Who owns the Riddle House?

[sugarquill]

Who is the rich man who payed for the upkeep of the riddle house in book 4 and why did he do it ? The book talks about 'tax reasons', note the qoutation marks. This makes me wonder about this character, will we see him mentioned again? Is he a death eater ? did voldi himself arrange for it in anticipation of his future needs, his father's bones etc. I found it strange how this little fact was slipped in there.

[Auri DeMeer]

I posted something about this in another thread - I believe this man is Dumbledore. Reasons:

* He bought it to keep a closer eye on the events around Hangleton, home village of Voldemort. And we see he's very well informed about the gardener's disappearance.

* He kept old Frank Bryce doing the gardening although he never intended to use it or live there. It seems like a good action, to keep Frank in his job.

[dumbleedore]

I think it was just a statement, but with JK you'd never know. Certainly he'd be curious as to why his groundskeeper, who was present at the time of the Riddle's murders was found dead in the exact same room, in perfect health apart from the fact that he was dead.

But I still think it was just a statement.

[Girl]

voldermort could be the rice man. reason being that he might have wanted to keep the place in his hands so that he could use it whenever he needed.

[sugarquill]

Dumbledore? Dont you think he has a magical way to keep an eye on the place? He seems to know everything about everything besides why ndidnt he do something to stop voldi if his purpose was to keep an eye on the place?

[rotsiepots]

I vaguely recall there being a similar thread on this topic but I can't seem to find it...anyhoo, I digress.

I always assumed that the owner of the Riddle house was either:

1. Naive and unaware of its sinister connections or
2. A "collector" of dark material pertaining to the life and times of Tom Riddle/Voldemort.

Evidently if the owner falls into category number one, it's really quite irrelevant who they are. If, however, the owner is informed about the house's sinister history, it wouldn't surprise me if a Death Eater owned it.

It seems like the type of house Lucius Malfoy might own -- he is a known collector of Voldemort memorabilia, afterall.

However, it should be noted that the owner kept the house for "tax reasons". Certainly taxation is a Muggle phenomenon? I'm sure they have means of raising revenue in the wizarding world, but I doubt they call it tax.

Just a thought.

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by sugarquill (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=292218#post292218))
He seems to know everything about everything
No, he doesn't. He was fooled by Barty Jr/Crouch, he was fooled by Quirrel in many ways... There are things that Dumbledore doesn't know. If he knew everything there would be no adventures! ;)

Originally posted by sugarquill (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=292218#post292218))
why ndidnt he do something to stop voldi if his purpose was to keep an eye on the place
I'm sure Frank would have informed the House owner about the strange sounds he heard in the House if he had had the opportunity. Unfortunately he didn't live long enough.

[tabby]

Originally posted by rotsiepots (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=292239#post292239))However, it should be noted that the owner kept the house for "tax reasons". Certainly taxation is a Muggle phenomenon? I'm sure they have means of raising revenue in the wizarding world, but I doubt they call it tax.

Just a thought.


Why would they use a different word? They don't use a different word for anything else. Why would they bother changing that one?

I didn't even realise it was the original Riddle house. Or didn't remember that point. I don't think it would be owned by a death eater. Simply because after Voldemorts fall the death eaters were on the run. Purchasing his property would look suspicious. Even 10 years afterwards.

I think it's owned by some ignorant muggle who got it cheap and can use it for tax purposes. Though I don't know why the groundsman would be kept on. That's odd.

[Silk E Smooth]

I've always thought it was Voldermont. Even in his absences, he probably has a muggle fortune that wasn't turned over to the bank if they have no record of him dying. So maybe he had a method paying for the caretaker's salary and for stuff around the house.

[Alastor D]

It seems Voldemort ought to have inherited it in the first place, unless Tom sr had siblings, but there were some newer owners who actually lived there.
The tax reasons were a rumour in the village, not necessarily the present owners real reasons.
And Dumbledore told Harry that he knew abt Frank's death because he used to read muggle papers.

[Dongaga Eatcafé]

Yes, that's what he told Harry :)

[harp230]

The books refers to "new owner" so ownership must have changed hands over the years. Were Riddle Sr's parents even aware of the grandchild? I have a suspicion that they did not even know? Who knows Voldie's father may not have even known about him. Either way I doubt they would have left the house to him. If they knew he existed, I am sure they were in denial. There is no clue to haw long the new owner has owned the house. Maybe Voldemort has even owned it since before he came accross Harry? Or else it is part of Lucius Malfoy's private "National Voldemort Hall of Fame and Museum".

[supernatural]

i am seriously confused.
i hope someone out there can help me with this one.
it is said that the riddles were murdered and we assume by voldemort, but wouldn't people realise his body wasn't there?
i know three bodies were discovered so i assume voldemort repleced himself with someone else- but who could this be? or am i totally wrong.

and harp- i'm confused as to the grandchild issue- voldemort (aka tom) doesn't have a child or are we talking about voldemorts grandparents not knowing about him.

if everyone believed the family died, then the house would move into public hands, and would therefore make sense that voldemort had to buy it back- probably in the height or before the height of his power- that would make sense.
i dont know- as i said i'm confused.
:banghead:

[Puffskein]

This has confused lots of people. Voldemort killed his father (Tom Riddle Senior) and his father's parents. They are described as "elederly Mr and Mrs Riddle and their grown-up son Tom". The teenage boy seen around the house was Tom Riddle Junior, later Lord Voldemort.

