Butterbeer - alcoholic?

[wood lover 5]

Is butterbeer alcoholic? I know it is but it seems funny that it is easy to access. I don't know if England is different or if in the wizarding world you're allowed to drink when you're as young as Harry and his friends, it just puzzles me. In GoF Winky gets rather drunk drinking butterbeer and Harry says something about it not being that strong. And also Hagrid drinks it, he has a tankard of it at his cabin. I'm just puzzled by it.

Just your thoughts, Thanks.

[Knight]

1) Butterbeer is slightly alcoholic. Harry specifically says, "It isn't strong stuff." But house elves are a lot smaller than humans so their blood alcohol content would be more heavily affected. It's also possible that butterbeer has a "magically intoxicating" effect that has nothing to do with alcohol, but regardless it does have some very light narcotic effects.

2) Only because several situations in the book could be sidestepped or wouldn't be logical if people could apparate at the castle. It's literary tool to isolate the castle when the need arises.

3) If he committed crimes in England he could be extradited there. Since he was a death eater it's more than likely that he was in England and was captured there. It is unknown what kind of influence and effects Voldemort had outside Great Britain, if any.

[HPviolinist85]

I don't think that JKR will promote alchohal in her books.

[RonFan24]

The way I thought of it was that the kind that the Trio and the other students drink may have a little in it, but isn't strong enough to do anything. However, I think the stuff that Hagrid drink is very strong. So basically, my take was that there are differnt batches that very the proof of alcohol.

[familiar]

Butterbeer does have a small amount of alcohol in it, as Harry confirms in GoF when seeing the drunk house elf. I was just looking around different web sites comparing beer and rootbeer and discovered that rootbeer can be home-made and naturally contain .25% alcohol. A regular American beer has 3% to 6% alcohol. The old recipe's for rootbeer from 150 years ago had 2% to 12% alcohol. The stuff in the stores has none. But really, you'd drown yourself before you got drunk off of something with .25% alcohol! Unless you're Winky the house elf, that is.

[Mireille]

I always thought that Butterbeer was a "virgin" drink, meaning alcohol free. It's possible that they can only get it in the pup because of its name having beer in it.

Then again, I'm not sure what the alcohol laws are in England. In the States you have to be 21 to drink, but maybe it's different in Rowling's world. As someone said, maybe there is a little alcohol in it, but not enough to intoxicate anyone.

[MadMagic]

I always thought it was an alcoholic drink. Not a lot of alcohol, but still soe alcohol. But that would be strange since they are not old enough to consume alcohol. So it could just be a non-alcoholic drink of some sort. I don't think that Winky getting drunk off of it proves it is alcoholic--we really don't know what would do that to house Elves.

[Loz]

It must have a very small percentage because Winky gets drunk - but overall Alcohol is portrayed as being a bad thing in HP - Hagrid is always at his worst when he is drunk. It's a last resort thing.

[aiko amaya]

I think it might just be like the wines that have very little alcohol in em that it's so little anyone can get one. My exboyfriend/bestfriend Adam was telling me bout the stuff, you don't have to be legal drinking age at all

[Sredni Vashtar]

I always thought Butterbeer is like Gingerale - a basic non-alcoholic fizzy drink. As far as the house elves are concerned, it could be that they can get drunk off any kind of fizzy drink - a sort of placebo effect, if you will. As a rule, they are not allowed drinks like Butterbeer, and obviously think it is a sort of beer and get drunk when they drink it. You see the same thing happen with really stupid highschool kids trying to get a buzz off non-alcoholic beer outside the Circle K.

My suspicion about Hagrid's Butterbeer is that he spikes it with something a bit stronger, and just doesn't mention it isn't pure Butterbeer he's drinking because alcohol isn't exactly allowed on campus.

But then, I could be talking out of my back end on this one.

[RonFan24]

Originally posted by MadMagic (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258002#post258002))
I always thought it was an alcoholic drink. Not a lot of alcohol, but still soe alcohol. But that would be strange since they are not old enough to consume alcohol. So it could just be a non-alcoholic drink of some sort. I don't think that Winky getting drunk off of it proves it is alcoholic--we really don't know what would do that to house Elves.


Actually, you saying that made me rememeber something. At first I thought what I said in my previous post. Then I read about Hagrid drinking mead. I just now remembered thinking that Butterbeer must be like rootbeer or gingerale and mead is the strong alcoholic stuff.

You see the same thing happen with really stupid highschool kids trying to get a buzz off non-alcoholic beer outside the Circle K.
Have you ever heard of the even dumber kids who try to get buzzed off of mouth wash! :rotfl: It's so pathetic!

[Cat]

HPviolinist85, J. K. Rowling is realistic, has a sense of humour and - most of all - lives in Britain. She's not going to avoid the subject of alcohol.

Hagrid is always at the booze, anyway.

I think Butterbeer is like the toy-beers that kids can buy. Not like alcopops, but like shandy and such.

[rotsiepots]

I think Butterbeer is probably very mildly alcoholic (hence Winky's drunken state).

A Muggle equivalent would be something like bitters (as in lemon, lime and bitters). Bitters is considerably potent, in terms of its alcohol content, but its sale isn't restricted to minors because you use such miniscule amounts of it when you mix drinks.

I suppose the same concept applies to essences (eg vanilla essence) which are used for cooking cakes and sweets. Technically speaking these are also alcoholic, but the alcohol evaporates when the cake is baked. Perhaps most of the alcoholic content of butterbeer evaporates when its Pasteurised, and Winky was getting drunk off the residue? House elves are tiny, after all.

[Fuchsia]

I always figured it was like with Egg Nog. I've known plenty of kids to drink that.

[RonFan24]

Egg Nog doesn't alway have alcohol in it.

[Fuchsia]

It did when my mom offered it to me :lol:

[Loz]

Hmmm bitters. *hiccup* sorry?
;)
I like the "placebo" theory. Hagrid doesn't get drunk on Butterbeer tho does he? He drinks a lot of it, but I thought he had firewhisky or whatever it is called when he was seriously depressed.

I like how Lupin is gonna give harry a special treat and Harry's like "ohh, butterbeer, yeah I like that stuff" - I can totally imagine Lupin's expression. I don't know about you - but I always imagine butterbeer to taste like butterscotch hard boiled sweets and toffee with a bit of bite.

[Cat]

Originally posted by lozenger8 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258106#post258106))

I like the "placebo" theory. Hagrid doesn't get drunk on Butterbeer tho does he? He drinks a lot of it, but I thought he had firewhisky or whatever it is called when he was seriously depressed.



Or seriously happy. Or possibly bored.

Harry and the other kids don't get drunk on Butterbeer, either. There was loads of it going around at the Christmas do in GOF, as well. It's just too strong for a house elf - and keep in mind that Winky isn't the toughest house elf, either.

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by RonFan24 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258051#post258051))
Actually, you saying that made me rememeber something. At first I thought what I said in my previous post. Then I read about Hagrid drinking mead. I just now remembered thinking that Butterbeer must be like rootbeer or gingerale and mead is the strong alcoholic stuff.


Have you ever heard of the even dumber kids who try to get buzzed off of mouth wash! :rotfl: It's so pathetic!

mouth wash. um ok. though I do try to get something from pop till I realize it's got no caffine! how could they do that grrr.

[HogwartsChaplain]

FYI, from the website for the International Center for Alcohol Policies:


Generally speaking, national laws relate to drinking age limits for settings outside the home, such as taverns, bars, restaurants and nightclubs. The laws tend to be silent on drinking within the home with the exception of those in the United Kingdom where alcohol may be consumed from the age of five with parental consent.

The legal drinking age, without parental consent, is 18 in the UK. But perhaps the laws are different in the wizarding community.

[go_anna40]

I don't think Butterbeer is alcoholic. Firstly, I don't think Rowling would be promoting alcohol. Secondly, little kids, maybe at the age of 10 drink this stuff, alcohol for children? No.
And just because it's strong, doesn't neccessary mean it contains alcohol. But it could be.
Maybe it's because of wizards'/witches' blood. Maybe the alcohol doesn't effect them as much.

And with Winky being drunk, maybe she spiked her own drink...

[Dedalus]

I don't see why it wouldn't be alcoholic. Alcoholic drinks have been mentioned before. Hagrid, for one, is a bit of a boozer, and we've been introduced to a pub and an inn before now. In almost every alternate street you get a pub here, so it's not a strange thing.

I think it's something like shandy (not taste-wise, though). Kids of any age can buy it in the corner shop, but it's still alcoholic. Kids buy it when they think they're being grown up by drinking alcohol, and wind up tipsy and throwing up because they've drunk too much of it and they're too small. Like certain house-elves.

[Taliesin]

Seriously... all the kids in HP drank butterbeer. I doubt Mrs Weasley would let them drink it if it had alcoholic content :D

[Guardian Angel]

We saw that Winky drank a few bottles a day which was quite serious for the Elves, but not for the humans too. So it means that elves could get drunk of it, but humans can't.

[dumbleedore]

Maybe it's just a high sugar content, like red cordial. Or it's all in the mind.

I personally don't think that it is alcoholic. And with Winky getting drunk on it, like several people have said, it could be because house elfs get different effects etc etc.

[Loz]

Maybe the question should be - can one actually brew and ferment butter???

[familiar]

Well, there is actually fermented butter. But it's not a liquid, just a condiment. :D

[Kat]

i always imagined butterbeer as a rootbeer kind of drink: it has beer in the name, but really has little to do with beer. i imagine that what makes winky tipsy isn't exactly alcohol, but rather something magical (someone mentioned it earlier in the thread). as for the taste, i imagine it to be a richer, thicker version of a cream soda with some added bite to make it taste all warm and stuff. :)

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by go_anna40 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=258581#post258581))
I don't think Butterbeer is alcoholic. Firstly, I don't think Rowling would be promoting alcohol. Secondly, little kids, maybe at the age of 10 drink this stuff, alcohol for children? No.
And just because it's strong, doesn't neccessary mean it contains alcohol. But it could be.
Maybe it's because of wizards'/witches' blood. Maybe the alcohol doesn't effect them as much.

