We don't drink it plain (or at least I've never heard of anyone doing that before.) I'm not sure, but I believe the equivalent to your semi-skimmed milk would be our 2% milk. Besides 2% we also have nonfat (which is the watery type you were describing) and whole milk. Half and half is heavier than whole milk because it is whole milk and cream. I believe most Americans drink 2% and nonfat (I could be wrong again.) At the coffee shop that I worked at we only used nonfat milk and didn't even have 2% or whole. I believe that all of our milk here is pasteurized. I hope that clears things up. When I went to Europe it took me a while to get used to how thick the milk was, and then when my friends from England came here to visit, they thought that nonfat milk was the worst thing they had ever tasted! :lol:

Dedalus Diggle

October 23rd, 2004, 3:42 am

People all loose weight at different rates, and most women loose weight slower than men. Do they vote them out strictly on how much weight they loose? 20 pounds in one week! Is that even possible? :wow:
Sure, it's possible. I went from 230 to under 190 in about three weeks following the Scarsdale Diet. I was also going to a gym and working out very vigorously 3-4 times a week. Scarsdale gives you quite a strict pattern, but it is quite well balanced, allowing lots of fruit veggies and lean meats, cutting out empty carbs and fats. I suppose like most successful diets it gets you to eat 1200-1800 calories per day, but it's better than most about doing so with plenty of nutrition.

Spew Member

October 23rd, 2004, 3:48 am

Sure, it's possible. I went from 230 to under 190 in about three weeks following the Scarsdale Diet. I was also going to a gym and working out very vigorously 3-4 times a week. Scarsdale gives you quite a strict pattern, but it is quite well balanced, allowing lots of fruit veggies and lean meats, cutting out empty carbs and fats. I suppose like most successful diets it gets you to eat 1200-1800 calories per day, but it's better than most about doing so with plenty of nutrition.

Wow! 40 pounds in three weeks! :wow:

rotsiepots

October 23rd, 2004, 11:18 am

No, HollywoodBob says it's half milk and half cream. He's right about some other things, so he's probably right about that. Skimmed milk is milk with the cream taken off it (it's like greyish-white water; it's foul) and semiskimmed is milk with half the cream taken off. I don't drink milk anymore, I use soya, but if I did, it would be green top, unpasteurised, full fat milk. It's the only milk that looks and tastes right.
I'm quite aware of what whole milk, semi-skimmed and skimmed milk are. I was attempting to be helpful.

"Foul" is certainly a subjective experience. I drink skim milk because I'm not fond of the taste of cream and I like the taste of skim milk. It's not that I dislike cream, as such, but I'll eat cream when the occasion calls for it and not on with cereal every morning. Soy drink, on the other hand, is something I have difficulty stomaching.

Kirsten

October 23rd, 2004, 2:48 pm

Well then, I'm confused. You said that half and half would be like semiskimmed, but now you say you know what semiskimmed is, but according to Hollywood Bob, it's nothing like semiskimmed.

Anyway, it's hardly worth getting upset about dairy products.

morgiana

October 23rd, 2004, 3:50 pm

I think I have been on almost every diet there ever was including fasting.

Fasting actually worked the best for quick weight loss. I lost 45 pounds in 30 days and it stayed off. I think I gained 3-5 pounds back. I was also 24 and had gained the weight quickly and recently.

When I was in my 20's (1970's) I weighed 130 pounds and was sure I was FAT. I'm 5' 2". My friends weighed about 120 - 130 we all thought we were FAT. We took pills, had injections of horse serum from pregnant horses, we joined a health club - we actually went. I look back now and laugh at us.

I have recently lost 70 pounds it took awhile but it is staying off and I am still losing. You guessed it I weighed way more thah 130. I ate what I wanted but ONLY what I wanted and in small quantities. If I wanted a donut I ate 1 donut. If I wanted ice cream I ate enough to 1/2 way fill a cappucino cup. I ate butter and meats. I ate small portions. A thin cut piece of meat is like an optical illusion. It looks the right size but there's so much less. I ate chips and cookies in my cappucinno cup. On Sundays I ate normally and as the time progressed I ate less & less on Sunday. I have changed my eating habits and I am sure I will reach my goal weight. My goal weight is no where close to 130 pounds but for someone over 50 it is realistic.

