CoSForums Archive - Neville, Voldemort, and a LOT of gum v2

Dr Hesper

October 9th, 2004, 11:08 pm

with Peeves, i'm almost convinced there's something there. he puts gum in a keyhole - gum is the key, gum is preventing the door to open... i'm sure there's something to that. You are probably right! I haven’t given up on the (there’s more than meets the "eyedea" about Peeves) theory yet either. I don’t think Jo keeps referring to him just for color. He probably does know something and I really am curious about his fear of the Bloody Baron. :)

Poor, Doc. He's so lost. Paravati and Lavender brought Prof. Trewlawney some daffodils after she had been dismissed by the ugly toad in the pink cardigan. They mentioned that they were the nice kind (which we assume are the ones we Muggles know), not the horrible honking ones Sprout's got, and that's where this coversation began.Aww…. Well, forgive me. I’ve been gone for about a month and am trying to catch up. I’m glad there are references in the books about Dafodils though. I think it lends a bit more importance to what we saw on Jo’s websight. And aren’t ‘Bluebells’ actually a type of flower? And daffodils? And other flower-type references? :) Also, I (think) I’ve read that daffodils are poisonous too, but I cant say for sure. I get them confused with dandelions…which you can make tea and wine with. Have to be very careful there! ;)

Gum... Door... could be the Longbottoms the key to open that mysterious door at the Dept of Mysteries? Could it be really the key for the final ending? Could be! What was the spell Lupin used to remove the gum btw? Can we find a connection somehow? :)

Go back to that picture of Peeves on JKR's official website, the little black-and white drawing that she did. Print off a copy of it, and hang it on the wall, then step back and stare at it for a while.

I hung that picture beside my computer, and the other day I realized that the folds of the paper (faint gray lines) make it look as if Peeves is sitting on someone's shoulder, like a ghost's shoulder. I think it my be the Bloody Baron. I would outline it and scan it back in, but I don't have a scanner.

Just try it - you'll see what I mean. The face of the "man" is to the right and behind Peeves, and the man is scowling. Peeves is sitting on his shoulder and you can see a tall, old-fashioned collar. To the left of Peeves seems to be a rectangular chest with something coming out of it. As I said, this is all in gray pencil-like markings that at first appear to be folds on the paper.How cool is that! Ya think there may have been a friendship with the Baron at some point? I think JKR mentioned that Peeves wasn’t a ghost. So apparently he has always been what he is…(whatever that is). The Baron otoh, is a ghost which means he was once human right? I dunno where I’m going with this but it might spark an idea from someone reading it. :)

On a different note….I saw a report on the news about the 6th book of the series. The report didn’t tell us much that we don’t already know except that I found it interesting that mainstream media is beginning to talk about the books again. Could this mean we are due for an announcement soon on a possible release? For some reason the month of November keeps bugging me. Ok, I admit it. I’m having HP book withdrawals here.

;)

whizbang121

October 9th, 2004, 11:11 pm

crosses fingers and hopes for book six.

Ralen

October 10th, 2004, 6:05 pm

I’m glad there are references in the books about Dafodils though. I think it lends a bit more importance to what we saw on Jo’s websight. And aren’t ‘Bluebells’ actually a type of flower? And daffodils? And other flower-type references? :) Also, I (think) I’ve read that daffodils are poisonous too, but I cant say for sure. I get them confused with dandelions…which you can make tea and wine with. Have to be very careful there! ;)

Could be! What was the spell Lupin used to remove the gum btw? Can we find a connection somehow?
Bluebells are definitely a type of flower. According to Bluebell - Hyacinthoides non-scripta (http://www.arkive.org/species/ARK/plants_and_algae/Hyacinthoides_non-scripta/) it is popuarly thought of as Britain's national flower. I can't think of how this may tie in with the story, but the bluebell's scientific name, Hyacinthoides relates to a greek mythology of the prince Hyacinthus who died in the arms of Apollo. The short of the story is that they were both playing discus. Hyacinthus went to fetch the discus that Apollo had thrown but it was blown off course (or thrown back from the earth depending on your version) at his head by Zephyrus which killed him. In his grief, Apollo made a flower from Hyacinthus' blood and inscripted the words AIAI (Alas) on the petals of this flower so that the cry of woe might forevermore have existence on the earth.

As my mind is blank, I can't relate these things back to the story right now. We know that Drooble's Best Blowing Gum produces bluebell-coloured bubbles which refuse to pop for days. In PS, Hermione's portable fire is also bluebell coloured. In OotP, the DE who gets his head warped is caused by a bell jar (I think this is reaching) but does any of this mean anything?

So far, gum, daffodils, bluebell bubbles, mirrors, are all displayed rather prominently on JKR's website (except for the bluebell bubbles). I think these are the things we've discussed recently. Peeves gets a fair bit of exposure on her website and we're currently discussing him now and his gum prank too. By the way Dr.Hesper, the spell used to get rid of the gum is "Waddiwasi".
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, but could the children's blocks "F, A and B" stand for Frank, Alice and Bellatrix?

I think I've made a fairly pointless post in that I've offered no theories or suggestions but I believe these are important dots that are rather hard to connect!

silver ink pot

October 10th, 2004, 6:05 pm

Whizbang: Thanks for scanning that picture! The "blank" unwrinkled part in the right bottom corner is the "back shoulder" of the person Peeves is sitting on. I can see it clearly just from the thumbnail in your post!

Dr. Hesper: The spell Lupin uses is in Prisoner of Azkaban, and is "Waddiwasi!" The reason he uses it is that Peeves has stuffed a keyhole full of gum, while taunting Lupin by calling him "Looney Loopy Lupin" and then Lupin does the spell that makes the gum shoot out of the keyhole and up Peeves nose. I have always thought that this scene ties Lupin to the gum, as well as Peeves.

However, the "flower connection" comes through Lupin as well, since a Lupin is a flower - indeed, a "Bluebell" which ties to the Drooble's Best Blowing Gum with the "amazing bluebell bubbles.

Another flower we have talked about is the "hellebore" or Christmas rose, which Harry forgets to put in his "Draught of Peace" in OotP. In this book I checked out (yes, Furry, I do look at things from the library :p - call me Hermione) there are some interesting things about Hellebore. It is actually poisonous and has a black root. Small amounts, as we have talked about before, were used in olden days to help cure things like madness and epilepsy, mania and "meloncholy." That is the connection to the Longbottoms - perhaps this draught could help them, and that is why Snape is teaching it to them?

The plant causes severe sneezing, but carrying a piece of the root in your pocket was thought to bring long life and scare away evil influences! Powdered Hellebore mixed with sugar was thought to rejuevenate old people. During the winter solstice twelve buds of the plant were placed in water to make a weather forecast. People who were betrothed often carried a piece of the root to ward off evil.

Hellebore/Christmas Rose ws "viewed as a symbol of being released from fear and so was used therapeutically." (The Language of Flowers, Marina Heilmeyer, page 24)

Now here is something new, and I need to find that Mimbulus Mimbletonia thread! There is a plant called "Humulus lupulus 'Aureus'" - or Golden Hop Vine. This is a plant called "hops" that is used in the production of beer, so it is really a common plant. We've always searched for "Lupinus" instead of "lupulus" so we've never come across this before. To tell you the truth, I found this by accident the other day while looking for something else.

Hops were used from medieval times to the present to treat headaches & insomnia & a wealth of other ailments. Hops have for centuries been regarded as an intoxicating hypnogen with a calming effect on the user. It was already grown in the United States by the early 1600s, & the Delawares, Cherokee, Moegans, & Fox tribes soon discovered that brewed as a tea, it settled nerves.

Not all the effects were necessarily positive. The term "hopping mad," which had already found its way into English literature by the 1660s, was probably first spoken in hop-cultivating centers like Kent, blaming hops for the drunken rages of "hoppers" who were the itinerant laborers who worked seasonally in the hop fields.

Hoppers were regarded as the lowest dregs of society, not only unsightly because of their poverty & lack of hygiene, but also for their arms, legs, & faces frequently being scarred by infected purple eruptions. Severe contact-dermatitis known as "hop-picker's disease" was caused by continuous exposure to the abrasive vines & the volatile oils of the strobials. To be "hopped up on drugs" or to be a "hophead" was very likely adapted from an older slang when applied to opium & heroin addicts, the poppy pod & its opiating effects being likened to hops, which are frequently alleged to be closely related to marijuana, though that notion is mere folklore.

Hops were once widely believed to be a cause melancholia & suicide. Superstitious moderns have reversed this old belief, so that in aromatherapy, the mere odor of hops is used as a treatment for depression. Even Abraham Lincoln had a little "hop pillow" to sleep against, the odor purportedly calming nerves & easing emotional gloom. The diametrically opposed beliefs that it causes suicidal depressions, or it calms the nerves, are not entirely disharmonious. If hops really can act as a downer, this could well induce calmness in some personalities, but inertia & misery in others.

. . . the bitter hop oil & resins known as lupulin (such as function as a preservative & provide the bittering in beers) does have antimicrobial properties that have been well studied & are certain. It has also been shown to be a credible treatment for gastritis.

Now here is the connection with our Professor Lupin. The hops vine gets its name from some "wolfish" myths. Remember that Professor Lupin offers Harry a butterbeer (which sounds alot like "bitter beer" - what hops is used for). Interestingly, the vine was supposed to kill "willows" as "wolves kill sheep." Lily of course has a willow wand, and then you have the Whomping Willow associated with Lupin, too.

Hops were already garden plants in Pliny's day, when ancient Romans grew them for their attractiveness, & to eat the young shoots in spring salads. Pliny is also the source of its species name lupulus because, he reported, the vine strangled & killed willows as wolves (lupus) killed sheep. The common name "hops" is itself very old, from the Anglo-Saxon hoppen, to climb.

