Something silvery darts out of Hagrid's cabin...? Dumbledore's Patronus?

[nehaljetha]

I was reading GoF for about the fifth time and I notice something.This is the passage from the book when Dumbledore and Harry find Krum stunned outside the Forbidden Forest.
'should I go get someone? said Harry."Madame Pomfrey?"
"No",said Dumbledore swiftly."Stay here."
He raised his wand into the air and pointed it in the direction of Hagrid's cabin.Harry saw something silvery dart out of it and streak away through the trees like a gostly bird.
Now I was thinking was that thing that Harry saw, streaking through the trees,Dumbledores Patronus.I think it was because it was-silvery,and also had an animal form.If i have hit on something it could be the reason for the next book being named The Order Of The Pheonix .
Tell me your opinion
Chow.

[1MelissaPotter]

Its possible, but I don't really know. There may have been a Dementor approaching. But he didn't say the spell.

[ilovelifex1000]

That is incredible that you caught that. You know I would not doubt that it was a pheonix. My only point of contention would be- would Harry have mentioned if it was a pheonix, and not just say silvery bird? But then again he was pretty preoccipied.

[stellaluna]

Why should Dumbledore send out a Patronous to contact Hagrid?
I don't agree with the reason for your theory, but with tzhe theory itself... His Patronous probably is a Pheonix.

[White_Rose]

It seems a little.... over-used if we were to find another unregistered Animagi. JKR likes to be creative so I don't see how she would incorporate something already used in another book.

[nimbus2006]

I agree White_Rose.. but they're not saying Dumbledore's animagus form is a Phoenix.. but that his patronus takes on the shape of a Phoenix.
I would not doubt this.. Dumbledore seems to have a great connection with phoenixes,
However, I do not think that this is why the next book is named The Order of the Phoenix.

[tintinboy]

Fawkes could be an Animagi, too, but I doubt it. He's darn intelligent, though.

[Crayak]

It wasn't a patronus, so it doesn't matter what shape it was. What it was was a messenger spell. What a messenger spell does is send out a small silver dart kinda of like a small,ghostly bird. It's a rather useful spell although I believe that it is somewhat difficult.

[cedric]

i doubt it was a patronus, maybe like a signal. but didnt he do something like that in PoA?

[DocHollidaywe]

Okay here is some stuff

* If it was patronus, that could be a signal for come quick
* if DD is an Animagus is probaly is registered. Remember Hermione checked for the last 100 years DD is 155 im sure he was one before age 55

[White_Rose]

Oh dear, mind me, didn't read title well enough. Sorry!

[Jennie]

IIRC, in CoS it said that Dumbledore was the Transfiguration professor while Tom Riddle was in school. Perhaps he is a registered animagus as Professor McGonagle is? I know, just because McGonagle is doesn't necessarily mean that being an animagus is a requirement for being transfiguration professor....but....maybe?

[Ava]

Is DD's patronus a phoenix?
Could be. But I don't think that it has anything to do with the title being the Order of the Phoenix.

[Reaver]

It seems a little.... over-used if we were to find another unregistered Animagi. JKR likes to be creative so I don't see how she would incorporate something already used in another book.


Who ever said that Dumbledore was an Animagi?

[White_Rose]

Oh dear, mind me, didn't read title well enough. Sorry!

[cedric]

why would dumbledore use a patronus to signal someone? it stupid, first you have to do the thinking part and didnt say the word. but i noticed the do alot of magic without saying the words

[Crayak]

IT WASN"T A PATRONUS. There. Ok. The spell that he did to summon Hagrid was a messenger spell. You can look it up in the Lexicon if you want.

[EvilMeghan]

I didn't know how to make a search for this topic, but if there's a thread on this already, just close this. :D

In GoF, chapter 28 (p. 560, American Hardcover), right before Dumbledore revives Krum, it says:
"Harry saw something silvery dark out of it [Hagrid's cabin] and streak away through the trees like a ghostly bird."

What is this? I didn't notice this sentence the first gazillion times I read GoF, but now I did. Any ideas on what this silvery thing is? :??:

[SoccerRules17]

No clue, thanks for pointing that out I'll go check that out now.

