Trend of Darkness Through the Series

[ledtolkien]

I can't help but notice how much darker The Goblet of Fire was compared to The Philosopher's Stone. When I began to read this series, I always assumed that it would end happily with no good/main characters dying. Now I am not so sure. In fact, Rowling has already said that one will die in the next book. I think this growing darkness really adds to the series. Let's hope that the trend stays in the upcoming books.

[Cat]

I thought The Prisoner of Azkaban was a bit 'darker' than The Goblet of Fire. The Goblet of Fire had incredibly sinister moments but there were more humorous moments as well.

[ledtolkien]

I agree. PoA had a more overall dark feel, while GoF had more darkness thrown about the book. This may be just because GoF is almost twice as long as PoA.

[Cat]

Maybe. Or maybe the sense of humour is developing along with the dark themes? I enjoy the humour and I found Goblet of Fire the funniest.

[dorcasderr]

The books MUST get darker because JKR is writing about evil. It is refreshing that she doesn't dress it up in a red suit with a pitchfork but exposes it for what it is. I also heartily applaud the development of the humor in the books and not just for comic relief.

[Cat]

Yes, it's a well-mixed cocktail that is becoming oddly more intoxicating... :D

[fawkes_the_phoenix]

LOL...I like the humor too:coolblue:

[Aoife Diggle]

The books are definately becoming more entertaining as they progress. GoF is probably the most serious so far seeing as how Voldemort has returned but it is definately the funniest of the 4!

[Emilia]

I always felt that the whole point of getting to see Harry grow up, is that he has to accept the world around him changing, and with the return of Lord Voldemort, everything gets a lot darker. I mean, the murdering psychopath is back.

Hasn't JK said that as Harry grows he learns to handle more and more, things he wouldn't have been able to do at eleven, are a different matter at sixteen, and as she is such a skilled writer, she doesn't dress the evil up and make it not scary. That's (well one of the things) I really love about the HP series.

[Gandalf]

Personally, I just love this whole darkness and evil thing in Harry Potter. IMO it makes the books seem more "grown-up". If the whole series of seven had the same amount of darkness as PS, then they'd only be "kiddish" evil, which is like The Wicked Witch of the West, The Evil Queen, Scar, that Octopus thingy from the Little Mermaid, The Bogey Man and Santa Clause. The "grown-up" darkness of the book makes it more suited to adults and teenagers to read (that way I won't feel embarresed by reading it, but why should I?).

[ledtolkien]

One can only imagine how dark the last book will be. Harry Potter is definitely not going to be for kids in the future.

[Bilbo]

I am inclined to agree that the books have gotten darker and it isn't for the worst.Originally posted by dorcasderr
The books MUST get darker because JKR is writing about evil. It is refreshing that she doesn't dress it up in a red suit with a pitchfork but exposes it for what it is.

However, I must argue with the statement that PoA is darker than GoF. GoF is much darker. We witness Voldemort casually killing people, the Dementors emerge as a force, the trial of Crouch jr and others, the treatment of the Longbottoms. The rise of Voldemort. Need I say more?

[Weatherby]

All four books were dark. They are getting darker because now we know not everyone is going to survive the turmoil. Is it better that Rowling told us someone was going to die though? (Sure I looked at all the websites for a spoiler... but death?)
I didn't expect it to happen in GoF so it was more shocking..
I'll be holding my breath throughout OotP expecting to someone to kick it.

I found GoF to be more depressing because Harry didn't have Ron on his side. Even after Harry forgave him I was still mad.

The books are much "darker" fare than a lot of books children read. or movies. Lucky kids. Where was HP when I was 10?
The Disney movies I watched as a child had the baddies conveniently thrown over a cliff. The heroes didn't actually have to kill them so there was no guilt. I hated that.