The inspiration for genus name Humulus is uncertain & lost in time, though often said to be derived from humus ("soil") because it likes to grow in soil. Many have commented on what a silly explanation that is, since there's nothing about hop vines that suggest they more than other plants like to grow in soil. But since humulus & humus do share the same root origin in language, the magical or medicinal properties of hops could well have associated it from greatest antiquity with things cthonic (humus) associated with Man (homonid), since humanity itself was made from the earth. The hop vine was after all regarded as an "intoxicating vine" no less than were grapes for wine.

The Sumerian goddess Geshtinanna had rule of autumn vines. Her brother was Dumuzi. After Inanna brought him back out of the earth & restored him to life, he lay with Inanna, so that she gave birth to herbs, & afterward Dumuzi died back into the earth to dwell as the consort of Ereskigal, queen of the cthonic realm. Echoes of this myth track through all of recorded history, always with associations with vines & with strangling serpents, particularly in women's maenadic cults of Cybele & Dionysios. The meanads would wrap themselves in vines & serpents & imbibe all manner of mind-altering plants & brews before raging like wolves across the countryside, & raging goddesses & demonesses as varied as Artemis, Aphrodite, & even Lilith bore the epithet "wolfish" in ancient literature, prayers, & magical incantations.

So when Pliny said the hop vine strangled willows as wolves devour sheep, he was not over-reaching for a simile as first appears. The average Roman would already know the wolfish qualities of bacchantes & of Cybele, who was Magna Mater, the Great Mother of the Coleseum, to whom wolves & vines & serpents were sacred. Because the wolf was the symbol of all Rome, it was not invoked only for idle similes.

So in all, I believe it has been an error to search for separate origins for the ancient names Humulus & lupulus, as it is one word indicating the Cthonic Wolf Vine, a source simultaneously of healing & of melancholic madness, just as Cybele was the source of all life & happiness, & of all death & sorrow, as well as sober wisdom & intoxicated madness.

:huh: I'm fascinated to hear what you all think of this! I had never heard all this before! This made me think about Bode being strangled by a plant that Hermione said didn't look like Devil's snare. Maybe there are other magical vines that can strangle a person?

whizbang121

October 10th, 2004, 11:40 pm

Whizbang: Thanks for scanning that picture! No problem. :) I'll owl how to do it without a scanner or photo program. The "blank" unwrinkled part in the right bottom corner is the "back shoulder" of the person Peeves is sitting on. I can see it clearly just from the thumbnail in your post!

Dr. Hesper: The spell Lupin uses is in Prisoner of Azkaban, and is "Waddiwasi!" The reason he uses it is that Peeves has stuffed a keyhole full of gum, while taunting Lupin by calling him "Looney Loopy Lupin" and then Lupin does the spell that makes the gum shoot out of the keyhole and up Peeves nose. I have always thought that this scene ties Lupin to the gum, as well as Peeves. Ohhh..... Does it also tie Lupin and gum to Luna. I suspect the Luna may be Lupin's daughter. This is a clue I'd missed. Thanks!

Gwenog Jones

October 11th, 2004, 12:02 am

Ohhh..... Does it also tie Lupin and gum to Luna. I suspect the Luna may be Lupin's daughter. This is a clue I'd missed. Thanks!
Luna? Lupin's daughter? Interesting .. Is this the only clue towards this theory, or is there others? If so, share!

whizbang121

October 11th, 2004, 12:30 am

It's only a theory in a notebook, though I throw out bits sometimes. Hiding in Plain View started out being about initials. Sirius Black ~ Stubby Boardman, Peter Pettigrew ~ Piers Polkiss. The premise is that the marauders led double lives and used names with their own initials in their other "lives." Is Piers Polkiss, a boy who looks like a rat, Pettigrew's son? :huh:
We don't know Mr Lovegood's first name, but if it starts with R :huh: and he's Remus Lupin, Luna would be his daughter. I decided to really go out there on that limb, and speculate that her mother was Olivander's daughter, (their eyes are described similarly) and it's Mrs Lovegood's wand on the pillow of Olivander's shop.

:blush: See why I haven't made a big deal out of it? :D Very fanfic at this point. Need more info, like Mr Lovegood's first name.

furryfreakferret

October 11th, 2004, 3:14 am

Oh yeah! I see it! (Peeves sitting on a man's shoulder.) Thanks for the picture, whiz. Gosh, he's tiny.

inky (or Hermione, whichever you prefer), excellent research on the various plants! I never thought of linking Lupin up in the gum (except for that brief period where we were discussing him as possibly the two-faced man who had been giving the Longbottoms poisoned gum)! This new stuff with hops seems to fit him almost exactly (although if he does drink, I think it started only shortly after the death of Padfoot): dregs of society, soothing the nerves.... But the last bit with that stuff on Cybele, does that connect him to Trelawney? She's mad as well. whiz beat me to mentioning Luna. But, I have to argue against her being his daughter. We'd know if Lupin were crazy enough to run a magazine like the Quibbler. But then again.... I'm going to have to consider it and get back to you. I have this odd feeling... Harry thought Ron and Hermione meant Lupin when they were talking about "doing it themselves", didn't he, and he said Lupin couldn't make it up to Hogsmeade often enough to teach them defense against the dark arts?. For some reason I connect Luna with Hogsmeade, why is that? Does anyone have theories? I'd love to hear some reasons behind my insanity.

whizbang121

October 11th, 2004, 3:35 am

Oh yeah! I see it! (Peeves sitting on a man's shoulder.) Thanks for the picture, whiz. Gosh, he's tiny. There he is. I was looking at a Bug's Life face to the left of Peeves. The face to the right looks like the Foolish Magistrate from "Sagwa the Chinese Siamese Cat." Wow!
whiz beat me to mentioning Luna. But, I have to argue against her being his daughter. We'd know if Lupin were crazy enough to run a magazine like the Quibbler. But then again.... I'm going to have to consider it and get back to you. The whole thing is out there, I admit it. But we do know he his robes are patchy and he's not rich. And Luna's father doesn't own the Quibbler, he's the editor, I think. I have this odd feeling... Harry thought Ron and Hermione meant Lupin when they were talking about "doing it themselves", didn't he, and he said Lupin couldn't make it up to Hogsmeade often enough to teach them defense against the dark arts?. For some reason I connect Luna with Hogsmeade, why is that? Does anyone have theories? I'd love to hear some reasons behind my insanity. Okay.
I'll have to read that again. Luna with Hogsmeade.........

Sweet, kind Lupin literally "loses his mind" every full moon. He disppears and the wild, mad killer wolf runs howling in search of something to kill to tear apart.
This sounds like the old belief concerning hops.

But now with advances in potions, Lupin curls up and sleeps through the full moon, a calm and harmless wolf. The new definition?

Nicole

October 13th, 2004, 10:11 pm

Did my best to read SS through with some "keywords" in mind: gum, bubbles, chew(ing), blow(ing), and pop--added a few more as I encountered them and thought, well maybe: balloon, float(ing), poke (and poking), globe(s), and waft(ing). The word gum is used only once and that is to say Harry bought "Drooble's Best Blowing Gum" on the train to Hogwarts. [If I missed any references to the words listed it is because I did an eyeball search, I don't have the books on disc (are they available that way?).]

The only time the word "chewing" was used [as in Chewing Gum on JKR's web desk]: Ron says, "..He's [Scabbers is] chewing on my sheets."

Use of the word "pop" is associated with Peeves, Neville, Filch, and Dumbledore while the word "poking" is used by Harry and Ron.

For those in the last few posts wondering about Luna: there are "globes of the moon" stacked in a shop's windows in Diagon Alley; after Ron and Harry discuss "poking around", Harry pulls a map of Jupiter towards him "to learn the names of the moons." (I have to admit, I foolishly did not look for the word "moon" when thinking of this thread--see how long it takes me to read the book while doing a word search? Luna hadn't come up when I started!)

And almost as interesting as the solo use of the words "gum" and "chewing" was the lack of "bubbles"--the word was only used twice. Once to describe Harry's thoughts about the Quidditch goal posts and another when Flitwick is decorating Christmas trees, both seem mundane.

There were several instances of "balloon" that included the feeling in Harry's stomach, a noise made by Peeves (in the same paragraph as "pop"), and a Christmas cracker prize for Harry (a whole "pack of non-explodable, luminous balloons,..." followed by a snowball fight with the Weasleys...). The words "blow", "blown up", "blew" and "blowing" had the highest occurence, associated with Lily Potter, aliens (on Dudley's computer), a storm, a toilet, the Quidditch goals (see "bubbles"), a whistle (Madam Hooch's) and a flute.....

Maybe better stuff will show up in the next four books. Don't know why I expected clues to gum so early in the series, maybe I should have started with Book 5 and worked backwards to the beginning.

HarryPotter

October 14th, 2004, 12:32 am

We don't know Mr Lovegood's first name, but if it starts with R :huh: and he's Remus Lupin, Luna would be his daughter. Luna... and Lunatico... makes sense... (That's the Spanish name for Moony)
(Also works the other way... Moony and Moon...)

silver ink pot

October 14th, 2004, 6:29 am

SyirenSlytherin

October 14th, 2004, 6:47 am

eh, i don't buy the Luna Lupin connection. there's also the fact that the lovegoods were mentioned at having gone to the world cup as they live close enough to the burrow to use the same port key as the Weasleys and Diggorys, gave me the impression that Arthur at least knew of mr. Lovegood.

i wonder if Luna has a theory about the going ons at st.mongos

ComicBookWorm

October 14th, 2004, 6:58 am

I've got to agree with the last few posts showing that the relationship of Lupin to Luna is probably conjecture. But it is a fun idea--too bad.

Nicole

October 14th, 2004, 1:51 pm

NickyG: What a great word analysis! :) That must have taken some time - bravo!

