Who Will fall in love with whom? v.42

[EmilyRose]

But that connection is so thin that it is nearly, if not completely, nonexistant. We're stretching too far for a connection there, and in the wrong directions. If there is to be a connection made between Luna and Ron, it is a more solid one based in the book rather than in very, very loose word games. As I said earlier--Luna/Moon seems to refer most directly to Luna's personality.

Luna is the Roman name for the goddess known in Greek mythology as Selene, and sister to Helios. Luna and Helios were later supplanted by Atemis/Diana and Apollo, also siblings. They were not king and queen of the gods, either set. The stretch is too far, there.

[linzee4life]

No one forced her to be nice? She is his friend; to make a blatant insult would be way out of character for her. 'Unusual' is borderline outright dislike. There were loads of things she could've said that would be much more complementary and not lying. ("That was a very thoughtful gift, Ron, and I appreciate it") Using a one-word remark to describe his gift is *almost* tactless. Especially when she knew (And yes, she would know. Hermione, if anything, is an expert on feelings and observant of those around her) his intentions for giving such a gift.

And regardless, Ron's gift was still completely unsuited for her. It brings up the question: "Who is the Hermione that Ron knows?"


Yes, she is his friend. She chooses to be his friend. She chooses to be nice. She chooses not to hurt his feelings. Hermione does have the capacity to be mean, we have seen that with her Eloise Midgen comment. Sure, she could have said other things, you can always say something else. What I don't see is why should she? Hermione used the words that would most suit Ron. She is completely telling the truth with no exaggerations. Ron accepted them with no visible signs of remorse or heartache. Hermione didn't use a one word response. She used once adjective. If she were to say, "That was a very thoughtful gift Ron." it would still be consisting of one adjective. As for Ron's thinking, Ron is just realizing that Hermione is a girl and she likes girly things. She likes to do girly things and be friends with girls. Ron is trying to buy Hermione something that would suit her. He probably thought to himself, "What would a girl like?" Perfume is a girly thing. Hermione is a girl and that it what Ron is trying to do. He wants to show Hermione that he sees her as a girl, not just Hermione.

[The Garbage Man]

Yeah but not always, like the remus lupin twin thing

Remus shared a name with Rome's founder; the similarities ended there. Luna is, well, extraordinarily strange, eccentric, and her physical description (Protuberant eyes) is moon imagery. The moon is associated with emotion, instinct; not logic. And, as she believes in things that no one else does, this follows very closely with the moon symbolism.

----Alright, I"m out to lunch.

[Alfonzo]

As Harry's dreams are nearly always relevant to the storyline in some way, this is the most clear interpretation. Unless you're implying that JKR wrote nearly a page of text for no reason at all, by all means offer your own.
It was quite entertaining actually - not every dream has underlying meaning. I most certainly didn't read anything into it. This dream says that Umbridge had his broom, i.e his love - that doesn't make sense! Most of my random dreams don't have any significance whatsoever, and I could list them quite happily :).

[Tzigone]

Well, in Harry's earlier dream Draco turned into Snape. Do you think that means Draco might be redeemed in the same fashion as Snape? Or something like that?

[dark_kneazle]

This dream was are very misserable one which indicate how bad Harry would take R/Hr, nice way to show us this. JKR got her own ways there.

The dream was miserable for a completly different reason. It was reflexing the way Harry was feeling at that moment in time the feelings were maybe linked to the prefect system not to the relationship.

[EmilyRose]

Much larger connection with Remus. Remus and Romulus were raised by wolves. Hence the name. JKR discounted the theory that his name had any other implications--trust me, I was one of the people giving the theory that Remus would be killed by his "brother" Wormtail, as his namesake was killed by his own brother Romulus. The myth-name stretch is too much. I'd be glad to listen to Red Moon theories, but I would like something a bit more solid than an implausible myth connection.

[FredFancier]

Yes, at the beginning he believed it to be a waste of time.
He was then undeniably glad to be proven wrong when Hogwarts' employment of Dobby showed him that some elves do enjoy payments and clothes and freedom and individuality.
Harry then moved on to constructively criticising Hermiones "Free all elves" with "Well, maybe not all elves" when he said that hopefully the other elves wouldn't look too closely at Winky.
Throughout OotP Ron never ceased to overtly belittle and condescend Hermione personally for what she was doing.
Er...the only elf that wanted freedom- is already free. And the other elves started ignoring Dobby and backing away from him as though he were the Ebola virus. They don't want freedom. Ron recognizes this and if I remember cprrectly from rereading OotP the other night, Harry privately agreed (I'll look for the passage)
What do yoy mean with "Maybe not all elves"? :huh:
Some elves want to be free, and other thinking creatures deserve more rights so why would it be so smart of Ron to condescend and disencourage Hermione entirely from her efforts??
the elves at hogwarts don't.
Again when Hermione brought up Dobby being free and such the elves seemed to back away from Dobby and turned angry. Ron is being realistic when saying that the elves don't want to be free. Winky cries her eyes out and is disgraced to be free. The other elves suddenly lose interest and get upset when Dobby talks about the wonders of being free. Ron knows it isn't working, and the dissapointment from Hermione would probably be less if she just realized it now rather then later.


He doesn't trust Ginny enough. Ron fears Ginny might get seduced or tricked by the guys that want to date her. That's why he dislikes Ginny's boyfriends. Ron doesn't get Pa-Ron-oia with the thought of H/G because he trusts Harry, not his sister.
Equally, Ron didn't trust Hermione at the JuleBall, he believed she got herself duped by Krum.
canon please?
there isn't anything saying that Ron doesn't trust his sister,
and where does it say that Ron thinks Hermione got herself 'duped
by Krum? For one thing- all they did was dance and right after the ball Hermione was alredy arguing with Ron. When and How did Krum get a chance to trick her?
Simple answer really- he didnt.
and again Ron idolized Krum, surely he would think that Viktor would be a good enough date for Hermione -- unless of course Ron likes hermione. Because then he wouldnt want Hermione dating Viktor.

[Firebolt2004]

As Harry's dreams are nearly always relevant to the storyline in some way, this is the most clear interpretation. Unless you're implying that JKR wrote nearly a page of text for no reason at all, by all means offer your own.

So whats your explanation for the other dream that Harry has which takes place in the DA room too, about Neville and Prof Sprout dancing and Prof McGonagal playing the bagpipes. Does it have H/Hr connotations too since the DA room is a symbolism for Hermione role in Harry's life.

[IceKat55]

This dream was are very misserable one which indicate how bad Harry would take R/Hr, nice way to show us this. JKR got her own ways there.
Or, more likely, it's yet another example to show how, subconsciously, Harry already sees Ron and Hermione as R/Hr (and not only by 'getting the point' at the end of the Yule Brawl), and he sees Hermione as 'one of the Weasleys'. A member of his surrogate family.

From GoF: The Quidditch World Cup
The stairs into the stadium were carpeted in rich purple. They clambered upward with the rest of the crowd, which slowly filtered away through doors into the stands to their left and right. Mr. Weasley's party kept climbing, and at last they reached the top of the staircase and found themselves in a small box, set at the highest point of the stadium and situated exactly halfway between the golden goal posts. About twenty purple-and-gilt chairs stood in two rows here, and Harry, filing into the front seats with the Weasleys, looked down upon a scene the likes of which he could never have imagined.
Bold mine. 'The Weasleys', yet we know Hermione to be there as well. A miss in editing? Perhaps. If it only happened once. However:

From OotP: Occlumency
The kitchen door opened and the entire Weasley family, plus Hermione, came inside, all looking very happy, with Mr Weasley walking proudly in their midst dressed in a pair of striped pyjamas covered by a mackintosh.

'Cured!' he announced brightly to the kitchen at large. 'Completely cured!'

He and all the other Weasleys froze on the threshold, gazing at the scene in front of them, which was also suspended in mid-action, both Sirius and Snape looking towards the door with their wands pointing into each other's faces and Harry immobile between them, a hand stretched out to each, trying to force them apart.

'Merlin's beard', said Mr Weasley, the smile sliding off his face, 'what's going on here?'

Both Sirius and Snape lowered their wands. Harry looked from one to the other. Each wore an expression of utmost contempt, yet the unexpected entrance of so many witnesses seemed to have brought them to their senses. Snape pocketed his wand, turned on his heel and swept back across the kitchen, passing the Weasleys without comment. At the door he looked back.

'Six o'clock, Monday evening, Potter.'
Again, bold mine. Another example where we know Hermione to be there. And not once - but twice - she is mentioned in merely as part of 'the Weasleys'.

Harry sees it. And we, the readers, are perhaps meant to see it as well? Clever, clever Rowling... :eyebrows:

[Alfonzo]

He wants to show Hermione that he sees her as a girl, not just Hermione.
Indeed :agree:. Ron is maturing, and he is being more thoughtful about Hermione. We see a softening of his character in OOTP, a consideration before speaking that wasn't there in the previous books. This gift is indicative of the shift in his character - we can tell that he has put thought into the gift, even though Hermione might not really want perfume. It's the thought that counts :).

[stic]

Icekat55 wrote:I've read that, thanks for re-posting though. It's quite - er - inventive A rather mean statement cosidering that even psychologists argue about how to interpret entire dreams correctly.
The heron attempt to interpret this dream is a quick-shot from the hip with a blind-fold. :td:

Ron and Hermione wear Crowns----------->R/Hr ship forshadowing

Have you ever read Freud and C.G. Jung as Sienna has? :huh: Jo has read it.
A crown in a dream is a classical symbol for royalty and regal positions. The stretch to a prefect-ship which comes with a shiny badge isn't a far one.

Ron and Hermione wearing crowns--------------->Ron and Hermione got prefect-ships.

[EmilyRose]

I'm a Heron, and I'm totally there with you on the crowns. In the context, they obviously symbolize the prefect position for Ron and Hermione. Harry feels left out, feels as if they can lord over him (which they don't), and feels that an honor has been bestowed upon them that he very well should have had.

There are better clues for Heron than Harry's dreams. I think there are better places to look for clues for any relationship--as I said, Harry is not that relationship-perceptive when he's awake, let alone asleep.

[dark_kneazle]

"What would a girl like?" Perfume is a girly thing. Hermione is a girl and that it what Ron is trying to do. He wants to show Hermione that he sees her as a girl, not just Hermione.

Exactly. In forth book he must havce really hurt her. "Hermione, you're a girl." He might have realised that by now and was trying to show her that he thought of her as a girl by getting her a present that was suited to a girl... my god, how mnay tenses did I use in that sentence. *shrugs*

[Princess Star]

I'm not sure what ship I support, whoever I support probably despise each other.

What do you think is the biggest ship?

[IceKat55]

Icekat55 wrote: A rather mean statement cosidering that even psychologists argue about how to interpret entire dreams correctly.
The heron attempt to interpret this dream is a quick-shot from the hip with a blind-fold. :td:

Ron and Hermione wear Crowns----------->R/Hr ship forshadowing

Have you ever read Freud and C.G. Jung as Sienna has? :huh: Jo has read it.
A crown in a dream is a classical symbol for royalty and regal positions. The stretch to a prefect-ship which comes with a shiny badge isn't a far one.

Ron and Hermione wearing crowns--------------->Ron and Hermione got prefect-ships.
Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a mean statement. I simply don't delve too deep into psychology, mythology, Freud, etc, to decipher what I believe to be Rowling's intended clues. Yes, IMO, I think that Ron & Hermione wearing crowns are yet another example of how Harry subconsciously already sees them as a couple. Just as Harry being 'irresistably reminded' of Molly appealing to her husband by Hermione's appealing to Ron at one point. It's R/Hr foreshadowing. Nothing more, IMO. :)

[dark_kneazle]

Ron and Hermione wearing crowns--------------->Ron and Hermione got prefect-ships.

Yes but power cold be shown in other ways with wealth and prosprerity. This way shows the prefect thing but it also has them in a position which would imply marrage.

[EmilyRose]

:welcome: Princess Star! Heron and Harmony (Ron/Hermione and Harry/Hermione) seem to be the most popular. Just jump right in and say what you think about the possible relationships--you can't come up with something more bizzarre than we've already argued. In the meantime, though, you might want to fix your tag: you've exceeded the allowed number of images and lines.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Icekat55 wrote: A rather mean statement cosidering that even psychologists argue about how to interpret entire dreams correctly.
The heron attempt to interpret this dream is a quick-shot from the hip with a blind-fold. :td:

Ron and Hermione wear Crowns----------->R/Hr ship forshadowing

Have you ever read Freud and C.G. Jung as Sienna has? :huh: Jo has read it.
A crown in a dream is a classical symbol for royalty and regal positions. The stretch to a prefect-ship which comes with a shiny badge isn't a far one.

Ron and Hermione wearing crowns--------------->Ron and Hermione got prefect-ships.

Oh, don't be so straight this might destroy the illusion that H/Hr shipper just don't get the straight answer what text gives us.. :evil:

:lol: Anyway, It's the most likely answer, isn't it? I always thought R/Hr shipper would go for the obvious one, but this proofs me wrong. That's actually scary.

[dark_kneazle]

Sorry, that wasn't meant to be a mean statement. I simply don't delve too deep into psychology, mythology, Freud, etc, to decipher what I believe to be Rowling's intended clues. Yes, IMO, I think that Ron & Hermione wearing crowns are yet another example of how Harry subconsciously already sees them as a couple. Just as Harry being 'irresistably reminded' of Molly appealing to her husband by Hermione's appealing to Ron at one point. It's R/Hr foreshadowing. Nothing more, IMO.

Yep and the 'he thought Hermione had got the point a whole lot better then Ron' thing :)

[Alfonzo]

Have you ever read Freud and C.G. Jung as Sienna has? :huh: Jo has read it.
I'm not so sure about Freud - I actually think that people can be too quick to jump onto the bandwagon concerning his theories. Besides, if we are running on Freudian analysis, isn't it fair to say that Harry could be attracted to Ginny as she gets older, as she posesses many of the physical qualities of Lily? :huh:

[Tzigone]

I'm a Heron, and I'm totally there with you on the crowns. In the context, they obviously symbolize the prefect position for Ron and Hermione. Harry feels left out, feels as if they can lord over him (which they don't), and feels that an honor has been bestowed upon them that he very well should have had.


I'm H/R, and I agree that the crowns are representative of the prefect thing, and very little else (perhaps of them being more "in the loop" or at Grimmauld Place and he being too unimportant to be told anything)

[stic]

EmilyRose wrote: There are better clues for Heron than Harry's dreams Hmmmm, Harry dreamt Neville and Mdm Sprout were dancing in the room of requirement.
Dancing in a dream is usually a symbol for sexual intercourse (that's a PG13 expression, right?) The Room of requirement is where Harry can be "potent", i.e. can exercise and heighten his power, which Umbridge et al obviously wanted to destroy. The DA which takes place in the very same room is unmistakably linked to Hermione, she gave him the opportunity to become strong, "potent" again.

There is stuff hidden in Harry's dreams which can be interpreted with a certain
assurance. :tu:

[LordGrindelwald]

As of right now Ginny does not know enough about Harry or who he is to be a viable choice. She knows more about his full name then his first, if you see what I'm saying. Her crush was based on his fame, and, if there's one thing Harry detests other than Voldemort, it's his fame. This could change in book 6, of course, but I simply don't see it happening.

A very common misconception. However, it is easily refuted in this scene from Chamber of Secrets:

DRACO: Famous Harry Potter. Can't even go into a bookstore without being famous.
GINNY: Shut up. He didn't want all that.

The only signs of any celebrity crush is in the first book, but by the second book, after Ron comes back to the Burrow full of stories about the real Harry Potter, Ginny's behavior towards Harry is completely different.

[Alfonzo]

EmilyRose wrote: Hmmmm, Harry dreamt Neville and Mdm Sprout were dancing in the room of requirement.
Dancing in a dream isusually a symbol for sexual intercourse (that's a PG13 expression, right?)
:whistle: Erm, let's go no further on the plausability of that interpretation...

There is stuff hidden in Harry's dreams which can be interpreted with a certain
assurance. :tu:
Not all dreams should be analysed - a lot are just plain nonsense, and have to be accepted as that. Random dreams are often included for comic effect in my opinion.

[The Garbage Man]

So whats your explanation for the other dream that Harry has which takes place in the DA room too, about Neville and Prof Sprout dancing and Prof McGonagal playing the bagpipes. Does it have H/Hr connotations too since the DA room is a symbolism for Hermione role in Harry's life.

The difference is, of course, that a paragraph wasn't written about N S and M; it was barely a sentence. That was written for the sake of silliness, and wasn't written with the same seriousness that the Cho scene was. There are theories behind what you're asking, but I don't believe in any of them.

It was quite entertaining actually - not every dream has underlying meaning. I most certainly didn't read anything into it. This dream says that Umbridge had his broom, i.e his love - that doesn't make sense! Most of my random dreams don't have any significance whatsoever, and I could list them quite happily .

In real life, most dreams have no significance. (In my opinion, at least) This, however, is a fiction story where dreams are riddled with symbols and have deeper meanings. In GOF, Harry mentions that he is having repeated dreams about a graveyard. What happened by the end? He fights Voldemort in a graveyard.

Not all dreams should be analysed - a lot are just plain nonsense, and have to be accepted as that. Random dreams are often included for comic effect in my opinion.

What was comic about the Cho dream? Its tone was serious, (At least most of it was; the end and beginning was humorous) and that is what leads me to believe there is a symbolic meaning behind it.

[dark_kneazle]

Hmmmm, Harry dreamt Neville and Mdm Sprout were dancing in the room of requirement.
Dancing in a dream isusually a symbol for sexual intercourse (that's a PG13 expression, right?) The Room of requirement is where Harry can be "potent", i.e. can exercise and heighten his power, which Umbridge et al obviously wanted to destroy. The DA which takes place in the very same room is unmistakenly linked to Hermione, she gave him the opportunity to become strong, "potent" again.

There is stuff hidden in Harry's dreams which can be interpreted with a certain
assurance.

...not really. I mean that's such a loose conection, Hermione being linked to the DA. Well everyone who attens is linked because they, well, attend, Umbridge is linked because if it hadn't been for her they would have to have started it, Dobby is linked cause he found the room, Sirius for supporting it... the list goes on. Dreams can be interpretted in many many ways. That passage doesn't foretell anything to me. It tells us what we already know and that's why they're in HArry's subconcuis. That Neville (who is in the DA) likes Herbology. I don't consider your interpretation sure.

[EmilyRose]

EmilyRose wrote: Hmmmm, Harry dreamt Neville and Mdm Sprout were dancing in the room of requirement.
Dancing in a dream isusually a symbol for sexual intercourse (that's a PG13 expression, right?) The Room of requirement is where Harry can be "potent", i.e. can exercise and heighten his power, which Umbridge et al obviously wanted to destroy. The DA which takes place in the very same room is unmistakenly linked to Hermione, she gave him the opportunity to become strong, "potent" again.

There is stuff hidden in Harry's dreams which can be interpreted with a certain
assurance. :tu:

See why we should lay off of Freudian analysis?

I've studied Freud and Jung as well. In the crown-dream, Jung's is the more appropriate approach to take, and Jung's leads us to the prefect interpretation. The problem with dream interpretation, even utilizing Jung or Freud, is that it is just as up to interpretation as the straight-read of them can be.

