Atheists encouraging Atheists

[Dementor Dave]

I find that as I walk through this life we all live in, it is hard for everyone. Even those who do not acknowledge the existence of a god. In fact, for some atheists, it may indeed be harder, being in a place that is predominantly Christian. It is, at best, unpopular to believe in nothing.

In short, I'm creating this thread for the faithless to support one another throughout life's problems, most especially those involved in the challenging of our faithlessness.

[Wep]

You know I have never been embarrassed by being considered an Atheist, I am, I guess, proud of my choice. (And I don't mean that is what you meant by this thread. I swear I have a point it may just take me a while to get there).

Actually I don't think it was really a choice, just natural progression. And I know in a society like ours, it can be difficult upholding your values and choices in a very Christian/Catholic society. But I guess, I am grateful I don't live in America, because it is not as full on here (though it is growing and it does scare me a tad).

I think it is becoming harder explaining my reasons for why I don't believe nor adhere to any religious beliefs. And to me that is slightly unjust, as I have to listen to people go on about there religions, why don't I get to go on about my lack of?.....

I don't know if I need encouragement, because I know myself, and I know my beliefs. I also don't like encouragement for religions. I think people should do what they feel is right, regardless of what that choice is (one reason I don't particularly like Christianity, but I won't dwell on that :D). I also tend to deal with things myself, so I don't know if I would come here for that....but that's just me.

Anyway, what I am trying to say...in a very roundabout way...after a very long day...Is that it will be interesting to see other Atheists opinions around here, because, I actually think I am the only one I know!...

[ComicBookWorm]

Here I go... I don't know how we are going to manage posting in this thread without getting banned. The last time I posted in a thread with atheist in the title, I got two warning points for describing who I thought wrote the bible. And restraining my sarcasm as best I can (I know that doesn't seem possible), should we be congratulating ourselves on our enlightened beliefs or discussing how to spread our heathen ways to the world? Oops, I didn't restrain myself that well.

[lanifiel]

:lol: you got warning points? Epp... Oh well I ok'd this thread, thought it was quite good myself :D

[Dementor Dave]

:lol: you got warning points? Epp... Oh well I ok'd this thread, thought it was quite good myself :D


And I thank you very much, kind sir.

[ComicBookWorm]

:lol: you got warning points? Epp... Oh well I ok'd this thread, thought it was quite good myself :D
Thanks for OK'ing it.

[Wep]

should we be congratulating ourselves on our enlightened beliefs or discussing how to spread our heathen ways to the world? Oops, I didn't restrain myself that well.

:lol:

I think lack of sleep is skewing my judgement on things at the moment, on what to take seriously, and what to laugh at.... :D

[ComicBookWorm]

I think all atheists come to their beliefs, or lack there of, by different paths. I know that just in the last week or so, I've had to post on the "God" thread that there is no atheist leadership or organization because others assumed there was.

The most fun I have is when someone automatically assumes that I'm depraved because I'm an atheist. Well maybe I am depraved, but my lack of religion isn't the cause. I'm a free spirt: I was that way long before I gave up any pretense in the belief of a creator.

I think that atheists can have a stronger moral center because they perfrom self-examination, and their ethical mores come from conscious choice instead of rote behavior or fear of retribution.

[Wep]

I think that atheists can have a stronger moral center because they perfrom self-examination and their ethical mores come from conscious choice instead of rote behavior or fear of retribution.

I agree with that completely, and is one of my main reasons for my choice. I was skeptical about religion when I was in yr 4 at school (so 8 years old) and I refused to go any further with my religion when I turned 11. Religion and I never sat well with each other....still don't. I admit to not being knowledgeable about many religions, so I personally can't put my reasoning down to that....but it is something I will change, but my beliefs I don't think will ever waver

[Dementor Dave]

I came to my decision of atheism very carefully. I was born a into a Methodist family in the Deep South, highly religious folk. I was brought up in the church. I was a gifted child, and by age 14 had read the bible, prayer books, and Koran. By age fifteen I had privately denounced religion. It was a slow path, but I got there.

[Morgoth]

Nice thread :tu:

[Wep]

You know Dave, i think that is one of the best ways to get there. And probably one of the toughest. I am not from a religious family, so it isn't that hard a choice for me. I think if anything my Dad is proud of me.

[Dementor Dave]

Nice thread :tu:


Why thank you, boss. :D

You know Dave, i think that is one of the best ways to get there. And probably one of the toughest. I am not from a religious family, so it isn't that hard a choice for me. I think if anything my Dad is proud of me.

Lucky you. Though its very self-involved, nonetheless. None of the atheists I know just woke up and said, "there is no god today"

[Wep]

:lol: No I don't believe so....I think my critical nature guided me on coming to that finding....I actually don't know how I came about that choice, cause I don't know if I ever believed in the first place.

[ComicBookWorm]

I been in computer maintenance hell all week (see, there is a hell). So I can only pop in once in awhile. But this is a great thread.

I was raised loosely Jewish. We celebrated the big holidays, but never kept kosher or attended Temple even on the holidays. My parents came from a strict Orthodox background, so it's interesting that they weren't more traditional. They sort of believed in a universal spirit, but not in god as a being. I was agnostic from age 10 on.

Some years later, my teenage daughter said she wasn't agnostic and that she knew she was an atheist. I thought about for a second, and said I was too. There was no doubt, so I let go of my fig leaf of agnosticism.

I'm rabidly into science so I think I know where the universe and life came from. There is no need for outside intervention. I was only an agnostic because there is such societal pressures to believe. And if you don't believe others automatically assume you are a satanist.

Just recently, I had to reassure my dim housekeeper that a plaster gargoyle I owned didn't mean I worshipped satan.

[Wep]

:lol:

I don't think I was really agnostic....And I haven't had to prove my beliefs really. I guess that is because we are from different societies. Though it is going to get harder

[ComicBookWorm]

:lol:

I think lack of sleep is skewing my judgement on things at the moment, on what to take seriously, and what to laugh at.... :DI assure you that most people never know when to take me seriously. I am seriously facetious.

[Wep]

And I am seriously blonde at times :D

[ComicBookWorm]

Many people automatically assume that organized religion and belief in God are needed for moral behavior. But people really derive their ethical foundation from their society. Cultural and societal expectations dictate mores. Religion is just a way to formalize those beliefs.

[Wep]

I agree. I am not religious, but I have morals. And I think they are better than some of those that come under religion.

[ComicBookWorm]

Instead of making knee-jerk choices based on what I have been told I should believe or how I should behave, I make a self-examination of the issues and the course of appropriate behavior. I think about it and make a values judgment. And because I don't have religion as a fallback, I am ultimately responsible for my decisions.

[Wep]

And thats what I like about it. I can't deal with people telling me what to believe, and I find it too harmful on my belief of free thought.

It angers me when people do something wrong and then fall back on their religion to protect them, and making themselves less responsible for their actions

[remusjlupin1980]

I wouldn't want to start a major quarrel here but I have to make my voice heard (I was an atheist for a couple of months during my college years, now I consider myself a semi-lapsed Catholic).

One of my problems with at least a few of you atheists is your somewhat condescending and contemptuous attitudes towards religion, particularly Christianity (make that ESPECIALLY Christianity). Just so you know, I have deep respect for all beliefs and all religions including atheism. I mean, who am I to judge you and tell you how you live your life and what you believe in? If you're happy with yourself and you're good to others, that's all that matters.

I know at least some of your feelings of anger towards religion is justified. All I can say is that I hope you don't put yourselves into a higher pedestal and think of yourselves intellectually superior to all people who believe in a God or gods since when it comes to spiritual/religious beliefs no one is really 100% right or 100% wrong.

One last question before I end this post: Let's just say when you die and you find out that there really IS a God and that you are going to Hell for not believing in Him, would you accept your fate?

(If you say yes, this will be your secret weapon to any person who would want to convert you to their religion. They have no other way to go to try to convince you to convert if you say that if there really is a God, you'll accept whatever He does to you for denying His existence.)

[ComicBookWorm]

I wouldn't want to start a major quarrel here but I have to make my voice heard (I was an atheist for a couple of months during my college years, now I consider myself a semi-lapsed Catholic).

One of my problems with at least a few of you atheists is your somewhat condescending and contemptuous attitudes towards religion, particularly Christianity (make that ESPECIALLY Christianity). Just so you know, I have deep respect for all beliefs and all religions including atheism. I mean, who am I to judge you and tell you how you live your life and what you believe in? If you're happy with yourself and you're good to others, that's all that matters.

I know at least some of your feelings of anger towards religion is justified. All I can say is that I hope you don't put yourselves into a higher pedestal and think of yourselves intellectually superior to all people who believe in a God or gods since when it comes to spiritual/religious beliefs no one is really 100% right or 100% wrong.

One last question before I end this post: Let's just say when you die and you find out that there really IS a God and that you are going to Hell for not believing in Him, would you accept your fate?

(If you say yes, this will be your secret weapon to any person who would want to convert you to their religion. They have no other way to go to try to convince you to convert if you say that if there really is a God, you'll accept whatever He does to you for denying His existence.)This is the Spirit Division, this is not a debate thread. It is set up for atheists to have a discussion with atheists. A more polite posting than yours by Benzo, no less, was criticized in the similar "Christians" thread since debate doesn't belong here. We're not debating here. Your questions are rude, insulting, and off-topic. But they do show the attitude that atheists often receive. Boy talk about condescending and contemptuous attitudes.

[Wep]

Thanks ComicBookWorm, I didn't want to debate this in here, thats why I didn't go to the debating threads....

I know at least some of your feelings of anger towards religion is justified. All I can say is that I hope you don't put yourselves into a higher pedestal and think of yourselves intellectually superior to all people who believe in a God or gods since when it comes to spiritual/religious beliefs no one is really 100% right or 100% wrong.

Cause the shoe is never on the other foot.....

I don't think I have ever been questioned so much about my religious beliefs than when I came on here...admittedly I walked into the Spirit division..but :p

[remusjlupin1980]

This is the spirt division, this is not a debate thread. It is set up for atheists to have a discussion with atheists. A more polite posting than yours by Benzo, no less, was criticized in the similar "Christians" thread since debate doesn't belong here. We're not debating here. Your questions are both rude, insulting, and off-topic. But they do show the attitude that atheists often receive. Boy talk about condescending and contemptuous attitudes.

I never meant it to be insulting or condescending at all. I wasn't aware about the rules about "this is not supposed to be a debate thread", etc. I apologize.

[Dementor Dave]

Apology accepted. I'm sure if you would like to debate atheism, someone will be happy to argue the atheist case in the "Does God Exist" thread. :)

This thread will not become bickering. I created it with the intent of helping fellow atheists. Not defending ourselves.

[Stellamedusa]

Great idea, let's encourage each other. I laughed out loud when I saw the title of this thread :tu:

[ComicBookWorm]

I thought it was hilarious too. We do need to encourage each other. I'm really glad he thought of it.

I have no problem proclaiming my atheism, but it is seldom received well.

[grrliz]

:tu: for a great thread!

Not believing in god wasn't really something that I gradually came to, I think it was just something I gradually realised and put a name to. I was raised Roman Catholic, but even as a small child I never really got the whole "god" thing. I never felt a strong belief, and really only attended church and things like that because of my parents. It's funny, because today is Christmas Eve and I'll be going to midnight mass with my parents and it just makes me feel so darn heretical! :D

It's funny that a lot of deeply religious people look at atheism/agnosticism (I'm not sure where I fall, really) as if it is a conscious choice, as if suddenly I woke up and "Oh my, I don't believe in God today!" Because it was never like that for me. I have never "felt" god in any way, shape or form.

[Aoweil]

I was born into a non-religion family, so the path wasn't very long for me :lol: I found a lot of what my parents thought made sense to me while religion didn't. I'm mostly atheist with just a little bit of agnostic tossed in there, I guess would be the best way to describe my beliefs.

It was kind of difficult when I started school and the other's kids would ask me if I believed in God. I said no, and they would get mad at me and ask why. One time, one of my teachers instead of breaking up the squabble and telling everyone that it's ok for everyone to have different beliefs said to me "You know you really should believe in God, Ashley".

I might get flamed for what I'm about to say since the religious members are probably watching this thread like a hawk :lol:
I believe that a lot of what religion is is a security blanket for people a lot of people. Human beings like to have answers (hence our explorative and curious nature), and religion offers that.

Why did a family of four die is a car crash? It was the will of God...
Why are we here? God created the earth in seven days...
Is there really life on other planets? No, God created only the Earth..

I find religion to be a hinderence to being a truly free and independent person because you are told what to believe rather than coming to a lot of your own conclusions about things.

[Sherlock Holmes]

I might get flamed for what I'm about to say since the religious members are probably watching this thread like a hawk :lol:
I believe that a lot of what religion is is a security blanket for people a lot of people. Human beings like to have answers (hence our explorative and curious nature), and religion offers that.

As long as you aren't insulting you shouldn't get flamed. The whole idea of this forum is a place for religous discussion without the arguing. I know there was a bit of trouble in this thread earlier, but that seems to have been dealt with.

Atheists and Christians come from very different perspectives. We'll understand ourselves better, I think, if both of us are willing to listen to the other, even if no one changes their minds in the end.

[Morgoth]

I was eight years old when the teacher at my school sent me out of the classroom for saying I didn't believe in God. I just realised after watching The Omen that I am very much like Damien. I used to kick & scream when being taken to Church... So I've come to the conclucion... I am the devil or at least his acolyte... Heck, I think Morgoth is a great character.

So yeah, sorry about that, just happened I think. I don't remember when it happened, I suppose one thing leads to another, get up, get dressed, attend ritual sacrifice of a virgin, drink their blood, play Sega Megadrive for a bit... No wonder the kids in school called me names... I burned them, btw. You know, with that evil power I have...

So how do you guys spend religious holidays?

