U - Vegetarianism/Veganism

[Snowangel]

I hope this topic hasn't been discussed already. I'm just wondering what people think about how we treat animals. Are there any vegetarians or vegans amongst us? Are there people who are concerned about how the meat and dairy industries work? I am not a vegetarian but I have seriously thought about it and I am still not completely convinced that the way we treat animals is morally right. What are people's thoughts on these issues?

[Chaser]

Generally I'm not too concerned about it. I eat meat everyday, drink milk everyday, and enjoy doing so. When I'm eating I simply don't think about animals being killed. I don't think about the tree that died for the table my computer moniter sits on... or for the house that I live in.

My best friend in High School was a vegetarian; me and a couple other guys slept over his house for a week to shoot a movie. Everynight we had the same thing. Vegitables. Boiled vegitables. Fried Vegitables. Vegitable pizza. Vegi burger. I joked around about it, but didn't really complain. By the end of the week I felt so hungry my mom took me to Mcdonalds. I need meat to stay happy, food wise. Kinda sad huh?

So I'm not too concerned about it. As long as they don't torture the animals, or kill too many, etc etc... then I'm fine with it.

To me nothing beats a medium - medium rare Porterhouse steak. Not even boiled cabbage and horse raddish! ;) :bite:

[Weatherby]

I've been a vegetarian since I was 11 years old.
At the time I only did it because my mom suggested it. It was another diet to her. She didn't last a week.
I never looked back. I do eat milk, cheese and eggs but not fish or poultry. There are different kinds of vegetarians out there.

I get to listen to 'meat is murder' by the smiths and not feel guilty. yeah!
I think it's cruel how they treat farm animals. They feed cows parts of each other and other terrible things. It depends on the farmer I'm sure. They aren't all like that..but.. I don't judge if other people choose to eat meat but I don't agree with killing animals for fur.

[Remus Lupin]

Well i sort of beleive int the "Circle of life" principal. I eat meat, when i die, my body helps grass grow, and in turn animals eat me. My best friend is a Vegitarian, but she's constatly under nurished and sick. Im not saying that veganism leads to illness, quite the contrary. But with mty work like and such, meat is an essential part of my diet.

[pasalita]

Oh, I can understand the sentiment that supports the idea of becoming a vegetarian politically. Truth be told, most farms don't practice the most humane procedures when it comes to raising poultry and cows.

But, it's all about how sensitive one is to this plight. For me, it's just as damaging (if not more so) to many species' of animals that our species is forever populating this earth and expanding our domain over natural habitats and niche environments. For me, it's just as damaging to drive a car when the oil, fuel, and gases emitted from the automobiles destruct the environment that keeps habitats of animals in check.

So, I try to do things, with regards to my eating habits, selectively political. I jest not. I’m not by any means a vegetarian because it is important for me to have a good source of iron, but I do eat selectively. For example, I don’t eat shrimp because the harvesting of shrimp not only hurts the bottom of our marine environment, but shrimp are staple in keeping many marine populations in balance. And, I try not to eat salmon, because they are all but extinct.

That’s just my take on it. I’m not “picky.� I’d regard myself as more environmentally aware about my food. ;D

[Snowangel]

Pasalita, that sounds very sensible to me. I see this as a really complex issue. I'm concerned about how animals are treated by farms but I'm not convinced yet that there is anything inherently wrong with eating animals. I think, however, that we could make a lot of improvements in how we farm animals and in how we treat the environment in general, of course. I'm still thinking over this issue.

[Inkwolf]

I agree with Snowangel, pretty much.

In spite of what the vegetarian-politics people say, eating meat is part of our natural diet. We have canine teeth--which are serious, huge fangs in some of our close primate relatives. Most great apes eat meat at times as well--they hunt down monkeys and such. We are omnivores. If you look at the animal kingdom, most of the SMARTEST animals are omnivores! Raccoons, apes, crows, pigs......I can't think of a single herbivore which is known for its intelligence. It's as right and natural for us to eat meat as it is for any other omnivore.

I do sympathise with the animals, though. And I hate the cruel conditions on some meat and poultry farms. (Not all farms, though. I live in a farming area, and most of the farmers i know take very good care of their animals. The problem is mostly with the big, factory farms.)

On the other hand, some people think hunting is cruel, but don't object to farming. Their argument is that the deer is free and natural, but the cow was created to be eaten. (As if that makes some kind of difference to the cow!) I think it's a shame there isn't more wild game and less meat farming. Not only would the animals lead better lives, but people would probably have more respect for their meat (and eat less of it) if they had to go out, find it, kill it, and prepare it personally.

[Lucinda]

I personally have been a vegetarian for 5 years. I am not a vegan i eat eggs and drink milk. I realized one day that meat was not for me, i do not like the idea of animals being killed just so i can eat them when i can survive just fine without it, I also disagree with the treatment of animals in the farms and what not. This is just a personal decision. One thing i do not like is the preachy vegetarian/vegans who try to make others feel guilty for eating a burger or drinking some milk. As i said it was a choice, meat is not for me personally, but if others want to eat meat, more power to ya!

[Yurika Star]

For me, I shall never become a vagetarian, I like certain meats to much, and dislike certain vegetables too much. I have eaten both for all my life, but would not like to only eat one of them, and prefer meat over vegetables.

The end of the story for me.
There is no big reason philosophical reason for me, I just like eating meat ^^;;

And i always thought, why eat plants, also living creatures, if you won't ea animals, which are living creatures.

Is inteligence level a big factor?

[Alicia_Potter]

I eat all types of food (within reason). Most people think that it is crazy that I do eat all types because I am very concious about animal torture and I am against it. The reason that I do continue to eat meat and other things is because I know that if I decided to stop eating food that has been taken from places were people were being bad, I would not be doing justice to the thousands of other things that are wrong in the world. If I decided to stop doing anything that even slightly pertained to bad stuff I might as well die. I know that in some ways it is selfish, but that is just where I stand. I cannot help being in this position, and I respect other people's opinions.

[Emma]

I haven't eaten anything that had a brain in many years.

My logic is with the plant life you can cut off a piece of it and replant it and it will grow.

With animal and things with brains...Cut off a hoof from a cow and plant it. You do not get a new cow!

With the animals... they are fed so much that we don't know. They are prosessed to such a degree that little girls(8 year olds) are starting puberty at a much earlier rate, some suggest that it is the prossess in the meats that they are eating that is what is happening to them.

[IndyPotter]

I love meat. Its my favorite type of food. Like Inkwolf said, we are given canines naturally to eat meat. I believe humans are meant to eat both because of the type of teeth we had.

Meat also gives us certain proteins and minerals that greens can't.

I know I will never become a vegetarian in my life.

[daniel4hp]

I don't have anything against eating meat--I do it all the time. I think its fine to kill animals to provide food for us; it doesn't bother me at all.

[Alex]

To put it bluntly: In order to have a satisfying meal, I have to eat something that has been killed.

Perhaps I'm just an awful person, but it doesn't bother me at all to eat meat. It's unnatural not to eat meat, it's no fun to not eat meat, and.... well, I like meat. It tastes good.

[Morgoth]

I eat meat. I love it :bite:

[Harry_Potter]

For every veggie burger my friend eats I eat 2. That way I can have one for pure pleasure, another to counter his lack of eating one, and I down another one just to put me one ahead.

[dumbleedore]

I am both for and againest vegitarians.

I am for it because it shows that they care and all that (if they don't go too far).

I am againest it when they go to big functions. We have just confirmed all the meals for the wedding on saturday when 2 people ring up and say "Oh, we don't eat meat!". Which now means we have to pay this surcharge thing for ordering it after we confirmed everything.

It's hard to explain my feelings on this properly...

[Nick]

What do I think of vegetarianism? I don't like it, I need my meat.

What do I think of vegeratians? Nothing. They're free to eat what they please. However, it is hypocritical of them to refuse meat because it used to live, whilst eating plants that .. wait for it .. used to live.

[Emma]

Originally posted by CaptainNick
What do I think of vegetarianism? I don't like it, I need my meat.

What do I think of vegeratians? Nothing. They're free to eat what they please. However, it is hypocritical of them to refuse meat because it used to live, whilst eating plants that .. wait for it .. used to live.

But if you read my post you'd understand that you may replant the part of a plant and grow a new one.

If you cut off a hoof, do you get a cow?

I have nothing against anyone who eats meat. I even cook it sometimes for others. It is, I just won't eat it.

After not eating it for so long, if you do get a taste of something that has been cooked with meat on it, say 1/2 sausage pizza, you can taste the blood from the meat. It is not a very nice taste, after not eating it.

It takes 7 years for you body to rid itself of all the meat and prossessing that is done to it. That burger you ate 2 years ago is still in your system.

[DogStar87]

I eat meat everyday or close to everyday. I don't have a problem with it nor would I stop doing it. God meant for humans to eat animals, and meat is part of a healthy, balanced diet.

My logic is with the plant life you can cut off a piece of it and replant it and it will grow.
But plants don't have the reproduction capacity that animals have. Plants can regrow, but animals can reproduce. It's all about survival of the fittest.

[Emma]

This is true DogStar87, I totally agree with you on that.

I just do want to harm animals. When I was around 13 I visited a farm near my grandmother's to buy eggs. I watched them candle the eggs and save the ones that had chicks inside.

They also had an abandoned calf, he would follow you like a puppy. His eyes were so beautiful. I could not ever think of eating something so beautiful. Or for that matter wear their skin.

I will eat dairy, nothing has been harmed in the process of laying an egg. I can get in to something else but I won't. I'll eat animal products as honey, and things like that. I do know others that won't even use honey or any products made by nature.

[Harry_Potter]

I became vegan and I did it for my cat too. I went to an online site that said you could feet cats certain soy foods. After 2 weeks my cat collapsed and I had to get it euthanized.

[nimbus2006]

Its pretty much survival of the fittest in a very complex pattern. Animals have been eating eachother and trying to stay alive since the beginning of our time. Does that mean that all lions/bears whatever should stop eating meat and convert to grass? No, its what they do to stay alive. Sure we could survive on certain plants, But meats have certain minerals that people need to survive. We could get these from vitamin supplements, but killing an animal to stay alive is no crime. Its been happening on earth for ages, by humans too. ie native americans/ any early tribes.. it was how they stayed alive.

[Nick]

Originally posted by Emma
But if you read my post you'd understand that you may replant the part of a plant and grow a new one.

If you cut off a hoof, do you get a cow?


No.

I had read your post. However, my post was not intended to be a reply to yours; rather it was a general rebuttal to the simplest argument that can be used to support vegetarianism.

[Flea Fly]

This is something that has haunted me for long time. I'd have no trouble becoming vegetarian (not vegan though, I love my milk too much). However my mum is the best cook in the world and there are some things that if she were to make (that have meat in them) and put on the table I would not be able to resist. Perhaps when I move out of home, I'll become vegetarain. Meat is not the best tasting thing in the world frankly, except for chicken, which i love but i reckon with time i could get rid of that too

cheers

[Emma]

Originally posted by CaptainNick
No.

I had read your post. However, my post was not intended to be a reply to yours; rather it was a general rebuttal to the simplest argument that can be used to support vegetarianism.

Oh! It is just my logic to not eating flesh. I'm sorry if I misunderstood. I have nothing against meat eaters. Some people just have something against People who don't.

[martinnyg]

I don't care if people eat meat or don't.
But i think we're mean to the animals, and if meat didn't taste so good, I would definitively be a vegitarian.

[Inkwolf]

Actually, I did try vegetarianism when I was in college, for about a month. It just didn't work for me. I was eating other protein sources (beans, peanut butter, cheese) but I found that I developed a really weird case of insomnia. I would lie all night, staring at the ceiling, wide awake. And I eventually developed incredible cravings for hot, juicy, spicy sausages. :D

Like I said, though, that's when I was younger, and felt somehow that hmanity was not a part of nature and should stop interfering with it. These days I feel more that humans are indeed part of nature, and it would be far better to encourage anything that gets them tending back toward natural behavior instead of the life we live now, with artificial lights setting artificial schedules in artificial shelters where we work all day in mostly unimportant jobs, and spend our spare time being entertained by remote control.....not that I plan to give up my computer and go all Amish or anything. ;)

[Nick]

Originally posted by Emma
Oh! It is just my logic to not eating flesh. I'm sorry if I misunderstood. I have nothing against meat eaters. Some people just have something against People who don't.

Don't worry about it. ;)
Fact is, your logic would present me with a problem, if I were to try and "prove" that vegetarianism is "wrong" somehow. (I'd love to see someone try and prove that!)

Some plants will regrow if you replant them, whereas putting my finger into the ground won't regrow me .. although, in a few years it might be possible to replicate me. GE and whatnot. But that's besides the point, which I lost a long time ago.

[Bertie McGonagall]

The biggest problem with the Vegan philosophy is that there isn't enough farmland on earth to support worldwide vegetarianism. Even if there were, the soil woulkd likely be burned out in 10-15 years from ovefarming. Consumption of meat is therefore, necessary.

[Snowangel]

Originally posted by Bertie McGonagall
The biggest problem with the Vegan philosophy is that there isn't enough farmland on earth to support worldwide vegetarianism. Even if there were, the soil woulkd likely be burned out in 10-15 years from ovefarming. Consumption of meat is therefore, necessary.

Although I don't know a lot about this, I do know that some people argue the exact opposite. They look at how much cows, for instance, consume and claim that, if we didn't raise cows, we would be able to feed a lot more people. Like I said, I don't know a lot about this but I have heard people arguing the other way.

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

If we stopped using meat, milk, and leather, I'm not sure how cows would survive. I guess we'd have to set aside preserves for them, like buffalo.

[Merle]

I respect vegetarians, even thought about becoming one for quite some time, but for personal reasons decided against it. To me, if you stay connected to where the food comes from, and treat the animals with respect, eating meat is OK. So many people, though, see meat as just a product. It's hard to visualise it still on the animal, and they fail to respect that it is a gift from a living creature.

One of my biggest problems with vegetarianism is the hypocrisy that happens so often. A good friend of mine is a vegetarian, but I don't think she is doing it for the right reasons. She drives me crazy. She tells me I'm disgusting and crude for eating meat, yet it is okay for her to wear leather. Last time I checked, in order to get the leather off the cow you had to kill it. So why is it ok to kill an animal to make boots, but not ok to kill an animal to eat?
I also see a lot of uninformed vegetarians. They make this major, life-changing choice without understanding what they are getting in to. They gobble down food packed with gelatin, etc. without even realising they are eating an animal. They don't bother to find alternative sources of protein and iron, and they end up sick for no reason; they are still eating animals anyways. If you aren't going to be informed about it and understand what you are getting in to, why bother? I think that the choice is one you should really consider deeply before making any lifestyle changes; there are both practical and moral issues to be examined here.

[stellaluna]

I'm a vegetarian for around 4 1/2 years now, this means I was 11 when I stopped eating meat. I'll tell you about the very moment I became a vegetarian:

I was on a journey with my class. We had sausages for dinner and then, suddenly, half-through a sausage (what was my fav. food at that time) a thought crossed my mind, like " Hey, what do I eat animals for? ".
well, since that very moment I never ate meat ( at least, this is what I know, one can't be sure about the indegrets (sp?) in conserves etc).

But, what I have to say is, that I'm not one of those vegetarians, that stare onto a meat-eaters plate and try to force them into puking by telling them how the animals were murdered. I think everyone should decide for himself wether he wants to eat meat or not.

And, about veganism. Again, everyone has to decide for himself, but I'm not a vegan because I never saw a chicken that gave an egg because she was forced to do it. They do it anyway, they don't have pain and I don't see the reason why I should refuse to eat it then. Same with cows...

[Moonlight]

I eat meat and I don't exactly see naything wrong with it...
True the way some farmers treat livestock is appalling but that is because they are trying to make more money by selling more animals because the supermarkets aren't paying enough because of the publics demand for lower prices...:phew:...
But that doesn't mean I hate vegetarians and think they are wackos...no far from it..I respect them for being open minded and conscience of their environment.

