Who Will Fall in Love with Whom? v. 30... 30 baby!!

[lanifiel]

Greetings and welcome to an all new experience! Thats rights! Now active in the love thread are various deadly traps and decoys to throw you off the scent and get you mained brutally!! All for the enjoyment of your fellow shippers... Ahhh Society...

Rules stuff:

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The problem with a thread of this type is that there is an obvious division forming between those who ship for Harry/Hermione and those who ship for Ron/Hermione, plus supporters of other ships wading in with their own ideas. Naturally, tensions within this thread have increased, forcing staff to keep an extra eye on what is being said. This has resulted in many participants of the love thread sending PMs to members of staff justifying their own cases and attempting to prove the other side is guilty of causing misbehaviour. This is not helping to resolve the issue.

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Shippers

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And... GO!

[Avada Kedavra]

Finally! Do I get post number 1?

We need a new topic to discuss...

[Nathaniel]

Darn you, A K! I wanted it :sad:!

Well... I'm #2, so that's cool.

Hey, someone post the shipping lists. I'm curious as to the size of the lists. And, um... this is probably the dumbest question possible, but, what happened to the poll?

[Mumps]

Who Will Fall in Love with Whom? v. 30... 30 baby!!
Great title ;)

“Ooh—you are getting good. Why do you think that it is Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, obviously. I like the goat clue—I sniggered to myself about that one.”

JKR thinks the questioner is “getting good” for spotting that clue. Now, quite frankly (and I think that most would agree) that that was a no-brainer. Yet people who spotted that are “getting good”.

Another example: Speaking of Harry’s impending crush in the then yet to be published GoF, JKR said this:

“Careful readers of book three will already know who the girl is."

And just who, pray tell me, didn’t get that Harry fancied Cho from the moment he set eyes upon her in PoA? Yet those of us who did get it (and let’s be honest, we all must have) are deemed to be “careful readers”.

From the above we can reasonably conclude precisely how deeply JKR expects us to read between the lines to get these clues. We are “getting good” if we spotted that Aberforth Dumbledore is the Hog's Head barman and we are “careful readers” if we correctly identified that Harry fancied Cho in PoA. And yet JKR “can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked it out” when trying to establish whether Hermione loves Ron or Harry.
I think the "getting good" was sarcasm.
I really, after reading OotP I think that H/C is well and truely over.
But that's one step.
I don't think that we have to read too carefully to see that Hermione and Harry care deeply for eachother, and eachother's safety.

[Avada Kedavra]

Darn you, A K! I wanted it :sad:!

Well... I'm #2, so that's cool.

Hey, someone post the shipping lists. I'm curious as to the size of the lists. And, um... this is probably the dumbest question possible, but, what happened to the poll?

Xray usually has the honors of posting them.

The poll exploded because of the huge amount of Pumpkinpie votes. :cool:

[Daveydee]

Not that I really have time for this, but I really felt the need to comment on the earlier discussion of JK’s Q & A session last weekend.

“Well—[Laughter.] What do you think? [Audience member: I think they will]. I’m not going to say. I can’t say, can I? I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I’m going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one.”!

Firstly, my own view is that she was referring (“You will have to read between the lines”) to the answer ( “on that one”) she had just given, but that is a moot point which I am not prepared to argue (incidentally the clues to which she refers are probably a combination of canon clues and clues she has given in previous interviews).

So let’s just assume for one minute that the “reading between the lines” remark refers to what is in the books. The fact of the matter is that you do have to read between the lines to get the gist of R/Hr.

Nowhere is it explicitly stated that Hermione is jealous of Ron's interactions with Fleur - we deduce it by reading between the lines of Hermione's reactions.

Nowhere is it explicitly stated that Ron feels something for Hermione - we deduce it by reading between the lines of the Yule Brawl.

There are many, many more examples of this nature, which I could cite. The point is that Harmonians and Pumpkinites do not, I'm afraid, have exclusivity on what is "between the lines". The only question then becomes: How deeply does JKR expect us to read between the lines?

Fortunately we can make a reasonably accurate assessment of that. My favourite answer from last weekend was this in response to whether the Hog’s Head barman is Aberforth Dumbledore:

“Ooh—you are getting good. Why do you think that it is Aberforth? [Audience member: Various clues. He smells of goats and he looks a bit like Dumbledore]. I was quite proud of that clue. That is all that I am going to say. [Laughter]. Well yes, obviously. I like the goat clue—I sniggered to myself about that one.”

JKR thinks the questioner is “getting good” for spotting that clue. Now, quite frankly (and I think that most would agree) that that was a no-brainer. Yet people who spotted that are “getting good”.

Another example: Speaking of Harry’s impending crush in the then yet to be published GoF, JKR said this:

“Careful readers of book three will already know who the girl is."

And just who, pray tell me, didn’t get that Harry fancied Cho from the moment he set eyes upon her in PoA? Yet those of us who did get it (and let’s be honest, we all must have) are deemed to be “careful readers”.

From the above we can reasonably conclude precisely how deeply JKR expects us to read between the lines to get these clues. We are “getting good” if we spotted that Aberforth Dumbledore is the Hogshead barman and we are “careful readers” if we correctly identified that Harry fancied Cho in PoA. And yet JKR “can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked it out” when trying to establish whether Hermione loves Ron or Harry.

Let’s just say that it’s most unlikely that JKR is expecting us to look too far “between the lines” for the answer to that question. I highly doubt that she has dancing teacups, the teachings of Plato or the Hippogriff of Lurrve in mind.

NB: Repost, since my first attempt was right at the end of the last thread.

[IceKat55]

Good grief...we made it to the Big 3-0!!! :clap:

If kissing Harry on the cheek is not showing affection (as it has been argued), then neither would Hermione kissing Ron on the cheek. If kissing Harry on the cheek is showing affection, then so is the same with Hermione kissing Ron on the cheek and that was for Quidditch.
It is showing affection in both cases. She loves both boys. Just, in different ways. Why does a kiss on the cheek have to mean the exact same thing, in both cases, to her?

[green_ginevra]

sorry sorry, this is from the last version, but.
Thanks...I read your argument from yesterday. I found this canon to be most interesting:
not a problem, wannabeweasley. i try not to miss an opportunity to argue for my ship. i also luuuuuurve the library scene...probably one of my favorites ever ^.^ and you can bet that i love the end of it the most...teeheeheeeeeee...i'll find stronger bits of canon to support my ideas about the library scene, and you'll be a chocolate believer yet, weasley! ^.~ hehe, i'm just kidding around of course.

[mozinha]

Eheheheheh let me try to keep up with this thread. It's not easy you guys keep posting so much, I always get lost lololololol
By the way, Harry and Hermione Rulzzzzzzz

[TheFifthMarauder]

If kissing Harry on the cheek is not showing affection (as it has been argued), then neither would Hermione kissing Ron on the cheek. If kissing Harry on the cheek is showing affection, then so is the same with Hermione kissing Ron on the cheek and that was for Quidditch.

It's not Hermione's action that's important in that scene, it was the boys' reactions. I believe that Ron brought his hand up to his cheek where she kissed him in disbelief (I don't have the book with me at the moment, so I can't post the exact wording). I vaguely remember Harry just shrugging it off. I don't think he thought too much about it.

[wannabeweasley]

sorry sorry, this is from the last version, but.

not a problem, wannabeweasley. i try not to miss an opportunity to argue for my ship. i also luuuuuurve the library scene...probably one of my favorites ever ^.^ and you can bet that i love the end of it the most...teeheeheeeeeee...i'll find stronger bits of canon to support my ideas about the library scene, and you'll be a chocolate believer yet, weasley! ^.~ hehe, i'm just kidding around of course.

Hey greeny (sorry, that's kinda a funny nickname)

Keep tryin!!! I think H/G is so much more subtle than my ship...maybe I'm just not good with subtlety....

[Lindy]

Waaait! Ahhhhh! Add me to HMS Chocolate and Heron before you post the list!

[wannabeweasley]

Waaait! Ahhhhh! Add me to HMS Chocolate and Heron before you post the list!
I think you have to OWL xray.

[cassellfor3]

It's not Hermione's action that's important in that scene, it was the boys' reactions. I believe that Ron brought his hand up to his cheek where she kissed him in disbelief (I don't have the book with me at the moment, so I can't post the exact wording). I vaguely remember Harry just shrugging it off. I don't think he thought too much about it.

But it can be debated that determining the purpose of Hermione's actions is important, because its important to understand how she feels toward the boys. It's really because of our inability to determine the motives for her actions that we can have such discussions. Think about the semicolon arguement we were having last thread; the whole debate was based upon Hermione's action being "clear" or not. It's quite confusing.

[FoxyDoxy]

At the moment I think it could go either wat depending on two things. Ron somehow winning Hermione over, or Harry developing a physical attraction to Her ( I believe, and I'm sure most would agree that he loves her- how is open to despute)

I am certain that R-->Hr-->H because..

Well R-->Hr is so in your face you'd have to be a flobberworm not to notice.
As for Hr-->H (which is less obvious) here's what I think.

to avoid going over old ground I'll ignore the fact (as do most R/Hr shippers-lol)that she does puts him first, and the gift argument etc...

1. What is stopping her getting with Ron?
She's afraid Harry would feel left out? Unlikely, she and Ron would never shut him out unless they had to. Besides if she felt that strongly then she'd find a way to deal with it. She's pretty good at making Harry feel better about things.
She's shy? Possibly but she's had plenty of time to deal with her suposed feelings and has never been shy around him. Embarrassed maybe- but never shy.
She's afraid that he dosen't feel the same way? She's the smartest girl in school- I think she's worked it out.

Let's face it there's nothing stopping R/Hr so why's it not happening. The only reason that I can think of is that she does not feel the same. Now let's look at Harry.

He is not attracted to her. He finds her pretty but as yet no spark.
1. What is stopping her getting with Harry?
She's afraid Ron will feel left out? Darn tootin' The boy loves her and she knows it'll crush him. I think her big brain will work it all out though.
She's shy? No, she seems VERY comfortable with Harry
She's afraid that he dosen't feel the same way? Yep I think so. Hermione is very reserved and seems the type to wait until she's sure he feels the same way.

HBP will be crucial in the romantic storyline as J.K can not ignore the feelings floating around. If it is to be R/Hr then Ron will have to win her over if it's H/Hr then Harry needs develop an interest.

I think it's more likely that Harry will develop an interest. He and Hermione grow closer and closer all the time. He relys on her and with Sirius' death he will need her more than ever. J.K said herself 'Harry needs Hermione badly'

I'm not saying that it's impossible that Ron'll win Hermione over but I think he'll have alot of work on his hands to impress her. He's already proven his loyalty and bravery yet she barely bats an eyelid.

I leave you with this:


Quote:
OotP 'the sorting hats new song'-uk version pg 189:
OP J.K Rowling

His mouth was so full Harry thought it was quite an achievement for him to make any noise at all.
<snip> Hermione looked revolted.


What a dreamboat!

[MoodyMania]

If Harry dates Hermione. Ron is left out. Ron wouldn't want to be around them, especially since he likes Hermione. I for one, think that Ron is way to important to them to let that happen, but it would if they got together.
If Harry dates within the trio, it would put more negative pressure them than it would if he dated Luna or Parvati or Ginny. I believe that Ron is a very important character, and I just don't see him being pushed into the background.
This is from the last thread. I would just like to ask those people that think Ron has matured and is continuing to mature why he would feel so bad if his 2 best friends liked each other? I mean if he knows Hermione doesn’t like him that way and he has matured I’m sure he would see her's and Harry’s happiness as being important. And if this is the case them he wouldn’t be too upset.

However, if he hasn’t matured yet and still feels that getting what he wants is the most important thing to him then I could see him as upset with the above situation should it occur. Agree, disagree? And why?

[wannabeweasley]

But it can be debated that determining the purpose of Hermione's actions is important, because its important to understand how she feels toward the boys. It's really because of our inability to determine the motives for her actions that we can have such discussions. Think about the semicolon arguement we were having last thread; the whole debate was based upon Hermione's action being "clear" or not. It's quite confusing.

IMO - Hermione's actions are never clear. If they were...this thread would be full of Chocolateers just chatting amongst themselves.

[green_ginevra]

Hey greeny (sorry, that's kinda a funny nickname)

Keep tryin!!! I think H/G is so much more subtle than my ship...maybe I'm just not good with subtlety....
by all means, call me greeny if you want...(and i'll ignore the fact that that's a dog treat.) green is just my favorite color ^.^ chocolate is subtle, eh? i won't deny that ^.~

[rjade829]

Er...how do I get to version 29? I need to quote something from it

EDIT:

Never mind, got it.

[Snowthorn]

Please forgive me if I'm lame but can someone explain some terminology? I know:

Harry/Hermione = Harmony (and Harmonians etc)
Hermione/Ron = Heron (likewise Heronians etc)

But what is Pumpkinpie? and Chocolate?

[cassellfor3]

At the moment I think it could go either wat depending on two things. Ron somehow winning Hermione over, or Harry developing a physical attraction to Her ( I believe, and I'm sure most would agree that he loves her- how is open to despute)

I am certain that R-->Hr-->H because..

Well R-->Hr is so in your face you'd have to be a flobberworm not to notice.
As for Hr-->H (which is less obvious) here's what I think.

to avoid going over old ground I'll ignore the fact (as do most R/Hr shippers-lol)that she does puts him first, and the gift argument etc...

1. What is stopping her getting with Ron?
She's afraid Harry would feel left out? Unlikely, she and Ron would never shut him out unless they had to. Besides if she felt that strongly then she'd find a way to deal with it. She's pretty good at making Harry feel better about things.
She's shy? Possibly but she's had plenty of time to deal with her suposed feelings and has never been shy around him. Embarrassed maybe- but never shy.
She's afraid that he dosen't feel the same way? She's the smartest girl in school- I think she's worked it out.

Let's face it there's nothing stopping R/Hr so why's it not happening. The only reason that I can think of is that she does not feel the same. Now let's look at Harry.

He is not attracted to her. He finds her pretty but as yet no spark.
1. What is stopping her getting with Harry?
She's afraid Ron will feel left out? Darn tootin' The boy loves her and she knows it'll crush him. I think her big brain will work it all out though.
She's shy? No, she seems VERY comfortable with Harry
She's afraid that he dosen't feel the same way? Yep I think so. Hermione is very reserved and seems the type to wait until she's sure he feels the same way.

HBP will be crucial in the romantic storyline as J.K can not ignore the feelings floating around. If it is to be R/Hr then Ron will have to win her over if it's H/Hr then Harry needs develop an interest.

I think it's more likely that Harry will develop an interest. He and Hermione grow closer and closer all the time. He relys on her and with Sirius' death he will need her more than ever. J.K said herself 'Harry needs Hermione badly'

I'm not saying that it's impossible that Ron'll win Hermione over but I think he'll have alot of work on his hands to impress her. He's already proven his loyalty and bravery yet she barely bats an eyelid.

I leave you with this:





What a dreamboat!

I actually think there is something that is causing Hermione and Ron from getting together, and I don't think it's as simple as you say it is. I discussed this in the last version, but it seems to me that Hermione is having trouble getting over Ron's emotional insecurites that he displayed at the Yule Ball. It seems to me that she needs a sign that Ron has grown up and can handle a more mature relationship. I think that's what she's waiting for.

[Lindy]

pumpkinpie is harmony, chocolate/orange crush is H/G and Good Ship is R/hr

[wannabeweasley]

This is from the last thread. I would just like to ask those people that think Ron has matured and is continuing to mature why he would feel so bad if his 2 best friends liked each other? I mean if he knows Hermione doesn’t like him that way and he has matured I’m sure he would see her's and Harry’s happiness as being important. And if this is the case them he wouldn’t be too upset.

However, if he hasn’t matured yet and still feels that getting what he wants is the most important thing to him then I could see him as upset with the above situation should it occur. Agree, disagree? And why?

Everyone in this thread can pretty much agree that Hermione is freakin awesome. (Maybe that's just me) Who wouldn't want to be her friend...and maybe more. So, I can't help but think of Ron as disappointed, no matter how mature he becomes, if he loses Hermione to his best friend.
I know that he wants Harry to be happy...but, c'mon, it would be tough.

I guess this idea of a love triangle kinda irks me. I don't see it fitting into my HP world.

[Nathaniel]

I need to do this. The whole thing with the kiss... I'm cutting this bush down before it causes a war. The kiss Hermione gave Ron before his first (or his biggest?) Quidditch match was for good luck, not because she likes him. Until she's pecking his lips, kisses aren't shippy, they are friendly... so, if you'll excuse me... I have my chainsaw... the bush is going down...

*Rev up my chainsaw (vroooooooom...)*

Man, I feel like Leatherface, and my victim is The Kiss bush...

*In five minutes, the bush comes down*

Now please don't replant the seeds. We really don't need a war over a kiss. It's stupid. In this case, we're Ron and Hermione, fighting over something stupid... and since I started it back near the end of V. 29 because I wanted to get some general speculation of the controversial hyphen, I'm ending it here. That's it, it's done...

Now... does anyone have any new evidence for their ships to debate (or have we exhausted all our sources and our only choice is to beat old bushes... oh, I hope not :scared:)

[green_ginevra]

Everyone in this thread can pretty much agree that Hermione is freakin awesome. (Maybe that's just me) Who wouldn't want to be her friend...and maybe more. So, I can't help but think of Ron as disappointed, no matter how mature he becomes, if he loses Hermione to his best friend.
I know that he wants Harry to be happy...but, c'mon, it would be tough.
couldn't agree more, wannabeweasley.

I guess this idea of a love triangle kinda irks me. I don't see it fitting into my HP world.
same. it just kind of feels like that would take a lot away from the central plot...my opinion, of course.

Now please don't replant the seeds. We really don't need a war over a kiss. It's stupid. In this case, we're Ron and Hermione, fighting over something stupid... and since I started it back near the end of V. 29 because I wanted to get some general speculation of the controversial hyphen, I'm ending it here. That's it, it's done...
:rotfl: haha, that was funny...anyways. i personally didn't think the kiss was shippy, but i definitely thought ron's reaction was.

[FoxyDoxy]

I actually think there is something that is causing Hermione and Ron from getting together, and I don't think it's as simple as you say it is. I discussed this in the last version, but it seems to me that Hermione is having trouble getting over Ron's emotional insecurites that he displayed at the Yule Ball. It seems to me that she needs a sign that Ron has grown up and can handle a more mature relationship. I think that's what she's waiting for.

She's seen Ron do some amazing things. he's proved himself many times yet she has never batted an eyelid. Interestingly though she seems to admire Harrys achievements greatly- even mentioning them to Krum. She also has a stronger reaction whenever Harry tries to defend her.
I see that Ron loves her alot and I feel that she sees it to but I don't think that he'll ever live up to her expectations. it's mean and unfair but sadly that's how it goes sometimes. Besides I don't think that he should have to change for a girl. I think that (assuming he survives) he would be better suited to someone a little less highly strubg who appreciates him for who he is and dosen't expect him to live up to anyone else.
(to me) it is obvious that Harry holds a special place in her heart and she judges other men by this standard- ie Krum. He had the advantage over Harry in that he was older and supposedly a better quidithch player but we saw that he was nowhere near as brave. She un-lnowingly judges Ron by this standard to and never dreamed that he would beat Harry as a prefect (yet even though he does he fails to gain her respect)

[FlyingPhoenix]

So let’s just assume for one minute that the “reading between the lines” remark refers to what is in the books. The fact of the matter is that you do have to read between the lines to get the gist of R/Hr.

What I found it such a case rather more interesting is the assertion that people who are want to know if R/Hr is going to happen never did read between the lines. I mean look at the wording of her answer she said. You will have...

This said You didn't read between the lines.

We can assume JKR knows both camps but saying something like this questioning everything. I'm kinda expecting in a near future a lot more R/Hr essays as we got till now.

Nowhere is it explicitly stated that Hermione is jealous of Ron's interactions with Fleur - we deduce it by reading between the lines of Hermione's reactions.

Nowhere is it explicitly stated that Ron feels something for Hermione - we deduce it by reading between the lines of the Yule Brawl.

Well, JKR never did confirm Hermione's feelings. She made a secret out of it and if I did support R/Hr this were a point what did worry me greatly.
JKR had never a problem to confirm Ron's feelings but not Hermione's.
So I wouldn't in your case do as if Hermione being jealousy at Fleur were fact something its not. Its another fishy point and nobody was able to show me how like Mad-I said that Hermione is jealousy at who Ron give his attention but saying she is scowling at Fleur's smile at Ron. That don't fit well.

JKR thinks the questioner is “getting good” for spotting that clue. Now, quite frankly (and I think that most would agree) that that was a no-brainer. Yet people who spotted that are “getting good”.

Its equal to the assertion that Hermione does like Harry more as a friend due what Krum saw. Its not much different in my book. Since if I may so I was the one who pointed this about the Barman out on a chat and I might say those guys were all together smart enough to get it themself yet again people tend to overlook it just like the fact things regarding Hr--->R aren't that clear rather very unclear till the point we can say its Hr--->H.

And just who, pray tell me, didn’t get that Harry fancied Cho from the moment he set eyes upon her in PoA? Yet those of us who did get it (and let’s be honest, we all must have) are deemed to be “careful readers”.

You got it quite easy to say that Daveydee since you had already GoF in your hands, don't needed to wait a long year. So as I read PoA I didn't think its going to be Cho. After GoF I so did nearlly everyone on this thread think H/C won't happen because of the dead of Cederic. At one point I thought JKR will sort this out before she goes IMO for H/Hr but that was a rather slight thought nothing more.

From the above we can reasonably conclude precisely how deeply JKR expects us to read between the lines to get these clues. We are “getting good” if we spotted that Aberforth Dumbledore is the Hogshead barman and we are “careful readers” if we correctly identified that Harry fancied Cho in PoA. And yet JKR “can’t believe that some of you haven’t worked it out” when trying to establish whether Hermione loves Ron or Harry.

I think this are different cases because in case of Main-Ship we are damned by Harry's biased POV more then as to guess who the barman is or who he likes.

Let’s just say that it’s most unlikely that JKR is expecting us to look too far “between the lines” for the answer to that question. I highly doubt that she has dancing teacups, the teachings of Plato or the Hippogriff of Lurrve in mind.

To bad that its you who is saying this and not JKR, or? Just wait and see how much Lurrve will be in the next book. My, my just the idea it could be H/Hr is irking? Esp. if one knows that is reading between the lines. Like I said the assertion that R/Hr supporter never did so should be frightening.