And with Winky being drunk, maybe she spiked her own drink...

actually when they are old enough to go to hogsmeade they were in their third year and they only go to hogsmeade like 3 times a year. I can totally see it as being alcoholic, but just barley

[Crystal]

I think it's got a very slight alcohol content, probably due to a fermentation proscess. To be alcahol free a drink must be less than 0.05% (I think) proof, There are some drinks in England which are 0.02% proof (made by fentimans) which are classed as "non-alcaholic, I've always thought Butterbeer is like that.
In England the legal age at which you can buy alcahol is 18 but we have a driving age of 17!

[triki1988]

I've seen the ingredients to make your own butterbeer and it doesn't have any alcohol in it. Maybe there's a version for adults and one for minors. Just my thought.
Now, Winky, because of her size, might have gotten intoxicated more than a normal person would. But remember she had several bottles of it laying close to her.
Dunno if this has been already said, I was too lazy to read all posts.

[Yavanna]

Originally posted by HPviolinist85 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=257904#post257904))
I don't think that JKR will promote alchohal in her books.


I agree. There's root beer, and it is not alcohilic. But it may be "not strong stuff" cuz of caffeine. Caffeine can wake you up or make you hyper, but it isn't strong. I don't think it is alcoholic. I think it is a really good drink that tastes like butterscotch, not like the recipe on Mugglenet. I tried that and it was terrible. I can imagine it's taste, and I wish it were real!

[aiko amaya]

Originally posted by triki1988 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=259341#post259341))
I've seen the ingredients to make your own butterbeer and it doesn't have any alcohol in it. Maybe there's a version for adults and one for minors. Just my thought.

That is a version that kids can make at home, I think in the harry potter books it's slightly acholic but they don't want kids in the muggle world to be making alcohlic beverages at home. Just isn't right.

[Isildur]

I don't think ButterBeer is alcoholic. At least I hope not! JK wouldn't promote alcohol use in her books, especially since little kids do read these books. (They're kind of mature books though!)

I think ButterBeer is "strong" because it's enchanted, and not cuz it has alcohol or caffeine in it, although that is possible. When you drink it it gives you a kind of warm feeling, as described in the book. Obviously, it's a magical drink. Hmm i donno!:o

[Dedalus]

For those saying that J.K. Rowling wouldn't promote alcohol ...

If mentioning a drink aids as promotion, then what about Hagrid's boozing? What about the teachers boozing in the pub (and at Christmas)? What about the mentions of pubs in general?

I don't see why it wouldn't be alcoholic. Shandy is, and kids can buy that. Pubs (which, obviously, go hand in hand with beer) are incredibly common throughout the UK, to the point of one being in every alternate street. A person can have at least 6 different locals. Most soap operas revolve around pubs as well. There's certainly no shame in boozing in the UK.

[roz]

I don't see why it wouldn't be alcoholic. Shandy is, and kids can buy that.

If you mean a drink that is half beer half lemonade then no they can't, not legally any way.


I always assumed that butter beer was like ginger beer and if it had any alcohol in it at all then the amount was so low that it didn't class as alcoholic.

I think that we are wrong to assume that House Elves have the same metabloism as humans. It seems to me that people are assuming that butter beer effects Winky becuase the low alcohol content is too much for her when you consider her low body mass (along the principle that women get drunk faster than men because they have a lower body mass).

I think that house elves might instead be reacting to something else in the butter beer that is completely harmless to humans. Sugar or what ever. I have a friend who has a mild alergic reaction to diet soda which sends her hyper. She doesn't touch alcohol because she gets her high from diet coke. I think that Winky is reacting like that.

Roz.

[jr119us]

it does warm you up inside...

[Dedalus]

Originally posted by roz (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=261827#post261827))
If you mean a drink that is half beer half lemonade then no they can't, not legally any way.

I did when I was younger, and not just from the one shop. Every corner shop would sell it.


Another point to make for it being alcoholic ... Harry said "it isn't strong, that stuff" ... if it wasn't alcoholic he would have just said "it isn't alcoholic". Saying that it isn't strong implies that it has a small alcohol content.

[Adalia Dillon]

Ok, my two cents. Drinks that are deemed as alcoholic by the laws of a country/state are therefore classified as alcoholic, though drinks that aren't are not.

Butterbeer is a non-alcoholic drink. Why? Because no-one in their right mind would give an alcoholic drink to minors. Not to mention Rowling seems to be instituting hidden morals in her books and I doubt one of them would be "Yeah, have a nice drink if you think you'll feel better".

[Jessie]

I think it's slightly alcoholic...but at the same time, maybe not. All I can say is that it sounds tasty! :p

[remo]

I thought the drinking age in the UK (and all over Europe) was much lower than in the US. My brother toured Europe when he was 16 and they drank a lot.
Isn't it even customary (at least in France) to drink wine with meals (even children).
I thought butterbeer had some alcohol in it. Not a lot, more like a wine cooler or malt beverage, even less than those actually. Like 1%, or even less. It's not like they are giving them vodka or whisky.

[Loz]

In the UK it is 18 - but throughout other parts of Europe it is either lower, or they do not have a restriction ;)

[jordmundt6]

No. Is Ginger Ale alcoholic? House elves just process it differently. Like Woodstock from Peanuts passing out on root beer.

[Cat]

'It isn't strong, that stuff'. Remember? That provides a HUGE implication that it does have some miniscule alcohol content.

As for JKR 'promoting' alcohol... let me just say that I find politically correct American youths quite hilarious. In a good way, I promise. Hagrid drinks alcoholic things all the time. At least two pubs are mentioned and Harry has entered them. Teachers also get tipsy during celebrations. They're British.... they don't have such a large aversion to the ale as some Americans have. It's all in good lilly-livered fun.

By the way, Dedalus was right. Minors most certainly can buy shandy here. I checked.

[Rowena Ravenclaw]

In many countries, it's believed that the best way to have kids grow up to be responsible drinkers is to expose them to very small, heavily diluted amounts of wine or something similar when they're young, and gradually increase the potency. In that way, they come to know not only their tolerance level, but that alcohol is something to be enjoyed in moderation, rather than abused whenever they can get hold of it. Butterbeer may work on a similar principle. It's not as readily available as, say, pumpkin juice, so the kids understand it's to be reserved for special celebrations with friends.

Or maybe house-elves just are really sensitive to sugar. That, or they've got incredible willpower when it comes to all the yummy stuff they have to bake.

[Filius Flitwick]

Did anyone ever see the show Alien Nation? It was on during the 80's and early 90's and involved how alien's immigrated to Earth. Anywho, the aliens reacted to milk just as humans reacted to alcohol. Maybe the milk is like to those aliens as Butterbear is to the house elves.

[Mary Jane]

I agree with those that say it is probably slightly alcoholic and Winky was probably drunk on the stuff because she is small and consumed quite a quantity of it.

I've always imagined that it tasted like cream soda. mmm.

[Mini'Grid]

you can buy Shandy's at your local supermarket regardless of your age, theyre on the shelves. They contain alchohol to about 0.05 %. A beer has about 0.5 per cent. Itsd not strong, but it is alchoholic.

Winky was obviously suffering from alchoholism, basically she was a drunk.

[Lestrange]

Hmm.....I have slightly differenr insights to this. I think that butterbeer is a very old drink, that used to have a consideral amount of alcohlol in it, but as times changed, they developed this drink for kids, and decided to either take out all the alcohol altogether and just sweeten it, or leave very little alcohol in it. I'm modelling this theory after Coke, by the way.

And if it was alcoholic enough, wouldn't you see Fred and George playing quite a bit more jokes on people? I can imagine it:

"Hey, Ginny, want to try a-- stop laughing, George-- Butterbeer?" <muffled laugh>

[Mini'Grid]

thats a good theory, coke had cocaine in it, tho, not alchohol....cocaine is quiet a lot worse that alchohol tho. But yeah, thats a definte possibility.
I think it definately has some alchohol in it though.

[Prof.Aze]

Maybe it is but just a little though. Because if it is very alcoholic of course the professors wouldn't allow them to drink butterbeer and Madam Rosmerta won't sell them one.

[Ellen]

The thing about Winky drinking it is that she'd still have to drink a really large amount (for her) to get drunk if butterbear acts on House Elves the same way it acts on humans. So, no matter what it's made of, I think it has a stronger effect on House Elves.

This makes more sense if its effect is caused by magic. At least, House Elves seem a lot like humans physically (although who knows?) but they're very different magically with inborn skills that go by a whole different set of rules than wizards have.

So, a magic spell that just warms up a human inside could seriously mess up a House Elf.

Although it could still be a small alcohol content. Like a child who doesn't have the right enzymes to break down certain foods, maybe Winky's system can't break down alcohol properly and a small amount triggers a major reaction. But I think it would be more like Rowling for a drink made only by wizards and only sold among wizards to have something magic about it.

[DocHollidaywe]

I think it is the equality of Beer battered fish, yes it has some beer in it, but you would have to eat about 600 peice to get a "buzz" I think you would have to drink a gallon or so of Butterbeer to get an "buzz" However as it has been said, House Elves are smaller and their anatomy and stuff is different than people .... meaning something even with nothing in it could affect them in an intoxicated way.

[Imperio! (Crucio!)]

Buterbeer will be like shandy. it has alcohol in. but not enough to get a human drunk. winky is smaller than humans so her metabolism will be different to ours and the alcohol will affect her tiny body much more than ours.

[Leeloo the 5th]

I live in Europe and I must say I have never heard of an age limit for drinking. And if there is one, it certainly isn't enforced.
About the butterbeer, I definitely think it contains some alcohol and I don't have a problem with that. Next time I walk by the Three Broomsticks, I must remember to go in and have a try ;)

[miri]

In England, it's enforced patchily. Places can get closed down or fined £2000 for serving minors, but I got IDed, I think a grand total of once, in 3 years of underage drinking. If they know you're underage, they won't serve you. If they think you might be, they'll probably ID you. Then again, I've used an adult train ticket (proving I can't prove I'm under 15) to get served before, once.

I know some places don't sell boozy chocolates to people under 16. That seems silly to me.

[jasper]

I thought that stuff was non-alcoholic just like rootbeer, ginger beer (which is foul) and that it would taste like butterscotch. Then again, it is described as a warming drink, which sounds like alcohol.

Do we ever see house elves eating or drinking anything else? Food and drink may effect elves differently than humans. Maybe they get drunk on sugar.

