Who Will Fall In Love With Whom? v19: More tea, vicar?

[Morgoth]

Time for a fresh Love thread/poll. v18 can be found HERE (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=28525)

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Discuss away my little munchkins,

[Classical_Wizar]

19 already? Ron Luna

[ami padme]

New thread! :D


**Waves R/Hr and H/L flags, waits for the usual long and fast-paced debates to leave her in the dust**

[daalig]

H/H is off to a good start this time, maybe from the debates in the last thread people opinions starting to change? Not likely, since it's too early to tell!

R/H is on 0 :D The way it should be

Oh, and I'm in the Harry/Umbridge camp! Hem Hem! She gave all those detentions because she LIKED harry, and all those arguments mad it obvious they have a love/hate relationship just like Ron/Hermione. I'm going to get roasted. :P

[Classical_Wizar]

H/H is off to a good start this time, maybe from the debates in the last thread people opinions starting to change? Not likely, since it's too early to tell!

R/H is on 0 :D The way it should be

Oh, and I'm in the Harry/Umbridge camp! Hem Hem! :Pshe keeps him in check huh?

[DarkMark]

I would like to see Harry and Luna! :cool:

[daalig]

I think Luna is a great Character but I don't think she's developed enough for a relationship with one of the Main Characters for Book 6. Depending on what happens on Book 6, Luna and Ron is a possibility for 7. But I'd need Book 6 to prove it. :)

[MalfoyVsPotter]

Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks! Tonks And Lupin! Lupin And Tonks!

[daalig]

To a more serious point, I'll post this FAQ again over from JK's official site.

Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?

I can't believe that some of you haven't worked this one out yet, but I'm not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.

The word 'some' stood out to me for some reason. It's SOME not MANY. If she's been reading the arguments all over the net, what Relationship is in the Minority and what's in the Majority? From the last thread I'd say Ron/Hermoine is much more popular. And the word 'some' indicates to me, that the minority haven't worked it out yet. The H/H shippers.

I still think it's H/H, but what is everyones else thoughts on this?

[Augurey]

Hey im a strong believer in Harry and Hermione, and greatly dislike the idea of Hermione being with Ron, but you know if JK decides thats the way she wanted to go then i respect that decession, although i don't think she will go that way.

[miss_lupin86]

Ron and hermione is going to happen and i have already expressed my opinions on this in the previous thread :D but i couldn't read this and not LOL! at this:



Oh, and I'm in the Harry/Umbridge camp! Hem Hem! She gave all those detentions because she LIKED harry, and all those arguments mad it obvious they have a love/hate relationship just like Ron/Hermione. I'm going to get roasted. :P

Please if you do write a fiction on this OWL moi! I would love to read it!! She seemed very sadistic to me so it is quite possible ^-^

I also have written a Snape and Hagrid fic but people may throw stones at me...

[duffer]

I also have written a Snape and Hagrid fic but people may throw stones at me...


Oh, do you have a link for that? It seems so bizarre I'd love to check it out
:rotfl:

[Apollyon]

To a more serious point, I'll post this FAQ again over from JK's official site.



The word 'some' stood out to me for some reason. It's SOME not MANY. If she's been reading the arguments all over the net, what Relationship is in the Minority and what's in the Majority? From the last thread I'd say Ron/Hermoine is much more popular. And the word 'some' indicates to me, that the minority haven't worked it out yet. The H/H shippers.

I still think it's H/H, but what is everyones else thoughts on this?

I would agree with that, except there is nothing to 'work out' with R/Hr, it's 'obvious' as so many people put it. That question is as open-ended as they come also, so I wouldn't look too deeply into it. It seems that it's either Hr-->R or Hr-->H, and as Hermione is the hardest character to interpret, then I can't see how anyone can come to a conclusion on that, considering the books are from Harry's POV and readers are kept in the dark about Hr/Krum interactions.

[daalig]

Please if you do write a fiction on this OWL moi! I would love to read it!! She seemed very sadistic to me so it is quite possible ^-^

lol! I read that and thought about it for 2 seconds. Then I sharp shiver rolled down my spine in disgust. Would be extrememly funny, though I'd say we'd be the only people laughing/ :)

Maybe Umbridge will find love and hapiness outside of Hogwarts, who knows. Maybe if Lockhart gets his memory back.

[daalig]

I would agree with that, except there is nothing to 'work out' with R/Hr, it's 'obvious' as so many people put it. That question is as open-ended as they come also, so I wouldn't look too deeply into it. It seems that it's either Hr-->R or Hr-->H, and as Hermione is the hardest character to interpret, then I can't see how anyone can come to a conclusion on that, considering the books are from Harry's POV and readers are kept in the dark about Hr/Krum interactions.

I really think she was just fueling the fire so we would become more confused or even confident for some people of our theories and start debating it more. When I read it I got worked up thinking I'm right, but after I read it a few times I wasn't any smarter over the whole issue.

[Heatherhobbit]

Ron and Hermione supporter here! Harry will end up with Ginny or Luna!

[LilyEvans]

New thread! New thread! *does the new thread dance*

Hey all. Welcome to version 19. Dear me but we argue a lot. Ah well. Keeps things interesting.

Lupin and Tonks? Well, I think yes. He needs some cheering up. He just lost another friend. He could use a few new ones. And she has a job. She can support them both. :)

More tea, anyone? It's what my mum does when we can't decide on a ship...

[FlyingPhoenix]

Munchkins, interesting :rotfl:


GryffindorGr you made me laugh in Thread 18. At least one was entertained.

Ah well back to the topic at hands. I expect to see H/Hr at one point or another. Its certainly not because I want it to see but rather because I do and did read it in the books which are from the perspective of a 15 year old boy. Someone who went for a girl just by her looks. Its rather funny how I think at this ship. I mean it did indeed show and present some very important aspect of life if H/hr happens. You see H/C was a ship based just by looks the opposite would, no must be H/Hr a ship which isn't started by one single smile but a friendship where both partys did work on it, builded up and went through years of difficult.
By H/C it was one tragedy made this ship impossible but by H/Hr itmight be exactly the opposite. The reason why I don't think its H/G isn't because I dislike Ginny, well I would probably dislike her in a H/G ship that it is but as person, as character very useful for a fiction I say.
Its that Ginny was not present, not much present in Harry's life. I know we once talked about attraction if Harry were strongly attracted to her I assure you this girl hadn't so less screen time in this books.

Just take as example as Hermione came in the serie though she was annoying she got screen-time, a lot if I may say. In CoS there was a chance to have Ginny as a little annoying girl just to show Harry is in any way attracted to her but this was not like that. All what Ginny does is to exist somewhere, anywhere. She has no more crucial role as the Weasley Twins.

Many say in OotP Ginny was more present and thats why H/G is more possible. I disagree, yes Ginny was more in but not as LI rather as friend and nothing, absolutely nothing more. There is no scene where you think yes they are falling for each other, it does not exist.

Her role don't increase much, she isn't much more important as before. There exist a surprising lack of interest in Harry's LoveLife from Ginny's part. She simply don't really care if Harry is with Cho or with Girly Something together what she cares for is why Harry was down because he is her friend.

Harry is for nearlly every Weasley a friend and important so it shouldn't surprise that Ginny speaks with Harry, that she trys to calm him or that she trys to reasoning him. Its nothing surprising. I'm sure it would be more surprising if Ginny did simply not care for Harry.

[Classical_Wizar]

Lupin and Tonks? Well, I think yes. He needs some cheering up. He just lost another friend. He could use a few new ones. And she has a job. She can support them both. You’re right but I don’t see Lupin as someone who would sit by and have himself a sugar mommy. Umbridge really ruined his life with that anti were wolf thing of hers.

[LilyEvans]

I know, Classical Wizar, I know. Poor guy. He needs to get out and do something. Which is a very bad thing. He may get careless. Grr. Stinky Umbridge. Maybe an Umbridge/Fudge ship! Lol. They'd distract each other so everyone else could get on with the important stuff. Like defeating Voldy.

[Classical_Wizar]

i thought fudge and umbridge already had something going on the side. maybe it was just me though.

[FoxyDoxy]

I have a question for all of those who think H/Hr shouldn't happen because there like brother and sister yet support H/G-Why?
How is Hermione like a sister yet Ginny isn't? (despite the fact that Mr and Mrs Weasley see Harry as a son)

[daalig]

I don't think we'll see any relationships outside of the School, would it really be important and something that's needed in the plotline? Then again, we might get updates on Percy, Fred and George. Weasley Twins have the money now, I'm sure they could rake in the women. :P

[LilyEvans]

Don't worry daalig. I was only kidding. To answer your question, foxydoxy, I don't think H/G have a brother/sister connection. He doesn't quite trust her though. Not as implicitly as he trusts Ron and Hermione. But I am not a H/G shipper. I think the poor boy would be better off on his own.

[Classical_Wizar]

I have a question for all of those who think H/Hr shouldn't happen because there like brother and sister yet support H/G-Why?
How is Hermione like a sister yet Ginny isn't? (despite the fact that Mr and Mrs Weasley see Harry as a son) I think he sees her as his best friend little sister, until he stops there can be no relationship beyond friendship. edit his best friend annoying little sister.

[FoxyDoxy]

To answer your question, foxydoxy, I don't think H/G have a brother/sister connection. He doesn't quite trust her though or even talk to her unless he has to. he's probably spent more time talking to Ernie McMillan!

edit
edit his best friend annoying little sister.
She annoys me a bit to.

[Classical_Wizar]

or even talk to her unless he has to. he's probably spent more time talking to Ernie McMillan!Exactly he doesn’t spend that much time with her because she isn’t in his grade or cliché.

[daalig]

I also think that if Ron and Ginny do survive, they will end up with PureBloods. I remember reading the Weasley family is one of the oldest Pure Blood Families. I'd say they'd keep the pure line going.

[HamzaR]

You know, Harry just might be too angry and full of angst to do any romancing in the next two books. Not to mention there's always Voldy to keep him on his toes.

But if there is any Romance i'd hope it was between H/Hr

[Classical_Wizar]

I also think that if Ron and Ginny do survive, they will end up with PureBloods. I remember reading the Weasley family is one of the oldest Pure Blood Families. I'd say they'd keep the pure line going. I don’t think it matters to the Weasley its not like the Blacks that wipe you clean from the family tree, beside Arthur has brothers and so does Ron to keep the line going with or without marrying pureblooded witches/wizards.

[Heatherhobbit]

I think I would like a H/G pairing more, but a H/L pairing might be better for Harry. A H/Hr pairing is kind of incestual.

[FoxyDoxy]

You know, Harry just might be too angry and full of angst to do any romancing in the next two books. Not to mention there's always Voldy to keep him on his toes.
As JK said- 'What's life without a little romance'

[FoxyDoxy]

org by meI have a question for all of those who think H/Hr shouldn't happen because there like brother and sister yet support H/G-Why?
How is Hermione like a sister yet Ginny isn't? (despite the fact that Mr and Mrs Weasley see Harry as a son)

org by Heatherhobbit
I think I would like a H/G pairing more, but a H/L pairing might be better for Harry. A H/Hr pairing is kind of incestual.

Why?Why? can someone please explain! I feel like everyone else is reading a different book.- one where Ginny actually does something!

[Heatherhobbit]

I definitely think Harry will have some kind of romance, but I don't see it being a huge part of the story.

[Hawk 92]

From the Love Thread version 18

Besides, Mr. Weasley should be more than thrilled when he finds out that Ginny's going out with muggleborn Dean.
Actually Godric's Heiress Dean isn't muggle born. Dean's father was a wizard who was killed for refusing to join the Death Eaters, therefore Dean is half blood.

I think that Dean is the half blood prince from the title

Could Ginny's new found role be to supply us with this information about Dean? Could be.

Cheers!

[daalig]

I definitely think Harry will have some kind of romance, but I don't see it being a huge part of the story.

lol, it will be a huge part of the story, the last 5 books have been working towards the H/H or H/R relationship.

[DragoonKain3]

Dropping in quick before I go back to reading fanfiction. (Darn PK awards, so many to read >.< ) I feel bad for Jackel, since no one seems to have noticed his post for half a page, so...

For me, relationships (love+regular friends), are about having someone there who you relate to, whose presence you enjoy, and majorly, fills a space of something that you need.
Hear, Hear! A belief that one would be hardpressed not to find in a harmonian.

The way I see this, is that Harry Potter has shown an aversion to being "popular." All his life, he has wanted nothing more, than his loving parents back, and to be a normal boy, living life OUT of the limelight. And considering that Harry is a very powerful wizard(at least practically, maybe not in school), I just don't get the feeling that HP really wants a perfectionist like Hermione for the rest of his life.
Let's assume your speculation to be true; that Harry doesn't really want a perfectionist as a LI. That would imply Harry caring less about perfectionist's values and said values would have no effect at him at all. However, that directly contradicts canon, because out of the two, it is Harry who desperately doesn't want to disappoint Hermione with her grades. Heck, it is this same compulsion that drives Harry to study harder than he ever has before. So tell me, if Harry doesn't really want a perfectionist as a spouse, then why does a perfectionist affect him so?

If it's anyone who really doesn't want a 'perfectionist', it is Ron, as he is the one who constantly mocks perfectionist type of attitude.

Enter Ginny, a simple, fiery little girl who is almost the same as Harry. She has the same sort of wit that Harry has, and while she certainly follows the rules, she also has no hesitation in breaking them, just as Harry.
I fail to see how being similar/disimilar has any effect on a relationship; it is after all how a couple deals with commonalities and differences that determines whether a relationship succeeds or fails. But I digress....

If what you have said is an indicator of romance, then Hermione possesses the same attributes. If one talks about wit in terms of keeness, then there are numerous examples where it is only Harry and Hermione who realize the subtle message (ex. 'dogging'). If one talks about wit in terms of humor, Harry has the ability to make Hermione laugh. And finally, Hermione also exhibit 'following rules, but has no hesitation breaking them'. DA anyone?

She also the only(i think?) person Harry knows who has had some sort of mental "connection" with Lord Voldemort. Harry with his prickly scar, and Ginny of course being possessed by LV in CoS.
And yet this mental connection only helped Harry AFTER Hermione got him out of his self-imposed exile. The only 'connection' to get Harry out of that room would be the one he has with Hermione. A lot of good Ginny's would've been if Hermione didn't come...

Also, it is not only Hermione nor Ginny who has a connection with Harry. Luna also has a 'connection' with Harry that no one else has; she has lost someone close to her.

Whenever Ginny talks about other boys, I always get the feeling that she is interested in them, but she never seems head over heals, and I get the feeling she has some thoughts about her former crush that still carry heavy weight with her.
Pure speculation on your part. In fact, canon disagrees with you, unless you call 1) Hermione a liar, 2) Ginny a liar, or 3) you do not take the obvious meaning when Hermione says Ginny isn't interested in that way anymore. And if half a year relationship is of any indication (pretty long for a 14-year old), and add to that that Ginny seems to have rebounded from that break-up quite quickly, I'd say option 3 is most unlikely of the given options.

To more material things, Harry Potter is quite exceedingly well off, while Ginny Weasley is fairly poor, having always worn hand me downs from her previous six brothers.
First off, Harry Potter might be a bit wealthy, but as of right now his income is negative. As such, even he has to 'tighten his belt', or so to speak, so that he has enough for the remaining years in Hogwarts. Also, Ginny would have much less Hand-me-downs, as the next older sibling is only a year older (which means Ron hasn't grown out of his clothes yet) and that she is female (which means a lot of the hand-me-downs are just no suitable).

That is also not taking to account that, by the way you have said it, that Ginny should be with Harry for monetary reasons...

She has also always been the smallest little one in a large family, while Harry has been for all intents and purposes, a lone child, both outcasts in a way.
I very much doubt that being the baby of the family would make her an outcast. In fact, her being the only daughter, and only female Weasley for I forgot how many generations would actually imply the opposite.

They are also both seekers
A lot of good that did Cho. :rollseyes:


RE:R/HR
Ever heard the term opposites attract?
I find it quite odd that in H/G you try so hard to prove that the similarities between them equals a Romance, and yet in R/Hr you go into how being dissimilar equals romance. So which is it really, or are you willing to hold different standards for different ships? Because in that case there is, at the very least, one standard that you can use for H/Hr that would make it very likely indeed.

Ron is there to help Hermione loosen up, and ease her through breaking the rules, while Hermione is there to help him use his head a little more often, and sort of keep him out of trouble.
Canon points out that whenever Hermione breaks the rules, Harry, in one shape or form, is involved. So at the very least Harry also helps Hermione loosen up, and if I remember canon correctly, Harry is THE reason Hermione loosens up. I can't recall a time when Hermione broke a rule for the sake of Ron, though there is plenty of times when she did it with Harry.

Also, if the voice in his head is of any indication, Hermione is Harry's 'Jiminy Cricket'. And we all know who it was Hermione was trying to make him think rationally when Sirius 'was about to die'. Therefore, Harry at the very least is on par with this kind of attitude from Hermione, and because Harry actually listens to such advice, I'd say he is on top of Ron.

There's too many to list, but the basic gist of it, is Ron is the type of person who needs someone strong willed to help him through life(like his mom was through their childhood), and Hermione needs someone to keep her down to earth.
And what makes you think that Harry doesn't need someone as strong willed as Hermione through life? If we are talking about needs, I'll quote JKR. Harry needs Hermione badly. Also, how did you arrive at the conclusion that Hermione is not 'down to earth'? Out of the trio, she is the one most so, if her logical prowess is of any indication.

Theres also the more-related-to-the-plot aspect that Hermione is a "mudblood" and Ron is a "pureblood."
And how exactly does this tie in to the plot, or even as shipping evidence?


RE: N/L (I like their FAP name: HMS the Government stole my Toad. Absolutely Hilarious! IIRC, also the most popular and well-liked name of that forum. ^^ )
Since these two aren't "main" characters, there's not as much info on them, but I just get this hunch that the trio(+ginny) aren't the only ones who are going to start feeling those weird feelings called "love."
True that, except we disagree on who would fall in love with whom. I myself belong to HMS Dumbledore's Army (the defunct FAP name for H/Hr, R/LL, N/G). At the very least, N/G has much more interaction than N/L, so in my mind much more likely. I just found that "I'm nobody" "No you're not" scene quite cute. ^_^


Well, I bet most of you probably disagree with me, but I just some sort of gut feeling about these 3 relationships.
Unfortunately, our gut feelings alone provide no further support to increasing/decreasing the likelihood of any ships. T_T

Maybe it's all the reading into the details of these characters, or maybe it's just that mexican food I had for lunch, but it's there, and it ain't going away.
It's there alright, but IMO character details has less of an impact on a ship than how they interact because of my belief on why relationships work.

