U - Vegetarianism/Veganism

[Chrysalis]

Mum tries to make me drink soy milk, but it's gross.

She thinks I have lactose intolerance even though I had no problems in my digestive system until a year ago I was diagnosed with a possibly chronic condition.

I hardly even drink milk. But I can't stay away from the cheese.

[marauderlupin]

Mum tries to make me drink soy milk, but it's gross.



I'm a vegeterian who occasionally drinks milk, but I tried to switch to soy milk and it is so gross. I even tried the chocolate flavoured kind, but it didn't work. Thank God I'm not lactose intolerant.

[busy91]

Oh I love Soy milk, and so do my kids, the plain kind and the Chocholate kind. I can't keep that stuff in my fridge. That is all they drink!! I guess they have grown up with it, so that is all they know.

[Romy]

Does anyone know how exactly soy milk is produced? I mean it´s not an animal product such as cow milk or goat milk.

[ravenfeather]

busy91, my kids love soy milk, too. i think it's vile, although i use it for cooking, etc.

Romy, i'm not sure how exactly soy milk is produced, but i know that it is processed from soy beans. here's the difficulty, because soy, like other huge crops (cotton), is heavily treated with pesticides and there are numerous GMO soy varieties. soy isn't grown as a 'food' crop in most areas, although it does make its way to the food industry. my advice on soy is: buy organic and GMO free. if you're eating a veg diet for health reasons, it makes no sense to risk your health to chemicals.

Kimmetje, that is certainly one viewpoint regarding milk. however, a bulk of independent studies have proved that milk is not as healthy as the USDA would have you believe. i don't want to get into an argument over this, because you're perfectly entitled to your opinion. my personal opinion is that more western people would be healthier without so much milk in their diet. that opinion is based on good scientific research.

[busy91]

Soymilk is made by soaking the beans, then grinding them, then straining them through a filtering cloth and then cooked...I think or some type of similar procedure.

[ravenfeather]

yeah, yeah, it is because i have a recipe somewhere. good call, busy91!
:D

[~Tonks~]

:scared:

Um... I drink milk because I like it...

*ducks*

I used to drink a lot more when I was a kid, but now I usually only have it on cereal or if I'm eating cake or cookies or brownies or some other spongey absorbant dessert. Sometimes I'll get a craving for it so I'll drink an ice cold glass, but I don't consume it nearly as much as when I was a kid.

I respect vegetarianism and veganism, and I know all the reasons and I've had all the cases presented to me (and seen all the pictures and heard all the stories) but I just don't want to do it. I've been harassed by a couple people when I admit that fact. Not all vegetarians are that way of course, one of my best friends is a vegetarian and she is totally respectful of my choice to eat meat. I just hate it when I get the, "WHAT?! You don't WANT to be a vegetarian?! How could you WANT to eat meat?!" and then proceed to tell me all about KFC even though I rarely ever eat there, or veal farms even though I never eat veal, and cruelty to animals, even though the people who harass me are usually standing there in leather crosstrainers :rolleyes:

I also tried being a vegetarian once, but I realized I wanted to eat meat, and that I liked it. My diet doesn't involve a lot of meat anyway, but when I want it, I like to have it.

[ravenfeather]

when eating for optimal health, i think moderation in everything is the key.
i find it unfortunate that so many people are turned off by rabid vegetarian missionaries. they only people i give a hard time to are the people i love, because i care about their health. but that's a family thing. if people want information, vegetarians should be able to give it and with good intentions, but unsolicited 'advice' (i.e. bullying).... well, i don't like pushy missionaries of any stamp.

[Dedalus Diggle]

:scared:

Um... I drink milk because I like it...

*ducks*

I used to drink a lot more when I was a kid, but now I usually only have it on cereal or if I'm eating cake or cookies or brownies or some other spongey absorbant dessert. Sometimes I'll get a craving for it so I'll drink an ice cold glass, but I don't consume it nearly as much as when I was a kid.

Good for you. Just because a lot of other people in the world are lactose intolerant, doesn't mean those who can handle it should have to feel bad about it. This is probably a somewhat recent adaptation for people whose ancestors lived in far north regions where long winters made hunting for high-quality protein difficult for long stretches. I suspect there was a related adaptation allowing the consumption of fermented foods (i.e. alcohol) without getting quickly sick - unfortunately, that also allows consumption of alcohol in sufficient quantitites to be an alcoholic. But milk doesn't cause that kind of problem. Anyway, humans do a lot of other things that other creatures don't - some good, some bad. Excess of most things becomes a problem.

