What do you think is the "core" of the Harry Potter story?

[pasalita]

I thought I would post this thread here because it's an idea based on the novel. But, then again, I've always been unsure of how to separate topics from the Great Hall and the Common Room, so if a mod has to move this thread, you'd really be doing me a favor. :D

The question:

I realize that the Harry Potter story is multi-faceted, but what is one "core" idea you feel JK is trying to illustrate?

To me, the Harry Potter story transcends and challenges the idea of "fitting into" or assimilating to any one idea of society. I believe that it is unfeasable to base the story on notions of assimilation because, from the beginning, Harry is a marginalized character. He exists in both the muggle and wizarding worlds, and yet, he is separated from them as well; he is a wizard unwanted by his muggle family, and his fame in the wizarding world overshadows the fact that he knows nothing of his magical heritage.

Harry cannot cease to be "Harry Potter," and he is forever "marked" to be great, to be confronted, to be chased, to be followed. True, that while among his friends and his family, he can simulate (and in the case of the Dursleys, is forced to simulate) an "everyday" lifestyle, these attempts at commonality are consistently interrupted. For instance, in CoS, because of who he is, he is surrounded by scandal and followed around by a "fan." And, throughout the series thus far, he is the target of evil because of who he is.

Therefore, I believe that the basic idea of the story is NOT so much about how Harry will learn to "pass" as a wizard and "fit in," BUT more about taking an active role in forming one's own understanding of one's identity.

It is a story about the struggle for individualism in a world where conformity and status quo often dictate what is considered as "proper" behavior, what are "proper" beliefs, and what are "proper" relationship ties. Harry is, and will forever be, extraordinary in relation to both the muggle and wizarding worlds. Thus, he can not adhere to, nor deny, any one type of social expectations.

In essence, then, one of the ideas that I take from the story is the idea that it is our struggles and conflicts that make us who we are, and that our individuality can never be dictated or prescribed to us. We must take an active role in discerning what makes us unique. And, that by knowing this, we must also accept that these struggles exist within every other individual that we meet. Dig and be dug.

That's my piece. I'll pass the peas.

[Dobby and Winky]

Wow, amazing post. And yes, I think this is the right forum for this.

Harry does live in two worlds, and he doesn't fit in perfectly to either. Think of all the times he, a pure-blood wizard, has been corrected by muggleborn Hermione. But he's doing quite well to adapt to his situations, and he has overcome, I think, the 10 years of knowing nothing about his heritage.

[Da da da da da86]

Core of Harry Potter? Umm, phoenix tail feather... :sorry:

Ok, serious now. I think the theme idea is different for each book. In PS/SS, Rowling teaches us the importance of friendship (working together to find Flamel, get to the stone). CoS taught us the danger of prejudice (aginst Potter for being a parselmouth and muggleborns for being muggleborns). PoA showed us that there are two sides to every story (Sirius, Pettigrew). GoF is tougher. I think the best one is that appearances are deceiving (Moody, Skeeter, Hermione (I dunno, Harry and Ron realize she's not what they thought before, pretty), the trophy, and Harry's fame. This is the first time he gets public grief for it).

Each theme is repeated in the other books but is not as central. Friends in CoS when Hermione is petrified, PoA when Ron and Hermione fight, and GoF when Ron and Harry fight.
Prejudice: against lupin, Hagrid.
Two sides: Snape (SS)
Appearances: Lockhart

I dunno if that's what you meant.....
As for a theme for the whole serious, I think we all know the answer... To denounce all other beliefs and worship Satan :devil:

Kidding, of course. Those guys really irk me. :rasp:

[pasalita]

Dude, Da da - you are too funny!:rotfl:

On the serious tip, there is no right or wrong answer with this question. I just wanted to know what others thought, that's all. So, thanks for sharing!

Satan...that's funny..:grin: ...phoenix feather...you KILL me:rotfl:

[dorcasderr]

There is a lot of truth in all your observations, but the basic core of this series of books is classic good against evil.

[Da da da da da86]

I was going to say something like that, but I feel that most literature is good vs. evil. That's conflict.

[Anne]

I believe this story is merely a coming of age tale. A bildungsroman, if you will. (Heehee, I know that was a shameless flaunt of vocabulary, but I couldn't help myself. :p) And Harry is the perfect character for such a story because he both ordinary and extraordinary at the same time. He offers us views of both worlds. It's the story of how a boy becomes a man, told in a way that we can completely relate to, and yet can still capture our imaginations.

[Tinkie]

well i agree with u anne. it is the coming of age and the maturation of a boy. but apart from that i think it is the eternal conflict, the conflict that has been the basic theme of many a movies and books, the conflict of Good versus Evil. in the end probably good will win and everything will be back to normal....

[Fleur]

I feel that the story is about Harry growing up. That is almost like the "inner core" of the Harry Potter series, but I also feel that the good vs. evil conflict surrounding Harry's coming of age, as an "outer core". ;D Harry growing up in good vs. evil? That wouold (kinda) combine both of my thoughts of the core of the series.

[Manyasha]

:yup: I agree with everything above. The story is about Harry coming of age. He learns a lot about friendship, fame, people, etc. And, of course, good vs. evil conflict.

[Kneazle]

I agree with what's been said. The books follow the growth of an extraordinary young man. But it's all taken to another, magical level. Harry is very powerful, he's very famous, he's very special-- he's destined to do great things. People expect much of him, and as he grows he's showing himself equal to their expectations, and he's surpassing their hopes. Yet he's a normal guy-- he doesn't want their admiration, though he's so worthy of it. They deal with all these basic themes (good vs. evil) and issues (prejudice, friendship, etc.) of life. Just your classic coming of age in an amazing parallel world.

There was this one quote from JKR that is slightly related to this topic. I'll put it here anyway, as I've always loved this aspect of these books:


"The idea that we could have a child who escapes from the confines of the adult world and goes somewhere where he has power, both literally and metaphorically, really appealed to me."


Anyway, they have a lot of escaping from oppressing places and have a real power-to-the-children theme. That's all I have to say for now. . . sorry if I've just repeated everything.

[Cat]

I think the core of this series is a whole great net of morals and notions and tales entwined. It's not a story to give us a lecture on the ideals of being (and thank God, I hate those things) but it's a story where we can squeeze out our own lessons from the Great Sponge of our minds as we go along enjoying ourselves.

But there is one essence of the core that I picked up on and somebody already said it - good versus evil. I'd call it the light versus the dark. That is very old-fashioned story telling and it's been picked up again after so many political/depressive/cuddly/bad romance books. It is the stuff of fairy tales and fantasy. It has the ethics of something Biblical, and I don't know why the book-burning weirdos won't allow themselves to see that.

[Fleur Delacour]

I think it's about his journey to self discovery, but also it is ultimately good vs. evil.

[pasalita]

Hm. A lot of people rally behind the idea that the story is simply and not-so-simply about good vs. evil.

I wonder then: What do you think is unique about the Harry Potter re-telling of good vs. evil? Is the story unique at all?

[Cat]

What's unique about the re-telling of the moral? The story, of course! The story is about the boy named Harry Potter, the 'good vs. evil' factor just comes right with it.
I mean, the fairy tale Hansel and Gretel has that motive but so does Lord of the Rings. I find the two are rather different.