But I'm a little confused baout vegans...why don't they want to eat cheese, which is made of milk--Surely when they were babies they drank milk, what changed their minds and what's their main source for calcium?

[remusjlupin1980]

I'll add my $0.02 in the issue:

I am not a vegetarian at all. Most of the foods I eat contain something dead in it. It doesn't bother me at all and I've seen animals being slaughtered too.

I have nothing against vegetarians or vegans per se. They eat what they want to eat. They believe what they want to believe.

The ones I have a beef with are ANIMAL RIGHTS ACTIVISTS (PETA, ALF, ect). They do more harm than good, quite frankly. Their beliefs and their goals are unrealistic and, quite frankly, dangerous. Though I do agree that we shouldn't be needlessly cruel to animals and that we should protect them and care for them as humanely as possible, animal RIGHTS is not the way to go...ANIMAL WELFARE already does that job.

Animal rights activists are people who want us stop using animals period. If they get their way, human beings will become vegans, not wear any clothes made from animals, not have any medicines tested on animals, not see any trained animals in the movies, TV or circuses, not play ANY sports involving the use of an animal and not keep any pets (yes, they're against keeping pets and are working to exterminate domesticated animals) and even campaign to close all zoos (NO EXCEPTIONS). That means humans will have absolutely no contact with any animals whatsoever. They're freakin' nuts.

Animal welfare, on the other hand, do not mind people using animals for food, clothing, etc. as long as it's all done humanely and are environmentally sound. If you love animals, support animal WELFARE, not animal RIGHTS.

[Mad Macca]

I have been a vegetarian for about 5.5 years. At first I became a vegtarian because my mother wanted to, and I followed her decision. But then I realised that some animals go through harsh treatment to get onto our tables. I totally agree with your philosophy Emma.
But I also think that vegetarians have very high morals, and I think that it is amazing thst they feel so strongly about something that is important to them, and that they cant eat mmeat. For me, it is my morals, I think that it is unneccessary to eat an animal to survive, when we can eat something that does not have a brain, and still live. In Primary school, I always got teased by kids about being a vegetarian, but through it all, because of my morals I still stood up to what I believed was right!

[stellaluna]

Originally posted by Remus Lupin (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=135450#post135450))
Well i sort of beleive int the "Circle of life" principal. I eat meat, when i die, my body helps grass grow, and in turn animals eat me.


The tale your mentioning ther is one of my favourites...

It's about the Native Americans once making a contract with the animals, promising that the huimans would only kill just as much animals as they truly needed to survive. And only as long as this contract was held, the Circle of Life would be ok.

No need to tell that humans broke that contract, a part reaon why I am a vegeterian.

[Yavanna]

I am a pollo vegitarian (only eat chicken and turkey) but not for any animal rights reasons, I just hate red meat. I hate how it is fatty and how it is gross. I haven't eaten it since 5th grade, 8+ years ago. I just don't like it. I tried to be a total vegitarian, but my muscle mass went down and I couldn't find anything to eat when I went on band trips, since they give you a limited menu.

[stellaluna]

Lauren, you do realize that you wrote that before? On top of the page? ;)

[jedily]

Although I'm not a vegetarian/vegan, I have done alot of research on the subject and totally support the decision of anyone who chooses to be.

A webpage with statistics on veganism and meat consumerism : www.peta.org/mc/facts/fsveg5.html

Some weblinks on milk consumtion: www.nomilk.com www.milksucks.com

[Weatherby]

stellaluna - Really? Whoops!
:) I'm embarassed now. I completely didn't see the black dot on the folder..

gryffindor21hp - That sounds like a healthy diet.

I'm concerned since my older sis is on the 'Atkins diet'. She doesn't eat fruit. I don't see how eating mainly meat is healthy.

[stellaluna]

Hey, no problem... I was just surprised to read that again :huh:...

:lol:

I am completely healthy and happy since 4 ²/³ years without meat.

[Fuchsia]

I've been a vegetarian since I was 11 years old.
It was my mom's idea. She can never go ona diet alone so even though I was thin I went along with it. She caved for Thanksgiving
and I didn't. I'm stubborn as hell and even though I had years of punishments (for not eating meat when she decided I should again) I never looked back.

I'll drink milk and stuff though. I'm not vegan.

Maybe I'm not a good person to write in this thread since I'm weird and most people don't become vegetarians the way that I did.

If I didn't then though I would have after the Paul McCartney episode of The Simpsons. Paul says to do it? Okay!

[stellaluna]

:lol: Fuchsia! I was 11 too...

[go_anna40]

I'm not a vegetarian nor a vegan, and I nothing against it.
I guess, the only reason why I don't feel guility about eating animals is because I "believe" in the "food circle."
I guess it's really a part of life.

[stellaluna]

But the "food circle" was broken by the hmans. There are way too much animals killed, only a very little part of it would actually be needed.

[Crystal]

I'm not vegetarian but my boyfriend is. He's very healthy but it would be difficult for me to be veggie, mainly because I am allergic to peppers, but also because I require a Higher protein diat or I risk injury, because meat is mostly protein and readaly available it is easier to eat that than to check values in various veggie meals. Also Quorn is fairly expensive!
I DO however by organic whenever I can

[Yavanna]

Originally posted by Weatherby (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258918#post258918))


gryffindor21hp - That sounds like a healthy diet.



Yeah, it has helped me keep my weight, since I don't eat fatty meats. I do eat a lot of carbs though, though I love salads. I am also lactose intolerant. I try to eat healthy, and I am so pround of myself now that I exercise too! I run 1 mile every day and do crunches!! :clappy:

[Aranel]

Originally posted by Fuchsia (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=259149#post259149))
I've been a vegetarian since I was 11 years old...



Originally posted by stellaluna Fuchsia! I was 11 too...

Whoa... *looks around all suspicious* I was 11 too, seems someone has made this into a plot, we mus tget to the bottom of this...

EDIT: well, well, well, it seems this goes for Weatherby as well.

[Crystal]

Originally posted by Harry_Potter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=145208#post145208))
I became vegan and I did it for my cat too. I went to an online site that said you could feet cats certain soy foods.


As you probably guessed they lied!!! It probably couldn't catch enough meat to keep it alive or ate a poisoned rat or mouse or somthing!
Cats are the only pet that can only live off meat (except parinahs) they cannot digest plant based products!

[migo]

If I were an apple tree
I wouldn't like to have my leaves shaken up. If I were a cow
I wouldn't like to be on the death row all my life.
If I were hay
I wouldn't like to die so soon in my life.
If I were a chicken
I wouldn't like to spend my whole life in the dark.


Humans are cruel to both animals and vegetals. But we have two choices actually. Either we drop our organised food chain and 99% of the human world starves to death or we continue to stand by our place in the food chain and be cruel.

I for one. When I eat a vegetable soup or when I eat at burguer king I don't think in the last feelings those beings had before dying. I just try to stay alive and don't experience those exact feelings so soon.

[stellaluna]

I guess nobody cares about the "food-chain"- contra argument I did.

Oh well.

[Harry_Potter]

I eat meat because it tastes good, and I am on a high protein diet.

[stellaluna]

Argh. I love being ignored, thankses.

[Weatherby]

I agree with you stellaluna.
I think the foodchain idea isn't really as important for humans. We have pills for vitamin b12 afterall.

[stellaluna]

Thank you Weatherby :).

The foodchain is just a cheap excuse. That's not meant as an offence, but -meat-eaters- just think about it... you'll see it's nonsense.

[Aranel]

Yeah, I agree with you too stellaluna.
People have way too much meat on their plate, if you choose to eat it, it shouldn't be the main part of the meal, well that's what I think.

[migo]

stellaluna,

The foodchain isn't nonsense. It's nonsense if you use it to excuse meat eating. But you force your superiority towards vegetables as others force their superiority towards animals. This is the foodchain and we are on top of it.

There is one thing I'm sure. It's cruel to eat anything at all. You've taken a life for your survival.

As I said before, I rather be cruel now and don't die of starvation. Perhaps in some years time we will be able to eat without killing.

[stellaluna]

Originally posted by stellaluna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=256096#post256096))

It's about the Native Americans once making a contract with the animals, promising that the huimans would only kill just as much animals as they truly needed to survive. And only as long as this contract was held, the Circle of Life would be ok.

No need to tell that humans broke that contract, a part reaon why I am a vegeterian.


Mhmhhm... that's my point migo.

I'm generally against humans being the top of everything and therefore being allowed to do, kill and eat what they want.

Never mind me, it's ok if you think different.

[Hermione Bailey]

I'm not a veggie but my friend is. And to be honest he really drives me mad trying to get me to become one too. Always preaching, I'm not allowed to eat any meat products in his presence or he will lecture me, etc. :angry: :banghead: If someone cooks some chicken for me and puts it on a plate, the animal won't magically come alive if i DON'T eat it.

I really can't ever seeing myself becoming a veggie, I love meat too much. I love vegetables too but I couldn't eat them only. And those Quorn products: they taste disgusting. (sorry Quorn fans)

I have no problem with veggies: as long as they don't try to make me feel guilty for eating meat. I should be able to eat what I like!


rant over!

[stellaluna]

It's not that we veggies only eat vegetables, is it? ;)

[Hermione Bailey]

Hehe! Yeah I know what you mean but I'm not a big fan of the veggie alternatives either: pasta, etc. :)

[Mad Macca]

Pasta isn't a vegetarian alternative. I agree that meat-eaters are eating too much meat. You see people with these huge steaks on their plates, and the tiniest amount of vegetables, or pasta. We have broken the circle of life, instead of eating what we only need, they are taking more.

[Hermione Bailey]

You know what i mean though (i said "pasta ETC")! What IS a veggie alternative then?

I don't know about other meat eaters but I don't think I eat too much meat.

I'm digging a deep hole for myself here...*shuts up*

[Aranel]

uh, uh, those incredibly disgusting "fake" meats (as I like to call them) eg. Soy Sausages, mum feeds them to us, i don't like them.

Alot of people think our diets consist only of Vegetables and pasta, and those 'weird' foods. They are almost a taboo to some meat eaters, mention Tofu and alot of people cringe, even thought they have never tasted it.
A vegetarian diet can be really diverse, it's because we have to search for alternatives to fufill our dietary needs.

[lanifiel]

I'm a meat eater, I admit it, I love to dine on the flesh of another animal. It really doesnt bother me. I've lived without meat for a few months but it never stuck. I like it, I'm not ashamed of it either :)

[stellaluna]

Shame on you lani ;). Just kidding.

Originally posted by Hermione Bailey (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=281662#post281662))
You know what i mean though (i said "pasta ETC")! What IS a veggie alternative then?

I don't know about other meat eaters but I don't think I eat too much meat.

I'm digging a deep hole for myself here...*shuts up*


Hey Hermione, there's no reason to be offended :). You were only misunderstood, that can sometimes happen :).

I'm getting tired of people thinking we veggis are just and only nibbing around at quorn and vegetables. I mean, imagine, we eat (nearly )everything that's without meat, it's not only vegetables and that tofu stuff :).

[Aranel]

Yeah, if I happen to mention that I'm vegetarian, I get this look, "Whoa, stand back, Hippie in sight!"
It's so funny, people love to stereotype. Soo amusing, people think I'm way out there because I don't eat meat.
I actually don't mind being called a hippie.

[stellaluna]

I don't either. I enjoy being given nicknames... Half the school calls me hippie, I don't mind ;).

[Aranel]

I think the fact that I listen to Marley and Cat Stevens helps!! :D :D
Whoa, I just checked your profile...
Sarah, born in '87 too, this is kinda weird.

Any way back on topic: Does any one else find it hard to get food at school canteens etc? I do, unless you want to eat total junk. I think this is because our canteen is privatly owned, they only sell what they can make money on and anything healthy that we actually would like, they put the price up soo high we have no choice for the other stuff.

[stellaluna]

I love Marley and Stevens too :). 87 is the best jear to be born; we're cool ;).

Our school has no canteen; but in other canteens (or wherever one gets foot from) I didn't see that problem this much. I'm so used being a veggie... Don't know, I never had much trouble getting food :).

[AvidSkyRise]

I think vegetarianism is a very good thing
I tried it before and I didn't work, I am too used to eating meat, my system couldn't handle it lol
But I say it's a great thing, more power to you!

[Mad Macca]

Thanks AvidSkyRise. People do think your a hippie! I always get noticed for being a vegetarian. But in primary school, this kid kept calling me Vegavore, and that kinda hurt, dont worry, when he put a big fat juicy steak on my plate at our year 6 farewell, I shoved cucumber down his shirt!

[Weatherby]

I've been in many situations where I couldn't eat at all because people (including my mom) refused to serve anything but meat.

[Mad Macca]

Thats a bummer, my mum's a vegetarian too, so it's all cool :D

[Aranel]

Originally posted by stellaluna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=282093#post282093))
I love Marley and Stevens too :). 87 is the best jear to be born; we're cool ;).

Our school has no canteen; but in other canteens (or wherever one gets foot from) I didn't see that problem this much. I'm so used being a veggie... Don't know, I never had much trouble getting food :).


I only have this problem at school, no-where else as I know what to look for.
But if there is no food in the cupboards (this happens quite regularly:angry: ), and I need to buy my lunch, I really have no choice of what I want to eat. I have to each chocolate (which is not always bad :drool: ). I find it really sucky when restaurants don't cater for different diets, we usually ring up before-hand. Now we know all the restaurants in our town that have vegetarian foods, and most of it is really good!!

[stellaluna]

In Restaurants? I've never seen a restaurant that doesn't have a little offer of vegetarian food. Weird, must be some culteral difference ;).

[Weatherby]

I was stuck at camp for 2 weeks my first year of being a vegetarian. They didn't offer much for me to eat. They wouldn't cook anything special.

I get dragged to resteraunts for barbeques and they'll serve crappy french fries. :)

[Aranel]

Originally posted by stellaluna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=284229#post284229))
In Restaurants? I've never seen a restaurant that doesn't have a little offer of vegetarian food. Weird, must be some culteral difference ;).


I correct myself, I should have said Clubs, like the RSL etc They offer nothing!! And when you ask for something they give you a plate of boiled vegetables.... Flavour please!!

[nfh_aftran]

Personally, I'm a little against vegetarianism. We have canine teeth. I don't eat that much meat, I only eat meat for dinner(I LOVE pb&j....and Cheerios!)so you can't say I'm breaking up the circle of life. Why is it wrong for humans to eat meat and ok for other animals? Yeah, we're more intelligent. Bust so are other primates, porpoises, dolphins, and whales. The animals we eat are not sencient(how do you spell that?). If you think they raise the animals cruelly, buy halal meat. Those people have to follow strict guidelines set by the Quran, and they're doing it out of religion, and they're doing it voluntarily.

[j_thunders]

I think people will eventually give up eating meat altogether, in years to come. I'm not sure how long it will take, but considering eating meat isn't necessary, I think we'll get rid of that part of our diet. I mean, you can get the same things from meat (like protein, etc) from other food products which aren't meat. I don't eat a lot of meat, but not just because I feel a little guilty about killing animals. I just don't like the taste at all, and there are only a few exceptions to that. I'm planning on trying out vegetarianism this summer when I have more time to try other foods.

[stellaluna]

Yay j thunders! I believe in you :).

[j_thunders]

Originally posted by stellaluna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=292682#post292682))
Yay j thunders! I believe in you :).


Thank you! I really hope I can do this though. It'll probably make me feel healthier too, if I become a vegetarian.

[Aranel]

I feel physically sick just at the thought of eating meat, and when I did eat meat, I would only eat certain types because I just didn't like the taste, but the thing that really got me was that whilst chewing on my piece of steak or whatever, all I could see in my mind was a baby animal of what I was eating. I couldn't get past it, and so, for me, there's no point in eating meat, so I don't, it's a personal choice.

When my friends 'tease' me about being vegetarian, they say, 'what about the carrots? How do you think they feel?' I have seriously heard that over 500 times. I just get annoyed because they can't come up with something better... "PLEASE, something original!!!"