I would just add two things that comes up in the books - the game, Exploding Snap, and the fact that Luna's rather protruding eyes are said to "pop"! Just thinking back on this thread, we've also talked about the Christmas lights on the tree that are like bubbles - we even researched the old-timey "bubble lights" that had water bubbling in them.

I don't know if Lupin and Luna are related. I change my mind daily about this. They are both described as "loony" - but there is caution in my mind about that connection, because at one point Ron describes Salazar Slytherin as "Loony" also - in CoS.

"I always knew Salazar Slytherin was a twisted old loony"- Ron, CoS, pg. 152, American.

Calling these three "loony" just seems odd to me, so maybe the Lupin-Luna connection is a red herring? It almost seems too obvious and easy. He's "Moony" and she's "Luna." Also, we know that Lupin was at Grimmauld Place all summer, and Luna was somewhere else. Yet Luna talks about her "Daddy" constantly. I can see Lupin being the Quibbler editor, and I can see why he wouldn't want anyone to connect his child to him because of the stigma of being a werewolf, but I'm not sure. Perhaps this is why JKR likes him so much, though - he is a single parent?

Also, in PoA, Lupin is at Hogwarts for Christmas, but no child of Luna's description is at Christmas dinner - isn't that sort of strange, unless she lives with her grandparents or something, which I think is a possibility.
Thanks, SIP, I thought no one would notice because the search really didn't turn up much in the way of clues. Hope I have more luck with the rest of the books, but my boys are out of school for the next few weekdays (plus, of course, the weekend) and we have some family plans that will not allow me much reading time [just tapping away here while they prepare themselves for the day, no hurry this a.m.!]. Any other suggestions for words to use? I will keep my eyes peeled for flowers and moons along with gum, blow, chew, balloon/globe/bubble, pop/poke (open the bubble, get the clue inside...), and float (keeping verb variety in mind). Someone mentioned ebooks for such searches, but I don't have them--anyone know anything about HP ebooks? :grumble:

Even if Lupin and Luna are not father/daughter, it doesn't preclude some other type of relatiionship. I know Remus does not have a twin (JKR website, 18 Feb., Rumours) and that he is half-blood (recent interview).....Thought I had read somewhere that he was also an only child, but maybe I am misinterpreting the twin thing (my head does odd things like that!) to read 'no siblings.' Anyhooooo, Luna could be a neice, cousin or cousin-once-removed quite easily. :p
Lupin does strike me as too conscientious to enter a marriage and produce a child when he is well aware of his condition and the danger it presents. [PoA he leaves the school so as not to endanger any of the students which includes Luna and Harry at the time....] Then again, love can make us do strange things and Lupin would have been in his very early twenties when Luna was born....Too bad we don't know what was going on with the Quibbler during PoA. :sad:

PS: SIP, did you ever check back on the sevages? It would seem you do qualify as one by their definition....That won't make you change your avatar, will it?

silver ink pot

October 14th, 2004, 1:57 pm

nickyG: Your children must be off for Fall Break - so are mine, and the mornings off are wonderful, but in the afternoon I have to wait in line for the computer.

I wish I had a list of all the "Peeves" references, but that is just me. I don't have an e-book, but I know that some of the big music download sites also have the books to download. Of course, whether that is legal or not - don't ask. I dream of a Harry Potter database with everything cross-referenced! :tu:

Luna could be a neice, cousin or cousin-once-removed quite easily.
Lupin does strike me as too conscientious to enter a marriage and produce a child when he is well aware of his condition and the danger it presents. [PoA he leaves the school so as not to endanger any of the students which includes Luna and Harry at the time....] Then again, love can make us do strange things and Lupin would have been in his very early twenties when Luna was born....Too bad we don't know what was going on with the Quibbler during PoA.

I thought about the uncle/neice relationship myself, and that would rule out his being her father - she probably wouldn't call her uncle, "Daddy." I have also wondered if Luna could be adopted, and therefore, have a different name due to that? Or perhaps werewolves aren't allowed to have sole custody of children, and we know Luna's mother is dead.

Oh, JKR - how you drive us all crazy! :sad: Talk to us about Luna!!!

Wonder why we never heard of the Quibbler till now, if Lupin is involved in it?

Nicole

October 14th, 2004, 2:03 pm

Most of the Peeves references in PS/SS involve the words I used, SIP. Do you want the page numbers? I was using the American mass market pb.

Actually, the boys are out of school for parent-teacher conferences and teacher workdays (report cards due soon).

The Lovegoods were mentioned before GoF, I think as having something happen to them in VWI....Probably some other Lovegoods than Luna's immediate family, though. It made me think there were Lovegoods in other areas than just near the Weasleys, but I don't remember why.

silver ink pot

October 14th, 2004, 2:10 pm

Most of the Peeves references in PS/SS involve the words I used, SIP. Do you want the page numbers? I was using the American mass market pb.

That is sweet of you to offer, but I have the American hardbacks - besides you shouldn't have to do all my work for me. :p If we wait long enough, someone online will do it anyway!

The Lovegoods were mentioned before GoF, I think as having something happen to them in VWI....Probably some other Lovegoods than Luna's immediate family, though. It made me think there were Lovegoods in other areas than just near the Weasleys, but I don't remember why.

The Lovegoods are mentioned by Amos Diggory as having left the day before them to go to the Quidditch World Cup. What I wonder is whether some of the wizards we see in the "tent city" scene at the Cup are actually Lovegoods? We see a boy named Kevin and his mother outside an "Egyptian Tent," and the old wizard named "Archie" who is wearing a flowered nightgown. There are also two little girls on brooms. No Luna in sight, though. :huh:

Nicole

October 14th, 2004, 2:24 pm

Well, that was through the eyes of the trio, Ginny wasn't with them to identify her. And, of course, the Lovegoods were not in the top box....

SIP, I can't find the thread where you were called a sevage--do you still object to the name? Will it make you change your avatar? (I hope not!)

silver ink pot

October 14th, 2004, 3:59 pm

nicky g: :p They were calling me that on the "James and Sirius: Not Bad People Thread." You may have to go back a page, or two. I'm not going to change my picture of Snape - don't worry! I get as many compliments about it as I do snide remarks. I'm not sure if JKR would approve, though, since she thinks he is a "bad boy." :evil:

I was being called a "sevage" for saying that James and Sirius were the bullies in the Pensieve scene, and that Snape didn't deserve the humiliation and near torture he got in that scene. But I didn't write that just because I like Snape's character, but because he is a victim. I was just taking up for the underdog in that scene. And based on the text, I don't think James and Sirius are "good people." But the fact that they are both dead makes it almost sacreligious to criticize them.

whizbang121

October 14th, 2004, 7:08 pm

I've got to agree with the last few posts showing that the relationship of Lupin to Luna is probably conjecture. But it is a fun idea--too bad. Yeah, it's a short walk to fanfic. But I'm still watching it. In fact, I've got my eye on the whole initials thing.

I wish I had a list of all the "Peeves" references, but that is just me. I don't have an e-book, but I know that some of the big music download sites also have the books to download. Of course, whether that is legal or not - don't ask. I dream of a Harry Potter database with everything cross-referenced! :tu: Even beyond legal, it's not very safe. Lots of evil nastyware out there.
I thought about the uncle/neice relationship myself, and that would rule out his being her father - she probably wouldn't call her uncle, "Daddy." I have also wondered if Luna could be adopted, and therefore, have a different name due to that? Or perhaps werewolves aren't allowed to have sole custody of children, and we know Luna's mother is dead.

Oh, JKR - how you drive us all crazy! :sad: Talk to us about Luna!!! The description of her eyes being similar to the description of Olivander's is intriguing. And the wand on the faded pillow in the window ....... Interestingly, Luna and her Dad were going on an expedition during the summer. That may be how we find our answer.

Somehow, the idea that a werewolf would be open to the possible existence of Snorkack Whatchamkallits and other "out there" stuff seems appealing. And I think Lupin would be a wonderful father for a dreamy eyed Ravenclaw like Luna.

http://websmileys.com/sm/happy/1197.gif If there's anything to this, I wonder if Luna's mother was working on the potion that became whatever it is Lupin takes every month to sleep through the full moon?

I'd open a thread to discuss this theory, but there's so little to grasp at that ........

And I guess it is off topic here, unless Alice Longbottom's maiden name was Olivander, or she's Remus' cousin on the magical side of the family.

As he's a half blood, I also wondered if Remus knew Lily outside the magical world?

Wonder why we never heard of the Quibbler till now, if Lupin is involved in it?Well, the original "hiding in plain view: initials" theory that this came out of, suggests that the marauders had double lives and were living undercover with different names, but the same initials. (It's mentioned in various places that Sirius, Peter and the Potters were all "in hiding.") Thus Stubby Boardman - Sirius Black. I'm stretching it to include a connection between Peter Pettigrew and Piers Polkiss, a rat faced boy, and between Remus Lupin and Mr Lovegood. If they were undercover (wizard undercover protection program :lol: ), we might not hear about the Quibbler as most in the wizard world wouldn't connect it with Lupin at all?

Besides, who would buy a newspaper from a werewolf?

furryfreakferret

October 14th, 2004, 8:15 pm

I've always thought there was more to Luna than meets the eye. I think that's what subconciously makes me connect her to everything: Hogsmeade, Godric Gryffindor.... But that quote inky found about Salazar Slytherin being "looney" seems intriguing as well. She has silvery eyes, doesn't she? Interesting.

I'm not sure I can buy into Lupin being Luna's father just yet, but some relation would be pretty easy to accomplish if all the pureblood families are "interrelated", as Sirius mentions. Lupin seemed pretty responsible even when surrounded by people like James and Sirius, so I don't know if I can see him having a child when he knows the, ah, circumstances. But you've all drawn up excellent points. If Mrs. Lovegood/Lupin were working on the Wolfsbane Potion... maybe she was trying to make it stronger? Was it ever mentioned how recently it was discovered? Maybe we ought to start looking for similarities in the descriptions of the two.

