The Jinxed DADA Position

[Quasi_EviL]

I don't think this subject already has a thread. Forgive me if it does!

I wonder if there's any particular reason why the Defence Against the Dark Arts teaching position is jinxed. Will it crop up in later books, or is it just another Hogwarts peculiarity? Most things in the series are mentioned for a reason.

[NorthStar]

I'm not sure yet if it really is jinxed, or it just seems to be. Quirrell died, Lockhart was just useless, Lupin was forced to resign (in his own eyes) because of what he was and Moody - well, if it had been the real Moody he's only have stayed for a year anyway, special favour to Dumbledore. That would have been arranged before Crouch came along.

[Girl]

I think the jinxed thing is just a rumour started by students to explaine why there has been so many DADA teachers.

[roz]

jinx is a word that you should be careful with in the wizarding world. From my understanding a jinx is similar to a curse and is something that is actually cast.

It is a thought though. Maybe Snape jinxed the position because he didn't want anyone else to get the job.

Roz.

[jordmundt6]

No, it doesn't appear to be actually jinxed. Quirrell wasn't new when he was killed and Snape's big mouth is the only thing that kept Lupin from staying.

[Girl]

The DADA job is only thoght to be jinxed because it was the job wth the most new teachers.

[aragog]

Plus it's a great way for JKR to introduce new characters. Just make them the DADA teacher!

[Quasi_EviL]

Originally posted by jordmundt6 (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=296341#post296341))
No, it doesn't appear to be actually jinxed. Quirrell wasn't new when he was killed and Snape's big mouth is the only thing that kept Lupin from staying.


Are you sure that Quirrell wasn't new? I always assumed he was...

just for clarification sake, I didn't mean actually "jinxed" when I said it...I was more wondering if something had happened to a past DADA teacher for it to be such a hard job to keep

[Barbara Kennedy]

This is gone into a lot in the thread about Snape and whether he wants the DADA position.

[MadMagic]

I don't know that it is jinxed. I think it is kind of a running joke in the books though. I don't see there ever being a DADA teacher for more than one year while Harry is at Hogwarts. I don't think it is jinxed though.

And as Aragog said, it is an excellent way for JK to introduce us to more teachers. I personally enjoy getting a new DADA teacher every year.

[Auri DeMeer]

I think Harry would make an excellent definite DADA teacher...:)

[Puffskein]

Was Quirrell new? The fact that he took a year out of work to get experience suggests that he wasn't, but Hagrid(?) says it's a while since a DADA teacher has lasted a long time. Then again, most Hogwarts teachers seem to last years and years (Dumbledore, McGonagall, Flitwick) so Hagrid was probably speaking in relative terms and Quirrell had been teaching for a few years.

[jordmundt6]

But consider that a long time in a wizard's estimation would be multiple decades (like Binns) whose probably been there more than a century, or Kettleburn before he quit, or Dumbledore (who was there for decades as the Transfiguration Teacher before beginning his current thirty-odd year stint as Headmaster). Even Snape hasn't been there "long." And if Harry survives and isn't a recluse, he'd make an excellent and cool DADA instructor or an excellent candidate to replace Albus Dumbledore if Dumbledore dies before the end of the struggle. But there could be some political pressure on him to rebuild Wizard Britain and act as an ambassador to Europe (this is all assuming he survives and doesn't make himself a pariah through what he has to do to defeat or contain Voldemort).

[Quasi_EviL]

that's really interesting...but he'll still be quite young by the end of the series. There's no doubt that he could teach DADA and would do a good job of it, but he might not have enough life experience to be hired.

[Lestrange]

Originally posted by MadMagic (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=296436#post296436))
I don't know that it is jinxed. I think it is kind of a running joke in the books though. I don't see there ever being a DADA teacher for more than one year while Harry is at Hogwarts. I don't think it is jinxed though.



I also though that the "Defense Against the Dark Arts is jinxed" rumour to just be a joke among everyone...kinda like the cenataur liason office in the Ministry of Magic. :p

[Girl]

The DADA job needs someone who has studied the dark arts and also has experience. I don't think that Harry could make that great a DADA teacher he would be quite youg 18 or 19 the most by the end of the books.