It's really troubling that the kids would be consuming alcohol, weak or strong. I think Harry should have said "It's not alcoholic stuff" instead of "it's not strong stuff" because there's just no good reason to have the little kid audience thinking the kids are drinking alcohol.

At least we always see that charactors who consume too much strong drink in the books create problems for themselves

[SnorkackCatcher]

'It isn't strong, that stuff'. Remember? That provides a HUGE implication that it does have some miniscule alcohol content.

As for JKR 'promoting' alcohol... let me just say that I find politically correct American youths quite hilarious. In a good way, I promise. Hagrid drinks alcoholic things all the time. At least two pubs are mentioned and Harry has entered them. Teachers also get tipsy during celebrations. They're British.... they don't have such a large aversion to the ale as some Americans have. It's all in good lilly-livered fun.

By the way, Dedalus was right. Minors most certainly can buy shandy here. I checked.


Have to agree with Cat's comment. I've always assumed Butterbeer is a bit like the weak shandies sold in British stores in terms of alcohol content.

In fact, I don't think there's much mileage in objecting to the idea of kids in HP drinking alcohol - remember that they are supposed to be part of the wizarding world, not the real world, and this presumably has very different assumptions and laws.

Throughout the books wizards use all sorts of things that affect people in ways that are far more specific and powerful than a weakly alcoholic drink (or for that matter any of the well-known real-life illegal drugs). Consider all those potions and spells! (e.g. Draught of Peace? Cheering Charms? Billywig stings?) If wizards are willing to let their kids experience this sort of stuff, then alcohol is probably (excuse the pun) small beer.

[PhoenixUK]

I made it up. I imagine it to taste a little bit like less-sickly butterscotch.

In GoF it says that house elves can get drunk on butterbeer, but wizards can't. So either it has very low on no alcohol content.

[Eruanna]

i think its like shandy, which can be bought by kida in UK cos it contains 'less than 0.5% abv' so it is legally a soft drink. you'd be unable to get drunk on it cos you'd have to wee before you got enough in your bloodstrem! but houseelves are a lot smaller so they could, theoretically, get drunk on shandy.

it might contain magical properties that have an effect slightly like alcohol but aren;t harmful in anyway or whatever, but they affect elves too strongly or something...

[Cat]

In GoF it says that house elves can get drunk on butterbeer, but wizards can't. So either it has very low on no alcohol content.


Well, no, it has to have some, very low content. Otherwise the house elves wouldn't get drunk on it at all.

[marspeach]

Yes, it has to have some alcohol in it if it can get Winky drunk. Of course, there is always the age-old question, "What exactly is butterbeer?" I wish it were real, I've wanted to try it since PoA.

[daniel4hp]

I am certain that there is some alchohol in butterbeer -- I think that if there was none, Winky wouldn't get drunk on it. However, it seems the alchoholic contest is sufficiently small as to allow minors to drink it. But if it had no alchohol in it, Winky would not have gotten drunk on it.

[Ellen]

Caffeine normally wakes you up and can make you hyper. But, if a person with a migraine takes it, they may be unable to stay awake. That's humans who are all made pretty much the same way. I don't know what butterbeer's supposed to be made of, but its effect on humans (other than warming them up) is negligible and its effect on house elves is pretty dire.

[Bee]

I am 100% positive Butterbeer has alcohol in it, or at least some sort of magical intoxicator, as someone said. It won't make wizards "drunk", but it made Winky drunk. And then there is something called Firewhisky that has enough alcohol to make a wizard drunk.

[xFallenxAngelx]

If it is alcohol then why are they selling it to young wizards Surely there has to be some law forbidding young wizards from comsuming alcohol :shrug:

[hesdead-dealwithit]

If it is alcohol then why are they selling it to young wizards Surely there has to be some law forbidding young wizards from comsuming alcohol :shrug:

Not necessarily. In germany, I know, they sell beers to minors. And if it's only intoxicating for houseelves, why wouldn't they sell it?

[Dedalus]

If it is alcohol then why are they selling it to young wizards Surely there has to be some law forbidding young wizards from comsuming alcohol :shrug:
They sell shandy to under 18s in the UK as well, and that has alcohol in it. It's alright if it has a very low content, as I'm sure butterbeer does (hence Harry's "it isn't strong, that stuff" comment).

[daniel4hp]

If it is alcohol then why are they selling it to young wizards Surely there has to be some law forbidding young wizards from comsuming alcohol :shrug:
As long as the amount of alchohol was very low, there would be no reason not to sell it to minors. After all, its not like they are selling beers.

[Loz]

It would take a large amount of butterbeer to make a human drunk, I think (remember how small House Elves are) and the same effect it would produce would probably be the same as 4 energy drinks, you know, really buzzed up and nutty for a while before falling in a heap in the corner, drooling from the corner of your mouth.

[Kelpie]

I agree with Dedalus and everyone else who said it was probably more like Shandy (in alcoholic content) which you can buy from pretty much any age. You know, I never quite realised how different the attitudes to drinking alcohol were between England and America until I came here. Even though I only usually drink socially and don't get drunk too often, I feel like an alcoholic in comparison.

There are different types of Shandy. When I was under 8, my mum would only let me drink SunCharm Shandy, which might as well be lemonade. But then I was allowed to drink the stronger stuff, like they serve in pubs. Which is sufficient to get a child a little drunk if they over-indulged. (I do recall me and my best friend getting drunk on Shandy on her 8th birthday. We pretty much just got all giddy and silly for a while, then felt a bit sick. But we had drunk lots).

Drinking is apparently more accepted over here, but it's not like JKR is having the children getting drunk.

[Avera-kedavra]

its alcoholic. winky was drunk off it in the fourth book. but it took her 6 bottles.

p.s i didnt read the rest of the posts..so it might sound repetetive.

[ProfessorSnapesGrl]

I think it was metioned to have a tiny bit of alcohol but not enough to get a human drunk but enough to get winky drunk.

[solidusx3]

I don't know how Winky is getting drunk off of it. She isn't THAT much smaller than some 11 year-old's, so it could just be that elves react differently to it, like other people are saying.

By the way, does anyone remember Ron being really excited about someone having (or getting) firewhisky for the Gryffindor common room, in OotP? LOL, we gotta watch that kid, he doesn't seem so innocent anymore.

[The Green Fool]

One thing we should remember is that JKR has set the wizarding world in something akin to British/European medieval society when alcohol was consumed by everyone all of the time (hey - that sounds familiar). :cool: Attitudes to the consumption of alcohol in Britain (but not Europe) have changed considerably since these times which is why some people have a problem with the characters drinking Butterbeer. You would not, however, find this problem in Europe (France or Spain, for example) because they still have a very relaxed attitude towards drinking and it is not seen to have such a negative effect on society.

I agree that Butterbeer is probably a very very low alcohol drink and that house elves must just have a low tolerance to it making them get drunk that much easier.

[Alcina]

I don't see why alcohol wouldn't be allowed on Campus (!). I've worked as a teacher in a British boarding school, and certainly there were parties for the teachers on site where a lot of alcohol was drunk. During Sunday lunch every week the teachers would drink wine provided by the school while they were sitting at tables with the students. At end of term parties, all students over the age of 14 were allowed one glass of beer, as a gift from the school. So I'm a bit puzzled by the assumption that the school wouldn't allow drinking.

[Kelpie]

I went to a Roman Catholic Primary school and wine was served at mass (obviously :rolleyes: ) and also to the parents on Open Days. When we were in Year 6 (aged about 10/11) we were each given a small glass of wine as a reward for helping organise the classroom. My little sister is allowed one glass of wine at Sunday dinner (which, as far as I know, is perfectly legal here, as long as the kid doesn't end up getting drunk or hung over on a regular basis, in which case, Social Services will most likely object).

[SnorkackCatcher]

If it is alcohol then why are they selling it to young wizards Surely there has to be some law forbidding young wizards from comsuming alcohol :shrug:

Remember they're wizards - they must be used to all sorts of odd things happening to them. The effects of alcohol have got to be fairly mundane compared to all those trick sweets and what-have-you that the students can buy in Honeydukes, not to mention all the charms and curses that they get hit with, so I don't see why wizarding lawmakers would pay much attention to booze.

I seem to remember mulled wine being served at feasts, and I noticed in OoP that Luna was drinking something called Gillywater in the discussion with Hermione and Rita Skeeter? That's the same thing McGonagall was drinking in the PoA "let Harry find out that Sirius is his godfather" scene, so it's a reasonable guess it's alcoholic. (Mind you, if the name means it's brewed from Gillyweed, it might have some other undesirable effects!)

Also, apparently there are antidotes - Dobby mentions that he found some in the Room of Requirement - so even if someone did get drunk, presumably Madam Pomfrey would just give them a dose of the counter-agent. Got to be easier than regrowing bones or repairing the effects of using Polyjuice Potion with a cat hair ... :eyebrows:

[Elisabeth36]

I think it's got a very slight alcohol content, probably due to a fermentation proscess. To be alcahol free a drink must be less than 0.05% (I think) proof, There are some drinks in England which are 0.02% proof (made by fentimans) which are classed as "non-alcaholic, I've always thought Butterbeer is like that.
In England the legal age at which you can buy alcahol is 18 but we have a driving age of 17!


I think butterbeer is a nice drink with a very slight alcoholic content. i would love to have one myself, and prehaps a few sweets or pumpkin pasties to go with it. I believe a witch or wizard could have a couple of butterbeers without getting drunk. However, when you're a house elf, it could be different. Also, Winky was drinking at least seven or eight bottles of butterbeers. That would definitely have an effect on someone as small as a house elf. As for Rebus Hagrid having butterbeer in his house, I think he must have added something strong to it, as he seems to like drinking alcoholic beverages.

[Cat]

Remember they're wizards - they must be used to all sorts of odd things happening to them. The effects of alcohol have got to be fairly mundane compared to all those trick sweets and what-have-you that the students can buy in Honeydukes, not to mention all the charms and curses that they get hit with, so I don't see why wizarding lawmakers would pay much attention to booze.

That depends. Certain beverages and other substances the-likes-of-which-will-hopefully-never-be-introduced-in-Harry-Potter can cause a person to hallucinate and imagine that they are seeing, say, pink elephants. If you were a person born with a natural inclination towards magic, a force which never says 'never!', Ministry workers might have to rush in and subdue that bloody pink elephant that's just been accidentally conjured.

