A hint of regret in Dumbledore's voice???

[dtpoet]

This has been bugging me since the news came yesterday. While I'm very excited that Dumbledore is going to tell Harry "everything", I can't help but notice that there seems to a bit of regret in the words he choices to use.

In HPSS, Harry asks Dumbledore why Voldemort wanted to kill him (harry) in the first place. Dumbledore replies;

"Alas, the first thing you ask me, I cannot tell you. Not today. Not now. You will know, one day...put it from your mind for now, Harry. When you are older...I know you hate to hear this...when you are ready, you will know."

To me, that sounds like Harry will discover for himself one day the answer to his question. Dumbledore didn't say that "I will tell later when your old enough." or "When the time is right, I shall explain it all to you."

However, this is what we know he says to Harry in "Phoenix";

"It is time," he said, "for me to tell you what I should have told you five years ago, Harry. Please sit down. I am going to tell you everything."

"Should have told him"? To me that sounds like Dumbledore now regrets not answering Harry's question from HPSS. Apparantly, there is now some sort of urgency(sic) for him to tell Harry now.

My point...in HPSS it appears that Dumbledore thought Harry would be able to answer the question himself. Now, he must tell him. He should have told him then. He regrets not telling him then.

Why??? Why??? Why???

dtpoet

[jensMAN]

This is very good question, but it is also very similar to a previous discussion on the quote itself.

I hate to think that DD can make a mistake - what if his decision to leave Harry at the Dursely's was a mistake he later regrets?(do not discuss this statement it is not the focal point of this forum)

[Weatherby]

I know!
That he should've told him makes it even more interesting doesn't it?
Everything??
Now this isn't necessarily a bad thing.
The tvshow Alias reveals a lot and still manages to come up with new things to keep us interested. Rowling is creative.
In learning 'everything' we'll have new stuff to learn possibly.

I think Fuchsia and JoFaye need to restart their stalkers club and sneak into Bloomsbury right now!

[Knight]

Well this must mean that something drastic will happen that will make Dumbeldore regret not telling Harry sooner. I'm sure at the time Dumbeldore had very good and plausible reasons not to tell Harry, so something must occur to change that perception. Perhaps "The Death" that is supposed to occur in the upcoming book.

[Ferrik]

Interesting question dtpoet. While we won't be able to find out until June 21st, there are a few possibilities that I can think of.

Events in book 5 may proceed in a way Dd does not expect. For instance, Voldemort may do something in such a way that the information becomes vital for Harry now. Dd might regret not planning better.

Something bad may happen as a result of Harry not knowing for the past 5 years. Dd might regret not telling him then and possibly preventing the event.

What Dd "should have told" Harry 5 years ago may be a question Harry didn't think of then. Dumbledore may regret not volunteering the information.

:shrug: Just a few things off the top of my head. Sorry for the tense changes.

[dorcasderr]

I think Dumbledore regrets that he COULDN'T tell Harry earlier. Harry is older now, and Dumbledore knows him a whole lot better, and knows what he is able to handle....but it IS intriguing...

[Weatherby]

Perhaps he's regretting that Harry has to know now and he's still not really ready?
I'm over analyzing now.

[dtpoet]

No, Weatherby, you are over-analyzing. Okay...maybe you are, but that's the whole point of the thread.

I like Knight's answer. But what could be so drastic to make Dumbledore tell Harry earlier than he wanted? What coul dbe so drastic that Dumbledore has this kind of regret?

dtpoet

[familiar]

I think Dd is regretting not telling Harry everything 5 years earlier, not that Harry is still too young to know. Either something bad happened and Harrys reaction was not the way he should have reacted had he known the past, or Dd has rethought his stance on Harry and decided he shouldn't have been keeping secrets from him. Dd did want to protect Harry, which is why he left him with the Dursleys and maybe he realized he was being over-protective.

JKR likes to write using characters with faults. Certainly somewhere in the 7-book series we will see Dd make a bad mistake. Perhaps this is it? Oh! The suspense is killing me! Is it June yet? :banghead:

[Professor_Lupin]

Although its likely that Dumbledore regrets not telling Harry the truth sooner. I don't think its a serious regret (for example no serious hard will result for Dumbledore not telling Harry sooner). I just think it was meant as a recognition by Dumbledore, that Harry could have probably heard the news sooner. That it would have probably been better for Harry to hear the truth a lot sooner.
But i don't think its any type of mistake on Dumbledores part, he probably thought he was protecting Harry.

