Who will fall in love with whom? v40

[LilypadLollipop]

shohra, i completely agree!!!
great answer :clap:

What about Harry's jealously when Cho was with Cedric was he in love or did he only fancey her which can be said for Ron and Hermione they fancey each other[/QUOTE]

hm... maybe not that part :p

[GilyAnn]

If Ginny is to the love of Harry's life, why was she an afterthought:

From jkrowling.com:
Fred and George have red hair because Ron does; in other words, I created Ron as a character first, then invented his brothers and sister.

That means very little.

Sienna

Actually it means way of a lot more. Better than thinking that Ginny is an afterthough why don't you asked Why did Ginny had to be a girl? Why Ron wasn't the seventh son? Because it seems to me that JKR had to make Ginny a girl and you know with 7 boys she would have made a much better case for the legend (although it still applies to Ginny) with a son instead of a daughter. This seems like one of those things that JKR just had to do, like does endless old lovely british stories where the orphan marries his best friend sister. :eyebrows:

Gily Ann

ETA: Neither of those small titbits of information mean anything. Generally speaking the hero’s love interest is one of the main characters of a book, but yes plots can change. (Having said that, JKR has told us that she has had the whole plot/ structure figured out from the beginning with only a few changes around GoF needed to keep the series on track. In addition, family members are usually created to give characters background and not necessarily as part of the story proper. However, given the importance of the Weasley Family to the plot, one would think that their creation would have been important as far as supporting family members goes).

Why do Harmony shippers get the impression that Harry has to end up with a main character? BTW Ginny can become one, specially with that brush with Moldyvoldy. The Weasley's are an important family on this series but you actually didn't expect for JKR to come up with all of them at the same time. Do you?

[LilypadLollipop]

Actually it means way of a lot more. Better than thinking that Ginny is an afterthough why don't you asked Why did Ginny had to be a girl? Why Ron wasn't the seventh son? Because it seems to me that JKR had to make Ginny a girl and you know with 7 boys she would have made a much better case for the legend (although it still applies to Ginny) with a son instead of a daughter. This seems like one of those things that JKR just had to do, like does endless old lovely british stories where the orphan marries his best friend sister. :eyebrows:

Gily Ann

ditto

[shohra]

Yes, if you believe in what JKR has stated.
No she stated if the quote is true that they are to young to be in love but not that they cant fancy each other

shohra, i completely agree!!!
great answer :clap:


THANK YOU

[LilypadLollipop]

what i find interesting is that everyone is now expected to be in love at 14. who says that fancying someone in your early teens can't lead to a successful marriage or love??!! heron is not going down because j.k. said that she doesn't believe that people can be in love at 14, never is the word fancy mentioned.

p.s. this is directed towards no one.
p.p.s. i have never been so serious in my life :p

[rjade829]

Hey, just a quick question- why is Neville/Ginny called HMS Signs?

[Melcb98]

Hey, just a quick question- why is Neville/Ginny called HMS Signs?
X-Ray made it up, I don't remember the exact reason, but you can ask him.

[EricaM]

Actually it means way of a lot more. Better than thinking that Ginny is an afterthough why don't you asked Why did Ginny had to be a girl? Why Ron wasn't the seventh son? Because it seems to me that JKR had to make Ginny a girl and you know with 7 boys she would have made a much better case for the legend (although it still applies to Ginny) with a son instead of a daughter. This seems like one of those things that JKR just had to do, like does endless old lovely british stories where the orphan marries his best friend sister. :eyebrows:

I'm guessing that Ginny had to be a girl for the whole 'crush on the great and good Harry Potter' for 'Tom Riddle Chamber of Secrets' plot of book two.

[McBeth]

Hey, just a quick question- why is Neville/Ginny called HMS Signs?

My only guess is because they've got the same astrological signs - they're both Leos. But as this can apply to Harry/Ginny as well, I don't really see the point.

[Anakin Solo]

Actually it means way of a lot more. Better than thinking that Ginny is an afterthough why don't you asked Why did Ginny had to be a girl? Why Ron wasn't the seventh son? Because it seems to me that JKR had to make Ginny a girl and you know with 7 boys she would have made a much better case for the legend (although it still applies to Ginny) with a son instead of a daughter. This seems like one of those things that JKR just had to do, like does endless old lovely british stories where the orphan marries his best friend sister. :eyebrows:

Gily Ann

ETA:

Why do Harmony shippers get the impression that Harry has to end up with a main character? BTW Ginny can become one, specially with that brush with Moldyvoldy. The Weasley's are an important family on this series but you actually didn't expect for JKR to come up with all of them at the same time. Do you?
I think you guys are reading a bit too much into Ginny being the only girl...

Harry has to end up with the main lady, or either the person he ends up with becomes the main lady, because he is the main man, and his g/f should be the biggest person in his school age life.

[LilypadLollipop]

I think you guys are reading a bit too much into Ginny being the only girl...

Harry has to end up with the main lady, or either the person he ends up with becomes the main lady, because he is the main man, and his g/f should be the biggest person in his school age life.

i don't think so. why can't he and hermione just be best friends. if he and hermione end up together, he's just the stereotypical heroe winning over the girl. and that is definately no fun!

[delemtri]

I think you guys are reading a bit too much into Ginny being the only girl...

Harry has to end up with the main lady, or either the person he ends up with becomes the main lady, because he is the main man, and his g/f should be the biggest person in his school age life.

This is pure silliness.

[mrs_bombadil]

My purpose was to show that the original ‘evidence’ given re Hermione’s family was meaningless just as the assertion that the afterthought comment completely negates the possibility of Ginny being the LI is meaningless.

Neither of those small titbits of information mean anything.

I notice you didn't answer my question, so I'll get around to repeating it after I provide a few additional comments.

Just because you assert that the "small tidbit" I presented doesn't mean anything, doesn't make it so. I provided 3 very recent quotes showing that Hermione's family has taken even more of a backseat than was planned.

The 2 examples are also very different. One discusses, briefly, how part of the creation grew. The issue I am focusing on is how part has diminished--that Hermione’s family has gone from backseat to virtually non-existent and JKR says it's "too late" to include them.

If Harry marries Hermione, her family will become his. Despite the fact that should be important on its own, it is additionally troubling to me because this would be the family that the orphan who grew up in an abusive household would join. His future in-laws would seem to be quite relevant, imo. In the execution of the story, the family that eventually becomes Harry’s should take some prominence shouldn’t they? If Hermione is to be so supremely important to Harry, how can her family be so unimportant?

So, I will quote myself:

Hermione's family has become expendable and I don't see how that is consistent with harmony's theories. Please explain to me how they could be?

Any harmonian is invited to respond...

[LilypadLollipop]

to quote Mrs Bombadil: (can't work the quoter thingy)
If Harry marries Hermione, her family will become his. Despite the fact that should be important on its own, it is additionally troubling to me because this would be the family that the orphan who grew up in an abusive household would join. His future in-laws would seem to be quite relevant, imo. In the execution of the story, the family that eventually becomes Harry’s should take some prominence shouldn’t they? If Hermione is to be so supremely important to Harry, how can her family be so unimportant?

my thoughts exactly. if everything is focused on harry, wouldn't they want to show the family that will become his?

[delemtri]

I don't agree that the fact that Ginny came after Ron makes her unimportant. There are a number of other things that came after Ron that are very important, including the characters I listed before, the prophecy, etc. If I remember correctly, JKR said that she envisioned Harry first and then Ron and Hermione (his sidekicks - as she's said) right afterwards.

[Anakin Solo]

i don't think so. why can't he and hermione just be best friends. if he and hermione end up together, he's just the stereotypical heroe winning over the girl. and that is definately no fun!

It's been fun in most stories for the past 4000 or so years

[delemtri]

It's been fun in most stories for the past 4000 or so years

Doesn't mean anything.

[GilyAnn]

I'm guessing that Ginny had to be a girl for the whole 'crush on the great and good Harry Potter' for 'Tom Riddle Chamber of Secrets' plot of book two.

Exept that any other character could have served that purpose as Harry's story is so well known and in book 2 he even had men being fans.


I think you guys are reading a bit too much into Ginny being the only girl...

Harry has to end up with the main lady, or either the person he ends up with becomes the main lady, because he is the main man, and his g/f should be the biggest person in his school age life.

No I'm sorry we are not reading too much. JKR is the one who's emphasizing that over and over again. We have a number of times of JKR repeating that in the books and then because off course we didn't know :whistle: JKR felt the need to remind us once again in her website adding up that generations part. We are not reading too much JKR is reminding us constantly of that fact. Oh and not for anything JKR decided to expand Ginny's character book 5 and on and as it stands nobody has the lead on the main lady business since Hermione is classified as the sidekick just like Ron. We are still on Harry's story.

Gily Ann

ETA: my thoughts exactly. if everything is focused on harry, wouldn't they want to show the family that will become his?

Why do you think we have the Weasley's. :p

By this logic of importance, Should I assume that Voldemort isn't realy important since he wasn't created at the same time that Harry was. Dumbledore, Harry's parents? None of those people matter because they weren't created at the same time that Harry was. :wow:

[Anakin Solo]

This is pure silliness.

So you disagree that your boyfriend or girlfriend should be the most important boy or girl

[WhoAmI]

So you disagree that your boyfriend or girlfriend should be the most important boy or girl

No, I think that they are disagreeing with Harry has to end up with the main girl.

[FredFancier]

And according to Jk they are all in love with the wrong poeple like harmonians keep repeating so which is it .Does JK think in love as the real thing or is crushing on some one like Ron did on fluer qulify as in love

Hmm...I wonder why harmonians repeat this quote so often (although its funny cuz all of our GoF evidence they say- No that doesnt work then they say- if yall have so much evidence this quote sinks your ship_
yet some people hate it when we mention the PLATONIC quote
Harry has to end up with the main lady, or either the person he ends up with becomes the main lady, because he is the main man, and his g/f should be the biggest person in his school age life.
the "main lady" for Harry does not have to be hermione- in fact whoever he loves is the "main lady" in his life, yet hermione would be the "main lady" who enhances the plot by teaching him spells and such- but yes "This is Harrys Story" (i said it myself in order from to stop me from screaming till I get grey hairs (which i feel coming on when I hear this as why it has to be H/Hr) as I am only 14)
did that make sense?
probably not but point is- who cares if harry is the hero-that does NOT mean he has to get with Hermione.

[Unicorn13]

I'm just slightly lost here, and not sure where to start, but I suppose I'll begin by adding my own views and thoughts.

The only ship I whole-heartedly support is the Ron/Hermione pairing, because it's the one that makes the most sense to me. While I acknowledge that Hermione and Harry do have some potential to become a couple, I still haven't seen any tangible evidence in the books that points towards the two of them ultimately being with each other. The manner with which they act around each other and the ease with which they express their concerns and feelings about a large variety of things seems to me to be more like a brother/sister sort of closeness. Ron and Hermione visibly react to each other in expressive ways, and Ms. Rowling has said so herself in more than one interview that something may very well be brewing between the two of them.

I think, though, that she's definitely made sure that there's a lot of elbow room to just sort of speculate on your own on who will end up together, and, with an expansive imagination, anything is possible. The books make no concrete promises of permanent romance, but leaves subtle little hints for everyone to read and interpret it as they'd like to. What may seem like a blatant form of proof to me in support of one pairing may be a completely insignificant tidbit to someone else who supports a different pairing. To me, it seems to be all a matter of what you, personally, decide to make of things...

[Hagrid_Is_A_Oaf]

Lets stop using other books to prove something in the Harry Potter Septology. They can help you get ideas and build on them in the Harry Potter Universe, but using them as evidence to prove your ship is a waste of time and space. Lets try to focus on the Harry Potter books and canon.

[Anakin Solo]

No, I think that they are disagreeing with Harry has to end up with the main girl.

So the Heron's assume that Hermione will always be the leading Lady, and since Hermione "has" to end up with Ron, then Harry can't be with the Heroine.

[Melcb98]

It's been fun in most stories for the past 4000 or so years
The hero gets the girl if there isn't a trio. These circumstances make it different than classic hero getting the girl stories.

So the Heron's assume that Hermione will always be the leading Lady, and since Hermione "has" to end up with Ron, then Harry can't be with the Heroine.
Hermione is a heroine as much as Ron is a Hero- Ron and Hermione are sidekicks. Hermione is considered the "leading lady," because she is apart of the trio, but her lead is on equal grounds with Ron.
Harry does not have to be with Hermione, the hero does not have to be the heroine. Hermione's role in Harry's life does not have to change when Harry falls for a different girl, just as Ron's role in Harry's life does not have to change when Harry starts dating.

[Anakin Solo]

Hmm...I wonder why harmonians repeat this quote so often (although its funny cuz all of our GoF evidence they say- No that doesnt work then they say- if yall have so much evidence this quote sinks your ship_
yet some people hate it when we mention the PLATONIC quote

the "main lady" for Harry does not have to be hermione- in fact whoever he loves is the "main lady" in his life, yet hermione would be the "main lady" who enhances the plot by teaching him spells and such- but yes "This is Harrys Story" (i said it myself in order from to stop me from screaming till I get grey hairs (which i feel coming on when I hear this as why it has to be H/Hr) as I am only 14)
did that make sense?
probably not but point is- who cares if harry is the hero-that does NOT mean he has to get with Hermione.

I disregard the platonic quote because it does seem in OoTP that Harry and HErmione are platonic, but I'm sure most of us have had a crush on someone whom we once had a platonic relationship with

[Firebolt2004]

[/QUOTE]Hermione is a heroine as much as Ron is a Hero- Ron and Hermione are sidekicks. Hermione is considered the "leading lady," because she is apart of the trio, but her lead is on equal grounds with Ron.
Harry does not have to be with Hermione, the hero does not have to be the heroine. Hermione's role in Harry's life does not have to change when Harry falls for a different girl, just as Ron's role in Harry's life does not have to change when Harry starts dating.
[QUOTE]
Well said, Melcb98. This is exacltly what the Harmonians don't seem to get.

[FlyingPhoenix]

X-Ray made it up, I don't remember the exact reason, but you can ask him.

He didn't. You give him way too much credit.

HMS SIGN was orginally written like this HMS S.I.G.N . G and N should be obvious however I'm not sure what S and I stand for :whistle:

Any harmonian is invited to respond...

It's an easy one, seriously easy. There are deads in this story where we aren't suppose to feel grief loseing this people ergo we don't know them or they aren't important to us. I think that Hermione (which turns 16 in book6) will lose her parents but we aren't suppose to feel for Harry that he lose someone (what we would in case of Mrs Weasley and Mr Weasley) but to feel for Hermione. A very usual way to write such a plot. Esp. if we are suppose to understand what it means how it must be if you as friend can't do much except just to be there. Mind you its much harder to see someone in pain you like/love as to be it yourself.

[FredFancier]

I disregard the platonic quote because it does seem in OoTP that Harry and HErmione are platonic, but I'm sure most of us have had a crush on someone whom we once had a platonic relationship with
ah, but JKR said that they will not date
and the reason is because they are platonic friends
(and this quote was not for a specific book, see the link in Mrs.Bombadils sig)

[Melcb98]

He didn't. You give him way too much credit.

HMS SIGN was orginally written like this HMS S.I.G.N . G and N should be obvious however I'm not sure what S and G stand for
Huh, I could have sworn.....My mistake. He's the ones who makes the lists, anyway- so I do know that he knows what it means.

[FredFancier]

It's an easy one, seriously easy. There are deads in this story where we aren't suppose to feel grief loseing this people ergo we don't know them or they aren't important to us. I think that Hermione (which turns 16 in book6) will lose her parents but we aren't suppose to feel for Harry that he lose someone (what we would in case of Mrs Weasley and Mr Weasley) but to feel for Hermione. A very usual way to write such a plot. Esp. if we are suppose to understand what it means how it must be if you as friend can't do much except just to be there. Mind you its much harder to see someone you like/love as to be it yourself.
I doubt either of her parents will die- (and certainly not both) for it would take away harrys harsh limelight, and the books would be more central about hermiones losses over harrys (Or harry would be mad at himself for being so angsty about his parents and Sirius's death, so then we have another angsty book)
but out of curiosity- what does this have to do with shipping?
Hermiones been in front of harrys nose for many many books, he has seen her good side, her bad sides etc. He has been in situations with her where people begin to realize they like each other- when other people say they do (a la Rita Skeeter) life threatening (too many to list while I am being lazy), when hermione is all dolled up (Yule Ball), When someone else likes the girl often the guy realizes hey I like her (yet this didnt happen with Krum or Ron- harry still doesnt like her)

edit- also when harry thought mr weasley was dying he was more concerned "oh gosh Im responsible" then "he is dying! OMG!" so we werent feeling "oh harry lost someone"
plus, call me crazy but I think Ron may be more affected if the weasleys died, so someone harry loves (as a best friend) would be in pain,- no different from if hermiones parent(s) died- someone he loves (as a best friend) would be in pain

[Unicorn13]

ah, but JKR said that they will not date
and the reason is because they are platonic friends
(and this quote was not for a specific book, see the link in Mrs.Bombadils sig)

True, very true. Besides that, not all platonic relationships turn into some full-blown romance, whether it's one-sided or not. Most people may develop crushes on people they were platonic friends with, but there are always exceptions. I personally think Harry and Hermione's case is an example of one of those special instances where their relationship does not extend beyond friendship.

[FredFancier]

I personally think Harry and Hermione's case is an example of one of those special instances where their relationship does not extend beyond friendship.
ditto
esp cuz she added "But I wont say the Same for anyone else nudge nudge wink wink"
meaning a couple involving Harry but Not hermione has to happen
or a couple involving Hermione but not Harry has to happen
and the nudging and winking imply someone obvious, and I would guess H/G or R/Hr (but either way its not H/Hr)

[Anakin Solo]

ah, but JKR said that they will not date
and the reason is because they are platonic friends
(and this quote was not for a specific book, see the link in Mrs.Bombadils sig)

There is a lno on her specifying it to book five, that does not mean there is proof that she was not specifying it to book five. Absence of Proof is not proof of absence.

