CoSForums Archive - Does anybody know how Dumbledore saved Umbridge from the forbidden forest?

arcanus

August 11th, 2004, 12:59 pm

I guess that is one of the mysteries of Dumbledore we'll never find out. He is after all a powerful wizard who is respected by almost anybody. Even the first gurg of the giants had heard about him and that means something. Personally I think that he didn't use magic or anything, the leader of the centaurs probably respected him

By the way, :welcome: to the forums.

clara_bell

August 11th, 2004, 1:12 pm

He probably apparated her to the sick bay

potterfreak

August 11th, 2004, 1:18 pm

I wonder how Dumbledore saved Umbridge. What do you think?

I whish he hadn't :evil: :evil:

you know, only jo knows for sure ...

angel spirit

August 11th, 2004, 1:19 pm

I think the centaurs don't respect Dumbledore at all due to the harsh treatment of Firenze. Dumbledore most likely picked Umbridge up after the centaurs were done with her.

eggie

August 11th, 2004, 1:22 pm

Nope

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v355/eggsarewhiteyup/johntravolta3.jpg">

Classical_Wizar

August 11th, 2004, 1:25 pm

could you resize that please?

clara_bell

August 11th, 2004, 1:32 pm

Your John Travolta picture is messing up our browsers, please resize it. Thankyou.

Tane

August 11th, 2004, 1:38 pm

He probably apparated her to the sick bayYou can not apparate in or out of Hogwarts. I bet he just knew where the centaurs would have chased Umbridge to and then went in after her, probably did some sort of locate spell to find her too and went in on foot.

clara_bell

August 11th, 2004, 1:56 pm

Yeah nobody can apparate in or out of Hogwarts but come on, its Dumbledore who has the power and control to do what he likes. His school.

Auror Williamson

August 11th, 2004, 4:13 pm

Rictusempra90

August 11th, 2004, 4:20 pm

Does the spell Mobilicorpus ring a bell?

I assume that as Headmaster of the grounds of Hogwarts, he has quite a hefty power among the creatures that populate the Forbidden Forest. A small pack of centaurs must have some sort of an obligation to bow to the wishes of the most powerful wizard in the world who also happens to be the master of the forest.
In the OoTP, the centaurs said something like the forbidden forest war theirs, and then Hagrid said the forest belonged to everyone.
I think th centaurs think they own the forest.

Fool

August 11th, 2004, 4:23 pm

I imagine that even though the centaurs don't like to mingle with humans, and see humans as less intelligent beings, I'm sure they probably respect Dumbledore's wisdom. Dumbledore would also be clever enough not to say anything that would highly offend the centaurs. Perhaps he subdued Grawp too.

oryon

August 12th, 2004, 3:38 pm

atherella

August 12th, 2004, 5:24 pm

Hi! I think that whit the help of Fawkes anyone could do anything.Just remember that when Dumbledore mest up Cornelius Fudge`s plans :evil: :evil: he grabbed Fawkes taile and they dissapeared!!! This is much more than teleporting....this means that who has a Phoenix can travel out and in from Hogwarts whenever he likes.. :cool:

That's exactly what I was thinking. I don't think it was ever mentioned where Fawkes was at the time, so it's very likely he was with DD. We know from both CoS and OotP that Fawkes can carry several people at a time. (Pulling Harry & Ginny out of the chamber, then eventually adding Ron and Lockhart also...strong little guy, and also in OotP, when DD disappears from his office when Fudge tries to arrest him.)

I wish we knew what the centaurs thought of the whole thing, can't imagine them being very happy about it. They were very angry at Firenz for going to teach for DD, feeling it a betrayal, so I doubt that they care for DD very much, as he is human. But, DD is so powerful, who knows, he must have SO MANY powers that we know nothing about. I hope we see lots more of DD, I just love him!! :)

lewis8604

August 12th, 2004, 5:37 pm

Angelina X

August 12th, 2004, 6:05 pm

Maybe it was a huge blood bath. I mean if you tick off a giant he's gonna fight back.There puny arrows would be nothing. He probably was off killing centaurs when DD showed up calmed down Grawp (he probably speaks giant) and the centaurs were grateful. Maybe they will be less like jerks during book 6 because of it.

