All about the Unspeakables

[Virtuousdream]

Bode and Croaker are the current one's, and the ones before were working with Voldemort, but I'm very curious about them...

1) What happens when they finish the job, does their memory get blanked so they forget all the things that no one else must know?....

Leading on to...

2) someone surely must know what they do for safety, as the previous unspeakables were with voldemort, who's monitoring them to actually see if they aren't putting the M.O.M in danger in any way and working with him again?

Leading on to....

What on earth is their job and do you think we'll ever find out?! Will they play any major role in the next 3 books?

Any thoughts?

[familiar]

I'd love to know what they do! I think we will find out more about them. I believe the MoM knows what they are doing. Possibly the head of the Unspeakable department reports to Fudge only and no one else. Although, maybe they also report to the Auror Head of Department? Well, there's a question. What is the difference between between an Auror and an Unspeakable? The Aurors are magical law enforcement on a higher level (like the FBI maybe) and are allowed to kill. Maybe the Unspeakables are like the CIA?

[Weatherby]

I think this topic belongs in The Great Hall since it's discussing future plots. :)

Perhaps Aurors catch criminals or DE's specifically while unspeakables perhaps deal with the actual spells themselves?

[Virtuousdream]

lol, I did put it in the great hall, but someone moved it :S

[Girl]

What is it that the Unspeakables do? I'm not quite sure. Also who are they?

[Virtuousdream]

Thats what we don't know lol.

In GoF Authur says "theyre bode and croaker - unspeakables." "what do they do?" "I don't know, no one knows, top secret"

Something along those lines. A ministry department, as others have said, persumably along the the lines of MI5/FBI/CIA.

[FawkesBox]

I think that these people/ this position will definitely factor into future books, however, I simply think that we don't have enough evidence to draw conclusions.

This is a little out there so please think about it before you shoot it down. But there is something to chew on... Croaker's name. I know that there have been several animagi and there has been some debate as to whether there will be anymore. My friends and I think there is something going on with Trevor, Neville's toad. He is always getting away from him when there are interesting things afoot (as in PS/SS when the trio goes to get Quirrell). Perhaps "Croaker" is an animagus, on assignment protecting Neville (As Mrs. Figg does Harry)- or monitoring something.

Again just something to chew on.

[harp230]

Hmmm. Its far-fetched but Iwouldn't totally dismiss it. Neville seems to be not siginificant enough to be followed by the wizard CIA, but maybe his hidden info is just that good. Or even if there is no connection to to Trevor, I bet it would be a good chance to be unregistered... I would beware of any frogs just in case....

[FoolOnTheHill]

I've always been very curious about the Unspeakables. First, they sound kind of funny ("No one knows what they're up to") and for some reason to me they sound slightly crazy. But what on earth do you do in the department of Mysteries- that's what it's called right?

Sound the theory alarm.

Maybe they've been trying to figure out how Harry caused Voldemort to lose his powers and all that jazz. Hmm. Just an idea. Who knows.

[harp230]

Just a theory or conspiricy theory? I can see the unspeakables going either way.

[FawkesBox]

Originally posted by harp230 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=295612#post295612))
Hmmm. Its far-fetched but Iwouldn't totally dismiss it. Neville seems to be not siginificant enough to be followed by the wizard CIA, but maybe his hidden info is just that good. Or even if there is no connection to to Trevor, I bet it would be a good chance to be unregistered... I would beware of any frogs just in case....


I think that his hidden info is that good;) Remember his parents were tortured mad by death eaters with the Cruciatus curse and there is just too much evidence to support that he is under the effect of a memory charm to rule this out

[harp230]

You just never know. I thought that it was a simple explanation from the book that they wanted information to return Voldemort to power. I am sure that there would have to be more to it than that if Neville had a memory charm on hime(and I believe that). Hmmm... this needs more thought. I wonder who else was there at the Longbottom house that night? This could get interesting....

[Weatherby]

They had to deal with the inappropriate experiments with ferrets in CoS.
Arthur had a bad involving a situtation and said that was their department. :)

I suppose if they came across something really mutated and strange they may be disturbed enough to need a memory charm. ;)

[supernatural]

ok, i'm not really sure this belongs here but the croaker being trevor kind of ties in with this theory i have- you are more than welcome to pick this theory apart as i'm sure it's full of holes but here goes-

the Longbottoms came across some real good information on voldemort or had some precious information which the death eaters may have tried (suceeded) to torture out of them-
neville was present and heard this amazing revelation (which ultimately will bring the downfall of voldemort) but was given a memory charm by ministroy officials as a form of sedation before they realised he knew this precious information. Croaker, (probably a registered animagi but omitted from the books because of the top secret nature of the work) is assigned to protect neville and also be on the alert in case of neville breaking out of the memory charm and reme bering this crucial evidence.

feel free to pick this apart.

[rotsiepots]

Heh...great thought, supernatural! :lol:

Although I doubt JKR will play her "unregistered animagi" card again in book five, I like the connection between Croaker and Trevor the Toad just because of the symbolism in the name.

Anyhoo, back on topic, I always assumed that the Department of Mysteries and the Unspeakables were a just thrown into the mix for some humour. Maybe I should have taken Arthur Weasley more seriously when he said, "...the Department of Mysteries, top-secret, no-one knows what they get up to..."?

