Who Will fall in love with whom? v.42

[LilypadLollipop]

well, i'm just gonna say
MERRY CHRISTMAS, even to harmonians :p

[The Garbage Man]

I apologize for my last post. It was uncalled for.

Still, Garbage Man, I think that if we disagree on what constitutes canon, we'll never achieve a proper discussion.

That's quite all right...I addressed you tersely as well...

Yet you have failed to show where JKR's backdoor in the case of the Press Club quote is. You have asserted, but failed to provide even a hint of proof, that the question/answer refers only to GoF, or at least can refer to GoF only, without JKR purposefully doing something that can only be called lying. Please show proof of this.

As you wish...though I would use the word 'misleading' over 'lying'. I'll do you one better than what you requested. The real question/answer is this:

JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]

The question could very well be referring to having a date to the Yule Ball (As JKR established that there would be a dance that year in Hogwarts in a previous interview it would be easy to assume that) Heck, maybe Harry and hermione never have a date in the series. They've known each other for the past five years, wouldn't a date be redundant? As for platonic: We've all read thirty different interpretations of this word. Here's the back door: Platonic has about ten different definitions; one of them being the stage between first meeting and first kiss. They're relationship can be described as platonic, as, as of yet, they are not romantically involved.

Oh, and by the way, it's presumptuous to assume that just because H/Hr is described as platonic it means that R/HR is going to happen.

Anyway, here's a quote for you:


Dear Ms. Rowling, I'd like to ask if there would be a lot of romances between the characters in the upcoming books?

Good question. I'm having so much fun writing Book 4 because for the first time Harry, Ron, and Hermoine are starting to recognize boys and girls as boys and girls. Everyone is in love with the wrong people. Let no one say my books lack realism. http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/0999-barnesnoble-staff.htm

This, obviously, is directly related to book 4. IT states that 'everyone is in love with the wrong person'. Meaning: Harry is wrong to fancy Cho, Hermione is wrong to fancy Krum, and Ron is wrong to fancy Hermione. Unless, of course, you're saying that Ron doesnt like Hr in book four, in which case Heron takes a hit. Honestly, this is why I don't like quotes from JKr. They tell us everythign and nothing. I didn't want to bring the quote up since frankly I dislike stating quotes as proof for anything, but there it is. It doesn't go out and say H/HR, but removes the R/HR obstacle.

Touche.

Sorry for the long time it took to type this. I endeavored to find exact quotes for you so we can see the ambiguity in its purest form.

I look forward to your response.

[tarachristwen]

1) ron and hermione
2) harry and luna
3) harry and ginny
4) hermione and draco
5) ron and luna

[haha]

In my opinion Harry and Hermione are just not right for each other. Hermione and Ron like each other thats why they're so horrible to each other. They know that they like the other but they don't want to admit it so they cover it up behind a hostile exterior. Harry and Ginny are a different matter though, expecially because of what jk wrote at the end of the fifth book.

Ginny was telling them how she'd broken up with Micheal, and Ron got happy and giving Harry a significant look, kept saying that he hoped she'd do better next time. In my opinion that's a HUGE hint of what's in store for Harry's love life :D

Well that's my oipnion anyways, and I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned as I'm sure it has. I'll just say that i agree with all the Harry/Ginny and Ron/Hermione shippers :D

[Corbin Dallas]

Dear Ms. Rowling, I'd like to ask if there would be a lot of romances between the characters in the upcoming books?

Good question. I'm having so much fun writing Book 4 because for the first time Harry, Ron, and Hermoine are starting to recognize boys and girls as boys and girls. Everyone is in love with the wrong people. Let no one say my books lack realism.
http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/ar...noble-staff.htm
This, obviously, is directly related to book 4. IT states that 'everyone is in love with the wrong person'. Meaning: Harry is wrong to fancy Cho, Hermione is wrong to fancy Krum, and Ron is wrong to fancy Hermione.

Well maybe but Jo clarifies who Ron was after in Goblet

[Will Ron ever get a girlfriend?] I'm laughing again... why wouldn't he?! Though he's not doing too well at the moment, is he? But then, Fleur Delacour was really aiming a bit high.

http://www.sugarquill.net/index.php?action=gringotts&st=quotesron
and then verifies it here ...

sammyohyeah asks: Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of GOF? I love your books, btw, and two of them I've read stright through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
jkrowling_bn: well done on the reading speed!
jkrowling_bn: yes, something's 'going on'...
jkrowling_bn: but Ron doesn't realise it yet...
jkrowling_bn: typical boy
http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/quickquotes/articles/2000/1000-yahooligans.html
So the part where you say Ron is after or Fancies Hermione is refuted by Jo's assertion that Ron was aiming for Fleur and doesn't even realize there's something there with Hermione, ths the Couric interview is no contradiction, infact it's more reinforcement of the fact that the author interprets her own work as that Ron/Hermione > Harry/Hermione, get me ;) '-
MERRY CHRISTMAS everyone
CD
PS
Either JKR can't make up her mind or she's deliberately misleading people...in other words, interview quotes are nonsense.
No she's had it all planned from before the first book was published and your statement here Garbage Man just goes to show that if you don't pay attention, you miss out, but her intentional misleading as you would characterize it doesn't exist. Also if you think her quotes are nonsense are then saying that her site is too, that HBP isn't ready and won't be out in July, that Luna and Neville will fall in love, Hermione and Drac will too? C'mon read all her quotes, you've been to Quickquills they're all there, Jo is amazingly consistent and when's she's made a mistake, she herself will mention it and correct it, example, the ages of Bill and Charlie, the unexpected length of Order and Hermione's age.

[Hannibal "Drax" Lecter]

Ron got happy and giving Harry a significant look, kept saying that he hoped she'd do better next time. In my opinion that's a HUGE hint of what's in store for Harry's love life

I don't get it. You're saying Ron dictates Harry's love life?

[Corbin Dallas]

Wanted to follow up on the Platonic Quote,


JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink.
http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/articles/1999/1099-pressclubtransc.html
the next time Jo was asked about Harry and Hermione is here and Jo's answer is revealing...

Goldhook is looking to the future... Ms. Rowling, can you discuss the possiblity of a central character dying? AND as Harry mature's does a love interest develop between he and Hermonine? Thank you.
Well, as I said, there will be deaths, but I am giving nothing away there, as for Harry & Hermione... d'you really think they're suited?
http://www.sugarquill.net/index.php?action=gringotts&st=quoteshermione
I know Harmony will say she's not really answering but Jo's intent is clear, especially if you've read her transcripts, when she says do you really think... she means "no" :evil: , get me '-
CD
PS
I don't have the link but I believe mrs bombadil has done an extensive post on thiss fact as well as Angua9, if anyone has a link to their posts on this Owl me and I'll add it here :tu:

[TheMagicHat]

I don't get it. You're saying Ron dictates Harry's love life?
Actually, that comment was directed more towards Ginny than Harry. So it's more like Ron's trying to dictate Ginny's love life.

[delemtri]

I don't get it. You're saying Ron dictates Harry's love life?

It's just interesting to know how the actual characters in the books ship (Ron: H/G and R/H, naturally; Hermione is obviously up in the air depending on which boy she likes - I think it's fair to say, however, that if she's not interested in Harry she would be *very* supportive of his dating Ginny).

[jopotter]

Dear Ms. Rowling, I'd like to ask if there would be a lot of romances between the characters in the upcoming books?

Good question. I'm having so much fun writing Book 4 because for the first time Harry, Ron, and Hermoine are starting to recognize boys and girls as boys and girls. Everyone is in love with the wrong people. Let no one say my books lack realism. http://www.quick-quote-quill.org/ar...noble-staff.htm


This, obviously, is directly related to book 4. IT states that 'everyone is in love with the wrong person'. Meaning: Harry is wrong to fancy Cho, Hermione is wrong to fancy Krum, and Ron is wrong to fancy Hermione.

Actually I think it meant that Harry is wrong to fancy Cho, Hermione is wrong to fancy Krum and Ron is wrong to fancy Fleur. I don't think we should take 'in love' literally. Was Harry really in love with Cho? Was Hermione really in love with Krum? Was Ron really in love with Fleur? NO.

Unless, of course, you're saying that Ron doesnt like Hr in book four, in which case Heron takes a hit. Honestly, this is why I don't like quotes from JKr. They tell us everythign and nothing. I didn't want to bring the quote up since frankly I dislike stating quotes as proof for anything, but there it is. It doesn't go out and say H/HR, but removes the R/HR obstacle.

Yes, Ron likes Hermione in book 4, but he didn't realise it at the time:
Q: Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of Goblet of Fire? I love your books, by the way, and two of them I've read straight through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
JK: Well done on the reading speed! Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy

JKR: *looking through questions* No, don’t like that one. Oh, I like this one… do Harry and Hermione have a date? [laughter] No. They are – they’re very platonic friends. But I won’t answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink. [laughter and sound of kids going “Aaah!”]


The question could very well be referring to having a date to the Yule Ball (As JKR established that there would be a dance that year in Hogwarts in a previous interview it would be easy to assume that)
But the question did not refer to the Yule Ball or any particular book at all. JK wasn't specific to any particular book. If she was referring to the Yule Ball or book 4 specifically she would've said it like this:

Question: Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley?
JK Rowling: In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind ;)
This question was asked with no reference to any book in particular (just like the 'platonic' question) and JK was very specific - she referred to book 4. So in the platonic question, if she meant the Yule Ball or book 4, wouldn't she have said so? The very fact is, JK said that Harry and Hermione won't date AND that they are platonic friends (note: no one asked her if Harry and Hermione were platonic friends, she gave us this info to reaffirm her "No"). So, I think if JK meant that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends in Goblet of Fire in the platonic question, she would have said so. Matter of fact is she didn't, which I think means she was talking about the whole series.

Heck, maybe Harry and hermione never have a date in the series. They've known each other for the past five years, wouldn't a date be redundant?
No, I don't think a date would be redundant. I think that going on a date with someone is a pretty big deal for teenagers (Harry had his first big date in OotP). And... How else would you differentiate going out with a friend (you know, just as friends) and going out with a girl friend? This is especially important if a love relationship should blossom between H/Hr or R/Hr because they are best friends.

As for platonic: We've all read thirty different interpretations of this word. Here's the back door: Platonic has about ten different definitions; one of them being the stage between first meeting and first kiss. They're relationship can be described as platonic, as, as of yet, they are not romantically involved.
Well, as JK has said that Harry and Hermione are platonic friends,it means that they are on that stage between first meeting and first kiss. Seeing as they won't date, I guess they'll remain there and won't go to that first kiss.

[haha]

I don't get it. You're saying Ron dictates Harry's love life?

No, you've got me all wrong. I'm not saying BECAUSE of Ron, Harry starts to like Ginny, I mean in the book it mentions that he wasn't even paying attention to what he was doing at the time. What i AM saying is that maybe that little bit at the end was a hint of the possibility of Harry and Ginny as a couple. Sorry i didn't mean to be so obscure.

[daz]

All so Food for thought. When JKR gets asked this questions the fans all ways ask if H/HR are getting together. Not R/HR. Because Harry and Hermione are the more popular couple in life. Just not on the net.

[haha]

Actually, that comment was directed more towards Ginny than Harry. So it's more like Ron's trying to dictate Ginny's love life.

that i agree with, i suppose as the older brother he feels the need, but i highly doubt that he would be able to impact on who she picks on. i have a feeling she'll pick whoever she likes, with or without Ron's support.

[delemtri]

All so Food for thought. When JKR gets asked this questions the fans all ways ask if H/HR are getting together. Not R/HR. Because Harry and Hermione are the more popular couple in life. Just not on the net.

So H/H is more popular, but R/H is the obvious one? I'm confused!

[daz]

Well for me R/HR is too Obvious. I dont see it happening. I see Luna and Ron.

But no matter what i dont see R/HR. Even if H/HR dont get together that does not change my mind on Luna and Ron. They both suit each other. IMO

All i was saying is H.HR is the peoples choice. R/HR is the internet choice.

[delemtri]

Well for me R/HR is too Obvious. I dont see it happening. I see Luna and Ron.

But no matter what i dont see R/HR. Even if H/HR dont get together that does not change my mind on Luna and Ron. They both suit each other. IMO

Why wouldn't the "obvious" couple also be the "popular" one?

[haha]

All so Food for thought. When JKR gets asked this questions the fans all ways ask if H/HR are getting together. Not R/HR. Because Harry and Hermione are the more popular couple in life. Just not on the net.

Just because they're popular doesn't mean its always true. I remember once someone asked about H/HR and jk said something like 'is that what you think?' but when the person said they were only kidding and what about R/HR jk said something like 'now there's some tension there'. To me that seems like her saying that R/HR are getting together.

On a DVD of PS she said that she told some of the directors to not take out little bits cause they help with the following movies, so there are hints in the movies about whats going to happen in book 6 and 7. I think another indication in the movies of R/HR is the Hippograff scene, where R and HR hold hands then break apart in embarassment. How many times have we seen that in teen shows and movies?

Why wouldn't the "obvious" couple also be the "popular" one?

In my opinion it should be. R/HR are the obvious couple so i'd think more people would be rooting for them rather than H/HR. That's my opinion anyway.

[daz]

Why wouldn't the "obvious" couple also be the "popular" one?

Because out of the 3 of them. Harry is the fav and Hermione is the one fans outside of the net want Harry to be with. I dont know why. Its just kids like Harry and Hermione as a couple.

All im saying in all the questions she gets asked on shipping. Fans never ask if Ron will hook up with somebody. Thats all i was saying.

I didnt say Hermione and Harry would end up together in my last couple of posts.

All im saying is there is a diffrence between on here and outside.

[delemtri]

Because out of the 3 of them. Harry is the fav and Hermione is the one fans outside of the net want Harry to be with. I dont know why. Its just kids like Harry and Hermione as a couple.

All im saying in all the questions she gets asked on shipping. Fans never ask if Ron will hook up with somebody. Thats all i was saying.

I didnt say Hermione and Harry would end up together in my last couple of posts.

All im saying is there is a diffrence between on here and outside.

Outside the fandom I only know R/H shippers. But that's not the point. You haven't established why you can characterize R/H as "obvious" and H/H as "popular." Those two *go together.*

[haha]

All im saying in all the questions she gets asked on shipping. Fans never ask if Ron will hook up with somebody. Thats all i was saying.

I think Ron gets overlooked too much. He really deserves a bit more attention, in my opinion. Just because Harry's the leading lady and Hermione is the leading female role doesn't mean it's guaranteed that they'll pair up, well not IMO.

Outside the fandom I only know R/H shippers. But that's not the point. You haven't established why you can characterize R/H as "obvious" and H/H as "popular." Those two *go together.*

Yeah, i think so too :D Finally SOMEONE who agrees with me. It's funny how all my friends all seem to think of the R/HR connection rather than H/HR.

[daz]

Outside the fandom I only know R/H shippers. But that's not the point. You haven't established why you can characterize R/H as "obvious" and H/H as "popular." Those two *go together.*


Im lost. Im English and Popular means the fans love them and Obvious means its it in your face. A clown could see it.

The 2 have nothing to do with each other. It just means that Harry and Hermione are more popular than Ron. Its what the fans like.

It all so dosent help that Rupurt is ugly and the other 2 are sexy.

[delemtri]

Im lost. Im English and Popular means the fans love them and Obvious means its it in your face. A clown could see it.

The 2 have nothing to do with each other. It just means that Harry and Hermione are more popular than Ron. Its what the fans like.

If it's obvious, it's bound to be more popular. And I disagree that H/H is the more popular one. Everybody I talk to who ships at all who's not a fan to our extent - the "other fans" - ships R/H.

It all so dosent help that Rupurt is ugly and the other 2 are sexy.

Well, in the books Hermione's supposed to be the least attractive of the trio. Everybody making the movies clearly supports R/H, so don't even start with that.

[daz]

Well, in the books Hermione's supposed to be the least attractive of the trio. Everybody making the movies clearly supports R/H, so don't even start with that.

KIds watch them films then think that is how Hermione looks. Very simple. So in kids eyes Hermione is not ugly. Again i was talking about looks and you say something else. And its weird you like film Ron is he is big disspointment. He is OTT. I like book Ron. But film Ron is just annoying. They have made him stupid. And he looks a j*ackass in that new pic from the yuleball.

I dont ship R/HR. I ship L/R.

[haha]

Im lost. Im English and Popular means the fans love them and Obvious means its it in your face. A clown could see it.

The 2 have nothing to do with each other. It just means that Harry and Hermione are more popular than Ron. Its what the fans like.

BUT if it's obvious wouldn't it be popular?

And I disagree that H/H is the more popular one. Everybody I talk to who ships at all who's not a fan to our extent - the "other fans" - ships R/H.

i thought the R/HR is the more popular one too :) at least with the people i chat to anyway.

[delemtri]

KIds watch them films then think that is how Hermione looks. Very simple. So in kids eyes Hermione is not ugly. Again i was talking about looks and you say something else. And its weird you like film Ron is he is big disspointment. He is OTT. I like book Ron. But film Ron is just annoying. They have made him stupid. And he looks a j*ackass in that new pic from the yuleball.

I actually *don't* like the film Ron. I never said I did. But I also don't care about the films, and I don't care how legions of kids who watch the films ship. I don't care if your ship is the most popular. If it sinks, it sinks. Prove to me it won't.

[asrivathsan]

i think ron/hermy and harry/luna.... though in the beginning i was inclined to think it would be neville/luna and harry would end up without a partner... but recently i read somewhere that jo said that neville and luna are not exactly similar.... so i changed my opinion

[snoopy_bombay]

I think Ron gets overlooked too much. He really deserves a bit more attention, in my opinion. Just because Harry's the leading lady and Hermione is the leading female role doesn't mean it's guaranteed that they'll pair up, well not IMO.

I don't agree with that.No one is overlooking ron.He has been with harry almost through every adventure.On the other hand I think there are reasons for h/hr to happen. They are very much on equal footing in terms maturity,understanding,thinking,etc.

Yeah, i think so too :D Finally SOMEONE who agrees with me. It's funny how all my friends all seem to think of the R/HR connection rather than H/HR.
I guess the films in particular propogate the r/hr connection,as also us fans.Reading the books can prove there are h/hr connections as well.

[FlyingPhoenix]

We use quotes because if Harmonians refuse to accept our interpretations of JKR's writing, we can shove the quotes in their way, as there's less room for interpretation. But, yet, you still manage to find amazing alternative ways to interpret the quotes.

Interesting I haven't seen your interpretation of canon since 2 threads Or even more. You obviously haven't learnt that your little quotes won't change the way how I interpret canon, you haven't learnt this in 42 threads its like an evangelium to you, you repeat yourself endless with what kind of result? I and several other still say its H/hr, this bit ironic, don't you think? We could use that time far more interesting as to waste it with posting for 1millions time quotes.

[snoopy_bombay]

I think that r/h fans use the h/g ship to disapprove the h/hr ship while h/hr fans argue their own ship.It's very rarely i've seen h/hr shippers use r/l to disapprove r/h.

[delemtri]

I think that r/h fans use the h/g ship to disapprove the h/hr ship while h/hr fans argue their own ship.It's very rarely i've seen h/hr shippers use r/l to disapprove r/h.

Actually, I'm the opposite. I'm an H/G fan who uses R/H to disprove H/H.

[snoopy_bombay]

I don't mind h/hr or h/g but don't think of luna as someone who harry can consider seriously for a romance

[daz]

Interesting I haven't seen your interpretation of canon since 2 threads Or even more. You obviously haven't learnt that your little quotes won't change the way how I interpret canon, you haven't learnt this in 42 threads its like an evangelium to you, you repeat yourself endless with what kind of result? I and several other still say its H/hr, this bit ironic, don't you think? We could use that time far more interesting as to waste it with posting for 1millions time quotes.

Well said :tu: .

There is no sign Hermione likes Ron. And if Herons where so convinced of there ship why come on here and keep on and on about said quotes.

[The Leprechaun]

Because out of the 3 of them. Harry is the fav and Hermione is the one fans outside of the net want Harry to be with. I dont know why. Its just kids like Harry and Hermione as a couple.

All im saying in all the questions she gets asked on shipping. Fans never ask if Ron will hook up with somebody. Thats all i was saying.

I didnt say Hermione and Harry would end up together in my last couple of posts.

All im saying is there is a diffrence between on here and outside.

Is that so? Do you have evidence that can truly defend your position on this issue? No, you don't. The closest evidence we have are the what questions have been asked in interviews and the internet polls. Of these things, the more recent polls have had Heron or Chocolate being favored much more than Harmony (Ginny beat Hermione for Harry in an old Veritaserum Poll, the amount of yes' about Heron sailing equalled 4 times as many votes than a No *if you add those that say it's possible then it goes up to 5 times as many*, and Hermione is beating all the others in the current Veritaserum poll and even Harry is running a dead heat with Luna *if not beating Luna). There was one more poll pre-OotP for Harry's love interest and Hermione was just barely above Ginny (interesting how that changed after OotP) For the interviews we've had about 6 questions involving Harry/Hermione of them one was responded by her saying no, two were the questionaire was asked if they thought so, two she said we've had enough clues by now, and the last one said that Harry may change his mind in total one negative, two sound close to negative, two are pretty much neutral, and one is hopeful but also gives Chocolate hope. For Ron and Hermione we've had 4 questions (all after GoF) one was given a positive response and the other three said we should know by now.

