Most Evil Spell?

[Fawkesified]

I did search and I can't be bothered to think of anything else to say. Close/delete/whatever.
What does everyone think the worst spell in the Potterverse is? I think it is a Memory Charm. Obliviate.

[snoopy_bombay]

I did search and I can't be bothered to think of anything else to say. Close/delete/whatever.
What does everyone think the worst spell in the Potterverse is? I think it is a Memory Charm. Obliviate.
well,if you say you've searched,I won't bother.As for the spell,it would have to be 'crucio'

[xXillusion]

Yes memory charm is pretty evil.
The most evil is Crucio ( I think that's the one) when it's really painful. Harry wished to die in GoF when Voldemort did it to him.
Avada Kedavra - well you don't feel a thing, you just die, so it's not as evil, in my opinion.

[Fawkesified]

Yes memory charm is pretty evil.
The most evil is Crucio ( I think that's the one) when it's really painful. Harry wished to die in GoF when Voldemort did it to him.
Avada Kedavra - well you don't feel a thing, you just die, so it's not as evil, in my opinion.
We don't know if Avada Kedavra hurts....

[xXillusion]

well by how Harry described that spider died, you wouldn't have time to feel any pain

[skittles2]

uhh, i think the tickling charm is evillllllll! :evil:

[xXillusion]

hehe :)

[Fawkesified]

uhh, i think the tickling charm is evillllllll! :evil:
:lol:

[TaraBrady]

The memory charm can have good, even kind, applications. Many people have speculated that Neville's memory problems are the result of a memory charm placed on him as a baby, possibly because he was present while his parents were being tortured.

[xXillusion]

Neville was hit with a memory charm too? I missed that. Where does it say so?

[TaraBrady]

It doesn't say it, I said some people have speculated that he may have been, and I think it's a pretty good guess.

[Fawkesified]

Neville was hit with a memory charm too? I missed that. Where does it say so?
He wasn't. It's an elaborate theory to explain his forgetfulness. I believe he was just born that way. Some people are.

[TaraBrady]

I really don't think it's all that elaborate, but that's not the point; he may have been, and if he was, that's a good use of a memory spell.

[Fawkesified]

I really don't think it's all that elaborate, but that's not the point; he may have been, and if he was, that's a good use of a memory spell.
I wouldn't say it was a good use. Condemning him to a life of forgetfulness and ridicule?

[Evita82]

I think Imperius is pretty evil. Its like brainwashed. Id rather be dead then not to have my own will.

[Fawkesified]

I think Imperius is pretty evil. Its like brainwashed. Id rather be dead then not to have my own will.
Yes, that's why I hate Memory Charms - they're like an irreversable version of that - people are so mouldable when they have had their memory modified.

[xXillusion]

hm... I have a pretty bad memory too, but I don't think I was hit with a memory charm :huh:

[TaraBrady]

I wouldn't say it was a good use. Condemning him to a life of forgetfulness and ridicule?
It's better than the massive trauma he'd have sustained from the memory of his parents screaming in agony and slowly loosing their minds. Harry only went through a few minutes of that when his parents were killed, and that's quite bad enough. Besides, it's classified as a charm, not a curse or a hex. It can have bad uses, true, very bad uses, but I don't think it's evil in and of itself.

I'd go with crucio for the worst spell.

[Fawkesified]

hm... I have a pretty bad memory too, but I don't think I was hit with a memory charm :huh:
Exactly.

It's better than the massive trauma he'd have sustained from the memory of his parents screaming in agony and slowly loosing their minds. Harry only went through a few minutes of that when his parents were killed, and that's quite bad enough. Besides, it's classified as a charm, not a curse or a hex. It can have bad uses, true, very bad uses, but I don't think it's evil in and of itself.

I'd go with crucio for the worst spell.
I wouldn't think so. I would like to be able to decide for myself - it would be nobodies decision but mine. After being hit with a Memory Charm, you are no longer really the same person.

[TaraBrady]

That's not a decision you can make as a one year old. But, again, that's not the point: the point is, the memory charm itself is not evil, but the way it is used can be.

[Evita82]

True, a memory charm would not truely be affective until after the 3rd birthday. Its a proven fact somewhere that even if you think you have a memeory before the age of 3 its probably something your brain just made up because of stories your heard.