[Sienna]

Gilly-Ann:
Actually it means way of a lot more. Better than thinking that Ginny is an afterthough why don't you asked Why did Ginny had to be a girl? Why Ron wasn't the seventh son? Because it seems to me that JKR had to make Ginny a girl and you know with 7 boys she would have made a much better case for the legend (although it still applies to Ginny) with a son instead of a daughter. This seems like one of those things that JKR just had to do, like does endless old lovely british stories where the orphan marries his best friend sister.

The only character we know for sure had to be a girl is Hermione and we know because JKR has told us so in several interviews. We don’t know whether or not Ginny had to be a girl or whether, having written so many male characters, JKR felt that it would be nice to throw a girl into the mix. (By the by, is there a tradition of old british stories where the orphan marries his best friend’s sister that I don’t know about?)

Why do Harmony shippers get the impression that Harry has to end up with a main character? BTW Ginny can become one, specially with that brush with Moldyvoldy. The Weasley's are an important family on this series but you actually didn't expect for JKR to come up with all of them at the same time. Do you?

I didn’t say that Harry had to end up with a main character, I said in classically structured stories the love interest is usually a main character or a main impacting character. In addition, Ginny, Neville and Luna all seem to be stepping up the plate and taking on more significant roles but this doesn’t mean any of them will be Harry’s love interest. (Neville is a rank outsider in those stakes for sure … ;)). I find it strange that H/G shippers aren’t more worried about the fact that, despite only being introduced in OotP, Luna has taken on as much of a role Harry’s life as Ginny. The fact that JKR chose to write it that way speaks volumes.

LillyladLollipop:
i don't think so. why can't he and hermione just be best friends. if he and hermione end up together, he's just the stereotypical heroe winning over the girl. and that is definately no fun!

And if Ron and Hermione end up together, it’ll just be the stereotypical bickering couple and if Ginny and Harry end up together it’ll be the stereotypical guys falls for his best friend’s sister and so on and so forth. Is there a type of couple that hasn’t been written after over 5 millenia of storytelling?

mrs_bombadil:
I notice you didn't answer my question, so I'll get around to repeating it after I provide a few additional comments.
Was there one? Sorry, I didn’t notice.

Just because you assert that the "small tidbit" I presented doesn't mean anything, doesn't make it so.
Just because you assert that it does, doesn’t make it so either. Tit for Tat … so nya nya nya nya nya… sorry, can’t resist the silliness. ;) I think your point is self-evident.
The 2 examples are also very different. One discusses, briefly, how part of the creation grew. The issue I am focusing on is how part has diminished--that Hermione’s family has gone from backseat to virtually non-existent and JKR says it's "too late" to include them.
JKR said that it was too late to include a ‘sister’ and I agree.

If Harry marries Hermione, her family will become his. Despite the fact that should be important on its own, it is additionally troubling to me because this would be the family that the orphan who grew up in an abusive household would join. His future in-laws would seem to be quite relevant, imo. In the execution of the story, the family that eventually becomes Harry’s should take some prominence shouldn’t they? If Hermione is to be so supremely important to Harry, how can her family be so unimportant?
Being important to the plot and possibly being important at some point to the character are two different things. I think you’ve made more out of this information than is warranted. The Grangers not being included in a plot or subplot and the Grangers not being important at some point to Harry are not the same thing.

Expendable is your term not JKR’s. In addition, I'm not sure what you mean by not being consistent with Harmony’s theories. You’ll have to be more specific. I think you're clutching at straws.

Sienna

[Jadecmn]

Harry has to end up with the main lady, or either the person he ends up with becomes the main lady, because he is the main man, and his g/f should be the biggest person in his school age life.


I don't think his g/f should be the biggest person in his life regardless of who she is. I mean right now he's going through a very difficult time, in book 6 he's going to be part of a war, and he's only 16! I think it would be hard to work a romance very well in this kind of atmosphere, specially since he has to worry about being the one to kill the biggest evil in the wizarding world. Although I do think he'll have some romance, I just don't like this implication, otherwise I wouldn't be here, although I think it's more likely to be Ginny.

[The Leprechaun]

There is a lno on her specifying it to book five, that does not mean there is proof that she was not specifying it to book five. Absence of Proof is not proof of absence.

I have no idea what you are saying in the first sentence.

[Anakin Solo]

I doubt either of her parents will die- (and certainly not both) for it would take away harrys harsh limelight, and the books would be more central about hermiones losses over harrys (Or harry would be mad at himself for being so angsty about his parents and Sirius's death, so then we have another angsty book)
but out of curiosity- what does this have to do with shipping?
Hermiones been in front of harrys nose for many many books, he has seen her good side, her bad sides etc. He has been in situations with her where people begin to realize they like each other- when other people say they do (a la Rita Skeeter) life threatening (too many to list while I am being lazy), when hermione is all dolled up (Yule Ball), When someone else likes the girl often the guy realizes hey I like her (yet this didnt happen with Krum or Ron- harry still doesnt like her)

edit- also when harry thought mr weasley was dying he was more concerned "oh gosh Im responsible" then "he is dying! OMG!" so we werent feeling "oh harry lost someone"
plus, call me crazy but I think Ron may be more affected if the weasleys died, so someone harry loves (as a best friend) would be in pain,- no different from if hermiones parent(s) died- someone he loves (as a best friend) would be in pain

Someone recently stated that A h/hr matchup was impossible because it would dissolve the trio, into the duo and 1. A R/Hr duo would do the same, only worse, because we already know that Harry is extremely Jealous of Ron and Hermione together time!

One thing, do you agree that a Granger parent/s death would benefit the Harmonians ship more than the Heron's?

[The Leprechaun]

Someone recently stated that A h/hr matchup was impossible because it would dissolve the trio, into the duo and 1. A R/Hr duo would do the same, only worse, because we already know that Harry is extremely Jealous of Ron and Hermione together time!

One thing, do you agree that a Granger parent/s death would benefit the Harmonians ship more than the Heron's?

Something tells me that Harmony would be everything, but harmonious. Where as Heron may have a little bit of Harry sulking and jealousy, it won't have a vicious fight between Ron and Harry (which most likely would occur).

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on who Hermione goes to for comfort. As of right now, I'd say both boys have a good chance of that happening.

[Melcb98]

Someone recently stated that A h/hr matchup was impossible because it would dissolve the trio, into the duo and 1. A R/Hr duo would do the same, only worse, because we already know that Harry is extremely Jealous of Ron and Hermione together time!
Can you name all the instances that Harry was jealous of Ron and Hermione's alone time? Because, I only know of one- and there were plenty of extenuating circumstances for that. Can you tell me the others? Ron and Hermione are alone an awful lot.

One thing, do you agree that a Granger parent/s death would benefit the Harmonians ship more than the Heron's?

Hermione's parents aren't important to the story- so why does it matter?

[Krumpet]

Someone recently stated that A h/hr matchup was impossible because it would dissolve the trio, into the duo and 1. A R/Hr duo would do the same, only worse, because we already know that Harry is extremely Jealous of Ron and Hermione together time!

In an extreme situation, of being left to rot at the Dursley's Harry wasn't happy that his friends where having fun without him. It would be like if you had to get a root canal and your best friends got to go to Disney Land. The jealousy arose out of the situation, not because Ron got to spend time with Hermione.

One thing, do you agree that a Granger parent/s death would benefit the Harmonians ship more than the Heron's?

No I don't. I think we'd see Hermione go into an emotional tailspin. I'm not sure she'd want to date either boy at that point, but if she had to choose I think she'd pick the one that she feels protected by, not the one she feels protective of.

[FredFancier]

And if Ron and Hermione end up together, it’ll just be the stereotypical bickering couple Except they do not bicker as often as some people want to believe. (im not exactly debating your point-im just debating the bickering part)
Is there a type of couple that hasn’t been written after over 5 millenia of storytelling?
Yes! my new ship! Harry/Madam Pince- now how often does the protagonist get together with a woman who is god knows how much older then him and enchants his stuff to whack him on the head as he leaves eating chocolate?
(note that wasnt a serious point, it was a joke type thing, not a funny one, but a joke type thing nonetheless)
There is a lno on her specifying it to book five, that does not mean there is proof that she was not specifying it to book five. Absence of Proof is not proof of absence.
well for one thing- what about the not saying for anyone else (and the nudging and winking) now I know the anyone else does not necissarily mean R/Hr- yet it cant have meant Hr/V as we didnt know Viktor yet
<ack! Mrs.Bombadil changed her sig- I was going to check her essay to make sure I was making sense and possibly post part of it, or atleast the link) but ugh! i cant remember all my reasons for why it is for all books, not can I remember what Mrs.Bombadil's essay said. I'll get back to this

[Jadecmn]

Someone recently stated that A h/hr matchup was impossible because it would dissolve the trio, into the duo and 1. A R/Hr duo would do the same, only worse, because we already know that Harry is extremely Jealous of Ron and Hermione together time!

That might've been me, but my point was I think that Harry might know that Ron likes Hermione, because if the books are in his POV and Ron is so obviously jealous (even Harmonians admit Ron likes Hermione) that it might jeperdize his friendship with Ron if he were to go after Hermione.

That would also add unnecessary drama to the book this is Harry's fight against Voldemort not the O.C.

I won't repeat 'cause plenty of other people have already pointed it out, but he was jealous over their having fun at all and knowing what was going on in the wizarding world, while he did not!

One thing, do you agree that a Granger parent/s death would benefit the Harmonians ship more than the Heron's?

Why would you say this? Has anyone in the books done more than said hello to the Grangers?

[Anakin Solo]

Something tells me that Harmony would be everything, but harmonious. Where as Heron may have a little bit of Harry sulking and jealousy, it won't have a vicious fight between Ron and Harry (which most likely would occur).

Maybe, maybe not. It depends on who Hermione goes to for comfort. As of right now, I'd say both boys have a good chance of that happening.

WHich is precisely why I think that Hermione and Ron HAVE to get together prior to Harmony to occur (Pun intended ;))
I'm not sure exactly how the falling out of Ron and Hermione will occur, but it can't be that damaging, I'll post my opinion on what happens in a sec.

I'd say what with the orphan thing going on, she'd go to Harry, but the Weasley's may adopt her...

[Jadecmn]

WHich is precisely why I think that Hermione and Ron HAVE to get together prior to Harmony to occur (Pun intended ;))
I'm not sure exactly how the falling out of Ron and Hermione will occur, but it can't be that damaging, I'll post my opinion on what happens in a sec.

I'd say what with the orphan thing going on, she'd go to Harry, but the Weasley's may adopt her...



How would that work? Getting adopted by the family of your ex-boyfriend?

And in the next two years, along with going to classes, playing Quidditch and fighting the ultimate evil, when exactly is Ron and Hermione suppossed to get together and break up only so that Hermione can date her other best friend, not to mention her ex-boyfriend's best friend, I said before I'll say it again, this isn't the O.C.

[FredFancier]

Originally Posted by Anakin Solo
Someone recently stated that A h/hr matchup was impossible because it would dissolve the trio, into the duo and 1. A R/Hr duo would do the same, only worse, because we already know that Harry is extremely Jealous of Ron and Hermione together time!
1) do you know why we (or rather some of us) say H/Hr will destroy the trio? Some say it because Ron is already jealous of Harry, hes famous, a quidditch hero when he first stepped on a broom, dumbledores favorite, he is popular, he seems to be pretty good looking (from what the book says), he's rich etc. Also harry doesnt like hermione. Ron does. So Ron would once again feel beaten by harry, hes beaten by his brothers at home (and doesnt even get attention for being the youngest as Ginny gets that) and then Ron goes to school and has harry to compete with. And Hermione, would probably, IMO be a bigger deal then the triwizard tournament thing, as he probably didnt have a chance anyway (as I believe he said), and hermione isnt a thing, she is a person, one that ron feels very deeply for, so for harry to up and one day decide "i like hermione" would be a bit...well it would make ron pretty upset I bet.
Yet Harry for one thing was not mad that R/Hr spent time together, he was mad that he was stuck at the dursleys and Ron and hermione were alone with the weasleys and everyone, and harry thought they had more info.
No I don't. I think we'd see Hermione go into an emotional tailspin. I'm not sure she'd want to date either boy at that point, but if she had to choose I think she'd pick the one that she feels protected by, not the one she feels protective of.

very well said, esp cuz you dont see harry threatening to kill malfoy with his bare hands.

[Sienna]

FredFancier:
Yes! my new ship! Harry/Madam Pince- now how often does the protagonist get together with a woman who is god knows how much older then him and enchants his stuff to whack him on the head as he leaves eating chocolate?
(note that wasnt a serious point, it was a joke type thing, not a funny one, but a joke type thing nonetheless)

Ever heard of Mrs Robinson? ;)

Sienna

[Unicorn13]

Although I do think he'll have some romance, I just don't like this implication, otherwise I wouldn't be here, although I think it's more likely to be Ginny.

Very good points considering Harry and his inevitably stressed sixth year and all the difficulties he'd be faced with. J.K. Rowling mentioned somewhere that there would be a little bit of romance in the sixth book, but I don't quite have an idea yet as to who it'll be between.

As for being with Ginny, I neither agree nor disagree with your opinions. While Ginny has most definitely grown up considerably and taken to thinking more independently, Harry still hasn't expressed any sort of interest in dating her because of her newfound maturity. While that may simply mean that he has no thoughts on the matter at the present time, it doesn't mean that he won't notice her sooner or later.

Ginny seems to have moved on from her childhood crush, but then again, this may be her own little mask she puts on to hide her true emotions. If they did end up together, I do know for a fact that Ron would most definitely support them (see fifth book; turn to the page where they're on the train home and Ginny tells Ron she's going out with Dean).

What I also find interesting is Ginny's newly emerged confidence with dating and just in general when she's participating in conversations (i.e., when she lied straight-faced to her mother about the dungbombs outside the door of the Order's meeting). Her character development in the fifth book seems to imply that she'll jump around a bit more than we would've expected her to before she finally settles down with one person. As to who that person will be, it's all speculation, really. Would anyone like to add their opinion?

[FredFancier]

WHich is precisely why I think that Hermione and Ron HAVE to get together prior to Harmony to occur (Pun intended )
I'm not sure exactly how the falling out of Ron and Hermione will occur, but it can't be that damaging, I'll post my opinion on what happens in a sec.

I'd say what with the orphan thing going on, she'd go to Harry, but the Weasley's may adopt her...
Er, is there even proof that Hermiones parents (both of them) will die?
No, as that would make Hermione too similar, and if hermione's parents died it woudld take away from harrys (awful) limelightand this isnt a soap opera.
edit-
oh and another point to the hermiones parents thing (not the latest breakthrough of "Their doomed" but to the they dont have a large role, and you'd think they would (or atleast be mentioned more often) if she was Harrys LI
but hermione didnt go skiing because Dumbledore told her about the snake and Rons dad, so she went to grimmuald place where she was told that harry hid himself in a room, then she dragged him out (IMO because she probably thought that a) he was overreacting and b) the weasleys were the ones that almost suffered a huge loss so they needed a bit more sympathy-again just IMHO)
also during the summer when hermione was supposed to visit viktor (though we dont know if she did- and that goodbye talk could have been "i cant see you again" type- but thats not important
anyway you;'d think she would want to spend a large amount of time with her family but she was with the weasleys...hmm (as her owls were similar to rons we cant tell you ..... and dumbledore would not have owled her what was going on if he wouldnt do that for harry)

[Jadecmn]

Very good points considering Harry and his inevitably stressed sixth year and all the difficulties he'd be faced with. J.K. Rowling mentioned somewhere that there would be a little bit of romance in the sixth book, but I don't quite have an idea yet as to who it'll be between.

As for being with Ginny, I neither agree nor disagree with your opinions. While Ginny has most definitely grown up considerably and taken to thinking more independently, Harry still hasn't expressed any sort of interest in dating her because of her newfound maturity. While that may simply mean that he has no thoughts on the matter at the present time, it doesn't mean that he won't notice her sooner or later.

Ginny seems to have moved on from her childhood crush, but then again, this may be her own little mask she puts on to hide her true emotions. If they did end up together, I do know for a fact that Ron would most definitely support them (see fifth book; turn to the page where they're on the train home and Ginny tells Ron she's going out with Dean).

What I also find interesting is Ginny's newly emerged confidence with dating and just in general when she's participating in conversations (i.e., when she lied straight-faced to her mother about the dungbombs outside the door of the Order's meeting). Her character development in the fifth book seems to imply that she'll jump around a bit more than we would've expected her to before she finally settles down with one person. As to who that person will be, it's all speculation, really. Would anyone like to add their opinion?

Love your post!! I know exactly what you mean I wasn't ever really sure about Ginny either, but she makes more sense than Luna, and I think that Hermione is going to end up with Ron, so that only leaves Ginny, also Mrs. Bombadil had some links that I think if go back to around the 40s pages of this thread you might find the links she posted and it was very convincing.

But great post!!

[Claudia]

Why would you say this? Has anyone in the books done more than said hello to the Grangers?Mr. Weasley bought them drinks! Not that that helps any of our shipping theories out any...

[delemtri]

Very good points considering Harry and his inevitably stressed sixth year and all the difficulties he'd be faced with. J.K. Rowling mentioned somewhere that there would be a little bit of romance in the sixth book, but I don't quite have an idea yet as to who it'll be between.

As for being with Ginny, I neither agree nor disagree with your opinions. While Ginny has most definitely grown up considerably and taken to thinking more independently, Harry still hasn't expressed any sort of interest in dating her because of her newfound maturity. While that may simply mean that he has no thoughts on the matter at the present time, it doesn't mean that he won't notice her sooner or later.

Ginny seems to have moved on from her childhood crush, but then again, this may be her own little mask she puts on to hide her true emotions. If they did end up together, I do know for a fact that Ron would most definitely support them (see fifth book; turn to the page where they're on the train home and Ginny tells Ron she's going out with Dean).