So, we can engage in pschological banter, which will get us nowhere, or we can look at the behaviors of the characters towards each other to determine where things are going, rather than looking for angles into a dream that probably wouldn't be in Harry Potter's head to access, and are likely just us desperately attempting to dredge up some hidden clues from JKR about our ships.

[dark_kneazle]

A very common misconception. However, it is easily refuted in this scene from Chamber of Secrets:

DRACO: Famous Harry Potter. Can't even go into a bookstore without being famous.
GINNY: Shut up. He didn't want all that.

The only signs of any celebrity crush is in the first book, but by the second book, after Ron comes back to the Burrow full of stories about the real Harry Potter, Ginny's behavior towards Harry is completely different.

I agree. We see this espially in book five, we see she gets over the remains of her crush and starts talking to him. This relationship is left started and ready to develop in HAlf blood prince. We've sen twice that she's been able to talk to HArry in difficult situations. HArry could never just be a famous name to her because she had him rescue her and (as you've said) she's heard who the real Harry Potter is through Ron. Now we'll see more and more of her through Quidditch practice and just rest time in the common room, and the reason we'll see more of her is HArry's seeing more of her.

[ginny88]

Disagree. Harry & Hermione have no bubbling romantic tension between them, so they have no problem with close, physical proximity to each other. With Ron and Hermione, it's the opposite. They fancy each other (subconsciously, perhaps, at that point), so they become nervous and shy when Hermione moves in to hug him, Ron begins to stutter nervously, she casts her eyes down nervously, and they awkwardly shake hands. The filmmakers have even told us that that was their intention with that scene. :)

:agree: great observation icekat, as i'm sure most heron shippers here also got the same impression (like moi :clap: ). i can relate to this situation coz i remember getting shy around my object of affection, get so self-conscious (does he find me pretty? interesting? cool? etc), while if i'm with a guy friend, since i feel at ease, then i wouldn't mind giving him a brotherly hug or kiss on the cheek.

and about the filmmakers being partial to R/Hr, well, if Jo doesn't agree with them, then i don't think that scene will be shot or written in the script without her 100% greenlight/consent. the scripwriter's on the right track about the R/Hr budding romance :)

[stic]

Erm, let's go no further on the plausability of that interpretation... I don't consider your interpretation sure. :rotfl:
Come on, Umbridge was the next best thing to nurse Ratched from "Cuckook's nest" who, as Randall P. McMurphy expressed so wonderfully accurate, tried to castrate the guys she was supposed to help..... :rotfl:

My interpretation is not as far out as some would like it to be. Face it: Hermione did just that for Harry. She gave him the opportunity to be powerful, "potent" again.

Pretty Cho has kissed Harry before that dream in the room of requirement.....after telling him he was a good teacher.....What more do you need? :eyebrows:

[dark_kneazle]

and about the filmmakers being partial to R/Hr, well, if Jo doesn't agree with them, then i don't think that scene will be shot or written in the script without her 100% greenlight/consent. the scripwriter's on the right track about the R/Hr budding romance

Very true. And even in Rupert interveiws he's mentioned the heroness that's aprroaching.

[yxs]

In Harry's dream Cho (of all people) turns into Hermione (of all people)

Even without in-depth analysis or being a H/Hr shipper you'd find it highly suspicious



Hm, I'm really amused by the Good Ship... that Heron is called like that... I didn't even know it before... The Good and The Bad Ship, lol... people are nuts

[McBeth]

In Harry's dream Cho (of all people) turns into Hermione (of all people)

Even without in-depth analysis or being a H/Hr shipper you'd find it highly suspicious

But doesn't it make sense that Hermione would appear in the dream, because it was she who always gave Harry advice about Cho?

[dark_kneazle]

My interpretation is not as far out as some would like it to be

It's not that obvious, and a book that isn't written perscifically for dream interpretters shouldn't been that in depth.

As I've said before the DA is not perscifically Hermione related,
If Neville and sprout are dancing why not ship them,
And I still don't get the DA giving HArry power thing.

[flying_high]

that makes sense

[EmilyRose]

"Good Ship" is a common term. "Good ship" Lollipop, "Good Ship" Mayflower, etc. You'll find it anywhere a ship is dicussed. It's not an implication as to whether other ships are bad, and it's not a slam in any way about the other shippers.

[noodle]

In Harry's dream Cho (of all people) turns into Hermione (of all people)

Even without in-depth analysis or being a H/Hr shipper you'd find it highly suspicious



Hm, I'm really amused by the Good Ship... that Heron is called like that... I didn't even know it before... The Good and The Bad Ship, lol... people are nuts
You'e back to being a Harmonian, I see!

I don't remember the dream scene actually, when did that happen? And what exacly happened in the dream?

[dark_kneazle]

But doesn't it make sense that Hermione would appear in the dream, because it was she who always gave Harry advice about Cho?

Very true, Harry even says she should write a book. She knows about relationships and analyses them as she does anything else. She always has to tell HArry what he's done wrong, why shpuldn't she do it in the dream?

[Firebolt2004]

In Harry's dream Cho (of all people) turns into Hermione (of all people)

Even without in-depth analysis or being a H/Hr shipper you'd find it highly suspicious

I'm afraid I don't see anything shippy about Cho turning to Hermione. Hermione is the voice of conscience in Harry's head. We have heard her in Harry's head telling him to follow rules , ask Dumbledore etc many times. The dream can be interpreted in so many ways and Harry himself tells Dumbledore he was dreaming of something stupid when it was interrupted by the vision of Arthur Weasley's attack.

[LordGrindelwald]

In Harry's dream Cho (of all people) turns into Hermione (of all people)

Even without in-depth analysis or being a H/Hr shipper you'd find it highly suspicious


Why would it be suspicious? Hermione was the one giving Harry advice about Cho. It would makle sense that she would appear in a dream that was about Cho, right?

However, what you Harmonies always fail to take into account, or very conveniently leave out, is: the dream is not flattering. It doesn't portray Hermione in a positive image any more than it does Cho. Harry was extremely angry when Hermione took away his firebolt in PoA; I thought he'd have gotten over it two years later, but apparently not.

To me, the meaning of the dream, if there is one, is quite plain. Cho and Hermione are being presented as extreme opposites. Cho is represented as too emotional. Hermione is being represented as too rational. Both are a major turn-off to Harry. He needs more of a middle ground.

[McBeth]

Very true, Harry even says she should write a book. She knows about relationships and analyses them as she does anything else. She always has to tell HArry what he's done wrong, why shpuldn't she do it in the dream?

Exactly - it proves the point, because Hermione's role in the dream was giving Harry advice about Cho, just like in real life.

Also, if someone says "But why did Cho turn into Hermione?" Almost always after Harry talks to Cho or has as problem with her, etc., Hermione pops up after Cho's gone to give him advice. It makes sense, even for a dream.

Note: If some of the stuff I just said about the dream is off, it's because it's been a while since I read the passage. :)

[Firebolt2004]

Why would it be suspicious? Hermione was the one giving Harry advice about Cho. It would makle sense that she would appear in a dream that was about Cho, right?

However, what you Harmonies always fail to take into account, or very conveniently leave out, is: the dream is not flattering. It doesn't portray Hermione in a positive image any more than it does Cho. Harry was extremely angry when Hermione took away his firebolt in PoA; I thought he'd have gotten over it two years later, but apparently not.

To me, the meaning of the dream, if there is one, is quite plain. Cho and Hermione are being presented as extreme opposites. Cho is represented as too emotional. Hermione is being represented as too rational. Both are a major turn-off to Harry. He needs more of a middle ground.

Your explanation is right on the mark. Well said.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Didn't JKR say the trio is strongest together?


Could someone tell me why she'd want to break it apart by making Harry/Hermione happen, and making Ron off on the side.

Likewise, since the book is Harry's P.O.V. and his two best friends are so key, if he starts dating Hermione... how much will we see of Ron?

[FredFancier]

Hmmmm, Harry dreamt Neville and Mdm Sprout were dancing in the room of requirement.
Dancing in a dream is usually a symbol for sexual intercourse (that's a PG13 expression, right?) The Room of requirement is where Harry can be "potent", i.e. can exercise and heighten his power, which Umbridge et al obviously wanted to destroy. The DA which takes place in the very same room is unmistakably linked to Hermione, she gave him the opportunity to become strong, "potent" again.
I think you are reading more into this scene then needed. For one thing it was Neville and Professor Sprout- no where was Hermione mentioned in that scene. The DA may be linked to Hermione but you'll find that the Room of Requirement is linked to Dobby. As Dobby told Harry about it. Otherwise the DA would have had to find somewhere else.
Harry/Dobby: The next Greatest ship

:rotfl:

[IceKat55]

Very true, Harry even says she should write a book. She knows about relationships and analyses them as she does anything else. She always has to tell HArry what he's done wrong, why shpuldn't she do it in the dream?
Actually, small point - - it was Ron that suggested she write a book. Which, IMO, goes hand-in-hand with the post-Cho-kiss scene, where Hermione is writing her letter to Krum right under Ron's nose, sparking his jealousy. Two quotes:

From OotP: The Eye Of the Snake
'Who're you writing the novel to, anyway?' Ron asked Hermione, trying to read the bit of parchment now trailing on the floor. Hermione hitched it up out of sight.

'Viktor.'

'Krum?'

'How many other Viktors do we know?'

Ron said nothing, but looked disgruntled.
coupled with
From OotP: Seen and Unforeseen
'I'm not saying what she did was sensible', said Hermione, as Ginny joined them, just as muddy as Ron and looking equally disgruntled. 'I'm just trying to make you see how she was feeling at the time.'

'You should write a book', Ron told Hermione as he cut up his potatoes, 'translating mad things girls do so boys can understand them.'
go hand in hand. (For starters, in either scene, we have Ron looking 'disgruntled'. May or may not be significant, but certainly is another parallel.) But Hermione says it herself - - it's not sensible - - but it's what girls do. But by letting that letter (aka novel) drop down under Ron's nose, she prompts his jealousy of Krum, trying to get a reaction from him.

Very clever clues on Rowling's part, IMO. :)

[FlyingPhoenix]

However, what you Harmonies always fail to take into account, or very conveniently leave out, is: the dream is not flattering. It doesn't portray Hermione in a positive image any more than it does Cho. Harry was extremely angry when Hermione took away his firebolt in PoA; I thought he'd have gotten over it two years later, but apparently not.

You fail to see that the point isn't that Hermione might appear flattering though one could say Harry can't really disagree with her with a valid argumentm, it's about the fact that he dreams about her at all, that we find her in a dream about Harry's romantic interes at all.

[dark_kneazle]

Actually, small point - - it was Ron that suggested she write a book. Which, IMO, goes hand-in-hand with the post-Cho-kiss scene, where Hermione is writing her letter to Krum right under Ron's nose, sparking his jealousy. Two quotes:

Opps... sorry about that... at least I remember they were atlking to Hermione, that's something.

[LIVVY7678]

Think me mental but I think that Harry and Luna Lovegood will get together

[razberrees]

I believe that Ron/ Hermione will end up together.Jk literally told us on the website ages ago durrrrrrrrr ,no offence to other ships u all have ure own thoughts on this subject! Plus isnt it obvious!! (it would be funny if Hermione ended up with Draco though!!!!!)

Im not to sure bout harry though!!!

Merry Christmas!!!

[IceKat55]

Think me mental but I think that Harry and Luna Lovegood will get together
Not mental at all. There are quite a few supporters of this ship, some excellent clues that point to it's possibilities, and I ship Harry with Luna as my 2nd choice (Ginny being the first). :)

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Oh yeah, and I'm back to posting. It's been a while, yeah.

I still believe this the most strong of all: Harry needs Ron to be the male companion, the best friend, the Quidditch teammate, the joking around person. Harry needs Hermione to be the mediator, the guide, the conscience voice in his head, and the person that helps him through things, like homework and mazes.

Neither of which (thank JKR it's not Ron) bring him the quality he needs most.

He needs a girlfriend. Someone to love in unconditionally, and someone he's going to have fun with. I don't think he'll have much fun, being there with Hermione when she is the reminded that he's foolish; he should have listened to her, and then Sirius wouldn't be gone.

He wants a girl he has things in common with, someone that he can have fun with. He doesn't need someone making him obsess over homework and the prophecy. Hermione's his strict mother-figure.

Ginny is willing to be the girl he can go to Quidditch matches with; the one he can play Exploding Snap with. He needs Ginny like this. This, the way, that Hermione cannot be. He needs, not guidence, but a companion.

[dark_kneazle]

You fail to see that the point isn't that Hermione might appear flattering though one could say Harry can't really disagree with her with a valid argumentm, it's about the fact that he dreams about her at all, that we find her in a dream about Harry's romantic interes at all.

The problem with your theory there was it was a dream about his romantic interest with Cho. Neville and Sprout were also in that dream, does that make it a foursum.

[McBeth]

Think me mental but I think that Harry and Luna Lovegood will get together

If you're mental, so am I. Welcome to the wonderful ship of Moonlight! :D

[LIVVY7678]

Your explanation is right on the mark. Well said.





I agree with you the person who wrote that wrote very good almost like a vivd picture :huh:

[dark_kneazle]

Ginny is willing to be the girl he can go to Quidditch matches with; the one he can play Exploding Snap with. He needs Ginny like this. This, the way, that Hermione cannot be. He needs, not guidence, but a companion.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

[stic]

Icekat55 posted:From OotP: The Eye Of the Snake
'Who're you writing the novel to, anyway?' Ron asked Hermione, trying to read the bit of parchment now trailing on the floor. Hermione hitched it up out of sight.
'Viktor.'
'Krum?'
'How many other Viktors do we know?'
Ron said nothing, but looked disgruntled To me Hermione's final comment means:
"Yes, it's Viktor Krum, and don't you start badgering me now while I'm finishing this letter!!" :rotfl:
From OotP: Seen and Unforeseen
'I'm not saying what she did was sensible', said Hermione, as Ginny joined them, just as muddy as Ron and looking equally disgruntled. 'I'm just trying to make you see how she was feeling at the time.'

'You should write a book', Ron told Hermione as he cut up his potatoes, 'translating mad things girls do so boys can understand them.' Ron is publicly acknowledging that he doesn't understand what girls say, want and are about. That's all the girls' fault of course. :rotfl:

[McBeth]

Ginny is willing to be the girl he can go to Quidditch matches with; the one he can play Exploding Snap with. He needs Ginny like this. This, the way, that Hermione cannot be. He needs, not guidence, but a companion.

But isn't that Ron's job, his place in Harry's life? They play Quidditch together, saw the Quidditch World Cup, and have matches of Wizard's Chess and Exploding Snap all the time. What's the point of having Harry's girlfriend be the one to suddenly have all the fun with Harry, since it would make Ron shrink out of Harry's life?

[dark_kneazle]

Not mental at all. There are quite a few supporters of this ship, some excellent clues that point to it's possibilities, and I ship Harry with Luna as my 2nd choice (Ginny being the first).

Same, I guess, but it was only cause of that one thing at the end of OotP. I mean apart from that she was... scary.

[FlyingPhoenix]

The problem with your theory there was it was a dream about his romantic interest with Cho. Neville and Sprout were also in that dream, does that make it a foursum.

No they were not.

[noodle]

But isn't that Ron's job, his place in Harry's life? They play Quidditch together, saw the Quidditch World Cup, and have matches of Wizard's Chess and Exploding Snap all the time. What's the point of having Harry's girlfriend be the one to suddenly have all the fun with Harry, since it would make Ron shrink out of Harry's life?

Ron will probably be busy with Hermione himself, and besides, playing games is not all that Harry and Ginny will be able to do together :p

[IceKat55]

To me Hermione's final comment means:
"Yes, it's Viktor Krum, and don't you start badgering me now while I'm finishing this letter!!" :rotfl:
Ron is publicly acknowledging that he doesn't understand what girls say, want and are about.
I was referring to the parallels, Rowling's choice of words. In the first paragraph, Ron asks who she's writing 'the novel' to. In the second, he says she should write 'a book'. In order to translate the mad things that girls do so boys can understand them.

I believe that Hermione was using the letter to Krum in order to make Ron jealous. Nothing more than a silly mind game that girls sometimes play. Ron would consider that a 'mad thing'. :)

All the girls' fault of course. :rotfl:
Hey! I resemble - er - RESENT that! :lol:

[FredFancier]

Didn't JKR say the trio is strongest together?


Could someone tell me why she'd want to break it apart by making Harry/Hermione happen, and making Ron off on the side.

Likewise, since the book is Harry's P.O.V. and his two best friends are so key, if he starts dating Hermione... how much will we see of Ron?
I agree. There is nothing saying that Harry likes Hermione. There is many things (canon and JKR quotes) stating that Ron likes Hermione.
So if Harry one day out of the blue decides he likes Hermione. And he asks her out, Ron would more then likely be pretty ****** off. Ron likes her, Ron liked her longer, and Ron is always 2nd best to Harry. (Ok not in prefect sense, but that doesn't even bother Harry anymore) the point is- Ron is never THE best, he has his brothers to compete with, and Harry. Any of Ron's achievements have already been done. Prefect- Percy, Bill, possibly Charlie. Quidditch hero: possibly Charlie (he was a seeker) and definetely Harry. And anything else Ron tries but doesn't succeed at: Harry has, or his brothers have. Why let Hermione be added to the list? Ron might just explode if that was to happen.
I know that people argue that Harry'd be upset and alienate himself if Ron and Hermione happened due to his temper at the beginning of OotP. Harry was not mad that they were together, he was mad because he thought they knew more about Voldemort when Harry should be the one to know, and he was mad that they he (harry) was kept in the dark, forced to be at the Dursleys when he thought that the Weasleys and Hermione were off having fun (and being informed) and then the dementors attacked Harry and still he was kept in the dark, and he was angry and confused as he had been expelled, then the expulsion was recalled and he had a trial to go to, and while all of that was happening he was being questioned about Dudley and was being shouted at to get out. Wouldn't you be a bit angry too? Also seeing as Harry doesn't like Hermione, he'd get over it (besides Neville, Ginny and Luna were made closer to Harry in the last book- perhaps so he could spend time with them should Ron and Hermione go on a date :eyebrows: )
or if Harry did like Hermione, I believe Ginny or Luna would snap him out of his "im misunderstood I like Hermione and I want to be with her" mood. They may explain, why not let Ron try, and do not intrude on their happiness right now, Ron is always 2nd best and give yourself time to think. If in a few weeks you still fancy Hermione, then maybe you should tell her how you feel and see what happens. But for now let them be happy and give yourself some time to think" kinda thing.
Harry may be angry at first, but as Harry is noble and sweet, he'd understand- Ron liked her first, and Ron is always 2nd best and deserves a chance with Hermione
Originally Posted by LordGrindelwald
Why would it be suspicious? Hermione was the one giving Harry advice about Cho. It would makle sense that she would appear in a dream that was about Cho, right?

However, what you Harmonies always fail to take into account, or very conveniently leave out, is: the dream is not flattering. It doesn't portray Hermione in a positive image any more than it does Cho. Harry was extremely angry when Hermione took away his firebolt in PoA; I thought he'd have gotten over it two years later, but apparently not.

