How did Dumbledore know that Voldemort had found the Potters?

[Filius Flitwick]

It's been a while since I've read it, but something has always bothered me. Hagrid was supposedly the one that found Harry at the beginning of the book yet Hagrid already had instructions from Dumbledore to bring Harry to the Dursley's. Obviously, Sirius was the first one there and allowed Hagrid to use his motorcycle(makes you wonder where Arthur Weasley was when a magic motorcycle slipped through his net), but why did Hagrid show up? Did Dumbledore somehow sense something had happened? Was he at the house that night after it had happened? Did he know beforehand? Will that night be addressed further in future books?

This may have already been addressed, if so, then I'm sorry.

[luv_HP]

Good thought to ponder. I'm not really sure, but I think Dumbledore's that kind of person where he knew something dangerous was about to happen. I'm unsure about Hagrid though... Hopefully someone else will post thoughts on it as well, I'm curious. (Good point about Mr. Weasley...where was he?) :)

[Hpmons]

Dumbledore did know that Voldermort was after the Potters, so he would have kept a very close eye on the house. He probably knew hardly an hour after they were killed, and sent Hagrid there stright away to rescue Harry.

[Shoujo Kitsune]

DD must have known because he knows all....but I do think that the night will be addressed...but it gives me a thought *runs off to search*

[supernatural]

dumbledore knew that voldemort was after the potters and was probably keeping an eye on them. i agree that this night will probably be addressed in further detail.
as for the flying motorbike- what a cool thing to have- but possibly keeping such things under wraps wasn't the highest priority of the ministry at that time- i imagine the minstry must have been absolute chaos at that time.

[Shoujo Kitsune]

Sirius showed up right after, in order to give Hagrid the cool motorbike (sorry Arthur...) And Dumbledore had kept watch over the people he wanted to protect....

[Aldawen]

As stated previously, Dumbledore is the kind of guy who knows these things, and he was probably keeping a close watch on the house. But wait, I have a crazy idea! We know that Sirius was the first person to arrive at the house. Perhaps he alerted Dumbledore! He might have sent an anonymous note or something. That probably doesn't make much sense at all, but hey, I tried. I also think that Lily and James lived someplace secluded, away from many muggles.

[Filius Flitwick]

The series of events has always confused me. Sirius was the first to arrive, yet Hagrid met him at almost the same time and already had instructions from Dumbledore. Dumbledore had to be suspicious of Sirius considering he probably knew that Sirius was Harry's godfather yet he wouldn't let Sirius take Harry with him.

[remo]

It is strange. This happened Halloween night, so school would have been in session. DD, Hagrid and the other professors all should have been at Hogwarts. Now Hagrid isn't supposed to do magic. i really doubt he can apparate. Yet Hagrid got there before any of the MoM wizards did. So there must have been a reason Hagrid was nearby. I hope we find out in book 5 becuase who knows how long it will take for book 6. (Yes I'm already dreading the next wait)

[Alastor D]

That Hagrid was there on Dd's orders is obvious. He had told McGonagall that Dd would be at Privet Drive. And he was at the Potters' house before Sirius arrived ( see PoA ch. 10)

How Dd could know is a good question. And how come the MoM also always knows immediately when Dobby crashes a cake or Harry blows up his aunt. I am afraid we will never find out more than that it's just magic.

[Isaiah]

Maybe Hagrid didn't go directly to Privet Drive, maybe he took Harry away for safekeeping for a few hours while DD made arrangements for Harry to stay. Come to think of it, why would McGonnagal be waiting there all day as a cat if it had just happened immediately before Hagrid brought Harry. No, I think Hagrid had to be holding on to Harry while DD got all the protective magic stuff arranged.

[Magpie]

Maybe school was out of session because Voldemort had gotten so powerful? I don't know, maybe!

[DarlingChild]

Originally posted by Isaiah (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=272323#post272323))
Maybe Hagrid didn't go directly to Privet Drive, maybe he took Harry away for safekeeping for a few hours while DD made arrangements for Harry to stay. Come to think of it, why would McGonnagal be waiting there all day as a cat if it had just happened immediately before Hagrid brought Harry. No, I think Hagrid had to be holding on to Harry while DD got all the protective magic stuff arranged.


Oh, I so agree with this! Of all the posts in this thread this one makes the most sense to me ;)

It's all making sense now. Hagrid was first to arrive, maybe he was sent to give a message or something, and found Harry. Having no way to transport himself and Harry, he waited a while, Sirius showed up and lent him the motorcycle. Hagrid took him somewhere for a while (most likely his hut) so that Dumbledore could get things squared away and decide what to do with Harry.

Wonderful post, Isaiah! It completely answered my ponderings about this matter! :)

[rotsiepots]

I always assumed Hagrid was in Godric's Hollow on Dumbledore's behalf which is why he got to the scene of destruction so quickly. Dumbledore would have stationed spies and the like around Godric's Hollow to keep him well informed of the events happening there and to ensure that the Potters were safe.

I suppose this explains, in part, Hagrid's speedy arrival.

As for the missing 24-hours (ie from the time Hagrid picked Harry up) to the time he dropped him off at the Durselys, that is currently being discussed in a thread entitled The time beween Godric's Hollow and the Dursley's (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6837). Please keep all discussion pertaining to this missing day to that thread.

Thanks! :)

[jordmundt6]

Okay there's something really screwey about this whole time line. Voldemort got his information from Wormtail and attacked the Potters on Halloween. He attacked them at night. McGonagall: "They're saying that last night, he turned up in Godric's Hollow..."

The murders happened at night.

Sirius was the first one to get to the scene, but he did so at the end of the following day (unless his motorcycle is only as fast as a normal motorcycle which I doubt). So Hagrid and Sirius both got to the smoldering ruin at almost exactly the same time and both went for Harry. Hagrid found him first, and wouldn't give him up.

IMPORTANT: Whatever happened during the confrontation between Harry and Voldemort nearly totaled the Potters' house which means something VERY different from Avada Kedavra was unleashed. (Avada Kedavra leaves no mark on victims and, as far as anyone knows, cannot be deflected by anything, so it would not have left a mark on the surrounding furniture if it had, say, missed.)

NOW COMES THE REALLY CONFUSING PART

[DarlingChild]

Sorry rotsie -- the subjects are just so close together that there is bound to be some discission of the time inbetween, to help figure out the topic at hand. ;)

[dumbleedore]

If someone mentioned this, I apologize, but when I get a thought I tend to skip...

This is what I think happened...