There are some interesting ideas in this thread, I don't know if the ownership of the Riddle House will be important in the future books. It might be a pretty good twist if it is. The "tax reasons" could just be a cover-up to avoid raising Muggle suspicion.

[Filius Flitwick]

I always reasoned that Lucius Malfoy or one of the other Death Eaters bought the house as a kind of shrine to one of their master's early kills.

[DocHollidaywe]

I never though about it, I like the Dumbledore theory

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by Filius Flitwick (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=293000#post293000))
I always reasoned that Lucius Malfoy or one of the other Death Eaters bought the house as a kind of shrine to one of their master's early kills.

A DE wouldn't have kept old Frank in the terms that we saw.

[Lily Black]

I think that Lucius Malfoy owns the riddle house. The only way I see this being relevant is if Harry does go and actually visits the house in a future book. I don't think JK Rowling would have spent so much time there. I mean, Harry and Voldemort dueled right by the house. It has to be a place of some significance. But knowing who owns it or not might not be important, at least not yet.
~L.B.~

[wolfie]

I just assumed that it was a random muggle. I mean, Tom Sr. and his parents were muggles, so when they died then muggle lawyers probably took care of the house and stuff - and eventually sold it to whoever was interested.

Plus, why would a DE be interested in the house anyway? Tom never lived there - he lived in an orphanage. Only his muggle father and grandparents lived there.

[FoolOnTheHill]

I also always assumed it was Voldemort who owned the house. I thought he'd want it empty just in case he ever needed it. After all, how did he know the place was going to be empty when he told Wormtail to take him there? Well, maybe with some super Voldy powers, but I still think it's him. But the Lucius Malfoy theory isn't bad either.

[Jinxie Cat]

Someone around here mentioned that they think Lucius Malfoy owns the house... This does make a little bit of sense but I don't believe it. Dumbledore probably does not own it... It's probably just some Muggle who buys lots of house for 'tax reasons' :D

[harp230]

My guess is that th "tax reasons" is no more than a rumor and that is is so specifically stated in the book it is just in there to through us off the scent . But that is just the conspiricy theorist in me. Most likley I think it is Voldemort but it could also be Lucius Malfoy.

[lanifiel]

I think it was just Voldemort. No big theory, just a standing monument to everything he detests and hates in his life. A lot of people do the same thing...

[sugarquill]

Yeah I think its Voldi too, he was so sure it would be empty and that he'd be safe there. However, the Malfoy idea is also interesting after all he did collect old voldi things so why not the the house where voldi got his start, cause I think the murders and probably the rush he got from them were the catatlist for the birth of voldamort the terrible.

[supernatural]

thanks for clearing that up for me- i cant believe i didn't see that before- and knowing that voldermort grew up in an orphanage- sorry, must've had a blonde moment then (no offense to blondes- it's just I am one.)

As for who owns the house, it would make sense that voldermort owns the house as he seems to know that its empty, and it would be a good place to hide.
if dumbledore owned it then i reckon he would've known voldermort was there- he seems to know where everyone else is- maybe he has a magical way of keeping an eye on things-
as for keeping frank on when they took over the house, maybe whoever owned it wanted it's upkeep to be maintained to avert suspicion- maybe sacking frank would have caused suspicion.
i think voldemort owns it personally- he must know it was his fathers/ grandparents house from when he killed them.
what i want to know is how did voldemort find the house in the first place to kill them?-
or am i being stupid again- please correct me if i've done something dumb!!!

[Alastor D]

As he grew up bearing the Riddle name, I believe he knew all the time. His mother must have told somebody who the father was. And the orphanage was perhaps in Little Hangleton. It ought to have been easy enough to find out were they lived.

[supernatural]

do you think we'll find out anymore about the death of the riddles or any further developments in little hangleton- or will this not be mentioned again?
I hope there will be more detail about this- answers to questions like who owns the riddle house and what happened after frank was murdered? (surely locals would have noticed his disappearance and reported it to the police)

[Alastor D]

Frank's dissapearance was reported in muggle papers. But we don't know if any muggle ever found the body in the house. Or if Wormtail buried him in the grounds for nobody to find.

[Weatherby]

I think Voldemort is a squatter. :)

Either Dumbledore or an unknown rich dude using the house for taxes owns it. It could be anyone...

[Girl]

I have a feeling that we will be seeing more of the Riddle house in future books. The reason is that Voldermort could be using it as a hidding place. Who would think of looking for him there?
After all only his close friends in school (who must be Death Eaters also), Harry and Dumbledore know that Tom Riddle is Voldermort.

[jordmundt6]

Yes, it's a good base of operations. But the original question is one of the things that should probably be put on ice until after the fifth book comes out because you can debate it ad nauseum and come up with about 50 theories of who actually bought it and why it was purchased (Lucius Malfoy leaps to mind just at first glance) without any concrete evidence to support or refute any of them.

[Barbara Kennedy]

If it generates debate, why should it be "put on ice"?

[jordmundt6]

I guess although airing different views is fun, it's slightly more productive to debate when you have more information and you can make more reasoned theories that tie various segments of the books together. It would have been like talking about "So who do we suppose this bloke with the Flying Motorcycle is?" after CoS came out but before PoA or any information for it came out. But we've been around this before haven't we Barbara?:) So, I concede. Let the speculation carry on! :D

[Barbara Kennedy]

That's all I wanted to know. Just have fun. That is what the forum is about.

