"Scars can come in handy"

[daredevildiver13]

I think Dumbledore's comment is foreshadowing. I know that the scar is Lil'y protection, but also think it will end up ultimately saving Harry or the wizarding world from Voldemort. Perhaps it is something similiar to Odysseus's scar that proved to be quite useful.

What do you think?

[Cat]

I think it's already proved to be handy. It twinges with pain whenever Voldemort is acting up.

[daredevildiver13]

Yeah, but in an interview JKR said there was more to the scar than we knew. I think there is another use.

[Yadiami]

Excuse me, but where did Dumbledore say that?

[Animagi Girl]

I think that there is more to Harry's scar than we know about.

[daredevildiver13]

Dumbledore says so on page 15 of book 1.

[ilovelifex1000]

Yeah, I wouldn't be suprised if there was a thread about this, but if not what an oversight. Yeah I certainly do believe that his scar will come in handy- it already has. It warns him of Voldemorts presence and his murderous feelings. Granted it became more of a handicap than something useful, causing him great agony, but still it has its uses. Maybe it will warn him just in time of an attack or maybe something else.

[1MelissaPotter]

Harry's scar is definately useful now. Its uses will probably connect him with Voldemort some more! Maybe it will disapper when he kills Voldy, but I don't know... and I can't wait to find out.

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

I want to know if Dumbledore's scar that looks like the London Underground is going to come in handy. Dumbledore on the subway...that's almost more entertaining an image than Hagrid. :p

[daredevildiver13]

hahahahaha.......well I just thought of something.

If Voldemort tries to kill Harry again and succeeds, he might also end up killing himself because of the bond in Harry's scar. That would cause the scar to disappear and for the struggle of Voldemort vs. the wizarding community to be over.

[RJLupin]

Sort of like in "Dragonheart", the movie about the dragon with Dennis Quaid, David Thewlis, and Sean Connery as the voice of the dragon. The only way to kill the awful King (Thewlis), a Dragon Slayer and the Kings former mentor (Quaid) has to kill the dragon because the dragon and the King share a heart. The only way to kill the King is to kill the dragon. So if voldemort kills Harry the bond that he caused will kill him. Good theory daredevildiver13.

[nimbus2006]

:yup: I agree with you also daredevildiver13. I mean.. we do not know what will happen to Harry and his scar when Voldemort dies, or what would happen if Voldemort succeeded in killing Harry.
But.. because of what I read in that one interview with JK I believe that there is still more to come with the scar. Perhaps, when he wills himself to, he will be able to see Voldemort (The way he did in his dreams), connect with his thoughts, or share his 5 senses for a while.
Any other thoughts on the matter? :p

[kit]

The scar does seem to be more than Dumbledore has hinted.

If it is solely good for letting Harry know when Voldemore is nearby or feeling particularly murderous, then why does harry experience the dreams? Why can he see what Voldemort is up to.

It has to have created a major connection between Harry and Voldemort. I wonder if Harry could learn to manipulate that connection if he could continually keep an eye on Voldemort, rather than just randomly seeing things. It would be a great help to the good side knowing constantly what Voldemort was up to.

[Snowangel]

Yes, the scar seems to have some sort telepathic power. Harry's visions of Voldemort seem to stem from his scar. Thus, his scar really does bind him to Voldemort in scary yet useful ways. Clealy, the scar will have more of a role to play in the future.

[Ellen]

Just a thought on Dumbledore's scar of the London Underground. I've wondered if this isn't a small nod to the book Neverwhere. In it, London Below is a magical city coexisting with the real London or London above. Lets just say that the main character probably wishes he hadn't lost his map of the London Underground at the beginning of the book.

[Eowyn]

Originally posted by Ellen (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=169305#post169305))
Just a thought on Dumbledore's scar of the London Underground. I've wondered if this isn't a small nod to the book Neverwhere. In it, London Below is a magical city coexisting with the real London or London above. Lets just say that the main character probably wishes he hadn't lost his map of the London Underground at the beginning of the book.


Ahh, yes, Ellen, I think of Neverwhere every time I read that line. :D I wonder if JKR has read it... She seems like she'd enjoy Neil Gaiman's works. :p

[Severely Snapped]

Hmmm. Between Harry's scar and Snape's Dark Mark, it looks like Dumbledore has his own little emergency alert system!

[Elangomatt]

I definatly believe there is more to Harry's scar than we know so far. I think that Harry will learn to use his scar for the good side and tell them what Voldemort is up to. I myself have always wondered about Dumbledore's scar as well.

Any one with an American book, does it say underground in there too? or does it change it to London Subway? I am curious because it seems that book 1 had the most changes between the British version and American version. If underground was left intact in the American version as well, then maybe we are not talking about the London Subway.

When I first read the books, I had forgotten that the subway in London is called the underground, so I had interpreted underground to mean the secret magical areas of London (kinda like the underground railroad in USA during slavery).

[Eowyn]

Yes, it says Underground in both the US and UK editions.

[daredevildiver13]

Maybe Dumbledore's map is like the Maurader's map. Actually I doubt that, but it is a possibility.

[hermiones mum]

Perhaps the scar is growing in powers because Harry is learning more magical powers and is unconsciously tapping into them. Or is it that Voldemort is growing in power and so the strength of signals has been turned up.
The scar is definately tuned into Voldemort, as it didn't twinge with Crouch Jnr/moody. Could Moody in book 5 give Harry hints on how best to use the signals that he gets from his scar.
Does Voldemort have a corresponding scar on himself - is there a chance that he is tuned into Harry too?

[Merenwen Nenharma]

I was just thinking about maybe how Voldemort would die if he killed Harry because of the scar thing...well if Haryy killed Voldemort would he still die then???(assuming that is true, the bonding thing with the scar).

[Melian the Maia]

Hmmm...


