Hot Pursuit of Sirius! Why couldn't the Ministry find him?

[Siriusly Remus]

I did a search for this and didn't find anything that someone else had posted. I also didn't know where to post this, so I hope the Common Room is the right place for it.

The concept was touched upon by Barb, the author of the Psychic Serpent series (very very good-go read if you haven't done so, on Schnoogle). My question has to do with the fact that the Ministry of Magic tried (and still is trying) to find Sirius, but they can't seem to catch him. Now, owls aren't that fast of flyers, I wouldn't think-especially not when compared to a first rate Firebolt, right? So why can't someone send a post owl to Black, and then follow it? By air, by ground, by tracking charm of some sort...surely there would be a way to get the owl to TAKE them to Sirius, right? Does that make sense? After all, Harry sends owls, Hedwig and school ones, to his godfather pretty frequently in the fourth book. So why can't the Ministry do the same? For that matter, would an owl fly to Voldemort, now that he is "back"?

Eh, just bringing up a wild point, I know, but it's weird. What do you think?

[Magpie]

I think Dumbledore may have done something to protect Sirius from being found, I don't know but it seems like something he would do to protect an innocent man. That is a long sentence.

[Jinxie Cat]

I think JKR, if she wanted Sirius to be caught, wouldn't approach the situation like that. No offense, but it is kind of far-fetched.. But then again you've brought up a really good point, not only have I never thought of that..... But it could actually work!

[bubblesofdeath88]

I was thinking the same thing. Like with Voldemort he got sent an owl, so cant they find him that way too? or anybody for that matter.

[FoolOnTheHill]

I agree with Magpie. We went for almost four books without knowing that Harry was protected when he's with the Dursley's. So, maybe Dumbledore has done a protection spell on Sirius that we haven't found out about yet.

[Magpie]

I really hope Dumbledore is protecting Sirius. Maybe he's his Secret Keeper? Who knows. Hey, a question, if your secret keeper dies, does your secret die with them? Does no one ever find you, or what? Any good theories?

[Weatherby]

Sirius may just be really good at hiding.
He allowed himself to be "seen" in areas and perhaps the tropical areas aren't as populated with wizards.

Harry noticed he was looking extremely thin again in GoF. He didn't go out for food or anything I imagine.

[1MelissaPotter]

He must have a means of not being see such as the Fidelus Charm (I think thats right) or an invisibility cloak or something else. Either way we can all probably agree that Dumbledore is helping adn as long as DDs helping him he won't be found easily.

And as Magpie said about if your secret keeper dies does your secret die with him. I think that the charm would be broken since the person is dead, or that when they die they might change the keeper.

[Linda]

Perhaps there's some rule, possibly helped by magic, that you can't follow an owl. But what would be the benefit of that to good people? That rule would only help those who wish to remain hidden. This reminds me of the argument we had in here in the U. S. right after 9/11. We might be safer and catch terrorists if the government could look into our lives more (see what we're downloading, listen on conversations). What we give up is privacy.

But back to Sirius...Fudge probably didn't want to expend the resources (time and energy) to find him. To me, Fudget just does things that will benefit his career. So, when it's re-election time, he'll try to do something dramatic like find Sirius.

[Jinxie Cat]

Originally posted by Linda (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=249430#post249430))
But back to Sirius...Fudge probably didn't want to expend the resources (time and energy) to find him. To me, Fudget just does things that will benefit his career. So, when it's re-election time, he'll try to do something dramatic like find Sirius.

I agree with everything you said here! Fudge will only do something if it will help out his career. And now since Voldemort's back I think people will spend a lot more time worrying about that than Sirius Black!

[Magpie]

But you have to remember, Fudge thinks that Sirius is Voldemorts #1 man. Anyway, does Fudge even believe that Voldemort has come back? Just something to ponder.

[pasalita]

Off to the Great Hall this thread goes!

[GrangerGal]

I don't think Fudge really wants to believe that Voldie is back. And I agree that Fudge only does what is best for his career and Voldie coming back is NOT good for his career. So basically what I am trying to say is that... Fudge is a terrible political hound who only cares about votes.
Now to get back on track... In the US, we have pretty strict laws concerning the postal system b/c it would be an invasion of privacy. For example opening someone else's mail is a crimal offense. If "good" wizards can follow the owls to "bad" wizards than "bad" ones can do the same thing. So Voldie could find wizards in the same way. Therefore I do not think it would be possible to follow the owls. Plus there has to be some sort of magic protecting the owls or else they wouldn't make it to their destinations. But then again Sirius did say switch owls so they can't track him down. Who knows!

[Benzo]

GragerGal. your opinion is close to mine. Maybe some wizard are protected from owls like some sites are protected from other wizards or Muggles. Possible the owls send letters to only full humans and Sirius is often 'disguised' as a dog and Voldemort was not fully human of to now.