I just can't wait til books 6+7 so I can come back here and say "toldja so!"
You would be surprised by how many of the opposing side are just itching to say the same thing... :/


ETA: Exactly where does the title of the thread come from? What reference does 'More tea, vicar' come from?

[Heatherhobbit]

Actually I think gut feelings are very important. Good writers, like Ms. Rowling, can give you a feeling about something.

[FlyingPhoenix]

ETA: Exactly where does the title of the thread come from? What reference does 'More tea, vicar' come from?

Its a song, or? By Iron Maiden. I have the feeling its from a novel which says nothing more as: An endless discussion

I think I would like a H/G pairing more, but a H/L pairing might be better for Harry. A H/Hr pairing is kind of incestual.

I clearly missed the point where JKR mentioned Hermione Potter.

[esicardi]

I said:

1) Regarding Ron's fight with Harry in GoF, he felt far more betrayed then that during the Firebolt incident with Hermione in PoA. In the latter case Harry knew Hermione had meant it well, meanwhile in the former he couldn't accept Ron's attitude despite Hermione explained Ron's feelings to him.
LilyEvans answered:


Er, no idea what I said. But hey. Did he feel more betrayed? Can you prove it? If so, great. If not, never mind.
Yes I can prove what I said. During the Firebolt incident Harry was angry but deep down he knew Hermione meant it well (emphasis mine):

Harry knew that Hermione had meant well, but that didn't stop him from being angry with her. He had been the owner of the best broom in the world for a few short hours, and now, because of her interference, he didn't know whether he would ever see it again.
However, during GoF fight with Ron he was so angry with him that couldn't understand his reaction even after Hermione explained it to him (emphasis mine):

"Oh Harry, isn't it obvious?" Hermione said despairingly. "He's jealous!"
"Jealous?" Harry said incredulously. "Jealous of what? He wants to make a prat of himself in front of the whole school, does he?"
"Look," said Hermione patiently, "it's always you who gets all the attention, you know it is. I know it's not your fault," she added quickly, seeing Harry open his mouth furiously. "I know you don't ask for it.. . but - well - you know, Ron's got all those brothers to compete against at home, and you're his best friend, and you're really famous - he's always shunted to one side whenever people see you, and he puts up with it, and he never mentions it, but I suppose this is just one time too many. . .
"Great," said Harry bitterly. "Really great. Tell him from me I'll swap any time he wants. Tell him from me he's welcome to it.... People gawping at my forehead everywhere I go. . ."
"I'm not teiling him anything," Hermione said shortly. "Tell him yourself. It's the only way to sort this out."
"I'm not running around after him trying to make him grow up!" Harry said, so loudly that several owls in a nearby tree took flight in alarm. "Maybe he'll believe I'm not enjoying myself once I've got my neck broken or -"
"That's not funny," said Hermione quietly. "That's not funny at all." She looked extremely anxious. "Harry, I've been thinking - you know what we've got to do, don't you? Straight away, the moment we get back to the castle?"
"Yeah, give Ron a good kick up the -"
"Write to Sirius. You've got to tell him what's happened. He asked you to keep him posted on everything that's going on at Hogwarts. . . . It's almost as if he expected something like this to happen. I brought some parchment and a quill out with me -"
It is clear from the text that Harry can't understand Ron's motivations here. That's why I said he felt more betrayed. In the former case he could understand why Hermione did what she did even without any explanation and knew she meant it well, in the latter case Harry was furious and couldn't understand Ron motivations, the explanation of his behaviour only made Harry angrier.

I said:

2)Regarding your question, the answer is very easy. Ron is mean to Hermione in a regular basis, so why shouldn't her be mean to him? Moreover, if you want an example of fictional people who are mean to each other and still remain friends without any romantic connotation, I'll give you one: Lisa and Bart Simpson. BTW, JKR's a fan of The Simpsons, being Lisa her favorite character.
LilyEvans answered:


They are SIBLINGS. I fight with my brother all the time. That doesn't mean I don't love him. Just, sometimes I don't like him very much. Lisa is my favourite character too. Does this mean I will end up dating Nelson Muntz? Ok, sorry. My fingers ran away with me, I meant no harm.
Exactly my point. Ron and Hermione fight like siblings. So there's no sexual tension there.


Ron is mean to Hermione, so she is mean back. Fair enough. But HARRY is mena to Hermione too. He spends a large proportion of PS thinking she is a know-it-all, and shouts at her and Ron an awful lot over the course of the other 4 books, particularly OotP. Yes, he has a little more justification to shout. But not once does she lose her temper with him. Though he loses his temper completely with her, she remains completely calm and doesn't let her emotion get in the way. Why can't she do this with Ron?
Easy. Because Hermione has a soft spot for Harry but not for Ron. To me this is just one of the many manifestations of Hermione clear preference of Harry over Ron. So if this points to anything shippy it is in favor of Hermione--->Harry and against the idea of Hermione liking Ron.

Bye!
:cool:
esicardi

[FoxyDoxy]

Heatherhobbit u still haven't answered me. I'm not being rude I really want to know.

I have a question for all of those who think H/Hr shouldn't happen because there like brother and sister yet support H/G-Why?
How is Hermione like a sister yet Ginny isn't? (despite the fact that Mr and Mrs Weasley see Harry as a son)

[GilyAnn]

From last thread

Originally by MoodyMania
No, it doesn't. I support no ship myself yet I do not see where Harry has paid any special attention to Ginny thru all 5 books.

And your comparison of her to Blaise Zabini is completely wrong. Even though he essentially ignores her it doesn't change the fact that she is a Weasley. This means he is around her fairly often. Yet even then he does not have much interaction with her unless she starts talking first. If I had to compare how Harry reacts to Ginny I'd say it's more like how he reacts to Percy. Bot are Weasleys so he's around them quite a bit but he does not go out of his way to talk with either.

From reading your posts you say you base all your evidence of a H/G ship on canon. Yet I never see you actually quote any.

Then you haven't been following my post because they evidence is there. You want a better comparison? Ok then let's take Susan Bones that would be ignoring her. But Harry doesn't ignore her and I'm sorry I only see H/Hr shippers claim that.

Originally by Harry19
I never said Ginny has to be evil, without other choices and from what I've read from other Harmonians, they ddin't too. But there is the chance that she could go evil, as well as there is the chance that Ron betrays Harry. I don't think this will happen, but with JK one can never know.

Yes I hear this a lot, you never know. But I'm going to have to agree with Prongssr. You take Ron as a chance, Ginny can go evil and what about Hermione? Since most of the harmonians think that JKR never does the obvious wouldn't she be a real 'surprise' if we are going to weight the chances of people being evil, Hermione should be treated as everyone else. I don't think that neither of ther three will betray Harry but that's another story.

But the fact is that R/Hr can't put Rona nd Hermione above Harry because this is the Harry Potter series, not the Ron Weasley one. While we can put Hermione above Ron because Hermione is the one who helps Harry more in resolving his adventures.

H/Hr shippers put Hermione sometimes above Harry. While Hermione helps Harry on his adventures, so has Ron and both of this sidekicks have been portrait as equals in the books.

Originally by FoxyDoxy
Why?Why? can someone please explain! I feel like everyone else is reading a different book.- one where Ginny actually does something!

Je je je we often think that. Other people read a different book. What is exactly that you are asking for?

Gily Ann

[Heatherhobbit]

FoxyDoxy: Harry sees Ginny as Ron's sister. Not his own. Harry and Ginny really haven't had a chance to bond yet, but they do have enough in their pasts to get them started. They've just both been busy with other things in their lives.

Harry and Hermione have a sibling type relationship. They are very close and love each other deeply. They have loyalty and trust. However, there is no spark. We are seeing the story from Harry's POV, yet I have seen nothing indicating that he is attracted to her. And as for Hermione, her actions toward Harry have not indicated an attraction on her part either. Quite the contrary, she helped Harry with Cho, even though she may not have approved of it (kind of how Ron doesn't approve of anybody Ginny dates) Harry has shown no jealousy toward Viktor or Ron's relationship with Hermione, even though we do know from the prefect incident that he has the capacity for jealousy. The only time Harry was jealous of Ron and Hermione being together, it was because he was mad that they got to be together while he was stuck with the Dursleys. Not because he thought they were snogging.

[FlyingPhoenix]

You take Ron as a chance, Ginny can go evil and what about Hermione?

May I? On the thread who will most likely betray or be a traitor to Harry I did say that I can and do think it might be Hermione.
The reasons for this are simple one can easily bring her to a point where she must decide between her parents and Harry, its even easily that she think she does protect Harry in a strange way but still its very possible that Hermione might become a traitor.
This would be interesting if Harry is able to understand and to forgive her. There exist very interesting FanFics out there with this scenario. So we as H/Hr shipper don't just pic out Ginny and Ron.

[esicardi]

GilyAnn, I have not time to answer your post now due to its lenght, but I wanted to comment on the Evil!Harry or Evil!Hermione issue. Evil!Harry is not very likely because he is the main character from whose perspective we see the books, so if Harry and Voldemort join together plot wouldn't make much sense. Moreover, it would contradict the Prophecy. Regarding Evil!Hermione, it would be completely out of the blue since Hermione has been the most loyal and helpful girl in Harry's life. Moreover, Harry needs her badly, so I am afraid Harry will be lost without Hermione's aid, especially since she's the brain of the trio. Imperious!Hermione or Possesed!Hermione is not impossible, but Ginny has more chances because she was already possesed and Ron has chances as well because his weakness to Imperious was remarked in GoF. But no, I don't discard Hermione being possesed or hexed by Imperious, it is just I see more chances for Ginny and even for Ron. But Hermione is also a possibility. BTW, I wanted to know what exactly are those "bad choices" Hermione did in the books that you and Prongs,Sr mentioned.
In fact, I completely agree with FP, there's even H/Hr fanfics which deal with the idea of Possesed!Hermione and/or Imperious!Hermione, so you see we don't exclude Hermione at all.

ETA: Ironically the quote in your sig, GillyAnn is something that seems to me as suggesting there won't be H/G. I mean, what did JKR mean with "Poor Ginny... Eh?" the "Eh?" sounds as she's teasing about people having pity for Ginny. It is as she was saying "you should not have so much pity about her", so to me it either points to Ginny getting really over Harry and having a life on her own (as happened in OotP) or to Ginny doing something against Harry in the future. I think the former is more likely but the latter could be taken as a sign of Evil!Ginny, even when I am more inclined to Posessed!Ginny or Imperious!Ginny if JKR goes that way.

[GilyAnn]

May I? On the thread who will most likely betray or be a traitor to Harry I did say that I can and do think it might be Hermione.
The reasons for this are simple one can easily bring her to a point where she must decide between her parents and Harry, its even easily that she think she does protect Harry in a strange way but still its very possible that Hermione might become a traitor.
This would be interesting if Harry is able to understand and to forgive her. There exist very interesting FanFics out there with this scenario. So we as H/Hr shipper don't just pic out Ginny and Ron.


Off course you can. Well the thing is that JKR has said how boring Hermione's parents are. In a way I understand since they aren't from the wizarding world and that's what she writes about. So I can't imagine howshe could integrated them(I'm sure she can though) into the story specially since it appears that the side of the story won't make it to the books.

Anyway I agree with Prongs, sr on that Hermione has made a few enemies but I don't think that will lead to a betrayal, I think that those things are more in the line of lessons learned in life, rather than anything about betrayal. I'm though glad that you have consider the possibility and for information purposes I have consider all the possibilities on Ginny's character.

Gily Ann

[miss_lupin86]

lol! I read that and thought about it for 2 seconds. Then I sharp shiver rolled down my spine in disgust. Would be extrememly funny, though I'd say we'd be the only people laughing/ :)

Maybe Umbridge will find love and hapiness outside of Hogwarts, who knows. Maybe if Lockhart gets his memory back.


Yeah i think we would be the only ones laughing for sure. but i have to say i think there should be an umbridge fandom in which she does find love! Harry and Lockart being her first victims... obviously with sadism...

*sick mind works overtime!!!!*

[FoxyDoxy]

there is no spark
Check the sig!
yet I have seen nothing indicating that he is attracted to her.
I agree. Nothing yet. But he does think she's pretty. Has he ever described Ginny as pretty?
And where does it show that Hermione finds Ron attractive (or have I been mistaken and 'You are the most insensitive little wart I have ever had the misfortune to meet' translates into 'I'm so happy to be near such a kind and caring lovemuffin!')

Quite the contrary, she helped Harry with Cho, even though she may not have approved of it
She's shown before that she values harry over her own happiness (and safety)

Harry has shown no jealousy toward Viktor
Yet he was pleased to be seen as an equal, a rival even.

The only time Harry was jealous of Ron and Hermione being together, it was because he was mad that they got to be together while he was stuck with the Dursleys. Not because he thought they were snogging.

He couldn't stand that they were together then, as friends. Do you really think he'd feel any better if they did start going out?
He didn't realise that he wanted to be a prefect with hermione until Ron had take his place. (he didn't even think that Ron might feel left out if he'd got it) What's to say he wont feel the same if R/Hr happens

[miss_lupin86]

lol! I read that and thought about it for 2 seconds. Then I sharp shiver rolled down my spine in disgust. Would be extrememly funny, though I'd say we'd be the only people laughing/ :)

Maybe Umbridge will find love and hapiness outside of Hogwarts, who knows. Maybe if Lockhart gets his memory back.

LOL!!!! at that!


Yeah i think we would be the only ones laughing for sure. but i have to say i think there should be an umbridge fandom in which she does find love! Harry and Lockart being her first victims... obviously with sadism...

*sick mind works overtime!!!!*

[Heatherhobbit]

FoxyDoxy your last post has no evidence in it to prove my point wrong. Or to support a H/Hr ship.


And if shaking someone means that there's a spark...I don't want a boyfriend.

[GilyAnn]

GilyAnn, I have not time to answer your post now due to its lenght, but I wanted to comment on the Evil!Harry or Evil!Hermione issue. Evil!Harry is not very likely because he is the main character from whose perspective we see the books, so if Harry and Voldemort join together plot wouldn't make much sense. Moreover, it would contradict the Prophecy. Regarding Evil!Hermione, it would be completely out of the blue since Hermione has been the most loyal and helpful girl in Harry's life. Moreover, Harry needs her badly, so I am afraid Harry will be lost without Hermione's aid, especially since she's the brain of the trio. Imperious!Hermione or Possesed!Hermione is not impossible, but Ginny has more chances because she was already possesed and Ron has chances as well because his weakness to Imperious was remarked in GoF. But no, I don't discard Hermione being possesed or hexed by Imperious, it is just I see more chances for Ginny are even for Ron. BTW, I am yet to see what are those "bad choices" Hermione did in the books that you and Prongs,Sr mentioned.

First we got a mention of Ron's weakness under the imperious curse but if I'm not mistaken we didnt' see Hermione. We know that Harry was the only who was able to fight it. So we can pressume that she wasn't able to fight it. Isn't that strange, also?

What are those bad choices? Surely you couldn't have missed them. From the top of my head: Hermione blackmailing Rita. Rita would have been an excellent tool on the Order if Hermione would have turn her in. I have no doubt in my mind that Dumbledore would have found more ways to force Rita to help the order. Now her year is over and Rita did her time. What happens if Rita registers, what happens now that after she's done her time decides to get back at Hermione. Specially since she has influences everywhere, Hermione had nothign to hold her with. This wasn't a wise desision. A year is a year. The Elf's and spew. No matter how good her intentions were the Elf's are offended by her behaviour. That's how she put her foot on the mouth with Luna and even with Harry. Even that trip to the forest was a bad idea, they almost got killed by the centaurs and if they would have actually stayed in the Castle, Snape would have been able to find them and tell them that Sirius was safe. That coin that she made for the DA, now that Marietta has a disfigured face wouldn't she and her mother (that work on the ministry) try to get back at her for it? It's an exact replica wouldn't the Goblins be mad, since they are so greedy?

Hermione sometimes doesn't think before she does things, I don't doubt her good intentions but like JKR says she sometimes shunts towards the people she's trying to help(not an exact quote). It's kinda of weird.

Gily Ann

[FlyingPhoenix]

And if shaking someone means that there's a spark..

Fact is Harry didn't shake her period.

[Heatherhobbit]

FoxyDoxy, yes, Harry has noticed Hermione's looks, but his reaction to realizing was different that his reaction to realizing Cho is pretty. With Cho he had a "strange lurch in his stomach region, that had nothing to do with nerves".

[FoxyDoxy]

FoxyDoxy your last post has no evidence in it to prove my point wrong. Or to support a H/Hr ship.
I've used examples from the text(without specific quotes I'll admit but examples none the less) to show
There is as spark (how is Harry shouting at her not a spark yet Ron doing it is?)
There is a chance that harry will become atracted to her as he already sees that she's pretty (but nowt with Ginny)
etc
and your post had no EVIDENCE to prove you right.
And if shaking someone means that there's a spark...I don't want a boyfriend.
he didn't shake her :p

[Classical_Wizar]

Harry has noticed Hermione's looks, but his reaction to realizing was different that his reaction to realizing Cho is pretty. With Cho he had a "strange lurch in his stomach region, that had nothing to do with nerves". With Cho it was exotica look, with Hermione it is oh that is my friend so I don’t pay that much attention to her. Oh Hermione is running her mouth on some off topic thing about this and that again maybe Spew again. One day Harry will wake up and think to himself you know Hermione is quite pretty but it will be too late for him. I would be dating her by then. So anyways my theroy is Ron and Luna, Hermione and me. And every body else ends up with someone out of the group.

[Heatherhobbit]

FlyingPheonix...you're right he didn't shake her, but he wanted to. Besides, if he would have hurt her, Ron probably would have knocked his teeth out.

[GryffindorGr]

GryffindorGr you made me laugh in Thread 18. At least one was entertained.

LOL. :D Glad I could bring some kind of entertainment.

This is to reply from LT version 18.


by Mami
So you are saying that Harry and Ginny will get together due to physical attraction? Harry has only felt physical attraction for one girl, and this is Cho.
And look how that relationship ended up. I think it was put in there to show that a relationship based only in physical attraction doesn't have too much of a future.
In the other hand, Harry does not feel physical attraction for Ginny at this moment, she is just Ron's little sister to him. While I can't rule out that he coud start feeling physical attraction for her in the future, you can not rule that Harry could start feeling attraction too towards Hermione. So I don't see how this support your ship. Also, as I said before, physical or sexual attraction is not enough to build a relationship. Friendship and compatibility are needed too. And Hermione definitely has a head start on that.