[Mad Macca]

[i]Originally posted by nfh_aftran
Why is it wrong for humans to eat meat and ok for other animals?


Humans have imagination and a conscience. We can imagine what the animal would be going through and stuff like that, but if an animal were to eat another animal, they would just think nothing of it like we do.

[Maxi Malfoy]

:devil: I stop eating meat not too long ago because I got in this way of thinking of eating meat is wrong you are eating an animal! I will stick to my veggies and not even eat any sea food as well!
Anyone else feel the same way I do? Please explain why? Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[wolfie]

I'm a vegetarian too. I can't eat another animal that has feelings. It just makes me sad. Actually what made me become a vegetarian was watching the movie 'Babe' (you know, the one about the pig). I know that pigs don't really talk, but they do really have feelings!

I do eat fish however... because I don't really think of fish as having feelings (especially shellfish. I don't think that they actually have a brain anyway).

[Maxi Malfoy]

:devil: I argee with you on eating animals are wrong but I still think it is wrong also to eat fish or any kind of sea food, Even if they do not have any brains to me it is still horrible! Do you eat milk? I do not because it came from an animal a cow no doubt! Anyway evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:devil::devil:

[Fuchsia]

There is a topic in Knockturn Alley about this too. It is Vegetarianism/Veganism (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4688)

[Tarawyn]

Thanks for pointing that out, Fuschia. Search isn't really working right now, so I didn't notice. I'll merge this with the other thread.

[Sredni Vashtar]

The way I see it most animals aren't "humane" in the way they kill their prey. If you watch a typical housecat, it will play with the live prey for a while before it severs the spinal cord and begins to gut the animal.

Dogs (Canids of any kind) will hunt down a large deer as a pack, then tear it apart while it is still alive.

Crocodiles will simply grab a critter and gulp it down whole, or roll around in the water till (a) critter is ripped in two or (b) critter has drowned.

Komodo Dragons will bite its prey and then follow it for days as it slowly dies from an anaerobic bacteria infection (gangrene) which is a very painful way to die.

None of these animals worries about the way its food feels before it is eaten.

As an omnivorous animal, man routinely kills and eats meat. The difference between humans and other animals is we use most of the prey we don't eat for other things (apparel, Jell-o, dog food, etc.). While commercial slaughterhouses can be or look cruel, if you eat meat you kind of need them to be around. Very few of us have the knowledge and skill it takes to hunt for our own prey, then skin and dress the carcass.

All politics aside, I firmly believe that humans are meant to eat meat just as they are meant to eat vegetation. In many cases, a vegan diet can be detrimental to growing children. There are a lot of very healthy vegans and vegetarians out there, but I've personally known a couple of vegans who were the most unhealthy, pasty-skinned, run-down folks I've seen - mainly because they don't know anything about nutrition. I've also seen several news stories about people who tried to feed their children pure vegan diets, only to have the children die of malnutrition, or the children are taken away from them because they are malnurished, not growing at a normal rate, and almost always at least partially brain-damaged.

Kudos to those who are able to sustain themselves on a pure vegetarian diet. I am unable to do it since there aren't aren't enough veggies I like, and I absolutely hate beans. I tried living vegetarian for a while and I was always hungry and always weak and tired.

I prefer chicken and fish to red meat. I don't usually eat pork because the smell of it is too close to burnt human flesh (trust me, I know).

Originally posted by Harry_Potter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=145208#post145208))
I became vegan and I did it for my cat too. I went to an online site that said you could feet cats certain soy foods. After 2 weeks my cat collapsed and I had to get it euthanized.


Not to pick on you, Harry_Potter, but this is one of my biggest pet peeves. Just because a human is Vegan doesn't give that person a right to impose his diet on his pets. Especially cats, which are one of the true carnivores in the world. They may chew grass, but they cannot live on a vegetarian diet. Period. They have canines for biting into their prey and holding on. Their molars are used to shear the meat off the bone and to crack the bones. They are not mean to eat vegetables at all.

On a similar note, I once worked at a pet store. During Passover, a Hassidic Jewish woman came into the store and asked to buy a hamster. She mentioned her religion and said they do not allow grain of any kind into their home during passover, so was there anything else the hamster could eat? I told her it was possible the little rodent could eat fresh veggies, but to expect that hamster to get Wet Tail (virilent nasty diarrhea, which usually kills hamsters even when treated for it). I refused to sell her the hamster because I just couldn't get it through her head that she'd be sentencing that animal to starvation and dehydration, possibly death during the two weeks of Passover.

Then I quietly reminded her that rodents are unclean (according to her faith) anyway, so why would she allow a hamster into the home?

If you have a pet, give it what its species requires. Don't anthropomorphise the animal and assume it can live according to your dietary needs.

[miri]

I'm a vegetarian, and it's something that I feel is the right decision for me, personally. I didn't eat that much meat or fish before I turned veggie (or vegetables for that matter...) so I didn't find the conversion hard. In fact, I now eat more vegetables than I did before, so in some ways my diet's healthier.

I get upset when my cat kills stuff, but I do recognise that it's in his nature.

Cats, apparently, cannot synthesise the same amino acids we do, and hence a vegetarian diet is really bad for them. I wasn't considering trying to convert him before I saw a site about that (although seeing as he loves eggs and cheese my family say he's trying to be one) and I really feel sorry for you, Harry_Potter.

If you look on official sites like this (http://www.vegsoc.org/) then you should get reliable information.

[Falcon]

Well, I'll weigh in here, just for the heck of it. I'm a meat eater from way back. I worked on a ranch, and I've seen animals slaughtered at the meat packing plants, and I've seen my uncle skin deer, and my best friend skin squirrels. I love meat. Beef, Deer, Pork, I'm not much for chicken, but I do like it occasionally. I've always heard that panther was good eatin', but have never had the chance to try it. I eat lots of vegetables, and love them too.

I have never met a vegetarian in my life, probably because they would get laughed out of the county. I had never understood what the difference between a vegan and vegetarian was until coming to this thread.

I don't agree with the animal rights people, because I think they take things too far. I wear leather, and eat meat, and I've gone hunting, and love the taste of fresh deer meat. MMmm. Sorry, imagination took off there, it's been a long while since I last had deer. I eat fish, and seafood, and can't understand how anyone could voluntarily cut meat from their diet. I don't have a problem with those that do however. It's their choice, and more power to them, I just hope they return the favor and let me decide to eat what I want without lectures or trying to get any laws passed to outlaw meat.

Falcon

[Hagrid442]

I know my feelings have been echoed in this thread so far. That is, I eat meat (probably too much) and don't feel guilty that I do. I have respect for vegetarians and vegans for their dietary choices, though. I can only imagine how difficult it is to maintain such a diet. What I do not like are people that want to impose their diets on other people. I've heard stories about PETA campaigning at elementary schools to get kids to quit drinking milk. Also heard they tried to get Hamburg, NY to change their name to Veggieburg or something like that, and they bribed them with $10,000 worth of Veggieburgers. I have also heard that radical animal rights people have resorted to bombings or other sorts of violence in some cases.

However, with all that said, I'm alarmed over something that Texas wants to implement. They want to make it illegal for animal rights activists to even photograph or demonstrate at factory farms. There are stiff penalties at work here, too. Here's the story on that (http://www.workingforchange.com/article.cfm?itemid=15046&CFID=7459598&CFTOKEN=20434780) This alarms me because it punishes the non-radical, reasonable activists that act as a check on these factory farms. I guess it resonates with me also because it's another example of how the First Amendment is being stripped down. Ironic that there are a lot of people that think the Second Amendment is more important than the First.

[nfh_aftran]

Sredni Vastar, pork does smell way too much like human flesh....i think it has to do with them being omnivores....disgusting.

I'm a tree-hugging, animal nut, but I still eat meat. If I do fight for animal rights, it's for the dolphins and gorillas and chimpanzees(how do you spell that?). But meat? I kinda like the way it tastes. I'm not sure whether hunting is ok or not.....where I live, the deer population is way out of hand. I would say to reintroduce the wolf population, but that would also have a huge impact on the ecosystem....but it would adjust, eventually.

Honestly, some people are idiots! Big hypocrites....don't want to hear other peoples opinions......how on earth can the 2nd Amendment be more important than the 1st? I don't like the press, but they still have the right.....*mumbles incoherently about prejudice bigots*

Harry_Potter, cats are carnivores. It's ironic....an animal got sick because it's owner was trying to be an animal rights activist....or at least I hope that's why you did it. You didn't do it because of some stupid diet, right?

[Maxi Malfoy]

I believe that eating any kind of animal is wrong! I do not eat any kind of animal nor drink milk from any kind of cow I stick to water most of the time or sometimes soda nor do I belive in useing any thing tested on an animal and have my own garden. Does anyone have the same issues as me? Anyway evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil:

[stellaluna]

I'd like to hear why you refuse milk. I'm a vegetarian but not a vegan.

[::Revolutionary::]

I'm not a vegetarian. I like meat to much(So shoot me). But we(as in my parents) only buy ecological(sp) products, and we would NEVER buy eggs from chickens who have been put together 10 in a 2 chicken cage...etc....

[prairie_dog]

Hehe, do you see these? :D or these :sorry: ? They are called teeth. If you don't have those, you can go to a dentist and get fake ones. Anyways, these buddies are called TEETH and are there for eating meat, yes, meat! Unlike cows we are high in the food chain (or even ontop of it) So use them teeth. :D


Alright, don't take this post too serious, I'm just trying to provoke you folks :clappy: :angel: I am not a vegetarian but respect those who are even though I don't understand how you can live off lettuce only :bite:

[j_thunders]

Originally posted by prairie_dog (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=348586#post348586))
Alright, don't take this post too serious, I'm just trying to provoke you folks :clappy: :angel: I am not a vegetarian but respect those who are even though I don't understand how you can live off lettuce only :bite:


Okay, I'm not picking on you, but vegetarians eat more than just lettuce, or salad or whatever you want to call it. I'm not eating meat anymore, but I don't eat salad either. Never really liked it.

My family eats a lot of pasta, you know like things in the grain section of the food pyramid, vegetables, and occasionally fruit (no one in my family seems to like fruit as much as I do though). Whenever we have meat for dinner, I'll just make myself something else. It's actually been a lot easier to cut meat out of my diet than I thought it would be. Except for the times where I go to restaurants and I see something that looks great, but it'll say something like "Pasta....with chicken!" And it'll have the chicken cut up in tiny pieces all over the pasta, and kind of hard to avoid. If I had to pick one kind of meat that I do like, it would be chicken, so it's kind of tempting. So that's the only bad part.

[prairie_dog]

Originally posted by j_thunders (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=348601#post348601))
Okay, I'm not picking on you, but vegetarians eat more than just lettuce, or salad or whatever you want to call it. I'm not eating meat anymore, but I don't eat salad either. Never really liked it.

My family eats a lot of pasta, you know like things in the grain section of the food pyramid, vegetables, and occasionally fruit (no one in my family seems to like fruit as much as I do though).

I didn't say eating pasta, fruit and veggies wasn't great, it just doesn't fit into my mind that people won't eat meat at all, back in the day where the cave men's greatest meal was grilled antilope or sth. ^^ jk

Personally, I love eating fruit to death. Apples, bananas, stawberries, everything tastes great to me, there's no fruit I don't like which is good for the immense summe of vitamins I need for doing sports etc.
But pasta doesn't really help your protein level, does it? Thought it was carbs as well as white flour... HOw can you restore protein, this ToFu stuff?
Alright, talk to you folks tomorrow, gonna go to bed now ;-) good night.

[virtuousbumblebee]

I haven't read the majority of the posts in this thread, so excuse me if I repeat something.
Anyway, this year a lot of my friends took a class where they spent a good part of their time reading, discussing, etc. a book called "Animal Rights" (I think). I didn't take this class, but I've heard several things about it. Apparently though, if everyone in the world was vegetarian, many, many more animals would be killed than as it is. Has anyone else read this book? Thoughts, comments?

[j_thunders]

Trying to reply to two people...

There are other sources of protein besides meat. I think, aren't beans high in protein? And you can eat them plain or in soup or whatever you want. So are eggs, and they're still in my diet. Different nuts are high in protein also. Not just meat, is my point. And if for some strange reason, a person does not have any protein in their diet whatsoever (that would be kind of hard to accomplish, though) there's always protein supplements. Most people don't need them. You'd have to be pretty strict about your diet to need a supplement of any kind. Unless there's something wrong with your health and you need more of something than most other people. I don't know.

And to a different person: I don't want to talk everyone into becoming a vegetarian. I'm not that obsessed with it. I hope we can just accept that some people eat meat and some don't, and we should just leave it at that. That doesn't mean animal-rights activists should stop protesting, because it is disgusting the way people torture these animals. If you go to peta.com I'm sure you'll find out more. I've only heard of so much, and if I tried to share it I probably wouldn't get the details right anyhow. But even they tend to concentrate more on fighting the senseless abuse of animals than the use of animals for food.

[Maxi Malfoy]

Originally posted by stellaluna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=347734#post347734))
I'd like to hear why you refuse milk. I'm a vegetarian but not a vegan.


Milk came from a cow and a cow is an animal and taking the milk from the cow to me is the same as eating an animal! That is why I stick with freah water and fruit.
People could do without eating an animal and still be living so why let one animal suffer because you are hungry? Inleast that is how I see it!
Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:angry: :devil:

[Crystal]

Originally posted by Hagrid442 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=340746#post340746))
I have also heard that radical animal rights people have resorted to bombings or other sorts of violence in some cases.




It is a sad fact but that is true. The building were I have a large prrtion of my lectures contains a small medical animal testing lab (it's turned out one of the best drugs for controling diabeties and a cancer treatment wich improves survival rates for breast, colorectal and prostate cancers tenfold).
Unfortunatly the local animal rights supporters have a few nastier members (I'm not saying they are ALL nasty, most of them are happy to respect the people who work and learn there, the most they do are peaceful protests outside the building) HOWEVER a tiny minority have firebombed, letter bombed and attempted to gas bomb, the building, a building containing around 300 people, not including students. There was also a couple of nasty shooting incidents and staff and even students who are unconnected with the facility (our collage of art is right next door) have been beaten up, the place is now bristeling with security cameras.
It is frightening to note that our local hospital, were much research also occurs has also been attacked, but fortunatly no-one was injured.

[Dark Fallen Pride]

Im vegan
Eating animals is wrong...if i did eat animals I'd probably be just fine with eating humans because I see them in the same light
I dont drink milk or eat eggs becase your taking away something from the animal...something that either belongs to their offspring or what could be thier offspring.
and their would be plenty of room for farmland for vegans
The animals are treated badly and even if they weren't its not right to eat an animal ANIMALS HAVE THIER RIGHTS TOO!!!!

Yes some animal rights people go to harsh measures but so do many other groups and not all of the ARA do this.

[ALFSupporter]

I reject unnecessary animal cruelty. Therefore I'm vegan.

Crystal's claims of physical assault and letterbombing are false. There have been 3 documented cases of actual animal rights violence (that is - bodily harm to a human or threatening bodily harm to a human). Two were in the UK against Huntingdon Life Sciences, and the other one was razor blades sent in enveloped to vivisection labs. There's never been an animal rights letterbomb campaign - this would've made national news.

Crystal's claims of property destruction may or may not be true. In any case, I support that. Even those who are not animal rightists can understand someone's support for direct action which breaks property. If one takes the viewpoint that animals have rights, then these places are just like Auschwitz. You don't peacefully protest a concentration camp, you break down the walls.

- jerm

[Maxi Malfoy]

Originally posted by Dark Fallen Pride (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=355446#post355446))
Im vegan
Eating animals is wrong...if i did eat animals I'd probably be just fine with eating humans because I see them in the same light
I dont drink milk or eat eggs becase your taking away something from the animal...something that either belongs to their offspring or what could be thier offspring.
and their would be plenty of room for farmland for vegans
The animals are treated badly and even if they weren't its not right to eat an animal ANIMALS HAVE THIER RIGHTS TOO!!!!

