Draco and Snape

[Camo]

This is just a thought that i have been pondering over for a while.

Wouldn't most of the Death Eaters know that Snape is a spy for Dumbledore?

Therefore Lucius Malfoy knows so wouldn't he tell his son, Draco as he tells him pretty much everything?
But for some reason, Draco thinks Snape is the best teacher. Why is this so?

Maybe I am reading into it too much and got it totally wrong, or maybe Snape is still on Voldemort's side.

What do you guys think?

[PerenganoDeTal]

you're on to something, but if Snape was a spy for Dumbledore, wouldn't Dumbledore be the only one that knew? it wouldn't be spread around that Snape has turned away from Voldemort. Chances are that Lucius doesn't know, even though Voldemort 'sensed' in book 4 that certain ppl would not return. Does he know that Snape will not? And if Snape goes to spy, will Voldemort sense that he is a spy? Voldemort could sense that Wormtail did not want to return, but was scared?

[Picko]

Voldemort knows that Snape no longer sides with him. Remember in book 1 Snape and Quirrel had many confrontations, from then on Voldemort would have known where Snape's loyalties lied.

[Yadiami]

I think Lucius didn't know but Voldemort will tell him, and then, he tells to Draco. Maybe then Draco would be a kind of spy, telling "weak points" of staff and Hogwarts.
Or maybe they knew (or suspected) all the time, so Draco was being "nice" to Snape, so he trust Draco (I doubt it, Snape would take compliments but he would never talk a Malfoy about the "old gang" and all that.

[Picko]

I cannot really imagine Snape being tricked by someone like Malfoy. I don't think that Snape has particularly good relations with any of his students although he obviously favours his own students. In regards to something so important I can imagine that Snape would be very business like and that Malfoy would have no chance of finding any information from him.

[Inkwolf]

I think Draco doesn't know or doesn't believe that Snape turned against Voldemort. Maybe Lucius originally thought that Snape's spying was a lie to keep him out of Azkaban. (Like Lucius's 'Imperious curse.')

Maybe finding out that Snape opposes Voldemort will make Draco think and reassess his own position. I think Snape will work hard to keep Draco, his favorite student, out of Voldemort's clutches.

[Rao]

I think J.K.R. will put Draco to decide who he'll side. Come on, Draco would be the coolest on the good side. :~

[dog star]

Originally posted by Inkwolf
I think Snape will work hard to keep Draco, his favorite student, out of Voldemort's clutches.

I think so, too. Snape knows that Draco is in a very precarious position, because his father will most certainly try to get him to join the Death Eaters once he gets older. Snape, being the crafty and sly fellow that he is, will likely find incons picuous ways in which to question Draco about what's happening in his life outside of Hogwarts, and, in turn, even more inconspicuous ways of convincing him NOT to join the Death Eaters. Which would then most certainly draw the wrath of Lucius upon both of them. It should be interesting, that's for sure.

[Remus Lupin]

Hmm, yes Draco has charisma, but no where near enough to pull the wool over Snape's eyes. That and i do think that Snape is loyal to Dumbledor, hence why Dumbledor said the "you know what to do Severus" at the end of the 4th book.

[dog star]

Yes, there is no question in my mind that Snape is loyal to the good side, and Dumbledore. I don't think he's playing both sides off of each other...he doesn't strike me as the inherently evil type, like Lucius. Nor do I think he'll return again as a spy, because A) he would be killed before he so much as opened his mouth in Voldemort's inner circle and B) it would be too obvious, from a reader's point of view. I'm curious to find out what the task was Dumbledore gave Snape, because I don't think it was spying. Snape will more than likely try to enlist Draco to help the good side...I'm fairly sure of that.

[hpangel102]

I think Snape is now on the good side, and will most likely stay on the good side. Picko, your right, Voldemort would know where Snapes loyalties lied, because of the confrontations! I never thoguht about that!

[hippogryph]

There are 3 good reasons for Draco to like Snape.

1) Snape thinks that Draco will be good in potions. Notice how he looked at Draco when he said, "Some of you who have the ability ..." etc. Perhaps Draco's mom or dad was good, and he expects the same of Draco.

2) Snape is Draco's head of house, and probably does his best to keep him out of trouble and to award him points. Snape is competitive about house status. Just listen to him talk to McGonogal about Quiddich!

3) Snape hates Harry.
Even if Snape does try to save Harry, it doesn't mean he will ever like him. This makes Snape Draco's soulmate of sorts. He is certainly an ally. Isn't it right for a Slytherin to have self interest. It can't hurt to be friends with the one teacher that shares your opinion of your enemy.

As for Snape influencing Draco to stay on the good side, I think that he has the best chance of doing it. I think that school is a haven for Draco. He has friends and status at Hogwarts. If Lucius Malfoy tried to transfer Draco to Durmstrum, I think that Draco would argue with his dad to stay. I think that Snape is the only teacher that Draco really respects.

[Professor_Lupin]

Once again i don't think Lucius would reveal that type of information to Draco. Allowing your son to know you have dark artifacts and dabble in the dark arts is one thing. But telling him your a death eater and work for voldermort is another.

[dog star]

Originally posted by hippogryph
3) Snape hates Harry.
Even if Snape does try to save Harry, it doesn't mean he will ever like him. This makes Snape Draco's soulmate of sorts. He is certainly an ally. Isn't it right for a Slytherin to have self interest. It can't hurt to be friends with the one teacher that shares your opinion of your enemy.


I don't think Snape hates Harry. I think Harry reminds Snape of unpleasant events in his past, and atrocious things he might have done, but I don't think Snape hates Harry. If your presence alone reminds someone of the worst memories they have, I doubt they'll be delighted to be around you, nor will they treat you well. But it doesn't mean they hate you.