What I also find interesting is Ginny's newly emerged confidence with dating and just in general when she's participating in conversations (i.e., when she lied straight-faced to her mother about the dungbombs outside the door of the Order's meeting). Her character development in the fifth book seems to imply that she'll jump around a bit more than we would've expected her to before she finally settles down with one person. As to who that person will be, it's all speculation, really. Would anyone like to add their opinion?

I think the biggest question one must ask with any LI (well, second biggest - the first, obviously, is "where in canon does it suggest this") is how they will help Harry cope with the burden the prophecy placed on him.

[The Leprechaun]

WHich is precisely why I think that Hermione and Ron HAVE to get together prior to Harmony to occur (Pun intended ;))
I'm not sure exactly how the falling out of Ron and Hermione will occur, but it can't be that damaging, I'll post my opinion on what happens in a sec.

I'd say what with the orphan thing going on, she'd go to Harry, but the Weasley's may adopt her...

That is exactly my opinion on Harmony ever sailing, I believe that if Harmony is to sail it requires some kind of pretty definite end to Heron. We actually agree on something, look at that. Of course, I still don't Harmony is going to happen, but that is me.

It will be sticky situation if it ever occured.

[Jadecmn]

Mr. Weasley bought them drinks! Not that that helps any of our shipping theories out any...


Now I remember that!!!

Cool, thanks!!

[Claudia]

...if she had to choose I think she'd pick the one that she feels protected by, not the one she feels protective of.You do have to admit, though, that the type of protection differs. With Ron, Hermione gets the day-to-day defend-her-honor-and-general-well-being sort of protection. With Harry, Hermione gets the save-her-life sort of protection. Of course, in an ideal life, Hermione would not need much in the way of life-saving, and that ought to make the more daily, mundane sort of protection more attractive. Just IMO, naturally. :)

[rjade829]

Ginny seems to have moved on from her childhood crush, but then again, this may be her own little mask she puts on to hide her true emotions.

I have a question. Let's say Ginny actually still likes Harry and she's just masking her feelings. Why would she lie to Hermione about her feelings then? It's disadvantageous to her. Since Hermione's so close to Harry, it would be a good thing for Ginny to have Hermione in the middle. But from what Hermione tells Harry in OOTP, it seems that Ginny has told Hermione that she's moving on, and Hermione tells this to Harry. If Hermione knew that Ginny still liked Harry, she shouldn't have told him this. Unless Ginny's masking her feelings around Hermione too, which doesn't make sense because like I said, Hermione could help her out. So do you think that Ginny told Hermione the truth about her feelings, and if not, why not?

[JordanL]

JKR is the only one who'll decide what Harry needs and what his functions are? If she sees fit to have him open up even more to Hermione than he already has, so be it.

Yes, she is the one to make the final call, but guess what, she's already been doing it for five books. It really isn't difficult to ascertain the literrary functions of most of the characters at this time.

Interesting Heron argument. If Ron shows indifference to Hermione, it can still lead to them becoming a couple. Harry showing indifference to Ginny all these years can still lead to them becoming a couple, but if Harry or Hermione show the slightest interest in another person (Cho/Krum), it sinks the H/Hr ship. I don't get this logic at all.

I'm not a Heron!

This is why I just hate looking at this arguement from a characters perspective: way too ambiguous.

My apologies to JordanL. His argument sounded like he was a Heron.

My arguement was what I percieve as pure logic, wherever it leads me. It is not absolutely impossible for Heron to turn out, and I was giving an example of one of the ways its possible, and indeed I believe, most possible.

[The Leprechaun]

I'm not a Heron!

This is why I just hate looking at this arguement from a characters perspective: way too ambiguous.

Just admit it, you want to jump ship. :evil:

[JordanL]

So, Hermione talking about Harry to Krum doesn't mean a thing to you? interesting. It isn't a sign of her interest in Harry? Interesting.

This is too hillarious. With one post, every single shipper is arguing how Hermione loved the other guy in GoF... I could almost cry. The hypocrisy.... it burns..... (didn't mean you specifically Leprechaun)

Just admit it, you want to jump ship. :evil:

Heh... I probably would if I was one a ship to begin with...

[Claudia]

I have a question. Let's say Ginny actually still likes Harry and she's just masking her feelings. Why would she lie to Hermione about her feelings then? It's disadvantageous to her. Since Hermione's so close to Harry, it would be a good thing for Ginny to have Hermione in the middle. But from what Hermione tells Harry in OOTP, it seems that Ginny has told Hermione that she's moving on, and Hermione tells this to Harry. If Hermione knew that Ginny still liked Harry, she shouldn't have told him this. Unless Ginny's masking her feelings around Hermione too, which doesn't make sense because like I said, Hermione could help her out. So do you think that Ginny told Hermione the truth about her feelings, and if not, why not?I think the pro-H/G people would point out that Ginny did not tell Hermione that she was 'over' Harry; instead the quote from Hermione is "Ginny used to fancy Harry, but she gave up on him months ago. Not that she doesn't like you, of course." This makes it possible to speculate that Ginny still has some feelings for Harry, but since she thinks he'll never be interested in her, is making an effort to give other boys a chance instead. From this POV, it is difficult to know what Hermione really knows about the situation. Perhaps she understands Ginny's position, or perhaps she believes that Ginny really has moved on.

[delemtri]

This is too hillarious. With one post, every single shipper is arguing how Hermione loved the other guy in GoF... I could almost cry. The hypocrisy.... it burns..... (didn't mean you specifically Leprechaun)

Leprechaun was being sarcastic - the two questions he asked refer to commonly made Harmony arguments.

[The Leprechaun]

Heh... I probably would if I was one a ship to begin with...

Man overboard, it is the duty of every seaman to help the stranded. Throw out the life preservers.

[JordanL]

Man overboard, it is the duty of every seaman to help the stranded. Throw out the life preservers.

Actually that HMS SureShot sounds kinda spiffy...

[Kia]

Wow, that was a Pandora's Box. One I didn't intend. I thought the feminist bit was just really interesting.


You know it's kind of weird that if this interview was published in a newspaper in 2000 it wasn't never picked up by any of the news sites or the quick quote people. The answers don't even sound like JKR.

Dear GilyAnn,

the reason why these answers might sound unlike JKR is that they are re-translations. They were held in English, were translated into German, published in a German newspaper (actually its supplement - meaning that day, the paper included a magazine that was named adventurously "Magazin"), re-published in a book (which you can buy) by Rowling's German publisher and then unofficially re-translated into English by a friend of mine who was scared out of his wits regarding the re-translation because of a rant of mine regarding the validity of translations. (He included a nice set of annotations regarding alternate translations. Hardly any of them did change the meaning even one tiny little bit. So if you are curious - according to him the truly in "truly fall in love" could also be translated as "really." How exciting.)


The reason why this thing never appeared on QQ or wherever is that no one gives a flying fig about JKR interviews that were not published in English, although there are a lot of them out there. For more than a year I am trying to get someone to search for an interview a Swiss journalist did in 1999 (before PoA hit it big), but no such luck.

Off course it matters if it confirms or not! We are suppossed to believe in something that is 4 years old, it was public but that no HP fan had seen until today and that nobody can verify unless they buy a book? I'm sorry but this interview is starting to sound as something weird. Furhtermore I have never heard JKR be this undiplomatic before:


While she has critized Blyton for the standing still time frame of her books JKR has never lowered herself to such low bashing

JK ROWLING: Quite a lot because I find it quite sinister, the way that, looking back at the Famous Five books for example, I think 21 adventures or 20 or something, they never had a hormonal impulse - except that Anne was sometimes told that she would make someone a good little wife whenever she unlaid the picnic things.

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/2003/0619-bbcnews-paxman.htm

And he does grow up - in book four the hormones are going to kick in - I don't want him stuck in a state of permanent pre-pubescence like poor Julian in the Famous Five!

http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/0299-guardian-carey.htm

A problem you run into with a series is how the characters grow up ... whether they're allowed to grow up. The characters in Enid Blyton's Famous Five books act in a prepubescent way right through the series....
My books are ultimately more moral. An unfashionable word, but there you go. They're not moralistic, but there is often a good-versus-evil subtext. They're not absolutely black and white, though. Harry breaks a lot of rules. He's not good in the Enid Blyton sense.

http://www.hpgalleries.co.uk/word/c134.php

Not good and in evil in the "evil criminals and nice, decent middle-class kids"? *raises brows*

You realise, well actually you cannot, that I snipped a part of that answer? The part where Rowling said that Blyton is a good writer for really small children, but that she is completely uninteresting for older children, since her characters were never allowed to grow up.

Yeah, I cut that because we know that already. I pretty much cut everything we heard before like the story about the woman who didn't like the idea of someone getting killed in Book Four and Rowling telling her that she should stop buying the books then.

Basically I cut everything I considered repetitive. From the no-teenage pregnancies policy to reading HP to her daughter. But if you need familiarity:

Q: Are there certain topics, you want to avoid in your books?

Yes, there are. It wouldn't be appropriate to write about teenage pregnancies or drug abuse in the Harry Potter books. That's not Harry's world/scene.

Just search QQ and see how Rowling said something to that effect in at least four different interviews.

Of course that could be me making this stuff up based on these interviews, right?

Only if did that I wouldn't include a link to Amazon where anyone can buy that bloody interview and check out whether it is real? I would be a bit more vague with my sources and claim that I found it on the back of a five year old box of cereal. And the thing would be a bit more exciting than "Fourteen-year-old cannot truly fall in love", it would be "Hermione will take a special interest in Harry if you know what I mean."

Seriously I don't know whose credibility you question, mine or Rowling's German publishers, but I surely don't appreciate it.

Well isn't JKR contradicting herself because in more that one interview I have heard how Harry had to be an orphan.

What does having to be an orphan - the necessity to have some conflict from page one - to do with kids being happier in a family than in an orphanage? I am sure if you asked Rowling whether it is better to have a living godfather instead of a dead one, she wouldn't vote for the corpse. That doesn't wake Sirius from the dead either.

Even more interesting Harry is in a bad family situation and turns out to be the hero, while Tom Riddle grows up in an orphanage and turns out to be the villain. I see more of a confirmation of what we know already than a contradiction.

[The Leprechaun]

Actually that HMS SureShot sounds kinda spiffy...

:welcome: aboard. First new member in at least a month.

[GilyAnn]

Sienna:
The only character we know for sure had to be a girl is Hermione and we know because JKR has told us so in several interviews. We don’t know whether or not Ginny had to be a girl or whether, having written so many male characters, JKR felt that it would be nice to throw a girl into the mix. (By the by, is there a tradition of old british stories where the orphan marries his best friend’s sister that I don’t know about?)

Hmmm... yes Hermione had to be a girl and Ron had to be the same sex as Harry doesn't that tell you something? It's quite clear that JKR intended for Ginny to be a girl since she feels the need to harp on it to us. I do seem to may have missed the interview where JKR says that Ginny had to be a girl because JKR wrote so many male characters. Wouldn't that apply to Hermione? She had to be a girl since there were so many male figures? I can only remember that JKR said that she had strong female figures with Hermione and McGonagall for example and that she wasn't over. So where is that?

Yes there a period a long while ago in brittish (mostly children's I believe, though not sure) literature that involved stories about and orphan and he always used to end up marrying his best friend sister. They are old but the stories are really great. I do have a post on that somewhere in my files about the subject if you wish I can dig it in and post it, if you like.

I didn’t say that Harry had to end up with a main character, I said in classically structured stories the love interest is usually a main character or a main impacting character. In addition, Ginny, Neville and Luna all seem to be stepping up the plate and taking on more significant roles but this doesn’t mean any of them will be Harry’s love interest. (Neville is a rank outsider in those stakes for sure … ). I find it strange that H/G shippers aren’t more worried about the fact that, despite only being introduced in OotP, Luna has taken on as much of a role Harry’s life as Ginny. The fact that JKR chose to write it that way speaks volumes.

Apologies for my missundertanding. First and as I said before not for nothing JKR is elusive when talking on the subject of Ginny's role (when's she not tying it up to Harry's) and we know that when she avoids or skirts the subject she hides something. She also decided to give Ginny a different role from book 5 on and gave her a brush with moldyvoldy. I can safely say that all of those things have a promissing future for Ginny. :eyebrows: Also aren't you worried about Luna? Since you seem to think that Luna has taken much of a role in Harry's life why can't she take over Hermione's role? After all she is the Anti-Hermione. I'm not worried about Luna because it's quite clear to me that Luna's role is not romantic and her role appears to be attached to Ginny's so who knows what JKR has in store for them.

Being important to the plot and possibly being important at some point to the character are two different things. I think you’ve made more out of this information than is warranted. The Grangers not being included in a plot or subplot and the Grangers not being important at some point to Harry are not the same thing.

The Grangers are not important to the plot. They are boring, non-magical and by now it's late to introduced a sister for Hermione. It's very comforting to hear that because now I feel at ease that Hermione's parent's are safe and probably won't get killed. Obviously if we are late to introduced a sister and JKR is keeping them deliveratedly hidden they are not going to come up into this story for much. I can assume though that we will see them in the train stations etc like it has been as of now but not coming into the story.

Gily Ann

[JordanL]

:welcome: aboard. First new member in at least a month.

My God... you mean to tell me that you guys use a motor to get everywhere? And all this time I've been swimming?? ARG!

[delemtri]

Kia, I just thought I'd mention this because we argue about Plato so much - he didn't actually agree with the quote "All love is pursuit of the whole." It's in one of the speeches in the Symposium but it's not in Socrates' speech, which essentially bulldozes over all the previous ones.

[rjade829]

I think the pro-H/G people would point out that Ginny did not tell Hermione that she was 'over' Harry; instead the quote from Hermione is "Ginny used to fancy Harry, but she gave up on him months ago. Not that she doesn't like you, of course." This makes it possible to speculate that Ginny still has some feelings for Harry, but since she thinks he'll never be interested in her, is making an effort to give other boys a chance instead. From this POV, it is difficult to know what Hermione really knows about the situation. Perhaps she understands Ginny's position, or perhaps she believes that Ginny really has moved on.

If Ginny gave Hermione a reason to believe that she still liked Harry, why would Hermione say this to Harry at all though? On the surface it pretty much seems like she's telling Harry and Ron that Ginny's over Harry (not that she doesn't like him as a person/friend, of course).
So yeah, it just raises the question of what on earth Hermione and Ginny are really talking about behind the scenes... and like you said, whether or not Hermione knows the truth, whatever it may be.

[The Leprechaun]

My God... you mean to tell me that you guys use a motor to get everywhere? And all this time I've been swimming?? ARG!

More like sails and a rudder for SureShot, but it might one day be big enough to even trump Heron or Harmony. Well, at least you have had some time to swim around in extra-territorial waters. Just as a note, Heron is willing to accept you onboard as well.

[delemtri]

More like sails and a rudder for SureShot, but it might one day be big enough to even trump Heron or Harmony. Well, at least you have had some time to swim around in extra-territorial waters. Just as a note, Heron is willing to accept you onboard as well.

No offense, but I seriously hope we never find out about SureShot. I would be happy not to know anything that happens to either of the characters in books six and seven.

[hermioneclone9]

If Ginny gave Hermione a reason to believe that she still liked Harry, why would Hermione say this to Harry at all though? On the surface it pretty much seems like she's telling Harry and Ron that Ginny's over Harry (not that she doesn't like him as a person/friend, of course).
So yeah, it just raises the question of what on earth Hermione and Ginny are really talking about behind the scenes... and like you said, whether or not Hermione knows the truth, whatever it may be.

That's what I've been wondering...what do Hermione and Ginny talk about when Harry isn't there? I bet if we heard from their POV, we could hear all about the who likes who stuff...:evil:

[JordanL]

More like sails and a rudder for SureShot, but it might one day be big enough to even trump Heron or Harmony. Well, at least you have had some time to swim around in extra-territorial waters. Just as a note, Heron is willing to accept you onboard as well.

Yeah, but those Heron's.... they got them long necks.... and the unnatural need for fish....

[delemtri]

That's what I've been wondering...what do Hermione and Ginny talk about when Harry isn't there? I bet if we heard from their POV, we could hear all about the who likes who stuff...:evil:

Naw, Ginny wouldn't want to hear about her brother that much.

[The Leprechaun]

No offense, but I seriously hope we never find out about SureShot. I would be happy not to know anything that happens to either of the characters in books six and seven.

Don't worry, none taken. It's more or less a joke ship created by marauderlupin, about 2-2 1/2 months ago, and I am it's first mate. We don't even care if you torture Cho and Michael while aboard, just don't kill them.

[Kia]

Kia, I just thought I'd mention this because we argue about Plato so much - he didn't actually agree with the quote "All love is pursuit of the whole." It's in one of the speeches in the Symposium but it's not in Socrates' speech, which essentially bulldozes over all the previous ones.

How so? Do you have a link? In the original Greek? Are you sure this isn't a publicity stunt by someone who just wants to sell some books? And isn't Socrates a secondary source of questionable quality?

I really just believe this if you give me the original tape recording of Socrates speech. Actually I just believe you if you resurrect Plato and get him to retract that statement.

</end meta>

Seriously, you are the first debater that takes the bait. Congratulations.

[hermioneclone9]

Naw, Ginny wouldn't want to hear about her brother that much.

No, I mean like, Ginny spilling the beans on Ron...she's capable of that...:evil:

Don't worry, I'm just messing around. I know that if Ginny knows who Ron likes, and he doesn't want her to tell anyone, then I'm pretty sure that she wouldn't...although...as I recall, there *was* an incident with Percy that she didn't mind talking about...:evil:

[delemtri]

How so? Do you have a link? In the original Greek? Are you sure this isn't a publicity stunt by someone who just wants to sell some books? And isn't Socrates a secondary source of questionable quality?

I really just believe this if you give me the original tape recording of Socrates speech. Actually I just believe you if you resurrect Plato and get him to retract that statement.

</end meta>

Seriously, you are the first debater that takes the bait. Congratulations.

Excuse me? I'm not sure if you were being insulting or not, or if there's anything for me to respond to. I'm confused!

[The Leprechaun]

Yeah, but those Heron's.... they got them long necks.... and the unnatural need for fish....