[GrangerGal]

Interesting idea Benzo. I think we will eventually learn the methods of the owl post. It is pretty interesting how those owls know where everyone is. My only question is how did Harry's letters get to Sirius? How does the owls know where to find him? I wonder about the different spells and such. Any more ideas on spells that could help Sirius and Voldemort?

[Sacrosance]

We know that the only wizard Voldemort fears is Dumbledore. That means Dumbledore is really powerful. Millions of other proofs support that idea. Dumbledore is trying to hide Sirius, until the truth is found. If a very powerful wizard like Dumbledore is hiding Sirius, then, without doubt, Sirius will not be found, except if he is tracked by a wizard who is more powerful than Dumbledore, and I'm sure they are only very very few who are more powerful than Dumbledore.

[Mike21]

Prehaps people who you dont want to send an owl to you are "blocked" from doing so? But then again that woman sent Hermonie the envelope full of puss in GOF

[aiko amaya]

um guys duh the ministry doesn't know that black is animagus, so they're constantly looking for a guy, not a guy who can turn nto a dog, which would mean that if ministry memembers were close by or there was a threat f him being found he would just turn into a dog!

[GrangerGal]

Ummmm Adamslove duh we knew that but we also know he comes out of his dog form once in awhile when he sees Harry and such. Besides we don't ridicule people here so if you aren't going to be nice in your counter arguments don't say them. Anyway we know he is a dog but that doesn't mean people can't try to track him down. Besides I think this post is more about how Sirius is being protected with spells OTHER than his animagi and how the owl post works to protect its users. So lets try to stick to that instead of being rude.

[Magpie]

Maybe Dumbledore's put one of those spells so that people just stay away from the mountainside where Sirius is, like the ones at the quidditch world cup. That would explain why Sirius went and got Harry, Hermione, and Ron before taking them up the mountainside. Well, just a theory!

[Aldawen]

You are saying that there are simple ways that the Ministry could catch him, but he escaped from Azkaban in the first place, and that is a huge feat. We know that Sirius is very smart, and very magically talented, so doesn't it make sense that he has protected himself against such simple tactics? Durmstrang is Unplottable, and if they can make it so people can't even find a huge school, it is pretty likely they can make it so one person cannot be found.

[Potter80]

Sirius is protected by Dumbledore.

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by GrangerGal (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=251319#post251319))
Ummmm Adamslove duh we knew that but we also know he comes out of his dog form once in awhile when he sees Harry and such. Besides we don't ridicule people here so if you aren't going to be nice in your counter arguments don't say them. Anyway we know he is a dog but that doesn't mean people can't try to track him down. Besides I think this post is more about how Sirius is being protected with spells OTHER than his animagi and how the owl post works to protect its users. So lets try to stick to that instead of being rude.

I wasn't trying to be rude, I was really surprised no one had mentioned it. If it seemed rude I'm sorry. but just to be frank I think the way you stated that was also kinda rude. I think that since sirius knows that they aren't looking for a dog he stays that way unless he knows he is securly hidden. He knows what he's doing. The fact that sirius is anmagus makes it so that we don't have to think about other possibilities.

[Charmed]

Well in my opinion there are three reasons why Sirius has not been captured by the Ministry.
He is some how magically hidden.
He is harder to track as an Animagi.
Certain members of the ministry are just so thick/clueless that they haven't realised he has been right in front of them.

[Kneazle]

Adamslove and GrangerGal, please just avoid using "duh" or other words that could be misinterpretated with a derogative meaning. Thanks. :)

[MadMagic]

I agree with most other people's theories here. He is very clever at using his animagi form to his best advantage. Nobody knows that he can turn himself into a dog. That would seem an excellent way to hide.

Secondly, the whole owl post issue is interesting. You would think that if an owl cold find him, that the skiled members of the ministry would be able to locate him. This would kind of make me think that he has taken some precaution against being found. I would guess that there is some magic being used to keep him extra safe.

This is a really good question. And hopefull we will get some kind of answers in book 5...

[HPviolinist85]

Another thing is, in the fourth book, the plot revolves around Harry and the triwizard tournament. Book 4 was packed with drama and the last thing we needed were chapters where Sirius would have close calls with the MoM. She did a lot of focusing on Sirus Black in the third book and she wanted a difference in the plot. That might be a plot in another book where he is discovered to be an Animagi and it's harder and harder for him to hide.

[Magpie]

I really hope that Sirius won't get caught, and his name will be cleared! I agree that Sirius might be unplottable, or something to that extent.

[Guardian Angel]

I always thought that Ministry could easily find him. All they needed to do is to send a letter to Sirius and then track the owl... It would certainly lead it to him... I just pray that Fudge doesn't think of it , because Sirius is doomed then!