Okay, I’ll try to reply in a more realistic fashion. One of the reasons for people getting together is “physical attraction”, note I said one, but it is fundamental. (some would say this is superficial, but I believe it is in the eye of the beholder; where beauty to us lies) I would think that is a healthy part of life. It’s not shallow in the least and in fact, it’s been proven without a reasonable doubt that physical attraction is what drives the opposite sex. One of the other reasons is having things in common, naturally, but what I fail to see for the mean time is that from 5 books, Harry has not shown any physical attraction in the way of romance towards Hermione. This can be argued about Ginny too. Let’s see, if this is the case, then Ginny and Hermione could not possibly be love interests for Harry in the future. Right now he doesn’t see either of them as attractive as Cho. If I recall, in our readings between his reactions to Cho are that of a boy head over heels, with heart pacing, his breath caught, his nervous system a bit jumpy. When you like someone, you feel self conscious and a bit silly really. There’s different ways to reacting/responding to the target of our desire. Sometimes you don’t know if what you’re saying is going to impress them or turn them off. It’s all about taking a chance. And having the guts to dive in and grab the opportunity. This doesn’t always happen of course because there are times when the desired target does not want them back but only as a friend. What a blow to those, eh? But it’s part of life. Luckily for Harry, he’s able to get whoever fancies his interest. He’s a heroic guy and is quite the cutie, not to mention, he’s got a good personality. In the insertion of Hermione’s personality with Harry, I see that it could happen in the future if Harry gets older and mature, (this is why I don’t see R/hr but hey, we could be wrong eh?) perhaps appreciate Hermione in a more romantic sense. Established friendships aren’t always the cause for future romances….romances just happen, like Cho and Harry’s, and Michael and Ginny’s (we didn’t even know Ginny was going out with Michael until she said so!) And Harry’s response to Cho was that he saw her above all else, even above the part veela Fleur, whom Ron found captivating.
How it would support the H/G ship is just that; physical attraction and so far, we’ve gotten not a single negative reaction from Harry towards Ginny, and the same could be said of Hermione in which many here claim Harry says, “You’re not ugly” statement to the full hilt. But why would he say that to his best friend in the first place---to say that she is? Or far from attractive? You just don’t say those things to a girl and your friend. I believe Jo worded it very well, “You’re not ugly”, is a very friendly reaction to defend your friend’s insecurity that they may not feel attractive.

What I feel that you fail to see is that although I agree with what you say; that friendship and compatibility are needed to establish a relationship. Is that it is important (like I said,)to have the first establishment of physical and sexual attraction, the rest just comes……............


I completely agree with this. She loves Ron and cares about him I agree. I hope she doesn't have to choose between them never. She has already been put in this situation and it was in GOF. Ron was angry with Hermione and she stayed with Harry. I know she was trying to have them make up, but still she chose to be with Harry. I think that says a lot about her feelings for him.
Ah, now I see where your thinking is going….in GoF when Ron was angry….well, he’s angry, so why would Hermione stick with Ron if Ron needed to get his head straightened out?

[daalig]

FoxyDoxy, yes, Harry has noticed Hermione's looks, but his reaction to realizing was different that his reaction to realizing Cho is pretty. With Cho he had a "strange lurch in his stomach region, that had nothing to do with nerves".

I bursted out laughing at that quote. -_- I'm not going to say what's on my mind at the moment. :whistle:

I believe Harry doesn't like anyone at moment. It's Hermione and Ron who have a crush or is in love with another Student. The question is who. I'm still a firm believer in the Ron Loves Hermione who Loves Harry Theory. I like it because if H/H do hook up, there will be so much tension between Harry and Ron, which would get things quite interesting. Or maybe I just wish this because I find Ron so annoying. :)

[Heatherhobbit]

As much as Ron fights with Hermione, she has never been scared of him. In OOTP there are several occasions when Hermione is a little scared of Harry.

[Heatherhobbit]

The "you're not ugly" line is what a friend would say to another friend. It does not indicate an attraction. If he was attracted wouldn't it have crossed through his mind at this time? As a reader we kind of get a piece of what's going through his mind, and he didnt' think anything. But when he said it, Hermione immediately mentioned Ron. Why? Was she trying to find out from Harry what Ron thought about it? Maybe? I guess we won't know until Jo wants us to.

[LordIluvatar]

I think the anwser of whoes going to end up together is quite simple. See Harry is the main character so hes going to get the main girl, not Ron. So its going to be H/HR. And just cause theres alot of proof showing this happening also.

[jacEjen]

Yeah a new thread. Wow even this thread is moving fast. :angel:
.

Easy. Because Hermione has a soft spot for Harry but not for Ron. To me this is just one of the many manifestations of Hermione clear preference of Harry over Ron. So if this points to anything shippy it is in favor of Hermione--->Harry and against the idea of Hermione liking Ron.

Bye!
:cool:
esicardi[/QUOTE]


Sorry to disagree with you. But I think that her "soft spot" only illistates the fact that she feels nuturing towards Harry not attracted. But again with personal interpertation. Ah well. Anyway with the whole bickering thing, it would be the first time even in the Harry Potter books that two people who started at odds ended up with each other. Look at Lily and James. I think that Ron/Hermione will follow a similar pattern. I would be surpised if any ship even really starts until the last book. :) Just a theory though

[HermioneWitch28]

I was just looking back through my copy of Goblet of Fire and I found some interesting evidence supporting a Harry/Hermione hook up.

1. When the veela come out onto the field at the quidditch cup, both Harry and Ron fall under the "spell" of the veela. But Hermione notices only that Harry is under a trance, she doesn't comment about Ron once in this whole scene.
" 'Harry what are you doing?' said Hermione's voice from a long way off. The music stopped. Harry blinked He was standing up, and one of his legs was resting on the wall of the box. Next to him, Ron was frozen in an attitude that looked as though he were about to dive from a springboard."

And later on as well- "Hermione made a loud tutting noise. She reached up and pulled Harry back into his seat. 'Honestly!' she said"

2. When Harry is telling Ron and Hermione about his dream and his scar hurting he thinks not of the effect of his words on Ron, but on Hermione, he doesn't want to worry her.
"He had teetered for a moment on the verge of saying 'me,' but couldn't bring himself to make Hermione look anymore horrified than she already did.

3. After Harry, Hermione and the other hostages and champions are above water after the second task, Hermione is ignoring Victor and speaking only to Harry and Harry notices very much when Victor tries to get Hermione's attention back.
"Harry had the impression that Krum was drawing her attention back onto himself; perhaps to remind her that he had just rescued her from the lake, but Hermione bushed away the beetle impatiently and said. 'You're well outside the time limit, though, Harry.... Did it take you ages to find us?' "

[Heatherhobbit]

Ron and Hermione are a lot like Lily and James. Harry even smiles because when Ron is telling them about the Quidditch game he is reminded of what he saw in Snapes Worst Memory. Ron was fluffing his hair and talking about Quidditch just like James was. And James was trying to get Lily's attention, but instead he infuriated her. Just like Ron does to Hermione. And I think, IMHO, that Harry recognizes this and that is why he smiles.

[Heatherhobbit]

HermioneWitch28...to a H/HR shipper that observation might be a good one. But I'll tell you how I interpret that...Hermione wasn't sitting next to Ron. Harry was sitting between them so she is pulling him down. She can't reach Ron. Ginny is sitting on Ron's other side. Ginny's probably dealing with Ron.

He doesn't want to worry Hermione because he knows she would want him to go to Dumbledore, and that's the last thing he wants to do right now.

Hermione is more worried about Ron and Harry than she is about Krum because they are her best friends for 3 years and Krum is a guy that she's known for a few months. Hermione isn't impressed that Krum saved her, because she knows that she was never in any danger.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Ron and Hermione are a lot like Lily and James. Harry even smiles because when Ron is telling them about the Quidditch game he is reminded of what he saw in Snapes Worst Memory. Ron was fluffing his hair and talking about Quidditch just like James was. And James was trying to get Lily's attention, but instead he infuriated her. Just like Ron does to Hermione. And I think, IMHO, that Harry recognizes this and that is why he smiles.

I had no idea that Hermione is a third year Hufflepuff. Really, I should reread the books if something like that slipped through my eye's.

[Prongs, Sr.]

Esicardi

I wanted to know what exactly are those "bad choices" Hermione did in the books that you and Prongs,Sr mentioned.

Where do we start? There were so many.

1) Blackmailing Rita Skeeter - This was a poor choice because Rita is now a formidable enemy. As Gily ann mentioned, all Rita has to do is register as an animagus and Rita is off the hook. Rita threatens Hermione in book 5 ("just you wait"), which is eerily similar to Snape threatening MWPP in the pensieve scene. It is Hermione's fault, not Harry's, that Rita could be after them.

2) The DA Coin - Hermione makes these fake galleons which is basically counterfeit money and she warns everyone not to spend them. We then learn that Harry throws down a galleon on the table at Madam Puddifoots. Could this be a fake galleon? What would the repercussions be if the Goblins found out there was counterfeit money floating around? The Order is trying to unite the goblins. Could Hermione's forging money bring a rift with the Goblins. Again, this was a poor choice and not thought through carefully.

3) Umbridge - Yes, Umbridge was very evil and I had no sympathy for her; however, what gives Hermione the moral right to have the power of life and death over Umbridge? She is being similar to Umbridge here, in that the end justifies the means. Umbridge could have been killed by Hermione's actions. This is very cruel and ruthless on Hermione's part and possibly could have landed her in Azkaban. Again, she did not think this through carefully (bad choice). This storyline could come back in later books.

4) Marrietta - While Marrietta was completely at fault for being the sneak, Hermione's punishment was very cruel, imo. I can see a short term jinx for a week or so, but she still has marks on her face after a couple of months. What is Marrietta is completely disfigured? Again, Hermione makes a morally ambiguous decision. She could have created another problem, as Marrietta's mom works for the MoM. What if her mother wants to check into this fully?

5) The House elves - While Hermione's intentions are wonderful, she keeps going about this the wrong way and she is being disrespectful of Dumbledore. These elves belong to DD and Hogwarts. It is not Hermione's place to free them without DD's permission; that is extremely arrogant on her part. Now, she has alienated the elves.

These are a few of her actions that can be considered poor choices. Hermione is wavering on the borderline between what is easy and what is right, and while her intentions are good, her actions show otherwise.

Back on topic for the LT:

Hawk:

Could Ginny's new found role be to supply us with this information about Dean? Could be.

JKR said that she sacrified Dean's background for Neville's because Neville's is more important to the central plot. With two books left and the focus on Harry's fight with Voldemort, JKR would not make Ginny's romance with Dean a huge plot unless Dean is going to defeat Voldemort along with Ginny's help. Your D/G ship is just wishful thinking, Hawk! :p If JKR was writing D/G, why didn't she just develop this in book 5?

[Classical_Wizar]

I had no idea that Hermione is a third year Hufflepuff. Really, I should reread the books if something like that slipped through my eye's.eh Hermione is hufflebuff lost me there.

[sone]

As much as Ron fights with Hermione, she has never been scared of him. In OOTP there are several occasions when Hermione is a little scared of Harry.

Yes she is, but nevertheless she carries on and even more fiercely as time passes. Ron gets credit for doing such things (as does Harry), why not Hermione? It would be one thing if this stopped her from saying what she wanted to say, but it didn't. He wanted to shake Hermione, but he didn't. Wanting to do something and actually doing it are two very different things.

The "you're not ugly" line is what a friend would say to another friend. It does not indicate an attraction. If he was attracted wouldn't it have crossed through his mind at this time?

Technically, we are not in his mind at that point. Besides that, whoever said it did indicate an attraction? I just liked the comment because before the Order of the Phoenix came out, people were arguing that Harry would not go out with Hermione because he thought she was ugly. This book put an end to that nonsense. Hey maybe Harry never gets romantically interested in Hermione but it will not be on the account that he thinks she is ugly.

Ron and Hermione are a lot like Lily and James.

No, they are not. Lily and James were not friends and Ron did not nearly have the confidence (and arrogance) that James did. In fact, James is a direct contradiction of the typical teenager runs and hides when they are attracted to someone. James was not nervous in front of Lily, but he was bothered by the fact that Lily was not interested in him. Considering that was their fifth year, it took a while before Lily went out with James. Had to make changes to his character. Classical_Wizar, Ron did ruffle his hair like James but not to attract Hermione, but some third year Hufflepuffs, probably girls.

[Heatherhobbit]

I don't understand what FlyingPhoenix said about Hermione being a 3rd year hufflepuff. What does that have to do with what I was saying about the Hermione/Ron, Lily/James comparison?

[Classical_Wizar]

I don't understand what FlyingPhoenix said about Hermione being a 3rd year hufflepuff. What does that have to do with what I was saying about the Hermione/Ron, Lily/James comparison?yeah i'm confused about that one too.

[FlyingPhoenix]

JKR said that she sacrified Dean's background for Neville's because Neville's is more important to the central plot. With two books left and the focus on Harry's fight with Voldemort, JKR would not make Ginny's romance with Dean a huge plot unless Dean is going to defeat Voldemort along with Ginny's help. Your D/G ship is just wishful thinking, Hawk! If JKR was writing D/G, why didn't she just develop this in book 5?

Because book6 is called HBP thats why. Right, Neville is more important as Dean's background but this don't say that Dean can't be the HBP. There is no where said the HBP will be the guy who defead Voldemort, is no where said that the HBP have to bemore important as Neville. All he needs is to be interesting in book 6 and if I get it right the whole blood term fits there pretty nicely.

There must be a reason why JKR ever planned to give Dean such a background story, why Dean didn't or don't know he is a halfblood. It seems to be important to the plot itself. At JKR's site you can see already in PS/SS she planned to bring Dean more in this story but didn't so, why? Because all this isn't needed if its only in book6 important, if only there Dean plays such a part. Bringing Ginny back is even another aspect what let the idea Dean is HBP to be very real.

that Dean's father, who had never told his wife what he was because he wanted to protect her, got himself killed by Death Eaters when he refused to join them.

However I personally don't think its Dean but someone who is already dead.

I don't understand what FlyingPhoenix said about Hermione being a 3rd year hufflepuff. What does that have to do with what I was saying about the Hermione/Ron, Lily/James comparison?

You said Ron does this thing with his hair to attract Hermione so I said Hermione must have been a third year Hufflepuff then even to do so like you said.

[jacEjen]

I had no idea that Hermione is a third year Hufflepuff. Really, I should reread the books if something like that slipped through my eye's.

What do you mean "Really, I should reread the books if something like that slipped through my eye's."? By saying someone reminds you of someone else doesn't mean that you see that person as an exact copy of them.

[sone]

yeah i'm confused about that one too.

Did you read my post Classical_Wizar? It explains what she is talking about. Now I was thinking about Ron being made a prefect. Out of all the surprises in the Order of the Phoenix, this was one I was the least surprised by. I had very little to no concern at all about Harry being a prefect simply because I thought Harry would have something more significant in mind. I feel the lesson is far deeper and more relevant than that.

Harry in my opinion was not made a prefect because the authorial intent was for Harry to learn what leadership really is and show the reader how she the author views and respects leadership. Being a leader is not a badge and you are not even rewarded the honor strictly because you do the best in class or follow the rules. Leadership is a burden and a great responsibility. While Harry did not receive the badge, he was still considered a leader by not only his own house but by other houses as well. He was teaching the prefects and some of the seventh year students. He would of never understood this if he was made a prefect. He would assume the badge is what gave him power or any authority. He found he was made leader based on what he had done and later on, how capable and competent of a teacher he really was (a very surprising and rare quality).

If you look at Ron, he pointed to his badge (or his title) as his symbol of authority. He didn't understand it is not the badge that gives you power, it is you that gives the badge power. It is one of the reasons why Ron couldn't stand up to his brothers. His brothers have little to no respect for the prefect badge. Ron already does not get alot of confidence from Fred and George on his own and that badge doesn't carry anymore weight. Then why would they respect Harry if he was a prefect? Because they respect and admire Harry and that is what makes the prefect badge respectable to them. You saw how easily he got them to stop messing around with Smith. I think Ron may get it right the second time around.

When Umbridge says she is the Senior Undersecretary to the Minister for Magic and Headmistress and High Inquisitor of Hogwarts, it sounds weak and rather foolish. There is no respect for the position because there is no respect for the person who has the position. Dumbledore carries a great respect from anybody that knows him, so when they say he is Headmaster of Hogwarts, the name now means something, it is respected because the person behind the position is respected.

Also we see how ineffectively Ron and Hermione work as a team due to their disagreements on responsibility to their position. While with Harry and Hermione, we see just how effectively they work as a team even though one is a prefect and the other is not and how often they also disagree. It is not the position that makes it work, it is people who have that position that make it work.

[maeve]

FlyingPheonix...you're right he didn't shake her, but he wanted to. Besides, if he would have hurt her, Ron probably would have knocked his teeth out.

D*mn right he would!

[Dominique]

And if shaking someone means that there's a spark...I don't want a boyfriend.

He didn't shake her. He never hurt her. And thinking about it isn't wrong -- there's no thought police, after all; this ain't 1984.

Besides, if he would have hurt her, Ron probably would have knocked his teeth out.

The same guy who said things to Hermione that were so mean that Hermione looked as though Ron had slapped her? Whatever Harry was thinking, I gather from Hermione's reaction that Ron's words to her in GoF hurt her far worse.

Ron and Hermione are a lot like Lily and James.

How? James was an arrogant prat with a cruel streak a mile wide. He was a complete and utter bully who hung people upside down and wanted to show their underwear to the world -- for fun. How is James anything like Ron, who is courageous and fiercely loyal and far from the bullying prat we saw in the Pensieve scene?

Furthermore, how are J/L anything like R/Hr? James and Lily weren't even friends. Lily could not stand the sight of him -- whereas Ron and Hermione are the best of friends who simply have an abrasive way of communicating. One comparison does not a parallel make.

Lastly, if comparisons equal true love... there's this one scene in CoS where Ginny strongly reminds Harry of Dobby... so I'd be careful using that particular argument :D.

Also, please, please, please edit your posts to add new thoughts instead of posting several times in a row. It clutters up the thread and wastes bandwith. Thanks.

And an aside to Epiphany, should s/he pop into this thread: hi! *waves* I'm also from the Netherlands :).

[Nathaniel]

Esicardi1) Blackmailing Rita Skeeter - This was a poor choice because Rita is now a formidable enemy. As Gily ann mentioned, all Rita has to do is register as an animagus and Rita is off the hook. Rita threatens Hermione in book 5 ("just you wait"), which is eerily similar to Snape threatening MWPP in the pensieve scene. It is Hermione's fault, not Harry's, that Rita could be after them.

Look at what Rita Skeeter did to Hermione. Anyone would do the same thing if they had to go through the **** Hermione did thanks to Rita.

2) The DA Coin - Hermione makes these fake galleons which is basically counterfeit money and she warns everyone not to spend them. We then learn that Harry throws down a galleon on the table at Madam Puddifoots. Could this be a fake galleon? What would the repercussions be if the Goblins found out there was counterfeit money floating around? The Order is trying to unite the goblins. Could Hermione's forging money bring a rift with the Goblins. Again, this was a poor choice and not thought through carefully.

