Trelawney - Important or just for laughs?

[dantares]

Is Trelawney an important character? She had been mentioned a lot of times. There are few chapters that are almost devoted to her lessons and thus her. She is one of the few teachers that had a lot of 'scene times', even more so than McGonagell. So can she be important? The only other teachers that got as much 'scene times' as her are Lupin, Snape and Hagrid. No other teachers had their lessons mentioned as much. We all know that Snape, Hagrid and Lupin and impt characters so could Trelawney be one 2? But then again, JKR always make her out to be some old crackpot, so was she there just for laughs?
I'm thinking that towards the end, she will make her 3rd and final true prediction that had such a huge effect that she will go over to the dark side or killed by Voldemort.

[Sinistra]

Trelawney is very important. Some people think that prophecy will figure heavily in the later books, and Trelawney would be a good setup for that. And her lessons are funny. Plus it shows character with Hermione, leaving her class, and Ron and Harry sticking it out and faking it so well. Besides Harry's divination final was accurate. However nobody ever admitted it, though, and some of us, think that may be important.

She is like Rita Skeeter in GoF, a larger-than-life character who has an important part to play, and we get a few laughs off her also for fun.

Plus the accurate prediction is vital, and so is/was her first accurate prediction, whatever it may be.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Actually it was her second accurate prediction, although we don't know what the first was. Dumbledore says this one brings her total to two, and maybe he should consider a raise for her.

I don't know if Trelawney will turn out to be important. She is very different from the other teachers that get a lot of time. But...why waste time developing her if she's not going to be used? So likely she DOES have a role to play. I'm not sure how though, as none of the three "heroes" have much respect for her. Prophecy is an possibility, but given that it played NO role prior to GoF, and only a small role there, I'm somewhat skeptical. But, JKR likes surprises, so that wouldn't be out of character for her!

[Qeomash]

Of COURSE she's important! Think of how important she was in PoA! However, I doubt she will be much more important. Unless she has a third real prediction, which could be anything from Voldemort's defeat to Harry's death.

Let's just hope it's not the latter.

[Hederic]

It seems that JK is destroying the traditional view of magic. By created a crackpot character as Trelawney. So that we will think about magic as wands and robes.

[Sherlock Holmes]

LOL, Hederic, that's definitely true! Werewolves and witches are good, brooms are mostly used for sport...she turns the traditional "Muggle" view of magic on it's head. Although actually most Muggle people (a.k.a. in the real world) don't take palm reading seriously. So in that sense Trelawney does not fit the pattern...she isn't taken seriously by the Hogwarts world either.

[Katze]

I think Trelawney is very important to the story. Not her character herself, but what we'll find out about another character through her.

I believe her first prediction has something to do with the story, but it may not have anything to do with it. It could have been something as simple as "Dumbledore will get books for christmas!".

What I think is more important is whose going to turn out to be a true seer. Many people think it will be Harry because of his dreams, but I don't consider that being a seer. as it is him just having a connection with V. His dreams only occur when V is involved.

My bets are on Ron as the seer, and we'll find this out by way of Trelawney's class.

[Hederic]

We already have one seer, we can't have two. They would have disputes of territory, untill one of them can't take it anymore and resorts to violence!

[Katze]

I don't consider Trelawney a seer. She doesn't even realize that she's made a prediction - so I think she's a fraud, and there's some other power that likes to taunt her.

[Hederic]

Well, she DID make a prediction, whether she realized it or not...

[dorcasderr]

I think Trelawney will be important despite herself. She and a few of the girls are the only ones who take her seriously. I don't take her seriously either, but at least the first-unknown-true prediction will probably prove to be of importance.

[Benzo]

JKR likes to give us some cues of what is coming even if we don't get it at the first reading. The two real predictions are true so I think they play an important role in the plot. Trelawney herself? I supose yes, but I don't see how she can become important. Becoming a real seer? Why now and not before?

[Cat]

Originally posted by Hederic
Well, she DID make a prediction, whether she realized it or not...

Unless she's like a medium and something was talking through her. I think that's what Katze meant.

[Hederic]

Hearing voices is a serious sign that the cuckoo clock just broke, this usually happens before they start wearing their trousers over their heads...

Of something were talking through her, like a higher power, this just doesn't seem like the thing JK would do. And it would give religious fanatics something more to whine about. Unless it's one of the deceased, that would fit perfectly with the theme. Stupid Headless Nick couldn't be bothered to warn us about basilisk...

[Cat]

Yeah, I was thinking more on the line of channelling the deceased. You always get those weird mediums with the huge earrings and the phony accents.

Oh, wait, then it would have to be a dead seer. Unless being dead gives you knowledge of the future... didn't work for Nick....

[Puffskein]

Trelawney is a humorous character but she does make a point about the nature of fortune-telling - that if you make enough vague predictions, some are bound to come true. It just so happens that she very occasionally makes real predictions which are important for the plot.

[RJLupin]

She definetly has importance, JK wouldnt put her in the books so much if there was no importance. possibly her first prediction i sone of Voldemorts original rising and now she is kept at hogwarts just in case it happened again so she coud predict it once more

[violet]

I almost feel that Trelawney was JKR response to everyone saying her books were evil, that magic was evil, etc.

She's a charachter who is so full of cockaniny magic, it's almost like 'oooh, heres the big scary fortune teller! Go write some anti-potter literature on how evil she is!' Just ridiculous. However I'm guessing she will have some more importance later on.

[LizardLaugh]

Important -- not that she will do anything of particular importance (aside from maybe one more accurate prediction). She's imporant because she illustrates a very important theme in HP -- free will. She is a fortune teller who is shown to be rediculous. Her craft is a joke. Why? The future isn't written yet because of free will. There is a lot of importance placed on people choosing what they become rather than living up to what they are born to -- their fate. There is no such thing as fate. A great deal of emphasis has been put on this theme throughout the books -- Trelawney's character and her not being taken seriously, especially by Hermione (smartest stundent) and by the teachers emphasizes this.

[gillyweed_sensation]

Trelawney foreshadows events. A lot of her claims to the future do come true, just not in the way you'd think they were supposed to.