We in the USA are obsessed with weight. Either you are too fat or too thin. Let's not even factor in cholesterol. People are unhappy with their bodies because they are unhappy inside. People should accept each other and themselves.

There is an affirmation which goes: I accept myself for who I AM right now. I can change if I want but who I am right now is good.

No matter what diet or plan you use to change your weight or not change your weight you still need to accept and love yourself.

silvercJD4

December 19th, 2004, 11:55 pm

* I did a search, but didn't find a thread whose primary focus was this particular diet.

I was a strict follower of the diet for a few months and I lost a considerable amount of weight. For the past few months, I've adopted the idea of good carbs/bad carbs more as a lifestyle than a diet. Since using this weight loss method I've lost 31 pounds and kept it off. I've heard people say that they'll lose a lot of initial weight, but then they gain it right back. I understand how this happens, and to me, it's a matter of discipline. You can't lose ten pounds and then think that it's ok to have a bowl of ice cream every night...of course you'll gain it all right back! I'm rather proud of myself, and I've definitely noted the change. I lost a lot of belly fat, and I wasn't big to begin with, but now I feel better. Oh, and just a news flash: I did this for me, not society.

Zorkwap

December 20th, 2004, 12:01 am

good for you, its nice to see someone lose wait, I should tell my parents about this method, i however don't need a diet, woot high metabolism, but still congradulations :tu:

Amina

December 20th, 2004, 12:14 am

I don't really know what this diet entails, but I don't really like 'diets'. If someone is overweight, I think that perhaps it can be a good, temporary thing to get the weight off. However, the secret to a truly healthy body and mind is exercise, lots of water and balanced meals.

Exercise is really the best thing there is. It keeps you fit, pumps you up and makes you feel good! I worry that people on diets don't always get the right amount of vitamins etc. My friend was on atkins and wouldn't eat any fruit because of the sugar (which make carbs). That really can't be good for you...

starutena

December 20th, 2004, 1:24 am

Out of all of the fad diets out there, South Beach is one of the saner ones. Atkins on the otherhand is just insane. (It works because you are basically starving your body of what it needs) Congrats on the weightloss. Now just add some healthy excercise and you'll be on the road to wellness. Keep in mind that sometimes genetics is working against you and you may never get beyond a certain point. Just be happy and healthy with your given body.

haha

December 20th, 2004, 8:37 am

Just be happy and healthy with your given body.

I couldn't agree more! Not alot of people have the genes for a perfect stick body, but that doesn't mean your fat, ugly, or unhealthy. I know, because i used to struggle a lot with my weight before i sort of accepted my shape and realised i was never going to have that long skinny body, especially since I'm so short :p . When you just let go, and focus on being healthy instead of losing weight then life becomes easier, i guess because you don't have this other thing to worry about :D

PS congrats on the weight loss though, and I'm glad you did it for you rather than society. That's a really important point that a lot of people miss out on.

FirefightingMuggle

December 20th, 2004, 6:47 pm

What does the South Beach diet consist of? I've heard of it, but I don't know what you eat or don't eat.

crookshanksmom

December 21st, 2004, 7:00 pm

What does the South Beach diet consist of? I've heard of it, but I don't know what you eat or don't eat.

From what I've heard, south beach is like Atkins, revised. Not healthy in the long term. People need to stop viewing certain foods as the enemy. I wonder how many of my peers are going to wind up with osteoperosis in their 50s because they believe milk and other dairy products are bad.

Spew Member

December 21st, 2004, 7:12 pm

From what I've heard, south beach is like Atkins, revised. Not healthy in the long term. People need to stop viewing certain foods as the enemy. I wonder how many of my peers are going to wind up with osteoperosis in their 50s because they believe milk and other dairy products are bad.