Cheers

[Paige]

I am absolutely busting to know what it is!!! How dare they torture us with that!!!! AHHHH

[Weatherby]

dtpoet, since you put it that way..
I'm assuming Dumbledore is telling Harry why Voldemort wanted to kill him. So what could that be that Harry should've learned 5 years ago? and why would this have helped anything that has happened?

This makes the whole triumph thing more confusing since my mind is wondering about Voldemort having Harry's blood inside him. I'm leaping to all sorts of things.

[hpangel102]

What Dumbledore tells Harry is probably something he will regret saying. But he has to do it now, its probably the right time. When Harry asked about it in the first book, Dumbledore probably assumed that Harry didn't know enough about the wizarding world, and he probably wouldn't have understood what had to be said. Dumbledore is probably telling Harry everything he needs to know, not only why Voldemort wanted to kill him.

[GodricSlytherin]

He thinks he should have told him something. Five years ago. Like why he was sought after by Voldy. Why his parents had to die. What's with the dursleys. And a few other things that Harry hasn't thought of yet.

[harryton]

i think that he does regret it when he began to ask questions, so now dumbledore is going to tell him everything. He does sound a bit weird though, i cant wait for 21st

[hpangel102]

I think Dumbledore regrets having to be the one to tell him everything, especially because its about his past.....

[Ellen]

Oops, I should have checked further before posting to the other thread. Uh, if it's OK to repeat myself -

The first part of the quote is -

“Dumbledore lowered his hands and surveyed Harry through his half-moon glasses.

If DD lowers his hands before he looks at Harry, doesn't that suggest he was covering his face with them? As if with grief? As if something bad has already happened? Perhaps this is after a character died (well, it's supposed to happen in this book) and DD is thinking maybe it wouldn't have if Harry had known more? Or maybe DD is just realizing that he can't protect Harry from the truth anymore.

Of course, maybe Harry just made some really silly assumptions about his parents and DD was trying really hard to smother his laughter and get it back under control.

[crafty girl]

Maybe Dumbledore was waiting for Harry to ask the questions, but he never did. So when he says he should have told him, he means he expected Harry to ask. But then again, that would mean it couldn't be about Voldemort's reason for wanting to kill Harry. I'm grasping at straws here...I'm so excited to find out for real!!!!

Wouldn't it be funny if JKR was making all this stuff up and it had nothing to do with what was actually in the book? Then we'd all be driving ourselves crazy for her amusement.

[Carryn SkyDancer]

I don't think she'd do that. It just doesn't seem like her to release false quotes.

[nimbus2006]

I wish I could be cryogenically frozen until the 21st. My mom won't do it. :grumble:

[dumbleedore]

Something has to happen before that part of the book and DD realises that he has to tell Harry, that Harry can't protect himself unless he knows the truth.

Dumbledore might not be the only one with Harry. Lupin or Sirius could be there as well. Sirius was there in book 4. And if they were there it would be better as they know stuff that DD wouldn't (if that's possible).

But it is obvious that DD doesn't really know what happened with Sirius, Lupin, James, Peter and Lily before James and Lily died. In PoA Sirius had to explain things to him. DD obviously doesn't know some things about that...

[Auri DeMeer]

Earlier in the book Harry must have done something he wouldn't have done if he had known about what DD has to tell him.

Something serious must have been that....:shrug:

[spuachi]

Originally posted by familiar
I think Dd is regretting not telling Harry everything 5 years earlier, not that Harry is still too young to know. Either something bad happened and Harrys reaction was not the way he should have reacted had he known the past, or Dd has rethought his stance on Harry and decided he shouldn't have been keeping secrets from him.

Maybe DD is not regretting it because Harry did react badly, maybe he regretts it because HE hasn't enough time left to tell him everything... He could be injured

[dtpoet]

First, thank you all for posting to my thread. I wanted to take a few minutes and list all the wonderful theories we have to date on this statement.

(1)--Knight: Something drastic has just happened prior to this conversation.

(2)--Ferrik: Events unfold in such a way, like something unexpected that Voldemort has done, that it becomes vital for Harry to know what Dumbledore is about to tell him.