I wonder what determines the shape of the scar.I mean Harry's scar is shaped like lightning and Dumbledore's scar resembles the map of the London Underground

[daredevildiver13]

Thats what I said before. Did you read it?

[crookshanks76]

Must....stop, ....too.....late....

Maybe lightning will hit the London Underground. :rotfl:

That has got to be my most pathetic attempt.....

I'm going to go ahead and stop now. Need.....sleep....:yawn:

[Jaded_Wanderer]

it didn't say voldemort had a scar in GoF, but then it says that when u survive a terrible curse u get a curse scar (or something to that effect), & seeing as voldemort survived the backfiring of his curse, maybe he does have a scar, perhaps just not in the same place has harry's?? i don't know, just thinking...well trying to lol. if he does have one though, maybe he'll be able to spy on harry & co. as well as vice versa. i don't know whether there's a physical connection (ie. one dies the other dies too) or not, but i definitely reckon there's more to everyone's scars than has been said so far.

[Jonesy]

because of the scar Harry is famous.

[Sirius Black]

I don't that Harry is only famous because of that scar. He's more famous for banishing Voldemort. But maybe Voldemort's doesn't have a scar, the idea is good, but since Voldemort got a new made body, the scar vanished. I still don't believe Voldemort used to be Tom Riddle. He's just too unreconizeable. But by all those magical transformations, he tunred like that. Snake like face.

[hermiones mum]

Originally posted by Sirius Black (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=172578#post172578))
I still don't believe Voldemort used to be Tom Riddle. He's just too unreconizeable. But by all those magical transformations, he tunred like that. Snake like face.

remember that Voldemort has done many things to become immortal, like drinking unicorn blood, drinking snake venom like mothers milk, they must affect his features. Possibly the last vestige of being human has been erased from his face.

[Sirius Black]

And since he been raised from a bodiless soul, you can't call him a human anymore. But I wonder why Lupin and Dumbledore call him Lord Voldemort. Why not just Voldemort?:??:

[Yadiami]

Sirius Black: Maybe they just got used to it, but you're right: it doesn't make much sense.

Or maybe, they're "bad ones" who truly respect their Lord and don't realize they shouldn't be saying that.
Ok, forget that :p

[Wagga Werewolf]

Good question Sirius Black - I have often wondered that. They are some of the few not afraid to use the name Voldemort (not You-Know-Who), so why attach such a mark of respect to his name? It seems out of character for both Lupin & Dumbledore....so there must be something more to it than that! But what? I can't think of any other Lord's in the series? Even the other Dark Wizard just seems to be called Grindelwald...

[Halo Demornay]

What if Harry's scar is the only thing known to exist that can block the Avada Kedavra curse? Sure, Harry can be tortured. But CAN he die? I'm not so sure... he's had plenty of opportunities to die, but something is keeping him alive.

[Snowangel]

Well, I think Harry can definetly be killed. He's been sort of lucky so far and he has also got really good instincts so he's been able to protect himself. But, mostly, he seems to be very fortunate. Look at the fourth book, he is able to stay alive because his wand is the "brother" of Voldemort's wand. Now, I guess it's interesting that Harry's wand is attached to Voldemort's. Why is this the case? This is another question that I'm interested in (sorry to go off track there for a moment).

[Moonlight]

Because he was very powerful, evil, but super powerful.
I sure could use one of those London Underground scars...I have enough trouble getting on the tube with those pocket maps you get from the station:whistle:

[hermiones mum]

TOM MARVOLO RIDDLE He waved Harry's wand once, and the letters of his name re-arranged themselves , I AM LORD VOLDEMORT
I guess he named himself.
In Chamber of Secrets Harrys scar did not hurt him during the conversation with Tom Riddle was it because he was a memory or he had yet to become the cause of the scar. Could that mean that a ghost of Voldemort would continue to torment Harry through his scar, would that be why we need to know the difference between people who become Ghosts and those who don't?

[daredevildiver13]

I think Dumbledore and Lupin call him Lord Voldemort because that is his formal heading and everyone else says dark lord so lord is used by basically everyone.

[Hanaus]

Originally posted by hermiones mum (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=174991#post174991))
In Chamber of Secrets Harrys scar did not hurt him during the conversation with Tom Riddle was it because he was a memory or he had yet to become the cause of the scar.


Because THAT Voldemort, the memory, didn't give Harry the scar, so the connection doesn't affect him.

[Fawks Phinix]

I was reading all your messages and I was thinking.
every time Harry's scar hurts Voldomort feels hate, but he can't be hurting himself. if Voldemort and Harry were connected phisicaly then why does Harry hurt when Voldemort does not.

[Yadiami]

Originally posted by Fawks Phinix (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=175554#post175554))
I was reading all your messages and I was thinking.
every time Harry's scar hurts Voldomort feels hate, but he can't be hurting himself. if Voldemort and Harry were connected phisicaly then why does Harry hurt when Voldemort does not.


I don't think it's a truly physical connection, I think it's more psychical, but Harry feels it as pain what Voldemort feels as hate.

[fuzzy_muggle]

i'd like to know how everyone here thinks about harry's scar and its significance.

how come it hurts when Harry dreams about Voldemort or whenever Voldie is near Harry? and why did Dumbledore said that Harry's scar is useful when Mcgonagall said that it could be erased. I believe that there is more to Voldemort's powers being transferred to Harry's scar.

when Harry asked Dumbledore about his scar, even his answer is just a speculation....

so people what do you think?

[Mike21]

I think that it signifies a phycic connection between Voldamorte and Harry. I think Harry will see all the bad things that Voldamorte will do as he seen what Voldamorte did to Peter and the old muggle. Dumbledoor says in book 1 that scars can be usefull (Dumbledoor has a scar on his know)

It doesnt hurt all the time is near Voldamorte because his head would of been in agoney every DADA class in book 1.