[honeycombe]

1. What is stopping her getting with Ron?
She's afraid Harry would feel left out? Unlikely, she and Ron would never shut him out unless they had to. Besides if she felt that strongly then she'd find a way to deal with it. She's pretty good at making Harry feel better about things.
She's shy? Possibly but she's had plenty of time to deal with her suposed feelings and has never been shy around him. Embarrassed maybe- but never shy.
She's afraid that he dosen't feel the same way? She's the smartest girl in school- I think she's worked it out.
I also don't think its that simple. Hermione can suss other people's feelings out sure, we've seen that, but i also get the feeling she is quite insecure - her biggest fear is failure.

[rjade829]

This is from the last thread, but I felt a nagging need to respond to it:

Ron constantly puts SPEW down, and has made it pretty clear that he thinks she's wasting her time. Harry is the only one who seems to support it at all (even though he really doesn't, but tells little white lies to Hermione to keep her happy)

It seems to be the popular opinion that Harry has been doing this—telling Hermione “little white lies to keep her happy” about S.P.E.W., pretending that he’s supportive of it when he’s not. To me, the whole issue of S.P.E.W. isn’t that relevant to shipping, but when I saw this I had to respond to it because this simply isn’t true.

I did a thorough search of GoF and OOTP looking for SPEW, house-elfy moments. And what I found was that every time that the subject is brought up, Harry either doesn’t say anything, or he shows a LACK of support. SPEW conversations often feature a lot of bickering between Hermione and Ron, but either no dialogue/thoughts are written in for Harry, or Harry ignores them. NEVER does he actually tell any lies to Hermione that would falsely lead her to think that he is supportive. There are times when his words and actions should tell her otherwise:

From GoF:
"You know, maybe I should try and get some of the villagers involved in S.P.E.W.," Hermione said thoughtfully, looking around the pub.
"Yeah, right," said Harry. He took a swig of butterbeer under his cloak. "Hermione, when are you going to give up on this spew stuff?"
"When house-elves have decent wages and working conditions!" she hissed back.

That sounds blatantly UNsupportive to me.


He and Ron followed Hermione down a flight of stone steps, but instead of ending up in a gloomy underground passage like the one that led to Snape's dungeon, they found themselves in a broad stone corridor, brightly lit with torches, and decorated with cheerful paintings that were mainly of food.
"Oh hang on . . ." said Harry slowly, halfway down the corridor. "Wait a minute, Hermione. . . ."
"What?" She turned around to look at him, anticipation all over her face.
"I know what this is about," said Harry.
He nudged Ron and pointed to the painting just behind Hermione. It showed a gigantic silver fruit bowl.
"Hermione!" said Ron, cottoning on. "You're trying to rope us into that spew stuff again!"
"No, no, I'm not!" she said hastily. "And it's not spew, Ron -"

Harry gets hesitant the moment he suspects that Hermione’s trying to get them into spew stuff and lets her know.


"House-elves!" said Hermione, her eyes flashing. "Not once, in over a thousand pages, does Hogwarts, A History mention that we are all colluding in the oppression of a hundred slaves!"
Harry shook his head and applied himself to his scrambled eggs. His and Ron's lack of enthusiasm had done nothing whatsoever to curb Hermione's determination to pursue justice for house-elves.
True, both of them had paid two Sickles for a S.P.E.W. badge, but they had only done it to keep her quiet. Their Sickles had been wasted, however; if anything, they seemed to have made Hermione more vociferous. She had been badgering Harry and Ron ever since, first to wear the badges, then to persuade others to do the same, and she had also taken to rattling around the Gryffindor common room every evening, cornering people and shaking the collecting tin under their noses.

Harry shakes his head after Hermione’s little rant, not a sign of approval. Also Hermione had noticed that neither Ron NOR Harry had been wearing the badges or promoting SPEW, so she badgered BOTH of them about it. Seems like Harry wasn’t showing any outward signs of supporting SPEW either and Hermione noticed it.

From OOTP:
'Sirius!' she said reproachfully. 'Honestly, if you made a bit of an effort with Kreacher, I'm sure he'd respond. After all, you are the only member of his family he's got left, and Professor Dumbledore said-'
'So, what are Umbridge's lessons like?' Sirius interrupted. 'Is she training you all to kill half-breeds?'
'No', said Harry, ignoring Hermione's affronted look at being cut off in her defense of Kreacher. 'She's not letting us use magic at all!'

Those are the times when Harry shows outright disapproval or disinterest in the house-elf cause.
There are a LOT of other times when SPEW and house-elf related things are mentioned, and Harry, like I said, doesn’t say anything—neither supportive or unsupportive—in those conversations. Go and look for yourself. So because Harry either says nothing or is unsupportive of SPEW, Hermione has no reason to think that he is being particularly supportive, and Harry is NOT trying to trick her into thinking he is. He’s simply politer and less confrontational than Ron, so he doesn’t jump at Hermione and ridicule her every single time she brings it up.
**

Then we have this:
'Oh no', said Hermione, looking relieved, 'if you're going that means I can go too, without being rude. I'm absolutely exhausted and I want to make some more hats tomorrow. Listen, you can help me if you like, it's quite fun, I'm getting better, I can do patterns and bobbles and all sorts of things now.'
Harry looked into her face, which was shining with glee, and tried to look as though he was vaguely tempted by this offer.
'Er... no, I don't think I will, thanks', he said. 'Er- not tomorrow. I've got loads of homework to do...'
And he traipsed off to the boys' stairs, leaving her looking slightly disappointed.

This has nothing to do with tricking Hermione about SPEW or making her think he’s supportive of it. If he REALLY wanted to do that he should've said yes. Harry’s sensitive enough not to laugh in her face and say ‘HA, you actually think I’d want to knit elf hats?! That sounds like the most boring/uninteresting thing on earth!!’ He tries to look tempted by the offer after he notices Hermione’s expression because he can tell that she’s really excited about it and simply doesn’t want to make her feel bad. And I don’t think there are any false expectations on Hermione’s part, because by now I think Hermione knows that Harry isn’t exactly thrilled about SPEW, she just asked because she wants to spend time with him (IMO). She’s not expecting Harry to jump up and say “YES let’s go knit those hats and free those elves right now!!!”

'All those poor elves I haven't set free yet, having to stay here over Christmas because there aren't enough hats!'
Harry, who had not had the heart to tell her that Dobby was taking everything she made, bent lower over his History of Magic essay.

Here I do think that while his intentions were good, Harry should have told Hermione that Dobby was taking the hats, it probably would have spared her a lot of time. So perhaps you can call this a “little white lie”…(except that he didn’t lie, he simply didn’t say the truth ;) or anything for that matter).

I just felt that what you said unfairly makes it seem like Harry’s been this horrible liar to Hermione, when that’s simply not true. He’s not trying to trick her, he’s given her signs of disinterest before and this can’t be compared to Ron and used in a shippy debate because he and Ron simply have different ways of responding to things. When it comes to SPEW, Harry is quieter.

[MoodyMania]

Everyone in this thread can pretty much agree that Hermione is freakin awesome. (Maybe that's just me) Who wouldn't want to be her friend...and maybe more. So, I can't help but think of Ron as disappointed, no matter how mature he becomes, if he loses Hermione to his best friend.
I know that he wants Harry to be happy...but, c'mon, it would be tough.

I guess this idea of a love triangle kinda irks me. I don't see it fitting into my HP world.
I think that a relationship between Ron and Hermione would affect Harry as well. In my opinion he would feel left out and try to withdraw from them. I say try to because I don't see Hermione allowing this. Which would probably set Ron off because she was paying so much attention to Harry.

So it appears either ship could become a love triangle. Yet I don't see you saying R/Hr shouldn't happen because of it.

[green_ginevra]

So it appears either ship could become a love triangle. Yet I don't see you saying R/Hr shouldn't happen because of it.
all too true, MoodyMania. what's with the love triangles?! good gosh!

[FoxyDoxy]

I also don't think its that simple. Hermione can suss other people's feelings out sure, we've seen that, but i also get the feeling she is quite insecure - her biggest fear is failure.
How would she be failing- ron isn't going to turn her down is he?

She's swallowed her pride before. Hermione does teeter on the edge sometimes emotionally but she does take action when action is needed- even if she's afraid of what will happen as a result. even though it ment lossing her best friends she went to McGonnagall in PoA about the broom.

There were many times in GoF and OotP when Ron was low and needed comforting. Something needed to be done then and if she had feelings for him then I'm sure that at the very least she'd have been a little more supportive- but she wasn't. Ron nearly lost his dad in OotP his family had been upset by Percy leavin (and I don't care what anyone says when your big brother deserts you-git or not- it bloody hurts) On top of that his best friends in danger, he's trying to prove himself constantly. Does Hermione comfort him? (and don't say we might not have seen it- if it was there J.K would have written it)
It seems to me that if someone that you like is suffering so much a person like Hermione would swallow her pride, it's not like she's afraid he'd reject her.

Just out of curiosity why do Herons think that it's taken so long?

[LordIluvatar]

Great post FoxyDoxy :clap: I agree with all ur comments on Whats Hold h/hr or r/hr back :p

I agree with the people who say Ron would be hurt if Hermione ended up with Harry. But Harry already lost so much i just dont see him losing Hermione. She shows no feelings torwards Ron that our clear an cant be debated.

Just a random thought here...i started reading the books again cause i was bored...And i just finished the first book an let me ask this. After the first book if you had to pick who would get together who would you pick? I think its easily Harry an Hermione, just from the conversation between the 2 before he goes to fight Lv.

[C8H10N4O2]

I really, after reading OotP I think that H/C is well and truely over.
But that's one step.
I don't think that we have to read too carefully to see that Hermione and Harry care deeply for eachother, and eachother's safety.
I believe Harry cares greatly for Hermione and Ginny, and may develop the same care for Luna (after their little conversation the last night of school). But I think his burden -- i.e. the prophecy -- will prevent him from thinking in terms of a relationship for awhile -- maybe beyond books 6 and 7. I've just finished Ootp again, and he is really hurting; but not in a way that would be conducive to falling into a relationship via transference. He wants to be alone when he is with people, but with people when he is alone. He empathized with Luna for having all her posessions stolen, and maybe he will find someone to commiserate with on that kind of level; someone whose troubles will help him take his mind off of his own, but would lead only to a deep friendship.

I was all for Harry and ??????? before rereading OotP, but now I am wondering if he will have the time or mindset to bother until the Second War is over.

[FoxyDoxy]

Thanks
From the firs t book yes! I've always felt that it would be H/Hr but I think that the first three were the foundation as they don't get hormonal until 4.
However the thing that struck me most in Ps was that Harry, despite disliking Hermione seemed to feel more guilty when RON insulted her. Also he was the first to think of her when she was absent and again when the troll was around. Ron seemed hesitant to go and find her.
I know it can't be seen as shippy as they were young but it was just an early vibe that I got that has carried through and expanded up to OotP

[LordIluvatar]

Thanks
From the firs t book yes! I've always felt that it would be H/Hr but I think that the first three were the foundation as they don't get hormonal until 4.
However the thing that struck me most in Ps was that Harry, despite disliking Hermione seemed to feel more guilty when RON insulted her. Also he was the first to think of her when she was absent and again when the troll was around. Ron seemed hesitant to go and find her.
I know it can't be seen as shippy as they were young but it was just an early vibe that I got that has carried through and expanded up to OotP

Agreed we cant really yous it as evidence but from the moment i finished ps i alawys thought Harry an Hermione would end up together. And from reading all the books i just beleived more. But i must say after reading GOF i was losing faith harry an Hermione would get togehter but with ootp i beleive they will :p Cause the first 3 books were definitly more Harry/Hermione then Ron/Hermione i think even the herons half to agree with that :p

[rjade829]

After the first book if you had to pick who would get together who would you pick? I think its easily Harry an Hermione, just from the conversation between the 2 before he goes to fight Lv.

I would too.
You mean from the quote in my sig? :agree:

[wannabeweasley]

I think that a relationship between Ron and Hermione would affect Harry as well. In my opinion he would feel left out and try to withdraw from them. I say try to because I don't see Hermione allowing this. Which would probably set Ron off because she was paying so much attention to Harry.

So it appears either ship could become a love triangle. Yet I don't see you saying R/Hr shouldn't happen because of it.
I guess you're right. Although, this second triangle that you refer to wouldn't be the traditionally overdone type. You know...when two men love one woman. That's a little too overdone for me.

If Hermione struggles between making her relationship with Ron balance between her helping Harry fight Voldie, it just seems less like a triangle. Also, I don't see Ron just abandoning Harry if Ron and Hermy are an item. Ron will still want to spend time with his best friend too. So, hopefully, Ron and Hermy could give Harry the right amount of attention.

If Ron were the odd man out, it would be more caddy. Ron, as we know, has feelings for Hermy, so there would be more heartbreak. I guess that's what I mean by love triangle: She has to choose...she doesn't want to choose, but she does...then the triangle is all messed up... Not really HP style. But who knows...if JK does it, I might just find myself liking the love triangle again because I do love everything she writes.

[LordIluvatar]

I would too.
You mean from the quote in my sig? :agree:

Yea...lol :p

[rjade829]

Yea...lol :p

It's such a nice scene :) Says a lot about both of them. Quite touching too. And probably answers why Hermione's in Gryffindor and not Ravenclaw.

[Rictusempra90]

It's such a nice scene :) Says a lot about both of them. Quite touching too. And probably answers why Hermione's in Gryffindor and not Ravenclaw.
Notice how she says "bravery and friendship" :evil:

[Hope1272]

by MoodyMania
I think that a relationship between Ron and Hermione would affect Harry as well. In my opinion he would feel left out and try to withdraw from them. I say try to because I don't see Hermione allowing this. Which would probably set Ron off because she was paying so much attention to Harry.

So it appears either ship could become a love triangle. Yet I don't see you saying R/Hr shouldn't happen because of it.

I agree. The one thing that bothers me is that for R/Hr to happen at this point, it's as if Hermione will have to be deconstructed. All the building of Hermione and Harry's interaction(and there was a lot in OotP) can't go backwards at this point in the game. Hermione's focus on Harry hasn't decreased, but rather increased. She's taking bigger risks on Harry's behalf. She's not just someone he goes to when he has a logic question or when he needs to know a new spell anymore.

For me, it would be a huge suspension of belief to accept that Hermione would just go merrily to Hogsmeade with Ron and snog. Which brings me to another point. How will Hermione react to hearing the Prophecy? I'm thinking not well. This is something that Dumbledore can't get Harry out of nor can her books or logic. For someone who studies months in advance for tests, for someone who hates employing any plan that isn't thoroughly examined and for something that could result in Harry dying, this will be hell for Hermione. How or why in the world would we see her focus on Harry diminish as it will have to in order to accomodate her new relationship with Ron? Or worse, why or how could we watch Ron just accept that his girlfriend is constantly thinking of his best friend? It doesn't matter if Ron is worried about Harry too, in a romantic relationship, there has to be a time and place where the lovers have to come first to each other. The way JKR has set up Hermione and her devotion to Harry, R/Hr just doesn't look possible. Unless JKR decides to not do anything until the Epilogue of Book 7. But the feelings boiling under the surface for the Trio will need to be met before then.

Parting thought. Some people don't see the need or possibility for a triangle for fear that a soap opera like situation would take over the main story. I can think of a reason why the triangle could and probably will occur: a story called A Tale of Two Cities. Sydney loves Lucie who loves Darnay. Sydney, a man who doesn't think much of his life or feel that he is worthy, professes his love to Lucie. But Lucie goes on to marry Darnay, the archtypal hero, instead. Some people wonder why Sydney has fall in love with Lucie at all, if he is not to find love with her and be heartbroken. But in the end, it's for that very reason that Sydney sacrafices himself and becomes the hero he never thought he would be. The love triangle doesn't take over the story of A Tale of Two Cities, but the love and redemption stemming from the triangle become the message of the book.

That's basically how I see a R/H/H, if Ron doesn't wise up and notice a certain Miss Lovegood. It also ties back into a theme most heavily stressed by some of my shipmates: What is right versus what is easy. There is enough love between the Trio to make this choice a lot more difficult than the average soap opera and if treated in the same manner as A Tale of Two Cities, would tie into the already existing themes of love, honor, and sacrifice in HP.

[EricaM]

If Ron were the odd man out, it would be more caddy. Ron, as we know, has feelings for Hermy, so there would be more heartbreak. I guess that's what I mean by love triangle: She has to choose...she doesn't want to choose, but she does...then the triangle is all messed up... Not really HP style. But who knows...if JK does it, I might just find myself liking the love triangle again because I do love everything she writes.

I don't understand this logic. Whether it's Harry or Ron that's the odd man out, they're going to be heartbroken since, by definition, they would have 'lost' thier love (Hermione) to the other. I do believe in the possiblity of a triangle in the future of the trio, though it's debatable (obviously) who'll be the one left out. Harry would have to be strongly impacted by that plot thread, either by having strong negative reaction to R/Hr romance or having to endure Ron's strong negative reaction to an H/Hr romance, anything else would be insipid.

Erica

[Heatherhobbit]

This is from the last thread. I would just like to ask those people that think Ron has matured and is continuing to mature why he would feel so bad if his 2 best friends liked each other? I mean if he knows Hermione doesn’t like him that way and he has matured I’m sure he would see her's and Harry’s happiness as being important. And if this is the case them he wouldn’t be too upset.

However, if he hasn’t matured yet and still feels that getting what he wants is the most important thing to him then I could see him as upset with the above situation should it occur. Agree, disagree? And why?
I agree that if Harry and Hermione get together, Ron will want them to be happy. But it will destroy the trio. Why? Because it will crush him. Why? Because I believe that he is in love with her. The whole Krum storyline is the canon that supports my belief. If that isn't enough look at his reaction to her crush on Lockhart, the brief moment he thought she liked Cedric because he's handsome, and the time he thought Hermione knew how Harry kissed. He has a reaction to even the smallest inkling that Hermione may be interested in a guy.

I think Ron will continue to mature, but no matter how mature and open minded he is, he is still a human being. And human beings all experience jealousy. It's not a desirable trait, and we're not always at our best when we're jealous. But any human being put in that situation would feel jealous. It's a normal reaction to be jealous when you see the object of your affection with your best friend. I don't think he would totally turn his back on Harry and Hermione because he is fiercely loyal. But it will be the end of their friendship. It would be painful to continue to be with them day in and day out knowing that they are a couple. The pain would push him away from them.

[DragonChamber7]

I agree that if Harry and Hermione get together, Ron will want them to be happy. But it will destroy the trio. Why? Because it will crush him. Why? Because I believe that he is in love with her. The whole Krum storyline is the canon that supports my belief. If that isn't enough look at his reaction to her crush on Lockhart, the brief moment he thought she liked Cedric because he's handsome, and the time he thought Hermione knew how Harry kissed. He has a reaction to even the smallest inkling that Hermione may be interested in a guy.

I think Ron will continue to mature, but no matter how mature and open minded he is, he is still a human being. And human beings all experience jealousy. It's not a desirable trait, and we're not always at our best when we're jealous. But any human being put in that situation would feel jealous. It's a normal reaction to be jealous when you see the object of your affection with your best friend. I don't think he would totally turn his back on Harry and Hermione because he is fiercely loyal. But it will be the end of their friendship. It would be painful to continue to be with them day in and day out knowing that they are a couple. The pain would push him away from them.


That makes loads of sense, I think if Hermione and Ron got together it would have a bit of an effect on the trio...but nothing too serious to actually demolish their friendship.

[Asara]

I agree with C8H10N4O2. Harry is really emotional and uptight at the moment, which is perfectly reasonable given the circumstances, but I think we'll see him drawing away from people rather than getting closer. IMO if he is going to end up with Hermione, or anyone else, it won't happen till after Voldie's gone.

Harry is going to be thinking now that anyone who is close to him will be in danger, if he does love Hermione this would make it all the more likely that he would draw away from her as he wouldn't want her hurt.

Basically, I don't think Harry needs a relationship right now. I think that Harry drawing away will give R/Hr more of a chance but even if I wasn't a Heron shipper I don't think Harry would risk getting closer to someone until the threat from Voldemort is gone.

[rjade829]

I agree. The one thing that bothers me is that for R/Hr to happen at this point, it's as if Hermione will have to be deconstructed. All the building of Hermione and Harry's interaction(and there was a lot in OotP) can't go backwards at this point in the game. Hermione's focus on Harry hasn't decreased, but rather increased. She's taking bigger risks on Harry's behalf. She's not just someone he goes to when he has a logic question or when he needs to know a new spell anymore.

For me, it would be a huge suspension of belief to accept that Hermione would just go merrily to Hogsmeade with Ron and snog. Which brings me to another point. How will Hermione react to hearing the Prophecy? I'm thinking not well. This is something that Dumbledore can't get Harry out of nor can her books or logic. For someone who studies months in advance for tests, for someone who hates employing any plan that isn't thoroughly examined and for something that could result in Harry dying, this will be hell for Hermione. How or why in the world would we see her focus on Harry diminish as it will have to in order to accomodate her new relationship with Ron? Or worse, why or how could we watch Ron just accept that his girlfriend is constantly thinking of his best friend? It doesn't matter if Ron is worried about Harry too, in a romantic relationship, there has to be a time and place where the lovers have to come first to each other. The way JKR has set up Hermione and her devotion to Harry, R/Hr just doesn't look possible. Unless JKR decides to not do anything until the Epilogue of Book 7. But the feelings boiling under the surface for the Trio will need to be met before then.

Parting thought. Some people don't see the need or possibility for a triangle for fear that a soap opera like situation would take over the main story. I can think of a reason why the triangle could and probably will occur: a story called A Tale of Two Cities. Sydney loves Lucie who loves Darnay. Sydney, a man who doesn't think much of his life or feel that he is worthy, professes his love to Lucie. But Lucie goes on to marry Darnay, the archtypal hero, instead. Some people wonder why Sydney has fall in love with Lucie at all, if he is not to find love with her and be heartbroken. But in the end, it's for that very reason that Sydney sacrafices himself and becomes the hero he never thought he would be. The love triangle doesn't take over the story of A Tale of Two Cities, but the love and redemption stemming from the triangle become the message of the book.

That's basically how I see a R/H/H, if Ron doesn't wise up and notice a certain Miss Lovegood. It also ties back into a theme most heavily stressed by some of my shipmates: What is right versus what is easy. There is enough love between the Trio to make this choice a lot more difficult than the average soap opera and if treated in the same manner as A Tale of Two Cities, would tie into the already existing themes of love, honor, and sacrifice in HP.

Ooh, good post! :tu: Very good...I agree with everything you said about the love triangle. I also agree about the Prophecy, I myself am very curious to see how Hermione will take that news.

[Heatherhobbit]

That makes loads of sense, I think if Hermione and Ron got together it would have a bit of an effect on the trio...but nothing too serious to actually demolish their friendship.
Thank you. It will have an effect, but it won't destroy it. The effect may not even be negative if Harry has his own love interest. Harry has no feelings for Hermione at this point, so he wouldn't be jealous if they got together. And they already spend time together without Harry. It's not like they are going to go off and snog when Harry needs them most. Harry's still going to be important to them, but they will continue to spend time together when Harry is off doing his own thing. The only thing that will change is the dynamic between Ron and Hermione. Harry may even be relieved that they resolve their tension and stop bickering so much!

