CoSForums Archive - Why doesn't Harry have Halloween issues?

hippogryph

January 20th, 2003, 9:36 pm

I don't really associate all of these events with Halloween per se. I think that it is just part of JKR's pattern to tell what part of the school year we are at. All of the books fall into these parts.

[list=1]
The summer
Journey to Hogwarts
Halloween
Christmas
Spring - event varies (Valentines day/Hogmead weekend)
End of Term - Exams etc.
Train trip home
[/list=1]

Halloween is the best place to introduce new dangers. I think that he would more likely have end of term issues. That's when he always has to confront Voldemort or whatever enemy is after him.

Weatherby

January 20th, 2003, 9:36 pm

Perhaps Harry isn't superstitious?
I'm with rela00's idea. I'd hide in my room with some Smith cds unless I feared the bad luck would harm my cd player. :)

rela00

January 20th, 2003, 9:39 pm

Now that WOULD be bad! Life without music! AGHHHHHHH

sierra_sand

January 20th, 2003, 10:48 pm

Heres another question. Does Harry know that his parents died on halloween? Has anybody told him that detail? Well maybe they studied it in school or something.Man that would be so weird wouldnt it? Learning about yourself in school.

Puffskein

January 20th, 2003, 11:39 pm

If he doesn't know, that would explain the date's lack of significance for him. Part of the reason why dramatic things happen at Halloween is that the feast is a good diversion for anyone planning dirty deeds.

Camo

January 21st, 2003, 12:48 am

I thought he would have known about his parents dying on Halloween. But he doesn't seem to grieve for his parents at all.

nimbus2006

January 21st, 2003, 12:53 am

I am sure that Harry grieves for his parents a thousand times a day, he just doesn't show it outwardly, so JK doesn't write it into the books. (that often)

I don't recall Harry ever being told about it either, not even in the shrieking shack account by Sirius. Maybe DD will tell him after the "everything" line we heard.

dr_strangelove

January 21st, 2003, 8:33 am

even if he did know. some people don't take dates too seriously, while others (myself included) celebrate/mourn anniversaries. perhaps the date isn't as important...

also, halloween is an important date to magic users. perhaps the importance of the day magically outweighs it somehow?

roz

January 21st, 2003, 1:40 pm

I don't think that Harry does grieve for his parents, as such. They died when he was so young that he can hardly remember them. Therefore he can't really miss them specifically. I think that he does morn the absence of parents though. That's why Mrs Weasly is so important. Halloween might remind him of what he is missing but I don't think that that is going to make him dread the day.

Some of the other events however might lead him to ask himself (or more likely Hermione as I think she is much more likely to spot the connection) "what is going to happen this year?". Though since most of the events weren't aimed at him specifically I don't think that he is going to feel that the bad karma is something connected to him personally.

Roz.

stellaluna

January 21st, 2003, 2:12 pm

Interesting, I never really thought about that... Maybe Harry just doesn't realizes them either... But I'll give you my thoughts, that deny your theory almost...

-The troll: I think it's not such a big thing to the kids (sorry, I'm getting bored of writing the three names of them everytime) anymore, they handed that and never thought about it anymore after PS.

-Someone petrified: Mrs Norris is ok again by now, the chamber is closed again, everythings ok there...

-Sirius in Gryffindor: Sirius turned out to be good, that topic's ok too.

-Harry's name in the GoF: Maybe that could turn out as a bad memory, but it's not so fixed on the date, now that Voldie is risen again.

-Nearly-Headless-Nick: Maybe that's sad, but Harrry never knew him alive, and just takes it for granted, that he's dead.

-Lily+James: As some of you have mentioned before, maybe Harry doesnt know that they died on Halloween. But, I stumbled about this also: Why did he never ask if he didn't know? imagine, your parents are dead, I would want to know everything about it....weird.

That was me again, the Party Pooper.

Sinistra

January 21st, 2003, 3:04 pm

Harry hasn't asked because he was raised with the idea, "Don't ask questions." And when he did ask Dumbledore, he was put off until he was older and better able to understand.

Harry has been in the wizarding world a few years now, and he has faced Voldemort directly and lived. Harry may have gained a few things from that and so will be better able to ask questions, and keep asking, even when he doesn't get a satisfactory answer.

Y'know, he has learned as much from Snape as anyone else about his parents. Scarey thought, that.

As to Halloween issues, I agree with the end-of-term issues more. Halloween just sets things up, the climax comes at the end of the school year.

daredevildiver13

January 21st, 2003, 8:17 pm

Hagrid tells Harry that his parents died on Halloween in book one. i do see your point that his issues are bigger on the end of term, i just find it strange that he never associates the date with the death of his parents. perhaps there is a reason why j.k. rowling made their death and voldemot's downfall on halloween.