Three examples:
- "Beware a red haired man" to Parvati Patil? Nothing happened in that book that made her fear a red haired man, so everyone dismissed it as a load of crud, but in the next book she went to the dance with Ron and ended up having a bad time.
- The one with Lavender Brown where she said that the thing she's been dreading will happen on the sixteenth of October. The thing she was dreading wasn't her rabbit dying, but that Trelawney's prediction would come true ... kinda hard to explain that one, it works as a kind of paradox. Simple terms: Lavender dreaded the prophecy coming true - her rabbit died, which is what she thought was what she dreaded, but what she actually dreaded was the prophecy coming true, which it did.
- Another one is the whole Grim thing. She saw a black dog, and thought it was a Grim, but it wasn't a grim, it was Sirius.

Some of them haven't come true yet, but my guess is that they will in future books in subtle ways.

It's all these sorts of things with Trelawney that make me wonder whether her prophecy that Harry is going to die IS actually worth listening to.

[DragonslayerX]

but wasnt her prophecy that harry would die based on her seeing the grim?

[hermownninny]

Quoted from PoA page 324

After Harry finished "seeing" the future in the cristal ball::::

Relieved, Harry got up, picked up his bag and turned to go, but then a loud, harsh voice spoke behind him.
"IT WILL HAPPEN TONIGHT"
Harry wheeled around. Professor Trelawney had gone rigid in her armchair; her eyes were unfocused and her mouse sagging....

After that she made the prediction of the follower of the Dark Lord, chained these twelve years, going to join his master before midnight.. She said that the Dark Lord will raise again with his servant's aid.....etc...

Then her head fell onto her chest, and she made a noise..Then she didn't remember anything...

THIS IS what I think...

I don't think she is a seer, what I think is that SHE HAS THE ABILITY TO RRECEIVE SOMEONE IN HER BODY.... You know, when people say that they ahve been possessed and all that stuff. I think a spirit or someone (unnatural force or death person) was speaking through her...It wasn't even hehr voice, so she could no have been making the prediction by herself.....Something was inside her..Sounds creepy huh????:elaugh:

[DragonslayerX]

yeah, but thats basically what i believed when i read it, too

[Hagrid442]

I think Trelawney also proves the point that prophecies are often self-fulfilling. Like when she predicts that Neville will break one of her precious pink cups during the first class. Did she predict it because she knew it would happen? Or did it unnerve Neville to the point of breaking one, thus proving the prediction correct?

[DragonslayerX]

but, back to the topic, i think whether or not trelawny makes real predictions or not, she will become important (or her predicitions, like the ones where someone else is making them) will become more important in later books.

[Sinistra]

Trelawney is a joke pointed at the whole "new age" phenomenon of channelers and that sort of fortunetelling. And, for the record, her prediction that Harrry will die absolutely will come true .......... eventually. Everyone dies, even Witches and Wizards and even Harry. The big question is, when?

Her prediction was done in trance, and for the record many "true" psychics, Edgar Cayce most notably, went into a trance and made predictions that they had no conscious knowledge of. So that's not really unusual. Her other stuff is part psychological suggestion (Neville and the teacup), part shrewd guess (Lavender and the rabbit) and part luck (the red haired man).

I like the point about prophecy being in opposition to free will. It is and it isn't. You can believe in prophecy and still live your life according to your own ideas. But many people just hear something and "assume" it's all true and nothing can change it. I view it in the way Yoda did "Always in motion the future is." You can see one possible future, maybe the most possible, but that doesn't mean it is carved in stone.

I hope we see more of her, because she and the whole subject of predictions and prophecy are important.

[periwinkle-blue]

i think trelawney will be a major character, not, in the 5th book, but maybe in the 6th or 7th book. because we have much of her in the 3rd, and again, although not much of exposure like previous, in the 4th book. i think other professor or professors would be in the limelight in the 5th. like hermione's ancient rune teacher.

and by the way, just wanted to share something, an article on Harry Potter in a local magazine wrote that,

Harry's unique possesions and abilities include a holly and phoenix feather, eleven-inch wand and the Nimbus 2000, his broomstick. Harry can also speak Parseltongue (the ability to converse to snakes - an ability Lord Voldermort is also capable of) and have prescient dreams, dreams which when interpreted correctly will foretell the future.

[fawkesthepheonix]

Originally posted by periwinkle-blue

Harry's unique possesions and abilities include a holly and phoenix feather, eleven-inch wand and the Nimbus 2000, his broomstick. Harry can also speak Parseltongue (the ability to converse to snakes - an ability Lord Voldermort is also capable of) and have prescient dreams, dreams which when interpreted correctly will foretell the future.

That's pretty scary, I hope Harry doesn't dream himself dying anytime soon...
I think Trelawney will be important, only when she can make a real prediction. After all, she predicted the Pettigrew going back to Voldemort thing, right? :eyebrows:

[lanifiel]

She's comic relief, her prophecys are important...

[gillyweed_sensation]

Maybe she served her main purpose when she predicted the rising of the dark lord and NOW she's just there for comical relief

[Hederic]

Who would she be channeling, there haven't been reports made of spirits, aside from the usual ghosts and co. But they don't show sign of any prescience, if they did they would have told so.

JK has made it so that ghosts are part of everyday life, you can't expect her to suddenly make them mysterious again, the mystery wears of after you've seen a Ghost polo game...

[venus1818]

I have a theory about her (maybe you've heard it already). We are not seeing her true importance now, but we will later. Remember that in POA Dumbledore said that besides that prediction (that Voldemort's servant would come back) she had only made another one that was reliable. Well, my guess is that the prediction was this: Harry will be the only one able to fight Voldemort and take his power away from him. That would explain why Voldemort wanted to kill Harry in the first place. His spy Pettigrew told him this prediction and he decided that he had to kill Harry. As he didn't do it, her prediction would turn out to be true. Anyway, that's just my theory.

[amyflyer]

i think that a big part of trelawney's role was to scare us into thinking that the grim was an evil omen instead of an animagis or at least(since we dindn't know about animagi really) so that we wouldn't think it was as important as it was. i think that was a big part of hers, and i think her first real prediction will come into play sometime
by the way, trelawney's prediction about the red haired man was wrong. pavarti didn't go to the ball with ron. pavarti went with harry and her twin sister padma from ravenclaw went with ron.

[amyflyer]

sorry i didnt mean the grim i mean the big black dog harry was seeing. to make us think it was the grim and not something else.

[lanifiel]

Comic Relief. Wait, let me add something. Annoying Comic Relief.