Sirius knew something was wrong when he saw that Peter had vanished. The first thing he did was go to the Potters. When he got there, Hagrid was taking Harry out of the wreckage of the house. An argument ensured between the two but Sirius resigned himself to the fact that because Dumbledore had sent Hagrid, something had to be up. He gave Hagrid his motorbike and went to go find Peter to find out what happened, even though he already suspected what had happened. He found Peter before the duel and the truth was confirmed. And we know what happened from there.

So how did Hagrid know to get to the Potter's?

Dumbledore seems to have a sixth sense. I think he knew something was about to happen and he sent Hagrid to get Harry, to keep him safe. But when Hagrid got there, Lily and James had already been killed and Hagrid still had to take Harry to the Dursley's, as per Dumbledores instructions. And Sirius shows up.

That's my view anyway!

[Emma]

I thought that there was some mention somewhere that there was a time span of a few days after the murders and the time that Harry was brought to the Dursleys. Didn't Harry spend some time at "The Leaky Cauldron"? I seem to remember this. I don't remember which book that this was in though.

[Alastor D]

Well, Emma, there is nothing in PS nor in PoA suggesting the time span was more than one day. (Or not as far as I can remember)
It was in GoF Harry spent a couple weeks at The Leaky Cauldron. He blew up his aunt, left Privet Drive, went to London with the knight bus and Fudge told him to stay at the Cauldron until school start.

[Gandalf_the_White]

maybe Professor Trelwany(sp?) first prophesy was the death of the Potters and immediatly Dumbledore sent Hagrid knowing a real prediction had just occurred

[Filius Flitwick]

Oooh, that's a good one. Dumbledore did saw that she had one accurate prediction before...I totally forgot about that.

[Shoujo Kitsune]

But how much did she predict, if that is the case? Did she tell Dumbledore not to give Harry to Sirius? and in how much time did she predict this? enough to ddispatch his people, and do the magic it took to protect the house?

[Gandalf_the_White]

Well i don't really know, this is very unlikely. But let's say he was talking with her and she went in a trance and said tonite the Dark Lord shall try to kill again but will be beaten by a young child and he shall be greatly weakened. There might be more families than the Potters who are in hiding with a child, let's say he suspects the Potters though. In the book, James says, run Lily i will try to hold him off, what if Dumbledore told them Voldemort was coming but couldn't apparate at the Potter's area because it is protected like Hogwarts, so he immediatly sends Hagrid, believing Sirius to be the secret keeper, makes it very clear to Hagrid he must return the child to Dumbledore and absolutely no one else.

[Shoujo Kitsune]

But Hagrid did not know until after he delivered Harry, he said so In the Three Broomsticks when he talks about how shocked he was at having seen him there that night...so Dumbledore could not have told Hagrid...

[Gandalf_the_White]

that is a good point, i never said this was a good idea haha. But even if he was suprised by him showing up, he still would listen to Dumbledore over Sirius and if Dumbledore said no one but himself, Hagrid wouldn't have given the kid to anyone but Dumbledore, Dumbledore may not have been exact in his instructions other than to deliver Harry

[zoeydsngwrtr]

I think that DD had people watching the house, so they saw the Green, and knew that something bad had happened, either that, or he had some type of magical spy camera. Hagrid probably got there to watch the baby a little later, it probably took a bit for DD to know that indeed something had happened, maybe an hour or two, and he sent Hagrid to get the baby, by then I am sure that Syrus knew something was wrong, and went looking to make sure that the Potters were ok, and from there, everyone knew. Meanwhile Hagrid had the baby, and so on. It probably took atleast a few hours for the picking up of Harry to happen.

[DarlingChild]

I like the Trewlany prediction idea, that's a good one :yup:

[zoeydsngwrtr]

Somebody just brought up a good point in a different thread, Lily and James didn't live at Godric's Hollow, and nobody was supposed to know where they were except for (o darn I can't remember his name, the dude who betrayed Lily and James and brought back Voldy). So if DD was not to know where they were, only who the secret keeper was, how did he know so quickly that they died??? This is the question of the thread, but most people have forgotten, nobody knew lily and James were at Godrics hollow until Voldy got them.

[dorcasderr]

How did Dumbledore know? Ah...there must have been a disturbance in the Force... Actually, another thought I had relates to another thread currently being discussed, that is about a Wizard Internet. JKR says the wizards have something comparable, but more fun. Dumbledore probably did have people keeping an eye on the Potters in Godric's Hollow. When they saw what had happened they probably sent a quick e-mail wizard-style to Dumbledore, who sent Hagrid in some quick magical way to Godric's Hollow where he encountered Sirius, who arrived, as has been suggested because of Peter's disappearance.

[DarlingChild]

Again the answer -- Professor Trewlaney's first prediction! :yup:

[zoeydsngwrtr]

Ok, I will admit at first that I didn't think that was it, but now, I think you are exactally right....god detective work.

[DarlingChild]

Actually, someone mentioned it before. It makes perfect sense. This thread is really making me think! :)

[zoeydsngwrtr]

Ok, so we know how Hagrid knew, Dumbledore sent him, and Dubledoor knew because of the prediction, but how did syrus know so fast??? I think it says why in the book, but I can't remember it.

[Shoujo Kitsune]

Well, he knew they had switched and I woud suppose that given the green light and all, that it woul dbe hard to hide, so maybe he saw it happen (or right after, because he would have tried to stop if he watched it)

[DarlingChild]

I can't remember either. Maybe he got wind of Trewlaney's prediction? Or perhaps he didn't show up until the 'police wizards' were there, cleaning up the mess. He could have heard about it on the wizards internet or something. Is there anywhere that says that Sirius showed up exactly after it happened, right after Hagrid? Because that is what I have always assumed, but it could be wrong. Hmm.

[HP_WizKid]

Someone posted saying that avada kedavra means destroy this thing-so if avada kedavra leaves no mark on people then why does it say destroy,yes it may just mean destroy /kill but it could also mean that it was originally to desroy objects but Vol used it on people so it detroyed objects/furniture not people.
okay bye!