Essbee

January 21st, 2003, 8:25 pm

I'm not sure thatHarry would have issues with it being Halowe'en per se, but I do think that he'd notice and start thinking 'right, what's gonna happen this year then?'

JK, on theother hand, probably has a good reason for putting stuff happening on hallowe'en There is no other erason for doing it. Any date could have done for those things, but yet she picks the 31st October.

I read something someone posted somewhere once about the Eves. Midsummer eve is Harry's birthday, Hallowe'en, there were others too, but I don't remember all too well. Lots of Wiccan holidays at any rate. Perhaps that has a significance?

Laura Patil

January 21st, 2003, 8:27 pm

You know, I really wondered that... I also wondered about the "What's going to happen this year" thing.

I'm surprised Harry hasn't noticed a connection.

HPButterfly

January 21st, 2003, 8:33 pm

I seriously don't think that Harry's wizard world's witches have anything to do with Wicca. They're just called witches because... what else would you call women who do magic?

I agree with the folks that say Harry doesn't grieve for his parents because he didn't know them. Everything he does know about them is filtered, and if he has any strong feelings about anything surrounding his parents' deaths, it's that. He did see them in the Mirror of Erised though... I think that was just about wondering and wishing, you know? I believe it's possible to miss someone or something without grieving for them/it and that's his situation.

Essbee

January 21st, 2003, 8:46 pm

Harry doesn't grieve for them as such, he grieves for the fact that he never met them. Which isn't quite the same thing.

Harry might not have anything to do with Wicca, but that doesn't mean that the eves aren't significant in some way.

Mind you, I dunno why I'm defending the idea - I don't even *understand* it let alone want to push it!

daredevildiver13

January 21st, 2003, 8:51 pm

It wouldn't surprise me if JK Rowling did have Wiccan traditions in mind when developing this story. It is clear that she has done a lot of research on various traditions and legends that are evident throughout the books. (Greek mythology, legends, etc.)

She's Crafty

January 21st, 2003, 10:46 pm

I always thought the magical pratitices featured in HP were concerned with alchemy and not Wicca, but i could be wrong.

Knight

January 21st, 2003, 11:27 pm

Harry does know. Hagrid told him the first time they met.

Maybe Harry is repressing. He doesn't seem to ask questions about his parents, the rest of his family, his father's occupation, his family's role in the fight against Voldemort, none of that stuff. So maybe he chooses (unwisely perhaps) to ignore it all.

GodricSlytherin

January 21st, 2003, 11:34 pm

Something must be realted to this day. And well. His parents died this day also right? So. He wasn't really scarred very badly by any of it. HArry is able to handle it. Without letting us know his true feelings. AT times I think he does become some kind of hermit crab.

HbAznKyootie

January 22nd, 2003, 2:09 am

well, im guessing that halloween is a very magical day, and JK wanted to empasize that.

dr_strangelove

January 22nd, 2003, 6:34 am

i wouldn't say that harry potter is more closely related to witchcraft/paganism or alchemy or anything like that. to be honest, a lot of the magic is just based on stereotypes about magic in general, like broom flying and those horrible robes, and halloween goes along with those stereotypes... yes, rowling has taken inspiration from many religious and legendary sources, and halloween comes up in every story about magic :)

stellaluna

January 22nd, 2003, 1:53 pm

Wise words, Doctor. I totally agree.

Puffskein

January 22nd, 2003, 9:24 pm

About Harry's feelings for his parents: I think he doesn't grieve at Halloween because he can't remember the actual event well enough to associate it with that date. He certainly feels a void in his life due to not having parents/family, hence his reaction to the mirror, Mrs Weasley's hug, etc. He also seems to have an understandably idealised view of his parents - eg his outburst at Snape in POA. How does Harry know that his father didn't strut?

daredevildiver13

January 22nd, 2003, 9:27 pm

I get that, but I constantly see concepts of other literature and traditions in Potter. For example, just the other day I found out that in Sophocles' Oedipus Rex, a sphinx is at Thebes asking a riddle of Thebes. I remembered the Goblet of Fire at once. Things like this happen all the time.

harryton

January 22nd, 2003, 9:29 pm

what do yu guys think will happen this halloween?

Animagi Girl

January 22nd, 2003, 9:45 pm

Maybe Halloween has some kind of significance that we dont understand yet?