[xXillusion]

I really don't see how a memory charm is not evil...

[Fawkesified]

That's not a decision you can make as a one year old. But, again, that's not the point: the point is, the memory charm itself is not evil, but the way it is used can be.
Do you really think a one year old would remember every detail? Harry actually enjoys hearing his parents (in a very twisted way - it is all that he can remember of them), and I believe Neville would be the same.

I really don't see how a memory charm is not evil...
I agree.

[snoopy_bombay]

Those our some really good points.It would ruin your life to have a memory charm put on you.I mean look at those people who tackled all sorts of monsters and magical beings.Lockhart put them under memory charms.And look what it cost them.Millions of fans,money,publicity,etc.

[xXillusion]

well Lockhart was an ... er.. you know.. so it's good that he was "modifyed".. I guess that is one positive thing about memory charm after all :)

[TaraBrady]

You don't have solid, cohesive memories before about age three, but you can have little flashes, and many people do. (I can remember bits of my first birthday party and of relatives that died before I turned two.)

But anyway, you're right, doing a memory charm on an infant is not the same as doing one one someone who's old enough to understand such things. The charms Lockheart performed on the people whose stories he stole were immoral in a way that a charm to protect an infant from a memory that could essentially destroy his life would not be.

[xXillusion]

well if you did it on an infant, he/she would go crazy like Neville's parents. They didn't just forget everything and started living a new life. No, they went crazy. The same with a baby

[Evita82]

True true, we dont actually forget anything we ever learn or see. It just gets lost in our brain because we didnt store it well enough. Do you think the memory charm is like a lock to those memories or wipes them clean?

[Fawkesified]

You don't have solid, cohesive memories before about age three, but you can have little flashes, and many people do. (I can remember bits of my first birthday party and of relatives that died before I turned two.)
I'd like to point you to this quote -True, a memory charm would not truely be affective until after the 3rd birthday. Its a proven fact somewhere that even if you think you have a memeory before the age of 3 its probably something your brain just made up because of stories your heard.

Harry seems to be a special case because of the scar.

True true, we dont actually forget anything we ever learn or see. It just gets lost in our brain because we didnt store it well enough. Do you think the memory charm is like a lock to those memories or wipes them clean?
I think it's a lock - Memory Charms can be reversed.

[TaraBrady]

The people Lockheart did his charms on didn't go crazy, or forget their entire lives; they forgot the very specific portions of their lives that Lockheart wanted to take from them. Lockheart went mad because the charm was done with a malfunctioning wand.

Edit:
I'd like to point you to this quote - Yes, thank you, that's the quote I was responding to. And, as I said, we don't have cohesive memories as young babies, but we do remember. Children who aren't held enough in the first few months of life frequently never learn to appreciate touch. The memories aren't as clear or easy to access as later ones, but they're still there.

[Fawkesified]

The people Lockheart did his charms on didn't go crazy, or forget their entire lives; they forgot the very specific portions of their lives that Lockheart wanted to take from them. Lockheart went mad because the charm was done with a malfunctioning wand.
I don't think Lockhart went mad, he lost all his memories. I also don't think that Lockhart had enough magical skill to wipe specific things from memories.

[xXillusion]

er..who said
"People're gonna think that you tragically lost your minds at the sight of her strangled body"?
lost your minds=crazy.
I don't think Neville's parents were modifyed with a broken wand

[TaraBrady]

I don't think Lockhart went made, he lost all his memories. I also don't think that Lockhart had enough magical skill to wipe specific things from memories.
We know for a fact that he did; he was a specialist in memory charms. If he'd been going around performing charms that completely obliviated all memory, he'd have been caught.

Edit: remember, these charms are routinely used on muggles who are exposed to magic.

er..who said
"People're gonna think that you tragically lost your minds at the sight of her strangled body"?
lost your minds=crazy.
I don't think Neville's parents were modifyed with a broken wand
He was planning on erasing the portions of their memories relating to the events in the chamber; that was how he would explain that they couldn't remember what had happened.

Neville's parents weren't modified at all; they were tortured until they went mad. No memory charms involved.