EDIT. We all have our opinions and theories. I enjoy hearing other peoples views on things I read and saw a different way. My mind has been changed by some of the posts and not by others. Everyone has the right to use their own mind.
I respect that.

[Shoujo Kitsune]

well, after trying to think about who actually owned the house, I just though tI would go with the simple answer. The city. The house is abandoned right, well, Voldmort only used it because he needed his father's bones and a place to hide...I don't think that they will be using it as a hide out given that Harry knows were it is and so they willleave it again and it would become irrelevant.

[jordmundt6]

That's probably the only idea we can refute at this point. We know from the Little Hangletons or Hangletonites or whatever that some rich dude (we know it's a guy) owns the property for some nebulous, undefined "tax reasons" and never goes up to the property but pays Frank Bryce to continue his guarding/gardening duties.

[Shoujo Kitsune]

Then maybe it's Dumbledore

[jordmundt6]

Sorry about the double-post, the boards jammed me up. It could be Dumbledore, as an insurance policy but I don't think he would have been very shy about going to visit Frank and getting his story on the murders and maybe healing his war wound. I'd think it'd probably be one of Voldemort's closest supporters with lots of means and a talent for hushing things up (which is why I'm inclined to think it's Lucius because he seems to be the Dark Lord memorobilia hound and favored among the followers).

[Shoujo Kitsune]

Hehe..I can just see Lucius, showing off his museaum of Dark Lord memorabelia....but then that would mean that he believed he was alive and that he didn't try to get him back...like he wanted the power for himself. And he would have killed Frank for being there to see what happened and replaced him with one of his own man slaves...

[jordmundt6]

My post got deleted again! So, you're saying that if Lucius were really going to turn the Riddle House into a showplace, he'd have to kill Frank as a surviving witness? I doubt it. He seems to hold onto these things to claim the power or symbolic value they have for his own, not to show them off (since that would tip his hand as a Death Eater). Tax reasons seems like the perfect alibi.

[Barbara Kennedy]

But wouldn't that indicate he has considerable dealings with the muggle world?
To have knowledge of such things he would have to be very well versed in "Muggle Studies".

[black&potter]

i dont believe (The Riddle House) will be of much importance anymore
it wouldnt be a good hideout seeing as Harry knows where it is Dumbledore knows about it and Voldemort has gotten what he needed from it (his fathers bones) as to the ownership of the property.....whom ever purchased it for (tax reasons) will either restore it for sale to a muggle or rent the place out

[harp230]

Well Harry doesn't know where it is necessarily. He just took a portkey to the area. He doesn't necessarily know if he traveled a few miles or hindreds of miles.... With detective work I'm sure he could figure it out....

[Shoujo Kitsune]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=295353#post295353))
My post got deleted again! So, you're saying that if Lucius were really going to turn the Riddle House into a showplace, he'd have to kill Frank as a surviving witness? I doubt it. He seems to hold onto these things to claim the power or symbolic value they have for his own, not to show them off (since that would tip his hand as a Death Eater). Tax reasons seems like the perfect alibi.


no, I was just saying that he seems to love to collect the old things of Voldemort's. He wouldn't use the house as a museum, just that he would have one at home to show off for all of the old supporters....reminising about old times. He would have to kill Frank because well, he hates muggles first of all, and secondly because he is a liability. And then Voldemort woul dhave made mention of it in the things that Lucius has done to show his support...but he didn't.

[Alastor D]

Not only Harry and Dumbledore except the DEs. Ollivander knows and after the end of CoS also McGonagall, Ginny, Arthur, Molly and Ron. So it's probably common knowledge by now.

Sorry for posting this out of context. I had page 1 open when I wrote this.

[Auri DeMeer]

Just another crazy idea crossed my mind a few months ago but I never posted it. Anyway, I'll share it now.

Could the Riddle House be Godric's Hollow?
We know that "the Riddle House" is just the nickname the Muggles in Little Hangleton have for the House, but its real name could be another one.
The place where the Potters were hiding was "blown up" totally or just damaged?

I know this theory is total crazy but this is the place for it! :)
Comments?

[Girl]

Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=296008#post296008))
Just another crazy idea crossed my mind a few months ago but I never posted it. Anyway, I'll share it now.

Could the Riddle House be Godric's Hollow?
We know that "the Riddle House" is just the nickname the Muggles in Little Hangleton have for the House, but its real name could be another one.
The place where the Potters were hiding was "blown up" totally or just damaged?

I know this theory is total crazy but this is the place for it! :)
Comments?


I don't think the houses are the same. After all the potter's house was completly distroyed.
My guess is the Vodermort might have owned the house using his real name Tom M. Riddle as to not make ater wizards wonder why he owns a house. After all only Voldermort close friends knew he called himself Voldermort.
The Riddle house would make a good hiding place. Also Voldermort's father was burried there. Did Voldermort not say that he knew that his father would come in use someday in GoF?

[sugarquill]

I think that Godric Hoillow is ties in with griffindor somehow doesnt it? I read it in a JK interview somwhere.

[Girl]

I think so too. It does seem strange that the lived in Godric Hollow which could have been named after Godric Griffindor.

[Alastor D]

She didn't exactly answer the question in that interview. She only said well spotted!, or something to that effect.
Which means we don't know for sure, yet.

