Does Harry Take Neville for granted?

[Pansy]

OK - I did a seach on this and didn't find the exact question I have, but if it should be moved or closed, by all means...

OK, I just finised reading the fourth book, and in the end, I think Harry realizes that he has taken his friendship with Neville for granted. He realizes he never knew or asked about his parents. Moody gave Neville the "answer" to the Second Task, but Harry never thought to ask him for help, and in Dummbledore's Closing Speech, he references the "losses" that many families have endured.

Has Harry been taking Neville for granted? And what will Harry do to redeem himself in this light...

[Gandalf_the_White]

I don't think Harry took Neville for granted at all. I think when you first read of Neville you think he grew up with a rich family, never really had to do alot on his own and was generally pampered growing up. As you read through the books you begin to see him more clearly. Like trying to stop Harry, Hermione, and Ron from going to the Sorcerer's Stone. I think if anything everyone has taken him for granted. I think Neville will be an invaluable friend when it comes to the struggles Harry and his friends will face. I think everyone that shares the room with Harry will at some point play a key role or they wouldn't have been put with his

[Cat]

Yes, he's taken Neville for granted. And he knows it, and he would probably feel guilty about it. But I think it's obvious that instead of wasting time feeling sorry for Neville, he now feels akin to him. I bet Harry will never want to hear a bad word said against the poor boy ever again!

I think he was always pretty nice about Neville in the first place. He felt huffy when Professor Snape was insulting him in the Boggart class in POA. He just doesn't talk to Neville often. Newfound understanding might build some bridges that weren't there before.

Gandalf_the_White, I never thought Neville was spoiled! Wealthy kids don't go to Blackpool with Uncle Algie. Sounded more like he comes from one of the blocks of little cramped terrace houses where I live! :D

[Jessica]

I agree with Pansy that Harry does take Neville for granted or more like he just doesn't think about him at all. Not in a mean way but more like Harry is so wrapped up in everything else that he forgets about Neville unless he's right in front of him.

[jordmundt6]

I agree with Cat here. He used to take Neville for granted, but now feels a kinship with him and has a new respect for him.

[tabby]

I don' t think he takes Neville for granted. To take someone for granted they have to do more than simply exist in your vicinity. Which for the most part is all Neville does for Harry. He doens't help Harry with anything, they're not good friends, they only talk because they're in Gryffindor together. There is nothing for Harry to be taking advantage of.

[Filius Flitwick]

I don't think he takes him for granted, just because you live with somebody doesn't mean you are obligated to be friends with them. I've had a few roommates that I knew nothing about because they decided to not really associate with us. Even roommates that I considered friends didn't discuss everything. I lived with a guy for over a year before finding out he grew up on a farm.

[harp230]

I dont think it is so much that Harry takes Neville for granted either. I wouldn't exactly call him a friend of Harry's. I think that now Harry knows something about him they will become closer. Harry seems indiffrent towards Neville. Ron (and Ginny for that matter) don't seem to like him at all as evidenced by the Yule Ball. I'm not sure if Ron necessarily has a reason that hasn't really been addressed or just because of Neville's personality.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Part of the problem with Harry not really knowing anything about Neville can be blamed on the Dursleys.
When Harry was growing up the one big thing they really drummed into his head was "Don't ask questions!"
So now, when Harry needs to be seeking answers to lots of things, he just doesn't think to ask about anything.
You notice that he doesn't even ask questions about his parents that much, and he's in a place where he COULD learn a lot on his own, if only he would ask!

[harp230]

Good point. That is probally why Harry is so self-reliant. Noticing too that in GOF Harry seems rather bitter and guilty(if not angry) that he wants someone to talk about his scar hurting in the begining of the book. Harry and Neville seem to be a lot alike in their own individual tragic past and that but of them do not share their feelings for their own reasons. So far Neville apparently has not gotten close to any of the other student? I wonder if there is anyone at Hogwarts or else where that he reallly confides in....

[Loz]

I wouldn't say that Ron dislikes Neville, just that he sees him as a bit of a joke. As does Harry. They feel sorry for the feller most of the time, and don't really bother to get to know him. They don't really make friends with any of the other students, which is why, when the fought, they both felt so lonely!

I think that Neville will be very important in the coming books though.