[Fawkesified]

er..who said
"People're gonna think that you tragically lost your minds at the sight of her strangled body"?
lost your minds=crazy.
Losing your mind doesn't mean that you are crazy, it means that you lose all sense of yourself. A bit like a Dementor in a strange way.

[xXillusion]

Neville's parents weren't modified at all; they were tortured until they went mad. No memory charms involved.

Really? Ok lol. Maybe I was modyfied with a memory charm after all :eyebrows:.


yeah crazy, forget who you are, the same thing to me :) You're just a useless person after that.

[Fawkesified]

Really? Ok lol. Maybe I was modyfied with a memory charm after all :eyebrows:.
You thought that Frank and Alice had Memory Charms used on them? OK I'm confused. They got tortured with the Cruciatus Curse untill they lost their minds, but I remember no Memory Charm.

[xXillusion]

I got it I got it:) I told you I forgot :)

[TaraBrady]

Really? Ok lol. Maybe I was modyfied with a memory charm after all :eyebrows:.:rotfl:yeah crazy, forget who you are, the same thing to me :) You're just a useless person after that.
"Losing one's mind" can be a euphemism from going crazy, but in the Potterverse, where we have such things as memory charms, it can also be used quite literally. So, Lockheart has lost his mind literally, and the Longbottoms have lost their minds figuratively.

[Fawkesified]

"Losing one's mind" can be a euphemism from going crazy, but in the Potterverse, where we have such things as memory charms, it can also be used quite literally. So, Lockheart has lost his mind literally, and the Longbottoms have lost their minds figuratively.
Lost but not irretrievable :D.
Back on topic....

[Dark_Heir]

The Avada Kedavra is said to be painless but when LV described it to his Death Eaters he said it was pain beyond pain that he felt when he was ripped from his body. But I have to admit that the one that I think is the strongest is the Crucio because Torture is the worst way to die. Death in some cultures is the easy way out if you want someone to suffer then you have to use torture!

[Tiphany]

The Avada Kedavra is said to be painless but when LV described it to his Death Eaters he said it was pain beyond pain that he felt when he was ripped from his body. But I have to admit that the one that I think is the strongest is the Crucio because Torture is the worst way to die. Death in some cultures is the easy way out if you want someone to suffer then you have to use torture!

Ah, but Avada Kedavra didn't kill LV; he was still sort-of alive, which is why he felt the pain. Remember he says to Harry in GoF "It will be quick, it might even be painless. I would not know, I have never died."?

I think Imperius is probably the worst: total control over someone is really really scary. Crucio will only hurt the person concerned, and maybe traumatize anyone who's watching, but Imperius can lead to terrible terrible things. Imagine when the curse was lifted and you found you'd killed your family...

Imperius also leads to lots of administrative hassle: llok at the hassle for everyone trying to work out who was a real Death Eater, and who was being controlled by one against their will... you'd never know who was who, because you could Imperio the victim into saying they were doing it of their own free will, couldn't you? *shudders*

Does Veritaserum override Imperius? I wonder...

[TaraBrady]

If someone who was under Imperio was given Veritaserum, I don't think it would block the effect of the curse. The person who was given the potion would not be able to lie, but they're not in control of their body. The instructions going to their mouth are originating from someone else, who hasn't been given Veritaserum, and so can say whatever they chose. Although, if those doing the interrogating were able to catch the person under the curse in a lie somehow, they might be able to figure out that the person was under the Imperius curse.

[Kimmetje]

I think Crucio as you don't need anything else than a wand to hurt someone so much, it can kill and is very illegal. The memory charm seems bad, but I still think the Crucio spell is the worst. :)

[Spirit]

I think that the Cruciatus Curse is the worst. Memory Charms are bad too, but Cruciatus Curses seem more awful to me.

[Arberforth20]

Crucio the pain from it would be unbearable

[crystal_joy]

The obliviate curse takes away your entire life, your left with no memories... alone, sacared, in an unknown place. Crucio causes unbearable pain, you don't know how long you'll be tortured, when it will stop... you're completely defenseless. With imperio you're actions are completely controlled by another. They all sound so terrible, I'm not sure which could be considered worse.

[strange magic]

Imperio It can force you to do things you'd rather die than do!

[MoonShine 62442]

I think the Cruciatus Curse is the worst. It's been described as unbearable. Its effects are really scary to me.