[noni]

i sent Alastor D a pm just now (because i'm new, i have just realised the question i asked (in the pm) may be of a slightly off topic thread, but i'ts still regarding voldemort - which you are mentioning in these posts - but i apologise for any confusion!).

[Alastor D]

I apologise, noni, for believing the pm was a mistake.
And I'm sorry I can't tell you what thread to look in for your question, it has been constantly popping up in many different threads. Just read through some older threads.

[riddle_02]

Originally posted by Auri DeMeer (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=296008#post296008))
Just another crazy idea crossed my mind a few months ago but I never posted it. Anyway, I'll share it now.

Could the Riddle House be Godric's Hollow?
We know that "the Riddle House" is just the nickname the Muggles in Little Hangleton have for the House, but its real name could be another one.


Yes!!!! This 'apparated' into my head the other night and i knew i had to post the idea, so i'm glad someone else has considered the possibility. My theory came from reading ch1, GoF and watching the 1st movie (the part where they have a flashback to shoe how Harry was attacked by Voldemort) and the 1st book, various bits. reading/watching these might help the following make more sense:


THE ARGUMENT FOR:
Both are part of village's- (in ch1 GoF we learn Riddle House is on a hill overlooking 'Little Hangelton', and in PS/SS, p.45, it's said that the Potter's lived in a village) small villages, incidently, are ideally positioned in valleys (aka hollows, like say, Sleepy Hollow, *Godric's* hollow...etc.) to protect against the weather.

Both have mullioned windows (out the back at least, we know from the book (GoF) that the Riddle's house has "large mullioned windows each side of the front door" and watch the 1st movie to see the windows at the back of the potter's house.

Both have ivy running over the house (see 1st movie (Potter's house) and the 1st chapter of GoF (Riddle House)

The Riddle/Potter house looked as though it hadn't been lived in since a short time after the Riddle's were murdered (which happened in 1920's approx). And for the past 13 years no one actually *has* lived there, and no one lived there between the time it was abandoned by inhabitants and when Lily and James hypothetically moved in. But while the Potter's *were* there, they would have had various protection charms from Dumbledore, so it would have seemed abandoned and derelict to muggles anyway. And esepcially when Peter became their secret keeper, even Voldemort, (had he thought of looking in such a strange choice of location), would have only seen and old unused house. (See book3…somewhere, for support for that point- it's there, honestly!)

The Riddle House, as said in GoF, p. 10, is owned by "a wealthy man", who "neither lived there nor put it to any use; they said in the village that he kept it for tax reasons, though nobody was very clear what these might be". Could Dumbledore have purchased the house, to use it as a spot where Lily and James could hise, and Voldemort wouldn't think of looking? And just kept it for when Harry grows up. Or is it even that the house was bought in James name and passed/will pass to harry- the villager's just think the *same* wealthy man owns it- because no one lives there.

THE ARGUMENT AGAINST:
The house at Godric's Hollow was apparently destroyed, but overall we don't know much about it's destruction, so who knows if JK Rowling could explain that 'little obstacle' away. Maybe it was repaired magically, maybe it was only 'blown up' a little bit, not totally demolished. The damage couldn't have been too bad, or wouldn't it have crushed/killed baby Harry? Hagrid had to dig him our of the rubble or something, but maybe that's just a red herring, a bit like how most of the clues in the books don't fit properly until one of the *next* books provides the other piece of the puzzle!

That's all I have for now, send feedback, and point out the mistakes I'm sure I've made!

[riddle_02]

Extra 2 sickles:
I don't believe voldemort owns the riddle house- why would he give a hoot where the h*ll his dad lived- he hated the guy, he *killed the guy*! I just assumed, given his hatred of father and muggles that he wouldn't care a bit about what happened to the house. It's also a bit weird if lucius malfoy is the wealthy owner, he's a voldemort supporter, but he's also afraid of him- shown when vold. mentions in GoF, ch33 that lucius ran away when dark mark showed up at the world cup. i don't think any of the death eater's that are free to own property would be keen on owning the dark lord's father's house. and carrying on with my 'voldemort wouldn't care about the house' assumption, anything that voldemort didn't bother about, the deatheaters wouldn't want to bother with either..
...well, that's just what i've interpreted from the books so far. it's probably wrong, oh well.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Riddle 02, good posts, but instead of double posting, which mods frown on, try using the edit button on your posts to add to them or correct spellings or change a word......

[Lily Black]

Dumbledore cant own the house cuz Voldemort was hiding out in it..It just doesn't make sense. Voldemort can't own it himself because he would never continue paying Frank Bryce. Lucius is rich...right? I dont think that Frank is that big of an expense to him...It has to be someone who's rich enough to own an extra houe like that, and someone interested in it's history...
~L

[Moonstone]

I'm not sure Voldemort would particularly care who currently owned the house. It fit his purposes, as it was pretty much abandoned and secluded. He might have thought using it as a hide-out was a good omen- after all, he did get away with murder the last time he was known to be there.

[harlle15]

well! it's his name was not mentioned but i think it's dumbledore because he knows that Frank loves his job so i think dumbledore bought the riddle house for some reasons...

