Snape's reaction in Goblet of Fire

[Chievrefueil]

I did a search for this topic, but only came up with a few offhand mentions of it in a thread about Snape in general. It certainly wasn't discussed in terms of its meaning as far as I could see.

This is the quote from GoF, after Harry returns from the graveyard at the Riddle House and is in the hospital wing:

"Look, I saw Voldemort come back!" Harry shouted. He tried to get out of bed again, but Mrs. Weasley forced him back. "I saw the Death Eaters! I can give you their names! Lucious Malfoy---"

Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape's eyes flew back to Fudge.

So why does Snape react that way? He must be startled. . .my suspicion is that he didn't know that Lucious Malfoy was a Death Eater. If true, then Lucious Malfoy likely doesn't know that Snape used to be one.

What does everyone else think of Snape's reaction to Harry?

[Megan J]

I think it might of been that Snape had one of those, "HAH I knew it all along!" thoughts. Lucius said that he was now on the Ministry's side of things but when Snape heard him mentioned as present for the Death Eater's congregation he was sure that Lucius was lying. He flickered his eyes because he didn't want to make too much of a scene in front of Fudge. If Snape said that Lucius really was a Death Eater, Fudge could think that Snape knew this because he is one too.

[Mrs Flamel]

Well, I think it's because Snape was in the graveyard, standing next to Malfoy. He worried that Harry would mention him next. Snape probably didn't want this info to get out in front of Fudge, because he wouldn't want the Minister to know he's a double-agent.

Guess it's obvious what Snape theories I subscribe to.

[hpfan_08]

I think that the DE know each other, I think it was more of a shock that Harry was openingly going to name them all, and feared he might say his name.

[Chievrefueil]

I think it might of been that Snape had one of those, "HAH I knew it all along!" thoughts. Lucius said that he was now on the Ministry's side of things but when Snape heard him mentioned as present for the Death Eater's congregation he was sure that Lucius was lying. He flickered his eyes because he didn't want to make too much of a scene in front of Fudge. If Snape said that Lucius really was a Death Eater, Fudge could think that Snape knew this because he is one too.

Yeah, that seems to make sense, too. Although, I don't think Snape was worried about Fudge thinking that he had been a Death Eater because shortly after that:

Snape strode forward, past Dumbledore, pulling up the left sleeve of his robes as he went. He stuck out his forearm and showed [the Dark Mark] to Fudge, who recoiled.

"There," said Snape harshly. "There. The Dark Mark. It is not as clear as it was an hour or so ago, when it burned black, but you can still see it. Every Death Eater had the sign burned into him by the Dark Lord..."


Well, I think it's because Snape was in the graveyard, standing next to Malfoy. He worried that Harry would mention him next. Snape probably didn't want this info to get out in front of Fudge, because he wouldn't want the Minister to know he's a double-agent.

That doesn't make sense, though. Assuming you're right and Snape was in the graveyard, he would know that Voldemort hadn't named him and Harry would have no way to know he was there (they were all wearing hoods).

[LaurenLeigh]

Snape probably didn't want this info to get out in front of Fudge, because he wouldn't want the Minister to know he's a double-agent.

I think I have to partly agree with this. One can only imagine what ridiculous (and possibly more dangerous) missions Fudge would want Snape to take on. Seems a bit risky (in my opinion at least) to put ol' Fudgie in charge of that or even let him in on it.

[silvery orb]

I think Lucius does know Snape used to be a DE because

- the Malfoys are always so buddy-buddy with Snape. And if he is spying on them, Snape definately wants all the DEs to know if he used to be one.

- Snape and Karkakoff knew the other was an ex-DE. Which leads me to believe they all knew each other.

- Everyone has a place in the magic party circle at the end of Gof. And Voldy certainly wasn't shy about calling the DEs by their name then.

Just my 2 cents.

[hpfan_08]

Yeah, that seems to make sense, too. Although, I don't think Snape was worried about Fudge thinking that he had been a Death Eater because shortly after that


I agree everyone knows he used to be, but only the order know he in a way still is


That doesn't make sense, though. Assuming you're right and Snape was in the graveyard, he would know that Voldemort hadn't named him and Harry would have no way to know he was there (they were all wearing hoods).


I was thinking that his name was not mentioned, but I couldn't go look it up.

[Hollis]

I interpreted Snape's look to Fudge to gage Fudge's reaction to the news about LV being back. When Fudge obviously didn't say anything, Snape shoves his dark mark under Fudge's nose.

As we all know from OotP, it takes a personal appearance from LV to convince Fudge.

[Chievrefueil]

I think Lucius does know Snape used to be a DE because

- the Malfoys are always so buddy-buddy with Snape. And if he is spying on them, Snape definately wants all the DEs to know if he used to be one.

- Snape and Karkakoff knew the other was an ex-DE. Which leads me to believe they all knew each other.

- Everyone has a place in the magic party circle at the end of Gof. And Voldy certainly wasn't shy about calling the DEs by their name then.

Just my 2 cents.

I appreciate your 2 cents. :) (And everyone else's.)

I disagree that Snape would want the DEs to know he used to be one of them, though. It would make them less likely to trust him now--when they know he betrayed Voldemort. Also, it says somewhere that only Voldemort knows who all the DEs are, so just because Karkaroff & Snape know of each other doesn't mean that the Malfoys would know of Snape.

[Beabria]

I think his reaction was related to the fact that he wasn't present at the meeting (I think he was the one who "has left [Voldemort's] service forever."). Maybe he was curious who was there. Perhaps he even thought Lucius had turned against Voldemort. Maybe that's why he favor Draco, because he had thought his father had been on his side in leaving Voldemort.

[Snape2008]

Snapes reation could be this . He was worried that He may have to kill his friend to keep his promise to Dumbledore. He may have been worried that Dumbledore would think he to was there in the grave yard. You also got to think this what makes everyone so sure Lucius is to be trusted himself. Snape and he are Friends. Sure Lucius is a heal but does he really want to kiss Voldemorts boots all his life.

[LaurenLeigh]

Sure Lucius is a heal but does he really want to kiss Voldemorts boots all his life.

Thats what gets me -- all these purebloods are bowing down to this half blood...their Lord and the type of people they would rather be rid of are one in the same. Ironic..

[Invaderkymm]

Well, I think it's because Snape was in the graveyard, standing next to Malfoy. He worried that Harry would mention him next. Snape probably didn't want this info to get out in front of Fudge, because he wouldn't want the Minister to know he's a double-agent.

.

Snape could not have been in the graveyard. Remember you can't apperate on Hogwart's grounds and Snape appeared at the door and in the foe-glass and helped Mcgonegall and Dumbledore to stupify Fake Moody/Crouch Jr.
Snape is one of those who, like Krakeroff, did not arrive at the burn of the mark.
Voldemort will believe (because Snape is "a supurb occlumense"-Lupin) that this is because he (Snape) is a spy for Voldemort inside Hogwarts.


EDIT: oh yes, the topic:
Snape reaction may have been to hearing the name, hearing the news or just generally trying to look surprised at having heard one or the other in the presence of Fudge. I'll have to think about it for a few weeks.

[Serpentina]

I think Snape and Lucius has an underground agenda in the backgrounds.
First: Lucius doesn't seem as a person who serves anybody else than himself. Even less a halfblood (he knows about the Tom Riddle-Voldemort thing, because he had the diary)
Then Lucius didn't mention the diary incident to Voldemort. Why not? Why did he want to restore the 16 year old self of the Dark Lord? Maybe it would have been easier to drive a 16 year old and not fully educated wizard especially knowing his little secret: namely that he's a halfblood?
I think Snape pretends to support Lucius in these ambitions, and that's the way he gains information.
Harry's statement would ruin this source of information. That little unintentional movement was an attempt to silence Harry. But of course he couldn't do in front of Fudge.