[aiko amaya]

I don't think it's that simple. sending an owl without an adress, sure hedwig can to that but it has been mentioned that she is a very smart owl. Plus the ministry has no clue where Sirius is, for all they know he could be in antartica or something. Plus I think that things have calmed down, sure they're still looking for him but definetly not as much as in the third book. Plus sirius never puts down were he is so that they can't find him. Plus imagine how difficult it would be to track an owl if there wasn't a magical way (and for some reason I don't think that there is).

[GrangerGal]

I think that there has to be some form of magic with the owl post. I also think that Sirius being an animagi helps so Adamslove I actually wasn't disagreeing with you. However there has to be other forms of magic protecting Sirius since he has to come out of his dog form to do things like write Harry and Dumbledore. I am sorry for using "duh" but I was just trying to show Adamslove that he may have sounded a bit demeaning. I apologize and I accept your apology as well. I will not act that ridiculous again but I do think the anticipation of the next book is getting to EVERYONE! SORRY!

[EvilMeghan]

Owls used for owl posts are not your ordinaray regular owls. They have some sort of magic, that's how they are able to find the person the letter is intended to go to. I also believe they have a spell on them to protect them, so they don't die in mid-flight or get hunted by muggles so they are able to deliver their letters. They must be "untrackable," also. Someone must breed owl post owls, and it would make sense that they were all charmed upon their birth.

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by GrangerGal (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=256083#post256083))
I think that there has to be some form of magic with the owl post. I also think that Sirius being an animagi helps so Adamslove I actually wasn't disagreeing with you. However there has to be other forms of magic protecting Sirius since he has to come out of his dog form to do things like write Harry and Dumbledore. I am sorry for using "duh" but I was just trying to show Adamslove that he may have sounded a bit demeaning. I apologize and I accept your apology as well. I will not act that ridiculous again but I do think the anticipation of the next book is getting to EVERYONE! SORRY!

dude just a little correction there, I am a she, tehehe. It's ok I can see the misconception. Anyway, I really don't think that the owls would be able to find him without and adress (except for really really smart owls whoo know sirius like hedwig) so even if they could tracked they would be able to find sirius. And how the heck would they know when he owl found sirius, if they got a letter in return sirius would be on the move again.

[DarlingChild]

I think part of it has to do with the fact that he is an unregistered Anamagi. Plus, I think he's just a very clever, crafty person. :p

[The Forsaken]

What about a Fidelius Charm? Dumbeldore could have put the charm on Sirius and been the secret keeper. Hedwig brings Harry's letters to Dubmledore.

[flibbertigibbet]

I think owls must be charmed for security somehow. You wouldn't want somebody tracking down your owl and stealing the mail, would you? And, as somebody mentioned, while being able to track owls might help the ministry catch bad guys, it would undermine the safety of regular good people as well. Can't have it both ways :)

Somebody mentioned that Sirius had told Harry to change owls so nobody would find him. I don't think he meant that somebody might track the owl. If I remember correctly, he was worried that somebody would notice the same snowy owl coming to his hideout all the time, since they aren't native to the area and stand out.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Originally posted by flibbertigibbet (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=256708#post256708))
I think owls must be charmed for security somehow. You wouldn't want somebody tracking down your owl and stealing the mail, would you? And, as somebody mentioned, while being able to track owls might help the ministry catch bad guys, it would undermine the safety of regular good people as well. Can't have it both ways :)

Somebody mentioned that Sirius had told Harry to change owls so nobody would find him. I don't think he meant that somebody might track the owl. If I remember correctly, he was worried that somebody would notice the same snowy owl coming to his hideout all the time, since they aren't native to the area and stand out.


They would especially be noticable if they are of a species not native to an area. But they would also be noticed if they were often seen going in to someone's warehouse or storage area in the middle of a muggle town.

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by EvilMeghan (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=256125#post256125))
Owls used for owl posts are not your ordinaray regular owls. They have some sort of magic, that's how they are able to find the person the letter is intended to go to. I also believe they have a spell on them to protect them, so they don't die in mid-flight or get hunted by muggles so they are able to deliver their letters. They must be "untrackable," also. Someone must breed owl post owls, and it would make sense that they were all charmed upon their birth.

I agree with everything you say here, and it's very well explained. So we have another "wizard job": post owl breeder!

[remo]

This all sounds good. But then how did Dobby steal Harrys letters? Dobby had been taking all of Harrys letters during the summer. I know house elves have their own magic, but it still kind of puts a hole in the theory that they can't be tracked.

[Auri DeMeer]

Maybe Dobby was just hidden in the hedge (he somehow would know when an owl was coming) and took the letters every time.

[jordmundt6]

I think that House Elves have a good equivalent to the Summoning Charm. That's all he would really need.

