Fawkes the Phoenix

[timmay]

Phoenixs are able to be reborn from the ashes of their own death.

how long has fawkes been around??

is he a family heirloom that harry hasnt got yet?

or is he anothr fixture of hogwarts like peeves??

[Springy]

Hmm.. I don't know really. If he is reborn, how on earth was he born in the first place. Maybe he was just there!!! And now he cannot be distroyed. Maybe he is immortal!!!

[Puffskein]

Some people think Fawkes previously belonged to Godric Gryffindor. I don't think there's any evidence either way.

[Qeomash]

I bet that Phionixes are immortal, but can have offspring. They're probably like the Elves in LotR...Immortal, but can die by the sword.

[mystically_mad]

I always thought that phoenixes died and laid an egg in the ashes but that isnt how it happens in HP. Maybe the female lays eggs and thats how they are born.

[Fuchsia]

I don't know if you can *own* a phoenix or pass them down to relatives.
Fawkes is with Dumbledore because he is such a special dude.

[mystically_mad]

yeah, Fawkes must really love DD. Maybe Fawkes is how he keeps up on things in the castle. After all Fawkes must have some mental abilities because he knew when Harry was being really loyal to DD and went to Harry in COS.

[Fuchsia]

That is another cool thing about Dumbledore. His relation with magical beasts.

But I don't think that he needs Fawkes to keep up with things in the castle.
The ghosts, paintings, house elves and students are enough for that.

[mystically_mad]

I suppose but he probably does use Fawkes for that kind of thing anyway. DD is the kind of person to use every resource he can.

[revz]

There are theories that Fawkes once belonged to Godric Gryfindor... but I doubt these.... besides, the age of a phoenix is irrelevant, as it always starts as a chick after it bursts into flames.... In our mythology, a phoenix lives up to 500 years or more before it burns.... however, in Harry's world, ifDumbledore is only 150 years old, and he has seen Fawkes burn a lot of times... then maybe a phoenix in that world has a shorter lifespan..... but is still basically immortal since when it dies, it is reborn again from the ashes....

[revz]

Originally posted by Qeomash
I bet that Phionixes are immortal, but can have offspring. They're probably like the Elves in LotR...Immortal, but can die by the sword.

Thats what miss Rowling tells us... not really like the elves... elves live for a long time... a phoenix doesn't.... when it's time for it to die.... it bursts into flames.... and starts life again as a chick.... almost as if there was a new phoenix that came from the old one... but is essentially the same bird....

[Hederic]

If the phoenix retains his memory, than it doesn't matter how many times it dies, since his memory, his being doesn't die.

[Katze]

how long has fawkes been around??
I think He's been around since Godric Gryffindor's age. I *do* believe that Godric Gryffindor was Fawkes' caretaker. I also believe that Fawkes chooses his next caretaker.

is he a family heirloom that harry hasnt got yet?
No - he's not a family heirloom. But I do believe that Fawkes will ultimately choose Harry to be his caretaker. There's no blood relation between his caretakers, but rather the quality of the person's character that Fawkes uses to base his decision. He already is quite fond of Harry, and has helped him out twice.

or is he anothr fixture of hogwarts like peeves??
No, he's not a fixture. He goes wherever his caretaker goes. Though I wonder if Dumbledore had Fawkes when he was just a professor at Hogwarts.

[revz]

Originally posted by Hederic
If the phoenix retains his memory, than it doesn't matter how many times it dies, since his memory, his being doesn't die.

you have a point....

although there's not really much to retain since a phoenix is still a bird.... it may retain its loyalty... but a bird doesn't have the same memories like people do....

[Hederic]

Sure they do... Not to mention that it's a magical being.

[revz]

point well taken... but judging from the way that miss Rowling writes her books.... Fawkes is just on the same level of intelligence as say Hedwig.... although probably a little smarter....

[g0ne]

Katze had the same thing i was gona say :) !

[periwinkle-blue]

yeah.. a bit smarter than hedwig, although looks like JKR's owls all have the astonishing talent of finding the addresees.. do they know how to read addresses? the same goes for the tropical birds letter courier sent by sirius to harry.

[revz]

Besides, JKR treat owls as magical creatures... so I guess their in the same league as phoenixes.....

so, if you count that a phoenix dies and is reborn... then, fawkes will be more or less... 2 years old..... kidding.....

[steel phantom]

mabey he is immortal??

[g0ne]

I think he lives forever unless killed. He will not die of old age ?

[DogStar87]

Originally posted by Springy
Hmm.. I don't know really. If he is reborn, how on earth was he born in the first place. Maybe he was just there!!! And now he cannot be distroyed. Maybe he is immortal!!!
I'm pretty sure Fawkes is indeed immortal, I don't remember reading that directly from any of the books but hearing it somewhere *shrugs*

[revz]

and about killing a phoenix... it's totally pointless... even if you choose from 1001 methods.... a phoenix is reborn "when it dies"... making it essentially immortal... not that it can't be killed.... it needs to die to be reborn... killing it only speeds up the process since it doesn't have to wait for old age to take its toll...

[Potterjohn]

I think fawkes is as old as Godric Gryf, and he had it as his 1st birthday present :) so he is 1000 or so years old.

[revz]

uhm, not to flog u or anything, but I don't really think even wizards receive powerfully magical animals as gifts on their birthdays... usually it's owls and cats.... but I'm inclined to agree with you that Fawkes has been around since Godric's time....