[Barbara Kennedy]

This is discussed already in "The Time Between Godric's Hollow and the Dursleys"

[Gandalf_the_White]

Sirius was supposed to meet Peter, Peter didn't show so he knew something was very wrong. my question is how did he know where the Potters were if only Peter knew, or maybe people who are friends can still see the Potters

[JofpGallagher]

I really like the Trewlaney's theory too. ALways wonder what's the fisrt correct prediction she made.
Maybe she, in trance, and in front of DD predict Harry's parents dead, and she told DD something like "There is not time for you to change or save them, but the baby will not be killed"...Then, DD immediately thought and sent Hagrids with the mission"You are the only man I can trust right now for this important mission, you have few time. Go raight now to the Potter's, take Harry and meet me in Privet's Drive with the baby tomorrow night. Ahhh Hagrid, what you are going to see is going to be painful since I must prevent you that you will see the Potters already death by Voldemort's last act. There is not time for explanation. Harry's life is on your hands, and you must anly give him to me." (That would explained why Hagrid didn't give Harry to Sirius since Hagrid's is only 100% loyal to DD..."such a great man, Prof. Dumbledore"
Only 64 days...can't wait anymore
:banghead:

[atherella]

OK, this has been touched upon in other threads, but, hopefully the moderators will deem it worthy of a thread of its own.

Before I start, let me say I *love* Dumbledore's character..

As we know, the Potters had the Fidelus Charm either placed upon themselves, or upon the house in Godric's Holow to protect them from LV. We also know that LV killed both James and Lily, Harry lived, and that the house was destroyed. There is much debate as to whether or not after the Potters were killed, if the Fidelus Charm was broken, since we knew that the house was visible. We also know that both Sirius and Hagrid both showed up in Godrics Hollow. The question of why Sirius was there is being debated in a different thread. (See Did Sirius tell the truth? (http://www.cosforums.com/showthread.php?t=32314) for more discussion on that topic). My question is this... how did Dumbledore know so quickly what had happened to the Potters and manage to get Hagrid there so quickly to claim Harry?

Now, I am NOT suggesting that DD is evil, not by any means. I am more interested in discussing how it is DD came to know what had happened. Of course, he could possibly have had the house watched, yet we don't know for sure that DD even knew where they were staying. The Potters didn't choose DD to be their secret keeper, and we have no evidence that anyone told him where the Potters were staying. That doesn't mean that he didn't know where they were, of course, but we have no definite proof one way or another. What we do know is that shortly after the Potters were murdered, Hagrid got there to claim Harry before he was taken away by Sirius, or even members of the MoM, which suggests that Hagrid arrived there pretty quickly. So, not only did DD know that the Potters were dead, he also knew that Harry was alive. This could be from DD's knowledge of the prophesy, but how did DD know what happened so immediately after it happened? If he had people watching the house beforehand, that makes no sense at all, as they were protected from the Fidelus Charm and no one would see them or the house without Pettigrew having told them. Since Pettigrew was the traitor, I doubt he'd tell DD and his people the location in order to help the Potters. IF there was a portrait in the house where the Potters were, is it possible that it would have survived the house exploding and gone to a different portrait located in DD's office?

Any thoughts or ideas anyone? I hope this accurately portrayed what I am trying to get across. :)

[itastethefire]

Hmm...I see what you mean, and a very good question it is. I think there are a few possibilities:

One, do remember that Sirius was secret keeper for an indeterminate amount of time before he transferred it to Peter. There is a good chance that Sirius let DD and friends in on the secret, and their ability to see the house may have transferred over when he gave the power to Peter.

Secondly, it might just be Dumbledore being Dumbledore. He can see literally nearly everything going on inside his own house, and he is probably one of the greatest wizards of all time. He can do things that other wizards only dream of. Maybe knowing that this happened was just one of his things...

[I am S Black]

atherella - I wonder if your question will ever be answered in the books, but I'd have to say that DD has the capabilities of keeping a close watch on people, plus he's the one who performed the charm, so he might've added a sort of alarm if it were broken. I'm sure whatever the answer might be, it'll probably be trivial.

[MagicMuggle]

My question is this... how did Dumbledore know so quickly what had happened to the Potters and manage to get Hagrid there so quickly to claim Harry?

IF there was a portrait in the house where the Potters were, is it possible that it would have survived the house exploding and gone to a different portrait located in DD's office?

Any thoughts or ideas anyone? I hope this accurately portrayed what I am trying to get across. :)

Well, as for your first question... Maybe think Snape notified Dumbledore on what Lord Voldemort had done because by that time, Snape had changed sides. By the time he got Hagrid there, he was ready to take Harry.

Or...

If your the caster of the Fedalius Charm, wouldn't you know, or feel it being broken? Would you have some kind of a connection? Thats howI think Dumbledore knew.

As for your second question...If the Potters survived, why aren't they contacting Harry? Why did Harry hear their last reamining moments when he met the Dementors? Why did he see their shadows coming out of Voldemorts wand when he returned? Besides, I don't think people can travel through portraits. It doesn't seem likley. If you are talking about a picture of the Potters, it would have been destroyed in the blast. If it went to another portrait...Why didn't they contact Harry? Why doesn't Dumbledore show Harry? It leads to a lot of 'why' questions...

Those are my thoughts! :)

[bethp]

Its possible Snape as a spy could have let DD know that LV found out where the Potter's were and DD was just too late...another possiblitity is that Lily could have warned DD? If DD has a quick and reliable means of communication couldn't Lily have used it in the time that she had running to protect Harry? Whether it was a portrait or magic mirror etc....could she have called for help?

[grrliz]

Dumbledore seems to know everythting. He has a lot of power we don't know about, since he's very good at keeping things hidden. I think I'm just going to work out some of my thoughts by reviewing some things here.

1) Peter Pettigrew was the Secret-Keeper. We know this for a fact. Dumbledore didn't know about the switch from Sirius to Peter, so it's not like he could have asked Peter to spill his guts. So Peter couldn't have told Dumbledore.

2) Sirius says he went to check on Peter on the night the Potters died but didn't find him in his hiding place. So he immediately went to Godric's Hollow to see if the Potters were alright (PoA, p 168, Canadian edition).

3) Regardless of whether or not Pettigrew told the Secret to anyone, if you knew where the Potters lived, you could still find their house. The Fidelius Charm doesn't hide Godric's Hollow from anyone, it simply hides the fact that Lily and James were there. Flitwick says "You-Know-Who could search the village where Lily and James were staying for years and never find them, not even if he had his nose pressed against their sitting-room window!" (PoA, p 152, Canadian edition).

4) Sirius, being James best friend and having seen Pettigrew's empty hiding place, sensed something was wrong and went to Godric's Hollow. He expected the worst, so he probably alerted Dumbledore (who in turn alerted Hagrid) to get to Godric's Hollow as quickly as possible.

So I think it's largely due to Sirius' sixth sense about James and Lily that Dumbledore found out so quickly, but I'd like to think that Dumbledore's own powers have something to do with it. There have been other occasions in the books were Dumbledore seems to show up at just the right moments, not unlike that night at Godric's Hollow.