To me, the meaning of the dream, if there is one, is quite plain. Cho and Hermione are being presented as extreme opposites. Cho is represented as too emotional. Hermione is being represented as too rational. Both are a major turn-off to Harry. He needs more of a middle ground.
you hit that dead on :clap:
Originally Posted by The Garbage Man
As Harry's dreams are nearly always relevant to the storyline in some way, this is the most clear interpretation. Unless you're implying that JKR wrote nearly a page of text for no reason at all, by all means offer your own.
of course she wrote nearly a page of text for a reason
but the books are not romance novels. Not everything is shippy.

[dark_kneazle]

No they were not.

... really? Sorry, Oh God, hopw long has it been since i've read the book, isn't this the dream with the chocolate frogs? Look I'll go get my book if someone can give me a page number I'd be very happy.

Anyway what I was just trying to say is the dream was about a romantic interest but one about Cho, Hermione was there, as she is in life, for advice, she wasn't there as the romance

[MPPMarauderGirl]

But isn't that Ron's job, his place in Harry's life? They play Quidditch together, saw the Quidditch World Cup, and have matches of Wizard's Chess and Exploding Snap all the time. What's the point of having Harry's girlfriend be the one to suddenly have all the fun with Harry, since it would make Ron shrink out of Harry's life?

I'm not saying having all the fun with. He needs someone without drama, like Cho; without words of guidence, like Hermione; and almost (but don't get me wrong here) more grounded than Luna.

Ginny and Harry have the most in common than all the other three. He faces her words like Ron faces Hermione's. He does not run away, he acknowledges it. What makes that so important is that he can talk to Ginny. What makes the Chocolate scene more important is not what it symbolises, love and affection, but that he talked to her when he didn't talk to Hermione. That he tolds her the troubles that Hermione was unaware of.

She will listen and will have fun with him. She is the mixture of Ron and Hermione, but it's leveled so that it's what he needs. He's not going to listen to Ginny nagging him, because he doesn't listen to Hermione. Ginny is a balanced and well based character, she will have not been brought in my JKR without a purpose.

She is strong willed, intelligent and witty - but she is also fun loving. She knows when to be good, but she's not uptight. That's what Harry is going to need. Not the constant reminders to do homework, but the always-smiling playful Ginny Weasley, keeping him young and allowing him to live life without the looming guilt of Sirius' passing, and the constant reminder of the prophecy.

[stic]

The problem with your theory there was it was a dream about his romantic interest with Cho. Neville and Sprout were also in that dream, does that make it a foursum Harry dreamt the symbol for sexual intercourse (two people dancing) in the room of requirement. (p. 509)
What does that room mean to Harry? This is the very place he got the ability again to be powerful, "potent" with leading the DA, the resistance. :evil:

There he got kissed by Cho (which he dumped at the end of OotP)
We can now ask ourselves:

Who had the idea of the DA which took place in that room? Who persuaded Harry to do it? Who gave Harry the opportunity again to be powerful/potent?

Hermione Jane Granger

[McBeth]

Ron will probably be busy with Hermione himself, and besides, playing games is not all that Harry and Ginny will be able to do together :p

:rolleyes: Ron will still be Harry's best friend whether he's with Hermione or not, and they'll still do the same things as always. If Ron can play games and Quidditch with Harry, what's the point of specifically putting Ginny in a position so she can do the same if she became Harry's girlfriend when there isn't a vacancy? Harry needs a girl who can give him happiness and freedom that no one else can.

[yxs]

But doesn't it make sense that Hermione would appear in the dream, because it was she who always gave Harry advice about Cho?
Yes, but TURNING INTO CHO is a very different thing

lol, the other way around of course

[MPPMarauderGirl]

I couldn't have put it better myself.

:) Hello, I don't think we've met, properly, anyway.


I'm Ren, I love Sirius, James and Remus (I'm dying for a prequel) and I ship Heron and Chocolate. I don't think I'd be fond if any other ships happened, but I have faith in mine, and I could (eventually) live with other ships.

Glad to be in the same boat - ship. lol :D Nice to meet you! :welcome: aboard (even though you've probably been here, and I may not remember you but eeh)

[FredFancier]

Who had the idea of the DA which took place in that room? Who persuaded Harry to do it? Who gave Harry the opportunity again to be powerful/potent?

there happens to be a problem with your logic
Hermione isn't linked with the Room of Requirement
Dumbledore is (more so then her) for mentioning it to Harry in passing
but Dobby more then Dumbledore as he told Harry about it very straight forwardly and told him how to get there. Without Dobby the DA would have had somewhere else to be.
Again Harry/Dobby would be the ship represented in the dream if you really think it is shippy.
Or as you twisted it to H/Hr, I can twist it to R/Hr: Ron and Hermione always practice together in the Room of Requirement, during DA meetings.

and another thing- with dancing being the sex symbol or whatever you said it was, Neville and Professor Sprout were dancing- so it would apply to them.

Seriously though- I do not think this was meant to be shippy at all. HP is supposed to be realistic and people have strange dreams often. Why can't this have been a strange dream?

[McBeth]

Ginny and Harry have the most in common than all the other three. He faces her words like Ron faces Hermione's. He does not run away, he acknowledges it. What makes that so important is that he can talk to Ginny. What makes the Chocolate scene more important is not what it symbolises, love and affection, but that he talked to her when he didn't talk to Hermione. That he tolds her the troubles that Hermione was unaware of.

What do you mean, he faces her words? He perks up and pays attention when Ginny's there to help or has knowledge to pass on - other than that, I have no idea what you're talking about.

She will listen and will have fun with him. She is the mixture of Ron and Hermione, but it's leveled so that it's what he needs. He's not going to listen to Ginny nagging him, because he doesn't listen to Hermione. Ginny is a balanced and well based character, she will have not been brought in my JKR without a purpose.

Obviously Ginny has a purpose. But I see one of her as being the girlfriend of Neville, not Harry. Everything about her is tailored to fit Neville, not Harry, IMO.

keeping him young and allowing him to live life without the looming guilt of Sirius' passing, and the constant reminder of the prophecy.

That applies much, much more to Moonlight than it does to Chocolate, IMHO.

[LordGrindelwald]

So the main character's gonna fall in love with the poorly developed female character just like this? With no build up, no tensions between them, no story in the books? How interesting is it going to be for the reader? Not much.
It is possible, but it is not likely... Rowling's a great writer, but she's not gonna make miracles happen either.

First of all, until you've read books 6 and 7, you're not in any place to make such a claim. I don't think it would take a miracle, or ingenious writing to develop Ginny's character sufficiently. Just a little bit of imagination. Five years of shared history is not necessary in a love story.

Second, just be glad Harry's getting someone at all, and not just anyone, but a girl who's shown many great traits. Luke Skywalker didn't even get that much.

Third, I think anti-H/G shippers completely miss the point of Ginny's character. She's not supposed to have total and complete depth at this point in the story. She's supposed to be an enigma, very slowly being unfolded, until she's ready to play her role in the story and in Harry's life. That's what I find interesting about the H/G story, and I think JKR is writing it wonderfully. The books are through Harry's point of view, so we don't really know a whole lot about Ginny's hopes, fears, dreams, desires, quirks, because Harry doesn't yet know about those. Had Ginny's character been developed too soon, Harry would have started falling in love with her earlier, but obviously, books 1-5 were not the time. Instead, Ginny was sort of in the background in books 1-4, but too much of an itching nagging presence to be written off as a one-note character like, say, Dean Thomas. In book 5, Ginny was given more development, but really, it was just some tantalizing hints about Ginny. We now know about her mischievousness, her ability to lie, word of mouth about her breaking into the shed to steal F+G's brooms, her sense of humor, her ability to calm Harry, her compassion, her bravery. Harry starts to notice her as a person more and more. But still, Ginny came close to being a Mary Sue, we still don't know the real Ginny. I got a sense that JKR is deliberately holding off on revealing too much about her; note how, in the library, when Harry and Ginny are about to bond, Madame Pince suddenly interrupts them and shoos them out of the library. Of the 3 extra characters in the DOM, Ginny is the most mysterious. Luna and Neville, I already have a pretty good grasp of their personal journey, and their essential personality traits. Ginny, I believe is still waiting for Harry to get to know her more, to reach out to her, like he should. And when he does, he'll start to love her. Ginny's inclusion in the DOM mission proves that she certainly isn't going to go away from Harry's life.

[yxs]

You'e back to being a Harmonian, I see!

I don't remember the dream scene actually, when did that happen? And what exacly happened in the dream?
Ehm... back to Harmonian?

No... I'm not necessarily a Harmonian... I just don't see the point arguing for Heron, as too many people do it already... it's much more fun to go against the majority, hehee.
I think about Harry first of all, as always... as no girl really is in the picture for him, I go for Hermione...

Cho turned into Hermione in the dream, that's what happened

I'm afraid I don't see anything shippy about Cho turning to Hermione. Hermione is the voice of conscience in Harry's head. We have heard her in Harry's head telling him to follow rules , ask Dumbledore etc many times. The dream can be interpreted in so many ways and Harry himself tells Dumbledore he was dreaming of something stupid when it was interrupted by the vision of Arthur Weasley's attack.
Well, of course... if you want to ignore the obivous...

But when I read it the very first time, without even knowing anything about shipping, this seemed very suspicious to me

[FlyingPhoenix]

... really? Sorry, Oh God, hopw long has it been since i've read the book, isn't this the dream with the chocolate frogs? Look I'll go get my book if someone can give me a page number I'd be very happy.

Anyway what I was just trying to say is the dream was about a romantic interest but one about Cho, Hermione was there, as she is in life, for advice, she wasn't there as the romance

It's at the end of the chapter: "Eye's of the Snake" As Mr Weasley was attacked.

As for the dream, I did not say it was a romantic one about Hermione, I said my suspicion is about the general idea that Hermione is in a romantic dream of Harry. Yes, she gave him advice in this dream but that's the point, don't you see? Why should he go out with a girl he don't understand if he got a girl right in front of him with whom he can talk, who seems to be able and understand him, where it isn't bothering him that she is secretive because he trust her anyway. There is not one scene where Harry is downright annoyed at Hermione's emotional behaviour, there is not once a scene where he runs of and thinks he don't understand her. If he got a question he asks her, they discuss it. But by Cho it was never like that.

As H/Hr shipper I don't claim they are perfect, what I claim is they got a foundation to fall for another and the way I read canon, they are falling for another. Hermione might be already in love, in fact OotP is only a book what shows that Harry is falling for her too. Haveing him dreaming about her, haveing her in one of his romantic dreams is forshadowing. To this I must add Harry dreamed how he decorate the DA room for christmas, as he got that kiss by Cho he was just standing in a decorated DA room. Mind you, Harry felt a negative feeling connected to that memory (refering to the Occlumency lesson) that Cho changed into Hermione shows that he seems to fear about the idea to have to face Cho alone again.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

What do you mean, he faces her words? He perks up and pays attention when Ginny's there to help or has knowledge to pass on - other than that, I have no idea what you're talking about.

I mean when he's being fresh with her, she holds her ground. When he's in one of those nobody-understands-me moments, she proves him wrong. She does not back off. She is strong for him. She reacts strongly too him. She will not fall victim to his self-pity trips. Tears do not well up in her eyes, as do in Hermione's.


Obviously Ginny has a purpose. But I see one of her as being the girlfriend of Neville, not Harry. Everything about her is tailored to fit Neville, not Harry, IMO.

This is where our opinion differs. Ginny could find the best in Neville, because Ginny is awesome and she can find the best in anyone, IMO. But I still believe Harry needs her more. To be fun and strong. I think Harry needs Ginny more than he could need Luna. With Ginny he has a big family (including a loving Mum and understanding Dad) he has enough brothers to go insane and he has a fun-loving strong-witted beautiful, successful well-rounded girl. Luna is a great character, don't get me wrong, but I just don't feel she has what Harry needs (what I stated above).


That applies much, much more to Moonlight than it does to Chocolate, IMHO.

We'll agree to disagree on this one.

[yxs]

You fail to see that the point isn't that Hermione might appear flattering though one could say Harry can't really disagree with her with a valid argumentm, it's about the fact that he dreams about her at all, that we find her in a dream about Harry's romantic interes at all.
Yeah...
So she's the one giving advice about Cho... that's no reason for Cho to TURN into her...

Like I've said before... Rowling knows what she's doing, especially while writing details

[ginny88]

I'm vaguely curious about some things that are related (think: cousins) topics. I realize that the movies and the books are different entities, but I wonder what affect the movies have had on our book-based shipping tendancies, if any, and what you think they say about what will happen in the next books (or if they say nothing at all).

For instance:

Do you believe that the R/Hr hints in the movie are a fabrication of the directors? Do you see H/Hr hints as often in the movies? Is there overt shipping on the part of the directors, or do you think that they know something we don't? What affect have the movies had on your shipping tendancies? And most importantly, do you feel that they have any bearing on what's going on in the books?

I know it's funny for us Heron shippers to watch the movies and see little tidbits thrown our way, but I must say--I've always been a Heron shipper, even prior to the movies. I just see clues in the book that lead me to believe that they like each other. Do the Harmony shippers find that annoying? Frustrating? Are the directors neglecting what hints -you- see in the books for your ideal HP couple?

love your siggy, EmilyRose :)

I've read the books first before the PS/SS movie was shown, and if i remember right, GOF has already been published before COS movie was shown. The "hermione not hugging ron" scene at the end of COS movie reinforces my impression of R-Hr tensions/ jealousies in the GOF book. 'though i love harry the most amongst the trio, i don't mind his two best pals falling in love (ron could be a little dense and insensitive at times but he's deeply loyal and makes me chuckle at times, he's an endearing character), and our ever so helpful hermione, needs someone to lighten her up and be seen by others as the cool girl that she really is.

and for harry not to be left out in the romance department - i hope jo will consider our little ginny :love:

regarding your question on overt shipping on the part of the directors, or if i think that they know something we don't?

if you have the cos dvd, and saw the interview on jo and steve kloves, the scriptwriter, it seems that steve will prepare the script as he understood it and consult jo if he's on the right track, coz jo wouldn't divulge her big secret (the ending of the potter series). and according to jo, steve's doing it right coz he's able to pick up some ideas being foreshadowed in GOF (i think she's referring to the teenagers awareness of the opposite sex).

the "hermione not hugging ron" scene became part of the movie, so that meant jo approving it to be shown and for me it also meant jo greenlighting the R/Hr budding romance.

[dark_kneazle]

Why should he go out with a girl he don't understand if he got a girl right in front of him with whom he can talk, who seems to be able and understand him, where it isn't bothering him that she is secretive because he trust her anyway.

I keep this exact theory but with Ginny, I mean, I think if it was H/Hr Jk wouldn't have done the thing with the argue in GoF. I mean Harry then hung out exclusively with Hermione and he didn't enjoy it. I'm just saying that if they got together they would spend a lot of time alone together and HArry hasn't shown a preferrence for that so far.

[LordGrindelwald]

You fail to see that the point isn't that Hermione might appear flattering though one could say Harry can't really disagree with her with a valid argumentm, it's about the fact that he dreams about her at all, that we find her in a dream about Harry's romantic interes at all.

So what if she appears at all in a dream about Cho? Doesn't mean a thing. Look at the actual content of the dream, if you're going to try to get any meaning at all.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

First of all, until you've read books 6 and 7, you're not in any place to make such a claim. I don't think it would take a miracle, or ingenious writing to develop Ginny's character sufficiently. Just a little bit of imagination. Five years of shared history is not necessary in a love story.

Second, just be glad Harry's getting someone at all, and not just anyone, but a girl who's shown many great traits. Luke Skywalker didn't even get that much.

Third, I think anti-H/G shippers completely miss the point of Ginny's character. She's not supposed to have total and complete depth at this point in the story. She's supposed to be an enigma, very slowly being unfolded, until she's ready to play her role in the story and in Harry's life. That's what I find interesting about the H/G story, and I think JKR is writing it wonderfully. The books are through Harry's point of view, so we don't really know a whole lot about Ginny's hopes, fears, dreams, desires, quirks, because Harry doesn't yet know about those. Had Ginny's character been developed too soon, Harry would have started falling in love with her earlier, but obviously, books 1-5 were not the time. Instead, Ginny was sort of in the background in books 1-4, but too much of an itching nagging presence to be written off as a one-note character like, say, Dean Thomas. In book 5, Ginny was given more development, but really, it was just some tantalizing hints about Ginny. We now know about her mischievousness, her ability to lie, word of mouth about her breaking into the shed to steal F+G's brooms, her sense of humor, her ability to calm Harry, her compassion, her bravery. Harry starts to notice her as a person more and more. But still, Ginny came close to being a Mary Sue, we still don't know the real Ginny. I got a sense that JKR is deliberately holding off on revealing too much about her; note how, in the library, when Harry and Ginny are about to bond, Madame Pince suddenly interrupts them and shoos them out of the library. Of the 3 extra characters in the DOM, Ginny is the most mysterious. Luna and Neville, I already have a pretty good grasp of their personal journey, and their essential personality traits. Ginny, I believe is still waiting for Harry to get to know her more, to reach out to her, like he should. And when he does, he'll start to love her. Ginny's inclusion in the DOM mission proves that she certainly isn't going to go away from Harry's life.

Amazingly brilliant. I could not agree more with you. Awesome way to word things! Bravo. :clap: :clap: :clap:

[dark_kneazle]

I'm Ren, I love Sirius, James and Remus (I'm dying for a prequel) and I ship Heron and Chocolate. I don't think I'd be fond if any other ships happened, but I have faith in mine, and I could (eventually) live with other ships.

HAve you read the shoebox project?

[stic]

FredFancier wrote: Or as you twisted it to H/Hr, I can twist it to R/Hr (...)and another thing- with dancing being the sex symbol or whatever you said it was, Neville and Professor Sprout were dancing- so it would apply to them.I hate to play that card but I assume you've never read Freud or Jung.

Try to see it for a moment entirely without that the dream: Umbridge took from Harry things he loved doing like Quidditch for example. Things where he could exercise and feel his power. Umbridge tried to kill him with the Dementors, then she tried to destroy him slowly. The Detentions, her attempts to sack Hagrid, etc.
And during all this, Harry wasn't able to do anything, he was powerless, rendered "impotent" by Umbridge.
Now through Hermione creating the DA, thinking it up and persuading Harry to do it, Harry suddenly could be active, powerful, "potent" again, he had something where he could exercise and feel his power. He actively did something against Umbridge, the ministry and LV.
Can't you give that to Hermione? She gave Harry (and the others) the DA. And in Harry's dream it's just mirroring the reality. In the DA, taking place in the Room of Requirement, Harry was powerful, "potent" again, represented in the dream by a symbol for sexual intercourse. :tu:

[dark_kneazle]

Originally Posted by LordGrindelwald
First of all, until you've read books 6 and 7, you're not in any place to make such a claim. I don't think it would take a miracle, or ingenious writing to develop Ginny's character sufficiently. Just a little bit of imagination. Five years of shared history is not necessary in a love story.

Second, just be glad Harry's getting someone at all, and not just anyone, but a girl who's shown many great traits. Luke Skywalker didn't even get that much.