[jordmundt6]

At 18 he will have studied more than he wants to of this and the argument can easily be made that he would have more experience with it than any wizard living (if Dumbledore is not alive at the end of book 7).

[Barbara Kennedy]

jordmundt6, you mentioned Kettleburn in an earlier post. I know I should know who that is but for the life of me I can't remember. I assume he was a professor, but of what?

[Mayerlin]

If I remember well, Mr Kettleburn taught Care for Magical Creatures. When he retired, Hagrid replaced him.

[imperator]

NO I don't believe the DADA position is jinxed, I do however believe that men who have served as DADA teachers in Hogwarts have had other agendas of their own.

Year I - Quirrel was a secret follower of Voldemort and if Harry hadn't killed him Snape would have anyway - 'You DON'T want ME as YOUR ENEMY, Quirrel'.

Year II - Lockhart's mind IMO was never in DADA teaching; he was always so busy pampering himself and boasting about his achievements. Not to mention he was the only person for the job...funny thing really. You'd expect someone who knows a lot about fighting the dark arts (as Lockhart supposedly was) to actually work actively (as Aurors) to eradicate the DA's.

Year III - Lupin had been Snape's enemy at school and one that Snape has targeted for the entirety of his Hogwarts career. Sooner or later Snape was always bound to discredit opponents of his (as of trying to get James expelled) and in not keeping Lupin's secret.

Year IV - Barty Crouch Jnr. - Probably the most capable and cunning DADA teacher so far, BCJnr unfortunately was also a secret Voldemort supporter. He ran his own risk really, trying to get a job (or at least to spy) on a school so totally opposed to the Dark Arts (even Snape has come to despise the Death Eaters) led by Dumbledore himself - a close associate of the paranoic Cornelius Fudge.

[EvilRaven]

Could it just be jinxed because Harry started school. *ponders*

[smartypants]

Sure, Harry might become the DADA teacher. But already at the end of book 7? Hardly. The guy is the best Seeker Great Britain + Ireland has produced in many years. He totally loves Quiddich, the most reasonable thing for him to do is to become a pro (something you obviously can be, remember Ludo Bagman).

Besides, he doesn't have a wide enough experience. He will be good at fighting wizards, but the DADA is more than that. It's wherewolves, and pixies, and all sorts of things.

[Girl]

I agree with you smartypants.
Harry has no experience in fighting wherewolves, pixies, vampires and all the other dark things. The only time he faught pixies was in DADA class but that wwon't be enough to qualify him as an expert. He did fight a troll once but and can fight dark wizards but will that make him a good DADA teacher?
It takes more then just being able to fight a few dark things you have to be able to know and identify allthe dark creatures. You will also need to know how to defeat them. So far Harry seems to only be good at defeating dark wizards.
The DADA teachers all so far seem to have had some type of field experience.
Quirrel took a year off to do field work and build his experience.
Lockheart was surpose to have been every good at defeating dark creatures.
Lupin was a werewolf but I'm sure he had experience too.
Mad Eye was a Aurar and had alot of experience with the dark art.

Besides Harry's passion seems to be in Quiddich. He's a great Seeker and might have a good chance at going pro. We know that Wood is a reserve for a Quiddich team (can't remember which one). I feel that Harry's furture lies in Quiddich and not as the DADA teacher.

[Potter_fan]

I wonder if The new DADA teacher will last longer or if the tradition will continue.

[Girl]

i think that the DADA teacher will only last a year. The DADA job is used by JK to introduce new people to the story.

[Potter_fan]

I don't know. All the others HAD a reason to leave. What more can she come up with?

[Sinistra]

During the years of Voldemort's reign being a DADA teacher might have been downright dangerous. And the best people wouldn't be teaching, they would be out there fighting Voldemort. Once Voldemort was defeated, people able to teach DADA might have been a dime a dozen, if they survived. Now those people may be comfortably retired or disabled (look at poor Moody) and there hasn't been a big calling for DADA lately, having few real horrible Dark Wizards. The war with Voldemort may have taken a toll of the best and brightest, leaving only the "Lockhearts" to dominate the field. Quirrel, Lockheart and Lupin were all young. Moody was older, a "veteran" but agreed to teach only the one year.