(3)--Ferrik: Something bad has just happened as a result of Harry not knowing what Dumbledore is about to reveal to him.

(4)--dorcasderr: Dumbledore regrets that Harry was to young to hear this information earlier.

(5)--Weatherby: Dumbledore regrets that Harry has to learn this now when he would rather he learn it later.

(6)--familiar: Dumbledore realizes he has been over-protecting Harry.

(7)--Professor Lupin: Not much of a regret, Dumbledore realizes Harry probably could have heard this sooner.

(8)--hpangel102: Dumbledore regrets that he has to be the one to tell Harry instead of Harry figuring out for himself or hearing it from someone else.

(9)--crafty girl: Dumbledore expected Harry to ask sooner, but he didn't.

(10)--dumbleedore: Harry wouldn;y be able to protect himself in the future unless he know now the information he is about to receive.

(11)--spuachi: Maybe Dumbledore is seriously hurt and/or doesn't think he has much time left so he must tell Harry now in case he's not around later.

THESE ARE ALL GREAT THEORIES!!!! I don't know which one I like better.

Personally, I like Knight's theory but with a twist. I think something has just happened. I also think that Dumbledore must tell Harry now because of the death that is suppose occur in the book. What Dumbledore is about to tell Harry is an attempt and/or explanation as to why this somebody (the person who dies in Book V) was killed. This is why it is a regret on Dumbledore's part. The death couldn't have been avoided based on the information, but the information may help Harry to understand why this person died.

The way I see it the beginnings of a "war" are brewing (will begin in Book VI). One can not fully understand the necessity for a war, especially when you are as young as Harry, without knowing the history leading up to the war. Take the current situation with Iraq. Sadly (I about to reveal my age here) some of you were infants when we first went to war with Iraq. Therefore, unless you've done your "homework", you may not fully understand why some people find it necessary to go to war with Iraq. Those of us who are old enough to remember the Gulf War, know the history and whether one agrees or not, understands why some people feel it is necessary to rid the world of Irag's leader.

Point being...For Harry to fully understand why the upcoming "war" must take place, he has to understand the history. He must know more than "Voldemort was a bad man who killed innocent people, etc., etc.". Up until know, Harry knows HOW and WHEN and some of the WHO Voldemort killed people. I think what Dumbledore is about to tell him is the WHY and WHERE.

Thanks and keep posting...

dtpoet

[nimbus2006]

In my opinion, your last post hit it on the head dtpoet. Obviously Dumbledore has to tell him, and maybe he wishes he could have told him earlier so Harry would have more time to understand. He needs to know what was happeneing prior to his birth, and why his parents had to die, as that will have to do with why he has to be the one always up against voldemort. And maybe it does have to do with a death that happened earlier in the book.. or another event. He needs to understand why it happened, and that it is not his fault.


Cheers.

[dtpoet]

Thank you, Nimbus2006...

The way I see it, he already feels responsible for Cedric's death. I think this is going to lead Harry to deeply ponder again what Volde meant in HPSS when he said that his mother didn't have to die, but she did to save him. I think this additional death in "Phoenix" is really going to put an emotional weight on Harry...the perverbial straw that breaks the camel's back per say. Harry's going to start thinking that all these death's...this new one, Cedric's, his parents, maybe others in the past...are all his fault. That's a lot of emotional baggage for a 15 year old to carry. Therefore, Dumbledore is going to explain that it is not his fault. That Harry is as much a victim of circumstance as the ones who have been murdered.

For example, I know a little boy (10) who was just in a snowmobile accident with his father. His father died because he wasn't wearing a helmet and smacked head-first into a tree. Afterwards, the boy told the police that he told his father that he (the father) should be wearing a helmet. Now this little boy might possibly feel somehow responsible for his father's death because he didn't "make" his father wear a helmet.

Obviously, Harry is not responsible for all these deaths. However, for whatever reason...say Voldemort needs Harry dead to achieve immortality (or whatever theory you hang your hat on)...because Harry is the focal point of Voldemort's wrath and all these people are ending up dead because of it, then Harry is going to feel responsible.

I'm starting to become redundant. Sorry. I don't know if I'm quite saying what I want to say.

dtpoet

[dumbleedore]

dtpoet, I am about to pass you a hammer because I think you have nailed it.

But, if DD is telling Harry everything because of the death, that means that the death would have to be someone involved, IE, Lupin, Sirius or Peter.