[starlette01350]

Maybe there were portraits in their house that Dumbledore used to keep in touch with them? 12 Grimmauld Place has the portrait of Nigellus, so maybe the Potter's house had a portrait in their house that matched one in DD's office or house. Then, the portrait could be used to relay messages or for surveillance. Just a thought!

I agree with grrilz. Sirius was probably worried about the Potters and checked to make sure that Wormtail was ok. When Peter was missing, he must have assumed the worst and run off to Godric's Hollow. Maybe the Order has a special way of communicating, like the DE's or DA? When he realized that Peter was gone, he could have alerted DD, Hagrid, and everyone else.

[peddlerofdeath]

...As for your second question...If the Potters survived, why aren't they contacting Harry? Why did Harry hear their last reamining moments when he met the Dementors? Why did he see their shadows coming out of Voldemorts wand when he returned? Besides, I don't think people can travel through portraits. It doesn't seem likley. If you are talking about a picture of the Potters, it would have been destroyed in the blast. If it went to another portrait...Why didn't they contact Harry? Why doesn't Dumbledore show Harry? It leads to a lot of 'why' questions...

Who say the portrait has to be of the Potters? The portrait could've been of one of the former headmasters and headmistresses who have portraits hanging on the wall in DD's office. The portrait in question could've ran and told DD the second Voldemort entered the house. Thats why DD knew so quickly.

DD probably knew that Harry would survive because of the prophecy, specifically the passage about LV marking him as his equal. DD probably had the Longbottoms watched with a portrait around this time as well.

[winter snow]

Good qustion! I have to agree that there could have been some communicating between portraits. Or, is Dumbledore a seer? He has alot of powers that we're not aware of yet. On hp-lexicon, it states when he sat for his (OWLS or NEWTS I don't remember which) his professor saw Dumbedore do things with a wand that she had never see before. From that we can deduce that he's quite a powerful wizard. Is it too much of a leap of faith to imagine that he "felt or saw" the danger the Potters were in? Does this make sense? Any one?

[aggiefan1206]

Well since dumbledore knew the prophesey he knew at one point someone would most likely have been attacked. He most likely had someone else watching over the potters. He has people that watch Harry closely he most likely had someone in the area that could see things happening at the potters and contacted Dumbldore. THe thing with dumbledore is he is a very smart wise person and im sure that he could find out whats going on. THere is a possibility that mabe snape told dumbledore but im really unclear on that it depends on when snape decided to turn sides. I still think thats up for debate though. Im sure that once people saw things going on at the potters someone contacted him immidiatly do we know how many other wizards were around them at the time? DUmbldore has ways of finding things out mabe sirius contacted him.

[Kethaer]

Fawkes. Think about it, he went on the watch for Umbridge on DD's orders the night Harry saw Arthur's attack, and sent a warning when something happened. Perhaps DD sent Fawkes to Godric's Hollow, as well? I dare say DD's used him many times before, and Fawkes still is a very misterious creature... That's my thought, anyway. *shrug*

[aggiefan1206]

Actually he was most likely at hogwarts at the time because they are in school halloween. I still think voldemort had someone else know where the potters were and when the y spotted trouble went to get dumbledore

The Fawkes thing is a pretty good possibility as well

[Stayce]

I am seeing some point's after reading the first post to this thread. If DD knew the prophecy and knew that Harry and Neville would be targets why did he not then have the houses being watched? And why was he not the secret keeper for the Potter's since he is the one wizard VM feared the most? He was the leader of the OotP and therefore the most trustworthy of the group. It is my idea the DD knew that the prophecy must come true that VM had to "mark" the child as his equal. I think that there have been several times DD could have known VM was close and attacked him but knew that it would ultimately been Harry that would actually kill him. I think that part of the stress and aprehension that DD is showing is because he knows that he could save lives but thta he must also allow the prphecy to play out. I think he was watching and knew that the Potter's were being attacked and that was why he was there.

The fact that Sirius was sent to Azkaban in this theory of mine shows the point. If DD was watching the Potter house he would have known it was PP that betrayed the Potter's and that Sirius was innocent BUT if he told the MOM that he would blow his own place in the OotP, his intelligence information, and would not have been able to get Harry to the Dursley's which has ultimately been Harry's protection since as long if he lives in a house where his mother's blood lives he is safe there. So Sirius was a sacrafice on the part of DD and probably would have choosen that for Harry too if he knew what DD did. I mean the first thing DD did was send Hagrid away with Harry to the Dursley's even before he knew VM was so weak and no longer a threat then.

[The_5th_Marauder]

Fawks the Phoenix is all I have to say. Why do you think it is called the Order of the Phoenix. Dumbledore uses Fawks for everything. Fawks is constantly spying on people. See how quickly he can travel? He can probably stay pretty silent/invisible if need be. Not to mention Dumbledore undoubtedly has many many contacts. I bet there were people living very close to the Potter's house and either it was Fawks or an Owl that told Dumbledore.

[peddlerofdeath]

How would DD use Fawks? Before LV attacked the Potters DD had no way of telling weather Harry or Neville would be attacked so he had to protect both of them. Since Fawks is a single entity and coldn't watch both houses it would be impractical for DD to use Fawks b/c that would leave one house ungaurded.

[grrliz]

Maybe Fawkes was using a time turner to be in two places at once. :eyebrows: I am so kidding...

[vanew_me]

I am seeing some point's after reading the first post to this thread. If DD knew the prophecy and knew that Harry and Neville would be targets why did he not then have the houses being watched? And why was he not the secret keeper for the Potter's since he is the one wizard VM feared the most? He was the leader of the OotP and therefore the most trustworthy of the group. It is my idea the DD knew that the prophecy must come true that VM had to "mark" the child as his equal. I think that there have been several times DD could have known VM was close and attacked him but knew that it would ultimately been Harry that would actually kill him. I think that part of the stress and aprehension that DD is showing is because he knows that he could save lives but thta he must also allow the prphecy to play out. I think he was watching and knew that the Potter's were being attacked and that was why he was there.