All the better to see with.

[JordanL]

All the better to see with.

Now I gotta say, that was personally the best arguement in favor of Heron I've heard so far.

[The Leprechaun]

Now I gotta say, that was personally the best arguement in favor of Heron I've heard so far.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Just to add to that fish liver oil is very good for your brain.

[JordanL]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Just to add to that fish oil is very good for your brain.

Hmmmm.... so what you're saying is.... all Herons are Massechusets fisherman that belong in Ravenclaw? Intriguing.... ;)

You know, for all the times I've nailed someone for using a logical fallacy, I'm stunned no one has tried to pin me with a Grey Thinking (http://infogettable.net/glossary/term?item_id=4167&glossary_item_id=3514) fallacy....

[The Leprechaun]

Hmmmm.... so what you're saying is.... all Herons are Massechusets fisherman that belong in Ravenclaw? Intriguing.... ;)


Well, no I'm an Oregonian and have only been to Massachusetts twice. :rotfl:

[JordanL]

Well, no I'm an Oregonian and have only been to Massachsetts twice. :rotfl:

Heh. Yeah, us Oregonians eat quite a bit of fish too. I grew up on Salmon and Crab.

[GilyAnn]

Dear GilyAnn,

the reason why these answers might sound unlike JKR is that they are re-translations. They were held in English, were translated into German, published in a German newspaper (actually its supplement - meaning that day, the paper included a magazine that was named adventurously "Magazin"[/b]), re-published in a book (which you can buy) by Rowling's German publisher and then unofficially re-translated into English by a friend of mine who was scared out of his wits regarding the re-translation because of a rant of mine regarding the validity of translations. (He included a nice set of annotations regarding alternate translations. Hardly any of them did change the meaning even one tiny little bit. So if you are curious - according to him the truly in "truly fall in love" could also be translated as "really." How exciting.)


The reason why this thing never appeared on QQ or wherever is that no one gives a flying fig about JKR interviews that were not published in English, although there are a lot of them out there. For more than a year I am trying to get someone to search for an interview a Swiss journalist did in 1999 (before PoA hit it big), but no such luck.

Dear kia:

Ok let me get this straight we have to believe on a translation that doesn't look accurate from someone hearing JKR and that has been translated at least twice before and that for now we can verify and we dont know if it's accurate? Furthermore it was in a newspaper but nobody saw it? Because at least the interview of 'it wouldn't be Hermione' several fans can recall it. This interview nobody has seen it.

Furthermore it doesnt' sound as JKR and it does seem like a bad translation. I can see why nobody cares a flying fig about translated interviews. I have to buy a book on German if I want to see this quote. Sorry but until their is an official confirmation of QQ or someone like TLC I'm going to still consider this something like not real. Not long ago there was another interview too and it even had a cover. For now I will stick to www.jkrowling.com, sorry. If you want to believe it do so it's your right will to do so and it's mine to believe not too.

Not good and in evil in the "evil criminals and nice, decent middle-class kids"? *raises brows*

Yeap I'm raising my eyesbrows but at what I think it's your comparison to be honest. I really must have missunderstood this part so can you please go into further explanations? Thanks.

You realise, well actually you cannot, that I snipped a part of that answer? The part where Rowling said that Blyton is a good writer for really small children, but that she is completely uninteresting for older children, since her characters were never allowed to grow up.

Yeah, I cut that because we know that already. I pretty much cut everything we heard before like the story about the woman who didn't like the idea of someone getting killed in Book Four and Rowling telling her that she should stop buying the books then.


There is a really HUGE difference between the answer that you just quoted and this:

Q: What do you have against Enid Blyton?

She wasn't a good writer *snip*

Never waste these fourteen-year olds a thought on sexual feelings, never do they have a bad wish. There are only the evil criminals and the decent, nice middle-class kids. In her books mother is always in the kitchen baking cake while father repairs the car. But children never experience (a) life so harmonious(ly). Enid Blyton was just a liar. If we had ever met, she wouldn't have liked me - I smoke too much

JKR is NEVER this undiplomatic. She CLEARLY doesn't agree with Blyton's sense of universe, but nowhere in those interviews she is calling her a liar or bad author.

Seriously I don't know whose credibility you question, mine or Rowling's German publishers, but I surely don't appreciate it.

The credibility that you should be questioning is of this translation or this person that will need you to buy the book to see the interview. In one Blyton is a good writter and in the other she's a bad writter and a liar. Really huge inconsistensies and one of them do not mesh up with JKR usual answering pattern.

What does having to be an orphan - the necessity to have some conflict from page one - to do with kids being happier in a family than in an orphanage? I am sure if you asked Rowling whether it is better to have a living godfather instead of a dead one, she wouldn't vote for the corpse. That doesn't wake Sirius from the dead either.

Even more interesting Harry is in a bad family situation and turns out to be the hero, while Tom Riddle grows up in an orphanage and turns out to be the villain. I see more of a confirmation of what we know already than a contradiction.

JKR is contradicting herself either Harry had to be an orphan or he had to had some family. JKR has been very clear on the fact of why Harry had to be an orphan as I previously quoted before.

Gily Ann

[Melcb98]

Well, no I'm an Oregonian and have only been to Massachusetts twice.
Heh. Yeah, us Oregonians eat quite a bit of fish too. I grew up on Salmon and Crab.
As interesting as all this is (I work in Massachusetts and hate fish)- this is not on topic, and these forums are not chat rooms!

[JordanL]

As interesting as all this is (I work in Massachusetts and hate fish)- this is not on topic, and these forums are not chat rooms!

See, now that's clearly a Red Herring (http://infogettable.net/glossary/term?item_id=4158&glossary_item_id=3514) fallacy.

EDIT: I get the message.

[Melcb98]

See, now that's clearly a Red Herring (http://infogettable.net/glossary/term?item_id=4158&glossary_item_id=3514) fallacy.

EDIT: I get the message.

Yeah, its all good- herons, long necks, fish, herrings---it makes sense :rotfl: ---but has little to do with the actual thread!

[Unicorn13]

Love your post!! I know exactly what you mean I wasn't ever really sure about Ginny either, but she makes more sense than Luna, and I think that Hermione is going to end up with Ron, so that only leaves Ginny, also Mrs. Bombadil had some links that I think if go back to around the 40s pages of this thread you might find the links she posted and it was very convincing.

But great post!!

Aw.... shucks! Really, though, if you think through it, there are no promises of any relationships in the books, and there's just still so much possibility in everything. Thanks!

[JordanL]

Yeah, its all good- herons, long necks, fish, herrings---it makes sense :rotfl: ---but has little to do with the actual thread!

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the actual thread has little to do with the actual thread.

Fallacies left and right, paradigms that are perpetually in motion, and a storm centered around this incredibly odd quote that had been recently added to the mix.

[Jadecmn]

Aw.... shucks! Really, though, if you think through it, there are no promises of any relationships in the books, and there's just still so much possibility in everything. Thanks!

True but if there was any real promises none of us would be here arguing about it!!

[Melcb98]

I'm sorry to break it to you, but the actual thread has little to do with the actual thread.

Fallacies left and right, paradigms that are perpetually in motion, and a storm centered around this incredibly odd quote that had been recently added to the mix.
Fallacies about the love in the Harry Potter books that keeps us debating, unless unfortunately we get distracted. Some of us believe the fallacies, others contradict them- as with the quote today.
Paradigms that have canon behind them- yet are still interpreted differently.
And, another day without a heavy topic of debate is rare- and boring. Storms are fun.

If all of these things have to do with Harry Potter and love- its what we are here for.

Again, JordanL- why debate about how we debate? Why don't you actually state your opinion on the matter at hand?

[JordanL]

If all of these things have to do with Harry Potter and love- its what we are here for.

Oh, I never said that I was above it. ;)

[Melcb98]

Oh, I never said that I was above it. ;)
Who said you were above it?

[Unicorn13]

I have a question. Let's say Ginny actually still likes Harry and she's just masking her feelings. Why would she lie to Hermione about her feelings then? It's disadvantageous to her. Since Hermione's so close to Harry, it would be a good thing for Ginny to have Hermione in the middle. But from what Hermione tells Harry in OOTP, it seems that Ginny has told Hermione that she's moving on, and Hermione tells this to Harry. If Hermione knew that Ginny still liked Harry, she shouldn't have told him this. Unless Ginny's masking her feelings around Hermione too, which doesn't make sense because like I said, Hermione could help her out. So do you think that Ginny told Hermione the truth about her feelings, and if not, why not?

I think that Ginny, if she did lie to Hermione, probably did so because of perhaps confusion as to where she truly stands. Like I said, she jumps around with her boyfriends in the fifth book, and, as a teenager, she's obviously not going to have everything in her emotions set perfectly straight. As for if she was really telling the truth, I think only J.K. Rowling could say for sure.

True, Hermione could help Ginny, and she would keep her secrets, but there's also a chance that Ginny is less secure with herself than she lets on. If she puts on a mask about her feelings for Harry, why not one for her confidence? Many times, it seems that the people who are always seem to be the most sure of themselves turn out to be extremely insecure. And then, of course, the whole mask concept with Ginny is just yet another one of my speculations. :p

[JordanL]

Fallacies about the love in the Harry Potter books that keeps us debating, unless unfortunately we get distracted. Some of us believe the fallacies, others contradict them- as with the quote today.

Ack. So many fallacies were committed today its saddenning. But then again, I had to really train myself to see them.

It was kinda fun actually, learning all these fallacies, and coming across other such odd things, such as Ockams Razor.

Who said you were above it?

I thought that you thought that I thought that I was above it.... okay, that sounded off.

Whatever.

[Unicorn13]

True but if there was any real promises none of us would be here arguing about it!!

You have a very good point there... and everyone's probably glad there aren't, because honestly, that takes all the fun out of everything, right? I mean, just theorizing is half the fun! :clap:

[Jadecmn]

Well, goodnight everyone, have fun!!!

[Krumpet]

If Ginny is to the love of Harry's life, why was she an afterthought:

From jkrowling.com:
Fred and George have red hair because Ron does; in other words, I created Ron as a character first, then invented his brothers and sister.


Okay I was this got me thinking about Ginny's origin as a character. Does anyone else find it her name odd? I mean look at the rest of the Weaselys; Arthur, Molly, Bill (Perhaps William), Charlie, Percy, Fred & George, Ron. All of the rest of the Weaslys have fairly common English names, well I don't know how common "Percy" is but at least it's not un heard of and it's English . But Ginny is "Ginevra". The an old Italian name. She appears to be the odd one out. Any thoughts, on what if anything, that might mean?

[Unicorn13]

Yeah, I'm out too. Feel free to owl me, though!

[JordanL]

Okay I was this got me thinking about Ginny's origin as a character. Does anyone else find it her name odd? I mean look at the rest of the Weaselys; Arthur, Molly, Bill (Perhaps William), Charlie, Percy, Fred & George, Ron. All of the rest of the Weaslys have fairly common English names, well I don't know how common "Percy" is but at least it's not un heard of and it's English . But Ginny is "Ginevra". The an old Italian name. She appears to be the odd one out. Any thoughts, on what if anything, that might mean?

That's a really interesting observation. I'm not too sure how to interpret that one...

PS: w00t! Second Year!

[delemtri]

That's a really interesting observation. I'm not too sure how to interpret that one...

PS: w00t! Second Year!

Congrats.

It means she hooks up with Harry. (Sorry, I'm tired and don't feel like pretending to connect the dots.)

[JordanL]

Congrats.

It means she hooks up with Harry. (Sorry, I'm tired and don't feel like pretending to connect the dots.)

"Honestly! No tact at all!"*

*In true Hermione-chastizing-Ron fashion

[delemtri]

"Honestly! No tact at all!"*

*In true Hermione-chastizing-Ron fashion

Come on, Mum, you're so old-fashioned.

[JordanL]

Come on, Mum, you're so old-fashioned.

Okay, these last few pages I've been doing a bit too much RPing.... it's coming too naturally.

[Sienna]

GilyAnn:
Hmmm... yes Hermione had to be a girl and Ron had to be the same sex as Harry doesn't that tell you something?
Yes… it tells me that it was important for there to be two of one sex and one of the other. It could go either way you know so it’s not the best argument to focus on.
It's quite clear that JKR intended for Ginny to be a girl since she feels the need to harp on it to us.
She hasn’t harped on it at all – that’s the point. She’s never said ‘it was important for Ginny to be a girl’… or ‘Poor Ginny, being the only girl’… or anything remotely like that. Go back and read my original post… I did not say anywhere that JKR said that ‘Ginny had to be a girl because she wrote so many male characters’… I said that she’s never told us why Ginny had to be a girl or even that Ginny had to be a girl at all. We don’t know why Ginny is a girl. Unlike Hermione, JKR has not spoken to us about that at all.
They are old but the stories are really great. I do have a post on that somewhere in my files about the subject if you wish I can dig it in and post it, if you like.
That would be interesting. Thanks.
Apologies for my missundertanding.
No problem.
First and as I said before not for nothing JKR is elusive when talking on the subject of Ginny's role (when's she not tying it up to Harry's) and we know that when she avoids or skirts the subject she hides something.[/QUOTES]
Then there are some very good arguments for H/Hr.
[QUOTES]She also decided to give Ginny a different role from book 5 on and gave her a brush with moldyvoldy. I can safely say that all of those things have a promissing future for Ginny.
I agree that she seems to have a bigger role to play than we originally thought. My point is that given that Luna and Ginny have similar roles (one which took 1 book and the other 5 books to develop), there is nothing to differentiate them as being any more or less likely than each other to develop a deeper relationship with Harry. In this Luna is a much bigger threat to Ginny than to Hermione.
Also aren't you worried about Luna? Since you seem to think that Luna has taken much of a role in Harry's life why can't she take over Hermione's role?
Not at all. She’s no more or less likely to take over Hermione’s role than Ginny is – that’s my point. They both shared similar moments with Harry in OotP. Hermione is the most differentiated out of the three because of her history with and relationship to Harry. If anything Ginny and Luna are more likely to compete with each other than with Hermione for Harry’s affection (if indeed they compete with each other at all). Hermione’s role at this point be superceded even were she and Harry to remain just friends. I also find it interesting that some talk about Hermione’s role in Harry’s life as one that needs to be ‘taken over’. If they are just platonic friends than why would this need to be the case? (see Krum and Cho for the fact that this is indeed an issue).

She is indeed the anti-Hermione, which has implications for Hermione’s relationship with Ron and not Harry. I find it interesting that one of the main dynamics between Luna and Ron is her acceptance of him exactly as he is (see ‘I wouldn’t have minded’ comment), compared to Hermione’s need to constantly challenge Ron to change into something he isn’t.
[QUOTE]The Grangers are not important to the plot. They are boring, non-magical and by now it's late to introduced a sister for Hermione. It's very comforting to hear that because now I feel at ease that Hermione's parent's are safe and probably won't get killed. Obviously if we are late to introduced a sister and JKR is keeping them deliveratedly hidden they are not going to come up into this story for much. I can assume though that we will see them in the train stations etc like it has been as of now but not coming into the story.

I’m not one of those H/Hr shippers who thinks that it would be necessary for the Granger family to be attacked in order for H/Hr to happen but it is interesting that in one of the original versions of the PS opening chapter, baby Harry is found by the Grangers. While JKR decided that didn’t work, clearly when they were created they were considered important.

Sienna

[FlyingPhoenix]

I doubt either of her parents will die- (and certainly not both) for it would take away harrys harsh limelight, and the books would be more central about hermiones losses over harrys (Or harry would be mad at himself for being so angsty about his parents and Sirius's death, so then we have another angsty book)
but out of curiosity- what does this have to do with shipping?
Hermiones been in front of harrys nose for many many books, he has seen her good side, her bad sides etc. He has been in situations with her where people begin to realize they like each other- when other people say they do (a la Rita Skeeter) life threatening (too many to list while I am being lazy), when hermione is all dolled up (Yule Ball), When someone else likes the girl often the guy realizes hey I like her (yet this didnt happen with Krum or Ron- harry still doesnt like her)

Eh, did I say its a shipping point? I said its a reason why her parents aren't that important so we learn them to know. And aside this we are talking about a war which will you may guess it start with victims who are halfbreeds or muggleborns of course Hermione's parents die. Oh, please not the same music again, I know that by now that Harry knows Hermione sooooooo many years yet he is only since what? Since PoA interest in Girls? Or even only since GoF? What are you asking for? That he is after her and madly in love with her since eleven? Mind you most true feelings start with 15 or 16.


edit- also when harry thought mr weasley was dying he was more concerned "oh gosh Im responsible" then "he is dying! OMG!" so we werent feeling "oh harry lost someone"
plus, call me crazy but I think Ron may be more affected if the weasleys died, so someone harry loves (as a best friend) would be in pain,- no different from if hermiones parent(s) died- someone he loves (as a best friend) would be in pain

Ah, yeah- I didn't say that Ron would be less affected as Harry but we did feel more with Harry because you may guess again we are reading his feelings in such a case. But if its about people he also we barely know then we see a different POV of this situation.

Furthermore it doesnt' sound as JKR and it does seem like a bad translation.

How do you know its a bad translation? Do you speak German?

Sorry but until their is an official confirmation of QQ or someone like TLC I'm going to still consider this something like not real.

Ah, cool. Then I don't consider this uhm Couric Interview as real. Though we do have a clip but hey one can fool even this things.

Because at least the interview of 'it wouldn't be Hermione' several fans can recall it. This interview nobody has seen it.

Funny that's what I was refering to as I said I read once an interview by JKR in Stern however there wasn't such limitation: But's not Hermione.
Can I prove it? No. Maybe its a reason why we should rather read her books and not what she is talking all days long.

Aside this, IMHO do's that Quote nothing change. Maybe it questions the common argument by Herons but it don't say R/Hr is impossible. For once it would be great if we just start to accept JKR didn't say any of this ships won't happen. She is playing with you, not with me though, that she says stuff like that. In the end everything will come different or just barely like you did expect.