[dtpoet]

Not necessarily, Dumbleedore.

Any death at this point that Harry feels is attributed to him is going to make him feel guilty whether it's Lupin, Blck, Colin, Ginny, etc.

I personally feel that the death will be someone younger than Harry. This isn't based on anything really...just a hunch.

dtpoet

[MadMagic]

I think that what Dumbledore will tell Harry will make him re-examine some kind of choice that he has made. Maybe if Dumbledore had told hime earlier he would have don something differently. I think that it would be really cool if what Dumbledore says totally changes how we think of Harry, not necessarily a bad change(I wouldn't like that), but a drastic change in the significance in his actions and behaviors. I think it would be really cool if what we learn makes us read the previous 4 books differently. But all we can do is wait...

[spuachi]

Originally posted by dtpoet

I personally feel that the death will be someone younger than Harry. This isn't based on anything really...just a hunch.

dtpoet

JK said something like one of Harry's fans will die... maybe you're right and that person is one of the Creevy (Colin or maybe Dennis... The alive one could even blame Harry and that's why Dumbledore has to explain everything)

Do you imagine Colin becoming one of the bad guys?

[nimbus2006]

I definately do not see how, considering how obsessed he is with Harry..

[spuachi]

Yeah, but if he THINKS that Harry is guilty for the death of his brother, then I don't think he would still be a "fan". Of course he would still be obssesed, but with other intentions!!

All the bad guys come from Slytherin... but there can always be exceptions...

[nimbus2006]

Yes, but Colin is not Harrys only fan. I can think of a few that really pop out: Mrs. weasley, Ginny, Mr. weasley (any weasley for a matter of fact) Colin, Hagrid, Lupin, Sirius...
Pretty much everyone on the side against Voldy is going to be a fan of Harry's. Of course the depth of their fandom ranges, but deciphering just who would be impossible.
Also, you are right, not all bad guys come from Slytherin, as I do not THINK that Peter Pettigrew was in Slytherin. I doubt the other Mauraders would be friends with him then.

Back on topic:
I still think that dtpoet is correct, or as closest to correct as we can get at this moment. :)

^(went back on topic so I wouldn't be beat to death by mods with beating sticks)
poke:

[nimbus2006]

*bump*

(Sorry about posting twice.. the last time I posted here was days ago, and I didn't think editting a post bumped it)

*back on topic too* :)

[rikuownsyou]

:rolleyes: I am just tring to forget about the fifth book..I think to myself..I have it pre-ordered..stop worring.butt I think that Dumblodore will have something happen to him because he didnt tell Harry something thta he should of..I guess that something isa big key to the seiers:D

[Katze]

I think that Dumbledore might sound regrestful that V is now back. I don't think D would tell Harry everything if V wasn't back.

I think D would've told him towards the end of Harry's last year at Hogwarts, but now that V is back it's necessary to tell Harry precisely what happened.

Dumbledore realized that even at Hogwarts, Harry isn't safe. By telling him everything, he equips Harry with knoweldge of the past, and possible solutions to the future.

Just a thought...

[Sam]

I'm not sure that the question that Harry asks in SS is what Dumbledore will tell him in OoP. All of the clues point to that, but haven't we all learned that JKR is the master of tricking us? Maybe she's going to tell us about Harry's ancestory...or maybe something else.

We have to wait only 19 days more!!!!!

[RosePetal4ever]

I think that Dumbledore had regreted not telling him, because it could of saved him alot of heartache. Harry had wanted to know why Voldemort wanted him dead. And Dumbledore didn't tell him. There was no reason not too. He needed to know. Every year he had gone up against Voldemort and his minions. And because Dumbldore didn't tell Harry, all Harry knew was that he was fighting for the world. Both the Wizarding and the Muggle. He knew that he was fighting for his parents and all the innocent that died. Now that Harry knows I think that he is going to go all out to have Voldemort dead.

[harryfantotheend]

I agree with RosePetal. I think that in upcoming books, we are going to see Harry fight with a new sense of urgency. If Dumbledore had told Harry earlier, maybe Harry would have been able to fight with that same power earlier. If Harry had done that, we might have been in the second war earlier and therefore Voldemort becoming defeated earlier. However, if Harry started fighting all out sooner, it would take a long time before the ministry was alerted and starting believing Dumbledore. That could slow the process of the second war. Harry could become badly wounded or killed long before Voldemort was defeated. That would have the opposite effect. All things considered, I definitely think Dumbledore regrets not telling Harry sooner, especially once he sees Harry start fighting with a new sense of urgency.