[Cat]

Somebody hurriedly disappearing under an Invisibility Cloak?

Or am I completely missing the context here? I might have to find that sentence in my own book. Oh, wait, my book is all the way upstairs.

[1MelissaPotter]

I have no idea, but its really weird. Maybe a Patronus- a Dementor was approaching perhaps?

[Weasley24]

I think it might be some sort of symbol that Dumbledore needed Hagrid. You know, some sort of spell he can send to get him more quickly than walking over to the hut and getting him. As to what kind of spell it is, i have no clue.

[crookshanks76]

Aloha,
Yeah, this topic is already on the boards.
It will probably get moved, so
I've posted the open thread link for you. :D Click Here for Link (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5690&highlight=Patronus)

[EvilMeghan]

Thanks! :D

[BabyMars]

Hmmm, I didn't notice either. I'm going to go look that up!

Cheers :smooch:

[Camo]

The topic of this discussion states that something flew out of Hagrid's cabin but the silvery thing shot out of Dumbledore's wand, through the trees to Hagrid's cabin.

[hermiones mum]

Could the silver be the ghost of Crouch snr.

He has just been killed and I don't suppose he was very heppy when he died and also had unfinished business - these are hints we have gathered from JKR about what makes a ghost.

[sugarquill]

Hmmm verry interesting, rushing to get my book as I type...no wait..um be right back :)

[hermiones mum]

Uk version p486. top half of the page

Gosh what is the name of the chapter ? The madness of Mr Crouch.

[sugarquill]

Very interesting...It seemed that Dumbledor very deliberatly pointed the wand at Hagrids cabin, it wasnt like he was looking around randomly and saw the silvery thing, it was like he expected to see it or see something coming out of the cabin. Also he did all that before reviving Krum, must have been very important. I dont think it was a patronas because Dumbledor wasnt frightened or in need of support. I dont think that it was Crouch JR under the invisability cloak either the cloak doesnt shine in the dark its un detectable.
Could it be some yet unknown magical creature whos job it is to patrol the grounds around the forbidden forest where Hagrid's cabin is.

[nehaljetha]

I had started a thread on this some time back.In the book Harry sees some thing silvery shoot out of Dumbledore's wand and go towards Hagrid's hut.It looked like a gostly bird.I think it was Dumbledore's patronus which is a Pheonix that he used to summon Hagrid.It makes sense,that the next book is called OotP.May be all of the "old crowd" have a pheonix as a patronus.

[Nick]

Okies, I'm quoting directly from the book here .. if I'm not supposed to, say the word and I'll nuke it. :)

" .. He raised his wand into the air and pointed it in the direction of Hagrid's cabin. Harry saw something silvery dart out of it and streak away through the trees like a ghostly bird. Then Dumbledore bent over Krum again .. "

There you go. Dumbledore does it. Moments later, Hagrid arrives. I deduce, therefore, that it was a signal of some kind to summon Hagrid, and it probably may have been a phoenix. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it were used as some kind of signal between the members of this mysterious Order (assuming that's what the OotP is) the way the Dark Mark is used as a signal between Death Eaters. I do not, however, believe that it is a Patronus; I cannot see any reason to use such a powerful spell when a simpler one could suffice. I am, of course, assuming a simpler spell exists ..

[1MelissaPotter]

Originally posted by sugarquill (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=178100#post178100))
Could it be some yet unknown magical creature whos job it is to patrol the grounds around the forbidden forest where Hagrid's cabin is.


It wouldn't be because it shot out of DD's wand. I don't think it was a patrounus though, because it didn't say DD said anything-like a spell. Maybe it was something else-like a way of contacting Hagrid (or anyone else).

[Cat]

A very pretty summoning spell?

[EvilMeghan]

Yea, Cat, I think that's what it was...someone said it's on the Lexicon...have to check that out...

Edit:
Here it is, straight from the Lexicon:
Messernger Spell
-no incantation used

-Sends a magical messenger to someone in the form of a silvery dart, rather like a small, ghostly bird.