[rotsiepots]

I'm going to merge this topic with some existing debate regarding Harry's scar in a thread entitled Scars can come in handy (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5814).

If another admin/mod thinks these threads should remain separate, please split the threads. :)

[Guardian Angel]

Harry's scar burns when Voldemort kills someone, when Voldemort feels a strong hate or feels extremely "killingfull". (Yeah - a new word!)The scar is a connection between Harry and the Dark Lord.
Harry’s scar is the great symbol of the series. From the dark opening of the murder of Harry’s parents and the scarring of the young infant Harry, the scar is ever-present in the story. The scar is his metaphor, his most noticeable feature, the one thing he likes best about his appearance, and the one thing that makes him recognizable within the wizard world. Harry’s wounding and the resulting scar are the marks of his destiny.
But, what I would like to know is:

Does Harry's scar has some hidden lightening powers?
What does the lightening bolt mean?
Does it have some specific mark?

Manifesting as a lightening bolt on Harry’s forehead, the form and positioning of the scar is significant. The lightening bolt has deep mythological and symbolic relevance in all cultures, representing power and strength and the creativity of energy.The scar runs down Harry’s forehead, through an area commonly referred to as the third eye or the eye of wisdom reinforcing this theme of Harry’s inward vision and clairvoyance.

EDIT : Also,the lightening bolt continues to represent mysterious and frightening forces. The lightening bolt scar on Harry's forehead marks him as a wizard of unusual power and sends him warnings when danger approaches.

[fuzzy_muggle]

Now that the shape of Harry's scar is mentioned, I thought that it definitely has a significance and I'm also wondering about its meaning...

Since the scar somewhat connects Harry and Voldemort, and take note---their wands containing the same core also make them connected to each other... I dunno, its like there is a pattern created by JK.... I wonder how these two is linked with each other...

[Guardian Angel]

Well, I said what it could represent. Is it enough for you? If you'd like some more... then I will have to search for it.

[Hanaus]

Originally posted by fuzzy_muggle (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=240506#post240506))
Since the scar somewhat connects Harry and Voldemort, and take note---their wands containing the same core also make them connected to each other... I dunno, its like there is a pattern created by JK.... I wonder how these two is linked with each other...


You know, what you said got me thinking...what if their wands represent themselves? You know, Harry's wand represents him and Voldemort's wand represents him...Harry and Voldemort are connected and the wands are also connected.

Just a thought.

[rayrayjohanna]

I knew the scar connected Harry to Voldemort, but I hadn't realized that its placement is in the "third eye" area. If Harry has the "third eye" it certainly has not been apparent during divination. I suspect the scar is going to be more important as a telepathic link to Voldie. Like the dream already has been. I wonder who (if anyone) can help Harry tap into or manipulate the scar himself?

[Barbara Kennedy]

Certainly not Sybil Trelawney?

[Thayet]

Thats an interesting idea and concept, rayrayjohanna. It could explain why, when Harrys scar is causing him pain, Voldemort feels particularly hateful, or perhaps the other way around. Simply because it hasn't been mentioned, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I think we're going to find out more about his scar in the next book anyway, so I can't wait to see.

[Weatherby]

Originally posted by Guardian Angel (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=240476#post240476))
Harry's scar burns when Voldemort kills someone, when Voldemort feels a strong hate or feels extremely "killingfull". (Yeah - a new word!)The scar is a connection between Harry and the Dark Lord.
HarryÂ’s scar is the great symbol of the series. From the dark opening of the murder of HarryÂ’s parents and the scarring of the young infant Harry, the scar is ever-present in the story. The scar is his metaphor, his most noticeable feature, the one thing he likes best about his appearance, and the one thing that makes him recognizable within the wizard world. HarryÂ’s wounding and the resulting scar are the marks of his destiny.
But, what I would like to know is:

Does Harry's scar has some hidden lightening powers?
What does the lightening bolt mean?
Does it have some specific mark?

Manifesting as a lightening bolt on HarryÂ’s forehead, the form and positioning of the scar is significant. The lightening bolt has deep mythological and symbolic relevance in all cultures, representing power and strength and the creativity of energy.The scar runs down HarryÂ’s forehead, through an area commonly referred to as the third eye or the eye of wisdom reinforcing this theme of HarryÂ’s inward vision and clairvoyance.

EDIT : Also,the lightening bolt continues to represent mysterious and frightening forces. The lightening bolt scar on Harry's forehead marks him as a wizard of unusual power and sends him warnings when danger approaches.


Superb post.
Voldemort and Harry are connected in many ways due to the spell that went wrong. Harry's wand is a link which means he'll most likely never lose that connection.

I'm afraid I don't have any answers about the lightening shape itself. Unless it's a symbol of power? Electric energy meaning the power wizards draw from? I'd hate to start comparing the series to Star Wars but it's a possibilty the wizards get their power from some source.. who knows.

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by daredevildiver13 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=168862#post168862))
I think Dumbledore's comment is foreshadowing. I know that the scar is Lil'y protection, but also think it will end up ultimately saving Harry or the wizarding world from Voldemort. Perhaps it is something similiar to Odysseus's scar that proved to be quite useful.

What do you think?


Yes, I think Dumbledore himself found his own scar "handy" when fighting Grindewald (I suppose it was Grindelwald, who caused Dumbledore's scar as well). But it was surely through another curse, not the Avada one; Barty-Moody said only Harry had survived that type of curse. He maybe had also some extra powers transfered?

Even if not, Dumbledore's experience will help Harry when it comes to.

[Barbara Kennedy]

I wonder if Dumbledore's scar will have any relevance in the coming stories?
"Scars can come in handy."
I wonder, is Dumbledore making an oblique reference to the Dark Mark carried by the Death Eaters here too?

added later to avoid double-posting [for once].