[Dark_Heir]

Yeah but we still don't know if its painless or not now do we? I'm answering Tiphany's last.

[Fawkesified]

The obliviate curse takes away your entire life, your left with no memories... alone, sacared, in an unknown place.
Exactly, after being hit with a Memory Charm, you are no longer yourself. You're an empty shell - like a child with a large vocabulary. You're left confused and if you are left alone, you are helpless.

Crucio causes unbearable pain, you don't know how long you'll be tortured, when it will stop... you're completely defenseless.
I think the worst thing about that Cruciatus Curse is that it can go on untill the caster decides to lift it.

I think the Imperius Curse isn't as nasty as the Memory Charm, because once hit with the Memory Charm you can be moulded into doing things that you wouldn't do, and the effects are more permanent. The Imperius Curse is worse, however, as it could be used as a kind of truth-telling spell.

[Tiphany]

Yeah but we still don't know if its painless or not now do we? I'm answering Tiphany's last.

True: and we can't find out unless we can find a ghost who was killed by it and remembers what it felt like.

[McKinnon02]

Hmm. This is tough, because there are several charms/spells which can have extremely nasty consequences.

But I think Imperius is the worst. Having all sense of self and will removed and just being someone else's puppet is a fate worse than death to me, and worse than feeling like you're being stabbed with a thousand knives. At least you are still you.

[TaraBrady]

The obliviate curse takes away your entire life, your left with no memories... alone, sacared, in an unknown place.Exactly, after being hit with a Memory Charm, you are no longer yourself. You're an empty shell - like a child with a large vocabulary. You're left confused and if you are left alone, you are helpless.The only person who we've seen end up like that after having a memory charm placed on them is Lockheart, and that was because the charm, which he aimed at Harry and Ron, backfired and hit him instead. It erased his entire memory because it wasn't meant for him and misfired. Lockheart was going to erase their memories of what happened in the chamber, and claim that they blacked out from the trauma of seeing Ginny's body. Also, Bertha Jorkins 'lost her mind' when Voldemort forcibly broke through a memory charm that had been placed on her, but that's because of the way he did it; like forcing a lock instead of picking it.

The Lexicon says that the Memory Charm "Modifies or erases portions of a person's memory." It also says that the Ministry routinely uses memory charms on muggles who see magic, or come across an enchanted item, to maintain the statute of secrecy. The campground manager at the Quiditch World Cup has several placed on him every day, to stop him from picking up on what's going on there. Wizards may be a bit condescending towards muggles, but they're not actively cruel, and wouldn't use these charms so freely if they did any sort of damage to the recipient.

Obliviate, like many spells, can be used to do great wrong, but it's not bad; if it were, it would, I think, be called a curse rather than a charm. So, intentionally doing to someone what was done to Lockheart accidentally would be an immensely cruel and evil thing to do, but that's an evil thing you can do with a spell, not an evil spell.

[michelle3654]

Probably Crucio.

[crystal_joy]

Lockheart was going to erase their memories of what happened in the chamber, and claim that they blacked out from the trauma of seeing Ginny's body.

From the wording J.K.R. used I get the impression Lockhart was performing more than a mere black-out:

"I shall take a bit of this skin back up to the school, tell them I was too late to save the girl, and that you two tragically lost your minds at the sight of her mangled body - say good-bye to your memories!"

To me, it seems like a full scale Obliviate spell. I may be wrong though.

It erased his entire memory because it wasn't meant for him and misfired.

Where in the books does it say that the reason Lockhart's entire memory was erased was because the spell backfired? I see no reason why a faulty memory spell would be more powerfull than what was intended.

Also, Bertha Jorkins 'lost her mind' when Voldemort forcibly broke through a memory charm that had been placed on her, but that's because of the way he did it; like forcing a lock instead of picking it.

You're right, but I never said Bertha Jorkins condition was a result of the Oblivate spell.

The Lexicon says that the Memory Charm "Modifies or erases portions of a person's memory." It also says that the Ministry routinely uses memory charms on muggles who see magic, or come across an enchanted item, to maintain the statute of secrecy. The campground manager at the Quiditch World Cup has several placed on him every day, to stop him from picking up on what's going on there. Wizards may be a bit condescending towards muggles, but they're not actively cruel, and wouldn't use these charms so freely if they did any sort of damage to the recipient.