[paperflowergirl]

Well, I think looking at their names might give some useful information:
Bode: This means ‘to predict, foretell, or be an omen of'.’Â_ Usually this has a pejorative connotation, as an omen of something bad that is going to happen.Â_ Â_Â_

Croaker means someone who croaks.Â_ ‘Croak’ can refer to uttering a low hoarse sound or grumble, or to kill or die.Â_ Croaker can therefore mean either someone who grumbles, dies, or possibly kills.Â_ A mysterious name for someone who works as an Unspeakable for the Department of Mysteries. The ominous names of both Bode and Croaker leads us to believe that the Department of Mysteries, and especially the Unspeakables are up to no good.Â_ We also know that Rookwood, who worked/works in the Ministry of Mysteries was accused by Karkaroff of being a Death Eater spy (the same that Bagman was (unknowingly?) passing information to).Â_
(taken from an article analysing hp names @ www.geocities.com/paperflowergirl9)

We know that Rowling puts a lot into names, and judging by these names, I would not trust any of the Unspeakables.
Considering that Trevor is mentioned way too often for a toad, and is regularly described as lurking around in both suspicious places (girls bathroom) and unsuspicious places, there is defenitely something fishy about him. For all we know he could be Croaker - the names certainly coincide.
Btw: we know that at least Frank Longbottom was an auror, so the death-eaters would not need any aditional motivation for torturing them.

[Pigwidgeon12]

I like the trevor idea and I think he may be a animagi but consider this: Neville would realize that Trevor was missing if Croaker transformered and went to the world cup. Mr. Wealsey pointed him out there, so unless he only became a human for a short period of time so Neville wouldn't notice anything, he can't be Trevor.

But if he is a animagi, Trevor or someone else, he may be registered but Harry and Ron don't know about it. Hermione's the only one who's botherd to look up the list of the registered ones. When Mr.Weasley pointed him out to her at the world cup she just may not have remembered the name from the list. I don't know he may be unregistered.

Either way I definitly think there's something going on with Trevor, if not with Croaker and. :wacky:

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon12 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=296328#post296328))
When Mr.Weasley pointed him out to her at the world cup she just may not have remembered the name from the list.

Maybe you're not far-fetched: Bode and (especially) Croaker seem like nicknames to me. So, Croaker/Trevor could still be one of the "registered" ones.

[Virtuousdream]

hehe and It's back in the great hall!

Hmmm, I think Bode and Croaker sound resonable surname's...."Crouch" sounds similar!

As for the trevor thing, interesting, but I don't think she will use animagi's again, as others have said.

[supernatural]

I dont think it would be too repetitive if she does use an animagi again- i mean, scabbers was hiding out- not spying or looking after anyone.
I think the thought that a wizard can turn into an animal at will could be more important to the plot than just the scabbers issue.

Good point about the Quidditch world cup- but then nev is always losing trevor.

[rotsiepots]

It's been done with both Pettigrew the rat (and the remainder of his Gryffindor posse -- Black the dog and Potter the stag) and Skeeter the beetle. Personally, I don't think JKR would throw another unregistered animagi storyline into the plot, but maybe that's just me.

Perhaps she'll reintroduce it in one of the later books, but it doesn't seem prudent to have three successive books all dealing-out the same plot "twist".

[RogueRiver]

True. Then there's something coming with cats... Presumably the phoenix will be important, too... animals a go-go!

As for croaker / trevor at the match: maybe Neville would have expected his toad was at home? I don't think Hermione would bring Crookshanks to the match, for example.

I love the idea of Neville becoming important, along with his toad... and the "Croaker" link is pretty convincing. Will Croaker decide it's time to break the memory charm on Neville (if that's what's going on)? It wouldn't be easy, but it might be necessary.

What kind of person would turn into a toad? Someone good in different surroundings...? That might work for an Unmentionable.

Can I just say it's weird to point out an Unmentionable if they're like spies? I know undercover spies have to stay unknown to be effective...

another thought: maybe Unmentionables do high-level memory charms? Then they'd be privy to top-secret information without being undercover agents. Once the memory charm has set in, the matter becomes unmentionable. Kinda along the lines of what Supernatural said about Trevor keeping an eye on Neville if he is indeed under a memory charm

[supernatural]

yeah, but how better to go undercover than completely transform yourself- think about it.
ok, so we dont know what the unmentionables exactly do, so they might not be spies- it's just a theory i like.
top secret work is just usually associated with undercover work- maye they're like bodyguards or something.

[supernatural]

oh thats a good thought rr- hgh level memory charms- what if they're the ones who put one on neville- ok so it's not a fact that nev is under one- but i like the theory- it's all tying in nicely

[Mad-I Moody]

Also, the fact that Neville is always "losing" trevor could have something to do with trevor/croaker transforming, couldn't it? I mean, Neville lost Trevor on the train the first year, and then found him (I can't remember where....) in either the castle or on the boat on the way to the castle. Smart toad? Or something more...

[Alastor D]

Hello supernatural! Kindly observe the possibility of editing your previous post instead of doubleposting.

[dorcasderr]

If Trevor is Neville's protection then that could account for a toad being allowed as a pet. People have wondered about this in other threads, so this would be a reasonable explanation.

[Auri DeMeer]

I like the Trevor protecting Neville idea.
Neville said his uncle Algie had bought the toad when Neville got in Hogwarts - so maybe it was because he would be then out of the protection provided at home by the family.

[furryfreakferret]

Wow! Something that got me thinking! I'm bot sure any of this belongs here but you were all discussing it earlier. So to it - Unspeakables, Neville, and Trevor.