All in all Heron/Chocolate has won three out of four polls and Heron has many more positive responses then Harmony, though Harmony has been asked about more. Add this to the fact that all the cast and production leaders working on the movies would be Heron shippers if they shipped, and all the obvious Heron moments in the movie, I'd say that it is starting to look like Heron is in the lead from what the evidence is showing us.

Oh, and all the people I know see Heron, though I haven't gone into in depth analysis of what they read they all see Heron (I'd even say that some would probably be surprised to know that people believe in Harmony).

No one here can speak for the majority, because we just don't know those answers.

[daz]

And this is the internet where anybody can vote on a poll a 100 times if they want.

Just delet on the cookies on your computer. I very rearly believe any thing on the internet. Because its so easy to Lie.

So them polls mean NOTHING. Its quite easy to rig things on the net. As i said go though JKRS interviews and there is never a qustion about Ron and Hermione. Its all ways H/HR. And that cant be faked can it.

[The Leprechaun]

Well said :tu: .

There is no sign Hermione likes Ron. And if Herons where so convinced of there ship why come on here and keep on and on about said quotes.

Some are trying to get used to the idea that your ship may not sail (I'm not one of them entirely and I am not implying that my ship will sail, both ships have a good chance).

Others do it to try and convince you of the merit of JKR quotes.

Others, like me, do it because they see something interesting and want to bring it up or they put multiple quotes together to see a pattern.

Quotes have merit, but I agree that the book is more fun to analyze.

[daz]

I am not 100% convinced on my ship and i admit that. But a few Herons seem so sure of themseleves. I was a Heron on here when i first joined. But people like Stic and flying phoenix convinced me there is more to Hermione than i first saw. She does not seem like a person with a crush on Ron in OOTP. You look at the way Ron acts and then Hermione and something is Amiss.

[The Leprechaun]

And this is the internet where anybody can vote on a poll a 100 times if they want.

Just delet on the cookies on your computer. I very rearly believe any thing on the internet. Because its so easy to Lie.

So them polls mean NOTHING. Its quite easy to rig things on the net. As i said go though JKRS interviews and there is never a qustion about Ron and Hermione. Its all ways H/HR. And that cant be faked can it.

Yes and this counts for both ships. Both ships could be cheating and that is what doesn't make you're case any stronger. Why? Because if some Harmonians cheated and Herons cheated, the you are still in the minority. All things that you apply to one ship in poll manipulation applies to all ship possibilities mentioned in the poll.

On the second point, you are wrong.

Was there something going on between Ron and Hermione?
Does Hermione like Ron as more than a friend?
Will Ron and Hermione aver get together?
Does Hermione like Harry or Ron? (Yes it includes Harry, but it isn't just Harry)

So, there are quotes that are based of questions about Ron and Hermione (and yes I acknowledge the questions about Harry and Hermione).

I am not 100% convinced on my ship and i admit that. But a few Herons seem so sure of themseleves. I was a Heron on here when i first joined. But people like Stic and flying phoenix convinced me there is more to Hermione than i first saw. She does not seem like a person with a crush on Ron in OOTP. You look at the way Ron acts and then Hermione and something is Amiss.

Well that is you opinion and it is good to know that you are not 100%, I am not either. Personally, I think that there is plenty of Ron and Hermione moments from either Ron or Hermioene or even both. Plus, there is some rather large holes in Harmony in OotP.

[daz]

Im sorry i thought the interviwer asked them questions about Ron and Hermione. I did not know they where fan questions.

[The Leprechaun]

Im sorry i thought the interviwer asked them questions about Ron and Hermione. I did not know they where fan questions.

All of those questions were fan questions. Harry and Hermione have had two interviewer questions, I think (Couric and one other I believe).

Well good night all, Happy shipping. If you celebrate Christmas, then Merry Christmas. If you don't, then Happy Holidays.

[delemtri]

Daz, you must understand that it's a function of good debate that each side acts more convinced than they actually are. I could compliment Harmony posts as often as I do Heron - and indeed there are some days I want to - but that would totally undermine my own shipping.

That said, I am lately very convinced. I've just read through the R/H essay on Mugglenet and, to be honest, it's truly extraordinary and evinces a subtlety to their interactions in OOTP which I had never really noticed before. And it's exactly the sort of thing JKR would do, JKR who knows what's on every character's mind when she writes every scene but never really tells us.

The other thing that convinces me is Harry. I simply see no evidence for an eventual interest in Hermione on his part, whether or not Hermione is interested in him. And as I keep saying, Ron almost definitely liking Hermione and Harry almost definitely not leaves the ships, in a best-case scenario for Harmony, even. The confusion over Hermione's LI tips the scales in favor of Harmony because it gives the impression that it's her interest that will decide things. I'm really not sure why it would be.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Yes and this counts for both ships. Both ships could be cheating and that is what doesn't make you're case any stronger. Why? Because if some Harmonians cheated and Herons cheated, the you are still in the minority. All things that you apply to one ship in poll manipulation applies to all ships mentioned.

I'm curious why are you that interest whether H/Hr is more popular as R/Hr? It's plain obvious that both ships are big both have a history where other ships did only cring about. I can't even say which ship is older, but I guess its H/Hr after all what I heard.
As for your polls, let use a bit of logic and lets try to think like a little girl/boy who is seriously interest in answereing this questions for the millions time then we got this questions: Which ship is going to happen? (I admint a stupid question but hey I'm not the one who made this polls)

1. R/hr
2 H/Hr and so on.

Let's say you are a H/hr shipper who think R/hr will happen first, for what are you voteing? Is this question aimed at book6 or on both remaining books? Lets assume you understand this question as: Which ship is going to happen next?
Viola, you vote R/Hr.

A very truthful poll, and very useful in a debate for heaven's sake.

Plus, there is some rather large holes in Harmony in OotP.

Yes, and if I'm not mistaken I asked you before what hole is it?
One of the most subtle but interesting Hr---H clues is that one where Hermione is the only one in the whole common room who is annoyed by Big Harry pic. We should look at this passage:

He unrolled it to see his own face grinning sheepishly at him from the front cover.

At first we read how Harry descripe this cover. It's kind of important that JKR let Harry describe it.

Harry was a hero in the Gryffindor common room that night. Daringly, Fred and George had put an Enlargement Charm on the front cover of The Quibbler and hung it on the wall, so that Harry's giant head gazed down upon the proceedings, occasionally saying things like THE MINISTRY ARE MORONS' and 'EAT DUNG, UMBRIDGE' in a booming voice. Hermione did not find this very amusing; she said it interfered with her concentration, and she ended up going to bed early out of irritation.

Which reason should JKR have to mention or write that only Hermione of all Gryffindors wasn't amused by a giant Harry who grins sheepisly? I find this very amusing :p

Another point would be that even it seems Harry isn't listening, he remembers Hermione's ideas pretty well, scary like well.

'I've got a feeling Umbridge has only just started being horrible,' said Hermione darkly.

Later after Harry had his first lesson with Firenze and is by Hagrid:

'Hagrid, what're you up to?' asked Harry seriously. 'Because you've got to be careful, Umbridge has already sacked Trelawney and, if you ask me, she's on a roll. If you're doing anything you shouldn't be, you'll be — '

I might add that Harry didn't even response in this conservation earlier yet he remembers, he did even remember a spell only once done by Hermione dueing a raining, storming quidditch game. This is to me very strange for a boy who don't remember everything.

His priority did not seem to be to teach them what he knew, but rather to impress upon them that nothing, not even centaurs' knowledge, was foolproof.

This one you can mark with big red marks because that's to me the only reason why this lesson exist because it's prepareing not only Harry but the readers too that Dumbledore and his understanding of the Prophecy is wrong.

[daz]

well i read a H/HR Essay on mugglenet and it convinced me more.

[delemtri]

well i read a H/HR Essay on mugglenet and it convinced me more.

I read the big H/H essay and it didn't have the same effect. I guess that's why you're on Harmony and I'm on Heron. :)

[daz]

Very true Delemtri
Im off so...............

Happy Christmas everybody.
Hope you all have a good day.

[Corbin Dallas]

His priority did not seem to be to teach them what he knew, but rather to impress upon them that nothing, not even centaurs' knowledge, was foolproof.

This one you can mark with big red marks because that's to me the only reason why this lesson exist because it's prepareing not only Harry but the readers too that Dumbledore and his understanding of the Prophecy is wrong.
Totally off shipping here but I gotta tell you FP I agree, I agree whole-heartedly, get me ;) '-
CD

[delemtri]

Ooh, wow - I keep going off-topic lately, but I'd like to echo that - CD on FP that is. ;) Great connection there.

[faiza]

OK Harry and Hermione cannot possibly have 2 dates
without having a [singuar] date
get me ?
also as reason for H/Hr NOT even having one date- they are platonic friends. Meaning nonsexual, not interested in one another, spiritual, not compatible etc.

Yeah, I get what you're saying but I don't think you get my point. So never mind.

so Hermione may not have known that harry didn't think she was ugly, otherwise she wouldn't have told him that he should have told cho that he thought she was ugly.

Ok, maybe she didn't tell him to lie exactly, but twist the truth a little.

you know there is load of evidence at the sugar quill suporting hermione n ro h/hr shippers should check it out

You know, ages ago sugarquill was actually my favorite site :p

And in GOF after the Yule Ball when Hermoine told Ron to ask before others

She's telling him that if he'd wanted to go with her, he shouldn't have asked her as a last resort. She wouldv'e said the same had it been Harry or anyone else. Would you like it if your best friends asked you as a last resort and didn't believe you when you told him you already have a date?

Brilliant! after 5 book u still haven't figured out who Harry is.He's shy and could even date her first love properly and now he starts dating with the girl who's bin in front of her for those years and he never felt anything for her ,and now,among all the chaos, he starts dates her not once but twice!At this rate he could take over from Roger Davies.

You completely missed my point. And the fact that he's known her for years should make it easier to ask her on a date then Cho, someone he doesn't really know.

You expect Hermoine to remember this?In fact it prooves the point of non Harmonians further- Harry asked her about her hair and she doesn't even remember it.

My point was that she does remember, and so the whole ugly thing was her fishing for a compliment.

i would have thought jk would have announced ron n hermione getting together in book 5

Yes, I remember before OotP came out a lot (if not all) of R/Hr shippers were certain they would become a couple in the fifth book. They weren't right the, why will they be right now?

as she said, ron hasn't realized yet what's goin on.
but when he does...

He'll get rejected, big time...

were as if harry n her had kids they just be bossy moody black haired babies

No they'd be smart, messy/bushy haired, bespectaceld (wich would make them look even smarter), quidditch stars with gorgeous green eyes with chocolate brown flecks in them.

with scary scars and a nack for trouble

I didn't know scars were genetic :huh: And the nack for trouble will make them all the more lovable and charming. Besides they will be so smart, they will always be able to talk themselves out of trouble.

"What about Ron though? Don't you want to go with him?" and Hermione turns slightly pink

That was because she was trying to set up a meeting between Harry and Ron.

have Harry and Ron get together?

Ew, I'd rather have Ron and Hermione together!! Or maybe not... :p

for the record the ultimate couple ...............Crookshanks n Mrs.Noris

lol! I have always shipped them

Me too! At least we agree on something.

Vicky gets Ron incensed which makes him *more* likely to start something

Yeah, a big fight. And we all know Hermione enjoys those o so much.

Originally Posted by www.jkrowling.com/textonly/faq_view.cfm?id=39
Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?
I can't believe that some of you haven't worked this one out yet, but I'm not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.

You know what I think? I think the answer to this question is that Hermione loves both boys. That much is obvious. But whom she loves in a romantic way is IMO Harry. And I think that's as obvious as Ron having a thing for Hermione.

Wow, the thread moves fast! I'm only on page 26 of 29 and have to go again. I hate to think of how many pages I'm going to have to read when I'm back again...

[Deevo]

Outside the fandom I only know R/H shippers. But that's not the point. You haven't established why you can characterize R/H as "obvious" and H/H as "popular." Those two *go together.*

Im lost. Im English and Popular means the fans love them and Obvious means its it in your face. A clown could see it.
That's a bit rough, there are a lot of fans who like all three both in the books and the movies. Just because something is obvious doesn't mean it isn't right either.

The 2 have nothing to do with each other. It just means that Harry and Hermione are more popular than Ron. Its what the fans like.

It all so dosent help that Rupurt is ugly and the other 2 are sexy.
You left out the IMO there. Reading some female posters work it's quite clear that many fans don't find Rupert ugly.

I actually *don't* like the film Ron. I never said I did.
Moving slightly OT for a moment. Just curious, is it Ron or Rupert you don't like in the movies? Because if it's Ron and the way he's been written (and directed Alfonso) I'm inclined to agree with you. I've already said in another movie thread how I think that Rupert hasn't had much to work with so far.

I think that r/h fans use the h/g ship to disapprove the h/hr ship while h/hr fans argue their own ship.It's very rarely i've seen h/hr shippers use r/l to disapprove r/h.
I think that's down to a lack of evidence. As far as I can tell there have been only one or two passages where Luna has shown any interest in Ron and there is no indication that Ron feels anything in return IMO.

And this is the internet where anybody can vote on a poll a 100 times if they want.

Just delet on the cookies on your computer. I very rearly believe any thing on the internet. Because its so easy to Lie.

So them polls mean NOTHING. Its quite easy to rig things on the net. As i said go though JKRS interviews and there is never a qustion about Ron and Hermione. Its all ways H/HR. And that cant be faked can it.
And that works both ways too if anyone remembers the debacle over the "Who would you like to direct HBP" poll on Mugglenet that was hijacked by LOTR fans. If one group were more ... passionate ... about their ship than another I can see your argument having possibilities. As things are now though both of the major shipping groups seem to have a similar proportion of passionate believers within their ranks so they'd generally cancel each other out in any sort of poll.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Moving slightly OT for a moment. Just curious, is it Ron or Rupert you don't like in the movies? Because if it's Ron and the way he's been written (and directed Alfonso) I'm inclined to agree with you. I've already said in another movie thread how I think that Rupert hasn't had much to work with so far

Moveing too Off Topic I'm slightly confused here, isn't common R/Hr say that the movies are so very much R/Hr promoting yet you lot say Ron!Movie and Hermione!Movie are not canon like ehhh, right. How then can R/Hr in the movies says CoS and PoA be like canon if Ron nor Hermione act like in canon, maybe its just me but it can't be both. Also why are you useing (that's even more confuseing) the say of people like Chris Columbus or Alfonso who actually let Ron act like thar, did let Hermione act like that?
This movies show already that Ron is a supporting character no more a main-character. Movies like GoF and OotP will follow this pathern so I suggest get used to uhm Ron.

[delemtri]

Moveing too Off Topic I'm slightly confused here, isn't common R/Hr say that the movies are so very much R/Hr promoting yet you lot say Ron!Movie and Hermione!Movie are not canon like ehhh, right. How then can R/Hr in the movies says CoS and PoA be like canon if Ron nor Hermione act like in canon, maybe its just me but it can't be both. Also why are you useing (that's even more confuseing) the say of people like Chris Columbus or Alfonso who actually let Ron act like thar, did let Hermione act like that?
This movies show already that Ron is a supporting character no more a main-character. Movies like GoF and OotP will follow this pathern so I suggest get used to uhm Ron.

Some people on both sides suggest the movies are canon. I have never done this. When they are brought up, I simply state that everybody involved with their production obviously ships R/H and am finished with it.

Ron is as much a supporting character as Hermione. Sidekicks and all that.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Ron is as much a supporting character as Hermione. Sidekicks and all that.

Watching PoA, I disagree with you.

When they are brought up, I simply state that everybody involved with their production obviously ships R/H and am finished with it.

They obviously can't ship anything else. Would be dump to play R/Hr in PoA out and then to say its not happening. Frankly WB got a problem with a secretive JKR who just tells them to certain scene's: Guys this you can't do, this you can do.
But not giveing enough of details. How do you promote a Teenager Movie? With saying: Uh, duh neither Ron nor Hermione know if they like each other this way, just come back for Movie HBP in 4 years.
:lol: Of course they promote R/Hr and even it don't happens in the end, still one can argue this scene's into R--->Hr---->H
I seriously don't want to be the fool who makes movies about a not finished story this is bound to contract itself. Just wait and see. As much as I know this wasn't done yet. At least I never heard about a story which isn't even finished to be seen as Movie.

[delemtri]

Watching PoA, I disagree with you.

They obviously can't ship anything else. Would be dump to play R/Hr in PoA out and then to say its not happening. Frankly WB got a problem with a secretive JKR who just tells them to certain scene's: Guys this you can't do, this you can do.
But not giveing enough of details. How do you promote a Teenager Movie? With saying: Uh, duh neither Ron nor Hermione know if they like each other this way, just come back for Movie HBP in 4 years.
:lol: Of course they promote R/Hr and even it don't happens in the end, still one can argue this scene's into R--->Hr---->H
I seriously don't want to be the fool who makes movies about a not finished story this is bound to contract itself. Just wait and see. As much as I know this wasn't done yet. At least I never heard about a story which isn't even finished to be seen as Movie.

So uh... I'm confused. The movie ships R/H, which is obviously invalid as canon as you ship H/H; and it casts Ron as a minor character, which is obviously valid as canon as you agree with this. Or am I mistaken?

[AvadaKedavra]

Flying Phoenix

Decided to show your head, eh?

Interesting I haven't seen your interpretation of canon since 2 threads Or even more. You obviously haven't learnt that your little quotes won't change the way how I interpret canon, you haven't learnt this in 42 threads its like an evangelium to you, you repeat yourself endless with what kind of result? I and several other still say its H/hr, this bit ironic, don't you think? We could use that time far more interesting as to waste it with posting for 1millions time quotes.

My dear friend, but quotes are canon. You ignore them, there's a large amount of canon that you're choosing to ignore. You didn't even rebutt my exclusive post for you, the one that I took time to write for you, the quote that I made extra effort, went out of my way to write a fresh perspective for you, since you said that I was just putting the same old stuff on with new skins.
So don't come on here and tell me what to post and what not to post- how arrogant. In my post I showed you with my quotes how JKR is NOT tricking us in the books, I'm showed you the relationship between the quotes and the books. In fact, why are you even wasting your breath telling me so, when you know I don't care what you think.

If I can jump ships following my head and my heart, and not my fear of what people might 'think' of me, then having you on this board reprimanding me like Mrs Weasley (:rotfl:) is hardly going to scare me.

Some advice for you: either put up or shut up.

Merry Christmas all, (yes-even you, FP :evil:)

P.S: I have put up some text-based interpretation on this thread: "You're worse than ron"- but you're excused from replying since we've debated this to death on previous threads.

[faiza]

The first meeting. Hermione is quick to show off to both boys and she asks who RON is first

She said "Who are you?". She could've been asking both boys. And it was Ron who was trying to do a spell, so it would only logical that she'd be looking and talking to him when she said all that.

Even though she knows who harry is she didn’t know it was harry (are you really? I've read about you etc)

She didn't see the scar. How was she supposed to know?

Ron is quick to stick up for Hermione and tries to hex Malfoy despite the fact that he would get in trouble.

All the Weasleys were trying to attack Malfoy. They grew up learning that's a very offensive thing to say. It wasn't only Ron.

Again, Ron is the only one to try and defend Hermione. He's so angry that he threatens to beat up Malfoy without his wand. Dean and Harry have to hold him back. Now if Harry liked Hermione, wouldn't you think he would be angry enough to want to hurt Malfoy as well?and by now Harry knows what a mudblood is.

Harry and Dean, 2 boys who've been raised as Muggles, hold Ron back. 2 boys who did not grow up with parents telling them the M-word is very bad etc. For Ron it's normal to react this way, especially since Hermione's his friend. Harry still doesn't fully understand the offensiveness of the word because it hasn't been stamped into his head since the age of 1.

Ron is willing to overcome his fear of spiders only when he sees Hermione's empty chair.

Yeah, but the question is not what Ron's feelings are but what are Hermione's.

The first one Ron thinks about is Hermione. He's relieved she's all right.

Well duh...
How about when they got caught by McG and the first thing Harry thought about was Hermione?

Ron coming to Hermione's aid IMMEDIATELY. Not even Harry does this; he manages to restrain himself.

That's just the way the boys are. Harry isn't (wasn't) as hotheaded as Ron. Harry had to learn how to restrain himself at de Dursleys. He's had enough practice. With Ron, it's just the other way around.

Why would Ron look so terrified that Hermione hugged him?

Because he's a boy and she's a girl. Remember the first time Hermione hugged Harry? he was also very embarresed and relieved when she let go of him.
Come on, why would Hermione look simply furious that Fleur kissed Ron? It didn't mention that she was angry when she kissed Harry. Jealousy duh!!

