Who Will fall in love with whom? v.42

[Crookshany]

Do you really see a scenario where Hermione will pay more attention to Ron than Harry? I can't see that with what Harry has in store for his immediate future. Harry already sees the Weasleys as his family, he doesn't need to marry into it for that to happen.

[FredFancier]

Hey how do you explain that just 15 days before announcing HBP date realease and say she had enough time to tinker it to her satisfaction she had written in her website that the baby was racing the book? It was a blatant disdirection by your standards, wasn't it?
she didn't
she said that the baby wouldn't have any affect on when the book came out
people just assumed that she meant otherwise.
I believe in a Harry/Hermione realtionship, go to http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials...-player01.shtml and read the article, it will change your perspective.
::shrugs:: I've read it. I thought it was very well written but I didn;t agree with any of it and I could find rebuttles for each of the points (I just don't have the time to rebuttle it in writing)

[Darynthe]

Harry would probably wouldn't take it well at all. He was seriously jealous during the first chapter of OoTP becuase Ron and Hermione were together. He thought they were at Ron's house and wondered why they were there without him. He so mad that he threw away both their gifts.
When they met he jumped down their throats twice shouthing that they had been TOGETHER, among other complaints. There your answer.

PS: FredFancier, LOVE your new sig!!! :rotfl:

[IceKat55]

Alright, I've got a question for all you Herons out there:

How would it happen? I mean, how will Harry find out about it? And after he does, how will he react? It *is* Harry's story, so even if R/Hr does happen, he's not gonna just brush it off (and if he did, I'm sure that wouldn't satisfy all the R/Hr shippers because then we, the readers, wouldn't get much insight into the relationship). And please don't say he's just gonna open his eyes to Ginny and then everyone's happy. How is this going to affect Harry?
I think Harry already knows, on some unconscious level, that R/Hr are going to 'happen'. He's even given us hints. And he already began spending more & more time away from them...we're told that their Prefect duties kept them very busy. Harry seemed to fare okay without them.

They're all growing up, and things change. They'll always be great friends, but will they always spend every waking moment together? Of course not...they don't now. Harry will strike out and make new relationships, with and without R/Hr. He's already started to. Something tells me he'll be okay...he's a pretty tough kid. ;)

And honestly, I don't see how much will immediately change within the Trio, except that Ron and Hermione will bicker a bit less, and be less confused about/with each other.

[FredFancier]

Harry would probably wouldn't take it well at all. He was seriously jealous during the first chapter of OoTP becuase Ron and Hermione were together. He thought they were at Ron's house and wondered why they were there without him. He so mad that he threw away both their gifts.
When they met he jumped down their throats twice shouthing that they had been TOGETHER, among other complaints. There your answer.
Doesn't he say something like "I supposed you two have been having a real laugh all holed up here together while I've been risking my neck
or something like that?
I haven't memorized the scene but he is mad mostly because he thinks they are having fun not thinking a tiny bit about him being attacked or having to spend the entire summer with the Dursley, and he thought they knew lots about Voldemort and it wasn't fair
etc

Besides Harry got over them being together in OotP in like a page. So even if he is angry with them being an item he'll get over it in maybe...2 pages
but I really don't think he'll care. Afterall, Harry doesn't even like Hermione in that way

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

Do you really see a scenario where Hermione will pay more attention to Ron than Harry? I can't see that with what Harry has in store for his immediate future.

Being concerned about Harry due to circumstances beyond his control doesn't necessarily translate into romantic affection. Besides (or perhaps as a case in point), I can't picture a scenario in which Ron isn't worrying about him right alongside her.

[IceKat55]

Harry would probably wouldn't take it well at all. He was seriously jealous during the first chapter of OoTP becuase Ron and Hermione were together. He thought they were at Ron's house and wondered why they were there without him. He so mad that he threw away both their gifts.
When they met he jumped down their throats twice shouthing that they had been TOGETHER, among other complaints. There your answer.
We've already covered this, so I won't go into it again...but we all know, full well, that Harry's issues went much, much deeper than "serious" jealousy of Ron & Hermione being together. And he showed no jealousy of them being together during their prefect time, did he. ;)

PS: FredFancier, LOVE your new sig!!! :rotfl:
I second that!! :clap:

[Duchessa-Of-Bellezza]

holy toleto yall move quickly.
I stand by what I said before. In that interview No really meant Yes. Afterall why wouldn't Harry and Hermione have a date?
Don't say because they aren't interested in each other. Rowling will write it. The Hero ALWAYS gets the girl whether u lot like it or not. So what if there isn't "build up" it'll happen.

Anyone besides me like Ron/Gabrielle?

edit- FredFancier theres something wrong with your sig..it says Ron/Hermione not Harry/Hermione
:rotfl:

edit again- can someone point me to some good H/Hr proof to use

[Darynthe]

Doesn't he say something like "I supposed you two have been having a real laugh all holed up here together while I've been risking my neck
or something like that?
I haven't memorized the scene but he is mad mostly because he thinks they are having fun not thinking a tiny bit about him being attacked or having to spend the entire summer with the Dursley, and he thought they knew lots about Voldemort and it wasn't fair
etc

Besides Harry got over them being together in OotP in like a page. So even if he is angry with them being an item he'll get over it in maybe...2 pages
but I really don't think he'll care. Afterall, Harry doesn't even like Hermione in that way

There are actually 4 instances of Harry mentioning that Ron and Hermione were together (and all those 4 in anger tones!) I counted them over the weekend. Very taletelling evidence of his lack of support of a closer R/Hr relationship. He got over it because he was included immediately and Hermione went to extremes to explain how much she disagreed with his being excluded.


The difference with a R/HR full fledged romance is that Harry would be permanently taken away from the trio. It would be now a (R/Hr)+ (H) situation which he probably couldn't take very well unless he had someone else with him too. Someone he truly loved and filled him in all the aspects he needs to.

[The Garbage Man]

PS: FredFancier, LOVE your new sig!!!

Movies as proof...I suppose it was only a matter of time. :evil:

[Darynthe]

edit again- can someone point me to some good H/Hr proof to use


I can send you to around 250 essays on Harmony, ie Harry/Hermione.

Go here:

https://home.comcast.net/~rferna5/HMS%20Harmony%20II.htm

and here:

http://www.talk.portkey.org/index.php?showtopic=10112


Is there anything specific you want to investigate?

[FredFancier]

Originally Posted by Darynthe
PS: FredFancier, LOVE your new sig!!!


I second that!!

Thanks IceKat,Darnythe
(I miss my old one though, I was so used to it it feels wierd without it)

edit- FredFancier theres something wrong with your sig..it says Ron/Hermione not Harry/Hermione

really?
let me check...nope Ron is spelled R-O-N not H-A-R-R-Y :rotfl:
(im just joking back at ya,(in case anyone comes after me with pitchforks))

The Garbage Man Quote:
PS: FredFancier, LOVE your new sig!!!



Movies as proof...I suppose it was only a matter of time. :evil:
I dont get it...are you taking the mickey?
or are you saying that I am using movies as proof that my ship will happen based on my avvy?

I don't consider movies canon, though JKR has script approval I do think that they wont mislead us 80,000 miles away from the books (Im not saying they are correct in all aspects, nor am I saying they are canon, I am simply stating that JKR has script approval and could say No or Yes to leaving things in)

[Darynthe]

We've already covered this, so I won't go into it again...but we all know, full well, that Harry's issues went much, much deeper than "serious" jealousy of Ron & Hermione being together. And he showed no jealousy of them being together during their prefect time, did he. ;)


He was close to them during their prefect time to see there was nothing to be jealous about!! :lol: Just let me point you as an example of this, to Ron's party
.
Harry finda that instead of being sharing the party with the rest of the people Hermione was asleep. And that as soon as she wakes up, she asks him if it would be ok to leave without participating cause she was so tired from knitting till very late the previous night.... Then *although* she's too tired to go to the party, she asks him to knit with her. I found that priceless. Why should be Harry jealous of them being together without him?
There's nothing to fear.

[Firebolt2004]

There are actually 4 instances of Harry mentioning that Ron and Hermione were together (and all those 4 in anger tones!) I counted them over the weekend. Very taletelling evidence of his lack of support of a closer R/Hr relationship. He got over it because he was included immediately and Hermione went to extremes to explain how much she disagreed with his being excluded.


The difference with a R/HR full fledged romance is that Harry would be permanently taken away from the trio. It would be now a (R/Hr)+ (H) situation which he probably couldn't take very well unless he had someone else with him too. Someone he truly loved and filled him in all the aspects he needs to.


I don't agree at all. Harry's friendship with Ron and Hermione is not based on forming a love relationship with either one of them and Ron and Hermione are with Harry to help him with all that he has to deal with. I don't see their relationship changing if Ron and Hermione get together. Ron and Hermione are still going to be Harry's friends and will help him. And as it was mentioned by someone else earlier, Harry was not angry because he thought Ron and Hermione were together kissing or going on dates, he was angry because he knew they were together doing something important and keeping him out of it.

[Tzigone]

If Ron was really in LOVE with hermione if he was a true man he wolud off said something.

He is not a man, he is a boy. And anyone can be afraid.

[AvadaKedavra]

If you accept for a moment the hypothesis I've written in response to Icekat55 about how Jo might feel a little uneasy with some of her interview tricks;
you'd have a Jo being guilty of having it made really really hard to work the question out.

See, how much more likely would you consider Harmony to be without all Jo-interview quotes? If we took them all away I would then rather agree with Jo that it wouldn't be super-tough to work out whom Hermione loves.

But if Jo has done what I think she's done in some interviews, then no, I don't think Jo should be amazed that many haven't worked out the right answer.

That is the fairest and most honest assessment that I've seen on JKR's quotes from any Harmonian. Let this be the 'benchmark' for any aspiring Harmonian, because it establishes common ground between the ships; a battlefield which we can fight upon. We can then debate the quotes themselves directly, instead of getting into a legal dispute.

Last post I made the distinction between yours and mine respective interpretations:

Stic= teasing
AK= being genuine

Call them two respective hypotheses. Here is the first reason why I think my hypothesis is the correct one (I'll do a reason per post):

Interestingly the answer partially lies in the post-OOTP quotes, where JKR stopped her [ENTER trickery/or/hinting]. Here's the one asking about Harmony:

hermione 3: Will Harry and Hermione will be together? *sigh*
JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

and here is the one asking about Heron:

Will Ron and Hermione ever get together?

Well—[Laughter.] What do you think? [Audience member: I think they will]. I’m not going to say. I can’t say, can I? I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I’m going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one

If you compare those two quotes directly, you can see the difference in the tone. In the Harmonian quote, JKR is rather harsh to us and displays exasperation:

but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

The ?! combined with the word surely indicates strong exasperation at the question: They should know by now. Why are they asking me???

Whereas in the Heronian quote, JKR is apolgetic and appeals to us:

I can’t say, can I?

as if she is really genuinely sorry that she can't answer the question but she has to keep her mouth shut for our sake, her sake and the story's sake. She appeals to us, in an almost-apolgetic tone.

I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I’m going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one

She tells us that she has given us enough material to work with to work it out, in a calm and without any trace of exasperation. She is much more welcoming to the nature of the question- perhaps because the questioner has got it right.

This is why I think JKR was being genuine when she said:

"I can't believe some of you haven't worked this one out, but I'm not going to answer because it would spoil the arguments which I enjoy."

The red part is directed to the Harmonians, the yellow part is directed to the Heronians. Matches up perfectly with the other 2 quotes.

Signing out

Avada

P.S:

I was intrigued by your hypothesis on why JKR suddenly shut her trap. My take on it is that I think it's because she started to realise how much people were paying attention to her ship-related quotes and decided to keep quiet to build up hype and not give the game away completely.

A problem that I perceive with your hypothesis is that it doesn't make any sense for JKR to "promote" R/Hr just before the release of OOTP, supposedly the H/Hr "bible". Any thoughts?

[Tzigone]

I may be the lone shipper thinking this but I don't think Harry will be too upset. He may be upset for like a page but thats it IMO.
Besides Neville, Ginny and Luna were brought closer to Harry, so they can keep him company.


I agree with you. I think he'll be sort of "I should be happy for them" but thinking what does this mean for him? They've been a trio for a long time and they're family to Harry (IMO) and now he's wondering if this'll end that. But it won't. I think he might feel a bit excluded occasionally, but he'll still have them there when he needs them and then he'll hopefully have someone too. The romance does not diminsh the friendship, and he'll realize that.

[Darynthe]

A challenge to everybody. Post part of the lyrics of a song that represents an aspect of your ship. Or against the contrary ship. :) The thread is not really very lively lately. I think it would be fun.

[Deevo]

Doesn't Harry have enough to deal with without throwing a relationship into the mix? Besides, there's nothing interesting about a H/Hr ship. It'd be much more interesting for Harry to start dating someone else and see how that person deals with his relationship with Hermione. I think that Ron and Hermione are supposed to mirror the James/Lily ship. If this is the case, the ship won't come to fruition until year 7.
Indeed I think that Harry may be reluctant to get heavily involved with anyone for just that reason. That and the fact that anyone Harry has romantic feelings for is going to do a quick climb up Voldemort's hit list and after the events at the end of OOTP Harry is going to be reluctant to put anyone else into that kind of danger.

Despite this Jo has already said that there will be a little romance for Harry this year so it looks like someone is going to break through to him and I suspect that someone is going to be a little redhead. :eyebrows:

Oh, another thing...
Hermione's far to nice to Ginny (they're obviously friends outside of Ginny being Ron's little sister) to like Harry. The fickle and catty nature of females is to detest any girls that show interest in the guy you like. It's impossible to genuinely be their friend and still like the guy. Hermione isn't a fan of Cho, but that's because she thinks Cho's flakey.
Interesting interpretation. And to follow that logic who is the one girl that Hermione has been 'catty' toward so far? Fleur, but only after Ron started looking at her 'that way', allbeit somewhat under the influence. In fact Hermione has been extremely complimentary and helpful toward Harry with Cho after she became aware that he had feelings for her. She may well decide to play the third wheel again in the next two books.

As for her thinking Cho was flakey I'm not so sure. Where did you get that impression from?

Of course you forget one thing. Harry has never been one tiny bit interested in Ginny. Why would Hermione act the same way towards her she does with Cho?
Cho is the one Harry was interested in.
How is the way Hermione acts toward Cho really that different to the way she acts toward Ginny? Obviously she knows Ginny better from the amount of time they've spent together both in and out of school while Cho is not only older than Hermione but also in a different house and in a quite different peer grouping. Still she's doesn't appear (to me at least) to be the least bit negative toward Cho.

The fact that Ginny, like other girls her age, used to have a crush on The Boy Who Lived isn't a sufficente reason for Hermione to act wrongly to her. She's no competition.
That's assuming Hermione feels that way about Harry. So far we haven't seen any evidence of feelings between them that can't be explained by a deep friendship.

Of course I didn't forget that. Harry hasn't ever been one tiny bit interested in any girl, save for Cho.

Harry doesn't know Ginny, not very well, not yet. But as they begin to get to know each other better, if that's Rowling's intention in bringing Ginny into the spotlight in Book 5, then who knows what will happen between them? We already know he sees her, physically, in a positive light. He's always used very flattering descriptives for her.
Add to that he started to get an appreciation of her strength through OOTP with various revelations.

Alternately, Hermione gets nothing but "bushy haired" and "big-toothed". Not overly appealing, eh? :) Also, Harry has known her for much, much longer. If he were going to develop even a tiny romantic spark for her, don't you think we'd have gotten a hint of it by now? :huh:
Wouldn't you just. :eyebrows:

Alternately, Hermione gets nothing but "bushy haired" and "big-toothed". Not overly appealing, eh? :) Also, Harry has known her for much, much longer. If he were going to develop even a tiny romantic spark for her, don't you think we'd have gotten a hint of it by now? :huh:
but alas.... there HAVE been sparks that could hint at a future romance.
There have been indications of a relationship between them, that's true, but nothing that can't also be interpreted as a deep friendship. Likewise the evidence is also present that a) Ron and Hermione have deeper feelings toward each other and b) Harry simply isn't interested in Hermione in a romantic way.

I can only interpret by my own experiences and I'll say now that my two best friends are a married couple and I love them both dearly but their relationship with each other has no effect on the way I feel about either of them.

But how will Harry and Ginny get to know each other better. They spend very little time together. And that shows no sign of changeing.
Hasn't it already been said that HBP will see Harry's shortest stay with the Dursleys? We don't precisely know where he'll be spending the rest of the break but it's a pretty safe bet that it'll be close to the Weasleys.

There are no little hints at all.
On the contrary, there are plenty of subtle hints, particularly in the way Ginny has been written as being seen by Harry.

And Ginny is over him as well.
Ginny is over him or over her celebrity crush? It's only stated that she's "given up on him" which was at the time when Harry was earnestly looking at Cho anyway.

And there are 2 books to go and it wont be spent on Harry and Ginny getting Closer.
Not primarily, no. However, didn't Jo say there would be a little romance for Harry?

She is not part of his inner circle.
On the contrary, she's very much a part of his inner circle, outside the trio. She was, after all, one of the DA's 'MOM six'.

Im sorry we have had the trio for 5 books. 1 Failed mission does not make the other 3 part of his circle.
We've covered this already. While the end results of the mission resulted in casualtys and Sirius' death it also achieved a fair bit too.
1. Voldemort's return was made public.
2. Voldemort was prevented from getting the prophecy which was his aim.
3. Several of Voldemort's foot soldiers were taken out, maybe temporarily, but taken out nonetheless.
Some not insignificant achievements and when balanced objectively against the losses (much as we all mourn Sirius) something of a tactical victory. Certainly anything but a failure.

As for Harry's inner circle well the trio are obviously the core but surrounding them are Ginny, Neville, Luna, Fred and George all of whom have made significant contributions to Harry and his aims through all of the books. Add to that the DA members and Harry, with help, has built the nucleus of a pretty effective 'Junior OOTP'.

Question for you: What do you think will happen if Harry and Ginny do not get romantic during Quidditch practices? Do you think that they will have time in book 7 to really really really know each other and fall in love? :)
Maybe they will, maybe they won't, we'll just have to wait for the books to know for sure. Personally I think the two are well matched but as I've said time and time again, I don't write the books so I don't know. Whatever happens I still have faith in Jo to spin a good yarn regardless.
(Translation - spinning a yarn is Aussie slang for telling a story.:) )

Just a little detail and it's that we could think that Ron and Hermione would have ended up dating after sharing so much time in their prefect duties without Harry around... but they don't. :rotfl:
We see the books from Harry's perspective, how do we know? Maybe they are a bit ambivolent about discussing it with Harry, that would be a pretty normal teenage reaction don't you think?

Alright, I've got a question for all you Herons out there:

How would it happen? I mean, how will Harry find out about it? And after he does, how will he react? It *is* Harry's story, so even if R/Hr does happen, he's not gonna just brush it off (and if he did, I'm sure that wouldn't satisfy all the R/Hr shippers because then we, the readers, wouldn't get much insight into the relationship). And please don't say he's just gonna open his eyes to Ginny and then everyone's happy. How is this going to affect Harry?
How will Harry find out about it? I honestly don't have a clue though I think at some level he already suspects something and has done as far back as the Yule Brawl, maybe even before. As to how he's going to react well we have covered this ground a few pages back (have a look around here (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?p=1656743#post1656743)) but I'll just reiterate a bit.

I think problem would be with Hermione and Ron's reluctance to talk to Harry about their relationship given their perception of his volatile nature (or alternatively in the aftermath of OOTP not wanting to intrude on his grief). Given that and Harry's nature, though he'll probably be much subdued in the aftermath of OOTP, he'll probably be quite annoyed with them for not telling him given that they are his best friends.

Still the relationship may not be out in the open till later on in the book by which time Harry might be indulging in a little romance himself. :eyebrows:

Of course having Harry 'springing' them or alternatively having Ron 'spring' Harry and Ginny could lead to some comical scenes. ;)

[kamplified]

My biggest disappointment would be if JK paired H/G and R/H because I think it would also undermine Harry’s story and become the Weasley family adventures, but that is my opinion.

I wouldn't be disappointed if she paired H/G and R/H, but I think its totally unlikely to happen. Now, from what I've read of most of this thread it seems like most of the Heronians are also Chocolatians (did I spell that right?) and they think that they'll get married and that everyone will become a big happy family.

I just think this is too sugary, and it would also be unrealistic if a Ron and Hermione relationship is true love (and I, being a H/R shipper, think it is) and a Harry and Ginny relationship is too. I mean, what are the odds that too best friends (Harry and Ron) find their true loves when they're still in school?

[jennday]

I think Harry already knows, on some unconscious level, that R/Hr are going to 'happen'. He's even given us hints. And he already began spending more & more time away from them...we're told that their Prefect duties kept them very busy. Harry seemed to fare okay without them.

Totally agree. In the scene where Ron and Hermoine are fighting after the Yule Ball and Harry walks in on them, wait let me find my book lol... I'll start from after the bit where Hermoine tells Ron he should've asked her first...

(Goblet of Fire, Australian paperback edition, p376):

'Well,' he spluttered, looking totally thunderstruck, 'well - that just proves - completley missed the point-'
Harry didn't say anything. He liked being back on speaking terms with Ron too much to speak his mind tight now - but he somehow thought that Hermoine had got the point much better than Ron had.

I think in OotP, Harry is not jealous that he thinks they are 'romantically' together without him, I think he is angry that they were together having fun, while he was stuck in Privet Drive being miserable. I think, though, when the time comes that Ron and Hermoine are together (;)), Harry will be a bit disconcerted for a bit. But he will get over it. It isn't like they are betraying him, as such, I think he'll just want to know how this affects the friendship. And, like has been said before, he has Ginny, Neville and Luna to hang with, if R&H want time alone.

[Messed]

'Well,' he spluttered, looking totally thunderstruck, 'well - that just proves - completley missed the point-'
Harry didn't say anything. He liked being back on speaking terms with Ron too much to speak his mind tight now - but he somehow thought that Hermoine had got the point much better than Ron had.

You know, I never quite did get the point myself. I know that sounds dumb, but in this instance, we have Harry thinking what he thinks Hermione is thinking (wow that sounds confusing). So, are we supposed to infer that Harry thinks Hr->R?