-Dumbledore sent a message to Hagrid using this spell. He simply pointed his wand in the direction of Hagrid's hut and sent the messenger without saying a word. Hagrid came directly to Dumbledore, which suggests that it is possible to retrace the flight of the dart. (GF28)

[DarlingChild]

I was wondering about this too, but I always assumed that it was Dumbledore who had sent the silvery thing, kind of as a call, or signal to Hagrid. *shrugs*

[Kneazle]

I've merged the threads.

[dorcasderr]

So, what we have, boiled down, is that Dumbledore sent a messenger spell to Hagrid out of his wand without saying anything OUT LOUD. That is the silvery thing Harry saw. Perhaps for someone of Dumbledore's knowledge and experience it is not necessary to do anything but THINK the message and the receiver gets the thought and responds.

[meghan_tatsu]

I agree that it looks like DD sent the spell from his wand, but if you read the quote from the book it dosen't actually say that. The silvery thing could have come out of hagrid's cabin:

"He raised his wand into the air and pointed in the direction of Hagrid's cabin. Harry saw something silvery dart out of it and streak away through the trees like a ghostly bird."(GF 486)

The " dart out of it" seems to me to imply something coming out of a building, if it was coming out of a wand, wouldn't the spell have to take on the form of the ghostly bird before it could dart? I like the idea of a creature we haven't heard of that patrols around the forest, that DD is able to control with his wand or something.

[cedric]

a patronus is used to repel dementors not send message and signals. didnt he do the same signal somewhere else?

[Aramis Diggle]

Nope i think it was actually Fawkes. Ghostly Bird...Who knows how fast Fawkes can really fly! He could have been going soooooooo fast that it appeared he was silver! Me and my amazingly cracked out theories...Oh well!

[MadMagic]

Originally posted by Crayak (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=165914#post165914))
IT WASN"T A PATRONUS. There. Ok. The spell that he did to summon Hagrid was a messenger spell. You can look it up in the Lexicon if you want.


As Crayak so kindly pointed out to us that it is a messanger spell, I am going to have to agree. Why would Dumbledore want to use a patronus to summon Hagrid. Maybe you get to choose the shape your messanger spell takes and since he is find of Pheonixes, his is a pheonix.

[Spitf1re]

Maybe Dumbledore saw a dementor coming to see why Krum was stunned and Dumbledore jsut wanted him out of the way. Dumbledore might have been in Hargrid's Cabin at the time. Just a possibility....

[GodricSlytherin]

It could possible have been Dd's calling card. Hagird,Snape,Mcgonagall....they all probably know it......that's what I think...a wizards calling card

[EvilMeghan]

Originally posted by EvilMeghan (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=178599#post178599))
Here it is, straight from the Lexicon:
Messernger Spell
-no incantation used

-Sends a magical messenger to someone in the form of a silvery dart, rather like a small, ghostly bird.

-Dumbledore sent a message to Hagrid using this spell. He simply pointed his wand in the direction of Hagrid's hut and sent the messenger without saying a word. Hagrid came directly to Dumbledore, which suggests that it is possible to retrace the flight of the dart. (GF28)


Does anyone read the entire thread? Why am I quoting myself?

[Cat]

Originally posted by EvilMeghan (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=179422#post179422))
Does anyone read the entire thread? Why am I quoting myself?


Well, the Lexicon isn't the be all and end all of discussion.

meghan_tatsu, I think it more implies that the silvery thing darted out of Dumbledore's wand! Although Hagrid's cabin is introduced, it's all a description of the happenings of Dumbledore's wand (raises it, points it... then what does it do?). Also note that the silvery doodah goes away through the forest. Harry and Dumbledore were in the forest. Hagrid's hut is on the edge of it.

[EvilMeghan]

True, but the Lexicon does have a lot.

[Cat]

Originally posted by EvilMeghan (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=180256#post180256))
True, but the Lexicon does have a lot.


Most of it pieced together and guessed. They have no more facts that we do :D

It's a good site, though. Even if they did put Little Hangleton too far up on the proposed map of magical Britain.