Yes some animal rights people go to harsh measures but so do many other groups and not all of the ARA do this.


:devil: Dark Fallen Pride you are just like me and we think the same too it is good to see someone on the same boat as me! I also do not eat eggs either!
:devil: I forgot to mention that until you said it so thanks! Evil is everywhere but mosty just in here!:devil:

[jedily]

Has anyone heard of the Paleolithic diet? It consists of normal vegetarian fare and meat, but no dairy. Some of the anti-dairy hoopla is the fact that humans were not meant to drink the milk of other animals and that it isn't meant as a normal part of the human diet. Cow milk- for baby cows. Human milk- for baby humans.

Some links:

www.beyondveg.com

www.panix.com/~paleodiet/

More on the anti-dairy stuff:

www.nomilk.com

www.milksucks.com

[Falcon]

I'm gonna jump in here and address a few things.

I don't believe in the Animal Rights stuff. The only rights animals have are the ones we give em'. That being said, I cannot stand to see an animal in pain. I've seen calves castrated, and roosters capanized, and I personally could not inflict the pain upon them. However, I will kill an animal in an instant if I am hungry, or if the animal attacks me or mine. That includes the animal attacking my animals.

Just a quick question for all the veg people; Have any of y'all ever had FRESH meat? By fresh, I mean killed just maybe an hour ealier.

I don't believe that Animal Rights Activists have any right to assault or cause property damage of any kind. If they do, then they should be treated like the criminals they are. I understand people feeling strongly about animal rights, but that don't give you (the animal rights activist) the right to assault somebody that disagrees with you and is just doing their job. ARA's attacking labs would be the same as some random person coming to your house, school or place of business and beating the heck out of you just because they disagree with your stance on some issue or another.

Falcon

[remusjlupin1980]

I hate to break this to you, Animal Rights Activists but total veganism is NOT natural. Click on this link:

http://www.jules.org/biology-of-the-omnivore.html

Hardly ANY living species on earth are totally vegan.

[Dark Fallen Pride]

I could go digging around on the internet and find sites that show that humans are NOT made to consume meat but im too lazy. Just because you think its not natural doesn't mean you can't change and love all creatures on the earth if you think eating meat is right start eating humans plenty of other species eat thier kind. And go ahead and eat your young and perhaps your husband? Animals do this and your in the same kingdom so why not?

Your all acting like ARA are terrorists, well they are not there are plenty of other groups FILLED WITH MEAT EATERS that go around distroying property for rights that you beleive in but you are not a part of that group as I and many others are not part of the group that goes around distroying property.

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

Originally posted by virtuousbumblebee (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=349055#post349055))
Apparently though, if everyone in the world was vegetarian, many, many more animals would be killed than as it is.

I haven't read the book, but this has always been my primary objection to enforced vegetarianism. I think I mentioned this a couple of pages back, but cattle are incredibly destructive to local ecosystems. So are deer, if they're not kept properly in check. And with most of their natural predators endangered or entirely gone from certain areas, I'd rather see a few killed and used for food than let the entire herd starve because there weren't enough resources left. Plus, we've domesticated some animals to an extent that they can't survive without us. Wild turkeys are smart, but domesticated turkeys will allegedly stand out in the rain and drown if we let them. Are we willing to wait for natural selection to correct that?

I'm all for better living conditions for them, but it's not enough to say, "Run, little animals, be free!" Our omnivorous lifestyle has been thousands of years in the making. We can't change it that quickly or easily.

[remusjlupin1980]

. Just because you think its not natural doesn't mean you can't change and love all creatures on the earth if you think eating meat is right start eating humans plenty of other species eat thier kind. And go ahead and eat your young and perhaps your husband? Animals do this and your in the same kingdom so why not?

I do love all creatures on Earth (except maybe flies, cockroaches and mosquitoes) and I think we should take care of them and treat them humanely as best we can. But that doesn't mean I don't have the right to kill them and eat them. I do. We're on top of the food chain because we are smarter than all of them. Yes, certain species of animals do practice cannibalism but we humans are smart enough not to have that instinct in us. Well, MOST of us anyway.

Your all acting like ARA are terrorists, well they are not there are plenty of other groups FILLED WITH MEAT EATERS that go around distroying property for rights that you beleive in but you are not a part of that group as I and many others are not part of the group that goes around distroying property

Maybe so but I've never heard of any meat eaters rights activists destroying a tofu factory or a vegetable farm.

[Falcon]

Originally posted by Dark Fallen Pride (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=357151#post357151))
Your all acting like ARA are terrorists, well they are not there are plenty of other groups FILLED WITH MEAT EATERS that go around distroying property for rights that you beleive in but you are not a part of that group as I and many others are not part of the group that goes around distroying property.


I consider anyone that destroys private property in the name of this cause or that cause to be terrorists. Now, that to me is defined by using terror to cause someone or someones to stop doing something that the cause disagrees with.

I'm proud to be a meat eater, and can't imagine my life without a big thick juicy steak, or cheeseburgers or milk and eggs or sausage, or fresh killed deer meat, and to be honest, I don't want to even try. Y'all veggie people can have your tofu, bean curd, and whathaveyou, just leave me and my ability to get a juicy steak at any restaurant alone. Now, I know not everybody is a militant veggie or ARA, but the worst ones of y'all's groups are giving the rest of y'all a bad name.

Falcon

[Mad Macca]

I dont give two hoots whether people eat meat, Its their decision to do so, and I dont want to change it. I'm a vegetarian, and what annoys me is that people go up to me and say "Gawd! I cant believe you dont eat meat! You so should! It's un-healthy!" They dont respect my decision, and they go and shove pieces of steak in my face. ANd its like get out of my face! I respect your decision to eat meat, so respect mine not to!

Rant over :)

[Weatherby]

Macca- that's my problem as well. I wish people wouldn't try dictating what I eat.

Falcon - those are sterotypes about vegetarians. I've never had tofu and I do eat cheese. There's many types of vegetarians.

[Amadeus]

I've thought about the animal/vegetarian issue countless times too, but I think if we try to discuss both side's points, it will be a never-ending debate.


So try to not worry about it as much and just eat whatever you want..


we are animals after all...


the only thing that makes us different from other animals is that we have higher IQs...

[Crystal]

Originally posted by ALFSupporter (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=355541#post355541))
I reject unnecessary animal cruelty. Therefore I'm vegan.

Crystal's claims of physical assault and letterbombing are false. There have been 3 documented cases of actual animal rights violence (that is - bodily harm to a human or threatening bodily harm to a human). Two were in the UK against Huntingdon Life Sciences, and the other one was razor blades sent in enveloped to vivisection labs. There's never been an animal rights letterbomb campaign - this would've made national news.

Crystal's claims of property destruction may or may not be true. In any case, I support that. Even those who are not animal rightists can understand someone's support for direct action which breaks property. If one takes the viewpoint that animals have rights, then these places are just like Auschwitz. You don't peacefully protest a concentration camp, you break down the walls.

- jerm


I know what I saw! I have been evacuated from the building several times due to bomb alerts. I've seen the student who was beaten up, it was horrible a year later, this sort of thing seldom makes the news at all, because there is a lot of support for the banning of animal testing. Also the people who actually do these things are disowned (and rightly so) by the organisations they claim to reprisent.

[remusjlupin1980]

If one takes the viewpoint that animals have rights, then these places are just like Auschwitz. You don't peacefully protest a concentration camp, you break down the walls.

Comparing the victims of the Holocaust to animals is a direct insult to the memories of the victims of the Holocaust. If you believe people shouldn't use animals, fine. But declaring that you see no difference between animals and Holocaust victims is crossing line to being ridiculous.

Most ARA's use this ploy as a feeble attempt to win sympathy, to shed some credibility to their cause but in reality they're simply people overly-traumatized by Bambi.

[Quasi_EviL]

Originally posted by remusjlupin1980 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=358583#post358583))
Comparing the victims of the Holocaust to animals is a direct insult to the memories of the victims of the Holocaust. If you believe people shouldn't use animals, fine. But declaring that you see no difference between animals and Holocaust victims is crossing line to being ridiculous.


The thing about that is, animals are (pretty much) helpless. If we want to eat them, there's nothing standing in our way.

But anyway, I'm vegetarian, but it's really only in opposition to the way slaughterhouses treat animals. It's truly, deeply disturbing. Some animals never see the light of day, and are kept in stalls just wide enough to fit them. You see happy little farms on the countryside with cows grazing in fields, but that's not where we get our meat. Slaughterhouses aren't along highways, and they also employ immigrants and take advantage of them.

[PhoenixUK]

Okay, guys. I never was a vegetarian. I used to think it was pretty stupid. Bu then I had to actually go to an abatoir and it was one of the worst places I have ever been in. It was horrible. I have not eaten any meat since then, because I would ahve to pretend I didn't know where it came from, and that would be wrong. Since then, I've done some reading, because lets face it, most of us don;t know where our McDonalds come from. What follows is a little coarse so if you're sensitive you may not want to read this bit. I've put it in spoiler tag.


Basically, abbatoirs are efficient places where animals go to die. It's not pretty. But firstly you've got to get them there. Because of tighter legislation regarding abbatoirs, there's now less of them, so animals have to be transported larger distances. It is estimated that around 5-20% animals die in transit, due to overcrowding or stress.

The animals are herded into the slaughter house. This is where the process breaks into 2 different methods. So I'll do it separately:

Poultry
Basicaly, I've never seen a real life poultry abbatoir but I'm told they're very hygenic places. They look like any other factory, the only tell-tale sign being a line of fluttering birds moving slowly.

Basically, the chickens are attatched individually by their legs to a kind of conveyor belt, upside down. They are then carried towards a bath of electrified water to stun them. However, the problem is it's water so the chickens lift their heads. Hence this is estimated to be up to 30% uneffective. They are then lead to a kind of chopping machine. This is meant to sever the chicken's head. The only problem is it's mechanical, and so is not adjusted, but not all chickens are the same, so sometimes it will hit the beak, sometimes the breast, injuring them but not killing them. This is thought to happen in less than 1% of chickens. They are then lead on to a vat of boiling water, which they are dragged through to remove feathers. A very small proportion of chickens who have not been stunned or beheaded are literally boiled to death.

Lambs, Cows, Pigs and other stuff like horses, dogs and stuff in other countries
These are obviously bigger and so a different method is used. First they are herded into the abbatoir. This is not like herding cows normally as they can smell the blood and hear the cries of other cows, and so electric cattle rods are used, which deliver high voltage, low current shocks to the animal. These are most commonly applied to the testicles of the animal. They are then herded into a pen which leads into what is called the 'stall'. Cows are fed through one by one to the stall. Here a slaughterman waits. These animals are stunned by means of a bolt gun, which is applied to the side of their head. A bolt, about as thick as a pencil, is then fired through their skull. Things then come out of the rod and stir the brain of the animal around to ensure that it is stunned. Skilled slaughtermen only need one shot, but inexperienced ones may need 3 or more shots.

The animal is then attatched by it's legs to a chain and is then transported to the rest of the slaughter house, to be butchered ready for preparation.

-oOo-

Strict guidelines exist for animal's welfare but unfortuanately these are sometimes flouted. Stories I have heard are of slaughtermen riding the animals around the abbatoir on animals, and of animals not being stunned as slaughtermen are often paid on number killed, and so skipping stunning saves time.


Hope that you didn't find that too disturbing. If you agree, want more info or disagree, PM me or reply on this thread.

Facts:

- We eat over ten times the amount of meat per person than in 1950!

- Analysts suggest that by 2050 most of the world will probably be veggie - hooray!

Mods: If you think this post is inappropriate please remove it. I put it in spoiler tag, and it is in knockturn alley, but it's still strong stuff.

[WaffenSS]

It wasn't that strong, I recoomend you people read "The Jungle" and "fast food nation".

I am not a vegitarian and will probably never will be, I've been to slaughterhouses, ive read about them, etc etc, it still doesnt bother me. I don't like fast food as a whole. If you people are bothered by this stuff and live where they have In 'n' Outs, eat at in 'n' out, their meat is a lot better and fresher than any other fast food place. They don't buy their meat from the same places as say McDonalds, Burger King, etc

I seriously recommend you guys read fast food nation.

[Bhodi]

Originally posted by Emma (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=145170#post145170))
It takes 7 years for you body to rid itself of all the meat and prossessing that is done to it. That burger you ate 2 years ago is still in your system.


The processing, use of growth hormones, steroids and other chemicals is the problem with eating meat right now... All of these additives are creating a great unknown with regard to how the consumption of products like milk, eggs and meats affect neural development and general health, particularly in children... It's definitely of some concern...

Having said that, I'm an omnivore as well, and definitely enjoy a good filet, a pork tenderloin, or a ham biscuit every now and then... By nature, our digestive tract is designed to accomodate a varied diet--it's too long for a strictly meat diet and too short for a strictly vegetarian diet... I know vegetarians who have argued that one can get all the protein that is needed by eating nuts or hempseed oil or what not, but the fact of the matter is that there are certain essential proteins that we can only acquire through consuming meat and animal products... I'm fairly certain that nutritional studies have indicated that strict vegetarianism carries with it the potential negative results of poor immunity, anemia and heightened difficulty dealing with stress... Of course, it will be interesting to see what researchers have to say about the long term negative effects of all the additives in meat and animal products down the road... I guess it's a situation where you're ****ed if you do, ****ed if you don't, so might as well let personal preferences dictate...

[chudleycannons]

My teacher is from England and she has a great accent. She's a vegetarian and she's really healthy. She never eats any meat but she does eat bread (which contains egg) and stuff like that. To me, a vegan is somebody who never eats meat, anything with meat, or anything that came from meat. One time she had a vegetarian pizza but the pizza place put little bits of ham on it. She got sick, her stomach is just not used to it. She's really cool. I'm not a vegetarian, I just can't survive without meat.

[PhoenixUK]

Yeah, that quite often happens - after about 7 years of not eating meat your body can't cope with it as different enzymes are produced, which means that meat is not effectively broken down and it makes you sick.

[Hagar]

I'm not a vegitarian nore will I ever be. I don't really get why some people decide to be one for health reasons when meat has more protein in it than any vegtable. Also I hat this animal rights ****, if its ok for one animal to eat another animal in the wild why can't we? After all we're animals too

[Loony Lunatic]

I am an omnivore, and I enjoy having meats at most of my meals. My family comes from a long line of meat cutters, so I've always been used to being around meat. However, I do object to eating meats that I know have been mistreated. Veal is one meat I will never eat. I prefer my meat to be range and grain fed, steroid and chemical free and well treated leading up to slaughter. Meat is a part of the human diet; we've evolved teeth for eating meat, our body requires proteins that meats provide efficiently. Give me a happy animal to eat, not one that's never seen the outside, and is given chemicals to grow faster.

[Elbereth]

I am a vegetarian and have been since I was nine, about six years. I have heard a lot of **** and lies from both sides of the issues. I do not think it is evil to eat meat, I think it is natural and, if consumed in the right amounts prepared the right ways, healthy. The reason I choose not to be one is because I personally cannot stand the thought of eating an animal. I am tired of people telling me that it's natural to eat meat whenever I say I'm a vegetarian. Thank you, I've been watching nature programs since before I could walk, like I couldn't figure that out for myself. I am ALWAYS respectful of those who eat meat, and I never criticize them. I wish that they could give me the courtesy of being respectful in return. I think that each should go with the life style that suits them.

My main problem with meat is the industry. There is a big difference between the time when people used to raise and hunt their own meat and now, when meat is mass-produced. The number one cause of the rain forest being cleared is to create grazing ground for beef cows. This is hardly natural. I'm tired of people who eat meat telling me I'm stupid because I do something that's not natural when they drink milk. Milk is not a natural part of the human diet past the age of about two years. Cow and goat milk is certainly not a natural part of the human diet.

