CoSForums Archive - All About Remus Lupin 2.0

SGosling

June 7th, 2004, 7:50 pm

Katarzyna

June 7th, 2004, 8:03 pm

Lupin is not a main player in the books, but in the film he was given too much screen time
Blasphemy! ;)

Da_Chinkster

June 7th, 2004, 8:15 pm

Lupin was a pretty key character in the PoA book. He teaches the DADA classes, teaches Harry how to make hte Patronus, assists in the revealing of Pettigrew and has a pretyt long talk with Harry about his dad and their group. Somehow I think he plays a pretty major role and therefore got the screen time his character deserved

Blossom

June 7th, 2004, 8:45 pm

What i love about him, is that he realises he's never going to find love, but he's never (openly at least) bitter about it, and always seems to understand what people are going through and will always help then. such a sweetie.

loony4moony

June 7th, 2004, 9:40 pm

Wow guys, we finally got a second thread! Took us nearly a year, but we got there in the end...

I liked Puffskein's point about Lupin's love for Lily not necessarily being romantic. Kloves' way of putting it- 'in many ways'- makes it somehow sound as if it was something complicated, something he kept very close to himself.

If he did love her romantically (and that is pure speculation- I'm afraid I don't really take Kloves' quote as solid evidence), then that firmly cements his title as the Most Loveably Tragic Character Ever. Not only would he have become a werewolf, been shunned by society and unable to find employment, and lost his closest friends to the dark side, but he would also have had to watch James and Lily fall in love...

Anyway, as I said, that's pure speculation. I remain suspicious of Kloves' 'intuition'- prior to reading that interview, I think I assumed that JK Rowling had had some kind of input on that scene, as I couldn't see how she could let Kloves get away with that much artistic license- but it sounds as though Kloves was pulling on his own 'creative resources' after all. Though on the other hand, given JK Rowling's comment about how surprised she was about the intuition shown by the film-makers, there's a chance he might have got it right....

Urgh, I'm thinking in circles. *bangs head against wall* One thing the film has done is to make me even more impatient for bk6...

mevam

June 7th, 2004, 9:52 pm

Of the Marauders, I would say that Lupin is third in terms of leadership, he's ahead of Wormtail but Sirius and James have a bond that Lupin can't get through to. Maybe Sirius and James were related or something, or perhaps Lupin is just too sensible for them? I wonder how they got to be friends with such a goody-goody (usually) like Remus anyhow. It'll be interesting to read about it in the next two books, hopefully.

Katarzyna

June 7th, 2004, 10:46 pm

I wonder how they got to be friends with such a goody-goody (usually) like Remus anyhow.
Well, all four of them shared the same dorm room for seven years in school. Besides, I don't think Lupin is such a goody-goody... I mean, he did have Neville dress up Snape in his grandmother's clothes, stuffed vulture hat and all, don't forget the handbag. I don't think that was an accident. Lupin might not show it much, but I think there's quite a wicked sense of humor behind those good manners and calm demeanor.

MSLupin

June 7th, 2004, 11:22 pm

Something that particularly irritates me about this supposed infatuation of Lupin's is that, according to the books, it is technically almost impossible. Say Remus became friends with James, Sirius and Peter in first year. We can assume that the animosity between Lily and James existed approximately the same length of time. Even if Remus did harbor an illicit crush on her from first year, he could not have had anything to do with her while any shred of anxiety existed between Lily and James, due to his gratitude and devotion to the other Marauders. It is entirely possible, even likely, that Remus and Lily were friends once she and James became a couple, but I fail to see where these lavish passages of praise, and especially Kloves's claim are being referenced from.
Having said that though, it is a very lovely little speech. David Thewlis may not look like Lupin, but his voice is sublime :).

sobaka

June 8th, 2004, 12:27 am

Lupin might not show it much, but I think there's quite a wicked sense of humor behind those good manners and calm demeanor.

that's exactly what i think. he wouldn't have gotten along with james and sirius very well if he didn't share their sense of humour, but all the same, i don't think he would've been much of a trouble maker on his own, without james and sirius influencing him. :)

i hate to cite the movie rather than the books, but lupin's delight during the boggart lesson (especially with neville's boggart) seems to me to hint toward the 'wicked sense of humour' you mentioned him to possess. because he's been through so much from a very young age, i believe he's not an out-and-out mischief maker/ funny sort of guy (like james and sirius), but he definitely has it in there somewhere. if his life had taken a different turn, perhaps he would show that personality more clearly.

hey_itz_me

June 8th, 2004, 12:41 am

i think it was a little confusing at first, but i realize: i cant think anymore. maybe lilly helped him out to the whomping willow with everyone once the friction between lily and james stopped, and saved someone from him or something...? okay it sounds stupid, but... maybe lilly was remus' first friend, and maybe became friends with james in second year...?

Lestrange

June 8th, 2004, 1:11 am

Sirius moved in with James when he ran away from home, I believe. They were probably the closest of the group. I've always thought though, that Lily and Remus would have much more to relate about than James and Lily.

C'mon, can't you imagine the Potters' wedding, Sirius and James dancing together **** drunk, Lily and Remus sitting there gazing at them like two soccer moms?

"They're a handful, aren't they?"

Also-- Remus the goody-goody wasn't quite so pious when he became a full-blown werewolf once a month and wandered the school grounds with his transformed friends. :evil:

I rather like the idea of Lily and Remus *just* being friends, though. It seems as though it would fit, James and Sirius wandering off together and Lily and Remus first talking about how insane Sirius and James are, and then developing conversation to something else, and becoming friends through that.

Sounds a bit more logical than Remus and Lily's infamous steamy love affair. :p

(It would probably make a pretty popular fan fiction though).

bowlwoman

June 8th, 2004, 3:04 am

A lot of people have been agreeing with Kloves' statement that he thought Lupin was in love with Lily, but I don't think so. During the Shrieking Shack scene (say that 3 times fast :D ), Remus apologizes to Black for thinking he was the spy, but then Sirius apologizes to Lupin for thinking HE was the spy. Why did Sirius suspect Lupin? If Lupin was really in love with Lily, would he exhibit behaviors to make Sirius suspect him? If he were seriously (no pun intended) disturbed and in love with Lily, then I could see him wanting to get rid of James, but not them both.

So, why DID Sirius suspect Lupin of being the spy? Since they were all good buddies at school, I can't see the fact that Lupin's a werewolf being the reason. The other Mauraders broke wizarding law to help him through that period in his life, so you know they're loyal when it comes to Moony. Was it simple elimination in that Sirius knew it had to be someone close to James/Lily and didn't think Peter was a good enough wizard to pull it off?

I think as we get more information in the last 2 books on the demise of Harry's parents, we'll get a lot more information on the Mauraders' relationships. I think we'll see a different side of Lupin, probably not Ever So Evil!Lupin, but Messed in the Head Early 20's!Lupin.

bowlwoman

Katarzyna

June 8th, 2004, 3:16 am

Something that particularly irritates me about this supposed infatuation of Lupin's is that, according to the books, it is technically almost impossible.
I agree, MSLupin. Besides which, it just feels wrong. Ah well. Whatever they screw up can be fixed with fanfiction. ;)

Prometheus

June 8th, 2004, 3:25 am

I'm one who thinks Lupin was in love with Lily, not for any particular reason, but it's just what I think. I also think that Lupin wouldn't make a move if he knew James liked Lily, because of everything James had done for him. Sirius and James (and Peter- but he was just after acceptance) really did do alot for good ol' Moony. Rather than rejecting him because he was a warewolf, as most in the wizarding world would have (even Ron said something to the affect of "get away from me werewolf!' in PoA)- they continued being his good friends and devoted years to become animagi. I think, given Lupin's kind and loving personality, stepping aside and letting James have a free shot at Lily would be his way of attempting to repay James for all he has done for him.

Hogwarts Lake

June 8th, 2004, 5:58 am

Maybe because of his (I'm thinking) introverted nature (at least in the 1st year)... maybe Lily and he had a lot in common and became friends?

Regarding JKR's quote about PoA (haven't watched it yet) didn't she say the director had put inadvertent clues? or something to the same effect...

Edit: Found it

"I really got goose bumps when I saw a couple of those things, and I thought, people are going to look back on the film and think that those were put in deliberately as clues," Rowling says in an interview released by Warner Bros.

Cuaron, for his part, says "in a way, it was intuition, but everything is so emotionally eloquent, the book gives you all the hints."

Barbara Kennedy

June 8th, 2004, 6:15 am

To me, Lupin's entire speech on the bridge about Lily sounded like someone grateful for kindness and understanding from someone who had figured out his darkest secret, but who not only kept that secret, but befriended him at a time when he felt most vulnerable and scared and alone. If it happened in their first year, remember, they were only 11 or 12 years old.

Lily was bright enough to have figure out Remus's secret, even before James and Sirius did. If she confided in Remus that she knew his secret and would help him keep it a secret and accepted him for the sweet scared boy he was, no reservations, don't you think he would be grateful to his dying day?

Love?
Yes, it is a kind of love, but it doesn't have to lead to romance between the two people.

SGosling

June 8th, 2004, 10:37 am

A question then was Lily similar to Hermione,
Hermione put the clues together really quickly (well sort quickly after Snape dropped a three page homework assignment on to her “Brightest of little minds” )
It raises the question, did Lily spy on Lupin? Did she follow him to the shrieking shack or just see him leave to be joined by the three animagi (this is pushing it a bit I think,) separate question how would a rat keep up with a bounding wolf, a grim dog, and a stag (never mind))

If she had worked out the clues in the first term, would she have confronted Lupin or reported him to the headmaster (the latter I think, she would have been told to mind her own business,) so then she goes and confronts him and finds him to be a nice boy who like her, is a bit of an outsider, him a wolf with few friends and her a muggle without much of a clue, if this is the case why did she not hang out with Lupin’s friends
We know that she didn’t “hang” out with them because James potter called her Evans in “Snape’s worst memory”

Are we reading to much in from the little we know of such a minor character

Puffskein

June 8th, 2004, 12:06 pm

There are some good ideas here, especially from Lestrange and Prometheus. I like the "soccer moms" image - I did get a bit of parent/child vibe from Lupin and Sirius in OOTP. I like to think that Lupin has learned to be content with having friends, just so it's not a disaster if he doesn't fall in love, but he still probably had the same hormonal crushes as everyone else. As Loony4moony said, it would be a bit too tragic if he was romantically attached to Lily (or anyone else who's dead).

As for Lupin's mischievous streak, he certainly has one, maybe not as much as James and Sirius. The main difference between them is that Lupin does not enjoy humiliating people (apart from Snape via the boggart, but Snape's a bullying toerag himself now).

tonks181

June 8th, 2004, 1:13 pm

now this question of why, of all three , was it that lupin was suspected to ahve switched over to the dark side, that's worth spending some time on. well, pettigrew is erroneously dismissed as the right choice for a traitor maybe because nobody would have thought him brave enough to face voldemort, for one, and because he so publicly made a fool of himself worshipping james(almost slobbering over him).
as said above, maybe it was a matter of elimination, maybe it wasn't. now, all we've had from the books is that it was established without doubt that somebody close to the potters had turned traitor. and these three marauders wouldn't have been the only people close to the potters(think of lily's friends). in that case elimination would become a very tedious process. which would mean that something must have happened to direct james and sirius' suspicions at lupin.(that's another sad thing in lupin's life, first rejection, ridicule and now distrust).
and even if sirius was of the opinion that remus was the rotten egg there, well i quite agree with hermoine on sirius' decisions being rash and his judgement not very trustworthy(the heart's there in the right place all right!). and james was much too seeped in sirius' friendship to thwart his decisions or question his judgement.

but what's surprising is that somebody like lily who's made out to be very sensible also went along with a judgement with such big implications against a man known to be very gentle, fiercely loyal? maybe remus' attitude as a prefect has something to d with that? maybe lily thought him incapable of defying a stronger person and that kind of diminished her respect for him and made her also consider remus as the likely choice?

or did something happen which we might get to know later(i , for one , don't think it's because of the werewolf stigma, refer marauders)

any theories anybody?

gottaloveLupin

June 8th, 2004, 1:52 pm

I have only read the books once so forgive me if I am stating something that you experts, have hashed out long ago, Lupin was one of James Potters friends I can not imagine him having many other friends, and the friends he had would be special, lily did not seem to be particularly friendly with James so just how much time did she have before the end of school to make such an impact of Lupin
Are we meant to believe that Lupin was a friend with Lily before she went out with James, I doubt he would even look outside of he small circle of friends for fear of rejection,
No the bit in the film is just licence, the fact JK Rowling allowed it to be left it in ( I think) was just to distract people from the glaring omissions in the poorly crafted film,

Lupin is not a main player in the books, but in the film he was given too much screen time

I think that most people here on these boards will agree with me that there isn't such a thing as : too much screen time for Lupin. On the contrary, I think that the concept is: not enough Lupin. :)

We love the guy.

Now, I think that it's very possible that Lupin was friend with Lilly before she started dating James.
lupin is not a weak person. he has a will of his own. Just because James and Sirius didn't get well with some people doesn't mean that Lupin couldn't be their friend; not close friend, but friend.
Something like the relationship between Seamus, Dean and Ron and Harry.
and lilly and Lupin were very much alike. The voice of wisdom, the rational ones.
And they were in the same house, so it's pretty possible that they were friends, despite James. Lilly was a very smart girl. I am sure that she figured out that Remus was a very nice person and despite his friendship with James and Sirius she became his friend.

I don't think that there was more than friendship between them.
I think that the scene on the bridge may be an intent to highlight Lilly more. Maybe she is the key to the story.
I really don't want to think that the scene is a foreshadowing for a love interest.

Now, Lupin not mischiefing?
oh, he does have a wicked kind of humor.
the scenes with Snape: there is much more than politeness there. When Snape catches Harry with the map and when Snape enters with the potion for Lupin. Lupin is too polite for us to think: oh, this guy is so nice and polite and sweet.
There is humor behind his attitude towards Snape. I think he actually laughs within himself of the whole situation. He is mischief but not in an aggressive way, as Sirius and James were, but in a smart one. He knows that there is nothing that can irritate an angry man more than indifference and politeness.
I find the scenes extremely amusing: Thank you Severus!

And the scene with Peeves. He is again very calm. He seems so harmless. You think: poor guy, even the ghosts laugh of him. But then, with the same calm, he bullies Peeves in a very elegant way. but without giving much importance to all the scene.

And what about the pensive scene. The way they talk about the exam, about the werewolves. That scene shows James, Lupin and Sirius as equals. Not Peter though.
The way Lupin makes fun with James and Sirius about the werewolves-question.
It shows his sense of humour.
And it shows why James and Sirius were friends with him. I don’t understand how anyone can ask why they were friends. It’s obvious in that scene that there was a great connection between the three of them. Yes, Sirius and James were much closer to each other than to Remus, but they were all very close. Because of their intelligence, because of their sense of humor and because they were all good persons.

Katarzyna

June 9th, 2004, 3:02 am

Very well said, gottaloveLupin!