Third, I think anti-H/G shippers completely miss the point of Ginny's character. She's not supposed to have total and complete depth at this point in the story. She's supposed to be an enigma, very slowly being unfolded, until she's ready to play her role in the story and in Harry's life. That's what I find interesting about the H/G story, and I think JKR is writing it wonderfully. The books are through Harry's point of view, so we don't really know a whole lot about Ginny's hopes, fears, dreams, desires, quirks, because Harry doesn't yet know about those. Had Ginny's character been developed too soon, Harry would have started falling in love with her earlier, but obviously, books 1-5 were not the time. Instead, Ginny was sort of in the background in books 1-4, but too much of an itching nagging presence to be written off as a one-note character like, say, Dean Thomas. In book 5, Ginny was given more development, but really, it was just some tantalizing hints about Ginny. We now know about her mischievousness, her ability to lie, word of mouth about her breaking into the shed to steal F+G's brooms, her sense of humor, her ability to calm Harry, her compassion, her bravery. Harry starts to notice her as a person more and more. But still, Ginny came close to being a Mary Sue, we still don't know the real Ginny. I got a sense that JKR is deliberately holding off on revealing too much about her; note how, in the library, when Harry and Ginny are about to bond, Madame Pince suddenly interrupts them and shoos them out of the library. Of the 3 extra characters in the DOM, Ginny is the most mysterious. Luna and Neville, I already have a pretty good grasp of their personal journey, and their essential personality traits. Ginny, I believe is still waiting for Harry to get to know her more, to reach out to her, like he should. And when he does, he'll start to love her. Ginny's inclusion in the DOM mission proves that she certainly isn't going to go away from Harry's life.

Perfectly put, that's what i've being trying to say but my words always come out so much more backwards that most people don't listen. Anyway, very well done.

[stass]

Jo did state that Hermione would not end up with Draco. And I also believe it is quite obvious she will end up with Ron. Her last book read in public she said there were enough obvious clues as to who would be with who.

[IceKat55]

Try to see it for a moment entirely without that the dream: Umbridge took from Harry things he loved doing like Quidditch for example. Things where he could exercise and feel his power. Umbridge tried to kill him with the Dementors, then she tried to destroy him slowly. The Detentions, her attempts to sack Hagrid, etc.
And during all this, Harry wasn't able to do anything, he was powerless, rendered "impotent" by Umbridge.
Now through Hermione creating the DA, thinking it up and persuading Harry to do it, Harry suddenly could be active, powerful, "potent" again, he had something where he could exercise and feel his power. He actively did something against Umbridge, the ministry and LV.
Can't you give that to Hermione? She gave Harry (and the others) the DA. And in Harry's dream it's just mirroring the reality. In the DA, taking place in the Room of Requirement, Harry was powerful, "potent" again, represented in the dream by a symbol for sexual intercourse. :tu:
Sorry...but something about this is just downright unsettling. :scared:

Also, I think it's a huge grasp at an itty bitty straw...but that's just my opinion, of course. And if Rowling comes out some day & confirms all that to be true, then I'll be the first in line to pat you on the back with a hearty "good on ya!" :)

[dark_kneazle]

in fact OotP is only a book what shows that Harry is falling for her too. Haveing him dreaming about her, haveing her in one of his romantic dreams is forshadowing.

You really think Harry was falling for Hermione in OotP? Most HArmonians I talk to think that Hermione already likes HArry and HArry will fall for her later on. I don't really see HArry showing any feelings for her. We know how HArry feels in love, we've seen it with Cho and he doesn't feel that way with Hermione. I don't really see any points that would suggest otherwise. He doesn't get jealous of her apparent relationship with Krum does he? Who does?

[MPPMarauderGirl]

HAve you read the shoebox project?

Never heard of it.

[yxs]

First of all, until you've read books 6 and 7, you're not in any place to make such a claim. I don't think it would take a miracle, or ingenious writing to develop Ginny's character sufficiently. Just a little bit of imagination. Five years of shared history is not necessary in a love story.
But it is for Ron and Hermione?

I'm sorry, I just don't buy that... If it was someone else, not Hermione, who's the only girl close to Harry, I still wouldn't buy that.
The point is, Ginny's character already had a perfect chance to develop, the writer didn't go that way.
Without much development, the character will simply not be enough for main hero's love interest. I have nothing against Ginny. I just can't even form an opinion about her, cause she's just not really there... I dunno what to think of her.


Second, just be glad Harry's getting someone at all, and not just anyone, but a girl who's shown many great traits. Luke Skywalker didn't even get that much..
I hate to say it again, but this is not Star Wars
And Rowling has said it herself. No matter what aspect she was talking about. It's not Star Wars. She never said "Mostly, it's not like Star Wars, but when it comes to romance it kind of is"
No, she said it's not like that... and really it's not like LOTR or The Matrix or any other book or movie... it's Harry Potter.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

The best argument for Harry/Hermione and Harry/Ginny (or even Harry/Luna) is that Harry knows Hermione and hasn't thought anything, and Harry doesn't know Ginny (or Luna) so you can't rule them out! We still have to get to know Ginny and Luna. We know everything about Hermione. And Harry just isn't in love with her. And he could've been...

[dark_kneazle]

Never heard of it.

Brilliant, I'll send you a link, Jk couldn't do better I swear. BAsically Marauders era story. Best thing in the world.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Brilliant, I'll send you a link, Jk couldn't do better I swear. BAsically Marauders era story. Best thing in the world.

I'm excited already! :)

[FlyingPhoenix]

I keep this exact theory but with Ginny, I mean, I think if it was H/Hr Jk wouldn't have done the thing with the argue in GoF. I mean Harry then hung out exclusively with Hermione and he didn't enjoy it. I'm just saying that if they got together they would spend a lot of time alone together and HArry hasn't shown a preferrence for that so far.

He was in GoF 14 at this age you rarely prefer a girl like Hermione but as more you mature, as more he sees past things and straight to a heart then it will fit. I'm not argueing H/Hr should have happened in GoF or OotP, that would be foolish. I'm here to argue that love needs time, needs to mature and grow before you appreciate it. The worst thing of love is that you feel it, really feel it if you lose the one you love that much. Its not before it hurts that you understand love fully.

An interesting post here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1645776&postcount=109)

I claim that in case of H/Hr I can answer all questions with a "Yes".

[FredFancier]

But it is for Ron and Hermione?

I'm sorry, I just don't buy that... If it was someone else, not Hermione, who's the only girl close to Harry, I still wouldn't buy that.
The point is, Ginny's character already had a perfect chance to develop, the writer didn't go that way.
Without much development, the character will simply not be enough for main hero's love interest. I have nothing against Ginny. I just can't even form an opinion about her, cause she's just not really there... I dunno what to think of her.
But Harry has also had the most times to fall for Hermione, they've shared many expieriences yet no spark. Sadly, sometimes people realize they like someone when their best friend likes the same person..nope that didn't do it...nor did: seeing Hermione with Krum, seeing her exteremly pretty, seeing her wit twigs in her hair, seeing her be the best, finally seeing her beaten (at chess and she is no great shakes at flying either), seeing her stand up to malfoy, seeing her devoted to her friends (including Harry, Ron, Hagrid) seeing her devoted to a cause (SPEW), having her snap him out of a "im so misunderstood" mood, when they have each been in life or death situations, etc.
Nothing has sparked an interest. So what will it take?
Rowling has had the oppurtunity to actually make Harry like hermione. But she (JKR) hasn't taken it

[MPPMarauderGirl]

He was in GoF 14 at this age you rarely prefer a girl like Hermione but as more you mature, as more he sees past things and straight to a heart then it will fit. I'm not argueing H/Hr should have happened in GoF or OotP, that would be foolish. I'm here to argue that love needs time, needs to mature and grow before you appreciate it. The worst thing of love is that you feel it, really feel it if you lose the one you love that much. Its not before it hurts that you understand love fully.

An interesting post here (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1645776&postcount=109)

I claim that in case of H/Hr I can answer all questions with a "Yes".


It is but a hope. Proof of Hermione's feelings are needed, and then you're still not half way there on Harry's.

Heron, on the other hand, already has Ron's, and Hermione's (in our opinions) and are just waiting for Hermione to give Ron the signal to ask her out.

[yxs]

The best argument for Harry/Hermione and Harry/Ginny (or even Harry/Luna) is that Harry knows Hermione and hasn't thought anything, and Harry doesn't know Ginny (or Luna) so you can't rule them out! We still have to get to know Ginny and Luna. We know everything about Hermione. And Harry just isn't in love with her. And he could've been...
I don't think we know everything about Hermione

We don't even know everything about Harry

[dark_kneazle]

I'm excited already!

He he owled you.

He was in GoF 14 at this age you rarely prefer a girl like Hermione

...but ron did.

We don't even know everything about Harry

Except we kinna do. We won't know what will happen, but we know what has and what he thinks of it all. It's taken from HArry's veiw point, think that we live in HArry's head, we know all he does.

[stic]

Icekat55 wrote: Sorry...but something about this is just downright unsettling. Really? :)
The dominant male sexual hormone is Testosterone, a man needs as much of it as possible with basically everything he does. The more testosterone the more likely you win a fight, the higher you rank in a group, etc.
Now if somebody who's got less testosterone than you can regularly win over you because he is in a leading position of a system, say Hogwarts High inquisitor, your testosterone level will sink dramatically.
If you're closest female friend should then happen to create a secret DADA army for you to lead, your testosterone will climb again to high levels.
Got it? ;)
Also, I think it's a huge grasp at an itty bitty straw...but that's just my opinion, of course. "Everything's sex." Brad Pitt
And if Rowling comes out some day & confirms all that to be true, then I'll be the first in line to pat you on the back with a hearty "good on ya!" I'll settle with that. :eyebrows:

[Scoop33]

Ok, I haven't participated in any of these love threads, but why does everyone think that Ron and Hermionie will end up together? Because of the one scene in PoA? Please fill me in.

[IceKat55]

Really? :)
The dominant male sexual hormone is Testosterone, a man needs as much of it as possible with basically everything he's doing. The more testosterone the more likely you win a fight, the higher you rank in a group, etc.
Now if somebody who's got less testosterone than you can regularly win over you because he is in a leading position of a system, say Hogwarts High inquisitor, your testosterone level will sink dramatically.
If you're closest female friend should then happen to create a secret DADA army for you to lead, your testosterone will climb again to high levels.
Got it? ;)
Um.... *flees*

"Everything's sex." Brad Pitt
Okay, now we're talkin'!!! Brad Pitt? YES, please!! :lol:

I'll settle with that. :eyebrows:
We have a deal. May the best ship sail. :)

[MPPMarauderGirl]

I don't think we know everything about Hermione

We don't even know everything about Harry

We don't. It has to do with Harry. Not us. We love Hermione, as a character. Harry could love Hermione has well. But he doesn't. Guess who does?

Ron.

He's love her at her best, he's loved her at her worst. He's loved her through troubled times, through boring times. Through everything.

Would that be fair of JKR... is unrequited love ever fair to write? When everyone, even Hermione, knows of it?

That's for JKR to decide. And I think we all know what she'll chose.

[IceKat55]

Ok, I haven't participated in any of these love threads, but why does everyone think that Ron and Hermionie will end up together? Because of the one scene in PoA? Please fill me in.
First, a question - - did you read GoF? Are you familiar with the Yule Brawl?

[Tzigone]

Yule Brawl in GOF is probably the biggest indication.

[dark_kneazle]

Ok, I haven't participated in any of these love threads, but why does everyone think that Ron and Hermionie will end up together? Because of the one scene in PoA? Please fill me in.

... do you even read the books?

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Definitely. The Yule Brawl is when we first learn of Ron's subconscience crush.

And I still think that Hermione wouldn't have said, "Ask me first next time!" if she wasn't hoping for it...

[FlyingPhoenix]

Heron, on the other hand, already has Ron's, and Hermione's (in our opinions) and are just waiting for Hermione to give Ron the signal to ask her out.

Just read in the last thread how CornedBee posted exactly what this all about was- About being fair not about how much Hermione wanted to go with Ron. It's bit of nonesense to expect that an insulted girl wants to go with Ron at all.

It is but a hope. Proof of Hermione's feelings are needed, and then you're still not half way there on Harry's.

:lol: I have both, thank you very much.

...but ron did.

Not really.

[yxs]

Rowling has had the oppurtunity to actually make Harry like hermione. But she (JKR) hasn't taken it
It's because it's still coming... we haven't reached the end of the book yet.
They're not even mature enough to realize it right now... frankly, it's not even needed now... their bond is very lovely like this and shows true love might very likely be an outcome of such bond once two people grow up

Doesn't mean it has to happen in this story... but really, I don't see many other options... Rowling could have easily written Ginny as a real "rival" to Hermione after COS, I was actually expecting that... she didn't.
And there really is no other girl we could consider as Harry's LI... I just honestly don't see many options... it's not as complex as seems.
But as there are also Ron's feelings written in, people don't want to go there... hehee...
I am personally not surprised by Ron's feelings or the possibility that Harry and Hermione might finally end up together... I knew Rowling would write something like that... I mean, it smelled like inner-trio-adult-tensions right from the beginning when these two boys got so friendly with this one girl.

[dark_kneazle]

Not, really.

Except yes. You don't think that Ron likes Hermione? Even if he wouldn't admit it to anyone? Why else is he so jealous of Krum? Why does he buy her perfume? Ther's millions of other reasons but I have to go, good luck with the battle.

bye

[LordGrindelwald]

But it is for Ron and Hermione?

Well, yes.

Harry has a lot of burdens on his plate now. The prophecy, dealing with Sirius' death, Voldemort on his ***, always acting the hero. He already has so much on his shoulders that I would rather he not have to face the extra hardships of falling in love with a best friend. As Ron and Hermione have shown, falling in love with a best friend is no piece of cake; there is awkwardness, confusion, fear of rejection, hurt feelings (like the Yule Brawl), jealousy, insecurity, etc, etc. It is much kinder to Harry that he have a straighforward romance with Ginny that doesn't develop too painfully slowly.

I'm sorry, I just don't buy that... If it was someone else, not Hermione, who's the only girl close to Harry, I still wouldn't buy that.
The point is, Ginny's character already had a perfect chance to develop, the writer didn't go that way.
Without much development, the character will simply not be enough for main hero's love interest.

Well, there are three main characters. Two of them are guys, and 1 of them is a girl. So, regardless of who ends up wth whom, Rowling is going to have to develop a 2nd female character relatively drastically. I can accept Harry falling for Ginny (up till now, he has been merely indifferent), but I have a much harder time buying Ron falling for Luna (whom he is hostile towards).


I hate to say it again, but this is not Star Wars
And Rowling has said it herself. No matter what aspect she was talking about. It's not Star Wars. She never said "Mostly, it's not like Star Wars, but when it comes to romance it kind of is"
No, she said it's not like that... and really it's not like LOTR or The Matrix or any other book or movie... it's Harry Potter.

Eactly, Harry Potter isn't Star Wars. Unlike Skywalker, who didn't even get a girl, Harry does get to have a LI, a "little romance". You should be grateful for that, even if the LI isn't the main main main girl.

Anyway, thanks, MPPMarauderGirl, dark_kneazle, FredFancier, firebolt004, for the encouragement. :)

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Just read in the last thread how CornedBee posted exactly what this all about was- About being fair not about how much Hermione wanted to go with Ron. It's bit of nonesense to expect that an insulted girl wants to go with Ron at all.

The belief is different, and I'm sorry for that. But Hermione's smart, and she knows that Ron was joking. She knows Ron and she knows Ron likes her. Whether she wants to go with him is a matter of opinion. She didn't want to go with Harry, so that doesn't help you.


:lol: I have both, thank you very much.

You're welcome, but sorry... you may have a problem proving Harry loves Hermione when he's pined over Cho as long as Ron's liked Hermione.


Not really.


:nc:

[yxs]

Except we kinna do. We won't know what will happen, but we know what has and what he thinks of it all. It's taken from HArry's veiw point, think that we live in HArry's head, we know all he does.
The point is, we don't know what he does when he grows up a little bit more... we don't know what he thinks in the future... means, we don't know if he's still gonna think of Hermione as a platonic friend in the future...
And Hermione, we know even less, as we're not in her head.


"Everything's sex." Brad Pitt



:rotfl: :rotfl:

I like this

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Anyway, thanks, MPPMarauderGirl, dark_kneazle, FredFancier, firebolt004, for the encouragement. :)

You earn encouragement because you bring wonderful points up. :)

[FlyingPhoenix]

But Hermione's smart, and she knows that Ron was joking.

J-O-K-I-N-G? :rotfl: Excuse me but that's the strangest thing I ever read. So let's play after that, so uhm why did Hermione not get iit on the ball? Why didn't she just laugh and say: "Oh, good joke, Ronnikens"?

She didn't want to go with Harry, so that doesn't help you.

Where is that? In RW-GOF?

you may have a problem proving Harry loves Hermione when he's pined over Cho as long as Ron's liked Hermione.

You're really thoughtful there, but don't worry I have enough evidence.


Except yes. You don't think that Ron likes Hermione? Even if he wouldn't admit it to anyone? Why else is he so jealous of Krum? Why does he buy her perfume?

I don't think Ron really is in love with Hermione. I consider his feeling just as deep as Harry's for Cho. So Ron don't really likes Hermione that way. He may think he does but in fact he don't.

[stic]

Icekat55 wrote: Okay, now we're talkin'!!! Brad Pitt? YES, please!! So, what do you think Brad is saying with "everything's sex" ? :eyebrows:
Maybe....that everything a man does is ultimately connected to his power, testosterone, to "potence"?

Tell me what you think he means!

FlyingPhoenix wrote:I don't think Ron really is in love with Hermione. I consider his feeling just as deep as Harry's for Cho. So Ron don't really likes Hermione that way. He may think he does but in fact he don't. Ron being the trio-member with the least ( in fact none) relationship/romance experience makes him the most likely to not know yet who's right for him and who will have him

[yxs]

Ok, I haven't participated in any of these love threads, but why does everyone think that Ron and Hermionie will end up together? Because of the one scene in PoA? Please fill me in.
I don't know why myself

It's very well promoted... or... well, for some reason, everyone thinks they're the final couple... because Jo once said Harry and Hermione are platonic friends, everyone thinks it can never change... it means automatically that this vague tension between Ron and Hermione is marriage already...

[HHrHippogriff]

Okay I obviously ship HHr I think in the final book HHr will get together I just think JKR does her research well & if it isn't
going to be HHr why did she have a Hippogriff that is the symbol
of Love and Impossibaty??What is RHr HG symbol for that???Just asking Iam new and Iam a peacemaker instead so don't get me wrong at all...
Why did JKR name Parvati and Padma Patil Indian godess's names that in legend is sisters as well I know I study all kinds of mythology of gods and godess legendery lovers of Greek,Latin,&Indian mostly......

[MPPMarauderGirl]

J-O-K-I-N-G? :rotfl: Excuse me but that's the strangest thing I ever read. So let's play after that, so uhm why did Hermione not get iit on the ball? Why didn't she just laugh and say: "Oh, good joke, Ronnikens"?

Because she knows he's joking but she doesn't play along with it. Girls are like that. Especially 14 year olds *cough*cough*.

Ever think that maybe Hermione didn't want to tell Ron because she'd be worried something like the Yule Brawl would happen?


Where is that? In RW-GOF?

You say you have proof that Harry likes Hermione. And that Ron doesn't. So... why doesn't Harry want to go to the ball with her?



You're really thoughtful there, but don't worry I have enough evidence.