And am I the only person that doesn't like the sound of Butterbeer? All other food and drink mentioned in Harry Potter makes me ravenous, but the sound of Butterbeer, even though I don't have a clue what it would taste like, makes me queasy.

[Loz]

Personally I prefer the sound of butterbeer to pumpkin juice. I am curious as to how it tastes, but I have my own ideas for that. I still think it only has a small alcohol content or none at all, but some ingredient house-elves can become intoxicated on.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

That depends. Certain beverages and other substances the-likes-of-which-will-hopefully-never-be-introduced-in-Harry-Potter can cause a person to hallucinate and imagine that they are seeing, say, pink elephants.

It's too late - they already have been introduced. Not the books, at least, but in Fantastic Beasts. There's a magical animal that stings that Australian wizards let themselves be stung on purpose so they can feel the after effects. Allegedly the subtsance that causes the effects is also in Fizzing Whizbees.

[Loz]

I knew there was a reason I wanted to buy that book... can't remember what the little critters are called!

Joking, joking... but since I live in Australia and you can all tell, I felt it my duty to do so.

[Prof.Aze]

Maybe it does have alcohol but a just a little though. It has a little alcohol which makes it suitable for the the students to drink and they don't get drunk. Becuase if it is very alscoholic that makes wizard drunk then it shouldn't be allowed for the students in the first place.

[SnorkackCatcher]

It's too late - they already have been introduced. Not the books, at least, but in Fantastic Beasts. There's a magical animal that stings that Australian wizards let themselves be stung on purpose so they can feel the after effects. Allegedly the subtsance that causes the effects is also in Fizzing Whizbees.

It's called a "Billywig" (supposed to be a small very fast insect), and it causes levitation - i.e. real levitation, not just feeling like you are aws with some of the reported effects of actual hallucinogens.

There's something in there AFAIR about not overindulging in the stings or permanent floating may result ...

[LuvCreevey]

I like how Lupin is gonna give harry a special treat and Harry's like "ohh, butterbeer, yeah I like that stuff" - I can totally imagine Lupin's expression. I don't know about you - but I always imagine butterbeer to taste like butterscotch hard boiled sweets and toffee with a bit of bite.[/QUOTE]


That is what I was thinking about too. Poor Lupin. I always though Butterbeer was nonalcholic, but now that I am thinknig about it, Is that why we never really heard about H&R&HR having any before their 3rd year. It does not seem as popular and pumkin juice, or as readily avalible at Hogwarts. I guess that is because it does have a slight bit in it.

[Perdita]

It's really troubling that the kids would be consuming alcohol, weak or strong. I think Harry should have said "It's not alcoholic stuff" instead of "it's not strong stuff" because there's just no good reason to have the little kid audience thinking the kids are drinking alcohol.

At least we always see that charactors who consume too much strong drink in the books create problems for themselves

I know of quite a few friends who have lived or grew up in England. Based on the stories they've told me, it is not a big deal for children as young as 13 to be drinking diluted alcoholic beverages. Parents allow their children to drink it, and it's not viewed in the same way as it is in North America (I don't know about the rest of the world).

I think it was a stroke of realism on JKR's part to depict her young characters drinking a very weak form of alcoholic beverages, if that's the common practice of British children.

[Kelpie]

I know of quite a few friends who have lived or grew up in England. Based on the stories they've told me, it is not a big deal for children as young as 13 to be drinking diluted alcoholic beverages. Parents allow their children to drink it, and it's not viewed in the same way as it is in North America (I don't know about the rest of the world).

I think it was a stroke of realism on JKR's part to depict her young characters drinking a very weak form of alcoholic beverages, if that's the common practice of British children.


True (though it really depends on the parents). I wouldn't worry, I'm pretty sure that JKR isn't going to have them drinking anything much stronger. Though she may have Ron trying some of that Firewhiskey and no doubt thinking it's horrible. It's pretty common here, for some kids aged about 14/15 to hang out in parks etc drinking cheap cider and therefore never being able to touch the stuff as an adult. But I'm sure that JKR will find a balance between depicting more realistic British teenagers and not sending the wrong message to younger readers.

I always imagined Butterbeer as tasting more like Butterscotch too. Not sure why - it would make for one weird drink!!

[thrasonicalella]

From Goblet of Fire, Page 536, American Edition Paperback:


Harry looked over at the fireplace too. Winky was sitting on the same stool as last time, but she had allowed herself to become so filthy that she was not immediately distinguishable from the smoke-blackened brick behind her. Her clothes were ragged and unwashed. She was clutching a bottle of butterbeer and swaying slightly on her stool, staring into the fire. As they watched her, she gave an enormous hiccup.
"Winky is getting through six bottles a day now," Dobby whispered to Harry.
"Well, it's not stong, that stuff," Harry said.
But Dobby shook his head. "Tis strong for a house-elf, sir," he said.
_________________________________________________________________

I thought this thread was pretty funny because I thought it was so obvious that butterbeer was alcoholic. I always imagined butterbeer as having a kind of butter-rummy flavor. I bet it's good, even if it's not strong. Did you know that non-alcoholic beer (like Sharp's or O'Doul's) still has 2% alcohol? That's why minors still can't buy non-alcholic beer. So if you drank enough of it in a short period of time, you would still be able to get drunk from it. I imagine that that is something like what butterbeer is like. It probably has a very small alcoholic content, but could still get you drunk if you drank enough in a short time. Six bottles of butterbeer for a little tiny house-elf? No wonder she passed out! ;-)

[Alcina]

I know of quite a few friends who have lived or grew up in England. Based on the stories they've told me, it is not a big deal for children as young as 13 to be drinking diluted alcoholic beverages. Parents allow their children to drink it, and it's not viewed in the same way as it is in North America (I don't know about the rest of the world).

I think it was a stroke of realism on JKR's part to depict her young characters drinking a very weak form of alcoholic beverages, if that's the common practice of British children.

I'm British, and my parents gave me sherry diluted with lemonade every night from the age of 6 (about half a pub measure of alcohol in total). At parties such as weddings, and at Christmas, they let me drink wine from about the age of 8 (it took about 2 glasses to make me fall over at that age...just call me Winky :-) No one thought it was odd.

[Hpmons]

Im from England, and Ive had a small bit of wine/sherry/other alcohol since i was 5 (its legal to drink from home at that age), mostly just at Christmas. Since i was 10, I have had glasses of wine or champagne at dinner sometimes.

Now Im 14, and I drink much less alcohol than a lot of people I know. Most parties serve alcohol in England, and a lot fo alcohol is almost designed for teens or 20 somethings (e.g. Alcopops and Bacardi).
No one in my year has never had alcohol, half the year have been drunk at some point in their lives; and about 10 people get drunk on a regular basis. And I go to a top private school, so probably even more people would drink at state schools.

[Charmed Cheese]

lol, It's interesting the see the huge culture gap.

Here in Canada, as with everything else, we're in between the States and England. Our legal age is 19 or 18 depending on the province, and many adults drink alcohol in many social occaisions, but it's not really custum for children to drink it.

It's a very American attitude to associate alcohol with corruption, instead of associating drunkness with corruption. I have a friend who lives in the southern states and she says people give her mom dirty looks because she has a glass of wine with supper on occaision. Although drunkeness and acholosim is serious and harmful, the idea that alcohol itself is evil, is purely myth. It's like anything else: too much of anything is bad, but when taken in moderation, it's fine. For example, fatty foods: too much will cause a heart attack, but it doesn't mean we can't have fat in our diets.

So Americans, I hope your paying attention to these posts, and understand the culture difference, so it's not a simple matter of "JK can't give kids alcohol!"

[Alci]

In germany, I know, they sell beers to minors. And if it's only intoxicating for houseelves, why wouldn't they sell it?
In the UK they only sell v low alcohol beer to <16s. If you are 16 you can buy any alcohol with a meal, but only at 18 can you buy any alcohol at the bar itself.

Public schools (read private) generally allow pupils to visit pubs either on weekends or on Exeat [L="let him go forth"] weekends providing they are >16. Also they often serve wine with certain school events

[jasper]

Either way. Butterbeer sounds like something people would want to try. But what about pumpkin juice? Everytime I read that I think: yuk.

[Zachary1993]

Is butterbeer alcoholic? I know it is but it seems funny that it is easy to access. I don't know if England is different or if in the wizarding world you're allowed to drink when you're as young as Harry and his friends, it just puzzles me. In GoF Winky gets rather drunk drinking butterbeer and Harry says something about it not being that strong. And also Hagrid drinks it, he has a tankard of it at his cabin. I'm just puzzled by it.

Just your thoughts, Thanks.Its probably just the name of a drink like root beer and ginger beer and those have no alchol in them.

[mafiawizard]

Is butterbeer alcoholic? I know it is but it seems funny that it is easy to access. I don't know if England is different or if in the wizarding world you're allowed to drink when you're as young as Harry and his friends, it just puzzles me. In GoF Winky gets rather drunk drinking butterbeer and Harry says something about it not being that strong. And also Hagrid drinks it, he has a tankard of it at his cabin. I'm just puzzled by it.

Just your thoughts, Thanks.

I don't think that butterbeer is alcoholic because remember Harry, and his friends were only 13 when they first had butterbeer. I don't think that even in the wizarding world that the would be allowed to have beer. And as for the drinking in France it is customary for children to drink wine. But I do not think they are allowed to drink beer. England may have the same kinds of laws being close by. But it is best to for someone from England to answer the question of when you are allowed to drink.

[Furienna]

I just think it is a wizard soda.

[Cat]

I don't think that butterbeer is alcoholic because remember Harry, and his friends were only 13 when they first had butterbeer. I don't think that even in the wizarding world that the would be allowed to have beer. And as for the drinking in France it is customary for children to drink wine. But I do not think they are allowed to drink beer. England may have the same kinds of laws being close by. But it is best to for someone from England to answer the question of when you are allowed to drink.

You are allowed to purchase drinks with a miniscule quantity of alchohol in them from any age, I think. Shandy, for instance. I loved shandy when I was about ten.

Sorry, but it's obviously alcoholic. If it had no trace of alchohol, Winky would not have been drunk at all and Harry would not have said 'It's not strong, that stuff...', he would have said 'It's not alchoholic...'.