[silvery orb]

Is Snape's partialtiy for Draco a put on or for real? If he spies for the Order, then he can't seriously be friends with Lucius...or can he?

Maybe Draco reminds him of himself at that age (*shudders*) and he thinks he can take him under his wing and reform him...but does he?

I guess it depends on which part of his personality dominates, Snivilus or Professor Snape....

Thats what gets me -- all these purebloods are bowing down to this half blood...their Lord and the type of people they would rather be rid of are one in the same. Ironic..

Just like Hitler insisting on creating an Aryian population when he clearly wasn't. The madness of hate makes you convince yourself of anything.

[HGHPRW637]

I have a question, I thought... I don't know if it was the 4th or 5th book... but they said that Voldemort will kill any DE that turns on him, so how is Snape always protected from getting killed? And how is he a spy for Dumbledore, is Voldemort that dumb that he doesn't see Snape isn't loyal to him?

[LouisaB]

I wondered about the reaction too. I thought perhaps he was taken in by Malfoy's facade he put up for everyone else and did not truly know until that moment that he was still a death eater.

Knowing Voldemort was back, Snape must have realised that he would be asked to spy again and that movement could have been because Malfoy had been his closest contact in Voldemort's inner circle in the past and he had realised that he could use him again, whilst before then he might have been unsure as to whether he would be able to spy as his contact had supposedly turned over a new leaf.

His sudden movement could be a reflex action to realising that his services as a spy would be called on again if he had not been sure before.

[sirius723]

I have a question, I thought... I don't know if it was the 4th or 5th book... but they said that Voldemort will kill any DE that turns on him, so how is Snape always protected from getting killed? And how is he a spy for Dumbledore, is Voldemort that dumb that he doesn't see Snape isn't loyal to him?
well, snape is an occlumens, so he's able to block LV from reading his mind. also, i believe that LV thinks that snape is spying on dumbledore, so snape could just tell LV that he couldn't come to the graveyard without arousing dumbledore's suspicion.

as to snape's reaction, i think he knew that lucius was a death eater, but maybe he didn't know that he was still loyal to LV. hearing harry say his name out loud confirmed that lucius was indeed still following LV.

[Fury]

Of course Snape took this as though it was a shock. The Death Eaters are back... and they kill former Death Eaters... aka Snape. Snape knows he is doomed. So does Karkaroff... that is why Karkaroff wanted Snape's help... then ran away the night the Mark burned.

[HGHPRW637]

well, snape is an occlumens, so he's able to block LV from reading his mind. also, i believe that LV thinks that snape is spying on dumbledore, so snape could just tell LV that he couldn't come to the graveyard without arousing dumbledore's suspicion.

.

Oh! Ok, thanks for clearing that up for me! :tu:

[Norbertha]

I think it is possible that Snape might be worried that Harry has seen him in the graveyard. The official story is that Snape used to be a death eater, but left before Voldemort's downfall. The death eaters think he's still one of them. What nobody knows except the Order, is that he is a spy. So by showing the Dark Mark to Fudge, he risks nothing, because Fudge alreday knows thet Snape had been tried and found not guilty, since he left the Death Eaters years ago. But it would be risky if Harry was to tell Fudge that he had seen him there, since Fudge doesn't know he's a spy.

[Desdichado]

Snape could not have been in the graveyard. Remember you can't apperate on Hogwart's grounds and Snape appeared at the door and in the foe-glass and helped Mcgonegall and Dumbledore to stupify Fake Moody/Crouch Jr.
Snape is one of those who, like Krakeroff, did not arrive at the burn of the mark.
Voldemort will believe (because Snape is "a supurb occlumense"-Lupin) that this is because he (Snape) is a spy for Voldemort inside Hogwarts.

J.K. has done a good job of making us think on this one. Through Hermonie, she has pounded into our brains that one can not just apperate in and out of Hogwarts. On the other hand, J.K. has left open that one can use a portkey to not only travel in and out of Hogwarts, but to travel to and from the headmasters office. Could Snape of used an unauthorized portkey? Is the Dark Mark a kind of portkey? Don't forget the rumors that Snape might be a vampire. We know how fast they can move in most Vampire stories.
I am undecided, since there are so many options to where Snape was that night. Was he afraid that Harry might call his name out as one of the Death Eaters that was present? Was he denial that maybe all this Dark Mark stuff would just pass over, and Harry's detailed discription made him believe it all was really happening?
All I know, is that I can't wait to find out.

[Tane]

There are probably other ways of getting in and out of Hogwarts and it all depends upon what magic is being used, wizard magic or another type of magic from another species which is why Dobby and come and go from Hogwarts.

I think the key thing here is that Snape looked into Harry's eyes to see if indeed Harry had seen all the death eaters including himself there. It would explain why Snape turns to Fudge probably a little concerned at the fact that Harry did see everyone that night and can name them all.

What intrigues me is why Fudge did not say well go on then name them for us so that we can go and pick them up before they cause anymore trouble but he did not why?

Did Snape look at Fudge and instruct him not to go any deeper just in the same way as Harry warned Snape about Sirius being captured by Voldemort in the department of mysteries.

Perhaps it was a look of fear from both Fudge and Snape because if Fudge was a death eater then he would have been present in the circle. It is funny how after that Fudge began to deny everything Harry and Dumbledore stated.

[Fury]

There are probably other ways of getting in and out of Hogwarts and it all depends upon what magic is being used, wizard magic or another type of magic from another species which is why Dobby and come and go from Hogwarts.

I think the key thing here is that Snape looked into Harry's eyes to see if indeed Harry had seen all the death eaters including himself there. It would explain why Snape turns to Fudge probably a little concerned at the fact that Harry did see everyone that night and can name them all.

What intrigues me is why Fudge did not say well go on then name them for us so that we can go and pick them up before they cause anymore trouble but he did not why?

Did Snape look at Fudge and instruct him not to go any deeper just in the same way as Harry warned Snape about Sirius being captured by Voldemort in the department of mysteries.

Perhaps it was a look of fear from both Fudge and Snape because if Fudge was a death eater then he would have been present in the circle. It is funny how after that Fudge began to deny everything Harry and Dumbledore stated.

I do think Fudge was a former death eater. One of his many secrets. He hates to talk about Death Eaters cause in truth he fears them and Voldemort. Knowing that if they find him, they could kill him... just for not returning to Voldemort. Same for Snape... same for Karkaroff.

[SpAzZz553]

Well, I think it's because Snape was in the graveyard, standing next to Malfoy. He worried that Harry would mention him next.

I agree, I think that he probably thot that Harry would bust him and then maybe Ddore would think its from this time, and then wouldnt trust him anymore, thinking he's still a death eater.

[soccergoddess24]

i agree with hpfan_08:tu:

i also have a question that was discussed in another thread, but i think it might have gotton closed...if snape felt the mark burn on his arm, wouldn't he tell DD, and then DD might have the DE's and stopped them from doing anything? and also find voldemort? because the DE's obviously know where to apparate to and when to do it, so wouldn't snape tell DD where and when so DD could put a stop to everything?

[Snape2008]

Maybe that is why Snape was surprised to hear Lucius was still serving Voldemort or like Bellatrix they refused to believe he was a Mudblood. That right there is why Snape switched side most likely. The head of Slytherin house taking orders from a half blood or quarter blood wizard. Snape may have discovered he was not a pureblood.