... about the Prophecy, I myself am very curious to see how Hermione will take that news.
She won't take it well. She loves him (as a brother/friend), why wouldn't she take it badly? Guess who else will take it badly? Ron, Ginny, Fred, George, and any other loved one that Harry tells.

[I <3 Ron]

I agree with C8H10N4O2. Harry is really emotional and uptight at the moment, which is perfectly reasonable given the circumstances, but I think we'll see him drawing away from people rather than getting closer. IMO if he is going to end up with Hermione, or anyone else, it won't happen till after Voldie's gone.

I have to disagree with you on this because if it were true, it would answer the burning question: Who will die, Harry or Voldemort?

JKR told us that Harry would have more romance to come, and we don't know if Harry will even survive to have romance after Voldemort.

So I think we can definitely say it will happen before Voldemort is possibly gone.

[oliveros]

I would too.
You mean from the quote in my sig? :agree:

Yes, it was a very nice scene. Id like to know what Hermione wanted to say after she said "and-" ;) I have a feeling it wouldnt be "friendship, bravery, and more friendship" :rotfl:

[IceKat55]

Here I do think that while his intentions were good, Harry should have told Hermione that Dobby was taking the hats, it probably would have spared her a lot of time. So perhaps you can call this a “little white lie”…(except that he didn’t lie, he simply didn’t say the truth ;) or anything for that matter).

I just felt that what you said unfairly makes it seem like Harry’s been this horrible liar to Hermione, when that’s simply not true. He’s not trying to trick her, he’s given her signs of disinterest before and this can’t be compared to Ron and used in a shippy debate because he and Ron simply have different ways of responding to things. When it comes to SPEW, Harry is quieter.
Excellent post, thank you. I didn't intend to come across that way, saying "Harry's lying to her, saying he supports SPEW", that's not what I meant...sorry, I think I worded it wrong. :) I was trying to remember their conversation just before she asked him to knit with her, she says something to the effect of "the hats are disappearing like mad" and rather than tell her the truth about the hats, Harry just says "great", rather vaguely. But, had it been Ron, he likely would have said something unsupportive to her, maybe even told her what's really going on with the hats...

My point was, since Harry had said "great", that may have said to Hermione "hey, Harry thinks it's an okay idea, maybe I should recruit him to help more!" and that's why she asked him to knit with her.

I mean, honestly...if Hermione really fancied Harry, why on earth would she want to knit with him? There's got to be better ways of spending time with a boy! :lol:

[rjade829]

She won't take it well. She loves him (as a brother/friend), why wouldn't she take it badly? Guess who else will take it badly? Ron, Ginny, Fred, George, and any other loved one that Harry tells.

Well, of course no one's going to take it well. I never said they would. They're not going to have a party, lol. But I'm especially curious to see Hermione's reaction because I think that if knowing that Harry could very well die soon doesn't trigger the release of any particularly *interesting* emotions or responses...I don't know what would. I'm curious to see everyone else's reaction too, but Hermione's especially for that reason.
I do wonder who he's going to tell. JKR said his 'nearest and dearest'. I assume that includes Ron and Hermione, but I dunno who else.

Id like to know what Hermione wanted to say after she said "and-" ;) I have a feeling it wouldnt be "friendship, bravery, and more friendship" :rotfl:

:rotfl: :rotfl:

[IceKat55]

Just out of curiosity why do Herons think that it's taken so long?
Classic writing, "leave 'em wanting more". (For lack of a better example), how many people would have watched Dawson's Creek if Joey & Dawson had ended up together at the end of the first season and stayed together?

We've got two books to go, and they're 16 now...I think it's about to get veeeeery interesting... ;)

[Hope1272]

by Icekat55
I mean, honestly...if Hermione really fancied Harry, why on earth would she want to knit with him? There's got to be better ways of spending time with a boy!

For the same reason we women drag our guys to antique stores, chick flicks, and looking at samples for home decorating.....Because it's fun to us, so it should be fun for them, :rotfl:


ETA:
Woohoo, I'm second year!

[Siriusly Loony]

Yes, Harry is very busy at the present moment, but we have recent interviews with JKR saying that he will have another relationship (or continue the cho thing--but I do doubt that) but the thing that is hard to pick out is who it would be with. We knew very well since book 3 that he liked Cho, and we have no evidence of him feeling the same attraction towards any other girl. Therefore, this next one may happen very suddenly (with a new character?) or near the end of the next book. This (what I think to be logical thinking) would point toward a stronger chance of a R/Hr relationship.

Ginny is an interesting point. She is now dating Dean, who shares his dorm with her brother (who is so protective...aww!) and Harry. (who I do believe could develop an attraction to her)

Also, the Luna factor. Ron is far to immature to accept her, but Harry seems to share a strange link with her. I don't see her so much as a girlfriend for Harry, but another source of friendship. Ron and Hermione don't understand everything that Harry sees and does, but Luna accepts facts that she is given easily and would believe Harry and in many cases, relate to him.

We also know that Krum will come back into the picture of the stories, although not until later on. I do believe that Hermione will be responsible for his re-introduction into the books, but not as his girlfriend. Or he might just turn out to be a dark wizard who is now joining Voldemort's army, seeing as he attended Durmstrang.

Did I miss any big points? What do you think?

[IceKat55]

I don't understand this logic. Whether it's Harry or Ron that's the odd man out, they're going to be heartbroken since, by definition, they would have 'lost' thier love (Hermione) to the other.
This is only assuming that they are both in love with Hermione. So far, I see no evidence that Harry is. Ron...oh yeah...I see it. :)

I do believe in the possiblity of a triangle in the future of the trio, though it's debatable (obviously) who'll be the one left out. Harry would have to be strongly impacted by that plot thread, either by having strong negative reaction to R/Hr romance or having to endure Ron's strong negative reaction to an H/Hr romance, anything else would be insipid.
Ugh...I hope, with all my might, that Rowling doesn't do that. Honestly...it's been done. And with the War starting, Harry having to deal with the loss of Sirius, the prophecy, the coming fight, focusing more on becoming a stronger wizard in order to fight Voldemort & save the Universe...does he really have time to engage in a love triangle with Ron and Hermione? I mean, knowing that Ron fancies her, and knowing that putting a move on Hermione could possibly drive a wedge between himself and Ron? Ugh...no thank you, I'm 100% not interested in reading that. :p

[rjade829]

We also know that Krum will come back into the picture of the stories, although not until later on. I do believe that Hermione will be responsible for his re-introduction into the books, but not as his girlfriend. Or he might just turn out to be a dark wizard who is now joining Voldemort's army, seeing as he attended Durmstrang.

Did I miss any big points? What do you think?

Well, obviously, Krum's going to be mentioned in the epilogue because he'll be a guest at Harry and Hermione's wedding, and he's going to give a speech about how he was the one responsible for making them realize their feelings for each other...:rotfl: :rotfl: I couldn't resist.

But seriously...I hope he doesn't join Voldemort's side :( I really like Krum.

[IceKat55]

For the same reason we women drag our guys to antique stores, chick flicks, and looking at samples for home decorating.....Because it's fun to us, so it should be fun for them, :rotfl:
:lol: I've never been one of those kinda girls...I'll go to sporting events with my fella all day long (and love 'em!!), but dragging him off to shop for shoes? No way...because I know he hates it, and therein would make me miserable. Can't have that!! ;)

ETA:
Woohoo, I'm second year!
:clap:

[oliveros]

Ugh...I hope, with all my might, that Rowling doesn't do that. Honestly...it's been done. And with the War starting, Harry having to deal with the loss of Sirius, the prophecy, the coming fight, focusing more on becoming a stronger wizard in order to fight Voldemort & save the Universe...does he really have time to engage in a love triangle with Ron and Hermione? I mean, knowing that Ron fancies her, and knowing that putting a move on Hermione could possibly drive a wedge between himself and Ron? Ugh...no thank you, I'm 100% not interested in reading that. :p

But we spend most of the books reading about Harrys life at school, which in OotP involved Cho, dealing with Umbridge, the DA and all that stuff. Im sure that if JKR wanted to write a love triangle, shed have enough time to do it in a single book (she seems to have dealt with Ginnys four year crush in a couple of pages :evil: )

[Hope1272]

by IceKat55
I've never been one of those kinda girls...I'll go to sporting events with my fella all day long (and love 'em!!), but dragging him off to shop for shoes? No way...because I know he hates it, and therein would make me miserable. Can't have that!!

I know the feeling. There's nothing like a huge side of Whine to go with an outing, :lol:

I think for Hermione it's a case of her wanting to share this important part of herself with Harry. SPEW and her knitting, however wrong her actions may be right now, is something that belongs to Hermione. I liken it to a girl asking a guy to a poetry reading because she loves poetry and thinks they can bond over this thing she enjoys.

[Mami]

:lol: I've never been one of those kinda girls...I'll go to sporting events with my fella all day long (and love 'em!!), but dragging him off to shop for shoes? No way...because I know he hates it, and therein would make me miserable. Can't have that!! ;)

:clap:

Well, obviously Hermione's attempt to spend time with Harry was very lame, but what else could she have done? She also asked him to help her study for the OWL's and it didn't go that well.....But she is trying, she is trying ;)

[IceKat55]

But we spend most of the books reading about Harrys life at school, which in OotP involved Cho, dealing with Umbridge, the DA and all that stuff. Im sure that if JKR wanted to write a love triangle, shed have enough time to do it in a single book (she seems to have dealt with Ginnys four year crush in a couple of pages :evil: )
Yes, but Ginny's been there through all 5 books, we just don't see her as prominently, because she's not part of the Trio. It probably took her longer than a couple of pages to get over her crush, we just didn't see it! ;)

Like I said in V.29, Rowling describes the Trio as 'stronger together'. A wedge driven between Ron and Harry (which, IMO, H/Hr would do) would make the Trio weaker. With Voldemort freshly revealed, the Wizarding World preparing for the onslaught, the burden of the prophecy and knowing that he's probably either killer or killee, and the loss of Sirius, the last thing Harry needs is to lose one of his best friends. I honestly believe that Ron fancies Hermione enough to where he would be devestated over H/Hr hooking up. Heartbroken and jealous, he'd be furious with them, and the Trio would be broken.

If Harry does not fancy Hermione in a romantic way (and I've seen no real evidence that he does), then R/Hr hooking up would not alienate him, nor really bother him at all. He'd probably be the first to say to both of them "It's about time!" And I don't see the Trio changing much, if it is R/Hr that hook up. They would strengthen each other, thereby reinforcing the strength they give to Harry.

[sone]

And with the War starting, Harry having to deal with the loss of Sirius, the prophecy, the coming fight, focusing more on becoming a stronger wizard in order to fight Voldemort & save the Universe...does he really have time to engage in a love triangle with Ron and Hermione? Yep. Harry has no idea that he only has two years left before the the final upcoming battle with Voldemort. So while he will be busy and really be progressing as a wizard now, he is still going to be at school and he is still going to be sixteen just like most of his fellow students in his year are. As Rowling said herself, what's life without a little romance?

[oliveros]

Yes, but Ginny's been there through all 5 books, we just don't see her as prominently, because she's not part of the Trio. It probably took her longer than a couple of pages to get over her crush, we just didn't see it! ;)

Like I said in V.29, Rowling describes the Trio as 'stronger together'. A wedge driven between Ron and Harry (which, IMO, H/Hr would do) would make the Trio weaker. With Voldemort freshly revealed, the Wizarding World preparing for the onslaught, the burden of the prophecy and knowing that he's probably either killer or killee, and the loss of Sirius, the last thing Harry needs is to lose one of his best friends. I honestly believe that Ron fancies Hermione enough to where he would be devestated over H/Hr hooking up. Heartbroken and jealous, he'd be furious with them, and the Trio would be broken.

If Harry does not fancy Hermione in a romantic way (and I've seen no real evidence that he does), then R/Hr hooking up would not alienate him, nor really bother him at all. He'd probably be the first to say to both of them "It's about time!" And I don't see the Trio changing much, if it is R/Hr that hook up. They would strengthen each other, thereby reinforcing the strength they give to Harry.

Thats all possibly true, but if Ron gets mad, steps away from the trio and grows up (something he desperately needs to do) gets over his crush and then comes back, then the trio would be stronger than ever. IMO, R/Hr would do nothing to make the trio stronger, because even though they wouldnt mean it, they'd have to spend more time without Harry. I dont think you should eliminate H/Hr because of Ron, JKR has shown that she doesnt hesitate in making a loved character suffer. If Harry can get over Cho and the loss of Sirius, it wont be so impossible for Ron to get over Hermione

ETA:

Im not so sure that Ron will even be alive when the books are over, so that might throw in a big change on shipping

[IceKat55]

Yep. Harry has no idea that he only has two years left before the the final upcoming battle with Voldemort. So while he will be busy and really be progressing as a wizard now, he is still going to be at school and he is still going to be sixteen just like most of his fellow students in his year are. As Rowling said herself, what's life without a little romance?
I don't begrudge Harry a little romance, not at all. Just not with his best mate's "girl", which is how I think Harry would view Hermione.

I mean, if Harry were to wake up one morning and go "hmmm, you know, all of a sudden, I kinda fancy Hermione!", don't you think his next thought would scream "but that'd be betraying Ron!!"

Harry 'gets the point'. He looks at Hermione speaking to Ron and is 'irresistably reminded' of Molly appealing to her husband. On separate occasions, Rowling has Harry just lump Hermione in as one of "the Weasleys". I believe that Harry knows, on some level conscious or unconscious, that Ron fancies Hermione. I can't imagine that he'd do that to Ron, no matter what he feels for Hermione. Which, to date, seems to me nothing but admiration, pride, and a very strong bond of friendship.

Thats all possibly true, but if Ron gets mad, steps away from the trio and grows up (something he desperately needs to do) gets over his crush and then comes back, then the trio would be stronger than ever. IMO, R/Hr would do nothing to make the trio stronger, because even though they wouldnt mean it, they'd have to spend more time without Harry. I dont think you should eliminate H/Hr because of Ron, JKR has shown that she doesnt hesitate in making a loved character suffer. If Harry can get over Cho and the loss of Sirius, it wont be so impossible for Ron to get over Hermione
Possibly, but they already spend a lot of time away from Harry. Prefect duties. And even if they do hook up, why would that have to draw them away from Harry even more? What are they going to do, spend all their time snogging in broom closets? ;)

ETA:

Im not so sure that Ron will even be alive when the books are over, so that might throw in a big change on shipping
And again, I say...

*sticks fingers in ears* NOT LISTENING, NOT LISTENING, LALALALALALALALALALALALA!!! :p

[rjade829]

Like I said in V.29, Rowling describes the Trio as 'stronger together'. A wedge driven between Ron and Harry (which, IMO, H/Hr would do) would make the Trio weaker.

I suppose that an effective way to make them realize how much stronger they would be together would be to divide them first and let them see for themselves.

If there was to be conflict between the three of them which they could gather the strength to overcome, then that, more than anything, would show how strong they really are together. Rather than just taking for granted that "well they're the trio, they're strongest together," it'd be nice if that was really proven to us.

[I <3 Ron]

Thats all possibly true, but if Ron gets mad, steps away from the trio and grows up (something he desperately needs to do) gets over his crush and then comes back, then the trio would be stronger than ever. IMO, R/Hr would do nothing to make the trio stronger, because even though they wouldnt mean it, they'd have to spend more time without Harry. I dont think you should eliminate H/Hr because of Ron, JKR has shown that she doesnt hesitate in making a loved character suffer. If Harry can get over Cho and the loss of Sirius, it wont be so impossible for Ron to get over Hermione
But we know that Ron is not as strong as Harry. We know that Ron loves Hermione in more than one way. They don't have a normal friendship because of their [his] feelings, and if those feelings were to just dissapear (which would take a very long time, believe me, I've gone through it), he'd have to rebuild it. The reason I don't think he has a simple crush on Hermione is because he hasn't given up on it yet, even though he's matured. It's deeper than that, and will take longer to heal.

[IceKat55]

I suppose that an effective way to make them realize how much stronger they would be together would be to divide them first and let them see for themselves.

If there was to be conflict between the three of them which they could gather the strength to overcome, then that, more than anything, would show how strong they really are together. Rather than just taking for granted that "well they're the trio, they're strongest together," it'd be nice if that was really proven to us.
That's been done. Harry & Ron were without Hermione in the Chamber (even though she did help) and had to fight it out on their own. They were not speaking to Hermione over the Firebolt, and then Harry & Ron had their spat in GoF - - and he was miserable without speaking to Ron. Ron & Hermione had their massive blow-up over Crookshanks "eating" Scabbers. We already know how it would be to divide them with conflict. Makes them weaker. And at this particular point in the books, with that Dark Lord dude back, bigger & badder than ever, this just doesn't seem the time to be throwing wrenches into Harry's support staff. ;)

[oliveros]

Possibly, but they already spend a lot of time away from Harry. Prefect duties. And even if they do hook up, why would that have to draw them away from Harry even more? What are they going to do, spend all their time snogging in broom closets? ;)

Despite prefect duties, i think that Hermione spent more time alone with Harry in OotP and GoF than in the other books. I dont think that Ron will be prefect again, from what we saw he wasnt exactly very good, and i have a feeling that DD's legilimens abilities let him see that Harry really wanted to be prefect, and something like that could help him take his mind off sirius in HBP. So, if they hook up, they probably wont spend so much time together, couples need to be alone sometimes.



*sticks fingers in ears* NOT LISTENING, NOT LISTENING, LALALALALALALALALALALALA!!! :p

:lol: you'd better get used to the idea that its possible, because i havent really seen Rons purpouse in the story, and he hasnt been very useful in the books, so if anyone in the trio dies, my money is on Ron.

But we know that Ron is not as strong as Harry. We know that Ron loves Hermione in more than one way. They don't have a normal friendship because of their [his] feelings, and if those feelings were to just dissapear (which would take a very long time, believe me, I've gone through it), he'd have to rebuild it. The reason I don't think he has a simple crush on Hermione is because he hasn't given up on it yet, even though he's matured. It's deeper than that, and will take longer to heal.

I, on the other hand, dont believe that ron is truly in love with Hermione. If he truly loved her he would at least try to understand her, and wouldnt show all that jealousy over nothing. I think that what Ron has is no different from a childish crush, at best, and he could get over it with as much difficulty as Harry with Cho.

[IceKat55]

Despite prefect duties, i think that Hermione spent more time alone with Harry in OotP and GoF than in the other books. I dont think that Ron will be prefect again, from what we saw he wasnt exactly very good, and i have a feeling that DD's legilimens abilities let him see that Harry really wanted to be prefect, and something like that could help him take his mind off sirius in HBP. So, if they hook up, they probably wont spend so much time together, couples need to be alone sometimes.
You think DD will take it away from Ron and give it to Harry, without giving Ron a sit-down "shape up or ship out" talk, or a 2nd chance? Hmmm...I don't see that happening. And I still agree w/Dumbledore, that Harry has enough on his plate. But, totally off-topic, nevermind... ;)

:lol: you'd better get used to the idea that its possible, because i havent really seen Rons purpouse in the story, and he hasnt been very useful in the books, so if anyone in the trio dies, my money is on Ron.
Shush! You - just - SHUSH!!!! :p

[sone]

I don't begrudge Harry a little romance, not at all. Just not with his best mate's "girl", which is how I think Harry would view Hermione. Hermione is not anyone's "girl" at the moment. She does not belong to Ron or Harry or anyone else. She will choose, just as much as Harry and Ron will. Ron's approval is not needed or required. He looks at Hermione speaking to Ron and is "irresistably reminded" of Molly appealing to her husband but that does not mean they are in love with each other just because Molly is married to her husband. Afterall, he has been turning down Hermione's "advances" left and right without wondering why is she asking in the first place. You may believe that Harry knows, on some level conscious or unconscious, that Ron fancies Hermione but I feel so does he. What he does not know on any level is that Hermione may possibly fancy Harry. It may not depend on who fancies Hermione but who she fancies. I imagine he would "do that" to Ron. Ron has made some very big mistakes regarding romance in the past, so can Harry. You cannot imagine Harry doing all this stuff to Ron, but no one seems to mind anyone else doing anything to Harry.

I, on the other hand, dont believe that ron is truly in love with Hermione. If he truly loved her he would at least try to understand her, and wouldnt show all that jealousy over nothing. I agree.

[oliveros]

Shush! You - just - SHUSH!!!! :p


I know theres another thread on this, but we should really discuss the possible deaths and how it affects shipping. For example, if Harry died, i think it would be R/Hr, N/G and Luna?im not sure. If Ron died, id say its H/Hr, N/G and again im not sure about luna. If Hermione died (God forbid!!!!!!) it would be H/G R/L and Neville/someone else. Of course, if no one died, i think its gonna be H/Hr and R/L. Of all these situations, i think that Ron dying is the most probable. He hasnt proven to be of any big use in the fight against Voldemort, so a sacrifice (saving Harry) would make him useful (in a sad, cruel way)

[Heatherhobbit]

For the same reason we women drag our guys to antique stores, chick flicks, and looking at samples for home decorating.....Because it's fun to us, so it should be fun for them, :rotfl:






:rotfl: And Hope accused me of generalizing! :p Not all women are like that! :evil: Sorry, couldn't resist! You know I'm joking!

I'm not that kind of girl. I'd rather take my boyfriend to a Steelers game or the local pool hall. I wouldn't take my boyfriend near an antique store (he'd break something), he makes loud tutting noises at chick flicks during the best parts, and home decorating, not in a million years!!!!

Anyway, back on topic; if Hermione is really in love with Harry and was using the knitting as a way to get alone time, she's not as clever as I thought she was. What was she thinking?

And here's some advice to all you girls out there. If you like a boy, never, never, never, never invite him to knit with you. Really bad idea!

[Hope1272]

by IceKat55
That's been done. Harry & Ron were without Hermione in the Chamber (even though she did help) and had to fight it out on their own. They were not speaking to Hermione over the Firebolt, and then Harry & Ron had their spat in GoF - - and he was miserable without speaking to Ron. Ron & Hermione had their massive blow-up over Crookshanks "eating" Scabbers. We already know how it would be to divide them with conflict. Makes them weaker. And at this particular point in the books, with that Dark Lord dude back, bigger & badder than ever, this just doesn't seem the time to be throwing wrenches into Harry's support staff.

Ah, but sometimes there are such things as no win situations. JKR has had heroes die and villians live another day, so I don't think that the no win situation is something she would necessarily shy away from. Sometimes, even when love is involved or especially when love is involved, there is no one solution that will ensure that no one gets hurt.