I just had an idea about Harry's lightning-bolt scar. What if it wasn't caused so much by Voldemort's curse, but by the "Ancient Magic" that protected him from the Curse. I know its splitting hairs, but it may be significant since Voldemort can now touch Harry. hmmmm, I'll have to think this out and post more later.

[Starseyer]

I have a few questions and I wonder if anyone has any ideas:

Why does Avada Kedavra leave a scar when it fails while it leaves no mark at all when it works?

Why is Harry's scar lightning shaped?

What did McGonnagol (sp?) mean when she asked Dumbledore "Is that where [Voldemort] (cursed Harry)?" Doesn't someone curse just by pointing the wand at a person and saying the words? They don't touch them.

Do any other curses leave scars?

Is the dark mark a type of curse scar?
I tend to think it is.

Any thoughts?poke:

[supernatural]

as harry is the only person to survive the curse, we have to assume thats what happens when the curse goes wrong.
as for what mcgonagol says, i have no idea- a possible ovesight on JK's part????
not sure if any other curses carry a scar if they go wrong... hasn't really been mentioned.
as far as i'm concerned what JK says goes, so if she says the curse leaves the lighting bolt scar, then the curse leaves a lighting bolt scar.
oh and as for the dark mark- if you have read GoF then you'll know it is a batman type signal in the sky....
:coolblue:

[Hpmons]

I can answer one thing for definate.

JKR said that she just chose a lightning bolt because she wanted something uniquly shaped. As for the other things...

Here are my ideas about the rest of the questions.

A lot of spells leave no mark, and so it is hard to be certain whether someone is lying (assuming they are alive of course) abou another person cursing them or not. I imagine that Very few curses leave a mark.

[FawkesBox]

This is something that really bugs me too... Avada Kedavra kills with absolutely no mark- we have evidence of this- so why when it fails does it leave a scar??? I just don't buy that it left a scar because it went wrong. There is something very strange going on here. This is one of the mysteries around which the novels will revolve and I am sure will prove very important.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Sorry for the double-post [after all].
I'm pretty sure, now, that Harry has the lightning-bolt scar because of the violent interaction between the Avada Kedavra curse and whatever magics protected him from death.

[Barbara Kennedy]

A similar thread "Scars can come in handy" has been brought back to first page. Maybe they should be merged?

[rotsiepots]

Thanks, Barbara.

I'm merging this thread with the one Barbara suggested -- Scars can come in handy (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5814).

If you're unsure whether a topic has been discussed previously, please use the search (http://www.cosforums.com/a/search.php) function located at the top left-hand corner of your screen.

Thanks! :)

[Starseyer]

Originally posted by Barbara Kennedy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=269931#post269931))
Sorry for the double-post [after all].
I'm pretty sure, now, that Harry has the lightning-bolt scar because of the violent interaction between the Avada Kedavra curse and whatever magics protected him from death.


Oooh. Good thought Barbara :wow:

[Barbara Kennedy]

Thanks, I thought about it for a long time and it was the only thing that made sense to me with what we know about the events the night Voldemort killed his parents and tried to kill Harry

[jordmundt6]

If the countercurse had been a total block, there should have been no scar. I think it just slowedit down enough that it left a mark and Harry did the rest.

[Barbara Kennedy]

I guess that is just a point we disagree on then.

[Mad Macca]

[i]Originally posted by Starseyer
Why does Avada Kedavra leave a scar when it fails while it leaves no mark at all when it works?



We don't know that this is the case. Harry is the ONLY person ever to survive Avada Kedavra, the scar could have been the result of not only Avada Kedavra, but other forces acting on Harry, like his mother's love.

[Michelle]

When V tried to kill Harry the AK curse backfired, so it was like if somebody tried to curse V. So Harry isn't the only person to have survived the AK! V is one too. And he has no scar, so that's not the general case.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Interesting theory there, it's not impossible. Even Voldemort probably doesn't know exactly what happened.

[harp230]

I know it is a strech but here I go...
In the case that Voldemort essentially avarda Kedavraed himself, perhapst that his preperations for immortality failed. Maybe the reason that he wasn't killed wasn't that he prevented it but that the curse was just diminished to a non-killing strength, such as how young mandrakes won't kill. Just a thought... I wouldn'n be the first time Voldemort was wrong.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Somehow I don't think the Avada Kedavra curse can be "fine tuned". It seems much more like an "all or nothing" spell. Either it works or it doesn't.

[Michelle]

If it was an "all or nothing" spell then Harry would have no scar & no Voldemort powers in him and Voldemort would have been dead. (Remember in CoS when Lockhart's curse backfired and hit him full strength.Well it wasn't an AK, but...)

[Barbara Kennedy]

We can assume that Voldemorts spell worked, otherwise how did it rebound and almost destroy Voldemort? You are completely discounting Lilly's sacrifice which saved Harry.

[black&potter]

this may be offtrack a bit , while were discussing scars , Will we ever get to see dumbledores scar on the London Underground?
Harrys scar is very useful and we all know it acts like an alarm
but in an interview with JKR she specifically note we still dont know everything about it yet
a question that comes to mind is When Voldemort gets another chance to kill Harry (If he does again) Will he try to take back the powers he lost to Harry ? ya know as a way to show his death eaters that he is still all wise and powerful , after being showdown by harry numerous times already:??: :??: :??:

[harp230]

I do not think that Voldemort could take back the powers. I imagine the powers from Voldemort to be more split. Whe each still have whatever powers in equal parts. I am not saying though either has weaker powers or Voldemort has less of the powers Harry got from him. Just that each have whatever powers.

[jordmundt6]

Okay, I'm going with a middle of the road theory here. I think Lily's protection absorbed some of the potency of the AK but that the scar is evidence that it broke through the protection (if the protection had worked completely, Voldemort would have gotten the absolute full blast of AK and been completely dead; but he wasn't). So Harry altered the spell and sent the altered form back (it wasn't as strong as the original AK).