Maybe all the older people are weary of it all, and only younger people, with little experience are willing to take the position. Harry may end up being the best candidate for the job, after he graduates, if things keep progressing and he survives and is able to defeat Voldemort.

Also, maybe Voldemort's reign of terror caused the DADA curriculum to be changed, and it needs an overhaul to be more resonable for a stable peaceful wizarding world.

[jordmundt6]

Sinistra--I think you might be right. Those who are veterans who can still fight are out there rounding the last of them up and would consider it almost fruitless to be teaching and those who are retired are either sick of it or have too much battle fatigue not to be dangerous in the classroom.

[Quasi_EviL]

Originally posted by Sinistra (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=297671#post297671))
Harry may end up being the best candidate for the job, after he graduates, if things keep progressing and he survives and is able to defeat Voldemort.


That's very true, but I agree more with him going in the Quidditch direction. Harry hasn't really expressed any interest in becoming a teacher.

[Weatherby]

It could actually be jinxed. Nothing is impossible in the magical world.
Perhaps someone was fired and decided to curse the job.
Maybe it was Snape. I don't really think he would do that but he does have problems letting old grudges go.

[GrangerGal]

Maybe it was jinxed b/c of the Dark Years. Voldemort wouldnt want people to learn about how to defeat him so he made it impossible to keep the job. The thing about rumors and jokes is that they are always started from some shread of truth...

[zoeydsngwrtr]

It is most likely jinxed because those who know much about the dark arts tend to have something against Hogwarts...Voldemorts worst enemy...Dumbledoor, or they are people who do not want to be looked upon as people who know much about the dark arts, too much rocky history there. Many of the people who were good and knew much now have important positions, are still busy pursuing Voldemort and his followers, or are dead or insane like the Longbottoms.

[DocHollidaywe]

I think it is a way for new characters to be introduced ... I mean Harry has probably learned the most from these teachers
Quierrel - Assumptions can and sometimes are wrong
Lockhart - Cant judge a book by its cover
Lupin - Harry learned so much from this man (not just DADA stuff) friends can forgive all ... not to mention all he learned of his family
Moody - CONSTANT VIGALENCE (sp?)

[EvilRaven]

Originally posted by smartypants (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=297629#post297629))


Besides, he doesn't have a wide enough experience. He will be good at fighting wizards, but the DADA is more than that. It's wherewolves, and pixies, and all sorts of things.


He could be an Auror. But He likes DADA and everything thing about it and its the only subeject that he's really good at.
My bet is that he'll either be:

Professional Quidditch seeker
DADA teacher
Auror
Or Dead.

[Sinistra]

Exactly. EvilRaven. There is more to DADA than evil wizards, and that's probably why the curriculum needs to be reworked. Moody went out of the guidelines in GoF, and from what was said it seems the MoM has a hand in designing the curriculum.

Hmmmmmm. If the MoM has a say in what is taught and when, maybe someone there who is secretly a Voldemort supporter could be influencing the curriculum to make it almost impossible for anyone to reasonably teach DADA thereby causing the frequent turnaround. Or deliberately "blunting" the curriculum and so any sensible person would resign in disgust.

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by smartypants (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=297629#post297629))
He [Harry] totally loves Quiddich, the most reasonable thing for him to do is to become a pro (something you obviously can be, remember Ludo Bagman).

I remember a closer example - Krum: he's a pro and still in school years. Harry may be a good Quidditch player but he's got a great potential to fight the Dark Arts and that talent must not be wasted.

He'll be 17/18 by the end of the series but I'm sure in the last three books he'll have to confront all sort of Dark creatures (vampires, werewolves, and those things). He's a very gifted DADA student, remember his Patronus against the dementors.

And anyway JR will tell us about Harry until he's 21/22, so he'll have had time to gather some more experience to get the post.

That is, if he survives, and doesn't lose all his wizarding powers along the way.... :)

[Girl]

But JK said that at the end of the books one student would become a teacher but not Harry, Ron, or Hermione.
My guess is that Harry will become a Quidditch player, it's what he loves the most.