[Asara]

I hope we find out soon whether Snape was at that graveyard or not. Maybe Snape moved because he wanted Harry to shut up. After all, Fudge is like Malfoy's pet minister and maybe not the best person to accuse him to. Snape was thinking ahead and didn't want more ways for Harry to be discredited...but who knows what Snape really thinks....

[HGHPRW637]

Maybe that is why Snape was surprised to hear Lucius was still serving Voldemort or like Bellatrix they refused to believe he was a Mudblood. That right there is why Snape switched side most likely. The head of Slytherin house taking orders from a half blood or quarter blood wizard. Snape may have discovered he was not a pureblood.

I think Snape left for a better, more noble if you will, reason than that. I don't think he left because, "Oh he's not pureblood, I'm not gonna listen to you anymore!". I think that he left because... he wanted to be a better person, well that sounds corny. Let me just leave it at; He left for more reasons than finding out that Voldemort was half-blood.

[kaopunk]

I definately don't think Snape was in the graveyard.

I think Snape's reaction was from that fact that he didn't want Lucius to lose his "position" in the MoM. I think Snape uses Malfoy to gather information and he would not want to lose his source.

[HPEnthused]

I do think Fudge was a former death eater. One of his many secrets. He hates to talk about Death Eaters cause in truth he fears them and Voldemort. Knowing that if they find him, they could kill him... just for not returning to Voldemort.

Ooooooo, I like that theory. That would explain somewhat Fudge's actions. But I don't think Snape has the same fear. I think Snape is definately a double agent, but I still think there is a hidden agenda there that we don't know about. I also think that Snape will jump in front of and will take a fatal hit for Harry. In all his hate and all his nastiness there is something that keeps Snape protecting Harry when push comes to shove. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

[Masterofdarknes]

Hi!I'm new here but I don't think all the De's knew each other by name because kakaroff said in the 4th book while he was on trial that the (I dont remenber exact words)that they worked secretly together and hardly new each others name of course he could be lying but maybe Snape didnt know about Lucius being a death eater
just my 2 cents

[Sevenegrus]

I think even as we know not all DE knew each other, Snape did know of Lucius being one, maybe not because he really DID know it, but by his behaviour, isn't it obvious after all? there are some people who could surprisinly turn out to be DE, but I don't reckon that's Lucius case.

I think Snape's reaction was due to all the underground story he has, all the things people suspect about him and, of course, the mistery to why Dumbledore trusts him. I think his reaction has to do with that, and his mission for the order. Besides, him being part of the order, brings him closer to Harry, which I think is what he is trying to avoid. He knows -assuming that he is really a true member of the order, and does not bare any hidden intentions- that being in the order leaves him and harry fighting on the same side, and I also think that there will be some developing of that relation in the next to books. Or at least, that's what I hope, some sort of extreme situation that will bring harry and Snape closer. I believe Snape's reaction is a reflection of how confused he feels around all this Dumbledore supporters that always see him as "the man who was a DE" and the mission he is doing for them

[PKissiah]

I think that the DE know each other, I think it was more of a shock that Harry was openingly going to name them all, and feared he might say his name.

It clearly states in the books that the DE do not know who everyone else is. Voldemort wanted it that way. However, I find it hard to believe that Snape didn't know that Malfoy was a DE. More than likey, he thought it unwise for Harry to name someone who Fudge thought so highly of. I do think Snape was in the graveyard that night. It would have been hard for him not to be. His absence would have been noted, and he would have been no more use to the Order. He would then in essence be on the run from Voldemort himself. Snape can be petty, mean, and wicked, but when it comes to Dumbledore, he is faithful (in my opinion).

[Mrs Flamel]

I guess to clarify what I'd said earlier:

There's lots of argument about whether Snap was in the graveyard. it is possible, even if difficult. Consult The North Tower (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/thenorthtower/nt16.shtml) if you want an argument that he could have been there. I honestly think it doesn't really matter for the plot whether or not he was, but to me his reaction in the hospital wing seems to indicate he was there.

There was nothing to lose by showing Fudge his Dark Mark. Everyone knows he was a Death Eater. But he probably wouldn't want Fudge to know he was still acting as a spy. And he may have had unwarranted paranoia that Harry had recognized him under the hood.

I would also be shocked if Snape didn't know Malfoy was a Death Eater. In fact, I think their friendship is what his spy status hinges on. If he wasn't concerned about Harry naming him, maybe he didn't want the relationship he has with Lucius to be jeopardized. PKissiah, I think you described the situation quite well. We'd get along well on the Snape=double-agent threads!

What intrigues me is why Fudge did not say well go on then name them for us so that we can go and pick them up before they cause anymore trouble but he did not why?
I am not averse to the idea that Fudge may be an ex-Death Eater, but I don't think that's a necessary assumption to explain his inaction. Obviously, he didn't want to believe Harry, so he convinced himself he was lying.

[MoodyHarry]

Snape's reaction was due to the fact that he was worried that Harry would reveal information about Death Eater Snape that could be damaging. We know Snape was a DE. We know that he 'renounced that'. Fudge knows that Snape was a DE. Remember, Dumbledore vouched for Snape during a trial (if I am not mistaken). I think Snape was just worried about information being told by Harry that could cause problems for Snape. Snape is not foolish - he knows self-protection very well.

[Snape2008]

Snape reaction aside. Here is my theory as to why Voldemort has not killed Snape if he thinks he has betrayed him.
He doesn't know for maybe he cant read Snape's mind. My guess is all the other Death Eaters are not mentally strong. Except for Lucius and Snape. All the rest are thugs and been munched on by Dementors for years. What if Voldemort can't read Snape's mind. So he doesn't quite know if he is a traitor.
Could Snape also have a hair sample of every single D.E. He could make some polyjuice potion and spy by using the appearance of amother D.E. member. If Voldemort can't read his mind he may not be sure i it Snape or the actaul Malfoy or Wormtail.
Voldemort is powerful but give Snape some potion and sneaky credit.

[Nimue]

I was also under the impression that Snape was in the graveyard that night. The quidditch flield, where the last task took place is located away from the castle so it is possible that Snape could have left the grounds and apparated. Snape DID mention to Dumbledore that the Mark was becoming clearer- when Dumbledore was using the pensieve we saw Snape say that. So he knew there was a possibliity of being called by LV and he probably was prepared to go.

I don't think many people know that Snape was a spy. Lucius and the others probably think he used excuses like they did to avoid Azkaban. So slipping back into his role would be easy, though very dangerous.

I think Snape was surprised when Harry started naming names and wasn't sure if he was recognized as being there. I don't think they want Fudge to know he is still a spy, or preceived as an active DE. LV did greet some DEs by name but I thought it significant that he acknowledged some by merely nodding at them.

[Tane]

I think Snape was surprised when Harry started naming names and wasn't sure if he was recognized as being there. I don't think they want Fudge to know he is still a spy, or perceived as an active DE. LV did greet some DEs by name but I thought it significant that he acknowledged some by merely nodding at them.That is great point to highlight as Snape might be terrified of Fudge realizing that he was there especially when you consider that Fudge would have thrown him in Azkaban or sentenced him to the kiss of death. Fudge might have even brought in Dumbledore on charges of harboring a criminal if Harry had implicated Snape being present, Fudge is not tied to believe anyone if they say Snape is still spying he might just say death eater and leave it at that.

I am still unsure though as to whether Snape was afraid of being caught and Fudge/Dumbledore finding out he was there or whether he was looking at Fudge for some very quick support concerning the matter as Harry did not know Snape was spying at this point in GoF.