[Cat]

Originally posted by Gandalf
Personally, I just love this whole darkness and evil thing in Harry Potter. IMO it makes the books seem more "grown-up". If the whole series of seven had the same amount of darkness as PS, then they'd only be "kiddish" evil, which is like The Wicked Witch of the West, The Evil Queen, Scar, that Octopus thingy from the Little Mermaid, The Bogey Man and Santa Clause. The "grown-up" darkness of the book makes it more suited to adults and teenagers to read (that way I won't feel embarresed by reading it, but why should I?).

You don't think a corrupt man with an evil man's face on the back of his head is a little 'dark'?

Originally posted by Bilbo
However, I must argue with the statement that PoA is darker than GoF. GoF is much darker. We witness Voldemort casually killing people, the Dementors emerge as a force, the trial of Crouch jr and others, the treatment of the Longbottoms. The rise of Voldemort. Need I say more?

You can't actually state for fact which is darker, Bilbo.

[xicanti]

I think the books seem to be getting quite a bit darker as they go along, though of course there are bits of both darkness and humour in each. I really like this trend; I find that it adds tension and more emotional impact to the books.

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

Originally posted by Bilbo
However, I must argue with the statement that PoA is darker than GoF. GoF is much darker. We witness Voldemort casually killing people, the Dementors emerge as a force, the trial of Crouch jr and others, the treatment of the Longbottoms. The rise of Voldemort. Need I say more?

True, but these are all specific incidences, and they're contrasted with some very "bright" scenes (the Quidditch World Cup, Harry's triumph during the first task, the romantic subplots, etc.) In Azkaban, the threat of Sirius Black and the Dementors hangs directly over everything, even the happy moments (Harry's trip to Hogsmeade, his growing friendship with Lupin, the Quidditch games, etc.). The threat of Voldemort will probably serve a similar function in the later books, which I think will help to make them darker than any amount of bloodshed could.

[Fenrir]

It doesn't get much darker than Lord Voldemort's ressurection. That was an amazing chapter, I get goosebumps when I read it.

"The blood of a servant...shed willingly..."

That was not for kids. He cut his arm off! That is dark, that is exciting, that glues you to the book. You try to hurry up to see how it ends, yet you hang on to every detail mentioned, and a small movie in your head is playing. That are the top moments of reading, and the Harry Potter books are among the select few that give me those moments.

I am not sure if that's the exact quote, my copy of GoF is in my sleeping sister's room. Darn it! :D Correct me if I'm wrong.

Edit: HTML doesn't work in posts? What about BBcode?

[Cat]

I want to know why he cut the whole hand off. 'Flesh of the servant' - he could have just nicked a bit out of his arm. Even an ear would be better than the hand! But I suppose 'flesh of the servant' is a dolled up metaphor for the hand. It is the hand that does the work of the servant.

[Bilbo]

I am not one to admit I am wrong. But perhaps I jumped the gun a little too soon with my theory that GoF is scarier than PoA. After all we are first introduced to the dementors and at the end of one chapter, Harry is fainting as they draw closer. The Grim (along with Trelawney) is constantly haunting Harry. Harry also deals with the annoying mirror at the Leaky Cauldorn and is confronted with his parent's death.

[Gandalf]

Originally posted by Cat
You don't think a corrupt man with an evil man's face on the back of his head is a little 'dark'?

I didn't say that PS wasn't dark. I had goosebumps when I read htat part (I was only 11 at the time). All I was saying is that it's a "disney" style dark. The type of scariness you'd expect in a disney film. But the stories get darker as they go along, which I love for the reason that the books seem more "grown up" than than children's fairy tale type stories where the villain dies in the end, the handsome prince get's the beautiful princess and everyone lives happily ever after without anyone getting killed off.

[Sherlock Holmes]

What I like about the darkness is that it grows as the series grows, and as Harry grows. As everyone else has noticed, the first had only a shadow of evil, sort of Disney-esque. The darkness becomes more prominent as the series continues, until by the end of GoF, it is VERY dark. The resurrection of Voldemort is one of the most disturbing, even terrifying, scenes I've ever read. So, the books are growing up just as Harry and Co. are.