I'd like to see some.


I don't think Ron really is in love with Hermione. I consider his feeling just as deep as Harry's for Cho. So Ron don't really likes Hermione that way. He may think he does but in fact he don't.

Harry doesn't even know Cho. Ron knows Hermione. How does that even compare?!

There's this book called Harry Potter... you know? :huh:

[AvadaKedavra]

Flying Phoenix

Yeah and Merry Christmas to you too.

And here's your present.

Only my head?

So be it.

Dear, they are not canon.

You sure?


Canon? What is considered "canon"? And where do you come off making the decision about what's "canon" and what isn't?

There is a difference between what's official and what's canon. Lots of things are official, including the films. But the information from those sources didn't come from J. K. Rowling herself, and that's really the crucial point. Only information which comes directly from the author is considered canon. I realize that she had a lot of input into the creation of the film, but she didn't chose the names for every shop sign in Diagon Alley (so we can't say that there's a Daily Prophet office there, even though the film shows the sign) and she didn't approve every line of dialogue. Quite a bit of information in the films contradicts what we know from the books, in fact. Just for your information, here's the list of what's considered canon, listed in order of "correctness":

-the novels and the "school books" (Fantastic Beasts and Quidditch Through the Ages)
-the illustrations in the "school books" (which were drawn by Rowling herself) but not the pictures in the novels
-interviews with Rowling where her actual words are given
-sections of the film/games/etc. which are known to be written by or okayed by Rowling (so far the flashback sequence in SS/f showing Lily's death is the only information that fits this criteria that we know of)

Impaled upon your own sword.


I'm not ignoreing canon, you are the one who claims things to be canon which are clearly not canon. As for your post only for me, I'm bit wondering why you put all this effort on it if you already know what I think about quotes.

See above. (I'm sure you can trust the Lexicon, it's entirely impartial, and endorsed by JKRowling.)

It's arrogant to claim that I ever did this, I questioned if you ever learnt that your use of Quotes won't change my interpreration of canon.

Well, it should do. Quotes are canon, so obviously they should feature in your 'interpreration of canon'. To ignore them is being biased.

I don't say she will, I say its possible she could. She could publish HBP and it turns out the HBP is indeed Voldemort though she said he isn't. She could have lied though I don't say she did.

Is this your slip-shod excuse for ignoring the quotes? Do you think JKR really would lie about the relationships in the interviews, or make such a huge, massive mistake and "accidentally" mix up Ron with Harry? If you do, then I'm disgusted.

And what disgusts me even more is that my 'quote analysis' that I did for you painstakingly emphasised on the close relationship between the quote itself and the book concerned. I detailed how the quote matched up exactly to the actual events themselves in the book, therefore increasing their reliability as worthy evidence. That was the whole point of my post, for goodness's sake.

Signing out,

Avada

P.S

I see no Harmonian has the courage to tackle my post. Not even one person. Last chance to prove your worth: http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1652463&postcount=778

[FlyingPhoenix]

Because she knows he's joking but she doesn't play along with it. Girls are like that. Especially 14 year olds *cough*cough*.

Ever think that maybe Hermione didn't want to tell Ron because she'd be worried something like the Yule Brawl would happen?

How do you know, that Hermione knows Ron is jokeing? Happy guessing?

Eh, no. She didn't tell him because Ron was downright rude to her, he claimed that she is just makeing it up, remember?

You say you have proof that Harry likes Hermione. And that Ron doesn't. So... why doesn't Harry want to go to the ball with her?

I said I have evidence that Harry starts to fall in love with Hermione in OotP and that Ron isn't in love with Hermione.
Why? Because Harry didn't think that low like Ron. Ron did expect that a girl like Hermione don't had a date. It was the very last day to ask, this speaks a lot what Ron thinks of her.

Harry doesn't even know Cho. Ron knows Hermione. How does that even compare?!

Oh, he does since PoA.

There's this book called Harry Potter... you know?

Your point?

[LordGrindelwald]

I don't think Ron really is in love with Hermione. I consider his feeling just as deep as Harry's for Cho. So Ron don't really likes Hermione that way. He may think he does but in fact he don't.

And what is the evidence/reasoning for this? Why exactly do you downplay Ron's crush on Hermione, yet you think that Harry's nonexistant feelings for Hermione represents true love? How can Ron's crush on Hermione possibly be remotely comparable to Harry's crush on Cho, when Ron has known Hermione as a friend for 3 years prior, while Harry only noticed Cho for looks?

[yxs]

Okay I obviously ship HHr I think in the final book HHr will get together I just think JKR does her research well & if it isn't
going to be HHr why did she have a Hippogriff that is the symbol
of Love and Impossibaty??What is RHr HG symbol for that???Just asking Iam new and Iam a peacemaker instead so don't get me wrong at all...
Why did JKR name Parvati and Padma Patil Indian godess's names that in legend is sisters as well I know I study all kinds of mythology of gods and godess legendery lovers of Greek,Latin,&Indian mostly......
I personally think this story is filled with so much symbolism for so many different ways to go, the orientation becomes hard... and yes, I think Rowling still knows exactly what she's doing.
She knew it with the Hippogriff... knows it with the dreams, the names... just that everything she writes has an alternative explanation... that's what makes it so confusing and creates places like this thread...

[LilypadLollipop]

And what is the evidence/reasoning for this? Why exactly do you downplay Ron's crush on Hermione, yet you think that Harry's nonexistant feelings for Hermione represents true love? How can Ron's crush on Hermione possibly be remotely comparable to Harry's crush on Cho, when Ron has known Hermione as a friend for 3 years prior, while Harry only noticed Cho for looks?
i second that statement :tu:
also, in harry's dream, he imagines hermione telling him to ask out cho, or give her chocolate cards or something. how is this good?

[PadfootLivesOn]

Ron and Hermione most definitly. Harry and Ginny eventually. Hopefully Remus/Tonks, Fred/Angelina, George/Katie.

[LordGrindelwald]

I said I have evidence that Harry starts to fall in love with Hermione in OotP and that Ron isn't in love with Hermione.
Why? Because Harry didn't think that low like Ron. Ron did expect that a girl like Hermione don't had a date. It was the very last day to ask, this speaks a lot what Ron thinks of her.

Wrong. When Ron is making those comments to Hermione, Harry is right there, laughing with Ron. Ginny scolds both of them. This is canon.

However, I think the Yule Balll taught Ron a lesson.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

How do you know, that Hermione knows Ron is jokeing? Happy guessing?

Because Ron makes jokes. "Maybe Riddle did the school an honor by killing Moaning Myrtle."~Paraphase CoS. Hermione knows this, Harry knows this, we all know this.

Eh, no. She didn't tell him because Ron was downright rude to her, he claimed that she is just makeing it up, remember?

Becaus he wanted her to go with him. He didn't want to believe that Hermione was going with someone else. He was shot down by his best friend, and he didn't want to believe that someone else was there. He was naive, and he was 14.


I said I have evidence that Harry starts to fall in love with Hermione in OotP and that Ron isn't in love with Hermione.
Why? Because Harry didn't think that low like Ron. Ron did expect that a girl like Hermione don't had a date. It was the very last day to ask, this speaks a lot what Ron thinks of her.

Look, Ron "had a crush" on Fluer. He hadn't thought to ask Hermione because Hermione is his friend. He didn't think about her that way. It still takes time for it to sink in. That (according to JKR) something is "going on" and Ron doesn't realize it yet!

You have evidence that Harry starts to fall in love with Hermione? When did you get this? When she was giving him advice about Cho? :huh:

Your point?

:nc:

[FlyingPhoenix]

Impaled upon your own sword....See above. (I'm sure you can trust the Lexicon, it's entirely impartial, and endorsed by JKRowling.)

:lol: No, I don't trust the HP-Lexicon, sorry but its like that. And I like to emphasis here nobody should ever buy informations just like that, its bit foolish thing to do. This Lexicon is created by? Yes, by a people from the Fandom, biased people who did interpret and collect informations from canon and JKR's interviews but I see myself too very much able to read books, interpret them and to read interviews also to understand the different whats canon and what not. Maybe you quote a lexicon whats not esp. for HP. Nothing is 100% right just like the past months showed. I'm pretty sure HP-Lexicon needed to edit the past months a lot. Coincidence? Nah.

Is this your slip-shod excuse for ignoring the quotes? Do you think JKR really would lie about the relationships in the interviews, or make such a huge, massive mistake and "accidentally" mix up Ron with Harry? If you do, then I'm disgusted

My trust in Humans is that high that I expect from them everything including murder.

And what disgusts me even more is that my 'quote analysis' that I did for you painstakingly emphasised on the close relationship between the quote itself and the book concerned. I detailed how the quote matched up exactly to the actual events themselves in the book, therefore increasing their reliability as worthy evidence. That was the whole point of my post, for goodness's sake

Come one, all you did was to interpret them.

And what is the evidence/reasoning for this? Why exactly do you downplay Ron's crush on Hermione, yet you think that Harry's nonexistant feelings for Hermione represents true love? How can Ron's crush on Hermione possibly be remotely comparable to Harry's crush on Cho, when Ron has known Hermione as a friend for 3 years prior, while Harry only noticed Cho for looks?

Maybe its the lack of trust? The speaking badly behind Hermione's back? Maybe but just maybe its Ron reaction to that kiss. Its a lot what sums it together that Ron isn't in love with Hermione.
Trust is the most important incredience for Love and there he lacks.

[stic]

AvadaKedavra wrote: Originally Posted by http://www.hp-lexicon.org/help/hp-faq.html#canon
Canon? What is considered "canon"? (...)
-the novels and the "school books" (Fantastic Beasts and Quidditch Through the Ages)
-interviews with Rowling where her actual words are givenHmmmm. Can you settle for the following: If Jo had indeed planned a love mystery throughout her 7-Volumes-epic, she would not straight-out give away that mystery in an interview but would rather try to support that mystery in that interview? :huh:
If you can agree on that you'd have to agree that in order to support these mysteries in the interview Jo would use the same kind of tricks and diversions as she does in the books (as there are no other methods).

So, the question of how clear Jo's quotes really are ship-wise, boils down to the question of whether Hermione really loves Ron or Harry. The answer to that question is then only to be found in the books.

So we should put our focus on the books rather than on the quotes. :tu:

Do you agree?

LG wrote: Why exactly do you downplay Ron's crush on Hermione, yet you think that Harry's nonexistant feelings for Hermione represents true love?Ron being the trio-member with the least ( in fact none) relationship/romance experience makes him the most likely to not know yet who's right for him and who will have him. :tu:

[MPPMarauderGirl]

I'm sorry, but if you think for one second that Ron didn't want Hermione to go with Krum (whom, let me remind you, is his hero, the person he looks up to and admirers) because he thinks Krum is using her to get to Harry or using her at all, in fact, then you are totally lost with who Ron really is.

If you know think it's lack of trust... if you think Ron doesn't trust his hero... then something's wrong.

Ron doesn't want Hermione going with anyone, he doesn't know why, but everyone else does (including Hermione): Ron likes Hermione.

[LordGrindelwald]

Maybe its the lack of trust? The speaking badly behind Hermione's back? Maybe but just maybe its Ron reaction to that kiss. Its a lot what sums it together that Ron isn't in love with Hermione.
Trust is the most important incredience for Love and there he lacks.

Well, Ron's a rather open and talkative teenage boy, and he speaks bad behind everyone's back, including Luna. Guess he won't fall in love with anyone then.

Yes, Ron might have said a few disparaging comments about Hermione in the earliest books when he was young; however, as the books progressed, I get the impression that Ron is becoming more respectful of Hermione. I believe the resolution to the cat/rat fight was the turning point.

Ron's reaction to the kiss? A very realistic reaction for someone in love with his best female friend.

I have never gotten the impression that Ron lacks trust in Hermione, but I guess that's subjective.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

AvadaKedavra wrote:Ron being the trio-member with the least ( in fact none) relationship/romance experience makes him the most likely to not know yet who's right for him and who will have him. :tu:

And that means Ron's crush is not counted? :huh:

[LilypadLollipop]

Ron doesn't want Hermione going with anyone, he doesn't know why, but everyone else does (including Hermione): Ron likes Hermione.
yeah, even harry knows Ron likes Hermione. again, i don't see why he would go out with her if he knew that Ron fancied her (personally)
and i also agree that he doesn't really know why he's mad, so he makes up bad excuses (fraternizing with the enemy :huh: )
anyways, i have to go and have my boxing day supper. more turkey, yummy :drool:
see you all later

[IceKat55]

So, what do you think Brad is saying with "everything's sex" ? :eyebrows:
Maybe....that everything a man does is ultimately connected to his power, testosterone, to "potence"?

Tell me what you think he means!

Sorry, I can't talk to you right now. You used the words "Brad Pitt" and "sex" in the same sentence...my brain has officially shut down. :p

Okay I obviously ship HHr I think in the final book HHr will get together I just think JKR does her research well & if it isn't
going to be HHr why did she have a Hippogriff that is the symbol
of Love and Impossibaty??What is RHr HG symbol for that???
:welcome:

The "symbolism" of the hippogriff is a well-covered topic on these threads. Harmonians (H/Hr shippers) believe it is a symbol of their romance. Codswallop, IMO...and not just because I'm a Heron (R/Hr shipper)!! :p

1) Ron and Hermione practiced on the same hippogriff during a lesson
2) Sirius rode on Buckbeak with Harry & Hermione....threesome? Ewwww.
3) Hermione didn't like the flight at all. In her own words, she "really" didn't like it.

The hippogriff, in the HP books, is likely meant to symbolize impossibility, if anything at all. The impossibility of rescuing Sirius Black from the Dementor's Kiss, IMO. :)

[stic]

MPPMarauderGirl wrote: I'm sorry, but if you think for one second that Ron didn't want Hermione to go with Krum (...)because he thinks Krum is using her to get to Harry or using her at all, in fact, then you are totally lost with who Ron really is. Really? How can you tell who Ron really is?
The interpretation that Ron made up all accusations is one that many take for granted. Fact is, before the Jule Ball long-toothed, bushy haired book-worm Hermione was bottom of the barrel date-wise for Ron, right down there with other "losers" like Neville. Ron had other girls in mind, girls like Fleur Delacour! :drool:
Popular ones! Stunningly pretty ones! Who cares if their characters were horrible!

When Ron got turned down by Fleur, it was 5 to 12, everyone had dates but him. He had messed up, he would lose his face by turning up without a girl on his side. :upset:
But wait! There's always-reliable Hermione Granger! She's gonna help me outta here, she's got to help me because I'm a friend who needs a helping hand! She fulfills the minimum requirements: She's female!! And she can't get a real date for herself anyway. Gee, good that I'm not doing worse than her, phew!

When Ron then got turned down by Hermione, he wouldn't believe she managed to get a real date for herself. When she then turned up with the uber-date of the evening......Ron came to the only conclusion logical to him:
Something's foul in the state of Rome! Krum would never choose Hermione just for Hermione's sake! he must have other motives, ......

[IceKat55]

P.S

I see no Harmonian has the courage to tackle my post. Not even one person. Last chance to prove your worth: http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1652463&postcount=778
I would LOVE to see a Harmonian try & counter that post. I even re-posted the link a few pages back as well, and got no response.

I think you win. :clap:

Hmmmm. Can you settle for the following: If Jo had indeed planned a love mystery throughout her 7-Volumes-epic, she would not straight-out give away that mystery in an interview but would rather try to support that mystery in that interview? :huh:
ITA with this - - in the case of Harry's Love Interest. Rowling has flat-out answered "I'm not telling" where he's concerned. There's the mystery.

However, when has she ever been coy about giving clues to a R/Hr pairing, or even offering them, unprompted, as she did in the Couric interview? :huh:

[Hagridmaydie]

How are the wishful thinking Harmonians doing today?

[faiza]

I've just been reading for the last couple of pages without posting myself because I'm soooooo confused. Argh!! I think I'm being brainwashed by the Heronians... R/Hr or H/Hr? H/Hr or R/Hr? i don't know anymore!! And my brain's hurting from thinking about it too much... :sigh:

[yxs]

How are the wishful thinking Harmonians doing today?
How are the rude Herons who think they're JK Rowling doing?



Really, people... just a BIT of respect?

[IceKat55]

I've just been reading for the last couple of pages without posting myself because I'm soooooo confused. Argh!! I think I'm being brainwashed by the Heronians... R/Hr or H/Hr? H/Hr or R/Hr? i don't know anymore!! And my brain's hurting from thinking about it too much... :sigh:
*beckons* It's the Heron...even Rowling says so...come to the Heron side...

Sorry, my 'brainwashing' capabilities ain't what they used to be... :p

[AvadaKedavra]

Flying Phoenix

No, I don't trust the HP-Lexicon, sorry but its like that.

Or you don't trust them for convienence' sake. You know what I mean.

This Lexicon is created by? Yes, by a people from the Fandom, biased people who did interpret and collect informations from canon and JKR's interviews but I see myself too very much able to read books, interpret them and to read interviews also to understand the different whats canon and what not. Maybe you quote a lexicon whats not esp. for HP. Nothing is 100% right just like the past months showed. I'm pretty sure HP-Lexicon needed to edit the past months a lot. Coincidence? Nah.

They outline it clear enough for me: anything direct from JKR= canon. JKR is the "God" in this case- (and you did use the "God" example in the first place). So if God actually came down onto earth and spoke to you, would you believe him? Would what He said be any less valuable than what's written in the Bible? If JKR told you to YOUR face, with those exact same words, those exact same expressions and those exact same vocal emphasions that were each and every R/Hr quote, would you believe her?

My trust in Humans is that high that I expect from them everything including murder.

If you refuse to accept the quotes because JKR could write something different in the future, then I will refuse to accept all H/Hr 'clues' in the text because JKR could say something different in the future. Same principle.

Furthermore, it's interesting to see that the only thing stopping you from R/Hr is the potential that JKR could do a U-turn and write something completely different to what's she said. You doubt her integrity as a writer, that's interesting to know.

If you're prepared to ignore the quotes "because you don't trust the Lexicon's definition of canon because they're human because they could be biased", then it's your integrity that should be doubted, not JKR's.

Win your honour back. Come out of this hole that you've dug and answer to your exclusive post. :evil:

Signing out,

Avada

P.S

Come one, all you did was to interpret them.

Ok. I'll give you that one.

Stic

Hmmmm. Can you settle for the following: If Jo had indeed planned a love mystery throughout her 7-Volumes-epic, she would not straight-out give away that mystery in an interview but would rather try to support that mystery in that interview?
If you can agree on that you'd have to agree that in order to support these mysteries in the interview Jo would use the same kind of tricks and diversions as she does in the books (as there are no other methods).

But Flying Phoenix is refusing outright that the quotes have any credibility. That's what she is effectively doing by denying them canon status.

I understand your perspective, I can see how you're thinking, but at least you're giving us ways and reasons why JKR is "supporting her mystery" via the quotes. You're protecting her integrity. I advise you (as a honourable opponent) to keep out of this one, ok?

[yxs]

I've just been reading for the last couple of pages without posting myself because I'm soooooo confused. Argh!! I think I'm being brainwashed by the Heronians... R/Hr or H/Hr? H/Hr or R/Hr? i don't know anymore!! And my brain's hurting from thinking about it too much... :sigh:
Just go back to the books, read them and stay with your own opinion... this is just a forum for fans...
To stay here, one needs a strong will of his/her own, lol... don't get brainwashed.