[Alfonzo]

You know, I never quite did get the point myself. I know that sounds dumb, but in this instance, we have Harry thinking what he thinks Hermione is thinking (wow that sounds confusing). So, are we supposed to infer that Harry thinks Hr->R?
Basically, he thinks that Hermione seems to have taken a step in the right direction in recognising that Ron really wanted to go with her to the ball. Harry has realised that Hermione seems to have a better understanding of the situation than Ron. :)

I think, though, when the time comes that Ron and Hermoine are together (;)), Harry will be a bit disconcerted for a bit. But he will get over it. It isn't like they are betraying him, as such, I think he'll just want to know how this affects the friendship. And, like has been said before, he has Ginny, Neville and Luna to hang with, if R&H want time alone.
There does seem to be the perception that some Herons think that there would be no complication to a HR/R relationship. This is not the case - Harry may feel slightly jilted for a while, but this is normal and shouldn't be taken as an argument to go against a Hr/R relationship. Harry would get over this just as he has overcome fights with his friends before.

[Messed]

Basically, he thinks that Hermione seems to have taken a step in the right direction in recognising that Ron really wanted to go with her to the ball. Harry has realised that Hermione seems to have a better understanding of the situation than Ron.

But can we really get that conclusion? I mean, it's what Harry thinks Hermione thinks, right? So no one can really know what Hermione meant since it's from Harry's POV and she never came out and directly said anything (a pattern I've noticed when it comes to Hermione's love life: it's a big secret, really).

[Corbin Dallas]

Jo as Dumbledore did as I believe just that in PoA with McNair. Remember: Harry, Hermione and Buckbeak were hiding at the edge of the forbidden forrest; McNair finds the hippogriff is gone and says the grounds and the forrest should be searched. His first guess where to find what he's looking for is dead on.
Jo as Dumbledore 3 steps him. DD first raises doubt in Mcnair about his initial, correct guess: "do you really think the thief has led (Buckbeak) away on foot?"
Then, Jo offers McNair an alternative direction to aim his suspicions at: "Search the skies if you will" ; and the final 3rd step takes place inside McNairs head, he knows the convincing reason why to search the skies rather than the grounds: Obviously, a thief of a hippogriff would fly away on the beast. Dumbledore has laid the groundwork to step 3 when he did step1 ("do you really think the thief will he thief has led (Buckbeak) away on foot?"
So, step 3 takes place inside McNairs head, the convincing reason why to aim his suspicions at the alternative direction Dumbledore has offered him doesn't need to be repeated by DD.

It's in essence the same trick as in my example. All three steps are needed if you need to trick somebody who's first guess is dead-on.

1.Raise doubt in the initially suspected direction
2. Offer an alternative direction
3. Give a convincing reason why it would be totally wise to aim the suspicions at the alternative (phony) direction. That reason needs a back-door. In my first example: Yes, that fat Slyth-kid may really have looked like he'd have stolen the food rather than you but nonetheless it was you who took it.
In the PoA example DD's reason is perfectly convincing, 99,999999% of all Hippogriff thieves would really avoid trying to run away with the beast they've stolen but the 2 hippogriff thieves McNair was looking for had done just that!

Moving on to Katie Couric's interview with Jo: Katie guesses about Harry's romance and asks Jo:


"Any snogging with Hermione?


1. Jo: "Hermione and Harry? Are you sure?


Katie: No, I'm kidding.


2. Jo: "Ron and Hermione.....


3. Jo: ....I would say have...there's more...tension there.
Stic, stic, stic, stic,
you know the one real flaw behind this arguement, right? I think you're real clever to involve Jo as Dumbledore but as she says he speaks for her with bits of wisdom like "the choices we make..." and "Remember Cedric when choosing what is right and what is easy...". For your Buckbeak example to work Dumbledore in the story, as a character would have to know that Harry, Hermione and Buckbeak were in the forrest and not on the grounds. Now at this point Dumbledore hasn't suggested they go back in time yet, so for him to know would mean Dumbledore is omnicient which in Order you can plainly see he is not. Dumbledore's suggestion to search the skies was a logical one, after all where would you expect a Hippogriff, a creature that can fly, would go? Like I said I think it's interesting but for Jo to write this scene this way in 1998-1999 for the purpose you suggest, she would have to know in 2003 that Couric would ask that question for it too work and unless I'm mistaken, Jo's not omnicient when it comes to what Reporters will ask. Check out Mrs. Bombadil's sigggy, I believe she has a link to when the actual question was asked and Jo doesn't look all pink in the face as to being found out, Like Hermione supposedly did in Goblet when she suggested that she and Harry could meet with Ron at Hogsmeade during Harry and Ron's estrangement. That would have been a good juxtaposition but oh well, I guess we'll just have to take Jo's word for it,
Hermione and Ron have more tension than Harry/Hermione :tu: :evil: :tu: ,
get me ;) '-
CD

[Alfonzo]

But can we really get that conclusion? I mean, it's what Harry thinks Hermione thinks, right? So no one can really know what Hermione meant since it's from Harry's POV and she never came out and directly said anything (a pattern I've noticed when it comes to Hermione's love life: it's a big secret, really).
That is true, but we can also see for ourselves that Hermione does seem to be able to read Ron rather well as a character - in this instance she hadn't missed the point, Ron had. Hermione in effect told him to sieze the opportunity, instead of dithering. In fact, I think that Hermione wants Ron to 'pull his socks up' as it were, and be more bold. In the incidents where she wants him to back her up (when acting out prefect duties), he backs down. She seems disappointed about this.

[Messed]

Stic, stic, stic, stic,
you know the one real flaw behind this arguement, right? I think you're real clever to involve Jo as dumbledore but as she says he speaks for her with bits of wisdom like "the choices we make..." and "Remember Cedric when choosing what is right and what is easy...". For your Buckbeak example to work Dumbledore in the story, as a character would have to know that Harry, Hermione and Buckbeak were in the forrest and not on the grounds. Now at this point Dumbledore hasn't suggested they go back in time yet, so for him to know would mean Dumbledore is omnicient which in Order you can plainly see he is not. Dumbledore's suggestion to search the sjies was a logical one, after all where would you expect a Hippogriff, a creature that can fly, would go? Like I said I think it's interesting but for Jo to write this scene this way in 1998-1999 for the purpose you suggest, she would have to know in 2003 that Couric would ask that question for it too work and unless I'm mistaken, Jo's not omnicient when it comes to what Reporters will ask. Check out Mrs. Bombadil's sigggy, I believe she has a link to when the actual question was asked and Jo doesn't look all pink in the face as to being found out, Like Hermione supposedly did in Goblet when she suggested that she and Harry could meet with Ron at Hogsmeade during Harry and Ron's estrangement. That would have been a good juxtaposition but oh well, I guess we'll just have to take Jo's word for it,
Hermione and Ron have more tension than Harry/Hermione ,
get me '-
CD

I've seen this argument a thousand times and it always turns into people assuming that Harmonians are using that specific scene as evidence for their ship. Usually, a "movies-as-evidence" argument ensues. But in reality, the scene is just an example of the 3 step deception method. (sorry, slightly off topic, but I really don't want one those arguments to happen again.)

Also, no one can be quite sure if, in the scene, Dumbledore knows what's happend to Buckbeak. The way the scene is set up, the audience is led to believe that Dumbledore does indeed know that Buckbeak is at least in the forest, hiding. If you listen closely, you can hear DD make the suggestion "Don't you think I should sign too? [or something along those lines] and then, "I have a very long name." Then he directs Fudge's attention to something else (can't remember what but it seemed like some kind of plant or something) before Fudge turns and realizes that BB is missing.

So the audience is given the impression that DD is stalling so that someone has enough time to hide the hippogriff.

That is true, but we can also see for ourselves that Hermione does seem to be able to read Ron rather well as a character - in this instance she hadn't missed the point, Ron had. Hermione in effect told him to sieze the opportunity, instead of dithering. In fact, I think that Hermione wants Ron to 'pull his socks up' as it were, and be more bold. In the incidents where she wants him to back her up (when acting out prefect duties), he backs down. She seems disappointed about this.

Thanks for clearing that up! :)

[Corbin Dallas]

I've seen this argument a thousand times and it always turns into people assuming that Harmonians are using that specific scene as evidence for their ship. Usually, a "movies-as-evidence" argument ensues. But in reality, the scene is just an example of the 3 step deception method. (sorry, slightly off topic, but I really don't want one those arguments to happen again.)

Also, no one can be quite sure if, in the scene, Dumbledore knows what's happend to Buckbeak. The way the scene is set up, the audience is led to believe that Dumbledore does indeed know that Buckbeak is at least in the forest, hiding. If you listen closely, you can hear DD make the suggestion "Don't you think I should sign too? [or something along those lines] and then, "I have a very long name." Then he directs Fudge's attention to something else (can't remember what but it seemed like some kind of plant or something) before Fudge turns and realizes that BB is missing.

So the audience is given the impression that DD is stalling while someone has enough time to hide the hippogriff.

Wasn't referring to the movie at all and in the book, before they all come out of Hagrid's hut, Dumbledore tells McNair that he has to sign too, I thought as a rule movies weren't considered canon, I like to point out that the Directors, actors and such are pushing Hr/R and that Jo has endorsed it but if you look at the text for this example this 3 step deception only works if Dumbledore in the Story is omnicient, which we know he isn't and you also have to believe that Jo wrote this scene speciffically for interviews, again something I doubt entirely, get me ;) '-
CD

[courtly]

But can we really get that conclusion? I mean, it's what Harry thinks Hermione thinks, right? So no one can really know what Hermione meant since it's from Harry's POV and she never came out and directly said anything (a pattern I've noticed when it comes to Hermione's love life: it's a big secret, really).


I have to say, that is exactly what I was thinking! We never know the extent of any relationship Hermione has. For all we know Hermione could be married with four kids, the way she talks about her private life. She's always writing these wonderfully long rolls of parchment to Krum, but never says a word about them to anyone. She just rolls her eyes and keeps on writing. I'm not saying she's still together with Krum...or if they were together at all actually.

I've also wondered if Ron and Hermione would even tell Harry? I'm not exactly sure this is cannon, but maybe they'd be all secretive(sp?) as to not upset Harry.

*little idea*

Harry: [to Ron and Hermione] I've got something to tell you...

Ron: We've got something to tell you.
Hermione: You got first, Harry.

Harry: I've got to kill Voldermort before he can kill me. There is a pretty big prophecy about the whole thing.

Ron: Bloody hell, Harry! That's amazing..

Harry: Now..what did you want to tell me?

Hermione: Oh nothing! Nothing special..


Okay, so that was lame...but what can I do. It's ten to ten and I'm tired.

[jopotter]

Yeah, I think Harry is just waiting for Ron and Hermione to happen. Harry knows that Ron likes Hermione, it's so obvious to us readers as well that Ron likes Hermione.
Christmas before last Sirius gave me a knife that'll open any lock,' said Harry. 'So even if she's bewitched the door so Alohomora won't work, which i bet she has-'
'What do you think about this?' Hermione demanded of Ron and Harry was reminded irresistably of Mrs. Weasley appealing to her husband during Harry's first dinner in Grimmauld Place.
We are reading from Harry's point of view and this part about Ron and Hermione reminding him of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley wasn't part of the conversation. It was mentioned for us readers. In Harry's mind, Ron and Hermione remind hm of Mr. and Mrs. Weasley. They remind him of an old married couple.

What shippers always argue about is Hermione's feelings right? But think about this-
He climbed into the common room and found Ron and Hermione having a blazing row. Standing ten feet apart, they were bellowing at each other, each scarlet in the face.
"Well, if you don't like it, you know what the solution is, don't you?" yelled Hermione; her hair was coming down out of it's elegant bun now, and her face was screwed up in anger.
"Oh yeah?" Ron yelled back. "What's that?"
"Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!"
Ron mouthed soundlessly like a goldfish out of water as Hermione turned on her heel and stormed up the girls' staircase to bed. Ron turned to look at Harry.
"Well," he sputtered, looking thunderstruck, "well -- that just proves -- completely missed the point". Harry didn't say anything. He liked being back on speaking terms with Ron too much to speak his mind tight now - but he somehow thought that Hermoine had got the point much better than Ron had.
The point here I think is "Next time there's a ball, ask me before someone else does, and not as a last resort!" which implies to me, that if Ron had asked her properly she would've said yes, which means to me that she HAS feelings for Ron and she wanted to go with him. So if Harry understood that Hermione wanted to go the ball with Ron and would've gone if only Ron asked her properly at first, then the only clueless one here is Ron which is pretty funny because between Hermione and Ron, Ron's actions are the most obvious ones.
Add all that with what Jo said:
Q: Is it just me, or was something going on between Ron and Hermione during the last half of Goblet of Fire? I love your books, by the way, and two of them I've read straight through cover to cover in under 24 hours.
JK: Well done on the reading speed! Yes, something's "going on," but Ron doesn't realize it yet. Typical boy

Let's think logically:
1) Something's going on between Hermione and Ron
2) Ron doesn't realize it YET
So, question is , if something is going on between the two of them and Ron (whose actions shows that he likes her, it's so obvious to us readers) doesn't realise it, then who realises that something's going on between the two of them? Hermione! (Harry to for that matter) Girls mature faster than boys and I think Hermione is more matured than both Harry and Ron. The poor girl is just waiting for Ron to mature and make the first move.
'Is that what she was doing?' said Harry, as Ron dropped on to the bench opposite them and pulled every dish within reach towards him. 'Well, wouldn't it have been easier if she'd just asked me whether i liked her better than you?'
'Girls don't often ask questions like that,' said Hermione.
Hermione won't ask Ron "Do you like me?" because it is just not done. She's waiting for Ron to make the first move.


"...And it might have been a good idea to mention how ugly you think I am too," Hermione added as an afterthought.
"But I don't think you're ugly," said Harry, bemused.
Hermione laughed.
"Harry, you're worse than Ron.... Well, no, you're not," she sighed, as Ron himself came stumping into the Hall splattered with mud and looking grumpy.
Why is the fact that Ron is worse than Harry affecting her? If she didn't like ron in a romantic sense, why would she care if Ron's worse than Harry? The 'sigh' shows that it does matter to her and Ron being clueless is affecting her.

[OpheliaSometime]

I just think this is too sugary, and it would also be unrealistic if a Ron and Hermione relationship is true love (and I, being a H/R shipper, think it is) and a Harry and Ginny relationship is too. I mean, what are the odds that too best friends (Harry and Ron) find their true loves when they're still in school?
Maybe it's because I'm a sucker for happy endings, but I tihnk it's very possible for both Harry and Ron to find their true loves while in school, after all, both Harry and Ron's parents found each other while at school. It is possible. Especially if you've got enough nerve. :p

By the by, I'm new to the thread, so let me just come right out and say that I'm 100% sailing aboard both the HMS Heron and the HMS Chocolate. And I must say that when it comes to R/Hr, I'm utterly bewildered that there are people who don't see it. I mean, Jo didn't publish a different set of books than the ones I read, right?

[LilypadLollipop]

Harry: [to Ron and Hermione] I've got something to tell you...

Ron: We've got something to tell you.
Hermione: You got first, Harry.

Harry: I've got to kill Voldermort before he can kill me. There is a pretty big prophecy about the whole thing.

Ron: Bloody hell, Harry! That's amazing..

Harry: Now..what did you want to tell me?

Hermione: Oh nothing! Nothing special..



::shrugs:: it could happen
how would ron and hermione tell harry?
no bloody idea, not one idea.
i mean, if they told him, he might get all mad and slowly seperate himself from the group for a while. but then again, if he did that, he could get together with Luna or Ginny :p i don't think they'd tell him for a while, cuz he'll probly be really sensitive in the sixth book.
o, and to Messed (i think it was messed...) about which song suits our ship, i think "Fallin" by Alicia Keys is good (even though it's not really my kind of music). i think fury posted the lyrics on the song forum.

[SQUIB182]

I think Dudly might have a girl friend, "he's sooo popular" maybe the girls want the famous heavy weight? girls??LARGE girls

[Messed]

o, and to Messed (i think it was messed...) about which song suits our ship, i think "Fallin" by Alicia Keys is good (even though it's not really my kind of music). i think fury posted the lyrics on the song forum.

Sorry, wasn't me. :)

[LilypadLollipop]

oops... :blush: sorry about that...

[GrangerGal]

Totally agree. In the scene where Ron and Hermoine are fighting after the Yule Ball and Harry walks in on them, wait let me find my book lol... I'll start from after the bit where Hermoine tells Ron he should've asked her first...

(Goblet of Fire, Australian paperback edition, p376):

'Well,' he spluttered, looking totally thunderstruck, 'well - that just proves - completley missed the point-'
Harry didn't say anything. He liked being back on speaking terms with Ron too much to speak his mind tight now - but he somehow thought that Hermoine had got the point much better than Ron had.

I think in OotP, Harry is not jealous that he thinks they are 'romantically' together without him, I think he is angry that they were together having fun, while he was stuck in Privet Drive being miserable. I think, though, when the time comes that Ron and Hermoine are together (;)), Harry will be a bit disconcerted for a bit. But he will get over it. It isn't like they are betraying him, as such, I think he'll just want to know how this affects the friendship. And, like has been said before, he has Ginny, Neville and Luna to hang with, if R&H want time alone.


I also think one of the reasons we did not see as much evidence for Heron in OotP is b/c of this exact idea. Harry knew something was going on in GoF but after Cedric's death, Harry became more self involved. Harry was too angry, upset, confused, stressed to notice what was going on with Ron and Hermione any more. He was still carefree in GoF, but by the start of OotP, Harry had become disillusioned, cynical, and angry. (Now I love Harry and I think he has every right to feel these things right now. Enough people feel these things that have not been through the things Harry has!) Anyway since we see things from Harry's point of view we only see what he feels or even what he wants to see. Harry is a bit angry with Ron and Hermione and the world, therefore he is not seeing the love between Ron and Hermione and so we aren't seeing it either. (Is this making sense? I am exhausted)

[Miss ERB]

*off Topic*

what is going on..noboby's talking in this thread. Its seems pretty dead today...

[snoopy_bombay]

*off Topic*

what is going on..noboby's talking in this thread. Its seems pretty dead today...

It won't be dead anymore

In an interview jkr said that harry would be experiencing a little romance.Now If h/g or h/l were to happen it would't be a little romance as jkr would need to develop these characters as they are pretty distant right now.So it is logical to assume h/hr to happen because then jkr wouldn't have to devote a lot of pages to it.

[LilypadLollipop]

what is going on..noboby's talking in this thread. Its seems pretty dead today...
of course it's dead, the people who start "scandals" are gone *yawns*
so... anyone have a bad day today?...

[Miss ERB]

It won't be dead anymore

In an interview jkr said that harry would be experiencing a little romance.Now If h/g or h/l were to happen it would't be a little romance as jkr would need to develop these characters as they are pretty distant right now.So it is logical to assume h/hr to happen because then jkr wouldn't have to devote a lot of pages to it.


Developing of Characters has nothing to do with that fact that Harry will have a "little romance" First while shes devlopes Ginny's character( ok..ok..possibly Luna but I doubt she'll be Harry's love interest. But who am I to say that?)

While she developes their Characters they will progress and first they will be better friends..and then that will develope into a romance. And the little romance part can very well be true, just because we dont know about Ginny or Luna as much as Hermione doesnt mean they get ruled out. Hermione is already so close to Harry and no sparks have flown once so unless JK has something outstanding that happens that helps the two suddenly become romantic towards eachother I wouldnt count on it. They are very, very close friends who have been through numerous amounts of things..whats left for them to see eachother in a romantic light? Hermione dating other boys doesnt irk Harry? But it irks Ron.

[AsKPeeVes]

In an interview jkr said that harry would be experiencing a little romance.Now If h/g or h/l were to happen it would't be a little romance as jkr would need to develop these characters as they are pretty distant right now.So it is logical to assume h/hr to happen because then jkr wouldn't have to devote a lot of pages to it.
Umm If it were a H/hr romance it wouldnt be "little" because they would frist have to delvelop feelings for each other and
Ginny and luna are probaly going to become a bigger part of the story in book 6 why would Jkr go into even bring Luna in if it werent some what important...

[snoopy_bombay]

Umm If it were a H/hr romance it wouldnt be "little" because they would frist have to delvelop feelings for each other and
Ginny and luna are probaly going to become a bigger part of the story in book 6 why would Jkr go into even bring Luna in if it werent some what important...

true jkr wouldn't bring luna in without a purpose.But the purpose may not necessarily be romance

[HedwigOwl]

That would have been a good juxtaposition but oh well, I guess we'll just have to take Jo's word for it,
Hermione and Ron have more tension than Harry/Hermione :tu: :evil: :tu: ,
get me ;) '-
CD

Saw that JKR interview as well, but I didn't take it to mean that "tension" meant "romance". Just, well, tension. That's just the way the two of them have always interacted. JKR also did an interview after the release of the PoA movie and referred to unintentional foreshadowing by the director. If that's true, then it seems to me that in the end, it will be Harry and Hermione.

[LilypadLollipop]

true jkr wouldn't bring luna in without a purpose.But the purpose may not necessarily be romance
ah... but it may be.
i think j.k. brought luna either in for harry's romance, or for someone he can talk to. not sure why ginny tho. maybe just for the chamber of secrets thing, or to be harry's romance. it's all so confusing. :p

[Corbin Dallas]

true jkr wouldn't bring luna in without a purpose.But the purpose may not necessarily be romance
Yup, Luna seems connected to Harry via "death", beinf able to see Threstrals, hearing the voices from the veil, having lost her mom, and Jo's assertion that Luna is the Anti-Hermione in Order, being that Luna is a believer based on faith as opposed to knolledge like Hermione, I think, that is my idea about Luna is that her ideas or beliefs will influence Harry about death, kind of like what Dumbledore said, to the well organized mind Death is just the next great Adventure. To me I think Dumbledore is impling that knolledge alone isn't enough, you have to have some faith too, get me ;) '-
CD

[snoopy_bombay]

ah... but it may be.
i think j.k. brought luna either in for harry's romance, or for someone he can talk to. not sure why ginny tho. maybe just for the chamber of secrets thing, or to be harry's romance. it's all so confusing. :p

It's all very confusing.I would understand if jkr made h/g because Ginny has been around for quite a While though I don't quite support it.But if h/l happens:upset: .I mean she has been introduced so late and harry doesn't quite trust her(though it is changing subtly)

[HedwigOwl]

ah... but it may be.
i think j.k. brought luna either in for harry's romance, or for someone he can talk to. not sure why ginny tho. maybe just for the chamber of secrets thing, or to be harry's romance. it's all so confusing. :p

I think Luna's there for Ron....she's very taken with him, even when he's being obnoxious. I think Ron's going to like the unconditional attention and lack of criticism.