[grrliz]

So how do you guys spend religious holidays?In a thoroughly secular manner. :)

What I mean is that for me, Christmas is about getting together with my family, eating good food, etc. Sure, I've taken the Christ out of Christmas, but if Christmas as a celebration began as a Christianized version of a pagan holiday, I don't really see the harm in it. There are worse things I could be doing to the Holiday. :shrug:

[Aoweil]

In a thoroughly secular manner. :)

What I mean is that for me, Christmas is about getting together with my family, eating good food, etc. Sure, I've taken the Christ out of Christmas, but if Christmas as a celebration began as a Christianized version of a pagan holiday, I don't really see the harm in it. There are worse things I could be doing to the Holiday. :shrug:

:agree: I spend Christmas the same way.
And my parents also do egg hunts on Easter. :)

[ComicBookWorm]

I feel very alienated during December. I'm was raised Jewish so xmas has never been my holiday, and now that I don't practice Judaism, I don't have Chanuakah to latch onto either. I resented being forced to sing Christian songs (carols) when I was in school, and a couple of hours in a mall in December is enough to turn me into an axe murderer. Fortunately for the rest of the populace I can buy most things online now. But I still exchange gifts some time in December since everyone else is getting presents and I want some too.

We have our own anti-xmas traditions though. My daughter and I always catch a blockbuster movie that has long waiting lines since no one goes there on xmas day. Then we go out and eat Jewish deli food as our own special antidote to all the season "cheer". One year the movie Tootsie was playing and the experience was surreal since the audience was populated by a sea of Jewish-looking faces.

This next part requires a bit of setup. The Jewish holiday of Passover (always at Easter since the last supper was a Passover dinner) celebrates when the menace of the angel of death passed over the Israelites in Egypt. The end of xmas is now my passover since the menace of xmas has finally passed...over.

[lanifiel]

At Christmas Movie going, thats why I do as well. I buy a boat-load of M&M's and hit up the movies... All good. Today I rented out a small art film cinema with a mate and we hooked up a DVD player and watched anime all day in there... Now that was fun... ^_^

[Morgoth]

At Christmas Movie going, thats why I do as well. I buy a boat-load of M&M's and hit up the movies... All good. Today I rented out a small art film cinema with a mate and we hooked up a DVD player and watched anime all day in there... Now that was fun... ^_^

That is totally the best thing ever! :cool:

[lanifiel]

Read or Die anime man, that thing rocks :D

[Byrum]

I spend most of my holidays hiding from my parents. They get into the whole 'spirit of the season' thing which basically involves singing Christmas Carols whenever they have one of their multitudes of CD's or hear one on the radio (especially the ones that relate to Jesus, which is ironic as they refuse to beleive he wasn't ACTUALLY born on Christmas day in a stable but probably in some cave in the middle of summer, and that just because it is probable he existed doesn't mean he was right ;)).

For me Christmas is about getting together with people and having a good time, but I can't seem to do that without religion getting involved. It's not that I hate religion I respect other's beliefs, its just that if I went around my families and friends house waving the 'atheism flag' and and saying how great it was to be an atheist on all the non-religious holidays during the year, people would get annoyed. It gets especially tiring as the corporate people cashing in on Christmas seem to bring it closer into November every year (some places start selling Chrismassy stuff in September, whats up with that?). So it's not just Christmas Day that I need a bit of an 'escape' from, it's an entire season, as they say, in itself.

So after that overbearing explanation of my Christmas dilema, does anyone else find they're friends and family religious mood tiring after a while with not vent for frustration? WEll except for this thread, which has helped me a lot. Rock on! :)

[ComicBookWorm]

I'm laughing my hind quarters off right now. The movie "Going my Way" is on Turner Classic Movies. That was a sentimental old movie with Bing Crosby about an unconventional priest. Disclaimer: we're not watching, we were watching the movie that was on before it. Anyway, in the movie some boys are playing baseball and the ball breaks a window. Crosby tries to keep the window's owner from being unhappy by saying that they're from the local church. The window's owner scowls at at them and says I don't care where you're from, I'm an atheist. So there's this horrible nasty man, and he's what the world thinks of atheists.

[Byrum]

I think people think that athiests are horrible because most people get the impression that we are self righteous. Since we don't beleive in their form of God, or any God, we must think that everything WE do is right because there is no other power involved, and that leads them to beleive that atheists are downright arrogant and horrible people who don't care or respect other people's opinions. This is the impression i get from the religious people I've met anyway. Come to think of it that is kind of hyppocrytical because the church believes that they have the right theory on the meaning of life yet if we were to openly persecute them there would be 'scandal' for want of a better word.

[ComicBookWorm]

I think people think that athiests are horrible because most people get the impression that we are self righteous. Since we don't beleive in their form of God, or any God, we must think that everything WE do is right because there is no other power involved, and that leads them to beleive that atheists are downright arrogant and horrible people who don't care or respect other people's opinions. This is the impression i get from the religious people I've met anyway. Come to think of it that is kind of hyppocrytical because the church believes that they have the right theory on the meaning of life yet if we were to openly persecute them there would be 'scandal' for want of a better word.
The only self-righteousness I've ever run into wasn't from atheists, I can assure you.

[Wep]

So how do you guys spend religious holidays?

Christmas and Easter I spend hanging out with friends and family. I do get dragged to mass on Xmas Eve (the only time mum ever goes) but I stand outside and look around at people, or laugh at my father for being a fool. I hate going to mass, but it makes my mother happy, and it's only one hour every year. Plus it is always packed so we never get inside, and never hear anything anyway, so it's fine by me. My boyfriend told me that if I am an Athiest I shouldn't be celebrating a religious holiday, but I think that is ****. I don't celebrate the religious aspects, never have.

As for the opinions I get off others for being Athiest. My sister said to me the other day, I am just trying to be cool denouncing religion (I think she is more agnostic than religious though, so she was probably just stirring me up). Let's just say we got into a huge arguement about that one. I don't do it to be cool, I do it because I don't believe it. And I hate the fact that people think the reason I made my choice is because I want to be cool....I don't need that choice to be cool, I am naturally cool ;)

[Byrum]

The only self-righteousness I've ever run into wasn't from atheists, I can assure you.
Exactly my point, most religous people can't see past their religion, and therefore everything else to them is wrong. They ignore the fact that many parts of the Bible were wrong, like a girl at my school who doesn't beleive in evolution but prefers the Genesis version (7 days, humans and animals just 'appeared' on earth along with everything else). I mean there's nothing wrong with that (if it is a little twisted and outdate), it's just that when you try to reason with people like that you might as well be the devil's advocate.

[Ana-Magus]

Why am I an Athiest?
I am an Athiest because I believe organized religion was created to control people. Good behavior is rewarded (heaven) while bad behavior is punished (hell).

I'm a good person because I want to be, not because a book tells me to be.

As for the hypothetical question - What if god exists and send me to hell for being an Athiest, would I accept my fate?

Absolutely! My fellow Athiest friends and I have a "belief" of our own! IF there is a hell and IF we are going, proclaimed Athiests have secured management positions there. Sure, we will suffer, but we can make others suffer more. :evil:

So, in an effort to be prepared, we printed up our First Class Tickets to Hell. We carry them in our wallets at all times and we are ready... "just in case."

Call me insensative for doing something like that, but I just don't take life that seriously. :D

[ComicBookWorm]

I don't worry about going to hell since it doesn't exist. I don't worry about going to Middle Earth or Hogwarts either. Although the those two places would be a lot more interesting than hell. But all of them are mythical places.

My daughter likes to joke about hell being the interesting place and heaven being the boring one.

Before we had organized government and legal structures, religion was the method of populace control. Since they didn't have civil law suits and felony jail terms as deterents, they needed some method of formal control. Religion provided codification of approved behavior and strictures on transgressions. Fear of God's rath keep people in line.

[Byrum]

So is that why there is a declinging church attendance, because people aren't afraid anymore? The only reason I don't want to go is because I found it boring ;). If people make things boring they can't have passion for it, and if they don't have passion for it how can they expect me to? That's why I'm an atheist really, a poor victim of clergy non-caringness (I think the word is chalance or something but I don't know how to spell it)

[Holly is Short]

Heh...yeah...but you can be "religious" without being religious...like doing good stuff...and I agree with you Byrum. Being good to your fellow man...you don't actually have to be religious to be a good person.

[Ana-Magus]

So is that why there is a declinging church attendance, because people aren't afraid anymore? The only reason I don't want to go is because I found it boring ;). If people make things boring they can't have passion for it, and if they don't have passion for it how can they expect me to? That's why I'm an atheist really, a poor victim of clergy non-caringness (I think the word is chalance or something but I don't know how to spell it)

Agreed.

My mother was raised to go to church every Sunday, so I can remember going as a child. Each service was over an hour long and no emotion was evoked (other than guilt). zzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

I grew up in a small upper middle class community with one HUGE Catholic church. The majority of the community was catholic, so if you didn't go to church, everyone knew about it and you could hear the chatter from a mile away.

Given the fact that church in our town was boring and was the center of community gossip, my mother stopped going. She switched churches and went to one in another town nearby. At that time, she asked me what I wanted to do. I told her I had no desire to go and she didn't fight it. I recently thanked her for letting me make the choice.

An amusing tidbit: As a teenager, I went back to that church with my boyfriend (now husband) once for a youth event. We were standing around holding hands when the music director put his arms around us and said "leave room for the holy spirit!" :rolleyes: That same guy (also the prinicpal at a town public school) was recently arrested for drug possession. He is allegedly part of a drug ring that sells party drugs at night clubs.... I wonder what the holy spirit thinks of him now?

Oh look! (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20041222/1065593.asp)

[grrliz]

I don't worry about going to hell since it doesn't exist. I don't worry about going to Middle Earth or Hogwarts either. Although the those two places would be a lot more interesting than hell. But all of them are mythical places.If Hogwarts is the afterlife, sign me up!!

An amusing tidbit: As a teenager, I went back to that church with my boyfriend (now husband) once for a youth event. We were standing around holding hands when the music director put his arms around us and said "leave room for the holy spirit!" :rolleyes: I love that! At school dances in (Catholic) elementary school, teachers would always go around doing that if they felt the students were getting too close to each other while dancing!!

Someone brought up dwindling church attendance earlier and I couldn't help but notice it either. There are 10,000 people listed as being members of our family's parrish and only 2500 attend church weekly. Most are "Christmas and Easter" church go-ers, but even then only 4500 attend Christmas mass. (The priest was giving us these stats during his sermon, I can't remember why because I stopped listening. :rolleyes: ) And from what I remember of previous Christmases, there were definitely less people there this year as well. Usually midnight mass is absolutely packed with people standing in the aisles, lining the back of the church, and ushers trying to madly cram people into the pews. But not this year. This year there was lots of room, which didn't stop my grade seven teacher and her son who is my second-worst enemy from sitting directly behind us :grumble: :p.

[Dementor Dave]

So how do you guys spend religious holidays?

This requires setup:

I live in the deep south, where many, many things are not received well. For this reson I am not nearly as open in realtime about my feelings as I am on the internet. o far as I am concerned, I am an atheist, and that is the least of my deviances. So far as my parents are concerned, I am a Christian, if only barely, and a model young man with morals. This is important to me living, as the south would not take to me well, and I cannot leave. Yet. So, now you know part of the reason I started this thread.

On to the question. I spend the holidays at church, a UMC, as I am obligated to be there. At age 19 I am on the board of trustees. Its a very, very long story. I endure the hell fire and brimstone, and then shake hands, until I can disappear back to my house (still opressive, but less "you're going to hell" speech). I hate the holidays. I'm only able to sneak away from family business occaisially, and then seldom get to the computer. Eh, oh well.

Glad other people like the thread, hopefully I'll return to my own place again shortly.

At Christmas Movie going, thats why I do as well. I buy a boat-load of M&M's and hit up the movies... All good. Today I rented out a small art film cinema with a mate and we hooked up a DVD player and watched anime all day in there... Now that was fun... ^_^


You are so lucky.

[Byrum]

Heh...yeah...but you can be "religious" without being religious...like doing good stuff...and I agree with you Byrum. Being good to your fellow man...you don't actually have to be religious to be a good person.
I think more and more people are getting that now. Which kind of puts the Church on a double edge sword. If they encourage people to just be nice to other people, the congregation will say 'Ok, I can do that, so what am I doing here when all I have to do is be nice to people'. But if they go the other way and the clergy preach that you need to know your Bible facts and coming to mass is important (because it is the only money they get) and you will go to hell if you don't, people start walking out anyway because it's the same old stuff they've been drilled for all their lives and they don't necessarily beleive it.

An amusing tidbit: As a teenager, I went back to that church with my boyfriend (now husband) once for a youth event. We were standing around holding hands when the music director put his arms around us and said "leave room for the holy spirit!" :rolleyes: That same guy (also the prinicpal at a town public school) was recently arrested for drug possession. He is allegedly part of a drug ring that sells party drugs at night clubs.... I wonder what the holy spirit thinks of him now?

Oh look! (http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20041222/1065593.asp)
The news article made me laugh because it LOOKED as if the parishiners were all like 'yeah we support you you haven't actually been DEALING the stuff your still on the payroll bla bla bla' but you get this mental image that as soon as the camera's and reporters are gone they have kicked this guy to the curb and barely anyone has turned up for mass the next day and the parishners have a major PR problem.

Another reason for people following their own religion, the Church preaches a universal doctrine that every Catholic Church anywhere must comply with but then you get all these stories about the child abuse and the drug smuggling and the homosexuality (not that there's anything wrong with it but the Church is against it), which contradict the Churches universal story and makes people see that 'hey they were wrong about that maybe they're wrong about other things to'. I think the Church is coming around from the 'holier than thou' appearance and finally found the shoe on the other foot.

[Aurora Evans]

I think it's more important to create your own philiosophy than to prescribe to a religion.
I was raised in a Roman Catholic household, but as I got older and thought about it, the whole idea of religion made less and less sense to me.
After reading a lot of the posts in this thread I count myself lucky that I have really accepting family and friends. Most of my friends are lapsed Christians or Atheists, but my best friend is quite a devout Christian, however, she has never questioned my Atheism and I have never questioned her Christianity.
The only negativity I've really encountered was from these kids in my Senior Class at High School. They were Christian and in my Study of Society class; I would often write presentations that were pro-Abortion and pro-Homosexual and the length of my presentation avoiding their dirty looks - for their part they avoided me, period.