I think that most people here on these boards will agree with me that there isn't such a thing as : too much screen time for Lupin. On the contrary, I think that the concept is: not enough Lupin. :)

We love the guy.
Heeee... yes. I wanted more screentime with Lupin, and Lupin and Sirius, and Lupin and Snape, and Lupin and Sirius and Snape...

Ahem. Yes, I think Lupin can be considered, in the language of squee-ing fangirls, as the "woobie".

Just because James and Sirius didn't get well with some people doesn't mean that Lupin couldn't be their friend; not close friend, but friend.
Something like the relationship between Seamus, Dean and Ron and Harry.
Right. Also, James and Sirius didn't really have a problem with Lily Evans... James liked her, but wasn't able to convince her he was all that. I think if Remus and Lily had a friendship that was above the board, i.e. didn't have a romantic component, then James would have accepted their friendship... and, above that, would have tried to leverage their frienship to help figure out Lily.

(Er, hope that makes sense!)

Now, Lupin not mischiefing?
oh, he does have a wicked kind of humor.
Heeee... yes.

I loved the scene in the movie when Lupin leans in and whispers his directions to Neville, "Picture Snape in your grandmother's clothing!" Or something close to that, dang it, I need a transcript of the movie! Anyhow, I thought that added a shot of naughtiness that wasn't obvious in the book, and loved it.

the scenes with Snape: there is much more than politeness there. When Snape catches Harry with the map and when Snape enters with the potion for Lupin. Lupin is too polite for us to think: oh, this guy is so nice and polite and sweet.
There is humor behind his attitude towards Snape. I think he actually laughs within himself of the whole situation.
Oh yes! He has Snape's number, he knows just what buttons to press to get Snape. It's... it's a beautiful thing, getting Snape's goat while acting perfectly polite and calm. Lupin is my hero in these scenes.

What I also find interesting: before Lupin's boggart lesson, Snape says, "Leave it open, Lupin. I'd rather not witness this." Does Snape know that Lupin has some mischief planned for him? Maybe, maybe not, but either way, it's lovely.

I find the scenes extremely amusing: Thank you Severus!
Yes, yes, yes, a thousand yesses! More Lupin and Severus, and Sirius. Please!

And the scene with Peeves. He is again very calm. He seems so harmless. You think: poor guy, even the ghosts laugh of him. But then, with the same calm, he bullies Peeves in a very elegant way. but without giving much importance to all the scene.
Excellent observation!

And what about the pensive scene. The way they talk about the exam, about the werewolves. That scene shows James, Lupin and Sirius as equals. Not Peter though.
The way Lupin makes fun with James and Sirius about the werewolves-question.
It shows his sense of humour.
Oh, very good point! The fact he's a werewolf does affect him, and has been a huge part of his life. Yet, he's able to accept that part of him, especially when he's around friends, to the point where he'll joke about it. This is, imo, completely different from Snape's attitude... Snape seems to cling to every little slight, while Lupin seems to look for the good and acceptance in people.

(Have I mentioned that I adore Remus Lupin?)

WolfmanLupin

June 9th, 2004, 3:56 am

First off, please don't be mad but, as my signature says, I did not particularly like David Thewles as Lupin. It is nothing personal towards the actor, it's just not the Lupin I envisioned. Lupin is my favorite character in the books. He's intelligent, calm, seems to be rather introverted. I think he made a perfect compliment to the Marauders. I'm sure he enjoyed having fun with Sirius and James, but he also was at times the concience of the group. I think in general we can't judge Sirius and James from one "SNAPE" memory. Lupin reminds Harry that they were young. He always has his eye on the big picture, always thinking. He was very intelligent as he proved during his DADA classes.

As far as Lily, she seems to be a very caring person(Even helping Snape before he insulted her), so I could understand him loving Lily as a close friend. Like many have said, love is not always strictly romantic. I'm good friends with the girlfriends or fiance's of some of my friends.

Katarzyna

June 9th, 2004, 4:16 am

First off, please don't be mad but, as my signature says, I did not particularly like David Thewles as Lupin.
Er, ok... I view these boards (and most boards) sans avatars, pics, and sigs. Thewlis wouldn't've been my first choice, but I think he does a fine job as Lupin. Do you have a particular problem with Thewlis? Or is there someone else you'd prefer?

Hogwarts Lake

June 9th, 2004, 5:20 am

Very well said, gottaloveLupin!
Oh, very good point! The fact he's a werewolf does affect him, and has been a huge part of his life. Yet, he's able to accept that part of him, especially when he's around friends, to the point where he'll joke about it. This is, imo, completely different from Snape's attitude... Snape seems to cling to every little slight, while Lupin seems to look for the good and acceptance in people.
(Have I mentioned that I adore Remus Lupin?)

*nods* that's one of the things I adore in Lupin - he can laugh at himself.

gottaloveLupin very well put indeed! I love Lupin! :rotfl:

I think that most people here on these boards will agree with me that there isn't such a thing as : too much screen time for Lupin. On the contrary, I think that the concept is: not enough Lupin.

We can never have too much of Remus Lupin!

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand yesses! More Lupin and Severus, and Sirius. Please!

YES!!! more! I adore them! :tu:

I don't know how Thewlis was as Lupin but I am hoping he was good I am going to see it today! I never imagined Lupin with a moustache but we'll see...

I hope he is not too sad after losing his best friend :sad:

atila junsocko

June 9th, 2004, 5:43 am

i think remus is going to be responsible of a terrible thing on book 6 because of his uncontrolable rage as a werewolf

that's what i think

dont kill me

anitarose

June 9th, 2004, 10:30 am

Hi,

I have a question and it's one that I really NEED an answer to because it's something on another site that's important. This pertains to the theory that Remus is actually James with some sort of a switching spell. Please, if anyone knows the answer to this, tell me, but it seems to me I read somewhere either on JKR's site or this site that JKR answered definitively that Remus was NOT James. But I don't remember where I saw it. Please help me, I need the answer to this one because my memory is failing me and my credibility online is being questioned. Thanks!!!!

Anita

loony4moony

June 9th, 2004, 10:39 am

anitarose, I can't remember exact quotes, but JKR has stated very clearly several times that James is dead, and that we will not see a live James at any point in the series.

For me, that's more than enough proof that the theory's nonsense, but people still like to speculate and there's a lengthy 'Lupin is James' thread somewhere on these boards, if you want to have a look. :)

Katarzyna

June 9th, 2004, 1:10 pm

i think remus is going to be responsible of a terrible thing on book 6 because of his uncontrolable rage as a werewolf
There's always that risk, but I doubt it'll happen. I don't think Lupin will forget to take the Wolfsbane potion so soon after the events in PoA. Actually, I have a hard enough time believing that the thoughtful and caring Remus Lupin simply forgot to take his potion in PoA, but I'm willing to let it go for the sake of forwarding the plot. If JKR has him conveniently forget again, that'll be a bit too much, imo.

It could happen that he's unable to take the potion, perhaps because someone captures him, that's a different story. But I think that plotline is more suited to fanfiction than JKR's canonical text.

Of course, if Mr. Lupin conveniently "forgets" to take the Wolfsbane and ends up tearing Pettigrew to shreds, then all is forgiven. ;) I think it'd be fun for Wolf!Lupin and Crookshanks to take on Pettigrew together--if Pettigrew changes into Wormtail, Crookshanks gets him. If Pettigrew is in human form, the werewolf gets him. It would be like a squeeze play in baseball, and a win-win situation either way!

Kat, off to work, thinking of 101 ways to kill Peter Pettigrew....

Bouncing_Ferret

June 9th, 2004, 2:10 pm

I don't imagine Lupin spent GoF roaming around a forest, though I'm sure that it is a very nice way to spend a year... No, I think Dumbledore had to have all the immediate members of the Order ready and waiting, so he could contact them quickly if something big happened - sort of like an army waiting to be mobilised.

Even though Lupin probably didn't have a job - I'm assuming he didn't because of Umbridge's werewolf legislation - I'm sure he would have been able to shack up somewhere near a wizard who could make the Wolfsbane potion. Plus, he's a sensible sort of fellow, he would have saved a lot of the wages that he had earnt from teaching, so he wouldn't be completely broke.

Are there shops or wizard apothecaries or something that maybe make potions to order? Perhaps that's how Lupin keeps his supply up.

RemusLupinFan

June 9th, 2004, 2:17 pm

It's also possible that during GoF Lupin may have had to do without the potion, since it is pretty hard to brew, and since he probably would think twice about asking someone to make it for him (that would mean exposing him as a werewolf). But he probably has the appropriate facilities to contain the werewolf every full moon at his home, wherever he lives.

purplehawk

June 9th, 2004, 2:20 pm

The James-Lupin-Switch theory may have originated here at CoS. I don't know for sure, but there was once a thread here on the topic. I don't remember the title, but I'm sure one of the mods could help you find it.

Katarzyna

June 9th, 2004, 3:15 pm

maybe Dumbledore got Snape to make it for Lupin still.
I hope so! Snape cost Lupin his job, so Snape owes him.

It would be nice if JKR told us more about the Secret Life of Remus J. Lupin in the next couple of books.

gottaloveLupin

June 10th, 2004, 2:12 pm

I've noticed something while reading the comments on this thread and on the thread referring to David Thewlis ‘s performance as Lupin.
I think that we have started, out of too much love for this character, to change a little his personality.
I think that sometimes we consider him too much as: poor, shabby guy. He is so sweet and so nice and so alone and so sad. He needs so much a hug and a kiss and being loved and taken care of.

And Lupin is much more than this.
he is not a passive, weak person who only spreads kindness and smiles.
He is a person with a great sense of humor, able to make fun even of his condition.
He is mischief. He likes to have fun, to play jokes. It’s just that he has a more intelligent and stylish way to do it. He isn’t as aggressive in his jokes like the Sirius and James were, but he is mischief.
He has a strong will, he is a powerful person.
Just because he is sweet and kind doesn’t mean that he is not capable of getting angry and of showing his anger.
He prefers to make use of politeness and kindness first, to appeal to the other person’s reason and intelligence and only when it’s needed to take a firm position and use italics.

But using italics doesn’t make him less likeable, or less Lupin. On the contrary.
I wouldn’t have liked Lupin if he had said: “ please, please Sirius sit down” in a very soft-spoken way. Like begging Sirius.

And I think that is a very nice touch that in the map scene David Thewlis raises his voice. Because this shows how much he cares about Harry, it’s a fatherly attitude.
And it’s not out of the character. He is quite angry in the book too.

I love his kindness. But I love Lupin even more when he stands firm, when he confronts other people, when he shows anger.

I love his frozen attitude towards Peter, I like his italics and I think I will love to see Lupin raising his voice at Harry in the movie.

He is not a saint, he is just the loveliest guy ever.

RemusLupinFan

June 10th, 2004, 2:25 pm

Great post gottaloveLupin, that says it beautifully. There are so many aspects to Lupin's character that if we focus on just one (his being poor and needing caring), we're not seeing the whole picture.

As for the movie version of Remus, I have seen some spoiler comments about Thewlis supposedly shouting at Harry. Since I still haven't seen the movie (I'm going tonight though), I can't really comment, but I will keep an eye out to see if there is any truth to those comments (I can't imagine there would, it's most likely as you say, that Lupin is simply showing his concern for Harry in a fatherly fashion).

gottaloveLupin

June 10th, 2004, 2:33 pm

I haven't seen the movie either. Unfortunately i have to wait a lot more than you.
It was suppose to come to my country next week, but now it seems that it won't come until july. i am dieing !
Glad that you liked my post.
I hope we will see plenty more of Lupin in book6 and book7. He is adorable.
and it seems that he has a huge fan club.
Enjoy your viewing tonight!
I can't wait to read your review.

Quillpen

June 10th, 2004, 4:26 pm

What about that line in the movie: "Werewolves could kill their best friend and not even know they had done it." What was THAT about? How much guilt and sorrow can one w-wolf stand?

Did Lupin's eyes turn green as he transformed? I know the camera was focused right there, and I wondered if there was a deeper meaning.

Sweetie

June 10th, 2004, 4:55 pm

What about that line in the movie: "Werewolves could kill their best friend and not even know they had done it." What was THAT about? How much guilt and sorrow can one w-wolf stand?

I personally think that that line was just used to make a point of how werewolves completely become something else when they transform.

ramones

June 11th, 2004, 9:32 pm

During the Shrieking Shack scene (say that 3 times fast :D ), Remus apologizes to Black for thinking he was the spy, but then Sirius apologizes to Lupin for thinking HE was the spy. Why did Sirius suspect Lupin? If Lupin was really in love with Lily, would he exhibit behaviors to make Sirius suspect him? If he were seriously (no pun intended) disturbed and in love with Lily, then I could see him wanting to get rid of James, but not them both.

So, why DID Sirius suspect Lupin of being the spy? Since they were all good buddies at school, I can't see the fact that Lupin's a werewolf being the reason. The other Mauraders broke wizarding law to help him through that period in his life, so you know they're loyal when it comes to Moony. Was it simple elimination in that Sirius knew it had to be someone close to James/Lily and didn't think Peter was a good enough wizard to pull it off?

I think as we get more information in the last 2 books on the demise of Harry's parents, we'll get a lot more information on the Mauraders' relationships. I think we'll see a different side of Lupin, probably not Ever So Evil!Lupin, but Messed in the Head Early 20's!Lupin.

bowlwoman

I agree with you and I have been wondering about this for a long time.
Why did Sirius doubt Lupin? And why does Lupin think that James changed secret-keeper because of him?
As we all know JKR hints to a lot of things in the books and while reading them I never had a feeling that she wanted us to think there was something between Lupin and Lily. He does talk about her to Harry, but I never really thought that he would be friends with her if she hadn't married James.

But we will definitely understand a lot more about the Mauraders in the next books.

nikib76

June 11th, 2004, 9:43 pm

I love Thewlis as Lupin and I think that Lupin has an aura of sadness around him. He will never get married or have children as he is a warewolf. I think he was good friends with James and Lily and looks on Harry as a surrogate child. He is cool and laid back and funny and I love him!!!! He is also the best DADA teacher in the series so far including the one in ootp. He is very patient and kind and sticks up for the underdog (This demonstrated by letting Neville be the first to tackle the boggart) All together a wonderful man and I would marry him tomorrow if I could!!!!!

Cat

June 12th, 2004, 12:29 am

He is not a saint, he is just the loveliest guy ever.

And so say all of us. Well, many of us. Some of us, certainly. I agree with your summary of Professor Lupin entirely.

What about that line in the movie: "Werewolves could kill their best friend and not even know they had done it." What was THAT about? How much guilt and sorrow can one w-wolf stand?

Did Lupin's eyes turn green as he transformed? I know the camera was focused right there, and I wondered if there was a deeper meaning.

I think it was just a dramatic line. I also think that the books suggest this isn't true. Hagrid oh-so-tactfully asked Lupin if he had eaten Buckbeak. He said or acted as though Lupin said no. That suggests werewolves have some memory of what they did on the full moon. I suppose it might be a very blurred and unsure memory, though.