[Jess]

Originally posted by Katze
how long has fawkes been around??
I think He's been around since Godric Gryffindor's age. I *do* believe that Godric Gryffindor was Fawkes' caretaker. I also believe that Fawkes chooses his next caretaker.

is he a family heirloom that harry hasnt got yet?
No - he's not a family heirloom. But I do believe that Fawkes will ultimately choose Harry to be his caretaker. There's no blood relation between his caretakers, but rather the quality of the person's character that Fawkes uses to base his decision. He already is quite fond of Harry, and has helped him out twice.

or is he anothr fixture of hogwarts like peeves??
No, he's not a fixture. He goes wherever his caretaker goes. Though I wonder if Dumbledore had Fawkes when he was just a professor at Hogwarts.

Exactly what I was going to say! LOL perfect summary Katze :)

[revz]

I have to agree with the last 2.... but the last sentence of ur first summary... well.... intelligent as he is... I still think it will be up to Dumbledore since Fawkes is just his "familiar", so the decision is up to him...

oh, and a familiar is an animal companion of a witch or wizard. Harry up to now has Hedwig....

[Siriusly_Addicted]

I think Dumbledore had Fawkes when he was Transfiguration professor. If Riddle and Harry both have wands with Fawkes' tailfeathers, and Dumbledore new about that, either he had Fawkes when both feathers were donated or he knew Fawkes' previous caretaker. Since Dumbledore was at Hogwarts before Riddle bought his wand, I believe he had Fawkes at that time.

[GodricSlytherin]

I think that Fawkes is gryffindors...I think that, Fawkes didn't really go to Harry because he showed loyalness to DD.
I think that he knew the chamber was opened and that whoever was down there needed help..I think he knows when Harry is in danger..and maybe he is immortal..and maybe..possibly that if you can...ummm....forget it..

[mystically_mad]

Ok so now you should tell us because you know you want to.

[Justin Etre]

Originally posted by Qeomash
I bet that Phionixes are immortal, but can have offspring. They're probably like the Elves in LotR...Immortal, but can die by the sword.

Elves can only die though extreme grief and sorrow, therefore Fawkes is NOT similar to an Elf in LotR, because otherwise he couldn't use his healing powers, because he'd die mid-tear.

[mystically_mad]

Elves can die by the sword too and other ways which I cannot say on a family board. Extreme grief is not the only way for them to die.

[revz]

Originally posted by GodricSlytherin
I think that Fawkes is gryffindors...I think that, Fawkes didn't really go to Harry because he showed loyalness to DD.


not to be mean of anything... but that's what it says in the book and the movie too....:)

[Emma]

In my opinion, the bird is as old as dirt.

[mystically_mad]

Lol thats a good way of putting it.

[timmay]

but who's dirt?

perhaps phoenixs like basalisks can be created??
if so who was fawkes creator?
cough godric griffindor cough cough wheeze.

[Puffskein]

Fantastic Beasts says they nest on top of mountains.

[revz]

Godric might have just tamed a wild phoenix....

[mystically_mad]

Yeah maybe but I dont think so.

[revz]

hmmm.... another question in line of the topic... how many times has fawkes died....:D

[Snitch17]

Ummmm... I'd say Fwakes is..... 500 years old, give or take, like..., 10.

[Gandalf]

I've just checked FB and it says

"The phoenix lives to AN IMMENSE AGE as it can regenerate, bursting into flames when its body begins to fail".

It doesn't say anywhere that it's immortal, just that it can live for a very long time. But I'm betting Fawkes is very old.

[Yurika Star]

I think that Fawkes is the 'mascot' (i use the term loosely) of the Order of the Phoenix. And that he has been around for a long, long time.

I'd say yes to the time of Godric Gryfindor,a s thats when i beleive the Order of the Phoenix began.

Read my stupid theories i was saying in this thread http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&postid=96239#post96239

[revz]

Originally posted by Gandalf
I've just checked FB and it says

"The phoenix lives to AN IMMENSE AGE as it can regenerate, bursting into flames when its body begins to fail".

It doesn't say anywhere that it's immortal, just that it can live for a very long time. But I'm betting Fawkes is very old.

oh yeah.... actually, that means that Fawkes can live for a very long time, and then die in a burst of flames.... and is reborn from the ashes... which makes him technically immortal... from what I understand, a phoenix lives for 500 years before bursting into flames....

[mystically_mad]

I dont think it is that long because DD gives the impression that he has seen Fawkes on a 'burning day' plenty of times and he is only 150 years old. Also if it only happened every 500 years then it would be a big thing and not something DD would miss for almost anything yet he was out of the room and missed it.

[revz]

oh yeah, point taken.... I only stated the myth to prove that a phoenix is basically immortal... but then, JKR has her own version of the myth... perhaps in her version, a phoenix only has a lifespan of a normal bird... say, 30 years... give or take... and then.. bursts into flames and is reborn again....

[huffellpuff]

i love fawkes!!!

[mystically_mad]

Originally posted by revz
oh yeah, point taken.... I only stated the myth to prove that a phoenix is basically immortal... but then, JKR has her own version of the myth... perhaps in her version, a phoenix only has a lifespan of a normal bird... say, 30 years... give or take... and then.. bursts into flames and is reborn again....

Yeah thats what I think too.

[ben folds]

hey, since dumbledore's like five hundred years old, does that mean that every witch/wizard will live to like five hundred years old? (including harry and his mates at hogwarts).

[Anne]

I don't know where you got the idea that Dumbledore is 500 years old...JKR said in a chat that he is around 150, and that that's old even for a wizard. So I would assume that it's safe to say that Harry and his friends could possibly live to be 150, but it's unlikely.

[revz]

hmm.... DD might only have reached 150 years because he was a friend of Nicholas Flamel... who owned the Sorcerers stone... and might have shared the Elixir of Life... hmmm....

remember, wizards are not phoenixes.

just a theory....