[hippogryph]

O.K. then Dog Star. Maybe he doesn't HATE Harry, but he certainly doesn't like him.

He goes out of his way to state that Harry is given too much leeway. That Harry has the same disreguard for rules that his father does.

And Snape really didn't like James Potter or his friends. On PoA he would have preferred to send Sirius Black to the dementors without listening to any explaination even when he knew that they had orders to suck the soul out of him as soon as they got him. That seems to prove to me that Snape is pretty serious about his grudges.

Even if Snape is basically on Harry's side in the war against Voldemort , there is no evidence that he actually likes Harry at all.
(Except maybe him wishing him luck in the quiddich game in the CoS movie.)

[lanifiel]

There are some things you do not share with your son, and the inner most workings of the death-eaters and their members is one of these things. I think Draco likes Snape because:

a) Snape is the Head of Slytherin House.
b) Draco likes to have friends in high places, Snape is that.

Alternativly, maybe Draco does know that Snape is meant to be Dumbledores spy (I still think, hes got some major evil issues he needs to work out) and is just trying to get close to him...

[Picko]

hippogryph, don't take too much notice of the movies, nothing that takes place in them can be considered fact. The only thing that should be considered when talking about Harry Potter are the books.

Personally, I don't think that Snape hates Harry but Harry does remind him of James and we know how well those two got on. If Snape hated Harry he would be quite happy to allow Voldemort to get his hands on Harry. However at the moment Snape seems firmly on Dumbledore's side and therefore working to protect Harry.

[Barbara Kennedy]

I did wonder about Snape wishing Harry luck before that Quiddich game. It almost seemed out of character. Definitely raised suspicions.

[Weatherby]

This is a "transfer" from another thread. I realised it was more suited to this page so I deleted my post and placed it here. :)

Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258666#post258666))
Lucius knows that Snape is a traitor, a spy on the good side. But then there comes this passage:

Hasn't Lucius told his son that Snape is on Dumbledore's side, and that he must not be trusted?


Auri DeMeer - That's a great question.
I've often wondered if Lucius tells Draco anything important. It's doubtful he'd disclose the Death Eater's by name. Draco could figure it out of course by his father's friends but if Snape and Lucius appeared to be friendly he wouldn't guess that either of them were spying on each other. If that's what they are doing.

[Wild Rose]

Originally posted by Barbara Kennedy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258531#post258531))
I did wonder about Snape wishing Harry luck before that Quiddich game. It almost seemed out of character. Definitely raised suspicions.


I think that was more than a little bit sarcastic. The way he said it sounded like her was taking the mickey.

[Loz]

I think it is probably likely that Lucius thought that Snape was lying - and that Draco would follow what his father says. Draco has no discretion - but he knows how to suck up. Snape is unfortunately quite tuned in to compliments depending upon where they're from - who wouldn't enjoy being told they'd make a good headmaster? Snapey would probably believe that Lucius had mended his ways - just like he himself had.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Originally posted by Wild Rose (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258784#post258784))
I think that was more than a little bit sarcastic. The way he said it sounded like her was taking the mickey.


Say what????????????

[draco]

If DD trusts Snape, then so do I. Let's stop being so worried about Snape, ok??

[remo]

I think there is something between Snape and Malfoy. I don't know if it is a friendship or hatred though. Page 706 of the US paperback Harry names Malfoy as one of the deatheaters "Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape's eyes flew back to Fudge."
Why did Snape make a sudden movement when Harry said that Malfoy was one of the Death Eaters?
I think Snape either was outraged that Malfoy went back to Voldemort, or Snape wanted to shut Harry up. But that had to mean something.

[Wild Rose]

Oops, should have been "The way he said it sounded like he was taking the mickey." Attack of the typos. I dont know how to explain it, but it sounded very sarcastic to me, rather than sincere.

@-'-,------------

[Barbara Kennedy]

Great interpretation. I never thought of that explanation, remo, you could definitely be onto something there.

[draco]

"Snape's eyes flew back to fudge..." Now that's interesting. We all know that only bats can fly, so is JK is saying that Snapes eyes are bats?? Which is yet another clue that Snape IS A VAMPIRE!!!!!!

[bakedorgans]

Draco, this is not the thread to discuss Snape's vampirism. There's a whole different thread for that. Make sure you do a proper search if you don't know where something should go. (Although it is a well-spotted point.)

[Barbara Kennedy]

Originally posted by remo (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=259986#post259986))
I think there is something between Snape and Malfoy. I don't know if it is a friendship or hatred though. Page 706 of the US paperback Harry names Malfoy as one of the deatheaters "Snape made a sudden movement, but as Harry looked at him, Snape's eyes flew back to Fudge."
Why did Snape make a sudden movement when Harry said that Malfoy was one of the Death Eaters?
I think Snape either was outraged that Malfoy went back to Voldemort, or Snape wanted to shut Harry up. But that had to mean something.


Very good question. Maytbe he started to exclaim something about Malfoy, but shut himself up just in time?

[Auri DeMeer]

I think the "sudden movement" was to make Harry shut up - like an instinctive reaction to everything Harry says.

But then the last events (Harry telling his encounter with Voldemort and the DE) made Snape think that Harry was in fact telling the truth. It's like a turning point in his view of him.

[dog star]

Originally posted by draco (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=259997#post259997))
"Snape's eyes flew back to fudge..." Now that's interesting. We all know that only bats can fly, so is JK is saying that Snapes eyes are bats?? Which is yet another clue that Snape IS A VAMPIRE!!!!!!