Also, by and large the Ministry is full of idiots and they have the king of idiots running the place (Fudge). Those who aren't idiots are either stuck in hole-in-the-wall jobs because they "lack proper wizarding pride" or use their talents to confuse because they are Death Eaters. Or maybe they're irrelevant becaus they've been disgraced (Crouch).

[Auri DeMeer]

Jormundt6, I don't agree with your last paragraph. In the Ministry there are idiots like you said, but you can't say that they all are. Take Arthur Weasley, for example. I wouldn't say he fits in any of the four categories you mentioned.

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=267988#post267988))
Maybe Dobby was just hidden in the hedge (he somehow would know when an owl was coming) and took the letters every time.

he probably was, or maybe because Elves have thier own brand of magic he sorta just did a spell he usually does for getting the mail ya know? I t5hink that the ministry wouldn't be able to use it because you have to be near the person your taking the mail from, which would mean finding sirius.

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by The Forsaken (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=256588#post256588))
What about a Fidelius Charm? Dumbeldore could have put the charm on Sirius and been the secret keeper. Hedwig brings Harry's letters to Dubmledore.

Sirius must wish he had a Secret Keeper. So that he wouldn't have to live off rats, hidden in his dog form in a cave. But I'm afraid he hasn't got it.

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=269700#post269700))
Sirius must wish he had a Secret Keeper. So that he wouldn't have to live off rats, hidden in his dog form in a cave. But I'm afraid he hasn't got it.

very good pouint. I really think it's just the whole animagi thing he's got going for him, plus things have cooled down since he got out the yeaqr before.

[jr119us]

couldnt they use something like a pensieve to find him? of course if they did catch him, then that would kind of ruin things...

[EvilMeghan]

jordmundt6, I don't think Dobby could use an equivalent to a Summoning Charm, because then wizards would be able to summon any letters they want.

jr119us, how would they use a pensieve?

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by EvilMeghan (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=269936#post269936))
jr119us, how would they use a pensieve?

just what I was thinking. I don't get it. Like do you mean get people to put heir thoughts abvout Sirius in to a pensieve as clues or something?

[jordmundt6]

I think he might have meant Dumbledore's Pensieve. If they jumped in, they'd get transported to the memory they were looking for. A way to circumvent the difficulty of forcing a Secret-Keeper to speak.

Back on the other post I mentioned Arthur Weasley as an exception. He's stuck in a "hole-in-the-wall job" (The Improper Use of Magic Office). Now, he likes it because it gives him an opportunity to study the things he loves about Muggles and still protect them. But, Fudge is amking sure Arthur goes nowhere because the elitist little twit thinks that Arthur and his family "lack proper wizarding pride." Molly says so in "The Parting of the Ways." And Dumbledore also said "Cornelius, you place far too much importance, and you always have done, on the so-called purity of blood." Or some such. That's why Fudge gets along so well with the Malfoys. He sees only their deep pockets and their ancient bloodline, not the evil in their hearts or the suffering they cause.

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=270629#post270629))
I think he might have meant Dumbledore's Pensieve. If they jumped in, they'd get transported to the memory they were looking for. A way to circumvent the difficulty of forcing a Secret-Keeper to speak.


But do you really think it right to look into someone elses penseive, it's kinda rude. I know harry did it but that was by accident. Besides I don't think those ministry twits would know about dumbledore helping sirius. And it doesn't realy make to much sense what your saying there. What does this have to do with Aurthur and the fudge thing. I don't get that.

[jordmundt6]

The Arthur section of my last post was a response to flack I got for characterizing the Ministry of Magic as mostly composed of "fools" and "Death-Eaters." I went on to say that anyone who actually showed intelligence and wasn't a Death-Eater was either kept in a meaningless (to the higher-ups anyway) job and blocked from advancement, or ignored because he or she was disgraced (Crouch and Moody). The response I got was something like

"What about Arthur Weasley, you can hardly call him an idiot." But I hadn't been. He's ignored because he loves Muggles and the complete imbecile in charge (Fudge) thinks love of and/or respoect for Muggles is a sign of weakness. He thinks Arthur "lacks proper wizarding pride" and has taken steps to ensure that he's never promoted so that no one will have to listen to his (Arthur's) views. All this we got from Molly Weasley at the end of GoF ("The Parting of the Ways") I was merely defending myself against what I saw as an unfounded criticism of my characterization of the Ministry. Is there anyone there besides Arthur Weasley and Mad-Eye Moody you can really respect? Well, if they're there, we haven't met them yet. And the inmates (Fudge, Malfoy Macnair, Amos Diggory) are most assuredly running the asylum.

[Nys]

I'm sorry if anyone has mentioned this, but what if Sirius can apparate. He is a powerful wizzard and that would be a good way to use his powers. He'd probably be hiding somewhere where he can see most oncoming people, or owls, and if its not an owl that he thinks should be coming from Harry, or if he sees someone following it, he's gone, poof, just like that.

