Born-Again Christians

[apirateslife4me]

Hi everyone! My name is Maggie, I'm 14 years old (15 on the 26th), and most importantly, a born-again Christian. I don't really have a denomination, I'm just a Christian, and I attend a non-denominational church called Calvary Chapel (www.calvarychapel.com) which is just a church that worships God and studies His Word. Anyway, I'm new here (and having trouble getting around) but as I was looking around the Spirit Division, I found that a lot of the discussions were way over my head, especially because I'm still really growing in my faith. So I was hoping that maybe some people would like to start a discussion with me about pretty much anything. It doesn't have to be a deep situation, even just sharing Bible verses! I've met a few great friends through a thread like this (on MNI) so if you're interested, please just let me know!

P.S. You don't have to be a born-again Christian to join in this discussion! I think it'd be cool to get people from all types of religion involved, so please join if you're interested!

[Island Jack]

Maggie, welcome to the forum. I'm not Born-Again (though I have several relatives and friends who are), but I would like to seriously congratulate you on the start of your new thread, espeically the way you so eloquently invited those who don't have to be a born-again Christian to join in this discussion!
Forgive me if I am being too bold, but I would like to ask you a question whcih I am unfortunately unable to ask my Born-Again friends and relatives. Being Born-Again, do you face or have you been subjected to any negativity concerning being a Harry Potter fan (which I suspect you are, as you're here on this forum)?

Good luck in your endeavors, and I feel that you will find some very helpful and courteous folk here.

[busy91]

Hi Maggie, welcome to the forums.

I am not Born-Again, and although I was baptized Catholic, I no longer follow that path. My 1st husband is a Born-Again Christian. He and his wife are the only one's I know personally who are.

I shy away from Born-Again Chrisitans because they tend to find my spiritual path against their beliefs which doesn't so much upset me as makes me sad. I'm a Pagan and I get a lot of flack for that.

It makes me sad because I am able to accept everyone's spiritual path regardless of what it is. I think everyone should be happy in what they chose to believe, but it doesn't go both ways...usually.

[HP_ROCKS]

Hi Maggie... Welcome to the Boards... and nice thread...


I am not Born-Again, but rather like the poster above, (busy91), am Pagan also.


I used to know people when I was growing up who were Born Again Christians.. but I havent spoken to them in years.


Anywhoo... Once again Welcome to the Boards :)

[Sirius Seeker]

Hi Maggie!

:welcome:

I would consider myself a born-again Christian. I grew up Methodist and have always considered myself a Christian in name, but I feel that I finally "got it" when I was in college. Before, I would say that I understood the idea of Christianity. Today, I would say that I believe in it to the point of basing my life upon it. I have been a PCA Presbyterian for about 4 years now, and my husband is currently in seminary.

I hope that you will enjoy being a part of these forums. The Spirit Division and the DoIMC have some really great discussions going all the time. I have found great benefit in getting to listen to and learn from people of so many different religious and non-religious belief systems. Being here is not so much about "my way or no way" but having an opportunity to share what you believe and respectfully giving other people the opportunity to do the same. For me it has already been a great learning experience. I hope it's the same for you.

Being Born-Again, do you face or have you been subjected to any negativity concerning being a Harry Potter fan
I haven't had any. In fact, most of my Christian friends read HP. I don't really understand the controversary. I am currently reading The Chronicles of Narnia by CS Lewis. It's full of witchcraft and wizardry, but CS Lewis is one of the great authors of Christian literature. I have also read (and love) The Lord of the Rings, also full of witchcraft and wizardry, also written by (but I'm not certain) a Christian. I think those who oppose the HP books have good intentions but are perhaps misguided or ill-informed. Personally, the only problem I have with the HP series is having to wait for Book 6....

[Sherlock Holmes]

Welcome to the Spirit Division, Maggie! This forum was originally called Hogwarts Chapel, and the idea was for it to be a place where religious-minded folks could come and talk about things, in a respectful and non-debating manner (unlike, say, some of the discussions in the DoIMC ;)).

Anyway, it's always good to meet fellow Christians. What sort of things would you like to talk about?

[busy91]

I haven't had any. In fact, most of my Christian friends read HP. I don't really understand the controversary. I am currently reading The Chronicles of Narnia by CS Lewis. It's full of witchcraft and wizardry, but CS Lewis is one of the great authors of Christian literature. I have also read (and love) The Lord of the Rings, also full of witchcraft and wizardry, also written by (but I'm not certain) a Christian. I think those who oppose the HP books have good intentions but are perhaps misguided or ill-informed. Personally, the only problem I have with the HP series is having to wait for Book 6....

It seems to me HP is targeted more than the other books you've mentioned. Why is that? Is it because it is so popular? It is good to hear that only a small number of Christians are ill-informed.