Oh good lord. Can we reach any further? Can that vampire theory get any more ridiculous?

[Barbara Kennedy]

Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=271362#post271362))
I think the "sudden movement" was to make Harry shut up - like an instinctive reaction to everything Harry says.

But then the last events (Harry telling his encounter with Voldemort and the DE) made Snape think that Harry was in fact telling the truth. It's like a turning point in his view of him.

We can hope so, its about time Snape started to believe Harry.

[jordmundt6]

Could it be that Snape thought that Harry was about ready to name him on that laundry list, and then calmed down when he wasn't (Fudge does not trust Snape as Dumbledore does so if none of the other names are treated with respect, his might be.

Or it could have been an exclamation about the Malfoys. That's very possible.

[Weatherby]

Snape wasn't there so why would he think Harry would name him?
Snape has his reasons though.. I'm not sure if he's protecting the Malfoys or he thought Malfoy really had been tricked before..

[Barbara Kennedy]

Perhaps he started to ask if so-and-so was there but stopped himself. He was in an awkward place to ask such things.

[tarachristwen]

snape's favourite student is draco.don't you guys find it weird
since snape doesn't like draco's father?!

[jordmundt6]

Voldemort's back. He met with the Death Eaters! I can give you their names! Malfoy. Macnair! Nott. Crabbe. Goyle. Avery.

Okay at this point, Snape knows Harry's laying it all on the line. He also knows what he would do in this position. If you have vulnerable enemy, eliminate him. If Fudge were listening to reason, all Harry would have to do would be to name him (Harry knows he's a Death Eater. And remember, Snape doesn't know that Dumbledore and Harry have had a conversation about him. For all Snape knows, Voldemort actually did name him!) Then he's basically screwed because there's incontrovertible evidence that he was a Death Eater and a reactionary Fudge might seize whoever he could get his hands on. Instead, something even worse happens. Fudge refuses to believe a syllable. If he refused to believe any of it (though Harry had made it all up to cover up Cedric's murder) why didn't he demand that Harry testify under the influence of Veritaserum. Harry fears the stuff and what he might say, but he's passionate enough about this that he'd do almost anything to at least raise the red flag on the Death Eaters he knows about.

And Barbara raises an interesting possibility, could Snape have been about to ask if someone sa yet unnamed was there?

P.S. Fudge is lucky he walked out when he did. If he'd stuck around any longer he would have been ripped to shreds by Padfoot. Not that that necessarily would have been a bad thing.:D

[lunchbox-hobbit]

I dont think that Draco knows the identities of the death eaters except for his parents, and that he is assuming that snape is because he is the head of slytherin and always seems to act very mean. (these are what I think charecteristics of a death eater are)

Also, since snape was once a death eater, he must know tht Lucious Malfoy is a death eater, and Draco is his favorite student, so maybe Draco is secretley giving information about the death eaters plans to snape??:wow:

[Barbara Kennedy]

I don't think that Lucius even knows the names of many of the DEs, likely he knows Crabbe and Goyle.

I don't think it likely that Draco knows anything at all about DE plans to tell Snape.

[dddraco]

You are all forgetting Snape used to be a a sort of a double agent for Voldie AND Dumbledor so naturally TO keep his name help high in the deathe eaters mind he has to do things like act like he despises harry(which he most probably really does) and treat one of Voldies head Deat eaters sons with great respect in spite of harry... thats just something he would be using to cover his you-know-what... in case ever copnfronted by voldie about what he was doing all this time and why had he not disapparated to him when he called...

[jordmundt6]

Snape's feud with Harry and preference for Draco is more than a smokescreen it's legit. But yes, that would be something he could use as handy exculpatory evidence that he wasn't in Dumbledore's pocket.

[Hpmons]

I think that Snape is much more nice to Draco because he wants to remain good friends with Lucius. Lucuis and Snape have been friends since both of them were DEs, and so they probably trust each other quite a lot. Also, as we have seen by Karkaroff's naming; not every Death Eater knows every other one. They are often hooded, so they cant recognise each other. In his re birth ceromony, Voldermort passed some DEs without a word. So Lucius might assume Snape was there.

Draco likes Snape becuase:
A) Lucius is good friends with him
B) He is nasty to Harry Potter
C) He is nice to Draco, and Slytherin in general

I dont think that Draco passes secrets onto Snape, Draco may act like he knows everything about DEs etc. But Im sure sometimes he doesnt even know what his own father has done.

[jordmundt6]

Yeah, that about sums up the relationship. No one DE was supposed to know everyone else, but I think Lucius was a major hub in the machine.

[Wild Rose]

Originally posted by tarachristwen (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=274147#post274147))
snape's favourite student is draco.don't you guys find it weird
since snape doesn't like draco's father?!


Why do we think that? I dont think they have been in the same place in the books, have they?
Only the film (as far as I know. Please, feel free to correct me.)

@-'-,--------------------

[Barbara Kennedy]

It is entirely possible to like a student who you believe is talented in your class and still despise their parent, for whatever reason.

[jordmundt6]

Yes, but that isn't Snape's MO. The sins of the father are visited on the son (no matter how talented the son) and the greatness of the father is reflected in the son (no matter how incompetent the son).

[Barbara Kennedy]

Not exactly sure how you meant that, but I think you are saying that he treats the kids as he would treat their father [?] or something like that?

[Hpmons]

I think he means the the son and father can be very different from each other, yet people will assume that they have similar personalities.

I always get the impression Snape and Lucius are good friends. They both have (even if Snape doesnt any more) dabbled in the Dark Arts, and followed Voldermort; and they both despise Harry. They both used to be in Slytherin.