Fleur also kissed Harry. Harry couldn't see Hermione at the time, because he was being kissed by Fleur.

This seems to indicate Hermione has fancied Ron for awhile. She points out that its taken Ron four years to notice she's a girl. She's also upset that Ron thinks she would make up a lie to get out of going to the Yule Ball with Neville.

I disagree. It has taken Ron 3 years to notice she's a girl, wich dismisses all of your previous evidence. Of course she's upset Ron doesn't believe she has a date. She's already insecure and then her friend laughs at her when she says she has a date!

It always seems to be Ron making her laugh.

Not always, and Ron is the funny one of the group.

it's clear she would have liked to go with him.

No, it's clear she would have gone with him had he not asked her as a last resort.

She obviously is not a fan of Fleur

That much is obvious. But she already disliked her before she even knew her name and before Ron had taken an interest in her.

The one thing we don't know is WHY Hermione was so cool towards them

She was cool towards them because they ditched doing homework for Quidditch practice.

'I mean, we can do it tonight,' said Ron, as he and Harry walked down the sloping lawns towards the Quidditch pitch, their broomsticks over their shoulders, and with Hermione's dire warnings that they would fail all their OWLs still ringing in their ears. 'And we've got tomorrow. She gets too worked up about work, that's her trouble . . .' There was a pause and he added, in a slightly more anxious tone, 'D'you think she meant it when she said we weren't copying from her?'

Now why would Ron and Hermione begin making irritable huffy noises

Didn't they just have a fight or something? And they mustn't have been sitting very close to eachother if Harry could sit between them.

she can finish his sentences and seems to be used to Ron's behavior towards her by now.

I really don't think that was what Ron was about to say. Being used to him being rude to her isn't really a good thing. She's also used to Malfoy calling her a Mudblood so...

Ah, the return of Vicky. Ron's jealousy that she may still be writing to Krum is apparent here. He also hints that Viktor wanted to be more than friends and is not too happy about it.

Yes and Hermione is bored with this behavior. So she doesn't bring up Victor to make Ron jealous (you or someone else mentioned this earlier).

Personally- I do not think Hermione liked the perfume. But she atleast tried to compliment it

"That perfume's really unusual" isn't exactly a compliment. She could've just said thank you.

when she says do you really think... she means "no" , get me '-

No, when she says "do you really think they're suited", she diverts the question by asking a question.

Outside the fandom I only know R/H shippers. But that's not the point. You haven't established why you can characterize R/H as "obvious" and H/H as "popular." Those two *go together.*

After my first read of the books, I thought Ron/Hermione was obvious, but I liked the idea of Harry/Hermione better. So those 2 don't always go together.

Oh and Merry Christmas everybody!! Even though I don't celebrate it myself...

[Hannibal "Drax" Lecter]

What puzzles and amuses me is that many fans are fascinated by Ron's love life when he's not even the main character. Really, you'd think people would cheer on Harry Potter (the leading male character) to eventually get together with the leading female character. The debates are interesting, but it's funny the way it's worked out among fans so far.

It's just to me, the result of R/Hr gives me a funny mental image of Robin hooking up with Catwoman.

[faiza]

you'd think people would cheer on Harry Potter (the leading male character) to eventually get together with the leading female character.

Some people use this as an excuse for them not to get together! Harry is the leading male character, he already has everything going for him. Let poor Ron get the girl.

[snoopy_bombay]

The movies clearly show a r/hr pairing but I can't understand how jkr will show it in the books.I mean how will harry come to know about it and how he will take it is a mystery to me.The reaction he had when they were together in OOTP and he wasn't with them really upset me.Just wonder what it will be like when they really get together.

[faiza]

Just wonder what it will be like when they really get together.

When? Don't you mean if? :p

[Deevo]

What puzzles and amuses me is that many fans are fascinated by Ron's love life when he's not even the main character. Really, you'd think people would cheer on Harry Potter (the leading male character) to eventually get together with the leading female character.
And if this were a romance story you'd be quite right. However it isn't, it's a good old good vs evil story and any romance is going to be a secondary issue. Not to say that it's not a significant one but a secondary one nonetheless.

It's just to me, the result of R/Hr gives me a funny mental image of Robin hooking up with Catwoman.
Now that is funny. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[snoopy_bombay]

When? Don't you mean if? :p
yeah,very sorry about that

[Hannibal "Drax" Lecter]

If R/Hr were to happen, I couldn't see much page space devoted to it. The story is told from Harry's point of view, which is why it puzzles me so much that the R/Hr pairing is so popular. Harry would have more important things to worry about than to react to R/Hr getting together or even go out of his way to get involved with their affairs. Even if R/Hr were to happen, I just can't help but to expect a lot of people who were supporting that ship to be disappointed because it wasn't elaborated enough in the writing because Harry wouldn't be around to see it being played out because their loving time together would be private from Harry.

To me, it lacks dramatic integrity because these two other significant characters in Harry's life would have suddenly been cut off from the main character. It just seems more interesting if there's some kind of realization of feelings between Harry and Hermione because it actually involves the female lead with the main character. As for Ron, well he's really just the male lead's sidekick. Again, I don't find Ron's character interesting enough to just "give him the girl".

Do I sound shallow?


And if this were a romance story you'd be quite right. However it isn't, it's a good old good vs evil story and any romance is going to be a secondary issue. Not to say that it's not a significant one but a secondary one nonetheless.

Oh, sure. But really, I'm certain we all find this aspect of the books to be the most amusing. Otherwise, why is it being discussed so much? :p

[snoopy_bombay]

And if this were a romance story you'd be quite right. However it isn't, it's a good old good vs evil story and any romance is going to be a secondary issue. Not to say that it's not a significant one but a secondary one nonetheless.


Now that is funny. :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

maybe romance is not the main part of the books but still it is an integral part.But what if romance makes his life worth living?I mean just like the DA.Jkr said that if she were harry she would hide somewhere.Wouldn't romance really cheer him up?I guess we should just keep it to Harry's romance

[eRiN_GRyFFiN]

The movies clearly show a r/hr pairing but I can't understand how jkr will show it in the books.I mean how will harry come to know about it and how he will take it is a mystery to me.The reaction he had when they were together in OOTP and he wasn't with them really upset me.Just wonder what it will be like when they really get together.

first of all--MERRY CHRISTMAS MY DEAR CoS MATES!!! :D Santa's been in my house, but we are expecting the Three Wise Men to come with all the presents!! And Im confident, since :angel: ---->me lol

Well, back on topic. I've been wondering the same, Snoopy; but not only on H/Hr. I mean, I think I will like any pairing since it's well written and make sense. And I'm sure Jo has no prob at all with that.

At the moment, I'm eager to see Ron talking to Hermione, and Hermione open mouth and as pink as a pidglet, lol. And I also would love to see harry realising that his best girl-friend is becoming something more, and that he just doesn't like the sight of she and Ron having fun together. That would be very romantic!

The same with Luna and Ginny. I mean, Ginny stuff seems to me a bit odd, but I think it's just because of lack of development. To me, the idea of Harry-->Ginny is like taking a newborn baby and expect him to run. But I'm sure that, if that's the path, Jo will guide us through it ina very logical way. (I just can imagine Voldemort saying to Harry and Ginny: "this night reminds me another one..almost the same persons..how many times I have to kill you both???" :P

That's why I think that Firenze statement is one of the best of the five books. Nothing is foolproof. Nothing.

well, see you later, food's calling! :P

erin

[snoopy_bombay]

Forgot that MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR! :elaugh:

Isn't anyone interested in saying something?

[CornedBee]

The question could very well be referring to having a date to the Yule Ball
Interesting. I didn't know about that previous interview. But that doesn't change the fact that it is highly unlikely that the questioner would mean to ask about a specific occasion, but fail to say so. More importantly, it doesn't change the fact that the questioner's intent is rather irrelevant; what counts is what Rowling thinks his intent was.

Being unable to locate the exact quote by Rowling about not being book-specific unless she says so, I won't post it. Does anybody have a link?

Heck, maybe Harry and hermione never have a date in the series. They've known each other for the past five years, wouldn't a date be redundant?
No, it wouldn't, as we argued with some other Harmonian above. And it disregards the "reason" issue. You're saying that in a possible scenario, the reason why Harry and Hermione don't date is that they become a couple without needing to. However, Rowling's choice of words and placement of sentences clearly marks "they're very platonic friends" as the reason for their failure to date. They won't date because they're very platonic friends. Perhaps also for other reasons, but this is the main one, and it is logically incompatible with, "they don't need to."

As for platonic: We've all read thirty different interpretations of this word. Here's the back door: Platonic has about ten different definitions; one of them being the stage between first meeting and first kiss. They're relationship can be described as platonic, as, as of yet, they are not romantically involved.
That would, however, be conning, not misleading, on Rowling's part. For something to be misleading, which Rowling loves, the clues that it is not as suspected must be there and possible to work out for the intended audience. In all the books, the clues are there. CoS is a very nice example of this, especially in bringing Ginny and the dead roosters together. These clues can easily be worked out.
However, the intended audience at the interview were mostly children, and to assume that they are aware of the multiple definitions of platonic is just too much. I myself wasn't aware of them until I was about 16. It would thus hardly be possible to work out the "clue" for the audience. Thus, conning.

Oh, and by the way, it's presumptuous to assume that just because H/Hr is described as platonic it means that R/HR is going to happen.
Indeed, and I never said so. My stance on shipping is that I'm 99.5% sure H/Hr will not happen. I'm 98% sure that Hermione will be shipped with someone, though, and I'm 97.5% sure that this someone will be Ron.

Meaning: Harry is wrong to fancy Cho, Hermione is wrong to fancy Krum, and Ron is wrong to fancy Hermione.
Not necessarily. See, that's the difference between the two quotes. In mine, the possible ambiguity lies on the side of the question and is no place for Rowling to be tricky. In yours, the ambiguity is on the side of the answer, and thus an excellent place to be misleading. One meaning:
Harry is in love with Cho, Ron is in love with anybody who's beautiful enough, Hermione is in love with no one.
I'm not yet decided if Hermione was already in love with Ron at the Yule Ball.
Also, everyone is a dangerous word. Does that mean it's wrong for Arthur to be in love with Molly? For Cedric to be in love with Cho (if he is)? (OK, he dies, but that's a "wrong choice" on Cho's part, not Cedric's.) Where do you draw the line about who everyone means? This answer is probably the most ambigous Rowling has ever given in an interview, which is why I don't like to draw it up.

When JKR gets asked this questions the fans all ways ask if H/HR are getting together. Not R/HR. Because Harry and Hermione are the more popular couple in life. Just not on the net.
Do you have a full listing of shipping-related questions in interviews to prove this? My memory tells me that you're wrong. I can think of two H/Hr questions (Press Club and Couric), two R/Hr questions (Does Hermione love Ron? Is there something going on?) and one mentioning both (Who does Hermione love?).

All i was saying is H.HR is the peoples choice. R/HR is the internet choice.
I beg to differ. Everyone I know personally (that's no hard core fans like me, but about 5 or more casual readers) believes that R/Hr will happen. I found that two types of people are likely to ship H/Hr, and I'm generalizing here. One is the hard-core fan that just believes they'll get together, like you. Within the hard-core fans, they're in the minority. The other group is those that didn't read all of the books, only saw the films or something similar. In other words, people who only have a rather fleeting acquaintance with Harry Potter.
Your assertion is that "Rowling doesn't do obvious." (Which I disagree with, of course, but that's not the point.) This is a viewpoint you have gleaned from analyzing the books, not something for the casual reader. (For the casual reader, the obvious large story elements, such as that Harry will eventually defeat Voldemort, are proof that obvious does happen.) Thus, for the casual reader, obvious equals popular.

I and several other still say its H/hr, this bit ironic, don't you think? We could use that time far more interesting as to waste it with posting for 1millions time quotes.
Participation in this thread is voluntary. And those that don't get swayed by the clear quotes we post are unlikely to be swayed by the far less clear interpretations of canon we usually shoot at each other, don't you think?

I'm curious why are you that interest whether H/Hr is more popular as R/Hr?
Because daz, one of yours, brought it up.

Hermione did not find this very amusing; she said it interfered with her concentration, and she ended up going to bed early out of irritation.

Which reason should JKR have to mention or write that only Hermione of all Gryffindors wasn't amused by a giant Harry who grins sheepisly?
For example, she could just write Hermione in character. The things the poster says are mindless and annoying and interfere with concentration. Concentration? Obviously, she was trying to work during the party for Harry.
This shows two things: first, Hermione was entirely right to say that it was annoying, because to a working person, it surely was. Second, and in light of recent debates highly interesting, it shows that Hermione sleeping during Ron's party is not a unique event. She works during Harry's party, and doesn't even stay to be polite. This reinforces my point that Hermione doesn't try to be near the boys when they get attention elsewhere.

Another point would be that even it seems Harry isn't listening, he remembers Hermione's ideas pretty well, scary like well.
So you're saying Harry is incapable of coming up with this on his own? It doesn't take a rocket scientist, you know...

he did even remember a spell only once done by Hermione dueing a raining, storming quidditch game. This is to me very strange for a boy who don't remember everything.
Who remembers everything (aside from Hermione)? Do you remember everything? No, we all have selective memories. The Impervus spell (yeah, I remember that one ;)) is far more likely to have stuck with Harry because it proved to be so useful. Like, Hermione did it, he stepped on the broom, took off and thought, "Wow, amazing. Impervus, I gotta remember that one." So he did. And if Dumbledore had done the spell, he still would have remembered.

She's telling him that if he'd wanted to go with her, he shouldn't have asked her as a last resort.
That's not what she was saying. It may have been what she meant (though I find it unlikely), but it is an interpretation. Unless what I think, which is just taking her words at face value.

And the fact that he's known her for years should make it easier to ask her on a date then Cho, someone he doesn't really know.
Not at all. Believe me, I'm talking from personal experience.

My point was that she does remember, and so the whole ugly thing was her fishing for a compliment.
Her reaction to Harry's answer doesn't fit with fishing for compliments. She's laughing! Laughing at Harry's cluelessness.

That was because she was trying to set up a meeting between Harry and Ron.
That would make her turn pink, why?

Yeah, a big fight.
Why should it be a big fight? Why shouldn't it just goad him into action?

I think the answer to this question is that Hermione loves both boys. That much is obvious.
That makes absolutely no sense. It is absurd to assume that the questioner wants to know about platonic love.

What puzzles and amuses me is that many fans are fascinated by Ron's love life when he's not even the main character. Really, you'd think people would cheer on Harry Potter (the leading male character) to eventually get together with the leading female character.
That may be because nobody forces us to like the main character more than others. It may be because we find Ron's possible romantic scenarios more interesting than Harry's. It may be because the Harry Potter books contain no leading female character - it has a male lead and a female and a male sidekick. It may be because we care for Harry and want him to end with someone who fits him - which, in our opinion, is not Hermione.

If R/Hr were to happen, I couldn't see much page space devoted to it.
Indeed not. See, that doesn't matter, though. The casual reader who supports R/Hr does it more in a "I think it will happen" fashion than a "I want it to happen" fashion. To him, it doesn't matter how much page time the couple gets. The devoted reader who supports R/Hr has fan fiction for his/fer fluff quota. We don't ask for the books to become romance novels - we can write those ourselves. We just want our ship to be canon. We want Harry to walk in on Ron and Hermione kissing once or twice. We want resolution of the tension that we see all through GoF and OotP.

[delemtri]

I'm glad you're on my side, CornedBee.

[Hannibal "Drax" Lecter]

We want resolution of the tension that we see all through GoF and OotP.

Yet again, the resolution of that tension could be that Hermione finally tells it bluntly to Ron that she doesn't actually like him in "that way" and that the only reason she bickered with him was to push him away because she didn't want to give him the wrong impression.

It sort of reminds me of that episode of The Simpsons, when Ralph Wiggum makes it clear to Lisa that he likes her after she gives him a Valentine's card because nobody else would (out of sheer politeness, but gave the wrong impression), but she gets so tired of his advances that she screams out to him that she never liked him. I'm not sure if that's be best example, but it's something.

[snoopy_bombay]

CornedBee are you saying you just want harry walking in on ron and hermione kissing?nothing more?how about two to three pages discussing the kiss?

[delemtri]

Yet again, the resolution of that tension could be that Hermione finally tells it bluntly to Ron that she doesn't actually like him in "that way" and that the only reason she bickered with him was to push him away because she didn't want to give him the wrong impression.

Then you agree that R/H has to be addressed *in some fashion* before either member can date somebody else.

CornedBee are you saying you just want harry walking in on ron and hermione kissing?nothing more?how about two to three pages discussing the kiss?

Unnecessary. Part of the beauty of R/H is that a lot of the relationship happens offscreen. (To me.)

[faiza]

She's laughing! Laughing at Harry's cluelessness.

Maybe she's laughing out of relief. Relief that
1. Harry doens't think she's ugly and
2. He hasn't figured out why she said that (he looked bemused)


That would make her turn pink, why?

She knew Harry didn't want to meet Ron and she got caught.

Why should it be a big fight? Why shouldn't it just goad him into action?

Because whenever the subject of Victor comes up, it turns into a fight or Hermione ignoring Ron's jabs at "Vicky".

That makes absolutely no sense. It is absurd to assume that the questioner wants to know about platonic love.

It's unlikely, but possible. We can't know how Rowling interpreted the question.

Then you agree that R/H has to be addressed *in some fashion* before either member can date somebody else.

Or Ron could just get over his crush and move onto someone else, Luna for example. It's not like he's madly in love with Hermione. He was quick to completely forget about her whenever Fleur was around in GoF.

[Hannibal "Drax" Lecter]

Then you agree that R/H has to be addressed *in some fashion* before either member can date somebody else.

All that bickering wasn't for nothing. I'm a H/Hr shipper, but I'm certain Ron is probably infatuated with Hermione, but he just hasn't gathered up the courage to open his feelings up to her. However, there's a ton of text posted by other Harmonians that shows Hermione isn't interested in Ron's advances (both parties, of course, have to consent). I guess you could say that in a way, I see R/Hr as an obstacle to get to H/Hr, which is why find the latter ship more interesting and have been puzzled by people's fascination with the R/Hr idea and how that is a "fact" and a "given".

Though, I'm aware that many Herons are probably puzzled by my position, so it works both ways.

edited

[delemtri]

All that bickering wasn't for nothing. I'm a H/Hr shipper, but I'm certain Ron is probably infatuated with Hermione, but he just hasn't gathered up the courage to open his feelings up to her. However, there's a ton of text posted by other Harmonians that shows Hermione isn't interested in Ron's advances (both parties, of course, have to consent). I guess you could say that in a way, I see R/Hr as an obstacle to get to H/Hr, which is why find the latter ship more interesting and have been puzzled by people's fascination with the R/Hr idea.

There's evidence for both sides for Hermione. She's all we really argue about. What about Harry, though? Where's your canon for his interest in Hermione? As you said, both parties have to consent.

[snoopy_bombay]

Maybe Ron has to get over his first crush like harry did.Ron liking hermione can be his first crush.Fleur din't look like a proper crush to me.Ron and hermione will get together, probably yes,but it won't be a lasting relationship.They'll have that quick kiss but finally it won't last.(JUST MAYBE)

[delemtri]

Maybe Ron has to get over his first crush like harry did.Ron liking hermione can be his first crush.Fleur din't look like a proper crush to me.Ron and hermione will get together, probably yes,but it won't be a lasting relationship.They'll have that quick kiss but finally it won't last.(JUST MAYBE)

Pure speculation - the duration of a relationship is pretty much impossible to figure using only canon.

[FlyingPhoenix]

So uh... I'm confused. The movie ships R/H, which is obviously invalid as canon as you ship H/H; and it casts Ron as a minor character, which is obviously valid as canon as you agree with this. Or am I mistaken?

The movies aren't R/Hr if one watch them without to listen to the promotion and say of movie-makers then they are not R/Hr. They are at best R--->Hr--->H just like canon.
However this is hardly something you can promote in a Teenager Movie

Decided to show your head, eh?

Only my head?

My dear friend, but quotes are canon

Dear, they are not canon.

A book is said to be of canonical authority when
it has a right to take a place with the other books which contain a revelation
of the Divine will. Such a right does not arise from any ecclesiastical
authority, but from the evidence of the inspired authorship of the book

Somehow canon is linked to a book, don't you think ?

You ignore them, there's a large amount of canon that you're choosing to ignore. You didn't even rebutt my exclusive post for you, the one that I took time to write for you, the quote that I made extra effort, went out of my way to write a fresh perspective for you, since you said that I was just putting the same old stuff on with new skins.

I'm not ignoreing canon, you are the one who claims things to be canon which are clearly not canon. As for your post only for me, I'm bit wondering why you put all this effort on it if you already know what I think about quotes.

So don't come on here and tell me what to post and what not to post- how arrogant.

It's arrogant to claim that I ever did this, I questioned if you ever learnt that your use of Quotes won't change my interpreration of canon.

In my post I showed you with my quotes how JKR is NOT tricking us in the books, I'm showed you the relationship between the quotes and the books. In fact, why are you even wasting your breath telling me so, when you know I don't care what you think.