I'm pretty sure that this was not the fake galleon. I mean, he still had it after that, didn't he?

3) Umbridge - Yes, Umbridge was very evil and I had no sympathy for her; however, what gives Hermione the moral right to have the power of life and death over Umbridge? She is being similar to Umbridge here, in that the end justifies the means. Umbridge could have been killed by Hermione's actions. This is very cruel and ruthless on Hermione's part and possibly could have landed her in Azkaban. Again, she did not think this through carefully (bad choice). This storyline could come back in later books.

Actually, Umbridge was ready to take this right into her own hands. What exactly would you have done if your closest friend was about to be hit by the Cruciatus curse? I know I would've followed Hermione's example. It solved a lot, and Umbridge wasn't killed, so it works out nicely. Hermione is very smart and clever. She does what she does for reasons, whether they are made clear to us or not.

4) Marrietta - While Marrietta was completely at fault for being the sneak, Hermione's punishment was very cruel, imo. I can see a short term jinx for a week or so, but she still has marks on her face after a couple of months. What is Marrietta is completely disfigured? Again, Hermione makes a morally ambiguous decision. She could have created another problem, as Marrietta's mom works for the MoM. What if her mother wants to check into this fully?

No, the punishment was just. Besides, Marrietta's memory was wiped of that particular memory, so there wouldn't be much for her mom to look in to, would there? Besides, the jinx was sort of like an insurance... no... a protection policy. They'd want to know the culprit who ratted them out. I think Marrietta was cruel, stupid, and, in her own way, bad. She deserved it.

5) The House elves - While Hermione's intentions are wonderful, she keeps going about this the wrong way and she is being disrespectful of Dumbledore. These elves belong to DD and Hogwarts. It is not Hermione's place to free them without DD's permission; that is extremely arrogant on her part. Now, she has alienated the elves.

This is one that I have to agree with you on. Why can't she give up? The house-elves don't want to be free. In this, Hermione is being stupid.





BTW- H/Hr shippers... VOTE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Everyone vote for H/Hr, and quickly! R/Hr is catching up! (God, I wish I could vote more than once. I would, that's for sure...)

[FoxyDoxy]

Ron and Hermione are a lot like Lily and James.
So why does everyone always tell Harry he's like James?

Besides, if he would have hurt her, Ron probably would have knocked his teeth out.
Ron was very quiet in that part I'd almost forgotten he was even there- except when he 'rounded' on Hermione and agreed totally with Harry.(not exactly BF like)

[Earendil]

FlyingPheonix...you're right he didn't shake her, but he wanted to. Besides, if he would have hurt her, Ron probably would have knocked his teeth out.

Why? Since when has Ron shown himself inclined to stand up to Harry when Harry is in a towering temper? And was Ron even on Hermione's side in that argument? No, he was fluctuating between Harry and Hermione, but for the most part backing Harry up.

These are a few of her actions that can be considered poor choices. Hermione is wavering on the borderline between what is easy and what is right, and while her intentions are good, her actions show otherwise.

I'm a little confused as to how any of the choices you listed indicate that Hermione is wavering between what is easy and what is right. The easy way out in any of those instances is to simply ignore the problem and not take action, yet Hermione is the only person willing (or able) to take initiative and create a solution. And at any rate, there is no 'right' or 'wrong' in most of the cases listed. What was the 'right' course of action in dealing with Umbridge, for instance? Let her perform the Cruciatus Curse on Harry?

I don't expect Hermione to be perfect. She may be the brightest witch in the year, but that does not make her infallible. However, she is frequently the voice of reason and good judgement in the series, and by pointing out all the things that could go amiss as a result of her decisions (but have not, or probably will not) doesn't convince me that she is wrong for Harry.

Harry in my opinion was not made a prefect because the authorial intent was for Harry to learn what leadership really is and show the reader how she the author views and respects leadership. Being a leader is not a badge and you are not even rewarded the honor strictly because you do the best in class or follow the rules. Leadership is a burden and a great responsibility. While Harry did not receive the badge, he was still considered a leader by not only his own house but by other houses as well. He was teaching the prefects and some of the seventh year students. He would of never understood this if he was made a prefect. He would assume the badge is what gave him power or any authority. He found he was made leader based on what he had done and later on, how capable and competent of a teacher he really was (a very surprising and rare quality).

Interesting and very well said, sone. :tu:

[Mami]

One of the other reasons is having things in common, naturally, but what I fail to see for the mean time is that from 5 books, Harry has not shown any physical attraction in the way of romance towards Hermione. This can be argued about Ginny too. <snip>

How it would support the H/G ship is just that; physical attraction and so far, we’ve gotten not a single negative reaction from Harry towards Ginny, and the same could be said of Hermione in which many here claim Harry says, “You’re not ugly” statement to the full hilt. But why would he say that to his best friend in the first place---to say that she is? Or far from attractive? You just don’t say those things to a girl and your friend. I believe Jo worded it very well, “You’re not ugly”, is a very friendly reaction to defend your friend’s insecurity that they may not feel attractive.

What I feel that you fail to see is that although I agree with what you say; that friendship and compatibility are needed to establish a relationship. Is that it is important (like I said,)to have the first establishment of physical and sexual attraction, the rest just comes……............

GryffindorGr, I agree with most of your post. Harry can start feeling physical attraction to Ginny, but then, he can start feeling it also for Hermione. I don't agree that Ginny has been described very positive, I would say the descriptions of her are very neutral, I certainly never caught that. She is describe as little, with red hair, and I think that's it. I would believe more in Harry-developing-physical-atraction for Ginny scenario is she at one point had being described as being very pretty, or at least as "Ron's pretty little sister". Harry has certainly describe girls like this, like Hermione in the Yule Ball, Parvati and Padma, Fleur, all girls to which he didn't feel any atraction but still objectively, he found them pretty. So no, I don't think Ginny not being described in a negative way means that Harry founds her pretty or feels attraction to her. I think she is such a non-entity to him that he hasn't even bother to look twice at her to see if she is pretty or not. He hasn't told us directly, that's for sure.

While love can grow from physical attraction, love can also grow from long time friendship. There are many many stories of friends that felt nothing but friendship throughout the years only to wake up one day and realized they were in love. So no need to feel physical attraction "first".
Harry may not be in love with Hermione right now, but she occupies most of her thoughts, more than any other person really. He thinks about her when he goes to the MOM for his hearing, when he is taking his OWL's, when he's about to do something reckless, he even dreams about her. He expects a lot from her, showed by not feeling sorry for Hedwig pecking her hands, feeling angry when she thought she didn't defend her against Lavender, expecting her to follow him blindly to the MOM to rescue Sirius, which she did do, although not blindly. He also somehow manage to remember she wanted a particular book and got it for her on Christmas.

Ginny in the other hand, changed a lot, started to talk in front of him, made seeker for Gryffindor team, and still, he couldn't care less. He doesn't think about her, and if Ginny were to dissapear one day, I don't think he would
notice.

Ah, now I see where your thinking is going….in GoF when Ron was angry….well, he’s angry, so why would Hermione stick with Ron if Ron needed to get his head straightened out?

I know, like I said before, I think she's loyal to both of them, although that one time she sided with Harry.

[Nathaniel]

Sorry to go off topic here, but I need to advertise real quick:

I posted a thread about Atlantis. It's in the MoM section, Department of International Magical Cooperation, in the Muggle History Division. It's called "Do you think Atlantis really existed?"

Check it out! Oh... and... uh... I want to put a poll on it. How do you do that?



P.S.- We need voters for the H/Hr ship now! Vote, and quick, before we're thrown back into the lesser part of the two. Take a different name and vote. It doesn't matter... just vote for H/Hr, and quickly! :scared:

[DadOfHermyGinny]

P.S.- We need voters for the H/Hr ship now! Vote, and quick, before we're thrown back into the lesser part of the two. Take a different name and vote. It doesn't matter... just vote for H/Hr, and quickly!

Will you please stop this?

People can vote for whoever they'd like. JKR is going to complete the series as she sees fit. The poll is a barometer of how people feel on this issue - nothing else.

[Mami]

Originally Posted by Heatherhobbit
FlyingPheonix...you're right he didn't shake her, but he wanted to. Besides, if he would have hurt her, Ron probably would have knocked his teeth out.

Harry didn't shake her. And I didn't see Ron defending her, actually, he was backing Harry up against her. I have never seen Ron defending Hermione from Harry, although I have seen Harry defend her from Ron. In POA, Harry tells Ron "can you give her a break?", when Ron was being mean to her and she was crying. Ron's answer? "no".

[Nathaniel]

Will you please stop this?

People can vote for whoever they'd like. JKR is going to complete the series as she sees fit. The poll is a barometer of how people feel on this issue - nothing else.


I didn't realize anyone would take me seriously!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes... I know... I said it twice (oh wow, that's a lot).

I am a faithfull H/Hr shipper. Let them vote for whom they want. It's a joke, okay? Just a (hopeful, willing, pleading...) joke. :D

[esicardi]

Great post Earendil! :clap:
Exactly my feelings about GillyAnn and Prongs,Sr list!
I have to go now, but I will be back later.

[Godrics_Heiress]

From the Love Thread version 18

Actually Godric's Heiress Dean isn't muggle born. Dean's father was a wizard who was killed for refusing to join the Death Eaters, therefore Dean is half blood

Oops. Thanks for pointing that out, Hawk. I should have meant muggle-raised; thus Arthur would love him for that. :D

ETA:
I think I would like a H/G pairing more, but a H/L pairing might be better for Harry. A H/Hr pairing is kind of incestual.

Why do you keep pointing this out? This is your prerogative and I suggest the you rather stick to stating facts and back them up. Nothing in canon indicates Harry and Hermione see each other as siblings. And "incest" is far too radical a word to use to describe a Harry/Hermione relationship. It's derogatory to their character integrity. Use your words wisely next time.

[Heatherhobbit]

Yay! We're back!

[Hulk]

Not directly related to the shipping war, but after finding out the fact of "Mark Evans = nobody", I have some observations:

1) When a lot of people think "Well, this is JKR, she couldn't create an Evans without some purpose", she actually didn't give much thought of him. This can also happen to all the symbolisms, foreshadowing or writing-techniques we fans 'recongnized'. Maybe we are just reading too much sometimes.

2) JKR seems to become more willing to give us real and solid information when the series is coming to the end. She killed the D/Hr ship, revealed the title of book 6, and now the truth of poor Mark.

[Mami]

Not directly related to the shipping war, but after finding out the fact of "Mark Evans = nobody", I have some observations:

1) When a lot of people think "Well, this is JKR, she couldn't create an Evans without some purpose", she actually didn't give much thought of him. This can also happen to all the symbolisms, foreshadowing or writing-techniques we fans 'recongnized'. Maybe we are just reading too much sometimes.

2) JKR seems to become more willing to give us real and solid information when the series is coming to the end. She killed the D/Hr ship, revealed the title of book 6, and now the truth of poor Mark.

Yay! Thanks God we are back!

Exactly my feelings. Sometimes, shippers tend to look to much to every little detail, thinking that it may has a purpose, especially when the ship doesn't have much to go on. The Mark Evans issue indicates that sometimes, a banana is just a banana. We should keep this in mind.

[FoxyDoxy]

My mum has a saying I think applies here- 'If you hear hoves don't think it's a Zebra- It's nearly always a horse'

[GryffindorGr]

Yay! Thanks God we are back!

Exactly my feelings. Sometimes, shippers tend to look to much to every little detail, thinking that it may has a purpose, especially when the ship doesn't have much to go on. The Mark Evans issue indicates that sometimes, a banana is just a banana. We should keep this in mind.
Exactly my sentiments.....

Shippers do tend to look into things too much :D And who better than which ship? LOL. *all* ships except perhaps R/hr. I think they're about the only ones who don't look into things too much except the "obvious".
by Hulk
1) When a lot of people think "Well, this is JKR, she couldn't create an Evans without some purpose", she actually didn't give much thought of him. This can also happen to all the symbolisms, foreshadowing or writing-techniques we fans 'recongnized'. Maybe we are just reading too much sometimes.
No kidding. But hey it's for fun...thats why all the essays and stuff!

by Mami
While love can grow from physical attraction, love can also grow from long time friendship. There are many many stories of friends that felt nothing but friendship throughout the years only to wake up one day and realized they were in love. So no need to feel physical attraction "first".
You're going by people's experience...and you know this? It's very romantic!
Harry may not be in love with Hermione right now, but she occupies most of her thoughts, more than any other person really. He thinks about her when he goes to the MOM for his hearing, when he is taking his OWL's, when he's about to do something reckless, he even dreams about her.
Sounds like you already know that it's going to be H/hr!
The way you go on...why, it's rather romantic with H/hr already! :blush:

Ginny in the other hand, changed a lot, started to talk in front of him, made seeker for Gryffindor team, and still, he couldn't care less. He doesn't think about her, and if Ginny were to dissapear one day, I don't think he would notice
Harsh. Like if she died and left he wouldn't care? That's a rather harsh depiction of what you make Harry. Even if Ginny isn't his love interest, I would think that he cared very much. You make him sound unfeeling.

[FoxyDoxy]

Harsh. Like if she died and left he wouldn't care? That's a rather harsh depiction of what you make Harry. Even if Ginny isn't his love interest, I would think that he cared very much. You make him sound unfeeling.
I agree he is a sypathetic person and I doubt he'd want to see anyone suffer- he felt sorry for Snape remember. Even after he'd insulted Lily.
I don't think he's as bothered about the ins and outs of Ginnys life on the same level as he cares about Hermione but he does, to some extent care.

[GryffindorGr]

I agree he is a sypathetic person and I doubt he'd want to see anyone suffer- he felt sorry for Snape remember. Even after he'd insulted Lily.
I don't think he's as bothered about the ins and outs of Ginnys life on the same level as he cares about Hermione but he does, to some extent care.
Well, thank you very much...at least you can admit that he does care about people and would notice.

As for ins and outs of Ginny's life, the same with Hermione if I may say so myself. He didn't know that she was writing Krum for awhile. Nor does he know anything about Hermione's parents. So if she started dating, it would be a surprise to him. In fact, she would probably tell Ginny first before going to Harry and Ron.

[MagicianGirl]

Ginny in the other hand, changed a lot, started to talk in front of him, made seeker for Gryffindor team, and still, he couldn't care less. He doesn't think about her, and if Ginny were to dissapear one day, I don't think he would
notice.
LOL! Don't be so sure. Harry already proved that if Ginny were to disappear that he would notice. He doesn't want her dead, in fact, he was desperate for her to live. Ginny being taken in the Chamber was the worst day of his entire life he hardly knew her then.

[MoodyMania]

LOL! Don't be so sure. Harry already proved that if Ginny were to disappear that he would notice. He doesn't want her dead, in fact, he was desperate for her to live. Ginny being taken in the Chamber was the worst day of his entire life he hardly knew her then.
To tell you the truth I don't think it was because Ginny was taken into the CoS that it was the worst day of his entire life. He thought she was probably dead already. What made it the worst was that Hogwarts was going to shut down and he would have to go live with the Dursleys full time.

[HermioneWitch28]

Originally written by Heatherhobbit . Hermione is more worried about Ron and Harry than she is about Krum because they are her best friends for 3 years and Krum is a guy that she's known for a few months. Hermione isn't impressed that Krum saved her, because she knows that she was never in any danger.

Then why would she be impressed that Harry saved Ron and Gabrielle?

[HermioneWitch28]

I can see that JK is probably going to put Hermione and Ron together, and that is fine, but my personal preference would be a Harry and Hermione pairing, to me it would work a lot better, so i am going to keep looking for clues, and hope, even if it is false hope that it is Harry and Hermione, oh well what are you going to do when you get so wrapped up in a series like this, I'm acting like it's so real and important, like it's me or someone I know, kinda silly but oh well, it's fun to get so wrapped up in this discussion, this fantasy world that I desperately wish was real!! *grumbles under breath* Oh well, sorry I went off on a super long tangent! oops! Giggle!

[MagicianGirl]

To tell you the truth I don't think it was because Ginny was taken into the CoS that it was the worst day of his entire life. He thought she was probably dead already. What made it the worst was that Hogwarts was going to shut down and he would have to go live with the Dursleys full time.
Not quite. He already contemplated about Hogwarts being closed down and spending his years with the Dursley's when Hermione was Petrified. Also, not only was it the worst day of his entire life, it was also the worst he has ever felt . Those are extreme emotions for someone who won't notice IF Ginny disappears. Another canon evidence that Harry will "notice" IF Ginny disappears was when she was not going to be expelled. He felt warm, glorious sweeping relief when she's not being expelled the same emotion that he felt when he thought that Hermione wasn't dead. After all, how else would he get together with Ginny if she's not at Hogwarts :p

[jordmundt6]

She and Ron were both impressed and critical of Harry's "acting the hero." I think the more interesting question is--why did Hermione brush off Krum's love confession to stare at the lake? Herons talk often aobut her concern for Ron/jealousy toward Fleur--but we know that BOTH she and Ron knew that the hostages were in no danger. So, who's the x-factor--Harry. She was concerned or preoccupied with Harry and was too busy cheering for him to be drawn back into conversation with Krum. This actually reminds me somewhat of PS during the Hufflepuff match. Hermione and Ron are both concerned about Harry, but Ron is sidetracked (very understandably) by Malfoy's goading. Ron and Neville get into a rather significant scrum with Draco, Vinny, and Greg. Hermione--busy watching Harry wth her fingers crossed for luck--doesn't notice this, even when all five are rolling around punching and kicking one another right under her seat. Just my contribution for the moment.

About Mark Evans--I'm glad the record's been set straight, but I think the next edition of OotP should have him rechristened Mark Fubster, the Colonel's great-nephew, or something.

MagicianGirl--Careful there. Harry did experience relief when he found that Ginny wasn't going to be expelled "warm, sweeping, glorious relief" but the relief Harry felt when found out that Hermione hadn't been killed was so powerful that he felt slightly dizzy.

[MoodyMania]

When Hermione was petrified there was talk that the school might have to be closed down. But when Ginny went into the CoS he heard the announcement that were being sent back home the next day. It was no longer just possible...it was now a reality.

And of course he was glad that Ginny didn't die or get expelled. He is not a mean person but is very caring about what happens to other. And she is his best friends little sister. Using what you say the Harry should be starting a relationship with Fluer's little sister any day now. Harry is just into rescuing people. That's how he sees his mission in life at the moment. He will never sit still and allow others to be hurt or killed.

