Why weren't the Weasleys in the first Order?

[TheGreatest]

How come they weren't in the Original Order of the Phoenix.

[dobby_rocks]

I have wondered that as well. Prehaps it was because at the time they had so many young children they didnt want to take the risk of being in the Order. Perhaps thats something we will learn of in later books

[dobby_rocks]

That thread is on Current memebers. This one seems to be soley on Molly and Auther and why they were not in the Order the first time around. They are in their 50's so they would have been in their mid 30's to early 40's first time around

[DougJohnston]

I have wondered that as well. Prehaps it was because at the time they had so many young children they didnt want to take the risk of being in the Order. Perhaps thats something we will learn of in later books

Exactly what I was thinking! :tu:

[~Tonks~]

I don't really think that thread covers this topic Call Me Tonks but good try :D


I'm sorry, I was just trying to help :) I'll delete it then? :)

[meganne]

yea i think i would have to agree with DOBBY ROCKS that they had a bunch of young children at the time.....i guess maybe they thought it was too much of a risk then or something iono.

[Picko]

Ok, back on topic. If somebody finds a relevant duplicate thread then suggest it. Otherwise this seems different enough to stay.

In my opinion Arthur and Molly would've been dealing with little children the first time Lord Voldemort came to power and simply wouldn't have had time to be in the order. I'm sure however they would've been aware of it given that Molly's brothers were members and were killed. I also think that perhaps Arthur didn't have as many contacts back then, I imagine he would've been very junior at the Ministry and probably didn't know the type of people who were setting the Order up at the time.

[Kingsley]

Molly was Molly Prewett before her marriage,And in the first book it's mentioned that some of the Prewetts were killed fighting Voldemort.
Maybe the first time the Order was formed Molly and Arthur weren't too close to Dumbledore to be indicted into the Order.

[AncientPlum]

I've just started re-reading OOTP and I remember the part where she was trying to get rid of the Boggart, Lupin and the others were telling her it was not like last time. We do know that she lost many of her family. It is possible that she didn't allow Arthur to be involved because of thier children. The only reason they're probably in in this time is because of the affection she has towards Harry and wish to protect him any way she can.

[TheGreatest]

That thread is on Current memebers. This one seems to be soley on Molly and Auther and why they were not in the Order the first time around. They are in their 50's so they would have been in their mid 30's to early 40's first time around


They are definetley old enough because Molly says that the Whomping Willow was planted after she LEFT school and Lupin says it was planted they year he CAME to school.

[McAster]

Molly is mainly there due to her children and Arthur in present day (well present day for them) for now. Sure she helps out, but as a house-wife there is only so much she can do (still useful though).

Back then, I don't think she had any connection with Dumbledore outside of Hogwarts and even then it wasn't that much. Not to mention, with so many family members being killed, I doubt she would want to join any secret organization just then.

Now as for Arthur, how long has he had influence in the Ministry?
Was he even overt enough to be noticed back then to be a member, or have any power and/or use?

Just not the right time or the right people for the first Order, that is all I say.

[Caffymajin]

Even if they were old enough and able to contribute time to the OotP, they would have been a fairly easy target, because a mother having 2048230948230 kids to look after is going to be a bit preoccupied :eyebrows:

[katie]

As Draco Malfoy once said "It's not what you know, but [I]who[U] you know.";)

Ads Draco Malfoy once said "It's not what you know, but who you know." ;)

[arox]

Kingsley think your right.



Even if they were old enough and able to contribute time to the OotP, they would have been a fairly easy target, because a mother having 2048230948230 kids to look after is going to be a bit preoccupied :eyebrows:

Lol yeah....

[Barbara Kennedy]

Molly Prewett (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=25870)
This thread does discuss the Weasleys' possible involvement in the first Order.

I think this one does too.
Why doesn’t Molly have a job? ( http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=26532)

[dumbleedore]

Molly Prewett (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=25870)
This thread does discuss the Weasleys' possible involvement in the first Order.

I think this one does too.
Why doesn’t Molly have a job? ( http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=26532)
Thanks Barbara, but as Picko said up a little further, this is different enough :)

I think that perhaps they were involved first time around, just not as much as now. First time around the children were very young and Dumbledore perhaps said no to them joining fully, however used Arthur as a pawn at the ministry.

[Barbara Kennedy]

That's cool, just use those threads as reference then and have fun.:tu:

[fabulouskirsten]

Or perhaps the original order were incredibly suspicious of everybody and if the Weasleys weren't close friends with any of the order, how would they know that the Weasleys were secret supporters of Voldemort...phew, that was some sentence! I hope it makes sense. Like Moody and Sirius (I think) have said, nobody knew exactly who was working for Voldemort. Thus everybody not in the Order would be a suspect.