[Corbin Dallas]

Saw that JKR interview as well, but I didn't take it to mean that "tension" meant "romance". Just, well, tension. That's just the way the two of them have always interacted. JKR also did an interview after the release of the PoA movie and referred to unintentional foreshadowing by the director. If that's true, then it seems to me that in the end, it will be Harry and Hermione.
you're talking about the COS DVD interview where Jo says Chris, the director foreshadowed some feelings that Jo doesn't do until later books, before Jo said this, Chris at the Chamber Press release in Brittain talked of how the scene was portrayed, that Hermione was happy to see Harry and would hug her best friend but not Ron because that's where the tension is, if you go to mugglenet, the book 6&7 link and possible couples, you have to click on the R/Hr link and Chris talks about it there.
***So Chris says that Ron and Hermione have tension, Jo confirms it later and goes onto say that Ron and Hermione have more tension between the two as opposed to Harry and Hermione and Couric's question was about snogging in a romantic sense and Chris was talking about the Crush developing between Hermione and Ron, so from just this we should have a very good idea where Jo is going with the Romance, Hermione and Ron, get me ;) '-
CD

[snoopy_bombay]

Yup, Luna seems connected to Harry via "death", beinf able to see Threstrals, hearing the voices from the veil, having lost her mom, and Jo's assertion that Luna is the Anti-Hermione in Order, being that Luna is a believer based on faith as opposed to knolledge like Hermione, I think, that is my idea about Luna is that her ideas or beliefs will influence Harry about death, kind of like what Dumbledore said, to the well organized mind Death is just the next great Adventure. To me I think Dumbledore is impling that knolledge alone isn't enough, you have to have some faith too, get me ;) '-
CD

I agree with that.Especially thanks to the conversation at the end of OOTP we know why luna is there.Also during the conversation harry pities luna.Now I don't think pity is a very good foundation for a romantic relationship.It'll be like hermione and neville.Hermione helps neville taking pity on him.While n/hr might happen it is very unlikely.I would give h/l as much of a chance as n/hr.

[AsKPeeVes]

I recommend this essay by McBeth its on Moonlight: http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1417732&postcount=123

[Corbin Dallas]

I agree with that.Especially thanks to the conversation at the end of OOTP we know why luna is there.Also during the conversation harry pities luna.Now I don't think pity is a very good foundation for a romantic relationship.It'll be like hermione and neville.Hermione helps neville taking pity on him.While n/hr might happen it is very unlikely.I would give h/l as much of a chance as n/hr.
See there is this theory that Hermione will be Harry's psychomp, that is a guide to the underworld, and as I get the theory and think there are some good points to it, sorry no link, don't remember where I read it, probably at New Clues just don't remember sorry again, but Hermione seems to be too, well too much like someone who wouldn't think going to the underworld is possible, however Luna...
CD

[The Leprechaun]

You should know as much as I know that this isn't the same. I did never talk to JKR, I never met her. And I might add that in case I had ever the opportunity to talk with JKR in person I did get a whole different impression as to see her in TV or read Interviews of her. Because I can ask her myself, I can clear things up myself, I can hear her voice, her expression her body language so I get a by far better picture as any Interview which was cut, quoted wrongly, wrongly asked ever could.
To this all comes in fact I did believe in case of God him more as the bible because he wasn't the author.

And the video can't tell you that? That makes no sense, unless you are getting a translated version. With a video you can get her hear voice, see her body language, and see her expression. Yeah, you can't ask her yourself, but this is the literal next best thing. As for sound only JKR interviews, you can get her voice and her expression. This should give you some hint. Secondly, while the interview is cut it is not quoted wrongly (in the actual video) and I don't see how Katie wrongly asked a question that was her question. Next, just because she didn't ask the questions you want to be asked shouldn't give you a vetoing license on you ability to add the interviews to your resources of information. While God wasn't the author, JKR is. She is the God of the Potterverse and what she says goes in the books (for the most part *see SS and not the original PS*). To me the fact that a significant number of Harmonians don't count the interviews in their resources, seems like they are admitting that the interviews make Heron the much more likely ship in their minds so discounting them is the fastest way to avoid them and get them out of their minds.

P.S. This is not meant to offend, but just a musing.

It's not the same but in case you already do that anyway. I refuse to accept your claim that her quotes are just as valid as canon (that's by far different).

And why do you do this? Is it because subconciously you see that they make Harmony weaker? Is it because you don't believe her and think this is just a big Red Herring that she has carried into real life? Why, I'm seriously curious?

[HedwigOwl]

you're talking about the COS DVD interview where Jo says Chris, the director foreshadowed some feelings that Jo doesn't do until later books, before Jo said this, Chris at the Chamber Press release in Brittain talked of how the scene was portrayed, that Hermione was happy to see Harry and would hug her best friend but not Ron because that's where the tension is, if you go to mugglenet, the book 6&7 link and possible couples, you have to click on the R/Hr link and Chris talks about it there.
***So Chris says that Ron and Hermione have tension, Jo confirms it later and goes onto say that Ron and Hermione have more tension between the two as opposed to Harry and Hermione and Couric's question was about snogging in a romantic sense and Chris was talking about the Crush developing between Hermione and Ron, so from just this we should have a very good idea where Jo is going with the Romance, Hermione and Ron, get me ;) '-
CD

Actually, no, that's not the interview. It was a very recent one, after PoA. She said when she watched PoA, she had goosebumps because some scenes "foreshadowed" what would happen in the next book(s), though she was sure it was unintentional by the director. And in the Couric interview, it was JKR who brought up the "tension" comment. I'll be very surprised if Hermione winds up with Ron. It'll either be Harry (if he lives), or no one, in my opinion.

[Corbin Dallas]

You know Angua9 brought up this point, probably not in these words but how can you seriously disregard author interpretaion of her own work? Seriously how can you? The thing with Jo is she is really honest and really wants us to know that, check out her site and what she says if you don't believe me, after reading the transcripts and seeing some of her interviews and hearing others, there's no doubt in my mind that Jo is being honest with us, no dount at all, get me ;) '-
CD

[The Leprechaun]

I aklso think that there's a difference. The books are written and you can't write anything else instead. If you refuse to accept the books, Sirius could live again or Harry's parents would be still alive.

Except the books haven't stated that people can't come back entirely (though I will admit it has come close), that was JKR telling us this. So, here you are using something that is based on JKR quotes and applying it to the books.

[Corbin Dallas]

Actually, no, that's not the interview. It was a very recent one, after PoA. She said when she watched PoA, she had goosebumps because some scenes "foreshadowed" what would happen in the next book(s), though she was sure it was unintentional by the director. And in the Couric interview, it was JKR who brought up the "tension" comment. I'll be very surprised if Hermione winds up with Ron. It'll either be Harry (if he lives), or no one, in my opinion.
So you think she was talking Ship here, well you should know that Cuaron and the crew admitted to many more R/hr moments were left on the cutting room floor because they didn't want to spoil Goblet and there was the graveyard thatwas left out and Lupin talking about Lily as opposed to James and Sitius telling Lupin that he lives in his heart and Dumbledore's in dreams speach and a host of other non shippy moments Jo could have been talking about, my stuff you got quoted there was directly related to shipping, so I think you might want to prepair yourself for book 7, get me ;) '-
CD
PS
Except the books haven't stated that people can't come back entirely (though I will admit it has come close), that was JKR telling us this. So, here you are using something that is based on JKR quotes and applying it to the books.
Dumbledore did say at the end of Goblet that no spell can awake the dead, think that's pretty close...

[snoopy_bombay]

Thanks for the link AsKPeeVes.Yes it's a good essay,but like all essays it has it's flaws.First up,the author says that luna reassures harry during the thestral situation.However It doesn't take all the weight of harry's stomach does it?I mean look at the time during christmas when hermione removes harry from buckbeak's room and force him for a chat with herself,ron and ginny.That certainly makes him feel better.Then how about the library scene where harry tells ginny about his desire to talk to sirius.Doesn't she totally reassure him it can be done.That certainly makes harry feel light-headed.
Next the author says that luna can get close to harry because she believes him.Don't ron,hermione,ginny,etc. believe him as well?Ernie mcmillan believes harry.So does that mean harry should hook up with him?
Then comes the conversation at the end of OOTP.I've already replied to that somewhere.
The moral of the story is that moonlight doesn't have as much depth as harmony or chocolate.

[green_ginevra]

You know Angua9 brought up this point, probably not in these words but how can you seriously disregard author interpretaion of her own work? Seriously how can you? The thing with Jo is she is really honest and really wants us to know that, check out her site and what she says if you don't believe me, after reading the transcripts and seeing some of her interviews and hearing others, there's no doubt in my mind that Jo is being honest with us, no dount at all, get me
Yep, CD, I getcha ;) anyway...I think that's a good question. She SAYS stuff, for gosh sakes. She wrote the books, I think she'd know! I don't think she'd lie, either. I don't understand where the JKR lies stuff comes from. In my opinion, basically every answer she's given that is supposed to be so 'ambiguous' goes hand in hand with what we already know from the books. I fail to see how that is so tricksey, or indicates in any way that she may be lying. If she says something in an interview that people twist so that it goes completely against what was happening in the book, it's no wonder some people think she's lying.

[McBeth]

First of all, thanks for the compliments on my essay. :)

Thanks for the link AsKPeeVes.Yes it's a good essay,but like all essays it has it's flaws.First up,the author says that luna reassures harry during the thestral situation.However It doesn't take all the weight of harry's stomach does it?

Actually, knowing that Luna too saw the thestrals did make him feel better, judging by the dropping of his spirits later on in the book when he thought she might be lying about being able to see the thestrals too.

I mean look at the time during christmas when hermione removes harry from buckbeak's room and force him for a chat with herself,ron and ginny.That certainly makes him feel better.

If Hermione made Harry feel better, than JKR certainly didn't take the time to mention it, did she? It was Ginny, if anyone, who made him feel better in that scene.

Next the author says that luna can get close to harry because she believes him.Don't ron,hermione,ginny,etc. believe him as well?Ernie mcmillan believes harry.So does that mean harry should hook up with him?

The point is, Luna wasn't afraid to declare her allegiance to Harry, although she barely knew him. She was the first to do so, and proved her loyalty to him.

The moral of the story is that moonlight doesn't have as much depth as harmony or chocolate.

Funny that JKR ended the part of the chapter where Luna made Harry feel better with, "She walked away from him, and as she walked away from him, he felt the terrible weight in his stomach seemed to lessen very slightly."

I really don't see JKR's reasons to make that scene so dramatic if there wasn't a special kind of depth to the relationship.

[snoopy_bombay]

You know Angua9 brought up this point, probably not in these words but how can you seriously disregard author interpretaion of her own work? Seriously how can you? The thing with Jo is she is really honest and really wants us to know that, check out her site and what she says if you don't believe me, after reading the transcripts and seeing some of her interviews and hearing others, there's no doubt in my mind that Jo is being honest with us, no dount at all, get me ;) '-
CD

Although I would jump from Mount everest than admit it,I agree with you on that one.

[AsKPeeVes]

Thanks for the link AsKPeeVes.Yes it's a good essay,but like all essays it has it's flaws.First up,the author says that luna reassures harry during the thestral situation.However It doesn't take all the weight of harry's stomach does it?I mean look at the time during christmas when hermione removes harry from buckbeak's room and force him for a chat with herself,ron and ginny.That certainly makes him feel better.Then how about the library scene where harry tells ginny about his desire to talk to sirius.Doesn't she totally reassure him it can be done.That certainly makes harry feel light-headed.Next the author says that luna can get close to harry because she believes him.Don't ron,hermione,ginny,etc. believe him as well?Ernie mcmillan believes harry.So does that mean harry should hook up with him?Then comes the conversation at the end of OOTP.I've already replied to that somewhere.The moral of the story is that moonlight doesn't have as much depth as harmony or chocolate.Well IMO the most important scene where Harry talks to a Girl(ginny,Hermione,Luna) would be at the end of OOTP I mean he had went threw a lot not even Dumbledore could help him he was heart broken and confused and in loss he hadnt known is parents and Sirius was as close to them as it gets but Luna had lost her own Mom.She helped him a lot in that scene even more then i think ginny did during christmas.. And McBeth didnt mean that ron,hermione,ginny,etc dont belive in him it just they cant realy relate to him too much right now and plus she can belive in things that may seem impossible or nological to Hermione or Ginny. Ahh I cant finish replying right now because I have to leave but i'll try..
Ohh and Ernie mcmillan only belived Harry not Belived in...
Another great essay By Mcbeth about the end of OOTP:http://www.cosforums.com/showpost.php?p=1396038&postcount=977

[snoopy_bombay]

Actually, no, that's not the interview. It was a very recent one, after PoA. She said when she watched PoA, she had goosebumps because some scenes "foreshadowed" what would happen in the next book(s), though she was sure it was unintentional by the director. And in the Couric interview, it was JKR who brought up the "tension" comment. I'll be very surprised if Hermione winds up with Ron. It'll either be Harry (if he lives), or no one, in my opinion.

I really don't think that the foreshadowing bit could be about romance.I think many herons agree with that as well.

[rowansjet]

Alright, I've got a question for all you Herons out there:

How would it happen? I mean, how will Harry find out about it? And after he does, how will he react? It *is* Harry's story, so even if R/Hr does happen, he's not gonna just brush it off (and if he did, I'm sure that wouldn't satisfy all the R/Hr shippers because then we, the readers, wouldn't get much insight into the relationship). And please don't say he's just gonna open his eyes to Ginny and then everyone's happy. How is this going to affect Harry?Not until the last few chapters, or even the second last chapter of HP7 will they actually get it together, I reckon. I wouldn't mind them in book six, but i get the feeling JKR's really gonna string it out. But they'll be acting way more couply over the next two books. How Harry will find out, if he isn't at least a bit aware of what's going on already: What if he's dead by the end?

...

Nah! :p I think at this point that R/Hr will be so obvious that Harry, dunce though he is, will no for sure what's going on. (The reason R/Hr won't get together in the very last chapteris because it will be needed for something more important than R/Hr, although i'm sure he will reflect on it)

BTW FredFancier, I like the new siggy, although I have seen it before. I can't think who had it though. Can i host your last one?

ETA:I really don't think that the foreshadowing bit could be about romance.I think many herons agree with that as well.No I don't think it is either. I mean, would Heron really give JKR goosebumps?

(Oh, be quiet Harmonions, I meant it wouldn't really be surprising and strange that Heron's in there! :p )

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

I think Luna's there for Ron....she's very taken with him, even when he's being obnoxious.

Apart from the DoM (and don't get me started on what I think the "Loony Lovegood" incident does to R/L's already slim chances of working), has Luna ever actually seen Ron obnoxious? He wasn't particularly obnoxious on the train, if at all; he wasn't obnoxious before the game...come to think of it, have they had any interaction besides that?

Say what you like about the viability of Ron's crush on Hermione, it's got five years of pretty comprehensive observation and exchange behind it. All Luna has to go on is that Ron has a sense of humor and doesn't like dancing.

I think Ron's going to like the unconditional attention and lack of criticism.

Disregarding how unhealthy this relationship model is for the moment, I cannot for the life of me figure out what in canon supports this interpretation of Luna. Yes, she has a calmer disposition and a more open mind than other people. But just because she doesn't feel the need to scream her differences of opinion doesn't mean she's never going to have them, or ignore them so she can worship "Ronald." Just look at the one-sentence description of her during the final Quidditch game. Who's she supporting? Hint: it's not Gryffindor.

[snoopy_bombay]

The interesting thing though is why did luna mention ron going to the yule ball with padma and also saying that she wouldn't have minded not dancing?

[The Leprechaun]

Of course, but she should've known the problems that would've arisen had Harry asked Cho if they could meet Hermione in Hogsmeade. Hermione has been Harry's friend for 5 years, she should know that he isn't the most tactful person. And was there any point of not telling Harry that they were going to meet Rita Skeeter for the interview? I don't see any. I doubt Hermione didn't trust him not to keep a secret.

Again with the "she should have known", this is a point that is looking down the stairs and not climbing them. Hermione should not have to baby step Harry through a relationship. That and there is no reason she should have known that Harry was going to mess up the date. She doesn't explain herself, this happens in PS/SS, CoS, GoF, and I'm pretty sure that it occurs in PoA. So, if it is a common thing for her to do, then why are you so suspicious. This argument kills your claim that she isn't out to sabotage Harry and Cho's relationship. So, which is it? Is Hermione stepping out of the way or is she passively sabotaging the relationship? Harmonians say that she is stepping out of the way and then say that she isn't sabotaging the relationship, yet that is a contradiction.

Note: This may not include you, but it seems like it does.

Another note: Among Hermione's observations concerning Cho, she mentioned that Cho has been doing badly at Quidditch lately for the Ravenclaw team. How would she know that? Has she been hanging out at Ravenclaw practices now? The only way for her to know that is through the grapevine. Everything else is debatable; but I still say that's way too in-depth to be a passing analysis.

Good Point and I shall concede you that, I will now ponder that (not that this shakes me and my shipping preference).

Really? Because from what I've seen of Heron, they're tossing around the same GOF quotes around and JKR interview excerpts. And they've added the kiss on the cheek before the Quidditch match as well now from OOTP. Ready to sail, that one.

Yes, really. Because that is the current topic and that is the reason why you see it more, but there is much more to Heron then the JKR quotes and GoF. There is a lot of OotP and GoF in their whole, the quotes (which are canon) are also very helpful, and it doesn't hurt to have movies pointing that way either. Heron is very big (not that Harmony isn't) and also built on much more than you will seem to admit.

[rowansjet]

I think Luna's there for Ron....she's very taken with him, even when he's being obnoxious. Apart from the DoM (and don't get me started on what I think the "Loony Lovegood" incident does to R/L's already slim chances of working), has Luna ever actually seen Ron obnoxious? He wasn't particularly obnoxious on the train, if at all; he wasn't obnoxious before the game...come to think of it, have they had any interaction besides that?

Say what you like about the viability of Ron's crush on Hermione, it's got five years of pretty comprehensive observation and exchange behind it. All Luna has to go on is that Ron has a sense of humor and doesn't like dancing.
I think Ron's going to like the unconditional attention and lack of criticism. Disregarding how unhealthy this relationship model is for the moment, I cannot for the life of me figure out what in canon supports this interpretation of Luna. Yes, she has a calmer disposition and a more open mind than other people. But just because she doesn't feel the need to scream her differences of opinion doesn't mean she's never going to have them, or ignore them so she can worship "Ronald." Just look at the one-sentence description of her during the final Quidditch game. Who's she supporting? Hint: it's not Gryffindor.Nice little post you've got there Rowena. Yes, I find it deplorable that so many people can reccomend a relationship like the one described.

I totally missed that line you found about Luna, that's something to put in the 'things it took several readings to catch' thread.

[The Leprechaun]

What I dont understand in the examples u've shown there all pretty much not examples of romance (yes ok they may imply it or the potential is has to develop) but if those are considered examples, how bout the tons of times Hr has grabbed Harry's arm or the countless times she has hugged him? Why are these "momments" overlooked, each time with the same remark "because their friends"

I realize what you are saying and agree that they could be hints of a future romance, but I don't see most of it being anything more than Harry and Hermione being friends (this is my opinion and not necessarily what I think as fact, as it is not a fact just an veiwpoint on what is written) All of your evidence is also the potential of a romance, nothing is certain until it gets written or at least read by us.

[mrs_bombadil]

I've been busy with the holidays and upon returning I see rowansjet's siggy link that ties in nicely with something that I was thinking about earlier:

Why I Hate The JKR/Paxman Interview Shipping Quote:
BECAUSE IT'S NOT ABOUT SHIPPING!
See Why Here

I too have always argued that this is not necessarily (heck, probably isn't) about shipping. If you read a lot of JKR's interviews, you'll see she often segueways from one subject to another in the longer answers. In that one she not only says "theories" and not relationships, but there are many other elements to consider as well.

Now, if you go to the BBC's source page for this interview:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/2998596.stm

you'll see that the short intro they've written for a clip (on to that in a moment) of part of that response, says:

In the interview she also commented on the speculation there's been about how the Harry Potter series might end and what will become of Harry and his friends.

People who have full access to the entire interview (and not just what aired) have summarized her statement without discussing "couples" at all.

Here is the full answer from the transcript:

JEREMY PAXMAN: Unlikely pairings? Not Hermione and Draco Malfoy or anything like that?
JK ROWLING: I don't really want to say as it will ruin all the fan sites. They have such fun with their theories ... and it is fun, it is fun. And some of them even get quite close. No-one has ever - I have gone and looked at some of it and no-one's ever ... There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed because it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it. So you know, I would be pretty miffed after thirteen or fourteen years of writing the books if someone just came along and said I think this will happen in book seven. Because it is too late, I couldn't divert now, everything has been building up to it, and I've laid all my clues.

The red text is what you can see and hear for yourself here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/cta/progs/newsnight/03/nnrowling5.ram

As with a few of her other comments, I think you can get a better feel for what she's talking about by watching her expressions, gestures and body language as well as listening to her tone and emphasis.

There is one thing that if anyone guessed I would be really annoyed because it is kind of the heart of it all. And it kind of explains everything and no-one's quite got there but a couple of people have skirted it.

She does not come across to me there the way she does when she's answering other "shippy" questions...she jokes, smiles, and is more "cat that swallowed the canary" at those times, IMO.

So, how does a future romantic relationship "explain" it all when explanations certainly harken back to the events that occur before the books start?

And, I don't understand how this quote is supposed to be good for any established ship because if you buy in to the interpretation that she's referring to an unlikely future pairing...then NOBODY has guessed yet.

At most I can come up with a surprise duo from the past...as being logical.

[The Leprechaun]

Dumbledore did say at the end of Goblet that no spell can awake the dead, think that's pretty close...

Just curious, but what chapter and what conversation surrounds it? Not that I don't believe you, just want to know.

[mrs_bombadil]

Just curious, but what chapter and what conversation surrounds it? Not that I don't believe you, just want to know.