[Weatherby]

I'm going to agree with Cat as well.
Though Harry and Hermione have shown more kindness and understanding towards Neville than others he's still seen as a joke towards the rest of the school.
I'm sure Harry will come to understand him even more in the next books. It's not as easy for Neville as it is for Harry which makes his bravery that much more touching (in my opinion).

[Pansy]

Originally posted by Barbara Kennedy (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=268798#post268798))
Part of the problem with Harry not really knowing anything about Neville can be blamed on the Dursleys.
When Harry was growing up the one big thing they really drummed into his head was "Don't ask questions!"
So now, when Harry needs to be seeking answers to lots of things, he just doesn't think to ask about anything.
You notice that he doesn't even ask questions about his parents that much, and he's in a place where he COULD learn a lot on his own, if only he would ask!


Excellent point! I guess this is what I was trying to get at. Harry really doesn't ask anything, nor does he make much effort to know Neville. I don't think Harry takes advantage of him, but now I think he may realize he hasn't been a good friend.

[flibbertigibbet]

I wouldn't call it taking Neville for granted so much as it is underappreciating him. As someone has pointed out, everyone takes Neville as a joke - they all laugh at his clumsiness, not necessarily in a mean way, but they do. And I think Harry will start to realize there's more to Neville than he originally thought, and he may prove to be an invaluable friend in the times ahead.

Oh, and Gandalf the White - did you really see Neville as a pampered rich kid? That's interesting, I never thought of him that way. I just saw him as a bit of a lonely kid who didn't have very many friends his age and spent too much time with his grandmother ;)

[MissPhoenix]

I think Neville is written so we do feel sorry for him...but beware...I think he will be the new Peter Pettigrew!!!

I sent this theory to MuggleNet...lt me know what you guys think...


Neville Longbottom is the new Peter Pettigrew:

-Neville is always nervous, scared, and anxious just like Peter. He is afraid of wizards and the Dark Side because of what happened to his parents so I feel this could enable him to betray his friends just like Pettigrew. PoA pg 374

-He looks like Peter. He seems to have beady eyes and such and Peter is even referenced to look like Neville. (PoA Pg.213 2nd para.)

-He's always humiliated and must feel like he's no good like Lupin mentioned Pettigrew not being a good wizard...refer to (PoA page 271 3rd para)

-He really wants to be Harry, Hermione, and Ron's friend, but they aren't too keen on him. (refer to PoA pg 276 6th para) He asks Hermione to the dance and even Ginny who is Ron's sister and a small part of the group so far.

-He wants to be the Trio's friend because he feels protected by them...He always asks Hermione for help in class, etc...Just like Pettigrew did with James (PoA pg 369)

I'm sure there's more, but just the fact that JKR wrote that Peter looked like Neville was enough for me.

[Barbara Kennedy]

That all might be 100% true except for what Dumbledore said. We should be judged by our choices not by what we are. [I know it isn't the direct quote, but it is the spirit if it.]

[roz]

Which might mean that he is still the new Peter Pettigrew just that we are going to get a chance to see what wormtail might have been like if he had made the right choices.

Roz.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Right Roz, we can hope Neville makes the right choices. Maybe he will, depending on what choices his friends make as well.

[Weatherby]

Originally posted by MissPhoenix (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=269232#post269232))
-He looks like Peter. He seems to have beady eyes and such and Peter is even referenced to look like Neville. (PoA Pg.213 2nd para.)



That was assumption on Harry's part.
Besides, looks are skin deep. We shouldn't judge the characters by their appearance.
Harry may have disheveled black hair like Sirius but they are not exactly the same are they?

Neville is insecure but he follows Harry and co. because he respects them. He stood up against them when he feared they'd get Gryffindor into trouble. He's a smart kid.

Peter tagged along but we don't know that he ever really liked them.