[Sienna]

Originally Posted by Krumpet
Okay I was this got me thinking about Ginny's origin as a character. Does anyone else find it her name odd? I mean look at the rest of the Weaselys; Arthur, Molly, Bill (Perhaps William), Charlie, Percy, Fred & George, Ron. All of the rest of the Weaslys have fairly common English names, well I don't know how common "Percy" is but at least it's not un heard of and it's English . But Ginny is "Ginevra". The an old Italian name. She appears to be the odd one out. Any thoughts, on what if anything, that might mean?

It’s a version of the name Guinevere and her name is in keeping with at least three others of her family – Arthur (King Arthur) and Percy (Percival) and Ron (the name of the King Arthur’s lance, originally called Rhongomynad in Welsh mythology)

Sienna

[PrettyVeela]

Ah, cool. Then I don't consider this uhm Couric Interview as real. Though we do have a clip but hey one can fool even this things.

Tell me that you're not comparing seeing JKR say it with her own mouth in an interview to a german interview in a magazine. I know you're trying to be snarky but come on Phoenix you're reaching.

As for the quote yes it can be badly translated if the person translating it is not fluent in the language. We had a problem with another quote before someone corrected it. Send it to TLC or mugglenet and see if they can validate the quote.

Can someone repost the quote? I don't want to look through a million pages but if JKR said that someone was a "bad writer" in the interview then that's a red flag right there. Thanks!

[sarahelizabeth]

Personally, I thought it was interesting how Ginny was portrayed in the Chamber of Secrets, in relation to Harry it seemed as though Harry returned some affection for her even though she seemed to have a girlish crush on him. I also noticed Ron and Hermoine seemed to be really close in the Prisoner of Azkaban. In a way I hope that Ron and Hermoine get together because Hermoine and Harry are both very independent and strong characters where Ron seems helpless at times. Hermoine seems a good match for Ron because they are opposites and compliment eachother's abilities.

note: I just started reading the books, so my comments are based on the movies
(I hope that noone is bothered by that)

[Moonstruck]

As for the quote yes it can be badly translated if the person translating it is not fluent in the language. We had a problem with another quote before someone corrected it. Send it to TLC or mugglenet and see if they can validate the quote.

I do believe FlyingPhoenix is German and has said the translation is correct.

[JordanL]

Personally, I thought it was interesting how Ginny was portrayed in the Chamber of Secrets, in relation to Harry it seemed as though Harry returned some affection for her even though she seemed to have a girlish crush on him. I also noticed Ron and Hermoine seemed to be really close in the Prisoner of Azkaban. In a way I hope that Ron and Hermoine get together because Hermoine and Harry are both very independent and strong characters where Ron seems helpless at times. Hermoine seems a good match for Ron because they are opposites and compliment eachother's abilities.

note: I just started reading the books, so my comments are based on the movies
(I hope that noone is bothered by that)

Well.... I'll tell you right now that the movies added and subtracted A LOT in this particular field of Divination.

Welcome though.

[Claudia]

I'd like to start a series of discussions on the Heron side of things*. While we Herons agree on the larger issue--that ultimately Ron and Hermione are going to get together (and stay that way)--I'm pretty sure we don't agree on the details. I'm curious about the small stuff. What I'd like to find out is if there is a majority Heron view for certain issues--that way I'd be able to say in my posts "Most Herons would say (but I'm in the minority)..." and stuff like that, and perhaps would even make it less likely (for the space of about a day, at least) for other folks to make overly sweeping statements about what "we" think.

So here's my first question: As of the end of OotP, do you think that Ron understands his feelings for Hermione? If you answer "yes," when do you think he figured it out?

My answer would be "yes." Ron finally "gets it." He understands how he feels and what he wants, and the issue now is how to go about winning Hermione over, if it's even possible. I would date this from the good-luck kiss.

*I'd do the same thing for Harmony, but it's bound to be taken the wrong way by the Harmonians--if one of you guys wanted to try it out, though, I think it would be interesting!

[PrettyVeela]

I do believe FlyingPhoenix is German and has said the translation is correct.

But hasn't Phoenix also said that sometimes she has trouble with english? Phoniex I remember you on the DT and sometimes when we debated you would say that sometimes you had trouble with your english. I'm not saying it's not true if you said it checks out but I want more than one person to validate this quote. I'm having a hard time accepting that JK is THAT catty. :sad:



According to esicardi's post, it was "published in German newspaper Frankfurter Rundschau on the 07/08/2000". If you communicate with the paper, I will pay for it.

This quote has been around since 2000?:wow: And nobody has found it before this? Wow.

[JordanL]

Hmmm... I have another question. We all have our own opinions about what the end result may be, but what do you think is the msot likely scenario at the moment for your favorite couple? During the summer? Christmas? Seventh year?

Personally, I see two distinct possibilities: one very much Heron, and one very much Harmonian.

If neither Harry nor Ron pay much attention, (or abnormal attention), to Hermione in book six, then Ron and Hermione will definately end up together, as this is a signal that Ron has matured past the crush stage.

If Ron and Hermione "go out" in book six, I think it's just about the end of Heron. Introducing something such as this, especially as a subplot, that lasts for two books, which are argueably the two most important books, is very suspect. I would think that were such a relationship to develop around Halloween-Christmas of sixth year, then it would more or less peter out by the end of the year/next summer, and Harmonian would be the scene in book seven.

Now, both of these situations agree fully with the most oft quoted JKR piece on this about "potential", as both explore the URST with Ron first, however they show a very set timeline.

Those are my personal opinions on the matter, but I'm sure that everyone has their own theories on how couple A or couple B will turn out.

[The Leprechaun]

I'd like to start a series of discussions on the Heron side of things*. While we Herons agree on the larger issue--that ultimately Ron and Hermione are going to get together (and stay that way)--I'm pretty sure we don't agree on the details. I'm curious about the small stuff. What I'd like to find out is if there is a majority Heron view for certain issues--that way I'd be able to say in my posts "Most Herons would say (but I'm in the minority)..." and stuff like that, and perhaps would even make it less likely (for the space of about a day, at least) for other folks to make overly sweeping statements about what "we" think.

So here's my first question: As of the end of OotP, do you think that Ron understands his feelings for Hermione? If you answer "yes," when do you think he figured it out?

My answer would be "yes." Ron finally "gets it." He understands how he feels and what he wants, and the issue now is how to go about winning Hermione over, if it's even possible. I would date this from the good-luck kiss.

*I'd do the same thing for Harmony, but it's bound to be taken the wrong way by the Harmonians--if one of you guys wanted to try it out, though, I think it would be interesting!

Yes, I'd also say that it comes from the kiss before Quidditch. That does set off a few things that occur later. Such as; the post kiss scene (Ron's words), the perfume, Ron's behvior, and Ron's book comment.

[Kia]

The credibility that you should be questioning is of this translation or this person that will need you to buy the book to see the interview. In one Blyton is a good writter and in the other she's a bad writter and a liar. Really huge inconsistensies and one of them do not mesh up with JKR usual answering pattern.


JKR is contradicting herself either Harry had to be an orphan or he had to had some family. JKR has been very clear on the fact of why Harry had to be an orphan as I previously quoted before.


Dear Gily Ann,

You are questioning my credibility by extension and I don't appreciate it. One - Rowling says nowhere in this interview that Harry has got to have a family only that he is searching for one. (As a defender of the OBHWF you should celebrate that.) But nowhere the necessity for him being an orphan is doubted. Rowling makes a general comment on the necessity of family, but it's like the Cruciatus Curse - it might be bad, generally speaking, and it still happens to our hero.

Two - according to TWO independent native speakers the translation is accurate. Whether the original English-to-German translation is accurate, is another question, but you have to ask yourself three questions:

1. What can go wrong with "I don't believe that fourteen-year-olds can truly fall in love" when translating it from one European language to another?

2. What interest does the English-to-German translater would have in changing the meaning of what originally has been said?

3. Would you question the English-to-German translation if it was your fabled "Harry will fall in love with someone who has been there from the start, but not Hermione" quote?

I doubt it. So all this holier-than-thou stuff is just posturing, because you don't like the quote.


Rowling never said that she thinks that Blyton is a good writer, period. The full Blyton bit goes like this:

Q: Mrs. Rowling, angenommen Sie wuerden zum High Tea im Club der toten Dichter eingeladen – neben wem wuerden Sie lieber sitzen. Charles Dickens oder Enid Blyton?

Muss Enid Blyton wirklich dabei sein?

Q: Sie koennen sie wieder ausladen.

Sehr gut. Ich wuerde viel lieber mit Charles Dickens reden. Sein Roman David Copperfield hat mich sehr beruehrt. Er schrieb dort, wie schmerzlich der Abschied von Characteren ist, mit denen man jahrelang zusammengelebt hat. Das sind die Geister, die einen Autor begleiten. Mit Harry geht es mir genauso. Jemand, der nicht schreibt, kann das nie verstehen.

Q: Was haben Sie denn gegen Enid Blyton?

Sie war keine gute Schriftstellerin. Nur fuer ganz kleine Kinder konnte sie gut schreiben, weil sie sehr konkret war. Für aeltere Kinder was sie voellig uninteressant. Nie erlaubt sie ihren Figuren Hanni und Nanni oder den fuenf Freunden erwachsener zu werden. Nie verschwenden diese 14-Jaehrigen einen Gedanken an sexuelle Gefuehle, nie haben sie einen schlechten Wunsch. Es gab immer nur die bitterboesen Verbrecher und die anstaendigen reizenden Mittelklasse-Kinder. Bei ihr steht Mutti immer in der Kueche und backt Kuchen, waehrend Daddy das Auto repariert. Aber Kinder erleben den Alltag nie so harmonisch. Enid Blyton was einfach eine Luegnerin. Wenn wir uns je getroffen haetten, waere sie von mir sowieso nicht begeistert gewesen – ich rauche zuviel.

Translate it yourself if you don't trust any other translators. Oh, and you won't find any confirmation with the TLC, they consist mainly of Americans (do they even have a Brit or an Aussie?), so they hardly can confirm anything they don't have any access to. Ask Phoenixwriter or someone with access to a German library and understanding of the German language to help you with this - maybe you should try to e-mail the publishers of the book that by chance do also have direct ties to Rowling as they are her publishers. But don't expect confirmation from people who cannot do anymore than you can do.

The best thing I can do for you is to give you the complete quote that is only quoted partially in the last paragraph of the first Amazon review:

...wie ihre Bücher behandelt werden sollen: "Das Buch sah schrecklich aus - das Cover zerfleddert, die Seiten gewellt, offensichtlich war es in die Badewanne gefallen. (...) Genauso müssen meine Bücher aussehen. Je zerlesener, desto besser". Andererseits hat sie eine Leserin....

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3551351074/qid=1102656387/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/

The bit the reviewer cut looks like this:

...offensichtlich war es in die Badewanne gefallen. Ich schickte den Vater, um seinen Sohn zu holen, und sagte zu ihm: "Er soll sich nicht schaemen. Genauso muessen meine Buecher aussehen...."


EDIT:This quote has been around since 2000?:wow: And nobody has found it before this? Wow.

There is a a three hours interview with a Swiss journalist that at least partially was published in 1999, do you think anyone has ever bothered to find it, re-publish it and/or translate it? No. There is a lot of publicity Rowling has done that has not been published on the net. Who knows what Rowling has said to the random Japanese interviewer in 2000? Who knows what gems some Italian newspaper once published? If no one tries to find out, it won't be found, not in ten years, not in one-hundred years. Four years are nothing compared to the fact that if my friend and I hadn't cared, you wouldn't know about this interview for another four years, probably even never.

[Corbin Dallas]

I had a friend of mine in Switzerland check the translation and she seemed to think it was accurate, but she can't confirm the newspaper part, there's a book at Amazon sure enough, anyone wantt to buy it and check the biblio, that should be helpful, get me ;)
CD
if anyone is doubting FP on this, my friend is a professional translator and said that that quote was a good translation...
CD
just for some back up FP, I'm not always arguemenative ;)

[Copo]

note: I just started reading the books, so my comments are based on the moviesI'm jealous! I wish I could be just starting to read the books again. You're in for a great adventure!

[AmmoniaAlert]

But hasn't Phoenix also said that sometimes she has trouble with english? Phoniex I remember you on the DT and sometimes when we debated you would say that sometimes you had trouble with your english. I'm not saying it's not true if you said it checks out but I want more than one person to validate this quote. I'm having a hard time accepting that JK is THAT catty. :sad:

Did somebody post a link to the interview in German?

I asked about it earlier today, but there are so many new pages since then, and I porobably won't have time to search through them all.

[PrettyVeela]

Did somebody post a link to the interview in German?

I asked about it earlier today, but there are so many new pages since then, and I porobably won't have time to search through them all.


Well Kia has posted more about it and I think people are sending questions to the magazine. I agree I'm not going to read 19873923749028 pages to find it, lol

Dear Gily Ann,

You are questioning my credibility by extension and I don't appreciate it. One - Rowling says nowhere in this interview that Harry has got to have a family only that he is searching for one. (As a defender of the OBHWF you should celebrate that.) But nowhere the necessity for him being an orphan is doubted. Rowling makes a general comment on the necessity of family, but it's like the Cruciatus Curse, it might be bad, generall speaking and it still happens to our hero.

Come off it Kia. If I had come in here with a 4 year old interview and thrown it out there you KNOW you would ask for a second opinion and there's nothing wrong with questioning it. It seems as if you thought just that was going to happen.

People still don't believe quotes they've read or seen with their own two eyes, what makes you any different?


Two - according to TWO independent native speakers the translation is accurate. Whether the original English-to-German translation is accurate, is another question, but you have to ask yourself three questions:


Who was the other person besides phoniexwriter? Have you sent this inteview to TLC or mugglenet? We know they have contacts to validate the quotes.

Thanks for reposting the interview.

[Copo]

What can go wrong with "I don't believe that fourteen-year-olds can truly fall in love" when translating it from one European language to another?I don't know what the problem would be in the translation from English to German to English but I do think you have a problem with a translation of the meaning behind the words. Fourteen year olds cannot fall in love no matter how much they might believe they are in love. I think this is what Rowling meant (if the interview is authentic). Take Macaulay Culkin for example. At 16 he swore he was in love with some girl and insisted he be allowed to get married. At 17 he did. Shortly after they're divorced. Children don't know what love is and I doubt anyone really knows what love is until they've been through a few relationships; even then I doubt they know. One might have to be well into their twenties before understanding what true love is.

Edit: Just for kicks, here's the interview translated from dictionary.com translator (http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/text.html)
Q: Mrs. Rowling, assumed you were invited to the High Tea in the club of the dead poets - beside whom you would rather sit. Charles of thickening or Enid Blyton?

Does Enid Blyton have to be real thereby?

Q: They can unload it again.

Very well. I would much rather talk with Charles of thickening. His novel David Copperfield affected me very much. There it wrote, how painful the parting from Characteren is, with which one for many years lived together. Those are the spirit, which accompanies an author. With Harry am I exactly the same. Someone, which does not write, can never understand that.

Q: What do you have against Enid Blyton?

She was not a good authoress. Only for completely small children it could write well, because it was very concrete. For older children which it completely uninteresting. It never permits to become their figures Hanni and Nanni or the five friends of adults. This 14-Jaehrigen never wastes a thought to sexual feelings, never has it a bad desire. There were in each case the bitter-bad criminals and the decent attractive middle class children. With it mummy always stands in the kitchen and bakes cakes, while Daddy repairs the car. But children experience the everyday life never so harmoniously. Enid Blyton which simply a Luegnerin. If we had ever met, them would have been anyway not inspired by me - I smoke too much.

Edit #2: Translating the two reviews:
...wie ihre Bücher behandelt werden sollen: "Das Buch sah schrecklich aus - das Cover zerfleddert, die Seiten gewellt, offensichtlich war es in die Badewanne gefallen. (...) Genauso müssen meine Bücher aussehen. Je zerlesener, desto besser". Andererseits hat sie eine Leserin....

... like their books to be treated are: "the book looked terrible - the Cover zerfleddert, the sides curved, obviously was it into the bath tub pleases (...) exactly the same must my books look. The more zerlesener, the better ". On the other hand it has a reader....


...offensichtlich war es in die Badewanne gefallen. Ich schickte den Vater, um seinen Sohn zu holen, und sagte zu ihm: "Er soll sich nicht schaemen. Genauso muessen meine Buecher aussehen...."

... it was obvious into the bath tub pleases. I sent the father, in order to get its son, and said to him: "he is not to be ashamed. Exactly the same my books must look...."

[PrettyVeela]

Edit: Just for kicks, here's the interview translated from dictionary.com


Q: Mrs. Rowling, assumed you were invited to the High Tea in the club of the dead poets - beside whom you would rather sit. Charles of thickening or Enid Blyton?

Does Enid Blyton have to be real thereby?

Q: They can unload it again.

Very well. I would much rather talk with Charles of thickening. His novel David Copperfield affected me very much. There it wrote, how painful the parting from Characteren is, with which one for many years lived together. Those are the spirit, which accompanies an author. With Harry am I exactly the same. Someone, which does not write, can never understand that.

Q: What do you have against Enid Blyton?

She was not a good authoress. Only for completely small children it could write well, because it was very concrete. For older children which it completely uninteresting. It never permits to become their figures Hanni and Nanni or the five friends of adults. This 14-Jaehrigen never wastes a thought to sexual feelings, never has it a bad desire. There were in each case the bitter-bad criminals and the decent attractive middle class children. With it mummy always stands in the kitchen and bakes cakes, while Daddy repairs the car. But children experience the everyday life never so harmoniously. Enid Blyton which simply a Luegnerin. If we had ever met, them would have been anyway not inspired by me - I smoke too much.

OH MY WORD! :upset: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :upset: :upset:

[Kia]

Come off it Kia. If I had come in here with a 4 year old interview and thrown it out there you KNOW you would ask for a second opinion and there's nothing wrong with questioning it. It seems as if you thought just that was going to happen.

Only I haven't come in here with a four-year old interview. And I had no intention of posting it here or anywhere but the place I originally posted it in. To see it posted here was something I did not have any interest in.