That's a very good theory. I also wondered how DD got Umbridge out of the FF and away from the centaurs. I also wondered why the centaurs did not kill her. Heck, they were going to kill Firenze for going to work for DD so surely a human could expect no better treatment.

Resolute

August 13th, 2004, 2:33 am

Dude, he's freaking Dumbledore. He made 2 aurors, 2 MoM higher-ups, and the Minister for Magic himself his ***** in the span of about 5 seconds. I don't think a pack of centaurs would be much to him. I think Rowling's intention in leaving the method of Umbridge's rescue to the imagination was simply to give us more of idea of how much The Man Dumbledore is.

londonknight

August 13th, 2004, 2:39 am

Well to be fair, it was only 1 higher up as Percy had left the room, and Kingsley didn't put up much of a fight seeing as he is in the order. :p

But as for how he saved her. It is indeed Dumbledore. For all we know anyway Grawp could have chased the Centaurs and they may have dropped Umbridge and she may have crawled away from them. Dumbledore may have just retrieved her from the forest.

aluminium

August 13th, 2004, 2:50 am

Err... I don't even remember it being mentioned that Umbridge was rescued by Dumbledore. Could someone tell me where it said that, as I don't have that book with me at the moment?

latiem

August 13th, 2004, 3:14 am

And we care about Umbridge Because.....?

Who cares she should have died in the forest the centaurs should have finished her off when they had the chance or Grawp should have eaten her or Aragog or the car should have run her over repeatedly.
And that would be the end of that toad Umbridge.

ComicBookWorm

August 13th, 2004, 10:24 am

Does it matter. It's too bad he didn't leave her there. He's Dumbledore, he can pretty much accomplish anything he needs to.:D

filius

August 13th, 2004, 10:32 am

Zelkiiro

August 13th, 2004, 2:26 pm

Dumbledore is awesome. He can do whatever he wants. Even if it means bending the rules of time and space to save Umbridge or cook his TV Dinners.

Machiavelli

August 13th, 2004, 3:37 pm

It's so much cooler not to know how he did it! That description of him just walking out with her.... classic Dubledore. Actually, it does two important things. It demostrates again just how powerful D is, and it also points out once more the difference between Dumbledore and Voldemort. Dumbledore saved Umbridge because it was the right thing to do - no matter how foul she is. He has the power to save her and he uses it - V has the power to kill and does so. I only hope that since she's out of the forest we get to SEE how much she suffers!!

jmcc

August 13th, 2004, 6:20 pm

Like in PoA, Lupin didn't give the Marauders Map back to Harry but he had it back in GoF because JK didn't find it to be important to write in the books, because she thought we would figure it out ourselves. But I don't think how he rescued her matters. Like the PoA example, it wasn't important how at all and so was not written.

Huh? He gave it back to him, along with the invisibility cloak, when he was packing at the end. He said since he wasn't a teacher anymore he didn't feel guilty about it.

atherella

August 13th, 2004, 6:56 pm

Huh? He gave it back to him, along with the invisibility cloak, when he was packing at the end. He said since he wasn't a teacher anymore he didn't feel guilty about it.

I'm not speaking for Filius here at all, but I think he meant at the end of GoF, rather than PoA, when Harry gets the map back from fake Moody/Barty Jr. It never directly says how Harry got the map back from him, and JKR said that she thought we'd all know that Harry went and stole it back.

LuvHP_001

August 13th, 2004, 7:01 pm

I whish he hadn't :evil: :evil:

you know, only jo knows for sure ...