It seems there has been some confusion on this about what a vegan is and why people go vegan. A vegan is somebody who doesn't eat any animal product, including milk and eggs. A lot of people don't think that dairy cows or laying hens have a bad life, but the reality is that many of them do. Cows are given horrible chemicals to make them produce more milk. Laying hens often spend entire lives cooped up, but worst of all, they often have their beaks and toes cut off to keep them from harming the people who try to take their eggs from them. I myself am not vegan, but have considered it before.

Another thing that peeves me is when meat eaters tell me that vegetables are living things too. It just seems to me that anybody can see the difference between a cow and a carrot, but maybe that's just me.

That being said, I have issues with a lot of the things vegetarians do too. I hate it when one of my vegetarian or vegan friends start telling people off for eating meat, or saying things like "don't you know where that came from?". Meat is a natural part of our diet, and they shouldn't expect people to be readily willing to give it up.

I eat no meat of any kind, including seafood, and have not had any health problems a result of my lifestyle. I think it's very healthy if you do the proper research and are careful to eat enough protein and iron. I respect those who are willing to make the decision to give up meat; it's a very admirable thing to do. However, to all you meat eaters out there, I want you to know that I do respect your right to eat meat. So the next time you hear that somebody doesn't or does eat meat, maybe you should think real hard about whether the appropriate response is to criticize or make fun of them.

[Quasi_EviL]

Originally posted by Elbereth (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=474189#post474189))
I eat no meat of any kind, including seafood, and have not had any health problems a result of my lifestyle. I think it's very healthy if you do the proper research and are careful to eat enough protein and iron.


I just have a question for all veggies out there. I haven't been a vegetarian for all that long...what do you usually do to get enough iron? My family keeps eating me out about that, and trying to get me to eat meat for the iron. :rolleyes: Protein is easier to find in other food products than iron, so any advice would be appreciated!

[Elbereth]

Leafy greens are often a very good source of iron. I normally don't have to worry about iron much because I happen to LOVE spinach and I eat it very frequently.

[Silvilocks]

I don't have a problem with eating meat as long as no suffering is inflicted on the animals at any point. For that reason, I now buy all my meat over the Internet, from farmers producing organic meat only, and who hold certificates from Animal Welfare for the conditions in which the animals are kept. Equally, if someone wants to be vegetarian or vegan, that's fine with me. The only thing I don't like in the UK, is that advice is often given out that suggests you can just stop eating meat. Obviously that isn't the case, and a lot of problems have occurred with people not making sure that their diet still includes sufficient protein, iron etc.

Someone earlier (sorry - I forget who) made the point about restaurants not being too good at serving vegetarian food. That has improved a lot in the UK in the last few years - except at Christmas. A friend of mine now flatly refuses to go to company dinners because she is so sick of finding that the only vegetarian option for a main course is macaroni cheese. Obviously someone at a high level in the UK has decided that that's what vegetarians eat. Oh, and if you're a vegan, just plan a social life that never includes eating out.

[lilhpwitch]

I don't think eating meat is a bad thing. Some people have to eat meat to live because their blood type prohibits them from being a Vegetarian. I use to eat meat all the time then I started being a Vegetarian about a month or so ago. It is definitly a whole different life style because the vitamins and minerals that you wouldn't get from meat have to be substuted with other food or vitamins. An the myth that Vegetarians only eat meat is false. There are a whole lot of other options like Veggie burgers :tu: :D.

[Quasi_EviL]

Thanks, Elbereth - I should have thought of good old Popeye and his spinach in the first place!

There are a whole lot of other options like Veggie burgers

It's true - and they're quite easy to get. Although, has anyone ever found a good veggie burger? :rolleyes: I have yet to!

[Aranel]

The best veggie burgers are the home-made ones!! :tu: I speak the truth! :agree: :agree:

[lilhpwitch]

Ok what happen to the little button you use to use to quote people? Anyways Theres Boca Burgers. I don't know if they are good or not I havn't had one. The Chicken garden burgers are really bad though.

[Hecate_Ceiestine]

I've been a veggie for 3 years and a vegan as the mood swings me. I'm this way be cause I refuse to participate in the pointless torture and slaughter of thousands of man-made (i.e. domesticated by humans from other wild species) creatures. I have no problem with the thought of killing animals to eat them as long as it's done in a humane way. Frankly, I don't see that kind of humanity in our (the USA's) meat industry, and I'm fairly sure such treatment of living creatures is global. If anyone's interested in reasons, recipies and general info on vegetarianism/veganism, I highly recomend GoVeg.com (http://www.goveg.com) they're a bit PETA for my tastes, but helpful none the less. And a quick word to all of you who do eat meat; I don't make fun of you or harrass you in any way for your beliefs, I expect the same respect, as, I'm sure, everyone here does.

[Hecate_Ceiestine]

I take a multi vitamin for all my iron and calcium needs, and I find most meat 'replacements' to be yuck. I prefer things like hommus, tofu and legumes to veggie burgers. I'd also like to comment that not all vegetarians are 'sickly' as someone so rudely commented. It's been clinically proven that less animal protien in your diet increases your lifespan, meaning you, if anyone, is the sickly one. Sorry, I don't remember who made that comment originally.

[Chagrin]

I've been a vegan for a few months now. I am a huge animal lover and when I took a look at www.goveg.com and www.milksucks.com I just couldn't bear to eat meat or drink milk or eat eggs. I'm aware that the sites are rather biased, but I also am aware that things that they describe DO happen at some factory farms.
I'm 15 and ate meat all the time before I became a vegan, but now it's just normal for me to not eat it. My mom and dad are supportive of my decision, and we make a trip to Whole Foods every other week to get me some of my usual things.
For veggie substitutes, it's really trial and error. You have to try a few brands before you say "Yuck! Veggie dogs are nasty!" I found some great "hamburger style" veggie burgers.. I forgot the brand. It's in the freezer, let me check.. Can't find it, it's probably toward the back.. and I'm afraid if I try to look for it, everything in the freezer will come tumbling out. Yes, we are a family that have 10 year old peas in the back of the freezer :-D XD . I think they are the brand "Morning Star" and it says on the box "Hamburger Style". I think the box is green... So all my fellow veggies, try them, I hope you like them.
I've tried veggie corndogs that I absolutely loved, veggie "beef style" taquitos (sp?), veggie chickenless nuggets, vegan enchiladas, veggie buritos, vegan butter (and I was surprised that it really does taste like butter), vegan mayonnaise, soy ice cream sandwiches, vegan (homemade!) cornbread and cake, vegan cookies (I think they're Uncle Eddie's Vegan Cookies or something...) and tons of other things that I really really like! So there are some good alternatives, it's just a matter of finding the right one.

Being a vegetarian or a vegan is very good for the body, but the transition into it can be rather stressful because you eat less because you haven't found the right foods yet. So yeah, you may have seen some rather gaunt looking veggies, but that just means they didn't do their research on vitamins.
I take iron supplements, so I have no problem there. The only thing with being a vegan (not vegetarian) is that you have to get Vitamin B12 shots every six months, that I know of. I haven't looked up much about that yet.

I'm not going to talk about canines and omnivores and the animal kingdom because once I get going, I can't stop. But let me just say that, yes, there are sites that say you can find a vegan diet for your pet, but it's just stupid to follow them.. well, in my opinion, but I've studied animals so I understand the digestive system and their needs. Cats are full on carnivores, they need the meat. Yes, you could make your cat vegetarian or vegan, but it would take much more than just soy products. A vegan or veggie diet, for your cat, that is not closely (and I mean CLOSELY) monitored and that isn't approved by a vet (yeah, they don't recommend it) can cause severe liver problems and liver failure, blindness, and eventually death. And my cat is sitting on my lap.... Cute little baby girl.

The rest of my family eats meat, so I accept people that eat meat, and I don't judge them or anything like that, as long as they don't judge me. But when a person starts saying that vegans are stupid, overly sensitive, anorexics (yes, I've had people on the internet call me that) I become very defensive. That's like saying every person who eats meat is a fat, ignorant, Texan cowboy idiot. It's not nice.

And I'm rambling, so let me just shut up here.

[Chasing_Wood]

I've been a vegetarian for about one and a half years now. It's mostly because I feel sorry for the animals. But one thing that annoys me is once in awhile when you find a vegetarian or vegan who goes around telling meat eaters how horrible it is they're eating meat. Luckily that doesn't happen much. I do eat dairy products though because I don't think I could bare to give those up, all of the foods I love most in the world contain milk.

[bellatrix669]

I'm not veggie now because of my family, but I will be when I go to college this fall. I have two questions for those who have gone veggie:
1. How did the transition affect you?
2. Is it more difficult to do this on a college student's budget and not starve or become nutritionally deprived?
Thanks

[Mistress Snivellus]

I became a vegetarian 5 years ago. I've never looked back. It was very strange how I came to my decision to be a vegetarian. I was never a big meat eater to begin with, and before I went all the way I was 10 years in the hole without eating a fleck of beef or pork. So that's that. But back to the strange part. After I had my son, I completely lost my taste for meat. It made me so tired, it literally made me feel nauseous and it gave me horrific heartburn.

I picked up a good book called Food For Life (not a vegetarian book, mind you) that showed you how to balance your meals and gave vege alternatives. I used this as a guide to balance out my meals. It was quite a change, but I felt so much better having made the switch.

I love animals but believe that they do serve a purpose for sustainance - my husband and son both eat meat. I do not like preachers on both sides of this spectrum. I've gotten into as many arguments with vegetarians as I have meat eaters over my views. The bottom line is, it's a personal choice and I don't think it's a horrible reflection on society or an individual if they choose to eat meat. I'd like to add, in accordance with Chagrin's above post, that the cattle/chicken/fish farming industries are negligent in their practices. It is a shame - better than the Upton Sinclair "Jungle" days, but not enough is done on the part of federal regulations to monitor some of the cruel, wasteful and environmentally damaging aspects that plague the meat industry as a whole. I do make an effort to serve my husband meats that are organically raised. Plus, according to my carnivourous husband, the meat tastes better anyway so it is a win-win situation in my family.

bellatrix669, to answer your questions:

1.) The physical transition was something I noticed after 2 days. My nausea cleared up, my heartburn diminished a substantial deal, and I had a lot more energy after I ate a meal. I no longer felt stuffed to the gills when I walked away from the table. Product-wise, the transition was rough. I didn't have many associates who were vegetarians, so everything was trial and error. Some vege products like Chagrin mentioned above cost a lot of money, depending on where you go. Where you shop makes the difference. Whole Foods Market is pretty expensive, but more and more regular grocery stores are stocking their shelves with alternative fare. I also have the luck of living near a Trader Joe's which has the best prices on alternative foods by far. Others, like tofu you get at the grocery store, can be used for 2-3 meals - and you're paying roughly $1.50 per package.

Basically, at first, it's a pain. You have to really start reading labels - a lot of soups are chicken broth based, snack crackers may even have animal based products in them. In restaurants, it's a bit of a trial getting a straight answer out of a waitress/waiter who doesn't know which sauces/soups/etc. have animal based products. In my family it took a while to get the food preparation down since my husband and son eat meat. I think out of any transitional phase, this was the most difficult for me to master. Now I am queen of not only doing dishes, but preparing both "sets" of meals in a timely manner. ;)

2.) I don't think it would be difficult to do this on a college budget. I find that tofu is cheaper than meat (the taste and texture though... I might add... is enough to turn people off.) Vege hot dogs, depending on where you shop, are roughly the same price as their meaty counterparts. It just depends. My family are on a strict budget - it's all a matter of where you shop and how much you eat.

[Quasi_EviL]

1. How did the transition affect you?

I never really noticed anything, to be honest. It's difficult and sometimes frustrating to find food that you can eat, and at times you just want a hamburger, but it passes. As long as you're a careful eater, the transition doesn't have to be hard.

2. Is it more difficult to do this on a college student's budget and not starve or become nutritionally deprived?

I would assume it isn't. Meat is expensive anyhow. It probably balances out. Things like canned chickpeas and lentils are incredibly cheap, and you can make a great lentil curry out of them, getting all the iron and protein and whatnot that you need.

[Alysan]

I've been a vegetarian since I was 12 (eep, almost 6 years now. Boy, do I feel old!)

1. How did the transition affect you? Hmm... not negatively, that's for sure! I had a lot more energy, and I think I just felt healthier, more alive, if that makes any sense. Occasionally I got a little frustrated with checking labels for gelatin, etc., but after a while you get the jist of it all!

2. Is it more difficult to do this on a college student's budget and not starve or become nutritionally deprived? I wouldn't know, as I haven't gone to college yet. Living at home though, with my family, it is hard for me to avoid meat products (I'm sure my willpower is insanely high because of this!). I've never been nutritionally deprived; it's generally well-known now that you can get all the nutrients you need from non-animal products. And, as the poster above me noted, meat is very expensive, compared to other, healthier options.

good luck with the vegetarian 'diet' in college!

I would assume it isn't. Meat is expensive anyhow. It probably balances out. Things like canned chickpeas and lentils are incredibly cheap, and you can make a great lentil curry out of them, getting all the iron and protein and whatnot that you need.

[Nickel]

As I'm not a vegetarian/vegan I feel this would be the appropriate place to ask this question:

While at work the other day someone calls to ask me what on our menu would be available to those who don't eat meat or any dairy products. (I assume this to be a vegan diet) Now the menu where I work is pretty big. (a quick example is that we have about 20 chicken items in addition to everything else).

All I was able to offer him was:
- Our Signiature Salad (sans the bleu cheese): which is field greens, strawberries, blueberries, walnuts, cucumbers, tomoatoes, crumbled bleu cheese.
- Pasta: only available with Marinara sauce for those who don't eat meat or dairy.

On to my question, which was provoked by the lack of choices in the menu for those that don't eat meat:
- As a vegetarian/vegan, do you find it harder to go out for meals than when you did eat meat (here I'm assuming that everyone made a concious choice to not eat meat and wasn't a vegetarian/vegan from the time they were a child)

I know that there are vegetarian restaurants available (some of which I have heard good things about from those that do eat meat) but, I was still wondering....

[lilhpwitch]

Nickel it does get frustrating at times when you go out to eat. Not so much at a nice restraunt where there is usually at least one or two idems on the menu to choose from. But when you go to a fast food place and you really don't want a salad is when it gets frustrating because that basically leaves you with the choice of salted or non salted french fries. Its just one of those things you get use to though.

[snitch14]

i'm not a vegetarian, but i do love animals, and if they are treated badly, i certainly dissaprove.

when vegetarians say that they can't eat animals, they are living things, i have something to point out. no offense to vegetarians, but what they eat is also living things. plants are certainly living, aren't they?

everything around us is living, and we can't avoid that. humans, by nature are omnivors and without animals, i dun think we'd survive. it's our way of life eating meat.

ok, again, no offense to vegetarians. u can eat what u like! i just wanted to say that.

[Angora]

It just seems to me that anybody can see the difference between a cow and a carrot, but maybe that's just me.


Elbereth, I think that may be my all time favorite answer to the "veggies are living" criticizm. :)

I gradually shifted to being a vegetatian over a few years. It was hard because I really liked the taste of meat, and every now ant then I would fall off the wagon and have a cheeseburger or something (BTW, Burger King Veggie Burgers are delicious).

I'm not Buddhist, but we agree about many things. So I have a certain respect for animal life that I would liken to Buddhism, even though it's not exactly the same thing - just to make it easier if people don't understand what I'm saying. I mean, I don't go around arbitrarily killing bugs or anything either, but that's a whole other discussion.

Aside from that, I just feel in the core of my being somewhere that there's something essentialy wrong in building an industry where you feed, and shelter, and care for something and teach it to trust you, all in the knowledge that you're going to kill it for profit.

I also think there's something a little bit flawed in the food chain / animals in the wild comparisons. By evolving to a stage where we can control all other animal life we have seperated ourselves from animal life. Lions don't have a right to vote because voting is something that we do because of the way we evolved. So why would we have a right to prey on other animals, just because a lion does?