[Mami]

You're going by people's experience...and you know this? It's very romantic!
Sounds like you already know that it's going to be H/hr!
The way you go on...why, it's rather romantic with H/hr already! :blush:

Yes, I have experienced this, but it is not relevant to the discussion. I just wanted to point out that it is possible for a firendship relationship to develop into a romantic/sexual relationship. So physical attraction doesn't have to come "first". And yes, I think is very romantic :blush:
Also, no, I have no idea what is going to happen. I just state what I think.

Harsh. Like if she died and left he wouldn't care? That's a rather harsh depiction of what you make Harry. Even if Ginny isn't his love interest, I would think that he cared very much. You make him sound unfeeling.

I didn't mean to sound harsh. He cares about her the same way he cares about all the Weasleys. But really, Harry only really cares about two people, Ron and Hermione. So far, he hasn't show any interest in anyone else apart from Sirius. Ginny virtually disappeared for two books, and Harry never wondered were she was. In OoTP, it took him a while to realize that she now talks in front of him. And with all the things that Ginny did, still he wasn't very impressed with her. So what else does she have to do for him to notice her? I would say let Ginny be her own character, independent of Harry. If Ginny still secretely pining for Harry, it seems like she is doing a lot for him to notice her, and he is not caring much.

ETA:

LOL! Don't be so sure. Harry already proved that if Ginny were to disappear that he would notice. He doesn't want her dead, in fact, he was desperate for her to live. Ginny being taken in the Chamber was the worst day of his entire life he hardly knew her then.

It was the worst day of his life up to that point. After all, he did forget about Ginny's possesion, didn't he? So how does this indicates that he cared much about her?

[sone]

He doesn't want her dead, in fact, he was desperate for her to live. Ginny being taken in the Chamber was the worst day of his entire life he hardly knew her then.

Of course he does not want her to die. Harry never hated Ginny, he just was not romantically interested in her and still isn't. Ginny being taken to the Chamber was not the worst day in his life or should I say, only Ginny being taken to the Chamber was not what made it the worst day of his life. People make too much of that. His best friend's sister is going to die (people make too little of that). Best friend whose family liked him so much which was a new experience to Harry. Hermione is petrified, Hagrid is in Azkaban, Dumbledore has been suspended, removed from the school and let us not forget the school may possibly be closed and Harry is going to have to stay at the Dursley's. Worse part there is nothing Harry thinks he can do about any of it. Harry more than anything hates feeling helpless.

[FoxyDoxy]

As for ins and outs of Ginny's life, the same with Hermione if I may say so myself. He didn't know that she was writing Krum for awhile. Nor does he know anything about Hermione's parents. So if she started dating, it would be a surprise to him. In fact, she would probably tell Ginny first before going to Harry and Ron.
True he's a little too self absorbed to always notice stuff and ahe probably would tell ginny stuff first but on the whole he does seem more interested when hermione reveals something. For example it seems that he asked hermione or atleast discussed how she fixed her hair for the ball. She 'confessed' to him so it sounds like he did ask (wow! A boy asking something like that- pinch me!)
Conversely he finds out Ginny's dating Dean and he barely bats an eye-lid. Actually Did he notice Ginny at the ball? *checks* just that she was dancing with nev- nowt about how she looks!

[FlyingPhoenix]

What do you mean "Really, I should reread the books if something like that slipped through my eye's."? By saying someone reminds you of someone else doesn't mean that you see that person as an exact copy of them.

All right, I get that my mind works bit different as yours so I think I have to be more plain and I think I can't be more as this with quoting the scene:

' he concluded modestly, sweeping his hair back quite unnecessarily so that it looked interestingly windswept and glancing around to see whether the people nearest
to them — a bunch of gossiping third-year Hufflepuff girls — had heard him. 'And then, when Chambers came at me about five minutes later — What?' Ron asked, having stopped mid-sentence at the look on Harry's face. 'Why are you grinning?'
'I'm not,' said Harry quickly, and looked down at his Transfiguration notes, attempting to straighten his lace. The truth was that Ron had just reminded Harry forcibly of another Gryffindor Quidditch player who had once sat rumpling his hair under this very tree. 'I'm just glad we won, that's all.'

Lets compare it with this scene:
. Harry noticed that his father had a habit of rumpling up his hair as though to keep it from getting Loo tidy, and he also kept looking over at the girls by the waters edge.

and

'Leave him ALONE!'
James and Sirius looked round. James's free hand immediately jumped to his hair.
It was one of the girls from the lake edge. She had thick, dark red hair that fell to her shoulders, and startlingly green almond-shaped eyes — Harry's eyes.
Harry's mother.

Now comes this statement:

Harry even smiles because when Ron is telling them about the Quidditch game he is reminded of what he saw in Snapes Worst Memory. Ron was fluffing his hair and talking about Quidditch just like James was. And James was trying to get Lily's attention, but instead he infuriated her. Just like Ron does to Hermione

You see now what I mean? That to let Ron act to Hermione like James did to Lily, Hermione must have been a third year Hufflepuff. Ron wasn't interest if Hermione looks, he didn't it for Hermione to show by her off but because of that Hufflepuff girls. So no there is no R/Hr and J/L parallel not if you don't try to twist facts arround or says "It's Harry's POV thats why it seems to be as if Ron do that to impress the third years though in truth he did it to impress Hermione, only Hermione."

I hope I cleared that up.

[FoxyDoxy]

"It's Harry's POV thats why it seems to be as if Ron do that to impress the third years though in truth he did it to impress Hermione, only Hermione."
See the prospect of R/Hr hasn't even entered Harrys head- can't be that 'obvious' then!

[squirpy]

Heatherhobbit: I noticed that Hermione was a bit frightened of Harry at the beginning of OotP as well.

She was afraid he'd start yelling more. But she's never afraid to argue back with Ron, even when she knows that he's going to yell. But Ginny just talked right back to him from the start in book 5.

[Bee]

For some reason, the H/Hr shippers seem to be coming out victorious... that's totally wierd! I thought we were the minority.

These are my reasons for being an H/Hr shipper as opposed to a R/Hr shipper (and then all the Ginny/Neville/Luna things... I don't really care what happens there!):

1) I think my biggest reason is I'm just not that huge of a Ron fan. I like him fine, I just don't have the same warm feeling in my heart for him as Harry and Hermione. So for that random reason I would like to see Harry and Hermione together instead of Ron and Hermione.

2) I don't see the "sparks" everyone is seeing between Ron and Hermione. I do think that Ron has a little crush on Hermione, but I haven't seen much of Hermione liking him back as I have seen her just being courteous, and respectful towards Ron's obvious feelings!

3) and I don't think the movies can be used as effective hints towards ANY relationships. Alfonso Cuaron obviously thinks Ron and Hermione will get together, but I highly doubt Jo Rowling told him one way or another, so I'm not going to go into the movies saying anything, because... I don't believe them :D!

4) last but not least, Jo Rowling has given numerous hints and pretty much flat-out said Ron and Hermione will be together. And following the pattern of her other comments, I think she's throwing us for a loop. Ron and Hermione will NOT get together, she's tricking us!


and for my final comment... I've been throwing out random theories here, and don't take any of them seriously, as I have no idea what I'm talking about most of the time.

:D Happy Chatting! :D

[Heatherhobbit]

Well, I think the whole Mark Evans fiasco actually applies well to our shipper debate. Not every little thing is important or even relevant. Sometimes we just have to go with the obvious!!! Ron and Hermione. The actors and directors thinks so, a majority of the fans think so, and JKR herself has said that Harry and Hermione are very platonic friends.


If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, chances are it probably is a duck.


Stop reading into all the little things happening between Hermione and Harry and start paying attention to the big things happening with Hermione and Ron.

Faithful R/HR shipper.

[Charmed Cheese]

Yes, I have experienced this, but it is not relevant to the discussion. I just wanted to point out that it is possible for a firendship relationship to develop into a romantic/sexual relationship. So physical attraction doesn't have to come "first". And yes, I think is very romantic :blush:

Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will.

Honestly, these arguements about how true love comes to be is pointless. Sometimes it's friendship, sometimes it's attraction. It doesn't get us any further in proving our ship.

It only shows that there's a possibility of happening.

I didn't mean to sound harsh. He cares about her the same way he cares about all the Weasleys. But really, Harry only really cares about two people, Ron and Hermione. So far, he hasn't show any interest in anyone else apart from Sirius. Ginny virtually disappeared for two books, and Harry never wondered were she was. In OoTP, it took him a while to realize that she now talks in front of him. And with all the things that Ginny did, still he wasn't very impressed with her. So what else does she have to do for him to notice her? I would say let Ginny be her own character, independent of Harry. If Ginny still secretely pining for Harry, it seems like she is doing a lot for him to notice her, and he is not caring much.

More impressed than he was before. Honestly, he still doesn't know very well.

Harry wasn't that attached to Hermione when he first met her and in GoF I recollect him think how boring it was hanging out with her. Quite a difference from recognizing her loyalty and solidarity. Sometimes even when you know someone, you don't realize how much you appreciate and like them.

If you believe Harry is in love with Hermione without even noticing it despite his close friendship with her, why is it so hard to believe that Harry doesn't notice Ginny?

Harry's conveniently oblivious to right things...

[MoodyMania]

People would be happy to notice big things happening between Ron and Hermione. But there just aren't any coming from Hermione without twisting things up. So as soon as there are I'm sure people will.

And as far as obvious goes, what is obvious to you as a R/Hr shipper may not be obvious to others. Many people see clues/evidence based on their ships. Not sure if that's what you do because you usually don't include any canon evidence to support it either way.

But I will agree with you that Jo did say Harry and Hermione's relationship was platonic...5 years ago. Things have moved on since then posibly. We will all just have to wait and see.

[jaedi]

For some reason, the H/Hr shippers seem to be coming out victorious... that's totally wierd! I thought we were the minority.

These are my reasons for being an H/Hr shipper as opposed to a R/Hr shipper (and then all the Ginny/Neville/Luna things... I don't really care what happens there!):

1) I think my biggest reason is I'm just not that huge of a Ron fan. I like him fine, I just don't have the same warm feeling in my heart for him as Harry and Hermione. So for that random reason I would like to see Harry and Hermione together instead of Ron and Hermione.

2) I don't see the "sparks" everyone is seeing between Ron and Hermione. I do think that Ron has a little crush on Hermione, but I haven't seen much of Hermione liking him back as I have seen her just being courteous, and respectful towards Ron's obvious feelings!

3) and I don't think the movies can be used as effective hints towards ANY relationships. Alfonso Cuaron obviously thinks Ron and Hermione will get together, but I highly doubt Jo Rowling told him one way or another, so I'm not going to go into the movies saying anything, because... I don't believe them :D!

4) last but not least, Jo Rowling has given numerous hints and pretty much flat-out said Ron and Hermione will be together. And following the pattern of her other comments, I think she's throwing us for a loop. Ron and Hermione will NOT get together, she's tricking us!


and for my final comment... I've been throwing out random theories here, and don't take any of them seriously, as I have no idea what I'm talking about most of the time.

:D Happy Chatting! :D

Wow, you just stated what has been running through my mind ever since I encountered this topic! Those are most of my main reasons for believing in H/Hr and not R/Hr. I also would like to add that Harry seems to rely on Hermione much more than Ron does (besides homework). Harry also thinks about Hermione more than any other girl, even if it is not in a romantic way.

[Charmed Cheese]

For some reason, the H/Hr shippers seem to be coming out victorious... that's totally wierd! I thought we were the minority.

Don't start taking that victory lap just yet.

1) I think my biggest reason is I'm just not that huge of a Ron fan. I like him fine, I just don't have the same warm feeling in my heart for him as Harry and Hermione. So for that random reason I would like to see Harry and Hermione together instead of Ron and Hermione.

So you have a bias then. This is one of the primary reasons I find it hard to swallow H/Hr arguments: it's all about Harry and Hermione and there's little regard for Ron.

I love Harry, Ron, Hermione and Ginny. I can't choose a favourite, so really, I'm not going to be upset if Harry ends up with Hermione; I love them both. However, I don't see the clues leading in that direction.

2) I don't see the "sparks" everyone is seeing between Ron and Hermione. I do think that Ron has a little crush on Hermione, but I haven't seen much of Hermione liking him back as I have seen her just being courteous, and respectful towards Ron's obvious feelings!

There's nothing Rowling can do about that.

4) last but not least, Jo Rowling has given numerous hints and pretty much flat-out said Ron and Hermione will be together. And following the pattern of her other comments, I think she's throwing us for a loop. Ron and Hermione will NOT get together, she's tricking us!

Rowling is a talented author and a great mystery plot weaver. However, if she's a good romance writer, she wouldn't make the mistake of using Ron as a romantic red herring. The romantic competition for a main character works best if they are either dislikable or of minor stature where the readers aren't so attached to them. :)

[FlyingPhoenix]

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, chances are it probably is a duck.

Not if its a herring who just plays to be a duck. JKR said herself she does use red-herrings just Mark Evans isn't one don't means Hermione's feeling can't be.

You see JKR said herself Fans might feel cheated thats why in OotP is something included what wasn't really neccessary (points to that little voice, Hermione jumping on Harry...) but still R/Hr shipper and of course H/G shipper will feel cheated no matter what JKR lets out her hat.

[Charmed Cheese]

Not if its a herring who just plays to be a duck. JKR said herself she does use red-herrings just Mark Evans isn't one don't means Hermione's feeling can't be.

You see JKR said herself Fans might feel cheated thats why in OotP is something included what wasn't really neccessary (points to that little voice, Hermione jumping on Harry...) but still R/Hr shipper and of course H/G shipper will feel cheated no matter what JKR lets out her hat.

And Harmonians won't?

ETA

Perhaps she was talking about Ginny's role.

Also, I wouldn't feel cheated if H/Hr ended up together. Suprised maybe, but not cheated.

[MoodyMania]

I think just about anyone whose ship does not come in will feel disappointed. But after reading only 3 iterations of this thread I think the ones that will take it the hardest will be the H/G shippers. My reason is that you really have to sell yourself on that ship because of a severe lack of canon evidence that it will, not could because any can still, come home.

[FlyingPhoenix]

And Harmonians won't?

If you are talking about me then is the answer: No.

It wouldn't matter much to me if JKR gos R/Hr or H/G route all it did mean my expection were to high what is rather a good thing, you know.

[Mami]

Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will.

Of course not. I was replying to a post by GryffindorGr when she said she thinks that a relationship should start with physical attraction first. To which I replied: 1) That Harry si not physically attracted to Ginny, and 2) That sometimes friendship comes first, and then physical attraction, which would be the case of Harry/Hermione pairing, at least, from Harry's POV.



More impressed than he was before. Honestly, he still doesn't know very well.

How he can be more impresspred now, if he was never impressed by Ginny? I'll repeat again, he forgot about her for two years after he saved her life. How do I know he forgot? She was barely mentioned in two books.

Harry wasn't that attached to Hermione when he first met her and in GoF I recollect him think how boring it was hanging out with her. Quite a difference from recognizing her loyalty and solidarity. Sometimes even when you know someone, you don't realize how much you appreciate and like them.

If you believe Harry is in love with Hermione without even noticing it despite his close friendship with her, why is it so hard to believe that Harry doesn't notice Ginny?

Harry's conveniently oblivious to right things...

I don't believe Harry is in love with Hermione at this point. I believe his feelings toward her are beginning to change, after 5 years of friendship.
It is not hard to believe that Harry doesn't notice Ginny, because we are inside his head, so if she is not in his head, it means he doesn't notice her. And she is not. Even now, that she talks to him and is a seeker, etc, he still doesn't give her that much thought.

[HermioneWitch28]

Originally Posted by Heatherhobbit

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck, chances are it probably is a duck.


Only problem, JK is tricky sometimes, things, people and animals are not as they seem,
Examples are- Snape, Scabbers, Crookshanks etc.

[Charmed Cheese]

I think just about anyone whose ship does not come in will feel disappointed. But after reading only 3 iterations of this thread I think the ones that will take it the hardest will be the H/G shippers. My reason is that you really have to sell yourself on that ship because of a severe lack of canon evidence that it will, not could because any can still, come home.

We don't have to put down characters to support our ship and we have plenty of a canon evidence.

Besides, you should be careful. If H/Hr doesn't happen you could end up eating your words.

[MoodyMania]

We don't have to put down characters to support our ship and we have plenty of a canon evidence.

Besides, you should be careful. If H/Hr doesn't happen you could end up eating your words.
Obviously you don't read all the posts. I have stated many times that I ship no one. I see all are still possible.

And I have never once put down any characters. Maybe you need to get your facts straight before trying to insult people. And if you see canon evidence for a H/G ship then more power to you. But I'm willing to bet you are in the minority that does.

[Heatherhobbit]

I won't feel cheated if Harry ends up with Hermione. But I'll have to go back and re read the books and try to figure out what I missed. I trust JKR and I know that what ever she has in store for our characters it will be nice and interesting. But I can't promise you that if Ron and Hermione end up together that I won't be in an "I told you so" kind of mood.

[Charmed Cheese]

Obviously you don't read all the posts. I have stated many times that I ship no one. I see all are still possible.

And I have never once put down any characters. Maybe you need to get your facts straight before trying to insult people. And if you see canon evidence for a H/G ship then more power to you. But I'm willing to bet you are in the minority that does.

Well, I didn't mean you individually put down any characters, but many Harmonians do. Just as many H/G's out there fell they have to sell their ship.

However, the majority of H/G shipper's see strong canon evidence. Sorry if you don't.

[GryffindorGr]

It wouldn't matter much to me if JKR gos R/Hr or H/G route all it did mean my expection were to high what is rather a good thing, you know.
Me too! I agree with you and Charmed Cheese. I love these characters: Harry, Hermione, Ron, Ginny, Luna....and if they end up Ron/Luna (I just adore this one...this is my personal favorite) but I'd fancy H/G really. I think it's adorable. As many as H/hr think that they have something going on and is adorable too, well, it's all a matter of opinion and how we read into things.

by Mami
Yes, I have experienced this, but it is not relevant to the discussion. I just wanted to point out that it is possible for a firendship relationship to develop into a romantic/sexual relationship. So physical attraction doesn't have to come "first". And yes, I think is very romantic
Also, no, I have no idea what is going to happen. I just state what I think
Oh of course, I'm glad you have no idea either because I'd just have to wonder if you know the inside scoop of who will get together! :D

And as for friendship love...eh? Maybe I'm just inexperienced but I dont like to bring personal relationships into the thread (although many of us used to probably) because it's one of the rules now that you can't do that. Well, being as these "friendship loves", there is usually an attraction first.
Maybe I'm thinking of that movie, "Sweet home Alabama" where the couple were friends since childhood and married later in life (they were attracted to eachother.)

by MoodyMania
I think just about anyone whose ship does not come in will feel disappointed. But after reading only 3 iterations of this thread I think the ones that will take it the hardest will be the H/G shippers. My reason is that you really have to sell yourself on that ship because of a severe lack of canon evidence that it will, not could because any can still, come home.
Pardon moi, but to me that didn't make any sense at all! You know why? Because R/hr shippers would feel the HURT and the H/hr shippers too--why? Because they've invested so much of their theories into this and the most of H/g shippers I know, are romantics too...but we're okay with H/hr happening....it's not a tragic thing but it's nice if Jo would write that in.
Besides, Jo is not writing a romance book, it's Harry's adventure and he's currently 15 and he's got time in the world to find his little love. It can be after Hogwarts or at 17 or next book. Who knows. You don't know and I don't know so the accusation that we'll be hit the hardest? There's a mirror somewhere here....;)

[FlyingPhoenix]

We don't have to put down characters to support our ship and we have plenty of a canon evidence.