LOL!!!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

UR RIGHT..no one knows except Jo....it'd be awesome if she was dead! :tu: :evil: :rotfl: :p :elaugh: :lol: :lol: :lol:

michaela

August 13th, 2004, 7:13 pm

I don't think the Centaurs dare oppose Dumbledore. I don't really care though. But i'm sure he would have been able to rescue her with one word to the centaurs.
Like in PoA, Lupin didn't give the Marauders Map back to Harry but he had it back in GoF because JK didn't find it to be important to write in the books, because she thought we would figure it out ourselves. But I don't think how he rescued her matters. Like the PoA example, it wasn't important how at all and so was not written.

I think it was more the case of saving Umbridge from Grawp, if I remember rightly didn't Grawp come and save Harry and Hermione from the centaurs, and then he started fighting against them himself? So in this case Dumbledore would have to stop Grawp attacking the centaurs, and Umbridge was probably unconscious fron the centaurs before Grawp attacked them, divering their attention.

atherella

August 13th, 2004, 7:29 pm

I think it was more the case of saving Umbridge from Grawp, if I remember rightly didn't Grawp come and save Harry and Hermione from the centaurs, and then he started fighting against them himself? So in this case Dumbledore would have to stop Grawp attacking the centaurs, and Umbridge was probably unconscious fron the centaurs before Grawp attacked them, divering their attention.

Slightly off topic a bit, and I apologize, but I sincerely hope that Evil Umbridge wasn't unconscious with the centaurs. I hope she was awake and suffered through every moment of her time with them. I hope the memories of that night haunt her for the rest of her miserable life. :evil:

michaela

August 13th, 2004, 7:49 pm

Hehehe, that would be good atherella.

NoTiMesNaKe

August 13th, 2004, 8:04 pm

Yeah nobody can apparate in or out of Hogwarts but come on, its Dumbledore who has the power and control to do what he likes. His school.

His school or not, it is most likely you cannot apparate through wards, even if you placed them there yourself. The only way for him to apparate to the school would be if he removed the wards before hand.

fleur magique

August 13th, 2004, 8:27 pm

I had always though that Dumbledore and the Centuars had a certain amount of respect for each other. I figured that Dumbledore went into the forest and talked with them and convinced them to give her back.

ComicBookWorm

August 14th, 2004, 5:34 am

I know she was awake because all you have to do is make clippity clop sound to disturb her. :evil:

oryon

August 14th, 2004, 4:42 pm

To the blood-bath theory: it is highly unlikely, but not 100% cleared, I think that D would not do such a thing just to recover what left from Umbridge :no: I remain at my theory: he went in with the help of Fawkes, and just took her out of there, because the Centaurs are very-very upset with D, and I`m almoust convinced that they would attack him, not as he could not defeat them.. ;)

groikleflit

August 14th, 2004, 5:52 pm

Maybe Dumbledore went in, transfigured the centaurs into teddy bears :eyebrows: resisted the urge to transfigure Umbridge into something delightfully unpleasant, and took Umbridge off to the sickbay

Maybe Dumbledore went in, transfigured the centaurs into teddy bears :eyebrows: resisted the urge to transfigure Umbridge into something delightfully unpleasant, and took Umbridge off to the sickbay

percivalwulfric

August 14th, 2004, 10:21 pm

Well i have concocted up an idea of how dumbledore did it, i think he went into the forest and because he is the most powerfully magical person around he went into the forest invisible (he said that he doesnt need a cloak to turn invisible) he went deep into the forest found out where the cenataurs were keeping umbridge used some magic to make her feather light and carried her away to the hospital wing, or he could of used the summoning charm and whizzed her to the hospital wing

Or he could of went in and asked them nicely, or used his magig to subdue the half breeds and get imbridge out of there, maybe he asked hagrid to go in, no that wouldnt work he is not on very good terms with the cenataurs beacause he is freinds with firienze, maybe umbridge fought her way free and stumbled out of the forest. Actually no i think that it was Grawp the did it he came trundling through the forest making menacing noises scared of the pony's and umbridge got free of her ropes and made her way out of the castle up to the forest.