[Byrum]

Yeah I think in Australia Christians are not as 'heavy handed' than in other countries when it comes to promoting their religion. I go to a catholic school and about 3 students actually practice it properly ;). I guess where your from and your upbringing have a lot to do with your beleifs.

[KryptonKitty]

I absolutely love this thread! It's great to find out there are more people in the same situation as me (not in a selfish way, of course :)).

I'm an atheist as far as I can remember, I think I just didn't know a word for it or that there were people that thought like me so it was even more frustrating. I come from a religious family (not overly religious really, my grandmas are both very religious women and it sort of tones down a little from generation to generation) and never understood why people had to believe in a god or they would go to hell and the whole concept of sin sounded really dodgy. When I was about 12 I had already decided I didn't believe in God and didn't want to go to church every Sunday since I saw no point in it but I kept my mouth shut and just went since I would always end up grounded everytime I told my mom I didn't want to go. Around the age of 14 I had had enough of everyone telling me how it was important to go to church and believe in God (I studied at a Catholic school until the age of 15) and I told my friends I didn't believe in it and they were really nice about it. They didn't question my decision or anything, we just started to avoid conversations about religion.

With my mom it is a lot more complicate than that. I told her I didn't believe in Jesus or anything regarding Christianity (I had to start somewhere, if I had told here I didn't believe in anything at all she would have a fit) and for the moment she was ok with it. But that didn't stop her from dragging me to church every Sunday, I have a feeling she thought "maybe if I keep her around this environment long enough she'll come around and start believing in it" or something like that. After I saw telling her didn't work I started to take more subtle action. I would go to church and just be there - when everyone else stood up I would too and when everyone sat down I would mimic it, but only that. I wouldn't pray, I wouldn't sing and I wouldn't follow the "procedures" by the book. I would just show respect by standing up and kneeling when it was required, for the rest of the mass I would just be there. That worked a little better with her because she realized I really meant what I was saying and she decided to leave me alone regarding religion. Now I don't usually have to go to church unless it is a special occasion (she made me go for Christmas, but I suspect it was because we were at my grandma's house and she would not like it if I didn't go). But I'm still not sure if it has completely sank in for her that I'm atheist (I suspect she's made some sort of promess to God to make me go to church...), but when it does I hope she's ok with it since it's my decision and she really doesn't have anything to do with it.

And the funniest thing is that after that saga to make people understand why I don't believe in it and why I live life this way I'm still not comfortable telling most people about it. Like Dave (and I'm sure a lot of other people around here) I find it a lot easier to share this kind of thing online rather than in the "real world". The only real people who know how I feel are my closest friends and my mom, I doubt she has told anyone (she would probably consider it a failure on her part, not raising me correctly or something). For the rest of the world I'm just not a very practicing Catholic.

[Bunny]

Wow, I didn't realise I was so lucky.
My mum and dad are both religious and I was brought up going to Sunday school and Church. At the age of 12 I was confirmed.
As I grew older I made my decision that I didn't believe in God.
Like other people on this thread it didn't smack me in the face, it was just something that I knew.
I'm lucky because I have never come across this "you must be a bad person because you don't believe". My friends accept me for who I am and strangers, if they ask, I tell them the truth.
I met a wonderful lass at work, we got on really well. She is religious and she laughed at me when I told her that I wasn't because we had loads of time to discuss things like death, and what we need to do to about improving lives. We found out that we felt the same way about most things, except for the God thing. We accepted that we each had a belief and that didn't mean that we couldn't be friends.
Wish the world was more like this.
There have been people at the door trying to convince me that I'm going to hell, but I'm afraid I just laugh at them, then ask them to leave and close the door.
I agree that religion seems to take away your free will. Helping somebody because the Bible says so!
My moral stand comes from me.
I believe that we must do no harm, treat other people as we would like to be treated. It doesn't matter who or what they are.
The odd thing is that my mum is now worried as to where she is going when she dies, whereas I don't have that worry. I don't believe there is anything except the universe.
I live my life as I see fit and with no persecution from other people. Yep, I'm lucky.

[Northern Witch]

I love this thread. :)

I don't remember when I "decided" that I am an atheist, but I never really believed in God either. I grew up in a very religious area, and as a younger kid I never thought about religion, even though we recieved a lot of religious teaching in school. I guess it was such a natural part of everyday life that I didn't even consider it.
But when I turned ten or eleven I started thinking about it, and soon realized that I didn't believe in God -simple as that. But I never told anyone, cause some of the religious kids in my class already looked critically at me because my parents weren't "christian enough". (My mom believes in God, but she almost never goes to chruch becuase she finds the church service boring, and my dad never belonged to any church at all).
I remember one time in school, when I was about 12 years old. Our class was really noisy during a religion class, and my teacher got so angry that he opened the door and shouted: "Those who don't believe in the Lord, get out of my classroom now!" That really scared me at that time, cause I didn't believe in God, but I was too afraid to say anything. If something like that happened today, I would get up and leave, or I'd tell the teacher exactly what I think about his teaching methods.

Anyways, I am babtised and at fifteen confirmed into the evangelical lutheran church (not sure about the name in english), but a couple of years ago I did what I wanted to do for a long time -I stepped out of the church for good. I recieved a lot of negative response from some people, friends and family telling me that I will regret my decision and so on. But I never have and it feels right to me.

Well, sorry for the long rambling, it just feels great to read this thread and find other people who's also atheists. (sorry for the misspellings and grammatical errors too, english is not my native language).

[Byrum]

I've never actually been openly (or even underhandedly) oppressed for atheism (in fact you are usually made fun of BECAUSE you attend Church and read the Bible). I didn't need tell anyone. At my school it is assumed that you are an atheist until you actually deny it. Noone takes religion seriously, barely anyone attends chruch regularly and the same amount of people think going to school masses and liturgies is a drag.

I guess I never had an official 'coming out' as an athiest because in Australia, the society and especially at school, religion just isn't that important. It sounds weird when we hear George Bush on TV and he talks about God bless America and fight for your God and the Axis of Evil and everything, because no public figures in Aus talk like that, it may be our multiculturalism and religious diverstiy but I think it comes down to the laid back approach to religion.

[ComicBookWorm]

I've never had a problem telling people I'm an atheist, but it is invariably followed by some effot to make me see the light, or some horror at my undoubtedly wanton ways. After which I have to explain that I have a strong moral center and know right from wrong.

[Stellamedusa]

As for ways to celebrate christmas if you're an athiest - last year someone at one of our tv stations decided it would be a good idea to show Monty Python's the meaning of life on christmas night. So after we'd stuffed ourselves full of christmas dinner we got to watch that guy explode:)

I actually like carols at christmas, they remind me of being a little kid. Fortunately all of my family are athiests and most are Harry Potter fans, so this christmas we didn't go to church, but watched the PoA instead.

[ComicBookWorm]

As for ways to celebrate christmas if you're an athiest - last year someone at one of our tv stations decided it would be a good idea to show Monty Python's the meaning of life on christmas night. So after we'd stuffed ourselves full of christmas dinner we got to watch that guy explode:)

I actually like carols at christmas, they remind me of being a little kid. Fortunately all of my family are athiests and most are Harry Potter fans, so this christmas we didn't go to church, but watched the PoA instead.
I think most atheists who are ex-christians don't have a problem with carols. Being Jewish, carols were always problematic for me. And December is one ending seriers of carols and xmas music in all stores. It's an assault upon my ears.

[Wep]

I don't have a problem with Carols (except for the fact they play them at work on repeat two months before Christmas). But I did actually notice that my favourite Carols were non religious ones. Though I don't know if that means alot.

As for the biggest problem I have encountered by saying I am not religious, it is that people treat me warily. Like I am going to rip to shreds everything that they believe in. I wouldn't do that, unless they seriously push me there. I am pretty open about my beliefs, with my friends and family especially. It is mostly my boyfriends parents I am less open with. I say I am baptised Catholic and that is it, I don't go into it any further.

One thing I noticed with my friends (only one or two are overly religious) is that they get mad at me because I will suppot other religions right to doing what their religions state (i.e. the wearing of headscarves by followers of islam has been an issue here), but I apparently speak condescendingly about Christian religions. There may be some truth in that, I am not too sure. But I do try and keep a very open mind. I don't agree with any religions, but I do see that every person has a right to their own decisions as to what they choose. Does that make sense?

[KryptonKitty]

I don't have a problem with religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter because aside from the mandatory mass there isn't too much of meaning put into it where I live if you don't believe in it. We (family) get together, have dinner and catch up since most of time we don't really spend a lot of time together because of distance issues. We talk a lot about what's new and just have fun, so it isn't too bad for me here really. I just sort of ignore the religious meaning of it and enjoy the opportunity of spending time with the people I love.

As for telling people you're an atheist it might be easier for you CBW and older people (older than me at least, I'm 16) to do it since people will assume you have already had enough time to ponder on your beliefs so it is easier for them to accept it too. When I or someone my age decides to tell someone else we're atheists we get that patronizing look and talk about how we are too young to make a decision that important and we shouldn't be thinking too much about this now since when we get older we'll understand things better and there will be some sort of "revelation" which will show us that religion is the only way. That's what I hate the most and is one of the main reasons why I don't tell too many people about my beliefs - you can only hear the same speech so many times before starting to get annoyed and being rude to people who don't really deserve it.

[teo]

I about fell off my chair when I saw this thread...very nice.

Anyway...my name is teo and I'm an Atheist.

I grew up in a family that did not participate in any organized religion whatsoever, so I was able to make up my mind, so to speak, without any outside influences. Like others here, I did not come to the decision to be an Atheist right away...I actually thought about it quite a bit, and the thing that always ruined the argument for the existence of a God for me was the question of who created God, and who created "God #2", who in turn created "God #1", and so on. Eventually, there either has to be a whole football team of Gods running around "up there" or something had to evolve (by the way, I hear Cumulonimbus United is leading the God Premier League this year)... I chose to believe that it is us who evolved.

The religious holidays must be tough for those of you in a religious family. Anyway, the only problem I have with being an Atheist is the religious people who assume that just because I am an Atheist, I have absolutely no moral values whatsoever, and go around all day kicking puppies, stealing stop signs, and taking any and all illegal drugs I can get my hands on. I've learned to just ignore those people though, or better yet, just laugh at them.Fortunately, I've found that these people are the exception rather than the rule, as I have quite a few very religious friends and wouldn't want to trade them for anything.

Again, great thread idea!

[Aurora Evans]

I've never actually been openly (or even underhandedly) oppressed for atheism ... I didn't need tell anyone. At my school it is assumed that you are an atheist until you actually deny it. No one takes religion seriously, barely anyone attends chruch regularly ...

I guess I never had an official 'coming out' as an athiest because in Australia, the society and especially at school, religion just isn't that important. It sounds weird when we hear George Bush on TV and he talks about God bless America and fight for your God and the Axis of Evil and everything, because no public figures in Australia talk like that, it may be our multiculturalism and religious diverstiy but I think it comes down to the laid back approach to religion.

That's always been my experience; apart from the people I mentioned in my earlier post (and I didn't even realise they were Christian for a few years!).
The politians in Australia certainly don't talk like George Bush, but it's obvious that they are quite Christian in their beliefs. The thing that really annoys me is the influence religious figures like Cardinal George Pell have on our Government Officials. I remember in the lead up to the Australian Federal Election, reading that our Minister for Education was consulting Cardinal Pell on Government Education Policy! Also, a few weeks ago, Cardinal Pell was being interviewed on the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Commission), and was given a scenario: An African man - married and a father of three - is unfaithful to his wife and contracts AIDS as a result of that infidelity. Should his wife be permitted to use condoms to protect herself? Cardinal Pell's answer was no, she should not. He then went on to call her sacrifice 'heroic'. This is man who has a great deal of influence within our media, and on our politians. So, while our Political figures are not as obvious in their beliefs as George Bush, I question how different we really are.

[Wep]

So, while our Political figures are not as obvious in their beliefs as George Bush, I question how different we really are.

I agree. Also though, I think things are changing here. The number of Christians in Australia is increasing, I think that can be seen in many areas. And I have to say it scares me a tad. The fact that the family first party (right wing Christian party) went well in the election says enough to me. But I do think religion is not as big here as it is in America, thankfully, but for how long we'll have to wait and see.

I also believe that we are less likely to confront opposition to denouncing religion here than in other countries, particularly America.

[ComicBookWorm]

Ok, it's bad enough that the tsunami is supposed to have hidden benefits for those tens of thousands dead and millions who are suffering. But now the Holocaust had a silver lining too. I give up there is nothing rational to be discussed anymore on the God thread.

[Wep]

I just saw that CBW, and I agree. I just sauntered in there for the first time today, and I really don't think it is a good idea for me to go back....

Speaking of the tsunami, we are still waiting to hear about my boyfriends friends parents...and I could just imagine what he would do if a christian came up to him and said the possible death of his parents in such a tragedy will mean something in the long run....:sigh: and people wonder why I hate religion!

[ComicBookWorm]

I just saw that CBW, and I agree. I just sauntered in there for the first time today, and I really don't think it is a good idea for me to go back....

Speaking of the tsunami, we are still waiting to hear about my boyfriends friends parents...and I could just imagine what he would do if a christian came up to him and said the possible death of his parents in such a tragedy will mean something in the long run....:sigh: and people wonder why I hate religion!
I am sorry. Please let know when you hear something. I have a friend who is also out of touch with his family in India.

I periodically have to stop posting in the God thread since I verge on losing it.

[Stellamedusa]

Me too, I try not to get emotional on the threads but I was completely disgusted this afternoon.

That's terrible that you both know people in the tragedy, I hope they are found to be safe and well. A friend of ours was on holiday in Sri Lanka, but we've now heard that they're ok.