:lol: Try to see it from my POV and you realise H/G shipper do put characters down.
As for plenty evidence, I must have missed this. All I know or saw are: Strange searching in subtext says: Flaming hair, firelight in the eyes...
Or that Harry and Ginny share a laugh, or Ginny is Super!Ginny but amazingly plain wrong in book5. Evidence look and smell different.

Besides, you should be careful. If H/Hr doesn't happen you could end up eating your words.

Who doesen't ? Just out of curiousity, who doesen't?

[sone]

We don't have to put down characters to support our ship and we have plenty of a canon evidence.

I do feel that Ginny often is unjustifiably put on a pedestal when it comes to discussing a potential relationship between her and Harry. I am sure people feel the same about other character so we do not put down characters. We simply show their flaws as the books shows them to us. They can be used to weaken or strengthen one's argument. It all depends on the point that you are trying to make.

But I can't promise you that if Ron and Hermione end up together that I won't be in an "I told you so" kind of mood.

I can. I'm here to discuss why I think Harry and Hermione will be the eventual couple and why I do not feel others will be. I will not care to be in a "I told you so" mood should Harry and Hermione happen. I won't care to throw it in anyone's face. Maybe I would if I was winning money or like a prize or something, but in the end, it is just a book.

[~Tonks~]

Only problem, JK is tricky sometimes, things, people and animals are not as they seem,
Examples are- Snape, Scabbers, Crookshanks etc.

Sirius, Moody in GoF, Quirrel... :eyebrows:

[Charmed Cheese]

I do feel that Ginny often is unjustifiably put on a pedestal when it comes to discussing a potential relationship between her and Harry. I am sure people feel the same about other character so we do not put down characters. We simply show their flaws as the books shows them to us. They can be used to weaken or strengthen one's argument. It all depends on the point that you are trying to make.

And Hermione is never put on a pedestal?

I'm sorry, but I view Hermione, Harry, Ron and Ginny as equals.

Not many H/Hr shippers say that (sorry to the ones that do).

[FlyingPhoenix]

I'm sorry, but I view Hermione, Harry, Ron and Ginny as equals.

Not many H/Hr shippers say that (sorry to the ones that do).

Well, I can't do so simple because Ginny isn't equal. As for Ron and Hermione at hands of book: 1, 3, 4, 5
Is Ron either equal. Blame JKR for it to make Ron to Mr NoAction.

[~Tonks~]

I really don't think I'll be upset regardless of who gets together with whom. Like someone before me said, it's not a romance series. I enjoy reading the books and while I sail the HMS Harmony, I really wouldn't lose it if it, well, sunk. If R/Hr happens (and succeeds, keyword) I'll be happy. If H/Hr happens (and succeeds) I'll be happy. While there are some pairings I think would be unlikely and unrealistic, hey, if those happen, JKR probably has good reason. I really wouldn't want to get in a "I told you so" mood if H/Hr occured, though. I know how much it irks me when people do that to me so I probably wouldn't want to do that to them, lest I deserve to be verbally socked in the nose via online posting text. :rotfl:

[sone]

And Hermione is never put on a pedestal?

I'm sorry, but I view Hermione, Harry, Ron and Ginny as equals.

Not many H/Hr shippers say that (sorry to the ones that do).

I already said that I am sure people feel the same about other character(s). Personally, I am not sorry to say that I do not view Hermione, Harry, Ron and Ginny as equals. I am saying it and I do not care who is offended by it or disagrees with it. I do not care if many H/Hr shippers say it. I say it regardless.

[Charmed Cheese]

:lol: Try to see it from my POV and you realise H/G shipper do put characters down.
As for plenty evidence, I must have missed this. All I know or saw are: Strange searching in subtext says: Flaming hair, firelight in the eyes...
Or that Harry and Ginny share a laugh, or Ginny is Super!Ginny but amazingly plain wrong in book5. Evidence look and smell different.


Well all I see for H/Hr is are a few tea cups, a bird flying in redundant circles, a flight on a huge beast and a 101 reasons why Harry and Hermione are epitome of Christian love.

It's amazing how a sarcastic sentence can make arguements seem small.

Please don't portray my ship in one sentence like that, I won't do the same for yours.

[MoodyMania]

And Hermione is never put on a pedestal?

I'm sorry, but I view Hermione, Harry, Ron and Ginny as equals.

Not many H/Hr shippers say that (sorry to the ones that do).
Sorry, but Ginny and equal to the trio that has been together since book 1? Sorry, don't see it. There is nothing wrong with Ginny as a character. We just haven't seen much of her for the most part. We see a lot more of Neville than we have of Ginny. I'm sure she will be much more prominant in the last too but I don't see her as an equal to the trio.

[sone]

Please don't portray my ship in one sentence like that, I won't do the same for yours.

:huh: But you already have.

Anyhow, an interesting parallel is that Ron and Ginny seem to have (or had) obvious feelings for Hermione and Harry. In my personal opinion, I believe both are in love with the idea of Hermione and Harry but not who they truly are. However with that said, Harry and Hermione's feelings are up in the air. They've also had older love interests who were jealous of Harry and Hermione's relationship. They were both considered legitimate rivals. I find that almost a bit odd considering Hermione was thought of as the "thing" Krum would miss most (this is after she looked very pretty at the Yule Ball) and Harry who figured the last thing he should be thought of, is a equal or rival to Krum. Moving on, Harry can change his mind about either Ginny or Hermione and Hermione could like either Harry or Ron. But it is interesting that Harry and Hermione's feelings towards wannabe significant others is debated....even with Viktor and Cho where it is debated whether Hermione had real affection for Viktor and/or Cho had real affection for Harry.

[Charmed Cheese]

I'm not talking about equals in terms of the role they play.

I'm talking about them as equals as people in their world.

ETA
But you already have.

To prove a point. I wasn't serious about the way I portrayed the evidence.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Please don't portray my ship in one sentence like that, I won't do the same for yours

Well, sone is right you already did. But anyway to your post: Sarcastic or not H/Hr can fill two books worth of evidence where H/G can't even 10 pages I say. This isn't so much as a putting your ship down this are just facts. We have it easier to find anything but H/G must use every single moment where Ginny dares to be mentioned which are: 100 or bit more times in 5 books.
Others as that don't exist. By H/H however Hermione is the main-female character sure we find plenty evidence which is a lot more then H/G could ever present.
R/Hr has more so has N/Hr or D/Hr but H/G has non of it. So yes H/G is very much able to put in one sentence like that. Its not me who didn't write more about Ginny, its JKR.

[~Tonks~]

:huh: But you already have.

Anyhow, an interesting parallel is that Ron and Ginny seem to have (or had) obvious feelings for Hermione and Harry. In my personal opinion, I believe both are in love with the idea of Hermione and Harry but not who they truly are.

That's a good point. When did Ginny start crushing on Harry? When she first saw him at the trainstation when she was what, ten? And the way she acted toward him was more like an excited girl acts when they get around a celebrity they idolize. Ginny is maturing now and maybe something more substantial could happen but I always got the impression she liked him more because he's "the boy who lived." As for Ron liking Hermione I get the impression that it's more of a, "Well, I don't want anyone else to have you," but he doesn't bother to take the big step either. Notice how Ron gets jealous toward anyone who may take Hermione away from him, but when all of the stuff is being written about Hermione being Harry's girlfriend in the newspaper, Ron doesn't get bothered. Why? He knows it's not really going on so he doesn't worry. Seems like he only gets concerned about it when her attention strays to something/someone else.

...just my opinion of course. :cool:

[sone]

Exactly FP. Ginny just does not have enough presence in the books or in Harry's mind to be considered a love interest where Hermione cannot be considered. Harry knows Hermione more, he talks to her more often, thinks about her more often, been through more with Hermione. Ginny has to step it up.

[lewis8604]

I am a H/Hr shipper and to me there are quite a few reasons why this will be so. In Gof at the end hermione gives Harry a kiss on the cheek as they are leaving King's Cross. He states this is the first time she has done it. and that to me means something if JK mentioned it. But i hink book five sealed it for me. When Harry gets to No. 12 he begins his yelling and Hermione is on the verge of tears, tears then
formin in her eyes. He is the only one wo could talk sense into him when sirius' vision happened.
But I could be wrong. If harry and Hermione are not together he will be alone. I think he is the heir to Gryffindor and will be the last like Voldemort

[Charmed Cheese]

Well, sone is right you already did. But anyway to your post: Sarcastic or not H/Hr can fill two books worth of evidence where H/G can't even 10 pages I say. This isn't so much as a putting your ship down this are just facts. We have it easier to find anything but H/G must use every single moment where Ginny dares to be mentioned which are: 100 or bit more times in 5 books.
Others as that don't exist. By H/H however Hermione is the main-female character sure we find plenty evidence which is a lot more then H/G could ever present.
R/Hr has more so has N/Hr or D/Hr but H/G has non of it. So yes H/G is very much able to put in one sentence like that. Its not me who didn't write more about Ginny, its JKR.

Well if your going for quantity over quality, then Ron/Harry and Sirius/Harry has more evidence.

However, I'm not a H/G shipper simply because I like Ginny. I saw H/G before I really cared for her and had to get that notion from somewhere. The evidence for H/G is strong and it's there. She doesn't need to be present in PoA and GoF for us to have plenty of evidence.

[sone]

Well if your going for quantity over quality, then Ron/Harry and Sirius/Harry has more evidence.

Perhaps, if they were homosexuals. In any case, I do not know about FP, but I go over quantity and quality over one or the other. Why have one when you can have both. Besides I do not believe the Harry/Ginny scenes that most that I have read described to be quality scenes. I am surprised people look at other scenes between them more carefully.

[MoodyMania]

Well if your going for quantity over quality, then Ron/Harry and Sirius/Harry has more evidence.

However, I'm not a H/G shipper simply because I like Ginny. I saw H/G before I really cared for her and had to get that notion from somewhere. The evidence for H/G is strong and it's there. She doesn't need to be present in PoA and GoF for us to have plenty of evidence.
When could you have noticed it? Even in CoS Harry is usually thinking about her as Rons little sister. In fact he just met her that summer so I don't see where he could have become attracted to her so fast. And during her first year she was sort of preoccupied with the diary. We don't really see Harry looking on her as the person Ginny until OotP and maybe it's just me but even though he sees Ginny as an individual now and not just Ron sister I still din't see him being impressed much by her.

Right now I don't think Harry is interested in any specific girl as a "love" interest. I'm sure based on what Jo says that will change in HBP.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Well if your going for quantity over quality, then Ron/Harry and Sirius/Harry has more evidence.

You know as I know this are uncalled evidence and pretty nonsense if I may say so. Who is there to decide what is quality? A H/HR Shipper? A H/G shipper? Pretty much biased is it at it best so I go for quantity and not quality because that is pretty much a bias opinion.

I saw H/G before I really cared for her and had to get that notion from somewhere. The evidence for H/G is strong and it's there. She doesn't need to be present in PoA and GoF for us to have plenty of evidence.

All she needs is to be a victim by Voldemort/Riddle and Harry have to rescue her to be a LI, can I say interesting concept?
So I think Harry/Gabrielle have at least equal so much of evidence, after all why should she be in OotP or HBP if its all right to be in Book7? Another girl Harry rescued. If every girl who Harry rescued were equal to his LI we had: H/Hr, H/G, H/Ga for sure.

[red_fairy]

My mum has a saying I think applies here- 'If you hear hoves don't think it's a Zebra- It's nearly always a horse'


Ha ha. I like that. It definitely applies to harry Potter shipping. :p

[Charmed Cheese]

When could you have noticed it? Even in CoS Harry is usually thinking about her as Rons little sister. In fact he just met her that summer so I don't see where he could have become attracted to her so fast. And during her first year she was sort of preoccupied with the diary. We don't really see Harry looking on her as the person Ginny until OotP and maybe it's just me but even though he sees Ginny as an individual now and not just Ron sister I still din't see him being impressed much by her.

Right now I don't think Harry is interested in any specific girl as a "love" interest. I'm sure based on what Jo says that will change in HBP.

Well we don't use Harry's opinion as evidence. Harry had a strong interest in Cho Chang, and look how that turned out. I don't trust Harry.

I trust Rowling. She's the one putting in all the H/G clues. The rescue in CoS is characteristic of mythological Hero/damsel rescues and Ginny is the embodiment of archetypal fairy tale heroines in a modern setting, just as Harry archetypal hero in a modern setting. The romantic and sexual imagery between the two. The Tom/Harry/Ginny triangle. Ginny as the seventh child and only girl in the Weasley family. Rowling interupting the Library scene before Harry could realize Ginny made him feel better, not the chocolate. These are a few of the clues leading to Harry and Ginny.

This isn't a romance. The romantic heroine doesn't have to be a main character for the whole series.


You know as I know this are uncalled evidence and pretty nonsense if I may say so. Who is there to decide what is quality? A H/HR Shipper? A H/G shipper? Pretty much biased is it at it best so I go for quantity and not quality because that is pretty much a bias opinion.

That's why we have a debate thread. To discuss evidence.
Not count how many pieces of it we have.

ETA

All she needs is to be a victim by Voldemort/Riddle and Harry have to rescue her to be a LI, can I say interesting concept?
So I think Harry/Gabrielle have at least equal so much of evidence, after all why should she be in OotP or HBP if its all right to be in Book7? Another girl Harry rescued. If every girl who Harry rescued were equal to his LI we had: H/Hr, H/G, H/Ga for sure.

We're not saying Harry rescuing Ginny is evidence. It's the nature of that rescue that's important. The elements involved are what makes it signficant.

Harry's rescued a lot of people; I'm not going to claim that the simple act of rescuing alone is evidence.

[randomfan86]

And Hermione is never put on a pedestal?

I'm sorry, but I view Hermione, Harry, Ron and Ginny as equals.

Not many H/Hr shippers say that (sorry to the ones that do).

I really don't care how the romances begin to develop as long as they make some degree of sense..however,

No offense, but you're (for the lack of a better word) retarded if you view them as equals in terms of characters

Hermione, Harry and Ron have been through extensive character development throughout ALL FIVE BOOKS and are THE three major characters to the plot (Harry obviously standing out far above the other two). No one else is on the same level (with the possible exception to Dumbledore) and to argue otherwise is pointless.


Ginny is nothing more than a third teer character (in terms of importance to the plot) along with the likes of Draco and Neville. I do think she is put on a very high pedistool in terms of importance to the serries...and I have no clue as to why so many people are fond of her...we've seen very little of her with the exception of her foolish actions in book 2 and defiant ones in book 5. Besides seeing too little of her to be fond of her, I honestly don't see what's to like about her based on the little of what we have seen...I mean c'mon...of the little I've seen of her...I haven't seen her say "I'm sorry" or "Thank you" to Harry for saving her life at personal risk for her actions...granted it might be implied...but she should've at least pulled him aside the next summer or something of the sorts and personally thanked him...that would've been the classy thing to do...and we can all use some class :tu:

[Charmed Cheese]

I really don't care how the romances begin to develop as long as they make some degree of sense..however,

No offense, but you're (for the lack of a better word) retarded if you view them as equals in terms of characters

Hermione, Harry and Ron have been through extensive character development throughout ALL FIVE BOOKS and are THE three major characters to the plot (Harry obviously standing out far above the other two). No one else is on the same level (with the possible exception to Dumbledore) and to argue otherwise is pointless.


Ginny is nothing more than a third teer character (in terms of importance to the plot) along with the likes of Draco and Neville. I do think she is put on a very high pedistool in terms of importance to the serries...and I have no clue as to why so many people are fond of her...we've seen very little of her with the exception of her foolish actions in book 2 and defiant ones in book 5. Besides seeing too little of her to be fond of her, I honestly don't see what's to like about her based on the little of what we have seen...I mean c'mon...of the little I've seen of her...I haven't seen her say "I'm sorry" or "Thank you" to Harry for saving her life at personal risk for her actions...granted it might be implied...but she should've at least pulled him aside the next summer or something of the sorts and personally thanked him...that would've been the classy thing to do...and we can all use some class :tu:

Well I'm glad I don't fit into your definition of retarded then.

If you read my follow up post you would know that I didn't mean Ginny was an equal in terms of her role thus far.

I would also like to point out that Ginny is one of Rowling's favourite characters. I guess Jo has a soft spot for selfish, whiney, weak little brats with an insignificant role...

[sone]

CC, I do not trust Harry either in certain cases but I do trust he liked Cho Chang for ages and I trust that he is no longer interested in Cho. I do trust that he learned from that experience. Hopefully he will not choose Ginny, at least until some things are understood between him and Ron. Because I do not trust Ron as far as I can throw my cars. Ginny as the seventh child and only girl in the Weasley family are just random facts. They are not even pertinent to Harry's story. People keep bringing this up as if it is important, it is not. People didn't even get the name right. It was not even Virginia, it was Ginerva. People are trying to make name revelations off of that, trying to give something more purpose than what is there.

This is not a story about her, Hermione, Ron or anyone else except Harry. It is a coming of age story and like any good coming of age story, it will have romance in it. The romantic heroine can be or cannot be the main character for the whole series, but those are not based on stories solely about the protagonist and we should discuss evidence and count how many pieces of it we have because the more we have, the more we can discuss. Doesn't really make any sense not have any consistency.

[dark_kneazle]

I think that Ginny just hasn't shown her true self infront of Harry yet. I mean in the second book HArry asked something lioke why she didn't talk to him. Ron said she was really different when he wasn't around.

The only reason she has been portrayed this way is because she went all weak keed around her crush. Now in 5th book JK has brought her out I think she will be given a more main role. She even started seeming very confident with her use of the bat bogey curse, ect.

Next year she will be one of the only people to talk to when Hermione and Ron are on Perfect duties and she'll join the quidditch team as a chasser.

I think a relationship will begin to grow.

[dark_kneazle]

Everyone keeps saying that Ron will be a big proble in a Harry/Ginny relation ships.