[kaz]

"Look, I saw Voldemort come back!" Harry shouted. He tried to get out of bed again, but Mrs. Weasley forced him back. "I saw the Death Eaters! I can give you their names! Lucious Malfoy---"

Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape's eyes flew back to Fudge.

I cant remember know but I think Potter was comming around to say Snapes name :) Ill double check the pensieve chapter, but im sure Snape would feel embarassed and on the verge of killing Potter if he shouted in then

[Zimphella]

I think that Snape was giving Fudge a look that said, "See Voldermort has come back." I don't think that Snape was one of the death eaters and I'm sure he knows that Lucius Malfoy is one, I mean who doesnt?

[tonks181]

Voldemort maintains a degree of confidentiality when it comes to his death eaters, but that doesn't go to say that none of them know the identity of the others. Clearly a top notch death eater like Lucius Malfoy will know the identity of his fellow death eaters. But how many know of Malfoy's presence in the circle remains to be sen.
Snape's reaction in the GOF , i guess, was mainly due to fear of exposure in front of the Minister for Magic. I don't mean that Snape's working undercover for Voldemort and is actually deceiving Dumbledore with his nice guy act, but that at a time when 'Voldemort-awareness' was running high, he le to be reminded that he was once a death eater or that he is one(though not really)

[Mrs Flamel]

I don't think many people know that Snape was a spy. Lucius and the others probably think he used excuses like they did to avoid Azkaban. So slipping back into his role would be easy, though very dangerous.

I think Snape was surprised when Harry started naming names and wasn't sure if he was recognized as being there. I don't think they want Fudge to know he is still a spy, or preceived as an active DE. LV did greet some DEs by name but I thought it significant that he acknowledged some by merely nodding at them.

Yes, we know from Karkaroff trial that not all Death Eaters know each other (to keep them from ratting on each other like he did!). Not all the Death Eaters may have known Snape was a member, and even fewer would have known he was a spy. I disagree with you though, in that Lucius probably knew Snape's status. It's too convenient that he's on the board of governors and Snape is a teacher for them not to work together in this whole spying capacity. I think Snape feed lots of info to Malfoy. Which is maybe a reason why he wouldn't want Malfoy caught? Oh wait--was Malfoy still on the board at the time. I could be wrong then.

In the graveyard, it may be that Voldemort only mentioned those whose membership was common knowledge among the group. (Malfoy, Crabbe & Goyle, Lestanges...) Now of course, after Karkaroff trial, Snape position as "ex-"Death Eater wasn't so secret. But it may be that while a lot of people heard about what went on in that trial, it wasn't common knowledge among the wizard world, so Voldemort still didn't want to name Snape in front of all the Death Eaters.

Upon further consideration:Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape's eyes flew back to Fudge.
When Harry looked at Snape, then Snape looked back to Fudge. I think this means that Snape wasn't looking at fudge when he made his "sudden movement." I don't think he was trying to communicate with him--in fact, it sounds as if he looked toward Harry.

[Nimue]

Yes, we know from Karkaroff trial that not all Death Eaters know each other (to keep them from ratting on each other like he did!). Not all the Death Eaters may have known Snape was a member, and even fewer would have known he was a spy. I disagree with you though, in that Lucius probably knew Snape's status. It's too convenient that he's on the board of governors and Snape is a teacher for them not to work together in this whole spying capacity. I think Snape feed lots of info to Malfoy. Which is maybe a reason why he wouldn't want Malfoy caught? Oh wait--was Malfoy still on the board at the time. I could be wrong then.

In the graveyard, it may be that Voldemort only mentioned those whose membership was common knowledge among the group. (Malfoy, Crabbe & Goyle, Lestanges...) Now of course, after Karkaroff trial, Snape position as "ex-"Death Eater wasn't so secret. But it may be that while a lot of people heard about what went on in that trial, it wasn't common knowledge among the wizard world, so Voldemort still didn't want to name Snape in front of all the Death Eaters.I don't understand what you mean about Snape's status. You mean as an active Death Eater or a spy?

I do see your point. Remember when Sirius and Snape were trading barbs in OotP? Sirius said something about Snape being Lucius' "lap dog". That didn't seem to bother Snape, probably because he IS deceiving Malfoy and using him to gather information (or spread dis-information). So now that I reconsider, it does seem that Snape was concerned more about Fudge's reaction to Malfoy's name being mentioned as one of the Death Eater's present. If they had chosen to arrest him too early, then it would have been harder for Snape to do his job.

Now that Malfoy is enjoying his holiday in Azaban, it makes me wonder if it will be more difficult for Snape to play double spy.

Oh, forgot to mention. It appears that Fudge DIDN'T know that Snape was a Death Eater. Nice to know the Minister is so well informed, lol.

[Fury]

Ooooooo, I like that theory. That would explain somewhat Fudge's actions. But I don't think Snape has the same fear. I think Snape is definately a double agent, but I still think there is a hidden agenda there that we don't know about. I also think that Snape will jump in front of and will take a fatal hit for Harry. In all his hate and all his nastiness there is something that keeps Snape protecting Harry when push comes to shove. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

I am glad you liked my theory. I like my theories... this is the best.

[The Black Adder]

Oh, forgot to mention. It appears that Fudge DIDN'T know that Snape was a Death Eater. Nice to know the Minister is so well informed, lol.

Yes, in PoA Fudge tells us that he was Junior Minister in the Department of Magical Catastrophes back during the First War, pg 208 US paperback. While Snape was identified as a former DE and spy in Karkaroff's trial, I imagine that kind of sensitive information remained classified and on a "need to know" sort of basis.

[Hollis]

I think that Snape was giving Fudge a look that said, "See Voldermort has come back." I don't think that Snape was one of the death eaters and I'm sure he knows that Lucius Malfoy is one, I mean who doesnt?

Zimphella has it right as far as I interpret that passage-- As I said back on page 1, Fudge knows that Snape was a DE, why else would Snape then have no fear of showing Fudge his Dark Mark in the next passage from the book?

I think his reaction was related to the fact that he wasn't present at the meeting (I think he was the one who "has left [Voldemort's] service forever.")

I'm betting that "the one who has left [Voldie's] service forever is Igor Karkaroff ... he is the one who runs away. As we know in OotP, Snape is _very_ proud of the fact that he can still go to DE meetings.

[Mrs Flamel]

I don't understand what you mean about Snape's status. You mean as an active Death Eater or a spy?
...

Now that Malfoy is enjoying his holiday in Azaban, it makes me wonder if it will be more difficult for Snape to play double spy.

Oh, forgot to mention. It appears that Fudge DIDN'T know that Snape was a Death Eater. Nice to know the Minister is so well informed, lol.

By Snape's status I meant as a double-agent. And The Black Adder is right--Fudge may not have known about Snape's having been a DE. Like I said before, I don't think we can assume that what Karkaroff and Dumbledore had to say in Karkaroff's trial about Snape is common knowledge among anyone who wasn't there. But now Fudge sure knows!

I too wonder how Malfoy's vacation in Azkaban will affect Snape, but I think it's general consensus that Malfoy won't be there long.

[pottermad]

I don't think that Snape was in the graveyard with Voldemort that night with Harry. Remember, V. says something like (I don't have the book with me, so I can't give page references or exact quotes): 'One, who is too scared to return' (that's Karkaroff), 'One who I believe has left me for ever...he will be killed.' That's Snape. And when he talks about his faithful DE...that's young Barty Crouch.

Perhaps Snape darts that quick look at Harry because he is afraid Harry will mention his name. Snape doesn't know what Voldemort and the DEs told Harry. They may have told him that his own Potions Master at school was a DE! He's afraid that Harry may reveal some secrets of his past life with the DEs.