I think they just went a different colour (I thought they went yellow...?) because he was transforming into a beast. Why, what do you think it might mean?

Why did Sirius doubt Lupin? And why doesn't Lupin think that James changed secret-keeper because of him?

Personally, I think that there might not be anything really mysterious about this. It could just have been that they were in suspicious times and Sirius knew that somebody was betraying them and correctly guessed that it was somebody very close. He just got the wrong man because he didn't think for a moment that Peter was capable of it. He might not have had a specific reason to dislike Lupin.

MSLupin

June 12th, 2004, 12:55 am

I think it was just a dramatic line. I also think that the books suggest this isn't true. Hagrid oh-so-tactfully asked Lupin if he had eaten Buckbeak. He said or acted as though Lupin said no. That suggests werewolves have some memory of what they did on the full moon. I suppose it might be a very blurred and unsure memory, though.

I agree that werewolves probably retain some memory of their exploits in both of their forms. The glitch is probably that, as werewolfs, they can't interpret those memories into coherent thought, so most of what they remember is useless to them. Of course, memory and emotion might (and probably are, if you think of the disparity between the psyche of human and werewolf) be entirely different things where recollection is concerned, so I'm sure a someone in werewolf mode probably wouldn't have any qualms attacking a human best friend. Lupin doesn't make it seem so, anyway.

Puffskein

June 12th, 2004, 12:09 pm

But using italics doesn’t make him less likeable, or less Lupin. On the contrary.
I wouldn’t have liked Lupin if he had said: “ please, please Sirius sit down” in a very soft-spoken way. Like begging Sirius.

I'd have preferred it if he'd done it with a look, which works with other people, so why not his old friend? Anyway, it was the wrenching part that was really bothering me.

I agree with you, though. There is a tendency among fans to make Lupin out to be a fluffy doormat or a bucket of angst. He's neither, but his character is very finely balanced between those extremes, which is what makes him so interesting. He can be stern when he wants to, but he can also want too much to be liked, as his creator says. He has a mischievous streak but is still relatively sensible. He's got to be pretty tough, but I'm sure he would appreciate a nice hug (I found the pain in his voice after Sirius fell much more poignant than if he'd collapsed bawling). He's a lot of things at once, even without his beastie side in the equation.

Katarzyna

June 12th, 2004, 2:03 pm

I'd have preferred it if he'd done it with a look, which works with other people, so why not his old friend?
Because 1) he knows his old friend well enough to realize it probably wouldn't work, and 2) he feels comfortable enough with his old friend to take liberties he wouldn't with anyone else.

loony4moony

June 12th, 2004, 8:45 pm

I was just thinking this afternoon (I know, this kind of thing doesn't happen to me very often...:rolleyes:) about the difference between Lupin's reaction to Sirius as the 'traitor' and to Pettigrew as the traitor. Let me explain.

During one of the patronus lessons, when Lupin and Harry are talking about the dementor's kiss, Harry asserts that Sirius 'deserves it.' Lupin's reponse- 'do you really think anyone deserves that?' is one of my favourite lines in the book, because I think it shows his enormous capacity for forgiveness. Even though, to the best of his knowledge, Sirius has gone over to the dark side and been directly responsible for the death of one of his best friends, he still does not believe Sirius to be deserving of the dementor's kiss.

However, in the Shrieking Shack, when Harry insists that Pettigrew is handed to the dementors, Lupin does not protest. Is this because he believes that Harry has the right to condemn Pettigrew to the Kiss, or because he thinks that Pettigrew will not receive the kiss? How do you think his emotional reaction to discovering that Pettigrew was the traitor differed from his reaction to the supposed discovery that Sirius was the traitor?

On a similar topic, what do you think his exact feelings were towards Sirius during that 12-year period? By the time we meet him in POA, he does not seem embittered or bent on revenge- but the subject of Sirius is definitely a very raw nerve for him.

Please feel free to ignore my ramblings....:D Just throwing a few random Lupin-y thoughts around.

Katarzyna

June 12th, 2004, 9:11 pm

about the difference between Lupin's reaction to Sirius as the 'traitor' and to Pettigrew as the traitor.
Good observation! I've thought about a few reasons:

- Lupin does think Sirius deserves the Dementor's kiss, but goes into "teacher mode" when he sees Harry angrily wish that to happen to Sirius.

- Lupin was never completely convinced of Sirius' guilt. Sirius was convicted without a trial, and had always maintained that he was innocent. Pettigrew basically confessed to the crime. The difference in certainty can be important--e.g. for some people it determines whether they'd be in favor of the death penalty or not.

- Lupin was closer to Sirius, and cared for Sirius more than he cared for Pettigrew.

- Pettigrew was not only guilty for killing James and Lily (and 12 muggles), but for Sirius' 12 year imprisonment. Er, no, that one doesn't seem likely.

- I'll probably think of a few more reasons as soon as I log off.

because I think it shows his enormous capacity for forgiveness.

Lupin does have an incredible capacity for forgiveness. Sirius shows that as well, in the Shrieking Shack, when both apologize to one another for their doubts, and immediately forgive each other.

However, in the Shrieking Shack, when Harry insists that Pettigrew is handed to the dementors, Lupin does not protest.
Ooh, thought of another one! Just because Pettigrew will be handed over to the Dementors doesn't mean Pettigrew will receive the kiss. The Dementors have leave to Kiss Sirius, but, as far as Lupin knows, not anyone else. He might've thought that handing Pettigrew over to the Dementors would be equivalent to Pettigrew's arrest, and would lead to a fair trial.

or because he thinks that Pettigrew will not receive the kiss?
Yeah, that!

How do you think his emotional reaction to discovering that Pettigrew was the traitor differed from his reaction to the supposed discovery that Sirius was the traitor?
I was surprised at how calmly and easily Lupin decided he would help Pettigrew. I'd love to know exactly what was going on in his mind during that scene.

On a similar topic, what do you think his exact feelings were towards Sirius during that 12-year period? By the time we meet him in POA, he does not seem embittered or bent on revenge- but the subject of Sirius is definitely a very raw nerve for him.
Lupin says himself that Sirius was not his friend for the past 12 years. But, I can't help but think that deep down inside Lupin had doubts of Sirius' guilt. Lupin believed Sirius' story very quickly, and rejoined their friendship as if he'd been looking for an excuse to forgive him.

Just my 2 Knuts there, though....

loony4moony

June 12th, 2004, 9:57 pm

- Lupin was never completely convinced of Sirius' guilt. Sirius was convicted without a trial, and had always maintained that he was innocent. Pettigrew basically confessed to the crime. The difference in certainty can be important--e.g. for some people it determines whether they'd be in favor of the death penalty or not.

Personally, I think I've always felt that Lupin may have harboured a certain amount of unsurety about Sirius' guilt. It must be a near-impossible thing to accept, that someone you grew up with, trusted with your deepest secrets, went through both good bad times with, was fooling you all along. Even with Lupin's large amount of self-discipline and ability to accept his fate without protest (most notably shown by his reaction to Sirius' death), I think he must have had at least a niggling doubt somewhere deep inside.

- Lupin does think Sirius deserves the Dementor's kiss, but goes into "teacher mode" when he sees Harry angrily wish that to happen to Sirius.

Perhaps this is just another 'like to think' thing, but I really do feel that Lupin's response to Harry's comment is heartfelt, rather than just what he feels he 'ought' to say. Lupin makes light of it (he says the line 'lightly'), but I think he, like Dumbledore, is against the dementors on principle. They are awful, awful creatures, and I think Lupin's words imply that they should not be inflicted on anybody, however heinous the crime.

- Lupin was closer to Sirius, and cared for Sirius more than he cared for Pettigrew.

It is suggested, by 'Snape's worst memory', that Pettigrew was reallly a bit of a hanger-on, an I do agree that it is easier to see Lupin as a closer friend of Sirius than of Pettigrew. But then, as has been pointed out on other threads, Pettigrew must have been closer to the others than was indicated by the one scene in which we see the marauders together- otherwise, why would Sirius have said (paraphrased!) that they would have died for him if neccessary? Personally, although some people tend to split the marauders into two best-friend pairs, I certainly don't think that Lupin would have been closer to Pettigrew than to Sirius. (Sorry, my thoughts are meandering a bit here....)

Lupin does have an incredible capacity for forgiveness. Sirius shows that as well, in the Shrieking Shack, when both apologize to one another for their doubts, and immediately forgive each other.

I love that bit! :D

I don't know if this is a weird suggestion, but do you think that Lupin might actually have been relieved that Pettigrew was the spy rather than Sirius, even though it meant that he (Lupin) had been believing the wrong thing for so long? After all, Sirius and |James were 'like brothers'.

Lupin says himself that Sirius was not his friend for the past 12 years. But, I can't help but think that deep down inside Lupin had doubts of Sirius' guilt. Lupin believed Sirius' story very quickly, and rejoined their friendship as if he'd been looking for an excuse to forgive him.

Yes, I certainly think there's an element of that. And it adds an extra poignancy to the whole story, too- for just that one scene, the friendship between Lupin and Sirius is 'perfect'. It isn't until book 5 that we see how the differences in their personalities have sometimes put them into conflict and how, ultimately, the flaw of recklessness in Sirius' personality 'ends' the friendship in the most tragic way.

Sorry, long-winded post....

Marix

June 12th, 2004, 10:05 pm

You guys know that Lupins middle name is John?
I can't believe that i didn't know that. :grumble:

WolfmanLupin

June 12th, 2004, 10:31 pm

I'm sure that somewhere inside Lupin had doubts about Sirius's guilt. I mean, could you imagine someone you were good friends with one day just doing something totally out of the ordinary, especially that extreme. Besides, if I'm not mistaken, in OOTP, Sirius and Lupin mention to Harry that part of their dislike for Snape was because he came to Hogwarts "neck deep in the Dark Arts." (or something like that) So, certainly Lupin had to doubt that Sirius would have been one of Voldermorts greatest servants.

And back to David Thewles again, he portrayed a good Lupin in the movie, He's just not the Lupin i see or envision when I read. For the most part, he did seem to embody the spirit of Lupin however. Just a personal thought thouh.

Katarzyna

June 12th, 2004, 10:31 pm

but I think he, like Dumbledore, is against the dementors on principle. They are awful, awful creatures, and I think Lupin's words imply that they should not be inflicted on anybody, however heinous the crime.
That's definitely the impression I get as well. But that sort of conflicts with his willingness to kill Pettigrew in cold blood later on. The Dementor's kiss isn't the same thing as death, but they're both serious punishments, and I find it a little odd that he'd be against anyone receiving the Dementor's kiss, but was willing to kill Pettigrew without due process.
Personally, although some people tend to split the marauders into two best-friend pairs, I certainly don't think that Lupin would have been closer to Pettigrew than to Sirius. (Sorry, my thoughts are meandering a bit here....)
No, you're fine. I agree with you that the Marauders aren't two best-friend pairs. I see Sirius and James as best friends, and Lupin nearly as close to both of them as they are to each other. Pettigrew is definitely the hanger-on.

About Sirius saying they would have died for Pettigrew... he says something similar in OotP, when Arthur Weasley was hurt by the snake... that members sometimes have to die for the Order. Sirius shows himself to be fiercely loyal to the people he pledges himself to, whether that group is the Marauders, the Order of the Phoenix, his Godson (who isn't a group, but you get the idea).

I don't know if this is a weird suggestion, but do you think that Lupin might actually have been relieved that Pettigrew was the spy rather than Sirius, even though it meant that he (Lupin) had been believing the wrong thing for so long?
Oh yes! And you're right, it does sound a bit odd, since Lily and James are just as dead, and Harry is just as parentless... but I definitely think Lupin was relieved. I don't think he'd let being wrong get in the way of his being relieved it wasn't Sirius, either... I think Lupin's above that.

Part of the relief might have just been intellectual relief... I'm sure Lupin questioned the situation over and over, not being able to make sense of why Sirius would kill James and Lily, or how Pettigrew ever gathered the courage to confront Sirius.

And part of the relief was that he wasn't alone, as he was before. Before the Shrieking Shack scene, two of Lupin's friends were dead, and one was guilty and in prison. After the scene, one of his friends was still dead, and one was still guilty (though not the same one), but one of them, Sirius, was alive and innocent, and once again, his friend. It must have felt good to have one of your best friends return to you.

Yes, I certainly think there's an element of that. And it adds an extra poignancy to the whole story, too- for just that one scene, the friendship between Lupin and Sirius is 'perfect'. It isn't until book 5 that we see how the differences in their personalities have sometimes put them into conflict and how, ultimately, the flaw of recklessness in Sirius' personality 'ends' the friendship in the most tragic way.
Naw, the friendship hasn't ended just because Sirius is dead.

I am curious though--I don't think Sirius and Lupin were brough into conflict in OotP. They may have disagreed on some points, but I don't think those disagreements manifested into conflicts in their friendship. In other words, I don't think there was a rift. Do you see it differently?

(And yes, I knew the J in Remus J. Lupin stood for John. ;) )

Barbara Kennedy

June 12th, 2004, 10:49 pm

Could James be alive in Lupin's body? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=6349)
I know it's nearly a page late, but here is the thread several of you were asking about earlier.

Cat

June 13th, 2004, 4:18 pm

I agree that werewolves probably retain some memory of their exploits in both of their forms. The glitch is probably that, as werewolfs, they can't interpret those memories into coherent thought, so most of what they remember is useless to them. Of course, memory and emotion might (and probably are, if you think of the disparity between the psyche of human and werewolf) be entirely different things where recollection is concerned, so I'm sure a someone in werewolf mode probably wouldn't have any qualms attacking a human best friend. Lupin doesn't make it seem so, anyway.

I agree that there's nothing to stop a werewolf (who hasn't taken the potion) form killing people they care about, but I was arguing that it seems possible that the werewolf can remember what happened afterwards. It might be difficult to make heads or tails of the memory, but presumably they must be able to remember the basics - like when you wake up with a hangover and bits of the night before suddenly start to creep back.

Anyway, I'm wondering now if the line in the film meant that the werewolf wouldn't know he was killing his or her best friend. If that's the case, it sounds right to me. I originally thought it meant that the werewolf wouldn't know afterwards what had happened.

RemusLupinFan

June 13th, 2004, 4:29 pm

Anyway, I'm wondering now if the line in the film meant that the werewolf wouldn't know he was killing his or her best friend. If that's the case, it sounds right to me. I originally thought it meant that the werewolf wouldn't know afterwards what had happened.

Yes, I think that line means the werewolf wouldn't know he was killing his best friend because while in wolf form, the person loses his rational mind. After transforming, the werewolf has only a strong instinct to hunt human prey, no matter if that prey is his best friend or a complete stranger. I think that line was put into the movie to emphasize the fact that someone who is a werewolf is essentially two beings, and the wolf part of his/her being doesn't remember the human part when he/she is transformed.

Artanis

June 13th, 2004, 8:26 pm

Gah!! A thread about Lupin! Must...reply...with...something...!