People still don't believe quotes they've read or seen with their own two eyes, what makes you any different?

C'est moi. Seriously, I consider the premature condemnation of GilyAnn as problematic, because she's doing it before checking the source. Come on, you good shippers have got to have some bored German on-board to find this book somewhere and confirm this interview's validity. I can't offer much more than I do already. What do you want from me or my friend that has you believing that this interview is legit? I guess even a scan of that bloody book or at least the pages with the interview wouldn't convince you, let alone giving you the un-translated rest of the interview beyond the Blyton bits. Not that I am interested in doing a bit of copyright violation before lunch.

But to give you something that is easily accessible and doesn't violate any copyrights:

If you search form the interviewers' names in Google you get a confirmation of their existence and that they work for the newspaper in question - the "Frankfurter Rundschau" in case you have forgotten:

http://www.google.com/search?q=barbara+mauersberg&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Martin+Scholz+rundschau&btnG=Search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=Ulla+Schickling&btnG=Search

EDIT: The second person was... someone with a friend in Switzerland, but I've forgotten this debater's name already. It's somewhere in the late 60s of this thread.


I don't know what the problem would be in the translation from English to German to English but I do think you have a problem with a translation of the meaning behind the words. Fourteen year olds cannot fall in love no matter how much they might believe they are in love.

And I argued that how? Did I assign any meaning to this interview in this debate? How do you get the idea that I disagree with the notion that fourteen-year-olds can't fall in love in a way that deserves that term? Please.

[AmmoniaAlert]

OH MY WORD! :upset: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :upset: :upset:

:rotfl: Charles Dickens=Charles of thickening!

[PrettyVeela]

Only I haven't come in here with a four-year old interview. And I had no intention of posting it here or anywhere but the place I originally posted it in. To see it posted here was something I did not have any interest in.


Then blame your shipmates for posting it and not us. If you had no intention of posting it and you were the one that found it then I'm assuming that they didn't get your permission to post it?



C'est moi. Seriously, I consider the premature condemnation of GilyAnn as problematic, because she's doing it before checking the source. Come on, you good shippers have got to have some bored German on-board to find this book somewhere and confirm this interview's validity. I can't offer much more than I do already. What do you want from me or my friend that has you believing that this interview is legit? I guess even a scan of that bloody book or at least the pages with the interview wouldn't convince you, let alone giving you the un-translated rest of the interview beyond the Blyton bits. Not that I am interested in doing a bit of copyright violation before lunch.



So why even mention it? Like I said before we have people who don't even believe the quotes we know for a fact to be true so there's no reason to be surprised by the reaction to this four year old interview that nobody on either ship has seen or quoted after all these years of debating.

TLC and mugglenet have more contacts to validate the interview than most of us so yes I'm more comfortable with them validating it than a bunch of H/Hr, R/Hr, Luna/Squid shippers. *shrug*

[The Leprechaun]

All I have to say about that interview is that it most likely is a decent translation, with maybe one or two mistakes, if that (and with 3-4 confrimations, even one Heron or maybe one more).

The beef I have with it is its meaning. To me it has no extremely negative connotations, just that two people falling completely and utterly in love at 14 is rare. It doesn't sink any ship, or look too bad for any ship. Maybe, it could be argued as a little bit anti-Heron, but it isn't outright bad. It, like the "Harry need Hermione, badly" is one of the only two good JKR quotes that paint Harmony in a little bit better light. I exclude the "Wrong People" quote, as JKR herself kills off that one as anti-Heron.

So, I don't think people should question the German-English translation.

[WhoAmI]

So here's my first question: As of the end of OotP, do you think that Ron understands his feelings for Hermione? If you answer "yes," when do you think he figured it out?

My answer would be "yes." Ron finally "gets it." He understands how he feels and what he wants, and the issue now is how to go about winning Hermione over, if it's even possible. I would date this from the good-luck kiss.Yes, and I would also date it from the kiss.

I'm not hard-core Heron, but I'm aboard because it seems the most likely ship at this point IMO. I don't dive into the Love Thread too often because I just can't keep up with the frantic speed of the posts, but I do like to read it!

[Kia]

Then blame your shipmates for posting it and not us. If you had no intention of posting it and you were the one that found it then I'm assuming that they didn't get your permission to post it?

Why do you think the last paragraph of that LJ post said:


Sixth, the first person, who uses the 'fourteen-year-olds cannot truly fall in love' thing in a ship debate, gets nothing. The first person that uses that quote outside this journal while linking to this page, gets a flocked LJ entry instead one that is available to everyone. Copy and paste is your friend. And if you need a source, just name it: Mauersberg, Schickling, Scholz - "Ich bin eine Feministin auf hohen Absaetzen" - Frankfurter Rundschau supplement 07/08/2000

That being re-posted, I am going to friends-lock that entry, because I said I'd do it if it got it linked and it did.

But to not make the impression that I have any doubts in the veracity of the thing I give you something you can continue link to:

*snip intro, having tea with Dickens, but never Enid Blyton!*

Q: What do you have against Enid Blyton?

She wasn't a good writer *snip*

Never waste these fourteen-year olds a thought on sexual feelings, never do they have a bad wish. There are only the evil criminals and the decent, nice middle-class kids. In her books mother is always in the kitchen baking cake while father repairs the car. But children never experience (a) life so harmonious(ly). Enid Blyton was just a liar. If we had ever met, she wouldn't have liked me - I smoke too much.

Q: The life of your hero Harry Potter often resembles this of the orphans Oliver Twist and David Copperfield. But he desires a harmonious family of an Enid Blyton.

You are right, Harry wants to be loved. But ironically his foster family is the realistic version of the Blyton family: Aunt Petunia is in the kitchen baking cake, Uncle Vernon earns the money. But a truly happy family life experiences Harry at best with the Weasleys, the parents of his friend Ron. But they have problems, too. They are a nice family, but they are poor.

*snip money in children's books and lives, HP as obsession, Rowling as "pop author", comparisons to the fan-culture of Star Wars, the reading kids, reading James Bond, Sean Connery as the best Bond, James Bond not being feminist and Rowling disliking it, Bond's best attribute being British, "eternal evil" and Rowling invoking Godwin's Law, psycho-analysing evil dictators, morality (Rowling is for it)*

Q: What kind of importance has family still nowadays?

Nearly every child is happier in a family. Studies have shown that even a bad family situation is often better than a childhood in an orphanage. I am divorced myself and live only with my daughter. We are the smallest possible family unit. Families can be very different. I know gay parents, who do it very well. Family doesn't consist of a mother, a father and two kids anymore. What you need is a group of people who have decided to belong together and that love each other enough. Something like this is what Harry is searching for.

*snip single mothers, John Major, not being a role model for single mothers, Tony Blair, British politics regarding single mothers*

Q: Would you call yourself a feminist?
I always had a feminist concept for myself, I still do. My family consists of women. When I was pregnant I wished for a daughter. And that's what I got. I am a liberal feminist. But one who wears high heels.

*snips reading to her daughter, the future non-existence of drugs and teenage pregnancies in HP, Nancy Stouffer and Company, killing Cedric*

Q: Is Harry going to fall in love [in Book Four]?
I don't believe that fourteen-year-olds can truly fall in love. There are other words for that. He is going to discover girls. He likes a girl, but she doesn't like him in the same way. That was very important for me. I wanted him to grow in a realistic manner.

The original:
(Ich glaube nicht, dass 14-Jaehrige sich ernsthaft verlieben. Es gibt andere Worte dafuer. Er wird die Maedchen entdecken. Er mag ein Maedchen, das ihn allerdings nicht genauso mag. Das war sehr wichtig fuer mich. Ich wollte dass er auf realistische Art waechst.)

Q: Had the readers any influence on the fourth novel with their letters and e-mails?

No, but they tried.

*snip Rowling not going to pull a Dickens to resurrect dead but beloved characters if the audience just wants it enough*


Ulla Schickling, Barbara Mauersberg, Martin Scholz - Frankfurter Rundschau supplement ("Magazin") - 07/08/2004

http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3551351074/qid=1102465837/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl/302-5620318-7136065

So why even mention it?

Because I thought that I could post about an interview with dear Ms Rowling and her calling herself a feminist in my LJ, if I want to without a bunch of rabid shippers questioning - even by extension - my credibility, just because the practice of posting interviews in non-English languages is not a common practice.


TLC and mugglenet have more contacts to validate the interview than most of us ...
How are a bunch of Americans going to validate an interview published four years ago in Germany? What kind of contacts do these people have? They might have contact to the Christopher Little Agency, Bloomsbury, Schlastic and/or the WB, but how could any of these contacts help you here? Get real, neither TLC nor Mugglenet are omniscient.

[Polychrome]

Yeah, but those Heron's.... they got them long necks.... and the unnatural need for fish....

Have you tried the squid jerky? *passes the bag* :evil:

[PrettyVeela]

Why do you think the last paragraph of that LJ post said:


Sixth, the first person, who uses the 'fourteen-year-olds cannot truly fall in love' thing in a ship debate, gets nothing. The first person that uses that quote outside this journal while linking to this page, gets a flocked LJ entry instead one that is available to everyone. Copy and paste is your friend. And if you need a source, just name it: Mauersberg, Schickling, Scholz - "Ich bin eine Feministin auf hohen Absaetzen" - Frankfurter Rundschau supplement 07/08/2000

That being re-posted, I am going to friends-lock that entry, because I said I'd do it if it got it linked and it did.


I didn't read your journal and I don't look at your journal to tell you the truth. You should have locked it in the first place to avoid all this if you didn't want it linked.


How are a bunch of Americans going to validate an interview published four years ago in Germany? What kind of contacts do these people have? They might have contact to the Christopher Little Agency, Bloomsbury, Schlastic and/or the WB, but how could any of these contacts help you here? Get real, neither TLC nor Mugglenet are omniscient.


And neither are you which is why people doubted the interview in the first place. For you to be upset at GilyAnn for questioning the interview, oh excuse me your reputation, is laughable. It's 4 years old and never been used in a shipping debate, even when the DT was the hottest debate thread and people searched for interviews and quotes all day every day.

I personally don't think the interview is bad for my ship at all and I'm more disappointed in JKR's catty response than anything else. We have another quote that recently came about from another interview abroad and we still don't have that one confirmed either.

[Kia]

I didn't read your journal and I don't look at your journal to tell you the truth. You should have locked it in the first place to avoid all this if you didn't want it linked.

Excuse me, but I post at my LJ how and what I want. And yes, there are things I want to share with the general public without wanting them to end up on the LT or DT. I thought it could be done.

For you to be upset at GilyAnn for questioning the interview, oh excuse me your reputation, is laughable. It's 4 years old and never been used in a shipping debate, even when the DT was the hottest debate thread and people searched for interviews and quotes all day every day.

And whose fault is that? Mine? Yours? You are getting high and mighty about it not being used before, but really you cannot do that without accusing me of making it up. That it has been not used before is not an argument for its non-existence only a testament of the misbegotten belief that all sources for Rowling quotes have been exhausted when there is a whole area of foreign language interviews no one ever bothers to look at.

So what is it?

Why do't you e-mail the German publisher and ask them about that quote and that book and that interview and ask Rowling's German publisher (which they are, too) if it is genuine. Ask a German fan, ask around a German forum, ask independent people who are porentially able to know something about this instead of relying on authority that has no clue in this regard. You don't even try. You just accuse me of making this up. That's the sad thing about the affair.

We have another quote that recently came about from another interview abroad and we still don't have that one confirmed either.

And which would that be? Not that I care, since we have here a whole interview and not just one quote.

[The Leprechaun]

Why do we continue talking about it's validity. It matters not, as it does seem to exist. Argue the substance and not the validity, it just doesn't make sense for anyone to continue on this train, when it is only going to get someone extremely irritated.

[Angua9]

I don't agree that the fact that Ginny came after Ron makes her unimportant. There are a number of other things that came after Ron that are very important, including the characters I listed before, the prophecy, etc. If I remember correctly, JKR said that she envisioned Harry first and then Ron and Hermione (his sidekicks - as she's said) right afterwards.
Actually, she told Lindsay Fraser (available in book form, not online) that the following characters appeared to her on the train on the day she first "saw" Harry:

Harry
Ron
Nearly Headless Nick
Hagrid
Peeves

So a lot of characters were "afterthoughts" compared to that, inclulding Hermione, Voldemort, Dumbledore, Dudley, Draco Malfoy, and my own personal favorite, Snape.

[PrettyVeela]

Excuse me, but I post at my LJ how and what I want. And yes, there are things I want to share with the general public without wanting them to end up on the LT or DT. I thought it could be done.

And it wasn't and here we are.



And whose fault is that? Mine? Yours? You are getting high and mighty about it not being used before, but really you cannot do that without accusing me of making it up. That it has been not used before is not an argument for its non-existence only a testament of the misbegotten belief that all sources for Rowling quotes have been exhausted when there is a whole area of foreign language interviews no one ever bothers to look at.

So what is it?


So are you saying that if I had quoted that interview that you'd automatically 100% believe it? Please kia you're not fooling me. There's nothing wrong with anyone questioning if the interview is 100% valid and translated correctly and if it is then that's great and you've found another interview for us to quote from, what's the big deal here? You seem to be the one getting huffy and puffy over people simply asking for the interview to be validated by others.

As for people not looking at language interviews I beg to differ. Do they get as much attention as the english ones? No I agree with you on that that they don't. But I do remember people finding interviews from other sources that weren't english and quoting them. SugarQuill also has a thread for JKR interviews and quotes and I've seen people post things from other places that weren't in english.


Why do't you e-mail the German publisher and ask them about that quote and that book and that interview and ask Rowling's German publisher (which they are, too) if it is genuine. Ask a German fan, ask around a German forum, ask independent people who are porentially able to know something about this instead of relying on authority that has no clue in this regard. You don't even try. You just accuse me of making this up. That's the sad thing about the affair.

kia I don't think you made it up but some of the translation is sketchy. Like I said I remember an interview she did in ENGLISH that was slightly quoted wrong and it was corrected. It wasn't made up but it was transcripted wrong. It happens kia.



And which would that be? Not that I care, since we have here a whole interview and not just one quote.

If you don't care then why did you ask? :rotfl: It was a small interview with JKR that was quoted on the love thread 38 I believe. A person posted the cover of the mag and the inverview and from what I know it's never been confirmed, even when people tried to contact the so called magazine.

So here's my first question: As of the end of OotP, do you think that Ron understands his feelings for Hermione? If you answer "yes," when do you think he figured it out?

Yes I really do think so. And interesting enough I wonder if some Herons think that Ron "got it" in the part we didn't witness, the time alone they had at Grimmald place? I don't see many herons saying that and just wondering if there are some that think so.



So a lot of characters were "afterthoughts" compared to that, inclulding Hermione, Voldemort, Dumbledore, Dudley, Draco Malfoy, and my own personal favorite, Snape.

Ah Snape. How ever could HE be an afterthought? *hugs Snape* bother bother bother!

[AmmoniaAlert]

Why do't you e-mail the German publisher and ask them about that quote and that book and that interview and ask Rowling's German publisher (which they are, too) if it is genuine.

Just a question: is this book by any chance the same as
"Conversations with J.K. Rowling
by Lindsey Fraser" ?

[The Leprechaun]

Just a question: is this book by any chance the same as
"Conversations with J.K. Rowling
by Lindsey Fraser" ?

I saw her original post on her LJ or whatever it is called, but I don't think it is. I'm not sure though.

[Kia]

So are you saying that if I had quoted that quote that you'd automatically 100% believe it? Please kia you're not fooling me. There's nothing wrong with anyone questioning if the interview is 100% valid and if it is then that's great and you've found another interview for us to quote from, what's the big deal here? You seem to be the one getting huffy and puffy over people simply asking for the interview to be validated by others.

And that's the problem. If you sit here, waiting for the might TLC to confirm this, you will never get anything. If you want a confirmation of the existence/non-existence of the interview, then it you can't rely on "others" to drop by and tell you what you want to know. It requires work and imagination trying to figure out where you can get the information you need. You don't want to rely on me - fine. You want to rely on some higher power - not fine. You have your friendslist, you little clubs and forums, internet access and as much information about the thing as I have been able to give you. Do something if you don't want to believe me. But doubting me just for the heck of it, while you sit idly around, no that doesn't sit well with me.

But I do remember people finding interviews from other sources that weren't english and quoting them.

Re-translated interviews? Really, with one and a half exception I cannot remember any of those actually surfacing in fandom.


Like I said I remember an interview she did in ENGLISH that was slightly quoted wrong and it was corrected. It wasn't made up but it was transcripted wrong. It happens kia.


And what does you irk so much about the transcription - if you think there was a mistake, can you tell me where it went wrong? They hardly can described the whole interview wrong. So what specifics do you have in mind. And if it is the "truly fall in love bit" - what do you think Rowling originally meant? If it is something else, how is this of interest here?

But really, there are two instances you can mean here: One was the BBC, they are British, they have a reputation to lose, they have no excuses and for two years they had a transcription up that said "Half-loved Prince." There is a second instance where a chat transcript clearly to this very day has Rowling promising to use the name Icicle. Rowling denies that, however one wonders what Rowling wanted to say originally, because opposed to half-loved this quote doesn't really give much opportunity for such great misunderstandings.

However if you use the half-blood prince affair as a measure to look at the veracity of Rowling quotes, then you cannot take any Rowling quote at face value. If the BBC could transcribe this wrong, who says that AOL cannot? Or Scholastic or The Times or whatever. But somehow I don't see anyone doing that, so I am hardly unreasonable if I request that you should use the same amount of generosity regarding the transcription you allow any other source.


It was a small interview with JKR that was quoted on the love thread 38 I believe.
Well, that would be only 2000 posts to go through.

EDIT: *

Just a question: is this book by any chance the same as
"Conversations with J.K. Rowling
by Lindsey Fraser" ?

I think that is the main part of the book, they translated Fraser's stuff and they added other bits into it, so it isn't one-to-one Conversations with J.K. Rowling.