We've seen Ron have his moments of sacrafice and clarity. I don't think it's impossible for Ron, should H/Hr happen, be angry and heartbroken, but realize that friendship and loyalty are what's important. Despite being a bit attention hungry and dense at times, Ron is inherently a good guy who is capable of seeing past himself when the occassion calls for it. And I also think a certain Miss Lovegood will be a part of that realization, should it happen, as well.

ETA:
Quote by Heatherhobbit
And Hope accused me of generalizing! Not all women are like that! Sorry, couldn't resist! You know I'm joking!

Hee, after ten years of marriage, I've gotten in the very bad habit of explaining such things (to my husband )in general terms when it comes to these things, :lol:

I think it's just a case of Hermione wanting to share something she enjoys just as Harry and Ron share their love of Quidditch. Honestly, do either one of them ever stop and think about what Hermione would like to do or talk about ever once in a while? It never occurs to Harry or Ron that Hermione isn't all that keen on Quidditch. They probably just assume she likes it since she goes with them to the games, buys Harry books on the subject, ect. Hermione seems to want to share something that is something she enjoys with Harry, very possibly to bond with him and share feelings :rotfl: ...couldn't help it, it's a girl thing, :rotfl:

[IceKat55]

It may not depend on who fancies Hermione but who she fancies.
I agree with this. And in my perception, and from the way I read Rowling's clues (both canon, in interviews, and yes, even in film), I see that Hermione fancies Ron "in that way", and is waiting for him to come 'round.

Time will tell! :D

[rjade829]

That's been done. Harry & Ron were without Hermione in the Chamber (even though she did help) and had to fight it out on their own. They were not speaking to Hermione over the Firebolt, and then Harry & Ron had their spat in GoF - - and he was miserable without speaking to Ron. Ron & Hermione had their massive blow-up over Crookshanks "eating" Scabbers. We already know how it would be to divide them with conflict. Makes them weaker. And at this particular point in the books, with that Dark Lord dude back, bigger & badder than ever, this just doesn't seem the time to be throwing wrenches into Harry's support staff. ;)

Although the Chamber thing doesn't really count as conflict, the others are good points I suppose. :tu: They have had conflict. It doesn't mean they won't have more conflict though, and seeing how Ron is, the love conflict would be huge if it happened. The thing is that I see Ron, although he's ultimately a good character, as being written with a jealous/possessive/attention-wanting streak that keeps creeping up in different ways in the story over and over again (Scabbers, jealousy of Harry's fame, Krum, Ginny's love life, suspicions of H/HR, saying he built a broomstick to reach Jupiter, etc). I personally would be very surprised if it doesn't come up again. Ron, though I love him, needs a little growing up to do, and I think that one way (though certainly not the only way) would be to have the H/HR thing happen. That would bring his jealous streak out again and he'd really have to deal with it once and for all, especially if he's going to be useful to Harry in the story. We'll see, we'll see. We're probably ALL wrong. :lol:

[IceKat55]

, if Harry died, i think it would be R/Hr, N/G and Luna?im not sure. If Ron died, id say its H/Hr, N/G and again im not sure about luna. If Hermione died (God forbid!!!!!!) it would be H/G R/L and Neville/someone else. Of course, if no one died, i think its gonna be H/Hr and R/L.
*head explodes*
:p

[scr1967]

From OotP, Hemione giving Harry advice after his date with Cho:

'...And it might have been a good idea to mention how ugly you think I am, too,' Hermione added as an afterthought.

'But I don't think you're ugly,' said Harry, bemused.

Hermione laughed.

'Harry you're worse than Ron… well, no, you're not,' she sighed, as Ron himself came stumping into the Hall splattered with mud and looking grumpy.



I'd like to ask the opinion of the ladies on this board. If you were ever, even remotely interested in a guy, would you ever, in a million years, suggest that he should tell another woman that he thinks you are ugly?

I think not, and that this scene clearly shows where Hermione's heart lies.

She laughs at the fact that Harry doesn't understand women, but sighs because Ron doesn't either.

[IceKat55]

And here's some advice to all you girls out there. If you like a boy, never, never, never, never invite him to knit with you. Really bad idea!
:lol: :lol:

[oliveros]

*head explodes*
:p

:lol: what do you think about that? would you see H/Hr as the strongest ship if Ron died? if not, why would H/G or H/L be any stronger?

[IceKat55]

Ah, but sometimes there are such things as no win situations. JKR has had heroes die and villians live another day, so I don't think that the no win situation is something she would necessarily shy away from. Sometimes, even when love is involved or especially when love is involved, there is no one solution that will ensure that no one gets hurt.
True. And while I do think that Rowling will have the traditional "good triumphs over evil" in the end, the Hero does not necessarily have to get "the girl". Unless the girl happens to be Ginny. :D

[I <3 Ron]

I know theres another thread on this, but we should really discuss the possible deaths and how it affects shipping. For example, if Harry died, i think it would be R/Hr, N/G and Luna?im not sure. If Ron died, id say its H/Hr, N/G and again im not sure about luna. If Hermione died (God forbid!!!!!!) it would be H/G R/L and Neville/someone else. Of course, if no one died, i think its gonna be H/Hr and R/L. Of all these situations, i think that Ron dying is the most probable. He hasnt proven to be of any big use in the fight against Voldemort, so a sacrifice (saving Harry) would make him useful (in a sad, cruel way)
Lol, I'm going to assume you're favorite character is Hermione then?

Also consider both Harry and Ron dying. Hermione will be all alone :upset: .

[Mami]

I don't begrudge Harry a little romance, not at all. Just not with his best mate's "girl", which is how I think Harry would view Hermione.

I mean, if Harry were to wake up one morning and go "hmmm, you know, all of a sudden, I kinda fancy Hermione!", don't you think his next thought would scream "but that'd be betraying Ron!!"



What if it happen very subtly? Ron realizes Hermione doesn't love him, he get over her, then Harry realizing that he feels something for her, and we will get little subtle moment here and there. They don't even have to get together in the books, they'll probably get together after the war. You know, like "officially" together.

[oliveros]

I'd like to ask the opinion of the ladies on this board. If you were ever, even remotely interested in a guy, would you ever, in a million years, suggest that he should tell another woman that he thinks you are ugly?

I think not, and that this scene clearly shows where Hermione's heart lies.

She laughs at the fact that Harry doesn't understand women, but sighs because Ron doesn't either.


Im a guy, but i can tell you that theres a totally different explaination to that. Dont you think its curious that Hermione said that in the first place? why would she? seeing that Harrys relationship with Cho was going terribly she was, IMO, fishing for a compliment and looking if she had any chance with harry. About the sigh, i discussed it with AK in the last thread, i suggest you check it out.

[IceKat55]

We'll see, we'll see. We're probably ALL wrong. :lol:
If that's the case, then I think we need to all get together somewhere & have a drink, when all is said & done!!! Heck, maybe we should do that anyways! :p

[oliveros]

Lol, I'm going to assume you're favorite character is Hermione then?
.

LOL. She is, along with harry (another reason id love to see them together :) )
Also consider both Harry and Ron dying. Hermione will be all alone :upset:

I dont think they both will, i dont even think Harry would die, it just doesnt seem to be the right ending for such a great book, dont you think?.

If that's the case, then I think we need to all get together somewhere & have a drink, when all is said & done!!! Heck, maybe we should do that anyways! :p

I agree!!!! Anyone from the LT is welcome at my place for a good HP argument :rotfl:

[IceKat55]

:lol: what do you think about that? would you see H/Hr as the strongest ship if Ron died? if not, why would H/G or H/L be any stronger?
*trembles* IF Ron dies (owwwww, that huuuurt!!), then I'd still want H/G. I'm a Chocolate girl, I admit. I'd want Hermione to die an old maid, pining all her life for her lost Ronnikins, and what might have been... ;)

Seriously, I'd want H/G, and I'm not 100% opposed to Hr/Neville...he did ask her out, she seems to care about him....certainly wouldn't be the worst couple of all time.

But neither would H/Hr, so if that happens, then I'll go down with the Heron, tread water for awhile, hope that some Harmonian takes pity and throws me a life-preserver, and gives me permission to come aboard the Harmony. ;)

What if it happen very subtly? Ron realizes Hermione doesn't love him, he get over her, then Harry realizing that he feels something for her, and we will get little subtle moment here and there. They don't even have to get together in the books, they'll probably get together after the war. You know, like "officially" together.
That might work. Of course, I'd be horribly disappointed that the Heron sank, and terribly confused at my own abilities to (mis)read Rowling's clues, but still...as long as Ron/Hermione/Harry are happy, then I guess I'm happy. :p

[rjade829]

I'd like to ask the opinion of the ladies on this board. If you were ever, even remotely interested in a guy, would you ever, in a million years, suggest that he should tell another woman that he thinks you are ugly?

I think not, and that this scene clearly shows where Hermione's heart lies.

Well I dunno if you're a girl or a guy, but if you're a guy ,and if that's how you think all girls' minds work you're in trouble :rotfl: We are tricky, tricky creatures...

I definitely would do what Hermione did. Some people think she's fishing for compliments; in my opinion, she's testing Harry to see how he responds to the suggestion that she is ugly. It's interesting that she adds that on as an 'afterthought', too. It's like she's giving Harry all this advice about what he should have done and then it clicks to her that this would be a good opportunity to throw this in and get an opinion about herself. She's a smart girl...that is what I think she was doing.

[oliveros]

*trembles* IF Ron dies (owwwww, that huuuurt!!), then I'd still want H/G. I'm a Chocolate girl, I admit. I'd want Hermione to die an old maid, pining all her life for her lost Ronnikins, and what might have been... ;)

Seriously, I'd want H/G, and I'm not 100% opposed to Hr/Neville...he did ask her out, she seems to care about him....certainly wouldn't be the worst couple of all time.

But neither would H/Hr, so if that happens, then I'll go down with the Heron, tread water for awhile, hope that some Harmonian takes pity and throws me a life-preserver, and gives me permission to come aboard the Harmony. ;)


That might work. Of course, I'd be horribly disappointed that the Heron sank, and terribly confused at my own abilities to (mis)read Rowling's clues, but still...as long as Ron/Hermione/Harry are happy, then I guess I'm happy. :p

*throws the lifesaver for WHEN heron sinks :evil:*

I get that you hate H/Hr, but why would H/G or N/Hr (it was hard for me to even type that last one) be any stronger than H/Hr?

[IceKat55]

*throws the lifesaver for WHEN heron sinks :evil:*
*looks blankly at lifejacket - looks blankly at oliveros - looks back to lifejacket - sails on* :lol:

I get that you hate H/Hr, but why would H/G or N/Hr (it was hard for me to even type that last one) be any stronger than H/Hr?
Not at all, I do not hate H/Hr!!! It's just not my first choice! I love the tension/firey passion between Ron & Hermione...but that's just me. As I said to Heather one day, I'd rather have their fire anyday, rather than lukewarm "ho-hum" feelings between H/Hr. He thinks she's clever, bookish and possibly boring. Not a lot of "throw me down & snog me senseless" kinda stuff, for lack of a better phrase. ;)

Ginny is simply one of my fave characters. I've always liked to 'root for the underdog', and little Ginny always struck me as such. She crushed hard on Harry, to no avail, for soooo long...now she's 14/15, stronger, more capable, more in touch with who she is, and with who Harry is, she managed to put him in his place, she stands up to him...I think Harry needs that in a girl. Needs someone who isn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with him, without crying (Cho) or semi-cowering (Hermione) under his anger.

And I don't think Hr/N would be particularly strong, or really of major interest.

So, if Ron is out of the question ( ;) ), then I'd choose Hr/N and H/G. If Ginny is out of the question as well, then I'd choose H/Hr and Neville/Luna (I guess...don't much care at that point, to tell you the truth!)

[x Natalie x]

I predict that Ronald will fall in love with ... me

[oliveros]

*looks blankly at lifejacket - looks blankly at oliveros - looks back to lifejacket - sails on* :lol:


You'll regret that :)


Not at all, I do not hate H/Hr!!! It's just not my first choice! I love the tension/firey passion between Ron & Hermione...but that's just me. As I said to Heather one day, I'd rather have their fire anyday, rather than lukewarm "ho-hum" feelings between H/Hr. He thinks she's clever, bookish and possibly boring. Not a lot of "throw me down & snog me senseless" kinda stuff, for lack of a better phrase. ;)

Ginny is simply one of my fave characters. I've always liked to 'root for the underdog', and little Ginny always struck me as such. She crushed hard on Harry, to no avail, for soooo long...now she's 14/15, stronger, more capable, more in touch with who she is, and with who Harry is, she managed to put him in his place, she stands up to him...I think Harry needs that in a girl. Needs someone who isn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with him, without crying (Cho) or semi-cowering (Hermione) under his anger.

And I don't think Hr/N would be particularly strong, or really of major interest.

So, if Ron is out of the question ( ;) ), then I'd choose Hr/N and H/G. If Ginny is out of the question as well, then I'd choose H/Hr and Neville/Luna (I guess...don't much care at that point, to tell you the truth!)

Ok, but you still havent answered my question. I see why you'd preffer H/G, but i dont see how it would be stronger than H/Hr. Thats what i want to know.

[rjade829]

I predict that Ronald will fall in love with ... me

Well I'm ok with that; better Ron/you than Ron/Hermione. :evil: :rotfl:

IceKat, you think H/HR is boring but not everyone does. Lots of people can see the potential for 'passion' behind their relationship. If JKR does write it, I hope you'll be convinced. I'd like to return to a happy love thread. :) *snort* I think that's an oxymoron :lol:

[I <3 Ron]

[I]Not a lot of "throw me down & snog me senseless" kinda stuff, for lack of a better phrase. ;)
Oh no, definitely the perfect phrase.

Ginny is simply one of my fave characters. I've always liked to 'root for the underdog', and little Ginny always struck me as such. She crushed hard on Harry, to no avail, for soooo long...now she's 14/15, stronger, more capable, more in touch with who she is, and with who Harry is, she managed to put him in his place, she stands up to him...I think Harry needs that in a girl. Needs someone who isn't afraid to go toe-to-toe with him, without crying (Cho) or semi-cowering (Hermione) under his anger.

Yes, that's exactly how I feel! She's the only one who wouldn't tolerate Harry's "oh I'm so misunderstood" phase, and has no problem with standing up to him. When before she could barely stay in front of him. Harry has noticed the change, and this to me is much more than any signs of H-->Hr. And I doubt Ginny would be opposed to going out with Harry.

[sysripperim]

I also belive that Harry will fell in love with Ginny ... but only in book seven ... anyway he already has Ron's approval and about Harry and Hermione ... I belive that Hermione will fall in love with Ron ... sorry Natalie :)

[rjade829]

Yes, that's exactly how I feel! She's the only one who wouldn't tolerate Harry's "oh I'm so misunderstood" phase,

That's funny, since I distinctly remember Hermione snapping at Harry to "Oh, stop feeling all misunderstood." :p

[Mami]

Oh no, definitely the perfect phrase.
Yes, that's exactly how I feel! She's the only one who wouldn't tolerate Harry's "oh I'm so misunderstood" phase, and has no problem with standing up to him. When before she could barely stay in front of him. Harry has noticed the change, and this to me is much more than any signs of H-->Hr. And I doubt Ginny would be opposed to going out with Harry.

When has Harry noticed the change in Ginny? The only thing he noticed was that she would talk in front of him now, and he didn't care that much afterwards. I would see Harry noticing Ginny as very out of character.

[I <3 Ron]

That's funny, since I distinctly remember Hermione snapping at Harry to "Oh, stop feeling all misunderstood." :p
Opps, wrong phase. I was thinking of the "no ones ever been through as much as me" phase.

When has Harry noticed the change in Ginny? The only thing he noticed was that she would talk in front of him now, and he didn't care that much afterwards. I would see Harry noticing Ginny as very out of character.
There's multiple mentions of how much she reminded him of Fred and George, and she seems so much more confident, Harry is bound to see that (although I think he already has).

[IceKat55]

Ok, but you still havent answered my question. I see why you'd preffer H/G, but i dont see how it would be stronger than H/Hr. Thats what i want to know.
Ah, understood.

Stronger, how? Love-wise, friendship-wise, compatibility-wise? I think Harry sees Hermione as an extremely clever witch, he's very, very happy she's on his side, he loves her very much as one of the best friends he'll ever have, and (as I've explained in other posts) his "voice of reason". She's a sort of guiding (mothering) voice in his life that he's never known.

Ginny, well that remains to be seen. She showed a little of her stuff in OotP...she put Harry firmly in his place, reminded him that they do have something big in common, she was a patient listener in the library (chocolate) scene and helped him in his desire to speak to Sirius, shares his love of Quidditch (compatibility factor, maybe?), and she's shown that she's not scared of a battle/fight (she was insistant on going to the MoM) and will walk into danger beside Harry. They aren't in love (yet ;) ), so who knows how that would work? But compatibility and friendship wise, I see them as potentially being a very strong couple, yes.

Not necessarily stronger than Hermione and Harry's friendship and understanding. Just different. :)

[x alohomora x]

I predict that Ronald will fall in love with ... me

Haha... nasty girl :p eww look @ your Location!! Lol.. it's your business... but eww! Haha

[oliveros]

Ah, understood.

Stronger, how? Love-wise, friendship-wise, compatibility-wise? I think Harry sees Hermione as an extremely clever witch, he's very, very happy she's on his side, he loves her very much as one of the best friends he'll ever have, and (as I've explained in other posts) his "voice of reason". She's a sort of guiding (mothering) voice in his life that he's never known.

Ginny, well that remains to be seen. She showed a little of her stuff in OotP...she put Harry firmly in his place, reminded him that they do have something big in common, she was a patient listener in the library (chocolate) scene and helped him in his desire to speak to Sirius, shares his love of Quidditch (compatibility factor, maybe?), and she's shown that she's not scared of a battle/fight (she was insistant on going to the MoM) and will walk into danger beside Harry. They aren't in love (yet ;) l), so who knows how that would work? But compatibility and friendship wise, I see them as potentially being a very strong couple, yes.

Not necessarily stronger than Hermione and Harry's friendship and understanding. Just different. :)


Thanks! thats one way of seeing it, but i see it completely different. It all depends on our interpretation and expectations of the books. We'll see who needs the lifesaver in the end. Dont worry, ill be the first one to throw you one :)

[x alohomora x]

We'll see who needs the lifesaver in the end. Dont worry, ill be the first one to throw you one :)

Ha, don't sound so eager.

[oliveros]

Ha, don't sound so eager.

:rotfl: i was joking! Though id need a whole rescue team more than a lifesaver if Harmony sinks :rotfl:

[I <3 Ron]

:rotfl: i was joking! Though id need a whole rescue team more than a lifesaver if Harmony sinks :rotfl:
We'll gather one for you. :p

BTW, x alohomora x, I LOVE your siggy.

[IceKat55]

Thanks! thats one way of seeing it, but i see it completely different. It all depends on our interpretation and expectations of the books. We'll see who needs the lifesaver in the end. Dont worry, ill be the first one to throw you one :)
I appreciate that! And in the event that the Heron sails, I'll do the same for you!! :D

[tantrix]

Alright.. some serious discussion now.. I was thinking about H/Hr and H/G... I think that Ginny would come out of the covers and ask Harry out.. afterall she's been enchanted with the kid and now she's 15. Also.. there might be something in Luna.. JKR didn't show us the Luna/R angle just for fun.. I think that will become seriously important in the next book..

[IceKat55]

I think that Ginny would come out of the covers and ask Harry out.. afterall she's been enchanted with the kid and now she's 15.
Oooh, that'd be kinda cool!

Although, I think it'd be more fun if she were to play "hard to get". Make Harry chase her for a bit!!! :lol:

[oliveros]

Alright.. some serious discussion now.. I was thinking about H/Hr and H/G... I think that Ginny would come out of the covers and ask Harry out.. afterall she's been enchanted with the kid and now she's 15. Also.. there might be something in Luna.. JKR didn't show us the Luna/R angle just for fun.. I think that will become seriously important in the next book..

I dont know about that. Ginny has apparently moved on, and i dont see anything that would motivate her to ask him out.

[princess_potter]

honestly guys I think Jk is hinting at something with Harry and Ginny, on the train back in OotP, when Ginny tells Ron shes going out with Dean Thomas, Ron says "just choose someone more better next time" (not exact qu0te) and then he casts harry a strange look...I think JK wants ust o read in between the lines here and realize that since PoA, there has been soemthing between Harry and Ginny since he saved her from the Basilisk....i guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[LordIluvatar]

Alright.. some serious discussion now.. I was thinking about H/Hr and H/G... I think that Ginny would come out of the covers and ask Harry out.. afterall she's been enchanted with the kid and now she's 15. Also.. there might be something in Luna.. JKR didn't show us the Luna/R angle just for fun.. I think that will become seriously important in the next book..

I also wondered why Jkr introducing Luna so late in the series, and jkr showed Luna liken Ron in ootp. So people who think Harry an Luna our going to get together our crazy :rotfl: Its definitly going to be Luna an Ron. Rons going to run to Luna after he ask Hermione out an she tells Ron she has feelings for someone else(cough*Harry*cough). Then Hermiones going to tell Harry how she feels about him an then there together an yea :p

[Eno Imreh]

Hmm... IceKat55, this is from v. 29, sorry it's late but I just got home...

I think that you misunderstood me when I said "like saying Hermione talked about Ron just like she talked about Harry to Viktor Krum? or Krum only talked to Harry because he read Rita Skeeter's article?" (not exact wording). I was just pointing out that GrangerGal said "we must not assume something if it is not written in the books" (not exact wording), but I have heard arguments of Hermione talking about Ron, and so on, which was never written in the books. I was pointing out that what GrangerGal said (whom I believe supports R/Hr) directly conflicts with what you, and some others, have said. That was all. :)

[sone]

I <3 Ron, how can you say Ginny is the only one who wouldn't tolerate Harry's "oh I'm so misunderstood" phase when it was Hermione herself who said "oh, stop feeling all misunderstood" and sharply at that? Hermione does not have a problem with standing up to Harry. Hell, Hermione is the one that confronts Harry the most whenever he is upset or about to do something stupid. I do not understand why people keep arguing about Hermione being apprehensive when it has never stopped her from saying exactly what is on her mind. People pay more attention to the fact that apprehensive than the fact that she is still saying what is on her mind. Ginny only put Harry "in his place" that one time because of what she said, not because of her backbone or her anger. Hermione did the same thing just not with her temper rising.

Chapt. 12 Professor Umbridge

'Anyway, what's up, Harry?' Hermione continued, as they walked down a flight of stairs lined with portraits of old witches and wizards, all of whom ignored them, being engrossed in their own conversation. 'You look really angry about something.'