[Padfoot127]

but is wasn't a patronus. he didn't say the incantation. plus, don't you have to see a dementor to say the spell? that would make a lot of sense, that you can't defend yourself against something that isn't even there.

[EvilMeghan]

It just doesn't make sense for Dumbledore to send out a Patronus - no reason to. Just because it looks like a Patronus, doesn't mean it is one. I don't think Avada Kedavra is the only spell with green light.

[meghan_tatsu]

I still don't agree that it came out of DD's wand. I think it was controlled by him, but came out of Hagrid's cabin, and went into the woods to look for Crouch Senior.

[Puffskein]

Incidentally, the Patronus isn't just for repelling Dementors. Fantastic Beasts describes how it is also the only way to repel a Lethifold (a sort of living blanket that suffocates people). I agree that the silvery thing was a messenger spell, not a Patronus.

[Spitf1re]

He raised his wand into the air and pointed it in the direction of Hagrid's cabin.Harry saw something silvery dart out of it and streak away through the trees like a ghostly bird.
-
In the veritaserum chapter, Barty Crouch Jr. says that he buried his father in the freshly dug earth near Hagrid's house. (Nifflers) I'm thinking that the ghosly bird may be Mr Crouch's ghost. Since ghosts are supposed to be preoccupied at the tie of death, I think it could be true. After all Crouch his mind set on finding Dumbledore.
Also, it could have been Bart Jr. using a spell to bury his dad.

[Potter80]

It might have just been silver shot so fast it looked like a bird going through the air.

[~xXInuYashaXx~]

Yeah maybe but I don't think JK would put that in there for show. I think as someone said earlier that it's some sort of signal between the group known as the Order of the Phoenix, assuming it's a group. Also, I thought Dumbledore didn't need a wand? I thought he could produce ANY spell with just his mind and hands?:??: Maybe it WASN'T really Dumbledore?!:wow:

[Potter80]

Quote:
Yeah maybe but I don't think JK would put that in there for show. I think as someone said earlier that it's some sort of signal between the group known as the Order of the Phoenix, assuming it's a group.
______________________________________

I believe they are a group as well. I don't think DD sent a patronus. If it is a OotP signal then that would make Hagrid a member. I hope Hagrid is a member.

[delemtri]

Okay, Dumbledore shot it out of his wand and it went to Hagrid's cabin. Why are we assuming it's a Patronus or a ghost? Dumbledore didn't know Crouch was dead and there were no Dementors nearby. Also, immediately afterwards Hagrid came out of the cabin.

It was just a spell to get Hagrid's attention, in my humble opinion.

[Potter80]

Hagrid had to Know it was summoning him. He came in a hurry.

[delemtri]

It probably opened his door and said c'mere or something. Doesn't mean it's a Patronus or a phoenix.

[Potter80]

I don't think it was a petronus. Maybe a phoenix, but more likely just a summoning charm.

[~xXInuYashaXx~]

But Dumbledore doesn't NEED a wand to perform spells, remember? He has the ability to harness his magical power without the use of a projector, the wand. So how do we even know this is Dumbledore?:whistle:

[delemtri]

What? We know it's Dumbledore because nobody else has that long of a beard and wears half-moon spectacles.

[~xXInuYashaXx~]

Ok but explain why he has a wand? Also, this could be someone who's under the PolyJuice potion, as speculated afterwards when Harry sees a glint of triumph in Dumbledore's eyes when Harry said that Voldemort could touch him.

[delemtri]

Because wands help you do magic.

[Potter80]

Dubledores great and everything but he still needs a wand.

[EvilMeghan]

I highly doubt it is someone under the Polyjuice potion. It was just DD getting Hagrid's attention. He's not evil. :evil:

[Empire65]

Hey I see were your coming from but teh silvery thing might just have been and messenger to Hagrid.

On a second note the adult book cover in the UK is the best. U can see it on bloomsbury.com its incredible. :coolblue:

[Empire65]

I dont get how it could have been a patronus I mean as in JK has eluded to a new form of communicating in the wizarding world, book 5 theory, so hey we might find out soon enough

[HPviolinist85]

Does anyone have a page number on where to find this passage?

