Goblins -- whose side are they on?

[Celestina Warbeck]

The book states that goblins love gold and money, which is why they manage Gringotts Bank. Is it possible that they might turn to the Dark Side, if bribed with a large sum of money? They are clearly neutral, but what if they turned evil?

[Cat]

What amount could they be bribed with? At the bank, they sit on top of more money than any wizard could ever own. If they were evil, in the dark magic way, they could nick off with the gold in the vaults. But nothing like that has happened in the series yet.

[Weatherby]

There's a semi-similar discussion about the goblins possibly turning to Voldemort's side in a thread. I can't recall which though :)

That's a good point Cat. They would've done it already.

I don't think they'd risk it even if they wanted to. They fought hard for their position.

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by Cat (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=232821#post232821))
What amount could they be bribed with? At the bank, they sit on top of more money than any wizard could ever own. If they were evil, in the dark magic way, they could nick off with the gold in the vaults. But nothing like that has happened in the series yet.

But it's not exactly THIER gold is it. Maybe Voldermort will give them gold of their own and stuff and like he will give them power to take over the bank. Think about it, all the money being sucked outta the system, it could really work in Voldies favour.

ok so well duh they have control over the bank, but they would like have complete cointrol over it and rule with it ya know ok

[Cat]

No, it's not their money. But they know the underground system well and they can open any vault. It might as well be theirs. They could take it without Voldemort's permission.

[Jessica]

Has anyone wondered how Quirell was able to break in? It seems like you would need some inside help

a. knowing which vault
b. finding the vault
c. opening the vault (remember it could only be opened by goblin fingers, there was no keyhole)

Is it possible that one or more goblins were working with Voldemort.

If so why?

[HbAznKyootie]

exactly, i agree with Cat. We know that they love money, but they're not evil enough to steal it from the vaults. They could steal anything easily, but they dont. But i think they will continue to stay neutral because even if Voldemort offers them a huge sum of money, its not worth losing their jobs(and it sounds like to me, that goblins have worked in gringotts since the beginning of time), and their place in the wizarding community.

[aiko amaya]

I think what makes them seem like they would join Voldie is because they are usually potrayed as evil. Something Hermione would definetly protest. All those Goblins in littgle kiddy fairy tales, Being an evil race in the lord of the rings. Hblettersyootie or whatever is right they're greed and not evil

[samwitch]

i bet the decisions of which side you're on don't happen in just the wizarding world, i'll bet it happens in other creature worlds as well. i have a feeling some goblins might switch to the dark side, but you will probably also have some goblins working in close connections with the light side.

[aiko amaya]

maybe but I don't think so. I gewt the impression that it's either the majority goes to one side, majority goes to other side. heck the goblins might not have to take sides

[Celestina Warbeck]

I wonder if goblins have magic that helps protect the gold from people who steal it. If they can perform magic, then they can be the victim of spells- what if some of them are under the Imperius Curse?

[tabby]

Originally posted by jessicacarstens (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=233041#post233041))
Has anyone wondered how Quirell was able to break in? It seems like you would need some inside help

a. knowing which vault
b. finding the vault
c. opening the vault (remember it could only be opened by goblin fingers, there was no keyhole)

Is it possible that one or more goblins were working with Voldemort.

If so why?


That makes sense to me. I think individual goblins could be bought onto Voldemorts side. A goblin who is lower down the food chain so to speak. One with not too much hope of getting past being the door guard.

Do the goblins have a special talent in regards to magic? Is there a reason Voldemort would want most of them on his side?

[Weatherby]

Originally posted by Adamslove (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=233072#post233072))
I think what makes them seem like they would join Voldie is because they are usually potrayed as evil. Something Hermione would definetly protest. All those Goblins in littgle kiddy fairy tales, Being an evil race in the lord of the rings. Hblettersyootie or whatever is right they're greed and not evil


I agree.
We shouldn't assume they are evil based on other stories.
Rowling is writing an original story.

But.. what proof do we have that they are greedy?
Are bankers in the muggle world always greedy?

[aiko amaya]

Guess your right, theres no proof that they're greedy. Other than the fact they bet and they aren't all to great about it. Remember the trouble Ludo Bagman got into with them. I think that proves that money is a big influence on them.

[FawkesBox]

I'm thinking that the goblins are on their own side much like the centaurs and that their "loyalty" is questionable (unlike centuars) think of all the Goblin Rebellions we constantly hear about from Prof. Binns

[Hermione]

Goblins only care about the money, they don't care who it's coming from. I don't really think that the Globlins will pick a side.

[dorcasderr]

We think of them as evil because of fairy tales AND the way they look. They also don't act in a friendly manner. But I don't believe they are evil. Just knid of grumpy and devoted to their work. Does anyone know of anything else they do besides banking (and gambling)? I think they'll remain neutral in the coming conflict, no matter who APPEARS to be winning at one time or another. I think they are too wise to take sides and risk picking the losing one, even if one is good and the other bad.

[Filius Flitwick]

They'll manage the money for anyone, I don't think they would ever choose sides. I think they'd prefer the good side, they probably allow the Goblins to keep a bigger percentage.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Have we ever really learned what the "Goblin Rebellions" were about? Who were they rebelling against, another evil lord perhaps?

[aiko amaya]

I would think obression and slavery. People try to force them to do work and stuff, not getting the respect they deserve abuse. That sort of thing, possible treated like secondclass citizens or something. Maybe they weren't allowed to run a bank before.

[jordmundt6]

I think I'll quote Breathless Mahoney here

Tracy: "Who's side are you on?"

Breathless: "The side I'm always on, mine."

That's the goblins' phlosophy. We're in it for us.

[Weatherby]

Originally posted by Adamslove (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=270367#post270367))
I would think obression and slavery. People try to force them to do work and stuff, not getting the respect they deserve abuse. That sort of thing, possible treated like secondclass citizens or something. Maybe they weren't allowed to run a bank before.


I think you may be right.
They were probably not given equal opportunties due to prejudice.
They may not be cuddly but goblins seem to be hard workers.

[jordmundt6]

I get the impression that goblins are so crafty and militant that wizrds (except for idiots like Bagman) tend to err on the side of caution when paying them and not skimp. They know too well what will happen if they anger the goblins.

[supernatural]

i was just looking through my dog eared copy of PS looking for the moment hagrid describes the goblins and gringotts to harry- i swear he mentioned they were greedy, but sharp as they come, something along those lines.
he did say though, "yeah- so yeh'd be mad ter try an' rob it. I'll tell yeh that. Never mess with goblins."
indicating that goblins are dangerous. perhaps they could go bad, but i dont see them taking sides though- they'll probably stay neutral unless one side tries to hurt the money!!!
:coolblue:

[anumati]

I belive the Goblins are on the side which gives them the most power or can give them the most. Right now, the normal (good) wizards are responsible for the government and they have the power - so he goblins stay with them. But once the Dark Wizards prove to be a stronger force or potentially a stronger force - they will defect. This is just my opinion on Goblins from past literature and myth and the impression I get from them.