[GodricSlytherin]

I think that Trelwawney may be used for something..like when she went into that trance...which to harry seemed very real...so..she might be important..I wonder..why does't harry just get rid of that class...

[Justin Etre]

Originally posted by lanifiel (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=92707#post92707))
Comic Relief. Wait, let me add something. Annoying Comic Relief.


You said it lani. Except for that prediction, which was quite vague, she is the kind of person you'd love to slap in the face with a glove.

[HPviolinist85]

I think Harry is able to tell the future. He kind of overlooks it. He can probably see into the future through his scar or something. Trelawney might help him discover it. (she'll prophisize something totally wrong, and he'll see something different, and his visions will be true and her's won't.)

[Weatherby]

I don't think she's just comic relief.
she's both. She did predict Voldemort's servant coming back. We don't know if she meant Peter or Crouch Jr.

[Emma]

She is important in her readings and teachings. She is also there for humor.

[Sirius83]

Important or just for laughs? BOTH! She gets several funny scenes, right from her entrance(a large glittering insect!!! :rotfl: ) but she also has her important parts, such as her true prediciton.

[Sinistra]

Maybe prophecy will tie in with the idea of magical debt, that is the debt one wizard owes another when the one saves the life of another. Could those debts change the future in some way? Or was the first prophecy something about a life debt? With Trelawney constantly predicting the death of a student (she seems to do so every year), maybe she is trying to "collect" debts to her by announcing people's deaths and then through her announcements "saving" them. Just random thoughts.

[hermiones mum]

She is mainly there because of the first prophecy that we have yet to hear - Dumbledore did seem surprised that she had given another accurate prediction and McGonegal is scathing of her. The HP trio have shown that Hermione dismisses this "art", whilst Harry and Ron feel able to cheat and make up horrific forecasts.
Will they discover that their forecasts are more accurate or will Harry find that Trelawneys room adds clarity to his visions and ask her how to focus on areas he wants to know about.

[Daily Propheter]

I think that Trelawney was made to be such a funny character to play down her importance - so that when she did make a true prediction, it would be more of a shock to Harry, who thinks she's a fraudulant old bat, and to the readers, who concur. So she is there for laughs, but I think she will also turn out to be a pretty important character near the end.

[GodricSlytherin]

Personally. I think she is in the book for both. Seriousness and laughs. Of course we want to laugh at her when people run away, and I am hoping for a bigger fight between her and Mcgonagall. We love to hate Trelawney's predictions. LOL. Except for when she may make a real one.

[Girl]

Trelawney first perdiction could have been that an hair of one of the four founders would distroy the greatest evil being voldermore. ( or something like that)
my feeling is that james is a hair to giffendor and so making harry one as well.
Voldermore knowing this went and killed James and was going to kill harry but lily stoped him.
this would make sence as Voldermore saids he did not need to kill lily.

[FawkesBox]

On page 176, British softcover version, when Harry first enters Trelawney's classroom, Trelawney walks up behind Harry and scares him saying. "My inner eye sees past your brave face to the troubled soul within. And I regret to say that your worries are not baseless. I see difficult times ahead for you, alas... most difficult... I fear the thing you dread will indeed come to pass... and perhaps sooner than you think."

On the next page Harry thinks "He wasn't dreading anything at the moment at all... well unless you counted his fears that Sirius had been caught." He then references Trelawney's second-trance-prediction (the servant joining the Dark Lord.)


Did Professor Trelwaney predict the death of Sirius Black in GoF? Does Harry realize this and then, somehow, forget that he did? Does this lend credence to Trelawney's "predictions?" Is this point somewhat moot or does it have more far-ranging implications?

Yes, I think that she did predict his death- A caught Sirius is one without a soul! Indeed Harry is being to hot-headed and not looking more closely at all his resources. Although I doubt that this would have prevented Sirius's death I believe that we should look more closely at Trelawney and what she has to say. :agree:

[madjh]

I think there's more to Trelawney than just her predictions. In the AM. VER. of GoF on pg. 221, Harry and Ron are doing their divination homework and every mishap they "make-up" comes true. Qoute: "Okay, Tuesday, I'll... erm..." "Lose a treasured posession," said Harry, who was flicking through Unfogging the Future for ideas. "Good one," said Ron, copying it down.

Later, Ron looses Scabbers. All of the other things listed here come true in one way or another and I don't believe that was by chance. I believe JK uses Trelawney as a subtle way (and sometimes not so subtle) to foreshadow major happenings.

It might be fun to look at other things she's said innocuosly throughout the books and see if they've got connections to bigger events.

[FawkesBox]

Could this mean Harry is a possible seer?

There is an intersting discussion here...
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=12590&highlight=Harry+true+seer
about that. It is a theory that I totally buy.

[[Pretty]_[Unicorn]]

Jill I'm just wondering where you read that because i'm really surprised I missed that clue. That is really interesting and I think the Trewlaney didn't predict particularly that it would be Sirius just someone very close to him so ultimately she could figure that it was Sirius although usually after a correct prediction she forgets what she says.

[Jill]

There is an intersting discussion here...
http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=12590&highlight=Harry+true+seer
about that. It is a theory that I totally buy.

Thanks for the site FawkesBox.

And [Pretty]_[Unicorn] its on page 196 of GoF in the English version or as mentioned by madjh on page 221 of GoF in the American version.

Well professor Trelawney did state that she saw 13 people sat at a table and the first person to stand would die. Well the first person to stand around that table was no other than Sirius.

Not stated in the exact words of the book but its there as one of her predictions. So I guess she did predict his death.

Oh and another thing Harry makes up, something about

'You will get stabed in the back by someone you thought was a friend?'
'Yeah...cool...' said Harry, scribbling it down, 'because...Venus is in the twelfth house.'

Well there is the Goblet of Fire where someone puts his name into it and he gets double crossed.

But then after reading OotP, Grim 12, the 12th house. Harry is stabed in the back by Kreacher or could it have been someone else doing the stabbing because it says an old friend. Harry losses Sirius because of a stab in the back. But was it Kreacher because it says an old friend....hm.

Any suggestions because I think Harry predicted Siriuses death here. Who was an old friend, perhaps it refers to Kreacher as being Siriuses old friend.

Could this mean Harry is a possible seer?