I respect vegetarianism and veganism, and I know all the reasons and I've had all the cases presented to me (and seen all the pictures and heard all the stories) but I just don't want to do it. I've been harassed by a couple people when I admit that fact. Not all vegetarians are that way of course, one of my best friends is a vegetarian and she is totally respectful of my choice to eat meat. I just hate it when I get the, "WHAT?! You don't WANT to be a vegetarian?! How could you WANT to eat meat?!" and then proceed to tell me all about KFC even though I rarely ever eat there, or veal farms even though I never eat veal, and cruelty to animals, even though the people who harass me are usually standing there in leather crosstrainers :rolleyes:
Maybe they make sure the animals weren't killed when the leather was taken. :scared: (Have you ever seen the cartoon with the couple walking into a restaurant with a sign that says 'Frog Legs Tonight' and they look down and see a little legless bullfrog on a personal cart - old time version of a wheelchair - looking sadly up at them?)


I also tried being a vegetarian once, but I realized I wanted to eat meat, and that I liked it. My diet doesn't involve a lot of meat anyway, but when I want it, I like to have it.
Our bodies evolved to have meat in the diet regularly. Our closest kin (chimps and bonobos) regularly have meat. There are a number of things in meat you have a lot of trouble getting in plant or fungus foods, and some that cannot be gotten at all. Excess is dangerous, and I'm glad the No-Carb fad is dying down now, but I refause to accept the exhortations of the anti-meat zealots.

[Spew Member]

It doesn't bother me that people aren't vegetarian or vegan, (including my boyfriend who lives in the meat section at the grocery store.) The only person I really try to convert is my Dad, because he is very overweight and unhealthy (the only non-vegan in the family) and he recently found out he has type II diabetes and it drives me crazy that he doesn't take good care of himself. Even with him though, I never bothered him about his eating habits until it became a very big problem. Instead I try to lead by example. A lot of people ask my Mom and step-dad what they do to look so young and stay so thin and healthy. That's when they will tell them about the vegan diet.

What I do have trouble with is the misconceptions about milk and meat. It's one thing to eat a candybar, because you know it's bad for you and you just want one anyway. (Snickers doesn't advertise to children saying it will be good for their health.) It's another thing to drink milk because in school you were taught that it is good and healthy for you when it's really not, and in reality there is no scientific evidence that says that it is. Some people love milk, and I know it's hard to give up, and with all of the information I had about how bad it was I still didn't give it up myself until I was really sick and wanted my health back. It's not that people drink milk that is a problem, it's the lack of truth that the Dairy industry gives them that frustrates me.

As far as the soy milk goes, I don't really like it either. I drink rice milk with my cereal instead, it's a lot sweeter. :tu:


There are a number of things in meat you have a lot of trouble getting in plant or fungus foods, and some that cannot be gotten at all.

Like what? Examples?

[busy91]

^^ Hormones LOL!

I don't know Dedalus, there is stuff added to vegetarian foods and supplements divised to aid in duplicating what meat has to offer. I was very concerned about my B12 intake especially, and found that Brewers Yeast and Enriched products such as soy milk would give me that particular vitamin. It takes some research.

[ravenfeather]

i think there's a huge difference between something as bizarre as the atkins diet and something which is proven healthy, like vegetarianism. i have to say, i feel a bit weird being called an 'anti-meat zealot'!

i agree with you, Spew Member. it's the propaganda which gets me down, too. people throw a fit when the 'anti-meat zealots' are allowed into the school, but what about the USDA? the beef lobby? the milk lobby? the whatever lobby? as a parent of vegetarian children, i worry about the barrage of messages which go against what we believe.

i am not a nutritionist. i am not a physician. however, because of some difficulties made by my ex- over the diet my children were following, i spent 2 years in court defending the vegetarian lifestyle and locating experts who were qualified enough to bolster the case. after those two years, i can pretty confidently say that i've read almost everything out there having to do with vegetarianism and veganism. and the fact is repeated over and over that these diets are healthful and nutritious. as busy91 stated, vitamin B-12 is the only vitamin not readily available in vegetable foods. that's because B-12 is the result of synthesis in the gut of an animal. however, there are perfectly acceptable and efficacious sources of B-12 for the modern person, as busy91 also said. fortunately, we need very very little B-12 to remain healthy and the human body is a marvelous storing device for this vitamin as well. that's not to make light of pernicious anemia (B-12 deficiency). it's a terrible thing. that's why it is so important to become knowledgable before 'converting' to vegetarianism.
here's a great website that i haven't seen linked in this thread before.Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine (http://www.pcrm.org)

[Dedalus Diggle]

In addition to several of the B-vitamins (as I recall, a number of this large group are rare or absent from non-animal sources) there are a number of lipids and amino acids only found in animals. For instance, cold-water fish have Omega-3 fatty acids which are very healthy to have in small quantities and which to the best of my knowledge are not available in plants. Every few years, it seems, others are discovered as well. Remember the story behind the movie Lorenzo's Oil.