[Drusilla]

It's probably only mildly alchoholic.The inference I got off Harry's statement in GoF-'It's not strong,that stuff ' was that it contained alchohol all right,but not enough to get a person drunk-not a human,anyway.Elf physiology probably differs from human physiology that way.

[Vigilance]

I agree, it's probably like having watered wine or something. Maybe it's a mix of rootbeer or soda water and regular beer?

[Blodeuedd]

I definitely think butterbeer is alcoholic, not much though.
I live in France so I've never heard of shandy before, but I can figure out what it is, and I'm sure butterbeer is something quite like that.
As for habits and morals, I can't give direct examples because my family isn't French, but I've often heard about children drinking cider at crêpe places and cider contains +/- as much alcohol as beer, and same about wine at Christmas, yet the legal age is 16 (but you can go to a supermarket and buy beer and say it's for your parents if they ever ask!).
When I've been in England for the last time, I stayed at a friend's, we were both 17, and her parents didn't have any problem with her going to a pub and drink ; we went to that pub, 99% of the people in there were under 18 and most of them were drinking alcohol. I don't think anyone living in Britain will tell me it was an exception, or at least, that's the idea I got.
So I think it's a matter of culture...
However, if it's not alcoholic, it has definitely got a magical content that has effects quite similar to alcohol, so that's Winky gets drunk after 6 bottles.
Anyway, I'd love to try it, I don't think it tastes litteraly like beer w/ butter in it, but something sweet quite like toffee ^_^ *yummy* :p (it's funny to see we all have different ideas on the taste of butterbeer)

[Vigilance]

Quote from Blodeuedd "Anyway, I'd love to try it, I don't think it tastes litteraly like beer w/ butter in it, but something sweet quite like toffee ^_^ *yummy* "

I was imagining butterscotch!

You know, Coca-Cola is *supposed* to taste like caramel, but it doesn't really. Also Coke was originally supposed to simulate the effervescence of beer and be a non-alcoholic substitute (which included cocaine, instead-- :lol: ). But, of course, it's really nothing like beer at all!

[[Pretty]_[Unicorn]]

I think Butterbeet is something like a soda and maybe it has somehting that is like caffeine which makes people very peppy and then very tired and sick.

[Furienna]

In the UK they only sell v low alcohol beer to <16s. If you are 16 you can buy any alcohol with a meal, but only at 18 can you buy any alcohol at the bar itself.

Public schools (read private) generally allow pupils to visit pubs either on weekends or on Exeat [L="let him go forth"] weekends providing they are >16. Also they often serve wine with certain school events

I was in London this summer, and the signs in the stores used to stay: "Under 16, no cigarettes. Under 18, no alcohol".

In Sweden, only mild beer and mild cider can be baught in ordinary stores. Other alcoholic drinks has to be ordered in a restaurant or at a bar, or bought in special public alcohol stores, "Systembolaget". For ordering alcohol in restaurants and bars, you have to be 18. To buy it at Systembolaget, you have to be 20. However, I don't drink alcohol because of three reasons:
1: It tastes like ****.
2: You can get drunk.
3: You can get addicted.
So you wouldn't see me order alcohol at restaurants and bars, though I have been able to do so for a year now, and you won't see shopping at Systembolaget when I turn 20 this summer either.

[Dedalus]

As well as the fact that Winky got drunk of it and Harry saying "it isn't strong", another thing that makes me sure it's mildly alcoholic is Lupin saying "Let's drink to a Gryffindor victory" ... you normally only "drink to" something with an alcoholic drink.

But, yes, under 18s can drink alcohol - they can't buy it, but they can drink it at meals or something like that. And they can buy drinks with a very low alcoholic content - as with Cat, I used to like shandy when I was little and could buy that any where.

[FreyaCrescent]

I definitely think it's slightly alcoholic. Not a lot, I don't think you would have a load of Hogwarts students rolling around drunk after a Hogsmeade weekend, but there must be some slight alcohol content.

I think the Winky incident is best proof of this - she wouldn't have been drunk at all if Butterbeer had no alcohol, and like many have said before me, Harry would have said "It's not alcoholic" instead of "It's not strong, that stuff".
As well as the fact that Winky got drunk of it and Harry saying "it isn't strong", another thing that makes me sure it's mildly alcoholic is Lupin saying "Let's drink to a Gryffindor victory" ... you normally only "drink to" something with an alcoholic drink.
Agreed. When someone "drinks to your health", it's not usually with a Coke.

[Alcina]

I definitely think it's slightly alcoholic. Not a lot, I don't think you would have a load of Hogwarts students rolling around drunk after a Hogsmeade weekend, but there must be some slight alcohol content.


Though why I'm not sure. When I worked in a boarding school they always rolled back on the bus drunk when we took them shopping on Saturdays. They were also enterprising enough to hire a taxi to follow the bus back to school full of bottles of vodka which the driver then handed over the back gate :-)

I suspect that butterbeer is very weak by human standards, but it occurs to me that perhaps house elves lack alcohol dehydrogenase and so can't break it down in their liver. If this were the case, even butterbeer might get them drunk, as it would take ages to leave their bodies. Wheras a human might break it down fast enough not to notice its effects at all.

Incidently we do know that there are some rules/laws on underage drinking, as when the kids meet to discuss the formation of the DA in the Hog's Head Ron speculates that the barman might be prepared to sell him firewhiskey. Which implies that other places in Hogmeade won't, and that they shouldn't be drinking it.

[crumseekerlynch]

I was just wondering, does anybody else think that it's wierd that 13 year olds are drinking beer and do you think it will play a role in future books. What if butterbeer is dangerous and a student is killed or hurt badly? Personally I don't understand why they don't have an age limit, and I think it's going to lead to somebody's demise or something like that. Also I noticed that a lot of people in the wizarding world and the OotP drink, and what if they were drunk when they were trying to fight Voldemort. It wouldn't turn out very good at all.

[Nicole]

Dangerous for a house-elf, yes. Dangerous to human teens....might depend on how many they drink. I think they have to watch out for Ogden's Old Firewhisky myself.

[crumseekerlynch]

I was focusing more on the is it dangerous than the is it alcoholic part. I was also wondering about the rest of the wizarding world and the OotP.

[godrics hollow]

of course its not dangerous...
what about it having 1% alchohol content and its probably not beer anyways just a name madam rosmertas recipe trolley or whatever dont put beer in her's (thats on thsi site i mean) so no it wont play a role at all too much pottermania again

[sasha bear]

It's kind of like root beer.. root beer isn't really beer and it's not made out of roots.

It only gets house elves drunk anyway. And Winky probably drank a ton of it too.

[godrics hollow]

6 bottles a day and call a bottle 500 ml's

then multiply by 2 or 3 cause of the house elves size compared to human and u have the intoxication lvl wow im smart :P lol jk the yah u have to multiply cause they wee and small

[petruchio]

It's kind of like root beer.. root beer isn't really beer and it's not made out of roots.

It only gets house elves drunk anyway. And Winky probably drank a ton of it too.
Actually, it USED to be both. It was made from sassafras extract (which is gleaned from the roots), and it used to be fermented. So, in that respect, it's actually a correct name.

As for butterbeer being dangerous to thirteen-year-olds, I think Americans have a decidedly provincial attitude about alcoholic beverages in general and beer in particular. In Germany, there is no drinking age (or at least there didn't used to be), and you don't see too many 13-year-old alcoholics roaming the streets looking for a buck to buy a 40 ouncer. Besides, butterbeer doesn't get humans drunk. Says so in black and white (PoA).

[crumseekerlynch]

It says it's hard to but if you drank enough it would. What about the other wizards? It seems to me they're always putting firewiskyin their drinks and Lokhart said he wouldn't mind gettinf it for Christmas. What's up with all the Wizards drinking?

[morgiana]

I don't think Butterbeer is all that strong. It does get Winky drunk but she's not very big and drinks alot.

So far there aren't any students overdoing it. It would be hard to carry enough to keep you from one Hogsmeade trip to another. Even if you levitated it, it would draw alot of attention.

Americans do over emote about alcohol which only makes kids want to drink.

Dangerous No Way!

[Aoweil]

I think you should be worried about them getting drunk more from Firewhiskey than Butter Beer. ;)

[jesssa]

It's kind of like root beer.. root beer isn't really beer and it's not made out of roots.

It only gets house elves drunk anyway. And Winky probably drank a ton of it too.
poor poor winky.

[Danluver182]

in the fourth book it was either harry or ron (I think Ron) and they said that it wasn't strong. So I think it just has a different effect on house elves. Maybe it's just one of those things they can't handle. But Idon't think it has an effect on regular wizards.

[harryhippie67]

Butterbeer dangerous? Comeon how do you even consider a 1 or 2 percent acohol level drink dangerous. And its not even a bit strong because Harry being from england and being a hated child would have never have had beer or something strong before. Hinting that the first time he drank he butterbeer he would have had a tough time taking it down.

[shamrocknroll02]

Also I noticed that a lot of people in the wizarding world and the OotP drink, and what if they were drunk when they were trying to fight Voldemort. It wouldn't turn out very good at all.

On a personal note, I think I would have to be drunk to fight Lord Voldemort! :lol:

If butterbeer is only 1-2 percent alcohol, that's no more than a wine-cooler and they barely do anything. (unless you're a house-elf ;) ) Well, that's what I heard... :whistle:

~Stacey :rave:

[Red Quaffle]

Drinking isn't the same as being drunk. The kids would probably have to drink a keg of butterbeer before they started to feel like Winky. I think the age is 16 now for drinking in Germany, by the way.

Personally, Coca Cola sounds more dangerous to me.

[enid]

Well, depending on what kind of butter is used, I suppose it could harden you arteries. I'm guessing wizards use the really unhealthy suff. If they were introduced to I Can"t Believe It's Not Butter, maybe they could make I Can't Believe It's Not ButterBeer!

It does sound as though butterbeer is more along the lines of cream soda or rootbeer.

[elfgirl831]

If they use a trans-fatty acid free butter and little alchohol, it's probably harmless for anyone age 12+. With house elves and other small creatures it could be harmful. Although who said that there was any alchohol in butterbeer? Rootbeer doesn't have any.

[Freeradical]

Well, depending on what kind of butter is used, I suppose it could harden you arteries. I'm guessing wizards use the really unhealthy suff. If they were introduced to I Can"t Believe It's Not Butter, maybe they could make I Can't Believe It's Not ButterBeer!