First off, who ever said the Unspeakables worked for Voldie? Well, Rookwood did but I don't think that means that the rest of them do. Someone would notice if all the Unspeakables disappeared at once (every time Voldie decided he needed to call all the DEs together), don't you think? I don't know.

I's pretty sure 'toad' was on the list of acceptable pets but you do have to wonder how Ron and Percy before him snuck a rat in?

I love the thought of Croaker being Trevor. I was just thinking last night that there is something behind that toad. I considered animagi as a thought but never connected the Unspeakable to it. It's VERY possible from where I'm standing that Neville would need an FBI wizard with him whether he knows it or not due to his memory charm. I'm a great believer that Neville will be Voldie's downfall and that there's a memory charm which effected his brain placed on him possibly for this reason. But by who I don't know. Snape, Unspeakables who specialize in it, other MoM wizards, the attackers themselves though it seems it would have been easier for them just to have finished him off if they had the chance to cast spells upon him. And it would account for Neville always misplacing him. It's coz he's not there. But you can't Apperate in or out of Hogwarts...? How's he get in and out?? Toads aren't exactly fast animals.

I noticed something else I was reading your theories. Someone mentioned something about interesting ferrets that were in the Department of Mysteries. Same animal Moody turned Malfoy into. Anything there? Maybe ferrets are a favorite of Crouch Jr and he turns everyone to ferrets? Maybe everytime he managed to escape from the confines of his house, being the madman he is, he went around turning everyone he saw to ferrets? Far-fetched but it still seems strange. There might be something about ferrets we should look at.

Wish we knew what they did!? Though I'm pretty positive they'll play a bigger role in upcoming books. JK doesn't mention anything without reason.

[Quasi_EviL]

Wow-what an interesting thread. I love that whole Neville-memory charm-toad angle. Except, I'm wont to agree with the people that say JK won't toss in another animagi, unregistered or not. It already has a significant role in the books, and hasn't played itself out yet. But, there is something off about Trevor. Maybe he's not an animagi. I can't think of anything else, but he could be Neville's protector without being a human.

[FawkesBox]

This is also a good point- but I still wonder about Trevor's supernatural abilities

[supernatural]

well if you think about it- he's the only pet we hear of- outside harrys circle of friends- we dont hear about seamus or deans- or any of the girls apart from hermionie- so that sort of confirms to me that neville isn't all he appears to be.
I also firmly believe that croaker is a nickname- like padfoot and prongs, moony and wormtail- which confirms for me that he has an animagi form of a frog or toad.
i think it all ties in here. besides i love the idea that neville will play a bigger part in the big plot than he has in the smaller plots.

[rotsiepots]

Originally posted by supernatural (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=300590#post300590))
well if you think about it- he's the only pet we hear of- outside harrys circle of friends- we dont hear about seamus or deans- or any of the girls apart from hermionie- so that sort of confirms to me that neville isn't all he appears to be.

What about Binky? Or Lee Jordan's tarantula? I thought Binky was quite an important plot-device in PoA, actually. ;)

[the_unspeakables]

yay! I don't have a theory about the Unspeakables but I think they'll have a part in the next few books because everything that JK Rowling does is for a reason. Or maybe it's just a bit of fun..? But I doubt it!

Yay! My name fits this thread!

[supernatural]

well spotted rotsiepots. i have to admit that i didn't see them!!
- back to the books i go.... :)

[Virtuousdream]

wow, this is the first thread I've made thats been popular...I'm impressed!

Anyways, we could hear more about them in book 5, maybe they will be called in to investigate the possibility Voldie's back?

It still bugs me how they know they can trust them though, to keep secrets!

I'm really not keen on the toad thing, don't forget we still don't know much about the wizarding world in reality, maybe he's something else we don't know yet?

[zoeydsngwrtr]

I totally forgot about the unspeakables, I have no Idea what they are, but I agree, they are most likely some type of law enforcement agency, maybe similar to the FBI or the CIA, the MoM seems to be like the FBI, so maybe the unspeakables are the CIA, FBI and CIA are meant to check up on each other.

I really like the Idea of Trevor being there to protect Neville, there is something about him that makes you think the Unspeakables may need to protect.

I can totally see JKR using the unregistered Animagi card again, or maybe he is registered, and nobody told Neville....

[furryfreakferret]

I don't know about Nev and Trevor but the Unspeakables seem like they probably are like the FBI kind of except you know with wands and other wizard stuff. If only we knew what they WERE up to.... I think they may be kind of there to keep an eye on activities of wizards and witches without being seen. Spies I guess. But will Fudge kick them off if they find out too much? Maybe Dumbledore'll pick them up and they can spy for him. I don't know I'm just rambling really. I just know they'll be back and I don't mean with indescrpit mention.

[Earendil]

"Unspeakable" is an interesting name. It almost has a negative connotation to it. The first time I saw the word in GoF, I thought it sounded as if they were unspeakable because they were in some kind of disgrace. Of course, now I understand why she chose this word, but it still is a strange way of referring to "spies".

[Guardian Angel]

This is what I know about the Unspeakables...

Department of Mysteries
Head: Unknown
Other personnel:
Bode and Croaker: "Unspeakables"
Augustus Rookwood: spied for Voldemort

...but it's not much...

[Ghost]

They do kinda sound like top level spies. I have to agree with Earendil, it strikes me as a sinister name. Usually in the HP world it's the things that are unnamed or the things that aren't spoken of that are the considered to be the worst of the worst. Maybe they have something to do with dark magic?