He might be a good DADA student but is that enough to make him a good teacher. You have to love what you do for it to be done right and with most effect.

[Auri DeMeer]

Originally posted by Girl (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=299431#post299431))
But JK said that at the end of the books one student would become a teacher but not Harry, Ron, or Hermione.

I thought it was "not the one we're expecting" or something like this. I never heard "none of the trio" will be a teacher.

[Girl]

I read somwhere that it was not to be one of them.

[zoeydsngwrtr]

I agree that we need a new character, but I think that we are getting one in the return of Arabella Fig, we don't really know much about her as is, but supposedly we will learn more.
As for the student who becomes a teacher, I would definatly say it will be Neville, If I were to choose from the Current Characters, mabye he will learn to come to terms with what happened to his parents, and loose his clutziness. I believe that kid has potential.

[Girl]

I agree with you. I always saw Neville as becoming a teacher. He won't become the DADA teacher. But he stands a good chance of turning into a good teacher.

[Auri DeMeer]

Ok, I vote for Neville as Herbology teacher. Do you think someone will be at last a "definite" DADA teacher? Who?
Maybe Lupin if a permanent cure is found and if he survives. JR said she liked Lupin so she may treat him nicely after all.:)

[zoeydsngwrtr]

I think the new DADA teacher will be Arabella Figg, and I tend to wonder if she is related to DD somehow

[jordmundt6]

Arabella could be a good candidate and the relationship with Dumbledore is an interesting possibility. But, she doesn't fit the description of the DADA teacher we have access to.

[Quasi_EviL]

Well, we only have a limited description of both the new DADA teacher and Arabella Figg. We only know that the new teacher has a personality like "poisoned honey", and about Arabella Figg, we only know that she's the same person as Mrs Figg, who is a neighbour of Harry's and likes cats.
She might be related to Dumbledore - it's a really interesting theory - but there's no way we could really back that up right now...

[FawkesBox]

quick note: Neville for Herbology prof (what will happen to Prof Sprout?)
Nevertheless, if the DADA position was truly jinxed, wouldn't a competent DADA prof be able to break the jinx?

[jordmundt6]

This appears to be a different sort of jinx. The moment you accept the job you are under it and you can't separate yourself from it, so the jinx binds you and you leave (if there really is a jinx).

[Prof.Aze]

There' no such thing as a jinxed subject in Hogwarts that's for sure. The student just started this as to figureout why they have o many DADA teacher. One for each year. Well don't believe the jinx thing ok? :)

If it is true that DADA i really jinx maybe Snape did it because everyone knows that he want to get that position. :evil: It's just a joke ok. No turth about it. hehe... I didn't mean to offend anyone epecially to SAnpe fans out there. Sorry for the accuations. :o

[EvilRaven]

Originally posted by Girl (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=299431#post299431))
But JK said that at the end of the books one student would become a teacher but not Harry, Ron, or Hermione.
My guess is that Harry will become a Quidditch player, it's what he loves the most.



*ponders wonder if the teacher will be Neville.*

[EvilRaven]

Originally posted by Sinistra (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=299351#post299351))
Exactly. EvilRaven. There is more to DADA than evil wizards, and that's probably why the curriculum needs to be reworked. Moody went out of the guidelines in GoF, and from what was said it seems the MoM has a hand in designing the curriculum.

Hmmmmmm. If the MoM has a say in what is taught and when, maybe someone there who is secretly a Voldemort supporter could be influencing the curriculum to make it almost impossible for anyone to reasonably teach DADA thereby causing the frequent turnaround. Or deliberately "blunting" the curriculum and so any sensible person would resign in disgust.


I think it would be interesting to find out Moody's tactics behind teahing them the unforgivable curses. I personally think it was a ploy to se how powerfull Harry would be.

[Quasi_EviL]

Originally posted by EvilRaven (original post (http://www.cosforums.com/a/showthread.php?postid=302187#post302187))
I think it would be interesting to find out Moody's tactics behind teahing them the unforgivable curses. I personally think it was a ploy to se how powerfull Harry would be.