[Emma]

I believe that the books are about a boy trying to finally find himself. But it's difficult because he has to do it on his own. (No helpful family) He has to choose between what is the right and wrong things. He's a good kid. I agree with all of the above replys.I think the uniqueness of these stories is that you get to know not just Harry but everyone around and connected to him. Not just by name but by personality, family,etc..... JK really goes into great depths of her characters.

[Kneazle]

I wonder then: What do you think is unique about the Harry Potter re-telling of good vs. evil? Is the story unique at all?
Of course. The story is so different from anything else. The basic theme is there, but everything else is changed. Characters, plot, history, surroundings-- you name it. Like Cat said, you can have entirely different stories with the same motive.

[Sam]

Originally posted by Da da da da da86
Core of Harry Potter? Umm, phoenix tail feather... :sorry:

Ok, serious now. I think the theme idea is different for each book. In PS/SS, Rowling teaches us the importance of friendship (working together to find Flamel, get to the stone). CoS taught us the danger of prejudice (aginst Potter for being a parselmouth and muggleborns for being muggleborns). PoA showed us that there are two sides to every story (Sirius, Pettigrew). GoF is tougher. I think the best one is that appearances are deceiving (Moody, Skeeter, Hermione (I dunno, Harry and Ron realize she's not what they thought before, pretty), the trophy, and Harry's fame. This is the first time he gets public grief for it).

Each theme is repeated in the other books but is not as central. Friends in CoS when Hermione is petrified, PoA when Ron and Hermione fight, and GoF when Ron and Harry fight.
Prejudice: against lupin, Hagrid.
Two sides: Snape (SS)
Appearances: Lockhart

I dunno if that's what you meant.....
As for a theme for the whole serious, I think we all know the answer... To denounce all other beliefs and worship Satan :devil:

Kidding, of course. Those guys really irk me. :rasp:

I think they also have to do with figuring out what is the "right path" and taking it. For example, when Hermione stops worrying about the rules and begins worrying about other students in CoS.
They make the Polyjuice potion, and have to break about 50 school rules to do it.
Say it with me "The ends justifies the means."

[Anne]

I wonder then: What do you think is unique about the Harry Potter re-telling of good vs. evil? Is the story unique at all?I think that the theme is not unique, but the way the theme is presented is very unique. We don't learn anything new, but we get a fresh, stimulating look at something we may have forgotten.

[LewsTherin]

Courage, Friendship, Honour, and Sacrifice. I think those are all themes that flow through the books and form the core of it.

[pasalita]

All great posts! Now, another question that is somewhat connected to the original idea of this thread:

I've heard the producer of the HP film (I think it was the producer) say that a major reason why Harry Potter and the story appeals to so many people is because Harry represents the "every man." To be politically correct, perhaps he means the "every person," but that's besides the point.

Anyway, back to the point:

Do you think Harry represents the "every man"? How?

And, keeping that in mind:

What moral/value in the HP story do you connect with the most?

[ReLupin]

There are lots of minor themes such as prejudice, sacrifice, bravery, friendship and self-discovery.

However, I believe the central theme is that it is the decisions that we make that determines who we are. Many people are born into bad circumstances, but rise above their circumstances. Some are born into good circumstances but choose the wrong paths.

I think this statement from Dumbledore at the end of GoF is key to the story.

"Remember, if the time should come when you have to make a choice between what is right, and what is easy, remember what happened to a boy who was good, and kind, and brave, because he strayed across the path of Lord Voldemort. Remember Cedric Diggory."

The word "choice" is key.

[Cat]

Do you think Harry represents the "every man"? How?

Well, I'm not sure how that one works out. Every person is different and they start out in different places. But he does have his connections in real life which makes it easier for everyone to connect with him.

What moral/value in the HP story do you connect with the most?

That any person, however lowly they believe themselves to be, can come out from their bad place to see and do the greatest things.

[Tinkie]

really good... when i first thought about it i only saw the conflict of good versus evil, but apparently there are many more themes in the books. what slipped through my head and i wont forgive myself for it is the theme of friendship, the bond that ties people together. the three of them (Ron, Harry, Hermione) get to develop a really strong relationship between them.
and as ReLupin said there is the moral that our decisions make us who we are ...as Dumbledore told Harry

[Benzo]

It is rare that I read a thread andI agree with every post!:)
JKR said somewhere that it was about an average boy becoming a man, with all the difficulties related to it, being accepted, friendship, love, courage and so on.

The value I see more in the books? loyalty, courage.

I think Harry represents the every person because he is an average boy, with some qualities and flaws. Yes, he defeated Voldemort twice or three times depending how you count, but that I think it is there first because a book need a hero but also because we are all unique and we have to surpass ourselves in our lives if we want to be proud of who we are.

[Sinistra]

This is a great thread.

OK here's my two knuts. I believe the main core is about choices, as ReLupin said. But you also can factor in the coming-of-age theme, the good-vs.-evil theme, the conformity-vs.-individuality theme etc. etc.

In short, all these factors make the Harry Potter series a Great Book. Like in the official "Great Books" series. The fact we all can endlessly discuss so many different ideas and themes as presented in the books. AND we can add they are great reads. I did a year of great books in high school, and some were fun and interesting (Merchant of Venice was a fun one), some were incredibly dense but interesting (Kirkegaard was that) and some I just never got into. (I can't remember those). But Huck Finn is on that list, so children's literature isn't exempt from delving into themes which are universal to humankind.

Anyhow, Harry as everyman, of course. I love the way he changes and matures in GoF. He makes some boneheaded decisions early on, and then later finally gets down to it and really learns a lot and comes into his own. That one book is the best showing his "coming of age" so far.

The moral lesson I resonate the most with is making the choice between what is right and what is easy. Let's just say the last 6 years have been a giant cosmic lesson for me in just that and let it rest. I have lived it, and you learn a lot, but you certainly don't always sleep well nor do you have happy endings. Relief is greatly appreciated. But it's never over. The song Bread and Roses by Malvina Reynolds sums it up for me. Maybe I'll post it later.

Anyhow Harry has helped keep me sane and given me lots of laughs beside. Nothing says great literature has to be devoid of humor. And I think the humor is another good lesson. Humor is a wonderful thing, and life is much better for it.

[Benzo]

Sinistra is very bright tonight.

[Sinistra]

Awww, shucks! You guys are too sweet. :o

[pasalita]

I though I might re-post these last two questions because they hadn't been pondered on in as much detail as the thread title and, well, I'm interested to know:

Do you think Harry represents the "every man"? How?

And, keeping that in mind:

What moral/value in the HP story do you connect with the most?

For myself, I think the conflict Harry finds himself in is representative of the every man, but Harry himself is an "ideal" character. Ideally, if I had gone through as much as Harry's been shown to go through, I would be that much more cynical. But, Harry seems to always bounce back after a good night's rest - he's always been able to endure and feel secure, despite the fact that a very powerful Dark Wizard (and his minions) are out to get him. Harry is an extraordinary character, but I'm not sure he really represents the "every man."

And, the moral I take from this story? Even still, that's one I'll have to think about.