As for amino acids, I understand that you can pair up certain plants - beans and rice, for instance - to get 'complete' proteins. I am concerned, however, about the whole notion of 'complete proteins' because the idea is that there are a number of other amino acids that the body needs but which it can make from the 'essential' amino acids. However that assumes that everybody's system is equally capable of the biochemical processes needed to do this, and yet we know of thousands of genetic variations affecting people's ability to synthesize different things. It is very possible (No, I don't know of research on this) that such genetic variations have arisen and been passed on because they do not affect people's health so long as they are getting a broader range of amino acids than just the bare 'essential' amino acids. We keep discovering new genetic variations (which may or may not be weaknesses for various living conditions - consider how sickle cell trait can be both a protector and a curse) and by imposing unnatural living patterns - including lack of animal foods - we may cause one or more of these to express themselves in unfortunate ways.

Another concern is minerals, of which the ones we need are generally in much greater concentration in animal foods, and some are quite difficult to get in sufficient quanitites in plants. Mushrooms are notably good at accumulating a number of these and should be included in any vegan/vegetarian diet. As with several of the other nutrients as well, one's digestion may not be as adept at taking up various minerals as someone else's might be. Most people do not take up calcium particularly well, whether from plants or dairy or other sources, with from 50-90% typically passing through the system without being taken up by the blood. For people on the poorer uptake end of that scale, relying on plant foods is difficult indeed.

I'm fine with people trying all sorts of regimens (well, not cannibalism, but you know what I mean :lol: ), but I also want to sound a cautionary note about the potential pitfalls. The lack of plant foods in sailors' diets led to scurvy, causing the adoption of practices that led to the Brits being called 'limeys' and the Germans 'krauts' There could well be similar hidden dangers which emerge from long-term vegan/vegetarian diets.

[ravenfeather]

Dedalus Diggle, some of your information is out of date.

-the idea of combining legumes and grains to form 'complete proteins' went out the window completely. it was based on the best available info at the time (mid 1970's) but has since been proved bogus. a good, balanced vegetarian diet has all the complete proteins you need. in addition, the protein values of most foods are so well balanced that research shows as long as you get enough calories, you're getting adequate protein (minus junk food, of course)

-omega-6 and omega-3 acids are found in flax seeds, which are highly beneficial and yummy.

-minerals are required in much smaller doses than most vitamins and most vegetarians have no mineral deficiencies

what? no cannibalism?? :wow:

[Kirsten]

Our bodies evolved to have meat in the diet regularly.
Some would say that our blunt teeth and long digestive tract means we evolved not to eat meat.

[Dedalus Diggle]

Dedalus Diggle, some of your information is out of date.

-the idea of combining legumes and grains to form 'complete proteins' went out the window completely. it was based on the best available info at the time (mid 1970's) but has since been proved bogus. a good, balanced vegetarian diet has all the complete proteins you need. in addition, the protein values of most foods are so well balanced that research shows as long as you get enough calories, you're getting adequate protein (minus junk food, of course)

-omega-6 and omega-3 acids are found in flax seeds, which are highly beneficial and yummy.

-minerals are required in much smaller doses than most vitamins and most vegetarians have no mineral deficiencies

what? no cannibalism?? :wow:
I have a distant memory of reading that flax seeds had something poisonous in them, but you eat them and you're not dead (yet - maybe we can practice cannibalism after all :wow: :td: ), so ... Well, anyway, it's not as if flax seeds are one of those commonly available items. Supplements can be used (although most are probably prepared from fish, so you have to be careful), my broader points are that we keep finding additional micronutrients that are beneficial and that everyone's digestion is quite different. People have quite different vulnerabilities to different deficiencies. The stories from India tell us that there have been quite a number of hermits who sought nirvana spending decades in the wilds consuming nothing but their own body wastes - maybe they stayed healthy, but I think I'll pass on that :rotfl: I'm also not convinced at all that vegan eating is particularly healthy or safe for everyone.