[Mad-I Moody]

We know that the man who owns the house is wealthy and that he pays Frank to stay on and tend to the grounds. We can assume, I think, that the person who owns the house wants Frank to stay on in order to keep vandals and things like that away from it. I don't think Voldemort can own the house because he would have known that Frank was still around and therefore wouldn't have been surprised when Nagini told him that an old Muggle was standing outside of the door eavesdropping. But then again, I guess it never said that Voldemort was surprised to know that.

I personally think that it is either Lucius Malfoy, because he could think that keeping this house would somehow give Voldemort a place to hide out for awhile, or maybe (I know this sounds crazy) Cornelius Fudge, because I think he is a bad guy, too. But that is just an unsupported theory.:whistle:

In any case, I think that we will see the Riddle house again. On one of the pictures released by Scholastic, you can see an old house with broken windows and stuff on the back of the book...it is the picture with the brown thing that looks like a wing...I'm assuming that it is the Riddle house.:huh:

[DarlingChild]

Maybe the owner is just one of those weird people who buy old unwanted houses just because they have the money to. *shrug*

[Potterologist]

I thought the owner may be Lucius Malfoy.

[wolfie]

Originally posted by Alastor D
Frank's dissapearance was reported in muggle papers. But we don't know if any muggle ever found the body in the house. Or if Wormtail buried him in the grounds for nobody to find.


I thought that Nagini ate him. :bite: .... 0.o

anyway, no one seems to have noticed my comment from back on page one: Why would a DE be interested in the house? Tom never lived there - he lived in an orphanage. Only his muggle father and grandparents lived there. It really is quite a useless house, except for the fact that it's empty.

[Mad-I Moody]

I think that a Death Eater might be interested in the house because they might realise that Voldemort could use it as a refuge. Also, they may simply want a piece of Volemort's history....like some wierd fanatic.

[I heart Sirius]

I definitly think it's Lucius Malfoy. Maybe when Voldie was still in power the first time, he used it something as a hideout maybe. And then after he got ruined by Harry, Lucius bought it and that's how he as so many of Voldemorts things.

I definitly dont think it's DD who owns it to keep a check on Voldie...or else he would have been more aware of what was going on there that summer.

[Alcina]

One interesting point. When Frank claims that his wife knows where he is, the Dark Lord replies 'You have no wife'. Now Ok, it's been established that he can tell when he's being lied to, but the statement 'You have no wife' seems a bit specific. This suggests to me that the Dark Lord knows something about Frank, which would argue in favour of him owning the house himself. OTOH, I can't see him hiring a muggle to tend the gardens, as he doesn't exactly have a high opinion of them...but then again, it might avoid awkward questions.

[Emmeline]

Great thread! Ever since I read GoF I have wondered about the owner of the Riddle House. Like someone pointed out, Voldemort's grand parents probably didn't know about him so he wouldn't have inherited the house. At least that's the way it seems through what the villagers of Little Hangleton knows about the house. They certainly don't seem to know about Tom Riddle Jr.

I'm more in favour of Lucius Malfoy owning it. I've always wondered how he came over Tom Riddle's diary and what he knew about it. Did he know TR would be able to open the Chamber of Secrets through it? What more does he own? In any case, it is very convenient for Voldemort to be able to stay there in GoF, also conveniently close (?) to TR Sr's grave which he needs.

The Godric's Hollow/Riddle House theory seems a little far stretched, but what did struck when reading that, was that unless JKR has made a mistake, Godric's Hollow can't be the name of the village where James and Lily lived (which I always asumed), because, Hogsmeade is "the only entirly non-Muggle settlement in Britain" ( p. 61, PoA) so James and Lily would have to have lived in a muggle village, and Godric's Hollow would be a VERY strange name for a Muggle village. So... I guess what I'm saying is that at least I agree that Godric's Hollow could be the name of their house/estate/manor (?), which is something I had never thought of before.

[Liselle]

I posted something about this in another thread - I believe this man is Dumbledore.

I always thought it was Lucius Malfoy who owned it, what better way to prove loyalty to Voldie than buy and maintain his paternal abode (not to mention boast about it), I always thought that it fitted, we know he's rich enough. Also the fact that Malfoy senior owns some of Tom Riddles school things

Liselle

[Liselle]

One interesting point. When Frank claims that his wife knows where he is, the Dark Lord replies 'You have no wife'. Now Ok, it's been established that he can tell when he's being lied to, but the statement 'You have no wife' seems a bit specific. This suggests to me that the Dark Lord knows something about Frank, which would argue in favour of him owning the house himself. OTOH, I can't see him hiring a muggle to tend the gardens, as he doesn't exactly have a high opinion of them...but then again, it might avoid awkward questions.


Voldemort is a legimens so he would know if Frank was lying (which in this case he was).....someone (I'm not sure who said) the dark lord always knows...or something to that effect. I don't think that he owns it himself but one of his deatheaters does

Liselle

[NYC_FINEZT]

i think the riddle house was bought (& maintained) by death eaters

[Oreo112]

In GoF (paperback version pg. 4), it tells us how a wealthy man now owns the Riddle estate. No one lives there, not is it put to any use - "they say in the village that he kept it for "tax reasons," though nobody was very clear what these might be."

Who is the wealthy man that owns the house? I have a feeling that it's Dumbledore. He knew who Voldemort was when he was still a Riddle. Knowing Dumbledore, I'm sure that he knew Tom's history, including where his father lived. Once Voldemort started coming into power, I could see Dumbledore purchasing the house as a means of keeping tabs on Voldemort if he ever returned there.

