Voldemort's Weapon

[jenhuc07]

In the begining of OoTP we hear about Voldemort's new weapon that he did not have last time he was in full power. What is this weapon? Was it the prophecy or Harry?

[Blossom]

I think it was the prophecy but i don't see why that would have been such a great help.

[coolalien312]

Im pretty sure that it was the prophecy, because I dont think that he knew Harry could go into his mind or whatever until he has the dream with the snake... but the prophecy was the weapon cause if he knew how to kill Harry then his plans would probably work, since the only time when his plans didnt work was when harry was born...

[hugejon]

Yeah it was the prophecy, remember that noone knew the whole prophecy but Dumbledore, except that Voldemort found out a part of the prophecy (cause someone overheard part of it. and the part Voldemort heard lead him to believe that the rest of the prophecy might tell him how to avoid the begining part coming true.

[noxerised]

ya, b/c Voldemort thought he had the power, since he heard the prophecy, he didn't hear the whole thing, b/c his spy was impatient...and not knowing that the rest of the prophecy would describe his undoing...

[SupFiggy]

ohh.... I thought it would be something to conquer death and maybe in the end the Order would steal it and bring Sirius back to life, but whatever...

[ErickGama]

In the fifth book it says so. The Prophecy is the weapon to kill Harry.

[Duckboy]

Dude, Voldemort's weapon is without a doubt, the star rod from Kirby.

[Mopsus]

Lol- are you suggesting Voldemort is actually a small, pink cushion-like being who likes to collect stars and ride on the back of fish and other animals? (Though Peter Pettigrew certainly fits into that category!)

[HarryPotter]

I think it was the Prophecy...

[Fool]

I've always wondered who the eavesdropper was.

[Aramina]

ya, b/c Voldemort thought he had the power, since he heard the prophecy, he didn't hear the whole thing, b/c his spy was impatient...and not knowing that the rest of the prophecy would describe his undoing...

The spy wasn't impatient; he got caught by Dumbledore (I believe it was DD, anyway). And to the person who wonders a bit farther down the thread who the spy was, I think the general consensus is that it was Mundungus Fletcher.

[grawp66]

I'm pretty sure it the weapon was the prophecy. Voldemort might think it'll help him if he finds out what the rest of it says. . . after all, he only heard part.

Fool, I wonder the same thing. You think we'll find out?

Armina - No, the spy was caught by the barman . . . That's why alot of people beleive it was Mundungus, because he was banned from the Hog's Head and the barman "has a very long memory."

[Fool]

I'm not sure it was Mundungus. That doesn't make a great deal of sense, considering Mundungus is friends with Dumbledore, and clearly the eavesdropper ran straight off to Voldemort after he was caught listening.

Of course there's a fairly long timeframe between the prophecy and the attack on Harry. He had not yet been born when it was made, and the attack came 3 months later (Halloween right?). So perhaps the eavesdropper was just a gossip, and completely unimportant.

[grawp66]

I'm not sure it was Mundungus. That doesn't make a great deal of sense, considering Mundungus is friends with Dumbledore, and clearly the eavesdropper ran straight off to Voldemort after he was caught listening.

Of course there's a fairly long timeframe between the prophecy and the attack on Harry. He had not yet been born when it was made, and the attack came 3 months later (Halloween right?). So perhaps the eavesdropper was just a gossip, and completely unimportant.

I don't think it's Mundungus either . . .it's just a rumor i heard on severel other sites. All I was saying is that the guy who caught the spy was the barman, not DD.

[Aramina]

I'm not sure it was Mundungus. That doesn't make a great deal of sense, considering Mundungus is friends with Dumbledore, and clearly the eavesdropper ran straight off to Voldemort after he was caught listening.

Of course there's a fairly long timeframe between the prophecy and the attack on Harry. He had not yet been born when it was made, and the attack came 3 months later (Halloween right?). So perhaps the eavesdropper was just a gossip, and completely unimportant.

Nobody's sure it's Mundungus, but it's been speculated. After all, he was in the Hogshead (or whatever it is), but he was disguised as a witch. Doesn't that seem a bit funny if he doesn't really have a reason to not be recognized?

Anyway, the attack came a year and three months after Harry's birth, not 3 months. But since you said there was a fairly long timeframe, I'll assume you just slipped up and forgot to put 1 year in front of the 3 months. :D And I got the feeling the eavesdropper was rather unimportant too.

[Fool]

Well there could be any number of reasons why Mundungus isn't allowed to be in the Hogshead.

I said 3 months because I assumed Voldemort wouldn't wait a year to attack Harry. There's also the fact that 1 year, 3 months is walking/toddler age, and not really infant age. But I guess I'm wrong.