[Byrum]

I went and read some of the God thread stuff, and I think all they are trying to do is desperately backpeddle. They have made the decision to stick to the belief that there is a God and he does everything for the GOOD of mankind, then they are hit with all the things that he 'let happen' and suddenly there has to be a meaning for it, when the only lesson we learn is how to make the weapons bigger and the death count higher.

I agree with Aurora Evans and Wep about the increased religious influence in Australia, and it made me think that isn't the Governer General usually elected from the Church, like a Catholic or Anglican bishop. Here is a guy who has the power to disolve Parliament and he is more or less listening to the Vatican to make his decisions or the 'voice in his head'. That really doesn't make very much sense. They say in Western countries that Church and State exist as seperate entities, but sometimes it makes you wonder if they are as connected as they are in Middle Eastern countries, but their dealings are just more underhanded.

[Stellamedusa]

I went and read some of the God thread stuff, and I think all they are trying to do is desperately backpeddle. They have made the decision to stick to the belief that there is a God and he does everything for the GOOD of mankind, then they are hit with all the things that he 'let happen' and suddenly there has to be a meaning for it, when the only lesson we learn is how to make the weapons bigger and the death count higher.

I agree with Aurora Evans and Wep about the increased religious influence in Australia, and it made me think that isn't the Governer General usually elected from the Church, like a Catholic or Anglican bishop. Here is a guy who has the power to disolve Parliament and he is more or less listening to the Vatican to make his decisions or the 'voice in his head'. That really doesn't make very much sense. They say in Western countries that Church and State exist as seperate entities, but sometimes it makes you wonder if they are as connected as they are in Middle Eastern countries, but their dealings are just more underhanded.

It's very frustrating, trying to analyse religion with the God people, isn't it. Every time you come up against a contradiction, it's not a logical problem, it's just God. I don't mean everyone, actually I had a very interesting discussion in there recently about free will, but usually I just don't post because I know I'm going to feel like I'm banging my head against the wall.

I'm still undecided about whether religious influence has increased in Australia. It does seem to have I suppose in the last few years, what with the Family First party and all, but when I think of stories my parents have told me, about how much more fervently religion was followed when they were young, I tend to think of the increase in religion as being more of a sort of fad than a trend. For example, my mum tells me that when she was young, it was the stuff of gossip if an Anglican married a Catholic. And everyone went to Sunday school. People just aren't so uptight about it any more. I think that maybe suspicion of other religions has increased recently, but it doesn't seem to make the Christian people I know any more set in their beliefs than they were before:)

I don't think it makes Australia as a whole more religious just because one Christian church decided to create a political party for themselves. A lot of their support came from members of their church, and from people who always vote for minor parties just for the sake of it, and sometimes it seems that these sorts of voters are attracted to newness, and a nice, fresh, shiney Family First party was the flavour of the moment:). It is possible that I'm completely wrong, and I should be concerned, but I can't muster any just yet.

Btw, if anyone votes for a minor party because you really believe in their aims, my mocking was not aimed at you:)

How often is the GG selected from the church? I have no idea, I never took an interest in them at all until our last rather infamous GG. I'd be worried if we had a PM like that, but I don't really mind who the GG is. I'm glad JH doesn't go on about God too much, at least not as much as Mr Bush.

[Byrum]

Mmmm I guess a lot of the rise of the current religion 'fad' can be attributed to terrorism, either the 'I'd better go to Church or I'm gonna die' thought frame or the 'those poor people I guess the only way I can help ease their suffering is to pray more often' one. I agree that the religions used to be more strict and ferverently followed but because of heightened anxiety people, even politicians, turn to the one thing that has always been there, the Church. The problem is all they ever say is 'love one another' and 'try to live together in harmony' because they will, as you said, end up contradicting themselves or become in contradiction with other churches if the offer a solution or try to talk 'politics'. Look at the Family First party, they don't call themselves the Christian Party because that would be the Church interfering in politics, so the go under the guise of supporting the family in government. And aren't church and government supposed to be seperate? Imagine if Family First had one, would Australia then be declared a Christian State, like the Islamic states in the middle east? So basically I don't beleive there should be any mixing of church and government, because I beleive the Church is wrong and therefore the government asking for help from the church is not representing me fairly.

[LeeJordanfan]

:::tiptoes into thread::: Are athiest sympathizers ok in here too?

::looks around the cozy refuge you have::: I'll bring donuts :)

[Dementor Dave]

All are welcome. This is not a debate thread, merely a place to encourage one another. Atheism is not the most popular of choices.

[Atashi]

Count me in too, then. (*^.^*)/

[Dementor Dave]

Welcome, and peace be with you as you travel life's long road, however you choose to do so.

[LeeJordanfan]

I'm currently living in a small community (after living in a couple of big cities, it's quite the culture shock). Everyone it seems goes to church for worship. But this year a neighbor of mine started walking around with a button: "BAH HUMBUG. Don't wish me a Merry Xmas". In any case, she hasn't had any trouble with people wishing her a happy holiday that she doesn't celebrate. I'm seriously considering doing something similiar because the more I see the celebrators the less I'm convinced it's anything but a commercial enterprise.

[Stellamedusa]

Thanks for the donuts, LeeJordanFan:)

Byrum, I know I said I wasn't particularly concerned by the Family First party, but you bring up a good point about the name. It was very annoying that they advertised themselves as being a family-friendly party when they were really nothing more than the political wing of a church (I forget which one). Especially when a fair bit of their campaigning was conducted at such places as the front gates of primary schools and childcare centres. Sometimes you also find that independents are actually christian democrats or similar, but don't actually say so in their advertising. I don't think they should be allowed to mislead people like that.

[Byrum]

I don't have a problem with independants or democrats or any politican who HAPPENS to be christian, what annoys me more is what the Family First party did to deliberately cover up the fact that they were christian so that they could optimise the amount of votes they had. Is sacrificing there beleifs and being afraid to speak them in public what they is what they will do for votes, what else are they willing to do for power? In that case they don't deserve any, what would they do with the power given to them? I would have much prefered it if they HAD called themselves the Christian party, though I don't beleive the Church should be involved in Government, they would have been honest and standing up for your beleifs is a big thing in Christianity, look at what happened to Peter in the Bible when he denied Christ thrice, it was the ultimate sin. And here they are doing for power and votes. Great way to promote your faith guys :td:

[Dementor Dave]

I'd like to share with you all, a quote that helps me remember that there are facts out there, we merely have to look for them:

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored." -Huxley.

Wishing you all well. :D

[Wep]

I am sorry. Please let know when you hear something. I have a friend who is also out of touch with his family in India.

I periodically have to stop posting in the God thread since I verge on losing it.

Yeah, we found out on our way on holidays that they are ok, but I know a few other people that have people over there they are waiting to hear from.

I got told because I didn't believe in god, I couldn't send a prayer over to those that are suffering. I didn't like that much....obviously, and a few choice words were said in temper...Just because I don't believe in god, doesn't mean I can't send my thoughts over, or do what I can to help. And besides if you are religious you are praying for peoples safety to the "being" who supposedly caused the chaos...

[Dementor Dave]

Yeah, we found out on our way on holidays that they are ok, but I know a few other people that have people over there they are waiting to hear from.

I got told because I didn't believe in god, I couldn't send a prayer over to those that are suffering. I didn't like that much....obviously, and a few choice words were said in temper...Just because I don't believe in god, doesn't mean I can't send my thoughts over, or do what I can to help. And besides if you are religious you are praying for peoples safety to the "being" who supposedly caused the chaos...

Glad to hear they are well.

[Wep]

Kind of a conundrum isn't it. Does the prayer go something like this "Please God let aunt Mary be alive, even though there are 100,000 others that were killed by your tsunami".

That it is ComicBookWorm...but I am sure people are doing it...and conveniently missing out the "your" and replacing it with "the"...


Thanks Dave :)

[ComicBookWorm]

That it is ComicBookWorm...but I am sure people are doing it...and conveniently missing out the "your" and replacing it with "the"...

Thanks Dave :)
I am glad things are ok. I haven't had a chance to check in with my friend, he's taken off some time from work. Probably so he could deal with this.

[Wep]

I am glad things are ok. I haven't had a chance to check in with my friend, he's taken off some time from work. Probably so he could deal with this.

I hope your friends family is ok, I can't imagine the terror he would be feeling....really unimagineable

[ComicBookWorm]

I hope your friends family is ok, I can't imagine the terror he would be feeling....really unimagineableI don't think this is going to turn out well for him since he has a lot of family in the area.

[Wep]

Thats absolutely awful. I am sorry.

[Ana_Christina]

:hugs you all and kisses people who started this thread on the cheek:

Thank you! This thread is something I've always wanted but never knew where to find it. It's very hard for me as an Atheist; I come from Romania and the official religion is Christianity-Orthodoxism. Imagine how "cute" it is for me to hear everyone pretending that they are followers of the "right religion".

Of all my friends, only one is also an Atheist, though a very confused one (he is still unsure). So for me it is very hard to find someone who understands me and doesn't treat me like I was the plague or something.

It's been 4 years since I'm a convinced Atheist and ever since the day I became one, I constantly fought being looked upon with precaution, or worst, pity.

I am so happy I found this thread. I got tired of debating my belief in front of the people around me; now, I've come at the stage that I just shake my head in disbelief - what else :lol: - and walk away.

Wow, I feel like I've joined a therapy group :lol: . And it feels so good. "My name is Ana and I'm an Atheist"/"Hello, Ana!"(group replies). Just kidding, so don't ban me :) . Never had a good sense of humour, myself *sigh*

[Dementor Dave]

Hi there Ana. :) I know how you feel, as I'm an atheist in the deep South of the US. You are welcome to post here and receive encouragement whenever you like.

And Welcome to the forums. :welcome:

[Ana_Christina]

I know how you feel, as I'm an atheist in the deep South of the US. You are welcome to post here and receive encouragement whenever you like.

Ouch! I read (correct me if I am wrong) that America has the largest population of religious people in the world. I've also read in the same sociological report that the worldwide pecentage of Atheist among people was 4.92% in 1992. I guess it is harder for you than for me.

Thanks for the support. Have I said already how much I love this thread? :D

[Byrum]

It is good to have a place to vent your opinions, especially when you confront many things in your everday life that you don't agree with but you can't or won't speak out against. Like if your family makes you go to church you can't spend the whole tim screaming at everyone saying God doesn't exist, but it annoys you just the same. So venting on the internet to partly annonomous people is very healthy for me at least, to releive my frustrations and get support. Rock on atheist thread!

[Dementor Dave]

Ouch! I read (correct me if I am wrong) that America has the largest population of religious people in the world. I've also read in the same sociological report that the worldwide pecentage of Atheist among people was 4.92% in 1992. I guess it is harder for you than for me.

Thanks for the support. Have I said already how much I love this thread? :D

Oh honey, in the deep South the percentage of non-Christians is nearly zero. But its okay. I'm far tougher than anything supernatural, than any doctrine that relies on the supernatural.

Glad you like it. I basically got fed up one day and decided non-religious folk needed haven as much as anyone else.

[ComicBookWorm]

Oh honey, in the deep South the percentage of non-Christians is nearly zero. But its okay. I'm far tougher than anything supernatural, than any doctrine that relies on the supernatural.

Glad you like it. I basically got fed up one day and decided non-religious folk needed haven as much as anyone else.
Dave when I spent my three years in Alabama, I was astonished to see bible ads and church ads on TV. I'd always lived in secular urban environments and I was surprised at the level of religious content on the air.

[Dementor Dave]

Dave when I spent my three years in Alabama, I was astonished to see bible ads and church ads on TV. I'd always lived in secular urban environments and I was surprised at the level of religious content on the air.

It is amazing. There is job discrimination here over religion and lack thereof.

[Ana_Christina]

Well, and me who thought Romania was bad for an Atheist...

I don't watch TV, so I know not about religion advertisemnt or so, but I do know that at Christmas and Easter all you find at TV is carol concerts, Christmas/Easter movies and lots of messages about "Christmas is a time for forgiving and love". I find this insulting. I mean, it's not like being an Atheist makes you a satanist, or a person that knows not about love or forgiveness... I often was confronted with the satansim accusation, or worse, the one about morals. What is it with people that they don't understand that Ethics was not invented by religion? Or the fact that Atheism does not exclude Ethics?

As far as I know, they just don't get it. And if I finally manage to convince someone that I differ from being a Satanist, then I get the "poor misguided sheep" look. That is "adorable". I prefer the "I'm afraid you'll sacrifice me for Satan look"; it's much more encouraging for my self esteem :D

[Dementor Dave]

:lol: I like you. And I know where you're coming from. I'm amoung other things, a satanist, according to the religious folk around here. :sigh: People simply cannot grasp my lacking a need for a higher power. And then there is the "win my wayward soul" contingent. That never goes well.

Listen hon, if you ever need help on the forums, you owl me, and I'll see if I can help. :D Or if you're having issues you'd just rather not post on here.

[KryptonKitty]

As far as I know, they just don't get it. And if I finally manage to convince someone that I differ from being a Satanist, then I get the "poor misguided sheep" look. That is "adorable". I prefer the "I'm afraid you'll sacrifice me for Satan look"; it's much more encouraging for my self esteem :D
:rotfl:

I hate the "don't worry, someday you'll see the light" look too. I don't know why religious people feel they have to pity us, and the worst thing is when you tell them you don't need their pity and they say something along the lines of "I'll say a prayer for you" like that's going to make any difference.

I feel very sorry for you guys that live in such a religious place. Here all I have is my family bothering me and them I can ignore just fine. There really isn't that much religious propaganda from other people so the annoyance level stays relatively low for most of the time. It only gets a little higher when there are family meetings or when I'm forced to go to church because there there is always someone who notices I'm not participating and tries to convince me to do it because "it will make me feel better". I'd be better if I was at home watching tv and since that isn't viable why can't they just leave people alone. :grumble:

"I'm afraid you'll sacrifice me for Satan look"
This one is much better.:elaugh:

[grrliz]

Oh honey, in the deep South the percentage of non-Christians is nearly zero. But its okay. I'm far tougher than anything supernatural, than any doctrine that relies on the supernatural. Dave, have you considered the possibility that you are Supernatural? :D

(That would be the worst sort of thing for an atheist, to find out that you're actually a deity, wouldn't it?)