Or, another theory is that until now he has not really believed that Harry met the DEs. Does Harry mention anywhere when in Snape's presence that he has seen the DEs as well as Voldemort? So when Harry starts to list the DEs he saw, maybe Snape realizes that Voldemort is truly back and restored to his full powers (though the Dark Mark burning on his arm would have told him that, too).

Or more simply, since the DEs do not seem to know who is a Death Eater unless a Death Eater releases that infomation, perhaps Snape is just startled to learn that Malfoy is a Death Eater?

[Chievrefueil]

Or more simply, since the DEs do not seem to know who is a Death Eater unless a Death Eater releases that infomation, perhaps Snape is just startled to learn that Malfoy is a Death Eater?
There are a lot of good theories here, but this is what I think.

[SyirenSlytherin]

i'm one of the people who are convinced that "the one who i believe has left me forever" is Ludo Bagman, which is why he really took off at the end of the third task and that Snape was either the man next to where the Lestranges would stand or he wasn't expected to appear, though i'm leaning in the 'he was there' direction.

even if he couldn't apparate there, there is still the possiblility of getting off the grounds, using an unauthorised portkey, or using floo powder to get off the grounds and then apparate. Barty's little speach would have given Snape enough time to get back to Hogwarts i think.

for me it seems that the people LV named were the ones he was particularily annoyed with, perhaps the ones involved at the world cup, and by naming them they now know that if a DE is cought and gives names, there names will be known. a way of adding extra incentive to their cause, so to speak.

i think Snape was startled and in a moment of irrational thought, thought that Harry might have recognised him. i also think that Snape acted on his own accord to go to the graveyard, DD being a judge was probably not in a position to be consulted before doing so.

[The Gurg]

It could be that Malfoy and Snape have had a conflict in the past and Harry mentioning Malfoys name bought back memories.

[Mrs Flamel]

for me it seems that the people LV named were the ones he was particularily annoyed with, perhaps the ones involved at the world cup, and by naming them they now know that if a DE is cought and gives names, there names will be known. a way of adding extra incentive to their cause, so to speak.


Excellent assessment! It makes lots of sense to me! If you read my other posts, you'll know I'm in agreeance with you on all you've said. I've wondered why LV mentions some people by name in the graveyard and not others, and this is a good possibility. Of course, the DE's in Azkaban wouldn't have been at the world cup, but everyone knew they were DE's by then anyway, so no need to hide their identities.

[wavy]

I don't think Snape was in the graveyard and I don't think even if he was he would have been worried about Harry seeing him, because V never used his name.

That said, I think the reason for him starting is one that could go a million ways.

The Lucius Malfoy thing could be a red herring. Snape could have been worried about the mere fact that Harry was naming names. DD said at some point that he had many spies, so its not impossible that Snape is working in concert with another Death Eater and was worried that his contact person might be disclosed. His movement might have been a response to Harry's "I can name names" and it just looked like he was responding to Lucius' name, since Lucius' was the first one mentioned.

His whole reaction could be red herring to make people believe Snape might have been there in the graveyard, as JKR's way to try to create some mystery around her 3 missing DEs, which seems to fairly obviously involve Snape in some way (either coward or traitor - I don't think which is which is so clear).

We also have really NO idea about the relationship between Snape and Lucius, except that Lucius spoke highly of him to Umbridge and that Sirius considered Snape Lucius' lapdog when they were in school. It its not a red herring, Snape could have believed Lucius wasn't going back to Voldemort or didn't expect him to be there for that first meeting for some reason and was surprised he was there or he could have be using Lucius for information and didn't want Harry to disclose his name to Fudge.

Of all the little mysteries in the novels, I think is one of the most perplexing.

[trickcy]

Well, Severus Snape, according to me wasn't there in the graveyard. So, he does not know that Voldemort mention LM's name. So, maybe he was worried that Harry Potter knew about all the DE and might mention his name in front of Fudge? And Fudge might think he was still with Voldemort.

[anabel]

Snape would have felt his scar burn and recognised the summons from Voldemort but he probable wasn't expecting it. He couldn't apparate from Hogwarts to check it out and he had no idea that it had anything to do with Harry. When Harry told everyone, Snapes reaction was: so it was true, he is back! He was probably dreading going back to the perilous doubleagent role because the only way he could stay alive was to convince Voldemort that he was spying on Dumbledore for Voldemort and not the other way around.

[MoodyHarry]

I've wondered why LV mentions some people by name in the graveyard and not others, and this is a good possibility. Of course, the DE's in Azkaban wouldn't have been at the world cup, but everyone knew they were DE's by then anyway, so no need to hide their identities. That's a good point. In the books, it is mentioned that the DE wear masks, and in fact, I think in the graveyard scene, they were wearing masks. So why bother hiding your identity if V is just going to say your name out loud to everyone in the first place. I always thought that was odd.

But maybe at this point, it doesn't matter. But then they do not have to wear masks...unless it was to hide from Harry.

[Mrs Flamel]

Well, in the graveyard scene, the DE's were just wearing their old "uniforms." They got the signal, grabbed the old masks, and showed up. I wonder if some of them were surprised at being "outed" in front of everyone.

Maybe that explains Snape's surprise? Not that he was surprised to learn that Malfoy was a DE, but surprise that Harry had recognized any of them. In a normal meeting, no names would have been named, and no one would have been recognized behind their masks. Snape would have been surprised to hear that LV had named people. Of course, this only works if Snape wasn't there, but I have no problem with that.

[Discordia]

So why does Snape react that way? He must be startled. . .my suspicion is that he didn't know that Lucious Malfoy was a Death Eater. If true, then Lucious Malfoy likely doesn't know that Snape used to be one.
I think there's a pretty good chance that Snape knew Lucius was a DE. If you were friends with a guy liek Lucius you'd know. Of course they knew, about the other being a DE. If they were such good frineds there's not doubt that they both knew.

I think that Snape reacted the way he did becasue Fudge probably wouldn't have been very likely to believe him which he didn't. Instead he though that Harry was just some raving lunatic seekink attention which is a load of **** since Harry's never craved attention. But who would Fudge really have believed? The man lining his pockets with gold or the one trying to condemn his benefactor?

[Mrs Flamel]

^True. It's possible that Snape simply felt Harry was making an unwise move. Harry discredited himself to Fudge by calling Lucius a DE.

I have to say that I'm enjoying everyone's ideas here! There's lots of possibilities.

[Beabria]

^True. It's possible that Snape simply felt Harry was making an unwise move. Harry discredited himself to Fudge by calling Lucius a DE.


Hmm... that's a good point. Sometimes the simplest explanation is the best.

[egonza44]

Hi everyone,
This is my first time, so I hope it goes well. First of all, sorry for my English. I'm from Spain and English is my second language.

About Snape, I think that he was scared of Harry discovering his secret. :huh:
Because, in my opinion, Snape is playing in the two bands.
In one hand, he's actually a DE but he's doing a job for the order.
In the other hand, the rest of the DE don't suspect of him because they think that they have a spy in Hogwarts.

I don't know if I've expressed myself very well.... :upset:

[Chievrefueil]

Hi everyone,
This is my first time, so I hope it goes well. First of all, sorry for my English. I'm from Spain and English is my second language.

About Snape, I think that he was scared of Harry discovering his secret. :huh:
Because, in my opinion, Snape is playing in the two bands.
In one hand, he's actually a DE but he's doing a job for the order.
In the other hand, the rest of the DE don't suspect of him because they think that they have a spy in Hogwarts.

I don't know if I've expressed myself very well.... :upset:
Welcome. Your English is very good, so don't worry about that--it's much better than my Spanish!