[Gandalf_the_White]

I think Neville could be like Peter, but as Dumbledore would say it is our choices that make us what we are. Harry has many similiarities with Tom Riddle, however, Harry and him are completely different because they both chose different paths. Again i think at first I did not really like Neville, but after each book he has grown to where he is one of my favorite characters. I think Neville will be a strong ally for Harry, Ron, and Hermione throughout the remaining books. I also think Dean and Seamus will play big parts at some point and i think Harry will realize he has lots of allies. Might be a little off topic, but with Neville being so good at Herbology wouldn't he have made more sense in like Hufflepuff where Professor Sprout could have influenced and helped him more

[Mike21]

Originally posted by MissPhoenix (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=269232#post269232))
I think Neville is written so we do feel sorry for him...but beware...I think he will be the new Peter Pettigrew!!!

I sent this theory to MuggleNet...lt me know what you guys think...


Neville Longbottom is the new Peter Pettigrew:

-Neville is always nervous, scared, and anxious just like Peter. He is afraid of wizards and the Dark Side because of what happened to his parents so I feel this could enable him to betray his friends just like Pettigrew. PoA pg 374

-He looks like Peter. He seems to have beady eyes and such and Peter is even referenced to look like Neville. (PoA Pg.213 2nd para.)

-He's always humiliated and must feel like he's no good like Lupin mentioned Pettigrew not being a good wizard...refer to (PoA page 271 3rd para)

-He really wants to be Harry, Hermione, and Ron's friend, but they aren't too keen on him. (refer to PoA pg 276 6th para) He asks Hermione to the dance and even Ginny who is Ron's sister and a small part of the group so far.

-He wants to be the Trio's friend because he feels protected by them...He always asks Hermione for help in class, etc...Just like Pettigrew did with James (PoA pg 369)

I'm sure there's more, but just the fact that JKR wrote that Peter looked like Neville was enough for me.


Also McGonnal is verey severe with him (GOF when he transplants his ears onto a cactass and hes told not to mention to anyone in Durmstrand that he cant perform a simple switching spell)) , McGonnal was also severe with Peter because we can assume he was very poor at transifgeration.

However Peter was actually part of the maurarders (he was the rat) unlike Neville who is excluded from Harrys group. He just hangs around with them sometimes such as the trip in the carriages to hogworts, when the dementer comes into the train (POA) Neville goes to Harry's carriage.

Neville a also asks Harry for help doing the vampire essay.

Neville though stands up to the trio in PS which i think Peter would never of done because it would risk Peter not been protected in school.

Nevill seems okay at duelling unlike Peter because in pg144 of COS he has Justin panting after he had performed a spell on him.

[Sinistra]

Neville has been a somewhat neglected character so far. We know a few things about him, and as for the clumsiness, everyone has their faults. Now we (Harry) know about the reason for some of his shyness and bad memory, Harry and Co. may include Neville in their escapades more often. And remember, Neville was in on it when the originally discovered Fluffy and the detention in the Forbidden Forest. And it was Neville who left the passwords for Sirius to find (well Crookshanks gave them to Sirius).

But Hermione may be closer to Neville than we have seen in the books. She is always helping him in potions, and with homework. And Neville and Ginny may strike up some sort of relationship--or not.

Come June 21st we may be seeing a whole new Neville.

[Cat]

Neville doesn't look like Peter Pettigrew. He is small and round like Peter, but that is all.

And I don't think your shape determines who you are inside. You need to double-check if you really think that's the kind of message given in the series. Nobody has had to follow any loop of destiny so far. What goes around doesn't always come around, and so forth. Neville Longbottom is Neville Longbottom, Peter Pettigrew is Peter Pettigrew.

Besides, I think all the connections some people make between the generations are mostly crapalicious. Things don't turn out so neat, not even in fantasy stories.

[rayrayjohanna]

I've always wondered about Neville's forgetfulness. I suspect he's had a memory charm performed on him. Also, I wondered why the first movie left out some of Neville's contributions to the story--he is aware of Norbert's departure from the tower. He is the one who serves detention with Harry, Ron and Draco in the forbidden forest, not Hermione.

Also, he likes Hermione because she is kind to him. Helps him in class, got upset on his behalf when the spiders got the crucio curse. Both Hermione and Ginny are nice girls, fairly approachable. No wonder Neville looked to them when he needed a friend to go to the dance with. And Ron could laugh all he wants at Neville asking Hermione, and then Ginny. But at least Neville had the guts to do the asking and found himself a date well ahead of the dance.