[jordmundt6]

Yes, a Narnian "the Dwarves are for the Dwarves" policy. They routinely foement rebellion and open conflict, but control and manage all of the wealth that circulates through the wizarding world. They will only choose the side that they see as protecting their own intrest, and in this case that acutally looks like it won't be the Death-Eaters. But remember, Goblins have a general disdain for all humans.

[Gandalf_the_White]

haha, Can you imagine it being a scene like the scene in the Last Battle of the Chronicles of Narnia, all the Goblins sitting on piles of Gold saying we aren't going to be fooled, we are for the Goblins, because no one else is for the Goblins, and them just sitting there killing people on both sides

[zoeydsngwrtr]

I find it very unlikely that the goblins would turn bad. They would be better off working for the governmont and staying on the good side of the wizarding governmont, more money to be made there in the long run.

[Michelle]

Hagrid said in PS that Gringotts is "the safest place in the wizarding world, after Hogwarts perhaps". So do you think that if there was even a little possibility that goblins are on the bad side they would be there? I find it quite unlikely...

[DarlingChild]

Well honestly, I think they would side with whoever presents them with the most benefits, like the Dementors. However, I don't think they care much for getting involved with the affairs of Wizards. *shrugs*

[FawkesBox]

Originally posted by Michelle (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=288659#post288659))
Hagrid said in PS that Gringotts is "the safest place in the wizarding world, after Hogwarts perhaps". So do you think that if there was even a little possibility that goblins are on the bad side they would be there? I find it quite unlikely...


This situation, however, was when the goblins are "loyal" to the wizard'd side- not the other way around

[Mad-I Moody]

Hello everyone. I was re-reading the books over the first week of my summer holiday and I noticed that Goblins are mentioned quite frequently in the books, yet they are somewhat unknown. Professor Binns gives lectures on the Goblin Rebellions, Goblins in Hogsmeade (for the Rebellions), Goblins at Gringotts, Goblins and Ludo Bagman, Goblins and Bill Weasley....

It seems like the only real insight we get into Goblin characteristics is in Hagrid's statement in book one, when he tells Harry "Never mess with goblins," and "you'd be mad ter try and rob [Gringotts]." Winky also has something to say about Goblins, in GoF Chapter 8: "You goes racketing around like this, Dobby, I says, and next thing I hear you's up in front of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures like some common goblin."

So, what I am wondering is, what are your thoughts on Goblins? If there is a war in the wizarding world, whose side will they be on? Do you think we will find out more about the Goblin Rebellions? What is the significance of Goblins?

OK, that's it. Everyone have a wonderful evening! :D :D :D

[Raven]

Good catch. My guess is that They'll take the side that offers them the best deal OR the side that they think will win in the long run. Goblins don't like to lose,

[morsmordre]

To me, the Goblins are just money hungry creatures. Almost every time you hear them mentioned it has something to do with money. Like the Goblins at Gringotts or the ones that were after Bagman to collect.

I doubt we'll read about the Goblin Rebellions or hear more about it in this series. It's something that happened long ago and the only way we'd hear all the details about it is through a "side-story" type book.

[Lestrange]

I don't think that they'll be on anyone's side...In Goblet of Fire, there was a group of Goblins that didn't care that the Dark Mark was up. If they do, some will probably be with Voldemort, and others with Dumbledore.

They would be good allies though, for the good side, I can imagine them fighting dirty...

"...And Griphook kneed Wormtail in the crotch and bit his ankles before running away...."

[Horntail]

From what we normally hear about, goblins are some mean rough creatures. From Bill's comments, though, they do seem to be very self absorbed, and will take whatever position leads to more money. And while they have gone against the wizarding world in the past, now they seem pretty complacent with their position in the world now. I think they will remain neutral unless Gringotts is directly threatend. And at the end of GoF, Dumbledore is out to recruit giants, but makes no mention of Goblins, so their position one way or the other must be known. I tend to think they will not get involved, they are just mentioned so often because they are a cool magical vreature to talk about.

[aiko amaya]

Hmm I remember there used to be a post along the lines of this put it's like old and it hasn't been posted on for a while now. Anyway, I think the goblins will remain indifferent, they won;t pick any sides, they just continue to run the banks. I think the reason why most people would put goblins on the evil side because of other books potraying goblins as evil.

[wolfie]

I think that goblins aren't really on anyone's side, and probably never will be. They're kind of on their own, and don't really care about the conflicts of other people, or if the people that they deal with are good or bad. As discussed in another thread, the goblins didn't care that Sirius took money out of his bank account, even though he was a fugitive.

The goblins are unlike the centaurs however, because even though the centaurs like to keep to themselves, they understand good from bad, and recognize evil (evident in the forest in SS/PS). I wouldn't be surprised if the centaurs chose sides eventually, but I don't think the goblins will.

[rotsiepots]

I'm going to merge this thread with an existing topic on goblins entitled Goblins -- whose side are they on? (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7332) You can find this thread in the Great Hall.

:)

[Picko]

I imagine that Goblins are a kind of "free agent". They'll essentially go to the side which offers more of what they like. I do however think that Goblins perhaps above the petty arguings of wizards and may try to distance themselves from the battle.

[Prof.Aze]

Yeah they probably would turn to the dark side. But as for now i bet that the goblins are still in between. But once one side approach them either the bad or good i think they would join them directly.

[harlle15]

well! i think if voldemort's offer them money ad everything i think they might turn in the dark side.....

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by Prof.Aze (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=345295#post345295))
Yeah they probably would turn to the dark side. But as for now i bet that the goblins are still in between. But once one side approach them either the bad or good i think they would join them directly.

Why would they turn to the dark side? what sings have they had to being evil and bad? They run the bank and they run it well. I don't think that theres any proof they will go either way. I think people might say they will go over to "the dark side" because they are portrayed as evil in other books. The three goats bluff, movies Lord of the rings, but JKR doesn't portray them as evil. Merly good at kepping money.

[Nekomata]

I think that it doesn't matter what side they're on (to them), as long as they get their money. As a matter of fact, I don't think they'd side with any one (it would make it hard for them to earn money from every one) so I think they'd be better off staying nuetral

[Mad-I Moody]

I was just re-reading Book 4, and I came across a comment (Hermione said it) in the chapter "Rita Skeeter's Scoop." She says to Harry and Ron (concerning goblins):

"They're quite capable of dealing with wizards...They're very clever. They're not like House-Elves, who never stick up for themselves."

She mentions Professor Binns' lecture on the goblin rebellions right before that comment. And it seems to me that Prof. Binns doesn't lecture on much else! I think the goblins need to be watched, definitely. Maybe Bill will coax them into siding with the good guys!