[SquibOnline]

Perhaps they wern't friendly with Dumbledore back then

[Godrics_Heiress]

I believe it had to do with bringing up the kids under dire circumstances. You have to remember that all the Weasley children are almost just a year apart of age from each other. They must have been all too young at the time when the picture was taken without Molly and Arthur, and I suppose Molly and Arthur didn't want to take the risk to submit the kids to danger. The whole family might have been kept hidden for a while and still be in close tabs with the Order, with Arthur and Molly taking turns to work undercover for the Order.

[Bouncing_Ferret]

I think that perhaps they were involved first time around, just not as much as now. First time around the children were very young and Dumbledore perhaps said no to them joining fully, however used Arthur as a pawn at the ministry.

Mm, that makes sense - I suppose Dumbledore wouldn't want to endanger the entire family by allowing Molly and Arthur to become directly involved with the Order. However, plenty of other witches and wizards with young children seem to have been active members - the Longbottoms, the Potters... Not to mention that those on the other side were having children too - eg. Crabbe, Goyle, Draco, Theodore Nott. Which suggests that the DE's were completely confident that Voldemort would eventually triumph over even Dumbledore. So if the situation was really that serious, wouldn't Dumbledore have wanted to recruit every single trustworthy witch or wizard around, like the Weasleys? (Sorry, my conversation's going in circles here...)

I know that the Weasleys had far more children to look after than the Potters or the Longbottoms, but I wouldn't have thought that that would be a deciding factor in whether they joined the Order or not, as the most important issue was defeating Voldemort who, if successful, would certainly kill families like the Weasleys anyway, thus making it pointless to protect them at the cost of losing the war.

I think rather that the Weasleys weren't invited into the Order just because it was so very difficult to trust witches and wizards during the war. Even if the Prewetts believed that Molly was on their side, nobody could be completely sure. I believe that the first time around, the Order was forced to stick with the original members that had joined at the very beginning of the war, as it was far too risky to recruit new members later on as Voldemort's network of spies grew. The same thing is happening this time as well - Dumbledore wants to recruit new members to strengthen the Order before Voldemort has had time to find spies and reinforce his own ranks.

One other thing - was it mentioned anywhere that Arthur hadn't been in the Order the first time around? I remember Lupin telling Molly, 'You weren't in the Order then, you can't understand,' but I can't recall anyone mentioning whether Arthur had been involved before. It seems the sort of thing that Arthur might do - join the Order without telling his wife, because he knows that she would worry herself to death if she knew.

[noxerised]

One other thing - was it mentioned anywhere that Arthur hadn't been in the Order the first time around? I remember Lupin telling Molly, 'You weren't in the Order then, you can't understand,' but I can't recall anyone mentioning whether Arthur had been involved before. It seems the sort of thing that Arthur might do - join the Order without telling his wife, because he knows that she would worry herself to death if she knew.

that's something that arthur would do, not intentionally to worry her or hide things from her, but to do what he believed would help the world of magic...and to him that is extremely important...also, as previously stated above, we don't really know enough to know if/why arthur wasn't in the original order...my guess is that dumbledore knew arthur, but also wanted to see his many (and i mean many) kids grow up w/ a father...

[fleur magique]

Mm, that makes sense - I suppose Dumbledore wouldn't want to endanger the entire family by allowing Molly and Arthur to become directly involved with the Order. However, plenty of other witches and wizards with young children seem to have been active members - the Longbottoms, the Potters... Not to mention that those on the other side were having children too - eg. Crabbe, Goyle, Draco, Theodore Nott.
Well with the Potters and the Longbottoms I think they joined the order before they even knew that Harry and Nevile were going to be born. And with Crabbe, Goyle, Draco, and everyone on the other side who had a child, I don't think it would matter. I always thought that it was the husband who was the Death Eater(Lucius, Crabbe's father, Goyle's father) not the mother. With the mother being at home then it wouldn't matter because they would be out of harms way and in no real danger.

[Bouncing_Ferret]

Well with the Potters and the Longbottoms I think they joined the order before they even knew that Harry and Nevile were going to be born.

True, the Potters and Longbottoms were already Order members - but if Dumbledore hadn't wanted families with young children to participate in the war, then he would have discharged them from the Order when their children were born. I don't think this happened, however, because the Potters had already had Harry for a year before they went into hiding, which means that they were probably involved in the Order leading up to that time. The Longbottoms, I suppose, are different, because they were tortured for information after Voldemort's downfall, weren't they? It's all very confusing!