[Ezra Pippen]

I had an idea about this, but had a hard time articulating it until I read the post on playing an active role in forming one's identitity. HP is about right and wrong in a world of normal people who make plenty of mistakes. It is about the active role we take in determining "what is right and what is easy." In regards to knowledge, truth, and moralitiy, this holds true throughout the series. Whether someone is good or evil is not always measured by what you think of their personality. Never dig beyond the surface, and you will cause yet more conflict when you need to be working together(both Snape and Sirius need to work on this). Ignoring things, putting clues out of your mind, and truth is that much harder to find, and that can be deadly (Even though Dumbledore did try and fail to anticipate in GoF, he was far closer to the truth than most). What feels satisfying when you are angry can be over the top and wrong (Sirius's prank on Snape). Strive for integrity rather accepting the social expectations passively (Hermione and the house elves-by all definitions they are slaves. Whether or not they want to be slaves is a separate idea from whether or not one should choose to enslave them!!!). Look at facts, not predjudices. And coming of age is a perfect way to represent this theme as one grows more aware(hopefully) of others and the outer world as one grows up.

[pasalita]

Originally posted by Ezra Pippen
Never dig beyond the surface, and you will cause yet more conflict when you need to be working together(both Snape and Sirius need to work on this). Ignoring things, putting clues out of your mind, and truth is that much harder to find, and that can be deadly (Even though Dumbledore did try and fail to anticipate in GoF, he was far closer to the truth than most). What feels satisfying when you are angry can be over the top and wrong (Sirius's prank on Snape). Strive for integrity rather accepting the social expectations passively (Hermione and the house elves-by all definitions they are slaves. Whether or not they want to be slaves is a separate idea from whether or not one should choose to enslave them!!!).

I thought that you articulated your point very well! I especially agree with what I quoted above.

Further, "Ignoring things, putting clues out of your mind, and truth is that much harder to find, and that can be deadly " is also portrayed by Fudge. His stubborness is creating rifts in an allegiance that would otherwise unite in the fight against Voldemort.

In all honesty, Ezra Pippin, I think your post is a breath of fresh air.

[Emilia]

What is the core of the Harry Potter books, and is the "core" what makes them so successful?

Last year around the premier of HPSS the swedish monthly entartainment paper "Nöjesguiden", published a small picture of Dan Radcliff as Harry on their "What's hot list" He was number one and they called it, Harry Potter, The Morrissey of our time. (Refering to Morrissey of the group The Smiths). Anyway, under the picture and title was a little text about what (Nöjesguiden thinks) makes the Harry Potter books great, that said (roughly translated from swedish): "Few have as exactly as this british wizard portraid the feelings of not fitting in that young thinking, feeling people always face. Because that's what it's all about. Finding soulmates when the music they play on the radio doesn't say anything about your life."

I think they summed it up quite well. Harry is an outsider in both worlds, he is special, but not in a way that would make him hard to relate to, he has strengths and weaknesses just like everybody in the world.

What makes the books so wonderful is that Harry stands for what is right for what is good. He battles everyday dilemmas (Who will go with me to the ball) aswell as saving the world from evil, even if he doesn't know that's what he'd doing all of the time. He doesn't look for trouble (well not all the time anyway), trouble seems to find him.

I think that's the core for me, and thats why I love the books.
Or actually that's not only why I love the books, but it's a breif summary of it.

[Sinistra]

Another theme might be staying as normal as possible in abnormal circumstances. As Pasalita said, Harry has a very evil dark Wizard after him. But unless it becomes immediately urgent, he doesn't dwell on it or brood about it. He just gets on with his life as best as possible. Like Mrs. Miniver in the movie.

[matahari toad]

I think the whole thing is about having the courage to face your life and deal with it on your own. To me it seems that a Wizard is somebody who "listens" more closely to the things that happen around him, who sees the unusual in every day life that most people just ignore (Platform9 3/4). In HP magic is related to inner strength, like dealing with your fears (the Boggarts) or not getting lost in fantasy instead of living your dreams (the Mirror of Erised)or caring for yourself (Patronus). I think the thing that's special about Harry and also about Dumbledore is that they never hide from reality. They never ignore the truth (like Fudge does), they are never too cowardly or too lazy to take the steps that are necessary.They never just ignore problems even if they can't solve them easily.
AND to me it was also important that HP is not like "You're a good guy if you beat the bad guys". I mean, all the Dark wizards like Vol, Wormtail, Draco, Barty Crouch Junior have some aspects in them you can relate to or understand and in all the "good" characters you can see how they might be bad if they made different decisions (see CoS...).
Hmmm... there are so many things to say about it and I guess I can't really express myself...

[pasalita]

*bump*

[Puffskein]

I don't think I can add much here! I agree with the Bildungsroman idea, and good vs evil up to a point. HP characters are complex human beings that sometimes make the wrong choices if it's easy enough. The series has some interesting things to say about how our heritage, personality and experiences shape the way we are.

I think Harry is close to being 'everyman' because it's so hard to define his character as anything other than 'normal'. He has feelings that everyone can relate to.

There's a quotation in Shakespeare (Twelfth Night I think): "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them". Harry was born great and then had greatness thrust upon him, while now he is learning to achieve greatness. Of course, some of those who are "born great" (eg Malfoys) don't behave well, and greatness can be put to bad use as well as good.

[Skyfang]

Don't get me wrong, I mean not insult anyone, I just want to state something.

People try to compare Harry Potter to the teaching of the church,

but

Do you have to involve the church in everything?

Not everything has to do with the church tachings. There are far more older things than that. The church may have been involved with a lot of things in the past, but that time is over.

[Firebolt]

Harry Potter book has all the teaching that you are all mentioned above. To add to that, he is representing one human being on earth to go through one life cycle from beginning to the end of life. (Harry Potter book shows only 17 years of Harry live) In between that one need to find yourselves how to use all your senses (hearing, seeing, touching, feeling) and make a worthy living in a way that suit you without hurting one others. Life is short, to make a most of it, it need experiences, trying everything, good or bad, right or wrong, black or white, happy or sad, etc. Each person has 2 sides in yourselves until you will find the middle path that make all you senses making sense, that is worth living. It also shows that nobody is perfect. Harry Potter is not perfect, he just trying to find himself.

[Slytherin_Chick]

well i agree with everything that has been said!
:D
i think it's good vrs evil **but that comes with most stories**
that it's about the comming of age,
but also about what's right and what's easy

:)

[Severely Snapped]

Originally posted by Cat
But there is one essence of the core that I picked up on and somebody already said it - good versus evil. I'd call it the light versus the dark. That is very old-fashioned story telling and it's been picked up again after so many political/depressive/cuddly/bad romance books. It is the stuff of fairy tales and fantasy. It has the ethics of something Biblical, and I don't know why the book-burning weirdos won't allow themselves to see that.

I was going to respond, but I can't put it any better than that. Well said, Cat.

[Bilbo]

I don't think Harry Potter is an everyman. He does have many traits of an average person and some of their same doubts. However, Harry Potter is more than the everyman or person to be politically correct. He rises from the dirt the Dursely's have buried him in to become an amiable and well adjusted person. He shows maturity and a willingness to learn. Although still naive about the magical world, he is able to become a great Seeker.

[Godric]

I think one of the major themes that hasn't really been mentioned yet is Love. Maybe it's not mentioned specifically very often, but it runs throughout the books. The love of Harry's parents that helped to save him, his love for his friends, Ron, Hermione, Hagrid. I think this is what allows Harry to keep coming out on top when faced with Voldemort.