So, you think Snape was worried Harry found out he is a spy? Do you believe that Snape is working more for the Order or for the DEs, or do you think that Snape is playing each side equally?

[egonza44]

Well, I think that Snape is working for the Order. He was a DE but something happened in the past that made he changed his mind.What happened? I don't know. It's another interesting doubt.
But my doubt is: "if Snape was a DE and right now he's not one of them, why does he have a so great relation with the Malfoys? Because I suppoused that DE are like "mafia" (I don't know if it's like that in English), you can't go back to your normal life so easily.
So my conclusion is that Snape is working for the Order as a spy in the DE, to know all the progresses that they make. But at the same time the DE think that Snape is a spy in Hogwarts.
Although, this make me think that: what is Snape telling to the DE to make them think that he's a spy? Because he has to provide them with some information, hasn't he? :evil:

Maybe somebody can answer this question. :blush:

[rotsiepots]

Like many others have said, it's very, very unlikely that Snape didn't know Lucius was a Death Eater. There were Death Eaters together during the First War, so unless they both walked around with paper bags on their heads, it's unlikely that they weren't aware of each other's presence.

I also agree that Snape was trying to discourage Harry from making an unwise move, but thought better of it in the presence of the Minister. Further, if Snape was at the "rebirthing" after all (and that's a big if), he may have been frightened of being incriminated.

Interesting observation. :tu: :D

[Mrs Flamel]

egonza44, we've talked a lot about how Snape may be balancing his possible double-agent role in Do you think Voldemort knows that Snape is a spy? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=16339) thread. It's really long, I know, but there's lots of ideas.

[egonza44]

Thanks, Mrs Flamel. I'll try to read it complete.
I find this option about Snape very interesting, but I'm sure that the solution of JKR will be explosive.

[SquibOnline]

Maybe he suddenly realised that snape was a death eater

[Fleur du mal]

I've said it elsewhere before, but I think it might also fit in here - the sorting hat said that Slytherin is the place where you find your true friends, and that's what Snape and Lucius Malfoy are in my eyes, real friends. That doesn't mean that they do everything together or have the same opinion about things (to the older folks round here - has anyone of you seen Tequila Sunrise?), but they do care about the other one.
When Harry accused Lucius, Snape was somehwat shocked and looked at Fudge to see whether that one believed the story, and if he had, Snape could have warned Lucius, or did something else to aid him. Don't forget, the Malfoys were the first to come back when Voldemort fell the first time, and I've always thought that they had some sort of insider source, telling them "It's over, once and for all! Hurry up if you don't want to land your bums in prison!". And it works vice versa, Snape is protected by Lucius' good connections to Voldemort (mark the graveyard scene, where Lucius is submissive, yet far better off than the rest of the treacherous lot - "my slippery friend" might have been sarcastic, sure, but no punishment, no open threats - Voldemort did not mess around with him, and he knows why. Lucius is a good ally, with great connections and the means to buy everyone who can be bought with money).

[egonza44]

Maybe Snape get surprised when he heard Malfoy's name because he thought that Malfoy wasn't a DE. I guess that Snape knew that Malfoy had closed ideas to LV, but perhaps he thought that this was the only relation between them.

[Fleur du mal]

Snape is a very smart man, he was the one to design the Potions riddle in PS, he's good in logic. He would have needed to be very blue-eyed, naive, literally dumb to think Lucius was NO Death Eater, once he had accustomed to the fact that Voldemort was back in the first place!

[atherella]

I'm sure Snape knew Lucius was a DE. I just happened to re-read through this part last night with my son, and one thing Snape mentions when showing Fudge his mark is that the mark was used not only for the DL to call his DE to him, but also as a way for them to recognize each other. That seems to contradict what we've heard about LV keeping the DE's identities secret from one another.

Here's the exact quote, just in case anyone wants it.
Page 710 - Am. Hardcover
*snip*"... Every Death Eater had the sign burned into him by the Dark Lord. It was a means of distinguishing one another, and his means of summoning us to him."

[Lilly Evans]

Hmm...I think it depends on if the reaction was caused by the fact that he heard that Voldemort is back or that Harry mentioned Lucius Malfoy.

If it had been because LV is back, he probably got a huge shock...maybe he was scared that He would come after him, or shocked that Harry survive yet again...

Or maybe he was just shocked that Lucius Malfoy would be there, maybe he thinks that Lucius suspects that Severus is not loyal anymore and would kill or punish him. Or maybe he was anticipating Fudge's reaction to hearing that one of the greatest wizards who gives money to the Ministry is in fact a Death Eater...

[Mrs Flamel]

atherella, I think their using the Dark Mark to identify each other is not an open identification. You'd never see it unless it was shown to you. I think it was used more like proof of membership, password, or secret handshake. If you needed to show another person that you weren't lying about being a DE (i.e. you're not tricking them or spying on them), you could show them your Mark.

[Fleur du mal]

If I get this thing about the Dark Mark right, it only shows when Voldemort either touches it, or - lighter - when he's powerful. As his powers were nearly destroyed when cursing Harry, it might be that it wasn't to be seen for some time, so it wouldn't make a proper evidence in court, when potential Death Eaters were taken there. Otherwise Sirius could have showed his arm to prove his innocence, right? Plus - only having it doesn't say much, probably, if somebody WAS under the Imperius Curse, they could have got it then, involuntarily.

[Mrs Flamel]

Fleur, I think you're right about the Mark fading while LV was gone. Karkaroff's comments about it becoming clearer in GoF seems to indicate this. The DEs definately had advance warning in GoF that LV was coming back. I don't think, though, that people would get it from being under the Imperius Curse. It seems like it can only be given by LV himself, since he has the ability to communicate with them. (I could be quite wrong, though.)

[Lord_Talon]

Maybe Snape was trying to see Fudge's reaction of Fudge's buddy being named. Fudge always seem to defend Lucius, from what I've seen.
Perhaps the sudden movement was a reaction to Voldemort's name being said, later in OotP he chastises Harry for saying the Dark Lord's name.

Later!
Lord Talon

[LadySylvia]

I definately don't think Snape was in the graveyard.

I think Snape's reaction was from that fact that he didn't want Lucius to lose his "position" in the MoM. I think Snape uses Malfoy to gather information and he would not want to lose his source.

I've always wondered about this . . . why Snape tended to show so much favoritism toward Malfoy. And why Dumbledore allowed him to get away with it.

[atherella]

I've always wondered about this . . . why Snape tended to show so much favoritism toward Malfoy. And why Dumbledore allowed him to get away with it.

One theory I've read about that is that Snape considers that LV may be watching him in some way (occlumency or some other way) and favors the children of DEs so that LV will see that and consider that he is still on their side. Of course, that all ties in with the theory that Snape is a double agent. I don't know if I believe it yet or not, but it makes sense if you read Double-00 Sevie: (http://www.redhen-publications.com/Double00Sevie.html) . Just one of many possibilities, I imagine.

Here are a few things Jo has said that relate to what you mentioned.

SF: Now, how do you think Goyle and Crabb, and this is a silly question but
as you know one of the most awful things in the world, and I know we feel it
when we're young, is injustice

JKR: Yes

SF: When something is unfair it makes us so angry and one of the things that
always makes me upset on Harry's behalf is how people tell lies about him.
We know that he's very brave and he's actually saved the magic world and yet
each time it's as if he has to start at the beginning

JKR: Start all over again that's right

SF: And Dumbledore knows how good he is and he knows how bad, the fathers
are deatheaters, for example, of Crabbe and Goyle.