[mystically_mad]

Nah I doubt it. Even in our paltry years people live to be 120 or older so DD is probably the equivalent of those people to witches and wizards.

[revz]

hmmm....

true... but those people are already quite weak.... not as energetic as DD was portrayed to be....

[lanifiel]

I imagine Fawks to be the bird that Dumbledore had when he was a boy at School as well. Whether he got it first rebirth then is a tougher question...

[mystically_mad]

What do you mean lanni?

[revz]

hmmmm.... mind boggling question..... though... as faar as school rules are concerned.... students are only allowed an owl, a toad or a cat.... so I doubt that the young dd would have already had FAwkes as a student... maybe as an adult... he tamed the phoenix....

[mystically_mad]

It says that students are allowed to bring an owl, toad or cat but they can bring other pets because Ron brought Scabbers. Maybe when DD was at school they were only allowed to bring an owl, toad or cat and he had to leave his phoenix at home so when he became headmaster he changed the rule.

[danswitch8899]

what r u ppl talkin abbout?

[mystically_mad]

Fawkes. DD's bird who saves Harry a couple of times.

[sparkle]

Could Fawkes have originally been tamed by Godric Gryffindor????? I mean the whole loyal, red + gold thing can't be just a trivial thing, there has to be somethin there.

[revz]

possibly... that's beena theory for a long time now.... who can tell...

[Filia Tenebrarum]

Originally posted by mystically_mad
i always thought that phoenixes died and laid an egg but that isnt how it happens in HP. maybe the female lays eggs and thats how they are born
I read somewhere that there is only ever one phoenix in the world which is constantly being reborn and so has no need to reproduce.
JKR may have altered this so that there are many phoenixes (phoenices? Like index - indices?) but we have only ever heard about one of them.
If pheonixes do reproduce then perhaps when it's time for the parent to be reborn two chicks come out of the ashes instead of one? But then, if pheonixes are immortal, but keep reproducing then aren't going to end up with a superfluity of pheonixes?

[Ashkins]

Maybe they reproduce every 4 life cycles or more..

just a theory

[mystically_mad]

Originally posted by Filia Tenebrarum
I read somewhere that there is only ever one phoenix in the world which is constantly being reborn and so has no need to reproduce.
JKR may have altered this so that there are many phoenixes (phoenices? Like index - indices?) but we have only ever heard about one of them.
If pheonixes do reproduce then perhaps when it's time for the parent to be reborn two chicks come out of the ashes instead of one? But then, if pheonixes are immortal, but keep reproducing then aren't going to end up with a superfluity of pheonixes?

What I meant was, I read that before a phoenix dies they lay an egg and die and the baby phoenix rises from the ashes unlike in HP where the same phoenix rises from the ashes.

Even if there is only one phoenix, it had to come from somewhere, it didnt just appear out of nowhere.

[Firebolt]

What happen if you take the ashes away right after Fawkes burnt? Or if you oops! sneezed in front of the ashes.
Uhmm curious, very curious.

[Slytherin_Chick]

very, very old! i think. :whistle: ;D

[danswitch8899]

yeah what if you accidently sneezed right into the ashes, or wut if you were a stupid git who decided to eat the ashes, eeewww!! but what if?

[Slytherin_Chick]

umm well if u ATE The ashes.. u'd have a phoenix growing inside u.. not a pleasent thought is it? ;) lol
and if u sneezed? i don't think that would be TOO horrible because in the movie **i know the movie ISN'T a GREAT source of information i know! :)** but in the movie fawks grows as a baby with LOTS of ash left over.. i don't know.. that would suck if u had half a phonenix growing in the pile of ashes left, and the other body parts all scattered around ur office.. hmmmm hahahaha! :elaugh:

[danswitch8899]

lol!!!! it would be weird, but hillaroious at the same time!! lol :-P and i dont think i dwant to eat the ashes, but you never know..evry once and a while you get someone like neville , lol no offennse, i like neville i think hes funny

[Slytherin_Chick]

lol Nevils a cluts! :D funny tho! :) he's sort of the 'comic relief' in the books because of the 'dark' things goin on! :)

but uh.. i can see Nevil running into the Gryffi common room saying "HELP! A phonex is growing inside me!!!" HAHAHAHA:elaugh: :D :D

[revz]

hahahaha.... nice one... hehe....

poor Neville...

[mystically_mad]

You guys are hilarious, but honestly, you think of the dumbest things sometimes lol. I suppose everyone does though.

[Ame]

Originally Posted by Mystically Mad
even if there is onlyone phoenix, it had to come from somewhere, it didnt just appear


Which brings the age old question, which came first the pheonix or the ashes?

*drumroll*

Thank you, thank you... I'm here every thursday at eight... :lol:

[mystically_mad]

Lol thats a good one.

[revz]

uh, hehehe... okay.....

[mystically_mad]

Dont you like it? I think its funny.

[timmay]

AHHH HA HA! but which was it? For there to be ashes there had to be a Phoenix and for there to be a Phoenix there had to be ashes. But is this so??
For there to be a BAsilisk a Toad must sit on a chiken egg or was it a Rosters egg, which seems stranghe as Rosters dont lay eggs but that is the way of magic.

So could it be that a Phoenix is able to be created in a similar way, which would explain their extereme devotion to their owners/creators?

[mystically_mad]

I dont know but I cant imagine a phoenix being created by a mere person, no matter how wise they are.

[timmay]

why?

[Filia Tenebrarum]

Originally posted by mystically_mad

even if there is onlyone phoenix, it had to come from somewhere, it didnt just appear
Ahh, here we go! CoS forums launch into philosophy! If you say that everything must come from somewhere, then where did anything come from in the first place? And having phoenices reproducing doesn't solve that problem anyway. The saying goes: "which came first the chicken or the egg?"
I suggest we all go away and do a degree in philosophy and another in theology and _then_ come back and discuss this further! :-D

[timmay]

ok just got back ive done my double degree stayed on and did my masters then my docxtorate so...