Dumbledore told Harry he knew about Frank Bryce's death from a Muggle newspaper. However, I think that he might know because Frank was the caretaker of the house he owned. I'm sure Dumbledore doesn't want anyone to know that he owns it (for obvious reasons), and considering the condition it was in, I'm sure Voldemort just assumed it was abandoned - that no one owned it. That's why he didn't think twice about going there.

[Nephel]

I agree with those who think the house belongs to the Malfoys, their Family has always been described as rich, so it fits it would belong to them. Where the villagers say 'tax reasons' I think Lucious Malfoy is keeping the house abandoned untill Lord Voldemorte arrives there, as it was his old house, it could still have alot of dark artefacts there.

[ginnybatbogeysyou]

I always thought it was Lucius Malfoy who owned it, what better way to prove loyalty to Voldie than buy and maintain his paternal abode (not to mention boast about it), I always thought that it fitted, we know he's rich enough. Also the fact that Malfoy senior owns some of Tom Riddles school things

Liselle
And Lucius seems to be the kind of person who would buy a house because of financial reasons. There has to be something in it for him to, because he doesn't seem to be such a loyal Death Eater to just buy a house for some man who is been said to be dead for 12 years.

[padfootgrim]

it is entirely possible it it malfoy... or it could be voldemort himself... he just has death eaters send out orders...

[koli]

I don't think that the man owning the house will play any role, we might see some more of the Riddle house, but it's in a muggle town, doesn't seem exactly discrete to have death eaters and voldemort all over there torturing muggles w/o the Ministry getting involved a lot and I dont think that Voldemort would like thta much, i think he's more of a surprise attack kinda guy.

[Rapunzel]

I don't see Voldemort (or Malfoy for that matter) giving any money to muggles for any reason. More likely that they would find out who owns the house and use the imperio curse to get them to live somewhere else and leave it empty. Or maybe use magic to make the house so uncomfortable that they wouldn't want to live there.

It's been a while since I read book 4. Was Frank being paid, or did he just stay there and keep up the yard because he had no place else to go since everyone in the area thought he had killed the Riddles?

[deadsirius]

Wow. this is a great thread! I congratulate whoever started it for spotting this.

But unfortunately, I feel that JKR just needed a reason for the house to still be there. Why would a DE be keeping the house if only Wormtail knew he was going to come back to partial power and use the house?

Besides, if JKR hadn't said that someone was keeping the house, there would be a thread called "Why hasn't the Riddle house been torn down?" Still, it's and excellent point.

[Dollmage]

I really doubt that the Malfoys would own the Riddle House. Considering Lucius Malfoy is 41 and the murders happened 50 years ago and neither of the 2 following families stayed long, I don't think he bought the house as a teenager thinking it would be his furture master's father's house.(sorry if that was a bit confuzzling). I think that the house just needed an owner that would explain why it hadn't been torn down because it is vital to the plot. That's where Voldemort goes to hide. Think about it...none of the Muggles are going to break into some creepy old house that had three(now four) murders happen inside of it. I think the owner is just some rich muggle that has no imortance to the plot.

But watch the first thing written in the sixth book is going to contradict that and I will feel all stupid and stuff. (Just kidding)

[Classical_Wizar]

i always thought Voldemort owned the house, that maybe when it was sold after the death of his family he brought it for a cheaper price at the auctioning.

[winter snow]

I think Voldemort is a squatter. :)

Either Dumbledore or an unknown rich dude using the house for taxes owns it. It could be anyone...

agree with this. I think Voldermort could be a squatter. After all, if a muggle comes around, it would be easy for Voldermort to dispose of them them. It would just be recorded as a random disappearance in the muggle papers. I don't have a clue who owns the house, if it's important, it will turn up again!

[grrliz]

Voldemort squatting in his old home makes sense to me.

1) Whoever holds the deed for taxation purposes doesn't sound like the visit too often, so the odds of Mr. Money Bags accidentally coming home from work one day to find Voldemort in his favourite chair by the fire are quite slim.

2) Frank was kept on as gardener, not gardener and housekeeper. Thus, he would never have any particular reason to go into the house and Voldemort could squat in peace. (I can't remember if there's a shed where he kept his tools, or if I'm just making that up.)

3) The Old Riddle House has as much stigma, if not more, than it's wizarding world equivalent, the Shrieking Shack. Both buildings instill a great fear in people, and don't often recieve many visitors (although local boys ride thier bikes through the Riddle yard, but that's just to mess up the lawn for Frank, there's nothing to suggest they go into the house). So, again, Voldemort has complete privacy and doesn't have to worry about nosy townsfolk bothering him.

I think it's entirely possible that he's squatting. I can't imagine that any of the Death Eaters would pay for the upkeep (really, only the tax) of the home for more than ten years if they weren't sure Voldemort was coming back. Dumbledore, on the otherhand, might have wanted to keep an eye on it, but I don't see what the problem had been if the taxes hadn't been paid on it. No one would surely buy that house. It would probably be bulldozed in the end, and a shopping mall put over it.

So we have to ask ourselves: who benefits from keeping the house intact?

[Kneazle_Herder]

Frank's dissapearance was reported in muggle papers. But we don't know if any muggle ever found the body in the house. Or if Wormtail buried him in the grounds for nobody to find.

Or if he was fed to Nagini...