It's you R/Hr shipper who think JKR have to trick us in her books if H/Hr happens not me, so its probably even more amuseing that you need to show how she is not tricking you.

Yeah and Merry Christmas to you too.

[faiza]

What about Harry, though? Where's your canon for his interest in Hermione? As you said, both parties have to consent.

Saw that one coming...

[delemtri]

Saw that one coming...

I'm getting a bit tired of the question myself, but I'd feel wrong not asking it. Sorry. I'll try to be a bit more unpredictable.

The movies aren't R/Hr if one watch them without to listen to the promotion and say of movie-makers then they are not R/Hr. They are at best R--->Hr--->H just like canon.
However this is hardly something you can promote in a Teenager Movie

So they're not canon, but they do prove a point about Ron's character? You're using a remarkably transparent double standard.

A book is said to be of canonical authority when
it has a right to take a place with the other books which contain a revelation
of the Divine will. Such a right does not arise from any ecclesiastical
authority, but from the evidence of the inspired authorship of the book

Somehow canon is linked to a book, don't you think ?

No. It's linked to Divine Will. As JKR is the God of the Potterverse, I think her own words count as a revelation of her will.

[snoopy_bombay]

Pure speculation - the duration of a relationship is pretty much impossible to figure using only canon.
true,it was pure speculation but what else can we do?only speculate.The reason I speculated in such a way was because of the r/hr bickering.I don't know but it's only a mater of time before one of this tiffs turns bad,real bad.That's why.Remember
little drops of water,little grains of sand make the mighty ocean and the pleasent land.
(sorry about the last line but couldn't resist the temptation)

[delemtri]

true,it was pure speculation but what else can we do?only speculate.The reason I speculated in such a way was because of the r/hr bickering.I don't know but it's only a mater of time before one of this tiffs turns bad,real bad.That's why.Remember
little drops of water,little grains of sand make the mighty ocean and the pleasent land.
(sorry about the last line but couldn't resist the temptation)

Mugglenet has an *amazing* R/H essay about the evolution of their bickering in OOTP. It's no longer at all vitriolic, for the most part.

[snoopy_bombay]

Mugglenet has an *amazing* R/H essay about the evolution of their bickering in OOTP. It's no longer at all vitriolic, for the most part.

do you have the link?

[delemtri]

do you have the link?

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-khayes01.shtml

It is one of the most important R/H essays, period.

[FlyingPhoenix]

No. It's linked to Divine Will. As JKR is the God of the Potterverse, I think her own words count as a revelation of her will.

It's linked to the Bible, not to God. God is in our terms not existing only in this book.

So they're not canon, but they do prove a point about Ron's character? You're using a remarkably transparent double standard.

The movie can be hardly canon. I didn't say they were at any point canon rather that they are like canon, thats bit different.

[snoopy_bombay]

http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/madampuddifoot/edit-khayes01.shtml

It is one of the most important R/H essays, period.

thanks fer the link.Be back in ony one minute

[delemtri]

It's linked to the Bible, not to God. God is in our terms not existing only in this book.

Yes, God in the terms of the normal universe. In the Potterverse, God does interviews sometimes. Are you truly saying you disbelieve Her word?

The movie can be hardly canon. I didn't say they were at any point canon rather that they are like canon, thats bit different.

Maybe I was confused because you didn't substantiate your argument with anything except the movies. :)

There are really three options for quotes.

1) They are canon.
2) They are not canon because they are not necessarily true. (Are you calling JKR a liar? etc. etc. ad nauseam.)
3) They are necessarily true but are not canon for some other reason.

I'm just wondering what the other reason could possibly be.

[faiza]

I'm getting a bit tired of the question myself, but I'd feel wrong not asking it. Sorry. I'll try to be a bit more unpredictable.

's okay. I'd do the same if it were me.

The door banged open. Hermione came tearing into the room, her cheeks flushed and her hair flying. There was an envelope in her hand.

"Did you - did you get -?" She spotted the badge in Harry's hand and let out a shriek. "I knew it!" she said excitedly, brandishing her letter. "Me too, Harry, me too!"

"No," said Harry quickly, pushing the badge back into Ron's hand. "It's Ron, not me."

"It - what? I-"

"Ron's prefect, not me," Harry said.

"Ron?" said Hermione, her jaw dropping. "But ... are you sure? I mean -" She turned red as Ron looked round at her with a defiant expression on his face.

"It's my name on the letter," he said.

"I ..." said Hermione, looking thoroughly bewildered.


This is one of my favorite scenes in OotP. And I think you know why. How could you possibly explain Hermione's reaction if she fancied Ron?

He dashed from the room, leaving Harry and Hermione alone.

For some reason, Harry found he did not want to look at Hermione. He turned to his bed, picked up the pile of clean robes Mrs Weasley had laid on it and crossed the room to his trunk.

What could possibly be the reason Harry doesn't want to look at Hermione?

After several more minutes had passed, however, Harry was not the only one watching Hermione.

So Harry watches Hermione in class huh :eyebrows:


"Miss Granger, I am going to take five points from Gryffindor house."

There was an outbreak of muttering at this. "What for?" said Harry angrily.

"Don't you get involved!" Hermione whispered urgently to him.

So it's not only Ron who stands up to a teacher for Hermione.

Harry did not speak to Hermione all through Charms, but when they entered Transfiguration he forgot about being cross with her.

He forgets being mad at her.

It was the first time she had ever said Voldemort's name and it was this, more than anything else, that calmed Harry.

So you see, the mere fact that Hermione says Voldemort, calms Harry.

not for the first time, a voice very much like Hermione's whispered in his ear: reckless.

It came as a slight shock when somebody hammered hard on the door a few minutes later.
"I know you're in there," said Hermione's voice. "Will you please come out? I want to talk to you."


And what do you know, Harry comes out.

Cho raised her eyebrows. "You're meeting Hermione Granger? Today?"

"Yeah. Well, she asked me to, so I thought I would.

Whipped.

Harry felt a surge of pride in Hermione's jinxing ability

"That was a really horrible trick of Hermione Granger's," said Cho fiercely. "She should have told us she'd jinxed that list -"

"I think it was a brilliant idea," said Harry coldly. Cho flushed and her eyes grew brighter.

"Oh yes, I forgot - of course, if it was darling Hermione's idea -"

Even through his anger and impatience, Harry recognised Hermione's offer to accompany him into Umbridge's office as a sign of solidarity and loyalty

"Well, well, well!" said Umbridge, looking triumphant. "Little Miss Question-all is going to give us some answers! Come on then, girl, come on!"

"Er - my - nee - no!" shouted Ron through his gag.

Ginny was staring at Hermione as though she had never seen her before. Neville, still choking for breath, was gazing at her, too. But Harry had just noticed something. Though Hermione was sobbing desperately into her hands, there was no trace of a tear.

No one believes in Hermione. They all think she's going to tell Umbridge, except for Harry. He's very good in noticing things about Hermione no one else notices.

Harry and Hermione moved together instinctively and peered through the trees.

Not compatible. Ha.

"HERMIONE!"

Harry fell to his knees beside her as Neville crawled rapidly towards her from under the desk, his wand held up in front of him.

[...]

A whine of panic inside his head was preventing him thinking properly: he had one hand on Hermione's shoulder, which was still warm, yet did not dare look at her properly. Don't let her be dead, don't let her be dead, it's my fault if she's dead...

[...]

"Hermione," Harry said at once, shaking her as the baby-headed Death Eater blundered out of sight again. "Hermione, wake up,"

[...]

"Dat's a pulse, Harry, I'b sure id is."

Such a powerful wave of relief swept through Harry that for a moment he felt light-headed

"I - er - heard she's going out with someone else now," said Hermione tentatively.
Harry was surprised to find that this information did not hurt at all.

Great, he's moved on. Time for him to notice someone else, Hermione maybe?
Not that he hasn't already...

[noodle]

Great, he's moved on. Time for him to notice someone else, Hermione maybe?
Not that he hasn't already...
Nah, Harry isn't into Hermione at all - she's not his type. Ginny on the other hand... :blush:

[eRiN_GRyFFiN]

Yes, God in the terms of the normal universe. In the Potterverse, God does interviews sometimes. Are you truly saying you disbelieve Her word?

Not at all, sure...we have no reason to disvelieve her word. But if there's a word that fits the Potterverse, it's the word secret. And surprise.

So I'm not saying Jo is telling lies, not at all. But if I were her (who knows, maybe I am.. :p) I wouldn't mind to be...playful, with my universe. Just like..I don't know, telling that I will need extendable fingers to type really soon, and be announcing the HBP release a week later :D

again, I love this woman:D

[snoopy_bombay]

Nah, Harry isn't into Hermione at all - she's not his type. Ginny on the other hand... :blush:

do you mind me asking why isn't hermione harry's type?what is it distinguishes hermione and ginny?

[FlyingPhoenix]

There are really three options for quotes.

1) They are canon.
2) They are not canon because they are not necessarily true. (Are you calling JKR a liar? etc. etc. ad nauseam.)
3) They are necessarily true but are not canon for some other reason.

It would be 3. Canon is what's ploted and written in a book. The reason why this quotes is simple as that they are ripped out information about canon, you get a limited answer, to a limited question about a story which isn't finished.
It's like Petrus who read the Old Testament asks God in an interview if he ever will have a son, is that canon? Certainly not. I just can imagine him saying: You really think so?
:rotfl:

[faiza]

Nah, Harry isn't into Hermione at all - she's not his type. Ginny on the other hand...

And what is his type? Cho? The only reason Harry "broke up" with Cho is because she's jealous of Hermione, but I'm pretty sure he won't have that problem with Hermione.

Let's see...Cho is:

1.pretty
2.smart
3.seeker
4.popular
5.loyal to her friends

1. So is Hermione
2. So is Hermione
3. Quidditch wasn't enough to base a relationship on with Cho and it won't be enough with Ginny. Besides, he has Ron for Quidditch talk.
4. Not important for Harry. In fact, he hates it.
5. So is Hermione. And who is her friend? Harry. Perfect.

[noodle]

do you mind me asking why isn't hermione harry's type?what is it distinguishes hermione and ginny?
I don't think Hermione's Harrys type because nowhere in canon have I seen evidence that Harry is interested in her in a romantic way. He does care a lot about her just as he does about Ron, but that's it! He's known her for 5 years and he never ever gave any indication that he might fall in love with her and with JKRs confirmation (that some ppl still question, for my amazement) on various occasions I don't think he ever will.

Ginny on the other hand has alaways been a bit left out untill OotP where she re-surfaced and already managed to establish a great bond with Harry, with a great margin for improvement, whereas I don't think the relationship between Harry and Hermione will improve any further - they already know each other like the palm of their hands and there's no tension there at all and there's NO reason to believe there will be.

I guess Luna is a good contender too, but I just have a hunch (can't really explain this one) that Ginny will be the one!

[faiza]

I don't think Hermione's Harrys type because nowhere in canon have I seen evidence that Harry is interested in her in a romantic way. He's known her for 5 years and he never ever gave any indication that he might fall in love with her


The same applies for Ginny.

[noodle]

And what is his type? Cho? The only reason Harry "broke up" with Cho is because she's jealous of Hermione, but I'm pretty sure he won't have that problem with Hermione.

Let's see...Cho is:

1.pretty
2.smart
3.seeker
4.popular
5.loyal to her friends

1. So is Hermione
2. So is Hermione
3. Quidditch wasn't enough to base a relationship on with Cho and it won't be enough with Ginny. Besides, he has Ron for Quidditch talk.
4. Not important for Harry. In fact, he hates it.
5. So is Hermione. And who is her friend? Harry. Perfect.
That's all very nice but you seem to forget that romance is not mathematics!
You either "click" with some1, or you don't. Harry and Hermione don't.

It would be great if we could choose our partners as rationally as you put it, maybe then a lot of people wouldn't be alone in this world, but unfortunatly it's not that simple.

Edit:
The same applies for Ginny.
Ginny and Harry still have room to grow as they don't know each other THAT well though, Harry and Hermione are super close!! If something were to happen surely it would be more obvious by now?

[Deevo]

And if this were a romance story you'd be quite right. However it isn't, it's a good old good vs evil story and any romance is going to be a secondary issue. Not to say that it's not a significant one but a secondary one nonetheless.
Oh, sure. But really, I'm certain we all find this aspect of the books to be the most amusing. Otherwise, why is it being discussed so much? :p
I think mainly because it's always fun to speculate. Then again there are some that take it a tad too seriously. :huh:



maybe romance is not the main part of the books but still it is an integral part.
As I said.

But what if romance makes his life worth living?I mean just like the DA.Jkr said that if she were harry she would hide somewhere.Wouldn't romance really cheer him up?
Of course it would and JKR as already said that he'll be in for a little romance in HBP. Some have suggested that the use of little may give us a clue to who that might involve and while I agree with the possibility (Little Ginny) I don't necessarily follow the reasoning, it just seems a bit too much of a reach for me.

I guess we should just keep it to Harry's romance
:no: Naa, that'd be no fun.

The books may be Harry's perspective but the story is a bit broader than just his, there are secondary significant characters who's lives can be explored too despite the trials of our hero. I've been lucky enough not to have lived through a war but my parents did and one thing I did learn from them was that regardless of how dark or dire the situation (and Britain in 1940 was a dark and dire place to live) you still carry on with life and to me that includes love.

[The Garbage Man]

No she's had it all planned from before the first book was published and your statement here Garbage Man just goes to show that if you don't pay attention, you miss out, but her intentional misleading as you would characterize it doesn't exist. Also if you think her quotes are nonsense are then saying that her site is too, that HBP isn't ready and won't be out in July, that Luna and Neville will fall in love, Hermione and Drac will too? C'mon read all her quotes, you've been to Quickquills they're all there, Jo is amazingly consistent and when's she's made a mistake, she herself will mention it and correct it, example, the ages of Bill and Charlie, the unexpected length of Order and Hermione's age.

No-I'm-saying (For once again hopefully the last time) she makes back doors with her shipping quotes that makes her reveal nothing at all which was the entire point of me posting those quotes. The only way she can dispel it permanantly is to respond to "Will H/Hr ever become romantically involve?" and respond a flat "No" with absolutely no 'buts' or 'ands'. Which she doesn't, and instead says 'do you really think'.

I, of course, agree with you that the GOF quote can be interpreted as Ron liking Fleur, just as much as it can be argued he liked Hermione. It can go either way therefore it tells nothing.

And your attempt to make fun of my forum name is duly noted and laughed at.

[snoopy_bombay]

Can anyone give me a rational explanation about the prefect's badge instance where harry doesn't mind looking directly at ron but for some reason finds that he doesn't want to look at hermione.Also why does he talk to ron normally whereas he talks to hermione in a horrible hearty voice that isn't his own?(Herons and Harmonians I don't mind anyone answering)

[delemtri]

It would be 3. Canon is what's ploted and written in a book. The reason why this quotes is simple as that they are ripped out information about canon, you get a limited answer, to a limited question about a story which isn't finished.
It's like Petrus who read the Old Testament asks God in an interview if he ever will have a son, is that canon? Certainly not. I just can imagine him saying: You really think so?
:rotfl:

You're mischaracterizing my argument. Obviously there are interpretation issues with interviews, just like with books. Generally people know the limitations of these quotes and don't push them too hard. But saying a quote isn't canon - I mean, if we're going by that N/L could still sail, D/H could still sail.

Can anyone give me a rational explanation about the prefect's badge instance where harry doesn't mind looking directly at ron but for some reason finds that he doesn't want to look at hermione.Also why does he talk to ron normally whereas he talks to hermione in a horrible hearty voice that isn't his own?(Herons and Harmonians I don't mind anyone answering)

There's a time interval between when he talks to Hermione and to Ron - he gets over the shock.

's okay. I'd do the same if it were me.

Good post. All of the quotations have alternate explanations, of course, but they present the possibility of Harry's interest - some of them, that is - there are some which I point-blank disagree with your interpretation on. But, again, well-posted.

Just thought I'd throw in a response to your other post: Hermione is *not pretty.* She was stunningly attractive at the Yule Ball, and this was *unusual.* She's "not ugly."

[Corbin Dallas]

1.)I, of course, agree with you that the GOF quote can be interpreted as Ron liking Fleur, just as much as it can be argued he liked Hermione. It can go either way therefore it tells nothing.

2.)And your attempt to make fun of my forum name is duly noted and laughed at.1.) that's why I put that quote from Jo about Ron actually being after Fleur, Ron started to crush for Hermione but as Jo say's he doesn't even realize it yet and wasn't after Hermione thus Ron-->Hr for the everybody's after the wrong person doesn't apply to them, nice try though ;)
2.) I wasn't aware i was making fun of your ID, perhaps you are reading too much into something that's not there, get me ;) '-

Can anyone give me a rational explanation about the prefect's badge instance where harry doesn't mind looking directly at ron but for some reason finds that he doesn't want to look at hermione.Also why does he talk to ron normally whereas he talks to hermione in a horrible hearty voice that isn't his own?(Herons and Harmonians I don't mind anyone answering)
Well at the beginning Harry is jealous, he can't believe he forgot and he didn't think Ron deserved it. At this time Hermione asked to use Hedwig to tell her parents, funny you'd think she would comfort her "LI" for not being made Prefect but oh well, so after Hermione leaves Harry takes stock and aside from Flying and Dark Arts, Harry admits to himself that he doesn't have better grades than Ron, Harry goes on to site his adventures as to why he should have been selected then it hit him, he thought he was sounding like Draco, and this Harry couldn't abide. He accepted Ron was selected and congradulated Ron, who admitted himself Harry should have been chosen, so in a nutshell, first reaction absolute jealousy and couldn't let anyone see him like that, upon self reflection he couldn't believe he was acting like Draco, get me ;) '-
CD

[FlyingPhoenix]

You're mischaracterizing my argument. Obviously there are interpretation issues with interviews, just like with books. Generally people know the limitations of these quotes and don't push them too hard. But saying a quote isn't canon - I mean, if we're going by that N/L could still sail, D/H could still sail.

Well, no, canon means what written in the books, says that if JKR says in an interview a ship won't happen that's not canon but a fact she gives, thats different. Just because I say her interviews aren't canon, don't mean I think she is lying or that N/LL is still possible all it says thats not written in her books yet, not in her story. This are informations we get aside canon. Written in canon isn't changeable but quotes and informations are. If JKR wanted to she could say now D/Hr can still happen though I doubt she did this say at all.
Just like our predicts for future books aren't canon. It's only canon if you have a little book saying Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince and there in some chapter its written black on white, thats canon.

[IceKat55]

Considering there was little to no romance in book 3 at all, I seriously question how the director got off adding all that. Sure Rowling has to give it the go ahead, but the movies are still not the books.
I don't think he did add any 'romance' in the 3rd movie. What they did was insinuate the tension, and the bubbling feelings, between R/Hr that has not yet come to a header. The insinuations are also in the books, thought not as much as Books 4 & 5, obviously...they simply put them in the movies (non-hug at the end of CoS, all of PoA) a bit earlier.

Oh, and you answered your own question. The director(s) "got off adding all that", because Rowling allowed them to. Hmmm...I reckon she considers it true to the books, then! :)

[delemtri]

Well, no, canon means what written in the books, says that if JKR says in an interview a ship won't happen that's not canon but a fact she gives, thats different. Just because I say her interviews aren't canon, don't mean I think she is lying or that N/LL is still possible all it says thats not written in her books yet, not in her story. This are informations we get aside canon. Written in canon isn't changeable but quotes and informations are. If JKR wanted to she could say now D/Hr can still happen though I doubt she did this say at all.
Just like our predicts for future books aren't canon. It's only canon if you have a little book saying Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince and there in some chapter its written black on white, thats canon.

So your "other reason" is that you expect JKR to do something she said in an interview she won't?

[Corbin Dallas]

Chibimono: Do you have any future plans in particular for Draco Malfoy?
JK Rowling replies -> I've got plans for all my characters. Actually, this is a really good place to answer a question about Draco and Hermione, which a certain Ms. Radcliffe is desperate to have answered. Will they end up together in book six/seven? NO! The trouble is, of course, that girls fancy Tom Felton, but Draco is NOT Tom Felton! (My daughter likes TF very much too, because he taught her how to use a diablo)
http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrwbd.shtml
As you can see Jo says No! to Hermione and Draco and it was her, get me ;) '-
CD

[ArmaDeuS]

Why is it that when Hermione wants to help out Ron with his problems, it means she's madly in love with him, but when she helps Harry out with his problems it's because she's just a good friend to him?

Yeesh I totally agree... juz further up the page theres a list of how hermione helped Ron.. and then theres this thoughtless comment -"I would love to hear some H/Hr momments" if that list counts as romatic "momments" then i think the H/Hr momments would out number R/Hr 2 to 1 . =.= Besides no matter how much we debate there is still no concrete evidence of hu likes hu.. therefore we are mainly basing our arguements on the potential present in their friendship that can develop into a romatic relationship.