[Sinistra]

Here's a thought, can an animagus apparate when they are in animal form? Apparation doesn't require a wand, Percy had no wand when he apparated downstairs in the morning.

Sirius is very clever and a trickster from adolescence. He thinks outside the box. Who would think to look for him in a cave eating rats? Or near Hogsmeade? Animagus aside, Sirius is used to thinking in a sneaky and devious manner. He just treats it as a game (albeit a deadly one) and he seems to be winning. And maybe he also hid out in the Muggle world. Who would think to look for a wizard in the muggle world? They waited a long while before alerting the Muggle Minister.

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by Nys (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=293964#post293964))
I'm sorry if anyone has mentioned this, but what if Sirius can apparate. He is a powerful wizzard and that would be a good way to use his powers. He'd probably be hiding somewhere where he can see most oncoming people, or owls, and if its not an owl that he thinks should be coming from Harry, or if he sees someone following it, he's gone, poof, just like that.

hmm good point, but I don't know, it seems that would make things very hard for the ministry to catch any wizard, I thin kthat they may have a wayof regulating it or something. Maybe because he had that so very cool flying motorcycle he didn't bother with apparating.

[jordmundt6]

But also Apparition is highly dangerous and requires quite a bit of magic to pull off, so apparitions in areas with high concentrations of Muggles or places wizards don't usually frequent would raise all kinds of red flags and make travel harder. Plus Sirius generally has to conceal Buckbeak as well as himsefl and Buckbeak cannot apparate (which is too bad because if he were a giant Phoenix or Diricrawl, he could) so that tool would be relatively useless if Sirius wanted to remain on the move and save both himself and his new friend. Plus he'd have to Apparate in really out of the way places just showing up in Diagon Alley as himself would cause a panic and you can bet he'd be staring at a whole crew of Aurors in about 90 seconds if he tried it.

[EvilMeghan]

And I thought the Ministry tracked all apparitions? Then they would know who was apparating...

[harp230]

My impressiona was that MOM tracked who could apperate not when someone apperated.

[Barbara Kennedy]

It would take either a large staff of wizards or some powerful magic devices to track every apparating wizard at all times, and to do it accurately. I don't think that it is very likely for that reason.

[FawkesBox]

I think that is clearly a case of the ministry's incompetence- as was discussed in the "Barty Crouch's use of the Unforgivable curses" Thread as personified in that blasted reactionist Fudge.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Now that Voldemort has returned, whether Fudge admits it or not, do you think the MoM is still searching for Black as hard as they were, or should be?

[Bouncing_Ferret]

I think that the Ministry has forgotten about Sirius for the moment. After Fudge's fudge-up, when he announced he'd caught Sirius, but then that he'd gotten away, I think Fudge would want to sweep that under the carpet for awhile. Not good for your election chances, letting mass murderers escape from right under your nose, you know? ;D

[Barbara Kennedy]

Plus, thew Ministry is stirred up like nest of ants right now about the return of Voldemort. Probably half of them trying to deny he's back and the other half trying to decide what, if anything, they can do about it.

[jordmundt6]

That's probably true. But, either way, both sides would be commited to bringing Black in at the moment. Capture Voldemort's stuanchest supporter and he's bound to give you the info you're after. Almost nobody knows that Sirius is innocent. He just became an even more valuable head to hunt.

[InvasionOfTheGuru4]

I think that using an owl would be too easy, it somehow wouldn't work.

[McKinnon02]

I think the reason they can't find him is that the top people at the ministry don't know he's an Animagus yet. Who's going to pay attention to a lovable stray, and think that it's actually a convicted killer? I hope Ron and the trio explain to the Weasley family about Black, soon.

[Marethiel]

Well, they have no clue where Sirius escaped to and they don't know about him being an Animagi. However....the concept of sending an owl addressed to someone and following the owl is pretty interesting, in my opinion. We know Hedwig's a smart owl, but I'd think that there'd be other smart owls around, no? Why just Hedwig? And another concept that has been bothering me for a while...Hedwig's name. Harry said he found that name in 'Hogwarts: A History.' But will we ever learn what this Hedwig did with Hogwarts that has placed them in the history text? Ah...so many questions, so little time!

[guitarzan8]

if post owls are able to find anyone anywhere in the world. then why didn't the ministry of magic just send an owl to sirius and follow the owl?

[themushygod]

no idea

maybe wiizards are just a little slow in the head

lol

[big_cho_fan]

I think owls are somewhat good at following people who want to be found. However if someone is hiding I think it would be very difficult for the owl to find that person.

[VyoletVega]

Could an owl be bewitched with a tracking spell so that a wizard would know exactly where s/he had been?

Hrmmm....