Just as a side note, the top three countries that consume the highest amounts of dairy also have the highest amount of people with osteoperosis. Countries that have the lowest consumption of dairy have the lowest amount of osteoperosis. I'm not too worried about skimping out on the dairy seeing as it's not really preventing osteoperosis. If we really wanted to "cure" osteoperosis then we'd raise awareness on the foods that cause it, and not a myth that "cures" it. Not even the dairy industries own website says that dairy cures osteoperosis because there have been hardly any studies to prove that it has, and the ones that they have done have actually shown that the chances of getting oteoperosis increased when when people raised their dairy intake.

crookshanksmom

December 22nd, 2004, 1:18 am

Spew Member

December 22nd, 2004, 2:15 am

But what is the majority of the people in those countries? Because osteoperosis is more common in white and asians. Also, what is the average age that people in those contries die? Because osteroperosis becomes more of a concern after menopause, which most women do not reach until their 50s. You can't say that it's from not drinking milk if you're not looking into other factors.

Countries with the highest consumption of dairy products: Finland, Sweden, United States, England
Countries with the highest rate of osteoporosis: Finland, Sweden, United States, England

Daily calcium intake for African Americans: More than 1000 mg
Daily calcium intake for black South Africans: 196 mg.
Hip fracture rate for African Americans compared to black South Africans: 9 times greater

Calcium intake in rural China: One-half that of people in the United States
Bone fracture rate in rural China: One-fifth that of people in the United States

Actual number of adults worldwide who do not drink milk: 65 percent.

The life expectancy for the US is around 77 years, and China is 72 years.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't drink milk, I just don't think it's healthy.
The difference between milk and a candy bar is that the candy bar isn't pretending to be good for you. :)

Even the milk companies aren't allowed to say that milk prevents osteoporosis. They get around it by being very vague with their ads. You'll notice they don't put it on their dairy cartons (because they aren't allowed to) and if they have an ad that says that it is good for your bones they will add something like "emerging research says..." I thought the research had already been done. Sounds kind of fishy to me.

I'll include this link so that I don't have to write the same stuff over again:
http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413131&postcount=385

Crookshanks, a lot of people find it hard to believe that milk isn't good for you because we've been told that forever, along with a lot of other bad stuff (remember the old foodchain.) It's not a big deal, I'm mainly a believer because every woman in my family has osteoporosis. My aunts, my grandma, my great grandma. The only person who doesn't have it is my Mom who hasn't had any dairy products for well over 20 years. It turned me into a believer. :)

Ruby Black

December 22nd, 2004, 6:20 am

I think raw foodism is a healthier way to eat, seeing as how you aren't consuming any animal fat. Vegetables are good for you (obviously), and I definately salute vegetarians and vegans for their discipline in such a meat-eating nation.

I do have something to say about the South Beach diet though: if you stick to it, and do everything it tells you to, it definately works. I went on that diet with my mom, and we both lost weight rapidly. I don't think that I, personally, needed to go on any diet, but my mom insisted that it was a healthier way to eat anyway. The South Beach diet is really just a diet that works all of the necessary nutrients into your body, and omits unnecessary sugars and fats with ease. You don't really feel like you're on a diet. I recommend this diet, if any.

rotsiepots

December 22nd, 2004, 10:33 am

JofpGallagher

December 22nd, 2004, 1:35 pm

Countries with the highest consumption of dairy products: Finland, Sweden, United States, England
Countries with the highest rate of osteoporosis: Finland, Sweden, United States, England

Daily calcium intake for African Americans: More than 1000 mg
Daily calcium intake for black South Africans: 196 mg.
Hip fracture rate for African Americans compared to black South Africans: 9 times greater

Calcium intake in rural China: One-half that of people in the United States
Bone fracture rate in rural China: One-fifth that of people in the United States

Actual number of adults worldwide who do not drink milk: 65 percent.

The life expectancy for the US is around 77 years, and China is 72 years.

I'm not saying that people shouldn't drink milk, I just don't think it's healthy.
The difference between milk and a candy bar is that the candy bar isn't pretending to be good for you. :)

Even the milk companies aren't allowed to say that milk prevents osteoporosis. They get around it by being very vague with their ads. You'll notice they don't put it on their dairy cartons (because they aren't allowed to) and if they have an ad that says that it is good for your bones they will add something like "emerging research says..." I thought the research had already been done. Sounds kind of fishy to me.