Stayce, I think you are right. I've always wondered why DD took so many cautions around the Potters and (as far as we know) did next to nothing to protect the Longbottoms in the same way. However those safety meassures were not enough because in the end Voldemort found Godric's Hollow and... well you know the rest. I'm sure that DD wanted the Profecy to become true because, even though he is the only wizard Voldemort always feared, he won't be around forever; and at those times when it seemed that the Dark Lord was going to take over the wizarding world, DD realized that even with all of his powers he would never be able to defeat Voldemort, since only the boy from the Profecy can. I gues what I'm trying to say is that DD didn't mean for the James and Lily to die or for Neville's parents to lose their minds, but he needed want to know who the boy was, out of the possible two candidates.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that DD is a bad person for thinking like that, or that he takes advantage of others suffering, he simply didn't thought it through. Because DD had no idea of who the boy was or how Voldemort was going to mark him as his equal, his hands were bound. So, before I start rambling, I guess my point is that DD could have stopped Voldemort from killing James and Lily, but didn't. If you ask how, it's simple: when Snape told him that Voldemort knew where the Potters were hiding and that he was on his way it must have given DD enough time to alert the Potters, or even give them time to run away by facing Voldemort himself. Even a couple of Dark Detectors installed in Godric's Hollow could have done the trick. It all comes down to admitting that DD was willing to do anything to stop Voldemort... until he met Harry. Now, he would have to think it twice.

[MuggleWitchGirl]

a portrait could have warn Dumbledore that the house is beeing attacked,but how much time had passed since Voldemort got into the house,duelled with James and killed him,went upstairs and killed Lily and tried to kill Harry till Dumbledore got his warning??wasn't there enough time to come and help the potters?it is also the same case if fawkes was the one who allerted Dumbledore by sending him one of his feathers.
there is also Dumbledore chocolate frog card that he use to spy on others,supposely off course there was choclate frog cards at that time .

[Arithmancy]

I got an idea.

We do not know how exactly Dumbledore watches over Harry and possibly others, but somehow he does.

Once Potters performed the Fidelius Charm, I guess Dumbledore could not watch them anymore. Why? Because (I guess) to be able to see people or places protected by Fidelius you have to be told by a Secret Keeper. (Just like 12 GP was completely hidden to muggles at all times and even to Order members once they leave the door. Even if you are told the 12GP location and secret, you still have to say "12 Grimmauld Place" in your mind for house to appear.)
Since Dumbledore did not know Peter was a SK, he obviously had not been told.

So if Fidelius Charm was broken the moment Potters died/house blew up/Voldemort vaporized, then Dumbledore all of a sudden would be able to see (through whatever means) Godric Hollow. And that is how he knew, that is why he sent Hagrid there immediately.

I kind of like it better because this way Dumbledore is exonerated of indirectly "setting up" the Potters for the sake of Prophesy.

[Libertine]

it is quite mysterious,which of course completely suits dumbledore's character..

the idea that once the fidelius charm was broken, dumbledore as the charmer would know or feel it seems right to me. and we don't know that he didn't also protect the longbottoms with a charm too. it isn't mentioned. maybe dumbledore already arranged with hagrid to go to whatever house was trespassed upon by voldemort. and i guess he knew the baby (harry or neville, he didn't know yet) would be alive, because he'd have to live out the prophecy.

[Elf]

This is an idea I proposed in another thread and I think it fits here as well. Bear with me because the connection to Dumbledore isn’t until the end of my post, but I do believe this is all intertwined…

Judging by the fact that Lily did not try to escape with Harry, but rather stayed to face Voldemort, I think she had decided long beforehand that she was going to sacrifice herself for her son. I think Lily knew about the ancient magic that would allow her to sacrifice herself for Harry, therby giving him her blood protection. It seems likely to me that she may have set up the situation ahead of time, knowing the inevitable was going to happen.

I don't think James knew she was planning to do this however. James yells to Lily: "Lily, take Harry and go! It's Him! Go! Run! I'll hold him off--" Why would James tell Lily to attempt to escape if he knew she was going to sacrifice herself for Harry? He was trying to buy Lily and Harry time, therefore we know he thought that his wife would at least try to flee with Harry.

Lily probably knew that James would try to dissuade her, even prevent her from doing this, thinking there was a better way and didn't tell him what she had made up her mind to do. James may have disagreed with her. He may of tried to convince her that it was better for them to fight Voldemort instead. We know from Snape's memory in the penseive that James was very proactive when it came to hexing people. His instinct would be to fight. I merely think that Lily knew there was a better way and very privately resolved to see it through. Telling James might have made her question her decision or lose her nerve. It would tear a person apart to not share a decision like this with their spouse, but in her position, I think I might do the same. She may have felt she was sparing James the agony of knowing he was going to lose his wife, assuming there was ever a possibility he could have survived.

I also have a strong feeling that Dumbledore knew Lily was going to sacrifice herself for Harry. Perhaps it was even he who told Lily about the ancient magic she could invoke to protect her son. Part of the reason I think Dumbledore knew this in advance is that no one could have possible known (besides Voldemort and Harry later on when he hears his mom screaming while the Dementors attack him) what happened that night. The house in Godric’s Hollow was completely destroyed, so how could anyone have a clear idea of what took place? Yet at the end of PS Dmbledore talks to Harry about Lily’s sacrifice. He also knew to send Hagrid to get Harry. How did he know to do this so quickly unless he had prior knowledge of what Lily was going to do?

Dumbledore is a man of strong intuition which he demonstrates many times throughout the series. While I don’t have an answer as to the exact location of Dumbledore that night, I do believe he was aware of what was happening in Godric’s Hollow. I think his uncanny perception alerted him that what they all feared was happening. Why didn’t he stop it then? Well, I think that in his wisdom Dumbledore respected Lily’s choice to give her life for her son and that he also sadly knew she was right. I can see him sitting quietly by himself somewhere pondering the event he knew was occuring at that very moment and silently mourning but honouring the Potters for their bravery.

[Fool]

Here is a question that's been bothering me for a long time...

Just how many people knew where the Potters were hiding? That is to say, how many were told by the secret keeper? There are several we know of right away. Dumbledore, Hagrid, Sirius, Peter and Voldie (through Peter). Now I wonder if the charm vanishes upon the deaths of those whom it is supposed to protect, but I doubt it.

It seems odd to me that if you believe there is a spy in your midst, you'd grant access to the hunted to so many people. Obviously Dumbledore could be trusted, and on his word Hagrid as well, however it seems like you'd be much more cautious about the matter.

[Arithmancy]

I also have a strong feeling that Dumbledore knew Lily was going to sacrifice herself for Harry. ... The house in Godric’s Hollow was completely destroyed, so how could anyone have a clear idea of what took place? Yet at the end of PS Dmbledore talks to Harry about Lily’s sacrifice. He also knew to send Hagrid to get Harry. How did he know to do this so quickly unless he had prior knowledge of what Lily was going to do?.

Very logical! The only alternative explanation would be that Lily was found among the rubble next to Harry's bed without her wand. However, then Dumbledore would have been only guessing about her sacrifice, but he seems very certain that this was exactly what took place.