Harry will notice more about Neville in the 5th book and beyond. He is already starting to notice things, now that Moody pointed out that Neville had his task solution all along, chiding Harry for his arrogance. And Dumbledore has opened Harry's eyes to the similarity of his situation and Neville's, with losing their parents to Voldemort/Voldemort's supporters. So Neville's character is becoming more important. His abilities in Herbology have been mentioned enough times that it is now significant (Possible foreshadowing).

I've always wondered if it was a clue of some sort that Harry chose to use Neville's name when he hopped aboard the knight train? Just because it didn't materialize in that particular book (PofA). .

[supernatural]

i think nevilles will shape up to be a fairly important charactor.
i do not think he is the new pettigrew simply because he has lost his parents to voldemort, who would side with someone that killed their parents?????
i do believe that neville has a memroy charm placed on it, when reading about bertha i couldn't help but see similarities between her and neville, but at least she had the chance of school without this charm on her, and as neville said when he recieved his remembrall- he's always forgetting things.
i think harry will feel sorry for neville, he's been excluded almost from the trio, maybe what harry found out will make him feel like he should do more for neville.
harry might feel a bit like a fraud because he doesn't remebmer what happened with V, and never had to grow up surrounded by it like neville had to. if you ask me, nevilles a lot more of a hero in that respect.
well thats my rant!!!
:coolblue:

[Pansy]

Originally posted by rayrayjohanna (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=269631#post269631))

I've always wondered if it was a clue of some sort that Harry chose to use Neville's name when he hopped aboard the knight train? Just because it didn't materialize in that particular book (PofA). .


Me too! Especially after reading GOF again, my first thought was how Harry used his name on the Knight Bus. JK has a way of doing that with a character. Interesting.... :whistle:

[Buttercup]

Hmmmm is Neville becoming a ladies man? Going after Hermione and Ginny. In some respects he is WAYYYY ahead of Ron and Harry.

As far as Neville turning into a 'Pettigrew', We don't know too much about Pettigrew's past but we do know that Neville's parents were tortured by Voldimorts gang and that has a big part on Neville's outlook. I can't picture him going 'bad' because he will remember his parents.

Now I love Harry but he can be a little self focused or self centered at times. He doesn't seem to go out of his way to get to know any of the other students not just Neville. So I don't think he takes him for granted but just never bothered to reach out, which is sad on Harry's part.

[Hpmons]

you have a lot of good points rayrayjohanna!

I have thought that i was bit odd that Harry used Nevilles name, but I think that it was the first name that came to Harrys mind, and in the first three books I get the impression that Harry thinks of Neville as a bit of a nobody - not to say he doesnt like him, just that he doesnt seem to consider him important. But he will do...

About Nevilles parents - they werent killed by Voldermort; they were tortured by followers of Voldermort; so badly, that they needed to stay at St Mungos for the rest of his life. Quite a chidhood trama for Neville - he would only be about 1 or 2 at the time. For all we know he may have witnessed it.

I think Neville might have always liked Hermione, and apreciated her help, becuase he feels he will never be like that. He is a very shy character in a way. He allows himself to be bullied by Malfoy and Snape - he has his moments of bravery - he does stand up to Crabbe and Goyle once (and suffered the consequences), and he did try to prevent Harry etc. going out at night, and he did ask Hermione and Ginny to the ball; he seems to be slowly gaining his confidence. He is fully capable of being brave all the time, but he doesnt seem to attempt to much, perhaps becuase of the loss of his parents.

EDIT: On the Pettigrew thing - If you read the third book, you will notice somewhere that when Harry is imagining Black killing Pettigrew, Peter resembles Neville.

[Buttercup]

I wonder if what happened to Neville's parents is common knowledge in the wizarding world. Would Ron and his family have known about the Longbottoms and where they were?

Hpmons I like your signature......it makes me want chocolate now.

[Snowangel]

I think Harry has neglected to get to know Neville. He just never thought of asking Neville about his parents. But he's realizing that there's more to people than he had originally assumed and I think that, given the events of GoF, Neville will certainly make much more of an impression on Harry in the future.

I don't think that Neville will become another Peter Pettigrew. I think he's going to be squarely against Voldemort and I really think he'll play some important role in the future books.