[Dedalus]

I really don't think you should take the predictions seriously. It's been said, even by Dumbledore who knows magic better than any of us, that Trelawney is only making true prophechies when she doesn't seem to realise that she's making them. He said he was going to refuse her the job until he had to take her on when she made that important prophecy unawares.

The thing is, Harry has had a very eventful life at Hogwarts ... so you could make the fortune telling fit practically anything, even the joke ones he and Ron made. It doesn't mean that Harry or Ron are good seers ... it's just that that the "predictions" are so vague that they can fit around a number of situations, and those that don't fit anything are instantly forgotten. It's only when something happens that you go "aaahh the prediction", and when a large number of other predictions fail to happen you don't remember them, because there's no situation to jog your memory.

The first to rise from 13 diners isn't a prediction, but a superstition. Sirius wasn't the first to rise, anyway, because Molly Weasley probably got up to get more food, and Ginny Weasley was sat on the floor by the end of the meal :)

[Vigilance]

Well, the astrology predictions, at any rate, should be time specific. They are trying to predict what will happen in the next month, not the next year. Also, I don't think their predictions, spoken so carelessly, are true predictions. When you think about it, the stuff they come up with may seem farfetched, but as Hermione inidcates, we tend to see what we expect to see. Losing a prised possession is arguably different than your pet escaping of his own volition. But because we want Ron to have lost something important, we immediately think "ah-ha! Scabbers!" Really, though, the events are not so similar...the predictions can easily be manipulated after the fact to appear true.

[jordmundt6]

Trelawney knows how to read people pretty well and can get by on a convincing show. Her genuine predictions, the hazy, misinterpreted, but accurate ones are rarities and you know when they occur, it's like watching lightning strike someone, it's so sudden and traumatic that it burns in your brain. The rest of this is foreshadowing element that works as coincidence. If you really take these things seriously, you'd have to consider at least a half dozen people besides the flitty Trel herself as possible seer candidates and that's a really tough sell, even with Harry's dreams (the ones he has before OotP, not the ones he has during it).

[Shoujo Kitsune]

Hey Ya'll!

Well, I think that everyone has a potential to see a possible future, but I do not think that she was intentionally predicting said events. It would be like saying "I see a particularly hard exam coming up"...well, that is a duh...everyone goes through hard times, to what degree he suffers is not indicated, so technically, anything after that moment could have been part of the prediction. She does have the medium to be right at given times, but I do not think that this was a founded prediction, had it come from someone such as DD, then I would think that it was relative to the tragic loss of Stubby.

Though I do think that JK is leaving us hints here and there, and that was an absolute wonderful find in the Text...so kudos to you FawkesBox, but I am not in agreeance (well, not fully ;) )

Cheers

[MadMagic]

I don't think she predicted Sirius's death. I mean she is all about kryptic, ominous messages such as "the thing you dread will happen'. I don't think that is much of a prediction. And technically, Harry wasn't even dreading that Sirius would die. He was dreading that he would be caught by the ministry and sent back to Azkaban (or be kissed by a dementor). I think it was just another or Trewlaney's vague statements that have a high likelihood of happening sooner of later.

[Sinistra]

MadMAgic hit it on the head. Trelawney is a master of the vague but important sounding pronouncement. I can make a bunch of predicitions that will be 100% true--there will be an earthquake along the ring of fire in the next month, there will be more houses destroyed in the California fires, people will die as a result of a plane crash before the year ends etc. etc. etc. They sound important and inspired, but I am just playing the odds. So are most of the "professional" prognosticators.

Trelawney said a bunch of stuff, so much and so often that it would be impossible for nothing to come to pass. She is playing the percentages.

That being said, I do think Harry (and possibly Ron) have a bit of seer in them, because so many of their "joke" predictions did come to pass within the next few months. That is a good record, and their predictions were not broad but specific.

[Puffskein]

Of course, this is a work of fiction, so if a prediction does come true, it's not necessarily anything more than contrivance. I expect more of Trelawney's predictions of doom will start coming true soon, just because there's a war on.

[sindatur]

I think there's more to Trelawney than just her predictions. In the AM. VER. of GoF on pg. 221, Harry and Ron are doing their divination homework and every mishap they "make-up" comes true. Qoute: "Okay, Tuesday, I'll... erm..." "Lose a treasured posession," said Harry, who was flicking through Unfogging the Future for ideas. "Good one," said Ron, copying it down.

Later, Ron looses Scabbers. All of the other things listed here come true in one way or another and I don't believe that was by chance. I believe JK uses Trelawney as a subtle way (and sometimes not so subtle) to foreshadow major happenings.

It might be fun to look at other things she's said innocuosly throughout the books and see if they've got connections to bigger events.

Huh? Scabbers exposed himself in POA. How can anything said in GoF be a prediction of that event?

[Tirwen Lupin]

Huh? Scabbers exposed himself in POA. How can anything said in GoF be a prediction of that event?
I thought that bit sounded odd! :lol:
But I remember reading somewhere that Harry and Ron's prediction jokes in GoF sort of had correlations to the tasks of the Triwizard Tournament. It's interesting, though I doubt that it's a sign of Seeing abilites. It might just be ironic little coincidences that are thrown in, and might continue to be thrown in.
And as for Trelawney, the "predictions" that she makes every ten minutes or so all seem so vague that it's nearly impossible for them not to come true. She's a pretty good actress, and can make herself seem so ominous and all-knwoing that some people may find her predictions believable. I really don't think that she can make true prophecies at will like that.
And Harry was fearing the Sirius would be caught by dementors and be put back in Azkaban, or kissed. I don't think the thought of Sirius dying had occured to him. It simply didn't seem like a threat.

[HannahStarr]

Trelawney is constantly making predictions about people dying, so I really don't think this particular incidence has much significance. Even Dumbledore has said that she doesn't have an ounce of Sight in her, except those two rare occasions when she did actually predict something.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Remember what Firenze said? You can't make accurate predictions about little things that happen, you can only make predictions about the large flow of history. Prophecies are another story, they can be fairly specific, but what Trelawney was saying was not a prophecy but a prediction.

[FawkesBox]

Firstly, at that point Sirius getting captured would surely mean his death.