[guitarzan8]

I don't know it just struck me as odd that no-one in the world could find sirius yet harry's owl knew exactly where to go get him. and i got the impression that the owl would ALWAYS be able to deliver it's message no matter what.

So it just seemed odd that no-one made the connection that they could just write a letter to sirius, attach it to an owl and then Just follow the owl to sirius.

[nox]

I had thought of this, too. Maybe only owls that Sirius wanted to find him would be able to. Ofcourse after he escaped Hogwarts, the owl that was not supposed to find him was just another tasty snack for Buckbeak. :p

[PhoenixUK]

Harry talks to his owl, so maybe he could tell her where to go? I know at other times in the book he doesn't know, so maybe it's a mixture of if the owner knows and if the owl knows? A far fetched guess, but it's late and we've just had a power cut, so I'm writing this in the dark on my laptop battery!

[Loony Lunatic]

I agree with nox... I think that if a person doesn't want to be found by someone's owl won't be found by it. Kinda like blocking phonecalls. You can choose from who you recieve communications. Maybe a kinda magical owlpost ID?

[Hermione2006]

I agree with Loony Lunatic and nox too. I think that sounds right and he can get owls from just the people he wants to get owls from like Harry!

[mel]

I wondered this, too, guitarzan8. And in that case, why not send an owl to Voldemort and the escaped Death Eaters?

I don't know about these explanations, perhaps they are true, but couldn't they be easily overridden? I guess I never really thought of owls as magical animals, I thought they were just really smart with a good sense of direction. But that doesn't really make sense now that I think about it. I suppose post owls would have to be either bewitched so they can track people (perhaps like the Marauder's Map?) or be innately magical and just know in their mind where each person is.*

Perhaps the owl itself would be smart enough to know that the sender is just meaning to find the person and not legitimately send mail, so it would refuse to deliver it? That would make more sense to me. The owl would not betray the sender or the recipient.

Hopefully JKR will explain it later on. Someone should ask her in an interview. :) That's how she explained Harry not seeing the thestrals in GoF...

*if that is the case (owls being magical animals and just knowing where everyone is) it would be interesting if legilimency could work on them...

[anumati]

Well, it is possible that you need to want to be found for the owl to find you, but I also think it could do with 'unplottability'. We've heard of things being unplottable in the magical world (the wizard schools are, for one) meaning that they can't be found on a map and you can't find it by accident, only if you know where you are going. Maybe there is a similar thing with people and the ability to be found. A human unplottable spell perhaps.

[Fredericks]

Or it's possible that it's just a plot hole that Rowling overlooked. Or rather, never bothered to explain fully. We still don't know how or why the owls can locate people, and I wish Rowling would explain that. Even a one or two sentence blur would suffice.

[Ms.Sirius]

I would have to say that if a person doesn't want to be found, the owl couldn't find him. I don't know how they make that connection, but thats the best I can come up with. It does seem like it would be kind of hard to follow the owl, but I guess if you flew along side it, it may work. But really, how much CAN an owl fly?? I can't believe they would be able to fly overseas and stuff like that anyway. Guess in the world of magic, alot of things are possible!
:eyebrows:

[Hammi]

I think this is one of those things that we're overanalyzing and aren't supposed to question

[Pr0nGs]

Yeah, the answer to these questions are: "Because JKR didn't think of it."

[mel]

Originally posted by Pr0nGs (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?postid=472684#post472684))
Yeah, the answer to these questions are: "Because JKR didn't think of it."
I don't know, I mean post owls are very big part of Harry Potter's world, it's pretty big to forget to explain something like that, because of all the possibilities it leaves open. People are always getting owls, Harry has an owl... She has explained less obvious things before, someone is bound to ask about this, especially with all the people not wanting to be found in her stories. It really makes me wonder.

[malfoyismine2004]

I suppose....someone find an email address for JKR and ask her!! Otherwise we are all going to become those obbsessed fans who try and analyse everything, and do daft stuff like try and draw a Black family tree....Oops. That was me....

[WatsonFan11]

Big Cho Fan, if Sirius is fidden... and you said that it would be hard for owls to find hidden people... then how could Hedwig give Sirius the letters from Harry?

[Starseyer]

I tend to think that there is some sort of magic on Postal Owls to allow them to find anyone, but not be followed. But since Sirius was worried about Hedwig being spotted going repeatedly toward his hiding place, I think this protection could be broken by a powerful witch or wizard.

[DaManDan521]

i doubt that owls can find anyone jo wouldnt make it that easy. i agree with whoever said that they can only be found be ppl who want to be found. but remember also that some owls had to be addresed to the exact address. so maybe u can only be sent to ppl that u kno where they are unless they are ur good friend and you kno them.

because ppl can sent hermione hate mail, maybe its because they kno where she is, lol who knows i am sure there is also a spell that u can put on urself

[Mander]

The reason given ^ up there are all good ones. And I have another to add.