Didn't Moody say at the beginning of the year that he wanted to prepare them for the worst they can expect? I think he did anyway...

About Neville becoming a teacher, everyone seems to immediately guess that it'll be him. Who else is there besides him?

[jordmundt6]

Parvati or Lavender to take over for the glitttering insectoid--ahem, I mean Professor Trelawney. Other than that, there's really nobody else in Harry's year who shows a whole lot of promise if you throw away Neville.

[Catgirl]

I mentioned this theory breifly in another thread a while ago, but I thought I'd make a thread about it so I could see what everyone else thought. I don't have much evidence to back it up. I'm just basically filling in the blanks.

Everyone believes the DADA job is cursed. I believe that this is actuallly the case and I have a theory about what happened.

After James and Snape left school they both applied for the job of Defense Against the Dark Arts teacher. Dumbledore chose James for the job, probably because he was a member of the Order and he trusted him. This is the one thing that pushed Snape over the edge and turned him to the dark side. He knew that he was the best at DADA and deserved the job. He was so furious that he put a curse on Dumbledore so that he would not be able to keep anyone in that job untill he gave it to him. After this he becomes a Death Eater. Nobody really takes the curse seriously untill Voldermort comes after James and forces him into hiding. Remember Harry was born in July. They would probably have gone into hiding just after he was born, which would have ment that James had exactly a year there just like the other DADA teachers. After this someone else has to take over from him and only lasts a year and so on. Snape decides to come back to the light side of the force and does something to proove that he's a good guy now. (I belive that he may have been sent to kill Harry and didn't because of his life-debt with James.) Dumbledore trusts Snape, but he doesn't want to give him the DADA job, because he is the one who cursed it and he doesn't want people to get thier own way by cursing people. Instead he gives him the Potions job, because he is a good teacher. (that point is debateable)

If this is the case then I believe the curse could be broken one of three ways.
1. Dumbledore gives in and hires Snape. I don't think he will do that though.
2. Dumbledore dies. The curse was placed on him, not the school, so it no longer stands.
3. Harry gets given the DADA job. As his father was the subject of the original spell, this somehow breaks it.

Anyway that's my theory. What do you think?

[rwc]

i can see where you are coming from catgirl but there is one problem. where is your evidence that james ever had the DADA job. your whole theory is pure speculation. anyway, curse breaker number 3 will never happen, harry wants to be an auror, not a teacher.

if you had some plausible evidence i might have believed it but as it is it seems too far-fetched with too many blanks.

but what do i know, im new here.

[Puffskein]

That's a very creative theory and I can't disprove it. One tiny niggle I have is that Quirrell probably had the job for more than one year.

I think the "curse" is more a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy. People think there's a jinx on the DADA job, so they don't want to apply and Dumbledore ends up having to hire someone who's either incompetent or has to leave for other reasons.

[ravenfeather]

well, we don't really know how long quirrel was teaching. at some point, he was journeying around learing about dark arts, ending in albania (poor schmuck). he couldn't very well have been teaching while he was fleeing from every dark creature in europe in its turn. however, no teacher has been mentioned as quirrel's academic forebear. it seems like the 'curse' is fairly recent. if the post had been filled yearly, they wouldn't start the roll call at quirrell, which they all do, even the older students (fred, george, and, i think, percy). nor does hagrid mention to harry in his introduction of quirrell at the leaky cauldron that quirrell is the NEW DADA teacher. he seems to know him and have worked with him for a while. i like the idea of the DADA post voodoo, but it seems to me that it's a strange continuing string of events rather than a formal curse. plus, i'm pretty sure that dumbledore would either know about or be able to repel some puny snape-inflicted curse. he is the most powerful wizard in the world. i'm very interested in who we'll be seeing in that post in the coming year (s). i'm willing to believe it will be snape. maybe to his detriment!

[Nadia]

I don't think that the position is jinxed, I just think that it's an excuse for JKR to introduce new characters and...well it's working so far.