[caroline40]

We are constantly being told of goblin rebellions , I presume that this is for a reason after all they must learn about other things in history of magic and why would jk keep mentioning them

Maybe the goblins will rebel again but against who or what Im not sure

[jerb]

For the goblins to side with Voldermort, he needs to offer them more power. I'm not saying he will or won't, but I am sure the goblins will go to whichever side offers them the most power.

And I am almost positive that those goblin rebellions are important. Another rebellion? Extremely possible.

[Pucko]

Originally posted by Cat (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=232821#post232821))
What amount could they be bribed with? At the bank, they sit on top of more money than any wizard could ever own. If they were evil, in the dark magic way, they could nick off with the gold in the vaults. But nothing like that has happened in the series yet.


how do we know they're not nicking money?
either way...they could turn evil but somehow i don't think so

[Doggy]

Somehow I can't see the Ministry of Magic hiring creatures to guard all their money, if there were rumours that these creatures were evil. It doesn't make sense. Then again, we don't know what happened did we? Maybe one of the rebellions was for proper jobs - and this ended up with Gingotts.

[black&potter]

I dont think Goblins are going to take anyones side , It just wouldnt be in there interest . If they were to take sides they wouldnt have the advantage of being able to make money off the other side
I know we still dont really know the true reason why the had there rebellion, but im sure it was for fairness and equal rights. (jobs that suit there abilitys) Granted there do seem grumpy and greedy , but who says you have to be greedy to be good with money.
And lets not forget , there Brand of magic is quite effective in dealling with a wizard , so why would they have a fear of being on the wrong side.
Seems to me thre sie is the right side for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Raven]

Okay there is a thread on this but it is in The Great Hall, (use the search terms "Goblin" and "Voldemort" and you will find it) so I fully expect this threat to be merged with that one, eventually.

Anyway, in one of the books, Professor Binns drones on about the Goblin Wars. In the fifth book, Bill implies that the Goblins aren't really happy with Wizards because they have always been denied certain rights.

[killer4605]

nah i dont think so. goblins are the guys at gringotts, right? i'm pretty sure they would rather stay neutral than risk getting wiped out by the good guys or the bad guys and when the fighting is over, they still control the bank and its a win-win situation.

[Halfred]

I think they'll be divided, I mean, some of them will join the Dark Side (it sounded like Star Wars lol) and others will stay with the wizards (specially Dumbledore) so we might see, who knows?, another Goblin War!!!


Halfred

[Raven]

(In reply to Killer)
LOL! That's certainly true!!!!

[Hufflepuffy]

Goblin Rebellions are mentioned an awful lot. JKR may be forshawdoing something. And the Goblin's don't seem like a cheerful bunch, do they?

[Halfred]

Hey Hufflepuffy Iloved your "Sign" .....Ferris is one of my favorities characters, his movie is simply the Best!!!lol I've been wanting to see this movie again........lol

[Hufflepuffy]

Thanks Halfred! :)

[psychofan]

I agree that the Goblins will be neutral. They seem to be above petty wizard annoyances, lol. If someone (Ministry) tries to force them to take sides, they will probably revolt again!

[HPGramp]

It really comes down to what Goblins want more rights or galleons. If they are after rights then they are going over to Voldemort unless the Ministry makes concessions. If they are after money then staying in the middle (not necessarily the same as neutral) and working both sides is the best financial position. The only way I see Voldemort getting the Goblins is by offering lots of money and rights, and I don't see that happening.

[Pr0nGs]

I think the Goblins are going to get ticked off about the wizard wars and say **** it, close teh bank, steal the gold, and buy the wizards out of England. Griphook will be their leader!

[Klob6]

This seems like it would be a cool plot for Bill and his role in the Order. With the foreshadowing of the Fountain of Magical Creatures in OoTP, it seems like we are set for a lot of subplots involving different magical creatures.

Okay now that I think of it, we have already had many subplots involving house elves, centaurs, giants, and werewolves but I mean in the context of them siding with DD or V.

[Dedalus Diggle]

I agree that the goblins are a wild card. I also think the references to the rebellions is a possible foreshadowing and that the goblins probably have some very legitimate grievances. I am attaching a post I wrote on the Neville and gum wrappers thread where it was suggested that the gum wrappers were a clue from the not-fully-insane Mrs. Longbottom. Part of the intent was to suggest a means for brining the goblins over to the good side and to clear more creeps out of the MoM - perhaps including making Percy take a stand.

Quote:
The Anagram angle - I have come up with a few combinations, but the one I like best is "Goblins were sold tomb bug." Suppose that the goblins had acquired an ancient Egyptian scarab (a bug) which they thought would allow them to acquire loads of hidden gold because it was supposed to be the key to something of great value in an Egyptian tomb. The Longbottoms learned of it and learned that besides any riches that might be there, there was the secret to immortality (although this term could be a misunderstanding from a term like rejuvenation or restoration). Of course, that has been
Voldie's goal all along. Even before he had attacked the Potters, he had gotten several of his people placed in the MoM working toward taking over Gringotts so that he could get access to the scarab and the tomb. Remember the article in Luna's father's paper about Fudge being involved in a plot to take over Gringott's. The Longbottoms were tortured to try to weaken them into being susceptible to the Imperius curse as part of this plot, but they were very resistant and the process was interrupted before it could be completed. They have been making marks on the wrappers which can be decoded to rearrange
the letters to the warning about the scarab - they don't dare do anything more overt due to Lucius Malfoy's connections at St. Mungo's (even though he's in prison, he can either maintain his influence or there are other loyal DE's in place to control things). In Book 6, the trio get to talking with Neville about his parents and ask about the wrappers; Hermione - naturally - recognizes the marks as a code, probably because she has been studying Runes. She decodes it and links it to Egypt. Ron mentions that Bill has been noticing strange goings-on back at his regular job as a curse-breaker in Egypt for Gringotts. The whole DA gets involved in preventing a takeover of Gringotts and Voldie getting the scarab and access to the tomb. Further suggestions to the plot - Flitwick is involved, as I have suggested before that he is either half-goblin or totally goblin (wouldn't he be an outcast in goblin society with his perky, pleasant disposition - just like Hagrid is too gentle and kindly (when he's not angry) to fit in with the giants). Possibly also the scarab is used by the trio to gain access and they find a magical device which facilitates healing of even the things the magical world cannot currently deal with, perhaps especially maladies of the soul, but to wield it requires a special power within the user, and this is Harry's weapon that the Dark Lord knows not.

Okay - I have gone off the deep end there, but no more so than the plots of PoA and GoF

Well, anyway, I think it's pretty nifty, and I have long thought the goblins were ripe for a major role in a book.