So if Dumbledore knew... I wonder if he also "knows" (or sees) what will Harry have to do? Depressing... :(

[C8H10N4O2]

DD had set a watch on Harry (Mrs. Figg) so why not his parents?

I like the idea of the portrait. (Which makes me wonder, did Phineas Nigelus (sp) spy on the Order within DD's office for the DEs? Or would DD not have held Order business there?)

I think that they could have also had a special means of communication -- like the DEs tatoo-thingys or the DAs coins.

[atherella]

I know that if I were Lily and knew that there was a very good probability that the worst dark wizard in the world would be coming after myself and my family, ESPECIALLY my son, I'd have done everything in my power to prepare some sort of defense. I don't think it's unlikely at all that Lily had gone to DD in order to get guidance, or help with some sort of way that would possibly save her family. I find it very likely that DD in some way helped guide Lily to do whatever it is she did to protect Harry. I know if it were my son being threatened, I would do ANYTHING in the world to protect him. I wouldn't just sit in hiding and hope he never finds us. I would be trying to come up with ANYTHING so that I would be prepared.

Here is a question that's been bothering me for a long time...

Just how many people knew where the Potters were hiding? That is to say, how many were told by the secret keeper? There are several we know of right away. Dumbledore, Hagrid, Sirius, Peter and Voldie (through Peter). Now I wonder if the charm vanishes upon the deaths of those whom it is supposed to protect, but I doubt it.

It seems odd to me that if you believe there is a spy in your midst, you'd grant access to the hunted to so many people. Obviously Dumbledore could be trusted, and on his word Hagrid as well, however it seems like you'd be much more cautious about the matter.

I don't think that Pettigrew told DD where the Potters were, otherwise, DD would have KNOWN that Pettigrew was the traitor and not Sirius. And we KNOW that DD testified AGAINST Sirius, stating that he was the Potter's secret keeper. So, I think it's safe to assume that Pettigrew did NOT tell DD. As for Hagrid, DD sent Hagrid to Godric's Hollow, I don't see any evidence that Pettigrew told Hagrid where the Potters were hiding. It doesn't seem to make sense that Pettigrew told anyone BUT LV where to find the Potters. Even Lupin didn't know that Pettigrew was the SK, so why would Pettigrew go off and tell Hagrid, of all people?

[RemusLupinFan]

I also have a strong feeling that Dumbledore knew Lily was going to sacrifice herself for Harry. ... The house in Godric’s Hollow was completely destroyed, so how could anyone have a clear idea of what took place? Yet at the end of PS Dmbledore talks to Harry about Lily’s sacrifice. He also knew to send Hagrid to get Harry. How did he know to do this so quickly unless he had prior knowledge of what Lily was going to do?I also like this explanation because it seems like the kind of thing Dumbledore would have been able to intuit from prior conversations with Lily, even if she didn't come right out and tell Dumbledore that it was her intention to give her life for her son. Remember, Dumbledore is very astute, even when he is left to guess at the truth. In OotP, Lupin says "Dumbledore's got a shrewd idea...and Dumbledore's shrewd ideas normally turn out to be accurate."

I think it's very likely Dumbledore informed Lily about the ancient blood magic that would protect her son if Voldemort were to come after them; it would have been a very Dumbledore-like thing to do. We see Dumbledore doing this a lot with Harry: he gives him just enough information to be able to rise to the many challenges he is faced with, and to be able to save himself and others. I can imagine the conversation Dumbledore must have had with Lily (and James) about all the options that were available to them in the event that Voldemort did find out where they were hiding. I agree with you Elf that it's likely James had no idea Lily was planning to sacrifice herself for many of the reasons you mentioned. It would have been far too painful for her to break this news to her husband, and I get the feeling he would never allow her to go through with it.

As an other option for how Dumbledore knew that Voldemort had located the Potters is that there could have been a portrait stationed inside Godric's Hollow. I believe this is feasible considering the number of portraits Dumbledore keeps in contact with, and considering the importance and gravity of the situation. This portrait could have witnessed the scene and reported to Dumbledore the truth of what had happened.

As a third option, I would consider Elf's idea of Fawkes being present at Godric's Hollow. Although we have no direct proof of this, it could have been possible that Fawkes was sent by Dumbledore to keep vigil on the Potters, and when Voldemort approached, Dumbledore was then alerted. I like what some people suggested on Elf's thread that Fawkes could have protected baby Harry from the collapsing building until Hagrid arrived to bring him to the Dursleys. Although Fawkes' presence at Godric's Hollow isn't certain, it is an idea that is worth investigating and shouldn't be discounted.

[Fool]

I don't think that Pettigrew told DD where the Potters were, otherwise, DD would have KNOWN that Pettigrew was the traitor and not Sirius. And we KNOW that DD testified AGAINST Sirius, stating that he was the Potter's secret keeper. So, I think it's safe to assume that Pettigrew did NOT tell DD. As for Hagrid, DD sent Hagrid to Godric's Hollow, I don't see any evidence that Pettigrew told Hagrid where the Potters were hiding. It doesn't seem to make sense that Pettigrew told anyone BUT LV where to find the Potters. Even Lupin didn't know that Pettigrew was the SK, so why would Pettigrew go off and tell Hagrid, of all people?



Hagrid picked Harry up from the wreckage of the Potter's house. Sirius met him at the house as he was taking Harry to the Dursleys. I believe it was in PoA that this was stated.

If you fastforward to OotP, #12 Grimmauld Place is invisible to Harry before he is let in on the secret by the note from Dumbledore. Therefore, unless Hagrid and Sirius were both in on the secret, they would not be able to find the Potter's house. Hagrid would not have been able to rescue Harry.

The only reason Dumbledore himself was not the Potter's secret keeper was because of the friendship James had with Sirius. I'm not sure that Sirius was ever the actual secret keeper, as he convinced James to make Peter the secret keeper, not to transfer it to Peter. However if both Sirius and Hagrid could find the Potter's house after it's destruction, it means they were either in on the secret, or the charm disappears upon the destruction of the house.

[grrliz]

I'm not sure that Sirius was ever the actual secret keeper, as he convinced James to make Peter the secret keeper, not to transfer it to Peter. I just wrote out this thing that I thought would proove that Sirius might not ever had been the secret keeper, but then found more evidence against it. :)

Sirius says "I persuaded Lily and James to change to Peter at the last moment, persuaded them to use him as Secret-Keeper instead of me..." (PoA, p 268, Canadian edition). At first that statement might fit the theory that he was never the Secret-Keeper in the first place, especially if we only look at the last part, the persuaded them to use him as a Secret-Keeper instead of me. That part might imply that though James insisted on using Sirius, Sirius insisted on Peter instead.