I know you didn't ask me, but here it is:

"Which means," said Dumbledore slowly, his eyes upon Harry's face, "that some form of Cedric must have reappeared."
Harry nodded again.
"Diggory came back to life?" said Sirius sharply.
"No spell can reawaken the dead," said Dumbledore heavily. "All that would have happened is a kind of reverse echo. A shadow of the living Cedric would have emerged from the wand . . . am I correct, Harry?"

Chapter 36 GoF

[Corbin Dallas]

Just curious, but what chapter and what conversation surrounds it? Not that I don't believe you, just want to know.
well as Mrs. B just covered it..
so as for Ron and Luna and why I think she's still in to him, one Ron was really rude to Luna in the carriadge ride up to Hagwarts when she slammed Hagrid and she was still staring at himlike watching a midly interesting television program, sorry don't have the exact text, and though Luna was wearing her hat for Ravenclaw, I suspect she was the one who wrote the GOod Version of "Weasley is our King", no real solid canon just a hunch from the 3broomsticks meeting, that's all. Luna has no problem with people calling her "loony", it's when they outright slam her ideas and/or interested in her Weasley when she has a problem, or being rude when all she is trying to do is being helpful, get me ;) '-
CD
PS
as to how Hermione knew so much about Cho, again easy one folks Ginny, think it was an accident that there's this behind the scenes thing going on between these two? An unspoken, unsaid rilvary maybe, funny Michael goes to comfort Cho, hmmm

[daz]

I come on in the morning to hope we have had some kind of break though. But sadly still no luck.

[phantomwitch]

I haven't been on since the last thread, and everything still sounds the same...

goodnight and happy shipping to all!

[haha]

I think Ron's going to like the unconditional attention and lack of criticism.
I have to agree with Rowena on this. I really can't see Luna acting like that around Ron. The only little bit she interacted with him on train isn't really a good foundation for a happy relationship. The other times that they were together, she didn't really address only him many times.
I come on in the morning to hope we have had some kind of break though. But sadly still no luck.
I guess that depends on your viewpoint. For me, i think there were a lot more Herons than there were before, so i think i'll keep at it :D Although i have to agree that with phantomwitch...
I haven't been on since the last thread, and everything still sounds the same...
BUT maybe by badgering the same arguments over and over no matter how tiring it may be :sigh: , we'll have more converters to the chocolate and Heron ships ;)

[chocolate brown]

I think Luna has kind of a soft spot for Ron, and Ron in the beggining doesn't like her, but later he's alright with her.
Remember when Harry and Hermion were in the Forbidden Forest, and the Umbridge got carried away by the kentaurs, and when Ron, Ginny, Neville and Luna came, Luna asked Ron who's Grawp and he paciantly replied: "Hagrid's baby brother, but never mind that now...." and he was nice and polite to her.

I think the two of them will end up tohether, and as for the Ron/Hermione stuff.
Well, first of all, childhood crushes never last. And if Jo decides for the two of them to end up together the book will seem very imature and childish.
And, isn't Hermione in a way with Krum. I mean, she never really had a crush on Ron, but she doesn fancy "Vicky" a lot.
And Ron is over her, and he proves that by the conversation they had when Hermione was writing that huge letter to Viktor.
And, despite all that after all Hermione and Ron are completely different people.
Ron has a sence of humor (un like Hermione) and he would never push Harry into something he doesn't want to do (again un like Hermione).
Hermione is a know it all, and she always "rubbs it in" to Ron and she ALWAYS pushes Harry to do something that's not really a good idea, and it turns out in the end Hermione was WRONG!
Remember how she told McGonagall about Harry's new broom and how it might be jinxed?
And then McGonahall took it away. If you ask me, I think that was totally un nesecary.

So, in my opinion Hermione will end up with Viktor, Ron and Luna will end up together, and about Harry......well that I don't know since he is the "hero" of the book, and you can never know what nice twist Jo can make to his love story.

P.S. As about Ginny and Neville.....no way. Ginny doesn't like Neville very much.

[Niffler_8882]

Although I'm not really too sure what ship I'm sailing on when it concerns Harry (could be HMS Chocolate or HMS Moon), I have some clues for HMS Moon!!
Remember their little interaction in the Room of Requirement (RoR) with the mistletoe? When Luna realized that there was a mistletoe over their heads? Well, well well, how do you suppose things end up in the RoR? People wish them to be there! Am I wrong? In my opinion, the only way an item can appear in the RoR is for someone to want it to be there. I know I know, you must be protesting now! "DOBBY PUT IT THERE!" I hear you protest. But did he really? We have no proof for that, excep Harry's thoughts or speculations which dont always happen to be correct (ehem..Sirius). I personally dont think it possible for Dobby to enter a room that has been created in the mind of Harry and change it so that the next time Harry enters it (thinking it up once again) it looks different. Possibly, Harry subconciously wanted the X-massy spirity to exist in that room...who knows? Anyway, i'm getting side tracked.

What i believe is that either Harry or Luna (or both) wanted that mistletoe to appear over their heads (possibly subconciously) and so it did. I'm guessing Luna might have as she mentions it is there and Harry jumps away. However, that doesn't mean that Harry's feelings for Luna can't have grown since then..right?

[FlyingPhoenix]

And the video can't tell you that? That makes no sense, unless you are getting a translated version. With a video you can get her hear voice, see her body language, and see her expression. Yeah, you can't ask her yourself, but this is the literal next best thing

No, a video can't tell this because it's cut, and only the best or interesting parts are in. This is called census something somebody sees everyday on TV or on DVD and so on.
A side this would you care why you feel the need to assume that I get a translated version?

Secondly, while the interview is cut it is not quoted wrongly (in the actual video) and I don't see how Katie wrongly asked a question that was her question.

A normal good reporter did ask again but Katie and a lot of other US-Reporters are in my opinion not even allowed to call themself reporter. What they do is moderating but not reporting.
A side this the dear Good-Shipper only care to quote and tape this single question, nobody cares that the whole interview was dump.

Next, just because she didn't ask the questions you want to be asked shouldn't give you a vetoing license on you ability to add the interviews to your resources of information.

Dump questions get usually dump answers. This interview is one of the lowest I know. Anyway I didn't say you aren't allowed to use this information, if you like to know you can if you wish use a predict by some fortune-teller for R/Hr as resource I care really not much about that. Still I stand by my say that Interviews aren't as valid as canon.

To me the fact that a significant number of Harmonians don't count the interviews in their resources, seems like they are admitting that the interviews make Heron the much more likely ship in their minds so discounting them is the fastest way to avoid them and get them out of their minds.

Oh please, I can very well use the interviews and in the past I did more as once argue how I interpret this interviews but mind you I don't waste my time with something I know can be turned so perfectly its not even funny.
I can already imagine how another so called "reporter" or a fan at best a R/Hr shipper asks JKR after HBP something like "Didn't you say Harry and Hermione will always stay platonic/friends?" you know what JKR answers? "I didn't say that."
So much for your interpretation of her quotes. Each one can be turned in future with a clear answer, esp if JKR can freely speak. She said herself she dodge questions and mind you she really does that.
I have argued against this quotes much more often as you have even wrote them down, don't come me with something like this interviews proof Heron faster as canon if they ever did why I'm still here and say its H/Hr? Because I interpret both for H/Hr yet I'm not that stupid to use interviews as main evidence for my ship. Every serious debater would rather debate canon than an interview, everybody who got at least enough sense to know that even "God" like authors (though most authors aren't at all God in their storyverse) are humans and can change their mind, can say "I didn't say that", will not use an interview like a law. You are terrible mistaken to think when JKR writes H/Hr that you can argue with her wheter she said in your opinion H/Hr will always remain platonic or not. She'll just do it.

And why do you do this? Is it because subconciously you see that they make Harmony weaker? Is it because you don't believe her and think this is just a big Red Herring that she has carried into real life? Why, I'm seriously curious?

I'm doing this because its a fact that an interview isn't canon. Even possitive H/Hr quotes aren't more valid as canon. And there exist possitive H/Hr quotes.
This is really simple just like Ice is cold, so is an Interview not canon. Its just like that. Call it information, call it whatever you like but not canon because her interviews are simply not canon. That's really easy to understand.

[courtly]

Scholastic Online Chat -- Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley? In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind. ;-)

Time Pacific Interview -- I would say Harry has flaws and failings. [...snip...] And what about Ginny? Poor Ginny, languishing in love for Harry, and he's merrily asking out other girls right under her nose! But that's just a boy thing."

BBC "Red Nose Day" Online Chat--Will Harry ever notice the long-suffering Ginny Weasley? You'll see... poor Ginny, eh?


I have never seen those before!Which may prove how lazy I really am, but on to my point...(beware all you dislike H/G).


Scholastic Online Chat -- Is Harry Potter ever going to fall in love with Hermione or is he going to fall in love with Ginny Weasley?

In Book IV Harry does decide he likes a girl, but it's not Hermione or Ginny. However, he's only 14, so there's plenty of time for him to change his mind. ;-)

Now, this quote has already met it's time. Harry decides he likes Cho in GoF, and that's the end of that. He askes her, she says no and she feels horribly about it. Who can blame her? Would you rather have gone with older, good-looking Cedric, or with a boy younger than you? Now many people out there would jump to Harry's defense, but we have to remember that a) Cho doesn't know Harry very well, she doesn't know him at all really and that b) he doesn't come across as exactly charming does he?

Time Pacific Interview -- I would say Harry has flaws and failings. [...snip...] And what about Ginny?

Poor Ginny, languishing in love for Harry, and he's merrily asking out other girls right under her nose! But that's just a boy thing."

This to me sounds alot like many other Hr/R quotes out there. (hint hint, nudge nudge)

Poor Ginny isn't exactly right though is it? She's "given up on him" hasn't she? She dated Michael Corner in OotP and now she's on to Dean Thomas (at least that's the last we've heard of it), but we can't say that she doesn't like him anymore. I know I've given up on a boy, but I've still had feelings for him. That's actually the reality of my love life at this very moment. And if some haven't noticed, Ginny was a much bigger part of OotP! Harry confided in her at certain times when he felt he couldn't talk to Hermione or Ron. He can also relate to her. Who else has been so close to Voldermort? Ginny went through alot of pain and torture during her first year at Hogwarts and all because of Voldermort, (or Riddle..whatever). They have an understanding about it.

Darnit, I'm in school and don't have my copy of OotP, but does anyone else remember the part where Ginny yells at Harry during Christmas holiday? She says something about how she was possessed(sp?) by Voldermort. I seem to remember him looking at her quite differently there.


BBC "Red Nose Day" Online Chat--Will Harry ever notice the long-suffering Ginny Weasley? You'll see... poor Ginny, eh?

Now this may have to do with her relationships with Michael Corner and Dean Thomas in OotP, but I have my doubts. Sure, Ginny is out dating other boys, but it sure is making Harry notice her a bit more. My bet is that Harry will begin to see Ginny in a much different light. Not only will they always be around each other because of his relationship with Ron, but she is also a very good friend to Harry.

Now, there was another good G/H quote up and around this thread, but now I can't see to find it.


EDIT: Who on here said that Ginny and Luna isn't quote possible because Harry doesn't know them very well? I'd like to prove it wrong, if you don't mind. :) No offense to anyone.

I wouldn't exactly say that Harry needed to know either of them extremely well to have a relationship with them. First of all, Harry didn't know Cho, but he still pursued her. A real basis of a relationship is to get to know one another, to have a better understanding. They're supposed to be new and exciting.

What's new and exciting about Hermione? He's known her since his first year, and he has never once given us any inclintation(sp? did I botch it horribly?) that he has had any feelings about her other than a friend. With Cho we knew.

This may not make much sense, heh.

[Darynthe]

Every serious debater would rather debate canon than an interview, everybody who got at least enough sense to know that even "God" like authors (though most authors aren't at all God in their storyverse) are humans and can change their mind, can say "I didn't say that", will not use an interview like a law. You are terrible mistaken to think when JKR writes H/Hr that you can argue with her wheter she said in your opinion H/Hr will always remain platonic or not. She'll just do it.



She has already shown she can go and say "I was joking!". She did that last week about the realese date. (maybe on purpose?) She thought it was funny to mislead us. I didn't find it that funny but if she says it's a good joke, then I guess it is. :)

This is the kind of attitude from JKR which makes me doubt and double guess the interview hints so much. If JKR was known to give a complete straight forward answers in her interviews instead of admitedly, dodge things, joke, etc. then I would give R/Hr all the credit I cannot give it from canon.

H/H has so much cannon to support it that roughly 250 essays have been written about it. Some amazing, some other not so brilliant but yet, defendable. So I find it a tiny little naive the people who come to say that the ship is sunk because of interview hints.

ETA:
Hey people have you seen the new pics at Mugglenet. What do you think of those of Rupert and Emma? Gosh, those two do NOT have chemestry or what? :huh:

[GrangerGal]

She has already shown she can go and say "I was joking!". She did that last week about the realese date. (maybe on purpose?) She thought it was funny to mislead us. I didn't find it that funny but if she says it's a good joke, then I guess it is. :)

This is the kind of attitude from JKR which makes me doubt and double guess the interview hints so much. If JKR was known to give a complete straight forward answers in her interviews instead of admitedly, dodge things, joke, etc. then I would give R/Hr all the credit I cannot give it from canon.

H/H has so much cannon to support it that roughly 250 essays have been written about it. Some amazing, some other not so brilliant but yet, defendable. So I find it a tiny little naive the people who come to say that the ship is sunk because of interview hints.

She never actually hid the fact that she was done with the book, she just could not say she was done with it. More than a few people guessed that she was done.

Anyway H/Hr canon often relies on subtext. Personally I think this fact is what sinks the ship. Relying on symbolic flights and underlining meaning without knowing the end of the story seriously hinders the ship. Although many of the symbols and subtext may come to be truths, we cannot know their intentions b/c we do not know the end of the story.

For me, I ship Ron and Hermione b/c of the overwhelming textual evidence pointing to the fact that Ron likes Hermione. I will say that I wish there was more obvious evidence textual evidence supporting Hermione's feelings for Ron.

[Darynthe]

She never actually hid the fact that she was done with the book, she just could not say she was done with it. More than a few people guessed that she was done.

Anyway H/Hr canon often relies on subtext. Personally I think this fact is what sinks the ship. Relying on symbolic flights and underlining meaning without knowing the end of the story seriously hinders the ship. Although many of the symbols and subtext may come to be truths, we cannot know their intentions b/c we do not know the end of the story.

For me, I ship Ron and Hermione b/c of the overwhelming textual evidence pointing to the fact that Ron likes Hermione. I will say that I wish there was more obvious evidence textual evidence supporting Hermione's feelings for Ron.

I disagree, she implied she wasn't done with the book and that she may give birth before the book was done. And independently if a few or many people thought she was done with the book, we must analyze JKR intention. She meant to mislead us and say afterwards it was just a joke. I think this shows how little her statements about important developments can be taken at face value... You should see why some people think like we do at least. It's not that we are blind or hardheaded, it's simply a more skeptical attitude.

The subtextual analysis is canon, it can be analyzed freely *because* the books are not finished. (and subtextual exists, just think about the celtic symbology of the wands of the trio, just as an example. There are hidden meanings everywhere) Once the series is over we'll be able to say we were wrong or we were right, but obviously, the fact that the series is not finished doesn't mean that the interpretations are wrong. There is absolutely no causality between those two things.

My personal problem (and of many other Harmonians I think) with the textual evidence of Heron is that a 95% of it is negative. You should use inverted psychology to make it work. It's like: Ron and Hermione fight and insult each other because they are in love, they attracted. If that isn't inverted psychology I don't know what it is :huh: It's not a straight forward read on the text, IMHO.

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

Well, first of all, childhood crushes never last.

Which is why Ron no longer goes red when he's around Madam Rosmerta, and doesn't seem uncomfortable with the idea of Bill dating Fleur.

Besides, if Ron's crush is childish, what is Luna's but the sort of "admiration from afar" Ginny used to practice around Harry?

And Ron is over her, and he proves that by the conversation they had when Hermione was writing that huge letter to Viktor.

Really? This theory I haven't heard (maybe because we don't get a lot of Hermione/Viktor shippers). Could you elaborate?

My personal problem (and of many other Harmonians I think) with the textual evidence of Heron is that a 95% of it is negative. You should use inverted psychology to make it work. It's like: Ron and Hermione fight and insult each other because they are in love, they attracted. If that isn't inverted psychology I don't know what it is It's not a straight forward read on the text, IMHO.

I've never thought that "Ron and Hermione spend so much time around each other even though they can't stand each other because they're masochistically devoted to Harry" was a particularly straightforward interpretation. But to each his own.

[Krumpet]

Okay I'm going to take a quick break from lurking to comment on a very well written essay by Karen.
Unwrapping the Mysteries of Holiday Gift-Giving (and Receiving) in Harry Potter,
New Theories and the Unusual Present

<snip>

I bet you were wondering when I was going to get to my shipping point, weren’t you?

I’m almost there – just a few moments longer to wait – and I’ll have the present I promised, ready to lay out. <snip>

Hermione. “Thanks for the book, Harry!” she said happily. “I’ve been wanting that New Theory of Numerology for ages! And that perfume is really unusual, Ron.”
“No problem, “ said Ron… (OotP, Chapter 23: Christmas on the Closed Ward, 501-3).

Now the thing about Christmas presents is that their uses aren’t always immediately noticeable. Sure we all know what happened to the candy and pies – yum!... We discover that the boys actually do buy Hermione presents... First, Hermione gets both boys the same gift (I don’t think this is normal as I think the boys would have commented on the fact if she did usually give them the same gift). And this gift is not all together wanted – Ron doesn’t seem to thrilled about it – and Harry even thinks of popping the thing into the fire the next chance he gets – so I don’t think the boy’s were all that keen on her gift. The gift itself is quite practical – it is OWL year and the boys do need to study. Hermione just decided that her way – the organized and methodical method – would be good and appropriate for her two best friends. So books it is for the boys – work books – yep goes over like a lead balloon. This is the first time we get to see what the boys buy Hermione – the gifts to her are never itemized, so these must be important in some way – and here we get at last to the Christmas shipping point – actually two points.

Let’s start with Harry’s gift and Hermione’s response. What does Harry give his know-it-all book reading friend – gasp – a book! Big surprise. Yes, it’s a book on her favorite subject (see POA for her gushing on Arithmancy) – but it’s a bloody book. Not exactly original – Hermione and Ron have both given Harry books on Quidditch – Harry’s Arthimancy – and there was nothing shippy about those gifts – keeping in mind that Hermione’s gift is in third year, before all the hormones really kick in and well – there is nothing non-platonic going on between Ron and Harry.
<snip>
But what does Hermione really want? What is the gift she’s rather get –
This is a bit trickier – but the clue is in her response to Ron’s gift. See she and Ron had a series of very public, very vocal fights the Christmas last. Why? Partly because it’s “taken [him] three years to notice” Hermione “is a girl!” (GOF, Chapter 22: The Unexpected Task, 400). So what does Ron give her? Not the safe present, not the suspected gift, the book for the bookworm, the text for the reader. No, Ron gives her a gift – a special gift – one notable in the way it screams – “I know you’re a girl!” The perfume is a girl gift – and not just a any girl gift – an intimate girl gift – a personal girl gift – a hint, that he sees her as a girl, that he is interested in Hermione as a girl. That he in all likelihood fancies her (as perfume has strong fancy connotations thanks to Hagrid’s rather strong use of cologne to impress Madame Maximine in GOF – even Ron makes the he fancies her connection – Chapter 16: The Goblet of Fire, 266-7).

And here’s where we shippers get all divisive – in Hermione’s response to each boy's gifts.

She is exclamatory over the book – she’s wanted it for ages – as she’s said – this is a gushing, exuberant sort of response.

And for Ron – his gift is “really unusual.”
<snip>
-Karen

I unfortunately had to cup off most of the essay, which was very interesting read, to get to the thing I wanted to comment on that I didn't see any other Heron say. Yes I know this is three days late but this was the first chance I got.

Before Ron gives Hermione the perfume he compares her to two strictly platonic woman in his life, his sister and his mother. It is Hermione that makes the comparison to Ginny with this…

OotP US Hardback page 348 chapter 16 "In the Hog's Head"

"Which one was Michael Corner?" Ron demanded furiously

"The dark one," said Hermione.

"I didn't like him," said Ron at once.

"Big surprise," said Hermione under her breath.

Emphasis mine. Hermione makes the comparison here. Ron obviously acted somewhat similar to this about Krum. In fact it has lead some Harmonies to say that Ron has only sisterly affection for Hermione. (Which I don't buy but that's not the point of this reply). Hermione however seems to agree with the Harmonies here as she is obviously referencing Krum with her "big surprise".

I find it interesting also that after this, but before the immediately before the perfume. Hermione writes her grocery list to Krum write under Ron's nose and fails to get a response even as strong his Michael/ Ginny response. And this is after her kiss. But I degrees.

Moreover sometime between Hog's Head and the first DA meeting Ron makes another comparison between Hermione and a female member of his family. However this time it isn't a comparison of inference this time it's direct.

OotP p.378, Chapter 18 "Dumbledore's Army"

Ron looked utterly perplexed.

"Sirius is right," he said "you do sound just like my mother."

Hermione bit her lip and did not answer.

Hermione seems to take the comparison to Molly hard when it comes from Ron. We know she doesn't consider it that bad a comparison when coming from someone else. But Ron comparing her the ultimate platonic female in his life seems to utterly take the wind out of her sails and argument.

Which leads us to the kiss the and Krum letter. With the kiss Ron gave a very non-platonic response; which he then failed to repeat with the Krum letter. So from Hermione perspective it's been a mix signal full year up until the perfume (since last Christmas).

Signs that Ron likes her as more then a friend (that she's seen).

-His jealousy of Krum

-His reaction to her kiss

Signs she's seen that he may only like her platonically. (Because she hasn't seen the end of some of these scenes)

-His anger at Ginny/Michael is similar to his anger at her /Krum.

-His comparison of her to his mother.

-His reaction to Harry's first kiss, may seem make his reaction to her kiss seem less special.

-His apparent disinterest in the fact that she's continuing to communicate with Krum.

Which leads us to the perfume. The two clear non-platonic signals Ron has given Hermione, has been undercut by his latter actions. Moreover his has also shown her an additional very platonic sign, by comparing her to his mother.