P.S. It just occurred to me what an awesome battle you could have with the different sides rocketing around on those railcars at breakneck speed, with dragons down various passages, spells flying back and forth through the darkness, etc. etc. - besides a good read, it would be a special FX movie dream scene. And who wouldn't love to see Bellatrix stumble into the door of Vault 713 (the one that has been empty since PS/SS and can only be safely opened by a Gringott's goblin), where she would fall through the magical door and imprisoned until they checked on the Vault a decade or so later. HEE-HEE

[phoenixsong]

Originally posted by Doggy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=352177#post352177))
Somehow I can't see the Ministry of Magic hiring creatures to guard all their money, if there were rumours that these creatures were evil. It doesn't make sense.

uh, the Ministry doesn't seem too bright in this respect - can you say "Dementors"?

I took a look recently at Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them, and the entire introductory section is really all about how the goblins were constantly trying to undermine the wizards' attempts to classify and organize magical beings, spirits, creatures, etc. Given all the references to the goblin rebellions, and Hermione's conviction that goblins can take care of themselves, they are clearly more than a bunch of bankers. (apologies to any bankers out there!)

One other bit of data: When The Daily Prophet reports the resignation of Griselda Marchbanks and Tiberius Ogden from the Wizengamot in protest over the appointment of the Hogwarts High Inquisitor, they refer to a story in the same issue about Marchbanks links to "subversive goblin groups." Clearly they are trying to give Marchbanks a bad name, but this is important information, since it probably means that Marchbanks works closely with goblin groups, perhaps trying to secure their rights and privileges.

[snowman]

i think volide will want them because they can make weapons for his DE. we learnt that they can make helments which can't be destoryed (Hagrid giving a present to the gaints) maybe they can make more powerful weapons which would be a big help for DE.

[Dedalus Diggle]

Okay, a few posts above I suggested a possible plot. Since then I got motivated to write it up. :D It's mostly based on canon, with a good bit of speculation consistent with canon as well. It pulls togather quite a number of disparate elements about goblins, elves, and the politics of the magical world.

It's at http://cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=19412

If you read it, please comment - the feedback link is at the intro.

[Jill]

Goblins tend to show a dislike for the wizards attitude but I do not think they do so for there beliefs. The sourcers stone for example was kept safe there for quite some time and when you consider that Voldemort could have taken that stone much sooner than his failed attempt then you could say that the goblins had it safe and safe because they knew who was after it.

If they where working for Voldemort, the goblins would have just handed the stone over but they choose to protect it. That to me shows a loyality for Dumbledore because the minute Dumbledores name was mentioned the goblin in question jumped to the comand and showed an kind of important respect for his wishes.

So I believe the goblins will either keep out of the war or take Dumbledores side.

[snowman]

what about a split in sides by the goblins the ones how want freedom will probaly join voldie but the others belive in dubldore stick by him.

Mr wealsy said a faimly of goblins where killed why?

why would vodie want goblins i don't think it would be for money the DE (malfoys) have plenty

[Jill]

what about a split in sides by the goblins the ones how want freedom will probaly join voldie but the others belive in dubldore stick by him.

Mr wealsy said a faimly of goblins where killed why?

why would vodie want goblins i don't think it would be for money the DE (malfoys) have plenty

Yes I forgot about that line, it would make sence for a split similar to what might happen with the house elfs. I do not know why a family of goblins where killed but in the history of the wizarding world it was reported that there was indeed a war between wizards and goblins. Now goblins are very powerful and magical, that is why they guard the wizards money in gringotts bank. They use there magic to prevent all other wizards from braking in, so they must be very powerful creatures. I think your right a split might occur, infact I think all species involved in this war are going to be split in the good versus evil style.

[jordmundt6]

The goblins are neutral. They are, as ever, on their own side. They want their own rights and have always felt shunted to one side. They have been very aggressive in the past, but since they've become the designated accounting establishment, they've become more quietly political. However, they have experienced the species-ism of the likes of Fudge and Umbridge. It's been the institutional response for centuries. If they are offered freedoms (as Lupin says) they'll support the lay wizards. They don't have particular affinity for the DEs becuase they've been victimized.

They probably look down on the cousins, the House Elves for their supine stance, but their independence is a good thing.

[periwinkle-blue]

Well, I do believe that the goblins are bidding their time with something big to happen, and as we know in GoF, they like taking high risk, i.e. gambling, so I have some doubts about them staying on neutral ground for long. They fought wars to reach their current status, and I think they don't mind another strategic moment to gain another more step of that priviledge.

However, whether it's the good or the dark side they chose to side with, I don't really have a solid preference. It's more likely that they would wait a little bit more till they see a clearer picture of which side would gave them the highest benefits, but I'm leaning towards them joining Dumbledore's league rather than Voldermort's force. It's just the matter of how close or how easy their correspondence with each other, and frankly, Dumbledore has better advantages in gaining an ally with them.

[jordmundt6]

They like sponsoring high risk, not taking it. They're the bookies. They take the money that others bet.

[Jill]

They like sponsoring high risk, not taking it. They're the bookies. They take the money that others bet.

That is very thought provoking as you could write, except there is this one little niggling problem with your theory. It has been documented that in the wizarding HP world, the goblins in the past wage a huge war against wizards and I am affraid money around at that time and they were not taking bets. Unless they bet on themselfs winning the war against wizards. :)

[jordmundt6]

Fighting for independence is supposed to be the same as gambling? With regard to gamesmanship, they are the bookies in that respect. Wars are a different matter. And goblins have always been considered highly crafty and unlikely to take the risks without insulation and political moves.

[Serpentine]

One other bit of data: When The Daily Prophet reports the resignation of Griselda Marchbanks and Tiberius Ogden from the Wizengamot in protest over the appointment of the Hogwarts High Inquisitor, they refer to a story in the same issue about Marchbanks links to "subversive goblin groups." Clearly they are trying to give Marchbanks a bad name, but this is important information, since it probably means that Marchbanks works closely with goblin groups, perhaps trying to secure their rights and privileges.

Exactly, Marchbanks. :agree: The very very old witch who was Dumbledore's Transfiguration examiner (commenting about his very creative magic), and also examined Harry during OWLs. In Divination he told her that she'd "shortly be meeting a round, dark, soggy stranger, and rounded off the whole fiasco by mixing up the life and head lines on her palm and informing her that she ought to have died the previous Tuesday" (OotP, Bloomsbury, p.632ff.).

I read somewhere (Mugglenet, HP-Sleuths) that the funny predictions made by Harry and Ron, from PoA onwards, seem to be uncannily coming true after some time. Ron being drowned and a "sudden wealth" prediction for Harry in GoF, Ron's Quidditch and the attack of something "marshmallow-like" in OotP... :scared: I have a funny feeling that Harry actually passed that OWL, and something almost killed Marchbanks in some goblin encounter that Tuesday. Also the round stranger could be a goblin emissary she was supposed to contact. With her goblin contacts mentioned by the Prophet it could be possible, and as she seems to know DD very well, she might be doing it for the Order, along with Bill who seems to have a similar task.