Why?

[A.M.]

I think he is about as old as Dumbledore. Mabey he got a pheonix egg as a present when he was young.

Pheonixes have to mate, don't they? Therefore, they would lay an egg.

[revz]

so then... rephrasing the question.... which came first... the phoenix... or the egg... hehehe.... remeber guys.. this is magic.. so evolution is out of the question.....;)

[mystically_mad]

Nah it is: which came first? The phoenix or the ashes. Didnt you read the previous posts?

tinmay, its just a feeling I have ok.

[Filia Tenebrarum]

Originally posted by timmay
ok just got back ive done my double degree stayed on and did my masters then my docxtorate so...

Why?
So that we can have a go at answering the question "Which came first the phoenix or the ashes?"
Come to think of it perhaps the degrees won't help. Perhaps someone should go and hang themself on a tree for nine days and nine nights until we become all knowing (like the Norse god Odin). Or maybe they could trade an eye for the answer .-(

No, I'm not volunteering!!
:-D

[mystically_mad]

Lol. Or maybe we should travel to the ends of the earth to ask the ancient 6 headed butterfly!!

[timmay]

Cool where about is that?

But dam it I didn't want this to be a discussion of the meaning of life!!

I just was curious as to weather Fawkes belonged to a key figure of the past that relates to Harry's future.

[mystically_mad]

I dont know I made it up.

This isnt turning into a discussion on the meaning of life, what gave you that idea?

I guess we will have to wait and find out when the book comes out. Personally I dont think so.

[timmay]

the entire chicken and the egg thing meaning of life, whats the sound of one hand clapping they are all he same thing but what I realy want to know is.....
Did Fawkes belong to anyone else???

[mystically_mad]

Most likely. If he is immortal he must have been around before DD unless he was wild and DD tamed him.
Or maybe DD created him.

[timmay]

but who else has had him??

Merlin? Does he go with the headmaster job?

Or is Fawkes just another possesion aquired by Dumbledore?

[mystically_mad]

I dont think so, I get the feeling that DD didnt just 'acquire' Fawkes. Fawkes seems really loyal to DD, like he is with DD out of choice, not because DD owns him.

[mrHankey]

He doesn't go with the headmaster's job. One of the specific things Harry noticed when he was "in" the headmaster's office via Tom Riddle's diary was that Dibbet's office didn't contain Fawkes.

[mystically_mad]

Maybe Fawkes was Grindelwald's before DD had him and DD got him off Grindalwald after he was defeated by DD.

[timmay]

But Phonenixs are loyal why would fawkes be loyal to Dumbledore if he killed his previous master.

It comes down to this either Dumbledore summoned fawkes into existance, or saved Fawkes earning the phoenixs trust gratitude, yada yada yada or Fawkes came to Dumbledore because he is like an omen of change and renewal and has been doing this for a very ong time, warning those of what is to come so that the past is not doomed to be repeated in a vicious cycle.

[mystically_mad]

He could have been a slave to Grindelwald and the DD saved him.

[timmay]

Perhaps but an unwilling servan is as good as not having one at all in fact often worse, especialy a powerfull magical creature such as fawkes whose powers are only good for those who he is loyal to or those who show loyalty to those who he is loyal to.
anin't that a mouth full.

[mystically_mad]

Yeah but I understood you. Maybe he started out good but went bad and Fawkes had to be loyal to him but was relieved when DD defeated him

[timmay]

Like the old battered wife sydrome, he hurts me because he loves me.

[mystically_mad]

Yeah something like that. And maybe he thought he could go good again

[timmay]

Sounds like a Dumbledore thing to do, or were you talking about Fawkes thinking that Grindalwald will turn back to the light?

(look whos being a one sentance wonder now.)

[mystically_mad]

Fawkes thinking GW would go back to the light.

[timmay]

A ha.

But that is assumiong that Phoenixs are capable of making such intelligent and rational decisions. Just how much smarter are these magical creatures compared to normal ones?

And as an aside why do all the students have cats rather than kneezles(magical type of cat, like the ones nicholas Flamal has i think it was.)

[mystically_mad]

I wouldnt have a clue. Crookshanks is half kneazle.

I think Fawkes is a very intelligent animal.

[timmay]

I think your right Dumbledore may have said that intelligence is one of a phoenixs characteristics. In order to be loyal you have to have the intelligence to make that choice. Rather than a cat or dog following you around the kitchen hoping that you feed it.

[Charmed]

I am not sure how old Fawkes is. But according to mythology there is only ever one phoenix in the world at one time. Some people say phoenix's live for about 500 years, while others say they live for over 1200 years.

[mystically_mad]

I dont think that there would only ever be one phoenix in the world at the one time or they wouldnt be so well known. Also Fawkes couldnt be 500 years old or more, remember they burst into flames every so often and it would have to be fairly often because DD wasnt that worried that Fawkes did it without him in the room and if it was a rare occurance wouldnt he want to be there?

[timmay]

I am less curiois about weather there is only one Phoenix or several, or even how long last for before bursting into flame, as someone put it a long while ago Phoenixs are as old as dirt.

So during Fawkes illustrious carrier just who has he been looking after.

Ok
New idea obvious point Griffindores collours are those of a Phoenixs plumage(Red and gold) what if Godric griffindore left his essence inside of Fawkes to watch over the school he spent his life to build.
It seems to me to be a logical conclusion as Phoenixs embody one of griffindore houses most prized qualities, that of Loyalty.