[IceKat55]

Quote:
Originally Posted by noodle
I don't think Hermione's Harrys type because nowhere in canon have I seen evidence that Harry is interested in her in a romantic way. He's known her for 5 years and he never ever gave any indication that he might fall in love with her
The same applies for Ginny.
Not really, no it doesn't. Harry and Hermione are very, very close, have spent lots and lots of time together, they know each other well. And we have gotten zero indications that Harry has ever remotely viewed her, either consciously or not, in a romantic light.

While Ginny has been kept very much on the backburner until Rowling was ready to let her explode into view. Harry, as of the end of OotP, had just begun to scrape the surface of finding out who Ginny is and what she's all about.

What should be the purpose of that, do you think? A minor, teeny tiny character, hardly significant, barely a blip on the radar, except to activate the Chamber in Book 2. Why bother keeping her around, then? Why bother bringing her more into the spotlight and giving her such major character development in book 5? :huh:

[delemtri]

Yeesh I totally agree... juz further up the page theres a list of how hermione helped Ron.. and then theres this thoughtless comment -"I would love to hear some H/Hr momments" if that list counts as romatic "momments" then i think the H/Hr momments would out number R/Hr 2 to 1 . =.= Besides no matter how much we debate there is still no concrete evidence of hu likes hu.. therefore we are mainly basing our arguements on the potential present in their friendship that can develop into a romatic relationship.

No, there's no definite answer to who Hermione likes (Harry likes, I think it's fair to say, nobody at this point). We know Ron likes Hermione and that's half the battle.

[IceKat55]

Besides no matter how much we debate there is still no concrete evidence of hu likes hu.. therefore we are mainly basing our arguements on the potential present in their friendship that can develop into a romatic relationship.
Ms Rowling seems to disagree with you, via her own website:

Q: Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?

JKR: I can't believe some of you haven't worked this one out yet, but I'm not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.
:eyebrows:

[ArmaDeuS]

No, there's no definite answer to who Hermione likes (Harry likes, I think it's fair to say, nobody at this point). We know Ron likes Hermione and that's half the battle.

Yes..! but which friendship has more potential Ron or Harrys? :eyebrows:

[FlyingPhoenix]

So your "other reason" is that you expect JKR to do something she said in an interview she won't?

Eh, no. I wrote: This are informations we get aside canon. Written in canon isn't changeable but quotes and informations are. If JKR wanted to she could say now D/Hr can still happen though I doubt she did this say at all.

[IceKat55]

Yes..! but which friendship has more potential Ron or Harrys? :eyebrows:
There is, quite often, a huge difference between individual interpretation/preference, and what Rowling writes as (and what she considers to be) clues. :D

IMO, Harry & Ron are both very important to Hermione, on two different levels. Harry and Hermione have a deep bond of friendship that will last a lifetime. Ron and Hermione are good friends, as well as the romantically compatible pair. And I don't ship them because I want them to happen....I ship them because of the clues that Rowling has planted (rather obviously, IMO) in her books. :)

[ArmaDeuS]

Ms Rowling seems to disagree with you, via her own website:

Q: Does Hermione love Ron or Harry?

JKR: I can't believe some of you haven't worked this one out yet, but I'm not going to answer because that would spoil the arguments, which I enjoy.
:eyebrows:

Somtimes, wat the author finds obvious may be totally oblivious to the readers. And again the quote does not Say "i can't belive some of you haven't worked this one out, its ron" hence the quote can be used for pro Harry. Besides if it was THAT obvious this thread wouldnt be here nor this active. So its pretty muchs still ambiguous

[delemtri]

Eh, no. I wrote: This are informations we get aside canon. Written in canon isn't changeable but quotes and informations are. If JKR wanted to she could say now D/Hr can still happen though I doubt she did this say at all.

I'm just trying to see where you're coming from, because you're saying something which you know will be true is inadmissable as evidence in a debate. Or is that you just don't like calling it "canon" - because that I can understand.

[ArmaDeuS]

There is, quite often, a huge difference between individual interpretation/preference, and what Rowling writes as (and what she considers to be) clues. :D

IMO, Harry & Ron are both very important to Hermione, on two different levels. Harry and Hermione have a deep bond of friendship that will last a lifetime. Ron and Hermione are good friends, as well as the romantically compatible pair. And I don't ship them because I want them to happen....I ship them because of the clues that Rowling has planted (rather obviously, IMO) in her books. :)

Ok should i rephrase me Q. Who gets along better H/Hr or R/Hr. The thing is Ron's and Hermione's friendship is mainly based on tension, and they rarely agree on anything (except their loyalty to Harry) now how can this develop into a romatic relationship and if it does how long will it last? Then there is the H/Hr friendship and im not going to rat on about how close they are and how much they care for each other blah blah blah.. But Rowling has shown this "platonic" friendship is every sing HP book and she has also shown that Harry can "survive" (as in LIVE) without Ron but not hermione e.g GoF - Task 1. Can you fall in love with someone who has total and opposite ideas or hobbies?

[delemtri]

Can you fall in love with someone who has total and opposite ideas or hobbies? Why yes.

Tension (so you know) is *the* basic creative force.

Just wanted to note - it's a bit silly to bash Ron. Sure, we all get worked up over it, but JKR loves him and so does Harry. So, basically, I could care less how much you think Harry needs Ron. I'm tired of listening to this argument because it's simply illogical.

[ArmaDeuS]

Why yes.

Tension (so you know) is *the* basic creative force.

And is that it? Is that all they have Tension? Is their relationship based on one thing... If R/Hr does happen, for it to last Ron or Hermione have to change, especially Ron he would have to comprimise considerably mature, (if u havent notices Hermione is pretty mature for her age) u kinda edited ur last post so let me update mine :lol: . Im not talking about hu needs hu more i just stated Harry and Hermione fit together very well even WITHOUT ron

[delemtri]

And is that it? Is that all they have Tension? Is their relationship based on one thing... If R/Hr does happen, for it to last Ron or Hermione have to change, especially Ron he would have to comprimise considerably mature, (if u havent notices Hermione is pretty mature for her age)

I'm not sure why I keep arguing with people who think Hermione is too good for Ron. She's empirically (based on Harry's and JKR's views of the characters) not.

Ron and Hermione's relationship is based in tension, a *warm* bond of friendship, and mutual devotion to the boy who must vanquish Voldemort.

Im not talking about hu needs hu more i just stated Harry and Hermione fit together very well even WITHOUT ron

If you expect either of them to drop Ron as a friend, you haven't read the books enough and should go reread them right now.

[FlyingPhoenix]

I'm just trying to see where you're coming from, because you're saying something which you know will be true is inadmissable as evidence in a debate. Or is that you just don't like calling it "canon" - because that I can understand.

I don't like to call a tree, a tree yet I call it a tree because its a tree. Nah, I call it Baum since the german word is nicer but anyway you get what I mean. I did call quotes canon, if it were canon, but its not.

Maybe you entlight me what you understand under canon? Probably everything what an author says and does? Well, its changeable so it can't be canon. Canon suggest that its not changeable. An interview can be re-done and JKR answers differently but her books which are published can't be changed.
Our problem is obviously that her story isn't finished but then again thats the challenge, when do you have an opportunity to interpret an unfinished story? This must be a feast for English Majors

[Laufa]

And is that it? Is that all they have Tension? Is their relationship based on one thing... If R/Hr does happen, for it to last Ron or Hermione have to change, especially Ron he would have to comprimise considerably mature, (if u havent notices Hermione is pretty mature for her age)

Hermione is alot older than the boys - but is she so mature, just because she's serious? And is being able to goof around immature?

I don't think Ron has to change. He will mature - he already has, mind you - and they already have a brilliant friendship and fancy the socks off each other. What more do we need, really?

Love,
Eyrún

PS. Merry Christmas, all! If you like presents, you should come to Iceland - we have 13 Santa Clauses who give gifts 13 days before Christmas! Then you get presents from your loved ones on the 24th .. ;)

[delemtri]

I don't like to call a tree, a tree yet I call it a tree because its a tree. Nah, I call it Baum since the german word is nicer but anyway you get what I mean. I did call quotes canon, if it were canon, but its not.

Maybe you entlight me what you understand under canon? Probably everything what an author says and does? Well, its changeable so it can't be canon. Canon suggest that its not changeable. An interview can be re-done and JKR answers differently but her books which are published can't be changed.

So you think JKR will change something?

Let me ask you a question. If somebody came in here shipping D/H and N/L, would you reference the interviews?

ETA: Oh, her books can't be changed? What about the Wand Order mishap?

Our problem is obviously that her story isn't finished but then again thats the challenge, when do you have an opportunity to interpret an unfinished story? This must be a feast for English Majors

It's got nothing to do with lit crit, as I explained in my Owl to you awhile ago. :)

[snoopy_bombay]

1.) that's why I put that quote from Jo about Ron actually being after Fleur, Ron started to crush for Hermione but as Jo say's he doesn't even realize it yet and wasn't after Hermione thus Ron-->Hr for the everybody's after the wrong person doesn't apply to them, nice try though ;)
2.) I wasn't aware i was making fun of your ID, perhaps you are reading too much into something that's not there, get me ;) '-


Well at the beginning Harry is jealous, he can't believe he forgot and he didn't think Ron deserved it. At this time Hermione asked to use Hedwig to tell her parents, funny you'd think she would comfort her "LI" for not being made Prefect but oh well, so after Hermione leaves Harry takes stock and aside from Flying and Dark Arts, Harry admits to himself that he doesn't have better grades than Ron, Harry goes on to site his adventures as to why he should have been selected then it hit him, he thought he was sounding like Draco, and this Harry couldn't abide. He accepted Ron was selected and congradulated Ron, who admitted himself Harry should have been chosen, so in a nutshell, first reaction absolute jealousy and couldn't let anyone see him like that, upon self reflection he couldn't believe he was acting like Draco, get me ;) '-
CD

maybe you got it right,it kindda confused me as well that hermione din't comfort harry for not being made prefect.Maybe it isn't a h/hr situation after all!

[ArmaDeuS]

If you expect either of them to drop Ron as a friend, you haven't read the books enough and should go reread them right now.

Did i state/imply anything that has to do with dropping Ron? No. What i said was Harry and Hermione get along very well even when Ron is not there. In contrast to the likeliness of Ron and Hermione becoming friends without Harry. As u urself said that a major part of their relationships is based on their devotion to harry. Lol.. a "warm" realationship? So when they insult each other until one is on the brink of crying a warm realtionship?

[FlyingPhoenix]

Oh, her books can't be changed? What about the Wand Order mishap?

This is called correcting of a mistace, after all we're talking about humans.

Let me ask you a question. If somebody came in here shipping D/H and N/L, would you reference the interviews?

Yes, I probably did in both cases because this are informations JKR gave us. Yet, I didn't say that's canon, I wouldn't dare so.

So you think JKR will change something?

I don't say she will, I say its possible she could. She could publish HBP and it turns out the HBP is indeed Voldemort though she said he isn't. She could have lied though I don't say she did.

[snoopy_bombay]

Did i state/imply anything that has to do with dropping Ron? No. What i said was Harry and Hermione get along very well even when Ron is not there. In contrast to the likeliness of Ron and Hermione becoming friends without Harry. As u urself said that a major part of their relationships is based on their devotion to harry. Lol.. a "warm" realationship? So when they insult each other until one is on the brink of crying a warm realtionship?
good reply there

[delemtri]

Did i state/imply anything that has to do with dropping Ron? No.

Seemed to me like you were, otherwise I wouldn't have said anything.

What i said was Harry and Hermione get along very well even when Ron is not there.

Yes, but Harry gets bored with it (GOF). He gets along better with just Ron. Of course, we don't know much about how Ron and Hermione get along together, but they seemed to be having a pretty cozy time during the summer of OOTP.

In contrast to the likeliness of Ron and Hermione becoming friends without Harry. As u urself said that a major part of their relationships is based on their devotion to harry.

Yeah, but that won't be the part of the relationship that brings legions of new redheads into the world. Get me? (Sorry CD, I can't stop!)

Lol.. a "warm" realationship? So when they insult each other until one is on the brink of crying a warm realtionship?

That hasn't happened since the first book. Give me a break.

Yes, I probably did in both cases because this are informations JKR gave us. Yet, I didn't say that's canon, I wouldn't dare so.

So quotes are, really, functionally the same as canon? That is, they're both usable as evidence in a debate?

[IceKat55]

Ok should i rephrase me Q. Who gets along better H/Hr or R/Hr. The thing is Ron's and Hermione's friendship is mainly based on tension, and they rarely agree on anything (except their loyalty to Harry) now how can this develop into a romatic relationship and if it does how long will it last? Then there is the H/Hr friendship and im not going to rat on about how close they are and how much they care for each other blah blah blah.. But Rowling has shown this "platonic" friendship is every sing HP book and she has also shown that Harry can "survive" (as in LIVE) without Ron but not hermione e.g GoF - Task 1. Can you fall in love with someone who has total and opposite ideas or hobbies?
Because R/Hr is based on romantic tension, IMO. Their true feelings have not yet been spoken aloud, so that causes the confused tension between them.

Harry and Hermione are good friends, of course. However, IMO, there is a huge aspect of Hermione's personality that Harry can not, and will not, face head on, and that is her badgering and nagging. She does not try and coax Harry (or Ron) gently - - she hisses and nags and bulldozes. Ron is used to this type of personality...he grew up with a mother like that. He responds to it head-on.

Harry does not. He cowers from it, and will frequently attempt to tune her out, avoid issues in order to avoid a confrontation, and has even lied to her to keep her from nagging him. This makes them 100% incompatible on a romantic level, IMO. :)

[ArmaDeuS]

That hasn't happened since the first book. Give me a break.



*sigh* and u yold me to reread the book. How bout PoA? When Crookshanks is accused of eating his Rat. Or The Yule Ball, when he accuses her of fraternizing with the enemy..... i would directly quote but i dont have the books with me

Yeesh i swear 20 threads ago, H/Hr shippers would swamp this place.. now its totally the opposite

[Lucía_Black]

Personally, I think Hermione will be dating Ron for some time, and then she will discover that Harry is her true love, or viceversa (I prefer the first thing than viceversa, but whatever)

[snoopy_bombay]

The reason I feel harry gets bored when he is alone with hermione is because they aren't discussing the right things.Hermione needs to change a bit.She needs to add a bit of humour and fun to her life to become the right girl for harry.(she shouldn't have given up divination after all)

[delemtri]

*sigh* and u yold me to reread the book. How bout PoA? When Crookshanks is accused of eating his Rat. Or The Yule Ball, when he accuses her of fraternizing with the enemy..... i would directly quote but i dont have the books with me

You said "insults." Ron does not insult Hermione in either of those passages - he accuses her of things, but does not call her names.

Yeesh i swear 20 threads ago, H/Hr shippers would swamp this place.. now its totally the opposite

My heart bleeds for you. Seriously.

The reason I feel harry gets bored when he is alone with hermione is because they aren't discussing the right things.Hermione needs to change a bit.She needs to add a bit of humour and fun to her life to become the right girl for harry.(she shouldn't have given up divination after all)

I'm cool with Hermione not changing a bit, myself. I like her. Same goes for Harry and Ron.

[ArmaDeuS]

My heart bleeds for you. Seriously.

You know not everything i say is directed towards you, that was a general statment and you shouldnt take this so personally (for god sake this is a debate about romance in a CHILDREN's Book). Seriously.

[delemtri]

You know not everything i say is directed towards you, that was a general statment and you shouldnt take it so personally (for god sake this is a debate about romance in a CHILDREN's Book). Seriously.

So you're not disputing the fact that you were wrong when you said that Ron and Hermione insulted each other during the Scabbers/Crookshanks and YuleBrawl incidents? Good.

You want to pine for the lost days of H/H hegemony? Go right ahead. I was here for 'em; you can find me on the third incarnation of the Book V Love Thread, getting pummeled by a half-dozen Harmonians (they weren't called that at the time) at once.

[ArmaDeuS]

So you're not disputing the fact that you were wrong when you said that Ron and Hermione insulted each other during the Scabbers/Crookshanks and YuleBrawl incidents? Good.

Well im sry i used the word "insult" not accuse/dispute/argue/quarrel/clash, cause thts wat i meant, and i didnt reply to ur agrument because i was appalled more by ur latter statment

[snoopy_bombay]

So you're not disputing the fact that you were wrong when you said that Ron and Hermione insulted each other during the Scabbers/Crookshanks and YuleBrawl incidents? Good.

You want to pine for the lost days of H/H hegemony? Go right ahead. I was here for 'em; you can find me on the third incarnation of the Book V Love Thread, getting pummeled by a half-dozen Harmonians (they weren't called that at the time) at once.

really?I din't know there used to be so many harmonians.Where the hell have they gone?

[delemtri]

Well im sry i used the word "insult" not accuse/dispute/argue/quarrel/clash, cause thts wat i meant, and i didnt reply to ur agrument because i was appalled more by ur latter statment

Sorry. I'll try not to insult you like that again. I mean, appall you like that again.

really?I din't know there used to be so many harmonians.Where the hell have they gone?

Portkey, where they're safe.

[FlyingPhoenix]

So quotes are, really, functionally the same as canon? That is, they're both usable as evidence in a debate?

They aren't functionally as canon because like I said unlike canon are interviews ambiguous and mostly uncertain. However this two answers regarding this two ships are very certain something what JKR usually didn't in the past.
In a serious debate nobody did honestly use this as evidence, esp. if you know they can be laid out differently this were rather foolswork IMO. A serious debate did focus on canon, on what each debater is able to read in canon, also we did read serious criticsm at JKR as author too. In fact in such a debate we did go by far deeper in the meaning of this books and why they are that succesfully. What on this thread happens isn't a debate, this is called showing each other an evagelium in attempt to convince each other how wrong this ship is.

The first rule in a debate like this one is to respect and to see the possibility of the opponents ship. Says in my case that I consider R/Hr being possible to happen just like you consider that H/hr can happen based on this we rip JKR's work apart and see whether its write able and how this books did appear by each possibility.

Strangely enough I did this with a lot H/Hr shipper but only with one R/Hr shipper. I'm not someone who bows to JKR's writing, contrary I won't ever say she is the best author I had the fortune to read.

A nice quote from a movie called "The Village": Everything bows to love.
Fascinating that if Buckbeak is a symbolism for Love, then Harry did bow to love. I think this is a nice methapor. Esp. if we consider Sirius was connected to Buckbeak, too.

[delemtri]

They aren't functionally as canon because like I said unlike canon are interviews ambiguous and mostly uncertain.

But you said you would use them to debate against D/H and N/L. Why are they unimportant in Heron vs. Harmony debates? Why is this not a double standard?

[ArmaDeuS]

Sorry. I'll try not to insult you like that again [ooo look a statement worth reading]. I mean, appall you like that again. [oh wait no its juz sarcasim, HAHAH ur soooooooo funny]

[FlyingPhoenix]

You want to pine for the lost days of H/H hegemony? Go right ahead. I was here for 'em; you can find me on the third incarnation of the Book V Love Thread, getting pummeled by a half-dozen Harmonians (they weren't called that at the time) at once.

:lol: And you got lost, didn't you? I mean on which Thread did you turn up again? In one where R/hr shipper were dominateing.

But you said you would use them to debate against D/H and N/L. Why are they unimportant in Heron vs. Harmony debates? Why is this not a double standard?

It's not a doublestandard because unlike to H/Hr or R/Hr JKR did downright say D/Hr (since D/H would be something else) won't happen. So I use them though with a knowledge that JKR could come out and say "Haha I lied D/Hr is the OTP". Though I highly doubt this.

[delemtri]

It's not a doublestandard because unlike to H/Hr or R/Hr JKR did downright say D/Hr (since D/H would be something else) won't happen. So I use them though with a knowledge that JKR could come out and say "Haha I lied D/Hr is the OTP". Though I highly doubt this.

Like I said before, you're mischaracterizing my argument. I don't think there is any sure consensus on what JKR's interview quotes mean; the debate here has certainly borne that out. But that doesn't mean that they should be off the table completely, especially not if we're using other interview quotes to dismiss ships we might not like as much.

:lol: And you got lost, didn't you? I mean on which Thread did you turn up again? In one where R/hr shipper were dominateing.

Yup. And anybody who doesn't like it can cry me a river.

I certainly didn't stay around reading the threads waiting for Heron to dominate. I left for over a year, then got back into it after somebody at school mentioned the possibility of a release date back in November. It's cool that there are more Herons, but whatever. Occasionally there are more people on at one time who ship Harmony (as right now, you see!) but it doesn't really matter.

[snoopy_bombay]

I think everyone of the shippers in this debate (including me) are far from right.Really jkr has kept all her options open.The films aren't helping either.Jkr has about a thousand girls to offer harry and I guess she will pop up a very unusual surprise.However I also believe that whatever happens she will also see to it that most of the shippers are kept happy.Maybe she'll do both r/hr and h/hr or something like that.She'll definitely see to it that the end for who harry ends up with is most rational.
probably my last quote for today,thought i'd end it on a positive note. Again wishing all A MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!

[FlyingPhoenix]

But that doesn't mean that they should be off the table completely, especially not if we're using other interview quotes to dismiss ships we might not like as much.