If they where working for Voldemort, the goblins would have just handed the stone over but they choose to protect it. That to me shows a loyality for Dumbledore because the minute Dumbledores name was mentioned the goblin in question jumped to the comand and showed an kind of important respect for his wishes.

True, and their magic does make Gringotts a very safe place, the safest after Hogwarts according to Hagrid. And yet someone managed to break into Gringotts, trying to steal the Stone (which luckily had already been taken away) - in spite of the special safety door that could be opened by goblin fingers alone, and in spite of the complicated way to find the vault. How? Insider knowledge, most probably. Even if most of the Gringotts goblins (or goblins in general) are either neutral or supporting Dumbledore, there seems to be the odd one out ready to be bought by Voldemort's forces. Alternatively I can see a split among the goblins too. But I think they'd come into the open with it as late as possible, trying to keep neutral with doors open towards both sides as long as possible.

[Jill]

Exactly, Marchbanks. :agree: The very very old witch who was Dumbledore's Transfiguration examiner (commenting about his very creative magic), and also examined Harry during OWLs. In Divination he told her that she'd "shortly be meeting a round, dark, soggy stranger, and rounded off the whole fiasco by mixing up the life and head lines on her palm and informing her that she ought to have died the previous Tuesday" (OotP, Bloomsbury, p.632ff.).

I read somewhere (Mugglenet, HP-Sleuths) that the funny predictions made by Harry and Ron, from PoA onwards, seem to be uncannily coming true after some time. Ron being drowned and a "sudden wealth" prediction for Harry in GoF, Ron's Quidditch and the attack of something "marshmallow-like" in OotP... :scared: I have a funny feeling that Harry actually passed that OWL, and something almost killed Marchbanks in some goblin encounter that Tuesday. Also the round stranger could be a goblin emissary she was supposed to contact. With her goblin contacts mentioned by the Prophet it could be possible, and as she seems to know DD very well, she might be doing it for the Order, along with Bill who seems to have a similar task.



True, and their magic does make Gringotts a very safe place, the safest after Hogwarts according to Hagrid. And yet someone managed to break into Gringotts, trying to steal the Stone (which luckily had already been taken away) - in spite of the special safety door that could be opened by goblin fingers alone, and in spite of the complicated way to find the vault. How? Insider knowledge, most probably. Even if most of the Gringotts goblins (or goblins in general) are either neutral or supporting Dumbledore, there seems to be the odd one out ready to be bought by Voldemort's forces. Alternatively I can see a split among the goblins too. But I think they'd come into the open with it as late as possible, trying to keep neutral with doors open towards both sides as long as possible.

Thats a good idea. I was just thinking about that and well, the thing is, Voldemort and all the DE seem very rich. If that is true then perhaps they are the goblins best customers and if Lucius is anything to go by they might be. Goblins are greedy as Hagrid said, so perhaps this greed may cause the goblins to side Voldemort in the end. Its the kind of thing Voldemort would do, feed off someones greed to get something back in return.

[Serpentine]

Thats a good idea. I was just thinking about that and well, the thing is, Voldemort and all the DE seem very rich. If that is true then perhaps they are the goblins best customers and if Lucius is anything to go by they might be. Goblins are greedy as Hagrid said, so perhaps this greed may cause the goblins to side Voldemort in the end. Its the kind of thing Voldemort would do, feed off someones greed to get something back in return.

Er, I never said that "the goblins" will side with Voldemort. :) I only pointed out that there may be the odd one out willing to be bought, somewhere in the vaults of Gringotts. As for the rest of them, I think they'll try to remain neutral as long as possible to have the advantages from both sides (and yes, the Malfoy family would be a major customer... how many other Dark and rich families would be, such as the Blacks?). And the promptness with which the goblin at the counter reacted to Hagrid mentioning DD's name suggests that they have at least great respect for Dumbledore.

Just wondering... where is Hagrid supposed to have said that goblins are greedy? I remember him to have said in PS/SS that you'd be crazy to mess with goblins, and in GoF (I think) Hermione says that they are able to fend for themselves, unlike the house-elves. Binns' Goblin Rebellions seem to be proof for it. Money seems to be important for them, just like for any banker or bookkeeper. But that doesn't necessarily make them greedy as a species. Besides they have all the money of the wizards in their vaults, nobody can access it just like that without them. How much would Voldemort have to pay to buy them? More than just a bit of pocket-money, I guess...

[Jill]

Er, I never said that "the goblins" will side with Voldemort. :) I only pointed out that there may be the odd one out willing to be bought, somewhere in the vaults of Gringotts. As for the rest of them, I think they'll try to remain neutral as long as possible to have the advantages from both sides (and yes, the Malfoy family would be a major customer... how many other Dark and rich families would be, such as the Blacks?). And the promptness with which the goblin at the counter reacted to Hagrid mentioning DD's name suggests that they have at least great respect for Dumbledore.

Just wondering... where is Hagrid supposed to have said that goblins are greedy? I remember him to have said in PS/SS that you'd be crazy to mess with goblins, and in GoF (I think) Hermione says that they are able to fend for themselves, unlike the house-elves. Binns' Goblin Rebellions seem to be proof for it. Money seems to be important for them, just like for any banker or bookkeeper. But that doesn't necessarily make them greedy as a species. Besides they have all the money of the wizards in their vaults, nobody can access it just like that without them. How much would Voldemort have to pay to buy them? More than just a bit of pocket-money, I guess...

Well that depends upon how wealthy Voldemort is and if he pays them with money or something else, perhaps something offered that they where fighting for in the past, that they did not succeed in getting. There independence because they too do not have that. I thought that was what the statue was all about. Wizard supremacy and half-elf, centaur and goblin repression...

Might have got my wires crossed with the greedy goblins, I think it was mean and I am sorry, I do not know where that came from... :)

We do not know enough about goblins yet to really make a proper judgement but from past experiences, it does suggest that there was a problem and that the problem was never resolved when it came to goblins getting whatever they wanted, independence.