[jordmundt6]

No, actually, the speech pattern matches Sybill's other prophecy. It's possible that He clipped part of the prophecy off the beginning since the question we've been asking since the book came out is "How did Voldemort know to go looking for a male child?" since the half his servant heard doesn't mention gender. Part of me thinks that something is being held back, but this sounds like the entire truth about the PROPHECY. Now, there could be other secrets to Harry that Dumbledore has been hiding that haven't been revealed yet. By the way, kudos to Dumbleedore on an excellent prediction way back when. I was stuck on Hagrid because of the fan quote and the size and the red herring from the film. Let that be a lesson to all of us. Never EVER trust a film. for clues to canon.

[LumosSoleil]

There definately was a hint of regret in DD's voice. True, he could have finished off LV if he wanted to, but he chose not to. He loves Harry and cares for Tom Riddle. He is right about what he said, "It is our choices that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." It's not whether he would save Harry or kill LV. He can save Harry or do the latter, but he couldn't. To me, that was not even an option he can choose; therfore, he did nothing. Harry saved himself from death. DD sees what Harry is capable of and he is willing to let Harry make his choices himself without his interference. We know DD has powers that surpasses anyone's imagination, but he chooses not to divulge them. If Harry does resume Occlumency and it is with DD, we may have a peek of what he's capable of. I guess DD regrets not interacting with Harry much and sees the price he has to pay because he played along the sidelines instead of on the field with Harry and letting Harry acknowledge that. Adults make mistakes. They are fallible. I enjoyed that emphasis in OotP when we get to see adults arguing over choices and responsibilities over those they love. It gave the story more realism to it. When we find out DD's secret, that further reinforces the fact that even though Harry lives in a magical community, with the greatest wizards as his guardians, he still has to stand on his own. People die and they are imperfect. DD himself is not as majestic as we envisioned him before now that we see his human side.

[jordmundt6]

Lumos--No, he couldn't have. That's the whole point of the prophecy, only Harry has the power to kill and completely destroy Voldemort.

[LumosSoleil]

Lumos--No, he couldn't have. That's the whole point of the prophecy, only Harry has the power to kill and completely destroy Voldemort.
Yea that's true. Sorry, I got lost in discussion :blush:

[jordmundt6]

That's okay--that happens to me sometimes too. But the regret, like the triumph, is only partially explained.

[Polychrome]

I just think it's the whole "loss of innocence" theme.

Harry Potter was doomed to have a bit of an abnormal life, due to the prophecy. And if you'll notice, Harry seems to rather dislike his superhero status. Imagine growing up around all that attention? And imagine having been told once you enter middle school "By the way, you're supposed to kill this guy, because you'll die if you don't." Ouch! How do you think a kid would handle that? Either situation is rather nasty.

What does Dumbledore do? Put him with his only remaining relatives, hoping that he'll have a somewhat normal childhood either way. Well, unfortunately, the Dursleys didn't give him much of one. Do you think Dumbledore would have the heart to ruin Harry's childhood before he even had one? No. All Harry ever wanted was a normal life. It's the one thing he can't have.

So by Order of the Phoenix, 2 people have died in Harry's presence, seemingly because of him. Any trace of innocence is gone. At least for now, he considers the world to be a terrible place with death and destruction, and all because of himself. At this point, telling Harry what was in the prophecy would solve two problems. It might calm him down a bit, showing him that none of this is his fault. (Notice how he wasn't angry at Dumbledore toward the end, he was really angry at himself.) It would also show him that he has the power to end the problem, giving him hope of possibly a normal life in the future.

Though, as expected, the idea of killing someone isn't exactly on Harry's to-do list after feeling responsible for several deaths already. He is mentally and emotionally exhausted. I'm guessing the sixth book will be somewhat of a recovery time for him, to prepare for the seventh and eventual final battle.

I think it's also safe to say that he and Dumbledore came to an understanding that night. I doubt Harry will remain angry at the world as he acted in Order of the Phoenix. He will, out of pure necessity, need to mature in order to prepare himself for the upcoming battle.