Also, it just occurred to me that this darkness we're discussing is exactly how Hagrid and Lupin described Voldemort's original climb to power. This time we are sharing the experience, which is really fascinating. Most books begin with full-grown Evil Overlords, but in Harry Potter we see it with the heroes---we even see the Evil Overlord himself, before he became the Evil Overlord.

[mrHankey]

If the series is to grow, we need to have some real explanation for the complexities of the darkness. Why is it there? If the books are truly 'grown' and not kids' stuff, we need to be given a chance to understand Voldemort's and the Death Eaters' motivation, don't we? Even if (especially if) we disagree with their reasoning.

Wasn't there a hinting of something in CoS -- when Dumbledore was recalling how Riddle was a well-liked and handsome kid and that most people don't know the Riddle --> Voldemort progression? Dumbledore gave a too brief accounting of Riddle having gone off on some travels and even physically looking different (uglier, I suppose) when he returned.

[Sherlock Holmes]

Yes, and I would personally like the explanation (which I think will be forthcoming) to be more than simply greed for power and contempt of mudbloods. Voldemort himself might be pure evil, if such a thing is possible, but most of his followers likely have mixed motives and have their own agendas and reasons for following Voldemort. I'd like to see that explained in more detail, although keep in mind that we are limited in all of this by Harry's POV. We can't know more than Harry himself does.

[Bilbo]

What's wrong with Disney darkness? The witch from Snow White still gives me nightmares and I'm almost 19!

[Cat]

:lol:

I agree with Bilbo there, anyway, but I want to add that I don't even think the scariest of Disney cartoons would allow the disturbing imagery of a man with an evil face on the back of his head. Or maybe that's just the kind of thing I find freaky.

[Weatherby]

Perhaps PoA is scarier because it deals with fear of fear..

[Bilbo]

I'm inclined to agree with an earlier post...GoF may have scarier moments but in PoA it is more concentrated. The Dementors or Sirius or the death of Harry's parents are all back to back.

And quite frankly, the loss of Lupin as DADA, is something hard to cope with.

[Tarawyn]

I have the strange feeling that I'll be hanging around this area a bunch. I like these discussions.

There is a progression of darkness throughout the series, which is expected. Part of it is due to Harry's age, part of it to general plot, and perhaps a third part to the progression of Rowling's writing. Now, for the usual list...

Philosopher's/Sorcerer's Stone: without a doubt, this is the least dark of the four. The given dangers were known to very few people, which diluted it. And Harry, however determined he was, knew very little about how dangerous Voldemort was, and didn't see any other shadows that were lurking in the background. Other bits are quite miniscule.

Chamber of Secrets: while darker than PS/SS, I wouldn't say that this is a particularly dark book. The Heir of Slytherin was spooky, particularly because they knew almost nothing of what was going on, and the random attacks added to this, but there weren't enough of these attacks to stimulate extreme fear. Also, I think that Rowling's style, at that point, might have done something to the fear factor. The students and teachers could have been much more afraid, maybe should have been, but they weren't.

Prisoner of Azkaban: I agree with Rowena with the book being dark as a constant - the shadows slipped into everything, the fear spread to everyone we spoke to, and there really weren't any moments of pure humor as the two that might have qualified also had the potential to get Harry into very big trouble. And Weatherby, you made a good point with fear of fear. Darkness is measured by the degree of the events first, and reactions second. If there's a mass murderer in town and everyone's laughing, the situation is morbid, but not dark. The fear of fear is twice as strong as the fear of anything else. A good combination.

Goblet of Fire: once again, Rowena hits my thoughts - the dark in GoF is stronger than in PoA, but with some completely lighthearted moments, it simply doesn't seem as bad as it should. For every half-amusement in PoA, you have two real and strong ones in GoF. Overall, it seems to fit reality better than any shown previously.