No, just thinking about it. I think I see her as a nearer relation to Mr. Ollivander, who has some relation to Slytherin. Remember how Harry was very uncertain about whether or not he liked/trusted (I can't remember the exact wording at the moment) Mr. Ollivander? Oh, yes, it's all coming together. Now... how to weave Lupin in.... And when's Luna's birthday? :whistle:

silver ink pot

October 15th, 2004, 12:55 am

I hate to burst everyone's bubble (sorry for the pun considering what thread this is :evil: ), but Aunt Petunia is described as having "large pale eyes" just like Mr. Ollivander. That seems like a closer connection than Lupin.

"Back?" whispered Petunia.
She was looking at Harry as she had never looked at him before. . . .Aunt Petunia had never in her life looked at Harry like that before. Her large pale eyes (so unlike her sister’s) were not narrowed in dislike or anger. They were wide and fearful. The furious pretense that Aunt Petunia had maintained all Harry’s life — that there was no magic . . . seemed to have fallen away. (p37-8, US edition)

I don't think we know Lupin's eye color, do we?

Also, since we are speculating, Luna seems to have alot of characteristics of a "hare" or "rabbit" - another creature associated with the moon in mythology. Luna has the radish earrings and sort of protruberant eyes that stay open all the time - Harry notices that she doesn't seem to blink very often. Baby hares are born with their eyes open. Plus, her whole personality is "through the looking glass" - you know? I guess I have trouble with the idea of a "wolf" having a child who is like a "hare."

The following is from a rather long article with lots more than I could copy here about hare mythology.

http://www.geocities.com/annafranklin1/hare.html
The hare was used as a divinatory animal as young hares are born with their eyes open and never again close them, even to blink or sleep. Boudicca released a hare from beneath her cloak to predict the outcome of battles. Roman divined from its movements and its flesh was denied to ordinary mortals.

. . . The hare is associated with madness, especially during the mating season when the animals may be seen boxing or leaping in the air and are said to resemble a coven of witches dancing. Like many animals sacred to the older religions, the Mediaeval Christians changed the hare into an animal of ill omen, saying witches shape shifted into hare form to suck cows dry. Stories abound of wounds inflicted on hares being found the next day on a woman. It was claimed that a witch in hare form could only be killed by a silver crucifix or bullet. The hare is the commonest witch familiar the world over. As late as the 19th century Brittany peasants would not speak of the animal and in Wales killing a hare was taboo. In the South West of England and in Kerry in Ireland peasants would not eat them.

The white hare is considered a ghostly or moon animal. This is not surprising as spirit hares do indeed appear with white auras. It was thought the appearance of a white hare was a death omen. A Cornish superstition says a young girl who dies after being abandoned by her lover will turn into a white hare to pursue her faithless love. In Christian lore the white hare, portrayed at the feet of the Virgin Mary, symbolises the triumph over passions. In Europe the white hare symbolises snow and the White Goddess of Winter.

http://www.beal-net.com/laluna/hare.html

Lunar mythology and rabbit folklore are inextricably intertwined. Often we will see a correlation between hares and the moon and moonlight, moon deities, and qualities which we attribute to lunar energy, such as intuition, renewal and immortality. According to some folktales, rabbits conceive simply by looking at the moon, or by licking each other’s fur. Both hares and the moon are perceived as fickle since they never appear in the same place or shape for two nights in a row. They are both surprising and varied characters. The hare pops his head up in the forest and then quickly fleets away. Hares are never seen walking but are always leaping about. This is one reason why hares are also associated with witches, who often are well versed in moon magic, are flighty and intuitive, and are able to shapeshift.

whizbang121

October 15th, 2004, 4:07 am

I had no idea that rabbits were the most common familiar. JKR's first book was called Rabbit, and I think she had rabbits recently as she mentioned cleaning their cages in an interview.
--- An old man was standing before them, his wide, pale eyes shining like moons through the gloom of the shop.

--- Harry wished he would blink. Those silvery eyes were a bit creepy.

--- Harry could see himself reflected in those misty eyes.

--- Mr. Ollivander fixed Harry with his pale stare.

--- (Luna) had straggly, waist-length, dirty blonde hair, very pale eyebrows and protuberant eyes that gave her a permanently surprised look.

--- She did not seem to need to blink as much as normal humans.

--- Luna turned her pale eyes on him instead.

--- Luna Lovegood's popping eyes

--- Her prominent eyes swam with tears

--- He could see the bat-winged horses reflected in her wide silvery eyes.
This is interesting."The Prophet exists to sell itself, you silly girl," she said coldly.

"My dad thinks it's an awful paper," said Luna, chipping into the conversation unexpectedly. Sucking on her cocktail onion, she gazed at Rita with her enormous, protuberant, slightly mad eyes. "He publishes important stories he thinks the public needs to know. He doesn't care about making money."
I like the slightly mad ( loony) part. ;) Wide, pale, silvery, unblinking, and both connected to the moon.

Petunia's eyes are also large and pale.

Makes ya wonder. :agree:

offca

October 15th, 2004, 8:53 am

I can't buy the father Lupin theory... It would be just too strange. He was a teacher there for a year! Why would they pretend they don't know each other? Or why Luna's father couldn't be Mr.Lovegood? I can't see any reason for that. The closenest of names (Luna/Lupin) is rather accidental - they both are needed, but for different reasons. I guess Luna - because she is a bit "loony", and misterious, misty - like Moon.
why Lupin is close to the Moon we all know ;-)

I like your comprarison to Mr.Olivander! That makes much more sense to me, then Petunia's eyes... there is more people with grey eyes - Malfoy, Sirius. There was somwhere this theory , that pure-bloods have grey eyes.
Grey, cold eyes are strange - they make impression of coldness, danger, mistery (or maybe it is just me).

btw - where have you lost gum wrappers?

whizbang121

October 15th, 2004, 2:14 pm

They're simmering in a cauldron. ;)
We know th Weasleys are purebloods and Ginny's eyes are brown and Mr Weasley's are blue. Draco has gray eyes like his father.

silver ink pot

October 15th, 2004, 5:25 pm

Mrs. Weasley's eyes are very dark. Her eyes are described much like Snape's eyes - sort of piercing, "boring," etc.

I don't think you can tell who is related to whom by eye color. There is more to it with Luna and Ollivander - the eyes are misty and they don't blink. That is more unusual.

Where are the gum wrappers? LOL. We are so off topic it isn't funny! I have to take some of the blame, don't I.

Now my mind is a blank about the gum. :sad:

whizbang121

October 15th, 2004, 5:59 pm

Maybe we've been so tqken with the flowers that we've missed the importance of the color, blue. Dumbledore's light blue eyes?

furryfreakferret

October 15th, 2004, 8:29 pm

And now we're back to eyes. My, this thread does travel in circles. Unfortuantely, my gum wrappers seem also to have been misplaced. I think Alice stole them. But I will mention this, isn't it odd that both hares and werewolves can only be killed with a silver bullet? :huh: Good catches with Petunia and the hare references. Now, about Dumbledore... weren't their theories involving him before? Or maybe noted similarities? Like the fact that their always humming? I seem to recall something about a bumblebee coming in to talk in the Longbottoms' ears. Which I think led to turnips. Are they related to radishes or onions in any way?

silver ink pot

October 15th, 2004, 11:54 pm

A turnip is shaped like a radish - it is like a big radish! Didn't someone post that a "turnip" is another name for pocket watch? So when it is said that Stubby Boardman got hit on the ear with a turnip, it might have been a pocket watch someone threw at him?

Just free associating:

We see alot of insects on JKR's site - insects like flies, bees, wasps - are attracted to sticky sweet things like gum.

There is a chapter in "Through the Looking Glass" in which a gnat talks to her in her ear.
"Looking Glass Insects"
http://www.sabian.org/Alice/lgchap03.htm

There's the old adage, "You catch more flies with honey, than vinegar."

Fly paper is sticky like gum. Gum is like glue. It gets stuck on your shoes, also, which is highly irritating.

People often stick gum on the bottom of desks, and kids are notorious for sticking book pages together with gum. Those are both reasons for gum not being allowed in school.

Originally, gum was made from tree sap, like spruce gum. My elderly relatives have talked about chewing sap from a tree called a sweet gum ( I have one in my yard - never tried the sap, though :blush: ).

OK - what if Alice kept a journal and had the place marked with a gum wrapper, or saved one in her journal? What if Alice sent Lily a letter with a suspicious gum wrapper in it, asking her whose she thought it might be?

Better: What if James chewed gum and without thinking threw the wrapper down outside Godric's Hollow, so when Voldemort came he found the house?

I just have a feeling that Harry is going to find a gum wrapper that matters somehow in either the story of his parents or the story of Neville's parents - or both. JKR mentioned keeping old manuscripts in the same box with her electric bills and her gum wrappers. In OotP, half the cupboards at Grimmauld Place still haven't been opened - I find that interesting and hopeful. And what about Sirius - won't Harry inherit some papers from him, since he had not son of his own? I hope so.

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 12:49 am

And now we're back to eyes. My, this thread does travel in circles. Unfortuantely, my gum wrappers seem also to have been misplaced. I think Alice stole them. Interesting. Alice's eyes are mentioned in the gum wrapper scene. Neville's mother had come edging down the ward in her nightdress. She no longer had the plump, happy-looking face Harry had seen in Moody's old photograph of the original Order of the Phoenix. Her face was thin and worn now, her eyes seemed overlarge and her hair, which had turned white, was wispy and dead-looking. She did not seem to want to speak, or perhaps she was not able to, but she made timid motions towards Neville, holding something in her outstretched hand.

"Again?" said Mrs. Longbottom, sounding slightly weary. "Very well, Alice dear, very well - Neville, take it, whatever it is."