Padfoot II

August 15th, 2004, 1:44 am

a better question would be...
Does anybody know WHY ANYONE WOULD want to save Umbridge from the forbidden forest???

rotsiepots

August 15th, 2004, 2:59 am

While the centaurs strike me as being utterly defiant and indifferent towards humans, I think Dumbledore would still command a certain amount of respect from them. While I understand the centaurs weren't thrilled when Dumbledore appointed Firenze to work at Hogwarts, they would still recognise that Dumbledore has power and authority that even they can't overcome.

I think Dumbledore would have just strode in and out with Umbridge. I doubt he even used his wand to control the centaurs; Dumbledore doesn't seem like the type to walk into a situation "all wands blazing". I'm sure Dumbledore can be very intimidating when he wants to be and utilised this to its full effect to retrieve Umbridge.

As for why he retrieved her, even though Dumbledore disliked the woman he wouldn't want her trampled to death in his forest. It's just not cricket.

ComicBookWorm

August 15th, 2004, 3:50 am

I think Dumbledore would have just strode in and out with Umbridge. I doubt he even used his wand to control the centaursThat's what I pictured. As for why he retrieved her, even though Dumbledore disliked the woman he wouldn't want her trampled to death in his forest. It's just not cricket.Too bad :evil:

morgiana

August 15th, 2004, 4:08 am

"DD had strode alone into the forest to rescue her from the CENTAURS. How he had emerged from the trees supporting Professor UMB without so much as a scratch on him - nobody knew." (pg 848 OotP)

I would guess he made himself invisable. Then did some stunning spell on the centaurs. Then went in and got her.

For a wizard of DD stature this was not a difficult rescue.

Libertine

August 15th, 2004, 5:17 am

which character said that the world isn't divided into good people and death eathers? umbridge is a foul, evil, witch, but she is still a person and dumbledore will never let someone die on his watch, i think. she's got her comeuppance now, let's just see how much influence she wields in the ministry after this incident.

and how dumbledore did it? no bloody idea. i doubt the centaurs were respectful to him though. they must think he's arrogant to put firenze into "servitude". and by the way, divination is such a useless subject (especially if you're a human and likely don't have the gift for it) that i don't think firenze's sacrifice was really worth it. he could have been killed, and all to teach a subject that no one really cares about or understands.

aluminium

August 15th, 2004, 6:09 am

i don't think firenze's sacrifice was really worth it. he could have been killed, and all to teach a subject that no one really cares about or understands.Though this is a little sidetracked from the thread, I think Dumbledore needed a replacement so another MoM-appointed person wouldn't come in. But why Firenze? I don't know.

michaela

August 15th, 2004, 6:15 pm

Dumbledore wanted to annoy Umbridge, and I think Dumbledore would of though that Firenze would give interesting lesson, and teach the subject from a different prospective which is always good.

WitheredShadow

August 15th, 2004, 11:39 pm

I have a question (and I'm not being rude, this is comical!): Does anyone care how he got her out? Admit it- we'd much rather him have left her there. I would have....

TylerDurden

August 16th, 2004, 12:21 am

I think it's just one of those things that we aren't supposed to find out, its a way of explaining just how cool Dumbledore is. I'm actually very glad he saved her, yes, she probably did deserve the torture she got, but, once again, it shows how cool he is.

As for my opinion as to how he did it, I tyink he pulled a Buzz Lightyear. Something like, "I come in peace." Seriously.

Dion7115

August 16th, 2004, 11:54 am

I think saving Umbridge is a wise choice because if she survived without Dumbledore's help, she would possibly hate Dumbledore and Harry even more and would try to do some even more dreadful things to hurt Harry.

michaela

August 16th, 2004, 12:28 pm

oryon

August 16th, 2004, 1:46 pm

In my opinion Dumbledore took it as a natural thing to rescue Umbridge :grumble:, it didn`t cross his mind to leave her there..(what a pity)

As to the invisible opinion: it is highly unlikely because the Centaurs have very powerfull smelling, hearing and seeing capabilities...so they would have smelled Dumbledore fgom a mile away.

michaela

August 20th, 2004, 8:36 am

I agree with you as well oryon. Dumbledore could easily stop the centaurs attacking him, and I don't think they would anyway.

oryon

August 20th, 2004, 9:01 am

in my opinion as well: no creature dares to attack Dumbledore because he could easily get ridd of them:):)

Saiorri

August 20th, 2004, 9:07 am

um, actually,it WAS PoA that Harry swiped the Mapback from, not GoF.

atherella

August 20th, 2004, 6:24 pm

um, actually,it WAS PoA that Harry swiped the Mapback from, not GoF.