HbAznKyootie

January 22nd, 2003, 11:06 pm

maybe this halloween will be the day that dumbledore explained everything to harry.

daredevildiver13

January 22nd, 2003, 11:34 pm

I hope so!

hippogryph

January 23rd, 2003, 6:22 am

Halloween or all Hallows eve is supposed to be one of the most magical days of the year, especially for dark magic. The next day is All saints day, followed by all souls day. On these days, the holy rights were supposed to put spirits and ghosts to rest. Because of this, All Hallows eve was a time for evil spirits to go wild. A last ditch party so to speak.

I think that we may find that in the Potter world, Halloween is a particularly auspicious day to do dark magic. Thus it is a good day for Voldemort to choose to kill the Potters. I wouldn't be surprised to find that certain curses are stronger on Halloween, just as some are rumored to be at the dark of the moon or some such.

If there is any significance to the date other than simply a plot device, as I stated earlier, I think that it would be this.

symplet

January 23rd, 2003, 8:09 pm

That's an excellent point hippogryph!

Here's another thing that has been bugging me: if Harry hasn't made the connection that disturbing events always happen on Hallowe'en, why hasn't Hermione made that connection?

daredevildiver13

January 23rd, 2003, 8:25 pm

I like the info! I think that maybe Hermione hasn't made the connection because it will end up being an important point that has to do with the plot (like maybe it has to do with why voldemort killed the Potters that day). I hope it comes up later inthe books.

Katze

January 23rd, 2003, 8:34 pm

I think the kids have caught on, but I think people are used to things happening. I'm sure more stuff will happen as well, and perhaps they'll just outlaw Halloween?

I think a better question - why doesn't Harry have issues period? With losing his parents, having someone after him, having to live the people like the Durselys, spending most of his life a cupboard, I'd assume that he'd have greater problems than just a fear of Halloween! :)

stellaluna

January 25th, 2003, 9:39 am

Originally posted by daredevildiver13
I like the info! I think that maybe Hermione hasn't made the connection because it will end up being an important point that has to do with the plot (like maybe it has to do with why voldemort killed the Potters that day). I hope it comes up later inthe books.

Yes, maybe we've found an important point of the next plot (book 5)!!!!
Maybe Voldemort wil again be up to np good and try to kill Harrry or something in the way... :huh:

Sinistra

January 25th, 2003, 12:29 pm

Traditionally Halloween is the day when the veils between the worlds are thinnest. So people can communicate with the dead, and magic is supposedly easier and/or more powerful. There is a Mexican "holiday" or festival, dia de los muertos--day of the dead when people have little sugar skulls and they set up memorials to beloved dead. This time of the year has been "celebrated" in many cultures similarly throughout time and location. It has been demonized by the Catholic church in the Middle Ages and later, as an "evil" day, but it is not inherently evil.

Anyhow Halloween is certainly a "magical" day, which is probably why it is celebrated at Hogwarts.

As to Harry having issues in general, there was a thread on the old mugglenet board about that. Harry is certainly lucky to have emerged a whole integrated personality considering his treatment by the Dursleys. His first 15 months with loving happy parents was instrumental in keeping him whole and able to be normal. But he does have issues with secrecy, and not asking questions when another person would be more open and inquisitive. Harry wonders about things, but he keeps an awful lot to himself. He is also somewhat closed emotionally, in that he keeps his feelings close to his chest, as it were. This may become interesting with the "romance" issues rumored to be coming up in book 5.

stellaluna

January 25th, 2003, 1:01 pm

Sinistra, everytime you post I sit here with an open mouth and just gaze at the monitor... you must think a lot about this things... :bow:

Sinistra

January 25th, 2003, 1:19 pm

Well, :o thanks, but yeah, I do think about this stuff a lot. Part of it comes from having been on the discussion boards for over a year. That and a job environment which is like living at the Dursleys, so I daydream and think about HP a lot to get my mind off it. I have a job which I can be working effectively and still daydreaming and staring off in space also. As long as I'm staring at the TV screen (I work in TV) I am effectively working. Years of experience. And, no it's not all fun. I watch almost no TV at home, so I have lots of time to think about HP and read and post etc.

But back to topic, I wonder if Harry and Co. will finally start anticipating what will come this year. They certainly know something is coming, and they have a pattern. But JKR said this book would be different, so maybe that pattern will be broken. June 21st can't come soon enough!

Essbee

January 25th, 2003, 1:27 pm

Harry the Hermit crab... there's a funny thought!

This Hallowe'en... um... perhaps someone will get abducted?

daredevildiver13

January 25th, 2003, 6:03 pm

Maybe JKR will change the pattern when we least expect it.