It does sound as though butterbeer is more along the lines of cream soda or rootbeer.

Bite your toungue! :scared: Oleomargerinebeer sounds awful.

<shivers at the concept>

[sere35]

I thought it had a small amount of alchohol. Sort of like a wine cooler.

[Mr Trix]

Well, as Petruchio stated, it doesn't get humans drunk. JKR stated this in POA. Even if it was hypothetically alcoholic, think of it in terms of Wine Gums...i don't think you can get drunk on them unless you ate a million. As is with hypothetical-alcoholic-butterbeer. We need to be careful my fellow Witches and Wizards, if we don't watch ourselves someone will write a whole delusional thesis on 'How the Harry Potter books encourage under-aged drinking' :rolleyes:

But i think in answer to that primary question, is butterbeer dangerous? I would have to say only if you froze it and smashed someone over the head with it. :lol:

I hope you're taking notes voldy!..... :gryff:

[Tane]

Rootbeer is not alcoholic and well Butterbeer does not seem to have the same giggly, over reacting effects you seem to get with real alcohol so I would say it is completely harmful to the students or we would see them hexing everyone they meet. Then again hexing Draco might be fun for the trio. :evil:

[ComicBookWorm]

I think it tastes like butterscotch soda and is not alcoholic. I really don't see JKR having the kids drink alcohol. I think it is just like root beer and ginger beer and is not alcoholic at all.

[MrsTrix]

I would say that Butter Beer is definatley not dangerous!

Mr Trix, dont give people ideas!! :p

If they were drinking spirits I would say, yes that is not a good impression to give off but a form of root beer is not something I would worry about. :)

[cristina]

Defenitly it´s not dangerous because if it was, madam Rosmerta wouldn´t let young people drink it, :)

[MrsTrix]

Very good point! :eyebrows:

[Sophie Patil]

In Germany, there is no drinking age (or at least there didn't used to be), and you don't see too many 13-year-old alcoholics roaming the streets looking for a buck to buy a 40 ouncer.

the drinking age for low-percentage drinks in germany is 16... But still not all germans are alcoholics ;) so, I agree with you, and seriously, in the states, there is hardly a 21 year-old who has never had alcohol before... I rather had the impression, that more ppl drink more excessively over there, because it has the 'forbidden aspect' or something...
you're right, just because you can, doesn't mean you must, and just because you can't doesn't mean that you won't.

I really don't think that butterbeer is dangerous, or alcoholic. possibly it looks like beer and that where the name came from. I mean, what do cocktail's names got to do with the actual drinks?

It's just the kids version of beer. oh, and there must be a restriction age for alcoholic drinks, because ron jokes about getting a fire whiskey, because the bar tender at the hog's head wouldn't care how old he is... and herm is like 'Ron! ou're a prefect' so it won't be legal..it's probably the same drinking age as UK's is..

and why would they serve the ppl butterbeer if it was dangerous? and how would that influence the plot? will there be an epidemia (is that the right word anyway?)

[Morgan]

I doubt it's dangerous because it's not alcholic. It's like cider you buy in the shop in Sweden, it's a kids drink with no alcohol in it at all. And if it was alcoholic, do you really think JKR would have 11-year olds drinking it?

On a side note, does anyone know why "Harryhippe67" has been banned? :huh:

[petruchio]

the drinking age for low-percentage drinks in germany is 16... But still not all germans are alcoholics ;) so, I agree with you, and seriously, in the states, there is hardly a 21 year-old who has never had alcohol before... I rather had the impression, that more ppl drink more excessively over there, because it has the 'forbidden aspect' or something...

Thanks for the info... when I was there (which admittedly was in 1984) there was no drinking age. And as far as I can tell from my research, because the German people are brought up with it and insofar as parents are a bit less straitjacketed with regard to alcohol distribution laws, there tends to be a healthier attitude with regard to drinking alcohol, and hence less alcoholism. After all, "binge drinking" seems to be a uniquely American phenomenon, and often leads to alcohol abuse and dependency. Having traveled extensively during my years in the US Navy, I have witnessed firsthand the effects of bingeing on beer, which is why I swore off beer and wine while in the service of my country.

But, the question wasn't, "is butterbeer alcoholic?"; rather, "is butterbeer dangerous?". The unequivocal answer to this question is no, regardless of how much alcohol is in it, much like wine is not dangerous per se, but is dangerous when consumed excessively or abused.

[Flee From Death]

I think it is very slightly alcoholic, just as ginger beer and root beer used to be. But it just has only about 1% alcohol. Beer is usually around 8-10% and it takes most people about 3 pints (British ones, which are larger than American ones) before you start to really feel the effects. I doubt butterbeer would have any effect on an adolescent. And I agree; if it were very alcoholic Madam Rosmerta wouldn't serve it. I'm sure they couldn't get regular beer, never mind whiskey, which is about 40% alcohol (Ithink)!

On a sidenote, people are right when they say that drinking isn't taken as seriously this side of the Atlantic. The British drinking age is 18, but most people probably start drinking a little by 14. At that age my parents started offering me a glass of wine with Sunday dinner, and from what I've heard from friends that's not really uncommon. Yet we don't have huge drinking problems.

EDIT:
Sorry, Petruchio got in whilst I was posting, and I wanted to add something.

Thanks for the info... when I was there (which admittedly was in 1984) there was no drinking age. And as far as I can tell from my research, because the German people are brought up with it and insofar as parents are a bit less straitjacketed with regard to alcohol distribution laws, there tends to be a healthier attitude with regard to drinking alcohol, and hence less alcoholism. After all, "binge drinking" seems to be a uniquely American phenomenon, and often leads to alcohol abuse and dependency.

There is actually a growing problem with binge drinking in the UK, so it's not a uniquely American phenomenon. I think no matter what the laws there are always going to be those who binge drink; how many stories have you heard about loutish behaviour involving alcohol in the middle ages? However, it is reduced, I think, if you're brought up believing that there's nothing special about alcohol, and you're taught to drink it in moderation. And that kind of attitude can be formed only when it's not "forbidden fruit" as it was put earlier.

Also, I doubt that there's a big problem with Order members going out drunk. Perhaps they do what doctors do; thaey have a night when they're "on call" so they stay sober, and when they're off they're free to have a drink if they want to.

[wHotOOkmYtAcO]

i don't think it is but then again i'm no expert. if in fact it is dangerous then harry may become and alcholic and then we'll have one more reason to pity him.

[celebrian]

it might have a small amount of alcohol in it, but so small that it would be extremely difficult to get drunk on it. i doubt its dangerous at all, it surely wouldnt be sold otherwise

there are quite a few mentions of adults drinking in ootp. mundungus always smells of drink, and the night that mr weasley is attacked, sirius has been drinking. and of course, trelawney was on the cooking sherry for half the book. i dont think alcohol abuse will necessarily play a role in the boks, but it would be interesting if some of the students did get their hands on some firewhiskey, as they have been interested in it before

as wizards come "of age" at seventeen, and are able to use magic outside of school and apparate, perhaps this would be the legal alcohol age too. in gof karkaroff was offering krum some wine, and i think he was probably 17 at the time (although the laws may be different in bulgaria, and also as krum wouldnt be purchasing the alcohol, but instead drinking a small amount of alcohol in a supervised situation, then the age limit wouldnt really apply)

[simmarina]

i dont think its dangerous

[crumseekerlynch]

Where are you guys getting that it is only 1 or 2% alcohal? it doesn't ever say that anywhere, your just making it up.

[brandonschamber]

Well they don't have many laws in Europe enforcing acholol levels for teens...so he is right to say that it might be dangerous.

[Arcturus]

I doubt there is much alcohol in it if there is any at all. JKR probably just thought butterbeer sounded better than buttersoda or buttercola.

On a side note, most people I know (in the states) stopped drinking at 21. At least stopped drinking in excess. The sport is gone if it is legal.

[DayVirgo]

As other people said, I highly doubt butterbeer is dangerous for you (at least in terms of an alcohol perspective). It's probably along the same lines of pumpkin juice. Even if it did have alcohol in it, maybe it could be the equivalent of non-alcoholic beer etc.

I also wanted to clear up some stuff about butter (as I noticed some other people commenting about it). First of all, butter would not have trans-fatty acids in them. Trans-fatty acids (or trans-fats) result from when things are hydrogenized (turning oil into margarine). Usually this is because the oil they use is already very bad for you (such as palm oils) as well as the process. There are some margarines out there that are better for you that do not have trans-fats.

Despite that, making butterbeer out of margarine (maybe a sort of margarine malt or something) wouldn't be any better. I think butterbeer is probably similar to root beer (as other people have said) which, although is pretty harmless, it's not the healthiest thing for you. Butterbeer made of margarine would be like the new coke (C2) or diet coke; sure, it has reduced calories, but who wants to drink something that can remove rust off a metal car bumper?

[Red Quaffle]

Well they don't have many laws in Europe enforcing acholol levels for teens...so he is right to say that it might be dangerous.

I'm going to go out on a limb here in suggesting that you are not from Europe. Many countries compensate for the lower age limit with stricter drink driving laws. For instance, in England (and Australia), it is illegal to be intoxicated on licensed premises. In Australia the BAC level for driving is much lower than the US and anyone below 20 cannot have any alcohol at all before they drive. So if you use mouthwash before you drive, you will have to prove that to the court if you are pulled over.

But this is getting a bit off topic, isn't it! No character in the book has yet disapproved of giving Butterbeer to minors. No Lupin, not Sirius and not Mrs Weasley. It must not be dangerous.

[sere35]

I think it is kind of alcoholic. Sort of like a wine cooler.

[sere35]

Why are all of you saying JK would not do this or that. Nobody knows what she would do or not. She may introduce a alcoholcs group in Hogwarts next year. Harry is forced to go because of drunking brawling at a quidditch game.

[crumseekerlynch]

wait, i dont userstand what your saying.

[ramones]

I think that there is alcohol in butterbeer. When Dobby tells Harry that Winky gets drunk on butterbeer, Harry was shocked and said something along the lines:'But that stuff is not strong!".

Maybe butterbeer in like egg nog, it depends how you make it, if you want to put a lot or a little alcohol.