But Neville had already stretched out his hand, into which his mother dropped an empty Drooble's Best Blowing Gum wrapper.

"Very nice, dear," said Neville's grandmother in a falsely cheery voice, patting his mother on the shoulder.

But Neville said quietly, "Thanks, Mum."

His mother tottered away, back up the ward, humming to herself. Neville looked around at the others, his expression defiant, as though daring them to laugh, but Harry did not think he'd ever found anything less funny in his life.

"Well, we'd better get back," sighed Mrs. Longbottom, drawing on long green gloves. "Very nice to have met you all. Neville, put that wrapper in the bin, she must have given you enough of them to paper your bedroom by now."

But as they left, Harry was sure he saw Neville slip the sweet wrapper into his pocket.

The door closed behind them.And humming, too.

OK - what if Alice kept a journal and had the place marked with a gum wrapper, or saved one in her journal? What if Alice sent Lily a letter with a suspicious gum wrapper in it, asking her whose she thought it might be?

That's brilliant!
I use the dam*est things for bookmarks. If I was a gum chewer, there would probably be a few wrappers in every book in the house. And in GoF, Harry missed fake Moody's hint in Neville's Herb book. Are we (or Neville) missing a clue in a book somewhere?

silver ink pot

October 16th, 2004, 1:00 am

Gwenog Jones

October 16th, 2004, 1:09 am

Maybe she had something important written on a gum wrapper and she lost it because she is just like Neville? Remember when he lost all the passwords and got punished when Sirius Black broke in? Is that a parallel?
Hmm, maybe she has a gum wrapper marking the place of something important that she had lost, and all she remembers is that she kept the place with a gum wrapper.
I have absolutely used a gum wrapper as a bookmark before. :agree:
me too :)

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 1:35 am

Interesting direction. Hmmm......
Frank and Alice were aurors. What books might she have around the house?

What were the books Sirius and Lupin gave Harry for Xmas in OotP?

silver ink pot

October 16th, 2004, 1:40 am

:wow: We are so dumb! Doh! Have we ever gone this way before?

Auror = Police = Detective = Gumshoe!!!

Gumshoe [n. GUM-shoo]
We now use the word gumshoe to informally describe a person who works as a private investigator or detective but the original gumshoe was quite literally something people would wear on their feet.
Gumshoes in the late 1800s were shoes or boots made of gum rubber. Precursors to contemporary sneakers, these shoes were soft-soled and quieter than other shoes available at the time. At the start of the 1900s, "to gumshoe" meant to sneak around quietly.
Later the word referred to either thieves or the police who caught the crooks. By 1908 the word almost exclusively described the good guys, the people who investigated the crimes by acting stealthily or surreptiously.

Is Alice trying to tell Neville that there is a dirty cop somewhere?

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 1:43 am

Uh oh. :wow:

Gwenog Jones

October 16th, 2004, 1:44 am

The book was titled Practical Defensive Magic and Its Use Against the Dark Arts

Is Alice trying to tell Neville that there is a dirty cop somewhere?
Good catch silver ink pot. This gives us something else to think about.. :huh:

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 1:49 am

Why a dirty cop? Maybe she's telling him to read the Moonstone.

That's the one. Thanks. :agree:

Let's see. Aurors work in the Dept of Magical Law Enforcement, right?

Gwenog Jones

October 16th, 2004, 1:51 am

Let's see. Aurors work in the Dept of Magical Law Enforcement, right?
I would think so..

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 1:55 am

She's given Neville enough empty gum wrappers to paper his bedroom.

When JKR was expecting her second child, she gave up smoking for her child and began to chew gum as a substitute.

Chewing gum helped her to protect her baby from the toxins in cigarette smoke.

Nicole

October 16th, 2004, 2:01 am

Whiz: Good catch on Alice's eyes! And I didn't think about Neville's water plant book - another good one! Maybe Alice had a spell book and she marked a place with a gum wrapper?

Maybe she had something important written on a gum wrapper and she lost it because she is just like Neville? Remember when he lost all the passwords and got punished when Sirius Black broke in? Is that a parallel?

I have absolutely used a gum wrapper as a bookmark before. :agree:

And thinking of my own mother, she used to use a kleenex or a toothpick - two of Harry's Christmas presents from the Dursleys! ;)
Too funny on the bookmarkers, everyone! Wish I could pass all of you the leftover markers from my wedding--mushy poem on it, though.

Just FYI, SIP: Neville didn't lose the list of passwords, Crookshanks stole it. :p But we know he has a poor memory (but perhaps that is improving along with the rest of his characteristics).

The gumshoe idea will spur more discussion. Do we have a list of known aurors yet?

Auror list:

Alastor Moody, retired
Nymphadora Tonks, newbie/rookie
Williamson (red robes, long hair in ponytail), ?
Kingsley Shacklebolt, veteran
Dawlish, assumed veteran

I think some are missing.....

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 2:03 am

Droobles is blowing (bubble?) gum, but thw wrappers on the website don't appear to be. In fact, most of them are green and look like Doublemint gum, at least here in the US.
"Double your pleasure
Double your fun
With Doublegood, Doublegood
Doublemint Gum."

There are usually a gorgeous set of twins. It used to be always girls, but lately I think there are boys, too.

Twins.

Protection from toxins.

Does Neville have a twin?

Gran or Uncle Algie would have told him.

Nicole

October 16th, 2004, 2:05 am

And just to add some more: Tonks, Moody and Shacklebolt are known members of the Order (known to us, the readers).

Rats, I thought we were going to look for the bad cop (gumshoe).

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 2:11 am

Wish I could pass all of you the leftover markers from my wedding--mushy poem on it, though. :huh: Hmmmm.......
Well, Lockhart has learned joinedup writing. Maybe Alice has, too.
The gumshoe idea will spur more discussion. Do we have a list of known aurors yet?

Auror list:

Alastor Moody, retired
Nymphadora Tonks, newbie/rookie
Williamson (red robes, long hair in ponytail), ?
Kingsley Shacklebolt, veteran
Dawlish, assumed veteran

I think some are missing..... Sorry I wen off on a tangant. Maybe there's a gumwrapper in Neville's baby book, if wizards have such things.

Bad cop? Tonks. Everyone trusts her, and her klutziness makes her seem inept. :eyebrows:

Of course, I think Mrs Weasley is in league with Voldemort, so don't go by me. :lol:

silver ink pot

October 16th, 2004, 2:12 am

The book was titled Practical Defensive Magic and Its Use Against the Dark Arts

Good catch silver ink pot. This gives us something else to think about.. :huh:

Thank you! :blush: My whole family is at a football game tonight, and my house is so quiet I can think for a change.

Whiz: I didn't mean that you are dumb - or that any of us are. Sorry about that - I just got excited and wrote that because I couldn't believe we had never thought of it before - we've been on this thread forever!

I was thinking about "The Moonstone" today when Barmy Codger on the Alchemy Thread was talking about rose images, and rose windows in Cathedrals. The rose used is the five-petaled rose called the "dog rose" - which is the one the Detective Cuff in the Moonstone is always talking about.

Whoa - all this is whirling in my head! :wow:

I always forget about the Longbottoms being Aurors, but they are like the cops of the Wizarding World, right? I think I'll watch some of my "Dirty Harry" movies tonight and try to get some clues, lol.

Tonks tells Harry she almost flunked "Stealth and Tracking" - clearly "gumshoe" subjects.

Good List, nicky G! At least looking at it from an "auror" standpoint is a new angle. Maybe JKR will give us a little clue on her website, too. Please, JKR?

Nicole

October 16th, 2004, 2:22 am

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it is Tonks as the spy.

I still think some auror is missing. The one Tonks thought was asking funny questions, or something like that.

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 2:26 am

Thank you! :blush: My whole family is at a football game tonight, and my house is so quiet I can think for a change. How lucky can you get? Well, the Red Sox got rained out, so my attention is reasonably undivided, too. (And I'm not weeping and fogging up my glasses.)
Whiz: I didn't mean that you are dumb - or that any of us are. Sorry about that - I just got excited and wrote that because I couldn't believe we had never thought of it before - we've been on this thread forever! What did I say?! :scared: The difficulty of this form of communication is that misunderestimating is so easy. :blush: I didn't mean to suggest anything like that. :no: I love brainstorming. And gumshoes. :agree: And you're one of the best, SIP! So just ignore me. I probably won't be quiet, but ..... :D
I was thinking about "The Moonstone" today when Barmy Codger on the Alchemy Thread was talking about rose images, and rose windows in Cathedrals. The rose used is the five-petaled rose called the "dog rose" - which is the one the Detective Cuff in the Moonstone is always talking about.Dog rose?
Whoa - all this is whirling in my head! :wow:

I always forget about the Longbottoms being Aurors, but they are like the cops of the Wizarding World, right? I think I'll watch some of my "Dirty Harry" movies tonight and try to get some clues, lol. Is it just me, or is there also the impression that they're like both cops and the national guard. At least during the last war, I got a sense of aurors also acting in military ways.
Tonks tells Harry she almost flunked "Stealth and Tracking" - clearly "gumshoe" subjects. How inept. :eyebrows: :lol:
Good List, nicky G! At least looking at it from an "auror" standpoint is a new angle. Maybe JKR will give us a little clue on her website, too. Please, JKR?Sigh. We could be so lucky.

silver ink pot

October 16th, 2004, 2:31 am

Auror list:

Alastor Moody, retired
Nymphadora Tonks, newbie/rookie
Williamson (red robes, long hair in ponytail), ?
Kingsley Shacklebolt, veteran
Dawlish, assumed veteran

I think some are missing.....

nickyg: I think there have to be some missing.

One is a woman whose cubicle is right beside Kingsley's - "a witch with a patch over her eye."

The one you are thinking of is "Scrimgoeur" - it's a he:

OotP, pg. 122, American:

Lupin: "What were ou saying about Scrimgeour?"