Puffskein

January 25th, 2003, 9:50 pm

There's a discussion somewhere in the Great Hall called "Why is Harry so sane?" that discusses why he doesn't have issues.

stellaluna

January 26th, 2003, 3:48 pm

Maybe the pattern-thing is more meant in puncto writing style. You know, till now it all had this used rythm: summer-holidays, beginning of school, christmas....
Maybe this rythm will change. Got me? (The problm is, I don't believe this myself; just to give yo a thought.):huh:

1MelissaPotter

January 26th, 2003, 4:02 pm

I thought Harry's parents died on is birthday.
In another thread I read it said something about Halloween, Harry's birthday, Feb 1. and some other day that were also significant in the wicka calender. They were all on Eves of important days. That might have something to do with it.

stellaluna

January 26th, 2003, 4:09 pm

Didn't you read it? It was posted in this thread before. Harry's birthday is on July 31th. And "wicka" you should spell with double c.
(Sorry, I think it sounded more offending than it should)

LizardLaugh

January 26th, 2003, 5:36 pm

These so called 'wiccan' dates are old, old, old. My understanding is that modern wicca is a sort of reconstruction of an extremely old religion that was pretty much eradicated by Christianity (by both conversion and presecution). Still, those dates (as they are tied to the change of seasons and agriculture) are pretty universal and you find they have significance not just for Wiccans, but for Christians and the ancient Greeks and Romans too. These traditions are ancient. Probably going back to paleolithic culture (think Stone Henge).

daredevildiver13

January 26th, 2003, 7:06 pm

maybe harry was destined to be the one to "stump" voldemort because he was born on that day.

stellaluna

January 27th, 2003, 6:54 pm

Originally posted by LizardLaugh
These so called 'wiccan' dates are old, old, old. My understanding is that modern wicca is a sort of reconstruction of an extremely old religion that was pretty much eradicated by Christianity (by both conversion and presecution). Still, those dates (as they are tied to the change of seasons and agriculture) are pretty universal and you find they have significance not just for Wiccans, but for Christians and the ancient Greeks and Romans too. These traditions are ancient. Probably going back to paleolithic culture (think Stone Henge).

Yes, but we say wiccan dates cause they are the ones that are celebrating them today. Or have you ever heard of a catholic celebrating Mabon?
Mhm, another word for it.... we could say ancient magic days. Mhm, what do you think?

LizardLaugh

January 28th, 2003, 3:34 am

I didn't mean any offense, or that they should be called anything else (true, the wiccans are probably the only ones celebrating most/all of the se days). Call them whatever. My point was that (oh wait, what was my point?) oh yea.... that the dates aren't strictly tied to wicca. The day of the dead is a huge outside of wicca. So are the Solistces. Beltane. Equinoxes. . It is no accident the Christian and Jewish feasts fall when they do (keep in mind that there are others modern Christians no longer celebrate). The HP witchcraft/magic is not related to wicca, at least I don't think. It's ancient magic ;) The dates precede modern wicca, which itself is based on an extremely ancient religion based in the change in seasons as they related to agriculture that was around in pre-Christian/pre-Roman Europe. I think it is useful to look at the wiccan calendar for clues and things, I just wanted to point out that they are based on something much deeper -- the change of seasons. Even the ancient peoples of Central America, China and Egypt had calendars and thigns that marked these dates as significant in some way. It makes a great deal of sense that ancient peoples would base their relgion around their livlihood. I do think, however, wiccan calendars and things are good sources. To their credit, they have tried to revive this history that was all but obliterated.

stellaluna

January 28th, 2003, 2:19 pm

Yup! :yup: Everything you say ;D I didn't take it as an offence and I can understand your points...

kawaiigal

April 5th, 2004, 11:41 pm

has anyone noticed that Harry is never sad on Halloween when he knows its the day his parents died...

ErickGama

April 5th, 2004, 11:47 pm

Yeah, he just feels ok with his friends in the Great Hall, and in the Common Room. And they also do fun stuff, besides homework!

Pegasus

April 5th, 2004, 11:49 pm

I can never remember the exact date my brother died, although I know it was in January. It's a memory block, and an advantageous one in some ways--the rest of my family gets depressed that day. Harry doesn't have a memory block--he just has no memory of it. He was too little to connect his parents' death with a certain date.

ErickGama

April 5th, 2004, 11:54 pm

Yeah, I think you are right Pegasus. Maybe because he didn't saw his parents die that's why!

ravenclaw02

April 6th, 2004, 12:27 am

I always found that interesting as well. Maybe because there's always something going on (ie: the feast, Hogsmeade trips, etc) on Halloween, or maybe because his parents' death date is rarely mentioned.