I feel that the most interesting point here is not Trelawney's "prediction" but instead the way that it affected Harry. Clearly Trelawney did not say "Your buddy, Sirius, he's a goner!" However, the combination of all those issues, her seeing the Grim and her ominous predictions combined with the way that Harry interpreted them gives us an important textual clue. :eyebrows:

[Venustas]

Trelawney does make vague predictions, but some of them are easy to 'see', or at least attribute to other going-ons in the series, so they probably should be looked at carefully.
"I have seen that professor Lupin will not be with us for very long..." p.
She also predicted the black dog, Sirius, only misinterpreted it at the grim.

On the idea of Ron and Harry having a bit of the Eye in them- Harry predicted Buckbeat's survival and even his means of escape, book 3, Page 322-3, US version, as he gazes into the chrystal ball right before Trelawney gave her 2nd prophecy.

[Shadowfire76]

I have been looking back through POA, GOF, and OoTP for anything that Trelwaney said. And there are a few things that stick out.

In POA (American version) where they meet Trelawney for the first time.

---Trelawney asking Neville if his grandmother is well. So far in the books she has been well but what if Trelwaney is right.....what if Neville's Grandmother is sick and he just doesn't know it yet. Think about the effect it would have on him to loose his grandmother. I get the funny feeling that something is going to happen to her in the next couple of books and it will drastically affect Neville.

--- when Ron and Harry are reading their tea leaves. Harry said Ron had a crooked cross which meant trials and suffering and he also had a sun that meant great happiness. Ron has went through trials and suffering.....look at what happened in POA with the whole encounter with Sirus and getting his leg broken and almost attacked by dementors.....then in GOF he quit talking to Harry for a while over Harry being in the TriWizard Tournament...that is a trial and test of his friendship. Then in OoTP he has all the quidditch stuff and if that's not a trial for him then I don't know what is. But he's very happy after he helps the Gryffindor win the quidditch cup and he's been made prefect....that's the first step towards being a head boy and didn't he see himself in the Mirror of Erised as head boy and holding the quidditch cup.

--- Then Ron reads Harry's tea leaves. Ron sees what is an acorn that means a windfall, unexpected gold. Well Harry certainly got some unexpected gold in the GOF didn't he. Then Trelawney takes over Hary's cup. She sees an eagle which means a deadly enemy....which we assume is Voldemort but what if she is referring to Wormtail. He did get free go back to Voldemort and help him regain his powers. Which Trelawney made an accurate "real" prediction about later in the book. Then she sees a club which means an attack. Harry is attacked by the dementors later in the book. Then she sees a skull which means danger in his path. It seems like everywhere Harry turns he's running into danger like being sent to the graveyard in GOF, the dementors in POA. Then she sees something that looks like a grim....well Harry mistook Sirius for a Grim maybe Trelawney was just seeing Sirius in harry's tea leaves.

--she also predicted that Neville would break his tea cup and would be late for the next class.

---She predicted that something Lavender was dreading would come to pass on the 16th of October. What if her rabbit binky wasn't the bad news she was suppose to get.....what if that news has yet to come.

--- she told Pavarti to beware of a red haired man.....Ron went to the Yule ball with her twin Padma....maybe Trelawney got the two confused since they are twins.

--she predicted someone would leave the class forever around Easter and Hermione did just that.

---there was the whole Christmas dinner thing. She said she could forsee that Lupin would not be with them for long. Well he left at the end of the book because he couldn't take the risk on endangering the students. And another thing.....she said the Lupin fled when she offered to crystal gaze for him......if she is a old fraud then why would Lupin flee from having his crystals read. It could be because of the whole moon thing (the shape his boggart takes) but I don't think it is. Lupin had no problems facing the boggart in POA and OoTP. then the whoever leaves the table first will die thing. Well that ones still out to the jury.


Then in the GOF (American Version)

--- she tells Harry that what he is dreading will indeed come to pass. Well we all assume she was talking about Sirius. What if she was really talking about voldemort getting his body and powers back.

---Then later in the books she tells the class that the angle in which mars was to Saturn meant danger of sudden deaths for people born in July. Well the encounter at the end of GOF would have been a sudden death if Voldemort had succeeded.

---Then later she says that during her crystal gazing she seeing death hovering over the castle, circling every closer. Well Cedric bit the dust and Harry almost did as well.

Then in the OoTP (American Verison)

---Trelawney makes a prediction for Umbridge during her inspection. she said she saw something dark, some grave peril...that Umbridge was in grave danger. Well she was later in the book.....pissing the Centaurs off like she did....she could have very well been killed by them.



I know alot of people thing she's nothing but an old fraud and doesn't know her head from a hole in the ground but I have to wonder if maybe she isn't. We know she has made two true predictions and the rest some might chalk up to guess work but what if it's just that "her inner eye is clouded". Seeing how Ron and Harry both plan to drop Divitation at the end of OoTP I don't know what role Trelawney will play in the upcoming books. But I have a feeling we haven't seen the last of her.

[GryffindorSeeker]

The thing is, Harry has had a very eventful life at Hogwarts ... so you could make the fortune telling fit practically anything, even the joke ones he and Ron made. It doesn't mean that Harry or Ron are good seers ... it's just that that the "predictions" are so vague that they can fit around a number of situations, and those that don't fit anything are instantly forgotten. It's only when something happens that you go "aaahh the prediction", and when a large number of other predictions fail to happen you don't remember them, because there's no situation to jog your memory.

The same thing could be said for Trelawney. Her predictions are so vague that they could fit easily into the lives of even those who have few things happening to him. And to refer to one of Trelawney's pet predictions, Harry will of course die eventually... He isn't immortal. ;)

[Morgan LeFay]

Well, she predicted that Harry will have 12 children and become the minister of magic. Do you think it's a real prediction? ;)

[jordmundt6]

Um no, she didn't go into croaky Cassandra phase. That was just her teary-eyed gratitude to Harry for inspiring revolt against Umbridge, but I do hope he ends up raising a bunch of bright, brown-eyed bushy-haired children. Gee, did I just tip my hand on shipping? I think so.

[SnorkackCatcher]

Trelawney's been mostly for laughs so far; as Ron and Harry are dropping Divination, she'll probably mostly figure as background in Book 6/7, with Ginny or someone mentioning clashes between her and Firenze. However, I suspect there's a third real prediction coming - certainly Dumbledore seems keen to keep her around just in case.