[White_Rose]

Ok, the real myth (oxymoron) of Phoenixes (as far as I know) is that there is one and only one. They live for 500 years, and once their fifhundredth year is up, they make a nest of spices and combust. Their ashes are contained in the nest, and a baby Phoenix emerges, who will live for another 500 years. After it emerges from the ashes, it carries it's mothers (there are no real genders for Phoenixes) to Heliopolis, the Greek city of the sun. Obviously JKR adapted this myth for her own use, so we have no real way of identifying the age of Fawkes.

[Jessica]

I think Fawkes is the pheonix in the Order of the . . .
I also think he belongs to whomever is the leader of the order.

Harry has possible been selected as the next leader and that is why he and Fawkes have such a special relationship.

[mystically_mad]

It could be. Maybe Fawkes only stays with each person while they do a special task and then he moves on.

[timmay]

Fawkes the Harbringer of DOOM!

[mystically_mad]

Lol, thats not what I meant.

[timmay]

Perhaps Fawkes is like the Moth MEn and is drawn to places where blood Will be spilled.

[mystically_mad]

Yeah, and he tries to stop it but hasnt succeeded yet.

[go_anna40]

I guess Fawkes is very old overall. But it keeps being re-born. So it depends what "life" you are talking about.

Fawkes could of belonged to anyone, I guess we don't have enough evidence to really prove anything.

[Jinxie Cat]

there are a lot of questions flying around about fawkes....where did he come from? who did he belong to? how old is he? will a phoenix ever die? are they immortal? where do they come from? in all reality i don't know a single answer to any of these :D but i'm sure we'll hear more and more about fawkes and more about phoenixes.... most likely in 'order of the phoenix'.... :smile:

[mystically_mad]

Oh I cant wait for that book to come out. HURRY UP!!!

[Sirius Black]

Maybe Fawkes, like the Basilisk, belonged to Godric Gryffindor and was passed onto to all his heirs. But then, Dumbledore probably isn't Gryffindor's heir so this can't be. Plus, why did Gryffindor then choose a Lion to represent his house if he had a phoneix?

[Jinxie Cat]

the basilisk belonged to godric gryffindor? WHAT!? i always assumed it belonged to salazar slytherin...where'd you hear this from? and i don't think fawkes belonged to godric gryffindor.... it just doesn't seem right... maybe fawkes is a family pet or something...i dunno.....

[timmay]

What about fawkes being the incarnation of Godrick Griffindore's spirit?

Or a combination of the three founders that didn't go crazy and turn to the dak side.

[mystically_mad]

Maybe Fawkes is a creation of the Three other founders but mainly Gryffindor's. They could have created him to help defeat Slytherin.

[smartypants]

Well, the problem with the Gryffindor theory is that everything once was Gryffindors, the hat, the sword, and no Fawkes?

Couldn't Fawkes be Hufflepuffs from the start? The Pheonix is connected with loyalty, so that fits! And Fawkes could then be not Dumbledores but something passed down to all Headmasters of the school, and Fawkes appears when you show real loyalty to the Headmaster/school.

So the sword can be pulled out of the hat if you show amazing bravery, Fawkes if you show true loyalty, and Ravenclaw and Slytherin might then have something that can help students in real trouble of they show loads of cleverness and ambition.

Nice little theory, if I may say so myself. :)

[mystically_mad]

It is a nice theory but when does it sy that the hat was Gryffindors?

[sugarquill]

How significant a character is Fawkes? He's DD's Pet, he was sent by DD to help Harry in the chamber, but the most important distingtion he has is that
his feathers make up the cores of Harry's and Voldi's wands. Does this give him some control over the wands that contain parts of him? Do the wands not work against the creatures that provide the core? Is fawkes, as the provider of the feather going to bring about the downfall of Voldi ?

All these points as well as the fact that he's a pheonix, a very magical creature makes me thing that he will play a very important role in the future books.

[tabby]

I don't think the fact that he provided the tail feathers for both Harrys and Voldemorts wands will be significant in relation to Fawkes. I think that's just between the two wands.

To me Fawkes is just something used to give the plot a kick here and there. I don't think he's overly important. Certainly not as important as most of the human characters. The fall of voldemort will be left to Harry.

[sugarquill]

The magic of the wand comes from the core. Dont you think its important that JK chose to make the core of both wands feathers from fawkes? why did she do that if it wasnt going to be significant later on? After all we know after book 4 that there is a whole wand protocol that we dont know anything about.

[tabby]

I don't think it's significant in relation to fawkes. Saying that the tail feathers came from fawkes explains how they knew it was from the bird. It was convenient.

It is significant for Harry and Voldemort.

[rotsiepots]

*bump*

[sugarquill]

Thats too simple an explination for me, i'm convinced that there's more to fawkes's feathers being in the wands. We do know that book 2 is key to the series, thats where we meet fawkes,and thats where we find out about the feathers. If it wasn't important why bring it up, we already know, 1st book, that Harry's wand is the brother of voldi's. Why then did we have to know about fawkes being the donner of the core if it wasn't important.

[Potter80]

Fawkes will become Harry's bird after Dumbledore dies.

[mystically_mad]

Originally posted by sugarquill (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=234018#post234018))
How significant a character is Fawkes? He's DD's Pet, he was sent by DD to help Harry in the chamber, but the most important distingtion he has is that
his feathers make up the cores of Harry's and Voldi's wands. Does this give him some control over the wands that contain parts of him? Do the wands not work against the creatures that provide the core? Is fawkes, as the provider of the feather going to bring about the downfall of Voldi ?

All these points as well as the fact that he's a pheonix, a very magical creature makes me thing that he will play a very important role in the future books.