[Sirius Seeker]

Busy91,

I don't know why all the fuss was made about the HP books and not about the others. Perhaps it's because they were already considered classics at the time HP came out? Or perhaps because HP were written for children (although Narnia was written for children, too...) /shrug

I think that the Southern Baptists were the main group leading the charge against HP. (No offense meant to anyone with that statement, they just stand out in my mind as being more vocal about their opposition). Not all Christian denominations (or individual Christians) hold the view that HP is "evil." But when one particular group (or groups) is very vocal in their opposition, and when the majority of those groups happen to be Christian, the generalization then becomes that all Christians oppose HP. Unfortunate that it happens like that, but you learn to roll with the punches and read the books anyway...

On the surface, I can see where people could get a bad impression about HP, but I don't think it's fair to make that decision without reading them. For some people, fantasy/science-fiction/magic genres just don't do anything for them. But that doesn't mean that they aren't good books for others. HP does not promote or glorify evil, it does not teach bad values, and it inspired thousands of children to start reading. No harm there, right?

There can be redeeming qualities in almost anything, even if it is unintentional, even if it's a book about witches and wizards. It is a shame that people miss out on such good opportunities in art and literature (and life for that matter) without fully understanding what they are missing.

[apirateslife4me]

First off, I would like to thank all of you for responding to this thread and for starting a discussion of your own! (This is a topic I think I can handle!)

When I first starting reading HP and getting into the movies, my family was very concerned. We're a very conservative Christian family and they were worried that my interest in this particular series would lead to an interest in more serious things, such as witchcraft. But my (firm) belief is that HP is a fantasy story and nothing more. It depends on the way you interpret that story as to how you will react to it. I, for instance, love it because it's a fabulous storyline, is wonderfully written, and as great morals in it such as honesty, bravery, and friendship. By becoming a fan of the series, it doesn't mean I'm going to become obsessed and/or start practicing witchcraft. It just means I will be a FAN and there's nothing wrong with that.
Further more, I completely agree with Sirius Seeker. Why is it that books such as the Chronicles of Narnia or the Lord of the Rings are hailed by the Christians while HP is considered evil and demonic? I personally think it's because it was not written by a Christian author (J.R.R. Tolkien was, in fact, a Christian, too) or at least not a publicly announced Christian, as I have no place to judge what J.K. Rowling believes in. I think another "flaw" is that it doesn't have any obvious parallelism (is that a word?) to Christianity.
Sorry that was so long but I have a lot to say concerning this topic!

P.S. I'm sorry that some of you have been persecuted from your faith. I am one who will never do that to someone, regardless my feelings towards their religion. Besides, I don't know anything about Paganism (did I spell it right? lol) and while I have no intensions of every converting, I would like to learn more! Thanks again for joining!

[dawningoftime]

I am a born again Christian and I I love the books (and so does my sister). I have to admit that I,too, am rather flabbergasted at people who say Harry Potter is bad but Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia are good. I too have a lot to say about this. Although I will say this a large number of Christians who protest against the Harry Potter books have never read the books. Generally it's my policy to reserve judgement until I have read the books.

[iluvhhr]

I'm Pagan, but I go to a Christian school- Roman Catholic, to be more specific. No offense to Born-Again Christains, but I always hear bad things about them. Are they really so different from other Christains?

[danfan4ever]

Hi, fellow Christian and WELCOME!

[tgraveline]

well this is a really cool thread. I am what you call a born again christian. Now whats interesting is that people first try to make a difference between them and socalled non born again. Well honestly, they are one and the same, you are born again the moment you accept jesus as your lord and savior. At least that is how i see it.

So being that, one person mentioned asked are they really worse than non born again, well, the answer to that is really, no. Cause there truly is no such thing. So i guess we are just worse period and better period. Now some people will tell me that there is a difference between being catholic and protestant and all of the micro groups that make up both. Well we hold to the same basic thing. Which is what should truly bring them all together. I think what you are referring to though to where are they really any different right.

iluvhhr- So i hope i am kind of explaining this to you. Now i will say this, most churches and denominations have gotten way off track. If you know the story of jesus is that he was persecuted by the pharisees, which "christians" today see as the bad guys in a way, but in reality, we really are like them ourselves. we worry too much about rules and got focues on the rules that we make ourselves, not god. For he said the greatest commandment when asked by one was love your god with all your heart and the second he said was love your neighbor, and that both of those were what all the other commandments hung upon. You see christians today have lost their focus, and well we schrewed up. So harry potter is another example i think.