Tonks: "Oh . . . yeah . . . well, we need to be a bit more careful, he's been asking Kingsley and me funny questions . . . "

Maybe he's the rotten auror? What a name!!!

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 2:31 am

Yeah, I wouldn't be surprised if it is Tonks as the spy.

I still think some auror is missing. The one Tonks thought was asking funny questions, or something like that. Was that when they left Grimmauld for the train station?

silver ink pot

October 16th, 2004, 2:37 am

Whiz: Tonks, Lupin and Sirius are talking in the kitchen about Scrimgeour on the morning of Harry's hearing. Then he goes to the MOM with Mr. Weasley and sees the other aurors, including Kingsley and the witch with the eyepatch - name unknown :huh: .

Nicole

October 16th, 2004, 2:41 am

So bad cop (auror) choices could be:

Auror list:

Alastor Moody, retired
Nymphadora Tonks, newbie/rookie
Williamson (red robes, long hair in ponytail), ?
Kingsley Shacklebolt, veteran
Dawlish, assumed veteran
Scrimgeour, assumed veteran?
unknown witch (eyepatch), assumed veteran (because of injury similar to Moody's)

silver ink pot

October 16th, 2004, 2:54 am

I just found a website dedicated to the Clan Scrimgeour - they have a long illustrious history in Scotland. Maybe I spoke too hastily in putting him forward as a candidate. I know nothing about Scottish history:

http://www.scrimgeourclan.org.uk/

The family "badge" shows a hand bearing a sword, with the word "Dissipate" -

Anyone of the name or of Scrimgeour descent may wear the Clan Badge, shown above. The Latin motto has a different meaning from its English equivalent; it means 'scatter' or 'disperse' (presumably the enemy!).

The name was originally perhaps a nickname, Skirmisher. meaning 'hardy fighter', or more likely a version of escrimeur, French for swordsman.

The Scrimgeours were for many years closely connected with Dundee; until the 17th Century they retained the title of 'Constable of Dundee and many Provosts of that City were Scrimgeours. The town residence, Dudhope Castle, was wrongfully taken from the lawful owners in the 17th Century (see below) and never recovered. They also had extensive lands in Argyll which justifies the Scrimgeour claim (approved by the Lyon Court) to be a 'Highland Clan'.

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 2:54 am

Are we sure that Scrimgeour is an auror?
I've been raiding the Lexicon. Aurors

The Aurors are an elite group of witches and wizards who battle against the Dark Arts. They operate in some ways as soldiers but more often as intelligence agents, seeking out Dark Wizards and defeating them, often in fierce wizard duels. Alastor Moody and Frank and Alice Longbottom were famous Aurors. Aurors are sometimes refered to as Dark Wizard Catchers.

The Aurors were responsible for bringing to justice many of the Dark Wizards who supported Voldemort during the 1970s. They also battled the giants, killing many and driving the rest from Britain. Under the leadership of Bartemius Crouch Sr., the Head of the Department of Magical Law Enforcement after Voldemort's defeat, the Aurors were given sweeping powers. These powers allowed the Aurors to bypass the normal channels of justice and kill or capture enemy wizards using means nearly as vicious as those used by the Dark Wizards they fought. Sirius Black was imprisoned during this time without a trial because of these policies.

Auror Headquarters is located on Level Two of the Ministry of Magic. It consists of a series of open cubicles, each Auror being assigned a space to work. The cubicles are decorated with pictures of known Dark Wizards, maps, clippings from the Daily Prophet, and other odds and ends. Kingsley Shacklebolt's cubicle is located down on the end (OP

Barty Crouch Jr., in disguise as Moody, told Harry and Hermione that they had what it took to be Aurors (GF). Harry told McGonagall that he wanted to be an Auror after leaving Hogwarts.

Training to be an Auror takes three years after leaving Hogwarts. An Auror-to-be must pass tests in Stealth and in Disguise, among other things. (OP

Known Aurors:
Alastor "Mad-Eye" Moody
Frank Longbottom
Alice Longbottom
Kingsley Shacklebolt
Dawlish
Nymphadora Tonks
Witch with eyepatch

Hit Wizards
The Department of Magical Law Enforcement maintains squads of trained Hit Wizards whose job it is to capture dangerous Wizard criminals. A group of these Hit Wizards captured Sirius Black after he supposedly killed Peter Pettigrew. The Hit Wizards are not the same as Aurors. Hit Wizards, it would seem, are sent primarily against criminals while Aurors track down and capture Dark Wizards.

Gwenog Jones

October 16th, 2004, 3:02 am

Yeah, I don't think Neville has a twin. That isn't something you would keep from a kid.

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 3:06 am

I agree. I renounce that one, completely. :lol:

silver ink pot

October 16th, 2004, 3:06 am

Whiz: You may be right. On HPL, I did a search for the name, and it just calls him a "Ministry Wizard" and mentions the Scottish Clan.

Also, a "Brutus Scrimgeour" is mentioned in Quidditch Through the Ages because he wrote a book called "The Beater's Bible."

"Brutus" may be a clue - don't you think? Sounds traitorous to me!

I just assumed that since he was talking to two aurors - Tonks and Shacklebolt - that he might be their supervisor.

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 3:09 am

Well, I have a really good feeling about Shacklebolt, so it's probably him. :rolleyes:

Gwenog Jones

October 16th, 2004, 3:11 am

Do you really? I never felt any suspicions with him, but then again I never pick up on those things until afterwards :)

Dedalus Diggle

October 16th, 2004, 3:26 am

Do you really? I never felt any suspicions with him, but then again I never pick up on those things until afterwards :)
No, Gwenog, Whiz was saying that if she trusts someone, they'll turn out to be evil (see my 6thyear fanfic for evil Shacklebolt). After all she's the proponent of that silly evil-Molly theory. And Whiz, since you're already carrying the burden of so many absurd theoiries, you can blame the Neville's-twin one on me.

Okay, now some help - it's my turn to start a stupid theory. Have Snape and Lucius Malfoy been seen together? I can't believe Snape could show up with the DEs as himself, but with his occlumency, I could believe him masquerading even in his mind as someone else, and for him, polyjuice would be liking mixing a white-hot venom (the official beverage of the Layers threads :p ).

Dr Hesper

October 16th, 2004, 9:36 am

Is Alice trying to tell Neville that there is a dirty cop somewhere? Interesting connection! I wonder if Neville would know what a ‘gumshoe’is? ;) Personally I still like the idea that at some point someone can use a spell to cause Neville’s gum wrapper collection to rearrange themselves (like the bricks at Diagon Ally) and form words that will give the kids some information.

Okay, now some help - it's my turn to start a stupid theory. Have Snape and Lucius Malfoy been seen together? I can't believe Snape could show up with the DEs as himself, but with his occlumency, I could believe him masquerading even in his mind as someone else, and for him, polyjuice would be liking mixing a white-hot venom (the official beverage of the Layers threads …That’s a good question! I wondered about that a long time ago, but got off on some other topic and never got back to it. This would obviously bring up the fact that Draco is Malfoy’s son and if Snape were really in league with the Order….well, that could lead to problems. OTOH, if Malfoy was Snape in disguise (acting as a spy for DD), what sort of harm could he be doing to the boy Draco? I dunno… :sad:

whizbang121

October 16th, 2004, 3:20 pm

And Whiz, since you're already carrying the burden of so many absurd theoiries, you can blame the Neville's-twin one on me. Whew. Thanks. I renounced it anyway. :lol: Is it an 'evil twin?"
Whizzes off to count absurd theories. ;)
Okay, now some help - it's my turn to start a stupid theory. Have Snape and Lucius Malfoy been seen together? I think they have, though. I'll check.

And wasn't Lucius in school with Bellatrix and Co, a couple of years ahead of Snape and the marauders? He's reportedly 41 years old and Snape and the marauders are in their late thirties.

I remember a passage about Snape and Malfoy talking somewhere in Hogwarts, but I can't remember what book it was in. I avoid fanfic for this reason, but I have read a couple :D and I may be remembering wrong.

GredandFeorge

October 16th, 2004, 9:40 pm

You know I'm racking my brains here. It's kind of assumed that Snape and Malfoy the elder are in communication, but you know, I don't think we ever see them in the same room at the same time...very fishy...

silver ink pot

October 16th, 2004, 10:01 pm

Well, in the movie of CoS, Snape and Malfoy are sitting together. Why did JKR let that happen? It makes everyone think they are best friends, though, to be fair, they don't realy seem that friendly in the movie scene, and it shows Malfoy, Sr., to be the scum he is.

In my opinion, Snape might have been "Malfoy in Disguise" in the graveyard in GoF, but I don't think anyone is sayng that Snape is "Malfoy in Disguise" at the DOM in OotP - that would be going too far.

At any rate:

Here are some anagrams for "Scrimgeour" - notice the word "gum" is found in his name. There are alot of good ones!:

CURER GISMO (?)

O GRIM CURSE
O CURSE GRIM (?)

CIRROUS GEM (?) - "cloud gem"

CURIOS GERM - that reminds me of Grimmauld Place!

I SCOUR GERM

I'M SCOURGER

OR CRIES GUM
OR RICES GUM
GUM CORE SIR
I GUM SCORER

Here is one for BarmyCodger, who is reading Robinson Crusoe!

GRIM CRUSOE :tu:

GRIM COURSE
GRIM SOURCE

The word "cur" is in the list over and over too. Here is the link to the anagrams if anyone wants to look:

http://www.wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=scrimgeour

TashiGrumblewig

October 17th, 2004, 12:56 am

If it is a bad cop, wouldn't it have been someone from Alice and Franks time? That would take Tonks, and anyone appointed after the day the Longbottoms were attacked, out. If they are trying to pass Neville clues through the wrappers about a bad cop, that person does not currently have to hold their previous position of being an "officer" either. They could now be, say... the current Minister of Magic? Wasn't Fudge first on the scene to capture Sirius? I don't believe he was an auror, just ambitious and in Magical Law Enforcement, possibly. (I don't have my books with me right now, so if anyone can come up with the canon, I would appreciate it. Thank you.)