[LS fan aSoUE]

i honestly don't think the owner matters

[Alastor D]

It's been a while since I read book 4. Was Frank being paid, or did he just stay there and keep up the yard because he had no place else to go since everyone in the area thought he had killed the Riddles?

Yes. He was being paid. Quote: "The wealthy owner continued to pay Frank to do the gardening, however." Unquote.

As we don't know exactly when the last change of owner took place, I don't think Lucius is ruled out by his age. But when Voldemort spoke to Lucius in the graveyard it sounded very much like they hadn't been in any contact with each other. Is it likely that Lucius would have been unaware of Voldemort's presense and the murder of Frank if he owned the place?

Anyway I believe there are very good odds for the owner being an unknown and uninteresting muggle. :)

[Rhoryn]

I don't think that one of the DE would own the house, it is a muggle house, how many of them even know if Voldi is a halfblood?
It could be possible that Voldi owns the house, maybe he brought it as a relic of his vengence against his muggle father, and as a possible place to hide, maybe.
Dumbledore is probably not in the running, as he didn't relise Voldi was back, and if he set magical watch on it, it surely would have shown someone was in there, even if it was only Frank

[RemusLupinFan]

I also agree with those who say Lucius Malfoy owned it. He is certainly rich and is one of Voldemort's most trusted followers. Also, considering how many of Voldemort's old school things and dark art objects he has, it stands to reason that Voldemort could have entrusted ownership of the Riddle House to someone he could trust not only to keep his house for him, but to hide his old school things for later use or just for protection as well. As far as we know, no one was aware of the secret room under the Malfoy's drawing room until Draco told Harry and Ron while they were posing as Crabbe and Goyle.

[grrliz]

I was just thinking: if Lucius Malfoy went to all the trouble of getting rid of a bunch of his darkest Dark Artifacts in CoS (because of all the raids), I would think that the Riddle home is amongst the biggest Dark Artifacts one could possess. Since we read that whoever owns the home does so for "tax reasons", obviously someone somewhere knows who owns the house. If it is Malfoy that owns the house, wouldn't that be a really obvious connection to the Dark Lord? Remember, at the start of GoF, Malfoy is still trying to hide his dark tendencies. It wouldn't be too hard to find out the name of the person on the deed, in which case someone might say "Uh, Lucius? You own the Riddle House? Any particular reason why you might want to be keeping that old Dark relic?" "No, no reason at all!" *Malfoy shifts uncomfortably*

I don't know. Unless he owns it under an assumed name, I can't see Lucius owning it. I can see him funding someone else to own it though, it just can't be traced back to him.

[Jaredd]

I also agree with those who say Lucius Malfoy owned it. He is certainly rich and is one of Voldemort's most trusted followers. Also, considering how many of Voldemort's old school things and dark art objects he has, it stands to reason that Voldemort could have entrusted ownership of the Riddle House to someone he could trust not only to keep his house for him, but to hide his old school things for later use or just for protection as well. As far as we know, no one was aware of the secret room under the Malfoy's drawing room until Draco told Harry and Ron while they were posing as Crabbe and Goyle.

You know, I used to be a big supporter of the Lucius theory, but a recent re-read of GoF got me thinking: If Lucius owned the house, why doesn't he know about Voldemort coming back in the beginning of the book? After all if it is his house and Voldemort knows it, why wouldn't Voldemort make contact with him for assistance (like he did with Barty Crouch) instead of waiting to summon him with the others at the end of the book. Just doesn't make much sense to me.

[Danluver182]

I think Voldemort owns it. It was his Dad's house after all so I think he kind of inheireted it. ...which wouldn't really make sense in the long run because his dad abandoned him or something... :thinks hard: I just don't see dumbledore owning it.

Also...it was a rumor in the town that the owner kept it for tax reasons. That doesn't make it true.

[Morgause]

This is something I've always wondered too...although it's probably nobody, it's still fun to speculate! :eyebrows:

I don't think it could be Voldemort. We know he didn't inherit it because there were a few other owners before the current "mysterious wealthy man". Also, whoever does own it was paying Frank to do the gardening - how could Voldemort do this when he can't even feed himself?

For a while I suspected Malfoy too, but now I'm sure it's not him. I know it would appeal to him to own Voldemort's old house, but the truth is that Voldemort never lived there. The death eaters seem to be in serious denial about Voldemorte's half-blood parentage, so I couldn't see Lucius paying for the upkeep of some boring old muggle house that serves as a reminder of the Dark Lord's secret, 'shameful' past. I don't think he'd even know about the house - Voldemort changed his name so that he wouldn't be associated with his muggle father so why would he even tell the death eaters who his father was, let alone where he lived? I know it would be easy enough for Malfoy to find out, but why would he bother? The house would be just about as magical as the Dursleys!

That said, I really don't know who it could be, but perhaps we'll find out later! :huh:

[RemusLupinFan]

Hmm...you've presented some good evidence against Lucius Malfoy being the owner of the Riddle House grrliz; I'm glad you pointed this out. Owning the Riddle House could certainly bring Malfoy much unwanted attention and suspicion, especially once Voldemort had returned. Also, the "tax-reasons" excuse doesn't sound like something Malfoy would use, considering his low opinion of Muggles. Additionally, I don't think Malfoy would ever pay a Muggle to keep up the garden. In Lucius' eyes, this would be stooping pretty low. And if he was to pay a Muggle to keep up the house, I think Lucius would have wanted the house itself, rather than the garden, to be better kept up so that it didn't fall into a state of disrepair.