By the way, 'binge drinking' is NOT uniquely American. As a person that has lived both in Italy, and the United States, I have to say that people's drinking habits are the same in both countries. The only differences is that when I was 15, I didn't have to hide the fact that I was drinking alcohol. I could comfortably get drunk in any bar.

[SquibOnline]

I think it might be but not very strong

[The Saint]

It's got a slight bit of alchol in it. I think you'd only feel it if you drank 24 bottles or so. that's just a total guess.

[Red Quaffle]

People are saying that it is about 1 or 2% of alcohol because these people are familiar with the effects of different strengths. If it were the strength of a regular beer 5-8 %, then Winky would probably be dead after 4. Personally I think it is below 1%. In most countries, anything below 1% is legal to sell to minors and not classed as an alcoholic beverage. The greatest effect on Winky after many butterbeers was hiccoughing. To someone 10 times her weight, it would have no effect at all.

[Dagmar]

I think butterbeer is like rootbeer or cream soda.

Winky gets drunk on the sugar. Just my opinion.

[Stayce]

Doesn't Dobby tell Ron that butterbeer is able to make elf's drunk right after Ron states but you can't get drunk from butterbeer in GoF? Pretty sure that is how the conversation goes. anyway will look it up and quote it but maybe someone else remembers in the maen time.

[Lady Greyjoy]

One can only become drunk from drinking alchohol, if you have too much sugar, you tell your self you've had too much sugar you don't tell yourself you're drunk. Therefore Winky can't get "drunk" from sugar, only alcohol.

Therefore Butterbeer is slightly alchoholic, and for that reason it isn't available to students in Hogwarts (unless you're friends with Fred and George Weasly of course), but only in Hogsmeade and only to third years.

[TheMagicHat]

Butterbeer, alchoholic? Maybe a little bit. Certainly not enough to be dangerous or anything. I'm sure the Weasley Twins snag a lot between them and drink a lot of it, but we haven't heard anything about them having midair broom accidents during Quidditch games.

Plus, the Weasley twins certainly had enough to go around after the final Quidditch match in PoA and JKR made no mention of anyone getting into a drunken brawl or anything. There was certainly a great amount of partying, but I'd say that was more from the excitement of Gryffindor winning the Quidditch Cup, not the Butterbeer.

[Kirsten]

All the answers are in the books. Poor Winky gets drunk on Butterbeer, so we know Butterbeer contains alcohol. Harry and Ron both express surprise at that, and we're told that Butterbeer isn't strong. So, Butterbeer has a very low alcohol content - it's enough for a tiny house elf to get drunk on, but not a human.

For me, the most interesting thing about this thread is how it illustrates different countries' attitudes to alcohol. Many of the Americans appear horrified at the idea of JKR depicting kids drinking alcohol, and the Europeans don't see it as a problem. It's almost worthy of a thread in itself.

Someone was asking about shandy. Shandy is half beer, half lemonade, so although it has an alcohol content, it can be sold as a soft drink. Have a look at http://www.bevnet.com/reviews/fentimans/ or http://www.fentimans.com/ for more information.

[Red Quaffle]

...for that reason it isn't available to students in Hogwarts (unless you're friends with Fred and George Weasly of course), but only in Hogsmeade and only to third years.

How could you know that? I'm sure it is perfectly allowable within the school, because Hermione hasn't made a fuss about it, and she would feel uneasy about rules being broken.

[GodricHollow]

Alcohol has an effect on people, people can rolerate it more or less than others, House-Elves have less tolerance than Humans, so they get drunk easier.

[SnorkackCatcher]

Therefore Butterbeer is slightly alchoholic, and for that reason it isn't available to students in Hogwarts (unless you're friends with Fred and George Weasly of course), but only in Hogsmeade and only to third years.Well, Lupin offered it to Harry in PoA after one of the anti-DEmentor lessons, so I don't suppose it's actually banned at Hogwarts, just not available on tap. To be honest, I got the impression it was something JKR invented during the writing of that book and then reused later on, and that otherwise would have been mentioned earlier (like the word "Squib" in CoS).

I tend to agree with Kirsten - it seems to be a culture clash thing. Most Europeans don't really find it shocking, many Americans seem to.

[LouisaB]

Slight spoiler for film PoA...

I must admit that I never actually thought about the alcoholic aspect when reading the books but it did spring to my mind when watching the film PoA and the way they had changed the Hogsmeade scenes. I guess that was done for the US viewers benefit. I did wonder about it at the time. I took butterbeer to be something similar to ginger beer or shandy. But firewhiskey of course being a stronger drink.

[Wab]

Butterbeer seems to just be a low-alcohol beer. If they market a lower alcohol version they can call it I Can't Believe It's Not Butterbeer.

[SnorkackCatcher]

Butterbeer seems to just be a low-alcohol beer. If they market a lower alcohol version they can call it I Can't Believe It's Not Butterbeer. :rotfl:

[Credo Buffa]

I've been wondering if butterbeer is alcoholic too. I agree with the assessment that it might have a little alcohol in it. . . but you know, so does cough syrup. I think that would explain why the kids can drink it without having the side effects of a regular alcoholic beverage, but also why Winky could get drunk from it (obviously, her smaller physical size, paired with the sheer volume of what she consumes would have that result).

My friend was actually commenting the other day on how JKR could make millions selling the rights to butterbeer to Budweiser or the like. . . "No one would drink anything else," he said ;-)

[SarahF]

Is butterbeer alcoholic? I know it is but it seems funny that it is easy to access. I don't know if England is different or if in the wizarding world you're allowed to drink when you're as young as Harry and his friends, it just puzzles me. In GoF Winky gets rather drunk drinking butterbeer and Harry says something about it not being that strong. And also Hagrid drinks it, he has a tankard of it at his cabin. I'm just puzzled by it.

Just your thoughts, Thanks.

I always figured it was like Ginger Beer, not really being Beer per se. Winky might get drunk on it, but she's a House-Elf, not a human. Centaurs might get drunk on tomato sauce for all we know. Alcohol is a toxin to humans, but different things act in the same way for different species.

I always thought that Butterbeer was a "virgin" drink, meaning alcohol free. It's possible that they can only get it in the pup because of its name having beer in it.

Then again, I'm not sure what the alcohol laws are in England. In the States you have to be 21 to drink, but maybe it's different in Rowling's world. As someone said, maybe there is a little alcohol in it, but not enough to intoxicate anyone.

18 to buy alcohol and consume it on licensed premises

No limit for drinking on private premises

Butterbeer seems to just be a low-alcohol beer. If they market a lower alcohol version they can call it I Can't Believe It's Not Butterbeer.


Haha!

[TigressWarrior]

I've thought as butterbeer as rootbeer, only much sweeter. *dreams about rootbeer* I thought it was just overloaded on sugar, maybe even like an energy drink like Red Bull, or Jolt (I never had those, too much caffine.)

The house elf could have gotten 'drunk' on too much caffine and sugar. Even I get somewhat hyper when I drink RB, and sugar doesn't really make me hyper, only Rootbeer. *sigh*

I see no reason why J. K. Rowling would make butterbeer into an alcoholic *posion* drink.

Tigress Warrior

[tao]

You can get high from Sugar and caffein, you can´t get drunk - never, no matter how much sugar you eat. Winky obviously is drunk.

I first thought it was rather funny that butterbeer is alkoholic and that they drink it with 13 but the posts about Shandy (was it?) explain it all. In my country we don´t have so weak alkoholic drinks (I´ve never heard anyway) but in Britain they obviously exist.

[Lady Greyjoy]

Originally posted by Red Quaffle
How could you know that? I'm sure it is perfectly allowable within the school, because Hermione hasn't made a fuss about it, and she would feel uneasy about rules being broken.


Butterbeer isn't offered during school feasts like Pumpkin Juice, meaning that the school per se doesn't offer it to students.

The Staff probably doesn't consider this a rule set in stone, so to speak, and neither do the prefects. Which is shown by Lupin offering Harry some, when he was feeling down.

[TheMagicHat]

For me, the most interesting thing about this thread is how it illustrates different countries' attitudes to alcohol. Many of the Americans appear horrified at the idea of JKR depicting kids drinking alcohol, and the Europeans don't see it as a problem. It's almost worthy of a thread in itself.


I don't know how commercials about alchohol are done in Europe, but we in America are bludgeoned with commercials and info-mercials about the evils of alchohol and drunk driving. Granted there are a good deal of deaths related to drunk driving among teens. It's sad, but I don't think that should mean that alchohol and those that provide them should be demonized as a result. Thus, JKR shouldn't be looked down upon just because the kids in her stories have drinks with alchoholic content, as small as it is.

I mean, there is a reason why those commercials say "Please drink responsibly".

[Dagmar]

You can get high from Sugar and caffein, you can´t get drunk - never, no matter how much sugar you eat. Winky obviously is drunk.

I first thought it was rather funny that butterbeer is alkoholic and that they drink it with 13 but the posts about Shandy (was it?) explain it all. In my country we don´t have so weak alkoholic drinks (I´ve never heard anyway) but in Britain they obviously exist.
Well maybe people can't get drunk on sugar, but possibly house elves can.
Any way I think the best argument for it being alcoholic is that the school doesn't offer butterbeer at the feasts.

[Credo Buffa]

For me, the most interesting thing about this thread is how it illustrates different countries' attitudes to alcohol. Many of the Americans appear horrified at the idea of JKR depicting kids drinking alcohol, and the Europeans don't see it as a problem. It's almost worthy of a thread in itself.

I definitely think opinions on alcohol are cultural. In the US, alcohol is associated with wrecklessness, rule-breaking, and general bad behavior, especially among young people. We are taught from the time we are old enough to understand that alcohol is generally a bad thing: it impairs your judgement and can harm you and others. And I personally think that in a lot of cases, that is unfortunately a very fair assessment. I personally grew up in a household where no one drank at all. And now, even though I am old enough to drink in, I generally don't (and when I do, it is very little) because I've seen what it does to other people. . . people who are usually very intelligent do really stupid things. I've also worked with many people much older than myself for whom the only joy in life seems to be getting drunk on the weekends, which doesn't paint a very pretty picture of alcohol consumption in my eyes. The culture, and the government, expect you to be responsible about it when you reach a certain age, but because it's treated with such a covert air, I think a majority of college-age people and younger treat alcohol almost like a drug, and anyone older as though it is an escape from their sad and boring lives.