But Tom Riddle used Harry's wand against Fawkes in the CoS.

[Taliesin]

http://www.bloomsbury.com/images/harrypotter/newspagejacket.gif I think Fawkes' ability to heal ppl with his tears will again play a role in Ootp

[Taliesin]

I think Dumbledore is an animagus.... he IS Fawkes...*lol*

[sugarquill]

Did Tom really use Harry's wand against Fawkes? Hmmmm I need to check that out.

[mystically_mad]

Yeah, after Fawkes heals Harrys wound.

[Potter80]

Fawkes is a great bird. I think Harry will get Fawkes when Dumbledore dies. Dumbledore is 150.

[Filia Tenebrarum]

Yes, didn't JK say something about Harry getting another pet in later books?
It would be very appropriate for Harry to get Fawkes since his wands feather came from him.
PS Here's the quotation:
"[Harry] might get a different pet at some point but I'm saying no more at this moment."

[Potter80]

Quote:
I think Dumbledore is an animagus.... he IS Fawkes...*lol*
_________________________________________

No way. Fawkes and DD have are seen together. DD could turn into an animal that is close to Harry though. Perhaps Trevor the toad. LOL!

[Taliesin]

Originally posted by Potter80 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=241235#post241235))
Quote:
I think Dumbledore is an animagus.... he IS Fawkes...*lol*
_________________________________________

No way. Fawkes and DD have are seen together. DD could turn into an animal that is close to Harry though. Perhaps Trevor the toad. LOL!

I don't know... I think Dumbledore's capable of just about anything :D:D:D He's definately not as 'Old & Frail' as he is made out to be... we'll see some unreal magic from DD in OotP :)

[Potter80]

DD is amazing, but I don't think he is Fawkes. I do think he is an animagi though. I bet it will be an animal that has been in all the books.

[timmay]

Bumble bee as that is what Dumbledore means in old english or something.

[aes]

Originally posted by timmay (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=242097#post242097))
Bumble bee as that is what Dumbledore means in old english or something.You know, I've thought about that before when I found out the origin of the word "dumbledore." Wouldn't that be crazy if he could transfigure into a bumblebee!? :D Though, I still don't think he's an animagus as he's not registered I don't think. Though ... given the capacity for learning -- he might be able to transfigure if he really tried (keeping in mind I don't know much about the variations of magical abilities across various wizards). :p

-Colin

[timmay]

How do we knowthat he isn't registered? Just because it hasn't been mentioned, how many registered Animagi were there "this" century though?
Compared to how many unregistered animagi there are!

Not to say that our beloved Dumbledore would ever do something illegal ;)

[mystically_mad]

He is 150 years old which means he could have registered last century.
I think Harry's new pet will be a big black dog, if you know what I mean.

[timmay]

Thats a point I had not considdered, too true.
On both accounts.

[mystically_mad]

Is that a compliment timmy?
Or just an acknowledgement?

[timmay]

Both a little of collum A and a little of collum B.

I love descovering loop holes.

New trains of thought, sadly though the evil post loop will always exist.

[mystically_mad]

Thanks.
We are studying King Lear by Shakespeare in English and it comes in handy being able to seize upon the least amount of information possible and make a theory. I learnt that here, take a bow everyone.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Little tidbit of trivia. Dumbledore = bumblebee
According to aerodynamics the bumblebee should not be able to fly.
*therefore, it must be magic*

[Potter80]

Fawkes can rise out of the ashes to new life. Does that mean if Hrry's wand breaks it would just turn to ash and then become a normal wand again?

[Barbara Kennedy]

Not very likely as it is not a living Phoenix, but a wooden creation containing a single phoenix feather.

[black&potter]

pheonix's live forever i believe fawkes is simply dumbledores pet that may have possibly claimed him as his owner or friend because of his determination to be honest and equal honoring all life

[Barbara Kennedy]

Good point, do we know that Dumbledore "owns" Fawkes or did Fawkes choose to stay with Dumbledore?

[Potter80]

I thought it said in the book that Pheonix's lived a very long time, not forever. I could be mistaken but I am pretty sure.

[rotsiepots]

According to the wonderful Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them:

...The phoenix lives to an immense age as it can regenerate, bursting into flames when its body begins to fail and rising again from the ashes as a chick..."

Take this as you will, but I'm more inclined to agree with Potter80 on this one.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Why would Fawkes stay with Dumbledore or come to the aid of someone who showed Dumbledore great loyalty?

[mystically_mad]

Doesnt the phoenix represent loyalty?

[Barbara Kennedy]

I'm sure it does, but the point I didn't get across very well is, "Why Dumbledore?"

[mystically_mad]

Well maybe DD showed great loyalty to Fawkes last owner like Harry did to DD.

[rotsiepots]

Aaah, Barbara, you've touched on one of my personal theories. :D

Erm, I won't detail the exact theory (sorry, I'm a bit protective of all my corkers) but suffice to say that I believe that Fawkes previously belonged to Godric Gryffindor and that Dumbledore is a descendant of Gryffindor (this partly explains Voldemort's Dumbledore anxiety). Fawkes, in effect, is sort-of a "family heirloom."

[mystically_mad]

Hmmmm, I like the theory I have made up :D Fawkes was someone elses (I odnt know who's) and DD was a student of his and showed exceptional loyalty to the owner and so when the other owner died Fawkes went to DD (possibly when it was thought that he would go to another person) and now when DD dies Fawkes will go to Harry. Im not saying that DD will die anytime soon though.