To me, it almost seems like that's the other side of developing to a point where we can kill whatever we want whenever we want to - is developing to a point where we don't do it. And we have developed the ABILITY not to. It is possible to survive without doing it. In my lifetime alone we've made leaps and bounds in what's avialable as far as alternative diets.

So, to me, it's possible in some sort of abstract moral or spiritual way that the freakish power we weild over other species can be balanced out by a willingness not to use our power to the detriment of other species.

That's just how I feel about it. You're allowed to disagree.

[Aranel]

Beautifully put, Angora!
It amuses me how many times that question comes up in a day! I usually say something sarcastic like 'Vegetables are my arch-enemy, I have given up meat in order to focus entirely on killing and eating vegetables.'

[The Green Fool]

I've been a strict Vegan for 11 years (no animal products at all - no meat, dairy, honey, leather etc) and would never ever give up.

While it is true that we humans are born omnivores and are, therefore, able to eat meat, it is our ability to choose not to that seperates us from every other species on the planet.

[Metabee]

Okay, guys. I never was a vegetarian. I used to think it was pretty stupid. Bu then I had to actually go to an abatoir and it was one of the worst places I have ever been in. It was horrible. I have not eaten any meat since then, because I would ahve to pretend I didn't know where it came from, and that would be wrong. Since then, I've done some reading, because lets face it, most of us don;t know where our McDonalds come from. What follows is a little coarse so if you're sensitive you may not want to read this bit. I've put it in spoiler tag.


Basically, abbatoirs are efficient places where animals go to die. It's not pretty. But firstly you've got to get them there. Because of tighter legislation regarding abbatoirs, there's now less of them, so animals have to be transported larger distances. It is estimated that around 5-20% animals die in transit, due to overcrowding or stress.

The animals are herded into the slaughter house. This is where the process breaks into 2 different methods. So I'll do it separately:

Poultry
Basicaly, I've never seen a real life poultry abbatoir but I'm told they're very hygenic places. They look like any other factory, the only tell-tale sign being a line of fluttering birds moving slowly.

Basically, the chickens are attatched individually by their legs to a kind of conveyor belt, upside down. They are then carried towards a bath of electrified water to stun them. However, the problem is it's water so the chickens lift their heads. Hence this is estimated to be up to 30% uneffective. They are then lead to a kind of chopping machine. This is meant to sever the chicken's head. The only problem is it's mechanical, and so is not adjusted, but not all chickens are the same, so sometimes it will hit the beak, sometimes the breast, injuring them but not killing them. This is thought to happen in less than 1% of chickens. They are then lead on to a vat of boiling water, which they are dragged through to remove feathers. A very small proportion of chickens who have not been stunned or beheaded are literally boiled to death.

Lambs, Cows, Pigs and other stuff like horses, dogs and stuff in other countries
These are obviously bigger and so a different method is used. First they are herded into the abbatoir. This is not like herding cows normally as they can smell the blood and hear the cries of other cows, and so electric cattle rods are used, which deliver high voltage, low current shocks to the animal. These are most commonly applied to the testicles of the animal. They are then herded into a pen which leads into what is called the 'stall'. Cows are fed through one by one to the stall. Here a slaughterman waits. These animals are stunned by means of a bolt gun, which is applied to the side of their head. A bolt, about as thick as a pencil, is then fired through their skull. Things then come out of the rod and stir the brain of the animal around to ensure that it is stunned. Skilled slaughtermen only need one shot, but inexperienced ones may need 3 or more shots.

The animal is then attatched by it's legs to a chain and is then transported to the rest of the slaughter house, to be butchered ready for preparation.

-oOo-

Strict guidelines exist for animal's welfare but unfortuanately these are sometimes flouted. Stories I have heard are of slaughtermen riding the animals around the abbatoir on animals, and of animals not being stunned as slaughtermen are often paid on number killed, and so skipping stunning saves time.

Hope that you didn't find that too disturbing. If you agree, want more info or disagree, PM me or reply on this thread.

Facts:

- We eat over ten times the amount of meat per person than in 1950!

- Analysts suggest that by 2050 most of the world will probably be veggie - hooray!



I say the Analysts are @$$holes. Meat is a natural part of humanity, and the only way we could become healthy vegetarians is to actually evolve.

And no, that wasn't to disturbing. My dad works at a slaughter house, he does the feather plucking. He showed me how they slughter them, but not actually being slaughtered. I hope one day I get to see him slaughter them.

[Sirius03]

Actually eating meat is allright because in the Quran it mentions somwthing about sacrificicing a sheep for someone.

[SevSnapeisMine]

In protest of the way animals are treated so often in farms, I became vegetarian. It also has to with other things; personal health, the enviornment, personal growth, etc. But it's not just the fact that the animals die. It's how they live BEFORE they die. I have read detailed, graphic accounts of what happens to them, and NO creature deserves that kind of life.

[PhoenixUK]

I say the Analysts are @$$holes. Meat is a natural part of humanity, and the only way we could become healthy vegetarians is to actually evolve.

And no, that wasn't to disturbing. My dad works at a slaughter house, he does the feather plucking. He showed me how they slughter them, but not actually being slaughtered. I hope one day I get to see him slaughter them.

You know who really annoys me? People who are too bloody-minded to consider that there may be people who have valid opinions other than their own point of view.

Vegetarianism is as healthly, if not healthier then a 'normal' diet, if you get the right balance, that's why vegetarians have a longer life expectancy by about 4 years.

Sorry, mods, but this post really annoyed me.

[Kelpie]

I became vegetarian recently, but then I moved in with my dad and he pretty much forced me to eat meat for a while, but as soon as I move out, I'm returning to vegetarianism. Basically, I've never been big meat eater and ethically, I'm set against the slaughter of animals for consumption or clothing. I'm not one to impose my views on others they can eat what they want, but I personally would rather not eat another creature. I just think that the conditions most animals are kept in are inhumane - these are sentient creatures! I don't see how vegetarianism is unhealthy. Tofu is actually full of protein! I was forced to live across the road from a Chicken Slaughter House in my first year at university, and trust me, the smell in summer is enough to put anyone off meat. I really don't know how anyone can stomach working in those places for that reason alone.

[CoCaColaIsMyBud04]

I'm 13 and I'm a vegetarian. I've been one for two years now.

It's not so much for animal rights reason, although I do dissapprove with the way that some companies kill their animals. I haven't been a huge fan of meat or seafood - the only thing I really liked was chicken but it was easy to give that up. When I would eat meat I would get very sick from it, so my doctor thinks it's better if I was a vegetarian. My mom is a vegetarian, and ironically, my dad is on the Akin's diet. So we usually have a very assorted dinner.

I say let people have their opinion on what they want to eat. People have different beliefs and different body make-ups. As long as you are happy. :)

[Weatherby]

A reminder to please keep things friendly in here. :)
Swearing doesn't help.

I agree with CoCaColaIsMyBud04.
I'm a vegetarian but I wouldn't force the same lifestyle on others.

Animal cruelty is a different issue.
To quote the smiths - "It's a death for no reason and a death with no reason is murder..."

[Melanie]

Here (http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebfile/news/food/vegan.html) is an interesting article I found about the number of animals killed during grain harvesting.

Central to his argument is the unseen mortality that accompanies the production of row crops and grains, staples of a vegan diet, in agricultural systems large enough to sustain the human population.

"Over the years that I have been studying animal rights theories, I have never found anyone who has considered the deaths of - or, the 'harm' to - animals of the field," Davis said. "This, it seems to me, is a serious omission."

Consequently, Davis asks what is the morally relevant difference between the field mouse and the cow that makes it okay to kill one but not the other so that humans may eat.

Few studies document the losses of rabbits, mice, pheasants, snakes and other field animals in planting and harvesting crops. Said one researcher: "Because most of these animals have been seen as expendable, or not seen at all, few scientific studies have been done measuring agriculture's effects on their populations."

Davis has found evidence that suggests that the unseen losses of field animals are very high. One study documented that a single operation, mowing alfalfa, caused a 50 percent reduction in the gray-tailed vole population. Mortality rates increase with every pass of the tractor to plow, plant, and harvest. Additions of herbicides and pesticides cause additional harm to animals of the field.

Personally, I try to eat organic whenever possible just because I don't want the toxins in my system that we add to nearly all of our food. I was disgusted to find that most of the whole-wheat bread in the supermarket is made with partially-hydrogenated oils...And when you choose vegetables, grains, and meats that were produced/raised organically, you have a pretty good chance of getting a product that has no additives, and more than likely the animals were treated humanely.
I don't eat meat or animal products often simply because, for me, it's easier to grab a banana than to cook a chicken breast. Mostly a laziness factor on my part...so I try to drink a protein shake here and there, eat veggies and beans with high protein, etc.

I'm neutral as to the moral aspect of it. I refrain from eating meat and/or animal products because I want to be healthy. Cheese is loaded with saturated fat, red meat will give you cancer, and poultry has more cholesterol than red meat. You just can't win, so I eat in moderation.

And apparently you can't really win on the moral grounds either, because both diets cause unnecessary deaths.

[WhiteSlash]

I've been trying to be a vegetarian for some time now but it isn't working out to well. I love soy meat, so I eat veggie burgers a lot and I drink soy milk. It's just quite hard. I've wanted to go veggie after I watched an episode of Fear Factor. The had to eat duck emberios...with feathers and all. It was then I knew. Some day I'll get there...

[Kelpie]

Don't worry. I'm not a very good vegetarian either. Slightest pressure from my father and I caved. I was vegetarian for a whole year when I was 6. That really annoyed my folks. Especially as my older brothers were mean and kept telling me things had meat in them (that didn't) so there was hardly anything I would eat. Then Christmas came and I really wanted turkey, so I gave in.

[Chrysalis]

I'm a veggie since I was born actually. My parents are vegetarian. I have tried meat but I do not like the taste. To non-veggies who are trying to be vegetarians: it doesn't really help if you just replace all the meat with soy. You need an entirely different balance in your diet. At home we eat a lot of rice and beans and lots of vegetables basically. I think consuming meat on a large scale(like in western countries) contributes to world hunger, because all the grain that can be used to feed the poor is instead fed to cattle which in turn are consumed in western countries.

[Tirwen Lupin]

I'm a vegetarian, and have been so pretty much since I was born. In my opinion, the way many farms keep their animals is repulsive and inhumane. The people seem to think that animals are machines, not living creatures as peopele themselves are. The argument that eating meat is "natural" is correct except for one thing: It would be natural if we were wild animals like our prehistoric ancestors; we would need to kill to survive. But in the modern world, we can make a conscious choice not to take life. Today we can live normally healthily without eating meat, letting our fellow creatures live as they were meant to be.
But I'm not trying to force a vegetrian lifestyle onto anyone.

[Aranel]

I've posted here before, but here I go again...

I don't eat meat, and that includes ALL meat, fish chicken etc... What makes me laugh is when I say:
"Oh, I'm vegetarian"
They say: "So, you eat chicken and fish?"
"No, I'm vegetarian"
"OH! You're Vegan"
"No, I'm vegetarian"
Some people don't understand that chicken and fish are meat!!

Anyway, my reasoning behind me being vegetarian and humane reasons etc. I won't go into it because it seems to have been already covered. But I basically find Weatherby's quote from the smiths, very valid for my point of view...

But the thing I hate about the whole situation is that I am constantly having to explain why I don't eat meat to everyone. I don't question anyone every time I see them eating a piece of meat, but it seems that if I eat Tofu or some other 'vegetarian food' or some food that people associate with vegetarians, then I have to explain myself...
But basically, I've dumbed my argument down to something that people can't argue back against (well no one has as yet). I use this when all other explainations fail to penetrate their brain..
"Pick a food that absolutely despise and refuse to eat"
"Ok.... peas."
"Alrighty, Peas to you is like meat to me, I hate it and therefore I refuse to eat it. Personal choice buddy. Basic enough for you?"

All is done... they usually shake their head and mutter something, but you get that...

[Jenni The Hurja]

I've always hated meat. When I was 12, my mom finally let me become a vegetarian, because I had lost so much weight not eating the meat I was 'forced' to eat. That's why the most annoying question I get asked is, 'Don't you just crave meat, it tastes so good'. The answer is no, it makes me puke.

Later on I also found my vegetarism to be a good choice because of humane reasons as well. I'm not a vegan, 'cause I think I wouldn't be able to monitor my diet well enough (to get all the vitamins etc.). But I try to choose the most expensive eggs that are produced in the best conditions possible (the conditions are still bad, I know). I don't eat boiled eggs nor omelettes 'cause I hate the taste of eggs as well. Isn't eating eggs like eating menorrhea? But milk - I love.

So I think you could say that I'm finicky when it comes to meat. But just meat, nothing else. I hate it when my meat-eater friends accuse me of being choosy when all they eat is meat in different forms, potatoes and carrots (if any vegetables at all). When they see something out of the ordinary on my plate, they go, 'Eww, how can you eat that, it looks disgusting'. 'Well there's some cows guts on your plate', I usually answer.

I guess an ideal diet would consist lots of different kinds of vegetables and a little meat (fish preferably?). I consider my diet closer to that than about 90% of the diets of my fellow citizens. Then again, now that it's fashionable to be a vegetarian among young girls, I know many vegetarians who eat nothing but potatoes and carrots.


Some people don't understand that chicken and fish are meat!!

That's so true! Just the other day, when I was at a local market, I saw some delicious-looking burritos on the counter (is that what you call it?) As I approached, I noticed there weren't any vegetarian ones. Our discussion:
Me: 'Oh, you don't have any vegetarian burritos?'
The salesman: 'Well, the fish and shrimp burritos are the same thing, right?'

Imagine I've always thought that fish is part of fauna, not flora.

I personally have no problem with people eating meat in general, but I hate it that they don't care what kind of lives the slaughter animals have in our modern times. Well actually they do care, many think it's disgusting how they're treated, but then they just don't think about it and go eat at McDonalds. I think everyone who wants to eat meat should hunt it themselves.

Another thing I find irritating about meat-eaters is that they often say it's terrible to eat dogs and horses but not cows and pigs. The hipocrisy.

[miri]

I'm a vegetarian, and my response to people telling me that carrots have lives too shuts them up no problem: I don't eat carrots. :lol:

I eat peppers, onions, green beans, bean sprouts, chick peas in the form of hummous, seeds, soya products, tvp products, eggs, dairy products, rice, pasta, potatoes, bread, chocolate, crisps, biscuits, cake...

I first my first term at Uni in my first year living in a house with 5 girls, all meat-eaters. All 5 of them who would feel they hadn't eaten properly if they hadn't had meat that day and were very vocal about this. After 4 weeks, I just stopped eating in front of them for a week, and I don't think I ate anything more substantial than crisps in front of them for the rest of the time I was there. They just made me feel that uncomfortable.

[dink]

I'm vegetarian now, but I was vegan for 3 years - due to a hyperactive conscience. 2 years ago, though, I realised that I hadn't been out for a meal (I know there are chefs capable of making a vegan meal somewhere in the world, but there aren't any here) in more than 20 months. I was a nightmare for my friends when I went to visit them. I hadn't eaten birthday cake when my dad turned 50. I hadn't enjoyed a glass of wine. I missed cheese. And, anyway, it was impossible to be truly vegan. Either I bought organically-grown vegetables (which had probably been grown in ground made fertile by animal manure) or I bought chemical-covered vegetables (which had probably been sprayed with chemicals which had been tested on animals). I couldn't take photographs. Shoes were expensive (because the cheap fake-leather ones were probably stuck together with animal-based glue). And it turns out that they're cutting down the rainforest now to plant soya-beans (to satisfy our demands for "more tofu!") rather than for cattle-grazing.

Anyway, I'm vegetarian now. I know that by using dairy products I am contributing to the beef industry. And I don't entirely trust the "free range" on my egg-boxes. It's a compromise. But it means that I can continue to function within society - so that's where I'm at, these days.

[Chrysalis]

I've posted here before, but here I go again...