BTW, didn't Nearly Headless Nick also die on Halloween? Think there's a connection there? Is there another thread on this? It's interesting that Harry could go to a Deathday party on the day that his parents died and not even think about them ... hmmm...

Also, :welcome: kawaiigal!!!

OrioCookie

April 6th, 2004, 12:31 am

The idea that his parents died is big to Harry, but when it happened isn't that crucial in itself to him. And it's Hallowe'en, everybody else is extra happy.

Cho Chang 26

April 6th, 2004, 3:14 am

Harry has never been very - uh - unhappy during his halloweens. I agree with OrioCookie. I don't think that when it happened is crucial to Harry at all.

koli

April 6th, 2004, 5:13 am

i read somewhere that halloween is also when harry was concieved... halloween sure is a big night for a lot of things lol.

mirandam

April 6th, 2004, 5:32 am

It would be exactly 9 months till July 31st. I don't think that Harry associates Halloween with these tragic events though. Yes, it was also the date of Nearly Headless Nicks death. I think that because of it being Halloween that things are more likely to happen in the wizarding world. I think the Harry does grieve his parents death, but with all the excitement at Hogwarts on this day he probrably gets all caught up in the fun with the rest of the students.

twinsrule

April 6th, 2004, 5:39 am

I do think that this is some sort of repression. We know Harry has learned about his parents as the series has advanced. He was told when the events occured, and I don't doubt that Harry has relived in his mind over and over the things that has been told to him about his family. He has even heard his father and mother in their final moments fighting off Voldemort. I think his not recognizing Halloween is symptomatic of the lack of information and knowledge Harry has been allowed to have for his parents. The only things Harry knows about his parents are those pieces of information given (either accidentally or intentionally) to him (ex: Hagrid tells Harry about his parents, being told his dad played Quidditch, he learns about his godfather accidentally, information from the penseive (sp?), his dreams/visions, the Mirror of Erised). The only time Harry asks specific questions about his parents is when he asks Sirius in OOTP about his dad's cockiness. He's grown up never really knowing his parents, never being allowed to ask about them, and never really mourn them. I think as time goes on, as he learns more about them and how much they loved and sacrificed for him, and maybe if he avenges/comes to terms with their murderer- Voldemort (the elusive death prophesy), he will be allowed to have a more emotional, vulnerable connection to them and their deaths. We might see him acknowledge Halloween at a later time. He really needs something to mourn other than the iconic figures of his parents.

On another note, I think that the actual day of Halloween probably has some importance. JKR does not repeat things (including dates) unless they have some sort of significance.

Lanya Celebrian

April 6th, 2004, 5:45 am

Don't you think its such a coincidence? I mean JKR's birthday is the same day as Harry's... Do you really think JKR thought about that 9 months thing? I heard from my teacher that scientifically speaking, they don't measure it through months anymore. They do weeks I think... Aside from that Halloween is quite popular throughout the book ^_^;

strwznbrry

April 6th, 2004, 5:51 am

I'm inclined to agree with those who say that Harry doesn't know that that was the day they were killed. As for key things happening on Halloween I just don't think that its as noticeable to Harry that things are happening on this day specifically because stuff happens to him all year long.

Lupin_Lady

April 7th, 2004, 8:24 am

-Harry's parents died
-Nearly Headless Nick died
-Quirell let the troll in
-Someone was petrified
-Sirius snuck into Gryffindor
-Harry's name was drawn from the Goblet

You have titled this thread Why doesn't Harry have Halloween issudes- well look at the list, he does have issues...
They all affected him, in deeper ways than he has shown. Perhaps he supresses now. He does suppress a lot.
And everything that has occured on Halloween has come back to bite Harry in the butt...

Good pick up mate. :tu:

Inkheart7890

April 9th, 2004, 1:02 am

I don't think Harry knows when his parents died

dobby_rocks

April 9th, 2004, 10:21 pm

It be strange that he didnt know, surely he would know i mean then again he was never permitted to ask questions. Its intresting that he was born July 31 and James and Lily parisehd on Oct 31 on the day he turned 15 months old

CRH_Ravenclaw

April 10th, 2004, 12:15 am

It is quite interesing isn't it, that many terrible things happened on Halloween. I think that Harry has yet to notice that. Though I think that JKR did that on purpose because, you know, Halloween is supposed to be a scary day.

Lanc

April 10th, 2004, 12:29 am

I don't think Harry knows when his parents died

Didn't Hagrid tell Harry that Voldemort showed up at his parents house on Halloween? While Harry might have forgotten the date of his parents death (something I consider unlikely), I'm sure he has been told.