[Spew Member]

Here is a link that will tell you more than you probably ever wanted to know about vegans/vegetarians and omega 3 and omega 6 acids. As a side note, I hope that flax seeds aren't poisonous :scared: because then ravenfeather and I are in trouble! :lol:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/efa.html

I'm fine with people trying all sorts of regimens (well, not cannibalism, but you know what I mean ), but I also want to sound a cautionary note about the potential pitfalls. The lack of plant foods in sailors' diets led to scurvy, causing the adoption of practices that led to the Brits being called 'limeys' and the Germans 'krauts' There could well be similar hidden dangers which emerge from long-term vegan/vegetarian diets. There have been numerous studies done on long term vegetarians. There are plenty of countries that live on grains and rice and vegetables and fruit. The results are actually very positive. There aren't any long term studies done on the Atkins diet, but regardless of the lack of research the grocery stores are still filled with "low-carb" food. That is an example of a diet that is bad for you-although I have to admit, if someone were choosing between Atkins and Cannibalism, I would rather have them pick Atkins. :lol:

[ravenfeather]

flax seeds are poisonous!? oh cr-..... *dies*

:lol:
flax seeds are not poisonous, although you do need to be aware enough to purchase food grade flax. flaxseed oil is available in the refrigerated section of most health food stores and co-ops. do not ever, ever, ever consume LINSEED oil, which, while made from flax, is NOT edible. it is sold in art supply stores and hardware stores and should NEVER be eaten. do NOT eat this! :lol:

i dunno... i guess if i, personally, could choose who would be the main course in a cannibalistic diet, i'd endorse cannibalism over atkins. :whistle:

[busy91]

I love flax seed oil. I actually take it by the spoon as opposed to using it as a salad oil. And people eat flax seeds all the time. Never gave me a problem, never heard they were poisinous.

It does go bad quickly, and that doesn't taste to good.

[lilbittv]

I am an Omnivore, so please forgive my ignorance on the subject at hand.
I know several people who have decided to become vegetarians, all of them have gained a considerable amount of weight since then, is there a reason for this?
One of those people is actually more of Preservatarian (preservative diet) so in that case I can understand the weight gain, but the others seem to eat a healthy diet.
Do you have to ween yourself off of meat and meat products, or has their "quitting" meat cold turkey caused some sort of adverse affect?
:rotfl: Hey that was pretty funny, "...quitting meat cold turkey..."

[ravenfeather]

I know several people who have decided to become vegetarians, all of them have gained a considerable amount of weight since then, is there a reason for this?
this is probably due to the fact that these folks have upped their intake of dairy products. fat=flavor and it's difficult for most people to give that up, so they overcompensate by dumping on the cheese (or whatever). most ovo-lacto vegetarians have a higher overall cholesterol level than omnivores!!

Do you have to ween yourself off of meat and meat products, or has their "quitting" meat cold turkey caused some sort of adverse affect?

most people don't go 'cold turkey' because it's difficult to make such a drastic change. a lot of people will 'lapse' in the first year or two of vegetarianism and have a little something meaty. however, what most of us learn is, it's not as good as we remember it, so that usually tapers off. the thing about regularly eating meat is, it tastes pretty good. however, when you don't eat it for a while (usually 6 months to a year) it not only tastes pretty awful (like burned blood) it can actually make you sick (stomach cramps, diarhhea, dyspepsia, heartburn, headaches, etc.)

[lilbittv]

EWWWW! That sounds pretty horrible. Thanks for your input ravenfeather That makes alot of sense. I was also wondering if a person's metabolism affects that weight gain if the change over isn't done properly? I know that if a person suddenly cuts down on the amount of food they eat, over a period of time that the body goes into fat storing mode and that person's metabolism slows down in order to compensate for what it thinks it is being deprived of.
Do you think that a sudden "deprivation" of fat from meat could cause the body to begin to save substitute fat (non-meat) in this fat storage mode?

How much and how often does a vegetarian have to eat? As a teenager I ate alot and 5 times a day: Breakfast- 2 breakfast sandwiches (ham, egg and cheese), 6 mini doughnuts, chocolate milk or juice ; 2 hours later- 2 sandwiches or 5 pizza pockets, hostess pie and a snapple ; Lunch- a huge burrito and a drink ; After School- 6 tacobell tacos ; Dinner- a plate full of whatever my mom made. I couldn't imagine getting filled on a vegetarian diet.
BTW I am 5'3" and weigh 122lbs, and I do not have a eating disorder. I do not eat as much, but would say that I still eat alot.