Other themes of course include courage, making good and just choices, and treating people fairly. I particularly like the confrontation of prejudice against Muggles or Elfs.

Finally, these are books about becoming who you are. Even if you are destined to become something, it doesn't happen automatically, you must work hard and make good choices to fullfill your destiny the best you can.

[daniel4hp]

Poll: What is/are your favorite theme(s) in Harry Potter? (you may choose more than one)
Good vs. Evil The realness of evil; Good is stronger than evil
Sacrafice and Love The strength of love and how it works with sacrafice
Friendship and Loyalty The importance of loyal friends; not betraying others
Prejudice and Tolerance Accepting others and their differences; all are equal
The choices you make make you who you are You control your fate; Your past does not control your future; Responsibility for actions; Choosing what is right
Other

Discussion
Which did you choose?
If you chose "other," what is you favorite theme?
Why did you choose the theme you chose?
Have any of the themes effected your life? If so, how?
Do you agree that these themes are in the books? What other themes do you think exist in Harry Potter?
Do you agree with all the themes in the books?
Please remember that all questions are optional; you do not have to answer anything you don't want to. Also, feel free to add your own questions to the ones listed above.

[Virtuousdream]

I voted for all of them. With any of the themes missing, I think the books would be inbalanced.

[Cat]

Originally posted by helhorns
I voted for all of them. With any of the themes missing, I think the books would be inbalanced.

I agree with helhorns.

It is, primarily, a story to be told. It's not guidance councilling. The deal is, in any great story there are lessons to learn as you go by (whether you choose to acknowledge them is up to you). The 'themes' in Harry Potter are the driving plot factor. They're the cement for the brickwork.

I couldn't pick out a single one, it would be like trying to pluck out one string from a cotton reel. No, I've gone on to cotton when I was trying to go with masonry. Alright, I'm afraid that if I pick at just one aspect of the story, the wall will crumble down on me. I choose to run headlong into the whole wall instead.

Wheeeeeeeeeouch.

[Ava]

Yeah, those things are the things that makes the books so great.

[Snowangel]

I picked tolerance and prejudice and the choices that make you who you are, although I agree that all the themes are important (they're also all linked).

The reason I chose the above ones is because I think that I really responded to those themes particularly when I was reading the book. I'm not sure why but I could really relate to them.

[ilovelifex1000]

I opted for "The choices are what make you who you are". I feel that is one of the strongest themes for me, but I , like many others, feel all of the themes have equal importance in the books.

[HarryPotterLover]

I do agree with hellhorns, however I picked good v evil, loyalty & friendship and the choices we make.

I think the characters learn lessons in these three especially.
They learn who their friends are and Harry learns he is different from the Dark Lord, for his choice not to be in Slytherin.

[daniel4hp]

I voted for Good vs. Evil. While, like others have said, all are important, I feel that is at the core of the story and is the most important of the themes.

[mrsweasley]

I picked friends and loyalty and the choices you make.
I think that applies so much to the books, but also in real life.
These may be books about wizards and magic, but aren't they really about human nature? Kids growing up and learning to deal with what they're going to be confronted with in adulthood. Will they be good or evil, loyal to friends or selfish, acceptable of differences in others and willing to live with the choices they have made?

[dr_strangelove]

i picked prejudice and tolerance. while all of the themes are important and interconnected, i find that there is still a great deal of intolerance in the world, and i'm always for someone who stands up for differences

[Trinity]

I picked other because courage is my favourite theme in the book.

[Beatrice Bottbean]

Wow! I wish I had seen this thread earlier - I am pretty new at this and want to talk about everything but never know where to look or what I'm doing. You guys all have incredible ideas. I thought Ezra Pippin's post was beautiful and can't imagine a better way to summarize the core of the books.

As for Harry being every-man, my initial instinct, just after first reading the books, was "no." However, I began to ask myself what made me read them over and over. Sure there was great stuff in there, but I have read lots of great books I have loved, and never had the same desire to return to them right away as I did with HP. Then, when I told a few people familiar with the story that I thought I related to him in many ways, the responses that I got from others were almost bordering on indignant. They, like me, saw their own stories in Harry Potter and therefore thought I must have been slightly presumptive to see my story, which of course differed from theirs. Seeing your question here brought that back to me.

I do agree, however, that Harry Potter endures to a degree that possibly only an extraordinary man could. Yet Harry is by no means infallible or beyond reproach. He endures in a way that is very human and accessible. I think it is no mistake that Harry's world turns upside-down on his 11th birthday. That is approximately the age where, according to Piaget, abstract thought begins along with a deeper understanding of one's world - you find out that you are not exactly sure where you belong. I think it is this struggle that Harry undergoes to find out who he is and decide not only what is right, but whether to actively seek what is right - a struggle that, as the presence of characters close to Harry such as Dumbledore and McGonagal illustrates, will not end when he finishes Hogwarts. It's also the realization that perhaps who is and what he should be is not what the only family he's ever known wants him to be or become. More than that, he must accept the fact that he can't be what they want him to be or become. Just as others have stated, he does not look for trouble, he also does not appear to look for the moments that make him "the famous Harry Potter."

One of the keys to Harry's ideal man versus every man approach is summed up by the last lines in the fourth book, "whatever would come, would come ... and he would have to meet it when it did." This statement is true for everyone or every man. The difference arises in whether everyone is able to accept this or not. Harry says in the line immediately preceding this one that there is no point in worrying. It is this acceptance of what is necessarily unknown that I think exemplifies what is truly extraordinary about Harry.

Harry, in so many ways, represents much of what we are, and at the very same time, much of what we strive for. I think that even though he accomplishes things that we view as extraordinary, he accomplishes them in such a believable and accessible way, that we are able to believe ourselves capable of greatness as well. In the scene at the end of Book 3, Harry conjures the patronus and says, "I knew I could do it because I've already done it." This is the extraordinary effect of Harry on the reader - not only is he perhaps the ideal man that we struggle to become, but he makes us identify with him as every man and believe we can get there.

I hope this makes sense - I am very tired and worried I just talked myself in circles but I will come back to the other questions raised here soon and try to edit this if when I read it with a clearer head, I confuse myself.

[crookshanks76]

I feel the main core of Potter is as simple as a good idea stashed away inside an amazing author. I feel Harry's world seemed to have grown around Harry. It took JK Rowling's 5 years to write The Sorcerer's Stone. The characters, the plot, the class-structure had been given life and after creating this world we all so dearly love, the morals of life, freedom, heartache and friendship have wept through, thus we have Harry.

A young boy, with a distinct physical feature. He has been put through trials and tribulations many children could never fathom (Muggle or Wizard). But by doing so, the choices he makes will determine his future. It's very elementary, yet very hardcore advice...choose wisely because your past will show its face later in your life. Very good advice to give to the targeted reading age of 9-13. And don't be afraid to be different. I think kids need to hear that more often, so they don't go through the uniform slush pile of life.

[Perdita]

[i]Originally posted by daniel4hp
Discussion
Which did you choose?
If you chose "other," what is you favorite theme?
Why did you choose the theme you chose?
Have any of the themes effected your life? If so, how?
Do you agree that these themes are in the books? What other themes do you think exist in Harry Potter?
Do you agree with all the themes in the books?