[Archidemes]

I don't understand ONE thing. Pls forgive my ignorance.... Neville and Hermione? :shrug:

[The Leprechaun]

I don't understand ONE thing. Pls forgive my ignorance.... Neville and Hermione? :shrug:

What don't you understand?


By the way, :birthday: enid.

[JordanL]

But somehow I don't see anyone doing that, so I am hardly unreasonable if I request that you should use the same amount of generosity regarding the transcription you allow any other source.

But... that would require a person to create their beliefs around the facts, instead of mold the facts to their beliefs.... HERESY!

You might as well ask them to not be human, for the latter is inexplicably connected to the former in a way which can only be explained as dicotimous.

[AmmoniaAlert]

I saw her original post on her LJ or whatever it is called, but I don't think it is. I'm not sure though.

Okay, I searched a bit more and found this in a reader's review at amazon.de for the book:
"Zuerst findet man ein ausführliches Interview von Lindsey Fraser (ist im englischen auch solo erschienen)"

Translation: First one finds a detailed interview from Lindsey Fraser (is also published solo in english).

This is most likely the book I asked about earlier (contains just the interview in question with JKR), and it sounds like this German book has added more quotes, interviews, drawings, an article about the HP books by Steven King, and such.
Sounds like it's only about the first four books, though, unless the reader's review saying this is wrong, which is possible.

Here is the link to the amazon.de page with the reviews:


http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3551351074/qid%3D1102656387/ref%3Dsr%5F8%5Fxs%5Fap%5Fi1%5Fxgl/302-4721485-9011215


EDIT:

I think that is the main part of the book, they translated Fraser's stuff and they added other bits into it, so it isn't one-to-one Conversations with J.K. Rowling.

Thanks for the info!

Our posts must have crossed :)

[The Leprechaun]

Okay, I searched a bit more and found this in a reader's review at amazon.de for the book:
"Zuerst findet man ein ausführliches Interview von Lindsey Fraser (ist im englischen auch solo erschienen)"

Translation: First one finds a detailed interview from Lindsey Fraser (is also published solo in english).

This is most likely the book I asked about earlier (contains just the interview in question with JKR), and it sounds like this German book has added more quotes, interviews, drawings, an article about the HP books by Steven King, and such.
Sounds like it's only about the first four books, though, unless the reader's review saying this is wrong, which is possible.

Here is the link to the amazon.de page with the reviews:


http://www.amazon.de/exec/obidos/ASIN/3551351074/qid%3D1102656387/ref%3Dsr%5F8%5Fxs%5Fap%5Fi1%5Fxgl/302-4721485-9011215



Thanks for the info!

Our posts must have crossed :)

Okay. This page is full of Oregonians, mwuhahaha.

[Angua9]

That being re-posted, I am going to friends-lock that entry, because I said I'd do it if it got it linked and it did.

But to not make the impression that I have any doubts in the veracity of the thing I give you something you can continue link to:
Kia, thank you very much -- that was very kind of you! I'm sorry you had the bad experience of having this quoted without your permission and then having your intentions doubted. But I'm not too sorry, because otherwise I would never have heard of this most interesting interview. I have to say (allowing for the inevitable roughness of translating idiom from English to German to English) it sounds just like Jo to me!

Not only does it have (as you noted) the delightful instance of Rowling calling herself a "liberal feminist," but it also contains the first ever example I have seen of her referring to gay couples in an approving way, and a confirmation (which I have never seen before) that she read and enjoyed David Copperfield. Good stuff about the Dursleys, too.

I really like this interview! If Kia or anyone has more bits translated from this book I would love to read them. I would buy the book, but I couldn't understand a word of it.

Errr, ship-debate, ship-debate... I'm truly glad to get a confirmation that Jo knows better than that "in love" stuff that she throws around so carelessly sometimes.

[AmmoniaAlert]

I really like this interview! If Kia or anyone has more bits translated from this book I would love to read them. I would buy the book, but I couldn't understand a word of it.


It's available in English (the Lindsey Fraser interview only!):
Conversations with J.K. Rowling
by Lindsey Fraser

[GilyAnn]

How do you know its a bad translation? Do you speak German?

I don't need too. When JKR has been translated with such rude manners something that she has never been

Ah, cool. Then I don't consider this uhm Couric Interview as real. Though we do have a clip but hey one can fool even this things.

PrettyVeela actually answer this one for me. If you can see JKR's own face then what can I say.

Funny that's what I was refering to as I said I read once an interview by JKR in Stern however there wasn't such limitation: But's not Hermione.
Can I prove it? No. Maybe its a reason why we should rather read her books and not what she is talking all days long.

Aside this, IMHO do's that Quote nothing change. Maybe it questions the common argument by Herons but it don't say R/Hr is impossible. For once it would be great if we just start to accept JKR didn't say any of this ships won't happen. She is playing with you, not with me though, that she says stuff like that. In the end everything will come different or just barely like you did expect.

The quote doesn't do anything for R/Hr in fact it helps him because as Dayvedee says it answers the eternal question of Harmony shippers why R/Hr hasn't happen, not to mention that it doesn't talk about them it talks quite clearly about Harry. Also I'm sorry but JKR has been quite clear on that H/Hr are very platonic friends and on the stance of H/C and on D/Hr and for now I'm going to believe her word on the matter. She has already put an axe to those couples and to be honest it wasn't something that from canon you wouldn't get.

Dear Gily Ann,

You are questioning my credibility by extension and I don't appreciate it. One - Rowling says nowhere in this interview that Harry has got to have a family only that he is searching for one. (As a defender of the OBHWF you should celebrate that.) But nowhere the necessity for him being an orphan is doubted. Rowling makes a general comment on the necessity of family, but it's like the Cruciatus Curse - it might be bad, generally speaking, and it still happens to our hero.

Dear Kia:

Well I'm sorry but I can't change my opinion on this subject just to make you feel better. I'm not questioning your credibility, quite clearly in my posts I said that the credibility I was questioning is the many translators and that I have to buy a book to see this quote.

You also seem to have missed my question and doubts on the subject of Harry being an Orphan. I'm sorry but I have several problems with that interview and like prettyveela says I have hard time seeing JKR being that undiplomatic and that catty. Perhaps the person who originally translated JKR words was bad translating JKR words. I don't know and I don't care to be honest.

Two - according to TWO independent native speakers the translation is accurate. Whether the original English-to-German translation is accurate, is another question, but you have to ask yourself three questions:

1. What can go wrong with "I don't believe that fourteen-year-olds can truly fall in love" when translating it from one European language to another?

2. What interest does the English-to-German translater would have in changing the meaning of what originally has been said?

3. Would you question the English-to-German translation if it was your fabled "Harry will fall in love with someone who has been there from the start, but not Hermione" quote?

I doubt it. So all this holier-than-thou stuff is just posturing, because you don't like the quote.

I don't care about the quote, once again. It doesn't do anything for anyone. If you want to think that JKR is this rude to other people your right to do so, it's mine to think that this is not yet a confirmed JKR interview. Oh and just for the record yeap I wouldn't trust a translation. Perhaps there is a good reason why this translated interviews are not official and for now Im going to follow the masses on the idea. I think it's my right to do so.

Translate it yourself if you don't trust any other translators. Oh, and you won't find any confirmation with the TLC, they consist mainly of Americans (do they even have a Brit or an Aussie?), so they hardly can confirm anything they don't have any access to. Ask Phoenixwriter or someone with access to a German library and understanding of the German language to help you with this - maybe you should try to e-mail the publishers of the book that by chance do also have direct ties to Rowling as they are her publishers. But don't expect confirmation from people who cannot do anymore than you can do.

The best thing I can do for you is to give you the complete quote that is only quoted partially in the last paragraph of the first Amazon review:

I'm not going to email anyone on the subject. I'm not going to translate it, either. Why should I? I'm not interested in that quote it's you people who seem to have the need to shoved it down our throats. I see very little point in this interview. Oh and BTW I ship only H/G.

Sienna I will answer you next, but first I have to find that old post to post it along with my response if don't post it now I can forget.

GilyAnn

[yorkshirelass]

I'm new here, but speaking as a professional translator I would always personally question a translated interview. This is because I know how difficult it is to translate words written down unless you were actually there and can remember exactly what the intonation was and so on.

The European Union translates all its documents into the many official languages, but only the texts in their original language can be relied on in court.

Having said all that, I agree with those who have said that the quote makes no real difference one way or the other. It appears to have been published before the release of OOTP, which means it must refer to GOF. We already knew that in GOF everyone fancied the wrong person anyway - and JKR has herself said that Ron was aiming too high when he tried for Fleur. So I don't really think the article brings anything new to that bit of the debate.

edited for spelling
~ Yorkshirelass ~

[eyemlost]

Originally Posted by rjade829
I have a question. Let's say Ginny actually still likes Harry and she's just masking her feelings. Why would she lie to Hermione about her feelings then? It's disadvantageous to her. Since Hermione's so close to Harry, it would be a good thing for Ginny to have Hermione in the middle. But from what Hermione tells Harry in OOTP, it seems that Ginny has told Hermione that she's moving on, and Hermione tells this to Harry. If Hermione knew that Ginny still liked Harry, she shouldn't have told him this. Unless Ginny's masking her feelings around Hermione too, which doesn't make sense because like I said, Hermione could help her out. So do you think that Ginny told Hermione the truth about her feelings, and if not, why not?



I think that Ginny, if she did lie to Hermione, probably did so because of perhaps confusion as to where she truly stands. Like I said, she jumps around with her boyfriends in the fifth book, and, as a teenager, she's obviously not going to have everything in her emotions set perfectly straight. As for if she was really telling the truth, I think only J.K. Rowling could say for sure.

True, Hermione could help Ginny, and she would keep her secrets, but there's also a chance that Ginny is less secure with herself than she lets on. If she puts on a mask about her feelings for Harry, why not one for her confidence? Many times, it seems that the people who are always seem to be the most sure of themselves turn out to be extremely insecure. And then, of course, the whole mask concept with Ginny is just yet another one of my speculations. :p


Actually I think the wording of that whole statement is kind of important if you're a Chocolate shipper. Hermione says "she's given up on you" not "she's over you". That could be splitting hairs but they are different Ive given up on playing the lottery (after spending a whopping 5 dollars) but that certainly doesnt mean I dont want the money. Admitedly not the greatest example but....

*I know this is about 4 pages behind but I was skimming through a few days worth*

[Polychrome]

Originally Posted by rjade829
I have a question. Let's say Ginny actually still likes Harry and she's just masking her feelings. Why would she lie to Hermione about her feelings then?

Thing is, I'm not so sure she did. We're looking at 3rd party info here. Ginny could easily have just said "He just doesn't like me. I've given up on him." Hermione may or may not have made her own assertions as to what that meant.

On the other hand, Ginny may simply have "gotten over it" and not have any feelings for Harry at the moment. There's a quote in Order of the Phoenix, by Hermione, that's pretty interesting. "Maybe you're taking it in turns to look and keep missing each other." (Order of the Phoenix, American version, page 499) I dunno about you guys, but I find that line hilariously funny. What if Harry got a crush on Ginny while she wasn't interested? That'd stir up things, especially if she really is going out with one of his roommates. LOL

[Jordan]

It's amazing... Just a day ago this thread was on page 50 something!
Hot subject!

[IceKat55]

Originally Posted by rjade829
I have a question. Let's say Ginny actually still likes Harry and she's just masking her feelings. Why would she lie to Hermione about her feelings then? It's disadvantageous to her. Since Hermione's so close to Harry, it would be a good thing for Ginny to have Hermione in the middle. But from what Hermione tells Harry in OOTP, it seems that Ginny has told Hermione that she's moving on, and Hermione tells this to Harry. If Hermione knew that Ginny still liked Harry, she shouldn't have told him this. Unless Ginny's masking her feelings around Hermione too, which doesn't make sense because like I said, Hermione could help her out. So do you think that Ginny told Hermione the truth about her feelings, and if not, why not?
IMO, Ginny is over her crush on Harry, yes. Which is why she told Hermione, or gave Hermione the impression, that she's 'given up' on him. She is now able to speak to Harry, she's clearly comfortable in his presence, and is growing up nicely. Since she's gotten over the schoolgirl crush, she can now start a real relationship/friendship with Harry, and they can get to know each other.

And I believe a romance will spring from there. We already know that she finds Harry physically attractive, and Harry's descriptives of her are quite flattering and in a positive light, so we can assume that Ginny's appearance is not unpleasing to Harry's eye. Now they just need to get to know one another on a personal level. :)

On the other hand, Ginny may simply have "gotten over it" and not have any feelings for Harry at the moment. There's a quote in Order of the Phoenix, by Hermione, that's pretty interesting. "Maybe you're taking it in turns to look and keep missing each other." (Order of the Phoenix, American version, page 499) I dunno about you guys, but I find that line hilariously funny. What if Harry got a crush on Ginny while she wasn't interested? That'd stir up things, especially if she really is going out with one of his roommates. LOL
I would LOVE to see this - - let Harry chase after her for a bit. Turnabout! :D

[Krumpet]

It’s a version of the name Guinevere and her name is in keeping with at least three others of her family – Arthur (King Arthur) and Percy (Percival) and Ron (the name of the King Arthur’s lance, originally called Rhongomynad in Welsh mythology)

Sienna

:evil: Okay I actually do have a theory about the orgin her name. But I wanted to hear a couple before I posted mine. I don't know if you've ever heard of, or read the poem "Orlando Furioso", but I think she was named after the princess of Scotland in that poem.

One is that the princess's name is Ginevra (a couple of translations they do translate it in to Guinevre, but I think it is most commonly kept Ginevra). The coat of arms for her house is a Great Lion holding a Silver Sword, standing under two Unicorns. I don't know the significance of her name (if any) on shipping. But it does make me hopeful for Ginny's character, because Ginevra got to live happily ever after with the man she loved, even though her brother died.

[FlyingPhoenix]

But hasn't Phoenix also said that sometimes she has trouble with english? Phoniex I remember you on the DT and sometimes when we debated you would say that sometimes you had trouble with your english. I'm not saying it's not true if you said it checks out but I want more than one person to validate this quote. I'm having a hard time accepting that JK is THAT catty. :sad:

I said that If I could argue with you this all in my mothertongue I could explain things way better though I doubt people would understand me any better. You know I do understand English, says if you talk nonsene I get that, I can even read philosophic works in English and understand it all however I might have problems to tell you what my opinion on this so you get what I'm writing. My grammar isn't that well though I'm improveing but its still miles away from my German skills. Just think about if people think I got good arguments in English, just immagine how they appeared in my mothertongue.


This quote has been around since 2000?:wow: And nobody has found it before this? Wow.

Well this Interview was published and if you like to know I'll ask this newspaper if they sent me this one. I just got an answer on this and it says:

Dieses Interview hat es gegeben am 8. Juli 2000.

Means: This Interview happened on July 8th 2000.

Seriously I would be carefully with interviews because it could be that this other Interviews from Swiss or that one from Germany "Stern" really exist only our english speaking shipper just didn't care. You know that isn't very suprising to me, it isn't just a rumour what claims english speaking are bit arrogant.

To translate English into German isn't that difficult because frankly English isn't a difficult language. Its quite easy to understand. However its way more difficult to translate German into English, why? Because one need to re-think suddenly something difficult into something easy. You don't need even to try that this Reporter quoted her wrong because I do know Die Frankfurter Rundschau and this is one of highest quality newspaper Germany does have.

if anyone is doubting FP on this, my friend is a professional translator and said that that quote was a good translation...
CD
just for some back up FP, I'm not always arguemenative

Thank you, CD ;)

[Deevo]

IMO, Ginny is over her crush on Harry, yes. Which is why she told Hermione, or gave Hermione the impression, that she's 'given up' on him. She is now able to speak to Harry, she's clearly comfortable in his presence, and is growing up nicely. Since she's gotten over the schoolgirl crush, she can now start a real relationship/friendship with Harry, and they can get to know each other.
That's how I see it though I think her "crush" was less with Harry and more with "The boy who lived". What we're now seeing is her having put that aside and is now relating to Harry as Harry. Like I said before I think on that level she's well able for him and a good match.
And I believe a romance will spring from there. We already know that she finds Harry physically attractive, and Harry's descriptives of her are quite flattering and in a positive light, so we can assume that Ginny's appearance is not unpleasing to Harry's eye. Now they just need to get to know one another on a personal level. :)

I would LOVE to see this - - let Harry chase after her for a bit. Turnabout! :D
It'd be good to see but not dominating the main story though.

[yorkshirelass]

You know that isn't very suprising to me, it isn't just a rumour what claims english speaking are bit arrogant.

Every nation thinks a different nation is arrogant. Is it really relevant to shipping?

To translate English into German isn't that difficult because frankly English isn't a difficult language.
Actually, the difficulty of the original language is more or less irrelevant. Mistakes happen. Even the best translators make them. And when reading in a foreign language, there are always some tiny nuances which you don't quite understand or which don't quite have the same meaning to you as to a native speaker.
I was schooled entirely in French, and it used to happen to me all the time.

This is why a text which has been translated from English (I assume JKR gave the interview in English and was then translated or interpreted into German) and then back into English may not be entirely accurate. I'm not saying the text is wrong. But I would personally always be wary of anything translated, and would rather read the originals where possible.

What we're now seeing is her having put that aside and is now relating to Harry as Harry.

And besides this, Harry is starting to get to know her as more than just "Ron's little sister". I agree, Ginny would be an excellent match for Harry. She knows how to stand up to him.

~ Yorkshirelass ~

[Polychrome]

But it does make me hopeful for Ginny's character, because Ginevra got to live happily ever after with the man she loved, even though her brother died.

Ugh, no. The Ron Death Theories will start up again. :scared:

[Nicole]

Looks like there will be no romance between Luna and Neville. JKR posted in the Quibbler on the website today.....