I imagine it would depend on the force of the spell, how much power was put into it.

[Prettee]

The Unforgivables.
The Tickling Thingie.
Anything that has anything to do with spiders.

[starrysmile]

I don't know. I'm leaning towards Crucio because the person performing the spell has to mean it-want to cause someone this horrific pain and suffering. Of course, you could take that further and have AK be the worse because someone is actually ceasing the existance of another human being.
So, the question is, from what approach is a spell seen as the most evil? By the person performing it or by the unfortunate one on the recieving end?

[TaraBrady]

From the wording J.K.R. used I get the impression Lockhart was performing more than a mere black-out:

"I shall take a bit of this skin back up to the school, tell them I was too late to save the girl, and that you two tragically lost your minds at the sight of her mangled body - say good-bye to your memories!"

To me, it seems like a full scale Obliviate spell. I may be wrong though. My point it that the spell is not intended to erase one's entire memory, it's intended to erase a specific portion of one's memory. It's not a matter of how much power you use, it's what part of the memory you want to erase. They are consistently used by the ministry and others for good-to-acceptable purposes, and Lockheart grossly misuses them to steal other people's experiences.

The trio use the polyjuice potion to gather information they need; Crouch Jr. uses it to impersonate Moody and infiltrate Hogwarts. That doesn't make the potion bad, it makes Crouch Jr. bad.

[Fawkesified]

My point it that the spell is not intended to erase one's entire memory, it's intended to erase a specific portion of one's memory. It's not a matter of how much power you use, it's what part of the memory you want to erase. They are consistently used by the ministry and others for good-to-acceptable purposes, and Lockheart grossly misuses them to steal other people's experiences.
I'm afraid I agree with crystal_joy. The spell in this case was intended to erase the whole of the target's memory. I will use Ron's Furnunculus Curse as an example. He suffered the same effects that he was trying to make Malfoy experience.

[TaraBrady]

As I said, my point is that the spell (The Obliviate Charm itself) is not intended to erase a subjects entire memory. That's not what it normally does.

[snoopy_bombay]

I'm afraid I agree with crystal_joy. The spell in this case was intended to erase the whole of the target's memory. I will use Ron's Furnunculus Curse as an example. He suffered the same effects that he was trying to make Malfoy experience.
I don't think ron has ever used the furnunculus curse.Can you tell me where has he used it?:)

[Fawkesified]

As I said, my point is that the spell (The Obliviate Charm itself) is not intended to erase a subjects entire memory. That's not what it normally does.
I don't think that we can say what it's original intention was. The point is that it is used to wipe entire memories, no matter what the intention was.

I don't think ron has ever used the furnunculus curse.Can you tell me where has he used it?:)
Sorry I was confused. Harry used it didn't he? I had a hard day at school... :scared:. I'm talking about the slug spell - I forget what it's called.

[TaraBrady]

It's been used to wipe an entire memory once in the entire series that we know of. We have canon that states that it is normally used in the way I've stated. I'm going to quote a bit of an earlier post that seems to have gotten lost in the new page:
The trio use the polyjuice potion to gather information they need; Crouch Jr. uses it to impersonate Moody and infiltrate Hogwarts. That doesn't make the potion bad, it makes Crouch Jr. bad.Obliviate can, as I've said, be terribly misused. So can the polyjuice potion, and undoubtedly many other spells.

[Fawkesified]

It's been used to wipe an entire memory once in the entire series that we know of. We have canon that states that it is normally used in the way I've stated.
We do not have canon that it is normally used in the way you have stated. Saying that because in most cases (what around 3?) it has been used like that is comparible to saying that we have canon that Slytherins are normally evil because most of the 10 current students are less than pleasant. Just because it is used more often to wipe only specific parts of a memory, doesn't mean it isn't used often to wipe the complete memory.

[TaraBrady]

I see absolutely no reason to believe that it's usually used to wipe a person's memory clean. We have several (yes, more than three,) cases where it's used to erase specific portions of a person's memory, and a definition that states that it's intended to erase a specific portion of a person's memory. On the other hand, we have one case where it has erased an entire memory (when cast by someone who already has a track record of misusing this particular charm.)