[jordmundt6]

We don't know that Harry's necesarily "dropping Divination" he just feels he did so poorly that there's no way he passed. Ron is the one who's authoritatively DROPPING Divination (probably "to his cost").

[SnorkackCatcher]

We don't know that Harry's necesarily "dropping Divination" he just feels he did so poorly that there's no way he passed. Ron is the one who's authoritatively DROPPING Divination (probably "to his cost").

Well, they were saying to each other, after the exam, words to the effect of "at least we can drop the stupid subject now". AFAIR, Harry's comment was a rerun of the pronunciation joke, something along the lines of "no more pretending we care if Jupiter and Uranus get too friendly". So I think he's made it pretty clear he's no intention of carrying on with it. :)

[jordmundt6]

Heh, I think he was just accepting the "fact" that he'd washed out. He has respect for prophecies and true seers now, though he doesn't love the subject. Hermione seems to have picked up a fascination with the genuine article (wouldn't she be shocked to learn that Sybil got this whole ball rolling 16 years ago?:elaugh:). But Ron, even after the ordeal sees it all as hogwash. And now we have all the Weasley-philes freaking out because he said that he won't pay any attention to his tea leaves, even if they say DIE RON DIE he's scraping them into the trash. So, naturally, all the people who think he's a seer think he's unintentionally foreseen and foretold his own death :whistle: :rolleyes: :nc:

[Kaonashi]

I wouldn't count Prof Trelawny out just yet...Dumbledore could have not intervened when Umbridge tried to throw her out but he did. something tells me that we have not seen the last of her predictions.

Anyone think that she can only go into a trance and predict things around certain people? Like powerful wizards? Harry will probably grow up to be a very powerful wizard, and Dumbledore definitely is a powerful wizard, and they both have psycic "gifts" in a sense...especially Harry, who can tap into ole Voldy's brain.

[jordmundt6]

So what's the theory here, that she taps into the greatness of her ancestors using the borrowed power of the best and the brightest of the last four generations? If that were true, shouldn't she have genuine predictions more often? She's around both of them quite a lot.

[dobby_rocks]

I think she is very important to the storyline, I mean she is the one that told of the prophecy DD keeps her employed as he doesn’t want someone to attack her and get it out of her. Her role could come into more play how I’m not sure since it appear Harry will not have her as a teacher in his 6th year. Maybe she will predict something else

[Prosperine]

I wouldn't discount Trelawney, and I'm starting to think overlooking her would be a big mistake:

Trelawney shares a name with someone else from literature, Squire Trelawney of Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island, the person who was unable to keep a secret and blabbed to the other side about what was to happen in the novel.

If Trelawney were to learn of her real prophecy making, does anyone think she'd actually keep her mouth shut, or is it more likely that she would blab to every person she came across, including possibly someone on Voldemort's side?

[Creatively Evil]

Every character is important, I think. But that whole Mark Evans thing is a myster :huh:. Yes, she's important because she told the prophecy, and we wouldn't have a Harry Potter w/o the prophecy. I think her whole "aura" thing is just for laughs though.

[Spirit]

Yeah, well, obviously Trelawney is important. JK Rowling uses her for humor and for major clues. Who knows how many things she has said (which we have just shrugged off) that will be important later.

[crumseekerlynch]

She is very important and I bet before the series is over she will make another proficy

[red_fairy]

Well since she has already given 2 prophecies important to the story (I knoiw the one in Prisoner of Azkaban is debateble, but I'm counting it), yes I think she is important. But she is also hilarious. Scenes with her have put a smile on my face or made me laugh numerous times.

[MTRLG]

She funny and she can predict, even though she exaggerates things a little bit. Obviously, the way Rowling picture her relevance in the story means her role is an important one. A lot of the HP characters are important even those who don't come out often.

[Tane]

Trelawney is important already, if it was not for Trelawney then Dumbledore would have never known about Harry being marked as a baby, he would have never understood that this child would be responsible for bring Voldemort down. Without Trelawney Harry could have died because Lily would have never of know what was coming to protect Harry.

[esmerelda]

I think Trelawney is important, but also there for laughs. Kind of like Luna, I suppose, in that most of what she says sounds like nonsense, but could turn out to be true. Even if none of the trio are learning divination any more in book 6, Trelawney will still be present at the school, and I presume something bad will happen to her if Voldemort continues his mission to find the prophecy. Trelawney made the prophecy, Dumbledore heard it - which one is easier to break? I fear for poor Trelawney.

[DragonBlk17]

I think that Trelawney might be useful in the next 2 books. Maybe she'll predict that something big is going to happen, and then it will end up happening, creating chaos and such.

[jellyjames]

Well, Trelawney is a good laugh but she has to have a bigger role in the story. I mean, why would Dumbledore keep her around eventhough she is not really a very good teacher and seer. I am sure there is a limit to one's pity, no matter how kind he is. Everyone in Hogwarts have a role to play. She is kept in Hogwarts for a reason, and in OoTP, we found out about her involvement in the prophecy. So there is definitely more to Trelawney than blind old bat we can all laught about.

[Scarlet Crystal]

she's definitely important. sure, she doesn't often have reliability, but every now and then she spews off a useful prophecy... she does have the Sight, no matter how she overdoes things.

[Snowthorn]

Don't count off Trelawney just yet. Remember when Harry told DD about her prediction of 'Voldemort's servant returning to him before nightfall' at the end of POA? Dumbledore said that that makes TWO prophesy/predictions. Things usually come in THREES.
My guess is that Trelawney will have one more, very real and very important prophesy to make.

[sirius_gerl]

i think she's a bit of both..comedy and important...i agree with you Snowthorn, things do come in 3's , so there's a possibilty of a another one....<_<

[nijokeem]

i think she's a bit of both..comedy and important...<_<
i agree she's a bit of both

[Twilight]

I actually had a fleeting thought one day, that maybe she's actually making real predictions, of Harry... Sorta like, perhaps all the premature deaths she's predicted may actually be something. Maybe she's Seeing something that sounds ridiculous but could actually be leading up to his death. That's probably just far fetched, but I do think she will have some importance later on. She's already had a bit of importance from what we've heard from Dumbledore.