"Will I hope you chose someone better next itme," said ROn casting an oddly fertive look at Harry."
The 5th book quote goes something like that.

Whatever Harry and Ginny are feeling, it seems to me as if Ron wants this.

Surely if someone's your best friends you'd respect them enough to take care of your sister?

[Heatherhobbit]

I really don't care how the romances begin to develop as long as they make some degree of sense..however,

No offense, but you're (for the lack of a better word) retarded if you view them as equals in terms of characters

Hermione, Harry and Ron have been through extensive character development throughout ALL FIVE BOOKS and are THE three major characters to the plot (Harry obviously standing out far above the other two). No one else is on the same level (with the possible exception to Dumbledore) and to argue otherwise is pointless.


Ginny is nothing more than a third teer character (in terms of importance to the plot) along with the likes of Draco and Neville. I do think she is put on a very high pedistool in terms of importance to the serries...and I have no clue as to why so many people are fond of her...we've seen very little of her with the exception of her foolish actions in book 2 and defiant ones in book 5. Besides seeing too little of her to be fond of her, I honestly don't see what's to like about her based on the little of what we have seen...I mean c'mon...of the little I've seen of her...I haven't seen her say "I'm sorry" or "Thank you" to Harry for saving her life at personal risk for her actions...granted it might be implied...but she should've at least pulled him aside the next summer or something of the sorts and personally thanked him...that would've been the classy thing to do...and we can all use some class :tu:


That's some straight up Ginny bashing!!!!

[MoodyMania]

Everyone keeps saying that Ron will be a big proble in a Harry/Ginny relation ships.

"Will I hope you chose someone better next itme," said ROn casting an oddly fertive look at Harry."
The 5th book quote goes something like that.

Whatever Harry and Ginny are feeling, it seems to me as if Ron wants this.

Surely if someone's your best friends you'd respect them enough to take care of your sister?
Sorry, but this makes no sense. If you start dating your best friends sister and find out you can't stand her you would continue to date her just because it's his sister? I don't think many would. And it would cause majot problems not only with Ron but with the rest of the Weasleys as well if they broke up badly.

That's some straight up Ginny bashing!!!!
Actually it's more of a Ginny shipper bashing. But either way you look at it; it was not expressed in a very nice manner. I understand what he was saying and even agree with some of it. I just didn't care for his method of expressing it.

[Epiphany]

Pardon my interruption ;)

First of all - it is so unfair that I have to work! :p I miss so much debate!

And second of all - Well, since the discussion seems to revolve about Ginny, I must say that I am no H/G shipper...

I like Ginny, but I can't see how she would suddenly grow to be the lead woman and get it on with Harry. That, I can't even begin to imagine. Yes, we will see more of her. But we will also see more of the Weasleys. The highest level she'll ever get to is by a character like Neville's side. We will see more of the 'second trio', Luna, Ginny and Neville.

I just can't see anything proving that she'll end up with Harry. In his mind she still is Ron's little sister, whom he rescued in CoS. But that's all!

I also find it a bit weird when I read posts stating that Ginny is an all-powerful witch with hidden powers and all, and that she hasn't discovered them yet... Or that she is so special that she'll take Hermione's place in no time and help Harry end Voldemort's reign of terror...

She is Ron's little sister. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Nathaniel]

I can't see an H/G ship because Harry views the Weasleys as his family. This implies that Harry sees Ginny as somewhat of a younger sister. And of course Ron wants Harry as part of the family. I mean, Harry is rich, right?

[sone]

Surely if someone's your best friends you'd respect them enough to take care of your sister?

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Well, you give Ron far more credit than I do. It does not matter to me if Ron approves of it or not, it will still be problem just because Ginny is Ron's sister. I am not saying it cannot work, but I am saying that there will big problems before it starts really working. The fact he even gave that oddly furitive look when he knows both she and Harry are not interested in my opinion is proof of that.

[stic]

Charmed Cheese wrote:
I trust Rowling. She's the one putting in all the H/G clues. The rescue in CoS is characteristic of mythological Hero/damsel rescues and Ginny is the embodiment of archetypal fairy tale heroines in a modern setting, just as Harry archetypal hero in a modern setting

Harry cared as long for Ginny in CoS as the maid was in the "Dragon's Lair".
When the dragon was defeated he completely lost interest in her for the next 2 years. Basically no interaction between them, almost no conversations, no real friendship formed.

Rowling interupting the Library scene before Harry could realize Ginny made him feel better, not the chocolate. These are a few of the clues leading to Harry and Ginny.

What Jo wrote was that Harry felt better because he finally spoke out loud to somebody that he wanted to talk to Sirius, which was a most reckless thing if realized. If he had talked to Gred or Forge the effect would most likely have been the same. Besides, it was just a few minutes conversation; that doesn't really stand out in a full year in which they both talked very little with each other.

[dark_kneazle]

I can kind of mabey see Harry with Luna but the serious side we see at the end of Ootp doesn't appear offend enough for me. I don't think Harry could go out with someone he's openly been embaressed of. Like the radish earings.

She hasn't been arround long enough for me to like her as much a Ginny.

Yes, I am a deffinate Ron/Hermione shipper. I don't understand how people can go against it. On numerous interview JK has basically said it.

[Nathaniel]

I can kind of mabey see Harry with Luna but the serious side we see at the end of Ootp doesn't appear offend enough for me. I don't think Harry could go out with someone he's openly been embaressed of. Like the radish earings.

She hasn't been arround long enough for me to like her as much a Ginny.

Yes, I am a deffinate Ron/Hermione shipper. I don't understand how people can go against it. On numerous interview JK has basically said it.Really? When? Which interview(s)? I would like to read these.

[dark_kneazle]

The few conversation are just the start of something. Their company together will ahve to continue because Ron and Hermione will be away on Perfect duties. She'll be one of the only people left who he's comfortable to talk to.

[nextsuperhero]

[/QUOTE]What Jo wrote was that Harry felt better because he finally spoke out loud to somebody that he wanted to talk to Sirius, which was a most reckless thing if realized. If he had talked to Gred or Forge the effect would most likely have been the same. Besides, it was just a few minutes conversation; that doesn't really stand out in a full year in which they both talked very little with each other.[/QUOTE]


I agree, (although I do support H/G) but people use the same excuse with luna. I mean he can talk to her because she's been throught the same. but that doesn't mean that he's desperatly in love with her. come on- luna?

[Heatherhobbit]

People who are anti H/G always use the excuse that Ron would have a problem with it and that if they broke up it could lead to problems with the Weasleys. Well, Ron has already suggested it. Besides, if Harry got with Hermione, Ron would have a problem with that too, and if Harry and Hermione would break up, he would maybe lose her as a friend also, and she would probably turn to Ron.

[Epiphany]

And Hermione is never put on a pedestal?

I'm sorry, but I view Hermione, Harry, Ron and Ginny as equals.

Not many H/Hr shippers say that (sorry to the ones that do).

That, is far from being the reality. I certainly don't see The Trio and Ginny as equals. The amount of screen time and major parts played by Ginny is so ridiculously small compared to The Three - Harry in the lead - that I simply fail to understand how anyone would consider her as their equal.

Not that she isn't a good character - nothing to say against her(not much ;) ) - but equal? She has never been, nor will ever be. Even Fred and George have a lot more importance than her already.

She certainly has a long way to go to even try to reach The Trio.

[dark_kneazle]

Oh their one (I don't know the exact interview) it's on sugarquill.net.
It's pre ootp but it basically goes.

Interviewer-Will their be any snogging in this new book, between Harry and Hermione?
JK-Harry and Hermione? You really think so? No. Now Ron and Hermione, there's tension there.

[LexxiSmiles]

I agree with Jo pointing to a R/H hookup. If you go to her website she basicly answers that question.
The question in FAQ is "Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?" Jo answers, "I can't believe that some of you haven't worked this one out yet, but I'm not going to answer because that would spoil the arguements, which I enjoy."

I mean, we all can see the subtle hints in the books, not to mention the obvious ones in the movies. Jo has input on what goes into the movies. Do you really think that she would allow them to point to a R/H romance if she doesn't plan on one?

[Epiphany]

Oh their one (I don't know the exact interview) it's on sugarquill.net.
It's pre ootp but it basically goes.

Interviewer-Will their be any snogging in this new book, between Harry and Hermione?
JK-Harry and Hermione? You really think so? No. Now Ron and Hermione, there's tension there.

There is indeed a lot of tension between the two in GoF.

But is it the right kind of tension? From my point of view, it was caused by a teenage boy who was jealous because his friend had chosen a Quidditch player instead of him.

And also, JKR is not going to tell you how the story will go, is she?

[sone]

Besides, if Harry got with Hermione, Ron would have a problem with that too......

Probably but he wouldn't be willing to do anything about it. Maybe perhaps make an *** out of himself again. Still is not willing to say how he feels. Just rather complain and get angry because Harry did not lack the courage he does. That is one thing I do not like about Ron. He will complain to high heaven about Hermione and Viktor but he will not do anything more than complain and/or aggravate Hermione. If he cannot step up to the plate, he should go back to the dugout until he wants to get on base.

Do you really think that she would allow them to point to a R/H romance if she doesn't plan on one?

Whoever said she was planning one? Unlike other people, I do not see any harm in Ron and Hermione having a date just due to the fact that I think Ron likes her, I just do not think it is going to work. But I am not discussing the movies until someone is willing to discuss the book.

[playmaker9]

That's some straight up Ginny bashing!!!!

no it's not, it's fact. that's all in cannon, it just doesn't speak highly of ginny. JKR wrote that, not us.

as for the symbolisms...whatever. h/hr have way more of that then h/g. why is the chocolate scene the biggest moment for h/g shippers? b/c it is the only time in all five books that h/g have a one on one conversation!!! the chamber doesn't even really count, as ginny was just talking about herself more than anything else. she never even thanked harry, as was said earlier.

i remember a while back how h/g'ers were sqealing over the 'face brightened like the setting sun', but then ignored ron's description that followed the same lines.

as for the fisrt train ride when ginny ran after them, well first off, she was running and waving to her brothers, not harry, and secondly, the only other person to ever run after the train was sirius, and look where he is now.

in the CoS, i seriously doubt that JKR intentionally wrote sexual imagery for her book that was geared towards little kids. snakes slithering in and out of pipes. <rolls eyes> sounds more like a dark or frightening imagery more than anything else.

what do h/g and r/hr shippers say about all the h/hr symbolisms? they say 'oh, they're just friends, that's all it shows.' well, then why not symbolize h/r friendship, or r/hr's friendship? why only h/hr? how come the only r/hr symbolism turned out bad? (the prefects, they showed the party, and then r/hr were not a good team as far as prefects go)

so if all our symbolism means nothing but friendship, then why doesn't JKR symbolize the other friendships as well?

go cubs!

[Heatherhobbit]

Jo says on her website that she won't put anything false on her website.

[Epiphany]

Probably but he wouldn't be willing to do anything about it. Maybe perhaps make an *** out of himself again. Still is not willing to say how he feels. Just rather complain and get angry because Harry did not lack the courage he does. That is one thing I do not like about Ron. He will complain to high heaven about Hermione and Viktor but he will not do anything more than complain and/or aggravate Hermione. If he cannot step up to the plate, he should go back to the dugout until he wants to get on base.

:huh:

Is it true? Have I just met with someone who thinks the way I do about Ron? Who actually thinks he isn't perfect?

Feels good to know I'm not alone! :blush:

[GryffindorGr]

Probably but he wouldn't be willing to do anything about it. Maybe perhaps make an *** out of himself again. Still is not willing to say how he feels. Just rather complain and get angry because Harry did not lack the courage he does. That is one thing I do not like about Ron. He will complain to high heaven about Hermione and Viktor but he will not do anything more than complain and/or aggravate Hermione. If he cannot step up to the plate, he should go back to the dugout until he wants to get on base.
I had to laugh at this one, sone....I can just picture Ron making an *** of himself. Oh, he's so lovable but in a sweet annoying way. :D

byplaymaker9
so if all our symbolism means nothing but friendship, then why doesn't JKR symbolize the other friendships as well?
Ohhh you're back, playmaker :) it's nice to read your replies!
Well, the same could be said of H/G, because why in the heck would there be symbolisms as little as theirs?? because they have so little interaction! Ohh, red herring? It's so tiny and miniscule if it is.
And you know what, I've found some Luna/Ron symbolisms too. So there you go. Sadly, no Neville ones....hmmmm, except for Neville/Hermione and well, I dont really like that ship. I found the Neville/Hermione ones to be a bit more Pluto/Persophene; in greek mythology.

[Heatherhobbit]

Probably but he wouldn't be willing to do anything about it. Maybe perhaps make an *** out of himself again. Still is not willing to say how he feels. Just rather complain and get angry because Harry did not lack the courage he does. That is one thing I do not like about Ron. He will complain to high heaven about Hermione and Viktor but he will not do anything more than complain and/or aggravate Hermione. If he cannot step up to the plate, he should go back to the dugout until he wants to get on base.

Jo said that "there is something going on but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy"
I think he's going to grow up a lot in book 6, and I think that's when it's going to happen. Boys tend to be immmature. He lacks confidence. And he values his friendship with Hermione. If he would ask her out, he isn't just putting his heart out there, he's also risking making their friendship awkward. Hermione is sending signals that he should go for it, but he's a typical boy and doesn't get it. I think that's why Hermione says, "Oh Harry, you're worse than Ron. Well, not really." Harry is prettty clueless about Cho, but Ron is even more clueless. And Ron makes a comment that Hermione needs to write a book about mad things girls do to make boys like them. He's confused and just wants Hermione to come out and say it.

[lewis8604]

I think that ron and hermione will date in book 6 and find out that they are not meant for each other. Then hermione will be with Harry in book 7 and possibly save him or vice versa. This will bring them together. I also have a feeling that harry will be alone and that Ron and Hermione will end up together. I mn but it is called Harry Potter... so why not give him the girl

[Nathaniel]

:huh:

Is it true? Have I just met with someone who thinks the way I do about Ron? Who actually thinks he isn't perfect?

Feels good to know I'm not alone! :blush:It's nice to know that I'm not alone either.

[Epiphany]

Jo says on her website that she won't put anything false on her website.

What did she put on her website?

You mean about Ron and Hermione?

[MoodyMania]

Sadly, no Neville ones....hmmmm, except for Neville/Hermione and well, I dont really like that ship. I found the Neville/Hermione ones to be a bit more Pluto/Persophene; in greek mythology.
Neville does ask Ginny to the Yule Ball. And the only reason Neville was there to go to the DoM was because he tried to rescue Ginny when the Inquisition squad was bringing her to Umbridge. Many would say this is symbolism that he likes Ginny as well.

[Heatherhobbit]

Harry may not get the girl because this is a Rowling book. There's absolutely nothing cliche about any of it and the hero ending up with the female lead is very cliche. And she may try to communicate that the rich, famous, hero who doesn;t always gets the girl. Sometimes its the awkward, poor, red headed dork who gets her. This is also why I think that Harry may end up with Luna. She's very different and nobody really likes her. The famous hero could end up with someone everyone else thinks is a freak.

[DadOfHermyGinny]

Originally posted by Heatherhobbit:

Hermione is sending signals that he should go for it,

Where? I'm perfectly willing to listen to your statements if you back them up with some form of reference.

So far, I see plenty of R->Hr, but no Hr->R. This doesn't preclude it happening by any stretch, but people keep saying Hr->R is there without specifying where they see it.

EDIT: a while back (pg. 28 of version 18), I created a fairly in-depth post about how each reasonable possibility could fall into place, from Hermione's standpoint. I hope to do the same type of post for Harry tonight if I have time. I think a lot of people are hung up on thinking that because someone favors one ship or the other that they can't conceive of the others happening, which is very far from the truth for some of us.

[MoodyMania]

Harry may not get the girl because this is a Rowling book. There's absolutely nothing cliche about any of it and the hero ending up with the female lead is very cliche. And she may try to communicate that the rich, famous, hero who gets the girl. Sometimes its the awkward, poor, red headed dork who gets her. This is also why I think that Harry may end up with Luna. She's very different and nobody really likes her. The famous hero could end up with someone everyone else thinks is a freak.
Unless you see Hermione as a "prize" that either Ron or Harry will win Ron could end up with any girl including Luna and that would still show that the "awkward, poor, red headed dork" can get a girl.

[Heatherhobbit]

Originally posted by Heatherhobbit:



Where? I'm perfectly willing to listen to your statements if you back them up with some form of reference.

So far, I see plenty of R->Hr, but no Hr->R. This doesn't preclude it happening by any stretch, but people keep saying Hr->R is there without specifying where they see it.


Okay, give me a few moments to look them up and type them out. I have loads from all five books. We could be here for a while.

[Lady La]

Harry and Hermione no duh! They are perfect for each other!

[stic]

Oh their one (I don't know the exact interview) it's on sugarquill.net.
It's pre ootp but it basically goes.
Interviewer-Will their be any snogging in this new book, between Harry and Hermione?JK-Harry and Hermione? You really think so? No. Now Ron and Hermione, there's tension there.
Today 9:00 pm

Jo spoke to Katie Couric about Harry's "certain adolescent rites of passage happening to him" in the upcoming book 5.
We know now of course that she meant the kiss and the clunky romance with Cho.
The interviewer Katie Couric asked "Any snogging with Hermione?" concerning book 5 and Jo (in a little thrown-off way) repeated:

"Hermione and Harry? Do you think so?"

Katie: (in a not really convincing way to me): "No I'm kidding"

Jo: Ron and Hermione... I would say...have...there's more...

Katie: "We should probably explain-"

Jo: "-tension there."

Jo does what psychologists call "self-monitoring" during an interrogation. She weighs each word she speaks extremely carefully and seems to be under a lot of pressure: She pauses an awful lot of times, re-start's her sentence and stays ultimately vague and say "there's more tension there."
It doesn't seem to me that she had an answer really prepared for this.

Now that everyone has read book 5 we see Ron's Christmas-gift to Hermione, we see her reaction to it or we see her reaction towards him being made prefect; the tea-spoon line, etc.
so what is the "tension" exactly? If I (and many others) judge from Hermione's reactions towards Ron throughout OotP I see she constantly blocks his advances. That's enough to be classified as "tension" but makes R/Hr a no-go.