[Romy]

EWWWW! That sounds pretty horrible. Thanks for your input ravenfeather That makes alot of sense. I was also wondering if a person's metabolism affects that weight gain if the change over isn't done properly? I know that if a person suddenly cuts down on the amount of food they eat, over a period of time that the body goes into fat storing mode and that person's metabolism slows down in order to compensate for what it thinks it is being deprived of.
Do you think that a sudden "deprivation" of fat from meat could cause the body to begin to save substitute fat (non-meat) in this fat storage mode? I´m not very knowledgable on the matter but I don´t think so. This "fat storage mode" only goes into effect if the body think it´s being starved. If you continue eating normal amounts your stomach will still feel full and your body can still take energy out of your food.

How much and how often does a vegetarian have to eat? As a teenager I ate alot and 5 times a day: Breakfast- 2 breakfast sandwiches (ham, egg and cheese), 6 mini doughnuts, chocolate milk or juice ; 2 hours later- 2 sandwiches or 5 pizza pockets, hostess pie and a snapple ; Lunch- a huge burrito and a drink ; After School- 6 tacobell tacos ; Dinner- a plate full of whatever my mom made. I couldn't imagine getting filled on a vegetarian diet.
BTW I am 5'3" and weigh 122lbs, and I do not have a eating disorder. I do not eat as much, but would say that I still eat alot.I dare say that a vegetarian eats just as much as someone who eats meat. They just eat different stuff. It´s not like you´re being deprived of food, you could still eat dairy products, veggies, fruit, bread, pasta, oats, etc, all the nessecities :p . Meat isn´t a major part of my daily intake of food and I can´t say I wouldn´t feel full after eating.

[Kirsten]

Teenagers are notoriously hungry and take a lot of filling up. Vegetarians don't necessarily eat less - in fact, many eat more, 'cos eating low calorie vegetables means you can eat a lot more without gaining weight!

[Dedalus Diggle]

Teenagers are notoriously hungry and take a lot of filling up. Vegetarians don't necessarily eat less - in fact, many eat more, 'cos eating low calorie vegetables means you can eat a lot more without gaining weight!
Of course, a teen can fill up on spuds, chips, nuts, squash, yams, pasta, dairy, and guacamole and have ample calories. Or drop the dairy to be vegan and it's still easy enough to get calories.

[busy91]

Actually being Vegan requires more than dropping the dairy. It takes a lot of knowledge and even more reading. I was surprised at how many 'vegetarian' things are filled with animal products. Gelatin is one thing I had to look out for. And a lot of things that are labled vegetarian (in the mainstream supermarket) contain 'chicken stock', eggs, dairy.

Basically being Vegan requires you to eat more live food than anything else. I have tried that diet (for about 3 weeks for health reasons) and I have to say, it is tough. Being vegetarian is much easier. But being an omnivore is fine with me.

[ravenfeather]

Teenagers are notoriously hungry and take a lot of filling up. Vegetarians don't necessarily eat less - in fact, many eat more, 'cos eating low calorie vegetables means you can eat a lot more without gaining weight!

that's true, but many of the tastiest things are fairly high in calories (nut butters, hummus, Dedalus Diggle's guacamole :drool: ) and provide good fuel for growing people. it's adults with low metabolism who need to make sure their caloric needs aren't being exceeded, yes, even vegetarians. :evil:

busy91, great point. someone earlier in this thread mentioned the 'morningstar farms' products, most of which contain egg (morningstar farms is one of the leading distributor of eggs in this country and own the worst sort of battery farms).

[Spew Member]

that's true, but many of the tastiest things are fairly high in calories (nut butters, hummus, Dedalus Diggle's guacamole :drool: ) and provide good fuel for growing people. it's adults with low metabolism who need to make sure their caloric needs aren't being exceeded, yes, even vegetarians. :evil:

busy91, great point. someone earlier in this thread mentioned the 'morningstar farms' products, most of which contain egg (morningstar farms is one of the leading distributor of eggs in this country and own the worst sort of battery farms).

When I first gave up cheese I tried to find a soy cheese to replace it and I was very sad when I read the ingredients and discovered whey and casein (fancy words for milk. :grumble:) I also was sad when I found out that the Gardenburgers (except the vegan version) have dairy in them. I have become a great label reader.