[Wep]

I think Trelawney is important, I don't think we can discard her as not being important in the future books. I definately think Dumbledore wants her around to protect the prophecy... but I also think that she is in it for laughs too, you always need a bit of comic relief. Look at Fred and George they provide a lot of laughs but they're important to the story for other reasons (well I think they are)

[Choices]

Even though Firenze is now teaching Divination I think Prof. Trelawney will either get her job back or stay on in another capacity.
The reason I think this is because on JKR's website there is a vase with daffodils in the room with the closed door. I wouldn't think anything about the flowers if they were another kind. But in OotP, after Prof. Trelawney gets sacked by Umbridge, Lavender told Hermione "We went up to her office to see her, we took her some daffodils-not the honking ones that Sprout's got, nice ones..." I'm waiting for the daffodils on her site become a portkey to another room, with a possible clue in it.
These books make me look at any subsequent things as a clue. JKR is sooo good at that. She'll have me looking for things I've noticed through the next two books.

[aggiefan1206]

I think both because it was her prophesey that made Voldemort go after Harry. She has had 3 important propheseys. SHe is also sorta comic relief. I think she will be a person who needs to be kept around.

[Draihkon]

I've done a little research on the subject and I think Trelawney is the dual character that you have to watch out for. There are certain aspects that are overlooked which are the most important, including the one statement Hermione made about the runes (one is the shape of Harry's scar) and another I think some people missed. Here's an excerpt from a theory I wrote:

'This relationship between the stars is probably most apparent when Professor Trelawney comes to the conclusion that Harry was born in December:

“‘I was saying that Saturn was surely in a position of power in the heavens at the moment of your birth. . .you were born in midwinter?’
‘No,’ said Harry, ‘I was born in July.’” (GoF, p. 201, US)

This is taken as just another one of Trelawney’s bumbles, but Dumbledore assured Harry in CoS that Lord Voldemort transferred some of his power over the night he made the attempt on Harry’s life. If these calculations of characteristics are correct, and Tom Riddle is a Capricorn, that would mean Tom Riddle was born in December (on or after the 21st, which would be around the Mid-winter solstice), and Trelawney’s reading in Harry is partially true.'

Saturn: is the planet of Capricorn (December 21st-January 19th), and the sign of none other than Tom Riddle, ruling the Tenth House. This is another obvious deduction from characteristics. They are also ambitious, but are extremely conservative, disciplining themselves more than any other sign, and as Fiery states, “engender a lack of confidence that impedes the attainment of goals,” (p. 36) much as Lord Voldemort did when he encountered Dumbledore in the MoM.' In PS, page 85 (US), Mr. Ollivander reminisces about the wand he sold to Tom Riddle: “Yes, thirteen-and-a-half inches. Yew.” Yew is not only an extremely poisonous wood, but the rune ‘Eoh’, in the shape of a lightning bolt that partially resembles Harry’s scar, represents the Yew tree. You might have missed the other small reference in Chapter 32 of GoF, that the graveyard Harry and Cedric were transported to had “a small chuch. . .visible beyond a large yew tree to their right.” Again, Eoh is the 13th rune, and the stone associated with both winter and Eoh, is Topaz. The Yew is also known as ‘Yggdrasil’, or the “Tree of Life” because it is one of the longest living trees.

This displays Trelawney's ability, but this are conclusive facts, NOT depending on the inner eye. So, I love reading Trelawney as a comic relief, but that's exactly where JKR inserts some of the brightest clues b/c the audience is so rapt up in the plot they overlook these breadcrumbs.

That's my interpretation anyway :).
-Draihkon

[SnorkackCatcher]

You might have missed the other small reference in Chapter 32 of GoF, that the graveyard Harry and Cedric were transported to had “a small chuch. . .visible beyond a large yew tree to their right.”It's an intriguing theory in general, and could well be right. The yew tree reference in that passage is probably however simply because yew trees were traditionally planted in parish churchyards, supposedly by royal order to ensure a supply of wood for making bows.

I also, though, seem to remember from some other thread that holly was the tree of life - cf Harry's wand?

[Draihkon]

Either way, the yew tree is a symbol of death/destruction, or, if you want to be positive, it's a symbol of regeneration and long life. :)

[hpfan_08]

I think that she will play a very important part in the future.

We already know that she does make real prophecies, as few they are. And we also know that Dumbledore wouldn;t let her leave, could that be a clue to the fact that she is important later on?

[Draihkon]

Dumbledore doesn't want anyone to leave. . .lonely, old man. . .;).

Although imagine if she did leave, she's liable to be sought out by the Death Eaters just like Bertha Jorkins and have her brain scrambled as Voldemort sifted through her memories. Voldemort doesn't know the whole prophecy and if he ever learned all that it had to say. . .well, things would take a violent turn for sure.

[HarryPotter]

I think she is definitely a key character in the story... and I'm convinced that we will get to know more about her in the next books...

[The Gurg]

How will she be incooperated into the story? I doubt that Harry is going to choose Divination again, so how would JKR bring her into the future books? Other teachers have been easily been positioned into the story because of what they teach, but as far as I am concerned, Divination is over.

How will she be incooperated into the story? I doubt that Harry is going to choose Divination again, so how would JKR bring her into the future books? Other teachers have been easily been positioned into the story because of what they teach, but as far as I am concerned, Divination is over.

[louise1990]

she has been very important because of her on off predictons perhaps she will have 1 last 1 in the books to come that is of signifacance i think that she will!!!

[Draihkon]

Let's think. . .why in the world would JKR spend so much time with this character and then just throw her away? It's like asking if Lockhart had a purpose. Sure, she didn't have to bring Lockhart back into the picture once he checked into Mungo's, but we encounter him again and I'm sure there's a reason for it.

Incorporation is a bit tricky. No, Harry won't choose Divination again with Trelawney, but he will have class with Firenze. Also, it seems a bit obvious that Trelawney already has precedence as a "seer" and so her life is jeopardized. It would make sense for the Order to keep a good lookout for her. Like I said, Voldemort would use her to no ends and without pity.

[PotionsPunk]

Professor Trelawney to me was always just a joke, a comic relief so to speak. But in OotP when Umbridge tried to get rid of her...well I threw the book. I believe Trelawney will play a VERY important role. That was all ready established when it was revealed that she was the one that gave the prophecy. And she was the one who foretold that the "Dark Lord's most loyal servant would return to him". We haven't even begun to scratch the surface of Sybil Trelawney.