[Starseyer]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=293335#post293335))
(if the protection had worked completely, Voldemort would have gotten the absolute full blast of AK and been completely dead; but he wasn't). So Harry altered the spell and sent the altered form back (it wasn't as strong as the original AK).


Oh. I've always thought that it didn't kill Voldemort because of some experiment he did to try to protect himself from death. But maybe that's only what Voldie thinks happened :shrug:

[jordmundt6]

It could be a little bit of both Starseyer.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Personally, I think you are right starseyer.

[jordmundt6]

Yeah, but it seems to be more than that or Harry's blood wouldn't be so significant (there would have been no "flash of triumph" in Dumbledore's eyes).

[miramis]

The first time Harry sees Snape, his scar hurts badly when Snape looks at him. That's the only time we've heard about the scar hurting other than when it's something to do with Voldemort, right? I mean, if the scar hurts whenever someone hates Harry, it would hurt around Malfoy for example.

Any thoughts?

[MadMagic]

I believe that Quirrel was sitting next to Snape with his head turned away from Harry. Since Voldemort was inhabiting the back of Quirrels head, Harry's scar hurt.

[LadyofthePensieve]

Hi miramis,
the scar never did hurt Harry before Snape did look at him. Even not when Harry met Quirell (that means Voldemort) at the "Leaky Cauldron". So my guess is, Snape first activated the protective and warning abilities of the scar by looking directly at Harry the first evening at Hogwarts.

[Filius Flitwick]

Voldemort had not yet inhabited Quirell's head when they met at the Leaky Cauldron. Quirell said that since he failed to get the stone from Gringott's, Voldemort decided to take a more hands on approach and inhabited the back of Quirell's head from that point on. At least, that's what other threads have theorized.

[snitchseeker86]

Oy, but Harry never looked at the back of Quirrel's head while at the Leaky Cauldron. And if he did, maybe Voldemort just wasn't inhabiiting him yet.

[Alastor D]

Harry met Quirrell in the Leaky Cauldron face to face. And, as MadMagic already said, Voldie inhabited the backside of Quirrell's head.
And welcome miramis!

[LadyofthePensieve]

Hi,
maybe, but we have no proof for that.
We know Snape did look at him, and Harry felt the pain when he did that.
In the PS we can read it very clearly.

There is no doubt Snape took eye contact with Harry and than Harry begun to feel Voldemorts presence, not before.
And Harry can feel Voldemort even he is hundreds of kilometers far away, take a look at the Gof please. But first after!! Snape looked at him, I think that is very important.

[Filius Flitwick]

Look at the scene in the movie again, the back of Quirell's head is pointed in the exact same direction as Snape. It is not Snape who causes the pain, it is Voldemort.

[MadMagic]

The only reason Snape loking at him is important is because we are supposed to think that Snape is the bad guy in SS/PS. Once we realize that he is in fact a good guy and Quirrel is bad, then we should change the way we read that scene. I just re-read it and the fact that Quirrel is mentioned in the same paragraph shows me that he is causing the pain--not Snape. Snape has no connection with the scar and is a good guy, there is no reason for him to cause the scar to hurt.

[LadyofthePensieve]

Hi MadMagic,
I guess as you Snape is a good guy, so therefore he uses to help Harry feeling Voldemort presence. With the help of the scar Harry knows if he maybe is in danger.
The scar is something positive for Harry, Dumbledore explained it for McGonagall, you remember that?
You did a negative interetation of my posting. Snape wants to appear nasty and unpleasant, but this has its reasons.
And Snape doesn´t explain so much for Harry, he just does what IS important for Harry. He is head of Slytherin and therefore he works more in a secret and sly way.
What I meant is, it is just fantastic if Snape helped Harry using the protective abilities of the scar, ok??

[JephReeta]

Hmmm...I'm sensing some tension here. Everyone hug your computer. Right. Anyway...:p
Originally posted by MadMagic (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=299662#post299662))
Snape...is a good guy...
Well, I'm not sure I would go so far as to say that, but I agree with the rest of your answer! :smile:

[EvilMeghan]

I don't understand what you mean about Snape and the protective abilities of Harry's scar, LadyofthePensieve. :??:

[jordmundt6]

just to throw in my two cents--he was looking past or around the back of Quirrel's turban at Snape. The twinge he thought he got from Snape he actually got from Voldemort.

[MadMagic]

*hugs computer*
While it is a really creative idea LadyofthePensieve that Snape was trying to help Harry through the scar (if that is what you were saying) I don't think that he has the power. I think the only person who will cause a reaction from the scar is Voldemort. And I don't think it is something that Voldemort has control of either. I think it is just part of their connection.

[Girl]

When Harry's scar first hurt in PS we thought it was Snape who cause it. But after reading it more closely we lear that Quirrels back was facing Harry. It was therefor Voldermort who was causing the scar to hurt and not Snape.

Harry and Voldermort share a connection through the scar because eash time Voldermort is near or uses his power Harry's scar hurts. In GoF when Voldermort has become human and Harry is telling Dumbledore about the events at the graveyard he says that when Voldermort touched him his scar didn't hurt anymore. Dumbledore then explains that the connection between them is now gone.

[Fuchsia]

You guys may also find the thread "Scars can come in handy" (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5814)interesting. :) :)

[GryffindorSeeker]

I think it was that Voldie was looking at him. oy. I might be wrong of course. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it. ( Unless you guys manage to convince me ;)

[Lestrange]

Originally posted by Girl (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=299783#post299783))
In GoF when Voldermort has become human and Harry is telling Dumbledore about the events at the graveyard he says that when Voldermort touched him his scar didn't hurt anymore. Dumbledore then explains that the connection between them is now gone.