JKR: Dumbledore, um, I don't want to say too much on this because you may
find that it gives too much away but Dumbledore is a very wise man who
firstly knows that Harry is going to have to learn a few hard lessons to
prepare him for what may be coming in his life so he allows Harry to do an
awful lot of things he maybe wouldn't allow another pupil to do and he also
unwillingly permits Harry to confront a lot of things rather than protect
him from but as people who have finished Order of the Phoenix will know
Dumbledore has had to step back a little bit from Harry in an effort to
teach him some of life's harder lessons

Why does Professor Dumbledore allow Professor Snape to be so nasty to the students (especially to Harry, Hermione, and Neville)?

JKR - Dumbledore believes there are all sorts of lessons in life; horrible teachers like Snape are one of them!

Edit - Oh, we're getting way off topic here. I forgot what thread we were in for a minute. As for Snape's reaction, I'm mighty curious about it myself. I just re-read that part again two nights ago with my son, and it was interesting because even he wanted to know why Snape made that sudden movement. It's curious. :huh:

[Mrs Flamel]

Maybe Snape was trying to see Fudge's reaction of Fudge's buddy being named. Fudge always seem to defend Lucius, from what I've seen.


Again, I don't think Snape made a sudden movement to look at Fudge. It says he made a movement, then looked back at Fudge. Which means he had to have looked away from Fudge in order to go back. Since we're hearing this from Harry's viewpoint, it seems most likely to me that Snape's sudden movement was toward Harry.


One theory I've read about that is that Snape considers that LV may be watching him in some way (occlumency or some other way) and favors the children of DEs so that LV will see that and consider that he is still on their side.

In OotP, 24, Snape explains to Harry that Hogwarts is well-protected and that the people inside are protected from external Legilimency "attacks." He tells Harry that "time and space matter" for it, but of course, (as usual!) the normal rules don't apply to Harry and LV's connection. If LV is keeping tabs on Snape (and no doubt he is to a certain extent), it must be some other way. (I would suggest Lucius, though he has no reason to waltz into the school anymore. However, if Draco had any complaints about Snape, that would certainly make it back to Lucius and LV.)

[Fleur du mal]

I doubt that Voldemort would give too much when an obviously spoilt kid, who's son he ever be, was complaining about their head of house. I mean, when Snape gave Draco detentions for hexing Neville for example - I don't think Lucius would even DARE to bug the master with that sort of ****. If Snape favours Draco, there must be another reason, plus he has ALWAYS favoured him, long before Voldemort's return.

[negaprion]

Someone posted that Snape reacted because LV had named names. I think that this is the actual reason. I also don't think that Snape was or is a double agent or that he was at the graveyard. He is the one that LV was talking about having left forever. I do think that Snape is still a spy for DD but on the Death Eaters, not LV. I don't think that DD would send Snape back since LV knows about him and will kill him. It will be interesting to see if Snape will become as protected and "useless" to the Order as Sirius was now that LV can act in the open.

The question then is, why did LV name names. The reason the Death Eaters wore masks was to hide their identities. Snape may or may not have known that Lucius was a DE, but Karkaroff didn't. Suspecting and knowing for sure are two very different things. You'll notice that he only named the ones who had been cleared by the ministry. He didn't name anyone who had been unknown to the ministry. I think that this is one of his ways of punishing them. He knows that none of the DEs can be trusted fully. If one of them is caught, the named ones will be ratted out immediately. This will also bind the named ones back to him more closely. He is essentially saying to them that they had better make sure he wins this time, or they will be in Azkaban when it's over.

[Fleur du mal]

There's one or two flaws in that theory, negaprion :)
The reason the Death Eaters wore masks was to hide their identities. This can be only half true, for example there seemed to be a fixed order how to stand in the circle - if the present had no clue who it was who was standing beside them, how would they line up? "Oi, I'm always standing next to the midget with the pointed hood, and on the other side's the lanky bloke with the dirty fingernails!"? I don't think so!
Then there's the Ministry scene - they obviously know all the names of their companions, Lucius commands them. He says things like "Crabbe, Rabastan, you go there -" - how would Crabbe and Rabastan know with whom to pair up? And so on?
How is it called when people organise themselves in secret societies and meet in >...<, you know, when only so and so many are in one tiny group, they do know each other and do everything together, but they couldn't give away their larger group under torture or so? Know what I mean? I'd say the Death Eaters are organised like that, not because the Ministry would have tortured them (well, thinking of Crouch sr., perhaps they have), but because Voldemort could have imagined that his minions aren't exactly loyal (somebody around here once posted the line "If you want loyalty, recruit Hufflepuffs" - I love that bit!). But to get somewhere, you need a minimum of knowledge, otherwise complicated operations won't work out.
I think the hoods are a sort of inscenatory device, like with the KuKluxClan, they're meant to intimidate the victims even more and to make sure that, in case somebody could escape, they won't be able to accuse the Death Eaters. On gatherings like the one in GoF, they also add to the solemn atmosphere, "Master's back!", but I don't think they have much more personal use for the Death Eaters. If Harry (who has met him like three times in his life) can recognise Lucius' quite characterisitc drawl, everybody else could as well, hooded or not.
I do think that Snape is still a spy for DD but on the Death Eaters, not LV. I don't think that DD would send Snape back since LV knows about him and will kill him. Okay, Voldemort might have a twisted personality and be very secretive and all, but don't you think that he would have informed his Death Eaters about possible or probable spies and traitors? It might well be that Snape has no direct contact to him, only to Lucius or so, but either Lucius believes him to be a true confidant, or he won't tell him important stuff anyway, right? Snape is an Occlumens meaning he can keep others out of his head, but not intrude himself just like that, he needs a wand. If he was pointing his head on his mate Lucius and tried to attain information like that, he'd be dead in a heartbeat, I don't reckon that Lucius would say, "Hey, what are you doing there, old joker! Stop it, that's tickling me!"
Snape may or may not have known that Lucius was a DE, but Karkaroff didn't. I wouldn't bet my money on that. First of all, it would be pivotal WHEN this trial had taken place. Was it before Voldemort fell or after? And if it was after - then Lucius name had probably been cleared already, and Karkaroff would have been gambling with his luck to accuse a prominent, popular and influential member of the magical community like him. You've seen the reactions when it was about Bagman, and how Fudge shrugged off Harry's accuse, he got nearly angry when Lucius' name fell. Maybe Karkaroff would have named him to save his own skin if all other possibilities had gone down the drain. His accusations kind of "rise", he starts with Dolohov, who has been imprisoned (this could mark him as the "easiest" one of the following), Rosier's already so dangerous that he died fighting rather than give up, Rookwood seems to be a mighty man within the ministry and as for Snape - that's a desperate last try, Crouch has just told him that he'll be returned to Azkaban. Why hasn't he named him before, along with Travers and Mulciber? And if Crouch had persisted some more, whose names would have come next? No, I don't think that it is an evident that Lucius' name did not appear in that trial.
He knows that none of the DEs can be trusted fully. If one of them is caught, the named ones will be ratted out immediately. This will also bind the named ones back to him more closely. He is essentially saying to them that they had better make sure he wins this time, or they will be in Azkaban when it's over. In this respect I wholeheartedly agree. Yes, he isn't even interested in the fate of his minions down in the basement, why bother, he can retrieve them anyway. He's broken into Azkaban once, he can do so again. But once they've been sentenced, there's no way back, and especially with Lucius, that's been a very smart move. When he recruited these people, they were young, possibly careless and easier to rule and command. Now, they've built up lives, careers, families, why give that up when things are running smoothly, Lucius has had a very good position and might by now not regard himself as anybody's servant any longer. If Voldemort was drowning, he shouldn't rely on Lucius to throw out the lifebelt :evil:

[trickcy]

If Snape is loyal to Voldemort, he may have been shocked to hear Harry telling Malfoy's name and he may have meant to warn him. He probably looked at Fudge to see whether he believed Harry.
However if he is loyal to the Order, he may have been warning Harry to not say much, as he suspected that Malfoy may try to bribe Fudge.