well and one thing was that i remember my church saying stuff about harry potter also, and my parents ask me about it, as they are pastors themselves and i am well a missionary and will be a counseling pastor in the future also, lol. The problem is that reliable christians were told one thing or two, and so they told them on and on, and we know how things get changed a bit over tellings. Well i think the first people were the very religous people who are rule savvy. so in essence they made a mistake and it got blown way out of proportion. They should realize, people are reading again, for once a visual generation is learning to read. It blows my mind, and for that i love harry potter in itself then. Then i read it myself and loved it too. LIke apirateslifeforme said, there is not parallel that are in LOTR and CON. Who are both known christian authors, but they set out writing them that way, especially lewis. LOTR is a bit more interesting i think. I think its more sublte that he put it in and i don't think he meant it to be some totally christian thing, more of a thing to enjoy written by a christian.

well i've talked for too long now and i'm sure someone will disagree with me, but i love them anyways, lol.

tg

[busy91]

Doesn't the term 'Born Again' mean that you have come back to Jesus? Meaning you were baptized as a child (or older) then you fell out with God/Jesus and then you decided that you want to know him again. Is that not what it is?

[tgraveline]

born again is the first time you come to god. other times they call it rededication

tg

[KatieJoy]

Hey everyone! I'm a 'born-again' Christian, but have never really appreciated that term. To me, it means that I have admitted to God that I'm a sinner and believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose again, which allows me to be forgiven because he died for my sins, and have asked for that forgivness. :)

"Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once."

[Rapunzel]

I honestly do not mean to give offense to anyone - and if anyone is offended by my question, I apologize in advance. I'm seriously curious about something. I know someone who dated a girl who herself didn't seem to be religious at all, but whose parents are born again christians. The daughter's previous boyfriend was also a born again christian, but was very physically abusive to her. Her parents hated the second boyfriend, who treated her like gold, because he was non-religious. They wanted her to dump him and go back to the abuser, because they approved of his (boyfriend 1) religious beliefs. (The girl and boyfriend 2 are no longer together. I don't know who she's with now, but I hope it's not boyfriend 1.) Are these parents representative of born again christians in general?

[Pegasus]

Well, I don't know the answer to Rapunzel's question, so someone else, take it away...
About Harry Potter: The people I know who have a problem with Rowling but not with Lewis have never read Harry Potter. They read a few negative articles, didn't like the idea of kids going to a school to use witchcraft, and decided it was evil. Those who have actually read it see that's it's almost a good vs. evil allegory, much like C. S. Lewis--but I, personally, enjoy Harry Potter much more.

[KatieJoy]

Her parents hated the second boyfriend, who treated her like gold, because he was non-religious.

All I can tell you is that some people are silly, to put it nicely. Personally, I would never date anyone who didn't have the same beliefs as me though.

Are these parents representative of born again christians in general?

Unfortunatley that's why a lot of people have a bad view of Christians. This is the beginning of a song by a Christian group called DC Talk which I think states what I think pretty clearly.

[the greatest single cause of atheism in the world today
Is christians who acknowledge jesus with their lips
Then walk out the door and deny him by their lifestyle.
That is what an unbelieving world simply finds unbelievable.]

[Rapunzel]

Personally, I would never date anyone who didn't have the same beliefs as me though.

As far as I could tell, the few times I met her, and from talking to boyfriend 2, who I know well, she didn't have any strong religious beliefs herself. Her parents were the ones putting their religious beliefs above the physical and emotional well being of their daughter. Maybe the fact that I don't have kids makes this harder for me to understand. I have strong religious beliefs, but I can't see me ever letting those beliefs make me try to put my child in a relationship where she would be beat up all the time. :no:

[Pegasus]

Personally, I would never date anyone who didn't have the same beliefs as me though.
Actually, I've always felt the same way, which made it very easy to marry someone with my same beliefs. Of course, it's not just having my same beliefs--it's acting like it.
If my husband had turned out to be an abusive man and either didn't have the desire to change or simply couldn't, I definitely wouldn't have stayed in the relationship.

[ultimate sacrifice]

I think that "Born Again" Christian is referring to Jesus's discussion with Nicodemus regarding being born again of water (Baptism as a result of repentence of sins) and the Spirit. (The Holy Spirit then comes to "dwell" in the Christian as a result of the person making the public and private commitment to Christ...professing him as Lord and Savior and asking him to come into "dwell" via the Holy Spirit.) In that case, I am a "Born Again" Christian.

As far as being persecuted for being a HP fan, I have a few Aqaintances who are pretty rigid and do not think it is appropriate for a Christian to read HP, but they have never read HP and have no knowledge of JKRowling. Just judging because it has witchcraft in it. Everyone is right about the comparisons to LOTR and Chronicles of Narnia. I think it will all sort itself out once the 7th book is out. Personally, I just go on about my business and since I am comfortable with my choice and comfortable with my relationship with Christ...I just do my thang!