[deadlocked]

They are in it for themselves and only themselves

[themushygod]

If they go evil it could spell SERIOUS trouble

Voldemort will have his ranks increased by hundreds if not thousands of very capable warriors we know that goblins can take care of them selves (herm said so in regards to the goblin riots)

also with access to there money cut off what about the wizarding econemy this might not sound serious but imagine if war broke out today and your countrys funds were cut off war costs money and there will be serious consequenses to this happening

the goblins have dragons in gringots (so we suspect) what kind of control do they have of them A dragon is a serious problem for either side

if they go good

then MoM gains a powerful ally but other then that its not going to be much diffrence


Neutral
then no diffrence


Form the own Allience Attack both sides

Intresting

Goblins have been denied frredom for a long time now Perhaps this time of strife would be a opertunistic time to strike against wizards perhaps forming an allience with the Centaurs

The centaurs we know want to move against wizards they feel they are the supiror race and if working with the goblins who also want there rights denied by wizards they could form an extremly dangerous force

This result would through the wizarding would into utter chaos not only would they be faced with the attack of voldemort but goblins and centaurs
aswell also once again without acces to the funds this could spell serious trouble to wizard kind


just my 2 knuts

[Serpentine]

The centaurs we know want to move against wizards they feel they are the supiror race and if working with the goblins who also want there rights denied by wizards they could form an extremly dangerous force

Um, do we know that the centaurs "want to move against wizards"? They don't like them, that's true, but I don't get the impression that they're planning war against them. Rather that they want to be left to their own devices.

Apart from that, good analysis, themushygod. If the goblins were to join the Dark side it would spell serious trouble indeed. But they don't seem to be stupid either. A family of goblins has been killed by Voldemort's minions (I wonder why?), so I guess they'd be very suspicious of any offers to join any side, check them thoroughly (What's in it for us? Can the offerer be trusted to be true to his/her word? How probable is their victory?) and take their decision only after careful consideration.

Which doesn't leave out the possibility though that some individuals may have a different opinion. Look at Firenze who did join Dumbledore in OotP. :)

[Baron_G]

Why goblins? What about red caps? Maybe these dark creatures are a cousin species whom goblins hate.

[Doggy]

If they go evil it could spell SERIOUS trouble
I don't think it's about the goblins going evil, in that sense of the word. I don't think the goblins care about anyone but themselves. "Themselves" as in money, power, rights etc.

The problem is that Voldemort can, just as with Dementors, offer goblins much more than the Ministry is willing to do. The Ministry's got a whole country of people to think of, trying to keep everything fair, and as many people as possible happy, while Voldemort doesn't have those problems. He doesn't care about keeping a high popularity rating, as long as he gets what he wants. He can really offer the goblins almost anything in return for their services. The question is if the goblins will accept.

[lanifiel]

Personally I see the Goblins as not wanting money exactly, but rather wanting to be the ones who control it all. I dont think that they can be bribed in the tradtional sense of giving them money, I doubt that satisfies their desires, but rather they need to be given ultimate control of all money, as they already seem to control the bank I think that they are stable in their position which to me is neutral right now, I'm not sure what it would take for them to be bought for one side or the other :)

[Nycade]

Good point, Tane. So we can infer that it's possible the goblins might at least be tempted to turn to Voldemort's side, but the fact remains of what they would need to be convinced to join any one side... money, power, etc. I personally don't think they'd care about money, because they could easily get to any they want right inside Gringotts if they wanted to.

[Cat]

Well the goblins could loose control over the money stakes if the MoM goes to war. Assuming that finances are put aside for such emergency situations in the wizarding world, the bank or goblins may not be so forth willing to support the war incase the MoM lost. I think it might come down to who can offer the best control of finances and deal toward repaying any money loaned with interest back for such an emergency.


Evil overlords can't have much to offer in terms of hard cash. Can you imagine Voldemort having much money? If money is what their lives revolve around, then money is what they can trust. Voldemort only gives promises.

And surely they would think of the long-term prospects.

I can easily picture a split between the goblin race. Not a split of morals or of loyalties, but of who they think will win. The winning side is the most prosperous, after all :D

But it's possible that I have misjudged the goblins.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

I can imagine Voldemort easily getting money. If he can get into the maximum security parts of Gringotts, he can surely get all the money he wants - from enemies, from Malfoy et al, from banks, from tombs, etc.

[Cat]

I can imagine Voldemort easily getting money. If he can get into the maximum security parts of Gringotts, he can surely get all the money he wants - from enemies, from Malfoy et al, from banks, from tombs, etc.

Yes, but robbed and donated money wouldn't really last long. He doesn't make money. He doesn't have a proper income. I don't think he could promise one for the goblins, either. Being evil isn't a very steady job. A Voldemort regime would be interesting, but not too reliable.

I can't really imagine him being a burglar, anyway. It seems too petty. Evil as he is, he has too much class for that.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Oh, he wouldn't be the one stealing the money. He'd get other people to.

[Fuchsia]

Lucius has enough money to buy off, but that's something of an investment for him. He'll get something out of it.

Goblins could always take the money out of Gringotts themselves.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Would they, though?

I think they're pretty ethical, actually. Hardline, sure, but immoral? I don't think so.

[Fuchsia]

It all depends on who is in charge of them. If they had a militant anti-wizard leader...

[jordmundt6]

Like who? Like a goblin version of Bane? See the thing is guys like Bane and Fudge are going to get chewed up and spit out when their elitist, head-in-the-sand, we-are-above-it-all attitudes lead their respective nations into mortal peril. I hope Firenze is forgiven for behaving like a sensible person and that the other centaurs listen to him.

About the goblins--I've said it before, I'll say it again. The goblins are in it for themselves. They'll take the best deal offered them and protect their own. I have no idea what sort of concessions have yet to be made, but I feel they must be made. It's too bad that the breach between wizard and Muggle worlds is final but with the general Muggle attitude, I guess I can understand why. In fact, I think Hagrid's closer to the truth than anyone. If wizards and witches weren't persecuted, they'd be mobbed for magical assistance in solving problems and their quite capable of managing on their own, as Arthur Weasley well knows. It's good to know that Hermione was supposed to have a sister, it means that her parents, while ciphers at the moment, are actually her parents. It would be good to really meet them in Book Six.

[Perdita]

I think of them like the Swiss Bank. They don't care who owns the money or where it comes from, it's money. I think the Goblins just love handling the money. They dont' really get to control the money (market does). They manage money and how it's stored. They like working with it, that's all.

If they cared about material wealth and luxury they wouldn't be working in a bank. They'd just earn a lot of their own money and then go live off of it.

[la_ginny]

Here's an interesting tidbit, from Fantastic Beasts. In the many conferences and whatnot about defining "What is a beast?", the goblins caused trouble, if for no other reason than to cause trouble.
Burdock Muldoon, Chief of the Wizards' Council in the fourteenth century, decreed that any member of the magical community that walked on two legs would henceforth the granted the status of "being," all others to remain "beasts." In a spirit of friendship he summoned all "beings" to meet with the wizards at a summit... The meeting hall was crammed with goblins who had brought with them as many two-legged creatures as they could find. The goblins brought pixies, fairies, hags, trolls and other annoying creatures to cause trouble.
Later:
"Beings," she declared, were those who could speak the human tongue. All those who could make themselves understood to Council members were therefore invited to join the next meeting...Trolls who had been taught a few simple sentences by the goblins proceeded to destroy the hall as before.
And then once more, when International Confederation of Wizards was debating which species of beasts would be hidden from Muggles, it says:
At last agreement was reached.*
*footnote: Except by the goblins.