I'll include this link so that I don't have to write the same stuff over again:
http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1413131&postcount=385

Crookshanks, a lot of people find it hard to believe that milk isn't good for you because we've been told that forever, along with a lot of other bad stuff (remember the old foodchain.) It's not a big deal, I'm mainly a believer because every woman in my family has osteoporosis. My aunts, my grandma, my great grandma. The only person who doesn't have it is my Mom who hasn't had any dairy products for well over 20 years. It turned me into a believer. :)
I believe there are two important factors to include in these statistics: Weight and Exercise.

"One of the most important things you can do to increase bone density is to engage in weight-bearing exercises," ....Weight-bearing exercises, such as jogging, walking and soccer force your bones and muscles to work against gravity, while resistance exercise uses muscular strength to improve muscle mass and strengthen bones. Studies show that bone density can increase significantly as a result weight-bearing exercise.

I would like to know the ratios between Amrican's normal wieght and the one for chinese people! More weight, more chances you break your hips and the need of stronger bones. Additionally, how sedentary can be the life for Chinese people and American or Finland, or Sweden people.

crookshanksmom

December 22nd, 2004, 2:29 pm

If milk is so horrible for you, then how come people who consume low fat or fat free dairy products while on a diet lose more weight faster than those who do not consume dairy? Seems to me that there's something fishy going on with all the people who tell you NOT to consume dairy products. It makes me so angry that American people are so fat-phobic that something like a glass of milk or a cup of yogurt scares them senseless.

And about weight bearing exercise? Is THAT the reason very few females in my family have developed osteoperosis?? All my aunts were active, my mother was in the Army, and my grandmother walked everywhere, driving only for very long trips.

Spew Member

December 22nd, 2004, 6:42 pm

Spew Member, it would be helpful if you could provide references or a list of sources for the information you posted. It's difficult to assess how accurate it is without first seeing who it's published by.

Edit: I'm guessing here?

I know, sorry about the statistics guys, most of my information comes from books that I own (The McDougall Plan by Dr. John McDougall, The Food Revolution by John Robbins, Eat to Live by Dr. Joel Fuhrman, Breaking the Food Seduction by Dr. Neal Barnard) I'm doing a lot of Christmas preparation so don't have a lot of time to be searching the web, but I'll go searching for the links now!

Here are some links, there are a lot more where that came from.

http://www.pcrm.org/news/release041202.html
http://www.pcrm.org/health/Info_on_Veg_Diets/dairy.html
http://web.archive.org/web/20030703...ncer010118.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1268481.stm
http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...10322074643.htm
http://www2.netdoctor.co.uk/news/in...?y=2001&m=4&d=9
http://www.drmcdougall.com/science/osteoporosis.html
http://www.sciencenews.org/pages/sn..._26_99/fob2.htm
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archiv...6-97d01-013.htm
http://www.mad-cow.org/00/paraTB.html
http://www.earthsave.bc.ca/material...ilk_letter.html
http://www.pcrm.org/health/Dairy_an...y_prostate.html
http://www.pcrm.org/news/FTC_complaint.html
http://www.vegsource.com/articles/w...ealth_intro.htm
http://www.pcrm.org/health/Info_on_Veg_Diets/milk.html

If milk is so horrible for you, then how come people who consume low fat or fat free dairy products while on a diet lose more weight faster than those who do not consume dairy? Seems to me that there's something fishy going on with all the people who tell you NOT to consume dairy products. It makes me so angry that American people are so fat-phobic that something like a glass of milk or a cup of yogurt scares them senseless.And about weight bearing exercise? Is THAT the reason very few females in my family have developed osteoperosis?? All my aunts were active, my mother was in the Army, and my grandmother walked everywhere, driving only for very long trips.