I don't eat meat, and that includes ALL meat, fish chicken etc... What makes me laugh is when I say:
"Oh, I'm vegetarian"
They say: "So, you eat chicken and fish?"
"No, I'm vegetarian"
"OH! You're Vegan"
"No, I'm vegetarian"
Some people don't understand that chicken and fish are meat!!



I second that. Also I just can't imagine how people can eat snails or octopi or snakes. Maybe I'm being stupid, but I think it's gross.

[Tirwen Lupin]

I second that. Also I just can't imagine how people can eat snails or octopi or snakes. Maybe I'm being stupid, but I think it's gross.
And I'll third it. Fish and chicken are as much animals as horses, dogs, whales, beavers... I wonder a lot about why peopel started thinking that fish and chicken aren't meat; it makes no sense to me.
I think eating snails and so on is so gross too! I feel sick just thinking about it...sorry, maybe I'm just weird. And I heard that oysters sometimes are eaten live! :no:

[miri]

I gave up on finding non-leather shoes that didn't hurt my feet, after 3 years of searching. I didn't throw away my old ones, so wore the same pair of trainers for 4 years until my mum threw them away because they were making me limp (that was quite a new thing, and it had unnerved me a bit, but I only noticed it going up hills and it wasn't painful). I'm not happy about it, but as cattle aren't slaughtered for their hides, I'm ok with it. I am slightly peeved that, after less than a year (maybe 10, 11 months?) the upper is separating from the sole, and these were supposedly reasonably good quality ones (Clarks).

[dink]

Miri - I'm fairly sure that cattle are slaughtered for their hides. Leather is just as valuable a commodity as beef or bone. It's not just some useful extra way of making a little money out of the cow.

I found a great company on the internet which specializes in vegan footwear - incredibly expensive but very good. I saved up for 2 years and got myself some knee-high boots. All my other shoes are my sister's cast-offs (to my mother's horror :)).

What I still have a problem with is the dairy industry, and the way it has to support the beef industry. We wouldn't be able to drink the milk if the calves weren't removed from the dairy cows. And of course the calves end up either as veal or as beef or as glue or as stock or as animal feed or as beef. My fondness for cheese is my undoing!

[Angora]

I have a pair of leather boots from seven years ago before I swore off leather. Otherwise all of my shoes are made of something else (usually canvas). I actually have some lovely Ralph Lauren polo shoes that I like. I would call them a tennis shoe, but I guess polo sounds more sophistocated.

I've had trouble finding pleather shoes (but not pleather coats and bags, go figure) so my dressy shoes usually end up being made of strange things.

As far as making sure that nothing I have is made with animal products, you can only do what you can do. It's like sweatshops, you can't investigate every product you buy to make sure, or else you'd have to make a careeer out of it. Besides, once the major industry gets weeded out (here's hoping) the littler ones will follow and there will be more alternative products.

[Tirwen Lupin]

I'm a vegetarian, and my response to people telling me that carrots have lives too shuts them up no problem: I don't eat carrots.
That remided me... we once knew this lady who was vegetarian (not vegan). She told us about a time she went to dinner at the house of on of her friends (who was not a vegetarian). So she got there, and told her friend that she didn't eat meat, and you know what the friend then served as dinner? Raw tomatoes, raw carrots, and a big raw cabbage. :lol:

Anyway, when it comes to things (not food) that aren't made from animals, that can get hard. Most of my clothes aren't, but I have trouble with finding shoes. I hope companies will come up with other alternatives... that hopefully won't look too funny.

[Larna]

I'm a vegetarian; I've been one for what, a year and a half now I suppose. Guilty conscience after refusing to dissect a frog kept pulling at me til I gave in... I felt like a hypocrite to be against animal dissection and then to go home and eat a cow. Now I try to avoid leather whenever possible, but I am not Vegan.

The thing that irks me most is when people... well, 'without morals' for lack of a better phrase (I know they do have morals) attack me for what I do. I've gotten relentless comments about eating french fries (from a guy who is under the impression that beef fat is the only thing to cook them in) and film (I'm a photographer). I stand proud in what I believe in, and I like to think that we as vegetarians do make a difference. More meat is consumed today than ever; people try to use the Biblical sacrifices against me, to which I have two replies:

1. The feeding of the 5000 would probably take at least 3 times the amount of fish if it happened today, and...

2. If God told me to eat meat, then I'd grab a fork and dig in.

I think the problem lies in our (as humans) dependance on meat. People eat meat in large quantities daily, and that's just not necessary.

[strwznbrry]

Alright, I read this article a couple years ago and I remembered it while reading this thread which I started reading because of the Meat (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=24247) thread.

I got the article from Discover magazine, its not the whole article but just the parts I thought would go along with the subject of how people don't eat meat because it comes from cows and they don't believe in using any cow parts. I know it's long but its pretty interesting.

I was just wondering what you all thought of the article and how it pertains to your views on vegetarianism.

Cow Parts

...Where does it all go?The answer is everywhere.

Imagine that somehow you were obliged to reconstruct a Holstein or an Angus from all its commercially disseminated parts, no matter how small, reclaiming them from all of their uses, no matter how diverse, until you succeeded in reintegrating and revivifying an animal that might, as in a film running backward, walk rump-first out of the slaughterhouse, back up the ramp to the stock truck, and back to the feedlot or the dairy barn. You might begin by gathering all the cuts of meat that come from a cow, but that would give you only a composite, rather like the diagram of the principal steaks and roasts you often find in cookbooks. There is the leather, of course, the hide. But that would still leave you with an extraordinarily incomplete beast.

To reconstruct the complete cow, you would need to gather countless products from an astonishing array of industries. Some are still close to agriculture— processed animal feed and pet food as well as garden supplies such as blood and bonemeal. But other products have no apparent connection with farming, such as jet engine lubricants and brake fluid from bovine fatty acids, which are derived from tallow, which is itself produced from fat and bone...

...The ubiquity of cow by-products in the modern world is a direct consequence of the ubiquity of bovines themselves. In a way, it's the chicken-and-egg— or rather the cow-and-gelatin-capsule— problem. The enormous scale of the cattle industry creates a colossal amount of by-products. But the international market in proteins, fats, and oils also helps increase the scale of cattle raising. As the FDA bluntly put it when describing how vaccines are made, "Cow components are often used simply because cows are very large animals, and thus much material is available." Without cows as a source of proteins and fats and fatty acids, further sources would have to be found. Whether those sources would leave us better or worse off, ecologically and economically, is hard to judge...

...But the world of bovine by-products is truly the world as a whole. In Shandong province, China, an oleochemical firm using cow parts creates a wide variety of fatty acids, amines, and quaternary ammonium salts, which are used as asphalt emulsifiers, antistatic agents, wetting agents, corrosion inhibitors, and fabric softeners. The firm also makes glycerin, which has uncountable applications, including, as the firm's Web site delicately puts it, the "war industry." In Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia, one company makes bovine trypsin, which is used for tissue culturing, as well as soluble collagen from fetal calfskin, used also in medicine and cosmetics. The company makes dried bile powder, which turns up "in soap and shampoo production, bacteriology, and printing houses."

The global penetration of cow parts is only likely to increase. As Lester Brown notes in State of the World 2001, the "innate hunger for animal protein, which manifests itself in every society when incomes begin to rise, has lifted the world demand for meat each year for 40 consecutive years." Brown calls this "one of the most predictable trends in the global economy," a trend whose inevitable by-product is by-products.

In short, cow is almost everywhere, in almost everything, in some form or another— but only recently. Until the latter half of the 20th century, the only major uses for beef by-products were leather and soap and candles. But given an extraordinary spike in beef consumption after World War II, as well as a parallel explosion in industrial diversity, cows were suddenly fractionated right down to the molecular level. Indeed, it's possible to argue that without the post-World War II explosion in industrial diversity, the size of the cattle population in this country could never have grown as large as it has. When people talk about industrial farming, they usually refer to the often deplorable conditions in which livestock is raised these days, usually confined in close quarters, often indoors. But the capacity to turn a cow into fabric softener is a kind of industrial farming as well, a kind we all participate in, whether we know it or not, whether we choose it or not.


http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif
Where's the beef?
Every last scrap of cow gets used somewhere
http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif
B L O O D

Cell culture laboratories
Bovine serum albumin provides a wide variety of macromolecular proteins, low-molecular-weight nutrients, carrier proteins for water-insoluble components, and other compounds necessary for in vitro growth of cells, such as hormones and attachment factors. Serum adds buffering capacity to the medium and binds or neutralizes toxic components in the growth milieu.

Home and industrial uses
Plywood adhesives, fertilizer, foam fire extinguisher, chemical fixer for dyes
http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif
T A L L O W S
(fat derived from meat, bone, hooves, and horns)

Edible tallow
Used in shortening for baked goods and in combination with vegetable oils for frying foods. Also used in chewing gum

Inedible fats and oils
Various industrial tallows: Top White Tallow, All-Beef Packer Tallow, Extra Fancy Tallow, Fancy Tallow, Bleachable Fancy Tallow, Prime Tallow,Special Tallow, No. 2 Tallow, A Tallow, Choice White Grease, Yellow Grease
http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif http://www.discover.com/images/issues/aug-01/clrspace.gif
F A T T Y A C I D S
(derived from tallows)

General uses
Plastics, tires, candles, crayons, cosmetics, lubricants, soaps, fabric softeners, asphalt emulsifiers, synthetic rubber, linoleum (metallic stearate), PVC (calcium stearate), jet engine lubricants, carrier for pesticides and herbicides, wetting agents, dispersing agents, defoamers, solubilizers, viscosity modifiers

Oleic acid -> pelargonic acid -> synthetic motor oil
Oleic acid -> fed into gel cultures to produce antibiotics
Azelaic acid -> high-performance coatings for planes and cars, food packaging, fishing line, acne medication, furniture
Stearic acid-> aluminum tristearate -> cosmetic gels, pharmaceutical additives, grease additives, toner adjuvants, antifoam agents, explosive additives, waterproofing agents

Fatty acid amides
Lubricants in industrial processes

Fatty acid amines
Rubber, textiles, ore floatation, corrosion inhibitors,metalworking lubricants

Fatty acid esters
Emulsifiers, coating agents, textile sizers, lubricants, plasticizers, defoaming agents, lithium-based greases, textile lubricants, rolling and cutting oils, metal-machining lubricants

Fatty alcohols
Sodium alkyl sulfates, ultimately made into detergents
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G L Y C E R I N
(derived from tallows)

Glycerin derivatives
A wide range of pharmaceuticals including cough syrups and lozenges, tranquilizers, eyewashes, contraceptive jellies and creams, ear drops, poison ivy solutions, solvent for digitalis and intramuscular injection, sclerosing solutions for treatment of varicose veins and hemorrhoids, suppositories, gel capsules

Glycerol
Solvent, sweetener, dynamite, cosmetics, liquid soaps, candy, liqueurs, inks, lubricants, antifreeze mixtures, culture nutrients for antibiotics

Glycerin mist
Aftershave preparations, shaving cream, toilet soap, toothpaste, sunscreens and sunblocks, dental floss, bath salts, bubble baths, body lotions, cleansing creams, moisturizing creams, external analgesics and counterirritants, shampoos, hair coloring preparations (bleaches, dyes, rinses, tints), hair dressings (brilliantines, creams, pomades), hair mousse, hair and scalp conditioners, hairspray, topical antibiotic preparations, hemorrhoidal preparations, pharmaceuticals for veterinary use, liquid household hard-surface cleaners, laundry aids (ironing and dry-cleaning spotting solutions), agricultural chemicals, automobile body polish and cleaners
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C O L L A G E N
(derived from connective tissues and beef skins)

Hemostats, vascular sealants, tissue sealants, orthopedic implant coatings, vascular implant coatings, artificial skin, bone graft substitutes, corneal shields, injectable collagen for plastic surgery, injectable collagen for incontinence treatment, meat casings, food additives, artificial dura maters, dental implants, wound dressings, antiadhesion barriers, platelet analyzer reagents, research reagents, antibiotic wound dressing, lacrimal plugs
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G E L A T I N
(derived from collagen)

Food uses
Powdered gelatin, leaf gelatin, gelatin hydrolysate, instant gelatin, jellies, confectionery (jelly beans, jelly babies, gums, pastilles), aerated confectionery (marshmallows, meringues, nougats, fruit chews), caramels, sugarcoated almonds, desserts and dairy products (Bavarian creams, mousses, piecrusts, margarines, dietetic products, yogurts, ice creams and sorbets), clarification of wines (fining agent), decorations (garnishes, galantines, foie gras, eggs in jelly), gel reinforcement for cooked meats to improve slicing, gels for the liquor exuded from hams during cooking, gels to preserve pâtés, dietetic products (dietary breads, biscuits, powdered soups)

Cosmetics
Protective creams, beauty masks, lotions, shampoo basesHealth-pharmaceutical productsSoft capsules, hard-shell two-piece capsules, hemostatic sponges, biological adhesives, blood serum, binder in pills and suppositories

Industrial uses
Binder for flammable substances in matches, binder to improve "crispness" of banknotes, coating for microparticles of self-copying papers,glues for paper and cardboard cartons, bookbinding glue, electrolyticsurface treatment of metals

Photographic uses
Emulsion gelatin, dispersion gelatin, protective-layer gelatin, backing gelatin, baryta gelatin, modified gelatin
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O R G A N S A N D G L A N D S

Lungs: heparin (blood thinner), pet food

Heart: pericardium patches

Trachea: chondroitin sulfate (arthritis treatment)

Tendons: elastin, peptone

Gall: cleaning agent for leather, paints and dyes

Intestines: glycosaminoglycans (for cartilage and joint treatment), sutures, musical strings, racquet strings

Liver: catalase, used in contact-lens care products

Pancreas: insulin, chromotrypsin, glucagons

Placenta: glycosaminoglycans, alkaline phosphatases, fetal calf serum

Testicles: hyaluronidase (cartilage and joint treatment) Umbilical cord: hyaluronic acid

Uterus: glycosaminoglycans

Spinal cord: pharmaceuticals, laboratory reagents, source of neural lipids and cholesterol

Bile: bile acids used to make industrial detergents, bilirubin to measure liver function

Nasal septum: chondroitin sulfate

Nasal mucosa: heparin

Bone: charcoal ash (for refining products such as sugar), ceramics, cleaning and polishing compounds, bone and dental implants

[OrbitingElle]

I'd like to hear why you refuse milk. I'm a vegetarian but not a vegan.

The literature I've read said that the reason cows continue to produce milk is from almost constantly being pregnant. The resulting calves are often shoved in crates until they get slaughtered for veal.

I think Silk brand soy milk tastes good enough that it doesn't bother me to drink that instead. But if you're thinking of going vegan, make sure you want to stay that way. The longer you go without milk, the more lactose intolerant you'll become if you try to start up again.

[Angora]

I've been drinking "So Good" soy milk lately. It has kind of that weird barley taste that soy drinks have, but it's supposed to be really good for you, so I'm trying it out. Plus, the first time I had it, it was a free sample in a store and I was really thirsty, so I thought it tasted a lot more refreshing than it does. Plus they let me drink it out of a shot glass, and shot glasses? Fun.

I was just wondering what you all thought of the article and how it pertains to your views on vegetarianism.

I'd have to go back to what I said eariler, which is, you can only do what you can do. As vegetarianism rises (slowly, and all) the side-industries will gradually get fixed-up too. It definitely bothers me, don't get me wrong, but I accept that it's not something you can solve in a day or anything. On a personal level, my strategy, as I think I've already intimated, tends to be to eliminate one thing at a time from my personal use rather than everything at once. I don't know if that makes me a bad person, but that's the way I'm going about it.

[totalmuggle]

im a vegan

[totalmuggle]

Whoa... *looks around all suspicious* I was 11 too, seems someone has made this into a plot, we mus tget to the bottom of this...

EDIT: well, well, well, it seems this goes for Weatherby as well.

this is crepy.i was 11 to!