Off of that - in future books, I think we'll be seeing things akin to PoA and GoF to a higher degree. The darkness is going to be thicker, but there is going to be some efforts at a light heart, because literature dies without it.

[Puffskein]

One thing that might make COS less dark than it could be is the fact that we are invited to laugh at the monster's previous victim. That makes me a bit uncomfortable, but at least it contrasts with the more real threats in the later books.

I read a review of the Lemony Snicket books (which I haven't read) in a student newspaper that referred to "the sickly sweet adventures of Harry Potter and his happy friends". That's ridiculous, isn't it? Especially talking about POA and GOF, where the darkness is made more real and there aren't neat happy endings.

[FatalBeauty]

I think the books definitely get darker with each one. Sorcerer's Stone, with a couple mild exceptions, was a very happy book, all about Harry enjoying his new life as a wizard. Then in Chamber of Secrets more evil comes about and Harry's own classmates and one of his best friends are petrified. Prisoner of Azkaban took a leap and was a lot darker than Chamber of Secrets. And then Goblet of Fire, even though it had a lot of light-hearted moments, I have to say was still the darkest.

[Perdita]

I think it depends on what is considered dark?

In PoA, nobody dies. At least, I can't remember anyone dying.

In GoF, however, we meet Cedric, learn that he is a nice person, start to root for him (not that much), and then he gets killed.

If you look at it that way, then GoF is the darker of the two.

But, i still feel that PoA was the darker volume because the pressure was on Harry. He was the one who was put on the spot and had to decide whether or not he would become a murderer. It was so easy and all was laid out for him in the Shrieking Shack.

Harry plays a more active role in the plot in PoA than in GoF, and to me, that is what makes PoA the darker, and more enduring volume thus far.

[Trinity]

I don't know, perhaps there is something wrong with my dark-o-meter, but the books were like kids stories for me all along- no darkness to speak of. Until I hit the third task in GoF it was like I was reading a whole other story in a whole other world- it was so evil and creepy it actually made me scared! Ok it was late at night and I was home alone... but still. I think that is where the books took a turn towards the dark and if jkr continues in that fashion and doesn't go back to the fun fairy tale approach (which I enjoyed) book 5 will be quite dark, which will be good too.

[RAiNbOw_BriTe]

I had never thought abou the Cho part like that. I don't think JK meant to put it in as a dirty line. I just thought that Harry felt embarrassed about dreaming about liking Cho and he didn't want Ron to know he wanted to compete in the tournament.

[Hannibal "Drax" Lecter]

In relation to Wormtail cutting his hand off, I think the most hilarious relation to that is when Voldemort foreshadows this event in the opening chapter by telling him "I will allow you to perform an essential task for me, one that many of my followers would give their right hand for..."

:devil:

[barnowl]