[Dementor Dave]

Dave, have you considered the possibility that you are Supernatural? :D

(That would be the worst sort of thing for an atheist, to find out that you're actually a deity, wouldn't it?)

Oh that would be seriously jarring.

[Wep]

Mmm, the holier than thou attitude you get from other people seriously wants me to swipe the look from their face :evil:...I remember we had some Christians doing that door knocking, bring Jesus into your home speel that they do...I told one group Jesus didn't belong in our home, we were full enough with the devil residing here. The look on their face was priceless....

I think I am luckier than most of you in a sense. I haven't come against serious barriers by having no faith. Only one of my friends is extremely religious, and she doesn't tend to talk about it. I can't imagine what it would be like living in such Christian societies...

As for Christianity becoming a trend in Australia, I think you are right. I am jost hoping it doesn't last long

[LeeJordanfan]

I remember we had some Christians doing that door knocking, bring Jesus into your home speel that they do...I told one group Jesus didn't belong in our home, we were full enough with the devil residing here. The look on their face was priceless....
:rotfl: That is too funny!

Around here we have a few Jehovah's Witnesses, but this town is so tiny that they've "done" most of the door-to-door long time back. I can't think of any other people who do door to door.

But that response..oh my goodness! I love it.

[Rapunzel]

I'm not an atheist, but can I ask a question in this thread of those that are?
(Seriously not judging - my mother is condescending and judgmental enough for a couple of hundred people, so I try to go as much the other way as I can.)
How do you deal with it when you lose someone you love? It's hard enough for me, and I have great faith that there is a life after this one and I'll see that person again. Isn't is unbearable for you?
(If nobody wants to address the question, just ignore me and I won't be offended.)

[grrliz]

How do you deal with it when you lose someone you love? It's hard enough for me, and I have great faith that there is a life after this one and I'll see that person again. Isn't is unbearable for you?Well, the death of a loved one is always pretty tragic, obviously, but my dealing with it has never involved "I'll see them again." Everyone grieves in their own way, I suppose, and mine own way has never really involved the idea of meeting up with someone again. It's more a matter of learning to cope without them and keeping them alive in memory, which I assume is what most people do whether or not they believe in an afterlife.

[Wep]

:rotfl: That is too funny!

Around here we have a few Jehovah's Witnesses, but this town is so tiny that they've "done" most of the door-to-door long time back. I can't think of any other people who do door to door.

But that response..oh my goodness! I love it.

:lol: It made me chuckle....

Yeah we have Jehovah witnesses here to, and we get them every now and again...I just don't answer the door now, unless I feel like being mean :evil:

But I know that seriously can harper the problems that Athiests get when they are viewed as Satan worshippers, so I probably am not helping by doing that, but they don't know what I believe in. Those that know, know I have good values and morals, and know that it is how I chose to live my life. And I am grateful they accept that, the same way I accept their choice.


How do you deal with it when you lose someone you love? It's hard enough for me, and I have great faith that there is a life after this one and I'll see that person again. Isn't is unbearable for you?

I'll answer your question Rapunzel, but I can't speak for everyone in my answer, and I don't know if others will be answering or not, but I'll take a crack at it.

I have always dealt with things myself. I lost both of my grandparents when I was younger, in the space of three months and it was heartbreaking. I did what other people do when they lose someone, I cried, I got angry, and I mourned. I never turned to God, even when I was little I didn't, I just dealt with things myself. I knew theat they would always be with me, but not in the religious way, just in my memories and heart. Does that make sense?

[KryptonKitty]

Well, the death of a loved one is always pretty tragic, obviously, but my dealing with it has never involved "I'll see them again." Everyone grieves in their own way, I suppose, and mine own way has never really involved the idea of meeting up with someone again. It's more a matter of learning to cope without them and keeping them alive in memory, which I assume is what most people do whether or not they believe in an afterlife.
This is pretty much how I feel too. I don't have to know I'm going to see someone in some kind of afterlife to feel I've loved the person here and that I took the most out the time we had together. It's better for me to think of the good times we spent together here than to wonder what we could have done or will do once I die too. I think it actually helps me to deal with something like that because when you love someone too much you may want to get together with her "faster" than you should and that isn't heathy. This way I know there is nothing after this life so I try to take the most out of it thinking it would probably be what that person would have wanted me to do.

[Wep]

I agree with Bel and Grrliz, it is more about cherishing what you had in the time you spent together. I don't believe in an afterlife, so I don't think about seeing them again. And I don't think that makes losing them more unbearable. Remembering them comforts me.

[ComicBookWorm]

There's no afterlife. So when you're done you're done. I know that believers get comfort from thinking there is an afterlife. But when you are an atheist, you just accept things as they come. Of course you mourn someone's loss and miss them, but life does move on anyway--whether you believe in an afterlife or not. And like anyone else with a loved one who died you celebrate their life.

That's why I think that living life to the fullest is the best route. Also I don't have to worry about things out of my control. I can control myself and to a lesser extent influence those around me--everything else is out of my control. When something like the tsunami hits or even a closer personal tragedy, I don't have to try to understand why. It is always toughest on believers during a personal tragedy, because then they wonder if they did something to bring this on themselves. There is great peace in not having to worry about stuff like that. I just accept life as it comes. Life is what you choose to make of it.

[Rapunzel]

Thanks for the answers, everybody. This (death) is a subject I've been thinking about a lot lately and I probably should quit. Maybe I'll try to find a happy thought.
Thanks again.

[KryptonKitty]

Happy thoughts... Happy thoughts...

I don't know. Have you tried chocolate? It always does the trick for me. :D

[Rapunzel]

Happy thoughts... Happy thoughts...

I don't know. Have you tried chocolate? It always does the trick for me. :D
As a general rule, I don't like chocolate. But I crave it when I'm depressed. I've been eating a lot of it lately. :agree:

[Ana-Magus]

As a general rule, I don't like chocolate. But I crave it when I'm depressed. I've been eating a lot of it lately. :agree:

If you are feeling depressed, you should really seek professional help. It's against the rules of this forum to give medical advice of any kind, so please be careful of what you say. It seems as if you are seeking advice.

[KryptonKitty]

There must be dementors around. :scared:

Now if we could only get back on topic... :rolleyes:

[Dementor Dave]

Dementors... where!?

I'm so proud of this thread. Its a real success story. Its amazing to me how easily the atheists here have come together to support one another. And its grown so quickly. Bully for us, lets keep it up!

[KryptonKitty]

Hey Dave I had forgotten about you! Dementors... Silly me. :p

It really is a great thread, and I'm glad I found out about it so soon.

[ComicBookWorm]

It's a terrific thread.

I've always gotten a double dose of religion foisted on me. Christians have been trying to convert me as long as I remember because I am Jewish. And now I get this sorrowful pity from them because I'm an atheist. Well, I'm still Jewish since it is also a cultural identity. I no longer practice Judaism.

I have a degenerative neurological condition. I used work with three fundamentalists in a group of ten people. They would all tell me if I came to Jesus I would be healed. I pointed out to them that there are an awful lot of faithful with the same problem as I have and that they aren't doing any better. But it was doubly insulting to me. First as Jew, I've had it up to here with Christians trying to convert me for my own good. And second as an atheist, I resent the implication that my own lack of beliefs is responsible for my illness.

My daughter has an ironic approach to people who say they will pray for her. She has damaged lungs which impair her breathing. So when they say they will pray for her, she says save your breath (which for her has added meaning). :evil:

[Rapunzel]

If you are feeling depressed, you should really seek professional help. It's against the rules of this forum to give medical advice of any kind, so please be careful of what you say. It seems as if you are seeking advice.
I sent you an owl. I had a serious question I wanted to ask of an atheist, and I found a place to ask it. And I got some good answers. :agree:

[Dementor Dave]

Okay, I really hate raining on parades, etc. but, this thread is not for atheist to explain ourselves...

... but this one, it appears, is...

Atheism & Agnosticism Explained (http://http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=4206)

[Rapunzel]

Sorry Dave! :blush:
Do you want me to delete my posts from here?

[Dementor Dave]

No honey, I'm not upset. That thread was not quite as visable. I just wanted to make it so, to avoid confusion. Glad someone answered your questions, and you are welcome to owl me with any, should you wish. :D

[ComicBookWorm]

I know I didn't mind the question because it was asked for in a polite way. But I'm glad Dave pointed out the right thread to go to for more answers, since none of us want to have to be justifying ourselves because we get enough of that in everyday life.

[Dementor Dave]

Whats all this, "end days are coming" supposed to mean to me? Its really rather annoying. Seals breaking and what-not. :huh: Especially having studied the bible to the extent which I have, and being able to see just how vaguely given these signs are, and most importantly how they are misinterpreted. What bother's me is when its shoved down my throat. "THe world could end tomorrow, would you go to heaven or hell" type questions annoy the devil out of me (teehee, I made a pun). So nowdays, most people who confront me with such find themselves being lectured on how Rasputin was more accurate than any biblical prophet, and how I have no faith in any biblical apollynon. Then I'm usually told I'm going to hell. Which really dosen't bother me, since it dosen't exist. :sigh: By this point, evangelical's tend to give up and leave. :sigh: the sad thing is the amount of this I suffer through.

[ComicBookWorm]

It's much more exciting to think that something grand is coming soon. It makes the dull everyday take on some added meaning. The problem is that I am 56 and have heard that the end is coming for at least 50 years that I have been paying attention. So far, nothing. It was supposed to happen at the millennium and it didn't. The Jews have been waiting a whole lot longer than the Christians for the messiah to come. So far, nothing yet.

I want to address the question posed by a couple of believers about antagonism toward Christians. There are two reason they are more of a target in these discussions. First, they are the predominant western religion. If some other religion were dominant they would probably be a target as well. Second, they believe they have to convert people (spread the good news). You don't have Jews or atheists knocking on your door or shoving pamphets into your hands. No one wants someone else insisting that your own beliefs are wrong and theirs are right.

I know a Coptic Christian from Egypt, he harbors resentment toward the Muslims in Eqypt for both of the above reasons. First for being the dominant religion and smothering them, and second for trying to force Islam on them.

In America, we not only have a dominant Christian culture, but they feel they have the right to define and enforce their beliefs on others. Most people just want to believe as they wish, and live as they wish, without intrusion. Live and let live. But over and over in the DoIMC threads I hear a type of entitlement that Christians think they have. They say things like we're a Christian nation so their morals and behaviors are the ones everyone should follow. They forget about separation of church and state, and the equally important protections against tyranny of the majority. We are a pluralistic society and that is our greatest strength--we need to cherish our minorities and differences. The minute we start swamping over our diversity with any one culture or religion we will sacrifice that which makes us strong.

It's been gratifying to see the international nature of the people posting in this thread.

[Wep]

That is actually one of my biggest problems with religions, particularly Christianity (I have many more, and I am sure I will discuss them in due course ;)).

If people choose to follow or not to follow a religion, than that is their choice and they have every right to do so. But if they do choose to follow a religion, I don't think they have the right to force it, sorry "spread the message", to people of other persuasions. I find it insulting and ignorant. No one has the right to say that their religion is better than any other nor do they have the right to expect everyone to follow that religion, regardless of whether it is the predominant religion or not.

I don't know if this will insult anyone here, and I apologise if it does, please let me know. But you see Christian workers getting into strife (kidnapping, jail etc) in non Christian countries, because they are spreading the word. Part of me feels that if they are going to go and try and convert others with their holier than thou attitude, they should expect the consequences they receive. Saying that, I don't condone the kidnapping/torture etc of Christian people, but I can understand why the people of those countries retaliate in such a way.

[Dementor Dave]

Meh. I'm feeling very trite. I cannot provide proof that I'm feeling trite though, so you all cannot disprove it. :p.

And now I retire, lest I actually become tift. *encourage encourage* be well, all.

[Sunfish McCaul]

Man... this is a great thread, one of the best ones I've read on this forum. It makes me all warm and fuzzy inside. :p
Group hug!
I've always been surrounded with Christianity, and it mostly is Christianity. There's not much Judaism or Islam in my city at all... It sort of gets to you after a while, and I hadn't even really noticed. I live within an hour of Toronto, so I'm planning to move there as soon as possible. Big cities tend to be more ethnic, and more tolerant. There are way more heathens down there. :D It must be the smog.

[Stellamedusa]

Happy new year, fellow athiests! Our reward for getting through Christmas. I hope you all had a good enough night that you're all as hungover as I am this afternoon. Here's to secular celebration. Cheers.

[Wep]

Happy new year, fellow athiests! Our reward for getting through Christmas. I hope you all had a good enough night that you're all as hungover as I am this afternoon. Here's to secular celebration. Cheers.

Happy new Year :D

And if anyone is feeling as bad as I am at this point in time....you must have had a ripper as well!!!

[Aurora Evans]

Happy New Year! Although it's almost over now - I've spent the whole day recovering.

[Byrum]

Ispent the whole day in a weary daze after staying up all night. Oh well, my fault for having to much fun. I like the idea that New Year's is our celebration of getting through Christmas, I wonder what woul happen if all the atheists declared New Year's Eve their 'religious' holiday? Then WE could go door to door and ask people to convert for our 'holiday season'. We would probably end up in jail :).

[Aurora Evans]

I spent the whole day in a weary daze after staying up all night. Oh well, my fault for having too much fun. I like the idea that New Year's is our celebration of getting through Christmas, I wonder what would happen if all the atheists declared New Year's Eve their 'religious' holiday? Then WE could go door to door and ask people to convert for our 'holiday season'. We would probably end up in jail :).
lol. It would certainly cause a stir...

[Dementor Dave]

hmm... atheism is not a religion, so we cannot really have a religious holiday...

[Aurora Evans]

hmm... atheism is not a religion, so we cannot really have a religious holiday...
How about a 'non-religious' holiday?

[Dementor Dave]

Works for me. :D I do not personally celebrate any holidays.

[Byrum]

That's why we need one. It would be cool to have a day devoted to our beleifs, and I put religious in apostrophes because I know it wouldn't be a 'religious' occassion. But it would never work becuase religious people would get angry and have the government ban it.

[Aurora Evans]

Sorry to get off the 'holiday' topic, but my friend just sent me a quote which I love:
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"
- Epicurus

[Byrum]

Quite the conundrum God would have, isn't it. But I guess because he doesn't exist he doesn't have that problem. The problem is trying to get religious people to see yor side of the story, especially when it is right in front of their face and they still ignore it. Blind faith, possibly more like blind ignorance

[Wep]

No which is why Christians get under my skin more than anyone else when it comes to religion. I am always open to listening to others about their religions, I find it fascinating. I am a very tolerant person but Christianity pushes my limit sometimes....

[Northern Witch]

ComicBookWorm, I completely agree with what you said. :tu: I've been avoidning the Good thread because in my own experience, it's an impossible discussion from the beginning.

[Byrum]

Its because Christianity is the dominant religion in an increasingly atheist society. We don't see the other religions as overly zealous converters because:

1) Islam is not popular enough in Western Culture, especially at the moment. If you were an atheist in a Muslim country I don't think they would try to convert you so much as throw you out or even harass and torture you.
2) Buddhism isn't about conversion, it is about inner peace, and they don't necessarily beleive in God (depending which sect) but in reincarnation. In fact some forms of Buddhism aren't religions at all, I think.
3) Jews, in my experience anyway, don't want to convert people because they are Gentiles. I'll have to get a verdict on that one from Comicbookworm, but I don't think that they actively persue people because they aren't originally from the Hebrew origins :huh: .
4) Hindu's are very similar to the Buddhist's, as Buddhism comes from Hinduism, but because of their caste system they are not going to convert anyone because the system relies on the family you are born into, so any new members just start at the bottom (my Hindu is a little rusty though :sad: ).

And finally Christians. They are Western societies dominant religion, and their main doctrine is to spread the word. Fortunately, there are many people out there like us who don't beleive, but unfortunately, Christians see it as their duty to 'inform' :grumble: us on how wrong we are and try to 'save' :angel: us. But the more they 'inform', the less people they seem to 'save' :no:. Another one of religions little conundrums. :evil:

BTW, one of my uncles friends tried to convince me that Catholic's (like himself) weren't actually Christians. a) like there's a difference and b) why do I care? :evil:

[Wep]

BTW, one of my uncles friends tried to convince me that Catholic's (like himself) weren't actually Christians. a) like there's a difference and b) why do I care?

:rotfl: I had a drunken debate with a Christian man when I was out in town one night about the same thing...It didn't go very well, for obvious reasons, especially when he insulted me by saying that I am selfish for dealing with things by myself rather than turning to God, because I didn't have the ability to give myself and my faith to anyone but myself....

Lets just say one of my friends had to drag me away before I nearly socked him one....:grumble: now that would have made the evening enjoyable :evil:

[ComicBookWorm]

Well you can convert to become Jewish, but Jews aren't out soliciting business. Mostly they just want to be left alone. I know my Coptic Christian friend from Egypt felt very discriminated against and basically smothered in Egypt. Hindus and Buddists just want to do their thing in peace.

Most fundamentalists of any religion (Christian, Muslim, even the Ultra-Orthodox Jews) are difficult to live around because of the ferver of their zeal.

[Byrum]

:rotfl: I had a drunken debate with a Christian man when I was out in town one night about the same thing...It didn't go very well, for obvious reasons, especially when he insulted me by saying that I am selfish for dealing with things by myself rather than turning to God, because I didn't have the ability to give myself and my faith to anyone but myself....
Mmm perhaps he should try and ask God whether Catholics are Christians or not. If God was there, I would have this vision of him sitting up on his cloud just shaking his head :no: .

I agree Comicbookworm that any religious zealot would be painful to live around, but quite frankly I would prefer to live around Buddhists than any other religion because even in the countries that they are dominant in the only evidence you see is people in orange robes asking for donations and differently styled architecture. After that I would say Christians, Jews and Hindu's because although they might (in the Christian's case, would) try to convert they wouldn't be as hostile as the radical Islamic people. Islam by nature is very similar to Christianity but with more rules, but Islamic radicals seem to have less tolerance for other faiths. Unless they live in a minority like the Western countries, then for some reason they keep fairly quiet :eyebrows: .

I was browsing through the Christians encouraging Christians thread and I noticed a link to a sermon from Melbourne Australia on the tsunami tragedy http://www.laughingbird.net/SermonTexts/0343.html. Read it for yourselves, but basically I think it says that the disaster occured because God wanted to remind us that he was there, and that he was in the tsunami AND the mother's who's children were ripped from their hands. Intriguing :huh: .

[ComicBookWorm]

Mmm perhaps he should try and ask God whether Catholics are Christians or not. If God was there, I would have this vision of him sitting up on his cloud just shaking his head :no: .

I agree Comicbookworm that any religious zealot would be painful to live around, but quite frankly I would prefer to live around Buddhists than any other religion because even in the countries that they are dominant in the only evidence you see is people in orange robes asking for donations and differently styled architecture. After that I would say Christians, Jews and Hindu's because although they might (in the Christian's case, would) try to convert they wouldn't be as hostile as the radical Islamic people. Islam by nature is very similar to Christianity but with more rules, but Islamic radicals seem to have less tolerance for other faiths. Unless they live in a minority like the Western countries, then for some reason they keep fairly quiet :eyebrows: .

I was browsing through the Christians encouraging Christians thread and I noticed a link to a sermon from Melbourne Australia on the tsunami tragedy http://www.laughingbird.net/SermonTexts/0343.html. Read it for yourselves, but basically I think it says that the disaster occured because God wanted to remind us that he was there, and that he was in the tsunami AND the mother's who's children were ripped from their hands. Intriguing :huh: .
I can't comment and not get banned.

[Byrum]

Oh did I do something stupid?

[ComicBookWorm]

Oh did I do something stupid?
No, I just have a strong reaction to the sermon.

[Wep]

I honestly don't know what to say in response to that.....Like many things in religion the logic confuses me, baffles me and angers me....

[teo]

I can't comment and not get banned.

You're not the only one. Ugh.

[Spew Member]

I'm not an atheist, but I'm here for support! CBW, they just say things like that to make sense of things they don't understand. (In reference to the sermon.) :sigh:

[Atashi]

That "sermon" turned my stomach..

[Wep]

I'm not an atheist, but I'm here for support! CBW, they just say things like that to make sense of things they don't understand. (In reference to the sermon.) :sigh:

It is always nice to have support Spew ;)


I think I want to crawl into a rock knowing an Aussie said that....though I do think things like that were said all over the world, and that disappoints me more than all else...

[Spew Member]

It is always nice to have support Spew ;)
I think I want to crawl into a rock knowing an Aussie said that....though I do think things like that were said all over the world, and that disappoints me more than all else...

No problem! :tu: It might just be my town, but it seems like it's a bit worse over here because the media is making it sound like Christianity is being threatened right now. That on top of a terrible disaster has really brought out a lot of really extreme comments...(and people holding "repent your sins" signs on street corners). :shrug:

[Wep]

No problem! :tu: It might just be my town, but it seems like it's a bit worse over here because the media is making it sound like Christianity is being threatened right now. That on top of a terrible disaster has really brought out a lot of really extreme comments...(and people holding "repent your sins" signs on street corners). :shrug:


Its funny you say that, because my parents and friends were all waiting to see what religious extremists would come out of the woodworks with this natural disaster.

I don't think the religious aspect has been getting alot of attention here, cause we just aren't (not yet) as a religious society as others. Or maybe I have just been ignoring it (I do have a habit of doing that :D)...Can any Aussies clarify that?


P.S Please remind me not to go into the christians encouraging Christians thread so I do not get myself banned ;)

[Spew Member]

P.S Please remind me not to go into the christians encouraging Christians thread so I do not get myself banned ;)

Okay, and I'll try to do the same. *crosses fingers behind back* :whistle:

Its funny you say that, because my parents and friends were all waiting to see what religious extremists would come out of the woodworks with this natural disaster.

I don't think the religious aspect has been getting alot of attention here, cause we just aren't (not yet) as a religious society as others. Or maybe I have just been ignoring it (I do have a habit of doing that :D)...Can any Aussies clarify that?


P.S Please remind me not to go into the christians encouraging Christians thread so I do not get myself banned ;)

We had extremists before this accident where I live. During Christmas all you heard on the news was "liberals are trying to take Christmas away." They feel like they're under attack. A lot of people voted for Bush because of their religious beliefs. Some of them were afraid that if they didn't their bibles would be taken away. It is very religious here and this has really made things worse.

[Wep]

Mmm, I was listening to the radio on the drive up the coast the other day, and there was a radio doco about America (is it the red centre? or whatever they call it?) and it was about the huge connection people in central America have with their church and how Bush has been able to successfully gain their conservative votes....One guy said that the holy trinity are all mighty and in his mind Bush should be the fourth member....lets just say a few choice words were spoken and my boyfriend had to calm me down some...how unusual :rolleyes:

[SGosling]

Its because Christianity is the dominant religion in an increasingly atheist society. We don't see the other religions as overly zealous converters because:

1) Islam is not popular enough in Western Culture, especially at the moment. If you were an atheist in a Muslim country I don't think they would try to convert you so much as throw you out or even harass and torture you.

:


Do you know how offensive that is, have you ever been to a Muslim country or know any Muslims,
Christians, non-Christians non believers everyone is welcome as long as the follow the rules of their host “when in Rome do as the Romans do” if a Muslim comes to your country you would expect them to follow your laws, yet people go the Muslim countries and expect to live by their own rules. And have the nerve to get all bent out of shape because people get upset.

[grrliz]

BTW, one of my uncles friends tried to convince me that Catholic's (like himself) weren't actually Christians. a) like there's a difference and b) why do I care? :evil:Actually, it's funny that you bring this up because I've often entertained the same thoughts. I was raised Roman Catholic, which obviously is a branch of Christianity, and yet at the same time while I might at one point have considered myself RC I never, ever considered myself Christian. The Catholics I've known have never referred to themselves as Christians, they've always been Catholics pure and simple, where as it was members of the various Protestant offshoots who referred to themselves as Christians. So I can see your uncle's friend's point that Cathoclics aren't Christians, if he comes from the same slightly warped understand that I do. :D

The Christians posting in the God thread and in the Christian thread feel they are doing evangelical work. We're debating the issue of God's existence on logic, and they're out to save our souls. I know that Christianity is supposed to be spreading the "Good News", but do they realize how unwelcome it is, even to others who aren't atheists.Stemming from my above twisted delineation between Catholocism and Christianity, I always hated being evangelized as well despite (apparently) being considered by outsiders to be Christian! Then again, I felt evangelized by attending a Catholic school, so maybe the problem lies solely with me. :)

[Stellamedusa]

Its funny you say that, because my parents and friends were all waiting to see what religious extremists would come out of the woodworks with this natural disaster.

I don't think the religious aspect has been getting alot of attention here, cause we just aren't (not yet) as a religious society as others. Or maybe I have just been ignoring it (I do have a habit of doing that :D)...Can any Aussies clarify that?


I don't really see us as being a religious society. It's not all that hard to ignore religion completely here, apart from the occasional door-to-door God Squad. I would say that if it's easy to ignore it, then we can't be all that religious.

[Wep]

I don't really see us as being a religious society. It's not all that hard to ignore religion completely here, apart from the occasional door-to-door God Squad. I would say that if it's easy to ignore it, then we can't be all that religious.

Mmm, thats what I thought. I didn't think there had been alot of the Religious angle with the tsunami in the media, mind you I think I have predominately only been reading the papers, so I am not so sure about tv views....

[Byrum]

And have the nerve to get all bent out of shape because people get upset.
People die. I think it is wrong because when people go to these countries if they speak their beleifs they can DIE. They sure do get upset, basically because the only understanding of their otherwise peaceful religion is given to them by extremists who want retribution for the West, as they usually cannot read. I've said that before, if you had bothered to read my other posts and see where I was coming from. I don't see many Muslims being executed for practicing their beleifs here, so I just hope that some day a little more education can be adopted in the Muslim countries and they can adapt to Islam's peaceful ways.

Anyway moving on, I wanted to know if anyone had heard any of the arguments that Catholics put up to make people beleive they are not Christians. My Uncle's friend was trying to explain it to me but all he could come up with was 'We are a different religion to Christianity, even though we have some things in common'. So after he had finished ranting I said, 'So Catholics don't beleive in Christ?' and he just got up and walked away. :eyebrows:

BTW on that sermon, the priest asked a lot of questions during it, but were any of them actually answered?

[Wep]

I am just going to say, that I am always one for debate, but remember to keep it civil guys, or we'll get this thread shut down....and then where would I whinge about religion ;)

And no Byrum the only answer he came up with is the word is the flesh oir something like that...so to me as usual, they are yet to explain themselves rationally....

[Byrum]

We could always make an agnostics encouraging agnostics thread, it's not atheism but it is close ;)

Faith is irrational, they say it themselves (I read that somewhere in the CEC thread)

[Wep]

Least they can admit that.

I just don't think there is anything in that sermon that answers anything that the preacher himself asked at the beginning, and it is frightening to think that others will be passing that sermon on to other christians so as to help them with the tsunami crisis

[Byrum]

Yes but how does that help? I found no answers in it, no explaination other than God was there the whole time as the wave and the victim, which to me made no sense. Yet the CEC thread was raving about it, maybe it's the closest thing to an answer they have.

[SGosling]

People die. I think it is wrong because when people go to these countries if they speak their beleifs they can DIE. They sure do get upset, basically because the only understanding of their otherwise peaceful religion is given to them by extremists who want retribution for the West, as they usually cannot read. I've said that before, if you had bothered toread my other posts and see where I was coming from. I don't see many Muslims being executed for practicing their beleifs here, so I just hope that some day a little more education can be adopted in the Muslim countries and they can adapt to Islam's peaceful ways.

In Muslim countries their rules apply, and the people who go, as visitors, should obey the rules of the country they are visiting. If I went to the USA and committed a crime in any one of the states the have the death penalty I would be killed by the government. Yet in my country there is no death penalty, should I be exempt because I think the rules are barbaric and in my country the government agree with me
In Muslims countries you will not be killed for not being a Muslim, you will not be killed unless you break their rules and even then you be tried by an imam court. Getting killed for being different is more likely to happen in western society
Muslim countries were better educated and more civilised long before western society had the basic understanding of 2+2=4

[Byrum]

Perhaps they were, but they aren't now. I don't think there should be a death penalty at all. I'm not saying all Muslims are bad people, I'm just saying that in these countries people are uneducated about Islam so they can be told by people who have it wrong that it is about hating the west and retribution, so they have no other way of dealing with things.

BTW, does anyone know what's the latest with Saddam? I havent heard anything in the news about him lately.

[Wep]

Yes but how does that help? I found no answers in it, no explaination other than God was there the whole time as the wave and the victim, which to me made no sense. Yet the CEC thread was raving about it, maybe it's the closest thing to an answer they have.

I have no idea, I am as lost as you are on that...I could ask them in their thread, but I don't believe in forum suicide :evil:

[SGosling]

Perhaps they were, but they aren't now. I don't think there should be a death penalty at all. I'm not saying all Muslims are bad people, I'm just saying that in these countries people are uneducated about Islam so they can be told by people who have it wrong that it is about hating the west and retribution, so they have no other way of dealing with things.

BTW, does anyone know what's the latest with Saddam? I havent heard anything in the news about him lately.

so you are saying that because the "western" world thinks something the rest of the world should follow suit. they follow their rules and should be allowed just that. If I came to your country and said to your government “””Right we in Europe want you to teach all your kids French as a main language and Buddhism as the number one religion.”””
What do you think the reaction would be? And yet you seem to be thinking that because we “know better” we should impose our belief on others, that sort of smacks of missionaries killing anyone in Australia and Tasmania who refused to become Christians

[Byrum]

I have no idea, I am as lost as you are on that...I could ask them in their thread, but I don't believe in forum suicide :evil:
Lol I wouldn't attempt that, but I would really really like someone to explain it to me in simple terms, the whole thing sounds like it is written in another language personally.

[Wep]

Maybe try owling one of the posters in there, like Hogwarts Chaplain, she may help explain it as she did post the link...I don't know.

[ComicBookWorm]

Do you know how offensive that is, have you ever been to a Muslim country or know any Muslims,
Christians, non-Christians non believers everyone is welcome as long as the follow the rules of their host “when in Rome do as the Romans do” if a Muslim comes to your country you would expect them to follow your laws, yet people go the Muslim countries and expect to live by their own rules. And have the nerve to get all bent out of shape because people get upset.
Islam is a very peaceful loving religion, but my Coptic friend said his entire neighborhood had been under attack for years and they suffered severe restrictions and experienced nasty discrimination. They had to ship out the few remaining Jews in Iraq recently since they were in danger.

[SGosling]

I think it depends on which country and whether fundamentalist Islam is predominant. Mostly Islam is a very peaceful, loving religion, but the fundamentalist strain can be very intolerant. My Coptic friend said his entire neighborhood had been under attack for years and they suffered severe restrictions and experienced nasty discrimination. They had to ship out the few remaining Jews in Iraq recently since they were in danger.
I agree that some fundamentalist Muslims in some countries are intolerant and make life hard for none Muslims. But that is not the case for all countries if I had made a statement that all Jewish areas of the world are intolerant of non-Jews and would harass or torture anyone just because they were not Jews. That would get me a warning or a Banning but it’s ok to say it of Muslims. :no: :huh:



1) Islam is not popular enough in Western Culture, especially at the moment. If you were an atheist in a Muslim country I don't think they would try to convert you so much as throw you out or even harass and torture you.

[Byrum]

Ok come on did i say anywhere in there that all Muslim countries kill people of other religions, I said they were MORE LIKELY to throw you out or harass you than to try and CONVERT you. You have taken it out of context when in context it is not a deregoatory statement. Conversion really isn't a Muslim thing to do, you are either Muslim or you are not, and in a REALLY REALLY SMALL percentage of the world bad things MAY happen to you if you are not one. That is what I was trying to say.

[SGosling]

Ok come on did i say anywhere in there that all Muslim countries kill people of other religions, I said they were MORE LIKELY to throw you out or harass you than to try and CONVERT you. You have taken it out of context when in context it is not a deregoatory statement. Conversion really isn't a Muslim thing to do, you are either Muslim or you are not, and in a REALLY REALLY SMALL percentage of the world bad things MAY happen to you if you are not one. That is what I was trying to say.



1) Islam is not popular enough in Western Culture, especially at the moment. If you were an atheist in a Muslim country I don't think they would try to convert you so much as throw you out or even harass and torture you.
:
those are your own words and the meaning is clear despite how you now want them to mean
My quote is not out of context you itemised the bullet points and I quoted your bullet point in full
Secondly, anyone can become a Muslim anyone can convert I know several Christians who are now Muslim, according to Muslim doctrine it is good that all people convert to Muslim faith It’s a lot harder to leave the faith

[Byrum]

Yes but again you have left stuff that I said out. I never said i was HARD to convert to Islam I said that Muslims don't actively go out and knock door to door asking people to convert. I think they would much prefer you to come to them. If you are still going to go on with the harass and torture thing fine, MY point was that it happens. Period, end of story, it happens.

[SGosling]

Yes but again you have left stuff that I said out. I never said i was HARD to convert to Islam I said that Muslims don't actively go out and knock door to door asking people to convert. I think they would much prefer you to come to them. If you are still going to go on with the harass and torture thing fine, MY point was that it happens. Period, end of story, it happens.
this is my last post on this part of the subject
I live in an area where Muslims knock on doors and offer free gifts of passages of their holy book, and you are the one who brought up the sweeping statement about "harass and torture thing " with your closed mind I guess it is the end of the story

[Byrum]

Thank you for finally dropping it, now maybe we can move on to something else.

[Spew Member]

I'm here to pledge my support to you all (and Judy). I'm sorry about the bashing you're getting in the Christian and God threads. Keep your chins up. :tu:

[ComicBookWorm]

I remain appalled at the condescending post that felt sorry for me. The nerve of someone to display their smug judgmental opinions like that. How pathetic. I was accused of making people lose their faith. As if I had some magical power. Atheists don't proselytize. If someone changes their beliefs they come to that on their own. Atheists just use logic and perhaps scientific explanation (all though not all atheists rely on science for their positions).

I recently had a friend who was wavering discuss this with me and I told him he had to come to his own resolution. His reasons for questioning God were personal and family issues. I didn't then give him the reasons that he shouldn't believe in God and should become an atheists. Atheists don't recruit. It is always a personal decision for each individual. I actually told him that his problems with his family shouldn't drive him from his church.

[Spew Member]

I remain appalled at the condescending post that felt sorry for me. The nerve of someone to display their smug judgmental opinions like that. How pathetic. I was accused of making people lose their faith. As if I had some magical power. Atheists don't proselytize. If someone changes their beliefs they come to that on their own. Atheists just use logic and perhaps scientific explanation (all though not all atheists rely on science for their positions).

I recently had a friend who was wavering discuss this with me and I told him he had to come to his own resolution. His reasons for questioning God were personal and family issues. I didn't then give him the reasons that he shouldn't believe in God and should become an atheists. Atheists don't recruit. It is always a personal decision for each individual. I actually told him that his problems with his family shouldn't drive him from his church.

That post spoke for itself.

It's a debate thread, you're supposed to be debating your opinion in there. If someone changes their religion because of something you say they were probably on the verge of changing it anyway.

[ComicBookWorm]

That post spoke for itself.

It's a debate thread, you're supposed to be debating your opinion in there. If someone changes their religion because of something you say they were probably on the verge of changing it anyway.
I appreciate the support. Several posters also expressed the same sentiment you did which was gratifying. I lost my computer connection last night or I would have seen the nasty post sooner.

It wasn't a bad enough post to report as a bad post, but it was certainly an obnoxious post. Thanks again for the support.

[Morgoth]

This ISN'T a debate thread. It's meant to be a place of question and counsel otherwise I'll close the whole **** area down.

[Wep]

Wow, ComicBookWorm, you really get some polite commentaries huh? ;)

*sigh* Do they realise how hypocritical and condescinding those opinions are? Do they care? Of course not. They accuse us of turning people from their faith, because why? We may state something from science or logic that contradicts religious sentiments, but how is that remotely like actively turning people to/from a religion, to your beliefs. If your faith can't hold against those comments, shouldn't they be questioning their own beliefs/faith? Not laying the blame on other people when they or others are swayed from a religion to none, or to another form?

I get annoyed by the fact that I take into account other peoples religious beliefs and try not to offend their beliefs in any way. Which is why I tend to avoid religious discussions with some of my friends (cause they can lead to arguements, and I don't want that). But why is it ok for them to insult the fact that I don't believe in anything, by offering sympathy or looking at me like I am the devil incarnate, or telling me that the only reason I made my decision is because it is cool?

I like I assume most of us here, made our decision on our own, in our own way by judging what we see and what we believe. Whether science plays a part or not. Not because someone told us to. Most athiests, well I in particular, hate those religions that try and force their beliefs on to other people in attempts to convert them, so why would we do the same thing?....[/rant]

So can someone encourage me as to why I bother saying anything at all?

[ComicBookWorm]

Wow, ComicBookWorm, you really get some polite commentaries huh? ;)

*sigh* Do they realise how hypocritical and condescinding those opinions are? Do they care? Of course not. They accuse us of turning people from their faith, because why? We may state something from science or logic that contradicts religious sentiments, but how is that remotely like actively turning people to/from a religion, to your beliefs. If your faith can't hold against those comments, shouldn't they be questioning their own beliefs/faith? Not laying the blame on other people when they or others are swayed from a religion to none, or to another form?

I get annoyed by the fact that I take into account other peoples religious beliefs and try not to offend their beliefs in any way. Which is why I tend to avoid religious discussions with some of my friends (cause they can lead to arguements, and I don't want that). But why is it ok for them to insult the fact that I don't believe in anything, by offering sympathy or looking at me like I am the devil incarnate, or telling me that the only reason I made my decision is because it is cool?

I like I assume most of us here, made our decision on our own, in our own way by judging what we see and what we believe. Whether science plays a part or not. Not because someone told us to. Most athiests, well I in particular, hate those religions that try and force their beliefs on to other people in attempts to convert them, so why would we do the same thing?....[/rant]

So can someone encourage me as to why I bother saying anything at all?She thinks that someone made her brother lose his faith so she was taking it out on me. All I did was tell her that a religious television network isn't the place to get neutral science information.

[Nys]

She thinks that someone made her brother lose his faith so she was taking it out on me. All I did was tell her that a religious television network isn't the place to get neutral science information.
Which I think is a rather good idea.

Well this is my first post in here, but I'm pretty sure I've read most of the thread. I'm basically wondering whether i actually am an Atheist or not. I don't claim to be Catholic (though I am confirmed (i.e can take the bread and wine at church)) unless of course it will get me out of work on a Sunday.

I most certainly do not believe everything that is written in the Bible. A lot of my Catholic friends (I have a few after 5 years of a strict Catholic Boarding school) believe it work for word. The Bible is fully of metaphorical stories, trying to help you through life (supposedly, or this could be another form of mind control :angel: ) but seriously, if you read the old testement there are some great stories I used to read as bed time stories (particularly the one of Joesph and his coat of many colours, his brothers end up selling him off, I think my brothers made me read that story......:rolleyes:)

My basic belief is that there are only 2 certainties in life, death and taxes. So you may as well try to not pay the taxman too much, and be good to people. Christians forget that particular commandment that says "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you" which includes not trying to enforce your God onto others, cause you wouldn't like it either....

So am I an Athesist who merely enjoys the many holidays that Catholism brings? (you wouldn't believe the days we had off at school for our School's Saints Feast days!!!). Or am I merely a cynical Catholic who doesn't believe everything that I was told, and refuses to have my mind controlled...

On another point, while I'm typing... I am in admiration of you all, many try to fall back religon to try to sort through their problems with the world and in general. I honestly believe that Atheists much be particularly strong to be able to deal with these things themselves...

[Byrum]

She thinks that someone made her brother lose his faith so she was taking it out on me. All I did was tell her that a religious television network isn't the place to get neutral science information.
I think even the best of us can sometimes over generalise. That lady was obviously upset because she probably doesn't understand what her brother is doing, he is rejecting everything she has ever learnt and their whole way of life up until this point (if they watch the religious television networks then they were obviously raised in some kind of Christian denomination). It hurts her because he has rejected everything she stood for and she probably didn't have a good opinion of atheists to begin with, so who better to blame. Not her brother, because she loves him, he is just misguided by those who 'don't beleive what I beleive' (in a lot less nice terms).

[Stellamedusa]

I get annoyed by the fact that I take into account other peoples religious beliefs and try not to offend their beliefs in any way. Which is why I tend to avoid religious discussions with some of my friends (cause they can lead to arguements, and I don't want that). But why is it ok for them to insult the fact that I don't believe in anything, by offering sympathy or looking at me like I am the devil incarnate, or telling me that the only reason I made my decision is because it is cool?

So can someone encourage me as to why I bother saying anything at all?

It's awful, isn't it, most of the time I just say nothing about it either. In fact, the only time I make a comment about religion to anyone outside of my immediate family is on the internet! There's just no point, most of the people I know are Christians and I know what the response will be. Have you noticed also that they're so much more easily offended than we are? Once when I was at school, a friend of mine told me that I had no right to say that I didn't believe in God, because we went to a church school, and that she found it really offensive when I said that (I said it very mildly, one time only!). No matter that I had to go to religious classes and have the idea that I was going to hell preached at me week in, week out. I told her this and asked her why she didn't think my beliefs were worthy of respect and she said "but you don't have beliefs. There's nothing to respect". Which I think says it all.

It is quite sad, but I really do keep my religions friends at more of a distance than my atheist friends. I suppose because at some level they think I'm not as "good" as they are, or that I'm going to hell or similar. It's very hard to be friends with someone when you know they think that about you.

I guess that wasn't really all that encouraging, sorry :sad: I meant to say something happy when I started typing, promise!

[Elder Granger]

She thinks that someone made her brother lose his faith so she was taking it out on me. All I did was tell her that a religious television network isn't the place to get neutral science information.
And honestly, how dare you come up with such a ludicrous statement? I am shocked and appalled... ;) :evil:
Well... Hello there everyone... It is amazing how many people from the same threads will also frequent the same other threads... Translation: out of the regular posters on this thread (obviously, that we have seen thus far) I have seen roughly 90 to 95% of them on ther threads I frequent, and that is only a total of about 12 threads, ever! That may not make much sense, but, I know what I mean, and I find it amusing... Feel free to chuckle!
Now, to topic...
My religious history is mildly amusing, and quite convoluted... My father is Roman Catholic, plain and simple... My mother was born Jewish, but never practised, baptised Roman Catholic so she could get married in my father's church, and is now a self-affirmed Confusionist... I was baptised and had my first communion Roman Catholic, chose not to get confirmed, and came to terms with my atheism fully by the time I was 14... But that didn't stop me from leading Roman Catholic grace at the dinner table until I was nearly 16... (But, hey, it wasn't about god for me... it was about that it made my Dad happy, and that's what you do when your Daddy's Little Girl... it didn't even occur to me that it was weird, until someone asked me why I did it if I didn't believe in god... from that point on I didn't say grace anymore, and Daddy was disappointed in his little girl... But really, the fact of saying grace at a dinner table that consisted of my atheist self, my agnostic brother, my Confusionist mother, my atheist boyfriend, and my non-practicing Roman Catholic father was just a tad on the absurd side, ya think?)
I have no real recollection of how and when I came to terms with the fact that I don't believe in god... I think I always thought of it in a Santa Claus type way... I never had some big "Oh my goodness, there is no Santa Claus!" moment, and the same is true about god... I don't think I ever really bought it in the first place. I just knew that at some point you were supposed to stop pretending... Besides religion class in preparation for the first communion was unbearably boring, and really, there is only so much you can tolerate... ;) It was during college that I came to be able to put my reasoning into intelligible phrasing... It was also during college that I encountered the various looks that atheists are want to get from the 'enlightened' rest of the world... I think "Oooh, a challenge!" was always my favorite... But, the people that can put "You are going to h*ll, straight to h*ll, do not pass go, do NOT collect $200!" in a look still make me chuckle... It all comes down to assumptions for me... (See the movie, "A Long Kiss Goodnight" with Samuel L. Jackson and Geena Davis to hear what I like to say about assumptions...) I don't make them. Or, rather, I avoid them at all costs... And faith is just that, an assumption... No matter how far down you reason it (and trust me, I have heard it all, someone shoot Thomas Aquinas, please!) there is always a leap of faith involved in the idea of god, and I refuse to make it... Sorry, no dice!
Wow, that is nice to be able to say and not have to justify... Explain possibly... Disucss, I'm game! Kudos on the thread idea! Well played!

[ComicBookWorm]

Which I think is a rather good idea.

Well this is my first post in here, but I'm pretty sure I've read most of the thread. I'm basically wondering whether i actually am an Atheist or not. I don't claim to be Catholic (though I am confirmed (i.e can take the bread and wine at church)) unless of course it will get me out of work on a Sunday.

I most certainly do not believe everything that is written in the Bible. A lot of my Catholic friends (I have a few after 5 years of a strict Catholic Boarding school) believe it work for word. The Bible is fully of metaphorical stories, trying to help you through life (supposedly, or this could be another form of mind control :angel: ) but seriously, if you read the old testement there are some great stories I used to read as bed time stories (particularly the one of Joesph and his coat of many colours, his brothers end up selling him off, I think my brothers made me read that story......:rolleyes:)

My basic belief is that there are only 2 certainties in life, death and taxes. So you may as well try to not pay the taxman too much, and be good to people. Christians forget that particular commandment that says "Do unto others, as you would have them do unto you" which includes not trying to enforce your God onto others, cause you wouldn't like it either....

So am I an Athesist who merely enjoys the many holidays that Catholism brings? (you wouldn't believe the days we had off at school for our School's Saints Feast days!!!). Or am I merely a cynical Catholic who doesn't believe everything that I was told, and refuses to have my mind controlled...

On another point, while I'm typing... I am in admiration of you all, many try to fall back religon to try to sort through their problems with the world and in general. I honestly believe that Atheists much be particularly strong to be able to deal with these things themselves...
You could be agnostic. A lot of people aren't sure where their beliefs fit. Sometimes they eventually decide they are atheists, and sometimes they go back to being theists. And many stay just where they are in the middle as agnostics. All are equally valid choices depending on where your head is.

[Elder Granger]

I most certainly do not believe everything that is written in the Bible. A lot of my Catholic friends (I have a few after 5 years of a strict Catholic Boarding school) believe it work for word. The Bible is fully of metaphorical stories, trying to help you through life (supposedly, or this could be another form of mind control :angel: ) but seriously, if you read the old testement there are some great stories I used to read as bed time stories (particularly the one of Joesph and his coat of many colours, his brothers end up selling him off, I think my brothers made me read that story......:rolleyes:)
So am I an Athesist who merely enjoys the many holidays that Catholism brings? (you wouldn't believe the days we had off at school for our School's Saints Feast days!!!). Or am I merely a cynical Catholic who doesn't believe everything that I was told, and refuses to have my mind controlled...
I actually encountered this conundrum quite a bit in college... Having gone to a Catholic University (yeah, I know, what was I thinking?) I came across quite a few people that came to school avidly Catholic, and as they grew older began to open their eyes to some facts about the world, and systematically dismissed nearly all of their beliefs, but being in the environment we were, it wasn't exactly approved of to go around shouting that you no longer believed in god, they remain 'Catholic' in name only... Really, just to make themselves feel better about their crisis of faith, in my humble opinion. But the distinction they made was always based on three points... Believe in god? Check... Believe in Jesus? Check... Believe in transubstantiation (this is really the singular thing that distinguishes Catholiocism from the rest of Christianity)? Check... Phew! Still Catholic... It went something like that... Makes me a little skeptical of organized religion, but, hey, that's not why I am an atheist. (And, I know this may belong more in a different thread, but it answered a bunch of questions that were brought up here, so I figured it was applicable.)

[Byrum]

Having gone to a Catholic University (yeah, I know, what was I thinking?) I came across quite a few people that came to school avidly Catholic, and as they grew older began to open their eyes to some facts about the world, and systematically dismissed nearly all of their beliefs, but being in the environment we were, it wasn't exactly approved of to go around shouting that you no longer believed in god, they remain 'Catholic' in name only...
I remain Catholic in name, because basically I don't want any trouble. Okay there's the Catholic school, Catholic friends, Catholic family, Catholic extended family...so basically I don't go around telling people I am an atheist, and I more or less pretend to go along with it at school masses (well I make the decision to stick through it beforehand but about half way through I feel like I would kill everyone in the room if I thought it would get me out).

But I don't lie to people. If someone asks me if I'm an atheist, or even something as general as to what religion I belong I tell them. And they usually don't care (it's been discussed before that most Aussies aren't as religious, or openly religious, as some other countries). The point is I'm not going to shout my beleifs from the roof tops because it would annoy and aggravate people (besides I have the forums to vent my beleifs in ;)) but I'm not going to lie about it either. I haven't really had any problems with it. Some might say that I'm lying to myself being atheist and 'pretending' to be Christian, but I know exactly who I am and what I stand for, that suits me fine.

[ComicBookWorm]

I actually encountered this conundrum quite a bit in college... Having gone to a Catholic University (yeah, I know, what was I thinking?) I came across quite a few people that came to school avidly Catholic, and as they grew older began to open their eyes to some facts about the world, and systematically dismissed nearly all of their beliefs, but being in the environment we were, it wasn't exactly approved of to go around shouting that you no longer believed in god, they remain 'Catholic' in name only... Really, just to make themselves feel better about their crisis of faith, in my humble opinion. But the distinction they made was always based on three points... Believe in god? Check... Believe in Jesus? Check... Believe in transubstantiation (this is really the singular thing that distinguishes Catholiocism from the rest of Christianity)? Check... Phew! Still Catholic... It went something like that... Makes me a little skeptical of organized religion, but, hey, that's not why I am an atheist. (And, I know this may belong more in a different thread, but it answered a bunch of questions that were brought up here, so I figured it was applicable.)I think this is the place for that kind of discussion. The path that each of us took to get to atheism is different and it is interesting to share that.

I remain Catholic in name, because basically I don't want any trouble. Okay there's the Catholic school, Catholic friends, Catholic family, Catholic extended family...so basically I don't go around telling people I am an atheist, and I more or less pretend to go along with it at school masses (well I make the decision to stick through it beforehand but about half way through I feel like I would kill everyone in the room if I thought it would get me out).

But I don't lie to people. If someone asks me if I'm an atheist, or even something as general as to what religion I belong I tell them. And they usually don't care (it's been discussed before that most Aussies aren't as religious, or openly religious, as some other countries). The point is I'm not going to shout my beleifs from the roof tops because it would annoy and aggravate people (besides I have the forums to vent my beleifs in ;)) but I'm not going to lie about it either. I haven't really had any problems with it. Some might say that I'm lying to myself being atheist and 'pretending' to be Christian, but I know exactly who I am and what I stand for, that suits me fine.It's hard as a teen to go against the family beliefs. When you're older, it will be easier to establish your own identity. At that point you may be able to "come out". I don't usually volunteer that I am an atheist, because people start think I'm about to practice Satanism on them. I will come right out and tell them I'm Jewish because it nips a lot of embarrassing anti-semitic statements in the bud. I don't look Jewish and I have been privy to more accidental slip of anti-semitism than I care to endure. Making sure they know I'm Jewish stops them from them embarrassing themselves.

My atheism only comes out if they are probing my beliefs or if they are obnoxious and I want to be obnoxious too. I don't take being pushed very well.

[Nys]

You could be agnostic. A lot of people aren't sure where their beliefs fit. Sometimes they eventually decide they are atheists, and sometimes they go back to being theists. And many stay just where they are in the middle as agnostics. All are equally valid choices depending on where your head is.
What is the actual deffinition of Atheistism (I think that's how its spelt) Is it beleving that there isn't a God? Or is it simply not conforming to the strict guidlines of the different Churches?

I actually encountered this conundrum quite a bit in college... Having gone to a Catholic University (yeah, I know, what was I thinking?) I came across quite a few people that came to school avidly Catholic, and as they grew older began to open their eyes to some facts about the world, and systematically dismissed nearly all of their beliefs, but being in the environment we were, it wasn't exactly approved of to go around shouting that you no longer believed in god, they remain 'Catholic' in name only... Really, just to make themselves feel better about their crisis of faith, in my humble opinion. But the distinction they made was always based on three points... Believe in god? Check... Believe in Jesus? Check... Believe in transubstantiation (this is really the singular thing that distinguishes Catholiocism from the rest of Christianity)? Check... Phew! Still Catholic... It went something like that... Makes me a little skeptical of organized religion, but, hey, that's not why I am an atheist. (And, I know this may belong more in a different thread, but it answered a bunch of questions that were brought up here, so I figured it was applicable.)
The problem I have with most of my Catholic friends, is that they don't question anything, they firmly believe that Jesus walked on water, that Jonah survived being swallowed by a whale. These are things that I simply cannot/will not except as fact. I can see that there are morals to the story, but that's it...

Hmmm maybe I should have my own church that simply doesn't allow anything to be done of weekends, and has the most holidays out of all of the religon's :p

[ComicBookWorm]

Atheists don't believe in God. Agnostics aren't sure if God exists or not, but they have their doubts about God. There are those who believe in some form of God (or universal spirit) but not religion. We have a few people posting here who fall into that classification.

I like to think of this thread as a welcome place for people who don't align themselves with formal religion.

[Picko]

The problem I have with most of my Catholic friends, is that they don't question anything, they firmly believe that Jesus walked on water, that Jonah survived being swallowed by a whale. These are things that I simply cannot/will not except as fact. I can see that there are morals to the story, but that's it...

If Pinocchio can survive being swallowed by a whale then surely Jonah would have no problem doing the same :p

I wish I had something intelligent to say. Alas!

[ComicBookWorm]

If Pinocchio can survive being swallowed by a whale then surely Jonah would have no problem doing the same :p

I wish I had something intelligent to say. Alas!
But Pinocchio was made out of wood and could probably survive the digestive juices better than a human.

[Elder Granger]

But Pinocchio was made out of wood and could probably survive the digestive juices better than a human.
Yes, but the eternal question is... Does Pinocchio believe in god?
:rotfl: Sorry, couldn't resist!

[Nys]

Yes, but the eternal question is... Does Pinocchio believe in god?
:rotfl: Sorry, couldn't resist!
I think in Pinocchio's case... as it is in many people's (with telling lies and such) "I swear there aint no heaven, I pray there aint no hell" :p

Hmmm.... maybe I am agonistic, though that doesn't mean I can't support Atheists... :angel:

[ComicBookWorm]

I think in Pinocchio's case... as it is in many people's (with telling lies and such) "I swear there aint no heaven, I pray there aint no hell" :p

Hmmm.... maybe I am agonistic, though that doesn't mean I can't support Atheists... :angel:
You're welcome here.