And with Crabbe, Goyle, Draco, and everyone on the other side who had a child, I don't think it would matter. I always thought that it was the husband who was the Death Eater(Lucius, Crabbe's father, Goyle's father) not the mother. With the mother being at home then it wouldn't matter because they would be out of harms way and in no real danger.

But there still would have been a risk that the DE's families could be infiltrated by the Order. It seems as if there weren't many places that actually were out of harm's way, so it would be quite a risk for the DE's to leave their young families at home while they weren't there to protect them. The Potters' family situation seems much safer, as the rest of the Order could act as protection as well as Lily and James. Somehow I just can't see the same thing happening with the DE's - Crabbe babysitting little Draco every Saturday night while Lucius was out murdering muggles. Then again, we are being constantly surprised!

[Mundungus Fletc]

Weren't the Longbottoms aurors? In which case they had no choice about being active in the war. Membership of the order was possibly helping to protect them.

[Selyr Black]

The HP-Lexicon states that Charlie Weasley would have been born in 1969*. This would mean that all through his [Charlie's] youth, Voldemort was gaining power, coming to a climax in July 1986 when he killed Harry's parents and tried to kill Harry. The youngest; Ginny, was born in 1981. This means that for an 11 year time span between the births of the Weasley children.

This would mean that Arthur and Molly were considerably busy with their children to be involved in the order on the first go around.

However, on the second; in 1995, Charlie would be 26 years old, and more than capable of helping to watch over his younger siblings should Arthur and Molly be killed.

Approximage Birthdates
1967 Bill
1969 Charlie
1976 Percy
1978 Fred/George
1980 Ron
1981 Ginny

[Silkeng]

Approximage Birthdates
1969 Charlie
1971 Bill
1976 Percy
1978 Fred/George
1980 Ron
1981 Ginny

( * OR 1968 )

I am a little confused i thought Bill was the oldest. Still Arthur and Molly would have had very young kids at the time, and unlikely to want to risk it. Also it seems Aurors were the main component of the first order, the longbottoms and mad eye. It seems everyone has the same idea that they were not as close to Dumbledore then, but I believe Arthur would have joined if he was needed (asked to) he seems like that kind of man.

[HP4dummies]

Unless I am forgetting something, other than sending kids to Hogwarts, it doesn't seem like Arthur or Molly have done anything over those years to have a closer relationship with Dumbledore. But this time, when it came time to gather up the Order, Molly answered very quickly to a pretty vague question about her and Arthur helping out.
Because of how important it was to help the Order last time, you would think that at least Arthur would have been involved.

[Da_Chinkster]

AS HP4dummies says they only sent their kids to Hogwarts and wernt so close to DD. It was only the introduction of Harry who became best friends with Ron thus making the Weasley family a lot closer to both Harry and in turn DD.

[Selyr Black]

I am a little confused i thought Bill was the oldest. Still Arthur and Molly would have had very young kids at the time, and unlikely to want to risk it. Also it seems Aurors were the main component of the first order, the longbottoms and mad eye. It seems everyone has the same idea that they were not as close to Dumbledore then, but I believe Arthur would have joined if he was needed (asked to) he seems like that kind of man.

You're probably right. I was writing that at 2:30 in the morning, so I probably got something wrong. I'll check now though, as I can't remember reading if the Lexicon said who was born first. I do remember reading that Bill and Charlie were born 2 years apart though.

*** CHECKS ***

Yeah, Bill was born first. My bad. :|

Means Bill was born in 1967 then. As the Lexicon's math thing on them sayd Charlie was born in '69.

This also corrects the 8 year difference I remember reading about somethime this mornning.

I'll edit my previous post.

[bethp]

It never mentions that Arthur wasn't in the first order...only that Molly wasn't. Also I thought in an earlier book 3 or 4 that it said Arthur was a close friend of DDs I will have to go search - but I thought it was a Percy comment and before book 5.

I think that since we were never introduced to all the people in the photo Moody had that there is a good chance that the Weasley's were involved...also because of the relationship between Mr Weasley and Lucius Malfoy - I think it was more than just the fact that AW worked in muggle relations.

I could see them not being as closely involved as others since they did have SO many kids.

[HP4dummies]

Arthur wasn't in the Photo that Moody showed to Harry of the people in the first Order. There may have been more than 22 people in the first Order, but the book only ever talks about people who were also in the photo. Also, it looks like the "Old Crowd" seems to not have been in the order either.

[RemusLupinFan]

I agree with the people who believe they weren't in the first Order due to their commitment to their children. Starting a new family takes a lot of time and effort, so I don't think Molly and Arthur had much time to spare to join the Order. That's not to say that they didn't help the Order out in any way they could, because I do believe they at least gave them some assistance. Another reason for not joining could have been to ensure that nothing would happen to either one of them, so that their children didn't grow up without both parents.