But finally, all this ain't that important :whistle:

[Hagridmaydie]

How are the rude Herons who think they're JK Rowling doing?

Really, people... just a BIT of respect?

So how am I supposed to ask what's bin going on.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

MPPMarauderGirl wrote: Really? How can you tell who Ron really is?
The interpretation that Ron made up all accusations is one that many take for granted. Fact is, before the Jule Ball long-toothed, bushy haired book-worm Hermione was bottom of the barrel date-wise for Ron, right down there with other "losers" like Neville. Ron had other girls in mind, girls like Fleur Delacour! :drool:
Popular ones! Stunningly pretty ones! Who cares if their characters were horrible!

When Ron got turned down by Fleur, it was 5 to 12, everyone had dates but him. He had messed up, he would lose his face by turning up without a girl on his side. :upset:
But wait! There's always-reliable Hermione Granger! She's gonna help me outta here, she's got to help me because I'm a friend who needs a helping hand! She fulfills the minimum requirements: She's female!! And she can't get a real date for herself anyway. Gee, good that I'm not doing worse than her, phew!

When Ron then got turned down by Hermione, he wouldn't believe she managed to get a real date for herself. When she then turned up with the uber-date of the evening......Ron came to the only conclusion logical to him:
Something's foul in the state of Rome! Krum would never choose Hermione just for Hermione's sake! he must have other motives, ......


If you call your hero a womanizer... then he's not your hero.

[faiza]

*beckons* It's the Heron...even Rowling says so...come to the Heron side...

Sorry, my 'brainwashing' capabilities ain't what they used to be...

Hmmm....I'm not ready to switch sides yet. I'm going to think about it and get back to you after a good night's sleep. I'll probably end up dreaming about crowns, Hippogriffs and having sex with Brad Pitt...Hmmm...The latter doesn't sound too bad... :blush:

Just go back to the books, read them and stay with your own opinion... this is just a forum for fans...
To stay here, one needs a strong will of his/her own, lol... don't get brainwashed.

Yeah, you're right...I can't believe I'm considering jumping aboard HMS Heron (again). It must be something I ate... :p

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Talk Ron down all you want. He didn't notice Hermione, and then he was jealous for an "unknown reason." He doesn't like her anymore, you say?

Well, Harry's never liked her to begin with. So if Ron doesn't, if he makes jokes, which Harry laughs at, then neither of them can like Hermione.

Ron thinks Krum is using Hermione... Ron thinks his hero is being untrustworthy...

Bad Ron.

I'm sure JKR wanted to make Ron like that... he's based off of one of her best friends you know...

[Hagridmaydie]

Just go back to the books, read them and stay with your own opinion... this is just a forum for fans...
To stay here, one needs a strong will of his/her own, lol... don't get brainwashed.
Dont get brainwashed - listen to sense.

[stic]

Icekat55 wrote:ITA with this (...) However, when has she ever been coy about giving clues to a R/Hr pairing, or even offering them, unprompted, as she did in the Couric interview? See, that's the thing about Jo's interviews: The question whether we can trust them or not regarding Heron and Harmony boils down to the question: Has Jo intended right along to develop H/Hr and divert from it through R/Hr (that is: through Hr---->R)? :huh:

If that is true, Jo would support that mystery in her interviews and try to divert from H/Hr through tricky answers and fake R/Hr hints.

If that is not true she's been openly hinting R/Hr.

So, we have to argue: Is there a H/Hr developement and a R/Hr diversion or not? This we can only argue with what's in the books.
You say for example: "No trick, Hermione was only looking furious because Fleur had kissed Ron", I say: "It's a trick through a little omission; Hermione has been looking furious ever since Fleur had kissed Harry, we will get that piece of information later.
:tu:

AvadaKedavra wrote: I understand your perspective, I can see how you're thinking, but at least you're giving us ways and reasons why JKR is "supporting her mystery" via the quotes. You're protecting her integrity. I advise you (as a honourable opponent) to keep out of this one, ok? Hmm, what's between you and FP stays between you and FP of course; you just gave me that springboard for something I wanted to say for a long time. :tu:
Icekat55 wrote:Sorry, I can't talk to you right now. You used the words "Brad Pitt" and "sex" in the same sentence...my brain has officially shut down. Aaah, you're avoiding giving me an answer (however nicely) :) I'm being very Hermione-ishly and persistent here: What do you think Brad meant? What I think he meant?*beckons* It's the Heron...even Rowling says so...come to the Heron side... "The power of christ compels you! The power of christ compels you! The power..." :rotfl:

The Exorcist, William Friedkin

[HHrHippogriff]

Okay ppl no need to agrue really to me I ship BOTH RHr&HHr shhh....don't tell but my One True Pairing is HHr,I even ship both
HL or HHr but don't ask me about HG eewwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!To me JKR
is the only one who actually knows the final pairing like RHr HG or HL can hook up in HP&HBP then in Book 7 HHr RWLL NLGW can prolly be the final pairing you never know really.Iam just glad I can stand alot of ships...NO NOT HARRYGINNY THOUGH SRY!!!!

[IceKat55]

See, that's the thing about Jo's interviews: The question whether we can trust them or not regarding Heron and Harmony boils down to the question: Has Jo intended right along to develop H/Hr and divert from it through R/Hr (that is: through Hr---->R)? :huh:

If that is true, Jo would support that mystery in her interviews and try to divert from H/Hr through tricky answers and fake R/Hr hints.

If that is not true she's been openly hinting R/Hr.

So, we have to argue: Is there a H/Hr developement and a R/Hr diversion or not? This we can only argue with what's in the books.
You say for example: "No trick, Hermione was only looking furious because Fleur had kissed Ron", I say: "It's a trick through a little omission; Hermione has been looking furious ever since Fleur had kissed Harry, we will get that piece of information later.
:tu:
And here is where we reach the impasse. You see it your way. I see it mine. Rowling will answer all, in good time. :D

Aaah, you're avoiding giving me an answer (however nicely) :) I'm being very Hermione-ishly and persistent here: What do you think Brad meant? What I think he meant?
Shhhh, I told you, I can't talk...busy!!! ;)

Of course I think that Brad meant what you think he meant. What else could he have meant? Does that make it the end-all-be-all in the Harry Potter 'verse? Does that make your interpretation of the dream a cold, hard fact? Ummm...no...I would have wager not...

Anyway, back to my yummy daydreams of Brad... :drool:

Okay ppl no need to agrue really to me I ship BOTH RHr&HHr shhh....don't tell but my One True Pairing is HHr,I even ship both
HL or HHr but don't ask me about HG eewwwww!!!!!!!!!!!!!To me JKR
is the only one who actually knows the final pairing like RHr HG or HL can hook up in HP&HBP then in Book 7 HHr RWLL NLGW can prolly be the final pairing you never know really.Iam just glad I can stand alot of ships...NO NOT HARRYGINNY THOUGH SRY!!!!
What's so bad about Harry/Ginny, in your opinion? :)

[rowansjet]

How are the rude Herons who think they're JK Rowling doing?

Really, people... just a BIT of respect?
Yes we should respect everyone's opinions, that includes people who come up with such wild ideas as Snorcacks, Heliopaths, and H/Hr. You never know they might come true! :cool:

Anyway, since it's the little things that matter, here's a few little things:

It's the Harry show. Harry is the star. Ron and Hermione are both sidekicks.Well done, have some chocolate. I've had more than enough over christmas (stop staring at me, you chocolateers, you're not getting me back on board just yet).

Wait, i can't send chocolate over the net. Too bad.

I suspect you expect that Harry with 17 will be the same as with 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15, that's a sad view.
I don't see Hermione changing, and honestly wouldn't want her to.I'm not sure who said these things, the post that quoted them was very confusing in that regard, but if they're from the same person, I'll giggle.

I am a former casual H/L shipper, but since Rowling has updated her site I have come to the conclusion that Luna is not going to be anyone's love interest, especially Ron's. Why would you pair her up with Ron who thinks she's nuts?
I think that Neville would always find Luna’s wilder flights of fancy alarming.
Rowling sunk N/L because Neville could not handle Luna's crazy ideas. Neville's not the only one to think she's insane--Ron does too.I find it curious that you don't think H/L is possible because Neville would find her flights of fancy alarming. After all, unless he's under high pressure, Neville is quite a timid character, while Harry is a very bold person.

I think it will be Harry and Luna. Though I support Red Moon and Chocolate, Harry has described Luna as 'dreamy'. And it probably will (unfornatly) be Ron and Hermione. :rotfl: While not wanting to discourage any potential H/L shippers, I found this very funny. I don't think Harry thought of Luna as THAT kind of 'dreamy'. Although, you never know...

:rotfl: *giggle* :rotfl:

I swear all you people are mental!!!! :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:So? What's knew?

Huh? What's that my precioussss? The leprachan wants me to burn the house down? Well I don't see anything wrong with that, do you bananaman?

[yxs]

Yeah, you're right...I can't believe I'm considering jumping aboard HMS Heron (again). It must be something I ate... :p
I really shouldn't say "People, don't bother shipping!" on a thread like this...
and I perfectly understand it's fun... but still, I don't bother myself... it gets so tiring, lol. I just don't want to take only one kind of views and go with those only... and then radically change when I find some "evidence"... I just really don't want to take all this too seriously... speculating is fun, going with your heart is fun... whether you're right or wrong in the end.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong... all that matters is that right now I can predict without being wrong, as there's just no way of knowing.

[faiza]

Dont get brainwashed - listen to sense.

And I'm sure this thread is full of sensible people :p

You know what I'd find really funny? If Hermione turned out to be interested in neither Harry nor Ron and Harry ended up single and Ron with Eloise or something. Imagine, all these HHr vs. RHr debates...pointless. All our "evidence" and symbolisme...just us reading too much into the books.


I really shouldn't say "People, don't bother shipping!" on a thread like this...
and I perfectly understand it's fun... but still, I don't bother myself... it gets so tiring, lol. I just don't want to take only one kind of views and go with those only... and then radically change when I find some "evidence"... I just really don't want to take all this too seriously... speculating is fun, going with your heart is fun... whether you're right or wrong in the end.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong... all that matters is that right now I can predict without being wrong, as there's just no way of knowing.

Well said.

[yxs]

Dont get brainwashed - listen to sense.
Brainwashing

[The Leprechaun]

Icekat55 wrote: And how do you expect will we see Harry making that last step , i.e. beginining to fall in love with Ginny?
Do you expect Ginny to replace the voice of Harry's conscience? :rotfl: Do you expect Harry to unconsciously choose to physically protect Ginny of all others in a split-second decision? :huh:
Do you expect Ginny to become that one person Harry relies on more than on anybody else? Do you expect Ginny to create a DADA-Army where Harry's DADA and leader-talents can grow and be shared? Do you expect Ginny to learn from Harry how to turn around a hopeless situation (like being captive of somebody like Umbridge and her fascist lil' helpers) when Harry is "about are a nanosecond from being tortured"?

No, Ginny is not Harry's voice of reason, she's his voice of romance :D . He has already unconciously protected Ginny and has conciously done it as well, plus Harry has a "saving people thing" and that is probably the main reason why this isn't a very good point for your ship as Harry has saved a great many people. Emotionally, yes to a point. For spells and ideas, not entirely as a lot of people have helped Harry get through things. Well, since there more or less is one already this isn't a fair argument, as we can't say yes a to a creation of a third dueling club since it is highly unlikely that the D.A. will be replaced if they try a dueling club up again. Well, since she has already done that in the Chocolate scene, then the answer is yes.

Funny that at the same time Jo gave Hermione the last thing she needed to be complete and turned her into a "pretty" girl, Harry was in love with Cho. Funny that Harry and Hermione grew even more together until the end of OotP while Harry had this thing with Cho.

Funny that Ron was the one that actually noticed it. Funny that Ginny and Harry grew closer in the end of OotP.

Other people think different. From where I'm standing, Jo must now only give Harry that realization because Hermione has been in love with Harry for quite some time. :tu:
All Jo needs to do with the R/Hr "dynamic" is to write Ron making the big move and getting turned down. :tu:

What sparks the realization though? If nothing has yet, then what does it take? It took Cho just sitting on a broom in Quidditch robes. As there is no proof that Hermione likes Harry, it would take Harry a realization that has yet to come in his and Hermione's platonic friendship. It would take Hermione to actually say yes to him or to puruse him (the latter being unrealized in canon, the former would only be speculation).

And if Ron got turned down and Harry got accepted what would Ron do? You don't seem to take into account what the effects of the causes would be.

[HHrHippogriff]

YAY someone ackeknowledges me THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I just think Ginerva is too forceful even more than Mione I mean I don't have anything against it's just her mother genetic sense that gets me I guess it is cause we the readers has always seen as shy having a crush on the boy who lived not Just Harry...Then in book 5 she is all Forceful personality and she has never been their for Harry in books 2-4.....

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Why don't we be honest and make a list of what we think our ship needs to sail?

For instance...

I feel Heron needs:

1) Ron to mature
2) Hermione to make her feelings clear
3) Hermione needs to make her feelings known to everyone
4) Ron needs Harry's okay
5) Ron needs to ask Hermione out

For Chocolate-

1) More interactiong (being around each other more often)
2) More talking and getting to know each other
3) Ginny's feelings to become deeper and more age appropiate
4) Harry to get a jolt in his stomach
5) Harry to get the courage to ask Ginny out**
Alternative 5) Ginny to get the signal to ask Harry out

**: He already has Ron's blessing.

Be honest, now!!

[IceKat55]

YAY someone ackeknowledges me THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!I just think Ginerva is too forceful even more than Mione I mean I don't have anything against it's just her mother genetic sense that gets me I guess it is cause we the readers has always seen as shy having a crush on the boy who lived not Just Harry...Then in book 5 she is all Forceful personality and she has never been their for Harry in books 2-4.....
But don't you think Harry will need a forceful girl as his partner? He has quite a temper from time to time, and has even brought Hermione to tears. However, Ginny has, more than once, stood up to him nicely, put him firmly in his place, and handled his temper with evenly matched "coolness". She's a very strong girl, IMO, and has many qualities that Harry will need.

Why don't we be honest and make a list of what we think our ship needs to sail?
The HMS Heron needs:
1) Ron to be hit in the head with a brick to make him wake up & realize how he feels about Hermione. :p
2) Hermione to be more self-assured and confident.

Chocolate needs:
1) Marshmallows
2) Graham Crackers
*er, sorry, still in Christmas mode...*

The HMS Chocolate needs:
1) More time spent between Harry & Ginny, so they can get to know each other better
2) Harry to be hit in the head with Ron's left-over brick to make him wake up & realize that Ginny is exactly what he needs. :p

[HHrHippogriff]

[FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][COLOR=Green]Hey does this place have forum groups has in ships where you can discuss within your peers??????Like if I wanted to join a RHr and HHr forum would that be okay???? :upset: :upset: No one is talking to me...

[IceKat55]

Hey does this place have forum groups has in ships where you can discuss within your peers??????Like if I wanted to join a RHr and HHr forum would that be okay?????
There are some good R/Hr communities at sugarquill.net and checkmated.com, and I think that Portkey is the big Harry/Hermione site. :)

[HHrHippogriff]

Iam glad someone fianlly ackeknowlegde me Iam still upset thank you for telling but I meant here..???Is there any here at all or no???The good thing I don't need to get in between as RHr HHr HL NLGW mean comments I support all ships though on my profile I I have RWLL HPHG NLGWW those are my OTP though..

[MPPMarauderGirl]

The HMS Heron needs:
1) Ron to be hit in the head with a brick to make him wake up & realize how he feels about Hermione. :p
2) Hermione to be more self-assured and confident.

Chocolate needs:
1) Marshmallows
2) Graham Crackers
*er, sorry, still in Christmas mode...*

The HMS Chocolate needs:
1) More time spent between Harry & Ginny, so they can get to know each other better
2) Harry to be hit in the head with Ron's left-over brick to make him wake up & realize that Ginny is exactly what he needs. :p


:D Hehe very nice. Can't disagree with that.

It's good to be back posting. I miss reading your thoughts. :D

[Tzigone]

Why don't we be honest and make a list of what we think our ship needs to sail?

For instance...

I feel Heron needs:

1) Ron to mature
2) Hermione to make her feelings clear
3) Hermione needs to make her feelings known to everyone
4) Ron needs Harry's okay
5) Ron needs to ask Hermione out



Yes, a bit.
It would definitely help.
Disagree; it isn't anyone else's business.
Why? For what possible reason would one unattatched teenager need an "okay" from his best friend to ask out another unattatched teenager when there is no history of romantic interest between any of them?
Well, she could ask him out, but I don't think she's likely to, so you have a point. But it isn't necessary that he ask her out as long as he tells her how he feels.



For Chocolate-

1) More interactiong (being around each other more often)
2) More talking and getting to know each other
3) Ginny's feelings to become deeper and more age appropiate
4) Harry to get a jolt in his stomach
5) Harry to get the courage to ask Ginny out**
Alternative 5) Ginny to get the signal to ask Harry out

**: He already has Ron's blessing.

Be honest, now!!


Agree.
Absolutely.
Not really, we don't know her feelings; we have no idea how deep or "age appropriate" they are.
That'd be fantastic. Some physical reaction is needed. Band around the chest or difficulty breathing would be fine.
One of them would definitely have to make the move. I'll have to go with Harry this time as Ginny might be afraid of rejection.
No one needs Ron's blessing. He doesn't get to decide what they do with their lives. However, I'll aknowledge it could put a serious crimp in their friendship (Ron and Harry's) if Ron didn't like it (which I think he does). I don't see the thought occurring to Harry, though. But maybe, after the Michael Corner thing.

[IceKat55]

Iam glad someone fianlly ackeknowlegde me Iam still upset thank you for telling but I meant here..???Is there any here at all or no???The good thing I don't need to get in between as RHr HHr HL NLGW mean comments I support all ships though on my profile I I have RWLL HPHG NLGWW those are my OTP though..
This is the Love Thread, it's not a chat room or message board for a specific couple...it's meant to argue and the debate different pairings/possibilities. I'm not sure if there is a place for specific pairings on the CoS forums, though...you can visit threads in the Editorials section (http://www.cosforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=120), but those threads are meant to discuss certain editorials, and sometimes turn into debates as well. :)

[The Leprechaun]

INot really. The R/Hr climax would be: Ron making the big move and earning the big "no". :td:

And that is anti-climatic. It's like stopping a song three-quarters of the way finished, with no reason behind the stop.

[HHrHippogriff]

Me eitheir really Iam though trying to get use to the thought of HG
though......

[IceKat55]

:D Hehe very nice. Can't disagree with that.

It's good to be back posting. I miss reading your thoughts. :D
Good to have you back, General! *salutes*

[HHrHippogriff]

Can someone tell what ship is Heron??/& Others please Iam too new I have been to other forums though I mostly join HHr forums more over RHr forums though....