[supernatural]

i got the impression they are close friends as well, but now it has been pointed out, i am not sure they have ever crossed paths in the books.
*research cap on*
maybe the fact that they're both portrayed as evil and despise harry are both death eaters, and add the fact tht snape is head of slytherin and draco is in slytherin- and how draco and snape interact with each other, give us cause to believe the two are on good terms with each other.
poke:

[ArabellaBlack]

Draco really seems like the type who'd do anything for his father's approval, doesn't he? And he obviously doesn't get it very often. In CoS, in Knockturn Alley, we see Draco and his dear old dad pretty much by themselves, and I got the vibe that Lucius really doesn't like his son, for whatever reason (Draco's too young to develop such a character flaw in his father's eyes that his father would despise him for it, don't you think? Perhaps he simply does not like having a child, but there's evidence against it, so I'm not betting on anything.). Or maybe Death Eaters just don't make the best parents (how's that for a possibility? :) ) Draco may be growing up in his father's shadow, or maybe he knows his dad is doing something wrong, but it's his DAD, so how could he be doing anything wrong? You know, kid mentality. I'm just sure that something's up with that relationship, there has to be.
So why does Snape favor Draco so much? I don't doubt that he and Lucius knew each other fairly well, therefore it's possible Snape knew Draco as a baby. Draco's also in Slytherin, which definately counts for something. Snape might feel bad for Draco, but then that would imply he feels bad for Harry as well, as he contributed indirectly to the cause of Harry's parent's death at one point just by being a Death Eater. Draco is quite unpleasant in the books, even though it might not be his own fault. But Snape liked him right from the start, even before Draco started being very horrible, ruling out that Snape likes Draco because of his unpleasantness toward Harry. Could Draco remind Snape of himself? Sirius says that Snape was a slimy kid who knew more Dark magic when he first came into school than half of the kids in seventh year. That certainly sounds like Draco, from Harry's point of view, at least, doesn't it?
I'd never really given much thought to Draco and Snape, and thought that since Harry disliked them both, it was just fitting for Snape to favor Draco. However, there could be something else going on...

I apologize for my rambling. :)

[Barbara Kennedy]

Don't apologize, ArabellaBlack, your "ramblings" are very good.

[Wild Rose]

No, I thought most of it made good sense. Please, dont feel the need to apologise.
I wondered sometimes if Snape favoured Draco because he knows what Lucius is like, very cold. The same way he treats Harry Potter badly, because no-one else does.

@-'-,---------------

[Barbara Kennedy]

Perhaps Snape's father was cold and distant too. Could that be the connection between Snape and Malfoy? He recognizes Draco's need for approval?

[dog star]

Originally posted by Barbara Kennedy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=287103#post287103))
Perhaps Snape's father was cold and distant too. Could that be the connection between Snape and Malfoy? He recognizes Draco's need for approval?


That's exactly what I think is the reason Snape treats Draco the way he does...he sees himself in Draco. I definitely think Snape's father was a lot like Lucius if not a little worse, and he empathizes. He also doesn't want Draco to repeat his past mistakes...that's why I think things will get interesting later between the two of them as Snape tries to stop Draco from joining the DEs (as he no doubt will).

[jordmundt6]

And he will fail. Again. Too bad. I'm sure it will be another valiant effort.

[Barbara Kennedy]

What, jordmundt6?
What "again"?
What do you mean, or are you just spamming this thread?
I mean, you have been very eloquent in all the other posts you made tonight, why the cryptic message in this one?

[jordmundt6]

I have a theory. Unsubstantiated as yet, that Snape was the spy who informed Dumbledore that the Potters were Voldemort's next target. I think Severus may have been trying to repay that blood debt sooner than we all thought. Sadly, if that's what happened, it didn't work. Hence "again." Presumptuous on my part, but I think it's an interesting and plausible theory. Any contradictory evidence?

[Barbara Kennedy]

This isn't the thread for that discussion. Try "Snape the Spy" or "Snape's Mission" where that theory has been discussed already.

[jordmundt6]

Okay, I wasn't really trying to start it afresh, I just wanted to clarify what I meant by "again."

[Alison]

I'm half inclined to think Rowling made Snape favour Draco just to have a fun teachers pet story line and to make Harry hate Snape more and show how unfair Snape is.

On the other hand, it did strike me as very strange when I found out Snape is a former Death Eater and Lucius is a current one. I think there is some relationship between Lucius and Severus. Maybe Lucius knowingly or unknowingly passed information to Snape, and Snape feels the need to keep up good relations with the family. Or maybe Snape knows something about Lucius that we don't, something he did or something about his character that could play a big role in the future. I think Lucius Malfoy will play a big role in future books, based on Rowling's saying something in Book 2 will be very important. It could have to do with his having Voldemort's old things. That's a little wierd.

[Barbara Kennedy]

I think that the relationship between Snape and Draco will be much more well-defined in the next book. We are bound to learn something.

[Moonstone]

Draco gets some short term benefit while in school from being Snape's favorite. But I can't see it making him a better person in the long run or convincing him to go over to the good side in the end. If anything, the long term effect may be that Draco will be a lesser wizard, as he has coasted somewhat and not had to work as hard to achieve. Snape may not intend that to be the case, but the values Draco would pick up by being the object of blatant favoritism are not ones that will help him succeed.

[Girl]

I feel that Draco and snape are alot alike. Both want fame, Snape wanted the Order of Merlin while Draco wanted to be friends with the famouse Harry Potter on the first day.

Draco also seems like a youg version of Snape. Both wanting to be friends with the popular kids but when that cant the they to get them into trouble. Snape wanted to get Jamesa and his friends into trouble may times that's why he kept following they around.
Draco does the same with Harry (PS) when they tried to get the dragon out.