Ittybitty Since I switched and became a vegan, I eat more food than I've ever been able to eat before. (Like Kristin said earlier.) This could be my imagination, but I feel like my metabolism has sped up, and I no longer have problems with my weight, my allergies, my excema, my stomach aches, and my headaches and that alone makes it worth it. At first I really missed dairy, but now I never crave it. In fact if I walk by cheese at the grocery store I can smell it-and it smells terrible! I do have to be careful because I could live on Dedalus Diggles guacamole-if you have some Dedalus, pass it over! ;)

[busy91]

Spew since you are vegan I have a question.

When I did this I was always cold. Now this was in September when it is pretty warm outside, my body couldn't get warm. Why was that. I was eating enough food, so I was never hungry. Any ideas what caused this?

[ravenfeather]

busy91, here's my opinion and Spew Member should step in with her thoughts, as well.

first of all, what body type do you have? if you're tall and thin, you don't have much body fat to begin with. if you weren't eating all that much fat, then your body wasn't able to warm itself. fat is a super-efficient fuel. this is why arctic peoples eat so much fat and blubber. i've been told that visitors above the arctic circle soon learn to relish big chunks of sea mammal fat because it's the only thing that keeps them warm.
secondly, the problem with a vegan diet and the reason that many physicians don't recommend this diet for small children (*makes rude gesture at physicians*) is that it is much easier to eat until you are full and still not get enough calories. vegan food is not calorie dense so a vegan learns to eat pretty much all the time. your body needs enough calories to function, it will take energy for necessities first. warmth isn't the biggest priority for the body. it's pretty big, but not as big as, say, digestion, heart function, etc. etc.

[busy91]

busy91, here's my opinion and Spew Member should step in with her thoughts, as well.

first of all, what body type do you have? if you're tall and thin, you don't have much body fat to begin with. if you weren't eating all that much fat, then your body wasn't able to warm itself. fat is a super-efficient fuel. this is why arctic peoples eat so much fat and blubber. i've been told that visitors above the arctic circle soon learn to relish big chunks of sea mammal fat because it's the only thing that keeps them warm.
secondly, the problem with a vegan diet and the reason that many physicians don't recommend this diet for small children (*makes rude gesture at physicians*) is that it is much easier to eat until you are full and still not get enough calories. vegan food is not calorie dense so a vegan learns to eat pretty much all the time. your body needs enough calories to function, it will take energy for necessities first. warmth isn't the biggest priority for the body. it's pretty big, but not as big as, say, digestion, heart function, etc. etc.

Thanks ravenfeather.

I am tall and slender. Only gained some weight after the kids. I am 5 11.5 and weigh 165 if that gives you a visual. I have a normal percentage of body fat for my weight and height.

Ahhhh....the fat. This diet was void of all fat. It was to last 3 weeks, it was a sort of detox, so I ate ZERO fat. That is probably why I was freezing my buns off, but I would have thought the little stores of fat I did have would have burned to keep me warm, after all it was like 85 degrees outside!

[Spew Member]

Thanks ravenfeather.

I am tall and slender. Only gained some weight after the kids. I am 5 11.5 and weigh 165 if that gives you a visual. I have a normal percentage of body fat for my weight and height.

Ahhhh....the fat. This diet was void of all fat. It was to last 3 weeks, it was a sort of detox, so I ate ZERO fat. That is probably why I was freezing my buns off, but I would have thought the little stores of fat I did have would have burned to keep me warm, after all it was like 85 degrees outside!
It also could have been because you weren't getting enough iron (spinach, raisons, nuts, brocolli) because a lack of iron keeps your blood from circulating properly, which could have been why you were cold.

ravenfeather has a good point too, it also could have been that you weren't eating enough calories. I don't have any added oils in my diet, but I still eat food that is fattening, (avocados, nuts, macadanian nuts :drool:, olives, chocolate pudding made with honey instead of milk :drool: Now I am hungry!) There are plenty of vegan foods that are high in calories and fat, that's why it is important to do your research and have a good meal plan before deciding to try a strict vegan diet.

[busy91]

Thanks Spew Member.

Since it was a detox diet all that good oily fatty stuff was a no-no. :(

It was supposed to be a month long detox, but it lasted 3 weeks. My mom didn't have that problem, but my other friend who did it with me did.

[Stan_Shunpike]

Wow, this thread is quiet....