[Duckboy]

I was thinking. Voldemort's weapon. What if it really doesn't have anything to do with Magic at all? Voldemort obviously is the type of person that would go to any lengths to destroy his obsticles. So what am I proposing COULD be his weapon? Well, this actually hit me a little bit after reading about this "weapon", and that would be, a muggle weapon. Not just any muggle weapon, but a gun, or maybe even a nuclear device? Magic can only protect against so much, and I'm not sure it can protect against many of the weapons used by the Muggles. The nuclear bomb being the biggest. Just a thought. Voldemort could use all sorts of guns and weaponry that the wizarding world never dream of using, and all of these weapons can wipe out mass amounts of people in seconds.

[ramones]

Sure, Voledemort could be using a muggle weapon, like a bomb or something. But I don't think it is, because......

1)LV hates Muggles and I don't think he would use one of the weapons.
2)This is a story about magic, I don't think that JK will bring in muggle weapons.
3)Considering the whole Iraq weapons of mass destruction going on, I think it would be a bit corny if she included something like that in the story.

Is the prophecy his weapon? I'm not sure, I really don't think that that info was really that important.

[Mopsus]

I agree with Ramones on the Weapons of Mass Destruction thing. Besides, I assume he would want to bomb Hogwarts, or wherever Dumbledore is residing, to smithereens- but it's mentioned somewhere that Muggle technology goes completely haywire at Hogwarts (and presumably also at other magical places), so for all we know a nuclear bomb is automatically transfigured into a giant jellyfish or something.

[rednow]

but the thing is that i don't get why would it be the prophecy. Maybe it's just too early over here (4am) but doesn't the prophecy say that either Harry or Nevill will be able to kill Voldemort?

[Mopsus]

Rednow, 4 am is never a good time to discuss the fundamentals of Harry Potter :rotfl:

Anyway, the Prophecy says that either Harry must kill Voldemort, or Voldemort must kill Harry, "for neither can live while the other survives". So, while the prophecy is not exactly a weapon in the deadly-jinxes kind of sense, it was Voldemort's purpose to know what the full prophecy was and, had he learned it, he would have known beyond all doubt that he is to kill Harry to survive.

[Sturgis Podmore]

nah i dont thing it was good old dung that told LV, does anyone know of any clues given coz i havnt come across any when reading the books, but i dont think it was dung!
and the weapon was most certainly the prophecy. There is no talk of another weapon throughout the 5th book! and Lv needs to know the rest of the prophecy dosnt he!!
Harry could have been "A" weapon but not "the" weapon because harry was the way LV atempted to get to the prophecy!

[saz]

I always just assumed that maybe the weapon was something that he could get once he heard the phoercy, but that a really dumb theory. I also got the feeling that Harrys heart would have something to do with it.

[wayne62682]

No, I agree that it's the Prophecy itself. I guess the idea behind it would be that Voldemort would know exactly what was destined to happen (in this case, Harry has to kill him, or he needs to kill Harry) and would in effect know what the future would be. Knowing that he HAS to kill Harry if he wants to succeed in his plan, he can prepare accordingly. That's how I see it :)

[Sturgis Podmore]

yeah, LV need to know exactley how to kill Harry without hurting himself like before!!
does it say in the prophecy how they can only kill each other i cant remember!!! :shrug:

[Mopsus]

The Prophecy does not mention how either of them is to kill the other; it speaks of a child that will be born when the mony of July is near it's end, and whose parents have thrice defied Voldemort. I figured that Voldemort will [once again] attempt to Harry in the less messy and complicated way possible: Avada Kedavra. But before he can get to Harry, he'll probably have to think of some elaborate plan like in the Goblet of Fire & the Order of the Phoenix.

[Sturgis Podmore]

yeah but this time i think dumbledore and harry will be more prepared for this as harry now knows allot more than he did before. A very elaborate plan may work though. I wonder how LV is goin to do this?

[Weasleytwin]

I assumed it was the prophecy and that Voldemort thought it would tell him how to kill Harry. I wonder how much of the prophecy Dumbledore told to the rest of the Order? Do you think they all know that Harry either has to kill LV or be killed by him?

Here's the quote when Dumbledore tells Harry what the weapon is:
'And so, since his return to his body, and particularly since your extraordinary escape from him last year, he has been determined to hear that prophecy in its entirety. This is the weapon he has been seeking so assiduously since his return: the knowledge of how to destroy you.' (OotP, Bloomsbury, 740)

[offca]

I assumed it was the prophecy and that Voldemort thought it would tell him how to kill Harry. I wonder how much of the prophecy Dumbledore told to the rest of the Order? Do you think they all know that Harry either has to kill LV or be killed by him?

that's what I also think.
I guess DD said only minimum - that LV wants the prophecy (they know what is in DoM- at least a little bit), and that Harry is extremly important. I am sure he hasn't told them the exact wording of it., too dangerous.