[IceKat55]

Me eitheir really Iam though trying to get use to the thought of HG though......
It's all a matter of personal preference, of course, but Ginny wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, should Harry choose her, IMO. You're welcome to read the essay I wrote (the link is at the top of my signature), it is a Chocolate-supporting essay, but also, it's meant to explore Ginny a bit, and focus on her character strengths. :)

Can someone tell what ship is Heron??/& Others please Iam too new I have been to other forums though I mostly join HHr forums more over RHr forums though....
HMS Heron = Hermione/Ron

HMS Harmony = Harry/Hermione

HMS Chocolate = Harry/Ginny

HMS Moonlight = Harry/Luna

HMS Red Moon = Ron/Luna

[Tzigone]

Heron = Hermione/Ron

[eRiN_GRyFFiN]

They outline it clear enough for me: anything direct from JKR= canon. JKR is the "God" in this case- (and you did use the "God" example in the first place). So if God actually came down onto earth and spoke to you, would you believe him? Would what He said be any less valuable than what's written in the Bible? If JKR told you to YOUR face, with those exact same words, those exact same expressions and those exact same vocal emphasions that were each and every R/Hr quote, would you believe her?

Hi AK and everyone:)

I'm ready to read the 10 or more pages I've been missing..jeje.

But Avada, or anyone who wants to answer. I'm not new here, but I'm still having questions about canon. I mean. You say canon is anything direct from JKR, isn't it?

I understand that. But I'm still thinking of it, and...

Was this why Dumbledore would no longer meet Harry's eyes? Did he expect to see VOldemort staring out of them, afraid, perhaps, that their vivid green might turn suddenly to scarlet, with catlike slits for pupils?[...]
He felt dirty, contaminated...[...] He had not merely seen the snake, he had been the snake, he new it now..
what's his after, apart from followers?
Stuff he can only get by stealth...like a weapon. Something he didn't have lat time.
I'm the weapon, Harry thought[...]

My point is: this, as something written by JK herself, should be canon, isn't it? But here's my thought. We all know what happens after that moment. We all know Harry's not the weapon, though his reasoning makes perfect sense.
Imagine that we didn't know wether Harry's the real weapon. This paragraph would also be canon, wouldn't it? Incorrect, but canon.. or not?

I mean..how can we know that something that it's written now, it's the absolute truth?

I hope you can get me! lol...I'm nothing without a hot chocolate, so I'll back soon ;)

[hermy_weasley2]

Me eitheir really Iam though trying to get use to the thought of HG though......

I didn't realize that this was even a possibility until I joined CoS and read some of the posts in some of the earlier versions of this thread (right around the time OoTP came out). It seemed so obvious to me after that.

It's like stopping a song three-quarters of the way finished, with no reason behind the stop.

Exactly. I just don't see that happening. Hermione wouldn't "say no" (figuratively if not literally) so quickly in a kind or cruel way.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Yes, a bit.
It would definitely help.
Disagree; it isn't anyone else's business.
Why? For what possible reason would one unattatched teenager need an "okay" from his best friend to ask out another unattatched teenager when there is no history of romantic interest between any of them?
Well, she could ask him out, but I don't think she's likely to, so you have a point. But it isn't necessary that he ask her out as long as he tells her how he feels.


You can never have too many rebuttals.

Known to everyone... Ron and Harry. Should have specified.

Because Ron admirers Harry and doesn't want to make Harry feel as though he's planning on leaving him for Hermione.

Most likely after the feelings are set, a romance with dating will occur, and it is more likely for him to ask her out.



Agree.
Absolutely.
Not really, we don't know her feelings; we have no idea how deep or "age appropriate" they are.
That'd be fantastic. Some physical reaction is needed. Band around the chest or difficulty breathing would be fine.
One of them would definitely have to make the move. I'll have to go with Harry this time as Ginny might be afraid of rejection.
No one needs Ron's blessing. He doesn't get to decide what they do with their lives. However, I'll aknowledge it could put a serious crimp in their friendship (Ron and Harry's) if Ron didn't like it (which I think he does). I don't see the thought occurring to Harry, though. But maybe, after the Michael Corner thing.


That's why the have to get deeper. Age appropriate as in - not a school girl crush, but deep boyfriend girlfriend love.

Yeah, when Ron told Ginny to chose better, he kind of glanced at Harry. I definitely think he'd be more than happy to see his sister and Harry together. Blessing might have been a bad word - but close friends definitely don't want to make the mistake of dating each other's sisters and breaking their hearts. I'm almost certain Ron doesn't mind and that's always a plus. :tu:

:) Glad to hear your opinions.

Good to have you back, General! *salutes*

Hehe
:blush: No need to salute me. I wish I could write and discuss things half as well as you do.

I salute you. :)

:cool:

Hi AK and everyone:)

I'm ready to read the 10 or more pages I've been missing..jeje.

But Avada, or anyone who wants to answer. I'm not new here, but I'm still having questions about canon. I mean. You say canon is anything direct from JKR, isn't it?

I understand that. But I'm still thinking of it, and...



My point is: this, as something written by JK herself, should be canon, isn't it? But here's my thought. We all know what happens after that moment. We all know Harry's not the weapon, though his reasoning makes perfect sense.
Imagine that we didn't know wether Harry's the real weapon. This paragraph would also be canon, wouldn't it? Incorrect, but canon.. or not?

I mean..how can we know that something that it's written now, it's the absolute truth?

I hope you can get me! lol...I'm nothing without a hot chocolate, so I'll back soon ;)

That's interesting. I think the main difference is: that's Harry's thoughts. It's yet to be proven or disproven. It's something he, himself, thinks. With no back up. No one to tell him otherwise.

After being proved otherwise, it became canon fact that Harry was not the weapon.

It's like there are hypothesis throughout Harry Potter. They aren't theories until they are somehow proven.

If that makes any sense.

[The Leprechaun]

Do you believe that the R/Hr hints in the movie are a fabrication of the directors?

Do you see H/Hr hints as often in the movies?

Is there overt shipping on the part of the directors, or do you think that they know something we don't?

What affect have the movies had on your shipping tendancies?

And most importantly, do you feel that they have any bearing on what's going on in the books?

Not really, or not in spirit. They get their ideas from the books, at least Chris Columbus and Steve Kloves definitely did.

No, but by using a Harmonian POV (no offense Harmonians) then yes. The only movie I thought Harmony after was SS, and that was because I was new to the series (literally, the first movie was what got me interested and stopped me from thinking that the Potterverse was a cult). But, by the time I got to GoF, I thought that Heron was a definite.

Well, on Chirs and David Heyman's part yes, as the have both admitted to it. I think that they do know something we don't, how you ask? Well, JKR has said that they are going the right way and probably had time to talk to the directors about some of the things and she does congratulate Chris on foreshadowing things between the trio that she doesn't do until GoF (coincidently the same book the Harry has no interest in Hermione and Ron pretty obviously does, Hermione is still a mystery though I think that it is quite probable that Hermione liked Ron too or was beginning to).

Not one bit.

Somewhat, I mean they have to keep the hints that matter to the actual plot. They just can't come up with completely new reasons for how the characters act.

[Alfonzo]

:D Hehe very nice. Can't disagree with that.

It's good to be back posting. I miss reading your thoughts. :D
I can say the same actually - I still remember the 'old' days where IceKat, others and myself used to debate with Spikey... Where is he?! :huh:

[eRiN_GRyFFiN]

That's interesting. I think the main difference is: that's Harry's thoughts. It's yet to be proven or disproven. It's something he, himself, thinks. With no back up. No one to tell him otherwise.

After being proved otherwise, it became canon fact that Harry was not the weapon.

It's like there are hypothesis throughout Harry Potter. They aren't theories until they are somehow proven.

If that makes any sense.

don't worry, it makes perfect sense, lol...at least to me ( I can't assure if I'm the best example here..:P)

that's what I thought: as you said, after being proved otherwise, we take the books as canon. But what if Harry's thoughts and appreciations weren't proven otherwise? We would take it like the truth, when maybe we, after book five, are just in the same Harry's "I'm-the-weapon" level. Just not seeing the whole truth, just a parcial one.

I hope someday I'll get along with the canon thing...^_^

[HHrHippogriff]

HMS Heron = Hermione/Ron

HMS Harmony = Harry/Hermione

HMS Chocolate = Harry/Ginny

HMS Moonlight = Harry/Luna

HMS Red Moon = Ron/Luna


IceKat55 Iam now fully an HG shiper as well ..........

Thank you very much for making me an HG shipper by that essay it helped alot Iam very open-minded.....

[Baroness]

IceKat55 Iam now fully an HG shiper as well ..........

Thank you very much for making me an HG shipper by that essay it helped alot Iam very open-minded.....

Who wouldn't want to be on a ship that has anything to do with Chocolate. Mmm.....chocolate......

[MPPMarauderGirl]

don't worry, it makes perfect sense, lol...at least to me ( I can't assure if I'm the best example here..:P)

that's what I thought: as you said, after being proved otherwise, we take the books as canon. But what if Harry's thoughts and appreciations weren't proven otherwise? We would take it like the truth, when maybe we, after book five, are just in the same Harry's "I'm-the-weapon" level. Just not seeing the whole truth, just a parcial one.

I hope someday I'll get along with the canon thing...^_^

Well...... Mostly everything Harry thinks is proven or shot down, isn't it? I think if I had an example of his thoughts then I could tell you what the canon does. I think everything's canon, and eventually it'll be proven otherwise, eh?

lol I think this is getting beyond my comprehension level.

[Alfonzo]

don't worry, it makes perfect sense, lol...at least to me ( I can't assure if I'm the best example here..:P)

that's what I thought: as you said, after being proved otherwise, we take the books as canon. But what if Harry's thoughts and appreciations weren't proven otherwise? We would take it like the truth, when maybe we, after book five, are just in the same Harry's "I'm-the-weapon" level. Just not seeing the whole truth, just a parcial one.

I hope someday I'll get along with the canon thing...^_^
Yeah, I think that we can take everything as canon, but you have to separate that into opinion canon and fact canon - this can prove difficult so you have to be very direct and possibly detatched (from any bias) ;). We know that Harry's thoughts are, well... Harry's thoughts, and we can apply them to describe his character. We are seeing his side of the story, and so we have to question his reliability as the narrator (something we've been doing at uni lately ;)). I think that he is a reliable narrator, as we know that Harry is a (mostly) truthful boy - but perhaps he has limited perceptions of romantic events...

[IceKat55]

IceKat55 Iam now fully an HG shiper as well ..........

Thank you very much for making me an HG shipper by that essay it helped alot Iam very open-minded.....
Glad you enjoyed it. :)

Who wouldn't want to be on a ship that has anything to do with Chocolate. Mmm.....chocolate......
Heh, heh...that sounded like Homer Simpson...

Mmmmmm....Choooocolate... ;)

I can say the same actually - I still remember the 'old' days where IceKat, others and myself used to debate with Spikey... Where is he?! :huh:
I was wondering about him the other day...he hasn't signed on in MONTHS. Someone should email him!

[MPPMarauderGirl]

I also think, we're forgetting this is a childrens book, altimiately. I suppose many of you still find 14 very young and child like. But I also think we're gonna reading too much into it.

Think of what an 8 year old things. He's reading it with his parents. And they read the Yule Brawl, "Mommy? Why is Ron so mad?"

"Well, I think he's jealous, sweetheart."

"Why?"

"I'm not sure. Maybe he has a little crush on Hermione."

"Oooh."

And then Hermione likes Harry.

I don't know. Sounds fishy for a kids book. Hmm :\

[Alfonzo]

I was wondering about him the other day...he hasn't signed on in MONTHS. Someone should email him!
Yeah... I remember the debates - sometimes I read my old posts and feel all nostalgic :sad:.

I also think, we're forgetting this is a childrens book, altimiately.
Don't forget thought that it operates on many levels ;). There are subtleties to it that, well, keep us debating! :lol:

I suppose many of you still find 14 very young and child like. But I also think we're gonna reading too much into it.
Well, when reading Ootp we can sense a shift in mood between the trio - there is romantic tension between characters that is more pronounced than ever... Harry has his first kiss even! (Milestone event! :D) Basically the romantic side to the story is all part of their development and their maturity - we aren't reading too much into it by saying that it's there, because it most certainly is :agree:.

Think of what an 8 year old things. He's reading it with his parents. And they read the Yule Brawl, "Mommy? Why is Ron so mad?"

"Well, I think he's jealous, sweetheart."

"Why?"

"I'm not sure. Maybe he has a little crush on Hermione."

"Oooh."
:lol: Perceptive parents!

And then Hermione likes Harry.

I don't know. Sounds fishy for a kids book. Hmm :\
You know why you get that fishy feeling, don't you? ;) That's why I doubt that JK would pull us first in one direction for more than half the series, and then suddenly contradict herself and all that she has hinted at in the HP books and interviews, and pull us in the opposite direction. :no:

[MPPMarauderGirl]

You know why you get that fishy feeling, don't you? ;) That's why I doubt that JK would pull us first in one direction for more than half the series, and then suddenly contradict herself and all that she has hinted at in the HP books and interviews, and pull us in the opposite direction. :no:


Hehehe. That's why I said it!! :)

14 isn't that young. I'm 14 1/2 and my boyfriends a month from being 17. We hold our own. But shhhhhs :scared:

[The Leprechaun]

Can i just speculate on the hug at the end of COS movie?How about hermione loves harry so she runs into the great hall and hugs him thinking let the people watching go to hell,I don't care I love this guy ,and then spontaneously goes to hug ron then backs out thinking "hey I don't love this guy,I don't want him running away with wrong impressions."

Sadly, that is not how the scene was intended to be read. Chris Columbus has said what the design of that scene was and that was that Emma was to hug one of her best friend's and to not hug her LI, because that was where the tension (and he did mean romatic tension) is (unfortunatley, I can't get the quote for some odd reason *stupid site and their remodeling*, but I have shown it before many times and checked it's veracity).

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Sadly, that is not how the scene was intended to be read. Chris Columbus has said what the design of that scene was and that was that Emma was to hug one of her best friend's and to not hug her LI, because that was where the tension (and he did mean romatic tension) is (unfortunatley, I can't get the quote for some odd reason *stupid site and their remodeling*, but I have shown it before many times and checked it's veracity).

Very true. :p

[Alfonzo]

Sadly, that is not how the scene was intended to be read. Chris Columbus has said what the design of that scene was and that was that Emma was to hug one of her best friend's and to not hug her LI, because that was where the tension (and he did mean romatic tension) is (unfortunatley, I can't get the quote for some odd reason *stupid site and their remodeling*, but I have shown it before many times and checked it's veracity).
Yes, that is true, but also see here - short but sweet :lol::

My short post on this (http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1655437&postcount=1184)

[hermy_weasley2]

Can i just speculate on the hug at the end of COS movie?How about hermione loves harry so she runs into the great hall and hugs him thinking let the people watching go to hell,I don't care I love this guy ,and then spontaneously goes to hug ron then backs out thinking "hey I don't love this guy,I don't want him running away with wrong impressions."

We have to remember that in this scene, Hermione is still twelve years old. It's not likely that a twelve-year-old, especially one like Hermione who doesn't exactly fit in anyway, is going to display those kinds of feelings for a guy in front of her entire school. But, in that scene she's coming out of her Basilisk-induced petrification, and she's seeing her friend (Harry) again for the first time. She hugs him because she sees him as a friend and doesn't realize he's a guy, in the way that Ron and Harry realize she's a girl when they need dates for the Yule Ball.

[eRiN_GRyFFiN]

Yeah, I think that we can take everything as canon, but you have to separate that into opinion canon and fact canon - this can prove difficult so you have to be very direct and possibly detatched (from any bias) ;). We know that Harry's thoughts are, well... Harry's thoughts, and we can apply them to describe his character. We are seeing his side of the story, and so we have to question his reliability as the narrator (something we've been doing at uni lately ;)). I think that he is a reliable narrator, as we know that Harry is a (mostly) truthful boy - but perhaps he has limited perceptions of romantic events...

Well...... Mostly everything Harry thinks is proven or shot down, isn't it? I think if I had an example of his thoughts then I could tell you what the canon does. I think everything's canon, and eventually it'll be proven otherwise, eh?

lol I think this is getting beyond my comprehension level.

lol...I think I'm guilty if you finally get your brains melted..sorry! It's just professional distorsion :P

I know that Harry's thought's is a subjective example, since Harry himself can't be otherwise. He's living the story, so he's quite subjective.

But I was just thinking about Scabbers. We would probably have had heated argues with JK herself in disguise on this board, if she'd only suggested that Scabbers was more than a rat until POA release. "Scabbers is just RON'S RAT, that's canon!" we would have said...and poor JK looking at the screen like---> "are you that sure, young padawans? :eyebrows: lol
So perhaps there are canon (a snake bit Arthur Weasley) and "canon" (as you say, romantic stuff among others like prophecies..I mean, what we know by now, though it may not be as we know it by now..lol

I feel so insecure about all Harry Potter stuff!!! :D

[Alfonzo]

We have to remember that in this scene, Hermione is still twelve years old. It's not likely that a twelve-year-old, especially one like Hermione who doesn't exactly fit in anyway, is going to display those kinds of feelings for a guy in front of her entire school. But, in that scene she's coming out of her petrified state, and she's seeing her friend (Harry) again for the first time, and she hugs him because she sees him as a friend and doesn't realize he's a guy (in the ay that Ron and Harry realize she's a girl when they need dates for the Yule Ball).
Exactly :agree:. Love the 'doesn't realise he's a guy' - :lol:. We can't forget the fact that Harry has been through one heck of an ordeal - he almost died (again), and that is no small thing! Is it shippy to want to comfort a friend in this sort of situation by hugging him? No it isn't.

lol...I think I'm guilty if you finally get your brains melted..sorry! It's just professional distorsion :P

I know that Harry's thought's is a subjective example, since Harry himself can't be otherwise. He's living the story, so he's quite subjective.

But I was just thinking about Scabbers. We would probably have had heated argues with JK herself in disguise on this board, if she'd only suggested that Scabbers was more than a rat until POA release. "Scabbers is just RON'S RAT, that's canon!" we would have said...and poor JK looking at the screen like---> "are you that sure, young padawans? :eyebrows: lol
So perhaps there are canon (a snake bit Arthur Weasley) and "canon" (as you say, romantic stuff among others like prophecies..I mean, what we know by now, though it may not be as we know it by now..lol

I feel so insecure about all Harry Potter stuff!!! :D[/FONT]

I guess then that we can say that canon is canon, yet behind the canon there can be more canon that we never knew existed! :lol: Seriously though, there are the constraints of what JK has chosen to reveal to us. We can only attempt to fill in the blanks as best we can using what evidence that we already have. That evidence generates differing opinions, but at least we have solid canon to form our opinions on... Phew! I don't even like the word 'canon' - there's no way that it's ever going to be a future Word Of The Week! :lol:

[Deevo]

Whew, another ten odd pages to wade through. You guys are hard to keep up with sometimes but at least it's a holiday today so I can spend a few hours reading. Anyway I'll try to put things in order.

Can i just speculate on the hug at the end of COS movie?How about hermione loves harry so she runs into the great hall and hugs him thinking let the people watching go to hell,I don't care I love this guy ,and then spontaneously goes to hug ron then backs out thinking "hey I don't love this guy,I don't want him running away with wrong impressions."
Personally I thought the opposite, the scene was there to forshadow the beginning of the tension between Ron and Hermione. A couple of interesting things on that from the interviews on the COS DVD. Firstly in the interview with Jo and Steve Klovis Jo mentions that Steve forshadows that potential relationship earlier than Jo had in the books. Secondly, though this is pretty irrelevant to the character's relationship it gives an interesting insight into the way that the age group interacts, Emma was really quite scared at the thought of doing that scene.