Maybe Draco will be like Snape and turn from his father to the good side. Like Snape I don't think that Draco could kill anyone in cold blood. When he sees what the DE are really like he will hopefuly change.
May be that's why Draco is Snape's faviorte student Draco reminds Snape of himself.

[jordmundt6]

But there's a flaw here. Draco is seriously hung up on the purity of blood and takes every opportunity to bash Hermione while Snape has never uttered a syllable against Lily, though his many tirades against James have given him numerous chances. Why not? A connection we don't know about yet?

[Earendil]

I seriously doubt that Draco will turn to the good side. I see the similarities between him and Snape, but I do not see the fundamental goodness. The incident that convinced me that Draco is incapable of finding any good within himself was his remark at the end of GoF on the train home (paraphrase): "You've chosen the losing side, Potter! Now that the Dark Lord's back, Mudbloods will be the first to go! Well, second, Diggory was the f--"

Add this to the muttering to Crabbe and Goyle during DD's speech at the Leaving Feast, and I honestly doubt that Draco has any fundamental goodness. He has been taught hatred and discrimination by his father, and I don't think he can reform.

[Therese Delacour]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=295365#post295365))
But there's a flaw here. Draco is seriously hung up on the purity of blood and takes every opportunity to bash Hermione while Snape has never uttered a syllable against Lily, though his many tirades against James have given him numerous chances. Why not? A connection we don't know about yet?


What I find very interesting is the fact that Snape is a Death Eater, and we know Death Eaters are against Muggle-borns and Muggle lovers. Most of them have to be if they follow Voldemort willingly, and I believe Snape once followed Voldemort willingly until he switched sides for an unknown reason. But this doesn't mean that Snape is prejudice on Muggles; to tell you the truth, we really do not know much about Snape or his childhood to develop a conclusion. Which means, we do not know whether Draco and Snape are alike. The only thing I see where they may have had some similarities is the rivalry between Harry and Draco paralleling Snape and James hatred, as Dumbledore has said in SS.

But I wonder why Draco seems to be Snape's favorite. Maybe Snape knows Lucius Malfoy, or maybe they are friends? I once had a crazy theory that Snape was related to Lucius, but I squashed that theory.

[harp230]

In my opinion I do not think Snape really favors Draco. i think that is just Harry and co's biased opinion. Yeah snape is harsher on Harry because he is biased against him because of Harry's father and friends, because of this it just "looks" like Snape likes Draco when its more that he just wants to stick it to Harry.
I just think that the only person that Snape likes is Dumbledore.

[Therese Delacour]

That's a very interesting theory, Harp, and one I haven't thought of before. So, are you saying that it looks like Snape favors Draco to Harry's POV? If that is what you're referring to, how do you explain about what happened in PoA when Draco was "injured" and he asked for someone to cut up his roots? I don't think Snape would have done that for any other student. Or are you saying that Snape is acting like he favors Draco just to make Harry feel jealous or angry? But I do agree with you on the fact that Snape likes Dumbledore. He seems very loyal to him.

[harp230]

I would say that it is definately possible that Snape had somene else take over the roots just to irritate Harry. Im sure its a nice bonus if he can annoy Harry's friends too. Snape is just mean and spiteful. He knows how to push Harry's buttons. I don't think that he would be that nice( just indifferent) to Draco and the other Slytherins if he didn't get find joy in toutturing Harry.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Originally posted by Barbara Kennedy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=289268#post289268))
I think that the relationship between Snape and Draco will be much more well-defined in the next book. We are bound to learn something.


On reflection, I think that the relationship between Draco and Snape will be strained by the events in GoF. That will depend on how much Draco learned about Snape's involvement in the events as well though. Draco may not hear much about it unless his father discusses it at home.

[Wild Rose]

I think alot of the relationship is based on what each thinks the other knows, rather than what they actually know.

@-'-,--------------

[Barbara Kennedy]

Of course, Wild Rose, neither would really have any idea of what the other really knows.
They could only guess.
They will be wary and suspicious around each other because of that alone.

[Ecthelion]

have a feeling that it isn't a greatly interwoven connection. I simply feel that Snape sees himself in Draco when he was a hogwarts member. And in turn, he sees the Draco vs. Harry thing as Himself vs. James and whenever he sees a chance to put Draco one up on Harry...he does so, in the way of thinking that when he does this, it is like him putting one up on James, who in my opinion never got one-upped by snape very often except for one time.....but that is another story and you can go to my posts in the who dies thread page 69 half way through to see that story. Anyways, that is how I view Snape's connection with Malfoy, not by some death eater link, because I don't think Lucius is close to Snape or by the way they think, but because Snape sees Draco, as the mirror image of him in school.

[Poppy]

My personal theory might be a little out there but............. I remember reading that Snape was in a gang at school in GoF (can`t quite remember the exact quote) but I wouldn`t be suprised if Malfoy and Snape were friends at school (along with Crabbe and Goyle etc), they would have been in the same house and they are about the same age, I guess. Then they became Death Eaters together. Despite Snape turning spy or whatever he remained friends with Malfoy and so takes an interest in Draco. For example being his godfather. Someone said that Snape and Malfoy were sitting together in the movie. JKR may have asked them to put this in, despite not being in the book, for continuity purposes, if she later reveals a friendship in one of the other books. Perhaps Snape believed that Malfoy had renounced Voldemort too and that was why he was shocked to hear that Malfoy returned to Voldemort (when Harry tells them what happened when the death eaters reunite).