I feel there is a progressive darkness in the Harry Potter books. I feel each book builds upon the darkness in the previous books and adds new themes that Harry must cope with. I think it is important to remember that we are living the Hogwarts experience through Harry’s eyes. Each year we are living his fears. Each year we grow older with him.
In book one we deal with Harry’s fear of the unknown. He does not know about his past or who he is. He has never seen or lived through the time of Voldemort, his enemy. He is afraid he will not be able to succeed. It is scary because there is so much to learn, and he must be brave when he possibly did not ever have to be before.
In book two we find it built upon. He does not know if he is the Heir of Slytherin for a while. He is still learning about his past, about his parents and where he comes from. He is facing an unknown assailant, possibly a student. The fear of the unknown is still in him as Dobby continues to pull him deeper into a mystery he knows nothing about. Harry faces the possible betrayal of friends in Hagrid- the person he first learned about himself from. The one that rescued him. He finds that his teachers cannot always fix things, they do not always know the answers. He deals with prejudice in the wizzard world- against his friends- and must in some ways face the imperfectionof the world he now lives in. He prepares himself for a time when Dumbledore may not be able to guard him.
In book three he has all of those issues plus the fear of fear itself. His issues with betrayal compound in Sirius. He is forced again to face his past, as he learns more about his parents deaths. He hear them dying. He must face another fear in the "grim" he sees. He also learns that the future is a scary thing, the unknown. He copes with the predictions of his dreams and of professor Trelawny.
In book four the darkness culminates in Voldemort’s return. His fear of death. His fear of failure, both to his frineds and in the tri-wizzard tournament. He is afraid of disappointing the people he cares about. He deals with the rejection of his fellow students. His fear of Cho rejecting him. He has dreams that he wants to see come true, but he knows may not. He must sacrifice personal glory for the sake of goodness. He is abandoned by his best friend in a time when he needs him most. He is fearful of Sirius’s capture. He leans more of the past. His visions become more clear and accurate. He must face helplessness in the face of death and danger many times, when he needs a solution but there is none to be had. He feels death of a good person first hand for the first time. The is a lot more hoplessness in book four.
I feel these are also reasons why each book has more moments of comedy, more fun in them, is that like life, it is more funny, but ore dark as you get older. Even Harry recognizes that as he gives the money the F&G. He says they will need more laughs. However, the overall themes are more dark as each book progresses and Harry deals with more fears as he gets older.

[DocHollidaywe]

JK said the upcomming books would be getting darker and scarier

[Lady Greyjoy]

My answer is an emphatic YES :D

Now let me qualify this answer, i want a Harry Potter that examines human emotions of course..and I think this would be acomplished best with Harry's troubles increasing as Voldemort's powers do.

Any thoughts on this matter?

[Llopin]

I definetively want it to get darker. The whole situation gets darker, the plot must also get darker. But I still want to have humour and good spirit, not everything dark and depressing.

[lanifiel]

I dunno if darker is the right word, but definitely more adult orientated. We need to see the pain they feel when Voldemort starts striking out again...

[eternalcircle]

Definitely yes. Humor is great at times but i wouldn't mind if some is sacrificed in exchange for a solid, dark story. I'd like to see more depressing moments, like the dying of some good characters (eg. Sirius, Dumbledore, any of the Weasleys, HErmione's parents).

[Chocolate Frogs]

Yes, I would like to see the series becaome darker, and less childish. Anything but the 'kiddy' feel of PS would be better. The books have already started to do this as Harry gets older. Deaths will certainly help to make the plot darker, even though they're depressing and unhappy.

[Yurika Star]

Well, it has progressively got darker. And i enjoy it. And i want it to get a bit darker but that may sacrifice some of tis other qaulities. I wouldn't like that to happen. So only continue to get progressively darker.

[rotsiepots]

I'm going to merge this with a thread entitled Trend of Darkness Through the Series (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4248).

:)

[aquariphonics]

Nobody agrees with me whenever I say that The Chamber of Secrets is the darkest book. It's also my favorite book, so far. It's not as in depth at 3 or 4, but it still has a great story for such few pages. When you think about it, throughout most of the book, there is the shadow of people being turned into stone, Harry hearing crazy voices, etc. That's why I think it's the darkest.

Book 3 is pretty dark, with Book 4 becoming dark towards the last 100-150 pages. Book 1 is pretty much just a setup for the entire series to sort of "land the hook", so it's really not that dark.

I'm pretty sure Order of the Phoenix will be the darkest of the first 5, and maybe the entire series.

[R3mus Lup!n]

Originally posted by Cat (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=117433#post117433))
I thought The Prisoner of Azkaban was a bit 'darker' than The Goblet of Fire. The Goblet of Fire had incredibly sinister moments but there were more humorous moments as well.


Yep.PoA was darker than GoF.Mainly i think its becoz of the dementors(man, those really creep me.)and of coz the thought that sirius black, A "so called" murderer is trying to kill harry.That is what we thought at first.GoF is also very dark,but PoA is still a Little bit darker.