I chose "choices that make who we are" because that is how I live my life. I know that there are many factors that influence our actions and our decisions. Regardless of whether they are positive or negative influences, in the end, we make the decisions and we are the ones who have to live with it and act upon those intentions.

I used to think a bit like Ron, why was my life the way it was? Why did teachers always let my friends always get away with things, but they always punished me for it if I got caught? Why did the parents of my friends give them so much freedom to do whatever they want, and yet my parents were so strict? Why were my friends so brave that they could break the rules and have fun, yet I was always too afraid to take risks?

Eventually, I realized that it isn't what other people do or give me that makes who I am. It's what I do with my own talents and convictions. It was when I attained this facet of maturation that I understood what self-esteem was.

.

[FoolOnTheHill]

All of them are really good but I chose the Choices one and the Friendship and Loyalty one. I completely agree with the Choices theme in my own life and it is very true in the books too. I like how Friendship and loyalty plays a part in things, like with the Marauders' friendships.

[HPviolinist85]

it deffinitely can't be limited to just one theme. I think the main themes are predjudice, courage, morals, choices, friendships and overcoming evil

[Sirius83]

The core? Its hard to say. Friendship? Classic good vs. evil? Perhaps its just trying to be normal, but you can't because of who you are. Maybe its what Dumbledore said.

"It is not our abilities that make us who we are, it is our choices."

There is a lot of this theme in the book. As stated in Goblet of Fire, it is choosing what is right, not what is easy. I think this theme, the theme of choosing what is right rather than taking the easy path - is probably the core of the book. This, along with friendship and loyalty, although they tie into the choices theme as well. The friendship and loyalty of the characters; or lack thereof - Peter Pettigrew betraying Lily and James Potter as an example, has often struck me as being a very important part of the story.

Do you think Harry represents the "every man"? How?
Yes. Harry faces the kind of internal conflict that many of us do. How often has he wanted to do something, and not gone through with it? Harry tries to be accepted for who he is, not what he is. This is another problem many of us face. People often do not see us for who we are. While Harry's issues are quite beyond what we have to go through, his basic underlying drive is in common with most of us.

What moral/value in the HP story do you connect with the most?
Friendship. I have to say that i value my friends probably more than anything. I may not often show it, but i really do. I don't know exactly why though, but i just connect straight away with the friendship aspect of Harry Potter.

[Ava]

The books focus on many aspects. Not only does it show the battle between the good and evil forces, it shows the amazing journey of a boy in both his magical and the outside world --- where he gets to know the meaning of the big things along the way --- friendship, courage, love, and self-discovery.
What moral/value in the HP story do you connect with the most?
Friendship and Sacrifice The value of friendship and the willingness to sacrifice things for the benefit of others brings true meaning to life.

Making the right choice. As Dumbledore said, it is our choices in life that shows us what we truly are, regardless of our abilities and status in life.

Sidenote: Sirius83, that line's my very first siggy here in CoS. Glad we share the same favorite quote.:D

[Sirius83]

heh heh - cool :D
I've always liked this line, actually, i think there are several meaningful quotes from that wise old wizard!

[Jinxie Cat]

Which did you choose?
i chose them all....i think a lot of the themes, especially good vs. evil, show up in all the books.

If you chose "other," what is you favorite theme?
i didn't choose "other" :)

Why did you choose the theme you chose?
he he he i stated that in the first question :D

Have any of the themes effected your life? If so, how?
i'm sure all of the themes have affected me at one point or another

Do you agree that these themes are in the books? What other themes do you think exist in Harry Potter?
definitely! all of the the themes are in the books

Do you agree with all the themes in the books?
yup

[spellman1216]

I believe that the core to the Harry Potter series is not the magic or how society is or anything like that. I believe that the series is a basic message of good vs. evil. There are many ways to display good vs. evil but J.K. Rowling picked this way which is good for captivating readers of all ages. The book doesn't show satenism :devil: (they celebrate Christmas). The magic used in this book is to show the fight vs. good and evil. It shows you can accomplish anything you set your mind to. It shows that the characters have morals and the good characters would do anything to stop evil. And it shows that evil does not prevail which gives readers a good lesson and may even teach them not to do crime. The real magic in this book is that it makes people want to read and it does all of the above.

spellman1216 :D

[Doggy]

I admit, I voted for all of them (except the "other"). They're all so crucial- Take one away and what have you got?

[DRaGoNoFiLlFaItH]

I picked good vs evil, cuz if it didnt exist then the story wouldnt have been made, it all started with good vs evil

[Louise Moran]

I think that DD's speech to Harry about it being our choices, rather than our abilities, that show who we really are, comes closest to showing the central point of the story. In the first three books we have a fair amount of ability in the plotlines (the whole introduction of a magical world and what people can do within it).

In GoF, we are seeing the choices that the various characters within the story are making. That is (in my opinion) why the books are getting darker. The choices are of course related to the eternal theme of good and evil.

[rikuownsyou]

Good vs evil was and always has been my faveriote...

[Mayerlin]

First of all, I agree with the fact that all themes mentionned in the poll are in the books. All of them are crucial to the story and crucial in life.

I chose Prejudice and Tolerance, Friendship and Loyalty and Sacrifice and Love in that specific order.

The reason for those choices is fairly simple. Those particular themes just find a stronger echo in my life.

I don't want to go into too many details but as a handicapped person, I've been the victim of stupid prejudices.

I must also say that I'm lucky. I have true friends and I could not live without them. I also have a loving and united family that accepted many sacrifices so that I could get an education. :)

[paperflowergirl]

I agree that all of the above are part of the books, but there are some other ones I think we should consider as well.

How about Death. A lot of the book is about Harry dealing with the fact that his parents died, the fight against Voldemort whose greatest desire is to escape death. There is the phoenix, which symbolizes resurrection, there are ghosts, memories, dreams, echoes, and living people, all displaying varying degrees of being alive. Dumbledore describes death as the next great adventure, yet it is also something to be dredded.

Also there are a lot of religious / spiritual themes. Consider the sacrifice of Lily Potter which rids the world of evil, much like Jesus' sacrificed himself for humanity. Just by looking up the names of the characters in the books, we can see that there is something messianic about Harry. If this does not sound convincing to you, check out this article: www.geocities.com/paperflowergirl9/

[paperflowergirl]

WOW!
This thread has some amazing ideas. It is the first place I have seen such a good indepth discussion of the HP books - treating them like real literature as opposed to just popular childrens-books. I think that there are many themes present in the HP books, many of which have been explored very well by others in this thread.
I wish to point out a few things that have become increasingly clear to me while doing research on the names in the books. (check out my article: www.geocities.com/paperflowergirl9/)
This is what Rowling said in an interview:
Every time I’ve been asked if I believe in God, I’ve said yes because I do. But no one ever really has gone any more deeply into it than that and, I have to say that does suit me. ... If I talk too freely about that, I think the intelligent reader-- whether 10 or 60-- will be able to guess what is coming in the books.
Now, through my name analysis I saw there is something very messianic about Harry. If you consider the symbols used, from a christian point of view, the meaning and symbolism of the snake, the lion, the phoenix, etc. is defenitely present in the books.
Someone said: "do you have to involve the church in everything?"
Well, in my opinion the books are not about the Church. This is because the mythological and religious elements she uses appear not only in the bible, but in greek and roman mythology, in Indian mythology and Hinduism, and many other sources. In this way her books are about the eternal battle between good and evil, but in a way that is much more profoundly, yet more subtily, religious than that of, e.g. star wars. I think many people (among them the christian right in the US) let the surface of spells and magic come in the way of understanding what the books are really about. Therefore I think this thread is a great!
I hope my thoughts were not too confusing.