'Seamus reckons Harry's lying about You-Know-Who,' said Ron succinctly, when Harry did not respond.

Hermione, who Harry had expected to react angrily on his behalf, sighed.

'Yes, Lavender thinks so too,' she said gloomily.

'Been having a nice little chat with her about whether or not I'm a lying, attention-seeking prat, have you?' Harry said loudly.

'No,' said Hermione calmly. 'I told her to keep her big fat mouth shut about you, actually. And it would be quite nice if you stopped jumping down our throats, Harry, because in case you haven't noticed, Ron and I are on your side.'

There was a short pause.

'Sorry,' said Harry in a low voice.

That's quite all right,' said Hermione with dignity.

[I <3 Ron]

I <3 Ron, how can you say Ginny is the only one who wouldn't tolerate Harry's "oh I'm so misunderstood" phase when it was Hermione herself who said "oh, stop feeling all misunderstood" and sharply at that? Hermione does not have a problem with standing up to Harry. Hell, Hermione is the one that confronts Harry the most whenever he is upset or about to do something stupid. I do not understand why people keep arguing about Hermione being apprehensive when it has never stopped her from saying exactly what is on her mind. People pay more attention to the fact that apprehensive than the fact that she is still saying what is on her mind. Ginny only put Harry "in his place" that one time because of what she said, not because of her backbone or her anger. Hermione did the same thing just not with her temper rising.

Chapt. 12 Professor Umbridge

'Anyway, what's up, Harry?' Hermione continued, as they walked down a flight of stairs lined with portraits of old witches and wizards, all of whom ignored them, being engrossed in their own conversation. 'You look really angry about something.'

'Seamus reckons Harry's lying about You-Know-Who,' said Ron succinctly, when Harry did not respond.

Hermione, who Harry had expected to react angrily on his behalf, sighed.

'Yes, Lavender thinks so too,' she said gloomily.

'Been having a nice little chat with her about whether or not I'm a lying, attention-seeking prat, have you?' Harry said loudly.

'No,' said Hermione calmly. 'I told her to keep her big fat mouth shut about you, actually. And it would be quite nice if you stopped jumping down our throats, Harry, because in case you haven't noticed, Ron and I are on your side.'

There was a short pause.

'Sorry,' said Harry in a low voice.

That's quite all right,' said Hermione with dignity.
I know, I had the wrong phase. And there are examples of Harry being angry and Hermione cowering (can't remember where, sorry I'm dead tired). And I vaguely remember another scene in which they just arrived home from St. Mungos and Hermione arrives and asks to talk to Harry and Harry says that nobody wants to talk to him, and than Ginny says, "You've been hiding from us!". Er... was that relevant to my argument? Oh just forget this post...

[sone]

And there are examples of Harry being angry and Hermione cowering... I'll say it again. I do not understand why people keep arguing about Hermione being apprehensive when it has never stopped her from saying exactly what is on her mind. People pay more attention to the fact that apprehensive than the fact that she is still saying what is on her mind. Hermione faced the worst of Harry's rages when Ginny was somewhere else. It was Hermione who even got Harry out of Buckbeak's room in the first place so Ginny, Ron and herself could talk to him. It was Hermione who convinced Harry that Ginny could help when he told in entirely rude terms that she couldn't. Ron most of the time would back down and not say anything or look to Hermione to speak. No one here is calling him a coward.

[I <3 Ron]

I'll say it again. I do not understand why people keep arguing about Hermione being apprehensive when it has never stopped her from saying exactly what is on her mind. People pay more attention to the fact that apprehensive than the fact that she is still saying what is on her mind. Hermione faced the worst of Harry's rages when Ginny was somewhere else. It was Hermione who even got Harry out of Buckbeak's room in the first place so Ginny, Ron and herself could talk to him. It was Hermione who convinced Harry that Ginny could help when he told in entirely rude terms that she couldn't. Ron most of the time would back down and not say anything or look to Hermione to speak. No one here is calling him a coward.
I never said Hermione was a coward, all I said was that Ginny was starting to stand up to Harry, which is true. You're absolutely right, Hermione does put Harry in his place most of the time.

I wouldn't exactly call Ron a coward, as Hermione says, he's got the emotional range of a teaspoon, so he probably doesn't know how to respond to Harry's emotions as well as Hermione.

[v@sh]

Firstly, my own view is that she was referring (“You will have to read between the lines”) to the answer ( “on that one”) she had just given, but that is a moot point which I am not prepared to argue (incidentally the clues to which she refers are probably a combination of canon clues and clues she has given in previous interviews).

So let’s just assume for one minute that the “reading between the lines” remark refers to what is in the books. The fact of the matter is that you do have to read between the lines to get the gist of R/Hr.


Errmm...now R/Hr is reading between the lines instead of being so obvious?? :huh:

The example of Fluer was presented as so obvious many times and now its reading between the lines? First it was obvious from R/Hr POV that Hermione was jealous of Fluer and Ron, and now we have to read in between the lines to see Hermione's true reaction???

A bit of twisitng the quote to suit the ship IMO. I don't think I need to say anymore.

[The Bride]

I can't imagine Harry taking much notice of Ginny; he didn't really seem to care much that she had gotten so much cooler in the fifth book. I love Ginny and all, but I'd personally like to see Harry with Luna Lovegood. I mean, after years of being teased and picked on, I think she deserves a little something, don't you? ;) Anyway, she seems to be the only one that Harry doesn't immediately blow up at.

I also think that Hermione/Ron is inevidble- Harry/Hermione is nice and all, but it seems to be too dull of a couple for my tastes.

[oliveros]

Errmm...now R/Hr is reading between the lines instead of being so obvious?? :huh:

The example of Fluer was presented as so obvious many times and now its reading between the lines? First it was obvious from R/Hr POV that Hermione was jealous of Fluer and Ron, and now we have to read in between the lines to see Hermione's true reaction???

A bit of twisitng the quote to suit the ship IMO. I don't think I need to say anymore.


I dont think that this quote sinks R/Hr, but it certainly kills one of their most common arguments: it so obvious that it has to be.

[sone]

Errmm...now R/Hr is reading between the lines instead of being so obvious?? :huh:

The example of Fluer was presented as so obvious many times and now its reading between the lines? First it was obvious from R/Hr POV that Hermione was jealous of Fluer and Ron, and now we have to read in between the lines to see Hermione's true reaction???

A bit of twisitng the quote to suit the ship IMO. I don't think I need to say anymore. I concur.

[I <3 Ron]

I dont think that this quote sinks R/Hr, but it certainly kills one of their most common arguments: it so obvious that it has to be.
Well JKR did say it was obvious, but we'd have to read between the lines. There's no help there, now is there?

[x Natalie x]

Well I'm ok with that; better Ron/you than Ron/Hermione. :evil: :rotfl:

IceKat, you think H/HR is boring but not everyone does. Lots of people can see the potential for 'passion' behind their relationship. If JKR does write it, I hope you'll be convinced. I'd like to return to a happy love thread. :) *snort* I think that's an oxymoron :lol:
Yes! Someone agrees :)

Ronald shall be mine, you all watch :evil:

[oliveros]

Well JKR did say it was obvious, but we'd have to read between the lines. There's no help there, now is there?

I dunno, it sounded to me like shes given lots of clues that arent THAT obvious. That doesnt help at all, there are clues like that for most ships

[Mad-I Moody]

Actually, Daveydee gave very good examples of what JKR thinks of as "subtle" clues that require "careful reading" or "reading between the lines." These clues, such as Harry's new crush on Cho, were quite obvious, at least to many of us, but JKR said we'd have to be "careful readers" to noticethem. So maybe Jo thinks of "reading between the lines" as being in league with the more obvious ("Hermione acts very un-Hermione-like around that girl Ron likes, I wonder if maybe she's jealous?") instead of the more esoteric ("Harry and Hermione took a ride on a hippogriff, which, as 1% of the readership knows has AT TIMES been used as a symbol of love (disregarding the other things hippogriffs have been used to symbolise), so I wonder if they must be falling in love?").

That was, at least in my view, what Dave was pointing out -- that our view of "reading between the lines" and JKR's view of "reading between the lines" may just be two different things. I think it is a reasonable conclusion.

[rjade829]

So maybe Jo thinks of "reading between the lines" as being in league with the more obvious ("Hermione acts very un-Hermione-like around that girl Ron likes, I wonder if maybe she's jealous?") instead of the more esoteric ("Harry and Hermione took a ride on a hippogriff, which, as 1% of the readership knows has AT TIMES been used as a symbol of love (disregarding the other things hippogriffs have been used to symbolise), so I wonder if they must be falling in love?").

Before I came here, I didn't know anything about all the symbols, but I felt it was H/HR because I picked up on things like Hermione's reaction to Harry and Cho's kiss, stuff like that. Surely that isn't too esoteric? It's much more obvious than the symbolism and I'm sure I'm not the only person who picked up on stuff like that...

[The Bride]

Before I came here, I didn't know anything about all the symbols, but I felt it was H/HR because I picked up on things like Hermione's reaction to Harry and Cho's kiss, stuff like that. Surely that isn't too esoteric? It's much more obvious than the symbolism and I'm sure I'm not the only person who picked up on stuff like that...

... I'm not sure what Hermione's reaction was to Harry and Cho's kiss- I didn't bother reading into that very much; I just thought she was just curious as to whether they had actually kissed...

[rjade829]

... I'm not sure what Hermione's reaction was to Harry and Cho's kiss- I didn't bother reading into that very much; I just thought she was just curious as to whether they had actually kissed...

Oh, that scene's been discussed a lot in the love thread. But see, I didn't try to read into it either, it just sort of came to me the first time I read OOTP and each time I reread it I get the same impression even if I try to look at it differently. It's just the way I interpreted things like that, and it's quite annoying since everyone interprets things differently so we're never going to know if we were right until we read the next books. And if I'm wrong I'll probably be a little annoyed at myself for interpreting things the way I did, but I can't help that I read it that way...and, *sigh* I'm rambling now... :p :lol:

[sone]

Actually, Daveydee gave very good examples of what JKR thinks of as "subtle" clues that require "careful reading" or "reading between the lines." I thought so did FlyingPhoenix in regards to how they weren't. They weren't as obvious as people thought at the time. It is easier to say now that we have the books in front of us what clues were evident and what not. One thing I liked most about Hawk92's essay about what Krum saw is that it answers so many questions that people are bound to bring up. In truth, the essay does not really have to take up that much space. However with saying this, that and the other thing, most if not all avenues have to be addressed so much for Rowling but for fans all over who will look to disprove the theory. Another example is Ginny getting a new boyfriend. Most people were surprised and so was I. But Hermione's information for me perfectly coincided with what happened in the Goblet of Fire. Most people really did not consider Ginny's suddenly stop smiling and leaving the common room with her head bowed. But it was there the whole time. Then I never expected Cho to like Harry and then of all things get jealous of Hermione, I thought that business was over in the Goblet of Fire.

... I'm not sure what Hermione's reaction was to Harry and Cho's kiss- I didn't bother reading into that very much; I just thought she was just curious as to whether they had actually kissed... I knew she was curious considering her tone during her questioning of Harry. But it was the slight frown that told me that Hermione was jealous. Plus after that, she sounded so.....withdrawn, so I thought something about the kiss was bothering her. I would trust Harry to pick up on it but not question it. Afterall, he didn't with Ginny. I definitely agree with rjade829 here.

[The Bride]

Oh, that scene's been discussed a lot in the love thread. But see, I didn't try to read into it either, it just sort of came to me the first time I read OOTP and each time I reread it I get the same impression even if I try to look at it differently. It's just the way I interpreted things like that, and it's quite annoying since everyone interprets things differently so we're never going to know if we were right until we read the next books. And if I'm wrong I'll probably be a little annoyed at myself for interpreting things the way I did, but I can't help that I read it that way...and, *sigh* I'm rambling now... :p :lol:

I never really thought about it that way... her reaction just reminded me of my own when asking my best friend, Jeff, if he had *finally* kissed this girl he's liked for six years. I suppose I just didn't read into it because I'm in love with the idea of Hermione/Ron...

[IceKat55]

I knew she was curious considering her tone during her questioning of Harry. But it was the slight frown that told me that Hermione was jealous. Plus after that, she sounded so.....withdrawn, so I thought something about the kiss was bothering her. I would trust Harry to pick up on it but not question it. Afterall, he didn't with Ginny. I definitely agree with rjade829 here.
I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider that Hermione might not want Harry to be with Cho because Hermione knows that Cho is rather emotionally unstable, and therefore NOT the right girl for Harry?

Of course Hermione knows that Harry thinks Cho is pretty and that he fancies her. Everyone knows that. However...Harry really doesn't know Cho all that well, does he? He's physically attracted to her, and is curious about finding out more...

But Hermione may already know better. She obviously knew that Cho had been crying all over the place, and she managed to explain to Harry & Ron, quite perfectly and in good detail, how Cho was feeling in regards to Harry & their new "thing". And even though Hermione probably thinks that Cho is very, very wrong for Harry, she's not going to come right out & tell him that. 1) She would sound jealous or like she was attacking Cho and 2) she's pretty sure that Harry wouldn't listen to her anyway, considering how long he'd been mooning over Cho, and was now finally getting somewhere.

However, Hermione is concerned for her friend, not wanting him to get into a relationship with a clingy, near-psycho head-case (sorry, Cho!! :lol: ), which might explain her "businesslike" and abrupt attitude, and "slight frown", about the H/Cho kiss.

But if he's going to find out for himself anyway...well, boys will be boys... ;)

[oliveros]

I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider that Hermione might not want Harry to be with Cho because Hermione knows that Cho is rather emotionally unstable, and therefore NOT the right girl for Harry?



I dunno, how would that fit with the argument that Hermione helped Harry with Cho? or are you saying that she didnt help him, that she just explained things? Id go for the last one.

[The Bride]

I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider that Hermione might not want Harry to be with Cho because Hermione knows that Cho is rather emotionally unstable, and therefore NOT the right girl for Harry?

Of course Hermione knows that Harry thinks Cho is pretty and that he fancies her. Everyone knows that. However...Harry really doesn't know Cho all that well, does he? He's physically attracted to her, and is curious about finding out more...

But Hermione may already know better. She obviously knew that Cho had been crying all over the place, and she managed to explain to Harry & Ron, quite perfectly and in good detail, how Cho was feeling in regards to Harry & their new "thing". And even though Hermione probably thinks that Cho is very, very wrong for Harry, she's not going to come right out & tell him that. 1) She would sound jealous or like she was attacking Cho and 2) she's pretty sure that Harry wouldn't listen to her anyway, considering how long he'd been mooning over Cho, and was now finally getting somewhere.

However, Hermione is concerned for her friend, not wanting him to get into a relationship with a clingy, near-psycho head-case (sorry, Cho!! :lol: ), which might explain her "businesslike" and abrupt attitude, and "slight frown", about the H/Cho kiss.

But if he's going to find out for himself anyway...well, boys will be boys... ;)

This idea makes a lot more sense to me opposed to Hermione-being-jealous-about-the-kiss. I thought that Hermione was clearly jealous about Ron's complete lack of interest in her during GoF until the last second, though.

[IceKat55]

I dunno, how would that fit with the argument that Hermione helped Harry with Cho? or are you saying that she didnt help him, that she just explained things? Id go for the last one.
She helped, yes, but she also knew that Harry was obviously going to pursue Cho, so why wouldn't she help? Better to offer a little advice on the girl's "mental state", rather than let him go along 100% blind and floundering. :)

[pj303]

She was trying to give Harry experience. She was doing this for when the time comes for him to ask her. haha

Matt

[oliveros]

She helped, yes, but she also knew that Harry was obviously going to pursue Cho, so why wouldn't she help? Better to offer a little advice on the girl's "mental state", rather than let him go along 100% blind and floundering. :)


I still dont see why Hermione would help if she knew it was doomed. It would be better for her to leave Harry alone and the relationship could have finished sooner.

[IceKat55]

I still dont see why Hermione would help if she knew it was doomed. It would be better for her to leave Harry alone and the relationship could have finished sooner.
Because it's something that Harry wanted. He wanted to get together with Cho. Why shouldn't Hermione try to help him? Maybe she's wrong about Cho, maybe Harry will be the one to make Cho happy, maybe their relationship will last? Just because Hermione herself didn't necessarily approve of the match, because she possibly questioned Cho's mental state or Harry's ability to "handle her", doesn't mean she was right....

Of course now, we all know it didn't work out, but Hermione didn't have the luxury of that foresight...otherwise, she could have warned Harry away. :)

[sone]

I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider that Hermione might not want Harry to be with Cho because Hermione knows that Cho is rather emotionally unstable, and therefore NOT the right girl for Harry? Yes, I have. However this did not fit her overall tone and withdrawn expressions. To further explain, Hermione would eventually say it to Harry one way or the other that Cho was the wrong girl for him. Particularly after the date at the tea shop fell apart at the seams. Her tone while she was questioning Harry to me sounded like she wanted to get right to the heart of the issue. Then when Harry is exchanging looks with the both of them, Hermione is slightly frowning at him and then he nods. After that, we get every describable term for being withdrawn from the conversation. Finally, the explanation gets too deep without any real text evidence.

[MoodyMania]

I wonder if anyone has stopped to consider that Hermione might not want Harry to be with Cho because Hermione knows that Cho is rather emotionally unstable, and therefore NOT the right girl for Harry?

This cannot be ruled out. But if Hermione didn't think Cho's emotional instastability was good for a relationship with Harry why would she thing Ron's emotional instability would be good for her? If Ron was as Jealous as many think he was I think that shows he isn't very emotionally stable. Heck, he even has a problem when he thinks about his sister dating even.

[IceKat55]

if you think about it, she was quite useful for explaining things to the completely and utterly clueless harry. i only have one question: if she didn't want harry and cho together, would she help harry with understanding why cho was upset with him? it seems like the nice thing that a friend would do, doesn't it? would hermione refuse to help harry if she didn't want him and cho to date? once again, i've confused myself ^^;
I don't think she'd refuse him help...she'd do just what she did, offer him advice and insight, but maybe warn him to be cautious of Cho's "fragile state". Which, she sorta did, but not in so many words. She probably just wanted to arm Harry with as much information as she could offer regarding Cho, so that he had a teensy bit of a clue.

Didn't much help, though, did it? :lol:

Hermione probably figures that it won't work out, but since she obviously doesn't know that for a fact, she keeps that to herself (so as not to pi$$ off Harry, seem jealous or mean toward Cho) and offers her friend some advice, the best way she can. :)

[oliveros]

Because it's something that Harry wanted. He wanted to get together with Cho. Why shouldn't Hermione try to help him? Maybe she's wrong about Cho, maybe Harry will be the one to make Cho happy, maybe their relationship will last? Just because Hermione herself didn't necessarily approve of the match, because she possibly questioned Cho's mental state or Harry's ability to "handle her", doesn't mean she was right....

Of course now, we all know it didn't work out, but Hermione didn't have the luxury of that foresight...otherwise, she could have warned Harry away. :)


now i undersand, but i still dont agree (big surprise:) ) It still doesnt seem possible to me for Hermione to do that. We'll have to wait and see.



if you think about it, she was quite useful for explaining things to the completely and utterly clueless harry. i only have one question: if she didn't want harry and cho together, would she help harry with understanding why cho was upset with him? it seems like the nice thing that a friend would do, doesn't it? would hermione refuse to help harry if she didn't want him and cho to date? once again, i've confused myself ^^;

You said it yourself: Theyre friends. If she could explain things then that was the right thing to do. She never gave advice though, and thats what i find suspicious. If she didnt have much hope of getting together with Harry, and she was truly in love with him, then i guess she'd do whats right and let him be happy.

[IceKat55]

This cannot be ruled out. But if Hermione didn't think Cho's emotional instastability was good for a relationship with Harry why would she thing Ron's emotional instability would be good for her? If Ron was as Jealous as many think he was I think that shows he isn't very emotionally stable. Heck, he even has a problem when he thinks about his sister dating even.
"Unstable" and "immature" are two different things. I don't think Ron is emotionally unstable. I think he's a 15 year old boy, and is emotionally immature. :)

If Hermione sees Cho as "emotionally unstable", then obviously, she knows that is NOT what Harry needs. However...Harry wants Cho. So, Hermione wants to help him get her. If it ends badly (which it probably will), then Harry will learn from his experience and move on. Which is pretty much what happens. ;)

You said it yourself: Theyre friends. If she could explain things then that was the right thing to do. She never gave advice though, and thats what i find suspicious. If she didnt have much hope of getting together with Harry, and she was truly in love with him, then i guess she'd do whats right and let him be happy.
She did offer Harry advice, as well as insight into Cho's emotions.

Telling Harry "mention how ugly you think I am" is advice, as is telling him "You should have told her differently" regarding the meeting with Hermione in Hogsmeade. She's giving him ammunition to go back to Cho and explain the misunderstanding. :)

[oliveros]

"Unstable" and "immature" are two different things. I don't think Ron is emotionally unstable. I think he's a 15 year old boy, and is emotionally immature. :)

If Hermione sees Cho as "emotionally unstable", then obviously, she knows that is NOT what Harry needs. However...Harry wants Cho. So, Hermione wants to help him get her. If it ends badly (which it probably will), then Harry will learn from his experience and move on. Which is pretty much what happens. ;)


She did offer Harry advice, as well as insight into Cho's emotions.

Telling Harry "mention how ugly you think I am" is advice, as is telling him "You should have told her differently" regarding the meeting with Hermione in Hogsmeade. She's giving him ammunition to go back to Cho and explain the misunderstanding. :)

You could have or should have makes me think that she was explaining something in the past. She didnt actually tell him something like "you should go and talk with Cho", not even she saw how depressed he was after he found out about Sirius and she thought it was about Cho. Though, curiously Ginny did tell him to go and talk with Cho. I wonder what that means ;)

[IceKat55]

You could have or should have makes me think that she was explaining something in the past. She didnt actually tell him something like "you should go and talk with Cho", not even she saw how depressed he was after he found out about Sirius and she thought it was about Cho.
True, but I'm sure Hermione assumed that Harry might want to "kiss & make up" with Cho. Giving him awareness of why Cho was upset, and a few things he should/should have said (the "ugly" comment) would better prepare him to smooth over the misunderstanding. :)

Though, curiously Ginny did tell him to go and talk with Cho. I wonder what that means ;)
Ginny doesn't know too much at this point, Harry doesn't share information with her like he does with Hermione. She just assumed that it was Cho he was bummed about, because it was probably all over the school, what had happened between them. :)

[Hope1272]

by IceKat55
Because it's something that Harry wanted. He wanted to get together with Cho. Why shouldn't Hermione try to help him? Maybe she's wrong about Cho, maybe Harry will be the one to make Cho happy, maybe their relationship will last? Just because Hermione herself didn't necessarily approve of the match, because she possibly questioned Cho's mental state or Harry's ability to "handle her", doesn't mean she was right....