PoA also wins the award for Best Twist In The Storyline.
The part in the shreiking shack reallie had me Confused.

[FredRocksMySocks]

I think that they all increase in 'darkness' as the years go on, because harry constantly becomes more away of the dangers and flaws of the wizarding world. I like the dark trend, because it makes for a more intersting read, but I do hope they don't end darkly. i'm holding out for a good ol' happy ending...though...i have my suspicions about harry kicking the can.....

[UselessCharmMaster]

Yeah, it's getting darker, because of the new war, and because Harry's growing up to understand more things. The book 7 will be certainly very dark! (*shudder*)

[Kimmetje]

I though JKR said that the series would get darker. I don't mind anyways as I like a bit of darkness in a book. Keeps me and makes me want to read more. Also now that HP has to kill LV that might also be a reason for it to get darker as HP sort of has to kill to survive giving the atmosphere yet another push and making it darker.

[asrivathsan]

I thought The Prisoner of Azkaban was a bit 'darker' than The Goblet of Fire. The Goblet of Fire had incredibly sinister moments but there were more humorous moments as well.
true and ootp was the darkest.. Anyway, she is showing harry grow older so things have got to get more serious....

[fire_angel]

When I first read PS I thought 'Oh, another children's story'. I think JK really wanted first the series to be for children, then got attached to it and the plot grew, the magical worl expanded and the characters became more complex. It's just that one thing leads to another and death is a natural part of life.

[Katarzyna]

true and ootp was the darkest....
I didn't think OotP was darker than GoF--I thought the ending of GoF was the darkest part of the series thus far (through OotP). That's probably because the darkest part of OotP had quite a bit of action--the kids were running around, trading curses with the DEs. Much of the darkness in GoF did not have distracting action--Cedric was killed in cold blood, Voldemort came back with Harry tied to a grave and unable to do anything. Also, the darkness in OotP had been building up from the beginning, while most of GoF was about a "game", the Triwizard tournament. A dangerous game, to be sure, but Harry went very quickly from hoping he'd be a champion, to seeing Cedric die next to him. So, the end of GoF felt darker to me. YMMV. :)

My prediction is that The Half-Blood Prince will be somewhat less dark for Harry, because he won't be as alone as he was in OotP, or at the end of GoF. But I think it will be darker for everyone else. And book seven, yeah, very, very dark.

[shaggydogstail]

I didn't think OotP was darker than GoF--I thought the ending of GoF was the darkest part of the series thus far (through OotP).
I agree - GoF was definitely the darkest, especially for the detailed descriptions of Harry being tortured by Voldemort. It was the only time I was actually scared while reading - I nearly dropped my book in fright a couple of times during those chapters!

What made it all the more dramatic for me was the contrast between the end of the final task of the Triwizard - I was just breathing a sigh of relief and thinking that at least something good was going to happen to Harry when he and Cedric agreed to share the Triwizard Cup. Getting lulled into a false sense of security like that before having the living daylights scared out of me made everything feel much darker.

Maybe it was because I found it a little easier to predict, but OotP didn't feel as dark to me - I just wasn't as surprised, or shocked or scared (NB Shaggy has now run out of adjectives that start with the letter S ) so it didn't seem as dark. Plus the comedy in OotP really reached fever-pitch - the Weasley's exit was one among many classic moments. :rotfl:

[sergorat]

I also think that GoF was quite dark. It began with an attack of the Death Eaters on Muggels and ended with a kiss of a Dementor.

[asrivathsan]

What made ootp dark was pbly the sirius incidence.... otherwise i agree gof was dark

[starutena]

Its a great metaphor for life as a teenager, the story getting darker as Harry gets older. Many teens feel the entire world is against them and it is continually darker. For Harry it becomes real. I can only imagine how dark its going to get with the war starting up for real now.