I've been reading the first few pages, and I'd just like to say that I strongly disagree with those who say 'We have canines, therefore we're not meant to be Vegetarian'. Well, I could just as easily say 'We have legs, therefore we're not meant to drive cars'. We're lucky enough to have evolved to a level where we can make the choice not to eat meat. I'm not saying eveybody should, but I am saying that EVERYONE should be able to respect those who do, and I'm glad for the most part that that's true.

[ravenfeather]

I agree, Stan. A quick look at the teeth and digestive system of people will clearly show that people were intended to be omnivorous with a greater intake of vegetable matter. However, we live in a time where we are not subject to hunting/gathering and can make whatever nutritional choices feel best to us. :)

[Firebolt2004]

I am a vegetarian. I eat dairy but I have to be careful because certain yogurts have gelatin in them. Also some non meat entrees and soups are prepared with chicken stock. I always read labels before buying pre-made food. The best way to avoid this is to prepare your own food.

One thing that always gets to me is when I tell people that I'm vegetarian, someone always has to ask, do you eat chicken? or do you eat fish?

[Towelie]

People ask me that too. As if chicken and fish are....vegetables :huh:

I've been a vegetarian (not a vegan though, I don't have enough disiplin) for 7 and a half years. Even if I were to go back to eating meat, I don't think I could go back to eating most meats. Why? Because after not eating the stuff for so long it starts to become really...disgusting. Not too long ago I was watching some ground beef my dad was cooking because he was busy, and the smell of it made me feel like vomiting. The other day I was making a sandwich for a friend and was putting some deli meat on it, which also smelt so bad it made me sick. And has anyone ever noticed how on shows like "Survivor" when they make the contestants do challenges where they have to eat gross things, the gross things are always animals? I don't think many people would gag at the idea of eating a vegetable, even if it was an exotic one :eyebrows:

[Firebolt2004]

I cannot bear the smell of meat being barbequed either. I agree about the Survivor thing. I'm sure there are berries and exotic fruits in those islands that could be eaten, but they won't affect the ratings as much as when you have contestants eating rats or other creepy things.

[Polychrome]

I agree, Stan. A quick look at the teeth and digestive system of people will clearly show that people were intended to be omnivorous with a greater intake of vegetable matter. However, we live in a time where we are not subject to hunting/gathering and can make whatever nutritional choices feel best to us. :)

Actually, humans are meant to ingest mostly seafood. (And by seafood, I mean stuff that's actually from the ocean, such as the fish used in sushi. Salt water keeps out the types of bacteria that would normally make us sick, so it has to be very fresh to be eaten raw.) The very first humans apparently lived in seaside caves before the ice age forced them to become nomadic and start going after big game.

But for some reason most people aren't raised on fish and don't like it. :P

Problem with fish is people are afraid of the smell, which is very, um, dead smelling. But the smell and taste of fish are so completely different that once you get past that barrier, you start liking it.

It should also be noted that there isn't really such thing as a "pure" carnivore. Most predators in the wild will either eat some plants to clean out their guts or eat whatever they find in the digestive system of the animals they eat, which gets them their veggies. Yummy. :p I think we've all been spoiled too long by processed food, ya know?

[ravenfeather]

There are different levels of carnivorism, though. For instance, members of the genus Felis are highly specialized to eat only other animals. The reason grasses, etc. 'clean them out' is because the feline digestive tract isn't designed to tolerate fiber. Felines have sharp, tearing teeth, even the molars, and a short digestive tract, complete with more frequent elimination habits.
Members of the genus Canis, however, are designed to be omnivorous, but with a slant toward carnivorism. This suits an opportunistic lifestyle. Canines thrive on a meat-rich diet, but can tolerate fiber better than a feline. Canines also have sharp, tearing teeth.
If you look at true herbivores, you'll find several mechanisms for fiber break-down. In ruminants, the food is chewed more than once and passed through a series of specialized 'stomachs'. In equids, maximum absorption of nutrients is accomplished by an extremely long digestive tract which is designed to be in constant motion. True herbivores have flat, shovel-like front teeth (ruminants have them only on the bottom mandible) and wide, grinding back teeth to break down fiber content. They also have long digestive tracts.
Now, to compare humans, you'll notice a similarity between the teeth of herbivores, with a specialized adaptation of tearing teeth as well. The digestive tract of humans is long, much longer than a true carnivore's, but shorter than a true herbivores. This indicates that the diet of a human should be omnivorous, but with a slant toward plant matter. Humans tolerate fiber very well, in fact, require it for good digestive health.

However, I believe my original point remains intact. Despite the omnivorous design, I can thrive on an herbivorous diet, free of unhealthy overly processed foods.