By the time she opens the perfume I don't think she has a clear idea of Ron's feelings for her. And we don't get to she her initial reaction just the measured response she shows the boys when she finds her way up to their room.

Just my take on her reaction to the perfume. IMHO as always.

[eRiN_GRyFFiN]

For me, I ship Ron and Hermione b/c of the overwhelming textual evidence pointing to the fact that Ron likes Hermione. I will say that I wish there was more obvious evidence textual evidence supporting Hermione's feelings for Ron.

Hi everybody! how are you today!

I'm freezing cold! lol..but let's back on topic :D

I think you do bring an important point here, GrangerGal (at least to me ;)).

After a long time reading Herons and Harmonians posts (also chocolates and moonlights, but specially the formers), I suppose I'm not still prepared enough to ship an only one ship and fight for it till death :p

I mean. I suppose that I took for granted that there was something going on between Ron and Hermione. I knew nothing about Jo's quotes. And though I didn't think too much about shippings and who- I- want- to- hook- up- with- who stuff, I just could see it. GoF, as Herons claim, is full of R/Hr, in my opinion.

Then, I read OoTP and surprise..I could see that something was different. Hermione, to me, is too much Harry-centered in the book. There are some reactions and scenes that I can't explain with just friendly frienship; in others, I can. (I hope this makes any sense, lol).

I was just like "But..what about Hermione-Ron thing?" There's always The Sigh, but you know..book five is huge! :D

So, back to where I started, I think it's plain that Ron has a thing for Hermione. But Hermione's love life, as someone said before as I nodded, is a mystery. "she could have married with 4 children and no one knew" lol. There aren't much obvious textual evidence supporting Hermione's feelings for Ron.

So to me, the more than obvious R/Hr without any other possibility, it's getting even more interesting, for everything may happen.

Maybe Ginny has been forwarded to be his little romance. Os maybe just a major character, as Neville (and I don't think Jo is thinking in H/N ship! :P)

Maybe Hermione/Ron thing is going futher...maybe she's not so sure by now.

Off I go! see you later! ;)

-eRiN-

[GrangerGal]

I disagree, she implied she wasn't done with the book and that she may give birth before the book was done. And independently if a few or many people thought she was done with the book, we must analyze JKR intention. She meant to mislead us and say afterwards it was just a joke. I think this shows how little her statements about important developments can be taken at face value... You should see why some people think like we do at least. It's not that we are blind or hardheaded, it's simply a more skeptical attitude.

The subtextual analysis is canon, it can be analyzed freely *because* the books are not finished. (and subtextual exists, just think about the celtic symbology of the wands of the trio, just as an example. There are hidden meanings everywhere) Once the series is over we'll be able to say we were wrong or we were right, but obviously, the fact that the series is not finished doesn't mean that the interpretations are wrong. There is absolutely no causality between those two things.

My personal problem (and of many other Harmonians I think) with the textual evidence of Heron is that a 95% of it is negative. You should use inverted psychology to make it work. It's like: Ron and Hermione fight and insult each other because they are in love, they attracted. If that isn't inverted psychology I don't know what it is :huh: It's not a straight forward read on the text, IMHO.

Of course subtext exists but we cannot know its meaning yet. Of course there are hidden meanings but will we know what they truly are if we do not know the end of the books. You actually contradict here. You will not take anything JKR says as canon b/c we do not know what the end of the books are but you will take subtext because we don't know what the end of the books are. I never said that Harmonians and their version of subtext are all wrong but I said it is hard for me to agree with it when it is so vague and can be interpreted in too many ways.

Why do you think it is negative? I personally think most of Hermione and Ron's interactions are positive. They do not have nearly as many fights in the book as Harmonians seem to think. If each book is about a year, they have maybe one fight every two to six months. That is pretty normal in the life of a teenager.

Honestly I think that Heron will happen not because of the fights but because of Ron's obvious love for Hermione. Everyone (or at least everyone I have talked to both on and off this thread) agrees that Ron likes Hermione. Everyone knows that he likes her. The only thing we are really waiting on for Heron's ship to sail is Hermione. I believe but cannot prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that Hermione likes Ron. I believe their fighting is the tension that actually keeps them apart when they both want to be together. Most of their fights since PoA have been over Krum or other love interests. Ron has shown over and over again that he cares about Hermione despite his immaturity and Hermione has done the same despite her maturity.

Now I have seen nothing that indicates that Harry loves Hermione because as of today, there is nothing in the books that say Harry loves Hermione. There is evidence that Hermione may have feelings for Harry but you can take similar evidence that shows Hermione likes Ron. As for the symbols, my major opposition to Harmony started with the "Symbolic Flight." That "obvious" foreshadowing of Hermione and Harry's love has way too many holes and way too many meanings. For starters, I have said a hundred times that Hippogriffs represent the impossible b/c horses and griffins were mortal enemies so mating would have been impossible. At that point in time, Harry and Hermione were on an impossible mission - go back in time and save Sirius. Also Hermione screamed that she didn't like the flight. Therefore why would you want a symbolic flight that one of the fliers hated to represent your ships undying love. Third how do you truly argue with a symbol when you cannot know the outcome of the book and therefore whether or not your interpretation is correct?

eRiN_GRyFFiN - I understand what you mean... this is what I said a few pages ealier...
I also think one of the reasons we did not see as much evidence for Heron in OotP is b/c Harry knew something was going on with ron and Hermione in GoF. However, after Cedric's death, Harry became more self involved. Harry was too angry, upset, confused, stressed to notice what was going on with Ron and Hermione any more. He was still carefree in GoF, but by the start of OotP, Harry had become disillusioned, cynical, and angry. (Now I love Harry and I think he has every right to feel these things right now. Enough people feel these things that have not been through the things Harry has!) Anyway since we see things from Harry's point of view, we only see what he feels or even what he wants to see. Harry is a bit angry with Ron and Hermione and the world, therefore he is not seeing the love between Ron and Hermione and so we aren't seeing it either. (Is this making sense?)

[brisa]

You're referring to the chess pieces right? (Rook and bishop = Queen, the most powerful piece on the board)

Nop...I'm referring to a puzzle pieces...those who match...and ...aaww forget it :cool:

[Darynthe]

I've never thought that "Ron and Hermione spend so much time around each other even though they can't stand each other because they're masochistically devoted to Harry" was a particularly straightforward interpretation. But to each his own.

I dont' think they can't stand each other. But definetely a straight forward reading is to say that they are not attracted. At least Hermione is not.

I am glad you admit that Heron is *not* the straightforward reading, btw. :D

[GrangerGal]

I dont' think they can't stand each other. But definetely a straight forward reading is to say that they are not attracted. At least Hermione is not.

I am glad you admit that Heron is *not* the straightforward reading, btw. :D
Why aren't they attracted to eachother? Where does it say that? Ron's reaction at the Yule Ball would say differently. However I will agree that I can't tell how Hermione feels all of the time but I still think that there is enough evidence pointing to the fact that she likes Ron.

[HeRmIoNe_14]

Ron/Hermione-Harry/Ginny

[drdementor]

I don't think Jo was misleading us when she said her baby is racing Book 6 into the world. Yes, she didn't want to tell us Book 6 was finished until she handed it over to her publishers, BUT her baby is still racing HBP into the world!

HBP is coming out in July, and her baby will certainly be born before we get our hot little hands on it (the baby's presence was announced in July, so it should be born in April), thus, winning the race. I think she was being funny, and actually tipping us off that we'd be getting the book within the year, not being unfairly misleading. At that point, she didn't know the publication date, which was decided by her publishers.

So, I do still think we can trust what she says. She does indeed like to be tricky in interview questions, but you can always look back after reading the next book and understand what she meant perfectly well. She said a 'big fan' of Harry's was going to die and that it was a horrible death to have to write. Sirius, a 'big fan' of Harry's did die, and his death was horrible to read. The one thing she sometimes confuses people with is the timing of her hints. She is willing to tell us stuff far in advance...I read OotP in eager anticipation of the 'shocking' truth about Lily only to find that Lily, quite understandably, was rather disgusted at James' fifteen year-old behavior. James was the shocking one, not Lily. So we have a bit more to wait on that one. Otherwise, though, I can't remember a thing that has been stretched or has misled us. Some things haven't got in the books yet, but we still have two books to go.

Her 'shipping' quotes have not all had the definite, clear answers some of her quotes have had, but they have been very strong indicators to me that my Hr/R hunch was right. Most especially, I see her quotes supporting H/G in the absence of clear text indicators...whenever I start thinking maybe it'll be Harry and Luna at the end, I just read her comments about Ginny and cute, little freckled girls, and I see that she plans to give Ginny her original wish. Of course, not everyone sees her quotes that way, understandably enough. But I think that when I read the brilliant Harmony 'subtext' essays, those quotes are a major reason I didn't switch sides.

[clkginny]

There are people who enjoy arguing. I happen to be one, myself. I am as likely to argue with one of my friend as I am with someone I'm attracted to. Therefore, it is an unfair assesment to say they don't like each other just because they argue.

[Hulk]

The subtextual analysis is canon, it can be analyzed freely *because* the books are not finished. (and subtextual exists, just think about the celtic symbology of the wands of the trio, just as an example. There are hidden meanings everywhere) Once the series is over we'll be able to say we were wrong or we were right, but obviously, the fact that the series is not finished doesn't mean that the interpretations are wrong. There is absolutely no causality between those two things.

The subtextual analysis is canon as long as it includes no obvious outside knowledge that most people need to obtain from other material. Symbolic Flight, for example, is absolutely not canon because to deduce such thing, one must have some mythology background or happen to read a book about Hippogriff. Actually, it is one the worst kind of theory because such knowledge (Hippogriff = Love in Greek(?) mythology) are far less canon-related than JKR interviews and the movies. Same apply to the star signs, and the four(?) kinds of love of Plato. These are just...not canon.

[drdementor]

Yes, it's true. I and one of my best friends (another girl) argue all the time because we enjoy arguing and we trust and love each other enough to enjoy disagreeing sometimes. There is no 'sexual tension' between us, but there is a good, strong friendship.

I see the arguing between Hermione and Ron as part of their relationship, be it friendship or developing into something more. They like arguing, and the only people they can safely argue with is each other. It's an important, good part of their friendship.

[Darynthe]

Of course subtext exists but we cannot know its meaning yet. Of course there are hidden meanings but will we know what they truly are if we do not know the end of the books. You actually contradict here. You will not take anything JKR says as canon b/c we do not know what the end of the books are but you will take subtext because we don't know what the end of the books are. I never said that Harmonians and their version of subtext are all wrong but I said it is hard for me to agree with it when it is so vague and can be interpreted in too many ways.

I take everything, with a grain of salt. But I give little credit to interviews cause they are not canon. At least not for me. And they haven't been completely straightforward up to date. All that has been completely straightforward in them is when JKR says "I'm not saying".

The books on the other hand, are the work of 14 years of effort from JKR, which deserve a deep analysis and serious debate. I can understand you can take the interviews at the same level, but you have to admit that the fact that I don't do the same is not becuase I'm crazy. I have my perfectly thought out reasons. I am an skeptic.

About the Harmony essays and theories, I agree with you, I cannot tell for sure they are all correct. I am not a seer, but there is deep embedded logic from both literary and Potterverse point of view to a great ammount of them. I would say I am a 85% sure of a H/Hr romance as final paring. Note I am not saying 100%.

Why do you think it is negative? I personally think most of Hermione and Ron's interactions are positive. They do not have nearly as many fights in the book as Harmonians seem to think. If each book is about a year, they have maybe one fight every two to six months. That is pretty normal in the life of a teenager.

Oh, I think it's pretty negative over all. Check out these few textuals cases of Ron’s insults to Hermione’s intelligence, values, opinions and work ethic all US ed hb; SS pgs-106, 120, 154, 157, 166, 171-2, 183, 219, 229, 269, 276, 277, 278
CoS pgs-45, 84, 89, 95, 130, 147, 158, 160, 166, 174, 184, 211, 214, 227-8, 233, 234, 237, 250, 255, 285, 289
PoA pgs-57, 61, 98, 110-1, 129, 140, 145-7, 149, 164, 198, 225, 230, 232, 236, 249, 250, 252, 265, 274, 275, 290, 295, 315, 319, 326, 430, 433
GoF pgs-83, 139, 166, 183, 194, 198, 207, 218, 223-5, 236, 239, 249, 262, 364, 372, 374, 394-5, 399, 400, 404, 407, 411, 414, 421-3, 432, 434, 449, 481, 513, 523, 525, 539, 547-8
OoP pgs-76, 159, 183, 253, 255, 256, 289, 295, 325, 330, 353, 365, 378, 426, 451, 460, 461, 498, 501, 503, 539, 548, 573, 634, 660, 679, 681, 712, 715, 716

What can you say? Will reason away ALL THAT?



Honestly I think that Heron will happen not because of the fights but because of Ron's obvious love for Hermione.

I don't think it's that obvious and of course as yourself say, if it exist it's obviously one sided. We don't know who she fancies. She is a mystery. I think she fancies one of the boys because JKR kind of implied it once, but nothing much else.


As for the symbols, my major opposition to Harmony started with the "Symbolic Flight." That "obvious" foreshadowing of Hermione and Harry's love has way too many holes and way too many meanings. For starters, I have said a hundred times that Hippogriffs represent the impossible b/c horses and griffins were mortal enemies so mating would have been impossible.

Well as I said there are brilliant essays and there are essays that are at least defendable. In my opinion this comparison belongs to the defendable ones. It's debatable and can only be corroborated at the end of the series. The essays with textual evidence, psychological analysis of the trio, the analysis of the literary intention, of changing personalities, of DoM imaginery, Jung archetypes, comparison with other authors, etc are even more interesting. Personally I like the sybol of a Pig flying over Harry and Hermione as she embraced him. LOL That is the one that made me become an Harmonian. It was too funny and *impossible* to be overlooked.

[LordGrindelwald]

Care to explain how you get the idea that I said Harry wasn't there? I said before to me Harry laughed for a different reason about the idea that Neville asked Hermione out as Ron did. What this scene showed later too. Ron was saying Hermione lied to Neville, means she had no date ergo is to ugly, to awful to get a date at all.

Ah, the old Harmony double standard. Harry was laughing for a different reason. Ron is a mean old bully to Hermione, while Harry is a sweet young gentleman to her who would never harbor a disrespectful thought against her.

Relly, it is quite clear that the humor of the situation was in Hermione lying to Neville, not that Neville would ask Hermione out. Why on earth would Harry find it funny simply that Neville asked Hermione? Harry was in complete agreement with Ron, so he too believed Hermione was lying, so he too believes Hermione was not asked out yet and finds it funny.


Contrary, in case of Luna I nor R/L shipper claim Ron is in love with her, unlike you who claim he is in love with Hermione. It's your argument what hits that badly back. Ron did talk badly in GoF and OotP about Hermione, remember that girl he is supposed to love.

But how is that relevant? If, by your logic, Ron has such a low opinion of Luna, how could you expect him to suddenly fall in love with Luna?

This got again nothing to do how talkative you are if Ron were in love we did all the time hear how Hermione does that and this and how well she is in school. But strangely enough if someone shows pride than its Harry, but that's the wrong ship.

Ron does compliment Hermione, and Hermione gets flattered in response. This happened in PoA and OOTP.


Well, it's not. Why should someone be that shocked, so much that he is even more distracted as before? Because he is in love? There is no smile, there is no possitive reaction at all.

Ron seemed to come to himself slightly as they walked back across the Great Hall. He touched the spot on his face where Hermione had kissed him, looking puzzled, as though he was not quite sure what had just happened. He seemed too distracted to notice much around him, but Harry cast a curious glance at the crown-shaped badges as they passed the Slytherin table, and this time he made out the words etched on to them:

How is that a realistic reaction? Where is the blush? Where is a smile? Puzzled? How can someone be that if he is in love with that girl? There is nothing but a distracted boy who looks puzzled and touch this spot on his check.

Maybe he was shocked because he wasn't expecting Hermione to kiss him on the cheek at that particular moment? Maybe because he was worried that Hermione doesn't return his feelings, and was waiting for some sign of affection? And because it happened when his mind was flooded with worries about Quidditch, so there was an element of surprise? Shock and puzzlement would be the most powerful emotion he'd feel at the time, before the feeling of bliss would settle in.

Now, Harry never shows any reaction whatsoever when Hermione hugs him, holds his hand, kisses him, etc.

If someone accuse his friend to make a Love Potion then is that lack of trust.

Come on, he was just kidding around. He knows perfectly well Hermione has never used a love potion on Harry, and that she is not playing both Krum's and Harry's hearts.

If someone want always to know what she is planning then is that a lack of trust. Ron don't trust Hermione as much as he should.

And when Harry accused Hermione of laughing with Lavender about how crazy Harry was, then that is definitely a lack of trust. So, null point.

[Corbin Dallas]

Oh, I think it's pretty negative over all. Check out these few textuals cases of Ron’s insults to Hermione’s intelligence, values, opinions and work ethic all US ed hb; SS pgs-106, 120, 154, 157, 166, 171-2, 183, 219, 229, 269, 276, 277, 278
CoS pgs-45, 84, 89, 95, 130, 147, 158, 160, 166, 174, 184, 211, 214, 227-8, 233, 234, 237, 250, 255, 285, 289
PoA pgs-57, 61, 98, 110-1, 129, 140, 145-7, 149, 164, 198, 225, 230, 232, 236, 249, 250, 252, 265, 274, 275, 290, 295, 315, 319, 326, 430, 433
GoF pgs-83, 139, 166, 183, 194, 198, 207, 218, 223-5, 236, 239, 249, 262, 364, 372, 374, 394-5, 399, 400, 404, 407, 411, 414, 421-3, 432, 434, 449, 481, 513, 523, 525, 539, 547-8
OoP pgs-76, 159, 183, 253, 255, 256, 289, 295, 325, 330, 353, 365, 378, 426, 451, 460, 461, 498, 501, 503, 539, 548, 573, 634, 660, 679, 681, 712, 715, 716

What can you say? Will reason away ALL THAT?
If any of it really mattered Darynthe, Hermione and Ron wouldn't be best friends and Hermione's made her own snides towards Ron. Boy, reason nor rhyme seems to have real control over why they are good friends, they just are ...
...
PS
Symbolic Flight uses one possible example of the Hippogriff, The Orpheus Myth which links Harry andd Ginny is spread through out the series with multiple links, is far better known than Hippogriffs and has only one aspect yet explored, romance, I see more with the Orpheus Myth than a possible interpretation of the Hippogriff, and love isn't even it's most popular interpretation...
...

[Thædin]

I don't really ship anything (other than Flich/Giant Squid, but that one is obvious), but really don't like Heron...For some reason, Ron grates on my nerves...to the extent that I hope he is the character that will die in the sixth book *crosses fingers*, but I would't be bitterly opposed to it and refuse to read the book. The ship I DO see happening, though, is SIGNS (Neville/Ginny). Just the way Ginny stands up for Neville and asserts that he IS somebody seems like a good clue for me...

[Darynthe]

I don't think Jo was misleading us when she said her baby is racing Book 6 into the world.

I'm afraid JKR does not agree with you. She said one week later that she had been joking then. Joking implies that she misled us with pupose of having a good laugh. No bad intention on her side, but no need to look deeper, sorry.

[snoopy_bombay]

There are people who enjoy arguing. I happen to be one, myself. I am as likely to argue with one of my friend as I am with someone I'm attracted to. Therefore, it is an unfair assesment to say they don't like each other just because they argue.

Agree.This is an observation made by many people.Sometimes brother and sister argue with each other for simple reasons.How can you say the arguements between ron and hermione provide the Spark for a romantic relationship?

[Darynthe]

If any of it really mattered Darynthe, Hermione and Ron wouldn't be best friends and Hermione's made her own snides towards Ron. Boy, reason nor rhyme seems to have real control over why they are good friends, they just are ...
...

Truth is a good 30 % of those insults were done to Hermione's back. Very healthy relationship, ain't it. I am sure that is exactly the kind of message JKR wants to give to young girls. It's Ok to be insulted, belittled, scorned, and talked badly at your back. After all, the guy likes you in the bottom of his heart and may some day make a move. That's the essence of love, go for it!!

(I'm afraid I agree with that person who said that Hermione has become Ron's friend merely for Harry's sake. These quotes can very well be proof of that)

[clkginny]

Agree.This is an observation made by many people.Sometimes brother and sister argue with each other for simple reasons.How can you say the arguements between ron and hermione provide the Spark for a romantic relationship?
I didn't say the arguments provide spark for the relationship between Ron & Hermione. I just pointed out that arguments can happen (and be enjoyed) by people who are romantically interested in each other, as well as by people who are "just friends."

[snoopy_bombay]

I didn't say the arguments provide spark for the relationship between Ron & Hermione. I just pointed out that arguments can happen (and be enjoyed) by people who are romantically interested in each other, as well as by people who are "just friends."
I'm never saying you did.What I'm saying is that herons usually say that.I was questioning them,not you.

[Corbin Dallas]

(I'm afraid I agree with that person who said that Hermione has become Ron's friend merely for Harry's sake. These quotes can very well be proof of that)
Wow that's real insightful, well for me anyway, were it not for the Troll Hermione wouldn't be Harry's friend either and some people do not make friends on their own for various reasons...it takes other things to bring people together, heck even Jo thinks so, check out her site in the Extra stuff section, she mentions how the Editors wanted to take out the Troll scene but Jo said no, still you really believe the up most worse about Ron to think this is all he thinks of Hermione? I feel for you, I really do and I doubt anything anyone says will change your view...
...

[LordGrindelwald]

Oh, and later in the passage she goes on to call Ron an 'insensitive wart' with the 'emotional range of a teaspoon'. Oh, yes, very nice words to call a person you're in love with. I'd just love for my boyfriend to be an 'insensitive wart' with the 'emotional range of a teaspoon'. (Which by the way, he is NOT!)

What about "I wouldn't go out with you if it was a choice between you and the giant squid?"

Or how about "I don't know how your broomstick gets off the air with your fat head on it?"

Indeed, nice words to say to a person who is your future hsband!

[Corbin Dallas]

What about "I wouldn't go out with you if it was a choice between you and the giant squid?"

Or how about "I don't know how your broomstick gets off the air with your fat head on it?"