[Kelfa21]

Probably because they had too many young children at the time

She was probably pregnant with Ron
The twins were just babies (my god...how could Molly deal with that!?)
And Percy was still very young as well....

At that time...would you think Molly would approve of Arthur joining some order to fight and possibly die...

[aggiefan1206]

They may or may not have been in it but also they were a lot younger and so were some of the others like lupin. Some of the newer members were only kids at that point in time. Mabe they werein the order but mabe in case a picture was discovered they left people out that could be in more danger. Mabe it was the fact that they had quite a few kids. Mabe only arther was mabe he spied at the ministry in a way. example i have a pretty good feeling he has suspected malfoy for quite some time

[Wep]

This is something I thought of alot after the Order picture bit in OotP. I think that, as alot of people have said, the fact that they had many young children at the time was a major factor as to why they weren't in the order, well at least not an active member. I don't think DD would have wanted to involve them too much. Also, the Weasleys are quoted as being one of the biggest "blood traitor" families. So from that they were probably a pretty big target as it was, without making them members of the order as well. I think they may have been involved with the Order, well Arthur at least, and definately on their side of the war, but not actually active members as the others. I know Lily and James and Frank and Alice had young families as well. But I assume they were members of the order before they both got pregnant, and they had one child...the Weasley's had, well a handful!

[Marcy]

I second the many small children at home theory. The Potters and Longbottoms were surely working for the Order before they had their children because both had "thrice eluded" Voldemort...so that is why they were in the order!

[mbwun5]

Personally, I'd always thought that Lupins quote
...we're much better of than we were last time, you weren't in the Order then, you don't understand, last time we were outnumbered twenty to one by the Death Eaters and they were picking us off one by one...
meant the entire Weasly family. I don't think Arthur was in the Order the first time, I feel like JKR would have mentioned it if he had been.

I agree that Dumbledore could have not asked the Weasly's to join because of their children, but I don't think that is the only thing. First off the original order was small, very small. To be outnumbered 20 to 1 by the Death Eaters they couldn't have been a huge group. This makes me think that the people mentioned by Moody in the picture are pretty much everyone. There could have been a person or two missing, but, not a significant number.

Secondly, at the beginning or the last war I doubt that Arthur was very high up in the Ministry. Arthur is a good wizard, but he wasn't an Auror, high up in the Ministry, rich, or connected in any real way. Sure, he's not exactly MoM now, but at least he heads his department. He's been on the job long enough to have made friends and connections. During the first war he was probably just a low leveler in whatever office he was working for, I don't remember if he was still working on Muggles then.

Third, just because Arthur and Molly weren't in the Order doesn't mean they weren't involved with the war effort. I've always thought of the Order as a very exclusive group. Not everyone gets an invite, no matter who they are. I'm sure Arthur and Molly were doing their part to support the good side, just not through the Order.

I would also like to dispute that the Weasly's only became close to Dumbledore after Harry and Ron became friends. Both Arthur and Molly went to Hogwarts where Dumbledore taught. We can assume that they both had him as a Transfiguration teacher for multiple years, just the like the trio currently has McGonagall. Then Dumbledore became Headmaster and the Weasley's started sending their kids to his school. Most parents would know the people the run their children's school through school events and the like, add to this the fact that Arthur and Molly had him as a teacher and I'm sure they would have been in touch, even if it was just about general schooling matters. Add to all of this Harry, the reemergence of The Dark Lord, etc and you have a fairly tight bond between the Weasley's and Dumbledore.

[Wep]

I think the Weasleys knew DD pretty well...before Ron and Harry became friends...

[Drusilla]

I think Dumbledore's closeness to the Weasley's predates Harry and Ron's arrival at Hogwarts (and their subsequent friendship), and he may have advised Arthur and Molly not to put their lives in danger during the First War, especially with seven young children around (Ginny having been born just months before Voldemort's downfall). The time that Voldemort spent in his rise to power, we mustn't forget, was a time she spent mostly
1)Pregnant with Percy, the twins, Ron and Ginny
2) Dealing with their infancy, which I can imagine was't easy
Also, she'd already lost two family members to Voldemort, it's quite possible she wouldn't want to risk their lives when they had seven kids and couldn't be entirely sure just how they'd get through, given that they were regarded as blood traitors by the Death Eating part of the population.

[arshia]

they are in the order because harry and ron are close friends! :eyebrows:

[Wep]

I don't think that is the only reason they are in the order now, it's more than that. As for why they weren't first time around. As I said before the kids would be a huge part, not just in looking after them at the time, but I seriously doubt Dumbledore would want to put such a large young family in harms way, well more than they were at the time.