[Weatherby]

I think HP is so evolved and complex it has more than one theme but perhaps the biggest is releasing our potentionals.

[Alastor D]

I agree with Weatherby. There is more than one theme. One is those kids groving up, finding themselves and their places in the community and whatever groving up means.

But didn't JKR say in an interview that the story is mainly abt learning to chose between what's right and what's easy?

And paperflowergirl, I don't believe in Harry being messianic. The symbolism you refer to was invented long before christianity.

[paperflowergirl]

exactly! In virtually all religions and mythologies the divine, whether it be God, Gods, Godesses, or someone else sends messengers, heroes, messiahs, incarnations, prophets, avatars, (there are a lot of names) to protect mankind and defeat evil in one form or other. It just so happens that the cultural background of HP (England) happens to be Christian, and because of this it is only natural that there should be some Christian connotations as well. JKR is also christian.
I think that one of the things that makes the HP books so universally popular is that Rowling has understood that there are certain universals that have existed as long as mankind.

[Buttercup]

I think that one of the main themes is love like Godric mentioned before. Love will be the key to Voldemorts destruction.

Harry as the 'everyman'.

Everyone can find something about Harry to relate to. Overcoming a bad childhood, reluctance to get involved in a situation but doing it anyway because it is the right thing to do, his shyness, learning to trust, there are many levels to Harry.

Value: friendship. To me my friends have helped and supported me more than my parents ever did. I would not be the person I am today without my friends. I hope that I can live my life in such a way to be a friend to someone like I had my friends treat me.

[Lupin_Sirius_Fan]

Friendship, and good overcoming evil.

[Lupin_Sirius_Fan]

Oooh, honesty and trust as well.

[shawntat]

I picked "The choices that you make, make you who you are" because since we do not know Harry's true past, it will be the choices that he makes now that shape his future future.

So, this is my fave theme...

[Goldie]

I chose "the choices you make" because I think all the other options stem from that.

You can choose to be good or evil. No one is born in either state.

You can choose to sacrifice yourself for love, or just walk away.

You can decide friendship and loyalty are important and worth having, or you can cut yourself off from everyone.

And you can choose to be tolerant of other people or not, even if you're raised in an intolerant atmosphere.

[Puffskein]

I'm with everyone else who said all the themes are important. That's just another great thing about the books. While there is certainly a good vs evil struggle in the book, I think it's a big oversimplification to say it's a good vs evil story. Part of the point is that everyone has the potential to do evil if they make the wrong choices.

[dumbleedore]

I voted for Good vs. Evil, Friendship and Loyalty, Prejudice and Tolerance and The choices you make make you who you are.

If I had to choose just one of those, I would choose The choices you make make you who you are because it is true. If you could for every descision sit down and make a flow chart, the core choice ends up on about 50 different branches, depending on the choice you make next.

[JofpGallagher]

Discussion

Which did you choose?
Friendship and loyalty.
If you chose "other," what is you favorite theme?
Not aplicable
Why did you choose the theme you chose?
Because the center of the book is how these children (Harry, Ron and Hermione) grow facing several situations that only with loyalty and friendship they can overcome. Dumbledore is constantly teaching in his appearances about loyalty, second chances, and friendship.
Have any of the themes effected your life? If so, how?[b]
I have learned that friendship is a treasure throughout my life.
[b]Do you agree that these themes are in the books? What other themes do you think exist in Harry Potter?
Yes, in some extent all these themes are presented on the books. However, I'd like to add Family values. With the Weasleys though not all the time, we are learning about good family values. Love, respect, humor sense, respect.
Do you agree with all the themes in the books?
Yep, I have nothing to complain about it.

[FawkesBox]

I agree that all the themes work together to make the incredible integrated whole of JKR's universe however- I just think that the friendship/loyalty thing touched me the most.
We are only as strong as we are united and as weak divided. In an uncertain world we must stick together (Sticking together is what good waffles do- The Simpsons)

[Grace Granger]

All themes are important, but being that this is my opinion I chose Friendship and Loyalty because I love the friendship that HRH have, even though they do argue a lot amongst themselves.

[whizbang121]

Doesn't look like there have been any posts here since OotP. Any one have any insights since reading Bk 5?

[silver ink pot]

:evil: Well, Whizbang, I'm not one to hide my opinions, as you know. So here is my spin on this question.

My opinion on the 'core' reflects the topics I discuss here everyday. As paperflowergirl wrote, the themes are as old as time: good and evil, growing up, a miraculous child saved from death, discovering secrets about oneself, becoming educated beyond the normal routine, and recognizing potential. These themes are universal and reflect the "collective unconscious" of humanity.

If any of you have read the Alchemy Thread, you will discover there is definitely a structure in the books based on the work of Medieval Scientist/Philosophers. The idea of the Philosopher's stone was the highest attainment in alchemy, with each of us "becoming" the stone. From birth to death, the alchemists believed that man is refined by his suffering and experiences, and the highest "work" was the attainment of a balanced personality. A person has to learn to deal with fear, pain, hurt feelings, success, failure, fame, and hardship. A person has to deal with the past and the present and the future. Each of us has a male and female side that has to be recognized. In the Potter Books that is obvious in the frequent mentions of parental figures, and the very names of things: The DA (Dumbledore's Army), the DADA (Defense Against the Dark Arts), MOM (Ministry of Magic), patronus (from pater, "father"). Each stage of life is symolized by an animal: snake, dragon, hippogriff, gryffin, white lion, red lion, green lion, white pelican, eagle, etc. The great psychologist Carl Jung thought Alchemy was a great way to look at human thoughts and emotions because it is symbolic, the way we dream. If you read the story of Jung's life, it becomes clear that JKR has read it too, since his boyhood has alot in common with Harry's, with ill health, strange dreams, and many of the same school experiences. So that's what I think is the "core" of the books. :agree:

Of course, evil exists in these books, and I think a major theme is the "temptation" of evil and the power it brings. In that way, I think JKR is dealing with the story of "Faust," in which a man makes a bargain with a devil and loses his own soul. I think that is Tom Riddle's story, as well as the Death Eater's. They have made their choice and they are trapped and their families are trapped. Anyone 'marked' such as Harry and Snape, are also trapped through pain and fear no matter what they do. The trick is to be strong enough to fight temptation the way Dumbledore does. Love is the key to overcoming evil, as was seen in the fight with Voldemort at the MOM.

Of course, there are so many mythological names and storybook names in these books, that a good case could be made in favor of Harry Potter assort of the Arabian Nights of our time!

I think Harry is an "everyman" because we see things through his eyes, and he is as in the dark as we are sometimes. He has gone 'through the looking glass" into a world that mirrors our own, but is upside down and backwards - people walk into fireplaces, classrooms are dangerous, schools have "hospital wings" instead of good insurance companies, lol. And he helps us realize that perception and reality are two different things - people aren't always what they seem, and neither are animals!