[smartypants]

Yeah. That's a very nice theory, indeed. Makes me all warm and fuzzy. :)

I had a short stint with a theory that Fawkes actually was handed down with the headmasters office, since Helga Hufflepuff, but it's specifically mentioned that when Harry sees Riddles memories, there is NO Fawkes in teh office when Professor Dippet is headmaster, so that theory failed. :(

[mystically_mad]

I like it too. I thought about that theory but Dippet didnt seem like a good headmaster or person so I couldnt see Fawkes with him.

[Jasmine]

I think the phoenix ages very quickly....because in one of the books i think COS harry see's fawkes burst into flames and in about a couple of months he is full grown when he helps harry in the COS. poke: :elaugh: ;D

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by rotsiepots (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=257174#post257174))
Erm, I won't detail the exact theory (sorry, I'm a bit protective of all my corkers) but suffice to say that I believe that Fawkes previously belonged to Godric Gryffindor and that Dumbledore is a descendant of Gryffindor (this partly explains Voldemort's Dumbledore anxiety). Fawkes, in effect, is sort-of a "family heirloom."


So, Fawkes is a phoenix which seems the epitome (?) of loyalty to DD (and to Gryffindor, according to your theory). Isn't it a bit strange then that his feather chose none other than Tom Riddle? (=direct Slytherin blood descendant).

[Taliesin]

I think we could see Harry travel on Fawkes back :D
"They can carry immensely heavy loads, their tears have
healing powers, and they make highly faithful pets."
Justa thought :)

[Potter80]

I don't think Harry could travel on Fawkes back. Fawkes isn't huge and Harry would get in the way of Fawkes wings flapping. Harry would have to hold on to the tailfeathers like he did before.

[Barbara Kennedy]

We have seen that, at need, Fawkes can carry an immense weight in comparison to his size. However, this does not mean that Dumbledore or Harry are likely to put a "saddle" on him for any reason other than an emergency. It just wouldn't be polite or respectful. Remember that Fawkes INVITED Harry to take hold of his tail.

[Filia Tenebrarum]

"Isn't it a bit strange then that his feather chose none other than Tom Riddle? (=direct Slytherin blood descendant)"
Not at all! It was Voldemort having the same wand core as Harry that saved Harry's life in GoF. Besides, there's no certaintly that Fawkes knew where his feathers would end up. He may just have donated them to Ollivander without knowing.

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by Filia Tenebrarum (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=259039#post259039))
"Isn't it a bit strange then that his feather chose none other than Tom Riddle? (=direct Slytherin blood descendant)"
Not at all! It was Voldemort having the same wand core as Harry that saved Harry's life in GoF. Besides, there's no certaintly that Fawkes knew where his feathers would end up. He may just have donated them to Ollivander without knowing.


What I wondered was, why did the wand containing a bit of Fawkes (=symbol of Dumbledore and to some, symbol of Gryffindor) chose to be with Tom Riddle, the direct Heir of Slytherin? The wand chooses the wizard, remember.

It seems a bit strange for me (the fact of a Gryffindor symbol choosing a Slytherin guy) but it surely must have an explanation.

[Hpmons]

Well, they do say the wand chooses the wizard...

The phoenix has already shown that it can carry immense loads in the 2nd book, when it carried Harry, Ron, Ginny, Lockhart out of the CoS; but I agree with Barbara Kennedy, and Fawkes may help Harry or DD, but becuase he wants to; not becuase they want to.

BTW JKR said in a chat that Harry may get a pet in the future...Phoenix? Since it lives for hundreds of years, it must go through quite a few owners. DD is going to die soon anyway, so perhaps Harry will inherit Fawkes; he will probably be most useful in future fights with Voldermort...

[Barbara Kennedy]

I'm glad you understood my point, no one would be able to force Fawkes to stay or help if he did not choose to. [That's my impression anyway.]

[MadMagic]

I agree. I think that Fawks is one of the most intelligent animals ever. I don't think he could be forced to do anything. He obviously choses what he wants to do.

[Barbara Kennedy]

So from this we can deduce that Fawkes believes that Dumbledore is worth risking himself for.

[mystically_mad]

I think we can.

[smartypants]

Originally posted by Barbara Kennedy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258458#post258458))
We have seen that, at need, Fawkes can carry an immense weight in comparison to his size. However, this does not mean that Dumbledore or Harry are likely to put a "saddle" on him for any reason other than an emergency. It just wouldn't be polite or respectful. Remember that Fawkes INVITED Harry to take hold of his tail.


And besides, it's probably the tailfeathers that make it possible. Remember the extra-ordinary lightness that spread when he grabbed the tailfeathers. They are obviously extra-extra magical, and hence work well as cores.

Why did the wands "select" both Voldemort and Harry? Well, firstly Harry and Voldemort are connected since the almost-fatal spell. Secondly, what do we know about what wands works with what wizard? Nothing!

[list=1]
Since Phoenix tail feathers are so magical, maybe they will only accept wizards that rise above the average in one way or another?
Since these are flying animals, maybe they like people who are good at Quiddich? I have a feeling that Riddle played Quiddich too, can anybody confirm this?
Maybe Riddle ALSO has shown great loyalty to Dumbledore in the past? :)
[/list=1]

Of course, the truth only exists in JKR's head, and maybe not even there... :)

[Auri DeMeer]

I like your theory number 1: that Fawk's feather chose a very powerful wizard with very strong potential (Tom Riddle).

[Potter80]

Fawkes had to let Dumbledore give the feathers for the 2 wands because Harry, Ron, Ginny, and Lockhart all held onto Fawkes tailfeathers without them fallig out.

[remo]

Voldemort wasn't bad when he got his wand. Powerful, possibly. He was an 11 year old boy that came form a muggle orphanage, so at that point he probably knew very little about the wisarding world.
I agree with Rotsie, to an extent. I've just started reading the series again looking for a connection between DD and Harry as relatives. There has been many theories about Harry being a descendant of Gryffindor. So if Harry is a descendant of Gryffindor and DD is a descendant of Gryffindor, then Harry and DD are somehow related.