[supernatural]

ahhh, got it wrong...
nevilles parents weren't killed- oops, thanks for pointing that out!!!
:o

[Barbara Kennedy]

Harry doesn't think to ask about a lot of things, it's because of his upbringing at the Dursleys' [see my previous post in this thread]. It is also the reason Harry tends to be a loner. He never had anyone to turn to, so he HAD to handle his problems alone. Ron and Hermione are helping to solve that, maybe Neville will too.

[Jessie]

I don't think that Harry's the type to take ppl 4 granted. Maybe if he did, he never realized it anyway. A lot of ppl do things without even realizing it. And yes, I agree with Barbara Kennedy; it could be due to Harry's upbringing. You don't really see Harry whining or complaining, do you? He handles his own problems, mostly. Maybe that's what also makes him brave... :??:

[Barbara Kennedy]

You have to be brave if there is no one else to turn to.

[MissPhoenix]

Cat-Whoah. Put away the claws! I was just talking about a theory and you get all huffy. I'm not saying he will turn out bad because of the way he looks exactly...Peter is, however, referenced to look like Neville. I suggest you read the page.

And there is no way in hell I think JKR is trying to talk about looks representing people in a bad way...Indeed, first impressions aren't always right, but the way a person looks does define their character in literature and in real life.

[Mad Macca]

I think before Harry found out about Neville's parents, he kind of was not horrible to him, but you know, kind of thought lesser of him, because he imagines in PoA that Neville is Pettigrew, I fat, dim witted boy. But after wards, he kind of makes an effort to talk to Neville, which is nice.

[Hpmons]

Peter is referenced to look like Neville BEFORE Harry finds out that Pettigrew was the one who killed his parents, and he sees Pettigrew as the one that is the victim.

He did seem to think less of Neville before, and now...Well I personally didnt think he made much communication with Neville after he found out - there wasnt much chance to becuase of the third task, and practicing for it. But I do think he will grow to see Neville as a friend, and if Ron ever deserts Harry again, Harry might get to know Neville a bit more, and they will probably gradually become friends.

Do you think Nevilles parents were friends of the Potters?

[Sinistra]

Maybe it's nothing, but I wonder about when Harry took the Knight Bus. Stan asked Harry what his name was, and Harry answered the first name that came to mind, Neville Longbottom. Neville Longbottom??? Why not Ron Weasley, or any of the other Weasley boys or Seamus Finnegan? Why Neville? It just seems weird that is the first name that comes to Harry's mind. Could this indicate they are more alike than we know, of am I just toooooo starved for the next book?

[Barbara Kennedy]

Perhaps Harry was searching his mind for a name he thought no one would recognize? in his panic, Neville came to mind as someone they wouldn't notice? Maybe it's a reflection of Neville being so quiet that Harry thought no one would notice him.

[black&potter]

Harry never intensionally takes anyone for granted
what Harry learned about Neville's parents when he was watching events happen in the Pensieve made him realize just how much he doesnt know about him and it also explained to Harry why Neville is the way he is Harry has more respect for Neville but he cant let him know because he promised DD he would let Neville tell him in his own time

[Barbara Kennedy]

Harry will possibly make a tad more effort to speak to Neville this year.

[Snape's Cape]

It's not just Harry who seems to take Neville for granted sometimes, all the characters seem to. But I think JKR is emphasising too strongly that Neville is nothing more than what he is. She has big plans for him, I'm pretty sure.

[fruitia pickleweed]

Two points about Neville that no one has mentioned:

1) In Book I Harry stood up for him when he was being ragged by Malfoy and retrieved his remembrall at some risk to himself. On another occasion (which book?), he told Neville, "You're worth twelve of Malfoy."

2) At the end of Book I, the only reason Gryffindor won the house cup was the five extra points awarded by Dumbledore to Neville. Dumbledore commented that it takes courage to stand up to our enemies but even more to stand up to our friends. This is true and quite important.

Yes, Neville is forgetful; he is a bit "tone deaf" socially; Harry hasn't made a best friend of him and does not think of him as a specially valuable ally; but I expect Neville to show courage and integrity in still greater trials than he has met with to date.