I think that you may have gotten something confused. Harry's scar did hurt when Voldemort was near him, or touching him, especially during the grave yard scene, since he was so close to Voldemort. But, Voldemort could touch Harry in Goblet of Fire after he acquires his human body. I think that you may have gotten the scar and the touch thing confused...

"You know, of course that they have called this
boy my downfall?" Voldemort said softly, his red
eyes upon Harry, whose scar began to burn so
fiercely that he almost screamed in agony.

Anyway, I'm off topic. Hmm, I remember Dumbledore telling Harry that his scar hurt when Voldemort was feeling murderous, angry, or simply near him. Voldemort (inside Quirrel's turban) could have been feeling any of these when he saw Snape, Harry, or it simply was because Voldemort was near Harry.

Quirrel almost stole the stone on the same day that Harry went to Gringotts. After he failed to steal it, Quirell stated later that his master wanted to keep a closer look on him, to make sure that he didn't fail him again. And thats why his scar didn't hurt when he saw Quirell that day in the Leaky Cauldren, because Voldemort wasn't in Quirell's turban then.

I just think that it was a coincidence that Snape happened to look at Harry the same time as his scar hurt. It was essential to convince us that Snape was "evil" so that we could have a major surprise in the end and poop our pants.

[jordmundt6]

Kudos Lestrange. Excelletn explanation. Yeah the connection is still live and very painful. And possibly stronger than ever since it's Harry's blood coursing through those evil veins.

[rotsiepots]

Originally posted by Fuchsia (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=299803#post299803))
You guys may also find the thread "Scars can come in handy" (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5814)interesting. :) :)


Thanks Mariel. :)

I'm going to merge this thread with this existing topic regarding scars and their properties.

If another admin/mod thinks these threads should remain separate, please split the threads. :)

[DocHollidaywe]

I think its a great help, we get to keep tabs on Voldermort

[Prof.Aze]

Hi Guys. Before i ask my question, i have double search and i haven't found any that may answer my question. There is a thread scar may come in handy but it is different from this. Any proffesor or mods who thinks that this thread must be closed please feel free to do so. :)

Here goes my question is. Why did Harry's scar got to be a shape of a lightning. It can take a shape of a snake which is the dark mark. But why did JKR chose for it to be a lightning. :??:

I'm getting confused really. Do you think that the lightning is a significant symbol in future books? Do you think that only lightning can kill Vodemort in fact that is why it is in Harry's head as a clue?

Just keep on guessing guys... ;)

[Mad Macca]

JK Rowling wanted Harry's Scar to be different and unique. And Lighting is a symbol of power. This has been discussed somewhere else I think, but I cant remember where... :o

[Prof.Aze]

Thanks Mad Macca for replying. I also knew that i've read this somewhere but i didn't really give my thoughts on it. But know i can't find it anymore. :'(

Just keep on guessing guys...

[Picko]

I think we'll just have to keep guessing until JK tells us. I've got no doubt though that Harry's scar is of great importance, what that importance is I wouldn't have a clue :)

[RemusLupin]

Interesting. Never really thought about Harry's scar. That way. Good work. :tu:

[Barbara Kennedy]

Harry's scar will probably act as a compass and "weathervane" of Voldemort's location and activities, at least to a small degree. It's accuracy may yet be tasted.

[Barbara Kennedy]

I just went and did a read-through of the thread "Scars can come in handy" and it does deal with the fact that his scar is shaped like a lightening bolt and the reasoning behind it.
So this thread may get merged with that one anyway.
Or it may get closed, it depends on what the Moderator decides.

[Goldie]

I think the reason it's shaped like a bolt of lightning is because it's the mirror-image of the green flash of light that accompanies arvada kadavara. Perhaps it couldn't be any other shape because of how it was acquired.

A bit off-topic, but wasn't there something in the first book to the effect that the only thing Harry liked about his appearance was the scar? Sure changed his mind about that, hasn't he?!

[DocHollidaywe]

:welcome: to the boards ... I imagine this will be merged/closed at some point, but untill then. I think Harrys scar is in the shape of a bolt of lightning because of the way the spell is preformed ... We know that the levitating charm is "Swish and flick" and acording to the CoS movie tapping an animal 3 times and saying an incantation will make a Water Goblet ... So i think that maybe Avada Kedavara is a lighting style swishing action

[Emma]

I've merged the threads...

[Barbara Kennedy]

Thank you, Emma.

[Prof.Aze]

Hi Emma... Thank a lot for not closing the thread. I could really need some help about it. :p

Go Emma... :clappy:

[Capella]

I read an good post once on a different message board about how the lightning bolt in some cultures is a symbol of a snake cast down from heaven.
The information came from a symbolism dictionary I think. I thought it was pretty interesting

[Barbara Kennedy]

That is interesting. I've never heard that before. What was the source, do you know?

[Katze]

Here's Rowling's reason for chosing the bolt shape:

Q: Why did you choose the lightning bolt as a trademark for Harry Potter?
Rowling: Just because I decided that it would be an interesting and distinctive mark.

taken from this interivew (http://www.scholastic.com/harrypotter/author/transcript1.htm)

[Capella]

Barbara,
I found the original post and it quotes the source as a symbolism dictionary by Hans Biederman - Cultural Icons and the Meanings Behind Them. I checked Amazon.co.uk, but it seems to be no longer available :huh:

[Barbara Kennedy]

Thank you for looking for it anyway, I appreciate the effort.

[FawkesBox]

I didn't know if I should start a new thead on this or just post it here so...
I found the best quote the other day... GoF British version softcover page 613 Fudge says of the pains in Harry's scar "I've heard of a curse scar acting as an alarm bell before..." at which point Harry interrupts him.

To what could this be referring. Is it the dark mark? Can morsmordre mark not only the sky but also a person? Does this show a more intimate relation between Harry, Voldemort, and the rest of the death eaters? Is the apparent similarities between the dark mark and Harry's scar the result of a similiar curse?
-or-
Is Fudge hinting at some other scar the we have not heard of yet but which will play a part in the future? Does Fudge have such a scar?