He is not a saint, he is just the loveliest guy ever.

gottalovelupin, you said it perfectly. Being somewhat addicted to angst :nc: ;), I admit that I have a tendency to want to focus on that aspect and sometimes that means I exlcude other character aspects. Taking a step back and blinking always makes me realize that "Hey - there's more to the character than this!!"; makes me remember why I obsess over the character (in this case, Lupin).

I think if he were a saint, he just wouldn't be as...loveable. Savvy?

Cheers!

Artanis (Sworn Lupin Lover) :cool:

loony4moony

June 13th, 2004, 8:39 pm

Originally posted by Katarzyna Naw, the friendship hasn't ended just because Sirius is dead.

Yup, my thoughts too. :) That's why I 'quoted' it.

I am curious though--I don't think Sirius and Lupin were brough into conflict in OotP. They may have disagreed on some points, but I don't think those disagreements manifested into conflicts in their friendship. In other words, I don't think there was a rift. Do you see it differently?

I wouldn't go as far as to say there was a 'rift'. Just that there was a certain amount of difference in opinion (as you said)- or rather, mostly, a memory of differences that once existed. I don't think that this in any way detracted from the closeness or value of their friendship, which is, by the way, one of my favourite elements of bk5- but I do feel that it was present.

It's part and parcel of the more rounded picture that bk5 gives us that we start to see how, even though his friends were extremely important to him, they also caused Lupin difficulties in his teenage years, ie the moral conflict and guilt over the bullying of Snape. This maturity difference is emphasised by the contrast in their attitudes concerning Harry. That's really what I meant, as a pose to a rift of any kind.

EDIT: :welcome: to our Lupin madness, Artanis!

Mod wolf

June 13th, 2004, 8:58 pm

I know it's going back a bit on this thread, but I think we'll never see any evidence of Remus/Lily in canon, whether JK intended it or Kloves got a bit too creative with his 'creative licence'.

It would be too...tacky. Like some sort of soap opera. i.e "Harry! I was in love with your mother!" doesn't sound right.

As regards a 'rift' between Sirius and Lupin, there would always be some sort of barrier between them, due their suspicion of each other and Lupin's guilt at having abandoned Sirius for 12 years. This might lead to slight disagreements leading to conflicts in their relationship.

P.S I'm new. Hello.

Katarzyna

June 13th, 2004, 9:20 pm

:welcome: Mod wolf!

It would be too...tacky. Like some sort of soap opera. i.e "Harry! I was in love with your mother!" doesn't sound right.
I agree--it's tacky, and, for lack of a better word, just plain icky.

loony4moony

June 13th, 2004, 9:25 pm

:lol: I'm mostly inclined to agree. But I'll never say never- if JKR does do that, and if she does it well, I won't be complaining.

Blossom

June 13th, 2004, 9:30 pm

ah Lupin :love:

lets just hope he doesn't die. LOL, can you imagine a soap-opra style deathbed confession 'Harry...I am your father' hehe (and yes i know he isn't).

Do you think he has ever bitten/killed anyone in wolf mode?

Lone Wolf

June 13th, 2004, 9:45 pm

Sorry for jumping in on the thread but I'd just like to add some thoughts of my own about the whole 'werewolf retaining their memory during the full moon'

As it was mentioned, in the book Hagrid told the kids that he had asked Professor Lupin if he remembered eating anything the night he transformed PoA page 308 UK edition 'But Lupin said he never ate anythin' las' night...'

What if this was because Lupin takes the Wolfsbane? I know he didn't take it the night he transformed, but he had been taking it prior to that occassion, so it's possible that some of the potion would still be in his bloodstream, not enough to render him harmless, but just enough for him to recall his actions.

I do believe though, that a werewolf who doesn't take any Wolfsbane, would have no recollection of anything he did prior to and during his transformation.

Katarzyna

June 13th, 2004, 9:59 pm

Lets see--in PoA (p260 UK adult softcover), Lupin says, "Under their influence I became less dangerous. My body was wolfish, but my mind seemed to become less so when I was with them."

That sounds to me like Lupin does have some recollections of when he's a wolf. It also sounds like the recollections have varying degrees of "wolfishness". Perhaps when his mind was most wolfish, he'd remember things mostly by how they smelled and felt, and when he was more human, he'd have more human-like memories.

Mod wolf

June 13th, 2004, 10:17 pm

Also, PoA (p.260 hardback version)

'A thought that still haunts me,' siad Lupin heavily. 'And there were near misses, many of them. We laughed about them afterwards.'

So , Lupin must have had some memory of what happened during the full moon.

Artanis

June 13th, 2004, 10:36 pm

ah Lupin :love:

lets just hope he doesn't die. LOL, can you imagine a soap-opra style deathbed confession 'Harry...I am your father' hehe (and yes i know he isn't).

:lol: @ Blossom

On a more serious note, I don't think Lupin will die (at least, he'd better not!!!) namely because JKR has laready taken away Harry's main source of "adult" support: Sirius. :upset: (I had tears streaming down my face by the end of OotP!!!) Therefore I don't think she's going to take away the other adult he cares the most for. I also think that Lupin will have a bigger role to play in the coming books because of the gap left by Sirius' death. Too much of Remus Lupin? No such thing! :love:

'A thought that still haunts me,' siad Lupin heavily. 'And there were near misses, many of them. We laughed about them afterwards.'

So, Lupin must have had some memory of what happened during the full moon.

Ah...fodder for fanfic. Ack! The Muse is attacking!! (I solemnly swear not to turn Lupin into an introverted basket of angst!)

Going back up the thread a bit, I just have to say that I loved Thewlis as Lupin. When I first saw him as Lupin I went What?!? but since seeing the movie, I've changed my tune. He's everything I wanted. Face fur notwithstanding. ;)

Oh...and loony4moony? Thanks for the welcome! I just joined yesterday!

Cheers!

~Artanis

p.s. this may be the wrong place for this and I apologize if it is, but does anyone know where I could get a (movie) Lupin signature banner thingie? Just send me an owl... Again, apologies if this is the wrong place!

gottaloveLupin

June 14th, 2004, 1:49 pm

I really don't understand why do you feel that there was tension between Sirius and Lupin.

In the “ Sit down Sirius in italics” scene Lupin didn’t fight with Sirius. On the contrary, he agreed with Sirius.
It was the same as saying: Sirius, you are right to get angry, Molly overreacted, but lets make peace. It’s not worthy to fight with each other. There are more important things to do.
In that scene he was on Sirius’s side.
By telling Molly that she wasn’t the only one who loved Harry he basically told her to shut up ( but in a subtle way) because she had offended Sirius, and she was wrong in her attitude.
I don’t see any tension there between Padfoot and Moony
The proof: there isn’t any mention of Sirius looking coldly at Lupin or of Sirius being upset with Lupin’s interference.
On the contrary: 2 minutes after the fight between Molly and Sirius, Lupin and Sirius were completing each others ideas, talking about Voldemort.
Sirius is upset with Molly and with Dumbledore, not with Lupin.

Sirius and lupin may not agree on everything, but this doesn’t represent a conflict and doesn’t make them less friends.

And I really don’t think that they spent time talking about Sirius’s angst and frustration because he couldn’t help the Order.
I don’t think that Sirius complaint about that when he was alone with Lupin, and I don’t think that lupin tried to temperate Sirius.
I think that they spent their time together talking about the past and about Harry.

Any proof of the conflict between Sirius an lupin? Cause I don’t see a thing. On the contrary, I see two extremely close friends, who know each other very well and care about each other a lot. And it saddens me a lot that Sirius is gone and lupin is alone again.

Artanis

June 14th, 2004, 3:09 pm

I never saw any tension between them, honestly - namely because when you're really close with someone, you know you'll disagree with them and you know you'll have arguments...but you also know that that doesn't mean you love each other less. One of my best friends is my complete opposite - and we can get into these incredibly heated debates knowing we're not going to convince each other, but knowing that we're still able to pick up the phone and call anytime. It's just a case, as I see it, of Lupin being more level-headed than Sirius; Sirius, I think, has a bit of a hot temper that may cloud his thinking sometimes.

And *sniff* Lupin's alone again one Sirius is gone. :(

Best,

Artanis :cool:

gottaloveLupin

June 14th, 2004, 3:20 pm

I wasn't referring to you Artanis.
It was a general " you" : all the persons who think that there was tension between Sirius and Lupin.
I agree with you.

hey_itz_me

June 14th, 2004, 3:51 pm

So, why DID Sirius suspect Lupin of being the spy?
bowlwoman

i saw a good answer to that. (also, i can think now! yay! :tu:
firstly, maybe jkr let that slide because she would put it in a later book. not because (at this point) i believe it, but i saw on one of the boards, when harry is looking at his parent's wedding picture, LUPIN WASNT IN IT!!! sure, we tell ourselves that it was because it was on a full moon, but why would james schedual it for a full moon? maybe remus didnt want to come because he liked lilly, so couldnt bear to watch her get married to james. (aww... :upset: )
just a theorie, though.

Hogwarts Lake

June 14th, 2004, 6:13 pm

Maybe Remus took that picture? Perhaps he was there in other pictures? Harry didn't notice Sirius in it until he knew Sirius but he knew Lupin by then so he should have...So was he not there at the wedding?

Even in the picture of the first OotP he isn't sitting next to Lily, James, Sirius or Wormtail why? Did they abandon him thinking he was the traitor?

Blossom

June 14th, 2004, 6:41 pm

I've always thought that the picute would have been taken by a pro that they'd hired but Hagrid said something like he'd asked around from friends for piccies so it's quit possible that he took it. any proffessional ones would most likely been destroyed with the house i suppose. but why was lupin never made harry's god father? you normally have two of the same sex, one of another.

demonscythe

June 14th, 2004, 7:01 pm

I've heard something vague about Lily having used a Switching Spell on James to transfer his "soul" to R.J. Lupin's body. While there is little evidence to support this theory the "J" in RJ Lupin may in fact be a hint of this( J as in James as in James Potter). It's just an idea and since I'm new here forgive me if I'm saying something which you guys have already discussed.

loony4moony

June 14th, 2004, 7:13 pm

gottalovelupin- I'm not sure if you were referring to me with regards to the tension thing, but just to clarify:

I wouldn't use the word 'tension'- I was just pointing out that OOTP gave us a more rounded picture of what their friendship was like, and that friendship included (or, at least had in the past included) differences in opinion which may have occasionally caused upset. Just like any friendship.

I certainly agree that this doesn't make their friendship any less close or valuable. :)

Luna1982

June 14th, 2004, 7:14 pm

I believe that miss J.K said that the J stood for John.

Katarzyna

June 14th, 2004, 10:52 pm

I believe that miss J.K said that the J stood for John.
On a total tangent, I wonder if she ever considered Wolfgang as a middle name, in case people didn't get the hints provided by "Remus" and "Lupin". ;)

RemusLupinFan

June 14th, 2004, 10:56 pm

Ooh, Remus Wolfgang Lupin. Has a bit of a ring to it. Although I think it's a bit too much, poor Remus needs an ordinary name (perhaps to go by in the Muggle world). :)

Bouncing_Ferret

June 15th, 2004, 1:48 pm

On the weddings photo note, well, I suppose Lupin might have kept any photos he had of himself with James and Lily, and just given the plain Bride/Groom/Best Dog photos to Harry. For one, Lupin would have liked something to remember his friendship with James and Lily, and there wasn't really any reason to specifically give Harry any photos which included him.

AbbyMuggle

June 15th, 2004, 4:51 pm

mmmmm...:love:Remus Lupin - my absolute favourite character thus far (aside from Harry)....Some people say that they didn't like Thewlis as Lupin, but I think it goes great! (they could have done without the mustache though;)). But I fell in love with his character in the book, and allow me to say, that if J.K. kills him off, I will be most upset, and I will most likely fly to England (or wherever she is currently living), and TP her house...or egg it...but I really hope that isn't necessary (Sirius was bad enough, let's leave at least one maurauder alive and very well! - peter doesn't count)

Julia

June 15th, 2004, 4:57 pm

Well I really don´t think that this photo has something to do with the reason why Sirius suspected Remus. And I don´t think that Remus was in love with Lilly, he just liked her. I must say that I don´t know why Sirius ever suspected Remus but in my oppinion it wasn´t because Remus was in love with Lilly.

Katarzyna

June 15th, 2004, 5:00 pm

let's leave at least one maurauder alive and very well! - peter doesn't count)
No, he doesn't, but I doubt Peter's going to live to see the end.

RE: the wedding photo: It could be that Lupin was in the photo, or in one of the other wedding photos, and Harry simply didn't notice him. He hadn't noticed Sirius Black before he specifically went looking for him, and since he wasn't looking for Lupin, Harry might've overlooked him.

loony4moony

June 15th, 2004, 5:47 pm

Mod wolf

June 15th, 2004, 6:00 pm

I think it might have been me who brought up the whole tension idea. Just to clarify, I didn't think that there actually was any, just the possibility that there could have been.

I'm not too sure why I brought it up really.

Anyway, with the photo, Harry may have been too caught up in the fact that the man who 'murdered' his parents was there with them. And, lets face it, Lupin isn't exactly the type to stand out in a large group photo. Just a theory.

Pallas

June 15th, 2004, 7:35 pm

This whole photo thing is cropping up everywhere and has me a bit bemused to be honest. :huh: There's a whole thread devoted to the issue of why Lupin was not in the wedding photo floating around somewhere, plus it was brought up again in the "Lupin Loves Lily" thread at Divination Studies - but it never even crossed my mind before finding those that there was any particular reason he should be. Hundreds of pictures are taken at weddings - bride and groom, bride and bridesmaids, bride, groom and best man, full family ensemble, official and unofficial etc - and I've always got the impression it was just bride, groom and best man in the shot; no one else is mentioned after all and this picture is for Harry - would he have been interested in a crowd of unknown faces? Lupin's absence from one picture amongst many does not mean he was not at the wedding or even that he was taking the picture. It just means he wasn't in that particular photo. You might as well say - why was Peter not in the picture? Why weren't Lily or James' parents? Why weren't any of Lily's friends? Why wasn't Dumbledore? Besides if, as most likely, Lupin was the one who sent the picture to Hagrid, he probably (as someone said) either took it himself, or would simply not want to send Harry a picture with himself in it; he doesn't really like to draw attention to himself after all. Perhaps he's camera shy! :p I have no doubt he was at the wedding - just not in that particular shot. I don't see anything sinister about it at all. :) :huh:

As to the Lupin and Lily thing - I haven't seen POA yet so the nuances of the scene escape me but I've always assumed they were probably friends before Lily and James got together, especially since they were most likely the two Gryffindor prefects and therefore probably spent a lot of time together in fifth and sixth year. I've often wondered if Lupin was the one who talked Lily into giving James a chance in the first place. ;)

Katarzyna

June 15th, 2004, 7:54 pm

I've always got the impression it was just bride, groom and best man in the shot; no one else is mentioned after all and this picture is for Harry - would he have been interested in a crowd of unknown faces?
Because these unknown faces are, presumably, friends of his parents.