[Girl]

I'm sure that in the future books Neville and Harry will grow closer as friends. One reason is because of what Harry knows about Neville's parents. Harry and Neville have something incommon in that they both lost their parents because of Voldermort when they were young.
I don't think that Harry takes Neville forgranted, he is just not as good friends with him like he is with Ron and Herimone. Like most people Harry has his close friends who he shares everything with and his friends who he hangs out with. I'm sure that when Neville decides to open up about his parents Harry and him will find that they have something incommon.

[Nys]

I'm sure that in the future books Neville and Harry will grow closer as friends. One reason is because of what Harry knows about Neville's parents. Harry and Neville have something incommon in that they both lost their parents because of Voldermort when they were young.
I don't think that Harry takes Neville forgranted, he is just not as good friends with him like he is with Ron and Herimone. Like most people Harry has his close friends who he shares everything with and his friends who he hangs out with. I'm sure that when Neville decides to open up about his parents Harry and him will find that they have something incommon.

I agree, Harry doesn't take Neville for granted. He's simply not best friends with him. Harry's had a certain respect for Neville particully since he found out about his parents but even before then when he stook up to Harry Rom and Herimone.

[Discordia]

Neville and Harry are linked together now. They both lost there parents, they are both connected with the prophecy, and they've never really had an easy life. When I first saw Neville, I always saw him as clumsy, forgetfull, not too bright. Your typical Charlie Brown. Harry never did take the time to get to know Neville even after he found out about Neville's paretns. I don't think that anyone did. I just thought it was wierd how proud Neville's grandmaother seemed at the hospital when she told Harry about the Longbottoms. She was so causlay about it. How many people can jsut stand there and proclaim, My children were tortured into insanity by DE's."? THe way she handled it all was just a little odd. I think that she's a really tough old bird and she's kind of had to be that wa for Neville and not fall to pieces over it, but still the way she handled it all. Wasn't anyone slightly alarmed by the ay she went about it?

[Spirit]

I agree with Pansy that Harry does take Neville for granted or more like he just doesn't think about him at all. Not in a mean way but more like Harry is so wrapped up in everything else that he forgets about Neville unless he's right in front of him.

I agree with you. Harry gets too wraped up in what's happening to him, mostly, and he usually forgets about other people.

Neville and Harry are linked together now. They both lost there parents, they are both connected with the prophecy, and they've never really had an easy life. When I first saw Neville, I always saw him as clumsy, forgetfull, not too bright. Your typical Charlie Brown. Harry never did take the time to get to know Neville even after he found out about Neville's paretns. I don't think that anyone did. I just thought it was wierd how proud Neville's grandmaother seemed at the hospital when she told Harry about the Longbottoms. She was so causlay about it. How many people can jsut stand there and proclaim, My children were tortured into insanity by DE's."? THe way she handled it all was just a little odd. I think that she's a really tough old bird and she's kind of had to be that wa for Neville and not fall to pieces over it, but still the way she handled it all. Wasn't anyone slightly alarmed by the ay she went about it?

The way Neville's grandmother handled it was odd. It made me wonder.... She was too casual about it, I think.

[Discordia]

The way Neville's grandmother handled it was odd. It made me wonder.... She was too casual about it, I think.

Yeah, bc when I read that part, that's what alarmed me the most. The way she went about it. How many people can just stand there and say that my chidren were tortured into insanirty byt Voldemort's DE's. It just seemed like she was trying to be a little too strong or that something else is up bc that scene was just soo.....i mean it was just the way she went about it you know?

[lorna]

I'm going to stand up for Harry on this one. I don't think he takes Neville for granted. Their just not the buds Harry is with Ron and Hermoine.
Taking a friend for granted, sadly, is kind of what James and Sirius did
back in the pensieve. Pettigrew was really treated not a whole lot better than Snape by these guys. Which built no real strong feelings of loyalty in Peter. So LV comes along with a better offer.........
Harry, OTOH, has never treated Neville anything like that. He doesn't expect Neville to do things for him or to be his adoring audience (that expectation was certainly present in James re: Pettigrew. ) he's notblabbed about what he knows about the Longbottoms even to his two closest friends. Harry has respected Neville's privacy.
And Neville, unlike Peter, stood up to his friends when he thought they were in they were in the wrong.
And I agree, Barbara. Harry was not raised to ask questions so I suspect on a day to day basis it just doesn't occur to him