[Starlight]

First of all, it would be pivotal WHEN this trial had taken place. Was it before Voldemort fell or after?

Me thinks it was after. DD says that Snape turned spy before Voldemort's downfall, therefor it must've been after. Also, I guess Karkaroff wouldn't have risked naming names if he didn't think it was all over and he could get away with it.

and as for Snape - that's a desperate last try, Crouch has just told him that he'll be returned to Azkaban. Why hasn't he named him before, along with Travers and Mulciber?

If this hearing was after Voldemort's downfall, maybe Snape was already teaching at Hogwarts? Naming a DE who's right under Dumbledore's nose. He was probably expecting the same reaction he got from naming Rookwood. But then I guess that doesn't explain why he didn't name him before, unless he thought Snape was working undercover or something.

[Fleur du mal]

I don't know... It is striking how badly communication works in the magical community, isn't it? At Bagman's trial, there was a lot of audience, so we can assume that they were there at Karkaroff's as well. In this trial, Snape has been declared a spy for Dumbledore - what has happened with all those people who have heard that? Did they walk home and forgot? They would have told somebody, wouldn't they, and if it was for mere gossiping. And if they have - why doesn't Voldemort know by now? He has had ways to get things out of Bertha Jorkins that she did not consciously knew herself anymore, how much easier would it be to attain information that is public? There are lots of other occasions where you cannot but wonder "Why does nobody know this?" "Why don't they make this public?"
Voldemort is a halfblood, and Dumbledore knows, EVERYBODY who went to school with him knew - Tom Riddle, poor, but brilliant, grown up under terrible circumstances in a muggle's orphanage. Tell people that infamous Lord Voldemort is that poor boy of old! We get to learn that Voldemort is looking for followers among the old pureblooded families - but would they submit themselves to somebody that they'd consider to be inferiour to themselves? It would be so easy to sabotage Voldemort's plans in this respect nowadays, and we've seen how devastated Bellatrix was when hearing Harry's remark.
All this secrecy and silence is playing into Voldemort's hands. And we shouldn't assume that in the magic world would be less gossiping, when seeing how Harry is treated over and over again by his fellow students, they're even worse than muggle tabloids!

[Mrs Flamel]

Ya'll really should take all this to the "Does Voldemort know Snape is a spy" thread. Dumbledore's comments at Karkaroff's hearing are one of the biggest reasons I have come to the conclusion Snape is a double-agent, because we shouldn't assume Voldemort doesn't know what Dumbeldore thinks of Snape.

Yes, Karkaroff trial was after LV fell. It says so. It also says lots of people were there. Now, they may have been told to keep what happened in the hearing to themselves--but come on. Bagman's trial also had lots of people, but it was just a different atmosphere. And yes, Snape was teaching at Hogwarts a couple months before LV fell.

Back to Snape's reaction... Karkaroff says that he doesn't know who all the DEs are. He could be lying of course, but that tactic makes sense. It is true that many do know each others' identities. It could be on a need-to-know basis, and by now, lots of them have worked together and have needed-to-know. It's true though, Fleur, that the friends tended to line up next to each other, so there must have been some knowledge of each other to do so. It's possible they wear masks to hide their identities in case they were found out. But I doubt Voldemort was in the habit of openly naming everyone who was there--I trust Karkaroff (on that one statement only), because it makes sense to me.

[Chievrefueil]

If Snape is loyal to Voldemort, he may have been shocked to hear Harry telling Malfoy's name and he may have meant to warn him. He probably looked at Fudge to see whether he believed Harry.
However if he is loyal to the Order, he may have been warning Harry to not say much, as he suspected that Malfoy may try to bribe Fudge.Snape makes a sudden movement when Harry names Malfoy. Harry looks at Snape and sees Snape's eyes dart back to Fudge. I doubt the sudden movement had anything to do with gauging Fudge's reaction to Malfoy being named as a DE. If he was warning Harry, why would he look back to Fudge before making eye contact with Harry? To me, it seems like he's startled for a second, but quickly regains his poise.

Also, several people have said that Snape was teaching at Hogwarts before Voldemort's downfall. This isn't true. Snape straightened up slowly and turned to look at [Umbridge].

"Now. . .how long have you been teaching at Hogwarts?" she asked, her quill poised over her clipboard.

"Fourteen years," Snape replied. His expression was unfathomable.Since Harry is now 16, he has been teaching at Hogwarts since one year after Voldemort's fall.

(Go Sox!)

[Fleur du mal]

Harry is fifteen in OotP, but otherwise, you've got a valid point there...

[legallybrunette]

I agree with the earlier post that Snape is a red herring for the missing DE. It seems to easy, given JKR's history of twists that Snape is in deed 100% evil and will be killed when LV finds out he's a spy.

Snape has to be careful and guard his reaction. The GoF moment catches that quick cover up.

[egonza44]

Snape could make that movement in order to avoid Harry's look. Because if he was in the graveyard Harry could remenber it when their looks cross each other. :cool:

[trickcy]

Snape makes a sudden movement when Harry names Malfoy. Harry looks at Snape and sees Snape's eyes dart back to Fudge. I doubt the sudden movement had anything to do with gauging Fudge's reaction to Malfoy being named as a DE. If he was warning Harry, why would he look back to Fudge before making eye contact with Harry? To me, it seems like he's startled for a second, but quickly regains his poise.

Also, several people have said that Snape was teaching at Hogwarts before Voldemort's downfall. This isn't true. Since Harry is now 16, he has been teaching at Hogwarts since one year after Voldemort's fall.

(Go Sox!)

Maybe, he didn't want Fudge to notice it. (Though, I doubt Fudge would ever notice anything) And, yes, I agree with you.Guess I missed that point there. Maybe he was startled because up till then, he never believed the whole thing??(I don't REALLYthink so, but you never know?

[Godric16]

I believe that when Voldemort's name is mentioned in front of a DE, that Voldemort anger rises because most people don't like him. I believe this rise in anger from Voldemort causes the Dark Mark on the DE's arm to twinge quite like Harry's scar does.

[subtle science]

I do find Snape's sudden movement to be one of the more intriguing little bits in the novels--it's dropped in there and left without any further explanation, and yet it does seem to matter, despite its being so minor.

I agree with those who point out that the sentence seems to indicate that Snape reacted first to Harry--and then he looked to Fudge. I think he was about to stop Harry--since Harry's naming of Malfoy was like hitting the jackpot: Malfoy is in tight with the Minister, who either doesn't suspect a thing about Malfoy or is more corrupt than we know, but all indications are that Snape maintains close ties with Malfoy as a fellow DE and Malfoy is Snape's most likely information source about DE/Voldemort activity.

The subsequent look to Fudge: to gauge his reaction; it's Snape regaining control and realizing he should check whether or not Fudge believed Harry before he took measures to quiet the boy--which would only draw more attention to Malfoy's name and the situation. Personally, I think Fudge is completely clueless: he seems to lack any perception in the novels--I don't think he has any idea about Malfoy's real identity; I don't think he had any idea about Snape's until Snape gave him the tutorial on Dark Marks--and I don't think he still has any idea that Snape is a spy.

This seems to be a moment when Snape almost slips in his spy composure and quickly re-estimates.