I'm not trying to make you angry Crookshanks; I'm not fat-phobic at all. I don't have a weight issue and I don't worry about it. The reason why I quit eating dairy products is because I was really sick with migraines all of the time and was unable to do anything but lie on the couch with ice on my head for a while. I also had some other stuff going on as well but I'll spare you all the details. I had the same health problems as all of my aunts only at a much younger age and didn't want to spend the rest of my life in and out of hospitals (which was the current trend). I did a lot of research and even met all of the doctors whose books I've mentioned above in person. One of them is actually my official doctor now. It was hard to give up the dairy products because I loved ice cream but after I did my headaches completely went away with all of the other health problems I was having. Since I've changed my diet and rid myself of the dairy I haven't even had as much of a cold let alone the health issues I was having before. People ask me if it's hard to get rid of the dairy but it was much harder for me to have headaches than to change my diet.

For the weight issue, I'd like to say that the study done on weight loss and milk was funded by the dairy industry, it makes it a little easier to skew the facts a bit so that they can jump on the Atkins weight loss band wagon. Here's a link about that:
http://www.pcrm.org/news/release041202.html

For the exercise thing, my Mom is very active, but so are her sisters. My Aunt is very athletic, she runs and plays tennis, her ex-husband was a pro-tennis player. My grandma is also very active and takes tap dancing lessons and goes to the gym. None of them have a weight problem but they all have osteoporosis except for my Mom.

I would like to know the ratios between Amrican's normal wieght and the one for chinese people! More weight, more chances you break your hips and the need of stronger bones. Additionally, how sedentary can be the life for Chinese people and American or Finland, or Sweden people.

Hello Jofp, too much weight doesn't have anything to do with osteoporosis. All of the women in my family that have osteoporosis are really thin. Weight causes a lot of other problems but it's not linked to osteoporosis, osteoporosis is measured by bone mass.

The problem with dairy products is that their high-protein content leaches calcium (along with other minerals) from the body. The high-protein content causes too much acid and disrupts the Ph balance in our system. In order to neutralize it, the minerals are leached from our bones. These losses of calcium deposits are what make up most kidney stones!

crookshanksmom

December 22nd, 2004, 9:49 pm

The problem with dairy products is that their high-protein content leaches calcium (along with other minerals) from the body. The high-protein content causes too much acid and disrupts the Ph balance in our system. In order to neutralize it, the minerals are leached from our bones. These losses of calcium deposits are what make up most kidney stones!

I have heard about this protien thing when reading up about Atkins and other 'carb phobic' diets, which is why they are not healthy in the long term. I would really love to see a sensible diet that stresses eating lots of fruits and vegetables and tells you the only carbs to avoid are those refined ones-white bread, white rice, and white sugar. Whole wheat bread, brown or wild rice, and oats are all very good for you. I know someone who lost 10 lbs just by stopping eating sugary breakfast cereals and started eating a bowl of oatmeal every morning! The goal to any diet is to nurish your body and keep it healthy, it should not be just to get back into a size 2. Same with exercise, it should be done because it does your body (and your mind) good, not because our country loathes people who are bigger than a size 12.

rotsiepots

December 22nd, 2004, 10:44 pm

^ All of my books on healthy eating stress that a diet high in carbohydrates and low in sodium and sugar, is beneficial. Most common sense cook books (ie cook books that aren't promoted as "low carb") will tell you the same. I could type out the exact phrasing for you, but I think you get the picture.

Spew Member

December 23rd, 2004, 1:53 am

I have heard about this protien thing when reading up about Atkins and other 'carb phobic' diets, which is why they are not healthy in the long term. I would really love to see a sensible diet that stresses eating lots of fruits and vegetables and tells you the only carbs to avoid are those refined ones-white bread, white rice, and white sugar. Whole wheat bread, brown or wild rice, and oats are all very good for you. I know someone who lost 10 lbs just by stopping eating sugary breakfast cereals and started eating a bowl of oatmeal every morning! The goal to any diet is to nurish your body and keep it healthy, it should not be just to get back into a size 2. Same with exercise, it should be done because it does your body (and your mind) good, not because our country loathes people who are bigger than a size 12.

That's basically the diet I follow. Lots of carbs (not the refined processed carbs) but whole grains and rice, lots of fruit and veggies. At first it was really hard to learn how to cook and shop for the right foods but now I've got it down. It's too bad it's so much easier to eat food that is bad for you. :p