For those of you who have read OOPT

[spoiler] Kingsley Shakelbotl from the Order is an Auror who is a part of the " hot pursuit of Sirius Black" at the Ministry feeds them phony info abut Sirius being in Tibet.

[EvilMeghan]

Mander and WeasleyIsOurKing - Being that this is a spoiler-free forum, I don't think you should be posting the reasong the Ministry has not found Sirius. And for the spoiler tag to work, you need a [/spoiler] at the end. :)

[WeasleyIsOurKing]

I did a search for this and didn't find anything that someone else had posted. I also didn't know where to post this, so I hope the Common Room is the right place for it.

The concept was touched upon by Barb, the author of the Psychic Serpent series (very very good-go read if you haven't done so, on Schnoogle). My question has to do with the fact that the Ministry of Magic tried (and still is trying) to find Sirius, but they can't seem to catch him. Now, owls aren't that fast of flyers, I wouldn't think-especially not when compared to a first rate Firebolt, right? So why can't someone send a post owl to Black, and then follow it? By air, by ground, by tracking charm of some sort...surely there would be a way to get the owl to TAKE them to Sirius, right? Does that make sense? After all, Harry sends owls, Hedwig and school ones, to his godfather pretty frequently in the fourth book. So why can't the Ministry do the same? For that matter, would an owl fly to Voldemort, now that he is "back"?

Eh, just bringing up a wild point, I know, but it's weird. What do you think?


Kingsley Shacklebolt. Why rely on owls when you have someone feeding you information?

[Willy Lee]

Hey all- I've just been re-re-reading books 1-5 again, and of course noticiing things I hadn't before. Whilst reading book 4 I was struck by something that seemed amiss. Sirius is in hiding- at first Harry thinks he is somewhere tropical- and Harry is in communication with him, first using Hedwig and then random school owls so as not to raise suspicions. If he is in hiding, how could the school owls locate him? And if any old school owl could locate him, how come the "authorities" couldn't tap into this and locat him also? Perhaps there is a perfectly logical explanation that I have simply overlooked.

Many thanks-

Willy Lee

[Frankie Inkblot]

I never thought about that...maybe because the Ministry owls could find Sirius, but maybe they can't disclose where his is (since they're birds.) Maybe the Ministry would never think to look for Black with an owl.

I mean what would they write in the letter, 'Yo, Sirius, give yourself up please.' ?

[Sherlock Holmes]

Here you go: this has been extensively discussed in Hot Pursuit of Sirius! (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=7622&highlight=owls). If this thread gets a lot of discussion I may pull the old thread out of History of Magic Reference and merge it.

[Willy Lee]

Ahhh... many thanks for the direction.

WL

[ravenclaw02]

I always wondered about this too! Why not just apparate to Sirius' side? Or get on the Floo Network and Floo to "Sirius Black's Hiding Spot!" ? Perhaps there were some spells (like the Fidelius) protecting him?

[Cat]

I think Hedwig is brighter than most owls, to be honest. She also probably knew that Sirius was a friend. I bet most owls wouldn't waste their time trying to find somebody.

And what would they have done even then? Followed the owls? On broomsticks? All that way? Nah. Or would they have sent a letter saying 'Dear Mr Black, please write your location and send it back. Yours truly, the people who want your soul removed'.

And if Sirius was being followed by owls (the sight of an owl in his tropical climate might have been a bit noticeable), wouldn't he have promptly re-located himself?

I'm definitely seeing flaws in this plan.

Why not just apparate to Sirius' side?

You have to visualise where you're Apparating to.

Or get on the Floo Network and Floo to "Sirius Black's Hiding Spot!" ?

You can only Floo your way to fireplaces that have connections to the Floo Network. Presumably to connect them up you actually have to know where they are.

[swishandflick]

If the Ministry was able to find an owl as smart as Hedwig, my immediate thought would be that the owl would carry an explosive device or something (like a howler) and just blow up in thier face. But that wouldn't be very effective, so I guess unless there is a magical version of a tracking device I don't think the owl can communicate where the letter was delivered to the owner.

[Venus_77]

Well, the Ministry can't really talk to the owls right? And maybe they haven't thought that Sirius will have an owl... Anyways, the Ministry is very stupid, right? I mean they didn't believe Dumbledore and Harry about Voldemort at once... So maybe they didn't have enough brains to think about that...




"Alas, Earwax"

[Cat]

Anyways, the Ministry is very stupid, right?


Ah, another good point! :lol:

swishandflick, a tracking device would be the only way around it that I can think of, but even if a magical tracking device existed, the owl would actually have to find Sirius first - it would be going all over the place and, if it eventually landed in the right place it would probably end up being a dog's dinner. Or, if he wasn't hungry, he would just notice that a suspicious owl has located him and he would move sharpish. The owl would have to stop or hover for a while and Sirius would be bound to notice it. If it didn't stop, the Ministry couldn't be sure that it had found him at all (it would have been all around the world, remember).