I think the moral or theme that I connect with personally is that "class" or "house" or "rich" or "poor" don't really matter! I think a major theme is that no one is inferior to anyone except when they do evil things. Everyone has contradictions inside themselves, but if you choose friendship and love, you will be OK, no matter what House you are in, whether you are a muggle or a pureblood. That is my personally favorite theme!

[Constant Vigilance]

The theme from harry Potter that has the most importance for me is the union of love and loyalty. I understand loyalty as the responsability you have with your loved ones and the values you share and defend in union with your friends. It's what the greeks called Philadelfia, that's not any kind of brotherly love. It's the love shared by greek citycents that fought together to defend their cities: like the Spartan Hopplites. They did not fight for the fun of it, the sacrificed themselves to protect their city, their value sistem, their comrades (friends) and their families.

Example of this concept in Harry Potter: The difference between Sirius and Pettigrew. Sirius expected Pettigrew to die for his friends. Sirius did die for Harry.

Harry makes lots of sacrifices in his fight against Voldemort, his childhood has been taken away. He is always responsible for helping his friends and he gets his strength from them (the Patronus in OoTP when he tought in Ron & Hermionie). Harry is strong but he is strongest with the trio and the six.

This is real friendship. It stands on trust and shared values and is responsible. I think it's a great idea to expose kids (and adults) to this type of world vision. In this sense GoF and OoTP remind me of Gates of Fire, a story of men loyal to each other to the death. In today's excesivelly individualistic society it's good to read about this kind of friendship. I guess I value this a lot due to the fact I've had very few friends that really stood by me.

[whizbang121]

Alchemy thread? Where is that hiding? I'll be right over. (Okay, I've been hanging around birthday parties on the Snape thread. Can't keep up with everything.:no:)
Silverinkpot, you have a gift of bringing everything together and making it sensible. JKR has so many intertwining themes and concepts, not to mention all the details. Bringing it together is a feat.

Have you noticed how the internet makes us blind to each other? We have long and deep conversations with people we would never stop and talk to on the street. Deaf, dumb and blind, we communicate entirely in the realm of the mind. Extraordinary evolutionary step.;) I think the sorting hat would like it.

Constant Vigilance,
Lots of parents on this board. And it's true, the comraderie evident among Harry and his friends as with the older members of the order of the Phoenix is difficult to find anymore. I think it's about sacrifice, being willing to die for something greater than oneself. Sometimes, being a parent brings that home like nothing else.

[silver ink pot]

Gee, thanks, Whizbang! :blush: The thread is called "The Importance of Alchemy" and was started by Venustas. It is really deep! It was hard to understand at first, but the more I read, the more it seemed to fit these books!

I'm sure I would talk to you and Bailey on the street! :lol:

Great Post, Constant Vigilance!

I think during the coming 'war' that the Spartan view will become prominent! It is something you could call the 'core' of the book as well! Harry is a Spartan in his upbringing, his hard work, and his friendships! All the children and teachers eat together at Hogwarts and at Grimmauld Place - a very Spartan idea. Snape could be a Spartan leader since he doesn't believe in doing anything the "easy" way: all his detentions depend on elbow grease. He insists on obedience to authority - very Spartan. And remember the test that Lupin gives as his final exam in PoA? He makes the children do an obstacle course that is very militaristic. The famous leader of the Spartans and the founder of their democratic government was named 'Lycurgus' or "wolf worker." So he was a wolfish leader like Lupin, and he hadlost an eye like Moody, who is like a soldier/commander.

Here is a good link about Spartan life, with an excerpt about the wittiness of the Spartans. That is certainly a big part of the Harry Potter books!

http://www.e-classics.com/lycurgus.htm

Their sayings were so sharp and pertinent that the Spartans were more famous for their wit than for their prowess as soldiers and athletes. Even though at war and in sports they were by far the best in Greece, intellectual exercise was considered to be the essence of the Spartan way of life. From an early age, they learned to pack many layers of meaning into a few words -- and, more importantly, when to speak and when to shut up.

Bravo on pointing this out, Constant Vigilance! :clap:

[Constant Vigilance]

One of the interesting things about the Harry Potter books is that the idea of the "coming of age" story is strengthened by the fact that this is the story of a joung man's education. The journey of growing up to adulthood serves two purposes: first to give a critical assesment of education (a satire of bad educational practices, a proposal of an ideal education) and second, to show a belief sistem. That's why it's difficult to pinpoint the "core" of the books. The books' "core" is moral education, so it's multifaceted: it includes love, frienship, courage, duty, the importance of having fun and lots of other things.

School life is really one of the core themes of the book. It gives a pretty unromantic picture: school bullies, difficult teachers, bad teachers (Binns, Lockheart), excesive workload. But it also states that learning is cool. For every bad teacher there is a good authority figure. JKR is a very strict person: Harry loathes Snape, but Dumbledore won't let him dissrespect him. Fudge is a disaster, but Arthur is a model public servant.

Today the best selling books in the world are about kids that love going to a school that makes them work and study almost to extenuation! The love for education is clearly at the center of this story. First time I read an epic saga were the princess is changed for a bookworm. Bravo!

Silverinkpot: thank's for the link on Sparta. I'm reading it.
Whizbang121: I'm a daddy too!

[silver ink pot]

Constant Vigilance: Great Point about the "core" being hard to define. I think that is because the "universe" of the books is so well-formed and complex.

You are so right about the way school life is depicted. But that is reality! Most kids who love school usually have one or two teachers they could live without! Harry is always happy to be going back to school even though Snape lies in wait to make him miserable. I always like the cordial way the teachers treat eachother, as well. I think Hermione is a great role model for all students, but Harry is a child who isn't at the top of his class, yet sometimes he pushes himself to stay up an do homework. Alot of kids are probably surprised when he does that.

Of course, Harry doesn't have computers and television and video games to lure him away from his books, the way muggle children do! I hope my children read this post! :D

[FawkesBox]

I think that OOtP also strongly addressed this theme. The DA is based on a circle of friendship. Look at the "sneak" that betrayed them! Also there is the friendship (and fighting) within the OOtP. Also there are the death eaters. Although I would not say that they are exactly good friends, their strengths comes from their bonds. In this sense, perhaps Voldemort will be particularly vulnerable: not because he has no bonds, but instead he has no friends because he rules by fear...

[madjh]

I like that nothing has been easy for Harry (except flying). He's had to deal with the sacrifices everyone else has made (ie his mother's death) and make so amny sacrfifices of his own. And I think he's beginning to learn that while the choices he's made and the choices that were made for him (Dumbledore, why couldn't you have told him earlier???) have been difficult, the people he loves make the sacrifices worthwile.

[[Pretty]_[Unicorn]]

I think the theme you choose who you are expresses all the other themes because lets say you are a nice person who is loving and will sacrifice themselves for what they believe is right roots the main idea of them choosing to be that way. The person you choose to be reflects what you choose and why you chose it.

[Falchman]

I was looking for a thread of this sort in the forums, did not find one. Please remove if its a repeat.

What social messages/themes does JKR show in HP ?

1- Racism, between the Wizarding world and the "Muggle World". Lucious Malfoy describes Arthur Weasly as a disgrace to the name of Wizard because of his Job involving muggles. Vernon hates the wizarding world, describing Dumbledore as a crack pot old fool.
Racism is apparent in the wizarding world aswell, between pure bloods and not pure bloods "mudbloods". And i am sure, that JKR will reveal more in later books.