Indeed, nice words to say to a person who is your future hsband!
Don't forget , "YOU MAKE ME SICK!"...
...

[clkginny]

Truth is a good 30 % of those insults were done to Hermione's back. Very healthy relationship, ain't it. I am sure that is exactly the kind of message JKR wants to give to young girls. It's Ok to be insulted, belittled, scorned, and talked badly at your back. After all, the guy likes you in the bottom of his heart and may some day make a move. That's the essence of love, go for it!!

(I'm afraid I agree with that person who said that Hermione has become Ron's friend merely for Harry's sake. These quotes can very well be proof of that)
I'm curious...Harry has been there everytime Ron has "insulted" Hermione, yet Harry generally agrees. Harry doesn't stand up for Hermione to Ron. So, how is that an argument for Harry and Hermione getting together?

[snoopy_bombay]

What about "I wouldn't go out with you if it was a choice between you and the giant squid?"

Or how about "I don't know how your broomstick gets off the air with your fat head on it?"

Indeed, nice words to say to a person who is your future hsband!

I can try to explain that.Now when lily made these comments she din't know james personally.She only came to know about him later.She might not have known that snape was as bad to james as james was to snape.That's probably why she thought james used to curse snape for no reason.On the other hand hermione knows ron very well.They've been friends since five years.Even then hermione calls ron "an insensitive wart" and "having the emotional range of a teaspoon"

[drdementor]

:) Sorry Darynthe! Yep, I reread Jo's little announcement-behind-the-locked-door on HPANA and she does say 'Although I have joked about HP+THBP racing my third baby into the world, I have in fact had all the time I needed to tinker with the manuscript to my satisfaction and I am as happy as I have ever been with the end result...." So you were right. And of course Jo does joke around on her website with us, what with the 'Toenail' comment and all. It's understandable to take her interviews with a big grain of salt, and I tend to do so unless she's being very clear and plainspoken. But there are certain things I just can't get around. A big one is her reaction to Snape fans; she doesn't get it, she doesn't like Snape (though she likes writing him) and she's disturbed that he has so many fans. That tips me off that Snape is not just being mean to Harry to pull the wool over Malfoy's eyes. That's his real personality in the classroom, based on Jo's reaction there.

Jo does joke around with us, but when she does, she is being funny and we can tell. I mean saying she'll need extendable fingers to keep typing because her belly is getting so big is pretty funny! But the shipping quotes, from what I've seen anyway, haven't included many hilarious asides.

I also think that she jokes around more on her site than she does in interviews, and sometimes people have taken her jokes the wrong way. She had to put a correction in her site telling people she was joking about forbidding us to call Voldemort 'Voldy,' for example. There are lots of jokes on her site, but so far they are all ones she has herself pointed out to us fairly quickly. She doesn't leave us out of the joke for more than a couple of weeks, if it is one.

So, the shipping quotes (and most of the rest of her interviews) have not been hilariously funny, and she has let them stand for years without saying 'guys, guys, I was kidding, get a grip, honestly.' Her websites addresses regarding shipping have been very funny, especially her image of rabid Harry/Hermione and Ron/Hermione shippers. So I think that we can take her interviews with a slight grain of salt, simply because she doesn't want to give everything away, but that we can say that she jokes on her site and not really in interviews.

[Corbin Dallas]

I can try to explain that.Now when lily made these comments she din't know james personally.She only came to know about him later.She might not have known that snape was as bad to james as james was to snape.That's probably why she thought james used to curse snape for no reason.On the other hand hermione knows ron very well.They've been friends since five years.Even then hermione calls ron "an insensitive wart" and "having the emotional range of a teaspoon"
Forgive me, buyt I can explain that too, Hermione is frustrated at Ron's lack of progress in maturity, afterall she was courted by Krum and expects Ron to step up to the Bar, you know though, look at their interactions after this scene, Ron and Hermione really don't follow their pattern where they just insult each other back and forth and Rarely is Ron making any real mean statements about or to Hermione, seems maybe he has begun to mature up. Still James seemed to klnow Lily well enough and Lily at least had some insight into James and they had been at school together, in the same house for 5 years so there always a possibility that they knew each other more than casually, we really just don't know for sure one way or the other...
...

[mrs_bombadil]

Plus drdementor and darynthe, Jo gave us a clue when the paragraph about the site was updated to say "seventh" book and "no it won't be finished any time soon". If we look at all of her clues and quotes together to see how they may be useful, you'll find a forest for the trees. :evil:

I know I took her "racing the book into the world" joke to simply be another clue that the book was in fact well along, if not done (although I've actually suspected a first draft was complete for quite some time). :D

Darynthe, I hope if you are now so devoted to taking JKR quite literally, you will embrace the "maligned not malignant" comment about the Weasleys. You don't have to like Ron but I think the level of dislike many have for him is NOT what the author intends. ;)

ETA: I really like your recent find Krumpet!

[snoopy_bombay]

I'm curious...Harry has been there everytime Ron has "insulted" Hermione, yet Harry generally agrees. Harry doesn't stand up for Hermione to Ron. So, how is that an argument for Harry and Hermione getting together?

If you can post an arguement where harry agrees with ron we might be able to explain.

[Corbin Dallas]

If you can post an arguement where harry agrees with ron we might be able to explain.
SPEW, the Marauder's Map, the Firebolt, Snape, ...
...

[clkginny]

If I post where he agrees you might be able to explain? What I asked is "When have we ever seen him disagree?" This implies that he either always agrees, or that he doesn't see any reason to disagree.

Now, when it comes down to it, I could care less who ends up with whom. I will like and read the books anyway. I just don't understand how Ron's "disparaging" remarks about Hemione makes the "Heron" ship more unlikely, when Harry never says anything (that I remember) about Ron's comments, and in fact seems not to disagree.

BTW-Ron will stand up for Hermione to other people.
POA pg 172 US Hardback
Hermione went very red, put down her hand, and stared at the floor with her eyes full of tears. It was a mark of how much the class loathed Snape that they were all glaring at him, because everyone of them had called Hermione a Know-it-all at least once, and Ron, who told Hermione she was a know-it-all at least twice a week, said loudly, "You asked us a question and she knows the answer! Why ask if you don't want to be told?"

[LordGrindelwald]

I can try to explain that.Now when lily made these comments she din't know james personally.She only came to know about him later.She might not have known that snape was as bad to james as james was to snape.That's probably why she thought james used to curse snape for no reason.On the other hand hermione knows ron very well.They've been friends since five years.Even then hermione calls ron "an insensitive wart" and "having the emotional range of a teaspoon"

We don't really know how well Lilly knew James personally. But I think she had a pretty good number on James' pesonality; she's clearly been observing him closely and seems to take James' immaturity very personally, and most of her accusations on James were absolutely true. Snape was not the only person James cursed. Despite all that, she was able to love James eventually.


Now, in the post-kiss scene, why do you think Hermione calls Ron these things? Why does she have so much of a personal stake on Ron acting like a typical boy? Ron's not acting much worse than Harry. Do you honestly think she really means these things and simply can't stand Ron, or is there something else going on?

Truth is a good 30 % of those insults were done to Hermione's back. Very healthy relationship, ain't it. I am sure that is exactly the kind of message JKR wants to give to young girls. It's Ok to be insulted, belittled, scorned, and talked badly at your back. After all, the guy likes you in the bottom of his heart and may some day make a move. That's the essence of love, go for it!!

You know, if I really wanted to (maybe when I have the time), I can come up with a sizable list of times when Harry insults/belittles/ignores/disrespects Hermione. Perhaps not quite as big, but keep in mind, Harry is not as outspoken as Ron.

Harry is not any more respectful of Hermione than Ron is. Harry is a passive-agressive, so he may not voice all the times he thinks SPEW is ridiculous, or that Hermione is a nag, but that doesn't mean he doesn't agree with everything Ron says. Trouble is, many Harmonies mistake this passive-agressiveness as reverence. If I was to use your argument, then I'd say both boys treat Hermione rather roughly, and she deserves to be in a relationship with Krum.

[FredFancier]

In an interview jkr said that harry would be experiencing a little romance.Now If h/g or h/l were to happen it would't be a little romance as jkr would need to develop these characters as they are pretty distant right now.So it is logical to assume h/hr to happen because then jkr wouldn't have to devote a lot of pages to it.

um I still doubt it.
also Harrys 'romance' (if you want to call it that) with Cho didn't need have very much build up. I know that it didn't work out. Yet each person, and each relationship is different. Sometimes the relationship may start small and we may not know the person well yet they can end up together (like my parents didnt know each other well, yet they went out, and had more dates, went steady, fell in love, got engaged got married)Still though JKR has said H/Hr won't date and are platonic friends. So i guess Harrys romance will be coming from someone else

JKR has also said Harry will hold a little girls hand
Hermione is older then harry (and also never described as a little girl)
Ginny is younger then harry and described as a little girl
Luna is younger then harry yet not described as a little girl
I think Luna's there for Ron....she's very taken with him, even when he's being obnoxious. I think Ron's going to like the unconditional attention and lack of criticism.

he didn't like it in OotP
he still thinks she is a nutter
besides I thinkLuna's feelings are changing. With the mistletoe thing..nargles..such a good cover up, must remember to use itif I am ever in a situation like that
besides when Ron made a joke later in the hospital wing, even Hermione laughed. But Luna didnt. If she liked him wouldn't she have gone crazy like on the train.
And I have another question
with H/Hr - Harry has shown no romantic attraction to her. we have no one liking the other (well hermione's feelings are arguable)
with R/Hr we have Ron liking hermione (and hermione may like him- her feelings are arguable as in the case of H/Hr)
with H/L- It is arguable that Luna likes Harry. Harry has shown no romantic attraction to her, but they are friends and he no longer thinks she is crazy
with R/L- Luna's feelings are arguable (but the end of the book is not good for Red Moon IMO) and Ron thinks she is a nutter
with H/G- Harry has shown no romantic attraction to her, Ginny's feelings are arguable.
- So I bring up, Ron likes Hermione, so why wouldn't JKR let them end up together. Ron is always beaten by his brothers. So he goes to school and he is always overshadowed by his best friend. Even his major 'victorys' (Prefect and Quidditch cup) are overshadowed in some way. As Bill (possibly Charlie) and Percy were all prefects, and with the Quidditch, Charlie was a seeker (and supposidly a darn good one as they were saying harry was as good as, maybe better then Charlie, so we can assume Charlie was probably a quidditch hero) and of course Harry was a quidditch hero
When I point this out and say so why would JKR put Hermione with Harry and let Ron be beaten again (esp as he has liked hermione longer then the ZERO minutes even, that harry has). People simply say- Ron will have to get over it. It doesn't matter that he likes her. Besides the books are Harry Potter and the _____
yet Harry doesn't even like Hermione and there is nothing saying he will start too.
Yet with Luna/Ron people use Luna liking Ron as reason for it to happen. Yet 1)Luna's feelings are very arguable and 2) Ron doesn't like Luna
so using the logic that was given to me: Luna should just get over it (if she hasn't alreayd or if she even likes him)

[IceKat55]

A side this the dear Good-Shipper only care to quote and tape this single question, nobody cares that the whole interview was dump.
:lol: But what you don't seem to understand is that the main element of importance from that question...was Rowling's answer. :eyebrows:

[runitzandrew]

I'm curious...Harry has been there everytime Ron has "insulted" Hermione, yet Harry generally agrees. Harry doesn't stand up for Hermione to Ron. So, how is that an argument for Harry and Hermione getting together?
Well, of course he doesn't. Harry is friends with both Ron and Hermione. Don't you think it would be a bit weird in Ron's POV if Harry starts sticking up for Hermione all of a sudden? (I finally learned what POV meant the other day. Lol, i'm starting to get used to this.) Anyways, it's the same the other way around. Harry didn't exactly stick up for Ron when Hermione made rude comments about him, either.

BTW-Ron will stand up for Hermione to other people.
POA pg 172 US Hardback
Hermione went very red, put down her hand, and stared at the floor with her eyes full of tears. It was a mark of how much the class loathed Snape that they were all glaring at him, because everyone of them had called Hermione a Know-it-all at least once, and Ron, who told Hermione she was a know-it-all at least twice a week, said loudly, "You asked us a question and she knows the answer! Why ask if you don't want to be told?"
I think Ron stood up for Hermione there because Ron knew, along with everyone else, how unfair Snape was being, and was the only one (dumb) enough to talk back to Snape.

[clkginny]

Well, of course he doesn't. Harry is friends with both Ron and Hermione. Don't you think it would be a bit weird in Ron's POV if Harry starts sticking up for Hermione all of a sudden? (I finally learned what POV meant the other day. Lol, i'm starting to get used to this.) Anyways, it's the same the other way around. Harry didn't exactly stick up for Ron when Hermione made rude comments about him, either.
Right, exactly, thank-you!

In other words, how is any of this a valid argument for any ship?

Which was my point in the first place.

As to why Ron stood up for Hermione, they are friends and Snape was being cruel and unfair. I was just pointing out that Ron doesn't always have something bad to say about Hermione, and that he doesn't appear (although this is yet to be conclusively proved) to like someone else saying something bad about her.

[runitzandrew]

In other words, how is any of this a valid argument for any ship?

Which was my point in the first place.
It's not. I wasn't using it to support any ship i'm shipping.

[LordGrindelwald]

I think Ron stood up for Hermione there because Ron knew, along with everyone else, how unfair Snape was being, and was the only one (dumb) enough to talk back to Snape.

Sometimes, love makes people do the dumbest things! :eyebrows:

[runitzandrew]

Sometimes, love makes people do the dumbest things!
Maybe Ron does have a thing for Hermione. But I don't think Hermione likes him back.

[chocolate brown]

Oh please, I ALWAYS fight and insolt my frind (he's a guy) and a lot of people thoguht we are in love, but he is just so....YUCK!!!

I mean, I care about him as a brother, I could never "fall in love" with him!
Same thing with Ron and Hermione, they'we been friends for a too long time, and what happened happened, that belonges to the past and it should STAY THERE! :p


I disagree, she implied she wasn't done with the book and that she may give birth before the book was done. And independently if a few or many people thought she was done with the book, we must analyze JKR intention. She meant to mislead us and say afterwards it was just a joke. I think this shows how little her statements about important developments can be taken at face value... You should see why some people think like we do at least. It's not that we are blind or hardheaded, it's simply a more skeptical attitude.

The subtextual analysis is canon, it can be analyzed freely *because* the books are not finished. (and subtextual exists, just think about the celtic symbology of the wands of the trio, just as an example. There are hidden meanings everywhere) Once the series is over we'll be able to say we were wrong or we were right, but obviously, the fact that the series is not finished doesn't mean that the interpretations are wrong. There is absolutely no causality between those two things.

My personal problem (and of many other Harmonians I think) with the textual evidence of Heron is that a 95% of it is negative. You should use inverted psychology to make it work. It's like: Ron and Hermione fight and insult each other because they are in love, they attracted. If that isn't inverted psychology I don't know what it is :huh: It's not a straight forward read on the text, IMHO.

[LilypadLollipop]

And I have another question
with H/Hr - Harry has shown no romantic attraction to her. we have no one liking the other (well hermione's feelings are arguable)
with R/Hr we have Ron liking hermione (and hermione may like him- her feelings are arguable as in the case of H/Hr)
with H/L- It is arguable that Luna likes Harry. Harry has shown no romantic attraction to her, but they are friends and he no longer thinks she is crazy
with R/L- Luna's feelings are arguable (but the end of the book is not good for Red Moon IMO) and Ron thinks she is a nutter
with H/G- Harry has shown no romantic attraction to her, Ginny's feelings are arguable.
- So I bring up, Ron likes Hermione, so why wouldn't JKR let them end up together. Ron is always beaten by his brothers. So he goes to school and he is always overshadowed by his best friend. Even his major 'victorys' (Prefect and Quidditch cup) are overshadowed in some way. As Bill (possibly Charlie) and Percy were all prefects, and with the Quidditch, Charlie was a seeker (and supposidly a darn good one as they were saying harry was as good as, maybe better then Charlie, so we can assume Charlie was probably a quidditch hero) and of course Harry was a quidditch hero
When I point this out and say so why would JKR put Hermione with Harry and let Ron be beaten again (esp as he has liked hermione longer then the ZERO minutes even, that harry has). People simply say- Ron will have to get over it. It doesn't matter that he likes her. Besides the books are Harry Potter and the _____
yet Harry doesn't even like Hermione and there is nothing saying he will start too.
Yet with Luna/Ron people use Luna liking Ron as reason for it to happen. Yet 1)Luna's feelings are very arguable and 2) Ron doesn't like Luna
so using the logic that was given to me: Luna should just get over it (if she hasn't alreayd or if she even likes him)
This is what i've been trying to ask forever ::is green with envy:p::
So, i'm gonna ask for an answer to the above statement as well :D

[Sarah_Hedwig]

Yeah, my siggy tells all, but I want to add Harry/Ginny. Hey, is there a combined name for Harry and Ginny? How about Hanny? Yes I know it sounds dorky, but we ought to come up with a name for them...

[LilypadLollipop]

they'we been friends for a too long time, and what happened happened, that belonges to the past and it should STAY THERE!
so that's the exact same for harmony, if u want to use the above statement.
i guess that leaves us with: hr/n, r/l, h/g?!

[Sarah_Hedwig]

oh here's my ideas for names (might sound stupid):
Hanny for H/G
Hervile for Hr/Nev
Runa for R/L

[LilypadLollipop]

I like Hervile :p and hanny's very cute :)

[LordGrindelwald]

(I'm afraid I agree with that person who said that Hermione has become Ron's friend merely for Harry's sake.)

That's just your opinion, and bears no relevance to the shipping debate. Do you really, honestly, truly think that JKR feels the same way, that Ron and Hermione only hang out together because of Harry?

[GinnyxHarry]

so that's the exact same for harmony, if u want to use the above statement.
i guess that leaves us with: hr/n, r/l, h/g?!
N/Hr, R/L, and H/G are MY ships. O.O OMG ***! If J.K. makes those happen.... XD

[Shylah]

That's just your opinion, and bears no relevance to the shipping debate. Do you really, honestly, truly think that JKR feels the same way, that Ron and Hermione only hang out together because of Harry?

"But from that point on, Hermione Granger became their friend. There are some things you can't share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them." (SS Am.Ed. p179)

There it is Hermione was "their" freind, both Harry and Ron's.

[Darynthe]

Troll scene but Jo said no, still you really believe the up most worse about Ron to think this is all he thinks of Hermione? I feel for you, I really do and I doubt anything anyone says will change your view...
...


Anything could have started the friendship, be the Troll or whatever. But to really make it continue for the rest of their lives? I think that glue is Harry and always will be. But that would not be enough in my opinion to make them a couple. One thing is being friends and other completely different is being lovers.

All the scorn Ron have for Hermione doesn't make up for anything of a healthy relationship. All those instances I showed of Ron slighting Hermione are the farthest thing that could make her fall for him, do you agree with this? If she is to be with him, he must be somebody to make her feel better about herself, make her self-esteem grow, make her feel happy about herself. Insults will never reach that goal. They never will with anybody remotely sane. :huh:

So, no. Anything you say won't make me change my mind. Ron would have to have a complete brain transplant to change enough to make him suitable for our beloved Hermione. He isn't up to scratch. I do prefer to see her end up alone than with him as a life partner to be completely honest, but that's my personal preference. Maybe JKR is of another idea, I don't know.

[FlyingPhoenix]

Ah, the old Harmony double standard. Harry was laughing for a different reason. Ron is a mean old bully to Hermione, while Harry is a sweet young gentleman to her who would never harbor a disrespectful thought against her.

Relly, it is quite clear that the humor of the situation was in Hermione lying to Neville, not that Neville would ask Hermione out. Why on earth would Harry find it funny simply that Neville asked Hermione? Harry was in complete agreement with Ron, so he too believed Hermione was lying, so he too believes Hermione was not asked out yet and finds it funny.


:lol: When was the last time that you read GoF? In canon isn't written whether Harry laughed about Ron's assumation or not. What you can read is that Harry was completely distracted by this news that Neville asked Hermione. Jacob, do you hear the bell? It's not that Harry was distracted that Neville asked a girl, he was that distracted because Neville asked Hermione. Only Ron was laughing and saying that Hermione hadn't yet a date, that she was lying. There isn't written that Harry laughed about that as well. In fact I did say he found it more amussing that Neville did ask Hermione out. Seems like there was someone thinking Neville aimed to high.


But how is that relevant? If, by your logic, Ron has such a low opinion of Luna, how could you expect him to suddenly fall in love with Luna?

Do you care and explain to me why you take it complete out of context? You said: Well, Ron's a rather open and talkative teenage boy, and he speaks bad behind everyone's back, including Luna. Guess he won't fall in love with anyone then.

Which I answered to that Ron isn't in love with Luna but you, you as R/Hr claim he is in love with Hermione yet he talks badly about her? If, by your logic, Ron has such a low opinion of Hermione, how can you argue that he is in love with her? Priceless you just got my point, didn't you? Just change a little bit that sentence about Luna and you're there.


Ron does compliment Hermione, and Hermione gets flattered in response. This happened in PoA and OOTP.

Yeah, everytime if she does something what's to his favour. Like re-writting an essay, I think every friend would be compliment her.

Maybe he was shocked because he wasn't expecting Hermione to kiss him on the cheek at that particular moment? Maybe because he was worried that Hermione doesn't return his feelings, and was waiting for some sign of affection? And because it happened when his mind was flooded with worries about Quidditch, so there was an element of surprise? Shock and puzzlement would be the most powerful emotion he'd feel at the time, before the feeling of bliss would settle in.


Ah, sure, every guy who is in love with a girl and don't know his luck react's like that? Shock is a negative description for a pleasent event. This whole buisness about that kiss reminds me at Harry's kiss from Cho. In fact there are awful many comparing moments which says that this feelings aren't deep enough. Ron is certainly not in love. He might have a crush, might have a thing for Hermione but is it love? Nah, it isn't.

Now, Harry never shows any reaction whatsoever when Hermione hugs him, holds his hand, kisses him, etc.

He shows reactions when Hermione hugs him yet his POV does write it under welcome's pleasure that he sees both of his friends again. In GoF we read how Hermione never had done this before. It's like a backwards look where you recognise when things started to change.
Its a slow building up and a realistic one for a H/Hr ship.