Seems like not only are the goblins in it for themselves, but they love conflict, and they don't care who they aggravate in the process. If they get courted by the Order and the DEs for support, they will be flippant and vague, and try to do whatever they can to cause confusion about where their allegiances lie.

I doubt Voldy and gang will be too patient with them. They could just blast into Gringotts and take what they wanted, I guess. It would take some powerful dark magic, though.

[Knut4UrThghts]

In Goblet of Fire, Voldemort mentions that he will have his Death Eaters with him, the giants, the Dementors, "and an army of creatures whom all fear." When I first read this, I thought he was reiterating what he had just said, but I think he is referring to Goblins.
Hermione mentions that "goblins can handle wizards" when they see some with Bagman. The Goblin Rebellions are mentioned over and over again throughout Goblet of Fire.
I know LV treated some goblins badly, however, I think in the end, they will side with him as it is obvious they are very greedy and love gold and treasure. The real question is whether the Gringotts goblins will join him, too. He has already demonstrated he can break in. Anyway, that's my theory. I think GoF is setting us up for another big goblin rebellion with LV leading the charge.

I also think it's a good point that Quirrell was able to "break into" Gringotts. Griphook clearly states that if anything OTHER than a goblin tried to open the door, they'd be sucked inside with no way out. I agree with the idea that some goblins are already working for LV.

[mevam]

The goblins in the series remind of the Switzerland in WWII, because of the keen interest and reputation in banking and the world of finances, and also because of their supposed neutrality in the great conflict of sides. I doubt that the goblins really care about any group besides themselves, as they haven't shown undying allegiance to either Dumbledore or Voldemort. As the following excerpt shows, goblins could be motivated to a large extent by greed but probably more so by their want for power and status:

'They're not giving anything away yet,' said Bill. 'I still can't work out whether or not they believe he's back. Course, they might prefer not to take sides at all. Keep out of it.'
'I'm sure they'd never go over to You-Know-Who,' said Mr Weasley, shaking his head. They've suffered losses too; remember that goblin family he murdered last time, somewhere near Nottingham?'

'I think it depends what they're offered,' said Lupin. 'And I'm not talking about gold. If they're offered the freedoms we've been denying them for centuries they're going to be tempted. Have you still not had any luck with Ragnok, Bill?'

'He's feeling pretty anti-wizard at the moment,' said Bill, 'he hasn't stopped raging about the Bagman business, he reckons the Ministry did a cover-up, those goblins never got their gold from him, you know -'


Lupin has the impression that goblins are after more than gold, and he does make a good case for how the Order can hope to garner the Goblins' support on their side. When Dumbledore mentioned in one of the books that if you want to know what a man is like, see how he treats his inferiors, he was right, because the supposedly "good" side going against Voldemort can never hope to stand for anything better than him if they abuse their inferiors like goblins as they do.

[Dedalus Diggle]

Mevam, your quote about the goblin family that was wiped out makes me wonder if there is something significant about the site being near Nottingham. If Voldemort had an entire family wiped out - especially one that was not actually defying him, except maybe in trying to keep something they had - it's a good bet he did so because they had something he desperately wanted. Probably nothing to do with Robin Hood, but are there any English or Anglophiles who know if there are any particularly intriguing ancient sites near Nottingham? We only have two books left. I think there's a good bet that one or the other, probably 6, will deal with healing the rift with the goblins, so they will no longer be thought of as 'inferiors.' It could be some object the wiped-out goblin family excavated near Nottingham that draws Harry (he sticks his nose into everything, doesn't he?) into assisting the goblins and securing their alliance. Any ideas?

Edit: Remember also that JKR has said that there is a Celtic burial ground under or near Hogwarts castle and that it is significant (enough so to tell Cuaron not to put a graveyard near the Whomping Willow) - could this also have something to do with whatever it was that got the goblin family massacred?

[Rattan]

Goblins will probably remain neutral. Better to remain neutral than gamble with their lives.

[LouisaB]

Mevam, your quote about the goblin family that was wiped out makes me wonder if there is something significant about the site being near Nottingham. If Voldemort had an entire family wiped out - especially one that was not actually defying him, except maybe in trying to keep something they had - it's a good bet he did so because they had something he desperately wanted. Probably nothing to do with Robin Hood, but are there any English or Anglophiles who know if there are any particularly intriguing ancient sites near Nottingham?

What's around Nottingham? Well obviously Nottingham Castle, Robin Hood and all that. Lord Byron's ancestral home Newstead Abbey is in the County. D H Lawrence was from somewhere around the area too, though he might have come from over the border in Derbyshire. I tend to forget where he was from exactly. Maybe she just chose Nottingham because of several writer connections in the area.

There are not many, if any, ancient sites in the area. At least not that I am aware of. However one thing that springs to mind is underground. That is where the goblin vaults are and Nottinghamshire is pretty much a big mining county. Or rather it was. A large number of the pits have shut down over the last few decades. Wonder if there she is planning on having something happening underground. There are other threads with theories about the vaults of Gringotts and the lake being connected. Possibly connected to somewhere underground in Nottinghamshire since there are a lot of mines.

Nottinghamshire isn't really famous for much other than Robin Hood and I don't think that he and his merry men are going to be making an appearance any time soon.



I actually stopped by this thread after being directed here from the general whose side will the magical creatures take thread. What I posted there about the goblins is as follows.

What about the Goblins? They run the wizard bank and are not the most approachable of creatures. Suppose they decided to join Voldemort. That would really put a spanner in the works for the wizarding world. Assuming all the wizards use that bank, or that goblins run all the wizard banks, look at the implications if they switched sides....

Any other secured magical items like the philosopher's stone could go to Voldemort making him far more powerful.

No access to money to buy school books...poorer education for the younger generation and given time Voldemort would soon have no one with the skill and knowledge to take him on.

The only ones able to access the money would be DEs like Malfoy who are already bribing people at the MoM. Imagine if the other less corruptable people were unable to access their money and someone like Malfoy came to them with a bribe. Pretty tempting and it would mean more control for the DEs and Voldemort in the MoM.

I just can't make up my mind as to which side they will go on but suspect that they will remain neutral or join the Order. Could be interesting if they joined Voldemort though.


Any opinions on that?

[Gwenog Jones]

Has anyone wondered how Quirell was able to break in? It seems like you would need some inside help

a. knowing which vault
b. finding the vault
c. opening the vault (remember it could only be opened by goblin fingers, there was no keyhole)

Is it possible that one or more goblins were working with Voldemort.

If so why?


Thats a good point Jessica. But, LV is an extremely powerful wizard, and I'm sure he could have done it using his own dark magic.

[Tane]

Well honestly, I think they would side with whoever presents them with the most benefits, like the Dementors. However, I don't think they care much for getting involved with the affairs of Wizards. *shrugs*

As already mentioned Goblins don't like wizard but then neither do centaurs so perhaps there is an alliance between these two species if they want to wage war against the wizarding world. The centaurs will game freedom from such an alliance and the Goblins there gold then again money is not the only thing a Goblin craves for, why with money comes power so one must ask whether it is money and power that a Goblin can be bribed with. If the later is true then Voldemort may be able to offer the Goblins what they want, both a pieace of the money and power provided once he gains control of the wizarding world. I mean all Voldemort needs to say is that the wealth of the ministry and good wizards through out the land will belong to the Goblins just as long as Voldemort's people retain what is there’s.

[jen15poms]

Well currently, wizards have the goblins running Gringotts Bank. However, if they joined forces with Voldemort, they would likely be given much more power than they have now. He could offer them more outlets for their energy than just protecting people's gold. They don't seem like the most friendly things in the world...I certainly woudln't want to come across one if he was in league with Voldemort!

[jenhuc07]

Goblins are clever, I wouldn't expect them to side with anything. There is a refrence to that in the books something like "Goblins won't side with Voldemort, remember he killed a family of them" I don't have my books on hand, but I'm positive that's in there.

[LouisaB]

Since posting the previous message I have been trying to think of anything else ancient or even old around the Nottingham area. This is all that I can come up with.

Nottingham has the oldest pub in England - can't imagine that that would ever be relevant.

On the underground theory there are extensive caves beneath the city.

And on very VERY vague references Slab Square in the city centre has two large statues of lions in it. A VERY loose Griffindor connection if you are really clutching at straws.

[filius]

I don't think the goblins will take sides. They will mind their own bussiness and keep on with their banking. If Voldemort cause them a great grievience however, the will oppose him but not join forces with Dumbledore.

[TerrierMom]

Their own side. I suspect their interests will coincide with the interests of the Ministry and the good, so they'll ally with that side.

[GrangerExpress]

I've always been under the impression that as long as the MOM doesn't give them a reason to go Voldemort, then they won't.

[Elrod Ubramowic]

Way back in Book 1 when Harry enters Gringott's for the first time the doorman is wearing livery of scarlet (red) and gold. This is the first time in the entire series these colors are used together. We later learn these colors are associated with Gryffindor and phoenixes. Can we infer from this which way the goblins' loyalties lay?

Another way of looking at the issue is, what do the goblins have to gain or lose by backing either side? Unfortunately, we do not know exactly what grievances the goblins want rectified so we are forced to make educated guesses. I can not see as how the goblins would have much to gain from backing LV. He has shown little regard for those he considers inferior beings, and he has demonstrated a willingness to lie to them to advance his own purposes. One would assume that gold and treasure would lose some of their importance in a world dominated by LV as he values magical power above all else. If the goblins' main goal is to have the freedom to torment and abuse muggles or something else that does not interfere with LV's plans, then they would have pretty good motivation for backing LV, but what would they risk losing? The obvious thing they risk losing by backing LV, should he fail to succeed, is control of Gringott's. That is a lot for them to risk.

If the goblins oppose LV, and LV is defeated, what do they stand to gain? First, they will retain control of Gringott's. Second, they will have earned goodwill with the MoM and the wizarding community. Third, they may get additional rights previously denied them by the wizarding community. What do they have to lose if they oppose LV and LV is victorious? Obviously, LV's enmity which will have a high and probably painful cost.

The only other option is for the goblins to try and remain neutral. This runs the risk of alienating both sides, and there can be no assurances the winners will not seek retribution.

Being the practical sorts they are portrayed as, I would expect the goblins to try and determine an expected payout for each result. They will assess the odds of either side winning, and the value to the goblins of that event occurring depending on the side chosen. Whichever result has the highest expected payout is the one the goblins choose, even if it means attempting neutrality.

[Secretofshadows]

I think that they are on both sides . I think most of them are on Voldemorts side because its seems that alot of Goblins seem to dislike most good wizards or witchs. I think alot of the Goblins at Gringgotts will join the good side.

[FredWeasleyJr]

if Goblins go dark then the good witches and wizards are screwed because they will lose a lot of gold, i dont think theyre bad because only a goblin could open vault 713, if they were bad then voldie would have the stone fast as 123

[Remus Black]

I think the goblins will join Voldemort. Their requirements to live are money and power, and Voldemort has both, I think (does he have money?)

[LexiBlack]

I would say that the goblins are neutral. They don't seem to need anything so there isn't really anything that the good side or Voldemort could give to the goblins to entice them to one side or the other.

[Luna_Anne]

I think currently the goblins are on neither side. They aren't for Voldemort, but neither are they for the good side, considering what the Ministry has done to them in the past.

[Kevin]

The Goblins will side with ethier Dumbledore or Voldemort. Depending on how the balance of power shifts in the next book. They also don't care where the money comes from. So they will be on no one's side but their own. Profits before ethics, from what we know of the Goblins so far.

[arcanus]

I don't think they would go on Voldemort's side just because of money. They are basically in control of all circulating wizarding money and they are actually making it, so I can't see the point to ally with Voldie just for that. After all he had killed some Goblin families. Nevertheless they could join him for something else.
In the quote Mevam provides in her post Lupin mentioned that they might be tempted if Voldemort promised them some of the freedoms they've always wanted. He might be talking about giving them the rights to use wands. They don't seem to be allowed to use them right now and I guess it would be very tempting for them if they were offered this.

[enchantedgerbil]

I think goblins, like Slytherins, will join the side that will most benefit them. They seem a dodgy lot, but I don't think of them as evil.

[RemusLupinFan]

I agree that the goblins are in it for themselves- they will likely be on the side that benefits them the most. As we've seen from the numerous goblin rebellions and uprisings there have been, it seems to me that in this war, they will choose the side that promises them rights and freedoms. As Lupin says in the quote that mevam posted, it will depend on what they are offered. I imagine it would be very beneficial for Voldemort to promise the goblins exactly what they want, even if he doesn't intend to give it to them, just to get their support- I can see Voldemort doing something like this. For now, I think the goblins are waiting to see which side makes the best offer, so to speak.

[Michael_22]

There are some very good points to this topic. I doubt goblins will go over just considering that Voldemort has killed several goblin families. But if you skim through all of your hp books you will notice that a lot about goblins in the Daily Prophet is always said. They will be a big influence in the war in my opinion. This will give the Order a big edge. Dumbledore has confidence in the goblins because he even trusted them with the sorcerers stone.(for a while) So with all the evidence laid out before us in the past books I have been lead to a conclusion that Dumbledore will sway them on their side when the desperate time comes in the war for their help. Hopefully with the goblins and house elves(different topic) the Order can turn the tables on the Death Eaters.

[Diary]

I think some goblins will side with Dumbledore and the rest will side with Voldy