[gred&forge4ever]

I did a search and could not find this. on p.560, in the GoF it says that Dumbledore"raised in wand into the air and pointed it in the direction of Hagrid's cabin. Harry saw something silvery dart out of it and streak away through the tress like a ghostly bird?". Any thougts on

1. What this silvery streak was?

2. Why did Dumbledore shoot is out of his wand?

I think that it was his Patronus(a phoenix of course) and that he sent it to try to catch whoever stunned Krum. But if it was a Patronus, how did Crouch Jr escape it?

[I heart Sirius]

Well it wasn't a patronus, they stop Dementors. I don't know, actually, as much as I've read GoF I don't remember reading about that. S o I don't know.

[Nickel]

Great observation but, it's already a thread.

Here's the link:

http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?threadid=6049&highlight=dumbledore+patronus

[Barbara Kennedy]

The general conclusion I heard of last was that it was a summoning or message spell to call Hagrid from his cabin.

[gred&forge4ever]

Thanks nickel, I will check out that thread. Sorry for the duplication. I just noticed that part today when I was reading the book aloud to my students

[Nickel]

I have a habit of knowing what threads there are floating around the forums.. I read them for months and months before deciding to start posting, so I was just taking in what was here and learned what was around. I hope I didn't sound snotty when I said that, I was just trying to be helpful. :)

[DocHollidaywe]

I'm sure this will be closed soon ...
If it was a patronus, it was to light the path ... not to catch anyone ... Perhaps thats the sign of The Order of The Phoenix ... Maybe every member can shoot one out of their wand if in trouble etc...

[HPviolinist85]

If it is a sign for trouble or to contact other members, I wonder how many times DD had to use it.

[GlassRoses314]

Yea I remember a thread on this...

However... let's say for arguments sake it was a Patronus. Patronus's don't just fend off Dementors, they also can be used to defend yourself against a Lethifold...however I doubt Dumbledore was even thinking about Lethifolds at that moment lol. It's nice to keep it mind though. I think I agree with the people who said that it was a warning or calling signal.

[lanifiel]

Nickel is right please use the thread provided above.

[Fidelius]

The Lexicon isn't the be all and end all of Harry Potter wisdom, that title goes to Joanne Rowling.

However, having said that, I agree it is most likely a message to Hagrid (secret or otherwise).

If it was a Patronus it could just be that, even though there weren't any dementors about right then, Dumbledore didn't want themcoming to see what all the fuss is about.

Also I do think Dumbledores Patronus (if we ever see it) would be a Phoenix or an Otter.

[~BrandyTook~]

I never though that it would have been a patronus. It had to have been a messenger. It summoned Hagrid and Hagrid came. If it had been a Patronus, how would it have summoned Hagrid? So I agree with everyone who's said that it was to call Hagrid.

I too think Dumbledore's Patronus would be a phoenix.

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by Crayak (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=165130#post165130))
It wasn't a patronus, so it doesn't matter what shape it was. What it was was a messenger spell. What a messenger spell does is send out a small silver dart kinda of like a small,ghostly bird. It's a rather useful spell although I believe that it is somewhat difficult.


Excellent. Where did you find the info? Is it at the HPLexicon?
On the other hand, how can we even imagine the magic that DD has at his command? It could be something we've never heard of, yet.

[iversonsgurl89]

wait wait wait...it could've been like a patronus that failed...after dumbledore uses Snape's truth potion and hears Crouch Jrs. story, he sends him up to his office...then when they go 2 the office dont they discover that whuts his face had brought dementors there...?

[whizbang121]

Originally posted by iversonsgurl89 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=376029#post376029))
wait wait wait...it could've been like a patronus that failed...after dumbledore uses Snape's truth potion and hears Crouch Jrs. story, he sends him up to his office...then when they go 2 the office dont they discover that whuts his face had brought dementors there...?


uh..... I'm confused. Could you try that again?

[iversonsgurl89]

nvm i just mixed events...i think

[Barbara Kennedy]

I'm bringing this back to front page for more discussion.

There has been previous debate in this thread on this being a method of quick communication.
Could it have anything to do with the methods used by Order members to quickly communicate?