2- Richer isn't better - we see the happy and contented lives of the poverty stricken Weasleys in comparison to the coldness of the upper class Malfoys.

3- They're still human - Professor Lupin and the werewolf condition is a superb metaphor for illness and disabilities. We see how poorly he is treated, how his rights are threatened, how difficult for him to get a job - it's easy to compare this to the suffering of somebody with AIDS or HIV.

4- Death is a part of life - this message seems to be one of the most consuming factors of the series. Voldemort, the evil power of the story, defies death and remains barely human. The phoenix, a reoccurcing character and image of symbolism, dies and is born again repeatedly.

5- Everybody can change - another phoenix metaphor is as a representation of second chances. Dumbledore is held most dear for giving second chances to those who others think aren't deserving. EG - Hagrid.

6- Choose your own path - we have four houses, four personality types, four driving forces behind human nature, all of which can follow their own paths and choose what is right or easy, good or evil. Yes, even the crawliest Slytherins - snakes shed their skins, you know. We also see in comparison the similar childhoods of Tom Riddle and Harry Potter - one who became the villain and one who is the hero.
Thanks Cat for 2-6 :tu:

7- Beauty is only skin deep - Many examples of this throughout the 5 books. Like the Veela, Fleur can be seen as quite a rude and obnoxious character, not liking Hogwarts (food!), embarising Ron, making fun of Harry. JKR makes her outward appearance intoxicating, hyperbollised by the atributes of the Veela. But under all that beauty shes a nasty person. The opposite can be seen in Hermoine, (Not the movie Hermoine), who has big teeth, very bushy hair. But is a great person, and a wonderful character.

What are the implications of these Moral Messages?

Reading http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/20011101/ARTICLES/obrien_potter_one.htm (http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/20011101/ARTICLES/obrien_potter_one.htm)

The arguments presented there are flawless, what are your opinions on the authors article?
I love reading about HP but I dont want to go join a cult to gain "power".

Read this aswell http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html (http://www.firstthings.com/ftissues/ft0001/reviews/jacobs.html)
And this http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/20010101/ARTICLES/potter_no.htm (http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/20010101/ARTICLES/potter_no.htm)

[Cat]

Waah, I wrote a good reply and a pop-up message lost the whole lot!

Anyway, I don't believe that the series conjures a message of occultism or magical practises. Fantasy, fairy tale and fable, three big 'f's, along with a lot of science fiction stories, are the media for the most moral and politcal messages. The way in which these messages are presented does not affect the message itself. Cinderella is not there to tell us that we must marry a prince to gain self worth. Nobody who reads Animal Farm complains 'Hey, animals don't talk!'.

And so forth.

I have more messages of morality -

Richer isn't better - we see the happy and contented lives of the poverty stricken Weasleys in comparison to the coldness of the upper class Malfoys.

They're still human - Professor Lupin and the werewolf condition is a superb metaphor for illness and disabilities. We see how poorly he is treated, how his rights are threatened, how difficult for him to get a job - it's easy to compare this to the suffering of somebody with AIDS or HIV.

Death is a part of life - this message seems to be one of the most consuming factors of the series. Voldemort, the evil power of the story, defies death and remains barely human. The phoenix, a reoccurcing character and image of symbolism, dies and is born again repeatedly.

Everybody can change - another phoenix metaphor is as a representation of second chances. Dumbledore is held most dear for giving second chances to those who others think aren't deserving.

Choose your own path - we have four houses, four personality types, four driving forces behind human nature, all of which can follow their own paths and choose what is right or easy, good or evil. Yes, even the crawliest Slytherins - snakes shed their skins, you know. We also see in comparison the similar childhoods of Tom Riddle and Harry Potter - one who became the villain and one who is the hero.

Some might think it a contradiction to display this message and then use prophecies as a plot element. But I believe that prophecies don't tell you which route to travel, they merely see the choice. Besides, sometimes there are robbers down the path you take. Bad occurances of fate just happen, unyielding to the ever-available force of choice.

[Drusilla]

Great posts,everyone!The true core of the stories is a pretty tough thing to put down in black and white (or whatever colour your CoS style shows up on your computer) but it's basically the story of one boy-one EXTRAORDINARY young man,really-and his realization of who and what he is as he comes of age.I agree with everyone who says this and there are things he learns along the way that we,the readers,pick up along with him-easier to pick up because
the story is told from his point of view,and they are simple:friendship is precious,every action has consequences,things often aren't what they seem,and evil is as evil does,people shouldn't be judged on the basis of things they can't help and even if they've done wrong in the past,they can change IF THEY CHOOSE TO.

[Discordia]

*shrugs* Or maybe in his own twisted way Voldemort was right. That there is no good and evil. Only power and those too weak to see it. There may be some truth to that on varied levels. To an extent he may have a point.

In real life the idea that good over evil always wins is in some instances not always true. There are always going to be rotten people in the world and that's just how things are. Just becasue your good doesn't mean you'll automatically win the battle. I guess it's like the saying goes you can lose the battle but win the war which may be how it all ends.
I think that like everyone's said it all boils down to choice. Regardless of how someone is born but what they choose to do with there life. Riddle may have made some bad choices in life but it was what he wanted.

[Discordia]

His ability to forgive others will probably show much later on in the book as to not forgive is something we would associate with Voldemort himself, so in a way Harry by nature should end up forgiving those who have harmed him.

It kind of reminds me though of a quote from that new movie Man on Fire where Denzel Washington goes, forgiveness is between them and god. It's just my job to arrange the meeting.
As for Harry forgiving those that have wronged him...well there's a difference between forgiveness and pity. Harry never forgave Wormtail and the only reason he allowed him to live was becasue he didn't want Lupin and Sirius to turn into true murderers. There are some people that I don't belive deserve forgiveness. Whether Harry decided to commit murder or not isn't really his place to decide. I mean who are we to judge who deserves life or death? I don't really think that's it's our decision to make since it's not like we choose who gets into heaven or hell. It's like Sirius said: the world isn't divided into good people and deatheaters.

[thatsincentive]

Good Vs. Evil is too vague to define the 'core' of the HP series. There's so much involved, so I'm glad we could pick more than one option.
I don't know about the whole Sacrifice/Love thing. First of all, it's more about the search for love. Harry has no family left (that we know of), and although he does have the Weasleys and his friends, he still feels as though something's missing. The whole sacrifice thing actually fits in with the loyalty theme.. Ron in SS during the chess game, Harry going after Sirius in OotP ..

Anyway, I chose -

Friendship and loyalty - Obviously, there is a great deal of importance given to both Ron and Hermione, and their relationship with Harry. They help Harry A LOT, and have stuck by him throughout so many difficult times (there have been the occasional arguments, duh). The friction between Draco and Harry isn't shared by the Weasleys and Hermione only because Draco pokes at them, too. They all stick up for each other. Ron sticking up for Hermione, Ginny for Harry, etc. This theme definitely plays a huge role in the story.

Prejudice and Tolerance - Mudbloods, purebloods, muggles.. obviously going to be a lot of tension between those different groups of people. JK Rowling said that The Chamber of Secrets is the book (so far) that has as its main focus the prejudice between mudbloods and purebloods. There's a whole book dedicated to it.. so, it's definitely one of the core motifs.

The choices you make, make you who you are - Yeah.