[Lilly Evans]

I think it's both. She is important because she sometimes has real visions, like when she foresaw that Wormtail would return to Voldemort and when she had the vision about voldemort and Harry. I think she will play a more significant role later on in the books, but I think that she is also used for comin relief...

[silver ink pot]

I've been thinking about Peter Pettigrew alot lately because of other threads, and it is obvious that he was brave in many ways, yet people underestimated him. He is brave enough to spend time with Voldemort even now - which few witches or wizards would care to do. He turns his bravery in the wrong direction.

Madame Trelawney is brave, too. She is even described that way in OotP when she stands up to Umbridge. Few teachers in the school have to put up with the kind of punishment she takes from Umbridge. The old toad herself isn't that great of a witch, yet she realizes she is "stronger" in some ways than Trelawney, and so zeroes in on her.

I think one purpose of the character of Sibyll is to show us the way the teachers at the school work together. We know that Minerva makes fun of Trelawney - we've seen it in PoA - yet McGonagall steps forward to help Sibyll against Umbridge. Here again, we have a character being singled out by a bully, reminiscent of the Pensieve Scene in OotP, and the Graveyard Scene in GoF. Everyone rallies to protect Sybill - not just because of the Prophecy but because it is right to help protect weak people against those who want to mistreat them.

[Kailyn]

I am almost positive that Trelawney will be of greater importance in future books because Dumbledore insisted that she stay, and Dumbledore has a reason for everythiing.

[satnitesadnesss]

i think trelawney was placed in hogwarts due to her predictions..her TRUE prophecies. she has made 2 real prophecies now..both turned out to rather important. Also, why dumbledore was so adamant in keeping trelawney at the school in OoTP ..whats to say she wont make even more important prophecies in time to come. i think she DEFINETLY will, bless her.

[Ella Marauder]

So far, she's both, as her classes are quite funny because the dramatic way she acts, but she was quite important in, at least, two occasions: in PoA, when she says that thing about the one who betrayed his friends, and all and in OotP, not during that year but before Harry was born (remember the Prophecy), as Dumbledore told Harry almost in the end of the book.

[Im Mental]

This one has been forgotten (thread) but after re-reading GOF, I really noticed how INTERESTED she was when harry had his 'dream' and was screaming on the floor. She was not worried about HIM, but his dream, wanted to hear it all.
She is also the one who has made Harry & Ron write teh dream journals (the whole class), and I think she reads through them for clues (as in GOF all of Ron's and Harry's come true , though they were just messing....)

I think she is underestimated, and will be a BIG key to the puzzle.

[Iceager]

Note how Dumbledore intervenes to keep Trelawney in her lodge after she is fired by Umbridge. Is it because she has to be protected? For instance, if Lord Voldemort were to get his hands on her, would it be possible for him to get the prophecy out of her? The indications are that Trelawney herself doesn't remember the true prophecies she has made (I might be wrong about this), but I'd be willing to bet that Lord Voldemort would be resourceful enough to find ways of digging them out of her. Voldemort didn't seem too disappointed when he learned the prophecy was destroyed at the Ministry of Magic, considering that he had been planning to get the prophecy for quite a while. Was it because he knew he had another way of hearing the prophecy? Trelawney may be in more danger than she herself knows.

[tarachristwen]

i think she's rather important in a way..sometimes her prophecies do come true..

[star14]

I'm not sure how though, as none of the three "heroes" have much respect for her.

I bet Harry will have more respect for her now.With him knowing aboout the prophecy and all.

[R_Skeeter]

Maybe her presence is to help one of the characters choose their future career path. Ron seems to luck into his "made up" predictions coming true...

[Mcpherson]

Note how Dumbledore intervenes to keep Trelawney in her lodge after she is fired by Umbridge. Is it because she has to be protected? For instance, if Lord Voldemort were to get his hands on her, would it be possible for him to get the prophecy out of her? The indications are that Trelawney herself doesn't remember the true prophecies she has made (I might be wrong about this), but I'd be willing to bet that Lord Voldemort would be resourceful enough to find ways of digging them out of her. Voldemort didn't seem too disappointed when he learned the prophecy was destroyed at the Ministry of Magic, considering that he had been planning to get the prophecy for quite a while. Was it because he knew he had another way of hearing the prophecy? Trelawney may be in more danger than she herself knows.

One reason that Dumbledore hired Trelawney was definitely to protect her. As Voldemort wants to know the whole prophecy, Sibyll is the very person who you would go to.
On the other hand, having a Seer whose prophecy concerns the life and death of Voldemort, you could do some good tactics, for example, you could manipulate with the enemy, mislead them or even lure into a trap. It is the power of knowledge, which Voldemort doesn't possess. It could be crucial to the defeat of the Dark wizards.

And there has to be something more to her, because Umbridge sacked her. Yes, Sibyll IS a bit incompetent. But still, the High Inquisitor worked on the Ministry orders to rid the school of Dumbledore supporters and not to check if the teachers are good at their work. Hagrid is a half-giant but the biggest (literally) Headmaster supporter and that was the reason Umbridge was after him. McGonagall would have lost her post too but was impossible to find a flaw in her teaching - and even Umbridge could not kick her out of Hogwarts without plausible excuse.

[Tane]

I would agree with everyone who suggests that Dumbledore feels the need to protect Trelawney as she could be a very valuable asset to Voldemort. Not only that but Voldemort was probably told who originally spoke of the prophecy, so she could be a target for Voldemort. Trelawney can not be that secure at Hogwarts though because Voldemort has infiltrated the school on more than one occasion may it be in different forms or ways. I have a feeling that if Voldemort wants Trelawney then he will just break into Hogwarts again and take her like he did with Harry in GoF. Did Voldemort find out about the second prophecy because if he did then he may go after Trelawney, if not then he may be fouled into thinking that the original prophecy documents the whole story, from Harry being born to Voldemort's death. The fact that Voldemort went for the first prophecy rather than the one who spoke it, suggests that he does not realize how important Trelawney is considering the fact that she foretold the coming together of servant and master.Umbridge could not kick her out of Hogwarts without plausible excuse.Umbridge would have given Trelawney to Voldemort and the death eaters if she succeeded in kicking her out of Hogwarts, evil women.I bet Harry will have more respect for her now. With him knowing about the prophecy and all.More like Hermione showing more respect for Trelawney because she would not even attend her classes, at least the other two did. For once Hermione got something wrong.