[Polychrome]

There are different levels of carnivorism, though. For instance, members of the genus Felis are highly specialized to eat only other animals. The reason grasses, etc. 'clean them out' is because the feline digestive tract isn't designed to tolerate fiber.


Niether is ours. We just force it out the south end to clean the entire system, vs just the stomach. Obviously, humans and cats evolved from different species, so they won't be completely alike. (Though, supposedly there is a human gene on the Y-Chromosome that causes hair to grow out the ears...)

As far as the rest of your post goes, stuff has to be assumed for the sake of evolution. We do have a lot of "leftover" organs that could be attributed to something that does eat more plants, but the human digestive system is slowly changing, as can be expected with any species. Usually, when somebody mentions things like wisdom teeth or an appendix, they think of stuff that is surgically removed when something goes wrong. Well, an appendix would normally hold symbiotic bacteria for digesting fiber, and wisdom teeth would be for cracking nuts. Evolution is still happening, and these organs are both being slowly phased out of the human race, not by artificial removal, but by people simply being born without them. And I get the feeling they won't be the last.

But anywho, excuse my random hijacking of this thread for random Biology fun. I will go away now. Maybe if a random wad of cash lands in my lap, I'll have sushi for lunch tomorrow.

[Chrysalis]

Since most species of fish that are eaten by humans are on the brink of extinction I would recommend passing. Or choose a lesser known type of fish.

[ravenfeather]

And to add to what Chrysalis said, most fish favored by ichthiavores is highly contaminated with environmental polution. The higher up on the food chain you eat, the more pollutants you are consuming. :)

[Chrysalis]

What I really hate is when people justify killing seals, dolphins and other carnivores of the sea because 'they eat our supplies of fish'. Dolphins, seals and whales collectively do NOT consume enough fish to reduce our supply. Humans are causing their own shortage of ichtyoids.

It makes as little sense biologically as the argument that not eating meat will increase the amount of livestock. Or that hunting is necessary to keep a population of predators at bay.

[PotionsMaster]

Usually when vegitarians start gaining weight it's because they lack the knowledge to become a vegitarian. A lot of people believe that "just not eating meat" is enough. These people will also turn to junk food more often for "lack of anything else to eat", hence the weight gain. I have argued for years with people since I have been a vegitarian for over 11 years (and even vegan for 2 of those, but for reason's mentioned, and a few more, had just just go back to being a veggie :(). I hear a lot of people who say they can't live without meat, which is usually saying I'm not stong enough to do this. It takes an amazing amount of will power. I was in my young teens when I decided, and it was not all fun and games. I had people who were wonderful along the way and others who were just awful. It gets easier as time goes by. But as far as too many animals in this world if we don't eat meat... animals are bred for meat. If people weren't eating animals we wouldn't have an over abundance of them. And the whole intelligence thing goes out the door too, cause let me tell you if people argue that if an animals is dumb, we can kill and eat it, Man, I'd be getting fat off a lot of people in this world (well, not that I'd eat them anyway, but that's besides the point)! Animals need to be respect and understood. Some of the most intelligent people to have ever lived understood this, and I think that was part of their success. They understood that the world as a whole needs to accounted for, not just the parts that most humans use for their own personal gain. It's not convienent to be a vegitarian/vegan. It's a personal choice that was made. People have an obsession with convienence, if it's not simple, quick, and easy, we don't want to do it. Society is full of short cuts, and there will always be those who choose to take the shortcuts and settle for what they get, and then there are other people who work hard and get a wonderful feeling about what they are doing. I have decided to dedicate my life to animals, which wasn't my first choice either, but after I thought it over, it was the right choice for me. I'm currently in the process of switching my college major. I was studying to be come a neurological psychiatrist, and it's not that I couldn't do it, I was very well on my way. But I have always been very interested in helping animals and I always had a soft spot in my heart for big cats, and I have decided to try to focus on saving tigers, because it is human ignorance that has led to the extinction of 3 subspecies in the past 70 years and there are 5 more that are endangered. But it's this kind of ignorance that will lead to the downfall of humanity, and just because you can eat meat, and you can kill, if doesn't mean you have to. We should help our fellow creatures, we are all linked together, even genetically (yes, all mammals have the same "subset" of genes to begin with, it's our other genes that "turn on" and "turn off" out traits). I know I sound like I'm trying to convert everyone, but I'm not. That just the way I feel about it, I've stopped trying to convince people long ago, I've lost all faith in people as a whole.