Nicole

October 17th, 2004, 3:08 am

Fudge was "Junior Minister in the department of Magical Catastrophes at the time" of Sirius and Peter's duel in the street.

Good point on the bad cop being someone who was bad back in Alice and Frank's time!

Other lines by Fudge (PoA, Chapter 10): "Nobody but trained Hit Wizards from the Magical Law Enforcement Squad would have stood a chance against Black once he was cornered." "I was one of the first on the scene after Black murdered all those people."

Also note that the Aurors are on the floor for the Department of Magical Law Enforcement, listed as being in Auror Headquarters. (OotP, chapter 7)

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 3:14 am

I wonder if Moody's photo of the Order "back when" is any help.

Dumbledore loves sweets. But no mention of him chewing gum.

....................

Nicole

October 17th, 2004, 3:50 am

I wonder if Moody's photo of the Order "back when" is any help.

Dumbledore loves sweets. But no mention of him chewing gum.

....................
It would probably get stuck in his beard! :p

The only people mentioned as being in the photo that are also known Aurors are Moody and the two Longbottoms. Sturgis Podmore, what does he do?

Aoweil

October 17th, 2004, 4:02 am

From HP Lexicon:

"Podmore, Sturgis
Square-jawed wizard with thick straw-colored hair. Member of the Order of the Phoenix and part of the Advance Guard that helped Harry in his escape from the Dursley house. Podmore was on guard duty, watching the door to the Department of Mysteries, on August 31, 1995. He was apprehended by the Ministry and sent to Azkaban for six months. "

TashiGrumblewig

October 17th, 2004, 4:03 am

silver ink pot

October 17th, 2004, 4:23 am

I think Fudge could indeed be the "bad" cop. I've always thought his story in Hogsmeade about being the "first on the scene" was fishy. It's always made me wonder if he helped Peter escape.

I wonder what Fudge is going to do now that Voldemort is back. We have the rumors from Luna about the "army of Heliopaths" - creatures of flame.

On JKR's site, if you hit the "Rumours" section, there are ads at the bottom of the page and one is for the Quibbler. I had to go there twice to see it again, but the ad for the Quibbler says, "In This Week's Issue: Fudge Forced to Flee, Minister For Magic Chased From Office."

Does anyone know what that is about? Is it just about Harry and Voldemort, or something else? Also, I wrote it just as it is: Minister FOR Magic. Is that a British-ism? In the American version, he is called Minister OF Magic.

Dr Hesper

October 17th, 2004, 4:24 am

In my opinion, Snape might have been "Malfoy in Disguise" in the graveyard in GoF, but I don't think anyone is sayng that Snape is "Malfoy in Disguise" at the DOM in OotP - that would be going too far.
His being in disguise at the graveyard is quite possible I suppose. I think I've read your theory before but have forgotten some details. And since this thread tends to ramble all over the place anyway....I'll ask. :rotfl: If Snape were acting as a spy for DD, and If he were conducting some super-secret mission in behalf of the Order (as has been suggested in various places), I certainly could invision him inflitrating the ring of Death Eaters. However, I wonder.... :huh:

Who's place did Snape take in the ring? And where was the person he was standing in for? And more importantly... if he is doing all this in behalf of the Order and DD, then surely he knows how much DD values Harry. Could Snape allow Voldemort to kill Harry without attempting some means of aiding him? Yes, Snape is a jealous, bitter, vengeful person with an abrasive personality and an ego the size of a small country. But he has helped Harry in the past hasnt he? I've never thought (well at least not since book 1) that Severus ever intended any real physical harm to Harry. In fact, the worst thing i've sene Snape do to Harry is be verbally abusive and attempt to get him expelled from Hogwarts. Had he wanted to do Harry physical harm, he likely had many chances over the years. Severus Snape would make a deadly assassin with devestating results if he wished. :)

Does anyone know what that is about? Is it just about Harry and Voldemort, or something else? Also, I wrote it just as it is: Minister FOR Magic. Is that a British-ism? In the American version, he is called Minister OF Magic.It is my understanding that there will be a new MoM in the upcoming books. I just figured this was what the banner was referring to. :)

silver ink pot

October 17th, 2004, 4:48 am

His being in disguise at the graveyard is quite possible I suppose. I think I've read your theory before but have forgotten some details. . . . But he has helped Harry in the past hasnt he? I've never thought (well at least not since book 1) that Severus ever intended any real physical harm to Harry. In fact, the worst thing i've sene Snape do to Harry is be verbally abusive and attempt to get him expelled from Hogwarts. Had he wanted to do Harry physical harm, he likely had many chances over the years. Severus Snape would make a deadly assassin with devestating results if he wished. :)

Dr. Hesper: I can't take any credit for the theory :blush: - there is a thread somewhere about the Graveyard Scene. I never would have thought of it either, though I sure would love to know how Snape is spying! Someone brought it up, and I was just replying.

y understanding that there will be a new MoM in the upcoming books. I just figured this was what the banner was referring to. :)

Thanks - that might explain it! :tu:

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 6:13 am

If Snape was Malfoy, that would explain where the heck Snape was when Harry and Co were in the DoM. But Malfoy is in Azkaban and Snape is back at school. :huh:

Dedalus Diggle

October 17th, 2004, 6:51 am

Okay, the 'Snape poses as L Malfoy' theory has weaknesses. I still think there is a lot to commend the idea that 'Snape poses as a DE', but which one. Nott is a possibility. We know from JKR's site that he is elderly and a widower. Oddities in his perceived mental state if legilemencied (what an awful verbification) by LV could be passed off as advancing years, particularly a certain amount of vacancy and forgetfulness of recent details. Hmm - who could it be?

Ahh another off-the-wall speculation. Droobles Gum is a solid, tasty form of polyjuice potion, allowing people to take it surreptitiously. Other people haven't discovered this yet because, well, who's going to chew gum when it has hair in it, especially someone else's? Bleah! That's what Alice Longbottom is trying to warn Neville about! Ta-da! (I really shouldn't theorize on Nyquil)

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 7:12 am

cabbage flavored bubble gum?

Aoweil

October 17th, 2004, 7:22 am

Oh yuck!

So, are you saying that Droobles is knowingly filling their gum with polyjuice potion? Have we ever seen anyone actually chewing Droobles gum? *runs to check*

filius

October 17th, 2004, 7:27 am

Oh yuck!

So, are you saying that Droobles is knowingly filling their gum with polyjuice potion? Have we ever seen anyone actually chewing Droobles gum? *runs to check*
I don't think so. The results of chewing this gum would be very obvious, wouldn't it? People screaming in pain after eating gum and turning into another person isn't something easily missed. ;)

Surely the MoM would look into this, if people were just turning into someone else for no possible rhyme or reason. So, no. I don't think Droobles is filled with poly juice potion.

Droobles Best Blowing Gum, as far as I can remember, hasn't been chewed in the book before. :p

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 7:28 am

Good question. :huh:

Aoweil

October 17th, 2004, 7:32 am

I don't think so. The results of chewing this gum would be very obvious, wouldn't it? People screaming in pain after eating gum and turning into another person isn't something easily missed. ;)

Surely the MoM would look into this, if people were just turning into someone else for no possible rhyme or reason. So, no. I don't think Droobles is filled with poly juice potion.

Droobles Best Blowing Gum, as far as I can remember, hasn't been chewed in the book before. :p

I figured that, I was just wondering what Dedalus Diggle was thinking in case I was missing something.
I checked the HP Lexicon, and they don't list the specific passages where the gum is mentioned, but it is mentioned in SS, POA, and GOF.

:)

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 7:44 am

I wonder why not? It sounds delicious.

Dr Hesper

October 17th, 2004, 10:15 am

Dr. Hesper: I can't take any credit for the theory - there is a thread somewhere about the Graveyard Scene. I never would have thought of it either, though I sure would love to know how Snape is spying! Someone brought it up, and I was just replying.Ah, well ok then. I did like the idea that snape was a spy though. And yeah, Snape is at Hogwarts and Malfoy is in Azkaban though i doubt for very long. JKR mentioned somewhere that we would learn more about the teachers spouses and that this would be important at a later date. Perhaps this will clear up some things. :)

Think Fred & George Weasley will be the ones to find out the properties of Drooble's Best Blowing gum? They're always tinkering around with that sort of stuff.

Oh! Anyone think that maybe the Longbottoms might not really be addled? Perhaps they are at St. Mungos for another reason....maybe they are undercover and are passing along info? :rotfl:

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 4:22 pm

where were the bluebell bubbles on the website?

Just checked. They were on the top shelf in the trophy room, between awards given to Frank Longbottom and Tom Riddle.

The Longbottoms defied Voldemort three times. Later in the tell all chapter 37 of OotP, Dumbledore tells Harry that he has escaped the DL four times, more than either his parents or the Longbottoms. Do "defy" and "escape" mean the same thing? Or is "escaping" one way of "defying?"

Nicole

October 17th, 2004, 5:32 pm

I'd say escape qualifies as a form of defiance, except....If you were a wizard/witch facing overwhelming odds, wouldn't you apparate away? Didn't seem anyone tried that during the DoM fight (and Dumbledore made sure no one could apparate after the DE's were "contained"). So maybe it is very difficult to apparate while dueling...

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 5:36 pm

Or maybe the DoM, or the death chamber anyway, is like Hogwarts: impossible to apparate in or out of. When the OotP showed up, they ran down the stairs rather than apparated. Hmmmmmmm.........

Interesting point. :tu:

But we know that the rest of the MoM can be apparated in and out of.