I do think it`s very strange that Snape does seem to like Draco considering the Death Eater thing. Another theory is the same as above but Snape has Malfoy under the illusion that he is still loyal to Voldemort and so maintains the fiendship to protect himself. If the Death Eaters found out Snape betrayed them they may attempt to punish him and so he appears to favor Draco and friends so not to arouse suspicion from Lucius and friends. In this case he may be worried because Voldemort knows that Snape betrayed him and if Lucius and Voldemort were together it wouldn`t be a great leap to think that Voldemort would tell Lucius.

I know this theory has a lot of holes. I can`t wait to find out more about the Snape and Draco relationship in future books because I believe there is something more there.

[Severely Snapped]

Originally posted by Poppy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=374493#post374493))
My personal theory might be a little out there but............. I remember reading that Snape was in a gang at school in GoF (can`t quite remember the exact quote) but I wouldn`t be suprised if Malfoy and Snape were friends at school (along with Crabbe and Goyle etc), they would have been in the same house and they are about the same age, I guess. Then they became Death Eaters together.

But I never got the impression that Snape and Malfoy were the same age. Snape is in his mid-to-late thirties; I believe Malfoy is 10-15 years older--about the same age as Arthur and Molly Weasley. And as it was Sirius Black giving Harry & Co. the lowdown on Snape's clique in school, and he didn't mention Malfoy, I doubt Malfoy was part of it. I'm sure Harry has told Sirius about his own rivalry with Draco.

Someone said that Snape and Malfoy were sitting together in the movie. JKR may have asked them to put this in, despite not being in the book, for continuity purposes, if she later reveals a friendship in one of the other books.

Perhaps this scene was inserted into the movie merely to show the contrast between Snape's and Malfoy's feelings for Draco. If you watch that scene, you'll notice that when Draco is thrown from his broom, Snape looks alarmed and rises from his seat; Malfoy merely looks disgusted. I mean, who's the daddy here? Maybe we will find out that Snape does actually care about Draco in some paternal sense (God only knows why) and that scene was a precurser to it.

[fanatic_j]

Could Snape and Narcissa Malfoy be siblings?

[Insomnia]

Severus is too smart to be tricked by someone like Draco Malfoy...

By the way, I think that sudden movement was -like Auri DeMeer said- to make Harry shut up, certainly, but he wanted to did this without others noticed. He wanted to "tell" Harry say no more... Perhaps, he didn't want any connections with his past... I think... Maybe he really finished his contacts with Death Eaters?
Severus became nervous... but, think- who wouldn't? If you are on the way to goodness and you don't want any bad remembrances... Who knows why did he REALLY do it for?

[Insomnia]

Fanatic_j, you know- I think it can't be...

Why did you think of it ?

[Barbara Kennedy]

Insomnia, if you want to add to a previous comment , please use the edit button above your name in the post. It will let you add to or change the post. Moderators do not like double and triple posting.

[kaioticgirl]

Could Severus be Draco's godfather? This has probably been discussed before in a previous thread, but Snape could see that Draco's relationship with his father is distant and strained, and want to make up for it. Kind of what Sirius does for Harry.

[FawkesBox]

That's an excellent though. Snape and Sirius are as good foils as Draco and Harry. Perhaps Draco and Harry's relationship will mirror their godfathers'- starting as enemies, later becoming grudging allies. If Snape is Draco's father, then perhaps if Lucius would die or leave home (taken back into Voldemort's fold), Snape could step up into Lucius' shoes.

[dog star]

Originally posted by Girl (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=294552#post294552))
I feel that Draco and snape are alot alike. Both want fame, Snape wanted the Order of Merlin while Draco wanted to be friends with the famouse Harry Potter on the first day.

Draco also seems like a youg version of Snape. Both wanting to be friends with the popular kids but when that cant the they to get them into trouble. Snape wanted to get Jamesa and his friends into trouble may times that's why he kept following they around.
Draco does the same with Harry (PS) when they tried to get the dragon out.

Maybe Draco will be like Snape and turn from his father to the good side. Like Snape I don't think that Draco could kill anyone in cold blood. When he sees what the DE are really like he will hopefuly change.
May be that's why Draco is Snape's faviorte student Draco reminds Snape of himself.


Finally, someone who agrees with me on the basis of Snape's hatred for the Marauders -- he wanted desperately to be their friend, and when he was denied what he wanted,he was hurt and embarrassed, driving him to seek revenge.

However, I don't think this aspect of Snape makes he and Draco alike. Though I *do* agree that Snape sees Draco as a younger version of himself, I don't think Draco wanted so much to "befriend the popular people" as he wanted to befriend "the famous Harry Potter." Draco isn't a social outcast...IMO, Snape is, which makes their situations slightly different. Nevertheless, I do think Snape is seeing the same pattern in Draco that he fell into, more than likely being a member of a powerful, pureblooded wizarding family with a history of Dark wizards who expects their descendents to follow in their footsteps, or else. This is what I think will make Snape and Draco's relationship interesting in future books, as I'm wagering Snape will try in some way to save Draco from making his same mistakes all over again.

[Insomnia]

Sorry, then.

Barbara, but I meant it in my signature. I do not know HOW to do this...

[jordmundt6]

But Severus generally isn't that petty. Draco has shown himself fully capable of it though there appear to be other forces at work in him too, but Snape seems to be something of a different creature from Draco. The one thing that no one has ever explained to me, especially these Draco-is-just-like-Snape theorists, is why, if they are so similar, has Severus Snape never said word one about Lily Evans, the bossy Mudblood know-it-all who served almost as the Marauders' conscience, but Draco has a blood-lust when it comes to Hermione (he wants to see her dead, better yet, he wants to finish her off himself).