Just to clear this up. Here's the quote from JKR.

HPFreak7: How did Harry get the Marauder's Map back, when Crouch Jr. had it last?

JK Rowling replies -> Loads of people have asked me this, I knew I should have shown Harry nipping into Moody's empty office and getting it back, but I assumed you'd all know that's what he did. Sorry!

Since Moody wasn't IN PoA, that wasn't what she was discussing. We already know at the end of PoA that Lupin GIVES the map back to Harry because he said since he is no longer Harry's teacher he doesn't feel guilty giving it to him. Harry didn't have to steal it back in PoA.

miss_hermione

August 20th, 2004, 6:32 pm

I think dumbledore might have sent firenze out into the forest to receive professor umbridge. Maybe firenze got onto the good side of his kind again. Any replies to this?

Hannibal Barca

August 20th, 2004, 8:53 pm

I think dumbledore might have sent firenze out into the forest to receive professor umbridge. Maybe firenze got onto the good side of his kind again. Any replies to this?

I don't think so. the book says that Dumbledore strode alone into the forest and brought Umbridge back out himself.

as for how he did it, I don't think we're meant to know. it's one of those things where you're supposed to just know that he did, and that's it. it adds to his mystique

miss_hermione

August 20th, 2004, 10:17 pm

I don't think so. the book says that Dumbledore strode alone into the forest and brought Umbridge back out himself.

as for how he did it, I don't think we're meant to know. it's one of those things where you're supposed to just know that he did, and that's it. it adds to his mystique

I agree. I dont' think JkR wanted readers to know all the secrets of Albus Dumbledore. He's just an amazing character who has secrets that jk has concealed, like harry's. Maybe in the upcoming books, she'll reveal their secrets slowly, and we'll just have to read closly and pick them up.

Mattie727

August 22nd, 2004, 2:36 am

I think Dumbledore is too much of a kind heart to let an innocent person die. Although Umbridge is a cruel and nasty person, she is in no way connected to Voldemort, and in some twisted sence the old bag was trying to do the right thing. And if he did let her die in the forbidden forest, I think we would lose that innocent, wise, and caring grandfather image.

princess_potter

August 22nd, 2004, 3:05 am

We can tell since the beginning, it has been apparent, that the centurs, a race that does not trust any other, has held Dumbledore in the high respect, and yet when Firenze had gone to work for him, the centures begin to show their first sign of hate, but also alas, the first sign that they wish no part in this war. However, we must understand that there is more to dumbldore then meets the eye, he is compassionate, adn trustworthy, but also possesses a trait that many wizards have forgotten, and liek Harry, it is this trait as he had stated "that keeps him human"....his emotions. THe mere fact that DUmbledore has the abiility to feel, to feel anger, frusturation, joy and curiousity, all this contribute to his overalkl character..for wasn't it is his love that prevented Harry from knowing the truth about his destiny and about his being? We all know the centures possess a remarkable ability to see past one's apperence into their inner being, and perhaps even though they may be angry with Dumbledore in regards to hiring Firenze....they understand his intentions are not for his own selfish reasons, but for a more vast need. However I believe we can expect more from the centures, perhaps a rebellion even, as it was evident in OotP...there seems to be some unstableness amoung the pack...first with Firenze, and then with arguments amoung each other (ex. when some refused to kill Harry and Hermione because they do not kill the young). However iwth an ancient race such as them, the overwelming demands of the modern world will have an effect in the future. We will just have to wait and see..