RosePetal4ever

April 10th, 2004, 2:00 pm

To tell you the truth, I don't think that Harry knows his parents died on Halloween. Did the Dumbledude actually tell him? I never read about him knowing anything about it. And if he doesn't...why didn't anyone tell him? Everyone is keeping so much from him.

Discordia

April 10th, 2004, 2:19 pm

Maybe part of the reason is that Harry never seems to really make connections himself unless someone starts to spell it out for him. He could spend his entire time trying to learn his ABC's and not realize that they were alphabet until someone told him. I'm not saying the boy is stupid or anything but he probably hasn't even regitered it in his mind. You don't miss what you've never had and can't remember and for Harry he's just always had to face the fact that his parents were dead and he could barely remember them. Their death's didn't really affect him as much as Sirius's but that doesn't mean he loves them any less of course but it means that he's just had an easier time of living with his parent's death.

RosePetal4ever

April 10th, 2004, 3:05 pm

I just thought of something else as well. Wouldn't of coming to the Wizarding World and finding out you know nothing about your parents make you mourn for them? It doesn't matter if it's been along time and he was able to get over it! He knows nothing about them! AT ALL! Then why isn't asking questions anymore?

------------------

name: RosePetal4ever

age: 16

Location: Missouri, U.S.A.

Hair: Brown

Eyes: Brown

House: not known yet (go to virtualhogwarts.net)

Year: Will be in 1st

ravenclawgrl

April 10th, 2004, 3:48 pm

I think Harry probably does have halloween issues. Though, as we know from the past, he is not one to express his innermost feelings. If he were to get upset, he would go through his life, but quietly and kind of mopey. He wouldn't hole up. Harry also could have subliminal issues with Halloween that he is not even aware of yet...

just someting to think about.

Bagshot

April 10th, 2004, 4:14 pm

I don't think that Harry thinks of the dys that all of these things happened on, he just thinks of the fact that he hasn't got parents. The fact that they've all ocurred on the same day probably hasn't crossed his mind.

I have wondered why Harry hasn't asked more questions about his parents. We know that his parents lived in Godric's Hollow but i was wondering if in the books Harry is told this. If I was him I would want to go there, or at least ask some more questions. He knows very little about his father and even less about his mother.

He has got alot to deal with but surely he would want to know more about his parents by now, maybe we'll find out more in the next book!

harryfantotheend

April 11th, 2004, 12:05 am

I wonder why Harry hasn't noticed the Halloween pattern yet. I think that if one more thing happened on Halloween he would start to realize that bad things happen on Halloween. If it were me, I think i would have noticed- i would be devistated every halloween. Maybe Harry is just sort of used to tragedy in his life that it just passes him by. If sirius had died on halloween, i would start to get suspiscous. Maybe halloween is cursed in JK's world- who knows anything for sure? Only books 6 and 7 will tell.....

Happy Posting! :)

Pegasus

April 11th, 2004, 12:37 am

Okay, I have a question. I've restarted the books from the beginning, and there's nothing in Book 1 about Harry's parents being killed on Halloween. Where does it say that? I'd look, but I've got a migraine, and it hurts to read from a book...don't ask me why the computer doesn't bother me as much.

Liselle

April 11th, 2004, 12:40 am

I think Hagrid says it in PS/SS that it was Halloween when his parents were killed. I couldn't swear to it though (hope the head feels better soon!)

Intersting question, I just don't think that he's realised it yet and maybe the fact that its probably stereotypical that a witch/wizard would have issues with Halloween.....

Masterfroggy

April 11th, 2004, 1:37 am

Philosopher’s Stone
Chapter Four keeper of the Keys

Maybe he thought he could persuade 'em... maybe he just wanted 'em outta the way. All anyone knows is, he turned up in the village where you was all living, on Halloween ten years ago. You was just a year old. He came ter yer house an' -- an' –

Hagrid suddenly pulled out a very dirty, spotted handkerchief and blew his nose with a sound like a foghorn. "Sorry," he said. "But it's that sad -- knew yer mum an' dad, an' nicer people yeh couldn't find -- anyway..."
"You-Know-Who killed 'em. An' then -- an' this is the real myst'ry of the thing -- he tried to kill you, too.

Harry has known all along that his parents were killed on Halloween and from this passage has a fair idea why.