It just means he wasn't in that particular photo.
I think it's being brought up because people are putting themselves in Harry's place, and figuring that after finding the picture of Sirius, that they'd look for a picture of Lupin as well, either in that photo or in another wedding photo. Or a picture of Pettigrew, or other friends of Lily and James. It's something I would do, and it's a bit odd that it's not mentioned. Not terribly odd, just a bit, and it does lead to all kinds of thoughts of a rift in the friendship.

Of course, Harry is a 13 year old boy, and quite upset and angry at the time, and it probably didn't occur to him to look for others he might know.

You might as well say - why was Peter not in the picture?
To spare the camera? ;)

As to the Lupin and Lily thing - I haven't seen POA yet so the nuances of the scene escape me but I've always assumed they were probably friends before Lily and James got together, especially since they were most likely the two Gryffindor prefects and therefore probably spent a lot of time together in fifth and sixth year. I've often wondered if Lupin was the one who talked Lily into giving James a chance in the first place. ;)
That's a very good theory!

Glee

June 15th, 2004, 8:12 pm

about the picture thing, I bet he's in there but JKR doesn't have to describe every single little detail to us just so we don't come up with silly theories.

tension between sirius and lupin? when did sirius suspect lupin? they're really good friends, all friends have differences in opinions... it's all normal, nothing to worry about if you ask me

I love Moony too! He's going to live... he has to...

Geez! I noticed when I post I sound so mean...:"( sorry about that

Katarzyna

June 15th, 2004, 8:41 pm

tension between sirius and lupin? when did sirius suspect lupin?
In PoA, in the Shrieking Shack, Sirius confessed that he didn't tell Lupin about having the Potters switch their Secret Keeper to Pettigrew, because Sirius thought Lupin was the spy. He apologized for his suspicion soon afterwards, and Lupin apologized for thinking Sirius was actually guilty. Lovely scene, that... but yes, they did once suspect each other.

Mrs Padfoot

June 15th, 2004, 8:43 pm

Of course, Harry is a 13 year old boy, and quite upset and angry at the time, and it probably didn't occur to him to look for others he might know.

I agree, he only looked to check that Sirius was the best man.

But, the bigest reason why Lupin wasn't in the wedding photos (or that Harry doesn't notice him) is that it wouldn't have worked in terms of the plot. You can talk about character all you want, but sometimes things happen because otherwise the story wouldn't work. If Harry had known that Lupin was good friends with Sirius and James, then it would have ruined that twist at the end.

muggledeedee

June 15th, 2004, 11:20 pm

I have seen some references to it - but no big discussion about the possiblity that Lupin IS James Potter..... let me know if this is old topic - I haven't seen the old thread.....

It is possible that Lily performed a switching spell on James & Remus and that Remus was the one Voldemort killed that night and that James is still stuck in Lupin's body. They might have done this to throw off Voldemort - and they never told anyone else, not Sirius or Peter and not even Dumbledore.

This could explain a lot. Like the fact that the current Lupin (who is actually James) does love Lily. I am sure Lupin himself didn't love her. And I sensed from the book that Lupin had a very soft spot when it came to Harry - one I didn't quite sense with Sirius. I didn't understand it at the time but this theory could explain that closeness.

I never would have thought of this myself - I got it from a book that analyzes the first four HP books - and at first I thought the author was out of her mind - but the more I thought about it the more I started to see some things in Lupin that could not be explained except if he really were James.

It could also explain how Hagrid got the key to the Potter vault at Gringott's and how Dumbledore got the invisibility cloak as well. Maybe after Lily and Lupin in James' body were murdered, James in Lupin's body went to Dumbledore. They could have decided that it was best for harry to go to the Dursley's and that James continue to pretend to be Lupin just in case Voldemort was not really dead.

Any thoughts? Am I out of line?

Artanis

June 16th, 2004, 12:57 am

Not out of line no - it seems to me that that would imply you were doing something illegal. And I don't think you were. ;)

To topic :D

It would be an interesting theory, muggledeedee, except for the fact that I *believe* JKR said that we won't see a live James anytime in the series. (Am I correct in saying this?) But yes - it certainly would explain alot of things...things I never thought about until you mentioned them!

Cheers!

~Artanis :cool:

Bouncing_Ferret

June 16th, 2004, 1:52 am

But if Lupin really was James, then there wouldn't be a Lupin, which would be very sad, because Lupin's fantastic, and James is...dead! :huh: Hm, I do confuse myself in this place, don't I?

As far as Lupin being in love with Lily - well, until I see/read evidence of this in the books, I'm taking Kloves' theory and the PoA bridge scene with a whole big grain of salt. I really can't see many opportunities for Harry to find out about Lupin being in love with Lily... unless there's another Pensieve adventure in store.

gottaloveLupin

June 16th, 2004, 8:40 am

I don't think the wedding photo thing is a big deal. He's not there because JKR didn't put him there...it would have complicated the plot to have Harry asking too many questions about Lupin's relationship with his father and Sirius at that stage.

exactly. I don't think that lupin wasn't present at the wedding.
It's just that at that point of the story JKR didn't want to reveal us too much about James- Sirius-lupin.
It would have ruined the surprise.
in that scene it was important for Harry to find out about Sirius, not about Lupin.

And I don't think that there is more to " Sirius suspecting Lupin" than what we saw in POA.
Voldemort had some information about the Potters that could come only from someone extremely close to the Potters.
Sirius didn't think of Peter because he considered him as too unimportant to be capable of such a treason.
So who was left? Lupin.
I don’t think that Sirius suspected Lupin for a long time. I think that everything happened really quickly.

Someone said that there probably was a tension between the two due to the fact that they had suspected each other of treason in the past.
I don’t think it’s true.
Sirius forgave Lupin and Lupin forgave Sirius in POA. There is nothing more to it. No tension comes from here.

Hogwarts Lake

June 16th, 2004, 3:07 pm

I agree he only looked to check that Sirius was the best man.

But, the biggest reason why Lupin wasn't in the wedding photos (or that Harry doesn't notice him) is that it wouldn't have worked in terms of the plot. You can talk about character all you want, but sometimes things happen because otherwise the story wouldn't work. If Harry had known that Lupin was good friends with Sirius and James, then it would have ruined that twist at the end.
Good point I agree. We wouldn't have been surprised if he had found out before.

I wonder if he has pictures of Lupin in that album...

Sirius only suspected Lupin because the spy was an insider an he thought Peter to be too foolish and cowardly to serve Voldemort but then he realises his mistake and it was too late :p But they forgave each other that night in the SS. I didn't see any "tension" between them

But I have been wondering why wasn't Lupin sitting next to Sirius, James, Lily and Peter in the first Order picture, the one which Moody showed Harry. We tend to sit with our friends, don't we? Dumbledore was sitting next to Moody and Sirius was sitting next to James so why was Lupin in another row?

But I fell in love with his character in the book, and allow me to say, that if J.K. kills him off, I will be most upset, and I will most likely fly to England (or wherever she is currently living), and TP her house...or egg it...but I really hope that isn't necessary (Sirius was bad enough, let's leave at least one marauder alive and very well! - peter doesn't count)

I will be extremely upset not to mention, shocked if she kills off Lupin. It was bad enough Sirius had to die. Harry would be devastated :( Remus Lupin is one of my favourite characters and I truly hope he has a happy life in the end - someone may invent a permanent cure for him or he gets cured by accident :huh: Poor Remus first that horrible werewolf curse and now having to lose his last friend :( I hope he (or Neville or Harry) kills Bellatrix, even nicer if he kills her as a wolf :evil:

loony4moony

June 16th, 2004, 4:32 pm

Ah, I don't think Lupin's going to be out for revenge. It's not in his character. He'll fight when he needs to, and kill her if he has to, but he wouldn't go looking for her.

HP_WizKid

June 16th, 2004, 9:40 pm

Okay so Lupin rules, and I soooo want to seee him live through the books and find alot more about him.
So anyway I thought I'd look up some info on werewolves :some gives flicks of hope and some is kinda worrying/sad.

Well first there are two types Alpha and Beta.
Alpha is someone who is born , cursed into werewolfry(thats not a word, i'm sure) and
Beta is someone who is bitten.
Werewolves do not age like normal humans, and are immune to the majority of diseases humans get.They are virtually immortal.
Firstly it probably known to most that werewolves can only be killed by silver but I read that also certain wounds to the heart or brain will also kill a werewolf.(this is not good for Lupin)
Werewolves can only have hope to ever return to normal again if they never taste human blood.Now this worries me vvveryy much, has Lupin tasted blood of another human , I seriously hope not(didnt he taste Sirius's or James blood when they were at school maybe if he got out of control in shrieking shack or if he hurt someone else, also wouldnt Sirius have been condemning Lupin if he had succeeded in letting Snape into the shrieking shack(the trick he played at school))
Anyhow, if a werewolf tastes human blood he is condemned to be chained to the earth forever even beyond death.
How horrible , poor Lupin I hope this is not necessary for Lupin.

okay if you read this then I hope it has enlightened you , it did me and I'm sure theres more to find out so I'm looking up more.
(Hopefully Lupin does not have to go through any of this)

sheilajsn

June 16th, 2004, 10:28 pm

This is what I think about the whole Lupin being in love with Lily and Lupin being really James:
Lupin being in love with Lily
(And here we are talking exclusively about the movie, because JKR hasn’t imply any of the sort in the books) I think there is a chance Lupin might have loved Lily, but more like a platonic, secret, unreachable love. She is always referred as being kind and sweet, and after “Snape’s worst memory” we can say she didn’t tolerate injustice. So I think Lupin felt a deep admiration towards Lily, and that he was happy when she chose his very good friend, James (there’s no way I’m going to accept that Lupin could be envious of James, so don’t even try that one).
Lupin really being James
Now, about this theory, not only I don’t believe it, I REFUSE to believe it. If James didn’t die, where was him the 11 terrible years that Harry had to live with the Dursleys? Why would he let his son (the boy who lived) suffer abuse and lack of affection? Is that really the kind of man you guys think James Potter is? I definitely don’t. It would be terrible for Harry to find out his father is a coward who, not only let his family and one of his best friends die (without him doing anything about it), but he has been hiding ever since. What kind of person does that? Not to mention that it’s highly unlikely that James would do something so important and not tell Sirius (his best friend, whom he loved as a brother). And that gives me another reason to think that theory is wrong: James knew Peter was the Secret Keeper. That means he knew Peter was the one who betrayed them. So, he stayed conveniently hidden while everybody thought Sirius was the one who betrayed the Potters? Let’s see, James let Lily and Lupin die, was willing to let Harry die as well (because he didn’t know Voldermot’s curse would backfire), he didn’t go looking for Peter to seek revenge, and let everybody think Sirius was a traitor. Not to mention that he abandoned his only son. What a nice person, don’t you think? :huh: That’s not the James Potter I have in my mind.

Oh! By the way, all I just said was needless because JKR already said that we would never see Harry’s parents alive in the books. Yes, James is dead.

Mental2k

June 16th, 2004, 10:37 pm

It is of course entirely possible that lupin was in the whole werewolf phase while the wedding was going on, perhaps with all the sudden stress he had a bad case of the werewolfs(sorry). Would explain why h wasnt there.

Do you think that if The trio asked Lupin how to do the whole animagi thing he would tell them, I'm pretty sure Sirius would have, but would Lupin. Hmmmm.

gottaloveLupin

June 18th, 2004, 7:59 am

Ah, I don't think Lupin's going to be out for revenge. It's not in his character. He'll fight when he needs to, and kill her if he has to, but he wouldn't go looking for her.

totally agree.
I think he is pretty good at fighting. What do you think?
JKR doesn't telll us much about Lupin fighting in MOM, but he was, together with Kingsley, the only one who wasn't hurt in battle.

loony4moony

June 18th, 2004, 11:24 am

I don't know, Tane- my interpretation of the shrieking shack scene was that Sirius was desperate to kill Pettigrew, whereas Lupin was willing to. There's a grimness about the way Lupin goes about it, as though he recognises that it needs to be done, but isn't enjoying it in the slightest.

Silvarius

June 18th, 2004, 6:10 pm

totally agree.
I think he is pretty good at fighting. What do you think?
JKR doesn't telll us much about Lupin fighting in MOM, but he was, together with Kingsley, the only one who wasn't hurt in battle.

Actually wasn't Kingsley injured after fighting Bellatrix?

But about the Lupin killing Pettigrew thing, I agree with loony4moony, he knew what had to be done, just wasn't keen on doing it.

Miss Weasley

June 18th, 2004, 6:40 pm

About the whole wedding-photograph mess:it's mentioned in Book 5 that the picture with Sirius as best man in it is the only one Harry possesses of him,and it was part of the album Hagrid had compiled for Harry by writing off to his parents' friends for the photographs.I'm guessing Lupin was one of the people he owled,but there must've been others,too.
I agree with loony4moony-Lupin didn't seem to relish the idea of killing Pettigrew,he just behaved like it had to be done,like it was a moral duty in his part.I don't think he relishes violence much-which is interesting,considering that he turns into one of the most dangerous beasts known to wizardkind at the rate of once every month,and he'll continue like that for the rest of his natural life (of course,there is the Wolfsbane Potion,but still).

Katarzyna

June 24th, 2004, 6:50 pm

Here's either a lame excuse to bump up the thread, or Kat's dumb idea of the week:

What if the werewolf in St. Mungos, the one that was sharing a room with Arthur Weasley after the Nagini attack, what if he became a werewolf because Lupin bit him? Ok, I know it's farfetched, but Lupin did go to him right away--maybe he recognized the guy because Lupin bit him. Maybe it happened while Lupin was on duty for the Order of the Phoenix, for some reason. Or, er, maybe I should just restrict these ideas to fanfiction....

rock_ally

June 24th, 2004, 7:11 pm

RemusLupinFan

June 24th, 2004, 10:42 pm

Lupin is an amazing character. In the Prisoner of Azkaban, he was a big mentor to Harry. I think he most definitely has a sense of humor. Point proven, in the Order of the Pheonix when the four friends were coming out of their exam, joking about the werewolf question. I don't think we've seen the last of him either. now that Sirius is *sniff* gone, i think Lupis will become even closer to Harry. i can't wait to see

Yes definately, I agree with everything you said. I, for one, hope we see more of Lupin and his past in future books. He was definately a bit ingnored in book 5.

Lupin's Patronus...hmm
I have always wondered what form it took while rereading PoA. If I had to guess I'd say perhaps his patronus would be a padfoot-like dog. But I'm not sure, because when he conjures the patronus on the train in PoA, he thinks Sirius is guilty of murder and betrayal.

whizbang121

June 25th, 2004, 3:40 pm

I checked the thread titles and did a search, but .......
Hope I've got it right.

In the March 4 interview, we learned that Lupin is a half blood.
In the new PoA movie, Lupin delivers a moving speech about Lily. She saw beauty in others. She was uncommonly kind. She was there for him when no one else was. Lily was a muggleborn.

If we put these two thoughts together, can we speculate that somehow they knew each other outside the wizarding world? Were they related? Neighbors? Did they go to kindergarten together?