But the one thing that bugs me about the statement is the word change. "I persuaded Lily and James to change to Peter at the last moment." To change implies changing from one thing to another. So if Sirius persuaded them to change to Peter as the Secret Keeper, who is he persuading them to change from? If not Sirius, then who?

I thought at first maybe he meant from Dumbledore to Peter (for some reason I really want to believe your theory, Fool!), but Dumbledore was never really a sirius contender (hahaha) for the Secret Keeper position. Dumbledore suggested it, but James pretty much shot the idea down in suggesting Sirius. Maybe Lupin was the original Secret Keeper, but if that were the case he would have mentioned something during the whole showdown at the Shrieking Shack because he would have known about the switch, and thus about Sirius' innocense the whole time.

[Elf]

original post by Fool
If you fastforward to OotP, #12 Grimmauld Place is invisible to Harry before he is let in on the secret by the note from Dumbledore. Therefore, unless Hagrid and Sirius were both in on the secret, they would not be able to find the Potter's house. Hagrid would not have been able to rescue Harry.

There is speculation that because the Potters' house was destroyed, the Fidelius Charm would no longer have been in effect. This being the case, it would be very easy to find the ruins of their home, even these people had no prior knowledge of its exact location in Godric's Hollow.

original post by RemusLupinFan
As a third option, I would consider Elf's idea of Fawkes being present at Godric's Hollow. Although we have no direct proof of this, it could have been possible that Fawkes was sent by Dumbledore to keep vigil on the Potters, and when Voldemort approached, Dumbledore was then alerted. I like what some people suggested on Elf's thread that Fawkes could have protected baby Harry from the collapsing building until Hagrid arrived to bring him to the Dursleys. Although Fawkes' presence at Godric's Hollow isn't certain, it is an idea that is worth investigating and shouldn't be discounted.

Why thanks, RemusLupinFan, I was just about to mention that! :) I think regardless of whether or not we believe Fawkes was actually in the Potters' house or actively took part in the incident with Voldemort, it is likely that Dumbledore was using him to keep a watchful eye on many things at that time. We have seen Dumbledore use Fawkes as a messenger or watchman before, so myself, I do think the most likely scenario is that Fawkes reported to Dumbledore what happened.

[LouisaB]

Came across this thread whilst looking for something else slightly connected. What I was looking for incidentally is any theories on who Dumbledore's other spies are - please direct me to the appropriate thread for that discussion if you know it. But back to this discussion...

In the Marauder's Map chapter of PoA Fudge refers to Dumbledore having "a number of useful spies" referring to one of the spies tipping off Dumbledore that Voldemort was after Lily and James.

Peter obviously betrayed the Potters by telling Voldemort where they were. But I wonder if he told any of the Death Eaters.

If he had told Voldemort in the presence of the others then there would be a number of people who now know where the Potters were hiding.

We know that Snape was spying at this point but even if it was not him I think it is possible that there could have been another spy in the Death Eaters who could have alerted Dumbledore that the Potters had been betrayed.

The only problem is that because they were not the secret keeper they would not be able to tell Dumbledore where the Potters were. But the way I understand it they would be able to tell Dumbledore at the very least that Voldemort knows the location of the Potters.

Now we know from Sirius that the Potters were at home. He said so himself when he explained that he had gone to check on Peter, found him gone and went to the Potter's house and found it destroyed. Not sure on how he would have been able to see anything since he was not the secret keeper. I would suspect that the Potters' deaths would break the charm completely so that everyone could see them, but up until then I would imagine he would only be able to keep an eye open for Voldemort and perhaps head him off - unfortunately he was too late of course.

Now since they were at home would it be possible for the spy who the information has been given to, to tell Dumbledore that Voldemort knows that the Potters are at their home WITHOUT giving the address?

If the secret itself was, for instance, that the Potters are hiding at whatever the exact address is in Godric's Hollow. Could ratboy have said something to Voldemort (and anyone else listening) that the Potters were at home at...then their address. But the spy informing Dumbledore could merely say the part about them being at home as it is not part of the actual secret.

Dumbledore would know where they lived and be able to send Hagrid - though that part I never understood since he would not be the fastest person to get there since he can't do magic, i.e. apparate.

Of course another problem with this is why the spy didn't tell Dumbledore who it was that had betrayed the Potters?

Well funnily enough this brings me back to Snape. If it was any other spy who tipped off Dumbledore surely they would be able to tell Dumbledore that it was Peter who betrayed the Potters. BUT if we look at the history between Snape and the Marauders it would make sense for the traitor to not be revealed to Dumbledore. Dumbledore believed that Sirius was the secret keeper, therefore he believed that he was the traitor. Wouldn't it be really tempting for Snape to let him continue to think that? The ringleaders of the gang of tormentors were James and Sirius, Peter was just tagging along after them and is believed to be dead anyway. So why not let Sirius rot in Azkaban...he might even think it poetic justice for him to end up there since in his eyes he had attempted to murder him by sending him to meet werewolf Lupin.

So that is my theory on why I think that it was Snape who told Dumbledore that the Potters had been betrayed.

If there is anyone still awake after all that who knows of a thread discussing who DD's other spies are please direct me to it. Thanks.

[SquibOnline]

He probably had them spied on

[nautiestmonk]

sorry if about bringing this back up but after reading through all the poast I had a few thoughts.

All kind of tie together

1. The Prophecy - after hearing this I'm sure DD told both the Potters and The Longbottoms. At that point Lily and James most likely made some other arraingments besides the charm. Most likely Lily making up her mind to sacrifice herself for her son.
I know James went first, but that brings me to the next part

2. Lily didn't have to die. Voldomort wasn't going to kill her, she could have been spared. I know that for her to be spared she would have most likely had to give up her son, but he had no problems killing James.

that brings me to another thought

3. The whole Heir thing. If the Potters are somehow related to Gryffindor, it would make sense he sought them all along. DD would no doubt know what their bloodline held. As such he would have had more protection around them than the Longbottoms.

4. last is the charm. I know about the secret keeper thing but what Flitwick said about pressing noses to windows. I know how Grimmauld place works, how the house appears from no where. but The pressing the nose to the windows is where I'm confused.

I'm still left with more questions.

but my theory is that... I have no idea.

Fawkes seems like a good thought. So do the portraits, since we really know nothing about the Potter family history there could always be a relative hidden somewhere on DD's wall.