Who said that I wouldn't like to read D/Hr? This were probably a rather nice plot change yet I doubt JKR is, how does someone say it politely, able to write it in a story centered about Harry. Redeem a character is probably that what makes stories very interesting if its done well.

Like I said before, you're mischaracterizing my argument.

How I'm mischaracterizing your argument?

Yup. And anybody who doesn't like it can cry me a river.

Oh, I won't cry a river because of you. :lol:

[delemtri]

Who said that I wouldn't like to read D/Hr? This were probably a rather nice plot change yet I doubt JKR is, how does someone say it politely, able to write it in a story centered about Harry. Redeem a character is probably that what makes stories very interesting if its done well.

Nobody said you wouldn't like to read D/H. I didn't mean taking that ship off the table, I meant taking quotes off the table.

How I'm mischaracterizing your argument?

Because you seem to think I'm saying that quotes all have an objectively clear interpretation (like the nix on D/H and N/L) when really I'm just saying that all quotes have *one* valid interpretation in which they're absolutely true, and therefore they're legitimate topics for debate.

Oh, I won't cry a river because of you. :lol:

I'll keep that in mind next time somebody starts talking about how outnumbered you Harmonians are.

[stic]

How about these Jo-Quotes:JEREMY PAXMAN: But do you find the whole secrecy issue, the need for secrecy, a bit ridiculous?

JK ROWLING: No.

JEREMY PAXMAN: Why not?

JK ROWLING: No not at all. Well, a lot of it comes from me.

JEREMY PAXMAN: Really?

JK ROWLING: Yeah definitely. I mean, of course one could be cynical, and I'm sure you would be disposed to be so and say it was a marketing ploy, but I don't want the kids to know what's coming. Because that's part of the excitement of the story, and having - you know - sweated blood to create all my red herrings and lay all my clues.... to me it's not a ...this is my ....this is my....I was going to say this is my life, it's not my life, but it is a very important part of my life.

JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?

JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time.

JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?

JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.

Jo would be "miffed" if somebody could guess one romentic-related "thing" which is "the heart of the story" when Jo had "sweated blood to create all my red herrings and lay all my clues.... " :huh:

[faiza]

Ginny and Harry still have room to grow as they don't know each other THAT well

And why don't they know each other well? Because Harry hasn't put in any effort in getting to know Ron's little sister better.

Harry and Hermione are super close!! If something were to happen surely it would be more obvious by now?

It is obvious to me.

Good post. All of the quotations have alternate explanations, of course, but they present the possibility of Harry's interest - some of them, that is - there are some which I point-blank disagree with your interpretation on. But, again, well-posted.

Just thought I'd throw in a response to your other post: Hermione is *not pretty.* She was stunningly attractive at the Yule Ball, and this was *unusual.* She's "not ugly."

Thanks. I agree that they can be interpreted in another way, but the same goes for a lot of Ron/Hermione scenes too.

The opposite of 'ugly' is 'beautiful'. So if Hermione is not ugly, she's beautiful.


What should be the purpose of that, do you think? A minor, teeny tiny character, hardly significant, barely a blip on the radar, except to activate the Chamber in Book 2. Why bother keeping her around, then? Why bother bringing her more into the spotlight and giving her such major character development in book 5?

Oh yeah, not important at all. Opening the Chamber was just a sub subplot, that's why the title of the book's the Chamber of Secrets.
Why should she not be mentioned? Fred and George, Percy,...have all been developed. They are Ron's (Harry's best friend) relatives, fellow Gryffindors. Neville and Luna have also been put into the spotlight, even more so then Ginny I think.

it kindda confused me as well that hermione din't comfort harry for not being made prefect.

I think she was embarrassed because of the way she acted. She knew it would be Harry, she made this big fuss and then it turned out to be Ron.

Of course, we don't know much about how Ron and Hermione get along together, but they seemed to be having a pretty cozy time during the summer of OOTP.

Yeah, I'm sure they were having loads of fun with Hermione constantly worrying over Harry and the treat of Voldemort hanging over their heads. And Grimmauld Place is such a cozy place, the dirt and snakes all over the place and Mrs. Black constantly screeching really gets you in the mood.

she hisses and nags and bulldozes. Ron is used to this type of personality...

You say that like it's all she does all of the time. And Harry has had his share of hissing, nagging and bulldozing as well at the Dursleys.

Harry does not. He cowers from it, and will frequently attempt to tune her out, avoid issues in order to avoid a confrontation, and has even lied to her to keep her from nagging him

It's better to let some things slip then constantly having a go at each other. Especially if they have children.
Oh and Ron has never ever lied to Hermione :huh:

Portkey, where they're safe.

Hey, I threw myself in the line of fire because we were outnumbered. Usually I'm more of a lurker.

[delemtri]

Jo would be "miffed" if somebody could guess one romentic-related "thing" which is "the heart of the story" when Jo had "sweated blood to create all my red herrings and lay all my clues.... " :huh:

Yeah, and nobody's guessed H/H.

Hey, I threw myself in the line of fire because we were outnumbered. Usually I'm more of a lurker.

Admirable.

[IceKat55]

How about these Jo-Quotes:



Jo would be "miffed" if somebody could guess one romentic-related "thing" which is "the heart of the story" when Jo had "sweated blood to create all my red herrings and lay all my clues.... " :huh:
In the first quote, it was not romantic-storyline related. It was "big picture" related. These aren't romance novels.

In the second quote, (if she even was referring to romance by it) the "heart of the story" revolves around Harry Potter...seeing as how the books are his story. And it is his romance, specifically, she's kept hidden. She's flat out told us, "I'm not telling."

R/Hr? She's never been coy about them, or their pending romance. And IMO, she doesn't have to be...they're 'obviously' written in these books (to some, anyway) and they're not the "heart of the story". :)

[Padfoot_Prongs]

i think that harry will most likely end up with Ginny, as Ron hinted to him in the end of OotP. But you never know with jkr...

[stic]

delemtri wrote: Yeah, and nobody's guessed H/H.
The "thing" is not a pairing but something that explains the pairing:

"There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it"

A thing that a couple of people have skirted in their romance theories.

[delemtri]

delemtri wrote:
The "thing" is not a pairing but something that explains the pairing:

"There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it"

A thing that a couple of people have skirted in their romance theories.

I never really bought that this quote was about romance, anyway. So you think there's something deeper to H/H than just them liking each other? You think that's what JKR is hinting at here?

[IceKat55]

And why don't they know each other well? Because Harry hasn't put in any effort in getting to know Ron's little sister better.
Yet. :)

The opposite of 'ugly' is 'beautiful'. So if Hermione is not ugly, she's beautiful.
Matter of opinion. Harry may see her as simply "Hermione". No, he doesn't think she's "ugly", but maybe he doesn't necessarily think she's "beautiful", either. She's just his good friend...why does it have to be more than that?

Oh yeah, not important at all. Opening the Chamber was just a sub subplot, that's why the title of the book's the Chamber of Secrets.
And then she disappeared for two whole books...was barely even mentioned. Until Book 5.

Why do you suppose Rowling did that? Why bother to write Ginny back in at all? (Not to mention giving her such drastic development and making her so much more important.)

Oh yeah. Probably a red-herring, right? :lol:

Why should she not be mentioned? Fred and George, Percy,...have all been developed. They are Ron's (Harry's best friend) relatives, fellow Gryffindors. Neville and Luna have also been put into the spotlight, even more so then Ginny I think.
Matter of opinion. However, I've seen subtle H/G clues since book one. My opinion. :)

I'd still love to see some brave Harmonian tackle Avada's challenge post (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1652463&postcount=778), a few pages back...

[stic]

delemtri wrote: I never really bought that this quote was about romance, anyway. So you think there's something deeper to H/H than just them liking each other? You think that's what JKR is hinting at here? :rotfl: Come on, JEREMY PAXMAN was asking about romance in Harry Potter:

So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?
And Jo talks about romance and the internet theories about romance:
JK ROWLING: They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close.
Then she talks about one special thing: No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it.

Yes, delemtri, you can "buy" that this quote was about romance. :tu:

Icekat55 wrote: And then she disappeared for two whole books...was barely even mentioned. Until Book 5.

Why do you suppose Rowling did that? N e g l e c t.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Because you seem to think I'm saying that quotes all have an objectively clear interpretation (like the nix on D/H and N/L) when really I'm just saying that all quotes have *one* valid interpretation in which they're absolutely true, and therefore they're legitimate topics for debate.

Where is the different in your post between: objectively and absolutely true? Did this implied you think this interpretation is above a objective one?
Anyway, sadly nobody on this thread is being objective, if there were someone we did realise JKR didn't say, and defacto she didn't, that H/Hr won't happen but R/Hr will.
In fact back in the days previous OotP I was probably one of the rare H/Hr shipper who said that my ship got as much valid points as R/Hr got, and I'm still saying this today even though the LoveThread had seen its own share of R/Hr essays. Only canon can convince me that I'm wrong, not you nor your interpretation. It has to be my own interpretation what let me think H/hr won't happen.

I'll keep that in mind next time somebody starts talking about how outnumbered you Harmonians are.

Harmonians had been outnumbered before on FA, so I'm rather used to it.

Yeah, and nobody's guessed H/H.

No, nobody did guess Harry's/Hand :rotfl:

Regarding that quote its a nice example how an author is rambling, reminds be a bit at Hermione and we just got a no clue what she is talking about. You know that scene as Hermione writes that letter to Rita.

[IceKat55]

Icekat55 wrote:

N e g l e c t.
Forgive me, but I almost spit Coke on my monitor when I read this!!!!!

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[stic]

Icekat55 Forgive me, but I almost spit Coke on my monitor when I read this!!!!! I thought it was funny too. :tu:
But I meant it. :eyebrows:

*Jo shuffling through her plan and her notes before starting book 5*: "Oh, right, Ginny has more appearances and dialogue than Filch the Caretaker this time. And the character's supposed to have gone through some developement. Hmmmmm, gee, I haven't really done anything with this character in the last two books that would make that developement really convincing....oh well, all I can do now is give other characters a line here and there to provide some information. :rotfl:

N e g l e c t.

PS: What's with all the chocolate and coke? For me that stuff is like cryptonite on superman!

[delemtri]

Where is the different in your post between: objectively and absolutely true? Did this implied you think this interpretation is above a objective one?
Anyway, sadly nobody on this thread is being objective, if there were someone we did realise JKR didn't say, and defacto she didn't, that H/Hr won't happen but R/Hr will.
In fact back in the days previous OotP I was probably one of the rare H/Hr shipper who said that my ship got as much valid points as R/Hr got, and I'm still saying this today even though the LoveThread had seen its own share of R/Hr essays. Only canon can convince me that I'm wrong, not you nor your interpretation. It has to be my own interpretation what let me think H/hr won't happen.

How many times do I need to tell you you're mischaracterizing my position? I was saying there's *no* clear objective interpretation for most quotes, but there's an obvious one for the sinking of D/H and N/L. You obviously agree with that.

Each time you reply you write that I'm saying something I'm not. What I'm saying - what I've said numerous times and you've *not responded to yet* - is that despite the fact that there is no clear interpretation, the quotes are obviously true and therefore there is *some* interpretation which fits with what JKR meant - therefore the quotes can be entered as evidence along with our interpretations of them, and the interpretations and their implications can be debated along with interpretations of book canon.

Yes, delemtri, you can "buy" that this quote was about romance. :tu:

Great. Great. Here I am, trying to validate an interpretation-based method of integrating quotes into canon, and a Harmonian, eternal enemy of quotes, tells me that his interpretation of an interview quote is the only valid one.

Stic, you are tiresome. And you never actually responded to my question. Do you think there is some mystery behind H/H that will be at the "heart" of it all?

[stic]

delemtri wrote:despite the fact that there is no clear interpretation, the quotes are obviously true and therefore there is *some* interpretation which fits with what JKR meant And what the true interpretation of each quote is we will only know after book 7 when Jo will have the "full & frank discussion" :tu:

[delemtri]

delemtri wrote: And what the true interpretation of each quote is we will only know after book 7 when Jo will have the "full & frank discussion" :tu:

I agree, but you don't - read your above post when you assured me that your interpretation of a quote was the correct one. Hypocrite.

[IceKat55]

Icekat55
I thought it was funny too. :tu:
But I meant it. :eyebrows:

*Jo shuffling through her plan and her notes before starting book 5*: "Oh, right, Ginny has more appearances and dialogue than Filch the Caretaker this time. And the character's supposed to have gone through some developement. Hmmmmm, gee, I haven't really done anything with this character in the last two books that would make that developement really convincing....oh well, all I can do now is give other characters a line here and there to provide some information. :rotfl:

N e g l e c t.
Oh, how I hope Rowling is lurking about & sees this!! Hilarious!! *rolls* :tu:

PS: What's with all the chocolate and coke? For me that stuff is like cryptonite on superman!
Life blood, for me! Honestly, it's amazing that I'm not diabetic, with all the sugar I injest on a daily basis. Not to mention, Christmas goodies/candies! *bounces off walls*

[yxs]

Do you think there is some mystery behind H/H that will be at the "heart" of it all?

If there is, it's a mystery that only a couple of people have guessed... means it would be hard to predict what it could be right now.
But it's possible.

[stic]

Great. Great. Here I am, trying to validate an interpretation-based method of integrating quotes into canon, and a Harmonian, eternal enemy of quotes, tells me that his interpretation of an interview quote is the only valid one. Hold on, you were doubting that Jo was talking about romance. You wrote this:I never really bought that this quote was about romance, anyway And all I did was prove that this quote was indeed about romance. :tu:
About the meaning of the romance-related quote we can debate but not about if that quote was about romance or not.

Your insulting posts have of course been reported so don't bother to edit them. Let the mods interpret if they are worth a warning. :huh:

And you never actually responded to my question. Do you think there is some mystery behind H/H that will be at the "heart" of it all?Might be.

Icekat55 wrote Life blood, for me! Honestly, it's amazing that I'm not diabetic, with all the sugar I injest on a daily basis. Not to mention, Christmas goodies/candies! *bounces off walls* ......fish & fruits & cereals & protein shakes & veggies & ..... :rotfl:

[delemtri]

Hold on, you were doubting that Jo was talking about romance. You wrote this: And all I did was prove that this quote was indeed about romance. :tu:
About the meaning of the romance-related quote is we can debate but not about if that quote was about romance or not.

Oh? What makes one part of the quote up for interpretation and the other not? There's no distinction. JKR could easily have been thinking about romance and started talking about fan sites and just kept talking without thinking about romance anymore. We won't know - by your own words - until she has her "full and frank discussion."

Your insulting posts have of course been reported so don't bother to edit them. Let the mods interpret if they are worth a warning. :huh:

I made no insulting posts. I called you a hypocrite, which you are (as I detailed above). I never intended to edit anything.

Might be.

There must be, according to your line of reasoning.

[FlyingPhoenix]

How many times do I need to tell you you're mischaracterizing my position? I was saying there's *no* clear objective interpretation for most quotes, but there's an obvious one for the sinking of D/H and N/L. You obviously agree with that.

Well, I did get that and how you see I did ask you what are you meaning with "Objective" and "One true interpretation"? Mind you, you asked me at first what is it 1, 2 or 3, I said its three and gave a reason why interviews aren't canon. Now you're on about whether JKR's quotes are as valid as canon and again I said and answered they are not, I gave you for that too a reasoning. Now I'm wondering what are you still on about? Is it that you don't asccept my reasoning? If so, say it.

Each time you reply you write that I'm saying something I'm not.

What did I say and claimed you said it like this?

What I'm saying - what I've said numerous times and you've *not responded to yet* - is that despite the fact that there is no clear interpretation, the quotes are obviously true and therefore there is *some* interpretation which fits with what JKR meant - therefore the quotes can be entered as evidence along with our interpretations of them, and the interpretations and their implications can be debated along with interpretations of book canon.

I did already reply on your claim that interviews are as valid as canon and I told you they are not. You may bring it up on this thread, yet its not for the propose of debateing them rather to convince the other how wrong he is that he must be a fool to ship this ship at all. You realise there exist a different, don't you?
It's like by a poker game an ace will count much much more as a simple card which says 5 on it. Canon is an ace, Interview at best a 5 so it did lose in a poker game.
Nobody who plays seriously poker did use this card in attempt to win or anything alike that.

In fact you can bring up everything like philosophie, religion and even astrologie on this thread yet it won't overrule canon.

EDIT: stic, I just want to say a great Sig and so true :tu:

[delemtri]

Well, I did get that and how you see I did ask you what are you meaning with "Objective" and "One true interpretation"? Mind you, you asked me at first what is it 1, 2 or 3, I said its three and gave a reason why interviews aren't canon. Now you're on about whether JKR's quotes are as valid as canon and again I said and answered they are not, I gave you for that too a reasoning. Now I'm wondering what are you still on about? Is it that you don't asccept my reasoning? If so, say it.

No, now I'm trying to figure out why you would use some quotes in a debate (the nixing of D/H and N/L) while still denying the utility of quotes in a debate.

I did already reply on your claim that interviews are as valid as canon and I told you they are not. You may bring it up on this thread, yet its not for the propose of debateing them rather to convince the other how wrong he is that he must be a fool to ship this ship at all. You realise there exist a different, don't you?

Well, no, there's not really a difference. We argue interpretations of the quotes just like we argue interpretations of the books. It's a little bit more heated at times because some quotes have possible interpretations which could sink ships - like the ones which you actually agreed you would use in a debate.

[stic]

delemtri wrote: JKR could easily have been thinking about romance and started talking about fan sites and just kept talking without thinking about romance anymore.

JEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book? Question about Romance :tu:
JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time. Answer about romance :tu: JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that? Still Romance :tu:
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. still romance :tu: And some of them even get quite close. still romance No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues. If you want to believe that Jo swapped here to talking about the theories of how Voldemort will be vanquished or if Snape is good or bad, suit yourselves. :tu:
I made no insulting posts. I called you a hypocrite, which you are :rotfl:

[FlyingPhoenix]

No, now I'm trying to figure out why you would use some quotes in a debate (the nixing of D/H and N/L) while still denying the utility of quotes in a debate.

As I said before, I did use them because they are unusually certain and not ambigious as her other answers to the big ships.

Well, no, there's not really a difference. We argue interpretations of the quotes just like we argue interpretations of the books. It's a little bit more heated at times because some quotes have possible interpretations which could sink ships - like the ones which you actually agreed you would use in a debate.

Eh, no, there is a difference and I showed you where the differents lies.

[delemtri]

As I said before, I did use them because they are unusually certain and not ambigious as her other answers to the big ships.

They're still true, regardless of ambiguity. A debate about the interpretation of the quote is both valid and pertinent.

Eh, no, there is a difference and I showed you where the differents lies.

No, you just asked me rhetorically if I realized there was a difference.

Question about Romance :tu:
Answer about romance :tu: Still Romance :tu: still romance :tu: still romance If you want to believe that Jo swapped here to talking about the theories of how Voldemort will be vanquished or if Snape is good or bad, suit yourselves. :tu:
:rotfl:

I actually believe that she switched to talking about general theories when she said "They have so much fun with their theories." No real way to prove it one way or another, though.

Here is your hypocrisy: you think quotes like the platonic quote are ambiguous, yet somehow this one isn't.

[FlyingPhoenix]

No, you just asked me rhetorically if I realized there was a difference.

Oh, I did: So quotes are, really, functionally the same as canon? That is, they're both usable as evidence in a debate?

They aren't functionally as canon because like I said unlike canon are interviews ambiguous and mostly uncertain. However this two answers regarding this two ships are very certain something what JKR usually didn't in the past.
In a serious debate nobody did honestly use this as evidence, esp. if you know they can be laid out differently this were rather foolswork IMO. A serious debate did focus on canon, on what each debater is able to read in canon, also we did read serious criticsm at JKR as author too. In fact in such a debate we did go by far deeper in the meaning of this books and why they are that succesfully. What on this thread happens isn't a debate, this is called showing each other an evagelium in attempt to convince each other how wrong this ship is.

The first rule in a debate like this one is to respect and to see the possibility of the opponents ship. Says in my case that I consider R/Hr being possible to happen just like you consider that H/hr can happen based on this we rip JKR's work apart and see whether its write able and how this books did appear by each possibility.

They're still true, regardless of ambiguity. A debate about the interpretation of the quote is both valid and pertinent.

Yet not as valid as canon.

[stic]

delemtri wrote:I actually believe that she switched to talking about general theories when she said "They have so much fun with their theoriesJEREMY PAXMAN: So there will be some pairing up will there in this book?

JK ROWLING: Well in the fullness of time. Means: I don't want to give anything away about romance in this interview. Payman tries again to get at least something about romance :
JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that? Jo again doesn't want to give anything away about certain romantic pairings because it would end fan sites who promote these very same romantic pairings:JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. Jo's reason for not ruining these same "romance" fansites: They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is funIf Jo was talking about non-romance-theory-websites, she could safely sink D/Hr or other "unlikely" ships without ruining these non-romance-theory-websites, could she? :huh: And some of them"them" referring to the mentioned fansites guessing about romance even get quite close. Even from those romance-theorisers who got close No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.
FlyingPhoenix wrote: stic, I just want to say a great Sig and so true Maybe my next tattoo. ;)

[faiza]

Yet.