Nicole

October 17th, 2004, 5:38 pm

Actually, we have only seen them apparate to the hall with the fireplaces, we did not see anyone apparate to the offices....The DE's must have entered the DoM portion through the doors, so yeah, maybe that Department is protected, but DD still saw fit to cast his own anti-apparition spell on the captured DE's.

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 5:40 pm

Interesting. :huh:
Perhaps he didn't want to take a chance on losing them in transit.

TashiGrumblewig

October 17th, 2004, 5:41 pm

If the death chamber was used as an execution device, they would definantly not want anyone to be able to disapparate, and they wouldn't want someone to apparate in to help the person to be executed either.IMO.

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 5:57 pm

I seriously doubt it's an execution devise. It seems much more likely to be a place for interaction with those who have gone on during Samhaim, Halloween.

It's at the bottom of the MoM, as though the MoM was built up around it. Deep in the bowels of the earth, the gateway to the next great adventure. What do we know about wizard afterlife? We know that the earthbound or frightened can opt to become ghosts and those who are prepared for the next great adventure move forward. Through the veil? Does it flutter when a soul has successfully passed through to the next phase of existence? I would like to know why Sirius didn't leave a corpse, though. Wouldn't it have fallen out the other side? Or is Sirius possession of his physical body in the afterworld similar to the Christian "assumption," the ascending of a holy corpse into heaven.

If we look at the ancient myths, Orpheus for example, the hero must journey to the land of the dead. While I expect JKR will have a twist or deviation from the patterns of the ancient myths or the shamanic journey, still I expect Harry to go through the veil and successfully return.

Brain just went boing. Sirus is in the afterlife with his body.

How precession of the equinoxes. :wow:

Perhaps Harry, taking the part of Hermes, the guide to the underworld, must help Voldemort find his way through the veil and experience death in order fulfill the prophesy.

Dedalus Diggle

October 17th, 2004, 6:33 pm

I don't think so. The results of chewing this gum would be very obvious, wouldn't it? People screaming in pain after eating gum and turning into another person isn't something easily missed. ;)

Surely the MoM would look into this, if people were just turning into someone else for no possible rhyme or reason. So, no. I don't think Droobles is filled with poly juice potion.

Droobles Best Blowing Gum, as far as I can remember, hasn't been chewed in the book before. :p
Ah, but my whole point about not chewing gum with hair init is that you generally do not have a bit of another person in your gum. Without that, there is no becoming another person and you do not change. In fact, the polyjuice potion is not complete without a bit of the person to change into in it. Thus, it could be disguised in the gum and only 'activated' if you made a point of chewing someone else's fingernail or hair clipping with it.

GodricHollow

October 17th, 2004, 6:35 pm

That theory has been mentioned elsewhere, but I can't think where, it'd be nice to see it, but why or how would Harry do it?

silver ink pot

October 17th, 2004, 7:38 pm

Yukky - gum with hair in it! Not appetizing!

And yet - it's a good theory! :p No toenails, please!

TashiGrumblewig

October 17th, 2004, 7:49 pm

but why or how would Harry do it?
Why?, same reason he used it the first time, maybe. To secretly gather information by gaining the trust of the person giving it.
How?, take some scissors (and soap) to Snape, :elaugh: or better still, L.Malfoy, become a death eater, use his newly found occlumency/legilimens ability, and trick Bellatrix Lestrange into accompanying him to the veil in the death chamber, then give her a shove! :evil: Sweet vengeance! :rotfl:

Seriously though, If Droobles Best is polyjuice in a convenient stick, I doubt it would be so widely available in the wizarding community, especially to the children, as they are not allowed to do magic, and they get tons of hair in their mouths all of the time when they chew gum ( and it's not always human, or their own), IMO. And the twins would probably have figured it out by now, knowing how they are, and their current business. Again, IMO.

Does anyone think that the Longbottoms could be trying to get Neville to go to Dumbledore with the wrappers? Dumbledore loves sweets (curious :huh: ), and he seems to be, aside from Ron and the twins, an expert on sweets (very curious :eyebrows: ). Dumbledore could know the meaning of the clue. Ron and the twins might be able to figure it out too, with help from the rest of the gang, of course. This was probably already said though.

EDIT: When did Neville's Mum start giving him the wrappers? That could be an important clue, but I don't know if it was said in the books. Anyone else know?

GodricHollow

October 17th, 2004, 8:05 pm

But what proof have we got that when your someone else using PJ Potion you take their abilities? I thought that the potion would just let you take up the appearance of another?

TashiGrumblewig

October 17th, 2004, 8:14 pm

I believe that Harry already has these abilities, even if it is a small quantity, as of now. He has had lessons with Snape for them in OotP. He wouldn't need to take on anyone elses abilities, as he has his own. Besides, it was only a joke. Sorry. :blush:
Or maybe just wishful thinking! ;)

whizbang121

October 17th, 2004, 10:26 pm

:confuzzled: I'm lost.

:D

codswallop

October 17th, 2004, 11:11 pm

Well, if we have a reference to a Gringott's vault, it could just as likely support the "Goblins were sold tomb bug" anagram - where better to store a valuable object but in the most secure vault?

And Sueky, that possibility has certainly been considered - what do you think are the best reasons for it or against it?

The two reasons I am more inclined to believe St. Mungo's than the Tomb bug are:

1. the name st mungo's is not common, just asking to be part of an anagram.

2. the production of explanation of why all magical buildings are beneath ground and st mungo's is not beneath ground for "health" reasons.

TashiGrumblewig

October 17th, 2004, 11:24 pm

About the last 3 posts before you Whiz?
If so, Sorry, my fault! I posted a joke in #500, then #501 asked a determined question referring to the joke, not realizing it was one, then I apologized for it in #502.
Again, my comments relating to the quote I cited in #500 were only a joke. As you can see beneath it in the same post, I reapplied myself. :blush: :blush: :blush:
I shall try to refrain from allowing myself to post such bland, yet evil, humor in the future...blah...blah...blah...
truely sorry... blah...blah...blah...
a thousand pardons... blah...blah...blah
please forgive me! :upset: ;)

P.S. I am really sorry

Gwenog Jones

October 18th, 2004, 12:20 am

Seriously though, If Droobles Best is polyjuice in a convenient stick, I doubt it would be so widely available in the wizarding community, especially to the children, as they are not allowed to do magic, and they get tons of hair in their mouths all of the time when they chew gum ( and it's not always human, or their own), IMO.

Good point. I don't really think that Droobles Best Blowing Gum contains the polyjuice potion. It wouldn't be sold to just anyone if it did. Maybe if a wizard developed some special sort of gum that contained it, and he distributed it to those who needed the potion, that would make sense. But selling gum with a secret ingredient to kids? I don't think so. :)

whizbang121

October 18th, 2004, 2:19 am

Maybe it doesn't work until you squish the hair or ..... toenail into it.

furryfreakferret

October 18th, 2004, 3:02 am

Better: What if James chewed gum and without thinking threw the wrapper down outside Godric's Hollow, so when Voldemort came he found the house? So Voldemort's walking around with a bubblegum wrapper on the bottom of his shoe? :huh: I really like the theory with Alice keeping a journal and using a wrapper for a bookmark though.

Auror = Police = Detective = Gumshoe!!! -hits self in head. hard- This is after how many pages?? :lol: So, let's go through the Auror's, shall we? We already marked out Tonks as a possible spy. I've had my suspicions about her from the beginning. And there was that tungs plant with the heart-shaped leaves. (How do I remember these things?) Fudge is a good guess too, though. :grumble: Idiot that he is.

Alastor Moody, retired
Nymphadora Tonks, newbie/rookie
Williamson (red robes, long hair in ponytail), ?
Kingsley Shacklebolt, veteran
Dawlish, assumed veteran
Scrimgeour, assumed veteran?
unknown witch (eyepatch), assumed veteran (because of injury similar to Moody's)What about Lockhart Lockhart. Wasn't he an honorary member of some defense organization? Maybe she means him?

Now. This theory with Snape posing as Malfoy.

Would he have to do it all the time? Couldn't Malfoy be Malfoy sometimes? I can't imagine Snape acting like Malfoy acted in the DoM. But then... if Harry had given him the orb.... Really, without that bit of information, there isn't much we can do. I've always wondered how he managed to spy without being caught, but.... I think I like Ded's theory (by the way, long time, no see. Hello!). Nott would make much more sense. And Theodore's a loner and probably wouldn't confide in anyone if his dad were acting weird. Snape would know that. But does this mean that it's really Snape who's been badly injured? Guess we'll have to wait HBP for that one. ;)

The Longbottoms defied Voldemort three times. Later in the tell all chapter 37 of OotP, Dumbledore tells Harry that he has escaped the DL four times, more than either his parents or the Longbottoms. Do "defy" and "escape" mean the same thing? Or is "escaping" one way of "defying?"

in response...defy: 1. To oppose or resist with boldness and assurance; To refuse to submit to or cooperate with 2. To be unaffected by; resist or withstand 3. To challenge or dare

1. To renounce or dissolve all bonds of affiance, faith, or obligation with; to reject, refuse, or renounce 2: To provoke to combat or strife; to call out to combat; to challenge; to dare; to brave; to set at defiance; to treat with contempt; as, to defy an enemy; to defy the power of a magistrate; to defy the arguments of an opponent; to defy public opinion

2. elude, especially in a baffling way

And our most nauseating subject award goes to.... Congratulations, Ded, for introducing the idea which will prohibit me from ever chewing gum again! :D :lol: No, honestly, it's a good theory with the minor flaw of how you manage to chew a toenail. I suppose if you only need a small peice of one. Like a clipping.... All right, anyone else grossed out?

By the way, can someone please tell where you found the color of Molly's eyes (which werereported back on page 15 as being dark)? I need the information for my fanfic. Thanks! :)