[Yadiami]

I think I've got a nice proof on Dumbledore's scar being important.

We know that Dumbledore has a scar on his knee which is a map of the London Underground. He says "Underground", not "Tube", which has been thought to be a hint of something magical in this thread.

I've been reading Alan Moore's Promethea, a comic about a girl and her relations with Magic and Kabala. In issue 14 (http://www.angelfire.com/comics/eroomnala/14.html) of the series she's in a station in which there is a map. The girl says it's like a map of the London Tube* she saw once, but then she realizes it's the Kabala's Tree of Life.

The map looks like this (http://www.angelfire.com/comics/eroomnala/images/kabbalah.jpg). I though she meant it was drawed like any map of buses or trains, and I saw a image of the London Tube but it was too big and I didn't saw anything interesting. But in this (http://www.thetube.com/content/tubemap/) page there is a thumbnail (http://www.thetube.com/content/tubemap/images/map.gif) of the Tube and I think it looks like a Tree of Life.

I'm not sure if I can explain what a Tree of Life is, since I'm still starting to study it but this (http://www.byzant.com/kabbalah/) site seems to have 'clear' information on the subject, specially in this (http://www.byzant.com/kabbalah/treeoflife.asp) section.

This paragraph seem to reach the point:
The Tree of Life describes the descent of the divine into the manifest world, and methods by which divine union may be attained in this life. It can be viewed as a map of the human psyche, and of the workings of creation, both manifest and unmanifest

The Tree of Life is the Tree of which Adan and Eve didn't eat in the Biblical Genesis (the ate from the Tree of Knowledge). It's formed with circles (sefiroths) which were created as God created the Universe. Each one has a deep meaning (like Wisdom, Mercy, Justice, etc) and they can be 'read' following a path. There are 22 ways to connect all the circles -the lines in the 'Tube' map- and also, I you follow the path from sefiroth 1 to sefiroth 10 you can draw a sword whic is said to be the one holded by an Angel at the entry of the Eden.
There are several ways in which you can read the Tree, some involving the Tarot. They're important in order to study human behaviour because if can help to understand our nature.

I thin it could be a very useful scar, a reminder that everything is connected, that everything is important, that you can't put all your efforts in only one thing because you may forget the rest. I think Dumbledore would find it some uses.

Do you know something about JKR knowledge of Kabala? Or, at least, if she's read Umberto Eco's Foucoult's Pendulum wich is a very good book with some paragraphs about Kabala's use in daily life which I found really interesting.

I hope we manage to get something clear of this :D


* I have the Spanish version of the comic, so I don't know if she said Tube or Underground, If someone could tell me it would be very appreciated.
Also, if someone knows more about the Kabala and the Tree of Life, please, explain this concept better, I'm afraid I wrote a nice mess. :whistle:

[CentaurFirenze]

I think that Harry's scar will let him use magic without a wand during times of great peril. That would be cool.

[preludetoadream]

I think Dumbledore's scar on his knee is more important than we think. when I first read it and he said it's 'the perfect map of the london underground' I thought subway instantly too. and always had. BUT then when I was rereading them all this time it hit me what is the london underground important to wizards? Gringorts bank of course, all the vaults are under london it says so in the books, I think Dumbledore has a map of gringorts on his knee. What significance that could have I don't know yet but I think we will hear more about that scar.

[FawkesBox]

I agree prelude underground is a word with so many interpretations not like subway or metro. I doubt that Diagon (and Knockturn) Alley is the only secret place in London. Perhaps this will be the new magical area that Harry explores in OOtP.

[preludetoadream]

Originally posted by FawkesBox (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=361057#post361057))
Perhaps this will be the new magical area that Harry explores in OOtP.


Ohhh!! now that's a interesting theory! it might just be.

I don't know why I just really get the feeling that dumbledores scars is one of those important things that people over look in the books, but eh I could be wrong, I have been before :wow: ;D

[FawkesBox]

prelude.... I think that I overlooked every single important clue on the first reading- now I can finally go back and analyze things like this. JKR is such a mistress of subtly.

[Eyla Liv]

Okay, this is kinda random but work with me here :-) ...about the London Underground scar that Dumbledore has... maybe it has two meanings. Isn't Gringotts bank under London so wouldn't that be under-the-ground in London. Because, why would Dumbledore have traveled on the London Subway? I mean, he does know everything but why would that ever come in handy? It was just a random thought but you never know.

[FirefightingMuggle]

Ok...bear with me here...DD defeated Grindelwald in 1945. Well prior to 1945, there were a lot of people in Britian using the underground as a shelter from the bombs that the Germans were pelting London with. I'm sure that muggles and wizards alike took to hiding, because a bomb could kill ya, magic or no. So....maybe DD's scar helped him to locate some of the wizards who were hiding in the underground. When he found them, they helped him on his path to defeating Grindelwald.
I feel that Harry's scar will also help him on his path to defeating Voldemort. He can sense when Voldemort is feeling violent, because his scar burns, so maybe this can help him track Voldemort down in the end.

[jordmundt6]

An interesting theory even if it is slightly out of left field. Good thinking.

[InvasionOfTheGuru4]

I think that when Voldemort is finally destroyed, Harry's scar will disappear.

Sorry if someone already posted that! :o

[chrissy2crazy]

I think the scar will always be there because it's a physical mark... but the connection between Harry and Voldemort will go away when either of them die in their final battle... unless... the connection is still retained through death or something...