If it was intended to wipe a memory clean, It think it would a) be referred to as a curse, not a charm, and b) its use would be restricted. But we've gone on about this for two pages now without making any progress, so we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[Fawkesified]

I see absolutely no reason to believe that it's usually used to wipe a person's memory clean. We have several (yes, more than three,) cases where it's used to erase specific portions of a person's memory, and a definition that states that it's intended to erase a specific portion of a person's memory. On the other hand, we have one case where it has erased an entire memory (when cast by someone who already has a track record of misusing this particular charm.)

If it was intended to wipe a memory clean, It think it would a) be referred to as a curse, not a charm, and b) its use would be restricted. But we've gone on about this for two pages now without making any progress, so we're going to have to agree to disagree.
I have already said it is irrelevant whether the spell was intended to wipe entire memories - the fact is it does. I can only remember Bertha Jorkins and the muggles at the campsite having their memories modified in that way. Yes, others have had memories modified, but we have no way of telling how much of their memory was wiped.

[Tane]

The most evil spell for me is the Cruciatus Curse due to the fact that this spell can be used over and over again resulting in mental illness. Frank and Lily in a way are in a place worse than death, they can not relate to anyone or anything properly in this world and the spell has damage not only the parents but Neville too because he is reminded of there suffering every time he goes to visit his parents.

[Fawkesified]

The most evil spell for me is the Cruciatus Curse due to the fact that this spell can be used over and over again resulting in mental illness. Frank and Lily in a way are in a place worse than death, they can not relate to anyone or anything properly in this world and the spell has damage not only the parents but Neville too because he is reminded of there suffering every time he goes to visit his parents.
It doesn't even have to be implemented more than once, the caster can just leave it on untill he/she wants to lift it.

[crystal_joy]

My point it that the spell is not intended to erase one's entire memory, it's intended to erase a specific portion of one's memory. It's not a matter of how much power you use, it's what part of the memory you want to erase. They are consistently used by the ministry and others for good-to-acceptable purposes, and Lockheart grossly misuses them to steal other people's experiences.

I agree completely... the Obliviate charm is not necessarily intended to harm people like in the case of Lockhart, but Lockhart was not the only wizard that misused it. And as I said in my first post, the full scale obliviate is a horrible thing.

[Fawkesified]

I agree completely... the Obliviate charm is not necessarily intended to harm people like in the case of Lockhart, but Lockhart was not the only wizard that misused it. And as I said in my first post, the full scale obliviate is a horrible thing.
:agree: The intention of the creator of the spell is irrelevant though - it is used to wipe entire memories and so I think it is the worst.

[crystal_joy]

:agree: The intention of the creator of the spell is irrelevant though - it is used to wipe entire memories and so I think it is the worst.

Sometimes, with some people... I think they would be better off by getting rid of a memories rather than dwelling on the things life throws at us... but that is another story, another thread, another time.

[Fawkesified]

Sometimes, with some people... I think they would be better off by getting rid of a memories rather than dwelling on the things life throws at us... but that is another story, another thread, another time.
Yes - but Obliviate is used against the target's will - there is a huge difference.

[crystal_joy]

Yes - but Obliviate is used against the target's will - there is a huge difference.

It's bad but I'm still not sure if it's necessarily wrong.

[mattbufford]

It's bad but I'm still not sure if it's necessarily wrong.
I really don't think it's wrong either. Granted, I wouldn't want the spell used against me, but it does serve its purpose. The spell is often times integral to the safety of the Wizarding community. I think, if the question is which spell is the most EVIL, that it would be the Cruciatus Curse. It's purely sadistic, and reaches a deeper level of inhumanity than even the killing curse does.

[crystal_joy]

I think, if the question is which spell is the most EVIL, that it would be the Cruciatus Curse. It's purely sadistic, and reaches a deeper level of inhumanity than even the killing curse does.

To torture someone is horrible, there must be alot of hatred and anger for a person to do that. If I had to choose a way to die, I'd pick the Avada Kedavra... even if it is painful, it's over in seconds.

[ImmortalBaron]

Most evil spell?

The Cheering Charm....?

[amirab]

I think that the evilest spell is Obliviate or Avada Kedavra.

[DarkSphynx]

The most evil spell is probably Crucio... Or Rictusempra.
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