[GryffindorGr]

Neville does ask Ginny to the Yule Ball. And the only reason Neville was there to go to the DoM was because he tried to rescue Ginny when the Inquisition squad was bringing her to Umbridge. Many would say this is symbolism that he likes Ginny as well.
*rubs chin*
Well sure but if that's the case then, symbolism could be had that Neville talked about Hermione to his grandmum and in turn recognized Hermione immediately. And that Hermione was his first choice! :agree:
Besides, Ginny is perfectly capable of choosing a guy that she likes and you know what? She's chosen Michael and Dean, so if you're going to present Neville/Ginny, I'm not going to buy into that but rather believe more in the Dean/Ginny ship (but this is also pending because we don't know if it's going to be significant in book 6 as a steady relationship or that Ginny chooses someone else or Harry chooses her, or chooses another)
Basically what I'm saying is that the Yule ball doesn't present to me as symbolism. Symbolism is good in H/hr as the "hippogriff" and yes, even that tiny little pig flying around in circles, and even the tea cup scene. Although I do have to admit that the way Jo writes those symbolisms are entertaining and carefully done. Because they can also be implied as friendship love. To h/hr shippers, they're more than friendship naturally.
As for H/g, there's the chocolate symbolism which in reality, chocolate is the food of love and feel good stuff. And sunsets (think of setting suns with lovers overlooking the ocean, romantic scenery, that kind of stuff), and firelight reflection in the eyes....they're so romantic! =^^=

by stic
What Jo wrote was that Harry felt better because he finally spoke out loud to somebody that he wanted to talk to Sirius, which was a most reckless thing if realized. If he had talked to Gred or Forge the effect would most likely have been the same. Besides, it was just a few minutes conversation; that doesn't really stand out in a full year in which they both talked very little with each other.
Really? You think so? So if this was H/hr in the library scene would you think the same way? :blush:

[Epiphany]

Harry may not get the girl because this is a Rowling book. There's absolutely nothing cliche about any of it and the hero ending up with the female lead is very cliche. And she may try to communicate that the rich, famous, hero who doesn;t always gets the girl. Sometimes its the awkward, poor, red headed dork who gets her. This is also why I think that Harry may end up with Luna. She's very different and nobody really likes her. The famous hero could end up with someone everyone else thinks is a freak.

Rich, Famous, Hero... My dear, I'm certain Harry would give all of this up only to have his parents back and a normal life.

The way you say this you'd think that he is happy to be in the middle of a war and having to kill or be killed in the end.

There is nothing that hasn't been written yet. Everthing is cliche. The lonely hero has also been done a lot.

Harry/Luna? Well, it's already better than H/G, in my book.

[Lady La]

Harry-James wizard parents. Hermione-Lily muggle parents.NO one say this can be used for Ron and Hermione. Like someone said a few days ago!

[sone]

I think he's going to grow up a lot in book 6, and I think that's when it's going to happen. Boys tend to be immmature. He lacks confidence. And he values his friendship with Hermione. If he would ask her out, he isn't just putting his heart out there, he's also risking making their friendship awkward.

Better that than whine and complain about Hermione and Viktor any time his name is mentioned. He was the only one that could not understand that perhaps if he asked Hermione first, she would of gone with him. Harry understood it. Hell, Harry did it himself. Harry wanted to go with Cho. He rejected offers from other girls, he actually asked Cho to the Yule Ball first. When she turned him down, he got jealous that she was going with Cedric Diggory and he even admitted to himself that he could of treated Parvati better than he did at the Yule Ball, but did he make an *** out of himself in front of Cho or Cedric? Did Neville make an *** out of himself? Boys can be immature at that age, but I do not give allowances for stupidity. Ron was stupid more than he was immature and he has not changed. He has not understood a word Hermione said let alone apologized for his inexcusable behavior that night.

And Ron makes a comment that Hermione needs to write a book about mad things girls do to make boys like them. He's confused and just wants Hermione to come out and say it.

It is not up to her to say it as I do not feel she likes Ron romantically. She has not been giving him any signals in my opinion. I am willing to say she can like Ron, but she needs to be treated better than she has been, especially in regards to Viktor. It is up to him. The Yule Ball showed that Hermione will not wait until Ron makes up his mind and she will not stop seeing people just because Ron rather be jealous punk than grow up. It first started with Harry and then it spread to her. It should be of no surprise why the both of them got very angry at Ron. Couldn't tell either how he really felt.

[Heatherhobbit]

Lady La. The same comparison can be used for Ron and Hermione

[MagicianGirl]

I can't see an H/G ship because Harry views the Weasleys as his family. This implies that Harry sees Ginny as somewhat of a younger sister. And of course Ron wants Harry as part of the family. I mean, Harry is rich, right?
:rotfl: :rotfl: . This is a new one. Those Weasley's , I mean what better way to get a hand on Harry's fortune than to marry off their only daughter to Harry :rotfl:.

[lanifiel]

No offense, but you're (for the lack of a better word) retarded if you view them as equals in terms of characters
randomfan86, personal attacks of this nature are not welcome on the boards. Insulting people will get you banned. Saying "no offense" and then proceeding to insult someone anyway doesnt work, cause if it did I could say "no offense" but you're just a... anyway, we wont get into that.

First, last and only warning has been supplied to you...

[FoxyDoxy]

Harry may not get the girl because this is a Rowling book
She's only written the Harry Potter novels so we have nothing to compare to- there's nothing to say that J.K wont want the main male character to end up with the main female character.
There's absolutely nothing cliche about any of it and the hero ending up with the female lead is very cliche
Why is it cliche? Because it's expected?
What makes JK so amazing is that she's been able to collect mythology and other familiar materials and give them a new spin, though we can recognise some parts and see where they are going (ie Remus Lupin being a werewolf) she is able to make them fresh. I don't doubt for one second that she could make a relationship between H/HR as un cliche as possible.

[Heatherhobbit]

Don't think I am ignoring any of you...I am looking up my mountains of evidence and will be posting it as soon as I get it together. It may be a while. Thanks.

[DadOfHermyGinny]

Don't think I am ignoring any of you...I am looking up my mountains of evidence and will be posting it as soon as I get it together. It may be a while. Thanks.
I feel badly - I asked for this and now I won't be on for a few hours... :-( Looking forward to your post, Heatherhobbit.

Just an off-hand thought I had today that may get us away from the R/Hr/H acrimony for a bit. It's half-funny, half-serious.

Now that Ron is getting a little bit of success (prefect, Quiddich goalie), can anyone see him trying to be a little bit of a "playa" (ladies man) in the upcoming book? The bit with mussing his hair in front of the Hufflepuff girls cracked me up. Maybe he'll have a little more self-confidence.

[sone]

Now that Ron is getting a little bit of success (prefect, Quiddich goalie), can anyone see him trying to be a little bit of a "playa" (ladies man) in the upcoming book? The bit with mussing his hair in front of the Hufflepuff girls cracked me up. Maybe he'll have a little more self-confidence.

Oh I think he will have alot more confidence, but I think this is going to be the root of his problems in HBP. He is just as bad of a winner as he is a loser. When he won the Quidditch Cup, he was playing with his hair and kept talking about his saves over and over again. I think it foreshadows the problem Rowling said he will have in Quidditch.

[Hope1272]

by Heatherhobbit:
Harry may not get the girl because this is a Rowling book. There's absolutely nothing cliche about any of it and the hero ending up with the female lead is very cliche. And she may try to communicate that the rich, famous, hero who doesn;t always gets the girl. Sometimes its the awkward, poor, red headed dork who gets her. This is also why I think that Harry may end up with Luna. She's very different and nobody really likes her. The famous hero could end up with someone everyone else thinks is a freak.
Many have said it before and I just add my agreement with Hermione not being a prize. Ron is no more entitled to Hermione's affections just because he's the poor, looked over sidekick any more than Harry is entitled just because he's the hero or protagonist of the story. But enough on that.

Actually what I wanted to address is that frankly, everything about Harry Potter is cliche in one way or another. But JKR is talented enough to take the familiar threads and spin them into a very entertaining and fascinating tale. That being said, Hermione is hardly "the girl" material. She's bushy haired, over achieving, bossy and as Ron so eloquently put it "such a lovely sweet tempered girl" :rotfl: Harry is hardly "the hero" type either. He's skinny, has uncontrollable hair, a bit on the grumpy side and at times, completely clueless. But it's their very character that gives a certain romance to them. We can see where someone (depending on the ship) could fall in love with these characters.

Ron, although I'm not his biggest fan, is the only one of the Trio that actually fits what the best friend and sidekick should be: a bit gangly, outspoken at times, charmingly vulnerable(sometimes), quick to jump to conclusions(at times) and funny. Maybe it's because of Ron's endearing extraordinary averageness that I really like R/L. I think she sees the "Ronald" or the specialness in Ron and Ron could see the somewhat normal and sweet girl behind the bottlecap necklaces and radish earrings, :agree:

[jordmundt6]

And again, Sone and I agree. The other problem might be whether Ron, after convincing himself that he's "God's gift" to Keeping will have a relapse to blooper-reel status when playing Quidditch with Harry. He's just as sore a winner as he is a sore loser. I'm going to make this plea now. If Ron lucks out and ends up paired with Hermione--please make him worthy of her. As of right now, a Ron/Hermione pairing would mean something very tragic. Hermione would be "unable to respect her partner in life" a terrible prospect in literary and actual unions and a basis for the worst marriages in Austen's literature (think, the Bennets).

Actually--Hope, Ron's quip is doubly ironic. He's being sarcastic, but what he doesn't realize is that Hermione has a great capacity for caring and patience (that she uses with Harry--look at the Cho situation or her attempts to make him think things through after the "vision" of Sirius being tortured) but he sees her as a bossy brat. He sees this because he brings out the absolute worst in her as she does in him.

[Heatherhobbit]

Hope, that was so romantic, I almost agreed with it. But I'm not the romantic type, so anyway...

[drdementor]

Who is the perfect lady for Harry? Probably none of the Gryffindors! Hermione and Neville are destined for each other, Ron will marry a cute muggle he rescues in book 6 or 7, Ginny and Duddy-kins will finally hook up, and Harry will marry his one true love, Luna Lovegood. Okay, I am only half-way joking. I do think that Hr/N and L/H would be fairly good couples, though. Neville's not the bungling fool people have thought, and Hermione's the one person who a) has always been considerate and helpful and b) probably broke his heart when she cursed him at the end of PS/SS. All N needs is a little self-respect, and better grades to win his Hermy back! And I think that Luna is the perfect girl for Harry. I have ever since she came on the scene. I can't really explain why, I just think she's very special and that while her *actions* are strange, her *emotions* are ones that Harry can understand and appreciate. Most of the Hogwarts girls described, from Harry's point of view, of course, are giggly. I think he'd get frustrated by the frivolity and idiocy that seem to mark most of his classmates. That's why I understand people wanting him with Hermione or Ginny, two girls who actually seem to function fairly normally.

One more time, just for emphasis:

Hermione and Neville, the couple that cares :)

---Dementedly yours,

Dr. Dementor

(because all my posts suck)

[Discordia]

When it comes to romance lets look at a few of our infamous couples:
Romeo and Juliet: They were young, wealthy, beautiful and crazy in love with eachother and they died, actually to put it more bluntly they commited suicide
Tristan and Isolde: Young, wealthy, noble, and wouldn't ya know? They killed eachother also. Movin along.....
Cleopatra and MarcAntony: Guess what you guys? They both killed themselves also! I guess that means that we'll hear about a domestic homicide with JLo and her new husband MarcAntony. I knew they were doomed anyways. Next one....
Rose Dewitbutaker and Jack Dawson: Rose manages to float along on a wooden door but does she even let Jack on? Noooo. She leaves him to freeze to death in sub zero waters while he's still handcuffed to her hand saying that they'll always be together. Together didn't really last all that long did it becasue as soon as poor Jack snuffed it Rose had those handcuffs faster than you could say S.O.S. God help the offspring of that girl with the same last name bc yeesh!
Stephen and Matilda: The guy claims undying love for the princess and than he goes off and steals her crown, her kindom, and her birthright not to mention her virginty than just leaves her hanging
Anne Boleyn and Henry VIII: Ok, let's see...oh right here we go, Henry practically gets himself excounicated, creates his own church, disinherits his only daughter, and divorces his wife all because he wants to marry some hot young fox becasue he wants a son. Guess what happens? Anne has a girl and he chops off her head? Mind you he divorced his fifth wife bc she was too ugly and he had his sixth wife executuioned also. Talk about till death do us part...
Lancelot and Guenevere: Poor Guenevere is in achildless in a marriage to a man she respects but doesn't love and in love with a man she can never have. She commits adultery with lancelot so Arthur tries to burn his beloved wife at te stake only our loyal Lancelot comes to the rescue and saves her. However Lancelot later retires to become a hermit and Gunever lives out the rest of her life as a nun. Not only did they manage to destroy eachother they brought down the end of a truly great civilization all because they couldn't keep their hands of eachother. Movin on.....
Abelard and Heloise: A pious scholar and a young girl whose as virginal as a nun commit a lusty affair under the eyes of her uncle. What happens to them? Well they do get married but it's not happily ever after for them. Oh no. They're doomed to spend their lives apart from eachother. Abelard is castrated and becomes a monk while Heloise is also sent off to a ministry.
Marie and Pierre Currie: Driven by their love of science but killed by the one thing that bonded them together: radioactivity.
Helen and Paris of Troy: Helen casued war that lasted ten years and than her beloved Paris divorced his own wife to be with Helen and than he was killed during the ar and poor Helen went straight back to her old husband although in some stories she was killed by her husband. What a loss for him, but anywaysss

So in short all these people either commited suicide, betrayed eachother, or were seperated for long periods of time. I know I must sound very cynical but for all these dreams of love here's the reality of it. These people were ready to kill eachother for it, turn traitor against their countries or never got a chance to truly be together.

On a lighter note maybe that's also the point. That they loved and lived. What's the good in living a life without love than? I guess it just means you have a shot at a longer life than! Well as they say better to have loved and lived than never to have loved at all. Love can be one hell of a rollercoaster but atleast it makes the ride worth while...even if their is the potentional for death, doom, and disaster.
So what does all this have to do with Harry Potter? Probably nothing and probably everything but I thought Rowling said that we'd only see some very light shipping. Actually I'm jsut posting this becasue I had it poseted somewhere else and I kind of liked my list so here it goes again. But back to HP. H/R may not seem like a match made in heaven but who is? I've seen various couples in books and tv who seem to despise eachother and than they end up together anyways. Just becasue people don't get a long at times doesn't mean that they're not necessarily made for eachother. Everyone automatically assumed that the hero will get the girl. I don't think H/Hr will happen and she's been building up more around something going on between Hermione and Ron than she has with Hermione and Harry. Harry had a crush on Cho which was not meant to be but we've seen something build up since book 4 with no real intervention from Harry and I don't think that in the next two books he's going to start of thinking of Hermione romanticaly when he hasn't even given thought to it before because he considers her to be like his best friend. Rowling has kept on given us hints in the direction of R/Hr and I really don't think that H/Hr is destined to be.

[Heatherhobbit]

Who is the perfect lady for Harry? Probably none of the Gryffindors! Hermione and Neville are destined for each other, Ron will marry a cute muggle he rescues in book 6 or 7, Ginny and Duddy-kins will finally hook up, and Harry will marry his one true love, Luna Lovegood. Okay, I am only half-way joking. I do think that Hr/N and L/H would be fairly good couples, though. Neville's not the bungling fool people have thought, and Hermione's the one person who a) has always been considerate and helpful and b) probably broke his heart when she cursed him at the end of PS/SS. All N needs is a little self-respect, and better grades to win his Hermy back! And I think that Luna is the perfect girl for Harry. I have ever since she came on the scene. I can't really explain why, I just think she's very special and that while her *actions* are strange, her *emotions* are ones that Harry can understand and appreciate. Most of the Hogwarts girls described, from Harry's point of view, of course, are giggly. I think he'd get frustrated by the frivolity and idiocy that seem to mark most of his classmates. That's why I understand people wanting him with Hermione or Ginny, two girls who actually seem to function fairly normally.



One more time, just for emphasis:

Hermione and Neville, the couple that cares :)

---Dementedly yours,

Dr. Dementor

(because all my posts suck)

Actually I think this post is quite refreshing. I don't think your posts suck at all.

[Heatherhobbit]

Discordia, that was a great post, and i agree with it 100%. I won't repost, but if you want to know how I feel about it, read discordia's post! Brilliant!!!

[MoodyMania]

Besides, Ginny is perfectly capable of choosing a guy that she likes and you know what? She's chosen Michael and Dean, so if you're going to present Neville/Ginny, I'm not going to buy into that but rather believe more in the Dean/Ginny ship (but this is also pending because we don't know if it's going to be significant in book 6 as a steady relationship or that Ginny chooses someone else or Harry chooses her, or chooses another)

There is a bit of evidence in OotP to make one think that Neville does fancy Ginny. But there is not a lot one can see that Ginny likes him like that. But actually, I agree that Ginny is perfectly capable of picking whomever she likes. My point being that just because someone helps someone else does not mean they are going to end up together even if one of them wants that outcome.

Neville trying to rescue her from the Inquisition Squad does not = N/G
Harry rescuing Fluers Sister from the lake does not = H/FS (don't remember her name lol)
Harry rescuing Hermoine does not = H/Hr
But at the same time...
Ron trying to rescue Hermione from Dracos remarks does not = R/Hr
Harry rescuing Ginny from CoS does not = H/G

This is the main reason I don't ship. Anyone can still end up with any of the others or none at all. They are mid teens and very seldom do you see them find true love at this age. How often does the persom marry their high school sweetheart? Sure it happens but I'll bet most at that age aren't thinking of marriage just being with someone and having a good time.

Jo did say in a quote that in HBP that Harry would share a kiss or two so we will all just have to wait and see who the lucky winner (?) is. :p

[sone]

H/R may not seem like a match made in heaven but who is? I've seen various couples in books and tv who seem to despise eachother and than they end up together anyways. Just becasue people don't get a long at times doesn't mean that they're not necessarily made for each other.

To me, that is still more Harry and Hermione than Ron and Hermione. Harry and Hermione did not start off as the best of friends either and even if they did, who cares? Good for them if they did. Sometimes we actually do just get along from the beginning and end up happy. But they didn't. I find Harry and Hermione to be ahead of Ron and Hermione in many aspects. Where it has been asked for Ron to grow up, Harry already has. Where it has been expected that Hermione would give signals, she already has with Harry. Ron and Hermione are still at odds with each other after five years but now it is a bit more tense amongst the trio now because Ron has developed a crush on Hermione and frankly Harry is getting sick of hearing them argue all the time....and about nothing really. I expect something to happen between Ron and Hermione but in the end not a relationship. There is such thing as being at odds too often. Harry found out the hard way exactly what that means. Harry and Hermione simply have made much more progress in their friendship and people assume that now their relationship is perfect as is and can go no further. Far from it. They can go much further. They already have since the beginning. Not without it's problems of course as I am sure so many of you will point out including myself if neccessary. I do not care what everybody else assumed. If they made assumptions before they read the books, that is their problem. The old saying, "don't judge a book by it's cover".