But in Europe, the attitudes toward alcohol are much more informal and relaxed. My roommate, from Norway, explained that it's not at all unusual for whole families to get tipsy with each other over a holiday dinner. When she came here (where she is not allowed to drink legally yet until late December), she was surprised at the social drinking culture among college students here. I think its because she has been exposed to it longer and in a more familiar setting than Americans, who at our age probably have only really had the experience of drinking in some secluded location or out at a bar. She thought it was strange at how one of my friends was explaining how awkward it was to see her parents drunk. . . But I think that in general, Europeans are more liberal about a lot of "indulgences" that Americans frown upon. In my own observations, things like smoking and swearing (especially among children, or adults around children) are also things that are considered vulgar in the US but wouldn't cause a European to flinch (my roommate, who doesn't speak the best English, knows EVERY curse in the English language and has even used some on me. . . which I had to shake off very quickly, understanding that she didn't realize that it's offensive, especially when you don't know someone very well).

I hope no one takes this to mean that I think Europeans are bad or vulgar or anything. It's just a cultural difference that takes some getting used to.

[SilverStar]

I think Butterbeer is like Root beer. It has the word beer in it but that doesn't mean you can get drunk from it.

[SarahF]

You can get high from Sugar and caffein, you can´t get drunk - never, no matter how much sugar you eat. Winky obviously is drunk.


Yes, but as has already been said: Winky is not human, and this is a fantasy book. Who says a House-Elf couldn't get "drunk" on too mucy sugar? If humans can get a buzz off it, house-elves might get even more.

I definitely think opinions on alcohol are cultural. In the US, alcohol is associated with wrecklessness, rule-breaking, and general bad behavior, especially among young people. We are taught from the time we are old enough to understand that alcohol is generally a bad thing: it impairs your judgement and can harm you and others. And I personally think that in a lot of cases, that is unfortunately a very fair assessment. I personally grew up in a household where no one drank at all. And now, even though I am old enough to drink in, I generally don't (and when I do, it is very little) because I've seen what it does to other people. . . people who are usually very intelligent do really stupid things. I've also worked with many people much older than myself for whom the only joy in life seems to be getting drunk on the weekends, which doesn't paint a very pretty picture of alcohol consumption in my eyes. The culture, and the government, expect you to be responsible about it when you reach a certain age, but because it's treated with such a covert air, I think a majority of college-age people and younger treat alcohol almost like a drug, and anyone older as though it is an escape from their sad and boring lives.

But in Europe, the attitudes toward alcohol are much more informal and relaxed. My roommate, from Norway, explained that it's not at all unusual for whole families to get tipsy with each other over a holiday dinner. When she came here (where she is not allowed to drink legally yet until late December), she was surprised at the social drinking culture among college students here. I think its because she has been exposed to it longer and in a more familiar setting than Americans, who at our age probably have only really had the experience of drinking in some secluded location or out at a bar. She thought it was strange at how one of my friends was explaining how awkward it was to see her parents drunk. . . But I think that in general, Europeans are more liberal about a lot of "indulgences" that Americans frown upon. In my own observations, things like smoking and swearing (especially among children, or adults around children) are also things that are considered vulgar in the US but wouldn't cause a European to flinch (my roommate, who doesn't speak the best English, knows EVERY curse in the English language and has even used some on me. . . which I had to shake off very quickly, understanding that she didn't realize that it's offensive, especially when you don't know someone very well).

I hope no one takes this to mean that I think Europeans are bad or vulgar or anything. It's just a cultural difference that takes some getting used to.


It's worth remembering that the UK is very, very different to the rest of Europe. We have quite tight drinking laws compared to other countries in mainland Europe, and we certainly get a lot of Drink-Driving campaigns (trying to prevent it, that is), especially around the holidays.

[Wab]

One of the strongest pointers to Butterbeer is that when they see Winky drunk Ron (I think) says that it's not that strong indicating that they recognise Winky's state as too much alocohol.

[silver ink pot]

I think butterbeer is alcoholic, but quite weak. Like a wine cooler - wine mixed with juice. When my mother was growing up in the Midwest, they sold what they called "near beer," which isn't fermented as long, and only mildly alcoholic.

There was a time in British boarding schools when beer was served as a drink every night. It was thought to be healthful, and maybe it was. Beer does have B vitamins from the Brewer's yeast in it, and considering that the food used to consist of maybe bread, potatoes, and a little meat, perhaps the children benefitted at that time. I am in no way saying that children should drink beer, just that 100 years ago, that was a custom.

In Chapter 28 of GoF, Winky is up to six butterbeers a day, and is clearly intoxicated. In OotP, Chapter 18, Dobby tells Harry he knows of the Room of Requirement where Winky found potions that were antidotes to the beer. So butterbeer must be addictive. Sometimes I wonder if maybe they need to take Trelawney there as well - she is having some alcoholic issues, I think. If she ever has to hide in Grimmauld Place, they better lock the liquor cabinet!

[Kirsten]

I don't know how commercials about alchohol are done in Europe, but we in America are bludgeoned with commercials and info-mercials about the evils of alchohol and drunk driving. Granted there are a good deal of deaths related to drunk driving among teens. It's sad, but I don't think that should mean that alchohol and those that provide them should be demonized as a result. Thus, JKR shouldn't be looked down upon just because the kids in her stories have drinks with alchoholic content, as small as it is.

I mean, there is a reason why those commercials say "Please drink responsibly".
We have very graphic anti-drink-driving campaigns. Driving having consumed alcohol is dangerous and stupid. That's not a reason to demonise alcohol.

[Romy]

I definitely think opinions on alcohol are cultural. In the US, alcohol is associated with wrecklessness, rule-breaking, and general bad behavior, especially among young people. We are taught from the time we are old enough to understand that alcohol is generally a bad thing: it impairs your judgement and can harm you and others. And I personally think that in a lot of cases, that is unfortunately a very fair assessment. I personally grew up in a household where no one drank at all. And now, even though I am old enough to drink in, I generally don't (and when I do, it is very little) because I've seen what it does to other people. . . people who are usually very intelligent do really stupid things. I've also worked with many people much older than myself for whom the only joy in life seems to be getting drunk on the weekends, which doesn't paint a very pretty picture of alcohol consumption in my eyes. The culture, and the government, expect you to be responsible about it when you reach a certain age, but because it's treated with such a covert air, I think a majority of college-age people and younger treat alcohol almost like a drug, and anyone older as though it is an escape from their sad and boring lives.

But in Europe, the attitudes toward alcohol are much more informal and relaxed. My roommate, from Norway, explained that it's not at all unusual for whole families to get tipsy with each other over a holiday dinner. When she came here (where she is not allowed to drink legally yet until late December), she was surprised at the social drinking culture among college students here. I think its because she has been exposed to it longer and in a more familiar setting than Americans, who at our age probably have only really had the experience of drinking in some secluded location or out at a bar. She thought it was strange at how one of my friends was explaining how awkward it was to see her parents drunk. . . But I think that in general, Europeans are more liberal about a lot of "indulgences" that Americans frown upon. In my own observations, things like smoking and swearing (especially among children, or adults around children) are also things that are considered vulgar in the US but wouldn't cause a European to flinch (my roommate, who doesn't speak the best English, knows EVERY curse in the English language and has even used some on me. . . which I had to shake off very quickly, understanding that she didn't realize that it's offensive, especially when you don't know someone very well).

I hope no one takes this to mean that I think Europeans are bad or vulgar or anything. It's just a cultural difference that takes some getting used to.Culture influences you more than you´d think. Once your self-control lessens a bit with alcohol, people tend to behave as they have come to believe drunk people behave. Meaning if you grow up in a culture where people believe alcohol makes you happy you might end up dancing on the table. If your culture says alcohol makes you violent you might start a fight. There is a thread on it in the Department of Magical Cooperation, actually. Perhaps it´s the same with Winky. If she believes that House-elfs can´t tolerate much alcohol she might feel drunk with very little of it.

[Romy]

I definitely think opinions on alcohol are cultural. In the US, alcohol is associated with wrecklessness, rule-breaking, and general bad behavior, especially among young people. We are taught from the time we are old enough to understand that alcohol is generally a bad thing: it impairs your judgement and can harm you and others. And I personally think that in a lot of cases, that is unfortunately a very fair assessment. I personally grew up in a household where no one drank at all. And now, even though I am old enough to drink in, I generally don't (and when I do, it is very little) because I've seen what it does to other people. . . people who are usually very intelligent do really stupid things. I've also worked with many people much older than myself for whom the only joy in life seems to be getting drunk on the weekends, which doesn't paint a very pretty picture of alcohol consumption in my eyes. The culture, and the government, expect you to be responsible about it when you reach a certain age, but because it's treated with such a covert air, I think a majority of college-age people and younger treat alcohol almost like a drug, and anyone older as though it is an escape from their sad and boring lives.

But in Europe, the attitudes toward alcohol are much more informal and relaxed. My roommate, from Norway, explained that it's not at all unusual for whole families to get tipsy with each other over a holiday dinner. When she came here (where she is not allowed to drink legally yet until late December), she was surprised at the social drinking culture among college students here. I think its because she has been exposed to it longer and in a more familiar setting than Americans, who at our age probably have only really had the experience of drinking in some secluded location or out at a bar. She thought it was strange at how one of my friends was explaining how awkward it was to see her parents drunk. . . But I think that in general, Europeans are more liberal about a lot of "indulgences" that Americans frown upon. In my own observations, things like smoking and swearing (especially among children, or adults around children) are also things that are considered vulgar in the US but wouldn't cause a European to flinch (my roommate, who doesn't speak the best English, knows EVERY curse in the English language and has even used some on me. . . which I had to shake off very quickly, understanding that she didn't realize that it's offensive, especially when you don't know someone very well).

I hope no one takes this to mean that I think Europeans are bad or vulgar or anything. It's just a cultural difference that takes some getting used to.Culture influences you more than you´d think. Once your self-control lessens a bit with alcohol, people tend to behave as they have come to believe drunk people behave. Meaning if you grow up in a culture where people believe alcohol makes you happy you might end up dancing on the table. If your culture says alcohol makes you violent you might start a fight. There is a thread on it in the Department of Magical Cooperation, actually. Perhaps it´s the same with Winky. If she believes that House-elfs can´t tolerate much alcohol she might feel drunk with very little of it.