[Corbin Dallas]

Looks like there will be no romance between Luna and Neville. JKR posted in the Quibbler on the website today.....
Well it's good that another ship has been debunked...
CD
liked the "wilder flights of facny alarming" though :rotfl:
PS:
New Poll on JK's site and option #3 is important to all shippers, get out and vote, it was at 22% and #2 was at 61%, we can't have that now can we?
If anyone has checked for the poll at this moment it disappeared, wonder if word already reached them that we caught the trap question...
CD

[JordanL]

It's amazing... Just a day ago this thread was on page 50 something!
Hot subject!

No kidding. You don't keep on top of it and people start beign attacked by their clones....

....

I swear I didn't know there was an active person with the name.

[xray]

If Hermione is to be the love of Harry's life, why is her family so unimportant?BRILLIANT!

xray

[Fury]

Originally Posted by mrs_bombadil
If Hermione is to be the love of Harry's life, why is her family so unimportant?


I agree... we don't know much about her family... and we know all about the Weasleys...

Same thing goes for the Lovegoods... Why don't we know Luna's family... she would have told us more. I don't think she told us all that much.

[Claudia]

I just wanted to clarify my intentions, and then repost this question for those who may not have been around last night. While Team Heron agrees that Ron and Hermione are going to end up together, I think that we would not all agree on the details of the R/Hr subplot. I'd like to get a feel for what most Herons can agree on. So I'm going to post one question per day, and would love it if as many Herons as possible post their opinions on it. This'll probably go on for a week or so, and then I'll try to summarize for you all the majority positions on the various questions.

Here's today's question (probably the easiest one on the list!):
As of the end of OotP, do you think that Ron understands his feelings for Hermione? If you answer "yes," when do you think he figured it out?

[Fury]

I just wanted to clarify my intentions, and then repost this question for those who may not have been around last night. While Team Heron agrees that Ron and Hermione are going to end up together, I think that we would not all agree on the details of the R/Hr subplot. I'd like to get a feel for what most Herons can agree on. So I'm going to post one question per day, and would love it if as many Herons as possible post their opinions on it. This'll probably go on for a week or so, and then I'll try to summarize for you all the majority positions on the various questions.

Here's today's question (probably the easiest one on the list!):
As of the end of OotP, do you think that Ron understands his feelings for Hermione? If you answer "yes," when do you think he figured it out?

Yes. Basically I think the kiss on the cheek has more to do with this relationship then we think. He blushed, and probably realized that his feelings for Hermione has grown stronger. Plus, like many say, that bottle of perfume isn't something you give to a person who you want to just be friends with. Hermione said it was unsual... but I do think she realizes his feelings toward her... or sort of does.

[xray]

X-Ray made it up, I don't remember the exact reason, but you can ask him.He didn't. You give him way too much credit.

HMS SIGN was orginally written like this HMS S.I.G.N . G and N should be obvious however I'm not sure what S and I stand for He didn't. You give him way too much credit.

HMS SIGN was orginally written like this HMS S.I.G.N . G and N should be obvious however I'm not sure what S and I stand for :whistle:
Credit? I don't think she's giving me any credit :p

Melcb98, I don't know what it means :( Mad Eyed Mike asked me to start the ship (already named) along with a list of 3 or 4 names. I resisted because I just wanted to limit the lists to the trio but eventually relented and decided to restrict the ship lists to the sextet. There are just too many ships out there to keep track of; I've got to draw the line somewhere :p

xray

p.s. I only ship I named was Gibbous Moon and that was because it was unnamed for a while.

[Claudia]

Hmmm... I have another question. We all have our own opinions about what the end result may be, but what do you think is the msot likely scenario at the moment for your favorite couple? During the summer? Christmas? Seventh year?I still believe that all subplots contribute to the main plot (Harry defeating Voldemort) in some way, but I don't know how to use that belief to predict the R/Hr timeline. JKR's an inventive woman--she can come up with plot points that depend on Ron and Hermione dating just as easily as she can create plot points that depend on UST. But I think our signal will be Viktor Krum's reappearance--until he shows up, I don't think there will be any large-scale progress on the R/Hr front.

Incidentally, to address a pages-old discussion, I think the reason that JKR can come out and imply that H/Hr is unlikely but at the same time cannot directly say that R/Hr is definite is because Krum is coming back. To tell us right now that R/Hr is going to happen will destroy the suspense from the Krum subplot.

Ah Snape. How ever could HE be an afterthought? *hugs Snape* bother bother bother!Way off-topic: I normally use the 'Text Only' option for these pages anyway, but while Barbara Kennedy was still using her 'sexy Snape' avatar, 'Text Only' was a necessity--there was a real danger of my choking to death laughing whenever I saw that. :)

[Moonstruck]

[guesses this is shipping]Well, this helps Hermione's maturity a lot

Section: F.A.Q.
When Hermione arrived at Hogwarts, was she nearly eleven or nearly twelve? [also asked by vast numbers of people]
She was nearly twelve; you must be at least eleven to attend Hogwarts.

[Corbin Dallas]

[guesses this is shipping]Well, this helps Hermione's maturity a lot

Section: F.A.Q.
When Hermione arrived at Hogwarts, was she nearly eleven or nearly twelve? [also asked by vast numbers of people]
She was nearly twelve; you must be at least eleven to attend Hogwarts.
Yeah explains her big sister thing with Harry ;)
CD

[Krumpet]

p.s. I only ship I named was Gibbous Moon and that was because it was unnamed for a while.


And now that ship has sunk in the harbor before it had a chance to sail. :( I admit I really liked the idea of the Gibbous Moon, but I'm going to take Jo at her word and let it sink in peace.

I still don't see Ginny/ Neville or Hermione/ Neville though. But who knows...

[Moonstruck]

Yeah explains her big sister thing with Harry ;)
CD

You mean, Ron, right? ;)

[Corbin Dallas]

You mean, Ron, right? ;)
No Harry
CD

[Fury]

Originally Posted by JordanL
Hmmm... I have another question. We all have our own opinions about what the end result may be, but what do you think is the msot likely scenario at the moment for your favorite couple? During the summer? Christmas? Seventh year?

With Ron/Hermione... I always saw it during the summer... maybe during notes... but now I think it might hapeen during sixth or seventh year in the school. Like... Harry walks in to the Common Room (since it is his POV) and he sees them in a certain postion... maybe close together... closer then usual... and they end up telling him they are together...

With Harry/Ginny... I would say during the sixth or seventh school year.

[Moonstruck]

No Harry
CD

Do Harry and Hermione act like little brother/big sister? (If they do, my own sibling relationship with my little brother is in need to be questioned :p ).

[Krumpet]

Ugh, no. The Ron Death Theories will start up again. :scared:


No I don't think Ron will die. But there are a lot of Weasley brothers, and it stands to reason that Ginny may lose at least one of her brothers before this story ends. :)

[Corbin Dallas]

Do Harry and Hermione act like little brother/big sister? (If they do, my own sibling relationship with my little brother is in need to be questioned :p ).
yeah they do, they act alot like my own big sister treats me
CD

[Moonstruck]

yeah they do, they act alot like my own big sister treats me
CD

Well, I don't treat my brother that way.

[Fury]

Do Harry and Hermione act like little brother/big sister? (If they do, my own sibling relationship with my little brother is in need to be questioned :p ).

I always saw their relationship as nearly sibling love... they do act like brother and sister. I have read many books.. heck, I have a little brother... I know how sibling relationships are. Why did so many people think these two were related to begin with?

ETA: Sorry, repeated myself.. hate when I do that. Changed it though.

[Corbin Dallas]

Well, I don't treat my brother that way.
still would explain why Jo said they are very platonic friends...
CD

[Moonstruck]

I always saw their relationship as nearly sibling love... they do act like brother and sister. I have read many books.. heck, I have a little brother... I know how sibling relationships are.

As I just said, my relationship with my little brother is nothing like Harry and Hermione's relationship. Therefore, it stands to reason that not all sibling relationships are the same and we (both of us) could be misinterpeting their relationship.

Why did so many people think these two were related to begin with?

Because the Heron shippers want Harry out of the way so Hermone can get with Ron. :rotfl:

Oh, and (more seriously) people watch too much SW.

[Corbin Dallas]

As I just said, my relationship with my little brother is nothing like Harry and Hermione's relationship. Therefore, it stands to reason that not all sibling relationships are the same and we (both of us) could be misinterpeting their relationship.



Because the Heron shippers want Harry out of the way so Hermone can get with Ron. :rotfl:

Oh, and (more seriously) people watch too much SW.
Ahh the portkey arguement, because they want Harry out of the way, please some originality on occasion would be nice, also a sibling type affection would explain why Harry never acts or expresses interest in Hermione romantically...
CD
PS
I cought the joke and admit mine was bad sorry ;)

[Fury]

As I just said, my relationship with my little brother is nothing like Harry and Hermione's relationship. Therefore, it stands to reason that not all sibling relationships are the same and we (both of us) could be misinterpeting their relationship.



Because the Heron shippers want Harry out of the way so Hermone can get with Ron. :rotfl:

Oh, and (more seriously) people watch too much SW.

The reason this is bringing up the Star Wars Theory... is because in Star Wars (here we go again... Star Wars discussion!) Everyone thought Luke and Leia would end up together and we found out they were siblings... And Leia ended up with Han

Well, I don't think it will go that far in Harry Potter... but I think Harry sees Hermione more as a sister then anything. He never had a real family. He doesn't see himself with Hermione... he and Hermione both said they were "Just friends". Even though that was in GOF, I do believe that will stick.

[Moonstruck]

Ahh the portkey arguement, because they want Harry out of the way, please some originality on occasion would be nice, also a sibling type affection would explain why Harry never acts or expresses interest in Hermione romantically...
CD
PS
I cought the joke and admit was bad sorry ;)

Good. I don't have to whack into your head that this :rotfl: equals joke, then.

The SW one was the serious reason, through. :)

[Corbin Dallas]

Good. I don't have to whack into your head that this :rotfl: equals joke, then.

The SW one was the serious reason, through. :)
Well Jo says we've been watching too much SW with Harry being related Voldy and I think using SW here is weak, the canon stands on its own in that regard ;)
CD
PS
I edited to add that "admit mine was bad"

[Fury]

Like I said... Harry sees Hermione more as a sister then anything... it would be too weird for him to be with her. Besides, I do think he knows Ron and Hermione like each other... if I was him, I wouldn't want to intrude either (other then to get them to realize that they do like each other and just get done with it :p )

[Claudia]

[guesses this is shipping]Well, this helps Hermione's maturity a lot

Section: F.A.Q.
When Hermione arrived at Hogwarts, was she nearly eleven or nearly twelve? [also asked by vast numbers of people]
She was nearly twelve; you must be at least eleven to attend Hogwarts.New stuff! There is just oodles of new stuff there!

Age doesn't help anyone much--Hermione can play big sister to Harry (~10 months), Ron (~5 months), and Neville (~10 months). This does make the Krum relationship slightly less creepy, though (Hermione was 15 and Krum either 17 or 18).

And I'm torn between the FAQ poll questions--this bears thinking about. All I know is that I won't choose the Ron question. :p

[Corbin Dallas]

New stuff! There is just oodles of new stuff there!

Age doesn't help anyone much--Hermione can play big sister to Harry (~10 months), Ron (~5 months), and Neville (~10 months). This does make the Krum relationship slightly less creepy, though (Hermione was 15 and Krum either 17 or 18).

And I'm torn between the FAQ poll questions--this bears thinking about. All I know is that I won't choose the Ron question. :p
You realize of course Hermione will be of age in HBP, wonder how long it will take her to get her apparating license?
CD
PS
oh and Moonlight shippers, this just reinforces my Belief that it will be Molly who comforts Harry about Sirius' death...
http://www.jkrowling.com/en/
Gidoen and Fabian Prwett were Molly Weasley's brothers
Yes, they were, but their history is not particularly significant in terms of the overall plot, except in so far as their deaths obviously explain and excuse some of Mrs. Weasley's fears and her arguably over-protective stance with regard to Harry.

[Fury]

You realize of course Hermione will be of age in HBP, wonder how long it will take her to get her apparating license?
CD

Us finding out that Hermione is older then Harry and Ron does spark a lot of questions... maybe since she is probably one of the oldest sixth years, she will again get more options... like her with the Time Turner... she will get the option to go to Apparation class in HBP.

But again... we are going off topic a bit.. aren't we?

[LunaGoldstein]

well I shouldnt be surprised that she sunk Neville/Luna, as it was one I supported (not particularly with a passion though) and so far all the other theories I've supported (first that Mark Evans would be the HPB, then I thought Tom Riddle... both shot down) didnt go anywhere. Oh well. If Neville would find "her more wilder flights of fancy alarming" (great phrase!) then I definetly cant see Ron or Harry hooking up with her, Luna will probably end up with a sympathetic minor character of some sort. Unfortunately most guys in the books seem too narrow minded for her. Alas, I have the same problem in the real world :rolleyes:

[Laufa]

I just think Hermione's age is very interesting - I doubt it has alot to do with shipping, but then there are only 3 years between her and Krum..that's not too much, is it?

Love,
Eyrún

[Fury]

I just think Hermione's age is very interesting - I doubt it has alot to do with shipping, but then there are only 3 years between her and Krum..that's not too much, is it?

Love,
Eyrún

No it is not too much... but some Herons believe that she was just doing that to get Ron jealous... and it was working! :p :rotfl:

She's always said Krum is more of a pen-pal... which is all I see. I really think she is trying to get Ron jealous... it does work. He did like Krum at first cause Krum was a good quidditch player. Ron still asks Hermione about her communicating with Krum and how he hates it... If Hermione does have this plan.. it is working!

[KatieJoy]

I don't think this whole thing was posted yet.

JUST IN FROM JK's SITE:
Neville and Luna are just friends.

"The Luna/Neville shippers are much less vehement and scary than the Harry/Hermion, Ron/Hermione tribes, so I hope I won't recieve too much hate mail for quashing this rumour. I see Neville and Luna as very different kinds of people and whil they share a certain isolation within Hogwarts, I don't think that's enough to foster true love- friendship, perhaps, although I think that Neville would always find Luna's wilder flights of fancy alarming."

From the Rumours section

[Fury]

JUST IN FROM JK's SITE:
Neville and Luna are just friends.

"The Luna/Neville shippers are much less vehement and scary than the Harry/Hermion, Ron/Hermione tribes, so I hope I won't recieve too much hate mail for quashing this rumour. I see Neville and Luna as very different kinds of people and whil they share a certain isolation within Hogwarts, I don't think that's enough to foster true love- friendship, perhaps, although I think that Neville would always find Luna's wilder flights of fancy alarming."

From the Rumours section

:clap: :clap:

I did see them as just friends... this opens up Harry/Luna or.. acck Ron/Luna... or even more acck!!! Hermione/Neville...

[Moonstruck]

Like I said... Harry sees Hermione more as a sister then anything... it would be too weird for him to be with her. Besides, I do think he knows Ron and Hermione like each other... if I was him, I wouldn't want to intrude either (other then to get them to realize that they do like each other and just get done with it :p )

But that is your opinion that Harry sees Hermione as a sister. Can you point out where in the book Harry thinks that?

[KatieJoy]

:clap: :clap:

I did see them as just friends... this opens up Harry/Luna or.. acck Ron/Luna... or even more acck!!! Hermione/Neville...

Ewww. The only combination I could possibly see (maybe if I was high), is Ron/Luna.

[Fury]

But that is your opinion that Harry sees Hermione as a sister. Can you point out where in the book Harry thinks that?

You are right... it is in my opinion...

No, Canon-wise, I do not think it is in the book... but to some people... to those who don't see Hermione and Harry ending up together... see those two as close as they can be as friends... and that is why people always thought they were brother and sister.

Ewww. The only combination I could possibly see (maybe if I was high), is Ron/Luna.

Yeah, Harry/Luna to me... is a maybe... but I see him with Ginny... Luna is a second option to me. Ron/Luna... um... in my mind I see Hermione with Ron so... you can basically see what I think of Ron/Luna.

[Laufa]

Ewww. The only combination I could possibly see (maybe if I was high), is Ron/Luna.

But Ron has shown no interest in Luna at all (he think's she's 'Looney'), and her apparent 'crush' (though I don't belive in it) wasn't showing in the latter half of OotP.

Love,
Eyrún

[Fury]

But Ron has shown no interest in Luna at all (he think's she's 'Looney'), and her apparent 'crush' (though I don't belive in it) wasn't showing in the latter half of OotP.

Love,
Eyrún

Are you talking about Luna having a crush on Harry.. cause I do see them together, like I said, if Harry and Ginny don't get together...

No I never saw anything that could conclude Ron and Luna being together... like you said... Ron has shown no interest in Luna at all. I do believe Ron is aiming his interest to Hermione. :D

[Laufa]

Are you talking about Luna having a crush on Harry.. cause I do see them together, like I said, if Harry and Ginny don't get together...

No, about Luna crushing on Ron :) I don't see that - and I don't think she fancies Harry is it is. But I do think they deep bond! H/L is my dream ship..! ;)

Love,
Eyrún

[Corbin Dallas]

Originally Posted by mrs_bombadil
If Hermione is to be the love of Harry's life, why is her family so unimportant?
BRILLIANT!

xray
That is a good question, we know so much about the Weasleys and learned even more today. Jo also said that it was too late to introduce the little sister and that the Grangers aren't that important, I think this adds to my own doubt to Harry and Hermione "ship".
CD

[Fury]

No, about Luna crushing on Ron :) I don't see that - and I don't think she fancies Harry is it is. But I do think they deep bond! H/L is my dream ship..! ;)

Love,
Eyrún

Although I am a huge supporter of Harry/Ginny... I do see the connections between Harry and Luna...

I mean, why else would Jo bring Luna in this late, but to give Harry a girlfriend? Or bring her in and her ending up with Harry?

[mrs_bombadil]

Although I am a huge supporter of Harry/Ginny... I do see the connections between Harry and Luna...

I mean, why else would Jo bring Luna in this late, but to give Harry a girlfriend? Or bring her in and her ending up with Harry?

because Luna is a good foil for Hermione

because Luna is serving as a kind of spiritual guide

because Luna is somebody else with some experience with death

I see lots of reasons...