I would agree with Hermione wanting Harry to be happy and that she might keep her approval or disapproval to herself. But I don't think she would keep quiet if she really questioned Cho's mental state or feared for Harry's ability to handle Cho. She brought up concerns about Sirius and the possible psychology behind his actions with Harry(treating him more like a brother than as a guardian, egging on their plans for the DA because he wanted to relive his Marauder days or to deal with his own feelings of helplessness) when she knew there was far greater risk of Harry being unhappy with her opinions.

I think Hermione was unhappy with the turn of events, but could not find anything other than her own disapproval as the cause. Hermione, being Hermione, would not consider this a valid reason to voice it aloud considering this is what she thought Harry wanted.

[IceKat55]

I would agree with Hermione wanting Harry to be happy and that she might keep her approval or disapproval to herself. But I don't think she would keep quiet if she really questioned Cho's mental state or feared for Harry's ability to handle Cho. She brought up concerns about Sirius and the possible psychology behind his actions with Harry(treating him more like a brother than as a guardian, egging on their plans for the DA because he wanted to relive his Marauder days or to deal with his own feelings of helplessness) when she knew there was far greater risk of Harry being unhappy with her opinions.
True, and possible. But if she felt her "questions about Cho's mental state" might be unfounded, or more to the point, she thought Harry would see them that way, then she wouldn't want to make Harry angry. I'd be the same way...rather than coming off as jealous or being mean about Cho for no reason, let him make his own mistakes & learn from them. :)

And Sirius was a much deeper issue...Harry had come to view Sirius as a father-figure, and even though Hermione knew Harry would be unhappy about her opinions there, those were probably more important concerns that needed to be voiced. Harry would have followed Sirius right over the edge of a cliff, if he'd asked...

ETA: signing off for the evening, I'm sleeeeeepy. :) 'night, all!

[Genevieve]

It's not Hermione's action that's important in that scene, it was the boys' reactions. I believe that Ron brought his hand up to his cheek where she kissed him in disbelief (I don't have the book with me at the moment, so I can't post the exact wording). I vaguely remember Harry just shrugging it off. I don't think he thought too much about it.


Hermione and Ron are going to need each other when Harry dies fighting Voldemorte. . . they are going to be the survivors and help him as much as possible but I am very afraid that Harry will have to become the Messianic figure to save his friends and the greater wizarding world.

Side note, the Yule Ball tells it all, Harry isn't jealous of Krum but Ron is through and through but doesn't know why!!

[sone]

Side note, the Yule Ball tells it all, Harry isn't jealous of Krum but Ron is through and through but doesn't know why!! My favorite reply to this is that Harry does not have to be as he was interested in another girl. As it was told, Viktor Krum was jealous of Harry and he assumed he knew why but he was wrong. :) Finally, Harry never thinks much of a kiss on the cheek. Ron had only been kissed by two girls. Harry was kissed by two or more girls in two books alone.

[GrangerGal]

Yes I am a Ron Hermione Fan! I truly believe they are going to get together... But I thought I would throw a quick question out to all the shippers... Why does a couple have to come out of the trio? Why are we all so sure that Hermione will end up with Ron or Harry? Just thought I would throw that one out there since everyone seems to believe one or the other. (Although I remember there were a few Hermione/Draco fans out there)

[sone]

Why does a couple have to come out of the trio? Why are we all so sure that Hermione will end up with Ron or Harry? Because I think it is inevitable. Ron intentions alone demand that something happens. Harry and Hermione's continuing problems with people assuming something more about their friendship. They are really going to have to start clearing the air better than they have been lately. First Viktor, then Cho and even Ron is getting into it a little bit.

[Mad-I Moody]

They are really going to have to start clearing the air better than they have been lately.
from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire:

"I vant to know," he said glowering, "vot there is between you and Hermy-own-ninny."
Harry, who from Krum's secretive manner had expected something much more serious than this, stared up at Krum in amazement.
"Nothing," he said.

<snip>

"Hermy-own-ninny talks about you very often," said Krum, looking suspiciously at Harry.
"Yeah," said Harry, "because we're friends."

<snip>

"You haff never...you have not..."
"No," said Harry, very firmly.

Also in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire:

"Mrs. Weasley, you didn't believe that rubbish Rita Skeeter wrote in Witch Weekly, did you? Because Hermione's not my girlfriend."

And from Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix:

"...I don't know why you asked me out in the first place if you're going to make arrangements to meet other girls right after me...How many are you meeting after Hermione?"
"It's not like that!" said Harry...

(of course, Cho doesn't give him more time to explain, but, had she, I imagine Harry could have made it clear that he liked her and not Hermione, per the following conversation)

"Well, wouldn't it have been easier if she'd just asked me whether I liked her better than you?"
"Girls don't often ask questions like that," said Hermione.
"Well, they should!" said Harry forcefully. "Then I could've just told her I fancy her..."



I think the air is pretty clear.

[rjade829]

Well I some how stumbled onto one of those H/Hr fan sites. I don't know how or evne remember how I found this site Given that I'm not exactly partial to the idea of H/Hr (and that's putting it delicately) I found all of it completely revolting. I'm sure you many of you will think otherwise but that's jsut my opinion. www.harryloveshermione.com (http://www.harryloveshermione.com)

*chuckles to self* Well, it's nice that you find it all completely revolting. I wouldn't expect an anti-H/HR person to fall in love with it. That is quite a nice H/HR site in my opinion though. And I have a fanart on it, I hope you didn't find it revolting as well. No but seriously...sigh...we all need to stop being 'revolted' by all the other ships if we're actually going to enjoy the last two books...perhaps we should turn the love thread into the "Opposing Ships Appreciation Therapy" thread instead... :p

You might have come across that site because it's the one that hosts the 3 GoF filming pics that TLC and Mugglenet link to. *shrug*

[green_ginevra]

Originally posted by rjade829
perhaps we should turn the love thread into the "Opposing Ships Appreciation Therapy" thread instead...
lol, i completely agree!

[Avada Kedavra]

Well I some how stumbled onto one of those H/Hr fan sites. I don't know how or evne remember how I found this site Given that I'm not exactly partial to the idea of H/Hr (and that's putting it delicately) I found all of it completely revolting. I'm sure you many of you will think otherwise but that's jsut my opinion. www.harryloveshermione.com


Harsh, very harsh. It's things like this that cause several shipping sites to go on hiatus. Many Harmony sites have been temporarily closed because of hate mail they've been receiving concerning anti Harmony. I may not fully appreciate Heron but I can appreciate the work that these people put in those sites.

This site is one of my favorites. Thank you for putting it down.

[rjade829]

Harsh, very harsh. It's things like this that cause several shipping sites to go on hiatus. Many Harmony sites have been temporarily closed because of hate mail they've been receiving concerning anti Harmony. I may not fully appreciate Heron but I can appreciate the work that these people put in those sites.

*smirk* I'm sure you've read the hate mails that she posts and comments on. They never fail to make me laugh out loud. It makes me appreciate all the wonderfully intelligent and respectful Herons and Chocolate people (Chocolateers? lol) who actually debate, well, intelligently on here. Yay :)

[Discordia]

Harsh, very harsh. It's things like this that cause several shipping sites to go on hiatus. Many Harmony sites have been temporarily closed because of hate mail they've been receiving concerning anti Harmony. I may not fully appreciate Heron but I can appreciate the work that these people put in those sites.

This site is one of my favorites. Thank you for putting it down. You're welcome. Lol, I would never condescend to that level and actually send hate mail to a site even if they were for a ship I didn't like. I'm just saying that to someone of my tastes I wouldn't really like the site all that much but I like fan art as much as the next person and the ones on there were pretty goof by the way. The only reason I posted that site in the first place is because I figured it's something you guys, H/Hr shippers in particular would like to see. It's one of those sites that I know H/Hr shipers would love but R/Hr shippers would hate. I never bad mouthed the workmanship just that my tastes differ. Why can't I voice my opinions on how I feel about something especially on whether I like something or not? I didn't like the site are you that surprised given I'm not an H/Hr shipper? I didn't like the site but I'm sure that the rest of you will. I never meant to create this argument over the site but I probably should have realized this would have happended in the first place given how leicentious we all are on this thread. Either you go to the site I posted or you don't.


*smirk* I'm sure you've read the hate mails that she posts and comments on.
I hope you're not referring to me becasue I haven't been posting on the ship thread for weeks. So I don't know who you're talking about......and if you are( which I hope you aren't) I never waste my time on that sort of pettiness.

[sone]

I said they are really going to have to start clearing the air better than they have been lately. The Goblet of Fire is not lately. Nevertheless:

from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire:

"I vant to know," he said glowering, "vot there is between you and Hermy-own-ninny."
Harry, who from Krum's secretive manner had expected something much more serious than this, stared up at Krum in amazement.
"Nothing," he said.

<snip>

"Hermy-own-ninny talks about you very often," said Krum, looking suspiciously at Harry.
"Yeah," said Harry, "because we're friends."

<snip>

"You haff never...you have not..."
"No," said Harry, very firmly.

It is good that Harry cleared the air about this, however what spurned this on in the first place was Hermione ignoring Viktor at the Second Task. At the second task, after Harry came out from the lake, Viktor couldn't get Hermione's attention for two seconds. When he tells her she has a water beetle in her hair, she doesn't say thanks, she doesn't even turn around to look at him. Just plunges on with her conversation with Harry. On top of that, she talks about Harry very often. Viktor as Skeeter truthfully said is openly smitten with Hermione, has already invited her to visit him in Bulgaria over the summer holidays, and insists that he has "never felt this way about any other girl" and yet she is talking to him very often about another boy, Harry.

Also in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire:

"Mrs. Weasley, you didn't believe that rubbish Rita Skeeter wrote in Witch Weekly, did you? Because Hermione's not my girlfriend."

That was easy. Mrs. Weasley's opinion came off from Witch Weekly and she was treating Hermione rather coldly.

And from Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix:

"...I don't know why you asked me out in the first place if you're going to make arrangements to meet other girls right after me...How many are you meeting after Hermione?"
"It's not like that!" said Harry...

She asked Harry how many girls he was meeting after Hermione. When Harry answered "it's not like that", he meant that he was not meeting other girls after Hermione. Besides, he just messed all that up by laughing out of relief of understanding what she was upset about which completely killed whatever he just said beforehand. The clue? Perhaps it was when Cho sprang to her feet and left the tea shop.

"Well, wouldn't it have been easier if she'd just asked me whether I liked her better than you?"
"Girls don't often ask questions like that," said Hermione.
"Well, they should!" said Harry forcefully. "Then I could've just told her I fancy her..."

One, he should be telling Cho this, not Hermione. Hell, Hermione at the very least should of suggested it. The clue just might be in the fact that she hasn't spoken to Harry and won't even look at him since the fiasco at the tea shop. Two, you noticed that he never says that he likes Cho better Hermione. With that said:

'She's a lovely person really,' said Cho. 'She just made a mistake -'

Harry looked at her incredulously.

'A lovely person who made a mistake? She sold us all out, including you!'

'Well… we all got away, didn't we?' said Cho pleadingly. 'You know, her mum works for the Ministry, it's really difficult for her -'

'Ron's dad works for the Ministry too!' Harry said furiously. 'And in case you hadn't noticed, he hasn't got sneakwritten across his face -'

That was a really horrible trick of Hermione Granger's,' said Cho fiercely. 'She should have told us she'd jinxed that list -'

'I think it was a brilliant idea,' said Harry coldly.

Cho flushed and her eyes grew brighter.

'Oh yes, I forgot - of course, if it was darling Hermione's idea -'

'Don't start crying again,' said Harry warningly.

'I wasn't going to!' she shouted.

'Yeah… well… good,' he said. I've got enough to cope with at the moment.'

'Go and cope with it then!' Cho said furiously, turning on her heel and stalking off.

Very good Harry :td: , just throw Hermione back in her face. It is his tone and the way he says it that gives it away. It is tone and the way he says it that made Cho flush and her eyes grow brighter. He is basically angry at first but when he hears Cho get on Hermione for jinxing the list, he gets cold. Cho reacts to the comment and all he can say is "don't start crying again". Yeah, she won't be jealous of Hermione now. Don't know what Cho was thinking. Cho's jealousy of Hermione was never quashed. Harry and Hermione did nothing to clear the air. Nothing. He never sat down with Cho and talked to her and Hermione never even suggested it. Ginny had it right. "If you just talked to Cho-"......

[rjade829]

I hope you're not referring to me becasue I haven't been posting on the ship thread for weeks. So I don't know who you're talking about......and if you are( which I hope you aren't) I never waste my time on that sort of pettiness.

No, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the funny hate mails on that website. :)

[Discordia]

No, I wasn't talking about you. I was talking about the funny hate mails on that website. :)

Oh, good. They have hate mail on the site?? Lol! Those are always so much fun to read!!!! I mean they are horrible but sometimes they're hilarious!

[Avada Kedavra]

You're welcome. Lol, I would never condescend to that level and actually send hate mail to a site even if they were for a ship I didn't like. I'm just saying that to someone of my tastes I wouldn't really like the site all that much but I like fan art as much as the next person and the ones on there were pretty goof by the way. The only reason I posted that site in the first place is because I figured it's something you guys, H/Hr shippers in particular would like to see. It's one of those sites that I know H/Hr shipers would love but R/Hr shippers would hate. I never bad mouthed the workmanship just that my tastes differ. Why can't I voice my opinions on how I feel about something especially on whether I like something or not? I didn't like the site are you that surprised given I'm not an H/Hr shipper? I didn't like the site but I'm sure that the rest of you will. I never meant to create this argument over the site but I probably should have realized this would have happended in the first place given how leicentious we all are on this thread. Either you go to the site I posted or you don't.

I hope you're not referring to me becasue I haven't been posting on the ship thread for weeks. So I don't know who you're talking about......and if you are( which I hope you aren't) I never waste my time on that sort of pettiness.

I apologize. It's just that I didn't understand the extent of your attitude toward the site. And again, I'm sorry if I generalized you as one of those Herons that are too hard-headed to explain why the Harmony sight disgusts you.

[Discordia]

I apologize. It's just that I didn't understand the extent of your attitude toward the site. And again, I'm sorry if I generalized you as one of those Herons that are too hard-headed to explain why the Harmony sight disgusts you.Apology accepted:)

[Dominique]

Well I some how stumbled onto one of those H/Hr fan sites. I don't know how or evne remember how I found this site Given that I'm not exactly partial to the idea of H/Hr (and that's putting it delicately) I found all of it completely revolting. I'm sure you many of you will think otherwise but that's jsut my opinion. www.harryloveshermione.com

I'm sure the webmistress of the site will be happy to hear that something she poured all her passion for the pairing, enthusiasm and God knows how many hours of her free time into is handily dismissed as "revolting". You can join some of your fellow R/Hr shippers (http://harryloveshermione.com/extras/editedforstupidity/idiots.html) in feeling that way, as Kate has gotten many comments along those lines via e-mail and her guestbook. (And even though you didn't send the above comment to her personally, you are really no better than all the other idiots mailing her.)

As an aside, I've seen many rude and obnoxious comments on this thread, but Discordia, this has got to be the rudest. Don't like the site? Don't visit it. You won't hear me railing against the Sugarquill, although I have many issues with that particular site.

[Avada Kedavra]

I'm sure the webmistress of the site will be happy to hear that something she poured all her passion for the pairing, enthusiasm and God knows how many hours of her free time into is handily dismissed as "revolting". You can join some of your fellow R/Hr shippers (http://harryloveshermione.com/extras/editedforstupidity/idiots.html) in feeling that way, as Kate has gotten many comments along those lines via e-mail and her guestbook. (And even though you didn't send the above comment to her personally, you are really no better than all the other idiots mailing her.)

As an aside, I've seen many rude and obnoxious comments on this thread, but Discordia, this has got to be the rudest. Don't like the site? Don't visit it. You won't hear me railing against the Sugarquill, although I have many issues with that particular site.

Uh-oh...I thought this matter was settled...

[xray]

"Mrs. Weasley, you didn't believe that rubbish Rita Skeeter wrote in Witch Weekly, did you? Because Hermione's not my girlfriend."That was easy. Mrs. Weasley's opinion came off from Witch Weekly and she was treating Hermione rather coldly. I think you missed the point, sone. Harry said Hermione's not my girlfriend, they are friends. Harry says this in three seperate incidents. Glug...
She asked Harry how many girls he was meeting after Hermione. When Harry answered "it's not like that", he meant that he was not meeting other girls after Hermione. :lol: After Hermione? That's not what he meant. It's rather obvious IMHO. He meant that he has no attraction to Hermione. "It's not like that!" said Harry, and he was so relieved at finally understanding what she was annoyed about that he laughed, which he realized a split second too late was also a mistake.
Cho was insinuating that Harry had another date after her, a date with Hermione. Harry scoffs at this; that is the point of Mad-I-Moody's quote. Do you really think that he meant that he was not meeting other girls after Hermione?? Is that what he was so relieved at finally understanding?
One, he should be telling Cho this, not Hermione. Hell, Hermione at the very least should of [sic] suggested it. Isn't that what she just did? Wasn't she giving him advice on Cho? Glug...
Very good Harry :td: , just throw Hermione back in her face. It is his tone and the way he says it that gives it away. It is tone and the way he says it that made Cho flush and her eyes grow brighter. He is basically angry at first but when he hears Cho get on Hermione for jinxing the list, he gets cold. Cho reacts to the comment and all he can say is "don't start crying again". Yeah, she won't be jealous of Hermione now. Don't know what Cho was thinking. Cho's jealousy of Hermione was never quashed. Harry and Hermione did nothing to clear the air. Nothing. He never sat down with Cho and talked to her and Hermione never even suggested it. Ginny had it right. "If you just talked to Cho-"......Jealousy? It certainly can't be jealousy. I can't even read a smidgen of jealousy here. It looks like he's pretty ticked off at Cho acting like some dumb stupid girl for supporting her Benedict Arnold friend who almost got them all expelled from school, including Cho. Harry is shocked over Cho's attitude about the matter. She's a lovely person who made a mistake? I'm surprised he didn't smack her around a bit (grin, well not really, but he was pretty peeved!). Basically angry at first yeah but he never stopped being angry. He was still angry days later. And yes, they never sat down to "clear the air." They're not 25 years old. They're 15 and 16. In case you've forgotten, that's how it happens when you're that young, especially in JKR's world. Glug. Your ship is going down :)

xray

[Gippal]

I would've posted earlier in this thread, but I was trying to think of this word...I'm still trying to think of it...-_-;

I'm leaning more into R/Hr thought because of the blatant (I think they are) hints in the books. I'm...what's that word...gah...I still can't think of it.

[Eno Imreh]

Cho was insinuating that Harry had another date after her, a date with Hermione. Harry scoffs at this; that is the point of Mad-I-Moody's quote. Do you really think that he meant that he was not meeting other girls after Hermione?? Is that what he was so relieved at finally understanding?
I have to disagree with you here, xray. Let's look at some text:

OotP ch. 25 The Beetle At Bay
(Harry talking to Cho) "'Er... listen, d'you wnat to come with me to the Three Broomsticks at luncktime? I'm meeting Hermione Granger there.'

Cho raised her eyebrows.

'You're meeting Hermione Granger? Today?'

'Yeah. Well, she asked me to, so I thought I would. D'you want to come with me? She said it wouldn't matter if you did.'"

Here, Harry actually confirms that he is 'meeting' (note the word meeting) Hermione later that day. Now, we know that Harry is not very understanding when it comes to females. He doesn't think anything of what he just said, as he feels it is a harmless thing to do. After Cho brings up Cedric and Harry says 'let's not talk about Cedric right now...' we come to the text in question:

"'Go on, leave!' she said, now crying into the napkin. 'I don't know why you asked me out in the first place if you're going to make arrangements to meet other girls right after me.... How many are you meeting after Hermione?'

'It's not like that!' said Harry, and he was so relieved at finally understanding what she was annoyed about that he laughed, which he realized a split second too late was a mistake."

Harry does not feel relieved at finally understanding what Cho was annoyed at until she said 'make arrangements to meet other girls right after me.... How many are you meeting after Hermione?' Earlier, Harry actually said that he was meeting Hermione, and thought nothing of it. He did not understand why Cho would care - not until she asks how many other girls he will be meeting after Hermione. Because of his cluelessness, Harry naturally believes Cho actually meant she thought he would be meeting more girls after Hermione, to which he was relieved, because obviously he wasn't. At no point in this text does it imply that Harry realized Cho was jealous of Hermione, and was relieved at that fact. He was relieved only after Cho asked 'how many are you meeting after Hermione?'

Jealousy? It certainly can't be jealousy. I can't even read a smidgen of jealousy here.
Actually, I think Sone's point is dead-on here. Mad-I Moody said that Harry and Hermione have 'cleared up the air' when people are jealous about them. However, the air has not been 'cleaned up' with Cho. Cho was already jealous of Hermione after her (Cho's) date with Harry, then neither Harry nor Hermione did anything to clear up the 'misunderstanding' Cho had about them, then what does Harry do next? He flat out defends Hermione to Cho. If Cho was jealous before, it will be even worse now. The air was never 'cleared up' for Cho.

[clearacell]

You know, it would really suck to be Hermione's boyfriend.

She gives most all of her attention to Harry during the school year to help him in what he is doing at the moment. She constantly talks about him when she's not with him (if she talks to Krum about Harry alot, I think we can assume she talks to other people only about Harry. The only contact between her and Parvati/Lavender seem to only be when she has to talk about Harry).

All of her adventures consist of her being with Harry and Ron, but moreso with Harry because Ron is always the first to leave their trio (except Book 2...and that was only because she was petrified).

When she's not either doing her homework, working on SPEW's advancement, or sleeping, she is talking to Harry about his problems. The only contact "offscreen" that we really know about between Ron and Hermione is when they call a truce to stop arguing, if only to please Harry's sanity.

Hermione's choices really seem to be limited by these things. Her "relationship" with Krum gives every indication of unrequited love, because Hermione tended to ignore, or at least give partial attention to Krum if Harry was around. This means the only men in her life are Ron and Harry...

...and it would suck to be Ron if she was his girlfriend. He seems very much like the jealous type, and having a girlfriend who obviously ADMIRES (not in the lovers sense) his best friend, Harry, more than himself, would make his head burst. She will not give attention to Ron until she knows everything is alright with Harry. Being 2nd in the life of his girlfriend would make their heated arguements even hotter, and not in a good way. Ron has always been a little jealous (well, let's face it, VERY jealous) of Harry's wealth, Quidditch abilities, and fame. If he is second to Harry in Hermione's mind (not heart), he would probably turn on Harry again.