Come on, he was just kidding around. He knows perfectly well Hermione has never used a love potion on Harry, and that she is not playing both Krum's and Harry's hearts.

Hermione took him serious and that's what count, isn't It?

And when Harry accused Hermione of laughing with Lavender about how crazy Harry was, then that is definitely a lack of trust. So, null point.

That's a different situation. Sadly you can't compare Harry to Ron, at least no more in OotP. Ah and you're mistaken let me quote:

'Been having a nice little chat with her about whether or not I'm a lying, attention-seeking prat, have you?' Harry said loudly.

Harry didn't say what you are claiming there and if you did read canon you'll recognise that Harry wasn't pleased that Hermione didn't react angry on his behalf. You see he wanted to have her angry about Lavender even though it was last night that Lavender said these things. Harry had a strong desire in OotP that Hermione defends him and reacts angry because of people who speak badly about him, also he want to have her symphatic.
This got nothing to do with Trust.

[Sarah_Hedwig]

I like Hervile :p and hanny's very cute :)

Thanks! :)

[IceKat55]

oh here's my ideas for names (might sound stupid):
Hanny for H/G
Hervile for Hr/Nev
Runa for R/L
Cute, but on this board, we have:

Harry/Ginny: HMS Chocolate
Ron/Luna: HMS Red Moon

Not sure if there is a ship name for Hermione & Neville...most folks seem to ship her with either Ron or Harry! :p

[EmilyRose]

Have we thought of a name yet for the combined Chocolate and Heron ships? I know quite a few of us who are fond of both.

*polishes new siggy, slaps it up* But hey, Harry's a lucky guy any way you look at it. Which is the closest you'll hear me say to "Why can't we all just get along?"

[FlyingPhoenix]

:lol: But what you don't seem to understand is that the main element of importance from that question...was Rowling's answer. :eyebrows:

:lol: Dump answer on a dump question. :rotfl: I think I got that this reaction was a very british one.

[Sarah_Hedwig]

I just thought they'd be shorter than HMS Chocolate or whatever. I'll just stick to H/G.

[Darynthe]

You know, if I really wanted to (maybe when I have the time), I can come up with a sizable list of times when Harry insults/belittles/ignores/disrespects Hermione. Perhaps not quite as big, but keep in mind, Harry is not as outspoken as Ron.


Nobody has made a similar list cause there are not a single instance of Harry attacking personally Hermione. I've checked out and the most we've got so far is his anger at at the end of the Centaur fight. He said "Very smart plan!" in a sarcastic voice. That is an attack to her plan but not to Hermione as a person. So, I think that Harry is a respectful person, even if he doesn't agree with Hermione's opinions, he would never hurt her on purpose. That is why I really like him so much. He is amazing.



Harry is not any more respectful of Hermione than Ron is. Harry is a passive-agressive, so he may not voice all the times he thinks SPEW is ridiculous, or that Hermione is a nag, but that doesn't mean he doesn't agree with everything Ron says. Trouble is, many Harmonies mistake this passive-agressiveness as reverence. If I was to use your argument, then I'd say both boys treat Hermione rather roughly, and she deserves to be in a relationship with Krum.


I want to know what is your definition of passive aggressive? Harry is not that. He doesn't voice that SPEW is ridiculous or that Hermione is a nag because he doesn't believe that. Putting words in Harry's mouth won't convince many. Sorry.

Anyway, you realize that taking up with Harry has nothing to do with the discussion at hand??? He is an independent subject, since we are talking about Ron bashing Hermione. This discussion does not change even if Harry was what you say. That has nothing to do with Ron, they are two different entities! Even if Harry was the same, that doesn't make Ron suitable for Hermione.

[Sarah_Hedwig]

I must go, toodles!

[Shylah]

. Jo Rowling, via her website JKRowling.com, that “certain crucial pieces of information in book six were originally planned for 'Chamber of Secrets,' but very early on (first draft of Chamber) I realized that this information's proper home was book six. I have said before now that 'Chamber' holds some very important clues to the ultimate end of the series. Not as many as six, obviously, but there is a link."

In an essay by Water Witch called Ginny Weasley, Why, (HP Lexicon) the author points out that throughout most of the series Ginny has been characterized by words like “small” and “little.” In Rowling’s own statement about Harry’s dating future, she refers to his relationship in Book Six as “a little romance.” A coincidence? Maybe. But what about the Chamber/Prince link? Ginny plays a very important part in Chamber of Secrets, and her possession is restated in Phoenix, as Ginny becomes the only character who is able to pull Harry out of his dark moods: “'Well, that was a bit stupid of you', said Ginny angrily, 'seeing as you don't know anyone but me who's been possessed by You-Know-Who, and I can tell you how it feels.' Harry remained quite still as the impact of these words hit him. Then he wheeled round (OotP, UK edition, p. 441).” The Chamber/Prince when viewed through the lens of relationships, points only in the direction of Ginny and Harry. Wouldn’t it make sense for Ginny’s crush in Book Two to blossom into a relationship in Book Six?

[clkginny]

People keep talking about how awful Ron's treatment of Hermione is.

I still haven't seen anyone cite an instance where Harry doesn't agree with him. So I still don't think that is a valid argument for "Harmony" being more likely than "Heron."

BTW- Shylah, Luna pulls Harry out of his dark moods, too.

[Darynthe]

Darynthe, I hope if you are now so devoted to taking JKR quite literally, you will embrace the "maligned not malignant" comment about the Weasleys. You don't have to like Ron but I think the level of dislike many have for him is NOT what the author intends. ;)


I don't know what is that "maligned not malignant" comment? Please quote? I am a little lost with your meaning.


I really don't know the author's intent. I think she should be the one to explain it herself. One thing, independently of her intent, people will read things in different ways and like some people and dislike others. For instance, I prefer 100 times Ron better to Ginny. He's got a full blown personality and character, that per se is admirable and great. He is very well done.

Ginny is too much of Mary Sue for me, my dislike of her is almost a visceral thing.

[mrs_bombadil]

Have we thought of a name yet for the combined Chocolate and Heron ships? I know quite a few of us who are fond of both.

*polishes new siggy, slaps it up* But hey, Harry's a lucky guy any way you look at it. Which is the closest you'll hear me say to "Why can't we all just get along?"

The new siggy is lovely!

I've been trying to make a word out of OBHWF but it just isn't working! :rotfl:

[Darynthe]

OBHWF. That means Big Happy Weasley Family? Nobody has cared to explain that. What does the O stand for?

[EmilyRose]

Ginny is too much of Mary Sue for me, my dislike of her is almost a visceral thing.

I think that since OoTP we've seen that Ginny is anything but a Mary Sue. She lies with a straight face to her mother, displays a definate sense of humor and a strong personality, has shown a talent for curses and spells, and a tendancy to act more like her brother Ron for getting into trouble (though not the outright destructive, though highly entertaining, fashion for which Fred and George are known).

If she was "Mary Sue" prior to OoTP, it was being shy around Harry, and not lack of personality, that made her seem that way. From all of her brother's comments, she's always had a strong personality. Can't think of a Weasley that would survive in that house without one: they've all got distinct personalities, but strong ones.

[Shylah]

OBHWF. That means Big Happy Weasley Family? Nobody has cared to explain that. What does the O stand for?

One?

[Messed]

People keep talking about how awful Ron's treatment of Hermione is.

I still haven't seen anyone cite an instance where Harry doesn't agree with him. So I still don't think that is a valid argument for "Harmony" being more likely than "Heron."

But as far as Hermione's feelings go, she would probably prefer someone who doesn't generally criticize her outloud as opposed to someone who belittles her every chance he gets.

OBHWF. That means Big Happy Weasley Family? Nobody has cared to explain that. What does the O stand for?

The O stands for 'One'

On another note, when somebody says 'She's a Mary Sue' what do the mean by Mary Sue?

[shohra]

Good Point and I shall concede you that, I will now ponder that (not that this shakes me and my shipping preference).
Well she could have got it from the same sorce she found out about Luna. Ginny :rotfl:
The question is why did Ginny check on Cho if she gave up on Harry already :p
Iam late CD already answered

[mrs_bombadil]

I don't know what is that "maligned not malignant" comment? Please quote? I am a little lost with your meaning.

I really don't know the author's intent. I think she should be the one to explain it herself. One thing, independently of her intent, people will read things in different ways and like some people and dislike others. For instance, I prefer 100 times Ron better to Ginny. He's got a full blown personality and character, that per se is admirable and great. He is very well done.

Ginny is too much of Mary Sue for me, my dislike of her is almost a visceral thing.

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=7

That is the Extra Stuff/Characters/Random-Facts-About-The-Weasley-Family write up on Jo's website.

My take on that (as well as many, many other quotes showing her affection for Ron and his strong links to her dearest friend) is that Ron is supposed to be likable, or at least a "good guy"! Her references to things like disdain for weasels and superstitious scorn for red-heads certainly seems to be a fairly strong statement about the Weasley family's value to the story.

Like I said, I don't think you are in any way obligated to like any character. But, I do think you are missing the point by being sooooo negative about Ron. As for his arguing with Hermione (which she does with him to) being bad for her self esteem...I quite disagree. As a parent I'm supposed to help foster my children's positive development in that respect. Most experts agree you do not do it by simpley approving of everything they do and say. Truly getting a strong sense of self also means having a realistic self-image; you get stronger by your failures too. What I think Ron and Hermione do is challenge those aspects of each other's personalities that tend to be too extreme. Again, I think by looking at the bigger picture of most of their interractions you don't actually see pointless nasty bickering; what you really see is a challenging exchange of ideas where either neither is fully wrong (in other words, both views have merit) or times where one or the other is right. Generally it's to Harry's benefit (and the story's) to get both sides; and it's to Ron's and Hermione's benefit as well.

Now, please explain your "Mary Sue" comment about Ginny because I don't get that...???

[clkginny]

But as far as Hermione's feelings go, she'd probably would probably prefer someone who doesn't generally criticize her outloud as opposed to someone who belittles her every chance he gets.
Personally, I'd find it hard to be impressed by someone who professes to love me, and then let's his friends say what ever they want to about me without saying a word.

Of course, the assuption here is that Hermione is deeply offended by what Ron says, but hangs out with him because of Harry. This makes little sense from what we've seen of Hemione's personality. She will tell Harry what she thinks of everything else he does, but won't say she doesn't like what Ron says, or that Harry doesn't disagree. So...which personality does she really have? Too scared to say anything? Or unwilling to take everything that Ron says seriously? Now, we're getting down to personal opinion of the personalities involved. Which isn't what I'm trying to get at. I'm trying to get some canon evidence of why Ron's behavior is so much more offensive than Harry's and where Hermione shows that opinion.

[EmilyRose]

Two possible meanings for Mary Sue:

1. The goody-goody, or without personality, pretty girl who is perky, bright, helpful, and fairly two-dimensional.

2. The Author putting himself/herself into the work to live out wish fullfillment, especially when the hero ends up with the "Mary Sue" and she's the center of attention.

It's a writing term of a cheap plot device or flat/static character, and it's fairly insulting. Calling someone that in real life is rather like calling them a Stepford Wife. She is often the damsel in distress of the novel.

[stic]

AvadaKedavra wrote:That is the fairest and most honest assessment that I've seen on JKR's quotes from any Harmonian. Let this be the 'benchmark' for any aspiring Harmonian, because it establishes common ground between the ships; a battlefield which we can fight upon :tu:
hermione 3: Will Harry and Hermione will be together? *sigh*
JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

In the (...) quote, JKR is rather harsh to us and displays exasperation (...)The ?! combined with the word surely indicates strong exasperation at the question: They should know by now. (Emphasis mine)
Hmmm...do you really think (I'm not gonna 3 step you...) JKR was "rather harsh" and displayed "strong exasperation" in her answer when the very first part of her answer was "lol" , i.e. laughing out loud? :eyebrows:
The questioner was being humorous with the *sigh* and Jo obviously found it funny, hence the "lol" at the begin of the reply. The ?! I find to be deliberate confusion. Jo's neither giving :tu: nor :td:

Will Ron and Hermione ever get together?

Well—[Laughter.] What do you think? [Audience member: I think they will]. I’m not going to say. I can’t say, can I? I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I’m going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one. If you compare those two quotes directly, you can see the difference in the tone What difference? In the first one Jo answered with a lol (laughing out loud) at the beginning and in the second one there's "laughter" at the beginning. :shrug:
I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I’m going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one

She tells us that she has given us enough material to work with to work it outYeah, but she doesn't say clearly to work out what. She answers to a Harmonian "you've had enough clues by now, surely?!" and answers to a Heron "I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject". Sounds like the same to me. Jo tells us she won't say and we should search the books for clues that lead to the right answer.

You see, all of Jo's quotes don't really give us any real straight answer.
Real R/Hr hints or R/Hr red-herrings of the highest order? Which is it in her interviews? We can't tell for sure. So why should we let the quotes rule our perception of the books? Should one really have them always in the back of his mind while trying to interpret any ship-relevant scene from the books? :huh:

Can't that make you "quote spoiled"? If you believe first and foremost that Jo's quotes without a doubt point towards R/Hr before you try to interpret any ship-relevant scene in the books you begin right with the final conclusion; you think R/Hr is a lock already because of the quotes and only then you go on and actually interpret the scene. You think "it's R/Hr to begin with" so what's left is to find an explanation how that scene either points towards that ship or at least doesn't form an obstacle.

You end up in a circle: The book-scenes are to be interpreted R/Hr because Jo's quotes truly say R/Hr because the book-scenes are to be interpreted R/Hr because Jo's quotes truly say R/Hr because.....

Real R/Hr hints or R/Hr red-herrings of the highest order? Which is it in her interviews? We can't tell for sure. So, let us try something new: We forget about all of Jo's quotes for a few minutes.

We go back to the Lake at the time of the 2nd TWT task in GoF :eyebrows: :

Quick recap: What had really happened at first was this:

1.)Krum rescues Hermione from the lake
2.)Krum confesses his love to Hermione
3.)Hermione goes straight to Harry
4.)Krum tries to turn Hermione's attention back onto himself

What Harry and the reader had seen was this:

1.)Krum rescues Hermione from the lake
--------------------------------------
3.)Hermione goes straight to Harry
4.)Krum tries to turn Hermione's attention back onto himself

Harry missed a piece and makes a wrong connection, he thinks Krum simply wanted to draw Hermy'a attention back to the fact that he had just rescued her from the lake.
Jo gave us that missing piece only at the end of GoF. Jo never wrote Harry putting it back in.

Harry and the readers then saw this:

1.)Fleur thanks Harry and kisses him
----------------------------------
3.)Fleur thanks Ron and kisses him
4.)Hermione is "looking simply furious"
5.)Ludo Bagman calls and draws everybody's attention to himself

Harry and the readers are missing something here and that something is Hermione's direct reaction to Fleur having kissed Harry. :huh:
What if the actual scene that Harry and the reader didn't see in its entirety was this:

1.)Fleur thanks Harry and kisses him
2. Hermione is "looking simply furious"
3.)Fleur thanks Ron and kisses him
4.)Hermione is "looking simply furious"
5.)Ludo Bagman calls and draws everybody's attention to himself

It would change everything! Had we seen the entire scene we would never believe for a second that Hermione was furious because Fleur had kissed Ron but because Fleur had kissed Harry. Right after Harry got his kiss Hermione began to look furious. When Harry had looked at Hermione she was still furious.

Pretend Jo had planned for GoF
1. to write Hermione falling for Harry and hide it
2. to distract from Hr-->H through creating fake Hr---->R hints

She'd have done both things at the same time through a very little omission at the end of the second TWT task. One little missing piece is a big enough back-door for the whole fandom to walk through with Jo. :tu:
If that is true, it'd be truly great mystery writing.

Another thing: What Ron saw I am very sure was only this:

1.)Fleur thanks Harry and kisses him
--------------------------------------
3.)Fleur thanks Ron and kisses him
---------------------------------------
5.)Ludo Bagman calls and draws everybody's attention to himself

Would explain why Ron is so unsure about Hermione. She's never given him any reason to make a move.
The "supposed future ball invitation" has a sufficient back-door, too. So does the scowl of Hermione at the end of GoF.I was intrigued by your hypothesis on why JKR suddenly shut her trap. My take on it is that I think it's because she started to realise how much people were paying attention to her ship-related quotes and decided to keep quiet My view:The books can be worked out. The books + Jo's 3step/nudge nudge people into the wrong direction -style quotes together are one tough son-of-a-gun.A problem that I perceive with your hypothesis is that it doesn't make any sense for JKR to "promote" R/Hr just before the release of OOTP, supposedly the H/Hr "bible". Any thoughts? If Jo has intended H/Hr and a R/Hr diversion, doesn't it make perfect sense to try and support the mystery in her interviews? :tu:

[mrs_bombadil]

Two possible meanings for Mary Sue:

1. The goody-goody, or without personality, pretty girl who is perky, bright, helpful, and fairly two-dimensional.

2. The Author putting himself/herself into the work to live out wish fullfillment, especially when the hero ends up with the "Mary Sue" and she's the center of attention.

It's a writing term of a cheap plot device or flat/static character, and it's fairly insulting. Calling someone that in real life is rather like calling them a Stepford Wife.

Thanks for clearing that up...I checked it out on www.urbandictionary.com too and think I grasp the concept now. So, if it's true that's what she is then she probably is the LI, huh? :evil:

[EmilyRose]

Were it true, yes. She would. See, though, calling any character in the books a Mary Sue is rather insulting to JKR. It's a plot device used by very bad writers, who can't think of real personality for their characters.

As I stated in my initial response to the Mary Sue comment, Ginny's displaying enough personality and guts to definitively make her not a Mary Sue.

[daz]

hermione 3: Will Harry and Hermione will be together? *sigh*
JK Rowling replies -> lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

What i think the clues point to in OOTP is Hermione not returning Rons feelings. There are no clues of Hermione giving the come on to Ron.

Like she kissed Ron but there is no tell tale blush. Or anything to hint that Hermione is shy about kissing Ron. It was a Business like kiss from Hermione. Then we see how Ron reacts to the kiss. There is a huge diffrence between the 2 and the kiss.

Now we look at how Hermione acted with Krum. The blushes and the shyness when she chats about Krum.

There is nothing there with the kiss Hermione give Ron. And Harry noticed how Ron reacted to Hermiones kiss. So for Ron it was a great moment but Hermione had no such reaction and Hermione did not Blush or act shy about kissing Ron. Why because it was a friendship kiss. It meant nothing to her. It was a kiss to a friend.

[Messed]

Two possible meanings for Mary Sue:

1. The goody-goody, or without personality, pretty girl who is perky, bright, helpful, and fairly two-dimensional.

2. The Author putting himself/herself into the work to live out wish fullfillment, especially when the hero ends up with the "Mary Sue" and she's the center of attention.

It's a writing term of a cheap plot device or flat/static character, and it's fairly insulting. Calling someone that in real life is rather like calling them a Stepford Wife.

Thanks for clearing that up :)

Love your siggy, by the way. I think that's the best portrayal of those characters that I've ever seen.

[FlyingPhoenix]

People keep talking about how awful Ron's treatment of Hermione is.

I still haven't seen anyone cite an instance where Harry doesn't agree with him. So I still don't think that is a valid argument for "Harmony" being more likely than "Heron."


The different would be that R/Hr shipper claim: Ron is in love with Hermione.
H/Hr shipper claim (or I'm the one who claims that): Harry is falling for Hermione.
Being in love means you seriously won't behave like Ron does around Hermione.
Falling in love means you can very well act like that look at J/L.

[EmilyRose]

I don't think any of them are in love yet. They're 15 years old, and neither of the boys has a clue about girls, and all of the girls are just waiting around for them to catch on.

It's a matter of who fancies who, and which relationships have a chance of lasting past the giggly, blushing or stuttering phase. I believe that the Ron/Hermione relationship, that is to say, their friendship and current romantic interest in each other as demonstrated in the books, will blossom into a romantic relationship based on their friendship, loyalty to each other, and yes, even their ability to tell the other off from time to time. A good relationship is often based on the people involved bettering each other.

[Alfonzo]

I don't think any of them are in love yet. They're 15 years old, and neither of the boys has a clue about girls, and all of the girls are just waiting around for them to catch on.

It's a matter of who fancies who, and which relationships have a chance of lasting past the giggly, blushing or stuttering phase. I believe that the Ron/Hermione relationship, that is to say, their friendship and current romantic interest in each other as demonstrated in the books, will blossom into a romantic relationship based on their friendship, loyalty to each other, and yes, even their ability to tell the other off from time to time. A good relationship is often based on the people involved bettering each other.
Indeed :agree:. There is the misconception that for Hermione and Ron to be together, they have to start gazing at each other all day, have to stop arguing completely and instead start complimenting each other constantly... I know that was exaggeration, but you all get my point right? Just because R/Hr isn't completely watertight doesn't mean that it can't happen or succeed...

[EmilyRose]

Even if there was a ring on Hermione's finger and they were finishing each other's sentances, it wouldn't be water-tight. Nothing is, for relationships.

[clkginny]

The different would be that R/Hr shipper claim: Ron is in love with Hermione.
H/Hr shipper claim (or I'm the one who claims that): Harry is falling for Hermione.
Being in love means you seriously won't behave like Ron does around Hermione.
Falling in love means you can very well act like that look at J/L.
Well, no one said anything bad about Lily for James to defend (except Snape) and we've seen Ron and Harry (note: Ron and Harry) defend Hermione about the "mud-blood" comment. So I don't see the relevance of the J/L thing. Thus, I still don't see how this argument makes one ship more relevant than the other.

[Alfonzo]

Oh dear, this thread seems to be dying :sad:. What is the world coming to? :no:

[AvadaKedavra]

Stic

Hmmm...do you really think (I'm not gonna 3 step you...) JKR was "rather harsh" and displayed "strong exasperation" in her answer when the very first part of her answer was "lol" , i.e. laughing out loud?

No, she wasn't that bad. It was my inbuilt "eloquent spin machine" running out of hand. :lol:

The questioner was being humorous with the *sigh* and Jo obviously found it funny, hence the "lol" at the begin of the reply.

Agreed.