Pegasus

April 11th, 2004, 2:10 am

Thank you. I'm not getting through Book 1 very fast this time, so I hadn't gotten there yet. I figured we had to be going on some factual statement here, or the discussion wouldn't be going on this long. I think it's nice for Harry that he doesn't dwell on that every year. How depressing would that be? As I stated early in the thread, I consider it a blessing that, although I remember every detail of what happened the day my big brother died (I was 14), I cannot, for the life of me, remember the exact date in January (memory block), and I'm the only one in my family that doesn't get horribly depressed that day.

Discordia

April 11th, 2004, 7:29 am

Well Hary can barely remember his parents and he's never really mourned their loss so to speak. He's never felt the same way about there deaths as he did serious bc the deaths of his parents didn't affect him as much since he was too young to remember. You don't miss what you've never really had.

springthing4

April 11th, 2004, 7:36 am

i don't remember reading that harry's parents died on halloween...

DarknessLight

April 11th, 2004, 4:51 pm

Now that I think about it.... everybody's right...harry doesn't know when his parents died...or did Hagrid told him when he first met him? Or does harry know but we don't know that he knows?

DarkMark90

April 11th, 2004, 7:29 pm

I don't think that Harry ever found out when his parents died, I don't think he's really given it much thought.

Also the reason Harry hasn't noticed the pattern of events on Halloween is because he spends alot of his time trying not to get killed. :)

Hermy_Granger

April 11th, 2004, 8:21 pm

DarkMark90: go and read Chapter 4 of Harry Potter 1.
Find the bit where Hagrid is talking about his parents:
Maybe he thought he could persuade 'em... maybe he just wanted 'em outta the way. All anyone knows is, he turned up in the village where you was all living, on Halloween ten years ago. You was just a year old. He came ter yer house an' -- an' –

Hagrid suddenly pulled out a very dirty, spotted handkerchief and blew his nose with a sound like a foghorn. "Sorry," he said. "But it's that sad -- knew yer mum an' dad, an' nicer people yeh couldn't find -- anyway..."
"You-Know-Who killed 'em. An' then -- an' this is the real myst'ry of the thing -- he tried to kill you, too.

MistressOfMagic

April 11th, 2004, 9:48 pm

It's hard to grieve for someone you hardly knew or remember. I'm sure he thinks about it on that day, but doesn't dwell on the fact.

I do think there is some pattern with the halloween thing. It may be because of the whole witches/wizards thing and how that is associated with halloween. That's my only guess.

harryfantotheend

April 11th, 2004, 10:05 pm

Oh, I definitely think there's something going on with the Halloween "curse." I don't think its witches and wizards in general, it appears to be just Harry. However, Nearly Headless Nick died on Halloween. Maybe there's some connection between Harry and Nick. Nah, too far fetched. But there is something going on with Halloween. No doubt in my mind. Does anybody have any ideas? Or maybe it is simply a curse? Did somebody place the curse on Halloween...or place the curse on Harry that something happens every Halloween? Or is it just an "enviornmental" thing. Who knows.... I sure dont! Do you guys have any ideas??

Happy Posting! :)

Hermywormy

September 20th, 2004, 3:01 am

Well, there's just a lot of legands and stuff on Halloween, it's supposed to be a creepy night, where suddenly the giant monster eats the little children or whatever. Here're other possible reasons what happened happened on Halloween.

-Nearly Headless Nick-The dude who chopped off his head thought it'd be a perfect night to destroy? (not sure about that one)
-Potter deaths-Voldy figured that the Potters would've been celebrating and gotten tired early and fallen asleep. less hassle.
-troll-others mentioned, no one was really paying attention to anythign but having a good time.
-petrified-distractions of plenty yet again. Not that many people would notice an innocent first year traced and going to put a message on the wall. Plus, it;d be classy to come in with a bang! :evil:
-Sirius-again, so much festivity.
-Goblet-teachers faults!

As for Harry not grieving, yeah, he probably misses them and the fact he never knew them, but people don't always think about stuff that happened so long ago. I miss my Grandma and Cousins in Michigan (I used to see them a lot, but now I live in Georgia and see them once a month), but every July 2, I don't think "This is the day I left my beloved family!" and cry my eyes out. Sometimes I get sad about it, but it was 6 years ago! There's stuff to live for today and it's easier to think about now than the past.

HermioneLuna

September 20th, 2004, 3:16 am

Did anyone else notice all the bad things that have occured on Halloween?
-Harry's parents died
-Nearly Headless Nick died
-Quirell let the troll in
-Someone was petrified
-Sirius snuck into Gryffindor
-Harry's name was drawn from the Goblet

Do you think there is a correlation with these events? I'm stumped. Furthermore, is there a correlation between Nearly Headless Nick's death and the Potter's. Why isn't Harry greived on this day?