If Harry dies this won't be a problem, and that won't be a possibility until book 7. But in my mind, Hermione either gets with Harry in the end, or Harry dies and she ends up with Ron...but if Harry lives after the defeat of Voldemort and Hermione still ends up with Ron, that is probably the most unrealistic relationship this side of me getting with Britney Spears.

But hey, if Rowling decided to put a doomed couple together for the sake of a comedic relationship, then so be it. H/Hr shippers would have to face that music and see that it was decided that they shouldn't have taken the series so seriously. We would have to see that delving and analyzing Harry Potter would be so trivial since it was written for 12 year olds, and 12 year olds could only register the "they-bicker-like-a-married-couple-therefore-they-really-like-each-other" motif. Us older folks, who have been in relationships and know what is best for their longevity, would be completely wrong in comparing the Harry Potter universe's relationships with reality. How dare us!

[Tane]

You know, it would really suck to be Hermione's boyfriend.

She gives most all of her attention to Harry during the school year to help him in what he is doing at the moment. She constantly talks about him when she's not with him (if she talks to Krum about Harry alot, I think we can assume she talks to other people only about Harry. The only contact between her and Parvati/Lavender seem to only be when she has to talk about Harry).As a non-shipper I actually see Hermione concentrating her attention on Ron through constantly noticing his little problems and telling him off for them all the time.

All of her adventures consist of her being with Harry and Ron, but moreso with Harry because Ron is always the first to leave their trio (except Book 2...and that was only because she was petrified).Yes but she spends most of her research time with Ron in OotP and also the majority of the summer holidays too, then Ron and Harry go off on an adventure and Hermione follows both of them, so she spends more time with Ron overall.

When she's not either doing her homework, working on SPEW's advancement, or sleeping, she is talking to Harry about his problems. The only contact "offscreen" that we really know about between Ron and Hermione is when they call a truce to stop arguing, if only to please Harry's sanity.No she does take not of Ron a lot more than that in the books, when Hermione is not with Harry she is with Ron mostly and even Harry wanted to know where they had both been in one of the books and that was when they stated they had been in the library researching. It was Ron who noticed Hermione suddenly appearing in lessons during PoA too. Overall though I would say Harry and Ron have a 50:50 chance at the moment of gaining Hermione.

Hermione's choices really seem to be limited by these things. Her "relationship" with Krum gives every indication of unrequited love, because Hermione tended to ignore, or at least give partial attention to Krum if Harry was around. This means the only men in her life are Ron and Harry...Yes I agree and look at the way Ron becomes so jealous when ever Hermione talks about Krum, he is very worried and concerned for Hermione when Victor is concerned and in a way I think Ron might be justified in his concerns.

Being 2nd in the life of his girlfriend would make their heated arguments even hotter, and not in a good way. Ron has always been a little jealous (well, let's face it, VERY jealous) of Harry's wealth, Quidditch abilities, and fame. If he is second to Harry in Hermione's mind (not heart), he would probably turn on Harry again.Ron's deepest desire was to become a famous quidditch player well before Harry even new about quidditch or even the wizard world. Why would Ron be jealous of Harry playing quidditch, he was terrified of the sport when he first started and turned to Harry for support and help. If I remember in PS, Ron was excited for Harry when he heard about him becoming seeker and could not wait to tell others, he was hardly jealous. I mean he is so jealous that Ron risked sacrificing his life for Harry in PS during the chess game.

Anyway this might be interesting, does Ron owe Hermione a life debt, remember the devils snare, if it was not for Hermione's Lumous spell then Ron would have died. So in a way I see Ron repaying his debt to Hermione and depending up on whether he lives through it might make Hermione see him in a different light.

At the end of the day the magical relationship stands solely in the hands of JKR and who knows, love has no plan or design, it comes from no where, one day Hermione will wake up and realize that she is in love with someone, whether it be Ron, Harry, Neville (she does have a soft spot for Neville, that is something I have noticed through out the series, always protecting him on the sly) or even Seamus (his a muggle born like Hermione though yes that is a very weak reason to choose him) in the end Hermione will find the right person for her.

Though I am leaning towards Ron/Hermione shipping lines here because Ron has never kept it a secret, that Hermione needs to lighten up and in PoA, GoF and OotP she actually started to do that and no doubt becoming more attractive in Ron’s eyes.

[rowansjet]

Not a lot of "throw me down & snog me senseless" kinda stuff [with H/Hr], for lack of a better phrase.
:rotfl: :rotfl:

I think that about sums up R/Hr arguements :p But to be politically correct, we may just not see it :cool:

[Heatherhobbit]

Okay! I'm tired. Maybe it's because it's 6 am and I just woke up. Excuse me if I seem unclear.

The fact that there is more 'on page' time between Harry and Hermione than between Ron and Hermione in OOTP does not mean that Hermione loves Harry more than Ron!! That is one of the weakest Harmonian arguements there is. You guys can (and have) done much better. This book is about Harry! Therefore, a majority of the conversations and interactions will involve Harry. The books are not told from Ron or Hermione's POV so we will never know what goes on between them when Harry is not around unless one of them tells Harry. Many Heronians acknowledge and accept that most of R/Hr will happen off the page. We don't need to read about the details, it just needs to be explained. Like Bill/Fleur and Hagrid/Maxime. We know about it, but not everything.


You may want to consider, this book is about Harry, yet, we see huge amounts of conversations and interactions between Ron and Hermione where Harry is simply a spectator. This is in all 5 books. There are pages and pages and pages that involve interactions that are Ron and Hermione exclusive. Why is JK Rowling writing it that way? When Ron and Hermione really start to get into a conversation or a spat, everyone else seems to disappear. Kind of like they are in their own little world. And they both looked offended when Harry told them to stop bickering. They don't look at their bickering as a bad thing. Harry is the one who dislikes their bickering. Ron and Hermione seem to like it. In fact, when Ron starts less arguements in OOTP, Hermione's nastiness increases. Kind of like she's egging him on. She even lies about hating skiing because she likes disagreeing with him. I know some people hate when Heronians say this, but the bickering is a mating dance that they are performing for one another. They are constantly trying to show they're smarter, better, more talented, etc than the other. This is what flirtation is all about. I think the word is one up-manship. As they become older and more mature, they are going to figure out other ways to express their passion for one another, but at this time, this seems to be the method they enjoy the most. In OOTP we are already seeing Ron make this change. He argues less often and starts to try other methods, like giving her perfume, telling her secrets, and generally agreeing with her or remaining neutral. In OOTP he actually sides with Hermione more than Harry when they disagree. In the first 4 books, he almost always sided with Harry.

I think this is a trend we will tend to see more of in HBP.

[hpfan_08]

well people if u think about it what is one of the main give away of a crush? its arguing and throwin mean comments at the person at can anyone tell me who that reminds u of? hermione and ron i mean look at them in all 3 movies there constenly at each others throats

but now that ive clarified that i also think that harry likes hermione but later on him and ron will get in a big fight over her.

*Paul

[Heatherhobbit]

Actually, I think Sone's point is dead-on here. Mad-I Moody said that Harry and Hermione have 'cleared up the air' when people are jealous about them. However, the air has not been 'cleaned up' with Cho. Cho was already jealous of Hermione after her (Cho's) date with Harry, then neither Harry nor Hermione did anything to clear up the 'misunderstanding' Cho had about them, then what does Harry do next? He flat out defends Hermione to Cho. If Cho was jealous before, it will be even worse now. The air was never 'cleared up' for Cho.
Quite frankly, that's Cho's problem and not Harry's. Harry's done with her so her problems are no longer his problems. Cho jumped to a stupid conclusion, and she never gave him a chance to explain properly. And he shouldn't have to. There was nothing between Harry and Hermione and he told her that. (It's not like that). He doesn't need her drama. And Hermione did exactly what she should have done. She stayed out of it. If she would have gone to Cho and tried explaining, it would have complicated things. This jealousy about Hermione was between Cho and Harry. Couples need to resolve their own problems in their own ways. Hermione shouldn't have to defend herself. So, it doesn't matter if the air is cleared with Cho. Harry's moved on.

Harry had every right to side with Hermione and defend her here. Who would you side with? A best friend of five years who's risked a lot for you or a girl you are fancying less and less the more you get to know her? I'd go with the best friend here. These books have a theme to them...the power and importance of friendship. We don't only see it with the trio, but with the marauders, the order, the 4 founders, the DA, etc. Friendship is always going to take priority over shallow crushes. Don't think that because Harry sided with Hermione against Cho that he is in love with Hermione. He was being sensible. Cho was being irrational.

[hpfan_08]

so who exactly are u saying likes who cuz im sticking with my theory till sum1 can offer up a better idea

[GilyAnn]

Harry does not feel relieved at finally understanding what Cho was annoyed at until she said 'make arrangements to meet other girls right after me.... How many are you meeting after Hermione?' Earlier, Harry actually said that he was meeting Hermione, and thought nothing of it. He did not understand why Cho would care - not until she asks how many other girls he will be meeting after Hermione. Because of his cluelessness, Harry naturally believes Cho actually meant she thought he would be meeting more girls after Hermione, to which he was relieved, because obviously he wasn't. At no point in this text does it imply that Harry realized Cho was jealous of Hermione, and was relieved at that fact. He was relieved only after Cho asked 'how many are you meeting after Hermione?'

I'm sorry but Harry is relieved because he finally understands why Cho is angry, it's not because of 'after Hermione' if it would be so then the words would have to be differently. Cho's remark makes Harry understand the reason (the global reason ) it's that he finally understands the reason behind Cho's words. She understands that Cho is thinking that he is meeting other girls besides her on Valentines date. Now he understands that Cho doesn't think that she's special.

Actually, I think Sone's point is dead-on here. Mad-I Moody said that Harry and Hermione have 'cleared up the air' when people are jealous about them. However, the air has not been 'cleaned up' with Cho. Cho was already jealous of Hermione after her (Cho's) date with Harry, then neither Harry nor Hermione did anything to clear up the 'misunderstanding' Cho had about them, then what does Harry do next? He flat out defends Hermione to Cho. If Cho was jealous before, it will be even worse now. The air was never 'cleared up' for Cho.

Cho is bother because of Harry's fault. Anyone would assume that if you have a date on Valentines date it would be romantic, not business like it actually was. Fact is Cho never liked Hermione. Hints at this are remarks on the DA meeting "Harry is leader", The DA name issue. She wasn't a fan of Hermione and this stupidity of Harry didn't help the matter. All of Cho's problems were in her head with a missinterpretation and a stupidity of Harry.

Harry also defends Ron in front of Cho. I said this many threads ago but I will say it again. The problem with H/C was that they loved their friends more than what they loved each other. They couldn't reach an understanding. Cho defended Marietta and her mother's work to which Harry put in front Ron and backed him up and then when Cho mentions the jinx, Harry defends Hermione. Exactly what did H/Hr expect him to do? Say "yes you are right that was a horrible trick?" I would have not expect anything less from Harry to back up his other sidekick just as he did with Ron.

You know, it would really suck to be Hermione's boyfriend.

She gives most all of her attention to Harry during the school year to help him in what he is doing at the moment.

This another thing that I feel is entirely missinterpret of Hermione's character. Yes Hermione gives attention to Harry. But. . . Hermione doesn't just help Harry on his things alone. This isn't a quality that's exclusive to Harry = Hermione. She also spends time helping Ron and in book 5 she goes to the extreme to want to plan the lessons for Hagrid so he doesn't gets sack. She hoovers horrified around Hagrid and even takes time from studying to go and try to persuade Hagrid to use something mild and boring creature so Umbridge doesn't seize it as an excuse to throw him out. She takes great time to nag Hagrid about this just like she does with Harry. It's just the nature of how Hermione is. Hermione also spends time helping Neville and even his grandmother is aware of the many time she has helped him in a bit of close edge spots.

It isn't that Hermione helps Harry alone she also does it to Neville, Hagrid and Ron, and personally don't ship her off with any of them. Off course it's more noticeable in Harry's case because he is the hero. He's the one on a tight spot and the one who has a maniacal idiot trying to kill him. Given the nature of her character I wouldn't expect anything less from her.

If this would be something that defines the H/Hr romance then Hermione wouldn't help Hagrid, Ron and Neville and any other person who's in tight spot. (Heck even buckbeak got help from Hermione when his head was about to get chopped off!) This would be reserved for Harry alone and others she would actually be concern but not take the extreme measure she always takes when she sees they are doing something wrong. This is the nature of who Hermione is, she helps people but that doesn't mean she's in love with them. She's just a good kid and everyone having a rough spot she has no problem to go out and help maximum if she can help them out with her knoledge.

Gily Ann

[hpfan_08]

ya hermione is friendly and helpful but she does through alot of mean comments towrds ron and we all kno a big sign of a crush is mean comments and besides malfoys muggle coments towards her id say that her and ron throw the most remarks around at each other

[SarahF]

Wow...so much passionate debate here! I'm rather daunted by the sheer volume of the ship threads, so I expect my thoughts will just slip into oblivion but I just wanted to add my two pennies:

JK has said on the Hermione + Harry or Ron front that she thinks it should be fairly obvious what she has in mind by now. To my mind that can only mean Hermione and Ron will end up together - maybe not forever, but in the context of these books, at least.

Anyone who has ever been in love, or even just had a school-yard crush should be able to see what has been built up between H&R, I have seen nothing that points to there being anything more than a friendship between H&H. Hermione and Ron's bickering, and Ron's "issues" with Hermione's relationships is jealousy, and Hermione's exasperation over Harry's dealings with Cho are born out of nothing more than friendly concern. That's just my take on things :)

As for Harry...I don't think he will end up with Ginny, not now. Ginny's crush was little more than that, and although maybe one day when they are adults they might discover something between them (were there going to be books with them as adults, which there aren't) but not now.

He's certainly not going to be with Cho either. He was attracted to her, but I think her attraction to him was more out of lonliness and sadness over having lost Cedric, and Harry being the closest connection to him she could find - plus, she knew he liked her and probably just wanted to feel wanted. I think now they've both come to realise that it wouldn't work out (and that's not just because of Harry's hopelessness with girls).

I'm not sure that we'll see him end up with anyone, but if he does, my pet theory is Harry & Luna. She's a strange figure and has experienced being marginalised just like him. I think they have more in common than just having seen death.

Also, I like the idea of Ginny and Neville. Neville is becoming more powerful and more confident, and perhaps Ginny will begin to see him as more than just that silly Neville Longbottom by the next book. Neville is going to be a hero, I suspect.

[hpfan_08]

i do agree with the part that harry probly wont get anyone cuz that only makes sincehe wouldnt want to endage them. and if harry doesnt get anyone than the R/Hr thing works out perfect

[Nathaniel]

I just went to Surgarquill.com (or .net or whatever), and I'm sorry, but their "proof" of R/Hr is so speculative it's sad. I also went to www.harryloveshermione.com (http://www.harryloveshermione.com/) and after reading the hate mail they got, I had to laugh. These R/Hr shippers are dumb. I seriously hope none of the R/Hr shippers on this site have sent mail to the harryloveshermione site, because if you did, it says a lot about you. I mean, my G-d.

Can I just say (which has actually already been said) that I have a whole new appreciation for the "smart, intelligent" R/Hr Shippers... :rotfl:

I'm going to post some of the emails here:

Oh my god I can't believe you follow Harry and Hermione? You must be the most stupidest person in the world.

emphasis mine
This person was calling the site stupid?

if harry and hermione were supposed to be together then why did the director make it so obviouse that ron and hermione were going to be togther?!?! they held each others hands you *** if you even pay attention to the movie or the book!!! your stupid. your turning their friendship and making it look like they are in "love" PLEASE! you need to start to PAY ATTENTION to the movie. and STOP MAKING UP THIS ****. THIS SITE IS FULL OF **** AND LIES MOTHER ****ER!!

:huh:

HEY *****ES. THIS IS PROOF THAT RON AND HERMIONE ARE GOING GET TOGETHER. I BET YOU FEEL STUPID. GO TO http://www.sugarquill.net/goodshiprh/goodshipclip.movc (http://www.sugarquill.net/goodshiprh/goodshipclip.movc) TO SEE JKR SAYING IT. I BET THE EDITOR IS TO MUCH OF A ***** TO POST THIS, BUT HERE U GO. SCREW THIS SITE TO HELL. GO SUCK A DONKEYS *****. thankyou very much. have a lovely life. I hope Voldemort kills you and your whole ****IN family.
I'd like to know where in Sugarquill J.K.R. says that Ron and Hermione will get together. When I went to the full link, it wouldn't let me in :huh:.

Hi. I want to say I'm not one of those idiot posters who wants to flame you. But your site really needs to be shut down. It's practically converting people and that's just not right. Again I don't mean to flame you and I'm making sure that this mail is very nice so that you don't think that I am. I've visited your site many times and every single time I get angry. Ron is so thoughtful of Hermione, helping her when she needs it, talking to her about life and problems, having deep and meaningful conversations. I hate your site and everything it represents. It's gross. And everytime I visit I think so. Because we think it's gross, you should want to shut it down anyway. I hope you see the maturity in this letter and think long and hard about what you're doing. You shouldn't want to upset people. Thank you very much. Signed
Signed,
Hi, my name is "I hate your site but I visit it anyways then tell you I'm not gonna flame you even though I am..."

You are a stupid git. This is Rupert. Emma is mine and Dan doesn't even like her. We've been dating for a few years now. She thinks I am much better looking than Dan. She likes running her hands through my red hair. That's why I grew it out. She and I are going to get together in the movies too because JK thinks we have so much chemistry in real life. So that's all the proof you need, because I am Rupert. Do not e-mail me back.
From Australia :huh:?



Sorry, guys, but I had to do this. I mean, I hope the R/Hr shippers on here did not send any of this mail, because... wow.

[hpfan_08]

lol ya sum of those emails were pretty good but i still think that h/hr is just as possible as r/hr why do u stand so firmly on h/hr

[GryffindorGr]

Sorry, guys, but I had to do this. I mean, I hope the H/Hr shippers on here did not send any of this mail, because... wow.

What purpose is to show this? It just shows a shipping hate war between h/hr and r/hr. :( I think this has no bearing on who will get together just because a handful of shippers from opposite ships are very fanatical with no manners thus why they're probably anonymous.

ETA: I just peeked at the site, there were also some very kind R/hr shippers. It shouldn't be generalized that all opposing shippers are rude and unkind. It's a very romantic and sweet site. :)

[hpfan_08]

i agree i mean the title of this whole thread is who will fall in love with whom? but some of those postings were funny

[GrangerGal]

I just went to Surgarquill.com (or .net or whatever), and I'm sorry, but their "proof" of R/Hr is so speculative it's sad. I also went to www.harryloveshermione.com (http://www.harryloveshermione.com/) and after reading the hate mail they got, I had to laugh. These R/Hr shippers are dumb. I seriously hope none of the R/Hr shippers on this site have sent mail to the harryloveshermione site, because if you did, it says a lot about you. I mean, my G-d.

Sorry, guys, but I had to do this. I mean, I hope the H/Hr shippers on here did not send any of this mail, because... wow.[/size][/font]


Maybe we should stick to this debate. Those people may or may not be on this website arguing their points.

Personally I think the Hermony's proof is "speculative" but I would never say that it is "sad" the way you do. We need to face that all of our proof (H/Hr and R/Hr alike) is speculative because we are not JKR. We are all taking pieces of a story and trying to figure out what will happen in the future. Personally I was a bit offended by this. Let us try to be fair and stick to the debates on this thread instead of bringing in outside commentary. And let us try to keep the grammar lessons on the side because everyone makes mistakes. This is supposed to be fun! There was a time when many of us didn't want to come here b/c the air was hostile. It is finally back on track and we want to keep it that way!

Thank you.

[hpfan_08]

i agree with granger on the fact that the Surgarquill.com thing was out of line but it did show us a point of how out of line some comments can be and some of those emails can be used as examples of stuff to try and avoid to keep the forum unhostile because when it gets to the point where people are afraid to talk about something thats sad because this is ment to be a fun site where you can come to learn new information and have nice friendly debates

[clearacell]

Yes but she spends most of her research time with Ron in OotP and also the majority of the summer holidays too, then Ron and Harry go off on an adventure and Hermione follows both of them, so she spends more time with Ron overall.

The summer holidays were with the Weasley's. I'm assuming that she spent more time with Ginny and Mrs. Weasley than Ron alone at all. If he and Hermione DID spend a lot of time alone together, Mrs. Weasley would NEVER have thought that Hermione was dating Harry, because she would be secure enough at the thought of Hermione dating her son. The "evidence" here is kind of shady, but on top of Mrs. Weasley's reaction, we also had Hermione and Ginny walking into rooms together, sleeping in the same room, and we know that they helped Mrs. Weasley with stuff inside the house.

No she does take not of Ron a lot more than that in the books, when Hermione is not with Harry she is with Ron mostly and even Harry wanted to know where they had both been in one of the books and that was when they stated they had been in the library researching. It was Ron who noticed Hermione suddenly appearing in lessons during PoA too. Overall though I would say Harry and Ron have a 50:50 chance at the moment of gaining Hermione.

There are possibly 4 or 5 (major) places Hermione goes throughout the books. When she's somewhere she can't be someone else (except book 3 of course, I'll get to that). She goes to the Great Hall to eat, the library to read, the girls dorm to sleep, the common room to do homework/knit, Hagrid's hut, and after that anywhere else she goes involves going with Ron and Harry, but it is these places that she would most likely to be offscreen. Well, I'm forgetting the bathroom, but that's not that important (...or IS it...hrmm). Anyway, there were very few times I can think of that Harry asked the 2 where they have been, and even at those times it seems they were in the library, and we KNOW how Hermione is about the library because Harry finds that it is also know fun in book 4, so there isn't much getting-to-know-each-other time for Ron and Hermione. The most other offscreen interaction we see between them are arguements. Hermione WOULDN'T have a 50:50 chance of seeing either Harry or Ron alone because it seems that Harry is ALWAYS with Ron when they're at school and when Harry went to Quidditch practice or something, that is the time where Hermione and Ron are alone, and when they're alone I mean "library" or homework in the common room. They do sometimes talk to each other but a lot of the time the only way it is civil is when it's about Harry. We also gotta remember that when Hermione is offscreen, a lot of the time is that she is taking other clases than both Harry and Ron, so at those points she can't be alone with either of them. Ron noticed Hermione popping up in classes because to Harry it seemed too trivial...he was too busy thinking of the Grim and how he was gonna die.

Yes I agree and look at the way Ron becomes so jealous when ever Hermione talks about Krum, he is very worried and concerned for Hermione when Victor is concerned and in a way I think Ron might be justified in his concerns.