And if they were in their house, the one where they had lived since being married, wouldn't everyone know it's location? thus again the pressing the noses to windows thing again.

[Alkamax]

I just always thought that since they were in the order, and they knew Voldemort was after them that there was probably a painting stationed on watch for the Potters. B/C of the prophecy and Harry being so important to the wizarding world and all.

[Delving]

I find the idea of Fawkes having been at Godric's Hollow really interesting, and I'll be waiting to see if we get more on that in books six or seven.

Someone asked earlier in this thread why, if Dumbledore didn't know whether the Potters or the Longbottoms would be attacked, he would have had Fawkes at the Potters'. What if he was covering both places, and had Fawkes at the Potters', and Hagrid at the Longbottoms'? I don't think it says anywhere in cannon how far apart the Potters and the Longbottoms lived, but this might explain why Hagrid was able to get to the Potters quickly, but not immediately. He may have been closer than anyone at Hogwarts, but not right there.

(Speaking of which, the question has also been raised -- why couldn't DD have sent someone who could apparate, rather than Hagrid? What if, as an extra precaution in addition to the Fidelius charm, spells were put on Godric's Hollow that made it impossible to apparate, like at Hogwarts? I can see where if you were trying to protect a place, you might not want just anyone being able to pop in there. It would also explain why James and Lilly didn't grab Harry and apparate the heck out of there when Voldemort showed up.)

I also had the prosaic, almost too boring thought -- what if there's a much simpler explanation for how DD knew? While James was holding Voldemort off, could Lilly have sent an owl or appeared in Dumbledore's fire? Maybe she couldn't run for some reason, and couldn't apparate as previously hypothesized, and this was the best thing she could think of to do. (Actually, I hope the real explanation is more interesting than that.)

[jasper]

I also had the prosaic, almost too boring thought -- what if there's a much simpler explanation for how DD knew? While James was holding Voldemort off, could Lilly have sent an owl or appeared in Dumbledore's fire? Maybe she couldn't run for some reason, and couldn't apparate as previously hypothesized, and this was the best thing she could think of to do. (Actually, I hope the real explanation is more interesting than that.)
Or she shot a signal out of her wand-- I think this is the way the order communicate.

[kallie]

Here is a theory... DD sent a portrait to keep an eye on the potter family. When Sirius was the secret keeper he informed DD and Hagrid. When the secret keeper was changed, DD and Hagrid didn't need to know where they were because they already had been told. Now then wormtail tells voldemort, he arrives and does his thing. When he enters the house Lily runs to Harry's room- where the portrait is ( DD has a habit of putting a portrait in Harry's room ) She informes the Order. Since the house has many protective charms - I like the no apparation thing it does make sense, they can't leave. Also I think there would be a rule about apparating with underage wizards- remember the Weasley's . So if voldemort is in the house wouldn't you think that there would be DE's stationed outside so the Potter's couldn't run? So the Potter's are stuck in the house- DD is informed but he is too late to save them. He looks in the portrait and sees Lily lying there dead, He sends Hagrid (giant blood makes him harder to kill) to get Harry . This is my theory anyway , I still worry Fudge was involved - recall the "destroyed" street and the "destroyed" house .

[shaggydogstail]

Well, there's quite alot here already. I just want to add a few points.
1) The fidelius charm was most likely performed by Lily (i.e. not Dumbledore or he would have known that Pettigrew was the secret keeper).
2) Lily's death may have ended the charm - especially if she was both the caster of the spell and the one it was meant to protect. Or when the house was destroyed. Or Peter as secret keeper could have told both Sirius and Hagrid the location of the house (Even if Sirius had known where the house was before, he wouldn't have been able to find it whilst it was under the fidelius charm unless Peter told him).
3) The prophesy was made before Harry was born, but Voldemort found him and tried to kill him when he was, I think, 15 months old. It's possible that Snape found out that Voldemort was planning to kill Harry any time in between, and told Dumbledore. Which is why Dumbledore knew to protect the Potters more than the Longbottoms. (In fact, it was probably because of intelligence from Snape that they were going into hiding in the first place - how else could anyone have realised the Voldemort knew about the prophesy?)
4) Dumbledore could have stationed Fawkes with the Potters. When he received the warning from Fawkes he could have set up a portkey to send Hagrid to Godric's Hollow.
5) Sirius knew something was up when Pettigrew failed to meet him somewhere. He went to Peter's house first, then to Godric's Hollow. It probably wasn't very long after Voldemort was there that Sirius arrived, but it could have been a few hours. (Depends on when it got suspicious, how far he had to travel etc)
6) Hagrid's only instructions were to collect Harry. I don't think he suspected Sirius, but was just doing exactly what Dumbledore had asked. (Mind you, much as I love Sirius, I wouldn't trust him on a flying motorbike with a baby at the best of times, far less given the state he must have been in on discovering his best friend had been murdered :eyebrows: )
7) I think Lily did use magic when she sacrificed herself for Harry (which is why he is the ONLY person to have survived Avada Kedavra - the DEs had killed whole families before, and Lily can't be the only person to have been prepared to die for someone she loved) I'm just not sure how premeditated it was - if she felt it was inevitable, I wonder whether she might have tried to get rid of James, so that when she died at least Harry would still have one parent. I don't know whether Dumbledore knew or not, but I do sometimes get the feeling that even he doesn't fully understand how Harry was protected.

OK, I've rambled on a bit there. :eyebrows: But essentially, my answer to the question of how Dumbledore knew/how did Hagrid get there so quickly is that it was a chain - prophesy - information from Snape - Fawkes - portkey. TA-DA!

[aggiefan1206]

Dumbledore probably had people close by and if they saw in signs of trouble they contacted him. Just like he has people watching Harry. It may seem weird but its dumbldore im sure he set up other precautions.

[Delving]

Or she shot a signal out of her wand-- I think this is the way the order communicate.

Yes, I think that's quite a likely explanation, given the recent update on JKR's website.

[kallie]

Remember that the Longbottom's weren't attacked until after the Potter's were attacked. Eveyone threw their parties and celebrated voldemort's downfall. So sometime later the Longbottom's get attacked. Recall- Trelawney's 1st prediction was the one about Harry(ultimatly) before he and Neville were born.2nd was about wormtail escaping. So after voldemort "marks" Harry- DD's attention is turned to keeping Harry safe- not Neville. So it can be said that both families were protected but after the attack on the Potter's, the Longbottom's protection was lifted. There were probably many complex spells around both families. DD is known to cover all possibilities - isn't he?