Well, in Harry's earlier dream Draco turned into Snape. Do you think that means Draco might be redeemed in the same fashion as Snape? Or something like that?
Actually it looks like a real possibility particularly as Dumbledore himself commented on Snape's relationship with James as being "much like" Draco's relationship with Harry.

A very common misconception. However, it is easily refuted in this scene from Chamber of Secrets:

DRACO: Famous Harry Potter. Can't even go into a bookstore without being famous.
GINNY: Shut up. He didn't want all that.

The only signs of any celebrity crush is in the first book, but by the second book, after Ron comes back to the Burrow full of stories about the real Harry Potter, Ginny's behavior towards Harry is completely different.
Interesting interpretation. I always figured her reaction to Harry's arrival in the Burrow was a pretty blatant sign though.

Page 31 Bloomsbury edition:
At that moment, there was a diversion in the form of a small, red-headed figure in a long nightdress, who appeared in the kitchen, gave a small squeal, and ran out again.

'Ginny,' said Ron in an undertone to Harry. 'My sister. She's been talking about you all summer.'
'Yeah, she'll be wanting your autograph, Harry,' Grinned Fred
Given that the celebrity comment came from Fred though it could be interpreted differently, after all Fred and George haven't always been the most sympathetic when it comes to their other siblings.

"Good Ship" is a common term. "Good ship" Lollipop <snip>
:grumble: Thanks Emily, now I've got that ruddy song stuck in my head. Nice picture in your sig by the way. :tu:

To me, the meaning of the dream, if there is one, is quite plain. Cho and Hermione are being presented as extreme opposites. Cho is represented as too emotional. Hermione is being represented as too rational. Both are a major turn-off to Harry. He needs more of a middle ground.
That and neither are suitable as romantic attatchments.

I still believe this the most strong of all: Harry needs Ron to be the male companion, the best friend, the Quidditch teammate, the joking around person. Harry needs Hermione to be the mediator, the guide, the conscience voice in his head, and the person that helps him through things, like homework and mazes.

Neither of which (thank JKR it's not Ron) bring him the quality he needs most.

He needs a girlfriend. Someone to love in unconditionally, and someone he's going to have fun with. I don't think he'll have much fun, being there with Hermione when she is the reminded that he's foolish; he should have listened to her, and then Sirius wouldn't be gone.

He wants a girl he has things in common with, someone that he can have fun with. He doesn't need someone making him obsess over homework and the prophecy. Hermione's his strict mother-figure.

Ginny is willing to be the girl he can go to Quidditch matches with; the one he can play Exploding Snap with. He needs Ginny like this. This, the way, that Hermione cannot be. He needs, not guidence, but a companion.
Well said, I couldn't agree more.

Ginny is willing to be the girl he can go to Quidditch matches with; the one he can play Exploding Snap with. He needs Ginny like this. This, the way, that Hermione cannot be. He needs, not guidence, but a companion.
But isn't that Ron's job, his place in Harry's life? They play Quidditch together, saw the Quidditch World Cup, and have matches of Wizard's Chess and Exploding Snap all the time. What's the point of having Harry's girlfriend be the one to suddenly have all the fun with Harry, since it would make Ron shrink out of Harry's life?
But why would it push Ron out of Harry's life? Sure Ron and Ginny have a lot of common points, it's not surprising given that they are siblings, the two youngest in a big family at that. Putting it bluntly Ron isn't "the girl" that Harry can do all these things with (unless Jo's hiding a really big plot twist for the last two books :scared: ).

Heron, on the other hand, already has Ron's, and Hermione's (in our opinions) and are just waiting for Hermione to give Ron the signal to ask her out.
Oh I think she's given plenty of signals, it's just that Ron isn't (or wasn't till the latter part of OOTP at least) receiving on that frequency. :eyebrows:

I'm sorry, but if you think for one second that Ron didn't want Hermione to go with Krum (whom, let me remind you, is his hero, the person he looks up to and admirers) because he thinks Krum is using her to get to Harry or using her at all, in fact, then you are totally lost with who Ron really is.
Precisely. The whole using her to get to Harry / Fraternising with the enemy was simply an excuse that Ron used to cover up his own jealosy IMO. Not that he realised it himself as I feel he didn't really understand just what he was feeling with regards to Hermione at that point and when challenged used the first trite excuse he could come up with.

Why don't we be honest and make a list of what we think our ship needs to sail?
Right then, let's have a look at your points. The Italics are Maraudergirl's and my replys are all IMO of course.

I feel Heron needs:

1) Ron to mature
Already happening toward the end of OOTP.

2) Hermione to make her feelings clear
I think her good luck kiss started that pretty nicely.

3) Hermione needs to make her feelings known to everyone
Not necessarily, they could when they are both a bit clearer on where they are going though.

4) Ron needs Harry's okay
I really don't think that'll be an issue. Sorry Harmonians but I don't feel that Harry has shown any interest in Hermione that can't be explained as any more than concern for one of your best friends.

5) Ron needs to ask Hermione out
Definately, though who's to say he hasn't already?

For Chocolate-
This I feel has yet to actively develop.

1) More interactiong (being around each other more often)
2) More talking and getting to know each other
3) Ginny's feelings to become deeper and more age appropiate
4) Harry to get a jolt in his stomach
5) Harry to get the courage to ask Ginny out**
Alternative 5) Ginny to get the signal to ask Harry out

**: He already has Ron's blessing.

None of which have yet to occur. As far as ships go I feel that this one is at a similar stage now as Ron / Hermione was at POA.

Be honest, now!!
Aww gee, do I have to. :eyebrows:

One of them would definitely have to make the move. I'll have to go with Harry this time as Ginny might be afraid of rejection.
That and him being the senior partner so to speak. His failed attempts with Cho would have at least given him some experience of how not to proceed and he always has Ron as a convinient source of "Ginny information" without having to fly completely blind.

[eRiN_GRyFFiN]

I guess then that we can say that canon is canon, yet behind the canon there can be more canon that we never knew existed! :lol: Seriously though, there are the constraints of what JK has chosen to reveal to us. We can only attempt to fill in the blanks as best we can using what evidence that we already have. That evidence generates differing opinions, but at least we have solid canon to form our opinions on... Phew! I don't even like the word 'canon' - there's no way that it's ever going to be a future Word Of The Week! :lol:

jajajaj..settled, then! :)

and a suggestion: word of the year! lol...or half-year (until july; from then on, canon would be different and everything will star again ;))

[AvadaKedavra]

Hi AK and everyone:)

I'm ready to read the 10 or more pages I've been missing..jeje.

But Avada, or anyone who wants to answer. I'm not new here, but I'm still having questions about canon. I mean. You say canon is anything direct from JKR, isn't it?

I understand that. But I'm still thinking of it, and...

My point is: this, as something written by JK herself, should be canon, isn't it? But here's my thought. We all know what happens after that moment. We all know Harry's not the weapon, though his reasoning makes perfect sense.

Imagine that we didn't know wether Harry's the real weapon. This paragraph would also be canon, wouldn't it? Incorrect, but canon.. or not?

I mean..how can we know that something that it's written now, it's the absolute truth?

I hope you can get me! lol...I'm nothing without a hot chocolate, so I'll back soon ;)

The scene you highlighted is canon. It's canon because JKR put down in writing that Harry thought he was the weapon. It doesn't matter whether what JKR says is true or not, it's actual, relevant material that JKR has come up with. Quotes are part of that too.

Just to clarify: Canon is not what is true. Canon is what comes direct from JKR-i.e. the books, her words and anything that she authorised (although this is getting onto shaky ground).

Stic

No worries. Actually, I think you are one of the few Harmonians that I have seen who (in my opinion) attempts to make accurate and coherent arguments using what I call "down-to-earth" material-i.e. the immediate text and the quotes, which is both more powerful and more fallible (as always). Kudos for that.

Your overall argument structure is sort of OK (take this as a compliment, trust me :p), but I'd like to ask you a serious question.

How does JKR's "I can't believe it" quote fit in the overall Harmonian philosophy that R/Hr is simply an 'obvious' decoy?

Anyone else is welcome to answer, too.

Signing out,

Avada

[FredFancier]

It's because it's still coming... we haven't reached the end of the book yet.
They're not even mature enough to realize it right now... frankly, it's not even needed now... their bond is very lovely like this and shows true love might very likely be an outcome of such bond once two people grow up

Doesn't mean it has to happen in this story... but really, I don't see many other options... Rowling could have easily written Ginny as a real "rival" to Hermione after COS, I was actually expecting that... she didn't.
And there really is no other girl we could consider as Harry's LI... I just honestly don't see many options... it's not as complex as seems.
But as there are also Ron's feelings written in, people don't want to go there... hehee...
I am personally not surprised by Ron's feelings or the possibility that Harry and Hermione might finally end up together... I knew Rowling would write something like that... I mean, it smelled like inner-trio-adult-tensions right from the beginning when these two boys got so friendly with this one girl.
hmm its still coming? Bit of a doublestandard don't ya think. You said JKR had the chance to develop Ginny. Yet for H/Hr (which she also has had the chance to develop) you say "it's still coming"

Ginny didn't need to be Hermione's rival. Ginny liked (or likes, depending on the person) Harry, and Hermione doesn't. No need for rivalry.
That is your opinion that Hermione is the only girl who could be Harrys LI. You seem to be a bit blinded by your preference- but JKR even said No to H/Hr dating, you may want to be at least open to other options.
2 boys getting friendly with 1 girl? When did Ron turn into 2 boys- because Harry doesn't like her.
Originally Posted by LordGrindelwald
Anyway, thanks, MPPMarauderGirl, dark_kneazle, FredFancier, firebolt004, for the encouragement.
no problem!, you make great posts
I don't think Ron really is in love with Hermione. I consider his feeling just as deep as Harry's for Cho. So Ron don't really likes Hermione that way. He may think he does but in fact he don't.
oh? can you point that out to me in canon?
Ron might. Each relationship is different. Ron and Harry are different, Cho and Hermione are different. Harry doesn't like Cho, but you never know- Ron could love Hermione until he dies.
Originally Posted by stic
Really?
The dominant male sexual hormone is Testosterone, a man needs as much of it as possible with basically everything he's doing. The more testosterone the more likely you win a fight, the higher you rank in a group, etc.
Now if somebody who's got less testosterone than you can regularly win over you because he is in a leading position of a system, say Hogwarts High inquisitor, your testosterone level will sink dramatically.
If you're closest female friend should then happen to create a secret DADA army for you to lead, your testosterone will climb again to high levels.
Got it?
erm..lets keep this family friendly
(and btw i 'don't got it')
Okay I obviously ship HHr I think in the final book HHr will get together I just think JKR does her research well & if it isn't
going to be HHr why did she have a Hippogriff that is the symbol
of Love and Impossibaty??
Hermione hated flying (and Sirius was there too and i find it scary with the thought of Sirius >> Hermione >>n Harry.... ::disturbed::
also Ron and Hernmione worked on the same hippogriff but she wasn't described as scared-nor was she screaming then.

[MPPMarauderGirl]

Whew, another ten odd pages to wade through. You guys are hard to keep up with sometimes but at least it's a holiday today so I can spend a few hours reading. Anyway I'll try to put things in order.


Personally I thought the opposite, the scene was there to forshadow the beginning of the tension between Ron and Hermione. A couple of interesting things on that from the interviews on the COS DVD. Firstly in the interview with Jo and Steve Klovis Jo mentions that Steve forshadows that potential relationship earlier than Jo had in the books. Secondly, though this is pretty irrelevant to the character's relationship it gives an interesting insight into the way that the age group interacts, Emma was really quite scared at the thought of doing that scene.


Actually it looks like a real possibility particularly as Dumbledore himself commented on Snape's relationship with James as being "much like" Draco's relationship with Harry.


Interesting interpretation. I always figured her reaction to Harry's arrival in the Burrow was a pretty blatant sign though.


Given that the celebrity comment came from Fred though it could be interpreted differently, after all Fred and George haven't always been the most sympathetic when it comes to their other siblings.


:grumble: Thanks Emily, now I've got that ruddy song stuck in my head. Nice picture in your sig by the way. :tu:


That and neither are suitable as romantic attatchments.


Well said, I couldn't agree more.


But why would it push Ron out of Harry's life? Sure Ron and Ginny have a lot of common points, it's not surprising given that they are siblings, the two youngest in a big family at that. Putting it bluntly Ron isn't "the girl" that Harry can do all these things with (unless Jo's hiding a really big plot twist for the last two books :scared: ).


Oh I think she's given plenty of signals, it's just that Ron isn't (or wasn't till the latter part of OOTP at least) receiving on that frequency. :eyebrows:


Precisely. The whole using her to get to Harry / Fraternising with the enemy was simply an excuse that Ron used to cover up his own jealosy IMO. Not that he realised it himself as I feel he didn't really understand just what he was feeling with regards to Hermione at that point and when challenged used the first trite excuse he could come up with.


Right then, let's have a look at your points. The Italics are Maraudergirl's and my replys are all IMO of course.

I feel Heron needs:

1) Ron to mature
Already happening toward the end of OOTP.

2) Hermione to make her feelings clear
I think her good luck kiss started that pretty nicely.

3) Hermione needs to make her feelings known to everyone
Not necessarily, they could when they are both a bit clearer on where they are going though.

4) Ron needs Harry's okay
I really don't think that'll be an issue. Sorry Harmonians but I don't feel that Harry has shown any interest in Hermione that can't be explained as any more than concern for one of your best friends.

5) Ron needs to ask Hermione out
Definately, though who's to say he hasn't already?

For Chocolate-
This I feel has yet to actively develop.

1) More interactiong (being around each other more often)
2) More talking and getting to know each other
3) Ginny's feelings to become deeper and more age appropiate
4) Harry to get a jolt in his stomach
5) Harry to get the courage to ask Ginny out**
Alternative 5) Ginny to get the signal to ask Harry out

**: He already has Ron's blessing.

None of which have yet to occur. As far as ships go I feel that this one is at a similar stage now as Ron / Hermione was at POA.

Be honest, now!!
Aww gee, do I have to. :eyebrows:


That and him being the senior partner so to speak. His failed attempts with Cho would have at least given him some experience of how not to proceed and he always has Ron as a convinient source of "Ginny information" without having to fly completely blind.

Wow, I'm surprised, pleased, amazed and overwhelmed that you agree with me so fully! (lol I think I'm going to explode because nobody could feel all that at once [according to Ron hehe])

I also think JKR is one to show that age doesn't necessarily mean anything. Ginny could be a year younger than Harry (not to mention her brother's best friend) and they could still be something.

Heck! My boyfriend's almost 17 and I'm 6 months from being 15. Age doesn't really matter to us, which he made clear before ("If I wanted to date someone, I would've dated them. But I didn't want them. I wanted you.") Not the point though, I'm really getting off topic (I like talking about him)

I'm eager to see what Harmony thinks they have to go through. I was trying to show that we have less to do. They need Hermione to show more emotion to Harry (if not fall for him) She needs to "get rid" of Ron. Harry needs to notice her... blah blah blah!


:angel:

[eRiN_GRyFFiN]

The scene you highlighted is canon. It's canon because JKR put down in writing that Harry thought he was the weapon. It doesn't matter whether what JKR says is true or not, it's actual, relevant material that JKR has come up with. Quotes are part of that too.

Just to clarify: Canon is not what is true. Canon is what comes direct from JKR-i.e. the books, her words and anything that she authorised (although this is getting onto shaky ground).

:tu: I think I'm starting to be in terms with the canon thing...

bed's calling..see you tomorrow!

*erin*

[AvadaKedavra]

No post for more than half-a-hour? *faints*

[IceKat55]

No post for more than half-a-hour? *faints*
Been lurking, in between peeks of Pirates of the Caribbean, currently on my tele. Johnny...preeeetty... :p

[HHrHippogriff]

Same here okay..................I am free to discuss any kind of ship cause I support all really HG HL RLL HHr RHr NG....I just hope though in the end HG isn't a final couple....Who sees that moment where Ginerva tells Harry,Hermione,&Ronald about her liking Dean and Ronald exploding like he did in book 4 like the scene at the Yule Ball in a form of Ron thinking RHr as Bro-Sis or just that he cares for his siter and loves Mione I think both really.............Tell me what you think...

[The Leprechaun]

But that connection is so thin that it is nearly, if not completely, nonexistant. We're stretching too far for a connection there, and in the wrong directions. If there is to be a connection made between Luna and Ron, it is a more solid one based in the book rather than in very, very loose word games. As I said earlier--Luna/Moon seems to refer most directly to Luna's personality.

Luna is the Roman name for the goddess known in Greek mythology as Selene, and sister to Helios. Luna and Helios were later supplanted by Atemis/Diana and Apollo, also siblings. They were not king and queen of the gods, either set. The stretch is too far, there.

Interesting to note, if Luna's Ancient counterparts were sibling to Apollo, then how you could link marriage between the Brother/sister combo of Apollo the Greek God of the Sun and Artemis the Greek Goddess of the Moon is beyond me.

[hermy_weasley2]

Same here okay..................I am free to discuss any kind of ship cause I support all really HG HL RLL HHr RHr NG....I just hope though in the end HG isn't a final couple....Who sees that moment where Ginerva tells Harry,Hermione,&Ronald about her liking Dean and Ronald exploding like he did in book 4 like the scene at the Yule Ball in a form of Ron thinking RHr as Bro-Sis or just that he cares for his siter and loves Mione I think both really.............Tell me what you think...

I think it's clear that Ron wants Harry and Ginny together, and JKR makes that clear with the "I thought Ginny fancied Harry" (or something to that effect) quote, the glance- on- the- train incident and the symbolism of Harry and Ron's chess game on the train. When Ron reacts like that about Ginny's relationship, He gets angry because he wants what's best for his sister, and in his opinion, that's Harry.

In GoF,though, Ron's about Hermione and Krum, but JKR never gives us any indication that Ron has "someone -- better" for Hermione like he does for Ginny. Here, Ron gets angry because Hermione's with someone besides him. And that's not nessicarily concern for Hermione (not trying to say Ron doesn't care about what happens to her); that's jealousy.

[The Garbage Man]

Harry and Ron's chess game on the train.

Ah, but the chess game ended up ruined when Ron threw the board up (The pieces of which were chased by Hedwig and Crookshanks) when Ginny told him that she was going out with Corner. In other words, Ron's plan was ruined...possibly...symbolism can be so vague!

[hermy_weasley2]

Ah, but the chess game ended up ruined when Ron threw the board up (The pieces of which were chased by Hedwig and Crookshanks) when Ginny told him that she was going out with Corner. In other words, Ron's plan was ruined...possibly...symbolism can be so vague!

Ah well, I was going for Ron's wishes and not nessicarily the outcome of H/G-when Ron pushes his queen towards Harry's castle. You're right, though, symbolism and foreshadowing can be so vague. It 's not fair. *stomps and pouts like a two-year-old*

EDIT: But wait, Ron turning over the chessboard could be symbolic of Ron's hopes of a H/G relationship being shattered. Did that sentence make sense? Oh well... And that's when Ginny tells him she's dating Dean.;)