Hedwig must have had clever ways of finding Sirius, anyway. The other owls would probably be completely clueless.

[padfootgrim]

i guess people dont know how to track owls... like owls go through fireplaces (ex. when the owl brought harry the letter from grimmald place)and probably have disapparating powers and stuff...

i want a pet owl :)

[Pumpkin Juice]

Well, owls are considered wise. They also have instincts humans lack. Wise humans would have found him. So we can assume the ministry of magic is full of morons. :eyebrows:

[Alastor D]

Actually when Sirius asked Harry not to use Hedwig, the other owls were able to find him too. It seems to me that JKR just wanted owls to have abilities humans have not.

[tyro]

there's probably some magic like, you have to know the person or something. This could actually be a plot hole.

Also, on the topic of realising things, I was re-reading Book5 for my screenplay and saw this:

"Harry looked out the window and saw Hagrid giving a lesson, he couldn't see which animal it was, but guessed Unicorns because all the boys were standing back".

[djjoshuacarl]

why dont Aurors Track owls???

How many times could they have caught snuffles in GOF alone... even if they did swap owls a few times....

maybe Im makin something out of nothing.

But if i was one... Id just look for Owls goin to not-so-normal locations...
given the end of POA, people were Def suspect of Harry by then (as if they werent by the middle of COS)...
*invisibilty cloak
*owlery
*follow that bloody pidgeon

[Fawkesified]

JKR said that you can make wizards untraceable like you can with buildings being unplottable.

[djjoshuacarl]

right o... but were talkin about literally hopin on a broom and following an owl to the source

[Stan_Shunpike]

While that would have helped the aurors, can you imagine how many there would have to be to track every owl? Also, at least three aurors are on Harry's side, so even if owls are tracked they could have channeled misinformation to the ministry. Besides, it would be invading the privacy of all wizards to track owls. I suppose it's a bit like tapping phones.

[Nicole]

Here's the quote
Section: F.A.Q.
In 'Prisoner of Azkaban', why couldn't the Ministry of Magic have sent Sirius an owl, and then followed it, to find him?
Just as wizards can make buildings unplottable, they can also make themselves untraceable. Voldemort would have been found long ago if it had been as simple as sending him an owl!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
©2005 J.K. Rowling. All Rights Reserved.
Site By Lightmaker

[djjoshuacarl]

Thats kinda what I was gettin at...
if the school owls can find him to deliver a message.... Im sure a top notch snow owl would have no problem finding him.

and as far as privacy.... well your tracking a "murderer"

[simplybecky]

It sounds like a logical suggestion but, as other posters have also noted, JKR has put that theory to rest.

[djjoshuacarl]

thats the thing...were not talking about a wizard...were talking about owls.
Ive had this discussion with the "elite" a few times off the board... and no one has a a answer really.
but thats fine...
you cant create a whole world and expect utter perfection

[Nicole]

To tell the truth, I have never been satisfied with Jo's explanation on the website. Can such magic really be performed without a wand? Evidently so, as neither Voldemort nor Sirius had one for at least some portion of the searches for them. Does that mean that the related 'unplottable' spell is also so easy it can be performed without a wand?

Also, it is quite obvious that Sirius does not use such a spell in Goblet of Fire, indeed not since his escape on Buckbeak. Hedwig finds him to deliver Harry's messages and we also know that Dumbledore and Sirius were in communication (although it is possible that they used the Order's "method"). Was it safe at that point for Sirius to let his guard down--because the Aurors would no longer even attempt to track an owl with a message? Maybe Sirius only used the spell during PoA, but that would have been when the more intensive searches were going on.

[Kaitie]

JKR addressed this question on her site--she said that if it was really that easy to just send an owl or apparate etc....then even Voldemort would've been caught ages ago.

I don't think that Dumbledore was helping "hide" Sirius with spells or enchantments.

I just think that the wizarding world doesn't work the way that we think.

[shaggydogstail]

To tell the truth, I have never been satisfied with Jo's explanation on the website. Can such magic really be performed without a wand? Evidently so, as neither Voldemort nor Sirius had one for at least some portion of the searches for them. Does that mean that the related 'unplottable' spell is also so easy it can be performed without a wand? Perhaps Dumbledore performed the spell on Sirius when he was questioning him in Flitwick's Office prior to his escape in PoA. Similarly, Voldemort may have had the spell performed at any time before the night at Godric's Hollow.

I think Harry's owls could find Sirius because Sirius had sent him an owl first (pigwidgeon) so Harry could send any owl in return. But if someone Sirius hadn't owled himself had sent him an owl, it wouldn't have been able to find him. Essentially I'm saying that the spell works a bit like a Spam filter! :p