The ?! I find to be deliberate confusion. Jo's neither giving :tu: nor :td:

Disagree. With your "3-step" theory, it's acceptable and plausible because you found evidence to back it up. You gave us an excellent example of JKR using the exact same 'trickery' in her books. You gave us evidence why JKR might have used the "3-step" trick. Here, there is no reason why we shouldn't take the surely?! at face value- that it displays mild (that better?) exasperation.

What difference? In the first one Jo answered with a lol (laughing out loud) at the beginning and in the second one there's "laughter" at the beginning.

Perhaps I should have explained a bit clearer. I meant the tone in which JKR tells the questioner that [she can't say anything], and that [there are enough clues].

She can't say anything:

Not saying.

compared to

I’m not going to say. I can’t say, can I?


There are enough clues:

but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!

compared to

I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject. That is all I’m going to say. You will have to read between the lines on that one.

With the Harmonian question, JKR's answer is much more concise, cutting and she shows mild exasperation. With the Heronian answer, JKR's answer is more explanatory and apolgetic.

Yeah, but she doesn't say clearly to work out what. She answers to a Harmonian "you've had enough clues by now, surely?!" and answers to a Heron "I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject". Sounds like the same to me. Jo tells us she won't say and we should search the books for clues that lead to the right answer.

But if you take the tone of her quotes in hand, it does give us a little insight. In both answers, JKR tells us that there *are* enough clues to know the answer. But when an Harmonian asks, JKR is concise, and displays mild exasperation. When a Heronian asks, JKR's manner is noticeably more welcoming and patient. Why two different tones? Because one has got it right, and one has got it wrong.

Furthermore, the mild exasperation relates very well with the "I can't believe" bit. The apolgetic and explanatory tone relates very well with JKR going on (in the "I can't believe" quote) to explain why she won't answer. Eerily reminiscent of "I can't say, can I?", isn't it? That's partially why I think JKR is being genuine.

Harry missed a piece and makes a wrong connection, he thinks Krum simply wanted to draw Hermy'a attention back to the fact that he had just rescued her from the lake.
Jo gave us that missing piece only at the end of GoF. Jo never wrote Harry putting it back in.

And the significance of Hermione turning to Harry immediately (or very soon after Krum's confession) is nullified because:

The depth of Hermione's romantic feelings for Krum seems to be quite shallow. (There are two JKR quotes supporting this, by the way :rotfl:). She doesn't seem to be really in love with him, and should feel less 'obligation' to "coo" after Krum, especially when pitted in comparision with Harry.

Harry is no normal 'male friend'. He and Hermione, along with Ron, of course, have been through so much. They all love each other's socks off, and would die for each other. It is this extraordinary scope of friendship that Krum simply can't compete with. JKR continues this trend in OOTP, where she has Harry unthinkingly go and meet Hermione when he is supposed to be having a date with Cho. But does Harry have any feelings for Hermione? No. So why should Hermione have feelings for Harry also in GOF? What evidence is there to support this?

(The problem with the trio's powerful friendship is that we need extra proof in order to be sure, or even to form a suspicion.)

Harry and the readers are missing something here and that something is Hermione's direct reaction to Fleur having kissed Harry.
What if the actual scene that Harry and the reader didn't see in its entirety was this:

Is there any proof or evidence that there is a '2.)'? No. Not even the absence of a period from the passage is good enough. I'm sorry, but this is really conjuring up stuff from nowhere. And what makes me even more sceptical of the 'existence' of such a '2.)' is the strong correlation between this scene and the one at the end of the book. Fleur kisses Ron, Hermione looks simply furious. Fleur smiles at Ron, Hermione scowls. With such correlation, why are we even looking for a '2.)'?

My view:The books can be worked out. The books + Jo's 3step/nudge nudge people into the wrong direction -style quotes together are one tough son-of-a-gun.

If H/Hr happens, I will have been tricked by the greatest ever literary trick ever. No shame in that. You, on the other hand (if R/Hr happens) will have been too clever for your own good. :lol:

Signing out,

Avada

P.S

I think this debate is really constructive, since we're actually breaking new ground (not in terms of discovery, but rather in terms of debating material). :tu:

[Moonstruck]

With the Harmonian question, JKR's answer is much more concise, cutting and she shows mild exasperation. With the Heronian answer, JKR's answer is more explanatory and apolgetic.

Forgive me on cutting into your debate, but I have a question. Isn't the Harmony question from a chat interview? If so, how are you supposed to know that JK is showing mild exasperation? It's words on a computer that she is typing in. As we all should know, it's hard to understand what people are feeling behind words.

[Alfonzo]

Oh dear, this thread seems to be dying :sad:. What is the world coming to? :no:
I actually take that back - AK and stic, your debate is good to read. You both post very thoughtful and well considered arguments, which make me wish I could construct arguments like that :).

Forgive me on cutting into your debate, but I have a question. Isn't the Harmony question from a chat interview? If so, how are you supposed to know that JK is showing mild exasperation? It's words on a computer that she is typing in. As we all should know, it's hard to understand what people are feeling behind words.
That is true, but the choice of language can often convey the feelings of the person in question. In this case, it's as if JK is a little surprised that we haven't got her point (shown by the clues). As to what that point is, that is debateable :).

[daz]

Stic its fun to read your posts, your a good debater.

[Alfonzo]

Stic its fun to read your posts, your a good debater.
So are you daz, I just happen to disagree with your viewpoint ;).

[Moonstruck]

That is true, but the choice of language can often convey the feelings of the person in question. In this case, it's as if JK is a little surprised that we haven't got her point (shown by the clues). As to what that point is, that is debateable :).

But again, people can often misinterpet the meaning behind the words. We can't rule that out so we can't be definite that is JK's meaning. The only person who can carfly the answer is JK (as always).

Now I've got to go before my brother drags me out of here and breaks my arm. :p Bye!

[Alfonzo]

But again, people can often misinterpet the meaning behind the words. We can't rule that out so we can't be definite that is JK's meaning. The only person who can carfly the answer is JK (as always).

Now I've got to go before my brother drags me out of here and breaks my arm. :p Bye!
Ciao! True, we can't ultimately know what she meant, but as I've said before, we don't settle for that, and so we put together our arguments based on what we think she's trying to say. It is interesting seeing how other people come to a different understanding from reading the same text.

[stic]

AvadaKedavra wrote: In both answers, JKR tells us that there *are* enough clues to know the answer. But when an Harmonian asks, JKR is concise, and displays mild exasperation. When a Heronian asks, JKR's manner is noticeably more welcoming and patient. So you say this:I’m not going to say. I can’t say, can I? I think that, by now, I’ve given quite a lot of clues on the subject doesn't show mild exasperation but this:lol Not saying... but you've had enough clues by now, surely?! does??? :shrug:
This doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.
I don't see any substantial difference between both quotes, be it in tone (both times laughter) or be it in informational content (both times Jo doesn't say); and I don't agree with your argument about the "mild indignation".
And the significance of Hermione turning to Harry immediately (or very soon after Krum's confession) is nullified because The depth of Hermione's romantic feelings for Krum seems to be quite shallow. (...) She doesn't seem to be really in love with him(...)
Harry is no normal 'male friend'. (...) It is this extraordinary scope of friendship that Krum simply can't compete with. I brought up the example to demonstrate how Jo tricks Harry along with the reader. She omits a little piece of information from a scene and the scene appears differently; Harry and the readers come to wrong conclusions. Is there any proof or evidence that there is a '2.)'? No. Do you have any proof that the missing piece doesn't exist? No.
So, we can't trust Jo's quotes and we have the question whether that missing piece exists or not. How can you be sure without considering Jo's quotes that it doesn't exist? How can you be sure that the 3 big R/Hr hints aren't 3 big pseudo-hints when each one has a big enough back-door for the whole fandom to walk through? :huh:
When you can't be sure about Jo's quotes and the 3 R/Hr hints/pseudo-hints in GoF,
how do you then judge each other ship-relevant moment from the books?

Did Ron really make up his accusations at Hermione or was he dead certain?
It is canon that Ron believed Hermione was bottom of the barrel date-wise along with other losers like Neville and wouldn't be able to get a real date for herself. Ron had other girls in mind, popular & stunningly pretty ones like Fleur.
Ron didn't care if they were actually horrible.
When Ron got turned down by Fleur and had no date it was almost too late, he would have lost his face. But he remembered: "There's still always-reliable Hermione who fulfills at least the minimum requirements for a date: She's female. She will help me out of that embarrassing , date-less situation."
But Hermione turned him down and told Ron she had in fact a date. Ron believed she was lying.
When at the Jule Ball Hermione turned up suddenly with the date of the evening, Ron came to the only conclusion logical to him: Superstar Krum would never date a girl like Hermione just like that, he must have had a very different agenda: To use her to get inside info on Harry in order to win the tournament.
It is canon that hermione took Ron's accusations seriously. It is canon that it took Ron until the end of GoF to finally trust Krum.

The avid heron will quickly disregard all of this, because Jo said in some interview that....yadda, yadda, yadda, so R/Hr is going to happen in the first place anyway. Then, analyzing the scene..... Ron...uhm...was jealous and had wanted Hermione in the first place.

:td: :td:


daz wrote:Stic its fun to read your posts, your a good debaterThanksssssss.......

[srenne1982]

I would like to jump on the Harry/Ron ship.

[FoxyDoxy]

This thread does tend to lag a little now and then doesn't it. But I suppose thats natural. There's been little new info for over a year and there are are only so many times that you can debate the deffinition of platonic and the dreaded 'obvious' argument.
Still well done for keeping it going. Nice to see the master debaters still at work. I have given up for now I'm afraid. I don't have to suck a lemon to know it's sour. I've read the books formed an opinion debated it and still haven't had my mind changed.
I'll wait for new info before diving back in but for now I'm jumping off the love boats! See you me hearties arr!

[Alfonzo]

I don't see any substantial difference between both quotes, be it in tone (both times laughter) or be it in informational content (both times Jo doesn't say); and I don't agree with your argument about the "mild indignation"
Hope you don't mind me jumping in, but there is a difference between the quotes - 'I can’t say, can I?' is very different to 'but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!'. Think for a second about how they would be said, visualise Jo saying them, say them aloud yourself... 'I can't say, can I?' gives an entirely different tone to 'but you've had enough clues by now, surely?!' - the first gives the impression that Jo is biting her lip almost, trying to hold back something, whereas the latter seems to almost take a position that we shouldn't even need to ask that question, and you'd usually use that kind of wording to dismiss something, for example "Oh, you don't believe that rubbish, surely?!". It just needs a little close examination ;).

I would like to jump on the Harry/Ron ship.
Good stuff! Welcome aboard the HMS Heron! :D

:welcome:

Don't be afraid to put forward your opinion, but everyone is really friendly in here anyway, so no need to worry :).

[djm]

About a year ago I was convinced that Harry will end up with Cho, but JKR herself buried my hope (@World Book Day).

By now, I think Harry will (if he's alive after book 7) end up alone. So why does this SOB think that way?

Cho is out of the way (even I'm almost refined). Since Harry is at Hogwarts in b7 he needs a girl friend staying nearly 24/7 at his side. But Cho finishes school in HBP. Even if they're together, Cho can't be the support Harry needs.

Hermione: I was never a supporter of the H/H-Shippers. I think JKR never had that ship in mind because in my opinion it became clear in CoS that they'll be friends "forever". And from book to book a possible love faded away. [add your favorite non H/H quote here].

Luna: Come on. This isn't the Harry Horror Picture Show. She had her five minutes of fame in OotP but I don't think that she will reappear in HBP on a big scale.

Ginny: I'm not quite sure about her. She's could be the one but the hints for this love also decreased. Ever since Ginny appeared in CoS she only had eyes for Harry but in OotP she turned herself to other guys. Sure Ginny's now pretty mature but I don't know how to interpret this. On the one hand she could now be ready for the love of her live (Harry) on the other hand she could have closed the case Harry once and for all.

All in all I'm tending towards the possibility of Harry ending up alone.

[rowansjet]

Originally Posted by srenne1982
I would like to jump on the Harry/Ron ship.Good stuff! Welcome aboard the HMS Heron! HANG ON! Are you telling me that all this time I've been a Heron, I was actually supporting Harry/Ron!?

Well I never... :rotfl: :p :rotfl:
Luna: Come on. This isn't the Harry Horror Picture Show. She had her five minutes of fame in OotP but I don't think that she will reappear in HBP on a big scale.The Harry Horror what-now?! Excuse me?

Well, i just happen to disagree with you on that whoever you are, especially considering that i've no idea what Luna has to do with any picture show, Rocky Horror, Harry Horror, or otherwise.

What do you mean anyway? I'm very confused here.

[Deevo]

I would like to jump on the Harry/Ron ship.
Good stuff! Welcome aboard the HMS Heron! :D

:welcome:

I hope that was a typo. :scared:
(Highlight was mine by the way)

Don't be afraid to put forward your opinion, but everyone is really friendly in here anyway, so no need to worry :).
That's true enough.

[Alfonzo]

HANG ON! Are you telling me that all this time I've been a Heron, I was actually supporting Harry/Ron!?

Well I never... :rotfl: :p :rotfl:
Oops! Oh dear! No, The HMS Heron is Hermione and Ron... :lol: srenne1982 did you mean Hermione and Ron? If not, this is a family forum so don't post things like that... :no:

[sergorat]

What do you think: would Ron/Cho be possible?

[djm]

What do you think: would Ron/Cho be possible?

Hm...everything is possible! ;)

But i don't see any connection between them so: no!

[Snidget66]

Based on evidence, the couple that is most likely to get together is...

Ron and Hermione.

But everything isn't always what it seems to be.

[AvadaKedavra]

Stic

This doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.
I don't see any substantial difference between both quotes, be it in tone (both times laughter) or be it in informational content (both times Jo doesn't say); and I don't agree with your argument about the "mild indignation".

Well, we've reached a dead end on this specific line of debate. My honest opinion on it is that the surely?! in the Harmonian quote gives JKR's mood as being mildly exasperated, at the very least. In fact, you used a better word for it: mild indignation. I don't get the same feeling expressed with the Heronian quote; it's almost like JKR is beseeching the audience to understand why she can't answer the question fully. Her tone is more gentle. Alfonzo puts it very nicely:

the first gives the impression that Jo is biting her lip almost, trying to hold back something, whereas the latter seems to almost take a position that we shouldn't even need to ask that question, and you'd usually use that kind of wording to dismiss something, for example "Oh, you don't believe that rubbish, surely?!".

My opinion only, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. Only time will tell.

I brought up the example to demonstrate how Jo tricks Harry along with the reader. She omits a little piece of information from a scene and the scene appears differently; Harry and the readers come to wrong conclusions.

Correct, but the end product is minimal, if there is one. The trick does little for the Harmonian cause. If it could be expanded upon: for example, *that* conversation at the end of GOF between Hermione and Krum can be expanded upon as Hermione telling Krum that she actually loves [ENTER Harry/Ron], then I'd be more wary of it. But with this 'unrevealed piece', there's nothing to be expanded upon. In fact, my opinion is that this little 'trick', if it can be called that, was for the sole purpose of the Skeeter Animagus mystery, which was eventually resolved.

Do you have any proof that the missing piece doesn't exist? No.

I think innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven Innocent. I don't think even JKR expects us to think that deeply. So until you can prove JKR is guilty of omitting *that* missing piece, I don't think there's a case.

So, we can't trust Jo's quotes

I believe there is one quote that is incredibly difficult to find any sort of backdoor in, if you wish to remain as objective as possible. It also has powerful connections to the text. I'll post my analysis of it if you like.

Did Ron really make up his accusations at Hermione or was he dead certain?

I think he really did. The one quote that I mentioned above pretty much makes it certain that Ron was making up his accusations. Besides, you don't even need a quote to prove it, the evidence is there in the text. I'll show you, if you like (either quote or text, or both).

It is canon that Ron believed Hermione was bottom of the barrel date-wise along with other losers like Neville and wouldn't be able to get a real date for herself. Ron had other girls in mind, popular & stunningly pretty ones like Fleur.
Ron didn't care if they were actually horrible.

It is also canon that JKR had Hermione take particular offense at this, such to the extent that she *completely* lost it and ended up storming off in a rage. Why be SO angry? JKR didn't just write this once, she wrote it twice.

It is canon that hermione took Ron's accusations seriously.

And it is also canon that Hermione quickly suspected what the real problem was, and offered him a "solution" (her words, not mine).

The avid heron will quickly disregard all of this, because Jo said in some interview that....yadda, yadda, yadda, so R/Hr is going to happen in the first place anyway. Then, analyzing the scene..... Ron...uhm...was jealous and had wanted Hermione in the first place.

No. I had already decided, quite firmly, that Ron's ulterior motive for his disgraceful behaviour was because he, deep down, liked Hermione. You are right in saying that he believed the reason why he was so angry was because he thought Hermione was 'fraternising with the enemy'. But we all know that he's just bullsh*tting himself, employing mental excuses to stave off what he doesn't want to come to terms with: that he does like Hermione. Like JKR said: He doesn't realize it yet/. :lol:

Signing out,

Avada

[Snidget66]

"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." -[I]Matt Groening[I]

This is Snidget66 signing out. Goodnight.
(Or gooday to those of you who don't live in North America!)

[Oro]

JKR's mood as being mildly exasperated,

Don't forget that in those big chats with the fans, she chooses the questions.

[rolandofgilead]

Just thought I'd put this out there... Anyone else feel that they could care less if R/Hr happens, (although they think it's probable), as long as H/Hr doesn't happen? I really just support R/Hr since I really can't see H/Hr happening and R/Hr prevents H/Hr from happneing. Anyone else think this or am I alone in my thoughts?

[Tzigone]

Not me. I see R/H happening, and I like it, so I ship it. All I have against H/H is that I do not see the basis for it and it would deny R/H, which I do see. And it might drive a wedge or alienate Ron, which I would much dislike.

[AvadaKedavra]

I have to admit that it would make me physically sick if I have to read H/Hr- I've attempted tests with H/Hr fics, and I haven't survived through one yet. I think I might be allergic to it.:lol:

[Baroness]

H/Hr would completely ruin the story for me, personally. It just doesn't feel right. Plus, the pair together would probably bore me.

[Miss ERB]

Just thought I'd put this out there... Anyone else feel that they could care less if R/Hr happens, (although they think it's probable), as long as H/Hr doesn't happen? I really just support R/Hr since I really can't see H/Hr happening and R/Hr prevents H/Hr from happneing. Anyone else think this or am I alone in my thoughts?


I want R/Hr to happe because I love them together. But if they dont( But I doubt they arent) I still wouldn't want H/Hr. I'd rather them all just stay a no romance trio if that turns out to be the case. I really can't stand H/Hr. I agree with AvadaKedavra..I cannot stand Hr/H fanfics. I mean I had to take a break from reading when Cho and Harry kissed because I hated them together too, but not half as much as Hr/H. I dont know how long a break I would need if Hr/H got together.

[Shylah]

I've been R/Hr shiper since GoF, and an H/G shipper because of that. It seems that the two are symbiotic. I'm not anti-H/Hr, just pro-R/Hr... I think that's where a lot of H/G spawns from. You want Harry with the best person (aside from Hermioine whom you see with Ron), and who else is better for him than Ginny? She's kind, may understand him better then we know, and she's a Weasley. R/Hr is also permanently connected with H/G IMO. That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :p

[Miss ERB]

H/Hr would completely ruin the story for me, personally. It just doesn't feel right. Plus, the pair together would probably bore me.


*nods in agreement* Maybe not completely ruin it though, but partially. I guess I would get over it eventually if it happend. I never even considered Hr/H being together even before Goblet of Fire. Although it wasnt until GOF I realized R/Hr had potential. I've always liked H/G.

[Firebolt2004]

Just thought I'd put this out there... Anyone else feel that they could care less if R/Hr happens, (although they think it's probable), as long as H/Hr doesn't happen? I really just support R/Hr since I really can't see H/Hr happening and R/Hr prevents H/Hr from happneing. Anyone else think this or am I alone in my thoughts?


I think this way too. I am OK if Ron pairs off with Luna or Hermione with anyone else but I am vehemently against H/ Hr.

[srenne1982]

B]srenne1982[/B] did you mean Hermione and Ron? If not, this is a family forum so don't post things like that... :no:

Gay families are families too.

[FlyingPhoenix]

I see, that explain's a lot. Seriously, I can't read R/Hr fics but that doesn't mean I can't read it in canon. Mind you I actually can because :lol: I wouldn't get as much as in most fics to see of it.
Aside this, its like in debates I firmly believe that JKR can write R/Hr better as you can so do I believe I could argue for R/Hr better as most of you. At least that much it makes actually sense. Just me though.

[Miss ERB]

Gay families are families too.



Yes very true, but these are kids books JK's writing and she isnt going to have any same sex couples in them. So there is really no point in debating them thats all.

[DragonChamber7]

ok lemme just say Hermione/Ron don't have much of a chance. Everyone already believes its gonna happen. I'm sure you all have good reasons too. But rons boring. Hermione needs adventure. Ron can't afford it. (NO offense) So lets just go with the unexplainable

And this...is why we made the Weasley Defense League...I see it in most H/Hr shippers, they usually bag on The Weasleys...Sorry, but Ron may be broke...but does Hermione seem the type to care? And Ron...Ron's the comedian, he has his times of bravery. Like the first Book...he was the Knight. Yes of course Harry is the ...well...Harry Potter, Mr. Hero...but not all girls fall for the hero...Ron took the Pollyjuice potion...as did Harry. Ron just is a bit more of a coward then Harry...but wouldnt Hermione also enjoy a guy whos around her mostly...like Ron. Though we're not too clear on what guys Hermione likes...but as I always say Long Live R/Hr.

[Baroness]

Ron is exactly what Hermione needs, or rather he will be once he's grown up just a little more. She's sort of a stiff character (and in my opinion, so is Harry....another reason why it wouldn't be entertaining if the two were together, IMO) and Ron is loose and laid back. I think they would level each other off. She'd push him to work harder and he would to make her happy, but he would help her to take a load off once in a while and have some fun.

[DragonChamber7]

I couldnt agree more Baroness

[Lila V Brious]

Tonks and Lupin
Harry and Ginny/Luna - I have no clue
Hermione and Ron - Sorry it's the truth
........that's about it

[FireAngel73]

I'm Ginny with Harry and Ron with Hermy all the way!!! oh and I also suport Remus and Tonks and Dumbledore and McGonagle(sp?) too, but not as much...