[RubberSoul]

Some people don't understand that chicken and fish are meat!!
I'll (what is it, four, now?) fourth that! When I was at McDonald's a few weeks ago with my mom, she asked the cashier if they have anything vegetarian. He said they have wraps, to which I asked if there was chicken in them. Grinning happily, he informed me that, yes, they did. Well, that's not vegetarian isn't it? There's a common misconception that being a vegetarian just means not eating red meat. That's called semi-vegetarianism, I think.

I became a vegetarian after a guest speaker from PETA came to my school and showed us a video of animal slaughterhouses. I couldn't tolerate that anyone could treat animals in that way.

[Azimuth]

I don't really understand why people become vegetarians. I guess it's to satisfy themselves and to eradicate their own guilt - because not eating meat is going to make absolutely no difference whatsoever to any animal. It's naive to think that by refusing to eat meat will save lives. But feeling guilty while eating meat is irrational anyway - other animals eat meat. We are animals. So what's the problem? And, plants are living creatures too. Why is it more okay to eat vegetation than to eat meat?

Not meaning to cause offence to anyone who is a vegetarian of course; their intentions are correct - it's just that I don't think that refusing to eat meat is the right way to go about putting a stop to animal cruelty.

[Tane]

And, plants are living creatures too. Why is it more okay to eat vegetation than to eat meat?

That is totally correct as there have been studies done on plants and they do sense and feel pain. That is why certain plants have developed protection against those that try and eat them. The bitter tastes of a plant or the toxins in a plants leaf, stem or flower are there for a reason and that is to stay alive. There is no way I would give up my mean or vegetation for that matter because it is the best way of gaining the nutrients needed for me to stay healthy.

There is nothing better than a barbeque at summer time.

[OrbitingElle]

I don't really understand why people become vegetarians. I guess it's to satisfy themselves and to eradicate their own guilt - because not eating meat is going to make absolutely no difference whatsoever to any animal. It's naive to think that by refusing to eat meat will save lives.

If humans were being slaughtered and served up at fast food restaurants, would you eat them and justify it by shrugging your shoulders and saying, "It's naive to think I can save a life!"

You're the naive one if you don't think it makes a difference. You probably won't vote when you grow up either because your one tiny voice couldn't possibly mean anything...




And, plants are living creatures too. Why is it more okay to eat vegetation than to eat meat?

This is absolutely the silliest argument I've ever heard. Anyone using the "plants are alive, so they're the same as animals" line is kidding themselves. You're just making yourself sound ignorant.

If indeed it has been shown that plants feel pain, I'd like some facts from a reliable source, please.

[Masterfroggy]

Please do not attack the poster, even if his/her opinions differ from yours (that is how threads get closed) feel free to disagree with what he/she said but do so in a polite way.

This is all meant to be fun and a learning experience (gaining knowledge from a diverse group of people)

As for plants and "pain"

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/08/980806090010.htm

[Jenni The Hurja]

I don't really understand why people become vegetarians.
Personally, I became a vegetarian because all meat tastes like ****. (As for the rest of your post, :nc: .)

[swishandflick]

I rely way too much on meat to become a vegetarian. It doesn't really make a difference to me about the science of things, I just enjoy the taste of meat. My family, my culture is very reliant on meat (ever seen 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding?') and I would have a hard time sitting with my family for a meal if I chose to stop eating it.

I threw a party over the summer, and most of the food was meat though I did have meat-free side dishes ect. Anyways, three of my friends are vegetarians and one of them told me "Why did you serve meat if you know we are vegetarians?". However, my other two friends simply ate what they could. Anyways, the point is that this whole morally superior attitude depends on the individual and not all vegetarians have the same attitudes.

[JofpGallagher]

Personally, I became a vegetarian because all meat tastes like ****. (As for the rest of your post, :nc: .)

I believe it is unintentionally, but you post can be interpreted as Azimuth's post tastes to whatever the flavor you find on meats. Please be carefully when debating other members point of views.

[Picko]

If humans were being slaughtered and served up at fast food restaurants, would you eat them and justify it by shrugging your shoulders and saying, "It's naive to think I can save a life!"

I would love an explaination as to why some people are of the deluded belief that they are in some way above animals. In case none of you have realised we are animals, with strengths and weaknesses just like animals. Anyone who isn't a vegetarian because they merely don't like the taste of meat are truly elitest and ignorant. How can you possibly justify any other reason unless you admit that you are of the belief that you are better than another entity.

If one wishes to truly claim that killing animals in bad and that there's justification for not eating meat then surely you'd be roaming the forests of the world stopping other animals from killing animals and in the process destroying wild life at a far greater rate than having humans eat meat which is perfectly justifiable. If you are not - and none of you are - then surely you are merely looking after self interest and have no great interest in the safety of other species of animal in which case I have to laugh at your naivety. None of you are saving lives merely looking after your own self-interests and saving face which is highly deplorable.

For the record eating meat is quite natural and justified, if we didn't living standards would naturally decrease due in turn to the undeniable and proven fact that animals in the general sense multiply at a far greater rate than humans can. Would any of you vegetarians be willing to take a significant drop in living conditions for your cause? If not then once again I have to question whether your motives are true or you are just joining a laughably uneducated bandwagon.

It is quite fine to have your own beliefs on what is right and wrong but don't shove them down others throats. Not eating meat is highly justified and I have no great problem with others differing in the way they wish to lead their lives. However as it stands your cause or beliefs has not developed beyond a point where trying to shove them down peoples throats doesn't make you look like a fool. There is - and I emphasise this - no right or wrong stance, and I don't see how anyone could possibly disagree with this. However none of you are doing a great service to humanity in any way, shape or form and it's important to remember that :)

[OrbitingElle]

WORLD HUNGER
We feed so much grain to animals in order to fatten them up for consumption that if we all became vegetarians, we could produce enough food to feed the entire world. In the U.S., animals are fed more than 80 percent of the corn we grow and more than 95 percent of the oats. The world's cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth.

We could feed EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the whole world. You've seen the commercials on tv asking for you to sponsor a starving child? There wouldn't be any starving chidren if we all adopted a vegetarian diet.


HEALTH
Both the U.S. Department of Agriculture and the American Dietetic Association have endorsed vegetarian diets. Studies have also shown that vegetarians have stronger immune systems than meat-eaters and that meat-eaters are almost twice as likely to die of heart disease, 60 percent more likely to die of cancer, and 30 percent more likely to die of other diseases. The consumption of meat and dairy products has been conclusively linked with diabetes, arthritis, osteoporosis, clogged arteries, obesity, asthma, and impotence.


THE PROTEIN MYTH
Too much protein is the major cause of osteoporosis and contributes to kidney failure and other diseases. The average American gets about seven times as much protein as they need to be healthy.

You can get enough protein from whole wheat bread, oatmeal, beans, corn, peas, mushrooms, or broccoli—almost every food contains protein. Unless you eat a great deal of junk food, it's almost impossible to eat as many calories as we need for good health without getting enough protein.


THE HUMAN BODY'S DESIGN
Carnivorous animals have long, curved fangs, claws, and a short digestive tract. Humans have flat, flexible nails and our so-called "canine" teeth are minuscule compared to those of carnivores, and even compared to vegetarian primates like gorillas and oranguatans. Our tiny canine teeth are better suited to biting into fruits than tearing through tough hides. We have flat molars and a long digestive tract suited to a diet of vegetables, fruits, and grains.

Some of our closest primate relatives are herbivores, yet for some reason we tend to compare ourselves to carnivores when justifying meat consumption.


ANIMAL CRUELTY
Animals on factory farms do not gain weight, lay eggs, and produce milk because they are comfortable, content, or well cared for, but rather, because they have been manipulated specifically to do these things through genetics, medications, hormones, and management techniques. In addition, animals raised for food today are slaughtered at extremely young ages, usually before disease and misery have decimated them.

Such huge numbers of animals are raised for food that it is less expensive for farmers to absorb some losses than it is to provide humane conditions.

[Bee]

I became a vegetarian because I don't like the taste or texture of most meat, and I grew up being forced to eat steak, which I absolutely hate. My parents said, "you're not a vegetarian, so there's no reason for you not to eat this". So, when I was about 14, I decided to become one. I did it overnight. A year later, I changed the rules for myself slightly so I could eat poultry, which I actually do like. So now I just don't eat beef or pork (plus lamb, rabbit, all those miscallaneous meats), just because I hate them. But if anyone asks, it's because I feel bad for the animals :D

EDIT: swishandflick...
My family, my culture is very reliant on meat (ever seen 'My Big Fat Greek Wedding?') and I would have a hard time sitting with my family for a meal if I chose to stop eating it.
My mom's family is Greek, and needless to say, they thought I was nuts. I think I may have even gotten that line "no meat? Well then, I make lamb" from my grandmother! But... I just can't help the fact that I hate the taste!

[Jenni The Hurja]

As with all my vegetarian friends, I don't really have a problem with the killing of the animals. I have a problem with the treatment they get before they get killed.

[Azimuth]

If humans were being slaughtered and served up at fast food restaurants, would you eat them and justify it by shrugging your shoulders and saying, "It's naive to think I can save a life!"

You're the naive one if you don't think it makes a difference. You probably won't vote when you grow up either because your one tiny voice couldn't possibly mean anything...

I wouldn't eat them anyway.

So, you think that by refusing to eat meat, you're going to save the lives of animals? There, you are incorrect. I don't really see where you're coming from with that statement, because it is just so clearly wrong. Is a farmer going to stop killing his animals just because you don't eat meat? To him, your opinion is irrelevant.

And if you are going to reply to a post, don't just call the poster names and be rude. There is no need for that. I am only fourteen and I have better manners than you.


This is absolutely the silliest argument I've ever heard. Anyone using the "plants are alive, so they're the same as animals" line is kidding themselves. You're just making yourself sound ignorant.

If indeed it has been shown that plants feel pain, I'd like some facts from a reliable source, please.

I wasn't the one that said that plants can feel pain.

Again, there is no need to be rude. I was just making the point that eating vegetation is still taking lives. Still destroying a living thing. I didn't say anything about plants being the same as animals. In the future, you might want to read what the person has said more closely before realliating with angry insults. It really isn't a very mature thing to do. :)

[GryffindorGr]

by OrbittingElle
WORLD HUNGER
We feed so much grain to animals in order to fatten them up for consumption that if we all became vegetarians, we could produce enough food to feed the entire world. In the U.S., animals are fed more than 80 percent of the corn we grow and more than 95 percent of the oats. The world's cattle alone consume a quantity of food equal to the caloric needs of 8.7 billion people—more than the entire human population on Earth.

We could feed EVERY SINGLE PERSON in the whole world. You've seen the commercials on tv asking for you to sponsor a starving child? There wouldn't be any starving chidren if we all adopted a vegetarian diet.

This is very nice but it’s not really realistic. In China, there are billions of people and the common fare there is everything! Well, just about. You can eat variety of snakes in restaurants, and in special weddings, you can request your favorite kind of pet: dogs. This is not to say that they can’t eat a more vegetarian diet, it’s because the land itself is not equipped enough or can house enough to grow greens. There just isn’t enough room and the soil itself is sparse and not good enough either. It really depends on where you’re from geographically. In Vietnam, there is more of a variety of vegetarians and they’re easily one of the most rich in soil. You see, it relies so much on the ground and the soil itself. In India, they lack so much farming because there’s not good soil to farm on, and if there is, its very little. So they have more of the lamb/sheep variety to eat and not the cow of course. You’re right that the U.S. can provide so much because of the technology and the consumption that Americans are entitled to eat and have. They have the resources, the rich soil (check out the Midwestern soil) and also, Canada is rich in soil. It may be covered in snow in the winter but the rest of the year it’s very good soil for growing lots of veggies. As for corn, it doesn’t have much of a nutritional value and it just fattens you up, which is why they feed a lot to the factory animals. Now I’m just typing this out of memory so I may have to get some facts about corn. In parts of South America, I read that the cows there are being sent off to the U.S. for trading and money, yet many parts of South America are poor,--some say they should have the cows distribute among their people to eat but how are people suppose to make money too? It’s a very complicated cycle and it’s almost so sad. It’s just that the land itself is valuable and what we put underground and what comes up depends on everything—from water to food source.
As for being a vegetarian, I think it’s very commendable that people choose to be one. I’m practically one myself but I do need my salmon and yummy fish :D I like what fish contains and it’s very healthy and nutritious so I don’t disregard that.

[daniel4hp]

So, you think that by refusing to eat meat, you're going to save the lives of animals? There, you are incorrect. I don't really see where you're coming from with that statement, because it is just so clearly wrong. Is a farmer going to stop killing his animals just because you don't eat meat? To him, your opinion is irrelevant.
But the more vegitarians there are, the more people there will be who will not be purchasing meat products, and consequently, the fewer animals will be killed. It's like voting -- one vote may not be much, but when many people cast one vote each, they add up. Or like boycotting -- a single person won't get very far, but when a number of people do it, you get results. By becomming vegitarian, you may not feel like you are doing much, but you will be helping a cause by not purchasing meat products. Eventually that will lead to fewer animals killed.

[Benzo]

I agree with Daniel and other posts. I think that not eating animal as a community would be a good things for our little planet. As it is said above, to produce one pound of cereal is far less demanding for the soil than one pound of meat, expecially beef. That way we would not take out all the nutrients the soil contains or at least at a slower oace.

There is also the quality of the meat we get. They put arsenic in chiken food to avoid them to get worms. Arsenic goes directly in the flesh we eat, then in our body. Arsenic can't get out of our body, it accumulates. That is just one example among hundreds of things the food industry does to get better result: faster, cheaper, at any costs including our health.

[totalmuggle]

I became a vegetarian because I don't like the taste or texture of most meat, and I grew up being forced to eat steak, which I absolutely hate. My parents said, "you're not a vegetarian, so there's no reason for you not to eat this". So, when I was about 14, I decided to become one. I did it overnight. A year later, I changed the rules for myself slightly so I could eat poultry, which I actually do like. So now I just don't eat beef or pork (plus lamb, rabbit, all those miscallaneous meats), just because I hate them. But if anyone asks, it's because I feel bad for the animals :D

EDIT: swishandflick...

My mom's family is Greek, and needless to say, they thought I was nuts. I think I may have even gotten that line "no meat? Well then, I make lamb" from my grandmother! But... I just can't help the fact that I hate the taste!

to be honest your not a vegetarian. your a pollotarian.( saying your a vegetarian gives the REAL curelty free people a bad name)

[RubberSoul]

to be honest your not a vegetarian. your a pollotarian.( saying your a vegetarian gives the REAL curelty free people a bad name)
It's not like she's a FAKE cruelty free person. It's just a choice of how far you want to go.

I agree with daniel4hp. Vegetarianism isn't pointless as long as there are enough people behind it to make it a worthy cause, and not a waste of time. More and more people are becoming interested in vegetarian diets, and if you can look at the glass half full - then every little bit helps.

[Chrysalis]

Actually, fish is healthy, but the seas are getting emptier by the minute. It's not just the cows that are suffering.

[strwznbrry]

I still hold to my earlier post that you can't get away from meat (no matter what the form) and if you feel that just stopping eating it because you want to make a difference in some way you really aren't going to stop an industry of that size.

I also want to say that if you look at research for different types of diseases and their causes and so forth you will find that any research can find what it is looking to prove in some way or another. My meaning on this is that with all the research that has been done on various diseases they can blame anything for anything. They can blame cancer on foods we eat, air we breath, things we do during our day, exercise, water, soil, sun, and so forth. The same with all types of other diseases. What I am trying to say is if you listen to what everyone wants you to believe then you wouldn't be allowed to do anything. Just existing would give you cancer or heart disease or whatever.

I am saying that people are genetically engineered to get the diseases they will get in their lives. Yes, you can try to live a healthy life style and hope what you do doesn't trigger the gene you have that is going to give you cancer but in the long run if your meant to get it your going to get it.

[Tane]

I always find it alarming when someone claims cruelty to animals when we use them for their meat and yet have in their house products that are not essential for staying alive that where tested on animals.