I love the Trevor/Croaker theory! And if he was an animagi he wouldn't necessarily have to be registered, not with such a secretive postion as he holds. He could have had his name taken off for safety reasons, can't have personal information on guys like that lying around for any old Hogwarts student to look up. :p

[DocHollidaywe]

i think they will be in the next few books

[Green Eyes]

Just a thought, but if Trevor was Croaker, wouldn't he have appeared on the Marauder's Map at some point?

[supernatural]

you could say the same about scabbers though- surely harry would've spotted that one sooner!!!!
I dont think necessarily everyone shown on that map- and it's usually used when nobody is around, as was revealed to me in that thread.

I like to think of the unspeakables as spies- but department of mysteries- what sort of mysteries do you think they deal with???
I'm convinced that croaker is trevor- or at least i like to think so- i guess we'll find out soon!!!!

[harp230]

Well, it is said that the map never lies and everyone is on the map. Who knows there could be a loophole? But, who would look on the map for Neville let alone Trevor?
Hogwarts is a big place, with many people. However the map is set up, it would be hard to notice everyone, wouldn't it?

[furryfreakferret]

It would. But I kind of got the impression it was ONLY people you needed to look out for that it showed. Like Filch, Dumbledore, Mrs. Norris, and anyone else coming your way but what do I know? Where are Fred and George when you need them, eh? Neville has appeared at least once that I can recall but good point who would look for Trev or Scabbers? Maybe it doesn't show nonentities but anyway we know the map WOULD show them as there true selves should anyone bother to search or see.

I was thinking today - what if the Unspeakables are like a step up from Aurors? It's just a thought that occured to me for no apparent reason. or maybe they work in close association with them. How do the Aurors know who are Dark wizards anyway? Do the Unspeakables perhaps tip them off? I would like to know wxactly what kind of mysteries Unspeakables themselves deal with but I get the feeling its Dark Magic for one reason or another. Just a hunch really without proof. Except that no one knows what they get up to.... That would make you think it's awfully important or valuable or dangerous. Three thoughts take your pick.

[harp230]

I think those on the map are those who are moving. At some point, Trevor or anyone else, could be on the map but no one notices them. New thought: Or what if someone (like perhaps Dumbledore if he is in possession of the map now), notices someone, but does not mention it. that would be a good way for someone to figure out what is going on and solving some mystery without giving too many clues. hope that made sence.

My guess would be that unspeakables have a similar job to the aurors, just deal with a lot bigger issues. I don't think that they would deal much with any other departments. Maybe just for gathering some information, but maybe they have other/better ways of getting information.

[Pucko]

let's think...what could wizards possibly need to do that was top-secret so nobody else knew about it??? it probably concerns an area of the magical world that we don't know about yet...
maybe the whole new area of the magical world that harry will find out about in book 5?
we'll have to wait and see...JK sparked our interest with the unspeakables so she wil probably let us know what they do eventually

[Virtuousdream]

What I don't like about the unspeakables is that no one knows what they are doing. Therefore no one knows if they are good or bad, like Rookwood. If thats the case, how did they know about him? If Fudge knows then it's either good or bad news because Fudge can get them to investigate into the Voldemort claims, yet bad because they can spy and keep Dumbledore quiet, hence...(spoiler if you do not want to read) the claim that the authorities at hogwarts are impotent

So kids, we'll just have to wait 5 more days to see if they have a bigger role!

[Barbara Kennedy]

It is a frightening thought that Death Eaters hold such sensitive positions throughout the Ministry of Magic.
They have been getting into place for a possible takeover for many years, like since long before Voldemort's disappearance.

[Virtuousdream]

It is, which I think emphasises the divide in the ministry and magical world. The death eaters will be wanting to play down that voldie's back.

EDIT: yeah, I had a moment of madness and got confused :P

[Barbara Kennedy]

Mmmm, Helhorns, I think you meant Death Eaters, not Dementors?
Or am I confused?

[Virtuousdream]

No, it was me, though I expect the dementors would also try to act normally (not that thats possible) ao no one got suspicious.

[furryfreakferret]

So wait.... what?! Ferret just got very confused! So are we saying that the Death Eaters are going to try and get positions as Unspeakables and that they'll take over inside out?? That's really kind of a scary thought. If they really are like Aurors in the fact they deal with Dark wizards and they ARE Dark wizards then they're probably accusing the wrong people; people Voldie wants out of the way. Did I follow this??

[Barbara Kennedy]

No, there is a possible Death Eater [or 2 or more] already in place in the Ministry of Magic. Rookwood was named in the Pensieve Trials. He was an Unspeakable in the Department of Mysteries. We never learned whether he was removed from that postion or not. There were others revealed to be members of the Ministry in other ways.
See this thread for more information.
Structure of the Ministry of Magic.
http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10135

also this one

Death Eaters in the Ministry of Magic.
http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7375

[Virtuousdream]

Rookwood is no longer an unspeakable, I persume he is in Azkaban. Bode and Croaker are now the unspeakables.

[FawkesBox]

That makes me wonder if besides Rookwood, if any other unspeakables are in Azkaban? Perhaps they have organized some sort of cabal or somesuch there- perhaps they await Voldemort's return and a visit to Azkaban.

[Barbara Kennedy]

Do you mean Death Eater Unspeakables, FawkesBox?

I've been wondering if Rookwood may have been a double agent for the good side that unintentionally got revealed by Karkaroff?

[FawkesBox]

Yes I did and you point about Rookwood as a double agent would also be very interesting...