[Barbara Kennedy]

These threads all discuss the weapon in the Prophecy.

Would it matter if Voldemort had heard the Prophecy? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=27164)
The Prophecy: It’s Impact, Meaning and Importance (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=20643)

[Elixir09]

the weapon was the knowledge on how to kill harry
I wonder who overheard the prophecy...maybe just maybe it was mundungus fletcher because he was banned from the hog's head

[Barbara Kennedy]

Who overheard the Prophecy? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=11367)

Check this one.

[RadicaL]

Well we know Voldemort's weapon is Harry, but i think the real weapon is his scar. Harry's scar is the link between Voldemort and himself. We now know that Harry feels Voldy's emotions, see Voldy's dreams, and is even in Voldy's own head seeing what Voldemort sees in real time.

As time passes, the scar reveals more secrets and this can only make the link between Harry and Voldemort stronger. Maybe Voldemort has his own scar? :eyebrows:

But I think for Harry to defeat Voldemort, he would have to advantage of the connection they have and try to infiltrate Voldemort's mind to beat him.

[HPGoddess101]

I don't know what his weapon will be but I know it will be bad. Also, I think the weapon will result in somebody close to Harry dying. :upset:

[Weasleytwin]

Not only does Voldemort know a lot of dark magic that no one else does, but he can create new dark magic himself. In GoF, he states that the potion that made him regain a babyish body was his own creation: using unicorn blood and snake venom from Nagini. So, here we know that he can and does create new magic. The spell he uses to regain his body is ancient dark magic, so here we know that he studies long-forgotten dark magic. I think the reason we have not seen more dark magic is that the books are told from Harry's point of view and the only times that Harry has come in contact with Voldemort (back in his body) are several chapters from GoF and OotP. But don't forget that it goes the other way too: according one of the Professor Marshbanks (OWL examinator) Dumbledore had done things on his Transfiguration and Charms NEWTS that she had never seen before. I was certainly impressed with Dumbledore's performance against LV at the MoM!

[weasleyfan]

first of all, like most of you, i always thought it was the prophecy, but then, i remember harry thinking that it was Voldemort's ability to control his mind.

[TwitchyFERRET04]

It must have been the prophecy, and everyone must have been thinking that the prophecy would be some great help to them all....

[ornjbreezy]

Is anyone else confused by this bit? DD says that the weapon Voldemort has been seeking is the knowledge of how to destroy Harry, but the prophecy doesn't say anywhere in it (that we've heard) HOW to kill Harry, just that Voldy NEEDS to kill Harry if he wants to take over the world and be the evil dictator and all. :huh: Why did DD say that the prophecy told how to destroy Harry, when it doesn't? Perhaps it has something to do with the power Harry has that Voldy doesn't, and then Voldy could manipulate that to destroy Harry (aka killing all of the people he loves so that Harry doesn't really want to live anymore).
I think he probably has other weapons, but it seemed pretty clear that the weapon referenced throughout the book is indeed how to kill Harry. Except...JK never really tells us...how to kill Harry....like she said she would? :huh:

[peddlerofdeath]

DD doesnt say the prophecy tells voldie how to kill harry he just says thats the info Voldemort wants. Just because he thinks the prophecy tells how to kill harry doesnt neccerally make it true. Didn't you think the prophecy would tell how to kill harry before you read it... my point exactly.

[fillups]

im not sure that was ever made clear.
hasn't voldmort put two and two together and realized that dumbledore is practically in possession of the person who makes all these prophecies regarding the dark wars.

i mean, when sirius said that voldemort wanted a weapon that he needed through stealth...does that mean that he was trying to get the prophecy?
i suspect so....

however, harry thought that he was the weapon and was supposedly wrong, it seems that the prophecy was the weapon. BUT moody implied something about harry having these images, was moody infact expressing worries that harry might give voldemort a view into the order of the phoenix or was he saying that voldemort would try to lure harry into the department of mysteries?

i know this post hasn't been exactly organized but....they all seem to revolve around the same set of circumstances...

anyway, is it possible or likely that the weapon wasn't harry or the prophecy, maybe it was treelawney?

[boopsydoodle]

I believe the weapon was the prophecy because Voldemort only knew of part of the prophecy. He didn't know the rest of it that Voldemort can't live while Harry survives and vice versa.

[coljoo]

I agree, the weapon was the prophecy, Harry was one of the means to get the prophecy. I personally think that with all the other people sneaking into the ministry, such as death eaters, it would have been way easier for him to get it himself.

[Severus_Rules_07]

I believe the weapon was the prophecy because Voldemort only knew of part of the prophecy. He didn't know the rest of it that Voldemort can't live while Harry survives and vice versa.