I'm a bit confused about the "concerns"...I think I broke a few neurons trying to find out what you mean :p . But speaking of Ron getting jealous when Hermione talks about Krum, what about when she talks about Harry? Ron obviously likes her, so wouldn't this be one more thing where he is jealous of Harry? We all know how shallow Ron is. He is jealous of Harry's fame, even though HE'S ABSOLUETLY THE ONE PERSON WHO SHOULD UNDERSTAND THAT HE IS FAMOUS FOR LIVING AFTER BOTH HIS PARENTS WERE MURDERED. Ron knows that Harry hates being famous, but Ron is still jealous. And yes, I've acknowledged before that he redeemed himself for this jealousy in book 4 after the pin-thrown-by-Harry-at-Ron's-head incident, but I'm making the point that Ron is shallow enough to be jealous of Harry's name coming out of Hermione's mouth.

Ron's deepest desire was to become a famous quidditch player well before Harry even new about quidditch or even the wizard world. Why would Ron be jealous of Harry playing quidditch, he was terrified of the sport when he first started and turned to Harry for support and help. If I remember in PS, Ron was excited for Harry when he heard about him becoming seeker and could not wait to tell others, he was hardly jealous. I mean he is so jealous that Ron risked sacrificing his life for Harry in PS during the chess game.

Ron has a range of jealousy, some of them bringing him to almost dispise Krum. In PS, there's no real evidence that Ron liked Hermione at that point. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary...but being 11 years old and all would account for that. Ron wasn't jealous of Harry being in Qudditch in book 1 because he knew that he was too young, and he was dumbstruck that Harry would be on the team in his first year. I might have gone a bit far in saying Ron was jealous of Harry's Quidditch abilities, because the only thing I'm going on at that point is the fact that Ron kept his desire to play keeper from Harry because he thought he would be teased. From this I would think that the only reason he ever kept this from Harry is due to him wanting to have the abilities he knows Harry has. That is pure speculation on reading the characters feelings on my part, so I may just be reading too much between the lines.

Anyway this might be interesting, does Ron owe Hermione a life debt, remember the devils snare, if it was not for Hermione's Lumous spell then Ron would have died. So in a way I see Ron repaying his debt to Hermione and depending up on whether he lives through it might make Hermione see him in a different light.

If that's the case then the trio owe each other a million life debts.

At the end of the day the magical relationship stands solely in the hands of JKR and who knows, love has no plan or design, it comes from no where, one day Hermione will wake up and realize that she is in love with someone, whether it be Ron, Harry, Neville (she does have a soft spot for Neville, that is something I have noticed through out the series, always protecting him on the sly) or even Seamus (his a muggle born like Hermione though yes that is a very weak reason to choose him) in the end Hermione will find the right person for her.

That may be the case, but I've already stated my views on why she can only be with either Ron or Harry. She is not pretty enough to disreguard the fact that Harry is her #1 concern...yes I said she's not pretty enough, we're not talking Emma Watson here...and yes if she were pretty guys wouldn't give a darn what she talks about (remember Fleur?)

Though I am leaning towards Ron/Hermione shipping lines here because Ron has never kept it a secret, that Hermione needs to lighten up and in PoA, GoF and OotP she actually started to do that and no doubt becoming more attractive in Ron’s eyes.

Yes, it is no secret Ron likes Hermione, but it is also no secret that Hermione admires (love or non-loving admiration, doesn't matter) Harry more than Ron. She lightens up from the influence from the boys, but she has had the same affect on Harry (her becoming his conscience/becoming more focused on schoolwork in book 5). Funny thing is she doesn't influence Ron so much. Hrm...some of Harry's rebellious personality going into Hermione...some of Hermione's morality going into Harry...it's almost like they're becoming ONE...

[Charmed Cheese]

What purpose is to show this? It just shows a shipping hate war between h/hr and r/hr. :( I think this has no bearing on who will get together just because a handful of shippers from opposite ships are very fanatical with no manners thus why they're probably anonymous.

ETA: I just peeked at the site, there were also some very kind R/hr shippers. It shouldn't be generalized that all opposing shippers are rude and unkind. It's a very romantic and sweet site. :)

Agreed. A moron is a moron no matter what the ship. Also, people like to pretend to be other shippers just to make the other ship look bad. Who knows what's real and what's not.

I've seen many Harmonians make comments just as dumb as the ones posted.

It's best to stick to debating the most credible and valid arguements from the opposing ship.

Yes, it is no secret Ron likes Hermione, but it is also no secret that Hermione admires (love or non-loving admiration, doesn't matter) Harry more than Ron. She lightens up from the influence from the boys, but she has had the same affect on Harry (her becoming his conscience/becoming more focused on schoolwork in book 5). Funny thing is she doesn't influence Ron so much. Hrm...some of Harry's rebellious personality going into Hermione...some of Hermione's morality going into Harry...it's almost like they're becoming ONE...

Several Points:

1) Hermione admires Harry more than Ron? It obviously is a secret because I don't recall Hermione saying that.

2) How do we know what's going on in Ron's head? How do we know that she's not Ron's conscience as well? Also, it was only a few times Harry heard her voice: it wasn't a constant and consistant occurence. Furthermore, what was important was what that voice was saying, not the fact he heard her voice. Hermione is usually right. It makes sense he'd look to her.

3) Hermione has influenced Ron greatly, especially in OotP. When Hermione tells Ron off for something ("Ron you can't order alcohol! You're a prefect!"), instead of yelling or laughing at her like he used to do, he becomes quiet, realizes she's right, and behaves accordingly without arguement. He's correcting a lot more of his behaviour thanks to her. When Hermione warns Harry about something, he yells at her, he ignores her, he snaps at her and only gives in when he realizes she might be right. I'm not denying Hermione affects him; she's a wonderful friend for him, but there's nothing extraordinary about her effect on him. Despite the subject of jealousy and romance, I believe Ron was a lot more receptive to Hermione than Harry was in the book. Ron supported Hermione's idea of the D.A. when Harry thought she was crazy. It seems like Harry was more connected with her because we see more H/Hr alone time than R/Hr alone time due to the narrator's limited perspective. Thus, H/Hr's bond is highlighted above Hr/R only because of what we get to see; not because their bond is tighter or more unique.

[sone]

Thanks Eno Imreh! Well said.

Harry also defends Ron in front of Cho. But Cho is not jealous of Ron and she doesn't criticize him either. Harry makes an example with Ron that he also has a parent working for the Ministry and he is not selling anyone out. This is also true of Ginny, Fred and George but Harryis closer to Ron than either of them. With that said, Cho criticizes Hermione, her tone is fierce when she brings this up. Harry responded angrily with Ron but when Cho brings up Hermione herself, he responds coldly in defending Hermione. Cho reacts to the comment and all he can say is "don't start crying again". What did I expect him to do? React angrily like he did when he brought up Ron, not coldly. Furthermore, it was Harry's fault that Cho was jealous of Hermione in the first place so I also expect him and Hermione (when she heard what happened at the tea shop) to clear the air, not let the jealousy linger. After all, Harry was helping Hermione out when she was getting hate mail, cold comments from Mrs. Weasley and being confronted by Viktor (which I might add was the cause of Hermione's actions and not Harry's). Of course Harry can and should defend Hermione but like I said, the tone and the way he says it is what gives it away. Harry knows exactly what he is saying and how he is saying it and he doesn't care how Cho takes it. The better question I think is what did people expect Cho to do? In the end, she was quite right. Harry will talk to Hermione, but he won't talk to Cho.

[hpfan_08]

i think that ron and hermione like each other secretly, because they are always at each others throuts. we all know a big hint at a crush is bickering, and they do do alot of that.
but i also think that harry likes hermione and when ron and hermione finally reveal there secrets about each other that harry is going to flip and get really mad at ron, because he wants harmione

[Nena3012]

I think JK gave us lots of clues for this one. Hermoine/Ron. Notice the way they're always fighting. And they do spend a lot of time together. I also think that Ron was jealous about Viktor liking Hermoine and all.

[Eno Imreh]

I'm sorry but Harry is relieved because he finally understands why Cho is angry, it's not because of 'after Hermione' if it would be so then the words would have to be differently. Cho's remark makes Harry understand the reason (the global reason ) it's that he finally understands the reason behind Cho's words. She understands that Cho is thinking that he is meeting other girls besides her on Valentines date. Now he understands that Cho doesn't think that she's special.

Actually GilyAnn, I agree with what you are saying here. "He (I believe you meant to say 'He', not 'She') understands that Cho is thinking that he is meeting other girls besides her on Valentines date." Perhaps I was not clear in what I was saying... Harry is meeting Hermione later that day, that is simply fact, and he says it. To him, it is no big deal, because Hermione is his friend, so why wouldn't he go meet her? Obviously not a smart thing to do, but he does not realize that. He is relieved to learn that Cho was thinking he was going to be meeting other girls, when in reality he is not, he is only meeting Hermione. Now, Cho most likely did not mean that Harry was actually going to meet anyone after Hermione, but he believes that is what she meant. Harry never puts two and two together - he does not understand that Cho is actually jealous that he is going to meet Hermione, because why should she be? Since Hermione is one of his best friends, he thinks it's fine to meet up with her. He understands that Cho doesn't think she's special because she thinks he's meeting other girls, he does not understand that it is actually because he's meeting Hermione.

[xray]

Let's look at some text: No, let's look at all the text that applies, not just a piece of text that you and sone think supports your argument (which it doesn't by the way, even in its massively contorted state).
"I've been meaning to ask you for ages… did Cedric — did he — m-m-mention me at all before he died?"

This was the very last subject on earth Harry wanted to discuss, and least of all with Cho.

"Well—no—" he said quietly. "There—there wasn't time for him to say anything. Erm . . . so . . . d'you . . . d'you get to see a lot of Quidditch in the holidays? You support the Tornados, right?"

His voice sounded falsely bright and cheery. To his horror, he saw that her eyes were swimming with tears again, just as they had been after the last DA meeting before Christmas.

"Look," he said desperately, leaning in so that nobody else could overhear, "let's not talk about Cedric right now. . . . Let's talk about something else. . . ."

But this, apparently, was quite the wrong thing to say.

"I thought," she said, tears spattering down on to the table, "I thought you'd u-u-understand! I need to talk about it! Surely you n-need to talk about it t-too! I mean, you saw it happen, d-didn't you?"

Everything was going nightmarishly wrong; Roger Davies's girlfriend had even unglued herself to look round at Cho crying.

"Well—I have talked about it," Harry said in a whisper, "to Ron and Hermione, but—"

"Oh, you'll talk to Hermione Granger!" she said shrilly, her face now shining with tears. Several more kissing couples broke apart to stare. "But you won't talk to me! P-perhaps it would be best if we just . . . just p-paid and you went and met up with Hermione G-Granger, like you obviously want to!"He says Ron and Hermione but Cho points out Hermione Granger. And even worse, she says this shirlly, a typical Hermione adjective, one that he hates.
Harry stared at her, utterly bewildered, as she seized a frilly napkin and dabbed at her shining face with it.

"Cho?" he said weakly, wishing Roger would seize his girlfriend and start kissing her again to stop her goggling at him and Cho.

"Go on, leave!" she said, now crying into the napkin. "I don't know why you asked me out in the first place if you're going to make arrangements to meet other girls right after me . . . how many are you meeting after Hermione?"

"It's not like that!" said Harry, and he was so relieved at finally understanding what she was annoyed about that he laughed, which he realized a split second too late was also a mistake.

Cho sprang to her feet. The whole tearoom was quiet and everybody was watching them now.
Why was Harry so relieved? What was it he finally understood? Cho was jealous because she thought Harry was meeting Hermione as a date afterwards. Harry laughs at these words albeit a split second too late The idea of him and Hermione is just plain funny to Harry. Harry and Hermione?! :lol:

Harry does not feel relieved at finally understanding what Cho was annoyed at until she said 'make arrangements to meet other girls right after me.... How many are you meeting after Hermione?' Earlier, Harry actually said that he was meeting Hermione, and thought nothing of it. He did not understand why Cho would care - not until she asks how many other girls he will be meeting after Hermione. Because of his cluelessness, Harry naturally believes Cho actually meant she thought he would be meeting more girls after Hermione, to which he was relieved, because obviously he wasn't. At no point in this text does it imply that Harry realized Cho was jealous of Hermione, and was relieved at that fact. He was relieved only after Cho asked 'how many are you meeting after Hermione?' :lol: Looks like lemmings to me :lol:


xray

[rjade829]

I think JK gave us lots of clues for this one. Hermoine/Ron. Notice the way they're always fighting.

You know...the more I think about it...the more worried I become. I understand perfectly the concept of young people bickering a bit or teasing each other when they have a crush. I'm 18 years old, I've had my share of crushes and I've seen other people's too. However, when I look at Ron and Hermione, I don't see their kind of bickering as the romantic kind (I mean seriously, "Don't be so pathetic, Ron" and "I'll sponsor you to shut up about SPEW"..). Yet sooooo many people do. This is starting to worry me because if R/HR do get together, I think I'm going to have to seriously examine my position as a normal human being. hahah :shrug: :p

[Charmed Cheese]

You know...the more I think about it...the more worried I become. I understand perfectly the concept of young people bickering a bit or teasing each other when they have a crush. I'm 18 years old, I've had my share of crushes and I've seen other people's too. However, when I look at Ron and Hermione, I don't see their kind of bickering as the romantic kind (I mean seriously, "Don't be so pathetic, Ron" and "I'll sponsor you to shut up about SPEW"..). Yet sooooo many people do. This is starting to worry me because if R/HR do get together, I think I'm going to have to seriously examine my position as a normal human being. hahah :shrug: :p

The bickering itself is not romantic. I think, at first, the bickering derived from the fact they both liked each other more than they wanted to (between the ages 11 and 13).

Now, I think the bickering is either done
-Out of habit (they don't really feel passionate about what they argue about, ie skiing)
-Out of frustration that they are bickering-Hermione is showing this. They both seem to want something more from the relationship...to move past the "bickering facade" because they know there's something more there.

Bickering and discord is not romantic. Coming out of bickering and discord to find harmony is what is romantic.

The more conflict, the sweeter the resolve.

[sone]

He says Ron and Hermione but Cho points out Hermione Granger. And even worse, she says this shirlly, a typical Hermione adjective, one that he hates. He never said he hated it and it is not a typical Hermione adjective, just merely one of them that is used when she is upset. In any case, yes Cho points out Hermione. It was Hermione who Harry said he was going to meet at noon at the Three Broomsticks with or without her. She is not jealous of Ron, she is jealous of Hermione because she believes and rightly so that Hermione is more important to him than she is. Hermione will always come first and Cho had a problem with that.

Funny Charmed Cheese, I see Harry and Hermione very similar to that. Not Ron and Hermione.

[esicardi]

JKR said (bold mine):

I make this hero—Harry, obviously—and there he is on the screen, the perfect Harry, because Dan is very much as I imagine Harry, but who does every girl under the age of 15 fall in love with? Tom Felton as Draco Malfoy. Girls, stop going for the bad guy. Go for a nice man in the first place. It took me 35 years to learn that, but I am giving you that nugget free, right now, at the beginning of your love lives.

Source:
http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/news_view.cfm?id=80

Now, does this look as the advice as a woman who believes in the "bickering=love" paradigm? I don't think so.

Also JKR said (same source, bold mine):

Harry. He really is the whole story. The whole plot is contained in Harry Potter; his past, present and future—that is the story. Harry came to me first and everything radiated out from him. I gave him his parents, then his past, then Hogwarts, and the wizarding world got bigger and bigger. He was the starting point.

It's all about Harry. Not about Harry and his friends, but about Harry.
So, why would JKR make an isolated subplot about R/Hr in this context? If Harry is not involved, it shouldn't be there. A trio love triangle of sorts makes much more sense in this context.

Finally on a side note:

And even worse, she says this shirlly, a typical Hermione adjective, one that he hates.


Where in canon does it say that Harry *hates* shrilly voices? :huh:

Bye!
:)
esicardi

[Charmed Cheese]

JKR said (bold mine):

I make this hero—Harry, obviously—and there he is on the screen, the perfect Harry, because Dan is very much as I imagine Harry, but who does every girl under the age of 15 fall in love with? Tom Felton as Draco Malfoy. Girls, stop going for the bad guy. Go for a nice man in the first place. It took me 35 years to learn that, but I am giving you that nugget free, right now, at the beginning of your love lives.

Source:
http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/news_view.cfm?id=80

Now, does this look as the advice as a woman who believes in the "bickering=love" paradigm? I don't think so.


No one is saying bickering=love. Harmonians claim R/Hr's say it, but for the most part, we don't.

Also are you comparing Ron to Malfoy??? Rowling is against good/evil ships. Ie no Hermione/Draco or Ginny/Draco.

That's not the same as two good people who make mistakes.


Charmed Cheese, I see Harry and Hermione very similar to that. Not Ron and Hermione.

But Harry and Hermione don't have a conflict to resolve. :p

[GryffindorGr]

Where in canon does it say that Harry *hates* shrilly voices? :huh:

It doesn't. But it's usually a negative adjective for describing a voice, instead of like, for example, melodious, sweet lilting voice, or deep, husky voice, etc:

http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/shrill

:)

[Mad-I Moody]

It's all about Harry. Not about Harry and his friends, but about Harry.
So, why would JKR make an isolated subplot about R/Hr in this context? If Harry is not involved, it shouldn't be there. A trio love triangle of sorts makes much more sense in this context.
By this reasoning, the Hagrid/Madame Maxime story shouldn't be in the books, Ron's crush on Fleur shouldn't be in the books, Hermione's relationship with Krum shouldn't be in the books...

What affects Harry's friends affect Harry. These 'isolated' subplots aren't 'isolated.' JKR ties the things that affect the people around Harry into Harry's story quite nicely. I think we can trust her to do the same thing with the R/Hr storyline.

[esicardi]

Charmed Cheese, my comment was directed to those R/Hr shippers who believe R/Hr bickering is due to their sexual tension, and that's the paradigm of a romantic couple, those who believe that *bickering* equals to *sparks* and *passion*. If you don't share that argument, it's OK, then my comment wasn't aimed for you.

GryffindorGr,
First of all, Hermione's voice is only shrilly when she's upset or excited, not all the time. And it's a pretty normal thing between girls, to sound *shrilly*when you scream. The negative connotation is not given in the books. Harry never says something like *I can't stand shrilly voices" or nothing in that vein, let alone *hate*. So far, the negative connotation is a subjetive thing that some readers see, but certainly not canon.

Mad-I-Moody,
I am not saying there couldn't be little details scattered through the book that are not related either to Harry or to the war plot. However Maxime/Hagrid and Ron-->Fleur, are hardly subplots on their own, unlike R/Hr would be if it happens.

[Heatherhobbit]

Wow...so much passionate debate here! I'm rather daunted by the sheer volume of the ship threads, so I expect my thoughts will just slip into oblivion but I just wanted to add my two pennies:

JK has said on the Hermione + Harry or Ron front that she thinks it should be fairly obvious what she has in mind by now. To my mind that can only mean Hermione and Ron will end up together - maybe not forever, but in the context of these books, at least.

Anyone who has ever been in love, or even just had a school-yard crush should be able to see what has been built up between H&R, I have seen nothing that points to there being anything more than a friendship between H&H. Hermione and Ron's bickering, and Ron's "issues" with Hermione's relationships is jealousy, and Hermione's exasperation over Harry's dealings with Cho are born out of nothing more than friendly concern. That's just my take on things :)

As for Harry...I don't think he will end up with Ginny, not now. Ginny's crush was little more than that, and although maybe one day when they are adults they might discover something between them (were there going to be books with them as adults, which there aren't) but not now.

He's certainly not going to be with Cho either. He was attracted to her, but I think her attraction to him was more out of lonliness and sadness over having lost Cedric, and Harry being the closest connection to him she could find - plus, she knew he liked her and probably just wanted to feel wanted. I think now they've both come to realise that it wouldn't work out (and that's not just because of Harry's hopelessness with girls).

I'm not sure that we'll see him end up with anyone, but if he does, my pet theory is Harry & Luna. She's a strange figure and has experienced being marginalised just like him. I think they have more in common than just having seen death.

Also, I like the idea of Ginny and Neville. Neville is becoming more powerful and more confident, and perhaps Ginny will begin to see him as more than just that silly Neville Longbottom by the next book. Neville is going to be a hero, I suspect.


Great ideas! That was more than 2 pennies! :tu: I agree with you about Ron and Hermione. A lot of people can relate to their relationship. But everyone experiences romance differently which is why this thread is on it's 30th version.

Don't be intimidated by these threads. There's some mean people, but most of us are nice. :cool:

[Discordia]

I'm sure the webmistress of the site will be happy to hear that something she poured all her passion for the pairing, enthusiasm and God knows how many hours of her free time into is handily dismissed as "revolting". You can join some of your fellow R/Hr shippers (http://harryloveshermione.com/extras/editedforstupidity/idiots.html) in feeling that way, as Kate has gotten many comments along those lines via e-mail and her guestbook. (And even though you didn't send the above comment to her personally, you are really no better than all the other idiots mailing her.)

As an aside, I've seen many rude and obnoxious comments on this thread, but Discordia, this has got to be the rudest. Don't like the site? Don't visit it. You won't hear me railing against the Sugarquill, although I have many issues with that particular site.
You know what, Dominique the subject was already closed but apparently you didn't take the time to read my last post. Rude? That's my opinion you don't lke so what? Who cares? I didn't like the site but I knew the rest of you would which is why I posted the site in the first place. To be honest I liked the fan art but you know that's I'm not partial to H/Hr in the first place. So maybe if you read what I posted afterwards you'll change your tune.

[Charmed Cheese]

By this reasoning, the Hagrid/Madame Maxime story shouldn't be in the books, Ron's crush on Fleur shouldn't be in the books, Hermione's relationship with Krum shouldn't be in the books...

What affects Harry's friends affect Harry. These 'isolated' subplots aren't 'isolated.' JKR ties the things that affect the people around Harry into Harry's story quite nicely. I think we can trust her to do the same thing with the R/Hr storyline.

Exactly. R/Hr already has many possibilities for plot and thematic purpose.

Honestly, who knew Hagrid's stolen motorbike in book 1 had a plot purpose?? ;)

[sone]

But Harry and Hermione don't have a conflict to resolve. That is because they have already solved it. They have had their bickering matches in the past, but they have started to go beyond that point now. The problem they have now is not so much a conflict, but....illumination. They make their "significant others" jealous because of their close friendship. Now Harry for certain assumes that is all there is, but what if it isn't? I mean, how many more jealous people will Harry or Hermione run into before they notice that something is odd in their relationship? That is just my opinion?

GryffindorGr, shrilly is a negative term, but nevertheless, it has never been described as something Harry hated. If anything all it shows is that person who has the shrill voice is usually upset like Cho and Hermione.