Canon? (I've been waiting for an opportunity to say this for ages :p )

She's just his good friend...why does it have to be more than that?

Why can't it be more then that?

And then she disappeared for two whole books...was barely even mentioned. Until Book 5.

Why do you suppose Rowling did that? Why bother to write Ginny back in at all? (Not to mention giving her such drastic development and making her so much more important.)

Oh yeah. Probably a red-herring, right?

Yeah, I wondered about that too. But it doesn't necessarily mean she will be Harry's LI. She could've been developed for some other reason. We can not possibly know why (untill we read the next books). Wormtail dissappeared for a whole book, but I'm sure we'll be hearing more from him in HBP. If Rowling gave Ginny this super character development out of the blue just so she could be Harry's girlfriend I'd feel cheated.

[rowansjet]

Ok Stic, that quote has been the bane of my existence since I discovered this thread. Truly, people only skim read through this quote (including you). You don't actually look at what she's saying.

For one thing, Jkr DOES change into general theories at this point:
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories.At this point she includes all theories, including romance, when talking about the fans. Look at what she says: "I don't really want to say as it will ruin it for all the fan sites." At this point she is talking about romance theories, because it is directly related to the question she's asked. But she's including ALL fan sites here, not just romance oriented sites. Then she says "They have such fun with their theories." This is where she talks about every type of theory. We do have fun with our theories, including romance (well... sometimes...). Because look at the next part.
And some of them even get quite close. Some get quite close? That doesn't sound like shipping to me. With shipping, it's this, this or that. There's a very limited amount of things you can theorise about before it becomes general theories. Every ship under the sun had been theorised, including Dumbledore/Hermione (:huh:). Except those ones where one of those characters has not appeared yet, which would not be applicable here. (See below in red). Let's continue. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed as it is kind of the heart of it all.Following on from the last part, every ship has been theorised so it's impossible that no-one would have guessed. Plus, she calls it a 'thing'. No one would use this word to describe a romance that is the heart of it all, when they are the one writing it. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it.You can't skirt a ship. You either theorise about it or not. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven.Notice she says "this will happen", not "So and So will get together." Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues. Everything's been building up to it? So the book IS a Romance Novel?! I don't think so. Romance hasn't really played a major part until GoF, and even then, it's just been crushes and fancies. As for the bit in red, this shows that this quote wouldn't even apply in anyway to a character who hasn't been introduced yet, since there would need to be clues, which is impossible without the character.

Anyhoo, this theory which is the heart of it all being about romance is a load of balderdash, and people everywhere need to open up their eyes. Cos i really hate repeating myself.

BTW Stic, I've forgotten how this helps Harmony in anyway, considering people have guessed Harmony anyway.

Oh, and I also HATE this quote. It makes people look stupid.

[daz]

Its great to have stic and Flying phoenix back here. You guys are so good at debating H/HR.

You both all so make me laugh. Keep up the good work for the mother ship.

[CornedBee]

Edit: lightinthedark seems to have deleted his/her post. It's quoted in the post below this one.

Indeed, lightinthedark, but as long as Heron and Harmony are debated, every other debate will always be drowned out, sadly. Chocolate comes up frequently, but...

See, every Luna ship necessarily is new and has only a single book to rely on. Signs is limited to one pre-OotP interaction, and two or three in OotP. Harmony and Heron are the biggies that have always been there, with Chocolate having some prominence, too, so it will always be those in the most heated battles.

[rowansjet]

:p can i just say this thread is kinda running out of post though it has done very good to get up to v.42 but with all the herons vs the harmonys its the same information posted over n over again remeber its a thread for all couples not just ron,hermione and harry :pOh God yes. I have yearned for a H/Hr vs R/Hr free romance discussion for eons, but it, sadly, has not arrived. I've begged that one of these threads, they ban R/Hr and H/Hr from ever being mentioned (well, I think I have. If i haven't, I don't know what's stopped me).

[lightinthedark]

Edit: lightinthedark seems to have deleted his/her post. It's quoted in the post below this one.

Indeed, lightinthedark, but as long as Heron and Harmony are debated, every other debate will always be drowned out, sadly. Chocolate comes up frequently, but...

See, every Luna ship necessarily is new and has only a single book to rely on. Signs is limited to one pre-OotP interaction, and two or three in OotP. Harmony and Heron are the biggies that have always been there, with Chocolate having some prominence, too, so it will always be those in the most heated battles.
sorry i deleated it i thought id get angry 20 year olds shouting at me to stop inturupting there arguements lol :rotfl:

[CornedBee]

STOP INTERRUPTING OUR ARGUMENTS!!! ;) :rotfl: :lol:

Yes, I am 20 years old.

[lightinthedark]

yes i kind of noticed everyone was alot older than me but i would of though some of the younger argumentitavies would be on so anyway moving back to who love who please change the couples from hermione/ron/harry how about dumbledore n mcgonagal lol

[rowansjet]

How about N/G?

[Walli9989]

yes i kind of noticed everyone was alot older than me but i would of though some of the younger argumentitavies would be on so anyway moving back to who love who please change the couples from hermione/ron/harry how about dumbledore n mcgonagal lol
lol i think theyd make a gud couple :p

[lightinthedark]

i think they did have a little crush on each other in the 4th book but i can't see anything happening :( though they would be sweet 2gether aww! :love:

[CornedBee]

Time for another (and the last until January 2nd) biggie.

Yet again, the resolution of that tension could be that Hermione finally tells it bluntly to Ron that she doesn't actually like him in "that way" and that the only reason she bickered with him was to push him away because she didn't want to give him the wrong impression.
Indeed. I should elaborate. Of course, we want a positive resolution of the tension. ;)

CornedBee are you saying you just want harry walking in on ron and hermione kissing?nothing more?how about two to three pages discussing the kiss?
I'm content with him walking in, although it would seem strange if there was no discussion following. Not two or three pages. Just a little.
Whatever comes, comes. I'll love it all, as long as it's well-written.

Maybe she's laughing out of relief. Relief that
1. Harry doens't think she's ugly and
2. He hasn't figured out why she said that (he looked bemused)
How is that compatible with her statement that Harry's "worse than Ron"?

Because whenever the subject of Victor comes up, it turns into a fight or Hermione ignoring Ron's jabs at "Vicky".
There was one fight on the subject of Krum. There are several instances during GoF where Ron begins sulking.
But the thing we're referring to happens several months later, and Hermione could harbour hopes that Ron had changed in this regard - in fact, I believe he has (and there's some canon evidence that I won't dig up because this point is not important enough to me), just not enough yet.

It's unlikely, but possible. We can't know how Rowling interpreted the question.
Indeed, we can't know for sure. But it's, as you admit, unlikely. In other words, it is unlikely that H/Hr still floats. In other words, you're clinging to straws.

Or Ron could just get over his crush and move onto someone else, Luna for example. It's not like he's madly in love with Hermione. He was quick to completely forget about her whenever Fleur was around in GoF.
But perhaps he's madly in love by the end of OotP? His reaction to Hermione's pre-Quidditch kiss is considerably stronger than the one to Fleur's kiss.

Dear, they are not canon.

A book is said to be of canonical authority when it has a right to take a place with the other books which contain a revelation of the Divine will. Such a right does not arise from any ecclesiastical authority, but from the evidence of the inspired authorship of the book

Somehow canon is linked to a book, don't you think ?
Flying Phoenix, nice to finally find out your native language (which happens to be the same as mine).
Canon in discussion of fictional stories (not just Harry Potter) has a different meaning than the classical "canonical authority" you quoted above. This classical use has been distorted in fandom to refer to all evidence that can be used to predict further development of the fictional world, be that future books or just things you want to invent yourself.
Under this definition, which I use, Rowling's quotes are canon. Yes, some - perhaps most - of them are ambigous. So is most what's in the books.
And yes, when a direct statement in the books conflicts with a direct statement in the interviews/on the website, the books take precedence (unless the book is explicitely declared to be at fault). However, a direct statement from an interview overrules any amount of contextual and subtextual evidence from the books. It is my firm opinion that we have such a direct statement regarding the H/Hr ship, and my reasoning for it is linked in my sig.

This is one of my favorite scenes in OotP. And I think you know why. How could you possibly explain Hermione's reaction if she fancied Ron?
Exactly the same way as I'm explaining it if we assume that she fancies Ron. She didn't expect it. She's bewildered, because it goes against what she, and everyone else at Grimmauld Place, thought to be certain. Because she and everyone else expected (not necessarily wanted) Harry to be Prefect, not Ron.
Whether she fancies either of the boys is completely irrelevant to her reaction.
I just don't get why people keep bringing this up. Here's some quotes from the same scene:
"No way," said George in a hushed voice.
"There's been a mistake," siad Fred, ... "No one in their right mind would make Ron a prefect.
"We thought you were a cert!" said Fred, in a tone that suggested Harry had tricked them in some way.
"We thought Dumbledore was bound to pick you!" said George indignantly.
(Molly:) "His .. but ... Ron, you're not ...?"
Oh dear, his own mother...

What could possibly be the reason Harry doesn't want to look at Hermione?
Many things. What do you think is the reason?
My guess is that Harry must have realized that jealousy was showing on his face, and he didn't want Hermione to see it. His hearty voice is a sign of that jealousy, too.

So Harry watches Hermione in class huh
*bangs head against desk*
OK, let's get this straight. It is Umbridge's class, with nothing to do but to read a books that by all accounts is boring enough to kill. And amidst this, a lonely hand is up in the air, persistent despite Umbridge blatantly ignoring it. Over time, not only Harry, but the entire class starts watching Hermione. And you seriously call that a shippy moment? Good Lord, the entire class is in love with Hermione... :rolleyes:

He forgets being mad at her.
Hmm, care to tell me where exactly this comes from? I'd like to know why he's mad in the first place. I'd also like to know what happened when they entered Transfiguration. I believe it is Umbridge inspecting the class, but I'm not sure.

So you see, the mere fact that Hermione says Voldemort, calms Harry.
Yes. But is it that Hermione said Voldemort or that Hermione said Voldemort? In other words, would he have calmed down if Ron had said Voldemort?
OK, this is a really ambigous one.
Setting: Hermione and Ron have just presented the idea of the DA to Harry. He argues that he doesn't really know what he did and all that stuff, but they just smirk, then laugh, and he gets really, really angry, ending with him shouting at them. His tirade lets his feelings get out. His yells finally bring home to Ron and Hermione that they shouldn't have laughed, that meeting Voldemort is a traumatic experience. (Though Ron wouldn't put it that way ;))
The scene goes on:
"We weren't saying anything like that, mate," said Ron, looking aghast. "We weren't having a go at Diggory, we didn't - you've got the wrong end of the -"
He looked helplessly at Hermione, whose face was stricken.
"Harry," she said timidly, "don't you see? This ... this is exactly why we need you ... we need to know what it's r-really like ... facing him ... facing V-Voldemort."
Wake up, R&Hr! We're talking about live and death here, and you're up against Death Eaters, guys who had years of training in the Dark Arts and who won't hesitate to kill you, torture you, kill those near you to hurt you. It's not a game!
Hermione not saying "You-Know-You", but instead using "Voldemort", is an acknowledgement of the reality of this threat. It's such a simple way of acknowledging it, yet so much stronger than long explanations of how they understand. It's a powerful scene. And it's this acknowledgement that calms Harry. Ron tried and failed to put it into words. Hermione managed. This says a lot about the capabilities of the two to express themselves, but it says nothing about who Harry likes better.

The alternative interpretation stresses the Hermione part. What could be the actual reason for Harry's calming be then?
"Wow, the girl I fancy is so brave, she just said Voldemort's name. I mean, just a moment ago she's been laughing at my terrible experiences, but, wow!"
Nah, somehow I don't see it ;)

And what do you know, Harry comes out.
I would stress Hermione's words, "I want to talk to you." The discussion that later follows shows that nobody else said that to him. If they had - and I think they would have eventually, had Hermione not done it first - Harry could have come out as well.

Whipped.
Eh? Harry agreed to meeting his 100% platonic friend. If you are suggesting she's not platonic, and Harry is in the least bit aware of this, then Cho is absolutely right in her accusations.

Not compatible. Ha.
What has the basic human instinct of grouping together in the face of danger to do with romantic compatibility in a long-term relationship?

Great, he's moved on. Time for him to notice someone else, Hermione maybe?
Or Ginny? Or Lavender Brown? The Giant Squid?

And what is his type? Cho? The only reason Harry "broke up" with Cho is because she's jealous of Hermione, but I'm pretty sure he won't have that problem with Hermione.
That's the main reason their dates were disasters, but they just weren't compatible. Cho sought comfort, perhaps a Cedric-replacement. Harry wasn't in the position to comfort anyone in OotP.

Let's see...Cho is:

1.pretty
2.smart
3.seeker
4.popular
5.loyal to her friends

1. So is Hermione
After hours of preparation, she's "a pretty girl" amidst a girl that's "very pretty indeed", one that looked "stunning", and one or two other very flattering descriptions I can't quote because I don't have GoF here. And Cho was "extremely pretty" in her Quidditch gear.

2. So is Hermione
3. Quidditch wasn't enough to base a relationship on with Cho and it won't be enough with Ginny. Besides, he has Ron for Quidditch talk.
4. Not important for Harry. In fact, he hates it.
5. So is Hermione. And who is her friend? Harry. Perfect.
Personality is not based on these traits alone. That's like characterizing food only by it being sweet, salty, hot, bitter and sour.

Can anyone give me a rational explanation about the prefect's badge instance where harry doesn't mind looking directly at ron but for some reason finds that he doesn't want to look at hermione.Also why does he talk to ron normally whereas he talks to hermione in a horrible hearty voice that isn't his own?
My opinion is that it took a while for Harry to grasp what had just happened. By that time, Ron is gone.

She needs to add a bit of humour and fun to her life to become the right girl for harry.
But where would she find humour and fun? They're in a war, humour and fun will be scarce.
On the other hand, Hermione could date Ron, who has humour enough for two.

However I also believe that whatever happens she will also see to it that most of the shippers are kept happy.
I completely disagree with this. The plot of Harry Potter is set. While details change or side characters might even completely disappear, the big events (and I consider the ships big events, even though they aren't the main focus of the books) will stay. And the plot was set since before she started on PS, when nobody knew her name. So, no, I don't think she will "see to it that most of the shippers are kept happy," except in that most people here have said that they'll be happy with everything JKR writes as long as it's good.

Jo would be "miffed" if somebody could guess one romentic-related "thing" which is "the heart of the story" when Jo had "sweated blood to create all my red herrings and lay all my clues.... "
Actually, she'd be "pretty miffed". Makes you wonder. In the next question, she calls Harry's behaviour in OotP "a little bit miffed". If Harry was a little bit miffed in OotP, then what would Rowling consider "pretty miffed"? :lol:

Seriously, though, you make a good point on the romantic-related issue here. I have to concede that, because I used identical technique in the past. Yes. However, the difference is that the result of using this technique here screems "illogical" at me. I just can't see anything romantic-related at the heart of Harry Potter. And the "..." in there is a loose coupling that could indeed mean a change of context.

Because Harry hasn't put in any effort in getting to know Ron's little sister better.
Harry has never put effort into getting to know anyone better. It was Ron who sat down in Harry's compartment and started to speak. Harry then was comfortable with simply being friends with Ron, until a troll threw Hermione into the friendship. Since then, Harry has not once made a move to get to know anyone better. Even Cho came after Harry.

It is obvious to me.
It is obvious to a minority (Harmonians), which means it's not obvious to the masses.

The opposite of 'ugly' is 'beautiful'. So if Hermione is not ugly, she's beautiful.
And the opposite of "sopping wet" is "completely dry", so when someone is "not completely dry", does that mean he's automatically "sopping wet"? Negative use of one extreme is not the same as positive use of the other extreme.
In plain words: just because Hermione's not ugly doesn't mean she's beautiful. The world isn't black and white.

And Harry has had his share of hissing, nagging and bulldozing as well at the Dursleys.
Which is exactly why it's not a good trait for Hermione to have if she is to be in a romantic relationship with Harry. Or do you think that Harry has any positive associations with the Dursleys?

The "thing" is not a pairing but something that explains the pairing:
That sounds like, "In 7th year, Harry find out he's Hermione's soulmate and through their tru wuv they vanquish Voldemort together."
Not going there.

Why can't it be more then that?
Because the burden of proof lies on those who claim a specific ship.

[Walli9989]

How about N/G?
ooooo yay lets talk about them! whos against them and whos for them?

yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!! i didnt even notice im finally a second year!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lightinthedark]

corned beef :wow: that was long indeed :wow: you must be a fast typer to do that within 2 miniutes

ooooo yay lets talk about them! whos against them and whos for them?

yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!! i didnt even notice im finally a second year!!!!!!!!!!!!
well done 4 becomin a 2nd year :tu:
okay lets talk about n/g

[Walli9989]

:wow: that was long indeed :wow: you must be a fast typer to do that within 2 miniutes
lol ya i was typing like mad yesturday cause i was already sick of being a first year:D

ok so whos for N/G? i am!!!!

[daz]

If Hermione likes Ron then why did she put him down about the homework help. After the Percy letter. He said something like your a life saver and something else she put him down and said well il know your back to normal again. She dislikes Ron xmas gift. When she thinks Harry is prefect she cant come up with 1 thing Ron has ever done. I mean she really seems into Ron. :rotfl:

[CornedBee]

And in the middle of the poor, fledgling, attempted N/G discussion I'm posting my huge HvsH post. :)

You know, just saying, "let's talk about them" or "I think they're cute" isn't going to start a debate. You could try posting canon evidence as to why you think they'll happen. Of course, even then a debate is unlikely to start for real, because very few people are emotionally invested enough in them to waste their time on an online board discussion possible relationships of fictional characters.

If Hermione likes Ron then why did she put him down about the homework help.
Because Ron makes a promise she knows/believes he can't/won't keep. But, reading OotP carefully, Ron is indeed a somewhat more polite after that.

She dislikes Ron xmas gift.
She might like the idea of perfume, but dislike this particular perfume. She might like the general idea that Ron has, but dislike perfume.

When she thinks Harry is prefect she cant come up with 1 thing Ron has ever done.
Or simply nothing she would say in front of the twins?
But yes, Ron doesn't seem to have done that much, does he? But that's just going back to the old "Ron's not good enough for Hermione" argument.

[Walli9989]

so who r we talkin about? N/G or Hr/R? well im all for both of them!! i think Hermione and Ron like each other mostly because oppisites attract, but they didnt say nething cause they thought Harry would get mad, why he would get mad, i dont no, or maybe it was because Harry was so moody and angry all the time, anyhoo, i had some good theories on this ship but i cant think of anything right now, any1 else have any other theories?

[daz]

But yes, Ron doesn't seem to have done that much, does he? But that's just going back to the old "Ron's not good enough for Hermione" argument.


You said it not me.

[Walli9989]

actually i wanted to hear some theories on N/G or H/L so any1 want to start us off? to tell u the truth Hr/R discussions r getting kinda old

i really wanted Neville and Ginny to get together but i havent found any proof of them actually liking each other and them going together to the ball but it doesnt really count considering Ginny wanted to go with Harry

[daz]

Well H/HR & R/HR are the main ships.

[Walli9989]

Well H/HR & R/HR are the main ships.
ya but rowensjet and lightinthedark mentioned N/G, but watev it doesnt matter what we talk about

[Deevo]

And why don't they know each other well? Because Harry hasn't put in any effort in getting to know Ron's little sister better.
Yet. :)
Exactly.

The opposite of 'ugly' is 'beautiful'. So if Hermione is not ugly, she's beautiful.
Matter of opinion. Harry may see her as simply "Hermione". No, he doesn't think she's "ugly", but maybe he doesn't necessarily think she's "beautiful", either. She's just his good friend...why does it have to be more than that?
And does anyone really see their best friend(s) as ugly?

Re Ginny:
And then she disappeared for two whole books...was barely even mentioned. Until Book 5.

Why do you suppose Rowling did that? Why bother to write Ginny back in at all? (Not to mention giving her such drastic development and making her so much more important.)

Oh yeah. Probably a red-herring, right? :lol:
Maybe, maybe not though I'm personally inclined to think not given that, to me at least, they are so well matched to each other. Still, and I'm going to use my standard disclaimer here, this is Jo's story not mine and I have great faith she won't let the readers down. Regardless of the outcome of this issue I'm sure the story will work out well.


Why should she not be mentioned? Fred and George, Percy,...have all been developed. They are Ron's (Harry's best friend) relatives, fellow Gryffindors. Neville and Luna have also been put into the spotlight, even more so then Ginny I think.
Matter of opinion. However, I've seen subtle H/G clues since book one. My opinion. :)
The clues have been their very subtley but to be frank I haven't payed them that much attention till Ginny's rise to prominence in OOTP where much of it came together. As I've said in the past my interest in the series isn't primarily on the teen romance aspect so it's not an area I've followed that closely. It is though an interesting area for speculation and discussion and to that end I find this whole excercise quite a lot of fun.