:) :p

[rons-lover]

Yes, I was thinking along those lines... That through his scar and blood connection to Voldy that possibly when one kills one the other will die. Or maybe that has to do with "Why only one can live?"....Hmmm

[Hogwarts4evr]

Devildriver13, I was thinking along those same lines.
[A curse Harry or Voldemort preforms kill not only the other but himself as well, but the scar will always stay. I believe DD on that one because he is a very good and powerful wizard, who wouldn't believe him?]

Harry's scar as said above has been both a blessing and a curse like DD said :). Harry's scar has only one more use... To kill Voldemort Once and For ALL!!!!!!

~Hogwarts4evr

[Weasleytwin]

Okay, this is kinda random but work with me here :-) ...about the London Underground scar that Dumbledore has... maybe it has two meanings. Isn't Gringotts bank under London so wouldn't that be under-the-ground in London. Because, why would Dumbledore have traveled on the London Subway? I mean, he does know everything but why would that ever come in handy? It was just a random thought but you never know.

I had the same idea about DD's scar being connected to Gringotts. I think Hagrid says in PS that Gringotts is even below the underground-who's to say that DD means the Underground when he makes that comment? We also know that the tunnels of Gringotts are mazelike-you would definately need a map to find your way around. And if you were storing something very valuable (like the Philosopher's Stone and maybe other things we don't know about yet) in a Gringotts vault, maybe you'd need your own map. Of course, you'd also need a Gringotts goblin to open your vault and they know their way around anyways, so maybe that's not a good idea...DD doesn't ever say how he got the scar, does he?

[mevam]

Maybe Harry has to attack his own scar to hurt Voldemort?

If the scar is his connection with Voldemort, and if he can't fight Voldemort directly because of Priori Incantatem being performed, then why not attack the source of his connection? The scar would be easy enough to hex, and perhaps then the pain would be transferred to Voldemort.

[adamgnome]

If Harry can sense Voldemorts feelins...What would happen if Voldemort sensed a feeling of love or some other non-cold-blooded-murderous feeling? O_o Of course Voldemort is good at occlumentry...=/

[Dottie]

I think the scar will always be there because it's a physical mark... but the connection between Harry and Voldemort will go away when either of them die in their final battle... unless... the connection is still retained through death or something...

:) :p

While it is a physical mark now, normal muggle scars don't ache and pain when the person/thing that caused it is out inflicting more harm, so I think it is very possible for it to disappear when Voldemort is defeated.

[sirius_gerl]

Voldemort can't feel love, 'cause dumbledore keeps telling harry that the only magic that voldemort can't understand is love. so if voldemort learned to love, it would ruin the books, cause then he would be defeated.

[mevam]

I think that since Harry is so obviously incapable of attacking Voldemort with his wand, seeing as how Priori Incantatem occured in GOF when he tried to, it might be more likely that his scar will be of use by Harry attacking Voldemort THROUGH his scar. Since all throughout the series we've read about how Harry's scar hurt whenever Voldemort was around or feeling some emotion, perhaps this is a big hint that there is an indirect PHYSICAL connection between the two. If Harry felt pain because Voldemort was feeling happy or whatnot, what if Harry were to send a jinx or curse at his own scar and cause the pain to be transmitted to Voldemort? That might result in Harry's ultimate death to kill Voldemort, which would be a tradition hero-sacrifices-himself-to-save-others syndrome that literature seems to run.

[CaseyAlthea]

I think that since Harry is so obviously incapable of attacking Voldemort with his wand, seeing as how Priori Incantatem occured in GOF when he tried to, it might be more likely that his scar will be of use by Harry attacking Voldemort THROUGH his scar. Since all throughout the series we've read about how Harry's scar hurt whenever Voldemort was around or feeling some emotion, perhaps this is a big hint that there is an indirect PHYSICAL connection between the two. If Harry felt pain because Voldemort was feeling happy or whatnot, what if Harry were to send a jinx or curse at his own scar and cause the pain to be transmitted to Voldemort? That might result in Harry's ultimate death to kill Voldemort, which would be a tradition hero-sacrifices-himself-to-save-others syndrome that literature seems to run.

Oh dear. So they key to victory will involve self-mutilation?

I agree that Harry's going to sacrifice himself, but to curse his own body... That's rough. :upset:

[curlyfry]

I still want to know WHY the scar is there. I was under the impression that the killing curse doesn't leave a mark of any kind. :blush:

[SquibOnline]

Hasn't it been usefull all through OotP?

[curlyfry]

:shrug: I don't deny that it's been of great help throughout the books, but that still doesn't answer WHY is it there?!! :shrug:

[Gwenog Jones]

I still want to know WHY the scar is there. I was under the impression that the killing curse doesn't leave a mark of any kind. :blush:
Avada Kedavra doesn't leave any mark. But Voldemort's spell was not successful, so technically it wasn't really a killing curse because Harry is still alive obviously. The scar is the connection between Harry and LV.

[Shark_M]

Harry Potter was probably marked like the Death Eaters (mark on their hand) that snape has and others.... it makes a note that Voldemort is there

[GIGGSY LAD]

What Did Odysseus' Scar Do In The Odyssey?

[sirius_gerl]

Harry Potter was probably marked like the Death Eaters (mark on their hand) that snape has and others.... but their mark is different. Theirs isn't a scar, but the dark mark...

it makes a note that Voldemort is there

that part is true, which makes me question my last remark...did you mean like a symbol, or the Death Eaters mark?

[Ellen]

What Did Odysseus' Scar Do In The Odyssey?

Didn't it allow his old nurse to recognize him?

[cornish_pixies]

Harry Potter was probably marked like the Death Eaters (mark on their hand) that snape has and others.... it makes a note that Voldemort is there

I definately see a connection between the two. Of course, you have to note that the mark that the Death Eaters have is not a scar, more a burn (from what I deduced). But yes - it's interesting how they all have connections to Voldemort through cursed marks on their bodies. I think Harry's scar will have something to do with the final battle, and how he defeats Voldemort. I think it's going to be the only way.