Could Lupin have been Petunia's "awful boy?"

JessieShockey

June 25th, 2004, 9:00 pm

Rather than replying to every post I'd like to discuss/argue about (because there are too many - I think I could talk about remus for ages), I'm going to list my specific opinions/observations on the common points of discussion.

I would not be surprised if he'd had a crush/harbored secret affection for Lily Evans, but I think he would have moved past it for James's sake. And no, he's not James, that's ridiculous.

Remus is despirately lonely and horribly repressed. He wants very badly for people to like him. Every thing about his character suggests it. He never stood up for what was right, back in school, because he didn't want to risk his friendship with the other Marauders. He's incredibly greatful to Dumbledore, but he doesn't tell him that Sirius is an animagus, because he doesn't want Dumbledore to dislike him for breaking his trust. He is the peacekeeper at Grimmauld place, but he never interferres in a fight if it would endanger his standing with either participant. He has been lucky enough, however, to finally find a group of friends that he CAN trust completely, and who aren't doing anything that they ought not be doing.

I think he would have been more than willing to kill Pettigrew in the Shack. Pettigrew betrayed him and RUINED. HIS. LIFE. Remus is not reluctant about Sirius's suggestion that they kill Pettigrew. He agrees with him quite easily and amiably, and even argues with Harry when he asks them not to do it.

Remus may have seemed calm and rational at the end of OotP, but I think he was pretty close to cracking on the inside. After having his entire world taken away, fourteen years ago, he finally got a piece of it back, only to have it ripped away again. That would mess anyone up. He's an expert at keeping a brave and calm mask in place by this point, though, and no one else is ever going to get to see how hard the events at the MoM hit him. I'd hate to see him the day after the next full moon, though.

And, finally - I think he's doomed. I hate to say it, because I adore him as a character, and I don't WANT it to be true, but I think he's very likely destined to die in one of the next two books. He's going to go after Pettigrew. There's no doubt about that in my mind. And given the opportunity, he's going to try and make him pay. Unfortunatly for him, Pettigrew now has two huge advantages that he did not have in the third book: Powerful friends, and a VERY POWERFUL SILVER HAND. If that's not a Rowling hint, I don't know what is.

Katarzyna

June 25th, 2004, 10:57 pm

Remus is despirately lonely and horribly repressed.
Why do you say he's horribly repressed?

Snuffles_Lupin

June 26th, 2004, 12:29 am

WOW. I love this thread. I'm a HUGE Lupin fan. (obviously since I'm here) My brother and I have both agreed that Lupin will (hopefully) play a larger role in the next 2 books, seeing as he's the only one that was that close to his parents and all.
As for Lupin going after Bellatix...I think that he will not go after her, but if given the change he may seek justice for killing Sirius. Then again Harry and Neville both have good reason to go after her.

ramones

June 26th, 2004, 4:54 am

Lupin should go and bite all the DE and make there life's miserable!

As for the wedding picture, Harry has only one. Maybe it had only the bride, groom, best man and bride's maid. Actually, it doesn't mention a bride's maid, but I think she might be there. When we find out more about Lily, Harry will look back at the pic and see her there.
I don't think it matters if he's in the wedding pic or if he's not with the Potter's in the pic of the order.

I love Lupin. Then again, I say that about every character! :rotfl:

Whizbang
That is possible, but we don't know if the movie got it right. In the books there is no mention of the fact that he might have liked Lily or that they were friends.

whizbang121

June 26th, 2004, 6:08 am

Whizbang
That is possible, but we don't know if the movie got it right. In the books there is no mention of the fact that he might have liked Lily or that they were friends.
Good point and well taken. I am assuming that JKR was consulted on the screen play and so she probably approved that scene. But I don't actually know this to be true. :rolleyes:

strange magic

June 27th, 2004, 5:20 am

whizbang121

June 27th, 2004, 5:30 am

For Lupin not in the wedding Picture could also be just that Lupin was taking the picture.

For Killing your best friends and not knowing it...didn't a certain red head do that in her first year

People always relate Harry to James only and that really bugs me...
Harry is like all of the Marauders.
Sirus: His Family was Abuseive and Neglecting.
Remus: The curse
James: looks and the stag.
as for his personality it is a orginal
Lupin may have been taking the picture. He may have been off getting some punch, too.
You're right about Harry and the marauders. He does share features with three of them and his mother. Hopefully, we won't see much of Wormtail in Harry. :no:

What red head?

Katarzyna

June 27th, 2004, 6:09 am

People always relate Harry to James only and that really bugs me...
I agree--Harry is his own person.

Harry is like all of the Marauders.
Sirus: His Family was Abuseive and Neglecting.
Remus: The curse
James: looks and the stag.
as for his personality it is a orginal
Interesting. How do you think Harry is like Peter Pettigrew, if he has anything in common with Pettigrew at all? (Er, sorry, this might be a bit off topic. If that's so, might someone direct me or my post to the correct place? Thanks!)

strange magic

June 27th, 2004, 7:18 am

I forgot about that! I don't consider Peter a Marauder ;) . that is why I did not metion him.

Hogwarts Lake

June 27th, 2004, 8:49 am

Lupin may have been taking the picture. He may have been off getting some punch, too.
You're right about Harry and the marauders. He does share features with three of them and his mother. Hopefully, we won't see much of Wormtail in Harry. :no:

What red head?

I'm guessing Ginny?

I forgot about that! I don't consider Peter a Marauder ;) . that is why I did not metion him. neither do I :p

And, finally - I think he's doomed. I hate to say it, because I adore him as a character, and I don't WANT it to be true, but I think he's very likely destined to die in one of the next two books. He's going to go after Pettigrew. There's no doubt about that in my mind. And given the opportunity, he's going to try and make him pay. Unfortunatly for him, Pettigrew now has two huge advantages that he did not have in the third book: Powerful friends, and a VERY POWERFUL SILVER HAND. If that's not a Rowling hint, I don't know what is. nooooooooooooo that stupid rat can't kill him :sad:
I have a strong feeling he will live because he is the last marauder left alive and perhaps JK wouldn't want to kill him...or maybe she does because of the same reason :sad:

Trinny

June 27th, 2004, 10:30 am

How horrible if Pettigrew will be the only Marauder to survive.... Werewolves doesn't respond to silver very well so there's a big possiblity that he will kill our dear Lupin. :scared: :td:

I don't want to lose Lupin too! Sirius was bad enough. :upset:

loony4moony

June 27th, 2004, 11:39 am

I'm sorry, but I'm still not buying the whole silver hand theory. JKR has had ample oppurtunity to foreshadow this- for example, during the werewolf lesson in PofA- but she hasn't mentioned it at all. I'd like to think that if this silver hand was going to cause something as major as Lupin's death, she'd give us some warning. Just because werewolves are killed by silver (and that's silver bullets, mind) in general mythology, it doesn't follow that they are in JK Rowling's world.

That's not saying that the silver hand won't have a devastating little role of its own, which I'm sure it will. I'm just doubting that the role will be Lupin's destruction.

(Please note the quite unreasonable amount of wishful thinking that went into this post...:rolleyes:)

Katarzyna

June 27th, 2004, 2:11 pm

I forgot about that! I don't consider Peter a Marauder ;) . that is why I did not metion him.
That's certainly understandable. :)

Bouncing_Ferret

June 27th, 2004, 2:24 pm

I'm sorry, but I'm still not buying the whole silver hand theory. JKR has had ample oppurtunity to foreshadow this- for example, during the werewolf lesson in PofA- but she hasn't mentioned it at all. I'd like to think that if this silver hand was going to cause something as major as Lupin's death, she'd give us some warning. Just because werewolves are killed by silver (and that's silver bullets, mind) in general mythology, it doesn't follow that they are in JK Rowling's world.

Hm, when you think about it, that's very true. Surely there would have been a reference to silver killing werewolves somewhere in there. Plus, how exactly does Pettigrew expect to kill Lupin with his hand? It isn't like a bullet - can't be fired - or like a knife - can't be...er... plunged - so what exactly is he going to do - give Lupin a smack across the back of his head with it? (The idea of Wormtail delivering a half-decent punch is, in my mind, pretty ridiculous!)

Trinny

June 27th, 2004, 3:39 pm

so what exactly is he going to do - give Lupin a smack across the back of his head with it? (The idea of Wormtail delivering a half-decent punch is, in my mind, pretty ridiculous!)

I'm picturing this... hahahahahaha :rotfl:

loony4moony

June 27th, 2004, 9:00 pm

I'm picturing it too...

NOOO! *leaps in to save Lupin*

I'm sorry. I just couldn't stand to see him get hurt. :lol:

Scarlet Tears

June 27th, 2004, 9:33 pm

I suppose Pettigrew's hand coud kill a werewolf if it somehow penetrated its skin. From what I've read about werewolves, only objects such as silver arrows or bullets are capable of killing one, so it would seem that merely touching silver wouldn't hurt Remus.

:lol: I agree, it is pretty silly to imagine Peter attempting to slap anyone!

Fool

June 27th, 2004, 9:49 pm

Does silver affect a werewolf when they are in human form? I have no idea myself. Every werewolf story you hear involves the death of the werewolf while in wolf form.

Personally I think Lupin's fate has already been tragic enough. And if my reverse order theory holds true (so far the Marauders have died in reverse order as their names appeared on the map), Wormtail would die before him.

RemusLupinFan

June 28th, 2004, 12:07 am

Does silver affect a werewolf when they are in human form?

This is exactly what I have been wondering myself. I could understand how silver bullets/arrows could have a devastating effect on the werewolf while they are transformed, but in human form, would silver be harmless? Perhaps it would be mildly harmful (or in some way not fatal)? The thing that leads me to believe silver may not be harmful to a werewolf in human form is that in OotP there is a mention of the fact that the goblets they are using are solid goblin-wrought silver (I'm not sure if someone has already brought this up or not in an earlier post. If so, I agree with them).

I just couldn't stand to see him get hurt.

I'm with you all the way on that one! :)

idlescribbler

June 28th, 2004, 12:12 am

It would depend on how JK wanted it to work to be honest. Despite numerous assertions, there is no such thing as "set" werewolf lore.

ramones

June 28th, 2004, 12:30 am

I didn't think about the silver hand thing. But I don't think he can kill just by touching Lupin. But the silver hand will have it's uses.
And don't worry, I don't think Lupin will die in the next book.

Silvarius

June 28th, 2004, 1:52 am

I just couldn't stand to see him get hurt. :lol:

Add me to the group! :tu:

But J.K. has mentioned nothing about werewolves and silver, so I believe that the hand won't be able to hurt him. (Unless he gets like smacked in the head with it.) Besides Pettigrew's too much of a wuss to know how to properly hit someone, not like a little tap.

Pig

June 28th, 2004, 4:18 am

Remus is my favorite character, and I really, really hope he is never killed off. I'm hoping that what Dumbledore said to Harry about how he might one day be glad about saving Pettigrew is true. By the way, what happens to Pettigrew's hand when he transforms. Can you imagine a rat draging along a heavy silver paw? He wouldn't be "stealth rat" anymore sneaking around the castle. Click... click... click...

strange magic

June 28th, 2004, 4:50 am

. I just couldn't stand to see him get hurt. :lol:
Me Too! :tu:
I agree with the Reverse order theroy
Go Remmy

Bouncing_Ferret

June 28th, 2004, 5:31 am

By the way, what happens to Pettigrew's hand when he transforms. Can you imagine a rat draging along a heavy silver paw? He wouldn't be "stealth rat" anymore sneaking around the castle. Click... click... click...

:rotfl: Oh, that would be too wonderful!

tonks181

June 28th, 2004, 11:50 am

Can you imagine a rat draging along a heavy silver paw? He wouldn't be "stealth rat" anymore sneaking around the castle. Click... click... click...

badly though it hurts me to say this , think of barty crouch jr.'s transformation into moody. the fake leg falls away during the transformation.
so wormtail's hand would probably act the same way. maybe somebody can nick it when wormy's busy fraternising with his ratty friends? *is very hopeful*

and i love that reverse order theory. but theory or no, i don't think lupin'll die.
i don't want him to. there wouldn't even be a reason for that. if rowling chooses to do that , we'll make her rewrite the thing all over , won't we?

Serenity Wynd

June 28th, 2004, 12:21 pm

"stealth rat" click...click....click....

ha ha ha

Thats going to my 1st fav quote from another student, rofl lol rofl

Trinny

June 28th, 2004, 1:54 pm

HOW TO KILL A WEREWOLF :upset:
There are ways to stop a werewolf:
Any wound that destroys the heart or the brain, such as decapitation, removal of the heart, hanging or any form of death that causes sever damage would kill off the werewolf
Using silver weapons or bullets is very effective in killing werewolves. Silver is a metal has long been considered to have mystical properties such as warding off evil spirits and its appearance in werewolf mythology seems to be after the rise of the catholic church.

HOW TO CLEANSE SOMEONE CURSE OF THE WEREWOLF :elaugh:
Exorcism is of dubious benefit against Werewolves. Use the same precautions as for Vampires. This recipe taken from a german legend :

-Cast a circle of 9 feet, and a smaller one only 4 feet in diameter.
-Place a series of candles at equal intervals, and place a wooden altar in the south. Within the inner circle, place the werewolf
-Build a small fire exactly opposite of the altar, and 1 1/2 foot away from the inner circle.
-Place a pot over the fire, containing 2 pints of clear water. To this add:
1/2 oz. camphor
3/4 oz. ammonia
1/2 oz. hypericum
2 drachms sulfur
1/2 oz castorium
6 drachms opium
3 drachms asafoetida
Mix thoroughly and then add a portion of mandrake root, 1 live snake, 2 live toads in a linen bag, and a fungus.
Bind together with red ribbon a wand of three sprigs, each from ash, white popular, ans birch.
When the toads cry out from being immersed in the now boiling water, the mixture is ready.
Take a cupful of the searing liquid and douse the werewolf, as well as lashing him/her with the wand exclaiming "Foul spirit release this persons' soul, return to the great unknown!" Repeat 3 times." Lather, rinse, repeat.. :p

WATER
Another popular means of protection is water. This can be based upon the relation of lycanthropy and hydrophobia, since a real canid who is affected by this disease fears water. Sweet water baths are then highly recommended.

OTHER CURES
-Draw the Werewolf 3 drops of blood
-A friend of the werewolf gives him three knifes strokes.
-Lop off the werewolf’s ***** :huh:
-Flog the werewolf
-Roll the werewolf in the dew
-Purge the werewolf’s colon and encourage vomiting :scared:
-Some plants and ingredients: Wormwood, Thyme, Acrid vinegar
-Have the Werewolf drink milk and whey for 3 days
-In England, rye, cinder, mistletoe, silver and ash trees are good means of protection and you can get away from a werewolf and be safe by climbing up into such a tree.
-Rub the Werewolf’s nostrils with opium before bed :evil:
-Force the Werewolf to drink salt water
-Blowing the head of a werewolf using an iron rod will free the man from werewolf possession :huh:
-Hit the Werewolf on the head three times with a knife
-Reproach verbally the Werewolf
-Address the Werewolf three times with a Christian name
-Salute the Werewolf with a sign of the cross
-Splash the Werewolf with holy water

strange magic

June 28th, 2004, 3:56 pm

I don't think any of those will work in Harry Potter though. :(

I love the click click Quote.

Snuffles_Lupin

June 28th, 2004, 4:56 pm

-Lop off the werewolf’s *****
Ouch! :scared:

Some of those were pretty funny.

Trinny

June 28th, 2004, 6:20 pm

Somehow I don't see Lupin laughing about that...

Scarlet Tears

June 28th, 2004, 7:13 pm

Originally posted by Pig
Can you imagine a rat draging along a heavy silver paw? He wouldn't be "Stealth Rat" anymore sneaking around the castle. Click... click... click...

:lol: That's the funniest thing I've heard (well, read) all day!
I'd imagine it would be difficult to scurry into small holes and such, too!

I like the reverse-order theory, though. It gives us a little bit of hope *crosses fingers*

Bouncing_Ferret

June 29th, 2004, 4:05 am

-Reproach verbally the Werewolf

Reproacher: "Oh, naughty, naughty, wicked werewolf!"

Lupin: "I'm cured! Huzzah!"

Hm... I hope JK puts that one to the test! :D

Katarzyna

June 29th, 2004, 4:11 am

Reproacher: "Oh, naughty, naughty, wicked werewolf!"
:tu: :rotfl:

I would comment further, but this is a family-friendly message board. :eyebrows:

Bouncing_Ferret

June 29th, 2004, 4:16 am

I would comment further, but this is a family-friendly message board. :eyebrows:

Are you insinuating that I was insinuating... er... something? Never! :angel:

Actually, that's what my mum says to the dog if it's being bad. :blush: Pretty sad really, eh?

I'm not sure what sort of person would volunteer to reproach a werewolf in his state of wolfiness though... I suppose Draco's quite experienced in insulting magical creatures - why don't we just shove him in front of Lupin and see what happens? :D

Katarzyna

June 29th, 2004, 4:26 am

Are you insinuating that I was insinuating... er... something? Never! :angel:
Whot? Moi? :angel: I would *cough* never *cough* ever!

Ahem.

I'm not sure what sort of person would volunteer to reproach a werewolf in his state of wolfiness though...
Well, there's Sirius and Hermione, at least in the PoA movie. Ok, so they didn't reproach so much as approach, but still!

And I think Snape probably tried at one point... but I think those thoughts are better left to fanfiction.

I suppose Draco's quite experienced in insulting magical creatures - why don't we just shove him in front of Lupin and see what happens? :D
Heh... I love that idea! As long as Mr. Lupin still gets to shred Peter Pettigrew to pieces.

Snuffles_Lupin

June 29th, 2004, 4:31 pm

I'm not sure what sort of person would volunteer to reproach a werewolf in his state of wolfiness though... I suppose Draco's quite experienced in insulting magical creatures - why don't we just shove him in front of Lupin and see what happens?

That is a GREAT idea!! Oh I can just picture it...... :elaugh:

Trinny

June 29th, 2004, 7:14 pm

What do we know about Lupins family? He's half-blood right? Can he be the Prince in book 6?

RemusLupinFan

June 29th, 2004, 7:20 pm

That's an interesting idea...we only know for sure that the Prince isn't Harry or Voldemort, and we really can't rule anything out. It's possible, but somehow I don't think he's the one they're talking about. Lupin doesn't seem the princely type, especially because he's not very well-to-do. It would be cool if he was the Prince though.

This is a very interesting line of speculation. My guess is that the prince is someone we haven't met yet, or someone who's only been mentioned briefly. But I could be wrong of course.

ramones

June 29th, 2004, 10:56 pm

badly though it hurts me to say this , think of barty crouch jr.'s transformation into moody. the fake leg falls away during the transformation.
so wormtail's hand would probably act the same way. maybe somebody can nick it when wormy's busy fraternising with his ratty friends? *is very hopeful*

Barty Crouch had both legs, but when he transformed into Mad Eye he assumed his form, meaning he only had one leg.
Wormtail will always have one hand, unless he uses to Poly whatever Juice.

Lupin his half-blood. You never know, he could be the half-blood prince.

Can anyone think of a way Lupin can use his transformations to help the Order?

RemusLupinFan

June 29th, 2004, 11:02 pm

Can anyone think of a way Lupin can use his transformations to help the Order?
Not unless it involves attacking Death Eaters in his werewolf form, and that's something I think he'd feel guilty about the morning after.

But now that's got me thinking...

Katarzyna

June 29th, 2004, 11:06 pm

Not unless it involves attacking Death Eaters in his werewolf form, and that's something I think he'd feel guilty about the morning after.
I wonder. What if he had taken the wolfsbane potion, and was needed to defend someone (e.g. Harry) while he was in his werewolf form. I think Lupin would use whatever means necessary to fight off the attackers--whether his wand and magic when he's in human form, or claws and teeth when he's in wolf form.

ragga

June 29th, 2004, 11:10 pm

can i ask but is lupin a pure blood?

RemusLupinFan

June 29th, 2004, 11:14 pm

I wonder. What if he had taken the wolfsbane potion, and was needed to defend someone (e.g. Harry) while he was in his werewolf form. I think Lupin would use whatever means necessary to fight off the attackers--whether his wand and magic when he's in human form, or claws and teeth when he's in wolf form.
I think what you're suggesting could work. I mean, he would have his mind and know only to attack Death Eaters. And he would know not to bite anyone in case the werewolf curse can still be passed on to someone even though he's under the influence of Wolfsbane. I think Moony would be a pretty strong defense against Voldemort since nearly everyone would be afraid of a werewolf (and they need not know he's taken the Wolfsbane:evil:).

ramones

June 29th, 2004, 11:20 pm

When he takes to potion, he still becomes a werewolf, but he has control over his actions, right?
I guess he could still protect Harry, but I wonder if being a werewolf will somehow be an advantage (relatively speaking).

Ragga
He's half-blood. Joanne said that somewhere (I don't know where though :sad: )

Tane I sure Snape or someone else will make the potion.

M00ny

June 30th, 2004, 12:43 am

Sorry, but i just had a thought about the half- blood prince theory. I heard that Harry nor Lord Voldemort was the half- blood prince... don't take my word for it though it was just a rumor i heard. So Lupin is a possible candidate for being the half- blood prince.

Also, being the hard- core Lupin- shipper that i am I heard that there is a connection to Lupin's first name, Remus, that suggests that he might be killed later on in the series... I was thinking that this might have a connection with the half- blood prince thing. You have to wonder what exactly is the half- blood prince the prince of? ^_^

Katarzyna

June 30th, 2004, 1:08 am

:welcome: M00ny, fellow Lupin L00ny. (Ok, that was bad, sorry... but :welcome: anyway! :))

Sorry, but i just had a thought about the half- blood prince theory. I heard that Harry nor Lord Voldemort was the half- blood prince... don't take my word for it though it was just a rumor i heard. So Lupin is a possible candidate for being the half- blood prince.
You're very right--JKR did indeed say that neither Harry nor Voldemort was the HBP, and Moony is a candidate. I'm not sure, but I like the idea, because I like everything that features Lupin, and Lupin does have incredible manners, those I'd expect a very high-class or royal person to have. Er, well, manners I'd hope a royal person would possess and use on a regular basis.

Also, being the hard- core Lupin- shipper that i am
:eyebrows: Who do you 'ship him with? Or do you mean you're a big fan?

I heard that there is a connection to Lupin's first name, Remus, that suggests that he might be killed later on in the series...
JKR has confirmed that Remus does not have a twin... lemme find it... ah ha, here it is (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/rumours_view.cfm?id=9).

I was thinking that this might have a connection with the half- blood prince thing. You have to wonder what exactly is the half- blood prince the prince of? ^_^
Yes... now that you mention it, Remus and Romulus were royalty, weren't they? Our dear Lupin already has a princely name.

Hmmmmm... excellent post!

Scarlet Tears

June 30th, 2004, 2:29 am

Originally posted by Ramones
When he takes to potion, he still becomes a werewolf, but he has control over his actions, right?

Yes, you're right. On page 352 of the US paperback version of the Prisoner of Azkaban, Lupin says, "The potion that Porfessor Snape has been making for me is a very recent discovery. It makes me safe, you see. As long as I take it in the week proceeding the full moon, I keep my mind when I transform...I am able to curl up in my office, a harmless wolf, and wait for the moon to wane again."

I'm glad Remus doesn't have to suffer so badly each month as long as he takes his potion. Poor guy...

Katarzyna

June 30th, 2004, 2:40 am

I'm glad Remus doesn't have to suffer so badly each month as long as he takes his potion. Poor guy...
Yeah, poor Remus. :sad:

Unfortunately, it seems as though he still suffers from his transformations. Even when he's taking the Wolfsbane potion, he appears exhausted and aging and ill many times throughout books 3 and 5.

I'm hoping someone develops a better potion for Lupin to take. Perhaps Snape can team up with Neville and come up with something that will make the transformations truly bearable.

Bouncing_Ferret

June 30th, 2004, 4:26 am

As far as Lupin being the HBP... I'm not too sure on this one. I think there would be a few more hints in the first 5 books if Lupin was the HBP, and so far the only real evidence we've got is that he's a half blood of sorts. Also, I'm not sure who he might have inherited his royal status from exactly - so far there hasn't been any suggestion that his parents were anything out of the ordinary, and as far as we know, werewolves don't have any kind of organised monarchy.

Then again, Lupin's story does bear some resemblance to stories of fairy tale princes and so forth - like when all those horrid, smarmy witches put curses on baby heirs etc, Lupin got bitten by a werewolf when he was... what was it... only one year old? I forget at the moment. But anyway. That's the sort of thing that happens to princes isn't it? They get cursed, and then the curse has to broken later in life by true love or... er... Snape's potions...

I love my theories! They're so... well... bad! :D

Classical_Wizar

June 30th, 2004, 4:29 am

i thought it was when he was eight or nine

Bouncing_Ferret

June 30th, 2004, 5:02 am

i thought it was when he was eight or nine

You could certainly be right, I've not got the book here, so I could be making basically everything up.

EDIT: I went and found the quote (it was hard work, I can tell you!): 'I was a very small boy when I received the bite'.

Make of it what you will, but to me that suggests that he was at least under five years old.

theotherlisa

June 30th, 2004, 6:57 am

... so what exactly is he going to do - give Lupin a smack across the back of his head with it? (The idea of Wormtail delivering a half-decent punch is, in my mind, pretty ridiculous!)

My version of the scene goes like this
********************
Pettigrew: Moony could you come a little closer?

Lupin: Don't ever refer to me as Moony ever again. You lost that privilege when you betrayed James and Lily!

Pettigrew: All right Remus, would please come a little closer??

Lupin: Well since you asked nicely....

Pettigrew: That's great thanks. Now can you bend down just a bit. Just have your neck where I can reach it.

Lupin: Oh, fine whatever scumbag!

Pettigrew slowly lifts his uber-heavy silver arm and brings it crashing down on Lupin neck. Lupin straightens up and rubs his neck.

Lupin: Jeez Peter, can't even throw a judo chop right! You're bloody useless.

Pettigrew: Oh crud, I'm in trouble with the Dark Lord now...(as he slinks away, defeated).

Lupin (yells): Next time you want to try and kill me, bring your friends with you! Loser!
***********
:lol:
That was my attempt at lame humor. Anyway Hello, I'm new to this thread. My thoughts on Lupin:
I thought he was very one-dimensional in the books (*dodges rotten fruit/veg) but when I saw the portrayal of him by Mr. Thewlis it brought a whole new light to his character. I've since re-read PoA and have a whole new respect for Prof. RJ Lupin. I can read more into the character than I was able to before and it puts the book in a different light. I can now count myself among the ranks of the Lupin lovers.
Lisa

Bouncing_Ferret

June 30th, 2004, 8:57 am

Pettigrew: That's great thanks. Now can you bend down just a bit. Just have your neck where I can reach it.

Lupin: Oh, fine whatever scumbag!

Pettigrew slowly lifts his uber-heavy silver arm and brings it crashing down on Lupin neck. Lupin straightens up and rubs his neck.

Lupin: Jeez Peter, can't even throw a judo chop right! You're bloody useless.

:rotfl: Ah, charming! Poor Wormtail, he really is a first class tosser, isn't he?

Anyways, :welcome: to the fold, Lisa! We need all the Moony worshippers we can get! :D

Classical_Wizar

June 30th, 2004, 9:04 am

EDIT: I went and found the quote (it was hard work, I can tell you!): 'I was a very small boy when I received the bite'. Make of it what you will, but to me that suggests that he was at least under five years old. yeah i looked it up and just didnt change my previous quote. You could be right but imagine his poor parents having to lock up their child once a month for being a very bad boy.

Bouncing_Ferret

June 30th, 2004, 9:21 am

You could be right but imagine his poor parents having to lock up their child once a month for being a very bad boy.

You're right, it'd be awfully difficult to explain to a young boy that he had to spend every (very painful) full moon away from his parents. I suppose if Lupin had been a werewolf since he was very, very young, then it would just be... well... life. I'm sure his parents were supportive of his condition, but there wouldn't have been very much they could do about it. Makes for a pretty horrid childhood.

Trinny

June 30th, 2004, 9:51 am

Yes... now that you mention it, Remus and Romulus were royalty, weren't they? Our dear Lupin already has a princely name.

Here's the myth of Remus and Romulus:

Remus and Romulus were sons of the god of War, Mars and his wife, Rhea Silvia. Amulius (King of Alba Longa) feared the sons would overthrow him, so ordered a slave to toss the twins into the Tiber River. The slave left the cradle in order to give them a chance to live. They were set ashore under a fig tree and found by a she-wolf and a woodpecker. These two animals were sacred to Mars. The she-wolf and the woodpecker nursed them. A herds-man, named Faustulus, finds them and brings them home to his wife, who helps to take care of them. They called them Remus and Romulus.

The two boys grew up and became shepards. One day, Remus had an argument with one of Numitor's (brother of Amulius) shepards. Remus got arrested and was sent to Numitor. When Numitor heard Remus's story, he realised that the twins were his grandsons.

Remus and Romulus lived with their grandfather in Alba Longa, but they missed being in the countryside. They decided to head back to where Faustulus found them (by the shores of the river). They decided to build a city but could not agree on a location. Romulus wanted to build it on Palatine Hill and Remus wanted to bult the city on Capitoline Hill. The signs of the heavens predicted that each brother would build a city, but Romulus' city will be larger. They argued and ended up building two cities.

The fighting did not stop there. Romulus finished building his city on April 21, 753 BC. Remus was upset that Romulus finished his city first. He climbed over the wall and Romulus killed Remus. Romulus' city became the new settlement and Romulus named his city after himself, Rome.

A few other sources say Remus was killed because Remus teased Romulus about the height of the city walls. He told them that they were too low. They had a fight and Romulus killed Remus.