There is one other point I'd like to raise, something that hasn't been commented on much. Is book seven really going to sink any of the respective ships? Short of a character death and presuming book seven will see the final vanquishing of Voldemort these kids are going to have their adult lives before them. Just because a couple are dating at seventeen doesn't necessarily mean they'll still be a couple at seventy. Of course Jo could always write a nice little epilogue for book seven with Grandpa Ron telling his bushy red haired granddaughter about the great wizarding war and how "your grandmother and I" fought back to back with with your cousin's the Potters famous grandfather Harry. :p

[The Garbage Man]

Here's a few arguments to throw into the mix: (Sorry I don't have the direct quotes from the book. I'm going off of memory here as I do not have book 5 on me. Everyone here has read book 5 enough to know what I'm saying, anyway, so it would probably be redundant)

-Hermione is not interested enough in Ron to stay awake for the celebrations after Ron wins a Quidditch match. A sort of side note that comes with this is that Hermione loses interest in Quidditch once Harry is banned; calling it 'just a game' and not even feigning interest for Ron's keeping abilities. She even assumes that he was bad at it, as when Ron and Harry come back from practice, she automatically jumps to the conclusion that it was 'that bad'. Not something you do when you want to go out with a guy.

-Hermione lets out a shriek 'Just like Mrs. Weasley's' when she thinks Harry got the prefect badge, but becomes flustered when she discovered Ron received it. She should've backed him up in some way in this scene, or have even come up with a reason why he should've received one, but she couldn't. Really, if she was interested in Ron, she could've at least recovered better than she did. This is arguable, I know, but this is my interpretation. I really don't see how it can be in any way Hr===>R though.

-Hermione leaves the Quidditch finals to go with Hagrid and Harry into the Forbidden Forest even though she didn't have to. She didn't show any reluctance to leave at all.

-When Harry talks to Cho outside Hogwarts and Ron starts badgering Cho about the Tornado badge (haha), Hermione tells Ron that he should've let Harry and Cho talk together alone; and that he should've walked away. Why didn't Hermione leave in that case? Doesn't make sense, really. Hermione's support of H/C just seemed to be forced because Hermione never gave advice until after the accident occured...which is pretty much useless. It is my belief she only pretended to be okay with it because she remembered how Ron completely ruined her date with Krum at the Yule ball by his jealousy, and she didn't want to do that to Harry.

-The perfume. She was only barely tactful when she commented on Ron's gift. ('Unusual' is not neutral or complementary in any sense. Saying the gift was 'thoughtful' would be more appropriate) She could've done a tone of things in that scene that would draw Ron closer to her; that is, if she wanted him to be. Even, say, wearing it in that scene even if it was hideous. Just the fact that she wore it would've been enough to give Ron the go-ahead. On another note, Hermione isn't exactly a 'perfume' type of girl. She definitely isn't vain, and we never hear of her wearing makeup or doing her hair or wearing perfume except on special occasions. (Yule ball) Though the story is from Harry's POV, it is safe to assume that she isn't 'into' stereotypical girl items. Books are more her thing. Ron's gift of perfume just shows that he doesn't understand Hermione.

-Hermione invited Harry to knit with her in the common room, which, of course, he refused. Harry's response isn't as important as the invitation itself, which Hermione wanted to be alone with him for some time. Since he refused, I can't elaborate too much on this.

-More indirectly: Luna. As in multiple scenes in the book, Luna has been described as to have been humming 'Weasley is out king' under her breath at random times (Rita Skeeter interview), laughing uproariously to the dumbest of Ron's jokes, gazing dreamily at Ron, etc. From this we can infer she likes Ron...how much so is up to you...but we can assume that its more than she likes Harry. Why would JKR put this in her books if this wasn't important for 6 and 7? Is it a waste of print? I doubt it. Ron thinks she's wierd, granted, but he doesn't dislike her...as far as we know. It's indirect but I wanted to mention it.

-Harry seems to have subconscious concern for Hermione's physical welfare. (Catches her from falling in the Forbidden Forest, tried to protect her from the Centaurs later on, she clutches his arm when Grawp gets slightly out of control, and, of course, Harry instinctively seizes her robes and pulls her forward in the DOM.) Like everything, this is debatable, but why is it in the books if it's irrelevant? It's too subtle to be a red herring. That is the ultimate question.

-Hermione says Ron has 'the emotional range of a teaspoon', and other remarks when Harry tells them about the kiss with Cho. What she was irritated by is questionable. (Ron's immaturity or the fact that Harry kissed Cho) But the fact remains that she was impatient, annoyed, and overall un-Hermione. She also knows an awful lot about Cho, for being one who doesn't take part in gossip.

-I'll probably add to this later. This is why I think H/Hr is going to happen, and notice I didn't use interview quotes for one of my points.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Canon in discussion of fictional stories (not just Harry Potter) has a different meaning than the classical "canonical authority" you quoted above. This classical use has been distorted in fandom to refer to all evidence that can be used to predict further development of the fictional world, be that future books or just things you want to invent yourself.

Any reference for this? I'd like to read it then. If you are refering to FAP: canon - Facts that have been told to us in the books and in interviews with J.K. Rowling. However, you have to take those with a grain of salt, as she has changed her mind before; in an online chat she once said that she didn't expect to bring Gilderoy Lockhart back, but then she did.

I do disagree because of the obvious reason they state. Like Lockhart wouldn't come back yet he did. (Though I did claim it as wrong interpretation of her interviews).

People on the internet want to know if Gilderoy Lockhart is going to come back.
JKR: Gilderoy Lockhart, bless him, is currently residing in St. Mungo’s Hospital for Magical Maladies and Injuries and his memory is still gone. So at the moment, he’s in no fit state to go anywhere. Which I think serves him right.

As another note why interviews are not canon ad example the new site of TLC called Madam Scoops Index... is just much at fault as QQQ both have wrong transcripts, both have wrong recaped interviews. I give you an example:
Harry & Hermione are platonic friends, "but I won't answer for anyone else, nudge, nudge, wink, wink."

Now the wrong one:
On whether Harry and his friend Hermione will have a date when they get older: "No, but I won't answer for anyone else - nudge, nudge, wink, wink.

Now which one should we believe? Nearly all interviews which one can found are not officials transcripts. If I did judge on this I should only believe that interview I have black on white at home.
You see now that by an unfinished story that popular like HP only the actuall books can be canon? And to me only they are canon because I met enough authors who talked after they finished their books as if this characters did act on their own, that this fictional characters did decide to turn out like they did. You seriously think I take such an interview above a story which I can read and interpret apart from the strangeness of an authors mind?
Though I can actually understand this sentiment a lot writers got, since in my case it wasn't different. As wtiter you identify way different with your characters as any reader ever could.

[rowansjet]

Well, first off, let's go into why we support H/L and N/G. That'll get the ball rolling.

I was actually a firm believer in Chocolate for a while reading OotP. I saw all the scenes like the chocolate in the library, and telling Harry off for forgetting her possesion. I also noticed Luna, but didn't think much of her romantically, as she seemed interested in Ron. Then I read the H/L talk at the end of the book and i thought "wow, Luna is definately gonna become important to Harry". However, it wasn't until much later that I seriously started considering Luna as a partner for Harry. I can't remember much about how I changed my mind but i was definately one of the few i could see at the time on this thread, even if they're were others before.

Anyway, i started looking at all the things that made Luna stand out as a LI for Harry. Well, first off there was that talk at the end of OotP. It was very open and emotional. And it was obviously important that it be Luna that have this conversation. She was a new character really, why not have him talk with Sirius with Ginny or Hermione. Then there was Luna herself. She was a very unusual character. A relationship with this girl and the main character would be truly interesting to read, because it's kind of rare and, well unusual in stories i've ever read.

I also thought about why she hadn't been introduced in this book. And it then made sense romantically why she would come in this book with regards to Harry/Cho. Cho is pretty, normal, popular, good at sport. And in the book where Harry gets together with this girl and realises that there's more to love than all these things Cho is described as, we get Luna. She's unpopular(heck, even Ginny called her Loony Lovegood, despite a bit of friendship), seen as just plain weird by nearly everyone she comes across (including
Harry), she has features that aren't immeadiately attractive to Harry ("straggly, waist-length, dirty blonde hair, very pale eyebrows and protuberant eyes that gave her a permanently surprised look."). Basically, as well as being a polar opposite to Hermione, she's completely different from Cho as well.

Then we come to the end of the book, and Harry's had enough of her. She's not the perfect girl he'd pictured, and he finds other attributes completely annoying. And then we have Luna. Despite all her problems he's found about her, he still has that deep and frank conversation with her at the end, jumps to her defence, in fact feels really guilty for thinking of her as Loony Lovegood too.

And then there was the fact that, seeing as i was a believer in the DoM six theory, I didn't really like N/L all that much. It just seemed to me that I was putting them together so that everything would fit nicely. There was nothing going on there, and even if there was a chance of them happening, it just felt like I was cheapening them by putting the 'outcasts' together. And that's when i came to the conclusion of H/L and N/G. These couples really balanced each other out.

For N/G, it was all the little scenes in OotP, like Ginny and Neville defending each other, plus their really bad date for the ball, made them seem quite cute as a couple.

Also, I found it funny that originally, none of the couples i supported wanted much to do with each other romantically wise, if even friendship wise.

[sergorat]

Very good post, FlyingPhoenix!!!

[Firebolt2004]

Here's a few arguments to throw into the mix: (Sorry I don't have the direct quotes from the book. I'm going off of memory here as I do not have book 5 on me. Everyone here has read book 5 enough to know what I'm saying, anyway, so it would probably be redundant)

-Hermione is not interested enough in Ron to stay awake for the celebrations after Ron wins a Quidditch match. A sort of side note that comes with this is that Hermione loses interest in Quidditch once Harry is banned; calling it 'just a game' and not even feigning interest for Ron's keeping abilities. She even assumes that he was bad at it, as when Ron and Harry come back from practice, she automatically jumps to the conclusion that it was 'that bad'. Not something you do when you want to go out with a guy.

-Hermione lets out a shriek 'Just like Mrs. Weasley's' when she thinks Harry got the prefect badge, but becomes flustered when she discovered Ron received it. She should've backed him up in some way in this scene, or have even come up with a reason why he should've received one, but she couldn't. Really, if she was interested in Ron, she could've at least recovered better than she did. This is arguable, I know, but this is my interpretation. I really don't see how it can be in any way Hr===>R though.

-Hermione leaves the Quidditch finals to go with Hagrid and Harry into the Forbidden Forest even though she didn't have to. She didn't show any reluctance to leave at all.

-When Harry talks to Cho outside Hogwarts and Ron starts badgering Cho about the Tornado badge (haha), Hermione tells Ron that he should've let Harry and Cho talk together alone; and that he should've walked away. Why didn't Hermione leave in that case? Doesn't make sense, really. Hermione's support of H/C just seemed to be forced because Hermione never gave advice until after the accident occured...which is pretty much useless. It is my belief she only pretended to be okay with it because she remembered how Ron completely ruined her date with Krum at the Yule ball by his jealousy, and she didn't want to do that to Harry.

-The perfume. She was only barely tactful when she commented on Ron's gift. ('Unusual' is not neutral or complementary in any sense. Saying the gift was 'thoughtful' would be more appropriate) She could've done a tone of things in that scene that would draw Ron closer to her; that is, if she wanted him to be. Even, say, wearing it in that scene even if it was hideous. Just the fact that she wore it would've been enough to give Ron the go-ahead. On another note, Hermione isn't exactly a 'perfume' type of girl. She definitely isn't vain, and we never hear of her wearing makeup or doing her hair or wearing perfume except on special occasions. (Yule ball) Though the story is from Harry's POV, it is safe to assume that she isn't 'into' stereotypical girl items. Books are more her thing. Ron's gift of perfume just shows that he doesn't understand Hermione.

-Hermione invited Harry to knit with her in the common room, which, of course, he refused. Harry's response isn't as important as the invitation itself, which Hermione wanted to be alone with him for some time. Since he refused, I can't elaborate too much on this.

-More indirectly: Luna. As in multiple scenes in the book, Luna has been described as to have been humming 'Weasley is out king' under her breath at random times (Rita Skeeter interview), laughing uproariously to the dumbest of Ron's jokes, gazing dreamily at Ron, etc. From this we can infer she likes Ron...how much so is up to you...but we can assume that its more than she likes Harry. Why would JKR put this in her books if this wasn't important for 6 and 7? Is it a waste of print? I doubt it. Ron thinks she's wierd, granted, but he doesn't dislike her...as far as we know. It's indirect but I wanted to mention it.

-Harry seems to have subconscious concern for Hermione's physical welfare. (Catches her from falling in the Forbidden Forest, tried to protect her from the Centaurs later on, she clutches his arm when Grawp gets slightly out of control, and, of course, Harry instinctively seizes her robes and pulls her forward in the DOM.) Like everything, this is debatable, but why is it in the books if it's irrelevant? It's too subtle to be a red herring. That is the ultimate question.

-Hermione says Ron has 'the emotional range of a teaspoon', and other remarks when Harry tells them about the kiss with Cho. What she was irritated by is questionable. (Ron's immaturity or the fact that Harry kissed Cho) But the fact remains that she was impatient, annoyed, and overall un-Hermione. She also knows an awful lot about Cho, for being one who doesn't take part in gossip.

-I'll probably add to this later. This is why I think H/Hr is going to happen, and notice I didn't use interview quotes for one of my points.


Your statements can be interpreted as Hermione not having an interest in Ron but I fail to see where it proves a H/Hr relationship. If you're talking about Harry being protective of Hermione when they are in perilous situations, you don't have to be in love with someone to protect them from grave danger, especially if that someone is one of your best friends. Harry has a reputation for having a "people saving thing".

[sergorat]

Here's a few arguments to throw into the mix: (Sorry I don't have the direct quotes from the book. I'm going off of memory here as I do not have book 5 on me. Everyone here has read book 5 enough to know what I'm saying, anyway, so it would probably be redundant)

-Hermione is not interested enough in Ron to stay awake for the celebrations after Ron wins a Quidditch match. A sort of side note that comes with this is that Hermione loses interest in Quidditch once Harry is banned; calling it 'just a game' and not even feigning interest for Ron's keeping abilities. She even assumes that he was bad at it, as when Ron and Harry come back from practice, she automatically jumps to the conclusion that it was 'that bad'. Not something you do when you want to go out with a guy.

-Hermione lets out a shriek 'Just like Mrs. Weasley's' when she thinks Harry got the prefect badge, but becomes flustered when she discovered Ron received it. She should've backed him up in some way in this scene, or have even come up with a reason why he should've received one, but she couldn't. Really, if she was interested in Ron, she could've at least recovered better than she did. This is arguable, I know, but this is my interpretation. I really don't see how it can be in any way Hr===>R though.

-Hermione leaves the Quidditch finals to go with Hagrid and Harry into the Forbidden Forest even though she didn't have to. She didn't show any reluctance to leave at all.

-When Harry talks to Cho outside Hogwarts and Ron starts badgering Cho about the Tornado badge (haha), Hermione tells Ron that he should've let Harry and Cho talk together alone; and that he should've walked away. Why didn't Hermione leave in that case? Doesn't make sense, really. Hermione's support of H/C just seemed to be forced because Hermione never gave advice until after the accident occured...which is pretty much useless. It is my belief she only pretended to be okay with it because she remembered how Ron completely ruined her date with Krum at the Yule ball by his jealousy, and she didn't want to do that to Harry.

-The perfume. She was only barely tactful when she commented on Ron's gift. ('Unusual' is not neutral or complementary in any sense. Saying the gift was 'thoughtful' would be more appropriate) She could've done a tone of things in that scene that would draw Ron closer to her; that is, if she wanted him to be. Even, say, wearing it in that scene even if it was hideous. Just the fact that she wore it would've been enough to give Ron the go-ahead. On another note, Hermione isn't exactly a 'perfume' type of girl. She definitely isn't vain, and we never hear of her wearing makeup or doing her hair or wearing perfume except on special occasions. (Yule ball) Though the story is from Harry's POV, it is safe to assume that she isn't 'into' stereotypical girl items. Books are more her thing. Ron's gift of perfume just shows that he doesn't understand Hermione.

-Hermione invited Harry to knit with her in the common room, which, of course, he refused. Harry's response isn't as important as the invitation itself, which Hermione wanted to be alone with him for some time. Since he refused, I can't elaborate too much on this.

-More indirectly: Luna. As in multiple scenes in the book, Luna has been described as to have been humming 'Weasley is out king' under her breath at random times (Rita Skeeter interview), laughing uproariously to the dumbest of Ron's jokes, gazing dreamily at Ron, etc. From this we can infer she likes Ron...how much so is up to you...but we can assume that its more than she likes Harry. Why would JKR put this in her books if this wasn't important for 6 and 7? Is it a waste of print? I doubt it. Ron thinks she's wierd, granted, but he doesn't dislike her...as far as we know. It's indirect but I wanted to mention it.

-Harry seems to have subconscious concern for Hermione's physical welfare. (Catches her from falling in the Forbidden Forest, tried to protect her from the Centaurs later on, she clutches his arm when Grawp gets slightly out of control, and, of course, Harry instinctively seizes her robes and pulls her forward in the DOM.) Like everything, this is debatable, but why is it in the books if it's irrelevant? It's too subtle to be a red herring. That is the ultimate question.

-Hermione says Ron has 'the emotional range of a teaspoon', and other remarks when Harry tells them about the kiss with Cho. What she was irritated by is questionable. (Ron's immaturity or the fact that Harry kissed Cho) But the fact remains that she was impatient, annoyed, and overall un-Hermione. She also knows an awful lot about Cho, for being one who doesn't take part in gossip.

-I'll probably add to this later. This is why I think H/Hr is going to happen, and notice I didn't use interview quotes for one of my points.
One of the best posts ever. :clap: I totally agree!! Those points are exactly my opinion, I got durind reading reading.

[The Garbage Man]

Your statements can be interpreted as Hermione not having an interest in Ron but I fail to see where it proves a H/Hr relationship. If you're talking about Harry being protective of Hermione when they are in perilous situations, you don't have to be in love with someone to protect them from grave danger, especially if that someone is one of your best friends. Harry has a reputation for having a "people saving thing".

It doesn't point to an H/Hr relationship; as, if anything, my excerpts do not point towards a conscious interest in Hermione on Harry's part. (He turned her down when she asked him to knit, for example) I hardly call catching Hermione when she trips (Forbidden forest, chapter called 'Grawp') a perilious situation. I was giving examples of the solid stuff, the excerpts where you have to look no further than the plain text. Some of those excerpts foreshadow a future H/Hr ship. If they didn't, why were they written the way they were? I believe it determined that Hr has an interest in Harry, but Harry doesn't have a conscious interest in Hr...yet. That is all I'm saying with that.

I am not even going to attempt to delve into the depths of symbolism. I will be writing about it for months...

[sergorat]

But how Luna acts in front of Ron and his jokes are quite clear, I think. She really looks at him as if he is the king and laughs about his jokes.

[stic]

CornedBee wrote about the badge-scene:Exactly the same way as I'm explaining it if we assume that she fancies Ron. She didn't expect it. She's bewildered, because it goes against what she, and everyone else at Grimmauld Place, thought to be certain. Because she and everyone else expected (not necessarily wanted) Harry to be Prefect, not Ron.
Whether she fancies either of the boys is completely irrelevant to her reaction.Assuming she fancies Ron I'd expect a grin on her face after a few moments of bewilderment. What we saw was just bewilderment and a fallen face. :tu:
Assuming she fancies Ron and expected Harry to become Prefect, I'd expected from her to tone down her excitement for herself and Harry in order to not hurt the feelings of Ron for having been beaten once more in something that matters to him (Mirror of Erised) :tu:
What happened in canon: She was ecstatic for herself and Harry and had completely forgotten about how bad that must have felt for Ron. Furthermore Ron gets also miffed when Hermione implies that there must have happened a mistake. ("But...arey you sure...I mean..")
Hermione not saying "You-Know-You", but instead using "Voldemort", is an acknowledgement of the reality of this threat. (...) It's a powerful scene. (...)
The alternative interpretation stresses the Hermione part. What could be the actual reason for Harry's calming be then?
"Wow, the girl I fancy is so brave, she just said Voldemort's name. I mean, just a moment ago she's been laughing at my terrible experiences, but, wow!"
Hermione understands that Harry was right with being angry at their behaviour, Ron does not. Hermione creates a situation where Harry's talents can be channeled effectively for the benefit of many. The DA is a H/Hr creation.

I consider all this to be positive for an upcoming H/Hr ship. Chocolaters argue with excitement that Ginny in the library scene understands Harry and calms Harry. I concede you consider that H/G argument to be DoxyDroppings, too. :td:

FlyingPhoenix, your new sig ups the ante! :tu:

[HeRmIoNe_14]

oh wee first to post. Since I'm first I'd just like to say. Draco/Hermione forever.

Just the same for me