[Jorrn]

I think it is interesting about the unspeakables and the fact that LV is known as "he who must not be named". I think we got a teaser in GOF about them and will learn more in book 5 about not only them, but also aurors. I wonder if the unspeakables deal with all dark magic related issues or just those related to LV (who has an unspeakable name).

[Phoenix_Fawkes]

I have a question! Does anyone else think that mabye dumbledore might know? He knows alot of the things hes old and wise im sure he knows about hat the unspeakables do! But if there unspeakables mabye thier spys for voldermort since people dont like to speak voldermorts name the spyies are unspeakable! lol i dono just a thought my book 5 anticipation is getting greater only 5 more days! whoa i cant beive it 3 long years!! But anyways im done talking now L8

[furryfreakferret]

Does Dumbledore know about what? Neville and the Memory Charm? Only if Snape mentioned it I don't think he would like to admit he betrayed Dumbledore's trust AGAIN! Though he probably guesses like we do. About Lucius and his "donation" to St. Mungo's being no more than a bribe? Not likely. I think that's just between Malfoy and whoever's taking the money. Neville's wack family? We ALL do! The possibilty there are FURTHER Curses involved here beyond just the one night? Well, Neville would never squeal, so no. What the Unspeakables do? Who knows! I tend to think that maybe only Fudge knows. Maybe not even him! But that would be trusting them way more than they deserve.

Though Jorrn - an excellent point between "the Unspeakables" and "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" I never noticed that. Though I'm sure, knowing JK's word play tendencies, she's saying something. Maybe they're.... I thought I had something. :banghead: But with my modified memory, I'm afraid I've forgotten. :o

To touch, I'm pretty sure Rookwood's in Azkaban. As far as any other ex-Unspeakables???? But there doesn't seem to be too many of them. I have the feeling it's a really difficult job to get. Notice only 2 currents were mentioned and 1 who's been jailed for life so.... And Rookwood as a double-agent.... Dumbeldore would have said something and judging by Snape, we'd have met him. He'd be working in Hogwarts because everywhere else it'd be under a cloud of suspicion. Much like Lupin. Poor Lupin. :no: But I'm drifting away from topic now and so will stop talkin-

:banghead: Sorry guys! About my odd first paragraph: I got my threads mixed-up. Thought I was somewhere else. Just ignore my weirdness. To sumarrize: I don't think Dumbeldore knows. I don't even know if Fudge knows and he's MoM!!

[McKinnon02]

I hadn't noticed the connection between "Unspeakables" and "He-who-must-not-be-named" before, but the two probably are connected somehow. As the Unspeakables are from the department of Mysteries, I would think they'd be kind of like Scully and Moulder- solving mysteries that are unbelievable, even for the wizarding world.

[furryfreakferret]

??????? Barbara, what the-? hehe. I likes that, I will never spoil again if SHE's giving out detentions! :scared: Beware the black pen!

[firebolt2000]

I like that idea, Fawkes Box. It does seem like something that might happen, especially since Neville's parents were so badly tortured by Lestrange, maybe Croaker was sent to protect him.

[Barbara Kennedy]

furryfreakferret, I thought that warning would get attention.
Also, sorry I deleted my *BUMP* there before I noticed your comment.

[furryfreakferret]

It did. tehehee. Can't say no more here unless I want to be soaking my hand in that... stuff.

[Loey]

Have any of the books from 1 to 4 ever mentioned something about the Unspeakables working in the Department of Mysteries? I was reading a fan fiction story the other day and it mentioned them. But the problem was that the story had been written well before book 5. I thought the Unspeakables were known only since book 5 came out. Did I overlook any mention of it in the previous books?

[flash8784]

I believe they are mentioned during GoF at the quidditch match when Mr. Weasley is showing them different people who work at the Ministry. He mentioned Bode and Crocker and said the were Unspeakables.

[Weasley24]

Mr. Weasley talks about Unspeakables in book four I think, when they're at the Quidditch World Cup. I'll go check real quick...

EDIT: Yes, here it is...

"And thats Bode and Croaker... they're Unspeakables..."
"They're what?"
"From the Department of Mysteries, top secret, no idea what they're up to..."

There you go. :)

[SiriusPadfootGrl]

lol...i thought the same thing...that they'd never been mentioned...lol

[jasper]

We won't ever know, will we? It's not known or spoken of.

Douglas Adams had some of these characters and calles them Operatives. They work under high security for the Hitchhikers Guide - at that level of security "you don't even call them people anymore." He told us "They were probably doing stuff that only operatives would do." Which turns out is highly dodgy stuff (tax scams, rackets and graft) behind the cheery, happy-go-lucky front.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

We won't ever know, will we? It's not known or spoken of.

Douglas Adams had some of these characters and calles them Operatives. They work under high security for the Hitchhikers Guide - at that level of security "you don't even call them people anymore." He told us "They were probably doing stuff that only operatives would do." Which turns out os highly dodge stuff (tax scams, rackets and graft) behind the cheery, happy-go-lucky front.

Well, I doubt that!

But anyway, don't they just study each of the mysteries in the DoM? Like when Nick says that he believes the topic of death is studied in the DoM. We don't know HOW they study those topics, but asking how would be like asking how magic works - it's not something that we WON'T learn, it's something that we CAN'T learn.

[MadMagic]

It was my understanding that the unspeakables study the mnysteries of life. Each room in the DoM contained some life mystery, and the unspeakables spend their days trying to unravel those mysteries.

[jasper]

Well, I doubt that!



Ah! a favorite line from Hitchhikers Guide- Zaphod to Arthur about whether they've met!

[Angora]

Angora's lonely theory that no one believes: Tonks is an unspeakable.

I thought they were kind of the special ops of the aurors or something. I definitely think they'll be more important in the next book.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Angora's lonely theory that no one believes: Tonks is an unspeakable.

I thought they were kind of the special ops of the aurors or something. I definitely think they'll be more important in the next book.
Tonks is an unspeakable. Hmmm. I don't know. I see your point as a special ops of the aurors, that's how they seemed to me in Book 4, but in Book 5 I don't think so. It seems to me to be a completely different department - Law Enforcement and Mysteries. I don't think they're connected.

[Alastor D]

I can't see any connection between these two departments either.

[rotsiepots]

Angora's lonely theory that no one believes: Tonks is an unspeakable.

I thought they were kind of the special ops of the aurors or something. I definitely think they'll be more important in the next book.

I don't know about Unspeakable, but Tonks could, quite possibly, be a "Hit Witch".

Her crafty methods of disguise would make her almost impossible to track down after she carried out a covert operation.

Now there's an interesting thought. :D

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Hit Witch. I'm mulling it over. Hit Witch. I like the idea, and for some reason, I do like the phrase, too. ;)

[Angora]

The hit witch sounds like something that would have only seven grams of fat! at Subway. ;) But it's still a nifty idea.

Maybe the special ops involves the department of mysteries somehow and all of the unscrupulous things they do there... maybe not. I still say she's an unspeakable. She was secretly promoted from auror to unspeakable (or, secretly shuffled, if you prefer) because her first assignment is to infiltrate the OotP. I will never let this crackpot theory go. :)

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Wait, so now she's working for the Ministry against the Order? You've lost me, Angora. I don't think it would be a stretch to say that she could end up being an Unspeakable type of person for the Order, but if she worked in the DoM, don't you think people would have found out when she didn't show up to work in the Dept. of Law Enforcement?

[rotsiepots]

The hit witch sounds like something that would have only seven grams of fat! at Subway. ;) But it's still a nifty idea.

Regretfully the idea is not my own. "Hit Wizards" are mentioned in GoF (I think), as a group who went after Sirius. I think they're in the same department as Aurors (that is the Department of Magical Law Enforcement), so the idea isn't entirely far-fetched. :)

[Alastor D]

I seem to remember 'Hit Wizards' mentioned somewhere too. Maybe they are a special branch of aurors. If so tonks may well be one.

[Morgan LeFay]

I heard a theory about Lily being the Unspeakable. I think it's a cool idea!

[Virtuousdream]

She couldn't have been. the Unspeakables are named around the time of the first war because rookwood was one of them.
Also, Tonks can't be an unspeakable as we know her to be an auror so she can't have two jobs and Bode and Croaker were the latest ones until Bode was murdered. Tonks could have been promoted though, you never know! An interesting debate, who will fill the new job.

[Angora]

Okay. Welcome to my pathology.

Everyone who worked at MoM knew that Bode and Croaker were Unspeakables (and presumably that other people were or had been Unspeakables). If the Unspeakables are a division of the Aurors, and the Unspeakables wanted to spy on the OotP, and they had this new Auror who was related to a known member of the order (and either they suspect that Sirius is going to still be in the order, or else they know because their intel is just that good) then why not say to her, "Hey, it's cool that you're a metamorphagous, that would be a useful skill for an Unspeakable to have. Come and join our branch of the Aurors" and then have her do it in secret so that she can infiltrate the OotP and find out who among the Aurors and MoM employees is in the order. See because the Unspeakables don't share all of their information with the rest of MoM, and probably not even Fudge because he's not very smart and they can trick him. They're devious that way, those Unspeakables.

So, to sum up: Tonks is an unspeakable. The Unspeakables know that. The aurors and the MoM don't. The OotP doesn't. She keeps going to her Auror job so that they don't get suspicious, and then she reports to her real job and that's why she's so tired.

I don't know why the unspeakables want to infiltrate the order, but it might have something to do with Harry possessing whatever power is in their mystery room. Or it might be something else.

Or I might be completely insane.

[Virtuousdream]

But she wont have time to do two jobs, besides, we know the two unspeakables. She isn't an unspeakable, in fact I'm positive she's evil but then thats the topic about her being a spy.

Besdies, the Mom have to know who is an unspeakable, they employ them! And the others would have been sacked if your theory was correct.
No way.

[Angora]

What others and why would they be sacked?

If the MoM is still paying Tonks to be an auror, they wouldn't have to know that she's an Unspeakable.

And she's already doing both jobs because the funtion of her job as an unspeakable is to infiltrate the order. So the time that she's doing that is when she's working as an unspeakable - and then however often she reports in or whatever.

And, maybe I'm missing something, but why are you so sure there are only two unspeakables?

[Virtuousdream]

What others and why would they be sacked?

If the MoM is still paying Tonks to be an auror, they wouldn't have to know that she's an Unspeakable.

And she's already doing both jobs because the funtion of her job as an unspeakable is to infiltrate the order. So the time that she's doing that is when she's working as an unspeakable - and then however often she reports in or whatever.

And, maybe I'm missing something, but why are you so sure there are only two unspeakables?

Why only mention two unspeakables all the time if there are more of them? We've been shown there are lots of Aurors and we seem to have been shown how many unspeakables. Why would the unspeakables bother about the order if they look into life, death and everything. If the Mom don't know about the DoM then why would they be upset about the Order?

[sindatur]

I just figured Unspeakables were the folks who work in the DoM. The name Unspeakables is because the work they do uncovering the Mysteries in the DoM is hush-hush. I wouldn't connect the Aurors to the Unspeakables in anyway, other than possibly the Unspeakables with their broader knowledge of the Mysteries of the Universe may advise occasionally

[Angora]

So, Bode and Croaker are unspeakables, but that doesn't mean there aren't more unspeakables than Bode and Croaker. Don't you think their workload would be a little heavy if there were only two (whatever their workload is)? Maybe the rest hardly ever leave the DoM. Maybe there isn't a lot of cross-socialization.

Why would the unspeakables bother about the order if they look into life, death and everything. If the Mom don't know about the DoM then why would they be upset about the Order?

The MoM doesn't like the order because the order at the moment is a bit of a subversive element. And I'm sure the MoM knows about the DoM, I mean, it's in the same building. But maybe the MoM isn't fully briefed on what's going on in the DoM because the unspeakables are hatching something having to do with everything they've discovered during their research.

As for why they would be interested in the order, it could just have to do with Harry. Or how Harry relates to Voldemort. Because I believe the prophecies were also housed in the DoM, weren't they?

[rotsiepots]

The Ministry didn't like the Order in OotP, for obvious reasons; they were attempting to spread a message that the Ministry was trying desperately to discredit. Now that the Ministry and Fudge have admitted that Voldemort is back, I'm sure there will be a relative amount of tolerance and cooperation between the Order and the Ministry.

They have been tracking down Voldemort's movements in the year that the Ministry was trying to deny everything, after all. They've probably got a wealth of knowledge, compared to the Ministry.

[Auri DeMeer]

I think it's important that Bode (an Unspeakable) died in Book 5. He'll have to be replaced - especially if there's not many of them. And also, if hardly no-one knows what they do, how will they know what Bode was doing, to continue with that work? Especially if he and Croaker worked in different projects, I mean.

After having had a DE in the department (Rookwood), I think the precautions within the DoM must be very hard.

[jasper]

I think it's important that Bode (an Unspeakable) died in Book 5. He'll have to be replaced - especially if there's not many of them. And also, if hardly no-one knows what they do, how will they know what Bode was doing, to continue with that work? Especially if he and Croaker worked in different projects, I mean.

After having had a DE in the department (Rookwood), I think the precautions within the DoM must be very hard.

I don't think it's hard to pass on the secret information so work could continue. Bode could have left a Tom Riddle style diary and the diary could be smart enough not to reveal itself to the wrong person.

[Jonny Boy]

Bode is dead. I think that being an unspeakable is a lifetime job. Or maybe it's like MIB.

[hesdead-dealwithit]

Bode is dead. I think that being an unspeakable is a lifetime job.
At heart, it's just another Ministry job, full of just other Ministry employees working in just another Ministr department. It's the CIA and FBI of the Ministry - it's secret but really, it's just another job.

[whizbang121]

Wow! Something that got me thinking! I'm bot sure any of this belongs here but you were all discussing it earlier. So to it - Unspeakables, Neville, and Trevor.

First off, who ever said the Unspeakables worked for Voldie? Well, Rookwood did but I don't think that means that the rest of them do. Someone would notice if all the Unspeakables disappeared at once (every time Voldie decided he needed to call all the DEs together), don't you think? I don't know.

I's pretty sure 'toad' was on the list of acceptable pets but you do have to wonder how Ron and Percy before him snuck a rat in?

I love the thought of Croaker being Trevor. I was just thinking last night that there is something behind that toad. I considered animagi as a thought but never connected the Unspeakable to it. It's VERY possible from where I'm standing that Neville would need an FBI wizard with him whether he knows it or not due to his memory charm. I'm a great believer that Neville will be Voldie's downfall and that there's a memory charm which effected his brain placed on him possibly for this reason. But by who I don't know. Snape, Unspeakables who specialize in it, other MoM wizards, the attackers themselves though it seems it would have been easier for them just to have finished him off if they had the chance to cast spells upon him. And it would account for Neville always misplacing him. It's coz he's not there. But you can't Apperate in or out of Hogwarts...? How's he get in and out?? Toads aren't exactly fast animals.

I noticed something else I was reading your theories. Someone mentioned something about interesting ferrets that were in the Department of Mysteries. Same animal Moody turned Malfoy into. Anything there? Maybe ferrets are a favorite of Crouch Jr and he turns everyone to ferrets? Maybe everytime he managed to escape from the confines of his house, being the madman he is, he went around turning everyone he saw to ferrets? Far-fetched but it still seems strange. There might be something about ferrets we should look at.

Wish we knew what they did!? Though I'm pretty positive they'll play a bigger role in upcoming books. JK doesn't mention anything without reason.

I'm fascinated by the idea that Neville's toad Trevor may be the unspeakable, Croaker. If it's true, what would it tell us about Uncle Algie?

[Godric16]

Whats the deal with the Unspeakables??

Sure their work is hush-hush, but how are they unspeakable. Can they not talk at all and whats there to stop them from Talking. If they can talk, what is there to stop them from Blabbing their secrets about the Department of Mysteries, and don't say a memory charm because then whats the point in them as they would never remember what anything was or what it did.

Who are the Unspeakables?

Bode and Croaker, but aren't Avery and Rookwood Unspeakables as well. If they are unspeakables how is Rookwood able to tell Voldemort about the rules to a prophecy, and why in ST Mungo's does the nurse say Bode is Starting to Mutter (or Something like that). Hes an unspeakable but can speak.

If unspeakables can speak, then why call them Unspeakables?
It gives people the wrong impression of them and can confuse people when they are able to speak.

[niffler12]

Unspeakables always seemed intriguing to me. I wonder if we will meet them, or if Harry will know what there up to. Why did JKR mention them? I think their work will be connected to something concerning him.

[ArtemisiaDax]

Whats the deal with the Unspeakables?
They're Unspeakables because their work is so top-secret that they can't talk about it.

Who are the Unspeakables?
The known ones are Bode, Croaker, and Rookwood (former employee). I don't think Avery was one (or he would have known that the prophecy could only be retrieved by the people who it was made about.) The rest are presumably Ministry of Magic employees.

If unspeakables can speak, then why call them Unspeakables?
They can obviously speak. If they couldn't speak, then how would anyone know that Bode had lost his ability to speak? (See the chapter in St. Mungo's in OotP - he was regaining the ability, but not speaking in a recognizable language.) The reason why they're named Unspeakables is because the work is so important and top-secret that it's classified - they do unspeakable things, things that literally cannot be spoken of.

Perhaps the Unspeakables' work could be protected by a Fidelius Charm. That would make security breaches a lot less common.

[LexiBlack]

I thought that there were more than 2 unspeakables. I don't know why, but the job just seems very demanding, more demanding than what two wizards could deal with by themselves. So, I would asume that they all keep monitor of what is going on in their department. (I hope that they work in the DOM!!)
I definetly think that we will find out what they do and more about them in general. I believe that James and Lily were unspeakables, so I hope when we find out more about Lily we find out more about the unspeakables. Unspeakables have been mentioned for a reason. I don't think JKR would just throw them in the story and never use them. So, they have to be involved somehow in the next two books since we haven't really learnt much about them so far.

[ArtemisiaDax]

LexiBlack,
I believe we can say without a doubt that there are more than two Unspeakables. (It's never explicitly stated, but certainly implied - look at the size of the room with the veil in it, and Nearly Headless Nick says "...where learned wizards study the mysteries of death," implying at the very least more than one wizard in the Death department. I think that there are probably dozens of Unspeakables, several for every department. It's just that we only know the names of three (and of those three, one is an ex-Unspeakable and Death Eater and another is dead.)

[mareesa]

Although the idea of Croaker as Trevor is a riot, I don't imagine Trevor has much time to go hopping of to the DoM as would be necessary to maintain Croaker's work load.

But as to Croaker being of more importance in later books, I believe that highly probable. First, he must be on the DE's radar, as he was apparently friends with Bode. They had gone to the Quidditch World Cup together afterall. Poor Croaker, he lost his friend. Together the names bode and croaker, seemed to me kind of like a phrase: Bode didn't bode well in book Five and he croaked!

The name Croaker brings up some interesting descriptive ideas. Croak can imply how he talks. Or to think of it as an action, to croak means to die or to snuff it. It could be he is one of those in charge of the Death Room. It could be that he will be the Order's contact, or Harry's new aquaintaince in book six. Hmmm.....

[legstump]

Whats the deal with the Unspeakables??

Sure their work is hush-hush, but how are they unspeakable. Can they not talk at all and whats there to stop them from Talking. If they can talk, what is there to stop them from Blabbing their secrets about the Department of Mysteries, and don't say a memory charm because then whats the point in them as they would never remember what anything was or what it did.


You reminded me of something I saw a while ago, when we visited some friends in Washington. There happened to also be there two guys, who had never meet each other before, who obviously both worked in the intelligence community. It was pretty mazing to watch how these two pro's spoke to everyone about everything, the other peoples jobs, lives, dreams, etc., but gave away not even the slightness bit of information about for whom and where they worked. (Even though we knew that one being a family friend happened to work for the presidents security service.and gave us aguided tour of the White house.)


So true pros don't need no spells, they know how to keep their mouths shut.

[Picko]

Whats the deal with the Unspeakables??

Sure their work is hush-hush, but how are they unspeakable. Can they not talk at all and whats there to stop them from Talking. If they can talk, what is there to stop them from Blabbing their secrets about the Department of Mysteries, and don't say a memory charm because then whats the point in them as they would never remember what anything was or what it did.

There's bound to be fairly strict contracts guarding what they can and cannot talk about without being heavily fined and/or imprisoned. I can't confirm this obviously but it's both logical and reasonable.

[mareesa]

There's bound to be fairly strict contracts guarding what they can and cannot talk about without being heavily fined and/or imprisoned. I can't confirm this obviously but it's both logical and reasonable.

Could be that all the "secretive" work they do qualifies for them being secret keepers for the ministry. So, it is possible that they couldn't spill the beans no matter how hard they'd want to. Bode couldn't even tell under the imperious curse. Instead he was imperio'd to physically pick up the prophesy, which caused his madness. Seems like if he could speak about it, they'd have used veritaserum.

[twiggles]

I go with the theory that unspeakables are a secret government organization much like 007 or the CIA. They may be given orders by various people or departments but are covert and no one in power wants to take responsiblity for them because if things go wrong, they don't want to be blamed. We would like to believe that the Dept. of Mysteries is a place of scientific research to better the wizarding race but it is more likely that it finds ways to increase power and weapons.