Also my views on Quirrell: I think he *might* have been the DADA teacher, but then he left to get some 'first hand' experience for one year which would have meant that their would be a replacement for that one year. That would mean that...quirrell wasn't new...I think. Confusing the DADA position stuff isn't it? Umm...who knows. Knowing JKR there may as well be a jinx but...I hope not.

[Picko]

I think it's merely a coincidence. The jinxed part comes because so many of the people in the HP Universe are supersticious, I mean they are afraid to say people's names and what not so it's no surprise that some might think a position is jinxed.

[Loz]

One thing that has to be realised is that some repitition is used for comic/dramatic relief. The open DADA position is there so that we can have a rotating appearance of new adult characters. Think about it, we're in a limited environment, teachers have set jobs, the only new students are first years. There needs to be renewal. And why DADA? It is a prominent subject, it is one the main character is interested in, and there are many reasons why the teachers could be bumped off year after year.

[Picko]

Well it's possible that the position only changes every year so we can be suspicious that a new character is in some way evil or has a very important part to play.

[Cat]

I don't think the job is literally cursed, but I'd love the irony if it is.

I think it seems jinxed because it's the most dangerous job at an already fairly dangerous school that teaches magic. DATDA teachers aren't just teachers, they're like watchmen and women of the castle, too. They're always there whenever there's a crisis (granted, in most cases that's been because they caused it).

I don't think it's simply a plot device, but it doubles up as one. She doesn't have to make so many new characters to make the story work, but she does because what she's written requires it. Umbridge isn't an important figure in the Voldemort vs. Harry story (well, she might turn out to be), but she was neccessary because J. K. Rowling wrote herself into that - a new DATDA teacher every year, so it is written, so it must be done.

ravenfeather, but whoever it was that said it said the job was purportedly jinxed while Quirrel was still a teacher. So this alleged jinx would have to have been going since before the series started. Quirrel just managed to dodge it's wrath for a few years :D

[Loz]

Hmm, good points Cat. Why don't we learn more about Sinistra or some other teacher for instance? Because DADA is always in the spotlight and holds our attention.

Why jinx a job? What would be the purpose?

[Picko]

What would be the purpose?

I don't know but someone will probably relate it to the heir of Gryffindor :p

[Loz]

The Heir of Gryffindor jinxed the DADA job? Or they were the recipient of the jinx themselves?

[Picko]

I don't know how it would work Loz but every theory relates to the Heir of Gryffindor ... or so I hear :p

[Loz]

Oh yes, of course. Secretly I think Harry is Dumbledore, the Heir of Gryffindor and the person who Jinxed the DADA position.

[Picko]

Your proof is undeniable. I bow down to your greatness as a HP theorist.

[Hood Teacher]

I think the DADA is jinxed but one day maybe after Harrys final year they would finnally be a teacher who would stay for most of the year i have my quesses but i'm not telling

[ginnybatbogeysyou]

I think the DADA-teacher is the running 'joke' of the series, if you can put it like that.
Every year they have to cope with another teacher, sometimes a nice one, most times someone horrible.

I don't think it's a cursed job. How on earth can you jinx a job?
Hang on, maybe they jinx the chair of the DADA-teacher and the jinx gets transferred to him/her. ;)

[Nephel]

I think the purpose of curin' the DATDA post is so that it disrupts learning and all of Hogwarts wizards will not know much about DATDA as their lessons are always disrupted. This way, students at Hogwarts will b easier to kill. "Better expelled than sitting in school with out a clue."

[Ilith]

I've just moved this from Divination. I think no one quoted this passage:

(p. 126 of CoS, British edition)
Harry, Ron and Hermione visiting Hagrid; talking about Lockhart
'He was the on'y man for the job,' said Hagrid.......... 'An' I mean the on'y one. Gettin' very difficult ter find anyone fer the Dark Arts job. People aren't too keen ter take it on, see. They're startin' ter think it's jinxed. No one's lasted long fer a while now...........

It sounds to me that Quirrell and Lockhart (and Lupin, Moody and Umbridge) weren't the only DADA teachers who 'hadn't lasted long'. So who else, before Quirrell, 'didn't last long'?

Some people suggested James (or Snape?), I think. Anyone else? Somebody unimportant? Do you think we'll learn about them or meet them?