[Ava]

I'm a practicing Catholic but I once attended a Born-Again fellowship service when a friend invited me and it was fun and the people made me feel super welcome. :)

[EmperorStaleek]

I'm into the Urantia Book, which claims it was authored by celestial beings, and though I suppose I probably wouldn't call myself a Born-Again Christian we do believe in Jesus and a lot of other Christian stuff. I was a Christian when I was younger but before getting into Urantia, I was basically atheist. I would be more than happy to talk about anything at all with anyone.

[Wab]

I've rarely had a happy experience with overt born-agains.

[genesis]

My opinion of conservative, born-again, Christians is not entirely positive. I view them with caution because they tend to be the most evangelical. I believe active prostelyzing, regardless of faith, is wrong. My knowledge and experience of conservative Christianity comes more from Asian Presbyterianism than American based conservative Christianity.

[Kaitie]

I've rarely had a happy experience with overt born-agains.

That quote made me chuckle. :lol: Born-againers can be very zealous.

<---LDS, so I tend to be a receiver of the zealous-ness.

[Scheherezade]

I'm not Born-Again, I was baptised Catholic, disagree with a few things with the Church, but I believe in its Creed. My boyfriend is actually what you might call a born-again (he's Pentecostal), and through him I did get saved (he said the prayer with me). I'm still a Catholic though, and I don't want to switch churches because I am comfortable with the particular one I attend (in a really rural Caribbean community). I think it's great you want to grow in your faith; I'm also in fact trying to grow and be closer to God. A good site to go to is www.christianity.com, although personally a few of the preachers there seem to be a tad too zealous and condemning of people. Sometimes we need to learn to condemn the sin and not the sinner. Anyway, I hope that site helps you and good luck!

Oh yeah the HP book controversy, I had it explained to me by my boyfriend.

Many people in the Christian community take issue with Harry Potter because, (apart from the 'acceptability' of witchcraft that it presents), it supposedly uses too many real and believed to be evil spells, and also names of demons. I tried to explain to him that most of the spells were latin or came from classic literature, as well as the names, but he was adamant. He also has never read the books . */sigh* what can you do?

[Cuthbert]

I don't know why all the fuss was made about the HP books and not about the others. Perhaps it's because they were already considered classics at the time HP came out? Or perhaps because HP were written for children (although Narnia was written for children, too...) /shrug



I think it is because Tolkien was a devote Catholic and Lewis was a Christian (converted from atheism); I believe Lewis was evangelical Anglican (correct me if I'm wrong). These were both Christians who were very open with their faith.

I think that the Christian elements of Lewis's Narnia are fairly obvious (Aslan=Jesus) As to Tolkien's middle earth, he has stated, "'The Lord of the Rings' is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out practically all references to anything like 'religion,' to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and symbolism." (from a letter written in 1953 from J.R.R. Tolkien to Robert Murray, a Jesuit priest, published in The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, 1981)

Rowling's religious beliefs seem to be more ambiguous, and so the concern (unfounded concern in my opinion) that Harry Potter is forcing children around the world into the occult.

[Kaitie]

The scriptures state that one of the signs of the times (preparation for Christ's return) is that people will "call good-evil and evil-good".

Harry Potter is a good series, similar in quality and calibar to many of the "classics" and I have no doubts that it will become a classic in due time.... The books center on good overcoming evil, that people choose their own paths in life--nothing in the book even remotely resembles the occult. I don't understand how people can condemn the books when they haven't even read them, I doubt these people even know what aspects and characteristics define the "occult".

Wealth, pride, adultery, dishonesty, betrayal--these have been twisted and called good and praiseworthy and desirous....I think these are far more important to protect our children from than a book about a wizard boy...

[Scheherezade]

You might actually know that CS Lewis was a christian writer as in he wrote lots of books on Christianity.

The Narnia series is no exception. In fact Narnia is based almost completely on the bible. Aslan is God/Jesus. 'The Magician's Nephew' tells of the creation of Narnia, and it resembles greatly the story of Adam and Eve, including the fall (this is how the witch comes to rule Narnia). 'The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe' mirrors the gospels, in that Aslan returns (the coming of the Christ), and the new order of Narnia is founded (with the four heads, Lucy, Susan, Edmund and Peter, I think representing the writers of the Gospels, not sure about that one). I have no idea what 'The Horse and His Boy' parallels, but I am pretty sure that the Tarshish religion is one that greatly mirrors Islam. I'm a little hazy on the subjects of the following books, but I think the 'Voyage of the Dawn Treader' has some sort of parallel with the exploration of the New World and the subsequent spread of Christianity. I think a lot of myth and fancy take over from this point, though there must be some other historical parallels that I can't remember (its been years since I've read them), but the book 'The Last Battle' so closely resembles the book of Revelation that it is obvious that it is a Christian parallel.

If you look at it closely there is absolutely no grounds for anyone to claim its 'demonic' because it simply mirrors the history of Christianity.