Here's the exact passage from GoF:The wealthy man who owned the Riddle House these days neither lived there nor put it to any use; they said in the village that he kept it for "tax reasons," though nobody was very clear what these might be. The wealthy owner continued to pay Frank to do the gardening, however.After reading this part, I don't think the owner of the Riddle House is anyone we know. He is probably a wealthy Muggle man from Little Hangleton or a surrounding town, but I agree he still seems a bit shady just the same.

[Gwenog Jones]

I was just thinking: if Lucius Malfoy went to all the trouble of getting rid of a bunch of his darkest Dark Artifacts in CoS (because of all the raids), I would think that the Riddle home is amongst the biggest Dark Artifacts one could possess. Since we read that whoever owns the home does so for "tax reasons", obviously someone somewhere knows who owns the house. If it is Malfoy that owns the house, wouldn't that be a really obvious connection to the Dark Lord? Remember, at the start of GoF, Malfoy is still trying to hide his dark tendencies. It wouldn't be too hard to find out the name of the person on the deed, in which case someone might say "Uh, Lucius? You own the Riddle House? Any particular reason why you might want to be keeping that old Dark relic?" "No, no reason at all!" *Malfoy shifts uncomfortably*
Hmm, I never thought of that before. Good point! That would definitely raise unwanted questions for Malfoy. I think some unknown, wealthy muggle probably owns the house.

[herbertsandbach]

The whole Riddle house chapter in GOF seems strange to me and is written in a very un HP way to me. I recently re-read the chapter and several questions struck me. Why does Voldemort need Nagini milking, he is obviously feeding off the snake to give him strength,power whatever ?? why has the snake got this powerful milk,what is it ?,how does it enpower Voldemort. Maybe I've missed this bit but how and where did Voldemort meet up with Nagini ?he didn't seem to be around until GOF.

Frank Bryce saw a pale faced dark haired teenager just before all 3 riddles were found dead. that description sounds like Harry and could suggest he has gone back in time to kill the riddles. That chapter has posed many weird questions in my mind.

[arshia]

i dont know ...maybe dumbledore!

[Mizaru]

Frank Bryce saw a pale faced dark haired teenager just before all 3 riddles were found dead. that description sounds like Harry and could suggest he has gone back in time to kill the riddles. That chapter has posed many weird questions in my mind.

From what we know of Harry, I don't think he would go back in time to kill people, esp. not AFTER Voldemort was born. (I don't think Harry would really kill anyone at all, but that might just be me).

Doesn't that description also fit a young Tom Riddle/Voldemort, fresh from graduation?

[tarachristwen]

i think the owner of the house could be lord voldermort..he got the money..and he could keep the house for future uses as we have read in book4... :blush:

[Auror77]

At first, I thought it was a simple statement JK made just to explain who the house's current owner was. Now, I'm leaning toward Lucious Malfoy as the owner, as he's wealthy and sneaky, considering the current owner says the reason he owns it is for 'tax reasons'.

[Mizaru]

My problem with believing Malfoy or Voldemort own the house is that they're wealthy *wizards* that despise anything muggle related. Where would they have gotten muggle money? We know Dumbledore/Hogwarts has at least some muggle money, because Hagrid brings some when he picks up Harry from the Dursleys in book 1.

[yrome]

I agree that Voldy probably is a squatter, not owner. Why would he pay Frank Bryce to keep up the house all these years? He's not the nicest guy ever....he killed Frank Bryce in their last meeting! I can't reconcile those two facts. I don't see Lucius as owner either, he's not nice enough to pay Frank for upkeep, he wouldn't care about muggle tax systems, so he probably wouldn't pay the taxes (which would lead to a repossession or something by the government). Could you see lucius sitting there with muggle tax forms? Or better yet, a muggle accountant? No way (I also seriously doubt he took Muggle studies). Who do we know that would be nice enough to pay Frank to tend the yard (even though he's old and has leg problems)? Who do we know who would also be interested in keeping tabs on THAT particular house? The one person that comes to mind is Dd. He says he read about bryce's death in the newspaper. I am sure it is not national news worthy info, probably just a local paper type article (probably headline news in that village!). If Dd has interest in following the news from Riddle's old home town, it is not a far stretch to think that he may have seen the usefulness in owning/knowing what was occuring in the Riddle house. It is, afterall, the place Voldy went to when strong enough and we know Dd knows the power of ancient magic and what Voldy could do to get a body back (it's an ancient piece of magic - the potion he uses, or something like that - don't have the quote on me!). Dd would probably know that Voldy needed something from his father, so best to keep an eye on the place his father was last known to live.

[Mizaru]

Could you see lucius sitting there with muggle tax forms? Or better yet, a muggle accountant?

Random thought on that, not saying it's related, but doesn't Ron have a squib cousin that's an accountant that they don't talk about?

...hrm...maybe he does all the taxing stuff for Dumbledore :eyebrows:

[Lucybird]

I thought maybe Voldy owns it as like a hide-out place... but I don't see why he would propally own it... you'd think he'd just break in... and why does he keep Frank on? Surely it would just be an inconvenience. I thought maybe it might be to make up for what he had done... they do say all people have a good side... even if you don't often see it. Although I can't imagine Voldy feeling merciful with all those people he's killed. The other option I think is Lucius