[sanchou]

I think Malfoy is similar to Snape, because both of them are smart and mordacious.

Quote from Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire
'I think they've both got a point,' said Sirius, looking thoughtfully at Ron and Hermione, 'Ever since I found out Snape was teaching here, I've wondered thy Dumbledore hired him. Snape'salways been fascinated by the Dark Arts, he was famous for it at school. Slimy, oily, greasy-haired kid, he was,' Sirius added, and Harry and Ron grinned at each other. 'Snape knew more curses then he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year and he was part of a gang of Slytherins tho nearly all turned out be Death Eaters.'

[McKinnon02]

It's possible Draco may be using reverse psychology to try to get Hermione to like him. ("If I play hard to get, she'll try all the harder to have me.") Hermione is growing up, and from what I saw in GOF she is starting to care more about her appearance (letting her teeth get shrunk, doing her hair for the ball, etc). Draco has it instilled in him that mudbloods are something to be hated, true, but I think he's starting to see some things in his father that he may not like. He wasn't so quick to support his father when the accusation was thrown that his Dad was cavorting in a mask at the World Cup. And whoever said it was a thin line between love and hatred is right. Draco does have a blood lust for Hermione. It's possible he may just simply have lust as well. Hormones may also have something to do with it. I'm probably completely wrong, but it is possible. :)

[jordmundt6]

Huh, McKinnon--I don't think you and I are reading the same text. Draco gave the perfect Death-Eater response at the QWC. "Well, if he were, I would be likely to tell you, would I?" Which was a tacit admission with a couple layers of plausible deniability thrown in. And he was really enjoying his veiw of the suffering. He looks like he's growing up more and more like Papa. Hormones do play a role (in possibly repressed attraction) but I hesitate (in fact, I LOATHE) to consider the thin line between love and hate.

[InvasionOfTheGuru4]

Here is my theory:

Maybe Snape will pretend to betray Dumbledore so everyone thinks he is working for Voldemort, but actually still be working for Dumbledore. Sort of like a double agent.

Well, it's just a thought! :smile:

[Severely Snapped]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=378066#post378066))
But Severus generally isn't that petty. Draco has shown himself fully capable of it though there appear to be other forces at work in him too, but Snape seems to be something of a different creature from Draco. The one thing that no one has ever explained to me, especially these Draco-is-just-like-Snape theorists, is why, if they are so similar, has Severus Snape never said word one about Lily Evans, the bossy Mudblood know-it-all who served almost as the Marauders' conscience, but Draco has a blood-lust when it comes to Hermione (he wants to see her dead, better yet, he wants to finish her off himself).


Hallelujah! Someone else who does NOT think Draco Malfoy is just a shorter, blonder version of Severus Snape.

[sends jordmundt6 a big platonic :smooch: ]

[jordmundt6]

Yeah, I've been quietly raising a couple of questions about that for awhile now. In its way this trait for trait comparison is as bad as lumping Neville Longbottom and Peter Pettigrew together (for the opposite reason. In Longbottom/Pettigrew, Neville has all the good. In Malfoy/Snape, Snape has good qualities totally absent in Malfoy).

[Moonstone]

Quite right. Draco has shown no redemptive qualities thus far. Given what is known of him now, I can not see Draco putting himself on the line "at great personal risk" for anyone else. He is not a mini-Snape. If anything, he is a shadow of his father.

[Insomnia]

Honestly Moonstone, really deplorable shadow this is... Certainly that Draco is not mini-Snape. He is very far to become one.

Ps: I thought that with name like his (Draco), his character will be more... uhm... effective.

[vagos]

i think he will come out of his father shadow and do sth.not a mini-snape but at least thinkand decide sth on his own..

[Marcy]

I honestly don't see any redemption for Draco. It would be too cheesy for both Snape and Draco to be redeemed...

[Angora]

You know, it occurs to me that Lucius doesn't seem to like Draco all that much. Maybe instead of wanting him to be a DE and trusting him with all these family secrets, he'll actually decide one day that Draco is a big disappointment and needs to take a long walk off a short ledge.

One thing that struck me in OotP was that Draco felt perfectly comfortable barging into Snape's office without knocking. I don't think that's necessarily because he's Draco, but Snape might have a more forgiving relationship with his own house, since he would be doing all the HoH stuff with them all the time.

As far as I remember, we've never seen Snape and Lucius talk to each other, but the "lap dog" thing has me thinking...

[UselessCharmMaster]

Well, Draco is a prefect, and I think a prefect has much more to do with his Head of the House than a normal student.

[Revolution]

I have this feeling that Snape doesn't like Draco at all. Suppose Lucius knew that Snape had turned to Dumbledore's side, and then told Draco, then Lucius must have somehow intimidated Snape in acting all nice to Draco, so that he doesn't get into trouble at school all that much. Snape is being nice to Draco, because he is scared of Lucius.

[SSdraken]

i kinda agree with you Revolution... Snape is a member of the Order Of The Pheonix, so despite what he thinks of Harry, we know he can be trusted (well, if you don't think so, then you must think Dumbledore is lying, which I think is highly unlikely). The chances are that Snape doesn't like Malfoy because his father is on the other side ... it doesn't take a genius to work out that Snape must know about Lucius and the cock and bull story he made up after the war ended.

[aliceband]

I suppose the DE's mustn't know he's in the Order b/c nobody does why would the DE's know. The DE's think he's on their side b/c he shows up everytime he's called (altough i'm not 100% sure that is Snapes main duty) Dumbledore trusts snape and so does every body else. Just b/c he's a mean guy doesn't mean he can't be trusted. I mean look at what harry saw of his past. Anyone who has memories of relationships like that would have social problems.