Harry wasn't old enough to have a clear memory of his parents death. It's deep in his mind and hard for him to access. He can remember a green light and he knows what was most likely their last words because the dementors made him relive it. However Harry on his own doesn't remember much of the night his parents died.

Nearly Headless Nick died hundreds of years before Harry was even born. Why would Harry have a problem on Holloween because it's when Nearly Headless Nick died? He didn't know Nick before he started at Hogwarts and I wouldn't say they're exactly the best of friends now.

Harry, Ron, and Hermione were able to defeat the troll. The troll wasn't let in specifically to attack Harry. The troll was let in as a diversion to that Quirrell would get a chance to see what was guarding the stone without anyone spotting him. Harry fought the troll because he and Ron accidentally locked it in the bathroom with Hermione and then they had to rescue her. There were no deaths when the troll was let in and Harry won so why would Holloween upset him because of the troll?

People were petrified at different points throughout the school year, not only on Holloween. The petrified people didn't die, so why would it upset Harry now?

Sirius got into Gryffindor to get to Peter, not Harry. Harry loved Sirius and Sirius loved Harry. Sirius had no intention of hurting Harry and Harry knows this so there's no reason for him to be wary of Holloween because of that.

Harry's name may have been drawn from the goblet on Holloween, but nothing dangerous happened to him until afterwards. If anything, he should dislike the day that he fought the Hungarian Horntail, or the day he nearly drowned to make sure his friends were alright, or even more importantly, the day Voldemort rose again. His name would have come out of that goblet no matter what day it was. I don't see why he should hate Holloween for what Crouch Jr. did.

I don't see any connection at all with Nearly Headless Nick and James and Lily. One was beheaded because of a spell gone wrong. The others were murdered by Voldemort because they wouldn't let him kill their son. There's no connection.

Spirit

September 20th, 2004, 3:38 am

Maybe because... Harry isn't very reflective? I mean, in GoF, when Dumbledore mentioned Mrs. Figg, Harry didn't even think about it. Nothing clicked in his brain. Sure, he was kind of tramatized then, but I still think that Harry doesn't bother to think of things twice, which is why he has never seen that all things bad things have happened to him on Halloween.

Freeradical

September 20th, 2004, 3:39 am

I noticed someone mentioned that people are keeping info away from Harry. I've also noticed that, through the narratives, Harry has never asked.(that I could see!)

I would imagine that those not volunteering information are trying to avoid harming Harry with the information--until he asks.

As for the Halloween connection, now I'm going to have to reread the series again and see if there's the converse Beltane (May 1) series of events.

I think it would be fascinating to see what JKR has to say after the series is finished...I don't think Book 7 will conclude our questions and speculations--at least I hope not!

nextsuperhero

September 20th, 2004, 3:43 am

HermioneLuna

September 20th, 2004, 4:12 am

I always wonderd why he didn't too. It's not just that his Parents died. 1st book: He was attacked by a Troll in the girl's bathroom. 2nd: went to a death day party, framed for murduring a cat. 3rd: wasn't halloween the day that sirius black broke into the gryfindor commonroom? I don't recal any bad memories in the 4th and 5th books. But the others are just on top of his parents death. even if he doesn't remember it exactly, he still knows what it means.

He was only attacked by the troll because he was trying to find Hermione and warn her. He wasn't framed for murdering a cat. Mrs. Norris was petrified, not killed, and Harry was let off the hook for that because no second year could have accomplished that. Sirius wasn't going to hurt Harry, he was trying to get to Peter. The evidence for that is that he didn't hurt Harry and he very well could have if he wanted to.

AsKPeeVes

September 20th, 2004, 4:17 am

well Quirell letting the troll in was some what a good thing cause thats what made the trio friends.

amy_gamgee

September 20th, 2004, 4:17 am

I've wondered this myself.

I think that Harry knows his parents died on Halloween (doesn't Hagrid tell him so in SS?) but the sad fact is that Harry never knew his parents. Their death has obviously affected him, but it's not like he can remember that day clearly and thus feels tramatized every Halloween. I think that he has grieved over not having parents every day of his life, but he is also just used to not having them around. His whole life he thought they died in a car crash and I doubt he knew the date until Hagrid told him. (Remember, Harry's not one to ask many questions, especially of Aunt Petunia & Uncle Vernon) I guess what I'm getting at is that Harry misses his parents, but more importantly he mourns the fact that he never knew them. I think the mourning is more of an "overall" thing, not only a Halloween thing. I hope that makes sense.

That being said, with all the things that have happened on Halloween, I would be running for cover myself. :)