I think Fawkes was a family pet. He probably belonged to DD's father. This would explain why he is loyal to DD. If Harry is somehow related to DD it would also explain why fawkes appears to care about Harry so much. Or it could just be that fawkes believes in good and DD and Harry are certainly good wizards.

[Barbara Kennedy]

That is an interesting point about Dumbledore's father.... We sometimes forget previous generations in our theories. Could Dumbledore be Harry's Great-great Uncle or cousin, not Grandfather like we often theorize?

[Potter80]

Quote:
That is an interesting point about Dumbledore's father.... We sometimes forget previous generations in our theories. Could Dumbledore be Harry's Great-great Uncle or cousin, not Grandfather like we often theorize?
______________________________________

I would certainly hope so. I would love it if Dumbledore was Harry's relative. It is unlikely that Dumbledore is Harry's grandfather since he is 150, but he could be a great, or great, great grandfather or something like that.

[remo]

DD is said to be 170. James was probably mid 20's when he died. James gave his invisibility cloack to DD for safe keeping to have DD pass it on to Harry.
If James really felt protected then why did he give the cloack to DD for safe keeping? Why did he give it to DD and not his best friend Sirius?
I think there is more to the DD/James relationship than a teacher/student relationship. I think they are somehow family. Maybe DD is Harrys great great great great great uncle. It's a lot of greats but DD is 170 and Harry is only 16, so that is about right.

[smartypants]

It sais nowhere that he gave the cloak to Dumbledore for safe keeping. He "left it in his possession". That's all. I assume Dumbledore needed it for something (or somebody) and James lent it to him.

[Potter80]

I wonder if Fawkes knew James. It would be cool if James was healed by Fawkes the same way Harry was.

[timmay]

Come on it is a play on words "left it in my posession." There are all sorts of connotations that can be taken from that simple little sentance.

Do I need to call your Mommy's and Daddy's to calm you all down?

I refuse to comment as I have made my postion very clear, over, and over, and over, and over again.

[marrapessa]

What if your Animagi animal is a magical animal? What if Godric Gryffindor became a pheonix, which would mean he could never die?! That'd be cool.. okay so its unlikely, but cool all the same.

[timmay]

Wait a second how the hell did Fawkes the phoenix change into invisability cloaks????????

[Barbara Kennedy]

Originally posted by smartypants (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=261745#post261745))
It sais nowhere that he gave the cloak to Dumbledore for safe keeping. He "left it in his possession". That's all. I assume Dumbledore needed it for something (or somebody) and James lent it to him.


It seems the most likely scenario. Could it also be possible that James left it in Dumbldore's possession for a third party to use? One of "The Old Gang' perhaps?

[mystically_mad]

I dont think so. I think that James left alot of his things for safekeeping with DD because he knew that DD was the only wizard Voldie was scared of and so they would be safe there. He didnt leave it with Sirius or anyone because he knew Voldie might get them.

[Barbara Kennedy]

In any case it is a definite show of faith in Dumbledore to keep such rare and valuable items safe.

[EvilRaven]

Well Pheonixs can live up to 500 years and in some Myths up to a thoudans years. Which makes me wonder if Fawkes was around during the founding of Hogwarts. :whistle:

[Potter80]

That would make Fawkes very old and close to death. I would hate it if Fawkes died. I want Fawkes to become Harry's. Fawkes is just so cool.

[mystically_mad]

Whenever Fawkes dies he bursts into flames, remember, and is reborn.

[Potter80]

Phoenix's still have a life span. They don't live forever. I read it somewhere but I can't remember where. It may have been fantastick beasts and where to find them.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Fawkes will hopefully be with us for a while yet. He will be the mascot, or symbol, at least, for the Order of the Phoenix, what ever that turns out to be.

[Stallion1]

I wounder exactly how old fawkes is. Also if the tail feather cam from fawkes that volde- or Tom Riddle bought 50 yrs ago but then again maybe they have a lifespan like humans but burn up every 10 yrs or so.

[Rounded Buddha]

Originally posted by remo (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=260921#post260921))
Voldemort wasn't bad when he got his wand. Powerful, possibly. He was an 11 year old boy that came form a muggle orphanage, so at that point he probably knew very little about the wisarding world.
I agree with Rotsie, to an extent. I've just started reading the series again looking for a connection between DD and Harry as relatives. There has been many theories about Harry being a descendant of Gryffindor. So if Harry is a descendant of Gryffindor and DD is a descendant of Gryffindor, then Harry and DD are somehow related.

I think Fawkes was a family pet. He probably belonged to DD's father. This would explain why he is loyal to DD. If Harry is somehow related to DD it would also explain why fawkes appears to care about Harry so much. Or it could just be that fawkes believes in good and DD and Harry are certainly good wizards.


Dumbledore can't be a relation of Harry's as he wasn't shown on the Mirror of Erised and there have been no mentions of their eyes being similar (unless he's on the other side of the family)

Rounded Buddha

[Hpmons]

In an interview JKR said that Harry might get a pet. Fawkes was the first thing that came to my mind. Assuming Dumbledore dies at some point in the next three books (Harry mentions DD as looking quite old, so I personally think he will die soon), then the only person Fawkes would know would be Harry. Since Harry has shown loyalty to Dumbledore, it is likely that Fawkes might join Harry.

[Potter80]

I really hope Fawkes will be Harry's phoenix in the end. There is a good chance Dumbledore will die in the end of the series so Fawkes would have to end up being Harry's.