[Noorani]

Personally, the only reasons I think Snape favours Draco is because
1. They both have the same prejudice against muggle-borns (Snape’s dislike of Hermione despite her intelligence, Draco’s constant bickering with Herm, calling her a mudblood etc.)
2. Snape is head of Slytherin – favours Slytherin pupils in general
3. The Malfoys are a renowned pure-blood family so to give Draco trouble in general would be unwise
4. I think Lucius and Snape know each other were Death Eaters (Voldy was quite happy to name Lucius in GoF when he didn’t name some of the others, and I doubt this would have been the first time he called Lucius by name in front of all the DEs. Karkaroff knew Snape was a DE so why wouldn’t Lucius?). Therefore, Snape would have knowledge of who Draco was before he even attended Hogwarts, and being the son of a man he must have been friendly with at some point, well of course Snape would show him favouritism.

I doubt Snape actually favours Draco because of who Draco is and the type of boy he is, I think it’s more to do with Snape’s connection with the Malfoy family, and their mutual dislike of people like Harry, Hermionie, Neville etc.

For some reason I really doubt that Draco would know about Snape being a DE though I am convinced he knows his father is. . . I think its because of the way Draco reacts to Harry at the end of GoF when he tells him he’s picked the losing side. . .and because Draco calls Voldemort ‘The Dark Lord’ . . . he must have picked up on that stuff from his father! But from CoS I doubt Lucius particularly likes his son, I get the impression he felt the need to have a child simply to carry on the Malfoy line. The Malfoys don’t strike me as overly keen on family bonding, so I don’t see why Lucius would bother telling Draco anything majorly important about Voldemort and his plans, just enough so that Draco knows to be on Voldy’s side. Draco probably suspects Snape of being a Death Eater, but its doubtful Lucius would have confirmed anything for him – telling Draco some of the dark side’s most intimate secrets would not be the wisest thing to do, he’s only a kid.

[Briar Filth]

This is just a thought that i have been pondering over for a while.

Wouldn't most of the Death Eaters know that Snape is a spy for Dumbledore?

Therefore Lucius Malfoy knows so wouldn't he tell his son, Draco as he tells him pretty much everything?
But for some reason, Draco thinks Snape is the best teacher. Why is this so?

Maybe I am reading into it too much and got it totally wrong, or maybe Snape is still on Voldemort's side.

What do you guys think?

I've got it into my head that Snape is Draco's godfather. Dunno where the heck I got the idea from. I suppose I wanted to complete the symmetry - Sirius hates Snape. Harry hates Draco. Sirius is Harry's godfather.... Snape is Draco's godfather?

*shrugs* meh, just one of my silly ideas

[Angeltiger121]

I've got it into my head that Snape is Draco's godfather. Dunno where the heck I got the idea from. I suppose I wanted to complete the symmetry - Sirius hates Snape. Harry hates Draco. Sirius is Harry's godfather.... Snape is Draco's godfather?

*shrugs* meh, just one of my silly ideas

wow, what an idea, you must think hard. I never thought of that before. Thanks, now I'm going to be going everywhere telling people that Snape is Draco's Godfather, which wouldn't really suprise me at all, but still, it would be fun if it was true. I like the way you think. :tu:

[Briar Filth]

Wow! Someone thought my idea was good!! :p

[tao]

No it´s not logical that Snape is Dracos godfather. In CoS Draco tells Snape that he will "tell father that you are the best teacher" so that Lucius will help Snape to become Headmaster. How could Draco say something like that if he knew that the two of them are best friends anyway. (just to get on Seamus´nerves?)
Therfor I assume that Draco didn´t know Snape before school.

I think that Snape truly likes Draco because he is a quite succesfull Slytherin and very respectfull toward Snape. (very, very respectfull - bootlicker)
I doubt he still honestly likes Lucius, who is a disgusting Nazi, but Snape has surly no negative predjudices against innocent Slytherin boys, who come from dark magic families.

[LilCubanita67]

The only reason why Draco likes Snape is because they both have the common hobby of torturing Harry. And Snape being Draco's godfather does seem pretty accurate. By Snape being Draco's godfather, Lucius probably thought that his son would become very successful in Hogwarts and give him more "connections" in the wizarding world.

[Angeltiger121]

I see alot of you today Briar Filth!

[tao]

Come on LilCubanita67, the books are from Harrys PoV that doesn´t mean that the characters in the books do, think and feel everything just because of Harry.
Btw. I don´t know when Draco was baptised but when Draco was born Snape was a 21 year old DE ans had nothing to do with Hogwarts.

[Briar Filth]

Btw. I don´t know when Draco was baptised but when Draco was born Snape was a 21 year old DE ans had nothing to do with Hogwarts.

Good point, but still, Lucius and Snape would have known each other, being Death Eaters and attending Hogwarts together and all (albeit they were in different years). I wonder if Lucius saw how Snape was being bullied by James and co. and decided to take him under his wing? Perhaps that's why Snape is still (seemingly) happy bumchums with Lucius.

[tao]

I am sure that Snape and Lucius were friends at that time and that Lucius thinks they still are. I am only saying that Draco didn´t know that at least until CoS. (because he said he would tell his father that Snape is the best teacher)

It´s an interesting question you raise if Snape feels some gratitude towards Lucius and that could be another reason for him to favor Draco so much.
This contradicts my first post where I said I doubt that Snape really likes Lucius anymore. It is possible that he emotionally likes Lucius although he knows that Lucius is on the side of what Snape sees as absolutly evil.

[Briar Filth]

I think it would be a nice, and somewhat relieving if this really did happen. It would make both Snape and Lucius seem more human.