Also, the prophecy was being used to lure Harry to the Department of Mysteries, and by doing so giving Voldemort a chance to defeat either Harry or one of the many people who live to protect him, e.g. Sirius, May he rest in peace!, therefore I guess you could say that reguardless of what the prophecy said it was still being used by Voldemort as a weapon! :cool:

[grunge faerie]

The prophecy was the weapon. It needed to be gained by stealth because only those who the prophecy was about could get it, and voldemort couldn't walk into the MoM and get it himself. (someone please correct me if I'm worng, I don't have the book handy). He therefore had to use stealth, lure harry there, to get it.

[coljoo]

well he could get into the MoM and the DoM but that would risk being seen. Which in the end he was seen anyway...would have been better for him to go on his own. Not that I want him to get suceed.

[enchantedgerbil]

I thought it was pretty obvious that the prophesy was the weapon, although one can never be sure. Maybe Jo was trying to trick us into thinking that it was the prophesy, when in reality it was Harry.

[Badb Catha]

im not sure that was ever made clear.
hasn't voldmort put two and two together and realized that dumbledore is practically in possession of the person who makes all these prophecies regarding the dark wars.


And this is the reason for which Trelawney teaches in Hogwards. Dumbledore doesn't trust Divination as a subject, and doesn't trust Trelawney as both seer and teacher. He keeps her in Hogwarts in order to protect her against Voldemort and the Dead Eaters. Do you remember what happened to the Longbottoms?
Actually, also Hagrid and Snape are in Hogwarts for the same reason. Obviously, in my humble opinion.


anyway, is it possible or likely that the weapon wasn't harry or the prophecy, maybe it was treelawney?
A weapon must be reliable and fully controllable. According to the books, when Trelawney makes a effective prophecy (a prophecy that is going to really happen, like the one we are discussing on, or the one about Wormtail returning to Voldemort in PoA), she never is trying to divine. While speaking, she never knows what she's telling. Prophecy done, she never knows its content. When she tries to make a prophecy, the prophecy is meaningless. That is: a prophecy is never made by someone, it happens to someone. It's not a tool, it's a curse.
So, Trelawney can't be used as a weapon, since her divination skill is neither reliable nor controllable.

[TheOtherWizard]

The Prophecy has to be the weapon no question about it(excluding this one of course) Voldemort didn't even know about the Harry/Lord Voldermort connection until the snake attacked Mr.Weasley according to Dumbledore. The weapon was trying to be taken before this happened so how could Lord Voldermort be after Harry as the weapon.

[persephone]

I don't really see how a prophecy could be used as a weapon, at least not this one. It was clearly an important bit of information, but it wasn't a weapon per se, at least not in any way for Voldemort to use. Dumbledore could and did use it as a lure, but it never really served as an actual weapon. I think this prophecy business is more of a blind for the readers than a weapon for the characters.

[Alastor D]

Voldemort didn't know how the prophesy ended. His eavesdropper had been thrown out from the Hog's Head before Trelawney finished it. He thought that it would contain information about how to get rid of Harry and survive it. The knowledge he could get out of it was the weapon, not the prophesy itself.

fillups it would be very kind of you to correct the spelling of Sybill Trelawney in the thread title. Because the search engine doesn't find misspelled names. Some use of the shift key wouldn't hurt either. :)

[lily_ofthenight]

Er...I kind of got the impression that the KNOWLEDGE of the prophecy was Voldemort's weapon...you know, because with that knowledge, he could find a way to circumvent it...isn't that what Slytherins do?

Oh, and Alastor D, I think it's spelled Sybil Trelawney...hehe...

Lily

[Alastor D]

Oh, and Alastor D, I think it's spelled Sybil Trelawney...hehe...
Not in the British books. :D

[gred_n_forge]

Also, the prophecy was being used to lure Harry to the Department of Mysteries, and by doing so giving Voldemort a chance to defeat either Harry or one of the many people who live to protect him, e.g. Sirius, May he rest in peace!, therefore I guess you could say that reguardless of what the prophecy said it was still being used by Voldemort as a weapon! :cool:

:welcome:

I, too, feel the weapon is the prophecy. Also, at the end of OOtP, doesnt DD tell Harry that this is the weapon LV has been seeking so desperately... or something along those lines? The knowledge of how to kill you- since he has not been successful each time he has tried.

[esmerelda]

Er...I kind of got the impression that the KNOWLEDGE of the prophecy was Voldemort's weapon...you know, because with that knowledge, he could find a way to circumvent it...isn't that what Slytherins do?

That's what I thought too, but describing it as a weapon in the first place was quite misleading to me. I suppose Sirius and Lupin were trying to be as vague as possible, but the word "weapon" put me in mind of something physcial and deadly.

[tarachristwen]

probably the prophecy..could it be something else?