Bouncing_Ferret

June 30th, 2004, 11:02 am

Trinny

June 30th, 2004, 11:49 am

Remus frankly sounds like a bit of a snot, doesn't he? :D

Therefore I'm going to continue in my assumption that Remus Lupin bears absolutely no connection to the original. Anyway, as well as JK having already said that Remus doesn't have a twin, I doubt she'd be as unoriginal as to call a character Remus and then draw on the whole founding of Rome story.

No, I think you're right. His name probably came from the whole 'raised as a wolf' thingy.
The reason I posted it was because of the whole debate about him being the half-blood prince. The original Remus was royalty, so maybe he is...

gottaloveLupin

June 30th, 2004, 3:07 pm

TRINNY
where did you get all that information about how to kill a wolf from?
Does JKR say anything about werewolves in Magical Creatures?

I can't stand the idea of Moony dieing.It would be too horrible.

ragga

June 30th, 2004, 3:13 pm

i used to think that lupin would be killed by peter...the whole warewolves can be killed by silver thing, as we know peter has a silver or something along those lines...

can i ask but has this been proving to be wrong or anything?....

and from my small sig you acn see im routing for lupin to be the HBP even though it is most likely impossable...

Trinny

June 30th, 2004, 3:18 pm

TRINNY
where did you get all that information about how to kill a wolf from?
Does JKR say anything about werewolves in Magical Creatures?

I know this because I'm really a werewolf hunter by profession! :evil:
No, of course I'm not. I got the info from different sites on the internet. You'd be surprised to know how much weird stuff is really out there. :scared:

Katarzyna

June 30th, 2004, 3:18 pm

i used to think that lupin would be killed by peter...the whole warewolves can be killed by silver thing, as we know peter has a silver or something along those lines...

can i ask but has this been proving to be wrong or anything?....
It hasn't been proven either way. We don't even know whether werewolves in the HP universe are harmed by silver.

gottaloveLupin

June 30th, 2004, 3:22 pm

lupinsgurl

June 30th, 2004, 3:26 pm

Everybody's gotta love Lupin. I mean, he's so nice and kind. Not to mention that he's a werewolf. That's gotta be cool. And it doesn't hurt that David Thewlis makes a great Lupin (he's hot! :cool: )!

gottaloveLupin

June 30th, 2004, 3:28 pm

It seems that there are more and more Lupin fans on this board every day.
I like this!

RemusLupinFan

June 30th, 2004, 3:38 pm

Actually I think it wouldn't be a good idea.
I think that if Hagrid or Lupin turns out to be the HBP, then they will die.
Making them the HBP, a very important character in book6 would mean to make them play a big role in book7 too.
you can't have a character who is important and loved but not highly important suddenly becoming extremely significant in book6 and in the last book not having him at all or having very little of him.
And I don't think that JKR will make Hagrid or Lupin to play a big role in both book 6 and 7.
This is why I wish Lupin won't be the HBP.
I want to see him in book6 much more than in book 5 and I want JKR to tell us more about him and to make him get much closer to Harry, but I want Lupin to play a huge role in book 7 and survive .
Yes I agree with you there. I know I saw somewhere that Lupin would be playing a big role in book 7 (this may have been said in a JK interview, or it may have just been a rumor. In any case, I'll try to find a link at some point). If that's the case, and Lupin plays a big part in book 7 but not book 6, he probably isn't the HBP. Which is probably just as good.

On a totally different note, I just thought of something. Earlier on in this thread someone asked for any ideas as to how Lupin's being a werewolf could help the Order. I think it would help if he were to try to recruit the werewolves to fight for Dumbledore (sorry if this has been mentioned before...I'm not sure if it has been). I just hope that Lupin has more success in it than Hagrid had with the giants.

It seems that there are more and more Lupin fans on this board every day.I like this!
We should have an official fan club...something to put in our signatures that would show we belong to a Lupin fan club!

Hogwarts Lake

June 30th, 2004, 3:38 pm

I don't know...I don't think Lupin is the HBP whoever is though is probably very important to the plot...I think it maybe Godric Gryffindor or someone else but not Lupin I mean all that we know about him is that he is half-blood and JK told us that in some chat are there really any clues about this in the books?

ragga

June 30th, 2004, 3:40 pm

It seems that there are more and more Lupin fans on this board every day.
I like this!

lupin rocks my stripy socks

actualy sorry he is my second favourite but since sirius passed on he is my new fav

Silvarius

June 30th, 2004, 3:51 pm

How about the Remus Lupin Appreciation Society? Just a thought.

I'm kind of hoping he is the HBP, but in a way i'm hoping he's not. Confusing? If he is the HBP, doesn't mean he's going to die. He's still got the big role to play in book 7. Maybe when J.K. said he would have a big role in book 7, she meant book 6? You never know.

Scarlet Tears

June 30th, 2004, 6:20 pm

Originally posted by RemusLupinFan
We should have an official fan club...something to put in our signatures that would show we belong to a Lupin fan club!

About a year ago my friend Aeterna Kai made up the Big Squishy Group Hugs for Lupin Society as sort of a fan club for Remus, and everyone who joined got to squish into our enormous group hug!

Cat also made up the Cod Squad, where everyone who joined promised that if Lupin was killed, we would all hunt down J.K. Rowling and slap her with cod fish! I think I still have both of them listed in my profile, even though we haven't talked about that in a long time.

Katarzyna

June 30th, 2004, 6:32 pm

Cat also made up the Cod Squad, where everyone who joined promised that if Lupin was killed, we would all hunt down J.K. Rowling and slap her with cod fish! I think I still have both of them listed in my profile, even though we haven't talked about that in a long time.
Oh, that's where that came from. I've heard of the Cod Squad, but couldn't make the connection between fish and Remus Lupin.

Artanis

June 30th, 2004, 6:58 pm

It seems that there are more and more Lupin fans on this board every day.
I like this!

Obsessing over Remus Lupin is a perfectly legitimate occupation - as I think we all agree. ;) The more the merrier! Welcome to the fold lupinsgurl!! :welcome:

We should have an official fan club...something to put in our signatures that would show we belong to a Lupin fan club!

A Lupin fan club...where can I sign up???

lupin rocks my stripy socks

Well, if I were wearing socks, he'd rock them too. :lol: He just...rocks my world, period. Along with quite a few others who are unrelated to HP. ;) Heck, I saw PoA for the 3rd time last night and - I kid you not - I went to bed dreaming about him.

Cheers!

~Artanis :cool:

Snuffles_Lupin

June 30th, 2004, 7:16 pm

Heck, I saw PoA for the 3rd time last night and - I kid you not - I went to bed dreaming about him.
Hehe, I'm glad I'm not the only one who's seen it three times already. Unfortunatley my dreams were not as good. :sad:

Lilawen_Lupin

June 30th, 2004, 7:26 pm

it would be awesome if Lupin was the HBP. We don't really know a whole lot about him. He seems as if he has some secrets. But then again someone said well what if he would die? I don't think JK would have such a cold heart as to kill Remus.

ragga

June 30th, 2004, 7:38 pm

i dont really think lupin will die or at least soon....

i remember reading a post by someone and sorry if your them and i havent quoted
but they pointed out that the order on the map goes.... moony,wormtail,padfoot and prongs....and starting from the end you can trace who dies...prongs went first then padfoot and if it keeps going in this order wormtail will be first...

but hey there might not even be anything in that..but ohh well we can hope...

Trinny

June 30th, 2004, 9:41 pm

Well there is a Russian fairytale about a wolf that is capable of devouring a person whole, which is actually called wolf blood prince. In the PoA film, Snape showed a slide show and on there was a picture of a werewolf devouring a man whole, so perhaps that is a relevant hint to the Russian fairytale and the wolf blood prince.

Can you tell us more about this tale? I've tried looking it up, but the closest I came was a fictional story called The Dream Stealer by Gregory Maguire. This is what amazon.com says about it: Once every generation or so, a great wolf called the Blood Prince stalks the northern forests of Russia. The wolf's evil runs so deep that he steals not only bodies but also souls, and rumor has it that he has set his sights on the forgettable little village of Miersk. The frightened villagers do their best to pretend there is no Blood Prince -- that is, except for Pasha and Lisette. But what can two children do to stop such a beast?
I got the impression that it's just made-up and not a real folktale, but I might be wrong.

strange magic

July 1st, 2004, 12:01 am

JK said Remmy gets a Major role in book seven.
Maybe in the end of book six they find out he is the HBP and that is how he gets the major role in book seven.

theotherlisa

July 1st, 2004, 2:21 am

Obsessing over Remus Lupin is a perfectly legitimate occupation - as I think we all agree. ;) The more the merrier! Welcome to the fold lupinsgurl!! :welcome:

~Artanis :cool:

Now, if we could only manage to get paid for our new found occupation. lol.

When I read the new title for book 6, the first thing I did was email my friend and predict it was going to be Lupin. He has so far, not returned my email so I don't know who is guess will be. I can't think of anyone else in the WW that would qualify for HBP and perhaps it's too far into the story to introduce another major character. However, it's not impossible for JKR to do so.
Perhaps Remus' shabbiness is self-imposed? Maybe he's trying to hide who he is in more ways than one. It seems that his family may have had $$ if they continually searched for a cure for his werewolf-ness. I'm not saying that because they may have been rich that means his family is royalty in anyway but I don't think it can be ruled out.

Katarzyna

July 1st, 2004, 2:55 am

Perhaps Remus' shabbiness is self-imposed? Maybe he's trying to hide who he is in more ways than one.
That's very interesting--I hadn't thought of that at all!

It doesn't quite fit with Lupin's rant to Sirius about Umbridge making it impossible for werewolves to find jobs. On the other hand, perhaps that's just because Remus enjoys working (he really seems to love being a teacher), or he's angry for all the other werewolves who can't find jobs out there.

Cat

July 1st, 2004, 2:58 am

Cat also made up the Cod Squad, where everyone who joined promised that if Lupin was killed, we would all hunt down J.K. Rowling and slap her with cod fish! I think I still have both of them listed in my profile, even though we haven't talked about that in a long time.

Yes, and now it has become a force totally beyond my control.

I hope for Jo's sake that they're little cod.

Wasn't the Professor Lupin character a weretrout in the Barry Trotter books? Fishier and fishier...

In case I'm drifting from the bay of topic, I'll finish by saying Lupin = yay.

Scarlet Tears

July 1st, 2004, 5:57 am

Originally posted by Cat
Yes, and now it has become a force totally beyond my control.

:elaugh:

Originally Posted by Tane
From Publishers Weekly

Book Description
Once every generation or so, a great wolf called the Blood Prince, who not only devours bodies but also steals souls, stalks the northern forests of Russia. Rumor has it that he has set his sights on the forgettable little village of Miersk. The wolf"s evil runs so deep that past survivors refuse to believe in him, and so it is up to the newest generation, two children named Pasha and Lisette, to save the village. But how can a young boy and girl stop such a beast? This mesmerizing tale draws on Russian folk stories about Vasilissa the Beautiful, Baba Yaga, and the Firebird and is filled with quirky details and memorable characters that could spring only from the imagination of Gregory Maguire. This new edition includes a prologue and is illustrated with striking cut-paper silhouettes.

Now that is an eerie coincidence, though I can't imagine Lupin being evil. If it really is based on a Russian folktale, then it is very plausible that J.K. Rowling might have been inspired by it, since she tends to use mythology in the series. Perhaps the Blood Wolf in the legend has some relation to the werewolf who bit him.

gottaloveLupin

July 1st, 2004, 1:00 pm

I don't think that Prince means royalty.
I think that by Prince JKR understands a person with hight qualities, above the others, a leader.

It can very well be Remus. If Lupin being the Prince doesn't mean he will die in book 6, then I definitely want Lupin to be the HBP.

Katarzyna

July 1st, 2004, 1:15 pm

I don't think that Prince means royalty.
I think that by Prince JKR understands a person with hight qualities, above the others, a leader.
I'm inclined to agree with you, but HP history would suggest otherwise. The titles have all refered to real, tangible things--there really was a Philosopher's Stone as well as a Philosopher, a Chamber of Secrets, A Prisoner from Azkaban (an escapee, really), a Goblet of Fire, and a real Order of the Phoenix as well as a real Phoenix. That indicates to me that the prince refered to here is really a prince--not just someone who has the quality of a prince.

It can very well be Remus. If Lupin being the Prince doesn't mean he will die in book 6, then I definitely want Lupin to be the HBP.
Since JKR told us Remus will play a major role in book 7, I don't think he'll die in book 6. :)

sheilajsn

July 1st, 2004, 3:18 pm

About a year ago my friend Aeterna Kai made up the Big Squishy Group Hugs for Lupin Society as sort of a fan club for Remus, and everyone who joined got to squish into our enormous group hug!

Cat also made up the Cod Squad, where everyone who joined promised that if Lupin was killed, we would all hunt down J.K. Rowling and slap her with cod fish! I think I still have both of them listed in my profile, even though we haven't talked about that in a long time.

Count me in! If she kills him I swear I’ll go ballistic.

GryffindorSeeker

July 1st, 2004, 4:09 pm

So will I! He's become one of my favorite characters! But then, I was already a member of the Cod Squad, but still. If she kills him, I'll cry before I go running around, ranting!

RemusLupinFan

July 1st, 2004, 4:14 pm

Me too. Count me into the Cod Squad (what an odd, but cool idea :p) and the Big Squishy Group Hugs for Lupin Society.

urquhartfay

July 1st, 2004, 10:16 pm

IYes I agree with you there. I know I saw somewhere that Lupin would be playing a big role in book 7 (this may have been said in a JK interview, or it may have just been a rumor. In any case, I'll try to find a link at some point). If that's the case, and Lupin plays a big part in book 7 but not book 6, he probably isn't the HBP. Which is probably just as good.

oohh, where did you read that? anyone know? i'd really like some reassurance that remus won't die in book 6 (preferably that he won't die at all, until after he's married and has had kids and grandkids and reaches a ripe old age...)

I think Moony will kill Wormtail though as well, I don't want all the maurders to die and apparently worms are more active during the full moon cycle. So I think the little worm might end up battling Lupin and die or take sides some how though in PoA Lupin was not going to take Wormtail back to Hogwarts alive.

i don't think remus would kill even peter. yes, he would have in the shrieking shack, but he was in shock because of the whole situation. i don't think he's a murderer. if they are in battle and he has no choice, yes. but i prefer the idea of hp, because of his bond with peter (having saved him) forcing peter to save remus' life.

urquhartfay

July 1st, 2004, 10:21 pm

i would love to join the cod squad by the way. i would be really really mad if she did that. i was furious enough when sirius died...

werewolves useful funny you should say that... i've been dreaming up/starting to write a fanfic in which a potion has been found - an alternative to wolfsbane - in which the person's body transforms as usual but they retain their own mind, thus enableing an army of wizard/werewolves with the powers of both to come to dd's aid. (the inventor of this potion is, of course, remus' long lost love and lily's best friend from hogwarts whom he of course eventually marries and with whom he lives happily ever after with their kids and grandkids, but we won't get into that just yet....) :eyebrows: