Who Will fall in love with whom? v.42

[runitzandrew]

But the subplot we're discussing isn't a mystery subplot - it's a romance subplot. Also, I'm still not sure why H/H is so deep or surprising considering that so many people support it and have since the first book.
I didn't say it was a mystery sub-plot, I just said I think there's going to be a twist in favor of Harry/Hermione.

[SoObvious]

Ugg. Finally finnished reading all 14 pages of this new thread! *sigh* that took a while.

I think Harry/Hermione will be together. Someone told me this but i'm repeating it: JK doesn't play obvious and Ron/Hermione are obvious. So the twist would be Harry/Hermione being together instead of Ron/Hermione. For example: who actually thought while reading SS/PS that Snape was the good guy and was actually saving Harry? Snape was obviously the bad guy type - but JK twisted it making Quirrel the bad guy. Get it?




Well, Harmonians see Harry/Hermione as obvious so unless you're stating that JKR's going to pull a crazy shocker and match Harry with Pansy, then I don't think that that's what JK means. Also, I remember seeing someone say something about this a while back. And some people did forsee that Snape was innocent.

[delemtri]

I didn't say it was a mystery sub-plot, I just said I think there's going to be a twist in favor of Harry/Hermione.

What makes you think there's going to be a twist? The only plot twists are in the parts of the book which are intentionally mysterious.

[daz]

Here is a question for Herons??

Why dont you get that Hermione disliked Fleur from the get go.



......... How many people remeber JKRS interviews. Not many. Again only the internet people.

Because the interviews have nothing to do with the books. I did not know half the interviews she did before i came on this forum. Again 90% of fans could not tell you what she says in interviews.

I rewrote some of this post as it made no sense. :rotfl:

[Hannibal "Drax" Lecter]

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xray


Yikes! It's like political parties in parliament. Unfortunately, it looks like my party's in Opposition. :p

[delemtri]

Since this thread is being a little boring right now I figured I'd post something. Here's a short analysis of the letters Harry receives from Ron and Hermione during the summer of POA.


Dear Harry,
Happy birthday!
Look, I'm really sorry about that telephone call. I hope the Muggles didn't give you a hard time. I asked Dad, and he reckons I shouldn't have shouted.
It's amazing here in Egypt. Bill's taken us around all the tombs and you wouldn't believe the curses those old Egyptian wizards put on them. Mum wouldn't let Ginny come in the last one. There were all these mutant skeletons in there, of Muggles who'd broken in and grown extra heads and stuff.
I couldn't believe it when Dad won the Daily Prophet Draw. Seven hundred galleons! Most of it's gone on this trip, but they're going to buy me a new want for next year.
we'll be back about a week before term starts and we'll be going up to London to get my wand and our new books. Any chance of meeting you there?
Don't let the Muggles get you down!
Try and come to London,
Ron
P.S. Percy's Head Boy. He got the letter last week.

Dear Harry,
Ron wrote to me and told me about his phone call to your Uncle Vernon. I do hope you're all right.
I'm on holiday in France at the moment and I didn't know how I was going to send this to you - what if they'd opened it at customs? - but then Hedwig turned up! I think she wanted to make sure you got something for your birthday for a change. I bought your present by owl-order; there was an advertisement in the Daily Prophet (I've been getting it delivered; it's so good to keep up with what's going on in the wizarding world). Did you see that picture of Ron and his family a week ago? I bet he's learning loads. I'm really jealous - the ancient Egyptian wizards were fascinating.
There's some interesting local history of witchcraft here, too. I've rewritten my whole History of Magic essay to include some of the things I've found out. I hope it's not too long - it's two rolls of parchment more than Professor Binns asked for.
Ron says he's going to be in London in the last week of the holidays. Can you make it? Will your aunt and uncle let you come? I really hope you can. If not, I'll see you on the Hogwarts Express on September first!
Love from
Hermione
P.S. Ron says Percy's Head Boy. I bet Percy's really pleased. Ron doesn't seem too happy about it.


A few very notable things about this set of letters. Most stunning of all is the fact that Ron wrote to Hermione before he wrote to Harry - he must have simply written her a hello letter for the summer rather than timing it especially as he did for Harry's birthday. I won't spend too much time on Ron as it's really Hermione we're concerned with in this thread - who are we fooling? I could simply note the sheer number of times Hermione mentions Ron in her letter to Harry, including *beginning the letter with his name* and nearly expressing a wish to be with him in Egypt. Of course, there are possible H/H references in here as well - Hermione is worried about him (Ron was too) and wants to see him in London (Ron did too).

In GOF there are no letters - Harry is simply invited to the World Cup and ends up at the Burrow pretty quickly. In OOTP there are letters, but strangely enough the letters are always referred to as coming from "Ron and Hermione."

So what do we think? Is Hermione stuck on Ron without knowing it when she writes that letter? Or is there an alternate explanation?

Here is a question for Herons??

<snip>

All so fact 2.

Funny - I was expecting a question but got a "fact!" :D

Because the interviews have nothing to do with the books. I did not know half the interviews she did before i came on this forum. Again 90% of fans could not tell you what she says in interviews. Its just not important.

I don't see how this follows. In fact, if JKR said something *in secret* I'd take it seriously, even if only her one confidant had heard it. That's why the movies are quasi-canon: she tells the actors and the directors certain things about what's to come.

The question isn't whether or not they're widely read. The question is whether or not they're *true.* If we all agree JKR is telling the truth in interviews, they are clearly fair game.

[daz]

Here is a question for Herons??

Why dont you get that Hermione disliked Fleur from the get go.


There is the question?

[delemtri]

Here is a question for Herons??

Why dont you get that Hermione disliked Fleur from the get go.


There is the question?

Here's MY question: "Why don't you be a bit ruder?"

A less insulting question would be "Why do you think jealousy is involved in Hermione's dislike for Fleur?" Then we would actually get the impression that you respected our opinions.

[The Leprechaun]

It is a long black gun, in which we shoot stupid ideas with, *cough*h/hr*cough*d/hr*cough cough*

Harmony still has a chance (yes even I think this), but Dr/Hr does not. Please respect others ideas, argue what is canon and avoid making attacks against ships (as I am pretty sure that it is against the rules)

[daz]

Here's MY question: "Why don't you be a bit ruder?"

A less insulting question would be "Why do you think jealousy is involved in Hermione's dislike for Fleur?" Then we would actually get the impression that you respected our opinions.

I dont think my question was rude. I have been on this thread for ages now. And some Herons dont get the fact that Hermione just disliked Fleur. All so from what i rember from GOF. Fleur all so kissed Harry in the book and low and behold Hermione give Harry his first ever kiss.

[delemtri]

I dont think my question was rude. I have been on this thread for ages now. And some Herons dont get the fact that Hermione just disliked Fleur. All so from what i rember from GOF. Fleur all so kissed Harry in the book and low and behold Hermione give Harry his first ever kiss.

You're failing to see that us "not getting" something could simply be us holding a different and at least close to equally plausible opinion.

[Corbin Dallas]

Here's MY question: "Why don't you be a bit ruder?"

A less insulting question would be "Why do you think jealousy is involved in Hermione's dislike for Fleur?" Then we would actually get the impression that you respected our opinions.
Now Del, considering your tenure here I get it why you would bit a but hard but that's not how we Chocolateers behave, take a deep breath, have a piece of Chocolate and keep focused on OBHWF, get me ;) '-
Daz,
***I get it and you're right to a point about Hermione and fleur, Hermione did not care for the FACT, that Fleur laughed during DD's welcoming speech. What I find interesting is that Hermione pursued her dislike of fleur for no real good reason at all. Hermione was rude about Fleur when Fleur complained about the food and that was it. Fleur went on and on about how much better Beauxbatons was at the Ball but could care less.
Some things that stick out at me are these:
It was the girl from Beauxbatons who had laughed during Dumbledore's speech. She had finally removed her muffler. A long sheet of silvery-blonde hair fell almost to her waist. She had large, deep blue eyes, and very white, even teeth.
This Fleur's description in Goblet and here's Hermione's...
Then two girls appeared in the kitchen doorway behind Mrs. Weasley. One, with very bushy brown hair and rather large front teeth, was Harry's and Ron's friend, Hermione Granger.
***We also know from Chamber that Hermione's eyes are Brown. So we have a direct opposite description between Hermione and Fleur and I think this is no coincidence. also consider what is known about Fleur, she is Pretty, Confident, Powerful and Smart. These are all evident by her selection as Beauxbaton's Champion for the Tri-Wizard Tournament. What we know of Hermione is that she is not as confident as Fleur, or as attractive( do I really got to prove this point :eyebrows: ), but Hermione is smart and resourceful. what really stands out to me is that Hermione's venom realy lashes out to Fleur when Ron shows an interest or looks hopeful for a kiss or compliments Fleur on her english. So why? Has Fleur ever treated Hermione like Draco or Pansy or Rita has? No she hasn't infact after the second task, Fleur was down right nice. For me Hermione was jealous of Fleur because Fleur was the original Anti-Hermione, physically, and Ron's attentions towards Fleur sparked a response from Hermione. This is one of the things that tells me that Hermione does like Ron as more than a Friend. Get me ;) '-
CD

[delemtri]

Well posted, Corbin.

[daz]

Corbin.

I get you but i beg to differ. Sorry.

[Corbin Dallas]

Corbin.

I get you but i beg to differ. Sorry.
First thanks Del thanks :tu:
DAz is cool, understanding is a three-edged sword, There's my side, there's your side and then there's the truth, when the Series is over we'll have that, get me ;) '-
CD
Oh and Happy Christmas Eve, forgive my manners

[daz]

Corbin.

I hope to know which ship will set sail on the 17th of July.

And happy christmas and hope you have a great new year as well

[The Leprechaun]

I dont think my question was rude. I have been on this thread for ages now. And some Herons dont get the fact that Hermione just disliked Fleur. All so from what i rember from GOF. Fleur all so kissed Harry in the book and low and behold Hermione give Harry his first ever kiss.

We all know that she disliked Fleur, but we also say that she was possibly jealous when Fleur just smiled at Ron, especially since Fleur seemed to get much better after the Second Task. It may have not been, "just". Fleur actually gave both boys their first kisses.

[Walli9989]

hey guys i leave for a couple of hours and theyr are 5 more pages~!! so whats the topic for today?

[Ste619]

lol this is what the topic is about generally

I dont think my question was rude. I have been on this thread for ages now. And some Herons dont get the fact that Hermione just disliked Fleur. All so from what i rember from GOF. Fleur all so kissed Harry in the book and low and behold Hermione give Harry his first ever kiss.



We all know that she disliked Fleur, but we also say that she was possibly jealous when Fleur just smiled at Ron, especially since Fleur seemed to get much better after the Second Task. It may have not been, "just". Fleur actually gave both boys their first kisses.


is about Hermoines Jealousy Towards fleur for giving harry and ron thier 1st kisses

[Walli9989]

lol this is what the topic is about generally



is about Hermoines Jealousy Towards fleur for giving harry and ron thier 1st kisses
thanx!! i totally agree about the part about Hermione being jealouse towards Fleur kissing Ron but not so much Harry, i mean i think she used to have a thing for Harry but, as Ginny did, she moved on, so theyr mightv been a tiny speck of jealousy for Harry but mostly for Ron. Remember she and Ron had a huge shouting duel in the commonroom? im telling u in their case oppisites attract :D

[sergorat]

is about Hermoines Jealousy Towards fleur for giving harry and ron thier 1st kisses
I don't think that hr was jealous, but she disliked fleur kissing the boys, because it was fleur and not lavender or anybody else.

[Walli9989]

I don't think that hr was jealous, but she disliked fleur kissing the boys, because it was fleur and not lavender or anybody else.
so u dont think Hermione is getting with Ron or Harry?

come on guys there are 8 people in here and no 1 can comment on anything?

ok well since this topic is going nowhere how about a new topic. any1 have any opinions?

wow ok bye guys

[daz]

Well we all seem to be hooked on H/HR & R/HR. So want to talk about any other ships.

[The Leprechaun]

I don't think that hr was jealous, but she disliked fleur kissing the boys, because it was fleur and not lavender or anybody else.

Why would it matter to Hermione whether or not Harry or Ron get kissed by or kiss Fleur? It wouldn't necessarily unless she was jealous of Fleur's interest in one of the guys. Yes, she disliked Fleur, but she would still have no reason to get "Simply Furious" or to go and start "Scowling". Both reactions aren't indicative a dislike, they are either looks of jealousy or loathing, which Hermione has only really reserved for Draco, Rita, Umbridge, and maybe one or two others.

Well goodnight and happy shipping all.

[drdementor]

Hey, this is something I've talked about with another poster, but would anyone ever be interested in doing a 'Devil's Advocacy' version of this thread (or just posting 'Devil's Advocacy' in here for a while)? Basically, you'd state your alliegance, then argue as well as you can for the other side. It might be easier to start that on smaller ships, like ones involving Luna, rather than with Heron and Harmony. I thought it would be fun to give it a shot.

[Walli9989]

Well we all seem to be hooked on H/HR & R/HR. So want to talk about any other ships.
hey guys! im back any1 have any opinions on the Luna/Harry ship? or how about Neville and Ginny? i like the idea of Ginny and Neville getting together espessially after Neville gets his own wand and hopefully becomes stronger

Hey, this is something I've talked about with another poster, but would anyone ever be interested in doing a 'Devil's Advocacy' version of this thread (or just posting 'Devil's Advocacy' in here for a while)? Basically, you'd state your alliegance, then argue as well as you can for the other side. It might be easier to start that on smaller ships, like ones involving Luna, rather than with Heron and Harmony. I thought it would be fun to give it a shot.
ok ill start
Luna and Harry should deffinatly get together, first of all because Harry says he is comfortable around her

[drdementor]

I suggest either trying H/G or H/L, unless the Harmony shippers have a major objection to that. We could just pretend that Hermione decides to be a nun and found an order devoted to House Elf Advocacy, so Harry has to find someone else. Or we could try H/G, N/G, for a different twist.

[Walli9989]

I suggest either trying H/G or H/L, unless the Harmony shippers have a major objection to that. We could just pretend that Hermione decides to be a nun and found an order devoted to House Elf Advocacy, so Harry has to find someone else. Or we could try H/G, N/G, for a different twist.
ok then how about Ginny and Neville?

[MrsRiddle]

Guys...Ron's gonna die (spurring Harry into his epic final duel with Voldy) so Harry ends up, unwittingly or not, with Hermione in the end :)

[Walli9989]

Guys...Ron's gonna die (spurring Harry into his epic final duel with Voldy) so Harry ends up, unwittingly or not, with Hermione in the end :)
lol i dont think jk would kill off 1 of the best characters :p

[MrsRiddle]

lol i dont think jk would kill off 1 of the best characters :p

*sigh* oh well...lets hope not, but something tells me its increasingly likely. Anyhow I hope JK brings Ron and Hermione together in a loving embrace before Ron dies :eyebrows:

[Walli9989]

*sigh* oh well...lets hope not, but something tells me its increasingly likely. Anyhow I hope JK brings Ron and Hermione together in a loving embrace before Ron dies :eyebrows:
aww but then poor Luna is left alone without Ron there Hermione will get with Harry and Luna will be all alone :sad:
lol ok i really hope that doesnt happen

[Deevo]

Whoah, fifteen pages to wade through, just as well I've got a few hours to spare. Apologies if some of these are a bit far back or if some of this is a bit disjointed. I'll do my best to keep things in some sort of order here.

Firstly let me reiterate that I find both the Ron / Hermione and the Harry / Ginny ships to be the most likely mainly because I personally feel that both couples are well met and complimentary. Having said that I'm not going to slash my wrists if it doesn't happen as I have great faith in Jo's storytelling ability.

OK, Time to address what's been going on while I've been at work. Sheesh, you lot have been busier than I have today. :evil:

yes but how come no one said anything when I compared sirius and draco in family background.
But Sirius and Malfoy are extremely different - Sirius has a strong character and hated his family (aside from Tonks's mother) and their ways so much he ran away. Malfoy, on the other hand, is, to put it kindly, a weakling and wants very much to impress and be accepted by his family.
More like Sirius' brother than Sirius I would have thought.

Malfoy may not love his family. Hence another reason for him to betray them.
Actually I'm developing a theory on that but it really doesn't belong in this thread, or any other I've seen yet. Got some searching to do before I put it forward.

do you have any proof that he does not love his family? he tries to impress them, they are impressed with the dark side... also- what about the fact that Malfoy wants hermione dead?
We know he respects his father actually it seems like he fears him but there is room to doubt if he actually loves him. On the other hand he appears to love his mother (GOF when he quickly takes exception at comments made about her) and it seems to be reciprocated (as in the special treats and extra food not to mention the fact she didn't want him to attend Durmstrang).

I want hermione dead too. So I can have Malfoy all to myself. But JK said she won't put me in the book. *pout*
:lol:

I do admit I have a soft spot for Harry/Ginny. Ginny's a good listener, which Harry needs. She's also lighthearted enough that she'd be able to take Harry out of his spouts of depression while she would still understand them after her eventful first year at Hogwarts. Beside that, Harry wants to be a part of the weasley family, and this would make it official. And Harry may just be the one guy Ron wouldn't mind seeing his sister with, even if he would comment on it being squicky.
Squicky, what's that? I guess I'm showing my age again. :)

And I agree with you about Harry and Ginny, they just seem to be so well suited IMO.

Wow. This page has drastically changed since the last time I was here. What happend to the valid arguments with the thousand-word posts used to back up points?

Oh well...
Well they were mostly going round in circles. :)

I think now that people have a definite date (16/7/2005) for their ships to sail, sink or at least make a final boarding call a lot of the debate has cooled off just a tad. Add to that there seems to be a fair number of somewhat ... far fetched ... not to mention undebatable ships being proposed though I doubt that many of these are serious.

My mom said to tell you that these are all characters. They are not real. What they do is not going to affect your stock in Wall Street.
Unless you are a Warner Bros or Bloomsbury shareholder. :p

Re-Reading OoTP. Ginny is definately developing a personality in line with Harry's own, isn't she? She's challenging authority, becoming a more powerful witch, learning to break rules without crossing lines, and standing up for herself. I don't know so much that it's her losing her crush on Harry as it is getting over the hero worship. It's hard to hero worship a guy that lives in the same place as you, and constantly gets in trouble alongside your brother and your friend. Getting comfortable around Harry has changed how we see Ginny--now lets see if it changes how Harry does.
Well said, I couldn't agree more. The hints have been there for a while but I feel that OOTP has definately expanded on her character and even if Harry doesn't seem to be rushing into a romantic relationship with her he seems to have gained a lot of respect for her. I don't think that Harry sees Ginny just as Ron's little sister anymore.

That and Bonnie is really cute. :eyebrows:

The times Harry is compared to James directly relates to his looks, sense of adventure, courage, and good heart. He is never compared to James as a romantic character. I am not saying that Harry is not a reflection of his father (because he is) but I am saying that when it comes to romance, Hermione and Ron can be seen in Lily and James. This makes sense b/c Hermione and Ron are Harry's new family (in a sense taking the place, but not replacing, his parents)
I'm not sure that this is mentioned specifically in the books, I'll have to sit down and read POA again to be sure, but in the film Lupin mentions that despite his resembelance to his father he was more like his mother in personality. Come to think of it from what we saw of fifteen year old James in Snape's worst memory I don't think Harry is much like James at all, at least James at his age. It'd be interesting to find out just how and when James changed to the point where Lily became attracted to him.

Actually, it is. But still, Hermione's just fine around unicorns anywho. (Goblet of Fire.) She just doesn't find a 4-legged man to be sexy. I mean, all the girls were going nuts over Firenze, but can you imagine one of them marrying him and attempting to have kids?
I really didn't need that thought running around in my head thanks. :scared:

***We also know from Chamber that Hermione's eyes are Brown. So we have a direct opposite description between Hermione and Fleur and I think this is no coincidence. also consider what is known about Fleur, she is Pretty, Confident, Powerful and Smart. These are all evident by her selection as Beauxbaton's Champion for the Tri-Wizard Tournament. What we know of Hermione is that she is not as confident as Fleur, or as attractive( do I really got to prove this point :eyebrows: ), but Hermione is smart and resourceful. what really stands out to me is that Hermione's venom realy lashes out to Fleur when Ron shows an interest or looks hopeful for a kiss or compliments Fleur on her english. So why? Has Fleur ever treated Hermione like Draco or Pansy or Rita has? No she hasn't infact after the second task, Fleur was down right nice. For me Hermione was jealous of Fleur because Fleur was the original Anti-Hermione, physically, and Ron's attentions towards Fleur sparked a response from Hermione. This is one of the things that tells me that Hermione does like Ron as more than a Friend. Get me ;) '-
Good point well made.

Oh, or this changes everything (http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-khayes01.shtml) - A Ron / Hermione editorial.

[Corbin Dallas]

*sigh* oh well...lets hope not, but something tells me its increasingly likely. Anyhow I hope JK brings Ron and Hermione together in a loving embrace before Ron dies :eyebrows:
NO No No the only one of the Trio who will die will be Harry, it's the only way for him to vanquish Riddle, at least at this point it seems that ways, get me ;) '-
CD

[daz]

for some reason i think if a Wesley will die it may be ginny. I think there is more to what happend in COS. So i think Ginny may be a weak link againest voldie.

[TnK]

lol i dont think jk would kill off 1 of the best characters :p


totally.... wait where'd sirius go?

[Walli9989]

totally.... wait where'd sirius go?
true but i honestly dont think hes dead, i just think hes behind that veil, at least im hoping :sad:

[MrsRiddle]

for some reason i think if a Wesley will die it may be ginny. I think there is more to what happend in COS. So i think Ginny may be a weak link againest voldie.

Can our Ginny be classed by JK as a 'major character'? Dunno. JK says 'a major character' will die :upset:
I am still sticking by my original train of thought...dark horse Ginny becomes a Death Eater and goes over to the Evil Side

[Walli9989]

speaking of Sirius, do u think he would have ended up with any1?

[MrsRiddle]

true but i honestly dont think hes dead, i just think hes behind that veil, at least im hoping :sad:

DD has been quoted as saying Sirius has snuffed it. Cant remember...JK might have also said he's snuffed it too

[Corbin Dallas]

for some reason i think if a Wesley will die it may be ginny. I think there is more to what happend in COS. So i think Ginny may be a weak link againest voldie.
Well if Jo decided she was going the LOTR route way back when she first started out then I agree Daz, I think we should be prepaired for both Harry and Ginny to die inorder to destroy Voldemort as both have had him inside their heads, get me ;) '-
CD

[Walli9989]

Can our Ginny be classed by JK as a 'major character'? Dunno. JK says 'a major character' will die :upset:
I am still sticking by my original train of thought...dark horse Ginny becomes a Death Eater and goes over to the Evil Side
i h8 to admit it but i think the major character might be Harry :upset: :upset: how else is he going to defeat Voldy, maybe thats why jk killed Sirius first, so taht they could all (James, Liliy, Sirius, Harry) coud finally be together :upset: , but that would be a really sucky ending, id be depressed if it ended that way

[TnK]

speaking of Sirius, do u think he would have ended up with any1?
Nah, he was to dangerous and ready for action to settle down with a wife and such. Plus he was still a convicted murderer and escaped convict still at large, he'd find it difficult to go lookin for that special someone. Even if his name was cleared, people still wouldn't trust him.


AND yes i'm pretty sure he's dead, gone, chopped into little diced cubes and thrown away from the HP series. Sure his name will still be echoed by those of the books, but don't count on him making it into any more books as an actual LIVING character

[Walli9989]

AND yes i'm pretty sure he's dead, gone, chopped into little diced cubes and thrown away from the HP series. Sure his name will still be echoed by those of the books, but don't count on him making it into any more books as an actual LIVING character
:upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset: :upset:

[drdementor]

Okay, so I'll go first.

Info: I'm playing a game with whoever cares to join me called 'Devil's Advocacy' involving the H/G ships and G/N ships. I ship Chocolate in 'reality,' but for today I'll be posting as if I'm the most avid G/N shipper in fandom. To play the game, please be sincere and avoid strawman arguments...really try to get into the spirit of this game! Other people who are NOT playing the game can respond to my posts in the usual 'shipper' way. Those playing the game, I think it would be easier if we did not use Heron/Harmony arguments to back up our points 'eg, no saying 'Well, Harry's marrying Hermione, so of course Ginny is marrying Neville!'. Anyone not playing the game can of course talk about Heron and Harmony all they want to.

So, now the post:


Why it's not a problem that Ginny and he haven't started dating yet

After going to the Ball with Neville, it is true that Ginny dated Michael Corner, but it is important to remember that Neville and Ginny were going to the ball as friends, not potential romantic partners. Neville asked Hermione out, and Ginny wanted to go with Harry at the time, but Hermione did her two friends the favor of setting them up with each other so that Neville would have a date and so Ginny could get to go to the Ball. They didn't see the Ball as a romantic date with each other, but just as a way to dance and have a good time. And Neville did dance (badly), and he needn't have stayed over the holiday if he didn't want to go to the dance at all. If Harry had had his choice, he would have avoided the Ball completely.

Neville: a potentially excellent boyfriend

To my mind, this implies that Neville has more 'boyfriend' potential than either Harry or Ron. Harry was forced to go to the dance by McGonagall. Ron went in support of his friend. They both hated it. Harry danced one, obligatory dance with his date, and Ron did not dance at all. Neville at least tried. Girls like going to dances, or at least dancing when there is the opportunity. It is not very enjoyable to have to force your date to dance with you, or to have him lurk by the snack table the entire time. It is not particularly enjoyable to have your feet stepped on, but you do at least get the opportunity to dance and try to feel like a princess (the entire goal of formal Balls). The fact that Neville sought a partner for the Ball and that he danced at it shows that he would not be afraid to try other romantic things. If he were in a relationship, I think that Neville would try doing a lot of things the girl might want him to do, such as remembering Valentine's Day, giving flowers, etc. I think that in the 'romance' field, Neville may be ahead of clueless Harry and blundering Ron. I think that Jo has written him that way for a reason: we ought to get to SEE Neville's romance, because it would be an amusing comparison to Harry's or to Ron's. It would be a good contrast, and would be funny because Neville is usually the worst at subjects, and he would be the best boyfriend in Gryffindor. How can we see Neville's romance? Easy: if he is paired up with a main character.

Ginny and Neville: complementary personalities

Ginny and Neville complement each other well. Ginny is outspoken, while Neville tends to be more quiet and observant. They both are good at standing up for each other. They are not opposites, but they could function well as a couple. I imagine their relationship would look a lot like Molly and Arthur's. Ginny would be the one generally running things, reprimanding the kids, etc. But when Neville does have something to say, he can be very brave. Neville's leaping toward Malfoy, Crabbe, and Goyle in OotP reminded me a lot of Arthur leaping on Lucius Malfoy in CoS. Foreshadowing, perhaps? These are two generally quiet men who really lose it when their families are maligned. Ginny, though, is not just a little hot-tempered spunky redhead. She is perceptive, as shown in the libarary scene with Harry. She is kind; she clearly became better friends with Luna through the course of the book. She has suffered a lot (in CoS). She is resourceful and helpful. And if there's anyone I think Neville would be willing to open up to about his parents, I think it's Ginny. Ginny has had her own problems thanks to Voldemort and co., and she knows how the mind can be hurt far more than the body. It doesn't seem like Ginny's ever really opened up to people about her Chamber experience, either...she coldly reminded Harry of it and described it because he was worried he, too, was being possessed, but she's never said how that affected her later years. I think seeing Neville's parents in St Mungo's may have made Ginny think more about the mind and its frailty. She was mentally tortured by Voldemort when she was just a little girl. So Neville might see her as someone who could really sympathise with his parents and his family. Neville, too, is very perceptive of other people's emotions and situations (his question to Harry about Sirius, for example), and I think that Neville could help support Ginny as she supports him.

Additionally, both Ginny and Neville have been hurt by Death Eaters. Malfoy is the one who gave Ginny that diary in the first place, and of course the Lestranges are the ones who drove Neville's parents mad.

Ginny and Neville's schoolwork

Ginny has never been in any of Neville's classes. While I'm sure she's heard stories about Neville, he would still feel less worried that she writes him off as inept. She does not see him that way at all. Neville's and Ginny's bravery in the DoM will at least lead them into being better friends, and I think certainly shows worth in each other's eyes.

Neville does not seem to have a lot of fun. He is a quiet person naturally, I think, but I also think he may be so withdrawn just because he doesn't have anyone to make him go do some outside things or to laugh with him. He has his toad and his plant, but what else does he do? Ginny could certainly come up with some ideas, as she's quite mischievous.

Currently, Ginny has said she has her eye on Dean Thomas. But perhaps she will end up instead with the boy who took her to the Yule Ball. As she and Neville become closer friends, watch to see if there's maybe more than just friendship developing!

[MrsRiddle]

Nah, he was to dangerous and ready for action to settle down with a wife and such. Plus he was still a convicted murderer and escaped convict still at large, he'd find it difficult to go lookin for that special someone. Even if his name was cleared, people still wouldn't trust him.


AND yes i'm pretty sure he's dead, gone, chopped into little diced cubes and thrown away from the HP series. Sure his name will still be echoed by those of the books, but don't count on him making it into any more books as an actual LIVING character

If he was still alive, he and Madam Omerta from the Three Brooksticks would have made a nice couple :blush:

[TnK]

If he was still alive, he and Madam Omerta from the Three Brooksticks would have made a nice couple :blush:
I suppose you're right, she did seem like she had some spunk to her...

I need the book for this but i don't have it so i'm just gonna go with what i think i can remember. Didn't sirius flirt or hit on her when he was at school with james? or am i completely off in left field all by my lonesome?

[MrsRiddle]

I suppose you're right, she did seem like she had some spunk to her...

I need the book for this but i don't have it so i'm just gonna go with what i think i can remember. Didn't sirius flirt or hit on her when he was at school with james? or am i completely off in left field all by my lonesome?

Cant remember...don't think so. Could be wrong. Maybe he did. He seems the type to like spunky curvacious ladies who serve up a mean pint of hot butterbeer. Poor guy...its a shame he's gone...and he was on the verge of softening up and becoming a nice guy again

[Walli9989]

i totally agree drdementor. im hoping when Neville gets his new wand he'll become stronger wich will give him the confidence he needs to start having a relationship. what i mean by 'Neville getting stronger' is that remember "the wand chooses the wizard"? Well Nevilles wand belonged to his father and then it broke, so u never now what will happen when Neville gets a new wand

Cant remember...don't think so. Could be wrong. Maybe he did. He seems the type to like spunky curvacious ladies who serve up a mean pint of hot butterbeer. Poor guy...its a shame he's gone...and he was on the verge of softening up and becoming a nice guy again
ya he was getting nicer wasnt he? why did jk have to kill him, she couldv killed ne1 else :sad:

[lightinthedark]

ive often seen people with notes in thre signature saying " will hermione n harry ever date ?" then jk saying no? does anyone have proof this is true although we dont need it
Hermione n Ron 4eva woot! :love:

[TnK]

ya he was getting nicer wasnt he? why did jk have to kill him, she couldv killed ne1 else :sad:

She had to screw Harry up just a bit more. Before Sirius's death, he was only "Unstable"... NOW he's "Severely Jacked Up", and trust me, NOW he's ready to fully unleash his hate and anger... this 7th book is gonna rock my socks.

[Walli9989]

She had to screw Harry up just a bit more. Before Sirius's death, he was only "Unstable"... NOW he's "Severely Jacked Up", and trust me, NOW he's ready to fully unleash his hate and anger... this 7th book is gonna rock my socks.
i guess so, but now Harry has nothing, i guess this really means Harrys gonna die, but u never now, some other lost family member might pop up and take him in or maybe Petunia will turn out to be a witch or something or maybe a Squib and finally accept Harry lol ya right thats never going to happen

[Corbin Dallas]

ive often seen people with notes in thre signature saying " will hermione n harry ever date ?" then jk saying no? does anyone have proof this is true although we dont need it
Hermione n Ron 4eva woot! :love:
Yes in 1999 Jo gave an interview , here's the link...
http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/1099-pressclubtransc.html
it's the last question she answers for the interview...
CD

[MrsRiddle]

i guess so, but now Harry has nothing, i guess this really means Harrys gonna die, but u never now, some other lost family member might pop up and take him in or maybe Petunia will turn out to be a witch or something or maybe a Squib and finally accept Harry lol ya right thats never going to happen

Harry has yet to prove his true worth to himself and everyone else and show exactly why he is the "boy who lived". I think he'll win the heart of a girl and beat Voldy and then settle down and live happy ever after.
If JK decides to write a book 8 at some point in the future, she'll need to keep Harry on

[stic]

Melcb98 wrote: Look at the context of that statement. Harry didn't get girls, Hermione notes that Harry is not worse then Ron. Why would Hermione care to mention Ron here, hmmm?? Hmmm, why would she mention Ron? Maybe because everytime she thinks about thickness and misinterpretation of behaviour the name Ron crosses her mind?

As in Ron not getting that she's not interested in him? :huh:
I completely miss any flirty excitement of Hermione towards Ron. When for example in GoF Hermione had found out about Dobby working at Hogwarts she didn't grab Ron and told him: "Hah, smart guy! Wanna see a house-elf who likes his freedom and regular payment???" :eyebrows:

No, she instead literally grabbed Harry bursting with excitement and dragged him down to the Hogwarts kitchen:
GoF, p.373"Harry!" she panted, skidding to a halt beside him (the Fat Lady stared down at her, eyebrows raised). "Harry, you've got to come- you've got to come, the most amazing thing's happened-please-"
She seized Harry's arm and started to drag him back along the corridor. What's even better is Jo wrote the scene of Harry entering the kitchen with noteworthy similiarities to Harry entering Grimmauld Place 12 in OotP: He had one brief glimpse of an enormous, high-ceilinged room (...) when something small hurtled toward him from the middle of the room, squealing, "Harry potter, sir! Harry Potter!
Next second all the wind had been knocked out of him as the squealing elf hut him hard in the midriff (...)
Dobby let go and stepped back a few paces, beaming up at Harry
The same opening with the short glimpse of the room, the excited squeal, calling Harry's name twice, the tackling hug, the release and beaming;
just like Hermione in OotP.
Striking parallels in attitude, and we know Harry Potter is Dobby's most beloved person in the world.

PS: "The Plot Thickens" fanbook on #27 of the Amazon.co.uk Sales Rank :clap:

[TnK]

i guess so, but now Harry has nothing, i guess this really means Harrys gonna die, but u never now, some other lost family member might pop up and take him in or maybe Petunia will turn out to be a witch or something or maybe a Squib and finally accept Harry lol ya right thats never going to happen
Harry has the Weasley family. It's not certain that he's going to die, i don't think JK would go for "The Matrix" style ending, she's to clever for that. ANYHOO as for the topic, i don't think Harry will end up with anyone, unless it's after he graduates. Ron and Hermione will OBVIOUSLY get together. Chances are they probably already are.

[Walli9989]

Harry has yet to prove his true worth to himself and everyone else and show exactly why he is the "boy who lived". I think he'll win the heart of a girl and beat Voldy and then settle down and live happy ever after.
If JK decides to write a book 8 at some point in the future, she'll need to keep Harry on
lets just hope.
It would be kewl if there were more than 7 books, but i thought jk said somewhere that there was only going to be 7? or did i just imagine that :huh: errm i cant remember

[TnK]

No, she instead literally grabbed Harry bursting with excitement and dragged him down to the Hogwarts kitchen:

Hermione grabbed Harry because she found out that Dobby was working at Hogwarts, as Dobby has no storyline with Ron, why would she have any inclination to pull Ron?

The same opening with the short glimpse of the room, the excited squeal, calling Harry's name twice, the tackling hug, the release and beaming;
just like Hermione in OotP.


She does this because she's both surprised that Harry is there, and worried that he might get expelled... Girls being more affectionate would hug their true friends in circumstances like these.

[Walli9989]

i have to agree with Tnk_Orbital, prob because im all for Heron!

wow we're already at 500!! and this thread started yesturday!!

lol my bad 460

[stic]

TnK_Orbital wrote:Hermione grabbed Harry because she found out that Dobby was working at Hogwarts, as Dobby has no storyline with Ron, why would she have any inclination to pull Ron?And Ron lay forgotten by Hermione as usual, and when he attempted to bicker she ignored him. Hmmmm. :huh:

Ron had in OotP a "storyline" with Quidditch but when he made the team Hermione simply said "I'm pleased" and nodded off. :rotfl:
And when Harry had woken her up and she had given him all her attention and concentration she didn't try to make up to Ron for the lack of attention she had given him that evening. Nope, she was undeniably glad she had an opportunity to leave Ron's party, she had no interest in hanging around there.
What she had a huge interest in was getting Harry to join her for knitting more elf-hats.

She does this because she's both surprised that Harry is there, and worried that he might get expelled... Girls being more affectionate would hug their true friends in circumstances like theseThen pleaese compare Hermione's uber-reaction with Ron's or the twins' or Ginny's (respectively the great lack thereof).
It totally stands out. And it parallels Dobby's uber-reaction in GoF. :tu:

PS: "The Plot Thickens" fanbook on #27 of the Amazon.co.uk Sales Rank :clap:

[delemtri]

Ron had in OotP a "storyline" with Quidditch but when he made the team Hermione simply said "I'm pleased" and nodded off. :rotfl:

And brought it up to Harry the first opportunity she got.

PS: "The Plot Thickens" fanbook on #27 of the Amazon.co.uk Sales Rank :clap:

Heard you the first time. Congrats.

[Corbin Dallas]

Ron had in OotP a "storyline" with Quidditch but when he made the team Hermione simply said "I'm pleased" and nodded off.
Evidence suggests that Fred and George spiked her drink, but as your in the Fanbook you should be aware of New Clues where this topic was discussed and like Del said, she brings it up coming out of her nap.
What she had a huge interest in was getting Harry to join her for knitting more elf-hats.
I don't think even Hermione would consider Knitting a "Date", as many Harmony's have suggested :evil: , and I guess when she doesn't want to be rude, hermione cares more for what other people think as oppossed to her Best Friend, and probable LI, would, sure :evil:
The Dobby/Hermione juxta is great, Dobby loves Harry but has no intent on Snogging Harry, not that anyone anywhere can find :evil: so i think we can say the same for Hermione then using Dobby as a model, again great Juxta Stic :tu:
oh as to the People who think that there's a problem with Red-Heads ie Ron and Ginny (Harmonians really), mentioning it because I found this very interesting...

At the Edinburgh Book Festival yesterday it turned out she had settled for the next best thing - out have gone the trademark long red hair and pallid face, in have come a brown-blonde bob and a lightly sunkissed look, bequest of a recent foreign holiday.
a description of Jo here's the link
http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/0899-herald-johnstone.htm
No wonder Jo likes Red-Heads,

[stic]

delemtri wrote: And brought it up to Harry the first opportunity she got. And dropped the subject immediataly again.To talk about things she really cares about: OotP, p. 249"Oh, Harry, it's you... good about Ron isn't it?" she said blearily. "I'm just so - so - so tired," she yawned. "I was up until one o' clock making more hats. They're disappearing like mad!"

Jo made very clear: Hermione sacrifices sleep for S.P.E.W. but not for a rare moment of Ron's glory. :huh:

Epiphany, are you there? Been a long time.

[TnK]

TnK_Orbital wrote:And Ron lay forgotten by Hermione as usual, and when he attempted to bicker she ignored him. Hmmmm. :huh: Hermione's not stupid, she knows when to bicker and when to not, apparently Dobby working at hogwarts was big enough to squelch this bickering. Plus the fact that she was involved in the SPEW campaign at the time, she was eager to get to the house elves, and again, dragging Harry because of the Dobby thing.

Ron had in OotP a "storyline" with Quidditch but when he made the team Hermione simply said "I'm pleased" and nodded off. :rotfl:
And when Harry had woken her up and she had given him all her attention and concentration she didn't try to make up to Ron for the lack of attention she had given him that evening. She fell asleep because she was making hats till 1:00 in the morning... WITHOUT Harry, and this is what she said RIGHT when Harry woke her up. "Oh, Harry, it's you.... Good about Ron isn't it?" that's how it is in the book, i had to get it out because i had no clue what you were talking about lol.


Nope, she was undeniably glad she had an opportunity to leave Ron's party, she had no interest in hanging around there.
When does Hermione ever stay up for parties? It's not simply just with Ron's party. Plus she was uber tired... or.. "exhausted" in her words.

What she had a huge interest in was getting Harry to join her for knitting more elf-hats. You might have a point here, but we don't know for sure that she hadn't asked Ron first and he simply denied her as well. Maybe she didn't even ask Ron, does he seem like the type to knit some elf hats?

Then pleaese compare Hermione's uber-reaction with Ron's or the twins' or Ginny's (respectively the great lack thereof).
It totally stands out. And it parallels Dobby's uber-reaction in GoF. :tu:I said girls are more affectionate, i should've stated that they are more affectionate than boys in most cases. Ron and Harry being both 15, would feel awkward hugging each other to say the least. The twins aren't really friends, like Ron and Hermione are, so they don't count... i don't think. Now, Ginny is a girl but she's a bit Tom-boyish, and she's gotten over her crush on Harry. She won't really be rushing to hug him for no good reason. Hermione does get somewhat dramatic at times... I think this whole, running to hug Harry was one of these times.

[Corbin Dallas]

delemtri wrote: And dropped the subject immediataly again.To talk about things she really cares about: OotP, p. 249

Jo made very clear: Hermione sacrifices sleep for S.P.E.W. but not for a rare moment of Ron's glory. :huh:

Epiphany, are you there? Been a long time.
Then manages to kiss Ron before his First Game, then after Harry's off the team, she continues to schedule Ron's practices, comment Ron might do better without Fred and George around and actually Placates Ron physically when she tells Ron she missed his big moment. then Ron and Hermione agree that Hagrid's gone around the Bin because of Grawp. still interesting that Hermione would say that Ron's goalkeeping may not be the source of her happiness, but she still cares enough to stay aware, almost interested despite the fact Harry is off the team and sulking :evil: , get me ;) '-
CD

[stic]

Corbin Dallas wrote: Evidence suggests that Fred and George spiked her drink And canon proofs that Hermione had been up until one o'clock making more hats (OotP) even when she had her regular school work to do.
If Hermione had really had a true interest in Ron and his party and her drink had been maliciously spiked with a sleeping draught, it would be logic for her after she woke up to try and (over-)compensate to Ron for her lack of attention on his great night.But instead : "Oh no," said Hermione, looking relieved, "if you're going that means I can go, too, without being rude."

I don't think even Hermione would consider Knitting a "Date", as many Harmony's have suggested I didn't even go there. My point was that Hermione couldn't have cared any less about Ron and his party without appearing downright "rude" to Ron, while the topic S.P.E.W in combination with Harry easily managed to make her face "shine with glee".
The Dobby/Hermione juxta is great, Dobby loves Harry but has no intent on Snogging Harry "I am Jack's complete lack of surprise."
Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk :)

Then manages to kiss Ron before his First Game A desperate move to help someone who's on his way to get slaughtered, IMO.

[CornedBee]

stic, since you seem to be the best-arguing Harmony poster around here, would you take a look at the post linked in my sig and tell me what you think about it?

[Corbin Dallas]

Corbin Dallas wrote: And canon proofs that Hermione had been (OotP) even when she had her regular school work to do.
If Hermione had really had a true interest in Ron and his party and her drink had been maliciously spiked with a sleeping draught, it would be logic for her after she woke up to try and (over-)compensate to Ron for her lack of attention on his great night.But instead : "Oh no," said Hermione, looking relieved, "if you're going that means I can go, too, without being rude."

I didn't even go there. My point was that Hermione couldn't have cared any less about Ron and his party without appearing downright "rude" to Ron, while the topic S.P.E.W in combination with Harry easily managed to make her face "shine with glee".
"I am Jack's complete lack of surprise."
Fight Club, Chuck Palahniuk :)
And Canon proved that Mad eye was attacked but the one we saw through Goblet wasn't him, funny how there were clues to that, I like how you think the clues only point to a red-herring with R/Hr but anything that might suggest otherwise, like the idea that Fred and George would get Hermione back for the Molly threat is not possible because canon gives us something that never affected Hermione before, think helping Harry in Goblet with the Accio Charm. Yet at the party we see her reaction to being asleep the same as the first years that F & G tested the Fainting Fancies on, again you know all this, or should, I read your Snape theory of Occlumeny at New clues so I know you're no stranger there.
Yes knitting and how good Hermione got at something without reading a book wouldn't possibly make Hermione's face shine with Glee, it must be that boy, because Hermione's life is all about Harry, not SPEW, or OWLs or anyone else :evil: as to it being a "date" it's called a Head-me-off, address it before you because that's where others have treid to go, see I'm no newbie to this at all and I don't mean my short time here Stic, get me ;) '-
A desperate move to help someone who's on his way to get slaughtered, IMO.
Ahh yes, when she could have easly walked with the both of them to the Pitch and talked to him to keep him from noticing the badges, funny her first instinct is to Kiss Ron instead of sensibly talk to him, funny that :evil: , oh and I love now how you think she's desperate, very nice :tu: [obvious Sarcasm/]
CD
Fight Club: Great Movie, i need to read the book :tu: :cool: :tu:

[yxs]

Oh, I see this thread has turned into one big Heron-fest... scary, scary

[GeorgeWeasley]

I've noticed that this thread has turned into a big heron-fest too! I haven't posted here in a LONG time, and I come back, and I find a lack of Harmony/Heron arguments! Sad!

Oh well. Back to lurking.

[McBeth]

I have a question for whomever Harmonians are here - do you debate anything other than Heron vs. Harmony very often?

[rowansjet]

How about for the next few pages, we never mention the name Hermione, debating just Harry/Luna vs Ron/Luna, and Harry/Ginny vs Neville/Ginny?

If anyone wants to, we'll have to advertise this: No Hermione!

[McBeth]

How about for the next few pages, we never mention the name Hermione, debating just Harry/Luna vs Ron/Luna, and Harry/Ginny vs Neville/Ginny?

:clap:

I don't know where the Harmonians would go (perhaps they'd stick around and debate Ron/Luna or Neville/Ginny? Please? :)), but I love debating those ships! :agree:

[rowansjet]

The reason it'd be good to debate Ginny's partner is that we can work together with the Harmonions for once! :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Corbin Dallas]

rowansjet, McBeth, check this post out at New Clues
http://newclues.mugglenet.com/viewtopic.php?t=636&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=270
by BraveSirRobin, his second post on the page, an interesting way to look at Quidditch in Order, funny too, get me ;) '-
consider it my opening volley of "Canon" for Chocolate, Waves Pirate Chocolate Flag
CD

[yxs]

How about for the next few pages, we never mention the name Hermione, debating just Harry/Luna vs Ron/Luna, and Harry/Ginny vs Neville/Ginny?



Well, there isn't much to debate in here... not everything is romance in HP books... so that all kinds of pairings like this could work.
And there isn't much canon to support all this either

[Corbin Dallas]

Well, there isn't much to debate in here... not everything is romance in HP books... so that all kinds of pairings like this could work.
And there isn't much canon to support all this either
Yeah, well then don't chime in, :evil: , get me ;) '-
CD

[stic]

CornedBee wrote: stic, since you seem to be the best-arguing Harmony poster around here, would you take a look at the post linked in my sig and tell me what you think about it?

The fans who created the questions that Jo had on her cards had read PS/SS, Chamber and Azkaban. Neither book really had romantic stuff in them regarding the trio-members. They all were platonic.
Now, when after Vol.3 and before Vol. 4 (where things really began) of the Journey some fan (who like many others made guesses after only 3 Volumes) writes the present tense question: "Do Harry and Hermione have a date?" Jo answers also in present tense:
No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. which used to be perfectly correct before this changed when Jo had released Vol.4, IMO.
And about "somebody else" (probably implying R/Hr) Jo simply doesn't answer.
A clever non-answer that has fans making connections where there are none, jumping to a quick & wrong conclusion.
As I believe that Jo knew the really significant 3 R/Hr red-herrings will be in book 4 I suspect she began to do in an interview what was really to come in book 4: Diverting. Not lying. :tu:

Jo said something that happens in book 4 is "the heart of the series".
I cannot imagine she means LV getting his body back to be the heart of the series. And following the heron view that R/Hr is a little comedic-relief
sub-sub-plot with no significant ties to the main plot, I cannot imagine R/Hr to be the heart of the series. :no:

Yes knitting and how good Hermione got at something without reading a book wouldn't possibly make Hermione's face shine with Glee, it must be that boy, because Hermione's life is all about Harry, not SPEW, or OWLs or anyone else You cannot seem to refute my argument, otherwise I'd expect a real counterargument instead of a bit of sarcasm
I like how you think the clues only point to a red-herring with R/Hr but anything that might suggest otherwise, like the idea that Fred and George would get Hermione back for the Molly threat is not possible Wrong again. Of course It is possible that F&G spiked Hermione's drink, but it is undeniable that Hermione ,even if she'd been doped, had no intention to make up to Ron after she's been woken up for her lack of attention to him that evening. :eyebrows:

[GrangerGal]

Bingo. Read between the lines. Meaning nothing is obvious and JK isn't as dumb as R/Hr shippers want her to be...
First off I ask: Do you know what subtext is? I'm not talking about simple implications in the plain text, I'm talking about double meanings and symbolism.

I owled you about twelve times on this. My owl thing was not working and then suddenly it was...
Considering I am an English teacher, I do know what subtext is. Frankly I am insulted at the way you responded to my post. I think we both understand subtext. However if we truly understand it, we would all know that there is no way of knowing whose interpretation of subtext is correct until the final book. Subtext is the underlining meaning of a text. Therefore we cannot know for sure the meaning of the subtext or if there is even any underlining meaning when neither of us have read the whole series and I am pretty sure neither one of us are JKR. (If you are do you have any information you want to share!)

I thought I would owl you and write you on the message boards. I went to bed last night before you responded or else I would have written back sooner. I just wanted to make sure you got this. I was a bit insulted but I am pretty sure you just misunderstood my post. If anything I was saying your ideas and my ideas are both plausible because we cannot know what the subtext truly is until the last word of the last book.

Have a happy holiday and a happy new year.

[yxs]

Yeah, well then don't chime in, :evil: , get me ;) '-
CD
I won't... not into the discussions about those pairings much... as I don't see much to discuss in there.

But as this is a public board, I believe everyone has the right to give their opinion in here, not only Herons.

[Corbin Dallas]

You cannot seem to refute my argument, otherwise I'd expect a real counterargument instead of a bit of sarcasm
actually it's boredom, honestly, beaming at Harry because she want's to knit with him? Or beaming because she's proud of herself, which is more likely for a girl who prides herself on self achievement, spending time with Harry or that she's a good knitter. Can you now catch the counter arguement or shall Homer Simpson it some more for you, get me ;) '-
CD
http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1566525&postcount=1988
a link for anyone who really is curious about the "Tense" inwhich Jo answers the Date question with a "Very Platonic Friendship"...

But as this is a public board, I believe everyone has the right to give their opinion in here, not only Herons.
You are right of course and I am a Chocolateer first and foremost, Hermione/Ron is just soo there and I am to, but Chocolate first, cool :tu:

[delemtri]

Jo said something that happens in book 4 is "the heart of the series".
I cannot imagine she means LV getting his body back to be the heart of the series.

Then I won't take it too much to heart that you can't imagine Ron and Hermione getting together either.

[McBeth]

rowansjet, McBeth, check this post out at New Clues
http://newclues.mugglenet.com/viewtopic.php?t=636&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=270
by BraveSirRobin, his second post on the page, an interesting way to look at Quidditch in Order, funny too, get me ;) '-
consider it my opening volley of "Canon" for Chocolate, Waves Pirate Chocolate Flag
CD

:huh: This is officially the first time a Chocolateer has me totally astounded. Bludger Hermione my foot. :rotfl:

It was well thought out, I suppose, but I doubt JKR's going into the books that deeply for something like shipping. :lol:

[Corbin Dallas]

:huh: This is officially the first time a Chocolateer has me totally astounded. Bludger Hermione my foot. :rotfl:

It was well thought out, I suppose, but I doubt JKR's going into the books that deeply for something like shipping. :lol:
I know, I know, BSR was goofing on some people there, very subtle but some interesting points were brought up though, get me ;) '-
CD
But you gotta admit, a bludger with Bushy Brown Hair would be quite distracting :rotfl:

[McBeth]

I won't... not into the discussions about those pairings much... as I don't see much to discuss in there.

But as this is a public board, I believe everyone has the right to give their opinion in here, not only Herons.

Guys, I'm not trying to tell you what to do by any means - but don't you think it would be a good idea to try shipping something other than Harmony just for the heck of it?

I'm afraid that's the reason this place is becoming over-run with Herons - it's always Heron vs. Harmony, and you just can't debate it forever. You need a break every once and a while.

[delemtri]

:huh: This is officially the first time a Chocolateer has me totally astounded. Bludger Hermione my foot. :rotfl:

It was well thought out, I suppose, but I doubt JKR's going into the books that deeply for something like shipping. :lol:

Oh, but I don't know. Ginny's position on the Quidditch team is one of the big things that happens in OOTP which is a real boon to Chocolate - he does indeed, as has been discussed recently, "notice" her after her first appearance as a Seeker.

[McBeth]

I know, I know, BSR was goofing on some people there, very subtle but some interesting points were brought up though, get me ;) '-
CD
But you gotta admit, a bludger with Bushy Brown Hair would be quite distracting :rotfl:

But it doesn't make sense, because usually the Bludgers and Beaters go after the Chasers. Sure, they'll try to bludger the Seeker's brains out if they get the chance, but the Bludgers usually go after the Chasers. It doesn't really make sense. . . to me, anyway. :D

[Corbin Dallas]

Actually the bludgers go after everyone, the Beaters decide where they go in trying to aim their hits accordingly, get me ;) '-
CD

[stic]

Corbin Dallas wrote: actually it's boredom, honestly, beaming at Harry because she want's to knit with him? Or beaming because she's proud of herself, which is more likely for a girl who prides herself on self (...). Can you now catch the counter arguement or shall Homer Simpson it some more for you, get me :rotfl: Again, you missed. Just a few posts above you brought up in essence the very same thing : I don't think even Hermione would consider Knitting a "Date", as many Harmony's have suggested So I'm going to recycle my response: I was not simply arguing:
Hermione wants to knit with Harry------>she likes him romantically
To repeat myself:I didn't even go there. My point was that Hermione couldn't have cared any less about Ron and his party without appearing downright "rude" to Ron, while the topic S.P.E.W in combination with Harry easily managed to make her face "shine with glee".What matters here is not primarily Hermione's glee over knitting with Harry but rather the contrast it creates between her obvious disinterest in Ron and his party and her glee over S.P.E.W (+ Harry) :eyebrows:
Ron had in OotP a "storyline" with Quidditch but when he made the team Hermione simply said "I'm pleased" and nodded off. :rotfl:
And when Harry had woken her up and she had given him all her attention and concentration she didn't try to make up to Ron for the lack of attention she had given him that evening. Nope, she was undeniably glad she had an opportunity to leave Ron's party, she had no interest in hanging around there.

[yxs]

Guys, I'm not trying to tell you what to do by any means - but don't you think it would be a good idea to try shipping something other than Harmony just for the heck of it?


Well, I'm not shipping anything for the heck of it personally... I don't ship at all.
I don't really think there is enough of any kind of evidence of romance in these books to do what people call shipping...
But romance I am interested in... this will not be missing from the lives of Rowling's characters either, especially the main character.
But there really is only one girl he's close to so far... so... I dunno... there's no point to just take some character and start to ship her with Harry, just for the heck of it.

[McBeth]

Actually the bludgers go after everyone, the Beaters decide where they go in trying to aim their hits accordingly, get me ;) '-
CD

Then who are the Beaters? :evil:

Honestly, I don't think SBR or whatever he's called thought this thing out thoroughly . . . :rotfl:

[GrangerGal]

Hermione doesn't like horses; Ron's wand core is a unicorn, which is a horse. The logic solves itself. But this is light stuff. Let me show you the 'OWL error' subtext. Prime example of something that was by no means an accident.

http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=5574

Read that forum essay: That's exactly what it is: Irrefutable. (For those who don't want/can't read; here's a summary: On their Owls, Harry accidently wrote down Mars when the right answer was Venus for his Astronomy exam, and Hermione wrote down' defence' rather than the correct answer 'partnership' on her ancient rune exam. In other words they don't see what they have. I hope you read the essay, it makes more sense than how I explained it.)

Here's another one: http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=9454

A little too much, even for me, but there's loads of solid stuff in there.

Here's the master list: [url]http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=10112

I read the essays. They were well-thought out but not Irrefutable.

Here we go...

1) The mix-up... yes it is very interesting that they both mixed up things on their owls but partnership can mean many things. The subtext of partnership can mean a business partnership, a romantic partnership, a friendship... etc...

Harry switched Venus and Mars. These two planets are very important to him because war is what he will be fighting and love is how he is going to fight it. Venus and Mars are both a fairly fickle gods. I wonder what you would make of that subtext.

These scenes are both subject to interpretation. We cannot know if their subtext is true until the last book so I would still deem this subject as refutable rather than irrefutable.

2) "It could be the one mistake that makes the difference between a pass and a fail" - We know Hermione is obsessed with her grades. Her boggart was a professor telling her she failed all her exams. Like Freud said "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

3) (GoF- Harry to Krum)
“We’re friends. She’s not my girlfriend and she never has been. It’s just that Skeeter woman making things up.”
“Hermy-own-ninny talks about you very often,” said Krum, looking suspiciously at Harry.
“Yeah,” said Harry, “because were friends.” (note Harry’s very correct use of past tense- smart boy leaving the future open for surprises… *lol*) -
Here is the problem with this interpretation. What Harry said was
"because we're friends." He said we're friends as in we are friends not as in we were friends. It was a contraction of two words.

4) (OoP- Harry to Cho)
'Go on, leave!' she said, now crying into the napkin. 'I don't know why you asked me out in the first place if you're going to make arrangements to meet other girls right after me… how many are you meeting after Hermione?'
'It's not like that!' said Harry, and he was so relieved at finally understanding what she was annoyed about that he laughed, which he realised a split second too late was also a mistake.
(yeah, right… *lol*)

He laughed at the idea that Cho thought he liked Hermione. He finds the idea of him liking Hermione as a girlfriend amusing.

5) A unicorn is not a true horse. It is a mythological creature with the body of a horse and a horn on the head. When Hagrid leaves, Prof. Grubbly-Plank brings unicorns. Hermione was not adverse to the unicorns in that scene.

6) And finally Jane Austen's Emma... ("I love a good whodunnit and my passion is plot construction. Readers loved to be tricked, but not conned," Rowling says, warming to her theme. "The best twist ever in literature is in Jane Austen's Emma. To me she is the target of perfection at which we shoot in vain.". “Emma” s ONLY plot are romantic entanglements, which makes me positive about believing love will be a greater issue in the series than people tend to think when considering they’re reading a “children’s book”.)!

Emma falls for the man who she never thought she could love. A man she thought disliked her and was constantly teasing her. They were always arguing with eachother and mocking one another's interests and ideas. For those of you who never read Emma, Clueless is based completely on it. (One of my students actually did her thesis on it last year and it was brillant!) Anyway Cher does not know that she is in love with her stepbrother because all along she thought they hated eachother. She finally realizes that underneath their teasing was love! Shades of Hermione and Ron anyone!?

[McBeth]

Well, I'm not shipping anything for the heck of it personally... I don't ship at all.
I don't really think there is enough of any kind of evidence of romance in these books to do what people call shipping...
But romance I am interested in... this will not be missing from the lives of Rowling's characters either, especially the main character.
But there really is only one girl he's close to so far... so... I dunno... there's no point to just take some character and start to ship her with Harry, just for the heck of it.

Shipping doesn't mean you have to place your hand across your heart and declare your undying devotion to any particular Potter couple.

I'd say it's worth while to look into other ships - hey, I looked into Chocolate and Harmony, and it made me a more open-minded and knowledgeable shipper, I should say - and try to understand their aspects and appreciate them. It opens up many more possibilities for debates when you do so.

Again, I'm not telling anyone what to do. This is just my theory on why Herons have been having the run of the place over the past few months. :)

[Corbin Dallas]

What matters here is not primarily Hermione's the glee over knitting with Harry but rather the contrast it creates between her obvious disinterest in Ron and his party and S.P.E.W (+ Harry)
Ron had in OotP a "storyline" with Quidditch but when he made the team Hermione simply said "I'm pleased" and nodded off.
And funnily(?) after this one incident, we have Hermione
1.) Kissing Ron before his Quidditch Match and not Harry
2.) Make a schedule for Ron to continue practicing in the midst of his OWL preperations
3.) Comment on How Ron might do better without Fred and George around because they didn't give Ron confidence
4.) Physically "Placate" Ron when she told him that she and Harry missed his big moment
5.) Said that Ron's goaltending wasn't the source of her happiness when Fred, George and Harry were complaining how miserable Quiiditch was since they couldn't plat it anymore, a dig at them if you will
this is all related to Ron's quidditch story, it's all canon and all but one instance haapens after Harry is offf the team, so again Funny that now that Harry is off the team, Hermione is interested in Ron's Quidditch Story...
so 5 to 1(if that) I'd say I got more points there for Ron's quidditch story, get me ;) '-
Hermione wants to knit with Harry------>she likes him romantically
while the topic S.P.E.W in combination with Harry easily managed to make her face "shine with glee".

I see I misunderstood then :evil:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Then who are the Beaters?

Honestly, I don't think SBR or whatever he's called thought this thing out thoroughly . . .
that's BSR and I got the idea he was just sticking to the romantic elements otherwise Fred and George ofcourse, email him, he has a link, he might be able to tell you, forget the match and check out the points McBeth, get me ;) '-
well gotta go for now, MERRY CHRISTMAS, Happy Holidays, everyone...
CD

[SQUIB182]

So what your saying basicly, is a girl can't be a player??

[noodle]

Hi everyone, first I'd just like to say MERYY CHRISTMAS to you all! lol

I was listening to some Jo interviews today and I decided to make a little present for you guys (and this IS related to shipping btw), I only had these 2 interviews, if some1 knows where I can find more let me know so I can add them to the file.
Click here (http://s4.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=2KD2TUXJH17G80XAB163PTHKLS) to download and enjoy! (it's a really small file btw...)
Unfortunatly that website has limited downloads but if the link expires and other ppl want the file just let me know and I'll upload again.

On a last note - this isn't really anything exclusive and most of you probably heard these already, but then again they might be new to some of you!

[rupertfan123]

And Ron lay forgotten by Hermione as usual, and when he attempted to bicker she ignored him. Hmmmm.

Ron had in OotP a "storyline" with Quidditch but when he made the team Hermione simply said "I'm pleased" and nodded off.
And when Harry had woken her up and she had given him all her attention and concentration she didn't try to make up to Ron for the lack of attention she had given him that evening. Nope, she was undeniably glad she had an opportunity to leave Ron's party, she had no interest in hanging around there.
What she had a huge interest in was getting Harry to join her for knitting more elf-hats.

No,she wanted to leave the party because she felt uncomfortable because of all the people giving Ron attention.She felt he wasn't giving her any attention,so there was no need to stay and watch him bask in fame.

[stic]

CorbinDallas wrote: And funnily(?) after this one incident, we have Hermione
1.) Kissing Ron before his Quidditch Match and not HarryA desperate move to help a friend who's on his way to get slaughtered, IMO.
Hermione trusts Harry not to suck on the Quidditch Pitch. :eyebrows:
2.) Make a schedule for Ron to continue practicing in the midst of his OWL preperations And she helps Harry with no less dedication for his exams, so what's the point? :huh: 3.) Comment on How Ron might do better without Fred and George around because they didn't give Ron confidenceWhich is speaking out what's plain as day to everyone
4.) Physically "Placate" Ron when she told him that she and Harry missed his big moment Whoa, she stretched out her hand in a placatory way....oh wait, that's not good enough to indicate anything special....
5.) Said that Ron's goaltending wasn't the source of her happinessher "happiness doesn't depend on Ron's goal-keeping" which means her happyness isn't hampered too much in general by Ron sucking on the Quidditch Pitch
this is all related to Ron's quidditch story, it's all canon and all but one instance haapens after Harry is offf the team, so again Funny that now that Harry is off the team, Hermione is interested in Ron's Quidditch Story...Her "happiness doesn't depend on Ron's........"
so 5 to 1(if that) I'd say I got more points there for Ron's quidditch story, get me '- No.

[rupertfan123]

Quote:
And funnily(?) after this one incident, we have Hermione
1.) Kissing Ron before his Quidditch Match and not Harry

A desperate move to help a friend who's on his way to get slaughtered, IMO.
Hermione trusts Harry not to suck on the Quidditch Pitch.

Quote:
2.) Make a schedule for Ron to continue practicing in the midst of his OWL preperations

And help Harry in the same way for his exams, so what's the point?
Quote:
3.) Comment on How Ron might do better without Fred and George around because they didn't give Ron confidence

Which is speaking out what's plain as day to everyone

Quote:
4.) Physically "Placate" Ron when she told him that she and Harry missed his big moment

Whoa, she stretched out her hand in a placatory way....oh wait, that's not good enough to indicate anything romantic....

Quote:
5.) Said that Ron's goaltending wasn't the source of her happiness

her "happiness doesn't depend on Ron's goal-keeping" which means her happyness isn't hampered too much in general by Ron sucking on the Quidditch Pitch

Quote:
this is all related to Ron's quidditch story, it's all canon and all but one instance haapens after Harry is offf the team, so again Funny that now that Harry is off the team, Hermione is interested in Ron's Quidditch Story...

Her "happiness doesn't depend on....

Quote:
so 5 to 1(if that) I'd say I got more points there for Ron's quidditch story, get me '-

No.

Oh,and Stic....I would LOVE to hear some Harry/Hermione moments!

[Darynthe]

Just a quickie to wish Merry Christmas to everyone!!!!! Have a great day in the company of your family :D

[delemtri]

A desperate move to help a friend who's on his way to get slaughtered, IMO.I'll remember to give you a peck on July 15, then. :)
And she helps Harry with no less dedication for his exams, so what's the point? :huh:Well, she decided not to help either of them until Ron received the letter from Percy, when she looked at him with an "odd expression" on her face and "abruptly" began helping them with their Astronomy essays.
Which is speaking out what's plain as day to everyoneSo why should Hermione want to stop it? Because she cares more about Ron as a person than she does about Ron as a Quidditch player. Just bashing Ron won't help your argument here.

[faiza]

How about for the next few pages, we never mention the name Hermione, debating just Harry/Luna vs Ron/Luna, and Harry/Ginny vs Neville/Ginny?

If anyone wants to, we'll have to advertise this: No Hermione!


And I was just getting tired of lurking and wanted to start defending my ship (Harmony). I'm bleary-eyed from reading. I have to admit I only read the first 11 pages and scanned the last 2, but I have to say I noticed that the Herons are a lot more active then the Harmonians, aside from stic. So I finally decide to get off my lazy **** and start defending Harmony (I have to say I got insulted quite a few times while reading). Or at least try . I'm not very good at expressing myself and getting my point across. And then you suggest we stop mentioning Hermione! Oh well...

Although I can see Harry/Luna happening and I think it would be very funny, I think Ron/Luna is more realistic because there were a few clues that Luna likes Ron. Harry and Ron don't understand women, at all. And Luna is a bit strange, even for women. So Harry and Ron would have a lot of trouble understanding her. But I think Luna has the patience to deal with both of them.

A long long time ago, I was a Harry/Ginny shipper. But then the Harmonians came with all their symbolism and in dephth theories and I became a harmonian. I think Ginny has honestly moved on from her crush and Harry has never seen her in that way so... The only thing the chocolateers have going for them is:

1. Lily and Ginny both have red hair.
2. The possesion
3. Ginny gets through to Harry when he's raging or upset
4. The library scene

1. Harry, how much he may look like him, is NOT James. So even though James digged redheads, that doesn't mean Harry does too. He is not his father.
2. Like a lot of people said before, Harry's possesion and Ginny's were very different. They can't relate. Ginny wasn't aware of it happening, but could've done something about it. Harry was aware of it happening, but couldn't do anything.
3. This happened once and it was more Ginny being indignant that Harry forgot about her being possessed than anything else. It didn't help Harry really. And it was Hermione (sorry) who got Harry to come downstairs, when nobody else could/would.
4. Anybody with eyes in their head could see that Harry was upset. All she did was get him chased out of the library and offer to ask someone else (F & G) for help. Again, she did not really help.

Ginny/Neville: This seems possible, but not probable. If H/Hr and R/L get together, these 2 are left. That doesn't necessarily mean they have to get together. Although they defended the other a couple of times. But hey, that's what friends are for, right?

[rjade829]

Why is it that when Hermione wants to help out Ron with his problems, it means she's madly in love with him, but when she helps Harry out with his problems it's because she's just a good friend to him?

[delemtri]

Why is it that when Hermione wants to help out Ron with his problems, it means she's madly in love with him, but when she helps Harry out with his problems it's because she's just a good friend to him?

Because Ron's problems are, well, Ron's problems and Harry's problems are things like needing to kill the most powerful wizard in history.

[McBeth]

Although I can see Harry/Luna happening and I think it would be very funny, I think Ron/Luna is more realistic because there were a few clues that Luna likes Ron. Harry and Ron don't understand women, at all. And Luna is a bit strange, even for women. So Harry and Ron would have a lot of trouble understanding her. But I think Luna has the patience to deal with both of them.

I don't see how Red Moon (Ron/Luna) is more realistic than Moonlight (Luna/Harry), because the only thing it has going for them is a supposed schoolgirl crush on Luna's side. Ron has no apparent feelings with Luna - he has much less patience with her than Harry.

Red Moon and Moonlight are based off two very, very different things. Red Moon is based of Luna's possible crush on Ron (and that crush may not even be there). Moonlight is based off Luna's ability to get through to Harry when he's crumbling under an enormous burden when no one else - not even Dumbledore - could. I think Harry would come much closer to understanding Luna than Ron ever would.

[rjade829]

Because Ron's problems are, well, Ron's problems and Harry's problems are things like needing to kill the most powerful wizard in history.

Not always. Hermione helps Harry out with non-Voldemort related problems too.

I just think that not every time Hermione helps one of the boys out has to be romantic. She's still their friend. That's what friends do.

[delemtri]

Not always. Hermione helps Harry out with non-Voldemort related problems too.

I just think that not every time Hermione helps one of the boys out has to be romantic. She's still their friend. That's what friends do.

This is a good point. I think it's fair to say both Heron and Harmony use some things which could easily be evidence of Hermione being a good friend (which she obviously is) as evidence for shipping.

[faiza]

I don't see how Red Moon (Ron/Luna) is more realistic than Moonlight (Luna/Harry), because the only thing it has going for them is a supposed schoolgirl crush on Luna's side. Ron has no apparent feelings with Luna - he has much less patience with her than Harry.

Harry also doesn't have any feelings for Luna. Ron is completely clueless about Luna's 'advances' (like on the trainride, the whole "I wouldn't have minded not dancing" or something like that). Ron's lack of patience when it comes to Hermione doesn't stop people from pairing the 2 of them up, so why would it matter with Luna?

Red Moon and Moonlight are based off two very, very different things. Red Moon is based of Luna's possible crush on Ron (and that crush may not even be there). Moonlight is based off Luna's ability to get through to Harry when he's crumbling under an enormous burden when no one else - not even Dumbledore - could. I think Harry would come much closer to understanding Luna than Ron ever would.

You know, Harmony/Moonlight and Heron/Red Moon are very similar. Hermione also gets through to Harry when no one else can and heron is mostly based on Ron's (possible) crush on hermione.

[McBeth]

Harry also doesn't have any feelings for Luna. Ron is completely clueless about Luna's 'advances' (like on the trainride, the whole "I wouldn't have minded not dancing" or something like that). Ron's lack of patience when it comes to Hermione doesn't stop people from pairing the 2 of them up, so why would it matter with Luna?

Ron believes Luna is insane - he doesn't think the same about Hermione.

Harry doesn't have any feelings for Hermione, or any of the girls in Harry Potter currently. It's something that needs to develope.

You know, Harmony/Moonlight and Heron/Red Moon are very similar. Hermione also gets through to Harry when no one else can and heron is mostly based on Ron's (possible) crush on hermione.

There are similarities, I suppose. However, I find Luna's success of lifting Harry's burden at the end of OotP to be much a greater feat than any of the other girls in Harry Potter have ever managed.

[faiza]

Ron believes Luna is insane - he doesn't think the same about Hermione

I seem to recall Ron calling Hermione 'mental' on several occasions.

I find Luna's success of lifting Harry's burden at the end of OotP to be much a greater feat than any of the other girls in Harry Potter have ever managed.

True, true. I did say a romance between the 2 is possible. But why then would Jo put clues of Luna liking Ron in the books? Isn't a Harry/Hermione/Ron triangle enough? Besides, Harry mostly pitied Luna. I don't think that's a very good emotion to base a relationship off. But I suppose that's because he knows the feeling of people picking on him.

[rjade829]

You know, Harmony/Moonlight and Heron/Red Moon are very similar. Hermione also gets through to Harry when no one else can and heron is mostly based on Ron's (possible) crush on hermione.

Well, I think we can say Ron's definite crush on Hermione. Even Harmonians agree with that. Heron is then mostly based on Hermione's (possible) crush on Ron.

It's interesting that you say Harmony and Moonlight are very similar. I think (I could be wrong of course) that you'll find that a lot of Harmonians prefer Moonlight to Chocolate if Harmony doesn't work out. That's how I feel anyway. I could be completely wrong... Harmonians, how do you feel about that?

Anyway, so we have Luna and we have the trio. I think Luna is the type of person that, loony as she is, you can learn a lot from her if you know her. And I think we can see the effects that Luna would have on Harry and on Hermione pretty clearly.
Luna is a person that Harry can relate to. He can talk to her about things like death, she can see the thestrals and hear the voices behind the veil, she knows what it's like to lose a parent.
Luna is a person that Hermione can learn from. Obviously they have two very different ways of thinking and Hermione has issues with Luna's, but I think Luna could teach Hermione to be a little more open-minded. Hermione's going to have to accept Luna if Harry becomes friends with her and understand that Harry wants to listen to Luna sometimes too. Hermione already showed the first signs of this in the hospital wing when she said "that sounds lovely" instead of criticizing Luna about the snorkacks or whatever she was talking about.

So then I wonder if Luna has a role to play in regards to Ron. Personally I love the thought of Ron/Luna, but I don't know if it will happen or not, and if it doesn't, fine.

[rupertfan123]

Okay,you Harmonians are really making me angry.You are all VERY rude to us Herons.So now,I'm going to be rude back!Stic,bashing Ron is NOT going to change our minds about Ron/Hermione.In fact,I'm going to be more defensive about my opinions because of it.(In case you haven't noticed yet,I'm a HUGE Weasley fan.)Okay,so here goes my Ron/Hermione rant.

Okay,to start,let's talk about people thinking Harry should get the girl and Ron doesn't deserve her.I have a few things to say about this;
1)Ron deserves Hermione just as much as Harry does.
And he might even deserve her MORE than Harry. :tu:
2)Harry already had his chance.
Yeah,that's right!He was already going with Cho.Ron should get a little romance too! :tu:
3)Why should Harry get a girl who's not even interested in him?
And that mrings me to my next topic. :tu:

Okay,so now let's get into the evidence.See,for Harry/Hermione there isn't enough evidence.(or any,to say the least)But for Ron/Hermione,there might even be too much evidence.Here I have gathered one moment from each book that shows Ron/Hermione.Remember these are the BIGGEST clues to R/Hr in the book.


Book 1

-Little did Harry know that Ron and Hermione had been secretly practicing the Leg-Locker curse. They'd gotten the idea from Malfoy using it on Neville, and were ready to use it on Snape if he showed any sign of wanting to hurt Harry.

"Now, don't forget, It's Locomotor Mortis," Hermione muttered as Ron slipped his wand up his sleeve.

"I know!" Ron snapped. "Don't nag."(not sure if this one counts or not...again a maybe)


Whoa!A little bit of sneeking around behind Harry's back?! :evil: If thay did it once,they'll probally do it again.People might think this is a H/Hr clue because they're protecting Harry,but Ron was there too,so it doesn't really count.


Book 2

-"I'm quite surprised the Mudbloods haven't all packed their bags by now," Malfoy went on. "Bet you five Galleons the next one dies. Pity it wasn't Granger-"

The bell rang at that moment, which was lucky; at Malfoy's last words, Ron had leapt off his stool, and in the scramble to collect bags and books, his attempts to reach Malfoy went unnoticed.

"Let me at him," Ron growled as Harry and Dean hung onto his arms. "I don't care, I don't need my wand, I'm going to kill him with my bare hands-" (I love this one! Malfoy's lucky the bell rang...)
Ron was obviously pretty angry if his friends had to hold him back! :rotfl:


Book 3

-"Hermione, I don't know what's gotten into you lately!" said Ron, astounded. "First you hit Malfoy, then you walk out on Professor Trelawney-"

Hermione looked rather flattered.

Ron thinks that Hermione is very brave and cunning after doing what she did.Therefore,Ron finds Hermione more attractive.Hermione is flattered to get a compliment from Ron.Does it say she looks flattered when Harry tells her she's not ugly in the fifth book? :huh: I don't think so!


Book 4

"Don't be stupid," Hermione snapped, starting to pound up he beetles again. "No, it's just ... how did she know Viktor asked me to visit him over the summer?"
Hermione blushed scarlet as she said this, and determinedly avoided Ron's eyes.
"What?" said Ron, dropping his pestle with a loud clunk.
"He asked me right after he'd pulled me out of the lake," Hermione muttered. "After he'd got rid of his shark's head. Madam Pomfrey gave us both blankets and then he sort of pulled me away from the judges so they wouldn't hear, and he said, if I wasn't dojng anything over the summer, would I like to-"
"And what did you say?" said Ron, who had picked up his pestle and was grinding it on the desk, a good six inches from his bowl, because he was looking at Hermione.
"And he did say he'd never felt the same way about anyone else," Hermione went on, going so red now that Harry could almost feel the heat coming from her, "but how could Rita Skeeter have heard him? She wasn't there ... or was she? Maybe she has got an Invisibility Cloak, maybe she sneaked into the grounds to watch the second task ..."
"And what did you say?" Ron repeated, pounding his pestle down so hard that it dented the desk.
"Well, I was too busy seeing whether you and Harry were OK to-"
This shows that Hermione is afraid Ron might get the wrong impression and think she likes Viktor.Ron continueally asks what she replied because he's afraid that Hermione does like Vicky and not him.


Book 5

"Thanks for the book, Harry," she said happily. "I've been wanting that New Theory of Numerology for ages! And that perfume's really unusual, Ron."
"No problem," said Ron.
PLEASE dpn't make me go on my perfume rant again!


Okay,so there you have it...The most important evidence from each of the books.If you disagree with anything I said here,feel free to yell and scream at me all you want...But don't expect me not to yell and scream right back! :evil:

[daz]

Originally Posted by stic
Jo said something that happens in book 4 is "the heart of the series".
I cannot imagine she means LV getting his body back to be the heart of the series.



Then I won't take it too much to heart that you can't imagine Ron and Hermione getting together either

its Harrys story and why would R/HR be the heart of the story. That makes no sense. These is not a roamce book. We aint reading Mills and Boon.

[runitzandrew]

I seem to recall Ron calling Hermione 'mental' on several occasions.
Good point!
its Harrys story and why would R/HR be the heart of the story. That makes no sense. These is not a roamce book. We aint reading Mills and Boon.
I totally agree. :)

[daz]

I have a question for whomever Harmonians are here - do you debate anything other than Heron vs. Harmony very often?

YES i do and you can go though my post. I have shipped for Ginny and Neville. Luna and Ron. Because i get very bored of just sticking to the Hermony ship.

[delemtri]

its Harrys story and why would R/HR be the heart of the story. That makes no sense. These is not a roamce book. We aint reading Mills and Boon.

Yeah, but I wasn't talking about R/H in my quote. Did you read it? I was shocked that stic would assert that Voldemort's second rising wouldn't qualify as the heart of the series.

So you know the context - did you read *any* of the posts in the series? - stic more or less was saying that it *was* a romance series - that H/H was what JKR meant by the heart of the series. Maybe I should let you two argue it out.

[yxs]

Okay,you Harmonians are really making me angry.You are all VERY rude to us Herons.
Ok, that's new

I seem to see mostly the opposite going on in here

[delemtri]

Ok, that's new

I seem to see mostly the opposite going on in here

Maybe you're - how did you put it? - "reading with your eyes closed."

[rupertfan123]

Originally posted by delemtri
Maybe you're - how did you put it? - "reading with your eyes closed."


Haha...that's good!

[rjade829]

Originally Posted by McBeth
I have a question for whomever Harmonians are here - do you debate anything other than Heron vs. Harmony very often?

I've said stuff about R/L and N/G sometimes, but I wouldn't call myself an avid R/L or N/G shipper. So yeah, I've debated other stuff, but not very often. Harmony is the ship I'm emotionally invested in, it's my favorite of all and the one I think will most likely happen and so I'll debate Harmony vs. anything that attacks Harmony...and that doesn't always come from Heron.

[delemtri]

Haha...that's good!

It's especially rich because it's the exact same words yxs likes to use whenever anybody disagrees with her. But we're the rude ones.

I loved the fanart in your sig so much that I've spent a few hours over the last few days looking up fanart (of all ships) - there is really a lot of amazing stuff out there. I found a few of that scene we've been discussing - the one where Hermione stands on her tiptoes to kiss Ron on the cheek - that were just heart-breaking.

[AvadaKedavra]

Ahaa... it was that...<snip>

Well, I might say I know who Hermione loves, but it is not clear... and I can't believe she would say that it should be... she knows very well it isn't.

Look at what you are doing. You are saying that she said something untrue, in full knowledge that she would be uttering an untruth. In other words, you are calling JKR a liar. It's all up there above. I'm very sorry but it's this kind of behaviour, calling JKR a liar just because what she says doesn't tally with what you believe, that makes me lose respect. You're being totally biased here.

And you didn't even reply to my main post that I posted a while before my addition- unless I missed it?


Can someone bring specific, Hr===>R moments out of the book? Please?

Sure thing.

One of the most significant parts in OOTP showing Hermione’s feelings:



"You should have told her differently," said Hermione, still with that maddeningly patient air.

Now I take this as Hermione being very, very patient at Harry’s apparent cluelessness. Harry is clueless, tactless and generally naïve about this area. This area is getting the girl that he wants.


"You should have said it was really annoying, but I'd made you promise to come along to the Three Broomsticks, and you really didn't want to go, you’d much rather spend the whole day with her, but unfortunately you thought you really ought to meet me and would she please, please come along with you and hopefully you'd be able to get away more quickly?"

Hermione is explaining patiently to Harry what he should have done. She is explaining without the merest trace of hesitation to Harry that he should pretend Hermione Granger is really annoying and why he doesn’t want to be there to meet her. She is telling Harry to give his crush an impression that he doesn’t find Hermione interesting (at that moment.)


And it might have been a good idea to mention how ugly you think I am too," Hermione added as an afterthought.

The critical point here is that Hermione said as an afterthought. Hermione, who has in the very previous sentence explained to Harry why he should give the crush the impression he doesn’t particularly find Hermione interesting, is adding something directly related to this. Hermione is on a train of thought. She is thinking about the very situation, and adding things as new things come to light in the conversation that could potentially be useful to the conversation.


"But I don't think you're ugly," said Harry, bemused.
"Harry, you're worse than Ron...."

Harry has just paid Hermione a compliment, if it can be interpreted that way. Directly relating this to the overall scheme of things, Harry is clearly not picking up on Hermione’s advice. He is bemused, as the canon states. Harry is still tactless and still clueless.

As I said before, these traits Harry shows are shown on a specific area. This area is getting the girl that he wants.

Harry has just displayed tactlessness and cluelessness on how to get the girl he wants. Hermione is still on that train of thought. As this occurs to Hermione, another thought occurs to her. A thought directly related to tactlessness and cluelessness on how to get a girl that is wanted.. That thought, unarguably, is Ron.

Hermione’s mind springs to Ron when she thinks of tactlessness and cluelessness on how to get a girl that is wanted. And who does Ron want, as almost universally agreed here? That girl happens to be Hermione.

In other words, Hermione is thinking- Ron is tactless and clueless when it comes to getting Hermione, if he has feelings for her. In other words, Ron is going about it in the wrong way and he is simply not picking up the clues, for example, the kiss (if it was intended the way I think it was.). If he, Ron, does indeed, like Hermione, then why isn’t he doing anything about it? He is not (in Hermione’s opinion) making it totally clear that he likes Hermione, and refusing to take it up to the next level. Hermione wants confirmation, and Ron is not giving it, despite indications that he may like Hermione. Ron is seemingly stuck in a stalemate, and only giving timid steps that are lost in the complication of their strong friendship- i.e. perfume and his compliments to her. Valentines Day has come and gone. This would have been an ample opportunity for Ron to “ask” Hermione- i.e. the next nearest thing to a “ball”. But he has to stay behind for Quidditch practice.

Harry is being tactless and clueless on how to get a girl that he wants. “Oh! He’s worse than Ron!” thinks Hermione.

Well, no, you're not," she sighed, as Ron himself came stumping into the Hall splattered with mud and looking grumpy.

But, ironically, Ron walks in. Ron in the flesh. Ron who wants Hermione. Ron who is merely yards away from Hermione. Ron who is being muddy and grumpy, whilst in an ideal and romantic world should be walking to the girl of his dreams, smartly dressed with a bunch of flowers. Ron, dressed in Quidditch Robes, providing yet another reminder of his apparent cluelessness and tactlessness- (even though it wasn’t really completely his fault he had to stay behind for practice).

At this moment, Hermione wonders if Ron really does have feelings, in her despair. He doesn’t seem to be doing anything significant, not to the extent that, she, Hermione wants. And that is the confirmation. He is being totally clueless and tactless. Harry is worse than Ron? Not likely.

Hermione retracts her statement, with a sigh, often a sign of despairing.

Signing out,

Avada

[snoopy_bombay]

harry and hermione should get together

[rupertfan123]

It's especially rich because it's the exact same words yxs likes to use whenever anybody disagrees with her. But we're the rude ones.

I loved the fanart in your sig so much that I've spent a few hours over the last few days looking up fanart (of all ships) - there is really a lot of amazing stuff out there. I found a few of that scene we've been discussing - the one where Hermione stands on her tiptoes to kiss Ron on the cheek - that were just heart-breaking.

Yeah,the site I got that off is amazing!I've never seen the scenes captured so perfectly.I don't know how many times I've said that already,but I'm guessing about ten.

[delemtri]

Yeah,the site I got that off is amazing!I've never seen the scenes captured so perfectly.I don't know how many times I've said that already,but I'm guessing about ten.

It's especially healthy for shaking off movie impressions of the characters - I find more and more that Ron (sorry, I know what your handle is, but I can't help it) doesn't look anything like I thought he ought to, and Harry, Hermione, Ginny, Sirius, Remus, and now Cho are only marginally better. Maybe they'll get Luna right - it's hard to say because she's on that threshold between main plot-driven character and side personality-driven character and they tend to either go to one extreme (gorgeous child stars for preteens to go wild over) or the other (Malfoy's henchmen, Professor Trelawney, etc.).

Buh. I guess I should get back on topic sometime.

[daz]

For me Daniel looks very much the part. He looks very much like Harry. Ginny h*ell no. Hermione is good. Dumbledore is not how i pictured him either. Ron is too goofy for me as well. Mcgonagall is very good casting as well. I like her.

[AvadaKedavra]

It's www.artdungeon.net (in my opinion the best artist out there. Everything in there is as I imagine it to be in the books)

[runitzandrew]

harry and hermione should get together
I agree. :)
- -- -
I can't say I agree with what AvadaKedavra was saying in his/her post.
ps: artdungeon.net does have some great art there :)

[delemtri]

I agree. :)
- -- -
I can't say I agree with what AvadaKedavra was saying in his/her post.

Why not? Seemed like a durned solid post to me - the issue of Hermione waiting through OOTP for Ron to make a move is a subtlety which we rarely delve into on the boards, but it's a very strong one and explains a lot.

[LilypadLollipop]

Maybe you're - how did you put it? - "reading with your eyes closed."
now that is rich ;), nice one.
hey Lizzie! i checked out the site again, like the one called "whisper" *giggle*

[McBeth]

I seem to recall Ron calling Hermione 'mental' on several occasions.

You truly think Ron regards Hermione the same way he regards Luna? :huh:

True, true. I did say a romance between the 2 is possible. But why then would Jo put clues of Luna liking Ron in the books? Isn't a Harry/Hermione/Ron triangle enough? Besides, Harry mostly pitied Luna. I don't think that's a very good emotion to base a relationship off. But I suppose that's because he knows the feeling of people picking on him.

There isn't a Harry/Hermione/Ron Love Triangle - some people see it that way, but it isn't there, and we have no evidence that a Love Triangle will ever take place.

Whether Luna actually liked Ron or not, the supposed evidence that she did dwindled and died at about the half-way point of OotP.

As for Harry pitying her, it made sense that he would, because he had only seen her as a loony rebel before, and then got a glimpse of what her life was really like. He needed to realize that she, too, had troubles, before they could become friends and begin to understand one another.

[daz]

Originally Posted by snoopy_bombay
harry and hermione should get together

Very true and its great to have another Hermony .

[LilypadLollipop]

Why not? Seemed like a durned solid post to me - the issue of Hermione waiting through OOTP for Ron to make a move is a subtlety which we rarely delve into on the boards, but it's a very strong one and explains a lot.
i definately see that. i mean, if harmonians go on about being subtle then why can't we use subtle evidence?

[yxs]

Maybe you're - how did you put it? - "reading with your eyes closed."
That's really not fair

I say one thing, and it's brought up like I don't know what... when this thread is filled with insults and making fun when it comes to anyone who can speak for Harry/Hermione... direct, not so direct... all kinds.

And you know that

[daz]

Well i think Ron will get hurt because i just dont think Hermione fancys Ron. And thats part of life.

You cant go though live living in a bubble. You get hurt and you grow from it.


Everybody gets hurt in life. Its life.

[McBeth]

Well i think Ron will get hurt because i just dont think Hermione fancys Ron. And thats part of life.

You cant go though live living in a bubble. You get hurt and you grow from it.


Everybody gets hurt in life. Its life.

But what would be the point of Ron getting his heart broken in HP? It's completely expendable to the plot.

[yxs]

Look at what you are doing. You are saying that she said something untrue, in full knowledge that she would be uttering an untruth. In other words, you are calling JKR a liar. It's all up there above. I'm very sorry but it's this kind of behaviour, calling JKR a liar just because what she says doesn't tally with what you believe, that makes me lose respect. You're being totally biased here.
The thing is... I believe what's written in the books.
If JK says something that seems to go against it, she says something that goes against it.
That doesn't mean I AM CALLING her a liar... that simply means me describing what she's doing.


And you didn't even reply to my main post that I posted a while before my addition- unless I missed it?
Well... I don't know... I'm sorry then... there are loads of posts in here... maybe I missed it myself...
I apologise, again

[daz]

But what would be the point of Ron getting his heart broken in HP? It's completely expendable

Because JKR is writing about life. Harry goes though he*ll each book. Its all part of growing up. Who ever said Life is easy.

[yxs]

For me Daniel looks very much the part. He looks very much like Harry. Ginny h*ell no. Hermione is good. Dumbledore is not how i pictured him either. Ron is too goofy for me as well. Mcgonagall is very good casting as well. I like her.
Dan IS Harry... totally
Ginny... hm... well, yeah... for me she's quite Ginny...
Hermione is a lot prettier than she should be, but oh well...
Ron is ok... although you're right, too goofy... he was the best in the first movie

[McBeth]

Because JKR is writing about life. Harry goes though he*ll each book. Its all part of growing up. Who ever said Life is easy.

Of course Harry has troubles. That's because he's the main character - he's got to go through hardships or the book would be sugary-sweet nothingness.

But what's the point of having Ron go through unnecessary heartache? He's not the main character, it doesn't help the plot for him to moan all the time or have his heart broken. It's pointless.

[faiza]

It's interesting that you say Harmony and Moonlight are very similar. I think (I could be wrong of course) that you'll find that a lot of Harmonians prefer Moonlight to Chocolate if Harmony doesn't work out. That's how I feel anyway. I could be completely wrong... Harmonians, how do you feel about that?

I feel the same way, partly because of the similarities. But also because first Ginny is just Ron's little sister who has a crush on the great Harry Potter. Then we hear almost nothing from her for 2 books. And in OotP she's this powerful witch, who tells Harry off, kicks Malfoy's *ss, is great in Quidditch and has a boyfriend (who's a few years older). I feel a bit tricked. Luna on the other hand, is developed gradually.

Okay,you Harmonians are really making me angry.You are all VERY rude to us Herons.So now,I'm going to be rude back!Stic,bashing Ron is NOT going to change our minds about Ron/Hermione.In fact,I'm going to be more defensive about my opinions because of it.(In case you haven't noticed yet,I'm a HUGE Weasley fan.)Okay,so here goes my Ron/Hermione rant.

Now I'm offended and slightly angry. You can't just generalize all harmonians because maybe a few have been slightly rude. I haven't been rude (I think) and I haven't bashed Ron.

1)Ron deserves Hermione just as much as Harry does. And he might even deserve her MORE than Harry.
2)Harry already had his chance.
Yeah,that's right!He was already going with Cho.Ron should get a little romance too!
3)Why should Harry get a girl who's not even interested in him?


1. Hermione can decide for herself who she wants to be with. And why does Ron deserve her more?
2. That doesn't make any sense! Ron had a chance with Padma (a very pretty girl), he could've shown her the great, funny guy he is, but he ruined it, big time.
3. That's your opinion. I think Hermione is interested in Harry.

You truly think Ron regards Hermione the same way he regards Luna?

No, but he has called her mental, you can't deny that.

There isn't a Harry/Hermione/Ron Love Triangle - some people see it that way, but it isn't there, and we have no evidence that a Love Triangle will ever take place.

Not yet, but I believe there will be. That's only my opinion of course.

Whether Luna actually liked Ron or not, the supposed evidence that she did dwindled and died at about the half-way point of OotP.

But it was there and I don't think it was there just to fill up space. OotP is large enough already, without hints of Luna liking Ron for absolutely no reason.

[daz]

Neville has been hurt in the books. Ginny was heartbroken in COS. So each chreacter has a jouney.

A question for everybody on here.

How many people have been hurt in Relationships. Or liked Somebody and they have not returned the feelings.

[yxs]

A question for everybody on here.

How many people have been hurt in Relationships. Or liked Somebody and they have not returned the feelings.

It happens

So, yes, I am one

[delemtri]

Neville has been hurt in the books. Ginny was heartbroken in COS. So each chreacter has a jouney.

A question for everybody on here.

How many people have been hurt in Relationships. Or liked Somebody and they have not returned the feelings.

Me. Ron has too (Fleur in GOF).

[GrangerGal]

Well i think Ron will get hurt because i just dont think Hermione fancys Ron. And thats part of life.

You cant go though live living in a bubble. You get hurt and you grow from it.


Everybody gets hurt in life. Its life.
We don't know who Hermione likes. We are all certain Ron likes Hermione. And we know for a fact that as of the last page of OotP, Harry doesn't fancy Hermione.

[McBeth]

No, but he has called her mental, you can't deny that.

However, Ron does have some respect for Hermione. He's grateful to her for helping him out during emergencies. Ron simply regards Luna as a lunatic.

Not yet, but I believe there will be. That's only my opinion of course.

What's the point of adding a Love Triangle to the plot? It's completely expendable, and would cause heartache for the Trio that they don't need. JKR has said before what makes the Trio strong is there love for one another, and if a Love Triangle took place, it would sever and marr that love forever.

But it was there and I don't think it was there just to fill up space. OotP is large enough already, without hints of Luna liking Ron for absolutely no reason.

It could have been part of Luna's developing character - it easily might not have had anything to do with a crush on Ron.

It will likely be resolved in the end, however, if Luna ever had any feelings for Ron, because though they appear to be gone, people will still wonder.

[stic]

rupertfan123 Okay,you Harmonians are really making me angry.You are all VERY rude to us Herons.So now,I'm going to be rude back!Stic,bashing Ron is NOT going to change our minds about Ron/Hermione.I know I'm hard on Ron and even though tempers run high in this debate we're more likely to get down to the bottom of things if we really challenge each others' views and arguments. :tu:
Okay,to start,let's talk about people thinking Harry should get the girl and Ron doesn't deserve her.We analyse canon and end up with the opinion that Ron wants Hermione who wants Harry.
In my argumentation for example I explain why Hermione seems to be disinterested in Ron and his party, how she does not display the behaviour of someone who'd be in love with him. Nobody can argue with "He doesn't deserve her". :no:
2)Harry already had his chance.
Yeah,that's right!He was already going with Cho.Ron should get a little romance too! The poor, poor Ron :upset: Unfortunately no argument.
Okay,so now let's get into the evidence.See,for Harry/Hermione there isn't enough evidence.(or any,to say the least) :elaugh:
Book 2
Quote:
-"I'm quite surprised the Mudbloods haven't all packed their bags by now," Malfoy went on. "Bet you five Galleons the next one dies. Pity it wasn't Granger-"
The bell rang at that moment, which was lucky; at Malfoy's last words, Ron had leapt off his stool, and in the scramble to collect bags and books, his attempts to reach Malfoy went unnoticed.
Here is an alternative view to the defense-argument: http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=2435
Book 3 Quote:
-"Hermione, I don't know what's gotten into you lately!" said Ron, astounded. "First you hit Malfoy, then you walk out on Professor Trelawney-"
Hermione looked rather flattered.

Ron thinks that Hermione is very brave and cunning after doing what she did.Therefore,Ron finds Hermione more attractive. Hermione is flattered to get a compliment from Ron. Yes, she enjoys the respect for her actions. Nothing indicates that there's more to this. It would be totally in character for her to be flattered just as much if anybody else had made that comment.
Quote:"Don't be stupid," Hermione snapped, starting to pound up he beetles again. "No, it's just ... how did she know Viktor asked me to visit him over the summer?"
Hermione blushed scarlet as she said this, and determinedly avoided Ron's eyes.
"What?" said Ron, dropping his pestle with a loud clunk.
This shows that Hermione is afraid Ron might get the wrong impression Since the Jule Ball Hermione has known very well what Ron's impression of Hr/K is. :agree: And she knows precisely Ron would play drama-queen again. Ron continueally asks what she replied because he's afraid that Hermione does like Vicky and not him.Ron doesn't trust Krum at all at this point. He didn't believe Krum would date Hermione for Hermione's sake but rather for the sake of getting inside information on Harry through her to win that Tournament. :td:
And: Even if Ron has sufficiently solid feelings for Hermione at that point, it does not mean in any way that Hermione needs to return those feelings.Quote:"Thanks for the book, Harry," she said happily. "I've been wanting that New Theory of Numerology for ages! And that perfume's really unusual, Ron."
"No problem," said Ron. Canon: Harry's choice is dead-on and Hermione is undeniably glad about the gift. Harry's choice shows that he knows what she'd like, what's important to her. Hermione thanks Harry. :tu:
Hermione doesn't thank Ron. Her adjective that she describes Ron's present with is "unusual", the same word she chose for the Quibbler in Luna's presence to not offend her (again). Hermione's true opinion of the Quibbler is "rubbish".

[McBeth]

Neville has been hurt in the books. Ginny was heartbroken in COS. So each chreacter has a jouney.

Those are both very, very different from the possibility of Ron getting hurt.

Neville's parent's issue is part of the plot, Ginny's issue with Voldemort was part of the plot.

Ron getting heartbroken is not part of the plot - like I said before, it's completely expendable.

A question for everybody on here.

How many people have been hurt in Relationships. Or liked Somebody and they have not returned the feelings.

Considering I'm thirteen and refuse to be attracted to people simply by their looks, no, I have not.

[LilypadLollipop]

Harry's choice is dead-on and Hermione is undeniably glad about the gift. Harry's choice shows that he knows what she'd like, what's important to her. Hermione thanks Harry. :tu:
Hermione doesn't thank Ron. Her adjective that she describes Ron's present with is "unusual", the same word she chose for the Quibbler in Luna's presence to not offend her (again). Hermione's true opinion of the Quibbler is "rubbish".
i admit that Hermione may not have liked the perfume, but at least ron was nice enough to get her something different. it is the thought that counts ;)

[daz]

Why is Ron the poor little boy.

Harry has had a 10000% worst life than Ron but suddenly if Ron does not get the girl he is the poor little sad little boy. I would feel no pity for Ron. You make your own luck in this world.

[Melcb98]

i admit that Hermione may not have liked the perfume, but at least ron was nice enough to get her something different. it is the thought that counts ;)
Thats excatly right, its the thought that counts. Ron did somthing different for Christmas, something Hermione wasn't expecting.

[delemtri]

Why is Ron the poor little boy.

Harry has had a 10000% worst life than Ron but suddenly if Ron does not get the girl he is the poor little sad little boy. I would feel no pity for Ron. You make your own luck in this world.

Oh, it's not about feeling sorry for him. It's just that he's going to get her.

[Melcb98]

Since this thread is being a little boring right now I figured I'd post something. Here's a short analysis of the letters Harry receives from Ron and Hermione during the summer of POA.

<snip>

A few very notable things about this set of letters. Most stunning of all is the fact that Ron wrote to Hermione before he wrote to Harry - he must have simply written her a hello letter for the summer rather than timing it especially as he did for Harry's birthday. I won't spend too much time on Ron as it's really Hermione we're concerned with in this thread - who are we fooling? I could simply note the sheer number of times Hermione mentions Ron in her letter to Harry, including *beginning the letter with his name* and nearly expressing a wish to be with him in Egypt. Of course, there are possible H/H references in here as well - Hermione is worried about him (Ron was too) and wants to see him in London (Ron did too).

In GOF there are no letters - Harry is simply invited to the World Cup and ends up at the Burrow pretty quickly. In OOTP there are letters, but strangely enough the letters are always referred to as coming from "Ron and Hermione."

So what do we think? Is Hermione stuck on Ron without knowing it when she writes that letter? Or is there an alternate explanation?

I was going to bring this up at some point, too. To talk about something new. But, you missed one important part: In GOF, Ron had to have asked Hermione to the Quidditch World Cup before Harry, because by the time that Harry received Ron's letter, Ron already had an arrival time for Hermione to the burrow!

Hermione's letter in POA is very interesting though. She talks about Ron an awful lot in a letter that isn't very long.

If anything, this just shows people that Ron and Hermione are indeed friends, without Harry.

[faiza]

However, Ron does have some respect for Hermione. He's grateful to her for helping him out during emergencies. Ron simply regards Luna as a lunatic.

Remember Ron's first impression of Hermione? It wasn't very good. But it changed after he saw what a good person she really is. The same could apply to Luna. At first sight, she seems a bot loony. But don't you think his opinion of Luna changed after the DoM?

What's the point of adding a Love Triangle to the plot? It's completely expendable, and would cause heartache for the Trio that they don't need. JKR has said before what makes the Trio strong is there love for one another, and if a Love Triangle took place, it would sever and marr that love forever.

They would come out stronger and closer then ever before. It would be the ultimate test of their friendship.

Ron getting heartbroken is not part of the plot - like I said before, it's completely expendable.

It wouldn't be very realistic if Ron's lovelife wouldn't be explored. And most people don't find the love of their life in their first crush. So naturally Ron would get his hearth broken.

i admit that Hermione may not have liked the perfume, but at least ron was nice enough to get her something different. it is the thought that counts

Different isn't always good. You're right, it's the thought that counts. Harry thought about what Hermione would like and bought her a book (she loves books) of her favorite subject. One that she's wanted for ages.
Ron just got her a standard girl gift.

[AvadaKedavra]

The thing is... I believe what's written in the books.
If JK says something that seems to go against it, she says something that goes against it.
That doesn't mean I AM CALLING her a liar... that simply means me describing what she's doing.

Come on! You're saying that JKR is saying something that goes against what you believe is written in the books. Either you're calling JKR a liar, or you're mistaken.

Which is more likely:

-JKR being a liar
-or you being mistaken in what you believe is in the books.

What I see you doing is opting for the first because you don't think you're mistaken. That is true bias.

[LilypadLollipop]

They would come out stronger and closer then ever before. It would be the ultimate test of their friendship.


It wouldn't be very realistic if Ron's lovelife wouldn't be explored. And most people don't find the love of their life in their first crush. So naturally Ron would get his hearth broken.


first, a love triangle would not be good. Ron liked her first (which Harry knows) so even if Harry liked Hermione, and they got together, Ron wouldn't be their friend anymore. it would be utter betrayal. stealing the girl that your best friend has had a crush on for years is too mean for harry.
and ron's already had his heart broken slightly by Fleur, if she counts for anything.

[delemtri]

I was going to bring this up at some point, too. To talk about something new. But, you missed one important part: In GOF, Ron had to have asked Hermione to the Quidditch World Cup before Harry, because by the time that Harry received Ron's letter, Ron already had an arrival time for Hermione to the burrow!

Hermione's letter in POA is very interesting though. She talks about Ron an awful lot in a letter that isn't very long.

If anything, this just shows people that Ron and Hermione are indeed friends, without Harry.

Thanks! I think it's notable in this context that there are *three people* who he tends to think of as not only single people, but in pairs with each other: Ron, Hermione, and Ginny. Now if you'll excuse me, I think there's something delicious in my stocking...

[GrangerGal]

rupertfan123
Here is an alternative view to the defense-argument: http://talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=2435

I would like to take my hand at this...

1) Ron was NOT the one that reacted first. Take a look at the precise quote.

“No one asked your opinion, you filthy little Mudblood,” he spat.
Harry knew at once that Malfoy had said something really bad because there was an instant uproar at his words. Flint had to dive in front of Malfoy to stop Fred and George jumping on him, Alicia Spinnet shrieked, “How dare you!”, and Ron plunged his hand into his robes, pulled out his wand, yelling, “You’ll pay for that one, Malfoy!” and pointed it furiously under Flint’s arm at Malfoy’s face. (112; CoS, scholastic)The initial reaction came from Fred and George who wanted to JUMP on Malfoy for saying the word “Mudblood”. Notice that all the Weasleys are what they call, “Muggle lovers”, so it is perfectly natural for them to react this way.
The secondary reaction came from Alicia Spinnet, who we don’t know much about. It can be assumed that she doesn’t know Hermione well, if at all. Her reaction would be completely unnecessary unless the remark is extremely insulting, which it is.
If these three side-liners who didn’t really know Hermione reacted this way, then it is completely normal for one of her best-friend to attack Malfoy. It had nothing to do with Ron’s hidden crush with Hermione because he didn’t have a crush on her back then; he was simply acting on the word, “Mudblood”. Also, the fact that Ron tried to cast a spell instead of just charging at Malfoy like he usually does was because Flint was in front of Malfoy, protecting him from Fred and George. It was not because Ron felt any more offended by the term than Fred, George, and Alicia did.

We could also read this as all of these people did this at the very same time.


“2) Many R/Hers seemed to pick up on the fact that Harry didn’t do anything all throughout. However, they seem to forget that Harry didn’t know what the term, “Mudblood” meant at that time. True, Harry found out that it was something very degrading because of everyone else’s reaction. However, it would be stupid if he reacted on this simply because of everyone else’s reaction. The bottom line is, he was simply confused. It was later when both he and Hermione found out what the term meant in Hagrid’s hut. If Hermione had known what the term meant, undoubtedly, she would have defended herself..

Yes but this is not the last time Draco calls Hermione a m*dblood. I also think Harmonians get confused. We are not saying that Harry does not care about Hermione b/c of his lack of anger when she is called a m*dblood. Instead we are showing is that Ron does care about Hermione. Often some Harmonians act as though Ron does not like or care about Hermione; we are showing otherwise. We are also showing that these scenes reinforce Heron. We are not saying that these scenes ruin Harmony.


“It was c-cat hair!” she howled. “M-Millicent Bulstrode m-must have a cat! And the p-potion isn’t supposed to be used for animal transformation!”
“Uh-oh,” said Ron.
“You’ll be teased something dreadful,” said Myrtle happily.
“It’s okay, Hermione,” said Harry quickly, “We’ll take you up to the hospital wing. Madam Pomfrey never asks too many questions…” (225~226 CoS)

Notice Harry’s and Ron’s different reactions. Hermione was clearly very distraught. She was stumbling on every other word. Moaning Myrtle had clearly not been consoling her properly; instead, Myrtle was laughing and taunting her. Ron’s initial reaction was the BACK AWAY. It is definitely not a part of shock because Harry too, was surprised, but Harry didn’t back away. Ron was simply backing away because he was scared of Hermione’s new appearance. Hermione is not confident with her looks, and turning into a cat was her worst nightmare. She didn’t know how long the effects would last. She didn’t even know whether she’ll be able to turn back into human. Ron clearly did not even think about how Hermione felt. Instead of trying to console her, Ron’s first words were, “Uh-oh” and Mrytle’s teasing clearly was not helping the case. So Harry quickly suggested going to the hospital wing. Harry saw how distraught and upset Hermione was and tried quickly to comfort her. It was Harry’s suggestion that brought her out of the bathroom, not Ron’s..

Right! That is a very good point. However there is no disputing that Harry cares about Hermione. There are some people who think that Ron does not care about Hermione. We also have to remember Harry is used to going to the hospital wing so he would have some clue as to how Madame Pomfrey would react. Ron has never been there.


“This is a scene after Hermione has been petrified.
“I’m quite surprised the Mudbloods haven’t all packed their bags by now,” Malfoy went on. “Bet you five Galleons the next one dies. Pity it wasn’t Granger---”
The bell rang at that moment, which was lucky; at Malfoy’s last words, Ron had leapt off his stool, and in the scramble to collect his bags and books, his attempts to reach Malfoy went unnoticed.
“Let me at him,” Ron growled as Harry and Dean hung onto his arms. “I don’t care, I don’t need my wand, I’m going to kill him with my bare hands---” (267)Harry and Ron are different people. Ron is rash and hot-tempered, but Harry knows when to keep a cool head. We do not know how Harry really felt. JK had cleverly maneuvered her way through all of Harry’s emotions regarding Hermione’s petrification. Notice that, Hermione again, was not there to hear Malfoy say this. It was useless trying to punch the brains out of Malfoy because it wouldn’t do any good. It wouldn’t bring Hermione back from petrification. It certainly wouldn’t change anything, besides 50 points fewer for Gryffindor..
Well this argument would work except that Harry does not keep his temper in OotP.

The essay goes on to explain how they both think of Hermione and are worried about her. I am not going to dispute any of it. However I think that it does nothing to support Harry's love of Hermione. We can see into Harry's thoughts and he has never expressed anything but friendship in regards to Hermione. On the other hand, we can all agree that Ron likes Hermione. As for Hermione, I think she likes Ron. There is a great deal of evidence in GoF and some in the rest of the books. I have seen no more evidence that points to the fact that she likes Harry.

[faiza]

first, a love triangle would not be good. Ron liked her first (which Harry knows) so even if Harry liked Hermione, and they got together, Ron wouldn't be their friend anymore. it would be utter betrayal. stealing the girl that your best friend has had a crush on for years is too mean for harry.
and ron's already had his heart broken slightly by Fleur, if she counts for anything.


If Ron's a real friend, he would be happy for his 2 best friends. If Hermione doesn't return his feelings, he should look elsewhere. That means she's not the girl for him, so why can't Harry be with her?

[GrangerGal]

If Ron's a real friend, he would be happy for his 2 best friends. If Hermione doesn't return his feelings, he should look elsewhere. That means she's not the girl for him, so why can't Harry be with her?
And vice versa if Hermione likes Ron.

What would a love triangle do for the book?

[LilypadLollipop]

If Ron's a real friend, he would be happy for his 2 best friends. If Hermione doesn't return his feelings, he should look elsewhere. That means she's not the girl for him, so why can't Harry be with her?
cause it's just mean! i have a friend, who's two years older then me, she liked a guy (we'll call him Bob). And she had liked him for like 4 years, but then she found out he didn't like her. So one of her other friends (i think she's called Angie...?) decided to go out with bob which absolutely destroyed my friend, who know is not friends with Angie nor Bob. it's just in the friend code book not to do stuff like that because you know you'll hurt your best friend.

[delemtri]

If Ron's a real friend, he would be happy for his 2 best friends. If Hermione doesn't return his feelings, he should look elsewhere. That means she's not the girl for him, so why can't Harry be with her?

There's the small problem of him not wanting to.

[yxs]

Come on! You're saying that JKR is saying something that goes against what you believe is written in the books. Either you're calling JKR a liar, or you're mistaken.

Which is more likely:

-JKR being a liar
-or you being mistaken in what you believe is in the books.

What I see you doing is opting for the first because you don't think you're mistaken. That is true bias.

Why should I be mistaken if I see both sides of the story?
It's not like I close my eyes and ignore all clues, no matter where they come from. I consider the clues for Ron/Hermione AND for Hermione/Harry. If I see what Herons see, doesn't mean that I don't see what Harmonians see.
I don't know how it's possible for us to figure out who Hermione loves right now. Those who claim they can tell that 100% are the ones in denial in my opinion. Or biased.
It is simply not clear.

[delemtri]

And it is highly noteworthy that Harry is cognizant of Ron and Hermione's "something going on" as of the Yule Brawl in GOF, and so it informs his decision to go out with Cho in OOTP.

[daz]

Harry will relize what Hermiony means to him. Harry has had so many problems he has not realized thay the girl is looking for is under his nose.

And Hermione will wait for him. She understands what Harrys life is like.

[faiza]

What would a love triangle do for the book?

It would be a way for Ron to deal with his feelings. And if/when they remain friends after the whole thing, it would show the great friendship they have. A friendship strong enough to overcome a love triangle, can overcome anything. Even the darkest, most powerful wizard of all times.

cause it's just mean!


It would be mean of Ron not to let them be together, even though hermione doesn't want to be with him.

There's the small problem of him not wanting to.

Not yet.

[LilypadLollipop]

It would be a way for Ron to deal with his feelings. And if/when they remain friends after the whole thing, it would show the great friendship they have. A friendship strong enough to overcome a love triangle, can overcome anything. Even the darkest, most powerful wizard of all times.
although that would be kinda cute and all, if this is supposed to be realistic to life, they won't remain friends. if ron gets all worked up when harry beats him at gettin into the triwizard tournament or whatever, then he will be insanely mad losing the girl he's liked for years to him.

[delemtri]

Harry will relize what Hermiony means to him. Harry has had so many problems he has not realized thay the girl is looking for is under his nose.

Canon?

And Hermione will wait for him. She understands what Harrys life is like.

Canon? and WHAT? How can Hermione possibly understand what Harry's life is like? A fifteen-year-old know-it-all understands what it means to find yourself destined to battle the most powerful wizard in history? Yeah, I'm sure she totally digs that.

It would be mean of Ron not to let them be together, even though hermione doesn't want to be with him.

Good thing she does, then.

Not yet.

Do you have canon for your expectation or mere blind faith? (I'm not knocking blind faith, it's just hard to talk about it.)

[faiza]

although that would be kinda cute and all, if this is supposed to be realistic to life, they won't remain friends. if ron gets all worked up when harry beats him at gettin into the triwizard tournament or whatever, then he will be insanely mad losing the girl he's liked for years to him.

You don't know that. Every situation is different. Besides Ron has and will mature. He won't always be the jealous git he was in the beginning of GOF. Isn't that one of the arguments of herons? Ron maturing?

[Melcb98]

Harry will relize what Hermiony means to him. Harry has had so many problems he has not realized thay the girl is looking for is under his nose.

And Hermione will wait for him. She understands what Harrys life is like.
Hermione means a lot to Harry, they are great friends. Harry knows that already, he doesn't need to realize it.

It is not written within the books that Hermione is the one for Harry. Show me the canon that states that Hermione will wait for Harry, thank you.

Yes, Hermione does understand what Harry's life is like, to an extent. She can't possibely know what he is going through, illistrated in OotP.

[GrangerGal]

You don't know that. Every situation is different. Besides Ron has and will mature. He won't always be the jealous git he was in the beginning of GOF. Isn't that one of the arguments of herons? Ron maturing?
That is the exact argument of Heron. Once Ron matures (the way James did with Lily) Hermione will accept his love. She already likes him but she is waiting for him to accept it. ;) I am not saying your theory can't work but where is your evidence that Harry likes Hermione and where is your evidence that Hermione likes Harry more than Ron?

[faiza]

Good thing she does, then.

That is your opinion and I have mine.



Do you have canon for your expectation or mere blind faith? (I'm not knocking blind faith, it's just hard to talk about it.)

I believe you have heard all the arguments of us Harmonians a thousand times before.

Show me the canon that states that Hermione will wait for Harry, thank you.

She hasn't been with anyone after Victor, has she?

[LilypadLollipop]

That is the exact argument of Heron. Once Ron matures (the way James did with Lily) Hermione will accept his love. She already likes him but she is waiting for him to accept it. ;) I am not saying your theory can't work but where is your evidence that Harry likes Hermione and where is your evidence that Hermione likes Harry more than Ron?
i second everything she said in that ;) :tu:

[delemtri]

That is your opinion and I have mine.

But mine is based in canon.

I believe you have heard all the arguments of us Harmonians a thousand times before.

Link me something then. The simple fact that somebody may have successfully argued your point somewhere along the line doesn't mean that you don't need to provide evidence for your assertions.

[daz]

I could bring up loads of canon for my ship But 1 its been said and 2 some Herons dont want to listen. So whats the point.

[delemtri]

She hasn't been with anyone after Victor, has she?

She could just as easily be waiting for Ron. Or Neville. Or Trevor.

I could bring up loads of canon for my ship But 1 its been said and 2 some Herons dont want to listen. So whats the point.

I want to listen. Say it. Say your canon. Until you say it, your argument is mere assertion.

[faiza]

She could just as easily be waiting for Ron. Or Neville. Or Trevor.

So why not Harry?

[Misao7]

I have seen no more evidence that points to the fact that she likes Harry.

O_O *blinks* Excuse me? No evidence, she says...let me give you just one bit of evidence, one of many.

"Are you all right, Harry?" Hermione asked, peering at him over the tip of her quill.
Harry gave a halfhearted shrug. In truth, he didn't know whether he was all right or not. "What's up?" said Ron, hoisting himself up on his elbow to get a clearer view of Harry. "What's happened?"
Harry didn't quite know how to set about telling them, and still wasn't sure whether he wanted to. Just as he had decided not to say anything, Hermione took matters out of his hands.
"Is it Cho?" she asked in a businesslike way. "Did she corner you after the meeting?"
Numbly surprised, Harry nodded. Ron sniggered, breaking off when Hermione caught his eye.
"So-er-what did she want?" he asked in a mock casual voice.
"She-" Harry began, rather hoarsely; he cleared his throat and tried again. "She-er-"
"Did you kiss?" asked Hermione briskly.
Ron sat up so fast that he sent his ink bottle flying all over the rug. Disregarding this completely he stared avidly at Harry.
"Well?" he demanded.
Harry looked from Ron's expression of mingled curiousity and hilarity to Hermione's slight frown, and nodded.
"HA!"
Ron made a triumphant gesture with his fist and went into a raucous peal of laughter that made several timid-looking second years over beside the window jump. A reluctant grin spread over Harry's face as he watched Ron rolling around on the hearthrug. Hermione have Ron a look of deep disgust and returned to her letter.
"Well?" Ron said finally, looking up at Harry. "How was it?"
Harry considered for a moment.
"Wet," he said truthfully.
Ron made a noise that might have indicated jubilation or disgust, it was hard to tell.
"Because she was crying," Harry continued heavily.
"Oh," said Ron, his smile fading slightly. "Are you that bad at kissing?"
"Dunno," said Harry, who hadn't considered this, and immediately felt worried. "Maybe I am."
"Of course you're not," said Hermione absently, still scribbling away at her letter.
"How do you know?" Ron said in a sharp voice.

This passage reeks of H/Hr.

1) Hermione's the one to ask Harry whether he's okay or not, in the middle of her apparently very engaging letter to Viktor Krum.

2) Hermione 'takes matters out of his hands' and asks in a 'businesslike way' whether Cho 'cornered' him after the meeting or not. Hm. Interesting word choice. 'Cornered' makes it sound like she wants to believe Harry didn't want to kiss Cho...

3) After Ron's little bout, she asks him 'briskly', as if it were a task she would rather have not to do, whether they kissed.

4) She's very quick to reassure Harry that 'of course' he's not a bad kisser, only after Harry expresses doubt himself at his kissing ability, and not while Ron's suggesting it.

Conclusion: Hermione didn't want Harry to kiss Cho. She spoke of it as though it were a chore that she hated to ask about. ^__^ Wonder why?

Oh, and later in the passage she goes on to call Ron an 'insensitive wart' with the 'emotional range of a teaspoon'. Oh, yes, very nice words to call a person you're in love with. I'd just love for my boyfriend to be an 'insensitive wart' with the 'emotional range of a teaspoon'. (Which by the way, he is NOT!)

[delemtri]

So why not Harry?

So why not anybody else? You can just pick a name out of a hat and choose your ship like that.

Daz, here is the post I would love to see canon for.

Harry will relize what Hermiony means to him. Harry has had so many problems he has not realized thay the girl is looking for is under his nose.
And Hermione will wait for him. She understands what Harrys life is like.

Here are the assertions you need to substantiate.

1a) Hermione means something special to Harry.
1b) Harry will realize that.
2) Hermione is the girl Harry is looking for.
3a) Hermione is interested in Harry.
3b) Hermione is willing to wait for Harry.
4) Hermione understands what Harry's life is like.

And Misao, nice post, but that passage fits nicely with the theory we were discussing just a bit earlier about Hermione waiting through OOTP for Ron to "make a move." Harry's encounter with Cho hits home a bit for her so she feels a bit out of it and writes a letter to Krum (intentionally making Ron jealous).

[Melcb98]

I could bring up loads of canon for my ship But 1 its been said and 2 some Herons dont want to listen. So whats the point.
We are asking you to bring up canon for your statements. There is a huge point in doing that.
For instance, I asked for canon for this statement:

Harry has had so many problems he has not realized thay the girl is looking for is under his nose.

And Hermione will wait for him.

And, I'm very interested.

Second, you aren't exactly the best judgement of "not wanting to listen." I wouldn't go around criticizing Heron's (and generalizing) for not listening, when you don't listen to our points, either. Besides, we listen- and we have counter-arguments. You, Daz, need to provide canon for the above statement.

[faiza]

Harry's encounter with Cho hits home a bit for her so she feels a bit out of it and writes a letter to Krum (intentionally making Ron jealous).

She didn't even know about what had happened with Cho when she started writing the letter. And do you really believe she would intentionally make Ron jealous? It seemed to me, she didn't like it when Ron started making fun of Victor and when Ron commented she just ignored him.

[Misao7]

And Misao, nice post, but that passage fits nicely with the theory we were discussing just a bit earlier about Hermione waiting through OOTP for Ron to "make a move." Harry's encounter with Cho hits home a bit for her so she feels a bit out of it and writes a letter to Krum (intentionally making Ron jealous).

Fair enough, Delemtri, but remember this: Ron and Hermione had all summer together at Grimmauld Place to 'make a move'. Then maybe you'll say that Hermione 'throwing herself onto Harry in a hug that nearly knocked him flat' was also to make Ron jealous (OotP Chapter 4, page 62 American version) but Harry had only been in the room for 'a glimpse', and...this is kind of iffy, but it WAS Ron's owl, Pig, that flies around their heads. ^___^ Ron also 'closes the door, grinning'.

[daz]

This says it way better than i ever could. so Enjoy

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-player01.shtml

[delemtri]

Fair enough, Delemtri, but remember this: Ron and Hermione had all summer together at Grimmauld Place to 'make a move'. Then maybe you'll say that Hermione 'throwing herself onto Harry in a hug that nearly knocked him flat' was also to make Ron jealous (OotP Chapter 4, page 62 American version) but Harry had only been in the room for 'a glimpse', and...this is kind of iffy, but it WAS Ron's owl, Pig, that flies around their heads. ^___^

It's very iffy. I love the image of Pig flying, and I love that Harmony uses that as evidence because it's beautiful. But I can't in good faith allow it to stand as a point of argument. I think it's partly because Ron and Hermione were together for so long that Hermione is so fed up with Ron's lack of - anything. It's frustrating, and the Love Thread is evidence that readers are a bit frustrated too - we don't really know what's going on because things have been a bit too similar for a bit too long. As for the hug, well, I hug lots of people, especially people who have just battled Voldemort and saw somebody die and who I've been withholding information from all summer. Actually, that's never happened. But if it did, I'd hug them.

[faiza]

But mine is based in canon.

So is mine.


Link me something then. The simple fact that somebody may have successfully argued your point somewhere along the line doesn't mean that you don't need to provide evidence for your assertions.

I don't know if it's my computer, but both portkey and symbolic flight are very slow and not all links work. How about I provide you a link tomorrow.

[delemtri]

This says it way better than i ever could. so Enjoy

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-player01.shtml

Part of your assertion was that Hermione was right for Harry, not merely that Harry was right for Hermione. Mind picking me out a quote from this article that demonstrates that?

I don't know if it's my computer, but both portkey and symbolic flight are very slow and not all links work. How about I provide you a link tomorrow.

I've been to them. You can copy and paste from there if you like. Mostly I want specific quotes relating to what we're talking about, not just general here's-some-H/H-canon-that-I-read-about stuff.

[Misao7]

All right, then, what about Buckbeak, the Hippogriff that symbolizes love? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Harry and Hermione who rode the Hippogriff.

[delemtri]

All right, then, what about Buckbeak, the Hippogriff that symbolizes love? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Harry and Hermione who rode the Hippogriff.

And it was Fawkes who saved Harry and Ginny's lives. Also, the original character from the play with the hippogriff/love symbolism - Orlando Furioso, wasn't it? - was named Ginevra.

[Melcb98]

This says it way better than i ever could. so Enjoy
I asked for canon- from you, not to be directed to an essay.

If you can't provide me with that, say so.

[faiza]

And it was Fawkes who saved Harry and Ginny's lives. Also, the original character from the play with the hippogriff/love symbolism - Orlando Furioso, wasn't it? - was named Ginevra.


That may be true, but still...Did Ginny ride the hippogriff with Harry? No. In fact, how many sentences did Ginny say in PoA? Was it one, or two?

[Melcb98]

All right, then, what about Buckbeak, the Hippogriff that symbolizes love? Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was Harry and Hermione who rode the Hippogriff.
And, Hermione hated being on it. Sirius was with them. Ron and Hermione practiced on one together before Harry/Hermione's trip. The hippogriff also symbolizes impossible love- and nowhere does JKR say that she uses that symbolism in these books. Thats that very short version of why that doesn't really work.

[delemtri]

That may be true, but still...Did Ginny ride the hippogriff with Harry? No. In fact, how many sentences did Ginny say in PoA? Was it one, or two?

I wonder where JKR got the name from, though. Weird.

So we've asked for canon and instead of direct textual evidence of interest on either side - there's a gaping dearth of evidence towards Harry's interest in Hermione, far more gaping than Heron's in trying to prove Hermione's interest in Ron - you give us Buckbeak and Pig. I'll keep it in mind.

Incidentally, even if the hippogriff is symbolic, it's more likely symbolic of the impossibility of what they're doing - going back in time - in combination with the unhappy impossibility of truly saving Sirius's life (we know it's impossible because he died in OOTP). He is, after all, the only person to whom Harry would go to "any lengths" to save (from Dumbledore).

[Misao7]

And it was Fawkes who saved Harry and Ginny's lives. Also, the original character from the play with the hippogriff/love symbolism - Orlando Furioso, wasn't it? - was named Ginevra.

So now you're an H/G shipper. Here's part of an article on why H/G is not going to work. If you need anything else to prove its points, I can supply them.

While it can be argued that Harry will end up paired with Ginny as more and more of her character is revealed to Harry and the reader, it is also firmly within literary tradition for an author to create incentives for a certain romantic outcome by making certain that the readers are emotionally invested in the potential love interest. In that case, Rowling has certainly spotlighted Hermione, both in terms of her individual accomplishments and strengths, and also as part of a dynamic partnership with Harry. By contrast, Ginny's development has been sparse and is largely off-page (testimonials from her brothers and tidbits from Hermione), thereby creating a situation where a large number of readers are not at this stage emotionally invested in her as the hero's love interest. Rowling used that technique already to make sure that readers were not emotionally invested in Cho as Harry's romantic partner. She accomplished this by filtering Cho entirely through Hermione: virtually everything the reader learns or hears about Cho is related by Hermione. The reader isn't given the chance to feel any romantic rush when Harry kissed Cho, as that first kiss was off-page. So, the reader doesn't ever feel any connection to Cho. I believe she's using this same technique with Ginny. And, I believe that she has made certain that readers are very emotionally invested in Hermione, though naturally not all readers want her paired up with the hero.

And if you want the source article:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-harry-hermione.html

[Melcb98]

And it was Fawkes who saved Harry and Ginny's lives. Also, the original character from the play with the hippogriff/love symbolism - Orlando Furioso, wasn't it? - was named Ginevra.
Hmmmm, thats interesting.

[Misao7]

What about you guys, then? Can I see some canon R/Hr evidence?

[faiza]

So we've asked for canon and instead of direct textual evidence of interest on either side - there's a gaping dearth of evidence towards Harry's interest in Hermione, far more gaping than Heron's in trying to prove Hermione's interest in Ron - you give us Buckbeak and Pig. I'll keep it in mind.

I wasn't too sure about Harry's feelings for Hermione either. But the scene that convinced me of Harry's underlying feelings for Hermione was his dream, the one where Cho turns into Hermione. Care to explain that?

[delemtri]

So now you're an H/G shipper. Here's part of an article on why H/G is not going to work. If you need anything else to prove its points, I can supply them.

And if you want the source article:

http://www.hp-lexicon.org/essays/essay-harry-hermione.html

I found it unimpressive. I am emotionally invested in Ginny, so it's basically speaking nonsense to me.

I wasn't too sure about Harry's feelings for Hermione either. But the scene that convinced me of Harry's underlying feelings for Hermione was his dream, the one where Cho turns into Hermione. Care to explain that?

His dreams always have people turning into other people - see the dream he has his first night at Hogwarts in PS/SS. It's the way he dreams - I don't dream that way, but it's the way JKR writes them.

[Misao7]

Two things we ask of all Herons:

1) Canon evidence like my first post in this thread supporting R/Hr
2) Explanations that explain away H/Hr moments. I can give explanations contradicting R/Hr moments.

[delemtri]

What about you guys, then? Can I see some canon R/Hr evidence?

You can feel free to respond to my post about the letters in POA. Last time I presented canon you said "Fair enough" so I'm not really chomping at the bit to prove anything here.

[lightinthedark]

i think that it will turn out to be H/G which originally jk was going for but it got lost between books 3 n 4 but at the end of book 5 she gavee us a little hint that ginny n harry might come up in the hbp what do you think
hermione n ron 4 eva :love: